# When will Britian & Germany Give Back the Art Works to Greece



## Spartan27 (Mar 7, 2007)

Just a question to all, when will all the artwork from antiquity which was removed from Greece during the second world war be given back to it's rightful owner, Greece.  If you live in one of these countries, go to your museum and take a look at the stuff which was stolen (especially from the Parthanon).


----------



## BookStop (Mar 7, 2007)

The Elgin Marbles from the Parthenon were removed from Greece in the early part of the 19th century. British Museum

I am having trouble finding information on lost and stolen art from Greece during WWII. Spartan, are there websites that offer more info? Could you post links? This is an intersting topic, and I'd like tor ead more on it.


----------



## jackokent (Mar 7, 2007)

I wonder if it stops here.  There is, after all, stolen stuff all over the world.  

Every so often our work canteen has an embargo on nicked cutlery and plates and we all have to return it without being told off.  I recommend we have an international "give the stuff back" year and all these pieces of art / ancient artifacts etc can go back to thier rightful homes.


----------



## Talysia (Mar 7, 2007)

Sounds like a good idea, Jacko.  I wonder how many would take part, though...


----------



## BookStop (Mar 7, 2007)

A good idea, yes, but getting everyone who currently 'owns' the art agreeing to that ...well, might not be such a popular idea.


----------



## The Ace (Mar 7, 2007)

Yeah, will the french give back the "Mona Lisa ?"  TBH, barring a miracle, I think these priceless treasures will stay nicked, simply because too few people care.


----------



## jackokent (Mar 7, 2007)

Well I think it's terrible if people won't give the stuff back. I gave back all my forks and cups to the canteen! 

But seriously, I was probably and admitedly cynically, making the point that there is just too much nicked stuff out there for every country to start returning things. Just look how much egyption stuff we have. And then there's the definition of nicked. Does a country have a right to just give away it's heritage to another, sometimes bullying, other country. Technically stuff might be given away by the government but if the people don't want it to go, should it go and is it right for the receiver to accept things in this manner.

Then there are things taken in war time from individuals, not countries, and more contentiusly there is land won in wars. Should that be returned. 

I can't see anything changing hands unless the country returning it has a very good financial reason for doing so.  I'm not saying things should be returned but I wouldn't know where we should start.


----------



## mosaix (Mar 8, 2007)

The Ace said:


> Yeah, will the french give back the "Mona Lisa ?"  TBH, barring a miracle, I think these priceless treasures will stay nicked, simply because too few people care.



Hi Ace, I wasn't aware the the Mona Lisa was stolen - I always thought it was a financial transaction.

As to the Elgin Marbles, my advice is to write to your MP to get them returned. I have done so in the past without effect, but the more people who write the more our government will understand public opinion. 

BTW I wasn't aware that this was a WWII problem or that the Germans were involved.


----------



## murphy (Mar 8, 2007)

mosaix said:


> Hi Ace, I wasn't aware the the Mona Lisa was stolen - I always thought it was a financial transaction.
> 
> As to the Elgin Marbles, my advice is to write to your MP to get them returned. I have done so in the past without effect, but the more people who write the more our government will understand public opinion.
> 
> BTW I wasn't aware that this was a WWII problem or that the Germans were involved.


 
Truckloads of stolen artworks were sent to Germany from all the countries they had conquored during WWII.  I don't know how much was returned.


----------



## mosaix (Mar 8, 2007)

murphy said:


> Truckloads of stolen artworks were sent to Germany from all the countries they had conquored during WWII.  I don't know how much was returned.



I knew this was true for the countries like France but I'd not heard about Greece being involved.


----------



## Dave (Mar 8, 2007)

I believe the argument for not giving back the Elgin marbles is that had they remained in place, they would have been vandalised or corroded by pollution by now. It isn't a very good one, since the act of removing them was vandalism anyhow, but I think as regards this case, possession is 100% of the law. 

You do need to draw some line somewhere, otherwise we'd have to empty bank vaults all over the Northern Hemisphere and give all the gold back to Central and Southern America.

I think the Second World War is closer. I'm not aware of the artwork in the first posters question, but there is still artwork taken from Jews throughout Europe that has still not been returned to it's rightful owners. There is an organisation that works for this. I heard a report from a journalist who was given something in the early sixties in East Germany and just reunited it with the descendents of it's original owner last year.


----------



## BookStop (Mar 8, 2007)

I do believe folks are still trying to right the wrongs of WWII, it's just been so long, locating and then proof of ownership are more difficult.

Here is an intersting piece: Nazi looted Europe's great art treasures - The Crime library

and another: ABC News: Looted Art

As far as the Elgin Marbles, Lord Byron composed this at the time the were removed from Greece.
_Dull is the eye that will not weep to see_ _Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed_ _By British hands, which it had best behoved_ _To guard those relics ne’er to be restored._ _Curst be the hour when from their isle they roved,_ _And once again thy hapless bosom gored,_ _And snatch'd thy shrinking gods to northern climes abhorred!_ —"Childe Harold's Pilgrimage" Maybe they should be returned.


----------

