# Public house signs



## Talysia (Mar 6, 2007)

Whilst reading an old and virtually falling apart book the other day, I stumbled across a fascinating list of public house signs and the meanings behind their origins.  Most of them seem to stem from folklore or social customs from history, but there are a few from heraldry and royalty.  I'm trying to find the meaning of a pub in my town - called The Hole in the Wall - but there are two definitions in my book.

Does anyone else know what it could mean?  Also does anyone have any other curious public house names/signs?  I find this kind of thing interesting.


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## Urien (Mar 6, 2007)

"The Slaughtered Lamb."

"Stay of t'moor lads, keep t'road."


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## Dave (Mar 7, 2007)

All I know is that the most popular pub name in England was the 'Kings Head' and the King in question is Richard III who everyone loved so much.

It may not be any more, because of the tendency to invent new off-the-wall names like 'The Puzzle' or the 'Frog and Lettuce' or 'Three Moons over the Water under the Weather'.

I also think it's wrong to change the meaning of pub signs. I saw a picture of Freddie Mercury once on a pub called 'The Queen's Head'. Somehow, that just seems wrong to me.

Public Houses were once exactly that; rooms within someone's house that were licensed to serve alcohol to the public. The landlord, wanting to prevent people trooping in through his whole house would make a different entrance to the house for the general public. I'm guessing that in some cases that might have simply been a new door in the middle of an existing wall, hence 'Hole in the Wall'.


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## Pyan (Mar 7, 2007)

Dave said:


> All I know is that the most popular pub name in England was the 'Kings Head' and the King in question is Richard III who everyone loved so much.



More usually the king in question would be *Charles II*, Dave, to show loyalty to the monarchy after the Restoration in 1660. There was a large increase in the number of pubs called *The Crown *at the same time, and for the same reason.


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## Talysia (Mar 7, 2007)

Dave said:


> Public Houses were once exactly that; rooms within someone's house that were licensed to serve alcohol to the public. The landlord, wanting to prevent people trooping in through his whole house would make a different entrance to the house for the general public. I'm guessing that in some cases that might have simply been a new door in the middle of an existing wall, hence 'Hole in the Wall'.


 

I hadn't thought of it that way. The entry I found in the book said, "Perhaps an allusion to the hole in the wall of a prison through which the inmates received donations, or a reference to the narrow alley or passage by which the tavern was approached." Given that the pub is in the middle of the High Street, not to mention being in a passage, the second one is likely, but since I hadn't thought of a new door in an existing wall - something that most likely happened, too - I'm still a bit stuck. Lots to think about, but thanks for the help.

I'm still looking for the strangest pub name/signs ever, though!


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## Dave (Mar 7, 2007)

pyanfaruk said:


> More usually the king in question would be *Charles II*, Dave, to show loyalty to the monarchy after the Restoration in 1660. There was a large increase in the number of pubs called *The Crown *at the same time, and for the same reason.


Actually, yes I think you are probably right, because their would have been very few pubs during the Commonwealth. Those miserable Puritans! That is why you get 'The Royal Oak' too. 

But their was a big increase in pubs after the Crusades too, all those thirsty soldiers coming home. The oldest pub in England is meant to be 'The Trip to Jerusalem' in Nottingham. 'The Saracen's Head' or 'Turk's Head' is a popular one too.





Talysia said:


> The entry I found in the book said, "Perhaps an allusion to the hole in the wall of a prison through which the inmates received donations, or a reference to the narrow alley or passage by which the tavern was approached."


I expect there are a number of reasons for the same name. That second one sounds equally as likely as my idea.

I'll have a think about unusual signs I've seen. I think most that seem odd at first are actually due to heraldry. Any to do with feathers, castles, elephants, dragons or lions of any colour, are probably a reference to a coat of arms. Many pubs were created by soldiers or sailors returning from long service in a war with accumulated back-pay. They would name the pub after their favourite general or admiral who they admired and hadn't got them killed. That's why you get pubs named with a nobles coat of arms, or a battle (Alma, Waterloo, Trafalgar) or so many for the Duke of Marlborough, the Marquis of Granby, the Duke of Wellington, Lord Nelson or the Marquis of Queensbury. The sporting reference is probably important there too. Any noble associated with Boxing or Horse Racing is going to be popular, or the 'Fox and Hounds'.

Try this website: Brewer, E. Cobham. Dictionary of Phrase & Fable. Public-house Signs.
It includes a list with some unusual ones:
'The Man Laden With Mischief'


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## Talysia (Mar 7, 2007)

Dave said:


> I'll have a think about unusual signs I've seen. I think most that seem odd at first are actually due to heraldry. Any to do with feathers, castles, elephants, dragons or lions of any colour, are probably a reference to a coat of arms. Many pubs were created by soldiers or sailors returning from long service in a war with accumulated back-pay. They would name the pub after their favourite general or admiral who they admired and hadn't got them killed. That's why you get pubs named with a nobles coat of arms, or a battle (Alma, Waterloo, Trafalgar) or so many for the Duke of Marlborough, the Marquis of Granby, the Duke of Wellington, Lord Nelson or the Marquis of Queensbury. The sporting reference is probably important there too. Any noble associated with Boxing or Horse Racing is going to be popular, or the 'Fox and Hounds'.
> 
> Try this website: Brewer, E. Cobham. Dictionary of Phrase & Fable. Public-house Signs.
> It includes a list with some unusual ones:
> 'The Man Laden With Mischief'


 

Funnily enough, that's the book I was reading!


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## Esioul (Apr 6, 2007)

Heh, it sounds interesting, but I have no idea why that name would be chosen. we have the 'Dun Cow' in relation to some legend I'm a bit hazy on but it involved monks decided where to bury St Cuthbert and a cow walking past.


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## bruno-1012 (Apr 6, 2007)

I always thought that the Red Lion or George and Dragon was the most popular.


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## jemcaesar (Jul 15, 2007)

Ah... good old Wikipedia: 


*Hole in the wall*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

 			 									Jump to: navigation, search
			 			A *hole in the wall* may be:

A greasy spoon, diner, automat or similarly inexpensive restaurant with little or no ambience
British slang for an automatic teller machine
*Greasy spoon* is a colloquial term used in Britain and North America for archetypal working class eateries. Pioneered In the UK, these are generally technically called cafés (in England often abbreviated to "caff" or referred to as cafes, with no accent); in America such establishments are generally known as diners. The name "greasy spoon" is used to imply a less than rigorous approach to hygiene and dishwashing, and appears to date from 1925.


I love learning about the origins of pub names. Here in Australia I think the most popular pub name is the Prince of Wales (if someone says they're going to the POW then no, they are not planning on becoming a prisoner of war). There's more about unusual pub names in Wikipedia.


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