# Further inquiry regarding female taste in sci-fi & fantasy



## apokalypsis (Jan 2, 2007)

As a slightly different twist on the thread discussing the number of female vs. male Sf/F fans out there, I'd like to ask the female fans how (or if) their enjoyment of SF/F affects their taste in other reading.

For example, are female SF/F fans more, or less, likely to enjoy Chick Lit (e.g. Bridget Jones' Diary, Devil Wears Prada)? How about romance? Westerns? Historical non-fiction? etc.

What other writing genres do you love?

What other writing genres do you hate?

...particularly of the genres that are stereotyped as having high fem-appeal.


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## nixie (Jan 2, 2007)

Well I for one don't like chick lit, nor romance.Occasionally I'm drawn to historical novels or thrillers.Love horror and books with a supernatural feel.


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm a very eclectic reader...for me, it's not about favourite genres but just books that are exciting and interesting. If you have prejudices against certain genres then you could be missing out on some brilliant books because of it...

*Stuggles*

All right, all right. My favourite genre is Horror...Stephen King is without a doubt my favourite author.
...and yes, I detest 'Chick-Lit' (I also detest that phrase...ugh) Romance novels...blergh, I steer clear of them, as a rule. However, I have read a couple of books in this genre (you know the type, the ones you get free with magazines) and I have thoroughly enjoyed them, so like I said above, sometimes it's not wise to have such prejudices because you miss out on some great books.

Well, anyway to cut a long ramble short, hand me a book, any book, and I'm likely to read it!


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## kythe (Jan 2, 2007)

I don't read "chick lit" or romance either.  To me, they are a waste of time since you don't learn anything or really gain anything from reading them.  Now that's not to say that all sci-fi or fantasy books are high quality, but I prefer books that make you think, that involve character and plot development.  I am also highly imaginative, so I like stories with fantasy or futuristic settings.


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 2, 2007)

Ah, no...I've only just noticed that mistake, and it's too late to edit!...usually I don't care, but this one's quite obvious...I clearly meant 'struggles', not 'stuggles'!!


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## dustinzgirl (Jan 2, 2007)

Well I am a chick, but Im not very girly. I hate romantic books, my mom reads them all the time and they make me want to throw up. Bridget Jone's Diary I saw because my sister wanted to watch it on ppv and I seriously thought "dear god when is this girl going to get some cohonas and kick him in the nads?"

Im more a horror and fantasy person. I want to see more strong female characters in horror and fantasy, for example Susanne/odetta from king's dark tower, Kirsty from hellraiser (she was a wimp and then she was like, screw you!), Catabrie from the dark elf series, ect.....

Plus, being totally my father's daughter, I like stories with battles and fights and dragons and bad-guy butt-kickery! 

PS: Im a total prude, i can't stand books with that nasty transfer of bodily fluids in them.....yuck!


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 2, 2007)

Yes, hand me action over poor swooning women any day. I've never watched Bridget Jone's diary and I have no desire to...or the other "Chick-Flicks" (argh I hate these stupid phrases!!) 

And I agree with Dustinzgirl, I'd much rather see a strong female character.


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## apokalypsis (Jan 3, 2007)

Iiiinteresting. [drumming fingertips against each other] So Tolkien was on the right track when he gave us more Eowyn and less Arwen, tho' Jackson tried to broaden the appeal by focusing on Arwen, and of course, Orlando Bloom.

Kind of explains the perennial appeal of characters like Trinity in _The Matrix_ trilogy, Molly in _Neuromancer, _and the likes of Xena or Buffy the vampire slayer.

No Elizabeth Bennett?

I had thought that many SF/F characterizations of women were rather wooden, or designed to appeal to a certain type of guy -- but then again, I'm not well acquainted with as many of the female SF/F authors. (And it's really hard to write about this without accidentally treading on some stereotype or sounding prejudiced in one way or the other.) Is it possible that _Chicks in Chain Mail_ and the like have as much of a female following as an adolescent-boy following?

Then again, even my guy friends who like Jane Austen aren't into SF/F as much... Maybe there's a general divide between people who like sappy, happy-ending stories and people who enjoy a good dark fantasy or post-apocalyptic dystopia. (But that wouldn't help explain my tastes in reading.)


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## Dr. Atomic (Jan 3, 2007)

HoopyFrood - Would you be okay if romances or "chick lit" (ugh, what a name...) ended with some sort of zombie apocalypse? 

Something along the lines of _Bridget Jones' Necronomicon_?

Heck, _I'd_ read that...

Now, who's gonna step up and write the thing...?


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## DragonRhapsody (Jan 3, 2007)

I enjoy a good Nora Roberts book every couple months or so! XD

LOL That's definate 'chick lit' for ya! <3 {and so so yummy!}

I also like thrillers and mysteries. I have a few Mary Higgens Clark novels, and some other random authors. I do love my sci-fi and fantasy though. I have tons of Ann McCaffery, Anne Rice, Katharine Kerr, Clive Baker {really fun and twisted!}, Kate Forsyth and Jack L Chalker! ^__^ {Those are my faves!}

OH! And how could I forget my all time favourite: *Robert Jordan*! <3333


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## manephelien (Jan 3, 2007)

I mainly read science-fiction, fantasy and mystery/action/crime novels. I usually steer clear of romance, although it has been said that Anne McCaffrey's characters are straight from Mills and Boon, and while I agree some of them are rather stereotypical, with plenty of "strong man tames strong woman, who no longer has anything interesting to contribute," I couldn't judge further than that, since I've never read Mills and Boon or anything written by Danielle Steel or Barbara Cartland. I never managed to finish Bridget Jones, either movie or book.


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## Nikitta (Jan 3, 2007)

Generally, I can't stand chick-lit or chick-flicks. I also can't stand crime fiction.

What I do like is Sci-Fi and Fantasy with a good pace, some good battles and a good dose of humour or dark, twisted stories that make me stop and think (or Sci-Fi or fantasy with a good pace... etc that makes me stop and think  )

I don't really think that one has affected the other, as both probably spring from me being -uhm- me.

Come to think of it, I think that the vast majority of what I read is written by men. Funny.

Edit: This is my post no. 42! Wo-hoo!


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## dwndrgn (Jan 3, 2007)

I like just about all of it.  I'll read romance, chick-lit, historical mystery/fantasy/etc., fantasy, scifi, psychological horror (too much blood and gore and I'll toss the book), whatever.  All I want is interesting characters and a good story.  I don't care if they are female, male or generic.


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## SpaceShip (Jan 3, 2007)

I have two sons and we all read the same types of books - so it's handy to pass around and works out cheaper that way - we like Bernard Cornwell and Wilbur Smith - for those who don't know, they write novels based around actual historical events.  So anything similar by other authors is fine.  Like me, they both also like fantasy and SF and love SK.  Hate CL (refuse to spell it out - terrible phrase) and, as my mum says "wimmins' books".


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## BookStop (Jan 3, 2007)

I generally read a little of everything (except cheesy romance like penny jordan and daniel steel - yuck). For years I was stuck in the medical thriller corner, especially if it had a bit of a sf bent, but I'm afraid my husband has finally gotten me to broaden my genre appreciation. I'll pretty much read anything if it's smart and thrilling. My 2 fav books of 2006 were The Poisonwood Bible (not sff at all) and The Time Travellers Wife(peripherally sf, but really a relationship story) , although I also enjoyed the Odd Thomas' and Cowboy Feng - maybe more traditional -

One thing I really don't care for in fantasy is the objectification of women. (you know, the perfect heroine)Don't know why it bugs me so; I have no problem with men 

Oh - and I love the movie Bridget Jones' Diary - hello Colin Firth! Oh, and Renee Z playing a pleasantly curvey nuerotic is nice too.


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 3, 2007)

Dr. Atomic said:


> HoopyFrood - Would you be okay if romances or "chick lit" (ugh, what a name...) ended with some sort of zombie apocalypse?


 
Zombie apocalypse? Hell yeah, that's the best kind!


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## Mouse (Jan 3, 2007)

Hate chick-lit and romance too! Much rather have a good book with lots of blood and guts!  Also cannot stand chick flicks! Much rather have a good martial arts film!


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 3, 2007)

Yeah, give me blood, guts and gore any day (in both books and films )


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## Mouse (Jan 3, 2007)

Definately! 
Also, any book where dead people come alive and start wandering about is great! In fact, looking at my selection of books next to me on the shelf, most of them seem to have dead things that come alive in them . . .


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## apokalypsis (Jan 3, 2007)

Mouse said:


> Definately!
> Also, any book where dead people come alive and start wandering about is great! In fact, looking at my selection of books next to me on the shelf, most of them seem to have dead things that come alive in them . . .


 
Hurrah for Tim Burton's Corpse Bride and Laura Moon (in Gaiman's _American Gods_)!


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## apokalypsis (Jan 3, 2007)

dwndrgn said:


> All I want is interesting characters and a good story. I don't care if they are female, male or generic.


 
Umm, what's "generic"? Is that as in asexual? Reproduces by cellular division? (Got a little lost there.) Or would that be like creatures that are both female and male at the same time?


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## Nikitta (Jan 3, 2007)

HoopyFrood said:


> Zombie apocalypse? Hell yeah, that's the best kind!



Someone should write a book or make a movie with zombie ninjas*. I'd read it.

*concept came up during an odd discussion.

Okay, so they might be more fun than scary, due to the "natural" slow tempo and clumsiness of zombies not going very well with being a ninja, but I still want to see a book or movie with them.


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## HoopyFrood (Jan 3, 2007)

Mind you, the Zombies in the remake of *Dawn of the Dead* are able to run, (and that's evil, at least before you could run away from them, but now they chase after you!) and the ones in *Land of the Dead* could use weapons, so perhaps Ninja zombies wouldn't be so funny after all!


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## Alurny (Jan 3, 2007)

Mouse said:


> Hate chick-lit and romance too! Much rather have a good book with lots of blood and guts!  Also cannot stand chick flicks! Much rather have a good martial arts film!



You sound like my best friend


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## littlemissattitude (Jan 4, 2007)

Oh, let's see...to begin with, as much as I love science fiction and some subgenres of fantasy, I read more non-fiction than fiction.  I don't know if I read it because that's mostly what I write, or if that's mostly what I write because it is mostly what I read.  It's one of those chicken/egg things, I suppose.  And I'll read almost any subject, although my favorites are history, science, anthropology/archaeology, religious studies (from an academic point of view, rather than from a devotional point of view) and political science.

As far as fiction (aside from sf/fantasy) goes, I don't read that much mainstream fiction.  I'm much more likely to read mainstream fiction if it touches on one of my non-fiction interests.  For example, I recently read a mainstream novel called _Resurrection_ because it a) had archaeologists in it, b) was set in the past (post-WW II), and c) had to do with the Nag Hammadi texts.  It also helps if it has some quasi-sf/fantasy aspect, such as _The Time Traveler's Wife_, which was one of the best books I read last year.

I like mysteries and police procedurals, but I'm particular about which ones I read and mostly stick to certain authors...I like Faye Kellerman, Jonathan Kellerman, Kathy Reichs (in whose books anthropology/archaeology is a key aspect), Stephen White, and Robert B. Parker (but only his "Spencer" novels).  Oh, and Tony Hillerman and his novels about Jim Chee and Joe Leaphorn.  Some Native Americans have issues with his depiction of Indian culture and characters, but I guess since I'm not a Native American I don't see the problem, and I quite like those books of his that I've read.  Every once in awhile I'll happen on a new writer who gets added to the list, but not often.

Romance...meh.  I read a lot of what we called "gothics" back in high school, writers like Victoria Holt, but I outgrew those sometime during high school.  I do like books in which there are romantic relationships, but not often novels that are part of the "romance" genre.  I discovered Kage Baker's "Company" novels when I picked up the first one and thought it sounded interesting because it was an odd combination of romance novel, historical novel, and science fiction.

I'm not even really sure what "chick-lit" consists of.  Is _Bridget Jones' Diary_ an example?  I liked the movie, but never was able to finish the book.

Horror is another genre that I'm very picky about.  Love Stephen King, although I haven't read many of his new things simply because I haven't gotten around to them.  And I love Clive Barker (what did somebody say earlier about him..."fun and twisted"...he is that.  Although I couldn't read _The Great and Secret Show_ because he didn't do his homework as far as I was concerned...he used the name of the place I grew up as a location but didn't get the geography right, which ticked me off horribly.  I've read some Dean Koontz and like some of his books, but I don't pick his work up on a regular basis.

I've never read a western.  Well, I did read one Louis L'Amour novel, but that was _The Haunted Mesa_, which was set in contemporary times and is actually a fantasy novel...there's time and/or interdimensional travel involved.

Adventure is fun, and I'm fairly well addicted to Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt novels, despite the inherent sexism in some of them, especially the earlier stories.

I could go on...don't worry, I won't.  I guess it all boils down to the fact that I'll give almost any genre a try, but I'm sometimes very difficult to please.


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## HappyHippo (Jan 4, 2007)

"Adventure is fun, and I'm fairly well addicted to Clive Cussler's Dirk Pitt novels, despite the inherent sexism in some of them, especially the earlier stories."

My other half has a shelf of these, I'm terribly snobbish, and refer to them as 'Spot goes Shopping' books. However, I will read them when I run out of my regular fare. It's a guilty pleasure, like belgian choc ice cream eaten whilst in pajamas.

I prefer fantasy to sci-fi, and the bulf of my libraary is in these genres, but I do read 'meaty' romances, as a mills and boon only takes half an hour and no brain cells! I also like historical stuff, biographies, hmmm... cereal packets, posters, tv guides.

I can and will read most things!

I've read a couple of Clive Barker's things, but found them really disturbing,  and I enjoy sagas, purely due to the length, I like really getting into a character. 'Chick-lit' is a balnket term, I suppose like sci-fi; it covers a HUUUUGE range of authors, topics, books... some are trash, some are gems. (heretically, I'd count LOTR as trash, and William Shatner's 'Tek' books as gems! which tells you alot about my taste) And I'll attempt to read anything once, just because I can't stand the sight of an unread book.


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## littlemissattitude (Jan 4, 2007)

HappyHippo said:


> It's a guilty pleasure, like belgian choc ice cream eaten whilst in pajamas.



That's exactly my position on Cussler's books.  I read them, but I won't use one of them as my "carry around" book.

Barker...well, some of what he writes is, you're correct, quite disturbing.  But I thought that was the whole thing about horror.  Just me, maybe.  I don't find most horror "scary", but Barker is the only writer, ever, to have something he wrote give me a bad dream.  But, if you like sagas, you might want to tackle his _Imagica_ sometime...amazing book, over 1000 pages long.  Some editions are sold in two volumes, it is so long.


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## Kitera (Jan 4, 2007)

Hmm reading just romance by itself is often tedious. I enjoy more of the action/adventure types of novels with a mix of fantasy, comedy and romance. Those are the best and most enjoyable in my opinion.


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## Mouse (Jan 4, 2007)

Zombie ninjas?! That sounds brilliant!


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## Nikitta (Jan 4, 2007)

HoopyFrood said:


> Mind you, the Zombies in the remake of *Dawn of the Dead* are able to run, (and that's evil, at least before you could run away from them, but now they chase after you!) and the ones in *Land of the Dead* could use weapons, so perhaps Ninja zombies wouldn't be so funny after all!



There's a remake of Dawn of the Dead? I need to see that!


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## HappyHippo (Jan 4, 2007)

littlemissattitude said:


> That's exactly my position on Cussler's books. I read them, but I won't use one of them as my "carry around" book.
> 
> Barker...well, some of what he writes is, you're correct, quite disturbing. But I thought that was the whole thing about horror. Just me, maybe. I don't find most horror "scary", but Barker is the only writer, ever, to have something he wrote give me a bad dream. But, if you like sagas, you might want to tackle his _Imagica_ sometime...amazing book, over 1000 pages long. Some editions are sold in two volumes, it is so long.


 
I tried imajica, bits of it were really beautiful, he writes relationships very well. I think the one that turned me off for good was the book that became Hellraiser? It was 'normally' scary and odd and then it got to a bit with a woman and a dog (I think it was that one). I'm a Christian, but not mentally rabid about it or anything, but at that point my internal censor kicked in. I don't mind being scared, but that was totally beyond my tolerance limit.

Another guilty pleasure is bodice rippers, but NOT EVER EVER Barbara Cartland!


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## elvet (Jan 5, 2007)

I love classic British-style mysteries (P.D. James, Elizabeth George, Martha Grimes) and a few other authors - Nevada Barr, Kathy Reichs, Sue Grafton.
I do like some chick-lit, but as for romance, I prefer it as an additive in another genre - not really by itself.


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## Allegra (Jan 5, 2007)

I read all the genres even non-fictions as long as it's well written and worth my time, but very rarely romance and western. Most of novels I read are fantasy, mainstream literature, classic, S.F., horror, mystery, thriller. My preference in fantasy is the satirical, humourous, light-hearted type. Not really a serious epic reader - never read George R.R. Martin, Robert Jordan.


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## Carolyn Hill (Jan 5, 2007)

I read tons of science fiction and fantasy and prefer those genres to all others, so I don't have much time for other reading.  

But I do enjoy the occasional mystery (particularly by Tony Hillerman, P.D. James, or Peter Dickinson), and  I have read and adored all of Dorothy Sayers's Lord Peter Wimsey novels.  

I haven't read any modern mainstream "chick lit" that I know of, but I have read and enjoyed women-centric novels by Amy Tam, the Bronte sisters, Virginia Woolf, Toni Morrison, Isabel Allende, Alice Walker, Barbara Kingsolver, and so on.

I read the longer sort of historical romance novels by certain authors, especially Laura Kinsale.

I don't read horror.  I don't enjoy it.  But I do read what some consider a subcategory of horror/fantasy that often crosses over into romance:  series in which kick-ass female protagonists deal with supernatural menaces such as vampires, werewolves, and the like, often in bloody and creepifying fashion.  Some authors I read in that subgenre are Kim Harrison, Kelley Armstrong, C.E. Murphy, Barb and J.C. Hendee, Charlaine Harris, and the early Laurell K. Hamilton.

I enjoy--but don't require--romantic elements in SFF.  Sharon Lee and Steve Miller's books are some of my favorite SFF books with romantic elements, as are works by Catherine Asaro, Tanya Huff, Nina Kiriki Hoffman, Teresa Edgerton, and Karin Lowachee.  Early works by Anne McCaffrey, such as _Restoree_ and the Crystal Singer series, also fit in this category, but I've stopped reading her newer works.

So, yes, I do read what some might consider novels aimed at women, but I also read a large amount of hard science fiction that others would consider aimed at men, such as works by Charles Sheffield, Larry Niven, Jack McDevitt, and--oh, there are too many to name.

The one kind of fantasy I don't usually read or enjoy is epic fantasy that's mostly about battles.  Blood and guts for bloody guts' sake doesn't interest me.

Oh, and on the Eowyn versus Arwen question:  I never was happy that Aragorn ended up with Arwen! Eowyn _rocks_.


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## Rosemary (Jan 5, 2007)

I definately don't like those 'chic lit' books.  I'd rather read the local newspaper!  On the other hand, I have enjoyed reading many Fantasy books written by female authors...Sara Douglass, Cecilia Dart-Thorton, Janny Wurts and Jennifer Fallon, to name but a few. Most of these books have a strong female character which is great.

This is another reason why I enjoy historical fiction which are often based around the story of a famous (or infamous) female.


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## K. Riehl (Jan 11, 2007)

How about C. J. Cherryh? She writes hyper-competent female protagonist novels and, as a guy, it's refreshing to see the viewpoint.


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## Pyan (Jan 11, 2007)

Or Elizabeth Moon - ditto.


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## Specfiction (Jan 12, 2007)

I'd like to turn this around a little. What, in a genre that a particular woman likes, turns her off. In other words, imagine picking a book up, where, all things being equal, you really expect to like it. Then, in the mists of enjoyment, you encounter ??????????? It ruins it for you. What is ?????????


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## HappyHippo (Jan 13, 2007)

I'm probably a bit of a prude, but I hate it when sex is randomly lobbed into a story. 

Some books, I kinda expect some sex in them, for example, chick-lit. But in fantasy and sci-fi, it's really difficult to achieve in context, so I get very annoyed by irrelevant and/or badly written sex in a fantsy novel! 

I wish I could express this more coherently, apologies people.


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## Specfiction (Jan 13, 2007)

What about mainstream SF? By that I mean SF that written like a mystery or thriller, or something that let's say Sagan would write. A story where people are realistically portrayed, as are relations between men and women. If you reflect on what may be awkwardly real in your own life in terms of relationships--do women find that inappropriate in a SF novels?


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## Nikitta (Jan 15, 2007)

The sub-plot of "Boy and girl meet, hate each other at first, but grow to love each other through shared hardship". Just don't go there! It makes me put down the book and not pick it up again.

Suddenly moving a character to a different place without first mentioning him/her going there or describing the place.

I have no problems with sex in a story, as long at it fits naturally into the story and is kept to what is strictly relevant to the story.


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## Nesacat (Jan 15, 2007)

Am not very fond of chick-lit and detest the title of the genre to boot. Always have visions of fuzzy yellow chickens sitting in neat rows reading books by Marian Keyes or Sophie Kinsella. Am not much of a fan of romance novels either though I have to admit that the covers are fascinating the way train wrecks are.

I like the long convoluted Asian epics and I really love the classic British whodunits. I also read ancient history and myth and cookbooks.


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## Junomidge (Jan 15, 2007)

I loved the Bridget Jones series personally. I also read quite a few of the Sophie Kinsella books. If I'm not reading Sci-Fi or fantasy, I really enjoy Joanne Harris.

For Sci-Fi/Fantasy I grew up with Robin McKinley, Pamela Kaufman and others who tended to place a teenaged female into the main character spot.. Sydney J. van Scyoc is one who is no longer writing, but who had quite a few strong woman protagonists. 

I am finding that I gravitate to post-apocalyptic themes or harder Sci-Fi (old Arthur C. Clarke, etc.) than I used to. I used to be able to read Piers Anthony and Anne McCaffery, but couldn't read more than a page or two these days.


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## HappyHippo (Jan 18, 2007)

Just picked up a book by JV Jones, who's a female author, and found the book very hard to read. She writes, what I find to be, quite shocking violence and sadism. Although it was necessary for the story line, I nearly didn't stick with the book. Also, she seems to be overly fond of all derivations of the word 'urine'; it was smelling, trickling down peoples' legs, freezing in the cold, and staining clothes all over the place.

That's one of my BIG peeves; overusage of a word. I have a tendency to use '...' a lot when typing, and it bugs me when I notice it, but I hate authors doing similar. When I was a kid and I read my mum's mills and boon books, Penny Jordans' heroines were always having 'frissons'... four or five times in a book! USE A THESAURUS, AUTHORS!!!! (note non-intentional use of ..., sorry)


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## ambershadow (Jan 20, 2007)

I read just about anything except romance. I like mystery, action,horror, anything that has excitment in it.


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## Daisy-Boo (Sep 29, 2009)

There seems to be a general dislike of chick-lit. Hooray! I don't like terms such as chick-lit, chick-flick or any term with chick in it. As far as I'm concerned, a chick is a baby bird, not a human female. 

I read widely, fiction and non-fiction. In non-fiction I enjoy science, technology, politics, history, social sciences and the occasional biography and memoir. I love Bill Bryson's books - his travel and language books. At the moment I'm doing a quite a lot of reading about psychopathy.

Fiction - thrillers, crime, horror, SFF, novels, some of the classics.

A few favourite non-SFF fiction authors: 

Kathy Reichs
Ian Rankin
John Connolly (though his books veer into the Fantasy genre)
Isla Dewar
Joanna Trollope
Elizabeth Berg
Jane Smiley
Jane Hamilton
Peter Robinson
Faye Kellerman
Dennis Lehane
Alice Sebold
Patricia Cornwell (I have a love/hate relationship with her books)
Ruth Rendell
Lynda la Plante
PD James
Stieg Larsson
Yrsa Sigurðardóttir
Arnaldur Indriðason


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## The Procrastinator (Sep 30, 2009)

SF and fantasy are equal favourites for me, and I prefer them to anything else. Having said that, I do enjoy good thrillers, mysteries, and crime fiction (Rankin is my fave at the moment), with the (very) occasional dose of chicklit to lighten the mix. (Bridget Jones' Diary made me laugh and laugh - and I didn't mind the movie, either). I have to say there are certain times of the month when I just like to read a bit of pap, so I have a bit of Nora Roberts squirreled away for emergencies, like a chocolate stash. 

Basically if its well written, good characters, good story, I'll read it and enjoy it. I like humour (love Austen) but am not so keen of lashings of sentiment (parts of Jane Eyre make me sick, and I can only really read romance novels if the moon is right). Can't deal with horror on the whole - I get too disturbed. Or it just makes me sick and I don't see the point. 

But if I had to choose - it would be SFF.


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## Sparrow (Sep 30, 2009)

> Daisy-Boo~ Patricia Cornwell (I have a love/hate relationship with her books)




Have you ever read Portrait Of a Killer?

It's about her theory concerning the identity of Jack the Ripper and how and why the murders occurred.  She took a real pounding from Ripper buffs over some of her assertions, but validity aside I thought it was a great book.


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## Daisy-Boo (Sep 30, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> Have you ever read Portrait Of a Killer?


 
I haven't read that book though I've seen it on the shelves. I read a few books about Jack the Ripper and those satisfied my curiosity.


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## Kei (Nov 16, 2009)

I've been reading science fiction and fantasy since I was a child, and my father stuffed The Hobbit into my little hands. He also had me reading the classics, and while I did love William Saroyan's The Human Comedy, nothing stuck with me so much as sff stories. 

Other than Jane Austen, I'm not huge of romantic stories. Not really big on any other form of fiction either, except perhaps historical fiction. I mainly read non-fiction books on scientific topics. Even inside the genres I like, I'm a very picky reader. If I don't like something, I tend not to finish reading it.


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## TheDustyZebra (Nov 29, 2009)

Well, I've never been a typical female, so it's hard to say what anybody might learn from my favorites list.

I read mostly sf and mysteries, and in the last couple of years a lot of what I call "crime fiction" or "cop fiction"--not exactly mysteries, because you generally know who did it but they spend the whole book catching them.

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head, in not-quite particular order:

Robert Heinlein
Spider Robinson
David Weber
Lois McMaster Bujold
Piers Anthony
Orson Scott Card
Michael Crichton
Jeffrey Deaver
John Grisham
John Irving
Pat Conroy
Ann Rule
Connie Willis
Michael Palmer
John D. MacDonald
Dorothy Gilman
Robert Asprin
Clifford Simak (funny, how far down the list considering username here)
Ray Bradbury
Stephen King
Harry Harrison
Steven Saylor
C.J. Cherryh
Douglas Adams

These are the people whose books I have in droves--I'm sure there are a few more that escape my attention at the moment. I notice that only four women made the list. But I have been known to read romance novels, from time to time--Danielle Steel actually wrote at least one very good historical sort of romance, The Ring, and I do love Gone With The Wind and, oddly, love even more the much-maligned sequel, Scarlett. But as someone else said earlier here, put a book in my hand and I will read it. Heck, put a cereal box in my hand and I will read it.


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## Pyan (Nov 29, 2009)

_Four_ women? I make it *five*, (Bujold, Rule, Willis, Gilman and Cherryh). 

Unless you know something about one of them that I don't...

Good list, though...


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## TheDustyZebra (Nov 29, 2009)

Ha, you're right! I believe I was thinking four and then added Cherryh to the list and forgot to count her. She might be a bit displeased at the sudden transformation.


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## Lioness (Dec 17, 2009)

Dr. Atomic said:


> Something along the lines of _Bridget Jones' Necronomicon_?



Just a thought...is this perhaps where the idea for _Pride & Prejudice & Zombies_ came from?


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## Worldbuilder (Mar 18, 2010)

I like sf more than f. I just started a discussion exploring why I read more male authors than female authors. I like WWII espionage novels, historical fiction, biographies, anything by Daphne DuMaurier, especially Glass Blowers, which is historical fiction. Because I review SF, tough, I rarely have the opportunity to others. On the other hand, those I have said yes to, that were offered for review that were outside of my genre have tended toward novels set in different cultures and historical fiction. And I won't touch a romance novel with a ten-foot pole, but found a SF romance author I like, so I make exceptions for her. I like her sense of humor and her protags. I don't read mysteries, but it's mostly because I'm afraid I'd like them too much.


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## dwndrgn (Mar 19, 2010)

There are very few things I can't read - horror, non-fiction, and straight 'novel' type fiction, especially those that have The Novel in the title.

Anything else with humor, monsters, magic, dragons, wars, battles, assassins, history, time travel, romance, alternate history, mysteries, thieves, wizards and whatnot.  Anything, basically, that is not a part of my normal life (or the normal life of some person I don't care about) pretty much anything that is well-written and enjoyable but _different_ and not about to give me nightmares


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## Pyan (Mar 19, 2010)

Agree absolutely, dwndrgn.

To paraphrase a quote I once read (no idea who said it, though):



> I don't want to read about nasty boring people leading nasty boring lives in nasty boring places - I get all that in _my_ everyday nasty boring life...


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## GrownUp (Mar 19, 2010)

I don't know who is reading the chick lit. Someone must be reading it. I've seen 2 people on the tube reading things with purple covers and sillhouettes of shoes on the front with script titles like 'something shopping' or 'secret something'. But they were both boys. 

You see the books in the shops. I'll believe that in the 60s and 70s (and before/after?) zillions read Mills & Boone. But chick lit now? Who has witnessed anyone reading it?


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## Daisy-Boo (Mar 19, 2010)

I've seen people reading books with chick lit covers - all women, as far as I can remember. 

When I was in my teens I sometimes read Harlequin romances and other books in that vein. They made for entertaining reading for a period of time. In my teens and 20s I also read some Jilly Cooper, Jackie Collins, Judith Krantz and Jacqueline Susann. That's about it for me and chick lit.


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## Rackon (Apr 5, 2010)

Confession: I'm not really sure what chick-lit is...*actually* is.

Never read romance. Never read Bridget Jones Diary. Couldn't get through page one of The Bridges Of Madison County it was so poorly written - but I'd have to say the same of the DaVinci code.

So what's chick-lit again?

Genres geared to women?? Like...romance??? What?

I love books by Jane Austen and George Elliot, Edith Wharton and Toni Morrison: literature written by women but not chick-lit.

I read some current literature/fiction, lots of SF & fantasy (about which I am very picky), mysteries, non-fiction (history, biography, current events, science) and historical novels. I don't like horror very much, but I like atmospheric ghost stories a great deal (The Innocents). Don't like most current best sellers, in fact, but there are terrific books that still come out. 

My two favorite historical novelists are Patrick O'Brien (Aubrey-Maturin series) and Dorothy Dunnett (Lymond Chronicles and House of Niccolo), both, alas, deceased. I've also enjoyed Bernard Cornwell's books and C S Forresters Horatio Hornblower novels, alhtough they are not as well written as either O'Brien's or Dunnett's. (I am very fond of tall ship tales in general as well as stories set during the Napoleonic wars). 

I read a fair number of the usual English lit suspects: Dickens and Twain especially but also Thackery, Fieldin and 20th century authors like Evelyn Waugh and Graham Green, even Margaret Atwood. I also read a fair amount of poetry, from Shakespeare and Donne to Wallace Stevens and W H Auden.

I love the old mysteries of Dorothy Sayers, Josephine Tey and Nagaio Marsh. I like more recent ones by P.D. James, Lawrence Block and Dennis Lehane. I adore the comic heist novels of Donald Westlake. Another author dear to my heart is John Mortimer, most familier from his Rumpole Of The Baily books but author of other fine novels as well.

I don't think there is ONE specific thing in a book that would turn me off except rampant prejudice or bad writing, anything that was preposterous, silly, out of place or poorly thought out - all examples of poor writing IMO. And there would be more than one instance of that in any given book. Sex per se, violence per se, strangeness per se = not an issue except where its (again) extraneous to the story which is (again) further evidence of poor writing.

I'm mainly intereted in "good", well written books, of almost any genre. 

Here are some of my favorite SF & F authors, male and female:

Iain M Banks
Sheri Tepper (selective here, the ones I like I LOVE, some are too polemic)
Vernor Vinge
Ursula K LeGuin
Roger Zelazny
Ray Bradbury
Alfred Bester
Dan Simmons
Samuel R Delaney
Orson Scott Card
John Harrison
Mary Doria Russell
Michael Moorcock (Dancers At The End Of Time, mainly, not the S&S)
John Harrison
Octavia Butler
Theodore Sturgeon
George Effinger
Frederick Pohl
Phillip K Dick
Robert Silverberg
Brian Aldiss
Walter Tevis

Hmm..there's a lot of classic SF authors in there...

And there are many other authors who have moved and/or inspired me with perhaps a single book who are not on the list.

And lest you think I'm too artsy fartsy I have several Star Trek books I will never part with including Ishmael, Strangers From The Sky and the Entropy Effect.

But no chick-lit.

OK, I did read The Joy Luck Club, and I did cry, but my mother was dying. That's as close as I've ever gotten to chick-lit.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 6, 2010)

In my opinion, if it has a cover depicting a thin young woman, high heels, shopping bags and/or cocktail glasses then you can safely assume its chick-lit.

Also, I realised that the root of my intense dislike of terms like chick-lit, chick-flicks, etc. is that it's a means of excluding women from the mainstream. I think it says: literature and films are mainly for and by men but here you go...here's something you ladies can enjoy too. See? it's about shopping and fashion and relationships and all that other stuff ladies are obsessed with.

Frankly I find it all very insulting. I read books that I enjoy, no matter who writes them or who the readership is _intended_ to be. I watch films I enjoy, no matter what the genre. I don't like being told there is a genre of book or film I'm _supposed_ to like simply because I have lady parts. I suspect that most women feel as I do so I think it's high time the publishing and film industries removed their collective heads from their collective...behinds, and simply concentrated on producing good books and films. Full stop.


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## RcGrant (Apr 7, 2010)

Chick-lit? Yuck! No thanks. Same for the ye-olde-typical romance novels. Don't like historical fiction either. Also never liked the Dan Brown thing, and all the off-shots. 

I read a lot of fantasy, but it tends to be young adult fantasy because that's the genre I am writing in. Young adult fiction in general, actually. I've found some incredibly exciting books have been coming out. 

I read a lot of non-fiction: psychology, philosophy, and true crime. I like mythology and folklore. Fairytales.

I like the classics: two of my favourite books ever are "Lolita" and "Great Expectations". I like Shakespeare too. 

Hm. Manga? lol


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 7, 2010)

Daisy-Boo said:


> I don't like being told there is a genre of book or film I'm _supposed_ to like simply because I have lady parts. I suspect that most women feel as I do



The popularity of chick-lit, and more to the point, the sales figures (which is where the publishing industry focuses its attention) would say otherwise.

As for romance novels ... SF/Paranormal Romance is very, very popular right now.  I don't know if it's bringing more female readers to the broader SFF genre, or crowding other SFF off the shelves, or simply creating a niche market that fills space that would otherwise go to more traditional romance novels.  A publisher or the manager of a large chain bookstore would be able to answer that.

So I think there is a difference right now between SFF readers who happen to be women (of which there have always been more than the outside world acknowledges), and women who read SFF that is written specifically with female readers in mind.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 8, 2010)

Teresa, I agree that "chick-lit" books sell but that doesn't negate my original point: that the books are aimed solely at women, on the assumption that we're all interested in the same themes of men, relationships, shopping, dieting and all the other cliches of the genre. I hate having it assumed that I must like something or want something simply because I'm a woman. 

Also, there is the assumption that only women read these books. How can we be sure that women are the only ones who read chick-lit? They probably make up the majority who _buy_ the books but who knows who _reads_ those same books afterwards?


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 8, 2010)

Daisy-Boo said:


> on the assumption that we're all interested in the same themes



But they aren't making that assumption.  They are making the assumption (which turns out to be quite correct) that enough women are interested in those themes for such books to sell very well, and keep their publishing houses in business.



> but who knows who _reads_ those same books afterwards?



I don't believe that publishers care very much who reads the books afterward.  They don't make money from the person who borrows the book from a friend, or who buys the book at a second-hand book shop.  The most that can be hoped is that they will help publicize the book via word of mouth, but since they take longer to get the book it may be too late to do much good. It's the people who actually buy the books new that really matter, because these are the readers who pay the publishers to keep publishing more of the same, and who help provide (free) the vital early publicity.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 8, 2010)

You make very good, logical points. _Damn you! *shakes fist*_


You're right in your assessment of the publishers' point of view. They publish what sells, regardless of who actually reads the product. It's all about the numbers.

Yet, I still abhor the entire "chick-whatsit" marketing angle. Anecdotal experience doesn't replace hard stats but the advertising for chick-lit books and films has soured me on the genre forever. Also, when discussing books with other people (IRL, not on the Chrons) I've all too often come up against that assumption that I obviously read chick-lit because hey, I'm a woman. I think those assumptions are formed in part by the marketing campaigns we are bombarded with. 

I'm probably personalising the issue too much. In my defence, all I can say is that sometimes I just get fed-up with the assumptions of my likes and dislikes that are based purely on the fact that I happened to be born female.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 8, 2010)

But think how nice it is to be able to rise _above_ their assumptions.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 8, 2010)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> But think how nice it is to be able to rise _above_ their assumptions.


 
It is nice but it's also isolating. I rarely encounter people IRL who don't at some point expect me to explain (or even defend) my interests, opinions and tastes because (in their words), "women don't usually think like that / like those things".

I'm an introvert by nature so I'm happy being on my own but in recent years I've basically given up on making new friends, dating or maintaining a social life. At some point it all became too much hassle.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 8, 2010)

Do not explain or defend; you don't owe that to anybody.

And go where you can find like-minded people. There are places.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 8, 2010)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> Do not explain or defend; you don't owe that to anybody.
> 
> And go where you can find like-minded people. There are places.


 
Maybe I'll do that in a few years time. For the foreseeable future I'm content being on my own.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Apr 8, 2010)

Dear gods, Daisy, you're the female version of me. 


Maybe not. Believe me, DB, I know what true, total isolation can do to a person. I was living alone out in the woods, without any computer access at all much less internet access, and with nobody around I felt really comfortable with, I began to go stir-crazy. Cabin fever.


I wound up talking like a cat. Not just TO the cat, but LIKE him. *sigh* Gods rest his soul, that poor, sweet cat.....


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 8, 2010)

Manarion, I don't want to thread-jack so I'll PM you later if that's ok with you.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Apr 8, 2010)

Hehe. It's all good, DB.


But as TE said, you should never explain or defend your actions or preferences. And, even though I am not a woman, I can understand how you feel when you do feel that way, stereotyping is such an ugly trait, one I stay away from as much as possible.


And that swings both ways. There's been a couple romance novels that I was really able to get into myself, even though they do usually tend to be geared towards the opposite gender.


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## bobbo19 (Apr 14, 2010)

seems to me that the majority of chicks on this forum prefer horror. did not expect to see that!


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 14, 2010)

bobbo19 said:


> seems to me that the majority of chicks on this forum prefer horror. did not expect to see that!



Chicks are baby birds. Women and girls, on the other hand, are human beings. Now that you know the difference, I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again of referring to the female members of this forum as chicks.


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## j d worthington (Apr 14, 2010)

Daisy-Boo said:


> Chicks are baby birds. Women and girls, on the other hand, are human beings. Now that you know the difference, I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again of referring to the female members of this forum as chicks.


 
_*Sooooooo*_ glad to see someone say that. I can't tell you how much it irks me to hear "chick" coming back into such prevalence these days. Gak....

As for the point about _women_ liking horror... both when I worked in a bookstore and at a video store, a large percentage of those who rented or bought horror were women... a larger percentage, in fact, than men. When I was married, my wife had a rather strong taste for that field, too (often quite graphic stuff, not generally my cup of tea). And I've had quite a few female friends who were heavily into horror as well... not a few of whom were quite fond of the works of H. P. Lovecraft, supposedly a writer who appeals "only" to men -- an odd assumption, considering the number of women who were fans/friends during his lifetime....

For anyone harboring such ideas about women and literature, I strongly recommend reading Joanna Russ's *How to Suppress Women's Writing*... not to mention her wonderful (and scathing) novel, *The Female Man*....


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks JD.


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## j d worthington (Apr 15, 2010)

Daisy-Boo said:


> Thanks JD.


 
De nada. (Hey, if even Harlan Ellison began to realize how sexist use of the term was almost 40 years ago.....)


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## Lioness (Apr 15, 2010)

I like horror more than my boyfriend. I love psychological thrillers, and he doesn't like them, mostly because they're just a bit scary.


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 15, 2010)

I really enjoy John Connolly's books, for their mix of horror, suspense, detective/murder mystery and the supernatural. Which reminds me, I need to check when his next Charlie Parker book is due.


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## The Procrastinator (Apr 16, 2010)

I don't care for horror, but I do like thrillers. Not so keen on the supernatural, either, though I love fantasy. Who can say why, but that's how it is...


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## Daisy-Boo (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm very selective when reading (or watching) anything horror/supernatural. My imagination works overtime and I end up scaring myself witless. 

For example, it took me a year to finish reading Stephen King's The Regulators. I kept breaking off every time I got too scared and I never read when it was dark.

Yeah, I'm a scaredy-cat.


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## jennyjj (Jul 3, 2010)

thats a good one! my dad got me into fiction v early, david eddings n all that and i was hooked. Personally i do like chicklit sometimes, especially if its not pretentious ie doesnt try to save the world or impart moralistic messages. I see the purpose of good clean mindless escapism but i wouldnt read a book like bridget jones, i'd watch the film but reading takes attention and time and although its my fav hobby i dont want to waste my time watching colin farrell


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## jennyjj (Jul 3, 2010)

i meant firth! lol guess that says it all


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## jennyjj (Jul 3, 2010)

Daisy B im the same, stephen kings insomnia is the scariest i've read..give it a go if you dont need sleep x


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## Anne Lyle (Jul 23, 2010)

Looks like I'm one of those rare female SF&F fans who _doesn't_ like horror 

I don't think of myself as the least bit girlie - I'm an IT geek who vastly prefers computers to babies! - but OTOH I don't mind the odd rom-com on film, though I don't read them (apart from Jane Austen). OK, OK, so I did read "Bridget Jones' Diary" (my mum's copy) ages ago after a breakup, but I was in a very emotional female place at the time *lol* The only other romance I read is the very occasional gay historical by a member of my writing group 

Outside SF&F I mostly read non-fiction and historical fiction (Sarah Dunant is especially good), and when it comes to films I like comedies or anything with a good balance of action and drama: Master and Commander, Zatoichi, etc. Non-stop Michael-Bay-style action movies bore me!


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't read modern horror novels, but I do enjoy some Victorian horror (at the risk of starting JD off on the differences between Gothic, horror, ghost stories, etc.).  I think I read a pretty wide range of fantasy -- I don't care for excessive violence, which makes it particularly odd that I have been reading Carol Berg lately -- but not nearly so much science fiction as I used to.  I read books written for adults, for teenagers, for children.

If I look at my bookshelf of favorite books, I find that I lean very heavily toward women SFF writers.  As a gross generalization, they tend to focus more on the mental and emotional lives of the characters than the men do, which is what I like, and in the way that I like.  With the YA and children's books, it's probably a 50/50 split between male and female writers.


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## Anne Lyle (Jul 23, 2010)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> If I look at my bookshelf of favorite books, I find that I lean very heavily toward women SFF writers.  As a gross generalization, they tend to focus more on the mental and emotional lives of the characters than the men do, which is what I like, and in the way that I like.  With the YA and children's books, it's probably a 50/50 split between male and female writers.



Same here. I have a few favourite male authors, like Terry Pratchett and Tim Powers, but I like strong, complex characters combined with a good plot, and as you say, women tend to do more of that kind of thing. 

As for gender of the protagonist, I tend to prefer male (in both reading and writing), but maybe that's because it's harder to write a strong but realistic female within a pre-modern culture whilst avoiding the "amazon" stereotype. And let's face it, cute guys are fun to read about


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## FaerieMajikk (Sep 9, 2010)

this is interesting to read... me personally i like thrillers and supernatural style books other than fantasy, i am not big on SF though, I don't like chik lit, this includes romance unless...its tragic. Not necessarily romeo and juliet style but even something where- the guy does NOT get the girl, much the same as movies too, i hate romantic movies unless it's tragic or similar for example - Love Story and I love Chasing Amy!

But i prefer Fantasy novels although sometimes i feel like a fraud as I can not get into any Tolkien books, i have tried but I find the writing very 'flowering' almost to the rambling stage.
(will now sit back and wait for the hate mail)


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## Lacivetta (Sep 17, 2010)

I actually find the question kind of meaningless.  It implies that women are a homogenous (?sp.) mass, which seems a bit odd.  Yes, sure there are female and male cultures (or maybe natures, who knows) but as individuals, we're more different than the same.  

To put it one way, do you think you are more similar to most people of the same sex, or most people with similar tastes to you?  Or do you think that these two groups of people would be the same?


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