On Having An Online Presence

[Phyrebrat]

Fair point, but we shouldn't be in a situation where eccentric personality, real, fake or exaggerated, is the main selling point of someone's career, or where people see that as vital (or especially necessary?) to their success. It should be perfectly possible to be a complete recluse (which I'm not, by the way) and a successful writer. Given the current interest in different psychological and personality types, that kind of carefully-managed public persona feels quite "one size fits all".

I’ve not followed any writers on Instagram other than Jo and John Langan (and you if you’re on there) so I can’t comment on that too much.

But…

On Twitter I’ve been removing writers from my ‘following’ category. Whilst I can live with the need to platform I don’t tolerate those authors who do the whole meme or gif train thing. Or that ‘what’s your MC’s favourite colour?’ Or ‘is there a dog in your wip?’ They go straight to ‘unfollowed’

 

[The Big Peat]

What I am trying to say is that people who are successful at that sort of thing may be able to put the most interesting parts of their authentic selves into pictures and images, and so attract readers who mark the writer down as a kindred spirit, the kind of person who will be able to deliver the kind of story that appeals to them. Someone who shares their dreams and inmost fantasies, but unlike them is able to translate those into words and put them on the page.

For some of us, exposing ourselves in such a personal way may be a horrifying thought. Many writers are intensely private people. And some are so accustomed to being misunderstood and labeled as weird by others, the image they try to present to the world (when they are willing to present an image of themselves to the world at all) may be one of studied conventionality. "Look," any picture of themselves they deign to share may be saying, "I am an ordinary person, perfectly normal. See me in my t-shirt and jeans, just like any other regular guy (or gal)."

Being shy myself, I understand that sometimes people need their armor, they need their protective coloration. But what I ask now is, "Does that sell books?" Would it not be better to present another side, equally genuine, of themselves? (And if it would be better, is it even possible to steel ourselves to do so?)

The problem with this (to argue the other side of the fence) is we shouldn't have to. We shouldn't be obliged to share our personal lives to create success. Bluntly I think come a certain point, it raises ethical points as to a person's right to privacy.

But the problem is it's becoming less and less of a choice to just say "no, I don't think you need this". There are too many people who are naturally adroit at this, and too many people wanting to write for a living who can write well, for it not be a selection point. Particularly when you get past the barrier of getting accepted and are on the topic of "okay, but are you actually going to push me, or just publish me".

Yes, there's many ways of doing it if one decides to. I would suggest to @Toby Frost that maybe he could start selecting and painting minis that resemble his characters, or characters from big fantasy books he admires, as a form of online presence, because that seems to be entirely in his wheelhouse and to be fun and eyecatching. But maybe that would make doing so a drag. And maybe it's right to say "this shouldn't have to happen" even if it is trying to get the tide to go back out.

 

[Montero]

I'm trying to remember who it was, but there was a big name author decades ago who wrote totally fabricated bios about spending three years as a ship's cook in the China seas and other unusual occupations and he'd done none of them. The bios changed over the years with different stories. All pre internet.

 

[Montero]

I looked at Shepherd briefly and it looks interesting. I don't mean to rubbish it, but my main question would be how many readers - as opposed to writers - get to see it. I've seen a lot of "authors helping each other" groups that don't seem to reach a wider reading audience. However, that doesn't mean that Shepherd won't work. It sounds like a good idea.

The founder is an entrepreneur, not an author, and it isn't an author help group as such, though I do agree that it could be. The founder is looking to meet his costs from book sales, eventually. At the moment it is a mix of book sales, his savings and annual donations from supporters (£40 - £90) but it is totally free to use as a reader or an author. It is just he needs to pay one or more programming professionals to build it. The For Authors link, above, and the roadmap etc does include data on millions of visits per year, so that is suggesting a lot more than just authors there.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I’m one of the writers who has a following (small but powerful) in part based on the personality I put online.

I’m easily reachable
I think I come across as approachable
I say yes to things that sound like good craic
I support friends, writers and non writers. This isn’t fake, I’m just that kind of person. That support often comes back.

So, for instance, I was approached yesterday by some students at a uni where I’m on the syllabus (which always astonished me) and they’d like to pop out to interview me and then use that as the basis for a project that’s part of their degree (a biography of me I think). It sounds like good craic. It’s an afternoon of my time. Why not?

I’m not trying to crack algorithms or spending a load of time doing it. I just buzz along, being me (I’m much funnier on line I think), and … don’t overthink it.

Say yes to what comes your way. Put up the odd natural silly photo. Tell jokes (you’re a funny guy!) whatever. But whatever you, have fun.

 

[WrittenWord]

I’m one of the writers who has a following (small but powerful) in part based on the personality I put online.

I’m easily reachable
I think I come across as approachable
I say yes to things that sound like good craic
I support friends, writers and non writers. This isn’t fake, I’m just that kind of person. That support often comes back.

So, for instance, I was approached yesterday by some students at a uni where I’m on the syllabus (which always astonished me) and they’d like to pop out to interview me and then use that as the basis for a project that’s part of their degree (a biography of me I think). It sounds like good craic. It’s an afternoon of my time. Why not?

I’m not trying to crack algorithms or spending a load of time doing it. I just buzz along, being me (I’m much funnier on line I think), and … don’t overthink it.

Say yes to what comes your way. Put up the odd natural silly photo. Tell jokes (you’re a funny guy!) whatever. But whatever you, have fun.

Like your approach a lot, but writers also tend to be naturally introverted/homebodies.

Where are you from that "craic" is a saying?

 

[ColGray]

There are too many people who are naturally adroit at this, and too many people wanting to write for a living who can write well, for it not be a selection point. Particularly when you get past the barrier of getting accepted and are on the topic of "okay, but are you actually going to push me, or just publish me".

Are there? Are there 5m/yr good books or just 5m books published? Are there 1m good books published each year? 10,000? Even 10,000 seems high to me. Given 8bn people, if 1% want to write a book, 2% actually sit down and do it, 2% of that cohort actually finishes and edits it -- that's 32k books. Is every book you've written "good"? Not great-- good. I know my own answer is no. Let's say, 25% of those finished books are good -- that's 8,000 "good" books written in a given year.

What are the odds those 8k books are found and read and loved? Oh, i know, good stories/games/art finds its audience but... that process requires platforming. 100 years ago that was critics and tastemakers and other members of that art raising up new work. Now? Show me a Tor debut without a Scalzi quote -- and while he's apparently a very nice guy, he loves every single book? Not a single stinker?

But the last bit is the critical one: if the publisher isn't platforming the book, if they're not drawing readers to it rather than simply dumping it overboard and claiming it'll find it's audience, then... why? What's in it for the author other than dying-media cache? The value an author sees from a modern publisher relationship can be quantified into Access and Promotion. Outside of that ... what's the point?

 

[KGeo777]

I would say that trying to sell by being socially outgoing is not much of a value for most writers.
And some years ago--I recall some big publisher advertising a couple of new writers by focusing on their unusual biographies--one was a teenager, the other was a single mother.
You know what was missing? The book. The content of the book didn't seem to matter as much as the background of the author.
Whether the story was exciting or unique--that didn't matter. Just who the writer was.


I think in selling art works having an online presence is less important than having targeted access to people who want to buy your things.

I remember one time I was at an art show and someone came by and said zero to me--didn't say anything about my work--just passed by rather rudely. I thought, gee they don't like my work at all.
Later I learned that this individual had in fact stopped at the selling booth behind me and had bought one of my items--and said "I'm only interested in his work."
And yet I might have had cheerful friendly conversations with dozens of people who never bought anything from me.

I'd rather have a sale than a chat.

 

[Danny McG]

is there a dog in your wip?’ They go straight to ‘unfollowed’

That's Dean Koontz out then.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Like your approach a lot, but writers also tend to be naturally introverted/homebodies.

Where are you from that "craic" is a saying?

Yeah, I know, it’s tricky. I’m not saying people should do the same - what I’m thinking is that being natural goes further than faking things for an algorithm, and that saying yes to things can sometimes open doors. That doesn’t have to be things that need extroversion - Gareth Powell does this very well and has a terrific following, and doesn’t come across as at all extrovert, just helpful and very kind.

I’m from the north of Ireland.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I’m from the north of Ireland.

Did you mean this to sound as intimidating as it did ??

 

[Montero]

Am I right that craic is pronounced "crack"? And is means a good chat, or gossip?

 

[Ursa major]

Scalzi quote

Speaking of Scalzi (and being a little bit more on topic), he wrote a blog post that touched on self-promotion.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Did you mean this to sound as intimidating as it did ??

Of course. It’s in our blood (dark humour alert, everyone!)

Am I right that craic is pronounced "crack"? And is means a good chat, or gossip?

Yeah. It means a good time, good entertainment, good company, a good night out

 

[Montero]

Incidentally, was it Scalzi the first person who really got blogs going? Because I remember seeing a post a few years back, from someone saying "oh I've been reading xxxx blog since he started, but I've never bought one of his books."

 

[Montero]

So - Tik Tok. Never tried to be on it, have the impression that it is a bit like watching a TV drama about American high school - cliquey, glossy and narrow. Anyone been on there and have any comment?

Am thinking that if that is the case, and you've written something that doesn't match the demographic on Tik-Tok there is no point in going on there and have a horrible feeling I am a long way off from the Tik-Tok vibe.

A friend did go on one of the platforms where you serialise your book and in theory you are publishing a chapter at a time as you write it, and people are joining into comment and get enthusiastic. Ideally you are supposed to put out the whole book, but a lot of people only did a long sample. Big battle military sf was popular with people jumping in to make comments, ditto vampire romance books, especially ones with titles involving words like Vanilla and having super lipsticked big red lips in the cover. Any other sort of genre seemed to get one or two people if you were lucky.

 

[ColGray]

So - Tik Tok. Never tried to be on it, have the impression that it is a bit like watching a TV drama about American high school - cliquey, glossy and narrow. Anyone been on there and have any comment?

Am thinking that if that is the case, and you've written something that doesn't match the demographic on Tik-Tok there is no point in going on there and have a horrible feeling I am a long way off from the Tik-Tok vibe.

A friend did go on one of the platforms where you serialise your book and in theory you are publishing a chapter at a time as you write it, and people are joining into comment and get enthusiastic. Ideally you are supposed to put out the whole book, but a lot of people only did a long sample. Big battle military sf was popular with people jumping in to make comments, ditto vampire romance books, especially ones with titles involving words like Vanilla and having super lipsticked big red lips in the cover. Any other sort of genre seemed to get one or two people if you were lucky.

That's one portion of TikTok. Other portions are broader, funnier, or more bizarre. Everything around social media (performative people, funny people, people selling things, etc) all appear on TikTok in roughly equal measure.

Wattpad and Royal Road are definitely interesting mediums--though they tend to specialize in attracting specific genre's. RR is well known for isekai/portal fantasy, LitRPG, and progression, but also has other forms of nearly everything. Wattpad is well known for romance and fic-romance (werewolf, vampire, etc).

I did RR for a while and had a solid following for a book (top 20 ranking in scifi, drama and adventure, but, not a huge number of followers) and I ended my account because I didn't feel like I was spending a TON of time engaging, very little time writing and ultimately not getting what I wanted from it. There was a fascinating post recently on the reddit /royalroad sub that used a ton of data to show what drives followers and what drives patreon subscribers (Rating is broadly irrelevant and the biggest indicator of followers are page count and other followers: people want to belong).

 

[ColGray]

And if you're interested in the data/post -- here it is: RoyalRoad Data Infographic - Samuel Hinton

I'd be surprised if RR's correlations and informational underpinnings aren't similar to broader platforms and/or NO platforms -- i.e. any method of sharing work broadly, from trad pub to self pub to RR or Wattpad

Here's the correlation table

 

[Toby Frost]

Scalzi's blog post seems to be just saying "There's nothing wrong with publicity", which seems true but obvious to me.

Traditionally, there have been two types of sales: ones that involve you personally, usually small numbers at events or via individual conversations (I'm fine at this) and those which are done through marketing that doesn't directly involve you (I'm terrible at this, as I have no skill in maths, statistics etc). Above a very small sales level, most sales would be done the second way.

What the article seems to be saying is that now, an author (especially a self-published one) is expected to sell books to anonymous people but through their own personality/performance/whatever the word is. I can (sometimes) persuade one person to purchase a book if I speak to him directly. I don't have the time or the skills to persuade large numbers of people to do that via my antics on Tic Toc or the like.

 

[Ursa major]

Scalzi's blog post seems to be just saying

He also mentioned the kind of things authors had to do before the Internet:

[...] but let’s leave stories of authors and musicians selling their self-published/pressed books and music out of the trunks of their cars, and having to be their own press agents calling newspapers and radio stations from gas station pay phones, in the dust of the 20th century for now.