# Best smartphone?



## Brian G Turner (May 5, 2014)

Been meaning to ask this for a while ...

What does everyone here think is the best smartphone?

I'm normally something of a closet iPhone fan - the environment is great to work with - and safe - and the hardware is usually top quality. There is a sense that this is a premium phone.

But - over the past couple of years it's become clear that it's premium that comes at a hefty additional price - both for the handset, and the apps - and no longer seems that much of a premium.

For example, though the iPhone camera remains one of the best quality on the market, even at 8MP, it's long felt too limited, especially when other phone have moved beyond that.

The screen size is also quite small for watching anything on - and while there are clear suggestions the iPhone 6 will have a bigger screen, it won't be that much bigger, and will remain one of the smallest among the biggest selling brands.

There's also the point that Sony and Samsung's latest models are certified as waterpoof - surely something that should be standard on premium phones these days, especially considering their cost - and the high chance of getting them wet by accident?

There are also minor annoyances about the iPhone - the inability to expand memory, and the fact that you become locked to a single network, no matter what SIM card you put in.

Despite that I enjoy my iPhone, I've long been looking enviously at the latest Sony Xperia range, especially the Xperia Z1.

It's a solid piece of kit, expandable memory, up to 21MP camera, waterproof, and lush big screen for a phone.

You can do everything on it that I'd need to on an iPhone - and more. And it's a helluva lot cheaper - currently selling at around £350 on Amazon.

The Xperia Z2 is not long out, but it seems the main addition is really just 4K video recording, which I can't see being an issue for me for a long time.

So, what does everyone think about in terms of smartphones? Which do you think are the best? Do you think Apple's lost it? Where are you looking to now?

Just a conversation starter.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 5, 2014)

I actually like Blackberries. Not trendy, I know, but for office functionality on the run (which is what I need) they're hard to beat - the 3g interrnet access, for instance, is a great feature that I use all the time. How else would I have my post count otherwise.


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## Erin99 (May 5, 2014)

*cough* I'mbiasedbutSamsungS4-bigscreennicecameraexpandablememorygiantinternalmemoryHDscreen4GquadcoreandyoucanevengetanActiveversionforthosewhoareactiveandhere'salinkandanotherone *cough*

However, have you looked up this so-called "waterproof"? It only means it's better in mild rain. If you got it _seriously_ wet, it would die. It has the same flaw that all products do: ports. And while ports can be covered in rubber bungs to make them rainproof, they won't stand being dropped in a bath. I remember reading an article on someone who got a new S4 Active, supposedly waterproof, and tried to show off its waterproof feature to his pals by dropping it in a sink. It died.

So don't base your decision on that. Go for whatever else is important to you. Big screen, nice camera, clear display, nice battery life, etc.


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## Lenny (May 5, 2014)

I've been an Android and HTC man since the release of the HTC Hero - upgraded to the Desire about six months later, the One X two years after that, and I'm looking to upgrade to the One (M8) in a few weeks (having had my One X for just over two years). No real need to upgrade the times I did, but I've managed to sweet-talk my way into some great deals with Orange (though for my upcoming upgrade, I'm likely to switch to giffgaff, unless Orange bow to my pressure).

I'm an Android man because: I find Apple's software constricting and not particularly intuitive (and, with that release of iOS7, immensely hideous); I find Blackberrys unattractive (in design, and software); and I find the Windows Phone OS lacking in features and flat-out ugly (I often look at screenshots and can't help but think that the design team gave up halfway through).

Back in 2009, I would have only recommended Android to computer geeks, because it looked fairly dated and was lacking in features (the difference now with WP8 is that Microsoft came to a saturated market, whilst Google released Android in a market occupied solely by Apple). Over the years, the design has improved considerably, and the OS has gained much-needed functionality and features, and then some.

I don't think Apple have lost it. Sure, they've slipped into the habit of iterating with their yearly refresh, but they still hold the premium market - Android may have 80% of the global smartphone share, but people still talk about having to beat Apple, and everything is still compared to the iPhone.

In terms of the best Android phones, there's little to differentiate the flagships when you look at specs and features. The best experience, I'd argue, has to be the Nexus range (with the Nexus 5 being the most recent) - mid-to-high level specs, pure Android without carrier or manufacturer bloatware, and a very competitive price (you'll be hard-pressed to find anything with similar specs at a similar price).

Samsung appear to have the Android market cornered, with phones that aren't particularly special. Yes, the Galaxy S and Galaxy S2 were a breath of fresh air, but everything Samsung feels, to me, cheap in the hand, the Touchwiz skin cartoonifies Android (and is generally considered the worst Android skin... particularly as the past few versions of Android have been pretty enough to not warrant custom skins), and the phones come with half-baked replacements of every single default app that, if the surveys are to be believed, are rarely, if ever, used. They do have good cameras, though, which are possibly closest to the iPhone.

I've never held a phone as magnificently put together as an HTC. The company isn't doing particularly well, but their build quality is second to none. The screens are very good, and the skin, whilst arguably unnecessary, is the lightest of custom skins. The camera is average, although brilliant in low light. Unfortunately, their phones are often let down by poor battery life. That said, however, reports on the HTC One (M8)'s battery are very positive.

LG are the manufacturers of the Nexus 5, and their most recent flagship, the Optimus G2, might as well be a more premium version of the Nexus 4. The G3 is rumoured to be announced and released soon, and it should be a very nice phone. If you can count on LG for anything, it's beautiful screens, and a long battery life.

I must confess that I've not heard much about Sony's Z2 other than it has a beautiful screen, and an outstanding battery life (if not the best of recent flagships). Sony's Xperia range is their first since the split with Ericsson, and by all reports, they're the best phones Sony have produced for years.

Motorola, finally, buck the flagship trend, and instead more closely mirror what Google have done with the Nexus range - well-specced phones at low prices running almost-pure Android. The Moto G is the entry-level phone, and the Moto X could be considered a direct competitor to the Nexus 5. Both are very well reviewed, with the Moto X being proclaimed, by some, as the most important smartphone since the iPhone. Whilst Google works with partners for the Nexus range, the Moto X was the closest Google came to releasing the mythical "Google Phone". A successor is rumoured to be announced soon.

Of course, each manufacturer has mid-range and entry-level phones, and phones that aren't as large as their flagships - generally, these are "mini" versions with 4" screens rather than 5".

---

Those are my thoughts. I have some brand loyalty to HTC, simply because of the build quality, so I'm looking at getting the One (M8) as my next phone. I tend to root my phones as soon as a I get them, and install custom ROMs as and when I can, so hardware is my biggest consideration.


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## Brian G Turner (May 5, 2014)

Leisha said:


> SamsungS4



The S5 does look like a decent piece of kit - don't know much about the S4, though, but I've seen people on Amazon complaining that the S5 is more of an incremental update to the S4 -  aside from the waterproofing. 

I'm not sure how it applies to the  S5, but the Sony Xperia Z1 and Z2 are certified to withstand immersed in  1.5 meters for 30 minutes. BUT the ports must be fully sealed. I've  read reports of problems, but I'm given the impression some people are  not taking proper care to ensure the ports are fully closed.




Lenny said:


> HTC One



It does look like a good phone. The one thing that does put me off is the apparent focus on social media integration, which doesn't serve me personally. However, I do love what they've done with the speakers - something other manufacturers should take note of. 

My first smartphone was a HTC Desire HD and thought it was great - until I accidentally dropped it in a rock pool. Hence why I'm big on wanting waterproof protection.


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## Lenny (May 5, 2014)

I said:


> It does look like a good phone. The one thing that does put me off is the apparent focus on social media integration, which doesn't serve me personally. However, I do love what they've done with the speakers - something other manufacturers should take note of.
> 
> My first smartphone was a HTC Desire HD and thought it was great - until I accidentally dropped it in a rock pool. Hence why I'm big on wanting waterproof protection.



BlinkFeed (which is the screen of social media), can be turned off if you don't want it. I've read a fair few reviews that actually really like it, but, like you, I'm not crazy about it, and it would be one of the first things I'd turn off. The phone isn't officially waterproof, though, unfortunately.

Something that should be mentioned about Android phones is that Google sell "Google Play Edition" versions of a few flagships on the US Play Store - in most cases identical hardware, but running the same version of the OS as the Nexus range. The key thing here is the hardware, meaning that even though you can't buy a GPE phone in the UK, you can flash the GPE ROM onto a supported phone (which includes the HTC One M8, and the Samsung Galaxy S4). The program appears to be growing, and I'd expect a number of new GPE devices to be announced at this years Google I/O.


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## AnyaKimlin (May 5, 2014)

I am not a mobile person (don't own one) but for reading my books and listening to meditation music I do rather like hubby's Samsung.  Unfortunately I have no idea which version it is.


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## Darth Angelus (May 14, 2014)

I am not sure there is such a thing as best smartphone. There could be best for a particular individual, based on which of certain criteria are (the most) important to them.
These criteria could be price, specs, battery life, operating system, user interface, camera, size/weight, real estate, extra features (such as the pen for the Samsung Note series).
I think one criteria that would be quite important for the vast majority of users is reliability, for example that it does not randomly shut down like my friend's former phone did.

If price is not an issue, and you are willing and able to pay for high end phones, you would clearly have more options, of course. Any of the large manufacturers's flagship phones could be the best for your needs, depending on what they are.
Apple iPhone 5S, Samsung Galaxy S5 and Note III (if you want a bit more real estate and don't mind the size), HTC One, LG G2 and others could all be the best, I think.


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## Phyrebrat (May 14, 2014)

I said:


> ... I'm normally something of a closet iPhone fan - the environment is great to work with - and safe - and the hardware is usually top quality. There is a sense that this is a premium phone.
> 
> But - over the past couple of years it's become clear that it's premium that comes at a hefty additional price - both for the handset, and the apps - and no longer seems that much of a premium.
> 
> ...



Reading what the others said before me in this thread will give you a better indication - esp if the waterproofing is an issue, but Leisha's put that into perspective - as I only have experience of iPhones having had a 3GS and 5.

But ... I'd be interested in your choice and findings if you _do_ move away from the iPhone because it is something I have been considering - perhaps not as seriously, and certainly not till next Dec when my contract runs out. I'm with you on the hardware and environment, but lately I'm not as gruntled as I used to be. 

Apple have become a little bit too - what's the word - sweeping with their changes and secret implementations, and I loathe the arrogance of their 'just find it out for yourself' approach to updates and improvements (I'm gerting used to the new _Fisher Price_ look of iOS7). I'm busy and I don't have the time or wish to uncover all the new tweaks and changes in methodology.

However I have an iMac for Final Cut, Photoshop and Logic, an iPad and an ancient iPod so staying in that family of i-gadgets just seemed simplest to me. Especially after the horrendous experience I had in 2008 with Zune (a Microsoft verision of iPod that doesn't actually communicate properly with it's own Windows-environment software).

What I _can_ say is my partner has an HTC and he finds the battery consumption just as poor as an iPhone. But, as with iPhones, that could be peculiar to certain users.

pH


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## alchemist (May 14, 2014)

Darth Angelus said:


> Apple iPhone 5S, Samsung Galaxy S5 and Note III (if you want a bit more real estate and don't mind the size), HTC One, LG G2 and others could all be the best, I think.


 
This is what has limited me to smaller phones, as mine has to fit in a pocket. Yet a large reason for my choosing a phone is the ability to write and edit, so smaller screens counted against me.

My last two have been smaller Samsungs. I like the interface and it feels quite intuitive. My only issie was downloading Samsung Kies to my laptop -- it froze the laptop completely - but I've managed to get by without Kies since.


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## Nerds_feather (May 14, 2014)

Over the past 2 years I've had 4 Android phones and 1 iPhone (current). I had an HTC One S that I loved, but the power button broke after 6 months. The carrier sent me a replacement, but it wouldn't access LTE. The carrier sent me another replacement and it would randomly reset every 10 minutes or so. So I convinced them to let me out of my contract and start anew with the Samsung Galaxy S3. It lasted 15 months before bricking. So I got an iPhone. I very much hope I don't have to get another phone for a long time. 

In general, I think the iPhone has much superior physical build quality to the Android phones on the market, and a more elegant OS. This latter is exacerbated by the fact that many manufacturers add their own "skins" and bloatware (a problem with the Galaxy S3). I've also found that many cross-platform apps, for whatever reason, work better on iOS

On the other hand, Android can do some things that iOS can't, and the Galaxy phones have the added bonus of a user replaceable battery and an SD slot, which I miss.  

If I were to get an Android phone again, though, I think I'd get whatever the current Nexus phone is (Google's flagship to show off the latest version of its OS). The current one has a decent physical build, no bloatware and is significantly cheaper than other phones with similar specs/features. But I'd probably still get the iPhone instead.


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## mosaix (May 14, 2014)

Blackberry user for 4 years. Swapped to an iPhone 6 months ago and wouldn't dream of going back. As for the cost, with the EE (Orange) contract I've got I only paid £40 so it was a no-brainer.


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## TheDustyZebra (May 14, 2014)

I have a Samsung and no complaints about it -- but I did look long and hard at an HTC before getting the Samsung.


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## Kylara (May 14, 2014)

HTC and Sony Xperia are good. Depends what you want it for. The new HTC has a snazzy extra camera for cool depthy stuff and the Xperias are generally pretty awesome.


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## Parson (May 15, 2014)

When I read what all you techies do with your phones I feel like a brain dead, bumble handed, Neanderthal. But, I do have a smart phone. I had a couple of BlackBerries, but the last one (Curve) left me with no ability to Synch one day and lost my 300+ entry address book. And although I can't prove it, my Outlook has not worked correctly since. (I suppose I can't rule out the opposite that Outlook crashed the BlackBerry stuff, that would be a typical M$ tactic.) 

Being a poor Parson I was looking for cheap for a replacement. --- I'm still fumbling with an almost working Outlook for 18 months now. --- So I got a Samsung S2 (?) --- It was a close out. It has been dependable, and slowly on I'm learning more and more of its capabilities. Lately I just got a stylus. And all of a sudden I can actually use the on screen key board. What a pleasure! I do love the voice to text feature. I can now keep up a text conversation with my daughter. 

My next phone likely comes in about 6 months, I'm thinking another Samsung. --- Unless losing their case to Apple causes them to crash and burn.


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## cornelius (May 15, 2014)

I had a nokia lumia 720 but I dropped it and cracked the screen. After a whole ordeal with reperations it ended up being even more broken. I bought a lumia 625 to replace it, only to find out the place across the street now added lumia's as specialty in fixing screens (formerly only Samsung and iPhone). I was really happy with the lumia 720, the camera was amazing and the screen worked even when cracked. Windows 8 worked fine too, there weren't as many apps as Android or IOS but I found substitutes for most of the things I need. The battery was a beast and the seamless slots for sim and microSD were a nice touch. Yet that seamless feel was also the biggest downside as it made the phone more difficult to repair. 


I had an iPhone 4S as a substitute for a while and I didn't really like it. The Lumia felt much slicker and worked smoother, but as that 4S was a used device it might have been in a less than optimal condition.


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## Mouse (May 15, 2014)

(I know _nothing_ about phones, I'm not even entirely sure what a 'smartphone' is, and I rarely even have my mobile on me. But... just wanted to comment on the waterproof thing. I dropped my phone in a waterfall not all that long ago - like, right in the pool - and it works fine still. It's a Samsung.)


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## Parson (May 15, 2014)

*Mouse, *I hope your luck is better than mine. I once dropped my "mobile" (the Parson notes how he loves English phraseology) into the lake. It worked fine, --- for about a month and then it trashed. The local phone guru told me that this was a normal procedure. Usually phones dry out and work, but only for a short time. {Sigh!!}


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## jastius (May 15, 2014)

have you seen the new watch phone? its strapped to your wrist so you can't drop it ... just don't try it for scuba diving


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## Mouse (May 15, 2014)

Parson said:


> *Mouse, *I hope your luck is better than mine. I once dropped my "mobile" (the Parson notes how he loves English phraseology) into the lake. It worked fine, --- for about a month and then it trashed. The local phone guru told me that this was a normal procedure. Usually phones dry out and work, but only for a short time. {Sigh!!}



I'm due for an upgrade in June so if it does conk out, it's all right.


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## Gramm838 (May 15, 2014)

you need to get one of the ones with walking instructions on them - left, right, left, right,...you know, the one's people have to read as they walk down a street.

I mean, that can be the only reason they do that, can't it?


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## Brian G Turner (May 24, 2014)

I found my old receipt for my iPhone and was astonished by the price.

I've become so used to looking at Android phones - which are generally released as new in the £500-£600 range - and then after 2-3 months, can usually be bought brand new for around £350 on Amazon.

A plastic 8GB iPhone will cost £429, and a normal 16MB iPhone will cost £549 - all year around. a 64GB iPhone 5 will cost £709!! When the new larger screen iPhones are released, expect that to cost more, too.

And yet Android phones typically come with 16-32GB of memory, plus can now be expanded with a 64-124GB mini SD card.

The exaggerated price difference for the Apple iPhone is hard to justify - especially when you have to pay for most Apple iOS apps - but don't for Android apps.

Let's repeat that - a high end Android phone will have all the specs of an iPhone at half the price, and the apps will usually be free - an iPhone will generally be nearly twice the price, and you then have to buy all the apps after.

If Apple had created the perfect experience with the iPhone then at least they might be able to claim some justification for the extra price - and for the main part, I agree they've gone that extra way.

But then, there are so many small but significant niggles. 

Updating software with Android is smooth - I've never had any problems with it. But I have lost all my data updating iOS before now, plus losing iTunes purchases.

Additionally - iTunes. I have always had a problem with album artwork not showing. iTunes sometimes just loses some of the images for no reason. Additionally, the iPhone frequently forgets what image should be displayed with an album track, so resorts to simply displaying a text header. These problems don not occur with Android devices I use - so at double the price, Apple delivers a less pleasing user experience with music. (Though, to be fair, most providers have no equivalent to iTunes for PC, except Samsung, and their Samsung Kies is a PC killer).

Meanwhile, I noticed the Sony Xperia T2 on the international site recently:
Xperia T2 Ultra | Android Smartphone - Sony Smartphones (Global UK English)

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's coming out in the UK, though we may get an equivalent later on, as it looks like an upgraded version of the Xperia Ultra. That looks like a potentially ideal machine for me - a good-sized phablet for writing notes on, plus a strong camera, phone, and all the usual features of a high-end phone. Can be upgraded to 128GB, too.

Not that I think I'm in the market to buy at the moment, but I just can't see myself upgrading to another iPhone model. It doesn't deliver anything special above the competition, but it does charge twice the price for doing so.


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## Starlyte (May 31, 2014)

I've had a Defy MB525 for 3 years, as it's shock proof (that's sure!), water proof (at least coffee splashes) and Android.
But, oh my!, I'm changing the operator in a couple of months, and I'm looking for something similar, but a better camera, and bigger screen, with NFC. 
I might buy a Chinese one and save a few euros (yukky - doesn't sound the same as "save a few quid...or francs  ), or go for an over the 1€ offer ones. But the choice isn't easy, that's sure.
I've looked at HTC, and Sony Xperia, LG, too, but I want a reasonable telephone, shock proof, rain resistant, with a good camera (can't afford both, at the price they are!), and of course, Android's latest success. I was impressed by the Sony Xperia, one of the newer ones, but OMG the price!
Why they can't let you pay in 3 or 4 times, like the PC hardware online shops do, most of the time? 
There are some good Chinese phones, and sites in English or French, who specialize in their reviews, and also the soft that's suitable for each. So I think that will be my direction when my present contract is over, sadly. European phones are just too expensive if you want more than the basics.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 8, 2014)

Interesting to see rumours put the larger new iPhone 6 on a release date for 2015, rather than later this year:
iPhone 6: Bigger, Faster, Coming this Fall

If a 5.5" iPhone 6 is coming, IMO Apple have to release it at the end of this year to remain competitive, rather than early 2015 as the article suggests. The company cannot afford to keep releasing minor updates/changes each year, while all of its rivals continue to innovate.


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## Phyrebrat (Jun 8, 2014)

I said:


> If a 5.5" iPhone 6 is coming, IMO Apple have to release it at the end of this year to remain competitive, rather than early 2015 as the article suggests. The company cannot afford to keep releasing minor updates/changes each year, while all of its rivals continue to innovate.



I'd be quite happy if they deferred till the following quarter and suffer badly as it may give Apple the boot in the rear I think it needs to refocus. I think they're stretching loyalty now - certainly this* banner-man thinks so.

pH

*i.e. me  (Also, not due for an upgrade until 2015 anyway...)


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## Lenny (Jun 9, 2014)

To be fair to Apple, what I've read about iOS8 sounds like a step in the right direction - they're finally opening up the OS to third-parties. Sure, they're not cracking their closed garden wide open, but the fact that Apple are going to let third-party apps communicate with each other and, in the case of keyboards, replace stock apps, is huge.

Apple's new language, Swift, also sounds like fun... but that's not hard, as it's a replacement for Objective-C.


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## monsterchic (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm just going to jump in...I've had my Samsung Galaxy S5 for almost a week now and it is the best phone ever.  Period.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 17, 2014)

Interesting to see that Sony are about to launch the Xperia T3:
Xperia

Not least because with a 5.3" screen it's sized nearer the Xperia Z line than previous T models. It comes with a 8MP camera, rather than a larger than standard size the Z models had, which means the T3 looks like it's going to be a powerful mid-range smartphone.

As before, wait before you buy to allow the price to drop. 

In the meantime, the Sony Xperia Z1 is now only just over £300 on Amazon - an absolute bargain by comparison to the iPhone:
Sony Xperia Z Ultra SIM-free Android Smartphone - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

(EDIT - in fact, the White version is now selling at £295)


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 18, 2014)

Two interesting new stories today:

The first, a Chinese-made smartphone that looks like a Galaxy clone - but instead comes packed with non-removable malware that reportedly can track everything from personal info to banking details:
BBC News - eBay pulls sales of Chinese 'spyware phones'

The second is that Amazon are launching a "Fire Phone" - but by the sounds of it, it's priced the same as a low end iPhone or the Galaxy 5, which is surprising considering that Amazon normally chase low prices:
BBC News - Amazon Fire Phone offers 3D views and gesture controls


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## Kylara (Jun 18, 2014)

Hah, a friend of mine refuses to use or buy any computing components from America because he thinks that they are filled with malware and backdoors from being made in China. I'm more surprised that they were so blatant in their malware and that is was so easy to find...


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## markpud (Aug 26, 2014)

I'm a big HTC fan, running the HTC One (M7) for over a year now.. sadly the next gen phones are all too big for my tastes; I don't want anything bigger than the 4.7" screen I have now. Rumours are that Apple are moving up to 4.7" with the next iPhone (and possible 5.5" too).

iPhones are restrictive but simple to JB (presuming iOS8 can be broken faster than 7 was)... whereas you can do more or less everything you want on Android without rooting (installing 3rd party tweaks etc). I have a corporate email app that won't run on a rooted device so I have to keep it clean.

PS Jailbreaking is legal, but does void your warranty!


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## Kylara (Aug 26, 2014)

Haha I had to unlock the bootloader on mine and install a custom ROM because the stupid O2 engineers weren't getting my instructions as the customer service dept wasn't passing them on - so they weren't fixing it at all, just sending it back. 

Voided my warranty but my HTC does work very nicely now  aside from my camera killing the phone every so often, but I just haven't gotten around to fixing that yet


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 6, 2014)

iOS8 doesn't excite me:
https://www.apple.com/ios/ios8/

Integrated fitness apps. Photo editing on any device. Voice messaging. Just what I needed.

In the meantime, would be nice if it corrects some of the issues in iOS7, such as iTunes on the phone/tablet being ultra-fussy about image sizes.


In the meantime, Sony are launching the Xperia Z3 later this month:
https://www.apple.com/ios/ios8/

Though as yet I'm not sure how much of an upgrade it is from the Z2 - PS4 remote gaming and extended battery life are the only things that stand out for me at the moment.

IMO the Xperia Z1 is still amazing for general use - the Z2 only really introduced 4K video recording, but I don't know anyone who is capable of viewing that on a TV. And despite that it arguably has better features than the iPhone 5, it's a helluva lot cheaper - currently £292 at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ECBVNIG/?tag=brite-21


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## Michael Colton (Sep 7, 2014)

My vote for 'best smartphone' is whatever comes free with a plan. For some reason I just do not get excited by new phone releases. I am the boring dork sitting there going "but, but, this one works just fine..."


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 9, 2014)

Interesting!

Apple is expected to announce a new phone half the size of market leaders but at twice the price - but with integrated fitness apps!

But Amazon try to steal the day with the new Amazon Fire phone:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000819073&ie=UTF8&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-auto-sparkle&pf_rd_r=19T4HQ6WP8YV0N8A3YPA&pf_rd_p=525934827&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=fire phone&qid=1410247954

No price yet for sim-free, but the specs look pretty decent.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 9, 2014)

Isn't the integrated fitness thing for the watch, not the new phone? Or is it both?


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 9, 2014)

Integrated fitness relates to the operating system - iOS8 - allowing apps to communicate. Plus the watch has body sensors.

And indeed, the iPhone is out:
http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/

Good to see both larger models were released this year. But the price is steep. I like the look of the iPhone 6+, but it's more than twice the price of the Sony Xperia Z1, and doesn't do anything different for me. It offers Apple appeal, rather than functionality.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 9, 2014)

As far as I know, that has largely been the case with them for a little while is it not? That is why their market share has been deteriorating. Brand loyalty and aesthetics only go so far after everyone else has caught up to the innovation.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 10, 2014)

Indeed - last year, the larger phones might have been exciting. But now Apple are simply playing catch up with the Samsung Galaxy - larger phone, check; NFC, check; smartwatch, check.

I believe the BBC website also reported that the Galaxy still has a higher resolution. And the Samsung Galaxy S5 and Sony Xperian Z range are waterproof.

Apple are quoted as saying that they tend to enter a market late, and innovate. But the popular perception would be that Apple defined the smartphone market - but have spent the last couple of years more focused on legal battles, than innovation.

And they've lost a lot of ground because of that.

I speak as an iPhone 5 owner, who is slightly jealous of his wife's Xperia Z1.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 10, 2014)

The one company I am surprised that has not caught up with everyone else is Nokia. There was some really promising stuff from them when whats-his-name started taking over their design process. I have not heard much since.

I think my iPhone is a 4S. I am not sure. A relative sent it to me when he updated to a new phone. That is usually how I get my phones - I have not bought a new phone for myself since '05 I think. I typically just use them for texting people, so I do not need much.

The one thing I currently love Apple for is bringing back minimalism in UI design. The iOS7 'blurry background with simplified thin-weight text' thing has really encouraged web designers and others to bring back minimalism. Which I am always a fan of. There have been some amazing websites that have utilized that style far better than I expected.


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## markpud (Sep 10, 2014)

4.7" is my ideal phone size so I might be tempted by an iPhone 6.. but that's a pretty big might! Hopefully HTC will bring out something in that size range which has flagship specs...

I really don't know who these people are who want a 5.5" phone, they look utterly ridiculous and they don't fit in pockets...


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## Michael Colton (Sep 10, 2014)

I think it is for playing games, but I do not personally get it either. All I do is text and answer required phone calls.


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## markpud (Sep 10, 2014)

I use a fair bit of Internet on my phone so I get that a big screen is handy, but I really think it's gone too far now...


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 10, 2014)

Michael Colton said:


> The one company I am surprised that has not caught up with everyone else is Nokia.



They failed to adapt to the smartphone market by keeping to their propriety OS. When they started to die, Microsoft ran a few partnerships with them, then bought them out. As Microsoft has never really understood anything outside of personal computer software, I doubt we'll see much big from them. Microsoft currently has around 4% of the mobile market, in the USA and Europe.

EDIT:



markpud said:


> 4.7" is my ideal phone size so I might be tempted by an iPhone 6.. but that's a pretty big might! Hopefully HTC will bring out something in that size range which has flagship specs...
> 
> I really don't know who these people are who want a 5.5" phone, they look utterly ridiculous and they don't fit in pockets...



What about the HTC One? A pretty decent phone by all accounts:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000NTBLV0/?tag=brite-21

I personally love the larger screen phones. At first I was dubious, but I find the Z1 great for typing on, and watching video.


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## markpud (Sep 10, 2014)

Brian Turner said:


> What about the HTC One? A pretty decent phone by all accounts:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000NTBLV0/?tag=brite-21
> 
> I personally love the larger screen phones. At first I was dubious, but I find the Z1 great for typing on, and watching video.



I have last year's HTC One, I love it but its getting a bit bogged down with the new version of Sense. The One M8 looks too big for me. But I don't have to decide til Novemberish when my contract's up..


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## Michael Colton (Sep 11, 2014)

Well, this discussion has just become more relevant for me since my family has decided to switch carriers. Which means we all have to get new phones. 

So, I will be doing a bunch of research on phones now. If there is a dramatic price difference, I cannot imagine getting another iPhone.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 11, 2014)

Interesting update on this for anyone switching to Verizon. My family still works on a plan together because it is always cheaper. Verizon has a deal right now that if you switch to them and purchase your phone through them at retail price you pay it off over 20 months - but they subsidize your data plan significantly (assuming you have a 10GB or higher plan). I did the math, and for me to go from a $100 phone that only has 32GB storage to an iPhone 6 Plus 64GB version it would cost me about fifteen dollars a month more. At that much per month, I think I am willing to do it. I need the 64GB anyway, so it looks like I will be getting one of the new ones. That is two and a half packs of cigarettes less a month difference in price.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 15, 2014)

IMO Apple really need to go back to their roots and look again at how they use iTunes and manage music.

To me, the recent U2 debacle really highlights this. 

Firstly, many people had it installed in their music library without permission. The BBC reports that Apple have released a quick removal tool for people who never wanted it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29208540

Really, it should have been an optional download in the first place.

But here's the kicker for me - many people _couldn't_ access it. If you used iTunes Match - a paid for Cloud Storage service for your music - you had to switch it off, and then back on again, to access it. 

And those who don't normally use Cloud services, had to change the settings in iTunes to display "tracks in the cloud" to find it.

IMO this is demonstrative that Apple has moved from visionary to committee. Otherwise why else would Apple mess up one of the world's biggest promotions? On the newest iPhone, which aims to catch up to last year's Samsung Galaxy phone?


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## Michael Colton (Sep 15, 2014)

I agree with you, Brian. The difficulty is that their roots are innovation on a broad scale that is extremely well-branded. They are still doing fine on the branding aspect, but there is certainly a lull in the innovation or 'wow factor.' But this has happened before in their history. They have more than one several year slumps of essentially just upgrading their product lines without doing much new or inventive. That is why the branding is so important to them - the loyalty gets them past those slumps.

But I do think they are in a more permanent downswing where others will be alongside them from now on. The whole phenomenon that the Beats by Dre headphones became? Should have been Apple. There are those kind of opportunities going by that I think they could have had a hand in that they are not taking anymore. Instead they are re-envisioning a product that nobody needs anymore: watches.


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## Phyrebrat (Sep 15, 2014)

And regarding the headphones - or earpods or whatever stupid name they have now - Apple really seemed to be swimming against the current. I've not heard more vitriol levelled at anything like that in the past; they appeared to be universally hated. When you can buy a good set of in-ear Sennheisers or what-have-you, cheaply, that Apple should package those hellacious and dated ear phones is unfathomable.

Furthermore, their charge cables have such poor life expectancy that you now have to budget for replacements (which are not cheap, now that you are restricted to proprietary ones). I don't understand if that is a stylistic or quality/cost choice. When I go to West Africa, I use my Sony Ericsson i890 and the cable is still going strong! Can you imagine the life of an Apple cable in West Africa? 

The thing is, I was a real Appleboy. I have an Ipod, an Imac, Iphone and Ipad. This started when Apple was really on their ****. I'm only staying with iPhone now because of the seamless integration with my other devices and Mac. But to be honest, the Fisher Price iOS7 upgrade has forced me to play with settings and how I use my devices to such an extent that I am now looking elsewhere.

My contract expires around January. I _had_ planned on upgrading to an iPhone 6 but am now looking at Sony. And I get a free PS4 if I go that route!

I really hope they give me a reason to stay with them, but the Honeymoon period is really over for me; there's trouble in Paradise.

pH


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## Michael Colton (Sep 15, 2014)

I have a mix of different things. Apple phone and laptop, but not my desktop or tablet. Over time, I am sure I will move all of my devices away from Apple so there is more seamless use with my desktop. But with the deal I am getting switching to Verizon, the cost difference per month between the phone I was going to get (the new Nokia) and the iPhone 6 is too small for me to pass up.

And in defense of iOS7, minimalism in UI and design is very 'in' right now everywhere. It is not just Apple.


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## Flyerman11 (Sep 16, 2014)

I strongly believe that Android is better than iOS for the simple fact that it allows you to choose from a vast array of OEMs Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG, even Huawei and then choose the screen size and bells and whistles that best fit your budget.

Case in point, my wife uses a Samsung S4 mini, I have a Samsung Note 10.1 tablet (love the S-Pen!) and a (cheapo) Alcatel One Touch that I use when I visit the US (around 8 weeks a year).  Unfortunately my company _forces_ me to use a BB, but since they pay for both the phone and the service, I can't rebel against it. If I had my way though, I'd get a Note 3 (or Note 4 when it becomes available).

As for Apple, they are just trying to keep up with the many advantages and superior performance of Android.  In my case, I just could not justify buying an expensive iPhone to use just a few weeks a year.  I recently saw a video explaining the reasons iPhones are better than Android devices and the best they could do is say that Apple gives you just 2 choices of phone, (because it's confusing to choose from the hundreds of Androids).

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.


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## Flyerman11 (Sep 16, 2014)

Brian Turner said:


> IMO Apple really need to go back to their roots and look again at how they use iTunes and manage music.
> To me, the recent U2 debacle really highlights this.



Totally agree with you!

I've gotten several free songs and albums from the Google Play store, but never had one added to my library without my consent. I have declined to "buy" several offered for free that did not interest me.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 18, 2014)

iOS8 sounds like a bit of a monster:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29251961

I might not have enough space to download and install it, either!


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## markpud (Sep 18, 2014)

What's the big deal of U2? Just checked my iPad's music app and the album is there, but not actually downloaded. Had to click the "cloud" icon to bring it down. But then again I do have "automatic updates" turned off in the settings, like any sane person 


Brian Turner said:


> I might not have enough space to download and install it, either!


I do - just, but am in no rush... my iPad2 struggles enough with it's daily life these days. Apps spontaneously close when it runs out of memory!


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## Highlander II (Sep 19, 2014)

I always wait a few sub-iterations of the new iOS before I update.  They always come up with 7 or 8 things they had to fix.


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## Flyerman11 (Sep 19, 2014)

Brian Turner said:


> iOS8 sounds like a bit of a monster:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29251961
> 
> I might not have enough space to download and install it, either!


Brother in law updated via iTunes (today) said he only needed 1.2Gb.  If you do it via WiFi, apparently the rest of the 5Gb is for self-back-up.


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## markpud (Sep 22, 2014)

Smoothly updated my aged iPad2 to iOS8 today, via the cable into my PC. I think you'd be very brave/patient to do it OTA!

So far it seems like a very minor update as I cant barely find any differences...

On another note, I'd love any recommendations for a high-end Android phone, under 5". I love my HTC One (M7) but the M8 is too big...


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## Lenny (Sep 22, 2014)

High-end under 5"? That's a tough one. What aspect of the M8's size is putting you off?


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## markpud (Sep 22, 2014)

The size aspect 

I want a phone that fits in my hand/pocket comfortably, which the M7 is at the upper limit of. And one I can use as a phone without looking like a plonker!

I've been directed towards the upcoming Xperia Z3 Compact, due for UK release this month. I'll want to get hands on with a few devices before I decide though.

I feel dirty even saying it, but the iPhone 6 is in the sweet spot for me, size-wise.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 22, 2014)

markpud said:


> The size aspect
> I've been directed towards the upcoming Xperia Z3 Compact, due for UK release this month. I'll want to get hands on with a few devices before I decide though.



If you're already on a contract and just moving phone, you can't really go wrong with the Z3 compact IMO.

However, if buying PAYG then the Xperia Z1 compact would give you better value, without losing anything more than 4K recording and extended PS4 compatibility:
http://www.sonymobile.com/gb/products/phones/xperia-z3-compact/

I am still so surprised that Apple hasn't tried to release a waterproof iPhone.


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## markpud (Sep 22, 2014)

Yeah I'll be sticking with my voda contract thanks to the handy corporate discount I get from work 

Waterproof isn't high on my list of wants, but it seems to be a nice addition to some android phones recently. Handy if I drop it in a pint I guess


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 22, 2014)

My HTC Desire HD died when I accidentally dropped it in a rock pool. It was an expensive mistake, and not one I want to repeat!

iPhones apparently have a nasty habit of diving into toilets. Mine goes nowhere near the bathroom. But my wife happily listens to music in the bath on her Xperia Z1.


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 25, 2014)

It looks like Apple royally screwed up:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29358986

iOS 8 = iOS 7.1 + serious bugs!


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## markpud (Sep 25, 2014)

8 has actually fixed some of the instability my ipad was experiencing with apps spontaneously closing due to presumably a lack of memory. Or it could have been the JB


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## markpud (Sep 28, 2014)

Got my hands on a friend's Galaxy S5 and I must say it doesn't feel as massive as I thought it would. Light and thin, fits in my front pocket easily too. 

Maybe I've been too negative about giant phones, but I'll need to have a play with an M8 before making the final decision. 

Whatever I go for I'm thinking it'll be a stop-gap til something awesome comes out in the next 12-18 months!!


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## Brian G Turner (Aug 26, 2019)

My wife's Xperia Z1 is on its way out, so I'm now using it as an MP3 player. However, testing it against my old iPhone 5 the Xperia's sound quality isn't so good, and music jumps when the phone is turned around and the screen moves with that. Also, having a headphone socket at the top of the phone makes little sense, as it results in wires going over the phone. So I think the older iPhone definitely has the edge over the older Xperia in terms of quality and design. I'm not so sure I'd want to shell out for a new iPhone in future, but I'd be happy with a 128GB iPod.  Especially as I just don't need a mobile phone - I almost never use the phone function.


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## REBerg (Aug 26, 2019)

I'm using (and still paying for) a Samsung Galaxy Note 9.
I picked the phone for it's handwritten note-taking ability because I was tired with trying to find paper and pen whenever I unexpectedly needed to jot something down. It has other qualities I appreciate, including a big screen, HD camera, fast processor and long battery life. The Note also has a lot of additional features I may never use.
It has a high price, but a two-year, interest-free payment schedule put it within reach.


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## Grendel (Aug 26, 2019)

I just got the Note 9 a week ago and love it. I upgraded from a S6 Edge. Huge difference. The pen feature is unique and a bonus feature!


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## Danny McG (Aug 26, 2019)

REBerg said:


> and long battery life


That's the major issue nowadays isn't it?
We spend so much time online that phone batteries can't keep up, it doesn't help that most new smartphones have a non-removable  battery.

My last phone was a Samsung J5 and I had it about three years, after the first year the charge wasn't lasting as long. I saw a broken (smashed screen) identical phone on local Facebook for a tenner. I soon learned it still functioned for charging and it's battery was fine.

Sorted!
I was going out with a fully charged phone and a fully charged replacement battery in my pocket every day, until the phone got too old and creaky


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## Parson (Aug 26, 2019)

My previous phone, a Samsung Galaxy 6 was sealed so that you could not trade batteries. I think that's the way most? all? phones are going now. You know, planned obsolescence to keep the money rolling in. 

Recently purchased a Pixel 2. As you might expect, the camera functions are great! and the rest seems at least adequate (I'm not a "on my phone" for everything kinda person.) so probably not the best person to ask. It's very good for pod casts and the like.


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 26, 2019)

Parson said:


> My previous phone, a Samsung Galaxy 6 was sealed so that you could not trade batteries. I think that's the way most? all? phones are going now. You know, planned obsolescence to keep the money rolling in.



At least they have standardised the power adaptor connections. I used to have a whole drawer solely with various formats of adaptors for different phones. 

Now I usually charge it off my PC. (Which makes it very easy to transfer files back and forward too!)


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## Parson (Aug 26, 2019)

Venusian Broon said:


> At least they have standardised the power adaptor connections. I used to have a whole drawer solely with various formats of adaptors for different phones.
> 
> Now I usually charge it off my PC. (Which makes it very easy to transfer files back and forward too!)



Sigh! not true. The newest Pixel and Galaxy phone have USB-C and I was made to understand that all of the newest phones are going that way, while for the last couple iterations of the Galaxy etc they use Micro USB. And of course Apple has always gone the we're too good to play nice with the other guys route. One reason I doubt I'll ever own an Apple anything.


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 26, 2019)

Parson said:


> Sigh! not true. The newest Pixel and Galaxy phone have USB-C and I was made to understand that all of the newest phones are going that way, while for the last couple iterations of the Galaxy etc they use Micro USB. And of course Apple has always gone the we're too good to play nice with the other guys route. One reason I doubt I'll ever own an Apple anything.



Mmm, my S-8 has the USB-C and it's two+ years old. But I guess that's pretty new.


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## REBerg (Aug 26, 2019)

Parson said:


> Sigh! not true. The newest Pixel and Galaxy phone have USB-C and I was made to understand that all of the newest phones are going that way, while for the last couple iterations of the Galaxy etc they use Micro USB. And of course Apple has always gone the we're too good to play nice with the other guys route. One reason I doubt I'll ever own an Apple anything.


My Note 9 cable attaches to the charger via standard USB at one end and the USB-C at the other end. It can be detached from the charger and attached to a computer for transfers and charging -- much slower charging, but still convenient.


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## Parson (Aug 27, 2019)

Venusian Broon said:


> Mmm, my S-8 has the USB-C and it's two+ years old. But I guess that's pretty new.



My previous phone was a S-7 so it's likely the change was made between them.


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## Galactic Bus Driver (Aug 27, 2019)

You know, I'm still using my Note 4 that I got on the cheap after the Note 5 was released. Six years on (and one battery replacement) and it still works as good as it did when I got it. There's a bit of burn-in where the on-screen keyboard shows, but it's only noticeable against very bright backgrounds. Best phone I've ever owned and won't give it up unless it just plain dies.

For those phones with sealed in batteries, most can still be replaced if you simply take them some place like Batteries+.  It's not as cheap as just slipping the case off and changing it out yourself, but it's still way better than ponying up for a new phone.

@Parson: It's funny that you mentioned Apple's proprietary charging port. They're only able to do that due to a loophole in the law. It's required that phones use micro usb/usb-c. Apple gets around this by not selling you a phone. Officially, the I-phone is a music player that can make phone calls where all the others are phones that can play music. It certainly is a good reason to not buy one.


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## biodroid (Aug 27, 2019)

I got the Samsung Galaxy S10e which is awesome so far, I prefer smaller phones to the phablets


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## CupofJoe (Aug 27, 2019)

I like my Motorola G6 play. Add in a 128 gb card and off you go.
The battery seems to last forever [4-5 days, maybe longer but I'm not a heavy user], the screen is nice and sharp. It still has a lot of Google Crap that I don't want but no more than any there phone I guess.


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## WaylanderToo (Aug 27, 2019)

A friend is ready to go for the Huawei P30 - mainly for the camera (which is said to be stunning for a phone camera and merely 'just' very good otherwise)


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## picklematrix (Aug 27, 2019)

I like Huawei a lot, but if the shenanigans between UK and China prevent updates, I shall get a Samsung next, most likely. 
The two are very similar imo, though Huawei is slightly better value for money, at least in the deals I have been offered.


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 27, 2019)

picklematrix said:


> I like Huawei a lot, but if the shenanigans between UK and China prevent updates, I shall get a Samsung next, most likely.
> The two are very similar imo, though Huawei is slightly better value for money, at least in the deals I have been offered.


Taking a step back it's amazing how much these things *cost*. I tend to get long contracts - so that every 2-3 years I get hold of the best deal I can find.

But over the lifetime of the contract I'm essentially paying a grand for the phone.

I mean ten years ago, a grand was what I would have spent on a pretty high end PC. (My current one is 1.3-1.4k moreoreless, but that's because it has a monster graphics card.)

Crivens, the phone was worth more than my first car - a 2004 skoda that I bought a few years ago.

I suppose it's me growing up with those dirt cheap Nokias at the turn of the century.

Having said the above, the amount of stuff I've done on this generation's smart phone compared to those basic phones almost makes it worth it.**


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## picklematrix (Aug 27, 2019)

Venusian Broon said:


> Taking a step back it's amazing how much these things *cost*. I tend to get long contracts - so that every 2-3 years I get hold of the best deal I can find.
> 
> But over the lifetime of the contract I'm essentially paying a grand for the phone.
> 
> ...


I spend somewhere in that ballpark too. Music streaming alone makes it economical, as I used to spend at least a few hundred quid on CDs a year. 
The younger me would be envious of anyone with something like Spotify!

And that's not even mentioning access to things like Maps when you are out and about. I'll never know how I did without. A car on the other hand is just a faster mode of transport than a bicycle. It's nice to have one, but I could live without, I'm sure.


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## Danny McG (Aug 27, 2019)

CupofJoe said:


> I like my Motorola G6 play. Add in a 128 gb card and off you go.
> The battery seems to last forever [4-5 days, maybe longer but I'm not a heavy user], the screen is nice and sharp. It still has a lot of Google Crap that I don't want but no more than any there phone I guess.


I'm on one right now reading this.
Somewhat dismayed to see they're now less than a hundred quid


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## Parson (Aug 27, 2019)

Galactic Bus Driver said:


> For those phones with sealed in batteries, most can still be replaced if you simply take them some place like Batteries+. It's not as cheap as just slipping the case off and changing it out yourself, but it's still way better than ponying up for a new phone.
> 
> @Parson: It's funny that you mentioned Apple's proprietary charging port. They're only able to do that due to a loophole in the law. It's required that phones use micro usb/usb-c. Apple gets around this by not selling you a phone. Officially, the I-phone is a music player that can make phone calls where all the others are phones that can play music. It certainly is a good reason to not buy one.



Two pieces of info I had no idea about! I am now quite aggravated because my last phone was far more than adequate, but the battery just was not lasting, and when I (not a heavy user at all!) can't get 14 hours out of a phone it's sure that the phone battery is not adequate.



picklematrix said:


> A car on the other hand is just a faster mode of transport than a bicycle. It's nice to have one, but I could live without, I'm sure.



Depends upon where you live. Out here on the plains the distances between towns start at about 10 miles, and unless you're lucky and live in a town with a hospital/Dr's office, grocery, and a place that sells sundries you are going to have to travel those kinds of distances regularly, and often in freezing weather.


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## WaylanderToo (Aug 28, 2019)

picklematrix said:


> A car on the other hand is just a faster mode of transport than a bicycle. It's nice to have one, but I could live without, I'm sure.



i have to say that I feel the same way about cars as Charlton Heston did about guns


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## Danny McG (Aug 29, 2019)

WaylanderToo said:


> i have to say that I feel the same way about cars as Charlton Heston did about guns


How did he feel about them?


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## Parson (Aug 30, 2019)

dannymcg said:


> How did he feel about them?
> View attachment 55749


I assume you know that Heston was the 5 time president of the National Rifle Association, probably better known by its initials the NRA.


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## Danny McG (Aug 30, 2019)

Parson said:


> I assume you know that Heston was the 5 time president of the National Rifle Association, probably better known by its initials the NRA.


Nope, I didn't know he was. I'd vaguely heard of the NRA but it doesn't mean much here in England


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 30, 2019)

Parson said:


> I assume you know that Heston was the 5 time president of the National Rifle Association, probably better known by its initials the NRA.



Yeah he's pretty well known for his role as gun-nut-in-chief here in the UK, from my experience. I can only assume @dannymcg doesn't have time for world affairs because he's got to keep his encyclopedic knowledge of SFF up to date .


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## Happy Joe (Sep 4, 2019)

Re; best smartphone...
The one that always has signal, except when camping, has the ability to disable the internet and all apps and basically, almost, never rings due to a spam/sales/scam caller...
I think mine cost $ 25 US (factory guaranteed, reconditioned/used, deal through my service provider)  and needed; a lot of setup to disable/uninstall most of the useless abilities that came preset up...  Samsung galaxy luna pro.
It would be better if it were smaller, thinner and only capable of making phone calls, IMO.

...Don't care about the internet or the camera; only tried to use the camera on my previous phone once (turned out increasingly foggy/unusable...

...its a PHONE... I have no use for a computer/camera etc. etc. in my pocket.  If I want internet or a computer, for spreadsheets, Cad, or a word processor; I will use a good high speed, computer sitting at the desk at home (while answering Scam callers on the land line).

Enjoy!


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