Wonder Woman -Joss Whedon Take

[Princess Ivy]

i've always thought Cher could do it, in her younger days.

 

[Carolyn Hill]

Maybe Charisma Carpenter, to keep it in the Joss family?

 

[Cobolt]

the problem with Joss Whedon is his movies are not as successful as his television, Alien 3 was poor, Serenity I have not seen so cannot judge but even the Disney cartoon flick based on treasure island slammed.

I think he should work with a collaborator like the guy from Alias who made MI:3 or stick with what he does best. Television with excellent characters, storylines that grow with eahc episode and pretty good ideas (except season 4 of Buffy and that secret army thing! though HUSH is one of my favourite episodes).

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

Whats the Disney cartoon? I missed that one.

I think he's at least earned the right to give it a try.

 

[Crisspin]

Just a few comments here :

1. Joss and Movies -- If you have not seen Serenity how can you comment on his movies ... Serenity is the ONLY movie he has ever directed and it was very good. He did not direct Aliens 3, it was Aliens 4, and he only wrote it .. it was directed by Jean-Pierre Juenet (his only english language movie). He didn't even write Atlantis, he was brought on to help polish dialogue. He also wrote Toy Story and Titan A.E.

2. Someone commented on Sarah Michelle Geller not being a good actor ... her character was purposefully bubbly and ditzy. She acted that part, and if you watched the show consistency her character and the acting direction she took was far ranged and pretty deep.

3. It has been widely reported that his story will be a beginning story, with a young adult Wonder Woman, probably around 20. I doubt she will be large chested as that is exactly what Wonder Woman is NOT about. It sounds like he is moving away from the obvious top heavy, lets get the geeky boys in the theater with cheesy camp lines and lots of cleavage a la the TV show. Basically the exact same thing they did with the first Batman movie.

4. I sure hope they do move away from the costume in the books. It may look good in a comic panel, but it will simply look trashy on screen.


5. Joss and Wonder Woman Why? Wonder Woman is a female empowerment story. It is a tale and character that seems to fit exactly into Joss's talents. What else was Buffy about but this exact style of writing about strong women. He has basically made his career out of portraying strong and dynamic women.

In conclusion, who knows if it will be any good. But given the directors out there, I don't see many others who I would want to see give it a shot. The story and characters fit his style, he is a fun dialogue writer and has done effects work. Maybe it will suck, but I think his resume lends him enough credit to give it a shot.

 

[Princess Ivy]

just to point out i watched buffy, and enjoyed it. i do understand the character and developement etc... but i've only ever seen her play 'buffy' no matter what film she has been in. based on that i say she can't act.
as for wonderwoman not being well built, i hate to be the one to break it, but she is an amazon, that is exactly how amazons are built. why do women have to be small chested to be considered empowered? that was for me one of the ways in which wonder woman did rock the boat. even in the age of feminism, where women had to be almost ugly, she could embody feminine attrictiveness without being simpering.
yes, wonderwoman is about character and empowerment, but first and foremost it is a superhero action story and should be treated as such. it should look good on screen.
as for wonderwoman being a start out story with her being in her twenties, according to the original scripting, the amazons had terrific longevity, princess diana was at one time enslaved by the greeks with the other amazons, therefore it'd have to be a historical piece to work as such.

 

[Crisspin]

just to point out i watched buffy, and enjoyed it. i do understand the character and developement etc... but i've only ever seen her play 'buffy' no matter what film she has been in. based on that i say she can't act.

Alright, given that I have seen Scooby Doo 1 & 2 I will concede the point

as for wonderwoman not being well built, i hate to be the one to break it, but she is an amazon, that is exactly how amazons are built. why do women have to be small chested to be considered empowered? that was for me one of the ways in which wonder woman did rock the boat. even in the age of feminism, where women had to be almost ugly, she could embody feminine attrictiveness without being simpering.
yes, wonderwoman is about character and empowerment, but first and foremost it is a superhero action story and should be treated as such. it should look good on screen.

I don't disagree .. I was just trying to point out that big boobs should not be the point of the story, nor a specific reason to higher an actress. I don't want to see Pamela Anderson as Wonder Woman. I want a quality actress and think if the movie is done properly it won't matter.

as for wonderwoman being a start out story with her being in her twenties, according to the original scripting, the amazons had terrific longevity, princess diana was at one time enslaved by the greeks with the other amazons, therefore it'd have to be a historical piece to work as such.

True, but I think that is nothing more than adapting a comic book story to the screen. And I think it was more to represent that she is naive about men and the people of earth. Remember that when Trevor first crashes his plane, Diana is still in training with the Amazonians and treated not as a leader, but as a young princess. She has to prove herself first that she is strong enough to go and help the people of "earth" with their World War. That does not mean she did not spend 400 years training, as you are correct and she could be very very old .. I think that is just a way to tell an introductory story which shows that she needs to learn the ways of earth.

 

[Carolyn Hill]

Joss and Wonder Woman Why? Wonder Woman is a female empowerment story. It is a tale and character that seems to fit exactly into Joss's talents. What else was Buffy about but this exact style of writing about strong women. He has basically made his career out of portraying strong and dynamic women.

I agree entirely with this, Crisspin. Joss's strength is in portraying strong women. That gives me great hope for his take on Wonder Woman.

 

[BookStop]

Is Jennifer Garner tall? She's athletic and young looking.

 

[Princess Ivy]

I don't disagree .. I was just trying to point out that big boobs should not be the point of the story, nor a specific reason to higher an actress. I don't want to see Pamela Anderson as Wonder Woman. I want a quality actress and think if the movie is done properly it won't matter.

fair enough, but this is the sort of role where like superman, a certain 'look' is also important. i get very tired of people telling me i can't be 'serious' 'intelligent' etc... just because i look a certain way and as i said before it is one of the more apealing traits of the character.

True, but I think that is nothing more than adapting a comic book story to the screen. And I think it was more to represent that she is naive about men and the people of earth. Remember that when Trevor first crashes his plane, Diana is still in training with the Amazonians and treated not as a leader, but as a young princess. She has to prove herself first that she is strong enough to go and help the people of "earth" with their World War. That does not mean she did not spend 400 years training, as you are correct and she could be very very old .. I think that is just a way to tell an introductory story which shows that she needs to learn the ways of earth.

but then by the same token, back to he costume, that looked great in the TV series.
As for story line, there was a chapter in the books, back pre-crisis days, where diana was challenged to fight for her role. the new wonderwoman won because she concentrated on the tasks at hand and diana went on to save people from the consequesnces of those bodged tasks. the other wonderwoman went to earth and diana couldn't stay behind on paradise island so snuck back for her old life. the new wonderwoman couldn't adjust to life on earth etc...
i've always thought that could be a great storyline for a film.

 

[Princess Ivy]

just one more point, for feminine empowerment, i'd love to see diana get away from her affair with steve trevor. yes i know it was all about turning the old 'damsel in this dress' (looks to title, see's it's still there) stereotypes on their head, but i'd love to see other issues tacled. justbecause it is a female superhero doesn't mean we have to have a 'soft' theme to the film.

 

[Princess Ivy]

Is Jennifer Garner tall? She's athletic and young looking.

and electra.

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

Is Jennifer Garner tall? She's athletic and young looking.

and electra.

***shiver***

 

[McMurphy]

actually the costume has changed. the original costume had an eagle in gold on the chest, wonder woman was awarded the new suite with the WW logo by a womens organisation (can't remember when). the very original costume did in fact have a cape, also there was a swimming wet suit. as for the costume not looking good on film, i think linda carter would be argument for the original! i always thought she looked great.
i'm very much looking forward to the new film. i want to see if they continue the 'breaking free' graphic metaphors from the series. Also to see how they do on continuity, in costume that would include the bracelets, more than bullet repelents, in the original series, if an amazon lost her bracelets, she went mad. Which wonder woman will they use? the squeeky cleen dina prince? or the more gritty feminist from post crisis universe? also will they give her a decent villian? the original tv series was plagued with woefully underpowered 'bad guys'. i'd love to see someone like circlel, powerful female, for the job.

No, actually, the costume has stayed remarkably the same since 1942. Sure, there has been slight variations here and there, but nothing that has added up to an actual visual difference. Of course, one must note that in the realm of main stream comics, there has been some gimmick storylines that have altered the suit to sell a few more issues that month, but it has always reverted back to the original. Below are two images. The first one: an issue cover from 1942. The second: an image from 2006. There is an amazing difference in artistic style, but, for all intents and purposes, the costume is the same.

What Joss is suggesting to do is completely redesign the costume...not tweek symbols and leggings length within the same inlay.

 

[Princess Ivy]

No, actually, the costume has stayed remarkably the same since 1942. Sure, there has been slight variations here and there, but nothing that has added up to an actual visual difference. Of course, one must note that in the realm of main stream comics, there has been some gimmick storylines that have altered the suit to sell a few more issues that month, but it has always reverted back to the original. Below are two images. The first one: an issue cover from 1942. The second: an image from 2006. There is an amazing difference in artistic style, but, for all intents and purposes, the costume is the same.

What Joss is suggesting to do is completely redesign the costume...not tweek symbols and leggings length within the same inlay.

may seem like hair splitting, but it is a change to the costume. quite frankly, if batman gets slightly bigger ears there is a world wide outcry over the desicration of the costume, don't minimilise the change to wonder womans costume it was well thought out and really meant something. especially if you remember that her costume was designed by the gods! i've been dedicated to wonderwoman for years (no not the 'greatest fan' but i've always thought she was great), in fact i still have the issue where she is given the new breast plate somewhere safe. it is very special to me.
in the traditional books her costume was made up of : the boots of hermes, girdle of geaia, breastplate of hipolita, magic lasso (part of the girdle) and the tiara (which i can't remember offhand) which also doubled as a symbol of her princessness. the bracelets as i've already mentioned, were a remnant of the amazonian slavery to men.
wow, in checking that up, i hope joss has a good explanation for her new cossie

 

[Princess Ivy]

wonder woman's battle armour

 

[Princess Ivy]

http://department.monm.edu/alphaxidelta/AXD Info/AXD Info_files/LindaCarter.jpg

and the original tv costume incorporating a cloak (as proof that with the appropriate stature, it looks great.)

 

[McMurphy]

Marston's Artemis

may seem like hair splitting, but it is a change to the costume. quite frankly, if batman gets slightly bigger ears there is a world wide outcry over the desicration of the costume, don't minimilise the change to wonder womans costume it was well thought out and really meant something. especially if you remember that her costume was designed by the gods! i've been dedicated to wonderwoman for years (no not the 'greatest fan' but i've always thought she was great), in fact i still have the issue where she is given the new breast plate somewhere safe. it is very special to me.
in the traditional books her costume was made up of : the boots of hermes, girdle of geaia, breastplate of hipolita, magic lasso (part of the girdle) and the tiara (which i can't remember offhand) which also doubled as a symbol of her princessness. the bracelets as i've already mentioned, were a remnant of the amazonian slavery to men.
wow, in checking that up, i hope joss has a good explanation for her new cossie

Sorry, I am still not convinced. Iron Man had significant and long lasting changes. Wonder Woman had, at the very most, small tweeks here and there that reflect changes in women's swimming fashions over the years, or mini series style changes to up sales or humor a new artist and/or writer, but it has always returned back to the staple costume.

I would also like to note that I don't think that the eagle on the chest was morphed into a "w" like form (note how the "w" resembles the eagle's wing span) due to pressure by an unspecified women's group. It was Roy Thomas and Gene Colan that did the tweeking for merchandising reasons. Apparently Thomas and Colan felt that it was easier to copyright a symbol instead of an eagle. So, I suppose from a salesman point of view, it is a well thought out alteration.

The cape addition that appeared in association with the television series was more for promotional reasons. She didn't run around wearing the cape in the show.

The braclet reasoning is an intriguing one, but I don't think that was meant as its original meaning. The bracelets were meant to re-enforce her empowered image because they were made from Zeus's shield (in some mythologies, it was a breastplate) called Aegis; hence, why she used it to deflect bullets....like a shield or piece of armour.

I will agree with the last part, though. Joss best have good reasons to completely alter a very iconic image.

 

[Princess Ivy]

we'll have to differ then, to me it is a new costume. also the gift of the new breastplate was made by a womens organisation as a justification to change such a godly gift, i don't know what pressures the writers may or may not have been put under.
yes, ww's specific bracelets were supposedly forged from Aegis, but according to the series (pre-crisis) all amazons wore them for the reasons stated before. In one storyline, the amazons were re-captured by 'men' and the ones who lost their bracelets went mad. as another point, if an amazon, including WW were chained by her bracelets, by a man, they were not able to escape, hence they lived under a whip of potential enslavement but were unable to rid themselves of that threat because of the terrible consequences which would follow.

 

[McMurphy]

we'll have to differ then, to me it is a new costume. also the gift of the new breastplate was made by a womens organisation as a justification to change such a godly gift, i don't know what pressures the writers may or may not have been put under.
yes, ww's specific bracelets were supposedly forged from Aegis, but according to the series (pre-crisis) all amazons wore them for the reasons stated before. In one storyline, the amazons were re-captured by 'men' and the ones who lost their bracelets went mad. as another point, if an amazon, including WW were chained by her bracelets, by a man, they were not able to escape, hence they lived under a whip of potential enslavement but were unable to rid themselves of that threat because of the terrible consequences which would follow.

With the women's organization relation and the bracelet intention, do you have some citation? I can't find those connections anywhere and I am no stranger to the comic world, so I wouldn't mind learning something new.

Edit it Add: I just reread your post, and I may be misreading it. I first thought you meant that a women's organization in real life swade DC to make the change, not a plotline within the comic series. The latter, I will buy; the former I don't.