# random HTML thoughts



## Highlander II (Oct 20, 2008)

I'm plunking through this 'advanced' HTML self-paced course here at work (I'll be done rather quickly since it's not all that 'advanced') - and it still teaches frames...

Do frames even render properly in IE?  Or was it Netscape that didn't like frames?  My very first website design ever had a frameset, but I know in one browser it didn't work (part of why I redesigned the site).

I'm looking at this thing and going 'uh, you do know you can do much the same with tables and a div layer and it'll look prettier and not irk people to death?' =)

of course, it still uses examples with 'htm' instead of 'html' as the extension... bad bad web course!


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## David Gullen (Oct 20, 2008)

Frames are OK(ish) but lost popularity partly due to coding fashion, partly due to apparent issues they causedindexing sites like Google (now resolved/irrelevant I believe).

They do make life a bit easier for maintenance, but I do prefer Div for reasons I find hard to articulate - it's just 'nicer'.  Though divs can be harder to maintain if you've got a div for a menu spanning many pages and want to change it - a sidebar for example.

These sites are good for references 
World Wide Web Consortium - Web Standards 
NCDesign HTML Design Guide v6.0

W3 is good for the CSS stuff - -and you should learn CSS!

Not aware of any frame issues with any browser these days, but I'm more of an experienced dabbler than a pro.


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## TheEndIsNigh (Oct 20, 2008)

You could whizz it past Lenny.


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## Highlander II (Oct 20, 2008)

Oh - the frameset site I had was eons ago... like, whoa - not even sure how long now. =)

My site has div layers and CSS all over it now.  Well, minimal CSS, I don't define every attribute in CSS.

And I've spent lots of time at W3C. =)  I'm just poking through this online course here at work and it's amusing me at a) what they call 'advanced' HTML and b) how 'excited' they seem about frames.

One question tho - external style sheets - has Netscape updated to actually read them now?  I think that was another issue I'd had.  I tried an external style sheet and my site wouldn't render in Netscape (I think).

I still prefer tables to frames.  Frames just look 'clunky' to me.

I spent most of the weekend rendering tables -> Harry Dresden - Wizard  Trying to get that to work out just right drove me batty!  I think there are 4 layers of tables in that thing, PLUS a div layer on a couple pages to make the tables scrollable.


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## Highlander II (Nov 25, 2008)

I've just looked at my page - and IE 6.0 here at work doesn't render it correctly - the spacing's off.

Whatever.  I hate IE.  It works in Firefox and everywhere else.


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