# What is Magic?



## Grimoire (Feb 5, 2006)

Every fantasy book has it, but how do you define it? 

What does 'Magic' mean to you?

It may seem like an odd question, but its something that's been bugging me for a while as I realize that the way I might describe it in one context, say in terms of a specific fictional universe, would not apply in even a similar context.

So, I open the floor to all takers. Write a sentence, a paragraph, a whole doctoral thesis if you want. I'm interested to see what you come up with.


----------



## chrispenycate (Feb 5, 2006)

Magic is anything that happens which is inexplicable by present knowledge and attributable to a sapent cause. Thus, a meteorite is only magical if we assume that it is chucked down by some god or demon (and only questionably so then, since supernatural beings are fairly explicable, if unpredictable). The slow mutation of alchemy into chemistry is an example of the dissolution of magic into solid working scientific principles. Thus, as repeatable experiments advance, magic retreats, but can never entirely disappear, because we can never know everything, and the sterile plateau of pure knowledge is not attractive to the great mass of humanity. Sufficiently advanced technology is not merely indistinguishable from magic, it is magic - capabilities unknown, fear the worst until you discover its limits (early practical experiment " how far can that dragon spit fire? Ah, yes, about that far. So about twice that at all times would seem a reasonable margin. And we won't have to pay the preist for Ugga's funeral)
The world we live in (those of us who haven't already moved to fantasy worlds) still contains a lot of magic, particularly early in the morning. Spiderwebs loaded with dewdrops create thousands of micorainbows, as I walk home after working all night. I'm convinced that, if I brought a teaspoon and dug beneath their ends, they'd be teeny pots of fairy gold, probably guarded by leprecohens. 
Fantasy worlds have a smaller percentage of their population interested in understanding phenomena (and a larger one dedicated to surviving them), so more is magic, the pixies and elves haven't disappeared under the dreaming mounds, various more or less magic bogie men wander around, harvesting children who ignore the traditions, and wizards, black, white and varieties of other hues, work mighty spells by laws of similarity and contiguity, unworried by conservation of matter and momentum. It'll never catch on in Slough.
Magic is the word to contain the indescribable, to explain away the inexplicable.  

Good enough to start the ball rolling, do you think?


----------



## nixie (Feb 5, 2006)

Magic is a mystery that can't be explained away by science.
Someone who controlled the elements by thought alone would be classed as a magic user.
Someone who controlled the elements using machinery would be classed as a scientist.


----------



## kyektulu (Feb 5, 2006)

*I am finding it tough to put my thoughts about magic into words.

The belief in magic has been around for thousands of years and unfortunetly this belief has mostly been lost with the findings of science and the need for a logical answer to everything.

Personally I believe in magic, not the kind of magic which you read about in books (fireballs.. etc) but the magic which can occur in emotion when one is in a beautiful feild watching the stunning dawn on a summers day...


Hope this makes sense to everyone.*


----------



## Azathoth (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, in real life, magic is about control and power; the practicioner is trying to control reality through ritual or a supernatural intermediary. Also, there used to be some degree of social control present in magic. A special caste of people had some special authority over the supernatural (such as the shaman of clan/tribal society, the priest of ancient Egypt, and the brahmin of old India), and typically this special caste upheld the ruling caste. Of course, there isn't much in the way of social control in magic today; the New Ager is often antagonistic towards the ruling caste. But the New Ager is still as interested as his/her ancestors in controlling reality. 

In a fantasy world, however, I think magic takes on a different meaning. In fantasy, magic is about freedom, mystery, excitement, danger, imagination, and creativity.


----------



## Omega (Feb 7, 2006)

Ok just remembered this thread. 

To me magic is warmth, you are doing good, helping others out. 

I haven't had very many "magic" moments in my life where I have really put myself out for anyone, but I feel that this starting to change.


----------



## hermi-nomi (Feb 8, 2006)

I think I would have to agree that magic is about power, to a certain extent. To say magic is about control might prove problematic, but only if we were to discuss magic in a wiccan/pagan understanding. Magic, for me is the power of influencing events. Magic is power of will and how it is used. Magic can be creative and free, but it can be instuitionalised and canonial. It can be written down and learnt, but it can be intuitive. I like the idea of the power of will type of magic. But in fantasy I also like the more classical 'wizardry' i.e. spells and robes and so on...


----------



## Foxtale (Feb 9, 2006)

Personally I have taken magic to be a way of tapping an untapped form of energy (mana). If mass can be turned into energy, then technically that means mass can be turned into mana. Therefore, to get this mana, a magi will need a form of mass to convert. 

In magic prevalent areas/planets/societies/whatnot, it is easier to convert this mass into mana. Air into wind mana, fire into fire mana, etc.

So magic is drawing on the external elements to create an effect. Fire mana can be converted into heat energy, air mana into kinetic energy, whatnot.

That's how I see magic.


----------



## Marky Lazer (Feb 9, 2006)

Magic to me is some kind of energy form that a sorcerer can use to cast spells of all kinds.


----------



## steve12553 (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow, this thread is almost as rough as being asked what does the bible mean.  I suspect there are many legitimate, traditional meanings. I know any technology sufficiently more advanced than out own would be considered magic. For example the European explorers must have seemed like magicians to the native populations of the Americans, Africa, and all the South Pacific islands they landed on. But by definition magic could simply be magic. In other words something outside of physics and chemistry. Or it can be something very special like a magic moment of realization.


----------



## MJRevell (Feb 13, 2006)

Magic is an unexplainable event, for better or worse.


----------



## Cosmo (Feb 13, 2006)

magic for me is a casting of spells through peace of mind


----------



## Cyril (Feb 14, 2006)

What is magic ? In my opinion, it's what we couldn't explain with our present knowledge of how reality works. Thus, I also think that european explorers should appeared at first as magicians to some indigenous peoples.


----------



## TheWhiteLionv1 (Feb 14, 2006)

Magic is a narrative device
the genre has always been criticised for magic...that anything can happen through magic etc.

that it makes the writers somehow lazy...the best writers know how to use it
Feist, Gemmell, Eddings etc and of course Tolkien...


----------



## GOLLUM (Feb 15, 2006)

Trying to place a definition on magic is like trying to contain a raging cyclone with your arms held high. Unless you're a Mage of course.....


----------



## Sibeling (Feb 15, 2006)

Magic is just a set of natural rules that make impossible things work (in fantasy, that is, in reality magic does not exist )


----------



## Saeltari (Mar 7, 2006)

Sibeling said:
			
		

> Magic is just a set of natural rules that make impossible things work (in fantasy, that is, in reality magic does not exist )


Magic does exist! It does! It does! It does! Wake up and watch a sunrise. I have watched them from all over this world and each time no matter where I was, it was magic. Not a sunset, a sunrise. There is really nothing like it.
Magic is abundant in this world, we as humans just tend to shutter our eyes and senses to it anymore.

Edit: on another note that was my 15th post so I should magically be able to use smileys now . . .  .

 WhoooHooo!!!! . . .


----------



## Presea (Mar 7, 2006)

Saeltari said:
			
		

> Magic does exist!Wake up and watch a sunrise. I have watched them from all over this world and each time no matter where I was, it was magic. Not a sunset, a sunrise. There is really nothing like it.


 
Aww, such a romantic!  

Yes, I agree with this.. it is nice to think that magic is in many things around us, yet as we busy ourselves with more practical and material concepts of life, we tend to overlook it. Magic doesn't have to be the mystical-flashy-effects in stories, as said before.


----------



## Sibeling (Mar 8, 2006)

Saeltari said:
			
		

> Magic does exist! It does! It does! It does! Wake up and watch a sunrise. I have watched them from all over this world and each time no matter where I was, it was magic. Not a sunset, a sunrise. There is really nothing like it.


 
I absolutely hate getting up early. If I ever manage to get up as early as sunrise, I simply won't be able to keep my eyes open. And I will have a massive headache the whole day after getting up so early. You call that magic?  

On a more serious note, sunrise is not magic, that is just natural phenomena. It may be beautiful and it may make you feel nice, but there is nothing magical about it.


----------



## Saeltari (Mar 8, 2006)

Sibeling said:
			
		

> I absolutely hate getting up early. If I ever manage to get up as early as sunrise, I simply won't be able to keep my eyes open. And I will have a massive headache the whole day after getting up so early. You call that magic?
> 
> On a more serious note, sunrise is not magic, that is just natural phenomena. It may be beautiful and it may make you feel nice, but there is nothing magical about it.


 
 Aww, my friend there is magic there if you but look for it. You mustn't look with an analytical mind. My words may have confused, I apologize, I didn't mean a sunrise 'is' magic  . Science is great and I enjoy many of its benefits each day , but there is magic in a sunrise. It is only a matter of not focusing on what you know but on what you are in each moment.


----------



## Saeltari (Mar 9, 2006)

Presea said:
			
		

> Aww, such a romantic!
> 
> Yes, I agree with this.. it is nice to think that magic is in many things around us, yet as we busy ourselves with more practical and material concepts of life, we tend to overlook it. Magic doesn't have to be the mystical-flashy-effects in stories, as said before.


 

Me a romantic? Mmm, perhaps . 
Science labels, magic is. Now, don't all the scientists leap up to strangle me,  I like science and am pretty familiar with it. It doesn't, however, preclude magic .


----------



## Druss The Legend (Mar 9, 2006)

magic is a force of power through the mind


----------



## Saeltari (Mar 9, 2006)

A person could almost make the case that science is only magic with known rules. . .


----------



## Glyptus (Mar 12, 2006)

I once sat down in the driver's seat of my friend's car.  It was parked.  There was no key in the ignition, but I knew from experience that certain cars could be started by simply turning the carriage where the key goes.  So I turned the key carriage, and the car started up.  

My friend was astonished that I'd started his car without the key.  "How did you do that?" he asked.  I replied, "I just turned the carriage.  Some cars can be started up like that."  "I know," he said, "but not mine!"  He went on to explain, in mechanical detail, how this works with some ignition systems, and why it couldn't possibly work in the case of his ignition.    

So then, I turned the carriage back, and the engine stopped.  I tried again to start it up the same way, but it didn't work.  I tried several times, but the engine wouldn't start again.  

Why, I wondered?  I think it was because, the first time I did it, I had absolutely no doubt that it would work.  And that's why it did.  

Magic?


----------



## jude1972 (Mar 29, 2006)

Magic can never be explained or it would cease to be.Magic in the real world, for me, is the love of my family and getting completely lost in a book, film or person..........best magic there is


----------



## Foxtale (Mar 29, 2006)

MJRevell said:
			
		

> Magic is an unexplainable event, for better or worse.


So amino acids and proteins in early Earth's history turning into RNA then DNA is magic?


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (Mar 30, 2006)

Historically, magic is a set of assumptions about how the world is made and how things happen -- which the magician studies in order to be able to manipulate them.  Magic was never about performing "the impossible" but about uncovering (or exploiting) obscure natural laws -- for which reason, magic and science were inextricably mixed through most of human history.

Some of the assumptions that have governed magical thinking are:

That we share the world with other, non-human, intelligences, and that it is possible to communicate with them.  They may be super-human, sub-human, or simply extra-human, but whichever they are, their capacities are different from our own.  They may or may not take an interest in human affairs -- if not, there are ways of gaining their interest and enlisting their assistance.  However, there is always an element of danger in treating with these intelligences, because their interest once gained can easily turn malign.  

That objects which share even the most superficial similarities are somehow connected.  That things which have been in contact in the past maintain something of their former relationship even at a distance.  That the part continues to share an identity with the whole.  That mimicking something can cause it to happen.  (These are the basic rules of sympathetic magic.)

That a word and the thing it describes share a degree of identity.  Therefore, words are powerful, especially names.  That numbers and geometry have power, as do geometric figures and other symbols.  When words, numbers, and symbols are combined in the right way, remarkable things may be accomplished.

That there are natural sympathies and antipathies between apparently unrelated things. A knowledge of these sympathies and antipathies can be used to form favorable or unfavorable combinations or conjunctions.  This knowledge is particularly useful in creating charms and talismans.

That one substance can be transformed into another.  That it is possible for one form of life to be transformed (willingly or unwillingly) into another -- men into beasts, beasts into men, etc.

That a trained and powerful will can overpower a weaker will by sheer mental force.  That such a will may also exert an influence over inanimate objects.

That the world is made up of endlessly repeated patterns, geometries, and numerical relationships, and as each part reflects, in some way, the whole, therefore seemingly random events or conjunctions (if rightly interpreted) can be used to predict future events.

There are a lot more assumptions, but my mind is blanking on them just at the moment.


----------



## steve12553 (Mar 30, 2006)

Foxtale said:
			
		

> So amino acids and proteins in early Earth's history turning into RNA then DNA is magic?


 
Maybe. Some people have said that there is a reason or force behind the incredible string of events that causes things to happen as they do. Life, the universe and everything that happens in it (to paraphrase Douglas Adams). Erik Van Daaniken said that the only word in the English language is God. George Lucas called it "The Force". Magic is also a word for it. That, of course, is not the only  meaning of the word but it is surely one.


----------



## GrownUp (Mar 30, 2006)

Magic, I reckon, is something otherwise unlikely or inexplicable that is invoked with a _spell_.

For example, love isn't magic except metaphorically.

Unless, of course, it is invoked with a love spell.


----------



## Nokia (Mar 31, 2006)

It always bugs me slightly when magic is used in a book cos I just want an explanation of how it can exist. I was pleasantly satisfied when reading Chris Paolini's works though.


----------



## hermi-nomi (Mar 31, 2006)

This detracts from the topic a little, but wouldn't explaining how magic can exist in a given world detract from it existing in a given world? The only way I can see an explanation of magic in a story working is if the story revolves around the iontroduction of magic into a world (There is a book I've heard of where the premise is exactly that ~ does anyone know what I'm talking about?)


----------



## GrownUp (Mar 31, 2006)

hermi-nomi said:
			
		

> This detracts from the topic a little, but wouldn't explaining how magic can exist in a given world detract from it existing in a given world? The only way I can see an explanation of magic in a story working is if the story revolves around the iontroduction of magic into a world (There is a book I've heard of where the premise is exactly that ~ does anyone know what I'm talking about?)


 
I don't know if it's exactly what you mean, but in Garth Nix's Abhorsen series there are two worlds which border each other, and at the edges magic still works a little way into a generally non-magical world and technology works a little way into the other, magical, world; a little way and no further.


----------



## Aes (Mar 31, 2006)

To me as a person in the real world, "magic" is any unknown phenomenon that cannot be explained by conventional scientific means.  Throughout the ages, man has attributed things that he cannot fully understand himself as something either magical or spiritual in nature, and they remain so until they are proven otherwise by scientific means.  Even then, that isn't always good enough for some people...

However, for the purposes of a story, "magic" is whatever the writer wants it to be, simple as that.



			
				hermi-nomi said:
			
		

> This detracts from the topic a little, but wouldn't explaining how magic can exist in a given world detract from it existing in a given world? The only way I can see an explanation of magic in a story working is if the story revolves around the iontroduction of magic into a world (There is a book I've heard of where the premise is exactly that ~ does anyone know what I'm talking about?)


 Not necessarily.  In one story (anime, actually, and if I've followed it correctly) 'magic' is actually the result of a glitch and manipulating aspects of the artificially-created enviornment that the story takes place in.  Explaining it like that actually adds to the story, if you think about it.


----------



## Pyan (Apr 1, 2006)

*Clarke's Third Law:*

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Conversely:

*Elliott's First Law*

"Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

If you can't work out how it was done, it's probably magic. If you can, and you can reproduce it, it's probably science.


----------



## Soraya (Apr 6, 2006)

thats a pretty good explanation. Saturday i'm going to a magic show, some international ppl called the Pendragons. i realized i should go because i have become so cynical and the world today is so blatantly realistic and hard, we rely mostly on science, that a bit of magic and lore might be welcome.


----------



## Jives (Apr 6, 2006)

pyanfaruk said:
			
		

> *Clarke's Third Law:*
> 
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."



That's the quote that came to my mind when I read this thread.  it reminds me of the personal force fields in the "Foundation" series and the reaction to them that the lesser-developed worlds had.

But then again, I have some experience with things that I'll share at a later date that can't be defined by science.  And believe me, I'm a mathematician and I have an extensive science background and if I can't explain them...

They must be magic.

What about when the phone rings and you already know who it is...is that magic?

Or how about when you are humming a tune and you turn on the radio and the song is on it...at the exact place you were in the song.  Is that magic?


----------



## An8el (Apr 20, 2006)

I liked Teresa's comprehensive definition above.

I'm noticing how using an explanation of "magic" as a reason for something is a wish or hope for mystery - or a positive explanation for something you would like to happen again and again and perhaps gain the power to evoke at will. 

I was relating a story about an owl who pulled hairs from my head while hovering three feet above me to a scientist friend while hiking. After the story and pretty much on cue, just ahead flies this huge owl just past us, quite close. My scientist friend says to me, "You're really a witch, aren't you?"

Ever notice how, when people do not have an explanation for something or someone's motives, people tend to assign the worst explanation?  I'm not sure why this is, but it's very common.
It seems that magic is the other, more positive explanation to that which can't be explained, or for some people even imagined.


----------



## Sharukem (Nov 7, 2006)

magic yes is very hard to describe. But in many other books magic is always something new. but in reality magic is meant for good and to help out others and mother nature but people tend to use it for bad by harmong others, mother nature and anything else you can think of.


----------



## Nesacat (Nov 7, 2006)

Magic for me is a place where dreams and the imagination thrive. It offers inspiration to humanity and gives us a word to call all that which cannot be explained, is marvelous and fills us with a sense of wonder at the vast creativity of the universe. It is perhaps a state of mind or being. Maybe even a way of life.


----------



## Talysia (Nov 7, 2006)

I've read a lot of Masamune Shirow's work, (mostly graphic novels) and some of the stories he creates put forth the idea that science is the new black magic.  In the future, maybe it will be possible to create people with powers that could be classed as magic, even though they would be made using science.  I don't think even that could be classed as true magic, though, despite its appearance.
Personally speaking, I don't think magic should be explained.  There are lots of things that could be considered as magic, some subtle, and some strong, depending on your definition, but I'd like to think that there should always be something in the universe that cannot be explained.


----------



## Saltheart (Nov 7, 2006)

Magic, to me, is a precursor to protoscience. It is assigned to what men do not understand, and they try to study natural philosophy to understand how to manipulate and understand the natural world. It is a precursor to Alchemy and Natural Philosophy.

Saaltaei, are you trying to say that beauty is magic?


----------



## The Pelagic Argosy (Nov 7, 2006)

Having just come off the "Is fantasy really sci fi" thread...

Maybe, once you explain how the "magic" in your story works, you have officially written a science fiction story, rather than a fantasy story.

So, if you want to write a fantasy story, you deliberately leave the explanation out because you want to retain that sense of mystery and power for your readers that feels "magical" and is one of the pleasures of choosing fantasy over science fiction.  (Or maybe you left out the explanation because you don't want to bother with one.)


----------

