# Wuxia and historical adventure/dramas



## Andersson (Oct 29, 2015)

Seeing as there has been no activity in this part of the forum for nearly 7 months I thought I’d try and get something going.

Since this is a Fantasy (and Science Fiction) forum I think that it would be good to have a thread where we recommend and discuss Wuxia and historical adventure/dramas as these often come pretty close to what we would consider fantasy.

For those unfamiliar with the term Wuxia:

_Wuxia, which literally means "martial hero", is a genre of Chinese fiction concerning the adventures of martial artists in ancient China._

_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia_

So basically we are talking about martial arts movies in a historical or mythical setting. I’m sure the purists would argue that there’s more to it than that but I prefer to keep it simple which is why I’ve also included historical adventure/dramas since these usually have a similar setting and, more often than not, include a healthy dose of martial arts as well.

I’ll get things going by listing a few of the most obvious ones and then others can add to it. I’m going to link to reviews from http://www.lovehkfilm.com/, a great site that I’ve been using since 2002, but feel free to use other links or just write your own opinion.

*Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/crouching_tiger_hidden_dragon.htm
No comment necessary since it’s the genre’s most well-known movie by far (and a pretty good movie as well). A sequel is coming next year (not directed by And Lee unfortunately).

*Hero (2002)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/hero_2002.htm
Almost as well known as the above and, in my opinion, an even better movie.

*House of Flying Daggers (2004)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/house_of_flying_daggers.htm
Zhang Yimou’s second effort in the genre (after Hero) which, despite looking wonderful, leaves quite a lot to wish for in terms of story. Still, I have to admit that it has become somewhat of a guilty pleasure of mine.
*

Curse of the Golden Flower (2006)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/curse_of_the_golden_flower.htm
Zhang Yimou’s third movie in the genre (should we call it a trilogy?). Still beautiful to look at though some may feel that things have gotten a bit out of hand in the costume and set department. Once again the story is a bit weak at times but an amazing performance by Gong Li makes up for a lot of it in my opinion.

*Wu Xia (2011)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/wu_xia.html
Obvious inclusion on account of the name if nothing else. Seriously though, a really good movie with a simple story (in a good way) and lots of great action.

I have plenty more to add but I think I should give others a chance to contribute. Hopefully we can get a nice discussion going.


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## Foxbat (Oct 29, 2015)

Love all of the above

Whilst not specifically Wuxia, I think Wong Kar Wai's The Grandmaster is worth a recommendation.

And here's a few other for consideration.

The Flying Swords Of Dragon Gate, The Three Kingdoms, Reign Of Assassins, The Legend Of The Shadowless Sword and Jade Warrior


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## Andersson (Oct 30, 2015)

*The Grandmaster (2013)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/grandmaster.html
I think it qualifies even though the setting is a bit more contemporary than most other films in the genre. Maybe it can be called a modern Wuxia (if the 1930’s can be considered modern). I have to mention that Wong Kar Wai is my favorite director though the Grandmaster, while a good movie, is not one of my favorite movies of his.

*Flying Swords of Dragon Gate (2011)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/flying_swords_dragon_gate.html
No question whether or not this qualifies, it doesn’t get much more Wuxia than this. From what I remember it was pretty silly (mostly in a good way) and over the top but very entertaining. Another very good director in Tsiu Hark.

There are several movies based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms but I’m going to guess that you mean the Battle of Red Cliff I and II since these are probably the most well-known?

*Red Cliff I (2008)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/red_cliff.html

*Red Cliff II (2009)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/red_cliff_2.html

Good movies, especially the second one, from yet another great director, John Woo. I would say these are good examples of movies that are more historical adventure/dramas but still fit pretty well alongside the Wuxia movies mentioned earlier.

*Reign of Assassins (2010)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/reign_of_assassins.html
A great pick. A really good movie that probably isn’t nearly as well-known as it deserves to be. Apparently John Woo had a little something to do with this one as well since he is credited as co-director.

*Legend of the Shadowless Sword (2005)*
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/34237/legend-of-the-shadowless-sword-the/
Korean movie which explains why I haven’t seen it. I checked a trailer and review and it looks pretty interesting so I might check it out.

*Jade Warrior (2006)*
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/panasia/jade_warrior.htm
A Finnish Wuxia? I remember hearing about this some years ago but I’ve never seen it. I apologize for being skeptical but is it really any good?


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## Foxbat (Oct 30, 2015)

Andersson said:


> Jade Warrior (2006)
> http://www.lovehkfilm.com/panasia/jade_warrior.htm
> A Finnish Wuxia? I remember hearing about this some years ago but I’ve never seen it. I apologize for being skeptical but is it really any good?


It's not a masterpiece but I thought it was interesting and reasonably watchable


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## Foxbat (Oct 30, 2015)

Andersson said:


> *The Grandmaster (2013)*
> http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews_2/grandmaster.html
> I think it qualifies even though the setting is a bit more contemporary than most other films in the genre. Maybe it can be called a modern Wuxia (if the 1930’s can be considered modern). I have to mention that Wong Kar Wai is my favorite director though the Grandmaster, while a good movie, is not one of my favorite movies of his.



Wong Kar Wai is also one of my favourite directors and I think *In The Mood for Love* _is_ a masterpiece


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## JC Kang (Jan 1, 2016)

I love Wuxia movies.  I watched so many Shaw Brothers flicks on Saturday Kung Fu Theatre back in the day, and then really got into it when Jet Li portrayed Wong Fei-Hong in the 1990s.

I loved all the films you listed below.  To me,  Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon represented an evolution of the Wuxia film.  It was no longer just about the acrobatics, but the cinematography as well.



Andersson said:


> *Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000)
> Hero (2002)
> House of Flying Daggers (2004)
> Curse of the Golden Flower (2006)
> Wu Xia (2011)*


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## JC Kang (Jan 1, 2016)

Andersson said:


> *The Grandmaster (2013)*
> I think it qualifies even though the setting is a bit more contemporary than most other films in the genre. Maybe it can be called a modern Wuxia (if the 1930’s can be considered modern). I have to mention that Wong Kar Wai is my favorite director though the Grandmaster, while a good movie, is not one of my favorite movies of his.



I couldn't stand The Grandmaster.  I was so lost.  I'm still trying to figure out how the barber shop fight at the end connects to the rest of the story.   I think my biggest bite with the story is that as a practitioner of Wing Chun Kung Fu, after the Ip Man movies came out, I felt The Grandmaster didn't really have anything to do with Grandmaster Ip Man's life.

That said, I would agree the choreography has an wuxia feel to it.  The fight by the train was amazing.


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## Andersson (Feb 18, 2016)

I watched "the Assassin" a while ago which has won a bunch of awards including the Golden Horse Award for best film and best director at Cannes.

I would definitely recommend it but you should be in the right mood when watching it. It is very much a slow moving film, don't expect a lot of elaborate kung fu or action though there are some fight scenes. Despite starring Shu Qi, who is very good in her role, the most beautiful part of the movie is the scenery. There are a lot of great shots of both interiors and natural vistas, the cinematography is great. Wonderful soundtrack as well. So make sure you are in a relaxed and contemplative mood and you should enjoy what is a great addition to the Wuxia genre.

Link to review:
The Assassin (聶隱娘) (2015)


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## JC Kang (Feb 18, 2016)

I've been wanting to see this!  Hou Hsiao-Hsien definitely emphasizes scenery, and his movies can be pretty slow paced.


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## Andersson (Feb 18, 2016)

JC Kang said:


> I've been wanting to see this!  Hou Hsiao-Hsien definitely emphasizes scenery, and his movies can be pretty slow paced.



I have to admit that I haven't seen any of his other movies but after looking through the list "Flowers of Shanghai" looks interesting. I'm a sucker for any historical setting and Tony Leung Chiu-Wai is my favorite actor (isn't he everybody's?). However, this quote from the review makes me a bit hesitant:

_From Taiwanese director Hou Hsiao-Hsien comes this critically lauded, yet interminably dull tale about the inner workings of a Shanghai brothel. Flowers of Shanghai may be beautiful to look at, but honestly, what's all the fuss? 
_
Link: Flowers of Shanghai (TAIWAN 1998)

Like "The Assassin" I'm guessing it's a question of being in the right mood when watching it_._


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## Andersson (Feb 19, 2016)

In my continuing effort to keep this thread alive here is another recommendation.






Journey to the West: Conquering the Demons (西遊．降魔篇) (2013)

This film is the opposite of my last recommendation in many ways. It is fast paced, fun and silly (though there are some "darker" moments). It's directed by Stephen Chow Sing-Chi (周星馳) who many people are probably familiar with (Shaolin Soccer (2001)) and he has also written and produced it though he does not appear in the movie. Instead he leaves the acting to Wen Zhang (文章) and Shu Qi (舒淇) (the latter also starred in The Assassin (聶隱娘) (2015)).

My personal view on the movie is that the first half, especially the opening sequence, is fantastic but unfortunately the second half does not manage to live up to that potential. As a result I actually felt a little bit disappointed when the movie ended, but with some distance to it I think it's still a really good movie (that could have been great).

With a few days still left of the Chinese New Year celebrating the year of the monkey this would make an appropriate viewing.


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## The Bluestocking (Feb 19, 2016)

When I was growing up, I loved watching Jet Li as legendary Kung Fu grandmaster, Wong Fei Hoong in the ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA trilogy 

Li was in some very entertaining martial arts movies that had some great fight sequences and a good sense of humour.

Jackie Chan's good as well but for me, Li (and Donnie Yen who's almost a generation younger) is the one I preferred.

Also, for some reason, I *must* watch martial arts movies in Cantonese. They don't feel right if they're in Mandarin or any other Chinese dialect. Blame it on watching lots of Hong Kong movies as a kid


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## Andersson (Mar 1, 2016)

Chen Kaige (陳凱歌 ) is probably best known for “Farewell My Concubine” which won the Golden Palm award at The Cannes Film Festival in 1993. However, he has also directed three movies that fit into the Wuxia/historical drama genre. The first of these is:




The Emperor and the Assassin (荊軻剌秦王) (1998) holds a special place for me since it was the movie that really got me interested in Chinese historical dramas when I watched it on television at the age of 18. Previously I had watched some martial arts movies with Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan but this was a different type of movie altogheter. This movie is the reason I dragged my family to the cinema to watch Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (臥虎藏龍) (2000) and these two movies really cemented my interest in the genre (though they are very different movies).

I'm not going to give away anything of the story, you can read the review if you want more information, but it deals with the story of China's first emperor and, like I wrote above, it is more of a historical drama then a Wuxia. Since the movie is from 1998 the production values might not be of quite the same standard as later big budget movies in the genre but it still looks great and, in my opinion, very epic. The acting from Li Xuejian, Gong Li (鞏俐) and Zhang Fengyi is terrific. I cannot recommend this movie enough, though I must admit my view of it is probably influenced in some part by the impact it had on me when I first watched it. Still, if you are interested in this kind of movies I dare say you won't be disappointed.


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## Andersson (Mar 1, 2016)

The second of the three Chen Kaige (陳凱歌 ) movies that I'm going to recommend (with some qualifications in this case) is:




​The Promise (無極) (2005) is extremely over the top with both its characters and story, it is definitely 100% Wuxia (rather than historical). However, unlike Journey to the West: Conquering the Demons (西遊．降魔篇) (2013) for instance, it takes itself quite seriously. The result is... interesting I guess you could say. The actors, Cecilia Cheung Pak-Chi (張柏芝 ) and Nicholas Tse Ting-Fung (謝霆鋒) in particular, feels a bit lightweight and does not compare all that favorably, in my opinion at least, to the cast of The Emperor and the Assassin (荊軻剌秦王) (1998).

I couldn't really recommend this as a good movie. Still, as a spectacle (some of the costumes and sets are pretty amazing) it's probably worth watching, especially if you're into Wuxia's in general. I have to admit I did watch it a second time several years after my first viewing so I guess there was something that made want to me come back to it.


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## Andersson (Mar 1, 2016)

The third and final (so far at least) movie from Chen Kaige (陳凱歌 ) that I'm going to recommend is:




​Sacrifice (2010) is a return to more "down to earth" film making, though after The Promise (無極) (2005) that's not really saying a lot (  ). Seriously though, this is a very solid movie even though it might not be at the same level as The Emperor and the Assassin (荊軻剌秦王) (1998) (that's an awful high standard though). The story is good, there are some really cool martial arts sequences and I especially enjoy the performance of Wang Xueqi (王學圻) who had a really good year in 2010 as he also starred as the wonderfully evil villain in Reign of Assassins (劍雨) (2010) (another recommendation in this thread that you should definitely check out if you haven't already). Ge You (葛優) is also really good in the sympathetic lead role.


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## Andersson (Mar 7, 2016)

Andersson said:


> *Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000)*
> No comment necessary since it’s the genre’s most well-known movie by far (and a pretty good movie as well). A sequel is coming next year (not directed by And Lee unfortunately).



Above is a quote from the first post of this thread. However, I re-watched Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (臥虎藏龍) (2000) this Sunday for the first time in 10+ years which caused me to want to update as well as expand my opinion on the most famous movie in the Wuxia genre.




When I watched it for the first time I was 18 or 19 years old and I was captivated by the unfamiliar and exotic setting, the thrilling fight scenes, the romance and the adventure. The character’s I identified with the most was the young lover’s Jen (Zhang Ziyi (章子怡)) and Lo (Chang Chen (張震)).

Watching it now when I’m in my 30’s I still appreciate the same things as I did the first time but I feel that there’s another deeper level that I never fully appreciated before. The relationship between the older characters, Li Mu-Bai (Chow Yun-Fat (周潤發)) and Shu-Lien (Michelle Yeoh (楊紫瓊)), is now the unquestioned center of the story for me and despite all the action and adventure it’s the quiet scenes between these two characters that I find really engaging. I think this movie has an elegance and a sensitivity to go along with the great action that makes it truly special.

I also have to mention the amazing soundtrack, as soon as I hear that cello I get chills running up and down my spine.

It’s not a perfect movie (there’s no such thing of course). The way that Jen and Lo meet seems a bit unbelievable to me even in the context of this world (there’s a difference between being young and reckless and being a suicidal idiot). Jade Fox feels like less of a threat than she perhaps should be as the only real villain in the story but I guess she still proves herself a match for the heroes in the end. I still don’t like the ending, after the emotional last scene between Li Mu-Bai and Shu-Lien it just seems unnecessary and too melodramatic. Still, these are all minor things that do not detract that much from the overall story.

I used to think that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (臥虎藏龍) (2000) was a bit overrated compared to other movies in the genre (Hero (英雄) (2002) for instance) but I’ve now completely changed my mind, this is the definitive Wuxia movie.


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## Andersson (Mar 7, 2016)

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny (2016)




The reason I decided to re-watch the original (see previous post) and let me tell you, watching both movies back to back was a jarring and rather unpleasant experience. Having stayed away from any trailers or articles I didn't really knew anything about this movie which is why my expectations were probably unjustifably high. I was disappointed right away to realize that the characters were speaking English, with wildy varying accents, and it was all pretty much downhill from there. I'm not going to waste any more of mine or your time writing about this movie, apart from Michelle Yeoh (楊紫瓊) I can't think of a single redeeming feature.


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

The Bluestocking said:


> When I was growing up, I loved watching Jet Li as legendary Kung Fu grandmaster, Wong Fei Hoong in the ONCE UPON A TIME IN CHINA trilogy
> 
> Li was in some very entertaining martial arts movies that had some great fight sequences and a good sense of humour.
> 
> ...




YES.  My introduction to HK cinema was the Wong Fei-Hong series with Jet Li.  And back then, we could only watch it in Cantonese!


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

Andersson said:


> Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny (2016)​
> The reason I decided to re-watch the original (see previous post) and let me tell you, watching both movies back to back was a jarring and rather unpleasant experience. Having stayed away from any trailers or articles I didn't really knew anything about this movie which is why my expectations were probably unjustifably high. I was disappointed right away to realize that the characters were speaking English, with wildy varying accents, and it was all pretty much downhill from there. I'm not going to waste any more of mine or your time writing about this movie, apart from Michelle Yeoh (楊紫瓊) I can't think of a single redeeming feature.



I started watching in English, but got disoriented when there was Mandarin in the background.  I ended up switching to Mandarin, and recognized both Michelle Yeoh and Donnie Yen's imperfect accents.

What I DID appreciate about the sequel was the martial choreography.  It's head and shoulders above the original, even if the the original was much more beautiful as a whole.  It would make sense, since so much of the cast were real martial artists.


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

Andersson said:


> The second of the three Chen Kaige (陳凱歌 ) movies that I'm going to recommend (with some qualifications in this case) is:
> 
> ​The Promise (無極) (2005) is extremely over the top with both its characters and story, it is definitely 100% Wuxia (rather than historical). However, unlike Journey to the West: Conquering the Demons (西遊．降魔篇) (2013) for instance, it takes itself quite seriously. The result is... interesting I guess you could say. The actors, Cecilia Cheung Pak-Chi (張柏芝 ) and Nicholas Tse Ting-Fung (謝霆鋒) in particular, feels a bit lightweight and does not compare all that favorably, in my opinion at least, to the cast of The Emperor and the Assassin (荊軻剌秦王) (1998).
> 
> I couldn't really recommend this as a good movie. Still, as a spectacle (some of the costumes and sets are pretty amazing) it's probably worth watching, especially if you're into Wuxia's in general. I have to admit I did watch it a second time several years after my first viewing so I guess there was something that made want to me come back to it.



I never did figure out what was going on in the Promise.  We watched it because my wife is absolutely in lust with Hiroyuki Sanada.  yeah, I can't take back those lost two hours of my life.


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

Andersson said:


> Chen Kaige (陳凱歌 ) is probably best known for “Farewell My Concubine” which won the Golden Palm award at The Cannes Film Festival in 1993. However, he has also directed three movies that fit into the Wuxia/historical drama genre. The first of these is:
> 
> 
> The Emperor and the Assassin (荊軻剌秦王) (1998) holds a special place for me since it was the movie that really got me interested in Chinese historical dramas when I watched it on television at the age of 18. Previously I had watched some martial arts movies with Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan but this was a different type of movie altogheter. This movie is the reason I dragged my family to the cinema to watch Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (臥虎藏龍) (2000) and these two movies really cemented my interest in the genre (though they are very different movies).
> ...



I don't remember this movie very well; it's been years since I watched it.  I do remember not liking it very much.  I'm really not a fan of Chen Kaige in general.


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## Andersson (Mar 9, 2016)

JC Kang said:


> I started watching in English, but got disoriented when there was Mandarin in the background.  I ended up switching to Mandarin, and recognized both Michelle Yeoh and Donnie Yen's imperfect accents.
> 
> What I DID appreciate about the sequel was the martial choreography.  It's head and shoulders above the original, even if the the original was much more beautiful as a whole.  It would make sense, since so much of the cast were real martial artists.



I understand that it was filmed in English and then dubbed to Mandarin. I would have switched (not because I understand Mandarin but I would still have preferred it) but there was only English language available on my DVD.

I suppose the choreography in the sequel might have been technically better/more advanced (I can't really judge that) but it certainly felt less imaginative and well-thought out than in the original. In Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon every fight was distinct and told a story, showing us the character's personalities. In the sequel most of the fights were just generic fighting (with some exceptions). I think this is a general problem in many martial arts movies, fight scenes for the sake of having fight scenes rather than to further the story and the characters.

Still, I have to admit that I was probably a bit harsh in my view of the movie. If you don't compare it with the original I suppose you could argue that it was a decent/average movie, my high expectations ruined it for me.



JC Kang said:


> I never did figure out what was going on in the Promise.  We watched it because my wife is absolutely in lust with Hiroyuki Sanada.  yeah, I can't take back those lost two hours of my life.



I've watched it twice but don't ask me to explain the story, something about a curse is all I remember. It's pretty to look at though and you can't really blame your wife for lusting after Hiroyuki Sanada, he's a good looking guy and a good actor as well, he was great in "The Twilight Samurai".



JC Kang said:


> I don't remember this movie very well; it's been years since I watched it.  I do remember not liking it very much.  I'm really not a fan of Chen Kaige in general.



We have somewhat different tastes it seems , I'm not really a big fan of the "Once Upon a Time in China" series that you mentioned earlier.


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

Andersson said:


> I've watched it twice but don't ask me to explain the story, something about a curse is all I remember. It's pretty to look at though and you can't really blame your wife for lusting after Hiroyuki Sanada, he's a good looking guy and a good actor as well, he was great in "The Twilight Samurai".
> 
> We have somewhat different tastes it seems , I'm not really a big fan of the "Once Upon a Time in China" series that you mentioned earlier.



Different tastes, but OMG, Twilight Samurai was brilliant.


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## JC Kang (Mar 9, 2016)

Andersson said:


> I understand that it was filmed in English and then dubbed to Mandarin. I would have switched (not because I understand Mandarin but I would still have preferred it) but there was only English language available on my DVD.
> .



Yeah, it took me a while to realize that, but it makes sense, because all the major actors are native English speakers.  My understanding is that the story was very faithful to the original literary source, whereas Ang Lee took significant liberties with CTHD to make it appeal to a movie audience?  Having never read Wang Dulu books myself, I can only go by what other have told me.


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## Zen Dragon (Jun 1, 2016)

Could I recommend a pair of films that I enjoyed?
*Bodyguards and Assassins* (2009) is a historical Action Drama about the uprising in China in the early 1900's. Fictional characters were added, but the movie was moving (to me).
_*14 Blades *_(2010) is a Donnie Yen Wuxia film that I remember watching and enjoying very much.

Wuxia is such a wonderful genre, when it is done well.


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