# Science prophesy



## Princess Ivy (Oct 30, 2006)

the first time someone told me that science fiction could be prohetic scared the hell out of me. the example used was 1984 and russia. every now an again i read something and bells start to jingle, one such was brave new world another the eyes of hiesenberg both of which feature genetic tampering. So, are these (and many others) just brilliant wrting coupled with a solid grip on science, or were those writers simply prophets of a new age?


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## Joel007 (Oct 30, 2006)

I don't think they claimed to have divine insights into the world of tomorrow, they just looked at where the world was going and made up a story that highlighted some theme of what could go wrong, and sometimes they got close to the truth. 
Anyway, the best stories, the ones that influence people, are the ones with a basic truth as the central message.


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## j d worthington (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm in agreement with Joel. All of the sf writers I've encountered, when questioned on the subject, get very uncomfortable with the idea that they're predicting anything. Most, however, are quite comfortable with saying that they're writing cautionary tales about trends that they see and their possible outcomes, often based on both the harder sciences and current sociological aspects.

And the best sf, frankly, does this more than try to predict any scientific or technological advances of the future, as those tend to go in directions no one could possibly anticipate that clearly. But when they deal with the effects of such changes on society, and/or deal simply the very rich metaphoric possibilities of the medium, then they are able to address genuine human concerns and examine issues while nonetheless telling an engrossing story ... and sometimes this may have the effect of getting readers to look at these things enough to alter the outcome.


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## mightymem (Oct 31, 2006)

this is true the science fictions author often try to just make a point rather then predict anything.


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## manephelien (Oct 31, 2006)

Absolutely. Although the Department of Homeland Security does bring uncomfortable associations with the Ministry of Peace in 1984. The current US administration wants everyone to see the world their way, and if they don't, they're unpatriotic at best and downright traitors at worst. I'm so glad I'm not American! It may have come 30 years later, but if things continue as they have, the US will live under Big Brother ten years from now.


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## j d worthington (Oct 31, 2006)

Which is what more than a few of us are a little concerned about at present....

As for the question the thread is about: They may not be predicting, but, being fairly good at observing, and at extrapolating from trends, they're often able to get uncannily close to the way society goes at times... And part of this, of course, is the fact that sf also has much in common with parable and fable, which were designed to do the same thing....


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## SpaceShip (Oct 31, 2006)

How we used to laugh in the '50s as we watched the very first TV series about spaceships with the writers' imaginations taking us to other planets.  The next decade put man on the moon!  It was then "oooo" rather than "haha".

I think there is a space space within our brains through which we can look and see things not yet seen!


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## dustinzgirl (Oct 31, 2006)

Perhaps all our stories, fables, myths, legends, fictions and dreams are actually snippets of parallel universes seeping through small threads in the fabrics of reality.


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## mosaix (Oct 31, 2006)

manephelien said:


> Absolutely. Although the Department of Homeland Security does bring uncomfortable associations with the Ministry of Peace in 1984. The current US administration wants everyone to see the world their way, and if they don't, they're unpatriotic at best and downright traitors at worst. I'm so glad I'm not American! It may have come 30 years later, but if things continue as they have, the US will live under Big Brother ten years from now.



Interesting isn't it? Margaret Thatcher in 1984, talking about *1984 *was adamant that her administration had done it's part in preventing _*1984 *_becoming reality. What she failed to realise was that _*1984 *_was a police state not a worker state and her use of the police as an arm of Government against the miners in the 80's actually brought the reality of _*1984 *_a whole lot closer. 

Unfortunately it's not just the US that seems to have its Big Brother problems. The current administration in the UK seems to be taking us down a similar road. They're not as up-front about it as in the US but recent legislation, under the guise of anti-terrorsim laws, is worrying.


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## Talysia (Oct 31, 2006)

It's difficult to say whether sf authors are able to predict the future through their writing. I couldn't really say whether it's possible for an author to predict the future through their writing or not, but is it likely that they could inadvertantly affect the future by the things they suggest?
Thinking of 1984, I don't know whether it was intended to be a warning or simply a piece of fiction, but everyone knows the 'big brother is watching you' phenomenon from it. Granted, civilization may have been heading that way anyway, but is it possible that this inspired some rather than warned?
Also, a lot of sci-fi deals with advanced technology along with concepts, and that, too, inspires people. Without the likes of HG Wells and War of the Worlds all those years ago, would it have taken us longer to consider trying to get mankind into space?


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## j d worthington (Oct 31, 2006)

Well, on the subject of 1984... it was written in the mid-1940s, as I recall, and published in 1948 (hence the choice of numbers, only transposed); and Orwell was drawing on what he saw happening in Russia for his model of the society in the novel. I'm not really sure quite how much Wells influenced people as far as advancing space travel... that one may well remain an open question; most of the advances in that field came from much later causes, and even as late as the early 1950s, the majority of the populace were complete scoffers at the idea. And in the U.S., we were so sluggish with it that it took the fear of the Soviets beating us to it to get us moving. 

Sputnik 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Up until then, we'd been rather slow in moving on this. Still, Wells certainly caused a lot of young people to dream in new ways, and perhaps some of those were the ones who began the early rocket experiments. Verne is more likely the one for that, though, as he did spend more time with the mechanics of it than Wells, who saw his as "scientific romances".

In general: can they affect the future by their writings? Yes, certainly. As can any writer, artist, filmmaker, etc. (Remember the influence of Wagner and Nietzsche on the Nazi party, for instance.) But such influence is, with rare exceptions, unintentional and, as I said earlier, in everything I've seen (with the possible exception of someone like Goodkind, who seems determined to preach) the sf and fantasy writers have stated repeatedly that they don't like the idea of prediction, but prefer to speculate and extrapolate according to the needs of the story and, if they are trying to make social commentary, it is in the nature of cautionary tales about where they see society headed, rather than trying to direct it in a particular direction (save away from the trend they are addressing).


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## Princess Ivy (Nov 2, 2006)

j. d. worthington said:


> Well, on the subject of 1984... it was written in the mid-1940s, as I recall, and published in 1948 (hence the choice of numbers, only transposed); and Orwell was drawing on what he saw happening in Russia for his model of the society in the novel. .


i only found that out later, sitting in that classroom it was pretty impressive.


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## The Ace (Nov 4, 2006)

HG Wells and Jules Verne are full of "Prophetic, " visions, probably due to their own scientific knowledge, but they were by no means infallible.
  Verne's moon shot used a giant gun, and in 1938, London audiences laughed out loud as a vast fleet of bombers crossed the English Channel to flatten Anytown (a thinly-disguised London) in the film version of "The Shape of Things to Come."   Two years later, the bombers came, only to be blasted out of the sky by the RAF.
     Keep an eye on the future, certainly, but don't lie awake at night in terror.


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## Pyan (Nov 5, 2006)

You're caught on CC TV about 250 times a day in London.
Every time you use a credit card all the details go to a central computer, and these are available to all government agencies.
The government are well advanced in plans to introduce compulsory ID cards for everyone in the country, which will have to be carried at all times.

Big Brother is already here: _but it's all for our own good!_


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## j d worthington (Nov 5, 2006)

pyanfaruk said:


> Big Brother is already here: _but it's all for our own good!_


 
Isn't it always?....


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## WhiteCrowUK (Nov 7, 2006)

The way I always look at it is science is always pushing boundaries and creating new marvels.  It's like the old Tomorrows World programs showing us the marvels of tomorrow.

The primary job of science fiction of course is much like any fiction to tell a good story.

But it's secondary role is to take this science of tomorrow, look at how it will impact our world, what will be the moral issues and what happens when it goes wrong.

One example as you've said is genetic modification, which scientists always claim is there for our benefit.  It takes a film like Gattaca to raise alarm bells of _"if we do go down this line will there be a two tier society between those who are perfect genetically and the rest of us?"_.


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## climacus (Nov 7, 2006)

I agree with what another person once told me. He said something like some artists have a heightened sense of reality and where it is going. And so in their works we can see hints of the future. It is not prophetic in the fullest of senses.


Climacus


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## steve12553 (Nov 8, 2006)

I've contended that Science Fiction  has to, at least conceptually, extend beyond beyond Science, as we know it, into Science that we speculate might be true, either today outside our grasp, or at some other time.If you eliminate the stories that merely dabble in concept while concentrating on the story or relationships within the story, and just count the heavy speculaters, we're being to fall into the "enough monkeys , banging on enough typewriters scenerio. Jules Verne speculated about powerful electric submarines. (Nuclear power generates electricity). It's starts there and keeps on going. Granted, there are a lot of predictions or speculations the aren't even reasonable, but there are some that are scary. Fortunately there are always enough veriations to make life interesting...................................... and to keep us speculating.


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## Dirthouse (Nov 8, 2006)

Joel007 said:


> I don't think they claimed to have divine insights into the world of tomorrow, they just looked at where the world was going and made up a story that highlighted some theme of what could go wrong, and sometimes they got close to the truth.
> Anyway, the best stories, the ones that influence people, are the ones with a basic truth as the central message.


 
That is definately true, but what come to mind is that it is possible that they spark these ideas...something that starts off as a fictional dream could be logically dismantled by the powers that be. I mean something as trivial as simple as flying. Started off as a dream but because a reality using science.

Rather than looking at them as Prophets its probably more fitting to reffer to them as instigators...in theory.


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## steve12553 (Nov 8, 2006)

I really think inspiration is more appropreate than instigation. Someone has to have an idea first even if it is a broad, unfleshed out thing.


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## steve12553 (Dec 29, 2006)

I was going to start another thread but I remembered this one. I just stumbled across another example of prediction. Some years ago (probably in the 1980s) there was talk of a Neutron Bomb that killed life but kept building and roads intact. It was supposed to be a clean bomb to allow a city to be depopulated and then safely taken over by the enemy after a while. It was debated for a while and a lot of moral objection were voiced. Eventually the talk died down and I haven't heard anything for several years.

Tonight, I put one of my Christmas gifts in the DVD player and watched one of the first *Doctor Who* episodes from 1963 "*The Daleks*" and listened to the story of how the Daleks unleashed a Neutron Bomb. It killed people but didn't damage the city. I thinks that's a little more that a coincidence, don't you?


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## apokalypsis (Jan 3, 2007)

The role science fiction plays in our societies today is a lot like apocalyptic literature in ancient civilizations -- projecting future conflicts between good and evil, and dealing with ultimate things at the outer fringe of reality. After a few millenia, we humans are still fascinated with such scenarios as "aliens invade" and the end of the age.

These kinds of stories have fascinated people since the ancient Zoroastrians and Hebrews, though the source of "inspiration" and amount of credence ascribed to them has changed a good deal.

As for prophecy as a declaration of things fated to happen vs. a call for action, that could probably be argued for ages. Is a prophecy less prophetic because it required people's free will decisions to bring it about?

I think sci-fi has definitely fueled the imaginations of many creators and played an important role in the development of various technologies and media. (Case in point: the creators of Second Life have openly admitted to being inspired by Neal Stephenson's metaverse.)


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## Harpo (Jan 6, 2007)

How well do the best sci-fi predictions compare with the detailed roadmap of the 21st Century?
Let's wait and see...


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## K. Riehl (Jan 8, 2007)

I remember when Science Fiction was under the influence of the "Scientific American" effect. From late 40's to the early 60's discoveries and stories in science that appeared in _Scientific American_ magazine would start showing up in science fiction stories about 3-4 months later. This ended when more technical information begain to be available from other sources, as well as the sad decision to "dumb down" the articles in the magazine. Today the internet, when there is actually content, seems to drive the ideas behind the stories.


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