How to write a book

[Prefx]

I recieved Stephen King's On Writing. As always, he's blasting away. Brilliant.

 

[cornelius]

I first want to write out my story and worry about that later. I do worry about the extracts I posted on this thread... though they're not good enough for anyone wanting to claim them .I don't know if Ill ever publish it. just writing for fun now, without following any rules or lines on how to write. We'll see how things'll end... I don't think I'll be posting more extracts here, if anyone wants to read more about my writings, just PM me. The last extracts remain unread, so I don't think there'll be many of you wanting to know how it ends. If i think of a poem again, I'll post it.

my book can be seen on three sites, but all of them lack users ( last visit was may 2005), so in theory people could leach it all down there.

I'll just see to it when the problem comes...

 

[Rosemary]

I have read many books on the correct way to write, how to create characters and their traits and various other advise. Books that have described how many re-drafts a particularly famous author did for a particular book. How many years of research another author took before he began writing his first draft.

Even though I do not write books, I have found these encouraging and instructive books very interesting. One particular hint helped when I was composing an account of my childhood which eventually was included in a published book. I felt very happy with that achievement!

 

[the_faery_queen]

i don't like these, how to write books. i think that everyone does things differently. i didn't plan my novel when i started, it just went where it wanted, and it came out fine enough to be accepted for publication! i do know my characters well tho. i think that in writing, these books help, if you need them. but i think they also run the risk of leading to lots of books all fairly similiar with no experimentation.

the only books i consider useful are the, how to submit to agents/publisher type things.

best way to prove ownership, is to send your written work to yourself as an attatchement to yourself via email, because then it is dated and can act as a form of proof. its also good if your pc goes down and you lose stuff!

 

[PenDragon]

I dont know of any authors who had to be schooled in the subject before writing.

Jay McInerney was taught by Raymond Carver, Hemingway said that he taught Ezra Pound how to box, and Ezra taught him how to write.

I'll just wade in and play devil's advocate, on the whole 'can writing be taught?' issue.

Of course one of the best ways to learn is to....

Read, Read, Read,
Write, Write, Write,
Rewrite, Rewrite, Rewrite,
and Submit, Submit, Submit!

However, there is a tradition of established writers mentoring younger less experienced writers.

The reason this mentoring works is because 'there's no need to re-invent the wheel'. You might work things out for yourself eventually but a good mentor can help you to speed up the proccess. Meaning in practical terms, you'll produce publishable prose quicker than working it all out for yourself.

A few people have suggested 'you might be taught how to write but if you have no imagination or nothing to say what's the point?'

Fair enough, personally I think ideas are the easiest part of writing and imagination something that is often overestimated. I've got 43 story ideas ready to go. Ideas are easy, it's turning them into work editors want to pay you to publish, people want to pay to read, that's difficult. Imagination, even with raw talent, unless honed and focused, doesn't get you that far.

If you are a good writer, a good teacher, will make you a better writer.

As for books on the craft of Writing, we're writers, we love reading don't we? It's also a tradtion that goes back to classical antiquity, after all Plato's Poetics is basically the world's oldest 'How to Write' book.

As Kelpie said, books on writing aren't a short cut, you have to put in the work, but if you take just one useful peice of knowledge from every 'How to Write' book you read you've gained something. After all, writing is a hard and very competitive business and anything that gives you an edge has to be good.

If I wanted to be argumentative or contraversial, I would say those that consider themselves above being taught or learning from books, are in most cases lazy, unwilling to work on their craft, and unlikely to have a future as writers ... but I wouldn't say that becuase I'm neither argumnentative or contraversial. Oh no sir, not me. Honest.

 

[evanescentdream]

Personally, I don't believe that anything involved with language can be taught; it can only be learned. For years teachers have been "teaching" my peers about grammar and syntax, and I am involved now in a creative writing class. There is no true exchange of information. Of course, people can be critized (construnctively, of course), which helps here and there. But in the long run writing is something one teaches oneself. The only way to get a true feel for English, for reading and for writing, is to simply read and write. Practical knowledge, empirical knowledge is virtually without worth. The skills required to ride a bike can be pounded into a kid's head when he is young, but when it comes time for him to ride the bike, he will fail. Unless he rides the bike and becomes familiar with it, he'll never use it skillfully. The same goes for art---including writing.

If only teachers could realize this...

 

[PenDragon]

The skills required to ride a bike can be pounded into a kid's head when he is young, but when it comes time for him to ride the bike, he will fail. Unless he rides the bike and becomes familiar with it, he'll never use it skillfully. The same goes for art---including writing.

If only teachers could realize this...

Hi evanescentdream, I'm not sure your analogy stands up.

Do you mean a child taught the theory of bike riding (without access to a bike) from books and by teachers, won't be able to ride a bike when he first encounters one in real life?

That might be correct, but nobody teaches anyone to ride a bike like this. (strange parents if they do) You learn on stabilizers first and then, when the stabilizers come off, with your 'teacher' helping you to get going before you go it alone.

Riding a bike is a physicall skill, writing isn't, theory can help improve a writers craft. If you don't understand 'craft', you won't be producing any 'art'. Your analogy suggest learning can only come from doing, that is one way to learn but not the only way.

Of course, you have to do the work, you have to get words on paper. Ray Bradbury said you have to write a million words of **** before you produce anything worth reading. Craft books and teachers won't make a difference if you don't do the work. However, a good teacher, a good book on craft will help you to improve. There is a lot to learn, writing is hard work, a lot to understand.

A good teacher can help a beginner progress. Help them understand Show vs Tell, which will improve their writing, help them understand the concept of cliche and stock phrases, eliminating these will improve a new writers work.Teaching can help new writers to understand theme/premise a good grasp of this will improve a students writing, other macro elements such as plot, characterisation, voice, POV and Tense, dialogue, pace, openings and endings, mood and tone. Or micro elements like sentence structure, paragraphing, word choice, beats, active vs passive, verbs & nouns vs adverbs & adjectives. Lots to learn, that can be taught, or you can teach yourself from books.

This is my experience, as a beginner who has learnt a lot in a short space of time both from teachers and a few good craft books.

Still if someone thinks he has nothing to learn, then he can't be taught.

If only students could realize this...

 

[jackokent]

I use to teach music and I strongly believe that learning and natural ability are 2 sides of the coin. To do well I think both are essential and those writers or musicians who appear to have born brilliant are in effect thier own, often very structured and rigorous teachers. Ok they may not have had formal tutition but I am just as sure they didn't learn their skills in a vacume. They listenned, they subciousiously filtered, they copied, tested and they studied even if this process was utterly informal. I don't therefore see any harm in formalising this process as it may have saved them time in reaching thier achievement. So saying, some formal types of tuition can stiffle achievemnt just as easily. It really depends on the standard and indiviual learning style of the student.

Then there is natural talent. I think formal, technical skill is only going to get you so far... if you are lucky, like me it will teach you enough to know if you do have that underlying talent. I didn't which is why I was a teacher not a performer.

I would presonally grab as much advice from as many sources as I can. After all, you can always discard it if you think it's rubbish and even if it's just common sense, it's amazing how often that can get overlooked.

Just some thoughts.

 

[mosaix]

Interesting. I see there are some posts suggesting the format of submissions - double spacing , character size etc.

There is only ONE correct format for submission and it's the format that the publisher you are submitting to wants.

Ask them, look it up on their web site. But find out, don't assume.

 

[kyektulu]

One peice of advice I read in a 'how 2 write' book was 2 never use identical twins as this becomes confusing.
Yet I have read several books with non-identical twins and identical twins.
I dont want to use twins in the novel I am currently writing but I am wondering if anyone else is planning, or already incorperating identical twins in thier book?
Also if they are finding this confusing, I honestly cannot see how this would be confusing.

 

[PenDragon]

The only problem I could see with identicle twins is if they were used as a cheap trick. F'rex the character investing a mystery sees x go somewhere and do somthing, but then X truns up somehwere else, Leaving the reader scratching her head going how? Only revealing ahh, but it wasn't x it was really his identical twin y. Now you could do this to confuse your hero as long as the reader is in on the secret, that's dramatic irony, howver keeping stuff from the reader is just cheap.

I planned to write a fantasy story about triplets. It might get confusing for other characters in the story, but I can't see how it could be confusing for readers when each triplet will have his own distinctive name that readers can see on the page.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Mosaix, double spacing, 12 point Courier, 1-1.25" margins, is the standard format that all professional print publishers want and expect. There is no way that an author could go wrong with that format.

Electronic submissions for online publications or e-books may be different, I wouldn't know about that -- as I assume it might be for in-house publications -- but where sending out hard copy is concerned, any other format is a sure sign of inexperience -- which would apply to the publisher as well as the writer.

kyektulu, that advice to never use identical twins as characters is ... bizarre. I think you are right to distrust it. The only way that I could see twins being a problem would be if the names were too much alike (which can confuse readers whether the characters are twins or not).

 

[Patrick Mahon]

Kyektulu,

Since I am an identical twin, I'm biased . But I'd say that there's no reason why putting identical twins in a story is necessarily confusing. As others have said, don't do it if it's just a gimmick. But if they're there for a reason, go right ahead. IMHO the use of twins may be a valid way to investigate the nature vs nurture debate, which I personally find very interesting these days in light of the recent advances in mapping the human genome etc.

Sorry, going off topic.

 

[kyektulu]

I think the best use of twins in a story were Raistlin and Caramon Majere in Dragonlance novels.
They were non identical but each had thier own individual characteristics that made you really connect with them.

To be honest I cannot think of any other use of twins in fantasy books I have read.

 

[wolfam]

Just write hard and you can always edit it later, at school a poet said when you write do it on once side of a double page and on the other sideyou can re-write the line with the edited bits.
Hope i've helped

 

[AaronAgassi]

An extensive free online fiction writing reference, integrated into an open collaborative workshop: Creative Fiction Writing Brainstorming Kit Online, how-to, collaborative workshops, facilitation, all FREE! And more...

 

[Lanista]

Mosaix, double spacing, 12 point Courier, 1-1.25" margins, is the standard format that all professional print publishers want and expect. There is no way that an author could go wrong with that format.

Unless the publisher requests it Times New Roman on their submissions guidelines, then you've just gone and pee'd them off.

There is only ONE correct format for submission and it's the format that the publisher you are submitting to wants.

is the right advice as far as I'm concerned. If they haven't provided that information, then yes, the parameters Teresa describes are acceptable. But you should always check first because it feels like (though its not the case) that agents and publishers are just looking for an excuse to file your work in the round cabinet under the desk.

You should always check these things out and don't just assume that the "standard" is what a given publisher wants.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Unless the publisher requests it Times New Roman on their submissions guidelines, then you've just gone and pee'd them off.

Actually, I don't think so. If your manuscript is up to professional standards, and it's the sort of story they generally publish, they're not going to be angry because you've missed some unusual rule in their submissions guidelines. Not that I think a large publishing firm (the sort I was talking about) would specify Times New Roman when the industry standard is Courier. That sounds like a personal choice by a small company where one individual is reading all the manuscripts.

But you are right about one thing: Agents and editors are not looking for excuses to reject manscripts. They are looking for reasons to accept them. They don't make any money off of rejections.

 

[Lanista]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. One should take the time to read guidelines when they are presented, and I think it's pretty irresponsible alluding that an unpublished author doesn't have to bother because the industry standard is courier 12pt.

Also, a unpublished author has a better chance in some cases of working with small press than a major publisher. It's like anything else - once you're "in" and have a working relationship with your House then of course you are allowed some liberty.

Also, it's common courtesy to abide by a guideline - they've been written for a reason, so you should at least show that you've bothered to take a look at them.

So yes, whilst they're probably not going to chuck your work in the bin if its of a decent standard, I still think it would be pretty arrogant assumption by a prospective writer to just ignore what a small press has requested because they're a small press.

And yes, whilst publishers are looking to accept MS's, they also recieve a lot of dross, so if a person can't be bothered to even adhere to a simple guideline, then they're not doing themselves any favours. Who knows what mood the slush reader is in when your MS arrives. She might think "this guy hasn't even bothered to read the guidelines, screw him" and put your story on the wrong footing from the start.

So - read guidelines, do what is requested would be my advice. You're not going to hurt your chances by doing what a publisher has asked for and it is a professional courtesy to adhere to what is requested. I'd be pretty gutted if my book was rejected because it landed on the desk of the guy who thought guidelines were important, and I'm pretty confident that if I called him said "but it's the industry standard" I wouldn't get very far *lol*

Cheers

L

 

[Ursa major]

Unless you're book is set in stone (which I find unlikely), whatever you send will be the current state. And given that, it might as well be identified as that which you sent to a particular agent or publisher. And given it's unique, I can't see what's wrong with meeting that particular publisher's/agent's guidelines.

In the commercial world, tenders must be responded to in the manner in which the potential customer requires. If they demand you say Compliant by MM/YY, that's what you have to say. Now in the work I used to do a few years back, most of these tenders come from a small number of likely candidates, themselves large companies. Even so, the responses met the guidelines, for as Lanista said, you don't know what the reaction to non-compliance might be.

The writing world is full enough of rejections; to court another one seems foolish.