# TV: Once Upon a Time, and Game of Thrones



## Anthony G Williams (May 6, 2012)

This is my second look at *Once Upon a Time* as I commented a  month ago after seeing the first episode, but I've only just seen the first two episodes of *Game of Thrones* as I had to wait for the DVD (not having satellite TV).

The two programmes are similar in that they are examples of that rare beast, a TV fantasy series meant to appeal to adults. In fact, in the case of *GoT* _only_ to adults; the language, nudity and sex gaining it an 18 rating. In contrast, *OUaT* is entirely family-friendly. One other incidental similarity is in the detail: both include evil queens who are far more beautiful than the heroines (those seen so far, at least) - a very subversive feature!

Having said that, the two series are very different. Judging by the first two episodes, *GoT* is less of a fantasy and more of an alternative history. There are no fantastical elements included and it is little more than a fictionalised but convincing depiction of life as it was in Europe about 1,000 years ago. Perhaps it develops in more interesting directions later; the camera keeps dwelling on some supposedly fossilised "dragons' eggs" in a rather suggestive manner. Anyhow, while viewers are awaiting such developments, we can enjoy a well-scripted, well-acted show with high production values. The only downside is that I find it all rather depressing; after all, life at that time tended to be nasty, dark and dirty, and this is faithfully reflected in the story, which also has a sense of doom about it. _Not_ an alternative world I would choose to live in even as a member of the aristocracy, let alone a pleb.

*OUaT* is far more whimsical and lighthearted, despite the darker elements introduced by the evil queen and Rumpelstiltskin. It is also completely unrealistic in almost every respect - except that it is set in an ordinary-looking present-day American town, and the heroine is (as far as she knows) an ordinary American young woman. It is the clash between our expectations of the mundane setting as seen from the heroine's viewpoint, compared with what we discover is actually going on in that town, which provides the intrigue. There's a faint echo of *The Truman Show* here, except that in this case hardly anyone in the town is in on the secret. A picture of the events which led up to the present situation is built up by occasional flashbacks showing the town's inhabitants as they had been in their lost fairy-tale world of castles, royalty, dwarves and magical powers. The series is still holding my interest.

(An extract from my SFF blog)


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## Alysheba (May 25, 2012)

I like both series. I do however say they play to two very different audiences. GOT is on a network that is not plagued by the FCC so they have gore, nudity and language where OUAT does not. 

I do like how OUAT gives new twists on the stories we all grew up on. ABC is owned by Disney so they are really twisting the traditional fairy tales into a modern fantasy that works. I love Rumplestiltskin. He is by far my favorite character because he is neither good nor completely evil.


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## Anthony G Williams (May 25, 2012)

Alysheba said:


> I love Rumplestiltskin. He is by far my favorite character because he is neither good nor completely evil.


 
Hmm. So far, I haven't spotted any signs of anything but evil!


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## TL Rese (May 25, 2012)

Anthony G Williams said:


> Hmm. So far, I haven't spotted any signs of anything but evil!


 
*warning: spoilers!*

did you watch the episode where he turns into "the dark one"?  he starts out as this nice good guy, but then turns evil, so i guess you could make a case for him being both (good, and then bad).  he also helped emma win the election, altho his intentions haven't fully been revealed yet.

i really like this series - think the plot is pretty cleverly woven together.  the interesting thing about the baddies is that they all have a grain of goodness in them - the way rumplestiltskin turned evil only because he was trying to protect his son, and i luv the evil queen!  she is scary!!  but she is not completely devoid of love and tenderness - you can tell how hard it was for her to kill her own father and she seemed sad when she killed off the hunter.  and of course, the only reason she is out to get snow white is because supposedly snow took away someone the queen loved (but the details are still a mystery).

anyways, i am very pleased and can't wait for tomorrow's episode!!

- btw, haven't seen or read any GRRM.  i mite want to wait until all the books are out.  until then, am abstaining from reading any comments on the matter, in case of spoilers.


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## Anthony G Williams (May 28, 2012)

TL Rese said:


> *warning: spoilers!*
> 
> did you watch the episode where he turns into "the dark one"? he starts out as this nice good guy, but then turns evil, so i guess you could make a case for him being both (good, and then bad). he also helped emma win the election, altho his intentions haven't fully been revealed yet.


 
I've just seen that one, and I see what you mean. It turns him into a much more complex character, which is great for the story!


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## Alysheba (Jun 8, 2012)

I guess you guys are behind us as far as the series go. They all have reasons for being as they are. The Queen was an interesting one for me. Still, I can't forgive her for being as bad as she is.


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## Warren_Paul (Jun 14, 2012)

The character depth of Once Upon a Time is amazing, I'm really enjoying it. about to watch episode #15.


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## Alysheba (Jun 15, 2012)

I can't wait until next season!


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## Anthony G Williams (Sep 7, 2012)

I've finally reached the end of the 22-episode first season of *Once Upon a Time*, which I have briefly discussed early in the series (in April and May). To recap: the story begins in the present-day USA when Emma Swan (Jennifer Morrison), a young woman with a talent for finding people, is herself found by her son Henry (Jared S. Gilmore) whom she had given up for adoption ten years previously. She takes him back to his home town, Storybrooke, and immediately find herself in conflict with Regina Mills (Lana Parrilla), the town's mayor and the woman who had adopted Henry.

Henry has a firm belief that Storybrooke is no ordinary town but is populated by people from another time: characters from fairy tales who have been transported to the USA by a spell from an evil queen - who happens to be Regina Mills. Unsurprisingly Emma Swan refuses to believe him but the viewers of the series know better, since running in parallel with the scenes in Storybrooke are those from the land of fairy tales, in which we see the same characters as they used to be. So we know that teacher Mary Margaret Blanchard (Ginnifer Goodwin) is really Snow White - and Emma Swan's mother - and that her husband Prince Charming (Josh Dallas) has become David Nolan, a local handyman who is inconveniently married to someone else. 

The core of the plot in Storybrooke is the tussle between Regina and Emma, with Mr Gold, formerly the evil magician Rumpelstiltskin (Robert Carlyle) playing a mysterious game between the two of them. Meanwhile Henry is desperately trying to convince Emma that all is not as it seems, and that only she has the power to break the curse which preserves everyone in Storybrooke, frozen in time, and allows none of them to leave. As I mentioned in my previous comment on this series, there's a faint echo of *The Truman Show* here, except that in this case it seems that hardly anyone in the town except the mayor is in on the secret - although that is not quite true, as we slowly become to realise.

The programme makers have a wonderful time drawing on a wide range of fairy tales for the scenes set in fairyland, where we are shown a whole series of interlocking events (not always in chronological order) which gradually build up a picture of exactly what led up to the mass transfer to Storybrooke. The contrast between the scenes in Storybrooke and the interleaved ones set in an exotic world of queens and princes, magicians and spells, keeps the series interesting. The downside is that there are many characters (some of which play a major part in just one episode before disappearing) and many story lines, which leads to a certain lack of focus and drift from the main story. Despite this, I thoroughly enjoyed the series which finished on a cliff-hanger of an ending to set it up nicely for the forthcoming second season.

(An extract from my SFF blog: http://sciencefictionfantasy.blogspot.co.uk/)


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## Warren_Paul (Oct 29, 2012)

*** Beware of the Season Two Spoilers... ***




Have to say, Once Upon a Time continues to impress me. Redeeming Regina and introducing such unexpected characters like Mulan and Hook is making for some great storytelling. And not forgetting us discovering at last the identity of the suspicious Dr Whale, which was something they kept us guessing at the whole first season. 

Character depth is at its best as always. At this point the only antagonist I can comfortably declare evil is Cora.

.


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## Anthony G Williams (Oct 29, 2012)

Please put in a spoiler warning if you're taking about the second series - it hasn't arrived in the UK yet!


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## Warren_Paul (Oct 29, 2012)

Sorry, was not aware UK was behind on the show. A bit too late for me to do so now, but if a moderator is hanging around, would be nice to get some help with the matter.


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## Oct125 (Dec 7, 2012)

Once Upon a Time is always interesting, but in the second season they just made it too complex for my tastes. Not only do they shift back and forth between worlds, but also in time.


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## Dave (Jan 3, 2013)

Interestingly, I'm currently watching both these series in Season Ones.

*GoT* - I had already started the book and got someway through. Now I've seen the first episode on DVD box-set,  I think I will just watch the TV show and read something else instead. It is a long book, but I found I better understood the characters motives from the book. Also, the end of the first episode - Bran in the window with the Lanisters - IMHO there is a huge difference in the way that occurred between the book and the TV series, and so I'm not sure what else is changed. However, the costumes, the spectacle, is much better than my imagination could be. The Wall is far greater than I had imagined it too be. I'm looking forward to watching the rest. Season Two is out on DVD in the UK in March so I will probably get that too.

*OUaT* - This is fun and I'm enjoying it. Probably more that _GOT_. I'm watching it on BT Vision.

I think the 28 years of time stopping is a plot hole. Henry has aged 11 years but no one else did or noticed anything strange? James Charming's wife didn't look for him for 28 years? He was in intensive care for 28 years? I guess I can put that aside but there are other odd things regarding it that jar.

I would have preferred that the stories were the original versions and not the Disney variety - Dwarves called Grumpy, Snow White's Bluebirds, Jimminy Cricket, and why does he have a Dalmatian called Pongo? 

All the answers to my many questions will come, I'm sure. They seem to have really thought this universe out carefully and crafted this story with care and thought. 

I didn't seem the _Truman Show_ comparison myself. If anything it is the opposite of the _Truman Show_ since Henry is the only one who doesn't think it is real.

Anyway, I thoroughly recommend both series to all.


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## Warren_Paul (Jan 3, 2013)

Dave said:


> I think the 28 years of time stopping is a plot hole. Henry has aged 11 years but no one else did or noticed anything strange? James Charming's wife didn't look for him for 28 years? He was in intensive care for 28 years? I guess I can put that aside but there are other odd things regarding it that jar.



That depends on when Regina adopted him. Been awhile so I don't actually remember if it is mentioned or not, but maybe she didn't adopt him until he was 11? But the reason is more likely to do with the fact that Henry isn't cursed like the rest of them, just like Emma. Henry was born on Earth, free of the curse. Emma was gone from the old world before the curse happened. Neither of them were victims of it.

The intensive care situation with David (Prince Charming) isn't a plot hole that I can see. Their memories are tampered with. But I don't know how far through the show you are, so I won't fill in the blanks in case they are spoilers. 

I really like the alternative retelling of the stories. Regina's, Mr Gold's and Ruby's stories are so good.


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## Dave (Jan 3, 2013)

Warren_Paul said:


> That depends on when Regina adopted him.


Henry was adopted at 3 weeks old. Mr. Gold arranged it. Emma told Cinderella she was pregnant at 18. She just had her 28th Birthday in the first episode.

Prince James Charming's memory may have been altered (though he says he has no memory) but it doesn't alter the fact that he has woken from a coma after 28 years. That would surely have made national TV. 

However, I haven't watched very much and I understand there will be more explanation yet. And it is a small suspension of disbelief to make it work.


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## Warren_Paul (Jan 3, 2013)

Dave said:


> Henry was adopted at 3 weeks old. Mr. Gold arranged it. Emma told Cinderella she was pregnant at 18. She just had her 28th Birthday in the first episode.



Ok, like I said, I didn't remember that bit - although I do now - but I do know the answer, and once you know it everything makes sense. You'll have to get your thinking cap on for it though.


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## kenpat (Jan 3, 2013)

Has any one who's watching this read the Fables comics and or Simon Greens book Shadows Falls?


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## SunnyEvans (Jan 20, 2013)

It seems to me that the reason nobody noticed that Henry was aging and no one else in town was, was because their memories had been tampered with. As far as Charming waking up after a 28 yr coma making national news, it wouldn't have because the entire town is isolated. No one in, no one out, with the obvious exceptions. No reporters would have been made aware of the incident for it to get reported on. But again, seeing as how the entire town is under a curse, and it's based on fairy tales for goodness sake, I think everyone should be able to put aside the plot points that seem unbelievable because they don't fit in with what we would expect to realistically happen. I don't think it's important to wonder how they replenish the town's food supply or other details to enjoy the story. The characters are well-written, particularly the complexity of Rumpelstiltskin and Regina, and the plot is good. We always enjoy trying to figure out as soon as possible who the new characters are based on. Some are obvious right away, but some aren't.


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## Dave (Jan 20, 2013)

I've seen all 22 episodes of the first Season now, and I'm prepared to let that go now. I agree with all your comments about the complexity of the characters. I also like how they could keep you guessing about the identity of the "Writer" even leading us to believe it was someone else entirely. (My daughter has seen most of Season 2 and she says that the identity and whereabouts of the other person is still not known but that it becomes an ongoing theme.

Game of Thrones - I'm 5/10. I like it, but it isn't as fun. It's very dark. There is enough about *GoT* on this website already to answer my questions anyway. 2nd Season of that will be released on DVD soon too.


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## Warren_Paul (Jan 21, 2013)

TRYING NOT TO ADD SPOILERS, BUT BE WARNED.



Expanding on Sunny's comments, which are on the right track. It is my understanding that their memories were still being tampered with at least on an annual basis for the entire 28 years. Consider it a kind of Groundhog Day effect. Also remember that Storybrooke is a fictional town. I'm not even sure if the rest of the world even know it exists. For instance, remember Harry's adoption was handled by Mr Gold, likely involving the "writer" and was done under the table. Legally, no connection between the outside world and Storybrooke was made with the adoption, I believe.

Nobody noticed Harry was growing, because their memories were twisted by the curse to make them forget, or form another explanation in their mind for his growth. Just the same that nobody noticed they themselves hadn't grown for 28 years. Every kid except for Harry was still the same age they were 28 years ago. The only person in the town that was still growing was Harry, because he isn't suffering from the curse. What better reason to believe the stories from the book Snow gave him? He'd noticed that he grew while nobody else did, so when Snow gave him the book, it explained a lot of things to him. But of course, the curse's tampering with the victims minds ensured they didn't believe him. If the curse didn't continue to tamper with their minds, they would have noticed that something wasn't right as well.

It is my understanding that the curse relapses, and it happens every time on Emma's birthday. But when she arrived in Storybrooke, the curse didn't relapse because her presence there stopped it. So time was forced to start again the day after her birthday.

It is also important to point out there are two parts to the curse. The first is frozen time, which Emma's presence alone breaks. The second is memories, which have an effect on who even remembers the town exists. I believe they were trying to make it out that the town is self-sufficent, that the curse moulded every fairytale character into a role that would help contain the secret of the curse, but I also suspect that the curse has an effect on people coming and going from the town as well.

We can see this with Emma crashing her car in the first episode, when clearly, she isn't suffering from the curse. Somehow a part of the curse had an effect on her. It didn't wipe her memory, or stop time for her, but it stopped her from leaving the town. It wouldn't be hard to assume that outsiders who venture into Storybrooke would also come under the effects of the curse as it worked to protect its secret from being revealed. I guess in a way you can consider the curse as having a kind of intelligence. A delivery person could come, drop off their supplies, then hightail it out of Storybrooke and forget the place ever existed, or at least the curse can tamper with their minds to ensure they didn't notice the people hadn't aged in 28 years. But of course, that's only an issue if the town isn't self-reliant, and really, it's only been 28 years, so it wouldn't be impossible to be self-reliant for so short a period of time.


Of course, I'm probably way overthinking this more than what the original writers intended, but you never know...


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