# Magnificent Century (Muhteşem Yüzyıl)



## Brian G Turner (Jun 13, 2015)

Just watched the first episode of this Turkish historical drama.

I was expecting something perhaps a little cheesy - and it did start a little slow. But I found myself laughing along to some of the jokes, and by the end of the episode I was totally hooked. Even my wife and eldest daughter drifted in to watch to see what happened next.

Wonderfully lush production values. No blood or nudity.

Definitely recommended for anyone who doesn't mind pushing their boundaries a bit, with subtitled foreign productions - there's Turkish, Russian, and Italian, all spoken in this episode.

At 1 hour 40 minutes it is long, but I'm looking forward to watching more of this series. 






EDIT: Though the URL is embedded, apparently you can only watch it on Youtube.com directly.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 14, 2015)

Well! I just put this on over Sunday lunch for the family, expecting my two youngest daughters (11 and 13) to get bored and leave as soon as they'd finished eating, as they do sometimes when I put something on. But they both stayed till the end!

It probably helps that there are *a lot* of female characters in this program, and Alexandra is an incredibly feisty character.

We''ll try episode 2 next Sunday, and hopefully - if we keep watching it - we'll also pick up a little Turkish and Russian.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 21, 2015)

Watched the second episode today - loved the increasing tension within the court between Suleiman and his mother, and how the court loyalty is being forced to choose between them. Laughed out loud at how manipulative Alexandra is becoming, and the test of wits between her and Suleiman's first wife.

Another really engaging episode, though the quality of the subtitles became quite poor at times, with more typos than last episode, and some text seemed to stick to the screen.

Anyone else watching?


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 28, 2015)

Episode 3 was a corker - so many developments over a ring!

Although this series is ostensibly about the Ottoman Empire under Suleiman, the story is clearly more about the women and the power games they play - there are far more regular speaking characters who are female. In fact, aside from Suleiman and his best friend Ibrihim, the only regular speaking male roles so far are Sumbul Aga the eunoch, and two-year old Prince Mustafa. 

Although the episodes are long, there is a good pace and I haven't noticed the episodes dragging - so far. And if all my family can enjoy this, the programme makers are obviously doing something right!

No one feel like trying this at all? Or am I the last to watch a popular series again?


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## Maroosh Qazi (Jul 12, 2015)

Oh wow I can't believe it. Finally I found someone who is currently watching the series. Well the series has finished in Turkey but it is still airing worldwide and in some countries beginning to air. It was truly a worldwide sensation and still is. In my country they have gone crazy with it where when they first telecast it on a channel they telecast one hour daily about 2 years ago; since then they have telecast it about 5 times and it is airing again, sometimes there used to be repeat timings of it as well with the old episodes so far aired. My whole family used to watch it with enthusiasm including my grandma and it is one show that I cannot stop obsessing over. I have watched literally millions of shows/movies/etc in Bollywood and Hollywood but I have always got over my obsessions. This one is still standing and it is not going to fade away easily. I am guilty of currently watching a repeat telecast of it when I should be studying for my exams a month away. Probably it is the kind of show that really matches my taste owing to its monologues, poetry, old-fashioned dresses, deadly enmities and poisonous love sagas and magnificent sets. And in case you don't know this show was actually filmed in the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul which is a tourist site and I would love to see it someday. Now that I am watching it again, for me it is a bit slow in the first season, probably because now I know where the suspense will lead to but I love it when the story gets a lot darker later on in terms of politics and the race of placing the rightful heir on the throne. Do keep posting what you thought of every episode and I will then tell you my opinion on it. Do also be aware that although it is based on history, history was nothing like this. It was so immensely popular that it got Erdogan, their Prime Minister very upset. Google his reaction on it. It is interesting to see he didn't like it when the series worked very well for reconnecting the world with Turkey through their television screens. But that is because as I reached the end of the series I also wanted to believe that the historical Sultan was better than the one in the show and I am sure that that is the truth. So enjoy it by all means and hopefully it will intrigue you to learn more about the actual history of the Ottoman Empire but don't take every word of it to be true. By the way are you watching it on TV or on the internet. And also I hope you go till the end of the journey because for me it was truly an amazing one and I am still reeling from the shock that now there are no more new episodes for me to watch. And trust me that I have never been obsessed this much with a show. I have always been one of the more sensible ones but this show's magic really got to me. Hope to keep hearing from u


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 12, 2015)

Merhaba, Maroosh! And welcome to chronicles. 



Maroosh Qazi said:


> Well the series has finished in Turkey but it is still airing worldwide and in some countries beginning to air.



I'm currently watching it on YouTube - I'm not sure if it's been broadcast in the UK, but I suspect not, and the DVD isn't available on Amazon UK. Which is a great shame because this is a great series.



Maroosh Qazi said:


> for me it is a bit slow in the first season



Episode 9 dragged a bit - that episode is nearly 2 hours long on YouTube - but the climax was incredible (the fire...)



Maroosh Qazi said:


> And in case you don't know this show was actually filmed in the Topkapi Palace in Istanbul



I took my wife to Istnbul as a 40th birthday treat for myself - I love the history. And, yes, we did go to the Topkapi Palace, which makes it a little more interesting to have been where they did some of the filming. 



Maroosh Qazi said:


> It was so immensely popular that it got Erdogan, their Prime Minister very upset



I'm surprised by that - but then again, I don't know how the plot will twist later on. So far it seems suitably patriotic - hard not to be when it's about one of the most amazing periods of Turkish history.

Anyway, we're almost halfway through Season 1, and looking forward to watching more.

Gule gule.


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## Maroosh Qazi (Jul 12, 2015)

Good to see you are learning some turkish as well  I also picked up quite a bit of Turkish vocabulary while watching Turkish soaps which I am now addicted to. Although I don't remember every single episode that well now but yes it does have episodes which drag on a bit and the suspense gets a bit too much but the nice thing is that it is always resolved in some way or another by the end of the episode leaving another question mark for the next one. I would love to go to Turkey now because it seems to be the trend these days. So I don't really remember which episode is which now. So what episode did you just finish watching and what did you think of it? 

Well there are quite a few reasons which I can reckon with that Erdogan might be upset due to. I think that as you said the show is more about harem intrigues than the battles Suleyman fought. A major portion of his life would have been spent away from his palace making decisions about war. 

And although that is shown and it increases in later episodes but he still interferes quite a bit in harem intrigues and is stuck in women politics from one woman in his bed to the next. As you watch the show you will also realise that the show runners get quite addicted to the idea of bringing competition for Hurrem everytime for the Sultan so that Hurrem can defeat that competition. Although that idea worked quite well at the start but eventually you are left to question Sultan's character. I know that at the time slavery was allowed in Islam and everything but it just wouldn't have been the way it is shown. You are left to question whether he really loves Hurrem or not? 

Also on the same topic according to Turkish/Islamic standards there are a lot more scenes showing off a woman's body than is necessary. Normally in shows that would not be a problem and the Prime Minister would not speak against it, especially in Turkey which has Westernised quite a lot. However when it concerns history, everyone will question what they see. Frankly I also think that the royalty in terms of clothing would be much more heavily dressed at that time even in Britain contrary to what is shown in shows these days. You will notice that in light of the Prime Minister's criticism quite a few changes are made in the show as it progresses in later seasons. Also as you said in terms of politics as well in later seasons I did not find some things historically accurate. Hope that clarified it a bit.

One thing I also watched the show for was for the characters of Hurrem and Ibrahim and their enmity attracted me a lot more than the enmity between Hurrem and Mahidevran which really bored me. I loved the chemistry between this pair and although some viewers have taken sides between the 2 but I love them both equally as they both become very powerful figures and as they grow in power, so does their enmity. That will be something interesting to watch out for. Anyway I will go before I ruin any kind of suspense for you. I should really get back to studying now. I hope I haven't accidentally given any spoilers already. Happy Viewing!!


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 12, 2015)

Maroosh Qazi said:


> I hope I haven't accidentally given any spoilers already.



None at all, thankfully.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 4, 2015)

We really didn't like the Princess Isabella storyline that Season 2 started to focus on. At episode 32 we were ready to give up - Suleyman had been the one steadfastly sympathetic character until then, and along with the Balibey + Armin subplot, it was all starting to look a bit creepy.

But we figured we'd give episode 33 a try - and it went immediately back to strong form. The episode was worth watching alone just for Hurrem's big confrontation - as if it was the culmination of every episode so far. It ended with a decent double-cliffhanger.

But then we watched episode 34 tonight - and, OMG. That's all I can say. It was so intense. I'll not mention any spoilers, suffice to say that within 5 minutes it had swung in a completely unexpected and devastating direction. Then an amazing double cliffhanger. And that's without mentioning the potentially big subplot we just got a hint of, with the dead body at the docks.

The character development in this series veers between the superficial and the profound. And when it touches the latter - as it often does - I can only say that it's some of the best I've seen. Hurrem and Ibrihim are worthy mentions on any all-time great character list.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 4, 2015)

OMG! Someone beside me is watching this!

It was on TV here in its entity so I won't post many spoilers and I watched almost all of it but the last season when they change the actress. I loved Hurrem and I loved all the drama and intrigue. What do you guys think of Valide Sultana? She was one of my favourite characters.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 5, 2015)

Anushka Mokosh said:


> OMG! Someone beside me is watching this!



Hurray, another chronner watching it!



Anushka Mokosh said:


> the last season when they change the actress.



Oh! For which character, or shouldn't I ask? Surely not Hurrem?



Anushka Mokosh said:


> What do you guys think of Valide Sultana?



She's certainly a strong and calm figure, and one of the few not to undergo any change so far. At the moment I'm wanting her acknowledge a degree of power to Hurrem, and stop siding so much with Mahidevran. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 5, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> Hurray, another chronner watching it!







Brian Turner said:


> Oh! For which character, or shouldn't I ask? Surely not Hurrem?



Better I don't say. It can be rather spoilerish. XD



Brian Turner said:


> She's certainly a strong and calm figure, and one of the few not to undergo any change so far. At the moment I'm wanting her acknowledge a degree of power to Hurrem, and stop siding so much with Mahidevran. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens.



Oh, she's not really siding so much with Mahidevran as protecting herself from the threat Hurrem's ambition is posing to her way of life. How far in the story are you now? It's been a while since I watched the show and I don't want to spoil much of what comes ahead.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 5, 2015)

Anushka Mokosh said:


> How far in the story are you now?





Spoiler



Hurrem has had a big confrontation with Valide about her position. Hatice has lost Mehmet and her mind. Ibrihim just recovered from poisoning and presented Suleyman with Leo's diary, asking Hurrem to translate it...


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 5, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Hurrem has had a big confrontation with Valide about her position. Hatice has lost Mehmet and her mind. Ibrihim just recovered from poisoning and presented Suleyman with Leo's diary, asking Hurrem to translate it...





Spoiler



Ah yes. I remember all those. Things will get even more complicated in Ibrahim and Hurem's relationship. I always found their relationship interesting since both Hurrem and Ibrahim cared very deeply about Suleyman, but were always at each other's throat. The fact that they both actually cared about Suleyman sometimes made them pull punches, but they still gave each other some crippling ones.



Btw, I couldn't find the rest of the episodes on that linked channel. Are you watching them on another youtube channel perhaps? I've been intending to re-watch them and I can't really find them to download.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 5, 2015)

Anushka Mokosh said:


> Btw, I couldn't find the rest of the episodes on that linked channel. Are you watching them on another youtube channel perhaps? I've been intending to re-watch them and I can't really find them to download.



Quite possibly - I just type "Magnificent Century [episode number]" and something usually comes up with English subtitles, but not always from the same channel.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 5, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> Quite possibly - I just type "Magnificent Century [episode number]" and something usually comes up with English subtitles, but not always from the same channel.


Ah. All right then. I know who can get me all the episodes then.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 11, 2015)

I've started re-watching the show. It is really amusing to remember just how little shrewdness Hurrem had in those early episodes and relied on just her charm to get her through and then compare it to how she shrewd she is in latter episodes.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 11, 2015)

Anushka Mokosh said:


> I've started re-watching the show. It is really amusing to remember just how little shrewdness Hurrem had in those early episodes and relied on just her charm to get her through and then compare it to how she shrewd she is in latter episodes.



We're really enjoying how Hurrem's developing - even now we comment on how much she's changed. Remember when she just used to shriek at everything? And now she's just cold, bold, and dangerous to know. 

We really didn't enjoy the Princess Isabella subplot, but it looks as though we're finally finished with that. Allowing for all sorts of confrontations among the main characters. 

It's interesting how we remain sympathetic to Hurrem, despite her flaws, and how well the show plays with our emotions. 



Spoiler



Hurrem is directly challenging Valide for control of the Harem, and Valide responded by trying to isolate Hurrem - and killing her horse. Hurrem has just barged into Valide's chambers with the bloodied dagger from the scene for the cliffhanger - presumably to confront her or Daye about it. And I was filled with a shared sense of outrage for Hurrem, and thought about all the different ways she could react, and the words that she could say. I guess the show's getting back on form.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 11, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> We're really enjoying how Hurrem's developing - even now we comment on how much she's changed. Remember when she just used to shriek at everything? And now she's just cold, bold, and dangerous to know.
> 
> We really didn't enjoy the Princess Isabella subplot, but it looks as though we're finally finished with that. Allowing for all sorts of confrontations among the main characters.
> 
> ...



Yes. She really progressed a lot and learnt how to play the Harem Games to her best advantage.

I didn't like it either. Isabella was greatly overrated IMO. Here, she was a very popular character, but I just wanted her to go away.

Hurrem is human. I think that's the character's strongest point. She's relate-able and somehow, odds are always stacked against her so we enjoy cheering for the underdog.



Spoiler



That was such a cruel thing in great part because it is so pointless in terms of reaching a goal. It was only designed to hurt Hurrem.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 11, 2015)

Anushka Mokosh said:


> we enjoy cheering for the underdog.



That's exactly it. In fact, much of what we just said is exactly what my wife and I were discussing straight after. 

I think it's a testament to the series that it can do such a great job with the characters - overall, at least. The trouble with the Isabella plot - IMO - is that it turned characters that we had previously sympathised with, into ones we did not - not least Suleyman himself.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 11, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> That's exactly it. In fact, much of what we just said is exactly what my wife and I were discussing straight after.
> 
> I think it's a testament to the series that it can do such a great job with the characters - overall, at least. The trouble with the Isabella plot - IMO - is that it turned characters that we had previously sympathised with, into ones we did not - not least Suleyman himself.



Yes, it is why I disliked Isabella in part aside from her just irritating me. She wasn't bad per se, but she got there at the expense of other characters and I didn't get why people were singing her praises.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Sep 12, 2015)

Another thing that is very note-worthy about the show, at the very least in the beginning, are the battle scenes. Like it this episode. At the 3:05 mark. They are very nicely shot without necessarily a cast of 1000 to make it very eye-catching and yet in a way, doesn't shy from dark aspect of it with just enough blood to bring it across that people are dying and not make it overly gore-y. I really like the employed style of filming.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 14, 2015)

I presume there was simply no budget for the battle scenes, so they opted for a style of presentation I'd expect to see on stage in a theatre - such as in a Shakespeare. But I agree - because of that, they're really effective, and think they translate well to the screen.

Also! Just watched 39 - and, OMG, they still know how to do cliffhangers! A triple one this time - Nigar standing on the balcony, Hatice found the letter in the violin case, and Hurrem just refused to see Suleyman. And that was all after the massive confrontation between Hurrem and Valide with all sorts of repuercussions (Heart! Notebook! Daye!). Which - for anyone reading who has never seen the series, it'll all sound a bit trite. But they are continuing escalations in plot lines that have been developing since the opening.

It's very clever how they play their audience. I was cheering when Hatice found that note. It's time for Pasha to be called to account.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 7, 2015)

I've been slowly re-watching the show. New job on a 8 to 4 basis has been kind of a time hogger especially with classes in the mix, but I finally reached the episode 25.



Spoiler: Spoilers for EP. 24 & 25



The scenes with Leo's death are so heartbreaking. I don't think I ever forgave Ibrahim-pasha for how he handled that situation. It was so cruel it was bone-chilling especially since Hurrem was pregnant with Bayazid at the time. Forcing Hurrem to choose between herself and her unborn child on one site and Leo on the other side was so heartbreakingly cruel. I felt so bad for Hurrem in that scene and even more so for Leo. In a way, Leo choose to die, but Ibrahim giving the choice to Hurrem practically destroyed her.

Another thing I hated in that episode was how Victoria said that Matrakçı Nasuh was the one carrying the letters just to hurt Ibrahim without taking into account that it meant Matrakçı might also lose his life. I didn't really hate it as part of the plot, but I hated Victoria for doing it because Matrakçı Nasuh was one of my favourite characters and he was blameless in the entire situation. Ibrahim being so violent against him was also something that I hated from Ibrahim. He kept attacking Matrakçı for being so blinded by love for a woman yet he was equally blinded by Hattice and could have lost his life had Suleiman not been merciful as he was. Forcing Matrakçı to kill her was another cruel thing he had done.

These two events where he made two people kill were what cemented my dislike of Ibrahim. While with Hurrem, I could understand it even if Leo was blameless since he hates Hurrem, Matrakçı was his friend. Such cruelty towards a friend seemed rather unwarranted since Matrakçı was effectively blameless in the entire situation.


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## Brian G Turner (Oct 8, 2015)

Re: Season 1 finale:



Spoiler



It was intense, wasn't it? 

I thought it was superb the way that Ibrahim was revealed to be such an incredible villain, after he'd been made to be such a sympathetic character via his love for with Hatice. The transition was, frankly, masterful. 

And, indeed, his dealing with Matrakci just showed how aggressive and malicious he could be.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 8, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> Re: Season 1 finale:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Yes, I really love how intense the episodes sometimes are.

I like how the show keeps playing with us in regards who the villains are and how I feel sympathy for some characters only to have them trample all over Hurrem, most of the time entirely without a real reason, and then my sympathy just deflates as they show that they aren't very nice people.

I completely agree. I also hated how he seemed to replace Matrakci with Bali-bey as a friend. It made his friend seem to disposable.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 9, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 31



I hated Hatice in this episode. Her treatment of Hurrem was so despicable. I understand that Hurrem had inadvertently caused her distress with words about an affair between Isabella and Ibrahim, but Hurrem was simply mistaken. She did have an interest in taking down Ibrahim, but she actually thought that Ibrahim was having an affair. Hatice knows that Suleiman isn't having an affair with Isabella yet she intentionally makes Hurrem think so just to hurt her.

I also really hated that Suleiman kissed Isabella at the end, but we already discussed that earlier in the thread.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 13, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 43



The look on Valide's face when Suleiman announced his marriage to Hurrem was priceless. She looked like she's about to have a stroke. And when she aksed him if he wanted to kill her and then so perfectly passed out was just perfect, I just couldn't stop myself from giggling slightly. It was so theatrical. XD

Hurrem cancelling Ibrahim's assassination for Hatice's sake was really touching especially in light of Hatice's earlier behaviour when she had Hurrem at her mercy.

The trap Valide sets for Hurrem is just so nerve-wrecking even though I already know how it ends.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 16, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 44



The scene between Hatice and Hurem was heartbreaking.

I am constantly annoyed by Nigar's feelings for Ibrahim because he always abused her. I never saw one good thing in his treatment of her to justify such martyrdom-love from her.

Bali-bey and Aybige were hilarious. His face when he realizes which is the real one is hilarious. Aybige is such a tomboy and I loved how she had hit the nail on the head with why Mahidevran hates Hurrem. After the slight against Hurrem by Valide and hers gang, Aybige was the nice and polite one. I did not like Mahidevran lying about Hurrem being such a treacherous person since the one more likely to betray her allies is Mahidevran. TBH, I don't even think Hurrem betrayed anyone since her first betrayal of Maria/Gulnihal. Hurrem even sometimes pulls her punches just to avoid hurting some people like how she retracted her order to kill Ibrahim in order to spare Hatice. Valide made a huge mistake when she refused Hurrem's hand. She should have expected it would reach Suleiman sooner or later and he already sees her as someone dead-set against Hurrem for no actual reason. 

It was nice hearing singing to Nigar since I could really enjoy the song as translation wasn't necessary, but I really didn't like that sham of a wedding and the way it played out. Nasuh had not deserved that. I felt so sorry for him. I also felt sorry for Hatice. Despite certain dislikes I have about her as a character in regards to her actions against Hurrem, it was really sad seeing her all alone while Ibrahim went to have alone-time with his new mistress, Nigar.


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## Brian G Turner (Oct 21, 2015)

Spoiler



I found the conflict between Hurrem and Hatice a bit forced - after all, Hurrem saved her baby.

Hurrem's attempt to have Ibrahim also felt somewhat rushed - it seemed to come from nowhere, and disappear just as quickly.

However, the confrontations with Valide and Hurrem were long in coming, and brillient to watch - absolutely made up for Isabella.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Oct 21, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I think they meant to justify it as Hatice seeing Hurrem as just a slave girl of Suleiman and all that about duty to their family shebang, but it really reflects so poorly on Hatice when she treats Hurrem like that despite Hurrem saving her.

Well, she relented from assassination for Hatice's sake. Hurrem in a way still yearns to be accepted by the dynasty because she admires them and envies them a lot. She sees Ibrahim as a rival and as a threat to her children because he so obviously favours Mustafa and his involvement tends to always be in Mahidevran's favour.

Definitely. Hurrem vs Valide is one of the best conflicts in the show especially because their interests are so aligned in everything but the way harem should function in regards to Hurrem herself. One can argue that Valide created Hurrem as her biggest adversary because Hurrem's actions are rooted in large part in wanting to be accepted and respected in harem. Valide was always pushing her down, favouring Mahidevran, always treating Hurrem as less. Hatice followed her mother's lead. Arguably, Hurrem getting her freedom and getting married to Suleiman were all a consequence of Valide excluding Hurrem from everything, tearing her down, provoking her by saying she's "just another slave girl", saying that just because she had Suleiman's children she's no better than any other slave girl, allowing blatant disrespect of Hurrem in the harem (despite Hurrem being a legitimate sultana and introduced into inner harem circle by Suleiman himself by giving Hurrem sable fur early on), and making her feel like she was being humiliated by the family. Not to mention the preferential treatment of Mahidevran by comparison despite Mahidevran's behaviour at many events being worse than Hurrem's and yet Valide demanded respect for Mahidevran. This preferential treatment really made Hurrem feel like she had to fight for herself (since Mahidevran had such a preferential treatment despite being as much of a slave girl as Hurrem and simply elevated by birthing a son which is something Hurrem did too and yet Hurrem got no benefits for it) thus shaping her as a person.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Nov 1, 2015)

Spoiler: Up to episode 50



I was such a shipper on board for Aybige and Bali-bey. The attempts of Valide and Mahidevran to pair her with Mustafa devastated my poor shipper heart. It also pisses me off since they have so little regard towards harem rules now despite being such sticklers to rules when it comes to Hurrem. Just a bit earlier, Mahidevran had reminded Nora/Efsun about the harem rules prohibiting Mustafa from marrying before he goes to sanjak, but now, they don't seen to be very worried about respecting those rules. Mahidevran's attempts to force a change upon the tomboyish and self-reliant Aybige really pissed me off too. They are so obsessed with changing anyone who doesn't suit their fancy. 

In other news, the continued warring between Valide and Hurrem seems to be very self-destructive on Valide's side. She keeps making decisions that make her seem petty and cruel, especially as she brought back Fatma and Fidan after they mutilated Hurrem's face in the rebellion with Valide herself orchestrated. Even though it was confirmed to Suleiman that Valide was behind it due to Daye's signature, this only incriminates Valide further and makes her seem cruel, petty, and unwilling to put it behind them.

I keep hating Ibrahim's behaviour towards Nashu. It seems like such unfair behaviour towards a supposed friend. During the entire affair, I felt so sorry for Nasuh. Both Nigar and Ibrahim treated him so abhorrently. Daye finding out will complicate things now for certain. Hurrem had also certain now that something is going on. There is no way she'll let it slide.

Ibrahim's hubris and hunger for power are his fatal flaws and it is showing more and more. His relationship with Nigar, the sculptures he keeps in the garden, the sculpture of himself he had made, etc. all steam from those flaws in his character. All the little traps Hurrem sets him up to don't do him half the harm he does to himself. She just has to make sure Suleiman finds out what Ibrahim does.


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## The Judge (Nov 22, 2015)

I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.

I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel).  Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion.  I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.

Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador).  And Ibrahim was sexy as hell...  So I may well watch another episode or two.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Nov 22, 2015)

The Judge said:


> I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.
> 
> I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel).  Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion.  I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.
> 
> Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador).  And Ibrahim was sexy as hell...  So I may well watch another episode or two.



The reason harem and Alexandra in the early episodes seem so hard to believe is because it wasn't really so. Girls brought to the harem were generally much much younger and were raised and educated there for the most part. They were indoctrinated to behave that way and some of them were actually sent there by their families in order to secure them a better living. But before they'd be bough to sultan, they would have to excel in many areas of what was considered education for harem girls and girls were carefully selected before they could as much as cross sultan's path. Many of the girls brought would just become servant girls, apprentices to their medics, or kalfae. Even if some were brought at a latter age, it would probably take quite a while before they met sultan if they ever did. In large part, they changed that depiction of harem in order to be able to introduce immediate threats to Hurrem's position via new women in harem Suleiman could get interested in and indoctrination would be quite hard to sell. And then, they had to make that come to terms with Hurrem's quick rise to power and prominence in the harem. It is really the reason why early Hurrem is unbearable to watch at times. They wanted to make her personal story more tragic, but they had to hurry the transition part because watching Hurrem do mundane harem things as she deals with her personal tragedy wouldn't interest their target audience. I just tend to ignore the early angsty Hurrem.

As for her intelligence, she'll remain petty and pointless for a while. She gets better later on for reasonably decent justifications where she gains mentor-ship, goes through some hardships, and learns to navigate the court. Even early on, there is still some spark of intelligence to her actions and quick uptake, but she's impulsive, petty, and reckless making it all seem like a low form of cunningness.


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## The Judge (Nov 22, 2015)

I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter.  Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.


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## Brian G Turner (Nov 22, 2015)

The Judge said:


> So I may well watch another episode or two.



There are times when _Magnificent Century _demands patience - there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.

However, IMO the patient viewer is richly rewarded.

I agree, episode 1 came across as simply "potentially interesting" to me when I first watched it. But my kids wanted to see what happened with Hurrem vs the harem. The character and plot and development became gripping for us. And some of those cliffhangers later on were astonishing...

The story arcs sometimes flirt with cliche and sometimes drag - other times they are driven, relentless, and intense. Overall, IMO there is some of the best characterisations on TV. If you make it to the end of Season 1 you'll see what I mean (especially regarding Ibrahim).

Whatever you decide though, I'm sincerely glad you at least tried it.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Nov 22, 2015)

The Judge said:


> I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter.  Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.



Well, sadly, considering they would get there very young and would be rather indoctrinated with their education and contact with outer world being rather limited, it wouldn't be very far off from how their behaviour might have been. But later on, you'll be shown many of them as smarter than that and in a wide array of roles. Pay a lot of attention to how Valide Sultan and Daye-hatun instruct them to be, especially when they point out Hurrem's flaws, and you realize that most of them has to act that way to avoid their ire.

They could have, but I think that in large part they feared the backlash. IIRC, they had a lot of backlash in Turkey for misrepresentation of some historical figures (a lot of backlash was about Suleiman), timeline, and relationships to the point where show was almost cancelled despite the huge popularity. Historically, Hurrem attracted Suleiman with her cheerful disposition. I think backlash would have been even worse if they changed that.

The problem with Hurrem transitioning was that they had roughly two ways to do it. Have her transition before she met Suleiman and have her transition with Suleiman's help. The former wasn't really an option because the entire premise was heavily advertised as this huge love story and initial push was largely due to popularity of actor playing Suleiman, rooted greatly in another romantic show. It would be too much of a gamble for them. The latter would be impossible with regards to the portrayal of Suleiman. I think that it would have been best had they avoided the early Hurrem angst altogether by having it be more in the past for Hurrem, but I think they wanted to use it for parallels with Ibrahim later on.

As I say, her characterization gets better and more consistent latter on as she starts progressing. I think that what they were going for was "tortured young woman who had a bit of luck and had let it get to her head" as a way to show the side of Hurrem many Turkish historians depicted and the tortured part is there for people to feel sympathy. In historical records, Hurrem was portrayed rather negatively very often. You'll still see that Hurrem return from time to time and come to surface, but even Hurrem herself admits to occasionally being petty or as she calls it, childish.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Nov 22, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> There are times when _Magnificent Century _demands patience - *there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.*



I think that this is a Turkish cinematography thing. I didn't follow many other Turkish shows, but they put them on TV here a lot and my mother was a huge fan of some of them so I saw parts of them whenever I went home (Karagül [Black Rose] - which was insanely popular here to the point where everyone and their grandmother watched it, Adını Feriha Koydum [Girl Named Feriha] - one actress from there will make a début in Magnificent Century eventually as a very important character, 1001 gece (1001 Night) - the show I mentioned in previous post as the one where actor playing Suleiman starred, Sıla [Sila - it's a name] - main actress from there will also début in Magnificent Century, Ezel [Ezel - it's a name], etc. Those are all I remember). These happened in all of them.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Dec 2, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 59



This episode could comfortably be titled "Ibrahim's hubris and Mahidevran's malfeasance" as their fatal flaws are just shining through in this episode. Ibrahim is overreaching despite the warning bells going off in his own head and Mahidevran is going rampant as soon as she gained just a bit of power without understanding that it is temporary at best. It is amusing to see Hatice take Hurrem's side because she simply has to. I'm just waiting for the situation with Nigar to blow up.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Dec 2, 2015)

Spoiler: Episode 61



Hurrem's speech to Valide just perfectly concludes their joint history. It was a very emotional scene on Valide's end. She can't speak. She can't do anything. And she was already in turmoil regarding the reveal of Ibrahim's affair with Nigar and now the decision is out of her hands. It being concluded with Valide's death makes the entire situation more devastating.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Dec 4, 2015)

This episode contains one of best scenes in the entire show. It is perfect start to end. It is spoiler heavy, but I can't wait until someone reaches this point in the show.


Spoiler: Episode 72



Hurrem is happy because it is their sacred Thursday which means she gets a night with Suleiman which is important to her since they aren't in best of relations at the moment and there is a powerful rival, Firuze with whom Hurrem made a bet. Whichever loses favour with Suleiman will drink a very powerful poison and terminate her life. As Hurrem gets to Suleiman's quarters, she is stopped by guards telling her someone is already inside and the smile she was wearing just melts away. The scene cuts to Firuze and Suleiman as Suleiman is making a ring for Firuze and Firuze asks him about the mirror Hurrem gifted him early on in the show. Suleiman looks into mirror and sees a crying Hurrem, but he turns away from it.

The scene cuts back to Hurrem and she is in shock. The tense music which started during the end of Firuze-Suleiman scene continues as guards tell Hurrem that Firuze is the one in the quarters and then camera just focuses on Hurrem who is looking like the world just crumbled. The drum and pipe instrumental follows the change in the colouring effect as camera follows Hurrem who is now returning to her own quarters and monologues about the change. Afife-hatun observes Hurrem as she is leaving, but the camera mostly follows Hurrem and the expressions the actress makes just work perfectly in the context as the entire harem sees her walking, but she doesn't pay them any attention. As she reaches her quarters and her balcony, music takes on a darker tone as we hear a storm raging outside. Hurem takes down her crown and the tense music slowly blends into Hurrem's lullaby as she contemplates her existence in the new-found circumstances where she considers she lost her world again while she observes the storm. She takes out the poison and prepares to drink it. The poison is inches away from her lips as Afife-hatun gets there and snaps her out of the daze and it is only now that Hurrem is starting to cry as Afife comforts her and the colouring effect is dropped.

We later see Hurrem alive and it is explained that Afife told her Suleiman had sent Firuze away meaning Hurrem wasn't defeated yet.





Spoiler: Episode 73



This is really the episode where I really start hating Firuze. Wasn't a fan even before this, but in this one she is really full of it in this episode.

Hurrem is ruthless in this one and I absolutely love it. Hatice and Ibrahim have been stepping all over her with the entire Firuze business and now she is lashing back with any means necessary. I do find the way she's doing it despicable, but after episode 72, really can't get worked up to hate her for it.


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

Glad to see that since the last time I was here another eager fan has also joined in the discussion. I read almost all of what Brian and Anushka, both of u said and thought I would just briefly share my view. So Brian have u now watched till episode 73. That's incredible!


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

The first time I watched this show it was coming on TV in Pakistan and it was I think quite a later episode of season 2. From the time I started watching it in the first viewing, me and my whole family were completely on Hurrem's side. Anyone who stood up against her was simply an enemy of hers. With all the horrifying deeds of hers, others were no saint and she had stood alone through every storm. But as the story progressed after the first 2 seasons even though I could not stop loving her I understood Valide Sultan's warning to the Sultan to not marry her; how it will destroy the family and her to response to Hatice's statement "she is beautiful" that "beauty fades with time" in the very beginning episodes.


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

Maroosh Qazi said:


> The first time I watched this show it was coming on TV in Pakistan and it was I think quite a later episode of season 2. From the time I started watching it in the first viewing, me and my whole family were completely on Hurrem's side. Anyone who stood up against her was simply an enemy of hers. With all the horrifying deeds of hers, others were no saint and she had stood alone through every storm. But as the story progressed after the first 2 seasons even though I could not stop loving her I understood Valide Sultan's warning to the Sultan to not marry her; how it will destroy the family and her to response to Hatice's statement "she is beautiful" that "beauty fades with time" in the very beginning episodes.


So initially I hated Valide Sultan and Ibrahim but as the story progressed I began to realise that atleast in my view nobody was a saint or a devil here. Despite the horrifying deeds they had all done, the reasons they did them were understandable and made these characters quite ordinary humans. I am not intending to compare it with Western shows, but for me I had never seen a show before that did not atleast one Saint or one complete devil. Here there was neither a clear saintly character or a marked out devil. And that is what made me fall in love with this show. How all of these characters had blood on their hands, how they could take life without wincing. It made the whole concept of the show amazing to me. I had never seen historical characters presented like that before. In this show whenever u felt u completely could not forgive a character or u were completely in love with this character they did something to prove u wrong. And just when u were about to hate them they would do something redeeming or have a redeeming quality that left an ounce of hope for their character or showed u that they were simply human and even the worst villains in history were humans. I hate that history is normally presented to us in an already opinionated manner and that it is already decided for u who u should hate and who u should love right from history books, history teachers and documentaries all of them are based on opinion in some way or other. And although it is impossible to avoid the contamination of opinion; after all shows are the biggest forms of opinion but yet it would be nice to know that everyone was human first and had a choice and everyone made their own choices; that nobody was a born devil or a born Saint. I am not saying Western shows don't show character development but what I like about Magnificent century is that it is a character-driven show so it just spends a LOT more time with each character and I felt for a while like I was in that palace in that time. That was the magic of the show! I feel nostalgic remembering it.


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

Oh and also since both of u mentioned the character of Ibrahim as being portrayed villain, as I said earlier that on my second viewing I loved the characters of Ibrahim and Hurrem equally. The reason for that was their amazing chemistry. Not currently had the chance to see the show again so not sure where their interactions have reached so far but later on they become so much more intense and deadly and u r watching with baited breath to see who wins even though u already know who is going to win. Ibrahim is such a tragically flawed character. I later on realised he is so hopeless in his flaws that he cannot change them and is almost walking in a straight line to his destruction. He makes Hurrem's job so much easier than it would have been otherwise. His story with Nigar will bring some shocking twists and heartbreaks later on. I hate very few characters in the show but later on I hate her to the core.


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

For me I love Ibrahim because of his love and loyalty to the Sultan. It is such a brotherly bond. Such beautiful and tragic course their friendship takes. Not sure how good the subtitles are but for all their teasing each other with their carefully worded taunts and insults while still smiling at each other's face and Bowing in respect to each other made me ship their interactions on screen like anything. U just wish time and again they became friends and resolved the whole matter! After all they are so alike in many ways!


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## Maroosh Qazi (Dec 7, 2015)

Sorry I did say it would be brief. Shouldnt make any promises while talking about this show!


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## Brian G Turner (Dec 7, 2015)

Maroosh Qazi said:


> So Brian have u now watched till episode 73.



Not yet - we paused at episode 55, after the most intense episode to date:



Spoiler



where it appeared that Suleiman might die from his heart attack - resulting in Mahidevran preparing to take over the harem and planning to murder all of Hurrem's children. OMG!



We've taken a break to watch a few other TV shows first - we'll get back to _Magnificent Century_ sometime next year.


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## Anushka Mokosh (Dec 7, 2015)

Maroosh Qazi said:


> Glad to see that since the last time I was here another eager fan has also joined in the discussion. I read almost all of what Brian and Anushka, both of u said and thought I would just briefly share my view. So Brian have u now watched till episode 73. That's incredible!


I'm at 73 or was last time I posted. I'm at 97 right now. I'm actually rewatching, but I don't intend on rewatching season 4 because


Spoiler: HUGE SPOILER FOR SEASON 4



Meryem no longer plays Hurrem and she's the reason I adore Hurrem.


Regarding Valide, I liked her most of the time. However, there was a period where unlike Hurrem, her actions had no purpose but to hurt. That's when she was all black. Hurrem was always more or less grey.


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