# Stranger Things - Season 4 part II (episodes 8-9) [SPOILERS for 1-7]



## Dave (May 28, 2022)

*This thread is for Stranger Things - Season 4. part II (episodes 8-9) *It will therefore will contain *spoilers for previous seasons* and *episodes 1-7 of this season* and they don't require spoiler tags.

For earlier seasons go to:

Season 1 -- Stranger Things - Season 1
Season 2 -- Stranger Things - Season 2
Season 3 -- Stranger Things - Season 3
Season 4 -- Stranger Things - Season 4 part I (episodes 1-7)


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## HareBrain (May 30, 2022)

Here are my thoughts on the first 7 episodes, for anyone else who's got that far:

There's still no hint of an explanation for how Hopper ended up in Russia. It might not be any coincidence that I found his strand the weakest in the show. It also made poor use of Murray and Joyce, who I'd enjoyed in previous seasons. I also can't really see how Hopper's storyline is going to feed into the rest of it. Based on this, I'd much rather he'd died at the end of S3.

The storyline linking "Vecna", No 1, Jane and Victor Creel was masterfully done, I thought, and saved the season so far.

I could have done without yet another story about bullying and yet another one about townspeople getting into a moral panic and hunting down innocent people. (And where did that lead? By the end of E7, nowhere interesting.)

Ridiculous in E6 how everyone turned into a championship freediver and became immune to cold.

I like how it turned out that the Upside Down is a "snapshot" at a particular point in time (when Jane opened the gate). I've often wondered, given that it contains cars, what happened when people drove those cars in the real world. Now I have an explanation, which always pleases me.

BUT how come the Upside Down was literally upside down at the gate in the caravan in E7, but nowhere else? (Such as when Hopper and Joyce go through in S1?)

The chief military guy's rationale for his actions, that Jane is somehow responsible for the latest events in Hawkins even though she's in California, just feels really weak.

Overall: I think it was worth watching but there was some very dubious plotting/rationale here which reduced buy-in. S1 and S2 were worth watching again, but I don't think this will be.


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## therapist (May 31, 2022)

Well, I just finished all seven episodes. Overall I thought it was about on par with previous couple of seasons, and worth a watch if you liked those. I really enjoyed Eddie as a new character.



ctg said:


> Hopper weren't limping


Yea I found that very distracting. He just had his foot smashed and broken. But had zero problem walking on it or even jumping off that hut and landing on his foot.

Also, something that irked me:

The ice skating bullying scene felt ridiculous. Noone had a problem with traumitizing this poor girl, they all found it hilarious, even the DJ helped orchastrate her humiliation. They all felt like badly written caricature villains. Was that believable for anyone?


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## HareBrain (May 31, 2022)

The ice skating bullying scene felt ridiculous. Noone had a problem with traumitizing this poor girl, they all found it hilarious, even the DJ helped orchastrate her humiliation. They all felt like badly written caricature villains. Was that believable for anyone?
No, that whole thing was really crudely done, and I'm also not sure what the point of it was except to provide a thematic link with the bullying 11 undergoes in the lab. But that's a lot of effort for little reward.


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## Dave (Jun 2, 2022)

I've seen all 7 episodes now, and agree with the comments above. I was expecting that there would be more explanation of those things too, which as it doesn't appear to be coming, makes for


HareBrain said:


> some very dubious plotting/rationale


The ending of season 3 was such a good ending with everything tied up neatly. I'm still feeling that all these 7 episodes have done is unravel that ending in a very clumsy way, without taking us very far anywhere else. It has all just been a set up for these final 2 episodes (which people who have watched them have said are fantastic - but admittedly, they were Netflix executives, so they would say that, wouldn't they?)


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## HareBrain (Jun 2, 2022)

Dave said:


> The ending of season 3 was such a good ending with everything tied up neatly.


Except the whole Russian thing, in terms of saying how the Soviets had got interested in gate tech in the first place (did they have a spy at Hawkins lab?) and how they managed to build the base under the mall without anyone knowing. I was prepared to give the makers a pass on the basis that the season was a riff on 80s cold war paranoia, but S4 isn't that, so it stands out more (to me, anyway).



Dave said:


> It has all just been a set up for these final 2 episodes (which people who have watched them have said are fantastic - but admittedly, they were Netflix executives, so they would say that, wouldn't they?)


I was impressed enough by E7 to hope they might be right. ST has tended to stick the endings in the past, unlike some series that build up threads they can't resolve.


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## Elckerlyc (Jun 7, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> BUT how come the Upside Down was literally upside down at the gate in the caravan in E7, but nowhere else? (Such as when Hopper and Joyce go through in S1?)


The difference here was that the portal was in a horizontal plane. Before it was always a wall. The portal at the bottom of the lake was also a upside down event. 
What was remarkable though was that in the caravan the portal was 2 meters up in the ceiling. Likewise in the Upside Down. Which seemed weird. Given that scenario, a portal could be anywhere.


HareBrain said:


> The chief military guy's rationale for his actions, that Jane is somehow responsible for the latest events in Hawkins even though she's in California, just feels really weak.


The whole military sub-plot felt extraneous to me. Unnecessary and, seeing how the reasoned and acted, unbelievable. So far it added nothing to the plot.


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## ctg (Jun 22, 2022)

So, according to the trailer, number one gets out and Murray gets a flamethrower. What else would you need from the final? 









						No hope for Hawkins? Trailer for Stranger Things S4 Part 2 is pretty bleak
					

The super-sized two-part season finale is basically a pair of feature films.




					arstechnica.com


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## HareBrain (Jun 22, 2022)

I feel awful saying this about anything by Kate Bush, but I'm now bored of that song.


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## ctg (Jun 22, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> I feel awful saying this about anything by Kate Bush, but I'm now bored of that song.


You are not the only one.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jun 23, 2022)

Well, it's a great album...


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## Mouse (Jun 27, 2022)

The Kate Bush cassette is selling for ridiculous amounts on eBay. I thought I had it but I checked and I only have the (scratched to hell) CD.

Anyway, I've just finished the final ep of part one. I cannot _stand_ that Argyle character. I hope to god he stays with that Eden girl and doesn't show up in part two. Jonathan, too, is a waste of space.

Love Steve, if anything happens to him I'll rage. Best character by far. I do love his and Dustin's relationship (and his and Robin's).

Why did number one wait so long before he started murdering people again* and why only teens this time seeing as he killed his mother previously? Also, why does number eight have entirely different powers to everyone else? Sort of feels like this was a mistake.

The CGI Eleven weirds me out a bit.

Oh, and how the FRICK did Papa survive being eaten by the Demogorgon??!!

*I get cos he was in the facility but he's been six years in the Upside Down, right? Or have I got that wrong?


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## HareBrain (Jun 27, 2022)

Mouse said:


> Love Steve, if anything happens to him I'll rage. Best character by far. I do love his and Dustin's relationship (and his and Robin's).


Completely agree.



Mouse said:


> Why did number one wait so long before he started murdering people again* and why only teens this time seeing as he killed his mother previously?


I suppose it could have taken him six years to develop his powers in his new form, or find a way to project from the UD into reality. (And maybe the barrier between the two was weakened because of events in S1-S3.) But as for the teens-only murders, it's probably just riffing on a certain kind of film, like S3 was (cold war paranoia) and it doesn't pay to prod it too closely.


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## therapist (Jun 29, 2022)

Mouse said:


> I cannot _stand_ that Argyle character.


I disliked him a lot aswell. I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Do you know why you didn't like him?
I thought Eddie was a great new character though. I instantly liked him and begun cheering for his safety.


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## Mouse (Jun 30, 2022)

Not sure exactly! Just seems a bit stupid and pointless... like, they could've just made Jonathan a stronger character. I feel like they don't need another random character tagging along.

I do like Eddie too.


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## HareBrain (Jul 1, 2022)

Dave said:


> It has all just been a set up for these final 2 episodes (which people who have watched them have said are fantastic - but admittedly, they were Netflix executives, so they would say that, wouldn't they?)


I will never trust anything a Netflix executive says ever again.

Admittedly I've only seen the first of the last two episodes, but E8 was more in need of a severe edit than anything I've watched in my life. Periods of frustrated weeping were interspersed with desperate cries of "GET ON WITH IT!!!" at the screen. And it's only going to get worse, because no way is there enough story left in the set-up for the 2.5 hours of E9 I have yet to sit through. Ugh.


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## Boaz (Jul 1, 2022)

Going to watch right now....


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## ctg (Jul 2, 2022)

Spoiler: Chapter 8 - Papa



"What have you done?" Papa growled after 11 had cast No 1 to other dimension. It is so easy to blame the wrong person, when you have no idea what really happened, but then again it's not really that far for the 11 to go mental and produce the same exactly result as what No 1 did when he cleared the DoE underground facility.

Why is that Papa didn't act on his anger after 11 fell on the floor?

Eight years later, in the secret underground facility, he was doing everything for saving El as she drifted back to the reality. I just can't say he was doing it out of love, but it was self-interest on saving the only subject he'd left from his previous studies. It also surprised me that the doctor's didn't cheer, when she demonstrated her power straight after she got up from the medical table.

In their shoes, I would have whooped and clapped hands, but the doctors looked more like they were in a shock. Afterwards, Papa showed that he'd learned nothing, especially not on the bedside manner, as he was spilling out his beliefs on Vecna's invasion. 

He could not stop El from leaving the facility, which curiously is located outside the Nellis AFB in the Nevada desert. Aliens and psychics. What is about that place? And just like with the ET's, Papa couldn't let El to go. He did everything, even put her into a chemical come, to try to turn the girl's head.  What a monster. 

When after a little while the Major's men assaulted the underground facility I was cheering for them to come to rescue, even though Papa for once told the truth about El being the main mark. Why is that Major so bloodthirsty? 






Nancy's dilemma, the boarding that shouldn't be there, even if it's made on classical American style. I just can't believe it. But I do get that she's in the worst possible place, and there's not much else she could have done, when it's Vecna's dimension. But why is that the general needed to reveal his plans like a two penny villain? Why he needed to send a message to 11?

He could have easily done the worst and turned Nancy to one of those grotesque corpses, and the kids could not have done nothing to stop it from happening. Instead, he revealed that plan on splitting the Hawking's in two with his dimensional tear. 

The bigger surprise came with Nancy's explanation and with the revelation about the four gates, that should have already happened, but the Scooby gang stopped it. I really liked that El snooped their battle planning and the facts that the kids had no idea on how to fight the Army of the Darkness. After all, none of them are Ash or have his ability to cope with the demonic forces and put them down. Only Eleven can do that. But it didn't stop them from making the plan and accepting that Max victimizes herself by ditching Kate Bush. 

I loved that they still got an idea to get guns and gear, and to do that they nicked an RV straight out of the trailer park.






Back in the Gulag, things weren't really improving. At least the two got to see each other, and I loved that Joyce confessed her love and told the Sheriff that he's, "the hero of Hawking's," Maybe because he'd been, "gone for eight months," and they'd buried him already. 

The interesting bit is that the guard at the outside couldn't handle the beast, even though four of them emptied their AK's at point-blank range. The bullets did absolutely nothing and the most certainly didn't stop the monster, from tearing them to pieces, even though at the same time they'd another one strapped on a trolley at Gulag's basement. With its chest cut open. 

Did the guards miss all those shots, because Hopper was able to put down the wounded one with one round in the head? 7.62 Makarov doesn't have more omph than the AK round. It physically isn't possible. And then there's the fact that all the gunners were aiming, before they lose. 

The bigger surprise was with the gallery of monsters that Hopper found out next. To my eyes, the Soviets had been on the case for a long while, and in the heart of the lab they'd the most terrifying monster that we'd seen so far. The way it looked reminded me of Lovecraft's Soggoths, as they too don't really have a shape, but they do have tentacles. 






The lost boys, Mike especially. I get that they're on a rescue adventure, but the feelings Mike are putting out aren't really correlating with what we are seeing. Instead they make me feel that Mike doesn't really know about his sexuality and what he felt towards El weren't real. Instead he got the fussy feelings and that led him to misjudge about what he really likes. 

At least they find El in the desert and took her with them to after Dr Brenner died. Not going to miss him.



Note even though they claimed this one to be longer than the previous ones, it's the third-longest episode after chapters 7 and 9.


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## HareBrain (Jul 2, 2022)

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Why is that Major so bloodthirsty?





Spoiler



Unless something is revealed in E9, I'm guessing it's just "so the plot can happen".  Honestly, they'd have done better to eliminate that whole strand from the story (plus the Soviet one). It was beyond ludicrous that they left no guard up top except a sniper in a helicopter, who could have done nothing if three of the staff had tried to escape by running in different directions in zigzags. And why did it take so long for Sullivan and his men to get back to the surface? I know it's petty to pick holes like this, but it just shows how uninvolving I found the episode


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## jeremy123 (Jul 2, 2022)

Credits: Meme


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## ctg (Jul 2, 2022)

Spoiler: Chapter 9 - The Piggyback



So I did a little digging, to get to Hawkins from Nevada desert, the boys have to drive 28 hours straight and I don't think the pizza taxi is going to make it. Flying from the russia with a helicopter, even longer.  






The Scooby gang's military wing. To my eye they'd been have more believable as wearing civilian clothes instead of using the mil-kit as if they're professionals. Only Justin and Eddie looked right for the role, because none of them are heroes. They are all kids and I don't them to become heroes, even thought they are showing fearlessness. 

I loved the gateway fort that Justin and Eddie managed to fabricate from junk pieces. It looked proper and also something that the kids would do, without having an idea what's actually workable.






Boys, El and the Piggyback plan. To me, this presented as clever writing, using El's power to reach Max's mind and getting into the fight, while still being in the Nevada desert. No 28 hour drive, wishing for the pizza taxi to make it. Just a motel, bathtub, salt and fun times. Except Argyle didn't have that in his mind. Instead, he had a place. WTF?

How did he drive so fast to the pizza parlour? Is America like UK, where everything is around the corner all of so suddenly, and the Nevada branch was just there, a hop away?

At least they managed to defreeze the fridge, fill it with salty water and even make a pizza, before El went under and found out that Max's plan didn't work. Not for the first time. Not before El got involved and Eddie started playing Master of the Puppets to lure away the bat creatures, and Max entered into a happy memory that Vecna started to twist. 

Maybe the biggest twist was with Eddie shoving Justin back to the real-world, and then playing the real hero card by sacrificing himself to the bats. All before El found a way to get into Max's memory to show Vecna who's the boss. 

Except that didn't happen and El got trapped, and were forced to listen No 1's blathering about who's really responsible about everything. It was a slight surprise that during No 1's exploration, 11's mind connected to his vision, and thus she was able to draw the Soggoth, without ever realizing what she was really seeing.  

It's sad that Max and Eddie ended up being the last victim for Vecna's curse, before the dimensional rift tore Sinclair in half.






The cunning plan, go back to prison and destroy "monster particles" with a flamethrower, while Yuri fixes the helicopter. What could go wrong, or actually could it at all work?

Yuri did find his courage after a bit of pushing, but Hopper's side went into warzone, willingly. It's just when they got into the prison, no blood, no guts or brain matter. Instead all of the monsters had broken out and only made a mess, until they got into the prison side. Then the corpses started to appear. So who let the Soggoth/Shadow out? 

The best moment in the prison fight was with the Murray going all out and Hopper picking up the arena sword afterwards to put down the demigorgon. 






The end of Hawkins, just because nobody knows how to double tap. What a shame. There's no fixing it. No way to hide it. El tried to fix Max, but no luck. At least Hopper got back home. 

Does the end mean that the Soggoth is coming home?


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## Boaz (Jul 2, 2022)

Well, I was surprised by the length of episode nine.  It went another two hours after I said to myself, "They've got to start wrapping this up."

I have enjoyed the series and I will watch the final season.

But Henry One Vecna's five minute plot exposition in episode nine was tiring.... and that's on top of the ten minute plot exposition in episode seven!  The writers have shown themselves to be great storytellers at times and both of these harangues at Eleven are horrible storytelling.  It is much more interesting to have Hopper, Joyce, Murray, the teenagers, or the kids guess at or piece together the clues... even if they don't get it right.  Information dumps by the villain are boring.

One bit of difficulty is that there were up to eight locations that needed simultaneous updating during the finale.



Spoiler: Final Showdown



In Hawkins...
1. Jonathan, Will, Mike, pizza stoned, and El.
2. Max, Lucas, and basketball captain.
3. Erica and basketball player.
4. Dustin.
In Kamchatka...
5. Hopper, Joyce, Murray, guard, and psycho pilot.
In the Upside-down...
6. Eddie and bats.
7. Nancy, Steve, and Steve's friend.
In Max's mind...
8. Max, El, and Henry One Vecna.



I understand the epic proportions that the writers desire to convey.  The globe spanning catastrophe ahead...  The battle rages between reality, alternate-reality and the human brain...  But this numberof ongoing cliffhangers erodes the believability of time... timeliness... and timing...  Don't string the resolution out unecessarily to try and build suspense. If the characters have been properly developed and the story is great, then the suspense is already there for a competent audience.

"I'm going to make some popcorn. No, don't pause it.... just keep going... I can hear it. You want some popcorn?  Give me shout when there is some resolution and we get back to the story, okay? What?  Oh yeah, I'll put milk on the grocery list... What about dog food?  Yeah, toilet paper too.  Hey do you want butter on your popcorn?  Garlic?  Dang, no garlic.  I'll put that on the list as well.  What's that?  Yes, I called the AC guy.  He'll be here some time tomorrow afternoon.  Nah, he just said after noon.  Well, it's supposed to rain overnight so it should not get too hot tomorrow. Popcorn's done.... you want a drink.  Come on, bourbon goes great with popcorn.  Well, I'm having some.  Okay.... here's your bowl... here's my bowl... NO! Chomper! Bad dog.  No popcorn for you... Look, here's a greenie treat... Sit.  Sit.  Sit.  Good dog.  Alright.... did I miss anything?  Good."


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## HareBrain (Jul 2, 2022)

Well, E9 was better than E8. It still needed tightening by at least half an hour, but it held my attention and there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).

Interestingly: it turns out Major Sullivan was right in a way to think that Eleven was the source of the catastrophes, though he was a few years too late to do anything about it. And what's happened to him anyway? Is he going to appear in S5?

I couldn't work out if the revelation that One was behind everything from the beginning really works. Some of the retconning felt a bit shaky.

But it sets everything up well enough for S5, which won't have such problems as people starting in widely different locations, so I'll look kindly on it, even though it was bloated and nowhere near as good as S1.


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## Boaz (Jul 3, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> Well, E9 was better than E8. It still needed tightening by at least half an hour, but it held my attention and there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).
> 
> Interestingly: it turns out Major Sullivan was right in a way to think that Eleven was the source of the catastrophes, though he was a few years too late to do anything about it. And what's happened to him anyway? Is he going to appear in S5?
> 
> ...


Completely agree.

I don't want people to think that I did not enjoy the fourth season.


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## HareBrain (Jul 3, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> there were some moving moments (though some of the moments the writers clearly felt were meant to be moving fell a bit flat for me).


I've been thinking about this a bit. They have some top-flight actors who can convey natural emotion brilliantly. But the writers have a tendency to do emotional speeches (like between Hopper and Joyce, and Mike inspiring Eleven) that just aren't like how people really communicate, they're like how scriptwriters think they should communicate to land the emotional "beats", and these fall flat. A shame.


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## Dave (Jul 3, 2022)

I haven't had time to watch these yet. I've been away, I'm back home now, but out again tomorrow, and busy on Tuesday night. Given the length of these, I don't know when I *will* have the time. This show now seems to have a cult following though, and can seem to do no wrong at all. So, all the complaints made here about the plotting and pacing are as much a waste of time as complaining about _Obi-Wan Kenobi_ to Star Wars fans.


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## Mouse (Jul 4, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> I couldn't work out if the revelation that One was behind everything from the beginning really works. Some of the retconning felt a bit shaky.


Yeah I wasn't so sure about that. Especially when the kids first said he was only a 'general'. That feels more like it to me, that there's something even bigger than him.

I enjoyed it but it was a bit long. Could've done without the Russian stuff, it just didn't really interest me and I'm still not quite sure how it all fit in. How did the Russians find out about the Upside Down and why is there a portal in Russia anyway? I did think Joyce and co were going to go through the Upside Down Russian side to get back to Hawkins but they didn't.

Still no idea how Papa survived being dead in series one and I guess we'll never find out.

I thought that 



Spoiler



Eddie would die doing something heroic


 so that was no surprise.

Argyle, still no.

Still love Steve, Robin & Dustin. Apparently there's going to be a spin off show but unless it's The Adventures of Steve, Robin & Dustin then I'm not interested. Hopefully in series 5 Nancy will dump useless Jonathan and get back with Steve.

Saying that, I did like Jonathan's talk to Will - obviously he's aware Will is gay and is letting him know it's ok.

I read that there's going to be a jump in time for series 5 to explain the kids ages, but I can't see how they can just jump forward after that series 4 ending. Like, 



Spoiler



there's this big Upside Down doom cloud over Hawkins for the last three years but we're all fine with it


 doesn't seem right.

Oh, Erica is also kick-ass.


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## HareBrain (Jul 4, 2022)

Mouse said:


> I can't see how they can just jump forward after that series 4 ending. Like,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dunno, back in the eighties we all lived under one of those.


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## paeng (Jul 5, 2022)

I read that viewer ratings in some sites have gone down compared to earlier seasons, and probably because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate. There are also awkward scenes inserted in episodes that are already made complex through parallel plots. Finally, some in other forums complain that some of the characters' behavior doesn't make sense.


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## ctg (Jul 5, 2022)

paeng said:


> I read that viewer ratings in some sites have gone down compared to earlier seasons, and probably because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate.


No. It's one of the most popular Netflix shows and when it came back over 15 million US households tuned in to watch it. 



paeng said:


> Finally, some in other forums complain that some of the characters' behavior doesn't make sense.


There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Nevertheless, could you give us an example?


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## Dave (Jul 5, 2022)

It's hugely popular, enormous, and now mainstream, and because of the news around the Kate Bush song, friends of mine, and even my wife, who would never watch "science fiction" have now heard of it. Last weekend I even saw people wearing "stranger things" T-shirts. But, while I haven't yet seen the final two episodes, I think that the last few seasons could never capture the same essence and warmth that those first two seasons had. That often happens with TV shows (the ones that don't get cancelled after one season.)


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## Dave (Jul 5, 2022)

paeng said:


> because the '80s nostalgia and small-town presence no longer dominate.



I just came across this pop-up advertisement:  Stranger Things - The Experience - London

I don't think this would make any money if that that were the case because it isn't people who 'lived through the 1980's' who will buy tickets to an event that allows you to "Immerse yourself on your own adventure" and to be "be the protagonist of a Stranger Things adventure." My daughter would take part in this kind of thing but I don't know any of my generation that would. Of course, this might only prove that I have very boring friends and relations, because it sounds quite good!


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## ctg (Jul 5, 2022)

Duffer brothers talk about season 4 and the final season that should be shorter than the previous ones.


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## Judderman (Jul 5, 2022)

Well they were great fun. Definitely convoluted in places but it kept my interest over huge episodes. No need for nearly half an hour of “charming” wrap-up at the end with another season coming though. 
It is a little cheesy but is based on kids 80s adventures after all.
Have to love that intro music.


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## Judderman (Jul 5, 2022)

Will is surely a hero to be in the final season.


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## REBerg (Jul 6, 2022)

*04.8*


Spoiler






ctg said:


> Dr Brenner died. Not going to miss him.


That took long enough. I half-expected him to pop up and wave goodbye, after all that drawn-out, love-hate Papa drama.


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## paeng (Jul 6, 2022)

ctg said:


> No. It's one of the most popular Netflix shows and when it came back over 15 million US households tuned in to watch it.
> 
> 
> There are a lot of things that don't make sense. Nevertheless, could you give us an example?



I'm referring to the RT ratings, from 97 to 89 pct, and Metacritic, from 76 to 69-72:









						Stranger Things - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




About things that don't make sense, there are several examples in various reviews. Here's one referring to Season 3 (warning: NSFW):






Interestingly enough, the same review argued that Season 4 became better (same warning):






but it also looked bloated to me, and ironically because of reasons that cast the previous season in a negative light.

For me, it started as a horror version of E.T. (nerds playing RPGs and contending with socials and jocks) combined with Lovecraft's elder ones and secret government, and all sprinkled with multiple references to the 1980s, but all of that was slowly set aside to create what would become a combination of kids and adults vs. monsters vs. government group vs. government group, and so on.


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## paeng (Jul 6, 2022)

Dave said:


> I just came across this pop-up advertisement:  Stranger Things - The Experience - London
> 
> I don't think this would make any money if that that were the case because it isn't people who 'lived through the 1980's' who will buy tickets to an event that allows you to "Immerse yourself on your own adventure" and to be "be the protagonist of a Stranger Things adventure." My daughter would take part in this kind of thing but I don't know any of my generation that would. Of course, this might only prove that I have very boring friends and relations, because it sounds quite good!



I think the same thing, too, especially given news about Netflix and BlackRock:






That is, given the need to sell to an audience that mostly don't care about the 1980s, why even bother set it in that period? I can only guess it's because the main characters were RPG enthusiasts (which dominated during the 1980s) who saw connections between their hobby and the monsters they encountered in the show. But except for a few references in the fourth season, that theme didn't prevail, and it's probably because the show became more popular among those who cared little for the 1980s and RPGs.


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## paeng (Jul 6, 2022)

Some asides: for those wondering about that kids-RPG-1980s-alien ethos, they can probably see that in some scenes from the movie _E.T._ For example,






For an example of notable dialogue, here's one clip about the family not believing the kid, a funny remark and reaction, followed by pathos. Not bad. I think the closest I saw to that in the show came from Joyce's character:






Dude, your mom's pretty hot. LOL.


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## Dave (Jul 6, 2022)

I don't want to get into a debate about the popularity of Netflix here, but _Stranger Things_ is one of the shows that made it grow so big, and it is easy to see why they like it so much. Yes, it owes a heavy debt to _ET. _I was speaking to friends at the weekend without Netflix, who had only heard of it because of the Kate Bush track being number one in the UK charts. I explained that it was set in the late 1980's with an eighties soundtrack. I said it was kids on bikes investigating the paranormal. Straight away, they said, "Oh! It's ET then!"

I've now seen episode 8, _Papa_. I don't think I had such a high expectation of it, because I thought it was good and well-paced. Plot holes? Yes, there are ubiquitous plot holes. None are quite as big as Hopper smashing his ankle with a sledgehammer and then running, jumping and fighting monsters, but you do have to wonder why the US military only has one single helicopter and one rifle. 

_Why is Sullivan so angry?_ I don't know that either. They seem to think that the psionic experiments were fundamentally evil and maybe he is a religious zealot? I guess we aren't going to find out the reason. This hatred of people with psionic abilities was another 1980's theme that they have borrowed from and used within _Stranger Things. _You see it best in Roger Price's _The Tomorrow People _and the despising of the Homo Superiors (a word used by David Bowie in _Oh! You Pretty Things _and then later in_ Marvel's X-Men c_omics by Magneto to refer to mutants.)


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## ctg (Jul 6, 2022)

Dave said:


> I don't want to get into a debate about the popularity of Netflix here, but _Stranger Things_ is one of the shows that made it grow so big, and it is easy to see why they like it so much.


It's not big, it's HUGE. I went this morning to get milk and rolling papers, and there was a fat geezer sitting in the bench, watching Stranger Things on full blast on his mobile phone. The series is loved by many and to be honest, it is different. More importantly, it's portrayed from little people perspective, and they are not rolling in money or fame, instead they do what needs to be done despite it hurting in the process. In a way, they are folk heroes. Who wouldn't want to watch that sort of series?


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## ctg (Jul 6, 2022)

Season 4 is approaching the Squid Game numbers as the most watched thing in the Netflix. People have already watched over a billion hours of it (1.15), while the same number over 28 days for the Squid Game is 1.6.  









						Stranger Things rikkoo jälleen ennätyksiä - Uusia jaksoja on nyt katsottu yli miljardi tuntia - Muropaketti.com
					

Stranger Things on nyt Netflixin kaikkien aikojen toiseksi katsotuin sarja. Stranger Things -sarjan neljännen kauden jaksoja on katsottu Netflixin mukaan nyt yhteensä yli miljardi tuntia. Tarkka luku on viime perjantaina tarjolle t…




					muropaketti.com
				




(I know it's a Finnish source, but at least it's a trustful.)


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## ctg (Jul 6, 2022)

> Ahead of volume 2's premiere, _Screen Rant _spoke exclusively with Joseph Quinn to discuss _Stranger Things _season 4, his nerves at joining the Netflix series, his character's tragic fate, preparing for his epic music sequence and more.











						Joseph Quinn Interview: Stranger Things Season 4
					

Season 4 is now streaming entirely.




					screenrant.com


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## Judderman (Jul 6, 2022)

It's not as big as Game of Thrones but that had a book series with existing following. Then became a phenomen. Still huge though, as CTG rightfully says.

The Stranger Things creators recently mentioned that they are not Game of Thrones. In that it isn't a show where main characters get culled.


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## REBerg (Jul 6, 2022)

'Stranger Things' Season 5 Release Date Is Still Being Figured Out Say the Duffer Brothers [Exclusive]
					

How soon can we expect 'Stranger Things' Season 5 to arrive?




					collider.com
				




Quality over speed is a good choice, but I hope the Duffers give us the final season before these "kids" are headquartered in a nursing home.


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## Dave (Jul 6, 2022)

Seen the final part and Number One is still around so Season 5 is alive. I agree that it was way too long and that most of that was going over old ground again, with hugs and joyous reunions. 

I hadn't realised that Netflix had so many viewers in the UK. I just checked and as many people have subscriptions as watch Channel 4. Sky and Virgin Media subscriptions are nowhere near. Game of Thrones must have been quite a catch for Sky to get.


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## paeng (Jul 7, 2022)

The reference to _GoT_ is notable because the _Post _said the same thing:









						‘Stranger Things’ Season 4 review: Penultimate season is too bloated
					

Everything is turning upside-down. “Stranger Things” is back after three years and the Netflix hit is bigger than ever — but it’s a mixed bag in its penultimate season. At the end of Se…




					nypost.com
				






> The season has taken the same “bigger is better” approach as did “Game of Thrones” in its swan song … and we all know how it worked out for that show.
> 
> “Stranger Things” became a hit from its start not only because it pays homage to everyone’s pop culture favorites from the ’80s, but also because it underpinned its zany adventures and action-horror genre thrills with lovable characters and relationships that were worth caring about.



If that review is fairly accurate, then I think the reason why the user ratings were slowly going down is because both that homage and character development weakened as the show started moving in different directions.

The problem is that the main storyline was already pretty thin in terms of content such that it would have been good enough for at most two seasons, which is why the writers and producers had no choice but to make it bigger, in order to stretch it across more.


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## HareBrain (Jul 7, 2022)

paeng said:


> the writers and producers had no choice but to make it bigger


One reason is that (much like GRR Martin) they kept introducing new side-characters in previous seasons and then decided to give each of them almost as big a role as the main characters. I can see why they didn't want to kill anyone off, but some of them could easily have been let go.


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## ctg (Jul 8, 2022)

> The Duffer Brothers may be the master storytellers behind the fictional tale of _Stranger Things_, but they also admit to taking inspiration from real life conspiracies and true crime stories. While longtime fans of the show may already know about the Montauk Project origins of the Hawkins Lab, some may not be aware that the tragically misplaced suspicion that Eddie Munson was under is also based on actual events in West Memphis, Arkansas in 1993.
> 
> The West Memphis Three were three teenagers who were accused of murdering three eight-year-old boys in what was presented to the press as a Satanic sacrifice. Heavy metal music of the type Eddie Munson would have undoubtedly enjoyed was mistaken for “the devil’s music” by police investigators at the time. Despite a lack of evidence, West Memphis residents and the authorities were quick to accuse the metal-loving, long-haired teenagers who were viewed as outcasts by the rest of the Satanic panic-stricken community.
> 
> In March 1994, Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley Jr., and Jason Baldwin were found guilty of three counts of murder, although the police investigation and trials were widely criticized in the years following the decision. The case was the subject of the 1996 HBO documentary _Paradise Lost_ as well as 2012’s _West of Memphis_, which was written and directed by Amy Berg and produced by Peter Jackson with Echols.











						Stranger Things: The True Story That Inspired Eddie Munson
					

The wrongful accusation of Eddie Munson in Stranger Things season 4 was inspired by a real life case of Satanic panic.




					www.denofgeek.com


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## ctg (Jul 18, 2022)

> _Stranger Things_ came back from a pandemic-driven three-year hiatus stronger than ever with an ambitious supersized fourth season—so much so that Netflix released it in two parts. Part 1 had a few minor flaws, particular in the earlier episodes, but quickly gained dramatic momentum. The cliffhanger ending deftly set the stage for the epic final two episodes, which featured a visually stunning, nail-biting battle against the denizens of the Upside Down—and some of the most emotionally resonant moments in the series to date. It's been two weeks since Part 2 dropped—the perfect time to talk about the many highs and occasional lows of this latest season.











						Catching up with Stranger Things S4 (yes, we have some feels)
					

Two weeks after the epic finale, we're taking a spoiler-filled analysis approach.




					arstechnica.com
				




Very long analysis


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## SilentRoamer (Jul 18, 2022)

I thoroughly enjoyed Season 4.

I don't watch much television, watch some box sets and the odd series. Stranger Things frequently goes in a funny direction and keeps things interesting.

I know everyone loves "Running p that Hill" but for me this track is awesome:


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## ctg (Aug 16, 2022)




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## ctg (Sep 13, 2022)

Congratulations to Netflix and to the Stranger Things crew for winning an Emmy. Well done.


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## Judderman (Sep 13, 2022)

Seems it is out of favour this year. Has wins but rather than acting or drama it is for sound/music, stunt coordination and prosthetics. Which makes sense.


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## OuttaInc (Sep 13, 2022)

As an aside, The Duffer Brothers have a course on MasterClass that is quite good, too. Even though the title is, "Developing an Original TV Series" their writing style is general enough that it could be applied to any type of writing. 

My favorite lessons are the ones where they demonstrate their blue-skying and outlining techniques in real time. It's positively mind boggling how the two of them edit the same document simultaneously, bouncing ideas off of one another and converging on a single story arc. Made me realize how much I've been missing out by not having the foresight of being born a twin.


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## Hugh (Oct 17, 2022)

Well, I've just finished Season 4 and thought it disappointing.  Of course I will be watching Season 5 eventually, but I'm very glad to be having a break.  

I've skimmed through previous posts and may be repeating to some extent....

I thought Season 3 was weaker than 1 and 2, and 4 was weaker than 3.

Some reflections on this....

The reveal of Vecna as 001 and as the motivating force for the Upside Down interest in Our-Right-Side-Up was interesting, but, for me it just reduced everything to Vecna, Supervillain and that becomes just another supervillain story, whereas the Mind-Flayer felt much more powerful and unsettling.

I preferred Hopper as small-town sheriff rather than this present-day  Marvel superhero incarnation capable of doing just about anything.  

In general I'm unhappy with the widening of the plot to give it an international and national dimension rather than the small town feel of the first two series.

I hate writers setting up cliffhangers.


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## Hugh (Nov 9, 2022)

And I've just finished watching Season 1 again - thought it so much better than Season 4


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## ctg (Nov 9, 2022)

Hugh said:


> And I've just finished watching Season 1 again - thought it so much better than Season 4


Why?


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## Hugh (Nov 9, 2022)

ctg said:


> Why?


I wrote earlier:
_The reveal of Vecna as 001 and as the motivating force for the Upside Down interest in Our-Right-Side-Up was interesting, but, for me it just reduced everything to Vecna, Supervillain and that becomes just another supervillain story, whereas the Mind-Flayer felt much more powerful and unsettling.
I preferred Hopper as small-town sheriff rather than this present-day Marvel superhero incarnation capable of doing just about anything.
In general I'm unhappy with the widening of the plot to give it an international and national dimension rather than the small town feel of the first two series.
I hate writers setting up cliffhangers._

Watching Season 1 again, just reinforced all that for me:
The writing's really tight with lots of quick switches between the different groups, rather than extended lengthy sequences where the focus stays on one group.  In the later seasons there are periods of extended action followed by periods of casual/intimate chat between characters in breaks in the action that just do not ring true.
Joyce and Hopper are believable in Season 1, but have morphed into action heroes by Season 4.
The Upside Down is mysterious and threatening in Season 1 but its mystery has dissipated by Season 4.

Just my opinion.  I've met others who think Season 4 is the best.


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## ctg (Nov 9, 2022)

Hugh said:


> The Upside Down is mysterious and threatening in Season 1 but its mystery has dissipated by Season 4.


How did about knowing all that has happened with Number 1 and the creation of the Upside Down affected that mystery?


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## Hugh (Nov 9, 2022)

ctg said:


> How did about knowing all that has happened with Number 1 and the creation of the Upside Down affected that mystery?


If I understand you right, in Season 4 we find we're faced with just another super-villain, whereas in Season 1 everything is strange, threatening, mysterious.


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## ctg (Nov 9, 2022)

Hugh said:


> If I understand you right, in Season 4 we find we're faced with just another super-villain, whereas in Season 1 everything is strange, threatening, mysterious.


Well, no, the enemy is the same in season 4 as it is in the first one. However, in the latest season the enemy got a face and a personality, whereas in the first one it's more about a spooky feature that nobody can explain. And that scares people because they cannot understand it and it scared them, because they cannot fight it in normal terms.

In a way that I see it is, the original first season is like Spielberg's ET. Absolutely believable and somewhat scary, but as we've got to know the enemy and the nature of the other dimension over the years, it seems that we've started to despise the spookiness, because it all came from one sick individual and the Upside Down isn't tied to some bigger realm.

It all could be fixed and deepened if there was another evil thing.


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## Hugh (Nov 9, 2022)

@ctg wrote:
_Well, no, the enemy is the same in season 4 as it is in the first one. However, in the latest season the enemy got a face and a personality, whereas in the first one it's more about a spooky feature that nobody can explain. And that scares people because they cannot understand it and it scared them, because they cannot fight it in normal terms._
Agree.  In watching Season 1, I don't know who the enemy is or what the Upside Down is.  That works for me.
_
In a way that I see it is, the original first season is like Spielberg's ET. Absolutely believable and somewhat scary,_
Agree.  Maybe_ Close Encounters_.   Likewise overtones of _Buffy_ and others.

_but as we've got to know the enemy and the nature of the other dimension over the years, it seems that we've started to despise the spookiness, because it all came from one sick individual and the Upside Down isn't tied to some bigger realm._
Not sure about this.  The word _despise_ doesn't ring true - the whole business just becomes more bland.  The Upside Down World is still interesting, but loses something with the character of Vecna being revealed as the motivating force.

However, that's probably enough from me now - thanks for the discussion.  My brain needs to wind down.


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