Generation Ships

[alexvss]

I'm looking for the best fiction and non-fiction books about generation ships and long-term enclosed habitats. On the fiction side, I'm especially interested in harder science fiction, with good engineering descriptions. Have you read a book about generation ships or long-term enclosed environments you liked?

Many people have already suggested a lot of fiction in prose, so let me suggest something I consider myself an expert: the HBO Max animated series Scavengers Reign is one of the best things that came out in 2023, overall, and it features generation ships.

 

[BAYLOR]

Thanks, I listened to the Audible sample of Aurora & they probably should choose something else to introduce this book. I did read Robinson's Martian trilogy and his "Ministry for the Future". I will probably try to get through Aurora too - because the story line seems right on target. Robinson doesn't move his narratives as fast as I would like. The pace is a lot more leisurely than say Andy Weir or the James S.A. Corey duo. I will check out Issac Arthur ! (As soon as I get some sleep.)

Thanks much! Hope things are well in Edinburgh.

Non Stop by Brian Aldiss
The Exiles Trilogy by Ben Bova

 

[Orcadian]

Edinburgh seems to have escaped most of the worst winter weather so far, so fingers crossed.

I would put this differently! The Central Belt of Scotland has had a grey, wet, mild, dismal winter. No winter at all, really - just an extended sort of autumn but with lower light levels. Now, with T~10-15C, it feels like a odd, gloomy kind of spring, I love seasonality and feel cheated!

 

[feralreason]

I didn't mean that they are inaccurate, but they really are scant on useful details about long term living spaces.

It would be interesting to read an SF novel which is the habitat version of Fountain of Paradise. The actual engineering or maintenance under normal circumstances, rather than what happens when there is a war or an impact.


Fun fact: The very first SF book I ever read was a children's novel when I was seven, featuring a rotating generation ship that was breaking down mid voyage. So it has always been a concept I have felt familiar with. But it also lacked any details about what was going on.

Yeah - I always wanted more of that kind of detail too. The "Martian" and the Expanse novels whet my appetite for scenes like that and, in the spirit of the STEM push, I thought the emerging generation might like to know what it might be like to be an Engineer solving problems in an environment where people's survival (rather than just their jobs) depend on some tech innovation. I think Heinlein had some of this kind of detail in some of his YA novels / short stories. Apollo 13's efforts to cobble together a CO2 scrubber for the Lunar Landing Module certainly held everyone's attention in 1970, got a long scene in the TV movie that came out afterward & a bit shorter one in the Tom Hanks movie. So perhaps there is an untapped market...

 

[feralreason]

Yes he's a bit of a marmite author. It's been almost 30 years since I've read the Mars trilogy, which I remember liking, when I was but a fresh faced PhD student. Hence it being a heavy on science exposition rather than totally engrossing story didn't bother me too much. Today, my tastes have changed, although I found myself recently engrossed in another exposition heavy, heavily researching author, Neal Stephenson. A part of me is always going to be an idea-hungry scientist, I suppose.

But I believe he spent time talking to working scientists at NASA when writing the book, so the tech and science ideas in the book would seem to fit your remit!

Edinburgh seems to have escaped most of the worst winter weather so far, so fingers crossed.

Cheers.

"Marmite" - I like that. Had to look it up. I'm a off/on fan of Stephenson's. Loved Cryptonomicon, hated The Diamond Age, liked Snow Crash, loved the Barogue Cycle (I'm a history fan), loved the first 2 books of Seveneves, lukewarm on book 3.

We agree on exposition. Was surprised (and disappointed) in how much there was in the "Three Body Problem". And, although I know C. J. Cherryh has her fans, the beginning of "Downbelow Station" was coma-inducing. What I like about Heinlein, Andy Weir and the Expanse authors is a kind of first person immediacy. The best example of that kind of writing (I ever read) was Dasheill Hammet's "Maltese Falcon".

Glad Edinburgh is missing the worst of traditional winters. Chicago winters are getting steadily warmer. I remember winters in the 80s when it took days to find my car. I hear 1/3rd of my home state of Florida will be covered by water by 2100. Interesting times. Maybe I should continue moving North

 

[feralreason]

Non Stop by Brian Aldiss
The Exiles Trilogy by Ben Bova

Yes - re-reading "Non Stop" now. Think I last read it 20 or 30 years ago. Haven't read "The Exiles Trilogy". Read Bova's book "Colony" in the 80s. Prompted me to take a lecture series at the Chicago's Adler Planetarium. Thx for the tip.

 

[feralreason]

Can't help thinking it might be a little dull, and lack a certain amount of excitement?

"Day 178, Year 429. Woke up, had breakfast, went to work - checking suspension mountings on the second back-up Alcubierre warp drive units. Went home, ate, watched the holovee, bed."
"Day 179, Year 429. Woke up, had breakfast, went to work - checking suspension mountings on the second back-up Alcubierre warp drive units. Went home, ate, watched the holovee, bed."
"Day 180, Year 429. Woke up, had breakfast, went to work - checking suspension mountings on the second back-up Alcubierre warp drive units. Went home, ate, watched the holovee, bed."

​

Yeah - that one would have to be self-published You need a ticking clock. CO2 building up. Crewmembers passing out. Micro-meteorite holes in the hull. Failure of the fusion drive & you're heading for the sun (fix it or get out the marshmallows), dealing with the destruction trail of a suicidal saboteur (like hamsters chewing through the electrical wires, etc.) Gully Foyle in "The Stars my Destination" is a guy who, stranded on a ship without air tanks for his environment suit, had to make 5 minute trips to gradually fix everything in the ship before he could get back. (Perhaps The Expanse borrowed this scenario?) He pretty much followed your 'woke up, had breakfast, went to work' routine. But - he had 1) a ticking clock and 2) someone to get vengence on for stranding him in the ship. You can also use your classic submarine-stranded-on-the-bottom-air-running-out scenario (several movies and many of Michael DeMercurio's books have this). So you need some kind of building force that is working against the poor engineer trying to survive. (Tribbles eating through your last crate of Fritos, etc.)

 

[feralreason]

Many people have already suggested a lot of fiction in prose, so let me suggest something I consider myself an expert: the HBO Max animated series Scavengers Reign is one of the best things that came out in 2023, overall, and it features generation ships.

Cool - don't have HBO Max but will see if I can find it at the library or elsewhere.

 

[Pyan]

hamsters chewing through the electrical wire...

What a brilliant scenario...

Attack of the Space Hamsters

 

[SilentRoamer]

Non Stop by Brian Aldiss

Absolutely loved that book, interestingly it was titled Starship in the US.

Great twist and Aldiss is becoming one of my all time favourites.

 

[feralreason]

What a brilliant scenario...

Attack of the Space Hamsters

Yeah - that one was personal experience. Escaped hamsters finished off my stereo system. Fortunately, once they start chewing they don't reproduce, and they die fairly soon, so (unlike Tribbles) it's a problem that solves itself

 

[Orcadian]

Non Stop by Brian Aldiss

Just working now on downloading this, planning to listen sometime soon. Love generation ship stories.

 

[feralreason]

Just working now on downloading this, planning to listen sometime soon. Love generation ship stories.

Orcadian - where are you downloading from? I was looking for an Audible version but only found a Czech edition.

 

[Orcadian]

@feralreason I have PM'd you.

 

[feralreason]

On Steel Breeze is pretty good. I can think of other books that have that kind of stuff, but not really featuring generation ships.

I think the idea of generation ships fit with a time in SF when it seemed plausible that going to another solar system to live on a planet made sense. Given the richness of this solar system and the ability to build rotating space stations, I'm not sure if the juice is worth the squeeze anymore.

Reading "On Steel Breeze" now. Really enjoying it - not really a good book for the Audible version - too many accents and the use of the "ve" pronoun is confusing unless you can see it. However, Alastair Reynolds is really quite a good writer and the book is peppered with some really interesting ideas -- certainly a far cry from the Heinlein / Aldiss view of generation ship travel. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Orcadian]

I didn't mean that they are inaccurate, but they really are scant on useful details about long term living spaces. It would be interesting to read [about the] actual engineering or maintenance under normal circumstances, rather than what happens when there is a war or an impact.

@feralreason
I can think of several novels that talk about practical aspects of an enclosed habitat, including the logistics, galley, air conditioning, waste & air recycling, hydroponics. Then there are those that talk about artificial gravity in rotating systems (centrifugal & Coriolis forces), how to change orbit, how to launch from & land on a rotating object; even the (possible) appearance & operation of an FTL drive. For me these things are far more engaging than space wars, ray guns etc. Try:

Rendezvous with Rama (A.C. Clarke) for rotation, orbital changes & FTL drives.
Quarter Share (et seq; N. Lowell) for logistics to hydroponics.
Project Hail Mary (A. Weir) for rich descriptions of both possible and impossible engineering.
Downbelow Station ( C.J. Cherryh) for a vivid picture of a rotating space station struggling to cope with a rapidly changing momentum.
Boundary and Threshold (E. Flint) for some creative engineering (though when his imagination or expertise fails him, he simply invents stuff to fill the dramatic need!)
One of the Ringworld series (L. Niven) for how to get on, off and into a ring-shaped habitat.

 

[feralreason]

@feralreason
I can think of several novels that talk about practical aspects of an enclosed habitat, including the logistics, galley, air conditioning, waste & air recycling, hydroponics. Then there are those that talk about artificial gravity in rotating systems (centrifugal & Coriolis forces), how to change orbit, how to launch from & land on a rotating object; even the (possible) appearance & operation of an FTL drive. For me these things are far more engaging than space wars, ray guns etc. Try:

Rendezvous with Rama (A.C. Clarke) for rotation, orbital changes & FTL drives.
Quarter Share (et seq; N. Lowell) for logistics to hydroponics.
Project Hail Mary (A. Weir) for rich descriptions of both possible and impossible engineering.
Downbelow Station ( C.J. Cherryh) for a vivid picture of a rotating space station struggling to cope with a rapidly changing momentum.
Boundary and Threshold (E. Flint) for some creative engineering (though when his imagination or expertise fails him, he simply invents stuff to fill the dramatic need!)
One of the Ringworld series (L. Niven) for how to get on, off and into a ring-shaped habitat.

Quarter Share, Boundary and Threshold are new to me. I'll put them on the list. I read Project Hail Mary and Downbelow Station within the last 2 or 3 years. Read Ringworld quite a bit before that, but it has been at least 20 years since I read Rendezvous with Rama. I should probably re-read that one. Thanks!

 

[feralreason]

Rendezvous With Rama has really excellent engineering details - though of course the 'generations' it is home to are not human ones. Clarke's sparse descriptions of how the object is constructed and what it looks like generated possibly the most vivid picture I have ever had of an alien-built spacecraft. We must work out for ourselves how Rama functions and what its purpose is, and it is this engagement of one's mind that makes the novel so fascinating. There is a powerful sense that the object uses engineering that follows the laws of physics but is beyond present human technology.

Finally got through this. Clearly never read it before - but very good book & interesting concept. Many connections to past and future work: Perhaps Greg Bear's "Eon" ('85) was inspired by "Rama" (one obvious theory that could be applied to Rama is that it came from the future.) The 'organic' robots remind me a bit of the ones in "Cibola Burn" from the Expanse series. The space scooter (for disarming Mercury's missile) might have been a nod to the one in Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones" ('52) (where the grandmother got lost and ran out of fuel.) Good stuff

 

[Orcadian]

Finally got through this. Clearly never read it before - but very good book & interesting concept. Many connections to past and future work: Perhaps Greg Bear's "Eon" ('85) was inspired by "Rama" (one obvious theory that could be applied to Rama is that it came from the future.) The 'organic' robots remind me a bit of the ones in "Cibola Burn" from the Expanse series. The space scooter (for disarming Mercury's missile) might have been a nod to the one in Heinlein's "The Rolling Stones" ('52) (where the grandmother got lost and ran out of fuel.) Good stuff

Glad you enjoyed it! I have book 4 of the Cibola Burn series (title forgotten) in my list and will exentually get to it.