# Your Empire, Your Rules



## Syn (Dec 7, 2005)

just out of curiosity to the members of this forum, i was wondering how certain people would run their own Empire's if given the option.

The location for mine would be Italy as this is the place of the rise and fall of a very famous empire that being the Roman Empire.  People would be able to have the ability of freedom of speech and if someone committed a crime there would be penalties for it, depending on what types of crime it was.  I would also have a council that would make decisions and debate on the choices of everyday life, there will be equality among "slaves" and those of the higher class citizens.

If i think of more i will add some, but for now i would like to hear other peoples thoughts and ideas cause i am all out


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## YOSSARIAN (Dec 7, 2005)

I can't say much lest my plan for world conquest be revealed.  When my work is complete, there will be justice, party favors, and tasty little snacks for everyone!  Except for my enemies.  They will be quickly executed.

Seriously, I am working on a story line that combines the history of Latin America (ancient to modern times) with some standard fantasy themes.  I'm sure my ideas on how an empire should be run will have a lot to do with the story.  I would like to be able to create an empire where compassion, intelligence and justice are reflected in the actions of its leaders. Imagine!


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## cornelius (Dec 7, 2005)

the Axe will bring justice! It will chop trees for wood, chop vegetables and fruits, chop animals (for food as well) , chop rock and minerals (for housebuilding, minor industry and wealth) and chop the heads af all my foes ( for fun??)


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## chrispenycate (Dec 7, 2005)

An empire- a political organisation generated by military means.

The very first thing to establish is communications- a road network, harbours, canals, transfer points between different modes of transport. Not only does this mean we can get troops to trouble spots fast, but the more trade and general contact between regions the less tendency for individual regions to break away, with fragmentation probably the most common end of an empire.

A common currency and an imperial standard of weights and measures should follow as soon as possible- again simplifying contacts between regions. Of course, the old systems won’t disappear overnight (you can still buy a « livre » of bread in France, two hundred years after the imposition of the decimal system) but there will be a universal reference.

An empire wide legal system will take a bit longer- not only do we need to write the laws- and the basic legal system within which the laws will apply- we need to educate a class of lawmen. Judges, local, mobile and central and an enforcement force independant of the military. Tax laws give us the first brick in the burocracy (for stability, all empires have needed that burocracy- even the mongols started one) Property laws, the rights of the various classes (whatever the rules are- the important is that they be universal, enforcable and enforced.)

For me, the next stage is education. All children to learn the imperial language (not nescessarily to the exclusion of their local language). A standard written form, using the simplest alphabetical system available to be taught as widely as possible, along with a standardised number and calculation system. All this will take time- and will face opposition both from the conquered peoples, who will see their traditions diluted, and from the imperial hierachy, who will see it as a dilution of their authority, but will weld the disparate elements into a single entity. Further education for gifted students, giving ambitious men a path to advancement without revolt. Even reasonably priced universites, with sponsored research departments- who knows, we might be able to develope the printing press or the semaphore network, both of which would be extremely useful for imperial organisation, and are within our technology base. 

 The principal threat to empires (apart from other empires) has generally come from the ranks of their own military- after a succesful campagne a general decides he’s ripe for promotion to the top spot, or an emperor is so paranoid that he eliminates all his competent generals and weakens the entire structure. Apart from the « divine right » aristocratic model, which concentrates all the infighting in one family group because the people won’t accept anyone not « of the blood » (a model I don’t particularly like- it gives Caligulars and the like, who believe in their divinity) only speedy, accurate communications can reduce this risk.

	True justice is inachevable- even now, it’s a pious hope rather than a genuine aim- but a reasonable attempt will make people want the status quo to continue- and in the long run that’s what will hold you empire together, and keep military interventions to a minimum.


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## chrispenycate (Dec 7, 2005)

Or else you could just charge in, massacre the population, kill the local lords, and their families, and their retainers, steal everything that isn't nailed down and destroy everything that is, give land and tiles to your military commanders, tax the peasants to subsistance level (and find out what susistance level is by increasing taxes until enough die that income starts falling) brutally repress any slightest hint of independance.
But your base population had better have a very high fertility rate.
It's up to you, really.

(and no, I haven't gone into state religion as a means of homogenisation- didn't dare)


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## Rosemary (Dec 7, 2005)

Maybe that's what my Anglo-Saxon Empire should be doing...  massacre, blood and guts, pillage and...oh no, that was the Vikings.

However, I shall of course lead the charge with my Sword and finally bring peace to my land


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## cornelius (Dec 7, 2005)

note that my axe is willing to help!


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## AmonRa (Dec 8, 2005)

my empire probably couldnt really be called an empire, but i think the lives of the people within the society would be more prosperous than most of those living in a hierachal war state.

I'd abbollish all Major religions, i.e. let the people find their own personal beliefs through life instead of brain washing by the power mad.

i'd abollish money - i cant say it causes greed, but it is catalyst that breeds it. without money, there will still be greedy people, but it would be a lot less evident, there would not be a problem of debt, or not enoug money for food or housing.

we would not 'settle' as this polutes, destroys the earth and kills animals and plants - which we need to survive!

we would 'move wih the heard' living as hunter/gatherers, not allowing settlement which always leads to corruption in some form

the law/millitary/monarchy should not decide what is 'right' or what is 'wrong' - the reason being, there is no true right or wrong. this will be decided for the individual

there will be no hierachy other than a representing chieftan for each tribe/guild etc - but this person should not make the decisions soely, but be a voice for everyone else.


...*oh if only in a perfect world...*


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## Esioul (Dec 9, 2005)

Sounds interesting, AmonRa. But how would the economy work without money of some kind? Some kind of reciprocal trade? 

How long shoudl an emprie continue for it to be counted as an empire at all, do you think? There are some which really only lasted properly on their greatest form for the lifetime of their ruler, for example that of Charlemagne.

For a successful empire, propoganda is very important- the ruler or rulers are generally portrayed as powerful, perhaps even divine, and other institutions of the emprie showed in a similar way.


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## chrispenycate (Dec 9, 2005)

AmonRa said:
			
		

> my empire probably couldnt really be called an empire, but i think the lives of the people within the society would be more prosperous than most of those living in a hierachal war state.



No, organisation is the heart of empire (doesn't mean I approve, just that empires do) And though the lot of the common peple in an empire might not live a particularly agreable life, they generally dislike the "I'm stronger than you so I can take anything I want" mentality more.



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> I'd abbollish all Major religions, i.e. let the people find their own personal beliefs through life instead of brain washing by the power mad.


 
Most hunter gatherer societies had  deeply entrenched belief systems, common for the culture. Those who did not share these beliefs weren't considered human. Certainly an oath or promise required a common deity to be binding- trust requiring an equivalence of understanding. 



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> i'd abollish money - i cant say it causes greed, but it is catalyst that breeds it. without money, there will still be greedy people, but it would be a lot less evident, there would not be a problem of debt, or not enoug money for food or housing.



without money we rely on barter- but any society which has property will have inequality. Certainly housing would cease to constitute a difficulty, as presumably there wouldn't be any. Food, however would go to everyone in times of plenty, and in lean times the old, the weak and the badly connected would die of starvation and exposure.



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> we would not 'settle' as this polutes, destroys the earth and kills animals and plants - which we need to survive!


 
Indeed, agriculture enables a much higher population density- but in several corners of the world increased the diversity of wild plants and animals. Irrigation in particular brings in waterfowl and nasty biting insects, and if well done can continue for centuries improving the land for all its inhabitants, however many legs they may have. And every time a hunter gatherer culture has come in contact with a more sedentary tribe, or even nomadic herders, it's the former who have gone to the wall. For several not particularly meritous reasons- the fact that a society with greater surpluses and a larger population can field a larger army, the lower population densities not encouraging resistance to develope to dieases, the ability of a hierachical organisation and a currency based economy to coordinate available resources.



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> we would 'move wih the heard' living as hunter/gatherers, not allowing settlement which always leads to corruption in some form


 
Many native american tribesmen lived like that and have the most impressive record of large mammal extinction on the planet, until modern times. Man is just too good a hunter- mastodons, the camel things, the equines, big cats- nothing survived but bison, wolves and a few species of bear. (OK, I'll accept climate change as a factor- but climate change was everywhere, while the mass extinctions were concentrated in North America) And they warred between themselves, more so than their more settled neighbours down south (though these too missed exemplary in my rating of cultures)



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> the law/millitary/monarchy should not decide what is 'right' or what is 'wrong' - the reason being, there is no true right or wrong. this will be decided for the individual


 
With no fixed legal or moral system someone can (and, knowing humanity someone will) decide that, for him, murder, rape, or slavery are acceptable choices, and none can say him nay.  



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> there will be no hierachy other than a representing chieftan for each tribe/guild etc - but this person should not make the decisions soely, but be a voice for everyone else.


 
And each such chief needs to be a paragon of virtues, and pass this wisdom and probity on to his successor- who will, automatically be someone who doesn't want the job.If he's charismatic, there's no one above him but god, and you've removed the authority of god. If he isn't, it's effectively mob rule, with wide scope for witch hunts and victimisation. 



			
				AmonRa said:
			
		

> ...*oh if only in a perfect world...*



In short, there may be species on this planet of whom you could trust the members to give according to their abilities, and only take according to their needs- but homo sapiens is not one of them .
Oh, dear I have been negative again, haven't I? But I don't believe in anarchy as a workable system, except on a very limited scale (say, less than fifty people) Nor do I expect humans to work selflessly for the public good except very temporarily, in disasters or crises. And I consider myself optimistic.


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## Abstract (Dec 19, 2005)

An Empire? Hmmm...I would have a civilisation of the early man, primitives if you will, living in a peaceful colony of one another before technology and the modern developments came in and made everything shiny. We learned to live with nature then, and we would carry that on- living in caves, paining beautiful murals on the walls, hunting for what we needed, not for what we wanted... Money would be replaced with trading, and decisions would be made by a poll, or something along that line.

I know this may have a good deal of flaws to it, but it's what I'd want if I could.


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## direghost (Jan 4, 2006)

Hmm, starting from australia always works in Risk...but then I'd have to depend on my soldiers in Indonesia not having any drugs with them, which is always risky.
I think I'd start with Russia--the motherland defeated Hitler, Charles XII, Napoleon, and nearly every other invader.  (Mongols are the big exception, but even they were eventually driven out).  
For my political/economic structure, I'd simply import a group of experts and let them work it out.


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## cornelius (Jan 4, 2006)

I'd vote for chrispenycate, he knows everything.


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## Gwydion (Feb 21, 2006)

an empire that exercises peace through strength, based in north america, that would absorb other kingdoms and empires because of its beauty and prosperity. All who resist would be crushed, but those who want to join me can before i destroy the land. certain areas would be large cities, and farmland would be equally distributed among the people. taxes would be in the form of money and food, and it would all be fair. Christianity would be the main religion, but others would be tolerated. All officials, except the emperor, would be elected. the senate would suggest things to the emperor, which had been suggested to them by the people. any crooked senators would not be allowed in, and if the emperor fails to comply with the wishes of the people, the senate may overthrow him and crown a new emperor.


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## LeoCrow (Jun 6, 2006)

a small correction: the roman empire did not fall in italy. it was renamed into byzantine empire and was moved to byzantium.


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## Thunderchild (Jun 6, 2006)

LeoCrow said:
			
		

> a small correction: the roman empire did not fall in italy. it was renamed into byzantine empire and was moved to byzantium.



depends how you look at it - when it moved to byzantium it became the byzantine empire


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## scalem X (Jun 6, 2006)

I would ofcourse ward of all my responsabillity.
I would institute a dictatorship ruled by a friend.
Then every (a random period between 5 and 10 years) another friend should try to claim the dictatorship (it doesn't matter if he succeeds or not), keeping the people in ignorance about their true leader. So these people would think that the empire is going on like every other (and feel freed from a bad dictator if that'd be the case), yet they are actually commanded by me through a puppet.
Most of the time I'd forsake my duty though and spend time spending all my wealth.


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## j d worthington (Jun 6, 2006)

Abstract said:
			
		

> An Empire? Hmmm...I would have a civilisation of the early man, primitives if you will, living in a peaceful colony of one another before technology and the modern developments came in and made everything shiny. We learned to live with nature then, and we would carry that on- living in caves, paining beautiful murals on the walls, hunting for what we needed, not for what we wanted... Money would be replaced with trading, and decisions would be made by a poll, or something along that line.
> 
> I know this may have a good deal of flaws to it, but it's what I'd want if I could.


Um, I hate to be negative, but -- no, they didn't learn to "live with nature"; else we wouldn't have what we have. A primitive society would have no understanding of medicine, for one thing, so massive death from any pandemic that comes through; not to mention predators; and then there's the fact that it's pretty certain the cromagnon wiped out the neanderthalers, and both of these would, by most standards, be considered "primitive societies". While the idea of "back to nature" is very appealing (I have a large degree of that myself), it simply isn't workable. With primitive homo sapiens, we darn near didn't survive. How would we stave off the effects of the Ice Age, save by killing other living things for clothing and trekking southward, which would in turn mean conflict with those already there (limited food supply, droughts, lebensraum, etc., not to mention simple elemental and very natural greed/selfishness -- if you don't think this is about as basic a human drive as exists, try watching young children for a while; or even infants); not to mention the need for producing weapons for defense against those who disagree with you, as primitives are not particularly well-known for being guided by rational thought. (Neither are we, for that matter.) The only way to make a "living with nature" scenario work at all, is to have a rational understanding of the consequences of our interaction with nature, and that's something that's ultimately beyond our capabilities even now, though we have a better understanding than ever before. As for religion, as mentioned by someone else, it couldn't be left up to the individual as, if you'll look at human history, the majority of people want to be told what to believe, simply because it requires more time and energy than they have (what with trying to survive) to piece together a cosmology and morality/ethics of their own. Religion is the product of trying to understand how the universe (however limited or expansive that universe is in that culture's view) works, and only those who have leisure (due to the support of others, thereby allowing them to not spend 2/3 of their life simply laboring to survive) to examine and think would be able to come up with a workable system, however flawed. Then they have to pass it on to others who don't have that kind of leisure (or, sometimes -- being brutally honest -- the mental/emotional capacity to understand, let alone formulate such a thing for themselves). "All men (people) are created equal" is a political sentiment; it simply has no basis in reality as a physical fact. If it did, we'd all be on the same level, and no one would ever come up with anything new; nor would we ever have done so, and so we most likely would have suffered extinction by this point.

Chris, you are an optimist. The fact is that, given the nature of the physical universe and even understanding our flaws, this may well be the best of all possible worlds. (Which isn't to say we can't improve on what is, but simply that to confuse morality/ethics with what is best for survival of our species is chancy at best; to create a workable morality/ethics given the reality of human beings within the universe as it exists is the challenge.)


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## creslin_black (Jul 3, 2006)

When I think of any archetype for empire, I always look to fictional and non-fictional sources for inspiration.  I always look to Rome, for the eternal city is a passion of mine.  To me, being so admittedly Romanocentric in thought, every other example of western empire or fictional empire written like a western version of empire seems to trace it's roots to the eternal city.  Like the motto says, all roads lead to Rome.  My favorite conception of empire always comes out as an eternal Rome, such as that exemplified in Robert Silverberg's excellent novel _Roma Eterna._  In that novel, throught trials and tribulations large and small, the Empire weathers it all, and demonstrates that there is no reality other than Roman rule.  To me the book embodies that attitude which to me so identified Rome:  the will the subjugate and conquer _everything_, without exception.  As Vergil said in liber one of his Aeneid, "For these Romans I place neither limits in space nor time.  I have given them dominion without end."


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 3, 2006)

In my empire, everyone would worship me. The men would be slaves like that one old movie taht I so can not remember...oh darn it...

Planet Earth (1974)

http://indie.imdb.com/title/tt0072000/plotsummary

Hot dang I love google!

And Gene Roddenberry

That's my empire!


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## jof (Jul 19, 2006)

> livre » of bread in France



A book of bread?




My Empire...hmmmm

I would also abolish all currency and use a communist system (*gasps all around at the evil communists who eat your children *) I would act as a Dictator for the final say but would leave the running of the country down to the individual communes. Each person would do what job he wished with education being free and food the same. Religion would also be abolished but not frowned upon. Any large structures such as Cathedrals would be changed into some form of distribution centre so that the prolatariat could get there supplies and as such would remove religious spots and at the same time help the empire. I would train all of the prolatariat in arms and would issue every member a weapon with which to defend themselves. The prolatariat therefore could act as a fyrd and a standing army would need to be very minor. Missuse of the weapons would merit a public stoning and more rigourous punishments could be enforced for worse crimes voted by the commune.


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## star.torturer (Jul 19, 2006)

i would abolish curency in favour of freedom, processe cost nothing meaning prices are nothing, no internal combustion engines, just trains and cycle/walking. (also consider canals/rivers) no fositl fules, all either fusion or renewable. other stuff to come


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## electricdragon (Aug 23, 2006)

My "perfect empire" would be the strech over present day South East Asia and with Singapore as my Capital. I would exploit my rule over spices and manupilate the price and sell it for thousands to europeans (HAHAHA!!!).

Building the greatest navy ever, i would be the stopping for travellers between Arabia, INdia and China and would treat the traders with much respect. There will be no state religion and i encourage mixing of different ethics and religion. My empire will be ruled in provinces and rebellions will be put down with force. Making friends with the emperor of China, i will trade gold from Burma and spice from indonesia for silk and sell it to arabian and european travellers at a high price!!


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## HoopyFrood (Oct 20, 2006)

To be serious, or not to be serious...that is the question. 
Ah, let's do both...see if you can tell the difference 

Everyone would be equal. Vegetarianism would be complusory and taking an animal's life would be dealt with harshly (yes, my empire would be overrun with animals! Huzzah, in my opinion!). Killing humans...are what the heck, that's fine! 
Oh another note, Communism would be fine, living in communes, having no authority over other people and sharing the wealth...well sharing the materials, money could be done away with. There would be no religion. Racism, misognism, nationalism, fascism...well, most kinds of "isms" would not even exist. There would be no death penalty...in fact crime would be dealt with through rehabiliation rather than punishment (yes, I know, I'm an idealist! But please let me have my Utopia and be happy instead pointing out all it's failings!)

Ok, well Yaks and Horseshoe crabs would have a firm place in society...practically worshipped as Gods. Piracy would be rife (I myself would be a pirate with my own motely crew), there would be a national orange day every week when everyone dresses in that splendid colour. Smartcars would be the only car available. Cheese and pasta would be the favourite food of all. Laughing would be complusory. Anyone who didn't read would have their eyes gouged out (hehe). Horror films would be viewing choice of all (and the standard of horror would be greatly increased, I haven't seen a good recent horror film in ages! You just can't beat the classics!)

Anyway, I think that'll do.


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## Cozener (Oct 21, 2006)

Well...its important that an emperor have his priorties straight.  This I believe with all my heart. So my first order of business would have to be collecting my harem. 

I would force every woman that could bear children to have a child by a man of another race.  I'm sick of hearing people argue and bicker over who's what hue and I'd just as soon be done with it. 

I would allow people to follow whatever religion they liked but they would not be allowed to talk about their religions outside of their places of worship and their own homes...on pain of death.  This is another argument I'm sick of hearing so people just won't be allowed to discuss it publicly.  Anyone attempting to forcefeed his or her religion down someone else's throat will stripped naked, painted feusia, peppered with glitter, and forced to dance to "Its Raining Men" until they die from exhaustion. 

People may, for the most part, legistlate themselves at a local level as long as my first two directives are followed.  If you don't like your local laws you can move a county over where Dixieland music and public nudity are ok...or whatever. 

Everyone will have to speak whatever language I speak.  I don't care what additional languages they speak but if they're around me they will speak my language.  I know those bastards at the Chinese take-out place are talking about my nose and I'll abide it no longer. 

Everyone must call each other "cousin" followed by their first name.  I want everyone to feel like they're in one big happy family.  

All men under 5'11 must undergo psychological evaluations.  If it is found that your the type of short guy that compensates for his shortness by being an asshole you'll be shipped to the island of Elba.  I don't care if there's room there or not. 

Women will not be allowed to dye their hair without the approval of no less than six men of good standing in their community.  If approved, another court must be gathered to approve the desired color. 

Wonder-bras and wonder-panties will be outlawed.  So women don't think I'm picking on them, tupees, combovers, and hair transplants will also be outlawed (except mine)

Sushi will be the official national food. 



Ok...I think thats all for now.


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