# Number layout phone vs calculator



## Astro Pen (Aug 17, 2021)

Does anybody know why phone number pads start with 1 at the top and calculators with 1 at the bottom?


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## tinkerdan (Aug 17, 2021)

I seem to recall that on rotary phones the one was at the top but to the right opposite the position that it is in the number pad.
Add to this that they always, here in the US, had the alphabet imbedded starting with ABC coinciding with the number 2.
My guess is that that combo made it more convenient to set the phones up starting with 1 at the top left followed by 2 and ABC.

As to the number pad for calculators--that mirrors the number pad for adding machines and for cash registers and once that had become the norm it was much easier to continue to use when they always had the same pattern.  It used to leave me in awe when I watched some of those book-keepers who would use the adding machine without ever looking at the pad.  They went blazingly fast.


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## Elckerlyc (Aug 17, 2021)

I could do that and knew instantly when I had hit the wrong key. Long time ago, another (pre PC) era. Book-keeping was endlessly counting numbers (ledger-account-no, dates, amounts...)
But that are only 10 keys. _My_ admiration goes to people who can type blind on a regular keyboard and with more than 2 fingers.


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## HareBrain (Aug 17, 2021)

tinkerdan said:


> Add to this that they always, here in the US, had the alphabet imbedded starting with ABC coinciding with the number 2.


This might be part of it, and is true in the UK too, though many phones didn't display it. I've never in the UK seen an ad (for example) telling someone to dial a particular word, but the third and forth numbers of area codes are tied to the alphabet. For example, Chichester, at 01*24*3:

2=AB*C*
4=G*H*I

Petersfield, 01*73*0:

7=*P*QRS
3=D*E*F


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## darcietyndall (May 3, 2022)

It's just necessary so that you don't confuse two different devices. Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote. I think the manufacturers are aware of this, which is why they did such a trick with different layouts of numbers. But now it doesn't matter because all smartphones use keyboards on which the numbers are in a row from left to right. I never miss the keys on new smartphones. And I also try to pass all the captchas correctly. By the way, I often use software to generate phone number. I don't want to leave my number on social networks because I'm afraid of online spammers.


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## Pyan (May 3, 2022)

darcietyndall said:


> It's just necessary so that you don't confuse two different devices. Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote. I think the manufacturers are aware of this, which is why they did such a trick with different layouts of numbers. But now it doesn't matter because all smartphones use keyboards on which the numbers are in a row from left to right. I never miss the keys on new smartphones. And I also try to pass all the captchas correctly. By the way, I often use software to generate phone number. I don't want to leave my number on social networks because I'm afraid of online spammers.


Just don't answer the puppy...


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## Swank (May 3, 2022)

I had to look at a calculator to confirm how weird it is: Left to right, bottom to top? Or, counting down, right to left, top to bottom? That in no way fits with any sort of western ordering paradigm.

So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.


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## HareBrain (May 3, 2022)

Swank said:


> So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.



I think it's simply that numeric keypads have the lowest numbers closest to the hand's starting position, which is at the bottom. The hand tracks from the bottom upwards in the same way that the eye tracks from left to right.


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## Danny McG (May 3, 2022)

darcietyndall said:


> Older people often confuse any keyboards, dial numbers on calculators, and try to call from the TV remote


Been there, done that


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## Swank (May 3, 2022)

HareBrain said:


> I think it's simply that numeric keypads have the lowest numbers closest to the hand's starting position, which is at the bottom. The hand tracks from the bottom upwards in the same way that the eye tracks from left to right.


What is special about the lowest numbers that they would be closest to the starting position? We don't use keypads to count.


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## Wayne Mack (May 4, 2022)

Swank said:


> I had to look at a calculator to confirm how weird it is: Left to right, bottom to top? Or, counting down, right to left, top to bottom? That in no way fits with any sort of western ordering paradigm.
> 
> So it is likely a system based on typing and number frequency, just like the letter keyboard.


The calculator layout preceded the telephone layout. It was used in early mechanical adding machines. I would say it is more logical than having one to nine followed by zero.


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## mosaix (May 4, 2022)

I don’t know how the original positioning of the digits was established for telephones but once it was I couldn’t be changed. The known positioning of the 9 on telephones is important for dialling the emergency number in the dark.


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