Who's next in line?

[Rosemary]

When all is said and done... its clearly all about one thing.. the commonwealth.. the one unifying thing.. (Canada excepted for some bizarre reason that is!)

And not brit domination but english...

You know what I mean of course.. Its cricket!!!

The cricket series hasn't finished yet - anything could happen!

Why do you call the English - Brits? The British tribes were mostly absorbed into England, the country of the Angles and Saxons.

 

[Neil040]

The cricket series hasn't finished yet - anything could happen!

Why do you call the English - Brits? The British tribes were mostly absorbed into England, the country of the Angles and Saxons.

It sure will! pretty good stuff so far I think.. shame that the match was called off for the day cos of bad light.. as Boycott said.. if games in england were called off because of gloomy light there would hardly be any cricket left to play in an english summer! lol

As to the British tribes.. and the historians here can contradict me at will.. but my understanding is that the remnants of the brit tribes.. the celts.. were pushed from england into wales in particular. Scotland retained its celtic origins also as did Ireland.. until the influx of scottish protestants that is!

The brits are collectively the whole bunch of us (excepting the southern irish of course who would take extreme unction to be so designated! lol)

But as you know.. the scots and welsh can't play cricket for toffee so that is where the english distinction starts to matter... but to complicate things.. the Irish cricket team have managed to get themselves into next years world cup by jove! So they are in danger of becoming honoury brits (I mean English I think but I am confusing myself here!) if they aint careful!

 

[Rosemary]

As to the British tribes.. and the historians here can contradict me at will.. but my understanding is that the remnants of the brit tribes.. the celts.. were pushed from england into wales in particular. Scotland retained its celtic origins also as did Ireland.. until the influx of scottish protestants that is!

The brits are collectively the whole bunch of us (excepting the southern irish of course who would take extreme unction to be so designated! lol)

You're right about the weather and the cricket. Which is worse the rain at the cricket in England or the heat of Australia?
Scotland was actully inhabited the Picts and then by the Irish Delriada - so logically the 'scottish protestants' were really Irish

I would have thought the people of Scotland wouldn't enjoy being called Brits either! I know the whole country is collectively know as The United Kingdom - which seems rather strange, seeing as they are not all 'united'

 

[Neil040]

Scotland was actully inhabited the Picts and then by the Irish Delriada - so logically the 'scottish protestants' were really Irish

I would have thought the people of Scotland wouldn't enjoy being called Brits either! I know the whole country is collectively know as The United Kingdom - which seems rather strange, seeing as they are not all 'united'

Uhoh.. I AM dealing with a historian! damn!

Ok.. so night flying without instruments as I am here... is it not the case that Ireland was settled around about 4000 years ago by Iberians? As in the first settlement and fortification remains on the Arann Islands.. On Inish More at Dun Aengus.. so basically the Irish are actually Spanish? ehem

Meanwhile the Scots really dont care what you call them so long as you do it with a smile and a pint!

 

[Rosemary]

Uhoh.. I AM dealing with a historian! damn!

Ok.. so night flying without instruments as I am here... is it not the case that Ireland was settled around about 4000 years ago by Iberians? As in the first settlement and fortification remains on the Arann Islands.. On Inish More at Dun Aengus.. so basically the Irish are actually Spanish? ehem

Meanwhile the Scots really dont care what you call them so long as you do it with a smile and a pint!

I certainly wouldn't say a historian! Just enjoy reading and doing research about it. I know that Ireland was invaded many times, the Fir Bolg for example! I thought the Tuatha Dan arrived before the Iberians - could be wrong though, especially as the Tuatha Dan are mythylogical! Not at home so can't check my notes! I expect you are correct though. Who came after the Tuatha Dan?
Oh by the way - a lot of the British/Celtic tribes were basically forced to flee across the channel and settle in what is now known as Brittany.

 

[Neil040]

I certainly wouldn't say a historian! Just enjoy reading and doing research about it. I know that Ireland was invaded many times, the Fir Bolg for example! I thought the Tuatha Dan arrived before the Iberians - could be wrong though, especially as the Tuatha Dan are mythylogical! Not at home so can't check my notes! I expect you are correct though. Who came after the Tuatha Dan?
Oh by the way - a lot of the British/Celtic tribes were basically forced to flee across the channel and settle in what is now known as Brittany.

I am woefully ignorant in truth Rosemary... I do enjoy reading but have done little in research really. I only know about the Iberians and the fort at Dun Aengus on the Arron Islands because I visited it many years ago and was fascinated by that unbelievable place.. to me it is one of the wonders of the world and if you ever come to the west of ireland do go there! Inish More.. one of those bleak and treeless yet beautiful islands are just about the most westward land in europe.. on the atlantic side there is the fort.. a large stone constructed area built with its back to the sea... three concentric series of walls.. increasingly massive as you move towards the sea... half circles and the outer area planted with thousands of stones to break any enemy approach..

To enter the last fastness you go through one tunnel in the walls that by then are perhaps twenty feet thick.. and the walls on each side end at the cliffside... where there is a drop of maybe 500 feet sheer to the atlantic below.. It is impressive beyond words..

As I understand it this was the first known settlement of those Iberians as they began their incursion into Ireland.. what amazes me to this day it what on earth they encountered that led them to put so much effort into the most dramatic defensive system on the edge of a cliff on the edge of europe.. defences that are still one of the most impressive remains in all europe!

I wish I knew..

What you say about the Tualtha Dan is fascinating.. I must learn more.. thank you

 

[Neil040]

I forgot to ask.. a silly question to an australian I guess.. but from your interest and knowledge of irish and celtic history I am thinking you have perhaps irish origins?

And finally before I retire.. woozy with the first ashes victory in 16 years!!! hehe I have to say that was the best cricket I ever saw a lifetime of unachieving english teams.. and the best spirit ever too.. you aussies are champions even when you lose! Whatever politics and stupidity exists in this world the one thing I would always count on is a good aussie by my side.. fair play to you and whatever god exists may he bless the lot of you!

 

[cyborg_cinema]

Evolution is slowing down because the criteria for survival and prospering is no longer being the fittest...

...stop evolution—the human race is good enough.

 

[Rosemary]

What you say about the Tualtha Dan is fascinating.. I must learn more.. thank you [/QUOTE]
In most librarys there is usually something on Mythology, Pre-historic, The Celts, Old British, Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Norse - the list goes on. Irish Mythology is very interesting I must admit. You can also find books on where all of the 'ancient forts - pre Roman - are to be found in the United Kingdom.
No Irish ancestors that I know of - perhaps a bit of Spanish eons ago!! I was English - now a true blue Aussie. Well done to the English Cricket team! I hope we will always be good loosers!

 

[Rosemary]

...stop evolution—the human race is good enough.

Why do you say that cyborg? Some of the human race definately needs a good shaking at the very least!

So have you come up with anymore marvellous ideas about communicating without language?

 

[cyborg_cinema]

...have you come up with any more marvellous ideas about communicating without language?

..."language" seems to include any communication that has anything to do with our five senses—including the sixth. Otherwise, I have some body language innovations.

 

[littlemissattitude]

At least one school of thought has it that, in humans, physical evolution has been mostly replaced by cultural evolution. So, while there is some physical evolution going on (more and more people being born without wisdom teeth, for example), most of the change is cultural/psychological in nature. Although I seem to recall seeing a headline recently that someone has come to the conclusion that the brain is not nearly done evolving. Which, I suppose, is where things like precognitive abilities would come in (if that isn't something we've actually devolved away from).

I'm going to have to go searching to see if that brain evolution article really exists, or if it was a figment of my imagination. "Anthropology in the News" here I come, I guess.

Edit: Found it. It is an article from September 9, and was fairly widely covered. This link is from the BBC:

University scientists say they have found strong proof that the human brain is still evolving.


By comparing modern man with our ancestors of 37,000 years ago, the Chicago team discovered big changes in two genes linked to brain size.



One of the new variants emerged only 5,800 years ago yet is present in 30% of today's humans, they believe.

This is very short in evolutionary terms, suggesting intense selection pressures, they told Science.

You can read the whole article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4222460.stm

The only issue I take with the conclusions presented is that there is too big an effort, in my opinion, to argue that the discovery of these two variants is evidence for the biological roots culture. But that's probably because I'm not a big fan of sociobiology. I think I would argue that the increases in brain size (which I imagine would have been accompanied by an increase in neurons) would increase the capacity for more complex behavior but would not dictate what that behavior would be except perhaps in a very, very general way. Still, an interesting article, especially since it ties one of the variants to the beginnings of art and music, and the other to the beginnings of agriculture, settled life, and writing.

 

[Neil040]

At least one school of thought has it that, in humans, physical evolution has been mostly replaced by cultural evolution. So, while there is some physical evolution going on (more and more people being born without wisdom teeth, for example), most of the change is cultural/psychological in nature. Although I seem to recall seeing a headline recently that someone has come to the conclusion that the brain is not nearly done evolving. Which, I suppose, is where things like precognitive abilities would come in (if that isn't something we've actually devolved away from).

I agree with the cultural/social evolution idea as it seems clearly evident that that has overcome physical evolution, that can be a lengthy process... but the evolution of the brain could be an altogether different game.. human's tool making abilities allowed all else to follow possibly.. meaning that we were able to gradually dominate as a species in the wild which gave the social side a chance to develop..

What fascinates me is not the just the brain size.. but the fact that so much of the brain is not even used.. now that could be happenstance.. or it could be an critical evolutionary element that could lead anywhere I suppose.. such as suggested above in maybe future precog abilities.. (also assuming that is not in the past.. but nothing to really suggest that such a useful abilty would actually have been abandoned in an evolutionary process)

So much un-used brain space could definitely be space waiting to be evolved into.. which is exciting and frightening all at once! Obviously by its nature evolution follows its own path.. perhaps the path for humans would be similar for any tool using, cognitive species found anywhere throughout the universe. Which could mean that the critical point comes at the period in evolution when an intelligent species either gets past the ability to destroy its own environment and even planet... or doesn't.. If it does, then maybe the rest would follow.. physical evolution ceases to matter as the ability to control the physical world renders that irrelevant..

For example, the inevitable direction a real understanding of genetics would not be superpersons.. but simple things.. like being able to regrow an arm if one were lost.. we grew it in the first place after all.. so the dna coding is all there within us.. understanding of the brain can lead to using another location in it to replace a damaged area.. as has actually happened naturally in rare case after accidents.. in other words the blind could see and the deaf could hear..

If we choose to dwell on the optimistic.. then that is exciting to say the least.. the downside personally to me is that it would be around the corner and over the next hill for most of us alive today..

 

[chrispenycate]

Natural evolution is stopped, because there are no natural pressures selecting for characteristics. However, we're aproaching the point where tailored evolution becomes conceivable. Starting, of course, with the detection and elimination of certain genetic disorders (after all, you'd have to be a religious fanatic to consider that a bad thing) followed by programmes to detect- potential for some disease, tendency towards mental instability, probable physical or mental subnormality- unnatural selection. much faster and more directed than the random wild stuff- look how fast we can develope a new breed of dog.
The rich, wishing to give their offspring a head start, will have them equipped with gene sequences shown to be common in individuals gifted in certain ways- some dictator will have his laboratories turn out super soldiers, tireless, conscienceless killers who will ultimatelly. as the Frankenstein legend requires, turn around and kill him.

And humans will be modified to fit into other, less comfortable corners of the universe, to tolerate lack of gravity or high accelleration, breath, eat and drink less pure substances, be able to hibernate or go weeks without sleep, and sub species homo will arise- but I don't think I'll see any of this.

 

[Quokka]

But has natural evolution really stopped? And where is the line between environmental, physical and cultural factors?

There's no doubt that environmental factors have changed but there is still a significant tendancy, cross-cultural though not definative, for females to prefer taller partners (and vice versa) . Will the genetic factors for weight gain/ obesity have an impact on future generations, particularly considering the impact of body fat/ obesity on reproduction?

I agree that tailored evolution is very conceivable but it is still impossible to predict when that research will develop into practical technologies (which has begun for specific examples) and then more importantly for technology to hit the critical mass of affecting overall genetic traits.

Again continuing evolution of the brain is hard to deny.... our environment is changing faster and more dramaticaly than ever, just because it's us causing the changes I'd be hesitant to say that it's all one way traffic.

Just my 2 cents.