# Recommendations wanted - space opera/ big idea sci-fi



## emptyman (May 15, 2012)

Hi all.  I'm new here, but a long time sci-fi fan.  One thing though - I am pretty picky.  I am looking for some recommendations because on Amazon and Goodreads there is just far too much info and I don't know where to start.  
So - what am I looking for?  I want and tend to like fiction where there are big, new ideas that inspire my imagination in a creative way.  I prefer optimistic approaches, and huge expanses of time and perspective.  I like 'big picture' motifs.  I'm not into fantasy or plot-driven novels - I read sci-fi to feed that part of me that needs creativity and newness.
Ok - some favourites to give you a sense:  
-John c. Wright and his "Golden Age' books (tremendously packed with great, stimulating ideas. my favourite sci-fi in years).
- Douglas Adams HGTTG
- Kurt Vonnegut (yes, he IS sci-fi, sometimes) 
- Philip K Dick (short stories are so awesome, super-cool)
- Hyperion books by Simmons (didn't love them, but liked them enough to finish.)

I didn't like Asimov's foundation series that much (sorry).  
So, given this, does anyone have any good ideas for me?
The next book I'm going to try is "The Quantum Thief".  Thanks so much!


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## Fishbowl Helmet (May 15, 2012)

Well you might like:

Altered Carbon, by Richard Morgan.
On Basilisk Station, by David Weber.
Ringworld, Larry Niven.
Expanded Universe, Heinlein short stories.
Rendezvous with Rama, Clarke.
Red Mars, Kim Stanley Robinson.
Quarantine, Greg Egan.
Hominids, Sawyer.
And there was a recent old-school space opera trade paperback that came out recently, that I can't seem to remember the title or author at the moment... dammit.


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## iansales (May 15, 2012)

Iain M Banks' Culture novels, Ken MacLeod's Fall of the Republic quartet, Gary Gibson's Dakota Merrick trilogy, Michael Cobley's Humanity's Fire trilogy... all good British new space opera (which is the best kind of new space opera).


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## Perpetual Man (May 15, 2012)

Someone else who fits your requirements, huge books, big ideas is Peter F Hamilton. Both his Night's Dawn Trilogy and the Pandora's Star/Judas Unchained are epic on the grandest scale.

But it has to be said that although I love his books, there are a sizeable amount of readers who don't. (Doesn't stop him being Britain's bestselling SF author )according to the front of his latest novel)


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## iansales (May 15, 2012)

Yup, he's certainly popular. And yup, some of us don't like his books


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## Vertigo (May 15, 2012)

Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space books. Order of reading can be a little debatable but if you search on here it has been discussed on threads around about.

Poul Anderson's Tau Zero and The Boat of a Million Years. They are not related but both cover huge timespans and present interesting ideas. Tau Zero could loosely be described as space opera in that the action pretty much all takes place on a single (very long) space journey. The second is not really space opera until possibly the tail end of the book.

Neal Asher's Polity books - again take a look in his sub forum for help on the reading order.

Brian Aldiss' Helliconia - though that has some pretty strong Fantasy elements rather than space Opera.

If you like military space opera then consider David Weber's Honor Harrington books (On Basilisk Station mentioned above is the first). Also Jack Campbell's Lost Fleet series (ignore the terrible book covers and titles - they really are quite good!).

Other than that I would second some of the other recommendations, such as Hamilton, Banks and Larry Niven (you might also consider his collaboration with Jerry Pournelle; the Moties books beginning with the Mote in God's Eye).


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## emptyman (May 15, 2012)

Thanks, mates.   All great suggestions.  I am aware of most of those authors/ series, but not all. I'll do a bit more homework on them. It is so hard to know who and what you are going to like! I keep having 'altered carbon' recommended to me so maybe i'll give it a try next.  
Have any of you read John C. Wright's series that I mentioned?  I would love to find something comparable. (I secretly want some kind of official rating system called 'IPP' which stands for Ideas Per Page - and you can say something like, "Well Hamilton rates at about 4.2 new IPP, but the third in the trilogy is only a 2.3...")
  cheers


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## iansales (May 15, 2012)

John C Wright's books should be avoided. He makes Orson Scott Card's homophobia and sexism look amateur. He's like the Mel Gibson of the sf world...


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## Fishbowl Helmet (May 15, 2012)

iansales said:


> John C Wright's books should be avoided. He makes Orson Scott Card's homophobia and sexism look amateur. He's like the Mel Gibson of the sf world...



Oh, snap.


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## emptyman (May 15, 2012)

Wow.  Snap! Indeed. 
Now, is that a criticism of his character or of his books?  Because, being ignorant of him as a person, I found his books incredible.  
Iansales - did you happen to read 'The Golden Age'? Maybe I am alone in loving them... but that wouldn't be a first.


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## Triceratops (May 16, 2012)

I'll second Poul Anderson's Tau Zero and The Boat of a Million Years.

chris


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## emptyman (May 16, 2012)

*Re: Recommendations wanted - cool ideas, never mind the space opera*

After studying reviews and synopses, I have decided to try 'Altered Carbon' and Peter Hamilton's 'The Dreaming Void' (because that's what my library had, plus it looks kinda neat).
You have given me a good list of space opera to think about.  But I wonder - what responses would I get if I omitted the notion of the space opera and simply requested recommendations for books that are crammed with creative and amazing ideas?  Because in the end, this is really what it is about for me.  It is simply that space opera tends to be the niche that those books fit into.  
Ideas?


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## Vertigo (May 16, 2012)

A word of warning Hamilton's Void trilogy (Dreaming, Temporal and Evolutionary) follow on from his two book Commonwealth series. It is set some time later and although it is a totally separate story it does have some of the same characters in it. I suspect you would be better off reading the two Commonwealth books first: Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained.

As far as the second question goes. It would be hard to know where to begin there are so many. My earlier post (#6) had a couple of suggestions that weren't quite space opera and then there's PKD; his books tend to be quite small but his ideas certainly aren't!


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## iansales (May 16, 2012)

emptyman said:


> Iansales - did you happen to read 'The Golden Age'? Maybe I am alone in loving them... but that wouldn't be a first.



Yes, I read that, and the sequel, Phoenix Exultant... before I discovered how odious his personal views were. I didn't think they were very good. David Herter's Ceres Storm covers similar ground and does it a thousand times better.


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## emptyman (May 18, 2012)

@Iansales:  Really?  Fair enough - I will certainly check out 'Ceres  Storm' then, because I was damn impressed with John C Wright's trilogy -  I enjoyed them all quite a bit.  They were slow, idea driven, and  creative.  
 Also, I appreciate Vertigo's caveat about the Dreaming trilogy.  I'm  still going to give it a whirl.  I'm reading 'The Quantum Thief' right  now. 
 I'll let you know if I ever figure out what the heck is going on...


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## Vertigo (May 18, 2012)

Ah now The Quantum Thief has been on my TBR pile for some time now. Really must get around to it.


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## J-Sun (May 18, 2012)

emptyman said:


> I'll let you know if I ever figure out what the heck is going on...



There's not much to figure. Relatively undefined power blocks that it's difficult to care much about one way or the other face off while the usual fairy-tale amnesiac character comes into his own and there's another fairy tale _Star Wars_ riff I won't spoil.

It's not big idea SF - it's a few million ideas other SF writers have been having - spider-cabs I most recently saw in Reynolds' _Chasm City_, moving cities I most recently saw in Stross' _Saturn's Children_, the timepieces probably lifted from some recent movie, Sterling terminology like "spimes" and factions reminiscent of his Shaper/Mechanist Factions or Reynolds' Conjoiner/Demarchists or... Then there's quite a few bits of _The Matrix_. The posthumanity and software uploads of practically everyone. Visuals that coexist with _Inception_ (which is just a zeitgeist thing as those were probably in development simultaneously). It conceptually references or namechecks Gogol, Sartre, Wells. Etc etc. To quote the book: "'Ideas are cheap,' Paul [the thief] says. 'It's all in the execution.'" Well, I dispute that ideas are cheap and that it's all in the execution but I will grant that originality can be overrated. However, this book has almost none and it's execution is not particularly good, either.

As far as positives, I've liked some Asher, Banks, Reynolds. Also:

Baxter - Xeelee series
Egan - anything, especially _Diaspora_ and collections
Forward - _Dragon's Egg_
Rucker - for different sorts of big ideas, there's _Spacetime Donuts_, _White Light_, etc.
Sheffield - _Between the Strokes of Night_
Sterling - Shaper/Mechanist stories in _Crystal Express_, _Schismatrix_, Chattanooga stories in _A Good Old-Fashioned Future_, etc.
Vinge - Zones series

I'll third Anderson's _Tau Zero_.

Also, I'll second Clarke's _Rendezvous_. There are a bunch of other Big Dumb Object books out there, not all of which are great, but might be worth a look. Of course Niven's _Ringworld_, Sheffield's written some, I just read _Hex_ by Allen Steele about a true Dyson sphere. Bear, of course, did _Eon_ but I didn't like that as much as his apocalyptically transformational _Blood Music_, or his AI book _Queen of Angels_, or his own kind of quantum magic in _Moving Mars_.

The problem is, I don't know what a "new" idea is to you, because I don't know what you've read and if you didn't care for Asimov's _Foundation Trilogy_ then we're probably not speaking the same language anyway.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 18, 2012)

I'll third Rendezvous, I loved it. I'm also reading Ray Bradbury for the first time (I know, I know.... but all things come eventually ) and pretty blown away - I like the horror edge, - qu'elle surprise to anyone who's read my stuff.  Also, in terms of huge expanses, Dune certainly fills that remit.


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## David Evil Overlord (May 19, 2012)

Rendevous with Rama, but don't bother with the sequels (supposedly co-written, but I suspect mostly or totally written by the other author).

Ringworld, and _do_ bother with the sequels. And the rest of Niven's Known Space future history.

David Brin's Uplift books (Sundiver, Startide Rising, Brightness Reef, Infinity's Shore,  Heaven's Reach, The Uplift War.), for a civilisation that spans thousands of "uplifted"* sentient species, at least five galaxies and two billion years.

*Brin proposes a first sentient species that began a chain of genetically engineering clever animals into sentient, civilised beings, who then went on to uplift later species of clever animals...


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## emptyman (May 20, 2012)

Thanks Mr. Evil Overlord!
I read a bit of Brin - the whole dolphin thing was pretty fun, actually.  But his style didn't make me feel like I want much more of it.  
I totally forgot to mention Dune - definitely one of my all-time favourites.  But who the heck doesn't like Dune?  
I really appreciate this conversation here - it has given me loads of great leads and is certain to keep me going through the next long while.


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## Vertigo (May 20, 2012)

Ah now that's the big danger with the chrons; you'll end up with a TBR list long enough to keep you going for a couple of lifetimes


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## nightdreamer (May 20, 2012)

Vertigo said:


> Ah now that's the big danger with the chrons; you'll end up with a TBR list long enough to keep you going for a couple of lifetimes



What are you talking about?  I had one of those *before* getting on here.  And I think my TBW list is almost as long.


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## Galacticdefender (May 22, 2012)

"James S.A Corey"'s Leviathan wakes


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## emptyman (May 27, 2012)

Finished 'The Quantum Thief' and enjoyed it.  I didn't 'love' it and probably won't read the inevitable sequel, but it was fun and contrary to many of the criticisms I had heard, it was not impenetrable nor too hard to follow. Granted, there are some sticky spots that I wasn't sure about, but that can happen a lot in make-believe worlds - as long as they are not big enough holes that prevent you from going forward.  
At any rate, I'm on to Hamilton's "Dreaming Void" and right off the bat I feel like I am with a writer closer to my heart.  We'll see how it goes.


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## emptyman (Jun 9, 2012)

Update:  
To add a cyclical nature to this thread, I have just finished reading Hamilton's "The Dreaming Void" based on an earlier recommendation here.
I completely loved this book and am utterly delighted to have found this author.  Everything that I love about fiction and sci-fi is here: interesting and thought provoking ideas, intelligent style, fantastic writing and plotting technique and that mysterious quality that makes me care what is going to happen next.  
It is always a tremendous gift to find an author/artist that you enjoy so thoroughly and am very grateful to this forum for tipping me on this point.  
Going to pick up 'The Temporal Void' today....


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## Perpetual Man (Jun 9, 2012)

Glad you enjoyed it emptyman!


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## Symphinity (Jul 7, 2012)

I would highly recommend the Hyperion Cantos.  It is a story that deals with humanity's reliance on religion and technology.  It is very interesting to see what Dan Simmons comes up with for perspectives on religion and humanity's future all the while telling an engaging story.


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## Alex The G and T (Jul 7, 2012)

Big and Amazing Ideas:
Cordwainer Smith.  All of 'em.

Philip Jose Farmer  _Night of Light_ in particular.  Most of his stuff is even weirder than the RiverWorld series.  (which is also big and great.)

Clifford D Simak had a sneaky style of luring the reader into commonplace situations, then throwing weirdness into the mix; then, then when the reader gets complacent again;  weirdness piles upon weirdnerness.  _The Big Front Yard_, _Way Station_ of course.  _Destiny Doll_ floats a ridiculous bestiary.  _Enchanted Pilgrimage_ is 
a basic Hero's Quest which progressively grows Bigger and weirder.


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## Grimward (Jul 7, 2012)

Thought I'd already recommended this here, but I guess not.

Stephen Donaldson's "Gap" series.
Michael Flynn's Firestar series.

Both very good reads, Donaldson's definitely being the 'darker' of the pair.


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## emptyman (Oct 19, 2012)

Well, after many months of reading, I have finally finished Peter Hamilton’s Void trilogy.  And after 2000+ pages, it is remarkable to say that I was still interested and still enjoying it right up to the end.  I wanted to post this here, since this is where I was told about his books originally, and I really thank the person who got me started on him.  The books were effing incredible – some of the best sci-fi I have ever read.  If you haven’t already, you really must try the first of the series (The Dreaming Void).  It is the best of the best.
              Now, that said, I must point out without spoiling anything, that I was not entirely pleased with the ending.  I found it a bit rushed (after 2000 pages why not have a proper denouement?)  and though it tied up all the strings he had left dangling, it did not feel as natural nor as tidy as the rest of the writing.   Also, there was a heap of unnecessary references to characters way, waaaay back in time that obviously wanted to tie up but felt utterly out of place.  Really, that’s my only criticism.  I’m astonished that I read the whole darn thing.  But it has been good company as I trudge through the more academic reading the rest of my life is filled with.
              I will really miss Edeard and Araminta.  Fabulous characters!
              (sigh)

  So, what’s next guys?


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## Grimward (Oct 20, 2012)

*Puts in vote for Donaldson's Gap Series again*


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## nubins (Oct 24, 2012)

If you are looking for epic sci fi.... I really enjoyed the Saga of Seven Suns by Kevin J. Anderson. Huge cast, lots of interwoven plots and twists.. its not perfect as over the course of 7 books he repeats himself a little too much (trying to hard to keep people up to date with what all the characters are doing). But an entertaining read.


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## Stephen Palmer (Oct 24, 2012)

Robert Reed's _Marrow_ is terrific.


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## zaltys13 (Oct 28, 2012)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Robert Reed's _Marrow_ is terrific.


 
No it's not, it's awful.

I first read the short story it came from, hated it, forgot about it and then read the novel it became, hated it, wished I could forget about it.


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## Sarah Newton (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here - hello! 

I'd definitely second Alex's recommendation of Cordwainer Smith - absolutely awesome sf, big mindblowing ideas and wonderful artistry.

Also Olaf Stapledon - although he's a bit inaccessible, his ideas are *enormous*, specially in Starmaker.

More recently, I've loved Stephen Baxter's Manifold series (particularly "Time" and "Space"), and his "Time Ships" - his characterisation can sometimes be a bit "broad brush", but his technical expertise and bold big ideas more than compensate. Definitely worth a look.

Hamilton's great, too. Haven't got the Great North Road (is that the name?) yet, but his Reality Dysfunction and Commonwealth stories are something to get your teeth into.

Reading Ian Sales' "Adrift on the Sea of Rains" atm too - there's a very nice big idea in there, too. ;-)

Cheers,

Sarah


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## Stephen Palmer (Nov 26, 2012)

zaltys13 said:


> No it's not, it's awful.


 
Well I think it's great, and if I could find my copy I'd re-read it...


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## merritt (Dec 3, 2012)

Jack the Bodiless trilogy and the other associated stories by Julian May.


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## AE35Unit (Dec 23, 2012)

Iain M Banks' Consider Phlebas is a good un- the only Banks Ive read so far.

Ringworld by Larry Niven

Arthur C Clarke's Fountains of Paradise- cutting edge tech there!

Bob Shaw's Palace of Eternity.

Poul Anderson's Tau Zero

Greg Bear's Blod Music


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## Southern Geologist (Jan 8, 2013)

Grimward said:


> Thought I'd already recommended this here, but I guess not.
> 
> Stephen Donaldson's "Gap" series.
> Michael Flynn's Firestar series.
> ...



I will second the Gap recommendation with the caveat that it is certainly not what one would call "optimistic" for the few books or so.  Donaldson is definitely of the "light comes from darkness" philosophy.  I should also note that it will also have an ick factor for some as there is some pretty brutal violence, though it relates to the plot and character development.  On the other hand, it is one of the most impressive things I've ever read, had me reading through it continuously for several hours a day from book one to book five and has inspired me to (eventually) attempt a space opera of my own even though I was previously terrified of writing fiction.  I can give no higher recommendation than that.


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## Tyler Danann (Jan 13, 2013)

emptyman said:


> Hi all.  I'm new here, but a long time sci-fi fan.  One thing though - I am pretty picky.  I am looking for some recommendations because on Amazon and Goodreads there is just far too much info and I don't know where to start.
> So - what am I looking for?  I want and tend to like fiction where there are big, new ideas that inspire my imagination in a creative way.  I prefer optimistic approaches, and huge expanses of time and perspective.  I like 'big picture' motifs.  I'm not into fantasy or plot-driven novels - I read sci-fi to feed that part of me that needs creativity and newness.
> Ok - some favourites to give you a sense:
> -John c. Wright and his "Golden Age' books (tremendously packed with great, stimulating ideas. my favourite sci-fi in years).
> ...



You'd need a vast story arc.  With rise and fall and rise again of groups etc.  Time is a waveform, same as everything really.  Even financial analysts noticed the same with the stock-market.  Also soap opera plots use this etc.  
Within the great time cycles are many smaller ones also.

I'm doing one myself right now.  You have a beginning where the worlds are getting started, maybe some complications or wars etc, then move it to the developing point.  Finally you can have the end-times or great-clash where things hit a turning point.

I am setting my story mostly on one world but to do the same on many others would be challenging, unless you have many many books planned within it?


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## Tyler Danann (Jan 13, 2013)

emptyman said:


> Thanks Mr. Evil Overlord!
> I read a bit of Brin - the whole dolphin thing was pretty fun, actually.  But his style didn't make me feel like I want much more of it.
> I totally forgot to mention Dune - definitely one of my all-time favourites.  But who the heck doesn't like Dune?
> I really appreciate this conversation here - it has given me loads of great leads and is certain to keep me going through the next long while.



Brin is one of those authors you 'get' his peculiar wave-length or you repel from it.

I struggled through his entire The Postman book (big time repulsion, it was like reading the allegory for a one-world-state etc) and felt it was written very one-sided with *only* his mindset and no other on certain things.

So if you are writing it is important to consider the readers more open-frequency / balanced aspect rather than force them down one side's extreme.


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## J Riff (Jan 13, 2013)

Looks like humour-based stuff, so maybe try Sheckley, H. Harrison, F. Brown and ohhhh ...maybe a bit of K. Laumer, if you aren't afeared of older stuff.


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## AE35Unit (Jan 13, 2013)

emptyman said:
			
		

> I totally forgot to mention Dune - definitely one of my all-time favourites.  But who the heck doesn't like Dune?
> 
> 
> .



Well I tried reading it but struggled and nearly threw the thing aross the room!
So annoyed was I that this much-raved classic was not for me I listed it on bookmooch so someone else could drool over it.

Would like to try it again in the future tho...


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## zaltys13 (Jan 13, 2013)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Well I think it's great, and if I could find my copy I'd re-read it...


 
If I can find my copy I will send it to you gladly.


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## BigBadBob141 (Jan 14, 2014)

Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon The Deep" has some interesting ideas and even more interesting Aliens.
The is now a prequel and a sequel, but I haven't read them yet.
The Known Space stories and novels of Larry Niven are good.
As are the stories of John Varley starting with "In The Hall Of The Martian Kings".


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## AE35Unit (Jan 14, 2014)

Id have to recommend Alan Dean Foster's *Icerigger* trilogy!


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## Bugg (Mar 5, 2014)

BigBadBob141 said:


> Vernor Vinge's "A Fire Upon The Deep" has some interesting ideas and even more interesting Aliens.
> The is now a prequel and a sequel, but I haven't read them yet.


 
I thought the prequel, _A Deepness in the Sky_, was every bit as good as _A Fire Upon the Deep_ - it's a completely separate story, apart from one character who appears in both, and includes yet more fascinating aliens. 

I didn't think the sequel, _The Children of the Sky_, was particularly necessary. It's a direct follow on from _AFUtD_. It was enjoyable, but nowhere near as good, in my opinion.


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## Bugg (Mar 5, 2014)

Just wondering if anyone here has read either of these?

*The New Space Opera* - _"An anthology of epic interstellar adventures from dazzling stars in the SF universe: Kage Baker, Stephen Baxter, Gregory Benford, Tony Daniel, Greg Egan, Peter F. Hamilton, Gwyneth Jones, James Patrick Kelly, Nancy Kress, Ken Macleod, Paul J. McAuley, Ian McDonald, Robert Reed, Alastair Reynolds, Mary Rosenblum, Robert Silverberg, Dan Simmons, Walter Jon Williams."_

*The New Space Opera 2* - _"Some of the most beloved names in science fiction spin new tales of interstellar adventure and wonder. Neal Asher; John Barnes; Cory Doctorow; John Kessel; Jay Lake; John Meaney; Elizabeth Moon; Garth Nix; Mike Resnick; Justina Robson; Kristine Kathryn Rusch; John Scalzi; Bruce Sterling; Peter Watts; Sean Williams; Tad Williams; Bill Willingham."_


I'm tempted to try the first one at least.


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## Mirannan (Mar 5, 2014)

Forge of God and Anvil of Stars by Greg Bear; the Berserker series by Saberhagen. Both very good IMHO.

And for space opera in the grand style, the two series that started the genre: Lensman series and the Skylark quartet, both by E.E. Smith.


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## Cat's Cradle (Mar 8, 2014)

Mirannan said:


> Forge of God and Anvil of Stars by Greg Bear; the Berserker series by Saberhagen. Both very good IMHO.
> 
> And for space opera in the grand style, the two series that started the genre: Lensman series and the Skylark quartet, both by E.E. Smith.



Saberhagen's Berserker books were wonderful! And the Lensman books have really got something, too. I read this 20 years or so ago, and really enjoyed the books...the scale of the ideas is still quite impressive.


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## BAYLOR (Sep 4, 2016)

Honor Harrington.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 30, 2016)

Warahmmer 40k Gaunts Ghosts   and Caiphis Cain


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