# Women vs Men in fiction



## Mouse (Apr 29, 2012)

I didn't really know what to title this thread, or where to put it. But this is something I was chatting about with allmywires.

I was saying that I don't really like female characters in books or tv shows/films, or at least, I don't like them more than the males.

Put more simply - whenever I think of my favourite characters, they're usually male. 

I can only think of Dollhouse, where the character I like the best is female. And that's Adele DeWitt. (I also love November, Whisky and Echo... although I prefer Victor and Alpha to those three).

Besides Dollhouse, there's not one thing where I'll favour a female character over a male. And that's really sad. 

This isn't to say there aren't great female characters. There are. But there will usually always be a better character who's male. 

I thought of His Dark Materials, where the main character's female. Lyra's a great character but is she my favourite? Nope. That'd be Balthamos. Or even Pan. 

ASoIaF? Some good female characters but... favourites are Renly and Bronn.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Gotta be Spike.

So, thoughts? Do you have any books/tv shows/films where your _favourite_ character is a woman? That is, you like her more than all the males.

I'd be especially interested in men's opinions!


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 29, 2012)

I've got a bit freaked out recently, as a serial writer of male pov everytime I write my main female pov I use I, all the time, and end up in first person.... I don't get keyed up about sex, but female characters I dig include: the Narnia books where Lucy, the white witch are my fav characters. (Susan doess take a lot of forgiving, though.) Lyra in HDM is much more interesting that the boy, and Mrs. Coulter is great. Haven't read it but Katniss in the hunger games seems interesting. 
On a non sff front, I love Scout in the kill a mocking bird, and Scarlett in Gone with the wind. And Blanche in a hot tin roof.

PS Allmywires sets me off in all sorts of interesting directions, too; I've been humming Oasis for two days.


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## Mouse (Apr 29, 2012)

I've never read Narnia (I know!), but in the films I'm all for Caspian (ok, ok, he's played by the lovely Ben Barnes but...), I don't like Lucy or Susan. 

Mrs Coulter is good, better than Asriel... but I still prefer Balthamos.


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## hopewrites (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm in the same boat as you Mouse, though I'm more of a fantasy than a Sci-Fi girl myself. Even in Jane Austen my fav's are of the male persuasion, and she writes wonderful females. (I never can decide if I like Darcy or Bingly more, doesnt matter to me who ends up with who... but gahh!! would I rather have someone disdainfully shy? or adorably easy? normally I just go for adorably shy.) Her males on the other hand have depth and human failings and such a poinient way of expressing (or not expressing) themselves as to win me over completely though nothing is told from their point of views.

I think Melanie Rawn is the only author I have read where I have female fav's amongst the males.


Edit: Scout was a girl? how in all the times i've read that book have i missed that vital fact?


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## Mouse (Apr 29, 2012)

hopewrites said:


> I'm in the same boat as you Mouse, though I'm more of a fantasy than a Sci-Fi girl myself. Even in Jane Austen my fav's are of the male persuasion, and she writes wonderful females. (I never can decide if I like Darcy or Bingly more, doesnt matter to me who ends up with who... but gahh!! would I rather have someone disdainfully shy? or adorably easy? normally I just go for adorably shy.) Her males on the other hand have depth and human failings and such a poinient way of expressing (or not expressing) themselves as to win me over completely though nothing is told from their point of views.



That's exactly it. Men always seem to have more depth. Makes me more determined to write a female character to rival any male. 




springs1971 said:


> PS Allmywires sets me off in all sorts of interesting directions, too; I've been humming Oasis for two days.




Heh heh! She's got me into Queer as Folk. My writing time has been  dramatically reduced. Mind, I returned the favour and introduced  Hollyoaks.


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## allmywires (Apr 29, 2012)

Mouse said:


> I thought of His Dark Materials, where the main character's female. Lyra's a great character but is she my favourite? Nope. That'd be Balthamos. Or even Pan.



I love Balthy! So tragic 



springs1971 said:


> PS Allmywires sets me off in all sorts of interesting directions, too; I've been humming Oasis for two days.





Mouse said:


> Heh heh! She's got me into Queer as Folk. My writing time has been  dramatically reduced. Mind, I returned the favour and introduced  Hollyoaks.



Guys, too kind, too kind.  OMG STENDEN!

Actually contributing to the discussion, I've really racked my brains and have come up with a small shortlist:

1)  Pelagia from Captain Corelli's Mandolin (the book, not the DREADFUL film).

2) Iris from The Blind Assassin - incidentally the two aforementioned books are two of my favourites of all time. 

3)  Eva from We Need To Talk About Kevin - frank and sometimes uncomfortable opinions on motherhood and parenting in general. Though I've always had a bit of a creepy soft spot for Kev.

4) Eowyn from LotR - not sure this counts as she's not exactly prominent, and is one of three 'main' female leads in the whole trilogy. But I'll forever love her for the whole slaying-the-head-nazgul-almost-entirely-out-of-the-blue. Also, most of the men in LotR (and elves and wizards and dwarves and hobbits...) are so _meh_. (Don't shoot me!)

Honorable mention to Katniss + Johanna from The Hunger Games trilogy (far too YA to be real favourites, but with more than a hint of badassary) Debbie from QaF, Hermione, Prof McGonagall and Mrs Weasley in HP (but Lord Voldy will always be my favourite bad guy) and Grace from Waking the Dead.

I could probably think of a ton more now, but I think that's enough to be going with.


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## hopewrites (Apr 29, 2012)

Hermione reminds me of my mom


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## allmywires (Apr 29, 2012)

springs1971 said:


> And Blanche in a hot tin roof.



Maggie in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof or Blanche from Streetcar?  Blanche is a bit of a wet blanket imo but Maggie is a good shout. (I do prefer Brick to her, though, damn his tortured soul.)


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 29, 2012)

gahhh, typing too fast; Maggie. I like brick, too, though. 

Is this the problem; we don't have enough tortured soul females? Do we need a byronic heroine?


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## allmywires (Apr 29, 2012)

springs1971 said:


> Is this the problem; we don't have enough tortured soul females? Do we need a byronic heroine?



Well.. *clears throat*

I like the idea of a tortured heroine, and internal issues are what make characters so compelling. But for a female audience, and here I'm hugely generalising, isn't a complex, tortured male exactly what we want? He's soft inside with a rough outer shell that the right gal (or guy  ) can slip right under and change everything. I suppose that's an extension of a One Great Love - this tortured guy will ONLY love this one girl, because she's the only one that really understands him.

Whereas - again with the generalisations - men don't want their women to be a tough nut waiting to be cracked by the right guy. They want her to be able to handle herself, whether that manifest itself in fighting skills or a quick intellect, but not to the point where she's completely inaccessible. She'll have at least one Typical Female trait - her weakness will be love, or her biological clock will be ticking, or Daddy Issues etc etc. Without any of these traditional heroine traits she's no longer desirable. 

/pop psychology


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## clovis-man (Apr 30, 2012)

Read some of the Company novels by Kage Baker or almost any SF book by Nancy Kress for some strong female characters. C.J. Cherryh has some pretty feisty ones in her large output as well, both human and alien.

And how could you not like Ripley in (at least) the first two *Alien* films?


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## Abernovo (Apr 30, 2012)

Okay, Mouse, this man's opinion.

I'm not the most macho bloke, so I don't know how typical this is, but I actually like a lot of female characters, even identify more with some of them than I do with some of the male characters. That said, the characters I like the most are those that aren't one or the other gender stereotype.

So, in _Firefly_, for example, I quite like Kaylee and Zoe, although I have to admit I think Wash is brilliant for the realisation of his character.

In classic SF, it's sometimes a bit difficult to find really well written female characters, although Asimov's Susan Calvin stood out to me as a kid. I also found Teela Brown from Niven's _Ringworld_ much more interesting than the main character of Louis Wu, which was why I found it annoying that she was underutilised in the novel (for my taste).

Recently, I've been reading Kat Richardson's _Greywalker_ novels. Whilst I'm not as fond of the last couple of books, the central character is a strong female PI, possibly in the VI Warshawski mould, but with a supernatural twist. I don't think a good female character has to be tortured (although who among us doesn't like torturing characters in our own writing?  ), I do want them to be layered and reasonably complex.

As an aside, I'll add that Queer as Folk remains one of my most enjoyed shows in recent years. I wish I'd bought the DVDs back in Britain, but too late now. Oh, for some strange reason, it took me ages to realise that Littlefinger in GoT was played by Adrian Gillen from QaF. D'oh!


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## Mouse (Apr 30, 2012)

But this is it, I'm not saying there aren't any good female characters, and that's not what I'm getting at with this thread - we have a few threads for strong female characters and I'm usually right there reeling off a list... My point is, whenever I think of a favourite character, nine times out of ten, it'll be a man.

Aber, Zoe in Firefly is a brilliant character, but are you saying you like her more than Wash? (Kaylee irks me a little, though she gets kudos for 'shiny.')

I'll give you the Teela Brown one (even though I've no clue who that is!) as you're saying you prefer her to the male character.  

(I'm watching the American QaF - is matey in the UK version?)

AMW - get out of my head!! 

springs- tortured is good, but I'd be happy with funny too. How many funny women do we get? Not enough.


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## Abernovo (Apr 30, 2012)

Zoe and Wash are probably about equal for me, but then I see them as a double act in many ways. For me, it's not so much about favourite characters as most interesting, which is probably close to the same thing.

Margarethe in Heinlein's _Job_ is much more nuanced and likeable than the main character of Alex, for example. Even though she's intended as a foil to Alex, she's a much more interesting character in the book. I sometimes feel the same way about Rachael in _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_, in that her story almost raises more questions for me than Deckard's does, despite not being the central character.

Matey is in the UK version of QaF - late 90s, Manchester-based. I didn't realise there was a US version.


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## Mouse (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah, favourite/interesting sort of the same thing.


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## The Procrastinator (May 1, 2012)

No Ladies Detective Agency - Precious Ramotswe. Great character.

Better Off Ted - Veronica. The legend that is Veronica. Veronica is my hero.

Downton Abbey - Lady Mary Crawley. Took me a while to warm to her but now she's my favourite character. Plus Anna the maid of course, Anna is a bona fide saint.


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## Mouse (May 1, 2012)

Not seen/read any of those, TP. 

I've been trying to think of some more, but can't. My second favourite X-Men character's a woman. Unfortunately, somebody invented Gambit and he beats her by a country mile.


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## HoopyFrood (May 1, 2012)

A few years back, the first time I met someone who'd go on to be one of my closest friends, her residing memory of our first meeting is how I seemed to hate most female characters. It did seem that way to me too, until I gave it a bit more thought much later on and discovered it was just jealousy, really. The female characters I seemed to 'dislike' the most came from my favourite specific things from varying media -- quite simply I wanted to be those characters and was irked by those that were them!

Anyway, I think in general women characters suffer, especially in mainstream media. Especially in Hollywood. We're only just getting a Pixar film with a female lead! I've been following the Avengers news and reviews and how everyone talks of the big bad male leads, then Black Widow as the 'eye-candy' or similar. There are talks of many spin-offs from the film and me, the discourse busting machine that I am, would love to see her in her own film -- but the cynical (realist?) part of me feels it'll be a flop. Especially as it's a comic-based film with a female lead (don't get me started on gender and sex in the comic book world!) Even here we get people starting threads on writing characters of the opposite sex and until there's more focus on writing a character who's a woman, rather than concentrating so much on female character, I think portrayals will continue to suffer. As already said, men in media tend to have more depth, be the more interesting ones, because they're approached as characters, not types. 

I've managed to get over my weirdness now, anyway. I have plenty of female characters who are awesome. 

Batwoman, independent, unrelenting, stubborn, fearless lesbian hero. Barbara Gordon (particularly as Oracle), all-seeing, all-knowing information broker, who overcame disability, to whom even Batman comes for knowledge. Katana, who's just crazy as and will slice off people's heads if need be. Poison Ivy, seductive, cunning, and a wrathful force of nature.  

Robin from How I Met Your Mother is my favourite of the lot, for being subversive and awesome. 

Marge Gunderson from Fargo (Coen Brothers film). Heavily pregnant cop who takes no nonsense and will get the job done -- but doesn't let it consume her life. One of my all time favourite characters. She's brilliantly handled.

There's a Thai martial arts film who has Yanin "Jeeja" Vismistananda as the main star as a young autistic girl who learns martial arts. She fights in the same style as Tony Jaa, and the film is directed by the guy who did Ong-Bak. Apparently the script was developed with her in mind. She's tiny and kicks major ass. It's amazing. 

Typically my mind has gone blank now. I'll have a think and report more.


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## Mouse (May 1, 2012)

Good post, Hoops!

Can't say I'm jealous of any female characters though. Most of them (not all) just aren't interesting enough.

I do like Marge from Fargo - though I think I probably preferred Steve Buscemi's character. Although, whenever Steve Buscemi's in anything I'll always prefer his character. Damn it.

I do have another one though! San from Princess Mononoke is far better than Ashitaka.


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## HoopyFrood (May 1, 2012)

I was going to add that it's a marvel that I do like Marge so much, considering that Steve usually wins out, whatever he's in. But Marge. Dear Margie. Her mannerisms and way of talking and everything about her is just brilliant.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 1, 2012)

Scarlett O'hara, wayyy better than Rhett. Sassy, sexy, bad. 
Fern in Charlotte's Web. 
Daisy in Gatsby; the centre of the book. 
Pelagia in Captain Corelli's, at least as likeable as Antonio. (if not quite as naughty.)
(struggling with fantasy and sff ones; are we going wrong as a genre?)


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## HoopyFrood (May 1, 2012)

Oh, oh, Grandma Sophie from Howl's Moving Castle! Not even normal Sophie, but Grandma Sophie. She's hilarious and grumpy and won't take any crap from mopey wizards who start melting just because they accidentally dyed their hair.


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## Mouse (May 1, 2012)

I'm trying to think of Garth Nix's Abhorsen books, because it's got strong female characters. I think (long time since I read them now!) I'd say my favourite character is the Disreputable Dog... but I can't remember the sex!

edit: Sophie good... but Howl's better!


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## HoopyFrood (May 1, 2012)

Oh, web comics. I read Order of the Stick and Haley is my favourite of the main gang. Well, I really like Vaarsuvius, whose sex is unclear and I'm perfectly happy to never find out. Ain't important.

And in Girlswithslingshots, Hazel is my favourite messed-up, trying to make it in the adult world, sex-happy, talking to her cactus, slightly alcoholic character. This is a great comic for women characters in general, and for different (in fact a brilliantly wide range) sexualities and identities.

Howl's starts off well, but then he throws his hissy fit and generally gets sulky. Whereas I just _love_ Sophie and the Witch huffing up the place steps, Sophie bravely carrying Heen all the way.


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## Mouse (May 1, 2012)

HoopyFrood said:


> And in Girlswithslingshots, Hazel is my favourite messed-up, trying to make it in the adult world, sex-happy, talking to her cactus, slightly alcoholic character. This is a great comic for women characters in general, and for different (in fact a brilliantly wide range) sexualities and identities.



Sounds good!



> Howl's starts off well, but then he throws his hissy fit and generally gets sulky. Whereas I just _love_ Sophie and the Witch huffing up the place steps, Sophie bravely carrying Heen all the way.


But that's what I love about Howl! I like sulky, huffy men. (In fiction, in real life I'll tell them to get over it!)

I almost added Sen/Chihiro in Spirited Away, but I absolutely adore Boh. 

Oh, found out the Disreputable Dog's female, so that's a win!


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## HoopyFrood (May 1, 2012)

I like slightly nerdy, not really sure of what's going on, but deep down will do what's right men. Like Richard in Neverwhere. Or Cal in Weaveworld. Or Rory in Doctor Who.

Oh! Donna Noble. Perhaps the only time the companion has overshadowed the Doctor for me (though if paired with Matt Smith, he'd win). But I did so love Donna.


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## Mouse (May 1, 2012)

Oh I love Richard and his trolls!


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## Abernovo (May 1, 2012)

HoopyFrood, I agree with you that too often there are male characters and female support, which is something I never understood, as some of their stories seemed potentially more interesting to me.

I always thought Barbara Gordon was great - much more interesting than staid, stuck-up Bruce Wayne (I only ever knew her as Batgirl). At the same time, I thought Sue Storm/Richards was underutilised in the Fantastic Four comics. She could go invisible, project shields and all Marvel seemed to think she was good for was being rescued. Pah! That's not a character, that's a mannequin. Maybe that's changed these days, I don't know.

_Howl's Moving Castle_. Must read that again. Brilliant book.

Just reading _The Night Watch_ by Sergei Lukyanenko. Anton is the MC, but Olga, the stuffed owl who can transform into a powerful female Night Watch operative, is the most fascinating, partly for her back story (of how she ended up changed from a mage into an owl), partly for her personality.

EDIT: Donna Noble was great. Not really a fan of Catherine Tate otherwise, but she was brilliant in Dr Who.


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## clovis-man (May 1, 2012)

The Procrastinator said:


> No Ladies Detective Agency - Precious Ramotswe. Great character.


 
It's actually *The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency*, a series of enjoyable books by Alexander McCall Smith. Made into a series of episodes by HBO and featuring singer Jill Scott as detective Mma Ramotswe (Precious). Also notable is Anika Noni Rose as Mma Makutse, the agency secretary (who is not one to be trifled with). The characters are intriguing and the stories captivating. So sit back and watch (or read) these stories with a nice cup of bush (rooibos) tea.


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## The Procrastinator (May 1, 2012)

oopsie do, that's what i get for late night posting. My profound apologies to the Ladies of the Detective Agency. I can just see the look on Mma Makutsi's face. Shame, shame, shame. But I do love Mma Ramotswe - and I love Mr. J.L.B. Matekoni for loving her. Watch it if you can Mouse, plenty of depth of character there.


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## Mouse (May 2, 2012)

I caught a bit of it when it was on TV but wasn't quite my cup of tea.


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## morteledraco (May 8, 2012)

Are you a straight women? It might just be that you pay more attention to guys or at least more attention to the way guy charcters are awesome than women.


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## allmywires (May 8, 2012)

Morteledraco, I don't think that's really true - as a straight woman I'm always on the look out for awesome women in fiction. As much as it's fun to adore the guys, you want a heroine who you can want to _be_, or be friends with, rather than a hero you can swoon over (not all the time, at least!).


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## digs (May 9, 2012)

I think there may actually be something to mort's post in that the way people respond to and perceive characters may differ on their own background and experiences. For example, I always respond well to pretty butt-kicking girls with big weapons (usually with a "_She's ****ing awesome!_")

My favourite chars of the original list you posted, Mouse:

Dollhouse - agree with DeWitt, followed by Sierra

His Dark Materials - Lyra, Serafina Pekkala, the tiny dragonfly lady

ASoIaF - Arya, Asha, the Mormont women

Buffy - Anya, Drusilla


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## Hex (May 9, 2012)

It's not that we identify with the women, and so find the men more exciting (because they do)?

Lemme see: almost all of Robin McKinley's female characters (but especially Harry in 'The Blue Sword'), Maree in 'Deep Secret', Roddy in 'The Merlin Conspiracy' (those are Diana Wynne Jones)... I'm sure there are more (but I need Thought).


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## Mouse (May 9, 2012)

digs - I love pretty butt-kicking women with big weapons too and my response is usually 'she's freaking awesome!' I loved the woman (Black Widow, was it?) in Avengers.

But being kick ass doesn't make someone interesting. 

As for Buffy, I'd forgotten Anya! Yes, I do love Anya. She's probably my second fave. ...After Spike.


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## Jeffbert (Jun 10, 2012)

HoopyFrood said:


> Oh, oh, Grandma Sophie from Howl's Moving Castle! Not even normal Sophie, but Grandma Sophie. She's hilarious and grumpy and won't take any crap from mopey wizards who start melting just because they accidentally dyed their hair.


I had been watching a ton of anime & reading a few Japanese comics over the last few years, & found that there is a tendency to make female characters as skilled in fighting as the males. Though, some are androids (or gynoids, as the terms are gender specific), & even those who do not fight, I find I like well. The men, are often depicted as hapless, & comic relief types. But even in the high school comedies, such as SCHOOL RUMBLE, the females are the central characters, & very much likable. The main character is named Tenma, which I believe is her family name, & there are these two very different boys both trying to win her love. One is an egghead-type while the other is a motorcycle riding juvenile delinquent-type. both try to be noticed by her, but to no avail.  

I cannot say the same for any novels I recall reading though, as most are nearly 100 years old. They do have women in them, & some are particularly likable, but they are usually the damsel in distress types. I guess maybe I seem odd in making this post, or, it just seems so.


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## Parson (Jun 11, 2012)

Interesting thread.... Could it be that we find the characters of the opposite sex more interesting? Two of my most interesting characters are 

Honor Harrington (Leading figure in David Weber's Honor Harrington series) and Ayala (sp) Clan of the Cave Bear. I identify with each of them much more than any male in those stories.

Perhaps an insight into who I am is that among cartoon characters I identify most strongly with Charlie Brown.


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## Mouse (Jun 11, 2012)

I've just read this, which made me laugh: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/08/pathetic-female-film-characters


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## Mangara (Jun 12, 2012)

Well in the mistborn series Vin is pretty much untouchable as the main character. Sanderson starts off with her weak, mild, shy, quiet and abused. Over the two novels I've read so far she has grown into an woman who is strong, powerful, but also human. Sanderson seems to have a knack of making them all feel human and Vin is the pick of the bunch.


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## Welsh Andy (Jun 13, 2012)

Got to say I'm the complete opposite. I get tired really quickly with male characters in sci-fi and fantasy. One of my all time favourite characters in sci-fi has to be Luciente from Marge Piercy's Woman at the Edge of Time. Probably closely followed by Ripley(of course) and Offred in The Handmaid's Tale.

Plus Femshep all the way


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## Gordian Knot (Jun 16, 2012)

Books where I like the female characters best.

Auel. Clan of the Cave Bear. Ayla is by far the most interesting character in the book.

Cherryh. Hunter of Worlds. Chimele is the central character from which everyone else revolves.

McCaffrey. Dragonriders or Pern. Lessa is far more interesting than the guys.

I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones I thought of right off.


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## C Of K (Jun 17, 2012)

Cordelia Naismith from_ Shards of Honor_ in the _Vorkosigan Saga_ by Lois McMaster Bujold. Cordelia is not extremely beautiful, nor is she the toughest woman in fiction. She is strong willed, resourceful, funny, and very brave. I read several books in the _Vorkosigan Saga_, but her book was my introduction to it, for which I am eternally greatful because it's a wonderful read.

I love Arya Stark more than any of her brothers, and most other characters in _ASOIAF_. There is one character that I definitely like better than her. Stannis Baratheon, but he happens to be in my top 5 favorite characters of all time. No shame in coming in second to Stannis. Valar Morghulis

Star Trek DS9 has Kira Nerys. Now, she is extremely beautiful, and is one of the toughest female characters I know, but I don't hold that against her. She's tied with Odo for my favorite character in that show.


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## Mouse (Jun 17, 2012)

I always liked Quark the best in DS9!


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## Gordian Knot (Jun 18, 2012)

I'll take Jadzia over Kira any day. I have to agree with Mouse though, Quark is a much more interesting character than either of the girls. As is Odo. As is Garak. The rest of the male cast is completely forgettable.

As Q so aptly put it referring to O'brien, "Aren't you one of the little people."


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## C Of K (Jun 19, 2012)

Dax always struck me as the one character they didn't really know how to handle. She found ways to get into every storyline from character to character, but offered so little for being involved in so much. She was intimately acquainted with Ferengi, Klingons, and humans. It wasn't strange to see her hanging out with Quark, Kira, Bashiere, Warf, Ben, and most of the regular cast. This is great, but few, if any, important steps were taken by her in behalf of the Trill people and their unique gift of multiple lifetimes of experience to play a larger role in resolving the problems facing the Federation. For someone who had over 300 years of experience, and was seemingly once a great negotiator, I expected her to play a larger role. It's great that she's so acquainted with other races and many peoples, but not much was made of it. I never saw her as much more than the science officer on the station, who was Ben's nosy confidant. Even Bashier and O'Brien played a larger role in deciding the Federation's Fate. O'Brien worked with Federation intelligence against the Orion Syndicate and the Dominion, and Bashier helped bring down section 31. I can't really place the importance of the Dax character on an interstellar scale.

I like Kira more because she started out as a rough revolutionary, forced into taking on an important role that would help decide the fate of her people, and the Alpha Quadrant as a whole. She hated Cardassians, but grew into a person who would respect and care for several Cardassians over the course of the series. That's a great leap for someone who once tried to assassinate her own mother for being a Cardassian collaborator. Unlike Dax, Kira was a more solitary character, but I thought she had a larger effect on the story as a whole. She was mired in controversy. Her religious views often put her at odds with the Kai, and even the emissary. She was a character who would stand by her convictions to the point of death, but was not so stubborn that she wasn't open to change.

I admire a lot about the Kira character. I think Odo was as interesting, for very different reasons, mainly because I'm not use to characters who have so much to learn about the world around them. There was so much to discover about him, while he was discovering about everything else. If I had to pick an absolute favorite though, I'd probably go with Kira.


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## Fairytale Jane (Jul 2, 2012)

I suppose male characters are easier to work with as opposed to females. One can always figure out what a man wants, but a woman? Good luck with that!


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## Anathem (Jul 3, 2012)

There's some good female characters out there:

Ripley in *Alien*
Black Mamba and Cottonmouth in *Kill Bill*
Clarice Starling in *The Silence of the Lambs*
Scarlett O'Hara in *Gone With the Wind*
*Anne of Green Gables*


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## Galacticdefender (Jul 16, 2012)

Don't forget Princess Leia from Star Wars!

But Ripley has to be one of my favorite female movie characters. Aliens 1-2 were great, but the third one sucked and Resurrection was okay. I wish Ripley was in Prometheus somehow, as a child or something.


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## Jeffbert (Jul 16, 2012)

Or princess Yuki, from HIDDEN FORTRESS; as Leia is certainly modeled on her.


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## Galacticdefender (Jul 16, 2012)

Or Naussica from Naussica and the Valley of the Wind. To this day, other than Spirited Away, those are the only Animes/Mangas I have ever really liked.


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## Jeffbert (Jul 16, 2012)

What about SAPPHIRE of *Ribon no Kishi* (Princess Knight)? The poor girl was forced to pretend she was a boy. As far as that goes, So was Ryunosuke of YURUSEI YATSURA (who was the model for Ranma). Oh how she dreamed of wearing the girls' sailor style school uniform, but her papa insisted she was a boy. 

Poor Lum (of YURUSEI YATSURA), she fell in love with the most lecherous boy in the universe!


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## Vertigo (Jul 16, 2012)

Hmm, I don't _think_ I have a general preference for male or female characters. But some female lead characters that I do love more than any males in the same books:

Weber's Honor Harrington from the HH books, or Alicia DeVries from In Fury Born
Justina Robson's Lila Black from the Quantum Gravity books is a serious kick ass, weapon wielding agent with some very real insecurities.
Peter Hamilton's Paula Myo is probably my favourite character from his Commonwealth (and Void) books.
Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion is an excellent lead in her three Paksenarrion books. Also Heris Serrano in the Serrano Legacy books.
Or how about Death's granddaughter Susan (Discworld obviously).


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## rune (Jul 16, 2012)

I tend to like strong male characters more than female.  Not sure why, but whenever I watch something or read something I tend to find the best male character to gel with and take me through the plot


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## clovis-man (Jul 16, 2012)

Had to go back through the earlier posts to convince myself that nobody had mentioned C.J.Cherryh's Morgaine. There are four novels about her and she can definitely hold her own and then some where male protagonists (and antagonists) are concerned.


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## Mouse (Jul 17, 2012)

Seems like men seem to like female characters more than women do then.


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## clovis-man (Jul 17, 2012)

Mouse said:


> Seems like men seem to like female characters more than women do then.


 
Or one might make the observation that female authors can create better female characters than male authors. Perhaps vice versa as well??


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## Gordian Knot (Jul 25, 2012)

clovis-man said:


> Had to go back through the earlier posts to convince myself that nobody had mentioned C.J.Cherryh's Morgaine. There are four novels about her and she can definitely hold her own and then some where male protagonists (and antagonists) are concerned.



I did. Sorta. I named the book and the character, but got her name wrong! My bad.


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## psib0rg (Jul 28, 2012)

You need to read some of Robert Heinlein's novels. He does have a male bias in some of his characters but his women characters are Strong. He also wrote a novel "I Will Fear No Evil" which is about a man who's brain is transplanted into a female body with all the problems that follow plus a few twists here and there. 
It's  a unique novel transversing the male author writing to female characters perspective!





Mouse said:


> I didn't really know what to title this thread, or where to put it. But this is something I was chatting about with allmywires.
> 
> I was saying that I don't really like female characters in books or tv shows/films, or at least, I don't like them more than the males.
> 
> ...


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## planetocean (Aug 2, 2012)

For me I think it depends on the type of story it is.


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## Colum Paget (Aug 5, 2012)

Mouse said:


> Seems like men seem to like female characters more than women do then.



I'll add a data-point to that, I'm male and I prefer a really well-written female character, but I do think they're rare. I tend to like villainesses most of all though (Servelan! OMG) and I think that's because they're gleefully enjoying being who they are. If you think of Blakes 7 Avon, Villa and Servelan were the three characters who clearly enjoyed being themselves, and the actors enjoyed playing them. Not many female protagonists seem to have this kind of confidence and inner joy, they're often too burdened down with issues. That said 'carrying a heavy burden' characters can really work as well, obviously Ripley, and Sarah Connor in Sarah Connor Chronicles.


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## chongjasmine (Sep 11, 2012)

I am neutral in my love of female characters.
I have about as much female characters I love as male characters.
So, I am rather neutral, I think.


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## Colbey Frost (Sep 11, 2012)

When I wrote my first book there wasn't even one female character in it. When I started another book, the only mention of a female character was that of a dead one. And it is simply because I don't understand them in real life so how can I write about them? Or for them?

Now I have come to the point where they do play a part, but I keep things simple and try to think about the characters as people instead of male or female (when introducing bit part players) I wouldn't have my mc as a woman... too complicated.

I did however plan and start to write a novel based on my two daughters, but that was so much fun because I had all the hands on experience I needed when it came to their conversations and manners. When my wife read it she couldnt stop laughing.


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## Clansman (Sep 13, 2012)

Elaira from Janny Wurts' *Wars of Light and Shadow*. Best female character ever. Strong, resourceful, tender, fiery, occasional moments of weakness, beautiful, smart.

If I weren't already married to the best woman in the world...

Mara of the Acoma in Feist's/Wurts'* Empire* series is also a fine example of a favourite female character.

I'd also throw in Paksenarion, of* the Deed of Paksenarion* fame.


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## ginny (Dec 23, 2012)

I think that Heinlein did give us some good strong females especially in his later year but those all tended to be a bit shakily amoral most of the time. 
I think that Anne McCaffary gave us a lot of good female characters with a bit more depth.
I like Honor Harrington At least in the earlier books.
There is no doubt though that women writers have a better potential for giving the strong women depth because they have a better foundation to build from.
Still there are a lot of strong female characters in much of today's Science Fiction.

That said it probably is more likely that a man will pick up one of those books than a woman.


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## Victoria Silverwolf (Dec 23, 2012)

I have a special fondness for Doctor Susan Calvin. First of all, it was somewhat unusual to have a highly skilled female professional in science fiction of that time. Secondly, I like that fact that she isn't beautiful; too many gorgeous spacegirls in fiction from that era! In particular, I like the story "Liar!" for the way in which it shows us that even the extemely intelligent Doctor Calvin can fool herself because of her need for love.

I also like the character of Scirocco "Rocky" Jones in John Varley's Gaea series. She's like a more sophisticated, emotionally complex version of Ripley.

An outstanding character is Alyx in stories by Joanna Russ.


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