Sansa

[the smiling weirwood]

Re: Don't hate Cat

I don't understand why everyone is so violently hateful of Sansa. I mean, sure she's a pansy and so far pretty worthless, but at least she hasn't done anything completely stupid like her mother. Maybe it's just me but I sort of liked her starry-eyed idealism, it was like she was the only truly innocent character in the series(except maybe Rickon).

 

[Boaz]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Who hates Sansa? I don't, I love her.

She's not real clever, she does not know how to fight, and she does what she's told.

I wanna marry her.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Re: Don't hate Cat

The only person I want to meet a horrible end more than Cat is Sansa. Call it what you will - motherhood, distress, broken heartedness, whatever. Cat and Sansa deserve a horrific end. I hope meets up with her icy-blue-eyed mama and someone lights them both on fire.
snow

Apparently JohnSnow does

 

[JohnSnow]

Re: Don't hate Cat

I don't understand why everyone is so violently hateful of Sansa. I mean, sure she's a pansy and so far pretty worthless, but at least she hasn't done anything completely stupid like her mother. Maybe it's just me but I sort of liked her starry-eyed idealism, it was like she was the only truly innocent character in the series(except maybe Rickon).

As I have stated in other threads, Sansa is the possibly the most despicable character in the series. Okay, that statement is partially for shock value. But she is in my top five of most hated characters (Catleyn, Robert, Theon, Joffrey, Sansa). My reasons why:

1) She betrays her father, her sister, and the rest of the Stark company by telling Cersei about them trying to sneak back to Winterfell.

2) She lies about what happens between Joffrey, Arya, and Mycah. Leading to the death of Lady and Mycah.

3) She committs the two above acts becuase she thinks she loves Joffrey, a shining example of how she has never had a single intelligent thought in the entire series.

4) She is always dreaming of someone saving her instead of getting her arse out of trouble.

5) She allows herself to be brutally embarrassed by Joffrey and the knights around him as she calls her brother a traitor. If she had half the cajunes of Arya she would have stabbed someone in the crotch and kicked them in the stomach...wait...reverse that.

6)She prances along with Petyr, playing his little daughter. She won't be his daughter for too much longer, pretty soon she will be his...well you know.

Maybe Boaz is right, she should just get married or get employed at a brothel and get it over with.

Just my opinion...

 

[Boaz]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Wow! And I thought I had issues.

 

[foxtrot023]

Re: Don't hate Cat

I don't understand why everyone is so violently hateful of Sansa. I mean, sure she's a pansy and so far pretty worthless, but at least she hasn't done anything completely stupid like her mother. Maybe it's just me but I sort of liked her starry-eyed idealism, it was like she was the only truly innocent character in the series(except maybe Rickon).

aren´t you confusing innocent with stupid. I mean sending the letter to Robb to tell him to come to King Landing to bend the knee, or bretaying her father seem sins worse than those of Cat (which did them mostly for her children´s sake)

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Sansa is just misunderstood...

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Re: Don't hate Cat

aren´t you confusing innocent with stupid. I mean sending the letter to Robb to tell him to come to King Landing to bend the knee, or bretaying her father seem sins worse than those of Cat (which did them mostly for her children´s sake)

Let's not forget how young Sansa is, and how vulnerable she has been ever since things turned sour between her family and the Lannisters. When you were 12 or 13 years old, if you were dragged into the ruling power's office and told that it was in your best interests to write a letter to your brother who was rebelling against them, what would you do? Especially if you were in a country that didn't frown upon torture or execution? And if they held your father in prison for treason?

Can you really fault Sansa for falling prey to Cersei's cruel manipulations? After all, grown men and women have done so. Jaime has done so for many years, starting when he was around Sansa's age, but very few of us condemn him for it. We excuse him, saying it was for love, he didn't know any better. Well, what Sansa has done was shown to her to be in her best interests, and in her family's best interests. She was raised until then in a place that was far removed from courtly intrigues, and far removed indeed from reality.

In her defense, I'd say she's learning as quickly as she can, for someone who only just started to get the bigger picture.

 

[rudycrab]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Also, everyone keeps talking about how Sansa betrayed her family but no one seems to put any blame on Ned for what happened. If you say Sansa's innocence is really stupidity, why not say Ned's honor is also. It is just as much at fault for what happened to the Starks. It was stupid not to seize the royal children the night Robert got injured but honorable Ned didn't want to scare children in bed. I love Ned but his stupid honor damned his daughter to be mentally tortured and beaten by Joffery and his knights for months.

 

[foxtrot023]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Also, everyone keeps talking about how Sansa betrayed her family but no one seems to put any blame on Ned for what happened. If you say Sansa's innocence is really stupidity, why not say Ned's honor is also. It is just as much at fault for what happened to the Starks. It was stupid not to seize the royal children the night Robert got injured but honorable Ned didn't want to scare children in bed. I love Ned but his stupid honor damned his daughter to be mentally tortured and beaten by Joffery and his knights for months.

I agree. Ned should have placed honor aside, and as Robert died he should have seized Cersei and her kids. Renly told him, Littlefinger told him, heck even Cersei told him, the game of thrones- you win or die.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Re: Don't hate Cat

If you say Sansa's innocence is really stupidity, why not say Ned's honor is also.

Indeed. If Ned's honor had not driven him to give Cersei fair warning that night in the garden, the whole mess could have been avoided. Obviously, we can't hate him for it, though. Otherwise we'd just keep going on down the line until we accused humans in general for having emotions and personality traits. Those are pretty stupid things.

 

[foxtrot023]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Let's not forget how young Sansa is, and how vulnerable she has been ever since things turned sour between her family and the Lannisters. When you were 12 or 13 years old, if you were dragged into the ruling power's office and told that it was in your best interests to write a letter to your brother who was rebelling against them, what would you do? Especially if you were in a country that didn't frown upon torture or execution? And if they held your father in prison for treason?

Can you really fault Sansa for falling prey to Cersei's cruel manipulations? After all, grown men and women have done so. Jaime has done so for many years, starting when he was around Sansa's age, but very few of us condemn him for it. We excuse him, saying it was for love, he didn't know any better. Well, what Sansa has done was shown to her to be in her best interests, and in her family's best interests. She was raised until then in a place that was far removed from courtly intrigues, and far removed indeed from reality.

In her defense, I'd say she's learning as quickly as she can, for someone who only just started to get the bigger picture.

Yes, she is growing and learning, but, even then, compare her to per example- Arya or Danys. Sansa minds was full of knights, tournaments, and lemon pies. She was completely naive.

 

[foxtrot023]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Indeed. If Ned's honor had not driven him to give Cersei fair warning that night in the garden, the whole mess could have been avoided. Obviously, we can't hate him for it, though. Otherwise we'd just keep going on down the line until we accused humans in general for having emotions and personality traits. Those are pretty stupid things.

You can´t really hate Ned, he stood by his principles. The problem is that while everyone else was playing for keeps, he thought that honor and trust would win the day. He was extremely trusting.

 

[rudycrab]

Re: Don't hate Cat

I don't hate Ned. I love Ned but his family suffered for his mistakes. Just as Sansa's did. Naivity just replaced honor. So why hate Sansa for hurting her family and not Ned? A father should be willing to seem dishonorable to protect his children. Some fathers , Jaime, would go even further, on that level I can't fault him for pushing Bran.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Re: Don't hate Cat

Yes, she is growing and learning, but, even then, compare her to per example- Arya or Danys. Sansa minds was full of knights, tournaments, and lemon pies. She was completely naive.

You can compare Sansa to Daenerys and Arya quite a bit, but the fact remains that if their situations were reversed, who's to say that Arya or Dany would not have complied with Cersei's will? Daenerys herself meekly followed the directions of Viserys out of fear, until she realized that by marrying Khal Drogo she had put herself beyond her brother's power. Sansa has not yet been given the opportunity to take the reigns, so to speak. As for Arya, well, we all know that she would have bitten and scratched as much as she could, but she too could have been broken with any sort of threat to her father or her family.

 

[Jinglehopper]

Re: Don't hate Cat

This was a thread about Uncat (I just created a human female warlock named Uncat in WOW in honor of this thread) but we've been sidetracked by Sansa talk. Here's what I have to say about Sansa:

I agree she's been a pawn in the game for so long that it's hard to like her. But AFFK showed us that she is learning (it's about the along thing AFFK did, show us stuff that will be important later). I think she will surprise all of us (even Littlefinger) in how cunning and ruthless she can become. I predict her becoming not unlike Dany and shucking off her protector when she supplants him in power.

But as for Uncat. You can't say she is innocent or free of evil now. The band of merry followers (Lem and co.) have turned down a wicked street. If Thoros of Myr is uncomfortable in what they've become, I think we should be too. And the reason is Uncat's unswavering hatred for those who wronged her in life. (Even though Brienne was probably the only one who truly kept her word to Lady Catelyn).

Ok, enough parentheticals. I'm done.

 

[Niolani]

Re: Don't hate Cat

I think Sansa might have to watch out for Arya, if Arya ever finds out that Sansa revealed Ned's plan to send them away which kickstarted the wipeout of their household, she'll probably be murderously angry.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Okay, I've split the thread in two - this thread for discussion of Sansa.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

I don't know if Arya would kill Sansa. Hopefully by the time they meet up again, they'll be mature enough to forgive each other for mistakes made when they were children.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Why would Arya want to kill Sansa??

Hit her, maybe - but kill her??