# Video gaming in the commonwealth games?



## Astro Pen (Aug 6, 2022)

And there is talk of  video games in the olympics too
I was remined of a 1968 BBC play called _"The Year of the Sex Olympics"_
I should get into training for one of them I guess 









						ESports: Welsh video gamers head for Commonwealth Games
					

There are hopes that players will one day be taking part in the Olympics.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Foxbat (Aug 6, 2022)

Sports to me are for people who actually run about or cycle or swim or some other competitive physical activity, not somebody who sits in a chair playing sports simulations. 

Here are the games being used.

DOTA2 a battle game, efootball and Rocket League (soccer with cars). Looks like they were chosen more for their popularity than any relationship to an actual sport.

If you dig further into the story, there's talk of a women's category. Why? Are men's  thumbs simply stronger than women's? Is it that men can sit in a chair longer? Surely this kind of thing would be the great gender leveller?

 If esports can be part of the Commonwealth Games, why not chess? After all Lenin called it gymnnastics for the mind.


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## Rodders (Aug 6, 2022)

I think there’s a huge difference between Sports and Games.

I could see competitive gaming being something I’d watch on T.V., (after all, i regularly watch it on youtube). I’m not sure how I feel about them being included in the Commonwealth, or Olympic Games. I think it would alienate sports fans.


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## HareBrain (Aug 6, 2022)

I think this is a dangerous gamble. If they make people wonder what particular activities should be in the games, they risk them wondering why the games are there at all. To find the person who has the best combination of genetics and diet for a particular activity, and who has felt compelled to throw away all semblance of work/life balance to devote themselves to arduous and tedious training? Why does that exist?


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## BigJ (Sep 6, 2022)

I'm a bit late on this one, but I'd like to throw in my two cents.

First I think it's important to note the esports competition was held independent of the Commonwealth Games proper; different branding, medals, governance, etc. Officially it was just a demonstration event, benefiting from the massive media attention to the Games. It's also not the first time this has happened; a Starcraft 2 tournament was featured in the leadup to the 2018 Winter Olympics, and I think there's been other instances of esports mingling with traditional sporting events in Asia.


Foxbat said:


> Sports to me are for people who actually run about or cycle or swim or some other competitive physical activity, not somebody who sits in a chair playing sports simulations.
> 
> Here are the games being used.
> 
> ...


Your point about physical activity is why there is a distinction between sports and esports, and actually the biggest esports aren't games related to traditional sports at all.

If they were choosing on popularity I think they may have tried to shoehorn in a Warzone or Fortnite competition. I don't know efootball, but Dota2 and Rocket League are both mechanically demanding, highly competitive games with relatively mature esports infrastructure and communities, and both are incredibly difficult to be successful at in their own way while still being relatively easy to watch; I've definitely watched the Dota2 world championship and enjoyed it without ever having played it. I think qualifying esports based on their relation to traditional sports is a little narrow-minded, to be honest, it's a whole other thing. I think the only time that matters is if there's some cross-promotion going on, i.e. football and FIFA/efootball, NFL and Madden, automotive racing and sim racing (be it F1/sportscar/drift/whatever), etc. 

I don't know why there's no women at the highest levels of competitive esports, whether it's a physiological thing (reaction time? durability in the wrists/hands?) or a social thing (though it's changing, video games have historically been a male-dominated activity), but the only female gamer I've ever known of who competed with, and beat, the best of the best in the world is a mtf transgender woman. Make of that what you will.

I would think the lack of any real-time action would disqualify chess, but I've been wrong before. Not sure a turn-based strategy game would generate enough viewership dollars for the IOC, though.


Rodders said:


> I think there’s a huge difference between Sports and Games.
> 
> I could see competitive gaming being something I’d watch on T.V., (after all, i regularly watch it on youtube). I’m not sure how I feel about them being included in the Commonwealth, or Olympic Games. I think it would alienate sports fans.


How do you make the distinction between sports and games? There's an awful lot of overlap there, no? Football, whichever side of the pond you're on, is both a game and one of the most competitive and lucrative sports around. I mean, I put "sport" into thesaurus.com and one of the synonyms that came up was "game." I'm not saying they're one and the same, but I think it's definitely some sort of a venn diagram and not two distinct circles.

I watch a fair bit of competitive gaming on youtube as well. Honestly I'm also not sure how I feel about esports being in the Games, and honestly I'm not sure they need to be there. But that's me.


HareBrain said:


> I think this is a dangerous gamble. If they make people wonder what particular activities should be in the games, they risk them wondering why the games are there at all. To find the person who has the best combination of genetics and diet for a particular activity, and who has felt compelled to throw away all semblance of work/life balance to devote themselves to arduous and tedious training? Why does that exist?


There are definitely circles in which people are already wondering what particular activities should be in the games. I forget the specific buzzwords they've used, but the summer Olympics at least has tried to move towards a more "urban" or "youthful" program in recent years. The program for the 2024 Olympics includes 3 on 3 basketball, breakdancing, freestyle BMX, skateboarding, sport climbing, and surfing. To me, none of those fit the bill of traditional Olympic sport, but then again, they voted wrestling out of the Games program in 2013 and made them fight like hell to get back in, and weightlifting's place in the Olympics moving forward is, to put it mildly, not guaranteed (though that's not entirely undeserved, and is a whole other can of worms).

In any case, it obviously exists for the greater glory of one's homeland, no?

Sorry, that was a lot more than two cents. Evidently I had nothing to do tonight.


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## Vladd67 (Sep 6, 2022)

If esports make good tv they will eventually make it to the Olympics. The Olympics are no stranger to bizarre competitions, after in the past Olympic medals were won for poetry, sculpture,  and town planning/architecture.


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## thaddeus6th (Sep 6, 2022)

It'd be criminal if we have esports in major Games but not jousting.


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## Vladd67 (Sep 6, 2022)

Bring back chariot racing.


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## Swank (Sep 6, 2022)

Why not Olympic chili cook-offs, animal husbandry, quilting and hotdog eating contests? Why can't a brother go for the gold with a soliloquy? Are track suits acceptable debate attire? 

This is what happens when you let Soccer in.


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## paranoid marvin (Sep 17, 2022)

Well, at one time there were literature, sculpture, painting and music events, so gaming wouldn't be the first non-athletic event.


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## JunkMonkey (Sep 17, 2022)

Foxbat said:


> If you dig further into the story, there's talk of a women's category. Why? Are men's  thumbs simply stronger than women's? Is it that men can sit in a chair longer? Surely this kind of thing would be the great gender leveller?



Because if women were allowed to compete against men the women would possibly beat the crap out of them and fragile male egos don't like that sort of thing.  Easier to compartmentalise them off to one side from the start.


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## JunkMonkey (Sep 17, 2022)

Vladd67 said:


> Bring back chariot racing.



Sod that. Bring back tag team mud wrestling!


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## thaddeus6th (Sep 18, 2022)

I could be wrong but I think pro e-gaming teams are dominated by male players. It could be, weird as it sounds, that there is a sex difference. Not certain, though.


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## JunkMonkey (Sep 18, 2022)

thaddeus6th said:


> I could be wrong but I think pro e-gaming teams are dominated by male players. It could be, weird as it sounds, that there is a sex difference. Not certain, though.



Another reason might be that the presence of women in the room might trigger late onset puberty in game players in the middle of a match.  I imagine they would find it a bit distracting to find themselves  half-way through some tricky bit of Mario Karting and have their balls suddenly drop....


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## Vladd67 (Sep 19, 2022)

JunkMonkey said:


> Another reason might be that the presence of women in the room might trigger late onset puberty in game players in the middle of a match.  I imagine they would find it a bit distracting to find themselves  half-way through some tricky bit of Mario Karting and have their balls suddenly drop....


There's a joke there about joysticks, but we don't stoop that low here.


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## Danny McG (Sep 20, 2022)

Some of the events already in the Olympics are very s*** anyways, so maybe we need a change.

Like get rid of dancing on ice and synchronized swimming/diving.
And that daft gymnastic thing the girls do where they twirl a bit of ribbon around.

There should deffo be some events based on "it's a knockout"


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## Foxbat (Sep 20, 2022)

Danny McG said:


> There should deffo be some events based on "it's a knockout"



Howzabout those gymnastic dancing girls with ribbons but wearing a massive cartoon-style paper mache head?


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## Astro Pen (Sep 20, 2022)

Blindfold hurdles?


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## JunkMonkey (Sep 21, 2022)




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## BigJ (Sep 29, 2022)

thaddeus6th said:


> I could be wrong but I think pro e-gaming teams are dominated by male players. It could be, weird as it sounds, that there is a sex difference. Not certain, though.


100% male dominated. Whether that's a sex thing (like traditional physical sports), a cultural thing (like STEM and the traditional discrimination against women there), or women just don't tend to be silly enough to spend 12-16 hours a day hopped up on Adderall and Monster grinding a video game, I don't know.


Danny McG said:


> Like get rid of dancing on ice


I don't know about ice dancing, but figure skating? Being able to slide backwards on a sheet of ice balanced on a thin strip of metal and then jump into the air spinning around 3-4 times and land while still going backwards and make it look graceful and easy? I have my issues with some of the winter Olympics (I wonder why anything in the X Games needs to be in the Olympics), but figure skating isn't one of them.


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## CupofJoe (Oct 13, 2022)

It looks like it's a no-go.








						Commonwealth Games makes mystery esports U-turn
					

Despite a successful test event for competitive gaming, at the 2022 Games, organisers reject it for 2026.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Vladd67 (Oct 13, 2022)

Ether the committee responsible for this is made up of traditional athletes who look down on esports as just 'games' or,  as sadly is happening more and more in sports, somebody was annoyed their Brown envelope wasn't big enough.


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## SilentRoamer (Oct 13, 2022)

BigJ said:


> 100% male dominated. Whether that's a sex thing (like traditional physical sports), a cultural thing (like STEM and the traditional discrimination against women there), or women just don't tend to be silly enough to spend 12-16 hours a day hopped up on Adderall and Monster grinding a video game, I don't know.



Gaming is not "100% male dominated" - that's a complete myth. I used to game competitively at a high level.



JunkMonkey said:


> Because if women were allowed to compete against men the women would possibly beat the crap out of them and fragile male egos don't like that sort of thing.  Easier to compartmentalise them off to one side from the start.



I have watched/played many e sports teams, including all female esports teams, and the all female teams have never been able to compete on par with the male teams. The reason women have their own category is so that they can actually compete on a fair playing field, when the groups are mixed they just get trounced. It may be an uncomfortable fact, but it is a fact. 

Just watch any DOTA, Fortnite, WoW, LoL, APEX tournaments. Thats not to say there aren't some good women gamers (I had 2 on a team I used to run), but the talent pool is just so much bigger for the males.

Anyone who has had any involvement in competitive gaming knows this is true.


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## SilentRoamer (Oct 13, 2022)

thaddeus6th said:


> I could be wrong but I think pro e-gaming teams are dominated by male players. It could be, weird as it sounds, that there is a sex difference. Not certain, though.



Reaction speeds, fast twitch muscle fibres, prolonged concentration, adrenalin production in tense situations, visual acuity. There are so many physical reasons, none of them are politically correct but anyone who has been involved in competitive gaming at any levels knows this is true just from experience.


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## JunkMonkey (Oct 13, 2022)

As someone who really doesn't understand the attraction of watching other people competing in competitions of any sort, I find the tribalism and obscene amounts of money involved in a lot of sports utterly baffling and some - which have huge followings, like darts, are just boring beyond words, I really find the idea of watching people doing nothing but twitching a joystick and tapping a keyboard for hours pretty close to my idea of hell.  I can understand why people want to play the games.  Not _my_ kind of thing, I've played a few and got bored with them very quickly, but I can see why some people find them fascinating - my son is total Fallout geek - but why anyone wants to_ watch_ someone do it is just incomprehensible.  I love reading books.  I couldn't imagine wanting to just watch someone read one.


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## thaddeus6th (Oct 13, 2022)

Tribalism (as someone who does like F1) in sport is beyond me. It just seems unnecessary, and bizarre.


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## SilentRoamer (Oct 14, 2022)

JunkMonkey said:


> As someone who really doesn't understand the attraction of watching other people competing in competitions of any sort, I find the tribalism and obscene amounts of money involved in a lot of sports utterly baffling and some - which have huge followings, like darts, are just boring beyond words, I really find the idea of watching people doing nothing but twitching a joystick and tapping a keyboard for hours pretty close to my idea of hell.  I can understand why people want to play the games.  Not _my_ kind of thing, I've played a few and got bored with them very quickly, but I can see why some people find them fascinating - my son is total Fallout geek - but why anyone wants to_ watch_ someone do it is just incomprehensible.  I love reading books.  I couldn't imagine wanting to just watch someone read one.



I played a couple of games at a good level. One in particular at a reasonably high level. I would watch teams to improve my own gameplay, to better understand game mechanics, to better understand how the best teams in the world play, to appreciate the skill, teamwork co-ordination and determination of the competitors - and also just for the enjoyment of a passive view in what would normally be an active enjoyment. I used to lead one of the teams I played in (this was a ten person team and sometimes we would play for 4 hours), this could be highly stressful, watching other e-sports teams would allow me to participate in the game, without any external or internal pressures from either an opposing team or internally within my own team. 

Many of the competitive games have complex mechanics and interplay between those mechanics. There is also the enjoyment of watching your favourite teams compete against other teams, at watching the best players in the world strive against each other - like in any other competitive outlay. 

Reading books is completely different, because you cannot really watch someone read a book in the sense of understanding their interpretation, their action, it is entirely passive, such as watching television, there are no choices, no mechanics, no differentiation. People do not have different ways of reading a book (well I suppose they do but not in any way that is appreciable to the viewer).

Thats the reasoning as it pertains to me and most of those I know.


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## BigJ (Oct 27, 2022)

Sorry for the slow reply.


SilentRoamer said:


> Gaming is not "100% male dominated" - that's a complete myth. I used to game competitively at a high level.


I mean . . . 


SilentRoamer said:


> and the all female teams have never been able to compete on par with the male teams.


This is what I was saying. The best of the best are all males. Ergo, male dominated. That's not to say there aren't some very good female gamers, or that there aren't a lot of women playing video games in a non-competitive setting. But at the top level they can't compete with the men.

What game did you compete in at a high level, if you don't mind me asking?


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## SilentRoamer (Oct 28, 2022)

@BigJ Mostly used to play WoW PvP. But also played other team based games like CoD, Fortnite, C&C and other RTS and also some turn based games and also been involved in a number of speed running communities.


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## BigJ (Oct 28, 2022)

SilentRoamer said:


> @BigJ Mostly used to play WoW PvP. But also played other team based games like CoD, Fortnite, C&C and other RTS and also some turn based games and also been involved in a number of speed running communities.


Gotcha. I've never really followed the scene for any of those. Played some of the older C&C games and my share of CoD but I've always been garbage at them. The big esports I've followed have been SC2 and the last few years a bit of LoL, but I've been nothing but a filthy casual in those as well. SC2 in particular I'd get crazy ladder anxiety in 1v1s and so just never played them. I never really used video games to scratch that competitive itch, though.


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