Foundation

Gollum: didn't know you'd been curious about Ike's Foundation books. While they have their flaws (he was a very young writer when he began the series), I'd have to rate the Foundation novels, especially, oddly, the earlier ones, as among the best sf to come out of the Golden Age; and frankly, for all my love of and support for the New Wave and after, I think the Golden Age has received some seriously unmerited slighting. There were some stupendous talents working in that period, and it's hard to top writers like Kornbluth, Kuttner & Moore, Fred Brown, Leiber, Hal Clement, Walter M. Miller, Jr. (especially A Canticle for Leibowitz), Lester del Rey, Heinlein (at his best, and some of his writing during the '40s is very, very good), Bradbury, Matheson (more late 40's and on, but still Golden Age), Clarke, "William Tenn", "Cordwainer Smith", Ted Sturgeon.... Anyone who sneers at what came out of that period is simply unable to look beyond contemporary prejudices, much as the eighteenth-century rationalists were unable to see any merit in much older writing dealing with fantastic subjects, or the seventeenth century was unable to see any merit in Shakespeare, or the Romantics were able to see any merit in Johnson and Gibbon, or the Modernists were able to see anything worth saving from the Victorians. Bull! No period with minds like these is devoid of material worthy to stand with the best of any other -- the idioms change, but quality is quality, whatever era it's from.

So, yes, I'd highly recommend the Foundation series -- at least the original trilogy; I've some reservations about the later books (though I enjoyed them). And as for character -- what about Magnifico? I think he sticks in the mind long years after one has read the books.....
 
J.D, I have to agree about respect for the golden age. If you consider the world they lived in and the things they imagined, their writing was wonderful. Obviously modern technology changes the perspective of the modern writer. It has to. But series' like Foundation created universes with all their technology and politics without knowing even what the later half of the Twentieth Century would bring.
 
I read the Foundation series (1st 3 books) as a teenager. My recollection is that when I read them I thought that they were among the best science fiction books ever written. Reread them a few months ago, 25 years later. 25 years later they seem pretty bad, and I wouldn't recommend them. There are worse books out there, but I recommend reading other Asimov works ahead of Foundation. Recently read a group of three Asimov books combined in one volume called Triangle. All three written in the early 1950s. They held up pretty well, much better than Foundation, although of course a little dated. I also recently reread a collection of Asimov's short stories. Many of these are still very enjoyable. Asimov is a better short story writer than novelist, IMO.
 
I have read Foundation,Foundation and Empire,Second Foundation,Foundation and Earth.

I am in the middle of reading Foundation's Edge.

I think the first three books are the best sci fi series i have read. I loved the characters,the dying empire, the Mule,the hole pyschohistory thing.

I think Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth is not as good cause of the hole Gaia thing. I think he lost a little focus there on what made the first three books amazing.

I havent read these two Prelude to Foundation,Forward The Foundation cause i am reading the series in the order the came out.
 
Err...no you're not. Looks like you read "Foundation & Earth" before "Foundation's Edge", which is the wrong way around. No wonder you're not enjoying those books as much! :D

I actually loved those two books just as much as the original series but they are different. I wouldn't say he lost focus, more like shifted it in a different direction.

Actually, you might want to read (if you haven't already) the Elijah Baley novels ("Caves of Steel", "Naked Sun", "Robots of Dawn" & "Robots & Empire") too because they kind of tie in with the foundation series (although they are set before the establishment of the galactic empires).

There are also three other novels which are set during the galactic empire's heyday ("Pebbles in the sky", "The stars, like dust" & "The Currents of Space") and are each stand alone novels.
 
No i read in the right order, i dunno why i wrote wrong. Might be that i read most of them one after the other and didnt really focus on thier name, specially on the last two books.


I remember i found Golan Trevize very interesting, its too bad i dont like the hole Gaia thing that ruins the two books he is in compared to the first three.


I liked Foundation and Empire and Second Foundation most cause The Mule.


When i finish the last one. I will go and read his short stories plus some of the Robot ones. I dont wanna read the empire series right now. I wanna read diffrent type of Assimov stories.
 
What I loved about Foundation & Earth was, along with the long running quest to find earth, there is the running debate between the virtues of collectivism verses individualism. I actually don't agree with the outcome of that debate but I still enjoyed reading it!
 
I enjoyed those things too.

I liked it when they were in that wierd planed where there was huge dogs and those wierd people that lived alone. You know the planet they took the child from.
 
Connavar of Rigante said:
I enjoyed those things too.

I liked it when they were in that wierd planed where there was huge dogs and those wierd people that lived alone. You know the planet they took the child from.
Click to expand...
Indeed...Aurora and Solaris I believe. The background of those planets is filled out considerably in "Naked Sun" and "Robots of Dawn" by the way. Not to mention that of Daneel...
 
Connavar of Rigante said:
I enjoyed those things too.

I liked it when they were in that wierd planed where there was huge dogs and those wierd people that lived alone. You know the planet they took the child from.
Click to expand...

Fried Egg said:
Indeed...Aurora and Solaris I believe. The background of those planets is filled out considerably in "Naked Sun" and "Robots of Dawn" by the way. Not to mention that of Daneel...
Click to expand...

Is this 'Foundation and Earth'? I'm particularly wanting to try this one as, supposedly, it features Earth, which I would find reassuring as I like a point of reference, and also Daneel Olivaw.

Taking on all 7 of the Foundation books is a daunting idea for me as I've never really liked the more fantasy side of SF - I've always prefered hard SF - but I'm longing to find out what Daneel will get up to, after the sad ending in Robots and Empire - where poor Giskard 'expires'.
 
I've read the original trilogy, that was apparently a weekly story he published in the fifties and then had slapped together in later years. personally I felt they were too disjointed, but there you go. foundations edge, foundation and earth, prelude to foundation and forward the foundation I've read, and did find them a bit more on the cohesive side. even if Asimov liked to play "I have a secret" more than any other author I've ever seen. (still not over the watch face thing from pebble in the sky)

Catbar, don't let the numbers get to you, books are only words, and its only time. if you've read more than seven books in your life, than seven in a single universe isn't all THAT bad. after all there were 4 robot novels that more than half the foundation stuff. and if you read the m by time in the galaxy you'll run across Daneel and it'll at least keep you going through the foundation trilogy. yes high in Science fiction, non-existant fantasy, but never did like the lack of continuous characters, or story for that matter.
 
I don't if it's just me but wouldn't it be interesting if the Foundation series was made into a movie series. I guess it wouldn't appeal too much to the masses as it doesn't really offer that much excitement or suspense. At least, it didn't give me much excitement or suspense. I read it for the intricate plot and the rich fictional universe.
 
I've only ever read the orignal Foundation trilogy. I must see about looking into the subsequent books further in the New Year. That was 20 years ago, so I don't remember understanding that much of them then. Hopefully I'll be able to grasp more on a second pass through...:)
 
I first read Foundation when I was confined to a hospital many years ago.

I got so absorbed in the great story I clean forgot about my illness.
 
There's an enormous amount of Golden Age sf that isn't concerned with those things, however. The majority of work by C. M. Kornbluth, Lester del Rey, Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore (together or separately), L. Sprague de Camp, Ray Bradbury (though he was more of a fantaisiste using science-fictional tropes), Theodore Sturgeon, Cordwainer Smith, Frederik Pohl... even a fair chunk of Cordwainer Smith and Robert A. Heinlein, were more concerned with other things rather than space travel and aliens.

Science fiction -- as with any worthwhile literature -- is driven by the concerns of its times, and a lot of sf dealt with earth-bound issues (albeit often in the form of the future of current trends). The Foundation books are (quite rightly, I'd say) considered among the cornerstones of Campbellian sf. Very little of Asimov, by the way, has aliens; and as for "rockets" -- I assume you mean space-traveling vehicles, as rockets proper would severly limit travel... in which case, there's quite a bit of that going on in the Foundation books... a galactic empire, for one thing, which requires an enormous amount of such; not to mention the space chase concerning the Mule, or in search of the Second Foundation, etc. Space battles are in Foundation, there's a fair amount of shiny technology (a type of sf which George O. Smith excelled in, and he was also -- quite rightly -- considered to be one of the great exemplars of Golden Age sf)... all these hallmarks of Golden Age sf are the trilogy....
 
Since Foundation was my first ever SF book i think its lucky it was such a good book of Asimov.

I liked the ideas,social story,the normal people characters,Mule. If it was only aliens and robots and not thought provoking i wouldn't be the avid reader of SF i am today thats for sure. The history and sweep of it was the best.


Its funny i barely remember the actions scenes ie what people these days want and demand from modern space opera. I remember the ideas,the history,characters.
 
The reason that led to no aliens in Foundation was that Campbell and Asimov got into some heated arguments about humans having to be the most advanced and smartest race in the galaxy. Asimov felt differently, but he skirted the problem by sticking to a completely human galaxy, albeit with some robots at least during some eras, but they don't really count from a psychohistory POV.
 
Asimov touched on a possible explanation as to why there were no aliens in the galaxy in "End of Eternity". The eternals selected a future which didn't include any in order to protect humanity's future.
 
manephelien said:
The reason that led to no aliens in Foundation was that Campbell and Asimov got into some heated arguments about humans having to be the most advanced and smartest race in the galaxy. Asimov felt differently, but he skirted the problem by sticking to a completely human galaxy, albeit with some robots at least during some eras, but they don't really count from a psychohistory POV.
Click to expand...

Campbell had a good point seeing how recent Space Opera are like.

Many more aliens,robots,cyborgs or what not than a human galaxy like Foundation in todays Space Opera. Which makes Foundations galaxy stand out.

Of course not saying humans are the smartest race in galaxy, the others have to be really stupid for that to be true :cool:
 
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