# Please here my plea! plee? something like that



## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

I have a problem. It's been years since I've actually read a storybook, I kind of lost hope in it all. I really need to be enlightened, but I can't find anything in fantasy that suits my taste. Mainly because all I see are the generic "Stereotypical male in full platemail protecting a princess with the 'unique' gift of magic". It annoys me. I'm not saying all books are like that, and I'm not saying I hate men in full platemail, it's a neat idea, but I'd like something different. As in a main male character who's not so rough, and who would maybe be protected instead of act as the protector. Saying it bluntly like this kind of takes away from the joy of discovering it, but like I said I really want a book to read, but that delimma will keep me from getting interested in anything(and I have tried, what a waste of money). 

Now that I re-read that, it sounds really insulting, which I don't mean it like that. 

Enough blabbering, I know this forum wasn't made just for me to ask people for a book to read but I don't know where else to turn. 

Ok I'm done.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 24, 2005)

There is a fair amount of fantasy which doesn't conform to gender stereotypes - try Anne McCaffrey's books, which feature strong heroines for the most part, for starters. Even the lost-my-plot-but-can't-stop-writing marvel, Robert Jordan, doesn't have his female characters simply sit around and wait to be rescued.  George RR Martin and Steven Erikson avoid simple stereotypes too. Jane Yolen, while apprently not so active now, had fantasy stories with strong female characters - I don't believe her excellent novel Sister Light, Sister Dark even had any important male characters in it until near the end. 


I'm sure members who are more familiar with current fantasy can tell you more.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Jun 24, 2005)

Try George R R Martin's Game of Thrones series.
It blew me away when I first read it. Not your typical Swords & Sorcery fantasy novel at all.

Other fantasy books which I think might fit into your model are Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea novels.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Eh, by strong female types do you mean the sibling of the female-sorceress, which is the female-rogue? Eitherway, I said nothing about female characters ^^ I'm looking for a male character I can relate to.

Ah, I like swords and sorcery, I have no problem with that.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 24, 2005)

Well, you're not going to find too many male protaginists who need to be protected featuring prominently in fantasy - even with a less sexist approach, fantasy heroes need to be archetypal _heroes _in some sense. 

Martin certainly has layered, complex characters who aren't simply invulnerable blobs of muscle, that might work for you. Although I personally find his series tedious and choppily written! 

Or you could wander out of the whole Big Fat Fantasy ashtray and try China Mieville's Peridido Street Station - the 'hero' is a chubby, middle-aged maveric scientist - or Jeffrey Ford's The Physiognomy, where the 'hero' could do with some protection - and possibly a tight slap.



> Eh, by strong female types do you mean the sibling of the female-sorceress, which is the female-rogue?


 
Eh, someone's playing too many RPGs. I mean nothing of the sort. Characters who can be summed up in simple hyphenated titles usually feature in books I avoid like the plague.


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## Leto (Jun 24, 2005)

Try _The Black Company_ by *Glen Cook* then.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

knivesout said:
			
		

> Well, you're not going to find too many male protaginists who need to be protected featuring prominently in fantasy - even with a less sexist approach, fantasy heroes need to be archetypal _heroes _in some sense.
> 
> Martin certainly has layered, complex characters who aren't simply invulnerable blobs of muscle, that might work for you. Although I personally find his series tedious and choppily written!
> 
> ...


 
That wasn't very nice. I'm only using those titles do get a basic image of someone, and most fantasy books I've seen out there tend to follow those titles. I think you mistook what I said. All I want is a main character I can relate to, someone I can think about and say "If I could live another life, I would live his". Not literally but I hope you see my point. 

What is The Black Company about? (edit: nevermind, that was a dumb question, I'll look it up myself)


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## Leto (Jun 24, 2005)

A mercenary company forced to fight on the Evil side against an Evilier one. 
A whole bunch of male character to relate to, and some good female ones too. No stereotype, except as a parody.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 24, 2005)

Insertnamehere said:
			
		

> That wasn't very nice.


 
I realise that. I was responding more to my irritation with the simplistic characterisation that mars too much fantasy than to you. Sorry.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

I'm kind of use to it. It seems anytime I'm new on a forum I somehow get in a fight. -_-

I might give The Black Company a try, thanks for your help.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 24, 2005)

if i may ask, you say you don't really like fantasy, why do you want recomendations then? not trying to start anything, but it might help us to pinpoint something you'd enjoy.
i can suggest Eddings Belgarid, men and women are people, with peoples issues. they do what they must because they must. the 'hero' is a young boy, who must be protected while he grows to his strength, even once he is at his strength, he is not conan, but still garion. Its an easy read and full of cute one liners.
Song of Ice and Fire is a lot more complex and spiteful (in a good way that is), and is not finished! grrrrrrrrr


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> if i may ask, you say you don't really like fantasy, why do you want recomendations then? not trying to start anything, but it might help us to pinpoint something you'd enjoy.
> i can suggest Eddings Belgarid, men and women are people, with peoples issues. they do what they must because they must. the 'hero' is a young boy, who must be protected while he grows to his strength, even once he is at his strength, he is not conan, but still garion. Its an easy read and full of cute one liners.
> Song of Ice and Fire is a lot more complex and spiteful (in a good way that is), and is not finished! grrrrrrrrr


 
No no, I love fantasy. However none of the fantasy books I've read descriptions of or the first few pages of can keep my interest because of the characters. I use to read fantasy a lot, I guess I didn't care back then, but now it blocks me from reading any of the books I've seen.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 24, 2005)

check out the eddings threads, he has his own board in the authors section. might or might not help


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Hm, it does sound interesting. Thanks.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 24, 2005)

So what are the books/authors you have liked? It would help in making recomendations that would work for you.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Honestly, I don't remember any of the books I read as a child. I remember a book about a kid getting trapped inside a book with his friend, but only vaguely. And one about someone getting locked in a house with a jackle statue that came to life. I barely remember the stories themselves, much less titles/authors. But my tastes have changed anyway, though I would like to read the one with the jackle statue again. That's another subject though.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 24, 2005)

sounds a bit like an enid blyton, can't think which, or the lion the whitch and the wardrobe type stories. those are chronicles of narnia btw.
also try some of the young adult fiction, even though i'm 'grown up' i still like Harry Potter.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Heh, I'm reluctant to read Harry Potter. For lots of reasons. Though when I was around 10 I was obsessed with the Animorphs Series. It's not really what I'm looking for now though. I guess I should've mentioned this but a romance/fantasy is really what I'm looking for.


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## kaneda (Jun 24, 2005)

Insertnamehere said:
			
		

> No no, I love fantasy. However none of the fantasy books I've read descriptions of or the first few pages of can keep my interest because of the characters. I use to read fantasy a lot, I guess I didn't care back then, but now it blocks me from reading any of the books I've seen.


 
 You're not really giving them long to develop are you! Maybe you just need to force yourself to continue. Some of the best books I've read I wasn't keen on when i first began it.


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

kaneda said:
			
		

> You're not really giving them long to develop are you! Maybe you just need to force yourself to continue. Some of the best books I've read I wasn't keen on when i first began it.


 
Heh, I'd rather not waste my time with a book that I probably will regret reading(I've done it enough times).


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 24, 2005)

Well, maybe you should just wander into the fantasy section of your local library and take a chance. We've named a few good authors in this thread - any of them are a good starting point. 


As far as romantic fantasy goes, haven't a clue sorry!


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## dwndrgn (Jun 24, 2005)

If you don't want to waste money on books you are afraid of not liking, try picking some up at the library.

I'd personally suggest, from what I've read of your wants here, the Melanie Rawn Dragon Prince trilogy which is an older series that should be available in libraries.

Also, Elizabeth Hayden's Rhapsody.
And, Robin Hobb's Assassin.
And, both Modesitt's The Soprano Sorceress or, J. V. Jones' The Baker's Boy.

All of these don't have your typical 'I'm so great and powerful and I make no mistakes' heroes, they have realistic characters with foibles and problems and needs.  Most, especially the Rawn series, have some type of romance angle as well.

Mercedes Lackey is also an author you might want to check out.  She has loads of books out there and she almost always tends to throw some sort of romantic twist in her plots somewhere.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 24, 2005)

though, avoid terry goodkind


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## Insertnamehere (Jun 24, 2005)

Thanks, that helps some, not exactly what I'm looking for but I might try it.

However, when you said "Dragon Prince", it reminded me of something. There was a book I saw at Barnes & Noble once about 9 years ago. It was about a princess who had a pet that was a human with green skin and wings. I'm not sure if he was some human/dragon hybrid or something else, his wings looked more like butterfly or faerie wings. I really wanted to read it, however I was on a budget and I was hooked on a series at the time so I didn't get to buy it. I can't remember the title or author though, so it's plagued me all these years, hehe. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of anything like that.


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## Brys (Jun 24, 2005)

There are a lot of authors that would suit you, I think:
1) Steven Erikson (Malazan book of the Fallen) - ignore the covers, their completely unrepresentative of the books. Some of the best fantasy ever written. It may be hard to get started, but the character's are generally gray (who can and do die) and not traditional, the world is fully realised and original with a history equal or greater than Tolkien's, and more importantly, the plots are amazing, and often very saddening.
2) George RR Martin (A song of Ice and Fire) - It may seem a little traditional, but it is also very sad, with no invincible characters again, and some of the best characterisation and least predictable plots ever written.
3) China Mieville (New Crobuzon books - Perdido Street Station, the Scar, Iron Council) - Completely original, with excellent writing as well. The New Crobuzon books are absolutely nothing like your traditional fantasy books, and they're very good as well.
4) R Scott Bakker (The Prince of Nothing series) - similar to Steven Erikson, with a non-linear plot and very little traditional heroes.
5) Gene Wolfe (The Book of the New Sun) - very original first person science fantasy, about a torturer. Also well written.
6) Glen Cook (The Black Company) - Dark, military fantasy about a group of mercenaries fighting on the wrong side in a war. Also very influential on Erikson, but Erikson took the idea a lot further and added in a lot of more epic elements to write one of the best fantasy novels ever.
7) J V Jones (Sword of Shadows) - slightly more traditional in style, but the characters are quite realistic and it is quite dark. Very good.
8) Robin Hobb (Farseer trilogy) - the first two books, at least, are very good first person fantasy, with good characterisation and a relatively dark plot. Not nearly as good as Gene Wolfe though. The third book in the trilogy had a horrible ending though. It's more traditional than the others, and the naming of characters doesn't work well IMO.
9) Raymond E Feist (Empire series - cowritten with Janny Wurts) - the Empire series is Feist's best work, and much darker with none of your traditional heroes in it, and the setting, the Tsuranuanni Empire, is far more original than what you usually see.
10) Stephen Donaldson (Covenant series) - the setting may be very derivative, but Thomas Covenant, a leper, is one of the best characters in fantasy and well worth trying, though it is quite difficult to read. The quality varies from book to book though, so the others are safer bets.


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## Azash (Jun 29, 2005)

my brother would suggest the artifacts of power saga. I wont read them yet because we haven't got the second one and i dont see the point in skipping it. apparently according to him they are one of the best books he has read


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## garreth Jacks (Jun 29, 2005)

Azash said:
			
		

> my brother would suggest the artifacts of power saga. I wont read them yet because we haven't got the second one and i dont see the point in skipping it. apparently according to him they are one of the best books he has read


 
Of course I would there brilliant and there by Maggie furry if you are interested


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