# Terry Gilliam



## Harpo (Oct 9, 2013)

Yesterday I watched Terry Gilliam's film "Jabberwocky" for the first time in over twenty years.  I love it.  
I love every TG film that I've seen, and as a bonus I have watched "Monty Python And The Holy Grail" (on a huge screen in Trafalgar Square) while standing about 20 feet away from the great man himself.

Many of his films involve SFF themes, so I think we should be able to discuss them here.


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## Lenny (Oct 9, 2013)

I went through a Gilliam-watching phase five or six years ago, and *Brazil* still remains one of my favourite SF films.

He's got a new film out in December called *The Zero Theorem*, starring Christoph Waltz as a computer genius working on a formula to try and determine whether life holds meaning, that is to be the final film in Gilliam's 'dystopian satire trilogy' (that began with Brazil, and continued with *12 Monkeys*). It looks suitably wacky.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 9, 2013)

Very hit and miss.  Time Bandits is one of my all-time favourite movies, and The Fisher King is brilliant. Never did like  Brazil though, too surreal for my tastes.


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## Moonbat (Oct 9, 2013)

I love some of Terry's films, *12 Monkeys* is a particularly good one, I loved *Time Bandits* as a kid and *Fear & Loathing* is brilliant, but I have to say that *Tideland* is one of the worst films I have ever seen, it stars Jeff Bridges but it's main star is a young girl. It is just odd and not very good. It ranks along *Innocence* (a 2004 French film) as one of the awful films that Sonia has made me watch, but didn't manage to get through herself.


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## Stephen Palmer (Oct 10, 2013)

Another fan of _Jabberwocky_ and _Brazil_ here. I watched_ Brazil_ recently, having not seen it for years, and it still stands up alongside the best in the genre. _Time Bandits_ also is simply delightful.


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## HareBrain (Oct 10, 2013)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Another fan of _Jabberwocky_ and _Brazil_ here.



Likewise. I haven't seen *Jabberwocky* for years -- it doesn't seem to get shown on UK TV -- and now I really want to see it again. Wasn't there a knight with a dog's head as a crest on his helmet, whose ears flapped as he jousted? Lots of lovely little touches like those.

No one yet has mentioned *The Adventures of Baron Munchhausen*, which I think has some great visual moments, but which particularly suffers from what I think is Gilliam's only real flaw, his self-indulgence. But I guess that's the flip-side of his visionary genius, and I'd much rather have both than neither.


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## J-Sun (Oct 10, 2013)

For me, _The Holy Grail_ is a masterpiece but also a full Python film, so not so much a "Gilliam" film. _Brazil_ was certainly worth watching and I can see how many people might love it though I actually don't. I sort of hated _Munchausen_. _12 Monkeys_ was also worth watching - I can't remember why it didn't exactly work for me, though. It was almost great but I think I didn't like the ending or something. But it's also kind of an atypical and less "Gilliam" film than others. And I really really hate _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ despite (or maybe because of) being a fan of sorts of Thompson and Depp. I haven't seen the rest and have lost the inclination to do so but I may have missed a couple of essentials like _The Time Bandits_ may be.

On the negatives, I'll agree with self-indulgence in the sense of loose structure but also (don't know if this was part of it) a sort of lack of taste - there's whimsy and grotesquerie and then there's just being repellent and he's sometimes one and sometimes the other, at least for me.

But, yeah, if you're tired of Corporate Product and looking for someone with a personal vision, he's definitely worth a look.


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## River Boy (Oct 10, 2013)

His films inspire love / hate reactions, I thought Tideland was brilliant but I haven't convinced myself to watch The Fisher King again yet.

He's probably my favourite director though. I don't mind if the odd film misses the mark as long as he continues to look to show us, in his own words 'thing they haven't seen before'.

I think his masterpieces are Brazil, Fear and Loathing, and Twelve Monkeys, but I enjoy all his other films as well and feel most - especially the more recent Tideland, Brothers Grimm and Imaginarium - are very underrated. Think Baron Munchhausen is the messiest but still enjoyable, and will get round to trying The Fisher King again at some point.


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## Christopher A. Gray (Oct 11, 2013)

J-Sun said:


> And I really really hate _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_ despite (or maybe because of) being a fan of sorts of Thompson and Depp.



You should give it another chance. I too hated it at first, but watched it again a few years later. There are a lot of subtleties you miss the first time around.


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## Stephen Palmer (Oct 11, 2013)

Munchausen is quite a weak film, and too long, which is probably why few people mention it.

Good point about King Arthur, though, the Python film.


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## finbaa (Oct 12, 2013)

Brazil is one my favourite films of all time. I love Gilliam, although he is nuts as well. Do you know he was supposed to direct the first Harry Potter film? I wish that had happened: I'm sure he would have cast better actors than those horrible precocious drama school kids that were in it


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## tegeus-Cromis (Jul 10, 2019)

Just saw _The Man Who Killed Don Quixote _last night. I'm not a great Gilliam fan, so I wasn't expecting a masterpiece, but I was surprised to realize how much, much, MUCH better it is than most of the critics said. For one, it's significantly more linear and coherent than the reviews claimed, and to my mind not at all the "mess" many said it was (even if some called it a "glorious" mess). Also, none that I read got the fact that most incidents in it, as well as the overall arc, are taken directly from Cervantes. By the last act it achieves a kind of Fellinian grandeur. In the same way that DQ was a meditation on the possibility of heroic ideals in (what to Cervantes was) the modern world, Gilliam's film seems to ask whether it's possible to keep telling the same old (and for a long time seemingly immortal) idealistic tales in today's corporate, thoroughly cynical, debased and depraved (both economically and personally) postmodern capitalist climate. I won't give away his answer.


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## AlexH (Aug 12, 2019)

I agree with @Moonbat about Tideland - a terrible film.

The only Gilliam film I've seen I liked is The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus.

Don't like but they're not quite as bad as Tideland: Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Brazil, Monty Python and the Holy Grail.


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## asp3 (Aug 13, 2021)

Brazil is one of my top 10 favorite movies.  I don't really have any desire to see any of his other films again  I enjoyed them and might have seen a few twice or more, but I'm not that into watching movies over and over unless they're really special for me.  Brazil falls into that category for me. I find the ending very depressing.


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## Mon0Zer0 (Aug 13, 2021)

I saw Brazil a few years back at Abbey Road when they opened it up for a showing. I'd seen it before but it really benefitted from being seen on the big screen. I can't say it's a movie I would watch for fun. It is funny, but in a bitter, dark way that's not pleasant. I love the set design and the ideas it contains more than the viewing experience. It's a great movie, nevertheless.

Fisher King was enjoyable, as was 12 monkeys.

I loved Fear and Loathing and still do 50% because of Hunter S Thompson's electric prose, 50% because Gilliam gets the drug experience 100% right in all of its absurd, pathetic and surreal ways. Depp gets Thompson just right. It's a faithful translation of the book to the screen, and for a book that's borderline unfilmable, that's some achievement.

Tideland is execrable garbage. 

Time Bandits looms over my childhood. It's completely memorable - the bandits themselves, the god and devil characters... but I remember being terrified of it as a kid, and I hated the ending as it was so downbeat. For a kids movie it's exceedingly dark. 

Still haven't seen Don Quixote.


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## Rodders (Aug 13, 2021)

I adored Time Bandits, but i struggle with Brazil. I've watched it once and i'm not overly impressed. 

12 Monkeys is superb, but a hard film to watch.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 14, 2021)

On thing I hate about his films is why thye take cruel twist 

*Time Bandits    *Why did the kids parent have to die  ? Thats just flat out mean.


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## Vince W (Aug 14, 2021)

*Time Bandits* is, of course, my favourite of his films, but a close second is the bizarrely violent *Jabberwocky*. *Twelve Monkeys* is one I can watch sparingly.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 14, 2021)

Vince W said:


> *Time Bandits* is, of course, my favourite of his films, but a close second is the bizarrely violent *Jabberwocky*. *Twelve Monkeys* is one I can watch sparingly.



Ive seen Jabberwocky. I fond ot not yo be a very good film.

Twelve Monkeys is a great science fiction film no question . But that said, Ive grown to hate this film.


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## Ray Zdybrow (Aug 14, 2021)

I really liked Twelve Monkeys, especially for Brad Pitt's _homage_ to Jim Carrey


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## paranoid marvin (Aug 14, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> On thing I hate about his films is why thye take cruel twist
> 
> *Time Bandits    *Why did the kids parent have to die  ? Thats just flat out mean.



I think the idea was that although they gave him material things (in fact the whole movie is about material things), they never seemed to have any time for him. Sean Connery's character said that he would adopt Kevin as his own son, and no doubt would have loved and cared for them more than his real parents did. 

For me, the end of the movie paves the way for Connery's new persona as a fireman to re-adopt Kevin.

Overall I think that Gilliam's movies require active participation by the audience. In most, you can't simply sit back and say 'entertain me'. He's a very talented and unique director. They aren't usually easy films to watch, and The Fisher King is another - brilliant to watch, but only occasionally as the sensory input is just too high. For me , FK is Robin Williams finest hour as an actor, and arguably 12 Monkeys brought to the fore the manic character we later see in Fight Club.

In film terms, Gilliam is a genius director, and I would definitely place him in the same category as Kubrick. He is an artist, and he has very much brought his artistic nature into his film directing.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 30, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> I think the idea was that although they gave him material things (in fact the whole movie is about material things), they never seemed to have any time for him. Sean Connery's character said that he would adopt Kevin as his own son, and no doubt would have loved and cared for them more than his real parents did.
> 
> For me, the end of the movie paves the way for Connery's new persona as a fireman to re-adopt Kevin.
> 
> ...



One person I  would like to have seen him work with on a project is Harlan Ellison.


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## Guttersnipe (Aug 31, 2021)

I like most of his stuff, haven't seen all of his movies. I never understood the appeal Brazil has for others. Love Time Bandits, The Fisher King, and the Baron Munchausen, which was an acquired taste.


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## CupofJoe (Aug 31, 2021)

Terry Gilliam is one of the few directors that I enjoy watching but rarely want to go back and re-watch. Oliver Stone is another.


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## Harpo (Oct 6, 2021)

Today in the charity shop I found a copy of The Imaginarium Of Doctor Parnassus, one of the few TG films that I haven’t yet seen.

if it’s raining on my birthday I’ll stay in and watch it.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 7, 2021)

Guttersnipe said:


> I like most of his stuff, haven't seen all of his movies. I never understood the appeal Brazil has for others. Love Time Bandits, The Fisher King, and the Baron Munchausen, which was an acquired taste.



I so wanted Sam Lowery and Jill Layton to Get away, for real . Why wouldn't  Gilliam let Lowery win in the end? *Brazil* is a great film but, I despise that ending.


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## asp3 (Oct 7, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> I so wanted Sam Lowery and Jill Layton to Get away, for real . Why wouldn't  Gilliam let Lowery win in the end? *Brazil* is a great film but, I despise that ending.



In my view he did get away mentally.  So even though it was a depressing ending Sam Lowery didn't have to deal with the despair of being captured.  I thought it was a perfect ending.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 7, 2021)

Terry Gilliam films tend not to have upbeat endings.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 7, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> Terry Gilliam films tend not to have upbeat endings.



Indeed.


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## Toby Frost (Oct 7, 2021)

I greatly enjoyed _Jabberwocky_: it's a very entertaining sequence of events, even if they don't add up to a terrific film. It looks like a medieval picture. Somehow, despite splattered knights and a briefly naked princess, it's a PG. _Brazil _is good too: it looks amazing. The eye for detail is incredible. I watched _Twelve Monkeys_ again recently, and found it impressive but strangely depressing.

I wish Gilliam had filmed _Alice in Wonderland_ instead of Tim Burton. It would have looked much more interesting and we wouldn't have had to put up with Johnny Depp.


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## HareBrain (Oct 7, 2021)

asp3 said:


> In my view he did get away mentally.  So even though it was a depressing ending Sam Lowery didn't have to deal with the despair of being captured.  I thought it was a perfect ending.


I agree. The state and its bureaucracy always wins in the end -- hence Robert do Niro's character getting literally swamped with paperwork and then ceasing to exist, which I thought was a brilliant touch. An upbeat ending would have allowed the audience to go home reassured, which would have negated the point the film was making.


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## Dan Jones (Oct 7, 2021)

Toby Frost said:


> I greatly enjoyed _Jabberwocky_: it's a very entertaining sequence of events, even if they don't add up to a terrific film.


Good summary of Jabberwocky. I remember one review saying that this film was probably as close as any movie has come to capturing the disgusting day-to-day existences of the lives of medieval folk. It certain is grimy.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 8, 2021)

Dan Jones said:


> Good summary of Jabberwocky. I remember one review saying that this film was probably as close as any movie has come to capturing the disgusting day-to-day existences of the lives of medieval folk. It certain is grimy.




Yes, it feels very 'earthy' like some of the earlier parts of 'Excalibur'.

The thing with Jabberwocky though is that Gilliam done it all 2 years earlier - but far funnier - with Monty Python and the Holy Grail.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 8, 2021)

HareBrain said:


> I agree. The state and its bureaucracy always wins in the end -- hence Robert do Niro's character getting literally swamped with paperwork and then ceasing to exist, which I thought was a brilliant touch. An upbeat ending would have allowed the audience to go home reassured, which would have negated the point the film was making.




I agree, it was the only ending it could have been. I admire Gilliam for what he did with Brazil, but it's not a movie I could ever enjoy watching.

But as I mentioned earlier, he makes movies designed to make you think, not for enjoyment. I think that Stanley Kubrick did the same.


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## asp3 (Oct 8, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> But as I mentioned earlier, he makes movies designed to make you think, not for enjoyment. I think that Stanley Kubrick did the same.



I disagree.  He makes movies that you don't find enjoyable.  I enjoy Brazil and love the entire movie (It's #5 on my list of favorite movies) and enjoy watching it.  For me the thrill of the escape sequence is wonderful even if we eventually find out it's only in his mind.  There are a lot of joyous moments in the film that balance the brutality for me.

I would agree that most people don't enjoy his movies, but I don't think he focuses on making people think at the expense of making enjoyable films.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 8, 2021)

Dan Jones said:


> Good summary of Jabberwocky. I remember one review saying that this film was probably as close as any movie has come to capturing the disgusting day-to-day existences of the lives of medieval folk. It certain is grimy.



In Medieval times , the life expectancy was 35.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 8, 2021)

asp3 said:


> I disagree.  He makes movies that you don't find enjoyable.  I enjoy Brazil and love the entire movie (It's #5 on my list of favorite movies) and enjoy watching it.  For me the thrill of the escape sequence is wonderful even if we eventually find out it's only in his mind.  There are a lot of joyous moments in the film that balance the brutality for me.
> 
> I would agree that most people don't enjoy his movies, but I don't think he focuses on making people think at the expense of making enjoyable films.



Ive only seen it twice , and that's about it .   Its not a film that pleasant  to watch and the humor males it even less so. Can you imagine what Terry Gilliam could done have  with George Orwell's  *1984 , *Aldous Huxley's * Brave New World , Yevgeny Zamyatin   We * Stanton Coblentz's  *In Caverns Below *or  Bernard Wolfe's novel *Limbo  *?


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 8, 2021)

asp3 said:


> I disagree.  He makes movies that you don't find enjoyable.  I enjoy Brazil and love the entire movie (It's #5 on my list of favorite movies) and enjoy watching it.  For me the thrill of the escape sequence is wonderful even if we eventually find out it's only in his mind.  There are a lot of joyous moments in the film that balance the brutality for me.
> 
> I would agree that most people don't enjoy his movies, but I don't think he focuses on making people think at the expense of making enjoyable films.




Apologies, I think I used the wrong words there. I think that Gilliam's films are wonderful and imaginative, but the themes that he raises (and quite often the downbeat endings) make them hard (at least for me) to enjoy. Gilliam challenges the viewer to be an active participant in his films, making them think and try to rationalise what they are watching, rather than to just sit back and enjoy the ride as you might in a Star Wars or Indiana Jones movie. 

Time Bandits is one of my most favourite movies of all time. It's the first I rented from the videostore, and I was mesmerised by the whole thing. As I got older, I appreciated different aspects of the movie, and enjoy perhaps for different reasons. Like many of his movies, the ending asks more questions than it answers, and I think that it could be viewed as both a happy and a sad ending depending on the perspective you view it.


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## JunkMonkey (Oct 9, 2021)

Moonbat said:


> I love some of Terry's films, *12 Monkeys* is a particularly good one, I loved *Time Bandits* as a kid and *Fear & Loathing* is brilliant, but I have to say that *Tideland* is one of the worst films I have ever seen, it stars Jeff Bridges but it's main star is a young girl. It is just odd and not very good. It ranks along *Innocence* (a 2004 French film) as one of the awful films that Sonia has made me watch, but didn't manage to get through herself.



Glad I'm not the only one.  I have a very high tolerance for arty films (and bad films for that matter) but I found *Tideland* unwatchable crap.  _Fear and Loathing_ was a great disappointment.  I loved the book as a kid and the film was trying too hard to be faithful to it. It was like watching an animated Classics Illustrated. Or an audiobook with pictures.  Too much voice-over. 
*[Brothers Grimm* until this thread I had forgotten he'd directed it.  I remember thinking 'meh'.  Hollywood pot boiler to prove he could stay under budget. 
*Zero Theorem* was *Brazil*... without whatever it was that made *Brazil* brilliant.

Not quite Gilliam but I can recommend *Lost in La Mancha* a documentary that followed Gilliam's first attempt  to get Don Quixote in the can.  A catalogue of disasters, hope, and wishful thinking that makes a fascinating watch.


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## JunkMonkey (Oct 9, 2021)

Toby Frost said:


> I wish Gilliam had filmed _Alice in Wonderland_ instead of Tim Burton. It would have looked much more interesting and we wouldn't have had to put up with Johnny Depp.



We might well have done.  Gilliam worked with Depp on the aborted Don Quixote film, Fear and Loathing, and The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus .


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## Stephen Palmer (Oct 15, 2021)

He's a true artist, with a fantastic sense of visual style. Whoever compared him with Kubrick is spot on; also Del Toro (thinking of Pan's Labyrinth and Shape of Water especially). One of my favourite directors.


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