# Knight effigies with crossed legs on tombs



## Brian G Turner (Jul 11, 2016)

The tombs of mediaeval knights sometimes include an effigy of the knight laid to rest, and it's been suggested the posture reveals something of their life and death.

For example, a sword on their chest means they died in battle, and the legs crossed over means they went on crusade, etc.

Elizabeth Chadwick explores the subject here:
The History Girls: CROSS YOUR LEGS AND HOPE TO DIE: What those effigies are really telling you by Elizabeth Chadwick

Her conclusion? There is no standard code behind the postures, and they reflect nothing more than artistic style in fashion at the time.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 11, 2016)

We search for patterns in stars, shapes in clouds, famous faces on toasted bread.
The reason people thought there might be a code is this habit we have of finding patterns and meaning in everything. It's part of the reason for conspiracy theories and ideas like "modern technology" came from Roswell. The real background to Moon Landings, computers, transistors, TV and ICs is too technical and complicated for most people. The conspiracy theories, like patterns in the stars, are more attractive and easier to understand.

Even co-incidences in news or filing of similar patents at the same time  or the Bermuda triangle have real reasons that are harder to grasp than obvious ones.

We are complicated but like simple satisfying  answers. That's why stories work.


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 11, 2016)

Ray McCarthy said:


> we have of finding patterns and meaning in everything



We also forget how standardised the modern world is - and how much more variable the mediaeval world was.


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## TheDustyZebra (Jul 11, 2016)

It's apparently the same way with equestrian statues of heroes -- the notion is that the hoof position depicts the way the person died, whether in battle, of battle wounds, or outside of battle, but they aren't all accurate to that. Not all the artists got the memo, I suppose.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 11, 2016)

Brian Turner said:


> We also forget how standardised the modern world is


Without going into detail that's a naive myth. The modern world is very much less standardised than people imagine. The Romans, Greeks Egyptians and Babylonians did have some standards. The Romans in particular had to introduce urban building standards.

The modern world is just as varied.


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## The Ace (Jul 11, 2016)

Maybe he was just bursting when he modeled for the sculptor.

"If you don't hurry up, you'll have a wet couch!"


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 11, 2016)

The Ace said:


> when he modeled for the sculptor.


I wondered about the modelling as most of these are made after the original is dead and buried. I presume some suitable worker was dressed in armour and used as a model. Does anyone know how they did the carvings?


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## Dave (Jul 11, 2016)

TheDustyZebra said:


> It's apparently the same way with equestrian statues of heroes


That one I had heard of and believed was true. The other I had not heard before.


TheDustyZebra said:


> Not all the artists got the memo, I suppose.


It is harder to enforce rules over longer distances. There may well have been Roman standards, but having "officers" to enforce them - be that administrative or military, that would be the key. Then there are people who just want to break any rules, or who want to break specific rules because they don't like the person in power who made them.

If there was such a code in medieval times then it I'm sure that it would have been recorded, and like heraldry symbols, those codes would have been passed down. The fact that it isn't readily available says to me that it never existed.


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 11, 2016)

Ray McCarthy said:


> The modern world is very much less standardised than people imagine



The modern world at least has the basics of standardisation that were completely absent from the mediaeval one.

In mediaeval Europe, weights and measures varied between towns, with each market having its own standards. And there was no standardised spelling of the written word, plus a huge number of regional dialects.

Hence why the idea that there was a standard way of presenting knight effigies according to a fixed and agreed criteria falls apart when you think about it.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 11, 2016)

Brian Turner said:


> nd there was no standardised spelling of the written word, plus a huge number of regional dialects.


Ah, like IM, Twitter, facebook, Skype and TxtSpeak  

There'd be records, like there are for other things.

I don't think it's specifically a "modern" thing as it's quite a while ago the "code" mythos started, not because of standards, but because people like simplistic satisfying explanations as to why things are done.


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