# Mining to start on the Moon soon



## Serendipity (Jul 13, 2017)

There's serious plans to start mining on the moon by 2020 - see https://gizmodo.com/secretive-company-says-it-could-be-mining-the-moon-by-2-1796856982


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## Vertigo (Jul 13, 2017)

Three years seems like a pretty tall order and I'm frankly still confused as to what they are going to mine on the moon for profit. I'd love to just see them do it but I'm still perplexed from a commercial point of view.


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## Dave (Jul 13, 2017)

The most profitable things to bring back is probably the litter we left behind there.


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## Serendipity (Jul 14, 2017)

I gather that apart from mining for metal ores - they must obviously be thinking it would be cheaper to mine some ores on the Moon than on Earth - they are going to mine water/ice, which has been postulated as a basis for fuel for future spacecraft.


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## Dave (Jul 14, 2017)

It is an entirely different matter if we are going to build a space fleet. It is incredibly expensive to take anything into Earth orbit, so mining ore on the Moon for a Moon-based dockyard then becomes an economic prospect.


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 14, 2017)

Purely on the piece that Serendipity posted, it states explicitly that they will mine iron ore. (amongst other things)

How could this even be remotely viable as an economic venture??? (Given that Iron isn't that particularly rare on Earth!)

Edit: in fact I can't think of any metal or ore that would be economically viable to mine on the moon _unless _there was an abundance of it on the moon and a lack of it on the earth. I can't think of any at the mo'

I could accept the argument that such material would be used in interplanetary space or the moon...but there's not many foundries or things really to use it for at the moment.

Possibly this is just a 'proof of concept' set of missions.


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## Vaz (Jul 14, 2017)

I just hope we, as a race, are all prepared for war with the Clangers.

There's no messing about with a Soup Dragon, you know.

v


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## Overread (Jul 14, 2017)

Getting stuff into space is the main issue at present, if you can at least have raw building materials in space to start with that means you've cut a huge and heavy bulk of material that you have to transport up there down. Having and off-world manufacture base is, I think, a cornerstone requirement for a more extensive space program. Further if you can make it work on the Moon you can take that lesson and invest it into harvesting on other moons and asteroids. 

That said 3 years sounds like a very tall order and I agree that this is likely more a proof of concept that an actual investment at this stage. That said a company (or collection of companies) forward thinking with the investment power to head off-world and get off-world raw material processing done first could very well be onto a future goldmine.


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## Mirannan (Jul 18, 2017)

Most of the studies I've seen involve a Moon mine and a mass-driver on the Moon, together with a "construction shack" in some relatively stable place (maybe L4 or L5) to make use of the materials.

The point is that once it's all up there the energy is free or nearly so (maintenance and amortisation are costs!) and the material certainly is. Of course, wages for orbital construction workers and Moon miners would be quite high...

Better treat them well, too. A Lunar mass driver is a strategic weapon, as Heinlein pointed out over a century ago.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 25, 2017)

Mining the Moon makes sense... for inhabitants of the Moon.


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## TheDustyZebra (Jul 25, 2017)

Harrison (Dr. Jack) Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut, is coming here on Saturday to give a lecture, and I bought his book (*Return to the Moon*, 2006) to take along and hopefully get it signed. It just came today, and I've just started it, but he's laying out the case for a threefold venture to mine the moon. He's the only actual scientist (geologist) to walk on the moon, and also spent six years as a US Senator.

"The financial, environmental, and national security carrot for a Return to the Moon consists of access to low-cost lunar helium-3 fusion power. ... Not available in other than research quantities on Earth, this light isotope of ordinary helium reaches the Moon as a component of the solar wind.... Embedded continuously in the lunar dust over almost 4 billion years, concentrations have reached levels that can legitimately be considered of economic interest."

Also of interest,
"By-products of lunar helium-3 production will add significantly to future economic returns as customers for these products develop in space. No such by-products are known that would warrant their return to Earth; however, locations in Earth orbit, on Mars, and elsewhere in deep space constitute potential markets. The earliest available by-products include hydrogen, water, and compounds of nitrogen and carbon. Oxygen can be produced from lunar water. Finally, metallic elements, such as iron, titanium, aluminum, and silicon, can be extracted from mineral and glass components in the lunar regolith (soil)."

But from the (admittedly cursory) article, it sounds like those guys are aiming to bring stuff back to Earth. Hmm. Well, I suppose things may have changed in ten years since the book was written -- and as I say, I'm only in the first chapter so far.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 25, 2017)

TheDustyZebra said:


> Harrison (Dr. Jack) Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut, is coming here on Saturday to give a lecture, and I bought his book (*Return to the Moon*, 2006) to take along and hopefully get it signed. It just came today, and I've just started it, but he's laying out the case for a threefold venture to mine the moon. He's the only actual scientist (geologist) to walk on the moon, and also spent six years as a US Senator.
> 
> "The financial, environmental, and national security carrot for a Return to the Moon consists of access to low-cost lunar helium-3 fusion power. ... Not available in other than research quantities on Earth, this light isotope of ordinary helium reaches the Moon as a component of the solar wind.... Embedded continuously in the lunar dust over almost 4 billion years, concentrations have reached levels that can legitimately be considered of economic interest."
> 
> ...



In the old game _Moonbase_, Helium 3 was the primary bread and butter of the space colony.


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## Cathbad (Jul 25, 2017)

So we aren't even finished raping earth, and we're gonna start in on the moon?


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## Dave (Jul 25, 2017)

Cathbad said:


> So we aren't even finished raping earth, and we're gonna start in on the moon?





> Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him. Drive him back into his jungle liar, for he is the harbinger of death.


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## Danny McG (Jul 25, 2017)

Tsk. Hippies


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## Vertigo (Jul 25, 2017)

TheDustyZebra said:


> Harrison (Dr. Jack) Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut, is coming here on Saturday to give a lecture, and I bought his book (*Return to the Moon*, 2006) to take along and hopefully get it signed. It just came today, and I've just started it, but he's laying out the case for a threefold venture to mine the moon. He's the only actual scientist (geologist) to walk on the moon, and also spent six years as a US Senator.
> 
> "The financial, environmental, and national security carrot for a Return to the Moon consists of access to low-cost lunar helium-3 fusion power. ... Not available in other than research quantities on Earth, this light isotope of ordinary helium reaches the Moon as a component of the solar wind.... Embedded continuously in the lunar dust over almost 4 billion years, concentrations have reached levels that can legitimately be considered of economic interest."
> 
> ...


Interesting; in New Moon Ian McDonald posited Helium-3 as the most financially viable product to mine on the Moon. Maybe there is something to that and I should reserve judgement on the viability of mining the moon for resources to be used on Earth.


Cathbad said:


> So we aren't even finished raping earth, and we're gonna start in on the moon?


I think I can live with that as the moon does not support any life. Better that than trashing a life sustaining biosphere.


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## Cathbad (Jul 25, 2017)

Vertigo said:


> Interesting; in New Moon Ian McDonald posited Helium-3 as the most financially viable product to mine on the Moon. Maybe there is something to that and I should reserve judgement on the viability of mining the moon for resources to be used on Earth.
> 
> I think I can live with that as the moon does not support any life. Better that than trashing a life sustaining biosphere.



Too late!


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## Vertigo (Jul 25, 2017)

Cathbad said:


> Too late!


Well we're certainly getting there, but my point still stands.


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 25, 2017)

Vertigo said:


> Interesting; in New Moon Ian McDonald posited Helium-3 as the most financially viable product to mine on the Moon. Maybe there is something to that and I should reserve judgement on the viability of mining the moon for resources to be used on Earth.



That's if they can get fusion to actually work 

Otherwise it's chewing through vast amounts of lunar rock for nothing!


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## Vertigo (Jul 25, 2017)

Very very true!


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## Ursa major (Jul 25, 2017)

Cathbad said:


> So we aren't even finished raping earth, and we're gonna start in on the moon?


We're going to clean the Moon's surface -- return it to its natural state** -- by removing the Helium-3 that the Sun carelessly dumped there.

(See, we can all play at being a spin doctor. )



** - I'm sure that George Monbiot will be impressed: it's far more ambitious than the reforestation of the Lake District.


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## opuscosmos (Jul 25, 2017)

It'll be big cold corporations sending drones, planting their own flags. I don't think any humans will be heading up there anytime soon. I last read somewhere they were targeting poles probably for ice/water and take it from there.. 3D printing castles on the moon from dust and water.


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 25, 2017)

I suspect the original article is more marketing hype than science fact.


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## Dave (Jul 25, 2017)

Vertigo said:


> I think I can live with that as the moon does not support any life. Better that than trashing a life sustaining biosphere.


Life as we know it, Cap't! The pure energy Helium-3 fusion life-forms would say otherwise.


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## Ursa major (Jul 25, 2017)

Dave said:


> The pure energy Helium-3 fusion life-forms would say otherwise.


As might the shareholders in the alien mining fleet heading towards the Moon based on a favourable survey report (which also stated that, because the Earth was home to primitive life-forms, it should not be subject to mining). They won't be happy either.


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 25, 2017)

Ursa major said:


> As might the shareholders in the alien mining fleet heading towards the Moon based on a favourable survey report (which also stated that, because the Earth was home to primitive life-forms, it should not be subject to mining). They won't be happy either.



Exactly apparently there is quite a lot deep in the Earth's mantle - so if they ripped up the planet they could mine it...

...but I'd guess they'd just hang about space and harvest the solar wind, 'cause that's where the stuff that the moon has comes from. And they'd not need to get their pure hands dirty with mining.


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## Ursa major (Jul 25, 2017)

But they also really like cheese.


That is what the Moon is made of, isn't it...?


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## Enforcer Productions (Jul 25, 2017)

I'll admit, I find it hard to believe that we could mine the moon by 2020 when we have yet to get people on the moon since Apollo 11. And furthermore, what's on the moon that could possibly make it worth as much money as it would cost to send anything up to it's surface?


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## BAYLOR (Aug 3, 2017)

For some reason visions of* Space 1999 *and the 2002  version *The Time Machine *come to mind.


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## Cathbad (Aug 3, 2017)

*Space 1999*:  An explosion sends the moon out of orbit (apparently at FTL speeds) and sends Earth into catastrophic geological events!

Okay, I'm now against the mining of the moon.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 4, 2017)

Cathbad said:


> *Space 1999*:  An explosion sends the moon out of orbit (apparently at FTL speeds) and sends Earth into catastrophic geological events!
> 
> Okay, I'm now against the mining of the moon.



 Mining the moon sounds like a bad idea.


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## Harpo (Oct 18, 2017)

Japan's lunar orbiter discovers 50km cave beneath surface- Nikkei Asian Review


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## Justin Swanton (Oct 18, 2017)

BAYLOR said:


> For some reason visions of* Space 1999 *and the 2002  version *The Time Machine *come to mind.



Moon's the one for this. One of my hard SF all-time favourites.


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## J Riff (Oct 19, 2017)

I can't help wonder how conversations like this will look in a few decades from now. BTw the earth may be flat... it's online, so could be true!!


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