Favorite POV

[Boaz]

Assuming Shae is still alive...

I was thinking to myself, what if Shae was not Tyrion's woman nor Tywin's spy, but Vary's little bird? She seduced Tyrion and perhaps Tywin as well... would'nt it appeal to Varys' sense of humor to use her on Jaime also? If Jaime has turned a new leaf and decided to be the man of honor that he dreamed of as a kid, well, Shae could be a helpless damsel that needs saving... Shae proved adept at consoling Tyrion through his psychological and physical wounds and perhaps she could do the same for Jaime. Or Jaime could take her just to spite Cersei.

When Shae met Tyrion she was about 19 years old, correct? If Princess Rhaenys (Rhaegar's eldest child) had survived the sack of King's Landing, she be the same age as Shae. Has anyone ever discussed this possibility? If Shae was alive and if she was Rhaeny, that would make for an intriguing POV.

 

[Culhwch]

God, I would be sooooooooooooooo annoyed if Shae wasn't dead. And I think that Rhaenys is also dead. Her body was presented by Tywin to Robert, and as a recent Hand, Tywin would know her, as I imagine others (Ser Barristan for one, Varys, Pycelle...) would. And even if Tywin had taken Rhaenys for some reason (am just guessing this is the argument you'd start at this junction, Boaz, tell me I'm wrong...) there is no way he could persuade/control every one of these others into keeping the secret iron-clad for fifteen years....

 

[Boaz]

I have no evidence to back up any assertions I've made. Unfounded conjecture and ridiculous guesswork just come natural to me.

I kinda liked Shae, she reminded me of an ex-girlfriend...

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

God, I would be sooooooooooooooo annoyed if Shae wasn't dead.

Likewise. Shae and Ygritte couldn't die fast enough for me.

I think I'm just picky about who my favorite characters end up with- Tyrion needs a woman with brains who isn't simply after his Lannister heritage (money), and Jon needs a woman who isn't an ignorant mountain-hag.

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

Likewise. Shae and Ygritte couldn't die fast enough for me.

I agree. One more "you know nothing Jon Snow" or "My Lannister Lion" and Id have gone Gregor Clegane on them!

 

[Boaz]

Come on, when you hear the urgent pleading of "my lion of Lannister", soft breath on your neck, and well you can guess the rest... then you feel like you are a lion, king of the bedroom, king of the world. There's not a better feeling in the world at that moment.

Tyrion's father always made him feel inadequate at the best and guilty of matricide at the worst.

Tyrion's sister always made him feel unworthy and scorned.

Tyrion's brother always made him feel special, yet always dependent upon Jaime.

Joffrey was out to kill Tyrion.

Myrcella and Tommen were the only ones to see past his physique and see his love for them, but the love of a niece and nephew are not enough for a man.

Shae made Tyrion feel like a man worthy of love, acceptance, reward, and responsibility; like a man capable of really having a deep and commited relationship; like a man who could fulfill a woman's needs; she made him feel like a husband.

In the end she betrayed him to the core of his being, but it was good for Tyrion while it lasted.

There is a song by Garth Brooks called The Dance and I think it fits Tyrion's relationships with Tysha and Shae very well.

Looking back on the memory of
The dance we shared beneath the stars above
For a moment all the world was right
How could I have known you'd ever say goodbye

And now I'm glad I didn't know
The way it all would end the way it all would go
Our lives are better left to chance
I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance

Holding you I held everything
For a moment wasn't I the king
But if I'd only known how the king would fall
Hey, who's to say, you know I might have changed it all

And now, I'm glad I didn't know
The way it all would end the way it all would go
Our lives are better left to chance
I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance

Yes my life is better left to chance
I could have missed the pain but I'd of had to miss the dance

PS - Betcha can't guess which POV is my fav?

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Shae made Tyrion feel like a man worthy of love, acceptance, reward, and responsibility; like a man capable of really having a deep and commited relationship; like a man who could fulfill a woman's needs; she made him feel like a husband.

She made him feel like exactly what he was paying for her to make him feel. She was just a really good whore. Obviously he was foolish for falling for the act, but the pity scale takes a definite dip in his favor. But that's the thing about Tyrion's POV- as the reader and not the character, I didn't fall for the ruse there. I knew the entire time she was braying that nonsense about him being her lion and giant and all that rubbish that she was simply earning her keep and didn't give a fig about him. And as Tyrion got more and more emotionally involved with Shae and drew confidence from her, the more I hated her. Yes, she was a whore and yes, she was doing her job. Those things I can understand. Let's just say that the remarkable thing about GRRM is that he causes me to feel protective of my favorite characters, so when I see potentially dangerous relationships evolving, I'm naturally going to harbor some resentment for people like Shae and Ygritte. Poor Tyrion had had enough pain in his life...

PS- I like that Garth Brooks song as well. Hopefully I won't think of Shae the next time I hear it.

 

[Boaz]

AU, hope I didn't ruin it for you!

I guess that as an older person than you (I am assuming from your pic that I'm old enough to be your father), that sometimes I've wished for peace of mind rather than truth. This is (to me) at the heart of the Tyrion character. He uses his brain in all other situations, but his need for a woman. He preaches to Jon, Bran, Catelyn, Bronn, Varys and others about the virtues of intellect. In effect, he desires to emulate his father. He starts out rational, but soon loses control and begins acting very foolish.

My favortie episode of Star Trek is when Spock goes to Vulcan to see his wife. She manipulates Spock and Kirk into mortal combat. Spock had always been rational, but in the presence of his wife and lover he loses control. He is ready to kill his best (and only friend) to keep his woman. Spock's veneer of cold calculation crumbles beneath the weight of his emotions. Those deepest emotions cast aside his need for truth. (I must say that I loved the last scene when Spock gushes his joy at seeing Kirk alive.)

Tyrion is similar to Spock. The mind is a powerful weapon, tool, organ... but it is not the sum total of a human being. When a person represses or denies the healthy outlet of emotions, they often find a way to include it back in their life in an irrational manner. This is foolish, but it can quickly become normal to that person.

Augustine, Clement, Origen, or some other early Church father (iirc) said something to the effect of "The unexamined life is not worth living." What the author meant was that self-introspection is a must. Examination of our own motives, beliefs, and actions will lead to a more satisfying and worthy life. Perhaps it was an ancient Greek playwright who said this; though the main characters in Greek tragedy always know their faults they still fall victim to their faults.

Tyrion works hard to examine his life, yet like a protagonist of a Greek tragedy he sees his flaw and does nothing to change. And even though he knows the relationship will end badly (either because of his father, his sister, Varys, Joff, or Stannis) he'd rather enjoy the moment and the illusion of intimacy and satisfaction.

As a man, sometimes I prefer the illusion of love to the truth.

AU, I hope you don't ever lose your love for truth.

My apologies to the OP.

 

[Duff_Omathum]

Boaz,

I was very impressed with your comparasion of Tyrion and Greek tragedy, the insights into rationality vs. irrationality were supurb, as were the almost phychoanalytical observations of Tyrion's nature. But, what trully proved your intelectual prowess to me, was the Star-Trek analogy! That, my friend, is the stuff doctorites in UCLA are made of!

 

[Boaz]

Now, Duff, I don't know if you are laughing with me or at me! A post containing a fantasy novel, Greek tragedy, early Christian fathers (but, it may have been Socrates), and Star Trek on the topic of a man's need for illusion over truth... and the poster had the nerve to be serious... oh, yeah, that's me!

I'm glad some people call me on my opinions, sometimes my megalomania really kicks in.

And did you get your doctorate at UCLA?

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

AU, hope I didn't ruin it for you!

You certainly did not ruin it for me, Boaz. No worries. And I do look younger than I am. Most people assume that I'm between 16 and 18, but I'm really 24. (I know, I know, it's a good thing but it gets old fast when people my age and younger talk down to me ).

AU, I hope you don't ever lose your love for truth.

In that respect, Boaz, I'm a lot like you and Tyrion when it comes to my own life. I'm just a hardass when it comes to the lives of my characters.

 

[donel noye]

my fav has got to be jon snow i just love to hear about the nights watch and woundering whats going to happen in there fight with the others for the same reason i also like samwells povs but jon is still top of my list,also tyrion has to be mentioned i just love it when he comes up with some cunning and twisted scheme. and i also miss reading about the king in the north in catlayns povs but it will be weird to read about catlayn as this sort of zombie thing she has become

 

[Boaz]

Here's an excerpt from the new Zombie Catelyn chapter...

The man stumbled into the house. That would not save him. She heard her new friends hoot behind her. "Run all you want, Frey! She's coming for you!"

The door caved in after her second punch. She could not eat wood, she needed something softer and warmer... and there it was cowering in a corner. Though she could no longer make human noises, one word formed on her lips and the terrified man read it plain as plain.

"Braaaaiiinnnnsssss!"

 

[Florian the Fool]

"Braaaaiiinnnnsssss!"

I would make a gag here about Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now" playing in the background, but I don't know if you guys have seen Shaun of the Dead or not.

If you have, please feel free to laugh hysterically at my rapier wit. If you haven't, go rent it. It's fab.

As to favourite POV, I'm very tempted to say Tyrion, but I think that's just because he's my favourite character and he makes me laugh. My favourite POV may actually be Daenerys; even though I find her kind of annoying, we get to see so many fantastic and exotic locations and people.

 

[Gazz]

Jaime Lannister, easily.

Simply because when George Martin introduces him to us, we realise that he IS actually a truly good knight, its simply that his manners and demeanour are so far removed from it that we lose sight of it.



*** SPOILER ***







The ironic line when he rescues a certain character from death is one of my favorites, highlighting Martins ability to look at sterotypes as ludicrous, while making his character secretly, ironically, one and the same!

"I only rescue maidens."

 

[ChasenFate]

My favorite POV is Arya. She is my favorite, the way she kept trying to get back to her mom. Sansa seemed to have given up on everything. Arya was so defiant in her own way. I also liked Robb, but alas he is no longer. I think my other favorite is Tyrion. To be honest, I like them all. There are some like Theon who are not as good as others, but I don't mind reading them. My favorite thing Martin does is make you hate someone, i.e. Jamie and then you start thinking after reading a few of his POV's he isn't that bad, the next thing you know you like him a lot. I hope the Frey's get their just desserts. I would like for someone to bring the doom down on them.

 

[mad1]

<<<<<<SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lord Snow would have to be my favorite, because of the mystery and intrigue
concerning his character.Is he really the illegitimate son of ned stark or really the ******* of the mad king? will he ever find out?
And will it be howland reed with maybe benjen stark who finaly pop out of the marshlands to finaly reveal the truth?

Can he truly serve stannis and lead the nightwatch, and how will stannis and melisandre react when they discover he has sent mance rayder's newborn son and maester aemon with samwell to oldtown, what will be the consequences of that?

Will Tyrion or the blackfish head north to join lord snow?
Or will they head across the sea?

And now that winter has arrived what will happen when the 'others' come.
Will they fight them on the wall or will the nightswatch be pushed
south, and if so will Jon have to make a decision wether to take up the claim
as the lord of winterfell and become a Stark?

The options open to Mr Martin are almost endless, god bless him.
Then there is Daenerys, will they join forces when she finaly arrives on the shores of westeros?
And will he recieve another pet, this time a dragon to join his other two.He does seem to be accumilating them.
And if he and daenerys happen to be related, might they become lovers' just like the Targaryen's of old?

In the end l love them all, but sometimes you just love one a little more than the other.

 

[Culhwch]

<<<<<<SPOILERS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lord Snow would have to be my favorite, because of the mystery and intrigue
concerning his character.Is he really the illegitimate son of ned stark or really the ******* of the mad king? will he ever find out?
And will it be howland reed with maybe benjen stark who finaly pop out of the marshlands to finaly reveal the truth?

There's a new theory... Jon as Aerys's *******, and Benjen somehow transported to the Neck. Care to expand on the 'how's at all?

 

[mad1]

sorry l got King Aerys mixed up with Rhaegar, l should check my facts before writing.

big smack across the back of my head.

And with Benjen Stark l do feel there is more to come in that tale and who knows

where he might reappear, though l did throw that maybe in just to stir the pot.

 

[Thunk]

I have to say Jaime. I like how he's sort of reformed from how he was originally, and how he seems the most human.