# Water in the 21st Century



## Harpo (Jan 13, 2013)

There's a world crisis, and it's water.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2000/world_water_crisis/default.stm

Droughts are common
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/DroughtFacts/

The Lifestraw looks like an amazing little invention:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/remediation/lifestraw.htm
http://www.vestergaard-frandsen.com/lifestraw

There may be wars fought over water
http://www.newstatesman.com/environment/2010/03/water-cyprus-pakistan-yemen
http://www.worldwater.org/conflict.html

Desalination might help
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/drinkseawater.html


Water, it's our life blood.


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## Southern Geologist (Jan 13, 2013)

I'm glad to see someone making a note of this.  Given that I had for a period of several years planned on making a life for myself in the (desert) American southwest I've done a lot of research on water, water distribution, laws about water rights, and related issues.  Cadillac Desert is an excellent resource for those interested in seeing the facts behind water management and dams and the damage that can be done (environmental and economic) by over-use of water and over use of dams to contain water, though it is a bit dated.

At this point I think that simple education is the first step that needs to be taken.  Far too many people are lulled into complacency by the idea that water is a renewable resource--or the idea that we individuals don't need to worry about excessive water use because whichever government we live under will fix the problem.  People need to understand that water can and will become scarce and so we should conserve and that saving us from water scarcity is not something that a government can do with a simple snap of the fingers.


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## Vertigo (Jan 13, 2013)

I have for quite a long time speculated that we will fight wars over water before we fight them over oil. Sad, but that's the way I see it going.


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## Boneman (Jan 13, 2013)

Or.... it's simply Nature taking care of over-population... as it always has.


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## Huttman (Jan 13, 2013)

Water _is_ a renewable resource, there is a cycle to it. That being said, wasting water like it is done or using where it really should be allocated for more important reasons are things to consider. This planet has two massive fresh water preserves that is quickly melting into our salt water oceans. We fund a pipeline for crude oil but h20 still is not considered for such endeavors.


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## Moonbat (Jan 13, 2013)

I guess once the price of a barrel of water reaches $100 (or much less) then they'll start piping it around.
I think, like a lot of resources, once it gets to a certain point of scarcity then things will change and relatively quickly.


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## Dave (Jan 13, 2013)

Where there is no rain then a solution is difficult to see, but in many places water can be much better used that it is a present. 

Very, very little of the water that is treated, chlorinated and piped to our doors is actually drunk. The water used for washing and cleaning could be used to water gardens. Much more recycling and re-use is possible, together with rainwater collection, but it needs to be done on a local scale - within a house, or a block, or a street. We are not geared up with infrastructure to do that, because it was never economic to do so. That is why some people are arguing that the Thames Super Sewer is the wrong answer to the problem of storm waters overflowing the existing London sewer system. 

I believe we need both answers - a top and bottom approach, but the big shiny engineering projects will always win against the small scale backyard projects. In many ways they are far easier to achieve. One big huge construction project for a super sewer, or a new reservoir, or a national water grid, can be railroaded through with a government bill. Contrast that with thousands of small local plumbing and streetwork jobs all bringing with them their own separate legal and landlord headaches.


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## Southern Geologist (Jan 13, 2013)

Huttman said:


> Water _is_ a renewable resource, there is a cycle to it.



My statement was a bit clumsy, I will admit.  It was my fault for using the first draft of that post.  I meant to say that people are still convinced that water is an _infinitely_ renewable resource and that it will continue to magically appear in exactly the quantity needed as long as they keep paying their water bill and that no complications will arise from over-use (or that if they do the government will be able to snap its fingers and make more appear).  As I'm sure you know, this is not the case.


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## Gordian Knot (Jan 13, 2013)

Here in Florida we have been dealing with a moderate to severe water shortage for about a decade. Some years a bit wetter, some years practically bone dry. We have to be especially wary of water overuse because of where our water comes from.

The majority of potable water for the state comes from underground aquifers. Their levels ebb and flow with the seasons, (or, at least they used to). But in a particularly dry year, if too much water is pumped out, sea water starts to leach into the aquifers. Too much sea (salt) water gets in and the aquifer is ruined for good.

So it is critical that once a certain level has been reached, controls must be put into place to prevent any significant further drain on the system. The state's response has been to develop a water control system, both mandatory and optional. Private home owners, for instance, may only water their lawns once a week, the exact day depending on the digits of your street address. The washing of cars at home is not allowed.

The optional stuff is that people are requested to conserve. Fix leaky faucets. Take short showers. Turn the water off during the soap phase of washing hands, and so on.

The other thing the state is doing is allowing more and more high density dwelling complexes, like condos, apartments, etc to be built as opposed to individual houses. What? That doesn't conserve water you say? By golly you would be right! But there is so much more money to be made building apartments than single family homes.

And in the end, the money ALLways wins. And people wonder why I have such a dim outlook on the future, actually lack thereof, of our species........


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## Velocius quam lucem (Jan 16, 2013)

Vertigo said:


> I have for quite a long time speculated that we will fight wars over water before we fight them over oil. Sad, but that's the way I see it going.



I have read this thread with piqued interest since I have known about this issue for quite some time. Sorry to say that we have already fought several wars over oil (Well, not the _we_, rather the _US_), and the water issue could easily continue to get worse. I don't think I'm allowed to post links yet, but here's a few places to check things out:

thewaterproject-dot-org

and, the following quote is from w w w-dot-nrdc-dot-org/international/safewater-dot-asp

"The U.N. estimates that if the proportion of people without access to  safe water and basic sanitation were halved, countries around the world  would save $7.3 billion per year in health care costs, and the annual  global value of adult working days gained because of less illness would  be almost $750 million."

I was recently talking to a climatologist with a PHD in climate change, and she said that one effect of climate change is that snowfall on mountains around the world is starting to decline. 

You can't fight a war when you are sick with water-borne diseases. The folks in that scenario need advocates. 

There have been revolts in South America when corporations in the US tried to impose control over water sources. 

One seaside city had a desalination plant, and found that the waste from the treatment plant was killing marine life when pumped back into the ocean. Fortunately they stopped, but only because they could afford to. 

There is no easy answer to this, but I am inclined to agree with GK - money rules.


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## The Ace (Jan 16, 2013)

Sorry, I can't take this one too seriously.

While many parts of the world may, indeed, have too little water, it's hardly a problem in Scotland.


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## Venusian Broon (Jan 16, 2013)

Huttman said:


> Water _is_ a renewable resource, there is a cycle to it.


 
This statement is not quite true. For example there are large areas of the world, supporting a huge number of people, who rely solely on or to a large extent on underground aquifers that when they dry up, will be gone.


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## Vertigo (Jan 16, 2013)

VB makes a good point and it's not just aquifers; the water table in the Punjab region of India is, I think, so low now that the water they draw up is effectively poisonous due to the high mineral content. I can't back that statement up by the way; I'm just sure I heard that a few years ago on the TV.

I suppose, ultimately, water tables and aquifers are renewable resources... *IF* no more is taken out than comes in. Something we don't seem to be very good at doing.


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## Venusian Broon (Jan 16, 2013)

Yes Vertigo, life is never simple, is it! 

I had in mind fossil water - the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer for example - but even aquifers or water tables that in theory should be renewable are on the verge of being ruined - perhaps permenantly - by terrible water management as you pointed out.

Added to this the fact that these underground resources tend to refuse to neatly conform to national boundaries.


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## Vertigo (Jan 16, 2013)

Venusian Broon said:


> ...Added to this the fact that these underground resources tend to refuse to neatly conform to national boundaries.


 
I hadn't thought about that one, but yes, of course, ouch!


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## Gordian Knot (Jan 16, 2013)

In theory there cannot be a potable water shortage. Three quarters of the planet is covered in salt water. Desalination plants are capable of processing this into drinkable water. The problem is the cost. People will end up paying for water what we now pay for gasoline (or petrol for you folks over the pond). Plus there are some significant environmental issues with the process.

The water issue is serious because it is a "haves" versus "have nots" situation. There are many places on the planet where there is more than enough water. But then there are the places where there is little to no water. Getting the water overage from the former to the latter is difficult and costly.

Humans have settled into areas that never should have been settled in the first place. Take the big cities in the American West like Las Vegas. They have NO water and in order to grow they have to pump more and more water out of the Colorado River to sustain the water usage they now desire. The Colorado has long been the water source for much of our Western seaboard states.

In past decades rainfall was significantly higher than it is now, so it was not such a big deal. The Colorado could support both the coast and the drier states east of the Rockies.

But we are entering a sustained dry period. With so many people pulling water from the Colorado river it's southern end it has actually become a dry river bed! Humans have actually sucked the Colorado River dry!


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## Venusian Broon (Jan 16, 2013)

Gordian Knot said:


> In theory there cannot be a potable water shortage... There are many places on the planet where there is more than enough water. But then there are the places where there is little to no water. Getting the water overage from the former to the latter is difficult and costly.


 
Precisely. Even in sodden tiny Britain, you'd be surprised at the variations. 

Purely measured on rainfall alone, the South-East and East of England could almost be classified as a semi-arid desert, as the biggest portion of the rain the UK gets falls on the West and North. 

Hence the reason that these areas regularly get hose pipe bans and water shortages. They, on average, just don't get enough rainfall to replenish their aquifers - from which most English water is drawn (In the wetter West and North, it makes more sense to use reservoirs/lakes/lochs to store water I believe) 

Now we could construct a 'water highway' and pipe stuff from the damp areas to the dry areas - but who wants to pay the huge costs involved??


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## K. Riehl (Jan 17, 2013)

What about the 15,000+ desalination plants in the world? MIT is working on small scale desalination units for villages. These would work on both brackish and salt water.


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## Huttman (Jan 17, 2013)

http://www.ehow.com/about_5251373_water-renewable-resource_.html


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## Harpo (Jan 17, 2013)

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/service/publicity/news-releases/2005/24_wwd.html

"The average distance that women in Africa and Asia walk to collect water is six kilometres and the weight of water they carry on their heads is about 20kgs - equivalent to the average airport luggage allowance. Today 1.1 billion people still do not have adequate access to safe water and 2.4 billion people are without appropriate sanitation. "

Just imagine that - pack your 20kg suitcase and carry it on your head while walking six kilometres.  Then imagine having to do that every day, regardless of how much your feet might hurt, or whatever else is distracting your attention. 
I couldn't do it.


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## Connavar (Jan 17, 2013)

It depends on where in the world you are in.  When i was vising Somalia last summer i was surprised by the short supply of clean,fresh water to drink, use at home.  You had to buy bottle water to drink, the tap water was too dirty. Water could actually run out.  

The dirty water poor people had to use was pretty sick.   Of course us in decent countries dont even think about water not being fresh and a shortage.  Sure there is water shortage but rich countries dont have to drink,use dirty water....


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## Vertigo (Jan 17, 2013)

Harpo said:


> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/service/publicity/news-releases/2005/24_wwd.html
> 
> "The average distance that women in Africa and Asia walk to collect water is six kilometres and the weight of water they carry on their heads is about 20kgs - equivalent to the average airport luggage allowance. Today 1.1 billion people still do not have adequate access to safe water and 2.4 billion people are without appropriate sanitation. "
> 
> ...


 
I always think people wingeing about hose pipe bans etc. should stop and think about how lucky they are. Having water come conveniently out of a tap should really be considered a privilege rather than a right. Even if you are paying for it.


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## Connavar (Jan 17, 2013)

Harpo said:


> http://www.lboro.ac.uk/service/publicity/news-releases/2005/24_wwd.html
> 
> "The average distance that women in Africa and Asia walk to collect water is six kilometres and the weight of water they carry on their heads is about 20kgs - equivalent to the average airport luggage allowance. Today 1.1 billion people still do not have adequate access to safe water and 2.4 billion people are without appropriate sanitation. "
> 
> ...



That i saw for real when i was visiting my homeland in Africa and i was talking about in my post above.  People in villages had water imported in big cans from the cities.  Clean water was a product you must have every week.  You have to spend alot of energy to have fresh water there was no choice, its about survivle.  

When i first heard reports about water problem in some parts of the world, it was hard to take it serious.  Here in Europe, healthy countries water is something you take for granted.  You dont even have to drink water.  You can buy fresh orange juice every two days and never drink fresh water.


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## Harpo (Jan 28, 2013)

Water is big business, of course:

http://gulftoday.ae/portal/0fc42cd1-8023-401e-8cbe-a668fb423e68.aspx

http://www.waterworld.com/news/2013...anitation-investments-in-southern-brazil.html

http://www.waterworld.com/articles/...an-water-acquires-garrapata-water-system.html

and we all know what big business can achieve, don't we.


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## Jonathan C (Jan 28, 2013)

The Ace said:


> Sorry, I can't take this one too seriously.
> 
> While many parts of the world may, indeed, have too little water, it's hardly a problem in Scotland.


 
That just means that when the water wars come, its our doorstep they'll be coming to.


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## Nerds_feather (Jan 29, 2013)

Connavar said:


> That i saw for real when i was visiting my homeland in Africa and i was talking about in my post above.  People in villages had water imported in big cans from the cities.  Clean water was a product you must have every week.  You have to spend alot of energy to have fresh water there was no choice, its about survivle.
> 
> When i first heard reports about water problem in some parts of the world, it was hard to take it serious.  Here in Europe, healthy countries water is something you take for granted.  You dont even have to drink water.  You can buy fresh orange juice every two days and never drink fresh water.



So your family is originally from Somalia? I'm very curious to hear what it is like. It's only in the (Western) news when something bad happens, but--never having been there--it's hard to gauge how accurate a picture that is.


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## Harpo (Feb 22, 2013)

Flooding news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21544991


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## Harpo (Feb 25, 2013)

http://waterfortheages.org/2013/02/...gn=Feed:+WaterForTheAges+(Water+For+The+Ages)


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## Harpo (Mar 5, 2013)

How much of this is mere scaremongering?
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...hange-the-lives-of-every-person-on-the-planet


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## jastius (Mar 5, 2013)

Canada is a very wet country, we're slowly growing dry. places that were once ponds are now swamp or completely drained. everyone has to dig their wells deeper, out here in the country a lot of us can't reach water no matter how we dig and we have to get water piped in. the wells are either dry or when they do get water, its contaminated.
The biggest user of water is coca cola. Since they started buying our water out here, there's none left in the ground for the locals. Now on top of that we have european agricultural conglomerates setting up production facilities out here. These are mainly things which are high end of the scale in water usage, like pig ranching by the millions of head. and then we have giant chinese companies buying out farms by the million acre for wheat production to be shipped directly back to china without import or export duties. And these businesses are set up along the red river area, one of the only water sources for half the province. Then they set up a bottling operation that is taking fresh water to be shipped to china by the ton.  
so they are taking out of the country the clean water, using and dirtying the water we have left over here, and leaving the waste for us to deal with. And not only that, the american ranchers in North dakota are getting violent about their so called right to our water in our rivers. We had to get international mediators from the world court in. They ruled in our favour but that doesn't help the people that were hurt.
We just a few months ago won a sanction against an american company that wanted to process waste by sucking dry some of our northern ontario wetlands, which happened to be the source waters for the great lakes. The plan was to drain a two million hectare underground aquifer and ship off the water and replace into the big hole millions of tonnes of garbage. All at the source waters for the most densely populated part of our country...and nobody thought it was anything to be concerned about.


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## MontyCircus (Mar 6, 2013)

Harpo said:


> How much of this is mere scaremongering?
> http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...hange-the-lives-of-every-person-on-the-planet



I don't think you can trust anything from that site.  THE END IS NEAR and all that.


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## Harpo (Mar 13, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI


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## Harpo (May 18, 2013)

http://www.ufodigest.com/article/moon-water-0514

Daft, in my opinion.  What do you think?


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## Mirannan (May 18, 2013)

Saying that water is a renewable resource is rather missing the point. The point is, rather, whether it's renewed faster or slower than it's being used. (As an aside, Earth has no water shortage; it's a matter of distribution and purity.)

Being perhaps a little silly about it, this is also true of various mineral resources. The beginnings of coal deposit formation are happening in many places, all over the world, in such places as peat bogs; oil is probably forming on the ocean bottom right now; and even mineral deposits are reforming in volcanic areas where hot water from the depths is coming up and the dissolved minerals recrystallising.

However - it's also true that much of America's Midwest is going to be impossible to farm economically within a human lifetime, as the various aquifiers supplying irrigation water are drawn down far faster than they are renewed. The same applies in many other places, too.


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## Velocius quam lucem (May 18, 2013)

Harpo said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI



Everyone should watch this! (Good find Harpo!)


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## Harpo (Sep 13, 2013)

I think this may be daft too, we'll see

New Invention Makes Ocean Water Drinkable - Susanne Posel | Susanne Posel


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## Boneman (Sep 13, 2013)

I might have said it here before, but unless Earth starts to reduce its population, nature (lack of water, lack of food, lack of resources) will do it for us. That report makes depressing reading when you see what the IMF gets up to with struggling countries.


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## Harpo (Nov 20, 2013)

NASA satellite launched to find clues about Mars' lost water | Reuters

Hopefully we can learn what the martians did wrong, and avoid doing the same here.


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## Harpo (Feb 22, 2014)

Comparing the Uk's floods & storms of now and then:
1607
1703
1953
2000
2007
2009
2013-14



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26172688


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## Harpo (Jun 26, 2014)

BBC News - Water as only mealtime drink 'will combat child obesity'

Water becoming more valuable than gold - Apr. 24, 2014

Solutions to the Global Water Crisis: 10 Takeaways From The World Water Forum | Joan Michelson


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## Mirannan (Jun 26, 2014)

A couple more points. First of all, using greywater (water after use for washing/cleaning) sounds like a good idea but has problems. For a start, water used for intensive cleaning often has large amounts of really nasty stuff like disinfectants and bleach in it; using this stuff for watering the garden (for example) might well kill the grass and/or wreck the soil biota.

I suppose one solution to this might to have three separate drainage systems for the average house. Rainwater collection, which would also include the drainage from things like dishwashing and laundry, for reuse on the garden; sewage to be sent off for reprocessing; and contaminated waste, to be much more intensively cleaned up. Unfortunately, this would be horribly expensive and probably wouldn't work for the same reason too many bins for collection doesn't work; people wouldn't use it properly.

And another point is that clean, fresh water is another problem that goes away if you have cheap, clean energy. Desalination is expensive because the cost of energy is high.

If energy was really cheap, we could use brute-force techniques. Distil all waste water and reuse the distillate, burn the residue and run the smoke and ash through a plasma discharge to get rid of the nasty pyrochemicals and stuff that won't burn.


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## Harpo (Jun 26, 2014)

About desalination:  
The oil producing nations of the middle east are lacking in water (Kuwait imports water, for example) but have the wealth to pay for desalination plants.  These plants could be powered by Solar energy farms, spread all over the deserts.  

There must be a problem with this idea, or they'd all be doing it.


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