# Is the cup half empty or half full?



## a|one (Jun 9, 2005)

Will good will prevail in the end?

Is everything crap? 

Is it all a dream?

Or is it all just totally irrelevent along with us?

Cast your vote/debate about the best/most realistic attitude for life.
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Personally I think it really doesn't matter how we feel because were all just wormfood anyways.


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## lucifer_principle (Jun 9, 2005)

Not sure by the introduction you gave but I am an adventurous person so I understand. Not that my life is that interesting but...So anyway back to the topic. If you really want to know, mine's half full. I am a believer of hope and largely optimistic unlike most of my friends, so you know my answer. By the way in my own opinion good and evil are not totaly independent of external factors if you know what I mean, hence they both come from the enviroment not from us. Everybody is perfectly capable of both provided the condition is there. But I am a nice guy, a believer of hope.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 9, 2005)

The cup is twice the necessary size.


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## a|one (Jun 9, 2005)

So... you're saying I should have left it at 2 options and am copping out?

Maybe. 

Honestly though... I really couldn't decide, its a bad metaphore IMO. I don't think you can just narrow people down to the eternally negative and the eternally positive, some of us just analyze and call it as we see it.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 9, 2005)

Yep. A friend and I recently decided there were four basic types of world-view - optimism, pessimism, idealism (whatever ideal it may be) and 'realism' (or at least the notion that one is being practical and hard-headed), and most of us are some combination of these. I suspect I'm a pessimistic idealist, which is pretty much the worst possible combination.


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## a|one (Jun 9, 2005)

Heh. Thats an interesting theory, but somehow I suspect that there are more groups missing.

----

Okay I've got it, you're missing Anarchism and Conformism, because lets face it there are those who will always seek to argue rather than think, and those who will seek to just agree with the most apparant leader.

I suspect I would be the Anarchistic-Idealist.


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## littlemissattitude (Jun 9, 2005)

You mean there's another one out there, JP? I've always been very idealistic (in fact I've been told once or twice that I'm dangerously idealistic, whatever that means), but I'm also a natural pessimist. As hard as I try to be optimistic, I just can't manage it. I've never been a believer in happy endings because I've not seen many of them. But I hope for them, and so that makes me able to hold on to my idealism even though I'm usually pretty sure that I'm just spitting into the wind when I try to articulate my ideas. There was a very funny Mel Brooks film that came out in 1970 called "The Twelve Chairs", and there was a song in it called "Hope For The Best, Expect The Worst". I think that pretty much sums up my philosophy in this area.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 9, 2005)

> Okay I've got it, you're missing Anarchism and Conformism, because lets face it there are those who will always seek to argue rather than think, and those who will seek to just agree with the most apparant leader.


I'm looking at anarchism as a form of idealism - you believe in the anarchist ideal, just as you might in one of several others - and conformism could be a result of either idealism (some people believe in the norm!), pessimism (can't fight the system, might as well fall in line), optimism (if I do what they say, I may get ahead in life) or some sort of realism. 



> "Hope For The Best, Expect The Worst"


 
My mother told me this when I was quite young, and it stuck in my head.


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## a|one (Jun 9, 2005)

Haha, my mother told me that too. 

But honestly, I don't have any great belief in the anarchistic ideal, I just naturally tend to disagree with people.
A lot of the time I don't even agree with what I'm saying when I stop to think about it (This not being one of those instances... honestly ) 
Most of the time I don't even realize I'm doing it until I've already said the words.

And by conformism I didn't mean people who believe in being normal, just people who naturally look for someone else to think for them. Believe me, I've met lots of them.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 9, 2005)

OK, I'll buy that. Only, as anarchism is in itself a defined ideal (with variants), I'd say that the two new categories should be conformism and non-comformism. So there we are, kiddies - 6 criteria with which to define anyone!!!


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## a|one (Jun 9, 2005)

Hear Hear! I think a new poll is in order...


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## PERCON (Jun 19, 2005)

Positive thinking! Positive thinking! Positive thinking!Got the message yet? I am a positive thinker. If the world ends then another specie will be able to start up it's superbly fantastic life and take over... Positive all the way. Humanity should be positive in the face of death for this way it does not cloud your judgement in the actions you carry out throughout your life.

Life ends with death that's the way it is, make the most of it and become the best person you possibly can be and rule your own world!

_PERCON_


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## Rane Longfox (Jun 19, 2005)

Neither, its actually an Oak Tree.

Or at least, thats what I was always told...


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## Amber (Jun 19, 2005)

Well I put it doesn't exist. But really by the end of a night, your cup is going to be more than half empty


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## Calis (Jun 19, 2005)

Depends if I am thirsty or not.


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## Calis (Jun 19, 2005)

a|one said:
			
		

> Personally I think it really doesn't matter how we feel because were all just wormfood anyways.



isnt that half empty? pessimism?


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## garreth Jacks (Jun 20, 2005)

It all depends what’s in the glass is it stones could be blood is it used in pagan ritually


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## zorcarepublic (Jun 20, 2005)

Well, A republican would wonder who the hell drank half his glass of water...

(exact quote not remembered, but its from someone famous...)


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## Blue Mythril (Jun 20, 2005)

> The cup is twice the necessary size.


Touche!


> Yep. A friend and I recently decided there were four basic types of world-view - optimism, pessimism, idealism (whatever ideal it may be) and 'realism' (or at least the notion that one is being practical and hard-headed), and most of us are some combination of these. I suspect I'm a pessimistic idealist, which is pretty much the worst possible combination.


Although one could argue you as a realist from your first statement 

I must say, i'm a half full kinda girl simply cos I want to think of it as half full. But if I'm honest with myself, I truly don't see how you look at a glass as being important.
It was full at one point, it is half full (or less than full) now, and it will be empty soon (as someone mentioned earlier). At which point it'll be washed (if you live with me it better be), filled and the whole cycle starts again.

Actually on this whole outlook question, I have a friend who very definately leans towards the pessimistic side of things. As an example, at one point she was having bad luck with guys, during this time statements such as "I'm happy being single, I accept the fact that I'm destined to be alone." kept reappearing. Now, to me that's very definately a pessimistic point of view. However, she would constantly argue herself as being a realist (even though she did eventually find a guy, and then move on from him anyway etc etc...).
Now how many people have experienced this, people from one extreme or the other arguing themselves as realists? I'm really interested actually. When I think about it, has anyone come across an optimist who thought they were a realist? I can't think of anyone, probably cos most optimists I know are optimists because they are determined to see the good or hope in something. They don't argue hope as the reality, they just prefer to see the best in things.


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## a|one (Jun 21, 2005)

Calis said:
			
		

> isnt that half empty? pessimism?



Not really, pessimism would be we don't matter and we suck and so does everything else, possibly without the we don't matter part.

I think it would probably be closer to realism, from a non-religious perspective.


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 31, 2005)

For me, it does not matter if the cup is half empty or half full.  I still have to wash the ****ing thing.  I am more chaotic-nuetral than anything else, as long as there is work to be done, the optimism and pessimism viewpoints are dissmissible.  The work has to be done, irregardless of continuous nattering about why it should be done, who should do it, and if the consequences outwiegh the profits.  Not to say that consequences should not be examined, however, there is still a point at which the task must be completed.  Optimistic and pessimistic points of view are illogical at best.  They give us the ability to look at actions from a different perspective, however they do not assist in the formation or execution of an action.


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## lazygun (Jul 31, 2005)

For me, it does not matter if the cup is half empty or half full. I still have to wash the ****ing thing. 

...backs away slowly.....


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## dustinzgirl (Jul 31, 2005)

lazygun said:
			
		

> For me, it does not matter if the cup is half empty or half full. I still have to wash the ****ing thing.
> 
> ...backs away slowly.....



Funny, that is what my kids do when I come home and there are starring  dishes all over the starring house.


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## lazygun (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm sure you love your little stars,really.


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## Ahdkaw (Aug 15, 2005)

An optimist sees half a pint of milk, he says, it is half-full.
A pessimist sees half a pint of milk, he says, it is half-empty.
I see half a pint of milk, I say it is sour.

_Stolen from Jacques "Jacques" Liverot, The Day Today_


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 15, 2005)

The poll reminds how much the cup has been left half empty. But if it should be half full, why not full? Fill that sucker up.


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## lucifer_principle (Aug 15, 2005)

Pessimists cause the most trouble of the two(e.g Hitler), but Hitler was an optimist as well. A little bit of both is needed in every scenario. A pessimists is also an optimist and an optimist is also a pessimist. If I say I hate the way the world is I am a pessimist because I am optimistic on my own self delusional world view and ideas alone. If I pay hundreds of dollars on the roulette table I am optmistic because the situation appears to be a pessimistic one. Basically if you don't like something you must have compared it with your own ideals. You can't have one without the other I guess. Personally, I am an optimist because I am never satisfied...Oh I guess you could call that being pessimist.LOL


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 15, 2005)

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> If I say I hate the way the world is I am a pessimist because I am optimistic on my own self delusional world view and ideas alone.


...and if my half empty cup fills up and overflows onto the table and the new shag carpet, I'm an optimist in a pessimistic mood.


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## Rosemary (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm an optomist, always have been.  There has to be something to look forward to during the course of our lives. 

So, apart from those idealogies already listed - would LOGIC not come into the equation?


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 16, 2005)

Pessimism and optimism create a balance. On the other hand, there may have been a time when man did not have a negative bone in his body. My attitude toward pessimism is a negative one, but I struggle with it on a daily basis.


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## Rosemary (Aug 17, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> Pessimism and optimism create a balance. On the other hand, there may have been a time when man did not have a negative bone in his body. My attitude toward pessimism is a negative one, but I struggle with it on a daily basis.


Be positive, optomistic, confident, have faith, favourable expectations, encouraged, look on the bright side, believe and trust.   
I am sure your daily struggle will win.


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 17, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Be positive, optomistic, confident, have faith, favourable expectations, encouraged, look on the bright side, believe and trust. I am sure your daily struggle will win.


That is the most positive comment I have heard in a long time.     (triple grin rating)


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## Rosemary (Aug 17, 2005)

Why thank you kind fellow Chroni...  For that inspiring remark I award you the quadruple big smile award


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 17, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Why thank you kind fellow Chroni...  For that inspiring remark I award you the quadruple big smile award


...I'm squinting from the glare of teeth.


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## Rosemary (Aug 17, 2005)

Ah but do I have a mouth half full of teeth or a mouth half empty of teeth to cause the glare 
That is the question? 

(Actually I have all of my own teeth)


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 17, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Ah but do I have a mouth half full of teeth or a mouth half empty of teeth to cause the glare


...my guess is that you use your double-edged grin often, to twart that firey pessimism dragon.


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## lucifer_principle (Aug 17, 2005)

Some people say pray for the best and hope for the worst. However don't you have to have hope to be able to pray, and at such there is no point in praying in the first place due to hopelessness. And even if I have already prayed and hoping for the worst doesn't that make someone upstairs realy mad?


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 17, 2005)

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> Some people say pray for the best and hope for the worst.


...hoping for the least, in that sense. Instead of one assuming they will get the best—expecting the best—even demanding the best.


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## Rosemary (Aug 18, 2005)

Just found this little quotation -

Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement.


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 18, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement.


...I like it.

"Optimism is a strategy for making a better future."—Noam Chomsky


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## Rosemary (Aug 18, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...I like it.
> 
> "Optimism is a strategy for making a better future."—Noam Chomsky


 
That's a good one as well!  Might make an optimist out of you yet!


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 18, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> That's a good one as well!  Might make an optimist out of you yet!


...is there such a thing as a "critical optimist"?


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## Rosemary (Aug 18, 2005)

cyborg_cinema said:
			
		

> ...is there such a thing as a "critical optimist"?


No I'm sure there's not, cyborg
Have double checked in the Thesaurus and the Oxford Dictionary but no mention of it there


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## cyborg_cinema (Aug 18, 2005)

Rosemary said:
			
		

> ...Oxford Dictionary but no mention of it there


...thought for sure the Oxford would have it.


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## chrispenycate (Nov 25, 2005)

So, if I've understood correctly we need a poll with six orthogonal axes, with optimism and pessimism the extremes on one, realism and idealism, order and chaos, critical and accepting (should that be gullible?), sociality and isolationism- by the time such a matrix is constructed it'd take a mathematician or a cubist to fill it in.


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## littlemissattitude (Nov 25, 2005)

I think there is definitely a difference between accepting and gullible.  It is possible to accept that something might be possible, without believing every silly thing that someone proposes.

Oh, and I didn't answer the poll, because half full/half empty depends entirely on my mood on any given day.  Today I'd answer half full.  A couple of days ago, half empty would have been the only answer I could contemplate.


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## GOLLUM (Nov 25, 2005)

Hey I decided the cup doesn't exist. After all this is cyberspace isn't it?...


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## littlemissattitude (Nov 26, 2005)

But that's not going to do you much good next time you want a drink in the real world, is it? 

Seriously, I don't hold much truck with the philosophical schools which question the very existence of everything physical.  Because it doesn't matter if things don't exist.  I perceive them, so they exist for me even if they don't exist objectively.  Now, if I start not perceiving them, then I'll worry about it.  But not until then.


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## GOLLUM (Nov 26, 2005)

HMM..a student of Descartes perchance Littlemiss?...

I tend to agree with you though in terms of a practical approach to these sorts of things... 

Having said that I did say "In Cyberspace" not "IRL"......


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## littlemissattitude (Nov 26, 2005)

GOLLUM said:
			
		

> HMM..a student of Descartes perchance Littlemiss?...


 
No. Just a student of trying very hard not to make anything more complicated than it needs to be. Existence is complicated enough without the kind of mind trip like "well, is that cup really real, or is it a figment of my imagination? Or God's? Or some random trickster's?" to drive me crazy. Crazier. I have enough trouble hanging on to my sanity some days without getting into that kind of vicious-cycle argument.

Oh, and who says cyberspace isn't real?

*tiptoes away smiling innocently*


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## GOLLUM (Nov 26, 2005)

littlemissattitude said:
			
		

> Oh, and who says cyberspace isn't real?
> 
> *tiptoes away smiling innocently*


BWHAHAAAA!!!....


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## Hellsheep (Jan 5, 2006)

Let's say it this way: one half of the cup is full and the other is empty.


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