# Anyone speak Gaelic?



## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Was watching a documentary on Robert the Bruce presented by the brilliant Neil Oliver, and there were parts where they reenacted how they spoke in those times, in gaelic, with subtitles, and I found it fascinating. Robert was pronounced like Rabbisht, king was pronounced like Rey (similar to  Rex).
Many people in those times spoke in poetry, as most people were illiterate and it was easier to remember the tales if they were in Rhyme.
I found myself interested in the Gaelic languages, and how there is quite a difference between Irish gaelic (pronounced Gay lick) and Scottish (pronounced Gaa lick)


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## worldofmutes (Nov 20, 2021)

Hey, I don’t speak Gaelic, but I do like languages.

I at least can offer a book recommendation about Robert the Bruce. The Bravehearts Chronicles, by author Jack Whyte, begins with The Forest Laird- a tale of William Wallace, and the second book is The Renegade - a tale of Robert the Bruce. I enjoy them, and let me know if you do too.


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## Jo Zebedee (Nov 20, 2021)

fraid not - the Irish language has become so politicised here it’s been removed from my culture, largely. But enough people around me do (especially in the arts community) that I’m familiar with the sound, and know some words.
i do speak with an Ulster-Scots accent and use quite a lot of that dialect and any Gaelic words I do use are in that dialect which is closer to Scots Gaelic than the Irish.
(I‘m Northern Irish, for context)

a couple of great books on lost Gaelic words are ˋ32 words for field´ and, for kids, ´Tree Dogs, Banshee fingers and other lost Irish words´


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## Foxbat (Nov 20, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> Robert was pronounced like Rabbisht,


I wonder if this is originally why we Scots have a habit of calling anybody named Robert Rab?


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> I wonder if this is originally why we Scots have a habit of calling anybody named Robert Rab?


And Robbie Burns is often pronounced as Rabbie Bairns


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

worldofmutes said:


> Hey, I don’t speak Gaelic, but I do like languages.
> 
> I at least can offer a book recommendation about Robert the Bruce. The Bravehearts Chronicles, by author Jack Whyte, begins with The Forest Laird- a tale of William Wallace, and the second book is The Renegade - a tale of Robert the Bruce. I enjoy them, and let me know if you do too.


Just added then to my wishlist on Bookmooch. So William Wallace came just before Robert the Bruce!


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## Foxbat (Nov 20, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> And Robbie Burns is often pronounced as Rabbie Bairns



Too many bairns runnin aboot wi the erse hingin oot their troosers roond here.

Maybe not Gaelic but it’s how we speak in these parts


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## nixie (Nov 20, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> Too many bairns runnin aboot wi the erse hingin oot their troosers roond here.
> 
> Maybe not Gaelic but it’s how we speak in these parts


Makes perfect sense although I'd say weans not bairns.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Bairns is definitely of Scottish origin. Its also used here in the north east


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## nixie (Nov 20, 2021)

It is but I grew up with weans, apart from my granny's cousin she said bairns.


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## Jo Zebedee (Nov 20, 2021)

nixie said:


> It is but I grew up with weans, apart from my granny's cousin she said bairns.


We say wee uns mostly here


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

We say oy, you lot


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## Astro Pen (Nov 20, 2021)

I spent ages trying to translate 
"Rum de rum 'rud a derimo"
from Clannad's wonderful song _Newgrange._
I just read that it has no meaning and was written just for the sounds as "mouth music". 

I still love it though


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## nixie (Nov 20, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> We say oy, you lot


Depending on circumstances it sometimes come out as ya wee.....b


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## Foxbat (Nov 20, 2021)

nixie said:


> Makes perfect sense although I'd say weans not bairns.


I’d guess you’re  a west coaster? A weegie perhaps?
I think weans tends to be west and bairns tends to be east.

Of course, a lot of weans/bairns are also wee bawbags


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Bawbags, lol


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## nixie (Nov 20, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> I’d guess you’re  a west coaster? A weegie perhaps?
> I think weans tends to be west and bairns tends to be east.
> 
> Of course, a lot of weans/bairns are also wee bawbags


Weegie.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Weegie sounds like something window cleaners use


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## Jo Zebedee (Nov 20, 2021)

Astro Pen said:


> I spent ages trying to translate
> "Rum de rum 'rud a derimo"
> from Clannad's wonderful song _Newgrange._
> I just read that it has no meaning and was written just for the sounds as "mouth music".
> ...


Well if it was good enough for James Joyce….


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## G.T. (Nov 20, 2021)

I'm from Dublin and even though I spent 10 yrs being force fed Irish Gaelic in school from 7 to 17 I barely speak a few sentences. I've been trying to get into it again recently and incorporate more Gaelic into my fantasy writing.

King in Irish Gaelic was always Rí for me and pronounced Ree. High King being Ard Rí. I always liked the tales of Brian Boru.



Astro Pen said:


> I spent ages trying to translate
> "Rum de rum 'rud a derimo"
> from Clannad's wonderful song _Newgrange._



Funnily enough, this sounded familiar to me as Irish words. I knew rud was definitely Irish, though I didn't know what it meant and derimo sounds like another word I'd heard from school. Off I went to google and you could translate rud a derimo to "I say something" though it's not grammatically correct, should be Deirim a rud. It would be hilarious if Clannad were just writing the song and stuck "I say something" as a placeholder and left it in, rearranging the Irish to fit the rhyme.


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## Montero (Nov 20, 2021)

Which reminds me - I think it was in the makes you laugh thread - a street sign in Wales, with a long name in Welsh - which was actually a message to the effect "we are out of the office".


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## Valtharius (Nov 20, 2021)

Montero said:


> Which reminds me - I think it was in the makes you laugh thread - a street sign in Wales, with a long name in Welsh - which was actually a message to the effect "we are out of the office".


Let's not forget this gem.


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## Abernovo (Nov 20, 2021)

I went to school with Gaelic speakers, and picked some up myself, through osmosis, and watching Gaelic learning programmes. I lost a lot of it, but I'm doing my best to recover, and improve, it. Tha Ceitidh Mòrag agus BBC Alba dìreach sgoinneil.

Mediaeval Gaelic is different to modern-day Gaelic, just as Middle English, and Early Modern English is different to Modern English, and Middle Scots is different to Modern Scots. Raibeart de/am Brus was a speaker of Middle Scots and Mediaeval Gaelic (Gàidhlig) (both of which were used within the Scottish Court by nobles), and Norman French, with at least some Latin.



Astro Pen said:


> I spent ages trying to translate
> "Rum de rum 'rud a derimo"
> from Clannad's wonderful song _Newgrange._
> I just read that it has no meaning and was written just for the sounds as "mouth music".
> ...


There's quite an old tradition of sounds. A common feature in Scottish Gaelic songs is 'horo'. It has no meaning, as such, but is used in the same way as 'oh oh' in English songs, basically filler, with a touch of emphasis. There's no actual need for the 'O' in 'O Danny Boy', except to create pacing, or rhythm. In a traditional Gaelic song, you may have the boatman singing about crossing the water, 'a horo'. The 'horo' is pacing, perhaps like an oar stroke.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Nov 20, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> I found myself interested in the Gaelic languages


Maith thú @AE35Unit (good on ya), what struck me about the few times I visited Scotland was how similar the language was to Irish, almost identical. Unfortunately my grammar and spelling is even worse in gaelic than it is in english, so there are probably some big differences there. I think the flow and turn of phrase of gaelic lends itself to storytelling, but am sot sure why -maybee a smaller vocabulary.
I think a lot of cultures used poetry to pass on information; like you pointed out it seems like a very human thing to have done, what with the rhyming and imagery. An Roinn Ultra translates from gaelic as 'the ultra department'. Have linked a scéal ficsin ealaíochta, or SF story, I wrote last summer -just to give a rough idea what amateur gaelic sci-fi looks like!
An Radio Crystal


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Having me a drink now, Slàinte!


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## AE35Unit (Nov 20, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Well if it was good enough for James Joyce….


I had a Clannad best of CD, I think it got lost in the move along with a whole box of other CDs and books.
 At one time Enya was part of the group


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## hitmouse (Nov 21, 2021)

Montero said:


> Which reminds me - I think it was in the makes you laugh thread - a street sign in Wales, with a long name in Welsh - which was actually a message to the effect "we are out of the office".


There is a regular humorous line in the Welsh language media of pictures of mistranslated/mangled public signage. The newspaper Golwg has a section of reader- submitted photos, and the are always good ones floating around the Welsh language twitterverse. 

The one you refer to was famous about 10 years ago. Someone from a works unit had emailed a translator for a version of “ road closed , men at work” and thought that the out of office message was the translation. 

This is a recent classic:





Brechu is to vaccinate. Rechu is the verb to fart.


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## The Ace (Nov 21, 2021)

It was Wallace's execution that made Bruce take the gamble to claim the crown (having disposed of John Comyn first).

Personally, if you can find them, I'd go for Nigel Tranter's Bruce trilogy (The Steps to the Empty Thone - ends at his Coronation and the Battle of Methven.  The Path of the Hero King - the guerrilla campaign and Bannockburn.  The Price of the King's Peace - Later reign, Ireland, Treaty of Edinburgh/Northampton, death, and the abortive attempt by Douglas to take his heart on Crusade).

Oh, and my opinions on Kneil Oliver are unprintable - given his views, I'm surprised he had anything positive to say about Bruce and his cause.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 21, 2021)

The Ace said:


> It was Wallace's execution that made Bruce take the gamble to claim the crown (having disposed of John Comyn first).
> 
> Personally, if you can find them, I'd go for Nigel Tranter's Bruce trilogy (The Steps to the Empty Thone - ends at his Coronation and the Battle of Methven.  The Path of the Hero King - the guerrilla campaign and Bannockburn.  The Price of the King's Peace - Later reign, Ireland, Treaty of Edinburgh/Northampton, death, and the abortive attempt by Douglas to take his heart on Crusade).
> 
> Oh, and my opinions on Kneil Oliver are unprintable - given his views, I'm surprised he had anything positive to say about Bruce and his cause.


I like Neil Oliver's programs,  I really like history stuff. I was gonna ask you Ace if yourself speak the language.


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## The Ace (Nov 21, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> I like Neil Oliver's programs,  I really like history stuff. I was gonna ask you Ace if yourself speak the language.


Afraid I don't.

Oliver has a reputation in Scotland that he can look back on 5,000 years of History, yet still claim we aren't a nation.   The addition of the, "K," to his name is a symbol that he's the Establishment's pet Unionist.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 21, 2021)

Ah politics, right over my head. I just like his programs


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## Guttersnipe (Mar 16, 2022)

Tá eagla orm nach bhfuil.


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## Laura R Hepworth (Mar 16, 2022)

I know a little from when I was in school in Ireland before my parents switched to homeschooling us. However, I'd love to learn more. Particularly wanting to learn the Munster dialect of Irish (I'm originally from Cork), but everything I find is for either Connacht, Ulster, or the various attempts to standardize the language   .


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## Danny McG (Mar 18, 2022)

Abernovo said:


> There's no actual need for the 'O' in 'O Danny Boy


I had to read that twice before I understood it. I was thinking "Danny By"


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## Abernovo (Mar 18, 2022)

Danny McG said:


> I had to read that twice before I understood it. I was thinking "Danny By"


Definitely needed in the word "Boy". How else would Broadsword make contact?


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## Guttersnipe (Mar 21, 2022)

Tá ionadh orm nach bhfuil aon duine tar éis ceist a chur orm faoi go fóill.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Mar 21, 2022)

Cén fhadh go raibh eagla ort? -an raibh tú ag smaoineamh ar múinteoir agus bata mór


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## Guttersnipe (Mar 21, 2022)

AnRoinnUltra said:


> Cén fhadh go raibh eagla ort? -an raibh tú ag smaoineamh ar múinteoir agus bata mór


I put this into Google Translate. I got "How long were you afraid? Were you thinking of a teacher and a big stick?"


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## svalbard (Mar 22, 2022)

In Irish there are 32 words for field. Just thought I should drop that in.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Mar 22, 2022)

Guttersnipe said:


> How long were you afraid?


Sorry, bad joke -cén fhadh/why were you afraid. Was letting on the 'eagla nach bhfuil' was because ya hadn't done you homework and you were afraid the teacher was gonna whip out the stick. It used to be a running joke that teachers were over zealous in the way they taught the language (showing my age!)


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## Guttersnipe (Mar 22, 2022)

AnRoinnUltra said:


> Sorry, bad joke -cén fhadh/why were you afraid. Was letting on the 'eagla nach bhfuil' was because ya hadn't done you homework and you were afraid the teacher was gonna whip out the stick. It used to be a running joke that teachers were over zealous in the way they taught the language (showing my age!)


Lol I love it!


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## AE35Unit (Mar 22, 2022)

Guttersnipe said:


> I put this into Google Translate. I got "How long were you afraid? Were you thinking of a teacher and a big stick?"


I got similar when I used the translator built into Chrome on my phone 
"How long were you afraid? -would you think of a teacher and a big stick"


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## AnRoinnUltra (Mar 22, 2022)

AE35Unit said:


> I got similar


Could be my spelling, the auto correct on here hides a lot but doesn't stretch to Irish -cén fadh (literally 'for what reason'), an raibh ('were you', ar mhaith would normally be used for would you). Google translate throws up strange results from time to time. I was working with a lad and figured it's be handy to use it to explain something in Russian -'what is this? this makes no sense' was his reply ...hope it was a technical thing anyway


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