What would you Class as Classic Fantasy

As you describe it, your work sounds solidly midlist to me, Gary.

Mind you, I know several midlist writers who make a comfortable steady living at their writing, love what they do, are respected by their peers, and lead an all around pleasant and useful life -- but they aren't changing the face of fantasy, and therefore their books are less likely to be recognized as classics than certain other books that make more noise in the world.

And I think it needs to be said that innovation is not the only form of excellence, even in speculative fiction.
 
I'm not totally sure what mid-list means any longer. Dennis McKiernan?

Innovation has never been the standard of excellence in the literary world. In fact, it seems somewhat odd that we seem to need it so much in fantasy, as if we aren't really writing literature at all, but simply stories to keep people entertained. I don't believe for a minute that we should not entertain, but that's not all we can do.

We judge very quickly in this genre. We set up standards and we expect authors to write to them, when in fact the standards are often products of the times, as opposed to canons of literature. The standards we use often are so arbitrary, but we seem not to be able to see past them. Is this a genre of the fashionable? I suppose sometimes it is, and woe to those who march to a different drummer.
 
Mmmm ... I think McKiernan sells too many books to be considered midlist. Even though people around here don't talk about him much, someone is keeping his titles on the shelves.

But yes, I reckon that you and I both are trying to interest the same readers that read McKiernan -- while telling ourselves (with some truth I hope) that our own works are much better and more original.
 
And I didn't even know you were an author! Silly me. But why don't you use your real name? Please tell me what you write?
 
To see what I write I refer you to my avatar, Gary. I do use the name Madeline Howard over on sff.world. One of these days I will use my real name here, but there are reasons for holding off yet awhile.
 
Well now I know exactly who you are. I had no idea. I did check your avatar before and it came up blank. Maybe I checked the wrong thing. No matter.

Real names are so much easier to deal with. I use mine everywhere except for one site which can't figure out how to change it for me. I set it up long ago and I use my series name there, as I did at SFFworld for a number of years.

I tried the link again and I can't get it to work, though I did see your title. But I knew that already once you told me your name. I just didn't put it together before. I love the title by the way.
 
Actually, a 1980 cut-off is fair enough, since the 90s, and hopefully the 00s have been a time of severe growth and diversity for the genre, I think, making the 80s a sort of cut-off for the earlier works.

I know this a few year late but I think cutting off the classic era in 1980 ? :unsure: There are a number book s published after that might fit the category of Classic post 1980 to consider. The Anubis Gate by Tim Powers written 1983 . This should be considered a classic and so Mythago Woods by Robert Holdstock . written 1984. There other post 80'd books that fit the definition of classic.
 
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When this thread was started who would have called Tad Williams MST "classic" but after the recent surge of new authors like Sanderson and Butcher that doesn't seem far out of the ballpark.
 
Here I'm thinking new thread. Turns out I started it 11 years ago. 20 years time we will be adding Erikson, Sanderson, Rothfuss, Donaldson and the likes to our list of classic authors.
 
Here I'm thinking new thread. Turns out I started it 11 years ago. 20 years time we will be adding Erikson, Sanderson, Rothfuss, Donaldson and the likes to our list of classic authors.

Its a great thread and still timely even after all of this time.:)
 
I would definitely classify this thread as a "classic" thread even though it was started in this century.
 
My 2c....

I start with the word "classic." It seems to me to imply longevity. A classic has been around long enough to have proven its capacity to appeal to and to reward readers of different generations.

Then there's the matter of "how long"? It seems to me we have to factor in the length of time that a type or genre of literary art has been around. If we want to refer to classic drama, for example, we would be aware that surviving drama of unquestioned literary merit goes back over 2,000 years. This being so it would be (in my view) rather casual to refer to something composed in the past few decades simply as a classic dramatic work. One could add something that reduced the amount of time implied. Thus it would seem fine to me if someone wanted to argue that Miller's Crucible is a classic of American drama. That sets up a much shorter time span. I'd prefer not to refer to The Crucible simply as a classic work of drama in such a way that we were implying it ranks with sophocles and Shakespeare.

So, then, I would suggest that the question posed by this thread is really about classics of modern fantasy (in English). Influenced by Lin Carter, many people would suggest that the genre of modern fantasy begins in the late Victorian period with the romances of William Morris. Let's say we're dealing with a period of about 125 years, then. I would think that we are using the word "classic" rather loosely if we start awarding it to work published in the past few decades. Isn't it a bit premature to say that XXXXXXX by XXXXXXX, published in 198- or 199-, is a "classic"? Personally, I would be willing to characterize Le Guin's Earthsea that ends with The Farthest Shore (1972) as a classic work.

And of course a classic must have literary merit. Surely there's no question about that as regards these Earthsea books.

Again--that's my 2c. If others disagree, okay, but could they explain how "classic" may be differentiated from just "my favorite."

Now as regards "classic fantasy era"--

Three periods stand out to me.

1.The 25 years 1887-1912, in which so many classic works (Haggard, Morris, MacDonald, Dunsany, Hodgson, et al.) appeared; this was when science fiction and fantasy weren't really differentiated, and so it includes the best of H. G. Wells, Doyle's Lost World, etc.; it also includes classics of what became known as "dark fantasy," such as Dracula, Blackwood's "Wendigo" and "The Willows," etc.; this was the Golden Age

2.The approximately 20 years between the appearance of The Hobbit and the final Narnian book (1937-1956, I think), which would include LotR, the T. H. White Arthurian books (I'm not sure I will find those to have held up well if I return to them), Unknown magazine, The Dying Earth, etc. Tolkien dominates this period.

3.The approximately 10 years in the late 1960s-early 1970s that includes the Earthsea books, The Last Unicorn, Watership Down, etc. This would also include as a notable event the Ballantine Adult Fantasy series of reprints and new works (1969-1974 or so), if that's relevant. The establishment of fantasy as a distinct paperback publishers' niche dates to this time, it seems to me. In the late 1960s A Wizard of Earthsea or Avram Davidson's The Phoenix and the Mirror could be paperbacked by Ace as a "Science Fiction Special"; but by the end of the period that would be highly unlikely, surely. It was fantasy and publishers knew by then that lots of people would read readily sf but not fantasy, and vice versa.

I offer all of the above for discussion....
 
In my own personal opinion, the Xanth series was a classic, and it maybe still is. I read them from 1977 to around 1987, so I can't vouch for the quality of the more current volumes, but the novels from those first 10 years were entertaining.
 
In my own personal opinion, the Xanth series was a classic, and it maybe still is. I read them from 1977 to around 1987, so I can't vouch for the quality of the more current volumes, but the novels from those first 10 years were entertaining.

Overall I found the Xanth books to be well written and very enjoyable. You could definitely make a case for them being in the category of Classic.:)(y)
 
When this thread was started who would have called Tad Williams MST "classic" but after the recent surge of new authors like Sanderson and Butcher that doesn't seem far out of the ballpark.

Which perhaps illustrates the need for a cut-off point for use of the descriptor "classic"?
Eleven years have passed since this thread started, and maybe that was enough time for some titles that were not "classic" in 2005 -- to have become so by now?
Not sure, just speculating...

Nonetheless, my reaction in general is that I don't call things "classic" until they've passed the test of time -- and from that point of view, I have to question whether some of the titles I would have named so, when I first found them in the 70s-80s, remain "classic" -- simply because they have not "survived" -- that is, they've faded from sight, as it were...
 
I don't know that I would limit the time table. There are books that jump to mind. I know that Terry Brooks' Elfstones series gets quoted often and Tolkien's Silmarilian, The Hobbit, and Lord of the Rings, I would include even the Gor books by John Norman, such as Horse Lords of Gor, Nomads of Gor, etc. Then there is Jennifer Roberson's Chronicals of the Cheysuli, Barbara Hambly's Dragonsbane, Moorcock's Elric series, McCaffrey's Dragonriders books, etc. But there are classic older tales as well, Ibn Fadlan's Beowulf, Burroughs's Mars books, Robert E. Howard's Conan books, Snorri Strudersonn's Poetic Edda's, various Icelandic Saga's, Shakespeare's tales for that matter.

Those are "classic" fantasy stories and tales in my opinion. There are more but I will stop there at the risk of getting myself in trouble. LOL. Plenty of titles already. Take your pick or add on to them.

Cheers!
 
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