# Problem: Computer Hanging.



## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Strange two technical questions from me in the same day. Anyway:

My home PC.

Works fine and have not had any serious problems with it.

Upgraded to Windows 8 the end of last year. No problem.

Then on Saturday I was using it as normal and with no warning the mouse cursor froze.

My first reaction was that the batteries had gone, so I replaced them. Remained frozen. A quick play showed that the keyboard was out as well, and the reset switch was non-functional.

I turned it off at the mains. Gave it a few minutes. Turned on. Dead.

Left it a few hours. Turned it on.

Started normally.

After ten minutes it froze again.

Ran through everything as above.

When it started a few hours later I removed all recent updates, turned off automatic updating and then stripped the base unit down, giving it a good clean inside, checking that all the fans were working - they were - turned it on again.

It seemed to work okay then, until this morning I plugged a USB Stick in and it all happened again. This time the restart worked but it was all frozen when it finished booting.

Any ideas?

Could the USB on the case be the problem? Is it over heating?

Could it be the mouse? (I will try another one at some point, but it is kind of awkward to use a wired one)

Should I just buy a new case?


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## alchemist (Jul 3, 2013)

Any man who can clean the inside of a computer knows more than me, but have you scanned for viruses?


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Alc.

Yeah I scanned for viruses, but you reminded me I had not checked for Malware (I started to after the virus scan but would you believe it the computer froze)


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## Abernovo (Jul 3, 2013)

I have a similar problem, Perp, but due to the age of my laptop.

Have you checked to see if any of the drivers need updating?
That's part of the problem with mine - driver issues - but I can't update due to age and incompatibility (poor tech support from Toshiba). Sorry if you've already tried this. As per alc's comment, you clearly know more about computer workings than I do 

Hope it clears up soon.


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## iansales (Jul 3, 2013)

See what processes are running when it works normally. It may be some program grabbing all the RAM or processor cycles.


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## Foxbat (Jul 3, 2013)

I wonder if it could be your graphics card overheating? I've had this before and the machine used to freeze like you describe. The fact that it seems to be after a period of time might indicate 'thermal breakdown'.

A build up of dust inside could cause this so cleaning might be a good option.


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Guys.

Aber - drivers is a good idea, if it is something outside of Microsoft (in this case the mouse) it might be that.

Ian - Something else I did not think about, thanks.


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Foxbat said:


> I wonder if it could be your graphics card overheating? I've had this before and the machine used to freeze like you describe.
> 
> A build up of dust inside could cause this so cleaning might be a good option.



The overheating is something I have considered, and am hoping it isn't! If some of the easier options don't sort the problem out I'm going to have to look at it.

Of course removing the card and cleaning is a lot easier (and cheaper) than buying a new one.


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## Lenny (Jul 3, 2013)

To test the overheating theory, you can run HWMonitor in the background - it reports all of the data collected by the sensors on the motherboard, and in the individual components (voltages, temperatures, fan speeds, etc).

Similar to Ian's idea, you can also run the "Performance" tab of the Windows Task Manager in the background.

As long as you keep both windows visible, then when the computer freezes you'll be able to see everything that was happening at that time (the one upside to freezing!) - component temperature, CPU load, and memory usage.

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Quick way to rule out a problem with the USB port: keep trying it (and if you have multiple ports, try them all). Plug the USB drive in, pull it out, repeat. If you can, try it when the computer is in different states: right after boot; a few hours after boot; whilst the computer is idling; whilst the computer is under heavy load.

If the freezing doesn't reoccur, then your ports are likely fine. If the computer does freeze, make a note of what the state was.

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Software thoughts - had you recently installed anything new before the freezes started (New drivers, a windows update, a new program, etc.)?

If yes, you can try uninstalling what you had installed and see if performance improves. Alternatively, you could try a System Restore to a point before the changes.

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The fact that time passes before it freezes (and that it freezes almost immediately after being rebooted) does suggest overheating, but I'd be surprised if it is the graphics card (however, don't rule it out. Problems with different components can often manifest in the same way... which is very annoying).

My initial thought is that, if it's not software related, then it's a RAM problem, simply because most of the times I've seen random freezing on computers the problem was with the RAM. That said, it could also be a problem with the CPU overheating, a HDD dying, or even just a bad cable connecting the HDD to the motherboard.

---

Try to rule out any software problems before turning to the hardware.


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## mosaix (Jul 3, 2013)

iansales said:


> See what processes are running when it works normally. It may be some program grabbing all the RAM or processor cycles.



This is a good starting point.

Don't use Windows 8, I use XP but here's what I'd do if it was my computer (translate to Windows 8 if possible):

1) Load Windows Task Manager
2) Choose 'processes'
3) Click 'CPU', this sequences the display by processor demand.

This may cause some irritation as Task Manager will display in front of anything else on the screen but you can move it and shrink it so it doesn't irritate too much.

Task Manager runs with high priority so it may continue to run when the system freezes if not it will at least show the process that had the highest demand on the system when it froze. Then I'd search around on the internet for freezing problems associated with the process.

One thing that jumped out at me, Perp, was your system freezing when you inserted the USB stick. I think that's something you could search for first.


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## Dozmonic (Jul 3, 2013)

Core Temp will monitor your CPU temperature. If it's hitting 80+ then you've really got issues. It should be running 50-60 perferably, depending on CPU type and what cooling you have.

I use a specific program for my graphics card, so I can't recommend it as it probably won't work with yours. But you will want to check that too. If you are spiking high in temperate you really want to clean out those fans on your power supply, any on your case and preferably any on your graphics card.

Edit: Use what Lenny suggests, it'll measure CPU and graphics


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks guys all very helpful and I'll try 'em tonight if there is the time.

Fortunately I can work off the tablet or even the kindle in the meantime


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## Pyan (Jul 3, 2013)

I had this with my old computer - turned out that the thermal paste stuff between the CPU and its heat-sink had become degraded with age, and the heat wasn't passing out of the CPU fast enough to stop it freezing. (That's a 30-word summing up of what local friendly repair shop took 200+ words to say, BTW) He said the way to test it is to try to twist the CPU on its base (very gently!) and if it moves at *all*, it needs re-seated with new paste.


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Pyan, that's something else to try.

If none of the above work there may well be a specific, I believe technical term that applies to my PC...


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## Lenny (Jul 3, 2013)

Heh. Reminds me of the very first thing my very first Computing teacher taught me: "The difference between hardware and software is that hardware is the stuff you can kick".


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Lenny said:


> Heh. Reminds me of the very first thing my very first Computing teacher taught me: "The difference between hardware and software is that hardware is the stuff you can kick".



I like that. It should be in my office above the computer


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 3, 2013)

Right the computer is running right now (I'm typing on it) and it seems to be okay/running fine.

The core temperature is about 42 and it tells me the shut down point is 99 (I think) but nothing is changing so that should be all well and good.

I've also just realised that the mouse USB connector is in the same set as the one I plugged the USB card in, so that might have a bearing. (I moved it)

I'm now going to plug the USB card in...

And nothing has happened.

I'll plug the mouse USB back into the other socket.

And nothing happens.

So unless it's just grumpier in the morning I can rule out software and temperature at this stage, which means stripping it down over the weekend.

Sigh.

Just noticed on the HWMonitor that in the temperature section there are three items:
TMPIN0
TMPIN1
TMPIN2

The first two are running at 41 degrees

The third at 128 degrees.

A lot of online sites seem to state this is a common problem with HWmonitor and can be ignored - ie if your PC was running that hot you would know.

But just thought I'd mention it and see any feedback.

Might just buy myself a nice new case anyway.


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## J Riff (Jul 4, 2013)

HWMon works good, tx for that link Lenny. Speccy is also good freeware. Re-pasting the CPU is a good idea... but what is yer PC? A laptop can be a lot of work and screws. Have you tried changing out ram stix? Run windows memory diagnostic and other stuff like SFC and see what happens.


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## Foxbat (Jul 4, 2013)

Just wondering if it is a voltage feed problem. If I remember correctly, USB runs on about 4.8 volts. Perhaps cabling, connection  or power supply problem - or could be an emerging fault on the motherboard.

Just thinking out loud


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 4, 2013)

J Riff it's a desktop (well it's an upright and big, so it won't quite fit on a desktop but you know...)

Foxbat, thinking out loud is good... you never know when you might mumble a solution.

After my play last night I'm probably going to have to take it apart and get my hands dirty. It's just finding the time to do it. When you have a 4 1/2 year old who wants to 'help' and a one year old who thinks that there is not enough inside the box and needs more, like chocolate cake for example. My window to tinker is limited until bedtime.

All that being said, since last night and for no apparent reason (touches wood) it seems to be going okay.


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 4, 2013)

Just before I turned the PC off this morning, I noticed that it was requesting new drivers to be installed for the mouse. They were up to date, but I switched USB sockets, and it tried to reinstall them.

Ever since then, with me not reinstalling the computer continued to work without hanging. It might have been the problem, although I am not convinced.

I've ordered a new case (the old one was nice and sturdy, and housed quite a few different sets of workings and was beginning to show its age) and as I transfer the mainboard across I can give it all a clean and all the other little things suggested and see how it goes.

It'll also look like a new computer... 

There will be a new mouse too.


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 10, 2013)

Final update: I'm pleased to report that the Perp Computer, main PC is now up and running again.

It took a bit longer and a lot more money to get sorted, including a new case, motherboard and processor, not to mention some new cooling fans (and being sold the wrong processor for the motherboard - although to be fair it looked as though they should have been compatible from what was written on the boxes).

So, I now have the PC, a laptop I refurbished while I was waiting for bits and pieces for the PC, a tablet, my Kindle Fire and, just in case I've got a little Raspberry Pi to play around with.

So I can't ever complain about not being able to access the internet in future!

(Oh, there's the phone as well...)


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