# Iron Fist - Netflix most abhorred series by the critics



## ctg (Mar 17, 2017)

> After being declared dead 15 years earlier Danny Rand returns to New York. But his welcome is a far cry from he'd hoped.



Here we are, March 17, the date when Iron Fist became available to the large audience. Not just critics, because they've had this series in their hand for couple of weeks for them to write reviews and possibly build up hype. 

There is no hype. Just like there wasn't when Luke Cage appeared on the small screen. Back then Luke Cage shared same anonymity as Stranger Things and it took a bit of bravery to look at something that wasn't as main stream as Daredevil, Spiderman or the Avengers. Most of the people might have seen Iron Fist in comic book cover but never bothered to open a page and read it. I personally fall in that category. 

So for me, this is the image I've retained over the years in my head. 






I bet it's the same thing for many people. So it's really interesting to see how this series is going to flop, because the critics who has called this as "first Netflix big flop" is going to develop as I expect the Iron Fist to dive deep and deliver same kind of feelings as what I'd with other Netflix Marvel series. 

What do you think? Is it worth it?


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## ctg (Mar 17, 2017)

You wouldn't think a bare feet man walking down 42nd street would be a billionaire who has own company smack in the middle of the business heart of New York city. But thing is, most rich people aren't well dressed bankers, but ordinary people. The one percent, when you look at them in documentaries, they like to dress casual. In Danny Rands case, the casual has been taken to an extreme level. 

What else would you expect from a man who everyone thought to be dead? Danny never made it to private schools, yachts, universities and nine-to-five lifestyle. His parents plane went down in the mountains, and since then Danny was on his own. 

Well, almost, if you don't count in the monks and monasteries in far side of the world, which seems to be popular as there's Doctor Strange's place at Napa Valley and everything else that mysterious in Marvel Universe. 

It's just first giggles I got were from security trying to stop Mr Strand from entering his own building. They should have known better from the moment first guard was mashed on the wall that they were dealing with an extraordinary character. 

But that is it. Everything extraordinary has been filtered out from the business culture. There is no room for individuals. Not even though New York City is supposed to be full of them. So I'm kind of glad Danny didn't become a d1ck like Tony Stark. He's much closer to normal guy than the other rich geezers. 

To be honest Iron Fist goes faster into the story than Daredevil, Jessica Jones or Luke Cage. You're smack in the middle of it before the half an hour is full. If you're like me, you love this but if not, you might as well listen to those other critics, because this series isn't going to hold your hand. It expect you to know at least some of the stuff that has happened before in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. 

IF there is a problem, fear nothing, because I will voice it.


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## ctg (Mar 17, 2017)

I'm at the end of second episode and I'm all ready hooked into it. The mystery behind the Iron Fist is that he is supposed to be enemy for the Hand. Luke Cage never saw them, Jessica Jones might have got something from the connection to Murdock&Nelson. But the real thing is the hole in the middle of the hell kitchen and the Hand Daredevil has been dealing with since the season one. 

So maybe the problem critics have had is that they aren't as connected to the Marvel Universe as rest of us. Maybe they don't see the connections and they assume straight away that it's the smelly stuff. Which makes this interesting as a geek, reading geeky sites, the critics are almost always opposite to what I think when I get to see the product. 

To me, Marvel's Iron Fist is a perfect product. It connects me as a viewer to so many other things that are real in the Marvel's Universe. And the disconnection with Spiderman, X-man and Fantastic Four is really troublesome. But that's what the business deal with the Sony and Fox has got us. 

We geeks can only hope that one day Marvel and DC are as joined as the Star Wars Universe is if you count in all canon material. But in the meantime I'm glad to explore these minor characters I've never picked up from the comic shelf.

If you're first time viewer, Iron Fist isn't a bad choice because it will lead you to other Netflix stories as it explains along the way how it all happened. Even without the connections I was hooked by mental hospital scene and how well the story plays out as it's as unpredictable as the other Netflix Marvel productions.


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## ctg (Mar 17, 2017)

Oh the rattle between the boys. It's makes me chuckle. Good stuff.  Also best hiphop riffs to go in rhythm with the hits.


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## Susan Boulton (Mar 18, 2017)

The continuity is the first show was crap, the appearing and disappearing backpack for one.


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## Connavar (Mar 18, 2017)

I saw almost 11 eps straight yesterday and i think the critics are lame, looking for Marvel's first Netflix flop because Daredevil is huge name in comics, earlier film,  *Luke Cage* was the marvel black hero, * Jessica Jones* was the only female PI in Marvel, that used rape, other violence against women issues well.   Calling Iron Fist predictable is stupid because every popular hero almost is a white billionare like Batman, Iron Man.

Im big fan of *Daredevil* in comics so i know Iron Fist since he is a close friend that works in the similar street level corner of MU. I always enjoyed his Kun Lun mythology, kung fu, Bruce Lee 70s background to IF.  I read only one series of IF in mid 2000s because it was the same writer that wrote DD.  

For me i enjoyed alot of this show so far, the same thing i like about DD, human street level hero fighting huge crime group like The Hand, awesome martial arts, young hero learning to grow mentally with his abilities.    Big difference is the clear superpower, mythology of Immortal Weapon, the fire of Iron Fist, much more mystical than DD.   I think Netflix has showed everything i always wanted when i was looking for in seeing Immortal Iron Fist.

The first two eps was slow just like every Netflix marvel show made for 13 hours of bing watching like a long form storytelling.  I enjoyed seeing the lonely, desperate for connection Danny Rand before he in later eps found love, comfort in Colleen Wing and destroying The Hand like he was meant to be.  Colleen Wing is awesome by the way, the actress playing her is very good at being hardcore fighter, a teacher, also a cute girl when she and Danny got close.

I have the last two eps and i will never believe the critics dissing a show because it is NOT Daredevil.  Because there is no built in hype of bigger superhero name.


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## WaylanderToo (Mar 19, 2017)

I've just started E4 and I am enjoying it. Some interesting stuff and I'm very curious to see how it all pans it.


Cool seeing this chap as something else...


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## ctg (Mar 20, 2017)

Connavar said:


> I saw almost 11 eps straight yesterday and i think the critics are lame, looking for Marvel's first Netflix flop because Daredevil is huge name in comics, earlier film, *Luke Cage* was the marvel black hero, * Jessica Jones* was the only female PI in Marvel, that used rape, other violence against women issues well. Calling Iron Fist predictable is stupid because every popular hero almost is a white billionare like Batman, Iron Man.



Exactly and like you I watched most of the episodes on Friday and finished it on Saturday. Iron Fist wasn't predictable. It held my attention firmly to the end somewhat bitter end. But I couldn't stop myself from think American Psycho when I watched male Meachum's acting like lunatics. The only one who had a brain was Joy but even then she made very questionable choices and she showed a real darkness inside her. And in regards of the money everyone in the New York seems to be so flush with it. 

You read today reviews on the show and you see big critics blaming that nobody acted like a hero. Almost in the level that when you can, you should blame the white guy for being white, while Luke Cage was full of exposing urban black culture. Thing about that is that these critics are barking on wrong tree. There was nothing wrong with this series. 

I tried my best to look for the problems. I even avoided hyping it up after I'd done my reviews to give you readers a chance to see it. All that found was a Dark Urban Fantasy, where characters were well written, believable and one of them were again the city. 

I'm sorry that we live in a world that is so polarised that everything that used to be good are now rotten. We hate bankers. We hate the City. We hate those that make money and live in a lifestyle, where they can ignore rest of the people.

I personally don't like Mr tRump very much. But that's the life.

The life inside this series was well crafted to show what's it about to live at top of the world. To show that the billionairs aren't bad. That some of them are actually good and they try to do their best. 

Finn Jones played the role very well and what has not been written about is the Hand. It is in the screen a lot more and in times you might wish that Claire would have gone to her other clients to ask for their help. But that's why we get the Defenders this year and rest of the cast might then make small appearances in the other Marvel Netflix shows. 

This is the best they can offer, while CW keeps holding firmly on the best superhero shows in the small screen. That is the only thing I find strange. Iron Fist is a very good show and it will probably continue receiving hate from the main street critics.


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## Dave (Mar 21, 2017)

I've watched two of these and it definitely gets the  from me! On the other hand, I can probably see why the critics are so critical. I have never read comics, so maybe _Iron Fist_ has a very long history, but in my ignorance, the premise appears to be a cross between _The Champions _and _Kung Fu _TV series that I watched as a kid. And his superpower, a "good right arm" does seem a little limp  However, the story was interesting - how would you really prove who you were if you had been pronounced dead 15 years earlier and you had no relations or friends? Maybe the psychiatric hospital story went on too long for the critics too, and the special effects on the hand are a little weak. (I expect this improves when the drugs wear off.) However, the characters interest me, though maybe the Meechams as villains are too evil and the Dojo girl just too good to be true. I'm hoping that it is also explained why father faked his death for a life of boxing a punch bag and watching cctv. He must be using a sunbed because he has quite a tan without ever going outside during the day. I didn't notice a problem with the backpack.


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## Dave (Mar 22, 2017)

When I mentioned the sunbed, I hadn't yet realised he actually had one. There are a lot of tropes in this series - the thirteenth floor (not that old one, please), people coming back from the dead, fathers pretending to be dead - but I was quite surprised that they killed off one father again.

A few nits to pick - the backpack actually didn't bother me as much as - the twelve year-old sister helping her seventeen year-old brother with his Calculus homework (she just doesn't appear to be that bright) - an airplane flight from the USA to Guangzhou went via the Himalayas (maybe they just wanted the view.) Okay, from New York, I guess they might have gone via the Atlantic and Europe. On the whole, the NYPD are depicted as fairly useless - all kinds of mayhem down on the docks, three bodies in a pond; another found in, and various disturbances in parks, riots inside psychiatric hospitals, but not a single cop ever seen.


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## ctg (Mar 22, 2017)

Dave said:


> On the whole, the NYPD are depicted as fairly useless - all kinds of mayhem down on the docks, three bodies in a pond; another found in, and various disturbances in parks, riots inside psychiatric hospitals, but not a single cop ever seen.



Against a superhero and evil ninjas what they can do? Thing is they were never there when they were needed most. When I walk around London it's same thing. They are never there. Not everywhere. But sometimes I see them sitting inside minibusses wearing riot gear and when something has happened, (as often does in our pedestrian square), they are there very quickly. I bet it's the same thing in New York City. To me their absence didn't bother me. 

Madama Gao however, for most of the episodes I thought she was a dragon disguised in human form. And to my knowledge that small Chinese woman isn't it the comics.


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## ctg (Mar 22, 2017)

> I love Iron Fist, so of course I watched the new Netflix series _Iron Fist_. I’ll withhold comment on whether it’s any good because I’m a physicist, not a TV critic. But I will say the show provides some fun opportunities to look at physics with questions like how much energy he packs into his superpowered punch. One in particular involves


 Iron Fist Can Totally Break His Fall With a Pole. Physics Says So



> According to NASA data on the human tolerance of acceleration, this should be survivable. Of course, this calculation is just for the average stopping force and the average stopping acceleration. The real acceleration wouldn’t be quite so constant and probably would peak at some higher value. Still, Iron Fist is a superhero and can do things you can’t, so I’m going to say surviving this fall is plausible if you’re Iron Fist. Anyone who isn’t Iron Fist probably shouldn’t try it.


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## ctg (Mar 24, 2017)

> Seeing as _*Iron Fist *_has now been out in the wild (on Netflix) for almost a week, we reckon is finally okay to talk about Davos. If you don’t want to know about Davos, look away now.
> 
> To mark the series’ release, we spoke to Davos actor Sacha Dhawan, whose role in the film was kept super secret until he finally appeared out of nowhere in episode nine, ‘_*The Mistress Of All Agonies*_‘, about playing Iron Fist’s friend-turned-foe and trying to keep it under wraps…
> 
> ...


 WIN AWESOME POWER RANGERS GOODIES – IN CINEMAS MARCH 24



> *Has it been difficult keeping your role in the show a secret? *
> 
> It has, actually, mainly because I’m so proud to be part of it. In terms of the whole casting element, I don’t think I’ve seen Marvel do something like this, and I really wanted to share that with people and celebrate it, and I’ve not been able to. Even from the moment I first bought the comics in London to do research, the people behind the counter, obviously comic book fans, were wondering why I was buying the whole collection and why I was asking so many questions! I just wanted to say, ‘I’m Davos! I’m going to be Davos!’ Even doing Wing Chun classes before I started filming and doing private lessons, they were intrigued as to why I wanted to do it and why I was so particular about learning certain fighting styles. Now, hopefully they’re going to see it and think, oh, that’s the guy! It makes sense! And my friends had also been wondering why I’d been in New York all these months!


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## Dave (Mar 25, 2017)

Dave said:


> ...maybe the Meechams as villains are too evil and the Dojo girl just too good to be true...


Well, they do get less two-dimensional and less black and white as the series progresses. In fact, their motivations are quite complex and difficult to define. For a superhero TV series, it is quite refreshing that they are all so conflicted. I have felt that the series has run out of steam a little though. If Danny wants to stay in New York AND to remain _The Iron Fist_ then his only excuse should be that instead of standing guard at the door against _The Hand_, he wants to take the fight directly to _The Hand_ in the place where he knows they are active, in New York. He seems too reluctant to actually say this, and is conflicted over returning, or being with his family, despite how horrid they are. He also seems conflicted over Colleen. 

It is interesting that they don't get the script: Iron Fist star Jessica Henwick on Asian stereotypes, fight scenes, and why Colleen Wing should team up with Misty Knight


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## ctg (Mar 25, 2017)

Dave said:


> he wants to take the fight directly to _The Hand_ in the place where he knows they are active, in New York.



Well that's about the defender and the hole in the hell's kitchen. I did find it very interesting that DD's Stick and Shirte didn't come into the play as that organisation is directly against The Hand. Maybe they'll do something about in the Defender's, which is told be only 8 episodes long.


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## ZombieWife (Apr 4, 2017)

I am watching the heck out of it so far.... (On episode 5).

I am trying to appreciate critics' perspectives, but I don't agree with them. All around, it's fun. I like the story. I am far more into this than I was Daredevil season 2. There is an innocence and fluidity to Danny which I think Finn Jones is really doing well with. He comes across as a guy who spent the last 15 years in a "magical" realm and wasn't socialized into a hard, business-like world as Joy and Ward were.

I love Danny's lawyer. =)

Can't wait to finish it! I also look forward to seeing Danny with the other Defenders. He will bring a nice balance, imho. Matt, Luke, and Jessica are big personalities. Danny is subtle. I like that about him.


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## E.Maree (Apr 12, 2017)

I really tried to enjoy this, but gave up after the second episode. It bored the living daylights out of me.


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## Stable (Apr 13, 2017)

For a show with a kung fu hero I expected better fight scenes. I'm watching Marco Polo instead (love the Mongols) and was amazed to find that it has much more interesting kung fu fight scenes despite that not really being the point of the show. Daredevil had fantastic choreography too, so I'm not sure what happen to the Iron Fist...

It's not awful, I enjoyed the first 4 or 5 episodes, but I think they haven't lived up to past form.


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## ZombieWife (Apr 14, 2017)

See, I have heard that complaint a lot. I guess I'm missing why the fight scenes are so poorly done? Is it missing amazing super fastness? Or such? Danny comes across as making it look effortless and I guess I never saw an issue with that? 

But, keep in mind, I am no fighting scene expert here!


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## ctg (Apr 14, 2017)

ZombieWife said:


> I guess I'm missing why the fight scenes are so poorly done?



I have watched a lot of Honk Kong movies and to me the Iron Fist was on bar with many of their productions. But who am I to argue with you guys?


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## Stable (Apr 15, 2017)

I can't really pin it down, but when I compare to daredevil for eg. they just aren't that exciting... there's exceptions (I thought Danny vs the axe-wielding triad mobsters in the hallway was pretty tight), but in general the hits don't seem as solid and the choreography is less interesting. It's still better than Captain Kirk battling Klingons. One of my friends has complained that for the ultimate kung fu guy he certainly gets beaten up a lot, which I can kind of see.

But hey, if you think otherwise more power to you!


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## ctg (Apr 15, 2017)

Stable said:


> One of my friends has complained that for the ultimate kung fu guy he certainly gets beaten up a lot, which I can kind of see.



If he wouldn't receive any wounds or battle marks then it would be unbelievable. And no master can take down everyone. DD couldn't save Elektra for all his skills and abilities. Stick is still one man and head of Sitra, but even he wouldn't directly confront the Hand. So, would it have been more believable if he'd been able to deflect all strikes, kicks and slashes without getting nicked?


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## E.Maree (Apr 25, 2017)

ZombieWife said:


> See, I have heard that complaint a lot. I guess I'm missing why the fight scenes are so poorly done? Is it missing amazing super fastness? Or such? Danny comes across as making it look effortless and I guess I never saw an issue with that?
> 
> But, keep in mind, I am no fighting scene expert here!



A solid criticism that I agreed with was that the scenes had too many cuts, creating a choppy viewing experience. Daredevil was well known for minimal cuts, particularly in the iconic hallway fight scene. But Iron Fist has scenes like this one, with 56 cuts in 38 seconds.

Do most viewers count the cuts? Not a chance.
Do most viewers still notice that a scene is hard to follow and oddly uncomfortable to watch? Hell yes.

I didn't get as far as this scene, but in the first few episodes, I noticed that the fight scenes lacked *weight*. The way they shot the punches meant their impact didn't feel real or impactful -- it was showy and dance-y, without the fierceness and force of a martial arts movie.


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## Cli-Fi (Apr 26, 2017)

ctg said:


> I'm at the end of second episode and I'm all ready hooked into it. The mystery behind the Iron Fist is that he is supposed to be enemy for the Hand. Luke Cage never saw them, Jessica Jones might have got something from the connection to Murdock&Nelson. But the real thing is the hole in the middle of the hell kitchen and the Hand Daredevil has been dealing with since the season one.
> 
> If you're first time viewer, Iron Fist isn't a bad choice because it will lead you to other Netflix stories as it explains along the way how it all happened. Even without the connections I was hooked by mental hospital scene and how well the story plays out as it's as unpredictable as the other Netflix Marvel productions.




I am slowly watching this when I have absolutely nothing left to watch. Just finished the second episode and I have to agree with you. I think it's odd that so far in the Marvel verse Danny's situation hasn't happened yet. Our hero gets lost. Check. or goes on a quest Check and comes back claiming to be the same guy, Check and he automatically gets taken away into a mental health facility. Only has happened to Danny. This didn't happen to either Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, or even Dr. Strange. They tried to do it to Thor, although that proved difficult.

Speaking of Dr. Strange, I see similarities between the two. Danny's love of meditation and his training with the monks. His lower ability to transcend to another dimension. He's like a mini-Dr. Strange. Since I don't read comics I don't know if they ever met in canon.

Another element of surprise for me was the riff-raf between Harold Meachum and his assistant. I think something will definitely come of that and every time he yells at the poor kid I half expect him to rape him. Are we to assume Harold and possibly Ward too, are gay?


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## Cli-Fi (Jun 18, 2017)

Just watched up to Episode five. About to start six. Yup I'm taking my time with this one, as it's not as bingeable as DareDevil or Luke Cage. I think I finished Luke Cage all in one sitting. Iron Fist is probably the closest Marvel Netflix Show to the movies. It has a good blend of comedy and less serious parts like the movies do. It's a bit more grounded too. It's a pretty good standalone kung fu show if you take away the Marvel aspect and the hipstery look. It's a good soap opera too. I enjoy the family fighting. I've seen much worse shows and I could find this show having a home on AMC (Into the Badlands) or any of the broadcast channels too ABC etc... It's not quite Netflix and more traditional Hollywood.

In Defenders I'm guessing the main reason Danny Rand is there is so that he can bank roll the Heroes for Hire. Because honestly, his powers are pretty weak compared to the other Defenders and all the Avengers. I wonder how much he is worth?? I can't find any literature on the topic. He says he's a Billionaire now. He's not Tony Stark rich, but he's got some influence there.


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## Cli-Fi (Jul 9, 2017)

I finished Iron Fist a month or two ago, and had some time to think about the show and where it fits in. I think Netflix did something really sneaky here with Danny Rand. Finn Jones was recently quoted saying that you aren't supposed to like Danny and it's TRUE!!!! No one likes Iron Fist and maybe it was designed that way. Maybe it was designed to be frustrating and unlikable. No one is going around saying they want to be Iron Fist like we did with Spiderman or Iron Man. Now you really aren't supposed to want to be Daredevil, Luke Cage, or Jessica Jones either, but those all handle their power relatively well and you can place yourself in their shoes if you had the same background.

Danny is completely different from all that. He is one of the most complex characters in the entire MCU. He's a reluctant billionaire, reluctant monk, reluctant hero. It isn't until the end of the series when he really starts to understand what being the Iron Fist means, even though there are still questions about its origins and the conspiracy theory that Colleen mentioned. That only makes things more intriguing because it means that unlike the others, his world isn't so black and white. Danny Rand might be one of the most grounded heroes in all the MCU. Despite his billionaire status, he has lived both lifestyles and is a generally all around conflicted person.

Going back to the similarities Iron Fist and Dr. Strange. I'd have to admit that Iron Fist is a lot better than that movie was. TBH. It's going to be interesting seeing Danny Rand butt heads with Matt Murdock. I don't see much they would agree with politically speaking.


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## Cli-Fi (Jul 22, 2017)

@ctg I know at least one person on this forum who is going to be happy with this news: 
‘Iron Fist’ Renewed for Season 2 at Netflix


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## The Bluestocking (Jul 22, 2017)

Cli-Fi said:


> @ctg I know at least one person on this forum who is going to be happy with this news:
> ‘Iron Fist’ Renewed for Season 2 at Netflix



Maybe Finn Jones should spend 6 months in martial arts training and body sculpting this time in order to at least get the physicality and fighting abilities of the character.

His fight scenes in season 1 were... let's just say that as an ethnic Chinese woman who grew up on Wuxia movies, I was embarrassed for him.


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## Cli-Fi (Jul 22, 2017)

The Bluestocking said:


> Maybe Finn Jones should spend 6 months in martial arts training and body sculpting this time in order to at least get the physicality and fighting abilities of the character.
> 
> His fight scenes in season 1 were... let's just say that as an ethnic Chinese woman who grew up on Wuxia movies, I was embarrassed for him.



A lot of people were hate watching this like I was. That's the only thing that makes sense on Netflix's part to renew it. I found some stuff that I liked about the series, that always happens to me when I go into a show or a movie and I don't expect anything from it. I heard about how bad Iron Fist was, but I found things I liked. Agree Finn needs to bulk up. He's got plenty of time too, and if he looks bigger in season 2 they can really play with that and have fun with it. Show him training etc... 

But then, maybe his form of martial arts is all about Chi and precision rather than brute force, which is why they have Luke Cage on the team.


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## The Bluestocking (Jul 22, 2017)

Cli-Fi said:


> But then, maybe his form of martial arts is all about Chi and precision rather than brute force, which is why they have Luke Cage on the team.



Dude, no. Chinese martial arts (on which Iron Fist's style is most certainly based) is not just about being precise. It's about being FAST, brutal, and precise. Chi is supposed to be there to help provide stamina and - in the tradition of wuxia movies - extra power/strength.

Finn's fight scenes as Iron Fist? OMG! Some of them scenes were so slow and you could see him trying to remember his moves LOL!!! No, just no.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 12, 2017)

So far I'm only three episodes into Iron Fist, and there is so much WTF going on that it's making my eyes bleed. I'm with @The Bluestocking on the fight scenes. If you're going to sell me a series with a martial arts main character, he better be _good at martial arts_, you know? Danny doesn't even have the temperament of a martial artist, losing his rag every other scene then behaving like he's actually been the reasonable one. I also _super_ did not appreciate his border/consent issues. If Luke Cage had been harassing a small Asian woman to get what he wanted, refusing to take no for an answer, people would be up in arms, but because Danny is a handsome white dude it's okay for him to use the "nice guy who just refuses to give up" harassment. And by god it went _on_. It wasn't like:
"Can I stay here?"
"No."
"Pls."
"Fine."

No, it went on _uncomfortably long_ until he basically browbeat the only person who had helped him into doing what he wanted, and even then he was a total dick come the next morning by suddenly playing his music really loud _despite always using an ipod before then_.

He doesn't behave like a man trained as a martial artist for fifteen years. He behaves like an entitled little sh*tbag.

I'm not impressed with their handling of Unnamed Martial Art Sensei Colleen Wing, who uses some form of "I have a sword" style. She too does not behave like a martial artist. Any form of kenjutsu should be teaching respect and calm, but her idea of a "safe space" for her kids is to let them fart around and joke, whereas anyone who has actually taught martial arts to disadvantaged and troubled teens will tell you that the respectful behaviour it instils is _what helps those teens_. Also absolutely no sensei is going to organise "randomly attack me in the street where cops might mistake this for a real fight and shoot us" training sessions, and then belittle her students for doing it poorly instead of teaching them what they did wrong.

They both seem pretty keen on interrupting each other's kata/forms, too. Like, dude, no. Who would do that? "Hey I see you're working through your morning practice, how about I just stop that for no good reason?"

It's mind-bogglingly bad, especially when even the most cursory research could have fixed all this and _still_ given them a strong plot, great characters, and complex motivations. There's literally no need whatsoever for the abysmal lack of understanding of any kind of actual martial arts.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 12, 2017)

Stable said:


> One of my friends has complained that for the ultimate kung fu guy he certainly gets beaten up a lot, which I can kind of see.



In defence of what so far to me seems to be quite a bad show, at least it's explained within the first 1 or 2 episodes that Danny derives power from being hit. So when he's just getting started, he is going to take a lot of punches, because he gets better in a fight the more punishment he takes.

Feels like a flimsy excuse for the old "gets beaten up a lot then turns it around and wins" trope.


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## ctg (Sep 12, 2017)

Amelia Faulkner said:


> So far I'm only three episodes into Iron Fist, and there is so much WTF going on that it's making my eyes bleed.



ROFL. I expected quite a lot after Luke Cage came out. 



Amelia Faulkner said:


> Feels like a flimsy excuse for the old "gets beaten up a lot then turns it around and wins" trope.



They used this same thing with DD and it worked. They repeated it with Luke Cage and the Punisher. The hero must suffer before they claim the title. When Iron Fist came out, he already claimed to be hero while to our eyes, Dany hadn't even proved himself. Most of the audience didn't even know there's a such thing as Iron Fist as he hasn't been introduced in the major comic books. They cannot take the 'immortal' Iron Fist as someone equivalent to the superman even though that's what he really is. He isn't even in the same level with womanizing, arrogant Iron Man. If he'd been a humble Ip Man then maybe we wouldn't see him in such bad light. 

If I'm totally frank I would have loved seeing them making a series around Doctor Strange even though he has nothing to do with the Hand. That pyjama party doesn't even get registered by the Supreme Mage even though the whole show is going around the corner.


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## Mouse (Sep 12, 2017)

I watched this, but it ended up more background noise than me actually paying attention. Didn't care much for Danny Rand. The only interesting characters were Ward, Colleen, and Lewis Tan's drunken martial artist character who I can't remember the name of and was only in one ep. 

I did get very excited at hearing Hoon Lee though but that's because I'm a nerd.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 12, 2017)

ctg said:


> If I'm totally frank I would have loved seeing them making a series around Doctor Strange even though he has nothing to do with the Hand. That pyjama party doesn't even get registered by the Supreme Mage even though the whole show is going around the corner.



I would kill for a Doctor Strange series


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## The Bluestocking (Sep 12, 2017)

Amelia Faulkner said:


> I also _super_ did not appreciate his border/consent issues. If Luke Cage had been harassing a small Asian woman to get what he wanted, refusing to take no for an answer, people would be up in arms, but because Danny is a handsome white dude it's okay for him to use the "nice guy who just refuses to give up" harassment. And by god it went _on_. It wasn't like:
> "Can I stay here?"
> "No."
> "Pls."
> "Fine."



^^ This. So much this.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 18, 2017)

Okay so I finished Iron Fist. By far and away my favourite character has to be Ward. I still don't like Danny and his variable boundaries. "The hand killed my parents" seems to be his catchphrase, which is a bit out of kilter for the rest of the Defenders' catchphrases:

Matt: "Objection!"
Jessica: "Screw you!"
Luke: "Sweet Christmas!"
Danny: "THE HAND KILLED MY PARENTS!"


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## ctg (Sep 18, 2017)

Amelia Faulkner said:


> "The hand killed my parents" seems to be his catchphrase, which is a bit out of kilter for the rest of the Defenders' catchphrases



I don't think the Hand had direct responsibility on killing Danny's parents. But I strongly believe it was Madame Gao as a dragon, who tore that plane roof away. We might never know the whole truth as I hope this particular storyline is put in the bed and the producers think hard what they want to see in the next season.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 18, 2017)

ctg said:


> I don't think the Hand had direct responsibility on killing Danny's parents.



In effect they did, as they had already decided the Rands needed to die, but it was Harold's insistence he do it that led to such a flashy and un-hand-like death. He procured poison from Madame Gao and poisoned the Rands' pilots. This is all basically just blurted out around episode 12/13. It's why the corpses of the pilots showed the black veins like those Colleen displays when she succumbs to the poisoned blade which cut her.

Had Harold not gone the poison route, the hand were going to kill the Rands anyway.


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## ctg (Sep 18, 2017)

Amelia Faulkner said:


> This is all basically just blurted out around episode 12/13. It's why the corpses of the pilots showed the black veins like those Colleen displays when she succumbs to the poisoned blade which cut her.



I might have missed all that for some reason. LOL. But that doesn't explain why the hole was ripped on the plane and his mum sucked away. Poisoned pilots would mean the same thing as what happened to that unfortunate incident at the Italy, when the pilot decided to commit a suicide and slam on the mountainside. And with poisoned pilots you still have a chance for a miracle.


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## Amelia Faulkner (Sep 18, 2017)

ctg said:


> But that doesn't explain why the hole was ripped on the plane and his mum sucked away.



Alas when you have a show that is riddled with lousy research and poor writing, it's too easy for me to put this one down to lousy research and poor writing.

I finished watching it, and the lousy research just kept piling up. Weirdly, Claire's dialogue when she was applying a credit card to a sucking chest wound was correct, but her actions weren't. Stuffing gauze between plastic and wound, not turning the patient onto his side, it was _so close_ and yet so far. I'm far too able to believe that the writers really think tops of aircraft can pop out and passengers will be sucked into the sky.


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## Narkalui (Mar 28, 2018)

Did anyone else catch the Karate Kid reference?


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## Stable (Mar 29, 2018)

Narkalui said:


> Did anyone else catch the Karate Kid reference?


No! Where?

I'm actually rewatching this with Mrs Stable and the fight scenes look a fair bit better on the bigger screen than they did on my tablet. Also the general enjoyment is improved since I realised that the Danny Rand character is *supposed *to be an idiot.


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## Narkalui (Mar 29, 2018)

When Danny goes to see his parents memorial, it says "Wendell, Father" on his father's stone, "Heather, Mother" on his mother's, and his own stone says "Daniel, Son."  I refuse to believe this is an accident.


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## ctg (Aug 17, 2018)

A billionaire behaving badly, again. Nothing new to our current geopolitical climate, but I love the new mask, while the old school owl mask scares me. It looks so abnormal.


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## Lumens (Aug 17, 2018)

I liked the first season. This trailer made my eyes glaze over though. Not really much info apart from what we already know. Looks like it's worth watching, hopefully. Too much emphasis on fight scenes will make me fast forward, which often leads to turning it off altogether.


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## Anthoney (Sep 7, 2018)

After seeing them do a better job with Danny on Luke Cage I was really hoping that would continue in the second season.  They start off a little better and the actor has improved his fight scenes.  A few episodes in and Danny begins to go back to his petulant ways.  Worse than that the plot is one I'm sick of.  I'm so tired of the "let's grind the hero down all season" plotline.  I don't mind when a hero loses a fight.  An episode doesn't go his way.  These season long spirals suck.  The last season of Flash and 2 seasons of Arrow have already made me sick.  I don't need any more from Netflix.  I am not one of those people who believe entertainment has to be tragic or that happen endings are for suckers.  It's OK if the hero has an uphill battle as long as it's not down hill over and over.  I've also had my fill of "let's take the heroes power away".

I'm 6 episodes into season 2.  Unlike the bland and mostly forgettable season 1 this season is actually making me unhappy.  I find this to be a step down.


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## ctg (Sep 7, 2018)

Anthoney said:


> I'm 6 episodes into season 2. Unlike the bland and mostly forgettable season 1 this season is actually making me unhappy. I find this to be a step down.



Maybe you should have played some of the Spider-Man instead because that adventure is awesome. I didn't even realise that it was Iron Fist 2 launch date until much, much later. Then again I've been so busy this and last week that I haven't really been focusing on what is coming in the small screen. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't liked this season. 

I'm just in the first five minutes and like it was with the Luke Cage, I'm going to take my time instead of binging it fully, unless it pulls me in firmly. I've seen the reviewers lambasting this one again, and I've avoided mostly reading their pieces so that I can watch and analyse it with a clear mind.


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## ctg (Sep 7, 2018)

Oh man, Typhoid Mary in the first episode. I know that most of the people don't get the reference as Mary has been a small time villain, mostly associated with Spider-Man and DareDevil. And for Matt Murdoc she spelled doom and really, really hard time as she comes out as a 'black widow' type. In the comics she used her weakness to lure Mr Murdock to a love trap, before she started ruining his life under Fisk's orders. 

I've yet to see if she's powered in the series or will she live the life of innocent reporter before her transformation to a villain. This certainly piqued my interest.


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## ctg (Sep 8, 2018)

Well, I'm at the beginning of episode three and yes, the season 2 has drawn me in and it's not just because of the Typhoon Mary's appearance. I appreciate that they are giving her a proper introduction before they unleash all of the madness that is tied to package that was created by legendary John Romita to be a tool for misery. To me personally I find Danny's story as a humble one, as he's so prepared to give up all that massive fortune just be a person in a huge city.

You don't ever really get how huge New York really is from the small screen or the movies, if you haven't ever visited the place. To me the new Spider-Man game opened up the geography of the Manhattan Island, where most of these series are located into even if it's not as dirty and somewhat rotten as you can see in the series. Speaking of which, the first season left it pretty clear that the era of Hand the rule was over when Mademe Gao disappeared and left the New York criminal underworld without a steady ruler.

I suspect she is still a force in the second series as she is tied to the Iron Fist in more ways than one. It would fit her character to wage the war from the shadows and use the triads to cause trouble. I even suspect that she might have influenced Davos in his hatred. Sure, he lost his home, his family and his city when Dany didn't return to K'un-Lu but out of the two, he's the one who's weaker and corruptible.

The reason why I'm saying these things is because to me Dany's story is much better than Tony Stark's. Dany doesn't want riches. He is not interested in power. All he wants is peace, like a proper guardian, so that he wouldn't have to active his Iron Fist. Thing that is mostly missing is his inner monologue, which is much easier to translate into the narrative than doing it at front of the cameras.

I believe that Iron Fist would be much better as a story if it was in the written form, because it would allow the audience to get much more out from the brooding looks, pouting, and sighs that has been present constantly in the first three episode.

Iron Fist isn't a nice story and it certainly hasn't been written in the way that would yield much of positivity as all Netflix Marvel stories has been made to be dancing in the edge of total darkness. When I watch them I can sense the chaos churning as it winds things tighter.

The one thing that is bothering me is the timeline, because they showed Luke Cage in the summer time, while the Iron Fist is set in the heart of the winter. New York is cold in this season, not autumn like or matching the season as the Luke Cage did. I wonder what is the reason for that because it certainly cannot be the fact that Thanatos did his trick in the Avenger movie.

Maybe it means that the effect is reversed in the second movie somehow.


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## ctg (Sep 8, 2018)

Well, the episode 4 answers the timeline question as when Misty Knight shows up with her cybernetic arm it becomes clear that Iron Fist 2 is happening in the winter after Luke Cage took over Harlem's Paradise. But her appearance also answers the question that has been bothering me, are they all locked in their individual zones in the Manhattan? 

The answer is most definitely no, but while that is true, the MCU has a major problem because there cannot be all these superhero living in one place and still be so unknown to each other that there is no connection. That there are enough of people in the criminal underworld for them to beat. 

It's strange when you think about the powered people versus the normal people, and if a norm superhero keeps beating the criminals day in, day out, there shouldn't be much left, because the criminals has a limit. Beat enough of them and they will leave. Between all the superheroes and supervillains, if I was a criminal I would certainly move away rather than stay in the area as there must be much easier cities to make a living. 

Misty Knight claims NYPD has resources to handle the situation in the ground as it is, but it is so strange on why anyone would want to do anything unlawful if you're chances are ending in the prison hospital with multiple broken bones and damaged organs. 

Nevertheless, maybe that's why they chose Typhoid Mary as this season major villain as she comes from outside the city, having background in the US military. In the comic books, her 'condition' was caused by Matt Murdock, before she got powered, but in the Iron Hand, I get a sense that Mary is already gone through all the hell already and the military background fits better on her messed, split-personality. Of which the 'Bloody Mary' is the worst as she's completely sadistic, borderline psychotic. 

It is kind of boring that Davos only has one personality trait, and that is dark psychotic. His placement against Typhoid Mary is illogical, as they could have allowed the K'un Lun storyline brew in the background while Mary does her job for Joy.

Instead of slowly creeping darkness, this season is blanketed with it from the beginning. The only ray of hope is Ward. And that is strange.


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## ctg (Sep 11, 2018)

I'm a bit surprised, early reviews all lambasted IF2 and later reviews glorify it. 



> We expressed guarded hope for the second season of Marvel's _Iron Fist_ when the trailer dropped last month. And we're happy to report that the series, which returned to Netflix last Friday, mostly lives up to the trailer's promise. The writing is better, the fight scenes are better, and the characters and relationships are more fully developed. Thematically, it's all about power: who deserves to wield it, what it means to lose it, and, ultimately, learning how to share it.


 Iron Fist’s second Netflix season mostly lives up to its promising trailer

Io9's article was the best. I see if I can find it. But in the meantime I still haven't finished the new season.


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## Anthoney (Sep 11, 2018)

I thought the pacing was much better than season 1 or Defenders.  Finn did a good job with the fight scenes.  Again better than season 1.  So overall the mechanics of the series were good.

The story on the other hand had problems.  It almost unseat Jessica Jones season 2 as my most hated season of marvel on Netflix.  No power for 60% of the season?!  We never get to see Mary's baddest personality.  They take the smart and decent sister and turn her into a wobbly, meandering half villain.  Her great plan for revenge has no real reason or purpose.  

Rather than use the comic storyline where Davos gets a type of Iron Fist power the do their own stupid story where the power of the dragon can be stolen with tattoos.  This was only marginally better than Danny giving his power up.  I don't mind Coleen getting some power.  She been great in the action sequence.  She's better liked the Danny.  Even the epilogue which I think was supposed to take some of the sting from Danny's stupidity was more weird and confusing than exciting.

Here where they all land with me.
JJ S1, DD S1, DD S2, Pun S1, Luke S1, Def S1, IF S1, Luke S2,  IF S2, JJ S2.


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## ctg (Sep 11, 2018)

The Crane Sisters you'll meet in the episode 5 and 6, the Marvel wiki suggests they are connected to the Crane Mother, who is the ruler of the mythical K'un-Zin, one of the Heavenly cities. They are certainly mysterious and outright annoying for not being willing to operated with Finn. 

I don't what Davos offered to them to steal Dani's Chi. But in theory, if someone steals your Chi, you're powerless and therefore, close to death ... if you aren't already in there. What I don't understand is how Davos' Chi is coloured red, and Dani's Yellow. I suppose it has something to do with the Aura, as Davos is constantly angry ... to something.

I think that K'un-Lun elders knew that Davos was going to lose the fight for the right to challenge the mythical dragon. We don't know if Madame Gao is a similar type, but I suspect that she has the ability to transform to a human and back again on her will. But that doesn't explain the power transfer, unless somehow Dani killed the dragon and stole the power, which in return Davos wants because he believes in the traditions.

After all the Iron Fist is full of traditions. But what I don't really understand is that why Davos wanted to stay in the New York city, cleaning its criminal underworld instead of taking the first flight out from the city and going back to the K'un-Lun or the other mythical cities to offer his services as a guardian. 

Maybe he was all ready full of pile, when he stepped into that ring and got tied to Danny. To be honest, he has the least amount of progression in the story, even though he becomes the biggest thing for stealing the Iron Fist. Ward, in the other hand, transforms literally in the screen from being a complete dick to someone who you can tolerate, maybe even reflect as one your friends. 

After all we all have those people in our lives; ones that we love and hate at the same time. For Davos, there is no hope. The producers make you hate his every move, and they make you believe that every word he says is a lie.


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## ctg (Sep 12, 2018)

Spectacular finish. The Iron Fist 2 really changed around towards the end and became truly exciting something we haven't seen so far. Not in the filmed Marvel Universe. Not before. I'm pretty certain of it and I'm glad they self corrected the series by adding the self monology and giving Danny a path forward. So, maybe Io9 was right and this is the best Iron Fist we have seen. It certainly feels that way and I'm excited for the future. Well done Netflix and the Iron Fist team. Well done.


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## ctg (Sep 12, 2018)

> The way Netflix’s Marvel shows gradually introduce certain B and C-level supporting characters from the comic books into their universes has always been one of the most interesting things about them. _Iron Fist_’s second season continues in this tradition, but the specific characters introduced here could portend major things on the horizon for Marvel’s street-level heroes.


 https://io9.gizmodo.com/iron-fist-season-2-introduces-a-cavalcade-of-new-charac-1828971026


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## Brian G Turner (Oct 14, 2018)

And... that's the end of _Iron Fist_ - Netflix will not be renewing it for a 3rd season: Marvel’s ‘Iron Fist’ Won’t Return for Season 3 on Netflix


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## WaylanderToo (Oct 14, 2018)

but it may find another home....


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## Narkalui (Oct 14, 2018)

Nah, Netflix is THE other home


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## ctg (Oct 15, 2018)

I think it is a smart move from Disney and Netflix to not shell money into the bottomless pit that is the superhero genre. They gain nothing from trying to swim upstream. But all in all it might not be the last time we see Mr Rand or his companions.


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## The Bluestocking (Oct 15, 2018)

Two words:

Good riddance.


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