# Book Prices!!!!!



## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

I just went onto Amazon to buy a couple of books, okay Zelaznys A Night in Lonesome October was almost £6, which is steep but then I tried for Southern Gods by John Hornor Jacobs and once I got back from the hospital where I was treated for shock. Sat down and decided not to read it.

£19 second hand / £25 new for a paperback?

What has happened to book prices?


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## kythe (Oct 6, 2020)

I have never spent much on books.  I have spent most of my life acquiring books from thrift stores.  The problem with this is I miss some of the most popular books because people don't donate them to thrift stores.

A few years ago I invested in a Kindle. I use it mostly for free classics, reduced price books, and Chrons authors here.

As a child I spent a lot of time in the library.  Over time I gave up on this because I tend to damage books as I fall asleep with them and end up paying for them anyway. 

A few months ago I subscribed to Audible.  I have listened to some really good books, and I like the feeling of being read to.  But now that the promotional price is up, I am canceling because the regular price of $15/month seems very expensive for an equivalent of one book a month.

I looked into the local library again and realized that they have a decent selection of audiobooks for download, and ebooks I can read on the Kindle. Now I'm back to the free sources of reading material.


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

Yeh I like Kindle cause its free, so much so I put both my books up under the free section also.

But I have stopped using it as I find I miss the feel and smell of a book, I have a big ole HP Lovecraft volume that is just a joy to read, not only cause he is my fave authour but also because it is a huge big reassuring tome 

Not a fan of audio books, like music in the background all the time, I can sing along and never need to concentrate on it.

So would you ultimately prefer the real book or happy with a short term electronic copy?


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## nixie (Oct 6, 2020)

After years resisting the ebook, I won a kindle fire at work, I do use it but it doesn't replace a physical book. Nothing can compete with the smell of books, the turning of a page. 

I find the kindle good for reading in bed.


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

Actually thinking about your comment Kythe since I have joined this forum I have wanted to read all the authors I am now chatting with on a daily basis. But I barely have time most days .... anyway the Kindle may well be the solution to read everything done by all the great people on this site. Besides that reading their work will give an interesting insight into their souls I suspect? 

Those of them that didnt sell it to become an author....


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

JJewel said:


> I just went onto Amazon to buy a couple of books, okay Zelaznys A Night in Lonesome October was almost £6, which is steep but then I tried for Southern Gods by John Hornor Jacobs and once I got back from the hospital where I was treated for shock. Sat down and decided not to read it.
> 
> £19 second hand / £25 new for a paperback?
> 
> What has happened to book prices?


I’m guessing it’s probably out of print and that’s why it’s gone up in price. Mind you most paperbacks are close to ten quid these days and hardbacks easily up to 20.
and then we get my small rant. A book takes hours to read. It costs a fair bit to print, ship, and the shops have to pay for premises, insurance, staff wages etc etc. For the price of 4 coffees we begrudge spending on a book?
we allowed the price of books to devalue. Supermarkets and amazon sell them at less than cost (I know that, because I see what the cost is) and so we now expect books to be cheap. Which means most Authors have second and third jobs (even successful ones) and struggle to make an income from it.
love books? Then put a proper value on their worth.


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

I agree, for a new book £10 is fair in my books.

And everything costs alas.

I dont write to be rich or successfull out of it tbh, I just have always enjoyed being an artist (painting / drawing / writing) so i expect I will always work as an Analyst and just enjoy the feeling of knowing others are appreciating my work hopefully.

My initial issue / grip was that the book I wanted was going to cost me £20+ for a secondhand paperback, so it isnt as if the author will even get a cut?

I thought books were tax exempt?


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## kythe (Oct 6, 2020)

How do library books factor in with authors getting royalties?


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

Amazon have a special option for all authors where they offer a bulk sell to US libraries, so you make less but you could sell a lot. They are trying to spread it out to the rest of the world.

Either way the library has to buy the book.


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

kythe said:


> How do library books factor in with authors getting royalties?


In the U.K. the author gets a small payout each time a book is borrowed. I don’t think it’s the same in America.
in terms of second hand books being worth money - that’s just market forces. If it’s out of print, it’s often valuable and booksellers will sell at the market rate.


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## kythe (Oct 6, 2020)

Jo, I appreciate your view and feel rather humbled about what it takes for authors to profit.  However, many people struggle financially, not just authors.  Books, like any other hobby, can be expensive for readers.

I did not know Amazon Kindle sells books at less than cost.  How do they make a profit, even if authors do not?  This also is not something that any buyer has control over.

Another aspect of services like Audible and Kindle Unlimited - how much of that profit goes to Amazon vs the author who actually produced the work? 

On the other hand, I subscribe to Netflix and don't complain about that cost.  I could change my perspective on book subscription services and general book costs as well.


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

Amazon kindle  only charge for the transfer fee of the data in effect that I am aware and then they take a percentage from the author for helping you sell.

As for Kindle Unlimited you get a percentage of the pot total made for the period, so if you sell a lot in theory they will pay you a lot.

And on books, do they make a loss, I get a figure of what it costs to print my book and an author can buy at cost price, they the author fixes the selling price not Amazon.


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

kythe said:


> Jo, I appreciate your view and feel rather humbled about what it takes for authors to profit.  However, many people struggle financially, not just authors.  Books, like any other hobby, can be expensive for readers.
> 
> I did not know Amazon Kindle sells books at less than cost.  How do they make a profit, even if authors do not?  This also is not something that any buyer has control over.
> 
> ...


Absolutely they can be expensive - the bigger authors tend to be even more expensive on kindle, as it happens - I mostly counteract that in the shop by not stocking most of the reduced books so people can buy them where they’re cheaper, and by maintaining some great bargain and second hand books, all of which takes loads of work. But, also, this is why libraries rock, by keeping the cost affordable and still paying back to the authors. Much better to have a great library system than sell books at 99p and leave the author and publisher nothing.
in terms of the profit thing - books are often a loss leader and used to drive footfall not profit. If you sell a book that’s 7.99 for two quid, something doesn’t add up somewhere. all I can assure you is that one of the biggest selling books this year is over 11.00 from the wholesale for me, 9.50 from the publisher and is 9.00 in Tescos and 8.00 I’m Amazon, less than half the price I need to sell it for.


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## nixie (Oct 6, 2020)

That's why when your shop is online, the majority of my books will come from you, plus I'll stop annoying you by getting you to find me books. I will still use Amazon and Waterstones occasionally.


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## JJewel (Oct 6, 2020)

Actually Jo, if you do this already ignore my words but...

Have you considered offering to buy up members old books that fit your needs and also sell books to the forum members at discount to increase trade?

I mainly buy second hand from ebay / Amazon and they are expensive but if you have them happy to pay you instead?


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

JJewel said:


> Actually Jo, if you do this already ignore my words but...
> 
> Have you considered offering to buy up members old books that fit your needs and also sell books to the forum members at discount to increase trade?
> 
> I mainly buy second hand from ebay / Amazon and they are expensive but if you have them happy to pay you instead?


We would need to get a Shopify site for the second hand books - which I am looking into but which is a mammoth task as, at last count, we had coming on for 1500 books and each would need to be lsited independently (by me). We are planning to launch with bookshop.org for new books and will include curated lists and what not - and if anyone signs up via us we get affiliate sales for that, and if they buy through our shopfront, we get a good margin for those sales.
in terms of taking bargain books I suspect the logistics of getting them to Darkest Northern Ireland might be very challenging! A very kind thought though, thank you


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## The Big Peat (Oct 6, 2020)

Jo Zebedee said:


> I’m guessing it’s probably out of print and that’s why it’s gone up in price. Mind you most paperbacks are close to ten quid these days and hardbacks easily up to 20.
> and then we get my small rant. A book takes hours to read. It costs a fair bit to print, ship, and the shops have to pay for premises, insurance, staff wages etc etc. For the price of 4 coffees we begrudge spending on a book?
> we allowed the price of books to devalue. Supermarkets and amazon sell them at less than cost (I know that, because I see what the cost is) and so we now expect books to be cheap. Which means most Authors have second and third jobs (even successful ones) and struggle to make an income from it.
> love books? Then put a proper value on their worth.



I do sometimes muse about this. I look at some of the book prices I see and raise an eyebrow, but I'll admit to being completely ignorant of the economics of publishing. I don't think anyone's really stringently made the case for where book prices need to be to make for a healthy market - and where they need to be for an author to make a living off of X books sold.

I have to admit that right now I'm a contributor to the problem. Part of that's because I know I've got enough moves ahead of me that buying more physical books is only causing me a problem - and once I'm buying kindle only, I need to be actively pro-Help This Author before it makes sense for me to pay more than 99p as there's more good stuff at that price point than I can ever read. Tbh, I could probably go an entire year without needing to buy books at all between ARCs, free indie published books and what I've already brought, and if I was more omnivorous and a more prolific/more shameless book blogger, multiple years. And there's simply no major publishing house authors active where I like their work that much.

But part of it is I like really cheap books and it's not my job to figure out sustainability (yet...). And tbh, most of my favourite media producers from where I was aware of it being a thing fitted in part time around their other jobs (mainly metal musicians) so I always kind of expected for it to be a second job unless I lucked out.

Someone needs to set out the economics though.


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> I do sometimes muse about this. I look at some of the book prices I see and raise an eyebrow, but I'll admit to being completely ignorant of the economics of publishing. I don't think anyone's really stringently made the case for where book prices need to be to make for a healthy market - and where they need to be for an author to make a living off of X books sold.
> 
> I have to admit that right now I'm a contributor to the problem. Part of that's because I know I've got enough moves ahead of me that buying more physical books is only causing me a problem - and once I'm buying kindle only, I need to be actively pro-Help This Author before it makes sense for me to pay more than 99p as there's more good stuff at that price point than I can ever read. Tbh, I could probably go an entire year without needing to buy books at all between ARCs, free indie published books and what I've already brought, and if I was more omnivorous and a more prolific/more shameless book blogger, multiple years. And there's simply no major publishing house authors active where I like their work that much.
> 
> ...


We used to have the Net Book Agreement in the UK which worked very well - a fair price was set and no outlet could sell below it. Now because publishers have to take such a cut to supply the big outlets at drastically reduced margin, the price of the book needs to be high enough to recoup that. And small publishers are stuffed because they have no outlets.

I’m not advocating anyone buys anything, at any price, or through any particular platform. Bookstores have to survive however they can and not grumble about their awful lot too much - because it’s a lovely job. I buy a lot of cut price books and have a serious library habit. Like you I have enough arcs to read for a year.

What I’m proposing is that if something drinks 10 coffees out a month (2 a week?) or has a tv or music subscription packages (often more than one - we do!) and then says books are overpriced probably need to look at how much they actually value books and the effort of producing them. This isn’t the consumers fault - it’s the markets fault for allowing them to be devalued.


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## nixie (Oct 6, 2020)

I don't have a music subscription, I do have SKY, I have my brother's log in details for Netflix and Amazon prime. I grudge every penny I spend on SKY. Books on the other hand are my one indulgence and I will rarely complain about the cost.


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## Jo Zebedee (Oct 6, 2020)

nixie said:


> I don't have a music subscription, I do have SKY, I have my brother's log in details for Netflix and Amazon prime. I grudge every penny I spend on SKY. Books on the other hand are my one indulgence and I will rarely complain about the cost.


Yeah - I think some of it is deciding what we want to spend our money on. I have Netflix and Disney for the kids who do use it. I have no interest in music so don’t use any (I do occasionally pop on some YouTube but only for artists I’ve already supported). But I do love books and am happy to buy them - and I still do, even with the shop.


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## kythe (Oct 6, 2020)

JJewel, I noticed your book information in your footer, and bought it on Kindle.  

Before I bought my Kindle, I had been reading H.P. Lovecraft and Edgar Allen Poe stories online because they are free through Gutenberg and other sources.  But I was complaining of eyestrain from focusing on an electronic screen so long.  My daughter "fixed" that problem by buying me a hardback copy of The Complete Works of Edgar Allen Poe for Christmas so I could read them comfortably.  I also now have The Complete Works of H.P. Lovecraft on my Kindle.

So I see you are a Lovecraft fan as well, and wrote a book based on the Cthulhu mythos. This is too interesting to pass up.


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## Parson (Oct 6, 2020)

kythe said:


> A few months ago I subscribed to Audible. I have listened to some really good books, and I like the feeling of being read to. But now that the promotional price is up, I am canceling because the regular price of $15/month seems very expensive for an equivalent of one book a month.



If you really love Audible books there is another way to get them at very reduced prices. Subscribe to Kindle Unlimited --- $10 a month? --- Often the "free" books --- the authors do get a cut of the fee --- will come with either a free Audible book included or at a greatly reduced price, often in the $1.99 category. I've listened to literally dozens of books this way.  --- You can have up to 10 books out at a time with the associated Audible book. The last I looked those continued to be available to me after I returned the books.


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## JJewel (Oct 7, 2020)

Unfort for me I have all of the above and books to 

But since I dont get the chance to read much I have a stack very high of unreads, was considering photographing and putting it up here to highlight my shame


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## JJewel (Oct 7, 2020)

kythe said:


> JJewel, I noticed your book information in your footer, and bought it on Kindle.
> 
> Before I bought my Kindle, I had been reading H.P. Lovecraft and Edgar Allen Poe stories online because they are free through Gutenberg and other sources.  But I was complaining of eyestrain from focusing on an electronic screen so long.  My daughter "fixed" that problem by buying me a hardback copy of The Complete Works of Edgar Allen Poe for Christmas so I could read them comfortably.  I also now have The Complete Works of H.P. Lovecraft on my Kindle.
> 
> So I see you are a Lovecraft fan as well, and wrote a book based on the Cthulhu mythos. This is too interesting to pass up.


Thank you Kythe, I have just released the second in the series and the third I am writing although the first Feral story is already running to 60 pages and unfinished which is an issue for a short story.

I do hope you like it and to say I am nervous of your re-action is an understatement, previous it has always been strangers or friends that have read my stuff 

I have both the books you mention but in hardback form as I have mentioned before that I enjoy the feel / touch / smell of a book a lot more than the kindle experience, albeit the Kindle is a much cheaper option 

I am looking forward to your feedback of my work good or bad!


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## kythe (Oct 14, 2020)

Jjewel, I just put some feedback on your profile.  

In other news, I decided to keep subscribing to Audible after all.  There are some books (like Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy) which are on Audible but not in audiobook form in my local library.  There is a point to be made that if I'm willing to pay $15/month for Netflix for a few hours entertainment, I can do the same for books.

Another aspect to audiobooks and their cost may be royalties paid to the person narrating the story as well as the author.  More goes into the creation of an audiobook than one only in written form.


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## Vladd67 (Oct 14, 2020)

kythe said:


> Jjewel, I just put some feedback on your profile.
> 
> In other news, I decided to keep subscribing to Audible after all.  There are some books (like Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy) which are on Audible but not in audiobook form in my local library.  There is a point to be made that if I'm willing to pay $15/month for Netflix for a few hours entertainment, I can do the same for books.
> 
> Another aspect to audiobooks and their cost may be royalties paid to the person narrating the story as well as the author.  More goes into the creation of an audiobook than one only in written form.


Also when you get fed up with a book just tell audible you didn't enjoy it and you can trade it in for a credit.


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## Danny McG (Oct 15, 2020)

nixie said:


> . I grudge every penny I spend on SKY


Thus speaks the Scot


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## Laura R Hepworth (Oct 15, 2020)

And, thus, the reason my personal library is not as large as I would like it to be! Buying new, while I understand the prices, is just not a sustainable option for me right now. With the exception of nonfiction books for my for jewellery/digital illustration reference library, I mostly buy second-hand books at thrift shops, yard sales, library book sales, etc. My elibrary though is huge and, nearly all, of my 1,843 ebooks I've gotten for free from the ebook deal sites that I visit daily. I still much prefer reading an actual paperback/hardcover, but there are definite advantages to ebooks. I also use it to check if I like a book enough to, someday, get a physical copy of if it's available.


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## Vertigo (May 14, 2021)

I've just been buying my next batch of 20 books for reading and I have been seeing a growing trend in the pricing. These days all my purchases are ebooks and I compare the price of buying each book from Amazon and Kobo. When I first started doing this Amazon was almost invariably cheaper but that has gradually been shifting and on this occasion out of the 20 books I bought 18 were either the same or cheaper from Kobo. Of the other two, one was not available on Kobo and the other was on a limited time cheap 99p deal on Amazon.

More and more often I am now finding Amazon are not the cheapest option for books and pretty much any other stuff from bread flour to electronics. The same goes for ebay which I now almost never buy from as everything seems so expensive.

It's interesting how these things evolve. Amazon used to be the cheapest but now so many people are tied into Amazon by buying a Kindle and being unfamiliar with converting formats it's easy for Amazon to push their prices up!


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## tinkerdan (May 19, 2021)

Though I've noticed prices going up on Amazon.
I buy a serious number of used books and usually get a fair price on them with free delivery--since delivery is usually around $4 US anything 4 plus what I'm willing to pay, is a fair price unless the ebook is less.

I've also noticed even with established authors that sometimes when searching for a fair price there are items that are no longer available or limited available that are way overpriced and often that's all they seem to have.  But, with a bit of digging and searching I have found a second author page for the author that has a reasonable price on the book I want.


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