# Reliability of I.Q. test



## logan_run (Aug 28, 2020)

I took a  i.q. test and scored  81.i think it ahold be higher.I like classical music and history how reliable are iq. test?


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## Astro Pen (Aug 28, 2020)

A few years back I was tested by a psychologist as 128 which, given the number of mistakes I have made in life, suggests that it doesn't mean as much as people think it does 
Your engaging with the expressive power of music and the pattern learning from history will serve you better. Emotional intelligence is also important in our highly social world.
ps Whatever, use proper proper psychometric resources, never rely on magazine quizes or youtube 'what's your IQ' vids.


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## CupofJoe (Aug 28, 2020)

Unless an IQ test is given in a clinical or diagnostic setting, then the value of the answer is little more than useless.
Even if given by a correctly and well trained individual and in the best of circumstances there can be a large variation in the values returned. Between people and between tests. And not all tests are equal.
A few years ago as part of a selection procedure I did several IQ tests over several days. And apparently my IQ rose 30+ over the week. Now, I'm good, but not that good!


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## thaddeus6th (Aug 28, 2020)

I went through a phase some years ago of doing tons of online tests. My IQ varied by something like 30-40 points I think.

I'd also add that IQ can also be overrated in terms of importance, so I wouldn't encourage people to either get carried away if they have a high one, or feel despondent if they have a lower one.


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## -K2- (Aug 28, 2020)

I'm so old they gave me this one:






But, when I found out they weren't serving scotch between each part, I got mad and left. No booze...what do they think I am, stupid?
What kind of bar is this? Clearly, I'm a genius 

Now hold my beer and watch me jam a crayon up my nose  See, I'm talented too!

K2


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## Astro Pen (Aug 28, 2020)

-K2- said:


> Now hold my beer and watch me jam a crayon up my nose  See, I'm talented too!
> 
> K2


Your mother will know what you have been up to from the coloured snot on your handkerchief.


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## farntfar (Aug 28, 2020)

My telephone keeps trying to give me a sort of tetris/blocks game where the score you get is supposed to be your IQ.
So 1 game you would be a genius, and the next a simpleton.

Well at least I'm not* that* stupid.


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## farntfar (Aug 28, 2020)

K2.
The answer to the last question is Person Man Woman Camera TV.

You get extra points if you saw that news item repeated enough times that you'll probably never forget it.


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## nixie (Aug 28, 2020)

According to the IQ tests that pop up now and then mine ranges from 110 to 170. I should ignore them along with the stupid quizzes, you know the ones I mean, no one can get 10 out of 10, only a genius can get 90% etc. I tell myself I need to stop falling for the click bait taking you to questions a 10 year old could answer.


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## Narkalui (Aug 29, 2020)

Having high IQ means you're good at taking IQ tests, that is all


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## kythe (Aug 29, 2020)

When I was 13, I had an IQ test with a psychiatrist which showed 108.  My mother is a very difficult person who always put me down.  They say it isn't generally a good idea for people to know their own IQ because then they judge themselves for it (but isn't that the point of the test: for those who administer and other "relevant" people to judge a person?).  I held on to that number during my teenage years as a reminder to myself that I wasn't completely worthless, in spite of my family and environment.

My son had the opposite issue with IQ.  He us autistic and was in Special Ed throughout his school years.  When he was 4 and in public preschool  the school psychologist did an IQ test on him.  His verbal score was 73, spatial reasoning was 79, and math score was 116.  This gives a composite score of 89.

One way to interpret this is to see 89 as within average IQ range (85-115).  Another way to interpret is to look at each score individually and realize none are in average range - he would be expected to struggle with language skills and spatial reasoning and excell at math.  Or you could accept that IQ tests performed on 4 yr olds aren't considered accurate and just throw it out.

None of the above happened.  He did alright in elementary school, but his inclusion specialist (special ed coordinator) in middle school sabotaged him.  She went to his teachers and informed them that he had low IQ and was autistic, so the focus of his education should not be in learning but in behaviors.  This resulted in him frequently being singled out for "behavioral intervention", and teachers occasionally expressing surprise when he understood a concept.

It's never a compliment when someone is surprised at your success.  He fought an uphill battle at school in middle and high school because he felt (sometimes accurately, I think) that teachers were "bullying" him and not acknowledging him when he did something right.  Ultimately, he hates school and now at 18, he lives in a group home with no intention of continuing education.

The real clincher?  He was given another IQ test at age 17 when applying for social security disability.  They did not tell us the results, but the psychologist administering the test said that her preliminary impression was that spatial reasoning was his greatest strength, and he was well above average in that area.  On his first test at age 4, he had scored only 79 in spatial reasoning.  To top it off, he was not approved for SSD based on intellectual disability.  He was approved for autism alone.


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## MikeAnderson (Sep 3, 2020)

I can't even pass a urine test; I keep missing the cup.


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## Matteo (Sep 4, 2020)

Many years ago I tested at 132. But I can't see how these tests are a true indication of one's intelligence - as @Narkalui says, they just mean you're good at taking those type of tests.

On the other hand, they're probably a damn sight more reliable than those dumb MBTI tests  though that's faint praise...


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## Biskit (Sep 4, 2020)

I actually had a fairly positive experience of IQ testing, even if I didn't understand what was going on at the time. So far as I can work out, somewhere around the age of 7, I was tagged as being educationally sub-normal or, in the terminology of the day, thick. This was probably down to the fact that I was slow learning to read, couldn't do arithmetic etc.

Then they gave us a basic IQ test where I scored high. Without that, I would probably have been left in the bin labelled "thick", and I don't think there was much in the way of remedial/special needs teaching at that time. Maybe things would have changed anyway, but I think that that test improved the way I was perceived, and perhaps opened the way for things like being selected as the one to do that daily recording of the school's little weather station.

(And, about that time, I discovered that reading did have uses, that there were interesting books in the school library, suddenly I had a reading age 3-4 years higher than my actual, and _then_ they started teaching us basic geometry and non-decimal number systems, which really clicked for me. 
I still struggle with arithmetic, though.)

The downside of some of those tests is that you can train for them. I took a lot of them between ages 7-11, and had special extra tuition at the school (so, no remedial teaching that I was aware of, but special attention for kids with ability) which improved my scores. Perhaps more modern tests are less biased, but back then there was a certain "mind-set" to them and really what the tutoring helped to do was get me to think the same way as the people setting the questions.


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## Ursa major (Sep 4, 2020)

Biskit said:


> basic geometry and non-decimal number systems, which really clicked for me. I still struggle with arithmetic, though.)


It's only the arithmetic that really counts....




-K2- said:


>


I have no idea what the questions were** (though the score _was_ out of 30), but my father had to do a test to assess his cognitive abilities. He scored, I believe, 6***, thus placing his Alzheimer's in the worst of the three categories. (My mother said that he was almost crying when he heard how badly he'd done. (He wasn't the sort of person who ever shed a tear; it wasn't until much later in the progress of his condition that I first saw him (silently) weeping, and that was when he was well into his 80s.)

Now I'm not sure how useful the measure I'm about to use is for the rest of you, but my father was, before his condition set in, more clever than I am (and more diligent in applying it), so I can see why he was so upset by "failing" the test (as he saw it).


** - I've heard that one of the questions in the UK is the name of whoever is the current UK PM... but whether or not that's more than just a rumour, I don't know.

*** - It may have been 4. (My memory isn't what it used to be....  )


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## The Judge (Sep 4, 2020)

Ursa major said:


> I've heard that one of the questions in the UK is the name of whoever is the current UK PM... but whether or not that's more than just a rumour, I don't know.


That was certainly a question my father was asked when we first took him to the GP as we were worried about his failing memory, but that was a rather rough and ready thing and it's not part of the tests the specialists carry out as far as I'm aware.  The standard tests came on a form and included a memory test as per K2's sheet -- three or four common objects or words which had to be repeated at once and then again after an interval while other tests were carried out.  The one that sticks in my mind, though, as it hadn't occurred to me to be an issue for dementia, was copying an outline drawing.  It wasn't a cube, I don't think, but did involve 3D spatial issues, and strangely, seeing my father make a complete mess of it was actually more upsetting than when he got confused by the other tests or couldn't remember things.


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## Ursa major (Sep 4, 2020)

The Judge said:


> That was certainly a question my father was asked when we first took him to the GP as we were worried about his failing memory


Even setting aside your eyewitness account, that sounds like a much more plausible situation for when such a question might be asked than as part of the formal test for determining a subject's cognitive abilities.


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## The Ace (Sep 5, 2020)

Seeing the adverts for these things, I always thought the first question was;

"Are you thick enough to pay Mensa membership ?"

I know I'm fairly bright (when the citalopram isn't making me fire on 3 cylinders), but my results on these things vary from tree stump to just below genius level, so I take them with a pinch of salt.

Seemingly, though Mum had a bit of a moment at the Doctor's when she couldn't tell him day or date - until Dad pointed out that she's literally never known what day it is, and can't remember dates.


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## J Riff (Sep 5, 2020)

When will cellphone IQ surpass that of their owners? Ya gotta wonder.


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## mosaix (Sep 5, 2020)

Matteo said:


> Many years ago I tested at 132. But I can't see how these tests are a true indication of one's intelligence - as @Narkalui says, they just mean you're good at taking those type of tests.
> 
> On the other hand, they're probably a damn sight more reliable than those dumb MBTI tests  though that's faint praise...



At junior school I was always near the bottom of the class. My ability to remember things was, and is, terrible. This included spelling. (I was once given the strap for mis-spelling 'because' in two consecutive essays - at the age of 8!). I failed most exams or tests that involved remembering facts - or remembering how to spell. Then at age 10 the 11-plus loomed on the horizon and the junior school I attended gave us the chance to try out previous 11-plus tests prior to the real thing. A bit like mocks I suppose. There was a section in the 11-plus exam that's a bit like an IQ test - I loved every bit of it. It was an eye-opener for me - something I could actually do. Of course, I failed my 11-plus went on to secondary modern and discovered geometry! Something that was logical from start to finish with hardly any remembering required.

I did reasonably well in certain subjects at school (not History!) and not long into my first job was given a computer programming aptitude test - 100%. I'd found my calling in life!

In my mid-twenties my IQ registered in the mid 130's. The whole thing is a nonsense. My sister has an IQ of about 115 but has an English degree.


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## -K2- (Sep 6, 2020)

Ursa major said:


> I have no idea what the questions were** (though the score _was_ out of 30), but my father had to do a test to assess his cognitive abilities. He scored, I believe, 6***, thus placing his Alzheimer's in the worst of the three categories. (My mother said that he was almost crying when he heard how badly he'd done. (He wasn't the sort of person who ever shed a tear; it wasn't until much later in the progress of his condition that I first saw him (silently) weeping, and that was when he was well into his 80s.)
> 
> Now I'm not sure how useful the measure I'm about to use is for the rest of you, but my father was, before his condition set in, more clever than I am (and more diligent in applying it), so I can see why he was so upset by "failing" the test (as he saw it).
> 
> ...



Well, I hope you realize I wasn't making sport of the tremendous number of people who suffer cognitive decline, but of my own IQ (and as hinted at in a reply, someone else we all might have heard of).

What you bring up is I think the crux of it in such a situation...one ALL of us I bet will experience. It's bad enough to recognize the loss of what once made the world so clear to us, but the frustration it brings in our daily lives. That frustration, IMO is the worst part.

Many of us use reading glasses now that we're older. For those that do (and don't have them integrated into constantly worn eye wear), you might recognize the frustration of attempting to perform the simplest of tasks you have a thousand times before...but now before you can perform this 5-second task, you have to stop and find your readers. So, physical limitations will vaguely hint at that frustration.

More to the point, as I mentioned in another thread, now that my knowledge is expanding on how to tell the stories I want, I find my _chiseled in stone_ memory eroding--which was something that helped me to cope much of my life. I might not have had an education, but I could recall what I had seen or heard in exacting detail. Well, that's fading fast and is all but gone. In addition, after working so hard to build an extensive vocabulary (as an example), I'm finding that much of what I learned, I'm of late beginning to forget rapidly.

I believe...the reason is oxygen deprivation due to respiratory issues which I refuse to compensate for--recognizing on difficult breathing days I cannot think clearly--but, there is nothing I'm willing to do to change it. So, just as what I finally hoped to accomplish--to simply accomplish something--is within my grasp, I find it slipping away faster than I can do what I want/need.

That frustration I suspect is extremely minor compared to what someone like your father feels. And yet, my petty self-inflicted decline  feels crushing.

So, though 'I *don't know*,' that frustration I suspect is what hurts folks most.

My prayers he can find ways to work around his difficulties.

K2


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## Ursa major (Sep 6, 2020)

-K2- said:


> Well, I hope you realize I wasn't making sport of the tremendous number of people who suffer cognitive decline


It never crossed my mind that you were making sport of anyone, least of all the people you mention. 



-K2- said:


> My prayers he can find ways to work around his difficulties.


Thanks for that, but my father died over a decade ago, so his suffering is well and truly over.


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## JimC (Sep 7, 2020)

"how reliable are iq. test?"

Not very.


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## Overread (Sep 7, 2020)

I forget where I saw it, but I recently saw an interesting video on youtube talking about those butterfly images and the personality tests that people use them with. You know the "tell me what you see" patterns. 

Interestingly it was apparently a very accurate test for diagnosis of some mental disorders/conditions/learning difficulties which proved to be more accurate than a few other tests. The problem was once the idea of the concept took root people started using the tests for all kinds of things way outside of its original design. With a lot more people using them in a more casual way and incorrectly the actual validity of the test diminished greatly.  I believe the end of the video was that there was a professional end, steady move back to the original core research and approach.


I wonder if IQ tests are broadly the same. That behind all the special needs teachers at school and the classifications schools and such like to use them for; if there isn't quite a valid testing system. Just one that's being used outside of its original intention and with people who might not be best trained to make judgement calls on the results. Or with systems designed to produce reliable conclusions without the bias of the person administering the test - ergo its a numbers game which removes the person assessing the test from the conclusion of the results; which might well work for a national program, but might result in less accurate results. 



In the end its clear that if you start doing that kind of test and that kind of thinking you can "boost your intelligence". I believe that "Dr. Kawishama (sp) Brain Training" game is the same sort of thing. You do the same types of study in that game and by doing it over and over your score improves. However its not proven to be making you smarter, its just keeping your mind active within a certain selection of topics.


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## Guttersnipe (Sep 10, 2020)

I was tested about eleven years ago and scored an IQ of 100. Five years ago, I was tested again, this time revealing my IQ to be 122. It probably helped that I started taking anti-seizure and antipsychotic medications. My spatial intelligence in particular has grown quite a bit. I still have problems with memory, motor skills, and mental flexibility, though.


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## -K2- (Sep 10, 2020)

The one thing I'm sure of; 
Is the moment someone spouts their I.Q. as proof of their expertise, intelligence, and knowledge...
They've just told me to not take as gospel, anything they might say.

K2


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## Teresa Edgerton (Sep 11, 2020)

The Judge said:


> That was certainly a question my father was asked when we first took him to the GP as we were worried about his failing memory, but that was a rather rough and ready thing and it's not part of the tests the specialists carry out as far as I'm aware.



In the hospitals around here, if you are taken in an ambulance or if you are waking up from an operation—anytime, I think, the doctors are concerned whether you are actually lucid—they ask three questions: "What is your name?"  "Do you know where you are?"  "Who is our current president?"

So usually I just reel off the right answers.  But one time, several years ago, I had to think about the last one for several seconds before I answered;  I was still a bit woozy from ... whatever it was I was there for.  Finally, I said, "Is it Bush?"  

"That's right," said the doctor.

But what he didn't know was that I was thinking of the wrong Bush when I said it—something which didn't occur to me until some time later.

Which I suppose goes to show that even the simplest seeming test isn't infallible.


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## -K2- (Sep 11, 2020)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> In the hospitals around here, if you are taken in an ambulance or if you are waking up from an operation—anytime, I think, the doctors are concerned whether you are actually lucid—they ask three questions: "What is your name?"  "Do you know where you are?"  "Who is our current president?"
> 
> So usually I just reel off the right answers.  But one time, several years ago, I had to think about the last one for several seconds before I answered;  I was still a bit woozy from ... whatever it was I was there for.  Finally, I said, "Is it Bush?"
> 
> ...



I'm just glad I've not had surgery over the past couple years; 
"K2, hospital," _*begins inconsolably sobbing before launching into a tirade of profanities*_

Yep, they'd of locked me up in the padded room for sure 

K2


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## kythe (Sep 11, 2020)

Heh.  I just had surgery last week.  I spent the first several hours upon waking from anesthesia, convinced there was a raccoon infestation in the recovery room.  Raccoons were getting into the supplies and making such a mess, and I kept telling the staff about them.

I'm glad no one was judging me by my mental acuity at the time.


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## The Ace (Sep 12, 2020)

J Riff said:


> When will cellphone IQ surpass that of their owners? Ya gotta wonder.



About ten years ago in some cases I've met.


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## paranoid marvin (Sep 16, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> Having high IQ means you're good at taking IQ tests, that is all




Truth accepted.


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## Parson (Sep 16, 2020)

IQ tests are hardly worth the paper (screen?) they are printed on. I've scored from 107 -145. In my opinion I have a B- brain. Maybe a touch above average, but nowhere near as strong as a lot of people I know. Brain power is far, far, less important than how you use what you've got.


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## JimC (Sep 16, 2020)

I test in the lower 140s.  Now, I live inside my head side by side with my brain, and I can tell from daily observation it ain't that smart.


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## Ursa major (Sep 16, 2020)

JimC said:


> Now, I live inside my head side by side with my brain, and I can tell from daily observation it ain't that smart.


But what does your brain think of _you_...?


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## JimC (Sep 16, 2020)

That I'm too fat.


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## paeng (Sep 16, 2020)

Try Gould's _The Mismeasure of Man_.


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## Lumens (Sep 16, 2020)

I don't need an IQ test. Like eveybody else, I know I'm more intellignet than the average.


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## -K2- (Sep 17, 2020)

Lumens said:


> I don't need an IQ test. Like eveybody else, I know I'm more intellignet than the average.



mƎ two...

K2


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