# Origin of a phrase



## Somni (Jan 2, 2011)

OK, it is not really a book search but I did not know where best to put it.  I have been trying to find the origin of the phrase:

"Civilization is X meals from Y"

Where: 
X is a number 
Y is a anarchy/collapse/ chaos etc.​but I am drowning in the variety of forms this phrase has across the internet.  Does anyone know or could give me a pointer on where to look?  Thanks.  ​


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## plebeian (Jan 2, 2011)

I have heard something like this recently.  A quick google turned up this:

Britain ‘four meals away from anarchy’ - Times Online (google the phrase - I couldn't post the link as my post count is not yet high enough ;()

There are several other stories recently that quote an MI5 source, but I didn't see the MI5 source in a quick few searches.

I think this idea is very old indeed, maybe like an old Roman empire quote (to broadly paraphrase) that an army is always X meals away from defeat.

Also, paraphrasing Napoleon, an army marches on its stomache.

Hope that is useful!


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## chopper (Jan 2, 2011)

hmmm. it turned up in Pratchett/Gaiman - "Good Omens", but indications are that it is a lot older than that.


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## Somni (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, I had wondered if it was very old myself, which would explain why finding the origin is hard.  I believe the phrase is used in Lucifer's Hammer (Niven and Pournelle) as well, but I can't find my copy to check.

Following the 'civilization is four meals from anarchy' search I found some sources from wiki quote (which is funny as wikiquote was the first place I looked and found nothing) that suggest, Trotsky, Dumas, or the Romans.  I'll keep looking.


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