# Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)



## Cli-Fi (Nov 22, 2016)

I'm not sure what to classify Movies that turn into TV series and vice versa. Would they be considered Franchises? 

TNT Orders ‘Snowpiercer’ Pilot Based On Movie From Tomorrow Studios


----------



## Rodders (Nov 22, 2016)

Okay. Not really sure what they can do with this. Still, it could be interesting.


----------



## AlexH (Feb 16, 2020)

The Snowpiercer trailer was out 6 months ago:






I found the film disappointing, and this looks better!


----------



## HareBrain (Feb 16, 2020)

I read the graphic novel a while back. It was pretty nonsensical, and reviews I read suggest the film was the same. When a story has such a flimsy sense of reality and its only real point is as metaphor, you wonder how they can stretch it out into a series.


----------



## BAYLOR (Feb 16, 2020)

HareBrain said:


> I read the graphic novel a while back. It was pretty nonsensical, and reviews I read suggest the film was the same. When a story has such a flimsy sense of reality and its only real point is as metaphor, you wonder how they can stretch it out into a series.



Ive tried watching the movie on several occasions and it just doesn't hold my interest at all.


----------



## ctg (May 18, 2020)

The first episode is out on TNT. In the UK and elsewhere, the series will be available on week instalments at Netflix, starting from next Monday with dual episodes.


----------



## ctg (May 18, 2020)

First of all, the plot doesn't follow the original French comics (Le Transperceneige) completely. TNT has altered it, but at the same time, it doesn't follow the movie either. But the premise is the same, weather changed, poles melted and caused a massive flooding, but even then the temperatures kept rising. The situation was looking dire, so the humanity did the only thing they could and they applied science on a last Hail Mary effort. So, they produced a chemical agent and loaded it into the rockets, before they were launched into the sky but as it always with the unproven technology, the cooling effect was too much and Earth plunged into another ice-age. But instead of just occupying one pole, the whole world froze over, completely. 

The humanity needed saving so Mister Wilford devised a plot and invented a machine that was going to circumvent around the world in a train that consist 1001 one cars. One of them being the engine. Instead of doing a lottery or some other clever thing, the rich bought their way into this doomsday device to save their skin. Before it left, the "poor people" broke into the yard and gained access to the Snowpiercer. Thus they became passengers, the last humans on Earth.  



Spoiler: S01E01 - The Weather Changed



Thing is they don't show other trains at the beginning, but if you're going to do one, you might do other ones, including prototypes. So it might be plausible to think that there are other trains, following the same tracks going through the icy landscape. I did find it alarming that the temperatures were consistently under -120 Celsius, as if Earth were in a constant shadow instead of moving through the goldilock zone.

Thing is, if you look Moon, the temperatures vary between +85 and -125 Celcius. During the daytime it is baking hot, while in the Lunar night you're going to freeze your bollocks. Completely. Unless you have proper suit that keep you alive. So, while everything if frozen it is plausible to think that some has survived in the underground shelters, and they venture outside in special suits. It's just you are not going to see them from a moving train. Another thing that they showed was the green cars, with sunlight filtering through the roof to do photosynthesis on the plants, even though some of them are lighted up artificially. 

It is intriguing to see that the light in the green cars was purple, just like you get today from Led grow lamps. Therefore you might think that those in the underground shelter are surviving in a similar way. Another similarity might be the order as we humans then to do the pyramid naturally. On top of the Snowpiercer is the mysterious Mister Wilford, while at the bottom at the people at the tail. Funny how true all of this sounds during this Covid-19 pandemic. We too have experienced the wealthy going hiding in the underground shelters, or in remote locations. Some even have bought themselves whole castles to self-isolate, while the islands are on a top demand.

When you think about it, nothing is going to work without people. The machines last only so long before they need maintenance. In a train like Snowpiercer, there are a lot of moving parts. Eventually things will wear out. It's just how the way things are unfortunately. Except in this case, the train is set to circumvent Earth for over sixty years. 

You would think that keeping it going would be the number one priority, but it isn't. It's the people and their problems that cause incident in the train, as we saw Detective Layton finding out all of suddenly. Although that was one death, they were ready to commit a small murder at the tail even though they needed them. The elite are never going to commit themselves to physical work.

It is just too much, even though that's exactly what has happened during the Covid-19. You go in hiding in one of those bunkers or lonely islands, and you're going to have to do the work. There's not going to be a situation, where you can all of suddenly have slaves doing the work, or even those robots. The automation is a luxury, but it also needs maintenance. Something that the robots cannot do, yet. 

Even then and even if you're always going to need material to produce supplies, because nothing can last the test of time. Everything has an end date. Funny how in the Snowpiercer it starts with a murder. Do you think it was done by an elite?


----------



## REBerg (May 19, 2020)

Watched the opening TNT episode.
Interesting, but it didn't make sense to me. Humans froze the world, and the solution was to build a giant train?
Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?
I'll watch a few more episodes for answers, but I don't expect to be hooked by the conflicts between the haves and the have-nots trapped inside 1,000 railroad cars.


----------



## HareBrain (May 19, 2020)

REBerg said:


> Humans froze the world, and the solution was to build a giant train?
> Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?
> I'll watch a few more episodes for answers



There weren't answers in the graphic novel (nor the movie as far as I can tell) so I think you might be out of luck. If you can think of a halfway sensible explanation, maybe you could sell it to the showrunners to be used in a future series.


----------



## ctg (May 19, 2020)

REBerg said:


> Is movement supposed to keep it warm? What does it use for fuel? Where's it going?



It is not going anywhere. It is just a mobile bunker, doing everlasting circles around the world as it explores places that has started thawing or showing sings of going back to normal. The fuel is explained with a perpetual engine. It is not going to stop unless it's stopped. But equally as good explanation could be a mini-nuclear reactor. Those fuel supplies last for decades, but the vehicles has to be stopped, whenever they refuel.

The series is somewhat classical SF rather than hard SF. And there's more into the social science than anything else. But think for a moment them developing an epidemic in the train. They would be effed.


----------



## -K2- (May 19, 2020)

Or...

The train could simply be a metaphor for an oppressive totalitarian government, with tremendous wealth disparity (top to bottom, front to back), as it plows through every obstacle like an army marching on peaceful nations, and the great lengths (threats and temptations to not) it takes for the little guy to reach the head to derail/bring-down the government, naturally with conspirators among you to maintain the status quo, knowing that as bad as it is if you stop this malevolent locomotive of control then everyone dies. So you either submit and accept it, or everyone perishes.

Silly thought, I realize. 

Why I'm writing what I am...since comparatively, a collapse of the American government, with everyone compressing into a tiny region to survive is more plausible than some wacky choo-choo.

K2


----------



## -K2- (May 19, 2020)

Oh, p.s.: About the only thing I really cared for in the original movie was the acting of the two henchmen:






That lack of emotion--most of all lack of empathy, not even understanding the concept--flat and robotic is how a psychopath acts. They're typically not some wild, flamboyant caricature of malevolent evil. That's what's scary about them. They just do what they do not having the slightest understanding as to why it is wrong. To explain it to them, makes zero sense to them. No rage, no joy, no hopes, no regret. *shudder*

Fantastic acting to remain so detached.

K2


----------



## REBerg (May 19, 2020)

ctg said:


> It is not going anywhere. It is just a mobile bunker, doing everlasting circles around the world as it explores places that has started thawing or showing sings of going back to normal.


It would make more sense to build a well-insulated underground bunker to house the survivors. From there, they could send out smaller, more efficient trains or other vehicles to scout for environmental change in multiple directions. Of course, each exploration would produce some ingredient to be mixed into the season finale.


ctg said:


> The fuel is explained with a perpetual engine. It is not going to stop unless it's stopped. But equally as good explanation could be a mini-nuclear reactor.


I'd buy the nuclear reactor explanation, which could also keep the bunker toasty.


-K2- said:


> The train could simply be a metaphor for an oppressive totalitarian government, with tremendous wealth disparity (top to bottom, front to back), as it plows through every obstacle like an army marching on peaceful nations, and the great lengths (threats and temptations to not) it takes for the little guy to reach the head to derail/bring-down the government, naturally with conspirators among you to maintain the status quo, knowing that as bad as it is if you stop this malevolent locomotive of control then everyone dies. So you either submit and accept it, or everyone perishes.
> 
> Silly thought, I realize.
> 
> Why I'm writing what I am...since comparatively, a collapse of the American government, with everyone compressing into a tiny region to survive is more plausible than some wacky choo-choo.


Probably the former, although I like the "wacky choo-choo" concept. That could be spun off into a children's series. 



Spoiler



Another question I had as I watched the premiere: Why the hell are they tolerating the tailers? The Snowpiercer PD obviously has the muscle to rid the train of these snowaway stowaways. Why don't they go in, slaughter them and lighten the load? Are they being kept as a talent pool in case they need another detective or maybe a hairstylist? Maybe a meat supply?


----------



## ctg (May 19, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Why the hell are they tolerating the tailers? The Snowpiercer PD obviously has the muscle to rid the train of these snowaway stowaways. Why don't they go in, slaughter them and lighten the load? Are they being kept as a talent pool in case they need another detective or maybe a hairstylist? Maybe a meat supply?



Because they need them. The garden lady came from the tail, so did the detective. The elite couldn't handle the business. They are only good at being posh and oppressive. Look at the teenager wanting to go to third class as an example. She was bored out her mind, while the parents were trying to take their lives as a holiday. Thirty years of that and I'm sure they're willing to do something else. For now they are being posh.

I suspect the elite is directly related to the murder. We just don't know the motive.


----------



## ctg (May 20, 2020)

> Depending on which car a character inhabits aboard the titular train of TNT’s *Snowpiercer*, there are going to be very different definitions of what constitutes “survival.” For Andre Layton, the show’s male lead played by Daveed Diggs, only the bare minimum needs have been met until the day outlined in the series premiere when he was called forward to investigate a murder. We spoke to Diggs about life in the poorest section of the train and what we can expect out of Layton in the episodes to come.











						Snowpiercer: Surviving in the Tail | Den of Geek
					

Snowpiercer star Daveed Diggs talks about what it takes to overcome the inequalities aboard a train containing humanity’s last survivors.




					www.denofgeek.com


----------



## ctg (May 25, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E02 - Prepare to Brace



I missed last week the bit from the end where Mr Wilford turned out to be Stephanie, the conductor. It was included at the end of the first episode and it completely twists the movie. Still we didn't get to see the engine, but maybe we'll get lucky soon to find out what drives the train. 

If you look at the instruments you'll notice that the train is receiving data from a satellite, which is interesting because in the course of time, they'll run out of fuel or their instruments develop malfunctions. It's just if they're weather satellites, it's intriguing to know that some one is making sure they still work. Would they work whole sixty years? I doubt it. 






I loved and hated the famous freezing hand scene. It is such a cruel punishment and I hated that they tried to do it to a little girl first. Her mum had no choice but to give up her arm for the life of her child. All while that bitch Ruth just kept smiling in her pompous outfit. Who the hell needs a furcoat indoors? The animals are mostly gone and yet, she's wearing it like her pride. 

Well, I don't think there's any redemption for her. Ruth is on the kill list for being complete ruthless [several expletives deleted]. Yet, somehow the elite has to have someone like her keeping the order. Almost as if there is no choice, even though Mr Wilford is a turncoat. If she really is as smart as the show makes her, why can't she invent a better, more equal system? 

They showed that she had a baby, which she most likely lost before the train trip. Yet, she's not struck down by grief. It's almost like she has severed that empathy link and all her life is now running the train. Even though she could have suspended herself to live in tomorrow world, it's not her aim. It's almost as if she's an overseer of the experiment. Some gamers could associate her role to the Vault Overseers from the Fallout series. 

What surprised me was that her engineers has to keep repeatedly "hacking old Russian weather satellites." Which is strange, because once you've a route, you use it and it's not very likely that Russian would launch an operation on the train to stop them from hacking.   

The conversation in the dining car revealed that in this world you also have to kill, and it was the big freeze, which showed the people that there is need for the animal to come on surface. Although in this world there are no dead. So some people might have manipulated their way into the train then killing their way. Which is interesting because it makes the whole upperclass as sociopaths. 

Did they kill because they needed to calm down their urge or was there another motive? Stephanie is out of the question, but her motive to investigate the murder is also questionable. Is she scared that murdering might lead to something? Is the murderer going to receive a corporal punishment or maybe cast down to the tail?






Nightcar. The first scene of crime. Although a cool concept, I personally hated the place. People dancing, while wearing a prop angel wings was so corrupting. Why would you need such a thing in a train? A good question, but when you think about it, you definitely want to have something that can provide escapism to the weary traveller. 

Not that it turned out to be a brothel, but a mediation alcove. Very unlikely place for the murder to happen. A contemplation maybe, but the autopsy revealed that the strange meat isn't just a tail delicacy. The whole fricking train is into it, and some people obviously love it. But why to remove man's genitalia? 

I don't get it, and I doubted that it was the butchers, who done it. It didn't make sense, unless there's a blackmarket for the rare meat, when they had a train car full of beef. Stephanie called it's destruction as an extinction event, even though they still have the gardens and freezers full of meat products. Some even for the human lovers. 

So why is that things in the upper body didn't end in the airing duct? Is there something that the cannibals don't like?

Clayton cleverly figured out that it was all about the secrets. In other words I suspect Mr Wilford's order is just a card house and they are all one step from complete anarchy if the truth would be revealed. So why is it that nobody hasn't come to blackmail Stephanie?


----------



## REBerg (May 25, 2020)

It's easier to watch this if I push the whole giant train perpetually circling the globe thing to the back of my mind. I'm looking at it as a sort of supersized _Murder on the Orient Express_.


Spoiler



The victim was murdered to harvest his limbs for the train black market meat supply? Are the first class passengers that bored, or are they just tired of beef? It didn't appear that the kitchen was in short supply, especially the flash-frozen variety after the avalanche.
I expected Andre to break out laughing after telling tale of gang cannibalism and heart-eating in the tail. It didn't happen, but I still wondered if he was telling a locomotive urban legend.


----------



## ctg (May 25, 2020)

REBerg said:


> I'm looking at it as a sort of supersized _Murder on the Orient Express_.



Yes, with mixed in Westworld. I don't get how the standard speed can affect the train so much, but it does. So, it's easier to think it as a giant murder castle, and the poor people has been in it for seven years. Unable to escape. 



Spoiler






REBerg said:


> The victim was murdered to harvest his limbs for the train black market meat supply? Are the first class passengers that bored, or are they just tired of beef?



I don't think think that they are bored, but the murderer is in second or third class. They might get order from the first class, proving a conspiracy behind the whole thing. I would be surprised if the doctor itself is somehow involved into the whole thing. He certainly would have the skills and a brain to frame things. The strange meat might be someone sick joke and it is played on upper classes, making the murder possible being originally from the tail. 

It is all too early to tell why the flesh market exist. We don't even have idea of how many actually made to the train and how many survived the first seven years on the track. 



REBerg said:


> It didn't appear that the kitchen was in short supply, especially the flash-frozen variety after the avalanche.



Why they only had one car reserved for the cattle? Why they put all the eggs in one basket?

Another interesting fact is that they are collecting excraments for fuelling methane generators. Why aren't they using human waste for that and why aren't they making fertilizer from it, when the facts are that it's full of nitrates. Cows might far more but they are not the only source for the gas. Even today you can get gas generators for your house and do the whole biogas thing in your backyard. 

Also where are they getting feed for the cattle? It's not like they have a huge amount of space to make hay. In theory the train works, but in the practice there are lots of problems.


----------



## Rodders (May 25, 2020)

It’s coming to Netflix on the 25th. I’ll watch it then.


----------



## ctg (May 25, 2020)

Rodders said:


> It’s coming to Netflix on the 25th. I’ll watch it then.



Man, today is 25th. I checked it on Netflix today. It was there and I used for the episodic review.


----------



## svalbard (May 26, 2020)

I am a big fan of the movie, thought it was one of the best pieces of Sci-Fi made in recent years, so I was interested in what they were going to do with this. I was full sure they weren't going to follow the movie and they haven't. 

The murder plot story line is a good hook and should keep me entertained for a while.

As for the plausibility of a train sustaining human life through an ice age. I never gave it much thought because if I did there is no way I would have ended up watching such a dumb idea for a movie


----------



## ctg (May 26, 2020)

svalbard said:


> As for the plausibility of a train sustaining human life through an ice age. I never gave it much thought because if I did there is no way I would have ended up watching such a dumb idea for a movie



Yeah. I agree it's more like the series is a long stretch of catastrophe porn. There is no hope for the survivors or is there, can they turn around the series and show progression in the survival aspect?


----------



## REBerg (May 26, 2020)

I could find only the movie version on my Netflix. Maybe TNT has a lock on it until it completes its run.


----------



## ctg (May 26, 2020)

REBerg said:


> I could find only the movie version on my Netflix. Maybe TNT has a lock on it until it completes its run.



Maybe in the US it's only available through TNT. But here's a proof that it can be found in the Netflix.


----------



## svalbard (May 26, 2020)

I watched it on Netflix last night.


----------



## REBerg (May 26, 2020)

ctg said:


> Maybe in the US it's only available through TNT. But here's a proof that it can be found in the Netflix.


I believed you. The U.S. version is the one I've got.


----------



## ctg (Jun 1, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E03 - Access is POWER!!!



Well, here we go and nobody guesses. RFID chips. 

Man, it explains the chopped off bodyparts, completely. Funny thing is they didn't deny the strange meat market. All of that came out last week and nobody denied. Everythign is for sale in the train and access to things is more valuable than information. 

Although, when you think about it, you might reach a conclusion that the information about the access devices is very valuable, but it shouldn't be unknown thing in the tail. Somebody knows, but nobody is sharing. Not for free, anyway, even if the Tail seems like a big social experiment where everyone has same goal. 

Layton deviced a lockpick from a piece of wire, and boy did it work. LOL. More stupid thing is the RFID chips. The problem that the tail faces is access to the electronics to be able to create wands to capture these signals. After that they only need to repeat the signal to the reader and door will open.

Mr Wilson therefore made a double cockup. First, the locks are being able to opened with amateur picks. Second, the chips can be cloned. If I put my Pen Testing Hat on it is a major flaw in the security. Therefore it opens up the whole train for whatever the tail needs to do to achieve their revolution.

I was pleasently surprised that Melanie knew nothing about Kronole and how vastly it is used in the tail sections. The thing that troubles me is the hedonistic front section. To them the sex is a device to addiction, while to tailies it's love or a trade item. In other words, Mr Wilford seems to be blind to the state of "his" train. And society they've created by adapting all the bad elements from the historic cultures. 

I was pleased to find out an underworld boss straight in the third class. He probably supplies all the train up to the engine. Just keeping short of his exposure to the elements. Also I'm glad that they explained the drug with the suspecion cycle. No wonder people are full of space cookies after they've taken it, probably seeing all sorts of things. 

What I don't get is why the doctor didn't give the witness real drug?

Will the skinhead murder get killed before Melanie gets him? Who is going to replace the medical technician?


----------



## ctg (Jun 8, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E03 - Without their maker



It annoys me that they'll talk about adaptation in the beginning and yet the writing doesn't show it. In fact, nothing changed, except everyone has to kill to survive in the Snowpiercer's world. The adaptation in the train isn't working. It is all the same. Not different. 

The problem that our belowed hero, the train detective has is that the people aren't adapting to his precense, even though he feels like a permanent fixture to the play, because there is no way he's going back to the tail again. Not with his secrets. Not with everything that he has learned about the corruption running wild in the train.

Honestly, it feels there is nothing but corruption. 






Look at that map. It's strange. Everything is there, but it looks misplaced. Some countries also look a bit abnormal. And then there's the Antartica, which has been placed in where New Zealand used to be. You could assume that it's because of the weather, but I rather think that their world is parallel to ours, and by following Einstein's Crust Displacement Theory, their continents drifted differently... or then their world turned out wonky.

There is also that strategy poster in the cabin door that I don't get. It shows all the basic moves, and not a puzzle, which I'd think Melanie needs. She said, "I wish I could do some welding," which suggest that she built most part of the train. And being the train conductor is probably the least appealing job on board. 

She could probably just drive the train and let the passenger cars take care of itself, but it would cause problems since she disappeared, and the power struggle in the train would explode.






Why the hitman left first class tokens in the third class bar and then head towards the tail? It's not like he's the serial killer that Clayton thinks he is, but just a stupid henceman. Frankly, he's unlikely to be able to discuise himself as a tail passenger, which leaves that under carriage route that he has used before. So, why not to use it in the first place? 

More curious thing is the bodyguards. Why the first class would need them? Is it really a protection against the tail or against the other elite members? Honestly it feels like they are a show piece and in the real fight, not so useful. How could they stop the revolution coming from the behind, if the people really would start an uprise? 

There are so many questions, and no real answers. The only thing I really liked about the killer background is the marine. A jarhead, which explains why the man didn't think it all through. They will teach how to kill in the service, but not on how to hide one's intentions. 

I laughed out loud on Erik's demise. He really didn't think it through, and neither did the soldiers. Then again neither did Lilah. She was certain that Clayton was going to fall on her lap like everything else. Seeing her in the jail made me laugh even louder.

That bitch deserved worse and I only wonder why they didn't throw her in the tail? Why keep her in the brig?


----------



## REBerg (Jun 8, 2020)

Spoiler



I thought LJ was just a bored little rich girl, so I was surprised that the turned out to be a psychopath. I had wondered what was motivating the killer. He was either incredibly stupid or just as insane as the girl -- maybe both.
I don't see the point of putting Andre on ice. As the central character, he can't stay in a drawer for long. Yeah, he knows too much to go back to the tail, but Melanie can control where he goes while keeping him handy for investigating more crimes sure to come.
(Speaking of characters, anyone else notice TWD's "Simon" (Steven Ogg) among the tailers?)
Another question: Why to all the interior scenes appear to be so rock-steady? Despite the train's gigantic size, shouldn't everything inside be at least gently swaying as the 1,001 cars speed around the world?


----------



## ctg (Jun 9, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I thought LJ was just a bored little rich girl, so I was surprised that the turned out to be a psychopath. I had wondered what was motivating the killer. He was either incredibly stupid or just as insane as the girl -- maybe both.



Pussy is strong motivator. Greeks sent ten thousand men after Helen, so why not one man gets custom to the priviledged life of the first class. Honestly, he might have even imagined that there's nothing that can potentially harm him. Certainly not his girlfriend. And at the end, he might even inherit the place as man to continue the family. The parent must have realised that there's no other suitors around to give Lilith.

What did she do with the cut off balls and sausages?



REBerg said:


> I don't see the point of putting Andre on ice. As the central character, he can't stay in a drawer for long.



Sure he can't, but who's going to rescue him from the cryotube? Nobody. They don't simply have an access or resources to get there. I suspect there's going to be another murder and Melanie has no choice but to bring him out. Thing is, we saw that tailie women getting to places and they came to inform her that Clayton's has gone missing. Is she now in charge of the tail?

In the movie (sorry don't have money to buy the comic set) there was a leader in the tail and in the engine. I think it should happen as well and they should give these people time to shine instead of the show being about Clayton or Melanie.



REBerg said:


> (Speaking of characters, anyone else notice TWD's "Simon" (Steven Ogg) among the tailers?)



In the drawer where he belongs. Do not bring him out. You all going to die if you do. LOL.



REBerg said:


> Why to all the interior scenes appear to be so rock-steady?



I get that you American's don't get to travel in the trains, but we do and there's minimal amount of shaking. You hardly feel it. That train also has huge amount of mass, so if it shakes from small bumps, it should not be able to do annual trips. Speaking of which, why to maintain constant high speed? Is there another train in the track? Do they have a timetable with no stops? What if they stop inside a mountain passage that's over kilometre long... is that going to be too freezing place as well?


----------



## REBerg (Jun 9, 2020)

ctg said:


> why to maintain constant high speed? Is there another train in the track? Do they have a timetable with no stops? What if they stop inside a mountain passage that's over kilometre long... is that going to be too freezing place as well?


As long as the survival bunker is a train, it may as well be highballing. Just slowly chugging along wouldn't be nearly as exciting.


----------



## ctg (Jun 15, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E05 - Justice Never Boarded



I think Melanie is blind to what is happening in her train. She cannot understand what the lockdown and class divination means to their people like we do. It's interesting that in their world, they never experienced the Covid-19 pandemic and what it did to the people. 

In a way it's strange because they also talked about the weather change and how the scientists solved the problem by bombing the sky. But before that happened there must have been all sorts of crisis that all somehow deepened the chasm between the normals and the elite. 

The only thing elite about them is their money, but what does it really mean at the end... in a train that literally uses its own monetary system. Maybe there is a suggestion in the old saying, "Eat The Rich," that Melanie always intended to use the elite as last buffer between them and her. 

I wasn't surprised that Lilith parents tried to use their old tactics to save their troubled child. It infuriates me that they really didn't see anything but their privileged position in this weird society that is in midst of a turmoil.  And what the hell was the play with Dad's eyeball? 

Who does that? "Oh Daddy please, can I suck your ball? The eyeball..."

Man, the elite are weird. It's like their are removed from rest of the society by their access to the wealth but it doesn't make them elite by the definition, because nothing they do is at top of the class. Think about it.

I do admit that it would be difficult to form a society for everyone inside the moving coffin, but they could try to do the same thing as what we seen in the Trek. In a way Melanie is the Captain of their vessel, but the passengers are not far from those that migrated from Europe to America. The Titanic movie  showed what was it like in the historical context. 

Nevertheless Audrey's and Melanies conversation revealed that the Snowpiercer is five miles long. If you do a quick search, you can find out that the longest train tunnel is THIRTY FIVE miles long in Swiss Alps. And the thing about it is that it has a station in it. So, instead of blowing through the endless frozen landscapes they should periodically stop the train, before it really turns to a coffin. There is only so much fury that a scorned woman can pass, before it explodes. 

Frankly, after all this time, their society is in a need for R&R or they'll face full blown anarchy. Not that it's not in the books after the detective went into the drawers. Just like Lilith's mum told to dear old daddy-o. Although I don't know how they would get their people back in the train if they stopped?


----------



## REBerg (Jun 16, 2020)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> And what the hell was the play with Dad's eyeball?


Other than being exceptionally gross, it was LJ's way of playing daddy's little girl, underwriting his unconditional support for his darling teenage psycho. It was even more disturbing that the  prosthesis  was the result of LJ's skewering pop's original peeper with a dinner fork while throwing a tantrum as a 7-year-old. Amazing how quickly LJ's scared kid look was replaced by her more typical calculating nutcase face after she escaped being sent to the drawers.


ctg said:


> they also talked about the weather change and how the scientists solved the problem by bombing the sky


As I remember, the sky bombing was intended to block the sun to counter global warning, but it went a little too far and froze the planet to the core. If that's the case, why are they showing so much sunny, blue sky whenever one of the underprivileged gets to gander out a window?


----------



## ctg (Jun 16, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> why are they showing so much sunny, blue sky whenever one of the underprivileged gets to gander out a window?



Well, up North and in winter, sunny skies always means extra cold temperatures, because there is no cloud cover providing heat element. I think the sunshine is there to provide a reminder to the Tailies that it's a privilege to have a window. Funny thing is the cattle had rows of windows.


----------



## ctg (Jun 22, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E06 - Trouble Comes Sideways



So Jinju knows Melanie's secret. I was surprised seeing her in that cabin, among all the notes and things. That is quite a thing and it's another nail in Mr Wilford's coffin. 

It is as if they've built a house of cards, and there's only so many knocks that it can take before there's full riot happening in the train. Like I said they need to stop for maintainance even if they've perpetually powered engine. Think about it. Being able to stretch your legs, feel that biting cold turning you numb in a matter of moments. 

-140 C that they keep repeating in the morning announcements isn't so bad that humans cannot overcome it. Frankly I'm surprised that there isn't more spacesuited breach workers. It's not like they are running out of people, even if there has been murders. People still copulate. Even Tailies get their kicks in... sometimes.

I watched five times the break scene. It was a bolt that snapped in the hook, when they were lifting the electric engine. It fell in the subsection and somehow caused a hydraulic malfunction. What I don't get is how a cable outside, underneath the train could fix the whole thing? 

It was like magic, when usually the hydraulic breaks are not solved quickly. Not in minutes. But... we so rarely get SF series that takes mechanics seriously. It's a rare thing and I can only count a very few that has taken the unsung heroes to the small screen. B5 is among them.

So what do you think did the malfunction cause more problems or is everything fixed now?


----------



## REBerg (Jun 23, 2020)

Spoiler



Finally, actual train-related action!
Melanie is not only the administrative figurehead holding Snowpiercer Society together, she's the engineering action hero holding the whole physical train together. Good thing the train's gyrations kept Layton from cutting her throat.
What were all those liquids oozing and running down equipment in the opening -- blood and other bodily fluids from another murder victim? I thought they were the cause of the short, but that theory didn't seem to pan out when the repair crew got down to business. 


ctg said:


> So what do you think did the malfunction cause more problems or is everything fixed now?


Seems like it's all fixed, for the time being. Now, the focus can shift back to the less riveting internal class struggles.


----------



## ctg (Jun 23, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> What were all those liquids oozing and running down equipment in the opening -- blood and other bodily fluids from another murder victim?



I thought they were coming from a kitchen or something. Whatever it was, it took some time to get into the junction box to cause a short in the hydraulic equipment. Honestly, to me it looked like grease or some sort of bomb making material. LOL. 



REBerg said:


> Finally, actual train-related action!



Yeah and I bet there's more to come. I first wrote around 250 words on it, before I deleted it and decided to go with the short version. It's just when you think about it, there cannot be much of train related action, because all the major tension is coming from the people inside. These writers aren't capable of pushing the envelope and frankly there's no need.



REBerg said:


> Now, the focus can shift back to the less riveting internal class struggles.



You mean the upcoming revolution?


----------



## ctg (Jul 6, 2020)

Apologies for skipping the seventh and posting this. I watched the seventh on late last Thursday, but if you've been watching you already know where this heading. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

Let's see if this reaches the heights of the Preacher in the violence department. The movie was extremely unpleasant, when things kicked in, but I expect there to be modesty in the series.


----------



## ctg (Jul 6, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E08 - These are his revolutions



The biggest mistake Melanie did in the previous episode was to get rude at Ruth. She came to her to tell that there is ill mood brewing in the first class, while there is a whole revolution ready to kick in the aft department.

I get that Melanie was pissed for losing a subject after a good fight, but frankly, she needs to go. What I am scared is the destiny of Miles and Miles. He is obviously as a pawn in the game and he's not the first one Melanie has been speaking, asking to do things. 

But... I don't think there's anyone who's ready to helm the train. So essentially the revenge shouldn't be part of the revolution. They need the three engineers in the Sacred Engine or they're all doomed. Although you might be able to kill one of them, but you need at least two, if you're going to run an operation after the dust is settled.

What amazes me that the trouble is kicking in both ends. Not just in aft section, but also in the first class. So, while Melanie could disconnect the aft, she cannot lose rest of the train or they are all totally effed. Royally I might say. It's just I didn't expect that red head psycho to be the one to break out the news to the ruling family of the first class. 

I kind of get that they managed to convince the chief of security with LJ's hush-hush operation in the engine, but turning Ruth is whole another matter. That woman is kind of stubborn in her beliefs. But not totally as she was heading the prosecution.

Also I do have to admit that it was a clever plan for the First to do their "council meeting," before Layton made his. And again I wasn't expecting him to turn himself in as a prisoner. Just like wasn't expecting Ruth wanting blood after she realised Melanie's betrayal. 

Frankly, for a while I've been thinking that Nolan's and Ruth's 'marriage' is like forming a kingdom. We don't know for sure how the first one were done and whose idea was it, but essentially there must have been some blood spillage, because the Royalties doesn't get the job without some sacrifices. At least they are not claiming it for the 'Common Good.'






Layton's arrival to the Tail was treated as if he was a Messiah. There is similarities of Muad-Dib and Layton, both leading a desperate fight against the oppressive first class that has deprived them of everything. You Cuba and Castro's and you might be on right path, but it's just it wasn't whole world as at the moment we know that both Snowpiercer and Dune were civilisation clashes. Not just a bit of change in the ruling parties.

Thing is there is awfully lot of space and people between the Tail and the Sacred Engine. What put me down was how easily the Breakman listed to the words of wisdom. I was expecting them to least have a few punches before the showdown with the Commander's forces. 

I loved that the Tailies made up a scorpion for the fight in the tunnels. It was amazing to see those bolts going down the range to do an awful job on the Jackboots. Honestly, I would not have Nolan to stand up and tell his men to advance while he went to strike flank. 

The fight in the Nightcar did shatter my sense of disbelief. For a moment it looked like there was too many people and some guys get repeatedly dying. I mean, how many proper fighters would you get in the train? They need space to train, they need equipment, and they need lot of calories to keep up the muscles.

Now, they've been on this trek for seven years. Appearently there has been other revolutions, but not one as messy as this. I seriously doubt that Melanie could have put up a battalion size element in the train and kept them all in proper shape. After all the fighters cannot stand still and if there has been fights before, then they must have lost some troops.

So, how many people Nolan has? A hundred?

Personally I think he has thirty left and Pike. Is Pike really selling Layton to the First?


----------



## REBerg (Jul 6, 2020)

ctg said:


> Let's see if this reaches the heights of the Preacher in the violence department. The movie was extremely unpleasant, when things kicked in, but I expect there to be modesty in the series.


I wouldn't expect the violence here to rise to the level of _Preacher, _wherein being literally ankle-deep in blood and guts was all in good fun. _Snowpiercer_ takes itself way too seriously for that.



Spoiler



The shocker in last week's episode was the death of Josie. I don't know of Melanie would have killed her if it had not come down to a matter of self-preservation. She was willing to torture her, however, despite her adverse reaction to removing a finger. Her claim this week that she, not Wilford, built the train, explains her willingness to do whatever it takes to keeping the thing going.



ctg said:


> But... I don't think there's anyone who's ready to helm the train. So essentially the revenge shouldn't be part of the revolution. They need the three engineers in the Sacred Engine or they're all doomed. Although you might be able to kill one of them, but you need at least two, if you're going to run an operation after the dust is settled.


Yes, I would be astonished if they execute Melanie. They need her more than the other two engineers.  Miles isn't quite ready to fill her shoes.


ctg said:


> The fight in the Nightcar did shatter my sense of disbelief. For a moment it looked like there was too many people and some guys get repeatedly dying. I mean, how many proper fighters would you get in the train?


Spacious as it is, the Snowpiercer does not have space for a large-scale, hand-to-hand battle. I've always how combatants can determine who to chop and skewer in a wide open field of flailing arms, let alone in a confined space. I also thought that Layton wasted a lot of time rallying the troops when he got to the tail. They were ready without any inspiring words.
Two-hour season finale next week. I'm guessing that the rebellion will be over, one way or the other, and everyone will wonder how Melanie held the whole arrangement together as long as she did.
Are they planning another season?


----------



## ctg (Jul 6, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I don't know of Melanie would have killed her if it had not come down to a matter of self-preservation. She was willing to torture her, however, despite her adverse reaction to removing a finger. Her claim this week that she, not Wilford, built the train, explains her willingness to do whatever it takes to keeping the thing going.



I believe her. She's selfless. So, to me it's plausible that she did build it and Wilford was just a face for the business. Melanie was honest when she said that she wasn't willing to watch the boozing and whoring like there's no tomorrow. 



REBerg said:


> Yes, I would be astonished if they execute Melanie. They need her more than the other two engineers.



Maybe it's end of times. It not like they can continue the series. So it's all doom and gloom in the finale.



REBerg said:


> Are they planning another season?



I don't know. Honestly. The series hasn't been as popular as you could have assumed, based on the movie popularity. I have watched it at least three times. Thing is there's three books. Graphic novels. And in the next one there's another train. And in the last one there is a base.


----------



## ctg (Jul 7, 2020)




----------



## Trollheart (Jul 7, 2020)

I've never heard of this. From what I read, that seems to have been just as well. Sounds just completely ridiculous. Like_ The Day After Tomorrow _ridiculous.


----------



## ctg (Jul 13, 2020)

Spoiler: S01E09 - The train demanded blood



Poor Layton. So over his head, not knowing what to do, how to go forward, when all they're stagnated in the positions. It is like a trench warfare.

Funny thing is how some people have a clear understanding, while others are completely clueless. On top of them is the Commander. The mighty face of Jackboots, ready to solve the problem by gassing the train. 

What could go wrong? 

I thought that they would understand that there is no overcrowding problem. Only a people problem. Frankly, the old school pyramid scheme doesn't work on train even if it's the last train rolling on the tracks.

It's funny that on top of that Commander is making Rosy the Queen, kind of harping back to the one detail in the movie that is so classic. Except the one in the movie was so ruthless. Almost as if there was no end to the power she was wielding, because it was all her house, and Mr Wilford's. 

Layton feels like he should be the king, but he isn't. All of it is way too much for his detective brain. I guess it comes with his messiah complex. Not really wanting the thing hard enough to be able to do what's needed to be done. So, his save was Melanie and the power struggle at the top. Downfall, to find the people he needed to sacrifice.






The single most intriguing detail in the whole train and it's time-travel. Theory, without completely having a proof is that by taking Kronos you can access previous lives. It would mean that reincarnation is real and the soul retains the memories. 

Hypersleep effed up Strong Boy and he somehow accessed the previous reincarnation... or at least one of them.


----------



## ctg (Jul 13, 2020)

Holy smoke. I know I've been overly critical on this series and I haven't accepted turn of the events, but this series has continuation. Something that I speculated, just didn't knew it would actually come into fruition. 

It is a wonderful series even if it's a slump in the middle and I'm glad it was a weekly series rather than one of crawl. This series needed the talk, although it never materialised. I am looking forward to the second season.



Spoiler: S01E10 - 994 Cars Long



How is she alive?


----------



## REBerg (Jul 14, 2020)

Going into this double-episode finale, I was ambivalent about a second season. Coming out of the last scene, I'm looking forward to the continuation. Sure took its time getting interesting.


Spoiler



Great solution to the problematic first class passengers and jackboots: Cut 'em loose to chill out. Did they freeze, or did Mr. Wilford and the supply train pick them up?


ctg said:


> How is she alive?


Must be one helluva heater and power supply in that suit. Looks like Melanie and her daughter will get a reunion, although the kid might be as angry as Melanie is grieved about the separation.


----------



## ctg (Jul 14, 2020)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Cut 'em loose to chill out. Did they freeze, or did Mr. Wilford and the supply train pick them up?



They had like ten minutes to do the op before everyone freezes and the power was already out. So unless they did a magic trick, I don't think they survived. Not very likely. But I do have to admit that I thought about the same thing and was certain it was them behind the rear hatch. 

Also when the W turned to M I thought Melanie, not Mr Wilford. So, who built the trains and where does the supply train gets its supplies?



REBerg said:


> Must be one helluva heater and power supply in that suit. Looks like Melanie and her daughter will get a reunion, although the kid might be as angry as Melanie is grieved about the separation.



When I wrote the question, I was thinking the daughter, not Melanie. How is it possible that she survived and who else is in that train? Is this series a new BSG?


----------



## ctg (Jul 14, 2020)




----------



## REBerg (Jul 14, 2020)

They did a nice job of raising questions, the biggest of which is: What do they mean by "coming soon"? 



ctg said:


> Is this series a new BSG?


Blasphemy, sir!


----------



## ctg (Jul 14, 2020)

REBerg said:


> What do they mean by "coming soon"?



Most of it was already filmed. This was one of the projects that was in the pipeline for the CGI during the lockdown.


----------



## svalbard (Jul 15, 2020)

Finally caught up with the series and finished it. I must admit stopped watching around episode 5 and  thinking this was a dud. Went back to it and the last 2 episodes saved the whole series. Bring on S2.


----------



## ctg (Oct 9, 2020)

> In the finale of _Snowpiercer_’s first season, the passengers of the titular car were all shocked to discover that not only were they _not _the world’s last survivors of the world’s plunge into a permanent deadly winter, they also weren’t the only people speeding across the globe in a humongous train.
> 
> And, just as _Snowpiercer_’s passengers were coming to learn the truth about the Wilford corporation, the show took a left turn to reveal that _the _Mr. Wilford isn’t as MIA as Melanie led everyone to believe. During a panel discussion about _Snowpiercer_’s upcoming second season, actor Sean Bean, who plays Wilford, and the rest of the show’s cast sat down to tease out details of what’s to come, and Bean promised that Wilford’s second train and its passengers are going to drastically change the balance of power on both locomotives.
> 
> “He’s charming,” Bean said of his character. “He’s fun to be with. But the lengths he will go to in order to get what he wants are quite incredible.”











						Snowpiercer Teases Season 2 With a New Teaser and NYCC Panel
					

Snowpiercer's second season features a second train and more family drama, as a new teaser out of NYCC reveals.




					io9.gizmodo.com


----------



## REBerg (Oct 9, 2020)

Jan. 25? How optimistic.


----------



## ctg (Oct 9, 2020)

REBerg said:


> Jan. 25? How optimistic.



They had a long pause and I think they needed it, even if they'd started filming it already when we stopped.


----------



## ctg (Jan 12, 2021)

Sean Bean joins cast as the elusive Mr. Wilford in Snowpiercer S2 trailer
					

"The apocalypse isn't so bad, really."




					arstechnica.com


----------



## ctg (Jan 25, 2021)

> As viewers wait patiently to tune in to the second season of the dystopian drama, TNT have announced that the show will also run for a third season. The news doesn’t come as much of a surprise considering the fact Snowpiercer landed the largest premiere of a TNT show since The Alienist in 2018.











						Snowpiercer renewed for third season ahead of Season 2 premiere
					

Amazing news.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## REBerg (Jan 26, 2021)

Season 2, exactly when promised!
Great start -- with the story picking up right where it ended in the first season finale. Looks like this round is going to be a lot more action-packed than the first one.
The supertrain was a little slow getting up to speed.


----------



## ctg (Jan 26, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E01 - The Time of Two Engines 



It is kind of funny that they now say in the narrative that the other train is 40 cars long and the Snowpiercer 994 cars. Yet the smaller engine managed to stop the bigger one.

I get that Wilford might be a clever engineer, but it's all that mass that needs to be slowed down and made to stop. The interesting fact is that since the engine stopped, so did the perpetual engine. All while everything was freezing. But that's the thing, the wind chill will make everything colder. 

Also when you think about it, since everything is freezing, so is the water that the train wheels had been melting when they were turning. If it's super cold outside, in those twelve minutes, the ice could have made the wheels stuck. That didn't turned out to be true. And another thing is that if Layton would have stuck to his guns, the both trains would have been in trouble and therefore an interesting situation would have certainly developed. 






Even though Layton didn't declare himself as the leader of the Snowpiercer, he somehow ended in that role and he declared the tail as a now border between the trains. What happened to all that attitude to give freedom to all passengers?

I didn't like that Layton chairmanned the Council meeting in the Nightcar. In the previous season he was a detective, a fugitive and a revolutionary. But at the end he gave it all the power back to people instead of declaring himself as their dictator. 

The fact is that one of Layton's boys voiced it out loud, by claiming: "All this personal sh1t, it ain't making your democracy any easier to believe in!" And he is so right, because so much has changed, and yet, remained the same with Layton taking over Melanies role in the train. 

Therefore Alex was right. Layton is in charge, want it or not. 

Ruth went on and said, "You are working for all passengers," almost as if she wanted to move Layton to King's position. Is she a kingmaker?






I was expecting Sean Penn in his Mr Wilford role to repeat Eddard Stark thing and chop Melanies head off for leaving them behind. But no, instead he gave her look and talk. While they (the Snowpiercer) was in the move, Big Alice was sitting in the shelter, getting outfitted. 

That is the thing that many of us talked about in the last season. Why do the trainaction, when the old and tested method is to sit in a shelter? All in all it's like that the Chicago Terminal is still there and most probably stocked full of spares and other things that they could get on board. 

Then again maybe that is last winters snow and we cannot get any of it back. Especially as Alex remarked that "they were out of morphine" and "the Hospitality is in their uniforms." For a daughter and as a woman she is really scorned. 

"Take Melanie to brig," she said. Not "Take Mum to brig," almost as if mum had stopped being a thing. Maybe Mr Wilford managed to turn her love to hatred as it seems to be the case with all people in Big Alice. 

Essentially the whole situation makes Mr Wilford a robber baron.

Thing is he think himself as a god who created everything in the world. Yet, personally he didn't nothing more singed the checks and enjoyed the life in luxury, while it was the engineers and the scientists who the majority of everything.






I'm confused. In one hand Alex is playing on Mr Wilford side, on the other she is still feeling for her mum and she knew that Melanie's story was true. There was men who came to get the family but the grandparents refused to leave. 

I get that everyone knows Melanie is manipulative and it comes naturally. Yet, despite being a prisoner she has awful big amount of friends in the Big Alice. People who worship her, but they fear Mr Wilford.

Whose side Alexander is at the end? Mum's or Wilford's or her own?


----------



## REBerg (Jan 26, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> the other train is 40 cars long and the Snowpiercer 994 cars. Yet the smaller engine managed to stop the bigger one.


They don't call the supply train "Big Alice" for nothing.  But seriously, the best BA should be able to do is slow Snowpiercer. Putting on the brakes or pulling in the opposite direction wouldn't last long, considering the relative mass you noted. BA would soon be more of a hefty caboose than an "anchor."


ctg said:


> Therefore Alex was right. Layton is in charge, want it or not.


It didn't take him long to declare martial law.


ctg said:


> Ruth went on and said, "You are working for all passengers," almost as if she wanted to move Layton to King's position. Is she a kingmaker?


Ruth looks like she's doing a political balancing act, praising Wilford while accommodating Layton's budding family.


ctg said:


> I was expecting Sean Penn in his Mr Wilford role to repeat Eddard Stark thing


That's Bean, not Penn. Think of him as a set of names that should rhyme. 


ctg said:


> Essentially the whole situation makes Mr Wilford a robber baron.
> 
> Thing is he think himself as a god who created everything in the world. Yet, personally he didn't nothing more singed the checks and enjoyed the life in luxury, while it was the engineers and the scientists who the majority of everything.


Without a doubt. That could be the most realistic aspect of the whole series.


----------



## ctg (Jan 26, 2021)

Need spoiler tags man.


----------



## REBerg (Jan 26, 2021)

ctg said:


> Need spoiler tags man.


Oops! Situation corrected.


----------



## REBerg (Jan 26, 2021)

Spoiler



I loved the Big Alice doctors. They gave me the only laugh I can remember since the series began.


----------



## ctg (Jan 26, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Putting on the brakes or pulling in the opposite direction wouldn't last long, considering the relative mass you noted. BA would soon be more of a hefty caboose than an "anchor."



Exactly and there will be broken or at least worn out parts for doing the battle. Where are they going to get the spares? I know that shows my engineer side pretty strongly. It's just I cannot turn it off, just like I cannot turn off for being a writer.



REBerg said:


> I loved the Big Alice doctors. They gave me the only laugh I can remember since the series began.



I think they were needed. A pair of essentric intellects doing mad science and saving everyone.


REBerg said:


> Ruth looks like she's doing a political balancing act, praising Wilford while accommodating Layton's budding family.



Yeah, but she's her own woman. She worships Mr Wilford above everything else, but at the same time she cannot stop being a hen mother. And while she likes taking orders, she's perfectly okay doing them all on her own. It also makes me scared of what happens when the baby comes out? 



REBerg said:


> That's Bean, not Penn. Think of him as a set of names that should rhyme.



Goddammit. Me and my dyslexia. Sometimes I feel it is getting better and then things happens and it's all back to same old thing.


----------



## Rodders (Feb 1, 2021)

So I finally got around to watching this over the weekend and it was... okay, but not great.

I thought it was different enough from the movie to be interesting. Jennifer Connolly and Alison Wright were both excellent as hospitality, as was Mickey Sumner. The train and environment looked great, although somewhat let down by the effects on occasion. I also enjoyed that they introduced Layton as a homicide detective and thought the murder was a good way to get us hooked in. 

A couple of things just didn't add up for me, though. 

Maybe I missed something, but how did Layton discover that Wilford wasn't on the train? It seemed to be a bit of a leap. 

Did I hear correctly that there were only 3000 survivors on the train? At 1001 carriages long, that's only 3 per car. (It also seems strange that there are only two engines on a track that circumnavigates the globe. 

I didn't get the need for the trolley system on the bottom of the train as that is a lot of potential storage space. Still, maybe there wasn't enough time to fully stock the train, or perhaps it was a carry over from when the train was a luxury. 

Enjoyable and worth watching, I'll wait until I can watch the second series in it's entirety.


----------



## ctg (Feb 1, 2021)

Rodders said:


> Did I hear correctly that there were only 3000 survivors on the train?



No. We don't know the number.


----------



## Rodders (Feb 1, 2021)

There is a quote from Melanie when she asks what Layton sees in Snowpiercer. He answers "I see a fortress to class". She replies "I see 3000 souls surviving".

That aside, something that really made me laugh was the "W" sign they'd mime on their chest. I suppose Wakanda got the decent one.


----------



## AE35Unit (Feb 1, 2021)

Started watching this the other day. Waiting for the next episode


----------



## ctg (Feb 1, 2021)

Rodders said:


> There is a quote from Melanie when she asks what Layton sees in Snowpiercer. He answers "I see a fortress to class". She replies "I see 3000 souls surviving".



I really doubt it's three thousand, maybe five. But you have to bear in mind that a lot of that space is occupied by the equipment or something else. And at the bottom of the whole car is a tunnel. So, all that space we are thinking, it's really disappears somewhere.

The number is definitely under ten thousand, that is for sure. What it really is we don't know for certain and Melanie has always been speculative. It is kind of hard to get a straight answer out of her. It's just when I'm thinking the number we also have to bear in mind that the Tailies rushed the train and there's unknown number of them, but all the other people, who makes third and second class. The first class is definitely under a hundred, maybe even under fifty.

Layton however sees the train as a micro-society with its problems. It's more like a pyramid with the bottom being Tailies and top the Engineers in the Eternal Engine. And then there's Mr Wilford, who is batting in his very own class. Don't know what it is, yet.


----------



## Rodders (Feb 1, 2021)

The Ruling Elite?


----------



## ctg (Feb 1, 2021)

Rodders said:


> The Ruling Elite?



What would that be in this context?


----------



## Rodders (Feb 2, 2021)

I'd imagine that Wilford see's himself as the elite, (and i think Ruth would see it too). Nothing to base that on, but as Melanie designed the train and Wilford took all the credit, i would imagine that he'd have a fair ego on him.


----------



## ctg (Feb 2, 2021)

Spoiler






Rodders said:


> I'd imagine that Wilford see's himself as the elite, (and i think Ruth would see it too). Nothing to base that on, but as Melanie designed the train and Wilford took all the credit, i would imagine that he'd have a fair ego on him.






That should be under spoiler tags because it's revealing finer details.



Spoiler



I'd say that neither of them are in power. Mr Wilford think he is, but in reality he is as much a prisoner as the rest of them. And while he might be giving orders, it's just the people who execute them don't always follow them down to the letter.


----------



## ctg (Feb 2, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E02 - Smoulder to Life 



It is delightful to see that the audience is returning and there are more people enjoying this series than in the last time. But we do admit that in the first series everything slumped in the the middle and towards the end things got really excited through action and drama, and it kind of feels that we are still on that same track (no pun intended.)






I am as confused as Melanie's daughter. The snow sample turned out to be water. What did you expect, gold? Another thing is that they say it's too cold to snow. I don't get it. How can it be too cold to snow? The atmosphere is still there and it is still carrying water moisture up to the clouds, which then returns back as snow. 

If the atmosphere would be made from different composite, like for example what we've seen in Europa or Pluto it would still snow, but the substance would be made from different material. Another thing is that the planet still has an equator and it will receive most of the sunshine. 

I get that a lot of the heat is radiated back through the white blanket, but in the equator thing should be warmer than in other regions. Yet nobody talks about it.   

Melanie thought that the snow was made from the chemicals they put in the clouds, and it is somehow decomposing.






I am kind of bothered that Layton's word goes awful long way and it gets things done, even though allegdely he gave it all back to the people. He literally walked into the Breakman's car and decided that it's time to make Tilly a train detective. 

That is awful lot of power in the hands of one man. But I loved that by his words they butchered a chicken and made hotwings to lose Kevin's tongue on the secrets of Big Alice. I have never seen anyone so keen on putting their choppers on a piece of a chicken.

What is strange is that he doesn't look malnourished, nor had he lost his faculties because of the hungry. Yet, the simple chicken seemed working real well. How can it be that simple luxuries makes life better? Also, I'd like to point out that in the title shot, the girl is skinning a fat rabbit. 

If they're so hungry how can they feed rabbits and even their own people to a state where they show a little tummy? 

Mr Wilford rightfully called Layton a king. Yet, you look at him and he's one as well even though I'd like to call him a robber baron.






Well he certainly does work like one, with one second being extraordinary accommodating, while in the reality he is ready to show some explosive rage. If Kevin had not done it, he certainly would have made sure that it was going to happen. So can you imagine what happened when Melanie took off? How many people died in his hands?

Back in the day when he had his fortune to finance the trains negotiations were everyday activity. So it was no surprise that he jumped on first one to talk about the Climate Change. Yet, you have to bear in mind that all that has happened since they connected the trains together has been showing signs of criminality and not diplomacy, even if Melanie was exchanged. 

Mr Wilford knows very well on how to play on both sides, while in the background it's the darker side that seems to be dominating every action. Revenge is never a good thing and if you're doing it, you better dig two graves. 

Maybe he isn't after the revenge, but in the heart he's another psycho and all that is happening is just play to make him the King of the Hill. The dinner in the first class was certainly an intelligence gathering operation. In his shoes I'd have done, while thinking the whole Snowpiercer as an enemy or a price to grab. 

All those years he was chasing the Eternal Engine he must have planned all sorts of things. So, in the context, all while he was walking through the train he was counting the stock. Melanie's Climate Change announcement seemed to put another gog in the wheels of the invasion project. 

I'm pretty sure he wants the Snowpiercer for himself and whoever is still on board of the Big Alice. Everyone else, even his loyalists can go to hell.


----------



## REBerg (Feb 3, 2021)

Spoiler



The most disturbing scene this round for me was Kevin's demise. Forcing him to slash his own wrists and bleed out while sharing a bath with his psychotic boss made me wonder just what kind of bizarre relationship they had.
Giving away the fact that Wilford and his minions are hungry was Kevin's big betrayal? Wilford revealed that situation when his presented his grocery demands at the first border meeting.


ctg said:


> How can it be too cold to snow? The atmosphere is still there and it is still carrying water moisture up to the clouds, which then returns back as snow.


At the temperatures they've been citing, all or most of the atmospheric moisture must be locked up as ice and snow. Precipitation would be rare enough for them to hope it might mean a warmup, which seemed to be confirmed by the weather balloon temperature readings.


ctg said:


> Mr Wilford rightfully called Layton a king. Yet, you look at him and he's one as well even though I'd like to call him a robber baron.


Wilford is just taunting Layton by continuing to call him a title he denied. Standard bullying behavior.


ctg said:


> Maybe he isn't after the revenge, but in the heart he's another psycho and all that is happening is just play to make him the King of the Hill.





ctg said:


> I'm pretty sure he wants the Snowpiercer for himself and whoever is still on board of the Big Alice. Everyone else, even his loyalists can go to hell.


The look on Wilford's face reflected his feelings about a warming earth and the possibility of re-civilization. Beyond regaining control, he doesn't want his rolling kingdom to end. Neither do Ruth, LJ or the rest of his blind worshippers.


----------



## ctg (Feb 4, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Giving away the fact that Wilford and his minions are hungry was Kevin's big betrayal? Wilford revealed that situation when his presented his grocery demands at the first border meeting.



No. I wouldn't say that. Thing is everyone thought and everyone saw individuals that weren't all skin and bones. Actually they were well fed and had decent clothing. So, I thought when they showed the list that they were checking what stock they could get access to and what had gone short.



REBerg said:


> The most disturbing scene this round for me was Kevin's demise. Forcing him to slash his own wrists and bleed out while sharing a bath with his psychotic boss made me wonder just what kind of bizarre relationship they had.



Well, yeah, of course. Making him to come back, tell his tale, make him bath and then give him a choice he couldn't refuse. All cold blooded and somewhat psychotic. But we didn't see Mr Wilford face showing pleasure. We can only assume that it's his preferred method as only rare few can change their method. If not it must be something bloody as Melanie's daughter was doing that thing as well. Could he have developed cannibalistic trades?


----------



## ctg (Feb 9, 2021)

Spoiler: A Great Odyssey 



Man I laughed out loud so much when Mr Wilford did the announcement instead of Layton. I loved that he splashed a bit of whisky on rock and then sparked a spliff as if he is a novahot radio DJ. 

Not everyone liked it and nobody expected it. It was like a surprise and another move to take over the train from Melanie and Layton's posse. Maybe we'll get to see a great train robbery as well soon, whenever Mr Wilford decides to release his freakish bodyguards.

One thing I was right about is that he is a Robber Baron. He doesn't even share the food with his own people, because he's manipulating the whole lot and the food seems to be one of the biggest currencies on board the train.






What a pompous prick. I love that he's acted so well that I believe in him and therefore the hate of what he's doing is so much more real. The real interesting bit is that Big Alice loaded with all sorts of supplies to keep the train running. And just like it is with every quartermaster, the answer is always no. Nothing can be spared for Melanie's mission or for the Snowpiercer even though they are all one big train. 

If I think in his shoes then the original plan of freezing the people would have netted a huge number of spares to Big Alice. Plus all the other goodies. So in that sense I'm putting Mr Wilford on the kill-list as he's the biggest threat to survival at the moment. 






Why is that Layton don't see the Wilford symbol behind three fingers? It's like he doesn't get the treat at all or even know the extend of Wilford syndicate on board of his train. In the essence Mr Wilford has his own army doing the exact infiltration that I'd wished to see from Layton in the first time. 

Top places, special commands, more special rules and in the key places to cause maximum damage. Almost as if the Emperor's Order 66 had been Wilford's inspiration. So what if Wilford would make it and kill enough of Snowpiercer's people to make takeover permanent? 

From apocalyptic point-of-view that is perfect, but from the survival one it's the opposite. They are never going to make it to another century on board of the train. Something has to change or we are watching the last ride of humanity. 

Not that it almost came to be with the ride over the Rockies. Train driving isn't like car driving. It is a different skill, but it's not that much of science as they received in the drama. As a horror writer I certainly felt the tension and I was anxious to shout my lungs out on Mr Wilford to back off. 

If the theory of Wilford being psycho he is certainly getting his kicks off from driving the people to the edge. Layton needs to see that but it's difficult for him because he's on the opposite end of being close to him. Not that he didn't deliver it in the line, when he announced Mr Wilford as a megalomanic. It was almost as if he was reading a synopsis instead of doing the connections from the observations. 

Does Layton believe in it, because to my eyes he doesn't act as if he do?


----------



## REBerg (Feb 10, 2021)

Spoiler



Not totally unexpected, but it was good to see Melanie and Alex reconnect. I guess Mom going on a suicide mission can move even the most bitter of offspring to reconciliation.
The relationship Alex has with Wilford is curious. He seems to dominate her to the point of controlling her every emotion, yet she has the power to dismiss "Dubs" when she wants a few extra moments alone with her mother.
I suspect that the Big Alice doctors' ability to heal Melanie's frostbitten shoulder with their miracle ointment will play a role in restoring Josie's horribly disfigured face.


----------



## ctg (Feb 11, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Not totally unexpected, but it was good to see Melanie and Alex reconnect. I guess Mom going on a suicide mission can move even the most bitter of offspring to reconciliation.
> The relationship Alex has with Wilford is curious. He seems to dominate her to the point of controlling her every emotion, yet she has the power to dismiss "Dubs" when she wants a few extra moments alone with her mother.



You could see already in the last episode that she was warming towards mum, but it's that something that Mr Wilford is holding over her that makes her do things. In this way, we at least know that she has a heart. 

It's just we have seen people on board with getting whacked for having a soft moment. Alex certainly had one when she told mum about the grandparents. Why is that nobody is asking Mr Wilford how they got out from the depot and what it took to make it happen?



REBerg said:


> I suspect that the Big Alice doctors' ability to heal Melanie's frostbitten shoulder with their miracle ointment will play a role in restoring Josie's horribly disfigured face.



Scarred, not disfigured. Will they provide a treatment? Wilford hasn't said yes and if he learns the connection between her and our fearless leader then that is bad. He is most certainly going to hold over Layton in the negotiations. So, is it worth it when the beauty is not on the looks but in the person? Very good looking people can be total [redacted].


----------



## ctg (Feb 16, 2021)

Spoiler: A single trade



Oh my God, Mr Wilford has a secret lover on board the train! Everything is as if it was planned this way. Him chasing his investment around the world and finally ending with it and all the things he collected along the way. 

I get that he had love and it should be fine, but the thing Mr Wilford is not fine. He wants to end his days on board the train. Almost like some chaotic, evil genius. Except I have not seen evidence of him being a genius, just evil. 






I kind of feeling that Layton shouldn't be dining in the first class for the breakfast. I get that he is the king of the Snowpiercer, want it or not. What I don't get is why the first class breakfast in scruffies? 

Don't they have more cloths for him? Is the clothing industry dead in the train or is just that everyone has one pair and that's it?

I assume that the first class has a barber service, but we never see that either, even if Layton could do with a meeting with the razor. At least to give some shape to his bush, because at the moment it looks as if a hobo is leading the train against a tyrant living in riches.

What I like is that he is still acting on behalf of the train, as he thought he should get the miracle ointment to save the frostbite victims, but ultimately it was about saving his lover. But at what cost?






A dinner in the Nightcar? For the miracle Mr Wilford isn't asking much, which is kind of what I fear, because when you give a lot and the return is so tiny, you're likely to come back and ask again. And again and so forth. 

Especially as Audrie was Mr Wilford "exclusive escort" for years.

Layton made the connection between the unique and too low ask. But he didn't know what to do about it, or even that if the 46 figure is real for the Big Alice, then he should have invited all of them to see the faces of his enemies. Didn't happen.

Audrey still played her part like a true professional. Inside me I really hope that Layton makes the connection with Audrey being the true price of all this endeavour. That woman is Mr Wilford's Achilles heel.  

With her he's like a puppy with big eyes and nothing but desire. Maybe the strangest thing is for Audrey seeing his dreams, the secret of Wilford MO, the razor and the bathtub.

Can someone tell me what the feeding was about, please?






Somehow Till has changed and at the same time out of all character she has shown most development. Everyone else has stayed pretty much the same. At the same time we feel through her the most deepest, darkest things.

It is twisting her, the guilt and the duty. At the end I expect her turn out to be a monster, expect that she's fighting for the right side and not for the pleasure.


----------



## REBerg (Feb 18, 2021)

Spoiler



How is it that this episode focused on the freaky-deaky Mr. Wilford and not on Melanie's quest to save Humanity?
Melanie is dumped out of the train to embark on a "suicide mission," then nothing until they get a ping from the weather balloon confirming her survival? Seems as though they missed a major human-triumphing-over-impossible-odds action sequence. If they plan to flash back to that story next week, it won't be nearly as suspenseful.
I think someone should warn Alex that she should be more than pretend enemies with LJ.


----------



## ctg (Feb 18, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Melanie is dumped out of the train to embark on a "suicide mission," then nothing until they get a ping from the weather balloon confirming her survival?



It was the only tensile moment in the episode, so they had to have something or otherwise it would have all about shadows and mysteries. Now we know that she's alive, or at least some captured the message and downloaded it somewhere. Thing is, if there are some other people then this is also adding about to the tension as we simply don't know.



REBerg said:


> I think someone should warn Alex that she should be more than pretend enemies with LJ.



I think she can handle herself. They seemed like old friends, but we never know has LJ calmed down or is she still waiting for that trigger moment to let the psycho out.


----------



## REBerg (Feb 18, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> has LJ calmed down or is she still waiting for that trigger moment to let the psycho out.


I'd place my bet on psycho. Which would be worse: spoiled rich kid psycho or janitor psycho with full-train access?


----------



## ctg (Feb 18, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Which would be worse: spoiled rich kid psycho or janitor psycho with full-train access?



I see your point. LJ, like you say, will most certainly use the opportunity as she already did in the observation car.

PS spoiler tags.


----------



## ctg (Feb 23, 2021)

Spoiler: Keep Hope Alive



There is something to be said about the Big Alice doctors and their bedside manner. Although I cannot blame them, because in the real life, these people are actually real. They are brilliant researchers, but when it comes to the caring side, forget about it because they don't have it. 

They will cure you and make you better, but along the ride they won't apologise or even tell you what is happening or why they're doing certain procedures. You can complain about it, but at the end of the day, it won't work, so why bother? The pain is pain and in their situation, it's not like they can hire a couple of beautiful Filipino nurses to take care of the business. 

It ain't happening. 

The Headwoods are the only, best hope that's available. So, it's up to patients to take care of themselves. With Viv it happened a lot and I too ended not only caring for her, but also a fleet of other patients that their families had left and forgotten in the hospital. It is a true blessing that the patients can, and will know how to get around certain things, like Josie's panic attack.

The doctors, when they're like that, they only care about the numbers, charts and their business. And it's unfortunate, but what a lovely sweet man Icy Bob turned out to be under that monstrous exterior.






I am scared on Audries behalf as last time Mr Wilford were dreaming about murdering her and now the dinner is happening in the Big Alice. It is almost as if the luxury pad at Big Alice has inherited the status of the infamous Chigaco Murder House, meaning you're lucky if you get back out. Lucky or a chosen one, because in my view Mr Wilford is aiming to murder everyone.

Then again we have our own psycho LJ to worry in the Snowpiercer. It was hilarious to see her grinning after she smacked lights out from Mr Pike. It is as if she's waiting anxiously a permission to get on with the grimy business. And that worries me, because between Mr Wilford and her, the passengers are in danger. 

Maybe the strangest thing is that Alex doesn't see either of them as danger. Mr Wilford is like a daddy she never had and LJ the best mate, ever. Does it mean that she's a psycho too?

The most tensile moment in the episode was with Audrey doing her spy task, while Wilford were mixing drinks. I was thinking he's going to spike her or out right murder her if she gets caught.






In is very strange to think Snowpiercer's Earth as the Snowball Earth and see the sun shining almost from cloudless skies. In the last episode we saw aurora's flaring and they don't happen without clear skies and solar wind. So, in the scientific terms there is something troubling in their world, because the weather is not consistent. It is changing and even though they announced that the temperature is -118 C it is coming down from earlier numbers. And that measurement was taken at early morning, when the suns warmth hadn't added up. 

Then there is the wind chill factor. It will make everything to feel colder than what it actually is. Yet, they never talk about it, even though they could have added the the calculations within the weather announcement. 

To my eyes, that ice is melting. Not piling up and getting higher. So, in that sense, how many times they can circumnavigate the globe before it's impossible as the Earth returns back to its normal state in the goldilocks zone? 

You look carefully at that data and the hypotheses from the early Earth states and you can get to the conclusion pretty quickly. The snowball earth happened, because our young planet was still going through the stages while the Sun and all the other planets were clearing up the space. You can assume that everything was covered in a nebula. 

But under the ice, volcanism and tectonics were happening as they are today in Antarctica. In that icy continent case it has been going for millions of years. But for this world, it is a new thing. Yet, you can assume that fire is spewing out from tops, even if they're sitting in the ice field. And that activity would soot a lot of ice cover. 

If you follow that analogue, you'll find that at the end of the day some places would be always melting and some would always remain free from ice. In the long term the volcanism would return the globe back to its normal state. 

When Melanie didn't come back, and I suspect that she cannot contact the balloon from other-side of the world without using a satellite uplink., they did the right thing and lied for the hope. Even if she's dead, the hope will keep them alive and things in order.






Long live the king, the king is dead. Layton you surprise me. Totally. But then again, maybe it shouldn't be a such surprise because he came from the streets, lived time in the Tail before he became the king. In that sense it absolutely makes sense that he would use a page from the book and use it to wipe out the threats.

Terance was a good kingpin, but Mr Pike is better and he's in Layton's pocket. In those terms a right move, yes?

Maybe more righteous thing was taking out the breachmen, but the question is did Layton do it or were they the mark? Is the plan still to murder everyone in the Snowpiercer?


----------



## REBerg (Feb 24, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> There is something to be said about the Big Alice doctors and their bedside manner.


Didn't Icy Bob caution Josie that the doctors were dangerous to cross, or was he talking about someone else?
Josie's ability to undergo the tissue removal procedure without anesthesia was remarkable. If the doctors had not been chattering so much, they would have noticed that she was conscious. Of course, she would then have not been able to gather so much intel about Wilford's plans.


ctg said:


> Maybe the strangest thing is that Alex doesn't see either of them as danger. Mr. Wilford is like a daddy she never had and LJ the best mate, ever. Does it mean that she's a psycho too?


Alex has a few quirks, most likely stemming from abandonment issues, but I don't think she's as warped as LJ.


ctg said:


> The most tensile moment in the episode was with Audrey doing her spy task, while Wilford were mixing drinks. I was thinking he's going to spike her or out right murder her if she gets caught.


It looked like Dubs was wise to Audrey's aborted attempt to get into the junction box and switch the wires. Is he sufficiently enamored of her to just keep a closer eye on her but keep her alive, or will he decide that killing her would be the safest route to take? She should have decided to cross back into Snowpiercer territory, but that might have caused Wilford to end her right there.


ctg said:


> When Melanie didn't come back, and I suspect that she cannot contact the balloon from other-side of the world without using a satellite uplink., they did the right thing and lied for the hope. Even if she's dead, the hope will keep them alive and things in order.


At least they put a little drama back into her situation. We'll probably get a backstory next, ending with what went wrong at her last scheduled message time and recovery.


ctg said:


> Long live the king, the king is dead. Layton you surprise me. Totally. But then again, maybe it shouldn't be a such surprise because he came from the streets, lived time in the Tail before he became the king. In that sense it absolutely makes sense that he would use a page from the book and use it to wipe out the threats.


No surprise that he considers himself above getting his political hands dirty. Pike's rationalization about going back to his old bad murderous self by giving his target a sporting chance was a little strange


ctg said:


> Is the plan still to murder everyone in the Snowpiercer?


Not unless he is completely insane. What fun is being king if you have no subjects? Plus, he can't run the train on his own.
Apparently the breachmen were expendable, from somebody's perspective.
Who is that shrouded killer doing such a professional job?


----------



## ctg (Feb 24, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Didn't Icy Bob caution Josie that the doctors were dangerous to cross, or was he talking about someone else?



He did but I assumed it was about their business, and not about Wilford's business. I understood it as a warning against not taking the drugs and somehow cocking up the business.



REBerg said:


> Josie's ability to undergo the tissue removal procedure without anesthesia was remarkable. If the doctors had not been chattering so much, they would have noticed that she was conscious. Of course, she would then have not been able to gather so much intel about Wilford's plans.



Women, they do that and when it does boil over, you'll get told off and as well as everyone else in the vicinity and they don't spare a thought is it a wise or not. It's just steam venting off in great amounts and at the end, you still have to deal with the pain business. 

We men tend to grunt or then stay completely silently until it's not healthy any more, like it has happened with my dad many times. One time with an acetone torch and when he came in to tell about it, we thought initially it was much less than what it really was.





REBerg said:


> It looked like Dubs was wise to Audrey's aborted attempt to get into the junction box and switch the wires. Is he sufficiently enamored of her to just keep a closer eye on her but keep her alive, or will he decide that killing her would be the safest route to take? She should have decided to cross back into Snowpiercer territory, but that might have caused Wilford to end her right there.



I thought the failed mission was the only reason as well. It cannot be Wilford's company, that's for sure, even if they were once lovers. Then again, maybe it is about the love after all. Without him she would not have had much. With him she has the whole world. So in her shoes she could think about twice on saying not to the queen position. 

What does she really have in the Snowpiercer? The club? Is it enough of reason to stay on that side?

We assume that it's the mission, but at the end of the day, if this was higher writing then defection would totally be in the cards and Wilford would be once step closer on the path to become the King of whole train.



REBerg said:


> Pike's rationalization about going back to his old bad murderous self by giving his target a sporting chance was a little strange



Weren't he one of the guys who came out from the ice? Didn't Layton recover him from a box?



REBerg said:


> Who is that shrouded killer doing such a professional job?



I thought it was Layton, but it cannot be, can it?


----------



## ctg (Mar 2, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E06 - Many Miles from Snowpiercer



Finally! 

I was so afraid that we were going to have to wait till they were back in Americas to find out what happened to Melanie. And, I'd like to apologise in advance, there might be some radio science involved. I cannot help it. After all I'm an engineer. 

Still it's amazing to see Melanie drifting through the piles, trusting that her machine were going to hold, even though the temperatures are below the normal operating range for the snow cats and other mobiles. 

She was so lucky that the machine broke down in a sight distance from the Weather Station, when it could have been miles and miles more. What I don't get is how did that snow storm developed so quickly? 

I thought that it was established that it wasn't happening. That there could not be a blizzard. Just sunny or cloud skies and real cold. Even for Finns. 

In her shoes I'd have gone to collect the other stuff from snow before exploring the station. I know that it was her mission, but her mission is also to survive and she cannot do it without the kit. The thing is so important because if you don't do it sooner, you're going to have to fight the ice later. 

To be frank, it was amazing to see that she used solar panels to power the station. Typically they don't work in the winter conditions very well, as they get covered with the powder and then caked in ice when temperatures fluctuate.

The ideal is to use ground heat to heat up whole place, and then use something else to power the station.






Oh Melanie, you're so effed. Ice drifts has known to happen and it feel for you girl. All that gear and the snowcat. You are so screwed. I know personally it's a pain-in-the-backside job to go out to get the stuff, when you're dead tired, cold and wanting to just sit in warmth. 

Winter is harsh and unforgiving. Do things wrong way and you'll end up paying for it. More so then in warm countries. And nobody will hear you screaming in middle of the Big White.

I love that Mr Wilford came to sully her mood in the aftermath. But she didn't give up. Not even when the arm was on offer. The problem with the food is that in cold, you'll burn more calories. When they're gone the body starts to eat the fat and then muscles. Eventually the last thing to go is the brain.

Funny thing is that Melanie remembered to the conversation about the numbers, as she was complaining about Mr Wilford manufacturing the NightCar. Thing is, you just cannot close people in the steel tube and remove all the culture.

Anarchy is a state where the norms are broken. Anarchy in the Snowpiercer is a bad thing. 

Three thousand souls however is enough to restart the population. It was truly intriguing to see how Mr Wilford handled that problem. Back then he was already ******* and most probably very well aware of his darker side.

So in his shoes, why not to be the King and choose exactly who you want in the train. The Tailies is the unknown chaos particle in the equation. Without them, Mr Wilford could probably have been able to capture the whole train.

All in all, it all fits in my mind. 






Holy Smoke! I was right. The volcanism never stopped. Why didn't she see a smoke plume coming from some crack? Not that I'm complaining as not only she found warmth, but she found stuff for the Rat BBQ. 

Yum, yum. The best kind of apocalyptic survival food. And the best thing, it's fresh!

Win-Win. 

In this scifi situation we are in I'd imagine that Melanie is picturing a way to harness that thermal energy. After all in that one spot, she has endless amount of it. 






There ain't no way to get that fixed. You need a crew to get it erected and those cables tightened. Three people minimum. Not one. And certainly not one that has been essentially starving, because erecting the tower in that cold you're going to burn calories.

So science, the maths and the simple facts makes it so tedious. But what I don't get is how she was able to use the tower to listen the probes on other side of the world? Not that they would stay loft forever as they are depicted in the small screen. They just wouldn't as normally they would pop in 48 hours and then the instrument set would parachute down for recovery. 

I know that there are balloons that can stay aloft for longer period, but thing is, you cannot encapsulate them in a small package to launched on sky. Then there is the globe. The simple fact is that there is this thing called radio horizon. Beyond it things are going to get difficult. Hence they claim that the dark side of the Moon is the best place for the radio telescope, because it is in the radio darkness.

Ain't no way that the norm terrestrial traffic gets there. Not easily as it would pass straight through without a satellite. And that is the reason why Jade Rabbit is still working over there. The Chinese simply made a machine that can stand the two weeks of darkness to continue the mission.

Her mission is over. And in her shoes I'd have started planning for that return trip as without the Snowcat, it's going to be a long, long trip.

The science is in the data she'd already captured. It is hidden there.

Melanie might not see it. She thought that saving rest of the data is her mission. That she could somehow perform a miracle, when the Mother Nature was saying: "No! Ef it Melanie! You got what you came for. Now go!"

Maybe I'm harsh, but she already got it, when the data returned from the probes after that miraculous fix. The climate model and all.

If she had been on pickup sooner, she could probably have been able to jump. Now it's a trip back to the darkness and rat BBQ.



Superb episode! I am sorry about my niggling, but it's how I feel about things that I would have done personally in this situation. There is a way to incorporate all three novels in this series!


----------



## REBerg (Mar 4, 2021)

Spoiler



Rats! Smarter than the average human when it comes to survival! Good thing Melanie is well above average
As an engineer, she had no problem devising a trap to catch her unsuspected roommate. She was also smart enough to realize Ratso was not alone.
I thought her nutrition-starved, hallucinating brain had driven her to immediately put the rat in a pot of water and boil it -- fur, guts and all -- for lunch. Releasing it and tracking its wet footprints back to rat central and a steady menu of rat-on-a-stick was sheer genius.
Funny that the builders of the weather station didn't take advantage of the natural heat source. It must have been there. A rat construction crew wouldn't have missed it.


----------



## ctg (Mar 4, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Funny that the builders of the weather station didn't take advantage of the natural heat source. It must have been there. A rat construction crew wouldn't have missed it.



Melanie said something along the line that it had developed during the climate change. I'm not sure of the process, but it sounds plausible, and while the station was operational, they might have not noticed because it wasn't a spewing geyser. Nevertheless it is an energy and a heat source that she should start exploiting now that she's on her own. If she was able to figure out a perpetual engine, thermal energy conversion shouldn't be too difficult.



REBerg said:


> Rats! Smarter than the average human when it comes to survival! Good thing Melanie is well above average
> As an engineer, she had no problem devising a trap to catch her unsuspected roommate. She was also smart enough to realize Ratso was not alone.
> I thought her nutrition-starved, hallucinating brain had driven her to immediately put the rat in a pot of water and boil it -- fur, guts and all -- for lunch. Releasing it and tracking its wet footprints back to rat central and a steady menu of rat-on-a-stick was sheer genius.



Funny how we both are excited about the little furry creatures.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 4, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Melanie said something along the line that it had developed during the climate change. I'm not sure of the process, but it sounds plausible, and while the station was operational, they might have not noticed because it wasn't a spewing geyser. Nevertheless it is an energy and a heat source that she should start exploiting now that she's on her own. If she was able to figure out a perpetual engine, thermal energy conversion shouldn't be too difficult.


I wondered if Melanie missing the train was just another hallucination. She was in the station when she felt Snowpiercer's approach, yet she was able to get to the tracks while the train was still passing. Getting to the station seemed like a much longer journey. Uphill vs. downhill?
It doesn't seem like keeping Melanie marooned at the station would be a great plot development. I don't want to see her run out of fresh rats and be forced to start munching on the dead scientists.


----------



## ctg (Mar 4, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I wondered if Melanie missing the train was just another hallucination. She was in the station when she felt Snowpiercer's approach, yet she was able to get to the tracks while the train was still passing. Getting to the station seemed like a much longer journey. Uphill vs. downhill?



That's the thing. It took her two days on Snowcat to find the station, and yet, she was able to get back and do all the packing in super short time. Like I said, when the mast went down I would have moved on to get back to the train stage, but she didn't. 



REBerg said:


> It doesn't seem like keeping Melanie marooned at the station would be a great plot development. I don't want to see her run out of fresh rats and be forced to start munching on the dead scientists.



If there are rats, there are other animals and insects, plus she has the heat to start planting the seeds. Finding a chicken or a pair of rabbits would be a miracle.


----------



## ctg (Mar 9, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E07 - Our Answer to Everything



Revolution. Wilford Revolution. The End?

To be honest this episode is heavy with betrayal and it is extremely violent. I cannot imagine that it is easy watching for anyone. On the character sides, Ruth is the hidden star. We know how wicked and ruthless she was in the first season. Almost matching one from the movies, but never really going all the way with the crazy old bat angle. 

There is so much madness in the train that it's quite overwhelming when it's exposed in this episode. The people really has cooking inside the tincan and I can only imagine it's because of all those massed up feelings of loss and everything else. 

After all they have gone through the apocalypse, survived it to be entrapped forever inside the ever moving train that cannot stop. Not for a long or they're all in trouble, but the chaos reminds me about the end scenes in the movie so much. 

People went absolutely nuts, but some of it was because they'd all been sniffing the timetravelling drug to escape the apathy. If you look closely the whole train is full of it. It is almost as if they all need time off from the train because the air in it is choking them.

Then again all things has been driving towards this point and I cannot think any other way this could gone. The things that started all the way back in the first season is just reaching the boiling point and I think there's going to be a serious carnage towards the end of this season. 

There is no other way as we saw that the middle of the train was in fire when they'd reached the pickup and Mr Wilford was nowhere to be seen. Back then I imagined that he much be in middle of that action and at the end there is going to be only one king in the train, Layton or him. 

Maybe the biggest twists are Audrie turning to be Wilford loyalist, almost as if she'd always wanted it. And she saved Kevin by turning him into a dog. Then the next biggest one was Pike almost losing an arm, and the murderer turning out be an upper class bimbo, before the pastor was revealed to be the spy. 

Tinker. Tailor. Pastor. Spy. 

What can I say?


----------



## REBerg (Mar 9, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Ruth is the hidden star. We know how wicked and ruthless she was in the first season.


Her ability to stop those willing to take Layton's arm in place of Pike's was impressive. Maybe Ruth should be in charge, with Layton serving as a tailie leadership figurehead.


ctg said:


> Maybe the biggest twists are Audrie turning to be Wilford loyalist, almost as if she'd always wanted it.


I don't think she's turned. She just didn't want another bloodletting trip to the bathtub under Wilford's twisted sense of revenge.
I don't understand how turning Kevin back into a Wilford worshipper earned Audrey redemption. She had nothing to lose.
I was surprised to learn that Kevin hadn't been sliced and diced into a variety of entrees for Wilford's dinner table.


ctg said:


> Tinker. Tailor. Pastor. Spy.


----------



## ctg (Mar 10, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Her ability to stop those willing to take Layton's arm in place of Pike's was impressive. Maybe Ruth should be in charge, with Layton serving as a tailie leadership figurehead.



Indeed, it's like she's this unspoken hero, who nobody thought would have balls to silence a mop and order them to stop. That is impressive. The guys were ready to just give there up and then. "Oh please Ruth, not the bollocking. Anything but that... pleeeeese."

But she has that aura which tells you to obey. In some other setting she could be a queen or some other matriarchal figure. So I guess we could call her as The Queen of Hospitality - Do not cross her words or it won't be good!

Layton probably don't get it or don't see it, even though she's been there, always. If he did, he could use it to his advantage. "Oh no bois, listen to me, or listen to Ruth, which is it?" 

Thing is, things are escalating and escaping from his grasp and there seems to be at least 40+ percent of the people who wants a switch in the leadership. 



REBerg said:


> I don't understand how turning Kevin back into a Wilford worshipper earned Audrey redemption. She had nothing to lose.



Poor judgement, perhaps. He thinks he's a master on reading people, but it's not working. Although the way Audrie acted, she made me to believe that she had turned. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me because in the sense of micro-cosmos she's at the moment as close to being goddess as she can. Who would say no to that?


----------



## ctg (Mar 16, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E08 - The Eternal Engineer



Man oh man, the mood is super sullied after the Night of Red Lanterns. I was surprised that Layton actually recognised that there are now no-go zones in the train for him. And he's the King from Tail. 

It feels as if he has really played his cards badly. King Ragnar would have recognised Wilford's ruse, but none of us guessed what was his move. The Icy Bob is the legendary engineer. The water hack was his execution, and it was elegantly explained, totally pwning the Snowpiercer and it's precious engineers. 

The question is, where is the little tail engineer? I have not seen him in whole season. Did he die or something? It's just if Layton would be a real Tail king, he would recognise the physical hack. He would understand it marvellous design and he would laugh at it, instead of staring at the situation like a rabbit in the headlights.  

If King Wilford can execute this level attack on a train that keeps them all alive, he is literally owning all of them and all the lives are in his hands. Queen Audrie on her side they have everything they need to keep the kingdom going until the vicious and probably a very cold end ... of them all.

This has to be a story of how they all died. 

Thing is, with the mad scientist invention in Wilford's hand and them being so loyal, he is reaching towards immortality. And with the level of Wilford worship going around he is going to probably worshipped as a god. 

The intriguing twist is that because of the damn hack, the Snowpiercer had to slow down, explaining quite well for why Melanie was able to reach the train, even though she was days late on her schedule. 

I doubt Layton has ever faced a mastermind like Wilford in his previous life. He was a detective. Not even a chief one of them. And I doubt he were ever a player. Not in a high level power game that went between him and Wilford in the Eternal Engine. 

If he had been smart, he would have shanked the Chief Engineer as soon as he fixed the engine, instead of yielding the game. His power was born in violence, and yet, he's not willing to do it on his own.

The way I see it, this only leaves two options, another revolution or an outside hack by Melanie ... or then something really cocking up in the Eternal Engine.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 16, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> If he had been smart, he would have shanked the Chief Engineer as soon as he fixed the engine, instead of yielding the game. His power was born in violence, and yet, he's not willing to do it on his own


Layton's presidential position was already teetering before the existential crisis. He would not have gained any support by killing the legendary engineer immediately after he had heroically saved the train and everyone on it. Few would take Layton's word that the train had been sabotaged by Wilford himself.
I continue to be unimpressed with Layton's leadership abilities. He should have had a Plan B, in the highly possible event that Wilford gained the upper hand, other than firing a flare announcing his loss.
Josie's frostproof hand was a new development. Does that mean she and Icy Bob will be dating soon?
Is Roche going down with Layton? Were those is wife and daughter strapped into those drawers? Are they being put into cold storage?


----------



## ctg (Mar 17, 2021)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Layton's presidential position was already teetering before the existential crisis. He would not have gained any support by killing the legendary engineer immediately after he had heroically saved the train and everyone on it. Few would take Layton's word that the train had been sabotaged by Wilford himself.



It would have solved the Wilford problem and in his position I think he'll need to take one problem at time. After all he doesn't even have anyone to give him advice or other ideas. It's a problem that he has to be the ideas guy and not just the el presidente. 



REBerg said:


> I continue to be unimpressed with Layton's leadership abilities. He should have had a Plan B, in the highly possible event that Wilford gained the upper hand, other than firing a flare announcing his loss.



That's what I mean, he just stared at Wilford smirking at him and walking in the cockpit to announce his defeat. But what should have been his plan B, because I cannot think outside of murder anything else. He has no real abilities that I know of other then being clever and somewhat cunning. 



REBerg said:


> Josie's frostproof hand was a new development. Does that mean she and Icy Bob will be dating soon?



 No. I don't thinks so. They're already doing it. With him guarding over her and she exploring her new life. But in the story essence, as she's Layton loyalist, she's going to be the secret weapon. But knowing what the cold did to Icy Bob, can she survive the long walk?



REBerg said:


> Is Roche going down with Layton?



Yeah, I think it was his choice. They are all going into the cryonic freezer to enjoy the long sleep and possibly getting reprogrammed just like what happened to the Tailies in the drawers.


----------



## ctg (Mar 30, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E09 - The Show Must Go On



It is strange that after the takeover the train has been running smoothly with no hickups, no real problem. Almost as if either people are pleased or scared of what's coming next. Also why Ruth is now warming for rebellious ideas?

Maybe the biggest surprised Kevin's actions as Wilford's poodle. There is nothing in him left that would be original. Everything else is pushed away to show a new face, a loyal face almost as if Kevin has been castrated. With no bollocks there is no will. 

Maybe the worst faith is Layton's with him now working in the guts of the food factory. Well, I don't know if it's the worst, because the King Wilford is turning the dials towards the chaos with his Wizard of Oz trick. 

I wondered when he was going to pull a hot-air balloon out his hat, before it was revealed that the whole brainwashing program was ready to launch in the Car 272. As interesting it might be I am expecting the rebellion brewing among the passengers. The final push before submitting to whole ordeal. 

To be honest, I am expecting for a big fight that determines who is the boss. Layton told to Wilford's face, "You're not unique. You're a old, white dictator with a train set." And a psychopaths mind. 

Wilford's reply was that the peoples will were gravitating towards the obedience. That they had no choice but to accept the glory of Wilford's administration. Whatever it might be with Audrey on her side as the Queen of the Snowpiercer.

Maybe the best line came from Alex: "A train under a God and Audrey."

It is the same insanity that was present in the movie and maybe more recently in the Raised by Wolves. Thing is, everyone are quite sane and they understand what is happening, while Wilford is teetering in the brink of total madness.

The biggest asset that Wilford has Audrey with all the secrets locked in her head. Unlike other dictators, Wilford is using all of the assets to lay strong foundation for his insani... er, administration. 

Thing is, the show predicts are dark, grim, cold future, with humans at bottom of the food chain. There's not much left, and with the rule of every life matters, because they're needed in the long run to prevent us breeding insane, mutated kids. 

There is only war in the future, not peace and repopulation. What we are watching is the tale of how they all died. Especially with Alex revelation about Wilford's Purge in Big Alice.

With the second purge going on, how it is going to end?


----------



## ctg (Mar 30, 2021)

Spoiler: S02E10 - Into the White



To my eyes that looks like around solid -40 C day. With a bright sunny skies. Not that since there are no cloud cover it is colder and with the wind picking up speed, it is super cold. So believable up to -120C.

But you again look at the tower, it's solid after the magical story fix and the panels are glimmering in the sunlight. With batteries, that is good, but with the geothermal going at under, things are looking promising. The odd thing that is missing and I assume it was a production issue, but that steam would have broken through the ice and we would see dark patches, like we see in the Antartica.

Earth is alive under that white blanket, and it is warm. 

That is the hope and promise, but is Andre able to deliver the glorious second revolution?

What I like is that Layton will understood what it means to be the King. The payment is always in blood and to keep him in power, he'll need to commit to the grim job. There is no really remorse in that play, only one thing that needs to be done. 

Funny thing is that since Layton is a former homicide detective, he should know and have learned from the best in the business. The Kingpins of the lost world were the best as they had whole world in their disposal, not just a train.

If Layton studied it, he should have all the plans and lessons he needs. And first order in his business was raiding Wilford's armoury. What I loved was the fact that Ruth used gladius, which I personally have written extensively in my books. It was only designed for one business and it does it very efficiently. No questions asked.

What I don't get is why Layton didn't bring back some of the armoury pieces or some of the modern firearms Wilford most certainly had hidden in his cabin.

The only thing that went wrong was Ben losing patience in the cockpit and thinking he can take out Wilford attack dog. It was the turn that did the trick. But the mistake he did was leaving her alive. The rule #2 - Double Tap. 

The problem Wilford has is that he lost Javi and then Alex. At the end he also lost "Scream Like a Girl" Kevin to Ruth shenigans. To be honest, there's no engineers, only him that can do the job with the Snowpiercer gone back to get Melanie or rather her precious data.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 31, 2021)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Almost as if either people are pleased or scared of what's coming next. Also why Ruth is now warming for rebellious ideas?
> 
> Maybe cautious? They want security, but they've discovered democracy didn't work out too well. Yet, surely they remember how things were under the cast system as conceived by Wilford and enforced by Melanie.
> 
> As for Ruth. she likes power, and she made her choice before Wilford made his comeback. With Layton out of the way and Audrey flipped, Ruth now heads the rebels, which she prefers to being just another of Wilford "Kevins."





ctg said:


> Maybe the worst faith is Layton's with him now working in the guts of the food factory.
> 
> More like the bowels of the train. I loved how they turned the sewers into a communication system with the flush of a toilet. Ruth also surprised me by how she adapted so quickly to her new habitat.
> She was always so prim and proper in her "teals." I expected her to pass out from the stench the moment she entered the treatment center.





ctg said:


> The biggest asset that Wilford has Audrey with all the secrets locked in her head.
> 
> I am disappointed that Audrey is so firmly back in Wilford's power. She apparently has no problem with being labeled a whore and traitor in her willingness to do anything to survive





ctg said:


> There is only war in the future, not peace and repopulation. What we are watching is the tale of how they all died. Especially with Alex revelation about Wilford's Purge in Big Alice.



Wilford's plans for culling the train population should motivate unity for everyone below first-class status. I don't think any of them want to be slaughtered to free resources for more privileged passengers. 



ctg said:


> What I loved was the fact that Ruth used gladius,



She did well, plus she looks a lot cuter in braids. 


ctg said:


> The only thing that went wrong was Ben losing patience in the cockpit and thinking he can take out Wilford attack dog.


 Ben was lucky to win that little scuffle. He forgot Mark Twain's words of wisdom: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the dog."





Spoiler: POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR SEASON 3



I don't think Melanie is dead, a suspicion that may have been confirmed by show executive producer, Becky Clements. I wonder if some contract negotiations had been resolved.









						Jennifer Connelly Will Return As Melanie in 'Snowpiercer' Season 3
					

The "Snowpiercer" Season 2 finale seemed to reveal that Melanie had not survived her time in the research station – but an EP on the TNT and Netflix show has suggested things may not be as they seem.




					www.newsweek.com
				




The question remains whether Melanie will be miraculously saved or she will appear only in flashbacks.


----------



## ctg (Apr 6, 2021)

Some new stuff on how the produced this show









						Review: Sean Bean gives Snowpiercer a charismatic villain to stir the pot
					

With fictional world established, S2 is free to explore its complicated human dynamics.




					arstechnica.com


----------



## ctg (Jan 4, 2022)

January 24









						The hunt is on for a “new Eden” in Snowpiercer S3 trailer
					

"For the first time since the world ended, a brighter future awaits beyond the train."




					arstechnica.com


----------



## AE35Unit (Jan 5, 2022)

We lost interest half way through...


----------



## ctg (Jan 25, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E01 - The Tortoise and the Hare



"Two trains. Two chapters to tell. One runs fast and hot. The other lumbers slow. An armoured tortoise plotting after the hare. Everyone under a single thumb. Serving a single obsession..."

Man, the best beginning for the season. Ever. Mr Wilson is really at top of his megalomania and the train has started to resemble the one we saw in the movies. 

"Inside is a backwards world. Only one class now. The working class."

I want to give an Emmy for just the beginning, because it is capturing me in an iron grip and at the same time it is also reminding me about all sorts of things. Wild West, The End of Times, Frostpunk, and the darkness before the sunrise. 

We know from past experience that the Snowpiercer doesn't shy away showing the ultimate situations and people still pushing against them despite the odds. It is also no wonder to see the resistance alive and well at the heart of the long train. What surprised was seeing Ruth running the operations. 






She has done a remarkable job for being Wilson loyalist. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that she has turned her coat and become Layton fangirl. Maybe the people in the train are really her concern but what she's doing has nothing to do with hospitality.

Kevin however is doing a terrible job for suggesting that they'll organise a cull. Although it warmed Mr Wilford's mind, Audrey was the key to keep them alive. If that remains as a fact, King Wilford has already lost the game, because he is willing to do almost anything in order to get her back. 

From the engineering perspective Wilford is playing a losing game by not cutting what's needed. He needs the people but he doesn't really need the luxury. Especially if there is only one class, the workers and Wilford's people. And the Laytonites. 

What I don't get is how Wilford is keep the law, when he has no manpower to force it. Not against the three thousand, if they choose to uprise. He has a small band of them, but is it really enough?






We have hope people. The dialogue clashes with the information on the screen. It indicates that the temperature at outside is -31 degrees, while screen shot indicates much deadlier cold. But look at those yellow and some orange tinted areas. They are definitely warming up and we know for the fact that the track goes through the South Africa. So there can't be no denial, when the greenery starts to pop across the windows.

The problem with the fast train needs an engineering solution. All that I can come up for the cooling are extreme, but also correlates with the fact that they needs to keep moving. Roll and reset was Alex's choice and easiest solution. 

"Come back and collect us," Layton said.

He also claimed that the breach suits has 30 minutes of life in them, but in same time he isn't thinking clearly, because Ben had been out there for at least half of that time. I don't know how they count that because it is depending on the individual, their state and the state of the machine, (batteries and oxygen tanks). 

What I don't get is why he didn't trust the action to Josie alone? She has same capabilities as Icy-Bob. She can survive the cold, where as Layton is a waste for the resources. Yet, he chose to act like Captain Kirk and doing it all as if it was his task. 






"Hello down there. We got tea and biscuits!" 

I really don't get Layton's idea of being Captain Kirk on everything. Why to bring Josie if you're not going to use her? She's smaller and nimbler than him. Yet it was him that had to do the thing instead of being the smart leader, with smart being the operative word. 

So I guess it was a script thing to send him down to collect Ben, but if that is true then they really cocked up, because Layton's tank was showing more than thirty minutes of oxygen. 

The bigger problem I had was with Audrey taking over the engine with a stunner, when she isn't a fighter. I had so many facepalm moment when the characters didn't listen my advice and didn't stun her in reverse. She also didn't deal with Till, her biggest opponent. 

It took her no time to get out from the maintenance tube, arm herself and then smack sh*t out of Audries rebellion. I cheered so much. Although one niggle, hammer to back of head is very often a lethal blow. 






What is this about?


----------



## REBerg (Jan 25, 2022)

Spoiler



It took me a bit to sort out who is on what train -- after a 10-month gap between seasons.
Yeah, Ruth was a big surprise as substitute leader of the resistance. Looks like Pike has also stepped up a few rungs on the resistance leadership ladder. Kevin's role as Wilford's enforcer is a stretch.


ctg said:


> What I don't get is why he didn't trust the action to Josie alone? She has same capabilities as Icy-Bob. She can survive the cold, where as Layton is a waste for the resources. Yet, he chose to act like Captain Kirk and doing it all as if it was his task.


I also wondered why Josie was neither the solo volunteer nor the lead on the sub-zero rescue mission And why, as the lighter of the pair, she wasn't the one lowered into the hole. Layton's banter with Ben was just annoying.
Maybe the whole ice sample expedition and rescue served only to introduce the mysterious survivor who attacked Layton in the bunker. I had hoped that it was somehow a deranged Melanie, but it would appear that is not the case.
So, who is he or she? I am assuming that the survivor will figure prominently is future plot developments.


ctg said:


> What is this about?


A vision of an African tree(?) that Layton is experiencing for unknown reasons. Next stop, Africa?


----------



## ctg (Jan 25, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Looks like Pike has also stepped up a few rungs on the resistance leadership ladder.


Well, he has the potential and the face of the resistance. It's just I have a strange feeling that sooner than later he's going to die... maybe saving Ruth. 


REBerg said:


> Maybe the whole ice sample expedition and rescue served only to introduce the mysterious survivor who attacked Layton in the bunker. I had hoped that it was somehow a deranged Melanie, but it would appear that is not the case.


It must be the case, because any otherwise it doesn't make sense. Although for a moment I thought that the nuclear reactor was somehow going to be the key.

In regards of Melanie, I suspect that if they're going to bring her back, she's going to be a leader or rescuees, who rescued her for some reason and we never got see their tracks. 



REBerg said:


> So, who is he or she? I am assuming that the survivor will figure prominently is future plot developments.


A survivor who had built their own suit, which brings me back to the reactor. It had heated up the environment a great deal and it didn't look like it had gone through a meltdown. So it has to be a clue, meaning if there is power there must be heat and heat means life.



REBerg said:


> Next stop, Africa?


It's in the title sequence.


----------



## ctg (Feb 1, 2022)

Agent Rattius Maximus at your service...



Spoiler: S03E02 - The Last to Go



It's true what Ruth says about the cold in the beginning. It'll get into you and then you start to lose your mind and your will. You wish it would be a nice, warm summer day, but it'll only help you for a little while unless your persistent and persevere.  You cannot give in to the cold, because that choice will lead to death. 

I think Mr Wilford knows this well and it's no wonder why he's using it as a weapon, because there's no real defence against. The passengers of the SnowPiercer aren't fat bastards. They don't have an insulation layer and reserve energy pack that chunky people carry around. None of them are and Kevin is the least likely person to survive the cold. He is so skinny. 

Ruth however cannot stay in the freezer forever. So it is a kind of wonder why she hasn't done more to insulate the place and provide at least some level of comfort to her, rather than sticking to live under layers of clothes and persevere. Thank God she has some fat on her, but it won't last forever.

What I don't get is Wilford's EMP weapon. What is the point and why he would want to ruin a perfectly good engine on a reconnection event? It's not like he has spares to lose in case things cock up and the result is a kind of catastrophe. And some pretty auroral lights. 

I know it's a theory, but in mind, an EMP will cause the same effect as a Coronal Mass Ejection hitting the ionosphere would cause and seeing the auroral lights would be an evidence of an EMP activation.






"I didn't think anyone would love me after my parents died! We have to tell Wilford..."

"Really?"

 

Wilford kind of took in a good way. He even wanted to celebrate, which in LJ's mind only meant unicorn party, not something that the couple should be vary about. Marriage would never be official, but in her girl mind it surely was, but if they'd have done it wisely, they would have kept it private just between themselves and nobody else. 

"The Loyal Wedding" as they'd branded the occasion reminded me about the Bioshock universe, with it's weird schemes so much. Personally the Bioshock universe is the most extreme case of bad things, like racism and fascism. It is a very bleak universe on which the ST's MirrorVerse pales in comparison. 

That is very similar to the way I see Wilford's miniverse. And the funny thing is that LJ already saw herself inheriting the train and becoming a queen. I know every lady sees it that way on the wedding night and to be honest, they are the queen for the day before they become wives for a lifetime.  And Oz having a cold feet on the eve, weren't a good thing. 

Telling your psychowife that wedding is off might have some serious consequences. 

Wilford weren't having none of it. The wedding were going to happen no matter what Mr Ossweiler wanted. The weirdest thing was Wilford's ball crushing ceremony. WTF?

The speech was pure propaganda, but I'm glad that the people got some RnR. In turn I hated seeing Ruth willing walking into the brig. It was a death sentence. A suicide run, especially after the EMP were destroyed and Wilford's position revealed.






"Oh she might have a radiation poisoning..." Some people really needs to get their facts straight and eyes checked, because that lady isn't poisoned. Malnutrished maybe, but she has her teeth intact and hair on her head.

"It's an extra mouth to feed." Seriously people, like it is with the TWD, there aren't enough of living to be wasted. Every soul matters in the long run. The solution isn't Wilford or Layton's or anyone else, it's last of the humanity problem. What remains isn't much. 

Joining Wilford's train to go to Africa isn't really a good idea. 






In my mind Layton's dream translates to the World Tree and furthermore to the Gaia. It is the heart of our world that is connecting to Layton's psyche. It is a calling from a god. And it bothered me that Audrey was part of it. Before she turned evil, she was the mystical mama of this series and after that Wilford's bitch. A witch. 

The survivor could be the opposing force to the witch. In a way she has taken Melanie's post, and if Melanie would have been alive, she would have totally supported Layton's vision as what it is rather than taking Till's agnostic post. I get that she's realistic, but ever since we gained thoughts 250 000 years ago, mysticism has lead us forward. 

To be frank, science is trying to disprove all that comes out from mystic visions and it is very narrow view, because the science only knows what it can prove. By following it Earth would be frozen for a hundred year, if not a thousand and there would be no reason for searching hot spots, because they only exist in the myths.


----------



## REBerg (Feb 2, 2022)

Spoiler



I'm disappointed that the reactor survivor has not, a least so far, proven to be pivotal for the future. Layton's biggest reaction to her story came when she mentioned the marauders who had killed her colleagues, so maybe that will prove to be significant.
Other than wanting to shift the spotlight to himself, Wilford's reaction to LJ's engagement also seemed like he was seizing an opportunity to draw the resistance out of hiding. Encouraged by what Ruth saw as a distraction, the rebels felt that they could safely negate the EMP threat during the ceremony. Wilford appeared more pleased that he had captured Ruth than upset that the EMP had been destroyed.
LJ's delusions of grandeur for the future reminded me that she is as much of a psychopath as an adult as she was as a teenager.
I could do without the visionary tree mumbo-jumbo. Heading to the remaining suspected warm spot makes sense without the tree. Layton's sharing his repeating hallucination is not doing anything to bolster his already tenuous leadership credibility.


----------



## REBerg (Feb 2, 2022)

ctg said:


> Agent Rattius Maximus at your service...


----------



## ctg (Feb 8, 2022)

> If we must die, let it not be like hogs
> Hunted and penned in an inglorious spot,
> While round us bark the mad and hungry dogs,
> Making their mock at our accursed lot.
> ...


by Claude McKay



Spoiler: S03E03 - The First Blow



"There is a moment in a fight, when that first blow lands and everything stops... And in that flash of clarity, you know who you are." - Mr Wilford at the height of kingship. He realised that Big Alice was the underdog and he'd become a lazy ******* in that absence. Oh how dictatorship spoils you. You become so very blind to your pompous arrogance that you don't actually realise how weak you've become, because there was nobody telling you: "No." 

"Take the gloves off, Kevin." Well at least, King Wilford gave an order, but putting the first on Kevin's shoulders, big mistake. Kevin isn't LJ. You slap him and he cries. Punch him, he growls, but he's never a real attack dog. And boarding parties are usually very, very brutal just because there's no escape. 






"This railyard is it..." That railyard also feels like it came from the original comics. I don't have access to them, so it's speculation, but regardless well done from King Layton to not play on Wilford's terms.

He didn't show the people fairness, and an invasion is never a fair play. And in this time Wilford weren't ready to play fair either. He dragged "big as a tent" Sarah to the engine and told lies, instead of focusing on the winning the battle. 

First blows are first blows, but they are not finishing moves. They are not even mid game punches, taking out the breath. "Running cold and dark" were a problem before, but it was a nice move from Wilford's side, because running is always an option in order to live for another day. 






Asha. To my eyes, she has been institutionalised. Her suit has become her home and she has same issues of separation as Tony Stark has to his own collection. Although Asha only has one and she has been living in it for seven years. 

I suspect as we advance into the Space Age that this become a familiar thing to many people. To be honest, after living six months waiting for the Council to fix the flooded kitchen, I grew custom on wearing same things over and over again, and now I have hard time on trying other things. 

She also showed that she's been in dark for most of things and the fight between the trains isn't something she ever imagined experiencing. The curious thing is that she chose to stay out of the fight and hope for the best, while in her shoes, it would be better to put up the fight rather than wait for the appear. 






Oh Pike, you sexy *******. And Ruth, for not losing a thing. Wilford cocked up and it was the one thing he didn't expect. That his train would be delivering "the surprise" as if it was meant to be. Well, if it would have been the real new year, he'd have expect it to be working. 

Viva la Resistance! 

I hated that Strong Boy had to pay the price, while Wilford fell for the Queen bounty. He pushed the Big Alice to limit. Then he stopped and forced the fight. Layton was smart as he only needed to take down the king. 






Oh Wilford, you thought you were the smart one. Well, you might be, but you were not desperate enough after you got the bounty. Instead he was just fuming on anarchy and being spoiled to core by his dictatorship, when he should have remembered that "Absolute power corrupts absolutely!" 






Drawers. I am curious to find out what sort of changes might have happened this time, but I'm also equally curious of why they didn't put Wilford in, but rather had him in a cage. It is a security risk, because there are still loyalists in the train, and if he'd been removed from the picture and put in the draw, it would have eliminated a lot of tension. It is just not a simple thing to take out from hibernation. You need a willing doctor to do it. 

Interesting thing is that Layton didn't op to be a king, but his first order was the elections. Will he survive it? I don't know, but my vote would go for Ruth or Pike. Ruth for being the mother and Pike the father, and for Layton I'd give peace and a detective role. He is not the leader that they'll need, but the light that shines on their path.

"We press on..." This is the way!



Well done Snowpiecer team and Netflix! Beautiful episode!


----------



## REBerg (Feb 9, 2022)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> I'm also equally curious of why they didn't put Wilford in, but rather had him in a cage. It is a security risk, because there are still loyalists in the train, and if he'd been removed from the picture and put in the draw, it would have eliminated a lot of tension.


I had thought (and hoped) that Layton was going to beat Wilford to death.
While I can see that keeping deposed King Wilford in a cage will be more punishing to him than martyrhood, it does keep him around to provide future conflict.
That is sure to come if Layton's big lie is discovered before they reach the promised land. I suspect that Asha will leak the secret during one of the brief times she leaves her security helmet.
LJ's instant defection at the news of Layton's victory was not a surprise. Despite slashing Kevin's throat (yay!), LJ's pro-resistance declaration was less than convincing. I don't doubt that her sadist core was thoroughly enjoying Big Boy's fatal torturing -- right up until the time came to switch sides.


----------



## ctg (Feb 9, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> While I can see that keeping deposed King Wilford in a cage will be more punishing to him than martyrhood, it does keep him around to provide future conflict.


Exactly. Wilford should be going into the drawer, even if he provides an interesting angle for the writers to explore while he's in the cage. He is a security risk. In the cage much bigger than in the drawer. 



REBerg said:


> That is sure to come if Layton's big lie is discovered before they reach the promised land. I suspect that Asha will leak the secret during one of the brief times she leaves her security helmet.


There has to be more to her story that she hasn't revealed yet. I don't trust her, not just because she might spill the secrets, but there's something in her that says danger.


REBerg said:


> LJ's instant defection at the news of Layton's victory was not a surprise. Despite slashing Kevin's throat (yay!), LJ's pro-resistance declaration was less than convincing. I don't doubt that her sadist core was thoroughly enjoying Big Boy's fatal torturing -- right up until the time came to switch sides


She should be offed. Sooner better. Although I loved that she finished Kevin, even I wish she would have saved him for Mr Pike.


----------



## ctg (Feb 15, 2022)

"Mum, why are you haunting me?"



Spoiler: S03E04 - Bound by One Track



My index finger hurst so we'll see how long this is going to be. Wilford said, "Weakest are those who suffer from memories. The strongest carry the past like fuel to ignite a patch forward."   

I'd say it's depends on the memories and the past. And if you didn't suffer, you're either a) robot or b) demented. Suffering makes us strong. It's part of the life. Pike should remember that but he's too bitter on everything. Then again, the whole train is full of people who has lost too much and they don't see the bright shining future. 

To be frank, even if they'd find New Eden, it's going to be a struggle to rebuild and repopulate the land with what they have. Maybe the show should be the last hurrah for the glory of the mankind. Just like King Wilford would like it to be. 

Thing that surprised me was that Wilford knows the track like his own pockets and somehow he remembers turns and bumps. 






Those train cars were frozen solid on the tracks and to be honest, it would have been easier to blow them up than try to free them. Maybe they could have even connected the engine and allowed the cars to power up and unfreeze, while they would have looted the contents. 

Why? Well, scavenging is always an option and it should always be utilised when there is a chance. And the dead people should be a problem. At least they should have gone into the compost, because every little thing matters, when you have next to nothing. 

I get that for Wilford's people those three cars would have been full of horrors, but for the Snowpiercer they could have done with the stripping the cars in no time. The only problem though is that they don't have many breach suits. 

What I don't get is why our ice lady wasn't tasked to free the cars?

She would not have suffered from the PTSDs. She might even had a brain to not use explosives under the freaking car, meter away from the blast point. Have they forgotten the safety rules or is it that they no longer apply, because there are no laws?

Maybe the biggest surprise was that they lost Mr Wilford to Roche's revenge. The most amazing thing was with Alex starting to use her mum's gift and starting to see things like Nicola Tesla. Maybe she will save them all. 

Is Wilford going into the drawer?


----------



## REBerg (Feb 15, 2022)

Spoiler



Damn! Another wasted opportunity to be rid of WIlford!
This time, he was saved by the mistaken belief that only his expertise could solve the train issue. Next time, they should realize that Alex knows as much as her psychotic teacher, as long as she gets a little hallucinatory cheerleading from her mother. Then, they'll be free to "cull" the old *******.
I hope Melanie's role going forward will be more corporeal than a figment of Alex's imagination.


ctg said:


> What I don't get is why our ice lady wasn't tasked to free the cars?


According to Ben, freeing the cars was a "two engineer job." I don't recall was Josie was before her enhancement, but I don't think she was in the engineering department


ctg said:


> And the dead people should be a problem. At least they should have gone into the compost, because every little thing matters, when you have next to nothing.


Why not just hook the cars to Snowpiercer and take them along? What's a little freezer burn when you might need an emergency meat supply on your way to a dubious Eden? 


ctg said:


> Is Wilford going into the drawer?


That would be the best place for him.


----------



## ctg (Feb 15, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> This time, he was saved by the mistaken belief that only his expertise could solve the train issue. Next time, they should realize that Alex knows as much as her psychotic teacher, as long as she gets a little hallucinatory cheerleading from her mother. Then, they'll be free to "cull" the old *******.


I really wonder their citizens. They all seem to be sheep instead of individuals and they'll go wherever the wind blows. Where is all bickering, comments and all the other things that they should do, but we'll never see them as all we get are the main characters.

Alex should realise that she's one of them and not part of the elite. She might have her mother's gift and blessing in the brain department, but does she really have the balls?



REBerg said:


> Why not just hook the cars to Snowpiercer and take them along? What's a little freezer burn when you might need an emergency meat supply on your way to a dubious Eden?


Exactly, even if they drag them as long as they strip them from useful parts or even bring them back in working order. I wish I'd have access to those original comics to see if they've ventured far from the original story. Still it's cool that they keep going when all the others are frozen. 

Also did you notice that Layton has stopped receiving visions?


----------



## REBerg (Feb 16, 2022)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Also did you notice that Layton has stopped receiving visions?


He hasn't stopped talking about his visionary magic tree, though, which is making him look more like a fanatic than a leader.
Ruth seemed to dismiss Pike's opinion that she would be a better leader than Layton, but the seed has been planted.


----------



## ctg (Feb 22, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E05 - A New Life



I did find the Tail tradition of naming the babies after the last cities they passed a bit weird. Then again they're not actually doing their duties and making babies as everyone are still reeling back from all that darkness. 

In ways the train feels like a prison. One of their own choosing and there is no escape from it until we reach the miracle land. While this episode feels like a filler from the beginning it is giving us a bit more insight for the life inside the Snowpiercer. 

It is kind of strange the train doesn't have a media, because getting the baby would make the headlines. All they have is Ruth and the intercom. But the thing is nobody is recording nothing. So, in a way the miracle baby's birth is lost in the history. Therefore, if the New Eden turns out to be the real thing, all of that is lost and when the participants die, so will the history. 

When you really think about it, it's kind of strange that the train doesn't have a science car to do all sort of measurements and experiments on the atmosphere. None of that is happening unless the passengers do something about it. Like Dr Underwood. 

They claimed that it's to study the cold, but only subject we have seen are the humans, not the nature and its species. Why to ignore it? What does she know that we don't?

I'm really wrapping foil here but there is something that we haven't been told, and I'm not talking about not just about the vandalism in the train. I think that's just random acts of disobedience, because they've nothing to do in the train and baby can alleviate it for a very short while. 

But there is no fix. It is the same old day in, day out. So in my mind the question becomes will the train go through another messy carnage or will they reach the destination before the rumble in the jungle become too loud.

In the BSG they had that pleasure world craft that they dragged all across the galaxy, but for our people it's nothing but the same old. What will happen when the patience runs out?


----------



## REBerg (Feb 22, 2022)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> So, in a way the miracle baby's birth is lost in the history. Therefore, if the New Eden turns out to be the real thing, all of that is lost and when the participants die, so will the history.





Spoiler



If no humans survive to read their history, would it matter?

Frosty, the Baby, seemed surprisingly normal, considering that she appeared to be freezing Zarah's birth canal as she emerged. Maybe a little ice buildup helped her slide out. No doubt her true artic superpowers will appear as she grows.

The professional friction between the two medical attendants during the birth was amusing. "Normal" was an especially subjective perception.

Pike finally decided on his train role -- saboteur. I don't know if he just wants to undermine Layton's leadership or if he actually wants to assassinate him.

Ruth made the right choice in putting the brakes on her developing romance with Pike. Someone needs to convince him that the resistance was aimed at Wilford, not his successor.


----------



## ctg (Mar 1, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E06 - Born to Bleed



Pike, he feels like a King. A lost king or the one that should have been leading the train, when the Tail took over. All of it was put on Layton's shoulders, while he managed the business with the people, whoever they were. You could claim that he's the XO of this train we are taking every week for about fifty minutes and hope that they'll reach a station. 

But when you think about all that he has done in the past, mostly invisible to the camera's eyes, it's no wonder why he's feeling disgruntled. It's as if obeys to him, but not show respect, while with Mr Wilford, it was all about glory and fanfare.

At the same time he's going through phobias, battling with the past ghosts with no relief in the sight. It's sad that it has made him paranoid and unable to see the reality around him, because if he'd take his place and enjoy the life, they could ride to the New Eden just fine.

The question is, when is he going to crack and release the beast?

He calmly watched as Layton struggled to come up with the right suspect. Trying to blame Wilford instead of using that brain and skills.






Ruth, Pike's Queen. She feels like the peg that is holding the barrel that is Mr Pike from spilling out in the most drastic way possible. She is the mother or should I say a Matron mother for all that is left and when she's gone, nothing is going to stop them from going to hell. So as long as she's fine, we have hope ...  

... from her PoV the train is not fine. Everyone are in need of RnR and some time off. A big siesta on a sunny, warm beach with nothing to worry about. I love that she still tries, even by giving orders and not caring about the moment, because things are needed. Roche included. 

She most certainly did the right thing by leaving him the padded cell. Carly wasn't having none of it. But curiously she got through to her old man. Made him talk, confess to his emotion, while Ruth just put up the wall.






Till, the new detective. I have to say that she's a bloodhound, as you set her on track, she won't let go. I expected her to make connections sooner than Layton voicing it. If she'd been smart, she would have come in quiet, instead of allowing Mr Pike run all over the train. In places, she feels like a yes-man than a privileged passenger or even a detective.

She stood by Layton's side while they announced to the Tailies that Pike was not be trusted. All while Pike was digging the ground from under Layton's New Eden deal. Why does she have to show other dog like qualities, like guarding the master after the scent had gone cold. 

Why could she not follow Ruth, when she revealed that Pike and her are close. Could she not made the connection, not that Layton could do it either with his extensive real world experience. Follow the love and you'll find the man. 

At least she went to Layton, with "corner a desperate man," excuse as soon as she realised how much was in stake. She definitely loves he man, but she loves the life more and all people in the train. 

"Where he would go next?" Layton asked. 

Ruth rolled her eyes. "He know ever corner and cupboard on this train. If he want to stay hidden, he will." 

The surprise twist was with the Tailie tradition. It was an easy solution, instead of searching the whole train from Tail to Engine. The thing that didn't surprise me was the fight-to-the-death clause, because as soon as it was said, it was already set. 






It's weird that while this happened, Wilford was finding the tree pictures. Pike wanted to go for the fight from the beginning, while Layton, Ruth and all the others wanted him to come clear and smell the coffee. Although the only truth was coming from Pike as he told "I felt being just an errand boy," instead of XO. But a man like Mr Pike, would he really want a title, when he's already so deep in the anarchy that you could say that he's a punk. 

Andre confessed to everything and claimed that everything was behind them, but all Pike wanted was the knives. It is an exit. A death wish. The end or everything. 

"Look at the power you have," Pike sneered. "You just offer me the world now." 

Layton chuckled, nervously. "We have come a long way." 

"And yet here we are. Back in the Tail. Now you can dangle the luxury of change, but the Tail needs justice. And what can Pike offer to Layton?"

He is so willing to paint himself in the corner that you have to wonder if he loves being in the misery?  

"I want you to be godfather to Lianna. I'm serious. You want respect? Pike, that's family."

"I don't want respect." 

Layton pulled out Ruth card and smeared it on King Pike's face. I loved that the reply was "The New Eden" fabrication. It is so human, but also logical to question the story, when there is no solid evidence to back the claim. 

For being smart man Layton realised that the only solution to keep the "hope" going was to commit to the fight. 

A king is dead. Long live the king Layton, with all his worries and sorrows. King Pike was a good, bad man. He was a fighter and a leader. It's damn shame that he had to die for Layton to see his trees again.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 2, 2022)

Spoiler






ctg said:


> A king is dead. Long live the king Layton, with all his worries and sorrows. King Pike was a good, bad man. He was a fighter and a leader. It's damn shame that he had to die for Layton to see his trees again.



I honestly thought that the Pike-Layton face-off would be resolved without the knives. I was sorry to be wrong.
Pike couldn't get over being used by Layton as an assassin. He didn't want to continue serving Layton in any capacity. Not even the possibility of a life with Ruth could change his mind.

Continuing on the subject of failed relationships, I was not surprised that Audrey was outraged at Wilford's vestigial personality. It wasn't the man she wanted. It was the power.
Will her rejection somehow spark his rehabilitation and regeneration as the Great Engineer?


----------



## ctg (Mar 2, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Pike couldn't get over being used by Layton as an assassin. He didn't want to continue serving Layton in any capacity. Not even the possibility of a life with Ruth could change his mind.


It's shame when there are no stops, nothing they could use to have a relief. It's all full forward, until they find New Eden ... or death. I thought that they would have put Pike in the drawer for later use. It would have been a punishment and it would have saved King Pike. 



REBerg said:


> Continuing on the subject of failed relationships, I was not surprised that Audrey was outraged at Wilford's vestigial personality. It wasn't the man she wanted. It was the power.


Yeah, she wanted to be the real Queen and when a man, again, couldn't deliver ... 









REBerg said:


> Will her rejection somehow spark his rehabilitation and regeneration as the Great Engineer?


I think the great engineer is too far into New Eden deal to be Great the other way.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 2, 2022)

ctg said:


> Yeah, she wanted to be the real Queen and when a man, again, couldn't deliver ...


----------



## Anthony Grate (Mar 3, 2022)

I haven't completed season 2 yet, but one thing I can say for sure is that the TV series is far more interesting to me than the film.


----------



## ctg (Mar 9, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E07 - Ouroboros



Very intriguing title. The last time I remember it being used were with the Millenium series. Then again, the train and it's annual cycles also represent Ouroboros, a snake eating it's own tail. It is also same as Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End. 

It intrigued me more that Layton had ended in the land in between, and his version of the Underworld was the train, and it's passengers. I know it's a difficult to comprehend, when you are talking about a vision, but it's also not the first time a train has been the vessel between the worlds. But it is clear that his time is coming nearer. The circle keeps tightening. 






I loved that Till was the caretaker of Layton's soul. In the essence, they are all already dead, but Layton just arrived. Knowing nothing, of course he asked, "How can I get out?"

Till answered, "If you want to get back, you need to find the Tail, and ask the Tail Boss to send you home." My suspicion being at that point it being Mr Pike. Karma, in other words, is a bitch. But let's see how well I did with my prediction. 

I loved that Till gave the instructions on how to get the Papers to cross the bureaucracy of the Underworld. It is another bitch, keeping you there and not coming back to the Land of Living.






Death Pass. Note only for 'Temporary Travel,' with Mr Bennett doing the forging while listening to the golden oldies. Time in the nether-realm is basking in that golden light.  He tried to ease Layton to realise that he wasn't going anywhere. The Death had grip on him and it wasn't letting go that easily. 

He tried to hint that it's not an easy journey to get back, when death is much more likely option as the circle keeps tightening. I smiled when the next stop was with the cartographer. It also didn't surprise me that the Death Pass came with a price tag. 

Time is money and vesting yourself to investigation could easily mean that you'll run out. For some weird reason Ruth gave him a pass, while in the real world, we heard that he was suffering from a brain injury.

Nobody walks out from the knife fight unhurt. Trapped in the Underworld is tricker spot. 






Rumcar, not Nightcar. It's so hard to leave the Underworld, when it's filled with so many pleasures. Endless amount of rum and hot ladies. And the heat that makes you want to go to sleep and take it easy. Just chill, and not worry about anything. Especially not the time. 

They did fantastic job on tying in the Cuban revolution, but in the Market the same thing was everywhere as the revolutionaries were keeping an eye on him. What surprised me was that the cartographer, Zarah had a place in there.

She showed the map and said, "Getting to the Tail, that's the easy part." The rest became muddled when Wilford's people caught Layton again. He warned, "What you don't know might hurt you."

When they next brought him into the dining car, I just wanted to chill. Spark a smoke, pop open a rum bottle and forget the boring old world. I wanted Layton to do the same, but he wasn't listening. Instead he went on and bought the doll, laying on Mr Pike's corpse in the real world. 

I think the hula-girl might have represented the token of his soul, since he weren't carrying the coins. As a result most hilarious carnage I've seen for a while, with LJ as Layton's jailer. And Mr Pike as Layton's confessor.

It made laugh my bottom off when Layton claimed that his deal allowed him, "...to keep the secrets." His time was running out, as in the real world, Audrey did her mystical connection things and got Layton out, just in time. 






The Death. Layton approached her and said, "You run the train." 

"Yes. I do," Death answered. 

"The power's in the Tail. It's upside down," Layton suggested.

"There's no up, no down. The train is cyclical. It's a cruel loop." 

Layton looked down, "Right. I saw the map, a snake eating its tail. How do I get back out of the loop?"

Death refused to answer. She tortured the king, for a reason. For him to understand what was at the stake. The end of line, time running out. However, the end wasn't at the tail, but at the beginning, in the glacier at that power plant. In Layton's hell, where he keeps killing himself, endlessly, unable to get out. 

Funny thing is that his saviour was Josie, leading him back to the Tree. The beginning. Only except that tree was in the October shot in a calender. What an irony.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 9, 2022)

Spoiler



I've never had much use for dream sequences, and this one was no exception. Layton's concussion-induced imagination may have been fun for the cast -- trying their hands at different roles in a slightly alternate setting-- but the episode didn't provide much plot locomotion. 
It was an unnecessarily elaborate way to convince Layton that his vision of New Eden was not real. Beyond that, all I got here was that Audrey and Wilford may yet prove useful and that Melanie may have somehow not only escaped death but found another means of traveling the rails with Snowpiecer and Big Alice.
I hope that Melanie's survival story will be credibly expanded in a near-future installment.


----------



## ctg (Mar 15, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E08 - Setting Itself Right 



If it's not the tree, it's Melanie.  It is a long reach and all they've done are those, even though by looks of things, they've gained main stability inside the train. Everything is working as intended, minus the wear on things. People in places even seem happy despite all the losses. 

Asha called it hope, while Layton were troubled by his revelation.






"Have you seen this?" Layton asked. 

"Yeah, on my locker wall," Asha answered. Oh Layton, the look on his face was pure defeat. Haunted by revelation, even by the fact that he had put down his friend he grasped on the only hope, Melanie even though there should be a realistic, logical answer to all of it. 

"Why do you need her back?" Layton asked Mr Wilford. 

"Another engineer onboard is good for all," Wilford answered. True, because they don't really have the number or the abilities that Melanie posses. He even seemed to have accepted his defeat and his place in the order of things. And he was right on telling that Layton needs Melanie more than he does.

Ben seemed optimistic, while Alex veered towards pessimism. She even quoted, "if we have have to try, we have to try," from the defeatist book. It would be incredible if she were alive after all this time. Then Ashe brought the bad news,






The funniest thing is that while Asha was doing science by taking in measurements, Layton looked outside and saw a humongous yellow cloud spreading across the horizon. A toxic cloud that could suffocate the whole train. 

Second funniest thing was LJ freaking out on Melanie news. "She's my arch-enemy," she screamed at hubby. "What she's going to do when she hears we are running the night car?"

LOL

Wilford identified the cloud as volcanic and Alex confirmed it. All it can tell is that the planet is alive and it's changing back from the snowball mode. But there was no reverse, no stop as they went into the cloud unclear what would happen at the end.

Thing that surprised me was LJ's willingness to enter into the icelady program, while the plants started to die from the atmospheric poisoning. Why is it that the train doesn't have sensors to recognise gas leaks? They take the air from outside, heat it up and circulate it throughout the train, before it's released out and new supply is taken in. 

In theory if they had big enough agricultural section they could keep all the traps shut. Now a lot of it is gone. Maybe the strangest thing is that nobody went to check and nobody watched outside the windows to see the land changing around them. Instead they are all slowly going mad. 

The last of humanity. Would it be a relief it they'd have stayed in the cloud?






A fine instrument to fix things, a crowbar.   Of course it's a normal thing to have these precision instruments in the train or even having to had to use it to fix things. Too bad Asha couldn't pass it on and now it's in the vent. Maybe it's waiting there for the next time with a skeleton holding onto it.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 15, 2022)

Spoiler



Looks like the is-she-or-isn't-she, Melanie mortality tease will continue right up to, if not through, the season finale. They've added the option of recovering her dead body to the possibilities. Maybe all they'll find is a note telling them where she took shelter.

The worst thing about LJ's initiation into the ice capades was her insistence on watching the bloody removal of a sizeable sample of her own skin. The masochist in her wouldn't be deprived of the experience.

On the subject of chills, when is the newest arrival going to manifest her altered genetic powers? I don't think the series will keep chugging along until she reaches puberty.

RIP, Asha. I should have seen what was coming when then started to flesh out her character./SPOILER]


----------



## ctg (Mar 15, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Looks like the is-she-or-isn't-she, Melanie mortality tease will continue right up to, if not through, the season finale. They've added the option of recovering her dead body to the possibilities. Maybe all they'll find is a note telling them where she took shelter.


Is there a possibility that the person is not Melania? Could someone had been able to fabricate a machine that goes on those tracks?






If it is Melanie does she have a rat farm with her?


----------



## ctg (Mar 22, 2022)

Spoiler: S03E09 - A Beacon for us All



Oh man, I feel so giddy for seeing a new train on the tracks. This is so exciting because it's our main vessel. It was also so strange to see Melanie hooked up to a number of IV's, almost as if she's a pioneer on a new frontier at somewhere in the space. But it also means that the rat colony including Rattius Maximus' cousins has perished. 

It is even stranger that inside the mini-engine...






...she's putting herself into hibernation, on 8 day cycles with nobody checking after her vitals or changing IV's. How is Melanie able to cope with the hibernation medication when it makes everyone else so woozy or even speak in strange tongues? Also she doesn't seem to be starving. 






Super-risky move, especially with those gangerenous veins spreading across her neck. It reminds me about Viv and what we went through and to be honest, it wasn't nice and they're not even showing the poop problem. Any doctor would stop this experiment and go bonkers on telling how much she's doing wrong on putting herself in such risk for 172 days. 

Her going to sleep and not knowing if she wakes, made me so sad and angry at the same time. I wanted Layton to get on with the rescue business. Nobody in the engine had any idea in what situation she had put herself in when the Snowpiercer reached her. 






I had no idea that Snowpiercer had a pop-up crane hidden in one of the cars. Thing that I loved more was seeing our Ice-lady in the action. She is kind of a super hero, even if she's only resistant to the cold. I bet that it would have been easily -100 something in the wind, and yet she did secure the whole thing like a professional. 

It made me so happy when Mr Wilford chuckled on the rescue. Melanie waking up was even harder thing for me to watch, because of so many memories. It was sweet but also so very sad, full of emotion. 

Her arrival also switched the story to another mood, as if suddenly the Snowpiercer would come to the Terminus as they prepared to whizz by the Great Pyramids in style. Strangest thing was Melanie didn't approve Layton lying about the New Eden. Not that she could really do anything about it other than just fly with it. 

Slightly weirder thing is that her arrival also started to heal things, to close wounds that has been bleeding in the train for a while, like for example Javi. Him she started mending with a simple hug.






LJ business, whole different ballgame. She has remained antagonist this whole and it's not like she's was ever going to give up.

While Wilford was mending the relationship by plugging the holes to the New Eden story - according to him the Horn of Africa is their end, but not by means of the hope, but the opposite as if suddenly the track would come to an end - LJ was moving on with the poison plot in the welcome party. Even threatening doing Bobbit on hubby without him even cheating.  
It made me hope that the Welcoming Party wasn't going to turn to a Wake Party because of the chemical hazard. It most certainly were a close with so many people attending to the event. "It's not every day when your friend come back from the dead," Ruth described it. 

What I didn't get was that poison was meant for Wilford. The intriguing detail was that Melanie didn't need to be poisoned as Wilford's ideas had already done it. And he used it to laze the "victory" cigars he offered to his guards, as they arrived to the Great Pyramids. 






Man, they look positively ready to get toasty. It is also intriguing that from this angle they look like four and the fifth (lost one) is also still being in the play. When the ice melts, Sahara should be a savanna again. Just like it was when those thing were build, according to some theories. And yes, without wrapping foil, I don't believe in the official dating. 

The lost civilisations are more plausible, following the evidence of the Great Flood being a real thing. Not starting on the other things. What I didn't see coming was Melanie's announcement on New Eden. It broke the camel's back and allowed Melanie to commandeer the engine, once again with all hope lost in the icy wind. 

I also don't approve that Melanie somehow found the first class body guards alive and loyal to her ideas.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 22, 2022)

Spoiler



I was surprised at how small Melanie's survival vehicle was. I don't recall any comparative scene to gauge its size before it was running alongside Snowpiercer.
I wondered how they were going to get her out and make the transfer. I didn't expect that they would be able to hoist the mini locomotive off the tracks and lower it aboard Snowpiercer through a car roof.

I was disappointed at how quickly Melanie re-took command of the train and exposed Layton's New Eden lie. Given that Layton was taking everyone on a possibly one-way trip to an uncertain goal, it was the right decision.
If the mission remains aborted, though, no one will ever know if New Eden exists outside Layton's imagination. If some other catastrophe befalls the train, the people will be quick to condemn Melanie, whether New Eden, is real it not.

I suspect that Wilford wanted Melonie back because he thought her return would foster divisiveness among the populace. Maybe it's part of his master plan.
Now that he has murdered his way out of captivity, the tables have turned, Layton is (for the moment) in charge, and the Wilfordites have become the resistance.


----------



## ctg (Mar 29, 2022)

This series is at the moment far more interesting to me than TWD. I don't know how it has done it, but they have pulled all the plugs and wired this beast to go eleven. Thank you Netflix and Snowpiercer crew for making the effort and this series quite unique.



Spoiler: S03E10 - The Original Sinners



Why the revolution is always the topic in the Snowpiercer? It is almost like their original sin, to not understand the life inside the train, and trying to maintain the ridiculous ways, when the reality is they are all passengers behaving very badly.

Melanie went and described herself as the monster, for shattering the dream, because she's not really ready to make the leap of faith. The Ice Lady described it the best, "Melanie dropped the bomb. Whether the Tail will for New Eden or they'll fight for Layton's vision of New Eden."

Javi however was the opposite, him being tired of lies and wanting Melanie to put back the train on how it was before all of it happened. As if the life on tracks was the only way forward, even though the evidence points to warming.

Third party to the Original Sin of the train full of lies is Mr Wilford. To be honest, they should put them all out of the airlock and be done with the conflicts in one smooth move. He also brought back Icy Boki, as a resurrected breacher dressed in the cold suit, thanks to the Headwood's cryo research and the ability to go bonkers on forbidden sciences.






One way to describe this is using a vulgar term of a C Fck and the other inevitable as the whole train is a mad house. To be honest, I'd like them all wearing a tin foil hat, so that the "other parties" cannot hear their thinking. It would a right and a proper response to the current situation instead of sitting quietly on their seats.

Funny thing is that Ben described their situation as "The science merits the risk," even though his side stands on Layton's visions, and not just on the scientific evidence that backs up the so-called New Eden.

As a viewer you don't really know what's going on, because we know, like everyone in the train, that vision is just something we have been brainwashed to think as circumstantial evidence and not a fact. "The future is always moving," Yoda would describe. And Layton went along the same way, by saying that "the Engineers measurements back the vision," thus solidifying the claim. But as it's always, the opposing side of the conflict, has their own agendas, their on ways on how the future should unfold and for Mr Wilford it is the the Empire inside the train.

Layton laid it to the Tailies by saying, "I can't promise you that New Eden can support life long-term, but the Tail knows... neither can this train. We've suffered under Melanie's rule before. We cannot go back to that."






"I heard stories about you. About how ruthless you could be. Congratulations, Mum. Who knew you'd made your literally righter after we saved you?" Well said girl. The only thing I'd have added, "Where did you get the instant bodyguards? Did you throw water on them and they just grew suits, glasses, earpieces and the attitude that nothing has happened?"

Melanie tried to explain her move through looking things rationally. It failed, but at least she was a woman enough to meet Layton at the Underway. She put down her claim on the track being never tested, because nobody had cojones to go through the turn.

Layton wasn't having none of it, as he told Melanie to, "Take the turn or the Tail Army will do it for you." None of them voiced the mini-engine and sending someone to scout the bloody track as all they wanted to was to have a clash. All Melanie could do was the claim that it was not safe, and therefore her rule should be the only way forward. Thus returning to the original sin in living in the dictatorship under Mr Wilford rule and Melanie controlling the engine.

F that. Thank goodness Ruth wasn't having none of Melanie's madness. To be honest, none of them were having anything other than a traditional clash reaching both ends of the train. The machine was built for the survival, not for having clashes inside.






That is a beautiful thing. A proper shield wall, with poky things sticking out from it. I also loved one of the gardeners offing the fighters with his garden hose. On the others side Wilford were fanning the flames, and getting properly pissed as if drinking is the only way to cope with thoughts of carnage and losing to the peasants. 

He was even enjoying the old fashion public torture, when Melanie arrived to Wilford's court. I liked that the king proceeded to lick her bottom and only seeing his way forward. Melanie wanted to remove him from the power by controlling the Snowpiercer's engine. It is a deal made with a devil, because nothing with Mr Wilford is set in the stone.

His way is the only way. Layton's way is the alternative. I also liked that Ruth's  Agent Rattius Maximus also played a role in the battle by relying crucial information. What I don't get is why Roche was so willing to be the middle man?

He was visibly scared on Tail showing power and unity by standing behind the idea of the New Eden. But the bravest thing was done by Audrie, vehemently opposing the king and by Ruth smacking Icy Boki with a snow shovel as part of the Layton's plan.

Twist was put Mr Wilford in the Mini-Engine with six month supply of suspension drugs. "Now we'll see who's the real survivor," he claimed as he entered the command. Then they gave the passengers a chance to vote for New Eden or with Snowpiercer helmed by Melanie.

It is a compromise, but it is a democratic compromise allowing the people to literally vote with their feet. A sad compromise, but a needed one. The breakups made me cry. I might have PTSDs from them as well. 






The New Eden track, narrow and scary but doable, if you have the balls. Bigger, better. Speed is the only way when you're on the highway to hell or heaven. Slow down and you'll die. The surprise in the sunrise, rabidly rising temperature near 0 C. The freezing point of water. Yet, when they came out, what they saw was






That bridge ain't gonna buff out, it might need some banging too. Hold my beer. We'll get it done!

WTF was that end with the rocket?


----------



## REBerg (Mar 29, 2022)

Spoiler



What? No mention of LJ's fitting end?
When she popped her late dad's glass eye back into her mouth, ongoing proof of her psychotic status, I said aloud "I hope she chokes on it. "
Boom! Wish granted!  
Why did they waste the mini-engine by using it to exile Wilford? They must have plenty of guest room in the drawers to keep him out of play. 
I thought the mini-engine could have been rigged to scout the condition of the tracks to New Eden, negating the need to separate Big Alice from Snowpiercer and split the survivors.


ctg said:


> WTF was that end with the rocket?


It was spotted 3 months after the separation, which might have given Wilford time to find a missile cache. Was it a signal? The rocket pieces raining down on Snowpierecer at the end indicated that the projectile was a big one, perhaps ICBM-sized. They could do some serious damage.


ctg said:


> He also brought back Icy Boki, as a resurrected breacher dressed in the cold suit, thanks to the Headwood's cryo research and the ability to go bonkers on forbidden sciences


Boki's big scene reminded me of the one from _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, when after the martial art dude's razzle-dazzle skill display, Indiana pulled out his gun and shot him. One bonk for Boki, and the unstoppable ice warrior was out cold, if not returned to the dead.


----------



## ctg (Mar 29, 2022)

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> What? No mention of LJ's fitting end?
> When she popped her late dad's glass eye back into her mouth, ongoing proof of her psychotic status, I said aloud "I hope she chokes on it. "
> Boom! Wish granted!


Is she dead? That is the question, LJ had so minimal role, but I should have mentioned her. It's just I didn't really know what to say about her, other than I was really disappointed. She should have known better and with her, she didn't really use the brain God had blessed her. It was twisted, but in a way it was also really sharp. And somehow she managed to survive as a psycho killer for very long time after she'd revealed her cards. 

Choking on a trophy, karma paid its due. She should've known better. Now it's an express ticket to downstairs or very bloody horrible time in the ER under Dr Headwood.


REBerg said:


> It was spotted 3 months after the separation, which might have given Wilford time to find a missile cache. Was it a signal? The rocket pieces raining down on Snowpierecer at the end indicated that the projectile was a big one, perhaps ICBM-sized. They could do some serious damage.


I thought I saw a parashute opening and a pilot. The explosion also strangely cleared the cloud cover, and in the original books, they had a tribe that had underground. So we can only assume that they're going boldly and showing the next phase in the madness that is the Snowpiercer.


REBerg said:


> Boki's big scene reminded me of the one from _Raiders of the Lost Ark_, when after the martial art dude's razzle-dazzle skill display, Indiana pulled out his gun and shot him. One bonk for Boki, and the unstoppable ice warrior was out cold, if not returned to the dead


To me it was GoT's Mountain. That King Wilford wanted to have his unbeatable champion, like he has the trained attack dog. And everyone of those things are going to provoke his to power trip. Imagine Darth Vader going bonkers, and slaughtering a whole star destroyer for sh*ts and giggles, sort of thing. For his age, he should play wiser role, but I get that writers and directors have their own view on things.


----------



## REBerg (Mar 29, 2022)

Spoiler



Well, I'll consider her dead until next season -- hopefully, beyond.


----------

