# Britons ignorant of UK history



## The Master™ (Aug 5, 2004)

This is a damning report on the state of history lessons taught in British schools (and maybe British schools abroad)...  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3537162.stm


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## Brian G Turner (Aug 5, 2004)

On who defeated the Armada:



> while 6% thought it was Tolkien's wizard Gandalf.


 

 I think that suggests that for at least some of the questions, some people were mucking about.


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## Esioul (Aug 5, 2004)

I remember they kept insisting on me drawing my timelines to scale, and I never could. They couldn't understand that my brain doesn't do maths.


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## dwndrgn (Aug 5, 2004)

I'd guarantee that the American ones wouldn't do any better.  It seems that education has taken a backseat to everything else.  Very sad really.


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## Esioul (Aug 5, 2004)

There's a lot of emphasis on maths and English now over anything else.


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 6, 2004)

Most people are thick.  You have to remind yourself of this fact from time to time.


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## Esioul (Aug 6, 2004)

I don't need to. All I need to do is look at an analogue clock and realise I don't have a clue what it says to know that.


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 6, 2004)

Tremendous.


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## The Master™ (Aug 6, 2004)

Ah, the youth of today... And the unfortunate thing is, some of those people are in their 30's... DAMN!!!


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## Esioul (Aug 6, 2004)

I'm still youth I think.... well, I never could tell analogue time, learn my times tables or subtract or even add very well. They tested me at college and said it was pointless me even trying.


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 6, 2004)

Were you born in Sunderland?


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## nemogbr (Aug 6, 2004)

Well, if we don't learn from history and learn correctly we will make the same mistakes.

It is sad that we don't learn this anymore.

I saw a documentary once of Japanese teenagers who didn't know of the events of the second world war.


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## The Master™ (Aug 6, 2004)

They say that ignorance is bliss, but damn, a lot of these people musy be the most blissful in the world...

What is the point in teaching people about recent history, they might find out somethings that aren't very nice - so teach them happy things!!! 

I shall endeavour to teach my son, as he grows up, about the history of the country he lives in - and general world history... For the entire world - where applicable...

I would consider it a personal insult to myself, if he fails to learn about history, because I failed him???


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## Esioul (Aug 6, 2004)

No, I did not grow up in Sunderland... I grew up in Cambridge. Is there irony in that? So much for Cambridge's reputation. Well, I was in all the bottom sets in school, so no one must expect much wit from me.


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## The Master™ (Aug 6, 2004)

Don't put yourself down, luv... You hold your own on here (wit-wise)... And with you doing Archaeology, you must have an interest in history...

Lacey is only having a go at Sunderland, because he is closest to it... He knows nowt about Cambridge (or its reputation)...


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## littlemissattitude (Aug 6, 2004)

Well, I know that here in the States, the woeful lack of knowledge about history is at least partly to do with the fact that in the schools everyone is concerned that the students learn higher math, but nobody really thinks that history is important.  It's just a bunch of dead guys, after all, is their reasoning.

Frustrates me.  I love history.  I can see the connections between the past and the present, and my personal perspective is that knowing what happened in the past puts what is happening now into context.  Case in point: There's a huge controversy right now about a nasty campaign ad against John Kerry by a group of men who claim to have served with him in Vietnam (although part of the controversy has to do with whether at least some of them really served _with_ him or just served in Vietnam at the same time he was there).  There are all kinds of allegations made that he has lied about his military record and I don't know what all.  If people had an historical perspective that this sort of character assassination ads in campaigns goes back at least to the election of 1884, between Grover Cleveland and James G. Blaine, they might look at such ads a little more critically.  Or maybe not.  But there is at least a chance that knowledge of this would make people aware that not everything they see and hear in political ads is strictly true.


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## The Master™ (Aug 6, 2004)

Your description reminds me of "Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure"... "Dead French dude, dude"... Really good description of Napoleon...


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 7, 2004)

I know quite a bit about Cambridge actually.  A recent report stated that the people of Sunderland had the worst numeracy skills in Europe.  (Geordies hate Mackems and all that...)  I would never pick on Lou.  I was in all of the top classes at school, where did that get me?  I look after retards for a living!  The irony is there for all to see...


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## Esioul (Aug 7, 2004)

Perhaps I should move to Sunderland, then I would be in much better company- this place is crawling with maths professors. 

Sorry, I was being a bit negative yesterday, didn't intend to accuse people of picking on me, but I'm happy now becaus emy best friend came back from her holidays and we're planning a few shopping trips and nights out. In Cambridge. Well, it's better than this village. 

I was in all bottom sets, and we didn't learn a lot because of the behaivour of people. It's not very nice to call people retards, Peter. Because I was very shy at secondary school and didn't dare speak to many people when they spoke to me they said I was a retard and it upset me.


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 7, 2004)

Sorry.  I look after people with learning disabilities, who subsequently used to be called retards until the Seatle sickness crossed the Atlantic.  They use to call them flids when I was younger, but that was never an accepted term...


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## Esioul (Aug 7, 2004)

Terms like that always change, they somehow eventually become insults and need to be changed.


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 8, 2004)

Natural stigmas.  All they are doing is adding more ammo to shoot them down.  West coast American Dykes have a lot to answer for!


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 15, 2005)

Ah....I occasionally teach children....

Fantastic...

Yet further proof that we are sliding inexorably into barbarism......

Will the last person vacating education please turn off the light...yes....that's right....it's the big glowing thing...no...not that....that's the sun you can't turn that out....ah...also no...that's the moon....


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## Lacedaemonian (Feb 15, 2005)

Funny.


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## Alexa (Feb 16, 2005)

I believe a teacher has the power to make you love or hate his class. My history teacher was in love with history, especially the antiquity period. So, she made me love this period, too. On the contrary, all my maths profs were there without really knowing to explain their lessons and they gave us very difficult exercices in the exam periods. The result was I always hated maths.

A teacher into a class where his only purpose is the salary at the end of the month or to have a job of any kind, should be directed to another domain of activity.


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 17, 2005)

A good teacher is important, unfortunately they are few and far between and with the rise in moronic classroom behavious amongst children it is very easy for that passion to become lost in an apathy of being unable to control a class.
All my students are private so I have much more control over the situation that a school teacher.

As for a salary at the end of the month, I think that is what the government are trying to encourage int he UK at the moment due toa shortfall of teachers.


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## polymorphikos (Feb 17, 2005)

I'm going to be a teacher. I'm signed-up for courses and everything.



The landscape of the future is a bleak and rainswept place.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Feb 17, 2005)

Cambridge is a nice place (lived there for a few years) but it has it's fair share of idiots too. 
There's a "performance artist" who walks (or did when I was there) up and down Mill Road with various objects tied to his head - my favourite was a loaf of bread.
I'm not making this up!! 

But there's plenty of chav's (not sure if that will translate to the yanks) in all major cities in the Uk I'm sad to say, and that's where the majority of the ignorance lies.
Whenever you get children more interested in what band's on top of the pops or which "celebrity" from Big Brother has an eating disorder, you're not going to be able to interest them in much else - because they don't care!!

The gradual decline (and it has been gradual) in our education standards has been going on for some time and it just seems that these days, it's children who run the classrooms not teachers.
My heart goes out to all you would-be teachers, because if you work in a state-run high school you have got a serious challenge in front of you!
In my school (and I'm 28! I can only imagine it's gotten worse) we had a 14 yr old student punch a teacher, get expelled and was back in 3 weeks!
Another student had his hair set on fire with a aerosol & a lighter (during french class)

Good luck!
p.s. Lacey - Sundeland! LOL - ~"where everybody knows your name.......because you're related"~


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 17, 2005)

State run school has become quite a joke. I know a lot of educated people who don't have the resources for private schooling who have opted to educate their children at home!

On a separate note....what exactly is a Chav?

I don't watch TV, but I'm guessing that it refers to the great ignorant masses....a little clearer definition would be nice though...


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## Winters_Sorrow (Feb 17, 2005)

well, they're usually spotted by their Burberry clothing (think beige tartan), cheap looking chunky gold jewellery (soverign rings for boys & huge earrings for girls) and usually talk in a non-sensical drawl. I enclose a newcastle derivative:

"De yee knaa who I knaa?" - literal translation "Do you know the type of people I know? They'll cause you extreme pain if you mess with me"

Basically stupid people who strut around drinking cheap lager thinking they are really tough, not realising their error until sadly too late.
Always amusing to watch, though


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## Princess Ivy (Feb 17, 2005)

I'm not that worried about the kids in the statistics, but rather that history is in such disfavour. kids are as they have always been. they learn what interests them. And it seems few want to learn history. My daughter hates it, from the stand point that she is a sensitive nine year old and tales of serfs and dungeons and battles upset her.
What worries me is the brevity of the history ciriculum. I can only speak from a south african education standpoint, as i didn't grow up here. but I can say that we were only taught a very sanitised version of the full picture.
EG: egypt was ruled by a phaero (SP), they had gods ra, horis, osiris. they wrapped their dead in shrouds and put them in pyramids. And of course the details of mumification.
WW1 &2 were started by the evil germans. the alies were the good guys. we beat them. ww2 had very evil policies towards jews.
the english were very bad, wouldn't give the irish back their island and wouldn't give the settlers their land. therefore the good settlers went out and fought the british and established a new colony in the free state on their way to natal. where they then made peace with the zulus (yes they had to kill a few hundred thousand of them and start the war before they could make peace but that was niether here nor there)
get the picture? there is so much more to these stories. things i am still learning today! i suppose history is a very wide subject, but they could really do with selecting the incidents that they want to teach and teaching them properly.
I would love to have the time to study history properly. i am genuinely fascinated by it. i read as much as i can (no not historical novels). and one day i will go into it indepth, when i have the time.


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 17, 2005)

Ah, I get it now. We used to call them 'Gippo's but I suppose they have elevated the original 'gippo's simply by coming into existence.
By 'Gippo' I don't mean Gypsy, my lady is half Romany and they are a very different people.

We occasionally get 'Chavs' coming into the martial arts class I teach...they tend not to come back.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Feb 17, 2005)

I always enjoyed history at school (probably for the reasons you daughter didn't like them!  ) but you've reminded me of an issue I hadn't considered before - regional/country bias.
I don't remember much about the Irish-English wars led by William of Orange (who was dutch, but our king - weird) but I seem to remember he originally went across as the Irish protestants were being persecuted by the majority catholics and a local 'king' appealed for help. Admittedly once over there, I think the English troops did not behave particularly well to anyone, allies included!

But it is interesting what emphasis is put on events from different countries


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 17, 2005)

I had half of my secondary education in South Africa and half here, and at least they actually taught some form of interesting history in SA. When I arrived here it was all about the European Union and post war Europe...which although interesting was really sociology in disguise.

I literally took my history education in my own hands and read and researched into what I wanted to know. Not the sanitised version taught today.

On a separate note...as this post seems to be more of a gripe than anything else...does anyone else hate the sanitised nursery rhymes?

I don't think kids are as they have always been. 
They are quicker to give up now and they seem to have no 'heart', they are pandered to and there is almost no discipline in a average childs life.

It shows in other areas, I teach martial arts (amongst other things) and where I remember having to literally go through 'Sweat, blood and tears' to get anywhere, now if they stub a toe they want to sit down for the rest of the lesson.

It doesn't bode well for the future, and it reeks of a growing decadence within society as a whole.
In the Uk especially we have become very complacent and it shows. 
For the last few decades if you can't get a job when you leave school then you simply sign on a dotted line and recieve a government handout.

In terms of knowing our history, decadence and falling standards within a society have almost always been indicators that that society is about to collapse in some fashion.


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## polymorphikos (Feb 17, 2005)

Meh.


As to our classes, our history is not at all sanitised, being from Australia as I am. We learned a long and doom-laden tale of our unpleasantness towards Aborigines, a long and doom-laden tale of the idiocy on both sides leading to WW2, and an awful lot about sheep.


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## Tsujigiri (Feb 17, 2005)

polymorphikos said:
			
		

> Meh.
> 
> 
> As to our classes, our history is not at all sanitised, being from Australia as I am. We learned a long and doom-laden tale of our unpleasantness towards Aborigines, a long and doom-laden tale of the idiocy on both sides leading to WW2, and an awful lot about sheep.



I think that older kids should be exposed to far more of the realism of history but it's just not going to happen.

My daughter was chastised for stopping a fellow student from kicking her in the face last week!
Of course the fact that she dumped him on his arse may have had something to do with it, still self defence though!

Seriously tho.....with your expertise about sheep....velcro wellies, cliff edges or sheer strength of bicep


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Eh, I always liked history myself- it's one of my GCSE subjects (for Americans a qualification taken at 16.) I always knew more about torture than the teacher which was quite funny, as I discussed it at length.

History always fascinated me, but these days people don't aim to make it interesting. I was planning on studying World War 2 Germany, Russia or possibly the USA. All of these were fascinating courses. They got shut down though and replaced with medicine, Northern ireland and the American West, all exceptionally boring. I've gone from being an avid student with all the details about wars, to a lethargic, bored out of mind slug 

But I'd say most UK people knew a fair bit, and in early years teaching is fairly good especially with the Wars as there is huge scope for different projects


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

Such lack of _Grace_.  Schools do not understand the concept 'self defense'.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Agreed there. Smacking someone in the face got me told off  Dunno why


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 9, 2005)

I'm teaching my 6 years old daughter wrist locks, point striking (pressure points) and koppo Jutsu - Bone Destruction techniques aimed at incapacitating an adult.

But then she has been training since she was 2 and I trust her not to use them.

She was being bullied by one specific shil at school, and when I asked her why she hadn't dealt with him she answered:

'It wouldn't be right to hurt him Daddy, he hasn't had any training'

I was incredibly impressed. Buddhist philosophy from a (then) 5 year old!

I helped her get over her inhibitions regarding this particular child when I heard he was known as a bully.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Wow. It would be so cool if I had you as a parent. I was barely allowed to punch people when I was little. Though when I got into a street fight by accident, I held my own.


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

Ah but when you are running up and down steps all day with huge pots of water on your head, you'd be thinking he is the worst dad in the multiverse.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

I dunno. Sounds better than cleaning the garden. And at least I'd be able to defend myself if I ever get into a real fight


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 9, 2005)

I started training her little brother last week 

He's 18 months old and very cute. I'm teaching him how to fall over without hurting himself on the premise that if I can make it second nature at this age he will never forget it.

It worked for his sister


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Aww dammit. Can I be your child lol?


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

He's only 18 months old and you are teaching him martial arts.  You should be reading him poetry and taking drugs.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Bad poetry ^^


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

The Romantics wrote some dire stuff but on the whole it was an excellent period for poetry.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

Oh I don't know. I like teenage angst myself 

Actually Tolkien did it for me, and of course Walter de le Mare


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

There is a Face whose Blushes tell
Affection's tale upon the cheek,
But pallid at our fond farewell,
Proclaims more love than words can speak.​Lord Byron.​


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

0_0. I was thinking 'The Stranger' but never mind.


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

*I was sitting.
I was resting.
I was taking a break 
from the day's chores.
I was thinking.
I was praying.
For all I had done
there was so much more.
He was strolling
down my driveway.
He looked so familiar
as he ventured near.
I stood up
so as to greet him.
Though he was a stranger
I felt no fear.
I knew him.
Yes, I knew Him.
The smile on His face
made it all so clear.
I was shaking.
I was crying.
He took my hand, said,
"Relax. I am here."* ​Rosemarie E. Bishop​


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 9, 2005)

I read to him regularly


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

Wagner and the likes?


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 9, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> Aww dammit. Can I be your child lol?



You're making me feel old...go away


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

33.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 9, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> 33.



Ok, who's fingers and toes did you borrow to get to that number


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

Neil and Tracy's.  Who both will consequently not be training tonight.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

I wonder why not? The true Buddhist lives through all


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 9, 2005)

True being the operative word.


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## Amber (Apr 9, 2005)

I still wanna be your child  If it makes you feel better you can say you were a precocious 8 year old when you had me, and say you're 24


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## zorcarepublic (Apr 13, 2005)

I actually tend to like history, but my main area of concentration tends to be naval affairs in the late 19th century.


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## Amber (Apr 13, 2005)

Ah. I would say Patrick O Brian but I think that thats the wrong era. I do like his naval books though


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## Drachir (Apr 25, 2005)

Welcome to the club.  Ignorance of the past seems to be a common characteristic of most nations.  American talk show host often interviews members of the American public to display their complete lack of knowledge about the histroy of the United States.  As a Canadian I wish i could brag about Canada's population, unfortunately Canadians seem just as ignorant of their history as everyone else.  That is probably why politicians have such an easy time fooling the voters again and again.    I wish it were otherwise, but until more citizens take a greater interest in what is going on, both past and present, governments and nations are going to continually make mistakes that could have been easily avoided.


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## zorcarepublic (Apr 25, 2005)

Well, most people equate history with boring, mainly because for ages history teachers have taught history in the most mind-numbing way possible. Happily, I was able to be interested in history before school got hold of me...

Although I am ignorant of many areas of history (and possibly will remain so until Im 80), I do know the basics of political history and I do take an interest in politics...


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## nixie (May 6, 2005)

The schools gloss over British history,but by doing this they are ignoring a culture that shaped a lot of the world .I know the we have a lot to be ashamed of but we also have a lot to be proud of as well. They teach about the Roman Empire but treat the British Empire like a dirty little secret.We should be proud of our history.


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## Eradius Lore (May 10, 2005)

This is stupid the people who where part of the testing must have been from Looney asylums or Cardiff. I and most of the people i am friends with take an active interest in history and think it is an insult that This small majority of people represent the rest of the UK.


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