# Best/Favourite SciFi/Fantasy Villain



## Dave (Dec 31, 2014)

Okay, your favourite villain, or the character you consider the best villain. Who frightened you the most as a child? Who is the most complex? Who do you love to hate? Who still makes you hide behind the sofa? 

There was a very old thread here with a poll and the winner was er... quite surprising. It being Christmas now, there was an old film just shown on TV that reminded me and I just wanted to see if it would still be the same answer over again. So, no cheating and looking at the old thread!

The answer doesn't need to come from film, any media - TV, Books, Games - are acceptable.
And you can be pretty free with the concept of SciFi/Fantasy - you may include a James Bond villain, for instance, but not historical figures such as Adolf Hitler. And I think they need to be humanoid - so you can't have the T Rex from Jurassic Park - but I'll let you decide if that is your choice.

Please add your reasons for your selection. I'm not going to attach a poll because I don't want to give any suggestions upfront, but if it becomes a popular thread then I can add a poll later and we can all vote on it.

Happy New Year,
Dave


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 31, 2014)

I have a soft spot for Servalan in B7, mainly because Jacqueline Pearce was so good at playing her, and she was so darn glam.


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## Venusian Broon (Dec 31, 2014)

argh, this is so difficult. 

I had to get it down to my favourite for each media first...

Games: Definitely *Alessa* from _Silent Hill._ I mean after all she caused the whole town to disappear and manifest all those constructions and the horrible things that chased you...but then she had more or less be wronged by the townsfolk, so she'd getting her revenge on them. I also like the fact that you can't defeat her, she lets you go at the end with the rewards/punishments that your actions deserved. So pretty complex for a video game.

Film: The Mothman himself, *Indrid Cold*, from the _the Mothman Prophecies. _Basically because he's so elusive and _alien_, and his psychological games freak. me. out. Indestructible as he's always out there, you only have to chose to listen to him...Again the film hints that he's not really evil at all, just doing what is natural to him, although in reality he is tormenting the Richard Gere character throughout the film. 

TV: *Ben Linus *from _Lost _for being a bottomless pit of deceit and thus ambiguous regarding what 'side' he was on. I still almost cried when they shot his daughter in front of him...

Books: Sooo many to chose from... Sauron (did so well just being a fiery eye atop a tower), Patrick Bateman the _American Psycho _(for his extensive knowledge of the 80s and a whole bunch of trivial stuff)...no, I'll go for  *Palmer Eldritch*, the 'devil' at the centre of the universe in PKD's _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch..._because there was no escape from him at all (or was there?...)

And who comes out on top <_VB flips a four sided coin_>, by a whisker it goes to *Indrid Cold *I think, a force of the mysterious and the unknown.


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## Vince W (Dec 31, 2014)

I immediately thought of Sauron as well @Venusian Broon, but Baron Harkonnen is an excellent villain as well as Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohaim.

The one that tops the list though is Sergeant Obidiah Hakeswill. What a pyscho.


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## Kerrybuchanan (Dec 31, 2014)

Umbridge from the Harry Potter books is pretty bad ass, but I agree with Obadiah Hakeswill from Sharpe and definitely Ben Linus from Lost too.


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## thaddeus6th (Dec 31, 2014)

Hakeswill is a good pick, but one that really got the juices of hate flowing for me was Regal, in the first Farseer book.


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## AnyaKimlin (Dec 31, 2014)

*The Kandy Man* from Dr Who wins that one.

Quickly followed by* Scunner Campbell* from Supergran - he wasn't scary as such just hysterically funny.

There was also a *Dame Slap* (now I believe Dame Snap) in the Faraway Tree that had me terrified when I was about five. 

Also *Fenella the Kettle Witch* from Chorlton and the Wheelies.  

As an adult it's harder to choose but 
*
Alice Nutter *in Mist Over Pendle she was the evil head witch who they had to defeat.


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## Juliana (Dec 31, 2014)

Kerry, I was watching HP with the kids the other day and just thinking what a wonderful villain Umbridge is!


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## reiver33 (Dec 31, 2014)

*Lucas Buck* from American Gothic


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jan 1, 2015)

For TV, I would say *Kerr Avon*, of Blake's Seven.  I know some will contend that he isn't a villain, since in the first seasons his actions were always less selfish than his suggestions would indicate, and of course eventually he became the hero of the series.  But it's my contention that he was slowly going mad (not to mention bad and dangerous to know) during the final season, though it takes a long time to realize it.

Also, he looked fabulous in black leather, and his smile always reminded me of a shark.  (I remember a friend saying that when Avon flashed his pearly whites you always knew there would be blood on the walls.)

For books, I would suggest *Steerpike, *who puts the ghastly in Gormenghast.


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## Jo Zebedee (Jan 1, 2015)

Ooooh, Avon is an interesting choice. One of my fav sff characters ever and definitely closer to a baddy than a hero but, then again, he possibly did enough... 

 I love the line in the last episode where he gives a nod to the slow madness of the last series and refers to himself (obliquely) as a psychopath. Really well done...


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## Mirannan (Jan 1, 2015)

One of the best villains (arguably, with some anti-hero mixed in because her victims are always the worst of scum) IMHO is the Queen of Pain from the OA setting. Something about a hideously mistreated and then hugely boosted into the state of being a transapient demigod...


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## Rodders (Jan 3, 2015)

Scorpius from Farscape was a superb villain. (If I had to go with one, he'd definitely be my favourite.)

I loved the Shadows from B5 too (although that was more for the look of them and their technology.)

The Inhibitors from The Revelation Space books.

As a Star Wars fan, I'd have to say Darth Vader.

The Necromorphs from Deadspace for Games.


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## thaddeus6th (Jan 3, 2015)

Scorpius is very good. It'll be interesting to see how Farscape goes when it returns.


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## Dave (Jan 3, 2015)

Thanks for your excellent suggestions. My apologies - I searched for the old thread here and there was never a poll taken on this board, but it was a radio station poll I was thinking of from 2004. 

And the Winner was the _Childcatcher_ from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (which I found very surprising.) I can't remember all the others but it was a film poll only, and not restricted to SFF, so the _Joker_ appeared, but also _Hannibal Lector, Anton Chigurh, Nurse Ratched _and _Annie Wilkes_.

Personally, I don't know who would be my top. Certainly, the _Joker _(Heath Ledger)_, Darth Vader,_ the_ Terminator, Servalan, Sauron_ would all feature in my top ten.


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## Venusian Broon (Jan 3, 2015)

Dave said:


> Thanks for your excellent suggestions. My apologies - I searched for the old thread here and there was never a poll taken on this board, but it was a radio station poll I was thinking of from 2004.
> 
> And the Winner was the _Childcatcher_ from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (which I found very surprising.) I can't remember all the others but it was a film poll only, and not restricted to SFF, so the _Joker_ appeared, but also _Hannibal Lector, Anton Chigurh, Nurse Ratched _and _Annie Wilkes_.
> 
> Personally, I don't know who would be my top. Certainly, the _Joker _(Heath Ledger)_, Darth Vader,_ the_ Terminator, Servalan, Sauron_ would all feature in my top ten.


 
Actually the child catcher still gives me a visceral verging-on-nausea type feeling (helped massively by meeting the creation as a young child watching the film no doubt.) I also somehow associate him with the taste/feeling of eating undercooked potatoes. I'm sure psychologists would have a field day exploring that. So I can see why it's up there.

But in terms of best baddie, no - as you could probably tell I like 'em complex, ambiguous and to be 'the best', practically unstoppable. The child catcher is a 1-D character and was outsmarted by a bunch of kids in the end. 

Now you are going to say, hindsight!, but I always got the whiff of the child catcher off Jimmy Saville as well when growing up, so always was tepid about 'im fixing it.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 4, 2015)

Kane the  immortal Mystic Swordsman  in Karl Edward Wagner's novels . Kane is an antihero/ Hero/ villain.  The books are coming back into print in august 2015. He is a really cool character.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jan 5, 2015)

It's already been said, but... Steerpike, from Gormenghast!


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## Mouse (Jan 5, 2015)

I'm definitely agreeing with *Scorpius*. And I'll add Braca too cos I _love_ the Scorpy/Braca relationship. 

Nobody's mentioned *Alpha* from Dollhouse. Alan Tudyk as a bad guy and a really bloody scary bad guy. Brilliant. 

Erm... I can think of a couple from non-SFF so I won't mention those. Can't think of any others at the mo. Maybe *Krang* from TMNT. Because who doesn't love a talking brain that travels around in the stomach of a giant man-robot thing.


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## Phyrebrat (Jan 8, 2015)

reiver33 said:


> *Lucas Buck* from American Gothic





Mouse said:


> I'm definitely agreeing with *Scorpius*.



These.

But also I'd have to vote for *Anna* from the reboot of V, apart from the fact that she was so cool (literally), she's actually the only villain I can think of who realised her objective and won!

But no list of mine would be complete without *Emperor Palpatine* and *Darth Maul*

pH


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## J-Sun (Jan 8, 2015)

reiver33 said:


> *Lucas Buck* from American Gothic



It just weirds me out that apparently five people watched _American Gothic_ and we're all here. 

I like that and the Scorpius nominations. I especially can't argue against *Darth Vader*, though, and I'd add *the Emperor*.





On the other hand, there's *Dr. Emilio Lizardo/Lord Whorfin*. (Shame there's not an actual "best of" of him, but that gives some of the idea.)

I think it's clear from those two that I value subtlety in a great villain. (Seriously, though, the Emperor's performance is great.)

My favorite Buffy big bad (nod to Spike and Dru) is *the Mayor*. (There  so needs to be a "best of the Mayor" clip that gets in more Mayory goodness - or badness, as the case may be.) Darth Angelus gave me the tvtrope "affably evil" for the Mayor. He's almost the opposite of the others - he can be full-tilt evil when the chips are down but he spends most of his time being a goofy Ward Cleaver to his sweet killer "daughter" Faith. One of the most beautifully messed up relationships ever made.

Does ST:TNG's *Q* count as a villain? Because he'd be there.

So there's the funny, friendly villains.

I don't tend to gravitate to many book villains - they may be subtler or less humorous or whatever the case may be. They tend to be "antagonists" more than "villains" like, say, the Mule. But Neal Asher's *Skellor* was a pretty vivid villain. He was just so revolting and destructive and murderous and just really really weird. The tech with which he could be villainous was pretty amazing. His ultimate(?) fate was pretty remarkable, too. Big time print villain there.


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## chongjasmine (Jan 8, 2015)

I like darth vader from star wars.


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## Rodders (Jan 11, 2015)

Jha-Dur (Deathwalker) from the Babylon 5 episode of the same name was a very good baddie. Shame she was only in one episode.


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## Deep Space Nina (Jan 14, 2015)

About frightening as a child: This alien being from Star Trek TOS that fed on feeling. I was so afraid! I watched the episode with my elder brother (he was nine or ten, I was at kindergarten-age) and I even ran outside the house as I feared that so much. 
Today´s favourite villain (if you can call a being beyond good and evil that) may be Cthulhu. But sure, Darth Vader is pretty cool ...


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## michaelhall2007 (Mar 27, 2016)

It has to be these bad boys
*
The  DALEKS*​
I wonder what they chat about in the cafeteria when they're not EXTERMINATING?

Dalek 1: Have you heard the rumours?
Dalek 2: No. What rumours?
Dalek 1: They recon there's steps.
Dalek 2: Ooh what. We'll that's it then.  We're screwed.


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## EJ Heijnis (Apr 8, 2016)

The Tuunbaq from _The Terror _by Dan Simmons terrified me. A killing monster of mythological proportions, and no one knows what it is, what it wants, or what it's capable of. On the other end of the villain spectrum, Steven Erikson's Korbolo Dom is about as vile a character as you can imagine... And he doesn't even get what's coming to him (or he hasn't yet, anyway... I'm looking forward to the Karsa trilogy.)


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## Pentagon (Apr 8, 2016)

J-Sun said:


> My favorite Buffy big bad (nod to Spike and Dru) is *the Mayor*. (There so needs to be a "best of the Mayor" clip that gets in more Mayory goodness - or badness, as the case may be.) Darth Angelus gave me the tvtrope "affably evil" for the Mayor. He's almost the opposite of the others - he can be full-tilt evil when the chips are down but he spends most of his time being a goofy Ward Cleaver to his sweet killer "daughter" Faith. One of the most beautifully messed up relationships ever made.



By far, my favourite characters in the whole series. Though i'd add Faith + Mayor


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## psikeyhackr (Apr 8, 2016)

I think the Barons of Jacksons Whole of Bujold's Vorkosigan Universe are the best.  It is not like they are all the same.  Mark Vorkosigan killed one of them and Ivan Vorpatril married the daughter of another but they are all kind of fiendish.

psik


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## Old_Man_Steve2016 (Apr 21, 2016)

The smoking man from X-Files. It's hard to find a more loathsome, persistent villain on TV. 
But I did.

Alia A Saachez from Gundam 00. He traveled around war zones in the middle east, kidnapping kids (like the main character) and having them kill their parents to join his army of children. He's got it all in the villainy department:

heavy on the vices
hard to pronounce/spell "foreign" name
Jerk personality with a slice of creep
blood knight tendencies
completely irredeemable
combination of street smart, battle smart, and strategic smarts
douchebag beard that makes me wonder if he tried to copy Col. Sanders and failed. 
It's one of the rare times I cheered when a villain got blown up by a main character, and I was so disappointed when they brought him back in the sequel. Makes me hate him even more!


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## psikeyhackr (May 31, 2016)

OK, now I have got you by the short hairs. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

*Eater of Grass*, alias *Mellow Yellow*

A Kzin in Larry Niven's Known Space universe appearing in multiple stories in The Man Kzin Wars.  He tortured and experimented on hundreds of humans.  Kind of like *Deathwalker* in Babylon 5.  But he stole a captured hyperdrive ship forthe Kzin Patriarchy so he is a Promethean character in a sense though an enemy to humans.

psik

PS -I posted this in a villians thread and the thread disappeared.  What gives?


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## Kieran Song (Jun 5, 2016)

From movies, definitely the Joker. From fiction, Joffrey! There has never been a villain you wanted to strangle more than him.


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## Cli-Fi (Jun 16, 2016)

Old_Man_Steve2016 said:


> The smoking man from X-Files. It's hard to find a more loathsome, persistent villain on TV.



And he basically did the same character on Continuum but with access to advanced technology!!!!


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## Cli-Fi (Jun 16, 2016)

Movies: I always had a soft spot for Magneto from X-Men. Thought he was really well rounded and knew what he wanted. One of the best modern day villains in scifi cinema.

TV: I'd have to go with Star Trek's Gul Dukat. The guy was a complex psychopath of the best kind. A futuristic version of Hitler who reinvented himself for the sole purpose of power whenever he could get away with it.

I don't tend to read a lot of books that have a specific villain that is personified in one character.


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## BAYLOR (Jul 16, 2016)

Cli-Fi said:


> Movies: I always had a soft spot for Magneto from X-Men. Thought he was really well rounded and knew what he wanted. One of the best modern day villains in scifi cinema.
> 
> TV: I'd have to go with Star Trek's Gul Dukat. The guy was a complex psychopath of the best kind. A futuristic version of Hitler who reinvented himself for the sole purpose of power whenever he could get away with it.
> 
> I don't tend to read a lot of books that have a specific villain that is personified in one character.



Gul Dukat is easily one the most interesting villains to come out of the Star Trek universe.


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## BAYLOR (Jul 16, 2016)

reiver33 said:


> *Lucas Buck* from American Gothic



He was a terrific villain. I wish viewers hd given this show a chance.


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## Phyrebrat (Jul 16, 2016)

BAYLOR said:


> He was a terrific villain. I wish viewers hd given this show a chance.



Viewers did give it a chance; it was the network that killed it by randomly releasing episodes regularly out of order. It was well received. 

pH


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## ThomasG (Jul 21, 2016)

The Mule, Foundation.


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## psikeyhackr (Feb 18, 2018)

*The Major* in Daemon by Danial Suarez

But you don't learn how bad he really is until the 2nd book *Freedom*.

Pragmatic sadism with complete indifference.

psik


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## Luiglin (Feb 18, 2018)

Herem (Turiya), Jehannum (Moksha) and Sheol (Samadhi) - the Ravers from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.


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## Pyan (Feb 18, 2018)

The New Firm. Mr Pin and Mr Tulip from _The Truth_, by Sir Terry Pratchett.


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## WarriorMouse (Feb 18, 2018)

Phyrebrat said:


> Viewers did give it a chance; it was the network that killed it by randomly releasing episodes regularly out of order. It was well received.
> 
> pH


So, Just like Fox did with Firefly then!


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## paranoid marvin (Feb 20, 2018)

Ohh, there's a few favourites. Mr Wint and Mr Kidd from Diamonds are Forever for their one liner double act. Obadiah from Sharpe from being a complete nutter. Ratched and Umbridge for being sugary-sweet villains that you just hate.

Avon I don't see as a villain. He does things that are morally dubious and he's untrustworthy, but he 's been put into a situation where he's trying to survive; and you don't survive if you put others first.

Best villain of all is Dick Dastardly, a villain so inept ,yet so persistant that you want to see him come out on top just once


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## WarriorMouse (Feb 20, 2018)

paranoid marvin said:


> Obadiah from Sharpe from being a complete nutter.


Obadiah was a nutter but I thought that Colonel whats his name was far worse a villain than Obadiah. Mainly because the Colonel was a total coward as well as evil.


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## HanaBi (Mar 20, 2018)

Scorpius from Farscape, and Q from STNG, were my favourite "bad" guys. They were not evil or overly sadistic bad guys, but had an irresistible charm that was totally beguiling.


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## Cathbad (Apr 7, 2018)

*Count Olaf*!!


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## BAYLOR (Nov 17, 2019)

In the Warhammer 40 k universe ,  Horus.


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## nixie (Nov 17, 2019)

Cybermen scared me more than the daleks.

The White Witch from The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe.

Cruella De Vil, from 101 Dalmations.

As an adult there has been numerous villains who give me the shivers but one really stands out Scott R Barker's Kellhus, he really does creep me out.


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## Juliana (Nov 17, 2019)

Ooh, thread resurrection. I think one of the best villains I've seen in the past few years was David Tennant's Kilgrave in season 1 of Jessica Jones. What I love about him is his absolute conviction that he's 100% right all the time. He doesn't see himself as a villain, and it's so chilling and so wonderfully done.


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## The Big Peat (Nov 17, 2019)

Off the top of my head, its probably the Moidart from David Gemmell's Ravenheart/Stormrider. Chilling composure, openly malevolent, seemingly in control of everything, and big style points.


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## Danny McG (Nov 17, 2019)

I always shuddered at Evil Edna (the walking television witch) from Willo the Wisp Willo the Wisp - Wikipedia


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## Luiglin (Nov 17, 2019)

Lord Foul from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and Shadwell from Weaveworld. The former, a character of hatred left always in the shadows, a presence felt more by his minions and machinations than he himself. The latter, a well written character that starts out as a sidekick and ends up as the main piece.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 17, 2019)

Luiglin said:


> Lord Foul from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant and Shadwell from Weaveworld. The former, a character of hatred left always in the shadows, a presence felt more by his minions and machinations than he himself. The latter, a well written character that starts out as a sidekick and ends up as the main piece.



Agreed, he's terrific villain.  He reminds me a bit of Suaron in LOTR.


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## Ian Fortytwo (Nov 17, 2019)

Gollum, from The Lord of the Rings, or Smaug from The Hobbit, of course there are the myriad of Orcs/Goblins from either. And then there is Sauron.


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## Vince W (Nov 17, 2019)

Burke, Carter J. He'd screw his own grandmother over for a percentage.


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## psikeyhackr (Nov 21, 2019)

My vote for the best TV Sci-Fi villain

Kai, Winn


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## CupofJoe (Nov 21, 2019)

Satan from Old Harry's Game.
A claymation of scenes from the show can be seen here.


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## Vince W (Nov 21, 2019)

Eldon Tyrell. Created a race of slaves.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 21, 2019)

Vince W said:


> Eldon Tyrell. Created a race of slaves.



And he got his comeuppance at the hands of one of his creations.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 21, 2019)

psikeyhackr said:


> My vote for the best TV Sci-Fi villain
> 
> Kai, Winn
> 
> View attachment 57969



Loved power above everything .


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## Vince W (Nov 21, 2019)

BAYLOR said:


> And he got his comeuppance at the hands of one of his creations.


Poetic justice?


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## BAYLOR (Nov 21, 2019)

Vince W said:


> Poetic justice?



In this case yes. He may have been a genius  in his field but, he  was also an  incredibly arrogant and  foolish  man.  Tyrel  was too stupid to see the gravity of the situation he was with this particular Replicant. Dashing Replicants  hopes for a longer life cost Tyrel not only his life ,but the life of his former employee.


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## AlexH (Nov 21, 2019)

The Demon Headmaster scared me as a kid. It's just been rebooted on the BBC, and I'm tempted to watch. I remember a scene where The Demon Headmaster tripped over when chasing kids and got back up to chase them again. The trip wasn't scripted and the actor just carried on.


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## CupofJoe (Nov 22, 2019)

BAYLOR said:


> In this case yes. He may have been a genius  in his field but, he  was also an  incredibly arrogant and  foolish  man.  Tyrel  was too stupid to see the gravity of the situation he was with this particular Replicant. Dashing Replicants  hopes for a longer life cost Tyrel not only his life ,but the life of his former employee.


I don't see him as foolish or stupid. Arrogant  - oh my YES!
I think he knew he was dead as soon as he saw Batty.
But I think in that final speech he was trying to get Batty to see that life is a trade off. no-one can have it all. He could have designed them to have had long lonely miserable human lives. But no, he designed them to burn far brighter and be able to do far more for just a few year. 
That is why Batty has his speech... He gets it at the end. He doesn't like it and wants to fight on [how very human of him] but he wants someone else to know that he mattered.


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## Ray Zdybrow (Jan 7, 2020)

Wot, no Severus Snape!


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## tegeus-Cromis (Jan 7, 2020)

My favorite F and SF does not have villains, actually.


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 7, 2020)

Ray Zdybrow said:


> Wot, no Severus Snape!



He's not a villain, he's a hero.


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## olive (Jan 7, 2020)

The elf queen in the Lords and Ladies. Granny's twin Lilith. I hate them both.

But the Joker... It's human, it is real. The scariest one.


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## Guttersnipe (Jan 8, 2020)

Kroenen from the first Hellboy movie. He's a Nazi, but he's also a badass. Also: not quite sure if he's a typical villain, but I really like Frankenstein's monster (as in the novel rather than the films). The Joker and Bane from the recent Batman franchise make me really hate them, but I guess that's what a good villain is supposed to do. But there are characteristics that I like about them, like their voices; I don't think any other actors could've portrayed them better.


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## Lew Rockwell Fan (Jan 8, 2020)

The shark scientist in _Saturn's Race_ by Niven & Barnes.  Because, like Milton's Satan, was he _really_ a villain?


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## MaxiPower (Feb 22, 2020)

I'm really liking Dracula in the Castlevania anime. Yes, its a sort of tropey lost revenge story but the performance from the voice actor and the animators is top notch.


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## Danny McG (Feb 23, 2020)

Guttersnipe said:


> The Joker and Bane from the recent Batman franchise make me really hate them, but I guess that's what a good villain is supposed to do. But there are characteristics that I like about them, like their voices; I don't think any other actors could've portrayed them better


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## The Big Peat (Feb 24, 2020)

Brian G Turner said:


> He's not a villain, he's a hero.



I always feel ambivalent about this one. He's a straight up villain for most of the series and the last minute heroic reveal doesn't really excuse the majority of what he did. He's one of my favourite characters in the series but I struggle with calling him either of those things unadulterated with the other. And antihero doesn't really seem to cover it either.


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