# The Mentalist



## biodroid (Feb 5, 2009)

Currently watching this and only on episode 5 in my country. I like the whole idea of mind manipulation through suggestion and hypnosis. It just goes to show, is John Edwards really a psychic, because this show claims there is no such thing as a psychic, only a master who can read human emotions no matter how small they are. A few elements of Deren Brown are in here too. Very good police show as well and good acting and good storylines too. What do you guys think?


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## Spade (Feb 19, 2009)

I'm enjoying the show. I've seen 10 episodes, I think. It was certainly a surprise hit and is pretty much guaranteed another season.


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## Alexa (Feb 24, 2009)

I watch it from time to time. I'm a bit annoyed of a psychic attached as consultant to the police. 

In my opinion, Psych is more fun.


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## sffhound (Mar 16, 2009)

I really, really like this show, and I'm equally fond of "Lie to me," a series that's kind of similar.


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## HowardZinn (Mar 17, 2009)

I find Pysch a bit too corny.  Mentalist has humor as well as sometimes interesting murder plots.


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## clovis-man (Mar 18, 2009)

I stopped watching it because I thought the hero was just a little too smug and cute. But my wife and granddaughter like it. Maybe because he's smug and cute.


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## RJM Corbet (Jun 10, 2011)

Close a door between yourself and the dog and then think 'walkies' and see what happens ... 's true


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## FireDragon-16 (Jun 11, 2011)

I love this show even though I haven't been able to watch it as much lately due to my work schedule...

I really love the chemistry they've got between the team, they all just work together.


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## reiver33 (Jun 11, 2011)

I caught the two-part season finale and it ended as it should; no cop out (no pun intended).


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## PTeppic (Jun 12, 2011)

Our TV magazine over here described it as a game-changing ending. If I've read the 'net right, it was written and filmed long before knowing whether they'd been approved for a fourth season (which it since has been). Without going into my own theories, is it worth pointing out that "The Mentalist" requires, well, a/the mentalist...!


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## Vladd67 (Jun 20, 2011)

After that ending should be interesting to see how they do the next season.


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## Parson (Jun 21, 2011)

Next season is going to have to start with some kind of legal maneuvering. It is impossible to see Jane not going to prison on the prima facia evidence. I'm also afraid that the stories will lose something without Red John lurking in the background. "Alias" (a show I loved) showed that you couldn't switch everything around and keep the same sort of intensity.


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## PTeppic (Jun 21, 2011)

Did we see that he'd actually died? And was it actually Red John? As for the shooting, depends if they've got CCTV or not: Jane could claim self-defence...?


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## Parson (Jun 21, 2011)

It would be literary suicide to claim other than that he was someone other than Red John. He knew intimate (very intimate) details about Jane's wife and daughter. If red John shared those with anyone else they would be black mail material. As to whether he's dead or not ---- I suppose there is some wiggle room there, but its hard to imagine anyone surviving three point black shots to the chest in any event, and in this case there was no immediate first aid.


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## Vladd67 (Jun 21, 2011)

Can I get the check - please.
Loved that line.


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## PTeppic (Jun 22, 2011)

Parson said:


> It would be literary suicide to claim other than that he was someone other than Red John. He knew intimate (very intimate) details about Jane's wife and daughter. If red John shared those with anyone else they would be black mail material.



Ear-piece. Which, ironically, Jane was also wearing. I don't think it is the case, but it's one theory round the problem.


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## Parson (Jun 22, 2011)

If we are to remain on the same wave length as previous years, my bet would be that Red John had a boss. ---- But for now the more intriguing question is how Jane is going to maintain his freedom.


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## PTeppic (Jun 22, 2011)

What's the normal sentence for murder-one in CA?


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## Vladd67 (Jun 22, 2011)

Parson said:


> If we are to remain on the same wave length as previous years, my bet would be that Red John had a boss. ---- But for now the more intriguing question is how Jane is going to maintain his freedom.



A boss or they are now going to track down his followers.


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## Parson (Jun 23, 2011)

PTeppic said:


> What's the normal sentence for murder-one in CA?



This varies widely. The best answer is "It all depends." If I remember correctly CA does not have the death penalty, so that one's out. But whether it is life in prison, or something less than a decade in prison depends on how hardened the perpetrator is, if there are extenuating circumstances, if the victim in some sense had it coming, etc.

I would judge that Jane would likely be looking at somewhere between 10 and 20 years if convicted. The figure largely depending on how much of who Red John was could be fed to the jury.


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## Perpetual Man (Jun 23, 2011)

Parson said:


> It would be literary suicide to claim other than that he was someone other than Red John. He knew intimate (very intimate) details about Jane's wife and daughter. If red John shared those with anyone else they would be black mail material. As to whether he's dead or not ---- I suppose there is some wiggle room there, but its hard to imagine anyone surviving three point black shots to the chest in any event, and in this case there was no immediate first aid.



Just a way, way out suggestion...

What if there was no-one there. 

What if it was all a delusion on Jane's part. He was sitting there speaking to no-one other than his own imagination (which would no all the details needed) and the reactions of everyone around were not to someone being shot, but someone just firing a gun in a crowded shopping mall?

(It really is way out, but stems from a conversation I had with Mrs Perp., right back at the beginning of season one, when I hypothesised that there Red John might actually be Jane... and I'm desperately trying to hold onto the wild theory as it slips through my fingers like water! )


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## Parson (Jun 23, 2011)

Why do I think "Dallas" when you make that suggestion. --- It was all a dream. 

I would hate to think that, but (sigh!) it is possible. It would give them a bang up (pun intended) cliff hanger, and not change the essential character of the show.


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## Perpetual Man (Jun 23, 2011)

It was more than that I'm desperately trying to remember my theory - I think it was something like this -

Jane always thinks outside the box, and using the skills he picked up as a Mentalist is just a part of it, he is a very intelligent gent to boot as well. He always seems to be one or two steps ahead of everyone. Except Red John.

It led me to think what kind of man must Red John be to be always ahead of Jane almost easily, come to that.

From that I started to wonder whether RJ was a Mentalist too, with similar training to Jane and that was how he stayed ahead of him for so long, manipulated him so easily.

From there I suddenly wondered whether it was possible for Red John to be Jane, of course if there was a schism in Jane's character, a dual personality - one half Jane the other a psychopath named Red John, but although the latter is aware of what is going on Jane does not have a clue.

So he is always trying to track his bogeyman down, but of course he is always going to be one step behind.

As the show went on there was more evidence to the contrary, but I let the idea wander around more for a bit of creative fun than anything else. Seeing how far I could stretch things.

With the end of season Red John was apparently wrapped up in a rather... permanent manner but I still played out the game, especially as the end of the season rather complicates things - Jane shooting an apparently unarmed man, cold bloodily and in a room full of people, as has been stated it's going to be hard to wiggle out of.

So I just brought my idea back into play again - If there was no one there, just a figment of his imagination then the worst Jane had done was to shoot his gun into room of people - still serious, but hardly as bad as murder.

Anyhoo, I know it's all very unlikely, but it's a way of keeping him out of prison... and making him a much darker character.


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## Daisy-Boo (Jun 24, 2011)

I hope it was Red John he killed as I'd like to see an end to the Red John story arc. After three seasons I still don't know why all those people were Red John's acolytes. Apart from bits of cryptic dialogue here and there, why on earth did those people kill others and give up their own lives for Red John? What hold did he have over them? Is he some kind of cult leader?

Maybe I didn't listen closely enough and I missed lots of clues but the whole Red John arc just seemed to be a fuzzy mess. 

I'm much more interested to see how Patrick will cope now that he's killed The Big Bad (if RJ is indeed dead). Patrick has lost the one thing that motivated him to continue living after his family's death. How will he go on living now? How will his team view him? Is there a way they can still work together and if so, will Patrick still want to? This is what I'm looking forward to seeing. I think they have an opportunity to let Patrick move beyond his carefully cultivated persona of the first three seasons. Maybe now we'll get to know Patrick without all his defences up.


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## FireDragon-16 (Jul 1, 2011)

Parson said:


> I suppose there is some wiggle room there, but its hard to imagine anyone surviving three point black shots to the chest in any event, and in this case there was no immediate first aid.


 
It would be possible for him to escape alive if he was wearing some sort of bullet-proof vest or other protection, it would probably hurt like hell but unless he was shot with armor-piercing ammo he could conceivably walk away...

Not that I'm hoping he does but that feels like something one of the creators/producers or someone would come up with in order to keep that sidestory going...


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## Parson (Jul 1, 2011)

However if memory serves he was bleeding from those wounds which would not happen if he had a vest on.


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## FireDragon-16 (Jul 4, 2011)

Parson said:


> However if memory serves he was bleeding from those wounds which would not happen if he had a vest on.


 
That's true, however there are ways to make it look like you're bleeding.

Anyway, I didn't get to see that whole finale so I was just speculating based on what I've seen with other shows.


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## FireDragon-16 (Sep 23, 2011)

Just watched the season premiere...that came way out of left field! 

*SPOILER ALERT: *Highlight in order to read

I can't believe that Red John's still alive! How'd Jane figure it out?! Of course it figures that he'd still be alive because if he's dead then Jane kind of loses his reason for being there but still...


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## Alexa (Sep 25, 2011)

Maybe Red John is a code name, related to the nature of the job. 

I bet my 2c, Patrick killed the guy responsable for the murder of his family, but he still has to find out the person who gave the order.


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## Daisy-Boo (Sep 26, 2011)

Just watched the season premiere and was disappointed. I won't go into details because I don't want to spoil it for others. What I will say is that 1) the resolution of Patrick's arrest and trial struck me as a weak cop-out and 2) I am increasingly tired of Red John.

I don't watch The Mentalist for hard-nosed realism but IMO, the Red John story-arc becomes more and more implausible with time. It seems like half the world now works for Red John. We're now on season 4 and frankly I still don't have a clue as to why all these people are willing to commit the most heinous acts and sacrifice their lives for Red John. What is their motivation? What is his hold over them? Why does he have the world's most stupid name for a serial killer? Enquiring minds need to know.


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## FireDragon-16 (Sep 30, 2011)

Just watched the second episode of the season. Gotta love Jane and how he manipulates everyone without actually physically doing anything 

Even though the ending's a little worisome...


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## Parson (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm not sure you gotta love Jane. He just might be the most manipulative character ever.


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## FireDragon-16 (Sep 30, 2011)

In my opinion that's why you've gotta love him...the way he manipulates people sometimes is pretty funny especially when they take awhile to realized what's going on. Again, that's just my opinion


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## Rosemary (Oct 1, 2011)

An opinion which mirrors my own, FireDragon!

I don't watch much television but the Mentalist is one I would rather not miss.  There's serious detective work combined with Patrick and it works well.

Is he really a Psych though or just extremely observant?

I love how he just wanders off to make his cup of tea, plus I'm rather biased as he's an Australian actor


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## Parson (Oct 1, 2011)

*Rosemary....* I don't like to miss the Mentalist either. It is a great show, and the Jane character is truly unique. I just think that he is extremely manipulative. 

I don't think that there's any doubt that he is just extremely observant and he filters his observations through a deep understanding of human motivation and frailty, which means he draws conclusions that escape mere mortals. But at the same time he is so very damaged which makes his continual quest for "Red John" believable to some degree. 

Part of me wishes that the Red John line would have disappeared with last year's cliff hanger, but I suppose you eliminate Red John from the equation and Jane either starts running some con game, and plays the police for hopeless suckers. Or he just folds up and dies.


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## FireDragon-16 (Oct 2, 2011)

*Rosemary: *I'm not really sure which he is...sometimes I think he is a Psych, but other times I think he just notices things that others tend to either not notice or just dismiss it as not important

*Parson: *While it would be nice if the whole Red John thing could go away, you've got a point--if they get rid of him, there goes Jane's motivation so what would they do next?


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## Perpetual Man (Oct 4, 2011)

Like a couple of others I felt that the cliffhanger was wrapped up just a little too easily (Not the only show to do that this year though so it must be a thin at the moment).

There was a lot to like about the episode, Jane was as much fun as always, but I thought they missed an opportunity. Seeing Jane in prison, if only for an episode would have been fun!

I thought the way he just revealed that he had deduced Red John was still out there was far too easy, and perhaps it might have worked to have kept quiet about that for a while, saving it for a twist later on.

Of course it would still hold with my scatterbrained theory that Jane is Red John.  With his abilities he could easily manipulate people into working for him, it would explain how he just knew that Red John was still out there. Even if he does have a split personality, the good Jane part might just know it instinctively...


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## FireDragon-16 (Oct 4, 2011)

Perpetual Man said:


> Of course it would still hold with my scatterbrained theory that Jane is Red John.  With his abilities he could easily manipulate people into working for him, it would explain how he just knew that Red John was still out there. Even if he does have a split personality, the good Jane part might just know it instinctively...


 
I don't know...the theory that Jane is Red John is a good one, but if he is Red John and it's like a split personality thing, how does it explain why he went after Jane's wife and daughter? Red John did it because Jane egged him on on his tv show...even if it was a split personality, wouldn't he have known to leave them alone?


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## Perpetual Man (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I did say it was a ridiculous idea... but give me a day or two and I'll come up with an explanation.


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## Perpetual Man (Nov 12, 2013)

But I never did.

It seems the question may well be moot and the answer may well be just around the corner. (at last)

According to IMDB next weeks The Mentalist is called The Great Red Dragon, with the following episode called simply Red John. It could well be the storyline conclusion that has been running since the show began. (And the fact the show continues seems to indicate my hairbrained theory is wrong)

Of note, the following episode is called 'My Blue Heaven' which, if I'm not mistaken, is the first episode not to have a 'red' reference in the title.


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## Ursa major (Nov 12, 2013)

Regarding the eighth episode, "Red John"; Wiki states:





> After ten years of searching, Jane finally meets up with Red John, the man who murdered his wife and daughter.


So unless Jane has been studiously avoiding mirrors for the previous five and a half seasons, he isn't Red John.

I'm watching the show on Channel Five (episode three is on tonight), so will be avoiding this thread after November 24th, when episode eight airs in the US.


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## Perpetual Man (Nov 12, 2013)

Ursa major said:


> Regarding the eighth episode, "Red John"; Wiki states:So unless Jane has been studiously avoiding mirrors for the previous five and a half seasons, he isn't Red John.
> 
> I'm watching the show on Channel Five (episode three is on tonight), so will be avoiding this thread after November 24th, when episode eight airs in the US.



IN answer to the long not answered question about his wife - If Jane had two separate personalities, and his wife began to get suspicious then the Red John side might kill them to protect himself.

And Jane meets Red John at last - an episode set inside his head as the two sides of his personality battle it out... Am I stretching this yet?

And like you Ursa I'll have to avoid the thread once the show airs stateside


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