# Foundation on Apple TV



## Al Jackson (Jan 14, 2020)

This came as a surprise to me two photos have appeared that are said to be from production shooting on Asimov's Foundation. Since it looks like a SF setting and I know that Jared Harris is to play Hari Seldon and I don't know of Harris being in any other SF show at the moment (well he is in The Expanse but that has a different setting), these are apparently pics from the set, which it is said is film in Berlin right now! Had not heard production had started even tho Apple green lighted it and the cast has been cast!
That is Harris in the first photo.


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## Vince W (Jan 14, 2020)

Oh ho. Apple is playing this close to the chest. I like the aesthetic so far. I will be keenly interested to see the results.


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## Wyrmlord (Jan 15, 2020)

Jared Harris?? I loved him in Chernobyl and Mad Men. Sign me up.


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## svalbard (Jan 15, 2020)

Let's see what Ricky Gervais makes it of it first...or not.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 15, 2020)

Vince W said:


> Oh ho. Apple is playing this close to the chest. I like the aesthetic so far. I will be keenly interested to see the results.


I read Foundation first in the 1950s, must have somewhere in the 70s, but did read it again about 20 years ago!
It is almost one big detective story.
Someone mentioned to me the first book was written in four parts between 1942 and 1944 and that a lot of the technology of 10,000 years in the future was klunky . I reread the first two parts yesterday. Whew, he was right. It is interesting how Asimov got nuclear power in , Asimov was at Columbia when he wrote those first parts so he knew more than most about that.... however from a 2020 point of view thinking 20 k into the future that almost seems like a steam engine! One does have FTL , jump drives... interstellar travel … but then a lot 20th century technology seem to pop in around the edges … to Hari Seldon does seem to appear as a hologram … it is going to take some imaginative fix up, it can be done.
Like a lot of science fiction in those days no advances in medical technology … long extended life times, (tho it did appear in Blish's SF).
Man there is talk, talk , talk... funny even Asimov , sort of, complained about this when he was convinced to write Forward the Foundation... he went back and read what he had written. In the background there is a lot of set up for action , we shall see , this is not a Star Wars story.


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## Vince W (Jan 15, 2020)

I read Foundation around 1980 and I loved it. I think the fact that it's _not_ a Star Wars story will work heavily in its favour. I need to have a little reread before this airs.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 18, 2020)

Vince W said:


> I read Foundation around 1980 and I loved it. I think the fact that it's _not_ a Star Wars story will work heavily in its favour. I need to have a little reread before this airs.



I read it first in 1954. John Campbell editing Astounding totally boke with pulp magazine science fiction of the 1930s. He published Robert Heinlein, Asimov,  L. Sprague de Camp , Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore , Clifford Simak , Theodore Sturgeon, … the list is quite long... of extraordinary stories almost like no one had seen before (H G Wells and a few others had gotten there first). Foundation for all its talky-ness was big canvas space opera with more sophisticated underpinning than had been seen before. It still reads well if one allows for 1940s 'supersceince' consisting of a odd mix of anachronistic concepts many based on 'atomics' (I don't know if any writer had fusion in their stories then?).  

 A note on the TV series , found a news item that filming started in November …


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## Vince W (Jan 18, 2020)

Al Jackson said:


> I read it first in 1954. John Campbell editing Astounding totally boke with pulp magazine science fiction of the 1930s. He published Robert Heinlein, Asimov,  L. Sprague de Camp , Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore , Clifford Simak , Theodore Sturgeon, … the list is quite long... of extraordinary stories almost like no one had seen before (H G Wells and a few others had gotten there first). Foundation for all its talky-ness was big canvas space opera with more sophisticated underpinning than had been seen before. It still reads well if one allows for 1940s 'supersceince' consisting of a odd mix of anachronistic concepts many based on 'atomics' (I don't know if any writer had fusion in their stories then?).
> 
> A note on the TV series , found a news item that filming started in November …


1954, wow. You have a unique perspective on science fiction I'm sure. John Campbell seems to be persona non grata at the moment but he certainly dragged science fiction away from the pulps. I wonder where science fiction would be without his work.

I will say that it seems that Apple is doing far better with Foundation than BBC America is doing with Discworld.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 18, 2020)

Al Jackson said:


> I read it first in 1954. John Campbell editing Astounding totally boke with pulp magazine science fiction of the 1930s. He published Robert Heinlein, Asimov,  L. Sprague de Camp , Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore , Clifford Simak , Theodore Sturgeon, … the list is quite long... of extraordinary stories almost like no one had seen before (H G Wells and a few others had gotten there first). Foundation for all its talky-ness was big canvas space opera with more sophisticated underpinning than had been seen before. It still reads well if one allows for 1940s 'supersceince' consisting of a odd mix of anachronistic concepts many based on 'atomics' (I don't know if any writer had fusion in their stories then?).
> 
> A note on the TV series , found a news item that filming started in November …





Vince W said:


> 1954, wow. You have a unique perspective on science fiction I'm sure. John Campbell seems to be persona non grata at the moment but he certainly dragged science fiction away from the pulps. I wonder where science fiction would be without his work.
> 
> I will say that it seems that Apple is doing far better with Foundation than BBC America is doing with Discworld.



There are alot of negatives about John W Campbell .  In the present era a man with his and prejudices could not exist in  mainstream publishing .  That said , his contributions to science fiction and fantasy were considerable . Without him ,  Imagine how little we would have to read .

I read first First Three Foundation books  long, long ago. It was the epic Science fction series Id ever read and tat time , I remembered being impressed by the scope and she story telling.  Asimov  knew how a spin a great saga .


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## Al Jackson (Jan 18, 2020)

Vince W said:


> 1954, wow. You have a unique perspective on science fiction I'm sure. John Campbell seems to be persona non grata at the moment but he certainly dragged science fiction away from the pulps. I wonder where science fiction would be without his work.
> 
> I will say that it seems that Apple is doing far better with Foundation than BBC America is doing with Discworld.



A friend of mine had the ACE double paperbacks of Foundation and Foundation and Empire.... which were not called that... The 1000 Year Plan and The Man Who Upset the Universe …. odd titles.... I quickly learned that the first novel was missing a whole 4th 'book'.... so I went to the library and found the Gnome editions and read the missing section.... as awful as the covers were ACE did help Asimov get a wider audience.


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## Vince W (Jan 19, 2020)

I never knew about those alternate titles @Al Jackson. Just goes to show you, you can be surprised at how little one 'knows'. ACE did a lot to further the genre of science fiction. There are many authors that would be forgotten or unknown if it weren't for ACE.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 19, 2020)

This month is Asimov's 100 birthday. 
When Gnome collected the parts in 1951 Asimov wrote a story introduction that was never in Astounding.
 The very first appearance of Foundation was a story in the May 1942 Issue of Astounding. For the first novel Asimov wrote a new front end... "The Psychohistorians" in 1951... in the May 1942 issue of ASF "The Encyclopedists" appeared under the name Foundation. Asimov did not make the cover. The story is listed in t e table of contents.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 19, 2020)

The end of the Foundation series , Second Foundation, appeared in Jan. 1948 and Nov. 1949 as "Now You See It" and "... Now You Don't", actually pretty clever titles not used in the non-magazine publications. Both cover were by Rogers the only the second one deals directly with the story... in fact the Nov. 49 cover is the best illustration for Astounding within the Astounding appearances … to me all the interior illos for the stories are a bit second rate.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 19, 2020)

I can't really say there have been outstanding illustrations for Foundation... the best that I know of are by  Micheal Whelan.


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## Vince W (Jan 19, 2020)

Those are good illustrations. Foundation doesn't lend itself to 'action' covers. That still hasn't seemed to harm it any.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 19, 2020)

Vince W said:


> Those are good illustrations. Foundation doesn't lend itself to 'action' covers. That still hasn't seemed to harm it any.


We only have those two still for production design from the series... there is a lot of room for concepts that Asimov hints at but does not describe much , Trantor for one.


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## Vince W (Jan 19, 2020)

I would hope to see some new designs that aren't too closely modelled on Star Wars. That would be a letdown.


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## Al Jackson (Jan 22, 2020)

New item , found out production started in November 2019 on Foundation. 
Found no new pics or information. I think production ends in the spring... so fall of 2020?

Read the novels again. Whew! So much talk! A lot is described that is off stage that would be Big Canvas if brought on stage.
Novels 2 and 3 are more interesting that novel 1.


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## Vince W (Jan 23, 2020)

Autumn seems reasonable. They might try for summer but then the end product would probably suffer.


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## Al Jackson (Feb 4, 2020)

News recently is that principal photography will be done in Ireland (not Northern Ireland) , they must have filmed in Berlin only briefly if they started in November, filming must have already been going on in Jan.


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## Vince W (Feb 4, 2020)

Interesting news indeed. I wonder if they need any extras? 

Apple TV+ drama 'Foundation' to become Ireland's biggest-ever production


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## Al Jackson (Mar 13, 2020)

Foundation production suspended. Hmm seems they must have been near end of production?

https://deadline.com/2020/03/foundation-tv-series-suspends-production-ireland-coronavirus-pandemic-1202882010/?fbclid=IwAR1KqvfGb5cdjfj2YWmOorjA2CNilZoWY2DXVB6GMr8HqsjqSjQWhFv0-Vk


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## Vince W (Mar 13, 2020)

Hardly unexpected given the state of play in the world. Hopefully, it can resume in a few weeks.


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## Vince W (Jun 22, 2020)

First trailer arrives!


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## BAYLOR (Jun 22, 2020)

It looks really good !


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## Vince W (Jun 22, 2020)

It does. I will subscribe for this series.


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## Ori Vandewalle (Jun 23, 2020)

I've always been skeptical that Foundation could be brought to the screen, and I don't know about this attempt, but there's nothing that will stop me from watching it anyway. Also I think Jared Harris is a good choice for Seldon.


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## ctg (Jun 23, 2020)

Apple gives us our first glimpse of Foundation, adapted from Asimov series
					

“The empire will fall. Order will vanish. This massive event is rushing to meet us.”




					arstechnica.com
				




I had my doubts. Not any more.


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## Droflet (Jun 23, 2020)

I'll wait and see. But until then ...  WOW!!!!!


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## Fried Egg (Jun 23, 2020)

Sounds great but...Apple TV? I don't think I even have a device that will support their app, even if I wanted to subscribe to another service...


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## Elckerlyc (Jun 23, 2020)

Fried Egg said:


> Sounds great but...Apple TV? I don't think I even have a device that will support their app, even if I wanted to subscribe to another service...


*sigh*
Same here.


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## Vince W (Jun 26, 2020)

I've watched the trailer a few times now and something is bothering me. It's been about 40 years since I read Foundation et. al. and I don't recall quite as many guns as the trailer seems to show. This worries me.


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## ctg (Jun 26, 2020)

Vince W said:


> I've watched the trailer a few times now and something is bothering me. It's been about 40 years since I read Foundation et. al. and I don't recall quite as many guns as the trailer seems to show. This worries me.



I wouldn't. It's going to be a good one and the thing is Foundation was about the end of civilisation. You cannot have a good end without some guns. I was more excited about the space vehicles. They were almost exact copies from the illustrations going back to eighties. I cannot remember the artist or the name of the book, but they were exciting. Much so like the books.

Most of us don't remember much about the Foundation. Sorry Asimov.


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## Vince W (Jun 26, 2020)

That tears it. Off to the bookpile to pull out my copy of foundation.


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## ctg (Jun 27, 2020)

Vince W said:


> That tears it. Off to the bookpile to pull out my copy of foundation.



All of them, including the Robots?


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## Vince W (Jun 27, 2020)

ctg said:


> All of them, including the Robots?


Perhaps, but the original trilogy for now.


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## BAYLOR (Jul 17, 2020)

Vince W said:


> I've watched the trailer a few times now and something is bothering me. It's been about 40 years since I read Foundation et. al. and I don't recall quite as many guns as the trailer seems to show. This worries me.



I read it decades ago and  my memory is a big foggy . Which is why I need to reread the original 3 books. 

I would imagine that thye have probably updated  the story in places


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## Vince W (Jul 17, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> I read it decades ago and  my memory is a big foggy . Which is why I need to reread the original 3 books.
> 
> I would imagine that thye have probably updated  the story in places


I'm reading the original trilogy now and it's great stuff. The only bits that really need updating are some references to diseases that should be knocked on the head in another 50,000 years and altering the idea of plain fission reactions as a primary source of energy to something a bit more exotic. Other than a few technical details the stories can stand on their own.


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## Vince W (Jan 22, 2021)

Here's something to keep you going until the series debuts.


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## Vince W (Feb 15, 2021)

Apple+’s Adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s ‘Foundation’ Set to Start Airing in Autumn 2021


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## BAYLOR (Feb 15, 2021)

Vince W said:


> Here's something to keep you going until the series debuts.



That looks a bit like *The Caves of Steel *


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## Vince W (Feb 19, 2021)

Apple+ Renews ‘Foundation’ For a Second Series


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## ctg (Feb 19, 2021)

Vince W said:


> Apple+ Renews ‘Foundation’ For a Second Series



Already?


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## Vince W (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes. They are clearly investing heavily in this.


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## ctg (Jun 29, 2021)

We finally have a release date and new teaser for Apple TV+ series Foundation
					

First three episodes will debut on September 24, with weekly episodes after that.




					arstechnica.com


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## Valtharius (Jun 29, 2021)

I have distinct memories of watching a fan-made trailer for a rumoured Foundation movie over 10 years ago on YouTube. It's kind of surreal to me that this is finally happening.


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## Ori Vandewalle (Jun 29, 2021)

With Seldon being a central character I kind of figured they'd be lifting stuff from _Prelude to Foundation_ and _Forward the Foundation_ but even so... I recognize very little in this trailer. I heard one (approximate) line from the books, though: "Order will vanish... wars will be endless," which Seldon  declares during his trial in the first part of book 1, and which I only remember because I once tried to write a Foundation movie script...

Still gonna watch, though.


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## Vince W (Jun 30, 2021)

So they've turned Hari Seldon into a cult leader. Sigh.


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## ctg (Jun 30, 2021)

Vince W said:


> So they've turned Hari Seldon into a cult leader. Sigh.



Hold on to your horses, we haven't seen the product, but we should have guessed that they were going to make changes. So before we are truly disappointed, let's just wait and see.


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## Ori Vandewalle (Jun 30, 2021)

It is true that in _The Psychohistorians_, the powers that be on Trantor were worried that Seldon _was_ a cult leader. He _had_ gathered together a hundred thousand people to work on a seeeecret project.


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## KiraAnn (Jul 12, 2021)

I've seen the trailers on YouTube, and I'm not going to get a subscription to Apple+ for it. I might watch it on NetFlix or HBO, but I'm not overly impressed with what I've seen.


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## ctg (Aug 20, 2021)

Stunning official trailer for Foundation whets the appetite for more
					

"We can murder the man, but what about the movement?"




					arstechnica.com
				




Very cool. I got chills and goosebumps from the trailer.


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## Droflet (Aug 20, 2021)

Fingers crossed.


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## Vince W (Aug 20, 2021)

It seems they've added a lot of action that Asmiov only mentioned in the stories as sort of background. I can understand that, needing to draw in people who know nothing about *Foundation*.

I'm not sure about the tagline 'Change Your Fate'. That makes it sound like the downfall can somehow be averted rather than the Foundation's goal of shortening the dark time. Maybe that's just my take on it.

I do hope this is good though.


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## ctg (Aug 20, 2021)

Vince W said:


> It seems they've added a lot of action that Asmiov only mentioned in the stories as sort of background. I can understand that needing to draw in people who know nothing about *Foundation*.



A lot of people haven't read it or even touched it, even though I'd personally put it to need to read material in school. The thing is the end we know is going to be vicious and the end of a galactic empire isn't going to be a whistle or burp. 

I think they are cleverly playing the overall story narrative and give the audience more visuals, rather than make this to be a costume drama. I do hope they devote enough of time in the Foundation to establish the narrative parts, while the empire crumbles. 

Curiously I didn't see any aliens, even though there are aliens in the Foundation universe. Overall I think it is a good trailer as it gives enough for the audience to latch on.


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## Vince W (Aug 20, 2021)

That's the problem with trailers. I don't know how many times I've been burned by a great trailer then go to see the film only to be disappointed because the only good bits were already in the trailer.   

Still, there's a lot more material to this than a 90 minute film.


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## ctg (Sep 21, 2021)

> “Whenever I’m adapting something, I read it again or watch it again, and I try to write down what I think the core ideas are, the essential ingredients,” he told io9 over video chat. “In this case, because Asimov wasn’t alive, I was talking to his estate, to his daughter, and I said, I want to make sure that I’ve identified the core ingredients that make _Foundation_, _Foundation_. Fortunately, they said, yeah, we feel like you’ve zeroed in on the most important elements. And because we’re adapting it now, over 70 years after Asimov first wrote it—you know, it was a metaphorical story back in the post-World War II environment—some of the events, some of the things that we’re interrogating, we’re going to have to change because we’re speaking to an audience of today and not an audience post-World War II.”
> 
> The first big, important change: diversifying the characters. “Because there are virtually no female characters in the first book, I said to the Asimov estate, ‘How would you how would you feel if we gender-flipped a couple of the characters?’ And they said, ‘We love it. We think Asimov himself would have completely embraced that,’” Goyer said.











						Foundation's David S. Goyer on the Key Changes Made for the Adaptation
					

Showrunner, writer, and executive producer David S. Goyer discusses the new Apple TV+ adaptation of Asimov's sci-fi classic.




					gizmodo.com
				






> Overall, the characters became the anchor point for _Foundation_’s sprawling story. “It’s impossible to do a line-for-line, word-for-word adaptation of _Foundation_, especially 70 years later. So you try to make sure that you cleave to the core tenants—but, let’s be honest, people tune in for the characters. So you need to make sure that the characters have fully three-dimensional lives, that we care about their hopes and their dreams. The books are primarily books about ideas. A lot of big events happen off-screen and kind of in-between sentences. We knew that we were going to dramatize some of those events. But the thing that I really tried to dig down into is the characters—so I tried to figure out ways of creating characters that could inhabit the themes and ideas that Asimov was working with.”


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## ctg (Sep 24, 2021)

> It’s often said sci-fi is never about the future but the present – and there’s some truth to that in _Foundation_. The references to climate change are pretty on-the-nose (rising sea levels flooding worlds, politicians ignoring inconvenient science, humans struggling to solve existential issues), but ultimately don’t feel forced. Overall, it makes a unrivalled basis for a world-class sci-fi series.
> 
> And yet, in the midst of this lush world-building, something is missing. It isn’t that the acting was bad (although the amazing Jared Harris, who was billed as the lead, appears infrequently) or that there aren’t good moments of writing either. It’s more that you find yourself wondering why anything that happens in the show particularly matters. It’s hard to mourn after terrorist bombings that leave hundreds of millions dead when you never really see a body, or a broken family (you barely even see damaged buildings). Or care about the supposed downfall of a galactic empire when that entire crisis largely happens off-screen. At times, it really does remind you of _Game of Thrones_-in-Space, insofar as it wastes time on a lot of pointless sex scenes and political intrigues that aren’t all that intriguing. Generally, the show is at its worst when it tries to be ‘human’. Much like the stilted empire that serves as the show’s centrepiece, there’s something wrong at the core of _Foundation_.
> 
> In the end, Asimov disavowed the idea of psychohistory. Unlike individual molecules, he said, human behaviour “is far too complicated” to map and human history is “so chaotic that it probably can never be predicted”. Drawing absolute lines between the individual and the society they form a part of doesn’t really work. But much like the theory itself, and frankly a lot of Asimov’s writing, _Foundation_ finds itself dwelling on the abstract molecular mass of society, and ignoring the individual parts of it. And without that human core you increasingly find yourself struggling to locate _Foundation’s_ soul.











						Foundation is Apple’s first (flawed) TV masterpiece
					

Foundation on Apple TV+ is a masterclass in world-building that forgets its inhabitants




					www.wired.co.uk
				




hhrrmmm, I guess we'll really have to see it to know if it's good or not. More so, this reminds me about the hype surrounding Raised by Wolves and that series ultimate flop to insanity. I don't know how they are going to crawl out from it.


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## Vince W (Sep 24, 2021)

ctg said:


> Foundation is Apple’s first (flawed) TV masterpiece
> 
> 
> Foundation on Apple TV+ is a masterclass in world-building that forgets its inhabitants
> ...


I'll wait until I see it myself. I will sign up for my free trial later today and give it a look. If it isn't good I can cancel the trial and continue to ignore Apple TV.


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## Mon0Zer0 (Sep 24, 2021)

Episode 1. 

Just finished watching it and First up it's beautiful to look at. A concept artist's wet dream - beautiful production design, wonderful images of spaceships and classic sci-fi imagery. A little too much so, it all seems a little too style over substance. The cinematography is less impressive when there are humans in the frame and the CG-ness of it all brings a sheen of artificiality. Beautiful images alone don't make gripping TV, though.

There seems to be a weird rule for movies / TV. If the acting or dialogue is not good enough to carry the scene, plaster some incidental music underneath to plaster over the lack of emotion. There is certainly a bit of that going on with the younger actors here.

Jared Harris is, well, Jared Harris as Seldon. And charismatic as ever. The guy could act the phone book and still make it gripping. It's interesting that the lead's acting seems to up a notch in his presence.

There are some unconvincing American accents on display.

Overall - will continue watching. It does feel a bit Jupiter rising /  Raised by Wolves, though.


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## ctg (Sep 24, 2021)

Spoiler: S01E01 - The Emperor's Peace



First of all I like that they start from the galactic picture and go in depth to show the expanse of human imperium. And they're not afraid of showing alien worlds or even alien species, much in same way as Lucas Star Wars. We know for the fact George took inspiration from Asimov's Foundation but a lot of his stuff were too complicated to put on film.

There are so, so many similarities to Lucas project but also analogues to others, including dreaded Raised by Wolves. But unlike in his stuff, Asimov was a master on Ultra Tech. Stuff that's way beyond of our understanding, almost close to magic. 

I have no way of explaining the vault technology the kids encountered at the beginning. And neither did the kids.






So the real story behind the "Null Field" and "The Vault" starts in heart of the Imperium of Man, at Trantor, where grandious and monumental past joins the ultra modern. Yet, they have books and libraries, even though Asimov often went far beyond the printed stuff. 

I think he was first one to propose something like an optical storage medium in the SF work, especially in regards of the timespan that the Foundation project was supposed to take. Books can last, but for all the information that the Foundation project is supposed the gather it's not going to be enough.

Although in design wise, when you are working with the ultra technology, going back to renaissance style opuses is an interesting choice. Maybe people like to hold onto things rather than adapt to industrialised cybernetics and those sort of things.






Grandmaster Asimov never went to fantasy side, his superheroes were scientists, physicians, and mathematicians like Gaal. It is interesting to note that our superheroes like for example Dr Hawkins were a mathematician at heart. In similar tone to Einstein and Gall he were able to predict things and prove them mathematically, not just by a feeling or through a Force vision.

Another intriguing detail is that Gaal's background in the series is from an aquatic, kind of backwater planet, and in a similar tone to a Indian Mathematician trip to England. I'm sorry for forgetting the name, but his transition from rural India to urban England is symbolically similar to Gall's transition to be part of the Imperium. 

It's intriguing that the Imperium has access to FTL technology, but its citizens doesn't really understand how it all works. Almost as if they've degenerated because the stuff is so far beyond the norm. 

I loved that the jumpship created a wormhole and used it as a vessel to jump into the hyperspace. In similar tone, they showed that the space crew has to be augmented and that the cyber/bio technology is for the crew to survive. Thing is, it opens a door to the secrets, visions and all sorts of other things, especially when Gaal somehow wakes up in middle of the trip. 

Seeing the jumpship docking to a space-elevator is something I've wanted to see all my life. So thank you AMZ for that. You can see an artistic vision to my of elevator at the cover of Book 2. Therefore it was not a surprise that Gaal reacted similarly.  

I also accept that Trantor is one gigantic exopolis, where billions live thanks to the technology. And somehow, the nature isn't all messed up.






"Dawn. Day and Dusk. The Genetic Dynasty..." The heart of the corruption, the ultimate vessels of transhuman species at the peak of the evolution. It irked me that they called Day as Empire and not Emperor. 

But just like the emperor he's interest seemed to lay on the corruption gained through legal immunity. It was as if they chose to paint him dishonourable straight from the beginning and not as Emperor tipping into the darkness, just because it's fun and intriguing new thing.

Being able to brag about ability of sending people "down 50 levels" is pure terrorism and it seems that Day is drunk from power. It has gone in his head. Yet, his so called brothers aren't as ruthless as he is. 

I didn't need to be Hari to be able to see the darkness or to understand what the ambassadors were grumbling about. I think they did a good job on showing how it all started to fold in 30 minutes. Especially how things are locked together and what is at the stage. 

It was as if the Imperium of Man had taken a position where The Genetic Dynasty's word were the Bible and there could be no other truth. It speaks highly about the politics of terror, of stupidity and total ignorance when it comes to facts and proofs. 

Most intriguing detail is that Emperor's court isn't made from idiots. There are a lot of people who asked very good questions in regards of Hari's prediction. All we know that the future isn't set in the stone. It has been said time and again. And even Hari himself claims that his "project can shorten the Fall to thousand years..."

Yet Gaal was unable to prove him wrong. Exciting. 






Death of the Stalk. Man they did this well. It was terrifying and tensile at the same time. All after the proof had given, almost as if it had been planned. But by whom? Hari? My money is on Empire's corrupted politics.

Very well done. Superb catastrophe pr0n and good costume drama in the aftermath.



I liked the first episode, and I will post the second one tomorrow.


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## Mon0Zer0 (Sep 24, 2021)

I must admit, I thought the terrorist attack was a little tasteless in its execution - particularly when it focused in on the people in the capsules. There was something about it that was just a little off.


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## ctg (Sep 25, 2021)

Spoiler






Mon0Zer0 said:


> I must admit, I thought the terrorist attack was a little tasteless in its execution - particularly when it focused in on the people in the capsules. There was something about it that was just a little off.



The whole act is cowardly act, but all that Day was doing wasn't any different. To me the highlight was in the destruction in a similar way I admire the whole construction. There has been a lot of speculation about what would happen if the stalk would fall, and their interpretation was one of the answers.


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## ctg (Sep 25, 2021)

Spoiler: S01E02 - Preparing to Live 



Imperium's Wrath, merciless and terrifying at the same time. Just like it is in our time, when it comes to striking so called terrorists. The biggest bully in the block is the Imperium of Man. And the Empire was driving the point in the last episode, when he uttered: "Now you have Peace," almost as if there was other side of the coin that would've say: "1984."

I assume that like many others G. Orwell also read Asimov, but what we see came after Orwell's piece and to me, it's hard to not think about that book when I watch the Imperium doing its thing.

What surprised me is that in privacy Day seem to think about the casualties through the image of Imperium. That to outside it seems spotless, while the reality is far from that. 






It troubles me that Hari's lot is moving in space at sublight speeds and somehow they are making the trip in timespan that can be counted in days, even though Terminus is located at galactic rim. How is that working in reality, because it's breaking the physics.

Then they showed a swimming pool and I almost lost it. We know that in space, in microgravity water creates blobs. A swimming pool in a Hard SF spaceship would be a sphere and not a pool. 

It wasn't the last thing as next we learned that Gaal is advancing sexually and hide-the-sausage seems to be the only thing in her mind. To me it seemed to occupy her mind during the training and she broke the character, by not counting primes when the beast appeared. 

I liked that the pregnant engineer told Gaal off for asking her to put the baby in the storage. It felt right, especially as Gaal in the series is still a teen. 






The Stalk Fall aftermath was well done. I liked that Day was riding on top his madness, while Dusk were seeking a refuge from art and then from a religion. I was thinking what would happen, if Dusk died and Day would have to take his place, while Dawn would advance to acquire the most important throne.

Old age is a difficult beast, and you have so many regrets. At some point everything seems to be faulty and nothing you ever is good enough, while the time is running out. Oh, how he must have wished that Hari would never had done his predictions, because it was really the thing that broke the camels back. Nothing was the same after Hari's testimony and as soon as he uttered it, it became a prophesy.

The most important fact is that Gaal saw Hari's work wasn't complete. It didn't had all the parameters, leaving open some of the conclusions. More over it leaned towards the fact that the Imperium said that Hari was causing the Fall. 

Hari also admitted that he didn't expect to be in the space on his way to make the Foundation reality. I assume that he calculated his end and when it didn't happen, it surprised him, positively. All while the Fall advanced because of Day's madness on the revenge. 

The old man tried to talk some sense into the Emperor, knowing very well that he might have done some things differently. His approach to talking to the ambassadors were far different than Day's one. And yet, he was doubting the words.

Because of that madness, there is no change in the future. No matter what Imperium does if I cannot even see that it is in the fault and the ways it goes to fix it, cannot provide a result. Not a positive one. No matter how much one could wish. 

Everything has an end date. Nothing lasts forever. 

Maybe it is the Imperium that is faulty and that model cannot never ever last forever, because it could be as well be a con job, a pyramid scheme that wrongly places power at the hands of very, very few. 

The Foundation suggests another model, as we saw in the planning meeting, a committee instead of a gang of elitists. 






Execution of worlds. And ambassadors. It was very well done. But at the same time I paid into Hari's prediction, where trillions of human would be slaughtered in the death throes of the Imperium. "War is Peace. Ignorance is Strength. Freedom is slavery."

1984. It's so easy to see that hubris coming alive in the small screen and think what if the Emperor would have been wiser. Why is it that we keep repeating the mistakes time and again? 






Why?


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## ctg (Sep 25, 2021)

Well, I can see why some of the reviewers are talking about the analogue to the Game of Thrones, because it's the closest thing to explain some of scenes. But unlike in that series, Foundation's biggest problem is that time-scale. 

I think they've done good enough of job on making the material their own and giving the audience an epic spectacle. It is a grand journey and I accept the choices they've done, even though some part of believes that I should stop here and put this one side. 

What do you think, should we stop here, or carry on?


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## Vince W (Sep 25, 2021)

I've watched the first episode.

The good:
Cast is very good and it is well acted.
It is gorgeous to look at. Apple clearly expects everyone to have a 4K+ television.

The bad:
If you're expecting a faithful adaptation, forget it.
Very little of Asimov's story or style is included. Where Asimov got straight to the heart of the story this is ponderously slow-building. At some points it's downright boring.

The ugly:
I couldn't help but think of Game of Thrones while watching this. Not because of the story but rather there seems to be an underlying current of casual cruelty that feels completely out of place. It shows in the actions of the Emperor and by the inclusion of all too real acts of violence for the sake of modernising the story to capture the average viewer unfamiliar with the story, Asimov, or scifi.

If it was just the good and the bad I would say this could end up being very watchable in the end. However, the ugly, if it continues, may be too much for me to stomach and I'll end up abandoning this after the second or maybe third episode.


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## Vince W (Sep 26, 2021)

Asimov's* Foundation* is based on Gibbon's T*he History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire *and Apple is highlighting that with Game of Thrones style drama. This will undoubtedly appeal to a great many people but I was not a fan of GoT and never got through the first series. This may keep me from becoming a fan of this series which is unfortunate as Apple has clearly put a lot of effort into it.


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## REBerg (Sep 27, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> First of all I like that they start from the galactic picture and go in depth to show the expanse of human imperium. And they're not afraid of showing alien worlds or even alien species, much in same way as Lucas Star Wars. We know for the fact George took inspiration from Asimov's Foundation but a lot of his stuff were too complicated to put on film.
> 
> There are so, so many similarities to Lucas project but also analogues to others, including dreaded Raised by Wolves. But unlike in his stuff, Asimov was a master on Ultra Tech. Stuff that's way beyond of our understanding, almost close to magic.



The mind-boggling special effects grabbed me right from the get-go. I'd love to use the opening credits as a screen saver.
It will no doubt take a bit for the character development and plot to catch up, but I'm willing to be patient.


Vince W said:


> If you're expecting a faithful adaptation, forget it.


As always, I have no issues with series elements which are at odds with the source material. In this case, I read the original _Foundation Trilogy_ in 1978 and the sequel _Foundation's Edge _in 1984, which means I have virtually zero recollection of their contents. I'm OK with that.


Vince W said:


> I couldn't help but think of Game of Thrones while watching this.



A rabid _Game of Thrones_ fan, I am thrilled at the resemblance. I'll be disappointed if space dragons don't show up soon. 



ctg said:


> But just like the emperor he's interest seemed to lay on the corruption gained through legal immunity. It was as if they chose to paint him dishonourable straight from the beginning and not as Emperor tipping into the darkness, just because it's fun and intriguing new thing.



I accept the fact that Brother Day is a real baddie, but I can't take him too seriously because I still remember him as dog-loving pie-maker, Ned on _Pushing Daisies._ Selective memory can be a bad thing.



ctg said:


> I think they've done good enough of job on making the material their own and giving the audience an epic spectacle. It is a grand journey and I accept the choices they've done, even though some part of believes that I should stop here and put this one side.
> 
> What do you think, should we stop here, or carry on?


Carry on!



ctg said:


> Why?


I can't even theorize the reason for this murder, other than making certain that viewers watch episode 3 for an explanation. It had better be a good one!


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## DrStrangelove (Sep 27, 2021)

Disclaimer: a rant. Fell free to return fire at any idea I got wrong while being emotional.

As my avatar can hardly hide my fondness for the setting, I think this series, at this point, is one of the worst experiences I've had in the genre - and I liked the Dune adaptations, so I am quite elastic in terms of artistic licence.

Noone will convince me that the authors (or rathher the billion producers listed in the credits, as nowadays everything is just producers) actually care about the broader topics and setting. That behind the mish-mush of Dune and Altered Carbon anyone even understands the original work.

The series reminds, to a great extent, Notre Dame de Paris. A book - concerned with the immortal building in which shadows people commit untold depravities, but which will outlast them all, and the broadly known musical adaptation and Disney story, in which the toxic womanizer from the book literally becomes a prince charming, and the Cathedral, the central point of the book, is relegated to nice aesthetics. 

In Asimovs work the Plan outshines the people. Seldon, or rather his Dead Hand, uncaringly guides humanity through it's needed journey, only in time showing the cracks. In the series, the plan is shown to be flawed from the very start. In the books, the Empires starts as fairly secular and materialist, if prone to burocratic overload, slowly descending into superstition and barbarism. In the series, it's magitech feudalism from the very start. It very much tries to show the viewer it is in dialogue with the original, pretentiously so, shoving around such beatiful phrases as "math is not about the numbers" or "Art is just politics", vocalises things that naturaly come from even a brief analysis of the text, but only to show how the writers are big brained and smart, without proper consequence. 

I understand the enthusiasm of people that like GoT, and got (huh) GoT in space. Great for you, it is great (no irony intended) you got something that makes you happier in this dank world. I, unfortunately, came to see the Foundation. 

Rant over, I'm open to all the flak I deserve


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## ctg (Sep 27, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I can't even theorize the reason for this murder, other than making certain that viewers watch episode 3 for an explanation. It had better be a good one!



I can and it's not because Hari was going to tip a sausage in wrong pie, but because he had hired his executioner and the table talk in the mess hall was the last tipping point. It was all the past errors and mistakes, plus maybe the Empire offered something that boy couldn't refuse.

Then there is the numbers, the unfinished business and pushing the event to begin. I think boy knows more about Hari's business and he decided to make a move, because there was too many lies and following the old man would have doomed the Foundation project. 

It's just I keep remembering Hari's line and his shock on still being alive at the beginning of the Foundation Project. I assume that he had calculated his death to be part of the equation and it was time for his executioner to do the deed.





DrStrangelove said:


> Rant over, I'm open to all the flak I deserve



You won't receive any unless we have gone totally bonkers. All views are welcomed.


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## zeph (Sep 27, 2021)

Unfortunately, it is exactly what you’d expect from an adaptation done by a committee of hollywood producer types and vetted by the diversity and inclusion board.


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## ctg (Sep 28, 2021)

Learned something new, Eto Demerzel (Laura Birn) has a Finnish accent, but strange thing is, I didn't recognise it. I thought she looked so familiar, but I never bothered doing the research in imdb as it turns that she was born in Helsinki. 

So I have to ask, as I've battled with this, trying to lose my own Finnish accent for over eighteen years, does hers bother you guys?


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## ctg (Sep 28, 2021)

zeph said:


> Unfortunately, it is exactly what you’d expect from an adaptation done by a committee of hollywood producer types and vetted by the diversity and inclusion board.



I've read and thought about your line at least a hundred times. So I have to ask a clarification, what do you mean, exactly? 

A lot of people didn't expect to ever been able to see the grand spectacle that is Foundation or Clark's Rendezvous with Rama. A lot of it was down to the fact that the technology wasn't there, but now we can produce these spectacles and expect them to be a quality product. 

I get that purists hate the changes, but they have adapted central parts that Asimov's family blessed, while they've also brought in elements from other grand spectacles instead of going down 110 percent what a writer presents on the paper. 

So, can you please clarify about what you mean with all of it?


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## Elckerlyc (Sep 28, 2021)

ctg said:


> So I have to ask, as I've battled with this, trying to lose my own Finnish accent for over eighteen years, does hers bother you guys?



Yeah, interesting question, which connects with the question I have.
I see complaints every now and then in reviews about Australian, American or British accents. So, what would be the correct accent (if there is any)? I suspect it is all in the Ear of the Beholder.


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## ctg (Sep 28, 2021)

Elckerlyc said:


> So, what would be the correct accent (if there is any)? I suspect it is all in the Ear of the Beholder.



It's just sometimes I get back a comment, "Can't understand you," even though they do. There is also no equivalent for word "please" in Finnish language. So I struggle with using it and I have to think about using it instead of going with normal yes, no, maybe sort of answers.


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## Elckerlyc (Sep 28, 2021)

Well, I suspect comments like these says more about the people who make them than about your accent. (risky remark as I have never heard you speak!   ) Dialects are more of a problem, I think. To me anyway, but I'm not a native English speaker.
Finns never say please?  I'm shocked. But I recognize that kind of difficulty when speaking a foreign tongue. I hardly _speak_ English anymore these days, opposed to writing obviously which allows you (theoretically!) to catch and correct errors, but 'Dutchisms' tended to creep in. Still do, even in writing.


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## ctg (Sep 28, 2021)

Spoiler



After Raych learns from Gaal that Hari’s endtimes theory might have some key pieces missing, he stabs his father figure, then puts Gaal in a cryosleep-enabled escape pod before sending her off to parts unknown. It’s a startling turn for a character whose loyalties had, seemingly, only just begun to waver. “In a sense, we’ve outlined a lot of the dynamics at play, and there he is trying to navigate those opposing forces,” Enoch said of Raych’s drastic action. “Speaking of that episode, it’s brilliant. I remember [starting the script for] episode two and I went, ‘Wait, what’s going on here? ‘And I got to the end, and I was shocked. It was shock, after shock, after shock. But there was something really satisfying in finding the story twisting and turning in that way, but it feeling very well-motivated and not feeling gratuitous.”

Despite the surprising parts of the show—the stabbing is by no means the only act of violence we see in the early episodes—Enoch thinks _Foundation _is still a hopeful story. “I hope it’s something that, yes, entertains people, but encourages people to reflect on the way our society is or where we fit within our relationships with authority and learning and the importance of it. I [hope] it causes people to reflect, because I think that’s something exciting that can happen when we’re presented with a world that is different from our own, that can shed light. It gives us a perspective—maybe at a bit more of a distance we can start seeing things we might not have noticed otherwise. If it provokes a little bit of thought as well as entertaining people, I’ll be very happy with that.”











						Foundation's Alfred Enoch on His Character's Role in the Sci-Fi Saga
					

The actor portraying Raych Seldon opens up about the Apple TV+ adaptation of Isaac Asimov's classic.




					gizmodo.com


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## DrStrangelove (Sep 28, 2021)

ctg said:


> Learned something new, Eto Demerzel (Laura Birn) has a Finnish accent, but strange thing is, I didn't recognise it. I thought she looked so familiar, but I never bothered doing the research in imdb as it turns that she was born in Helsinki.
> 
> So I have to ask, as I've battled with this, trying to lose my own Finnish accent for over eighteen years, does hers bother you guys?



I would not have guessed, but no, I actually enjoy *most* accents (the ones that tend to trigger me a little are South/Central Asian, but only as long as it is English, not native languages)


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## Elckerlyc (Sep 28, 2021)

Spoiler: Spoiler



"But there was something really satisfying in finding the story twisting and turning in that way, but it feeling very well-motivated and not feeling gratuitous.”

Well, I suppose you _can_ characterize a twist in which a simple, stupid, unmotivated crime of passion ruins the execution and realization of The Plan as satisfying, plotwise, but I won't. Alfred Enoch might think it "very well-motivated and not feeling gratuitous,” but I suspect he is alone in the universe on this point.
No matter how you look at it, the murder, spacing Gaal (albeit in a pod) into a dense asteroid field, executed all without encountering someone else, none of it makes sense. What could he possibly think to achieve by that?
It also leaves open the question what Hari's intentions where by insulting Raych at the dinner table. Not in a way though that you would provoke someone to have him kill you, really? Because that was my initial explanation of this absurd end of episode 2. Somehow Hari Seldon, who hadn't expected to live and be part of the exile to Terminus, discovered that his continuing presence would influence the outcome of The Plan in a negative way. This is also why he requested Gaal to preside the meetings. And then looked for a far-fetched way to have himself murdered.
Not in pschycohistory, because that can't predict actions by individuals. But by bad manners?


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## ctg (Sep 28, 2021)

Spoiler






Elckerlyc said:


> No matter how you look at it, the murder, spacing Gaal (albeit in a pod) into a dense asteroid field, executed all without encountering someone else, none of it makes sense. What could he possibly think to achieve by that?
> It also leaves open the question what Hari's intentions where by insulting Raych at the dinner table. Not in a way though that you would provoke someone to have him kill you, really? Because that was my initial explanation of this absurd end of episode 2. Somehow Hari Seldon, who hadn't expected to live and be part of the exile to Terminus, discovered that his continuing presence would influence the outcome of The Plan in a negative way. This is also why he requested Gaal to preside the meetings. And then looked for a far-fetched way to have himself murdered.
> Not in pschycohistory, because that can't predict actions by individuals. But by bad manners?



It was not just bad manners. It was the whole revelation,. but we don't know much about it until Gaal meets the team again. To my eyes, it definitely looked as if Hari pushed the buttons to get him off the equation. But why didn't he wanted to finish it and see the whole thing, when he already could figure out that his future was not set on stone?


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## ctg (Oct 1, 2021)

Thank you all for your replies. They are needed. Not just for us but for the producers, who might be actually scanning these posts, as we have often found out. To me it's clear that the Fruit Company has invested heavily in the spectacular SF, especially in on Space Pron as their other flagship product is the For The Mankind. The intriguing detail is that FtM is Alt History and Alt Future, while this series is definitely Alternative Future. 

There is no multiverse, but there is something that I can feel being part of the Fantasy class and I'm intrigued if they'll dip into it or will they stay in the SF realm. As far as what comes to the GoT style play with the Empire of Mankind, I don't mind, but they should totally expand and embrace the court cast to give it depth and intrigue.

And on personal level, it's good to see Far Futuristic stuff that isn't SW or ST. Do you agree?

Also as a note, this isn't over an hour long episode as they have cut time to under just fifty minutes.









Spoiler: S01E03 - The Mathemacian's Ghost



It's interesting that Eto is essentially an immortal machine. In the Raised by Wolves, she would be a droid god, while in the Foundation she is the vessel that carries the story over the millenniums. To her, time has different meaning, but in reality it's interesting that she seems to remember a lot of the events, even though the share number of notions must be filling her memory storage. 

In the episode, we saw that at the beginning of the Genetic Dynasty the Emperor had a choice and he was still doing to the good thing, even caring about the state of the Imperium. But over the four hundred years of cloning the same seed thing really effed and all that was good were ruined by corruption of the 'elite organism.'

Some could even claim that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."






I love watching the hubris of the elite. The choices they think are important and the people, who serve them with dignity. It's just seeing Brother Dusk in his questionable underwear I would have certainly giggled. I could not have kept a straight face. But the Tailor were absolutely into all of it, and he represent the same cast of people that fixes the living fresco. A highly skilled individual that are next to nothing in eyes of the Empire. 

With that I mean the acting Empire. He doesn't seem to care about any of the legacy and that must heavily weigh in Hari's equation. It's just how do you measure it. How do you put in all the variables that affect the outcome?

It troubled me that he claimed to Brother Dusk that the Imperium will somehow replicate the StarBridge program, even though they were heading straight into the chaos and the darkness of the Fall. 

In the idea level that variations in the soul should work for the advance of the Genetic Dynasty, but in the practical level it seems that the corruption is in the gene part. From what we know it needs to replicate and renew through mutation. In the Dynasty version that error keep creeping into the clones as the time advances. And with an evil soul, with too much power, the Fall of the Imperium is inevitable. 

Even I can make that out, and I'm not a mathematician. 

So is Hari's play just a clever analysis or did he actually figure out how the cosmos works?

Also I don't get why the Dynasty has termination program for the clones and why the last one is called Darkness?

The first Cleo was preserved, but we saw that there was nothing left of the emperor, when he went through the termination program. Is that how they become digitised memories for the pedestals?






So Terminus is what we call today as Super-Earth. It has large moons, oceans, greenery and mountains and that famous thin blue line. From those brief shots, it also seemed to have volcanic plumes. Therefore, a living planet, with a lot to offer for the colonists. 

It surprised me that the Vault location artifact was already there and the colonists couldn't explain it at all. They wrapped some foil and came up with the aliens theory, just like us with unexplainable technology. And also just like us, everyone were dismissing it, because of the alien angle. They cannot be real, can they?

It's just nobody was saying nothing about alien fauna. To my eyes it looked very alien.






I loved seeing another Council meeting. Them arguing over the minute details that means nothing in the galactic timescale. A thousand year or that matter five millenniums is nothing, but to human timescale it's everything. 

Going back to sundial time measuring is one way of doing things, but it's not the only way. It's just none of them are doing anything to gather all the knowledge, including that bad stuff so that nobody has to reinvent the wheel and go through the wrong stuff. 

I understand the argument of having one system, but when you're rebuilding the civilisation can you be selective, when one solution doesn't apply to all? Just like the town cannot be expanding just next to the Null field without some sort of measurements. 






I loved listening to the Privateer's banter on the different systems. It is that Asimov magic, his descriptions that veer on the plausible territory. But when you take into the account all that we know about the exoplanets and their exotic compositions, all that he was saying were definitely plausible. And absolutely in territory that used to inspire so many people to join the space programs. 

But what he's talking about is interstellar trade done in the real time, also by breaking the rules by going to places faster than light can travel. It is not like you'll have a trader that travels in sublight speeds and then reports back five hundred years later. 

You could not have a human relationship with normal physics, could you? Interstellar trade has problems and the sins of the Empire in the Imperial outpost certainly presents an intriguing problem. 

So what should they do? I mean really, as in their shoes alliance with the imperial enemy is also a possibility.


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## Vince W (Oct 1, 2021)

I agree that it's nice to have something that isn't SW or ST but I had hoped to get a little more Asimov and a lot less Martin. It's turning this classic book into a formulaic, by the numbers, shock quest. The goal here isn't to tell a great story but rather tell enough story to set viewers up for the next shock to keep them interested until the next episode.


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## Valtharius (Oct 1, 2021)

I'm not a Fruit Company subscriber but it sounds like about what I expected. I guess Asimov is just too...intellectual for a mass audience? Is that the problem?


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## Vince W (Oct 1, 2021)

I don't think Asimov is too intellectual. Quite the opposite. His writing is clear, concise, and easy to grasp. It's just not violent or titillating enough for today's desensitised audiences.


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## Valtharius (Oct 1, 2021)

Yeah that sounds about right.


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## Elckerlyc (Oct 2, 2021)

I am still not thrilled, after watching episode 3. Perhaps I'll write a review tomorrow. when I have found the proper words to describe it.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 4, 2021)

Vince W said:


> I don't think Asimov is too intellectual. Quite the opposite. His writing is clear, concise, and easy to grasp. It's just not violent or titillating enough for today's desensitised audiences.



The plan is for the show 8 seasons. Will they make it?


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## Vince W (Oct 4, 2021)

Episode 3. Bland and directionless. They're edging into 'The Mayors' territory but rather poorly.

Unsurprisingly they've added a lot of extraneous material but they can't seem to decide how they want characters to be portrayed. In the first two episodes, the Emperor(s) are clearly meant to be hated but then we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

What's clearly missing is Asimov's firm belief that intelligence and careful planning will do more than threats and aggression. 



BAYLOR said:


> The plan is for the show 8 seasons. Will they make it?


Given the current tone and direction; unlikely.

I know it sounds like I want this series to fail but I'm quite the opposite. They could've added a lot of needless padding as long as they had kept the clear story Asimov gave us. I'm actually desperate for this series to be great but so far no luck.

Remember the first two seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation? They were pretty dismal at points but by the third things really came together. This may be the problem with limited series like this. Eight or ten episodes a series is not enough to come to grips with the characters by the actors and the fans, especially for something as big as Foundation.

A longer series would give everyone a chance to breathe and relieve the pressure on the characters and the stories. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## ctg (Oct 5, 2021)

I have thought and thought about how they could fix and I have to agree that I was feeling lost with number of cast, especially with them not addressing themselves with names. There is a lot that could and should be done to allow the cast to breath, and I'm not sure if there is a material for eight seasons, when they are taking huge leaps. 

It's just they've already wrapped up the filming and what we'll see is coming straight from the post-production FX teams. So, there is a little room for improvements in story wise. In the next season they have another chance to slow down the pace and allow some padding. Maybe even a filler episode or two. 

So I think we'll have to take the first season as it is and hope that Fruit Company reads these comments.


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## zeph (Oct 8, 2021)

nm...


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## ctg (Oct 8, 2021)

zeph said:


> nm...


Don't be scared, please. I know it can be intimidating to throw out your thoughts and opinions, but it is also a pleasure as you get to express your point of view. There is nothing wrong on voicing your thoughts. It is welcomed here.


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## ctg (Oct 8, 2021)

Maybe it's me but they've changed the title sequence and it goes much more along the ideas that can be found in the original covers and the art books. Also note that they've again cut down the runtime, this one being around the 44 minute mark. A top imdb comment also says, from a none book reader that the character development has become lazy and that there are pacing issues, with the episode score standing at 7.4 at the writing moment.



Spoiler: 1.04 - Barbarians at the Gates (Panic, hide the rum!)



"Once, a man came to Hari Seldon and asked to be told his fate. He wanted to know whether the predictive model could chart the significance of his life. But Hari told him only the movements of masses could be predicted."

The story itself counters Hari's claim on being able to chart the course of next five or so millenias and the hypothesis behind his death is that he orchestrated the end of his life. The story itself is a part of the Hard SF, with the knowledge of old school mathematician behind it. It is what it is, but it's not the whole truth, because of course the model can be applied to chart all sorts of things, not just masses. 

The story explanation is, "The fate of one individual will always remain a mystery," throwing again a wedge in Hari's ability to predict his presence in the equation and what it would do to the balance of things. Sure it's hard, but there's another SF classic called Cattage that breaths into the lump of cindered coal. In it a man works against the system that is geared on being able to predict one's life and therefore put him in the best position. But the man cheats the "transhuman" system by being a normal man (well trained and disciplined). 

The system and Hari's equation doesn't count in the anomalies, but the timeline does. I bet Hari's equation cannot predict their appearance and how much they can influence the history, but it should and if it doesn't Gall should absolutely fix it, in order to give the Foundation the most accurate model of the universe and its movements. 

It's kind of funny that neither ST nor SW never approached the Hard SF and maths. But what is interesting is that ST approves the multiverse, while SW shies away from it. We know through the physic experiments that it is a real thing. Not just tales invented in writers heads.

The hard truth is that the Future is not set in stone, it fluctuates.






Why is it that only Day seems to have power and the rest has to accept his will? It is also a bit difficult for the viewer to understand the gravity of the play the ambassador presented to the dynasty, before Dawn popped the question about the Primary Octavo - the soul transference or its state after the death. 

It goes well along the title Barbarians at the Gates, because the Empire position is always against the radicalism, including ideas. It is as if they have put themselves into a box and refuse to acknowledge that there is anything outside the norm. In other words there is only the box.

The problem is that trio doesn't see that they all have souls and that they have a whole hall full of souls that completely debunk through the evidence Primary Octavo theory. They cannot see further then their nose. 






Why are the so-called barbarians wearing a leather armour? I get that they lost their home systems to the Imperium, but they still have access to the military vessels and other equipment. Where are their power armours that Imperium is showing at above shot? 

It is an intriguing detail in similar way on how the Warden fooled the nomads with her knowledge on the land and technology. If you're able to cross the vast distances in interstellar space, then surely you must have more knowledge then what the chief hunter were having in that land speeder. 

Warden also seem to be the only realist in the Foundation. She has a good eye on the detail and she ain't scared on calling BS on scientists ideas. What she lacks is the experience and through that the wisdom, specifically trust on her intuition. Not everyone has it, but those who do, like the Warden can train herself to trust it more. But that also breaths into coal of Hari's equation, because the intuition predicts near future, ie. you have a feeling about something is about to happen and you'll have an idea about what to do about it.

I love how she used it to read the barbarian woman, but at the end it was on bar with telepathy. Almost as if she knew exactly but she just needed time to read the hunter and figure out her identity. Only she couldn't figure out what it meant and she almost panicked when the barbarians showed force. 

I get that the leaders feels pressure, but she's (the Warden) is clearly under it because she's lacking on the experience. All direct evidence of the character development.






It throws me off that the Genetic Dynasty always wear the same face, and that the Brother Day is always a d*ck. It's like somethings never changes, even though they have different souls. But further they go down the timeline, more they seem to open eyes to the history lessons.

Maybe, therefore, there is some truth on the Primary Octavo theory as the pattern keeps repeating itself no matter whose behind the wheel. But it is hard to see if the Dynasty is getting worse, when the pattern stays the same.

The Empire couldn't even believe in the factual science. All the dynasty is doing is making sure it's going to fall ... at some point.






Not barbarians. They are very cunning and capable of more than showing force. It's like they enjoy playing ruses. They clearly understands the technology and its value. Maybe even better after the Imperium assaulted their systems.



I don't agree with the imdb top comment, the pacing is fine. And so is the character development.


----------



## zeph (Oct 8, 2021)

ctg said:


> Don't be scared, please. I know it can be intimidating to throw out your thoughts and opinions, but it is also a pleasure as you get to express your point of view. There is nothing wrong on voicing your thoughts. It is welcomed here.


Best to say nothing at all if you have nothing good to say. I’ve already expressed my disappointment with the show, no need to continue harping on it. Episode 4 did nothing to change my feeling about the show. It all looks magnificent, but it’s not Foundation.

Also, an earlier post was removed by the mods for ”politics”, and as a noob here I don’t want to be that guy.


----------



## BAYLOR (Oct 9, 2021)

zeph said:


> Best to say nothing at all if you have nothing good to say. I’ve already expressed my disappointment with the show, no need to continue harping on it. Episode 4 did nothing to change my feeling about the show. It all looks magnificent, but it’s not Foundation.
> 
> Also, an earlier post was removed by the mods for ”politics”, and as a noob here I don’t want to be that guy.



It's gotten a second season renewal.


----------



## ctg (Oct 16, 2021)

This episode is around 51 minutes long and I forgot that the Foundation is on. So, apologies, but seeing from IMDBs score of 7.2 that I didn't miss anything or did I?



Spoiler: 1.05 - Upon Awakening



Well, it seems we got a background story for Gaal. Two episodes she has been missing, presumably lost in space. And since it so massive, with no boundaries, finding one rescue pod ... seems impossible. Hence why we haven't seen any search and rescue efforts, until the writers comes along and rescue the character from oblivion. 

I am personally guilty for doing that sort of activity, just to keep tension up and in Foundation timeline, they could have kept her in dark for a very long time. In fact, I would have reconstructed the episodes a bit differently, and not giving Hari or Gaal so much time in the opening episodes, but instead I'd have used flashbacks to flesh out that story.

Why should I care about her, when there's more understandable characters like for example Warden in the Terminus? I don't and to be honest, at the moment I don't care as I don't see her function in the bigger picture. So, to me the religious debate between reason and probability lost its meaning. 

Seeing Gaal dooming her teacher to the sea just made me lose hope on the character and I wished her to be lost in the space for forever. It certainly didn't make me feel any better, when she went to fish out the texts from twenty meter depth and then after studying, she continue doing religious debates on things. 

It's as if the controversies are tearing her apart.

As soon as she'd been rescued from the void I started to care. I was with her in the Awakening and in terror of beign absolutely clueless about anything. Including that fact that she'd been in sleep for over thirty years.

The Ai certainly was unhelpful and it remained true to its core by being the brains of the rescue ship. What I don't get is how it had all the information about the events, including the trial and the execution of Raych Foss. Gall used words search and the Ai replayed immediately, even though in my mind the ship was accessing a galactic internet. 

Where's the lag?

Not that it mattered as Gaal saved the show by hacking the Ai by using science and maths. 

What I don't get is that how Foss had organised the ship? Is this again about the fact that Hari had calculated his death into the equation and Foss willingly acted upon it? 

Also the last scene, is the big man alive or is he a hologram, a ghost in the machine?






"Pull up a wide-spectrum planetary scans. I want population, power plants, weapons."

Ensign looks at her console and replies, "Primary power source is a geothermal cell ten klicks north."



Well done ensign, well done. Hilarious cock up and it completely broke the illusion. I loved the Imperial entrance to already tensile situation and seeing the Grand Huntress smirking on the news I guesses that blood spilling was in the order. 

To be honest, if the quality of the Imperial forces is such that they cannot do a proper justice for the readings then they should be doomed, even though they arrived as a cavalry rescue. So I liked that the barbarians acted smart and jammed the signals, before the imperial commander got enough of information. 

It's just he didn't and the pompous idiot went straight into the trap, instead of being the smart one. In his shoes I would have commenced drop pods and all the invasion article, including calling back up against those three destroyers. 

Warden acted smartly by trying to take out the Grand Huntress, as under numbered it was her only card that she could play, without ordering her people to stand down. 

Now at least they stood on their feet instead of begged for mercy on their knees. The pompous idiot captain, farewell, we didn't need you.


----------



## Elckerlyc (Oct 16, 2021)

Spoiler



Albeit far from perfect, I found this one of the better episodes. Not good, but better.
Gaal's backstory comes at a curious moment, now that it added little to nothing on what was already known or hinted at in episode 1. And at the same time it fell short by not fleshing out enough the religion on Synnax(?) and its hostile attitude towards acquiring knowledge. It does however take courage and time to wrestle yourself free from such a tight and restricted community, where nothing can happen or being said without someone noticing it. The backstory wasn't in all aspects convincing. But I find this to be the problem with the series as a whole so far, with a narrating which is often a bit too sketchy, jumpy and often with fleeting hints at certain facts or events. The whole feels unsteady and cluttered.

The survival of Gaal didn't come as a surprise. I had already concluded that a comeback was in the works. Nothing else of what Raych did would make sense otherwise. And above all, we didn't see her dead, only put in cryo-sleep in a rescue-pod and disappear into deep space. It had al been prepared and staged.
Gaal may been clever in the way she circumvented an obnoxious AI, she failed however continuously to ask_ whose_ authority it was that the AI requested. This, I guess, will turn out to be Hari Seldon (but that would have been a give away, hence Gaal didn't ask.) We see finally something that presumably is a hologram of Hari, with puddles of holographic blood. Hari's blood, which Gaal will find on the knife Raych dropped next to Gaal in the rescue pod. It has been shown repeatedly, still dripping with blood.
Or Hari may show up himself. He was 'buried' in a casket he especially had prepared for himself. The burial followed more or less the same route Gaal's rescue pod had.

The Empirical cruiser blasted out of hyperspace (or whatever mode of FTL is being used) directly overhead of the one small settling on the whole planet. I am always so impressed by these miraculous events. The commander promptly shows he hadn't done his homework in advance. "Pull up wide-spectrum planetary scans. I want population, power plants, weapons." What did he expect to find on Terminus, a 30 year old settlement of exiles?
What he should have expected was some hostilities, but he comes wholly unprepared for one single shot by artillery. Goodbye cruiser. No one wonder the Empire is going to Fall.
But will the settlement on Terminus survive? Not by another miraculous appearance, surely?

All in all this episode was entertaining and, to some degree, exciting. But the writing remains sloppy. (To be clear, not Asimov's fault.)


----------



## Vince W (Oct 16, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> It's gotten a second season renewal.


Apple has too few shows _not_ to renew.


----------



## ctg (Oct 17, 2021)

Elckerlyc said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> But will the settlement on Terminus survive? Not by another miraculous appearance, surely?





Spoiler



Surely it will survive and they just got supplies from that crash landed ship. They might not get weapons, but they'll get alloys, electronics, software updates, hardware updates, maybe even a couple good power cores. 

It's just will the writers allow such exploitation and positive growth for the community?


----------



## ctg (Oct 23, 2021)

6.7 on iMdb, interesting. The length is around 55 minutes.



Spoiler: 1.06 - Death and the Maiden



I find it extremely interesting that the Spacers are all taller and have bigger eyes then we do. It is breathing into the theory that in the darkness of space your eyes evolve, they become bigger to catch more light. 

They also seemed to worship the embodiment of the ultimate transhuman, the Emperor as if he's the salvation. From his point of view, he doesn't even consider the worshippers being human. Demerzel kind of confirmed it by saying that the human mind cannot comprehend the warp space, making the Spacers as a different species ... in the theory.

So, Asimov's human only spacetime continuum goes away and the series leans on the fact that we are not alone in the universe. And that seems rile up some of the commentators in the iMdb, because the fruit company is going against the known facts.  






"How is it that you believe," Emperor asked.

Demerzel thought for a moment and answered, "From the moment you come into the world, you and your brothers know your purpose. But the rest of us have to seek these things on our own."

"But... you know your purpose. It's to serve my brothers, to serve me, to serve the Empire above all. It's literally written into your code."

She nodded. "And I am quite fullfilled in that purpose. But the search for meaning is not always about the answer. It's also the process of seeking that enlightens. The goddesses didn't choose to be split into three. They long to be made one again. The salty terrain of the Maiden is said to be their tears. But it was their sacrifice that graced the rest of with wholeness. At every point in our lives, we have the power to choose our own path."

Like in Asimov's books the droids are great teachers, just because of their longevity. They have their programming and their rules. And yet they are their own lives and their own free will. And in this case, she chose to believe rather than staying completely logical and cold. 

You look at ST's Data as an example, and he too, even though blessed with longevity he chose life and family. Not just to stay as a machine, but as a machine with a soul. But we can't say that she has a ghost inside the machine, because that is totally different concept. It's just that over the time and generations, she developed her own soul. Just like you can experience with Asimov's robots. 

We can be glad that Robin Williams showed that side very well in Bicentennial Man.






The Salt Palace, what magnificent fortress. That ain't natural place, even if the foundation looks erosion patterns. But it also makes you think that why they chose to do it over fifteen thousand years ago, when the space flight and all the advanced technologies were already there? 

The Luminecent people aren't dump or unsophisticated. It made me giggle when their intellect surpassed Emperor's wisdom. Brother Day has so much to learn and by the time he has done on learning everything in their vast empire, he has already turned to Dawn and knowledge is lost, when the cycle renews itself. Everything remains as it was. 

It impressed me that the Imperium offered to "build a moon-wide desalination system" instead of saying, "You now have peace." But when you think about all those three trillion souls praising the empire, it is a small price to pay for the loyalty. For a keeping the status-quo instead of Hari's Chaos.

[Imgur](https://imgur.com/uRWJwg1)

Damn, that Imperium cruiser almost disintegrated. In the Star Wars we have seen proper battle damage, and the ruins of vessels littering planet surfaces. But in this series, almost nothing was left. And yet, the pompous captain somehow survived with a couple of bruises and cuts to his face. How is this possible?

I admire how well the Barbarians put together the takeover and the purge. It was all planned, before the Grand Huntress revealed the true aim, the Vault. It is the great unknown to them as well. The StarShip is just a step and it really intrigued me that their aim was to restore the Imperial Vessel for a possible strike. 

Hari most certainly didn't think that the knowledge stored in the Foundation was going to be used to aim on act of war, when he spoke about it. And I really doubted that he counted in that the Barbarians were going to use a ghost ship for the mission. 

I like that they bring in a hint of fantasy and bring in the relics like the Invictus. Warden called it as the First Seldon crisis. Then again, I'd say that taking our three corvettes with a three man team against a company of strike troops is a suicide mission.

When the heat turned up, she shouted, "There's too many."

That Ms Warden is a facepalm moment. You effed it up by thinking you're superior against the numbers. Heroism happens when you take actions that a grave, but you do them anyway, despite the risk. That's what the old man did. He sacrificed himself for the greater good and took out the corvettes. Plus whoever was left of those fighters.






Damn, Hari ordered his death. So, maybe he absolutely predicted the movements  of certain things in the future, but he also needed for his death to happen so that the equation would remain true. It is almost like a plot point in a con job. And the explanation was that remaining with Gaal was impossible, because everything hinged on the murder plot. A little step towards the chaos instead of doing it all for real ... as he'd solemnly vowed in his speech. 

That scheming *******. LOL. 






This was the most tensile scene in the episode. I was wriggling and gringing in my chair, while thinking that's super dangerous. Especially when the chemistry takes over and you lose the sense from your mind as the passion and sexdrive takes over. 

Man, the balls on the colour blinded Emperor, they're made from brass. Slip and you're gone with your new partner. Who the hell needs forcefields. when you have balls and mind like that?






Damn woman, telling to Emperor's face that he's no holy. The mighty arrogance. Man, that made me smile like nothing else. Think about doing that to Pope's face, and you know what the reaction will be. She spoke clearly about the stagnation and corruption that is in the heart of the Imperium. 

It is the truth that the Imperium cannot accept. The lives of all individuals in the galaxy should be tied to one tyranny. It is not right that everything piles to dynasty.



I liked it and I thought it was a good episode.


----------



## ctg (Oct 30, 2021)

7.4 on iMdb. The length is just shy over 47 minutes.



Spoiler: S01E07 - Mysteries and Martyrs



I could say that after Hari's death there has been a lot of speculation on whether the galaxy is on downfall or not. Without Warden's boyfriend telling us that they'd left the mining business, because the empire stopped supplying hardware to outer rim, I wouldn't have really known that it's happening.

Why? Well, let's just say that a galaxy is a big place and even in SW the conflict was only about in the half of the systems. Not in all of them. Yet, Hari's prediction talks about all. Yet, it has not happened. The business is as usual, even though there is some decrepitation.

What I don't get is why the Invictus was abandoned in the Outer Reaches? But I liked that they did the boarding with space suits. A daring job as a pebble can end the run. They looked motionless in the footage, but just like with any 'space junk' one is enough to create a very bad day.

In fact, their approach was nothing but easy and I kept thinking how many men can they lose, before they are too low on numbers. But the Grand Huntress didn't care. All she wanted was the massive ship, the doomsday weapon. Everything else could go to hell.

Thing is, if she would have told that the Invictus had malfunctioned and were in the verge of jumping away again, they could have put together a plan, instead of trusting in the Hail Mary.

Well, get it done before it jumps again. That is a serious pressure, with no guarantees on the survival. Until the Grand Huntress told the plan on suicidal strike on Trantor I thought they were trying to make up a fleet.






Brother Day, it must be hard when you realise that you're no longer a god. Not that the Genetic Dynasty has ever been gods. They are just humans, and it's kind of weird how much all of the power has gone into their heads.

I think Cleon I would have been pleased for some activity instead of stagnation that happened in the Imperium of Man. Not him. Not the dynasty. I loved watching Brother Day squirming when the priest told what's what directly to his face.

Thing is I didn't see Brother Day taking action on his hands and doing things actually instead of hiding behind the facade of the Imperium. Just like what new Brother Dawn is with his beloved as he is living his life instead of following the protocol..

Dawn said that they are all copies and the changes are not really allowed. And that is the problem. There is no easy fix. Not without breaking the protocol and allowing the chaos to renew things. Who knows, maybe the Dynasty survives through mutation.






So everything's effed. Gaal was no supposed to be in the resurrection ship. She was suppose to lead the Foundation through its first crisis. Raych was supposed to live and somehow enable for Hari to remain as a ghost in the machine. To me that completely throws out Hari's predictions as it makes his math faulty.

in fact, he knew his prediction being faulty and that he needed to be a cog in machine that would go through the time to reach the Foundation at the end. Strangest thing is that Gaal saw the math faulty but she chose to play the game.

What I couldn't predict and neither did Hari is Gaal turning to a sage or to an oracle. Only she's following her dreams instead of seeing them to others.

So fantasy meets reality in Asimov's play.


----------



## REBerg (Oct 30, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> They are just humans, and it's kind of weird how much all of the power has gone into their heads.


Isn't that the case more often than not? Acquisition of power is generally followed by its abuse.


ctg said:


> Brother Dawn is with his beloved as he is living his life instead of following the protocol..


I wondered about that. Have any other Cleons successfully escaped? Is that the real reason for having Dawn, Day and Dusk replacement copies ready to roll?


----------



## ctg (Oct 30, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I wondered about that. Have any other Cleons successfully escaped? Is that the real reason for having Dawn, Day and Dusk replacement copies ready to roll?


I talked in the previous one, where they revealed the Hall of Emperors about them all being slightly diverse, but as we know from the classic Jurassic Park "Nature finds its way." Genetic mutations isn't a big thing, expect that somehow Dawns code was altered some much that he's different from the rest. 

It is going to be intriguing to see how his time in power as Brother Day is going to happen, and if he'll have Trantor to rule, when they get that "planet killer" running. Warden most certainly has story shield as we did find from Hari's case. 

It also can be a case that somehow impurities got fed into the cloning machine and they caused the genetic mutations, and I also think there might be the case that Cleo I did spec the machine the introduce anomalies.


----------



## ctg (Nov 3, 2021)

The Art Of Foundation
					

Apple's big sci-fi series is, if nothing else, absolutely gorgeous to look at




					kotaku.com


----------



## Vince W (Nov 3, 2021)

No question, Foundation is gorgeous.


----------



## ctg (Nov 5, 2021)

8.1 on iMdb. 55 minutes in length. Interesting.  



Spoiler: 1.08 - The Missing Piece



The atrocity of killing Anacreon is quite unbelievable. It was a living planet. Full of forests, and not much of seas. In other words it was kind of paradise we dream about. A planet that's not going to through a climate change through deforestation. 

So, it's kind of hard to think that from such a place of beauty would be the birth place for the plot that killed the SkyBridge. It also explains why the expedition leader is called the Grand Huntress, when all of it is in the life style ... or rather was, before the Imperium forced them into the war. 

As that part of the plot thickens, you'll start to think that maybe Hari was behind it all. That he had no choice but to make his predictions real, even though his mathematical model was false. If that's true then doesn't that make Hari equivalent to Hitler?

To try to avert to upcoming chaos Warden said, "If you strike Trantor, the entire Outer Reach will suffer." 

The Grand Huntress wafted it off. "You simply have no concept of revenge, do you? I don't care about the mankind." But that's the thing, if the Genetic Dynasty nor its opposition doesn't care then surely the galaxy is going through hell in a very chaotic times. 

But the way the Grand Huntress described all of things it really feels like the gods are in the play, moving pieces, causing chaos while humanity suffers. 






The only conclusion that either one of them could arrive, without voicing it is that Gaal is an oracle, but in the classical terms it means "a voice of gods." So, you see there's a lot more fantasy than science, but it doesn't mean that it's not real. Psionic powers like telepathy or telekinesis could be the same, a gift from the gods. 

Hari simply put it, "You're extraordinary." Funny thing is that he cocked up straight afterwards by claiming that Gaal's ability, her presence is going to "cock up the psychohistory." In other words, he confirmed that it's bulls biscuits, a simple lie, a hoax or a ponzi scheme, with Hari sitting on top of the pyramid. 

No wonder why he built a ship that can incorporate within its shell his immortal soul. Maybe so that he can travel in space forever, making sure that both Foundations would survive the turmoil of thousands of years of chaos. 

Why does that feel a bit like WH40k?

Hari explained the presence of the Second Foundation as a need to make sure that everything survives. Gaal didn't buy it. All she wanted to was to go to end her story at Terminus .. as if intended. 

138 year trip is going to be a long one.






I thought for a while would the Emperor do the walk without his gadgets and Occam's Razor were saying no. Yet, he donned the costume and ditched everything to become a mortal. Demerzel told him that at the end he would be granted a vision, linking a gods in the play. 

170 km trek in an arid desert, with no provisions is one way trip, and all he wanted to take with him was a salt crystal from the android's bracelet. Man that is not only an endurance test, but also test of your knowledge and ability to make yourself useful instead of being just talking head. For a pampered emperor that is an arduous task. 

Yet, he was going through it as if he was on a Sunday stroll through the meadows. I certainly couldn't see him pissing in his sock in Bear Gryll's style and using whatever means to survive the trip. Maybe Triple Goddess is protecting him. 

I loved watching him changing in the mortal costume, by caring for another mortal for as long as it lasted. He truly walked in the valley of shadow of death and survived to the end to be embraced by the gods. 

It's kind of funny how he was so opposed to any of it at the beginning of the journey. But the transformation meant nothing as at the end, he just wished for his enemy to disappear and the instrument for that was the person who set him in the path of enlightement, Demerzel. 

Irony but in the mythological terms the priestess claimed her to be a godly device, not just a Hand for the dynasty.






With Warden we have second oracle, a second pawn in the gods play. Also a second person that Hari couldn't predict, putting stops in his grand plan. What I couldn't guess was that the Invictus had gone through a mutiny and hence it had been abandoned.

Thing is Warden had felt the whole time that Invictus was a danger. Something she couldn't handle and the explanation on the bridge with hardwired people controlling the jumping and other things, the whole ship became a death trap ... to all of them. 

Funny thing is that we know that Warden is the only person that can take the Null field. Therefore making her the best candidate to survive the trip, if the machine accepts her jacking in without a surgery. 

I was surprised that it didn't happen. Does it mean she has a story shield?






Damn, no soul.   Man....



Great episode


----------



## ctg (Nov 12, 2021)

The length is starting to be consistent at around 55 minutes and the story-telling is much better. Imdb score is 8.8, interesting. I also noticed BSG, Caprica, Jessica Jones producer Jane Espenson on the credits as co-exec. In fact they have a lot of people involved into the project, including Asimov's family.



Spoiler: S01E09 - First Crisis



To be honest, the way Hari is portrayed in this is very different then what it was when I read the books at boy age. Back then he was a hero, but looking at the series he is definitely a villain. A mastermind behind the turmoil and as we've learned he's been playing the crisis game all on his own, with nobody knowing nothing about his influence in the events. Except Gall, of course, but she's disposed for next seven hundred years according to the computer. So whenever she gets back to civilisation it's going to be very different. 

Whenever that is nobody is going to care about lies and facts, because the time is different. 






Damn Lewis, that was some ballsy move. He might look dead but he's part of the machine now, for forever and again. Ain't no toilet breaks for him. No vacations, nothing. Just endless jumps.

The Warden claimed that she has no idea on how to get the behaviour back under the control, but the machine wasn't blinking lights. It was responding to her commands, giving her information and data on various things, making Invictus a working ship. 

In my mind it becomes Terminus guardian, with its engines sent down to planet and the vessel offering an orbital platform for the Foundation colony.

I loved how she managed to find a way out and jump to the privateer vessel, with no fear. Just a determination on getting back to her people. The love was a secondary thought. Luckily she didn't shoot him down. 

It surprised me that she thought Invictus as the guardian for the planet. The real twist is that she went down to planet, walked super close to the Vault and used Hari's box to reveal clearly a manmade thing hiding behind the levitating symbol. 






That is very cool looking and it's certainly ultra technology, but at the same time it looks a bit alien. It certainly could fool everyone as nobody had seen anything like it before. It surprised me that it could also take punishment from the pew-pew's and shrug it off like nothing had done before. 

Then they twisted the tale again by allowing Hari's clone to walk out from it as if he's a god.






Oh, Brother Dawn you're playing a dangerous game. We never see the bodyguards around him, but we most certainly know that most skilled are actively camouflaged. Still, I'm glad that he's smart enough of to con the system, but he's not wise enough to really see the darker side of the humanity.

What I don't know is that is his feeling because of the chemistry or because of his youth, but he certainly isn't blessed with the wisdom. That comes with the experience. Not that experience should come flushing down into the cutters of Trantor. But he acted smartly and had a boy like fascination on everything that was new to his eyes. 

I don't doubt that he will find a new life in the scar, and maybe it will better than being an emperor, a dictator locked in palace from rest of the world. If he survives the double cross, which is interesting, because his love was so convincing. It was as if she really wanted him to get out ... so that the resistance could get their guy inside. 

Man, what a twist. Maybe it is the only way for them to end the Dynasty, but when they're gone whose going to fill the power vacuum?

I was certain that he wasn't going to survive the meet with his doppelganger, but he did thanks to Brother Dusk and the invisible assassins. "Young, foolish and gullible." I have no better words, but it intrigues me did the others try similar things?



So, so many twists.


----------



## REBerg (Nov 14, 2021)

Spoiler



As I've always said: A Dawn has got to get up pretty early while Day's away to pull the wool over old Dusk's eyes.


----------



## BAYLOR (Nov 14, 2021)

I think it's cool that we've gotten   both *Foundation* and* Dune *.


----------



## Parson (Nov 14, 2021)

I've been steadily watching *Foundation* and I think what needs to emphasized is that this is a solid S.F. series. It is interesting, well constructed, and not predictable. But in keeping with the "not predictable" it owes the world to the *Foundation* story but not it's narrative. The narrative is very, very, other than the narrative in the book.

I'm happy to be watching it, and I will watch the next installment as well.


----------



## ctg (Nov 15, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> A Dawn has got to get up pretty early while Day's away to pull the wool over old Dusk's eyes.


I've read it hundred times, each time trying to get it, but I guess I'm too smart to really get it. But I have to say it is clever and it kind of plays into the narrative. It's just every time Day's in power, and that's like always, he's a supreme d1ck. So, here we are thinking that the boy's going to get it, but we really don't know what's in reserve, except a) the soulless man punishes the boy, because he's better than them ... or b) another twist that plays into Hari's game and it enables Dawn to take over the Dynasty, thus injecting his code into the line, while the history unravels a bit differently. 

I know they're not going to go mental Preacher style and introduce us to mythic stuff, but what's happening is pretty mythical in general. Especially with Hari's clone walking out from vault and the Warden becoming a Chosen One. 

There is a lot of stuff that is verging on the fantasy and the only way for us to know it's not is to remember the AC Clarke's golden words: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indisthinguisahble from magic." So, in those terms, what they're doing is pretty magical and when you wrap in the Soulless Man, what is happening is mythological.

We classify Asimov as one the "Big Three's" among Clark and Heinlein. Latter, which I haven't read at all for some reason. But overall he's known as a Grandmaster in Science Fiction. He was a fan first, like we all are, but you look at the stuff he wrote, and edited, there's fantasy. Not just hard SF.

So in those terms, what the Fruit Company is doing, is acceptable. It is a good story, epic is scale, somewhat grand in the way they are telling it, but they could go grander. We just don't know yet what's in the store, and how they going to reveal it. I just have a feeling that boy might get lucky and survive.


----------



## ctg (Nov 15, 2021)

Here's How Apple Brought Foundation's World and Cultures to Life
					

Apple's sci-fi odyssey has big ambitions and a big scope to go with it.




					gizmodo.com


----------



## ctg (Nov 19, 2021)

Impossible scene.

8.6 and almost an hour long season finale. Overall score for the series is standing at around 7.4, which is interesting for knowing how much resistance there has been along the airing. 



Spoiler: S01E10 - The Leap



You have to wonder where Hari is able to get access to all of the technology that is seemingly breaking the possible. Stuff that nobody else have known, and yet, it's all what is doing by being a supreme overlord of the Vault tech. None of the Foundation instruments were able to detect his transmission to Terminus. Yet, at the same time, it's all imperial technology. Some that might have been classified. But yet again, at the same time, Hari were able to access, maybe even get to built because of his status in the royal household. 

Should we start calling him Little Finger?

He pulled the story on rivals, put the blame on the Dynasty and everyone bought it hook, line and the sinker. He said that "The Invictus was part of the plan. It was one of the first models I tested. Where everyone else found chaos, I found a pattern."

In my mind that leads to the Gods theory and them having a firm hand on the evolution of the human species throughout time. Hari blew that apart by telling the people that he'd planned the Terminus Foundation to be part of the rebellion. And therefore he'd lied in the trials. 

Maybe we don't have to wait 700 years for the Gaal to arrive with the truth. Not that her arrival could be any sooner for Hari going in the brainwash mode as if he's the director of all things. A god. 

"I found patterns." If that is true then it wasn't set by him, but he is most certainly exploiting the opportunity like a pothead dictator. Thing is, he told the truth about the Dynasty and "one script" to the people, but strengthened them with the idea of rebellion, as an alteration to that "one script."

Clever Hari. Very cunning. What is the end result of this machination?

Equally clever Warden started seeing through his lies, as if she was holding Gaal's soul within her, being part of the pattern that Hari is exploiting to his advantage and rebelling against it, as if she part of the equalising force.






Man, the mess in the palace. I don't know what to say. It amazed me ... or rather not that the Soulless Man was grateful for Brother Dusk for handing the Dawn fiasco. It surprised me even more that the Soulless Man released Dusk, and then listened him whining endless how he was feeling trapped in the palace. 

Oh, the curse of a gilded gage, it is so terrible. I don't know how can you stand it?  

Thing is Soulless Man shed a tear, when Dusk revealed their misfortunes and flaws on living in the palace. It made me think that it influenced his decision on releasing the rebel lady to under his guard. The curious thing is that he ended up talking about the Dynasty legacy, and how she had robbed him part of the family, before he revealed the threat of consisting 1551 people on gardener's extended social orbit. 

That number is nothing, when you consider trillions living in the Imperium of Man, but on a personal level a big thing by making person to nothing. And then imprisoning them for rest of their lives. 

To be honest, it would be cheaper to put a bullet in her brain and be done with the threat. Not Dynasty, because nothing bad can happen to them, ever. 






It's good thing that Warden and her mum doesn't take Hari's BS kindly. She asked the right questions, even though she couldn't understand her being an avatar, but accepted that the visions are part of her being. She just doesn't know that her role is much different but she is the leader of the First Foundation.

I loved that Hugo took the leadership on Invictus, while following Hari's plan, because to be honest, it is a win for them to keep fighting the Imperium. To be the dead people at the heart of the rebellion, and at the same time being the opposing force to the Dynasty. 

The biggest twist is that Mum took Gaal's egg and made Warden, thus fulfilling the part of the prophesy of Gaal being part of the equation. The balancing factor. 

It's just this all go timey-wimey with her hunt for Gaal's pod. What happens to her when Gaal wakes up? 

I have to confess, I shed a tear when she flew off, leaving behind the boyfriend. It brought me so many memories.






Court of Brothers vs Alien Brother. Man, what a setup. I hope you noticed that it was just them and the droid. Nobody else were allowed in the sin. Dusk were murderous, wanting blood, just like he was when he ordered death to the worlds. 

The Soulless Man however were a bit kinder. He saw them as unity, as one family, flaws and all. But he also saw the flaw in the legacy, by ordering Dusk to become new Day ... until Demezerel took away the opportunity to change the history. 

Maybe the biggest twist is that it was revealed that the genetic code had been altered in all of them. But how is that Day doesn't have a soul?






Computer, what happened to the 700 years? How could it have been so wrong? 

Warden rolled hard, when she planted her ship and went to sleep for over hundred years on a hunch. How could she have known?


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## zeph (Nov 20, 2021)

Spoiler: wtf



Am I alone in feeling seriously WTF about this Salvor Hardin is Gaal Dornick's daughter? So cringe and unnecessary. Despite his later anthroposophical leanings (Gaia etc.) Asimov was never sentimental or occult/mystical. This is exactly that.


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## ctg (Nov 20, 2021)

Spoiler






zeph said:


> Am I alone in feeling seriously WTF about this Salvor Hardin is Gaal Dornick's daughter? So cringe and unnecessary. Despite his later anthroposophical leanings (Gaia etc.) Asimov was never sentimental or occult/mystical. This is exactly that.


No, you're not alone. It is a serious WTF moment, but you also have to assume that the change got a blessing from the family. In story wise it makes sense, but it also adds that mystical element that explains why she's extraordinary.


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## REBerg (Nov 20, 2021)

I must say, the first season has laid a solid foundation for the series. Sorry, couldn't resist.


Spoiler



I had suspected that Demerzel, the android, is the real power in the Empire. When she broke the tie vote between Dusk and Day over the value of Dawn, by snapping Dawn's neck while comforting him, my suspicions were strengthened.
Demerzel has been the constant factor throughout the succession of Cleon clones, guiding them down the programmed path. As an android, she has no issue with maintaining genetic purity. Her religious beliefs, however, seem to be conflicting with her imperial directive, creating enough to stress to make her rip her own face off. Yikes!
I'm no genetic expert, but wouldn't environmentally induced elements mutate DNA over extended generations, even among clones? With both Dawn and Day exhibiting variations from Cleon I, the rebels may not be behind the mutations.
I hope that the next season features more Foundation and less Empire


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## ctg (Nov 20, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I'm no genetic expert, but wouldn't environmentally induced elements mutate DNA over extended generations, even among clones? With both Dawn and Day exhibiting variations from Cleon I, the rebels may not be behind the mutations.



I'm not an expert either, but from what we know the mutations come all the way to the end as you age. And there is some speculation for why you shouldn't make babies at late age. But their code came from the Cleon I with some modifications.

As you say, Demez is the number one suspect behind the power, but as she told us (the viewers) she came to faith a long time ago, when she made the journey. All we know is that in the past they had Robot Wars, but that would include Ai's. They claim that she's the last one, chosen to serve the Dynasty and it has been told that she does it through her programming.

In that programming is also the laws that says to not harm people, expect she has acted as the executioner more than twice. I think she was the vessel that passed the Dusk's command to the grand fleet to bombard those two worlds. But ...

... is she conveniently also the heart of the rebellion, because she must have known those changes in the DNA. Is that plausible?  That she is the vessel that had access, knowledge and the opportunity to alter the Source DNA? Or did Cleon I made sure that his clones were all a bit different?


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## Elckerlyc (Nov 20, 2021)

Spoiler



Well, I kept having mixed feelings about this series right until the end. Not so much because of the level of faithfulness to the books, either high or low. Any adaptation for a different medium is likely to be adapted to some level. As along as it is done well (and it isn't Dune) it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I am not a purist at heart.
But in this case I don't feel it was done well. The writing seemed more aimed to dazzle the viewer with grand views, unexpected and even illogical twists and cruelties by Empire rule than to be consistent with logically, character driven plot turns. Too often I had responses like "Huh?", "Nonsensical" or "Can I go play outside now?"
At some level it was interesting enough to keep watching, but the level of enjoying it was barely above mediocre.
The notion of psychohistory is weird enough to be closer to magic than science. That's fine, but it is up to the writers to tell the story in such a way it becomes acceptable. A shame than that this veers off to the mystical side of things.


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## zeph (Nov 21, 2021)

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're not alone. It is a serious WTF moment, but you also have to assume that the change got a blessing from the family. In story wise it makes sense, but it also adds that mystical element that explains why she's extraordinary.





Spoiler






Elckerlyc said:


> A shame than that this veers off to the mystical side of things.



And this is a deviation from the original that I find particularly hard to stomach. Asimov's Salvor Hardin was a shrewd man with his feet firmly planted in reality. No sentimental wishwash, no hereditary special gifts, no visions. Asimov left the mystical side of things to the Second Foundation, the First Foundation wasn't supposed to have any knowledge of it, if Psychohistory was to work.

This just craps all over the original vision, trading reason and logic for Star Wars-like inter-generational family affairs. It's a soap opera in space. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but definitely antithetical to everything Asimov embodied.


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## Droflet (Nov 21, 2021)

I had to see it, didn't I?  Although I read the book that was back in the Cretaceous period so I don't remember much. This is very well produced with good casting and so on. But it's a story that spans a massive period of time, if my memory is holding up, and that will always present difficulties. I've got two more episodes to see. So far, so good.


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## ctg (Nov 21, 2021)

Interesting information and somewhat spoilerific stuff. So watch it with a thought after you have finished the finale.


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## Av Demeisen (Nov 21, 2021)

ctg said:


> Interesting information and somewhat spoilerific stuff. So watch it with a thought after you have finished the finale.


I like spoilers for shows I am not all that invested in.


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## ctg (Nov 21, 2021)

Av Demeisen said:


> I like spoilers for shows I am not all that invested in.


weird


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## ctg (Nov 22, 2021)

*TVLINE | With the show already renewed for Season 2, where do you think they go from here?*
I know where it goes from here because we’ve already started work on Season 2, so I don’t want to spoil it too much! But I will say that these two characters are complete strangers and we will get to dive into how they navigate this new relationship, as well as the world around them bringing new challenges.


Spoiler



*TVLINE | What do you think was going through Salvor’s mind when she realized that Gaal had found her?*
I definitely think she feels relief and a sense of awe when seeing Gaal. It’s been a long time coming, finally finding the missing piece in her life. The fact that Gaal is even in front of her is astounding. What are the chances that she would land in the exact right place? That Salvor would be discovered and woken up by the very person she is in search of? Though when it comes to Salvor, we cannot forget that she’s an abnormally lucky woman. Salvor is thanking her lucky stars, for sure!

*TVLINE | She left everything she knew behind to find Gaal, so how do you think that will affect her moving forward?*
I think it might help them connect. They both have traveled years into the future, and for all they know, everything they knew has been left behind. They, potentially, only have each other left. It’s a profound emotion to contemplate, but it is something that requires time to process. Whether or not they have the luxury of time is another question entirely.

*TVLINE | Knowing that she’s a century into the future, do you think she’d want to return to Terminus and see what happened to her people?*
Being the Warden of Terminus is in Salvor’s blood. Her father, Abbas, was warden-turned-mayor. I think that Salvor always has Terminus and the people of the Foundation on her mind. As demonstrated in Season 1, she’ll go to any lengths to protect these people so I don’t think that will stop just because she’s far away. I do think she would want to discover the fate of the world she once knew and loved. I think we all would.











						Foundation Finale: Leah Harvey Breaks Down That 'Satisfying' Surprise Ending, Shares Their Season 2 Wish List
					

Warning: This post contains spoilers from Foundation’s Season 1 finale. Salvor took a leap of faith in Foundation’s Season 1 finale and found herself face-to-face with exactly who’d been searching …




					tvline.com


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## ctg (Nov 29, 2021)

> When showrunner David S. Goyer took on the monumental task of adapting Isaac Asimov's hugely influential _Foundation_ series of science fiction novels for Apple TV+, he knew it would not be a straightforward matter. As I've written previously, the author himself admitted that he wrote strictly for the printed page, and he always refused invitations to adapt his work for film or TV.
> 
> But Asimov was more than happy to let others adapt his work to a new medium, and he was wise enough to expect that there would—and should—be significant departures from the print version. In doing so, Goyer had to strike a balance between respecting Asimov's sweeping visionary ideas without lapsing into slavish reverence and over-pontification. To my mind, he did it beautifully, producing more of a remix than a straight adaptation that is compelling and powerful in its own right.
> 
> ...











						How Foundation preserved Asimov’s big ideas while bringing the story to vivid life
					

Ars chats with showrunner David S. Goyer and science adviser Kevin Hand.




					arstechnica.com
				






> As great as the original Asimov books are, from a character standpoint, they're relatively weak. David and his team had to figure out how to maintain character consistency, as well as consistency of scenes associate with those characters.



Interesting


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## ctg (Nov 29, 2021)

> To quote Blade Runner, Demerzel is, in some ways, More human than human. The character must be one of the most difficult of Birn's career? "What better for an actor than an endless number of questions to play with," Birn laughs. "I don't remember seeing a character like Demerzel before. Android is a mother, partner, advisor, teacher and hospice nurse for the fairies. Every time a new clone baby is born, Demerzel knows he sees this death, too. Android has its programming that is forced to follow, but he has lived for millennia. Experiences and encounters force-leave traces on the machine, whatever changes in him, be it soul, spirit or something else.











						Haastattelu | Laura Birn nousi Foundation-scifi-sarjan fanisuosikiksi - "En muista nähneeni tällaista hahmoa aiemmin" - Muropaketti.com
					

Laura Birn esittää yhtä päähenkilöistä Isaac Asimovin Säätiö-tieteisklassikoihin perustuvassa tv-sarjassa. Foundationista suunnitellaan kahdeksan vuoden mittaista kokonaisuutta. Toisen kauden ku…




					muropaketti.com
				





> Birn doesn't naturally read what's written about her on online forums and social media platforms, and didn't know Demerzel was a fan favorite. Birn's character, and especially her acting work, is praised on the series' Reddit pages, for example. Despite the changes made to the character, Demerzel seems to be digging everyone. Both those who like the series and perhaps only those who watch it out of a sense of duty are convinced by the superfans of the books. For non-Finnish viewers, Birn seems to have stopped in the public eye almost out of nowhere. "Fun and wonderful to hear. I don't follow what's written about me, I want to protect myself from the unpredictability of the Internet."





> Most of the people don't hear Finnish slang in Demerzel's speech if you don't know how to look for it. Naturally, our monotonic pronunciation is probably a great starting point for developing a speech style for a robot? "Finnish is not the most melodic language in the world. I built Demerzel's own voice, but of course it's possible that my Finnishness can be heard from that background."


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## Vince W (Nov 29, 2021)

Finally got around to watching episode 4. I'm still not that impressed overall. It seems we're spending too much time on the Emperor and not enough on Terminus. That and this series has developed a serious case of wokeness with the usual trappings and needless digs. Four episodes in and I still don't care about any of the characters. And now there's magic.

I'll probably finish out the series because I want to like it but I doubt I will in the end.


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## ctg (Nov 29, 2021)

Just give it time, they adapted the story for the modern audience. At the end it turns out to be a pretty good one.


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## ctg (Jan 24, 2022)

> In the first episode of the _Foundation_ series on Apple TV, we see a terrorist try to destroy the space elevator used by the Galactic Empire. This seems like a great chance to talk about the physics of space elevators and to consider what would happen if one exploded. (Hint: It wouldn't be good.)











						What happens if a space elevator breaks
					

You don’t want to be under one if the cable snaps.




					arstechnica.com
				






> So, what's going on? Notice that the lower part of the cable just falls to Earth and probably causes some severe destruction. In this model, it wraps about a third of the way around the equator, even though its full length would almost make it all the way around the Earth, which has a circumference of 40,000 kilometers.
> 
> But some of the parts of the cable might not even hit the surface. If the pieces start high enough, their velocity will increase as they get closer to the surface. It's possible that the pieces will speed up enough to put them in a non-circular orbit around the Earth. If you are living on the equator, that's a good thing. Better to have that debris in space than falling on your head, right?
> 
> ...


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## ctg (Feb 2, 2022)

> . Here are the actors, characters, and quick bios, all courtesy of Apple TV+:
> 
> *Dimitri Leonidas* as *Hober Mallow:* “A master trader with a sarcastic personality and questionable morals, who is summoned against his will to serve a higher, selfless cause.”
> *Ben Daniels *as* Bel Roise:* “The last great general of the Superliminal Fleet and would-be conqueror of the Foundation. Bel is noble to a fault, but his fealty to the Galactic Empire is waning.”
> ...











						Foundation Adds 10 Characters for Season 2, Most Entirely New
					

Remind me, why are we calling Apple TV+'s adaptation of the Isaac Asimov novels Foundation again?




					gizmodo.com


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## LordOfWizards (Oct 10, 2022)

We got free Apple TV+ from T-mobile, and guess what they have? The Foundation series - Issac Asimov. And it's a series. So far I'm enjoying it, and it follows the book pretty well. Almost too well because of all the ceremony and such kind of slows it down. Anyone found this yet?


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## Elckerlyc (Oct 10, 2022)

LordOfWizards said:


> We got free Apple TV+ from T-mobile, and guess what they have? The Foundation series - Issac Asimov. And it's a series. So far I'm enjoying it, and it follows the book pretty well. Almost too well because of all the ceremony and such kind of slows it down. Anyone found this yet?


Sure did...
Foundation


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## BAYLOR (Oct 10, 2022)

LordOfWizards said:


> We got free Apple TV+ from T-mobile, and guess what they have? The Foundation series - Issac Asimov. And it's a series. So far I'm enjoying it, and it follows the book pretty well. Almost too well because of all the ceremony and such kind of slows it down. Anyone found this yet?



What I like is we have *Foundation * series and* Dune* as feature film both at the same time.

Now if only we can get someone to do *Rendezvous with Rama.*


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## LordOfWizards (Oct 10, 2022)

Well, It's here now. I'm enjoying it so far. It is a bit slow due to ceremony (and too many love scenes!   )

I would say more but I don't want to be known as the spoiler.


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## Vince W (Oct 10, 2022)

LordOfWizards said:


> We got free Apple TV+ from T-mobile, and guess what they have? The Foundation series - Issac Asimov. And it's a series. So far I'm enjoying it, and it follows the book pretty well. Almost too well because of all the ceremony and such kind of slows it down. Anyone found this yet?


Follows the books? I don’t think so. I found it to be pretty poor effort and I still haven’t finished the series. The Foundation, as Asimov wrote it, was far more capable than the Apple version and relied less on magic.


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## Elckerlyc (Oct 10, 2022)

LordOfWizards said:


> Well, It's here now. I'm enjoying it so far. It is a bit slow due to ceremony (and too many love scenes!   )
> 
> I would say more but I don't want to be known as the spoiler.


Well, of course you're totally free to ignore my pointer to the other thread about this series. But rest assured, there isn't much left to spoil.


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## Vince W (Oct 10, 2022)

BAYLOR said:


> What I like is we have *Foundation * series and* Dune* as feature film both at the same time.
> 
> Now if only we can get someone to do *Rendezvous with Rama.*


I found both *Foundation *and *Dune* to be disappointing. I would love to see *Rendezvous With Rama* adapted, but at this point I would beg, on blended knee, Ron Howard to do it.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 10, 2022)

Vince W said:


> I found both *Foundation *and *Dune* to be disappointing. I would love to see *Rendezvous With Rama* adapted, but at this point I would beg, on blended knee, Ron Howard to do it.



Yes  he would be a good choice.    My second  choice is Christopher  Nolan  and Third  Alex Proyas.


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## ctg (Jan 5, 2023)




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## Parson (Jan 5, 2023)

I may have to look at season one a bit to refresh my memory. So much of this trailer seems only half familiar.


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