# If Stalin had never come to power....



## AE35Unit (Jun 3, 2009)

I watched a documentray earlier on the secret airplnes that nearly came out of the soviet union, including an early jet engine invented independantly by the russians in 1938, a flying Tank and a submarine airplane. They even had a stealth plane that used plastic rather than wood thus rendering the plane invisible!
There also was a huge plane that flew from russia to america called the ANT 21 I think, as well as a small rocket powered fighter that would surely have proved decisive. After mucking about with rockets and realising it wasnt the answer they developed the Ramjet, which basically uses two types of engine, a rocket and a jet, the rocket only becoming active once the plane was in flight. (All this was in the late 30s/mid 40s!)
The biggest surprise tho for me was seeing the TU-44 which is a Concorde clone. At first you think, ah they copied the design(its even known as the Concorsky) but in fact the design was theirs, specifically Tupolev's. But because the country was 'ruled by a man scared of flying' none of these ideas were developed!

(Its status is still under development according to the Wiki)
The thing is though all these plans were doomed because of one man,Joseph Stalin who ruled with an iron fist and didnt trust his own scientists. So much so that many were held in a kind of prison factory, threatened with shooting if they didnt work! Later he ordered a lot of his scientists to be shot as he believed they were secretly working for the other side(there were many other sides back then)
The sad thing is one of their designs DID get to fly and fight in the war,albeit too late to be decisive, but it was given to the Nazis and became the Meschersmidt ME 262(I used to have an airfix model of one!)

When Stalin died there was a new found freedom and the desinger of the flying tank actually got to finish a design, and it became the Antanov(i forgot the number of this one).

Amazing stuff really!


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## Arwena (Jul 30, 2009)

History's lesson is that dictators carry in their own rule the seeds of their own failure.  Unable to appreciate the talents of others, they dall victim to their own weaknesses.


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## Jardax (Feb 15, 2010)

There was a mortal combat inside the Red party always so if there was someone who was able to defeat Stalin, the situation could be even worse, Stalin was extreme beast so i cannot imagine what can be if there was someone with "even better skills"...


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## The Ace (Feb 15, 2010)

My ex mother-in-law'd be stuck for a role model.


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## Pyan (Feb 16, 2010)

AE35Unit said:
			
		

> The biggest surprise tho for me was seeing the TU-44 which is a Concorde clone. At first you think, ah they copied the design(its even known as the Concorsky) but in fact the design was theirs, specifically Tupolev's. But because the country was 'ruled by a man scared of flying' none of these ideas were developed!



This seems a bit odd - Stalin died in 1953, and the Tupolev Tu-144 first flew in 1968, fifteen years later. 

I would find it hard to believe Stalin's fear of flying had any influence on the development of the aircraft...


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## J-WO (Feb 17, 2010)

Its been estimated that if all of Stalin's victims had lived, the population of Russia could be almost as much as three times its current number. Staggering.


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## AE35Unit (Feb 18, 2010)

pyan said:


> This seems a bit odd - Stalin died in 1953, and the Tupolev Tu-144 first flew in 1968, fifteen years later.
> 
> I would find it hard to believe Stalin's fear of flying had any influence on the development of the aircraft...


Yea the plane flew after stalin but it was being developed while he was alive, but at that time  it was surpressed! It was only after his death it was allowed to be built, too late!


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## reiver33 (May 3, 2010)

Probably the only other 'personality' who could have led the Soviet Union after Lenin was Trotsky. However, he had been effectively sidelined due to his 'world revolution, now' philosophy which would have placed an intolerable burden on the economy. Lacking Stalin's 'zeal' in enforcing the 5-year plans the USSR under Trotsky wouldn't have developed its industrial base to anything like the same degree by the outbreak of WW2. 

However, it is likely that his particular brand of interventionism in support of 'spontaneous uprisings' would have precipitated some degree of conflict with neighbouring countries – in particular Poland – although it may have tipped the German revolution against the Freicorps and similar reactionary forces, leading to a communist regime.  

No Stalin, no Hitler?


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## J-WO (May 3, 2010)

Would such a heavily communist Europe have led to a counter-swing in Britain, ie- Oswald Moseley as PM?


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## reiver33 (May 4, 2010)

I think the Establishment in Britain was so anti-Communist that any potential shift to the right would have been absorbed and/or cushioned by the mainstream parties. Assuming no Nazi Germany and a more interventionist USSR then the nationalist uprising in Spain would have been defeated regardless of what assistance Italy could give. The big question would be what way France jumped, given the large reactionary/nationalist faction versus the active Communist party - which would have been further emboldened by a 'fraternal' Germany.


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## iansales (May 4, 2010)

A ramjet isn't a rocket and a jet engine together, it's a type of jet engine which relies on the speed of the aircraft to compress the air entering the combustion chamber.

The Me262 started development in 1939, before the outbreak of war, so it's unlikely it was based on a Soviet design. 

Did this documentary also claim that many of Stalin's scientists had been kidnapped by aliens in flying saucers?


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## reiver33 (May 4, 2010)

Those would be the Nazi flying saucers operating from their secret Antarctic base, until they decamped to the moon ahead of Admiral Perry's 1946 task force (in the guise of a research expedition). No, really, it's true...


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## Vladd67 (May 4, 2010)

I saw this programme as well and did feel that the programme makers made some bold claims for these aircraft. Here is a link to a forum discussing this topic.
Secret soviet aircraft designs
Here is the first part.


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## iansales (May 4, 2010)

reiver33, that would by Admiral Byrd, who the Nazis invited to join the Third German Antarctic Expedition in 1938, during which they allegedly found hot underground springs and built secret bases around them. Admiral Byrd returned to Antarctica in 1946 in Operation High Jump, which was an attack on the secret Nazi bases.

There were also reports of lizardmen from inside the hollow Earth helping the Nazis.


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## reiver33 (May 10, 2010)

Admiral Perry, Admiral Byrd - what's in a name! I bet they were never seen in the same room together...


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## J-WO (May 10, 2010)

Have I stumbled on the website for the Illuminati?


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