# Who's next in line?



## lucifer_principle (Aug 26, 2005)

Whats the next human species on the evolution chart? what is he going to look like? If he had precognition abilities, thats the end of the stock market LOL


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## Rosemary (Aug 26, 2005)

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> Whats the next human species on the evolution chart? what is he going to look like? If he had precognition abilities, thats the end of the stock market LOL


Perhaps you had better cash in all your shares before that happens!


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 26, 2005)

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> Whats the next human species on the evolution chart? what is he going to look like?


...the designer of the "next human species" should enlarge the cranium—humanity needs all the brains it can get.


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## Foxbat (Aug 26, 2005)

There might not be a  'next'.  For all we know, we may have reached an evolutionary cul-de-sac. Maybe Douglas Adams was right about the mice


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 26, 2005)

Foxbat said:
			
		

> There might not be a  'next'.  For all we know, we may have reached an evolutionary cul-de-sac. Maybe Douglas Adams was right about the mice


...look what happened to Algernon and Charlie.


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## PERCON (Sep 10, 2005)

I hate to sound so pesimistic but I think humanity will be killed off before it evolves much further.

_PERCON_


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 10, 2005)

...not enough important people thought a 767—with fuel tanks full—should be designated a "weapon of mass destruction". 

America—with dreams of oil—has nightmares about warheads poking out of the sand.


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## Rosemary (Sep 10, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...not enough important people thought a 767—with fuel tanks full—should be designated a "weapon of mass destruction".
> 
> America—with dreams of oil—has nightmares about warheads poking out of the sand.


I think a lot of Australians are feeling the same way cyborg.  Still we Aussies are as tough as Americans - we gotta life, so we're going get on with it - to hell with the terrorists, just BE AWARE. 

Percons the one whose being pessimistic now!  Still, I don't think the end will come as soon as he predicts!


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 10, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Still we Aussies are as tough as Americans...


...all peoples get tough when they are fighting for their independence. On what day do Aussies celebrate "independence day"?


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## Rosemary (Sep 10, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...all peoples get tough when they are fighting for their independence. On what day do Aussies celebrate "independence day"?


 
January 26th is Australia Day

6th June is WA's Foundation Day

Unfortunately we still belong to the 'Commonwealth'.  However, that is becoming a rather tenuous link now and IMO for the better!


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## Neil040 (Sep 10, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Unfortunately we still belong to the 'Commonwealth'. However, that is becoming a rather tenuous link now and IMO for the better!


 
Speaking from the perspective of  half english and half irish thats a shame.. I can think of no better friends to us collectively than australians or kiwis!

History is a funny old thing but I never did feel so comfortable joining the EU.. trying to forge genuine lasting ties with people we had been waging war with for centuries.. while casting off ties with firm friends.. albeit once colonies and conquored nations..  I like europeans.. but I love australasians!  lol

As to the original question.. the obvious step is that we lose all our hair and get smarter.. I am already well on my way to one of those evolutionary leaps!


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## Rosemary (Sep 10, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> Speaking from the perspective of half english and half irish thats a shame.. I can think of no better friends to us collectively than australians or kiwis!
> 
> History is a funny old thing but I never did feel so comfortable joining the EU.. trying to forge genuine lasting ties with people we had been waging war with for centuries.. while casting off ties with firm friends.. albeit once colonies and conquored nations.. I like europeans.. but I love australasians! lol
> 
> As to the original question.. the obvious step is that we lose all our hair and get smarter.. I am already well on my way to one of those evolutionary leaps!


Hi there Neil
Oh there's no reason why we can't all be friends! I like friends   However, we in Australia are still having to follow laws made by the British Empire which should have been changed at least 100 years ago, to suit our needs. 
I'm sorry to hear that you have taken what you call the obvious step and start to loose your hair


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 10, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> ...I never did feel so comfortable joining the EU.. trying to forge genuine lasting ties with people we had been waging war with for centuries.. while casting off ties with firm friends.. albeit once colonies and conquored nations..


...the Commonwealth is all about the powers of politics and global economy. Friendship is something citizens have an easier time achieving than politicians do—no legislation needed.


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## Rosemary (Sep 10, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...the Commonwealth is all about the powers of politics and global economy. Friendship is something citizens have an easier time achieving than politicians do—no legislation needed.


*No legislation needed* - I like that cyborg  

I wonder how many other issues could be resolved through friendship and no legislation?


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## Neil040 (Sep 10, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Hi there Neil
> Oh there's no reason why we can't all be friends! I like friends  However, we in Australia are still having to follow laws made by the British Empire which should have been changed at least 100 years ago, to suit our needs.
> I'm sorry to hear that you have taken what you call the obvious step and start to loose your hair


 
Tell me about it!  lol  In Uk there actually still exists on the statute books a law which states that if you do not not regulary keep up your long bow practice you can be fined..  haha.. and the best is that if you do some awful thing or other (I forget what but its troo!) you can still get transported to Australia for LIFE!!!!  Jeez I know zillions of people who would JUMP at that crime if only...  lol

Meanwhile.... in sunny Ireland.. we have to live with a legal system that is EXACT to the letter based on english law.. blessed be independance!  even after all these years it dont make a diff.. count on it Rosie... I watch England make new stupid laws and I note to my friends.. 'give it two years... daft Bertie will think of it and pretend its his own..'   sigh...

Now... seriously... I really do know you meant to say that I am getting clearly smarter.. any loss of hair is a blatent slander.. a bit grey maybe..  thinning on the top.. where no-one looks anyway does not count I tell you!!


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## Rane Longfox (Sep 10, 2005)

Evolution is slowing down because the criteria for survival and prospering is no longer being the fittest, its about being the cleverest and the luckiest. This way, we create weak humans, and strong diseases.

(Yeah, ok, so thats an almost direct quote from a book. Bah)


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## Neil040 (Sep 10, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...the Commonwealth is all about the powers of politics and global economy. Friendship is something citizens have an easier time achieving than politicians do—no legislation needed.


 
Well yes.. who can argue with that?  Well said...

The only thing I would say about the commonwealth is that to me.. and I accept that you could perceive it differently... was that it was a unique organisation..  a loose collection of nations bound by one thing.. the collective remnants of the british empire.  

Pointless in some ways.. and as a republican myself I can well chuck the feckless elizabeth out of the equation... but what a unique thing it is on another level.. nothing compares.. no roman empire appreciation society exists to my knowledge!  That is no way to condone empire building and stealing other lands.. but as the fire of historical events ebb.. it seems nice to me that we can find common ground in common history...  an australian can correctly resent british domination of their country (putting to one side the issue of aborigini rights for the sake of this discussion) and I can also resent the british habit of transporting poor people over yonder for poaching a rabbit to feed their family...  the brits did not just persecute foreigners.. they fooked the crap out of their own folk too!

Anways.. I still agree that no-one could say better than 'Friendship is something citizens have an easier time achieving than politicians do—no legislation needed'


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## Rosemary (Sep 11, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> ... an australian can correctly resent british domination of their country (putting to one side the issue of aborigini rights for the sake of this discussion) and I can also resent the british habit of transporting poor people over yonder for poaching a rabbit to feed their family... the brits did not just persecute foreigners.. they fooked the crap out of their own folk too!
> Anways.. I still agree that no-one could say better than 'Friendship is something citizens have an easier time achieving than politicians do—no legislation needed'


 
Oh what a lovely thing to say !   

Trouble is they brought the rabbits out as well,  oh and the starlings, the foxes and the sparrows!  They are not friends with the local fauna or flora.  Another point of view, which will probably upset a few folk - The Iron Lady sent most of the unionists out here! 

Not sure about the british domination - at present it seems to be just more of a symbol, apart from the Justice System.


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## Neil040 (Sep 11, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Not sure about the british domination - at present it seems to be just more of a symbol, apart from the Justice System.


 
When all is said and done... its clearly all about one thing.. the commonwealth.. the one unifying thing..  (Canada excepted for some bizarre reason that is!)

And not brit domination but english...

You know what I mean of course.. Its cricket!!!


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## Neil040 (Sep 11, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Another point of view, which will probably upset a few folk - The Iron Lady sent most of the unionists out here!


 
Well they have to be sent somewhere!


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## Rosemary (Sep 11, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> When all is said and done... its clearly all about one thing.. the commonwealth.. the one unifying thing.. (Canada excepted for some bizarre reason that is!)
> 
> And not brit domination but english...
> 
> You know what I mean of course.. Its cricket!!!


The cricket series hasn't finished yet - anything could happen!

Why do you call the English - Brits?  The British tribes were mostly absorbed into* England*, the country of the Angles and Saxons.


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## Neil040 (Sep 11, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> The cricket series hasn't finished yet - anything could happen!
> 
> Why do you call the English - Brits? The British tribes were mostly absorbed into* England*, the country of the Angles and Saxons.


 
It sure will!  pretty good stuff so far I think.. shame that the match was called off for the day cos of bad light.. as Boycott said.. if games in england were called off because of gloomy light there would hardly be any cricket left to play in an english summer!  lol

As to the British tribes.. and the historians here can contradict me at will.. but my understanding is that the remnants of the brit tribes.. the celts.. were pushed from england into wales in particular.  Scotland retained its celtic origins also as did Ireland.. until the influx of scottish protestants that is!

The brits are collectively the whole bunch of us (excepting the southern irish of course who would take extreme unction to be so designated!  lol)

But as you know.. the scots and welsh can't play cricket for toffee so that is where the english distinction starts to matter... but to complicate things.. the Irish cricket team have managed to get themselves into next years world cup by jove!  So they are in danger of becoming honoury brits (I mean English I think but I am confusing myself here!) if they aint careful!


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## Rosemary (Sep 11, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> As to the British tribes.. and the historians here can contradict me at will.. but my understanding is that the remnants of the brit tribes.. the celts.. were pushed from england into wales in particular. Scotland retained its celtic origins also as did Ireland.. until the influx of scottish protestants that is!
> 
> The brits are collectively the whole bunch of us (excepting the southern irish of course who would take extreme unction to be so designated! lol)


You're right about the weather and the cricket.  Which is worse the rain at the cricket in England or the heat of Australia?
Scotland was actully inhabited the Picts and then by the Irish Delriada - so logically the 'scottish protestants' were really Irish  

I would have thought the people of Scotland wouldn't enjoy being called Brits either!  I know the whole country is collectively know as The United Kingdom - which seems rather strange, seeing as they are not all 'united'


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## Neil040 (Sep 11, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Scotland was actully inhabited the Picts and then by the Irish Delriada - so logically the 'scottish protestants' were really Irish
> 
> I would have thought the people of Scotland wouldn't enjoy being called Brits either! I know the whole country is collectively know as The United Kingdom - which seems rather strange, seeing as they are not all 'united'


 
Uhoh..  I AM dealing with a historian!  damn!

Ok.. so night flying without instruments as I am here...  is it not the case that Ireland was settled around about 4000 years ago by Iberians?  As in the first settlement and fortification remains on the Arann Islands.. On Inish More at Dun Aengus.. so basically the Irish are actually Spanish?     ehem

Meanwhile the Scots really dont care what you call them so long as you do it with a smile and a pint!


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## Rosemary (Sep 12, 2005)

Neil040 said:
			
		

> Uhoh.. I AM dealing with a historian! damn!
> 
> Ok.. so night flying without instruments as I am here... is it not the case that Ireland was settled around about 4000 years ago by Iberians? As in the first settlement and fortification remains on the Arann Islands.. On Inish More at Dun Aengus.. so basically the Irish are actually Spanish?  ehem
> 
> Meanwhile the Scots really dont care what you call them so long as you do it with a smile and a pint!


I certainly wouldn't say a historian! Just enjoy reading and doing research about it. I know that Ireland was invaded many times, the Fir Bolg for example! I thought the Tuatha Dan arrived before the Iberians - could be wrong though, especially as the Tuatha Dan are mythylogical!  Not at home so can't check my notes! I expect you are correct though. Who came after the Tuatha Dan? 
  Oh by the way - a lot of the British/Celtic tribes were basically forced to flee across the channel and settle in what is now known as Brittany.


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## Neil040 (Sep 12, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> I certainly wouldn't say a historian! Just enjoy reading and doing research about it. I know that Ireland was invaded many times, the Fir Bolg for example! I thought the Tuatha Dan arrived before the Iberians - could be wrong though, especially as the Tuatha Dan are mythylogical!  Not at home so can't check my notes! I expect you are correct though. Who came after the Tuatha Dan?
> Oh by the way - a lot of the British/Celtic tribes were basically forced to flee across the channel and settle in what is now known as Brittany.


 
I am woefully ignorant in truth Rosemary...  I do enjoy reading but have done little in research really.  I only know about the Iberians and the fort at Dun Aengus on the Arron Islands because I visited it many years ago and was fascinated by that unbelievable place..  to me it is one of the wonders of the world and if you ever come to the west of ireland do go there!  Inish More.. one of those bleak and treeless yet beautiful islands are just about the most westward land in europe.. on the atlantic side there is the fort.. a large stone constructed area built with its back to the sea... three concentric series of walls.. increasingly massive as you move towards the sea...  half circles and the outer area planted with thousands of stones to break any enemy approach..

To enter the last fastness you go through one tunnel in the walls that by then are perhaps twenty feet thick.. and the walls on each side end at the cliffside... where there is a drop of maybe 500 feet sheer to the atlantic below..  It is impressive beyond words..

As I understand it this was the first known settlement of those Iberians as they began their incursion into Ireland.. what amazes me to this day it what on earth they encountered that led them to put so much effort into the most dramatic defensive system on the edge of a cliff on the edge of europe.. defences that are still one of the most impressive remains in all europe!

I wish I knew..

What you say about the Tualtha Dan is fascinating.. I must learn more.. thank you


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## Neil040 (Sep 12, 2005)

I forgot to ask.. a silly question to an australian I guess.. but from your interest and knowledge of irish and celtic history I am thinking you have perhaps irish origins?

And finally before I retire.. woozy with the first ashes victory in 16 years!!!  hehe     I have to say that was the best cricket I ever saw a lifetime of unachieving english teams.. and the best spirit ever too.. you aussies are champions even when you lose!  Whatever politics and stupidity exists in this world the one thing I would always count on is a good aussie by my side.. fair play to you and whatever god exists may he bless the lot of you!


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 12, 2005)

caladanbrood said:
			
		

> Evolution is slowing down because the criteria for survival and prospering is no longer being the fittest...


...stop evolution—the human race is good enough.


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## Rosemary (Sep 13, 2005)

What you say about the Tualtha Dan is fascinating.. I must learn more.. thank you [/QUOTE]
In most librarys there is usually something on Mythology, Pre-historic, The Celts, Old British, Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Norse - the list goes on.  Irish Mythology is very interesting I must admit.  You can also find books on where all of the 'ancient forts - pre Roman - are to be found in the United Kingdom.
No Irish ancestors that I know of - perhaps a bit of Spanish eons ago!! I was English - now a true blue Aussie.  Well done to the English Cricket team!  I hope we will always be good loosers!


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## Rosemary (Sep 13, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...stop evolution—the human race is good enough.


Why do you say that cyborg?  Some of the human race definately needs a good shaking *at the very least*!

So have you come up with anymore marvellous ideas about communicating without language?


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 13, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> ...have you come up with any more marvellous ideas about communicating without language?


..."language" seems to include any communication that has anything to do with our five senses—including the sixth. Otherwise, I have some body language innovations.


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## littlemissattitude (Sep 14, 2005)

At least one school of thought has it that, in humans, physical evolution has been mostly replaced by cultural evolution. So, while there is some physical evolution going on (more and more people being born without wisdom teeth, for example), most of the change is cultural/psychological in nature. Although I seem to recall seeing a headline recently that someone has come to the conclusion that the brain is not nearly done evolving. Which, I suppose, is where things like precognitive abilities would come in (if that isn't something we've actually devolved away from).

I'm going to have to go searching to see if that brain evolution article really exists, or if it was a figment of my imagination. "Anthropology in the News" here I come, I guess.

Edit:  Found it.  It is an article from September 9, and was fairly widely covered.  This link is from the BBC:



> *University scientists say they have found strong proof that the human brain is still evolving.
> 
> 
> By comparing modern man with our ancestors of 37,000 years ago, the Chicago team discovered big changes in two genes linked to brain size.
> ...


*

You can read the whole article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4222460.stm

The only issue I take with the conclusions presented is that there is too big an effort, in my opinion, to argue that the discovery of these two variants is evidence for the biological roots culture.  But that's probably because I'm not a big fan of sociobiology.  I think I would argue that the increases in brain size (which I imagine would have been accompanied by an increase in neurons) would increase the capacity for more complex behavior but would not dictate what that behavior would be except perhaps in a very, very general way.  Still, an interesting article, especially since it ties one of the variants to the beginnings of art and music, and the other to the beginnings of agriculture, settled life, and writing.*


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## Neil040 (Sep 14, 2005)

littlemissattitude said:
			
		

> At least one school of thought has it that, in humans, physical evolution has been mostly replaced by cultural evolution. So, while there is some physical evolution going on (more and more people being born without wisdom teeth, for example), most of the change is cultural/psychological in nature. Although I seem to recall seeing a headline recently that someone has come to the conclusion that the brain is not nearly done evolving. Which, I suppose, is where things like precognitive abilities would come in (if that isn't something we've actually devolved away from).


 
I agree with the cultural/social evolution idea as it seems clearly evident that that has overcome physical evolution, that can be a lengthy process...  but the evolution of the brain could be an altogether different game..  human's tool making abilities allowed all else to follow possibly.. meaning that we were able to gradually dominate as a species in the wild which gave the social side a chance to develop..

What fascinates me is not the just the brain size.. but the fact that so much of the brain is not even used.. now that could be happenstance.. or it could be an critical evolutionary element that could lead anywhere I suppose.. such as suggested above in maybe future precog abilities.. (also assuming that is not in the past.. but nothing to really suggest that such a useful abilty would actually have been abandoned in an evolutionary process)

So much un-used brain space could definitely be space waiting to be evolved into.. which is exciting and frightening all at once!  Obviously by its nature evolution follows its own path.. perhaps the path for humans would be similar for any tool using, cognitive species found anywhere throughout the universe.  Which could mean that the critical point comes at the period in evolution when an intelligent species either gets past the ability to destroy its own environment and even planet... or doesn't..  If it does, then maybe the rest would follow.. physical evolution ceases to matter as the ability to control the physical world renders that irrelevant..

For example, the inevitable direction a real understanding of genetics would not be superpersons.. but simple things.. like being able to regrow an arm if one were lost.. we grew it in the first place after all.. so the dna coding is all there within us..  understanding of the brain can lead to using another location in it to replace a damaged area.. as has actually happened naturally in rare case after accidents.. in other words the blind could see and the deaf could hear..

If we choose to dwell on the optimistic.. then that is exciting to say the least.. the downside personally to me is that it would be around the corner and over the next hill for most of us alive today..


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## chrispenycate (Nov 23, 2005)

Natural evolution is stopped, because there are no natural pressures selecting for characteristics. However, we're aproaching the point where tailored evolution becomes conceivable. Starting, of course, with the detection and elimination of certain genetic disorders (after all, you'd have to be a religious fanatic to consider that a bad thing) followed by programmes to detect- potential for some disease, tendency towards mental instability, probable physical or mental subnormality- unnatural selection. much faster and more directed than the random wild stuff- look how fast we can develope a new breed of dog. 
The rich, wishing to give their offspring a head start, will have them equipped with gene sequences shown to be common in individuals gifted in certain ways- some dictator will have his laboratories turn out super soldiers, tireless, conscienceless killers who will ultimatelly. as the Frankenstein legend requires, turn around and kill him.

And humans will be modified to fit into other, less comfortable corners of the universe, to tolerate lack of gravity or high accelleration, breath, eat and drink less pure substances, be able to hibernate or go weeks without sleep, and sub species homo will arise- but I don't think I'll see any of this.


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## Quokka (Apr 10, 2006)

But has natural evolution really stopped? And where is the line between environmental, physical and cultural factors?

There's no doubt that environmental factors have changed but there is still a significant tendancy, cross-cultural though not definative, for females to prefer taller partners (and vice versa) . Will the genetic factors for weight gain/ obesity have an impact on future generations, particularly considering the impact of body fat/ obesity on reproduction? 

I agree that tailored evolution is very conceivable but it is still impossible to predict when that research will develop into practical technologies (which has begun for specific examples) and then more importantly for technology to hit the critical mass of affecting overall genetic traits.

Again continuing evolution of the brain is hard to deny.... our environment is changing faster and more dramaticaly than ever, just because it's us causing the changes I'd be hesitant to say that it's all one way traffic.

Just my 2 cents.


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