# Need some insight into British cuisine



## Deke (Oct 4, 2021)

Fellow Chrons, in my novel my space captain is a British woman and they are having a captain's mess, where once a week she invites her various officers and a couple of enlisted personnel to a formal dinner and they toast the night away and enjoy a good meal.

My only issue is, as an American, I have no idea what you people eat. As a filthy colonial who despises the crown, my knowledge of your diet is limited to beans and toast, so I would appreciate some input from some of my UK neighbors across the pond as to what would be a proper English meal served at the captain's table.


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## Venusian Broon (Oct 4, 2021)

Could be lots of things. 

"Sunday Roast" was the first thing that sprang to mind. Here's a wikipedia link with probably far too much info on it, But you get the idea! 









						Sunday roast - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




But it could also be _Chicken Tikka Masala _which always seems to come near the top of favourite dinners in the UK. You can get a very nice fancy Indian nowadays. 

Or you could, perhaps, look up Queen Elizabeth II's eating habits, to see what the posh people might be eating: 









						What 7 things will Queen Elizabeth never eat or drink?
					

She likes Earl Grey in the morning, tuna sandwiches for lunch, and can’t resist a chocolate biscuit cake – but what common foods will Queen Elizabeth never permit to be served to her?




					www.scmp.com
				




(Strikes me as a bit bland.)


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## The Judge (Oct 4, 2021)

Sweetbreads.  Tripe and onions.  Toad in the hole.  Spotted dick.  Jam rolypoly.



Sorry, couldn't resist.  They're all real, but unlikely to be on many household menus nowadays and highly unlikely to appear at the captain's table unless she's really into retro food from the 1950s and earlier.

Anyhow, first off do remember that British is not synonymous with English, as otherwise you'll get some heated words from the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish members, all of whom will have their own specialities.

English-wise, the national dish used to be a roast -- beef for preference -- with a full accompaniment of roast potatoes (King Edwards are the best for that, cooked in dripping if possible) and veg such as carrots, parsnips and cabbage.  However, nowadays it's reputedly chicken tikka masala, a bastardised Indian curry that most people in India wouldn't recognise.

The English are also famous for pies of all kinds and we have a national pie competition -- game pies are traditional, with hot water crust pastry.  Also we have a lot of stews/casseroles, such as Lancashire hot pot.

Puddings -- I could write screeds on these, but eg Sussex pond pudding, bread and butter pudding, treacle sponge pudding would be both traditional and rib-sticking, but again these have fallen out of favour in the last 50 years.


EDIT:  VB got in ahead of me!!


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## M. Robert Gibson (Oct 4, 2021)

For a high-class menu at the captain's table you could have:
Canapes: Cheese cubes and pineapple chunks on a cocktail stick
Starter:  Prawn cocktail
Main: Chicken-in-the-basket/Beef Wellington
Afters: Black Forest Gateaux/Spotted Dick/Arctic Roll
Drinks: Babycham/Snowball

 For those of us that remember the 70s


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## Harpo (Oct 4, 2021)

Fish ‘n’ chips (emphatically NOT “fries”)


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## Mouse (Oct 4, 2021)

As someone who owns a chippy I agree with Harpo.  

See also: pizza, curry, spag bol, stir fry, pie. I dunno what a space captain would eat. Probably the same as everyone else.


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## reiver33 (Oct 4, 2021)

Take a pizza, fold it in half, and deep-fry. None of your vegetable oil either. Serve on a bed of spinach with a garnish of Worchester sauce. Pure class that would honour even the most select of gatherings.


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## The Judge (Oct 4, 2021)

Deke -- just in case it's not obvious, some of the above suggestions are made with tongue firmly in cheek, and those which are serious reflect what people in England are eating nowadays but aren't perhaps what a captain would offer to her crew if she's trying to impress them with examples of good old English cooking!

Though actually as you might have twigged from Mouse's suggestion of pizza etc as well as the chicken tikka masala VB and I mentioned, actually defining English cooking isn't that easy now.  In the last 70+ years what we routinely cook and eat has changed drastically and undoubtedly it will change further in the next 70 years.  There are plenty of adults in the UK who haven't even heard of eg plum duff or spotted dick let alone eaten them.  Instead much of what we eat nowadays is taken direct from other cultures -- not just the ingredients, which has always happened, but the recipes themselves, though not always with scrupulous authenticity.

In addition, what your captain will think of as British cuisine is going to depend on what she was brought up eating, which in turn is going to depend on her family background.  Someone with Indian ancestry is likely to have different memories of the food of her childhood when compared with someone whose family hail from Africa or the Caribbean, and the more there is a melting pot of cultures within the UK, the more so-called fusion food is going to appear.  And, as ever, class and family income are going to play a part -- the rich and upper middle class will have a different diet from someone living on the breadline on a council estate.

And all of that is before you factor in what might happen in the next 100+ years as to food production, meat consumption, fish farming etc.

So rather than ask us what we're eating now in the UK, it might be an idea if you pin down your captain's precise family background and her interests -- some people don't care about food and would just tell the chef to prepare whatever he/she likes; someone interested in history might want to have dinners based on specific eras (though hopefully not the 1970s...).  If we knew more about that and what developments you think have happened in food worldwide between now and when your story is set, we might be better able to help you.


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## Mon0Zer0 (Oct 4, 2021)

The Judge said:


> However, nowadays it's reputedly chicken tikka masala, a bastardised Indian curry that most people in India wouldn't recognise.



I had a few decent tikka masala's in India. I was quite surprised how not different Indian food was to the food back in Blighty. Much tastier, of course and a bit spicier, but overall not a huge amount of difference. 

It's not that difficult to get a fairly authentic dishes in the UK if you can find the right restaurants. Even more exotic foods a way away from our usual palettes - like "Stinky Tofu" or Durian - can be found quite easily in Borough Market. 

History of food in the UK is fascinating. Hampton Court Palace used to have traditional feasts which followed traditional English recipes from the 15th / 16th / 17th centuries and they were a world away from the bland meat and two veg for which the UK is known. Proper spicy foods and curries even. 

One thing you have to bear in mind with us Brits is (as Judge points out) that class and region dictates a lot of the kinds of food we grew up with. Nowadays the wealthier may be more interested in healthy food or socially responsible food (ethically sourced, vegan, cruelty free etc.) than in past times. If someone is trying to impress at a dinner party they may wish to go for more exotic or unfamiliar food as an experience - expensive or rare entrees, A5 wagyu beef prepared by an expert, Fugu, beluga caviar, all served with very expensive wines chosen to accompany the food. Heston Blumenthal is typical of this kind of gastronomic experience where he uses chemistry to create unfamiliar and exotic taste sensations. 

A high class "event" meal might look more like something from Gordon Ramsey's or Heston Blumenthal's "Fat Duck" restaurant, Core by Clare Smyth, etc.


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## psikeyhackr (Oct 4, 2021)

Shepherd's Pie is really good. Or at least I knew someone who made it really good.









						Shepherd's pie - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 5, 2021)

Pies are quite possible, done in a fancy manner. Also we do love roasts.
why not look at some of the British cookbooks for some steer. Someone like Nigel Slater is quite representative or you cant go wrong with a Delia Smith.


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## The Big Peat (Oct 5, 2021)

As pointed out, British food is a somewhat nebulous concept in this day and age. And probably always has been, but only grows more so.

However - if you want high end British food, of the sort they might serve at an officer's mess* at a good dinner, or at a high end British restaurant (The Ivy, Claridge's, St John), then you might consider Beef Wellington or Fish Pie. Or just simply dishes like the following:

Grilled Iberico pork cutlet - roasted apple, wilted greens and piccalilli
Roasted Creedy Carver duck breast - heritage carrots, burnt orange and pistachio

To steal from the Ivy's menu



*As the common barracks saying goes, the hardest course in the British Army is the chef's course.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

The Judge said:


> Deke -- just in case it's not obvious, some of the above suggestions are made with tongue firmly in cheek, and those which are serious reflect what people in England are eating nowadays but aren't perhaps what a captain would offer to her crew if she's trying to impress them with examples of good old English cooking!
> 
> Though actually as you might have twigged from Mouse's suggestion of pizza etc as well as the chicken tikka masala VB and I mentioned, actually defining English cooking isn't that easy now.  In the last 70+ years what we routinely cook and eat has changed drastically and undoubtedly it will change further in the next 70 years.  There are plenty of adults in the UK who haven't even heard of eg plum duff or spotted dick let alone eaten them.  Instead much of what we eat nowadays is taken direct from other cultures -- not just the ingredients, which has always happened, but the recipes themselves, though not always with scrupulous authenticity.
> 
> ...


She is from Wales, Cardiff to be exact, if that helps. As I said I am a culture less yank, a southerner to be exact.  My state mandated hatred for all things pertaining to the the British Crown demands I remain ignorant of your customs, though my novel requires me to understand Welsh traditional cooking.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

The Big Peat said:


> As pointed out, British food is a somewhat nebulous concept in this day and age. And probably always has been, but only grows more so.
> 
> However - if you want high end British food, of the sort they might serve at an officer's mess* at a good dinner, or at a high end British restaurant (The Ivy, Claridge's, St John), then you might consider Beef Wellington or Fish Pie. Or just simply dishes like the following:
> 
> ...


The roasted duck breast has caught my eye!


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Pies are quite possible, done in a fancy manner. Also we do love roasts.
> why not look at some of the British cookbooks for some steer. Someone like Nigel Slater is quite representative or you cant go wrong with a Delia Smith.


My only exposure to Nigel and Delia has been in the form of Uncle Roger videos on YouTube.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

I would like to use all of these suggestions of course, but I think that, while the classics hold sway there is certainly some room in the endless void of storytelling and thus captains messes I have planned to inject one or two odd but authentic British meals. So keep the wierd folded fried pizza posts coming plz!

(This certainly isn’t intended to embarrass or insult British national pride and the crown so I might instigate more colonial ferver, oh no, of course not *snickers*)


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## Foxbat (Oct 5, 2021)

You could make the captain of Scottish descent and have her give a Burns Supper (complete with address to the haggis).


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## Danny McG (Oct 5, 2021)

Big Mac meal followed by a caramel McFlurry


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

The Big Peat said:


> As pointed out, British food is a somewhat nebulous concept in this day and age. And probably always has been, but only grows more so.
> 
> However - if you want high end British food, of the sort they might serve at an officer's mess* at a good dinner, or at a high end British restaurant (The Ivy, Claridge's, St John), then you might consider Beef Wellington or Fish Pie. Or just simply dishes like the following:
> 
> ...


Four years ago I had fish ‘n’ chips in The Ivy.


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> Big Mac meal followed by a caramel McFlurry


That’s probably global, not British especially.


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## hitmouse (Oct 5, 2021)

Welsh cuisine is not particularly different from the rest of the uk. Trad Welsh cuisine is mainly quite humble:
Cawl - a type of lamb/ veg soup
Laverbread - a kind of seaweed snot fried up with oats and cockles for breakfast
Welsh rarebit aka cheese on toast
Welshcakes

There is some really special Welsh meat: Gower saltmarsh lamb, for example.

might be easier to co-opt the menus from some high-end Welsh restaurants:

Y Polyn
The Beach House
The Walnut Tree


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## HoopyFrood (Oct 5, 2021)

Deke said:


> beans and toast



That's beans _on_ toast, you tea-tipping upstart!


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## CupofJoe (Oct 5, 2021)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> For a high-class menu at the captain's table you could have:
> Canapes: Cheese cubes and pineapple chunks on a cocktail stick
> Starter:  Prawn cocktail
> Main: Chicken-in-the-basket/Beef Wellington
> ...


Add in an all-you-can-eat salad buffet and it looks like a great night out at a Schooner in!


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## Mouse (Oct 5, 2021)

Deke said:


> My state mandated hatred for all things pertaining to the the British Crown demands I remain ignorant of your customs...


You keep saying this and I'm wondering how you intend to write a Welsh character if you know nothing and hate everything? It's not just the food, it'll be the way your character speaks and everything - are you familiar with Welsh accents and words?


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## Ursa major (Oct 5, 2021)

Mouse said:


> are you familiar with Welsh accents and words?


Words both in the sense of how the Welsh use the English language and how they speak the Welsh language (for the increasing number of people who do).

However, I had a boss from Cardiff who very occasionally put on a thick Cardiff accent that, to my untrained ears, sounded not that different from a Liverpool one. Either he was pulling my leg (which can't be ruled out), or the similarity I noticed was a result of both Liverpool and Cardiff lying close to the language border between England and Wales and so they were mixed together in a similar way.

Note that I'm ignoring regional differences in Wales, mainly because I wouldn't be able to describe them. I'm also ignoring that many people in the UK change their accents deliberately: people here can be prone to reading a lot into another person's accent, not always to the speaker's benefit.


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## HareBrain (Oct 5, 2021)

Deke said:


> a filthy colonial who despises the crown


First two seasons were OK.



HoopyFrood said:


> That's beans _on_ toast, you tea-tipping upstart!


Amazed you were the first to notice that!

That might seem trivial, but I remember how irked I was by a single mistake in _Declare _by Tim Powers, which was set in the British intelligence** community during the 60s. "Math" was used instead of "maths", and it was enough to take me partially out of the story for the rest of the book.

**Any comment about this being a contradiction in terms will be removed as being political, in current circumstances.


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## HoopyFrood (Oct 5, 2021)

I was reading a book by someone from the US who had American characters going to Wales and one of the British folk used the phrase "are you taking a piss?" and I was all immediately, nope, can't take this seriously now.


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## Toby Frost (Oct 5, 2021)

It depends how comically British you want to make it. My instinct for Wales is to say roast lamb, but there are many options. Leeks are stereotypically Welsh as a side vegetable.









						Welsh cuisine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




However, some dishes like that are seen as for special occasions or big family dinners. "Normal" food in the UK is often quite like normal food in the US, although a few oddities remain. If you wanted something standard but distinctive, I'd go for fish and chips or chicken tikka masala. An Asian person (as in of Indian or Pakistani descent) once told me that having naan bread with curry is quite a British thing but I'm not sure.

The one thing I'd recommend is that someone drinks tea. Many British people drink pretty large quantities of this stuff, and it isn't linked to a particular time  of day (confusingly, "tea" is also sometimes used to mean a lighter, earlier evening meal). The important thing is that tea is made with boiling water and uses milk, not cream. 

Funny you mention the "math" thing, Harebrain. I read a book by a Canadian guy who'd lived in London for years, which was entirely convincing except that the characters gave directions in "blocks" rather than "streets". 

(Surely it's "having a piss" for urinating, "taking the piss" for making fun and "getting pissed" for getting drunk.)


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## Venusian Broon (Oct 5, 2021)

The Judge said:


> There are plenty of adults in the UK who haven't even heard of eg plum duff or spotted dick let alone eaten them.



I think I might have had two or three puddings or desserts in the past five years _in total_, and frankly not many more in the decades before that. I might have had a sweet biscuit in 2018, but I can't remember exactly when. I had switched at the start of the millenium to being more of an antipasta/starter person with dinner. savory>sweet IMHO. 

However I do think it was definitely the case that 20th Century UK was the land of stodgy, thick, sweet puddings, usually covered in thick custard/cream and I'm sure that tradition is still reasonably strong.  I argue, though, that it is probably not the thing to serve people golden syrup sponge or clotty dumpling if you wanted to do a posh meal.


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## HoopyFrood (Oct 5, 2021)

Toby Frost said:


> (Surely it's "having a piss" for urinating, "taking the piss" for making fun and "getting pissed" for getting drunk.)



As any good British person would know, but this was being used for 'making fun' and it was like mental nails on a chalkboard.


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## Aquilonian (Oct 5, 2021)

Cornwall has from the 19th century onwards produced a large diaspora especially in mining areas such as South Australia and Western USA. And there are plans for a spaceport near Newquay in Cornwall. So the Cornish Pasty is an obvious choice. For authenticity it should be made with short-crust pastry (not flakey pastry), and bit of low-quality meat, potatoes onions or maybe turnips, and plenty of black pepper.


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

Aquilonian said:


> Cornwall has from the 19th century onwards produced a large diaspora especially in mining areas such as South Australia and Western USA. And there are plans for a spaceport near Newquay in Cornwall. So the Cornish Pasty is an obvious choice. For authenticity it should be made with short-crust pastry (not flakey pastry), and bit of low-quality meat, potatoes onions or maybe turnips, and plenty of black pepper.


And sturdy enough that it can survive being dropped down a mine shaft.


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## Dan Jones (Oct 5, 2021)

@Deke Don't forget we're an island nation, so if your captain wanted to offer a taste of the UK then what better place to start than the sea? British seafood is among the world's best, from salmon, langoustines and lobster from Scotland, oysters from Mersea, eels from Northern Ireland, while bass and mackerel are delicious and plentiful pretty much everywhere. Meanwhile, the kings of fish are monkfish, John Dory and turbot, any of which would be fit for a captain's table.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

HoopyFrood said:


> That's beans _on_ toast, you tea-tipping upstart!


Apologies m’lord.




Mouse said:


> You keep saying this and I'm wondering how you intend to write a Welsh character if you know nothing and hate everything? It's not just the food, it'll be the way your character speaks and everything - are you familiar with Welsh accents and words?


No, sadly I am not.

However society is rather homogeneous in most every space opera, and the crew of my ship is Terran, meaning they aren’t just going to be a bunch of Americans. I have a Nigerian XO, German helmsman, Chinese sensor tech, etc. 

I don’t really bring up anyone’s national origins unless it’s to insert a fun cultural tidbit like the captains mess or some such, and when I do I will go online and crowd source it.




Dan Jones said:


> @Deke Don't forget we're an island nation, so if your captain wanted to offer a taste of the UK then what better place to start than the sea? British seafood is among the world's best, from salmon, langoustines and lobster from Scotland, oysters from Mersea, eels from Northern Ireland, while bass and mackerel are delicious and plentiful pretty much everywhere. Meanwhile, the kings of fish are monkfish, John Dory and turbot, any of which would be fit for a captain's table.



Good point. I think I’ll try to keep it all simple, lamb, monkfish, beef Wellington etc. Stuff that any reader is going to recognize without too much trouble while still carrying the theme of the whole tradition being rooted in British culture.

I would like to throw something odd in that could just be a fun learning experience, something that only someone from Wales would really recognize as a local favorite, food does evolve and we are talking about a book set four hundredish years in the future, but that doesn’t mean I can’t toss in some stuff here and there, food, music, what have you. And might as well teach my reader some obscure tidbit about traditional Welsh cooking while I’m at it.


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## Bagpuss (Oct 5, 2021)

if it helps here is a menu for what they serve on British submarines.


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## Dan Jones (Oct 5, 2021)

That's brilliant!


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## HareBrain (Oct 5, 2021)

Toby Frost said:


> if it helps here is a menu for what they serve on British submarines.


"Ye Old Chicken Pie"

Good to see they're not chucking stuff out before its use-by date.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

Bagpuss said:


> if it helps here is a menu for what they serve on British submarines.


Good point. A spaceship is basically just a fancy submarine.


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## Abernovo (Oct 5, 2021)

Bagpuss said:


> if it helps here is a menu for what they serve on British submarines.


Good old franks 'n' rav! I also like the Chef's Pasta Bake of the Day, aka, better put these in, before they go off, and this is the left over meat from yesterday's roast, etc. And, it will taste great!

If you're looking for a good, special dessert, for the Wardroom, maybe go with cranachan: raspberries, oats, cream and whisky, mixed gently. Bit expensive, so only for senior officers, invited guests, or a special treat. You can find the recipe online.


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

Abernovo said:


> If you're looking for a good, special dessert, for the Wardroom, maybe go with cranachan: raspberries, oats, cream and whisky, mixed gently. Bit expensive, so only for senior officers, invited guests, or a special treat. You can find the recipe online.



Thanks I’ll check it out.


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## Danny McG (Oct 5, 2021)

Harpo said:


> That’s probably global, not British especially.


I'm especially British and I ate it two days ago


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

You know what I mean though. Somebody wants a British dish, not just something eaten by people everywhere including Britain


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## Deke (Oct 5, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> I'm especially British and I ate it two days ago


I’m sorry that my nation exported McDonalds of all things and you can’t enjoy the deliciousness of proper American cuisine and have some Whatburger goodness in your life. Those people can cook up a delicious cheeseburger.


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## Dave (Oct 5, 2021)

Venusian Broon said:


> I do think it was definitely the case that 20th Century UK was the land of stodgy, thick, sweet puddings, usually covered in thick custard/cream and I'm sure that tradition is still reasonably strong.


That is certainly exactly how British food was once seen, and it was true, largely as a result of things such as urban poverty and second world war rationing. Most meals were "Meat and two veg" where one of the vegetables was always potatoes. Or, as in _Shirley Valentine_ where there is a set dinner for each day of the week -  "I like chips and egg ..on a TUESDAY! – today is THURSDAY!… Where’s me steak?!”

British food has changed much since the 1980's and '90's but a typical menu would still take the best elements of traditional stews, roasts, pies and puddings and re-invent them or re-interpret them often with an element of fusion.

There are also huge numbers of vegetarians and vegans today. Pasta, rice and couscous more common than chips and mash.

Before McDonald's (or Wimpy) Hamburgers were eaten in the UK without a bun. It's a New York idea to take a German meat patty and put it inside a bun.


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

Deke said:


> Those people can cook up a delicious cheeseburger.


If they can they should. Why don’t they?


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## Rodders (Oct 5, 2021)

Apple Crumble is my favourite. 

What about the great British fry up?


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## chrispenycate (Oct 5, 2021)

Once a week, you say? That just about reduces you to frozen, dried or canned ingredients, plus whatever you can grow aboard. Meat is a problem - roast beef of old England is not very practical, particularly not for finishing  a butchery, and guinea-pig or goat is short on the 'traditional' label.

Algae tanks couldbe stocked with fresh water fish and crusacians, or possibly salt water ecologies for the cod and chips (If you can't rase potatoes on interstellar flights you might as well go for microwaved frozen TV dinners - short on the traditional, but you can use real china and silverware.

After forty years living in Switzerland Iget through a lot of sea fish (fresh, of course)  - not that there's anything wrong with trout, perch or omble chevalier, but the ocean offers far more variety.

But the Empire upon which the sun never set (until it did) has been ofering a variety of different cultural flavours and textures, which I take full profit of, and make a nice alternative to the 'vegetables boiled grey, and meat incinerated tradition of the next to last couple of centuries, and waves of refugees/immigrants have sought posts in the culinary enterprises have reduced the population of those who refuse all foreign savours.

I'll stand up for traditional English breakfast, though.


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## Danny McG (Oct 5, 2021)

Harpo said:


> You know what I mean though. Somebody wants a British dish, not just something eaten by people everywhere including Britain
> 
> Yay, Another bite!


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## M. Robert Gibson (Oct 5, 2021)

Deke said:


> I would like to throw something odd in that could just be a fun learning experience, something that only someone from Wales would really recognize as a local favorite, food does evolve and we are talking about a book set four hundredish years in the future, but that doesn’t mean I can’t toss in some stuff here and there, food, music, what have you. And might as well teach my reader some obscure tidbit about traditional Welsh cooking while I’m at it.


My suggestion would be for laverbread

This site might help with a few more suggestions








						Laverbread
					

Laverbread Laver is a fine seaweed collected for consumption along the Welsh coastline. Welsh laverbread or 'bara lawr' has nothing to do with bread and




					www.welshfoodanddrink.wales


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## Valtharius (Oct 5, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> I'm especially British and I ate it two days ago


I was under the impression that the Big Mac was Scotland's national dish.


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

Valtharius said:


> I was under the impression that the Big Mac was Scotland's national dish.


Maybe a long way behind and below haggis neeps and tatties, bridies, stovies, tablet, white pudding, smoked kippers, et cetera


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## Danny McG (Oct 5, 2021)

Harpo said:


> Maybe a long way behind and below haggis neeps and tatties, bridies, stovies, tablet, white pudding, smoked kippers, et cetera


I'd happily scoff kippers and tablet but the rest isn't really food is it?

And yes, I've sampled it at times, living only thirty odd miles from the bagpipe strangling border


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## Harpo (Oct 5, 2021)

*not biting this time*


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## Montero (Oct 5, 2021)

And drink with the meal - wine not beer if going posh. (And if alcohol allowed). Really posh, start with a sherry - all milling round talking while sipping. Dry sherry is considered posher than sweet for some reason - or it is vulgar or girlie to drink anything too sweet - a "ladies drink". Then a different wine with each course, and passing the port round the table at the end. (I think you pass it to the left - very important to get the direction right.)
So not beer. Not fizzy drinks.
If no alcohol then water in jugs (still water) with maybe a couple of slices of lemon (if any available) floating in it, and ice cubes. Help yourself into glasses. Just might have the water poured by the mess stewards.
For a proper dinner, no tea. Wine, water, coffee, but not tea. (Which annoys me, I prefer tea.)
At drinks and nibbles then it tends to be white wine, red wine and fruit juice for anyone driving.


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## Danny McG (Oct 6, 2021)

Cheese and pineapple hedgehog.


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## Montero (Oct 6, 2021)

@Danny McG Yeah, yeah, bleh. 

And why has no-one yet mentioned marmite? Ah, yes, because it's a dinner party.

Though that would be useful for general colour - marmite on toast for breakfast upsetting other people.







Or vegemite if you are Australian. Could have a marmite vegemite disagreement - with everyone else in the room baffled.


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## Dave (Oct 6, 2021)

Wouldn't *Bovril ** be even more British. Given what Chris just said about the likelihood of keeping "Cows in Space", jars of beef flavoured extract might be exactly what people would eat to remind them of home. I can't stand the stuff personally. I much prefer Marmite.

* Bovril invented by John Lawson Johnston. His house is near me and known colloquially as Bovril Castle.


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## CupofJoe (Oct 6, 2021)

Dave said:


> Wouldn't *Bovril ** be even more British. Given what Chris just said about the likelihood of keeping "Cows in Space", jars of beef flavoured extract might be exactly what people would eat to remind them of home. I can't stand the stuff personally. I much prefer Marmite.
> 
> * Bovril invented by John Lawson Johnston. His house is near me and known colloquially as Bovril Castle.
> 
> View attachment 82662


and it's a drink too. Just add boiling water.
There is that line in *In Which We Serve*... "It's just Bovril - heavily laced with sherry."
I've never made it but I bet it tastes like gravy.


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## Provincial (Oct 6, 2021)

A few visitors from abroad have told me that battered cod and chips is the dish they wanted to try the most because that’s the one they associate with the UK, and I think it’s a universal favourite up and down the island.

I have Welsh cousins.  The savoury food they think is both delicious and very Welsh, and so have forced on me, has not been to my taste.  Their cakes and deserts are smashing though!  Perhaps your captain rejects the savoury part of their Welsh heritage…?

Not Entirely Serious, but Definitely Ethnic in Places, Menu:

nibbles with drinks - haggis slices, black pudding, saveloy slices, fried whole mushrooms and laverbread served up individually on very thin triangles of toast

starter - eggs benedict

fish course - starry-gazy pie (a bizarre but eye catching dish which has the heads (and sometimes the tails) of whole fish sticking out through the crust, hence the name - I’m told it tastes disgusting)

main course - honey-glazed ham or roast chicken or beef Wellington, with gravy, roast potatoes, peas, mashed neeps, carrots, sprouts and baked beans

desert - vanilla ice cream with a liqueur of your choice drizzled over the top

cheeses - a selection of savoury biscuits and cheeses such as Stilton, Cheddar, Red Leicester and Sage Derby

cake - Bara Brith, Barmbrack, Dundee Cake and Victoria Sponge


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## AnyaKimlin (Oct 6, 2021)

Could just as likely be a really good curry as a roast.  I often do a posh version of chicken, chip and curry sauce for a fancy meal..


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## Danny McG (Oct 6, 2021)

Regional food guides; we explore our glorious gastronomic heritage in eight regions
					

For a small nation, the topography of Britain is immensely varied. This fertile land yields the ingredients that have influenced our gastronomic heritage. From the orchards of the South East to the lochs of Scotland, each region harvests its own food and creates its own dishes.




					www.dairydiary.co.uk


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## Montero (Oct 6, 2021)

And to show people's nationality, I do think the special treat you'd have stashed in your locker is another way of showing it, rather than just a special meal.
So, marmite obviously. And then brain runs out. Erm, oreos?

Oh and the differences in terminology on food like that favourite of biscuits. US biscuits and UK biscuits being different. And Italy having biscotti (means twice cooked) - UK and Italian biscuits having a lot more in common.
Phrases like pop, soda, water with gas, still, flat, sparkling etc.

Looking for some of the old threads comparing the varieties of English, from UK, NZ, Canada, Australia, US etc might be useful to you. Phrases about sandals for example, different sorts of shoes, soccer vs football.

And btw Rugby the game is pretty big in Wales - is my impression as an English person. Ditto NZ - the All Blacks are a seriously competitive team.

Cricket for England, NZ, Australia, West Indies, Pakistan and India and wherever else it pops up. Not a lot of interest in baseball in the UK, though school kids play a game call "rounders" which is similar but is generally a fun knock-about get some exercise rather than a competitive adult sport.

So look for the things that cross nationalities both for what we like and what we don't like.


Suggestions that don't entirely work on a space ship

Pork pie - that's an English classic. Summer Saturday lunch - pork pie, lettuce, tomato, cucumber and a glass of cider. Maybe with a little olive oil dribbled on the lettuce if you are pushing the boat out.
Curd tart for a pudding. (needs milk)
Bakewell Tart.
Jaffa Cakes - they are just weird in my opinion but they are very English. (Tend to go stale quite fast.)


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## Dave (Oct 6, 2021)

Montero said:


> Suggestions that don't entirely work on a space ship
> 
> Pork pie - that's an English classic. Summer Saturday lunch - pork pie, lettuce, tomato, cucumber and a glass of cider. Maybe with a little olive oil dribbled on the lettuce if you are pushing the boat out.
> Curd tart for a pudding. (needs milk)
> ...



In regards to eating pastries aboard a spaceship. I assume that they will develop some way of cleaning up crumbs. I haven't looked into this before, but how do they remove dust (which is basically dead skin cells), hair, and such? A few days aboard a spaceship in one thing, but months or years is a totally different prospect.


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## Provincial (Oct 6, 2021)

Montero said:


> Jaffa Cakes - they are just weird in my opinion but they are very English. (Tend to go stale quite fast.)


In my house, Jaffa Cakes don’t get a chance to go stale.

Rugby - there are two main types I believe, Rugby League and Rugby Union, which can partly be distinguished between as amateur and professional.  They are both taken very seriously and there can be a great deal of bad blood between the two groups.  I don’t know which one is favoured in Wales, but it could provide a bit of colour in a dinner conversation.


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## alexvss (Oct 6, 2021)

People really like this thread!  

Just to leave my two cents: I have the feeling that, in the UK, breakfast is the most important meal; whereas, in the US is dinner; and, in Latin America, that'd be lunch. When people travel to the UK and ask for a "full British breakfast" they're like, "Do you want to kill me with so much food in the morning?"
I could just be saying a lot of gabage but, that's what I gathered from (a very distant) observation.

I also like the fact that someone pointed out that they're aboard a spaceship, so you'll have to justify them eating such a meal.


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## Dan Jones (Oct 6, 2021)

Dave said:


> dust (which is basically dead skin cells)


It's a myth! Only a vanishingly small percentage of dust is made up of human skin cells, and is much more likely to be made up of soil, sand, pollen, soot, brick dust, concrete dust, carpet fibres, animal fur cells, bits of dead insects and spiders, tiny bits of plastics, crumbs of food, dirt, boats, coats and stoats.


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## HareBrain (Oct 6, 2021)

Provincial said:


> eggs benedict


Or eggs benedictine, which is monkfish roe.


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## Dave (Oct 6, 2021)

Dan Jones said:


> is much more likely to be made up of soil, sand, pollen, soot, brick dust, concrete dust, carpet fibres, animal fur cells, bits of dead insects and spiders, tiny bits of plastics, crumbs of food, dirt, boats, coats and stoats.


That's the kind of house where you wipe your feet on your way out!


HareBrain said:


> Or eggs benedictine


Which has nothing to do with egg laying monks!


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## thaddeus6th (Oct 6, 2021)

If your jaffa cakes are going stale then you need a better tin.


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## Montero (Oct 6, 2021)

alexvss said:


> Just to leave my two cents: I have the feeling that, in the UK, breakfast is the most important meal; whereas, in the US is dinner; and, in Latin America, that'd be lunch. When people travel to the UK and ask for a "full British breakfast" they're like, "Do you want to kill me with so much food in the morning?"
> I could just be saying a lot of gabage but, that's what I gathered from (a very distant) observation.


There is what hotels do, and then there is what people do. I think some people do have a Full English. Many don't/

Until I was 11, we did have a cooked breakfast every morning - usually bacon, eggs and toast, sometimes with mushrooms or tomatoes (never baked beans in our household) or we had porridge. I think some days we had cereal before the fried breakfast but not totally sure now. Maybe it was cereal on weekends.
Then father retired and mother announced that if he wanted a cooked breakfast, he was cooking it. So we shifted to cereal, followed by toast and marmalade. Kippers also dropped off the menu. They had often been a Friday night supper option and I really liked kippers, with a slice of brown bread and butter and a cup of tea. However mother said given how hard it was to get the smell of kippers out of the frying pan or the grill, if father wanted kippers then he could cook them and clean up afterwards. We tended to have them once or twice a year, when the urge for kippers overwhelmed the memory of the clean up.
These days breakfast for us is home made museli. It used to be porridge, but now we can't be bothered.

Hotel breakfasts can be bonkers and also include the Continental breakfast - fruit, croissant, Danish pastries. Some hotels let you have everything.

Though there was an old saying
Breakfast like a king
Lunch like a lord
Sup like a pauper.

Or in other words fill up in the morning, don't over eat at night. But dinner parties are in the evening.......


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## Aquilonian (Oct 6, 2021)

Harpo said:


> And sturdy enough that it can survive being dropped down a mine shaft.


Yes I forgot to mention that the pasty is designed to be eaten in mines with no hand-washing facilities. You hold it by the hard pastry tabs at each end. No utensils are required to eat a pasty, which would reduce the weight of the spaceship. Best of all, the contents are completely enclosed within the pastry shell, so no risk of contents floating around in zero-gravity conditions.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 6, 2021)

Gazpacho soup.


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 6, 2021)

On a more serious note though, would there really be a formal dinner every week? Perhaps if there were a special guest or special occasion, but it would seem too much of a faff to have to dress up and have to arrange a special meal every week.

Perhaps an informal gathering of captain and officers and select crew with a curry or a chilli night? Or perhaps having a meal based on the produce of the last world they visited?


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## Tirellan (Oct 6, 2021)

I still do the sausages, bacon, eggs, black pudding, toast breakfast (at lunch time) a couple of times a week.


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## hitmouse (Oct 6, 2021)

Provincial said:


> In my house, Jaffa Cakes don’t get a chance to go stale.
> 
> Rugby - there are two main types I believe, Rugby League and Rugby Union, which can partly be distinguished between as amateur and professional.  They are both taken very seriously and there can be a great deal of bad blood between the two groups.  I don’t know which one is favoured in Wales, but it could provide a bit of colour in a dinner conversation.


Both rugby league and rugby union are professional. Rugby union ( played in Wales, the Six Nations, and the Rugby World Cup) was amateur until about 25 years ago. Although there are similarities, the two games are really quite different.
The bad blood thing is historic. Players that defected from union to league ( to get a salary, basically) were not allowed back into union until the mid 1990s. The most famous example is probably Jonathan Davies.


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## Ray Zdybrow (Oct 7, 2021)

Harpo said:


> Maybe a long way behind and below haggis neeps and tatties, bridies, stovies, tablet, white pudding, smoked kippers, et cetera


"Sister Mary Cuthbert has brought in some of her delicious tablet", an announcement that engendered feelings of uncertainty or even dread in primary school (Embra in the 70s).


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## Ray Zdybrow (Oct 7, 2021)

Dave said:


> In regards to eating pastries aboard a spaceship. I assume that they will develop some way of cleaning up crumbs. I haven't looked into this before, but how do they remove dust (which is basically dead skin cells), hair, and such? A few days aboard a spaceship in one thing, but months or years is a totally different prospect.


Roomba?


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## Ray Zdybrow (Oct 7, 2021)

Pizza or supermarket sandwiches.
Seriously though, the best "typical and traditional" British meals - ie, a roast dinner or a fry-up breakfast - couldn't be served in that situation because they're only good made in the home, they don't avail themselves to catering (caff aficionadoes, feel free to disagree). I reckon.


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## CupofJoe (Oct 7, 2021)

Ray Zdybrow said:


> Pizza or supermarket sandwiches.
> Seriously though, the best "typical and traditional" British meals - ie, a roast dinner or a fry-up breakfast - couldn't be served in that situation because they're only good made in the home, they don't avail themselves to catering (caff aficionadoes, feel free to disagree). I reckon.


I would have to disagree. The meals would be made differently, but I've been to several Army and RAF messes and been served fantastic Roast dinners and Breakfasts that were to die.*** These were the ordinary daily meals.
And there is at least one café in Belfast that forever has a place in my heart for its "full [definitely not] English" breakfast on a cold and wet morning waiting for the ferry. I can taste the bacon and sausages to this day!
As for peculiarly British [or maybe just English] Food... *Kedgeree*. It is an Anglo-Indian dish that is sort of a cross between a risotto and a Biryani, made with rice, hard boiled eggs and smoked fish [we always used Haddock but I've seen it made with Salmon and Cod].
*** Or in some cases kill you with the cholesterol.


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## Provincial (Oct 7, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Both rugby league and rugby union are professional. Rugby union ( played in Wales, the Six Nations, and the Rugby World Cup) was amateur until about 25 years ago. Although there are similarities, the two games are really quite different.
> The bad blood thing is historic. Players that defected from union to league ( to get a salary, basically) were not allowed back into union until the mid 1990s. The most famous example is probably Jonathan Davies.


Thanks.  Not surprised to learn my knowledge was out of date!


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## Provincial (Oct 7, 2021)

The main problem with this thread is it presupposes that national dishes would be considered fine dining.  They are generally the food of poverty, delicious dishes created under desperate conditions with whatever cheap ingredients were available to the kind of people who could never afford to eat in an expensive restaurant.  When a traditional dish comes anywhere near a posh plate, it has generally been pimped beyond recognition. TV chefs with posh restaurant chains occasionally feature conventional traditional dishes, but I suspect it is only to signal that they are unconventional rebels, forces to be reckoned with.

Your best bet, and maybe the easiest option, might be to pick a particular traditional dish and make it the dish your captain always has served at special meals because it is a particular favourite from their childhood.  Or perhaps in order to torture their guests.


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## Montero (Oct 7, 2021)

I once thought of a meal for torturing guests, especially if they are wearing pale colours.
Corn on the cob
Spaghetti bolognaise
Stewed whole damsons with custard
If you walk clean out of that meal, you must be teflon coated. And I haven't yet found an elegant way to spit out the damson stones.


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## Danny McG (Oct 7, 2021)

If you read* the Mote in God's eye* it details how The Admiral has a typical Russian banquet aboard his flagship, however it's clear that they're winging it and not really sure  what their ancestors ate.

He even has his space marines doing their version of Cossack dancing, again they're guesstimating how this was done.

Can you not do the same? Have them eating roast beef that's been braised in tea etc?
With them fondly imagining it's traditional - and wondering at their ancestors strange taste buds


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## Tirellan (Oct 7, 2021)

Ray Zdybrow said:


> Pizza or supermarket sandwiches.
> Seriously though, the best "typical and traditional" British meals - ie, a roast dinner or a fry-up breakfast - couldn't be served in that situation because they're only good made in the home, they don't avail themselves to catering (caff aficionadoes, feel free to disagree). I reckon.


You have never been to Simpsons in the Strand - best roast beef in the world.


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## Fiberglass Cyborg (Oct 10, 2021)

If you want /really/ swanky cooking in Britain, it'll be, well, French. Haute cuisine is the standard for moneyed foodies, and French chefs have un certain cachet here even if they're just frying chips in the Rose and Crown. 

(Ironically, my parents live in France and they say most of their neighbours are awful cooks.)


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## Dave (Oct 10, 2021)

Is that still true? It was true in the 1960's and 1970's. It was possibly true in the '80's and '90's. Then there was a kind of revolution in British restaurants and hotels. I'm no expert on this and could be wrong, but I've heard that is no longer true anymore. If you could back your statement up with some evidence then I'll accede. Anyway, you be hard pressed to find any French chefs in the UK at the moment, or any chefs at all really.


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## hitmouse (Oct 10, 2021)

Fiberglass Cyborg said:


> If you want /really/ swanky cooking in Britain, it'll be, well, French. Haute cuisine is the standard for moneyed foodies, and French chefs have un certain cachet here even if they're just frying chips in the Rose and Crown.
> 
> Absolute nonsense.


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## Ray Zdybrow (Jun 13, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Welsh cuisine is not particularly different from the rest of the uk. Trad Welsh cuisine is mainly quite humble:
> Cawl - a type of lamb/ veg soup
> Laverbread - a kind of seaweed snot fried up with oats and cockles for breakfast
> Welsh rarebit aka cheese on toast
> ...


How about a butty jam?


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## Ray Zdybrow (Jun 14, 2022)

"battered cod and chips - I think it’s a universal favourite up and down the island"
Not in Grimsby, where haddock reigns supreme and cod is only fit for "cats and Yorkies". 
I left Gy many years ago so things MAY have changed...


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## Bramandin (Jun 14, 2022)

Ray Zdybrow said:


> How about a butty jam?



Thread necromancy?


----------



## Ray Zdybrow (Jun 14, 2022)

Bramandin said:


> Thread necromancy?


Feeling HUNGRY!


----------



## psikeyhackr (Jun 14, 2022)

Bramandin said:


> Thread necromancy?


Doesn't the thread have to be dead for 3 years to require that?


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## Bramandin (Jun 14, 2022)

psikeyhackr said:


> Doesn't the thread have to be dead for 3 years to require that?



I'm not sure.  I might have made a mistake.


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## Danny McG (Jun 14, 2022)

paranoid marvin said:


> Gazpacho soup.


Ah yes, the Red Dwarf running joke


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## Pyan (Jun 14, 2022)

Bramandin said:


> I'm not sure.  I might have made a mistake.


Don't worry about it, @Bramandin - he's having you on. There's no limit (time-wise or in number) to the resurrection of old threads. 
We (the Mods) may decide that the thread is incompatible with the site as it is today, or that the changes in society over the 20 years the site has been running make the content of the thread to be unacceptable - in this sort of case, we may permanently close the thread, but generally speaking people are free to indulge in 'thread necromancy' as they so desire.


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## hitmouse (Jun 14, 2022)

Ray Zdybrow said:


> How about a butty jam?


In some specialist nightclubs, perhaps.


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 14, 2022)

Pyan said:


> Don't worry about it, @Bramandin - he's having you on.



How dare you!

[Stamps right foot]

[Does it again]

[Figures out it is useless on internet]


----------



## Harpo (Jun 14, 2022)

Bramandin said:


> Thread necromancy?


After a gap of only eight months? Nah, wait till you see what BAYLOR revives, and me too sometimes.

This forum is twenty years old, eight months is nowt


Edit:
Oh, the topic has been covered. Ignore me.


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 14, 2022)

Had written a long answer from the perspective of a Chef working in South Wales for over 20 years then realised this is an old thread and now I and just hungry for some Cawl.


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## Stomalomalus (Jun 14, 2022)

Wales makes me think of Lamb. Roast lamb with mint sauce.


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 14, 2022)

Stomalomalus said:


> Wales makes me think of Lamb. Roast lamb with mint sauce.



And gangs of youths roaming the streets all singing in close harmony.


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## Stomalomalus (Jun 14, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> And gangs of youths roaming the streets all singing in close harmony.


And rugby. And confusing everybody by talking about those bloody gogs. Anyone north of Llanelli, I'll have you know.


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## Danny McG (Jun 14, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> And gangs of youths roaming the streets all singing in close harmony.


As part of my apprenticeship in the 1970s I had to go to an NCB training centre near Haydock horseracing track for a few weeks every year.
Myself and workmates were usually amongst the earliest in the mornings.

So we'd hang around outside for a while as the other lads turned up. every day a coach arrived from the Welsh collieries and, as it neared the gates, you could hear them all singing.

I always thought then, and still do, that it was a wind-up by them.
"Look Huw, we are at the centre isn't it.
 Time to start singing, boyos"


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 14, 2022)

Danny McG said:


> As part of my apprenticeship in the 1970s I had to go to an NCB training centre near Haydock horseracing track for a few weeks every year.
> Myself and workmates were usually amongst the earliest in the mornings.
> 
> So we'd hang around outside for a while as the other lads turned up. every day a coach arrived from the Welsh collieries and, as it neared the gates, you could hear them all singing.
> ...



Surprisingly not a windup it was generally a thing that would occur on any day trip, rugby trip or get together when more that 3 or 4 welshmen had 10 minutes to spare,  In villages most were miners and most were in the miners choirs but as the colliery closed the choirs slowly disbanded and the habit kind of fell to the wayside

Put us in a Rugby match though and this is the result  ...... we are not the land of song for nothing


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## Harpo (Jun 14, 2022)

....anyway, about the cuisine?


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## Stomalomalus (Jun 14, 2022)

Harpo said:


> ....anyway, about the cuisine?


Welsh rarebit, obviously. A slice of glammed up cheese on toast is always nice.


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## Montero (Jun 14, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> Surprisingly not a windup it was generally a thing that would occur on any day trip, rugby trip or get together when more that 3 or 4 welshmen had 10 minutes to spare,  In villages most were miners and most were in the miners choirs but as the colliery closed the choirs slowly disbanded and the habit kind of fell to the wayside
> 
> Put us in a Rugby match though and this is the result  ...... we are not the land of song for nothing


A lot of years back I had singing lessons, and my teacher said that my middle class southern English accent was the worst for learning to sing, as it is a lot in the back of the throat and very flat so doesn't resonate. Whereas the Welsh accent places the voice very much just behind the lips, and it has good resonance, which is why a lot of Welsh are good singers, because they are already in the habit of placing their voice in the right part of the mouth for a good round sound.


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## Venusian Broon (Jun 14, 2022)

Harpo said:


> ....anyway, about the cuisine?


The Welsh are nice, but I couldn't finish off a whole one.


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## Harpo (Jun 14, 2022)

Welsh cakes are superb









						Welsh Cakes Recipe
					

This traditional and authentic Welsh cakes recipe is one of the best cakes to come out of Wales. Learn how to make them at home with our easy to follow recipe.




					www.greatbritishchefs.com


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 14, 2022)

Ok so back on cuisine I will post what I wrote before noticing this was resurrected thread 


I was born and raised in the Wales in the Swansea Valley and until a decade ago I was a Chef in Neath and that's just about 40 miles from Cardiff where you are placing your Captain. Currently the area your Captain is from is one of the most culturally food diverse places I have ever worked there is a bit of everything there.

Couple of questions I may have missed is did your Captain come from money or not and how old are they?

Me, well I was the youngest of 5 child and was born in the late 60's my Dad was a miner and passed away when I was 10 and my mum struggled financially for years after, couple that with living through the blackouts the miners strike mass unemployment through the 80's the food on our table was very basic and traditional and Traditional food in Wales was just an easy way of saying meals born out of poverty, cheap cuts and cheap ways to make them go further.

my mum always cooked big batches of stuff on fridays (baking day in our house) and that would see us through till midweek hearty filling things like  shepherds Pies, Cawl, Oggies which are a type of meat filled Cornish pasties (Normally Lamb) but covered in breadcrumb not pastry, very little fish as that was to expensive.

a meal to tide you over till Dinner (the evening not afternoon meal) was Bara,Te which was hot Tea with no milk lots of sugar and lumps of Cheedar cheese and thick buttered bread all mixed together like a stew and eaten with a spoon this was a a very traditional local meal for Miners who would put their sandwich into the tea to eat so as to not get coal dust on the food.

I became a student Chef at Neath college in 86 and quickly learnt that culinary school at the time only taught French cooking and that was it, after college started working at a place called the Geranium in the Swansea valley and it was instantly better versions of what I ate as a child, over the next couple of decades I watched food change and improve as chefs slowly became rockstars in their own right, people became more affluent and other cultures invaded local cooking, Curried Lamb Cawl!!, I never thought I would see it but there it was on the menu and selling by the pot full.

18 years and a serious Motorbike crash and I was out of the game

the best advice for your Captains table is find traditional meals and then refine them

Things like ..... (Google the recipes you will find many many many versions)

Caerphilly Welsh Cake Canapés for people on arrival

Smoked Mackerel Pate ... we had Mackerel or Haddock only when we could afford it as they were the cheap cuts back then) or a bowl of Mussles would be acceptable

Small bowl of refined leek soup for the soup course

Palette cleanser like a Damson or Wimberry Sorbet

Welsh Salt Marsh Lamb cutlets with traditional welsh veg (leeks are a must)

dessert ...tough one as to a dish the traditional welsh desert is a heavy thing but a version of Picau ar y Maen (cake on a stone) which is just a small fruit cake (light thin scone) baked on a large stone and serve with cream and some berry compote, we did also cook pancakes (both types) on a bakestone so you could have a version of that

someone born less that 10 houses away from me will tell you that all this is wrong, Hell my sister in the next room would start a fight over it, Each of us ferocious in our belief that the way we do it is correct and the way you do it is not "how my Mamgu did it"


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 15, 2022)

I'll have to try to find this:









						Beef Shepherd's Pie
					

Enjoy an easy hearty meal with a beef frozen shepherd's pie from Marie Callender's. Made with beef, carrots, and corn in gravy topped with mashed pota




					www.mariecallendersmeals.com
				




It doesn't have very good ratings.


----------



## Bramandin (Jun 15, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> Couple of questions I may have missed is did your Captain come from money or not and how old are they?



Binging it back to the original subject...


Deke said:


> Fellow Chrons, in my novel my space captain is a British woman and they are having a captain's mess, where once a week she invites her various officers and a couple of enlisted personnel to a formal dinner and they toast the night away and enjoy a good meal.
> 
> My only issue is, as an American, I have no idea what you people eat. As a filthy colonial who despises the crown, my knowledge of your diet is limited to beans and toast, so I would appreciate some input from some of my UK neighbors across the pond as to what would be a proper English meal served at the captain's table.



My ex is the son of ex-pats and all three boys came back here.  (Weep for the youngest, I left him in the care of my mom and my aunts for a week before college and I'm still trying to construct an understanding of the culture-shock that he must have experienced.)


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## Ursa major (Jun 15, 2022)

Pyan said:


> but generally speaking people are free to indulge in 'thread necromancy' as they so desire


Do you think we ought to mention that every old thread raised from the dead automatically chops a few days off the necromancer's life...?


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## psikeyhackr (Jun 15, 2022)

Ursa major said:


> Do you think we ought to mention that every old thread raised from the dead automatically chops a few days off the necromancer's life...?


It also curls the hair but since I am of African descent it is not a problem.


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## Bramandin (Jun 15, 2022)

psikeyhackr said:


> I'll have to try to find this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol, that's edible, but pretty standard for cheap frozen meals.  Really what you want to do is make a big crock-pot of beef stew, put some of the leftovers into a glass baking dish, top it with mashed potatoes, and reheat it in the oven the next day.


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## Pyan (Jun 15, 2022)

A mashed potato-topped pie made with beef is a cottage pie. To be a shepherds pie, the meat must be lamb (or mutton). 
Shepherds don't look after cows - the clue is in the name...


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jun 15, 2022)

My husband is rather fond of that, um, product.  I will inform him that it has been masquerading under an assumed name.


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## Pyan (Jun 15, 2022)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> My husband is rather fond of that, um, product.  I will inform him that it has been masquerading under an assumed name.


You could always try to tempt him with a Cornish Stargazy Pie...


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jun 15, 2022)

It's the kind of thing I might have built a story around, if Victoria Goddard hadn't already done it better than I could ...but as for actually preparing it and eating something that fishy, my allergy to seafood says no. We will stick wth cottage pie.


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## Danny McG (Jun 15, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> a meal to tide you over till Dinner (the evening not afternoon meal) was Bara,Te which was hot Tea with no milk lots of sugar and lumps of Cheedar cheese and thick buttered bread all mixed together like a stew and eaten with a spoon


I just know that I'm now compelled to try this tomorrow!


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## hitmouse (Jun 15, 2022)

Montero said:


> A lot of years back I had singing lessons, and my teacher said that my middle class southern English accent was the worst for learning to sing, as it is a lot in the back of the throat and very flat so doesn't resonate. Whereas the Welsh accent places the voice very much just behind the lips, and it has good resonance, which is why a lot of Welsh are good singers, because they are already in the habit of placing their voice in the right part of the mouth for a good round sound.


I am not sure I agree with your singing teachers analysis. I would argue that it is the other way around. More pronounced in the north than the south, but just listen to Richard Burton or Anthony Hopkins or Michael Sheen, who are all from the Port Talbot area. Certainly, my Welsh is back of the throat compared to my home counties English. The vowels in Yma O Hyd are very much back of the mouth and pharynx.


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## Ursa major (Jun 16, 2022)

Pyan said:


> A mashed potato-topped pie made with beef is a cottage pie. To be a shepherds pie, the meat must be lamb (or mutton).
> Shepherds don't look after cows - the clue is in the name...


It seems that you do have a beef about the product (and its name)....


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 16, 2022)

Danny McG said:


> I just know that I'm now compelled to try this tomorrow!



It was very much a meal of necessity  so  I am not sure that it will go across well in this day and age but IIRC use very Strong tea leave it infuse for a good 4 minutes, at least 3 teaspoons of sugar, the bread is butterd and thick cut add the cheese first and give it a minute then the bread. 

Its kind of like dipping a slice of cheese on toast into your morning tea and oddly enough its also nothing like dipping your morning toast into your tea


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## Mr Cairo (Jun 16, 2022)

Mr Cairo said:


> Couple of questions I may have missed is did your Captain come from money or not and how old are they?





Bramandin said:


> Binging it back to the original subject...




I was trying to stay on subject as age will mean the type of food that they ate as a child would be different, I was born in the 60's and what I ate growing up is incredibly different to what a child born in the late 80's would have eaten, food became a lot more diverse and affordable during the late 80's to early 90's and Cardiff (where the captain was born) is a massive multicultural city being so close to the docklands so lots of different exposure to different tastes.

Then the money, as I said earlier we grew up with little so we were exposed to cheap meals but people with money had more fish, fresh veg, fruit etc

I know this is a future set story but I was trying to get a feel for the captains childhood and age to ground my reply to my own experience .


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## Dave (Jun 16, 2022)

Pyan said:


> A mashed potato-topped pie made with beef is a cottage pie. To be a shepherds pie, the meat must be lamb (or mutton).
> Shepherds don't look after cows - the clue is in the name...





Ursa major said:


> It seems that you do have a beef about the product (and its name)....


I've a similar "beef" about Moussaka. It should be lamb mince, aubergine and thinly sliced potato *inside* with a béchamel sauce *on top. *If there is sliced potato on top, then that is not a Moussaka, that's a Lancashire Hot Pot!


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## Foxbat (Jun 16, 2022)

As this is a thread on UK cuisine, I’d like to point out that the haggis is the only British dish I know of that has suffered summary execution.

In 2001, there was an outbreak of foot and mouth in the UK. A correspondent for The Scotsman newspaper landed in Seattle and caused a panic. A haggis was discovered hidden in his luggage (banned in the USA). Security staff took it out to the runway, shot it repeatedly and then doused it in petrol.

Poor beastie.

Makes me proud to be a Scot


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## Pyan (Jun 16, 2022)

Here's a picture of haggis in the wild, for our overseas friends. Note that the left legs are longer than the right, enabling the wee beastie to scamper along steep hillsides. They're easily caught, though, by making them turn round. They promptly roll to the bottom of the slope where they can then be easily scooped up in a haggis-net, and taken off to be fattened up for Burn's Night.


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## Ursa major (Jun 17, 2022)

Pyan said:


> for Burn's Night


...named after the first person to cook a Haggis, a distant descendant of King Alfred (he of the famous "exceedingly baked" cakes)....


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