# The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim!



## Menion

There arn't words to discribe how much I want this.

"Though several titles were rumored to be revealed at tonight's VGA ceremony, the first world premiere came completely out of left field. After a strange preamble, which saw dozens of hooded figures walk on stage in front of a mountainous background, Bethesda producer Todd Howard appeared to reveal his studio's next game. 

Later, a trailer for the game unspooled, revealing its title, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. The trailer showed a wall of carvings against a voice-over that sounded eerily reminiscent of Swedish actor Max von Sydow. 

"The Elder Scrolls told of their return," said the voice-over. "Their defeat was only a delay. From the time after Oblivion opened, the sons of Skyrim would spill their own blood. But nobody wanted to believe...believe they even existed. And when the truth finally dawned, it dawned in fire." 
Simultaneously, a large gray dragon pried itself free from the wall and breathed faux fire against a lone warrior, who beat back the flames with a shield. "But the one they fear is dragon born," the voice-over concluded, before showing the release date of the game: November 11, 2011. 

The announcement comes just weeks after a report surfaced that a new Elder Scrolls was in the works, and it would be a direct sequel to the last entrant in the series, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. "

Official Trailer on YouTube. YouTube - The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Teaser


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## biodroid

Yes it does look interesting, just hope they upgrade the engine and make the sword fighting less "stiff" maybe include the PS3 Move for us consolers


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## Michael01

Woot! Another year, but okay. I think I've got enough to keep me occupied until then.


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## Lenny

It's a completely new engine, bio:

[UPDATE] The Elder Scrolls V will utilize new game engine -- PlayStation Universe


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## The Procrastinator

Oooooo. Excellent. Hope this does not mean I need a new computer to play the game though.


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## Menion

I'm sure they will bring it out on the usual Ps3, Xbox360 and Pc


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## Lenny

Again: [UPDATE] The Elder Scrolls V will utilize new game engine -- PlayStation Universe 

Confirmed on 360, PS3 and PC.


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## Rahl Windsong

I really hope they cover all the angles when it comes to the main quest line and give the player the ability to be truely evil or good and everything in between those possibilities. While I did enjoy Oblivion I found it way too contrived to be a really great game in terms of story. In Oblivion you could attack and kill the main NPC in the game Martin Septim, well at least he fell down for a while because no sooner do you cut him down and he gets back up and will talk to you as though nothing happened. You could do that to any NPC that was key to any questline in the game and they would only get "knocked out" and get right back up again and act as though nothing had just happened.

I hope they can fix that in Skyrim and make the storyline something that the player needs to have a "real" part in, instead of just being along for the ride and to provide "cues" to the actors in the play.....


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## thaddeus6th

I agree that this is great news.

I also agree with Rahl that the main quest in Oblivion was somewhat lacklustre and only offered a single way to play it. However, there were some other excellent quests (I especially enjoyed the Dark Brotherhood set) and a lot of areas to explore. 

Oh, and many more voice actors are needed.

I hope the levelling system is overhauled, and the character creator improved.


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## Rahl Windsong

Well of course the best thing about the Elder Scrolls series is the fact that it supports a toolset that players can use to make mods for the game, and as long as they include that most of the mistakes Bethesda make with their own design eventually get fixed by the community modders.

Just like the NeverWinter Nights series from Bioware, and Obsidian Entertainment, games that support a toolset last forever. NeverWinter Nights 1, which was released in 2002, still to this day has a strong community of modders making new mods with new adventures all free for download. Same with the Elder Scrolls series, Morrowind, also released in 2002 still going strong with new mods from that community to this day.

So as long as they continue to release with the toolset Skyrim will be around for years to come!


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## Steve S

Yes, very much looking forward to this! Oblivion is my favourite game on any platform, and I think it still stands up well now, even several years after release. So I'm excited to see what Elder Scrolls V will bring!


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## biodroid

Preferred Oblivion to Fallout 3 so will have to wait with the proverbial bated breath for this one. As long as 2K and Bethesda are involved and not Obsidian.


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## biodroid

I see the release date is 11-11-11. Nice for next years Xmas prezzie


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## Brian G Turner

*Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 11/11/11*

A new Elder Scrolls game is coming!!!

Skyrim: Elder Scrolls V

More here:
Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim official trailer unveiled

Trailer here:
YouTube - Elder Scrolls V Skyrim: Official Gameplay Trailer


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## biodroid

*Re: Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - 11/11/11*

Looks good, hopefully the engine is better. I found the sword swinging very stiff and slow.


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## Brian G Turner

Oops, my bad for not seeing the existing thread. 

Only just seen the news, and the trailer looks great - very much like Oblivion with with far improved graphics, and a range of interesting tweaks to the system:
Skyrim:Skyrim - UESPWiki


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## thaddeus6th

I hope the character creator and levelling systems are improved. The extensive range of options were good, but it was much harder than Dragon Age: Origins to make a good-looking character.


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## Menion

If you read all the information it says basicly everything has been improved, don't get me wrong there will be some bad things, there is no such thing as the perfect game.

You can have *Beards*!!! that alone is cause for celebration!


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## thaddeus6th

Hehe. You could have beards in Oblivion too, albeit strange, spray-on beards.


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## Menion

They were more like 5 o'clock stubble.


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## Brian G Turner

The levelling issue would be nice to address as well.

While I can appreciate why they used it in Oblivion, it just means once you become level 20+ it starts to become boring because most everyone you fight has Daedric or glass armour - there's no longer anything to covet - and enemies were always a challenge to your level - I mean, really, a goblin cave filled with only goblin warlords and shamans?

At least low-level characters had something to look forward to...

But finding equipment above your level was always thrilling at low level (ie, Umbra's ebony armour and Azani Blackheart's glass armour), and finding low level creatures to kill when you're high level was always fun, too.


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## thaddeus6th

That's a good point, but my biggest gripe with the levelling system was that it was needlessly complicated and quite possible to become relatively weaker.


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## devilsgrin

Menion said:


> If you read all the information it says basicly everything has been improved, don't get me wrong there will be some bad things, there is no such thing as the perfect game.
> 
> You can have *Beards*!!! that alone is cause for celebration!


 
true, there is no such thing as The Perfect Game... however, no studio ever comes so close as Bethesda!


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## Menion

> no studio ever comes so close as Bethesda!


I second that!


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## Rahl Windsong

devilsgrin said:


> true, there is no such thing as The Perfect Game... however, no studio ever comes so close as Bethesda!


 
From what I have heard about Skyrim is that it is more like Fallout in that there are Perks instead of skills.


*Todd Howard from Bethesda discussed how the forthcoming Elder Scroll game will handle weapon skills.*

Leveling your character in _Oblivion_ or _Morrowind_ was connected to raising your various skill levels by performing actions in the game. Most classes had one or two weapon skills that needed to be raised in order to get to the next level, but that prevented investing in using other weapons even if the style was largely similar. For example, using a one-handed sword used a totally different skill than a one-handed axe, even though they might largely play the same. For _Skyrim_, game director Todd Howard says that he has scrapped individual skills and instead you will level up combat styles like one-handed, two-handed, or archery, and that you can choose a perk to specialize in a specific weapon type like axe or sword.
"Each skill has its own perk tree," Howard said. "So take one handed for instance. The idea is, you have a one-handed skill, and then you can perk that - there's like a skill tree, underneath one-handed. Within that there are separate perk areas for maces and then axes and then swords. So opposed to having, say, an axe skill, that is a part of the perk tree within one-handed."
Howard thinks that will give the player more choice as he develops his character. "We think that ... gives us a better balance. You can start like 'I like one-handed stuff' and then you start specializing as you raise that skill."
Unfortunately, Howard said that spears are not included in _Skyrim_, at least not currently. "Something like spears is really cool, it's just something with where we're putting our time with the other weapons. It just didn't make the cut right now."
_Skyrim_ is due out on November 11, 2011. Time to think about putting in your notice for vacation time that week.

Link to article: The Escapist : Forums : The News Room : Skyrim Features "Perk" Trees Instead of Weapons Skills

And of course the mention that there are no spears in Skyrim, that really makes no sense from the point of view of the PC in the storyline, because if I was going to fight dragons I think a spear would be the preferable weapon as opposed to an axe or sword....one would think that at least there should be lances?

Anyway I did not really mind the way things worked in Fallout with perks instead of skills, it might seem odd to have that in a fantasy legend like The Elder Scrolls though.


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## Cayal

devilsgrin said:


> true, there is no such thing as The Perfect Game... however, no studio ever comes so close as Bethesda!



I dunno, I reckon Bioware does some pretty amazing stuff in the RPG field.


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## merry gentry

All I can say is that Oblivion is ranked number 4 on the PC Gamer's top 100 PC games of all time.  So I'm thiking that Skyrim should be able to top it.


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## cornelius

I hope it'll bring back the "morrowind feel" of exploring, Oblivion had a nice set up but there were few "exotic" locations like Tell Fyr or those shell-houses in Morrowind. The Game-play video does suggest that there will be such locations, so I'm looking forward to 11.11.11. I'm a PC-gamer though, i don't know if my laptop will be able to take this on, but there have been rumours that Skyrim will offer some sort of "Oldblivion" option. We'll see. I try not to get all to worked up about trailers, but this one does look awesome. Can't wait to have a go at it, the first couple of days where you have to "struggle" to get better items is always such a rush.


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## Menion

I can't wait to find out about the Blade companion, Esbern. His story.


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## devilsgrin

Rahl Windsong said:


> From what I have heard about Skyrim is that it is more like Fallout in that there are Perks instead of skills.
> 
> 
> *Todd Howard from Bethesda discussed how the forthcoming Elder Scroll game will handle weapon skills.*
> 
> Leveling your character in _Oblivion_ or _Morrowind_ was connected to raising your various skill levels by performing actions in the game. Most classes had one or two weapon skills that needed to be raised in order to get to the next level, but that prevented investing in using other weapons even if the style was largely similar. For example, using a one-handed sword used a totally different skill than a one-handed axe, even though they might largely play the same. For _Skyrim_, game director Todd Howard says that he has scrapped individual skills and instead you will level up combat styles like one-handed, two-handed, or archery, and that you can choose a perk to specialize in a specific weapon type like axe or sword.
> "Each skill has its own perk tree," Howard said. "So take one handed for instance. The idea is, you have a one-handed skill, and then you can perk that - there's like a skill tree, underneath one-handed. Within that there are separate perk areas for maces and then axes and then swords. So opposed to having, say, an axe skill, that is a part of the perk tree within one-handed."
> Howard thinks that will give the player more choice as he develops his character. "We think that ... gives us a better balance. You can start like 'I like one-handed stuff' and then you start specializing as you raise that skill."
> Unfortunately, Howard said that spears are not included in _Skyrim_, at least not currently. "Something like spears is really cool, it's just something with where we're putting our time with the other weapons. It just didn't make the cut right now."
> _Skyrim_ is due out on November 11, 2011. Time to think about putting in your notice for vacation time that week.
> 
> Link to article: The Escapist : Forums : The News Room : Skyrim Features "Perk" Trees Instead of Weapons Skills
> 
> And of course the mention that there are no spears in Skyrim, that really makes no sense from the point of view of the PC in the storyline, because if I was going to fight dragons I think a spear would be the preferable weapon as opposed to an axe or sword....one would think that at least there should be lances?
> 
> Anyway I did not really mind the way things worked in Fallout with perks instead of skills, it might seem odd to have that in a fantasy legend like The Elder Scrolls though.


 
i was under the impression that the Perks and Skills in Skyrim were going to be very similar to the way they work in Fallout 3. WITH the individual skills, and with perks gained upon each defeat of a Dragon...(and possibly at level-up)... but with the perks directly affecting your skills and/or stats.
Also, Fallout 3 most DEFINITELY has skills. And they are crucially impactful. Low gun skill = bad shot, low damage... low Lockpicking or Science = no access to pretty much half the best things in the game.


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## devilsgrin

Cayal said:


> I dunno, I reckon Bioware does some pretty amazing stuff in the RPG field.


 
BioWare does a great job - most of the time. Perhaps my increasing distaste for BioWare comes from the inbridled arrogance of some of their people (David Gaider for instance), as well as EA's influence over quantity rather than quality (which i'll admit does make BioWare's games all the more impressive for their quality in such quick timeframes).


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## No One

devilsgrin said:


> i was under the impression that the Perks and Skills in Skyrim were going to be very similar to the way they work in Fallout 3. WITH the individual skills, and with perks gained upon each defeat of a Dragon...(and possibly at level-up)... but with the perks directly affecting your skills and/or stats.
> Also, Fallout 3 most DEFINITELY has skills. And they are crucially impactful. Low gun skill = bad shot, low damage... low Lockpicking or Science = no access to pretty much half the best things in the game.



While I'm not fussed about the perks this - and recently playing a little bit of Fallout - has reminded me of a conversation with a friend of mine (well, to say it was a "conversation" is a bit strong).

We were thinking how great it would be - oh, please please make it so Bethesda! - if the Elder Scrolls series utilised Fallout's V.A.T.S system for combat. It would add so much to the visual dynamics of the game and I'd love to see it.


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## Menion

How would they make it believeable? V.A.T.S was a special aiming device that was built into the Pipboy.
I can't see them using it in Skyrim, as a.... "Rage Aiming" 

One thing I would love to see is the way limbs get blown off in Fallout! If I hit someone with a twohanded axe, I wont them to be cut to pieces!


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## No One

Does being _believable _really matter? Think of the spectacularness! 

I'm all for the limb hacking too.


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## Menion

*Here are some of the screenshots.*



















And this one for all the people that wanted more female looking females.


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## Menion

*And a few more.*


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## cornelius

It begs the question: What about the system requirements? Bethesda vowed that the req's wouldn't be too high, as  was the case with Oblivion when it came out (thank god for Oldblivion) but I fear for it. Bethesda gives beautiful gems but they are (in my opinion) not the best when it comes engine-effectiveness vs RAM/CPU usage. I've seen something along the "2.03 Dual Core, 3 GB Ram, 512 mb videoram high end card" line but I don't want to get my hopes up just yet.


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## thaddeus6th

It won't happen for ages, if at all, but I'd love to see the character creator as soon as possible.


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## Menion

Dragon Age did that, didn't they? And sure that would be Awesome for Skyrim.


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## thaddeus6th

Origins did yes, and it was a pretty cool pre-release feature. The problem is that they only did it because the game was delayed and they thought (correctly) it'd help assuage annoyance.

The Oblivion creator (in terms of appearance rather than skills and so forth) was great in terms of variability, but Origins and DA2 are much better aesthetically.


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## devilsgrin

wow! the women actually look like women in Skyrim? thank the heavens. 
considering Skyrim is likely to be out on PS3 and 360, i imagine most systems running Oblivion on high (or dragon age: O or 2 for a more recent comparison), will be able to handle it - at least on lower settings...


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## Daerana

I heard that the recommended requirements include 512mb gpu, quad core cpu at 3ghz and 3gb ram.  Surely though the minimum specs will be lower than that.  My pc will cope with that but I'm sure many wont.  Anyway, I have been looking forward to this game coming out for a loooong time.  I have no idea how many hundreds of hours I spent on Oblivion.


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## Caledfwlch

Daerana said:


> I heard that the recommended requirements include 512mb gpu, quad core cpu at 3ghz and 3gb ram.  Surely though the minimum specs will be lower than that.  My pc will cope with that but I'm sure many wont.  Anyway, I have been looking forward to this game coming out for a loooong time.  I have no idea how many hundreds of hours I spent on Oblivion.



I hope so.

I will likely still be stuck with my dual core PC, and my Radeon HD 4830. 

It was the same with Oblivion, my hardware at the time was just below min spec, but one thing Elder Scrolls/Bethesda games have is a huge, talented fan base of modders, and clever people, and .ini file tweaks and so on were available very quickly to enable me to run the game 

I imagine the same for Skyrim, if similar issues happen.


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## DMZ

I cant wait, the sound track reminds me of morrowind, witch to me had better music.


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## Lemmy

I want to look forward to Skyrim, but I'm skeptic after Oblivion. Anyway, I heard a rumor that we will have to fight dragons in Skyrim. (makes sense from the trailer and the whole 'dragon born' thingy.) But as far I understand, the dragons will swoop down out of the sky and attack you on sight - even in cities. This means there aren't really any places to hide other than in dungeson and in houses. Can anyone confirn this or prove me wrong? I would love to fight a dragon or two, but not regularly through the whole game.



devilsgrin said:


> true, there is no such thing as The Perfect Game... however, no studio ever comes so close as Bethesda!



I sort of agree. They did come close to perfection. Then they made Oblivion and Fallout 3. BioWare came pretty darn close too with the Baldur's Gate series and Mass Effect 1, but the rest of them... meh. Strangely, I think the closest-to-perfection of the recent games is Obsidian, of all things. I never liked anything they've done, but Fallout: New Vegas is one of the best games I've ever played.

Non-RPGs, Mortal Kombat 9 is pretty darn perfect as well. And it looks beautiful, too. When the scenery and characters aren't covered in blood and gore, of course.


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## Caledfwlch

Lemmy said:


> I want to look forward to Skyrim, but I'm skeptic after Oblivion. Anyway, I heard a rumor that we will have to fight dragons in Skyrim. (makes sense from the trailer and the whole 'dragon born' thingy.) But as far I understand, the dragons will swoop down out of the sky and attack you on sight - even in cities. This means there aren't really any places to hide other than in dungeson and in houses. Can anyone confirn this or prove me wrong? I would love to fight a dragon or two, but not regularly through the whole game.
> 
> 
> 
> I sort of agree. They did come close to perfection. Then they made Oblivion and Fallout 3. BioWare came pretty darn close too with the Baldur's Gate series and Mass Effect 1, but the rest of them... meh. Strangely, I think the closest-to-perfection of the recent games is Obsidian, of all things. I never liked anything they've done, but Fallout: New Vegas is one of the best games I've ever played.
> 
> Non-RPGs, Mortal Kombat 9 is pretty darn perfect as well. And it looks beautiful, too. When the scenery and characters aren't covered in blood and gore, of course.



I really liked Oblivion. It has problems, but I enjoyed it - it just didnt seem as huge as morrowind in terms of quests, and the main quest in oblivion is a lot shorter.

I have been hearing plenty I like about Skyrim though! How the night sky looks, the constellations, will depend on your skills tree! As you increase your skills/gain new ones, that is reflected in the stars!

Also, they seem to be bigging up some sort of random quest generator, which should add in huge continued playability, providing the main scripted quests are decently sized.

Also, combat will be playable as 2 handed - so left mouse can control your right hand, and whatever you choose will control your left - Right can be fighting with a sword, whilst the left used for firing magick spells.

If its half has good as they are making out, it should be a welcome addition to the family.


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## Lemmy

They made a lot of promises for Oblivion too, but they did't really keep most of them. Take the AI, for instance. The NPCs were supposed to live a life instead of just be scripted, and they proved it by showing a scene with a woman and her dog. The problem is that's the only dog in the entire game, and the whole scene is scripted... So while the quest generator seems fun, I want to see it in action before I decide if it works or not. And by 'see it in action', I mean I need to play the game first and see it there. Even Elder Scrolls 1 had a quest generator, but it was simple stuff like kill a troll or fetch something.

I'm not sure I want the stars to change depending on my skills. I don't want the whole world to evolve around me, but rather be just another guy.

TWo-handed combat sounds fun, but why would the fight button control the left hand? It makes a lot more sense to let the left button control the left hand and right button control the right hand. Though personally I would perfer bringing back the excellent fighting from Arena. Or learn from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.


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## Caledfwlch

Lemmy said:


> They made a lot of promises for Oblivion too, but they did't really keep most of them. Take the AI, for instance. The NPCs were supposed to live a life instead of just be scripted, and they proved it by showing a scene with a woman and her dog. The problem is that's the only dog in the entire game, and the whole scene is scripted... So while the quest generator seems fun, I want to see it in action before I decide if it works or not. And by 'see it in action', I mean I need to play the game first and see it there. Even Elder Scrolls 1 had a quest generator, but it was simple stuff like kill a troll or fetch something.
> 
> I'm not sure I want the stars to change depending on my skills. I don't want the whole world to evolve around me, but rather be just another guy.
> 
> TWo-handed combat sounds fun, but why would the fight button control the left hand? It makes a lot more sense to let the left button control the left hand and right button control the right hand. Though personally I would perfer bringing back the excellent fighting from Arena. Or learn from Fallout 3 and New Vegas.



Oh what buttons you use are absolutely your choice - I am just wierd in that I use arrow keys for movement, rather than WASD and my right mouse button is my "jump" button. I suppose I could set the mouse scroll button click option to be my right hand, but not very ergonomic. I need a mouse with 3 clicks!

So for me my easiest combat control would be Mouse 1 for right hand, numpad, 0(ins) for left hand

There is nothing I hate worse than a game that will not let you customise what keys you use - there is absolutely no excuse for that being uncustomisable. Dead Space was a complete waste of cash for me - I found it impossible to play due the the key set being unchangeable.

What I vaguely remember from Oblivion with regards to AI, is they had to lower its "intelligence" and autonomy massively last minute. They were beta testing, or whatever, and whilst in a town, a Town Guard got hungry, and stole from one of the stalls, which caused a big fight, and then the guard resisted arrest, and they ended up with shedloads of NPC's butchering each other 

Skyrim will either be great, or it will be so so, but still fun.

And the great thing with Elder Scrolls games, is the editors are normally released asap, and there is an absolutely massive and talented fanbase, often rushing out fixes, before official patches, and of course thousands of mods to extend the games lifespan, and its replayability 

I actually like the idea that more stars appear in the sky, as your character progresses, it has no function or affect on the game whatsoever, just a little visual treat


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## Brian G Turner

I didn't get to play any Edler Scrolls other than Oblivion and really enjoyed it - just literally logged out of my umpteenth character I'm developing. It did a lot of things right, but there are a few contentious points - but I think considering the size and scope of the world, there was an amazing amount that could have gone horribly wrong, but  worked really well overall.


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## Caledfwlch

I said:


> I didn't get to play any Edler Scrolls other than Oblivion and really enjoyed it - just literally logged out of my umpteenth character I'm developing. It did a lot of things right, but there are a few contentious points - but I think considering the size and scope of the world, there was an amazing amount that could have gone horribly wrong, but  worked really well overall.



Absolutely  I think the last time I played was last year - 5 years on from release. (been obsessed with dragon age)

I did borrow Morrowind from my brother to have another go, I had not played in years, and just found it impossible to get back into - Oblivion and other more modern RPG's are a world apart. The graphics, I could put up with, and there are plenty of texture/graphic update mods available for Morrowind, but it just felt a little too clunky, NPC's dont speak what they have to say when in dialogue with them, other than random stuff when walking past. Of course the incredible storyline is still there, if the graphics could be tweaked a lot better, it may help, but the clunkyness and the graphics together just made it a bit of a chore 

I believe a few years ago, there was a fan project to essentially import the whole of morrowind into Oblivion, so it would run with Oblivion graphics. I dont know if they intended to effectively build a conversion tool, that would take most objects and landscapes and replace them in bulk, or if it was a case  of doing everything manually - a giant job  But iirc, rather than losing hope, Bethesda actually shut the project down with legal threats.

Edit: on googling, it looks like there are a few ongoing projects to rebuild Vvardenfell in Oblivion, but I think it would just be an additional "area" with no quests etc, just the chance to wander the landscape of morrowind.

Also, in my old age, and suffering from high blood pressure problems, I don't think I could stand the constant vicious attacks of Cliff Racers that morrowind suffered anymore


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## Lemmy

Caledfwlch said:


> There is nothing I hate worse than a game that will not let you customise what keys you use


I completely agree with you on that. I'm left handed, so I always change the keys to something that suits me better. I still use WSAD, but I can't reach Alt, for instance. Though how right handed people reach Ctrl + a number effectivly is beyond me.

Another thing I hate is that every FPS insist you are right-handed. I remember an Unreal Tourmanet-game let you hold the gun on the left side of the screen, but more or less all FPSs the last ten, fifteen years have it on the right side only. It might not seem like much, but having it on the left side made a lot of difference to me. When I have it on the left side, it felt like an extension to my hand and made aiming a lot easier. Having it on the right side means I have to rely on the crosshair and hope I aim in the general area I want to hit. Thank god for rocket lauchers. 

I can't wait for Skyrim, but I'm still skeptic. it's not just that I hated Oblivion, but it's mostly that so many games have gone to consoles the last few years. If I'm not mistaken, PC game sales have increased lately, but they are still love. What this means is games sell more on consoles, so they stay there. It's not bad most of the time, but console-games are so simple to control. I remember playing X-Wing and TIE Fighter, and we had to use a flightstick and a large part of the keyboard just to control our ships. I loved it. Same with Comanche: Maximum Overkill. The weapons alone were on the Z to B or so keys, and then there was the speed, altitude, radar, targeting, map etc. I loved it.  (sidenote: My father hated it and didn't want me to play it since "Maximum overkill" sounded so violent. I had a hard time explaining to him that it was a helicopter sim.)


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## Caledfwlch

Lemmy said:


> I completely agree with you on that. I'm left handed, so I always change the keys to something that suits me better. I still use WSAD, but I can't reach Alt, for instance. Though how right handed people reach Ctrl + a number effectivly is beyond me.
> 
> Another thing I hate is that every FPS insist you are right-handed. I remember an Unreal Tourmanet-game let you hold the gun on the left side of the screen, but more or less all FPSs the last ten, fifteen years have it on the right side only. It might not seem like much, but having it on the left side made a lot of difference to me. When I have it on the left side, it felt like an extension to my hand and made aiming a lot easier. Having it on the right side means I have to rely on the crosshair and hope I aim in the general area I want to hit. Thank god for rocket lauchers.
> 
> I can't wait for Skyrim, but I'm still skeptic. it's not just that I hated Oblivion, but it's mostly that so many games have gone to consoles the last few years. If I'm not mistaken, PC game sales have increased lately, but they are still love. What this means is games sell more on consoles, so they stay there. It's not bad most of the time, but console-games are so simple to control. I remember playing X-Wing and TIE Fighter, and we had to use a flightstick and a large part of the keyboard just to control our ships. I loved it. Same with Comanche: Maximum Overkill. The weapons alone were on the Z to B or so keys, and then there was the speed, altitude, radar, targeting, map etc. I loved it.  (sidenote: My father hated it and didn't want me to play it since "Maximum overkill" sounded so violent. I had a hard time explaining to him that it was a helicopter sim.)



I remember tie fighter  And going near cross eyed playing it ! 1 eye jammed on radar, the other eye flying and targetting 

As I understand it, the pilots of Apache gunships in the real world, have to learn to independently move their eyes seperate to each other


----------



## Lemmy

Heh, I hardly think they have to move their eyes independently until I get proof. Is it even possible? Besides, computers do most of the work these days. Normal passenger-planes don't even need the pilots, but can take off, fly to the correct destination and land safely on auto-pilot easily. The human pilot is mostly for safety reasons. And to say "Primary mission objective complete. The Emperor will be pleased." when they land.


----------



## Caledfwlch

Lemmy said:


> Heh, I hardly think they have to move their eyes independently until I get proof. Is it even possible? Besides, computers do most of the work these days. Normal passenger-planes don't even need the pilots, but can take off, fly to the correct destination and land safely on auto-pilot easily. The human pilot is mostly for safety reasons. And to say "Primary mission objective complete. The Emperor will be pleased." when they land.



A young work colleague told me once about the Apache stuff, he was aiming to join up and hopefully fly them.

I thought they just had those special "look and kill" helmets these days anyway, the gatling cannons etc, move in time with/ to wherever the wear is looking, which is a groovy way of aiming 

I think one of the coolest military things I have heard, is one of the US Navy Aircraft Carriers have the StarWars theme as the call to battle stations alarm, which is brilliant hehe.

I would love to see a cockup in which, the US president was landing somewhere, and instead of Hail to the Chief the band accidently played Imperial March!


----------



## Lemmy

Ask not what the Force can do you for, but what you can do for the Force!


----------



## Grimbear

biodroid said:


> Yes it does look interesting, just hope they upgrade the engine and make the sword fighting less "stiff" maybe include the PS3 Move for us consolers



Yep - I noticed that in Oblivion. While it's a great game otherwise swordplay was all hacking and no finesse. The 'new' moves you got were always almost identical to the old ones - made the game tedious in that way. And one reason why I ended up with a bow instead.


Cannot wait for Skyrim however.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Anyone seen the Orc and Khajiit screenshots yet? A huge improvement on Oblivion:


----------



## anhalo

I have waited for this game too long!!!


----------



## ASleepyGiraffe

If Bethesda can deliver half of what they promise, then I think Skyrim could be a strong contender for game of the year. Either way I can't wait!


----------



## Chaoticheart

Skyrim ad for E3.


----------



## biodroid

Ok, now it's starting to really get my mouth watering.


----------



## Red 13

You know that episode of SouthPark where Cartman is so desperate for the Wii to be released that he freezes himself? I'm seriously contemplating doing the same. Wake me up when Skyrim is released.


----------



## devilsgrin

wow, both the Orc and the khajiit look awesome. Must say i always found the implementation of the khajiit lacking...not ever sleek enough, not predatory enough. Like all cats - they should be beautiful, sleek (even when bulky) and always deadly looking. 
They've done Orcs reasonably well before, but i think Dark Messiah upped the standards for Orcs quite considerably. Bethesda clearly more than one-upping them.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Not played the Dark Messiah, but agree entirely that the new Khajiit and Orc are massively improved. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the Argonians look, amongst many other things.

The character creator may be fantastic. There are apparently lots of options, including scars and that kind of thing (and the Orc has a chipped tooth, I think).


----------



## biodroid

I hope that when you interact with characters the facial expressions are more smooth and real with some simulated emotion. The in-your-face communication is a bit much to bear so hopefully the characters are a bit of a distance away. They are invading my characters personal bubble


----------



## Red 13

biodroid said:


> I hope that when you interact with characters the facial expressions are more smooth and real with some simulated emotion. The in-your-face communication is a bit much to bear so hopefully the characters are a bit of a distance away. They are invading my characters personal bubble



Apparently it won't be in your face communication (like you said). If, for example, you start talking to someone who is chopping wood, he will continue doing it while talking to you and every now and then look up at you while talking. This will definatly make it feel alot more realistic, the world doesn't just stop all around you while you talk, everyone gets on with their lives.


----------



## Red 13

Wooooooooooow! Check out this awesome interview of Todd Howard at the E3, more importantly we get to see a demo of Skyrim, it looks so awesome!!!
http://www.g4tv.com/videos/53441/The-Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-E3-Gameplay-Demo/


----------



## thaddeus6th

Indeed, Red, a great video 

One thing of interest (amongst many) is that staves are now one-handed. I also read somewhere or other that torches can be used as one-handed weapons.

Edit: at least, I think they are. It's not stated, but I think I saw a one-handed staff in the dark cavern.


----------



## biodroid

The only thing that annoyed me with Oblivion was that you had to travel so far to get anywhere and then face off with a few brigands just to keep you interested and move you along but not the story. Oblivion was rated to have a 200+ hours of gameplay but they did not mention that 120 of them will be used for travelling. I know they were trying for realism but there is a line one needs to draw. I would like to see a more populated map so that I can explore cities and not just only open fields. My rant is now over


----------



## Wiggum

Really?

I loved the travelling aspect of it, stumbling upon this and that.

I actually logged in about 40 hours before I realized that I could quick travel 

Once I figured that out....I wasn't sure I was happy I did as it robbed me of my normal intention of scoping out all the areas.


----------



## Steve S

Wiggum said:


> Really?
> 
> I loved the travelling aspect of it, stumbling upon this and that.
> 
> I actually logged in about 40 hours before I realized that I could quick travel
> 
> Once I figured that out....I wasn't sure I was happy I did as it robbed me of my normal intention of scoping out all the areas.



Me too, I spent many a happy hour wandering around, getting distracted by side quests and ignoring the main missions!


----------



## Grimbear

Yep same. If you were patient you ended up finding a lot of great sidequests too


----------



## biodroid

All I'm saying that travelling is not really setting the story unless it's part of the plot then I don't mind, but aimlessly walking around gets boring.


----------



## Red 13

Sorry Biodroid but i agree with the others. I find that aimlessly wondering about in Oblivion was incredible. Thats even all i did for about a month the first time i played,and its very rare that a game has such an impressive and immersive world to it that you can spend so much time on something that isn't even quest related.


----------



## Primitius

biodroid said:


> All I'm saying that travelling is not really setting the story unless it's part of the plot then I don't mind, but aimlessly walking around gets boring.



the point is there are lots of cool things to explore and find everywhere you look. If you don't like that exploration element, you might as well play a linear game where you can't veer off from the stories intended path.


----------



## Red 13

Primitius said:


> the point is there are lots of cool things to explore and find everywhere you look. If you don't like that exploration element, you might as well play a linear game where you can't veer off from the stories intended path.



I guess that at the same time, what is great about "The elder Scrolls" games, is that you can play it whatever way you want. If you want it to be linear you can make it linear. I saw that on a recent Todd Howard interview he said " There are 300hrs of gameplay but if you want to play it for just 20hrs we stilll want you to enjoy the game as much as possible."... still, personally, i prefer to play the whole 300 hours, lol, but i guess that really depends on what type of player you are.


----------



## skyrim_fan

I will be one of the 300+ hour fans


----------



## slack

The oblivion planes seemed very repetitive. It's like they put the same skin on the same landscape. I dunno, maybe my expectations were misguided. I was hoping the planes would be reminiscent of _Dante's Inferno_, with a little variety. Needless to say, I was a bit bored.

Fallout 3 was terrific, though.


----------



## thaddeus6th

I wasn't a fan of the Oblivion gates either.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Some new info's come out, and there's a new dunmer screenshot:







I prefer the orc and khajiit, I think. All the journalists who recently got an hour with the game will be given screenshots of their characters, so we'll get an argonian shortly as well 

http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2011/08/skyrim-updated-info-and-dunmer.html


----------



## LadyLara

I really can't wait for this, I've spent faaaaar too many hours on Oblivion and will definitely be getting this as soon as it comes out.


----------



## TheTomG

Ahhh noooo I need my life, and now this vampiric beast appears and threatens to suck dry the hours of my day, leaving me with little room for anything else beyond work (required to earn the money to pay the electric required to keep playing) and eating (required to sustain this mere mortal coil required to interface with the game through hands and eyes and ears) and sleep (required to keep enough sanity in this enfeebled mind of mine that I can think enough to actually make progress in the game.)

Loved Oblivion, so this one is going to be a must-have. Already I weep for the hours it will steal from me.... and grin at the pleasure I will receive in return!


----------



## thaddeus6th

It sounds like it'll take the best bits of Oblivion, upgrade them a bit (more alchemical ingredients, better graphics, character creator etc), add new stuff (smithing sounds excellent) and replace the bits that didn't work (different levelling system).

Months to go, but I'm wondering what my initial character ought to be. I think I'll go for a lady Nord, and have a Khajiit (they look great this time) for my second.


----------



## LadyLara

Caledfwlch said:


> Also, combat will be playable as 2 handed - so left mouse can control your right hand, and whatever you choose will control your left - Right can be fighting with a sword, whilst the left used for firing magick spells.


 
Except you could use weapons and spells simultaneously in Oblivion too, so that's not really anything new.


----------



## LadyLara

Caledfwlch said:


> I actually like the idea that more stars appear in the sky, as your character progresses, it has no function or affect on the game whatsoever, just a little visual treat


 
Sounds a bit mental to me...


----------



## devilsgrin

LadyLara said:


> Sounds a bit mental to me...



the constellation bit is actually something really interesting to me... its an entirely novel approach to a character screen. i think i'll love it.


----------



## devilsgrin

thaddeus6th said:


> It sounds like it'll take the best bits of Oblivion, upgrade them a bit (more alchemical ingredients, better graphics, character creator etc), add new stuff (smithing sounds excellent) and replace the bits that didn't work (different levelling system).
> 
> Months to go, but I'm wondering what my initial character ought to be. I think I'll go for a lady Nord, and have a Khajiit (they look great this time) for my second.



A lady Altmer for my first playthrough - lol i do it every time, in every Elder Scrolls game since Daggerfall (and most of my repeat playthroughs are variations of the original character - unless i lash out and pick a Khajiit or an Argonian - i never play as a human - though, in a Skyrim setting, i MAY play a Nord-Lord)


----------



## thaddeus6th

Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game. By lucky coincidence, the Nord was probably my favourite race. I'm less fond of elves, and Imperials. I hope we get some Altmer pics soon.

The Argonians and Khajiit look fantastic this time around


----------



## LadyLara

devilsgrin said:


> the constellation bit is actually something really interesting to me... its an entirely novel approach to a character screen. i think i'll love it.


 
After watching the video (link on page 4 I think) it looks like it's just a nice graphical upgrade screen, rather than actually affecting the sky of the world in game. I have no problem with the former at all, it actually looks quite nice, but the latter is just silly in my opinion. Hopefully it is the former and not the latter.


----------



## wookie8472

slack said:


> The oblivion planes seemed very repetitive. It's like they put the same skin on the same landscape. I dunno, maybe my expectations were misguided. I was hoping the planes would be reminiscent of _Dante's Inferno_, with a little variety. Needless to say, I was a bit bored.
> 
> Fallout 3 was terrific, though.



firstly, fallout 3 was glitched all over the place, but still better than oblivion.
secondly, i hope skyrim will be a morrowind type of game with choice and scope being its main points, and nothing like oblivion, another travesty of a game with only 50 quests...


----------



## thaddeus6th

Think I read somewhere that Oblivion had around 200-300 quests. Anyway, they reckon Skyrim will have about six- to sevenfold the number of quests as Fallout 3 did. The lockpicking will be very similar to Fallout 3, and the dungeons will be more divergent and last longer (15 minutes to a couple of hours) than Oblivion's.

Character generation looks fantastic, and the presets can be found here:
http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24249

[20 per race, half male, half female. I especially like the Argonians and Khajiit].


----------



## mtzGr

Looks awesome, I'm going to have to upgrade a few things on my pc for all the releases that look to be promising. 

Let us ride dragons!


----------



## Menion

Live action trailer.

http://youtu.be/znj_r4YNbqE

Be amazed!


----------



## devilsgrin

the live trailer was ok... actually left me a little underwhelmed, since the actual game-trailers have been SO amazing. 
having said that, 11.11.11 cannot come soon enough.


----------



## biodroid

I am still thinking about getting this game, until I heard there is a massive download for it on the PS3 for whatever reason.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Biodroid, d'you mean a large install size, and could you offer more information?


----------



## biodroid

Here you go Thaddeus - http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-360/skyrims-mandatory-install-is-massive-for-ps3-owners/ 

I have not read it yet, our firewall blocks the site, don't worry it's a legit gaming site for reviews etc. no dodgy stuff here. Let me know what it says.
http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&rc...sg=AFQjCNH7FqCyQvfnWKK4xDHLGbcsipvLSw&cad=rja


----------



## thaddeus6th

Thanks, er, sort of 

It says "404 not found".

Some on the Bethesda forums suggested a 5.5GB install, which is reasonably large but nor enormous (and smaller than Oblivion). That's unconfirmed, I think, however.

*sighs* I've got a 40GB PS3 with 11GB free. I'll be bloody annoyed if the install is enormous, but hopefully it'll be leaked properly before release.

Edited extra bit: I brilliantly googled "Skyrim PS3 install size" and got a mini-intro to the article you linked to:

"The mandatory _install size_ for _Skyrim_ on _PS3_ is going to be 5.5Gb which isn't the largest mandatory _install_ but it's sizeable enough for owners of older *..."*


----------



## thaddeus6th

Sorry to spam, but I just remembered something else that might be of use (it's not a 'buy or not' thing, just handy info). Unlike Fallout 3 and Oblivion you don't get to rejig your character at the end of the intro, so make sure that you get it 100% right when you make it first time. 

Like removing the ability to see what items look like on your character in the menu, it's a small but slightly inexplicable and stupid omission, I think.


----------



## LadyLara

Has anyone read the cash-i... er, tie-in novels? I'm sort of tempted but suspect they might be awful. There's a very rich world and history though, it just depends if it's done right.


----------



## Red 13

LadyLara said:


> Has anyone read the cash-i... er, tie-in novels? I'm sort of tempted but suspect they might be awful. There's a very rich world and history though, it just depends if it's done right.



Funny, i've been thinking exactly the same thing. I've never found any of the books in any shops though.


----------



## biodroid

Thaddeus - Sorry, I thought the site would have the url working, I must have copied it wrong. I am rather going to wait for Platinum with all the add-ons including the huge download and expansions. 5.5GB at our connection speeds is like trying to swim through cold syrup in slow-mo.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Lara and Red, I was somewhat tempted, but haven't. I'm slightly surprised they don't seem to be available as eBooks.

Fair enough, Biodroid, but why would connection speed matter? 

I usually go down the Platinum route for Uncharted games. Unless I'm really into a game it's just sensible to wait a while and save cash.


----------



## biodroid

Thaddeus - South Africa is not known for it's awesomely super fast reliable connections that are extremely cheap and get capped at 5GB.


----------



## thaddeus6th

I didn't know that, but I meant "Why would connection speed matter for a PS3 game?"* Sorry for being unclear.

*I can see why it might be irksome for sizeable downloads, but you did cite the 5.5GB install, which confused me.


----------



## biodroid

Thaddeus - I think it's a patch for some changes to make it work better on the PS3.


----------



## LadyLara

I'm sure the download won't be anywhere near 5 GB though, that will just be the install from the disc.

Thaddeus - they are available as ebooks on Amazon, don't know about any other formats though.


----------



## Red 13

I don't see what all the fuss is about that Skyrim will take up 5GB on PS3. Its obviously a big game and well worth the space and maybe even more. I think oblivion took up even more space now that i think about it.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Really, LadyLara? I'll have to go back and check, I thought they weren't. Cheers 

Red, you're right, it was 6-7GB. I'm surprised that Skyrim is less, to be honest.


----------



## Red 13

Thaddeus, i think that the map is a bit smaller, in the sense its more to do with altitude ( being in the mountains and all that) and not spread out as much. It still going to be massive though, with lots of things to do. Ooooh i can't wait till Friday!


----------



## thaddeus6th

I'd read that the area (square miles) is roughly the same, but that it seems bigger because, as you say, there's more altitude (adding a z-axis, if you like).

I also cannot wait, yet the laws of physics demand I must 

If only they'd added neutrinos to the game! Then we could play it prior to release.


----------



## LadyLara

thaddeus6th said:


> Really, LadyLara? I'll have to go back and check, I thought they weren't. Cheers
> 
> Red, you're right, it was 6-7GB. I'm surprised that Skyrim is less, to be honest.


 
Yeah if you just search for the book it doesn't give the option to buy the ebook so it looks like it isn't. But if you search specifically in the Kindle store you can find them.

And I checked my Oblivion installation on the PS3 and it's only 4.6 GB so not sure what I'm missing :/


----------



## thaddeus6th

I got the Game of the Year Edition, which included Knights of the Nine and the Shivering Isles expansions, so that might account for the size difference.


----------



## Menion

I've only read the first book, it was...good, enjoyable. But it finnished just as it started to get going. And it's been a long wait for the second book. 
I will be buying it though, I'm sure it'll have a good ending to the story.


----------



## Red 13

thaddeus6th said:


> I got the Game of the Year Edition, which included Knights of the Nine and the Shivering Isles expansions, so that might account for the size difference.



Yeah, same here.


----------



## devilsgrin

I have my Skyrim already... but CRY... can't play til tomorrow


----------



## Menion

devilsgrin said:


> I have my Skyrim already... but CRY... can't play til tomorrow


 
Steam or disc? Lucky devil


----------



## devilsgrin

disc. one of the retailers in Oz broke the embargo, so all the other stores (well all the ones quick enough to realise what had happened) were able to sell today, rather than wait til tomorrow.

although, since its like 11:20 pm as i type this, i wonder if i'll be able to play once midnight passes here


----------



## thaddeus6th

Gah. Ordered the PS3 version with Amazon, and some have already received their copies, but mine hasn't been dispatched yet. I ordered it aaages ago, so they clearly don't have a proper queue system (ie dispatches done in line with the date the order was made).

Hope it gets here tomorrow. I'll probably use GAME or shopto next time, as they have reputations for delivering games 1 or 2 days early.


----------



## Bugg

Pre-ordered it from Game and it arrived a day early! Played for 3 or 4 hours yesterday. Decided to go the Battlemage route, as I did the rogue/stealth/sniper role to death in Oblivion. It got me hooked pretty much straight away. It's stunning.

I don't like the spiders though <<shudder>>


----------



## Snowdog

So how are people who've already bought it finding it? I've seen comments on the Besthesda forums such as 'amazing' and 'best game ever' but I've also seen many pages of technical issues. It obviously looks good but how does it play? Does it feel like a RPG or more like a FPS?


----------



## Red 13

I've played it for about 5 hours and i'm finding it absolutely brilliant. I havn't had any technical problems so far. It is definatly stunning. I would say its more RPG but the first person view and combat is definatly just as good as any FPS out there. The hole interface has been simplafied and is way better than Oblivions. The best thing is that you can put any weapon, clothing, spells or items in a favorite list so that you can use anything at any moment by just pushing up which makes the list appear, pausing the game, so you can choose whatever you need to use. The spells are great too and the dual wielding system is great fun. So far i have no complaints.


----------



## thaddeus6th

I've had one proper bug, a freeze. Just one so far, after six hours, and not had one since (I hope it's a one-off or rare occurrence).

Made a First Impressions post on my blog:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.com/2011/11/skyrim-first-impressions.html

The short version is that I'm enjoying it a lot, most things are improved upon (some substantially) and I love the look of the new Khajiit. However, some people have had serious issues with freezes or suchlike.


----------



## Snowdog

I'm surprised they've dumped the inventory doll. That's been a staple of RPGs since I can remember. Maybe it conflicted with the favourite list thingy mentioned by Red 13.

I understand that, like in Oblivion, the world levels as you do. That's a pretty bad idea but it seems standard now for Bethesda. That got modded out in Oblivion and I daresay it will eventually in Skyrim if you have the PC version.


----------



## LadyLara

So are there more than 3 voice actors this time?


----------



## devilsgrin

without any exaggeration whatsoever... BEST... GAME... EVER... (at least best sandbox RPG EVER, and a contender for greatest game ever made without a doubt). Have encountered absolutely zero bugs related to quests/dialogue after almost 24 hours of play.

The only problem i'm having is occasionally when i go to enter combat especially if i'm casting magic, i get a total CTD (crash to desktop). The game just totally collapses. (i've learned to SAVE SAVE SAVE and then SAVE again). 

Voice acting is significantly better than Oblivion. All seem to be very different. And i've yet to notice even variations on accent/tone from the save voice actor on more than 2 people in the same Hold. And in most cases, haven't noticed the same actor in the same location at all. 

The game feels (movement and character wise) VERY much like Fallout 3. So if you enjoyed the way your character moved, and other characters/enemies moved in that, then you'll enjoy it here as well. 

Am LOVING TO DEATH the rare kill moves (they may only be rare for me, since i favour magic over sword, and only really fallback onto a sword when i'm OOP). They're like the kill shots you get in V.A.T.S in Fallout 3/NV. But more dynamic since these are from close combat, not killshots from a gun.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Snowdog, the world does level with you, but only to an extent (it's more like Fallout 3 than Oblivion). I can't say for certain as my highest level character's only level 10, but so far it seems to work reasonably well (perhaps aided by the fact that the new levelling system is seventy-three times better than Oblivion's).

LadyLara, there are more voice actors  One gripe is that loads of the Nords have decent Nordic accents, but a few of them (mostly kids) are blatantly American. It's like The Hunt for Red October.

Devilsgrin, I'm confused. Do you like the game or not? 

Reminds me, actually, I need to get the patch installed. Oh, and I'd agree with you regarding the Fallout 3 vibe. Technically, FO3 was better than Oblivion, but I prefer fantasy to apocalyptic future worlds, so to see the two mixed in Skyrim is good.


----------



## LadyLara

Well all the Nords had American accents in Oblivion anyway, so I've got no idea what a "Nordic" accent is supposed to sound like anyway. It can't be as bad the the Khajiits/Argonians in Oblivion where all the females were American and all the males were Russian for some reason.


----------



## Fake Vencar

On one of the pre-release videos, it said that they'd used over 80 different voice actors. Bit of a difference from the 10 or so used in Oblivion!


----------



## LadyLara

I remember thinking it was much better in Fallout 3. After a while you started spotting the same voices, but they all seemed to be different at first and it never got as samey as Oblivion did.


----------



## Brian G Turner

Enjoying it here - much more real and gritty - however, when you look at Oblivion again, Skyrim looks very grey and blue. Oblivion looks more warm and inviting by comparison.

No probs with the game - having a lot of fun with it, and enjoying the levelling system as well - much better than in Oblivion. 




Snowdog said:


> I understand that, like in Oblivion, the world levels as you do.



So far as I understand it, levelling works as follows:

1. Some places contain characters of a specific level, regardless of your level. For example, there are places near Whiterun filled with low-level creatures/NPC's regardless of how high your level is. Additionally, there are levels where there are NPC's or monsters of high level that will slaughter any low level players.

2. Once you have visited a place, if you return and creatures have respawned, they will only ever respawn at the same level as when you first discovered the place.

3. The higher up in the mountains you go, the more likely you'll meet higher level creatures that will mash you.


Already visited a few places where there was something way above my level and couldn't kill - visiting the Pale Lady even at level 8 proved fatal unless I snuck/ran past. Giants are tough, full stop, and met a form of Dreugh that would eat me for breakfast.

And then at level 13, visited a fort near Whiterun - filled with bandits in fur. Hur, hur, that was fun.


----------



## Aun Doorback

Loving every minute of it so far (Only 2 sessions) -  Chased by Giants, hunting mammoth, brawling in a pub, clubing skeletons -Fine stuff all round


----------



## Dozmonic

Giants would be tough if kiting with fire magic wasn't so very easy. I downed my first giant at level 5 with a pure mage and feel it could be done at level 1 in all honesty, though you'd just be waiting longer for magicka regen 

Definitely a fun game. One I'm trying to resist my fatal flaw of "this is my flavour of the hour... no now I want this character... now this character... oh sneaky bow crit shots would be nice... ooh and what about...!!!"


----------



## No One

I know what you mean Dozmonic. That's why I almost always make my first character a straight-up warrior, which I think is the purest way to experience the game world (thief/assassin and mage characters to follow ). I've only scratched the surface so far (just took down my first dragon! Huzzah!) and loving it more and more. I'm currently engaged in struggling to earn enough money for a house to store my equipment.

Re: Brian: that sounds like a perfect compromise for those of us who didn’t take to Oblivion’s style of near-redundant levelling (bloody goblins!). I’m really glad to see Bethesda do this, as well as taking cues from the excellence that was Morrowind and Fallout 3.

Besides the stunning – if understandably less colourful – scenery, the atmospherics of the game are far beyond that of Oblivion. Dust particles in dungeons and mines, early morning mists, mountain fogs and the overall weather system are just incredible.

Awesome stuff.


----------



## thaddeus6th

That's very similar to my main character, No One. I was also eager to get a house quickly, as I tend to hoard things.

I've also made a pure(ish) stealth character and a pure mage. At the moment I'd say Shadowfang the Khajiit's had the smoothest progress, and Lucrecia the High Elf the most difficult (she tends to either immolate her foes in 5 seconds or get killed).


----------



## slack

Every time I load up this game for a couple hours of play I have a 'wow' moment where something in the game forces me to pause and appreciate its beauty. This last time it was coming up the side of a hill and seeing a Dwemer ruin for the first time (since Morrowind). 

Put about 50 hours into the game so far and have only done 5 main quests.


----------



## TheTomG

Awesome game, only just getting started. Loved Oblivion and am loving this. I am currently a warrior mage archer rogue haha... what can I say, I love to sneak and pick locks, and then I like to set things on fire and follow that with a slash from a sword.

That said, I have decided archery is my "must have" skill, seems the most useful against dragons.

Best moment so far, stopping at a glowing pool, going to pick Nirnroot and then wondering why I am on fire, and turning to find my horse running screaming, also on fire, pursued by a dragon who had shown up unannounced with no story line, then running to a nearby mill (having failed to find whether my horse escaped its plight or not) and finding the dragon landing on the mill and proceeding to torch the owner of said building. At least I think they were the owner, didn't get to chat before they were unpleasantly roasted.

Did the dragon torch the poor person simply because I lead it there? Was it a random encounter or does the dragon always assault all comers to that pool? No idea. It was brill!


----------



## devilsgrin

TheTomG said:


> Awesome game, only just getting started. Loved Oblivion and am loving this. I am currently a warrior mage archer rogue haha... what can I say, I love to sneak and pick locks, and then I like to set things on fire and follow that with a slash from a sword.
> 
> That said, I have decided archery is my "must have" skill, seems the most useful against dragons.
> 
> Best moment so far, stopping at a glowing pool, going to pick Nirnroot and then wondering why I am on fire, and turning to find my horse running screaming, also on fire, pursued by a dragon who had shown up unannounced with no story line, then running to a nearby mill (having failed to find whether my horse escaped its plight or not) and finding the dragon landing on the mill and proceeding to torch the owner of said building. At least I think they were the owner, didn't get to chat before they were unpleasantly roasted.
> 
> Did the dragon torch the poor person simply because I lead it there? Was it a random encounter or does the dragon always assault all comers to that pool? No idea. It was brill!



you can blame yourself for the demise of the poor miller. 
there are plenty of dragons that spawn - almost ALL when you fast travel to a location. these are usually un-named "Dragon" or "Blood Dragon"s the ones that are killed during the main quest all seem to be named. 
be grateful for all those dragons... otherwise your relying on finding dragon armours.
Archery is VERY useful (MUCH moreso than in any previous elder scrolls game)... but even it doesn't beat a high Destruction skill and a duel-cast firebolt or ice shard. Archery, in its favour, doesn't rely on casting the correct element spells. 
I love the EVERY-Role character. Elder Scrolls games are the only ones where being that character is not limiting - thanks to all the side quests you can do to keep all the skills at a reasonably level for your character level.


----------



## Bugg

I happened upon a dragon having a fight with a giant.  We killed the dragon.  Then the giant killed me.  Not very friendly, I thought.


----------



## soulsinging

This game is getting pretty intriguing to me. I'm usually not much for games that involve leveling up or open worlds, but I did love Shining Force back in the day (I know this is totally different) and the idea of a nice new fantasy world to explore sounds fun. Especially since I already beat Uncharted and Batman Arkham City isn't quite as fascinating as I'd hoped.

Is there a steep learning curve on this game? I've never played anything like it I don't think... not even Final Fantasy.


----------



## Dozmonic

There's no steep learning curve, no. You have skills to improve by using them and increasing this skills gives you experience towards your next level. Each time you increase your level you can assign a perk in a skill area to specialise it and assign yourself a little more health, stamina or magicka (mana, for casting spells). The game itself will teach you the rest. Choose a type of character that appeals to you and play him through. If you want to have an orc wearing heavy armour, weilding a two handed weapon, crafting his own items, so be it. If you want a stealthy archer with poisoned blades, so be it. If you want to protect yourself with magic while summoning zombies and the like to fight for you - you got it - so be it


----------



## TheTomG

The learning curve is broad but not steep, right enough. You level a skill just by using it, and none of it is too complex. Where it gets hard is the sheer breadth of skills on offer, so many things to try and see and do.

Man, so that poor person died a fiery death all due to me? Both alarming and wonderful! I found another dragon flapping around and did try to lure him down to some giants and mammoths, but with no luck. Was looking forward to that spectacle that Bugg had seen it seems!

I think I missed a chance to train a wolf as a companion, but maybe not. Love having to take sides in one thing or another - who to believe? Whether to do the good and noble thing, or the despicable and selfish thing.

Finally got my own house and just did it up, but on the way down there to see how it looks now I got sidetracked (no! Never!) into exploring the Halls of the Dead. I can't even walk through town without getting sidetracked!


----------



## devilsgrin

TheTomG said:


> The learning curve is broad but not steep, right enough. You level a skill just by using it, and none of it is too complex. Where it gets hard is the sheer breadth of skills on offer, so many things to try and see and do.
> 
> Man, so that poor person died a fiery death all due to me? Both alarming and wonderful! I found another dragon flapping around and did try to lure him down to some giants and mammoths, but with no luck. Was looking forward to that spectacle that Bugg had seen it seems!
> 
> I think I missed a chance to train a wolf as a companion, but maybe not. Love having to take sides in one thing or another - who to believe? Whether to do the good and noble thing, or the despicable and selfish thing.
> 
> Finally got my own house and just did it up, but on the way down there to see how it looks now I got sidetracked (no! Never!) into exploring the Halls of the Dead. I can't even walk through town without getting sidetracked!



I saw the Dragon vs. Mammoths and Giants battle near Whiterun - at Scoundrel's Cave (iirc its name), and also at the same place - since its a nice convenient fast travel location for a few things i needed to do - i watched Dragons vs Sabretooth Cats. (honestly, i find Dragons EASY to kill. The SabreCats... they've killed me a couple times, and the Giants got me once too, oh and i find Spriggans incredibly tough for some reason).

Did you get the Whiterun house? Its quite nice. But just wait til you get the Solitude Mansion... OMFG, its impressive. indeed, all of Solitude is stunning.


----------



## No One

TheTomG said:


> I think I missed a chance to train a wolf as a companion, but maybe not.



Me too! I'm gutted. I'm assuming that was the wolf freed from a cage in a cave (?) somewhere? Does anyone know for sure whether this is the case?

Agreed with Devilsgrin - Dragons are a little easy to bring down given their size. And fast travelling certainly seems like a good way to bring them out. I jumped to the Stormcloak camp, turned around, and BAM, dragon lands right in front of me. Awesome. Spriggans are a little gnarly but as a two-handed weapon fighter they're not so bad. Giants are definitely to be avoided for now though.

I've found my first Dwemer ruins, but haven't explored it yet - looking forward to that. The environment just keeps impressing and impressing...


----------



## LadyLara

Is it possible to avoid all this dragon attack stuff? Sure, it sounds like fun and I'm sure when playing through the main quest I'd love to do it, but if I'm playing through a second or third time to do the mage's guild storyline (or whatever storylines there are) am I going to be beseiged by dragons all the time?

When I played Oblivion through with other characters I never started the main quest and so never had to have oblivion gates popping up everywhere and ruining the landscape in those games, which I definitely appreciated.


----------



## TheTomG

My dragon attack occurred without progressing very far through the story line, though I had gone and killed the first story line dragon, so I don't know for sure - I get the impression they are there anyway whether you advance the main quest or not, the random dragon encounters.

They aren't as irritating as the gates though.

On the wolf, I think that is something I'll look forward to on my second playthrough, and yes its the one in the cage. I've not spoiled it by looking it up to see if its trainable, but the characters in the game give the impression that it might be, so definitely will return and try again. That said, with my wonderful combat skills, it would likely end up frozen and stabbed the first time it accompanied me into battle, ahem.

Anyway, now trying to follow the main quest line again for a bit, though it's a long ride over there and SO much to stop and investigate on the way....

Oh, anyone else playing find that their horse is a bit of an aggressive monster? Mine will actively chase down wolves, or anyone that attacks it, rather than run away because it's only a horse and this is a pack of 3 wolves, or a group of 4 bandits. Oh no, on it goes, attacking and chasing, running up stairs to get to people shooting it with bows, etc. It's a fierce beast I tell you.

I think it may have killed as many people as I have, that horse (more a testament to my still-lousy archery than it is an accolade on my horse's combat prowess.)


----------



## Dozmonic

My horse, steed of the mighty Tidbit, was killed by a frost dragon he thought it would be a good idea to engage in single combat while I was humming songs, picking flowers and mining ore. It got knocked down the side of a mountain and was in quite an untidy heap at the bottom :-(


----------



## thaddeus6th

LadyLara, if you don't do the first few bits of the main quest dragons don't show up (I think).


----------



## No One

Yeah I'm sure I read somewhere that dragons only turn up as random encounters once you've started the main quest - which I assume is after you report to the Jarl at Whiterun.

On another note, has anyone here joined the Companions? cos my word did I have an EPIC mission last night! I was accompanied by one of them who fought beside me (and was glad for it, as it turned out), and early on there was a simply awesome set piece which had me practically cheering (I won't ruin the surprise though ).

After that we pressed on into one fight after another after another - the place was _huuuuge _and forced me to backtrack for an equipment dump. After another fight, which involved a particularly tough orc and culminated in my first decapitation (which was brilliant!) my companion was left all but crippled, unable to use an arm and a leg! I don't know if it was scripted or what, but he was crawling along at a snail's pace, leaving me to run ahead and face what was left on my own. And as it turned out, that was a lot. Only when we finally moved into another area of the complex did he find his feet again, but by then it was all over.

Would love to go into details, but don't wanna spoil anything. Suffice to say, it turned into one of the best gaming sessions I've ever enjoyed. I was exhausted afterwards but so chuffed.

Once again - EPIC!


----------



## TheTomG

I think I know what mission you mean and I am due to tackle that one next in that quest line. Thanks for no spoilers that is appreciated!  Enough of a tease to whet my appetite without spoiling anything  oh, also let's me know not to launch into it expecting a 15 minute event, which is also handy to know!


----------



## No One

TheTomG said:


> I think I know what mission you mean and I am due to tackle that one next in that quest line. Thanks for no spoilers that is appreciated!  Enough of a tease to whet my appetite without spoiling anything  oh, also let's me know not to launch into it expecting a 15 minute event, which is also handy to know!



Yeah, I think it took me over three hours all told! Although like I say that did involve some backtracking and a needless 20 minutes of replaying after I died at one point. Also, I was massively slowed down by said crippled companion and I tend to be very thorough in my searching around, so times will no doubt be variable.

Nevertheless, enjoy!  I'd like to hear about your own experience with that mission when you're finished.


----------



## soulsinging

Ok, another question from a prospective buyer... are any of you playing this on PS3? I've read that there are some big problems with that version.


----------



## devilsgrin

LadyLara said:


> Is it possible to avoid all this dragon attack stuff? Sure, it sounds like fun and I'm sure when playing through the main quest I'd love to do it, but if I'm playing through a second or third time to do the mage's guild storyline (or whatever storylines there are) am I going to be beseiged by dragons all the time?
> 
> When I played Oblivion through with other characters I never started the main quest and so never had to have oblivion gates popping up everywhere and ruining the landscape in those games, which I definitely appreciated.



as far as i'm aware, the dragons - as random encounters - are there regardless, since you know they're active from the opening. 
that said they are NOTHING LIKE THE OBLIVION GATES AT ALL. A single dragon to kill, vs. a whole fracking other dimension... not a comparison at all. the only dragon drawback is the weight of their bones and skin... never-the-less, the dragon battles are hella fun. and even repeated battles can be entertaining, and even challenging (despite the relative ease - due to repetition, it gets rather simple to know how to take a dragon down, and again thats how is almost should be, given Who your character is). 

Also, the Main Quest is actually pretty damn good. Infinitely better than in Oblivion. And SO much of it coincides smoothly with side quests, you can almost complete parts by default.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Soulsinging, I am. My PS3 model is a 40GB old fat one.

From what I've read, the 'proper' bugs (ie potentially game-breaking rather than inconvenient) are thus:
1) Freezes
2) Slowdown as time plays increases

From my experience (I've got 3 characters, highest level is 21, so that's low to middle of the range):

1) Had 3 of these. Bloody annoying, but uncommon enough not to really piss me off. 
2) There is some more lag and occasional (sometimes very noticeable) dips in frame-rate. The problem for me is that this is only meant to get really bad when save files reach 9-12MB, and mine is about 6.5MB right now so I can't say whether the game does become unplayable or not. 

Incidentally, turning off autosave (which happens too much anyway) may help with the freezing issue. 

I suspect the PC *might* be the best option for someone concerned about bugs and who has all 3 platforms to choose from, but obviously you've got to do your own research for the Xbox (which I hear has texture issues) and the PC. If you've got any more questions, please ask away 

Devilsgrin: this isn't the case. Shadowfang's been around for over 20 hours and hasn't encountered a single dragon in the open.


----------



## Brian G Turner

soulsinging said:


> Ok, another question from a prospective buyer... are any of you playing this on PS3? I've read that there are some big problems with that version.



A couple of freezes, but nothing else noted in the gameplay. Minor annoyance no doubt will be shortly patched.


----------



## TheTomG

Playing on the PS3 here too. Would probably have opted for PC but it was a gift - may well be for the best, it at least keeps me in the same room as other family members, has some built-in time controls in the form of other people wanting to use the telly (how inconsiderate!) and finally keeps it off of my writing place so it's less of a distraction!

So far, no problems experienced. Save files only at 5Mb or so, no idea if things will slow down (Oblivion on the Xbox used to, opening inventory or going in houses got real slow until a cache was cleared, I seem to recall.) So in terms of sheer gameplay I would probably recommend the PC version - and let's not forget the various hacks and mods that opens up as another plus, also depending on the power of your PC you should get better graphics too - but I have no issues with the PS3 version and am quite happy to be playing that one.


----------



## thaddeus6th

Brian, how far along are you? Specifically, how big's your largest save file? It's meant to be around 8-9MB plus that the serious lag begins.

Also, buying houses is a pain in the arse. I'd prefer it if you could just do it immediately, rather than jumping through hoops.


----------



## LadyLara

devilsgrin said:


> as far as i'm aware, the dragons - as random encounters - are there regardless, since you know they're active from the opening.
> that said they are NOTHING LIKE THE OBLIVION GATES AT ALL. A single dragon to kill, vs. a whole fracking other dimension... not a comparison at all. the only dragon drawback is the weight of their bones and skin... never-the-less, the dragon battles are hella fun. and even repeated battles can be entertaining, and even challenging (despite the relative ease - due to repetition, it gets rather simple to know how to take a dragon down, and again thats how is almost should be, given Who your character is).
> 
> Also, the Main Quest is actually pretty damn good. Infinitely better than in Oblivion. And SO much of it coincides smoothly with side quests, you can almost complete parts by default.


 
I didn't actually meant closing the Obvlivion gates as such, but I didn't even like them popping up all over the place spoiling the views


----------



## Phoenixthewriter

I've played to level 13, and haven't completed the initial quest to bring about the dragons.  Honestly I'm going to try and do as much as I can without the interference of dragons!  

Maybe max out the Thieves guild, find a wife, join the Imperial Legion...  Since the game is only 10 days old, I've got plenty of time to enjoy the dragons.  I am just having a blast doing odd chores for people and improving my rep with the cities.

Thane of Riften...  Oh yeah, just bought a house!


----------



## Dozmonic

The dragons are a fun thing to encounter. I'm trying to find one or two more so I can craft my last piece of dragon armour and patch it up to legendary status. Then I can work on completing the armour sets I skipped because I'm rubbish at finding ebony


----------



## Red 13

Everytime i buy a horse it just gets killed after about 5 minutes!! The horses obviously aren't as sturdy as in Oblivion.
Does anyone know if there's a difference in what type of horse you get, depending on where you buy it?


----------



## Brian G Turner

thaddeus6th said:


> Brian, how far along are you? Specifically, how big's your largest save file? It's meant to be around 8-9MB plus that the serious lag begins.



Level 20 something - only frozen once, though not sure how big the files are.

It's getting played about 5 hours per day among all the family, and only had a couple of problems freezing - not often at all.


----------



## devilsgrin

Red 13 said:


> Everytime i buy a horse it just gets killed after about 5 minutes!! The horses obviously aren't as sturdy as in Oblivion.
> Does anyone know if there's a difference in what type of horse you get, depending on where you buy it?



All the generic horses are easily killable.
Frost and Shadowmere (this horse seems almost identical to the Shadowmere in Oblivion, and is actually a powerful combat monster, so essentially with him, you can have up to 4 companions (counting Follower, Dog, Shadowmere and a Summoned Monster fighting for you)... function more like companions in they seem to go down, but not die. 
So complete the quests for a certain non-lighted grouping of brothers...
or Steal Frost. (theres a quest to make him "legally" yours, but its still stealing technically)


----------



## LadyLara

Gah. I've got to stop coming in here and readin this thread. I haven't got the game yet and don't want to spoil a thing but I can't help myself!


----------



## Wiggum

Just bought. Haven't opened. Wanna fight dragons.


----------



## devilsgrin

devilsgrin said:


> All the generic horses are easily killable.
> Frost and Shadowmere (this horse seems almost identical to the Shadowmere in Oblivion, and is actually a powerful combat monster, so essentially with him, you can have up to 4 companions (counting Follower, Dog, Shadowmere and a Summoned Monster fighting for you)... function more like companions in they seem to go down, but not die.
> So complete the quests for a certain non-lighted grouping of brothers...
> or Steal Frost. (theres a quest to make him "legally" yours, but its still stealing technically)



Amending my comment. Appears only Shadowmere is "unkillable," my poor Frost was slain in combat..... and no amount of reloading saves could save him.


----------



## Red 13

devilsgrin said:


> Amending my comment. Appears only Shadowmere is "unkillable," my poor Frost was slain in combat..... and no amount of reloading saves could save him.



I have a theory on the week ass horses in Skyrim and that is that they've done it on purpose because they're going to bring out a payable add on where you get horse armour like they did for oblivion,hahaha! This time people will really want to buy it!


----------



## TheTomG

(tries not to have spoilers by mentioning no locations, but just in case, this does describe a short sojourn through an area)

*One of Cromarty's tales*

I was riding along, and suddenly I was assaulted by a stream of bolts of frost and fire from an unseen enemy, my strength rapidly sapped by the onslaught. I back off and dismount, and move forward carefully again through the undergrowth, taking pains to remain unseen and unheard, letting them think their attack had sent me fleeing.

Witches! The whole area is patrolled by them, around what I guess must be a central camp of some sort. I manage to locate them one by one, and with my bow alone I slay them. Most never even realize the direction their death comes from.

Eventually I have ended all the lives of the lesser witches, and I approach the camp, still unseen and unknown to whoever is in there, and I discover their "witch mother." A game of cat and mouse follows as I pick at her with arrows and she searches desperately to find a target for her fierce magics. She is much tougher than her followers or students, whichever it might have been, and there are times I fear for my life as I try to hit home with my arrows while remaining in shelter from her magical attacks.

In the end, I triumph! I am feeling very pleased with myself, more so as I find an item to complete a task I had been asked to do. It is with much smug glee that I leave the area and return to my faithful steed.... who is on his side on the ground, quite dead.

My joy stolen, I pause and wonder who has done this deed, slain a lone horse. He has always been safe before when left alone, but now he is here, his corpse still cooling and full of arrows.

There was a dead bandit who had wandered into an arcane trap back there at the witches demesne, perhaps they had slain my unnamed charger on their way? Perhaps stray arrows from my engagements, since my aim is not perfect, had found an unintended target in my own mount?

I realize I will never know, and take what is useful from the body - waste not, want not - and rise from my crouched inspection to continue on my way on foot.

I stick to the paths and roads in this mountainous and unknown area, deciding not to head to the cities just yet. A fort is marked on my map, information gleaned from an earlier exploration of a map room, and perhaps they have horses for sale there, or at least ones that can be 'obtained' if needed. The ability to move about unseen has advantages beyond those in combat.

A passing hunter has nothing interesting to say or sell, but a nearby cave grabs my attention. Inside I find... vampires! I feel the thrill of excitement. I have longed to be turned, as the expression goes, as I know (or at least, I think I do) the benefits that come with that, and yes, I am aware of the drawbacks too, or at least what the legends of other times say about the pros and cons of such a thing.

I slay a few, but decide I will wait to be converted to one of their kind. I have things to do yet that might be hindered by the downsides of such a change; at least I know where to come to invite their bite.

I resume my journey to the point marked on the map, and indeed find a fort, but it is no longer under the control of those who built it. I had hoped to find a refuge, a place for rest and companionship, to buy and sell, and to search for a new faithful steed, but instead I find it overrun with bandits.

Most are easy pickings as I move around unseen and they look down in surprise at their body to find that an arrow is embedded there and they slump from their chairs, dead before they had time to rise. Clearly they are lazy and complacent, fresh from their conquest of the building and thinking it theirs now.

Their leader proves to be a significant challenge, and yes I must call upon the dark magic of the amulet of time (_I have to reload after dying ahem_) more than once before he finally lays dead at my feet. Some further exploration reveals a worthy haul, some new armor to keep me safe in my battles, and I feel the pang and regret at the loss of my horse lessened.

Now, where to go from here? So many choices, so many choices....


----------



## LadyLara

Got this today, haven't played it yet. Got to say I'm a bit disappointed with the manual though. I do like a nice big manual and Oblivion and Fallout 3 both had decent sized ones, this one is just a bit of a pamphlet in comparison. Maybe the PC version has a proper one and they just assume console owners don't know how to read.


----------



## thaddeus6th

The manual is too thin, I agree. No info about the races (either in terms of lore or racial bonuses/weakness/abilities) is a bit disappointing.


----------



## Snowdog

thaddeus6th said:


> The manual is too thin, I agree. No info about the races (either in terms of lore or racial bonuses/weakness/abilities) is a bit disappointing.



They wanted to a) save on printing costs, and b) get you to buy the strategy guide. I usually do end up buying the strategy guide for these games, so a poor manual isn't that big of a problem, but the quality and depth of manuals has definitely gone way down in the last few years, for most games.

"and they just assume console owners don't know how to read". Well they don't, do they? 

Does anyone remember a game called Star Fleet 1 for the PC? It was a Star Trek clone and was virtually a text-based game. The manual was absolutely huge.


----------



## thaddeus6th

That seems a bit weird to me. There's a ton of free info online, particularly for a series like the Elder Scrolls.

Mind you, I did used to buy game guides.


----------



## Brian G Turner

For a good online guide, this place is usually good - though the Skyrim section is still in development: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skyrim


----------



## LadyLara

It's not about that though, it's about having a neat little package all in itself. I've got old RPG games for the Amiga or whatever that I've got off ebay where the box is really big and it's full of maps and loads of extra things and it's all a really nice thing to own in its own right. I know I can find info about it online, or maybe the game itself even has a comrpehensive tutorial in it, but it's not the same.

I know this is pretty much the same mentality as all those people talking about the feel and smell of real books that I'm always arguing against in those ebook thread, but hey I'm only human and I can't be expected to be consistent all the time


----------



## Dozmonic

I always did love manuals when I was younger. With the advent of steam, direct2drive and the like, I don't even bother trying to find the manual half the time. Games are so simple they generally don't need them


----------



## TheTomG

The in-game help covers most of what is needed, but I know what you mean about enjoying a good manual too. Hope you enjoy your new purchase!


----------



## Red 13

The manual is a bit small but i really like the map of Skyrim.


----------



## Brian G Turner

Finding myself not too bothered about playing this too much - gameplay very much like Oblivion, but felt Oblivion had more of a fun element.


----------



## Bugg

I've switched from the 360 version to the pc version.  Soooo much better.  Runs like a dream on my pc, plus 'no spiders' mod!! 

Haven't encountered any crashes or bugs ... yet ...

For anyone in the UK still undecided, there's a 24 hr deal on the Game website today:  360/PS3 versions £22.49, PC version £19.99


----------



## Wybren

I've started playing this, I am up to level 23 now, playing as a Nord. I haven't done too much of the main quest yet, but I am thoroughly enjoying it. The only issue I have had with it so far was my power supply going bang and the computer not working, not really a problem with the game though


----------



## LadyLara

Bugg said:


> For anyone in the UK still undecided, there's a 24 hr deal on the Game website today: 360/PS3 versions £22.49, PC version £19.99


 
It's £22.49 on amazon now anyway for the PS3.


----------



## Connavar

I have never really liked these kind of games, the world, the choices usually bored me before i got sucked in.  My brother bought the game a week ago and he works nights so i play the days im at home.  I have never played Oblivion or whatever game was before in the similar world.  Im playing as a Nord called Kane and who looks like Conan 

Im on level 13 now since the world is big and wonderful.  I try to do all the small quest. I just love going to hunt in caves and get all that gold, get more levels,powerful. 


I thought the undead,dragons, human enemies was not powerful enough to be a real challenge until i met my first powerful witch that threw firebolts in my face and owned me when i was on the road to the Greybeards.  I like fighting mages,witches.  You have have tactics,use magic wisely.

Right now i havent played in two days because i have an essay to finish but i look forward to getting addicted, lost in that huge,open world.


----------



## Wiggum

I CAN'T GET PAST LEVEL 8!

I swear, everything I do is past my level, and I don't know where to grind out a couple.

I have plenty of gold, but haven't found a trader to upgrade my equipment beyond the towns I've been to.

And if I get killed by another sprite made of green fire flies, I'm going to lose my mind.

Outside of that, I adore it


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## DianaIlinca

It makes me sad that I can't really add to this thread because I haven't played it...yet. (so wanna)


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## Wiggum

I made it to level 9!

Then promptly got smoked when I made it to the Grey Beards mountain top.


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## JDP

Played this for a few hours on and off since christmas. I'm a fan of the franchise and love it so far - particularly the new archery mechanics.


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## Arkose

I have played up too level 11 about 5-6 times now playing with different styles.

So far the most fun I have had is:

Breton- 1h/shield warrior and Conjuration
 -Conjur DPS help and a sword (with the conjur weapon perks)
 -Heavy armor and a shield
 -Never die if your paying attention
 -Dragons don't stand a chance

Going to play around with a Dark elf (illusion/destruction) and become a vampire to see how that goes. 

Also need to try out a basic wood elf hunter option.


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## Brian G Turner

Currently level 45, Nord barbarian - currently using an ebony warhammer, 99 damage + 30 storm damage. Will use daedric weapons once my enchanting skill is higher.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae

My brother and I got it, finally, over Christmas and I do have to point out one potentially major leveling abuse:

Smithing. Within just a couple hours of playing my brother managed to become a master with smithing and put his character up fifteen levels. He decided to go the archer route and so he was very able to abuse the smithing skill by making a truckload of leather bracers and selling the things off. Within just a couple days he was already wearing dragon armor and using a glass bow.


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## Arkose

Karn Maeshalanadae said:


> My brother and I got it, finally, over Christmas and I do have to point out one potentially major leveling abuse:
> 
> Smithing. Within just a couple hours of playing my brother managed to become a master with smithing and put his character up fifteen levels. He decided to go the archer route and so he was very able to abuse the smithing skill by making a truckload of leather bracers and selling the things off. Within just a couple days he was already wearing dragon armor and using a glass bow.



The only problem with that is that your weapon skills don't match the level of the enemy. All enemies level are based off your level, found this out early by doing quests at different times.

Conjuration has the same problem.


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## Arkose

I said:


> Currently level 45, Nord barbarian - currently using an ebony warhammer, 99 damage + 30 storm damage. Will use daedric weapons once my enchanting skill is higher.



Hows the two handed weapon in fights? The couple of times I tried it I kept missing everything.


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## Brian G Turner

Arkose said:


> Hows the two handed weapon in fights? The couple of times I tried it I kept missing everything.



Similar to 1-handed, just slower and heavier, and does more damage. 

Am currently back on the main quest, crushing deathlords by the half-dozen - at once, single-handedly. 

And yet fighting against magical characters like Fire Mages and similar high-level mages leaves me running for cover and having to sneak around with a bow.


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