# Maps



## Harpo (Dec 21, 2018)

A thread for maps in history, and history in maps.


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## Scookey (Dec 21, 2018)

I love data like this. Find it amazing how many modern fascists claim to be pure or of a country of purity, when the reality is the entire human population has spiralled around the globe since the first bipeds walked the Rift Valley in Africa, some 2 million years ago - from memory (not that I was there or anything, no matter how old my kids call me )


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## Extollager (Dec 22, 2018)

Has anyone here read Rachel Hewitt's *Map of a Nation: A Biography of the Ordnance Survey*?


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## Extollager (Dec 25, 2018)

Harpo, would you prefer that a separate thread were started for broader discussions of the enjoyment of maps?

I'm relished topographic maps for years, but I realize this isn't the same thing as focusing on maps in history and history in maps.

I have been in a great place, the Map Library at the University of Illinois.  (That was over 30 years ago & things might have changed.)

Here's a review of Hewitt's book mentioned above.

Map of a Nation by Rachel Hewitt – review


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## sknox (Dec 27, 2018)

For historical maps, few things can beat the Perry-Castañeda collection at the University of Texas.
Perry-Castañeda Library Map Collection - UT Library Online


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## Foxbat (Dec 27, 2018)

I love maps. Must a  cartogranerd


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## sknox (Dec 27, 2018)

I'm pretty sure "must love maps" is one of the requirements of membership here.


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## Extollager (Dec 29, 2018)

Watch this space for a map-related purchase within the next few weeks.


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## Graymalkin (Jan 7, 2019)

sknox said:


> For historical maps, few things can beat the Perry-Castañeda collection at the University of Texas.
> Perry-Castañeda Library Map Collection - UT Library Online


Fantastic resource. Great find. Cheers @sknox .
This page links to other map libraries. wow...goodbye.
Historical Map Web Sites - Perry-Castañeda Map Collection - UT Library Online


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## Extollager (Jan 7, 2019)

Street Maps of Victorian London, 1863 by Edward Stanford

I've just opened this.  This set of four detailed maps should be a good companion to my recent acquisition of Peter Cunningham's *Hand-Book to London* (1850).  I expect to use the maps as a reader of Dickens, Anthony Trollope, Arthur Machen, and other authors.   Much of Machen's London writing is post-Victorian, admittedly.


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## AlexH (Jan 29, 2020)

A rare medieval map of London - ianVisits
					

A rare example of an exceptionally early map of late medieval London has been uncovered by a London antique maps dealer.Read more ›



					www.ianvisits.co.uk


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## M. Robert Gibson (Feb 3, 2020)

I've just been told about this site




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						ARCHI UK | British Archaeological Sites Data Maps and GPS Locations | Elizabethan and Victorian Old Maps | LiDAR | Magnet Fishing Places | Aerial Photographs |  			Worldwide Archaeological, Historic and Cultural Sites and Sites of Natural Wonder | Ar
					

British Archaeological Sites Data with Detailed Old Victorian Maps, LiDAR and lists of archaeological sites in Britain and Metal Detecting and Treasure Hunting Finds, Old Maps, LIDAR and aerial photographs in the UK, England, Scotland and Wales. Great for metal detecting sites and archaeological...




					archiuk.com
				



It's a bit slow at times, so be patient.

On this page




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						Old Maps, Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish Old Maps | British Old Maps | British Archaeological Sites Data | Stonehenge | Archaeology | Metal Detecting Finds | Treasure Trove | Ancient History | Archaeological Treasures of the UK | Map | ARCHI UK |
					

Old Maps of counties in the UK, England, Scotland and Wales. Great for metal detecting sites and archaeological sites and archaeological digs. So, if you're looking for Bronze Age, Celtic Iron Age, Roman, Saxon or Medieval sites, then the archiUK database is for you



					www.archiuk.com
				



If you scroll down you can search for places.  One interesting feature is using the slider you can fade in a modern map for comparison.


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## -K2- (Feb 3, 2020)

I'll not post them (unless asked, to not clutter the thread), yet as I researched the old American West for my novel 'Half-Breed,' and Colonial America for my novella 'Mule,' I ran down hundreds of maps. In addition, at one time I researched WWII air combat in New Guinea, and I also have or have found (links) to countless order of battle maps, emplacement design, and base maps and photos.

If anyone is seeking any of that, just let me know and I'll try to save you some time. Below is Mexico~1846:





K2


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## .matthew. (Feb 4, 2020)

I'm a big fan of book clearance stores, must have at least 5 map based tomes from those places


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## mosaix (Feb 4, 2020)

In Bridgnorth library there’s a hand-drawn map of the town and surrounding area dated 1858 and my house is on it!



M. Robert Gibson said:


> I've just been told about this site
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’ve also found it on a map on the archiuk website link, provided by Robert, dated 1888 - 1913.


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## M. Robert Gibson (Feb 4, 2020)

My house doesn't exist on those 1888-1913 maps.  In fact, neither does the whole area.  Just some farms.


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## Elckerlyc (Feb 4, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> My house doesn't exist on those 1888-1913 maps.  In fact, neither does the whole area.  Just some farms.


Phaw! My house doesn't exist on maps before 1970. Nor did the_ land_ on which it's build. It was a large body water, 4 meters deep. 

But, to be honest, it think it is real cool to find your house on old maps.


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## AlexH (Feb 14, 2020)

A map showing how "scone" is most-commonly pronounced across the UK and Ireland:









						How Do You Pronounce “Scone?” – Map of the UK and Ireland
					

Map created by reddit user bezzleford How do you pronounce the word scone? If you live in Scotland you almost certainly pronounce it in a way that rhymes with "gone", whereas if you live in Ireland you're far more likely to pronounce it so it rhymes with "cone." And in England and Wales, well...




					brilliantmaps.com


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## M. Robert Gibson (Feb 14, 2020)

AlexH said:


> A map showing how "scone" is most-commonly pronounced across the UK and Ireland:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obviously it has to rhyme with 'gone', otherwise that classic joke wouldn't work...

What's the fastest cake in the world?


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## AlexH (Feb 14, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> Obviously it has to rhyme with 'gone', otherwise that classic joke wouldn't work...
> 
> What's the fastest cake in the world?


I don't get it.


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## AlexH (May 19, 2020)

Someone is mapping all the trees in London: TreeTalk

If you want to know what tree it is, hover over the location! Click for more info. Unfortunately, the trees where my story I'm working on is set aren't mapped. I think I identified the right trees from photos. But I also think I didn't. I called the trees on Constitution Hill lime trees, when I think they may be London plane (a species I didn't know of until the map).


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## -K2- (Jun 14, 2020)

Check out this page for some historical maps overlayed (all in high resolution):





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						Google Maps Rumsey Historical Maps
					

The David Rumsey Collection includes 18th and 19th century historical North and South American atlases, globes, school geographies, maritime charts, and separate maps including wall, pocket, and manuscript.



					rumsey.geogarage.com
				




E.g.: 1790 Scotland:





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						Scotland 1790 - David Rumsey Historical Map Collection
					





					rumsey.geogarage.com
				




K2


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## AlexH (Aug 25, 2020)

European countries by forest cover:

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		https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/ig7y5u

I haven't verified the above stats, but at 2%, Iceland is higher than I expected, unless a lot of trees have grown since I visited 15 years ago. The UK feels shamefully low. I wonder how much of that 12% is in Scotland?


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## Harpo (Dec 3, 2021)




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## Extollager (Dec 3, 2021)

Is it true that the Ordnance Survey has stopped making paper maps -- it's all digital now?


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## Harpo (Dec 3, 2021)

Extollager said:


> Is it true that the Ordnance Survey has stopped making paper maps -- it's all digital now?


Surely not - ramblers lost in bad weather with no internet signal might find their way to safety with a paper map.


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## Extollager (Dec 3, 2021)

Right, Harpo, but check this....









						The end of the road for Ordnance Survey?
					

Ordnance Survey paper maps are under threat from digital devices. Rachel Hewitt celebrates an 'icon of England' beloved by generations of hikers, poets and artists




					www.theguardian.com


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## AlexH (Dec 3, 2021)

Extollager said:


> Right, Harpo, but check this....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That article is from seven years ago, and sales of paper OS maps increased in recent years. There are also competitors like Harvey Maps, so the market must be there.

I visited Cornwall last year and rather than buy a paper map for everywhere I was going, I bought paper maps for the locations I needed them most and bought a digital subscription via the ViewRanger app that covered the UK. Downloading maps was very fiddly and time-consuming, and then when it came to using the maps, there were so many issues, it's a good job I didn't need to rely on them. I was looking forward to having the whole of the UK's OS mapping available, but I cancelled my subscription to ViewRanger immediately.

I got a shock in Bulgaria when walking up a mountain in snow, and now I know most maps for sale outside the UK are nowhere near as detailed as those available in the UK - we're so lucky here! In Bulgaria, what looked quite a straightforward route was actually very winding, and of course the snow made routes more difficult to follow.

This is maybe a quarter of my maps - some of the best money I've ever spent!


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## Harpo (Dec 3, 2021)

You can see my house on one of those Lewis maps


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## AllanR (Dec 3, 2021)

here's two map sites I like








						Old Maps Online
					

The easy-to-use getaway to historical maps in libraries around the world.



					www.oldmapsonline.org
				







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						World Historical Maps
					





					edmaps.com


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## Fiberglass Cyborg (Dec 10, 2021)

I remember a glimpse of an old atlas my mother had when she was young, which was already several decades out of date when she got it. In addition to the general humongousness of the British, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires, I was struck by the maps detailing the Silk Roads across Asia and the main trans-Saharan caravan routes.



AlexH said:


> ...
> I got a shock in Bulgaria when walking up a mountain in snow, and now I know most maps for sale outside the UK are nowhere near as detailed as those available in the UK - we're so lucky here! In Bulgaria, what looked quite a straightforward route was actually very winding, and of course the snow made routes more difficult to follow.
> ...



The French survey maps I've seen are impressively detailed, on a par with Ordnance Survey. Which makes sense- my understanding is that there was a literal cartographic arms race between Britain and France, each driven by fear of invasion by the other. At the other end of the scale, I have a map of Mumbai where the streets included are more up-to-date than the coastline of the reclaimed land. Several neighbourhoods are depicted as lying in Thane Creek or the Arabian Sea.


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## sknox (Dec 11, 2021)

>The French survey maps I've seen are impressively detailed
This goes back at least to Napoleon, who sent out teams all across France to draw up detailed maps for military purposes. There's a nice anecdote told by Eugen Weber (in _Peasants into Frenchmen_) about how one team was on a rise outside a village, drawing their map. They were set upon by the villagers, who were convinced that those strangers on the hill could only be casting some sort of evil spell what with their books and scrolls and strange instruments.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Dec 11, 2021)

sknox said:


> >The French survey maps I've seen are impressively detailed
> This goes back at least to Napoleon, who sent out teams all across France to draw up detailed maps for military purposes. There's a nice anecdote told by Eugen Weber (in _Peasants into Frenchmen_) about how one team was on a rise outside a village, drawing their map. They were set upon by the villagers, who were convinced that those strangers on the hill could only be casting some sort of evil spell what with their books and scrolls and strange instruments.


Saw an old advert for the Irish Ordnance Survey that read something like 'applicants must be able to endure harsh lodgings and be prepared to wrestle with several rude individuals' ...must've gone with the territory (scuse the pun) back in the day!


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## sknox (Dec 14, 2021)

I think it did. I worked one summer for the Utah State Historical Society. We were mapping historical buildings or, rather, candidates for historical status. As part of that, we student workers were each given a camera. I bicycled around downtown Salt Lake City, the periphery of same, where there were still homes. I had more than one person come out and demand what the hell was I doing. Most said oh, but a couple shooed me off. Sort of an invasion of privacy, I guess. Or generalized suspicion of outsiders. So the story about the French map makers rings true.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Dec 15, 2021)

A friend of mine was surveying a bit of road recently when someone came out of one of the houses next to it. A well spoken middle aged fella who explained that surveying was a waste of time because it is based on a false assumption of the Earth being a sphere. He went off, came back with a laptop, and insisted on playing several videos that proved the Earth was flat -takes all sorts


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## sknox (Dec 19, 2021)

AnRoinnUltra said:


> proved the Earth was flat -takes all sorts



It doesn't take all kinds to make a world, we just _have_ all kinds....

One of my favorite aphorisms.


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## Harpo (Dec 29, 2021)




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## Foxbat (Jan 6, 2022)

A recent letter in a local newspaper from an old boss of mine (retired for many years now) reminded me that when he retired, he had been involved in restoring a very unusual map. It’s a 50 by 40 metre map of Scotland in stone. Here’s a site with all the details.








						The Great Polish Map of Scotland at Barony Castle
					

The Great Polish Map of Scotland  The Great Polish Map of Scotland is a large (50 m x 40 m) three-dimensional, outdoor concrete scale model of Scotland. It is also known as the Mapa Scotland (derived from Polish mapa Szkocji) or the Barony Map. The brainchild of Polish war veteran Jan Tomasik,




					www.baronycastle.com


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## Harpo (Jan 6, 2022)

Foxbat said:


> A recent letter in a local newspaper from an old boss of mine (retired for many years now) reminded me that when he retired, he had been involved in restoring a very unusual map. It’s a 50 by 40 metre map of Scotland in stone. Here’s a site with all the details.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, it looks amazing. My house is literally under the entrance ramp.
Edit: ok not *literally* but you know what I mean.


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## Ursa major (Jan 6, 2022)

Foxbat said:


> It’s a 50 by 40 metre map of Scotland


By the looks of it, they should have either used a larger site, or reduced the scale, as they seem to have missed one or two of the islands to the west and, in particular, the north.


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## Foxbat (Jan 6, 2022)

From what I understand, it was done in the hotel grounds owned by the polish designer. I have friends in the Orkneys that would be much aggrieved at their exclusion. No Fair Isle or Shetland either. Still a fine piece of work.

I can only assume they were restricted by space..and perhaps even planning permission...would such a thing be needed for this?


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## Ursa major (Jan 6, 2022)

Foxbat said:


> From what I understand, it was done in the hotel grounds owned by the polish designer.


A polish designer? Was he French...?


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## sknox (Jan 7, 2022)

Remember, polish comes from the city ....  

Thanks for that image. It's truly memorable.


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## Harpo (May 12, 2022)




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## Dave (May 12, 2022)

I expected the Vatican City to be higher, but I see it is only fourth place.

As far as old maps go, and being able to access them for free, the Library of Scotland has one of the best archives here: National Library of Scotland - Map Images
It doesn't just cover Scotland, but Ordnance Survey maps for the whole of the UK, and international maps. You can compare old Ordnance Survey maps to present day Satellite imagery too. There are a lot of old town maps too. It is a really good resource for local history studies.


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## Astro Pen (May 12, 2022)

You are going to love this 
*Side by Side maps*
Pull up a range of old and current maps and move around them, scrolling and zooming in parallel!
Invaluable, as well as for looking at your locality, for tracing disused railways and such by scrolling century old maps alongside todays
Enjoy, as they say.
Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland


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## Ursa major (May 12, 2022)

Harpo said:


> View attachment 89438



They seem to have chosen "as close to a circle in general form as possible" as the criterion to meet, but as a circle is the 2D shape whose perimeter is the shortest for a given area, the roundest country would be the one with the smallest Length of boundary length to area ratio, immediately ruling out, for example, countries that have coastlines of which Slartibartfast might approve (such as Sierra Leone).


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## Fiberglass Cyborg (May 15, 2022)

I love obselete world maps. One of my favourites is this 16th century Dutch map, with its humungous imaginary continent taking up most of the southern hemisphere.





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						Typus Orbis Terrarum (Image of the globe of the world) | Royal Museums Greenwich
					






					www.rmg.co.uk


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## Harpo (Oct 27, 2022)

A Warsaw Pact map showing how to pronounce English place names.


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## sknox (Oct 27, 2022)

Fiberglass Cyborg said:


> I love obselete world maps. One of my favourites is this 16th century Dutch map, with its humungous imaginary continent taking up most of the southern hemisphere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These old maps would make a great starting point for constructing a fantasy world map!


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## Fiberglass Cyborg (Oct 27, 2022)

sknox said:


> These old maps would make a great starting point for constructing a fantasy world map!


It'd be nice, just once, to see a quasi-medieval fantasy novel where the world map is done in the same style, and with the same level of style over accuracy, as real medieval maps!


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## Harpo (Dec 13, 2022)

A recent attempt at improving the London Underground map





						London Underground Map Update : Jug Cerovic Architect
					

jug cerovic architect mapping wayfinding cityscape



					www.jugcerovic.com


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## THX1138 (Dec 13, 2022)

Cahokia Mounds Map in the Eastern US. The Cahokia are native tribes of thew Eastern US


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## THX1138 (Dec 16, 2022)




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## THX1138 (Dec 16, 2022)




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## THX1138 (Dec 16, 2022)




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