# 9/11 - 2011: Truth Coming Out



## Starbeast

9/11 - 2011
Truth Coming Out​


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## Starbeast

Watch the footage below, Bush is told at 0:05,
he stares at the cameras taking his pictures​


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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast

BBC reporting Building 7 collapsed,
before Building 7 collapsed​


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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast

Michael Hess changes his story later,
but Barry Jennings kept talking about what happened.​


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## RJM Corbet

Firemen on the scene. CBS NEWS FOOTAGE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmC_HKRu428&feature=player_detailpage


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## J Riff

Painfully obvious how it was done. The message is pretty clear too.
We can hope this is the last shot fired in this particular ancient 'war'.
Is there a way to make an even bigger fireball? 
Not without setting off a volcano.


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## Starbeast




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## mosaix

I watched the BBC documentary on Building 7 last night. The most telling part was the guy who said windows were only broken on the front of a nearby building and those on the rear were intact which was not the signature of explosive devices. 

I worked in Manchester near the law courts during the 'troubles' when the IRA were active on the British mainland. There were two bomb attacks in Manchester whilst I worked there. The law courts bomb was a fairly small device but blew out windows on the front _and back_ of the building where I worked. 

The other bomb, in a van at a cross roads in the main shopping area, was enormous and wrecked many buildings. But again, you could walk around the perimeter of the area and whilst the back of buildings weren't damaged most of their windows had been blown out.


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## Gary Compton

mosaix said:


> I watched the BBC documentary on Building 7 last night.



What was it called. I love programs like that!


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## Nik

Uh, doesn't US have a bunch of time-zones ??

Also, from what I remember of the TV coverage, 'Fog of War' applied. It was hard to track what had been damaged by crash debris, what was wrecked but still stood, what had partially collapsed, what had tumbled into the sub-levels...

And then the second Tower collapse created a new wrack...

:-( We were on holiday in Scottish Highlands. I was called from the depths of a very interesting book to 'fix' our small cottage's cranky TV which had jumped into the middle of a bad disaster movie: You guessed-- Station interrupted DayTime TV to bring breaking news. First, they thought it had been an appalling accident, like the struggling cargo plane which had crashed into a block of flats in Holland. Then the *second* Tower was hit, and news of Pentagon strike filtered through... )


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## RJM Corbet

Nik said:


> Uh, doesn't US have a bunch of time-zones ??
> 
> Also, from what I remember of the TV coverage, 'Fog of War' applied. It was hard to track what had been damaged by crash debris, what was wrecked but still stood, what had partially collapsed, what had tumbled into the sub-levels...
> 
> And then the second Tower collapse created a new wrack...
> 
> :-( We were on holiday in Scottish Highlands. I was called from the depths of a very interesting book to 'fix' our small cottage's cranky TV which had jumped into the middle of a bad disaster movie: You guessed-- Station interrupted DayTime TV to bring breaking news. First, they thought it had been an appalling accident, like the struggling cargo plane which had crashed into a block of flats in Holland. Then the *second* Tower was hit, and news of Pentagon strike filtered through... )



Yes, 9/11 is one of those seminal events that I think everyone remembers where they were at the time: I was having a beer on the restaurant coach of a train in Cape Town, when a navy guy got on and said, you know: two aeroplanes, etc. Then when I got off the train, it was on TV ...


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## J Riff

I'm not sure what the fireball thingies are made of, they were testing small ones around here, and they burn super-hot.
 There's a big replica of one of them downtown here on the main drag.
The truth about the human beings involved is crazy of course, but there were indeed four Arabs involved, and a definite internet connection to Bin Laden established, so maybe gunning the Binster did actually do some good, we can hope. The other people on that plane are the key, that and getting the fireballs aboard. Magnesium-based?


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## RJM Corbet

J Riff said:


> ... Magnesium-based?



... which would catch fire at a much lower temperature than steel, along with aluminium -- both of which materials are part of an aircraft's construction? Thermite, in effect. Jet fuel would get it going quite easily ...


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## J Riff

Those things burn for days, you can't put them out, I've seen one. Just a big blob of silver metal but once it's lit it would burn down through a skyscraper easily. No idea what they are made of, but very real, very dangerous technology there, helps keeps the truth from coming out, dunnit?
 The question I like is- what were they trying to burn in those buildings?
Some say unique documents, or certain select people. Whatever it was, it's melted to slag now.


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## RJM Corbet

J Riff said:


> Those things burn for days, you can't put them out, I've seen one. Just a big blob of silver metal but once it's lit it would burn down through a skyscraper easily. No idea what they are made of, but very real, very dangerous technology there, helps keeps the truth from coming out, dunnit?
> The question I like is- what were they trying to burn in those buildings?
> Some say unique documents, or certain select people. Whatever it was, it's melted to slag now.



Aluminium/magnesium in the aircraft body _might_ account for the thermite effect on the upper levels, combined with the sudden inrush of air to the upper floors when the aeroplanes broke a hole through. Let that one go.

But one of the many things that still does not make sense (building 7 aside for now) is how the towers crumbled to DUST. They didn't even find a complete phone in the rubble. Everything was pulverized -- in the literal sense of the word -- after _all three_ buildings fell completely neatly into their own basements at _freefall speed_ ...

*But the 'pilot's' passport jumped out of his pocket from the burning aeroplane and fluttered neatly out the window and landed in the street? C'mon!*


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## Nik

"C'mon!"

Such improbable things really do happen in crashes.

Like the one were the only survivor was a baby in a carrier. Rest of aircraft was smeared across burned hillside. Baby, IIRC, had a broken arm and a filled nappy...

Similar random weirdness happens in hurricanes and tornadoes. Thing is, you don't remember the boring crashes where everything was smashed and burned to a crisp.

Uh, remember the bombed plane that fell on Lockerbie ? It made a surprisingly *small* hole, but stuff fluttered down miles away...


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## RJM Corbet

Nik said:


> ...Such improbable things really do happen in crashes.



Rather convenient though, wouldn't you say?
The only document to survive?


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## Starbeast

Questioning 9/11 is growing.


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## Nik

I'm so sorry-- IMHO, you're losing sight of the essentials. 

The Twin Towers were designed to survive storm loads, errant commuter aircraft and modest earth tremors. They were not designed to withstand a well-fuelled, wide-body jet on a kamikase course. You have the horizontal guillotine of the wing-spars, the fuselage punch, the quadruple hammer of the engines, the fuel-air explosion of shock-sprayed fuel. And, yes, the impact jarred the brittle, fire-proof coating off much of the Towers' steel frame, exposing it to the prompt fuel and contents fire, dooming the structure.

The wonder, as I said at the time, was not that the Towers fell, but that they stood for so long after the crash...

Also, remember that 'Terminal Velocity' for a human is ~ 120 mph. Anything denser will fall faster. Most office appliances will disassemble given a couple of metres drop onto a hard surface. And, when those roasted girders failed, the stack of floors above fell like a gigantic drop-hammer...

Game Over.


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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast




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## RJM Corbet

Jesse Ventura is a former Governor of Minnesota, not some crazy hippie. 

Building 7? What happened there? I know ... just another coincidence. Folded neatly into it's own basement. Wasn't hit by anything.

And that passport? Just a weird co-incidence. 

What happened to the plane that hit the Pentagon? There wasn't any aircraft wreckage there. No wings, no nothing. Just an engine belonging to the wrong sort of aircraft. The PENTAGON has cameras EVERYWHERE. Not one camera captured an aircraft or even the crash itself ... the most protected airspace on the planet?

That morning, they were practicing _a drill of airliners flying into the towers_. Then the drill became real. A bit confusing for everybody? Contradictory radio messages buzzing around everywhere. Ground controllers asking: is this a drill or isn't it? We can't just intercept them anyway because a_ll the fighter aircraft are flying exercises out of state_.
Too many neat coincidences. Too many.

Thanks for new vids SB ...


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## RJM Corbet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP9Qp5QWRMQ&feature=related


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## Starbeast

RJM Corbet said:


> Jesse Ventura is a former Governor of Minnesota, not some crazy hippie. Thanks for new vids SB ...


 
You're welcome *RJM Corbet*.


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## Nik

Pentagon "Not one camera captured an aircraft"

You're wrong. There was singular footage shown of a wing-tip flashing by. Remember, this was an aircraft, and it came in *above* most of the traffic cameras' fields of view.

And, yes, there was ample debris at the Pentagon. There was footage of that, but not much, because of the hasty and rather paranoid security cordon...

IIRC, the engine *was* identified as belonging to that aircraft.

Besides, an aircraft that 'piles in' makes a surprisingly small hole. Only if it breaks up at altitude do you get a debris plume. Remember Lockerbie...

If you want a puzzler, it is that the aircraft hit one of the few Pentagon sides that had been retro-fitted with reinforcement against truck bombs & rockets. Otherwise, IIRC, the damage would have been much more extensive, probably penetrating to the open centre...


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## Starbeast

Nik said:


> If you want a puzzler, it is that the aircraft hit one of the few Pentagon sides that had been retro-fitted with reinforcement against truck bombs & rockets. Otherwise, IIRC, the damage would have been much more extensive, probably penetrating to the open centre...


 
Look at the photograph at 2:03 min.s, that's quite a lot of thick structures that this jet went through at an angle.


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## J Riff

Heck, I know their names and where they live, it doesn't help.
War at this level is fought using human tools - mind control people from the exact same programs I went through, they remember nothing.
 A big one of those things would burn right through the crust of the planet, don't ask me what they are made of, I don't remember.
 The real question is how to stop this kind of insanity from continuing.


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## RJM Corbet

Nik said:


> Pentagon "Not one camera captured an aircraft"
> 
> You're wrong. There was singular footage shown of a wing-tip flashing by. Remember, this was an aircraft, and it came in *above* most of the traffic cameras' fields of view.
> 
> And, yes, there was ample debris at the Pentagon. There was footage of that, but not much, because of the hasty and rather paranoid security cordon...
> 
> IIRC, the engine *was* identified as belonging to that aircraft.
> 
> Besides, an aircraft that 'piles in' makes a surprisingly small hole. Only if it breaks up at altitude do you get a debris plume. Remember Lockerbie...
> 
> If you want a puzzler, it is that the aircraft hit one of the few Pentagon sides that had been retro-fitted with reinforcement against truck bombs & rockets. Otherwise, IIRC, the damage would have been much more extensive, probably penetrating to the open centre...



*9/11 The Pentagon (Jesse Ventura 45min)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhLhK0HeU6Q

(At least they managed to find the black box of this one, but the cabin voice tape was inexplicably erased. The black boxes of the aircraft that hit the towers were supposedly never found. They trace them with radio equipment. They can retrieve them from the depth of the ocean. But somehow they never managed to find them? Never mind, they found the passport, four blocks away, lying in the road, so what else do they need?)


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## Starbeast

Once again, another excellent job of truth seeking *RJM Corbet*. It amazes me how much evidence that Jesse Ventura could find with his small crew of people, and how difficult it would be to fly a large jet into the Pentagon EVEN for an experianced pilot.

I'm trying to find footage of the "so-called" jet parts that were said by some people (who are afraid to come forward), to have been unloaded from a truck, then loaded back on the truck after the media had left. PLUS all the jet parts were also very clean and unburned. This would mean that the damage to the light posts would have to of been wrecked on purpose for the media to film. One last point, IF the wings of the jet struck those light posts, the wings would have been TORN OFF and found.

Check out this recorded footage of the explosion you see from another angle, a distance away from the Pentagon. (view at 0:39 seconds)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paWiZ2Y8fRg​


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## RJM Corbet

Starbeast said:


> Once again, another excellent job of truth seeking *RJM Corbet*. It amazes me how much evidence that Jesse Ventura could find with his small crew of people, and how difficult it would be to fly a large jet into the Pentagon EVEN for an experienced pilot ...



A Boeing passenger jet is enormous. If you stand next to one you think: how does something this big fly at all? I don't know the wingspan, but it's huge. It supposedly came in so close to the ground, at 120 knots _over_ the maximum speed tolerance -- the speed that engineers say would have ripped the wings off while it was still in the air. It was shuddering, vibrating, trying to shake itself apart with the strain on the wings, a few yards from the ground, where the slightest mistake, the slightest tilt, would have sent it cartwheeling.

Tip a pencil sideways, doesn't matter too much. That's a _Cessna_. Now try the same thing with a 12 foot length of builders wood and see how difficult it is to get it level again. 

Yes, then the wings sheared through, not one but a series of, lamp poles -- at 500 knots! It was that close to the ground. But it kept on _flying_, dead on target. People were screaming and crying, the pilot was under incredible stress, he was committing suicide. Yet he had not been able even to keep a _Cessna_ level? No matter how hard his flight-school instructor had tried to teach him.

One terrible pilot?

The fragile nose cone (not the heavy engines) penetrated through wall upon wall of super-reinforced Pentagon concrete, and about 5 minutes after the explosion, a woman holding a baby crawled out through the hole where it had hit, and saw nothing of any aircraft wreckage. And to this day, the only camera footage to have been released are _five frames_ of the actual fireball.

_Of course_ people don't want to believe it.


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## J Riff

This is going to be my last post on this subject or in fact any conspiracy/UFO related topics.
 I just posted a whack of text on a UFO board and managed to get a temporary ban even there, so that's a nice feeling. )
 Done. Feels great. Everyone wants the real truth about all this stuff, no matter how weird or unpleasant it may be, but things happen at their own pace.
 if another entire generation has to pass before the Galaxy, or at least the Solar system reveals itself to everyone on Earth - so be it. A guy can only do so much. 
 I will say, to anyone who has what they consider to be proof of any of these touchy subjects, to really be extremely extra careful about everything you say, online or elsewhere, because there are people who take these things very seriously, as they should.
 I will defend the CIA here, who virtually saved the world from being  controlled by drug gangs, which would have eventually turned out to be no fun for all of us, drug gangs included.
 What else...? Well, enjoy the show, and be nice to your fellow humans, and any Aliens you may encounter.


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## RJM Corbet

One has to keep a balance, Riff, if you want people to listen to you at all? Researchers should try to bring forward experts, or at least people who can give proof of identity, etc? It may be hard to find such people, but that's the investigator's job, and nobody's going to pay much attention unless he can? 

Personally I think most of the _credible_ 'ufo' sightings, by pilots etc, and often by multiple observers, that definitely do exist, are probably sightings of terrestrial aerospace craft still in the testing stages, which are obviously by now far ahead of anything we can know or imagine. The technology for anti-gravity type craft and even for star-trek type 'cloaking shields' probably does by now exist and would obviously be developed and tested in conditions of great secrecy. So the 'alien ufo' stories actually work in their favour.

But I still haven't heard anyone suggest the Pentagon was hit by an extraterrestrial 'ufo'?


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## J Riff

It comes out when it's safe.
People don't think it through.
If there's been saucers here for thousand of years, as the evidence indicates, and there has been no open contact...can't be good, noooo.
You may think it can't be worse than, say,_ Aliens or Predator - _unless of course it turns out to be ten times weirder than both of them put together.
 Well, it doesn't matter. We are registered at Galactic Central already, just waiting for the paperwork to come through.


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## RJM Corbet

All I know is that with all the billions spent on science, and all the brilliant minds and super computers and particle colliders and space telescopes, man has only been able to make sense of 4% of the perceivable universe, and the rest is other dimensions, unknowable to man.

I was listening to the radio this morning about the Thailand tsunami and a mother in Scotland who woke up that morning, knowing nothing about the disaster, but just feeling an emptiness in the world, something missing, and knowing that her son wasn't in the world anymore ...


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## J Riff

Nuts. People want a last word because they are conditioned to think they can't be fooled. Believe what you see and read at your own peril.
Control of the media was abject and total before you were born. Hearst was an amateur.
The galaxy is known, I hope you can see it before the curtain falls, I am amazed to see your age, RJ, would be the shock of ten lifetimes if you actually don't know what's what.
What are those guys called... disinformationists? Are you.... naaaah.
Run the Holloman Air Force base incident for us, and list the nutbars and their particular delusions if you want to actually talk about UFOs. It's been bugging ne lately because I remember it well and it is still irritating.
 Truth coming? Out. )


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## Starbeast




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## Nik

RJM, your point about holding the aircraft level is fallacious because of the sheer size of the aircraft. It takes *time* to respond to controls, losing wing-tip etc etc. It is 'logy'. One problem with wide-bodies is that pilots must anticipate maneuvers because of the inherent delay. They are not 'twitchy' like a cute Cessna...


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## RJM Corbet

Nik said:


> RJM, your point about holding the aircraft level is fallacious because of the sheer size of the aircraft. It takes *time* to respond to controls, losing wing-tip etc etc. It is 'logy'. One problem with wide-bodies is that pilots must anticipate maneuvers because of the inherent delay. They are not 'twitchy' like a cute Cessna...



Well obviously a pilot has to level the wings before landing, whether that would be possible at 500 knots, which is 120 knots over and beyond the 'red line' speed stress level the aircraft is built to withstand, after making the tight turn that was required on approach etc. is more difficult to believe from a very inexperienced 'pilot' when even the instructor who _trains_ Boeing pilots said: 'I wouldn't be able to do it.'

Couple that with hitting lamp poles and then connecting with the most heavily reinforced part of the building, penetrating so deeply, the dispute about wreckage, etc?

Anyway, I don't know. It's not worth arguing about.


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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast




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## Starbeast

Mossad Truck Bombs on September 11th​ 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKj6uJ5Mt4&feature=related





Dr Alan Sabrosky Interveiw


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## Peter Graham

Evidence comes in different forms and some is undoubtedly better than others.

Types of evidence which should be treated with extreme caution include:-

1. Self serving evidence. "If I had really robbed that bank, why would I have allowed myself to be interviewed on the news, saying how terrible it was that people robbed banks?"

2. Hearsay. "I knew a man whose brother said he knew a man who knew the Oxford Girl."

3. Circumstantial evidence. "I found Dave Ten Pint's shoe next to my burned out car. Therefore, Dave must have burned out my car."

4. Inexpert evidence masquerading as expert evidence, in which someone with no particular knowledge or expertise in an area professes to be an expert. We see this in the field of Young Earth Creationism, where academics in a field other than evolutionary biology use their unrelated academic credentials to give apparent academic credence to their views on evolutionary biology.

5. The evidence of academic or professional people being given greater credence in its entirety. Closely related to 4 and 3, and best seen in the treatment of the famous "Surgeon's Photograph" of the Loch Ness Monster form the 1930's until a few years ago, when the chap died. It had to be a genuine photograph, because an eminent London surgeon was not the sort of chap who would lie. Even though, as it later transpired, he was. 

It also helps to keep a genuinely open mind. Some folk like the Police and therefore believe anything a Police Officer tells them. We call these people "magistrates" (only joking!). Others hate the Police and therefore look for evidecne of brutality and coercion in everything the Police do.

A good little initial test is to ask yourself - "what is most likely?" An example:-

Crop circles are caused by hoaxers with bits of string and bits of board.

Crop cirlces are caused by intelligent extraterrestrials who eschew direct forms of unambiguous contact with us in favour of drawing pretty pictures in West country barley fields with apparently invisible and noiseless space technology.

Regards,

Peter


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## RJM Corbet

Peter Graham said:


> Evidence comes in different forms and some is undoubtedly better than others ...



There are obviously gullible people, and there are also people who look for conspiracies in everything. But the whole problem is that the lunatic fringe makes it difficult for reasonable people who look at all the problems and illogicalities around 9/11 and ask for ANSWERS from an elected government -- that they just don't get.

Start with the *black boxes*. *Why* weren't they found? No evasions please. Just an ANSWER.

It's absolutely ridiculous. They retrieve black boxes from ocean depths, inaccessible jungles; they are indestructible and they trace them by a radio signal. They _always_ find the black box. *This is the first time they haven't. *More than ten years later? They still haven't found them there, in the middle of New York city? Ok, there were a lot of firsts with 9/11, as they keep saying.

Yet they could find the *pilot's passport*, four blocks away, lying in the street? It had just fluttered out of his bag or pocket, out of the cockpit, out of the fire (which supposedly melted steel girders liquid) out of the window, and flew four blocks?

And that's just the start of the ridiculous coincidences around 9/11 that people are supposed to believe, and that if they question them, are laughed at as 'conspiracy theorists'?

Am I a nutbar for asking?


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## HareBrain

RJM Corbet said:


> Yet they could find the *pilot's passport*, four blocks away, lying in the street? It had just fluttered out of his pocket, out of the cockpit, out of the fire (which supposedly melted steel girders liquid) out of the window, and flew four blocks?


 
Actually, I don't think this is unlikely. The exploding fuel would push a wall of air outwards in front of the fireball, surely? Something made of paper, with a high surface-area-to-weight ratio, would be carried by this pressure wave and not be touched by the flames at all.

It's a bit more difficult to understand how the passport could be "free to fly" as it were, but not impossible.

No idea about the black boxes though.


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## RJM Corbet

HareBrain said:


> ... The exploding fuel would push a wall of air outwards in front of the fireball, surely? Something made of paper, with a high surface-area-to-weight ratio, would be carried by this pressure wave and not be touched by the flames at all ... not impossible ...



Not impossible. Very unlikely, but not quite impossible. But there is layer upon layer of such extremely unlikely coincidence around 9/11.

_First time it's happenstance.
Second time, it's coincidence.
Third time, it's enemy action.
(Al Capone)_


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## Peter Graham

Hi RJMC



> Start with the *black boxes*. *Why* weren't they found? No evasions please. Just an ANSWER.
> *This is the first time they haven't. *More than ten years later? They still haven't found them there, in the middle of New York city?


 
But this is circumstantial evidence.  You are drawing entirely unwarranted conclusions from the non-finding, which the non-finding itself does not necessarily support.

You are also making some enormous assumptions:-

1) How can you be so sure that the boxes were found? Just because it isn't very likely that they wouldn't be (which appears to be your case), or because there is firsthand evidence from some source to say they were found?

2) Even if they were found, why does the fact that their discovery is being hidden actively or necessarily support any conspiracy theory? How can one draw any firm conclusions about the content of the boxes simply from the act of hiding them? Your answer, I suspect, will be "_because if they had nothing to hide, they wouldn't hide them_". As well as being a self serving statement, that is also precisely the sort of argument that authoritarian governments use to justify clamping down on civil liberties. It's a non-argument. Perhaps the boxes have indeed been found but there are very good reasons for letting the perpetrators think they haven't been.

3) How do you know that there is no way that the boxes could have been destroyed in the crash? 

Look - you might be right. But what I see in all of these conspiracy theories is a lot of wishful thinking and half-baked cod-reasoning. As a general rule (and this is not meant to be personal to you), undue prominence and immediate, unconditional acceptance is given to any shred of evidence which on the face of it supports the conspiracy, whilst every other piece of evidence is subjected to an incredibly stringent analysis in which any slight inconsistency is jumped on as being "proof" that the piece of evidence is flawed and can therefore be disregarded in its entirety. 

Regards,

Peter


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## RJM Corbet

Peter Graham said:


> ... A good little initial test is to ask yourself - "what is most likely? ...
> 
> ... How can you be so sure that the boxes were found? Just because it isn't very likely that they wouldn't be ...



Please watch _SB's _video on post 43 in this thread. It's only 8min long ...


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## Peter Graham

Hi RC,

Thanks for that.

Please see points 4 and 5 of my original post.  What the clip shows is an architect professing to give expert evidence on demolition and explosives.

Gage claims to have studied steel frame buildings.  Fair enough, but bear in mind that unless a US architect is vastly different from a Briitish one, an architect is not a structural engineer.  The architect designs the building and the engineer works out how the thing will actually stand up.  An architect is not an expert on steel structures just by dint of being an architect.  By the same token, an architect isn't an expert bricklayer or a competent roofer simply by dint of being an architect.

Neither architects nor structural engineers are experts on demolition or explosives.  His opinion on how the building came down is just that - an opinion.  He is in no way an expert on the topic - or, at least, he has not presented any credentials to say that he is.  Therefore, his opinion has no greater credence that the opinion of an accountant or a milkman, or indeed of any other person who has no particular specialist knowledge of demolitions and explosives.

Similarly, he appears to have no links to the military or to munitions companies.  So, everything he says about thermite is also just an inexpert opinion.  I can't imagine that they teach architects about high-spec military tech.  It's not really what you need to know in order to design a building.

Regards,

Peter


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## Starbeast

*9/11 War & More*




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2BstcufsJo​


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## RJM Corbet

*BBC Clip:* http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14892377

*Full Interview:*
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ivoWW1-4U

2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0iaNMRjkno&feature=relmfu


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## Starbeast

*Dr Morgan Reynolds (who worked for Bush) could tell that 9/11 was an inside job.*​ 





 








 

*Amazing Facts: Twin Towers turned to dust and there is molten steel still red hot almost six weeks after the buildings collapsed.*​


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## J Riff

Told ya, you can't put those things out. Throw it in the ocean and it burns merrily away until it's done. Black boxes melted to liquid slag.
 Remember, every sprinkler in the buliding should have gone off. No ordinary fire, jet fueled or otherwise, could melt a building.
 Forget what it's called, thermalite something or other, but I watched one tested, and it was melting it's way happily into solid rock believe it or not.


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## Huttman

Was the Bush administration guilty of bad decisions? Did they have selfish self motivation plans to stay in office? Has our government in general over the past 30 years or so become increasingly more corrupt and self serving? Do they conspire bad ideas and then try to proudly cover them up when they go sour? The answer is yes to all of the above. Our government setting charges or allowing charges to be set in these buildings is in my opinion ludicrous. No building that large has ever been demolished. We don't know what all the results of such a collapse could have been. The fire did not take down those buildings, an impact of an airplane loaded with jet fuel igniting everything that was flammable weakened the structural integrity and the weight of the towers above the crash brought them down. The puff of smoke coming out of the side of the building was ejected by the top of the structure pushing down. The firefighter Orio saw only two small fires but he was in one stair case by chance that was not blocked. I'm surprised the towers did not fall sooner. As for WTC 7 that was right next to these massive buildings coming down, well they did say the tremors from the collapses caused basically a small earthquake. Perhaps that, debris, a weakened foundation from the two towers crashing down and whatever else happens in a tragedy like that participated in number 7's demise.

I think Bush knew something was going on from his intelligence community. They might have even suspected something with airplanes. Maybe this was a chance to allow something to take place that he could look the hero for a re-election. It was probably something much bigger than he expected, hence his reaction to his aide whispering in his ear. It was a look of, Oh God, it actually happened, but it's bigger than I thought it was. Stay cool, George, stay cool. 

This is all my opinion, and it does involve them somewhat, but more to a believable degree of whoops, not of, ha ha ha, they'll never see this coming, we'll allow the bad guys to fly planes into the buildings, but we'll put explosives in them first!


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## Varangian

RJM,

Black boxes (which are actually orange in colour) are, as you say, pretty tough pieces of gear. But finding on in open space (like the ocean, or in a jungle) where the jet fel would have been sprayed out over a large area, is understandable.

Those jets that hit the twin towers were only located in a very small enclosed area in which most of the jet fuel was also located. AVTAG is bloody flammable stuff and it would have most certainly melted everything in its path, the aircraft, unfortunately the passangers, and of course the black box. 

Occam's Razor works very well in the 9/11 argument.


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## Metryq

Or perhaps the towers were the first blades of grass in a very big crop circle. Aliens took the "black" boxes.


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## RJM Corbet

Varangian said:


> ... Occam's Razor works very well in the 9/11 argument.



It does indeed. Building 7:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9BofDUXv0&feature=related

It's easier to believe aliens did it ...


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## fleamailman

("...ah you're missing the point humans..." started the goblin now, continuing "...it's not whether something was true or otherwise, it's whether the plans enacted afterwards were justified in themselves, and whether they still remain justified ten years on...", simply, the goblin knew that the financial system was bankrupt today, that ourdearmedia was owned by a few, and that the _industrial military complex_, the one that president eisenhower warned one of in 1961, was probably unstoppable even unto itself now, whereupon the goblin just smiled, saying "...9/11 is missing the magician's slight of hand for what he wants us to see, where the course of event form 9/11 to 2011 tell you where the true agenda lies...")


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## RJM Corbet

Was this man capable of planning anything at all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lwbSdL2s00


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## soulsinging

J Riff said:


> I will defend the CIA here, who virtually saved the world from being  controlled by drug gangs, which would have eventually turned out to be no fun for all of us, drug gangs included.



Come again? I was rather under the impression that the CIA makes a lot of money off drug gangs.


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## soulsinging

Peter Graham said:


> As a general rule (and this is not meant to be personal to you), undue prominence and immediate, unconditional acceptance is given to any shred of evidence which on the face of it supports the conspiracy, whilst every other piece of evidence is subjected to an incredibly stringent analysis in which any slight inconsistency is jumped on as being "proof" that the piece of evidence is flawed and can therefore be disregarded in its entirety.



This goes beyond conspiracy theories really. It's basic human psychology... the confirmation bias. We accept info that dovetails with our previously held beliefs fairly easily, but will reject anything that challenges those notions to the bitter end.


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## RJM Corbet

soulsinging said:


> This goes beyond conspiracy theories really. It's basic human psychology... the confirmation bias. We accept info that dovetails with our previously held beliefs fairly easily, but will reject anything that challenges those notions to the bitter end.



Yes, it's probably easier to convince someone to accept a lie he wants to believe, than a truth he does not?


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## Huttman

So I've been looking into WTC 7's demise and I want to play devil's advocate with myself. It did have a lot of government offices in there. It was rather untouched by the tragedy next door. Perhaps they did have some kind of self destruct thingy like the Starship Enterprise. I know about the insurance adjustment the 'landlord' revised some months before september 11th. If anything, that was the motivation to completely start over with a clean slate and rebuild. The towers were a target for attack, we've known that since 1993. 
Ok, this is our government we are talking about, left vs. right, liberal vs. conservative, democrat vs. republican, this vs. that....blah blah blah. I'm amazed anything gets done in Washington at all. And it really does not. So much of what goes on there is self motivated garbage to better oneself. I still believe they could not have actually gotten together to formulate such a complex plan. Anything that goes on you can bet it is motivated by a money/power grab. If that ties into what happened on that day, it would not surprise me. Still, in my opinion, our government got caught by surprise as to the scale of this event.


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## Dave

Some people might like to read this new research:

http://www.demos.co.uk/publications/truth-lies-and-the-internet

and as the BBC reports it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15097139


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## Peter Graham

Dave said:


> Some people might like to read this new research:


 
Yes, but the BBC would say that, wouldn't it? The BBC has long been controlled by the same shadowy cabal of Illuminati and Thetan lizards who also control the CIA, the FBI, Mossad and the Milk Marketing Board.

This wicked group of power-hungry reptilians are hell bent on opening a portal to the fifth dimension, through which millions of almond-eyed aliens will pour. We can be confident about this because some bug-eyed fruit loop took time and trouble to upload his theory on the subject to YouTube. And if it's on an unregulated part of the Internet, it must be true.

Crop cirles are the helipads for the alien saucers. The portal is operated from nodes of ley lines, pyramids and badly hidden military facilities in the Arizona desert. A bit like the one on the _X Men Origins _documentary. The portal needs a massive burst of energy in order to be opened and this will be provided by driving the world to a nuclear Third World War. This is why the goverment have mocked up 9/11 and are suppressing the truth about the Roswell alien, the Kennedy assassination, the moon landings and the real reason for the demise of Esperanto.

Luckily, not everyone can be fooled. Small groups of acid casualties, burned out Vietnam vets, impressionable students, souvenir sellers and bearded men who wear tin foil hats know the truth and are trying to save us from ourselves. 

Open your eyes and ears, people, before it's too late. 

It's behind you!

Peter


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## Ursa major

I was given to believe that the almond-eyed aliens were the people of the Red Planet...









...united under the polity colloquially known as Marzipan.


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## Vertigo

Superb post Peter, and you are absolutely right of course. Except I think you forgot the nice aliens who are in telepathic contact with the afore mentioned cadre of last defense (except of course the ones with the tin foil hats; cunning ploy that one) and are deperately rushing to get here in time to save us from the bad aliens' invasion.


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## Peter Graham

Vertigo said:


> Superb post Peter, and you are absolutely right of course. Except I think you forgot the nice aliens who are in telepathic contact with the afore mentioned cadre of last defense (except of course the ones with the tin foil hats; cunning ploy that one) and are deperately rushing to get here in time to save us from the bad aliens' invasion.


 
You are quite right.  These are, of course, the same good aliens who taught us farming and in whose honour the Nazca lines were etched.  More recently, they have been reduced to communicating with the enlightened truth seekers through cryptic messages hidden in barcodes on cans of Duckham's Hypergrade or via the medium of portentous waffle recorded backwards on early Black Sabbath vinyl pressings.

It is also equally clear that megalithic structures were originally built as a conduit for our extraterrestrial allies.  Anyone who is prepared to cast off the cloying shackles of rational thought and trust instead to truth telling web savants who make even Erich Von Daniken look normal will be able to see that if you draw arbitrary lines on a map between Stonehenge, Maes Howe, the Ring of Brodgar, Castlerigg, West Kennet Long Barrow, Newgrange and Callenish, you get a nice picture of a spacemen waving at us.

Regards,

Peter


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## svalbard

Is that what it is? I always wondered


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## Peter Graham

Oh yes. It's like the Glastonbury Zodiac. But not quite as obvious.......


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## Dave

Okay Peter, you have me there, but how do you explain this:
http://www.elvissightingbulletinboard.com/SightingsArchive/Sighting1.shtml


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## Peter Graham

Dave said:


> Okay Peter, you have me there, but how do you explain this:


 
It's simple.

Elvis never died. His "death" was mocked up by the Pentagon who had realised that Elvis' exceptional singing and crotch wiggling abilities had to be extraterrestrial in origin. The government waited until Elvis had joined the US Army and then spirited him away to Area 51, where they subjected him to various tests. 

In the meantime, in order to avoid arousing suspicion, they replaced him with an android Elvis which was built by Nazi scientists who had fled to Argentina after the fall of Berlin and who had been covertly smuggled into the US in the late '50's.

The android Elvis malfunctioned in 1977 (or was it '76?) when a piece of gherkin got stuck in one of the capacitors. Luckily, Elvis' staff were all CIA and FBI spooks who were able to get the broken android away and replace it with the body of a recently deceased tramp, Buddy Grits.

In the meantime, the real Elvis had escaped from Area 51. For the last ten years or so, he has been waiting to rendezvous with the mother ship and is keeping low, holding body and soul together by earning a few bucks in low paid jobs which allow him to stay under radar and avoid detection from shadowy figures like that smoking man in the _X Files_ documentary.

Regards,

Peter


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## Dave

Again, it's hard to pick any holes in that. I can see you've done your usual comprehensive research here. There is no doubt of a massive cover up. We are all being controlled by our governments. I'm out of here. Might as well close the thread.


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