# Thoughts on The Hadron Collider



## BAYLOR (Jul 26, 2015)

It was intend to unlock the mysteries of the universe. It seem to be going us some interesting answer on the nature of atoms and subatomic particles including the  Higgs bossan  known as the god particle. In th coming years more things will learned 


But, there is one note of disappointment.  We were promised a spectacular world ending black hold and so far it's failed to deliver on that.  I don't know about the rest of you but I had so wanted to see Black hole up close.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 9, 2015)

Pentaquarks , mostly matter 1 part antimatter.  One the recent discoveries . But how can something consist or mater and antimatter together? Both annihilate each other  .


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## Overread (Aug 9, 2015)

This is an area of science where so little is known that each time they try something new they often have to re-write segments of what they theorized before. Of course the media cherrypicks and always reports theories as fact and oft won't worry about following up with corrections. It's why science can creep forward and soon it appears its leaped from one state to another without much inbetween to the layman watching the telly


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## Ray McCarthy (Aug 9, 2015)

BAYLOR said:


> We were promised a spectacular world ending black hold


Ice Pirates?


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## Vertigo (Aug 10, 2015)

There was a brief spot on the LHC last night on The Sky at Night. Seems one of their current hopes (post the refit giving it significantly more power) is to gain insight into 'dark matter.' They don't expect to detect dark matter (after all that's why it's called 'dark') but what they are hoping is that they might find a collision where a particle whizzes - good scientific terminology you'll note there - whizzes off in one direction with no detectable particle going in the opposite direction and conservation of momentum then demands that something undetectable must have been present. So they don't expect to detect dark matter directly but are hoping for some indirect evidence.


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## Ray McCarthy (Aug 10, 2015)

Vertigo said:


> but what they are hoping


Of course what ACTUALLY will happen is that they will find something else totally unexpected. I don't expect them to find indirect evidence of "Dark Matter" as I think it's purely a fudge to try and reconcile theory and observations. Or if they do find it, it will have the wrong properties for the postulated Dark Matter.


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## TØny Hine (Aug 10, 2015)

The Large Hadron Collider is actually a black hole. It gobbles up large quantities of cash!


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## BAYLOR (Aug 10, 2015)

TØny Hine said:


> The Large Hadron Collider is actually a black hole. It gobbles up large quantities of cash!



But it has made some discoveries of note .


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## Vertigo (Aug 10, 2015)

Ray McCarthy said:


> Of course what ACTUALLY will happen is that they will find something else totally unexpected. I don't expect them to find indirect evidence of "Dark Matter" as I think it's purely a fudge to try and reconcile theory and observations. Or if they do find it, it will have the wrong properties for the postulated Dark Matter.


To be fair this is exactly what the scientist being interviewed said he wanted to happen "It's always more fun when we get the unexpected!"


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## BAYLOR (Aug 10, 2015)

Vertigo said:


> To be fair this is exactly what the scientist being interviewed said he wanted to happen "It's always more fun when we get the unexpected!"



Whatever we might think of it and  the money that's gone into it, it's quite an impressive feat of technology and engineering. 

Now if it could only make Coffee.


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## TØny Hine (Aug 11, 2015)

Well seeing as this is a sci fi forum and we're talking about the Large Hadron Collider, what sci fi Stories can we come up with?

50 years after the Large Hadron Collider had been decommissioned, all of the radioactive parts disposed of just the shells of bleak and empty dilapidated buildings, a few old metal structures hinting that something massive, some sort of military looking construct had been there.

Right at ground zero the point where the business happened, all of the Earth had been removed several metres deep and then concreted over. Now the concrete was showing its age with weeds growing in cracks, kids playing on their future versions of bicycles and skateboards.

High above their heads where the beams of matter traveling at nearly the speed of light smashed into each other a strange buzzing sizzling sound attracted the kids attention. Now a strange glow, and then  cracks and flashes of lightning as something began to grow in  mid air.

A dark disc formed, but not a disc a sphere. Then from the sphere a small human shape emerged clothed in a shiny tin foil space suit.


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## Temperance (Aug 12, 2015)

If it does go wrong and destroys the earth, well at least the Swiss will go first.


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## TØny Hine (Aug 13, 2015)

Temperance said:


> If it does go wrong and destroys the earth, well at least the Swiss will go first.


I'll be happy if it takes out Julie Andrews


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## chrispenycate (Aug 13, 2015)

Actually, the majority of the ring is under France (Pays de Gex). I used to stop off there frequently, for a beer and a chat a couple of the technicians I knew quite well.

And the above ground bits are not very impressive now - everything important's buried. 'Cept for the wooden sphere now used for exhibitions, and that wouldn't last long without maintenance.

And even were it hitting la Conféderation Helvetique, it wouldn't get Julie Andrews - The Sound of Music was in Austria.


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## TØny Hine (Aug 13, 2015)

Is there any technical reason for it being underground?


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## chrispenycate (Aug 13, 2015)

Most of it's for stability. You're hitting for millimetric precision on a structure of several tens of kilometres, so you find the most solid, permanent lump of bedrock around, and dig a tunnel through it. But it's also shielding for the local inhabitants (and the airport for those trying to get away).


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## TØny Hine (Aug 13, 2015)

I also understand that the machine uses vast amounts of electricity which is supplied by France because they have an abundance of it produced by nuclear.

The other problem with it, is it produces so much data that it is difficult to manage and distribute. I wonder if these two factors came into the decision for its location?


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## Temperance (Aug 13, 2015)

chrispenycate said:


> Most of it's for stability. You're hitting for millimetric precision on a structure of several tens of kilometres, so you find the most solid, permanent lump of bedrock around, and dig a tunnel through it. But it's also shielding for the local inhabitants (and the airport for those trying to get away).


And the rock acts as a shield against the various other subatomic particles flaying around the universe I believe.

So the incredibly rare ones you find are the ones that they intended to put there rather than just passing through.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 14, 2015)

Temperance said:


> If it does go wrong and destroys the earth, well at least the Swiss will go first.



Let's hope that doesn't happen , because if a black hole opens up under Switzerland , there could be serious global economic repercussions.


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## TØny Hine (Aug 14, 2015)

DELETE PLEASE!


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## TØny Hine (Aug 14, 2015)

BAYLOR said:


> Let's hope that doesn't happen , because if a black hole opens up under Switzerland , there could be serious global economic repercussions.



Ha! Took me a while to "Get" that one...


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 14, 2015)

BAYLOR said:


> Let's hope that doesn't happen , because if a black hole opens up under Switzerland , there could be serious global economic repercussions.



There's a black hole in my finances, yet I've not seen a single scientist want to study it or take it on...


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## BAYLOR (Aug 14, 2015)

Venusian Broon said:


> There's a black hole in my finances, yet I've not seen a single scientist want to study it or take it on...




What you really need is a financial advisor who is also an expert in quantum physics .


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## BAYLOR (Aug 14, 2015)

TØny Hine said:


> Ha! Took me a while to "Get" that one...



The Julie Andrew bit had me in stitches.


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## chrispenycate (Aug 15, 2015)

Delete what? The planet? Even assuming that Hawkins' black hole evaporation isn't correct (if it is, there's no risk of long-term danger) the amount of energy available in Meyrin, impressive as it might seem in human terms, could only generate black holes in the sub-microgram range, with event horizons considerably smaller than an atomic nucleus.

And they'd be traveling at high speed, almost certainly greater than solar escape velocity, and will penetrate the shielding round the ring with negligible loss (on average). So 99% (or whatever) will set out into interstellar space oh, a few of them might have penetrated me, standing by the no. 18 tram stop, while departing, but they're less damaging than a cosmic ray. 

So the only ones we're worried about are those that go straight down - though with the amount a body like this takes notice of gravity, perhaps 'towards the Earth's core' would be a better description. Though most of these will go straight through the planet, maybe hitting an atomic nucleus and absorbing it in flight (the actual statistical chance for any particular atom is low, given the actual amount of empty space relative to nucleus, but there are a lot of them). It's possible that enough momentum-absorbing collisions would leave the hole in orbit round the Earth's centre of gravity, without enough velocity to break free, absorbing atoms it got close enough to.

"But that's exactly the threat they were warning about." I hear you cry. "Atom by atom it could swallow the Earth." Well, yes - remembering I've made some pretty pessimistic assumptions to get this far. But when? A microgram of gravitational field isn't going to pull in matter from very far away. When it's eaten enough to mass a few megatons, things change, but how long? Estimates so rough as to be classed under 'guess' rather than 'hypothesis' left me with a few hundred thousand years - and I just can't get excited about that. Particularly when there must be millions of them floating round the cosmos created by exploding stars (assuming they don't evaporate). So I wasn't worried, when taking the number eighteen tram, that the rails were going to shrivel up revealing a huge blank in the landscape where St. Genis used to be.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 16, 2015)

I doubt anything they do with the collider  will ever cause a black hole. All they are doing is colliding particles. The particles in question are tiny there is no possible way that can cause any kind problem.


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