# Angry Robot Open Month



## goldenapples

For aspiring writers, there's an interesting post about Angry Robot's open month  for unrepresented authors over March 2011. It's in Books and Writing. I'm not allowed to link to it here because I'm newly registered (at least that's what the message says when I tried a link), however, I thought it might be of interest. 

I'm an unrepresented author. Angry Robot is an imprint of Harper Collins who also run Authonomy, the online jamboree for aspiring writers. I've not visited Authonomy for some time after my novel sank without trace after many great reviews, but I am going back to look at how Angry Robot ties in. I don't remember much enthusiasm for the genre when I was last there, but bandwagons do get jumped on once they're rolling.


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## Pyan

Moved to Press Releases...


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## Ian Whates

goldenapples said:


> Angry Robot is an imprint of Harper Collins who also run Authonomy, the online jamboree for aspiring writers.


 

Just to clarify, no, Angry Robot is not an imprint of Harper Collins.  It was when first established, but moved to Osprey Books last year.


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## anthorn

Thumbs up mate.

Oh and to the Op isn't authonomity a scam site?


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## Mouse

Authonomy isn't a scam site and is actually to do with Harper Collins. It's rubbish though. A 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' sort of thing.


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## Anne Lyle

I got some useful feedback from authonomy, but it's a terrible time-sink - as far as I can see, the only way to get to the Editor's Desk is to practically live on the site 24/7 and back every single other book you can find. HC have also started advertising Amazon CreateSpace, etc, to members since I left - I don't think they know what else to do with the monster they've created.

Angry Robot Books are a well-regarded smallish publisher of adult SF&F - worth submitting to if your writing a) is good enough and b) fits their house style. HC dropped the imprint after management cutbacks, but AR relaunched under Osprey's wing (sorry, bad pun!) and seem to be thriving.


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## Ursa major

I expect Osprey thought that having authors such as Ian writing for it would be a feather in its cap.


A pun, but sincerely meant. I've only read one Angry Robot book, Ian's, and didn't find it edgy (whatever that means**). The writing was more than good enough, though, and I really enjoyed the story. (I'm hoping that the sequel will soon be in the shops.)





** - I suspect _edgy_ has as many meanings as _progressive_.


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## Anne Lyle

What I meant was their books tend to be a bit less "bog-standard epic fantasy" than the big houses. No rehashing of tired tropes, and they like a bit of grit and grime in with their wide-eyed wonder.

ETA - I've edited my previous post to say "adult" - they like to stress that they're not a YA publisher (perhaps to avoid being inundated with Twilight clones!)


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## Ursa major

Then by that definition, Ian's book _is_ edgy.


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## Ian Whates

Ursa major said:


> I've only read one Angry Robot book, Ian's, and didn't find it edgy (whatever that means**). The writing was more than good enough, though, and I really enjoyed the story. (I'm hoping that the sequel will soon be in the shops.)


 
Thanks for the kind words, Ursa!   Glad you enjoyed _City of Dreams and Nightmare.  _The sequel, _City of Hope and Despair_, will indeed be in the shops soon -- released early next month -- and I'm hard at work on the final volume of the trilogy.


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## HareBrain

Is there any way to stop me reading this thread title every time I see it as *Angry Robot Opens Mouth*?


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## Anne Lyle

No - but thanks for the great image!


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## anthorn

Lol. Would just like to say Angry Robot are fast repliers.

I sent an email last night about if they accepted Open Office. Got a reply this morning


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## Anne Lyle

Yeah, they're pretty fast by publishing standards. It still feels agonisingly slow, though, when you're waiting for a response to work submitted


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## goldenapples

Thanks for the corrections. Prepare your manuscripts please. From personal experience Amazon Createspace, formerly Booksurge, where I SPd my first novel in 05, is little more than an e-hole that sucks money. And Authonomy is, as Mouse says, a reciprocating network. A hopeless waste of time. I just work on my story and watch the initiatives come and go. I wish I'd spent many more years and less money on my first novel and hope not to repeat the errors on my second.


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## TheEndIsNigh

Anne Lyle said:


> I got some useful feedback from authonomy, *but it's a terrible time-sink* - as far as I can see, the only way to get to the Editor's Desk is to practically live on the site 24/7 and back every single other book you can find. HC have also started advertising Amazon CreateSpace, etc, to members since I left - I don't think they know what else to do with the monster they've created.
> 
> Angry Robot Books are a well-regarded smallish publisher of adult SF&F - worth submitting to if your writing a) is good enough and b) fits their house style. HC dropped the imprint after management cutbacks, but AR relaunched under Osprey's wing (sorry, bad pun!) and seem to be thriving.


 
 Definately not for the likes of us Chronites then eh?

Out of interest, does anybody know what percentage of uptake these events get.

Does submitting to them (and then having to confess to other publishers) mark you down as a pathetic desperate last hope type?


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## Ian Whates

TheEndIsNigh said:


> Does submitting to them (and then having to confess to other publishers) mark you down as a pathetic desperate last hope type?


 
If you're referring to Angry Robot, definitely not. Although Anne refers to them as 'smallish', their titles are released in the UK, USA and Australia, stocked by all major bookshops (such as Waterstones in the UK), sell in the thousands, and are beginning to appear on awards shortlists. 

They pay reasonable advances and their current list of authors includes (in addition to myself) the likes of Dan Abnett (the best selling SF author in the UK for the past couple of years), Aliette de Bodard, Lauren Beukes, John Meaney, Andy Remic, Chris Roberson, and Lavie Tidhar.

Why would being published by them mark you down as a 'pathetic, desperate last hope type'?


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## TheEndIsNigh

Ian Whates said:


> If you're referring to Angry Robot, definitely not. Although Anne refers to them as 'smallish', their titles are released in the UK, USA and Australia, stocked by all major bookshops (such as Waterstones in the UK), sell in the thousands, and are beginning to appear on awards shortlists.
> 
> They pay reasonable advances and their current list of authors includes (in addition to myself) the likes of Dan Abnett (the best selling SF author in the UK for the past couple of years), Aliette de Bodard, Lauren Beukes, John Meaney, Andy Remic, Chris Roberson, and Lavie Tidhar.
> 
> Why would being published by them mark you down as a 'pathetic, desperate last hope type'?


 
No offense intended Ian.

I was refering to open submission events in general, rather than this specific publisher (although I can see where you're coming from re-reading my post - sorry again)


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## Ian Whates

TheEndIsNigh said:


> No offense intended Ian.
> 
> I was refering to open submission events in general, rather than this specific publisher (although I can see where you're coming from re-reading my post - sorry again)


 
No offence taken, TEIN, honestly. 

I just wanted to clarify.

As for submitting to 'open' invites like this, again, I don't see there's an issue. For one thing they're far from common. For another, there are only two possible outcomes: 1) Your submission is accepted, giving you publishing credit for a novel. 2) it isn't. 

If the latter, why would you ever mention the fact to another publisher?


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## Ursa major

I assume you'd have to mention it to an agent, should you happen to snag one**.

Your agent might not feel too happy trying to sell your novel to a publisher only to find that they have already turned your book (or an earlier version) down.






** - Telling them _after_ you've snagged them, I mean.


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## Ian Whates

Ursa major said:


> I assume you'd have to mention it to an agent, should you happen to snag one**.
> 
> ** - Telling them _after_ you've snagged them, I mean.


 
Of course, Ursa. You don't hide stuff from your agent... once he/she _is _your agent.  

I'm not suggesting you should be dishonest with any potential publisher, either, merely that you don't advertise previous lack of success.

Opening the submission process with, "Here's the MS for my new novel; I hope you'll consider it for publication, though it's already been turned down by everybody else," probably isn't a good Plan A.


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## goldenapples

TheEndIsNigh said:


> a pathetic desperate last hope type?



 You know me too well.


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## Anne Lyle

Ursa major said:


> Your agent might not feel too happy trying to sell your novel to a publisher only to find that they have already turned your book (or an earlier version) down.



I think if it's only the one publisher, the agent would be OK with that. It's when you get rejected by a whole bunch of publishers that he's going to be ticked off - because you've just shot him in the foot!

As Ian points, when I said AR are small-ish, I didn't mean they are a "small press" in the usual sense of the word (tiny outfit with limited distribution). They're just small compared to the multi-national behemoths who dominate the modern publishing industry - and all the better for it!


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## Stephen Palmer

They've got the excellent Mike Shevdon too.


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## Anne Lyle

He is very excellent - and a lovely guy to boot!


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## anthorn

_We require a brief (two pages max) summary of characters, plot and your  intentions/inspiration, in that order — plus the opening five chapters.  No more, no less. *DO NOT* send us the opening chapters of your unfinished manuscript – we’re only interested in novels that have been completed._

So they don't need to know anything personally about us at first when we send our stuff. Apart from why we wrote the novel obviously 

So when they want the quick synopsis of work and characters, do they want them seperately or can you work them in to the synopsis the way R scott Bakker did with his work?
Also do they want it as part of the file, or the email.


I am about to begin  my proposal thing and I want to get it perfect.


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## HareBrain

anthorn said:


> do they want them seperately


 
Ah, you suspect the words "in that order" of being a deliberate red herring? You do right to be suspicious -- publishers are well-known for such deviousness. Why, I heard that back in the 'thirties George Allen & Unwin would only accept submissions typed on a particular brand of typewriter -- but the brand was changed every morning, to one chosen at random from an office supplies catalogue! Muahahahaha!


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## Anne Lyle

anthorn said:


> So when they want the quick synopsis of work and characters, do they want them seperately or can you work them in to the synopsis the way R scott Bakker did with his work?
> Also do they want it as part of the file, or the email.



For the submission I sent back in September I just wrote a normal synopsis, which of course includes introductions to the main characters near the beginning. Then at the end of the synopsis I wrote a short bio about me and my writing.

I did this as a separate file, attached to the email (plus the sample chapters as a second attachment). Being a synopsis I formatted it single-spaced Times New Roman, not double-spaced Courier as I would a manuscript.

As long as the writing is to a professional standard and it covers all the areas requested, I don't think it matters that much how you organise it.


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## Teresa Edgerton

HareBrain said:


> Is there any way to stop me reading this thread title every time I see it as *Angry Robot Opens Mouth*?



Probably not.  If there is a cure, I need it too.

I've read a couple of their books, including Ian's _City of Dreams and Nightmare_*.  Good books with original ideas.  I am a little puzzled by the fact that they say they don't publish YA, because Ian's book did strike me as rather sophisticated YA.  I do read a lot of books published for that age group, and I know it would strongly appeal to young readers.  Adults, too, of course, but then the best YA books do.  

The last time I was at Barnes and Noble I saw Angry Robot's latest releases on a display all of their own.  Though they are small, they are definitely a major player.



*I've got the sequel pre-ordered from Amazon, so that it can arrive in the mail as a pleasant surprise sometime around the end of March.


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## Ian Whates

Teresa Edgerton said:


> Probably not. If there is a cure, I need it too.
> 
> I've read a couple of their books, including Ian's _City of Dreams and Nightmare_*. Good books with original ideas. I am a little puzzled by the fact that they say they don't publish YA, because Ian's book did strike me as rather sophisticated YA. I do read a lot of books published for that age group, and I know it would strongly appeal to young readers. Adults, too, of course, but then the best YA books do.


 
Interesting, Teresa (and thanks for enjoying the book enough to order the sequel! ) When I wrote _City of Dreams_ my intention was very much to write a book for adults but, at the same time, I'm conscious of how big the YA readership is, so I deliberately cast one of the central characters (arguably _the_ central character) as a teenager in the hope this would enable younger readers to connect with the book as well. 

AR are very clear that they don't want to publish YA, but they do want to be a little more contemporary than the established publishing houses and so tap into the younger audience which enjoys so much media related genre stuff. The _City_ books therefore fit their intentions very neatly.

Oddly enough, this very element probably cost me a deal with a larger publisher prior to AR accepting the books. The English arm were very keen to take the series but the American parent company vetoed the acquisition, on the basis that they weren't sure whether _City of Dreams and Nightmare_ qualified as adult or YA.


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## Anne Lyle

That's very interesting, Ian. My book includes a teenager as one of the central characters (well, she's 17, which was practically adult in that period), though not through any deliberate aim at the YA market. When I had a partial critiqued back in 2007 at the Winchester Writer's Conference, one of the agents assumed it was YA from the synopsis *sigh*

I think a lot of SF&F that in the past was published as adult fiction is now marketed as YA because the likes of Harry Potter have made that a lucrative market. However with a few honourable exceptions, SF&F used to be a lot tamer on the sex'n'violence front, so there was no problem with kids reading it. YA isn't aimed at 15-16 year olds, it's aimed at 12-14 year olds, and marketing to this age group means you're more constrained by content (particularly in the US).

There's no doubt that many teenagers will enjoy Angry Robot's books - their original marketing strategy was "fiction for the X-Box generation" - but I think AR are trying to stay out of the YA market in order to maintain their "street cred" with older teens. Plus, the minute they announce they want YA, they'll be flooded with clones of Harry Potter and Twilight!


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## J Riff

March 2011 – Open Door Month :: Angry Robot Books

 Wonder how many novels they will be swamped with on Mar. 1st?


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## Stephen Palmer

March 1 would not be the best day to submit. Think about what's going to happen...


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## Susan Boulton

Having been a slush reader for a small mag I know there will be a lot of dross that will be bounced right away, stuff on the line that will be will pondered about and some work that will have them asking for more. Then along with a load of other things it will be a matter of what fits the imprint, what looks like it has commerical prospects and also the professional attitute of the writer. (don't discount the latter)

There also, sadly, will be some fine work that will be rejected because it does not fit the imprint brief.


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## HareBrain

J Riff said:


> Wonder how many novels they will be swamped with on Mar. 1st?


 


Stephen Palmer said:


> March 1 would not be the best day to submit.


 
Submit before March 10th, it'll look like you've had it kicking around for ages because no one will touch it. Submit after March 20th, it'll look like you've just finished it in a rush (if at all) to get it ready.

An algorithm I wrote tells me the best time to submit would be 12th March at 2:45 pm GMT.


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## Ian Whates

HareBrain said:


> An algorithm I wrote tells me the best time to submit would be 12th March at 2:45 pm GMT.


 
Odd, my own calculations made it 2.47... I'll have to rework them.


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## HareBrain

Ian Whates said:


> Odd, my own calculations made it 2.47... I'll have to rework them.


 
OK, I confess, mine said 2:47 too, but I want everyone else to submit at 2:45 so mine will come in just after and then be at the top of the pile. (Assuming computer files work like paper files, and I can't see any reason why not.)


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## Susan Boulton

HareBrain said:


> OK, I confess, mine said 2:47 too, but I want everyone else to submit at 2:45 so mine will come in just after and then be at the top of the pile. (Assuming computer files work like paper files, and I can't see any reason why not.)


 
But that means you will be under the submission sent in at 2:48


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## anthorn

???? What would be wrong turning it in at the 1st second of the first minute of March 1?
What's all this talk about waiting?


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## goldenapples

HareBrain said:


> An algorithm I wrote tells me the best time to submit would be 12th March at 2:45 pm GMT.



That's a Saturday. My algorithm says Wednesday 16th March at exactly 11:25am GMT avoiding lunch and elevenses, and it's the middle of the month. Monday and Tuesday would be days for dealing with the weekend backlog. Thursday would be wind-down day, and Friday, well need I say?


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## HareBrain

SJAB said:


> But that means you will be under the submission sent in at 2:48


 
Not when you can disable all internet traffic at 2:47:30 



goldenapples said:


> My algorithm says Wednesday 16th March at exactly 11:25am GMT avoiding lunch and elevenses, and it's the middle of the month.


 
It's too near the middle of the month, you fool! It makes it too obvious that you're avoiding both extremes. They'll wonder what you have to hide.


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## Anne Lyle

SJAB said:


> and also the professional attitude of the writer. (don't discount the latter)



I never do. Although how I managed to get through an entire evening at NewCon5 with you and Ian and Marc without bursting out "Have you read my ****ing manuscript yet?", I don't know *lol*

I guess all that roleplaying in my misspent youth came in handy after all...


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## goldenapples

HareBrain said:


> They'll wonder what you have to hide.



They won't have to wonder too long, sadly.


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## Ursa major

It's still February, but the things have moved on:


The page at Angry Robot has changed. In fact there are now two, one of which gives a link to the other:

First link: Open Door Month – Guidelines :: Angry Robot Books

They give plenty of guidelines, including how they want to see the summary. Note that their guidelines aren't quite the same as they mentioned earlier. (I was going to list some of their requirements, but as they're only a click away and I don't want to mislead anyone, you're better off using the links.) Note especially rules about the subject line of the email.

The second link looks to be what we've seen before: March 2011 – Open Door Month :: Angry Robot Books.


Good luck, goldenapples and others.


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## Anne Lyle

I see they've fixed the typo - it originally said 13,000 words instead of 130,000. I didn't want to anger the robot by being the first person to point this out...


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## J Riff

Oh well, nothing 'wacky' or zany'... lets me out. Wunner what they think 'funny' means... ?


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## Stephen Palmer

Happy Angry Robot/Wales The Great day everyone...


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## goldenapples

I wonder what the significance of March 1st, St David's Day, is for an Angry Robot.


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## Ursa major

None, unless it has a leek....


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## goldenapples

Here's an ambiguity in tone I just love. The AR guidelines say they'll be reading submissions in "order of receipt". Well of course. It's only fair. First come first served. I understand that principle. The early bird and the worm comes to mind. 

But the AR blog reckons that the author who submitted first at, I quote, "precisely midnight, suggesting the author set an auto-send in their email client, or was waiting for the clock to chime."

You know, guys at AR, I can't imagine, given the first clear instruction on the "order of receipt", why any author would set an auto-send to be read first in a long, long submission queue. Some people, huh!


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## Susan Boulton

I find it had to believe that 15% have not followed the submission guidelines.  Why? You had the chance to submit your work and you fall at the first hurdle. Just amazes me.


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## goldenapples

It was predictable. Their guidelines started with what they're NOT looking for which is always a mistake: "Anything shorter than novel length (approx 70,000 to 130,000 words)", They should have said we don't want your full length manuscripts at this stage right up front. That instruction comes later in a split DON'Ts. Doh indeed!


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## Ursa major

SJAB said:


> I find it had to believe that 15% have not followed the submission guidelines.  Why? You had the chance to submit your work and you fall at the first hurdle. Just amazes me.


I'm not going to be doling out any sympathy, but you shouldn't be amazed. Even where a publisher or agency sticks to the time-honoured "rules", many break them.

And Angry Robot can't avoid responsibility for some of the confusion. For example:

They changed the guidelines late in the day (okay, in the last day or so), which may have caught out those folk using a scheduler to send their entries. (Not a big issue, to be fair.)
They say they want specific email titles, "SF", "Fantasy" and "Horror", which they explain makes their mail distribution easier. It doesn't, though, fit in with what one is usually told (i.e. get the name of the book and the author in the email title so it can be easily found in a (very long) list of emails**. (I'm taking the text, "If your subject header is anything other than SF, Fantasy or Horror, it _will_ be seen, but it will be seen after the SF, Fantasy and Horror folders have been emptied" as saying that no word other than "SF", "Fantasy" and "Horror" should appear in the title. I may be wrong, but I have no way of knowing.
They mention page numbers. Are these merely there to indicate what should be on which page or are they an indication of how they want the submission numbered? This isn't clear, though if I were submitting, I'd number the" title page" (with or without biography) as Page 1.
(By the way, I think they're being too kind by saying they'll forgive occasional typos up front. I would hope they would, in private, but I can see some folk in a hurry seeing this as a green light to not edit their text as rigorously as they might, particularly in their later chapters.)


* Goes away to work out whether 20,000+ words really can be lost from his manuscript. *




** - Okay, I'll admit that this is business-mail thinking, something that authors are often told ignore when formatting query letters, synopses, etc.


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## Anne Lyle

It'll be interesting to see what the main rejection problems really are - whether they are folks caught out by the last-minute refinement of the guidelines, or just idiots sending them YA when Angry Robot have said from day one (and in their general submissions guidelines even before this was announced) that they're not a YA publisher.


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## Stephen Palmer

Well, that's mine sent off...


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## Ian Whates

Stephen Palmer said:


> Well, that's mine sent off...


 
Good luck, Stephen!


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## Anne Lyle

Lee has just blogged on SFX with initial feedback on numbers, and it makes for sobering reading:

BLOG What Are The Chances For An Unsolicited Manuscript?


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## chopper

sobering, but not unexpected, i'd say. lee makes the very good point that all writers need to know their target market, as much as their target publisher, which is clearly something that an agent would be able to do far better than (for example) me. part of me knows that i probably don't write angry robot's style of fantasy, but another part of me would sling the mss to them regardless, just in vague hope. i guess that's what a lot of people have done.

personally, i would have thought 700 was on the low side of expectations - it actually makes me perk up a bit more!


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## anthorn

I got rejected at 12 today


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## Ursa major

This has been on their website for a few days, suggesting a last-minute rush of submissions:


> *If you are thinking of contacting us because you just missed our Open Door Month and you want to submit your manuscript**, please don’t.* We had around 1,000 submissions during that 31 day period, and we are not accepting any more, for any reason. We might run another Open Door Month in the future, so keep an eye on our website.


From: Contact :: Angry Robot Books.​ 
(And better luck with your other submissions, Anthorn.)


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## anthorn

Thank you. According to the book Getting Published by Harry Bingham. My rejections are good ones cause they're personal.


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## Anne Lyle

Personal rejections are definitely a good sign - it means your submission was worth a little of the editor's (or agent's) precious time.


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## Anne Lyle

Ursa major said:


> This has been on their website for a few days, suggesting a last-minute rush of submissions...



Lee commented on Twitter on Sunday that he'd had to deal with at least three people emailing to say "I know I missed your deadline but...". No. A deadline is a deadline. If you can't act like a pro and hit it, no publisher is going to be impressed.


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## Ursa major

Which while true, Anne, is not really relevant to what I posted.

As I thought was clear, I was comparing the 700 submissions stated to have been received at the time of the blog post (made a short time before the deadline) with the 1000 said to have been received by the time the deadline had passed. Either these figures are inaccurate (something I was discounting: why would they be wrong?), or there were a lot of last-minute submissions (which I would tend to believe). Hence my comment.


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## Anne Lyle

Sorry - posted in haste before rushing out to the pub 

Yes, there was no doubt a last-minute rush after the early March deluge. Pretty much what one would expect...


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## Boneman

Anne Lyle said:


> Sorry - posted in haste before rushing out to the pub
> 
> Yes, there was no doubt a last-minute rush after the early March deluge. Pretty much what one would expect...


 
Next time, post it at your leisure, and walk to the pub - not good for your stress levels to rush like that.

I decided to miss the early rush, give it all a chance to settle down, so I posted mine at 15.39 hours on the 31st... I figure it was like boarding an Easyjet flight - let all those who want to, rush out and board, and then come along later and find a seat. We were all going on the same journey, after all...


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## Anne Lyle

Well, you did a lot better than the person who contacted them at 19 mins to midnight, asking for the submissions email address. Oops...


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## Stephen Palmer

Nothing in the last minute rush is likely to be a good enough submission. It just smacks of writers rushing.

I think 700 in the main period of the month is pretty low, frankly, and 2 out of 700 is about what I expected. Orbit went through 10,000 submissions over five years to find me in 1995.

Makes you think.


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## Anne Lyle

2 out of 350, but yes. That's ~0.6% - and there's still no guarantee that any of those will be picked up. I would hope that at least 1 of them does (out of a likely 5 or 6 out of the thousand), but who knows?

I'm trying to express this without talking about odds. The fact is, if you have written a great book of the sort AR likes, your chances of getting picked up are maybe 90% (not 100%, because you have to allow for random bad luck, e.g. they might just have bought something very very similar). Whereas if your book is not up to scratch or the wrong genre, your chance is zero. Zilch. Nada.


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## Boneman

Stephen Palmer said:


> Nothing in the last minute rush is likely to be a good enough submission. It just smacks of writers rushing.


 

Surely if a writer rushes, they got it in a 0001 hours on 1st March? I was just too darn busy to submit early and the month trickled away from me. Then I made a positive decision to do it on the last day - figured after a lot of other stuff, a good one would stand out.


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## Ursa major

Anne Lyle said:


> Sorry - posted in haste before rushing out to the pub
> 
> Yes, there was no doubt a last-minute rush after the early March deluge. Pretty much what one would expect...


 
No worries. 



Boneman said:


> I decided to miss the early rush, give it all a chance to settle down, so I posted mine at 15.39 hours on the 31st... I figure it was like boarding an Easyjet flight - let all those who want to, rush out and board, and then come along later and find a seat. We were all going on the same journey, after all...


Best of luck with your submission, Boneman.


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## Teresa Edgerton

Stephen Palmer said:


> Orbit went through 10,000 submissions over five years to find me in 1995.



On the other hand, in the US, quite a few new writers came out of the slush pile in the late 80's and early 90's.  We did have several SFF imprints that were turning out, if I remember correctly, six or seven paperback originals a month, and some of them had lines that were set up so that one of those six or seven books was by a writer they "discovered" themselves.  Eventually, they found that this was not profitable and stopped doing it, but while it lasted those houses were publishing 12 new writers a year. And though some of those writers had agents, a fair number of those manuscripts came out of slush.  

Which was fortunate for me.


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