# Alternatives to Amazon



## Hugh (Dec 3, 2019)

I've been increasingly lazy for several years in buying more and more online from Amazon or from companies that Amazon owns.

I'd like to start buying from alternative suppliers.  Does anyone have advice on this?

This article in today's Guardian got to me:








						Do you want to feel really good this Christmas? Boycott Amazon
					

The firm’s overworked warehouse staff have had to pee in old water bottles while their CEO is paid in a second what they earn in five weeks




					www.theguardian.com


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## M. Robert Gibson (Dec 3, 2019)

A search for "Amazon alternative" throws up a few sites with lists

Here are the top three from duckduckgo.com









						Best 13 Sites Like Amazon: Free Shipping, Better Deals, and More
					

Sites like eBay, Overstock, and Newegg can offer lower prices than Amazon, offer the same free 2-day shipping, and other great features, and we’ll explain how they do it. Learn about these 13 alternatives to Amazon, to determine if there’s a better option out there for you.




					techboomers.com
				












						4 Amazon Alternatives: Marketplaces To Help You Diversify Your Sales
					

From Walmart to Fruugo, Newegg and OnBuy. We look at four Amazon alternatives which sellers can add to their multi-channel arsenal.




					www.webretailer.com
				












						6 of the Best Alternatives to Amazon - Make Tech Easier
					

There are several online stores that are similar to Amazon. Here are some of the best alternatives to Amazon for online shopping.




					www.maketecheasier.com


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## M. Robert Gibson (Dec 3, 2019)

I've just found this site, which may just be the one we need









						Amazon Alternatives - Ethical Revolution
					

A list of Amazon alternatives to help us stop using one of the least ethical companies around. Includes an Ethical Book Search tool!




					ethicalrevolution.co.uk


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## Hugh (Dec 3, 2019)

These are really helpful, particularly the last one.  I will check these out carefully from now on whenever I get that buying impulse.
Many thanks indeed.


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## -K2- (Dec 3, 2019)

Just my opinion... nothing more.

Why not buy from local to you retailers? Most can order in what you want, they support the community through employment, wages and taxes... And it helps YOUR community and YOUR neighbors prosper. If you cannot leave your home yourself, and they don't have a website or phone (maybe they have teletype ), boost the local economy even more buy paying someone to go to the store for you.

I mean that sincerely. Why give strangers your money when you can help support your community.

K2


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## CTRandall (Dec 3, 2019)

For books that I can't find locally, Bookdepository is good. They can be slow but shipping is free on most things. For some books, I buy directly from the publisher (some smaller/specialist publishers sell directly to the public online).

For things other than books, I use Amazon as a search engine. Once I've found what I want, I look up the manufacterer's/retailer's own web sites and order directly from them. Every company has their own site and most have low shipping costs and quick turnaround times. For things I buy regularly (music, tools, art supplies, garden stuff), I've found a few specialized online retailers that have what I need. 

For me, Amazon is becoming an superfluous middleman.


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 3, 2019)

Local retailers also have my preference, as long as the difference in price is not too large. Otherwise small businesses that opperate online and are located abroad, like Jazz Messengers in Barcelona for jazz cds. Great packaging, items always arrive undamaged, whereas AmazonDE has recently downgraded it's packaging and all sorts of items started arriving damaged over the last six months or so.


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## mosaix (Dec 3, 2019)

Excellent thread. Thanks, Hugh.


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## Danny McG (Dec 4, 2019)

I just think it's wonderful that I can order all this stuff without moving from a comfy armchair.
Twenty years ago at this time of year me and my wife would travel forty plus miles and then spend a long foot-sore day going from shop to shop looking for Christmas things, all the while I was getting laden down with more and more bags and packages.

There would inevitably be a bit of compromise "Billy really wants 'A' but there's none in the shops, however 'B' is almost the same so he'll have make do with that"

Nowadays you can search worldwide!
Local businesses don't want to help too much IMO, some bored adolescent behind the counter who shrugs and says "no, there's none in the storeroom"


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## Foxbat (Dec 4, 2019)

I try to buy locally if I can and when I use Amazon I always try to buy from a 3rd party rather than Amazon itself.  I simply use it as a centre from which to buy elsewhere as much as I can.


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## -K2- (Dec 4, 2019)

Oh, just for the record (considering my above comment), I've never purchased anything, including services, from Amazon. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever purchased anything online... whoops, I take that back. I have bought PC components from newegg a few years ago.

K2


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## Hugh (Dec 4, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Oh, just for the record (considering my above comment), I've never purchased anything, including services, from Amazon. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever purchased anything online... whoops, I take that back. I have bought PC components from newegg a few years ago.
> 
> K2



Admirable admirable admirable



-K2- said:


> Why not buy from local to you retailers? Most can order in what you want, they support the community through employment, wages and taxes... And it helps YOUR community and YOUR neighbors prosper. If you cannot leave your home yourself, and they don't have a website or phone (maybe they have teletype ), boost the local economy even more buy paying someone to go to the store for you.
> 
> I mean that sincerely. Why give strangers your money when you can help support your community.
> K2



Absolutely.  Our washing machine, TV, toaster, kettle, hoover, probably other stuff too, all  come from an independent retailer ten minutes from here.  But this is a small seaside town without that many shops and there's stuff that they no  longer stock (or never stocked) because they don't have the space.  For instance after going into several shops to find a cheap 60cm bike lock with key not combination (not for a bike of course), I got fed up and ended up ordering it online last week.


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## Hugh (Dec 4, 2019)

CTRandall said:


> For books that I can't find locally, Bookdepository is good. They can be slow but shipping is free on most things. For some books, I buy directly from the publisher (some smaller/specialist publishers sell directly to the public online).



Unfortunately, I believe *Book Depository is owned by Amazon* (since 2011 according to Wikipedia).

Likewise *Abebooks has been a subsidiary of Amazon* since 2008 (Wikipedia again).  sigh!



CTRandall said:


> For things other than books, I use Amazon as a search engine. Once I've found what I want, I look up the manufacterer's/retailer's own web sites and order directly from them. Every company has their own site and most have low shipping costs and quick turnaround times. For things I buy regularly (music, tools, art supplies, garden stuff), I've found a few specialized online retailers that have what I need.
> 
> For me, Amazon is becoming an superfluous middleman.



Excellent advice!  Many thanks!


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## Hugh (Dec 4, 2019)

dannymcg said:


> I just think it's wonderful that I can order all this stuff without moving from a comfy armchair.
> Twenty years ago at this time of year me and my wife would travel forty plus miles and then spend a long foot-sore day going from shop to shop looking for Christmas things, all the while I was getting laden down with more and more bags and packages.


 yes indeed!



dannymcg said:


> Local businesses don't want to help too much IMO, some bored adolescent behind the counter who shrugs and says "no, there's none in the storeroom"


I've had that.


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 4, 2019)

Foxbat said:


> I try to buy locally if I can and when I use Amazon I always try to buy from a 3rd party rather than Amazon itself.  I simply use it as a centre from which to buy elsewhere as much as I can.


If a 3rd party has their own website besides their listings at Amazon that is likely an even cheaper option, e.g. Dodax.


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 4, 2019)

dannymcg said:


> Local businesses don't want to help too much IMO, some bored adolescent behind the counter who shrugs and says "no, there's none in the storeroom"


I used to feel joy at no longer having to negotiate myself past smallbusiness salespersons who frankly often act like bouncers with their haughty superior attitudes towards the plebs entering their stores, judging customers by their looks or whether they are regulars. But buying books and CDs online and not being sure if they will arrive in one piece has become a real issue with Amazon in Europe who have recently downgraded their packaging materials to their pre-existing North American standards, like the 100% plastic bubble mailer for paperbacks and hardcovers that will fit through a letterbox.

Nowadays, however, I value having knowledgeable local retailers who still operate where many others in other cities have gone out of business long ago. Like a good classical music specialty store is hard to find nowadays, even in Amsterdam, but here in Haarlem we have one of the best in the country. Or local (rock, pop) record stores that import audiophile (jazz) SACD reissues and even have a selection in stock (along with audiophile vinyl which I am not interested in). We have one of those as well.


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## Foxbat (Dec 4, 2019)

Av Demeisen said:


> If a 3rd party has their own website besides their listings at Amazon that is likely an even cheaper option, e.g. Dodax.


You're probably right but the reason I do it this way is that I don't need to input my card details (already in there via Amazon). My logic being that the fewer times I have to put these details in, the fewer opportunities for a hacker/scammer to get their hands on these details. I may be completely wrong with this but it makes me feel safer. You could say that I'm an Amazon parasite. I use them but try and limit the reciprocity


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 4, 2019)

Foxbat said:


> You're probably right but the reason I do it this way is that I don't need to input my card details (already in there via Amazon). My logic being that the fewer times I have to put these details in, the fewer opportunities for a hacker/scammer to get their hands on these details. I may be completely wrong with this but it makes me feel safer. You could say that I'm an Amazon parasite. I use them but try and limit the reciprocity


Right, that makes sense. In the Netherlands we have a payment system called iDeal which allows you to pay with your Maestro card instead of a credit card. The retailer will link you through to your bank's website via iDeal, you pay similar to logging in for internet banking by placing your card in a scanner, and afterwards get redirected back to the retailer. More and more international sites accept iDeal for Dutch customers these days. Including AmazonDE.


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## -K2- (Dec 4, 2019)

@Hugh ; just for the record, I was not smugly bragging about not ordering online, or deriding anyone who does. Whether my own ignorance, valid or unjustified fears, or whatever... I simply haven't. Eventually, not doing so turned into habit, and so it goes.

What I will say is, I don't receive spam at my emails because I'm not adding it to an online order form. People I know who do, seem to often find themselves flooded for years with unsolicited emails... how many are toxic/virus/etc., hard to say. But, what isn't is how these retailers also make money by selling every email address they get, feeling NO responsibility toward the client like a local retailer would. Naturally, if your credit information is not available online, you've protected yourself in that regard (somewhat), even further.

Understand, I'm not someone who pushes nationalism, but, when I discovered how many people make a business on simply offering the cheapest product they can find internationally, and only work as an initial contact to you... then shift your order to this guy, who sends it on to that, and so on, all to have Bob's Gifts in X-nation ship it from there (as though I bought it directly from them)... Well, I don't see that as helping my community, even my state or country. It's helping some guy who discovered a way to sit in his underwear all day, making money for doing nothing, and then casting my money like eroded soil round the globe.

In the end, many in that chain, even the end all manufacturer feels little to no responsibility for what they sell or how they sell it... that's what makes me hold my line.

Thanks for the topic!

K2


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## Hugh (Dec 4, 2019)

-K2- said:


> @Hugh ; Eventually, not doing so turned into habit, and so it goes.
> K2


And this is how I'd like it to be with myself and Amazon - after some initial effort and research I just get into the habit of using Amazon absolutely minimally or not at all.



-K2- said:


> @Hugh ;
> Well, I don't see that as helping my community, even my state or country. It's helping some guy who discovered a way to sit in his underwear all day, making money for doing nothing, and then casting my money like eroded soil round the globe.
> K2


That's just it: I'd like to be able to benefit local retailers rather than the underwear brigade.   Mind you, as @dannymcg pointed out, local retailers do not always make it easy for you to support them.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 4, 2019)

I've long bought lots from local shops, but this year in particular I've been cutting down on my use of amazon.
Hopefully will stop using it in due course.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 4, 2019)

For those buying CDs (posts above) I've found Discogs to be excellent.


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 4, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> For those buying CDs (posts above) I've found Discogs to be excellent.


I use Discogs mostly for rare out of print CDs, either new or second hand. As long as you stick to the sellers without grading issues, as is apparent from their neutral and negative feedback scores, Discogs is excellent, much better than eBay. You'll just have to accept the occasional disappointment.


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## Av Demeisen (Dec 4, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> I've long bought lots from local shops, but this year in particular I've been cutting down on my use of amazon.
> Hopefully will stop using it in due course.


I intend to only use them to buy large boxes of earplugs from now on.


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## CTRandall (Dec 4, 2019)

Hugh said:


> Unfortunately, I believe *Book Depository is owned by Amazon* (since 2011 according to Wikipedia).
> 
> Likewise *Abebooks has been a subsidiary of Amazon* since 2008 (Wikipedia again). sigh!



Gah! Evil buzzards!


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## Foxbat (Dec 5, 2019)

I like to buy locally but (in my area at least) it's getting harder and harder to do that. Take today for example - I'm thinking of buying a new guitar early next year and when I go into this mode, I like to search for info. Here's the rub. I have to travel almost 30 miles to get a guitar magazine (I really like Total Guitar). It might seem excessive but if I'm going to spend maybe  close to a grand and a half on a new instrument, it's worth finding out all I can. There are papershops locally that would order it for me but I don't want it on a regular basis, only when I have a serious purchase in mind. I wouldn't like them to stock it only for the vast majority of the time to be sent back because I only want it once or twice a year. 

But I guess it's a self-fulfilling prophecy - high street is dying because of online buying so folk look online instead for what they want - which exacerbates the death of the high street. 

P.S. One thing I'd never do is buy a guitar online. Always try before you buy.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 5, 2019)

Why not have one made specially? I paid £1,700 for Stelios Petrakis to make my laouto, for that sort of money you could have a beautiful instrument made in Britain.


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## -K2- (Dec 5, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Why not have one made specially? I paid £1,700 for Stelios Petrakis to make my laouto, for that sort of money you could have a beautiful instrument made in Britain.



Pfft... Don't listen to him.  Send me £1,500, and I'll send you a CUSTOM guitar!  
Bump that up to £3,000, and I'll send you the entire band's worth of instruments!!!
(between-knee cymbals extra)














 --------------
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




K2


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## Foxbat (Dec 6, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Why not have one made specially? I paid £1,700 for Stelios Petrakis to make my laouto, for that sort of money you could have a beautiful instrument made in Britain.


I'm not too confident on  what specifications suits me. For example, I keep reading about all these neck variations (wide, fat, D profile, C profile) and yet when I study these necks, I don't (or can't) match them to the descriptions. I know exactly if a neck suits me once I've tried it and, for that reason, I'd rather try existing instruments and see how they fit. I know what I'm after tonally but simply don't trust my instincts on describing how it should feel.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 6, 2019)

In that case, you don't need to go anywhere near £1,500!
For half that you should get a beaut.


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## Foxbat (Dec 7, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> In that case, you don't need to go anywhere near £1,500!
> For half that you should get a beaut.


Funny you should say that - I'd been thinking Les Paul with P90 pickups - very expensive and difficult to find (and this is where the online side of things come in handy) but recently started looking at Les Paul Specials instead that have P90s but are much cheaper and more plentiful. You can save hundreds of pounds just by going for an unbound fretboard. Again, online helps because I was able to watch and listen to a Special and I'm more or less convinced. I'll still try and buy across the counter locally (well if you can call a 60 mile round trip local). I like to support real shops when I can rather than Amazon or others like it.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 7, 2019)

Absolutely - couldn't agree more.
Support a local shop or a luthier.


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## Danny McG (Dec 7, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Absolutely - couldn't agree more.
> Support a local shop or a *luthier*.


Well, that was a word I had to Google!


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## Foxbat (Dec 8, 2019)

dannymcg said:


> Well, that was a word I had to Google!


Apparently the word is derived from 'lute' but because very few folk play these now, perhaps the term should be Guitarier (or in the case of other stringed instruments - Violinier, or Celloier, or Sitarier...I could go on but I'll save you the pain...)


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## Pemry Janes (Dec 9, 2019)

It's a little easier in the Netherlands, there's a couple of big webshops here and Amazon doesn't have a portal. You have to use the Belgian or German one.

Or you could go out into the cold and visit a physical shop. Actually found a good copy of Eye of the World in my local bookstore the other week for a good price.


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## Stephen Palmer (Dec 9, 2019)

Lute itself derives from the word oud.


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## Foxbat (Dec 10, 2019)

Stephen Palmer said:


> Lute itself derives from the word oud.


I didn't know that. Another piece of interesting trivia.

As for me, I have a wonderful local alternative to Amazon - a recycling/reuse shop. It's a place where folk donate stuff they don't want and it's sold on to others that do. I get loads of hardbacks for £1 or £2 each. When I'm finished with them, I just take them back to the shop and donate for the next person. It's a great way to not only save money but help cut down on waste, and all profits are donated to local charities

Interesting fact - there's a massive upright stuffed brown bear in the recycling shop right now (it must be ten feet tall on its plinth). God knows where it came from and who would actually buy this


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## soulsinging (Dec 12, 2019)

-K2- said:


> @Hugh ;Well, I don't see that as helping my community, even my state or country. It's helping some guy who discovered a way to sit in his underwear all day, making money for doing nothing, and then casting my money like eroded soil round the globe.
> 
> In the end, many in that chain, even the end all manufacturer feels little to no responsibility for what they sell or how they sell it... that's what makes me hold my line.



I agree, but I'd say this applies to most of the insurance and financial services industries, import/exporters, distribution companies... I think there was a lint in Firefly about most of the universe being a middleman.

Interesting stuff in here. My wife and I go back and forth on amazon a lot... I do like my kindle more than I am happy admitting, and having a toddler it's been really convenient to have staple items shipped to us rather than having to make hours-long Costco/Target trips to buy bulk diapers. Their labor practices are troubling, but I think they're more at the forefront of the future of work than anything else. EVERYTHING is moving towards "billable time" and corporate metrics and the like (in a previous sales job, it was "talk time" on your voip phone... everyone had to have X number of dials and Y amount of hours on the phone). I envision a future where anyone working on a computer only gets paid for the minutes their eyes were pointed at the screen, as determined by the computer's camera.

The trouble is the notion in the western world that humans only have value insofar as they are adding economic value. We're headed for a reckoning soon, where we have to confront that the scales have tipped and we no longer "need" most people to produce enough for everyone's survival. ALL of us will be underwear-clad middlemen.


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