# The 'Baddest' Baddies



## Essie (Feb 4, 2008)

Who do reckon are the baddest baddies? I'm talking TV sci-fi here. 

I can't make my mind up - I think there are a few up for the award - possibly the most obvious being the Daleks - pure evil and nothing redeeming. What do you all reckon?


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## Montero (Feb 4, 2008)

The Shadows from B5 - because they thought they were doing it for our own good.  Said natural selection would then tend to breed the meanest, nastiest races so we could keep on doing it to each other.

The Daleks "only" kill. 

There was one fairly good Dalek - Zek (is that the spelling?) - the human hybrid in 1930s New York - not that he lasted long


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## HoopyFrood (Feb 4, 2008)

Black Dalek Sec, his name was.

Hem.

Love that Dalek


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## Overread (Feb 4, 2008)

"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and prepare to surrender. We will add your biological and technological distinctivness to our own."

nasty creatures - created by the whim of a madman seeking perfection in machinery. Like a hive of ants they consumed all in thier path in thier quest for perfection


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## Urien (Feb 4, 2008)

Tinky winky, dipsy, laa-laa and po.

You never see any humans, except on tape... where are they? EATEN eh-oh.

And their nice den or should I say lair? A Slaughter class battle cruiser, half buried for disguise.

My god what is wrong with you people? It's all there to see, THEY'VE IMPRISONED A BABY IN THE SUN, IN THE SUN FOR GOD SAKE... BURNING FOREVER.


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## Essie (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh yes I hadn't thought of the Shadows - good choice.

I'm sure no-one round here will disagree with the Teletubbies!!!


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## nj1 (Feb 4, 2008)

andrew.v.spencer said:


> Tinky winky, dipsy, laa-laa and po.
> 
> You never see any humans, except on tape... where are they? EATEN eh-oh.
> 
> ...


 
Excellant. Can't stop laughing


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## Ursa major (Feb 4, 2008)

Never mind _one_ baby trapped in the sun, what about all those toddlers trapped in the Teletubbies' stomachs.


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## Urien (Feb 4, 2008)

Yes slow digestion.


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## Talysia (Feb 5, 2008)

I can't make up my mind between the Daleks and the Borg at the moment.  I'll have to think about this one.


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## Quokka (Feb 5, 2008)

Are the Borg really 'bad', from their point of view they are seeking perfection and helping everyone else by including them, I always thought the early Borg were great characters before they started to get watered down and certainly some of the scariest baddies, exactly because it wasn't emotion driving them but logic, all be it flawed logic from our point of view 

As far as TV sci-fi goes aren't the baddest baddies usually 'The Government'? 

I don't really know Dr Who or B5 but what about Stargate's Goa'uld? In some ways they seem badder then most who tend to have some justification, to themselves at least, for why their actions are either right or needed but the Goa'uld enslave and deceive billions simply so they can play god, knowing full well they aren't. That's just mean.

But then again i suppose what would you rather be a Goa'uld slave or a Borg drone


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## Connavar (Feb 5, 2008)

Stargate's Goa'uld and The Wraith are really bad baddies.   The Wraith give me the creeps with the hole lets eat humans thing. 

The Cylon clones in new BSG is well done villains too.  Their ruthlesness and religion craze is what makes them one of the baddest villains.


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## Talysia (Feb 5, 2008)

Quokka said:


> Are the Borg really 'bad', from their point of view they are seeking perfection and helping everyone else by including them, I always thought the early Borg were great characters before they started to get watered down and certainly some of the scariest baddies, exactly because it wasn't emotion driving them but logic, all be it flawed logic from our point of view
> 
> As far as TV sci-fi goes aren't the baddest baddies usually 'The Government'?
> 
> I don't really know Dr Who or B5 but what about Stargate's Goa'uld? In some ways they seem badder then most who tend to have some justification, to themselves at least, for why their actions are either right or needed but the Goa'uld enslave and deceive billions simply so they can play god, knowing full well they aren't. That's just mean.


 
Actually, that's a good point about the Borg.  I'd forgotten about the Goa'uld, too - thinking about it, seeing the way they enslave races and such, they are pretty evil.


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## UltraCulture (Feb 5, 2008)

My worst nightmare would be to bump into a Vidiian(ST-VOY) down a dark alley and having a few organs removed.

Give me assimilation anyday.


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## Pyan (Feb 5, 2008)

Or, while we're with _Voyager_, how about [SIZE=-1]*Species 8472?*[/SIZE]


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## Serin (Feb 5, 2008)

Have to go with the wraith (Stargate Atlantis).  The Goa'uld are evil but to me the Wraith have the edge.


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## Ursa major (Feb 5, 2008)

pyan said:


> Or, while we're with _Voyager_, how about [SIZE=-1]*Species 8472?*[/SIZE]


 

A species that recreated Boothby are baddies?


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## nixie (Feb 5, 2008)

The daleks, exterminate exterminate


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## Essie (Feb 5, 2008)

pyan said:


> Or, while we're with _Voyager_, how about [SIZE=-1]*Species 8472?*[/SIZE]


 
 I did think about Species 8472 but then I thought were they really bad? Maybe they were just defending themselves. Not sure.

I thought people might mention the Wraith but somehow they just don't creep me out - part of their 'badness' to me comes out of their will to survive - which is why they feed off humans. Now the Goa'uld and the Repicators - both give me the creeps - particularly before the replicators became 'humanoid'. The noise of them scampering around - yuck!


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## nj1 (Feb 5, 2008)

can i have MR BURNS from the simpsons, in one episode he not only blocked out the sun, but he also tried to STEAL candy from a baby!! EVIL, PURE EVIL


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## Essie (Feb 5, 2008)

Too true! Nice one.


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## Ursa major (Feb 5, 2008)

The Replicators became less scary when they started to take on human-like forms. Before that, they were more like a force of (artificial) nature.


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## Pyan (Feb 5, 2008)

nj1 said:


> can i have MR BURNS from the simpsons, in one episode he not only blocked out the sun, but he also tried to STEAL candy from a baby!! EVIL, PURE EVIL


Oh yes...how about his "See My Vest" song.....

_Some men hunt for sport,
Others hunt for food,
The only thing I'm hunting for,
Is an outfit that looks good...

See my vest, see my vest,
Made from real gorilla chest,
Feel this sweater, there's no better,
Than authentic Irish setter.

See this hat, 'twas my cat,
My evening wear - vampire bat,
These white slippers are albino
African endangered rhino.

Grizzly bear underwear,
Turtles' necks, I've got my share,
Beret of poodle, on my noodle
It shall rest,

Try my red robin suit,
It comes one breast or two,
See my vest, see my vest,
See my vest.

Like my loafers? Former gophers -
It was that or skin my chauffeurs,
But a greyhound fur tuxedo
Would be best._

Sheer evil class.


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## Urien (Feb 5, 2008)

I've always had a morbid fear of lego. They can become so many things. Too many things, things with teeth and too many arms.


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## Ursa major (Feb 5, 2008)

Yes, I can imagine:
"Lego of me! Lego of me!"​


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## Urien (Feb 5, 2008)

That's puntastic.


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## Talysia (Feb 6, 2008)

The Replicators - I found them to be a bit like the Borg, but on a very basic scale:  good as an enemy, and certainly frightening in concept, but I'm not sure how much was driven by necessity for them.  And with the Wraith it was the whole feeding off humans thing that put me off them.

I remember Species 8472, but I was thinking about another Voyager race in terms of evil:  the Hirogen (or was it?  Can't remember the name).  Weren't they famous for their cruel hunts and suchlike?  

And nj1 - Brilliant!  I'd forgotten about that song, Py!


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## JadeTrickster (Feb 6, 2008)

Are you talking about the ones that voyager gave holodeck technology to? The ones who turned off the safety protocols and killed the holos over and over in pain? Your're right, they are worse than the borg....


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## Talysia (Feb 6, 2008)

Yep, they were the ones I was thinking of.


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## Essie (Feb 6, 2008)

Although I think the Hirogen should have been scary - the idea certainly was quite good - they somehow just didn't appear scary enough. Don't know why that was though. Even though you know (mostly) that the main characters will win the day, somehow in Voyager you knew the crew would always win - they never seemed really in danger. Possibly because they 'came back from the dead' so many times through altered time-lines etc. I never felt that anyone of them was at risk of dying so the baddies never seemed that evil to me. This really isn't to say that I didn't like Voyager because I don't mind it at all - it's just the way the series felt to me.


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## Xwing Mom (Feb 6, 2008)

Hmmm...I think the really "bad" villains are folks like Senator Kinsey from Stargate....his type of evil is really hard to fight.  The heroes can usually find a way to defeat, overcome, take out, decimate, overthrow (you get the picture) the obvious baddies that have been mentioned here.  Maybe what makes Kinsey's type so threatening is there are actually folks like him at work in the world today.


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## Connavar (Feb 7, 2008)

Ursa major said:


> The Replicators became less scary when they started to take on human-like forms. Before that, they were more like a force of (artificial) nature.


 

Yeah the ones in SG1 was more powerful than the ones created by ancients in SGA.


The ones in SG1 was almost unstoppable plus they had the bug look that is easy to give you the creeps.  There is nothing nice by ever multiplying bugs that cant be stopped.


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## steve bolger (Feb 10, 2008)

i was trying to think of the name of the baddies, after the goauld, in sg1.the ones within the arthur, merlin context


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## Talysia (Feb 10, 2008)

Do you mean the Ori (I think that's how it was spelt)? Or am I thinking of something else?


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## Essie (Feb 11, 2008)

steve bolger said:


> i was trying to think of the name of the baddies, after the goauld, in sg1.the ones within the arthur, merlin context


 
I'm really surprised that anyone mentioned the Ori. To me, although virtually omnipotent they seem completely lacking any real fear factor. Not really sure why that is.


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## Talysia (Feb 11, 2008)

I must admit, when the Ori were introduced, I was a bit underwhelmed too.  The potential for title of baddest baddie was there (wiping out races/planets at a time, just because they didn't believe in them) but I agree with Essie - I didn't think there was any real fear factor for me as a viewer.  Mind you, at that point I was getting a little fatigued with the series, so that might explain it.


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## Steve Jordan (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm thinking of one guy: _NuBSG_'s Gaius Balthar.  

Gave away security secrets for the sake of tail.  Cowered behind his girlfriend's skirts as humanity was nuked.  Pretends to be working for the sake of humanity's preservation, and for the Cylons' mission of genocide in secret, when really all he's doing is working for his selfish self.  And finally, he knows all this, and he truly loathes himself for it, but he's too chickens**t to just shoot himself.

Now, _that's_ evil.


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## steve bolger (Feb 16, 2008)

What about the baddies in Andromeda?I can't remember their name... I think they laid eggs inside their victims that hatched and ate their way out! or maybe it was just a bad dream of mine.Does anybody remember their name?


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## Steve Jordan (Feb 16, 2008)

steve bolger said:


> What about the baddies in Andromeda?I can't remember their name... I think they laid eggs inside their victims that hatched and ate their way out! or maybe it was just a bad dream of mine.Does anybody remember their name?



No, you didn't dream it... that was the _Magog_.  One of their number was aboard their ship, Rev Bem (bat ears, bad skin).  That was bad, but it was more of a survival instinct... not intentionally bad.


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## K. Riehl (Feb 16, 2008)

I would vote for Ming the Merciless.


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## steve bolger (Feb 16, 2008)

I think your just being flash!................... I'm sorry


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## RodneyMcKay (Feb 16, 2008)

The Wraith are definetly evil... but In one episode - of which the name escapes me - you do see they arn't entirely evil. John and a Wraith are imprisoned together and they help each other to escape. At one point the Wraith says he is just happy to be able to see the stars again for heaven sake, what type of evil villian is that?


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## Sire Of Dragons (Feb 17, 2008)

My take on the Wraith or any other species we might consider as evil is that they are simply the way they are with no moral concept as we would think of it.

The BORG or even the clones in Star Wars, were simply born or created or programmed a certain way and know no different. The Terminator is a good example.

Who knows, some things are just spawned from evil.

The show the Shield...can you be a good cop and corrupt as well?

Sometimes, its a lot easier to justify a bad guys reasoning in the movies, and other times you're ecstatic to see them destroyed or made to suffer.

One of my favorite's is the statement by Agent Smith in The Matrix
"Humans Are A Disease"

There is a fine line between good and evil on Hollywood sets.


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## RodneyMcKay (Feb 18, 2008)

Maybe you're right... or they only do it to live (I'm refrencing the wraith again). 
I mean, for example, if you are on a planet with the only edible food source being talking deer (with feelings and emotions) and you were dying, would you rather:
a) not eat to save the deer or
b) eat the deer and live

I feel like my Religion teacher right now

McKay


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## Sire Of Dragons (Feb 18, 2008)

Thats a whole different concept now. You're talking eating a more intelligent species now.

I feed the deer who come thru my yard. If I were to hunt one I'd have to go some place else.

I think if any of our animals could actually speak and have intellectual conversations, I'm sure they wouldn't have a lot of good to say about the lot of us. 

I think we would have a lot more vegetarians if we were not the only "alleged" intelligent species. Yes I said it "alleged". 

Sometimes too much knowledge or intellect is the evil in itself.

Stop eating the damn apples!!!


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## Connavar (Feb 18, 2008)

Sire Of Dragons said:


> My take on the Wraith or any other species we might consider as evil is that they are simply the way they are with no moral concept as we would think of it.
> 
> The BORG or even the clones in Star Wars, were simply born or created or programmed a certain way and know no different. The Terminator is a good example.
> 
> ...




Which is why The Shield is one of my alltime favorit tv shows.

Vic isnt a good cop really since he breaks so many rules,laws but he has done alot of good deeds. When he isnt robbing armenian maffia he is a very good cop.  He solves alot cases,keeps the gangs on their toes. Making them fear him and his team.

Yeah he deserve to go down for his crimes in the end but he did alot of good too.

You see the last season?  The new guy who lead the strike team, who were so naive that he couldnt to the tough job in dealing with gangs. I thought that was great showing, not everyone can do his job.


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## Sire Of Dragons (Feb 18, 2008)

Unfortunately I never get to watch it but Ive seen a couple episodes and know what its about.

I actually thought that Kate Mulgrew (Star Trek Voyager's Captain Janeway) was in that show After Voyager. At least the first season. I swore I saw the information on it.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 31, 2021)

The aliens in the Babylon 5 telefilm  *Thirdspace* .   Older and more powerful then even the Vorlons, these  malevolent beings believed  themselves to be the only ones worthy of existence and waited out every pother race they came into contact with . This film had a very lovcratain look and feel .


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## Rodders (May 5, 2021)

I liked the Borg initially and I found their relentless pursuit to be quite terrifying. They got overused though and a good baddie loses a lot when they keep on getting defeated by the good guys. The Daleks (another great baddie, initially) suffered with the same problem.

I thought the Peacekeepers from Farscape were pretty decent. All too human. Not evil, but an ideal perverted into something powerful. 

My favourites of all are the Shadows from Babylon 5. They looked great and sounded even better (well, their ships did). Not bad, just ideologically different. There is no right or wrong, only perception.


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## reiver33 (May 5, 2021)

If you discount ideology then I would say ‘evil’ - from everyone else’s perspective - would be genocidal xenophobia; a race that can’t tolerate the mere existence of any other species. Maybe the hardcore ‘purist’ Dalek falls into that category, but most other ‘big bad’ protagonists have an enslavement/improvement ethos.


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## Guttersnipe (Jun 6, 2021)

The Kromaggs from Sliders


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## paranoid marvin (Jun 6, 2021)

One of the scariest villains was time itself  in the tv series Sapphire & Steel. Some very scary moments in that programme and some very evil entities created by time itself.


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