# Sherlock Holmes Movie-TV-Radio Adaptations



## clovis-man (Feb 15, 2010)

Interference said:


> Ah! So I see  Seems like it may be one of the most widely known little-known-facts there are


 
I'm the master of both the obvious and of useless trivia.

Just watched *Sherlock Holmes*. I liked it much more that I thought I would. Downie's quirkiness was actually quite appropriate. Some of the symbolism was pretty funny (I'm thinking of Blackwood's boast of an empire that would last for all time being followed immediately by a butt-kicking snippet that mimicked goose-stepping). The slow motion fight scenes are an affectation of this director, my older son tells me.

But enough of the A.C. Doyle flavor oozed through to make it enjoyable. So on to the sequel and Professor Moriarty.


----------



## Connavar (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*

Not to diss fans of this movie but i dont like how easy its to please people,make sequels.....

Call me old fashioned but I rather see the film goers of this generation watch a new version of Holmes that is exactly like the books....

But today every film has to be a big blockbuster action film to make the big bucks.....


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



Connavar said:


> Not to diss fans of this movie but i dont like how easy its to please people,make sequels......


 
The sequel for this one was in the works at the get go. But I don't mind. I like to be entertained. 



Connavar said:


> Call me old fashioned but I rather see the film goers of this generation watch a new version of Holmes that is exactly like the books....


 
It's already been done. The series of episodes done by Jeremy Brett for British television are remarkable for their rigorous adherence to the original text. And Brett was the quintessential Holmes.


----------



## Connavar (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



clovis-man said:


> The sequel for this one was in the works at the get go. But I don't mind. I like to be entertained.
> 
> 
> 
> It's already been done. The series of episodes done by Jeremy Brett for British television are remarkable for their rigorous adherence to the original text. And Brett was the quintessential Holmes.



Film is tv ? 

Brett series might be great but its neither a film or something new for this generation.

I dont have anything against this film, i just think its better,its time for the real Sherlock Holmes.

Outside BBC tv.

Thankfully he is too big character to be put down in cinema by a RDJ version for long. Its only a matter of time before they get greedy and do a new Holmes film in 5-10 years.


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



Connavar said:


> Film is tv ?
> 
> Brett series might be great but its neither a film or something new for this generation.


 
Okay, now you've got me confused. First you say that you want a filmed version that is true to the original stories. Then you say you want it for "this generation". How would you approach doing that?

I'm not equating the Brett series to a theatrical release. But consider this: only four of the Holmes "stories" were novels. All of the considerable remainder were short stories. It makes a certain amount of sense for such tales to be presented in a shorter format.

Have you seen the Brett versions?

No more comments from me on this. I've already gone way off topic.


----------



## Connavar (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



clovis-man said:


> Okay, now you've got me confused. First you say that you want a filmed version that is true to the original stories. Then you say you want it for "this generation". How would you approach doing that?
> 
> I'm not equating the Brett series to a theatrical release. But consider this: only four of the Holmes "stories" were novels. All of the considerable remainder were short stories. It makes a certain amount of sense for such tales to be presented in a shorter format.
> 
> ...



Havent seen Brett version yet.  But i know how he looks,is,how hailed the series was.

I meant a film for the big general mainstream crowd.  Movies are what decide their version of a character.   Most people who dont read fantasy think Conan is the dump barbarian version of Arnold movies.....

A faithful hollywood movie simply.  One were Holmes is more like Brett version than DRJ version.

Not saying anything against this new movie itself.  I will see it when its on DVD for RDJ.   Shut off my SH purist mind.


I dont want to keep being off topic either, hope you understand what i meant.


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



Connavar said:


> I meant a film for the big general mainstream crowd. Movies are what decide their version of a character. Most people who dont read fantasy think Conan is the dump barbarian version of Arnold movies.....
> 
> A faithful hollywood movie simply. One were Holmes is more like Brett version than DRJ version.


 
Okay, I think I see your point.

In a weak attempt to stay on topic: Sherlock Holmes feature films have gone from the ridiculous to the sublime. One movie I've seen "recently": *Sherlock Holmes and the Voice of Terror*.

Sherlock Holmes and the Voice of Terror (1942)

This represents the "ridiculous": Rathbone and Bruce v. the Nazis.

Then there is the (almost) sublime: *The Seven Percent Solution*.

The Seven-Per-Cent Solution (1976)

Despite a stunning cast, this adaptation of Nicholas Meyer's Holmes novel ultimately falls flat with a ridiculous train chase.

My obscure point is that any "new" or "fresh" Sherlock Holmes will likely fall well short of the late nineteeth century ideal of our tortured soul of a hero simply because of the desire to appeal to today's audience. Certainly the Guy Ritchie version is nothing if not a good example of this.

Now that I've made a liar of myself, I'll go hide.


----------



## Interference (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*

As long as the thread is slightly off-track, I'll just say that we don't need a Holmes film - films are now pointless - as long as we have the books, several excellent TV incarnations (Douglas Wilmer may have been TV's best, though Nigel Stock was a standard dummy-fare Watson) and an exquisite radio version with Clive Merrison who was supported by a perfect Watson played by Michael Williams.

Last film I saw: Concert for George.  A weepy


----------



## Culhwch (Feb 17, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



Connavar said:


> Not to diss fans of this movie but i dont like how easy its to please people,make sequels.....
> 
> Call me old fashioned but I rather see the film goers of this generation watch a new version of Holmes that is exactly like the books....
> 
> But today every film has to be a big blockbuster action film to make the big bucks.....


 
But the problem is if someone did do a faithful adaptation of Holmes the audience that you want to see it wouldn't bother. I probably wouldn't, that's for sure. 

Movie making is a business. If you were a producer, would you sink fifteen or twenty million dollars into a movie you weren't confident was going to return that much? No. But if Guy Ritchie comes to you with an idea to reboot Holmes with RDJ and Jude Law, plenty of action and not a little sex appeal? I don't know about you, but I'd be all over it.

Blockbusters equal money in the bank. It's as simple as that.


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 17, 2010)

Well, now that my off-topic ravings have been rewarded by a separate thread (Thanks, Ravenus), I can indicate one of the various films that tried to do justice to the A.C. Doyle persona. This one was done for British TV and was an original story:

Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Silk Stocking (2004) (TV)

Rupert Everett made for a pretty good Holmes and the story helped to provide a "warts and all" portrayal. But I don't have any idea of how well received this film was by its prospective audience. I've seen mixed reviews.


----------



## The Judge (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm surprised the reviews of 'The Silk Stocking' were mixed - to my mind it was a travesty from start to finish.  The plot was abysmal and depended on a footman being a 'foot man' - gee, however did they think of that one? I liked Ian Hart as Watson, but there was no spark between him and Everett, and the insistence on bringing in social commentary and a feminist perspective (and I'm as feminist as they come) just ruined whatever story there might have been.  Thumbs down from me on that one.

I loved 'The Seven Percent Solution' on the other hand, despite its obvious failings, probably because it didn't take itself too seriously - the opening with Watson trying to chat up the girls in the corps de ballet and ending up the centre of attention of the gay male dancers after Holmes's comments to the prima ballerina was just hysterical!  Plus, Robert Stephens was marvellous as Holmes.  Not as true a psychological portrayal as Jeremy Brett's, which I don't think could ever be beaten, but certainly realistic and sensitive.


----------



## Connavar (Feb 17, 2010)

*Re: What was the last movie you saw?*



Culhwch said:


> But the problem is if someone did do a faithful adaptation of Holmes the audience that you want to see it wouldn't bother. I probably wouldn't, that's for sure.
> 
> Movie making is a business. If you were a producer, would you sink fifteen or twenty million dollars into a movie you weren't confident was going to return that much? No. But if Guy Ritchie comes to you with an idea to reboot Holmes with RDJ and Jude Law, plenty of action and not a little sex appeal? I don't know about you, but I'd be all over it.
> 
> Blockbusters equal money in the bank. It's as simple as that.



Holmes as the books would make money just like Narnia every other famous book adaptation does.

Maybe not blockbuster level i agree.  Today s audience are like you sucker for action,sex 

Still the guy is most filmed character in lit.  He has survived 100 years as film,tv.  He would make money today also.


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 17, 2010)

The Judge said:


> I'm surprised the reviews of 'The Silk Stocking' were mixed - to my mind it was a travesty from start to finish. The plot was abysmal and depended on a footman being a 'foot man' - gee, however did they think of that one? I liked Ian Hart as Watson, but there was no spark between him and Everett, and the insistence on bringing in social commentary and a feminist perspective (and I'm as feminist as they come) just ruined whatever story there might have been. Thumbs down from me on that one.
> 
> I loved 'The Seven Percent Solution' on the other hand, despite its obvious failings, probably because it didn't take itself too seriously - the opening with Watson trying to chat up the girls in the corps de ballet and ending up the centre of attention of the gay male dancers after Holmes's comments to the prima ballerina was just hysterical! Plus, Robert Stephens was marvellous as Holmes. Not as true a psychological portrayal as Jeremy Brett's, which I don't think could ever be beaten, but certainly realistic and sensitive.


 

We seem to be at opposites on these two films. While there may be serious flaws in the Rupert Everett version, I saw it as an honest attempt at least. OTOH, *The Seven Percent Solution* was played for laughs a little too much, I thought. And it was Nicol Williamson as Holmes. He is an actor of prodigious talent. But I felt like he just mailed in his performance in this one. I guess I was disappointed because I had unrealistically high hopes for it (Olivier as Moriarty? How could it miss!!).


----------



## Rosemary (Feb 17, 2010)

I've only seen clips of the new version of Sherlock Holmes but that was enough to put me off!

Ok, so the younger generation will love it but I'm afraid I prefer the 'older versions'.


----------



## The Judge (Feb 17, 2010)

clovis-man said:


> OTOH, *The Seven Percent Solution* was played for laughs a little too much, I thought. And it was Nicol Williamson as Holmes.


My mistake.  I'd misremembered the title of the film (senility increasing by the day here, I'm afraid  ) - the one I liked with Robert Stephens was *The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes*.  I think I got them confused in my head because the title of the other is so much wittier and seemed more of a piece with the film.  Sorry about that!  (That will teach me to check my facts before writing.) I don't know if you've seen it - though I imagine that you'd have the same objections as it's most definitely played for laughs.


----------



## ravenus (Feb 17, 2010)

OK, my assorted remarks on this:

Yes, there have been enough decent Holmes adaptations to not really REQUIRE a new Holmes movie that will be faithful to the canon, so to say. This is what DVD and mp3 era is good for, a lot of the good stuff is available to those who look for it.

Someone described the BBC series with Clive Merrison as exquisite - I thought Clive was underpowered with a nasal whiny voice which didn't do well for the parts where he was trying to get the Jeremy Brett style flourishes. Some of the episodes were boring in their construction and performance. But also he was pretty damn good in His Last Bow - the part where his Holmes talks about being obsolete in a new era.

The last BBC adaptation of Hound of The Baskervilles (Richard Roxburgh) was TERRIBLE and had a most reedy and rat-like Watson who I wouldn't trust to have any of the chivalry and patriotism of ACD's honorable doctor.

Holmes fans have a great deal of respect for Basil Rathbone but let's not forget that even he and Nigel Bruce acted in a battleship-load of very goofy (though sometimes entertainingly so) "original" Holmes radio plays.


----------



## HareBrain (Feb 17, 2010)

Jeremy Brett was the perfect Holmes as far as I'm concerned, but I think the whole cast of those series was excellent, especially David Burke and then Edward Hardwicke as Watson: such a refreshing change after the bumbling Nigel Bruce I'd grown up with (though a fair number of years after the films were made, I should point out!) And the hour-long episode (fifty minutes after ads) was the perfect adaptation format for the short stories. The Copper Beeches and The Red-Headed League are personal favourites.


----------



## The Judge (Feb 17, 2010)

HareBrain said:


> The Copper Beeches and The Red-Headed League are personal favourites.


Do I detect a theme here?  (Or am I misremembering again - this time as to the colour of the woman's hair in 'The Copper Beeches'?)

I certainly agree about the Doctors Watson, and Jeremy Brett, of course.


----------



## Interference (Feb 17, 2010)

Hardwicke would be my definitive TV Watson to date.  An intelligent read.


----------



## Interference (Feb 17, 2010)

ravenus said:


> Someone described the BBC series with Clive Merrison as exquisite - I thought Clive was underpowered with a nasal whiny voice which didn't do well for the parts where he was trying to get the Jeremy Brett style flourishes. Some of the episodes were boring in their construction and performance. But also he was pretty damn good in His Last Bow - the part where his Holmes talks about being obsolete in a new era.



Merrison's voice is actually a pretty fair approximation to Doyle's description of Holmes' voice.  Nasal is certainly an adjective he used, though I think he stopped short of whiny 

I was obviously more impressed by the series and the chemistry that I seemed to detect between Merrison and Williams.  On a production level, I felt that considerable attention had been given to the details of the sound picture - I understand that they recorded a number of sound effects especially for the programme, included a number of different types of carriage on a cobble-stone street in Edinburgh (the only place they could find that wasn't disturbed by 20th century traffic at 6 am), giving the impression (for me at least) that it was recorded on location - which of course, it wasn't.

There were some immensely entertaining moments that will have me listening again every time it comes round on BBC 7.  Recommended listening.


----------



## paranoid marvin (Feb 17, 2010)

The trailer for the new Holmes film put me right off. To be honest  , and as others have already said , Jeremy Brett is THE quintessential Holmes , has never been and WILL never be surpassed. With a significant number of Doyle's adventures televised , there really is no need to look elsewhere for your sate of sleuthing.


----------



## clovis-man (Feb 17, 2010)

The Judge said:


> My mistake. I'd misremembered the title of the film (senility increasing by the day here, I'm afraid  ) - the one I liked with Robert Stephens was *The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes*. I think I got them confused in my head because the title of the other is so much wittier and seemed more of a piece with the film. Sorry about that! (That will teach me to check my facts before writing.) I don't know if you've seen it - though I imagine that you'd have the same objections as it's most definitely played for laughs.


 
I think I must have had my "serious" hat on too tightly. I don't mind some comic relief in my Holmes, or even just comedy when it comes down to it. I'll check out the Stephens piece.

For some "serious comedy", I'd recommend *Without A Clue*. This one features Michael Caine as Holmes, Ben Kingsley as Watson and Jeffrey Jones as Inspector Lestrade (a great casting choice, BTW). The twist is that Holmes is a bumbling drunken actor and Watson is the real brains in the outfit.

Some pretty funny scenes, e.g.,

Without a Clue (1988) - Memorable quotes

Another "serious" film that intrigued me was the 1933 *A Study In Scarlet* with Reginald Owen as Holmes. It also featured Anna May Wong as the sinister villain Mrs. Pyke. I found it interesting that, in order to justify an on screen relationship between Ms. Wong and a caucasion actor playing the part of Captain Pyke, the filmmakers had to resort to explaining that she had only been "pretending" to be married to him. The film was just okay, but Anna May Wong was mesmerizing.


----------



## blacknorth (Mar 5, 2010)

I think English actor Edward Petherbridge would have made the perfect Holmes - unfortunately he never had the opportunity to play the role on screen, but he did make a number of stories for radio which remain my favourite Holmes listening.


----------



## The Judge (Mar 6, 2010)

Ah, but Petherbridge has already been the perfect Lord Peter Wimsey, so we can't let him monopolise English amateur detectives!


----------



## paranoid marvin (Mar 6, 2010)

Pete Postlethwaite would make a brilliant Lestrade


----------



## blacknorth (Mar 6, 2010)

The Judge said:


> Ah, but Petherbridge has already been the perfect Lord Peter Wimsey, so we can't let him monopolise English amateur detectives!



I'd forgotten all about that series.

How about this then - Harry H Corbett as Sherlock Holmes and Wilfred Brambell as Dr Watson.







You know it makes sense.


----------



## The Judge (Mar 6, 2010)

They were both very fine actors, and actually Bramble in reali life was well-spoken and elegant, so I think he could well have brought something to the role of Watson.  

Taking off thread for a moment, I heard the original Galt and Simpson 'Steptoe and Son' play on the radio some while back and I'd never realised before just how tragic it was, in the way Harold was trapped in this relationship and could never escape.


----------



## manephelien (Mar 10, 2010)

I've seen lots of different Sherlock Holmes versions over the years, ironically not yet the two newest ones (Ritchie & Goldenberg's direct-to-tv version). However, to my mind, Sherlock doesn't get better than Jeremy Brett. PC be damned, this one had Sherlock sniffing coke as he did in the books.


----------



## ravenus (Mar 10, 2010)

*sniffing*? I believe he used a syringe 
The TV series also shows Holmes giving up cocaine (in *The Devil's Foot* episode. Apparently it was at Jeremy's request).


----------



## Vladd67 (Mar 10, 2010)

That was something that annoyed me about the last version of Hound of the Baskervilles. It showed Holmes, while working, shooting up in a station toilet. Now this may be a more accurate portrayal of a drug addict but the Holmes of the books never needed drugs while working, he only used cocaine when he was bored.


----------

