Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers

[Narkalui]

The betrayal: I've always seen that as Jon betraying the Wildlings. That is to say, I think the blade is already tempered...

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

The betrayal: I've always seen that as Jon betraying the Wildlings. That is to say, I think the blade is already tempered...

He was never loyal to them though. It was a mission.

 

[Narkalui]

But that's not how the Free Folk see it. Nor Alliser Thorn.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

But that's not how the Free Folk see it. Nor Alliser Thorn.

I don't think that it really matters how they see it. It more matters how Jon saw it.

 

[Narkalui]

A very wise man once said: "In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap and much more difficult to find." In generations to come, assuming humanity wins, the history may very well record that Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch. Ultimately it won't matter how Jon sees it.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

A very wise man once said: "In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap and much more difficult to find." In generations to come, assuming humanity wins, the history may very well record that Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch. Ultimately it won't matter how Jon sees it.

Maybe for the history of theirs, but that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the tampering of Lightbringer for which I assumed betrayal is what really tampers it. I don't think magic cares about what histories say.

 

[Narkalui]

Touche

 

[Narkalui]

Hold on.....

Didn't Jon swear an Oath to Mance Raider?

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Hold on.....

Didn't Jon swear an Oath to Mance Raider?

Does it matter since he did it in line of duty and never intended to keep it? Jon would have to betray something that truly held him.

 

[Narkalui]

Ygritte?

 

[Dan Jones]

The risks of entering a thread late.

Can anyone condense the previous 46 pages of conversation into one handy, bite-sized paragraph please?

Jon Snow is INNOCENT!!!!

 

[Koopa]

Yada yada yada... Jon Snow lives... Yada yada yada... He might be dead.... Yada yada yada ... Melisandre this, ghost that, other resurrection shemes.... Yada Yada Yada ...betrayed by NW.... Yada yada yada...He betrayed them first... Yada yada yada... People will think this.... Yada yada yada... Jon snow is a whiny little.... Yada yada yada... Jon Snow is the coolest.... Yada yada yada ... He's AA... Yada yada yada ... He's the Prince that was Promised.... Yada yada yada ... Wall will fall....Yada yada yada Jon Snow is played by Kit Harrington and he and the producers are saying this, and did you notice his eyes turned a different colour in his dead scene on the show... Wait, was that said in this thread... Yada yada yada old KiwiBird is going mental... all that + other stuff.

 

[Ursa major]

The only tampering with (the fake) Lightbringer has been by Mel making it look as if it's the real one.

How the real Lightbringer will be tempered, goodness (or not) only knows.

 

[viZion]

Probably someone who was weak. Someone who could not fight back effectively. Someone who needed to believe they were touched by the divine...

Shireen and Selyse come to mind, but the TV show leads me to believe neither is a real candidate.

Gilly's son... but then we'd have to wait fourteen years for him to grow up.

Wun Wun. Jon as a giant.... hmmmm. Was his introduction to Mag, his observations, and Ygritte's song only for fleshing out the world or was Martin foreshadowing something? Probably nothing.

Melisandre. Would she fight Jon or believe she was being gifted by R'hllor? Could she accept him and think it made her not just a prophet, but an actual part of a victorious prophecy?

Or maybe just the corpses that are already there in the ice cells that Jon put there himself. Keep it simple.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

The only tampering with (the fake) Lightbringer has been by Mel making it look as if it's the real one.

How the real Lightbringer will be tempered, goodness (or not) only knows.

ahaha Thank you. I didn't even notice that I mistook the words. xD

 

[Boaz]

Big Bear loves his wordplay. Thanks for giving him something to post!

viZ, only the best can keep it simple. That's not me.

 

[Judderman]

He was never loyal to them though. It was a mission.

But he told them he was loyal to them..So yes he did betray them.
Because anyone thinks something they do is correct/lawful doesn't mean it is.

 

[Narkalui]

It's not who I am inside, it's the things that I do that define me...

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

But he told them he was loyal to them..So yes he did betray them.
Because anyone thinks something they do is correct/lawful doesn't mean it is.

No, that's not what I mean. It doesn't really matter from their end. From their end, he betrayed them. From his end, he was never loyal to begin with. Azor Ahai loved his wife. It was a betrayal through and through.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I don't consider AA using his wife's heart to temper his blade a betrayal. He didn't go against her or even betray her trust. She knew what was happening and allowed him to do it. It was a sacrifice on both of their parts, he sacrificed his wife and she sacrificed her life.

And Jon did betray the wildlings. He swore to them that they could trust him, then he went against them. That is betrayal. He may have always planned it, or never meant what he said when he was swearing to the wildlings, but that doesn't make it less of a betrayal. And he feels it too. He struggles with it and I think it is a big reason to why he let the wildlings through the wall, to make up for his betrayal of Mance Rayder, whom he liked and respected.