# You know what this place needs?



## Paige Turner (Apr 11, 2006)

A place to mock Ralph Bakshi. I can wax poetic about the Sixteen Deficiencies of Ralph Bakshi. Anybody? I just KNOW I have kindred spirits out there.


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## GrownUp (Apr 11, 2006)

There _must_ be a limit to how many threads a person can start in 5 minutes. 

STOP DRINKING COFFEE, PAIGE. 

Also... who is Ralph Bakshi?


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## Paige Turner (Apr 11, 2006)

GrownUp said:
			
		

> There _must_ be a limit to how many threads a person can start in 5 minutes.
> 
> STOP DRINKING COFFEE, PAIGE.



You know, it's funny you should say that, because this morning was a bit weird that way. I got up really early, because the guys who come to fill the newspaper boxes are really noisy, and now we have like three new free daily papers, and how can there be enough advertisers to support three free daily newspapers anyway, but they woke me up and I was feeling all dragged out and thought I need to get some caffeine into my system in a hurry you know so I made myself this wicked coffee to get out the door and headed off to work, you know, figuring, why sit around at home at four-thirty in the morning, when i can get some work done, but that's a joke, because all I did when I got here was have another cup of coffee and start cruising the forums, and see what's going on, but one of my forums is down with some kind of server problem, so I figure I'll just check out the SciFi crowd, right, they're my peers, they're a pretty scrappy lot, and see what's going on out there, but what happens is, I have a total Twilight Zone Burgess Meredith moment, because there's nobody else out there, but maybe that reference is a bit obscure, because how many people remember that old twilight zone episode anyway, boy this coffee is good, what was I saying, oh yeah it was also like _28 days later_ at the beginning when the streets are completely empty, and anyways I got kind of panicky, like you do when you think I'm all alone in the world, I mean literally, not like when you break up with your boyfriend and your friends come over for ice cream and shooters, so I thought I'll see if I can't stir things up a bit, rile up the masses, toss a rock in the pond, a monkey into the wrench, but it was still coming up empty, so I pulled out my best joke, and all I got was this completely flat response and i'm thingking _there's_ a guy who need a cup of coffee, a little jolt, a bit of a goomph to kickstart the day, you know?


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## GrownUp (Apr 11, 2006)

I dutifully read all the way to the end of that and I still don't know who Ralph Bakshi is.


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## polymath (Apr 11, 2006)

He made the LOTR cartoon...you've never seen a more disconsolate kid as me when I saw that at the cinema. I mean, why not make King Kong and finish it as he gets captured too?
How could they release that unfinished BS? And then prey on the foolishness of a small child? Imagine my mum, who had to sit through it with me, anticipating a nice treat for her young son, and then it finishes and she's got a moany unhappy kid who should be saying 'Thanks mum! That was great!' Goddam eastern european cartoonists! And that goes for the people who made Murun Buchstansagar too.

Stupidity and greed reigns supreme, it seems.


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## Paige Turner (Apr 11, 2006)

polymath said:
			
		

> He made the LOTR cartoon...you've never seen a more disconsolate kid as me when I saw that at the cinema.



And how about that clever use of stock live-action film footage? No break in continuity there. Well done, Ralph.


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## Paige Turner (Apr 11, 2006)

Actually, if anybody is up for a laugh, this review http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm is quite an accurate and entertaining assessment of the antigenius that is Ralph Bakshi.


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## polymath (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, this is definitely the mock Ralph Bakshi thread then.
Tell us more about these Sixteen Deficiencies, Paige Turner. I'm all ears. He stole a little sliver of innocence and replaced it with a big wedge of "Ha ha! You sucker!"


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## Foxbat (Apr 11, 2006)

Just a friendly reminder folks - mocking a person can be a dangerous thing to do. Just make sure it doesn't turn into something that could be regarded as libel which will not be tolerated here. 

Keep it clean and remember that Ralph Bakshi will be entitled to his say if he were ever to pop in here. This kind of situation can be very embarrassing for the posters (believe me, I've seen it happen before).


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## Winters_Sorrow (Apr 11, 2006)

In fairness, Ralph just ran out of money from his backers. Hence the truncated film.
Peter Jackson actually 'nicks' quite a few Bakshi scenes from the cartoon.
I've yet to find an animated movie which doesn't have a few good points - who else likes Starchaser:The Legend of Orin?

Best sci-fi movie ever.... 

p.s. good to see another TWZ fan out there, Paige. I'm busy ploughing my way through the 1st series on DVD (which came with a few TWZ Companion book - sweet).


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## steve12553 (Apr 11, 2006)

Paige Turner said:
			
		

> ...but what happens is, I have a total Twilight Zone Burgess Meredith moment, because there's nobody else out there, but maybe that reference is a bit obscure...


 
Remember, Science Fiction readers thrive on the obscure. I saw that episode as a young child, possibly first run, In those days there was virtually no acceptable Science Fiction or Fantasy material. That episode predates Star Trek by a few years. Also when you judge Ralph Bakshi I think you have to balance it with "_Fritz the Cat_". Although not for everyone's taste, definitely original.


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## Jives (Apr 11, 2006)

Sorry, I can't read this right now, I have to go watch my special edition DVD of "Fire and Ice"


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## Paige Turner (Apr 11, 2006)

Jives said:
			
		

> Sorry, I can't read this right now, I have to go watch my special edition DVD of "Fire and Ice"



I actually PAID to see the first 45 minutes of that in the cinema. Actual money.


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## Shoegaze99 (Apr 12, 2006)

Not only was Bakshi a visonary animator in the 1970s, helping push animated films into serious, adult-oriented territory where previously in most cases it was a kids-only realm, he had the courage to tackle a huge project like Lord of the Rings. That he did as fine a job as he did with his limited resources is not a failure, it is an _achievement_.

Tolkien fans - and I have been a Tolkien fan for my entire life, one of the many annual LOTR readers - have been far, _far _too hard on Ralph Bakshi over the years, mocking a very respectable career simply because their cherished book - and _my _cherished book - was not brought to the screen in a manner satisfying to them. The man and his very solid career have become an object of ridicule because his film wasn't "good enough" for us.

And that, my friends, is a real shame.


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## Paige Turner (Apr 12, 2006)

Shoegaze99 said:
			
		

> The man and his very solid career have become an object of ridicule because his film wasn't "good enough" for us..



Oh, please. It was all junk. He's the Alan Smithee of animation. 

I was an animation supergeek as a kid, and I paid money to see *all* his crap. (except for sneaking into the drive-in to see Fritz the Cat.) He did have a distinctive "look," which is to say nobody ever thought it was worth ripping off, but the unappealing, sexist, poorly-drawn, incoherent stoner art that Bakshi produced can never be maligned enough. 

I am willing to try, though.

[edit] Wait a second. Ralph? Is that you?


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## Jives (Apr 12, 2006)

Paige Turner said:
			
		

> the unappealing, sexist, poorly-drawn, incoherent stoner art that Bakshi produced can never be maligned enough.



ROFLMAO!   Now, now, Paige.  How can you say that when he produced the epic and titillating....

WIZARDS!!!!!!!


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## Paige Turner (Apr 12, 2006)

Jives said:
			
		

> the epic and titillating.... WIZARDS!!!!!!!



Yes, it's absolutely dire. A parade of rubbish that spanned two decades. I was ten minutes into wizards, thinking "Should have taken _chemicals_  for this movie."


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## Shoegaze99 (Apr 12, 2006)

Paige Turner said:
			
		

> Oh, please. It was all junk.


That's a well thought out, highly compelling argument that is rather difficult to poke holes in. I admit, I'm afraid I can't muster up the intellect and insight necessary to offer a counter argument.

By all means, continue your whining. It's obvious I've stepped in over my head and do not wish to embarass myself further.


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## littlemissattitude (Apr 12, 2006)

This is getting just a little hostile, don't you think guys?  Probably best to just lock it now, before it gets completely out of hand.


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## ravenus (Apr 12, 2006)

Just a little hostile but certainly nowhere near locking a thread down. Come, a little spice is good 

But people might just want to check themselves in that their future posts stay clear of any personal remarks.

I haven't seen any of Ralph Bakshi's films myself although I have been interested since as pointed out earlier he was one of the first people to make adult (atleast juvenile adult) oriented movies using animation in a big way.

Perhaps some of his other movies can be commented on by people that have seen them.


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