# September Build Rejig - Advice?



## Lenny (Jul 27, 2008)

The original UberPC build that this is based on can be found in the UberPC thread. I modified that build to give me a more realistic UberPC (dubbed the RealisticUberPC), and I've since modified it further.

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*Mobo:* Asus Striker II Extreme NF790i, S775 (1600MHz FSB), DDR3 
*CPU: *Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme QX9650 3.0ghz (Yorkfield, 45nm, 1333MHz) 
*RAM:* 8gb Corsair TwinX XMS3 DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600mhz)
*Graphics Card:* 1gb XFX GTX280 XXX
*HDD:* Seagate Barracuda 250gb x2, Seagate Barracuda 1000gb x1
*PSU:* 1000W Xclio

*Monitor:* HyundaiIT W241D 24" Widescreen
*Optical Drives:* Samsung DVD Drive

*Case:* Coolermaster Stacker 830 Evolution 'nVidia' Special Edition

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/Lenny1882/Rejig1.jpg

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Altogether, that's *£2,892.83*. I know I can shave more off (different PSU, different graphics card, lower spec CPU), but unless I get the same spec for cheaper, I don't really want to (I quite like the idea of 8gb RAM, a 3ghz quad core, and a graphics card I could annihilate Crysis with).

That's not to say that I don't want advice, though. Heck, the thread is set up so I can ask for advice.

For example, I know I can get the processor for £55 cheaper if I buy the OEM version, but do I really get it cheaper? Can I get a good CPU fan for less than £55 which is also better than the retail fan?

I'd also like advice on cooling (here's looking at you specifically, Commonmind! ) - my room gets very hot and stuffy, and my computer(s) is usually on for 7+ hours on a weekday, and more than 12 on each weekend day. The case is chosen partly because of its cooling capabilities (it can house a total of nine 120mm fans, and is big to boot so the airflow is good), but it's useless if I buy a handful of fans that need me to hand crank them. Advice on thermal paste will be welcome, too.

Anyway, the link below the specs is the price list, which also shows _LN#####_ numbers next to each component - if you enter these in the search box on Scan Computers UK: Computer Hardware - All you can view the product in question.

So there you have it. Pick away, oh tweedler buzzards! Gnaw at the bones of my prospective build lay bare, and tell the cook how he can prepare it better.

Thankee.

Oh, and I'll also be buying Vista 64-bit and XP 64-bit with the system (to accommodate the RAM, if anyone wants to know. I can get away with using my current 32-bit versions of each OS, but then I only get 3gb of my 8gb RAM), which knocks it just over three grand, but you don't need to worry about those.

EDIT: I've also been entertaining the idea of an Intel Xeon mobo, with dual-Xeon processors. If I get round to throwing a build based around that together, then I'll post it and the buzzards can have some dessert!


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## Lenny (Jul 27, 2008)

Someone on another forum has asked me if I've thought about shipping the parts over from America. I hadn't, but I've just looked, and let's say that it would cost me about £1400 _less_... well, that's without the monitor, as Newegg doesn't stock the one I want.

EDIT: It's a damned shame that Newegg doesn't deliver internationally.

Any other good US sites that might deliver to little old me?

EDIT2: I can shave another £80 off by buying a few things from computer hardware, components, systems and peripherals at the lowest prices from IT supplier Aria Technology (case, mobo, monitor).


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## Happy Joe (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't know about international shipping, I buy 80+% of my parts from Newegg, I haven't found another online vendor that has close to their customer service/satisfaction.

OEM processors normally do not include a fan and heat sink. I usually buy OEM processors, unless I can find a sale that has the retail version for the same price or only a couple of $ more. (The same goes for drives, and OSs (system builder version)). Note; the retail versions of drives/DVD burners etc. normally include instructions and sometimes include software bundles or cables that can eliminate the price advantage of the OEM versions, it pays to read the descriptions to see if you want/need the extras/instructions.

If you are not going to overclock it is hard to beat the retail packaged fan and heat sink for the price (be careful and read the descriptions I have heard of a few retail processors that did not include the fan and heat sink). The better fans and heat sinks, for overclockers, can get relatively spendy (look for sales) and noisy (also, they often do not inclued fans, overclockers like to change them to a personal selection).  Naturally the ambient air temperature has a lot to do with heat sink performance (you cant get lower than ambient unless you use some form of refrigeration) I would just go with a reasonably large/quiet case fan, maintain good wire discipline/routing/dress (makes a difference by affecting the airflow) and use the stock heat sink and heat sink fan, if not overclocking.

This thread over at Xtreme has a lot of fan/heat sink info (skip near the end for more recent heat sinks);
OCPulse Heatsink Showdown! Comprehensive Air Cooling Roundup - XtremeSystems Forums

Enjoy!


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## Commonmind (Jul 28, 2008)

Sorry Lenny, been busy lately and didn't see this until now 

I'm still a fan (pun intended) of Vantec Tornadoes coupled with a solid (none intended, that time) aluminum case and something similar to the Tuniq Tower or Zalman CNPS 9700 for your processor's HS/F. The 9500 can shave off a few bucks from the price at very little loss in performance, and as long as you've got some solid ambient temps (as Happy alluded to) you should be fine going with something a little cheaper that will still kick the socks off the stock cooler (meaning that you can grab that OEM processor). Here's a nice little comparison of all three that Anandtech did some time ago:

AnandTech: The Zalman Twins: 9500 & 9700 Air Tunnels

You've actually picked the exact case I would've recommended, only that I would change out the fans for something that packs a bit more CFM (like the Vantec's) and think about adding a fan controller for the noice -- because the higher the CFM, the higher the db, normally, and you'll want to make sure your PC doesn't sound like -- mine -- a jet engine during those times where you're not trying to benchmark/game/render/model, etc. Coolermaster cases have always been my case of choice; you just can't beat their build quality, features and overall airflow design. I'm currently using the Wavemaster, before that I owned three of their ATC-210's -- the 210's being my watercooling build case of choice. 

Not to confuse you here, but I'm also a fan of the Silverstone TJ10 (which is "ESA" certified) if you want to look into other options. 

3dGameMan.com - #961 - SilverStone TJ10 ESA Edition Case

Everything else looks great, though admittedly I glanced at it all very quickly because I was just about to head out the door.

Good luck man


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## Commonmind (Jul 28, 2008)

Okay, this is something I just noticed, but if you're getting yourself two 250 HDD's for (what I assume is) a Raid setup (hopefully 0), grab yourself two 300gb Raptors and make room for them in your budget. Trust me, they're worth the trouble if you're going for performance.


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## Lenny (Jul 28, 2008)

Not RAID, no - one HDD for Vista, the other for XP, and the 1000gb HDD for all my files.

Talking about Raptors, the case has a special slot for a Raptor, and I'm wondering why - what's special about them?

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I quite like the look of the Tuniq Tower 120, and I've found it for £30 - that and the OEM version of the processor saves me £25.

Can't find any 120mm Vantec Tornadoes, though.

Oh, and what about thermal paste? Is it worth getting some?

_EDIT: Been looking at some 120mm fans, and I've found a number that have very high CFMs... but what do I look for? If it's simply the highest CFM I can find, then I'm sorted, but I have a feeling it's not that simple. Highest CFM at a lower RPM?_

_An interesting one I've found is a Delta Server case fan - 4000rpm, 190cfm, 59dB, £20 a pop._

_I'm not too fussed about sound - we had this conversation in another thread. Jet engine = POWER!!! _


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## Commonmind (Jul 28, 2008)

Raptors are simply some of the fastest consumer-end hard drives on the market before moving to SSD (which you wouldn't want to do while running Vista, anyhow).

And there's no such thing as 120mm Vantec Tornadoes, that's why you can't find them (I should've specified, sorry). For replacing 120mm fans go for Panaflows, which perform close to Tornadoes, or buy 80/92 to 120mm adapters, like this one: 

80-120mm Fan Adapter Translucent Plastic UV Sensitive

Personally I recommend the adapters, though this is really, really subjective, and I know quite a few of my enthusiast friends who sit on either side of the fence and quibble about this very thing all the time. So decide based on your own preference -- or, whether you're willing to spend a few extra bucks for the added benefit of improving airflow.

As for CFM, RPM and DB, just remember that smart airflow wins the day, and the more air you push through your case (if airflow design is adequate) the more hot air you're pushing out. So, by my logic (and logic that has worked for me thus far) the more air I move through my case (CFM actually measures in velocity, not volume, but it works out to be relatively the same thing here) the better my cooling.


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## Lenny (Jul 28, 2008)

Can't find a Panaflo fan anywhere for the life of me.

I have, however, found a couple of alternative Vantec fans - the Stealth and the Thermoflow. The latter seems to be the better of the two to my untrained eye.

Also, I've found two versions of the Tuniq Tower - regular and 120-LFB. Other than the LFB having blue lights and being cheaper, I can't for the life of me see what the difference is.


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## Commonmind (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm not sure where you'd find them across the ocean, but I've picked a few of them up from FrozenCPU:

NMB-MAT (Panaflo) 120mm x 38mm Ultra High Fan w/ RPM Sensor -114.7 CFM (FBA12G12U) - FrozenCPU.com

The Stealth's go for lower noise and therefore are rated at lower CFM's (as is usually the case). Thermoflows can kick out quite a bit more air than the Stealth models, but as I didn't follow your links (sorry, in a bit of a rush this morning, been in and out all day) I'm not sure what the differences are in the newer models, I only know that there will be one.

Any Tuniq is a great choice, honestly. It's the design of Towers which makes it a good cooler (much in the same fashion that the two differently priced Zalman 9000's perform relatively the same) and not any of the added features (LED's, mounted fans, etc.).


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## Commonmind (Jul 28, 2008)

Oh, and definitely spring for good thermal compound. Arctic Silver, preferably.


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## Lenny (Jul 28, 2008)

The Stealth fan gives 53CFM, and the Thermoflow gives a max of 92CFM.

As for the Panaflo's... I've found some!!! Seems this is the only UK distributor: www.DorothyBradbury.co.uk - Silent & Industrial Fans - Panasonic Industrial (NMB-MAT, Panaflo) - 40mm to 172mm

And so that you don't have to click the link, here's a screen of the one I'd probably get (highest CFM of the lot, so it's a no-brainer, right? ).







As for paste, I was thinking about Arctic Silver if I were going to get some, and you've made my mind up for me.


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## Commonmind (Jul 29, 2008)

Excellent. 115cfm at 41db, not too shabby. I can't wait to see the benchmark results.  I'm in the process of putting together a new build myself (decidedly lower budget than your own and thus inferior), though I'm going to have to wait a while since the wife is about to pick me up a brand new MacBook Pro to do my writing on. (So I don't end my sentences in prepositions any longer). Gotta give her at least a few months for the remorse to pass before springing a new PC build on her.


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## Lenny (Jul 29, 2008)

I can't wait, either!  And I never knew there was so much to think about when buying case fans.

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I wouldn't mind seeing your build when you get round to it. Heck, I might be able to chip in with some advice, if you really want.


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## Commonmind (Jul 29, 2008)

If there's one thing I make sure and not miss out on it's keeping up with my tech. The question will be: how will my budget build -- done in 6 months or so -- stack up against your soon-to-be-a-reality, high-end build? 

I think we have the makings of another interesting thread...

...ooh, I'm kind of excited now!


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## Happy Joe (Jul 31, 2008)

Now you folks need to tone it down a bit... reading this is tempting me to do another build... and break the budget once again.

No reason or need, I just like building 'puters...
I don't have a quad core or DDR 3... Yet...

 ..."Get thee behind me"...

Enjoy!


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## Commonmind (Jul 31, 2008)

Fight the urge Happy -- if you'd like, we can go to the meetings together, I hear they're serving coffee and donuts (ironically I eat neither).


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## TheEndIsNigh (Jul 31, 2008)

Cat-pidgeons pidgeons-cat 

re heat sink compound.

Have you come across a metal foam material that is used to act as a thermal transfer material. Apparently it's impregnated with a heat conducting phase change liquid that improves the cooling affect many times over conventional compound. take a peek at this

Heat dissipation with pitch-based carbon foams and phase-change materials


I have a PC104 beast that uses some weird pink stuff with just a large chunk of Al and no fan (on the heat sink) and it seems to work fine.

Just a thought, since you asked.


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## Happy Joe (Aug 1, 2008)

> I hear they're serving coffee and donuts


Donuts! (Slurp).

Re: TIM (thermal interface material)/(heat sink compound) the above link sounds vaguely like a variation on a heat pipe. It sounds like they may be trying to improve heat transfer by using many micro heat pipes instead of metallic or organic particles. Or perhaps introduce a flow of phase change material through open cell "foam" to refrigerate the device. I would not expect a closed cell foam/phase change material system to be able to store enough heat in the thin space between the device and heat sink to make a significant operational difference, except perhaps in very low power disapating (pc104?) devices subjected to very occasional transient/power spikes.

I haven't tried the newest compounds but I have gotten the best results on oveclocked CPUs, north/south bridges and regulators with a thin coat of Arctic Silver 5. A small syringe lasts practically forever. 
I have seen some pink OEM material (which I took to be a form of wax) that was used in several contributors to the spare parts pile. My understanding is that practically anything that does not evaporate and will fill the very thin air gap between the device and the heat sink will (kind of) work as an interface material (back in the stone ages we used zinc oxide (the same stuff that people put on sunburned noses).

Enjoy!


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