# Revenge of the Sith - A Review/Opinion



## Raven (May 31, 2005)

Well, I've had a little time to absorb this and debate it, and here is my considered opinion of the last of the _Star Wars_ films - ever.

It's the worst of the _Star Wars_ films - ever.

Now, before we begin to dissect the _why _of this, I should establish the scale by which I'm judging. You see, I didn't think _The Phantom Menace_ and _Attack of the Clones_ were that bad. Sure, they had terrible acting, worse direction, too much CGI, atrocious dialogue and silly ideas (midichlorians?). Sure, _Menace_ featured an entire race of thinly-disguised racial stereotypes that someone really, really should have told George Lucas were NOT FUNNY, whatever he might have thought. 

But if these things had been corrected... the first two films would have been pretty average sci-fi fare, a bit cheesy perhaps, not as good as the original trilogy - but they were not exactly high art anyway, just a good romp.

Crucially, the central stories of the first two films stood up. And this is the problem with _Sith._ It stands or falls entirely on the central story, Anakin's descent to the Dark Side. All the rest - bad dialogue, continuity problems, stilted direction - were side issues. 

And it is that central story that Lucas screws up. 

The first problem is that he overcomplicates it. Ever since Obi-Wan first mentioned Vader almost thirty years ago, it has been clear: Vader was seduced to the Dark Side by his arrogance, his impatience, his desire for power, and his impetuous and emotional nature. He went to the Dark Side because it was the easy path. 

This is a fine, simple and strong storyline, and one that Lucas has been building up through the prequels. 

So why on earth he felt the need to introduce not one but two other motivations for Anakin's fall, I don't understand. Particularly as these rather work against the established motivation.

First, we have the 'moral relativism' motivation - summed up in Palpatine's claim that 'the Jedi point of view is not the only valid one', and bolstered in Anakin's eyes by the Jedi's moves against Palpatine. 

This is, I will concede, a perfectly valid plotline. Handled correctly, it could have worked as part of the reason why Anakin fell. But Lucas just doesn't seem to understand moral relativism at all. 

The culmination of this plotline shows this clearly. Anakin declares to Obi-Wan in ringing tones that 'from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!' Which is all fine and well, Ani, but you have _just slaughtered a whole room full of children!_ 

This rather tends to undermine the claim that the Sith are really the good guys, not to mention making Anakin's claim sound absurd. That slaughter really works in the context of establishing how low Anakin will go in his pursuit of power: but it totally destroys the 'moral relativism' plotline. Anakin simply cannot seriously claim the Jedi are the bad guys after all the things he and Sidious have done. Nonsense.

In any case, _Star Wars_ is not really suited to this kind of moral debate. I mean, the Sith are so bad, they have evil _names_. We know who the bad guys are, because they helpfully call themselves things like 'Darth Maul' and 'Darth Plagueis'. It is a little difficult to understand how Anakin concludes a guy who chooses the name 'Darth Sidious' is basically just misunderstood. 

The third plotline, of course, is made central to the film: Anakin's attempts to save Padme. 

Strangely, then, it's actually dealt with rather sketchily. Anakin has two, short, dreams of Padme's death and is totally convinced that she will die. One brief conversation with Palpatine and he is totally convinced Palpatine is the only person who can save her.Talk about establishing your premises.  

Worse, though, this plotline undermines everything we thought we knew about Vader. If his descent to the Dark Side was not a matter of arrogance after all, but (in a bizarre way) an altruistic attempt to save his wife and children - well, I find it hard to reconcile this basically nice but misguided guy with the Darth Vader of eps. IV-VI. 

And when this plotline clashes with the basic plot, of Anakin/Vader's arrogance, it really sticks out like a sore thumb. It looks like an add-on.

For example, Anakin joins Palpatine to find out how to save Padme. Palpatine then tells him 'I don't actually know how, but together I'm sure we can find out, y'know, sometime'. Anakin's reaction is kind of, 'oh, well then, whatever'.

He then sacrifices everything to save Padme - but then attacks her when she refuses to join him. He gives up even his humanity in the end to save her - then accepts Palpatine's word that she's dead, doesn't even bother to inquire after the baby she was carrying, and gets on with being a Sith Lord for the next twenty years. 

I mean, if you had sacrificed everything you believed in for the woman you loved, and then someone told you she'd died anyway: would you a) kill yourself in despair? b) kill Palpatine in a rage? or c) scream 'NOOOO!', then get on with building a Death Star?

These two extra plotlines add nothing, and confuse and fatally undermine the tragedy of Vader. 

All three plotlines collide - and collapse - in the scene where Anakin 'rescues' Palpatine from Mace Windu. First, Anakin is shocked that Mace is going to summarily execute Palpatine. But this is (to say the least) a bit hypocritical, as Anakin did the same thing to Dooku at Palpatine's urging. Moral relativism collapses. 

Then, he intervenes, and Windu goes out the window - because Anakin needs Palpatine alive. But his reaction is not one of having done so only out of distasteful necessity - he immediately pledges his loyalty to Palpatine as a Sith Apprentice! This tends to undermine the arrogance also: there is no trace of impatience, anger, arrogance or power-lust in Anakin's submission to the Dark Side. His final submission is, instead, meek and timid. And unsatisfactory on many levels.

This, then, is the central problem of the film. Others it has in plenty: risible dialogue, bad performances, bad effects, and pointless asides. R2 destroying two battle-droids, battle-droid dialogue, the pointless inclusion of Chewbacca, the decision to wipe 3PO's mind but not R2's (so R2 presumably knew all along who Vader was and who Luke and Leia were, but never told anyone?) But these are nitpicks, and there are good things to balance them - the 'Order 66' scene, or the final battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin. 

But it is the failure of the central plotline that makes this film an unsalvageable mess. No-one will be re-editing this to make a better film, a la _The Phantom Edit:_ it is rotten to the core. There is nothing to save.

I wanted to like this film, I wanted to forgive its flaws: but they run too deep.


----------



## ravenus (May 31, 2005)

I haven't seen the Sith film but going by what I've heard from other quarters the plot line runs as you say and therefore your opinion is certainly a most valid criticism. What I'd also consider missing in the new series is the entire sense of adventure and fun that was present in the previous series (although I contend that they have been ridiculously glorified by fanboys who seem to regard them as a 'way of life' or some such crap)


----------



## Neon (May 31, 2005)

Very well spoken Raven.  For face value and action I enjoyed this film as a movie goer.  But more so than anything, I too was distraught by how Anakin turned over to the dark side.  He was quickly and easily swayed and, as you said, many of his viewpoints/reasons were contradictory.  But again, kudos to your review.


----------



## Brian G Turner (Jun 1, 2005)

I've been trying to avoid reading anything on the new film - but I did stop to read this, and it seems to simply confirm what seemed to have been developing within the prequels in general. So it sounds pretty believable and fair.


----------



## Culhwch (Jun 1, 2005)

Spot on, Raven. Brilliant summation. Though I will contend with the 'Order 66' scene - not only a stupid name (Order 66? Come on, might as well have been 'Order Kill All Jedi'), it wasn't set up in this movie or, as far as I can remember, in Clones (though admittedly only saw it once, when it first came out, so I could be wrong), and the culling of the Jedi was far too short. He dies, she dies, tentacle-man dies, show's over... I had always pictured the end of the Jedi as more of a prolonged, gradual hunting down by specialist extermination squads, not a bunch of Kiwi clone troopers shooting them in the back....


----------



## kaneda (Jun 3, 2005)

An excellent opinion raven and one that Ive been trying to explain to my friends (and failing to do so). Think I'll just email them your post. 

The film does have fundamental flaws in relation to the original films that Lucas obviously didn't think about (e.g. padame dies at the end of the film, so how can leia in return of the jedi discuss with luke about how she does rememeber her mother? Even if she's jus remembering what people have told her about padame, the fact that she says "she died when i was very little" suggests that she spent some time with padame instead of just being handed over to obi wan).

Vader's turn to the darth side seemed too simplistic, and i was actually confused in the cinema (considering that i was laughing hard at palpatines face melting, and that voice of his that came from out of nowhere <you will now be *huge breathy gasp* darth vader>). I can't understand how lucas could have made anakins transition from the jedi to the dark side so easy? I'm going to see it again next week (and this time I'm going to try not to laugh too much at that scene). 

But saying all that, combined with ravens criticisms, i dont agree that it was the worst film out of the lot. The fact that i was actually able to sit through this film without getting bored, that i wasnt thinking ffs throughout it, AND the fact that i got excited with the fight between anakin and obi wan (which has been the whole point of these films) says that they're not that bad, and im actually looking forward to seeing the film again.

On a final note, another thing i was confused about was yoda. He runs away to the degoba (or however you spell it) because he's failed? That confused me. 

Essentially the main problem with all these films was that they were written by george lucas, the man cannot write and the man does not think ideas though. He has a beginning concept, an end concept and he doesn't think about what has to go in the middle. Instead he creates things as he goes along and hopes that people wont notice them. 

Heres betting that at some point he makes films about what happens after return of the jedi, i.e. leia and han have a son the son has the force strong blah blah blah


----------



## Neon (Jun 3, 2005)

Kaneda: I too didn't like the way Yoda's failure is what drove him into the years long exile.  I thought that was a way too simplistic explanation.  But like you said, I was never bored and was entertained throughout the whole movie.  Nor did I think it was the worst movie in the bunch.


----------



## Jstotlar (Jun 3, 2005)

I completely agree, the flaws in this film were atrocious. However, I enjoyed watching it, which is good enough for me. That being said onto the major critiques. As a former fan boy (and i was pretty hardcore) I think the one comment that really hit home with me made here was that the films lacked "A sense of adventure" 

 Lucas lost track of what really made them feel special. And more importantly why people connected to them so much. The beautiful thing about fantasy and sci fi is things happen that could never concievably happen in this universe; at least not in our lifetimes. And lucas forgot how to create that magic. The magic that makes people wish they could be there. The magic that makes you say, "Wow, if I were in this universe, who would I be? What would I do? What adventures would I go on?"  I think Lucas thought that since these are prequels any innovation in the world is something that he couldn't have, nothing new could exist beyond the scope of the three original films. He had to bring in boba fetts daddy i hopes Jango could be as cool as boba. But no. he had to include innumerable racial atrocities in the name of humor. Basically he lost touch with his own Universe.

I was also sorely dissapointed with the "Order 66" sequence. Yes order 66 is a lame name, and Lucas might as well have called it order 666, sith are satanists. As a child, the jedi extermination was one of the parts of the history that most intrigued me. I imagined a black cloaked anakin hunting down the jedi on all kinds of planets and locales and having epic duels with them. Honestly, what difference does it make if Anakin was with Sidious or not, Lucas made it obvious none of the Jedi's could even hold there own against a small platton of Stormtroopers (and boy, did they forget how to aim for the sequels or what?) And the jedi deaths seemed rather, well for lack of a better word, lame. 

I mean seriously, Padme's death is perhaps the lamest of the lame. "She has lost the will to live." This completely destorys what is at the root of Padme's character. Yes she loves Anakin. Yes she was betrayed by Anakin, but regaurdless, the root of her character is that she is a strong woman. She stands up for herself. And someone like that wouldn't give up easily like that. Especially with a baby (or two) on the way. Someone like Padme would choose to go on and live life and try to undo the wrongs the sith have done. Not keel over and orphan her babies.


I completely agree with Raven in everything he said. There are major continutiy issues with the sequels. This is how I think it went down in Lucas' head. "Well, I already had these prequels in my head, but since this is a new generation, I think i'll bastardize my old movies and add in a bunch of filler stuff so I can add in these different conflicts and hope people don't notice."
Anakin succumbs way too quickly as others have noted so I won't comment on that. Raven nailed the reasons why it is awkward.  The movie doesn't deserve it's title, as there is no Revenge to be had, only a half hearted attempt at completing this trilogy. I enjoyed it the most of the three prequels, simply as an entertaining movie experience, which, alone, it is. In the big picture though, It seems like Lucas, much like Anakin, fell to the dark side. He took the easy way out.


----------



## Brian G Turner (Jun 3, 2005)

Jstotlar said:
			
		

> Lucas lost track of what really made them feel special.


 
Also, by all accounts, the criticism he received from crew that helped hone Star Wars, was completely absent for the prequels. Perhaps even replaced by something of a misplaced sycophantic awe.


----------



## Leto (Jun 3, 2005)

Or simplye the fact that episods 5 & 6 were directed by others. The man has talent but can't multitask on this scale, and certainly can't direct newbies..


----------



## Stalker (Jun 6, 2005)

Well, Gerorge Lucas appeared to be a bad bridgebuilder. That bridge to put together all lines of the plot going from _The Phantom Menace_ to _A New Hope_ proved to be very weak and liable to ruin. Starting from the 2nd Episode, I've grown even more disappointed.


----------



## garreth Jacks (Jun 6, 2005)

I said:
			
		

> Also, by all accounts, the criticism he received from crew that helped hone Star Wars, was completely absent for the prequels. Perhaps even replaced by something of a misplaced sycophantic awe.


 

That is because the first two films he did A new hope and The Empire strikes back had funding for them and consequently was not aloud to direct the film entity, people altered it slightly because they where funding it and this made the films better. After that he direct all the other films and they had the absent of other peoples views in them


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 6, 2005)

Author Jeff VanderMeer was less than pleased with the movie, too. He writes a delightfuly damning review, too: http://vanderworld.blogspot.com/2005/06/star-wars-3-amazingly-bad-movie.html


----------



## Raven (Jun 6, 2005)

kaneda, neon: I have to say, I was not entertained by 'Sith'. I found parts of it unbearably tedious. I was munching popcorn and wondering what to do about dinner during the much-hyped opening action scene. (But I admit, it took me a little longer to realise I was watching not just a mediocre film, but a really bad one. Up until Padme, or rather the grotesque sketch of her that Lucas used instead, appeared.) 

There was no tension to it. The same held for the Grievous/Obi-Wan chase scene, though the actual fighting was decent, and many of the other action sequences, which are supposed to be the heart of the film.

knivesout: love that review. So right in so many ways.

I genuinely think that this is one of those films whose critical reputation will decline. The more you watch it the more you'll see the problems, until it will be impossible to believe that people actually gave this good reviews.


----------



## DanielFullard (Jun 6, 2005)

Being a huge Star Wars fan I was there for there for the first showing and I left 2 and a half hours later with the biggest grin on my face. Superb stuff. I have since been back 3 times and each time I have been througholly entertained and have enjoyed every moment of a wonderous film.


Admittedly it doesnt come close to ANH or ESB but its challeneging ROTJ fot that 3rd place on my list


----------



## WarlikeMenelaos (Jun 7, 2005)

I tried watching it again and had to put if off after twenty minutes, It is terrible...I hate the film, it totally ruins (along with Ep. 1 and 2) the characters of Anakin and Palpatine.

I put on the last eight minutes though (from the point Vader's mask is put on till the end) and I must admit for that time it felt like Star Wars.

Well done Lucas! You've spent millions, made billions and wasted so many people's time, convinced me you're a hack and a pathetic writer these days....but you've produced an amazing eight minute prologue to A New Hope.

Oh and I can't see why people think this can be on ROTJ's level if not above it, to me it was a fitting end to the trilogy. The scenes with the Emperor/Luke/Vader were amazing although you do have to ignore the prequel trilogy for Leia's references to her mother and to have sympathy for Vader.

Original Trilogy Anakin Skywalker - Sad tragic character who underestimated the power of the Emperor, seduced by the darkside and fell

Prequel Trilogy Anakin Skywalker - Moody, greedy, whiney, annoying, monotone, bland and uninteresting....given everything on a silver platter yet still falls to the darkside.

I hate you George Lucas! You've ruined an amazing saga just for money, episodes 1-3 never needed to be told cause it was all explained in episodes 4-6!

Out of 10......2 (those last eight minutes entertained me in an otherwise terrible film)


----------



## The Master™ (Jun 9, 2005)

I can not believe I just wasted £5 on the pile of fetid dingoes kidneys!!! Never before have I yawned so much at a movie!!!

So many glaringly obvious continuity errors... And let's not forget the need to point out the bleeding obvious!!! How DID Leia remember her mother??? She suddenly have a photographic memory, and Luke didn't??? I thought that at least Padme might have gone to Alderaan with Sentator Bail Organa and wasted away pining for Anakin...

And what is this crap about Yoda teaching Obi Wan to contact Qui Gon??? HUH??? I thought that Yoda told Anakin that love and the like lead to the dark side and there he is teaching stuff because Obi Wan is still missing his former Master??? DAMN WEIRD IF YOU ASK ME!!! Or has that to do with the return of the "spirits" in the first three movies???

What was the thing with the Midiclorians??? Wouldn't it have been better to leave well enough alone in the first movie???

Liked all the stuff to do with Senator Palpatine/The Emperor!!! Some cool stuff...

Was there a need for the three beheadings and three amputation of hands??? Little excessive for a 12A film!!! And the killing of the younglings???? Jeez, George, gone on a rampage in a school recently??? 

None of the "_UNHOLY TRILOGY_" can touch the "_HOLY TRILOGY_"!!!

Has to be:
1) Empire Strikes Back
2) Return of the Jedi
3) A New Hope
4) CLONE WARS (Cartoon)
5) Attack of the Clones
6) Revenge of the Sith
7) Phantom Menace


----------



## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

And where do you put the EWOKS movie and Cartoon serie, the Droids  cartoon and the Starwars Holiday Special ?


----------



## The Master™ (Jun 10, 2005)

Haven't seen any of them, so I guess, NO WHERE!!!


----------



## Alia (Jun 10, 2005)

Your not missing much Master! And don't worry about being no where, because for someone who has seen them, they aren't anywhere important.


----------



## The Master™ (Jun 10, 2005)

I do worry about missing things, just not them!!!


----------



## Animaiden (Jun 17, 2005)

I saw it and I liked it.  I'm not a Star Wars fanatic, but I did find many holes in  the story.  Lucas could have done a better job on Anakin's transfer from light to dark( I think it was just a little too quick and for too superficial reasons).  despite the holes I enjoyed it.


----------



## Calis (Jun 17, 2005)

RoTS is my 2nd favourite Star Wars. I loved it.


----------



## kaneda (Jul 3, 2005)

you for real caloodle??? you liked it that much??? whats your order of the 6?


----------



## Calis (Jul 3, 2005)

hmm tough.

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Phantom Menace.

That being said I liked Phantom Menace.


----------



## kaneda (Jul 3, 2005)

Calis said:
			
		

> That being said I liked Phantom Menace.


----------



## Calis (Jul 3, 2005)

I go in and watch a movie, I dont analysese acting or small plot holes.

I go in and enjoy it, I dont care about the rest.


----------



## orionsixwings (Jul 3, 2005)

WOAH!  Okay, my opinion...dun-dun-dun-duuuunnnnnn!

I watched that film as a fan - I was greatly disappointed with Phantom, a bit okay with Attack of the Clones, but this one was really a bummer.  The Jedi Purge was quite moving, but the transition of Anakin into the Dark Side seemed a bit "forced" if you ask me.  There's got to be more drama...more intrigue.  But no, they pump it in like a 'quickie'--you get there but it's too fast to enjoy it.

I've always known Lucas to be crappy about dialogues--here he uses too many cliche to make the lines work a bit better.  Mace's death was not as spectacular as I'd hoped it'll be---and when Darth Vader finally did his signature breathing, I wanted to gasp---'he's baaack!' --- but couldn't cause the previous scenes were too crammed in that the climax I expected to be breathtaking turned out to be a flat dud -- kaploosh!--


----------



## longplay (Jul 4, 2005)

My thoughts on Ep III: http://www.ascreennearyou.co.uk/2005/06/01/episode-iii-2/


----------



## nemogbr (Jul 22, 2005)

The "Order66" Killing all Jedi did strike me as tragic.

Understandable when these guys have died saving their own Jedi, but programming destroyed this loyalty

"Et tu Brute" squared or a whole army of Manchurian Candidates?

Anakin betraying the Jedi was forced, although we do have episodes when he allowed his passion to rule him: massacre of the sand people and kiling Count Dooku.
Not all the Jedi would have succumbed to the Clone Troopers so hunting the other Jedi is another story between Revenge of the Sith and a New Hope.

I'll have to give him some benefit of doubt. 

I did think that Padme ends up in Alderaan with Senator Organa. Dying from a broken heart after naming her children?..sheeesh


----------



## Brian G Turner (Jul 22, 2005)

It's hard not to see a generation gap at work here, with the younger audience being more forgiving, whilst the older generation seemed to have a greater sense of expectation with regards to the original works.


----------



## Monty Scott (Jul 22, 2005)

I enjoyed the film, but I also agree with the many criticisms stated in this thread. I felt Annakins descent into the dark side was mishandled and happened too quick. He is supposed to be angry and powermad, but I saw a weak minded, confused man, not the intelligent, yet impatient and impulsive Annakin becoming Lord Vader.
The end of the Jedi was also mishandled as I too felt their end would have been much more difficult and time consuming.
Too many loose ends and inconsistancies.
Overall, I enjoyed it with the fight between Obi-Wan and Annakin being one of the highlights.


----------



## steve12553 (May 21, 2006)

Sorry to dredge up old wounds but I ran across this thread and have to disagree with a lot of these criticisms. I don't think _Revenge of the Sith_ should have been made better, I think it should not have been made. A lot of the strength of the first three movies was that it had a wonderful backstory that was revealed a little at a time. "Darth Vader was once a Jedi who was seduced by the Dark Side". That's plenty of detail and motivation. I don't think that they could have made a film that would have told the back story well enough. Sometimes less is more and this was one of those times. Prequels that might have been OK would have been tales of the republic that dealt with previously unknown characters during the times of Parts 1-3.


----------

