# Warrior Nun



## nixie (Jul 5, 2020)

Anyone else watching this?


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## Overread (Jul 5, 2020)

Nope but I've not got Netflix - looks very neat though!


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 5, 2020)

Not yet. It's on my TBW pile.


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## Anthoney (Jul 6, 2020)

I watched the whole thing Thursday.  I mostly enjoyed it.  It's no deep or heady show but it's fun and has a few decent twists. a few good quotes.  "I'm just a weird, formerly dead orphan." 

I like the main character.  Some combination of the actress and the character she's playing reminded me of Jennifer Lawrence.


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## Boneman (Jul 6, 2020)

Starting it tonight.


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## ctg (Jul 8, 2020)

nixie said:


> Anyone else watching this?



Yes darling. I just found out about it, in my Netflix. It is real dark urban fantasy and it really appeals to me. But then again we already knew that I'm into these sort of series. Even my first writing reflect this reality. I'm just fifteen minutes into the first episode and I already want to write about it.

To those who are unsure about this series, it deals with Heaven and Hell, with Angels and Demons, with Deed and the Living. The main cast is mostly females, with some male supporters. And so far what I've seen it's not totally feminist. 

I don't personally see this as coming-of-age story, even if the cast is mostly young adults. There are strong Catholic vibes as you'd except from the cast portraying warrior nuns. We know that they only exist in the realms of Dark Fantasy. Our own history doesn't have them. And even though you could argue that Saint Joan of Arc was one, I don't see it that way.

What intrigues me is that this deals with necromorphosis and spirits, just as I did in my trilogy.


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## Boneman (Jul 8, 2020)

Like the plot, not keen on the MC, yet. Four episodes in, and the writers haven't really given her a chance to shine...


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 8, 2020)

Have seen 4 episodes now and like it so far. A bit too soon to judge, but engaging enough to keep watching.


Boneman said:


> Like the plot, not keen on the MC, yet. Four episodes in, and the writers haven't really given her a chance to shine...


She isn't doing so bad, I think.
The problem here is, I think, that the writers decided to have her express her thoughts via voice-over. This diminish the need to express emotions by actual acting.


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## nixie (Jul 8, 2020)

I'm not keen on Ava, thought Mary would have been a better Halo bearer then I seen Beatrice in action.


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## Dave (Jul 8, 2020)

I'm watching this too based upon these comments here. I thought the first episode wouldn't have made it as a pilot. I guess it didn't need to as it was already given a series. The second episode was better and I'm now hooked. Ava is very much in the reluctant hero mould.


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## ctg (Jul 9, 2020)

Boneman said:


> Like the plot, not keen on the MC, yet. Four episodes in, and the writers haven't really given her a chance to shine...



Well, I was wrong in my initial assessment. There's more YA than I like. Also no dead. Still, I'm going to finish the season.


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## Dave (Jul 10, 2020)

I'm not sure it was aimed at YA (although the definition of that term is one of those arguments) but yes, it was aimed at a younger audience than me, with the beautiful bodies, music and pop culture. There was also the romance angle, but odd that JC just completely disappeared. I hadn't thought about the lack of people dying. Considering the sheer amount of knife and sword stabbings, together with people actually being taken to Hell, you would expect at least one death other than Shannon. 

Simon Barry was also behind _Continuum_, and I see some similarities, and a reason I watched, though I liked that much better. I'm not a big superhero fan, even superhero nuns!

I have a problem with the Jillian Salvius plot. First, the corporate head who is doing it all for their child is becoming a trope. _DEVS _or (was it Deus) had the same plot with a dead daughter. What does her company actually make (other than grand press statements)? How are the shareholders going to get their dividends if there is no actual product, but millions being spent on all this hi-tech? I'd be interested to see her business plan.

Secondly, the Stargate... I mean the gate, will obviously open up a portal to Hell, when it finally works. Everyone can see that. She is an intelligent woman, how does she not see that? I say Stargate as a joke, but that very early scene when they uncover the shield at a dig in ancient ruins could have been lifted straight out of Stargate.

Then, when you also add that many of the characters are cardboard cutouts, taken straight off the shelf of some superhero series character library, and I do think the show was a bit derivative.

Anyway, I did watch it to the end and what an ending! I didn't expect them not to find the bones of Adriel under the Vatican. There was quite a turnaround in that episode, and there is a huge cliffhanger left. I must say that I never saw the Father Vincent thing coming. Maybe if they had made this series six episodes long and cut out all the teenage angst then it would have been ten times better.


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## nixie (Jul 10, 2020)

Dave said:


> I'm not sure it was aimed at YA (although the definition of that term is one of those arguments) but yes, it was aimed at a younger audience than me, with the beautiful bodies, music and pop culture. There was also the romance angle, but odd that JC just completely disappeared. I hadn't thought about the lack of people dying. Considering the sheer amount of knife and sword stabbings, together with people actually being taken to Hell, you would expect at least one death other than Shannon.
> 
> Simon Barry was also behind _Continuum_, and I see some similarities, and a reason I watched, though I liked that much better. I'm not a big superhero fan, even superhero nuns!
> 
> ...


There was a lot irrelevant stuff that leaving out would have made the show better. It was watchable, not brilliant.
That cliffhanger was a shock.
Father Vincent took me by surprise. Lillith I think isn't the possessed demon I initially thought, my theory is the law enforcement on the other side gave her a reprieve to return to our dimension to retrieve the halo and Adriel.
Think it would have been better to cut out the tech company and have it around opposing factions within the church.


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 10, 2020)

I think the teenage stuff should be excused, partly. It would not have seemed very likely if Ava, aged 18, had gone from one straight jacket (lying paralyzed in an orphanage run by nuns) to the next straight jacket (a strictly run order of warrior nuns) without resistance or rebellion. The part with JC was overdone and best cut short, which the writers realized themselves anyway, at the end of episode 5.
It is unclear to me what Lilith's role is, if it is Lilith and not something else with Lilith's shape. But I got the impression that she was not after the halo but there to prevent Ava from getting into Adriel's tomb.
When Adriel showed Ava how Areala had received the halo, we first saw Adriel being chased by a tarask. My impression is that Adriel stole the halo, which would imply that he is not from the same place the tarask and returned Lilith are. But than again, can you trust what Adriel told and/or showed Ava?
The gate and everything around it did not make much sense to me. And I wouldn't for the world let my child walk through whatever gate without knowing where it led to. (but I don't have kids, terminally ill or otherwise, so what do I know.)
The last episode and the cliffhanger did redeem any faults that preceded it.


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## ctg (Jul 10, 2020)

Elckerlyc said:


> It is unclear to me what Lilith's role is, if it is Lilith and not something else with Lilith's shape.



Antagonist. Not the main one, but from within the order. Somebody had to challenge Ava because she would not have slotted in the hierarchy. But the problem with Lilith is that she is supposed to be posh, but she ain't. Instead she's a wooden character with a singular mindset. Yet, all the girls manages to surprise me... in a good way. When I think that I have it figure, they do something unexpected and they aren't afraid of using harsh language. 

In fact, some of the dialogue is forced, but a lot of it flows nicely and isn't just exposition. And while some people are put off by Ava's inner thoughts, I thought they are well done and fit the picture very nicely. Frankly it is a refreshing change.


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 10, 2020)

ctg said:


> Antagonist. Not the main one, but from within the order. Somebody had to challenge Ava because she would not have slotted in the hierarchy. But the problem with Lilith is that she is supposed to be posh, but she ain't. Instead she's a wooden character with a singular mindset.


Yes, I agree. But that's the Lilith _before_ she got killed. What about the returned Lilith?


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## Dave (Jul 10, 2020)

Elckerlyc said:


> What about the returned Lilith?


She was definitely meant to have changed. Being friendly. Messy hair. Darker makeup. But then visiting Hell would do that to you.


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 10, 2020)

They do makeup in Hell?  

Anyway, I'm not convinced yet that it was Hell.


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## nixie (Jul 10, 2020)

I see it as another dimension, some of the creatures from that realm look to us as demons. My theory is the demons are the law enforcers. When they come through to earth to retrieve the halo they're attacked. Lillith was likely seen as an opportunity to retrieve it without drawing to much attention. Mortally injured, they've patched her up and sent her back with instructions to get the halo. She has been given subconscious commands, she did say Adriel was nothing but a thief. Earth's atmosphere likely gives the dimension dwellers super powers.


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## ctg (Jul 11, 2020)

Elckerlyc said:


> What about the returned Lilith?



I have not seen it yet, and I look forward to it. 



nixie said:


> I see it as another dimension, some of the creatures from that realm look to us as demons. My theory is the demons are the law enforcers



I like this idea. It is a good one, but it also opens up the multiverse. Not just celestial realms. Do we want to go there?


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 11, 2020)

ctg said:


> I have not seen it yet, and I look forward to it.


Than I will quiet for now (We should have 



Spoiler: Spoiler



used spoiler alerts





ctg said:


> I like this idea. It is a good one, but it also opens up the multiverse. Not just celestial realms. Do we want to go there?


I suspect the creator of the comics this TV-series is based on would not. Which isn't saying much, considering the multitude of mutilations going around in visual media.


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## Dave (Jul 11, 2020)

ctg said:


> I like this idea. It is a good one, but it also opens up the multiverse. Not just celestial realms. Do we want to go there?


Maybe you haven't reached that part yet either, but Jillian Salvius explains that she expects to send her son to another dimension where he will not die. She doesn't mean Heaven; she doesn't seem to be at all religious. So, the idea is already within the story that our names for these realms are simply human constructs.

However, I'm completely with @Elckerlyc here:


Elckerlyc said:


> I wouldn't for the world let my child walk through whatever gate without knowing where it led to. (but I don't have kids, terminally ill or otherwise, so what do I know.)


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 11, 2020)

Dave said:


> ... but Jillian Salvius explains that she expects to send her son to another dimension where he will not die.


Yes, but on what is this expectation based? If this comes from the same source as the design of the gate, it's duplicitous.


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## ctg (Jul 11, 2020)

Dave said:


> Maybe you haven't reached that part yet either, but Jillian Salvius explains that she expects to send her son to another dimension where he will not die.



I get that, it was obvious from her first speech that she cave with the Cardinal present at the meeting. Obviously she had a reason, but it's madness to think it'll work.


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## ctg (Jul 11, 2020)

I just saw Lilith's death. Spectacular.


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## ctg (Jul 12, 2020)

I really enjoyed the scenes after the death. The walk to the mountains is so similar to Jesus walk on desert. And I thought there's more in this series than the YA angle. So much more. And in places it's kind of surprisingly deep.


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## HareBrain (Jul 12, 2020)

I watched the first 3 episodes last night, after seeing it recommended here. Good entertainment, though I wouldn't necessarily like to put all elements of the plot under rigorous examination. Looking forward to the rest of it.

The lead is a very expressive actor. Reminds me a bit of a young Caroline Proust (Spiral/Engrenages).


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## HareBrain (Jul 13, 2020)

HareBrain said:


> I wouldn't necessarily like to put all elements of the plot under rigorous examination



Definitely not those in ep4. Eek! Another one like that and I'm probably out.



Spoiler



1. I assumed they'd taken the shield from the lab after Eva had dispelled the Tarask with it. WHY ON EARTH DIDN'T THEY?

2. I assumed that as well as turning up to impress the squatters and telling them to contact her if Eva returned, Dr Salvius (?) would at least keep the house under surveillance. But it turned out, nope! Nothing. Of course it would have been much more clever to bug the place and not reveal her interest at all.

3. Eva decides she shouldn't abandon her friend Diego and arrives, several days after last seeing him, right the minute before he's due to be killed? THAT WAS LUCKY. Why is he about to be murdered anyway? Eva was only killed because she was about to leave the place -- he's still got years.

4. Why aren't the OCS panicking that Eva is out there without her armour, which F Vincent told us was the only thing that stopped the Tarask tracking her down? They don't even mention the fact.


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## Dave (Jul 13, 2020)

I agree, except that you may need to watch until the end for a complete understanding some of the character motivations. At least, among the members of the clergy, they are not as straightforward as they appear to be. On the other hand, there are probably a lot more plot holes if I went back and reviewed the whole thing in detail. I doubt much would stand scrutiny. I think that in this show, you are just supposed to enjoy the ride.


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## The Big Peat (Jul 13, 2020)

Watching it and it's acceptably mediocre but maybe too mediocre to stick with. Don't like how it can't decide it it's serious or fun; kinda splits the difference is neither.


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## ctg (Jul 13, 2020)

Dave said:


> At least, among the members of the clergy, they are not as straightforward as they appear to be.



They never are and if you compare real life people to these fictionalised character, it's the same thing. The clerky isn't carved from same wood. There are a lot different variables. Out of three, I really don't like Mother Superior, but I can understand two other motivations. Especially Vincent.

It is also kind of funny how it is brought forward through the people in the mountains that the church is just a building to worship God. It is the people that makes the thing real. Not the building. Also it is real eye opening when you see the victims of Hell's past incursions and how willing they are to help sisters with whatever they want.

In the real life there are quite few nuns that I've seen in the Shepherd Bush or at North Kensington and people tend to avoid them. They don't want to approach them and they give room, without interaction almost as if they're somehow contagious.

From personal perspective I understand Ava's caring nun and why she was showing bad temper, because the job is not easy. And it's very hard to show love and caring inside a strict sect day in, day out. Although what happened to her, needed to be done. There's no doubt about it.


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## nixie (Jul 13, 2020)

As a not very good Catholic  I've known a few nuns over the years and the majority are beautiful kind people. Best to keep the discussion to the show and leave the religion out.


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## ctg (Jul 13, 2020)

nixie said:


> As a not very good Catholic I've known a few nuns over the years and the majority are beautiful kind people. Best to keep the discussion to the show and leave the religion out.



I do agree they are beautiful, but I've also observed how people behave around them. But I get the hint and leave all of it out. Apologies.


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## Dave (Jul 13, 2020)

ctg said:


> if you compare real life people to these fictionalised character


You have misunderstood me. I wasn't trying to do that. I just don't want to *spoil. *You need to watch until the end then you will understand better.


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## ctg (Jul 14, 2020)

What a twist of turn of events. Man, the ending is epic, and I cannot think any other series than Constantine that had similar kind of ending. Will this get a new series? We'll see and I really hope so, but I wouldn't bet on it, because of the fate of Constantine. 



Spoiler



So "a devil" lied to the crusaders and all the saw was what they wanted to see. It was pure faith, but if Adrial was among the angels that were cast down from Heaven for supporting Mr Morningstar, then why kept the halo? Did he kill for it?


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