# Is Science Fiction a form of 'Geekery.'



## bobbo19 (Nov 11, 2009)

In accordance to popular belief i believe reading sci-fi to be somewhat 'geeky.' Yet my dad does not think so. So i thought it would open a highly rancourous debate(as it did in my household) in that: 
*Do you beleive Science Fiction to be 'Geeky'?* 
Submit your thoguht folks!


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, my thoughts on the subject can be summed up in two sentences:

Yes it is. And there's nothing wrong with that.


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## j d worthington (Nov 11, 2009)

Teresa pretty much nailed it.

Of course, the same can be said (in most people's view, at any rate) of reading fantasy; or horror; or classic literature; or pretty much anything that isn't a mainstream best-seller....

As the lady says, nothing at all wrong with that.

... at least, as long as you don't go biting the heads off chickens....


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## Omphalos (Nov 11, 2009)

...or twisting them off.

I think that most people who are passionate about something tend to show the same signs of obsession and devotion, mainstream lit included, and are often called "geeks" by outsiders who dont share their passions. SF has always drawn an inordinate number of fans who for some reason go head-over-heels and stay that way for a long time. SF also has the added bonus of including science, which in the day conjured up images of skinny, greasy sophomores with pocket protectors and protracters who dwelled in the basement of the science building (imagine that being lisped, like Cheech and Chong used to say it). 

I agree with the above too. Someone calls me a geek, which, for example, people at my office do _frequently_ and whenever the topic comes up, and I say "yep. I wish I could show you what you are missing."


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## Dave (Nov 11, 2009)

No nothing at all wrong with 'geekery'. However, I would stay well clear of the types who use sci-fi books as a guide to living, their sexual behaviour, or to start a new religion.


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## thepaladin (Nov 11, 2009)

I was never sure if I was a geek or a nerd, but having researched it a bit I believe that geek is the proper word...not that it matters. The people here do not fit in a single mold. Our one apparent area of agreement is science fiction/fantasy. And as everyone has said...geek fine. The idea of using "geek" or "nerd" or any other like appellation as a negative or pejorative always brings to my mind a group of "jocks" making fun of the local D&D crowd as they play "fantasy football".


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 11, 2009)

Dave said:


> However, I would stay well clear of the types who use sci-fi books as a guide to living, their sexual behaviour, or to start a new religion.



Klingon Wicca.  

Although I read about that in a work of fiction and it might not be based on fact.  Then again ...

My father, in his carnival days, knew a geek in the original sense of the word.  (Which is why the newer usage has always amused me.)  When she left her cage and wasn't biting the heads off of fowl, he said she cleaned up very nicely.  

SF geeks, when they emerge from their dens of books and stop chewing over the obscure details of their current reading matter, sometimes clean up very nicely, too.


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## Connavar (Nov 11, 2009)

Geekery or not isnt an issue over here so many people around you teens,kids,adults read fantasy,SF or whatever that isn't mainstream best-seller.

You dont see obsessed fans unless its the role-playing crowd that play D&D of today like my brother who use to  paint his figures before he started reading fantasy.   No he re-reads HP or Lord of The Rings heh.

I have never thought about it or no do I care.  Only time someone think you are weird is when i choose to read in the living room while family member is watching a film they found on the cable because they were bored.


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## Sparrow (Nov 11, 2009)

Whatever science fiction was or has become, as literature, it is dwindling in popularity and has been for two decades now.  I think back when I was a kid and we all went through a geeky stage but as time went by we emerged into adulthood... sort of like a butterfly.  Nowadays it seems Geekdom, _not the cool kind of geekdom, but the unattractive (can't deal with the real world) kind_, is less transitory in nature. 

A Geek should be something more than a bookworm.


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## jojajihisc (Nov 11, 2009)

No, it's not geeky because I am a fan and geeks are always those other guys.


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## bobbo19 (Nov 11, 2009)

Dave said:


> No nothing at all wrong with 'geekery'. However, I would stay well clear of the types who use sci-fi books as a guide to living, their sexual behaviour, or to start a new religion.


 

Jheeez Dave, that cracked me up dude


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## j d worthington (Nov 12, 2009)

I've never personally known a carnival geek (though I had a friend who had known a few) though I have met one or two when I was rather young. Your father must have some wonderful stories about his life, Teresa. I envy you.

When I think about the various people, either past or present, that I know about who probably had an equivalent term used for them... I'd a darned sight rather be in their company than with the bulk of the human race. They would be much better, more interesting, and more intelligent, company....


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Nov 12, 2009)

Yes. Next question?


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## Rob Hasson (Nov 12, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> Whatever science fiction was or has become, as literature, it is dwindling in popularity and has been for two decades now.
> 
> Interesting point. Two things occur to me about that.
> 
> ...


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## J-WO (Nov 12, 2009)

Going near a computer was automatic geekhood but now everyone's on Facebook and have lots of friends. I'll never work people out.

regards,

J-Wo, Romulan Druid


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## Vladd67 (Nov 12, 2009)

What annoys me is how people regard you as being a geek or weird for having an interest in science fiction, yet think nothing odd in an interest bordering on the obsessive in the lives of fictitious people in soap operas, or the goings on of a group of social misfits locked in a house together, not to mention the trials and tribbleations of wannabe singers. Now none of this interests me  I LOVE SCI FI AND FANTASY AND AM PROUD OF IT!!!
_feels better now_


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## Ursa major (Nov 12, 2009)

The explanantion of their behaviour is already in your post, Vlad (as your subconscious obviously knew):





Vladd67 said:


> ...yet think nothing...


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## Sparrow (Nov 12, 2009)

> Rob Hasson ~Is the decline at least partly a function of the increasing corporatisation of the publishing industry?
> 
> SF still tends to attract more active, involved adherents than many other genres (as exemplified by present company), so could the ability of the like minded to communicate more easily through media such as this lead to some form of revival (even if an underground one?)




I think it has more to do with the tremendous scientific, technological, and visionary shortfalls of NASA.  On July 20, 1969 it seemed everything was possible.  Nearly four decades later it still takes weeks and months of planning just to get humans into low earth orbit.  The magic is gone.  Science Fiction is just that, fiction.
When we relate to science fiction nostalgia should be at least a little unbecoming. Yet here we are in 2009 still watching StarTrek and StarWars spin-offs, hoping the SyFy execs don't kill Stargate Atlantis.

The line between Geek and Loser is often a fine one.


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## Ursa major (Nov 12, 2009)

Any topic or behaviour can be the subject of an obsession or, on a much lesser scale, geekdomness. It is just that some geeks are more obvious than others.

Someone dressed as a Klingon is going to stand out far more than someone dressed like their favourite character in, say, Eastenders or The Wire (except in certain circumstances, e.g. they are of a different gender). It doesn't help that TV news - I'm thinking of local news - will, if it covers an SFF event at all, show pictures of people dressed in costumes, the more outlandish the better.

If I were to dislike the term geek** at all, it would be simply because it's a stereotype and so likely to be inaccurate and, possibly, a term of abuse***.



** - Actually, I don't dislike it; but then I have never been called a geek; not to my face or to my knowledge.

*** - And it would be the use of the word, not the word itself, to which I'd object.


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## bobbo19 (Nov 12, 2009)

Vladd67 said:


> What annoys me is how people regard you as being a geek or weird for having an interest in science fiction, yet think nothing odd in an interest bordering on the obsessive in the lives of fictitious people in soap operas, or the goings on of a group of social misfits locked in a house together, not to mention the trials and tribbleations of wannabe singers. Now none of this interests me I LOVE SCI FI AND FANTASY AND AM PROUD OF IT!!!
> _feels better now_


 
Exactly. People who hold X factor dear to thier hearts(sorry to those of you who like the show, yet i doubt any of you present will like it), in my mind's eye are losers. Therfore when people round on a person for reading sci-fi its annoying to say the least(not that its happened to me)

'Geeks' are not the losers depicted a decade ago. Geeks are rising up in the world and are at the fore-front for advancement(in some aspects) in the Global Community!


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## Moonbat (Nov 12, 2009)

> Of course, the same can be said (in most people's view, at any rate) of reading fantasy; or horror; or classic literature; or pretty much anything that isn't a mainstream best-seller....


 
I have several friends that think I'm a geek just for reading, regardless of the genre. I would happily say I'm a geek, or a nerd and even a loser. Its all part of finding your niche in the fractal system that is society.
I don't think its the reading of sci fi that makes me a geek, but my love of science and scientific discoveries/ideas. Maybe my obsession with language adds to my geekiness.


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## BookStop (Nov 12, 2009)

Geekery? Yes.

Although, I would like to add that geek is chic. I know some incredibly awesome people that love sff, of course they do, because sff is awesome too.


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## mosaix (Nov 12, 2009)

It remains to be seen.

I met the chap from the County Library Service who selects the books for the Shropshire libraries reading groups, at an author event about two months ago. I challenged him about the lack of science fiction on the reading lists.

Him: "Well if there were any good science fiction books, I'd include them."

Me (spluttering): "Well lets start with Flowers For Algernon  and see where we go from there."

Him: "Never heard of it."

Me (more spluttering): "How about reading it and seeing if it's suitable?"

Him (doubtful): "Well, I suppose so."

Well, the list for the first six months of 2010 is out and it's included!

But, to get back on topic, the group has about 20 members, age range 30ish to 70ish, 4 males 16 females. About half a dozen profess to liking science fiction, the rest frown when it is mentioned.

After we've read the book, I'll report back on whether they've all become geeks.

BTW my answer to the question *Do you believe Science Fiction to be 'Geeky'?*  is 'no'.


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## Parson (Nov 12, 2009)

No debate needed here. Yes reading SF is geeky, but without "geeks" not the carnival kind, we'd still be subsistence farming.

Which would be better for the environment, but that's another topic all together.


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## reiver33 (Nov 13, 2009)

I think SF has attained the aura of geekery due to some of those who are attracted to it as an 'acceptable' form of escapism - as opposed to Fantasy. Given its grounding in science it’s considered more _realistic_ to have a working knowledge of, say, the air-conditioning system aboard the Deathstar, than to be able to sing in Elvish (ignoring busking opportunities).

It’s the fringe obsessive fans who cast the longest shadow though, and I have to say that SF’s ‘radical vanguard’ tend to be much more obvious.


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## J-WO (Nov 13, 2009)

My 'faedar' tells me President Obama must have read SF and fantasy at some point. Just an instinct I've got but I'm sure some investigative journalism would bare me out. Now compare him to Bush, who probably can't get enough of X Factor now he's kicking back.


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## thepaladin (Nov 13, 2009)

Ok, I'm going to ask one of two things here. While I'm not really a fan of president Bush I am a conservastive. i have stopped commenting in the World Affairs thread as it seems impossible for some of us to disagree without moving to name callin etc. iI simply stopped and let the left wing politicos here to carry on. All of us here I assume are united by our love of Science Fiction and Fantasy. May I respectfully suggest that e not drag politics into other threads here unless open discussion can be had without taking offense.

As a matter of information I graduated college with honors, I can read and everything and I believe that President Obama's policies are bringing the US to bankruptcy and ruin. If you don't agree that's fine, but may I ask that it not be assumed that all here are of the same political stance?

Thsnk you for listening. I won't go on about it again.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 13, 2009)

While I agree, paladin, that it would have been better not to mention either Bush or Obama in this thread because we have quite enough political discussion elsewhere and I am sure that conservatives like yourself must grow weary of these constant digs tossed in carelessly wherever you go ... you've just thrown down a major political gauntlet in this thread, which could cause it to veer far off topic.

I would hope that all discussion of politics in this thread stops right now, before things take an unpleasant turn.


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## j d worthington (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm afraid I'm in a less tolerant (or forgiving) mood. While I don't mean to bash the paladin, I intend to make it quite clear that it will stop at this point, or I'll close the thread. We can veer off-topic in a friendly fashion, but any of that nonsense spreading here will meet with a severe reaction on my part.

'Nuff said.


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## thepaladin (Nov 13, 2009)

I apologize if you took it as a gauntlet, that was not my intent at all. This is a light hearted thread and I agree it needs tot stay that way.

After all I also agree that "geek" has become an accepted appellation for we who love science fiction and fantasy.... after all, I was a DM back in 1978. I could barely feed my family but still managed to find a way to come up with a Player's Handbook, a Monster Manual, and a DM Guide. Not to mention I also tracked down every "used" book store in the area.


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 14, 2009)

Sooooooooooooo anyways--

My hubby is a HUGE geek. He builds and rebuilds and repairs just about any computer and console you can think of, as well as built many modifications for technology and programmed this and that and did this application and script and blah blah blah and so forth and so on.....

And you know what?

He HATES science fiction movies and television shows, as well as fantasy. He also doesn't like to read. 

He only likes action-adventure and comedy and NASCAR. 

Me, I love science fiction movies and television shows and fantasy. I hate all that geekey crap, no offense, guys, but I do.


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## Parson (Nov 14, 2009)

Okay, I'll admit ignorance. What is a DM? My first bet would be a "Doom" player but this does not seem to fit the rest of the post.


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 14, 2009)

Parson said:


> Okay, I'll admit ignorance. What is a DM? My first bet would be a "Doom" player but this does not seem to fit the rest of the post.



Dungeon master as far as I know.

Like this little guy:








PS: Technically D&D is not geeky---its nerdy.


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## thepaladin (Nov 14, 2009)

Yes, Dungeon Master. I was the one who had heard of D&D and got everything and everyone together. Since then I've DMed and been a player in several different groups.

Not sure I looked up Geek vs. Nerd and apparently you need to be in some form of tech. endever to be a nerd....but I can't say I'm actually any kind of authority on the difference. So if I read science fiction and fantasy, play electronic RPGs and also traditional D&D am I a geek and a nerd? Both? Or possibly a gerd or a neek? Oh well, so much for labels.


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## J-WO (Nov 14, 2009)

Sorry everyone, especially Paladin. I didn't mean to cause a fuss. Just offering up well known figures as examples and, in retrospect, I could have chosen better. Bit stupid of me.


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## j d worthington (Nov 14, 2009)

To both J-WO and thepaladin: My remarks above were not directed at you specifically, as I realize neither of you intended to start a fight -- J-WO was simply making a somewhat tongue-in-cheek remark, and thepaladin was airing a legitimate grievance -- but rather to head off any possibility of what has been happening so often of late in the World Affairs forum. That sort of behavior has seen a considerable upsurge in recent months, and it has had as long as run as it is going to.

I may have been overly strong in my wording, but my point is to get a message across loud and clear: There will be no more tolerance of personal attacks, insults, personalities, or ad hominem nonsense. Debate a point as much as you will, as passionately as you will -- but step over that line, and the hammer comes down.

None of the mods (including myself) is happy about that, but I have taken the step to go beyond the norm of _reacting_ and chosen to be _proactive_ and lay down the ground rules firmly for those who chose to ignore the "Terms of Use" when signing on where such things are concerned.

If I offended either of the two parties above, my apologies. But my stance remains the same. We need to remain civil to each other here, no matter how much we may disagree.

Sorry to introduce such a somber note in an otherwise chatty, friendly thread; and I hope this closes the matter, and allows the thread to get back on track.


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 14, 2009)

thepaladin said:


> Yes, Dungeon Master. I was the one who had heard of D&D and got everything and everyone together. Since then I've DMed and been a player in several different groups.
> 
> Not sure I looked up Geek vs. Nerd and apparently you need to be in some form of tech. endever to be a nerd....but I can't say I'm actually any kind of authority on the difference. So if I read science fiction and fantasy, play electronic RPGs and also traditional D&D am I a geek and a nerd? Both? Or possibly a gerd or a neek? Oh well, so much for labels.



Someone once told me that nerds like the theory of things; and geeks like the actions of things. 

So you are still a nerd. Unless you are building your own robot armies to run your D&D games ....


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## Pyan (Nov 14, 2009)

Google Fight : geek VS nerd


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## Dave (Nov 14, 2009)

Is that where Harry Hill got the idea from?

I also had not investigated the differences in etymology before, but it looks like the Geeks are the easy winners.


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## thepaladin (Nov 14, 2009)

Yesssss......but if science fiction readers are geeks and Dungeon Masters are nerds, we never settled if I'm one, both, or a combination. I'm having an idenity crisis I wasn't even aware I was in danger of!

"help he muttered into his beard as he swooned and fell off his desk chair....what ever shall i do????"


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## Urien (Nov 14, 2009)

Today in the UK hundreds of thousands of geeks will gather to celebrate their obsession. Many will wear the uniforms of their favourite characters. They'll cheer their heroes and boo the enemy. After the event they'll tirelessly discuss the best positions for their heroes and formations. 

Yep it is the acceptable face of geekery, football and team sport more generally.


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## Rodders (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't care. I suppose that any level of obsession can be considered geeky or nerdy. I've been into SF for as long as i can remember and i've never considered myself to be a geek or a nerd, but i've been called it many, many times. It doesn't bother me, i am what i am and i'm not going to apologies for it. 

After a while, people alway come round in the end when you stick to your guns. (Whenever something SF is on the TV, people always think of me.)


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## Sparrow (Nov 14, 2009)

I think we're hitting on what is now becoming exceptable has geeky behavior, but that is hardly my definition of it.  As Dustinzgirl remarked,"... and geeks like the actions of things", and I'll add, we also like the creating and building, and tweaking of things.

The last time I was called a 'geek' was after a good friend asked me to make a "sort of medieval entrance" for his big Halloween bash. He presumed I would use plywood and paint and that would be that.  What he got was a thirteen foot high ten foot wide four foot deep honest-ta-goodness gothic arch and pillars... no flat facade plywood painted to look three-dimensional.  I built the framework out of wood and hot glued 4in. thick styrofoam to it.  Then carved the styrofoam to look like stone mortared together, buttered it with joint compound, and then painted it a dark slate color.  I hand rubbed it with color tinted acrylic and oil washes to weather it and gave it a coat of satin finished lacquer to make it appear wet.

Not to mention I rigged it with a fog machine, it's own sound system, a lantern hanging from a dragon's mouth would flicker and fade due to it being plugged into a cool gizmo cabled to the cd player.  If you heard a crack of lightning the light would flicker off and on, if it was a harsh wind the glow would gently fade in and out, a wolf howling in the distance and the light would grow more intense.  And the entire thing was modular and could easily be taken apart for transport.

I had never told him that when I was young I had a job designing and building props for local playhouses.  Perhaps working on my days off for three weeks straight in the garage, sometimes through the night until the sun was up, all for something that would only be used for a couple of nights, could be considered insane... but that's the price you pay for ADHD.


That is what it means to be a geek.


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## Dave (Nov 14, 2009)

While we are on the subject of obsession, it is my belief that everyone is obsessive about something, and what is more, I think it is a perfectly healthy thing. Any one who does not have any interests is a corpse. Even the most quiet, introverted person can become quite animated when you ask them about their particular hobby.

So, for some of us it is SFF, for others it is Football or other some sports, or body building, or jogging, or playing music, or wine making, or family and local history, or cooking, or stamp collecting, or building models, or bird watching, or amateur dramatics, or morris dancing... 

For others, it is raising money for charities, or voluntary work, or some youth club. 

For very many, it is their paid work, or their career.

In my view, it is all the same thing.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 14, 2009)

Years ago I was at an SF/Fantasy convention, and observed a group of people in Star Trek uniforms who were playing their roles a little too seriously so that it was overlapping with their actual relationships with each other.  I thought, "This _cannot_ be healthy!"  (As if I had room to talk, considering my involvement in the SCA.)  But then I envisioned these same people enacting these same kinds of dramas with their spouses and neighbors and coworkers -- as people do -- and I realized how much better it was to do it all on an imaginary starship and get it out of their systems, then to do it in real life.


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## The Ace (Nov 14, 2009)

Errrrrrrr..... yes.


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## J-WO (Nov 14, 2009)

I've just pitched Shakespere against j k Rowling on Pyan's Googlefight link. The Bard of Stratford gets his *rse handed to him.


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## thepaladin (Nov 15, 2009)

My daughter (grown but if I reveled her age I'd not live to post again) insisted I watch a TV program called The Big bang Theory (I'm sure some if not most of you are familiar with it). I'm not a big TV fan, right now I'm watching the 1967-68 series The Prisoner. I only make it a point to watch a few current programs, lostly I watch the news or a few dramas. Anyway, there is an episode of the BBT where Sheldon can't enjoy a renaissance fair because of the anachronisms (TE might appricate that as she mentioned being a member of SCA). In the end the only way he could enjoy it was to dress as Mr. Spock observing an earthlike civilization..... so far I like the program...and their obsession.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 15, 2009)

thepaladin said:


> Anyway, there is an episode of the BBT where Sheldon can't enjoy a renaissance fair because of the anachronisms (TE might appricate that as she mentioned being a member of SCA).



Doubly so, because I was also involved in our local Renaissance Faire, on and off, for about twenty years.  

I've never seen any Vulcans observing the festivities, but I have seen the customers put together some very strange costumes.  Always amusing to watch someone who looks better suited to a Las Vegas burlesque show, staring at all of us in our staid Elizabethan peasant garb.


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## thepaladin (Nov 15, 2009)

I always enjoyed the movie 13th Warrior and it always gave me a laugh to hear the purests who got angry about the mixture of armor styles.


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## Parson (Nov 15, 2009)

> "Years ago I was at an SF/Fantasy convention, and observed a group of people in Star Trek uniforms who were playing their roles a little too seriously so that it was overlapping with their actual relationships with each other. I thought, "This _cannot_ be healthy!" (As if I had room to talk, considering my involvement in the SCA.) But then I envisioned these same people enacting these same kinds of dramas with their spouses and neighbors and coworkers -- as people do -- and I realized how much better it was to do it all on an imaginary starship and get it out of their systems, then to do it in real life."



TE> Goblin Sociologist. 

good insight.


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## bobbo19 (Nov 15, 2009)

hey j.d worthngton, you cant close my thread without permission!

haha, lol. Thanks for all the interest guys amd lets keep it on topic(for your sake thepaladin)


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## j d worthington (Nov 15, 2009)

Well, actually, we (or, in this case, I) can, though we try to avoid such things normally. And, in fact, the reason I put such a harsh warning in was to _prevent_ having to close the thread by it being used as an arena for flaming. That is something we have seen an increase in of late, and it simply isn't acceptable. But, as noted, if such does happen, then yes, we do have the option of locking down a thread. I'd suggest people check out the Terms of Use here to refresh their memories on what few rules there are. Toleration of abuse of those rules (especially those concerning attacks on fellow members) is at an end.

As for this thread in particular -- I'm sorry it has been taken off-topic in this way, but given the trend noted, it seemed best to make a swift and hardline response before things reached that point.

And now, let us please drop the matter, and return to the intended focus of the thread....


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## Rodders (Nov 15, 2009)

Ahh, but do you consider yourselves Geeks?


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## thepaladin (Nov 15, 2009)

Actually, I don't think about it...


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## AE35Unit (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm a geek and proud of it!


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## AE35Unit (Nov 15, 2009)

bobbo19 said:


> Exactly. People who hold X factor dear to thier hearts(sorry to those of you who like the show, yet i doubt any of you present will like it), in my mind's eye are losers. Therfore when people round on a person for reading sci-fi its annoying to say the least(not that its happened to me)
> 
> 'Geeks' are not the losers depicted a decade ago. Geeks are rising up in the world and are at the fore-front for advancement(in some aspects) in the Global Community!


Well I could certainly live without x factor but my other half loves it. I would never call her a loser tho!
And I don't think geeks were ever losers! Too harsh!


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## nixie (Nov 15, 2009)

Well I admit to watching x factor, don't think it makes me a loser


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## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

Rodders said:


> Ahh, but do you consider yourselves Geeks?


 
Now, that's more like it!

Actually, no... I'm afraid I left Geekdom behind a long time ago. I even left Nerddom behind. What I am now, I fear, hasn't even received a label, it's so far beyond the pale....


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 16, 2009)

Rodders said:


> Ahh, but do you consider yourselves Geeks?



I am most certainly NOT a geek. I hate tinkering with technology that I don't know, don't want to learn, can't figure out, and don't care to fix.

I'm much more of a nerdy girl, my nose stuck in a book.


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## J-WO (Nov 16, 2009)

Is it possible to be a 'Gerd' or, indeed, a 'Neek'?


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## Culhwch (Nov 16, 2009)

What about a sfeek? Make it a little more sfpecific.


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## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

Culhwch said:


> What about a sfeek? Make it a little more sfpecific.


 
I'd really get a new dental plate if I were you....


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 16, 2009)

What about a scineek?  (Pronounced sneak)


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## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> What about a scineek? (Pronounced sneak)


 
Not too sure how GOLLUM would feel about that....


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 16, 2009)

Sssssssss.  Sméagol's a scineek.


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## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

teresa edgerton said:


> sssssssss. Sméagol's a scineek.


 
:d :d :d...


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 16, 2009)

Would that make Chronos his pressssssssssssssssssssssssious?


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## Teresa Edgerton (Nov 16, 2009)

Before I am attacked by the Tolkien geeks (Hi, py!), I should perhaps amend what I said to bring it into conformity with the original.

_"No food for Sméagol.  He's a scineek."_


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## dustinzgirl (Nov 16, 2009)

Ha ha! LOL.


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## Parson (Nov 16, 2009)

I believe that these last posts have just proved that the people on this thread are at least nerdy to the extreme!


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## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> Before I am attacked by the Tolkien geeks (Hi, py!), I should perhaps amend what I said to bring it into conformity with the original.
> 
> _"No food for Sméagol. He's a scineek."_


 
Bravo! Exactly! 



Parson said:


> I believe that these last posts have just proved that the people on this thread are at least nerdy to the extreme!


 
Are you addressing me, sirrah? I refer you to my earlier post. *muttering*Geek, indeed! Hmmph! The nerve!....


----------



## Culhwch (Nov 16, 2009)

That's right, JD's gone beyond your petty labels. Now he's a supergeek, supergeek! He's supergeeky, yow....


----------



## dustinzgirl (Nov 16, 2009)

I prefer rollin' on my segway through my 'hood 

(From wierd al's white & nerdy)

The line in there 'keep your 40 I'll just have my earl grey'--is SO me. Everyone but me and my dad drinks beer, we prefer tea and occasional wine.


----------



## J-WO (Nov 16, 2009)

Scineeky certainly ages well, as far as television goes. Most people (and I'm not just talking about Fandom) remember or know about _The Twilight Zone, Quatermass, Avengers, The Prisoner _etc, while most other 50's and 60's TV has disappeared down the memory hole*.
I'd say this was mainly because genre programing asks a lot of the viewer and consequently remains fresh and challenging as the decades pass.
We freaks shouldn't be so embarrassed with ourselves.



*Hancock's Half Hour excepted, of course.


----------



## j d worthington (Nov 16, 2009)

J-WO said:


> We freaks shouldn't be so embarrassed with ourselves.


 
Good point. I got over such embarrassment some time ago, though I couldn't tell you exactly when or how. I just realized one day that I no longer felt either embarrassed or defensive on the subject, nor had for some time.... And, along the way, I became aware that my interests in literature in the larger sense was a part of the same process as well, and the need for strictly maintaining any sort of genre boundaries was simply not holding up against what I was experiencing in my reading, either....


----------



## thepaladin (Nov 16, 2009)

Like I said I don't think about it much. I like what I like and am who I am. I accept you on those terms also. For example...I have very little use for spectator sports. I don't hang on who is going to win the Super Bowl. My wife however was a football fan. Many of my friends are.  A few seem to be "secret" science fiction fans to, but they haven't matured to the point where they can admit it.


----------



## J-WO (Nov 18, 2009)

I actually get a perverse kick out of my work colleagues having no clue I read and/ or write SFF. Its the closest I get to being Clarke Kent or Bruce Wayne- an ordinary Joe shmoe with this bizarre and secret other life.


----------



## Xelebes (Nov 18, 2009)

Reading books is kinda geeky, to be honest.  Writing books is geekier than that.  But it's all fun so we're having fun geeking it out.  *shrug*

ETA: Forgot to note, since it seems to be less geeky with women, that this is coming from a man's perspective.  Time spent alone not doing something productive is considered geeky in some sense or another.


----------



## thepaladin (Nov 19, 2009)

By what measure is reading or writing a book "not doing something productive"? Just wondering?


----------



## Xelebes (Nov 19, 2009)

I meant reading, not so much writing.  Heh.


----------



## j d worthington (Nov 19, 2009)

Xelebes said:


> I meant reading, not so much writing. Heh.


 
Can't say that I agree with that one, either. It may not be adding to the GNP, but (depending on what sort of reader you are) reading can and often is very productive. Even if you are a casual reader, you are stimulating the mind into channels it might well not otherwise explore; that's productive. If you are a more intense reader, you are exercising your faculties in a number of ways critically; it also taps into the "channels" mentioned above, but in a multitude of ways. And, of course, if you are a writer yourself, then reading _anything_ is a way to learn more about your craft -- how to tell a tale; how to express oneself better; how to structure an essay, story, novel, prose-poem; it helps to recharge the creative batteries with most writers, as well; and, in fact, has that effect on creative people of all types -- many a composer has been inspired to create great works of music by a book or poem or tale they've read; ditto with painters, sculptors... even mathematicians and architects have been so inspired. And then, of course, there's also the level of being improved as a human being by what one learns from the differing perspectives and levels of empathy and insight encountered in reading, whether it be fiction or no.

So I can hardly call such an activity "unproductive", by any means....


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Nov 19, 2009)

>>  Time spent alone not doing something productive is considered geeky in some sense or another.

I somehow suspect that this is a sentiment thought up by factory foremen and corporate managers, to say nothing of marketing executives, who don't mind you being unproductive as long as it is done in public with the aid of their product.


----------



## Ursa major (Nov 19, 2009)

Xelebes said:


> I meant reading, not so much writing. Heh.


Sad to say, I find that there are many times when reading a book is far more productive than writing one.


----------



## Connavar (Nov 19, 2009)

Reading is much more productive than writing to me.   Everyone with money can self publish crap books, people can live on hack writing or for markets like celebrity genre where you dont need much of writing ability,storytelling to sell.

You cant be a hack reader, you read because you like it.


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Nov 20, 2009)

As someone who hacks out ad copy, corporate website content and other verbal atrocities for a living, all I can say to Connavar's post is: 'Too true!'


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## j d worthington (Nov 20, 2009)

knivesout said:


> As someone who hacks out ad copy, corporate website content and other verbal atrocities for a living, all I can say to Connavar's post is: 'Too true!'


 
I wouldn't feel too badly about that. Even HPL, at one point, wrote ad copy (see "Commercial Blurbs" in *Miscellaneous Writings*....).


----------



## Culhwch (Nov 20, 2009)

Ursa major said:


> Sad to say, I find that there are many times when reading a book is far more productive than writing one.


 
For me too, Urse.



Connavar said:


> You cant be a hack reader...


 
You can if you like reading hacks. After all, Goodkind has a huge fanbase...


----------



## J-WO (Nov 20, 2009)

j. d. worthington said:


> I wouldn't feel too badly about that. Even HPL, at one point, wrote ad copy (see "Commercial Blurbs" in *Miscellaneous Writings*....).



'This collector's dining set is made to exacting standards of preternatural, blasphemous horror...'


----------



## Connavar (Nov 20, 2009)

knivesout said:


> As someone who hacks out ad copy, corporate website content and other verbal atrocities for a living, all I can say to Connavar's post is: 'Too true!'




Nah i have respect for real working joe's, i meant people that thinks getting published makes them a great writer.    

Everyone can write non-fiction,fiction these days.


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## j d worthington (Nov 20, 2009)

J-WO said:


> 'This collector's dining set is made to exacting standards of preternatural, blasphemous horror...'


 
*chuckle* Not quite -- though that certainly would have made people sit up and take notice....


----------



## dreamhunter (Nov 21, 2009)

It does add to GNP or GDP. In some way or other. Directly or indirectly. On a macro basis, anyway.

Even if it might not feel exactly like it, when it's just you flipping thru something you bought yesterday.

Like, just imagine it. A million books being bought n read in a year, say. How much extra money does that cause to flow around in the country's economic system? Must add up to quite a bit, doesn't it?


----------



## j d worthington (Nov 21, 2009)

dreamhunter said:


> It does add to GNP or GDP. In some way or other. Directly or indirectly. On a macro basis, anyway.
> 
> Even if it might not feel exactly like it, when it's just you flipping thru something you bought yesterday.
> 
> Like, just imagine it. A million books being bought n read in a year, say. How much extra money does that cause to flow around in the country's economic system? Must add up to quite a bit, doesn't it?


 
Yes, it does, if you are including the purchase of the book. But I was responding to the poster's comment about reading or writing... the sale of the book as a separate issue. Even if it is something that, say, you have inherited via several generations, reading is still a productive process in many ways. If you add in the purchase/sale aspect, then the GNP/GDP connection will be much more direct, or much less removed....

Either way, though, reading is itself _not_ nonproductive... it just may not necessarily be _fiscally_ productive....


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Nov 22, 2009)

I would love to read HPL's ad copy sometime!


----------



## J-WO (Nov 22, 2009)

I wonder if enough famous writers have written ad copy to put together an anthology?
Come on, Penguin; quit holding out on us!


----------



## K. Riehl (Nov 24, 2009)

When I encounter the occasional person who brings up Science Fiction in a pejorative sense as being only for Geeks, I respond with a list of Geeks who have been far more successful in life than they are. 

Bill Gates, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Joss Whedon, Gene Roddenberry, etc...

Then I refuse to help them fix their computer and leave them hanging


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Nov 24, 2009)

J-WO said:


> I wonder if enough famous writers have written ad copy to put together an anthology?
> Come on, Penguin; quit holding out on us!


  Salman Rushdie used to be an ad copywriter. I believe he once did a chocolate ad for christmas with the line 'Naughty, but nice'.


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## Vladd67 (Nov 24, 2009)

knivesout said:


> Salman Rushdie used to be an ad copywriter. I believe he once did a chocolate ad for christmas with the line 'Naughty, but nice'.



Wasn't Naughty but nice the slogan for cream cakes? Rushdie also came up with the slogans for the Aero chocolate bar: "delectabubble" and "incredibubble".


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## J-WO (Nov 24, 2009)

I think it was Fay Weldon who came up with 'Go to work on an egg'.


----------



## Daisy-Boo (Dec 7, 2009)

knivesout said:


> >> Time spent alone not doing something productive is considered geeky in some sense or another.
> 
> I somehow suspect that this is a sentiment thought up by factory foremen and corporate managers, to say nothing of marketing executives, who don't mind you being unproductive as long as it is done in public with the aid of their product.


 

So very true! 

I happen to believe in the therapeutic benefits of "doing nothing" and therefore I indulge myself as often as I can.


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## J-WO (Dec 7, 2009)

Daisy-Boo said:


> So very true!
> 
> I happen to believe in the therapeutic benefits of "doing nothing" and therefore I indulge myself as often as I can.




Absolutely! Everywhere I go there is this ugly worship of the work ethic. Very unhealthy. In fact its spreading faster than swine flu.


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## Daisy-Boo (Dec 8, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Absolutely! Everywhere I go there is this ugly worship of the work ethic. Very unhealthy. In fact its spreading faster than swine flu.


 
I'm so glad you agree. We have to set a healthy example for others.


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## J-WO (Dec 8, 2009)

Daisy-Boo said:


> I'm so glad you agree. We have to set a healthy example for others.



Great idea but, um... sounds like a lot of effort...


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## Daisy-Boo (Dec 8, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Great idea but, um... sounds like a lot of effort...


 
Ah but see...we don't actually have to do anything. We do nothing, others watch us...and are inspired to emulate us.

I gave this a great deal of thought - in the 15 minutes I allocate on a daily basis to strenuous activities like thinking and...stuff.


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## J-WO (Dec 8, 2009)

Daisy-Boo said:


> Ah but see...we don't actually have to do anything. We do nothing, others watch us...and are inspired to emulate us.
> 
> I gave this a great deal of thought - in the 15 minutes I allocate on a daily basis to strenuous activities like thinking and...stuff.



Let our great crusade begin! I'm gonna have a lie down...


----------



## littlemissattitude (Dec 16, 2009)

Did you know that there is a significant crossover between science fiction fans in general (and Doctor Who fans in particular) and knitters?

At the shop where I go knit, we were trying to decide one day why that is.  We came to the conclusion that science fiction attracts geeks, and so does knitting (and other fiber arts such as crocheting, spinning, dying fabrics, and so forth), so that the crossover is natural.

In fact, at the knitting shop "geek" is actually a term of endearment.

Where do I fit into all of this?  Well, I keep threatening to get a t-shirt made that says "Geek From Birth", because it's pretty much true.  And am I proud of that?  You bet.


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## J-WO (Dec 17, 2009)

Could this knitting/ Doctor Who thing have something to do with Tom Baker's scarf?


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## littlemissattitude (Dec 17, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Could this knitting/ Doctor Who thing have something to do with Tom Baker's scarf?


 
It could, but these are mostly not knitters who learned to knit just because they wanted to make a Scarf.  For example, I've knitted three Scarves, a Season 12 and two Season 16's, but I didn't learn to knit because I wanted to knit one.

On the other hand, I know a knitter who is currently writing a book about the Scarves; she's now visited at least two of the originals and has interviewed several people involved with the making of the original scarves for the show.

Anyway, this isn't specific to the Doctor...as I said in my previous post, the crossover extends to science fiction in general.  I always run into other knitters at cons, and not just at Gallifrey One (the Doctor Who con I attend  in Los Angeles).


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## Daisy-Boo (Dec 17, 2009)

I love that knitters are science fiction fans too. 

I like decorating boxes - does that make me a double geek?


----------



## Parson (Dec 17, 2009)

Daisy-Boo said:


> I love that knitters are science fiction fans too.
> 
> I like decorating boxes - does that make me a double geek?



That would be Geek Squared. 

(As in "She's so square, she cubical." said in late 60's stoner vernacular."


----------



## Interference (Dec 17, 2009)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> Well, my thoughts on the subject can be summed up in two sentences:
> 
> Yes it is. And there's nothing wrong with that.





j. d. worthington said:


> Teresa pretty much nailed it.



But ... she started a sentence with "And"  ....


----------



## thepaladin (Dec 17, 2009)

Starting a sentence with "and" isn't incorrect per se, it's simply frowned upon. If used discreetly therefore I find it "daring".


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## Interference (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm afraid the geek in me disagrees.  Beginning with a conjunction is just wrong, like pinning the donkey to the tail.  It's nearly as bad as ending with a preposition or splitting that demmed infinitive.

And that's all there is to it


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## Pyan (Dec 17, 2009)

_Really_, Interference? 

Try Genesis, Chapter 1...


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## Interference (Dec 17, 2009)

C'mon, Py, that was written _loooong_ before the rules were invented.  Honestly, there are some spurious arguments and then there are some spurious arguments ....


----------



## j d worthington (Dec 17, 2009)

Parson said:


> That would be Geek Squared.
> 
> (As in "She's so square, she cubical." said in late 60's stoner vernacular."


 
*chuckle* That reminds me of a bit of dialogue from an old Eando Binder book, *The Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker* (based, of course, on the Marvel comic characters) -- Hawkeye about Captain America: "He's so square he's a cube -- _cubed_!"


----------



## Sparrow (Dec 17, 2009)

> Beginning with a conjunction is just wrong, like pinning the donkey to the tail.




_And Then There Were None_, by Agatha Christie.


The consensus among grammarians is that beginning sentences with conjunctions is acceptable and that admonitions against it are superstition.

_And_ is a mighty word, use it often, and with reckless abandon.


----------



## jojajihisc (Dec 17, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> _And Then There Were None_, by Agatha Christie.
> 
> 
> The consensus among grammarians is that beginning sentences with conjunctions is acceptable and that admonitions against it are superstition.
> ...



And I agree. By the way, have you ever seen the original title to that Agatha Christie book? Not good.


----------



## Sparrow (Dec 17, 2009)

Yes... and probably not politically correct even by the low standards of that era.

Actually, I would love to have a copy of that edition just for the novelty value alone.


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## Interference (Dec 17, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> ... is acceptable and that admonitions against it are superstition.



It's okay, I spun round three times, uttered the anti-bad-luck phrase, "And that about wraps it up for another night" and spat on the floor twice.  I'm well protected, me


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## J-WO (Dec 18, 2009)

littlemissattitude said:


> It could, but these are mostly not knitters who learned to knit just because they wanted to make a Scarf.  For example, I've knitted three Scarves, a Season 12 and two Season 16's, but I didn't learn to knit because I wanted to knit one.
> 
> On the other hand, I know a knitter who is currently writing a book about the Scarves; she's now visited at least two of the originals and has interviewed several people involved with the making of the original scarves for the show.
> 
> Anyway, this isn't specific to the Doctor...as I said in my previous post, the crossover extends to science fiction in general.  I always run into other knitters at cons, and not just at Gallifrey One (the Doctor Who con I attend  in Los Angeles).


 
Maybe its because one can knit and watch a Sci-Fi series simultaneously. Especially with these new-fangled DVD box sets.


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## Omphalos (Dec 18, 2009)

Wow.  Knitting and SF.  Never saw that one coming.  I would have guessed gaming and SF, or modelers and SF, but not knitting.  I know a few knitters here in Sacramento and they are not SF fans.  Too bad, because other than me and my brother, SF really has very few fans.  That's one of the reasons I love going up to Seattle so much for work.  There are a bunch of fans up there.


----------



## thepaladin (Dec 18, 2009)

It's amazing what people who enjoy science fiction and fantasy also enjoy doing.


----------



## littlemissattitude (Dec 18, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Maybe its because one can knit and watch a Sci-Fi series simultaneously. Especially with these new-fangled DVD box sets.


 
Well, I will admit that we sometimes have DVD-watching, knitting marathons.  And they aren't limited to Doctor Who.

And Omphalos...the knitters I know are not mostly the stereotype of knitters - you know, old ladies with blue hair who spend more time showing photos of their grandchildren than they do knitting.  A good portion of the women I knit with are more likely to be showing off their most recent tattoos than photos or kids or grandkids.  And they aren't all women, either.  We have several males who are regulars at the shop, including at least two husband and wife couples who come in together.  There is another knitter who is a fire marshal in his work life, and who also has photos of himself knitting while in full armor as a medieval reenactor in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronisms).  We also have a female commercial pilot who knits with us sometimes, and an aircraft engineer and a private investigator (both also female)


----------



## Daisy-Boo (Dec 18, 2009)

Parson said:


> That would be Geek Squared.
> 
> (As in "She's so square, she cubical." said in late 60's stoner vernacular."


 
*giggle*

I originally wanted to write _geek squared_, couldn't figure out how to get superscript and amazingly, it never occured to me to simply write it out in full, as you did.


----------



## Parson (Dec 18, 2009)

Daisy-Boo said:


> *giggle*
> 
> I originally wanted to write _geek squared_, couldn't figure out how to get superscript and amazingly, it never occured to me to simply write it out in full, as you did.



Okay. It never occurred to me to struggle to find out how to do superscript in this low tech word processor..... I thought I would be smart and cut and paste, and guess what it came out Geek2 .... Lower tech word processor than I first imagined. Now the question is... Which of us really is a Geek squared? 

I don't knit or decorate boxes. So...


----------



## j d worthington (Dec 18, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> Yes... and probably not politically correct even by the low standards of that era.


 
Given my reading from that era... I rather doubt the truth of that statement. It certainly sold like mad under that title, and retained that title for some time (I once had a much later printing of the book; it went through a considerable number of printings, and if you wish, you could probably find it without much trouble or expense....)

Recall, for example, that virtually no one batted an eye at use of that word in the bulk of fiction until around the 1960s -- except, of course, for those on the receiving end. Nor did the word always carry such negative connotations, at least by intent. Our current perspective on it certainly has justification enough, but it doesn't match up with the history of its use very well....And let's not forget, say, the common use of "golliwogg" (_vide_ Debussy), and how popular golliwogg dolls were until _very_ recent times....


----------



## Daisy-Boo (Dec 21, 2009)

Parson said:


> Now the question is... Which of us really is a Geek squared? QUOTE]
> 
> Look at our conversation thread...I'd say we're tied in the geek stakes.


----------



## Vladd67 (Dec 21, 2009)

j. d. worthington said:


> Given my reading from that era... I rather doubt the truth of that statement. It certainly sold like mad under that title, and retained that title for some time (I once had a much later printing of the book; it went through a considerable number of printings, and if you wish, you could probably find it without much trouble or expense....)
> 
> Recall, for example, that virtually no one batted an eye at use of that word in the bulk of fiction until around the 1960s -- except, of course, for those on the receiving end. Nor did the word always carry such negative connotations, at least by intent. Our current perspective on it certainly has justification enough, but it doesn't match up with the history of its use very well....And let's not forget, say, the common use of "golliwogg" (_vide_ Debussy), and how popular golliwogg dolls were until _very_ recent times....


Makes you wonder what Wing Commander Guy Gibson's dog is going to be called in the remake


----------



## Werewoman (Dec 21, 2009)

I used to cross-stitch and watch old episodes of Star Trek simultaneously. Is that geeky?


----------



## Connavar (Dec 21, 2009)

j. d. worthington said:


> Given my reading from that era... I rather doubt the truth of that statement. It certainly sold like mad under that title, and retained that title for some time (I once had a much later printing of the book; it went through a considerable number of printings, and if you wish, you could probably find it without much trouble or expense....)
> 
> Recall, for example, that virtually no one batted an eye at use of that word in the bulk of fiction until around the 1960s -- except, of course, for those on the receiving end. Nor did the word always carry such negative connotations, at least by intent. Our current perspective on it certainly has justification enough, but it doesn't match up with the history of its use very well....And let's not forget, say, the common use of "golliwogg" (_vide_ Debussy), and how popular golliwogg dolls were until _very_ recent times....




The first Agatha Christia book i heard of and was ordered to read in school,talk about afterwards was in Swedish "* Tio små Neger Pojkar*"

That was in middle school around 95-96,shocking it wasnt seen as offending...


----------



## J-WO (Dec 22, 2009)

Werewoman said:


> I used to cross-stitch and watch old episodes of Star Trek simultaneously. Is that geeky?




Only if you're knitting a woolen Batt'leth. 

(Or however you spell it...)


----------



## Ursa major (Dec 22, 2009)

Wouldn't using a woollen bat'leth be a bit like wielding a crochet mallet...?


----------



## Werewoman (Dec 22, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Only if you're knitting a woolen Batt'leth.
> 
> (Or however you spell it...)


 
Cross-stitch is not the same as knitting, it's more like embroidery - with thousands upon thousands of tiny 'x's. Grueling, but the results are wonderful! I could cross-stitch a bat'leth on your wooly socks, though if you like. 

And just for the record, dude, the bat'leth had not yet been introduced into the Star Trek saga until the Next Generation. Therefore, tis sacrilege to mention such things in the same context as the original Star Trek. *pokes her thumbs in her ears, waggles her fingers, and sticks her tongue out at J-WO*  I'm a bit of a purist at heart, I'm afraid. 



Ursa major said:


> Wouldn't using a woollen bat'leth be a bit like wielding a crochet mallet...?


 
Something like that, yeah, Ursa. LOL!


----------



## Parson (Dec 22, 2009)

Ursa major said:


> Wouldn't using a woollen bat'leth be a bit like wielding a crochet mallet...?



Oh Groan!!! That was too good Ursa! I even read it once without picking up the outrageous pun. I'm feeling dumb!!


----------



## Dave (Dec 22, 2009)

The more I read this thread, the more it increasingly makes me think of 'White N' Nerdy'.






Sorry, embedding is disabled on all the versions I could find.


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## J-WO (Dec 23, 2009)

Werewoman said:


> Cross-stitch is not the same as knitting, it's more like embroidery - with thousands upon thousands of tiny 'x's. Grueling, but the results are wonderful! I could cross-stitch a bat'leth on your wooly socks, though if you like.
> 
> And just for the record, dude, the bat'leth had not yet been introduced into the Star Trek saga until the Next Generation. Therefore, tis sacrilege to mention such things in the same context as the original Star Trek. *pokes her thumbs in her ears, waggles her fingers, and sticks her tongue out at J-WO*  I'm a bit of a purist at heart, I'm afraid.



I don't know cross stitch from knitting and I've messed up my trek history! There go my geek credentials! 

(Acually, I much prefer the Klingons when they were outright B*##**ds and not the honour bound culture they became. I hope the new Trek films go back to the old version, though I suspect I'm in the minority there)


----------



## J-WO (Dec 23, 2009)

Ursa major said:


> Wouldn't using a woollen bat'leth be a bit like wielding a crochet mallet...?



Oh yeah... so that's why my bookshelves keep falling apart...


----------



## littlemissattitude (Dec 24, 2009)

J-WO said:


> I don't know cross stitch from knitting and I've messed up my trek history! There go my geek credentials!


 
Cross-stitch: uses one, usually very small, needle with an eye in it to thread the embroidery floss through.

Knitting: uses two or more straight needles that are pointed at one or both ends as well as sometimes, two needles connected by a (usually) plastic cable that allows you to knit in the round or make larger items that would not fit on straight needles.

Knitting is much more fun, because the needles can be used as weapons if need be. Or, as many of us knitters say, "I have pointy sticks, and I know how to use them."

And, you ought not go into the knitting shop where I knit if you're going to mess up your Trek history, especially in relation to the original series. The owner's husband is a TOS purist, and he will set you straight given half a chance. Much to his wife's dismay.

EDIT: Not sure what happened with the formatting for the quote, but I can't seem to fix it.
EDIT 2: I think I figured it out.
EDIT 3: Yes.  And I think I better give up while I'm ahead.  I got up very early this morning.


----------



## J-WO (Dec 24, 2009)

littlemissattitude said:


> Knitting is much more fun, because the needles can be used as weapons if need be. Or, as many of us knitters say, "I have pointy sticks, and I know how to use them."
> 
> And, you ought not go into the knitting shop where I knit if you're going to mess up your Trek history, especially in relation to the original series. The owner's husband is a TOS purist, and he will set you straight given half a chance. Much to his wife's dismay.



Ha, then I'd probably stumble out of that shop with needles in my eyes and my ass warmly phasered!


----------



## Werewoman (Dec 24, 2009)

Hey, I can do real damage with an embroidery needle if need be, ya know. 

Arg! Here's a needle in yer eye! *poke* Take that ya scurvy swine!

Hm...doesn't sound terribly dangerous, does it? 

You can keep your geekiness credentials, J-WO. I won't tell anyone.


----------



## littlemissattitude (Dec 25, 2009)

J-WO said:


> Ha, then I'd probably stumble out of that shop with needles in my eyes and my ass warmly phasered!


 
Nah.  Meg would shut him down long before he got out the phasers.  And then she'd sit you down and teach you to knit.  She's a very patient woman, Meg is.


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (Dec 25, 2009)

With cross-stitch, you use little stitches to make a pattern or a picture _on_ an existing fabric.

Knitting is more like weaving, in that you are actually _creating_ a fabric. 

They are completely different processes with entirely different results.



			
				J-WO said:
			
		

> Actually, I much prefer the Klingons when they were outright B*##**ds and not the honour bound culture they became.



That was never my impression of the Klingons in the original series.  They were fierce, inflexible, arrogant, but it always seemed to me there was _some_ implication that they lived by a code of their own ... it was just never explained what that code was.  

So while it would be fun to see the Klingons as simply dangerous and inscrutable again, I think it would be like taking a character that had acquired depth and complexity and moving him backward to a less developed characterization in order to make him scary and evil.  (They do this all of the time in soap operas, but I don't think it would go over with Star Trek fans.)


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## Dave (Dec 25, 2009)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> That was never my impression of the Klingons in the original series.  They were fierce, inflexible, arrogant, but it always seemed to me there was _some_ implication that they lived by a code of their own ... it was just never explained what that code was.


I thought the Klingons in TOS were thinly disguised Cold War Russians. "Day of the Dove" has obvious Viet Nam parallels. (The Romulans were the Chinese.)

There is Star Trek connection with garment making - Garak the Tailor.


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## J-WO (Dec 25, 2009)

Yeah, Dave, I think you nailed what I'm getting at better than I could. Next Generation gave the Klingons an ethnicity, I think, very much in line with the needs of the late eighties/ nineties. I'd like to see them half-return to a cold war take, more modern North Korea rather than medieval Japan. Get rid of all that camp armour and stick 'em in grey authoritarian uniforms.

Something new, anyhow. The equivalent of what Ledger did with the Joker-- true to the essence but simultaneously radical. After all, Klingons in their present state are the very totem the mainstream wields when they laugh. Which, fortunately, brings things back on topic.

(Blimey; I'm talking about Star Trek races on Christmas day. Looks like I got my geekdom back!)


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## Esioul (Mar 20, 2010)

Hmph. Nothing wrong with being a geek.


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## AE35Unit (Mar 20, 2010)

Esioul said:


> Hmph. Nothing wrong with being a geek.


Absolutely dead right!


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## Esioul (Mar 21, 2010)

And then there's the apparent distinction between being a 'geek' and a 'nerd'. Apparently it's better to be a geek, according to my friends, although I think it's fine to be a nerd too. Normality is dull.


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## AE35Unit (Mar 21, 2010)

Esioul said:


> And then there's the apparent distinction between being a 'geek' and a 'nerd'. Apparently it's better to be a geek, according to my friends, although I think it's fine to be a nerd too. Normality is dull.


I thought they were one and the same?


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## Esioul (Mar 21, 2010)

Apparently a 'nerd' is someone like a computer nerd, or someone who is just very 'geeky abotu one thng, whereas a 'geek' is someone who generaly is into lots of sci fi, fantasy, gaming sort of stuff. So you might get a physicist who is a nerd, but someone else who happens to like lots of sci fi and fantasy and is a geek. Personally I don't think there is a difference, but this is what I am told, anyway.


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## GrownUp (Mar 21, 2010)

This whole scientist-pop culture obsessive equivalence is all newish.
Possible American? In my youth, here in the UK, scientists were not nerds. They were not geeks. They were boffins! 

Therefore am a geek AND a boffin. Mainly a boffin!


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## AE35Unit (Mar 21, 2010)

GrownUp said:


> This whole scientist-pop culture obsessive equivalence is all newish.
> Possible American? In my youth, here in the UK, scientists were not nerds. They were not geeks. They were boffins!
> 
> Therefore am a geek AND a boffin. Mainly a boffin!


hmm, I like SF and hate the use that awful moniker scifi-I dont do fantasy apart from dark fantasy and horror, I love stuff about science,space and love me gadgets! Is that geekism or nerdishness?


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## GrownUp (Mar 21, 2010)

AE35Unit said:


> I love stuff about science,space and love me gadgets! Is that geekism or nerdishness?



Neither. It's cool.

Add that to a motorcycle and a guitar and you might very well be a God.


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## Ursa major (Mar 21, 2010)

Wheely?!


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## GrownUp (Mar 21, 2010)

Ursa major said:


> Wheely?!



Oh Yes.


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## Esioul (Mar 22, 2010)

Yeah I remember boffins! I was a 'boff' at school. I suspect it was meant as an insult, but I always took it as a compliment...


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## J-WO (Mar 22, 2010)

The word 'Boffin' conjures up tweed suits and pipes, the bouncing bomb and decoding Enigma with special machines in a shed somewhere in the home counties.


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## Ursa major (Mar 22, 2010)

But given that Esioul's avatar only shows her face, how do you know that her clothing and location don't meet that specification, J-WO?



(And before you mention the pipe, we do have laws about using one of those indoors.)


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## J-WO (Mar 23, 2010)

No over-sized 1940's spectacles held together with a band-aid.


(No pipe indoors? Gads, no wonder we lost the Empire!)


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## Ursa major (Mar 23, 2010)

The specs are obviously designed to be invisible.... 



_(Well, see-through, at any rate.)_


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## Vladd67 (Mar 23, 2010)

J-WO said:


> The word 'Boffin' conjures up tweed suits and pipes, the bouncing bomb and decoding Enigma with special machines in a shed somewhere in the home counties.


As some one who grew up near Bletchley Park where the Enigma was cracked I can confirm that the buildings used were basically large sheds, the actual original manor house is an hideous example of victorian gothic. If Turing and Co were geeks then i am proud to bear that label too.


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## GrownUp (Mar 23, 2010)

J-WO said:


> The word 'Boffin' conjures up tweed suits and pipes, the bouncing bomb and decoding Enigma with special machines in a shed somewhere in the home counties.



Oh yes. But also white lab coats and glasses, and crinkly white hair just around ear level. Or piles and piles of books and a shady library and fountain pens and dust.


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## Daisy-Boo (Mar 23, 2010)

GrownUp said:


> ...Or piles and piles of books and a shady library and fountain pens...


 
A slice of heaven.


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## thepaladin (Mar 23, 2010)

GrownUp said:


> a shady library and fountain pens and dust.


  sounds like my place.....


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## Ursa major (Mar 23, 2010)

Don't be tempted by the dark side....


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## thepaladin (Mar 23, 2010)

Well, most of the pens are actually ball points or roller ball fine points....but as for the stacks of books and dust....I'm there!


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## J-WO (Mar 23, 2010)

Ursa major said:


> Don't be tempted by the dark side....



Dark side? Don't you mean dusty sideboard?


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## Dave (Mar 23, 2010)

GrownUp said:


> Oh yes. But also white lab coats and glasses, and crinkly white hair just around ear level.


Is anyone old enough to remember those 1980's TEFAL TV advertisements with R&D chaps with huge foreheads, white lab coats, pockets full of biros, and glasses?


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## J-WO (Mar 24, 2010)

The memory keeps bubbling up but sinking back into my subconscious again, Dave. Though, bizarrely, I've now got images of an animated skeleton with a video cassette, singing 'Re-record not fade away'. I haven't made that up, surely?


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## AE35Unit (Mar 24, 2010)

J-WO said:


> The memory keeps bubbling up but sinking back into my subconscious again, Dave. Though, bizarrely, I've now got images of an animated skeleton with a video cassette, singing 'Re-record not fade away'. I haven't made that up, surely?


I'm gonna tell you how its going to be
Dum da dum dum,da dum
With Scoth's lifetime gurantee
Dum da dum dum,da dum

No J,you didn't make it up!


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## J-WO (Mar 24, 2010)

What; _you're_ the skeleton? Agh!

_(I'd have put money on Boneman)_


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## GrownUp (Mar 24, 2010)

It shut a drawer with its hip, in a dancey way, didn't it? And it had a skeleton parrot in a cage?

Staying on-topic, it had quite a boffin voice.


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## Ursa major (Mar 24, 2010)

I thought it was voiced by Derek Guyler, who didn't usually play boffins, as far as I know.


(He played the school caretaker in _Please, Sir!_ and a policeman in _Sykes_.)


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## Interference (Mar 24, 2010)

Yep, Derek Guyler it was.  Very odd ad altogether.

Very odd ad.


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## GrownUp (Mar 24, 2010)

Heh. Odd ad.

Odd ad. Odd ad. Odd ad.
Now I've bitten my tongue.

...that'll teach me for enjoying sounds.


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## Ursa major (Mar 24, 2010)

Oh look! A sound bite....


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## J-WO (Mar 25, 2010)

GrownUp said:


> Odd ad.
> 
> Odd ad. Odd ad. Odd ad.



Reads like you are humming the tune to the Pink Panther.


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## Parson (Mar 25, 2010)

I'm not sure but it would seem to me that the way this thread went off topic in the most bizarre way we have disproved  the thesis. Would Geeks stop talking about the topic to follow adverts and the Pink Panther?


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## thepaladin (Mar 25, 2010)

Probably depends on the Geeks...


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## Interference (Mar 25, 2010)

There was a topic?  Golly, I'm so not geeky, I didn't even look


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