# Project Blue Book



## REBerg

*Little Finger Lives!
(on the History Channel)*


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## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> ​


 
This one seemed a bit odd in that three actual historical figures are in it, in fact the main character is J. Allen Hynek played by Aidan Gillen. 
Boy the appetite for flying saucers never fades!

I have this question. Suppose UFOs are really spaceships. They can't come from the solar system. They have to be starships. Suppose it could be proved definitively that they are really aliens with starships.
What is our next move???


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## tobl

Al Jackson said:


> This one seemed a bit odd in that three actual historical figures are in it, in fact the main character is J. Allen Hynek played by Aidan Gillen.
> Boy the appetite for flying saucers never fades!
> 
> I have this question. Suppose UFOs are really spaceships. They can't come from the solar system. They have to be starships. Suppose it could be proved definitively that they are really aliens with starships.
> What is our next move???


that's easy. find out there point of entry in our dimension. like you said they probably are not from our solar system. so, either they have a base in our solar system, they came from nibiru, or more probable for me considering the distances envolved in travelling in the universe, they came from other dimension. the power requisites are possibly smaller.
third: try to establish contact on their insertion point.
fourth: if they recuse or don't accept, blow them out of the sky. this is our planet.


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## Al Jackson

tobl said:


> that's easy. find out there point of entry in our dimension. like you said they probably are not from our solar system. so, either they have a base in our solar system, they came from nibiru, or more probable for me considering the distances envolved in travelling in the universe, they came from other dimension. the power requisites are possibly smaller.
> third: try to establish contact on their insertion point.
> fourth: if they recuse or don't accept, blow them out of the sky. this is our planet.


*"The only good grey is a dead grey!"*


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## BAYLOR

There was a  project Blue Book series back in the 1970's. I think it lasted one season. It was kind of entertaining.


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## Al Jackson

Project Blue Book premiers this Tuesday on the* MOSTLY NOT HISTORY CHANNEL*. 
We shall see.


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## Graymalkin

Don't forget the numerous accounts of discs emerging from oceans, seas, caves in the Antarctic... Maybe there's a large habitable volume inside the earth (presuming it is not flat.)
Our first move should be to present them with a bill for rent arrears. Just bluff it and take whatever settlement they offer. Might not be too well off so we need to be reasonable.


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## Al Jackson

So I saw the first episode because our cable service has it as a premium. 
Says “inspired by” the personal experiences of Dr. J. Allen Hynek , as far as I know Hynek had zero experiences as in the story here! O well.. The production vales seem good, seems a period setting in the early 1950s. Cast is good , Aidan Gillen is making a career playing Americans!  Man can't they think of another way to frame the narrative than conspiracy-minded?!  The teleplay for the first episode (Fuller Dogfight, odd title) need more class , I think there are too many scripts to write these days for TV and not enough writing talent ! Not sure where this show is going .


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## clovis-man

Al Jackson said:


> Says “inspired by” the personal experiences of Dr. J. Allen Hynek , as far as I know Hynek had zero experiences as in the story here!



Not unless you count his appearance in Close Encounters.


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## BAYLOR

Al Jackson said:


> This one seemed a bit odd in that three actual historical figures are in it, in fact the main character is J. Allen Hynek played by Aidan Gillen.
> Boy the appetite for flying saucers never fades!
> 
> I have this question. Suppose UFOs are really spaceships. They can't come from the solar system. They have to be starships. Suppose it could be proved definitively that they are really aliens with starships.
> What is our next move???



To Ty determine  why they are here and what is it they really want. We may not like the answers to both of   those questions.


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## Al Jackson

clovis-man said:


> Not unless you count his appearance in Close Encounters.


That was an interesting appearance.
In the Blue Book series 'inspired' seems to have more to do with the X Files than Hynek's life!


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## ctg

Spoiler: S01E01 - The Fuller Dogfight



MJ-12 watching the alien that is based on The Day Earth Stood Still telling them that they came in peace and that  Earth has to change their ways. It feels like a load of bollocks, until you hear the story about the Stranger in the Pentagon. 

I know this might sound a bit ranty, but over the years I've invested a lot of time in this subject. Just like millions of more. So, personally I liked the premise more I liked Spielberg's Taken. Not even the Men-In-Black felt extraordinary, but closer to the actual history. 

There are numerous things written about them. People have made films about them, and there is whole road dedicated to the Extraterrestrial Life in the US of A. So, yeah, it is a fancy SF subject, but like before, we are already living in the time where hoverboards and other things have become reality. So why not come out with the Disclosure on the Alien Subject via the History channel's dramatised TV series? 

Maybe the reason for that is the taboo that is still going around it. Nobody wants to get ridiculed, or put down, just because they saw Martians. Except very rarely the Encounters of the Third Kind are those domed headed Martian's we have loved to see in the Hollywood productions.

If you have looked into the Stranger in the Pentagon, you'll soon find out that the alien claimed he came from the Venus, just like the classical Hollywood Trope, and there are other inconsistencies in the story that it makes the whole thing too ridiculous to be real.

Therefore, it is ironic to see the General Harding as MJ-1 saying that "is too much" and "they need to create a public project to explain the subject." Around the same time as the PBB started MJ-1/Pentagon created another study, to find out what would happen, if they came out with the truth and that thing says, "The people would panic. There would be a mass hysteria and most probably an economic disaster, if not something worse."

Because of that study, we cannot have the so called Disclosure in the "Alien Subject." In this episode, we got every normal things, and a few additional details, like the melt patterns in the wing. 






Just look at it. No ordinary crash with the "Weather Balloon" can do that! But yeah, that is computer generated detail for sure as we cannot see the real thing in the dramatisation. What is interesting is that the all-denying colonel came from the Hangar 18 at Wright Patterson Base. And that he was ordered by the General Harding to study the thing. 

But to him toating the party line of "it's nothing," doesn't explain the unexplainable, the 700 hundred figure of things that couldn't be said were a moon or a long distance projection, or even the "swamp gas." It is these cases that the Pentagon is so nervous about as it deals with the National Security. 

To put it simply, in this first episode they showed an USAF plane dodfighting with an unidentified, most probably an alien drone. Being brought down, not crashed like in the experiment later, and the major investigator gets visited by the MiB. 

What I didn't liked about it, was that they used the fair ground trope to illustrate the contact. And they hid the fact that Dr Hynek was taken, given a brief and returned back to home later on with tampered mind. In the movies, you see the MiB doing exactly that. Most of the times you get wiped. Sometimes you retain strong images and you'll need hypnotherapy to get them out. 

Thing is, we understand all that science now, and the understanding is wider than what it was at back in the 1960's, where the Project Blue Book is situated. All thanks to the Internet. You don't even have to read the books as you can find uboob videos, and some of they are something you can only watch three minutes before turning it off.

You have to look at today and what has happened recently as the Pentagon came out with the AATIP videos on the Unidentified Flying Objects, or Advanced Aerial Threat as the Lords in the Five Pointed Building called it very recently. Just like everything, even their determinations and definitions on the subject has changed. 

We are not alone. It is perfectly completely normal to believe that the aliens are real and we are most probably visited. It is that by whom bit that is still a bit hazy. Some say it's aliens, others claim it's the future. Some go as far as to tell they are from another dimension. 

Time-Travel, Parallel Dimensions, ET's ... these are not just Science Fiction. They are also facts. Scientific facts and we are not allowed to really know about them, because of the taboo.


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## REBerg

This show takes me back to my youth.
Back then, UFOs were synonymous with flying saucers, and I was sure they were real. I latched onto a book by George Adamski and presented its findings to anyone I thought might listen.
Now, I think aliens exist, but I strongly doubt they have spent any time freewheeling around the Earth. Still, revisiting those days when I and many others looked to the skies with a mixture of fear and wonder will be fun.
I'll try to ignore the whole government conspiracy cover-up aspect of the series.


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## Al Jackson

ctg said:


>


A little borrowing from Dr. Strangelove. The Day the Earth Stood Still insert is odd.


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## clovis-man

Al Jackson said:


> The production vales seem good, seems a period setting in the early 1950s.



Regarding production values: Nice job of getting appropriate vintage autos  to display and to include in the action. But the airplane. The aircraft in question throughout the first episode is a North American AT6. AT stands for "advanced trainer", It was not used for air defense. And it does not have machine guns, which were depicted shooting at the Foo Fighter. The hangar images underscore this. History channel is usually pretty careful about such things. But an AT6 is nothing like a Supermarine Spitfire or a P-51 Mustang.

Not sure if the story itself will be worth the effort. Lots of conspiracy stuff it would appear. Perhaps some justified. I suspect most is not.


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## Droflet

Yeah, the first ep was okay but I'll wait and see where this goes.


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## ctg

Droflet said:


> Yeah, the first ep was okay but I'll wait and see where this goes.



Why are you holding? What did you really thought about it?



clovis-man said:


> It was not used for air defense. And it does not have machine guns, which were depicted shooting at the Foo Fighter.





Spoiler



We don't know for sure as we don't have the documents. It could had been loaded with .50 for training purposes. AT6 can carry them, but I did find it highly strange that he would have engaged the target on airspace without informing the command. Also another noticable thing is that they didn't contact radar operators. A weather balloon has particular kind of track and reflection. AAT or classically UFO totally another. 

They tried their best to explain it by the demo crash. One that was hit was brought down cleanly even though the pilot was catatonic. The other one crashed and burned. Two different scientific evidences. Addition to the balloon observations.


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## clovis-man

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> We don't know for sure as we don't have the documents. It could had been loaded with .50 for training purposes. AT6 can carry them, but I did find it highly strange that he would have engaged the target on airspace without informing the command. Also another noticable thing is that they didn't contact radar operators. A weather balloon has particular kind of track and reflection. AAT or classically UFO totally another.
> 
> They tried their best to explain it by the demo crash. One that was hit was brought down cleanly even though the pilot was catatonic. The other one crashed and burned. Two different scientific evidences. Addition to the balloon observations.



I think it just got down to what antique aircraft were available for filming. The AT6 is still plentiful.


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## Anthoney

It looks better the Project UFO did.  It was a 70s show based on Project Blue Book.  Certainly darker.


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## Cathbad

Just watched the first episode and Iliked it!


Did anyone else get the cherry pie reference?


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## Scookey

Despite all the great possibilities of this series, I've heard very little about it living up to its full potential - which is a shame. Did anyone see the original Bluebook series, from the 1970s? Not that I'm showing my age or anything It was a different time with very different expectations but that series I loved.


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## Anthoney

Scookey said:


> Did anyone see the original Bluebook series



Yes.  That's Project UFO.


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## Scookey

Anthoney said:


> Yes.  That's Project UFO.


Ah, brilliant, thanks. Had forgotten the title. I'll keep a look out for it in re-runs


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## ctg

Cathbad said:


> Did anyone else get the cherry pie reference?



I didn't notice, but I get the reference.


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## clovis-man

Cathbad said:


> Just watched the first episode and Iliked it!
> 
> 
> Did anyone else get the cherry pie reference?



Good pie!


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## Phyrebrat

If aliens arrive? Well that’s simple; we try to monetise it with caps and car stickers, then fight over who of us owns the technology.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if time-space travel could only be successful through some form of meditation or mental state that can only come from an enlightened being. That way the aliens could only be good, and the only humans who could use the tech would be ‘nice’ ones 

Yeah... but no. 

pH


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## REBerg

*1.02 The Flatwoods Monster*
Dr. Hynek and Capt. Quinn seem to be experiencing the same uneasy bonding process that Mulder and Scully underwent in the early episodes of the _X-Files_. Hynek wants to believe, and Quinn wants to explain. Is the mysterious man in the hat the equivalent of the cigarette-smoking man?


Spoiler



They didn't waste a lot of time walking the line between aliens and flying saucers vs. weather balloons and meteor strikes, giving us a closeup of the alien survivor and undraping the spacecraft wreckage. At least, for the purposes of the show, we know where the truth lies.


Much to my surprise, I have not seen Little Finger while watching Hynek.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Is the mysterious man in the hat the equivalent of the cigarette-smoking man?



He's the Man-in-Black. Everything about them is mysterious. Some believe they are aliens.


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> He's the Man-in-Black. Everything about them is mysterious. Some believe they are aliens.


Agent J or Agent K?


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Agent J or Agent K?



Dude ... I'm about to watch the episode. Please, don't make me to guess. LOL


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## ctg

Coming over here God knows where and crash landing among the savages, cannot be on top of the list for the interstellar travellers.



Spoiler: S01E02 - The Flatwoods Monster



This is the original case. Also if you check it out, you'll see the drawing on the monster, depicted as half owl, half man. In the recent history Bethesda's abysmally received Fallout76 also features this particular paranormal creature.

_About 7:15 p.m. on September 12, 1952, at Flatwoods, a little village in the hills of West Virginia, some youngsters were playing football on the school playground. Suddenly they saw a fiery UFO streak across the sky and, apparently, land on a hilltop of the nearby Bailey Fisher farm. The youths ran to the home of Mrs. Kathleen May, who provided a flashlight and accompanied them up the hill. In addition to Mrs. May, a local beautician, the group included her two sons, Eddie 13, and Freddie 14, Neil Nunley 14, Gene Lemon 17, and Tommy Hyer and Ronnie Shaver, both 10, along with Lemon’s dog.

There are myriad, often contradictory versions of what happened next, but UFO writer Gray Barker was soon on the scene and wrote an account for Fate magazine based on tape-recorded interviews. He found that the least emotional account was provided by Neil Nunley, one of two youths who were in the lead as the group hastened to the crest of the hill. Some distance ahead was a pulsing red light. Then, suddenly, Gene Lemon saw a pair of shining, animal-like eyes, and aimed the flashlight in their direction.

The light revealed a towering "man-like" figure with a round, red "face" surrounded by a "pointed, hood-like shape." The body was dark and seemingly colorless, but some would later say it was green, and Mrs. May reported drape-like folds. The monster was observed only momentarily, as suddenly it emitted a hissing sound and glided toward the group. Lemon responded by screaming and dropping his flashlight, whereupon everyone fled.

The group had noticed a pungent mist at the scene and afterward some were nauseated. A few locals, then later the sheriff and a deputy (who came from investigating a reported airplane crash), searched the site but "saw, heard and smelled nothing." The following day A. Lee Stewart, Jr., from the Braxton Democrat discovered "skid marks" in the roadside field, along with an "odd, gummy deposit" -- traces attributed to the landed "saucer" (Barker 1953). __The Flatwoods UFO Monster - CSI_

I find it super intriguing that the plane was leaving behind a contrail of smoke and super heated particles. Almost as if it had come in at wrong angle and lost whatever shield it'd left during the atmospheric entry. You could see that there was no real weather phenomenon during that night, and therefore the crash could not be depicted to be caused by for example a lightening strike.

Not even if it was a sprite. Although we don't know that for sure.






First time you see the 'monster,' you almost can assume that it's a visitor wearing some sort of suit. Some files has been claiming that the suit that the greys are wearing over their bodies is biotechnical. Their eyes are covered with lenses that are said to have lead US to develop the Nightvision technology back in the fifties, issuing it out at sixties to the soldiers going into the Vietnam War.

It is however incredible that one can survive a burning entry, crash land, start a forest fire and walk out from the vehicle on your own. We humans would be confused and certainly shocked, but we don't know for sure if the Flatwoods Monster was anything like that. Surely they must have the "Fight or Flight" reaction that Cpt Quinn was mention.

I kind of loved that the Flatwood citizens had an adverse reaction and they were ready to put up a fight with the bloody alien. Surely West Virginia is a hill billy area, but the people living there aren't backwards. Not always.

Most of the time they are just misfortune.

I was surprised by Captain reaction to the crash scene. He could see that it had been a major incident by just standing by the burned woods. But unlike with the meteor impact the vessel had carved it's path through the woods.






Probably the super heated air ignited the woods. Thing is those trees are full of water, and they are not easy to ignite. You'll have dry them for weeks, but something superheated could ignite their surfaces, although not burn through the whole trunk.

Dr Hynek did find elevated radiation as he scanned the area, but unlike real scientist he didn't bark out the readings. What is not clear is that was the army there before they arrived or did they come out from the woods for Hynek to witness the covered object.

He explained to the family that it might be a meteor, but in that turn he should have also explained that they found a melted crystallised object buried in the ground. And that it could have been a part of anything. If there was a passanger, it could have got out from the shell, before it completely infused itself in the ground. But also that melted bit could had been part of the broken apart vessel, and what the military had covered under the tarpaulins could had been the pieces.

In the last episode we saw what small plane crash landing looks like. In the news we have seen numerous times how the planes come apart in the impact, and that the crash field is usually a very long, elongated circle.

The second witness to the case had been submitted to the psychiatric unit, and like many close encounter witnesses, she claimed that the creature showed her the future. In other words she is talking about telepathic projection, instead of a history download. Maybe the visitor was panicking and therefore projecting something unreal, like for example "the end of all things."

She also claimed that MiB's were scared. Scared of what? The exposure or the manhunt?

General Harding surely wasn't impressed by Cpt Quinn's inability to handle the situation. If he would had been a real military man, he would had found a solution to calm the situation, before the National Guard comes into the play.

So, why not use those army men to cordon off the area, conduct a proper search and a possible rescue?

Dr Hynek did made a brilliant experiment by luring the horned owl into the scene. But, thing about the owls is that they've also been reported in the UFO sites and they've something to do with the alien agenda. What we don't understand and what is controversial to the case is that the own was making sounds, and the witnesses reported the contact being silent.






Did the MiB acquire the traveller and transported it to safety before the army and its investigators arrived? Unlike the one seen in the crash scene, the man near the store looks like human and his face wasn't covered.

General Harding certainly was pleased after the Owl reveal, and he claimed that "it's always not for nothing. Not any more." Maybe the MiB works for him. Maybe they are aliens. Whatever they are, they know. It surprised me however that they killed the second witness.

Final surprise was that they transported the vessel probably to Wright Patterson Base, at the infamous Hangar 18, where the BlueBook office is situated. It didn't look it had made it all the way across the country to the Area 51/S4, as there was woods around the airbase

Could the melted meteor been an ejected power core?


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Agent J or Agent K?



More of K than J.


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## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Coming over here God knows where and crash landing among the savages, cannot be on top of the list for the interstellar travellers.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: S01E02 - The Flatwoods Monster
> 
> 
> 
> This is the original case. Also if you check it out, you'll see the drawing on the monster, depicted as half owl, half man. In the recent history Bethesda's abysmally received Fallout76 also features this particular paranormal creature.
> 
> _About 7:15 p.m. on September 12, 1952, at Flatwoods, a little village in the hills of West Virginia, some youngsters were playing football on the school playground. Suddenly they saw a fiery UFO streak across the sky and, apparently, land on a hilltop of the nearby Bailey Fisher farm. The youths ran to the home of Mrs. Kathleen May, who provided a flashlight and accompanied them up the hill. In addition to Mrs. May, a local beautician, the group included her two sons, Eddie 13, and Freddie 14, Neil Nunley 14, Gene Lemon 17, and Tommy Hyer and Ronnie Shaver, both 10, along with Lemon’s dog._
> 
> _There are myriad, often contradictory versions of what happened next, but UFO writer Gray Barker was soon on the scene and wrote an account for Fate magazine based on tape-recorded interviews. He found that the least emotional account was provided by Neil Nunley, one of two youths who were in the lead as the group hastened to the crest of the hill. Some distance ahead was a pulsing red light. Then, suddenly, Gene Lemon saw a pair of shining, animal-like eyes, and aimed the flashlight in their direction._
> 
> _The light revealed a towering "man-like" figure with a round, red "face" surrounded by a "pointed, hood-like shape." The body was dark and seemingly colorless, but some would later say it was green, and Mrs. May reported drape-like folds. The monster was observed only momentarily, as suddenly it emitted a hissing sound and glided toward the group. Lemon responded by screaming and dropping his flashlight, whereupon everyone fled._
> 
> _The group had noticed a pungent mist at the scene and afterward some were nauseated. A few locals, then later the sheriff and a deputy (who came from investigating a reported airplane crash), searched the site but "saw, heard and smelled nothing." The following day A. Lee Stewart, Jr., from the Braxton Democrat discovered "skid marks" in the roadside field, along with an "odd, gummy deposit" -- traces attributed to the landed "saucer" (Barker 1953). __The Flatwoods UFO Monster - CSI_
> 
> I find it super intriguing that the plane was leaving behind a contrail of smoke and super heated particles. Almost as if it had come in at wrong angle and lost whatever shield it'd left during the atmospheric entry. You could see that there was no real weather phenomenon during that night, and therefore the crash could not be depicted to be caused by for example a lightening strike.
> 
> Not even if it was a sprite. Although we don't know that for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First time you see the 'monster,' you almost can assume that it's a visitor wearing some sort of suit. Some files has been claiming that the suit that the greys are wearing over their bodies is biotechnical. Their eyes are covered with lenses that are said to have lead US to develop the Nightvision technology back in the fifties, issuing it out at sixties to the soldiers going into the Vietnam War.
> 
> It is however incredible that one can survive a burning entry, crash land, start a forest fire and walk out from the vehicle on your own. We humans would be confused and certainly shocked, but we don't know for sure if the Flatwoods Monster was anything like that. Surely they must have the "Fight or Flight" reaction that Cpt Quinn was mention.
> 
> I kind of loved that the Flatwood citizens had an adverse reaction and they were ready to put up a fight with the bloody alien. Surely West Virginia is a hill billy area, but the people living there aren't backwards. Not always.
> 
> Most of the time they are just misfortune.
> 
> I was surprised by Captain reaction to the crash scene. He could see that it had been a major incident by just standing by the burned woods. But unlike with the meteor impact the vessel had carved it's path through the woods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably the super heated air ignited the woods. Thing is those trees are full of water, and they are not easy to ignite. You'll have dry them for weeks, but something superheated could ignite their surfaces, although not burn through the whole trunk.
> 
> Dr Hynek did find elevated radiation as he scanned the area, but unlike real scientist he didn't bark out the readings. What is not clear is that was the army there before they arrived or did they come out from the woods for Hynek to witness the covered object.
> 
> He explained to the family that it might be a meteor, but in that turn he should have also explained that they found a melted crystallised object buried in the ground. And that it could have been a part of anything. If there was a passanger, it could have got out from the shell, before it completely infused itself in the ground. But also that melted bit could had been part of the broken apart vessel, and what the military had covered under the tarpaulins could had been the pieces.
> 
> In the last episode we saw what small plane crash landing looks like. In the news we have seen numerous times how the planes come apart in the impact, and that the crash field is usually a very long, elongated circle.
> 
> The second witness to the case had been submitted to the psychiatric unit, and like many close encounter witnesses, she claimed that the creature showed her the future. In other words she is talking about telepathic projection, instead of a history download. Maybe the visitor was panicking and therefore projecting something unreal, like for example "the end of all things."
> 
> She also claimed that MiB's were scared. Scared of what? The exposure or the manhunt?
> 
> General Harding surely wasn't impressed by Cpt Quinn's inability to handle the situation. If he would had been a real military man, he would had found a solution to calm the situation, before the National Guard comes into the play.
> 
> So, why not use those army men to cordon off the area, conduct a proper search and a possible rescue?
> 
> Dr Hynek did made a brilliant experiment by luring the horned owl into the scene. But, thing about the owls is that they've also been reported in the UFO sites and they've something to do with the alien agenda. What we don't understand and what is controversial to the case is that the own was making sounds, and the witnesses reported the contact being silent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did the MiB acquire the traveller and transported it to safety before the army and its investigators arrived? Unlike the one seen in the crash scene, the man near the store looks like human and his face wasn't covered.
> 
> General Harding certainly was pleased after the Owl reveal, and he claimed that "it's always not for nothing. Not any more." Maybe the MiB works for him. Maybe they are aliens. Whatever they are, they know. It surprised me however that they killed the second witness.
> 
> Final surprise was that they transported the vessel probably to Wright Patterson Base, at the infamous Hangar 18, where the BlueBook office is situated. It didn't look it had made it all the way across the country to the Area 51/S4, as there was woods around the airbase
> 
> Could the melted meteor been an ejected power core?


About the only thing this show does well is the production , pretty good early 50s setting.
Otherwise , so far, the teleplays have been ham fisted with the feel of first year film school projects.
Direction seems indifferent , such that a good cast seems dispirited , Aidan Gillen even seems to be looking around … 'what exactly am I supposed to be saying or doing here?'....
I do like the in-your-face goofiness of the Air Force pulling  a bald face conspiracy with the Russians lurking in a out of nowhere manner on the edges.


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## ctg

Spoiler: S01E03 - The Lubbock Lights









This case has a wiki entry:



> The *Lubbock Lights* were an unusual formation of lights seen over the city of Lubbock, Texas, from August–September 1951. The Lubbock Lights incident received national publicity and is regarded as one of the first great UFO cases in the United States. The Lubbock Lights were investigated by the U.S. Air Force in 1951. The Air Force initially believed the lights were caused by a type of bird called a plover, but eventually concluded that the lights "weren't birds... but they weren't spaceships...the [Lubbock Lights] have been positively identified as a very commonplace and easily explainable natural phenomenon." However, to maintain the anonymity of the scientist who had provided the explanation, the Air Force refrained from providing any details regarding their explanation for the lights.


 Lubbock Lights - Wikipedia

It is interesting that back in the days this happened, they already had UFO skeptics toting about the "Government Coverup." Sure it has happened many times since, but if you ask the officials, there has never been anything to cover up. Nothing to lie about, because we are alone in this universe and it would be impossible to receive visitations, because of the "enormous distances."

In this case you not only have the radar returns, but they also have multiple witnesses to the case. The bigger case is that there was also enormous blackout. Although there is nothing to confirm it. Nothing that I can find with quick googling.






That care and the whole electrified man touching Dr Hynek seems to be dramatised. It's just we don't know for sure. But if that car, somehow is even remotely real it looks as if the UFO tried to grab and whisk it to their ship, probably the same way they lift cattle for the mutilations. But there is absolute no talk about the tractor beams or even that they possible to do these days.

The proof of concept tractor beams that we have are so small that they wouldn't be feasable for causing the damage on the car. The local sheriff claimed that he "cannot explain it all." At 1951 he wouldn't had seen Roddenberry's Star Trek or Lucas Star Wars.  He could had read about it in the Amazing Tales or other pulp SF in the circulation. It's just that I doubt he would be reading them as he stroke me as a mainstream man.

The problem is that the Captain Quinn maintains the cover-up profile and he was straight away complaining that "...there's too many witnesses." You cannot silence them all. You might be able to terrorise them, but not silence.

You see the image at above and you cannot possibly give it an explanation, because even today you'd have hard time doing it. You could go with the drone swarm, but back in 51, no drones. The professor who came to give Hynek and Quinn the picture, claimed that it was plovers that was lit up by the street lights.

What a load of bollocks. Can plovers fly around 200 kph and look like humongous, at least 10 metres in size, as you can see in the picture at above?






If there was a blackout, then how they were lit up? And why we don't see this same phenomenon happening annually, if not monthly? Also wouldn't one of those witnesses had claimed that they looked a bit like the birds, proving proof for the bird theory.

It's just his explanation doesn't provide any glues on why that car is looking a melted mud cake. Nothing can. Well, nothing that was real at that time. The intriguing thing is that back in those days the cars were heavy and the plates were thick instead of thin. So, there is a lot of mass that has to bend and malform. 

I liked that Hynek and Quinn went out into the fields, to look for lights in the sky, when blackout happened in the street that MiB's had visited. To me it seemed that MiB are the dramatised part of the Project Blue Book. So, after last weeks episode I did a bit of research into the subject, and what is surprising is that MiB today haven't changed. They still drive those old school cars and they are all wearing black fedoras.

I liked even more that Hynek was trapped inside the car during the incident and he couldn't provide an explanation to the lights. This time showing clearly as the above evidence shot.






The airport controller said that "there hasn't been any blackouts before. Not until this week and it happened twice." If you also noticed there was no noise. Nothing to indicated propellers or jet-engines. On top of everything the general Harding went with the experimental delta-wing explanation, proving more proof for the cover-up story.

We can understand why they are doing it, because having the alien technology gives the US a certain edge over the others. But if I understand things correctly they are drawing blank on replicating some of the technology and they need to come out with the disclosure so that they can get the public ideas.

It didn't surprise me that Dr Hynek's conclusions looked like mine.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



Average Joe Citizen wouldn't fall for that scrap sheet metal photo of the "V-WIng" top secret experimental aircraft as an explanation for the Lubbock Lights. How could the Air Force brass expect a scientist to accept their explanation?


Even more unbelievable -- did people actually think that a plywood shack purchased from their local hardware store would serve as an "atomic bomb shelter"?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Even more unbelievable -- did people actually think that a plywood shack purchased from their local hardware store would serve as an "atomic bomb shelter"?



Yeah, they did. It's right at around that time, when you get the duck and cover, and all the other iconic things. Build yourself nuclear fallout shelter the same thing. Remember it's around five, six years after the WW2. Two and half to three years from the Roswell crash.


----------



## REBerg

Fallout shelter -- doubtful maybe' atomic bomb blast, heat, radiation, debris, fire shelter?  I guess 21st century plywood just isn't as tough as it was back in the 1950s. At least Mrs. Hynek got her shack on sale.


----------



## Ray Pullar

In nineteen eighties Britain, the government recommended hiding under the kitchen or dining-table, with an internal door walling a side, like a shelter made by seven-year-old children.  It featured in an official civil defence booklet  called PROTECT AND SURVIVE.


----------



## -K2-

Just for the record (for those unfamiliar with such things)... Duck and cover, plywood shelters, getting under a table or close to a wall has nothing to do with surviving a blast, fallout and so on.  There are a lot of stages to a detonation, one being "the flash."  If you're close, there is nothing you can do.  However, out past a certain distance you can avoid the flash and the effects of being blinded by light or debris, and having that debris imbed in you.

Something as minimal as a piece of cardboard can help, a lot (naturally, bigger, thicker, denser is better).






K2


----------



## Anthoney

In Hawaii they still had us doing duck and cover and hide under our desk drills, when I was a kid.


----------



## ctg

Anthoney said:


> In Hawaii they still had us doing duck and cover and hid under our desk drills, when I was a kid.



Did they also showed you guys those cheesy films?



Spoiler: 1951 Survival Under Atomic Attack


----------



## Anthoney

Various different films.  The ones I saw then were made for 1st and 2nd grades.  The duck and cover one had a nice little jingle that went with it.  Little school kids walking to school, boom an atomic bomb goes off.  Jump in the shallow ditch next to the road and cover your head with your hands (and I might add, kiss your ass goodbye).


----------



## ctg

Anthoney said:


> The duck and cover one had a nice little jingle that went with it. Little school kids walking to school, boom an atomic bomb goes off.



You mean like this Bert the Turtle film?



Spoiler: The classic 1951 Duck and Cover film











It is so hard for us to believe that anyone back in those days, after the bombs fell, would have believed them. Kids least likely as before teen years, they are super clever. It is also interesting that in this episode Hynek's son showed a great interest on what he's dad is doing. Mum's fallout shelter was the least interesting thing. 

I cannot blame him because I would have been the same. To me anything they did was interesting. More so than anything they gave us in school. To us, living under Russian threat, just next to our border and not very far from the Chernobyl, they showed a very few propaganda films. 

The interesting thing about that is The Project Blue Book was a US government attempt on the UFO propaganda. I believe that they got really scared at some point and they decided to close the whole project, with the infamous claim that "they're not real."

Sure there are cases that can be explained and has to be explain, but in the documents, they also mention those 700 cases that they couldn't explain. I don't believe that any of the mainstream media picked up on that fact. Not until very recently, when, to be honest, because of the internet, the cover up is starting to break, and they cannot deny that there are something's that have no conventional explanation ... or they do, but it cannot be talked about, because of the taboo.

These days they cannot even try to brainwash people with their films, as our society wouldn't take it. They would be laughed at and ridiculed in every news outlet. So, today's policy is to keep it all hush-hush as much as you can.

It's just like those witnesses Hynek and Quinn interviewed, people aren't afraid any more. Just like it was very recently with the pilots seeing something (a meteor) over Irish sea, or that even more perplexing case at California, where two plane pilots observed a light phenomenom and it got flacked up all the way to the NORAD. And they couldn't explain it either.

Either because they didn't know or because they were talking about known unknown and it was classified so that all they could do was to shrug their shoulders and plead fifth.


----------



## Ray Pullar

Blue Book was disbanded by USAF later in nineteen sixty-nine after the publication in January of the Edward Condon Committee final report which detailed many sightings and investigations by BB and civilian groups like NICAP (1400 pages worth) and concluded that as nothing of scientific value had emerged
the government should abandon further studies.


----------



## REBerg

Anthoney said:


> Various different films.  The ones I saw then were made for 1st and 2nd grades.  The duck and cover one had a nice little jingle that went with it.  Little school kids walking to school, boom an atomic bomb goes off.  Jump in the shallow ditch next to the road and cover your head with your hands (and I might add, kiss your ass goodbye).


Full instructions for those who may have been out on the town during the strike.


----------



## Al Jackson

2nd episode was the "The Flatwoods Monster" , man this series is the conflation of a lot of goofy stuff. Town goes murderously paranoid over a vague story.
Hynek explains it and get paid! That is what a 'fixer' does!
3rd episode "The Lubbock Lights" , town goes paranoid again, this happened but not with baseball bat brutes!
This time Hynek explains nothing , did he get paid?

I love the conceit that the Air Force is in a flatfooted conspiracy and does not trust Hynek , don't know why they just don't fire him!
And Russian agents who murder and build fall out shelters, can't beat that!!
Is there now yet another 'shadow' of the Hynek family?!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> And Russian agents who murder and build fall out shelters, can't beat that!!



What Russian agents? There was no Russia back in 1950's. Only Soviet Union. What are you talking about?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> What Russian agents? There was no Russia back in 1950's. Only Soviet Union. What are you talking about?


Welpe , even then, Soviets were sometimes referred to as Russians now and then.


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Welpe , even then, Soviets were sometimes referred to as Russians now and then.



Can you please answer the question?


----------



## Ray Pullar

So much for From Russia with love.  JFK must have wondered where these SMERSH agents and Rosa Kleb came from.


----------



## ctg

Ray Pullar said:


> JFK must have wondered where these SMERSH agents and Rosa Kleb came from.



at 1951? He was doing third term as a congressman.


----------



## Ray Pullar

Fleming published the book in 1957 so Kennedy obviously read it afterwards.  It was written in the fifties and referenced CCCP by Russia.


----------



## Ray Pullar

Check dialog in Greta Garbo picture Ninotchka (MGM 1939).

"How are things in Moscow?"
"Very good.  The last mass trials were a great success.  There are going to be fewer but better Russians."

"A Russian!  I love Russians!  Comrade, I've been fascinated by your five-year plan for the last fifteen years."


----------



## ctg

Ray Pullar said:


> Check dialog in Greta Garbo picture Ninotchka (MGM 1939).
> 
> "How are things in Moscow?"
> "Very good. The last mass trials were a great success. There are going to be fewer but better Russians."
> 
> "A Russian! I love Russians! Comrade, I've been fascinated by your five-year plan for the last fifteen years."



Why are you quoting that in this one?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Can you please answer the question?



Susie was speaking Russian in the 2nd episode.


----------



## Al Jackson

O yeah

UFOer Donald Keyhoe gets a gun stuck in his mouth by the CIA? , I guess....
Loved it!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Susie was speaking Russian in the 2nd episode.



Then that would make her a spy this close to the MJ-12 program, but she could also have a origins in the Soviets. Before she's seen with the handler, you can also assume she's one. But, why would they target Dr Hynek?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Then that would make her a spy this close to the MJ-12 program, but she could also have a origins in the Soviets. Before she's seen with the handler, you can also assume she's one. But, why would they target Dr Hynek?



Tell ya this show is long on wishes and short on facts.


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Tell ya this show is long on wishes and short on facts.



Why?


----------



## Ray Pullar

ctg said:


> Why are you quoting that in this one?



I thought you wanted to.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Why?




  Donald Keyhoe gets a gun stuck in his mouth ! That happened really?!!!!!!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Donald Keyhoe gets a gun stuck in his mouth ! That happened really?!!!!!!



Yeah, why wouldn't it? What is your point? The man was believer, but not as wimpy as some. There has many other from the military that shared the point-of-view and they've been threatened throughout the modern time about speaking certain things.

Why do you think there are so many death-bed confessions?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Yeah, why wouldn't it? What is your point? The man was believer, but not as wimpy as some. There has many other from the military that shared the point-of-view and they've been threatened throughout the modern time about speaking certain things.
> 
> Why do you think there are so many death-bed confessions?


Are you saying that really happened?


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Are you saying that really happened?



I find the scenario very plausible and I certainly don't feel that I need to find the facts, when you've presented nothing. I've also watched a number of death-bed confessions to know that sort of thing happened.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> I find the scenario very plausible and I certainly don't feel that I need to find the facts, when you've presented nothing. I've also watched a number of death-bed confessions to know that sort of thing happened.


Amazing!!


----------



## Cathbad

ctg said:


> What Russian agents? There was no Russia back in 1950's. Only Soviet Union. What are you talking about?


*Countries That Made Up the Former USSR  *

Of the fifteen constituent republics of the USSR, three of these countries declared and were granted independence a few months preceding the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. The remaining twelve did not become independent until the USSR fell completely on December 26, 1991.

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus 
Estonia - Granted independence in September 1991 and is not a member of the CIS.
Georgia  - Withdrew of the CIS in May 2005.
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia - Granted independence in September 1991 and is not a member of the CIS.
Lithuania - Granted independence in September 1991 and is not a member of the CIS.
Moldova - Formerly known as Moldavia.
*Russia*
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan - Associate member of the CIS.
Ukraine Participating member of the CIS.
Uzbekistan

Just  sayin.


----------



## Anthoney

To sort of quote George Orwell, Russia was always first among equals in the USSR.


----------



## Droflet

That's it for me. Saw the latest ep and there's just nothing really happening. So I'm out.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E04 - Project Paper Clip 



This is a wiki entry: 

*



			Operation Paperclip
		
Click to expand...

*


> was a secret program of the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA) largely carried out by Special Agents of Army CIC, in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians, such as Wernher von Braun and his V-2 rocket team, were taken from Germany to America for U.S. government employment, primarily between 1945 and 1959. Many were former members, and some were former leaders, of the Nazi Party.[1][2]
> 
> The primary purpose for Operation Paperclip was U.S. military advantage in the Soviet–American Cold War, and the Space Race. The Soviet Union were more aggressive in forcibly recruiting more than 2,200 German specialists—a total of more than 6,000 people including family members—with Operation Osoaviakhim during one night on October 22, 1946.[3]
> 
> The Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) established the first secret recruitment program, called Operation Overcast, on July 20, 1945, initially "to assist in shortening the Japanese war and to aid our postwar military research".[4] The term "Overcast" was the name first given by the German scientists' family members for the housing camp where they were held in Bavaria.[5] In late summer 1945, the JCS established the JIOA, a subcommittee of the Joint Intelligence Community, to directly oversee Operation Overcast and later Operation Paperclip.[6] The JIOA representatives included the army's director of intelligence, the chief of naval intelligence, the assistant chief of Air Staff-2 (air force intelligence), and a representative from the State Department.[7] In November 1945, Operation Overcast was renamed Operation Paperclip by Ordnance Corps (United States Army) officers, who would attach a paperclip to the folders of those rocket experts whom they wished to employ in America.[5]
> 
> In a secret directive circulated on September 3, 1946, President Truman officially approved Operation Paperclip and expanded it to include one thousand German scientists under "temporary, limited military custody"


 Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia

It surprised me to learn that most of the people knew nothing about the operation until much, much later, when VanBraun was brought on the tellie to answer on the question in regards of the Moon Rocket. Thing is, US so called won the war and they went on culturally toting it around as if it was everything. But at the same time they said nothing to the public that they'd captured German scientists, or "saved them from Soviets" AKA "Russians."

But in regards of the UFOs this goes way deeper and you'll soon arrive to the section that claims German's developed a UFO as a black program during the war. You can also find spy footage that shows them experimenting with a saucer type. 

If you follow down that track you also learn that Germany was super interested about the Antartica and that they a submarine base hidden under the ice. According to the history, the US launched a full fleet expedition in the area after the war, and following the trail of nazi's living in the South America. That expedition was called operation Highjump and the stories around it are a wee bit of crazy as you can see from this compilation video.



Spoiler











He went on to claim to the public that ",the next enemy we'll face is going to be able to fly from pole-to-pole in matter of moments." He and some expedition members described that fast-movers decimated the US air power as they emerged from holes in the glacier, seemingly coming from underground. 

Although this happened at 46 - 47, the claim goes that at the end result of numerous saucer sightings, there was a demonstration at above Washington DC at 1952.  The claim goes that this was done by the Nazi fleet, but if you go ask Pentagon about it, they don't know the answer.






Dr Hynek surely was more perplexed by his sighting then his son playing hide-and-seek in the fallout shelter. It was as if he was as captured as certain electrician during the course of Close Encounters of Third Kind.   

I wouldn't blame him as if you check out the news papers during that time, you'll see that saucers and UFO's were popping in the headlines more often than these days. In our time, we mostly ignore them as they seem to be part of the normality and usually they are explainable. 

Except the cases that cannot, like Hynek's sighting and the cattle mutilation case at the form. The farmer described that "the thing just hovered there" and "it killed 20 cows." It wasn't a surprise that these two fellows were there. 






It's just if the farmer described the cigar shaped craft hovering over the farm, it could not have been a chemical rocket, and modern people would have straight away questioned Cpt Quinn's motivation on the investigation. Even Elon Musk's rockets don't hover, they come down controllably and indefinitely. 

There would not have been a need to crash the Nellis AFB gates, if he'd realised what a fool he were. But that's the thing, back in those days, most of the people would not have seen the space rockets as we have. They would not have had the knowledge. But we do. So in atypical fashion, through the jail to not even shake hands with the great Von Braun, because America won the war. 

Man, I laughed out loud. So funny. 

I laughed louder when Quinn revealed he'd been suspended. Oh man ... 

Then Mrs Hynek feel in the honey trap. If her friend is russian agent, she dropped thing without ever realising that she'd compromised the National Security. To be honest I don't know what would I have thought in Susie's shoes, but I do know that USSR and Russia has taken a great interest in the subject, and more so in the USOs - Unknown Submerged Objects.

USAF might have stopped investigating, but even today, if you're in the Navy, you are ordered to report everything. Including UFOs and USOs. God help you if you miss the report. Officially however, nothing ever happens at sea.  

The interesting bit is that by following Mrs Hynek Susie was able to infiltrate the Wright Patterson AFB. If you'll know the base, you also know that they house Building 18 connected through underground to Hanger 23 AKA The Foreign Material Exploitation engineering division. Some could call it as the heart centre of the US military investigations. Also as a place where they first time brought the Roswell crash vehicle. 






What a lovely grass circle. I can try to explain how they did it, but back in the 1951-52, no way. I also would wonder why you'd do it on a grass and not in the crop field. The intriguing detail about these formations is that they go back in centuries and they have also been found on snow.  






"That's not human, right?" Captain Quinn, if you had a brain, you'd realised you'd been lied. It is also not a resus monkey. I loved that at the end, they pulled the Aero (saucer) from the hangar and strapped an unwilling test pilot in it, before they send it away in front of General Harding's eyes. 

But Aero isn't same as the vehicle that disappeared at the end. It's just a petrol engine powered supersized drone.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



So, was that the _Timeless_ mothership or lifeboat that dematerialized in the end? 


This show is more science fiction than history. While the objective of the real Project Blue Book may have been to explain each case in the most mundane way possible, the objective of the series is to offer the most fantastic explanation.
I'm OK with that.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> While the objective of the real Project Blue Book may have been to explain each case in the most mundane way possible, the objective of the series is to offer the most fantastic explanation.



Yeah, I agree. But when you have the unexplainable, soon the fantasy becomes the reality. The History Channel took a big move by doing this and not focusing on one case, but mixing quickly in several things. Some that has been steady supply for the SF and the pulp fiction for ages. 

They could had done something else, instead of venturing into this muddled pie. It is highly ambitious to put this out and do it with the style. To most of us these cases are unknown, and you'll had to do research into the cases, otherwise you'll have to suspend your disbelief. Not that you'll have to do it anyways, because of the association with the UFOs.


----------



## Al Jackson

Man! This show is great!
I mean von Braun with a what? Field Effect / Hover Craft!
Crashing the gates at Red Stone Arsenal!
Soviet agents doing , god knows what!
A gray in a tank!
Plus they stuck a gun in Donald Keyhoe mouth!
The X files never got this crazy!
Love it!
Where to next? The Moon!


----------



## Al Jackson

It is said that Christopher Columbus did not discover America first , he discovered it Best!
Welp the guy on the right is Ray Palmer who discovered Flying Saucers Best!
(the other guy is Richard Shaver who Palmer also made famous.)
Thinking Ray Palmer should turn up on the Project Blue Book series.


----------



## Al Jackson

Ray Palmer the man who invented flying saucers.


Ray Palmer, the man who invented flying saucers – – by John A. Keel


----------



## Anthoney

Are we sure he's not an alien?  I think he's an alien.


----------



## Al Jackson

Anthoney said:


> Are we sure he's not an alien?  I think he's an alien.


Ray was in an auto accident at the age of 7 , operation on his back was botched and left him 4 ft tall with a hunched back.  
He as an odd man.


----------



## clovis-man

I've given up trying to ascribe any factual basis to the "stories" of this series. That said, I'll probably watch it just for entertainment. At least until it gets too ridiculous.


----------



## ctg

clovis-man said:


> At least until it gets too ridiculous.



What do you mean?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E05 - Foo Fighters



I guess it has now become a tradition for me to do a abit research on the subject. Here's a thing, about a year ago the tic-tac UFOs came out, when the Pentagon released two incident videos to the public and allowed them to know about the Advanced Ariel Threat Phenomenom. 

Here's an explanation to those two videos, told by the strike commander. 






To us, those are equivalent to modern day Foo Fighters. Back in the forties they were different,





A lot of people believed that they were part of the German Wonder Weapons program. Who knows maybe they were always those Tic-Tacs. Who they belong to, we don't know. The US and Russia might have a clue, but they are not telling that to us.

About the episode, it surprised me that the Air Force took Mrs Hynek's night encounter so seriously that they sent two general in Hynek's home to talk about the matter. It is like first time in the history when two Generals are needed to talk about the civil law enforcement issue.

Why is then Cpt Quinn ended up being the one to investigate Susie's case? More so, he seemingly couldn't figure out that Susie were listening her target via radio as he fell straight to her excuse. It is as if he doesn't have all the gears in place or then the USAF didn't wanted the target to know that they know, as it should be in the counter-espionage cases. 

The idea behind that is the target will give you more information longer they remain operational, and thus allow you to catch the whole gang behind the operation. The truth is, they should had supported Alan and handed him everything he needs to do the investigation. Not that he was concerned about Mimi's safety as he went straight back to investigate the numbers lead that made him to discovery photos. 






This is not the first time, as the man who took the shot for the I Want To Believe poster, also took some photos from celestial objects when alledgely took a trip to outer space. It's just in 1951 nobody knew what Earth would look from Outer Space. 

It was a bigger surprise that Hynek's investigation lead straight back to Mimi's incident. I guess he's really concerned but not concerned enough to stay home to make sure Fuller's not going come back to mess with the wife. 

Why is that Mimi never told Alan that Fuller wanted to have a word? 






For a man that USAF has discharged as crazy, Randall Kavanaugh seemed to have full faculties. He might have become obsessed with the UFOs, but that could happen to anyone who deals with the unexplainable.

When Hynek asked: "Do you know Fuller?" Randall asked, who and got explanation back, "He had similar experiences," without explaining that he'd been taken. The strange thing is that none of the Foo Fighter incidents talks about the abduction cases, and MJ12 couldn't draw a conclusion on Fuller's escape to being an abduction victim.

If you look into those cases, you'll soon find the victims talking that they have been taken from places that has been locked, and that aliens seemingly be able to materialise inside those places to take their victims. Some even claim they can phase through solid matter.

Thing is from very first episode they have been hinting about abductions. Back in the 1951 nobody had a word for those things, and yet, all the men who had seen the Foo Fighters hinted about the same thing. Like Fuller some of the people have tried escaping, even fighting them, but as it was in the Spielberg's Taken, there is nothing that you can do. 






Hynek's explanation to the Foo Fighter club members is very believable, and it is most likely the case in many things that people see similar situations, but it does not explain the Foo Fighter phenomenon pictures that you'll see in the second video.

It's crazy to think that Fuller's chase then ended up with self immolation. And that it happened after he saw one of Hynek's strange symbols, he'd received from the MiB. But in the real life, that is what some people have done to stop them from taking them again.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



Why were the generals so intent on neutralizing Fuller? Did they not realize that he was not the only pilot out there who had a story to tell?
Was Fuller special? In addition to the ability to tune into radio waves apparently common to all alien-altered members of the Foo Fighters Club, Fuller could disappear in a flash from the top of a radio tower, start a car with a hand wave and stand motionless while he burned to death. Alien superpowers?
I'm ready for an alien abduction upgrade; but please, no probing!


----------



## Al Jackson

Man! Bring back von Braun! What happened to Keyhoe?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Why were the generals so intent on neutralizing Fuller? Did they not realize that he was not the only pilot out there who had a story to tell?



I don't know why they are so hellbent, other than they're trying to keep everything secret. 



REBerg said:


> Was Fuller special?



Maybe. There are a very few common characteristic between abductee types. Back in the 1951, they knew none. But since then, the boffins have identified that if you have green eyes, being lefty and/or having a RH negative blood type might get you abducted more easily than a common man. I don't think Fuller had any of them, or the producers didn't think to bring it up.



REBerg said:


> In addition to the ability to tune into radio waves apparently common to all alien-altered members of the Foo Fighters Club, Fuller could disappear in a flash from the top of a radio tower, start a car with a hand wave and stand motionless while he burned to death. Alien superpowers?



LOL. Yeah, I wish it would be real, but no, aliens don't you superpowers. If God blessed you with powers, you have to learn to use them. In the meanwhile you might want to


----------



## clovis-man

ctg said:


>



I just realized that the officer on the right played the part of the wimpy counselor in Orange is the New Black.


----------



## ctg

clovis-man said:


> I just realized that the officer on the right played the part of the wimpy counselor in Orange is the New Black.



Personally I think he has too gentle face, and expressions for a general. I don't think I've seen him scowling at all.


----------



## ctg

Does that general look awfully familiar? Also link to the Condon Report Condon Report, Sec V, Chapter 2: UFOs: 1947 - 1968 You scroll down and you'll see tables like this






26.94 % unidentified


----------



## Al Jackson

For Blue Book Fans there is a great book on Saucers.


----------



## Al Jackson

This show has been renewed for a 2nd season. 
That is good! 
I had my problems with this show in the beginning till I got with the program.
I love the heavy does of imagination they have applied, it is quite fun.
It should have a subtitle : *Project Blue Book Reimagined*.


----------



## REBerg

Al Jackson said:


> *Project Blue Book Reimagined*.


Exactly!


Spoiler: 1.06 The Green Fireballs



Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire!
Hynek  and Mimi, now officially members of Team MIB? These people are apparently working independently of both the Air Force and the Soviets. How much of the new arrangement will she spill to her Soviet spy friend?
I can't imagine what that object Hynek was given might be. I was thinking that it should have been checked for radioactivity before they handled it.
The manikins in the test town had a creepy attention to detail. As Capt. Quinn put it, "They're just gonna blow 'em up. Why do they need faces?"
One looked a lot like Mimi's friend.  Was that the manikin that was decapitated? I don't recall seeing how that happened.
I was not unhappy about the fate of Mimi's Mrs Kravitz-like nosy neighbor, Donna. May she rest in pieces.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Exactly!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 1.06 The Green Fireballs
> 
> 
> 
> Goodness, gracious, great balls of fire!
> Hynek  and Mimi, now officially members of Team MIB? These people are apparently working independently of both the Air Force and the Soviets. How much of the new arrangement will she spill to her Soviet spy friend?
> I can't imagine what that object Hynek was given might be. I was thinking that it should have been checked for radioactivity before they handled it.
> The manikins in the test town had a creepy attention to detail. As Capt. Quinn put it, "They're just gonna blow 'em up. Why do they need faces?"
> One looked a lot like Mimi's friend.  Was that the manikin that was decapitated? I don't recall seeing how that happened.
> I was not unhappy about the fate of Mimi's Mrs Kravitz-like nosy neighbor, Donna. May she rest in pieces.



Episode before last best line: "Hynek, is that Slavic name?" Right on! Red Scare on steroids!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E06 - The Green Fireballs



UFO's and Nukes, the one thing that has been consistent ever since the testing started. It is like they're really concerned about the technology and over the decades it has culminated on the point that they can take nukes out, disable them completely and there is nothing we can do about it. 

As humanity we are about to beginning of the information age, with AI revolution coming over the horizon, but back then everything was ruled by the big boys, the nukes. After the Great War it was easy to continue the propaganda and even accelerate it, as all those demons media had conjured in people minds were still so very fresh. 

More so around the time that The Great Fireballs re-entered into the history, because if you look down in the history, they've been here before. But about them and the nukes, it is never going to stop, because we are still in that era and only two minutes to the midnight.

Here's an article from History own channel that explains the backgrounds of this case: https://www.history.com/news/ufos-green-fireballs-nuclear-facilities-new-mexico



> On February 29, 1949, the Los Alamos, New Mexico _Skyliner_ newspaper ran a piece on what it referred to, in typical newspaper parlance, as “flying saucers”—and a possible conspiracy around them:
> 
> “Los Alamos now has flying green lights. These will ‘o wisps seen generally about 2 a.m., have alerted the local constabulary and their presence is being talked about in Santa Fe bars. But local wheels deny any official knowledge of the sky phenomena. Each one passes the buck to another.”
> 
> The story ended with, “Have you seen a green light lately?”
> 
> In fact, a great many had, and would continue to do so—enough to prompt _TIME_ magazine, in November 1951, to publish a piece on the phenomenon called “Great Balls of Fire.” What makes the multiple sightings of “flying green lights” in New Mexico in 1948 and onward such a significant chapter in UFO history is exactly that—there were _multiple_ sightings.


https://www.history.com/news/ufos-green-fireballs-nuclear-facilities-new-mexico

It didn't surprise me that the servicemen who saw the balls, fell on their knees and started praying for their lives, because they just came out from the dramatic last moment, still scared for their lives. We, humans, are a sum of our emotions. For most of us there is nothing we can do about it and when the last moment occurs we often reach into our spiritual side. Even the atheist.

But here's the thing, if you look one of the Aztek's Great God, he is depicted sitting inside a rocket. Or flying vertically through atmosphere while holding the infamous manbag. Nobody still knows what the hell that thing is or even have a faintest clue, what it holds. It's just if you look that and several other artworks, some very famous, you'll fireballs, meaning exhaust fumes, or use of rocket engines in the atmosphere.

Earth is a gravity well, and because of it we have an life-saving atmosphere. The physics has shown that the rockets are an efficient way to travel inside that gravity well, and not all might have developed an ability to utilise magnetosphere for hovering. 

Over the time, if you look into the evidence of UFO's, they've developed their technology, and the UFO's have changed. Who knows if those green fireballs were heavy drones utilising rockets to move and hover over the test site?

I don't but it's my suspicion to be the case, instead of freaking meteors Mr Hynek was suggesting in the car. 






how many of them hovers and rotates in the air? But it kind of surprised me that Cpt Quinn had opted to go more towards the civilside even though they were travelling the army base. I didn't believe for a second Hynek's shot back in the air, bollocks.

What surprised me more that they jumped up to salute, when the Secretary of Defence entered into the room, even though it was obvious that he didn't wanted to interrupt anything. Why do that?



REBerg said:


> These people are apparently working independently of both the Air Force and the Soviets. How much of the new arrangement will she spill to her Soviet spy friend?



About the Soviets and the UFO's. Their Roswell Crash had not happened. The KGB didn't believe in the Ariel Phenomenom as their crash happened later. In the sixties. Ever since their intelligence service has been on top of the matter. 

The people who knows about this comes from those Number Cities, and they're often very smart and base their conclusions on the scientific stuff rather than us, on the hunch. The Russians are super serious. There is no doubt about that. And they take their intelligence business very seriously. Back then the KGB couldn't get it, because they were still under the leadership of the Father Sun. 

Internally the Communist killed all ideas and tried to base their culture on the scientific principals. Atheism was their way of life. So, while they suppressed the imagination, they lost the ability to dream. They couldn't understand what it takes to be a human.

Hence persestroika and the death of the USSR. 

UFO's however weren't denied and just like American's they developed their own researchers, who were similarly pressed by the Authorities as happened in the the land of the free. So, hurrah and freedom fries for everyone.

Thank God we are in this age, when we can somewhat talk about them and what they've done over the years. 






That tracking system was developed for the Atomic Tests. You can find it in the museums and it's very nice device to get footage from the visible light phenomenom, with filters it can go beyond the range, but it's nowhere as nice as anything we have these days. 

It's right thing for the work Dr Hynek imagined doing, before his PTSD's starting playing in his mind. Back then you had to be tough man and just get through it, mostly with the help of a bottle. What he didn't get was that he was again taken, and the MiB/Aliens used their tech to knock him down, render incapable for clear reasoning. 






When they showed second time to Dr Hynek, the lights made a similar noise to high pitch turbine engines. It was clear that they were manouvering through atmosphere and they were showing characteristic that these days we associate with the drones. There is no human being that can withstand those high-G turns or even make them without almost stopping in the air.

Yet they can. Even the saucers. 

Note that the blue saucers a few episodes back were silent.

It surprised me that Generals explanation was a "Soviet Device" that they used "to monitor the test sites." Bollocks. Cpt Quinn tried reasoning, without never really understanding the consequencies of his actions. He wanted a scientist, a man capable for a vision, with a mind that could decipher the unknown. Yet, he was readier to to eat Brass answer than believing his own partner.

Maybe that's why he wasn't invited to meeting with the MiB. Why is that they want Hynek to find answers, while the Generals want the information remain highly classified. The MIB ended the meeting by claiming "You have no idea about the man that you could be," almost as if he had met the other Hynek's in the future and in the parallel worlds. 

If you look into the UFO lore, you'll find device called Looking Glass or Yellow Book that can do that sort of thing and show the user possible futures. It is said to be thing that the aliens gave to President Eisenhower in their meeting. But we never know the whole truth, because it's classified.

All the notes, film, data that the Project BB made is classified. All we have is the actual book.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: Project BB podcast, Sons of Dr. J. Allen Hynek , Paul & Joel Hynek


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> It should have a subtitle : *Project Blue Book Reimagined*.



If you'll do FOIA on US gov UFO files, and you are successful with the request, they'll send you back a CERVIS record that look like this. 






All the US service members, especially Navy and Air Force are demanded to report UFO's and that same practice is happening all around the world. Dr Hynek didn't service under the Project Blue Book, as he was working under Project Sign. TBB was US government attempt to suppress the UFO phenomenom from the public. Some could say it was their PR effort. 

Maybe the truth was that the Authorities sh*t in the pants as they realised there was nothing they could do to these other worldly things. I mean back in the fifties they were so scared about the communists that they went through two wars, first Korea and later on in Vietnam that it was stupid. 

Maybe they thought back in the fifties that they shouldn't tell anyone that there was nothing they could do and the UFO's/MiB could do whatever they wanted, and if the public knew, they'd be in trouble. 

As it's a case today, they cannot admit on knowing anything on the subject, except through stuff like this. Maybe this is their disclosure and the stuff is real. All I know is that the records are real and they demand you to report if you see something. Especially if it's a case of UFOs.

So, if they need to alter the title, I'd like it to be *Project Blue Book - The Official Cover Up Story*


----------



## ctg

On the other side of the coin is this 






Why supress one and be puzzled by the other?


----------



## ctg

For those who don't believe me about the reporting orders, here's a clip from the USAF 10-206 manual





https://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/vi...FID581/pubs/af/10/afman10-206/afman10-206.pdf

Also here's Dr Hynek's 1977 radio interview on the subject. Note that you might want to avoid it, because in regards of the certain things it's highly spoilerfic.



Spoiler


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> If you'll do FOIA on US gov UFO files, and you are successful with the request, they'll send you back a CERVIS record that look like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the US service members, especially Navy and Air Force are demanded to report UFO's and that same practice is happening all around the world. Dr Hynek didn't service under the Project Blue Book, as he was working under Project Sign. TBB was US government attempt to suppress the UFO phenomenom from the public. Some could say it was their PR effort.
> 
> Maybe the truth was that the Authorities sh*t in the pants as they realised there was nothing they could do to these other worldly things. I mean back in the fifties they were so scared about the communists that they went through two wars, first Korea and later on in Vietnam that it was stupid.
> 
> Maybe they thought back in the fifties that they shouldn't tell anyone that there was nothing they could do and the UFO's/MiB could do whatever they wanted, and if the public knew, they'd be in trouble.
> 
> As it's a case today, they cannot admit on knowing anything on the subject, except through stuff like this. Maybe this is their disclosure and the stuff is real. All I know is that the records are real and they demand you to report if you see something. Especially if it's a case of UFOs.
> 
> So, if they need to alter the title, I'd like it to be *Project Blue Book - The Official Cover Up Story*



You mean to say the tabloid style rejiggering hype invention I find so entertaining for the show is actually the real facts?
If so that is cool!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> You mean to say the tabloid style rejiggering hype invention I find so entertaining for the show is actually the real facts?
> If so that is cool!



Based on the real facts. Thing is, after decades of the all the ridicule that been going in the US and world press, somebody put all the case files online and made a searchable database. The people who had been reporting or even given an interview, went and saw what they'd written on the case, and there are number of cases that shows the governt lie. 

They'd observed something like what we've seen in the small screen for a period of time, and the caseworker had put down meteors, even though the observer had watched the object making sharp high-g turns, without a sound or even being part of the larger group. 

I watched recently an interview made by two sheriffs with multiple decades of experience under their belt and they said the same thing. I then watched an interview of native american reserve police and they told the same thing. It even goes down to former military service members, who would like to talk about USOs, not just UFOs, but because it's classified and they feel responsible to not to talk, no talk. 

You look those redacted pages, and you think what on earth was so important to classify on a sighting report? 

We cannot talk about things because it's a taboo. Made by the Authorities.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 1.07 The Scoutmaster



Well, swamp gas really is explosive, and the Choctaws did practice head binding. Sometimes, a close encounter claim can be a bona fide hoax
Of course, that doesn't mean the Star People did not visit the Choctaws in the past. Hynek should have attempted to authenticate the cave drawings, especially that mysterious recurring diagram.
I'm not sure of the purpose served by Capt. Quinn's questioning of the Soviet spy, other than prove to the general that he is a badass interrogator and really, really hates those darn commies. I noticed that Hynek seemed much more concerned about staying in touch with Quinn than his poor, long-suffering wife.
I remain mystified about the object Hynek stashed away in his car trunk. It must be some type of power source considering that even enclosed in a toolbox, it ruined a perfectly good taillight.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E07 - The Scoutmaster



I had no recollection of this case or if I had it's one of those many of similar sort of cases that started appearing one after another. The History Channel had already prepared an article on this



> On a humid, August night in 1952, scoutmaster D.S. “Sonny” DesVergers emerged burned and barely coherent from a dense palmetto grove in the South Florida Everglades. He claimed he had encountered an unidentified flying object that discharged a fireball, which left him singed and barely able to see.
> 
> Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, chief UFO investigator for the U.S. Air Force, would later label the event “the best hoax in UFO history.” But the DesVergers incident remains one of the most intriguing cases from Project Blue Book, the Air Force’s now-declassified investigations into UFOs—because it wasn’t just a sighting incident, but one involving a purported attack. To this day, it’s still unsolved.
> 
> Cue appropriately spooky "X-Files" music.
> 
> A series of investigations conducted by the U.S. Air Force between 1952 and 1969, Project Blue Book was tasked with scientifically analyzing UFO-related incidents to determine whether they were a threat to national security. Some say the project was commissioned to find rational explanations for these mysterious phenomena, to help quell a growing Cold War-era public hysteria over unidentified objects in the sky. UFO fever reached such intensity that in April 1952, four months before the DesVergers incident, _LIFE_ magazine published a story called “Have We Visitors from Space?”


 https://www.history.com/news/ufo-encounter-florida-desvergers-scoutmaster-burned

Thing is, the close encounters of second kind is very similar story almost every single time, and for some reason there always seems to be water nearby. In this case they were near Balm Beach Florida, according to the History Channel article. The scoutmaster's reaction to case was believable as many would just unload their weapons and then get knocked down by the aliens. 

In some cases they go missing as it seemed in the scoutmaster's case. Think about Dr Hynek is that he started as a total sceptic and later on he appeared to be a total convert. He event attended several UFO conventions, talking about the cases, hinting about the Government Cover Up. 

If it's true than Mimi's espionage case is the highest catastrophe for the US High Command because it pierces so much of that classified material. Yet, nothing appeared in everywhere, and without knowing about the case, there's no confirming as it's buried under so many layers of security.



REBerg said:


> I'm not sure the purpose served by Capt. Quinn's interview questioning the Soviet spy, other than prove toe the general that he is a badass interrogator and really, really hates those darn commies.



That is very true, but it also fits the timeline and the culture. You had all those war movies, the Atomic Program churning out bombs, the ground tests, and then on top of that official propaganda and the Hollywood mixing together. I'd say he shows very well a stereotypical angry man of the 1950's. 

Although I expected that he would have tied the spy in the chair and we ready to bust his kneecaps with a baseball bat. the breakfast was a nice move. But the Soviet Spy was right Cpt Quinn was out of his depth.

Only he was babbling straight out about Quinn's job as if they'd been observing from the sidelines, and not got what they know through Mimi's pictures. If Cpt Quinn would be man of our day, he would have caught the spy on the moment he opened his mouth.

It was his fault that he pushed Quinn's buttons for knowing that US was full of tough men at the the time. That busted nose should had been enough of pain to keep his mouth shut and observe the counterpart. After all, he is facing the Marlboro Man. 

Maybe the spies aren't the smartest punch after all? 

What surprised me was that General Harding showed up as the spy handler. As if there was a deal between the Kremlin and the Pentagon already set in place back then. All of this points out to Gen Harding being a Deep State asset as well as MJ/12 member at 1950's. Was he always the Number 1?

Can you imagine the power that a man like him can have for decades?






The boys asked: "Do you work for that alien project ... The Project Blue Book?"

Hynek's answer was: "I study the Unknown Ariel Phenomenon." UAP. In 1952 they'd already changed their language to match the scientific term. To the common people they are UFO's, but if you talk to the goverment people, it's always a phenomenon. 

The boyscout sited after the meeting the story of star-people, without naming that the story came from the native americans and later on it was interpreted by the researchers to form the Ancient Gods, or Ancient Aliens theory. Funny as it is, why the cave-painting depicts an UFO using a tracktorbeam technology to suck the Scoutmaster in the vehicle? 






Well, I put it down to the artistic license that the History Channel is using in this production, but I really like that Hynek interviewed tribal chief next. In the 1950's the US was just beginning to unravel the bucket of information that is hidden in the landscape. 

Not that many people believed in those legends or even considered making highly successful books, not talking about television series on the subject. The thing that troubled me about the landing site was all the logs in the ground as they didn't match any sort of blast pattern. Instead, it was like they'd fallen on the ground.

I would have drawn out the swamp gas theory in Hynek's shoes as his job was to explain the unknown by the use of science. The Sheriff saw the same thing and for knowing the forensic science out went the alien theory and Starpeople became ridiculed. 

Except for us the "swamp gas theory" is a pop-culture reference to the MiB joke. The only problem was the missing Scoutmaster. How could he have explained the taken case. Back then Hynek couldn't have known that there was going to thousands of people that were going to be taken in the future. 

The common nominator between them are the Grey's, burnmarks, PTSDs, repressed memories, and the implants. Then the abductee brings out perfectly preserved elongated skull from the ground. Man, are the Crystal Skull's coming next?






Dr Hynek could not have found all of those? Could he? 

Dr Brian Forrester just last year came through with the independent study on these people and they are real. They started deforming skulls at very early age and the South America is littered with museums with the skulls. What is interesting is that originally these people came from the Black Sea area and they somehow travelled through Philippines, Northern Australia, through Pacific Ocean to settle at the coast of Peru, where you find the Nasca Lines. 

The theory claims that these people were high ranking individuals in Mayan and Aztec Culture's, maybe even working as Shamanic Leaders among the Native Americans. Do we know that for sure? No. There is no way to confirm the tales.

It's just some people think for some reason that they are Star People.


----------



## Al Jackson

Episodes since 4 have not been as over the top
5 "Foo Fighters" 
Hynek does some  'fixing' , tho, what he says to the Foo Fighters does not correlate very strongly with what it seen in the screen! 
6 "The Green Fireballs"
Hynek makes a paper report that is contrary to what he believes to  , seemingly , protect his own conspiracy!
7 "The Scoutmaster" They had to get hat famous 'Hynek' swamp gas in somewhere! The non-a-Russian double agent story was a shaggy dog story! O well I love that kind thing!
Best line , Ep 5, I think, "Hynek, that's a Slavic name, isn't it"? Great!

O yeah, Russian agents who are paranoid about being found out  have committed two outrageous crimes!!! Can't beat that with stick!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> They had to get hat famous 'Hynek' swamp gas in somewhere!












Al Jackson said:


> O yeah, Russian agents who are paranoid about being found out have committed two outrageous crimes!!! Can't beat that with stick!



The artistic license that they've taken this is almost equal to Vikings. I am pretty certain we never looked as cool as they have made the Vikings look in their hit series. And I really don't get why they've involved KGB with the Project Blue Book? What does that storyline serve?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> The artistic license that they've taken this is almost equal to Vikings. I am pretty certain we never looked as cool as they have made the Vikings look in their hit series. And I really don't get why they've involved KGB with the Project Blue Book? What does that storyline serve?



The Russians , if I was to guess, are in the mix because of von Braun and his secret stuff, which is the most blatant  oddity (among many) of the show. The Nazis with saucers is pulled from the mid to late 1960s , so not in the 1950s. ( I don't count the Giuseppe Belluzzo stuff in Italy 1950, that had no import here then.) I don't know if they are going to go for the Hollow Earth Nazi saucers that Ray Palmer liked so much. I suppose this will all be explained by the last episode? Tho they did get a 2nd season.


----------



## REBerg

This image from the opening credits makes me think that the series tone is less than dead serious.
What would the generals do without the Russians to blame for otherwise inexplicable incidents? How long did it take before we started referring to our cold war foes as the Soviets? The USSR had been around since 1922.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E08 - War Games



No article. No previous knowledge about the NK incident. But since they'd been so interested on everything that US army does it doesn't surprise me that this incident had been covered up. How History Channel got hint about it? I don't know. 

I guess it's part of the soft disclosure. The lights behaved just like that ones seen in the Green Fireballs. You could even hear the high pitch whining similar to UAPs seen in that episode. It was kind of expected that General Harding ordered that all information to remain within the unit itself, thus creating a closed loop. No information out. Not even to the Pentagon Archives.

What surprised me even more is that they flew the whole unit back to Ohio. And that when they interviewed the Ranger Platoon, MP's were present even though there was a MJ/12 classification order in place.






These days it wouldn't be a big thing to get rid of the evidence, but back then Lucy was taking extraordinary steps to make sure nobody knew about what had happened to Donna. I personally root for her but I hate the handler. Instead of being supportive, he's anything but.

Lucy continued handling Mimi and milking her out information as if she's really Mimi's best friend forever. So losing Donna from the picture came in the right time as it fuelled Mimi's paranoia and made her move closer to the faux BFF. 

Russians and their honeytraps. Man, what can I say? 

If you read into the spy craft, you'll soon learn that what ever the subject needs, you will have to provide it. Therefore, when Mimi said she felt unprotected, it was no wonder that Lucy took her to field to learn how to fire small arms. But as a spy she should be scared that Mimi turned out to be a crackshot on her first tries. 

Usually you miss more as you are trying to learn the sight picture and how to handle the whole thing.






The idea of this new weapon being used against our soldiers, the American people ..." Harding said and he couldn't finish his sentence as the whole thought made him feel sick. I'm not doubting that as if they would have told to the people that there is nothing they can do against the adversary, they would totally lose their face. 

The answer for that thought was: "We need our own weapon." As if it is so simple to develop a tool that the alien force is using so effectively. Even by the time Reagan announced the Star Wars program, the US army had no weapon. Now they do, but it's still nothing like what they possess.






If you ever read UFO investigators manuals you'll see that they associate paranormal events closely to sightings of the unknown objects or UAPs. Back in the fifties, when the investigators were interviewing the people, the official rules said that the investigator writes down conclusions, and not what the interviewee said or claimed. 

So, it lead to PBB statics to develop many cases of swamp gas and meteors, because that's what the report said. Not what the people had seen or experienced. But these days it is essential to put down as it is told or recorded. 

If thousands of birds would have rained down from the sky at the sighting place, I would have freaked out. It would have scared me, but Hynek and Cpt Quinn were perplexed about what happened. Dr Hynek even took a sample to be studied at a field lab. 

Strange as it was Doctor didn't associate burns in Starling eyes to laser technology. Maybe because he didn't know that it is very likely that is the case. Instead he ordered whole company to go through disease control, all while the Generals knew that they were dealing with some sort of beam weapon. 






Corporal Wells. What murky soup you have put yourself into this time. He acted lonely and paranoid, when they brought to see the polite whitecoated gentleman. I would have done the same, even if the Generals would not have been present. 

Harding and his companion were acting like curious schoolboys, when Corporal Wells presented to be able to contact the super-natural beings. Thing I believe that some people are extraordinarily sensitive to the telepathy and through them they can manifest ESP, telekinesis and other paranormal powers.  

There is that famous Arthur C Clark saying about: _"Any sufficiently *advanced* *technology* is indistinguishable from *magic*._" In their case, through a psychic condition can do "magic." Maybe even phase sift through solid walls and ceilings. 

To us, all of that is magic. 

After the orange orbs appeared over the field camp, the Ranger Squad started acting as if they were being possessed ... by some higher power. Corporal Well even started speaking in tongues that Catholic Priest would have immediately associated to the demonic possession. But it's not, in the UFO cases, it's them. 

Dr Hynek claimed it was "some sort behavioural agent." But that's the thing about the telepaths. If you are that powerful,  you can easily take over persons mind and make them do or see almost anything. 






Maybe that Hynek's treasure is psychic field enhancer and it also possess some sort of tracker technology.  By simply holding it Corporal Wells were able to best Cpt Quinn, almost as if he was being enhanced by the damn thing. 

What is more puzzling is that when Hynek and Quinn presented their mortal shell evidence to the Generals, they acted puzzled. Why is that Dr Hynek cannot make the psychic connection? He rather believed that the brass were hiding the facts and that they knew everything even though they were mostly clueless about what was happening. 






The real surprise was that the Secretary of Defence and therefore Pres Eisenhower knew about the chemical weapon program, but were in dark from the psychically active soldier program. Man, why is that they are playing these games at the Pentagon?





REBerg said:


> How long did it take before we started referring to our cold war foes as the Soviets?



We started talking about them around 20's, but that is because Russia is our next door neighbour and we knew about what they were doing, while we were trying to build up the independent Finland. Throughout the WW2 they were known as Soviets and it went on for while, until the perestroika brought down the Kremlin and introduced democracy for sort period before mr p stepped into power.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> View attachment 50353​This image from the opening credits makes me think that the series tone is less than dead serious.
> What would the generals do without the Russians to blame for otherwise inexplicable incidents? How long did it take before we started referring to our cold war foes as the Soviets? The USSR had been around since 1922.



The are as dead serious about ratings as Ray Palmer was about boosting sales of Fate and Flying Saucers magazines! This looks like it could be a real ad but I can't find it.
It was  made by Moltiongraphics London. May be a generated image:
Project Blue Book | Motiongraphics.London


----------



## REBerg

The show deserves good ratings. It's entertaining -- as is the image of women riding an atomic bomb.
My guess is that Motiongraphics generated this newspaperlike dot pattern image. Nobody in the U.S. saw Russia's first nuclear detonation in 1949 as cause for celebration.
Regardless of whether the image is taken from the times or created by a studio, the show producers chose to include it in the weekly introduction. At least one viewer as interpreted it a sly wink about the subject matter.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> The show deserves good ratings. It's entertaining -- as is the image of women riding an atomic bomb.
> My guess is that Motiongraphics generated this newspaperlike dot pattern image. Nobody in the U.S. saw Russia's first nuclear detonation in 1949 as cause for celebration.
> Regardless of whether the image is taken from the times or created by a studio, the show producers chose to include it in the weekly introduction. At least one viewer as interpreted it a sly wink about the subject matter.


They have one odd image in there, there was indeed a Flying Bedstead in the 1950s, but the video clip they have is the Lunar Landing Research (Training) Vehicle for Apollo from the late 1960s.


----------



## BAYLOR

Al Jackson said:


> You mean to say the tabloid style rejiggering hype invention I find so entertaining for the show is actually the real facts?
> If so that is cool!





ctg said:


> If you'll do FOIA on US gov UFO files, and you are successful with the request, they'll send you back a CERVIS record that look like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All the US service members, especially Navy and Air Force are demanded to report UFO's and that same practice is happening all around the world. Dr Hynek didn't service under the Project Blue Book, as he was working under Project Sign. TBB was US government attempt to suppress the UFO phenomenom from the public. Some could say it was their PR effort.
> 
> Maybe the truth was that the Authorities sh*t in the pants as they realised there was nothing they could do to these other worldly things. I mean back in the fifties they were so scared about the communists that they went through two wars, first Korea and later on in Vietnam that it was stupid.
> 
> Maybe they thought back in the fifties that they shouldn't tell anyone that there was nothing they could do and the UFO's/MiB could do whatever they wanted, and if the public knew, they'd be in trouble.
> 
> As it's a case today, they cannot admit on knowing anything on the subject, except through stuff like this. Maybe this is their disclosure and the stuff is real. All I know is that the records are real and they demand you to report if you see something. Especially if it's a case of UFOs.
> 
> So, if they need to alter the title, I'd like it to be *Project Blue Book - The Official Cover Up Story*




The Val Johnson UFO Encounter 1979 .


----------



## clovis-man

I'm off. I'd rather watch reruns of the X Files.


----------



## ctg

BAYLOR said:


> The Val Johnson UFO Encounter 1979



What about it?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


>



So far all the episodes are fragmented. There is a basic 'incident' , the on going kinda conspiracy undercurrents, the Air Force has one, Hynek seems to have one ... with the secretary of Defense... is it Defense?, Mimi and Susie have something going on … some tension? does Mini like Susi? … 
Will we find out Susi's real Russian name?
Will we ever find out Susi's ballpeen associate's name?
Is Hynek still in cahoots with the secretary of defense?
What happened to von Braun's disk?
Where is Donald Keyhoe?
Will Captain Quinn be told anything?
Will Mini get questioned about Donna's disappearance? 
Will Susi get questioned ?
Will Quinn connect Mini and Susi?
Lot to cover in the next two episodes.
Will anybody tell Truman anything?


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Lot to cover in the next two episodes.



Sure. A lot to cover, but that is the curse of every series and in many cases, especially if it's SF, you will never get answers. And about the PBB, History Channel has taken artistic liberations and made Hynek to be 50's Indiana Jones for the UFO lore, while Cpt Quinn is a stereotypical hard-boiled sceptic. 

This series isn't a replacement for the X-Files, not matter what people say. It is a soft disclosure on certain events that happened and it clearly shows that US Defence Department felt they couldn't talk about the subject, and hence it became the 'official explanation' for the governments to use even today.  

There are three types of people, who has to report and/or respond to these incidents, and they are a) police officers b) pilots  and c) sailors. There is another group of people, who often encounter unknown things and they farmers or rather ranchers. They can make a report, but they are not obligated to report things other than the stuff that concerns animals. 

In this show you see rational people trying to report, you see crazy people, and you see the mysterious stuff that cannot be explained by normal means. It will most certainly continue that way to next season, and one after that, if people outside the US likes the UFO stuff. 

Wherever they decide to stuff it's going to be interesting. And if there is a need to expand the cast, I'm sure they will bring on other historical figures. Although I'm suspecting that they're going to be under false names.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: Richard Dolan on the PBB Scoutmaster case








The PBB investigators found flattened grass, but they couldn't find scortched earth. The Scoutmaster has burn marks on his face, arms. He had burned hair, even his nostril hairs showed signs of flash heat. What's interesting that the grass "root structure of the plants from the area in question was degenerated, apparently by heat, while the root structure of the control sample was undisturbed."

Yet, the official answer was "swamp gas." I did find it funny that Mr Dolan were disregarding this case as nothing remarkable. But when he started looking into it, the details started to bring out the interesting aspects. Things that are scientifically fascinating, but the History Channel couldn't bring them up as they've to cover three to four plotlines per episode.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S01E09 - Abduction









Apparently this episode was inspired by 1961 Betty and Barnes Abduction case. Here's History Channel own article on the case: The First Alien-Abduction Account Described a Medical Exam with a Crude Pregnancy Test

I don't want to go over it, as I assume it is known to most either through the books, articles, or through TV docudrama with super cheesy aliens and James Earl Jones as Barney Hill.
The UFO Incident (TV Movie 1975) - IMDb






I don't blame Dr Hynek for having second thoughts. He started as a complete sceptic and finished TBB as a completely UFO geek/believer, who went from a convention to convention, even trying to take over a civilian UFO investigation organisation known as APRO at mid 1980's when it's founders were passing away. He told them after reviewing some of the files that "You got many cases that we didn't at the Project Blue Book."

If the UFO bugs bites you, it changes you and you will find it hard to let go off those thoughts, just like it happened to Roy Neary at the Close Encounters of Third Kind. The 1950's, unlike in our modern society, the UFO encounters were reported in the news media and they were talked in TV in almost daily, if not weekly basis. 

Back then it was all about the buzz. So think about it, what Mimi is asking is equivalent for someone to give up on participating in one of Musk's projects and expect to find something else, that's definitely has nothing to do with the space project. But Allan was willing to come home and leave all the weirdness behind, regardless of the buzz-factor. 

If the Russian handler would have known about it, he would have asked Mimi to make her damnest to keep Dr Hynek in the project, instead of making her to milk for the information. What happened to the old rule of "Make sure your assets are happy and taken care of?"

Suzy played brilliantly the wounded woman story, even colouring with "second time he was drunk," party-line. Domestic Violence is true, and I've experienced it, even been part of the punished side. What I didn't see was her playing the Honey Trap and then drugging Mimi in order to get her compromised.

Back in the 50's a gay relationship would have ended careers or put you in wooden box.






What is the plan Thomas? You still need to get away from the freaking Wright-Patternson AFB even if you managed to somehow successfully make you way into the PBB offices. People are rarely super comprehensive when you point a gun on them.

As it was with Betty and Barney's case, it took a while before doctors listened. So I'm not surprised that the extreme pain creates extreme cases, like doing taking hostages in one of America's fortresses. The only way out from it is to not come out and end your days, or get the people to listen for your concern.  

At the moment of watching I'll give 50 percent success rate, just because Dr Hynek was still in the office. For being the Indiana Jones of the ufology he would have never given up on an abduction case walking into the office, and asking him to help. Without out it Thomas would have been buried by the Army just to keep the incident off from the media?

Can you imagine what headlines the case would have made if it had got out? So I'm not surprised Suzy made a boardroom decision and made her the Handler.






New Hampshire isn't far away from one of the US UFO hotspots at Hudson Valley. It's just above the Boston. And the similarity to many other abduction cases is that Thomas was out, alone, relatively far away from the urban civilisation.

His car was experiencing EM interference before it was stopped. He saw a light in the sky and soon after they were chasing him. I was surprised that the producers made the lights to be alien drones and they were coming from the mothership. Just we are planning to do it ourselves in the military vehicles. 






Thomas explained pretty well the experience that thousands of abductees share in their stories and later on in the hypnotic regression. What made the Betty and Barney case was the starmap, especially it showed exoplanets. Back then the whole notion of exoplanets was just "huuhaa nonsense." Now we know better, and it's not because of the UFO's, but because of the astrosciences that I'm interested on these cases. As a writer I cannot let go of a thought of an alien life, and it possibly visiting us. 

To Dr Hynek the whole notion of Thomas being able to replicated the star chart he had stuck on office wall was too much of coincidence. The most intriguing detail about the Hynek's Star Chart is that it is the presentation of Plaidies - the Seven Sisters AKA the home of the nordic types. Not Ebens AKA the Greys. If you are interested you can easily spot in on the Nordic Sky. Just look up and you'll see a cluster of 9 blue stars near Ursa Major constellation. 

I loved the play of Cpt Quinn pushing Thomas towards the edge of rage through his scepticism and short sightedness. The only answer was Thomas puzzle was to put him under a Hypnosis. In the BnB case that took years and several doctor sessions to happen. And now, it is a fairly standard practice with the positive abductee cases. 

Note that there are those who think they were, but they weren't. Hypnosis in their case would be a bad thing.






How does Dr Hynek know how to do Hypnosis when he was originally an astronomer? Being a Doctor doesn't mean that you know everything and can just do it thing with snap of fingers. There are only very few people who are so super skilled, but Dr Hynek isn't one of them. It would be better if they would expand the cast to include other scientist then just Hynek. 

Thomas' wife surely put Cpt Quinn in his place while Thomas recalled the encounter of third kind. Being a stubborn ******* dear Captain just inflamed the situation. But the important bit is that Hynek recognised Thomas telling the truth. Under a Hypnosis you cannot imagine, or lie. It just doesn't work that way. What you recall is memories. 

I loved that Dr Hynek went ballistic on Captain face, for him being unsupportive and block-headed SoB. I loved even more that punches were thrown, while Thomas wife conducted a field surgery to get out the implant. 






They look like that but those that they've taken out from the body, are usually much smaller, and often covered with a sack that you cannot penetrate with a surgical instrument, like a scalpel. But I love the Hollywood depiction on concept of an alien implant. 

Cpt Quinn identified it as sharpnel or a flattened bullet. But if he really would have seen those types of bullets, he would have know that was nothing like it. The intriguing bit that they didn't get to conduct is the metallurgy. In the cases that involves alien implants, you'll find often metal alloys that are abnormal to our state of technology. You also find abundance of rare earth minerals, similar way that they are going in our mobile devices ... or RFID implants. 

Those are usually size of rise grain, funnily same size as the alien implants. Rarely they are Hollywood big. Although the next case is because it's most like will be the famous 1952 Washington DC UFO incident.


----------



## REBerg

A lot more drama than scifi this time around.


Spoiler



The least believable scene was the Quinn vs. Hynek round of fisticuffs. A trained soldier grappling with a civilian academic should have been over in an instant. I have to think that Quinn was holding back -- fending off most of what Hynek threw at him while trying not to injure his prize scientist. Quinn even tossed Hynek a bone by telling him that his pugilistic skills had improved since their Alabama bar fight.
Susie's execution of her abusive handler seemed more like a nod to women's empowerment than anything else. Good for you, Susie. Now, if only you had not muddied the message by using alcohol and drugs to seduce Mimi.
The object cut from Sgt. Mann by his dutiful wife did add a little scifi to the episode. The implant glowed as the violence in the office escalated to gunfire, making me think the aliens were eavesdropping on the action.
It took me a bit to recognize Mann as Malcolm Goodwin, aka, Det. Clive Babineaux, of_ iZombie_.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Now, if only you had not muddied the message by using alcohol and drugs to seduce Mimi.



Do you think she offed him because she loves Mimi? Can Honey Trap work both ways?


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think she offed him because she loves Mimi? Can Honey Trap work both ways?





Spoiler



I think that she was primarily motivated by self-preservation


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I think that she was primarily motivated by self-preservation



But she placed Handlers hands on her neck and said: "Squuze," before she added, "Now its free game for everyone," as she double tabbed the ******* point-blank. Without his KGB handler, she's going to be alone against other KGB agents. Do you think they are going to let her go or not investigate the case?


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> But she placed Handlers hands on her neck and said: "Squuze," before she added, "Now its free game for everyone," as she double tabbed the ******* point-blank. Without his KGB handler, she's going to be alone against other KGB agents. Do you think they are going to let her go or not investigate the case?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I thought she was going to gut him. I also thought she was going to torch the car -- to at least delay investigation by either side.
> As far as her future goes, I have no doubt that she has a plan. Susie is one smart spy cookie. She should be a handler.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> A lot more drama than scifi this time around.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The least believable scene was the Quinn vs. Hynek round of fisticuffs. A trained soldier grappling with a civilian academic should have been over in an instant. I have to think that Quinn was holding back -- fending off most of what Hynek threw at him while trying not to injure his prize scientist. Quinn even tossed Hynek a bone by telling him that his pugilistic skills had improved since their Alabama bar fight.
> Susie's execution of her abusive handler seemed more like a nod to women's empowerment than anything else. Good for you, Susie. Now, if only you had not muddied the message by using alcohol and drugs to seduce Mimi.
> The object cut from Sgt. Mann by his dutiful wife did add a little scifi to the episode. The implant glowed as the violence in the office escalated to gunfire, making me think the aliens were eavesdropping on the action.
> It took me a bit to recognize Mann as Malcolm Goodwin, aka, Det. Clive Babineaux, of_ iZombie_.





Spoiler



Yeah I thought this one very circumscribed , at this late date expected 'Abduction' to elaborate more on 'abduction' , this one almost looked budget constrained. Our favorite Air Force generals , missing.
The whole Mimi / Susie story seems headed for somewhere, tho I find it tiresome that they need the padding, I could do without this side bar story.
So we get to episode 9 and find that Hynek has had an 'office' at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base all along?!, I don't recall that the show Hynek has been  doing that. (The real Hynek was dispensed with long ago.)
Both Allen and Mimi are portrayed , much of time, as totally lacking any street smarts , I find this a tiresome cliché.
The way they have made each episode a sort of shaggy dog story will help with the segue  to season 2.
Seems Susi has a 'higher up' handler than her  partner with-out-a-name who never spoke Russian, maybe he did once, that guy was somewhat of a  _McGuffin_.

By the by this show should have the subtitle "Project Blue Book Unstuck in Time", because I have lost count of how many cases are NOT Bluebook!


----------



## ctg

@Al Jackson Please use Spoilers






We don't want to get these threads locked, and we certainly don't want to spoil things for the people who haven't seen the episodes. If you need to quote, just paint with your mouse area of text you want to quote, and hit reply. The system will produce the said quote in the quick reply window and you can afterwards paint the sections, and put them under a spoiler button.


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## REBerg

This may be old news, but I don't remember seeing it here.









						‘Project Blue Book’ Renewed For Season 2 By History – TCA
					

History has ordered a 10-episode second season of its hit UFO drama series Project Blue Book, from A+E Studios and executive producer Robert Zemeckis. The renewal comes amid strong ratings for the …




					deadline.com


----------



## ctg

Season final.



Spoiler: 1952 Washington DC UFO Incident 







That is the best reference I can give you to what really happened at the summer 52. Like I said it before the incident is probably most famous to new generations via X-Files using the actual footage in the title sequence.

All we know that after this it was all about the denial from the Authorities and while Dr Hynek went through hoops and loops to swim upstream, the denial took the place and Allan was cast down almost like a heretic. From here on out, he was in their bad books. Maybe the show makes it different?







Man, Hynek ran through the traffic to the monument for nothing. Cpt Quinn rightly asked: "Why we we were running as if he didn't know that the day time sightings are the most rare of them all. I loved that they included the humongous yellow ball over the capital, but I didn't like that the drones were again having high-pitched turbine noise, when in the reality they are noiseless. 

Don't ask me how their technology works. All I know is that it's far superior to ours and there is nearly nothing we can do about it. It's just the nature of the facts. But if you hear them, you can possibly deduce what kind of engine they are using in the atmosphere. 

Thing is, it really happened. There's no denying it. And there's two theories about it, one is that they were Nazis and the second is the alien one. Now we can assume that the giant big yellow ball was a mothership and it was followed by saucers and glowing drones. 






I loved that the Joint Chiefs were shouting it's Russians as if the Eastern SuperState was capable of creating superior technology out of blue. It's true that they are very capable and back in the Soviet time USSR scientists were on top of the league. Another fact is that the Joint Chiefs or in this case, the MJ12 considering the civilians members in the table, were supremely stupid even though the facts were standing on their face. 

The Secretary of Defence was right when he said: "They were clocking seven thousand miles on hour on the targets. Soviets has nothing like it."

General Harding replied back. "Regardless of that I want troops of Moscow and everyone on high alert. Let the Blue Book handle the Press and we prepare to strike back."

Sir, Yes Sir!

I don't know what it is about the Americans but that is exactly how rest of the world sees US operating. Gun-ho bullies, instead of diplomacy first. The war is always a continuation of politics, it is never the first strike, we win, madness. If it is, it's pure chaos and end of days to the world as we know it, and the thing is, there would be ef all that we could do against technologically superior opponents. 

It would be a struggle. To all of us. Not just the US of A.

I loved the Captain Quinn went on after getting the marching orders with his high military attitude, while Dr Hynek wanted to have an explanation, before he would recommend trying to shoot them down. 






I'm glad that it was a show even back then to meet the press core. If you look closely there is only one 8mm film camera, and no lighting. The questions were typical for anyone of them and Dr Hynek handled the business in a scientific manner, just as his job description demanded. Although the press tried to push the alien agenda, the Pentagon mandated that the people would receive a scientific one instead of a speculative one. 

Cpt Quinn asked: "Can you really sell this temperature inversion to the public?" as if he doubted that the public would just eat their cake and like it. Well, at least now we know why it's such a taboo and why can't talk about it.






"Do you know what this is?" Mimi laid down a bug at front of the Russian spy. 

"I don't know." Suzy smiled back kindly. "Why don't you tell me?"

First drugging, almost molesting, then lying straight to the face of her mark. No wonder why most of them have such a bad reputation. It is as if the Eastern Super-State is actually a mafia controlled nation player. I know I speak in political and strategic terms, but I think it'll explain the culture, especially the Russian one to the modern days. 

Later on when Mimi and Suzy were together watching Lucy, she really took advance of the situation she'd created before she offed her boss. It was sweet that she backed off from bedding her mark, when Mimi showed that he was shocked by the fact that they might had had sexual relations. 

Back then life was hard for the LGTB people. Now it's so different.  






I like that President Truman started: "I just got off with the Moscow and they swear it wasn't them. What the hell were those things?" He was clearly not happy or prepared to take any bollocks from the Joint Chiefs/MJ12 advisors.

SecDef went on with the alien agenda, while Gen Harding leaned on his Soviet bs. And Truman accepted the generals recommendation over the unknown as if it could have been something else as he said: "Find me a proof so I can show those bastards what a real airstrike looks like."

If the life in DC is like that everyday, no wonder why US system is in so bad state. They won the cold war, but at the core, they were already rotting back in the 1950's. How long it will take before the Empire collapses? Romans lasted almost 1200 years, while Britons diminished after 300 years. US has been a super-state for little over a 100 years, and just like the British, lies has not lead it to an utopia. MAGA is not an example of it, it is a symptom in my honest opinion. 






So Cpt Quinn got finally to meet the MiB at the season final and he lived through it with his memory intact. I wasn't surprised that MiB denied being a Russian spy. In fact, he was amused by the allegation, before he denied on being US side either. Although he said, "I work for the same people," but Dr Hynek didn't understood the Deep State reference, even if it would have written in cat sized letters on flap board at front of him. 

For being a soldier, Cpt Quinn makes a very poor spy. But at least he has gained enough of tactical sense to give up his gun when he was outgunned by the MiB mob. What surprised me was that the MiB left one of their black sedans for the Dr to convince the parties that the sighting was from another world.

There is a theory that claims the MiB are from a parallel dimension. But one thing sure, the MiB is not same as the MJ12. There is no proof of that. 

The thing that surprised me more was that Hynek and Quinn showed the Operation Ivy tape to the Secretary of Defence, even though you'd have assumed that they'd follow the protocol and report the MiB incident to the Gen Harding and Co.

If you look into the history Operation Ivy happened and throughout the 20th century the UFO abductees, and the contact people claimed that the aliens were really concerned about the nukes. Maybe if the theory is true, the Ebens, Plaidians and others are older races and we are the new society that rose after the God wiped Earth clean from the last civilisation. 

I know that sentence leads all the way to the Ancient Gods theory, but if you look all of the evidence that they don't speak in the mainstream media, it is one of the most plausible one to explain the thing. Some anonymous government officials has said thing along the line that we weren't the first civilisation to occupy Earth. More so, there has been a scientific paper that has claimed that Mars lost it's atmosphere because there was a nuclear war. 

That leads to the theory that some of the humans are transplants from the old society that used to rule Mars, and there is evidence about it throughout the solar system. Just like the SF writers has been indication for decades. 

Maybe we aren't alone. 

Maybe the aliens wants us to stop using nukes as weapons of fear and accept that we can be part of the much larger society. Maybe that is what the awakening means. I don't know what is the truth, but it is crazy that they let go forward with free will towards certain doom if we cock it up and don't accept certain realities. 

I really hope the humanity is not as stupid as it might be if we were given a warning.






The SecDef got no warning that the Deep State had put him on the hit list for being too loud. I have no way of knowing if that is true, if that is fiction as I'm feeling too tired after the doc appointment today. 

Then again Mimi didn't receive any warning either that the Generals had put a hint of communist party membership in the ear of J Edgar Hoover. Hence the FBI clearing out Hynek's office. But the problem is that they also found Suzy's bugs. 

All while the Generals explained the incident with an engine failure instead of leaning into Hynek's weather phenomenom that later on became the official explanation to the incident. 

Luckily, the aliens saved the day. Allan ended in the Pentagon basement and Cpt Quinn flying one of the chase planes. Starfighter is an agile plane, but there is no way for it to push hyper velocity speeds. Thing is, time and again USAF has secretly engaged these "objects" and as many times they have been proved to be handling inferior technology. 

There is, therefore no choice but the do the long game, and conduct back-engineering projects on crashed, destroyed and recovered artefacts. 

What I don't understand is why Dr Hynek lied so boldly lied and then went to state on Quinn's face that "There is nothing strange in this world other then the history we don't know." Leading again to the freaking Ancient Aliens/Gods theory. 

"Do they come in peace or do they come for war?"

I vote for peace and biscuits first.



The History Channels first season of Project Blue Book has drawn close, and seeing the numbers, it has been an intriguing success for the producers. The people are interested and it is going to be intriguing to find out what's next.


----------



## REBerg

Overall, an entertaining episode. I do, however, have a bone to pick.


Spoiler






ctg said:


> The Secretary of Defence was right when he said: "They were clocking seven thousand miles on hour on the targets. Soviets has nothing like it."


The UFO formation that buzzed the Washington Monument was flying at Mach 9.1. Where were the sonic booms of my childhood?
History Channel oversight or advanced alien atmospheric displacement muffler technology?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> History Channel oversight or advanced alien atmospheric displacement muffler technology?



No. It's about their technology. There is something that they do that prevents the sonic booms from happening. They can do super high g turns on dime, and do acceleration that would be crushing in normal atmosphere or in space. My understanding is that their technology can create some sort of field that absorbs the shock, or then they phase out partially from this dimension to eliminated physical shocks.

What is the reality I don't know and those who know say nothing. 

PS I can also explain the ending but it's crazy.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler






ctg said:


> PS I can also explain the ending but it's crazy.


No, thanks. I can wait until season 2.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No. It's about their technology. There is something that they do that prevents the sonic booms from happening. They can do super high g turns on dime, and do acceleration that would be crushing in normal atmosphere or in space. My understanding is that their technology can create some sort of field that absorbs the shock, or then they phase out partially from this dimension to eliminated physical shocks.
> 
> What is the reality I don't know and those who know say nothing.
> 
> PS I can also explain the ending but it's crazy.





Spoiler



That has to be alien extraterrestrial technology not one on the face of the earth could do Mach 9 and burn up or make a sonic shock wave. The USSR did not have any technology like that then. In fact no one today has technology that can suppress a sound shock wave like that, on the Earth that is.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Season final.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 1952 Washington DC UFO Incident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The SecDef got no warning that the Deep State had put him on the hit list for being too loud. I have no way of knowing if that is true, if that is fiction as I'm feeling too tired after the doc appointment today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> This show absolutely Alternate Universe , no Secretary of Defense of the United State was assassinated ever!  What's odd in War Games Episode 8 we have the secretary of defense out Deep-Stating the Air Force generals!! But I love that!
> The show has more convoluted plot loops than there are in a bowl of spaghetti!


----------



## REBerg

Al Jackson said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> That has to be alien extraterrestrial technology not one on the face of the earth could do Mach 9 and burn up or make a sonic shock wave. The USSR did not have any technology like that then. In fact no one today has technology that can suppress a sound shock wave like that, on the Earth that is.


Funny that the topic of sonic booms has arisen in this thread at the same time that_ Popular Science_ has an article about several startups attempting to bring supersonic aircraft back to commercial transportation. One of the obstacles is mitigating the intensity of the sonic boom.


> The goal is to generate a sonic boom with a perceived decibel level of 75 for anyone on the ground. That's about as loud a slamming your car door.
> -- Popular Science, "The Second Wave." Spring 2019​


​


Spoiler



Apparently, the alien visitors of _Project Blue Book_ have already achieved that goal, as well as mastered the art of inertia dampening. Nothing organic could survive the crushing forces that would be generated by the maneuvers performed at 7,000 mph in the D.C. UFO air show. I suppose those drones could have been remotely controlled from the mother ship.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Funny that the topic of sonic booms has arisen in this thread at the same time that_ Popular Science_ has an article about several startups attempting to bring supersonic aircraft back to commercial transportation. One of the obstacles is mitigating the intensity of the sonic boom.
> ​
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, the alien visitors of _Project Blue Book_ have already achieved that goal, as well as mastered the art of inertia dampening. Nothing organic could survive the crushing forces that would be generated by the maneuvers performed at 7,000 mph in the D.C. UFO air show. I suppose those drones could have been remotely controlled from the mother ship.



If there is one thing that reading science fiction for the last 60 years has taught me,  it is to respect interstellar distances.
Clarke had a solution to the Fermi Paradox in 1973:
" Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I have seen this revised to "Any sufficiently advance technology is* indistinguishable*."
I think this better.
There is nothing to prevents slower than light interstellar travel.
One could send an Orion type vehicle to the stars at .1 speed of light right now!
Relativistic flight is another kettle of fish, but there is not physics preventing it , however the engineering physics is likely 200 to 500 years away.
Even Faster Than Light , as a physics problem was solved  by Kip Thorne in 1988, however the engineering physics for that is 1000 to 10,000 years in the future.
As far as I can see UFO's have to be interstellar ships, that means that civilization has technology *FAT*!
There is not a blinking thing we can do about them!
In fact almost all Encounters of Any Kind never seem have ring of viability to them, there is always something non transcendent about them, never anything so odd as to seem really strange.
Anyway explorers from an advanced civilization could be here and be totally invisible to us , and I mean that in an absolute way.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I suppose those drones could have been remotely controlled from the mother ship.



Exactly. I think many of the smaller lights or UAPs has been drones performing some absolutely amazing manoeuvres, while the mothership types are different and usually cloaked or appear with no lights on during the night time. If they put them on, they'll have a reason for it. 

There is also a theory that claims that some of the greys has been bioandroids, which further suggests that they can use those to perform against the laws of the universe. We know as scientific facts that there are other dimensions than normal 3 plus time, and that the multiverse is real. 

If they shift or phase partially to another dimension, or open up a worm hole, it could explain the high-g manoeuvres and an ability to move faster than what the laws of physics allow. To us, we haven't figured any way to achieve that, but for us SF writers its even more important to write about the off-world materials and technologies that push boundaries.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Season final.
> 
> Thing is, it really happened. There's no denying it. And there's two theories about it, one is that they were Nazis and the second is the alien one. Now we can assume that the giant big yellow ball was a mothership and it was followed by saucers and glowing drones.








Spoiler



Nazi's. My recollection is the Nazi saucers was not in play until , at least, the 1960's.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Nazi's. My recollection is the Nazi saucers was not in play until , at least, the 1960's.



Could you please elaborate?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Could you please elaborate?





Spoiler



From this article the implication is that the NAZI connection did not really happen till after 1960.








						Nazi UFOs - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## ctg

Watch his eye movement, he keeps recalling and referring, while being completely honest about what it felt like to be in service as a general during the Project Blue Book. He recalls that Eisenhower was completely into the knowledge, and he was shown material from the Roswell Crash. He also confirmed the presence of hieroglyphs in the recovered material. 

He claims that there were 1540 cases that should have been confirmation of UAPs, and that the Pentagon masters felt that they needed to use the Project BB to suppress the population about what is really going on. 

Unlike in the History program the Pentagon was preparing for the UAP encounters and they had several cases of radar locks on unknown objects. He also said that PBB was aware that the airplane pilots receiving radio calls from unknown origins. And that Wright-Patterson AFB is one of the places that has highest number of unknown lock-ons.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler



The TV show Project Blue Book is as silly as a Monty Python movie…that is a good thing!


Our main characters are clueless boobs most the time, Hynek with fret marks hovering all the time and Captain Quinn ready to take ballpeen action at the drop of a pin!


The two Air Force Generals, who , just who are they?  Is one on the joint chiefs, or what? They seem to have a conspiracy going on their own , hidden disks at the end of two episodes , a program for training contactees? Seemingly they have this undercover deal going all the time even getting jumpy with each other.


Then the , alternate universe , secretary of defense ,  has his own side conspiracy , snookering the air force generals  in episode 8, and he and Hynek seem to have some backroom deal going too.
Then he gets blown up! Alternate Universe!!


That Russians might be spying on Hynek might make sense, but why the heck the odd ball story with Mimi and Susie that just flat goes nowhere? More goofiness.


I do like that they mix in hard the RED SCARE of the times, and the paranoia about nuclear war.


The Fixer guy and his Men in Black is left completely unexplained , are they aliens? There are almost an uncountable number of sidebars in this story!


Thought the best episode was 4 where Wernher von Braun not only has a Gray in a tank but a working Saucer! Can’t beat that! This story is left hanging! No clue as to what the hell is going on.


No the Russians had no technology in early 50’s  that could do 7 thousand miles an hour… however this is an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE , so maybe!!


I like how historical characters are worked in , Barney Hill, in episode 9, only it is not Barney Hill but ‘shadow’ Barney Hill, a disappointing  episode except for the mysterious ‘chip’ … and accumulation of artifacts on the show, all unexplained.


Another character Donald Kehoe episode 3, and the FBI, or CIA or MIB stick an gun in his mouth, we never see him again. Even tho he walks away.

The whole story for ten episodes is a chaotic mess!

These stories are not ‘inspired’ by Project Blue Book that are bait and switch tabloid click bait!

I love this show! The mad reformulations are very entertaining!

O Yeah, end, Polar Regins? The Hole at the Pole? Hellish Nazi Aluminum machines!? Ray Palmer better be in S2E1 !!!
Ok!


----------



## REBerg

Ah, the old alternate universe ploy, the spice that makes truth so delicious.
It works for shows like The _Walking Dead_ and _Human_s. Why not _Project Blue Book_? That could also account for a lot of the deviations cited in _Vikings_.
Anything is fair game in an alternate universe -- including the laws of physics, and, of course, history.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Ah, the old alternate universe ploy, the spice that makes truth so delicious.
> It works for shows like The _Walking Dead_ and _Human_s. Why not _Project Blue Book_? That could also account for a lot of the deviations cited in _Vikings_.
> Anything is fair game in an alternate universe -- including the laws of physics, and, of course, history.


Yeah, I have seen it invoked as a description of ALL fiction.
Well there are many forking paths in alternate universes.
Mostly in science fiction the Alternate Universe that sticks to the physics of the factual universe , that we know, but extrapolates engineering physics, Robert Heinlein is a great example here,  is sublimely entertaining because of the sense of verisimilitude it creates , so Heinlein's SF is all alternate universe in that way , in fact that is true of Asimov and Clarke and 100% of good SF.
After all 2001: A Space Odyssey predicted a future , 30 years on from 1968, which was only realized in 2001 as an alternate universe!
I guess one could tag Project Bluebook as Historical Fiction!
After all every episode is sort of kind of based on a 'Blue Book' event but is hyper FICTIONALIZED.
Tho I don't recall a Blue Book entry that involved Nazi's having Disks!!


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## REBerg

Al Jackson said:


> Yeah, I have seen it invoked as a description of ALL fiction.


Would fiction of any sort exist if our personal realities were more entertaining?



Al Jackson said:


> Robert Heinlein is a great example here, is sublimely entertaining because of the sense of verisimilitude it creates , so Heinlein's SF is all alternate universe in that way , in fact that is true of Asimov and Clarke and 100% of good SF.


True. The quality of SF seems inversely related to the need to suspend disbelief. The more real it seems, the more immersive it becomes.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Would fiction of any sort exist if our personal realities were more entertaining?


My personal realities have been varied, I worked in manned space flight for near 45 years, much of that was exciting, but especially Apollo.
Even got to wear an Apollo space suit once for a test back in 1968.


----------



## REBerg

Submitted for your analysis:

I was out with one of my two dogs late one night a year or so ago, when I saw something I still can’t explain. Being something of a stargazer, I scanned the skies to see what planets might be observable. I didn’t spot any, but I did see a trio of what appeared to be orange chevrons flying in formation toward the northeast.

They were faint and silent, which made me think that they might be some sort of military aircraft flying at a very high altitude. Yet, they crossed the sky so quickly, that they would have been moving at an extremely high speed.

I theorized that they might have been projections from one of those searchlights sometimes used to attract attention to a store grand opening or something, but I didn’t see a beam. It was a cloudless night, so the chevrons could not have been a reflection.

I checked the internet, but I found no reports of such a sighting from anyone else.

I’ve not seen the mysterious chevrons again, which reassures me that the aliens have not targeted me for abduction. Dang!


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> I was out with one of my two dogs late one night a year or so ago, when I saw something I still can’t explain.



This is already a proof positive, as dog walkers and smokers are two most common types of people who'll encounter abnormal stuff. Then comes the profession, sailor, pilot, police patrol officer or farmer.



REBerg said:


> I theorized that they might have been projections from one of those searchlights sometimes used to attract attention to a store grand opening or something, but I didn’t see a beam. It was a cloudless night, so the chevrons could not have been a reflection.



If you'll see a lit up chevron going high up in the sky, it's abnormal as there are no planes that lit up that way. Usually, only when they come to landing, they put up lights, otherwise you'll only see the green/red navigation lights from the ground. And in the night time, you don't see planes from ground unless they're lit up, and then you see the light, not the plane. 

But about the chevron's, how did it appear?



Spoiler: 1. Like this?














Spoiler: 2. or like this?













Spoiler: 3. last one













REBerg said:


> I checked the internet, but I found no reports of such a sighting from anyone else.



Did you report it to MUFON?


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> This is already a proof positive, as dog walkers and smokers are two most common types of people who'll encounter abnormal stuff. Then comes the profession, sailor, pilot, police patrol officer or farmer.
> 
> 
> 
> If you'll see a lit up chevron going high up in the sky, it's abnormal as there are no planes that lit up that way. Usually, only when they come to landing, they put up lights, otherwise you'll only see the green/red navigation lights from the ground. And in the night time, you don't see planes from ground unless they're lit up, and then you see the light, not the plane.
> 
> But about the chevron's, how did it appear?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 1. Like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 2. or like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 3. last one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you report it to MUFON?


It looked generally like example 3, only not so bright, with three of them flying in a triangular formation.
I didn't report it to anyone but my wife --  reluctantly. I just thought it was strange at the time, but I guess I figured that I would eventually come up with an explanation. I haven't.
I wonder how Hynek might have accounted for it?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> It looked generally like example 3, only not so bright, with three of them flying in a triangular formation.



That was an actual UFO shot. The other two are from so called triangular UFO or unformally know as TR3B aka reverse engineered and remodified sample of "unknown" technology made by man.



REBerg said:


> I wonder how Hynek might have accounted for it?



Before he was turned or after?


----------



## ctg

TR3B US20060145019A1 - Triangular spacecraft          - Google Patents


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> TR3B US20060145019A1 - Triangular spacecraft          - Google Patents


Yikes! I don't speak technogibberish. Bottom line: Was this thing built, and did it fly?
I don't know that the objects I saw were triangular. They could have been, if only the leading two edges of each craft were illuminated in orange (propulsion units?), and the balance of the craft was in darkness.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Was this thing built, and did it fly?



You saw the photos. The Authorities deny but people have witnessed it. They have photographed and taken videos from it. Is it real? Yes Is it ours? We don't know.



REBerg said:


> I don't know that the objects I saw were triangular. They could have been, if only the leading two edges of each craft were illuminated in orange (propulsion units?), and the balance of the craft was in darkness.



I don't think your craft were TR3B's, but something else. With T3RB, you'll see the black triangle, 3 lights in the corners that are usually white and then a centre light, which might go red.



Spoiler: TR-3A Black Manta, TR-3B Astra - What are these black triangle UFOs?















Early 1990's Black Triangle UFO Escorted By Jets It Is Fiction No More - Here Is The Patent ◀


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/9pflvy


----------



## REBerg

Could I have seen a group of these?
​


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Could I have seen a group of these?



No. I don't think so. B2 don't create a glowing edge as they move through atmosphere. F117 is the same. Your new long range bomber is a question mark, but as they've hinted it shares the shape with B2, I'll doubt it was the case.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> No. I don't think so. B2 don't create a glowing edge as they move through atmosphere. F117 is the same. Your new long range bomber is a question mark, but as they've hinted it shares the shape with B2, I'll doubt it was the case.


Hmm. If these craft were moving at 17,000 mph or so, wouldn't atmospheric friction cause their leading edges to glow, possibly orange?
They did cross the sky very quickly; but hypersonic speed would have caused a sonic boom, which was not present.
At what altitude would the atmosphere still be thick enough to cause friction, yet too thin to produce an audible boom? Assuming such an altitude is possible, would the craft be visible with the naked eye?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> If these craft were moving at 17,000 mph or so, wouldn't atmospheric friction cause their leading edges to glow, possibly orange?



Sure, if they act according to the physics, they'd glow due to the atmospheric friction. But, you have not explained which vehicle can do 17000 mph flight in a tight formation, when all known vehicles are not even capable of reaching those velocities in the atmosphere. Can you explain that?



REBerg said:


> At what altitude would the atmosphere still be thick enough to cause friction, yet too thin to produce an audible boom?



Karman line, 100 km up, if you go below it, you start to glow because of the heat caused by the oxygen and nitrogen atoms hitting your thermal shield. 100 km is long way for the sound to travel and as it gets to lower, thicker atmosphere, the sounds waves have to carry that energy through moisture as well. Did you ever hear the shuttle making sonic booms, when they did the re-entry flights? 

Here is a tougher puzzle for you to think, this incident happened 3 weeks ago.






No sonic boom.


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> you have not explained which vehicle can do 17000 mph flight in a tight formation, when all known vehicles are not even capable of reaching those velocities in the atmosphere. Can you explain that?


Aliens.


ctg said:


> Here is a tougher puzzle for you to think, this incident happened 3 weeks ago.


Aliens.
I can't come up with any other explanation for what I saw or for the object in the video.


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## ctg

It is comfortable to find out that I'm not alone thinking that way. My world view has not shattered nor have I collapsed in chaos as certain reports suggests would happen if you'd come in to the knowledge. There is another hypothesis for the sightings, and that is time-travelling humans. If that is true, then you have to also consider the multiverse and as that has been proved to be the real thing, the possibilities of who those things belong to are endless. 

It is as if God is grinning us behind the realm of infinity. Just recently the scientist came to a conclusion that if you study infinite long enough you'll come up to point where God only can explain certain things, thus God is real. It's like you cannot deny it, just like in this case, either it's aliens or then it's dimension hopping travellers. 

So, here's the thing, if you can phase to another dimension, and thus break the traditional hard physics, can you travel long distances in far less time than what it would take in the real space? If you can, is it a far fetch to assume that the aliens, whoever they are, can come from another solar system? 

In our lifetime we have seen so many SF concepts to become reality. They are not "just fantasy" or "...some half-cocked idea that a writer might get in their head during the daydreaming." In the future you have to assume that we are going to make the contact, but what if they are already here, what then?


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## ctg

> Project Blue Book is History’s new historical fiction drama series based on actual UFO investigations conducted by the U.S. Air Force in the ‘50s and ‘60s. Although the show is heavy on the fiction, the characters are compelling, and the narrative covers UFO incidents based on real cases that demonstrated the Air Force’s UFO investigations were much more mysterious than they let on.


 Project Blue Book spoiler-free review: a UFO drama with Dark Skies vibes

Nice review on the series from the Den-of-Geek

*Project Blue Book starts on Wedneday the 27th of March at 9pm on Syfy UK.*


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## ctg




----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


>


Very detailed and rationally presented. Was Earth some sort of extraterrestrial convention destination in 1952?


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Very detailed and rationally presented.



Mister Dolan usually tries his best to rational and as scientific as he can. He bases his claims to the evidence, unlike some other people. 



REBerg said:


> Was Earth some sort of extraterrestrial convention destination in 1952?



I really don't know. In some ways it was not a happy place, in other measures it was a golden era for some other people, and they could not have been happier. It is unlikely that the ET's were happy about the cold war and the advance of nuclear weapons.


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## ctg

> PART ONE discusses the astonishing “Shoot Them Down” background to the story. Feschino demonstrates that the Flatwoods event was one of four major incursions of U.S. airspace by unidentified flying objects. These craft were fired upon by the U.S. Air Force.










> PART TWO interviews with Frank Feschino on the Richard Dolan Show. Feschino provides extensive detail regarding the legendary “Flatwoods Monster” UFO incident of September 12, 1952. Here, Feschino discusses the details of the forced landing in Flatwoods, West Virginia. This is a step by step walk-through of the incredible event, as well as the lesser-known encounter the following day in Framewood, West Virginia. This is where several individuals encountered the being associated with the downed craft.



There was so much more to the Flatwoods Monster case than anything that the public knew or what was presented in the series.


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## ctg

So one last thing that says times are changing and we should change with it. 



> The U.S. Navy is drafting new guidelines for pilots and other personnel to report encounters with "unidentified aircraft," a significant new step in creating a formal process to collect and analyze the unexplained sightings — and destigmatize them.
> 
> The previously unreported move is in response to a series of sightings of unknown, highly advanced aircraft intruding on Navy strike groups and other sensitive military formations and facilities, the service says.
> 
> "There have been a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years," the Navy said in a statement in response to questions from POLITICO. "For safety and security concerns, the Navy and the [U.S. Air Force] takes these reports very seriously and investigates each and every report.
> 
> "As part of this effort," it added, "the Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities. A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in draft."
> 
> To be clear, the Navy isn’t endorsing the idea that its sailors have encountered alien spacecraft. But it is acknowledging there have been enough strange aerial sightings by credible and highly trained military personnel that they need to be recorded in the official record and studied — rather than dismissed as some kooky phenomena from the realm of science-fiction.


 U.S. Navy drafting new guidelines for reporting UFOs


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## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> View attachment 50768
> 
> Could I have seen a group of these?
> ​



Remember the Horten brothers, this was built and flown in 1945.


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## REBerg

Uh-oh! They're back!
Imperial fighter?









						Senators receive classified briefing on UFO sightings
					

A group of US senators, including the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence committee, received a classified briefing Wednesday about a series of reported encounters by the US Navy with unidentified aircraft, according to a congressional aide.




					www.cnn.com


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Uh-oh! They're back!



Oh yeah, there's whole thing that is going on, but I haven't posted, because I didn't want this one to be turned to something else.


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## REBerg

Looks like the History Channel is running another UFO series, albeit without the dramatic element of _PBB_. I'll give it a watch this weekend.









						History is alive
					

Find out more about the shows on Sky HISTORY's TV channel, with plenty to read and watch on your favourite historical topics.




					www.history.com


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## REBerg

Watched this week's episode of _Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation_.
It was OK, but it was a little too much of a one-man crusade against a government conspiracy saga. Maybe that's the way it really is, but the approach undercuts the authenticity of the information presented.
Too much _Ghost Hunters_; not enough _60 minutes_.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> It was OK, but it was a little too much of a one-man crusade against a government conspiracy saga. Maybe that's the way it really is, but the approach undercuts the authenticity of the information presented.



Well, I didn't want to go there, but there's much, much more going on at the background. In other words, the controlled disclosure has started, and it has progressed through  things since the PBB aired. The whole Navy regulations has gone in place, potus has been informed, senators has been informed, the congress intel community has informed.

It is slowly coming out,  the whole thing, and I know it can hurt, when the issue has been a taboo for so long. I now know why there is soviet spies in the PBB. So hold on to your socks, because it's going to be a wild one as things blows open the taboo.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Too much _Ghost Hunters_; not enough _60 minutes_.



They have been criticised for this heavily. You can blame the History channel producers scripted a lot of things. The most important thing you'll have to understand that the US population has been denied the truth about these things for a long, long time. And if you look into the cast, they have actual DIA and SAP people from the Lockheed Martin Skunkworks.

The AATIP is real and it's still going under the Pentagon. The language as we speculated has been altered from the UFO's to the UAP, Unknown Ariel Phenomenom. So, the History Channel has been part of this whole "controlled disclosure," movement, and although things in the PBB were dramatised, they are telling the true story. And that is the thing, because the whole thing was ridiculed to the point, where humanity started to believe we are alone in the universe.

Whether the time-travel exist is whole another thing, and I hope we don't dive in that rabbit hole soon as that's something humanity shouldn't be playing with ... for a long time. It's better that aspect is locked in the minds of us genre writers.

If you have questions, I will try to answer the best I can, but I still don't want to push my brain too much. Although I'm getting there, and I might be able to even put up Viv's Anthology thread in the publishing board soon.


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## ctg

Here is something for you to read and think from the Physicist worked for the infamous LM Skunkworks. In short he says they don't know and he is kind furious that the government has been lying to them and in the meanwhile, they have to battle with the problems that are driving them crazy. Like I said before it is very unlikely that the craft seen in the PBB could belong to anyone other than TT's and/or ETs.









						What are the most plausible explanations of Navy pilots seeing hypersonic objects at 30K feet, objects with no visible engine and sometim...
					

Answer has been deleted




					www.quora.com
				




The answer has been deleted, but here's the copy I saved elsewhere...



> Don’t be naive and think the three USS Nimitz/Go Fast/Gimbal events are the only ones on the “official” books. Luis Elizondo, director of the governmental AATIP, has claimed there were “hundreds” of other incidents in the recent past which are not cleared for public release. But we needn’t care— there are thousands of governmental records (as disclosed via the Freedom of Information act) describing these craft with insane maneuverability as far back as the 40s. So, these advanced crafts do exist— there is no question about it. Here’s what we can say, noting this technology has stayed somewhat stagnant since the days of the “foo fighter” UFOs in WWII:
> 
> 
> *Someone *has discovered a propulsion technology which does not rely on jets of gas or emission of particles, otherwise, we would see contrails. There are no sonic booms as the craft accelerates. This is a hint that the makers are using some esoteric form of propulsion (related to the gravitational field?).
> *Someone *has discovered how to make: right-angled turns in all directions at supersonic speeds; almost instantaneous acceleration from rest and similarly almost instantaneous deceleration from supersonic speeds to rest. (I said ALMOST instantaneous— it may well APPEAR instantaneous due to an altered metric tensor. Thus, the apparent time taken for a maneuver would not be the same for the occupants of the aircraft.)
> Thus, *someone *has discovered how to mitigate g-forces to a very large extent. A highly trained pilot can withstand about 10g’s. But craft described by the military regularly force their internal contents (note: occupants, if there are any) to experience hundreds of g’s. The USS Nimitz UFO dropped from 28 000 feet to 50 feet in 0.78 seconds … That is, for reference, 10 900 m/s. The craft’s other “buddies” (similarly sized capsules) previously had dropped from 80 000 feet to 20 000 feet in a few seconds.
> At the same time, these crafts regularly “glow” in different colors. Red and green “firey” balls were infamously known as “foo fighters” in WWII, following Allies and Axis fighter craft in the night. Thus, the plasma field over their craft is a hint that indeed there is a lot of energy being produced by the craft since the particles are highly excited.
> Among the great conspiracy theories is that they are actually the product of US government black projects. These contracts are assumed to be given out to Lockeed Skunkworks or Northrop Phantomworks. I do work on aerodynamics at Lockheed Martin at Forth Worth and have a few friends from the Skunkworks division here. Whenever I have tried to ask them about the feasibility of black projects resulting in these aircraft, they flat out say that our engineering methodologies are not far enough developed to build such craft. Besides, why would the US be pumping out $60 B on F-35s that can barely reach Mach 2?
> 
> And if we did— if we have this advanced technology for ~60+ years— why aren’t they being used in warfare today, at least in an unacknowledged capacity? Why aren’t they being used anywhere in the world in other technological applications? Lastly, how did the US (or Nazi Germany/Soviet Union, if you buy that angle) develop these craft with a comparatively primitive aerospace engineering field in the 40s? That last question is one big problem because these aircraft (with the exact same characteristics and maneuverability) have been seen at least since the 40s.
> 
> The senior-most radar technologist on the USS Nimitz, Kevin Day (also the man who ordered the intercept of the tic tac UFO) claimed there were “hundreds” of other companion craft which dropped from 80 000 ft to 20 000 ft to monitor the situation. Only one, which dropped to 50 feet, tangoed with the two jets. On his appearance of the second episode of _Unidentified,_ he says that the fleet made it all the way to Guadalupe Island near Santa Catalina Island, upon which they disappeared from radar (meaning they had all submerged into the ocean). This really stuck out to me … because Santa Catalina is a hotspot for flying objects submerging into the ocean. Luis Elizondo hinted that, although he couldn’t go into specifics, the military probably had a strong presence on the island, judging from the many radar sites installed. Thus we are left with a stronger impetus to speculate that the US government does indeed have something to do with the tic tac. One of the petty officers’ claim that “men in plainclothes” confiscated the tapes makes more sense now. If indeed this is the case, I must say, most of the aerospace engineers who are not privy to the details of how the craft works are being played for fools. Why are we wasting so much sweat, hard work, money when some select group of people literally have technology that is beyond the reach of modern physics? The entire world and its reliance on power would change … but then again, is that a good thing for the powerful who rely on oil and gas for geopolitical control?


----------



## Robert Zwilling

From the sound of the program I wish I still had the History Channel but you got to give up something when you cut out the cable stations and pay almost nothing for TV. Perhaps it will show up on Amazon. 

The idea that alien craft from wherever would have living beings on them is a big leap. UFO must contain exterrestrial life is pure Hollywood. If we ask why would aliens want to come here so will they ask themselves the same question. It's a waste of money unless this place is a galactic sideshow and the alien ships are merely filming our infamous exploits so we can be seen on the galactic history channel. So many of them coming by perhaps some of them do have living beings on them. They might be in hypersleep, so the question is are we interesting enough to be waken from a sound sleep? That answer is probably yes. Just to be able to see people flying vehicles loaded with live atomic weapons all over the place while the citizens are told to duck and cover under cardboard shelters is probably worth the experience. Maybe it's one of those things where you had to be there. Like how USSR, Soviet, And Russia were all interchangeable. More than likely there were plenty of people who had no idea what the letters USSR stood for, except the R had to be Russia, like US of A. And North American Air Defense had nothing to do with Canada, it was America all the way, or just the name the united states, as if that explains everything when it has nothing to do with reality. 

How is the information the aliens collect sent back to the galactic history channel? Assuming they want it to be somewhat live perhaps subspace transmissions exist. I think that would be far more likely to be able to send information by subspace than living people. If putting people into long term parking/sleep doesn't work, perhaps cloned life could be grown on demand to do what the machines can't do. After the clone does it's job, it goes to clone heaven. Then again, maybe the galactic history channel has billions of stories on it and no one can keep up with it anyway. Who cares if the new releases are 1000 years old.  All anyone could think about Project BlueBook was the stuff they never made public. That had to have the real reports of alien encounters and pictures of crashed alien ships. Canceling Project BluBook only got rid of the public entity people could shake their fists at. All the reports are still investigated. Maybe the saucers crashed because of distracted driving, be unable to comprehend how an atomic powered stone age society could exist without blowing itself up at least once a week. That is something that can only exist in the daytime dramas seen on Galactivison.


----------



## ctg

Robert Zwilling said:


> From the sound of the program I wish I still had the History Channel but you got to give up something when you cut out the cable stations and pay almost nothing for TV. Perhaps it will show up on Amazon



I don't know. Maybe. It's just you have to think it in a way that they're bringing the issue out to the mass public, and all of it is going to be happening in a slow, controlled way, even if it has a slightly speed up with the revelations in the last weeks, months. 

I didn't wanted to go deep into the offtopic and brought things out that will take the whole issue far away from the Project Blue Book. But since we are here

1) The US Navy has acknowledge the presence of the UAP's and ... USO's. Unknown Submerged Objects. The Navy sonar technicians, especially those working in the submarine fleet, doesn't want to talk publicly about these encounters. It's just the phenomenom's has been confirmed to be real, and the aerial encounters happened for more often than the pilots would like. 

The journalist have also asked the Pentagon to provide some answers, and the Pentagon has confirmed the new Navy regulations, and that they study the phenomenon as a real thing.  

2) The US has at least one intact alien craft under the Special Access Programs and they've been studying it years, if not decades.  They also have crashed vehicles and specimens. Like the officials, I am trying to avoid using alien word, because we don't know what's really real and what is the propaganda that the US government produced since 1940's. 

3) The SAP programs dealing with these things has been compartmentalised so well, that the private contractors working on the said items has been removed from the traditional SAP oversights. In fact there is none and you can only get into the programs via an invitation, and a vetting process to give you a clearance. 

Here are a few videos you might want to check out, 


Spoiler: Admiral Wilson Leak - 1













Spoiler: New York Post - The Basement Office series - UFOs, UAPs and USOs













Spoiler: New York Post on the Pentagon Spokeperson Revelations













Spoiler: An interview and Q&A with the Navy WingCommander chasing the "Tic-Tac"













Spoiler: A rare interview with Bob Lazar and Q&A on S4, Area51, alien craft and the propulsion tech













Spoiler: Linda Molton Howe on '47 crash retrivals and the alien autopsy











There are more under those channels and subjects, I just linked the first ones and latest revelations. I am also sorry if this breaks anyone, as the subject has been demonised by the propaganda that the humanity started to believe we were alone in the universe. And as Carl Sagan once said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," therefore most of the information is now coming through these channels, and not via the news media. 

The people has to understand that they have been lied and ridiculed, and yes, it is going to take a lot to figure out what's real, and what's made propaganda to hide the truth. The craft that the US has in their possession is WAY BEYOND anything we can produce, and the scientists/engineers that has been working on them, are in the point where they need help from the larger humanity. 

In simple terms they cannot go forward as the encounters with the UAP has become more frequent and somewhat dangerous for the pilots and the passengers. Luckily, we are at the point, where we can now talk about these things and not go nuts, because the technology is so advanced that it resembles magic, when you operate it. If anything, now we know that the humanity is still at the beginning point, and there is so much that we have still learn.  

Apologies if this freaks any of you. It was not my intention.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Here is something for you to read and think from the Physicist worked for the infamous LM Skunkworks. In short he says they don't know and he is kind furious that the government has been lying to them and in the meanwhile, they have to battle with the problems that are driving them crazy. Like I said before it is very unlikely that the craft seen in the PBB could belong to anyone other than TT's and/or ETs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t be naive and think the three USS Nimitz/Go Fast/Gimbal events are the only ones on the “official” books. Luis Elizondo, director of the governmental AATIP, has claimed there were “hundreds” of other incidents in the recent past which are not cleared for public release. But we needn’t care— there are thousands of governmental records (as disclosed via the Freedom of Information act) describing these craft with insane maneuverability as far back as the 40s. So, these advanced crafts do exist— there is no question about it. Here’s what we can say, noting this technology has stayed somewhat stagnant since the days of the “foo fighter” UFOs in WWII:
> 
> 
> *Someone *has discovered a propulsion technology which does not rely on jets of gas or emission of particles, otherwise, we would see contrails. There are no sonic booms as the craft accelerates. This is a hint that the makers are using some esoteric form of propulsion (related to the gravitational field?).
> *Someone *has discovered how to make: right-angled turns in all directions at supersonic speeds; almost instantaneous acceleration from rest and similarly almost instantaneous deceleration from supersonic speeds to rest. (I said ALMOST instantaneous— it may well APPEAR instantaneous due to an altered metric tensor. Thus, the apparent time taken for a maneuver would not be the same for the occupants of the aircraft.)
> Thus, *someone *has discovered how to mitigate g-forces to a very large extent. A highly trained pilot can withstand about 10g’s. But craft described by the military regularly force their internal contents (note: occupants, if there are any) to experience hundreds of g’s. The USS Nimitz UFO dropped from 28 000 feet to 50 feet in 0.78 seconds … That is, for reference, 10 900 m/s. The craft’s other “buddies” (similarly sized capsules) previously had dropped from 80 000 feet to 20 000 feet in a few seconds.
> At the same time, these crafts regularly “glow” in different colors. Red and green “firey” balls were infamously known as “foo fighters” in WWII, following Allies and Axis fighter craft in the night. Thus, the plasma field over their craft is a hint that indeed there is a lot of energy being produced by the craft since the particles are highly excited.
> Among the great conspiracy theories is that they are actually the product of US government black projects. These contracts are assumed to be given out to Lockeed Skunkworks or Northrop Phantomworks. I do work on aerodynamics at Lockheed Martin at Forth Worth and have a few friends from the Skunkworks division here. Whenever I have tried to ask them about the feasibility of black projects resulting in these aircraft, they flat out say that our engineering methodologies are not far enough developed to build such craft. Besides, why would the US be pumping out $60 B on F-35s that can barely reach Mach 2?
> 
> And if we did— if we have this advanced technology for ~60+ years— why aren’t they being used in warfare today, at least in an unacknowledged capacity? Why aren’t they being used anywhere in the world in other technological applications? Lastly, how did the US (or Nazi Germany/Soviet Union, if you buy that angle) develop these craft with a comparatively primitive aerospace engineering field in the 40s? That last question is one big problem because these aircraft (with the exact same characteristics and maneuverability) have been seen at least since the 40s.
> 
> The senior-most radar technologist on the USS Nimitz, Kevin Day (also the man who ordered the intercept of the tic tac UFO) claimed there were “hundreds” of other companion craft which dropped from 80 000 ft to 20 000 ft to monitor the situation. Only one, which dropped to 50 feet, tangoed with the two jets. On his appearance of the second episode of _Unidentified,_ he says that the fleet made it all the way to Guadalupe Island near Santa Catalina Island, upon which they disappeared from radar (meaning they had all submerged into the ocean). This really stuck out to me … because Santa Catalina is a hotspot for flying objects submerging into the ocean. Luis Elizondo hinted that, although he couldn’t go into specifics, the military probably had a strong presence on the island, judging from the many radar sites installed. Thus we are left with a stronger impetus to speculate that the US government does indeed have something to do with the tic tac. One of the petty officers’ claim that “men in plainclothes” confiscated the tapes makes more sense now. If indeed this is the case, I must say, most of the aerospace engineers who are not privy to the details of how the craft works are being played for fools. Why are we wasting so much sweat, hard work, money when some select group of people literally have technology that is beyond the reach of modern physics? The entire world and its reliance on power would change … but then again, is that a good thing for the powerful who rely on oil and gas for geopolitical control?
Click to expand...


Bob Bigelow's analysis seems quite rational.
The existence of these vehicles has been extensively documented, yet the technology behind them does not exist. Therefore, the *"someone"* who developed these vehicles was, in all likelihood, not human.
If access to this technology literally fell from the sky, it's not inconceivable that we could adapt it for our own purposes without completely understanding how it works. We use technological devices developed by humans every day -- with little or no knowledge about their inner workings.
Bigelow's answer as to why we aren't openly using this acquired technology also makes sense. Those in power want to stay in power, with the full cooperation of a corporate-controlled democracy. It has always been and will continue to be all about money, regardless of potential benefits for Humanity as a whole.



Robert Zwilling said:


> The idea that alien craft from wherever would have living beings on them is a big leap. UFO must contain exterrestrial life is pure Hollywood. If we ask why would aliens want to come here so will they ask themselves the same question. It's a waste of money unless this place is a galactic sideshow and the alien ships are merely filming our infamous exploits so we can be seen on the galactic history channel. So many of them coming by perhaps some of them do have living beings on them. They might be in hypersleep, so the question is are we interesting enough to be waken from a sound sleep? That answer is probably yes. Just to be able to see people flying vehicles loaded with live atomic weapons all over the place while the citizens are told to duck and cover under cardboard shelters is probably worth the experience. Maybe it's one of those things where you had to be there. Like how USSR, Soviet, And Russia were all interchangeable. More than likely there were plenty of people who had no idea what the letters USSR stood for, except the R had to be Russia, like US of A. And North American Air Defense had nothing to do with Canada, it was America all the way, or just the name the united states, as if that explains everything when it has nothing to do with reality.
> 
> How is the information the aliens collect sent back to the galactic history channel? Assuming they want it to be somewhat live perhaps subspace transmissions exist. I think that would be far more likely to be able to send information by subspace than living people. If putting people into long term parking/sleep doesn't work, perhaps cloned life could be grown on demand to do what the machines can't do. After the clone does it's job, it goes to clone heaven. Then again, maybe the galactic history channel has billions of stories on it and no one can keep up with it anyway. Who cares if the new releases are 1000 years old. All anyone could think about Project BlueBook was the stuff they never made public. That had to have the real reports of alien encounters and pictures of crashed alien ships. Canceling Project BluBook only got rid of the public entity people could shake their fists at. All the reports are still investigated. Maybe the saucers crashed because of distracted driving, be unable to comprehend how an atomic powered stone age society could exist without blowing itself up at least once a week. That is something that can only exist in the daytime dramas seen on Galactivison.


I've long seen an extraterrestrial presence on our planet as exceptionally improbable, but not impossible. While the concept of the Human Race as as a freakish curiosity worthy of a dramatic series on the Galactivision Network is amusing, who are we to accurately surmise what might be motivating our visitors?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Therefore, the *"someone"* who developed these vehicles was, in all likelihood, not human.



You forget TimeTravel and Multiverse. I know it's whole another bag of crazy, but all in all, it's a possibility, since the Multiverse has been proven to be real. TT, however ... man, I hope we don't go there yet.


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## REBerg

I'll give you  the Multiuniverse, but Time moves only in one direction -- forward (and already too quickly for most of us). 
Does the Multiuniverse proof include interconnections? That could explain how UFO technology ended up in our version of the Universe.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Does the Multiuniverse proof include interconnections?



Well, it's another dimension, or a parallel universe. As you know it can easily end up in the crazy place, if you have infinite universe and infinite parallel worlds, and you start quickly to think is this real or even possible. If the UAPs are some other dimension, then sure, it could explain somethings, but why some civilisations in the parallel worlds would have survived the extinction level events? Is it possible that Terra solar system at the edge of the Milkyway galaxy is actually a young one, compared to older species close to the centre of the galaxy as Vernor Vinge suggested in his books, describing the slow zone?


----------



## Robert Zwilling

REBerg said:


> it's not inconceivable that we could adapt it for our own purposes without completely understanding how it works.



The entire field of genetic and bio engineering is solely based on copying things that nature does everyday and I don't believe for a second that we have anything but the only slightest inkling of how any of it really works. Sometimes things are kept secret not because of fear but because it is not clear how to keep control of the ultimate profits and whoever has them doesn't want to give up the money they could be making.


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## Robert Zwilling

REBerg said:


> Time moves only in one direction -- forward



In another thread someone posted a link to an article that speculated that time might not be so anchored down such that it might be starting later or earlier in some places making seemingly instantaneous events not violations of the faster than light principle. Maybe it could even be going sideways.


----------



## ctg

I think our problem with accepting the reality is that we humans think often in human centric way. For some reason we thought Earth was the centre of solar system, or that it was flat. We could hardly accept that the Moon was not made of cheese, because that tickled the public mind and it was favourite among many.

If you check that Mr Lazar interview, he explain the UAP technology as a magic, that it is way beyond our way of thinking, or even capabilities of manufacturing. Yet, we celebrate new findings, like the God Particle, or even the dreaded Multiverse, because it was printed on the paper. Yet, for some reason humanity has a big problem of accepting that some other civilisation might be older, or even more advanced than us.

I know that the usual reference here is the Spanish wiping out the Inkas, because they were advanced compared to the lost tribe. UAPs and USOs go way back in the history. We have myths all around the world, telling similar stories about the 'star beings' coming down to Earth and teaching people about science and technology. For some reason, and I think it's the taboo angle, as the ridicule has been going for long time, that the human centric way of thinking is over riding the critical thinking as we cannot accept the ET angle.

So, in my mind, it leaves a few possibilities, a) there are beings that have advanced the technology so much beyond our knowledge and understanding that their things seem to work beyond our current understanding of the physics, b) it's all hoax, c) there is another race of humans and they are way, way more advanced than us, d) the reality is a mix of ET's and Dimensional Beings, and therefore we are not alone, but we are a younger race that hasn't opened eyes yet to see what is going around us.

I wish I would have the answers, because it is straining me to fight the sea of doubt and believe this not just some elaborate hoax.


----------



## ctg

Staff Physicist at Lockheed Martin mirror link Ibteesam Reaz, Staff Physicist at Lockheed Martin on U.S. Navy TicTac UFO Incidents


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## REBerg

*Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation
1.05 The Atomic Connection*
I'm not a UFO zealot, but I'm finding this series unexpectedly credible.
I was unaware of the UFO-nuclear link. It would make sense that another species would be intensely interested in human atomic developments.
Are they seeking to prevent our possible self-destruction or their own destruction, should we take our nuclear weapons off the planet? Both? Neither?
The show also raises the theory that the U.S. government has abandoned its own policy of secrecy for one of active disinformation to mask its super-secret development of advance weapons. I was surprised at the question of whether the show itself is also a part of the government disinformation effort.
The first season of this series will end with the next episode. I haven't watched the first three, but I'll look for them on demand.
If additional seasons are coming, a spin-off of this series to a thread of its own might be in order.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Are they seeking to prevent our possible self-destruction or their own destruction, should we take our nuclear weapons off the planet? Both? Neither?



Well, as far as I understand they don't want us to destroy ourselves. With their technology they could do it easily and there would be next to nothing we could do about it. It's just how things are I'm afraid.



REBerg said:


> I was unaware of the UFO-nuclear link. It would make sense that another species would be intensely interested in human atomic developments.



Maybe you have seen it, but you always ignored because of the ridicule factor. Here is something for you to watch. Again, Richard Dolan is doing another great favour to the public as he provides details to the case.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> The show also raises the theory that the U.S. government has abandoned its own policy of secrecy for one of active disinformation to mask its super-secret development of advance weapons. I was surprised at the question of whether the show itself is also a part of the government disinformation effort.



I cannot remember if I said about the secrecy at some point and said that the taboo cannot last forever. I know we talked about the ridicule factor and how thing were made to appear to the great public. Today, after all the exposure, things that are coming out, living with the secret is harder than controlling the disclosure. 

In a way, humanity is in a transition point, where we can start to accept that we are not alone, and we most probably never were. The universe is such a huge place that the denialism is silly and in the future, people would laugh at the idea of trying to deny something that is true. You cannot control this issue, and if tomorrow, they would show publicly, the Authorities could not deny. 

So, there is a reason for why this is happening now, and you can almost guess where it all ends. Either a) this is all huge hoax, and then we know, or b) one day, we'll have to accept that they are already among us, and the humanity is moving increasingly towards the point, where we have to accept the reality of being larger community with some alien beings that most likely far older than most of us realised.

You could even say that the science fiction is becoming reality in more ways than we could ever guess. I know that it is kind of freakish to think that thing we imagine become reality. Maybe the most scariest thought is that our collective consciousness could shape things. One day that might be real, but we are not there. In fact, the humanity is going through so many revolutionary things, because of the information age. Living today, in our society, you cannot escape the truth jumping on your face everywhere and things are happening rabidly. 

In just few years the whole subject of UAPs, USOs, aliens, multi-verse and what it means has become apparent. People are shaped by their beliefs, as those things become real. So, for the government trying to control this subject, it is going to be so tasking to keep the secret, when its everywhere. You would be shooting yourself in the foot by trying to claim that the UFO believers are crazy and the phenomenon isn't real. 

I know from personal experience how gut wrenching it is, when you realise that you've been lied, and manipulated for a long, long time. The fact is that the truth always win and the lies has a limited lifespan. I am kind of scared of what is coming out at the end of the tunnel, because of the taboo factor. It makes me wonder what they have been hiding, and why. Today we know that there is something and they are coming out, while they are trying their very best to control the narrative, and keep the leaches in the hands of the power players.

If it's true that they have foreign technology, and that to us, it appears like a magic, it is no wonder why they have come to a point, where they need help of the greater public to understand things. After all, our combined consciousness is the most powerful thing in this world. Putting together our minds and will can change everything. 

Maybe, if today, you read Sagan's Contact novel or rewatch that movie with Jodie Foster, you start to understand the ending. The humanity was simply not ready for things, because we couldn't accept universal things, like for example God being an universal being.

It is right that we look deep into the science and develop through it our collective consciousness, the knowledge. But there are in reality so, so many things we are only beginning to understand .. or accept. At the end of day, all of you have to accept or deny, and if you accept, it will shape your beliefs. Denialism isn't taking us anywhere.


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> Well, as far as I understand they don't want us to destroy ourselves. With their technology they could do it easily and there would be next to nothing we could do about it. It's just how things are I'm afraid.


I assume that any species which has the technology to visit also has the technology to destroy us. I hope that such evolved visitors have acquired the wisdom not to turn their weapons of mass destruction on us, even though our nuclear weapons might have the power to destroy them.
That puts our visitors in the unenviable position of shepherding us along to maturity -- intervening if we attempt to annihilate ourselves or to take our hostile ways into the greater universe.
I wish them success.


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> That puts our visitors in the unenviable position of shepherding us along to maturity -- intervening if we attempt to annihilate ourselves or to take our hostile ways into the greater universe.



According to some we are already involved into the interstellar war, and that there is a hostile party out there that would prefer us to get wiped out. In that same theory we have allies and we have been winning ... so far. But they also say that war has been going a millennia or longer.


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> According to some we are already involved into the interstellar war, and that there is a hostile party out there that would prefer us to get wiped out. In that same theory we have allies and we have been winning ... so far. But they also say that war has been going a millennia or longer.


That's a dark twist.
Other species are not preserving us because they see as having potential to become respectable fellow citizens of the Universe. They want to harness our belligerent nature as recruits for an eternal war.
Our killer instinct is our best quality?


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## ctg

REBerg said:


> Our killer instinct is our best quality?



No. Think about the nature, even if the aliens would be peaceful, they have had to encounter violence in the universe. Because we don't know what is real and what is propaganda it's so difficult to assess the situation.


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## REBerg

Just watched  more than 3 hours of a 5-hour "extended" version of the episodes thus far.
While the information seems solid and well-corroborated, the investigative team really does not have a lot to work with. The repetition is getting annoying.
I'm hoping that this first season serves as wedge, prying open access to more extensive evidence the government may be warehousing.


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## Lew Rockwell Fan

I admit I didn't read the whole thread, so my apologies if someone already said it, but my friend Tom told me he's sooner believe an attention  whore would lie than an ETI would cross light years to stick something up some  human's  butt.  

FWIW, I have seen a UFO. One Hell of a UFO. My mother was with me. She saw it too. Went by so fast it was over before we could both exclaim "Did you see *that*?!?" Made no noise audible from inside a car with engine idling and AC running. About the size of the full moon, so it was either low, fast, and strangely quiet, or high, huge, and moving at meteoric speed. This was near Fort Benning, so I called them and asked about it. They said they knew nothing and didn't have any suggestions. Approximately an equilateral triangle glowing a uniform green. Personally, I think it was full of spooks from Virginia instead of LGMs from Vega.


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## ctg

Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> FWIW, I have seen a UFO. One Hell of a UFO. My mother was with me. She saw it too. Went by so fast it was over before we could both exclaim "Did you see *that*?!?" Made no noise audible from inside a car with engine idling and AC running. About the size of the full moon, so it was either low, fast, and strangely quiet, or high, huge, and moving at meteoric speed.



I believe in this description. You cannot go in the atmosphere with speed without creating heat or leaving behind some sort of vapour trail. You most certainly cannot do it silently. That is the thing that makes the difference. 



Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> This was near Fort Benning, so I called them and asked about it. They said they knew nothing and didn't have any suggestions.



They often don't know. Honestly. There are loads and loads of people in the service, who are trained observers, but when they don't know, it's most likely going to be something that's not ours. Because of the ridicule factor and taboo, it is also hard for them to admit that it was Unknown Ariel Phenomenon. That's why the US Navy is changing their regulations, and that same trend is going to continue to other branches and to the civil administration.


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## Lew Rockwell Fan

ctg said:


> Unknown Ariel Phenomenon.


When I mentioned "spooks" I wasn't thinking of  the Shakespearean kind.


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## ctg

Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> When I mentioned "spooks" I wasn't thinking of the Shakespearean kind.



I didn't think so. Spooks definitely know more than let out and to be honest, if the disclosure says that they've tried reverse engineering etc. I don't think it's going to surprise anyone.


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## ctg

Keep in your mind that Adamski is the person, who took the shot for the famous "I want to believe" poster. He was active during the Project Blue Book era, and he supposedly met with the ETs. At there the whole story becomes unbelievable, and you might have seen his shots of the 'rayguns' that similar to plastic toys.

I don't know how much propaganda effort was to put in to make his story ridiculous. So, if you'll watch this Adamski foundation researcher speaking in the Mufon conference, keep in your mind all that you have learned about space and science. Mister Steckling presents his finding through the founded footage and newspaper clips throughout the years. So, if you watch this, look it as if he's presenting you evidence in the courtroom. Nobody is asking you to believe, therefore, it is essential that you'll make your own conclusions and apply some critical thinking.

Q&A at the end is excellent and more thought provoking than the evidence chain.



Spoiler: Rare George Adamski UFO Sightings From The Archive They Said Didn't Exist


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## REBerg

If the evidence being presented here is factual, we can no longer argue whether UFOs and their related acronyms exist. The argument focuses on an explanation for their presence.

The assertion that these objects are military vehicles created by secret, exceptional advances in human technology, is the weakest of the possibilities being offered. That leaves two extraterrestrial explanations out there.

The first is that humans have reverse-engineered captured extraterrestrial technology and adapted it for their own purposes. That explanation is not much stronger than the first.

The second it that these vehicles are genuinely extraterrestrial. That still does not explain what they are doing here.

That’s what makes this investigative approach to the question of intent interesting. Dare we hope for an answer?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> If the evidence being presented here is factual, we can no longer argue whether UFOs and their related acronyms exist. The argument focuses on an explanation for their presence.
> 
> The assertion that these objects are military vehicles created by secret, exceptional advances in human technology, is the weakest of the possibilities being offered. That leaves two extraterrestrial explanations out there.
> 
> The first is that humans have reverse-engineered captured extraterrestrial technology and adapted it for their own purposes. That explanation is not much stronger than the first.
> 
> The second it that these vehicles are genuinely extraterrestrial. That still does not explain what they are doing here.



You are forgetting something. The ancient human aspect. It is possible that the ancient civilisation found a way to escape Earth's gravity well and move into the stars. If you remember the antarctica scene at the end of the PBB, that was my hypothesis.

What we don't know about them is how many species and if there is TT's or Dimensional Jumpers in it. That is a big thing to answer, and if they'll have an answer, why it was necessary to hide from the public?

Watch these three episodes with critical thinking in mind. 



Spoiler: LMH on the Antartica Leaks 























REBerg said:


> Dare we hope for an answer?



I can only speculate the reasons.


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> You are forgetting something. The ancient human aspect. It is possible that the ancient civilisation found a way to escape Earth's gravity well and move into the stars


Our ET visitors are just long-lost relatives who have come back home to see what we've made of ourselves? We must give them a great feeling of self-accomplishment.
This would be an explanation for why they haven't destroyed us. While they may literally look down on us, they retain a nostalgic fondness for their backward ancestors.
I'd be okay with that. Perhaps they will have enough pity to save us from ourselves. Hence, the attention being given to our nuclear developments?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Our ET visitors are just long-lost relatives who have come back home to see what we've made of ourselves? We must give them a great feeling of self-accomplishment.



Yes, it's a possibility. 



REBerg said:


> Hence, the attention being given to our nuclear developments?


Yeah, I agree, but then there's the element of older species. Far older than we are, which allegedly has seen the galaxy already and possibly witness some to nuke themselves to oblivion.  We cannot know for sure, because the mainstream history explanation doesn't allow that sort of thing to happen, and it is still firmly believed that the pottery wheel was invented  3129 BC. 

Yet, when you look at the archelogical findings, especially ones from this year. For example thirty to forty thousand years ago, Neanderthals knew how to use glue to make their weapons hold firms. In the same time period, Davisons knew how to make a drill, pottery, cultivate crops, domesticate animals and so on. The similar traces can be found up until the last catalysm at the Younger Dryads twelve thousand years ago, and it doesn't add up to the official explanation.

Gobekli Tepe was buried underground at same time period, The Sphinx weather erosion patters fits the same period. Peru's mysterious multishaped Inca Roca walls at Cusco the same thing, and we still don't have a technology to match their work. Puma Punku and the H shaped blocks points to same kind of track. 

There are evidence all over the place that says there was advanced civilisation. Maybe even the Atlantis was real.


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## Lew Rockwell Fan

LOL, I think I'll make a T-shirt that says:
_Have you been anally probed by an ET?_
Probably get me thrown out of Walmart.


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## Cathbad

Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> LOL, I think I'll make a T-shirt that says:
> _Have you been anally probed by an ET?_
> Probably get me thrown out of Walmart.


Have you _seen_ what people wear to Walmart?


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## Lew Rockwell Fan

ctg said:


> I didn't think so.


Ummm . . . that was a pun, actually. Ariel was a character in The Tempest - based on my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother, the notorious spelling Nazi.


----------



## ctg

Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> LOL, I think I'll make a T-shirt that says:
> _Have you been anally probed by an ET?_
> Probably get me thrown out of Walmart.



You Americans and your probes. Why it has to be always anal? 



Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> Ummm . . . that was a pun, actually. Ariel was a character in The Tempest - based on my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother, the notorious spelling Nazi.



LULZ ... so first the probe and then you confess on being an extremist. What's next?


----------



## Lew Rockwell Fan

ctg said:


> LULZ ... so first the probe and then you confess on being an extremist. What's next?


"to", not "on" . . . [And I know my comma and my quotation mark have an inappropriate relationship.  Punc lib!]


----------



## ctg

Lew Rockwell Fan said:


> "to", not "on"



I'm so sorry man, and to be honest, after Viv's death I've been struggling with some grammar. It's not as bad what it was years ago, but some things are deeply rooted and need a lot of practice, since my grammar police is no more.


----------



## REBerg

*Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation
1.06 The Revelation*
I don't think that this finale lived up to its title.
I suppose getting an interview with a UFO pilot -- detailing its home planet and reasons for taunting U.S. Navy pilots -- was too much to expect.  Elizondo's mission, though, has not been without success.
With the help of the Italians and political heavyweights like Harry Reid, however, Elizondo  has moved Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program evidence into the public eye. He and his team may also be credited with motivating new Navy guidelines that encourage pilots to report UFO encounters with less fear of ridicule.
President Reagan's belief that nothing would unite the nations of Earth like a threat from an alien species was sad, but probably true. If the UFO visitors should prove to be benign, access to their technology will become yet another motive for international conflict.
The ETs had better be expert administrators.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> If the UFO visitors should prove to be benign, access to their technology will become yet another motive for international conflict.



I'd like you to watch this and then make the same conclusion. 



Spoiler: Von Braun Predictions


----------



## Robert Zwilling

Might as well add more choices to the possibilities. Continue to ignore us and just continue with the fly bys, maybe it's a contest to see who can come the closest, being positively seen without leaving clear cut evidence. Benevolent, here to help. For military purposes, either conquest or alliance against someone else, includes possible use of stargates to expedite troop transfers. Or first contact is made by organized crime with a lot to offer and one rule, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Could also be tourists looking for the vast lush garden planet that no longer exists.


----------



## ctg

Robert Zwilling said:


> Or first contact is made by organized crime with a lot to offer and one rule, don't bite the hand that feeds you.


What if the first contact has already been made? In the unindentified they kept saying that these things has been happening for a long time, therefore, it is possible that they've already made contact, and it's not anything like what we writers has been dreaming. Somehow, I also keep thinking about the ST's prime directive, and why there has not been an invasion, and I always come back the same point in the circle, the conclusion that in some level we have already made the connection, and now it seems that the unknown is forcing the Authorities to reveal their hand. 

I wish we would know more than we do, because coming out from the taboo, is such a hard thing. It breaks people, it shatters their view on current and the past activities as you start to think what they've been hiding all this time?


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> I'd like you to watch this and then make the same conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Von Braun Predictions


This doesn't change my conclusion that benevolent aliens might be an additional cause of international conflict. Every nation will want a piece of the action, and they are unlikely to wait patiently in line for any technological goodies the ETs might bestow upon us.
Carol Rosin doesn't cover any new ground with the revelation that fear mongering is good for the military-industrial complex bottom line, regardless of whether the "enemies" are communists, terrorists or aliens, and regardless of whether the threats are based on lies or truth.
Rosin's call for all earthly residents to live in peace and harmony, with liberty and justice for all, was also nothing new. I'm glad that Wernher von Braun put a good-hearted person in charge of keeping weapons of war out of space I hope she succeeds.
Meanwhile, the purpose of ETs in our atmosphere remains a mystery.


----------



## ctg

So here's next piece in this soft disclosure. We can start calling it as such, because these events keep repeating and it seems that we are moving towards the point where it's obvious that we are not alone ... or rather has never been alone. 

To me, personally the case looks as if we are a younger civilisation in far older planet that has carried on its shoulder many lost ones. Just as an example you can look geoglyphs and cave paintings, or even inca's strange carvings, you soon start to think where this evidence leads. 









						Unacknowledged | Netflix
					

Noted UFO expert Dr. Steven Greer interviews witnesses and presents classified documents concerning the existence of extraterrestrials.




					www.netflix.com


----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

Yes, the whole thing has come down on this autumn period. They had even started the propaganda to downplay all of it. Everything that had been revealed. I haven't checked, but the PBB might be on the cancellation block, because of it. We know how much interest this topic caused this year and what it stirred around the world, but the thing is, nothing changed.

The taboo on this topic is rooted deeply into the fabric of our society. There are a lot of people who don't want to talk about it, and they are offended if you bring the topic up. Yet, we all acknowledge that something has changed, because there are those who can now more openly speak about it, without getting ridiculed. Although you might still get a stigma of a ufoguy/girl hanging over your head.

Maybe the most epic thing is that some many now acknowledge that there we are not alone. Not in this one, and not in the other ones if you taking into account the multiverse and all chaos it brings with it. It really feels that there is going to be some sort of disclosure sooner rather than later, because we cannot go back to being quiet about it.

This year alone, the mainstream news media put out articles that lead to sort of witch-hunt for the truth, and it's still going. What's most amazing thing is that we also got confirmation about the ancient lost civilisations like Denisovans being advanced enough to build monolithic structures. Some of those ancients things that goes we past the Younger Dryads and well into the last ice-age. The age of mammals.

When you think about the whole picture, you start to see that humanity's history is long and it is very likely that we were visited in the past, but for some reason we suffered a cultural amnesia as well. None of us has evidence to build up the whole picture, but the theory points out that they have been watching us for a long, long, long time. But that also leads to the manipulation theory.

In the ST we have seen the society fighting this with the Prime Directives and yet, every once and a while they meddle with the business, even though it's considered sacrilege. Is it realistic to believe Roddenberry's ideas were wrong? Or will it doom us to know that there's next to nothing we can do if they decide to act and push the restart button?

Note, nothing points them being evil. Manipulative, yes, evil, no.


----------



## REBerg

*Project Blue Book*
*Season Premiere Tuesday, Jan 21 at 10/9c*​








						History is alive
					

Find out more about the shows on Sky HISTORY's TV channel, with plenty to read and watch on your favourite historical topics.




					www.history.com


----------



## ctg

You that picture makes me wonder if they are really going to bring out the other crashes vessels. If you saw the Bob Lazar documentary, you know that he mentions five other vehicles stored in the S4. It was also revealed last year that S4 can be located in the satellite photos by following the tracks and listening what Bob said. But as the show was left in '54 at the Washington DC mass sighting, I wonder if they'll bring out the denial in big scale and show what the military and Majestic-12 did during that time period?

The saucer suggests to me that they'll bring out the capture of Ebans. One that went to Los Alamos and another that went to live in a special cage at S-4. But it also suggest to me that they are going to follow the MIB plotline, and bringing out the hieroglyphs. By some photos and witness descriptions they are mix of Egyptians and Mayans, which would also explain the end sequence of the season 1. 

I know I'm speculating and they might not bring out the lost civilisation, but instead just show that the visitors has always been present and they have been watching us for a long, long time. It also interesting to note that a lot of conversation after the first season and History following the angle with TTSA own investigative program. Allegedly they are investigating the metamaterials in this year, but if that is the case, and the History channel wants to make the connection, the metamaterials are going to end up in the PBB as well.


----------



## ctg

So they are following the Roswell case, interesting.


----------



## REBerg

Intriguing. Of course, I'll be watching the new season.


Spoiler



Looks like, in one of the trailers, that the blonde Russian spy gets whacked -- literally.


I spent some time in Roswell a few years ago. Aliens are a big industry.




*One of the more striking sights upon arrival is the massive "retied" airliner graveyard at the airport.*





*Even the airport sign reflects the city's alien theme.*​


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> I spent some time in Roswell a few years ago. Aliens are a big industry.



My kind of place then, LOL. 

The only thing that bothers me is the heat and dust.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> My kind of place then, LOL.
> 
> The only thing that bothers me is the heat and dust.


It has plenty of both, even in the early spring when we were there.
The area seemed economically depressed. Without aliens, I don't think Roswell would have much going for it.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> The area seemed economically depressed. Without aliens, I don't think Roswell would have much going for it.



Well, it's sad, but what can you do about it? It might get revitalised once the coastal areas get swamped with the climate change.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E01 - The Roswell Incident - Part 1



It does not surprise me that the aliens are telepathic in nature. Our science, the main stream one doesn't allow it, because they cannot prove the theory. We simply don't have them walking among us. None that we know about, but if you look into the incident reports, especially the third kind, with close encounters the one thing that is consistent is telepathy.

In Quin's case it is plausible that he didn't just imagine it happening, but actually they contact him, convincing him of their presence unlike the man in the real life. But that's the thing, they do contact us, and possibly have been doing so for a very, very long time. In our myths, we have embaths, seers or clairvoyants, and we have telepaths. That isn't just coming out from the writers imagination. 

But that's the thing, we cannot prove it. Nobody can without alien presence or someone super rare presents the case as the real thing. For Quin's sake, it's too bad that he remembers removing the mask, therefore making the hypoxia claim true, unless the visitors somehow did stop the time, and then returned him safety back in the reality. 

That however then leads to the time-travel and eventually to the multi-verse, which I hoped we are not venturing into at this moment. The Project Blue Book is already enough of weird on its own. There is however the telepathy connection and allegedly the EBE-1 and EBE-2 that went to Los Alamos and to Nellis AFB destined to end of in the S-4 as part of the Area 51. 

I know it's a tall a claim, but it would also explain the whole crash case. The US military confiscated the evidence, and hid it in the desert, and among them were the pilots. In the official version all of them were dead, but the unofficial one speaks about the some of the Extraterrestrial Biological Entities being real. The conspiracy theories and government coverup however makes the whole thing so difficult to prove, because all the material that has been recovered has been redacted, and proven to be hoaxes.

What we know to be true are the metal pieces and I-beams marked with the hieroglyphs. The official story confirms them. People, farmer friends founds them and years later, some of them were recovered and then lost again. If you add there Colonel Corso's story about the other recoveries, you can start to formulate a picture that the whole coverup went mental and world believed it, because the Pentagon could not lie. After all they had won the war so why would they lie?

Maybe they thought that they could cover it, and the world would continue believing that we are alone, when the fact was that we'd been visited for a long time. Maybe for millions of years and among them has been truly celestial figures that has ended up as deities in our religions. And it frighten them so much so that they ordered these intelligence projects to study the phenomenon.

Today we are in the point, where we know that we are studying a phenomenon and the Pentagon isn't trying to absolutely silence it. Instead they've prepared and the president has set a leadership for the Space Forces, making the conflict in the near space a real possibility. The official story is the defence against the Russia and China, while the unofficial version speaks about the real chance of alien encounters. 

Corso also spoke about the telepathic creatures, and how they had communicated or got into the soldiers heads. So, for sake us of, it's safety assume that they are psionic, and have advanced capabilities compared to us. But what will happen is Hynek and Quinn goes are recovers the body? 

Harding might be able to silence the crash in town, but he could not take away the corpse.


----------



## REBerg

If all of season 2 is like the opener, it looks like speculation is going to take a back seat to discovery.


Spoiler



Simultaneously orchestrating cover-ups for Harding and uncovering cover-ups with Hynek, Quinn was already on a slippery slope before hooking up with Susie the Soviet Spy. His Air Force officer career ambitions are on the rocks, whether he realizes it or not.
I think it's great that Mimi, the neglected housewife, has become Betty the UFO group infiltrator and Hynek's partner in crime. it looks like she's setting herself up for a conflict between her husband and the group leader.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Quinn was already on a slippery slope before hooking up with Susie the Soviet Spy. His Air Force officer career ambitions are on the rocks, whether he realizes it or not.



Exactly, Suzy placed herself perfectly in that spot where she could exploit dear captain. She could not have done it with the dead handler. I am more surprised that she has dropped Mimi and focused instead on the captain. 



REBerg said:


> I think it's great that Mimi, the neglected housewife, has become Betty the UFO group infiltrator and Hynek's partner in crime. it looks like she's setting herself up for a conflict between her husband and the group leader.



There might be a romance in the pipeline. Mimi might not be interested, but he certainly is. I wonder how far that rabbit hole goes?


----------



## Lew Rockwell Fan

I didn't read the entire thread, so mea culpa if  it has already been covered, but this thread calls  my attention every time I log in because I posted my own sighting experience, which was fun,  albeit I doubt LGMs were involved.  However, I draw to your attention what I  think are far more likely explanations for the  recent press releases and policy directives from various government entities hinting at the idea they take the LGM idea seriously now than the . . . um,  call it "wishful fantasizing" that seems to be common here:

- The prosaic explanation: People in position to make those policy directives and press releases change. Perhaps by random chance we've now got more of the sort who take this idea seriously. Or maybe it's not entirely random. Research done by the Better Business Bureau definitely points to a substantially higher level of gullibility among 25-34 year olds with a substantial decline in gullibility correlated with age in people older than that. With only one slice of time, you can't tell whether that just reflects natural change characteristic of the process of gaining experience, or if it reflects changes in culture. Personally, I'd bet 2 to 1 it's both. But in any case, the second is plausible and if that is the case, it's not unreasonable to speculate that this change just reflects more credulous people promoted into relevant positions as more skeptical ones move up, retire or die.

- 2. The Tin Foil Hat Explanation: It's not altogether inconceivable that some people in the War Department might want to put out some directives and press releases to distract at least some attention from other subjects. All I'm going to say about that is that I keep hearing the ghost of Carl Sagan saying something about 21 trillion Dopplers. Dopplers? Maybe I heard it wrong. Ghosts always mumble.


----------



## Al Jackson

One of the most amusing shows on TV.... conspiracy inside conspiracy inside conspiracy … I love it !!
Russian agents reduced to a Russian agent …. or is that a Russian agent?
We are now into the  McCarthy era , I wonder if McCarthy will get involved with Saucers!
 I give no details so no spoilers here.
One notes that the History Channel does put up a disclaimer:
INSPIRED.... BASED....  is the History Channel committing another conspiracy?!!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> We are now into the McCarthy era , I wonder if McCarthy will get involved with Saucers!



What do you mean? I thought Eisenhower was in charge. 



Al Jackson said:


> INSPIRED.... BASED.... is the History Channel committing another conspiracy?!!



They mean they have dramatised the historical events. A lot of stuff remains the same, but the rest is smoothed for the audience sake.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> What do you mean? I thought Eisenhower was in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> They mean they have dramatised the historical events. A lot of stuff remains the same, but the rest is smoothed for the audience sake.



Was Eisenhower in change?

Smoothed... that's the ticket!


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Was Eisenhower in charge?





Spoiler



Yeah, they mentioned specifically that Eisenhower was now in the office and it wasn't good news for the MJ/12. General Valentine felt more pressurised than General Harding. I don't think Eisenhower has done his famous "military-industrial-complex" speech, but there is that unconfirmed rumour that he was the first US president to meet with the aliens.


----------



## Al Jackson

I Joe McCarthy taken to the Pentagon and given an alien implant, the Red Scare was a perfect way to deflect investigation of saucers.


----------



## ctg

I went and read on McCarthyism. It made me clear of who was responsible for the communist scare, but I don't think it will feature much in the Blue Book because it's not directly associated with unknown flying objects.


----------



## REBerg

*THE ALIENS HAVE DISCOVERED HOME DEPOT!*​


----------



## Al Jackson

I want to see von Braun's BEM again!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E02 - The Roswell Incident - Part 2



It was worth the wait for seeing General Harding mouth gaping open, when he saw what was waiting for him in the middle of the town. It is a hard thing for him to expunge with a classified project argument or trying with the weather balloon. The thing is, this is exactly what Colonol Corzo spoke about in the Day After Roswell book. 

The US Army knew, but still they could not explain any of it with traditional methods. Not when the world was suffering from McCarthyism and the Cold War was running at its hottest. The fifties were the time when US propelled over every other nation on Earth and they excellent at what they were doing. And they remained being the top dog until the turn of the millenium and the change in the leadership. But still they denied. 

It never happened. We are alone. SETI knows nothing, sees nothing. There are no aliens. No UFOs. It's all BS. 

All while they knew and denied everything. The whole topic has been a taboo until recent years and I personally still have a bit hard time on believing everything. There just was too much of propaganda. Too much hush-hush. But the thing is, the crashes has happened and the Authorities has collected evidence behind the closed doors. There's no doubt about it. 

We even now know that most of the classical history is wrong. It was written and a lot of stuff was edited away. Not to be thought in the schools. But you look at human history, the cave paintings, the unexplainable scientific monuments, the sightings, the myths and then you fast forward to modern times to cow mutilations, abductions, close encounters, videos, films, and testimonies from a credible witnesses, and you start to get a picture that is quite different than the official story. 

In other words we have been lied. But without a hard physical proof we still can't bring it out. It's just not happening, because there is nothing to show. So the status quo remains. Nothing has happened. 

Still it was worth to see Harding's mouth gaping open. 






I'm glad that I was right about the evidence. That is not human or at least not a human we know of, because there is that timetravel theory. it claims that the Greys come from the future and that is what we look in tens of thousands of years after all the mutations. Personally I wanted to believe in the Eben story that claims Grey are tens of thousands of years older than we are, but the same theory also claims that they are not the oldest species that has visited us. That there are far older races... er, species in the galaxy. 

God must be one of them. Believe it or not. But for the sake of this conversation, I'm dropping it and focus on the actual evidence in the small screen. The skeleton and the autopsy. First is something we have never seen, but the above shot is a good interpretation on what I could look if it was brought forward. The second, the autopsy and the film is something that surfaced at eighties, when the secrecy started to grumble.  

The Alien Autopsy film you might seen, or the parody of it talks about the whole thing, but it also mentions the real film. The one that they saw and then had to replicate. We don't know what is the truth, because it's still hidden in those "vaults," along with the other stuff. Will it ever come out, we see.


----------



## REBerg

They're dialing up the drama this season, and it's working.



Spoiler



Beatings, waterboarding, bribes -- all to keep things under wraps at Roswell. The drama before the TV station flicked the switch for the alien autopsy film-- the race to the station, Harding's fury at being duped -- was especially effective. I did not expect Hynek to sabotage the broadcast and expose the fakery.
I did not buy, however, the downtown saucer crash. Assuming the first spaceship was actually felled by lightning in the Roswell countryside, what are the odds that another would be brought down in the same area? Does Roswell sport a powerful UFO magnet?


Alien visitors are one of those things which can neither be proven nor disproven (so far ). It's a lot more fun to watch this series if you think the stories are true.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Assuming the first spaceship was actually felled by lightning in the Roswell countryside, what are the odds that another would be brought down in the same area? Does Roswell sport a powerful UFO magnet?



Think it this way, the saucer boom we along the nuclear test cycle, then it slowed down as everyone thought they were a hoax. But while that was going the visitors studied the weapons, the facilities and caused a few of them to start the launch cycle, and then shut down. What I'm trying to point is that they are interested on things that go boom a) because they are concerned over our safety or b) they are afraid that we might use against them, without trying to offer tea first. 

The sightings are all over the planet, but in regards of the crash and that desert, it has collected a few wrecks over time. Some of them classified experiments, some of them normal planes, and some aliens. Why? We don't know for sure until we get to ask them some questions.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> They're dialing up the drama this season, and it's working.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Beatings, waterboarding, bribes -- all to keep things under wraps at Roswell. The drama before the TV station flicked the switch for the alien autopsy film-- the race to the station, Harding's fury at being duped -- was especially effective. I did not expect Hynek to sabotage the broadcast and expose the fakery.
> I did not buy, however, the downtown saucer crash. Assuming the first spaceship was actually felled by lightning in the Roswell countryside, what are the odds that another would be brought down in the same area? Does Roswell sport a powerful UFO magnet?
> 
> 
> Alien visitors are one of those things which can neither be proven nor disproven (so far ). It's a lot more fun to watch this series if you think the stories are true.



Lots of SMOOTHING!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: Area 51



"A base run by the CIA. whose that?"   

It is also intriguing that the case they handed to Hynek was an abduction, in the Nellis AFB. If you are not aware, it is a humongous area. Airforces around the world goes there to compete in the Red Flag each year. Part of it is the infamous Area 51, and there are other notable places, like the atomic test site, S4 where Bob Lazar worked, and allegedly where the EBE-2 went to live. They have drone bases, communication test sites, most sophisticated radar network, and several other things that are wrapped under the classifications.

In other words, it is a perfect location for the alien material, even though there are other places that the Pentagon could and most probably are using to store the materials. In theory, Lazar told that back in the eighties, they had retrieved at least five different crafts and they were all stored in the S4, not in the A51. And what's remarkable is that most of them were intact. Meaning that the crashed wrecks that Col Corzo claims they retrieved are stored somewhere else... in theory.

The truth is, A51 has and always will be associated with the US Intel Machine. There's no doubt about it.

Nobody will ever get there, unless you are invited, and even then you'll have to sign NDAs with a death warrant clause. They will keep their secrets secret and it's right. They should do that. There's no question about it. But, when it comes to the relations with the visitors, and their bleed for help, meaning their request to take the subject seriously, they have no choice but to come forward. 

Something has to change. Otherwise, everything goes back to normal and the taboo remains the same until we make the official first contact. 

It is interesting that Gen Valentine didn't trust them from the beginning. He referred them thinking themselves something other than intel gatherers, meaning the OSS past. But that's the thing, CIA has always will have connections to the military intelligence, and they will always be part of the machine that enabled the system to become so sophisticated that the information get lost, because there's so much of it. 






I love the shot from the postbox, before it was even there. It's around five miles of dirt road, before you get to the fence and ranger station, where they are a permission to shoot you, if you force your way in. From there, it's endless amount of dirt tracks before you arrive to a dried lake bed, and the longest airstrip in the world.

If you get the invitation, you will arrive to place that is big special access program, and within that place, there are countless number of other SAPs. You will also find shops for a number of companies, like the LM Skunkworks for example. Deeper you go, more restrictions appear. As what happened to Quinn and Hynek when they entered the facilities. 

The imaginary matches the witness testimonies. Also sergeant's story matches the abduction stories. People have seen the crafts casting down a beam of light, like it was explained by the farmer in the last season, and the craft levitates object or the person/animal into a portal. Col Corzo spoke that the visitors carry with them a wand kind of device that stuns the people. They are transported inside the craft conscious, and the memories are somehow erased or blocked later on. 






The Vatican angle. We now know that Pope and therefore the Catholic church has accepted the reality through the Pope's message. There has also been those death bed confessions that has spoken about this. The interesting part of those things is that they often speak about the source being deeply spiritual. To them God is real, but because of all the secrecy they have almost no-one to whom they can speak about what they have seen. 

It is not allowed, because of the taboo. And if they spoke, it was and has been a very hard thing to proof. So many thing can be debunked, and has been because people cannot believe because of that ridiculousness factor. But the thing is, Catholic Church is the world oldest intel gathering machine. They have written records that goes far back into history. And most of it is classified. 

Harding however is struggling, because is suffering the PTSD and back then there was no way anyone could have diagnosed it. It can drive man at the bottom of the bottle, in some cases to end their lives prematurely. Who he can speak, when Valentine and the rules doesn't allow it? The Vatican and the doctors. 






 

I love History channel. Well done. Linda Molten Howe has reported since seventies of cow mutilation cases and there are thousands after thousands written cases, in the Law Enforcement files that the public can access. They all point to same thing. They drop samples from altitude, and you can find them from trees, crushed on fields. Things that are common with them are lack of blood, lack of reproductive organs, lack of jaws, and all the cuts are precision cuts. 

The abduction stories tell that they have highly technical instruments integrated in their medical bays. Hynek had difficulty explaining it as he was stunned when he saw the dead. Luckily it wasn't the zombie kind. If I would have to explain in scientific terms I would have used a weather phenomenom, a tornado or sand-devil - although those aren't known to pick up people. Just electrocute them. 

The coroner said, "cautarised," which matches LMH's reports. We only know one scientific method, (in theory two) that can do that at that is laser. LMH has talked about cases that shows tool marks from a high precision saws. Some of them being weirdly in a chain formation. 






The S4! Man, I didn't think the producers would have been this thorough by presenting all the evidence in one episode. And then they topped it with the abduction and showing a mothership with black helicopters. It all matches with the witness testimonies.


----------



## Al Jackson

I wonder if the CIA was known as 'the company' in those days?
Area 51 occur in a story in Project Blue ?
Good old Western Desert! Love it.
Do you suppose *George Adamski *will show in in one of these episodes?


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Do you suppose *George Adamski *will show in in one of these episodes?



If they do the stranger in the pentagon storyline at late fifties.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: Area 51



More riveting action. Saucers beaming people up. A base inside a mountain. Shades of _Star Trek_ and _Stargate_.
The aliens did such a thorough job of butchering and dissecting the airman they had taken that I wondered why Hynek and Quinn seemed no worse for the wear. Do the aliens know when they've captured VIPs and give them preferential treatment?
I thought it curious that a couple of helicopters buzzing the mother ship seemed to send it scurrying away. Surely such an advanced species would have the technology to swat the choppers out of the sky like a couple of annoying flies.
The CIA agent was a personable addition to the cast. I can see him in a recurring role as the series continues.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Do the aliens know when they've captured VIPs and give them preferential treatment?



If they have implants the answer is yes and in this case they knew most certainly who was in the jeep. And that was Hynek's second abduction, with first one been in the carnival. 



REBerg said:


> I thought it curious that a couple of helicopters buzzing the mother ship seemed to send it scurrying away. Surely such an advanced species would have the technology to swat the choppers out of the sky like a couple of annoying flies.



Sure, but you forget, or don't know those sightings are real Witness reports missing time after military helicopter and UFO


----------



## Al Jackson

Season 2 episode 2 sort of remined me of season 1 episode 2.... Hynek does the job he was paid to do... sometimes the endings are way more ambiguous.


----------



## ctg




----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> I wonder if the CIA was known as 'the company' in those days?





> The CIA has been nicknamed “The Company” since at least 1972, when that name was cited in print. This nickname was further popularized by former CIA agent Philip Agee’s book, _Inside the Company: CIA diary_ (1975).





			The Big Apple: The Company (Central Intelligence Agency or CIA nickname)
		




Al Jackson said:


> Area 51 occur in a story in Project Blue ?



Well, historically yes. It was created around that time, and if you read the old UFO literary, witness testimonies, they all describe it the same way. It is also amazing to think that you were able to drive up to the mountains to get a clear view to the base through high power telescopic lenses. But you cannot get sight to S4 or other facilities beyond the mountain range. 

As a writer I understand the reasons why the History channel is bundling these things together, as it provides the proof and information for rest of the season. To many people however the first two episodes might be super boring, because the Roswell incident has been churned endlessly through the Hollywood machine. The most interesting thing, which I had not noticed before is the Hynek connection on the Close Encounters of Third Kind. You'll see him at the end, in one scene with among the other scientists, when the Mothership lands at the end of the runway. 

In before, if you were completely oblivious to Hynek, you might have missed him and thought it was just Spielberg's vision, but it's him alive and in person among the crowd. I wonder where they will go next, because the History channel has gone through the big items and there's one really big one that they have not named, and that's the Majestic-12. 

From what we know it sits above CIA and Top Secret classifications. It's made of 12 members, some military, some scientists, some engineers, and some other super smart geeks. By the definition it is a deep state organisation that was created to answer the UFO question. There has never been an official confirmation about their existence, beyond the copies of their manuals from the fifties. The S4 is also said to have rooms for them on their stay at the base.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> The Big Apple: The Company (Central Intelligence Agency or CIA nickname)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, historically yes. It was created around that time, and if you read the old UFO literary, witness testimonies, they all describe it the same way. It is also amazing to think that you were able to drive up to the mountains to get a clear view to the base through high power telescopic lenses. But you cannot get sight to S4 or other facilities beyond the mountain range.
> 
> As a writer I understand the reasons why the History channel is bundling these things together, as it provides the proof and information for rest of the season. To many people however the first two episodes might be super boring, because the Roswell incident has been churned endlessly through the Hollywood machine. The most interesting thing, which I had not noticed before is the Hynek connection on the Close Encounters of Third Kind. You'll see him at the end, in one scene with among the other scientists, when the Mothership lands at the end of the runway.
> 
> In before, if you were completely oblivious to Hynek, you might have missed him and thought it was just Spielberg's vision, but it's him alive and in person among the crowd. I wonder where they will go next, because the History channel has gone through the big items and there's one really big one that they have not named, and that's the Majestic-12.
> 
> From what we know it sits above CIA and Top Secret classifications. It's made of 12 members, some military, some scientists, some engineers, and some other super smart geeks. By the definition it is a deep state organisation that was created to answer the UFO question. There has never been an official confirmation about their existence, beyond the copies of their manuals from the fifties. The S4 is also said to have rooms for them on their stay at the base.



Well Hynek was easy to pick out if you knew what he looked like.
On the other hand it was a bit odd that Spielberg used Francois Truffaut as  Jacques Vallée under the name Claude Lacombe .

What happened to Donald Keyhoe ? Only appeared in one episode.

Without her comrade Susie Miller just seems to lurk.

 NICAP  ever gonna show up?

* 

*


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E04 - MK ULTRA



I felt disappointed when I saw the title. Really disappointed and I thought: _really, this is what you're going to bring out? The infamous mind control program that brought us LSD and Manchurian Candidates. _ The whole thing was about controlling ones perception, and it ultimately influenced the enhanced interrogation techniques. You could as well call it a dark chapter in American History. 

It had nothing to do with the aliens or CIA's remote viewing programs. Yet, the History channel decided that it had to be part of the selection, because the program was started at 1953 and shut down at 1973. For two decades the black program was allowed to experiment with people, including doing the infamous prison experiment. But it was not all for bad as they also advanced the psycological studies a great deal, and we now understand more about the human mind than ever before. 

The episode clearly illustrates that part, and I laughed at the end when Max presented generals the evidence. They tried their best to alter people perception by launching a fake invasion. We know that Von Braun talked about it before he died. And he warned that the military would do their everything to make the people to believe that the aliens were hostile. From the Pentagon perspective, it's better that they come out on the subject and acknowledge that they don't know what's going on, and that they have been preparing for the invasion ever since the crash, than try to any longer keep quiet about it. 

From what we know there is nothing we can do to stop the abductions. They will continue forever. But there is also hypothesis which claims that the world governments know and they have been talking to aliens since fifties. The great public knows only fragments. 

Thing is, there was two other perception alterations in this episode. Mimi took the front and lead the civilian investigation to New Hamshire with her new best buddy. And Suzy strong handed KGB attempt on her life. I loved when she drove over the guard. The was zero ef's given about him, but I was surprised that she let her handler to to live. Nobody would have known nothing, if she had done the cleaner job. I guess she doesn't want to do that after she erased her last handler's mistake, and made Hynek's neighbour to disappear. 

I feel that she wants to remain close to her mark, because Quinn handles her as a queen. There is nothing the captain would do to harm his woman, even if he has shown rage. Especially towards Suzy's man on the hit list. Problem I see is how General Harding is going to act, when his double agent is capped? 

Speaking of the generals, it troubles me that they are so hell bent on acting against the superior opponent. At the same time it really feel that Hynek is on their side. He doesn't want to uncover the truth. Everything has to be explained, so that he can remain in the program to uncover the truth. Thing is he lost it, and honestly I think he cannot see the way how things really are. 

He didn't even ask how the airforce had managed to create saucers back in fifties. The VZ-9 Avrocar was started at 1958 and they didn't had a prototype straight away. It was built in that year, and the first model was far from the 3.5 Mach speeds. In fact, it was supremely difficult to handle, and they tried to make it better until 61, when the Pentagon withdrew the money from the "flying saucer" program.

But he didn't ask about it. Neither did he drew the connection to the remote viewer producing the possible outcome. He assumed that it was the CIA thing, that they knew everything and that they were in bed with the Pentagon. The way History Channel portrays Hynek is that he's a fool. No wonder why MIB pistol slapped him.

I too would have been upset for Dr Hynek getting so twisted. But I have to admit that it's interesting how they are also showing classified stuff and explain sighting through them. So what is it that we should believe?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler: S02E04 - MK ULTRA
> 
> 
> 
> I felt disappointed when I saw the title. Really disappointed and I thought: _really, this is what you're going to bring out? The infamous mind control program that brought us LSD and Manchurian Candidates. _ The whole thing was about controlling ones perception, and it ultimately influenced the enhanced interrogation techniques. You could as well call it a dark chapter in American History.
> 
> It had nothing to do with the aliens or CIA's remote viewing programs. Yet, the History channel decided that it had to be part of the selection, because the program was started at 1953 and shut down at 1973. For two decades the black program was allowed to experiment with people, including doing the infamous prison experiment. But it was not all for bad as they also advanced the psycological studies a great deal, and we now understand more about the human mind than ever before.
> 
> The episode clearly illustrates that part, and I laughed at the end when Max presented generals the evidence. They tried their best to alter people perception by launching a fake invasion. We know that Von Braun talked about it before he died. And he warned that the military would do their everything to make the people to believe that the aliens were hostile. From the Pentagon perspective, it's better that they come out on the subject and acknowledge that they don't know what's going on, and that they have been preparing for the invasion ever since the crash, than try to any longer keep quiet about it.
> 
> From what we know there is nothing we can do to stop the abductions. They will continue forever. But there is also hypothesis which claims that the world governments know and they have been talking to aliens since fifties. The great public knows only fragments.
> 
> Thing is, there was two other perception alterations in this episode. Mimi took the front and lead the civilian investigation to New Hamshire with her new best buddy. And Suzy strong handed KGB attempt on her life. I loved when she drove over the guard. The was zero ef's given about him, but I was surprised that she let her handler to to live. Nobody would have known nothing, if she had done the cleaner job. I guess she doesn't want to do that after she erased her last handler's mistake, and made Hynek's neighbour to disappear.
> 
> I feel that she wants to remain close to her mark, because Quinn handles her as a queen. There is nothing the captain would do to harm his woman, even if he has shown rage. Especially towards Suzy's man on the hit list. Problem I see is how General Harding is going to act, when his double agent is capped?
> 
> Speaking of the generals, it troubles me that they are so hell bent on acting against the superior opponent. At the same time it really feel that Hynek is on their side. He doesn't want to uncover the truth. Everything has to be explained, so that he can remain in the program to uncover the truth. Thing is he lost it, and honestly I think he cannot see the way how things really are.
> 
> He didn't even ask how the airforce had managed to create saucers back in fifties. The VZ-9 Avrocar was started at 1958 and they didn't had a prototype straight away. It was built in that year, and the first model was far from the 3.5 Mach speeds. In fact, it was supremely difficult to handle, and they tried to make it better until 61, when the Pentagon withdrew the money from the "flying saucer" program.
> 
> But he didn't ask about it. Neither did he drew the connection to the remote viewer producing the possible outcome. He assumed that it was the CIA thing, that they knew everything and that they were in bed with the Pentagon. The way History Channel portrays Hynek is that he's a fool. No wonder why MIB pistol slapped him.
> 
> I too would have been upset for Dr Hynek getting so twisted. But I have to admit that it's interesting how they are also showing classified stuff and explain sighting through them. So what is it that we should believe?




MIB back!


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> And Suzy strong handed KGB attempt on her life. I loved when she drove over the guard. The was zero ef's given about him, but I was surprised that she let her handler to to live.





Spoiler



Pretty sloppy execution job. Almost like they weren't serious about Susie.
One whack to the head with a shovel, apparently followed by a couple of shovelfuls of thrown over her body. Nobody thought to check for life signs or deliver a coup de grace? Was the guard just taking a break before finishing the job by filling the grave and pinning her in there, dead or alive?
Where did the other guy and the handler go? Did I miss a second car when they arrived at the scene?
Susie must have been sporting a fairly obvious head wound. How did Capt. Quinn miss it when he returned?
Questions, questions, questions.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> One whack to the head with a shovel, apparently followed by a couple of shovelfuls of thrown over her body. Nobody thought to check for life signs or deliver a coup de grace?



Usually shovel in the head does it. No need for seconds. What I don't get is why to leave the guard there? It's not like they were expecting her to get out, and that covering job was so sloppy. I know it's their tradition, but they know how to murder people. In that they excel in the business. 



REBerg said:


> Was the guard just taking a break before finishing the job by filling the grave and pinning her in there, dead or alive?



I don't know what he was doing other than having a ciggy or fifteen. 



REBerg said:


> Did I miss a second car when they arrived at the scene?



You didn't miss anything. You can assume that they were fetched by some other people. 



REBerg said:


> Susie must have been sporting a fairly obvious head wound. How did Capt. Quinn miss it when he returned?



Well, you know love makes your wear purple glasses and makeup can do wonders. Quinn won't be looking under her hair any way.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Well, you know love makes your wear purple glasses and makeup can do wonders. Quinn won't be looking under her hair any way.


Yeah, like he couldn't see that one side of her head was a lot flatter than the other.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: goop



Best part of S2E4 … below:


----------



## ctg




----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Best part of S2E4 … below:



Why the green goo was the best part?


----------



## REBerg




----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Why the green goo was the best part?





Spoiler: answer



Welp , actually the monkey+green goop hand prints = best Hynek sighting solution. Love it!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Welp , actually the monkey+green goop hand prints = best Hynek sighting solution. Love it!



I do love it, but it was all hoax and about debunking, and I hated that for some reason. But equally I hated that they used such an obvious thing. The alien skeleton in the morgue table is still the best proof in my honest opinion. Von Braun's tank alien is the second. I still can't figure out why would you put a body in a liquid and force them to use the ventilator/force feeding. It is a horrifying procedure to go alive. You wish you would die.

The generals wanted their war, so that they could go public with the information and possibly for a large number of scientists to work on the problem... before it's too late. I get them, but the truth is, we can't cheat in this game. The science takes time. In some cases it takes forever and we just can't figure out how they did make their things work. That's what Lazar and Staton spoke about. But now the game has changed, and they have come out with their need for the larger community to acknowledge these things. And the science is saying it's not possible, because of the time and Einstein's formulas. The wormhole is still just a theory. All we know is that they exist in the blackholes. 

So, here's what I don't get from fifties America is that why they were so scared? Why the Pentagon of all places wanted to keep it hidden? The depunking became an art, eventually creating the Mythbusters, who proved some of those theories. Today we accept the science and the evidence, and yet, because of that effing taboo we still can't talk about it. The History Channel is doing the same thing as it is doing with the Vikings, and that is making some sense to those stories. 

Yeah, it is taking huge leaps, and putting the PBB in places it shouldn't have been... or then it proves the background, the deepstate, the puppet government, the fiat-money, corporate dominance. I still can't believe that we have a space-fleet, off-world colony, an exchange program, a MIB, and bloody MJ12. 

It's like they had to put in a depunking episode. So I guess Dr Hynek took one for all us when the MIB floored him. How is going to explain that to Mimi?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I do love it, but it was all hoax and about debunking, and I hated that for some reason. But equally I hated that they used such an obvious thing. The alien skeleton in the morgue table is still the best proof in my honest opinion. Von Braun's tank alien is the second. I still can't figure out why would you put a body in a liquid and force them to use the ventilator/force feeding. It is a horrifying procedure to go alive. You wish you would die.
> 
> The generals wanted their war, so that they could go public with the information and possibly for a large number of scientists to work on the problem... before it's too late. I get them, but the truth is, we can't cheat in this game. The science takes time. In some cases it takes forever and we just can't figure out how they did make their things work. That's what Lazar and Staton spoke about. But now the game has changed, and they have come out with their need for the larger community to acknowledge these things. And the science is saying it's not possible, because of the time and Einstein's formulas. The wormhole is still just a theory. All we know is that they exist in the blackholes.
> 
> So, here's what I don't get from fifties America is that why they were so scared? Why the Pentagon of all places wanted to keep it hidden? The depunking became an art, eventually creating the Mythbusters, who proved some of those theories. Today we accept the science and the evidence, and yet, because of that effing taboo we still can't talk about it. The History Channel is doing the same thing as it is doing with the Vikings, and that is making some sense to those stories.
> 
> Yeah, it is taking huge leaps, and putting the PBB in places it shouldn't have been... or then it proves the background, the deepstate, the puppet government, the fiat-money, corporate dominance. I still can't believe that we have a space-fleet, off-world colony, an exchange program, a MIB, and bloody MJ12.
> 
> It's like they had to put in a depunking episode. So I guess Dr Hynek took one for all us when the MIB floored him. How is going to explain that to Mimi?


They really need to introduce Ray Palmer as a character.


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Ray Palmer as a character.



Well, no, because going with the SF, you establish more fiction, even though you show the culture shift. If their aim is to add a shade then those stories should be part of Mimi and that side. The danger is that if you venture into that land you end up losing the story, the stuff that matters. We get that SF made this possible, because the writers couldn't let go of the UFO fiction. 

If the History Channel want to do that, it should be own program that they should associate with the PBB, by playing that side and showing the generals mixing with the Hollywood and so on. SF and Fantasy played a huge role by obfuscating the whole thing behind the shroud of fiction. So the fiction cannot really play part, unless it's essential for the PBB story.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Well, no, because going with the SF, you establish more fiction, even though you show the culture shift. If their aim is to add a shade then those stories should be part of Mimi and that side. The danger is that if you venture into that land you end up losing the story, the stuff that matters. We get that SF made this possible, because the writers couldn't let go of the UFO fiction.
> 
> If the History Channel want to do that, it should be own program that they should associate with the PBB, by playing that side and showing the generals mixing with the Hollywood and so on. SF and Fantasy played a huge role by obfuscating the whole thing behind the shroud of fiction. So the fiction cannot really play part, unless it's essential for the PBB story.


Well ol Ray with his magazines , like Flying Saucers, did more to popularize UFOs than anybody else.


----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Well ol Ray with his magazines , like Flying Saucers, did more to popularize UFOs than anybody else.



I do get it and I get that he also popularised MIB, but before they put that connection in, it should stay out, in my honest opinion.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E05 - The Men In Black



So, here we are here, with another undeniable link to the phenomenon. I looked at the episode titles and it seems that the History Channel is continuing making the famous cases to appear before their time. Why? I don't know, because I expected that they would have continued investigating other famous incidents, instead of diving deeply into the lore. Fifties and to end of sixties, when the Robertson Panel stopped the Project, the Blue Book team investigated so many things. But not before their time. Instead the skies were buzzing with the incidents, and people were fooled by the natural phenomenons, instead of seeing the real encounters.

Today we are so far ahead of in sciences and especially on sharing the knowledge that we already debunk most of the cases automatically. Yet, we cannot explain the unexplainable, because we don't have all the pieces. It seems that the US government doesn't have whole picture either, if you start to break the equation to pieces. But one thing is certain, Hynek did meet up with the Men in Black, and he was scared about them.

The real MIB were an US Air Force unit that was tasked on recovering crashed objects. They had security clearances going above Top Secret, and curious thing is that they originated from the Roswell AFB before they moved to Wright-Patterson to be finally assimilated to Pentagon's infamous Foreign Technology Division. But because most of its operations are classified, and most likely will never see the daylight, we cannot know for sure.

In the series the MIB claimed that they had left the army behind and formed their own task group that had access to all the information that the Pentagon was hiding from the public. William claimed that Hynek had betrayed him with his weather explanations and he stated that Hynek had lost the plot instead of embracing the mystery as they had. I felt that he wanted to show Hynek what he had found from Antartica. You could even see that MIB had stored boxes destined to Antartica in their hangar.

Thing that intrigued me more was the plane at above shot. Notice it has no tail numbers. The infamous black helicopters seen in the A51 episode were the same. If you do a search on the MIB and Black Helicopters, you'll find more sightings on machines than on the MIB. They are a mystery. Both of them, and there is only Janet Flights that share the similarity by no tail numbers. If you connect the dots, a picture appears, where the MIB clearly sits above Pentagon's Joint Chiefs, and they clearly have a SAP stamped all over them, including the Black Budget.

But then there is the question Hynek produced, "How do they know all of it?" and that is the key mystery. How do they when the Generals clearly are operating in the unknown territory. I cannot answer that question, but I can speculate that they review all the evidence, all the reports, and they don't answer to anyone inside the Government or under it, because of their Special Access Program status.

If they are the unit that were responsible for the crash retrievals it would explain a lot of thing, because certainly those men would have had questions of their own. No man can just walk in the site and not wonder who and what crashed there, when nothing of it seems familiar. Only the retrieval guys  would know the connections. But even then I doubt they could make the UAPs to appear, unless they were in contact, and therefore in knowledge of what's happening in our space.

So, if they are humans and in knowledge, then why is that none of them has spoken?

Nevertheless I think History cut some of the story away, as Mimi's investigation to the secret files didn't yield anything. It was as if she didn't learn anything new, even though that was her mission. Instead she ended sleeping on their table, and that was all her function in the story, while Quinn, Sam and Hynek got main airtime.

I also felt slightly disappointed that Lucy didn't appear in this episode. It was mostly about Hynek being stubborn *******, instead of being intrigued by the USO, and the metal recovery. He didn't even study the metals, when they were dropped on the deck, even though it was clear that the alloys weren't manufactured by a man. Certainly by nobody who were living in the Maury Island at the time.

Here's MUFON case file on the Maury Island Incident - 1947


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 2.05 The Men in Black



Maybe it's due to the movies, but I've always regarded the MIB as a joke. This episode did not change that view.
A rogue spin-off of a top secret government operation with a dress code? I thought it was hilarious that they required Hynek to don their official costume so he wouldn't "stand out" -- as if a group of men all dressed in black wouldn't draw attention wherever they might pop up (like landing on a beach). If the MIB truly believed their attire was civilian camouflage, why didn't they give poor Hynek a hat to complete the outfit?
That said, it was an entertaining episode. Seems like all the factions involved -- the Air Force, the CIA and the MIB -- want to be in charge of close encounter investigations for reasons that have not become clear. Is it all just Cold War paranoia about acquiring the military advantage of alien technology?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> If the MIB truly believed their attire was civilian camouflage, why didn't they give poor Hynek a hat to complete the outfit?



Maybe you have to earn the hat. It is not just given to anyone.  



REBerg said:


> . Is it all just Cold War paranoia about acquiring the military advantage of alien technology?



Yeah, and I believe it's still going.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Maybe you have to earn the hat. It is not just given to anyone.


----------



## Al Jackson

Men in Black



Spoiler: Hat



Why didn't the MIB give Hynek a black hat?​


​


----------



## Al Jackson

Al Jackson said:


> Men in Black
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Hat
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't the MIB give
> Hynek a black hat?





Spoiler: black



All they gave him was a black long coat! What the heck! A budget issue ?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> All they gave him was a black long coat! What the heck! A budget issue ?



No, like I said, it has to be earned. The case is more likely that they were going to give him the whole thing as soon as they would have got to other end of the plane ride. It's clear that they want Hynek to understand and be their guy inside the program. But, fifties strongman culture just couldn't accept it, William had to force the issue to Hynek even though he could have achieved better results by showing evidence, and asking to come to Antartica. 

The First Contact scares a lot of people, because it's unknown, and you really don't know if you come out from it alive. But that's what William tried to do, it's just he couldn't adapt the cloak-and-dagger stuff, because of the secrecy. Nobody can know because it's a taboo. So, why didn't he shoot Hynek when he had a chance? Quinn would have gone in shock and tried to save dear doctor, while he would have made the escape. No other shooting involved. Plane saved and he would have got to destination intact.

Now there is a big issue between MIB and Project Blue Book, and yet, they said nothing to generals. Why? 

Is the enemy your friend?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No, like I said, it has to be earned. The case is more likely that they were going to give him the whole thing as soon as they would have got to other end of the plane ride. It's clear that they want Hynek to understand and be their guy inside the program. But, fifties strongman culture just couldn't accept it, William had to force the issue to Hynek even though he could have achieved better results by showing evidence, and asking to come to Antartica.
> 
> The First Contact scares a lot of people, because it's unknown, and you really don't know if you come out from it alive. But that's what William tried to do, it's just he couldn't adapt the cloak-and-dagger stuff, because of the secrecy. Nobody can know because it's a taboo. So, why didn't he shoot Hynek when he had a chance? Quinn would have gone in shock and tried to save dear doctor, while he would have made the escape. No other shooting involved. Plane saved and he would have got to destination intact.
> 
> Now there is a big issue between MIB and Project Blue Book, and yet, they said nothing to generals. Why?
> 
> Is the enemy your friend?





Spoiler: More Black



Welp the MIB guy said they wanted Hynek to look like them, they didn't even give him a brief case either! Yeah what about the Air Force?!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Yeah what about the Air Force?!



Indeed. So let me ask you this, in your time inside the space program, did you saw MIB's or related people to them? Or even heard about rumours?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. So let me ask you this, in your time inside the space program, did you saw MIB's or related people to them? Or even heard about rumours?





Spoiler: By oder of NASA security


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> View attachment 60624


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Rays



https://31.media.tumblr.com/fe27a53e0c5506a51475d774cfdb85f0/tumblr_nnne1elIaJ1s01qkyo1_500.gif


----------



## ctg

You win Al. Well done.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: President Eisenhower's Secret Meeting with ETs in 1955



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv1ZCEiVrgg&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR2H-altzrMUNlb-WGt3-VJ6XYQh8Tu7KfmuDoacP_On39309DT778fLBtQ


----------



## ctg

Al, edit it please. Use features first button, add media. Paste link and the system will attach the video under the spoiler tag.


----------



## ctg

Interesting. The case they made in the MK ULTRA episode is plausible and the History channel adaptation only shows a small portion about the event. So, think about it and what I said about the fear of unknown. Mind can conjure horrifying images.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: My favorite PBB scenes!



The greatest scene in the TV Project Bluebook..first Donald Keyhoe is being interview on the radio .. then the the CIA or is it the Men In Black (tho this guy is wearing brown!) stick a gun in his mouth... they let him go but we never see him again! Or renegade CIA who are MIB love that twist!!!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> then the the CIA or is it the Men In Black (tho this guy is wearing brown!) stick a gun in his mouth...



I think those are general's men and has nothing to do with the MIB. I get that Keyhoe popularised the whole thing through his writings, but unless he brings in a case, the series should be about him and his revelations, but about the secrecy done inside the government. Mimi's role in this season seems to act as a medium between the army and the public. There are still a couple episodes to go, and we might get another Keyhoe scene.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I think those are general's men and has nothing to do with the MIB. I get that Keyhoe popularised the whole thing through his writings, but unless he brings in a case, the series should be about him and his revelations, but about the secrecy done inside the government. Mimi's role in this season seems to act as a medium between the army and the public. There are still a couple episodes to go, and we might get another Keyhoe scene.





Spoiler: Big Secret!



I think Mimi should be reveled as the leader of The Men In Black!!​


​


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Gone but not forgotten.



I sure miss Donald Keyhoe!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E06 - Close Encounters - Robertson Panel



This was quite difficult episode for all parties. Including me as a viewer. I could not remember Robertson Panel at all. But why should I when it didn't close down the project, and all the evidence from Sign and Grudge was simply swiped off from the slate and a messenger brought the whole thing to a Disney ending.

All I want to say about it is that the Intelligence Machine tried and failed to douche the phenomenon. If it would have been taken off from Air Force hands we can be certain that nobody in US could have heard about anything. But then again, it happened, and the subject became a taboo, because it was needed to get through the times. 

Maybe we humans are weren't as ready for the close encounters as we are today. Back then, distributing the information throughout the world would have taken ages, while now it's spreads within a day. It's easier to think that we are alone than accept the impossible. I'm also pretty certain that this is not the last time we'll see CIA or other intelligence agencies in play. 

In the other hand I was glad to find out that Suzy's case moved forward even though I'm also certain that she will never receive her child in the States. Getting her out from the Soviet Union in the fifties would have been impossible, and it's more likely that the girl was send to Siperia. All Stalin cared was power. But what I don't get is that why she risked it?

To get her out, she would have to be smuggled to Finnish border and then get her to over it, hide her and the assistance from border patrols. It's not an easy job, hence the intelligence establishment has honed on it more than people smugglers. So getting a girl to states in fifties is something Suzy should forget because it ain't happening. It is a tough life for being a spy.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Panel



Can't find a picuture of the Robertson panel but the members were: (according to Wikipedia)
     Luis Alvarez, physicist, radar expert (and later, a Nobel Prize recipient); (actually Alvarez was more than that !)
Frederick C. Durant, CIA officer, secretary to the panel and missile expert;
Samuel Abraham Goudsmit, Brookhaven National Laboratories nuclear physicist;
Thornton Leigh Page, astrophysicist, radar expert, deputy director of Johns Hopkins Operations Research Office;
    Lloyd Berkner, physicist;
J. Allen Hynek, astronomer and consultant to Blue Book presented to the panel, but was not a full member.
Frederick C. Durant wasn't a CIA officer but a consultant he was an engineer working for Bell Aerospace , actually famous in aeronautics and astronautics.... met Louie Alvarez a couple of times, knew Thornton Page for about 20 years when he moved to Houston in 1970....
None of those actors looked like any of the panel!


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Bang Bang



This episode 

*Сьюзи Миллер стреляет в Ллёда

Commie shoots commie, what more could you ask!??

*​


​


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: The magic words



So the Roberson panel keep Project Blue Book because this guy said Bug Ducking crazy stuff?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> So the Roberson panel keep Project Blue Book because this guy said Bug Ducking crazy stuff?



Well, think about it. They weren't really compelled by the traditional evidence. In fact, if you read CIA's version of the events, the whole panel was ridiculous and it caused the agency a lot of trouble. Especially as most of it is classified. 



> The charge to the panel was to review the available evidence on UFOs and to consider the possible dangers of the phenomena to US national security. The panel met from 14 to 17 January 1953. It reviewed Air Force data on UFO case histories and, after spending 12 hours studying the phenomena, declared that reasonable explanations could be suggested for most, if not all, sightings. For example, after reviewing motion-picture film taken of a UFO sighting near Tremonton, Utah, on 2 July 1952 and one near Great Falls, Montana, on 15 August 1950, the panel concluded that the images on the Tremonton film were caused by sunlight reflecting off seagulls and that the images at Great Falls were sunlight reflecting off the surface of two Air Force interceptors.* (31) *
> 
> The panel concluded unanimously that there was no evidence of a direct threat to national security in the UFO sightings. Nor could the panel find any evidence that the objects sighted might be extraterrestrials. It did find that continued emphasis on UFO reporting might threaten "the orderly functioning" of the government by clogging the channels of communication with irrelevant reports and by inducing "hysterical mass behavior" harmful to constituted authority. The panel also worried that potential enemies contemplating an attack on the United States might exploit the UFO phenomena and use them to disrupt US air defenses.* (32) *
> 
> To meet these problems, the panel recommended that the National Security Council debunk UFO reports and institute a policy of public education to reassure the public of the lack of evidence behind UFOs. It suggested using the mass media, advertising, business clubs, schools, and even the Disney corporation to get the message across. Reporting at the height of McCarthyism, the panel also recommended that such private UFO groups as the Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators in Los Angeles and the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization in Wisconsin be monitored for subversive activities.* (33) *
> 
> The Robertson panel's conclusions were strikingly similar to those of the earlier Air Force project reports on SIGN and GRUDGE and to those of the CIA's own OSI Study Group. All investigative groups found that UFO reports indicated no direct threat to national security and no evidence of visits by extraterrestrials.
> 
> Following the Robertson panel findings, the Agency abandoned efforts to draft an NSCID on UFOs.* (34) *The Scientific Advisory Panel on UFOs (the Robertson panel) submitted its report to the IAC, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of the Federal Civil Defense Administration, and the Chairman of the National Security Resources Board. CIA officials said no further consideration of the subject appeared warranted, although they continued to monitor sightings in the interest of national security. Philip Strong and Fred Durant from OSI also briefed the Office of National Estimates on the findings.* (35) *CIA officials wanted knowledge of any Agency interest in the subject of flying saucers carefully restricted, noting not only that the Robertson panel report was classified but also that any mention of CIA sponsorship of the panel was forbidden. This attitude would later cause the Agency major problems relating to its credibility








						CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90 — Central Intelligence Agency
					

CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90



					www.cia.gov
				




You read into that and it becomes obvious that the agency wasn't going to drop the subject, because unknown visitors created a concern for the national security. Besides the point, they wanted to hide it completely, and it is possible that because of it, the whole subject became such a taboo. Thing is, we know most certainly that the Authorities are interested on the visitors, and only one world governments has come forward about it publicly and that is Chile. They officially study, publish and recommend people to report the sightings. 

A lot of other governments has kept it quiet, and there is no talk about it, because there are no UFOs. Yet, Italian government came forward in the Unidentified, and acknowledged that they have put together scientists under a military leadership. US is still investigating and has changed the rules, but all the reports are still classified. 

So, did the man from woods, talking crazy really appeared at front of the panel? It's plausible, but we don't know for sure.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 2.06 Close Encounters



MIB David to the rescue!
David saved the day -- just as he had promised he would. By appearing before the panel as a calm, cool and understating UFO witness, he must have known that Quinn would seize the opportunity to demonstrate how well the Air Force was protecting the nation by debunking UFO reports from people like him (wink, wink). I don't think David's dark choice of attire was pure happenstance.
Linking the panel review and Spielberg's Close_ Encounters of the Third Kind_ was a great way to tell the story.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Spoiler: 2.06 Close Encounters
> 
> 
> 
> MIB David to the rescue!
> David saved the day -- just as he had promised he would. By appearing before the panel as a calm, cool and understating UFO witness, he must have known that Quinn would seize the opportunity to demonstrate how well the Air Force was protecting the nation by debunking UFO reports from people like him (wink, wink). I don't think David's dark choice of attire was pure happenstance.
> Linking the panel review and Spielberg's Close_ Encounters of the Third Kind_ was a great way to tell the story.





Spoiler: The Target



Yeah when David said






I thought I would lose my shinola, the  Roberston Panel did!
I think Suzy will shoot David....


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: No the Muppets



Suzi is referring to Howdy Doody being a CIA operative:
Suzi will shoot everyone in the end!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I don't think David's dark choice of attire was pure happen stance.



I didn't even think that angle, but yeah, the symbolism is there. It's just he didn't act like MIB. Not a true one, with attitude. And I doubt he faked the eyes and his voice. And if the MIB would be able to project telepathically then why do their need Dr Hynek?


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Suprise leader



Susie wears a black hat so often that I think she is head of the Men in Black!


----------



## Al Jackson

Al Jackson said:


> Spoiler: The magic words
> 
> 
> 
> So the Roberson panel keep Project Blue Book because this guy said Bug Ducking crazy stuff?
> 
> View attachment 60771





Spoiler: Venusians 



David said Vanusios , is this really a code word for George Adamski's Venusian saucer pilot Orthon ?!! Is David Dubrovsky  Geroge Admaski? Very strange name like George.
Very suspicious!






* 

*


----------



## ctg




----------



## ctg

Spoiler: 2.07 - The SkinWalker Ranch



Let's be fair here, there is no connection between the Project Blue Book timeline and with the SkinWalker Ranch. It is all brought forward by the writers in the sake of bringing out the major cases in the current world. But, it doesn't say that the Skinwalkers aren't real and haven't been in that location for ages. 

The official Skinwalker Ranch is located in the Utah, USA. Skinwalker Ranch in Ballard, UT (Google Maps)

Interesting fact is that Robert Bigelow bought the place and he brought in private contractors to study the phenomenon. And there is connection from those studies back to the Pentagon, and to the AATIP program. In other words, the Skinwalker Ranch has been part of the US Special Access Program as the place is strongly connected to a paranormal phenomenon and surprise, surprise to the UFOs. 

Here's George Knapp talking about the subject





Thing is, he tells the invulnerable dog story and refers it being larger than a normal canine. Some have call it a wolf, and the PMCs has tried to take it down in same way as the ranchers. It does not go down. Inside the ranch, there has been paranormal phenomenon that we usually know as poltergeist, where things has been moving in unexplained way. Things that go missing and then reappear some time later, in a wrong location.

There has been sightings of strange lights in the sky. Sightings of unknown beings and cattle... er, animal mutilations.

In other words it has been a hotbed for paranormal and ufo investigations for a while. Agencies, private investigators, journalists and conspiracy theorists has all studied the place. Why?

Is there something happening there that we don't know? If not then why to put all the resources to study the place if it's all hoax?

It is intriguing that the land is also part of the Native American heritage, and there is the legend of the skinwalker that so, so many writers has been using in the pieces. Who doesn't like a shapeshifter? It is a good monsters and well done, it can create the horror element. But for the sake of the argument it was good to see Hynek and Quinn exploring some other ranch that has nothing to do with the reality, and what happened in the history. 






Suzy, Suzy, Suzy. Her life is full of endless misery. It is as if she doesn't get a break at all. It is always about the business. Even when she's with Captain Quinn, she's in the role. With Mimi same thing. With her handlers, nothing changes. And now she's guest for the Generals, and she's trying to hide it all, as if she could somehow find her way out from the black hole the generals are going to through her in. It is not going to happen, ever.

Why the generals didn't made the honeytrap connection straight away? They must know that the Soviets were studying their program through the dead spy, and through his capture location. They knew he was a double agent and they were just keeping his safe, just in case someone needed to ask some questions or make him do things. 

Will Suzy reveal that she's been dating the Captain and will that give leverage to the General's to press Quinn when the need arises? 

All I can assume is that Suzy is going to stick to her story and she will end in the program as a test pilot for the UFO technology. 






Mimi and Astra. They finally name the group and Mimi is closed out, left alone to wonder what is happening as the secrecy and taboo start to bite the citizens. Honestly the whole thing feels as if the History channel wants to explain all the cases with terrestrial explanation. That there is nothing to see, it's all swamp gas and hallucinations, even though the reality looks quite different.

Why? Are we going back to wrapping the subject as a taboo?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler: 2.07 - The SkinWalker Ranch
> 
> 
> 
> Let's be fair here, there is no connection between the Project Blue Book timeline and with the SkinWalker Ranch. It is all brought forward by the writers in the sake of bringing out the major cases in the current world. But, it doesn't say that the Skinwalkers aren't real and haven't been in that location for ages.
> 
> The official Skinwalker Ranch is located in the Utah, USA. Skinwalker Ranch in Ballard, UT (Google Maps)
> 
> Interesting fact is that Robert Bigelow bought the place and he brought in private contractors to study the phenomenon. And there is connection from those studies back to the Pentagon, and to the AATIP program. In other words, the Skinwalker Ranch has been part of the US Special Access Program as the place is strongly connected to a paranormal phenomenon and surprise, surprise to the UFOs.
> 
> Here's George Knapp talking about the subject
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thing is, he tells the invulnerable dog story and refers it being larger than a normal canine. Some have call it a wolf, and the PMCs has tried to take it down in same way as the ranchers. It does not go down. Inside the ranch, there has been paranormal phenomenon that we usually know as poltergeist, where things has been moving in unexplained way. Things that go missing and then reappear some time later, in a wrong location.
> 
> There has been sightings of strange lights in the sky. Sightings of unknown beings and cattle... er, animal mutilations.
> 
> In other words it has been a hotbed for paranormal and ufo investigations for a while. Agencies, private investigators, journalists and conspiracy theorists has all studied the place. Why?
> 
> Is there something happening there that we don't know? If not then why to put all the resources to study the place if it's all hoax?
> 
> It is intriguing that the land is also part of the Native American heritage, and there is the legend of the skinwalker that so, so many writers has been using in the pieces. Who doesn't like a shapeshifter? It is a good monsters and well done, it can create the horror element. But for the sake of the argument it was good to see Hynek and Quinn exploring some other ranch that has nothing to do with the reality, and what happened in the history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suzy, Suzy, Suzy. Her life is full of endless misery. It is as if she doesn't get a break at all. It is always about the business. Even when she's with Captain Quinn, she's in the role. With Mimi same thing. With her handlers, nothing changes. And now she's guest for the Generals, and she's trying to hide it all, as if she could somehow find her way out from the black hole the generals are going to through her in. It is not going to happen, ever.
> 
> Why the generals didn't made the honeytrap connection straight away? They must know that the Soviets were studying their program through the dead spy, and through his capture location. They knew he was a double agent and they were just keeping his safe, just in case someone needed to ask some questions or make him do things.
> 
> Will Suzy reveal that she's been dating the Captain and will that give leverage to the General's to press Quinn when the need arises?
> 
> All I can assume is that Suzy is going to stick to her story and she will end in the program as a test pilot for the UFO technology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mimi and Astra. They finally name the group and Mimi is closed out, left alone to wonder what is happening as the secrecy and taboo start to bite the citizens. Honestly the whole thing feels as if the History channel wants to explain all the cases with terrestrial explanation. That there is nothing to see, it's all swamp gas and hallucinations, even though the reality looks quite different.
> 
> Why? Are we going back to wrapping the subject as a taboo?





Spoiler: Black



I hate when everything is explained and Susie does not shoot anybody! Why Capt Quinn wearing a Back Coat!!!???
Hynek seems to be wearing a Black Hat!


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: What the heck is going on?



Mimi in Black!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> I hate when everything is explained and Susie does not shot anybody! Why Capt Quinn wearing a Back Coat!!!???
> Hynek seems to be wearing a Black Hat!



Just to whine you up  There were other shots, with more black hats. Please don't think about the MIB angle, because it's not important at the moment. The MIB didn't show up in the show, and Quinn certainly didn't play the role. It was Hynek, who persuaded the government to open their wallet.  But you also noticed that the check didn't get in with an NDA. Not at least in the show, but we can assume that it was hush money.

But that is also the point, if we talk about the secrecy taboo. The Authorities around the world has used strong tactics to silence the witnesses and researchers. The whole subject was wrapped in ridicule and to the assumption that we are alone. Everybody was thought that there are no lost civilisations even though there's evidence all around us that we cannot explain. It's just there and some the ancient people were able to do thing we have trouble replicating today!

We also know that the hush-money exist. It is not fiction, and there laws about it. We know that back in the fifties and even today the strong arm tactics and assassinations are reality. The secrets has to stay secrets. But it's also wrong, because the corporations do the same thing and they get away from it, because of the politics. It is not right and it should change, or otherwise we are always going to be a divided. Not united. 

The mankind needs to stop wars and adapt to fight the nature, if they want to survive. It is the nature that always wins. We can see it clearly today through the SARS-Cov19 epidemic. At the heart of it is secrecy. A taboo which the authorities doesn't want to approach, because of the money. I assume it's the same thing with the UFOs. They crashed, we retrieved them, and studied them. From those studies technologies were born and our progress jumped forward thousand fold, and it still continues today. 

Why? The information. Hide some of it behind the veil of secrecy and we will be stupid forever.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Just to whine you up  There were other shots, with more black hats. Please don't think about the MIB angle, because it's not important at the moment. The MIB didn't show up in the show, and Quinn certainly didn't play the role. It was Hynek, who persuaded the government to open their wallet.  But you also noticed that the check didn't get in with an NDA. Not at least in the show, but we can assume that it was hush money.
> 
> But that is also the point, if we talk about the secrecy taboo. The Authorities around the world has used strong tactics to silence the witnesses and researchers. The whole subject was wrapped in ridicule and to the assumption that we are alone. Everybody was thought that there are no lost civilisations even though there's evidence all around us that we cannot explain. It's just there and some the ancient people were able to do thing we have trouble replicating today!
> 
> We also know that the hush-money exist. It is not fiction, and there laws about it. We know that back in the fifties and even today the strong arm tactics and assassinations are reality. The secrets has to stay secrets. But it's also wrong, because the corporations do the same thing and they get away from it, because of the politics. It is not right and it should change, or otherwise we are always going to be a divided. Not united.
> 
> The mankind needs to stop wars and adapt to fight the nature, if they want to survive. It is the nature that always wins. We can see it clearly today through the SARS-Cov19 epidemic. At the heart of it is secrecy. A taboo which the authorities doesn't want to approach, because of the money. I assume it's the same thing with the UFOs. They crashed, we retrieved them, and studied them. From those studies technologies were born and our progress jumped forward thousand fold, and it still continues today.
> 
> Why? The information. Hide some of it behind the veil of secrecy and we will be stupid forever.



*


Spoiler: Amazement springs to my lips.



I'll be Cow Kicked!


*


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 2.07 Curse of the Skinwalker



The main story here was too much like a paranormal series episode -- complete with a generous sprinkling of "what was that?" and "did you  see that?" moments. A lot of darkness and flashes of monsters. I also could not bring myself to believe that the government would go to such elaborate efforts to study the effects of terrorizing a hapless family. The alien connection was paper-thin.
More interesting were the side stories. Suzy is more than a match for the generals, who strike me as being only slightly more competent than Col. Klink. I thought they might discover the body still stashed in her "boyfriend's" apartment, but she probably had a Russan clean-up crew on the scene minutes after the deed was done. What better way to prove to them that she had kept her promise?
I did feel sorry for Mimi. Being denied access to Blue Book offices and tossed out of the UFO group won't leave her with much to do. I'm expecting her to increase her direct involvement with Hynek=Quinn incident investigations.



Al Jackson said:


> Why Capt Quinn wearing a Back Coat!!!???
> Hynek seems to be wearing a Black Hat!
> 
> Mimi in Black



Sometimes a black hat is just a black hat.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I thought they might discover the body still stashed in her "boyfriend's" apartment, but she probably had a Russan clean-up crew on the scene minutes after the deed was done. What better way to prove to them that she had kept her promise?



I think it's still stashed in some trunk at somewhere, or she might have even used the grave meant for her for the body. Waste not, want not, you know. The Soviets had already dug, so why waste a good hole? The generals might not find him, but they have other ways to debunk her story, and then put a twist on the screws. 

You forget that the soviet double agent was stashed in the safehouse and if a soviet cleaner crew would have turned in, it would have blown up the whole game and caused a conflict.


REBerg said:


> I did feel sorry for Mimi. Being denied access to Blue Book offices and tossed out of the UFO group won't leave her with much to do. I'm expecting her to increase her direct involvement with Hynek=Quinn incident investigations.



What do you mean by that?


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> What do you mean by that?





Spoiler



Since Mimi has been denied participation in the background, she'll want to tag along whenever the partners get a call to investigate an incident.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Since Mimi has been denied participation in the background, she'll want to tag along whenever the partners get a call to investigate an incident.



In a story it would make sense, but I think her role will become to be a middleman between the ufo groups and the government investigation. Since they have already put events forward, and out from the context to give a bigger picture to the audience, I wouldn't be surprised is she would became the leaker.


----------



## ctg

Robertson Panel. I cannot quite believe after listening Dolan explaining the whole thing that the History Channel managed to cockup the whole thing. It is really important to understand that the Washington Sighting happened in Summer 52 and the Robertson Panel happened in January 53. The whole 52 and 53 was full of UFO sightings and while the US was fighting the Korean War, the CIA organised this panel to wrap the subject in secrecy. They had no scientific aim, instead they were doing their hardest to make the whole thing go away. One of the panel members even said, "The phenomenon only concerns US of A, not the whole world, why are we worried?"

Ignorance is bliss, but this same thing is still going today and it is not changing in any way. Instead it feels that everything is quietly swept aside and forgotten because it's easier to believe that there is nothing. No aliens. No UFOs or USOs. No abductions. No sightings. That we are alone in this universe and all of it belongs to us, because there is nobody else. And there certainly wasn't a previous civilisation.

No, we were cavemen for hundred and forty thousand years, and then one day in Mesopotomia they invented everything from astronomy to mathematics to pottery wheels, and metal alloys that somehow were able to carve highly precious stone monuments that we have hard time replicating today. There simply isn't evidence in anywhere in the world, or in its history to back up these tinfoil ideas. 



Spoiler


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> Spoiler: 2.07 Curse of the Skinwalker
> 
> 
> 
> The main story here was too much like a paranormal series episode -- complete with a generous sprinkling of "what was that?" and "did you  see that?" moments. A lot of darkness and flashes of monsters. I also could not bring myself to believe that the government would go to such elaborate efforts to study the effects of terrorizing a hapless family. The alien connection was paper-thin.
> More interesting were the side stories. Suzy is more than a match for the generals, who strike me as being only slightly more competent than Col. Klink. I thought they might discover the body still stashed in her "boyfriend's" apartment, but she probably had a Russan clean-up crew on the scene minutes after the deed was done. What better way to prove to them that she had kept her promise?
> I did feel sorry for Mimi. Being denied access to Blue Book offices and tossed out of the UFO group won't leave her with much to do. I'm expecting her to increase her direct involvement with Hynek=Quinn incident investigations.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes a black hat is just a black hat.





Spoiler: Odd



Actually none of the stuff they were wearing was actually black! 
Sometimes the lighting made it look that way.
Which is very suspicious !!! 
And Susie was not wearing any black at all this episode which is even more suspicious!!!



http://24.media.tumblr.com/792e16c988359078d46a337ed8c18d35/tumblr_n4gwedgMpN1ri43r5o2_500.gif


----------



## REBerg

Off-black?


----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

Spoiler: What Lies Beneath



Hangar 18. The infamous Wright-Patterson Base that is not a real hangar, but a building that can be found for example in the Congressional Records. Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Area B, Building 18, Power Plant Laboratory Complex, Northeast corner of C & Fifth Streets, Dayton, Montgomery County, OH

The place is known for a long time for the connection in the UFO lore. There are number of witnesses, including senators and congressmen who has asked about it and been told to shut up. In this episode Hynek and Quinn explored the building and found an empty hangar. The emptiness doesn't mean that there never was anything. The location, the cryptokey, the door lock, the size of the hangar, and the classified file all told the same thing, the secrecy around the infamous Hangar 18.

Some people have said that USAF hide there bodies, crafts, technologies, and whole laboratories. It is said to be guarded by the Delta Force and if you don't have an invite, you're not going in... alive. Who knows they might cap you just for the sake of approaching a sensitive location and asking questions. In a way all of it just proves that the secrecy exists. And so does the Special Access Programs. 

The rumours regarding the whole thing also speaks volumes of how much they want to solve the problems, but at the same time keep it all hidden so that they can maintain the status quo and their secrets. But at the same time they are asking us to believe that it's not all sh*t. Funny thing is Colonel Corso also spoke about the existence of the program and the relation to the WPAFB. And so did Timothy Good in the Above Top Secret. 

We can speculate the origins of the transistor, the fibre cables and night vision, but at the same time they are also human inventions. Once we have understood the science and produced a prototype, humanity has always improved the technology way beyond the original concepts. A lot of stuff happened, and a lot of money has been made since the technological revolution started happening in latter part of the 1900's.

Some say that it came from these labs, in same way as for example how it happened with the nylon socks. After the Second World War it was released to the public, in a same way that happened to the nuclear power. Those things just couldn't be hidden any more. Now the same thing is happening with the UAP's and USO's. It is as if the humanity has advanced to the point that it's no longer shock us if the information is released. Partially or fully. 

The History Channel has made clear that they don't want to release fiction. Everything has to be based into the actual stuff even if it is dramatised. The existence and the debt of the underground base tells volumes about the whole thing. It kind of paints a clear picture what has been happening behind the closed doors. More so than any of the cases they have brought out to our eyes. 

Who can really deny that there isn't something they don't want to show us, because it would expose the pile of dung that had ruined so, so many lives. 






Suzy. Suzy. Suzy. You make me weep for you. There is nothing good in her life and now she lost the man she loved. Captain Quinn was a good man for her. The last good thing. Mimi was a lost cause and she exposed herself at the end completely. In a way I suspect it was the only way she could keep breathing even though it's likely that she's going into the Black Prison and not in the hands of Hoover's FBI. 

Thing about it for a moment. Back then Hoover was still in charge, and if he had got hold of Suzy it would have exposed everything. What we don't know is did she went to the Agency safe house first, because the chances are that she also know about the Russian program and the extend of a lot of things they were doing in the mid fifties. In a way she could have exposed Soviet spies in the Latin and South America. The existence of the GRU. The Number Towns and Number Stations.  Whole nine yards. 

But they never do. Ken Alibak is the only one who I know of exposing the Soviet secrets in the Biopreparat. The Soviet Bioweapon program that also included the Chemical Weapon Studies. It's just he expose happened in the nineties. This happened in the fifties, but even then, she could expose a lot of things just to keep her alive... in a prison. Outside of it, she's going to be always in danger of getting tagged and liquidated for betraying the Russian Intelligence Programs. 

The only good time they had was after the Berlin Wall came down and before 9/11. After that it has all been covered again by Putin.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Ruthless



Suzie get her fourth KGB!
However we find out it not Suzie it's *Mishka *who is blowing them away!!! Wow!!


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 2.08 What Lies Beneath



Looks like Susie's spy days are over.
Her superiors are already a little miffed that whenever they try to kill her, she kills the would-be killers. (Where to they get these guys? They make Boris and Natasha look competent.) Now that she's fallen into government hands, her handlers will never be convinced that she hasn't been turned.
The feds are going find Susie a tough nut to crack. The key is her kid. If the CIA can get the kid out of Russia, Susie would probably be happy to give them everything she's got on the Russian spy network in the U.S. She and Quinn could get new IDs and live happily ever after in suburban America.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Red Scare



I hope my favorite KGB agent who has killed more KGB agents than a KGB agent is on tonight!!!!
Drool drool drool !!!!!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: 2.09 - Broken Arrow



Oh, Quinn. Man, he is so broken and he's going down the typical road. We men can't help ourselves. Broken heart, sorrow and bottle has gone together for a long time. Saddest thing is that Quinn was losing everything. Not just his love, but his job and everything he has hold dear. The Murica, if you don't mind me saying. 

I get patriotism very well. After all, I am patriotic Finn.  Quinn is supremely loyal to his country. Not the generals he serve, but to his country and I believe he get the foreign and domestic bit from his sworn loyalty to the flag and country. The interesting thing is that JFK which has been portrayed and I believe is one of the greatest US presidents of all time, were willing to push the envelope and take them behind the curtains without having proper clearance.

The Case of the Broken Arrow brings out the theory of visitors being surpremely interested on our development, and it proposes the case that the Pentagon would never admit. That the aliens could not have taken nukes out from the control, even though Broken Arrow has happened a few times during our evolution. But how do we know for sure?

We can't. They will never admit it, even though they should, because it will verify the behaviour and makes us to understand them more. All we know is that they have studied us for a long, long time, and possibly involved themselves in our evolution. I think that is also the case that makes the Pentagon so worried, because if there is nothing they could do to protect the flag and country, then the game is over.

Thing is, and I believe I have brought it out a couple of times already. There is nothing we can do to a supremely technological opponent. The "two thousand miles per hour" quote from the radar operators already talk about that supremacy and it is a similar quote to the Nimitz incident and now famous Tic-Tac's. 

The characteristics that the unknown objects possess are phenomenal compared to anything we have produced. They do manoeuvres, in the bloody atmosphere, that we cannot replicate simply because of the physics. Those damn laws limits us. Yet, time and again, these pesky UAP's keep showing how puny and how limited are in the terms of technology. 

But you look at that technological prowess and think about Vinge's predictions about the Technological Singularity. It is happening. Every year we get more and more advanced. Things keep getting smaller, and we get more powerful, and more destructive. The aliens must have seen this happening countless times in other planets. Maybe even in our history that the time has wiped out away, because there are a lot of people who still believe that we are the first and only civilisation on this planet.

JFK brought them at the end an USO case, very similar to many incidents we have now heard from the witnesses. There is that theory which says that the Atlantians and the Lemurians were advanced civilisations, and so-called gods visited them. The chances are that they weren't wiped away and they learned to survive in the depths of the oceans, and possibly travel stars.

In my first trilogy that predates the necromorphosis I wrote about us moving into the deep sea bases, and learning to utilise all the space while we moved to colonise the space. I illustrated that the advanced civilisation that has risen from the ashes of the nuclear war had learned to go to depths, and develop technology that they were able to use anywhere. In other words they had moved to the technology level one that Dr Kaku has talked about in his interviews and lectures.

You use imagination just a little bit and you start to develop a picture that challenges our current world view. At the same time it shows us a possible way to the next level that maybe moves us closer to the older races. Whoever they are. It's like they have put at front of us a challenge to move us to next level so that there can be a first contact and maybe possibly a unification.

It's just I believe that the Authorities don't want to be vassals to anyone. They don't want to be the underdogs and show the humanity how limited we are to take on everything that the mother natures can throw at us.  To them, the time and dimension doesn't seem to be a problem and according to the eye witness report they can phase through matter. So, a dimensional jump isn't far from that, and taken a bit further we arrive to Kaku's favourite subject, the multiverse. 

I know we humans cannot, or haven't studied the other worlds, because we don't have technology. We haven't found any suitable signals in outer space that correlate with our world view about the technological civilisations. So it has lead us to believe that we are alone, even though Drake's equation says otherwise. If you add in our three dimensional world another dimension, or couple of more, you suddenly start to bend those natural laws, and you move to another technological level. 

It might not be for us or for that matter to anyone to be able to build technological marvels like Dyson Sphere's and control the whole energy of a sun as Kaku theorises. Maybe we don't have to if we learn more about the universe as we already have. Those alien crafts, especially the Roswell wreck challenges our understanding, because the evidence points out to a thin metal alloy craft. Not a massive with thick shields. Not even anything that closely resembles a heat shield. 

For them, taking a simple nuke a part and removing the dangerous bits might be a trivial matter. To us a challenge that needs experience. 

I laughed out loud when Dr Hynek volunteered to disarm the bomb. There was no way he could have not cocked it up, and he did. He is a superman, but at least the writers has learned to make him plausible hero.

Will we learn what happened to Suzy in the next episode?


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Oh, Quinn. Man, he is so broken and he's going down the typical road. We men can't help ourselves. Broken heart, sorrow and bottle has gone together for a long time. Saddest thing is that Quinn was losing everything. Not just his love, but his job and everything he has hold dear.


Could be Quinn is the "broken arrow" in the title, a "broken straight arrow," if you will. 


ctg said:


> For them, taking a simple nuke a part and removing the dangerous bits might be a trivial matter.






I wondered about that. If the aliens could extract the bomb from the plane in mid-flight without killing the pilot and co-pilot, they could easily have been capable of replacing the real guts with a harmless version and dropping the dud near the wreckage.
The position of the bomb, though, made it look more like it had skittered out of a plane while it was plowing through the forest than dropped from above. Very clever, these aliens.
Not so clever, the pair who will never know if they had been sent on a fake mission or not. I noticed that the Russians have become Soviets since the series began.


ctg said:


> Will we learn what happened to Suzy in the next episode?


I was disappointed that Susie was only referenced briefly by the generals in this episode. With one episode remaining in the season, it seems unlikely that her situation will be resolved. Has PBB been given a third season?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Has PBB been given a third season?



No idea.


----------



## REBerg

I took a look. No announcement either way.









						Project Blue Book: Season Three? Has the History Series Been Cancelled or Renewed Yet?
					

Vulture Watch Is this show still out of this world? Has the Project Blue Book TV show been cancelled or renewed for a third season on History? The




					tvseriesfinale.com


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> No idea.


Does good in its time slot , but not sure of its all over how ranks overall.









						Tuesday cable ratings: ‘Project Blue Book’ slips, ‘Vanderpump Rules’ grows
					

It was another steady week for “The Curse of Oak Island.” The History Channel series stayed atop the Tuesday cable chart with its third straight 0.7 rating in the adults 18-49 demo. TNT…




					tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com


----------



## REBerg

Looks like it's at the top of History Channel scripted show ratings. Hope that underwrites its renewal.









						History TV Show Ratings (updated 6/30/2021)
					

The ratings for scripted History TV shows are pretty small but the cable channel remains committed to producing original scripted series. Which of the




					tvseriesfinale.com


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Looks like it's at the top of History Channel scripted show ratings. Hope that underwrites its renewal.



I think there's is a production problem, because of the corona epidemic. The placement also reflects the amount of views this thread has got for some reason. People don't want to talk and get exposed, but they want to know. So, if they can get a permission and can handle the production, then maybe we will see third season.


----------



## ctg

This is the thing that we have to find an answer At least 170,000 lose jobs as film industry grinds to a halt due to coronavirus


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler: 2.09 - Broken Arrow
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, Quinn. Man, he is so broken and he's going down the typical road. We men can't help ourselves. Broken heart, sorrow and bottle has gone together for a long time. Saddest thing is that Quinn was losing everything. Not just his love, but his job and everything he has hold dear. The Murica, if you don't mind me saying.
> 
> I get patriotism very well. After all, I am patriotic Finn.  Quinn is supremely loyal to his country. Not the generals he serve, but to his country and I believe he get the foreign and domestic bit from his sworn loyalty to the flag and country. The interesting thing is that JFK which has been portrayed and I believe is one of the greatest US presidents of all time, were willing to push the envelope and take them behind the curtains without having proper clearance.
> 
> The Case of the Broken Arrow brings out the theory of visitors being surpremely interested on our development, and it proposes the case that the Pentagon would never admit. That the aliens could not have taken nukes out from the control, even though Broken Arrow has happened a few times during our evolution. But how do we know for sure?
> 
> We can't. They will never admit it, even though they should, because it will verify the behaviour and makes us to understand them more. All we know is that they have studied us for a long, long time, and possibly involved themselves in our evolution. I think that is also the case that makes the Pentagon so worried, because if there is nothing they could do to protect the flag and country, then the game is over.
> 
> Thing is, and I believe I have brought it out a couple of times already. There is nothing we can do to a supremely technological opponent. The "two thousand miles per hour" quote from the radar operators already talk about that supremacy and it is a similar quote to the Nimitz incident and now famous Tic-Tac's.
> 
> The characteristics that the unknown objects possess are phenomenal compared to anything we have produced. They do manoeuvres, in the bloody atmosphere, that we cannot replicate simply because of the physics. Those damn laws limits us. Yet, time and again, these pesky UAP's keep showing how puny and how limited are in the terms of technology.
> 
> But you look at that technological prowess and think about Vinge's predictions about the Technological Singularity. It is happening. Every year we get more and more advanced. Things keep getting smaller, and we get more powerful, and more destructive. The aliens must have seen this happening countless times in other planets. Maybe even in our history that the time has wiped out away, because there are a lot of people who still believe that we are the first and only civilisation on this planet.
> 
> JFK brought them at the end an USO case, very similar to many incidents we have now heard from the witnesses. There is that theory which says that the Atlantians and the Lemurians were advanced civilisations, and so-called gods visited them. The chances are that they weren't wiped away and they learned to survive in the depths of the oceans, and possibly travel stars.
> 
> In my first trilogy that predates the necromorphosis I wrote about us moving into the deep sea bases, and learning to utilise all the space while we moved to colonise the space. I illustrated that the advanced civilisation that has risen from the ashes of the nuclear war had learned to go to depths, and develop technology that they were able to use anywhere. In other words they had moved to the technology level one that Dr Kaku has talked about in his interviews and lectures.
> 
> You use imagination just a little bit and you start to develop a picture that challenges our current world view. At the same time it shows us a possible way to the next level that maybe moves us closer to the older races. Whoever they are. It's like they have put at front of us a challenge to move us to next level so that there can be a first contact and maybe possibly a unification.
> 
> It's just I believe that the Authorities don't want to be vassals to anyone. They don't want to be the underdogs and show the humanity how limited we are to take on everything that the mother natures can throw at us.  To them, the time and dimension doesn't seem to be a problem and according to the eye witness report they can phase through matter. So, a dimensional jump isn't far from that, and taken a bit further we arrive to Kaku's favourite subject, the multiverse.
> 
> I know we humans cannot, or haven't studied the other worlds, because we don't have technology. We haven't found any suitable signals in outer space that correlate with our world view about the technological civilisations. So it has lead us to believe that we are alone, even though Drake's equation says otherwise. If you add in our three dimensional world another dimension, or couple of more, you suddenly start to bend those natural laws, and you move to another technological level.
> 
> It might not be for us or for that matter to anyone to be able to build technological marvels like Dyson Sphere's and control the whole energy of a sun as Kaku theorises. Maybe we don't have to if we learn more about the universe as we already have. Those alien crafts, especially the Roswell wreck challenges our understanding, because the evidence points out to a thin metal alloy craft. Not a massive with thick shields. Not even anything that closely resembles a heat shield.
> 
> For them, taking a simple nuke a part and removing the dangerous bits might be a trivial matter. To us a challenge that needs experience.
> 
> I laughed out loud when Dr Hynek volunteered to disarm the bomb. There was no way he could have not cocked it up, and he did. He is a superman, but at least the writers has learned to make him plausible hero.
> 
> Will we learn what happened to Suzy in the next episode?





Spoiler: Handy



One thing I found a bother. For a nuclear weapon , not way to get at the 'core' , usually called 'the pit', with just a set of car trunk tools.
O well it is an alternate universe.
I thought it funny that one sees that 'tool kit' sort of obscurely , sometimes seems no one has it, when it's needed it's finally explicit.
For a moment there I thought they were going to do a bare hands dismantle  !


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Bet cha!



Mimi is gonna give Suzi a gun! Yup! ….


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Mimi is gonna give Suzi a gun! Yup! ….



Then what?


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Then what?





Spoiler: hot lead



Two more KGB agents plugged.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Two more KGB agents plugged.



They have to escape first.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Drat!



Alas! Have to wait till next season!


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: What goes around



I think Mishka will shoot Daria , if not tonight, sometime, once more the KGB downs the KGB!


----------



## ctg

The Pentagon UFO Program’s Secret Partner
					

Blue Blurry Lines: Examining the Mystery and Myths of Unidentified Flying Objects.




					www.blueblurrylines.com
				












						Breaking the Silence: AATIP's Secret Partner Speaks
					

Blue Blurry Lines: Examining the Mystery and Myths of Unidentified Flying Objects.




					www.blueblurrylines.com
				




They are both nice articles, dealing with the same thing, the investigation into the UAP/USOs.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S02E10 - Operation Mainbrace



So long Captain Quinn. You were a beloved character and even though they suggest Hynek's going to find you, there's a possibility that it will never happen. Thing is, the so called 'UFO invasion' happened during the NATO manoeuvres to scare Soviets by show 'a biggest show of force since the War.' And with the war, they didn't mean the Korean One was in full gear at 1954. 

They really had three carriers and escorts out there showing muscles, when the UFO appeared. For years, like the Korean captain said, the sailors has seen things. Lights, ghost ships, things emerging from the sea and flying to sky. One of the sailors told the investigators that he saw a white ping-pong ball.

Something like this






Which is kind of curious, because a friend of mine saw similar kind of object just floating over an hour at London sky. And there were other witnesses too, who saw the same thing. And when I show them the video, they agreed that it was the thing. "The same thing, except it wasn't moving."

So, just like it was the case in the Exercise Mainbrace, there were several witnesses. The curious thing is that they could have proven the case by simply looking at the records and comparing the notes from fired rounds. The admiral could not have said anything. Not when the real ammo was used, and couldn't be explained clearly. But that's the thing about the secrecy, the Pentagon had obviously instructed him to keep quiet, because who knows the Soviets might have done some magic.

I cannot believe that time and again the secrecy threatens the survivability of the humanity. You look at the Covid-19 and you start to see similarities and consequences, because of the taboo. Nobody trust the Chinese numbers, or that orange haired mop at the Oval Office. If you do, you are a fool. It's just you have to apply same analogue to the UFO cases. 

We don't know for sure that it's the aliens, because of the secrecy, but we certainly do know that something far more advanced than us  is visiting us, and in some cases it's not the same people. The evidence and the witness testimonies speak about multiple species. But so do the history. In fact, if you take in the history and remove everything that you were thought in the school you directly enter into the realm of unknown. To things that cannot be explained by mainstream methods. 

You have to believe, just like you do in the case of the God. There's no other way. 

I know it's a big step to some people, and if we are to believe through the recent evidence, it is not a gigantic leap to come out and let us know that the textbooks has to be rewritten and people have to adapt their minds to accept that the reality is stranger than they knew. Not everything can be explained by hard science, because we don't even have the branches of science that could explain things. We just know that something they work without really understanding what's behind it. 

Flick a switch and lights come on, kind of thing. But that's exactly what happened to Captain Quinn. He encountered the lights in the sky and they delivered him a message that he never told to anyone. Not even to Hynek, because there was no time. No right moment. Not before he hijacked a minisubmarine and went to see the lights at the bottom of the sea. 

He had to believe and find a proof to everything. He wanted to explain things and find out if in fact the visitors were a threat to them. You look at that Korean Captain, he told the PBB that boys left and he stayed with the ship. The Triangle Craft transferred them from East China Sea to North Sea and blanketed their minds. 

It is a cruel thing that I wrote about in the third book. Memories are a personal thing. The most sensitive material that one can posses, because you only have one life and no reruns. The Alternative Carbon sleeving system isn't here, even if we are living in the future. It just doesn't work that way. Still we can learn from that story the exact same thing. The memories of the past lives are the most precious thing to Kovacs and to all people who live in that universe. 

Yet, they take them away with a snap of fingers. Funny thing is that is exactly the same thing Admiral ordered him men to do. To forget about it as if it never happened. The sailors are however, and has always been funny people. They are suspicious and don't want to do those sort of things. Although what happens at the sea, sometimes stay at the sea. Then it takes years, decades before the stuff comes up. 

All we know that it happens. There's something down there and it certainly isn't ours. 

What is interesting is that they are once again taking the show back to Antartica and in this time, if the History grants third season, Hynek's going to investigate the mother of all pots, the mysteries of the icy continent. I, personally, am fascinated by that place and some of things that has come up being there. In fact, I'm kind of writing at the moment a space mystery that leads to same place.



If this is the last episode, I'd like to show my appreciation to the History and to the Project Blue Book crew. You have done a remarkable job and stayed consistent to the story. If there is an Emmy, it should go to First or to the Last Episode. Michael Malarkey should be one to get for his role as the Captain Quinn. I know he's not like Edward Rubelt, but in the story he's been a highlight and he has done a remarkable job. One females, I would give it to Ksenia Solo for playing superb and believable femme fatale through two seasons.  Well done guys, well done. Bravo.


----------



## Al Jackson

Spoiler: Puzzled



I thought  Daria was supposed to reappear?
Did Mimi got to Russia?​


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Did Mimi got to Russia?



No. Back then there was no exchange program. So the generals most probably stashed her into a safehouse or back in the jail.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No. Back then there was no exchange program. So the generals most probably stashed her into a safehouse or back in the jail.





Spoiler: Need to know



You mean Susie , I can't believe Susie brought her daughter to the states ! I thought Susie was talking to her daughter on the phone in the USSR?
The place Mimi went didn't look like the USA , and why wasn't that daughter speaking Russian?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> You mean Susie , I can't believe Susie brought her daughter to the states ! I thought Susie was talking to her daughter on the phone in the USSR?
> The place Mimi went didn't look like the USA , and why wasn't that daughter speaking Russian?



Yes. She fooled all of us, and Mimi went and sought out the family described in the letter. They were living in the States, not Russia.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. She fooled all of us, and Mimi went and sought out the family described in the letter. They were living in the States, not Russia.





Spoiler: That's crazy



Living in the states, that makes no sense for a KGB agent.


----------



## Al Jackson

Has the show been renewed?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






Al Jackson said:


> Living in the states, that makes no sense for a KGB agent.



It does. There were a number of people who came over during the war, when you were allies, and even before the war started. In time scale wise it makes sense. It just have been a nine years since 45. The girl is much older, and it is possible that she was recruited at states, trained at Soviets, or under the handler she just gave up. It is plausible to think that they would have a trainer in the States for the recruitment purposes, rather than sending spies over the seas.


----------



## Al Jackson

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does. There were a number of people who came over during the war, when you were allies, and even before the war started. In time scale wise it makes sense. It just have been a nine years since 45. The girl is much older, and it is possible that she was recruited at states, trained at Soviets, or under the handler she just gave up. It is plausible to think that they would have a trainer in the States for the recruitment purposes, rather than sending spies over the seas.





Spoiler: Slapping my forehead



I keep forgetting this is an alternate universe.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 2.10 Operation Mainbrace



Did World War II vintage battleships really have mini-subs aboard? I found no mention of them in the Wikipedia entry on the USS Wisconsin. I would like to take a tour of the old girl, which is now a museum ship in Norfolk, Virginia.
It looked like the mini-sub was torn apart by a depth charge, but it don't think Quinn is dead. The sub just disappeared off the radar. I'm assuming alien teleportation was involved.
The familiar pattern Hynek drew on the map indicated that Quinn might be found in Antarctica? Hynek's go-to MIB must be more than the average UFO aficionado if he has the resources to put Hynek aboard an ice cutter heading for the South Pole.
Good cliffhanger end to the season. Makes me more optimistic that the show will go on.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Did World War II vintage battleships really have mini-subs aboard? I found no mention of them in the Wikipedia entry on the USS Wisconsin. I would like to take a tour of the old girl, which is now a museum ship in Norfolk, Virginia.



No, they would not have had, because it's obvious weakness if you get attacked by torpedoes. It wasn't thought to be necessary for the battleship. They needed to be strong and deliver a punch. Besides the point it's not really easy to steer a submarine, if you haven't been trained and have an experience to work in the depths. 

Here is a good source on submarines. H I Sutton - Covert Shores



REBerg said:


> It looked like the mini-sub was torn apart by a depth charge, but it don't think Quinn is dead. The sub just disappeared off the radar. I'm assuming alien teleportation was involved.



Yeah. The problem is that the previous depth charge had already done damage, and the radio from submarine to the ship doesn't work like that. It was Hollywood magic. Only in recent times they have advanced the underwater telephone. Normally you surface or go to periscope depth to raise an antenna to talk to the surface vessels. So it isn't simple, and there's no way on cancelling the depth charges from going off. It ain't happening. So when the next one landed. It was next to the minisub hull and it exploded just underneath it, breaking the back and sinking the whole vessel. 

Why is that nobody, not even the XO, and you noticed that the XO was missing from the bridge and command chain stopped the mad admiral? You don't shoot blue-on-blue unless they request danger close operation. The whole thing was writers fault, but if you turn your brain off, it works. Including the teleport bit. Where did the water go? 



REBerg said:


> The familiar pattern Hynek drew on the map indicated that Quinn might be found in Antarctica?



There was no connection to the Antartica. It was the MIB who took Hynek there, because of the ancient connections, and structures they have found from there. I recommend you to check Linda Molten Howes Antarctica:<br>Alien Secrets Beneath the Ice if you want to know more. 



REBerg said:


> Good cliffhanger end to the season. Makes me more optimistic that the show will go on.



Yeah, but will it? Are they going to cancel it and go back to normal things, because it's still a taboo.


----------



## Al Jackson

Still no news about season 3 ?


----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

Al Jackson said:


> Still no news about season 3 ?



Just be patient. Everything is cancelled at the moment.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Just be patient. Everything is cancelled at the moment.


Could the aliens be responsible for COVID-19? Maybe they've fumigated the planet to protect the Universe.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Could the aliens be responsible for COVID-19? Maybe they've fumigated the planet to protect the Universe.



They could but I don't think they are. There's logic in that hypothesis. If they would want to get rid of us, they could do it otherwise.


----------



## REBerg




----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

There was a second crash at 47, and it was a bigger one. Mr Dolan explains.


----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

We are all waiting for McD's to reopen.


----------



## ctg




----------



## ctg

Apparently Disney was in bed with the government to produce educational films for the public, including one on alien topic. The film underneath was aired once in five stations back in the nineties, and it was done only once, before it disappeared into the archives. It is a bad copy of a VHS tape, but while there is some Mickey Mouse magic, they also included some real footage. 

Interesting bit is that the production company tried to publish the information many times before nineties, going all the way back to fifties and into the Project Blue Book. Maybe the reasoning behind the secrecy is that the Deep State believed we were not ready. Are we now?


----------



## ctg

Roswell Mortician Interview from National Archives 








			https://catalog.archives.gov/id/2788762


----------



## ctg

Project Blue Book Has a Plan for Season 3
					

The writer and showrunner for History’s Project Blue Book have season three all worked out, if they can find a new home for the show.




					www.denofgeek.com
				












						Sign the Petition
					

Save Project Blue Book - The award winning Mystery Drama TV Series




					www.change.org


----------

