# Empire of the Ants.



## dustinzgirl (May 23, 2009)

You know, since all our media is so caught up in EOW scenerios, here's one that is actually scientifically validated.

Frakkin' ants, man. Frakkin' ants.

First off, there is a 3600 mile long collection of cooperative Argentine ants in Europe. Thats right, dudes. These is a collective of thousands of seperate hives that work together. Clemson Sandhill REC - World's largest ant colony found in Europe

That should scare you because this is the first time in bug science history that different colonies have cooperated on such a massive scale. 

Now if that doesn't scare you, the fire ant is becoming more resilient and adaptable to pesticides, and while not the same as the argentine ants, still pretty dang creepy. This article is from biomed journal, so I can't post the article but can post the abstract:

Ants have been widely used as bioindicators for various terrestrial monitoring and assessment programs but are seldom considered in evaluation of nontarget pesticide effect. Much chemical assessment has been biased toward laboratory and bioassay testing for control of specific pest ant species. Several field studies that did explore the nontarget impacts of pesticides on ants have reported contradictory findings. To address the impact of chemical applications on ants, we tested the response of epigeal ant assemblages and community structure to three pesticide gradients (cumulative International Organization for Biological and Integrated Control toxicity rating, chlorpyrifos use rate, and sulfur use rate) in 19 vineyards. Ordination analyses using nonmetric multidimensional scaling detected community structures at species and genus levels, but the structures were not explained by any pesticide variables. There was no consistent pattern in species and genus percentage complementarities and ant assemblages along pesticide gradients. In contrast, ant community structure was influenced by the presence of shelterbelts near the sampling area. Reasons for the resilience of ants to pesticides are given and assessment at the colony level instead of workers abundance is suggested. The presence of Linepithema humile (Mayr) is emphasized *2007*: Chong Chee Seng; Hoffmann Ary A; Thomson Linda J
*Commercial agrochemical applications in vineyards do not influence ant communities.*
  Environmental entomology 2007;36(6):1374-83.

But we don't have anything to worry about because ants don't attack people, right?

WRONG.

According too Fire Ants Can Attack Humans In Homes Or Health Care Facilities

Fire ants attack people who disturb their ant mounds, but they will also attack humans indoors. The September 21, 1999, issue of Annals of Internal Medicine carries two case reports of fire ant attacks in two Mississippi nursing homes. Two elderly patients were found covered with ants, with ant trails leading from the floor to their beds. One died five days after the attack, the other 13 months later. Both facilities had been treated by pest control services in the previous days.

Now, it is also important to understand that ants are very social creatures. Which mean they evolve as fast, mabye even faster, than humans. Ants hint at how social species evolve - new species can arise from species with different social behaviors living in close proximity to one another - Biology - Brief Article | Science News | Find Articles at BNET
New findings now support a controversial version of that model stating that different social behaviors in groups of a social species, such as ants, living close together may also give rise to new species. D. DeWayne Shoemaker of the University of Rochester (N.Y.) and Kenneth G. Ross of the University of Georgia in Athens describe the study in the Oct. 17 Nature.

And our only hope of salvation: The lizard. Science Centric | News | Native lizards evolve to escape attacks by fire ants

Penn State Assistant Professor of Biology Tracy Langkilde has shown that native fence lizards in the southeastern United States are adapting to potentially fatal invasive fire-ant attacks by developing behaviours that enable them to escape from the ants, as well as by developing longer hind legs, which can increase the effectiveness of this behaviour.

HG Wells FTW.


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## Dave (May 24, 2009)

I think you've watched too much _X-Files_ and too many B movies.


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## dustinzgirl (May 24, 2009)

Dave said:


> I think you've watched too much _X-Files_ and too many B movies.



Hey! Don't be calling no HG Wells inspired movies B-rated! Thats B-lasphemous!



But, I'm totally serious people!

And yeah, I actually get told that a lot.


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## Pyan (May 24, 2009)

dg said:
			
		

> And our only hope of salvation: The lizard.



Not your only hope, Dusty, you'll be relieved to know:

Parasitic flies turn fire ants into zombies


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## dustinzgirl (May 24, 2009)

pyan said:


> Not your only hope, Dusty, you'll be relieved to know:
> 
> Parasitic flies turn fire ants into zombies



Zombie ants! 

Some how, I do not find that too comforting!


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## Rodders (May 24, 2009)

You've watched phase IV too many times i think.


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## dustinzgirl (May 24, 2009)

Rodders said:


> You've watched phase IV too many times i think.



Actually I have no idea what that is. 

Everything I posted is supported by scientific evidence and is real.


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## brsrkrkomdy (May 24, 2009)

dustinzgirl said:


> Actually I have no idea what that is.
> 
> Everything I posted is supported by scientific evidence and is real.


 
*I dare say the lady doth protest too much.  "Phase IV" is a '70s science fiction movie about mutant ants taking over the world.  And it centers around two entemologists trying to figure ways to combat them before they evolve into something far more serious.  Besides H.G. Wells, there's Frank Herbert's The Green Brain, and Hellstrom's Hive.  And you wanna get serious scientifically, there's an old Oscar winning documentary called "The Hellstrom Chronicles." *


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## dustinzgirl (May 24, 2009)

brsrkrkomdy said:


> *I dare say the lady doth protest too much.  "Phase IV" is a '70s science fiction movie about mutant ants taking over the world.  And it centers around two entemologists trying to figure ways to combat them before they evolve into something far more serious.  Besides H.G. Wells, there's Frank Herbert's The Green Brain, and Hellstrom's Hive.  And you wanna get serious scientifically, there's an old Oscar winning documentary called "The Hellstrom Chronicles." *



Well, I only really saw Empire of the Ants and one called It Happened at Lakewood Cottage or something like that. So I'm not like, a killer ant movie buff.

However, it has been brought to my attention that zombie ants are not the ones we should fear.

Zombie Spiders will eat the zombie ants, then come for us, the next logical choice.


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## zachariah (May 24, 2009)

I, for one, welcome our new Ant overlords.


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## dustinzgirl (May 24, 2009)

zachariah said:


> I, for one, welcome our new Ant overlords.



Ha ha ha!


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## skeptical (May 25, 2009)

Ants can suffer from infectious diseases, though less than most other animals - sometimes fungal, or bacterial and sometimes viruses.   The thing is that, the higher the number of ants, the more likely an ant plague will burn through the colonies.  Anti diseases can also be used as biological controls.
ARS: Fire Ant Disease


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## ManTimeForgot (May 25, 2009)

Its a good thing that the only species of Ant that allows neighboring colonies to work together is the Argentine variety and that Argentine ants and Fire ants kill each other on sight...  (southern US is practically a war zone for those two)

MTF


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## zachariah (May 25, 2009)

Yup, they're the only species so far discovered to systematically wage war against each other. They build cities, they farm other creatures for food...Really, we've more in common with Ants than we do with Chimps.


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## thesoothsayer (May 25, 2009)

ManTimeForgot said:


> Its a good thing that the only species of Ant that allows neighboring colonies to work together is the Argentine variety and that Argentine ants and Fire ants kill each other on sight...  (southern US is practically a war zone for those two)
> 
> MTF



Only until a half-breed Argentine/Fire ant appears and unites all of them under 1 colony. Then dustinzgirl's initial fears will come true.


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## Saeltari (May 25, 2009)

thesoothsayer said:


> Only until a half-breed Argentine/Fire ant appears and unites all of them under 1 colony. Then dustinzgirl's initial fears will come true.


 
The Ant Khan. ha! 

Thanks DG, that was pretty interesting!


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## zachariah (May 25, 2009)

If you like that, you're gonna love this.


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## reiver33 (May 27, 2009)

One Ant! One Hive! One Queen!


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## reiver33 (May 27, 2009)

Actually, I'll be OK when the zombie ants attack as I'll be able to count on support from the giant mutant lobsters. I was waiting for a but outside a fishmonger and noticed they had a live lobster in the window; I looked at the lobster, the lobster looked at me - then waved its stalks. I went in, bought it, got a bus down to the shore and released it into the tidal estuary, which should have been salty enough. I've done this 3 times over the years and then realised I'd been releasing them  just along the coast from the local nuclear power station with its warm water out-flow that attracts all manner of marine life.

So by now I estimate they will be at least 20 feet long with enough offspring to mount an amphibious assault...


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## HoopyFrood (Jul 2, 2009)

Dusty might be onto something...


Ants unite!

BBC - Earth News - Ant mega-colony takes over world


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## thesoothsayer (Jul 2, 2009)

HoopyFrood said:


> Dusty might be onto something...
> 
> 
> Ants unite!
> ...



Haha. Saw this article and immediately thought of this thread.


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## Vladd67 (Jul 6, 2009)

Another version of the zombie ants
Brain-Controlling Flies to Triumph Over Alien Ants?


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## Rinman (Jul 6, 2009)

I say this would be an interesting story to write about...just brought an interesting idea to my head...


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## Scifi fan (Jul 7, 2009)

I've always found biology to be fascinating. 

Can't we poison the ants by giving them food laced with rat poison? That used to be the standard way of killing ants.


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 7, 2009)

Scifi fan said:


> I've always found biology to be fascinating.
> 
> Can't we poison the ants by giving them food laced with rat poison? That used to be the standard way of killing ants.



They adapted.


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## Rinman (Jul 7, 2009)

Howsa bout something like, (the first part of this being actual fact) astronomers found canals on mars thus the possibility of water being or have been on the planet now or before (end fact part) but the actual reason for the the canals is the planet is a giant ant colony and all the living organisms are deep within the planet where it's warmer!! Bahaha I'm a genius!!

Ahem...


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## zaelyel (Jul 7, 2009)

*respectful silence*


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## Rinman (Jul 7, 2009)

What's that supposed to mean?


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## ktabic (Jul 7, 2009)

SciFi said:


> Can't we poison the ants by giving them food laced with rat poison? That used to be the standard way of killing ants.





dustinzgirl said:


> They adapted.



Always the problem with fast breeding species, if you don't get them all the first time, the survivors tend to evolve immunity to what you just tried. 
Take rat poison. There are loads of different types, and in some areas, the rats are immune to most of them. 
If you don't wipe the ants out properly the same applies to ants (I only used rats because they are better studied for this effect, there are several reports I've seen where ants are immune to the standard poisons to.)


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## Rinman (Jul 7, 2009)

ktabic said:


> Always the problem with fast breeding species, if you don't get them all the first time, the survivors tend to evolve immunity to what you just tried.
> Take rat poison. There are loads of different types, and in some areas, the rats are immune to most of them.
> If you don't wipe the ants out properly the same applies to ants (I only used rats because they are better studied for this effect, there are several reports I've seen where ants are immune to the standard poisons to.)


 
Hehehe...thought I'd throw this in to twist your minds...one of the medications I take called Coumadin (Also known as Warfarin which is the more medicalish name) is a rat poison. So yeah, I take rat poison everyday, and I have to take it as it's a blood thinner as I have heart disease...woo rat poison...LOL...


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## ktabic (Jul 7, 2009)

Yeah, Warfarin was one of the first rat poisons available. It's not used as a rat poison much nowadays - to many rats are immune to it now.


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## Rinman (Jul 7, 2009)

Aww you're no fun...


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## chrispenycate (Jul 8, 2009)

Actually, you don't become immune to Warfarin (which I take too, under the name "Sintrom"), you merely develop a higher tolerance. And the poison goes on to kill other species.

But shorter generations an large numbers off offspring intensify the effect. I don't know whether social insects aren't slower than some small mammals, but ordinary insects, like mosquitos, can be quite a lot faster (particularly r strategists) while even smaller organisms, like bacteria, can really use the phenomenon; hence populations "learning" about antibiotics.


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## Rinman (Jul 8, 2009)

So essentially my thoughts that since I came out of my heart surgery and using Tylenol in the hospital and out of the hospital since June 10th of this year (Using two regular Tylenols twice a day) and the effects having little to none - and if they do have an effect, it lasts for a short period of time, could that possibly mean I'm becoming "immune" to it?


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 8, 2009)

You can develop a tolerance to tylenol, asprin, ibuprofen, antibiotics, narcotics, ect. Basically anything, including poisons like cyanide if ingested in small doses over long periods of time. Talk to your doctor about taking more tylenol or alternating tylenol with ibuprofen.


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## Rinman (Jul 8, 2009)

I don't believe I can take ibuprofen because I believe it's a blood thinner, nonetheless, I think we should get back on topic slightly before we get shut down on this. Yeah I'm at fault for this too.


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## Pyan (Jul 8, 2009)

Rinman said:


> I think we should get back on topic slightly before we get shut down on this.



I think you think correctly....


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## chrispenycate (Jul 8, 2009)

Rinman said:


> I don't believe I can take ibuprofen because I believe it's a blood thinner, nonetheless, I think we should get back on topic slightly before we get shut down on this. Yeah I'm at fault for this too.



Oh, don't worry about that. I'm moderating, and enjoying it, as long as we don't start flaming each other. 

Although I don't know how many ants actually from blood pressure problems…


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## Rinman (Jul 8, 2009)

Yay I beat a moderator!! So you know I know correctly haha!!

But back on page two, I posted:



			
				Me said:
			
		

> Howsa bout something like, (the first part of this being actual fact) astronomers found canals on mars thus the possibility of water being or have been on the planet now or before (end fact part) but the actual reason for the the canals is the planet is a giant ant colony and all the living organisms are deep within the planet where it's warmer!! Bahaha I'm a genius!!


 
And then zaylyel posted:



> *respectful silence*


 
Followed by me once again: 



> What's that supposed to mean?


 
With no answer...someone possibly answer that? It was just an idea I came up with. Yeah it was random, but slight possibility unlike my odd random thought crossing my mind of Arnold Schwarzenegger being the next Indiana Jones lol...


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 8, 2009)

chrispenycate said:


> Oh, don't worry about that. I'm moderating, and enjoying it, as long as we don't start flaming each other.
> 
> Although I don't know how many ants actually from blood pressure problems…



/me Flamethrowers Chrispy.

There was an ant on you. I think it was controlling your brain.


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## chrispenycate (Jul 8, 2009)

> Howsa bout something like, (the first part of this being actual fact) astronomers found canals on mars thus the possibility of water being or have been on the planet now or before (end fact part) but the actual reason for the the canals is the planet is a giant ant colony and all the living organisms are deep within the planet where it's warmer!! Bahaha I'm a genius!!



Firstly "canals" is an incorrect translation from the Italian. That doesn't effect your argument at all, since there is evidence of liquid water sometime in mars' past, but it's the sort of detail a pedant revels in. Then, there is no evidence of remaining vulcanism on Mars, so 'underground' wouldn't necessarily be any warmer than the surface.

But an ants' nest generates heat. Unfortunately it can't invent energy; to grow food to nourish them they rely on the sunlight, which, if it had been powerful enough to heat the underground cavity would have heated the surface; besides, shipping the sunlight underground (quartz tubes?) to where the plants would be grown in the warm would involve preplanning in the period before the surface was inhospitable to plants. Not impossible, and a well conceived nest could store heat, even if it couldn't generate it.

So. while your hypothesis is improbable, it can't be totally discounted.

I refuse to accept Mount Olympus as a giant termite hill, though.


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## skeptical (Jul 9, 2009)

Rinman

re canals on Mars.

Some early observers saw what was called canali in Italian - translated as channels, on Mars.   Sadly, they turned out to be optical illusions!
Martian canal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Modern space probes have revealed what appear to be water erosion features of very ancient nature, but natural.  No signs of little green men.  A clear cut and unambigious set of observations shows water ice on Mars, and lots of it at the poles.   
Lots of Pure Water Ice at Mars North Pole | Universe Today
Once, billions of years ago, it may have been liquid and formed natural lakes, floods, and even seas.


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## Dave (Jul 9, 2009)

chrispenycate said:


> I refuse to accept Mount Olympus as a giant termite hill, though.


It is obviously a giant disused Oxygen manufacturing plant as shown in 'Total Recall'. 

I think this should get back to the menace of the giant Ant colony. As yet, I don't think they have discovered space travel.

Ants have no need of a pressurised blood pumping system because, like all Insects, air enters through the spiracles and is transported through a complex system of trachea which run through their whole body. Air can be pumped in by expanding the Insect body, but the amount of inspired oxygen is limited compared to a system using lungs and a heart. It is thought that this may be one reason why today's Insects don't grow as large as those in the fossil record when there was a higher concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere.


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## chrispenycate (Jul 9, 2009)

Dusty said:
			
		

> me Flamethrowers Chrispy.


_Runs comb through frizzled beard_ Now, Dusty, you know we don't do things like that to each other. Sarcasm, irony, bathos, even correcting commas, but no direct attacks…

But social insects don't need to grow big; their strength is in organisation.

Indeed, one of the big mediterranean ants might mass eight times a pharaoh's ant, but it is less annoying than two of them. Teamwork and limited sex opportunities give them the edge over more independent arthropods, not individual size.

Incidentally, don't insects have some sort of circulation system, for distributing nourishment if not oxygen? Even an earthworm's managed that. (I'll check with my entomologist when he gets back from Africa.) Otherwise you could poison a bit of an insect and not all of it.


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## Urien (Jul 9, 2009)

It's clear to me that THEM ants will grow to giant size and live in the Los Angeles Storm drains; here they will battle Terminators driving big trucks, and crash landing space shuttles.

Possibly the whole thing will be purged by Tommy Lee Jones using an unlikely volcano... however that does tend to only kill ugly sidekicks and overbearing bosses.

THEM what a great film, loved it as a kid. Good remake territory with maybe bazillions of dog sized ants.


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## Rinman (Jul 9, 2009)

chrispenycate said:
			
		

> Firstly "canals" is an incorrect translation from the Italian. That doesn't effect your argument at all, since there is evidence of liquid water sometime in mars' past, but it's the sort of detail a pedant revels in. Then, there is no evidence of remaining vulcanism on Mars, so 'underground' wouldn't necessarily be any warmer than the surface.
> 
> But an ants' nest generates heat. Unfortunately it can't invent energy; to grow food to nourish them they rely on the sunlight, which, if it had been powerful enough to heat the underground cavity would have heated the surface; besides, shipping the sunlight underground (quartz tubes?) to where the plants would be grown in the warm would involve preplanning in the period before the surface was inhospitable to plants. Not impossible, and a well conceived nest could store heat, even if it couldn't generate it.
> 
> ...


 
I don't really understand your wording of this post...what I usually say to people when this happens is, "What does that mean in English?"


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## Urlik (Jul 10, 2009)

the ants' nest can generate heat, but it needs a source of energy to do this (usually food with a side order of sunlight).
if the ants never venture above ground and there is no plant life for them to eat, they won't generate any heat in the ant hill and are unlikely to survive very long


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## Rinman (Jul 10, 2009)

Uhm...adaptation...*shrugs* first thought that came to my mind. Or yeah you've got a point...


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## Moonbat (Jul 10, 2009)

Talking about Ant movies, has anyone seen Marabunta?

That is a name for the Army Ant. Anyway I was at home once and comlpaining to Alan about his choice of TV station (cops or dangerous driving or something) and he let me choose. I am a fan of rubbish movies and I stumbled upon Marabunta. Wow! What a shocking film. A hive of South American, killer ants has been lying dormant in Alaska for ten years until seismic activity causes subterranean warming, awakening the ants. While many residents of Burley Pines, Alaska are being eaten alive, a small group races to survive and to find a way to stop the ruthless ants. It had Mulder and Sculy's boss from X-files in. But the special FX were schoolboy and it was highly amusing.

Anyway, I just wondered if any of you poor souls had subjected yourselves to this appalling film.


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## chrispenycate (Jul 10, 2009)

Urlik said:


> the ants' nest can generate heat, but it needs a source of energy to do this (usually food with a side order of sunlight).
> if the ants never venture above ground and there is no plant life for them to eat, they won't generate any heat in the ant hill and are unlikely to survive very long


Thanks; I do tend to get out of comprehensible from time to time on technical matters.

I trust you noticed I proposed a solution to the problem? And not one that requires a vast fossil energy reserve from the 'good times' (like petroleum? And is achievable by ants without any need for super intelligence, or a high tech society?

Ah, well, great minds were never appreciated in their time…


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## Urlik (Jul 12, 2009)

I hope my paraphrasing and summarising didn't miss out any important facts, Chris


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## Urien (Jul 14, 2009)

"How to stop them in my apartment?" 

Flamethrower. 

Believe me, it's the only way to be sure.

Welcome to Chrons.


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## chrispenycate (Jul 14, 2009)

Urlik said:


> I hope my paraphrasing and summarising didn't miss out any important facts, Chris



No, no, an excellent piece of work, hampered by the detail that the original was fairly silly, and didn't contain any important facts.




			
				clairsteven said:
			
		

> How to stop them in my apartment?



What particular model of ant? Pharoh's ants are nomads, with only temporary resting places. (I like to imagine them with tiny little yurts) You can set up an 'ant motel' for them, a little plastic box with insecticide in the core; they walk in, you chuck the entire thing in the dustbin, no more ants (until the next lot arrive). Most conventional ants, however, have fixed nests and lay scent trails to sources of nourishment, so when you've detected the game trail you change its smell. Lots of very confused ants milling around, which are fairly easy to vacuum clean up.

Otherwise, can I recommend an aardvark?


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## skeptical (Jul 14, 2009)

Killing ants.

There are heaps of commercially made ant killing chemicals.  They consist of a slow acting insecticide, like borax, mixed with sugar, and other goodies to make the chemical mix irresistable to ants.   

Lay out lots of little dishes, like bottle tops, with a little of the brew in each.  Ant foragers will find these, and carry the poison back to their nest, where it is fed to other ants.  With luck, you will wipe out the lot.

You will, of course, get re-invasions of new colonies.  So this is an ongoing process.


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