# Women in Sci Fi movies



## lizzybob (Jun 2, 2005)

Hi.
I'm a media student and for one of my units i am concentrating on the representation of women in science fiction, fantasy movies especially Alien and The Matrix trilogy and i was wondering if you could help me with any views you have on that subject?
Your help would be very much appriciated. Thanks
Lizzybob


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## The Master™ (Jun 2, 2005)

Firstly, welcome to the board... 

Secondly, there has been an increase in the number of principal female characters in Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies... Though, you have to remember that film-makers are essentially men and writers are men and so there will always be a tendancy to write from a male perspective with male leading characters... Or there can be female lead characters who seem to have more testosterone than the men!!! (Ripley is a prime example...Though some would say that she is showing "girl power")

Principal female characters include: Ripley (Aliens/Alien3/Alien Resurrection), Janeway (ST:Voyager), The Charmed Ones (Charmed), Dorothy (Wizard of Oz), George/Milly (Dead Like Me), Tru (Tru Calling), Buffy (Buffy The Vampire Slayer), Pezzini (Witchblade), Electra (Electra)... Can't remember any more, but there are one or two...

Maybe the market doesn't show that Female driven series/movies can be that successful - though Buffy and Voyager were VERY successful...

Women almost always are portrayed as either the love interest or the damsel in distress or the evil witch... 

The market seems to be driven by young lads, young men, adolescents (male and female) who want to see strong male leads... As a role model or fantasy!!!


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## Amber (Jun 3, 2005)

As a sixteen year old female, I can definitly give this from personal experience lol. While as Master said it is true they are being more represented, there is still a woeful shortage of good heroines out there.

Most of the 'heroines' we're given tend to be scantily dressed young women, who rely on men to pull them out of difficulties. Witness Daredevil. The girl seemed perfectly handy with those skewers of hers until the lead turns up at which point she becomes wilting female. There are major exceptions- for example the woman in Terminator, and of course Ripley.

Even Trinity who though she's a great all purpose heroine, has to dress in tight black leather. I'm not saying heroines shouldn't have sexuality, but I am saying that shouldn't be their focus point.

But don't get me started on women in sci fi/ fantasy. I'd be here all night


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

Come on Amber, you obviously have some valid points to make - don't be a wilting flower now...


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## ne)(us (Jun 3, 2005)

ripley is attractive in a strange way.  Tis true though there aren't that many kickass women in sci fi.  The women in blade runner are portrayed in a strange way.  You have Pris who is teenage like but very kickass.  Zhora is a stripper and she also nearly kills Deckard.  In both instances the women are better fighters and deckard has to fire on unarmed opponants.  Rachel is strange because at first she is angry towards Deckard and saves his life but then she takes a submissive role.  I think this is to show she can be human even though she is a replicant but still once again sets a certain womans role.  I suppose in most sci fi women are gonna be portrayed in a certain way because its mainly written by men which is a shame really.


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## Amber (Jun 3, 2005)

I wouldn't describe myself as a wilting flower lol.

But it makes me mad to see heroines acting like they are no more than eye candy. It degrades woman, is what I think. I make a point of being self reliant and yet feminine at the same time (well hopefully.) I'm not masculine- not tall, and yet I would expect to hold my own in a fight fairly well. Why can't women in films do the same?

In Van Helsing, we have someone who is consistently outwitted by her male friend, and a Dracula with three brides whose only purpose seems to be to entertain him. Hmmmm

Such good role models you know.


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

What about the woman in Blade 2??? From what little I saw, she seemed a feisty one...

And then there is the Vampire/Werewolf clash movie... With the female lead... She kicked bottom...


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## Amber (Jun 3, 2005)

They are the exception rather than the rule though. I would rather they were the rule, and that woman didn't have to rely on good cleavage to get big parts in movies


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## ne)(us (Jun 3, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> They are the exception rather than the rule though. I would rather they were the rule, and that woman didn't have to rely on good cleavage to get big parts in movies


 
lol can you put cleavage on your CV as a qualifcation


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

Down with the cleavage???

I think that there are more of those particular roles appearing... But men like to feel protective - all that hunter/gatherer crap... And if there are more female writers/producers/directors then more movies like that will be made in all the genres... Not just Sci-Fi/Fantasy!!! 

Films like Ellen Brockovic (sp?) show that a woman can be a successful person on so many levels (worker/mother)... And again, this movie is a rarity...


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## ne)(us (Jun 3, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> Down with the cleavage???
> 
> I think that there are more of those particular roles appearing... But men like to feel protective - all that hunter/gatherer crap... And if there are more female writers/producers/directors then more movies like that will be made in all the genres... Not just Sci-Fi/Fantasy!!!
> 
> Films like Ellen Brockovic (sp?) show that a woman can be a successful person on so many levels (worker/mother)... And again, this movie is a rarity...


 
it would be cool to have a woman character like Ash from the evil dead.


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

One arm and the other is a chainsaw???

Or a complete screw-up who only wins by accident??? Nobody would ever believe a woman could be that stupid - Something to do with the double-X cromasone!!!


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## Foxbat (Jun 3, 2005)

I think you need to look much further back to see how things have changed. Take Flash Gordon (1936) and look at the role of Dale Arden within the serial: primarily tos cream, faint (and still look stunning) and be saved from Ming by a muscle rippling Flash.

Things have moved on but only as far as society allows - hence the more kickass role in newer movies but still containing that sexual element (tight leather etc.) Like everything else, woman's role in scifi/fantasy is only a reflection of womn's role in that society. As the female becomes more libiterated within society so shall her roles within movies. There you go, that's my tuppence worth


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Did you know that Ripley was originally going to be a man? Her sex changed in Alien, but her script did not. 

Aliens has been praised by feminists for its strong female characters.


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## Drachir (Jun 3, 2005)

Three heroines that have not been mentioned and who definitely don't need any rescuing are Lara Croft (Angelina Jolie) in Tomb Raider, Sydney Fox (Tia Carrere) in Relic Hunter, and Selene (Kate Beckinsale) in Underworld.  These three women have remarkable screen prescence and are definitely not females in distress.  

Although the female in distress is still a popular film and television motif, more and more women are being depicted as strong and independent, even dominant characters.  As for the sexual aspects how many of us would prefer any protagonist, male or female to be homely and overweight?


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Japanimation has always been filled with strong female protagonists, however I suppose any positive aspects of that become overshadowed by the amount of hentai material available.


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

Drachir said:
			
		

> Three heroines that have not been mentioned and who definitely don't need any rescuing are Lara Croft (Angelina Jolie) in Tomb Raider, Sydney Fox (Tia Carrere) in Relic Hunter, and Selene (Kate Beckinsale) in Underworld.


 
Forgot to mention Lara Croft, but she was in my head... Relic Hunter isn't strictly Sci-Fi/Fantasy is it??? And I did mention the last one - though I couldn't remember the name of the character, actress or film - but called it the "Vampire/Werewolf clash movie"... 

There is another series in the 1990's... I think it was called VR5 with another character called Sydney... Seemed to spend a lot of time in Virtual Reality!!! Crap series... Glad it got cancelled...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

i am very sorry, but angelina jolie's representation of lara croft in tomb raider was a joke. as for earlier 'role'models, red sonja, xena, bah! they have to be almost men to get some recognition. and lets not discuss the underlying hints of lesbienism that have to be present. This is the reson that ms maccafrey wrote restoree, to try to get some blanace to the genre. i don't know if you're concentrating on film and television only, but this book is an anti sexism book.
i'd also like to nominate the captain from pitch black, as a strong women in film. she manages to hold her own and retain an integral dignity without having to have a big strong man to back her up.


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

But doesn't the captain in Pitch Black die fairly early???

If you are talking books - Grass by Sheri S Tepper... There is a stong leading character who is a woman... An intelligent successful woman and mother...

Oh, and for a male oriented audience, you need to have a hint of lesbian interaction otherwise they'd switch over...


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Blatant sexuality in female heroes can be seen as taking away from their roles. But lets be honest, the action men and male leads almost ALWAYS get their shirts off at some point. "Women want them, men want to be them"

What's wrong with ladies doing the same?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

the captain (male) does, but the female officer then becomes captain (no one else left) and i won't spoil her fate
all sherri s teppers books have strong believable female leads


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

Vega said:
			
		

> Blatant sexuality in female heroes can be seen as taking away from their roles. But lets be honest, the action men and male leads almost ALWAYS get their shirts off at some point. "Women want them, men want to be them"
> 
> What's wrong with ladies doing the same?


because sexuality for women is not seen as a strong and positive thing. quite the opposite in fact. if a female lead were to act as say indiana jones, there'd be all sorts of critisim. she'd be portrayed as moraly loose and an unfit role model. yes its very hypocrytical and paradoxical, but unfortunatly its the way of the world


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Perhaps you are right. The same might also be said of James Bond. But I am pretty sure that the times, they are a changing. 

Alias is a big success down here. The female roles in NYPD blue have also always been excellent.

EDIT: I suppose that is not fantasy or sci-fi though.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

in conventional fiction, yes, the roles are becomming better and better. take fried green tomatoes (great film), there are the patricial cornwell novels with a fantastic kay scarpetta as the tough but fair heroine. the janet evanovich novels with stephanie plum taking the lead. however, in science fiction fantasy they still seem to thrive on scantily dressed damsels in distress. gak!
(please note, my online persona, and title have always been a subtle dig at this idiocy)


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Ok. you say Red Sonja and her ilk had to be almost men to get recognition. How so? Surely any fantasy hero who runs around in hardly anything has to have a strong physical presence? 

What would your ideal role be exactly?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

a real woman. someone that could be admired and aspired to. someone with brains, ordinary looks and figure, not some amazing amazon or tiny faerie. who doesn't agonise about finding a man! (big complaint for me is that so often women are portrayed as only being interested in shoes and men - see sex in the city) a three dimentional character with feelings and flaws, as well as strength and character. who is extremely comptetent and able without being butch!
the closest thing in modern sci-fi would be princess leia, in a new hope. she was intelligent and fiesty without compromising her femininity. she later became a bit obsessed with solo, grrrrrrrrr, and has become a parody of the part. but as originaly written she was very interesting


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## Vega (Jun 3, 2005)

Fair enough, but why is this such an issue for so many women though? I am not trying to say your argument is not valid, but you have listed the exact same things that can be said about male protagonists. 

I'd love to see a flawed, overweight and not that good looking male lead, in fantasy and sci fi that is. James Belushi comes to mind for contemporary movies...all the other unattractive males get supporting roles: Devito, Buscemi...etc.

Granted, the lord of the rings and the hobbit brought a new angle to that (in parts anyway.)


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 3, 2005)

its an issue because its not allowed. men have been able to have different leads and characters for decades, but women have been stereo typed and its still happening. the question is, how can it not be an issue?
(and thats just feminist issues, i mean i could really get going and start on the pathetic image of 'beauty' and how its messing up so many young girls, the proliferation of cosmetic surgury and make over shows where women are allowing themselves to become cattle in the television meat market!)


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## ravenus (Jun 3, 2005)

If you're not too narrow minded and can consider hypothetical social horror as a branch of sci-fi (like many sci-fi books/movies are, actually) check out the women leads in George Romero's *Dawn* and *Day of the Dead*. Meet women capable of taking care of themselves and handling situations, without being a stereotypic muscle-lined butch type.


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## Leto (Jun 3, 2005)

And to stay in comic-to-movie field, women and girls in X-Men and X2 are not really in distress. Nor, with maybe Mystique exception, oversexued.
There sex-appel is even toned down compared to the comics (one of the first to have strong lead female and later a strong lead black female)


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## Amber (Jun 3, 2005)

Another strong female I personally think is Alice from resident evil. She's strong, self reliant and pretty with it, and there you have it....

And don't I wish cleavage woiuld be on a CV


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## The Master™ (Jun 3, 2005)

Resident Evil??? You serious??? What a pile of "fetid dingoes kidneys"... The film is deplorable and the acting makes Ikea furniture interesting!!! Sheesh!!! She is not an actress, she's a model... "Just stand there, luv, and look pouty!!!"

You want a job based on your cleavage??? Thinking of pole dancing??? 

Trudi Canavan's trilogy had a VERY strong female lead, who evolved from a young innocent girl, through to a master magician!!!


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## Amber (Jun 4, 2005)

I don't mind the film Resident Evil- and hell Alice broke a man's neck with her legs and knocked a dog out with a kick. That's good enough for me.

And no I don't want to pole dance  I 'want' (read like the money of) to be a barrister


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## The Master™ (Jun 5, 2005)

Soooooooooooooo, what you really need to do is learn law, study for like 5+ years, put in your apprentice time, then in 15+ years, become a barrister then maybe a QC???

Pole dancer is a quicker way to get money...  And there ain't all that waiting... 

Okay, SO, she broke a mans neck with her legs (though I've never believed you could do that in real life)... Is that the sign of a good female lead??? Then we are doomed... What about lead females like Dame Judi Dench or Vanessa Redgrave or Maggie Smith... They command presence without the need to "kick ass"... They are able to do it much more subtly!!!


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 5, 2005)

Amber, I can teach you how to break someone's neck with your thighs


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## The Master™ (Jun 5, 2005)

And what is that likely to cost her??? More than her soul???


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm not after her soul, wouldn't know what to do with it anyway


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 5, 2005)

I agree, being able to do physical damage doesn't make a strong lead, male or female. i don't think many actors wanted such plumb roles as played by schwarteneger and van dam and stallone. a strong lead is in the personality. its writen with intelligence and sensitivity. its real, and in sci-fi that doesn't mean the lead can't have a phaser, just that the character should be realistic. i mean, look at startrek, tos. the roles of the women (very nicely parodied in galaxy quest) were to bring kirk coffe, or to repeat all of his orders. hardly realistic, unless of course we're talking male fantasy land


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## Leto (Jun 5, 2005)

Talking about Maggie Smith, some women in Harry Potter movie are quite strong (the role played by her and Hermione on top of them).


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 5, 2005)

yes, but unfortunatly very minor (with the exception of hermionie) which is often the role of strong female characters!
I also liked the Dot Matrix in spaceballs. now there was a strong female lead. although they did let her get a bit whiney towards the end.


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## Vega (Jun 5, 2005)

I think more female leads should have an open mind regarding nudity.


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## Leto (Jun 5, 2005)

male nudity you mean ?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 5, 2005)

i'm sorry, but i find full frontal male nudity quite funny


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## Leto (Jun 5, 2005)

No reason to be sorry, it's funny.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 5, 2005)

hehe


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## Vega (Jun 5, 2005)

Male nudity is disgusting and exploitive.


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## Amber (Jun 5, 2005)

lol. And women's nudity isn't?

And I'll accept the offer Tsu  Who can I practice on though?


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 5, 2005)

I'm sure there will be volunteers


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## ne)(us (Jun 5, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> Resident Evil??? You serious??? What a pile of "fetid dingoes kidneys"... The film is deplorable and the acting makes Ikea furniture interesting!!! Sheesh!!! She is not an actress, she's a model... "Just stand there, luv, and look pouty!!!"
> 
> You want a job based on your cleavage??? Thinking of pole dancing???
> 
> Trudi Canavan's trilogy had a VERY strong female lead, who evolved from a young innocent girl, through to a master magician!!!


 
resident evil is one of the worst movies i have seen.  A guy i know keeps insisting its a classic.  It annoys me so much he also thinks attack of the clones is the best star wars movie.  I know they say taste is subjective but come on!  Ah well shouldn't get worked up.


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## Leto (Jun 5, 2005)

Bad game, bad movie. No secret.

Strong women in movie ? Have a look at Fog by John Carpenter, the main lead is a woman, played by Adrienne Barbeau, with no overexposed skin and no over-testosterone attitude for a woman.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 5, 2005)

not seen, will add to the list


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## Amber (Jun 5, 2005)

Hey. I include women who can kick ass in my list of strong women


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## ne)(us (Jun 5, 2005)

Leto said:
			
		

> Bad game, bad movie. No secret.
> 
> Strong women in movie ? Have a look at Fog by John Carpenter, the main lead is a woman, played by Adrienne Barbeau, with no overexposed skin and no over-testosterone attitude for a woman.


actually i think the first resident evil game is good and 4 is apparantly amazing


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## polymorphikos (Jun 6, 2005)

You definitely do get a lot of strong female parts if you include horror films (and horror is usually a branch of fantasy). It's always the slightly-less attractive one with half a brain who ends-up killing the monster/slasher and escaping in some improbable manner, leaving various sexy corpses behind her. This is mostly due to Alien, as opposed to the TCM and its ilk.

The femme-fatale angle is often over-used, but it's just so very convenient as a plot device.


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

polymorphikos said:
			
		

> You definitely do get a lot of strong female parts if you include horror films (and horror is usually a branch of fantasy). It's always the slightly-less attractive one with half a brain who ends-up killing the monster/slasher and escaping in some improbable manner, leaving various sexy corpses behind her. This is mostly due to Alien, as opposed to the TCM and its ilk.


You mean like Velma instead of Daphne ?


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## The Master™ (Jun 6, 2005)

I was watching some old tv recordings over the weekend... And found an episode of a series called PREY...

Quite a strong female lead: Dr Sloan Parker, played by Debra Messing (of Will & Grace fame)... About a Bio-anthropologist who discovers a new strain of human... Shame it was so shortlived... Jan-Jun 1998... She was highly intelligent and not afraid to put herself in danger, but was surrounded by strong men...

Then there was Highlander: The Raven... With Elizabeth Gracen playing the Immortal Amanda... Young, attractive, sexy... A theif and over a thousand years old...

How come there were never any ugly female immortals??? There were a few plain looking male immortals!!! Take The Kurgan!!!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 6, 2005)

i remember prey. was quite good, higlander raven was lost on me. but my fave immortal from the series had to be roland giff


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## The Master™ (Jun 6, 2005)

Only 'cos he was a bad boy - and we know how much you like bad boys!!! 

Actually, aren't we going off track... Didn't the thread start about women in Sci-Fi movies??? Hope all this is useful to the young lady...


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

Mine was Methos, but that's another story...

Strong woman lead in Sci-fi movies... Ghosts of Mars ?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 6, 2005)

hehe, we always get sidetracked.
BUT i'm going completely off men! no offense meant. its now at the point where just about every man i know in real life (married and single) have hit on me. its like now i'm separated i've stuck a sign on my forehead!
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

At least they stopped while you was married... Best way is to ignore them, and if it don't works resort to foul comments on their anatomy. Good sailor insult in a lady mouth is the best way to turn off every unwanted men.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 6, 2005)

when i was married i fobbed them off with my husband! i'm to damn nice (to people, i'm not vain here or anything), people see me as an ear to be bent, afterwards! its just really narking me. being grabbed is never nice, but when its unexpected and from a friend! its so much worse.


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 6, 2005)

I've never hit on you, sry...should I?


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

I'm curious on what the sign says on your forehead, Ivy...


And Tsu... you never hit, only flirty, horribly.


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 6, 2005)

*Engage LIE mode*

Me....flirt....never ...


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## Amber (Jun 6, 2005)

Yeah Tsu you've never flirted


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

nope, never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever flirt... nope not Tsu... Tsu is horrible at it... Just horrible... 
Mai Lin sound familiar?


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## Amber (Jun 6, 2005)

Have you ever seen him flirt  ? Be fair...


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

you haven't seen Mai Lin, have you Amber?  Check this out Amber:
http://www.chronicles-network.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5882&page=2

He holds no regard for gender either... 
And I am being fair, kido... fair is my middle name...


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 6, 2005)

Ten dollah, luurve yoo long time.....


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

raise your rates, Mai Lin... it was $5


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## Amber (Jun 6, 2005)

Lol! That has provided me with my best laugh of today- not even excepting the animal cruelty thing


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

animals were involved?  Did I miss something? Or is that another thread your talking about?


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## Amber (Jun 6, 2005)

That thread that was deleted in the Discussion d#section...


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## Alia (Jun 6, 2005)

Yeah... I saw that, glad they stopped it...


Back to the subject... I have to say that the girl, Beal is the last name, who played in Blade Trinity was tough, love the bow and arrow thing!


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

just watching Return of the Jedi, Leia is a good example too. She has her cheesy moment, but no more than any characters.
and trying once more to put a thread here on track.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 6, 2005)

i've already said leia, but for me its before she developed her han solo fixation!


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

Understandable, frankly scoundrels like young Harrison Ford are quite "interesting". And you had to find something to satisfy young male teens.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 6, 2005)

i didn't mind han solo, its just that he became so important in her thinking. it limited her to being a single girl waiting for her prince charming


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## Leto (Jun 6, 2005)

That's a point, but she got testoterone (family board) to try to save him this way...


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## Amber (Jun 6, 2005)

As Tsu already knows- I dislike Han Solo


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## Leto (Jun 7, 2005)

To each one her own taste... Personnally I dislike Luke Skywalker.


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 7, 2005)

Who *does* like Luke Skywalker.....


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

I like Yoda - WHAT A... ERM... MAN/ALIEN/LITTLE GREEN GODDY THING!!! 

(oh, and Ivy, did I ever hit on you??? )

Luke was okay, but I kept wishing that the big white furry thing had eaten his head off!!!


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## Lacedaemonian (Jun 7, 2005)

Mate you would 'hit on' (sounds like domestic violence) a twitching corpse.


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

Hey Luke wasn't bad. Weird bulgy eyes though.

But hey at least he didn't go around pretending to be a 'big bold man' even if his sister did hit on him


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 7, 2005)

Star Wars...the incestuous saga....


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

It was rather..... 

Though you want incestous Star wars- look at the fanfics


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 7, 2005)

No, they are generaly written or populated by kids who missed the very same point that Lucas missed when he ripped off thousands of years of oriental philosophy to make his badly concieved saga.


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

Well thank God I don't write Star Wars fanfiction then  

You'll have to look for me elsewhere


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 7, 2005)

Why do I have to look, what's the incentive


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

Eh I'll have to think of that one. To be fair most of my fanfic is dross pure and simple. Though considering what it was like at the beginning it has improved.


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

You know you want to follow Amber to the ends of the earth... 

So, in Sci-Fi there is lesbianism and incest!!! Whatever next???

And Lacey, I don't like the corpses to twitch too much...


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> And Lacey, I don't like the corpses to twitch too much...


]

Because thats when you realise they are zombies and about to rip you apart


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

No, 'cos they never twitch to a rhythm.. And I get frustrated...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 7, 2005)

would just like to point out that my main complaint is against men in real life! the ones with a thousand hands! who just don't get the point. my comment was directed towards the berk who grabbed at me yesterday. not at anyone here!
and Just to add, i diddn't really feel one way or the other for luke, he was a bit whiney though. my faves were the ewocks (ok, i'm a girl). they were fantastic. its interesting to note though, that leia managed to befriend them, while luke, han and r2 were trussed up like chickens for roasting


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

Thats because the ewocks liked Leia's hair


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## Leto (Jun 7, 2005)

By ewocks you mean the annoying teddy bears at the end of the movie I always dream to taste as a forest barbecue ?

Wonder if Lucas has a fur fetish, after a wookie, several mini-wookies...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 7, 2005)

hehe, thats scarry!
did you notice, in the original three, leias hair was always without adornment (although well styled) but in the others, padmaes was always with something in it?


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## Amber (Jun 7, 2005)

Padme seriously annoys me. She is so not a good heroine


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

Padme was a very good role-model if not a good heroine... She was strong willed and forth-right...

She kicked some booty...

Always wondered why there were never any female officers on the side of the Empire???


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 7, 2005)

nope. fawning and very silly! not to mention a cradle robber! a right damsel in distress


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 7, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> Padme was a very good role-model if not a good heroine... She was strong willed and forth-right...
> 
> She kicked some booty...
> 
> Always wondered why there were never any female officers on the side of the Empire???


rubish, she couldn't even make a speach without prompting from that silly emporer man. and had to get 'annie' (always reminds me of the redhaired orphan) to fight her battles for her.
there were no female officers for the empire because the women were to clever to be fooled into working for a *******!


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## Leto (Jun 7, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> hehe, thats scarry!
> did you notice, in the original three, leias hair was always without adornment (although well styled) but in the others, padmaes was always with something in it?


Now the hair cut are problematic. How any women supposed to be 1 - fighting  all the time, 2 - on the run find time to get her hair like this. Too long to do. A simple braid, a classic bun (with pins in, always handy to pick locks) or even short haired (althought not my favorite) would be easier to handle.


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

Ivy, Padme didn't get everyone to do all her own fighting... She went into the palace on Naboo with a gun in her hand and fooled the Trade Federation in the first film...

And what is the use of having a champion, if you ain't gonna use him?? hehehe


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 7, 2005)

i'll give that she was written to be strong. unfortunatly the writers missed the point. which was further muddled by horrific 'acting'
didn't like her


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## WarlikeMenelaos (Jun 7, 2005)

Padme was just...ummm...weak, her character wasn't built up well enough and like Ivy says her horrific acting didn't help.

The only time I cared about Luke Skywalker was in ROTJ when he just walks into Jabba's palace, chokes some guards and later when they are out in the desert he says this line...

"Jabba, this is your last chance; free us or die."

Darkside Luke!!! Sorry, I personally love ROTJ because of the Emperor and his amazing lines.

"Oh I'm afriad the deflector shields will be quite operational when your friends arrive."

When it comes to strong women I think that Lt. Kara 'Starbuck' Thrace in the new series of Battlestar Galactica should get a mention. She isn't used as a sex symbol, she first came off like she was your typical 'kick ass' heroine but as the series went on you could see that she is screwed up (and knows it, seems to dislike herself despite her somewhat arrogant personality) because of the death of her fiance and the major role she played in it. 

Who would have thought that Starbuck would be a 3D character considering the Han Solo wannabe from the original series?!


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## The Master™ (Jun 7, 2005)

You thought Starbuck was sexy??? She had more balls that any of the men, and knew how to get the job done... Boomer on the other hand was a little more complex and suffering with some serious problems inside with her wet-ware...

Number 5 (is that the blondes name) was a hard nosed bitch who knew how to get Baltar to do as he was told - I think that showed that he was the weaker sex... And the President was a well written character too...


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## WarlikeMenelaos (Jun 8, 2005)

The blondes name is Number Six, even she has a somewhat interesting character. I can't wait for the second season of BSG!

President Roslin is actually the best but I didn't mention her cause I thought we were talking about heroines but I just realised that its about general women in sci fi. 

Only problem with Galactica Boomer is she probably is gonna die in season two (just a guess, I don't know any spoilers or anything) Caprica Boomer...well...she's fallen in love and pregnant so we'll have to wait to see with her.

I actually do think that Katee Sackoff (actress who plays Starbuck) is pretty but they've taken her away from that and made her look rather ordinary.


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## The Master™ (Jun 8, 2005)

I couldn't decide if the Cylon in Baltars head was named after The Prisoner or that stupid robot from the 80's!!!! 

I suppose that BSG shows women in different "states of being": The warrior, the prospective mother in love, the woman who uses sex as a tool, the leader with much to do and too little time to do it!!!! Then there is the deck officer, that seems to have a small part, but seems to be of interest... The one that was kissing the President's Aide...

I suppose there are times in shows where it is difficult to portray a woman properly, because all woman have too many facets and a complexity that most men will NEVER understand...

What about the women in Firefly...

Zoe - warrior woman with a great deal of passion madly in love with her husband
Kaylee - super smart mechanic, bit girly, and wants to be loved (and has a crush on Simon the doctor)
Inara - "Companion"... Graceful, talented, educated, cunning, not easily fooled (and has a crush on Capt Reynolds)
River - suffered at the hands of people messing with her brain, but still has the intelligence that makes her smarter than a planet full of eggheads, but is still a child at heart


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 8, 2005)

just a note, a women written as a super b1tch is not nessessarily a strong character. shes often just a stereo type. the reason we enjoy them is that at least they aren't simpering!
(i will be karen from will and grace! my hero)


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## The Master™ (Jun 8, 2005)

I don't think I know any super-bitches... I know some wanna-be's who fail miserably... I'M the biggest bitch I know...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 8, 2005)

i'd love to be. but i just can't manage the not caring about other people bit.


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## The Master™ (Jun 8, 2005)

I care, need to, to make sure that my venomous barbs do their insideous job!!!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 8, 2005)

use a blow gun? or do they shoot from your fangs?


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## The Master™ (Jun 8, 2005)

Just my sharp tongue... 

There aren't any TRULY obnoxious women in Sci-Fi, have you noticed??? Unless you count the big headed woman in Buzz Lightyear!!!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 8, 2005)

oh, i don't know. i can think of several!
hoshi in enterprise
comander troi in tng
that toothaching bimbete from LOTR
many others, though can't think of them off the top of my head
oh and of course padme!


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## The Master™ (Jun 8, 2005)

No, they were just annoyingly irritating... I mean TRULY obnoxious!!!

So, aggravating that you want to rip off your ears and gouge your eyes than have to put up with another minute of them!!!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 8, 2005)

yep all of those women do that to me. and that 'hard' woman from farscape. she really tweeks my mellon. not the blue one or the mystic one (though shes close).


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## Amber (Jun 8, 2005)

I hate any woman in sci fi, whose willing to strip off in the first episode, and do nothing else ever


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## Leto (Jun 8, 2005)

Could be valid for most series, not only sci-fi ones.


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## Amber (Jun 8, 2005)

Yeah, but sci fi does love women characters as sluts


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## Leto (Jun 8, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> Yeah, but sci fi does love women characters as sluts


Because sci-fi TV and movie producers are overgrown pre-teens which need to compensate.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 9, 2005)

amber, read restoree, its a protest against that and other stero types.. alternitivly, write stong women characters and get them published! its one of the reasons i don't write scifi


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## Amber (Jun 9, 2005)

I always write strong women characters


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## The Master™ (Jun 9, 2005)

I don't think there has been a profusion of naked women in Sci-Fi, has there???

Okay, some suggestion in a lot of them... You got male nudity in Firefly!!!


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## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

A big classic of Sci-Fi too : remember Terminator ?


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## The Master™ (Jun 9, 2005)

And twice in Terminator 2!!! 

What about the third???


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## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

Ain't know, haven't see it. About to check if there's one in Big Trouble in Little China.


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## Alia (Jun 9, 2005)

Big Trouble in Little China... now that was an interesting, but strangely good movie, back in it's day.


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## Amber (Jun 9, 2005)

I counter with Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, and use my hidden trap card to enslave you


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## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

No one can enslave John Carpenter's talent. That's it I'm off to enjoy this one.
Bye


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## Alia (Jun 9, 2005)

John Carpenter is talented!  Watched The Prince of Darkness the other day and still won't touch a mirror!


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## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks now I don't know which one of the 2 I'll watch. 
Maybe the 2.


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## Alia (Jun 9, 2005)

I would have to suggest to go with the first one... I haven't seen that one for awhile!


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## Winters_Sorrow (Jun 9, 2005)

Ya gotta go with Jack Burton & the Pork Chop Express 

(damn, now _*I'm*_ going to have to watch it!  )


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## Leto (Jun 9, 2005)

Were damn right, pals. Great movie, but no nudity... 

As a bit of tirivia, a James Herbert was unit  production manager on it, wonder if ihe's the same from the Rats fame.


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## The Master™ (Jun 10, 2005)

Answer: DOUBT IT!!!

And those films aren't Sci-Fi, they come under the heading of Fantasy!!!


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## Winters_Sorrow (Jun 10, 2005)

bwahahahaha!
TM trying to keep a thread _on_ course?
I must be in Bizarro-world or something!!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 10, 2005)

you just said bizaro, i think its definatly an odd day


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## Amber (Jun 11, 2005)

I've seen John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars... that was funny


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## Leto (Jun 11, 2005)

Not his best, but yes. Good female leads in this one too.


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## Amber (Jun 11, 2005)

Yeah they're pretty good....


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## The Master™ (Jun 11, 2005)

See, loads of female leads in Sci-Fi...  Just that MOST of the audience are male and prefer to see a male lead who gets the damsel in distress at the earliest opportunity!!! Ah, the equality of the sexes is great... *COUGHNOTCOUGH*


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 11, 2005)

Michelle Yeoh, Couching Tigar, Hidden Dragon....

Also, I used to train with a woman who had both a habit and a passion for breaking male groin protectors, whilst they were being worn.
Getting the damsel in her case wasn't something you particularly hoped for


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## Amber (Jun 11, 2005)

Scary stuff... 

Well I have no plans for ever being a damsel in distress


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 12, 2005)

*laughBUFFYsnicker*


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## Alia (Jun 12, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> Well I have no plans for ever being a damsel in distress


 I wouldn't mind being a damsel in destress, but it all depends on how good looking the guy is.  A rescue by a hero with rippling abs I think is every girl's dream.   


Has any one mentioned Sigourney Weaver, yet?


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## The Master™ (Jun 12, 2005)

Which of Ms Weavers parts do you want to discuss??? Her "Ripley"??? Done!!! Her "Galaxy Quest" part??? Not sure - but that was SOOOOOOOOOOOO funny!!! Or some of her other roles???

I object to all this "pretty boy" crap... 

"In order to be a considered a hero, you must be young, good looking, rippling abs, great hair and be able to kick some booty!!!"

Can't an older, plain looking, overweight, occasional good hair, not too good a fighter get the damsel in distress???  Just once, let the undercog get the girl... PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!! We can't all be every girls ideal... But we try in other ways...


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## Amber (Jun 12, 2005)

Well sure it'd depend on what my hero looked like 

But I personally think my ideal would be someone secure enough in his masculinity not to object to being rescued by a girl


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## Alia (Jun 12, 2005)

> I object to all this "pretty boy" crap...
> 
> "In order to be a considered a hero, you must be young, good looking, rippling abs, great hair and be able to kick some booty!!!"
> 
> Can't an older, plain looking, overweight, occasional good hair, not too good a fighter get the damsel in distress???  Just once, let the undercog get the girl... PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!! We can't all be every girls ideal... But we try in other ways...


 
There have been undercogs who have gotten the girl, look at Shrek (my favorite undercog, btw).  

It's a silly girl's dream, Master... and I never said anything about a requirement of him being young with great looking hair. My thoughts were simple, good looking with a nice body. Maybe I was wrong and left out the most important quality, Intelligence. And for that I apologize. I would want that more than any other description out there, good looking, nice body, great hair, young, yada, yada, yada, yada.... 
Intelligence is the most sexiest in a hero!  

Besides that' it's just a dream. Blame it on Disney with Prince Charming rescueing the girl if you want.


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## Amber (Jun 12, 2005)

Just had a funny idea for a thread on that theme Alia....


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## Leto (Jun 12, 2005)

Alia said:
			
		

> Intelligence is the most sexiest in a hero!


I'd add a good sense of humor (i.e. quite wicked).


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## Alia (Jun 12, 2005)

Leto said:
			
		

> I'd add a good sense of humor (i.e. quite wicked).


 OOOhhhhh, yeah!!!!    A good sense of humor is well polished with maturity!
*drools*


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## Amber (Jun 12, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> But I personally think my ideal would be someone secure enough in his masculinity not to object to being rescued by a girl


 
lol. Alia drools too 

I'd have to add intelligence, humour.

Just for the record the comment above does not mean i'd object to being rescued


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 12, 2005)

What would you want to be rescued from.....?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 13, 2005)

nothing, i can rescue myself. of course thats the point. someone who could think for themselves and rescue me just because it needed doing...


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## lizzybob (Jun 13, 2005)

Well guys this is all very useful, thank you ... but can i put us on a more specific path? 

I am comparing how Ripley (Sigourney Weaver) represents women in the Alien series with how Trinity (Carrie-Anne Moss) represents women in the Matrix trilogy. 

Has the representation of women changed over the time that these movies were made?   Do these changes (if any) reflect the changes of womens status in society during the time in which the movies were originally made? 

Any ideas would be useful as would if anyone feels like backing up their points with refence to the actual movies

Muchly appriciated


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 13, 2005)

I think Carrie-Anne Moss represented strong women very well in the Matrix...I would like to see more strong women wearing skin tight latex whilst spouting half understood references to gnostic philosophy.

It takes me to a happy place


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## Amber (Jun 13, 2005)

Well *blushes and is ashamed*

I've only seen Alien 2 out of the Alien saga, though I've seen all the Matrixes- so many times I can recite number one- a true geek's mind.

But I remember being impressed by the fact that when Ripley wakes up after the voyage, she is fully clothed. It'd have been sp easy to put in a nude scene. Besides I think it's good Sigourney Weaver wasn't pretty. Gives us ugly girls a chance to be heroines  

Trinity on the other hand disproved sterotype of pretty girl = stupid... but she didn't do well in the 2nd Matrix. Why bother having sex with Neo?


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 13, 2005)

I dunno...I wouldn't have had sex with Neo...


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## Leto (Jun 13, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> Well *blushes and is ashamed*
> 
> I've only seen Alien 2 out of the Alien saga, though I've seen all the Matrixes- so many times I can recite number one- a true geek's mind.
> 
> ...


You get a point here. 
In Aliens, romance is not needed to definite Ripley character. In Matrix(e)s, Trinity - no matter how strong she is - is first and foremost the romantic interest for Neo. And that put her back in the background of Neo. I'm not sure both movies are representative of sci-fi movies in their time (that's your job to tell us lizzy), but if it is, that's would be a regression to old traditional pattern.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 14, 2005)

i've not seen alien, but watching matrix, i must agree with leto. why the need for a romantic lead with neo? She also became more and more wimpish as the films progressed. Being able to wear spandex and make high kicks doesn't make a strong role model. Her actions outside of the fight scens were marginal. i didn't like her and would be extremly annoyed to find out that she is a rempresentitive of femininity!


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 14, 2005)

She is 

Are you extremely annoyed?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 14, 2005)

don't get me started babe. i'll rant on for pages and pages!


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 14, 2005)

So if I were to state that the character Trinity spawned a generation of young men who expect nothing less from their women than latex and high kicks, combined with an understanding of the state of reality and a certain moral laxitude....and for young women created a role model that is difficult to reach without great personal sacrifice and compromise....you'd have nothing to say?

How about if I simply said that she's really sexy in that film


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## Alia (Jun 14, 2005)

You know, Ivy... if you were a moderator all you would have to do is banned him.  Then you would never be plagued by his annoying attempts to egg you on into a rant...


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## Tsujigiri (Jun 14, 2005)

I see you don't like Trinity either....


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## Amber (Jun 14, 2005)

I can say I don't like Trinity... 


You know the high kick she does in the Matrix 1?

That's fake.....


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## Alia (Jun 14, 2005)

Tsujigiri said:
			
		

> I see you don't like Trinity either....


 Did I say that?  I never said that!  Did you want me to form an opinion of her?  

I was merely pointing out that you could be banned for being annoying, if Ivy had the power.


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## Amber (Jun 14, 2005)

Alia..... if you had the power we'd be crawling at your feet


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## Alia (Jun 14, 2005)

The idea of having power to ban someone just isn't me... 
Now the idea of having a man crawl to my feet is appealing...Extremely!!! 
I shall have to look into that!


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 15, 2005)

don't for get to wear sharpened stilletos.


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## Leto (Jun 15, 2005)

And say good bye to your ankles.


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 15, 2005)

one has learned that one does not actually try to walk in stilletos...
one keeps them for formal receptions where one is carried in an open litter to great ones adoring public...
(bwahahahahahahahahaha)


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## Alia (Jun 15, 2005)

> don't for get to wear sharpened stilletos.


 to keep them from biting my toes when I actually ban them?  Good point... 
*whips out note book*
*jots down 'stilltoes' and strong ankles*
Anything else I need, Ivy and Leto?


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## The Master™ (Jun 18, 2005)

We should go back to the SCI-FI movies of the 40's/50's/60's... Women in their best clothes being terrorised by aliens/mutants/blobs... And all they can do is scream loudly and faint!!! 

Works for me...


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## Amber (Jun 18, 2005)

But then.... how did the blibs feel at being so rudely rejected by their loves?

Would you know Master  ?


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 23, 2005)

he's to busy drooling over 'the fifty foot woman'
grrrrr


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## Rane Longfox (Jun 23, 2005)

Amber said:
			
		

> I can say I don't like Trinity...
> 
> 
> You know the high kick she does in the Matrix 1?
> ...


 
I would exclaim "NO!!??!!" here, but they'd all pick on me again


Apparently I'm supposed to contribute to this thread... hmm... can't think of anything at the moment. I shall mull during my biochemistry exam. If I fail, its all your fault


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 23, 2005)

we only pick on you cause we care.
good luck with that exam babe.


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## Rane Longfox (Jun 23, 2005)

I know, and I love you too


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## lizzybob (Jun 23, 2005)

any more constructive posts on the roles of trinity and ripley would be very much appriciated seeing as my exam is tomorrow


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## The Master™ (Jun 23, 2005)

I think we pretty much covered every aspect of those two characters... 

And I hope you are going to mention us in your exam...


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## lizzybob (Jun 23, 2005)

dont worry i plan on mentioning you all seeing as not many people i know have thought of using a forum as part of their research so i am hoping it will gain me more marks for being original as well as having gleaned some very useful relevant information


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## Leto (Jun 23, 2005)

Another thing you can mention : their clothes. Ripley ones are very down-to-earth and practical to fight, not that much the case with Trinity inside the Matrix. Outside it's a different story. Is she supposed to fantasify (sp???) herself as a leather dominatrix to fight the Machine ?


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## The Master™ (Jun 23, 2005)

Sometimes you find that SEX SELLS!!! And that can come out in the actresses used or the clothes worn, or something else...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 23, 2005)

No one can fight like that in those heals and that leather.
oooh the chafing!


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## The Master™ (Jun 23, 2005)

Baby cream or baby oil...


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## Princess Ivy (Jun 23, 2005)

baby powder more like


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## The Master™ (Jun 23, 2005)

Seeee... It is possible...


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## Alysheba (Jun 24, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> What about the woman in Blade 2??? From what little I saw, she seemed a feisty one...
> 
> And then there is the Vampire/Werewolf clash movie... With the female lead... She kicked bottom...


 
True, but the one thing I had fault with is that damn shower scene. Why is it that had to be put in the movie? Seriously? There was no point logically. The only real reason was to show her 1/2 naked. 

I like it when women in kick ass films are seen with a feminine side, but somehow the directors, writers etc... seem to have to link sex into a majority of the films that feature women heros. It shouldn't always be that way. Why can't for once the man be the b*tch? I'm starting to sound very feminist, which is not my intention at all. But as had been said before in this thread, Hollywood tends to dumb down some of their female heros in Sci-Fi flicks or action movies.


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## jjbrainstorm (Jun 24, 2005)

I am not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio's character in The Abyss is an excellent example of a strong female character who is not overly sexualized. Terminator 2's Sarah Conner (Linda Hamilton) is as well.


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## lizzybob (Jun 25, 2005)

well all your points were vaild but i have now done my exam ... yay! 

however feel free to continue with the thread if you so wish to


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## Leto (Jun 25, 2005)

And how you exam went ?


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## The Master™ (Jun 25, 2005)

Alysheba said:
			
		

> True, but the one thing I had fault with is that damn shower scene. Why is it that had to be put in the movie? Seriously? There was no point logically. The only real reason was to show her 1/2 naked.
> 
> I like it when women in kick ass films are seen with a feminine side, but somehow the directors, writers etc... seem to have to link sex into a majority of the films that feature women heros. It shouldn't always be that way. Why can't for once the man be the b*tch? I'm starting to sound very feminist, which is not my intention at all. But as had been said before in this thread, Hollywood tends to dumb down some of their female heros in Sci-Fi flicks or action movies.


 
Which shower scene??? I've seen both movies (though I'll admit that my attention wandered, but not that much)...

You have to remember that the target audience tends to be adolescent males with these movies - what better way to sell the movie, then sell the VHS/DVD version??? The Directors Cut would probably include a little bit more... 



			
				jjbrainstorm said:
			
		

> I am not sure if it has been mentioned yet but Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio's character in The Abyss is an excellent example of a strong female character who is not overly sexualized.


 
I completely forgot about that film, DAMN!!! She was shown as a strong woman lead... With some pretty flawed and flaky male characters... Sacrificing herself to survive... That was fantastic... And the other character "One Night", she took no prisoners!!! HAHAHAHA!!


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## lizzybob (Jun 25, 2005)

i think my exam went well although i didn't quite finish my second essay ... thanks for asking leto


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## The Master™ (Jun 25, 2005)

We will be expecting a distinction, at least...


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## Alysheba (Jun 25, 2005)

In Blade III, Jessica Biel's character is in a shower washing off blood. I don't know if it was in the theatrical version. I saw it on DVD. It was pointless. Really. They could've used a different way of showing her dispair.


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## The Master™ (Jun 26, 2005)

Blade III??? I haven't seen that one...

So, almost as pointless as Will Smith's character in I, Robot having a shower at the beginning??? Totally pointless to the plot of the movie, but added a few minutes to it running time and gave something for the adolescents to drool over???


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## Sqaure_Eyes77 (May 11, 2008)

*Sci-Fi Ladies*

Behold! I’m preparing some research on women and their representation within the Science Fiction genre (as you do), and I suspect you've probably already been bombarded with questions but oh well. Firstly, let’s jog that memory of the oldies and the more modern ones. Now, one circulating theory is that women within film are passive - non active – they are the objects rather than subjects that are typically male. 

  However, do you think modern Science Fiction films seem to, or intend to, break this? With the iconic example of Alien’s Ripley, this seems to be true, and various other characters compared to the old B-movie’s damsel-in-distress. Can you speculate why women are being presented as active subjects in the Science Fiction genre? And, is this more so in Science Fiction than other genres?

  Lastly, do we (and your gender counts), identify with female leads and active females – the so called “cross-gender identification.” Is this more so if the female acts like a man? And in reverse.

  I hope that all isn’t too confusing…just some prompts for a hopeful discussion.


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## Dave (May 11, 2008)

*Re: Sci-Fi Ladies*

Do you attend the same College as Star Scream?
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/42716-women-representation-in-sci-fi-films-any-opinions.html


Sqaure_Eyes77 said:


> I suspect you've probably already been bombarded with questions but oh well.


Yes, I'm getting that impression!

threads merged


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## Sqaure_Eyes77 (May 11, 2008)

*Re: Sci-Fi Ladies*

Nope, but we're all after a decent life by trying to make the grade. Darn, 'twas too late for me. I'd copy but I'm sure the board would get me for collating someone else's evidence. 

Anywho, I've got a good list of examples. I'm more interested in speculating the why - it's very simple that the studio's could cast men, instead of women, hence the "Action Heroine" but, it seems that Sci-Fi is demonstrating a trend of strong, active women in this genre. Why do you think this is? Wouldn't a man be more appropriate? Do you respect, admire, hate this?  Let's get some juicy discussion flowing! (again...o.o)


----------



## BookStop (May 12, 2008)

*Re: Sci-Fi Ladies*

It mirrors societies' views about women doesn't it. Until the feminist movement of the 60's, women were nearly always cast as decorative flowers to be used and/or admired and protected. With science fiction in particular, the most obvioius answer to that is it looks to future and a reasonalbe future is the growing equalisation between men and women. Star Trek was the first major tv show to push for women's rights. Lt. Ohura may not have been Captain, but she was there on the bridge for everyone to see and admire right in the midst of the movement. As women's roles in society gained momentum in the working man's world, so did they in books and in film.


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## The Procrastinator (May 12, 2008)

*Re: Sci-Fi Ladies*

Yeah, I think modern scifi intends to break the "passive" stereotyping of females. Why? Various reasons - to appeal to different demographics (women are a financial power to be reckoned with these days) - to be more socially accurate (times have changed) - to provide more positive role models for girls (as long as topics like this come up, things are still very unbalanced).

Do we identify with female leads - depends on the character. Gender is not the only difference between people, sometimes there are far stronger differences. I still find myself cheering Ripley on however, I can remember when she was a real breath of fresh air.  Does it make a difference if they act like a man? A woman? I find I do identify with women more, being one myself, but there are many male characters I have identified with too - we're all human. Whether the woman acts like a man or vice versa doesn't have much bearing on it for me - if its well done either can be appealing.

I really enjoy the new Battlestar Galactica series, and one of the reasons I do is the range and quality of the characters, particularly women, but also men. Starbuck is an example of a strong "masculine" woman, but then you have Roslin, Dee, Sharon, Cally, Elosha, Kat, the number 6's, etc etc, all different, some strong, some not so strong, all human.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 27, 2021)

*Heavy Metal* 1981    Taarna


----------



## Robert Zwilling (Jan 27, 2021)

I found Dr. Sarah Harding, in the written version of The Lost World by Michael Crichton, the most competent character in the story. A strange story in its own right, sequel to a movie, plenty of suspenseful moments, light on human drama, heavy on male foolhardiness. Plenty of action for some, for others too much action. Plenty of interesting information for some, too much for others. I liked the writing style, content, and the tyrannosaurus rex couple.


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## Droflet (Jan 27, 2021)

I have found a virtual flood of female leads in sf, drama and especially tv shows, in recent years. I'd like to say it's about time but if I see one more tv show with a young (adolescent) female lead I'll, I'll, well, I don't know what I'll do. Equality yes. Exculsivity NO. Rant ends.


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