# Dubbed or Subbed?



## Talysia

I think I can guess what the answer to this question is going to be, but I thought I'd ask it anyway.  When watching a film in its native language, do you prefer to watch it with subtitles or would you rather see it dubbed into English/a language you understand?

For me, it has to be subtitled, every time.

Also, can anyone think of examples where the dub is better than the original?


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## jackokent

Subtitles for me every time too.  The only exception is when dubbing is done particularly badly with hilarious results.


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## philoSCIFI

Subtitled. For all that is good in the world, SUBTITLED! Dubbed takes away from the experience more so than subtitles.

If dubbed, I agree with jackokent. It has to be intentional within reason and for comedic reasons/results. And even in this case, I'm not too fond of dubbed.


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## jackokent

philoSCIFI said:


> It has to be intentional within reason


 
I much prefer it when it's unintentionally aweful.  I remember seeing a film many years ago called something like Zombie's at Manchester Mortuary.  Yes I know I shouldn't have expected much.  It was foreign and dubbed but the great thing was they used every single different accent they could think of.  So you had broad Irish, Scotish, Yorkshire, Jordie etc etc all working in this one ward.  It was so hilarious we were in fits even before the rubbish zombies made an appearance.  A truely brilliant example of an unintentional comedy.


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## philoSCIFI

jackokent said:


> I much prefer it when it's unintentionally aweful.  I remember seeing a film many years ago called something like Zombie's at Manchester Mortuary.  Yes I know I shouldn't have expected much.  It was foreign and dubbed but the great thing was they used every single different accent they could think of.  So you had broad Irish, Scotish, Yorkshire, Jordie etc etc all working in this one ward.  It was so hilarious we were in fits even before the rubbish zombies made an appearance.  A truely brilliant example of an unintentional comedy.



 I can see your point. Though I can't bring myself to enjoy a film if I had to pay for it and am expecting something other than what it is in actuality? Umm... wait. No... what did I say?

I think I have to be in the mood for it. If it is unintentional comedy where the movie is making fun of the movie, then possibly yes. If it is unintentional comedy because the viewers are appauled(sp?) by how terrible the movie is then... sometimes yes and sometimes no. 

Yeah... have to be in the mood and with some friends.


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## jackokent

I think it helped being very very drunk


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## philoSCIFI

jackokent said:


> I think it helped being very very drunk


LOL.  That _could_ also be a big factor when choosing subtitles or dubbed versions.


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## Talysia

Lol - it certainly could!  I've heard quite a lot of bad dubs in my time - mostly in anime, but there were a few in foreign cinema.  I can quite safely say that I much prefer subtitles!


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## j d worthington

I much prefer subtitles. While there are bad jobs done with this, it has improved considerably over the years, and they seem able to better capture the subtleties and nuances of the original, which can entirely alter the emotional impact of a scene (or an entire film); whereas dubbing seems to go for the lowest common denominator and just try to convey the general gist, missing all the coloring that makes for precise emotional effect.

A good example for me is what's been happening lately with some of the gialo films. We're finally getting them over here without all the heavy editing, but also in versions where you can view them either dubbed or using subtitles. It completely changes the complexion of many of these films, and the actual artistry emerges... they become much better films (still very gory and violent, but at least it not only makes sense within the film, but it often allows them to develop atmosphere much, much more fully). Or the Japanese supernatural films we've been seeing so much of the last few years ... or even the anime. (I'm thinking of Spirited Away in particular here, where I watched both versions... the subtitled captured so much more of the flavor and had so much more delicacy and eerie enchantment to it that they were virtually different films!) Watched with the dubbing, they lose enormously their ability to evoke that frisson, becoming much more flat and tame.

And, no, this doesn't apply when it's that sort of broad, idiotic kind of dubbing which seems actually intended to dumb a movie down. That's a different kettle of fish _entirely_!


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## BookStop

Generally I owuld say I'm a subtitle loving kind of girl, however there are exceptions. Cowboy Bebop I've seen both Sub and Dub, and dub is so well done that I think of the characters as speaking English with those particular voices. It's just weird otherwise. 

The movie The Returner with Takeshi Kaneshiro (great fun sf flick -family fun) is dubbed very well so I don't mind it at all. The kids love the movie too, and I don't think they would get as much out of it if we only had the sub version.(Jackie Chan movies are just fine dubbed as well - they are not necessarily of such a caliber as to need to be exact with every nuance of every word.)

Run Lola, Run is another one I've seen both version, and dub can't even come close to the brilliance of the subtitles. It's not all just getting the original meaning fully, there is something that is so natural(duh) about the original voices and inflection of words that you cannot get in dubbed movies.


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## Talysia

I know what you mean about Cowboy Bebop.  I've seen both versions, too, but the English dub just seems to fit.  Most of the Jackie Chan films I've seen have been dubbed into English, and they weren't too badly done either.
Another thing that annoys me is when a dub is so obviously rewritten from the original language into something that a western audience will understand (although this happens more in anime), retaining only a few references to the original script.  It feels like I'm watching two different versions of the same film sometimes.  I'm glad this doesn't happen so much in cinema, though.


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## Crymic

Subtitled for me all way..


Talysia said:


> Another thing that annoys me is when a dub is so obviously rewritten from the original language into something that a western audience will understand (although this happens more in anime), retaining only a few references to the original script. It feels like I'm watching two different versions of the same film sometimes. I'm glad this doesn't happen so much in cinema, though.


I totally agree. I hate the ad-libbing/line changing they do in them. They will often change names of current pop culture icons so they can relate. But, then again the company paid the money to own the rights to do whatever they want to it.

Heck they don't even need to translate it right, they could just type lines of "blah blah blah blah blah blah" and still try to sell it. Was funny a couple of years ago I went to a comic/scifi con where they had the dub actors who did tenchi muyo. I remember I did hear some booing as they went on stage.


Alot of people claim "If I wanted to read a story, I'll read a book." when I ask if they'd like to watch subtitled anime. Often wonder what's wrong with these people or maybe they're just too judgemental,lazy or just don't want to try new things. Dubs work for them I suppose.


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## Pyan

Subbed, every time. 
You understand a _lot_ more of what people say to you by watching their lips than you might imagine, and dubbing sends the wrong message to the brain.

Have you noticed, by the way, that a lot of TV adverts are being dubbed these days? Presumably they make one generic ad, then just dub the thing to match the country it's being shown in.


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## HoopyFrood

I definitely prefer subtitles. I watches *Howl's Moving Castle* with subtitles and loved it, and then watched it again when dubbed and it kind of lost it's magic. Also, it seems more effort is being put into subtitles now. I watched *Nightwatch *last year and the subtitles in that were fantastic, like at the start there is a boy having a nosebleed in a swimming pool and the blood swirls around and forms the words being spoken. _Tres_ cool.


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## Jaggy Jai

I watched afew of the vile American re-dubs of Jackie Chan and Jet Li films. More than the sickening dubbing was the new musical scores cut into the originally great films. The thing with re-dubbing is that details can be changed.....I think this may have been the case with Tsui Harks Once Upon A Time In China. In this film the Americans were shown for who they were slavers!!!! But this was altered I think?


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## Frozeninja

Subs all the way. A lot of dubbing quality is just generally bad from my experience. On some especially I find that they're more concerned with getting the lip synching right than what's actually said, resulting in some pretty terrible translations.


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## Crymic

Also there are some things that can't be dub'd. Men and women in the japanese language have 2 different words when referencing to things. A tomboy girl will tend to talk like a guy. Using "boku" instead of "atashi" when referening to ones self.

If any have played Onimusha dawn of dreams. If you played the dub version there's a line where Sosuke asks Jubei why she talks like a guy. In the dub it wouldn't make any sense. In the original japanese dialogue you can tell by the words she uses.

Jokes never make it correctly into dubs, they often use "nyari" (grin) or other verbal sound effects. 
Also repsective honor titles as well don't get transfered correctly..  It really tells you about the person they are talking about.


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## DARK_KNIGHT

Subtitled or Dubbed???

they both have their drawbacks in my opinion...

I have the same probs as every1 else when it comes to dubbing.It doesnt feel natural,it can make the movie look farcical if done badly,you cant directly dub things because there are some words that dont translate directly or that dont exist in english ect.

On the other hand...

Everone on this thread seems to be in love with subtitles,but I dont find them much better than dubbing.When a movie is subtitled you spend most of your time staring at the bottom of the screen reading whilst the action plays above the point of your attention.Because of this I find that you miss the actors expressions or that you can miss things that flash up on screen very quickly whie you are busy reading.Also sometimes if a movie is badly subtitled the speed of the subbing can vary greatly.you can be stuggling to read one piece of subbing as it is only on the screen for about a mili-second and then other times the actor is talking for about fifteen minutes after you are done reading the words!


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## Talysia

The reason I like subtitles is probably because I'm a purist.  I like to see an anime - or any type of film from another country - in its original language.  That, and because I've been watching anime for quite a while now, there have been some shocking examples of dubbing over the years.  It's improved a lot.  And it's true that there are some bad examples of subtitling - I've seen a couple.  Still, for the most part it's ok.


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## Crymic

Never buy HK rip anime dvds.. LOL they have the worst subbing ever and they often changes characters names.
Generally for subbing I tend to be picky about who I get my anime from. Yes there are alot of groups out there who will "mistranslate" stuff or use bad grammar. They tend to translate on the fly and alot of times english isn't their first language.


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## AJS

Subbed all the way. I have tried to watch dubbed anime and even when they employ big name stars the voice acting still lacks the emotional impact of the original.


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## Connavar

Dubbed sucks and to say subtitles is bad just cause you have to watch the bottom of the picture is.....


Dubbed sucks mostly cause you dont wanna hear Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee sounding like some redneck.  Its the worst sound i know.


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## raise-an-empire

Hmm, I'd definately have to choose Subtitles.
However, I disagree that people are saying you miss half of the action, I never miss a thing!

Dubbing has only been good once.  And that was with Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children.  I might be wrong but I SWEAR that film was dubbed for the English version, surely the whole film wasn't re-lipsynced?


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## Tillane

Subtitled, definitely.  I find it really difficult to watched dubbed films, even if they're done well, because they just look...wrong.  This even goes for anime, even though I realise _all_ anime is necessarily dubbed.  Watching _Akira_ or _Spirited Away_ in English just doesn't work as well.


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## j d worthington

With *Spirited Away* it didn't work at all for me, I'm afraid.... Besides, the English script was lacking in subtlety and felt aimed for the kiddies; while the subtitled was both subtle and intelligent, and multilayered....


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## scalem X

Subbed. In Belgium we have a lot of foreign shows English/American/French/... and all are subbed. I hardly read the subs anymore (in subs too there are a lot of things lost). Same goes for Japanese, I use the subs as a tool to understand stuff when I misheard or wasn't paying attention.

Dubbed can be okay I guess, but when you have a choice...


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## MontyCircus

Mhmm, subtitled for sure.

But, I wonder if I would rather see those old 70's grindhouse Gong Fu flicks (and Shogun Assassin from the Lone Wolf & Cub series) dubbed.  I've heard so many fun clips from all my Wu-Tang albums, I think it would be fun to watch them dubbed.


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## chrispenycate

raise-an-empire said:


> Hmm, I'd definately have to choose Subtitles.
> However, I disagree that people are saying you miss half of the action, I never miss a thing!
> 
> Dubbing has only been good once.  And that was with Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children.  I might be wrong but I SWEAR that film was dubbed for the English version, surely the whole film wasn't re-lipsynced?



Why not? It'd take a with-it technician perhaps three- four days to redo the lipsync with modern technology.
And practically all Hollywood films are intensively, frequently exclusively, ADR- which means the original actors (usually) but taken in a studio, to remove all the original emotion (and the original distractions) so you can concentrate on comprehensibility and clean sound without the interfering noise (added later, for verisimilitude, in carefully measured doses.


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## Overread

I will say that I do not prefer either subs or dubs. I prefer the mode which conveys to me the best story and display of emotion in the characters. JD has sighted examples of where the dubs have been worse - or lacking - in comparision to the subs; so I will offer the opposite:
In Ghost in the Shell Inoccence-  the subsmake little senese - they are badly worded and do not follow the story; whilst on the other hand the dubs do. 
Thus in the end it depends entirly on the quality of each - though I will say that there is a tendency with the dubs to aim the production (if it is anime) for a younger audience, which is wrong.


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## Starbeast

*Dubbed & Subbed*

I like both, especially if the dvd has both choices, then my mood will decide.


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## Winters_Sorrow

Talysia said:


> Also, can anyone think of examples where the dub is better than the original?


 
Yes. Hercules Returns.

Although to be fair, the redubbing of the film was the main plot point 

I think dubbing is fine so long as it's well done (the Ghibli animated movies are great dubbed) or done for comedy reasons or as a deliberate pastiche.

I usually watch films in their original language with subtitles but it's a stretch to say dubbed versions are worse. Like with most things, it depends on the love, care and effort which goes into the dub version.

Shame we don't have more European members as they have access to dubbed versions of Hollywood films and I bet there are some good (and hilariously bad) versions of those out there.

I once saw My, Myself & Irene in Norweigen (and subtitled English, Danish & Finnish subtitles) and that was a truly surreal and hilarious experience.


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## Moonbat

Also don't forget Woody Allen's *'What's Up Tiger Lilly*' but that does come into the Dubbed for comic effect category.

I have to say I prefer dubbed on martial arts films, I watched* 'Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon'* with subtitles and I missed some action because she was talking whilst kicking ass, in several of my favorite Jackie Chan/Jet Li films I have got used to the dubbing, maybe they sometimes get the translation wrong but it wouldn't do to be reading lines of text in those films.

In *Twin Warriors* Michelle Yeoh tells a crowd not to listen to Jun Bo (or is it Jin Bo) after he has killed their leader and taken control of the army because, and I quote from Dubbing 'He's Wrong'

Also in *Drunken Master* my favorite line is when the assasin beats up Jackie Chan and then tells him to 'Crawl through my legs and then go and clean toilets' priceless 

But having said all that, Subtitled is usually better because the actors act with their voices and the dubbing actors are not as good at the whole conveying emotion thing. Could you say that all modern Animated films are dubbed as the 'actors' perform the voices which in essence is dubbing. Then again cartoons can't talk.


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## Fried Egg

I do tend to prefer subtitles to dubbing mainly because subtitles are usually of a higher quality. If I could be sure that the dubbing was of a high standard I would prefer it dubbed. 

Unfortunately this is not normally the case. For instance I recently watched "The Girl Who Lept Through Time" and the dubbing was just plain awful. Really annoying American accents where the actual dialog was changed to incorporate American teen slang. I switched it over to subtitles and it was much better.

The drawback though is that you _do_ have to split your attention between the picture and the words. And I really don't like doing that when I would rather be taking in the beautiful drawing or wonderfully choreographed martial arts action.

In films where they are more about the dialogue, like a lot of French films, I will take subtitles everytime.


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## Rodders

My personal preference would be subtitles every time. I don't mind reading the lines and i don't mind hearing the original language. I just cannot take a film seriously when the lips don't match the words. I can't even stand it if a DVD i'm watching losses its sync between film and soundtrack.


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## Connavar

Dubbing is like those books for dummies.  Are you telling you cant read subtitles 

The dubbing i can take only when i have no choice and its an old Hong Kong martial arts film that lets the action speak for itself and not the dialouge.


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## Fried Egg

Films are supposed to be about the combination of audio and visual. Ideally, you should be hearing the characters talk. It is only because of watching films in another language that this dilemma arises. Reading subtitles is no more (intrinsincally) accurate or natural than listening to an overdub. But reading subtitles does divert you from the full cinematic experience. It just happens to be the case that it is a price worth paying in most cases because the overdubbing is usually so bad.


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## Connavar

Fried Egg said:


> Films are supposed to be about the combination of audio and visual. Ideally, you should be hearing the characters talk. It is only because of watching films in another language that this dilemma arises. Reading subtitles is no more (intrinsincally) accurate or natural than listening to an overdub. But reading subtitles does divert you from the full cinematic experience. It just happens to be the case that it is a price worth paying in most cases because the overdubbing is usually so bad.



It doesnt divert you if you are used to it.  I watch english spoken films with swedish subtitles not because i need it but because thats the choice when you go to cinema or watch tv films.  I also watch DVD of english films without swedish subtitles on my own and the differene i see both versions is very little.  Our brain is powerful enough to watch,read at the same 

The dubbing can be good doesnt matter but to me the original language makes a film more satisfiying,real to me.

You watch french,asian films to hear other languages,see other cultures.

Not watch a film like that with a Texas sounding dub voice.


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## No One

Have to add another cry of SUBTITLES! to the general consensus. Every. Single. Time (except maybe for Akira, where I'm fond of the more emotive dubbed voices).

When, years ago, I recommended _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_ to my brother, he got back to me saying he coldn't watch it, because the dubbed voices were stupid. Needless to say, my jaw hit the floor - it never having even occured to me that someone would watch something like that without the subtitles. I still remind him of that. Quite often too.


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