# Ancient History....Help on Books



## tonic (May 17, 2004)

Can anyone help me find a book that can teach me more about Ancient History. This isn't for school and is solely for the reason of educating me more about the civilizations that came before because I find it all extremely interesting. Whether the books be about Britania, Troy, Rome everything. Im also a big fan of mythology but I can't seem to find any interesting books because most of the one's I find are quite boring. So if anyone can suggest something, i'll check it out and see if my library has it. 

Thanks in advance


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## Esioul (May 17, 2004)

Sir Ronald Syme's 'The Roman Revolution' is excellant on one part of Roman history. It's great fun to read the original sources in translation as well. I reccomend Suetonius' 'The Twelve Caesar's', very funny and rude, but anyway. Read Virgil's Aeneid too.


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## fallenstar (May 18, 2004)

Iliad and Odessey is boring if you found the wrong translator, like Chapman who is a great master except that his tranlation of Homer will serious make a person bored to death if not so exaggerating. I heard of other translators that translate them into prose, I think it's the Penguin Classic edition or something.


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## Esioul (May 18, 2004)

Yeah.... best to go for the penguin classic. I like the West translation of Virgil,too: I usually avoid the ones in verse, they're so much more difficult to read.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (May 18, 2004)

'A History of India' by Romila Thapar (Penguin Books) is an excellent introduction to Ancient India.


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## Brian G Turner (May 18, 2004)

If you have any good clearance bookshops or second hand bookshops near you, it's always worth checking these out - big glossy photo-laden ones are my favourites. 

 However, if you want resources specific to fantas writing, there are some recommendations posted up here: http://www.chronicles-network.net/forum/showthread.php?t=94


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## polymorphikos (May 18, 2004)

The Histories, by Herodotus. Gives you a dense, highly entertaining sourcebook on a great deal of Greek and Meditteranean history, aswell as insight into the cultures and everything. A great deal of it is speculation or hearsay, but if you use commonsense then it's incredibly useful, and he usually points-out when he's relating something second-hand.


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## Brian G Turner (May 18, 2004)

Nooooo!!! Not Herodotus!! Bored me to tears, that did! 

 Sort of a "things heard down the pub" sort of book, isn;t it?

 For a real life glimpse of the ancient world try Thucydides "The Peloponnesian War" and Xenophon "March of the 10,000" (or whatever title it currently goes under) for a look at ancient Greece. Both books are very good.

 For Rome Suetonious "Twelve Caesars" is probably the best, but do be aware that he repeats any old gossip and rumour, and a lot of it is mistaken as "actual history".

 For the history of Byzantium/ Constinople try John Julius Norwich - he wrote an excellent 3 part series, but there's a condensed one-book publication. The great thing about Byzantine history is that you have a big cross-over between the ancient world and the mediaeval - and generally so close in content to most fantasy: castles, kings, mass battles, great walls, emperors, wild hordes, desert kingdoms, great learning centers, strong religious groups, knights, seiges, invasions and naval warfare - plenty to source for writing!


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## polymorphikos (May 18, 2004)

wher as with Herodotus you have the story of the king who dreamt that his daughter made water until it flooded the kingdom. And a guy got his kid served to him for dinner. And did you know that in the top of the temple of Babylon a virgin would lie and wait for a god to come and ravish her. I just hope she brought a thick paper-back book and some French knitting.


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## Esioul (May 18, 2004)

Don't mention Thucidydes to me...

Or even Herodotus... 

Was it Atreus who ate his kid? I can't remember. There's lots of instances of people being eaten by horses though.


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## The Master™ (May 18, 2004)

I have a book called "Ancient Civilisations" published by The Times...

From 3100BC (Old Kingdom Egypt) to 1532AD (Empires of the Andes)...

Gives you a flavour of different civilisations... Then you go out and get some more information...

Or you could try: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/

But that tends to be for Roman, Egyptian, etc (the "popular" ones)...


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## Brian G Turner (May 18, 2004)

The thing I remember most about Herodotus is that the whole reason for it is to explain why the Persians and Greeks came to blows - but he takes about 500 pages of digression to actually get to the point. As for memorable stories he tells - women having sex with goats in Egypt. I remembered that not least because of the extraordinary similarity to extracted confessions from "witches" across the mediaeval period.

 As for Thucidydes - ah, as with most books, better read voluntarily than forced.


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## tonic (May 18, 2004)

If I wanted to start at the beginning, not at the Mayans or Incans but something like Greece or Egypt which civilization should I begin with. I think I want to go in order, or the most interesting but somewhere twoards the beginning. I think if I go and try to understand all the civilizations at once i'll just give myself a headache. ​


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## Esioul (May 18, 2004)

I know, I know, I know... or at least I should know. I was given a copy of Thucidydes and told to read it, it would be useful for my Oxford interview. Somehow I never did get round to reading it,and it did come up in the interview, and I totally messed it up. Grrr. 

Goats..... yuk.


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## Brian G Turner (May 18, 2004)

Read a general book on Egypt - covering the Old Kingdom through to the New Kingdom.

 Then read a general book on the Ancient Greeks, especially the 5th-4th centuries BC.

 The read something general on Rome. 

 That would be a good order. 

 Again, I highly recommend cheap bookshops - *the* book that really pushed my interest was a glorious big thick over-sized hardback, covered from head to foot in colour photographs, of the condensed version of Gibbons "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". The text wasn't in chronological order, and was at times hard to read - but just a pause to look at the pictures and it just sent you there, somehow. And how much did the book cost? An incredibly modest £9.99.

 I purchased a lot of ancient history books from clearance book shops, but they tended to be more pictures than text, so I really starting to blow my money at Waterstones.


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## polymorphikos (May 19, 2004)

I'll defend Herodotus's digressions onthe grounds that he was actually trying to compile a data-base of everything he'd ever heard about the world. Apparently he'd heard quite a bit. Maybe I should try that.


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## Brian G Turner (May 19, 2004)

Heh, it might have been an issue of expectation. 

 I don't remember which other works I'd read first - I simply remember being relieved to reach the very last pages of the book. 

 It might be more fun if I read it again - it was rich with stories - but it is quite a large work. Perhaps a big lavish over-sized hardback filled cover to cover with lush colour photographs surrounding the text would be most inviting.


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## tonic (May 20, 2004)

Think Im gonna start by reading The Twelve Cesars and Alexander The Great (from that list in medival/fantasy resources) 

Hope there interesting....If im nto farmiliar with a lot of the history will I understand the books?


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## Brian G Turner (May 20, 2004)

The Robin Lane Fox version of Alexander? It is interesting, but a little long, and there is a lot of commentary. Then again, it doesn't skimp on the events.

 Suetonius is a general good easy read.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 20, 2004)

Robin Lane Fox views Alexander from the perspective of his alcoholism if I remember correctly.  

The following texts are considered to be 'must reads' on Alexander the Great: 

Quintus Curtius Rufus. _The History of Alexander._
Arrian. _The Campaigns of Alexander._
Plutarch.  _Alexander._

If I remember correctly I preferred Plutarch and Arrian, and found Rufus a little bit dull.  Just my opinion though.  If you can get hold of the Michael Wood BBC video series, _In the footsteps of Alexander_, then you are in for a pleasurable journey into the world of Alexander.  Wood revisits all of the actual locations that Alexander journeyed through on his conquest of Persia and reads from the above texts.  It is a marvellous venture into the ancient world.  Michael Wood is fantastic.  

The Alexander trilogy by Valerio Massimo Manfredi, although a work of fiction,  is a very accurate account of Alexanders life.  It is the basis of one of the Alexander films due out next year.  Once again, I recommend this series to everybody on these boards.  They are fantastic.

I hope that you are interested in Alexander, or I have just wasted your time....


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## Esioul (May 20, 2004)

I've got the Arrian, unread, a very nice Loeb.


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## Brian G Turner (May 20, 2004)

I watched some of the Michael Wood on TV but had to stop - he was drooling all over Alexander like a mindless sycophant. I have to keep away from anything Michael Wood nowadays. Bring back John Romer!


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## Lacedaemonian (May 21, 2004)

Simon Schama was always hero worshipped at university.  His history of britain videos were tremendous!  You can't blame Michael for his enthusiasm..the fellow was walking in the footsteps of Alexander the Great!  He did drool over him an awful lot though, but so was I.


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## Brian G Turner (May 21, 2004)

I actually never saw any of History of Britain works - I should watch out for those.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 21, 2004)

Simon Schama is exceptional!  If you are interested in British history, then nobody tells it better.  The series was on BBC and will most likely be repeated on all of the History channels and on the various BBC channels.  I could download them.....


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## Esioul (May 21, 2004)

Where did you go to uni, by the way, Lac?


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## Lacedaemonian (May 21, 2004)

Northumbria University.  Not quite as high profile as Durham.  What will you be studying at university Esioul?


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## Esioul (May 21, 2004)

Archaeology. I'm guessing that Northumbria uni is in the North too! Durham wasn't my first choice, but it seems nice anyway.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 21, 2004)

Durham is one of the big three universities.  It is also a wonderful place to live - very picturesque!  Northumbria University is in Newcastle.  I applied to Durham and Newcastle but was unsuccessful.  I wanted to study Ancient History there.  Life does not always go to plan though.


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## Esioul (May 21, 2004)

No. I'm an Oxford reject. I don't know why I applied there at all, actually! Did you do ancient history in Northumbria uni?


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## Dead Riverdragon (May 22, 2004)

Durham is one of the 'big three' universities in what now? (I'm not being facetious, I just never heard of it being worth much).


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## Michael (May 22, 2004)

Geological evidence may decide that something about Egypt has been around since prehistoric times, but that doesn't count anyway. Historically, I thought that Egypt followed Sumer (although the two civilizations apparently coexisted after Egypt arose from its antiquity).

Just as a source for ideas I recommend the _Epic of Gilgamesh_, although it's mythology and not history. The _Bible_ is also full of good stuff, I think, and has its historical moments. I mean . . . why not?


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

Well, thanks a lot, Dead Riverdragon. It's all right, even if it's not Oxbridge. And maybe its slightly less full of snobs.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is weird but great...


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## Brian G Turner (May 22, 2004)

Epic of Gilgamesh:
http://www.comparative-religion.com/ancient/mesopotamia/epic-of-gilgamesh/


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## Lacedaemonian (May 22, 2004)

Durham is one of the highest profile universities in the country, slightly less high profile than Oxbridge.  Profiles are profiles but employers are more impressed when these names are on your CV.  When picking a university it is best to go where the best writers (lecturers) are.  Durham university is full to the brim with lantern jawed toffs but I am told is a wonderful place to study.  You should enjoy your time there, and if anybody gives you a hard time just put a post on here and I'll be there in 25 minutes.  lol


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

Thanks... I might just do that!


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## Lacedaemonian (May 22, 2004)

No problem.  I must say that I am very envious of you.  It would be great studying Archeology at Durham....  I just did History at university.  I scored very poorly on all of my A-level mock exams, which in turn effectd my predicted grade scores which were sent to all my prospective university courses.  My father died suddenly and unexpectedly two days before the exams and so my mind was elsewhere as you could imagine.  That's life for you.  I may do a degree in ancient history when I retire, that would be good.  I would really love to study Norse mythology or the Germanic mythologies, but that would just be for fun.  Baba Yaga....


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

That's bad luck for you- I know something like that would ruin my grades. The whole Oxford thing almost ruined my grades, but I'm trying not to let it take over or anything, which would be silly as it's not that important. I am sort of looking forward to Durham, but I'm a bit nervous of the whole thing really.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 22, 2004)

There will be plenty southerners in Durham to make you feel at home.  lol
It must be a nerve wracking time going away to university.  You'll be fine once you have got a trowel in your mits and your up to your waist in mud.


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

Hmmm, yes, I do like digging. It's the whole making friends thing which scares me most.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 22, 2004)

You seem very nice, very amiable, I am sure you will meet some good friends.  I am not very nice, nor am I very amiable, and I made some good friends.  I went to university with the intention of not making any new friends.  There are too many people and from such diverse backgrounds that you are assured to be surrounded by an interesting mix of people before you know it.  I am sure you will become pretty tight knit with your trwel weilding buddies!


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## Michael (May 22, 2004)

I'm just envious period.  Durham . . . you must have worked very hard to get in there.  I hope I can maintain enough discipline just to keep writing.  If my past education experience is any indication, I'm in trouble (as far as discipline).  Good luck!


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

Thanks. I've managed to force myself to get through most of Book 2 of the Aeneid today, hopefully I can finish it tonight, but it's depressing me a bit. Too much death! And I hate Aeneas.


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## Lacedaemonian (May 22, 2004)

Just get it finished if you're not enjoying it.  Put books like that down and they are hard to pick up again.  Is it part of your study?


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## Esioul (May 22, 2004)

yehc bord gone


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