# Nemesis theory - Planet X



## Kilroy (Jan 8, 2003)

Nemesis, ur name comes from the Nemesis theory, not the planet found beyond Pluto.  The planet, called Quaor (something like that) is classified as a Kuiper Belt object along with the supposed hundreds of other wide orbitting rocks.  Pluto would have been  Kuiper belt object if it were discovered now.

Kilroy Was Here


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## nemesis (Jan 8, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

There is no recognised planet. There is a small object smaller than Pluto. Pluto is barely a planet and there is debate there. Yes my name comes from the theory. I like that theory but accept nothing.


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## Survivor (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Wasn't the reason that it was called Nemesis because of the theory that its orbit disrupted comets and sent them into the inner solar system, hence causing periodic mass extinctions on Earth?

Searching...

Okay, the Nemesis theory postulates a companion star, a red or perhaps brown dwarf, that comes close enough to the solar system every 26 million years to throw a bunch of comets at us.  It doesn't refer to a planet at all.  The corresponding theory using a planet is referred to as the "Planet X" theory.


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## nemesis (Jan 10, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Hence Nemesis the dark star not Nemesis the planet x.


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## mac1 (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Brian - I am glad you found the Niburu Stuff interesting as it is a subject I have been interested in for years, as a bit of an amateur skeptical parapsychologist. The theories of Nibiru are for the most part rash and unsubstansiated, but in some cases the evidence given is remarkably convincing given the outlandish subject matter. All the stuff relating to the Bible is just a case of people finding connections where none exist. If memory serves me correctly, the theory basically says that when you translate the Bible from its earliest known form all references to God are mistaken. The word used as God is Elohim, which apparently translates, not as "God", but as "Those who came from the sky". In the simplest example, "God created man", Becomes "Those who came from the sky created man". I'm sure you get the message.

"The B'nai Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the B'nai Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them -- they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name."
From The Interlinear Hebrew Bible - Genesis 6

Whereas all this Bible side of things can easily be dismissed. The Sumerians knowledge of Astronomy cannot. I think thos is the reason that even now, probably 4 or 5 years after reading about the theory, I still find it facinating. If they knew about Pluto, its entirely possibly (if still unlikely) that Nibiru exists. This is what really facinates me. If you strip away all the conjecture, theorey, and utter sh*te, you are still left with a race who had a grasp of Science and Space that was 4000 years ahead of itself.

As for it influencing your books, it brought a smile to my face to read this. It does make for a great story if nothing else. If you find the time to put it on here I would qute like to read it, or you could email it too me if you get a chance. If not don't worry about it. Also, where could I get a copy(s) of your books as I am quite interested in reading them.

Good "Those who came from the sky" it's late. I should get some sleep. LOL  ;D


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## Survivor (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Elohim is the plural form of Eloah (Allah in Arabic) which just means God.  The given passage is a good example of why you shouldn't use the Interlinear Hebrew Bible.  But your conclusion is right, there is no evidence in the Bible for this Niburu theory.

Not just the Sumerians, but many ancient peoples had knowledge of astronomy that was too advanced to be explained by conventional theory, including the predecessors of Abraham.  Most of this knowledge has been lost since there seems to have been no practical reason for preserving it, but it is clear from the record that it once existed.

Generally, I would suspect that as each tradition died out, there were spurious additions and interpolations either to try to make the knowledge more "relevant" or just because that sort of thing happens when a tradition is waning.  So none of the information that hasn't been confirmed by modern astronomy can be relied on, however suggestive it might be.


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

I normally try to be a little more diplomatic than the word usage in the previous post - but, really, people awarding themselves titles as galactic emissaries/messiahs etc simply because they have had an idea, a little inspiration, and maybe even a website, just irritates the hell out of me! But I digress…

I remember reading a little about the subjects of "nemesis" and "planet x" a while back. Seems everything hinges on the apparent periodic extinctions and the perturbed orbits of outer planets. Although I found them interesting, I realised that was no actual need for another significant outer body. 

One train of thought from this involved looking at our galaxy and realising that the relative positions of stars are not set as they orbit the galactic centre - so what if out solar system periodic closes on another, for example, the Centauri system? What if the perturbations and disturbance of the Oort Cloud objects was due to gravitational influence of our stellar neighbours if their galactic orbits sometimes pushed them closer?

In the end, in a moment of great inspiration, I stumbled across a different explanation far-encompassing theory. It takes me just over 600 words in emperor to make it a statement of fact. Hope it inspires  - and I just bloody hope it's published soon because contemporary science is catching up enough to make the connection before myself. And as a speculative fiction writer, that simply won't do!


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## Kilroy (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

I answered this, planet X was identified, its call Quaor (or something like it)  there are hundreds or thousands of objects orbiting the sun outside and around Pluto's orbit.  These have been classified as Kuiper Belts Objects.  The largest so far, Quaor, is half the size of Pluto.  There think that there could be other abject out in the Belt the same size or larger than Pluto.  Pluto's wacky orbit seems to agree that it is really one of those objects, not a formed planet.  You got it now?


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 15, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

So far as I remember, wasn't "Planet X" believed responsible for the perturbed orbit of the outer planets, and generally was expected to be a fairly substantial body? So far as I can see, the Kuiper Belt Object referred to does not fit this criteria. Assuming anyone still pays attention to the notion, has the notion of "Planet X" evolved into this scenario?


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## mac1 (Mar 5, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Now this is what I call a post, It started off as a question about a Star Trek movie and turned in a discussion about ancient Sumeria, Planet X, and Nemesis Theory.

I was wondering - did anyone ever find out when Nibiru is said to be returning to our solar system. It would be interesting to know. Also is that comet that was supposed to be on a possible collision course with the moon in 2026 still on its way, or has its trajectory changed. I havent heard any mention of it in years. Is it in fact Nibiru??  ???


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Darn it, New Scientist ran an article in December about Planet X, talking about a cliff in the distribution of objects in the Oort cloud that could possibly signify a rocky planet towards the size of earth. But...you've got to be a subscriber to access the article (and even if I could, no one here would have the permissions to read it unless they were also subscribers).

As for Nibiru  - I used to read a lot of mysteries/supernatural type work, but this is a totally new one on me. Dogon, fine, Vulcan and Phaeton, fine - Planet X and Nemesis - fine. But Nibaru - not a sausage. All I can find online aer the self-proclaimed space emissaries, who seem to have simply copied language from other fringe issues and changed a few key words - nothing original, except the zealousness perhaps (though I've not checked up anything so closely online before in that field).

Meaning, that I cannot find any Mesopotamian reference to work from - would be great if I could before I have an online buddy who has a great knowledge of Mesopotamian language, so could verify the issue. Hey, I'm returning to one of his haunts tonight so I'll ask...

Meanwhile, Bigmacscanlon et al - any potentially useful information online that narrows the issue? 

Btw - the comet issue - 2026 was it? - believe that was supposed to be headed for earth (was it 2029??). Either way, it was a group of comet watchers crying wolf for funding, so far as appears...

Sorry, little rushed.


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## mac1 (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

I read a book years ago that came free with a issue of Alien Encounters magazine. It was a bit overzealous, and a little too presumptuous in places (these things are very seldom written from a objective sceptical perspective) but it explained the Nibiru myth quite well. I will try and find the book and quote a few good paragraphs, but don't hold your breath as I haven't seen it in years (perhaps by some extradordinary coincidence someone reading this has a copy and would do the honours). Failing that I will have a look online for something less vague, and post a link.

Watch This Space.


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## mac1 (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

There are some facinating (if somewhat dubiously overprecise) posts on this board:-

http://pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntforplanetxfrm63

This is quite a good summary of the issue, with loads of links (in green), explaining the many aspects of the "mythology":-

http://www.crystalinks.com/nibiru.html

I managed to find Paragon Publishings website, but there are no references to Alien Encounters magazine. Unfortunately after about 12 or 13 issues, it ran out of interesting topics and was cancelled after 26 issues. Paragon now produce DVD, PC, and games console magazines and nothing else. Perhaps they are ashamed of their open-minded past.

This is a very informative site :-

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Planet_X.html

As is this:-

http://xfacts.com/x.htm

Hope this helps


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Well, I asked someone I've known a long time online - he's got a most superb understanding of Mesopotamia and Semetic languages.

He made this simple reply:

- - - - - - - - -​
"what I'd like to know is if "Niburu" has any fact in Mesopotamia? ... or is it plucked out of thin air by fringe groups?"

The latter.

- - - - - - - - -​

I was going to leave it at that, but I checked out the sites. From what I know of various "mystery" topics (you know, from books on "the supernatural", etc), the first site reads a mere rehashing of different topics together. The XFact's site is almost as bad - like a politician is does everything _except_ answer the question posed - ie, "what is Nibiru?"

However the second site read far more sober, and has given me some real information to play with - I don;t have time to surf properly now, but this should suffice:

"The claim is that it is described in a "Babylonian text called Enuma elish". The supposedly Sumerian name of "Nibiru" supposedly is interchangeable with "Marduk"."

Now I've got that it sounds like there's soemthing traceable. IT also sounds as if it's all taken as a particular reading from Mesopotamian mythology - ie, these are normally translated as actions of the gods, but a reinterpretation suggests otherwise...

...which means hopefully I've got something to work on. 

But later - not time tonight.


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Just had a reply back from my Mesopotamian studies friend  - he says that Marduk is Jupiter. If Nibiru is therefore meant to be Marduk, as per the second link mentioned, then using him as a source seriously compromises the theory.

I will try to verify...


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## mac1 (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

Does anyone here understand this??

Could you please explain it to me if so??

http://pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntforplanetxfrm63.showMessage?topicID=41.topic

Is it just utter randomness, thats what it looks like, or does he think hes found Nibiru?


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

If you mean "are those list of figures reliable" the simple answer has to be no. I just cannot see how anyone can test the veracity of a possible unknown planet existing in an unknown orbit by assuming that the orbit, mass, and angular momentum are all _precisely_ known! It looks like a major contradiction - churning out random numbers and then arguing about them.   :-

Btw - those links do look interesting, tho; - but I'd put my pennies on a general Kuiper Belt object - assuming there's a single point cause: 

Spacecrafts pulled by mystery force 

Old spacecraft makes surprise discovery 

Of course, there could be another theory applicable here - but I'll leave it at that for the moment. 


EDIT - The story at MSN mentions something of the history - though you got to click through "all story" link for it.


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## mac1 (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

How far out does the Kuiper Belt stretch too??

Am I right in saying that Pluto is either the far side of it, or in the middle of it? I'm sure I picked that up from a documentary somewhere, I may be wrong.

As for that link, I drew exactly the same conclusion. The guy seems to have just randomly picked some figures out of the air and started appling them to equations. Its actually really quite funny when you think about it. He has basically made up ridiculously accurate dimensions and orbital information, for a planet nobody can even prove the existance of, and spent hours, and possibly days doing advanced calculations with them. He must be mad.  ;D

Also, I haven't seen any figures for the decelleration of those spacecraft, or for their current locations, but is it infact possible that the craft have simply left the Heliopause, and that interstellar gas is now a more dominant force than Solar Wind. For reference the Heliopause is roughly 4 times further away than Pluto.

P.S. How did you rename the links to those two pages. Is there a way I can do that in future, or not??


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re:Nemesis*

*Kuiper Belt:*

A lazy search on Google places the Kuiper belt at a distance of around 30-50 AU, with the Oort Cloud itself spreading upto around 100,000 AU.

Articles referenced (and some are quite interesting, all from different angles):  1,  2,  3,  4,  5.



*Pioneer 10*

Those articles linked to on Pioneer 10 before are very old - so I ran a new search but this was the only other article - and the most recent - to mention the slowing issue. No details or explanation given.

Of course, _if_ someone really wanted to they could claim there's a conspiracy theory that Pioneer 10 was switched off _precisely_ because it had flown by Nibiru, discovered alien life, and therefore NASA wanted to hide all information on the issue from the rest of us folks on earth. Actually, I bet if you posted that information on the Planet X messageboard then within a year most of the Nibiru websites would carry that information as _fact_. Net experiement anyone? Nah - misinformation isn't my thing.

PS - Oops - just noticed this article from the BBC last year, which just happens to mention that it was still apparently within the Heliosphere.



*URL posting*

I really ought to post a sticky thread on the issue of the tags used almost universally around forums - not just YaBB SE (like this one), but UBB, vBulls, etc.

Anyway, posting an URL with title is done like this (but without _any_ of the spaces in the brackets):

[ url=http://url.com ]The text you want the link in[ /url ]


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## Fijimand (Nov 18, 2003)

*What class as thought me*

As I have learned in my class here at college, the nemesis theory and Planet X have an effect on each other.  The planet of course has been named, but its not a planet at all, in Pluto is not a planet either, but it has not been changed it status in the world of astronomy due to the fact that it has to called a planet for so long.  The Idea of a large rock planet past pluto is rather unlike due to the way the solar system was formed.  however something does effect the orbit of pluto it has an eliptic orbit of +- 17 as the rest of the are within +-8  this is rather large difference, leavin the explanation to be something with a large gravatation pull.  What who knows maybe I will have more info to come.  If you would like to hear something interesting kinda like the nemesis theory, look up info on a dual moon that exisit around the earth.


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## Brian G Turner (Nov 22, 2003)

Dual moon around the earth? Not encountered that idea before, but it does sound interesting. Do you have any links to that?

Oh - and welcome to the chronicles-network, *Fijimand*.


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## Stalker (Jul 4, 2005)

Elohim is just a plural of Eloh or Allah that in Semitic language means God.
Ha-shem by Sitchin means people from the shems but this semantics faces serious arguments. There's also another word Nephilim (sp.?)...


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 21, 2015)

Interesting to read an article on New Scientist today, which suggests that the Solar System could have stolen planetoids from a passing star:
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ht-have-stolen-a-miniplanet.html#.VYZ_BUYhEuc

However, it's the section at the end that is especially interesting:



> But Bromley points out that the orbits of Sedna-like objects show a persistent alignment that is hard to explain without the "shepherding" effect of a larger planet lurking in the outer solar system. Such a planet doesn't seem to sit comfortably within the passing-star scenario.



My understanding is that the theory of another planet - or dwarf star - had already been discounted. However, this new observation seems to suggest that the possibility is still alive.


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## Mirannan (Jun 21, 2015)

A couple of points:

First, Pluto is the largest object in the Kuiper Belt so far known but isn't the largest known trans-Neptunian object; that honour belongs to Eris, but neither is anything like massive enough to cause the sort of chaos mooted in the Nemesis theory.

Second, whether any large trans-Neptunian object is a planet or a brown dwarf is largely a matter of terminology; superjovian gas giants and brown dwarfs shade into each other, although IIRC some brown dwarfs have a small amount of deuterium fusion. It's also quite possible that there is a really small (M9) red dwarf in an eccentric orbit that just happens to be near its aphelion at the moment; such an object would be difficult to detect.

It's also possible that there is something a lot more exotic out there, such as a neutron star or black hole the precursor star of which blew up in a supernova before the Solar System was formed - or at any rate very soon after. Of course, this would properly mean that the Sun (and its planetary system) is actually in orbit around it. A 4-billion-year-old neutron star would be very inconspicuous indeed.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jun 21, 2015)

We are in a less dense (bubble) of "our" spiral in the Milky way, the result of a supernova before our sun (and our neighbours) existed.

I think Jupiter is about 1/3rd or less than smallest red dwarf known. That's not to say that there are not some smaller than we know red dwarfs, but there is some minimum size for fusion. I have it noted somewhere ... I'm not sure.

We need some better observations 

The further from the sun and the Gas giants the easier it is for objects to be in an erratic orbit due to something passing by. But that would disturb the Oort cloud which is a 1000x further away than the Kuiper belt. It's supposedly the origin of most or all comets, so perhaps it was disturbed. There is a lot of mass in it, but of course it's hugely spread out. Mapping all the Kuiper belt and Oort cloud objects of any significant size would end the speculation.
Perhaps the next comet mission should be a piggy back ride back out? Though a LONG time for the orbit.


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## BAYLOR (Jun 21, 2015)

Ray McCarthy said:


> We are in a less dense (bubble) of "our" spiral in the Milky way, the result of a supernova before our sun (and our neighbours) existed.
> 
> I think Jupiter is about 1/3rd or less than smallest red dwarf known. That's not to say that there are not some smaller than we know red dwarfs, but there is some minimum size for fusion. I have it noted somewhere ... I'm not sure.
> 
> ...




Agreed ,It would be nice If we map that region and have idea of whats out there what could be a potential collison threat.


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