# Wizards



## Eli Grey (Dec 7, 2016)

I find myself putting more and more elements into my world that I didn't really want at first. But logically, it made sense. Wizards are one of those elements. My all time favorite wizard is Gandalf. He's more dynamic than most. He wants to get things done and he doesn't mind too much how they get done. He sends the most innocent of creatures on perilous journeys. But he's a good wizard fighting on the side of light, right?


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## aThenian (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm with you on Gandalf.

Whose Merlin, though?  I like Mary Stewart's version best.

I'd also like to nominate Howl (Diana Wynne Jones - Howl's Moving Castle) as one of my all-time favourites, especially when he covers himself in green slime.  DWJ's Chrestomanci - generally to be seen stalking around in an elegant dressing gown - is another favourite.


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## nixie (Dec 7, 2016)

No I can't pick a favourite wizard. Erikson has some amazing wizards, Quick Ben and Bottle spring instantly to mind. Pug/ Milamber I have a soft spot for, Magician was my first adult fantasy. Dresden, edgy and dangerous. I can argue for all of them.


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## Theophania Elliott (Dec 7, 2016)

Snape is my favourite - but then, I have a soft spot for characters who've made mistakes but come back from them, and are willing to do whatever needs to be done. Snape is fallible, but heroic.


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## Brian G Turner (Dec 7, 2016)

Wizards as mentor figures are usually more interesting for their character than the magic they do. Gandalf is a good example - he uses very little actual magic in _Lord of the Rings_.


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## Vince W (Dec 7, 2016)

Of the wizards listed there I would have to go with Gandalf. However, there are other wizards/sorcerers I would add to this list: Thoth-Amon, Rincewind, Belgarath, and Elric to name a few.


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## TWErvin2 (Dec 7, 2016)

Gandalf: He's versatile in that he has connections, is a counselor, has a wide breadth of knowledge and experience not related to magic, he has some powerful abilities in magic but it doesn't define him.


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## TWErvin2 (Dec 7, 2016)

Vince W said:


> Of the wizards listed there I would have to go with Gandalf. However, there are other wizards/sorcerers I would add to this list: Thoth-Amon, Rincewind, Belgarath, and Elric to name a few.


 If adding, I would suggest Sethra Lavode, from Brust's Vlad Taltos series.


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## aThenian (Dec 7, 2016)

Brian G Turner said:


> Wizards as mentor figures are usually more interesting for their character than the magic they do. Gandalf is a good example - he uses very little actual magic in _Lord of the Rings_.



Yes, and the trouble is, he's so powerful that he just _can't_ be allowed to do any magic or else the plot will collapse because he'll just sort everything with his magic.  So Tolkien spends a lot of his time inventing various decoys for Gandalf - captured by Saruman, falling into the abyss etc...it's amazing, given he's such a central character, how much of the time he isn't anywhere near the action.


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## The Big Peat (Dec 7, 2016)

What makes a wizard dynamic?


I'd add that Dumbledore seems more jawing than using magic on the mentor front.


For me, after a brief pause, I think Nevyn in the Deverry series by Katherine Kerr is one of my favourite wizards. I like how he's both mentor and protagonist (and everything else about him really, but that's the most interesting thing from a storytelling point of view).


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## Alexa (Dec 7, 2016)

Although his name is not in the list above, I will give my vote to Belgarath. He was funny, *dynamic* by the tasks he had to do for Aldur and he really didn't like to do things by himself once he knew better.


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## Brian G Turner (Dec 8, 2016)

That reminds me - don't forget Raistlin! Too often, wizards are nothing more than a walking _deus ex machina_ who exist to get the main character(s) out of trouble - Raistlin, however, is different.


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## nixie (Dec 8, 2016)

Rincewind hasn't made the list either.


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## SilentRoamer (Dec 8, 2016)

Couple that could make the shortlist:

*Abercrombies Bayaz, First of the Magi.
Brooks, Allanon, Last of the Druids.*

I cast my vote for Gandalf.

With regards to Gandalf, posters above have mentioned that if Gndalf acted then it would be a Deus Ex Meachina type of intervention but we know that isn't the case. While Gandalf is very strong (one of the strongest beings left on Middle Earth) he was utterly terrified of the corrupting power of the Ring and he could not have stood against Sauron without the power of the One Ring which he ultimately feared would corrupt even him. Worth remembering that Galadriel was the most powerful being in Middle Earth (I suspect even more so that Sauron) and even she does not trust herself with the One Ring.

The true test of Power here comes not from blasts of magic or fireballs but from resistance to the corrupting power of Men.

At least that's how I see it with regards to Gandalf - he did everything he could, within the limited role he could take on Middle Earth. I never saw this as Tolkien restricting Gandalfs interaction but as Gandalf himself limiting his own powers for fears of repeating mistakes of others.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Dec 8, 2016)

I've moved this thread to the* SFF Lounge,* as typical of the kind of discussion that feels more at home here.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 11, 2016)

How about Throckmorton P Ruddygore  ? He's the top wizard in Jack Chalker's  Dancing Gods  series.


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## Mirannan (Dec 12, 2016)

I've got two candidates, one of them a multiple. First is Sparrowhawk/Ged from Earthsea. And any of the wizard children from Young Wizards are interesting; for sheer power, it would have to be Dairine. 11-year-old girl with literally universe-shaking power - eek!


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## BAYLOR (Dec 13, 2016)

Ingold Inglorion  in  Barbara Hambly's The Darwaith Trilogy.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 19, 2017)

nixie said:


> Rincewind hasn't made the list either.



He's one the greatest , most competent ,  most knowledgeable Wizards of all time. 

He's even got his own Luggage.


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## Cathbad (Jan 19, 2017)

aThenian said:


> Whose Merlin, though? I like Mary Stewart's version best.



Very likely, Merlin was modeled after an ancient druid named ~ahem~ Cathbad.


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## RX-79G (Jan 20, 2017)

I went with Gandalf, since he isn't even human, is immortal, acts as a political figure, magician, swordsman and has enough oomph to defeat a Balrog. It's quite a resume.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 20, 2017)

RX-79G said:


> I went with Gandalf, since he isn't even human, is immortal, acts as a political figure, magician, swordsman and has enough oomph to defeat a Balrog. It's quite a resume.



Absolutely agree with this.


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## BionicGriff (Feb 24, 2017)

nixie said:


> No I can't pick a favourite wizard. Erikson has some amazing wizards, Quick Ben and Bottle spring instantly to mind. Pug/ Milamber I have a soft spot for, Magician was my first adult fantasy. Dresden, edgy and dangerous. I can argue for all of them.





Brian G Turner said:


> That reminds me - don't forget Raistlin! Too often, wizards are nothing more than a walking _deus ex machina_ who exist to get the main character(s) out of trouble - Raistlin, however, is different.



Yes! Quick Ben and Raistlin!


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## farntfar (Feb 24, 2017)

Oh. I do wish you hadn't said dynamic.
I'm afraid I have to say tha Saruman was more dynamic than Gandalf.  But Gandalf was better and achieved more and better things.

Had you included Ged on the list he would have won on both counts.


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## BionicGriff (Feb 24, 2017)

One thing I like about Gandalf opposed to many of these other names being suggested, though it does apply to some of them, is the mystique surrounding him. As someone else already suggested, for a wizard, he really did use magic pretty rarely, but was powerful enough to defeat ancient, powerful enemies (balrog), while still being very human and beatable (bested by Saruman). I don't know if it's ever clearly described in Tolkien's writings (I still have not real all of the books), but its at least alluded to in context that there is a lot more going on with Gandalf then meets the eye (guardian of middle earth, escapes death after defeating the balrog, etc). Enough to kind of give you a sense that there is much more to the character not written then there is written.


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## BAYLOR (Feb 27, 2017)

Magus Rex in the Jack Lovejoy novel of the same name. . He is the most powerful and dynamic wizard living on a future Earth.


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## Danny McG (Mar 15, 2017)

BAYLOR said:


> He's one the greatest , most competent ,  most knowledgfeable Wizards of all time.
> 
> He's even got his own Luggage.



He's not a Wizard, he's a Wizzard!


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## Mirannan (Mar 15, 2017)

BionicGriff said:


> One thing I like about Gandalf opposed to many of these other names being suggested, though it does apply to some of them, is the mystique surrounding him. As someone else already suggested, for a wizard, he really did use magic pretty rarely, but was powerful enough to defeat ancient, powerful enemies (balrog), while still being very human and beatable (bested by Saruman). I don't know if it's ever clearly described in Tolkien's writings (I still have not real all of the books), but its at least alluded to in context that there is a lot more going on with Gandalf then meets the eye (guardian of middle earth, escapes death after defeating the balrog, etc). Enough to kind of give you a sense that there is much more to the character not written then there is written.



I'm not sure the part about Saruman actually holds water. Why? Because neither of them was actually human at all, despite appearances. Saruman and Gandalf were both Maiar, one step below the Valar, the Powers of Arda. It can be assumed that both of them (and the other three wizards too) were severely constrained from using their full power while in Middle Earth; this can be deduced from other instances in which powerful entities (the Eagles being the most notorious) did not help until all other hope was gone. Middle Earth was supposed to deal with its own problems; the Wizards were sent to encourage the forces of good, not as magical artillery.

Gandalf didn't use much magic because, most of the time, it wasn't appropriate or necessary. He did use it when only high magic would do; calling down a flood against the Nazgul, directly attacking the Witch-King to get Faramir out from under, and of course against the Balrog - which was of equal rank.

Most of this info comes from the Silmarillion, not LOTR.


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## Cathbad (Mar 15, 2017)

And Merlin was not a wizard - he was a Druid.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 19, 2017)

One writer who has come up with some interesting Wizards and Sorcerers  is Clark Ashton Smith .  *The Last Incantation *and *The Death of Malygris  *featured the mighty Sorcerer Malygris who resided in the city  Susran on the ancient content of Poseidonis .    Feared and hated by everyone because of his immense wealth( which he no use for) and immense arcane knowledge and power ( of which he is unequaled). On top of that he is arrogant, vindictive and contemptuous of rulers and other sorcerers. He despise people of all classes  and prefers the company beasts , familiars and supernatural entities who have no choice but to do his bidding.  He's not someone you would want to cross, at all.  I wish Smith had written more tales Malygris then he did.


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## BionicGriff (Mar 20, 2017)

Mirannan said:


> I'm not sure the part about Saruman actually holds water. Why? Because neither of them was actually human at all, despite appearances. Saruman and Gandalf were both Maiar, one step below the Valar, the Powers of Arda. It can be assumed that both of them (and the other three wizards too) were severely constrained from using their full power while in Middle Earth; this can be deduced from other instances in which powerful entities (the Eagles being the most notorious) did not help until all other hope was gone. Middle Earth was supposed to deal with its own problems; the Wizards were sent to encourage the forces of good, not as magical artillery.
> 
> Gandalf didn't use much magic because, most of the time, it wasn't appropriate or necessary. He did use it when only high magic would do; calling down a flood against the Nazgul, directly attacking the Witch-King to get Faramir out from under, and of course against the Balrog - which was of equal rank.
> 
> Most of this info comes from the Silmarillion, not LOTR.


Very cool, thanks for all the info, definitely much more familiar then myself.

I started reading the Lord of the Rings books in high school when the movies were in production, with the intent of reading them before watching. Unfortunately I fell behind, and once I watched them all the reading fell by the wayside. Certainly have to get those in my to-read list, I love Tolkien's world building.


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## EJ Heijnis (Mar 25, 2017)

I voted Gandalf, but I would have voted Quick Ben if he'd been included. Also, Goblin and One-Eye, from the Black Company.


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