[SPOILERS] AFfC General Discussion

[Culhwch]

Moving on: I think that the Manderly's have joined with Stannis for the time-being only. Their goal: to bring down the Boltons, who betrayed their King. As for Davos, IIRC he is no longer on good terms with Stannis, so why would he be sent as an envoy for him?

It was Davos's idea to head to the North and battle the Others, Arya, so I think they may have kissed and made up.... But I'm with you, I think the Manderleys are on Stannis's side, or at least against Bolton, and that Davos engineered his own 'execution'.

So- are we all thinking that Quentyn is Daario Nohaeris?

I have no recollection who Daario Nohaeris is.... Refresher, please?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I have no recollection who Daario Nohaeris is.... Refresher, please?

Good looking guy with blue hair that Dany thinks is a "bit of alright"

 

[Culhwch]

Context? He's not the one who is the leader of the Second Sons or the Storm Crows, is he?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Context? He's not the one who is the leader of the Second Sons or the Storm Crows, is he?

Yup, 'fraid so. Storm Crows, I think. He killed the leaders of the other 2 mercenary companies to allow Dany to 'win' her current throne.

 

[Culhwch]

Ahhhhhhh. In that case....

I had the impression that he was a lot older than Quentyn would be. I imagined him as about thirty or older. I don't see how Quentyn, as Daario, would have been able to work his way up the ranks of the Storm Crows so quickly to become joint leader, and then just luckily be in the path of Dany's force.

So, no, I'm not thinking that, Arya.

EDIT: WS, didn't he kill his co-captains of the Storm Crows, and then turn the Crows on the Second Sons?

 

[napthali]

Great observations..I definitely have to reread this entire series...including AFFC


:applause: :applause: on the Salleras/Alleras bit..

Petyr mentions the order of the kingdom not surviving 3 queens..have we figured out who they are? Cersei, Margaery, Dany? Does Margaery really count as a Queen? I would not mind having a Margaery POV..I want to if she's got some thorns..


Do you guys think the title was a bit misleading? I expected to see more action from the Wall. Or is there some other connection I'm missing?

 

[napthali]

Arya seemed to be getting mighty comfortable with offing people. Do you think she needed that lesson to prevent her from becoming a heartless killer?

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Arya seemed to be getting mighty comfortable with offing people. Do you think she needed that lesson to prevent her from becoming a heartless killer?

What lesson was that? If you mean getting caught killing that Night's Watch oathbreaker, I don't think she regrets the deed - just being caught!

And you have a point about the title - remember the title for all the future books is already known, as has been since the end of Clash of Kings (I think) so I don't think he was able/inclined to change it.

The future titles are (and I just know I'll get them wrong)
A Dance with Dragons
A Time of Wolves
The Winds of Winter

I'm not sure about the order of the last 2 as A Time of Wolves was the new book (originally only 6 books in the series, now 7) and I'm pretty sure its the one before the last one, now.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Do you guys think the title was a bit misleading? I expected to see more action from the Wall. Or is there some other connection I'm missing?

Nope, I think the title was right on. It wasn't referring to the men of the Night's Watch, but actually to crows. Westeros is basically just a big battlefield at this point. Strife reigns. People are starving, casting aside all loyalties, turning on each other, dying in large numbers, and- worst of all, perhaps- Winter is coming, and the land is completely unprepared to deal with it. This is a time when evil men, the carrion crows of the human race, as it were, will feast, preying on the weak.

 

[Boaz]

AFFC to me means that everything is dead or dying... people, crops, livestock, animals... and winter signals a time of death for nature also. So the scavengers, The Crows, have plenty to eat... Littlefinger, the Greyjoys, and the Lannisters are the main crows imo. The Tyrells are also among the crows, yet the Greyjoys are picking on them. Now the common folk, have nothing to sustain them, they wander to and fro looking for some still ripe parts of the harvest to live on... yet they are driven off by the crows. These people have become The Sparrows.

 

[TK-421]

AFFC is also the beginning of the end for the Lannister's tenneous grip on power. We see that in the vaccum left in the aftermath of Tywin's death, the follies of Cersei, Jaime and Kevan's refusal to become Hand, Tyrion's escape and constant "haunting" of Cersei and her ultimate downfall (although I would not count her down and out completely yet..). GRRM is setting up Dany's arrival quite nicely and I think that apart from Dorne and Highgarden, there will be many other houses that will rally to her (including the Wall I hope). Now what to do about Stannis and Melissandre?? Guess well just have to wait folks until the next book is out.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I personally don't see Dany coming back until maybe the last book or so. Remember the Shadowbinder Quaithe who said she must go east to go west and go south to go north? I'm hoping for some cool exploits in Asshai or other exotic locales.

 

[napthali]

AFFC to me means that everything is dead or dying... people, crops, livestock, animals... and winter signals a time of death for nature also. So the scavengers, The Crows, have plenty to eat... Littlefinger, the Greyjoys, and the Lannisters are the main crows imo. The Tyrells are also among the crows, yet the Greyjoys are picking on them. Now the common folk, have nothing to sustain them, they wander to and fro looking for some still ripe parts of the harvest to live on... yet they are driven off by the crows. These people have become The Sparrows.

this makes sense.you've sold me

 

[DeannaBelle]

I'm telling you, the Hound lives... although he may be a changed man.

I would love that. Although I feel "safer" if he and other characters were dead, it was always my hope (since he told Sansa about his evil brother the night of the Hand's tourney) that he would repent and accept forgiveness... However, I wasn't ready for him to dish forgiveness to his brother.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Hmmm. You argue a good case, LoW. Then there's the fact that I've been saying he's dead for the last five years, so that would also point to his being alive...

That's vunny - you sound like Dolorous Edd.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Blackfish, I disagree that Arya earlier POVs were just "fillers." In her earliest books, she saw and revealed a lot about the nature of other characters. Then she started wondering and continuing to develope and "train," albiet unknowingly.

Also, I don't think Arya will cease to be a Stark. Her wolf is lost as she is lost. Sansa, however... Well, her wolf's been killed off. And yes, Sansa is beginning to THINK as if she were Alayne. Creepy.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Could Varys be an ex-Unsullied? I can't remember his description or where he's from.

 

[DeannaBelle]

Asdar, I think remember Arya thinking about her moter when she chose the name.

We all agree Catelyn was a bitc to Jon and obnoxious in other ways, but to her children she was their mother. She was really only a bitch to... Jon (before she was ressurected or whatever, of course).

 

[DeannaBelle]

If Sansa remembers her roots, she'll forget how to play the game... ie. she'll lose badly like her whole family did.

I think that Baelish knows that he is the master player and he'll think he can anticipate all of Sansa's moves regarding him. Sansa will have to become the Columbo of players to throw Baelish off the scent. If she can get him to completely underestimate her, then she might stand a chance, if not... he'll see her coming a mile away.

Maybe not. Littlefinger actually convinced himself he slept with Cat. then we find out it was her sister, but he called her "Cat," completely deluding himself.

SOmeone above said his demise may come through his conflicting emotions. I think that will happen with Sansa. She may be able to play him.

However, as that same person asked, what will she do when he makes his inevitable passes. discusting to even think about. Maybe she can respond with "Oh, father, remember? I am your DAUGHTER!"