Is it just me, or does this strike the rest of you as being ever so slightly silly?

[TK-421]

I am a Stark fan and would love to see them rule the Seven Kingdoms and the Wall. If not that then at least regain the North.

I like the Starks as well even though their pride gets in the way sometimes and Ned was a little righteous at times. But the Starks were never meant to rule the 7 kingdoms. The North maybe. And nobody rules the Wall as they are like bureaucrats - impartial and non-partisan.

 

[rudycrab]

People keep saying Ned was self-righteous but I can only remember the time Jaime describes how Ned judged him for killing the king without knowing about the whole burning King's Landing thing. But, come on, after seeing the result of the Lannister sack of King's Landing and then finding Jame with the blood of a man he swore to protect on his sword sitting in the Iron Throne, I think being a wee bit judgemental is what anyone would do. I think it was good that Jaime killed the king and saved the city. The Oathbreaker thing is crap but how could he expect any other outcome regardless of who found him. Oh and I think the idea of Dany staying in the Free Cities to rule is awesome. It would blow away normal fantasy cliches and be a breath of fresh air. But I doubt it will happen.

 

[Boaz]

If Jaime had not killed Aerys II, then either the city would have been blown to bits or Ned would have confronted Aerys himself. What would have happened when Ned faced Aerys? Would Ned have killed him in retribution for his father and brother or would he have restrained himself and given Aerys to Robert for judgement?

I wonder about Ned's honor if he'd had that decision to make. Imagine it... the middle of a war... the prize is in sight... you are leading the vanguard... swords, blood, fire... death is everywhere... you are losing men to the Mad King... and suddenly the murderer is there... a madman is gibbering on the Iron Throne, the man who killed your father, the man who killed your brother, and the man whose son has raped your sister... the very man who ordered your death six months ago, and he'll kill you now if he gets the chance... do you give him over to Robert? or do you gain justice for your family... you feel the greatsword in your hand... it calls to you "Ice can quench fire"... the Valyrian blade can end the line of Valyrian maniacs... what do you do?

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Re: Is it just me, or does this strike the rest of you as being ever so slightly sill

If Jaime had not killed Aerys II, then either the city would have been blown to bits or Ned would have confronted Aerys himself. What would have happened when Ned faced Aerys? Would Ned have killed him in retribution for his father and brother or would he have restrained himself and given Aerys to Robert for judgement?

I wonder about Ned's honor if he'd had that decision to make. Imagine it... the middle of a war... the prize is in sight... you are leading the vanguard... swords, blood, fire... death is everywhere... you are losing men to the Mad King... and suddenly the murderer is there... a madman is gibbering on the Iron Throne, the man who killed your father, the man who killed your brother, and the man whose son has raped your sister... the very man who ordered your death six months ago, and he'll kill you now if he gets the chance... do you give him over to Robert? or do you gain justice for your family... you feel the greatsword in your hand... it calls to you "Ice can quench fire"... the Valyrian blade can end the line of Valyrian maniacs... what do you do?

Have a Break! have a Kit-Kat!

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Re: Is it just me, or does this strike the rest of you as being ever so slightly sill

Have a Break! have a Kit-Kat!

*snort*

Ned would have killed him, for sure. But then again, Ned had not sworn any vows to protect the king, nor had he himself sworn fealty to Aerys.

As for Daenerys being fit to rule- I think she is more fit to rule now than any of the past rulers have been. Aerys, Robert, Joffrey, Cersei- terrible, all of them. The difference between Daenerys is that, were she to rule, I think she would actually rule the kingdom herself, but she would value her Hand's advice. She wouldn't be suspicious, jealous, lazy, conceited, or power-hungry.

 

[TK-421]

and the man whose son has raped your sister...

I thought that Rheagar and Ned's sister were lovers and Jon was their son? Ned took Jon as his own ******* as his promise to his dying sister and to protect the boy from Robert. Coming back to what the Wandering Septon said in AFFC, the Battle on the Trident was between two men and over a woman...

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Re: Is it just me, or does this strike the rest of you as being ever so slightly sill

I thought that Rheagar and Ned's sister were lovers and Jon was their son? Ned took Jon as his own ******* as his promise to his dying sister and to protect the boy from Robert.

Yes, but at the time Ned probably had no idea whether his sister had gone with rhaegar willingly, or been forced. It wasn't until he "rescued" Lyana that there would have been an oppertunity for her to tell him what had happened.

 

[TK-421]

Re: Is it just me, or does this strike the rest of you as being ever so slightly sill

Yes, but at the time Ned probably had no idea whether his sister had gone with rhaegar willingly, or been forced. It wasn't until he "rescued" Lyana that there would have been an oppertunity for her to tell him what had happened.

What was all that about the time spent at Starfell was it? Isn't that where Lyana was sent to when they found out she was pregnant or is that just a theory?

 

[Boaz]

Regarding Lyanna's time with Rhaegar, we only have Robert's opinion on this. Lyanna was his betrothed, so Robert assumed that Rhaegar kinapped and raped her.

Ned remembers Lyanna at her death, but in his memories he does not place any judgement on Lyanna's circumstances in arriving at Starfall.

I personally feel from Barristan's testimony, to Dany on Rhaegar's character, that Rhaegar would not have kidnapped and raped Lyanna. Ned's POV and Meera's stories show us that Lyanna possessed a strong will... she did what she wanted. It is my opinion that Robert's understanding of Lyanna's time at Starfall is incorrect. I think Lyanna went willingly.

 

[dyffeg]

Hi all,
maybe this is a little off topic, and *** spoiler alert**** if you haven't read AFFC



I agree what Rudy Crab said re:

I think that a repeat of Aegon's conquest by Dany in order to bring peace seems alittle bit too simple and obvious for GRRM. It would be disapointing...
Hiding in castles and building big armies is not the way to fight dragons. Also how old were Aegon's dragons? It seems Dany will have to make her move quickly to capitalize on the current turmoil so her dragons will still be quite young.

I just don't think it will be that simple with DAny and dragons... it's probably been mentioned elsewhere, but remember that Euron ONeEye had a horn that controlled Dragons (the guy that blew it died, with blackened lungs). Hence the Dragons have a controlling factor.

Regards,
Dyffeg
PS, not sure if I have this quoting thing down pat!

 

[TK-421]

I just don't think it will be that simple with DAny and dragons... it's probably been mentioned elsewhere, but remember that Euron ONeEye had a horn that controlled Dragons (the guy that blew it died, with blackened lungs). Hence the Dragons have a controlling factor.

Yes, he did have the horn but it was never mentionned if Victarion took the horm with him when he left to go find Dany (and keep her for himself...). The Ironborn could certainly provide Dany with the fleet from Westeros that she needs but I'm not sure she would agree to use them because they themselves are seen as marauders and (kind of like the Vikings of Westeros).

There's a reason GRRM decided to include that specific preview chapter to ADFD, which focuses on Dany and the problem with growing dragons. They are getting bigger and thougher to control and now are eating children instead of just sheep or goats. The same people she freed may revolt against her and her dragons.

Frankly to build up Dany in the last four books as the "rightful heir to the Iron Throne" (I know alot of you disagree with her claim) and the only Targaryen left (that we know about) and just have her flame out in Slaver's Bay or the Free Cities would simply suck. She has to make an appearance in Westeros as some point and she will with the help of Dorne, Sam the Slayer, Ser Barristan the Bold, the Wall, Tyrion, Arya, the Tyrells and the Ironborn.