# Gambeson vs Padded tunic



## Brian G Turner (Feb 2, 2013)

Another research question ...

Usually when someone wears a mail shirt they wear padding underneath to prevent chafing. 

Normally I would expect something in a tunic form to be simply called a "padded tunic".

However, when I look at living history shops, it's usually called a gambeson, ie:

http://www.medieval-arms.co.uk/deta.../517/name/robin-hood-style-gambeson,-size-lxl
http://www.thevikingstore.co.uk/larp-gambeson---leopold-1694-p.asp

Question is, is it a case of interchangeable use of words for the same item of clothing? 

Or is there an actual technical difference? For example, tunics tend to go to the waist, but I see knee-length gambesons available.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 2, 2013)

As far as I tell with a bit of research the gambeson is used more with armour than mail, or sometimes, as with the robin hood one, as a padded armour on its own. I have always used the term padded tunic for under mail.


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## The Judge (Feb 2, 2013)

The Merriam-Webster definition of gambeson is 





> *:* a medieval garment of stuffed and  quilted cloth or leather orig. worn under the hauberk as a pad but  later used alone as a defensive garment


 ie under mail.  I suspect it's one of those words which had a very specialist defined meaning at one era, but then usage slipped so as to encompass slightly different garments, in the same way that smock used to mean the shift women wore under their dresses, but eventually came to mean the working garment shepherds wore over their other clothes.

If this is for your book and you're working in a restricted time frame, you might need to get hold of transcripts of original documents of the time to see what they used.  (Though the trouble then is trying to work out what people actually meant and the subtle differences which they understood and we can't always grasp.)

NB I'd actually define a tunic as something that came down over the upper thighs, at least, and probably down to the knees, so I wouldn't use the word for a garment that only went to the waist.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 2, 2013)

The ones we had in the castle, which were made by an armourer who specialised in medieval armour came down to about mid thigh length, and definitely were more tunic-y. He also referred to it as a tunic through his demonstration, but that may have been for us layfolk. I have a book here, somewhere, Brian, which lists what was ordered in for supplies for the castle over the medieval period, if I get a chance later on, I'll have a gander.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Feb 2, 2013)

I spend my days with people who wear this kind of thing in the SCA, and I've only heard people refer to the padding as a gambeson.  I've never heard anyone use the term "padded tunic." (So I think the armourer at the castle _was_ speaking for the layfolk, springs.)  Mind you, with the thing in front of you, it's not necessary to describe it.  But I think that if you don't want to say gambeson, quilted jacket would be a better description.  

The length would, of course, depend on the length of the mail.  If you look at the Bayeux tapestry, they're all wearing mail down to around the knees.  Later, when they wore mail under their plate armor, it was much shorter.  When the padding had "points" for attaching the armor, it was called an aketon.

I think more people would be familiar with the term gambeson than aketon.


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## thaddeus6th (Feb 2, 2013)

In the Knight (Unofficial Manual) gambeson (or aketon) is referred to simply as a quilted jacket worn under armour.


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## Brian G Turner (Feb 2, 2013)

Excellent - enough to work with. The uneducated character will call it a "quilted jacked", and will be corrected that it's properly called a gambeson. That should ensure the reader knows what it is without falling foul of the historical purists (such as myself!).


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## thaddeus6th (Feb 2, 2013)

Sounds sensible, although does historical purity matter, given it's fiction?

[I do try and make things as realistic as possible, but, for me, one of the biggest advantages of fantasy is the capacity to fiddle and make things up as necessary/desired].


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## Brian G Turner (Feb 2, 2013)

It's more often the case I know the technical name for something, but don't think the character would. However, being able to use a real name can help with the sense of detail for the reader IMO. It's just finding that balance where required. 

Generally, I want to keep as close a sense of realism as possible - and that means details are everything.


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## thaddeus6th (Feb 2, 2013)

That's true.

Must admit, I did some research on edible plants that live in sub-arctic conditions [yes, I do have that exciting a life] for Journey to Altmortis. (Crowberries are what I went with, for those interested).


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