# Excalibur And GOT Similarities



## Eli Grey (Nov 10, 2018)

I just watched Excalibur for the first time this weekend. I enjoyed it. Did GRRM get his idea for the Lannisters from this? The young blond soon to be king is mentally unstable and is adorned in impenetrable golden armor. His mother, an overbearing blond haired woman who "played a game of sorts" with Merlin mated with her [half] brother? I know people have given other interpretations of gold being the color of the Lannisters but to me, it follows closely this deranged part of Arthur's family tree in Excalibur. 

Did George pull from this film or are the similarities coincidence?


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## Narkalui (Nov 24, 2018)

I definitely wouldn't say it's a coincidence, but the bastardy of Cercei's children is more heavily based on the death of Edward IV and Richard III's claims on the legitimacy of Edwards children.


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## Al Jackson (Nov 24, 2018)

Eli Grey said:


> I
> 
> Did George pull from this film or are the similarities coincidence?



I am sure George has seen this film, but doubt he took much from it, George says GoT owes origins to the historical event the War of the Roses.

House of Lancaster , associated with a red rose , and the House of York , whose symbol was a white rose, become the Lannisters and the Starks.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 22, 2018)

I like *Excalibur* and own it on dvd. Its a terrific fantasy film, but one of the biggest issues is the Armor, swords and shields.  Since its supposed to be set in the 5th or 6th Century , They wouldn't have Armor , Shields and weapons like that.  Also their equipment is from the mid to high medieval period. Also Camelot , its it existed wouldn't have been quite so impressive as it portrayed.  Camelot would be a wooden fort and not stone.


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## Al Jackson (Dec 27, 2018)

BAYLOR said:


> I like *Excalibur* and own it on dvd. Its a terrific fantasy film, but one of the biggest issues is the Armor, swords and shields.  Since its supposed to be set in the 5th or 6th Century , They wouldn't have Armor , Shields and weapons like that.  Also their equipment is from the mid to high medieval period. Also Camelot , its it existed wouldn't have been quite so impressive as it portrayed.  Camelot would be a wooden fort and not stone.



This movie had an odd origin. John Boorman , the director, had the option to make Lord of the Rings, he had even contracted with Sean Connery to play Gandalf but could never get the finance.
As I remember this 1981 film ran out of money and had to be stopped for a while.
Thee are so many versions of the Arthurian legend it is hard count.

Have you seen the 2004 King Arthur? It is supposedly 5 or 6 th century , tho why there would still be Roman forces still about is wrong. No plate armor but not sure there would be Roman style armor either. It is an odd film.
I think every one takes a Hollywood-ed-up setting for Arthur movies.


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## Venusian Broon (Dec 27, 2018)

Morgana was first made-up mentioned by Geoffrey of Monmouth (although by a different name) in the late 12th Century, and the film's particular interpretation of her story was (reasonably faithfully of some versions) taken by Boorman. 

I guess, the Arthurian legends may have been somewhere in GRRM's mind, perhaps, but I'd agree with Narkalui and others that the wars of the Roses probably had much more influence on most things ASoIaF.


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## svalbard (Dec 27, 2018)

BAYLOR said:


> I like *Excalibur* and own it on dvd. Its a terrific fantasy film, but one of the biggest issues is the Armor, swords and shields.  Since its supposed to be set in the 5th or 6th Century , They wouldn't have Armor , Shields and weapons like that.  Also their equipment is from the mid to high medieval period. Also Camelot , its it existed wouldn't have been quite so impressive as it portrayed.  Camelot would be a wooden fort and not stone.



It is based on Mallory's version of King Arthur so the setting is fitting for the story.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 27, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> I am sure George has seen this film, but doubt he took much from it, George says GoT owes origins to the historical event the War of the Roses.
> 
> House of Lancaster , associated with a red rose , and the House of York , whose symbol was a white rose, become the Lannisters and the Starks.



Have you ever read Maurice Druon? he wrote 7 book Historical fiction series about Phillip the IV . he the one who took down the Knight Templars.  On the edition is has the caption. The Original gaml Game of Thrones. 

These are the book  in the series. 

*1. The Iron King
2. The Strangled Queen
3. The Poisoned Crown 
4. The Royal Succession 
5. The She Wolfe
6. The Lilly and the Lion
7. The King Without a Kingdom*


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## Al Jackson (Dec 27, 2018)

BAYLOR said:


> Have you ever read Maurice Druon? he wrote 7 book Historical fiction series about Phillip the IV . he the one who took down the Knight Templars.  On the edition is has the caption. The Original gaml Game of Thrones.
> 
> These are the book  in the series.
> 
> ...



Had not heard of those.
Boy the poor Knights Templar , they sure get picked on, in the recent Scott film Kingdom of Heaven they are the villains, when during the fall of  Christian Jerusalem they were the opposite!
Have you ever seen the three volume set The Course of Fortune by Tony Rothman?  It is about the Great Seige of Malta , 1565,  these were the  Knights Hospitaller. The Knights , only 500 of them, lead 5500 others in defining a Turk force of 40,000 for 4 months, the Turks finally gave up.


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## Scookey (Dec 27, 2018)

Isn't it all a good example of how ideas evolve? How one good story inspires another, then another? As a kid I read every single Robin Hood story I could find, most memorably with the one where he is dying in a room with Marion beside him, firing an arrow for where he wants to be buried. They don't tend to include that part in films as it sort of kills the chance of a sequel (which never gets made anyway).
Anyway, my point is every great story is inspired by others. A lot in my books was inspired by a mixture of Thunderbirds, Space 1999, Star trek, Dr Who, Buck Rogers, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica and the Forbidden Planet. It is not so much the idea that is new but the way it is handled by the new writer.


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## Narkalui (Dec 27, 2018)

Scookey said:


> Isn't it all a good example of how ideas evolve? How one good story inspires another, then another? As a kid I read every single Robin Hood story I could find, most memorably with the one where he is dying in a room with Marion beside him, firing an arrow for where he wants to be buried. They don't tend to include that part in films as it sort of kills the chance of a sequel (which never gets made anyway).
> Anyway, my point is every great story is inspired by others. A lot in my books was inspired by a mixture of Thunderbirds, Space 1999, Star trek, Dr Who, Buck Rogers, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica and the Forbidden Planet. It is not so much the idea that is new but the way it is handled by the new writer.



And it all goes back to Gilgamesh


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## Scookey (Dec 27, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> Had not heard of those.
> Boy the poor Knights Templar , they sure get picked on, in the recent Scott film Kingdom of Heaven they are the villains, when during the fall of  Christian Jerusalem they were the opposite!
> Have you ever seen the three volume set The Course of Fortune by Tony Rothman?  It is about the Great Seige of Malta , 1565,  these were the  Knights Hospitaller. The Knights , only 500 of them, lead 5500 others in defining a Turk force of 40,000 for 4 months, the Turks finally gave up.


Isn't it the Templar Knights that give us Friday 13th for their ruthless slaughter of every citizen, women and children included, in a Muslim held city (the name eludes me at mo). Worth noting is when the Muslims took the city back, they spared the women and children. Sure the Templar Knights were great warriors but were they great humans? History suggests not.


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## Scookey (Dec 27, 2018)

Narkalui said:


> And it all goes back to Gilgamesh


What about Homer and the other early writers? Creativity starts with seeds, even very distant ones.


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## Narkalui (Dec 27, 2018)

Scookey said:


> Isn't it the Templar Knights that give us Friday 13th for their ruthless slaughter of every citizen, women and children included, in a Muslim held city (the name eludes me at mo). Worth noting is when the Muslims took the city back, they spared the women and children. Sure the Templar Knights were great warriors but were they great humans? History suggests not.


Acre.

You are correct, the history of the Crusades does show atrocities committed by both sides but it's fair to surmise that the Christians committed more than their fair share.

Oh and Gilgamesh predates Homer by several centuries, to my knowledge. Interesting thing about the Iliad: I can't remember where I heard it but there is a theory that all the heroes of the Iliad were all taken from their own stories. So the Iliad is essentially (allegedly) an ancient Justice League/Avengers...


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## Venusian Broon (Dec 28, 2018)

You youngsters, so much to learn 



Scookey said:


> Isn't it all a good example of how ideas evolve? How one good story inspires another, then another? As a kid I read every single Robin Hood story I could find, most memorably with the one where he is dying in a room with Marion beside him, firing an arrow for where he wants to be buried. They don't tend to include that part in films as it sort of kills the chance of a sequel (which never gets made anyway).



Erm...firing arrow for where he wants to die..done in the 1976 film _Robin and Marian _with the regal Sean Connery as Robin Hood and Audrey Hepburn as Marian. Was done as a 'imagine these characters at the end of their lives' sort of film.



Narkalui said:


> Acre.
> 
> Oh and Gilgamesh predates Homer by several centuries, to my knowledge. Interesting thing about the Iliad: I can't remember where I heard it but there is a theory that all the heroes of the Iliad were all taken from their own stories. So the Iliad is essentially (allegedly) an ancient Justice League/Avengers...



Gilgamesh clearly predates Homer by _thousands _of years, and in fact there is evidence that other stories even older were the prototypes for Gilgamesh. 

As for the Iliad, yes there is speculation that heroes such as Ajax and Hector come from earlier traditions (I believe there are lines that state that Hector's shield bangs his head and ankles as he walks away, implying he is wearing one of the really old 'figure of eight' shields that Mycenaean warriors actually used.)


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## Narkalui (Dec 28, 2018)

I remember reading the loosing an arrow at his death with Marion's help in book before I saw Robin and Marion. It's possible that the book was written after but I'm pretty sure I was told that is was part of the legendariam.


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## Al Jackson (Dec 29, 2018)

Narkalui said:


> I remember reading the loosing an arrow at his death with Marion's help in book before I saw Robin and Marion. It's possible that the book was written after but I'm pretty sure I was told that is was part of the legendariam.


I love Robin and Marian, what made that film was director Richard Lester, he always had and eye for world building in costume drama. What a cast! Connery and Hepburn have perfect chemistry. I think this may be the best 'Robin Hood' film.


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