# Pirates, not in the Caribbean



## sknox (Apr 29, 2018)

I have a blog post over at Mythic Scribes on European pirates, for them as what is interested. 
History for Fantasy Writers: Pirates


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## The Judge (Apr 29, 2018)

I remember the Sea Beggars from my History A-level a long, long while ago!  As a further grey area which might be useful in fantasy, letters of marque for privateers could give pirates an element of respectability while allowing their state backers plausible deniability for their actions.

I tend to avoid pirate books, so the only one I can bring to mind with a lengthy piratical presence in it is *Red Seas Under Red Skies* by Scott Lynch, where one's entire sympathies are meant to be with the pirates who apparently are wonderful people who never rob anyone who can't afford it and never kill anyone who doesn't deserve it.  I'm not sure I'd recommend the novel, though, as I actually found that section of the book a bit tedious.


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## sknox (Apr 30, 2018)

Tim Powers, _On Stranger Tides_ does a nice job. It's Caribbean, though. I really want to write a story where I can work in river pirates. No luck so far.


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## Dave (Apr 30, 2018)

I wrote a final assignment on Thames River Pirates for my local history course a few years ago. I wasn't sure that much of what is taken as gospel truth about them wasn't just made up by Patrick Colquhoun (the magistrate who formed the Thames Police force, the first police force in the world, and the writer of numerous treatise on policing.) There was most certainly a romanticism of river pirates, as there similarly was for highwaymen. They were really just a combination of organised crime gangs and thugs, and very poor people around the docks stealing to make a living. I examined court records and found very few gang leaders or copemen (the people who fenced the goods) were prosecuted. Instead it was dockworkers taking very small amounts, who were then usually transported. This was despite the ship's mates and wharfingers being involved in far more serious crimes. It all stopped with the building of the large wet docks in the Isle of Dogs, where ships could be unloaded behind high thick walls and locked gates. It is doubtful that the police force had much effect on the stealing from ships moored out in the Pool of London. I looked at the quantities stolen as mentioned in Old Bailey court cases over time, but these were only a fraction of the total amounts lost. The losses were extraordinary when you compare them to the shrinkage from shops and warehouses that would be acceptable today. However, dockworkers expected that their meagre wages would be topped up with an element of taking from cargoes and this was the accepted practise.


sknox said:


> I really want to write a story where I can work in river pirates. No luck so far.


if you mean no luck in finding such a story then I searched at the time and couldn't find much fiction at all:
_Poor Jack_ by Frederick Maryatt (1840) BTW @Boneman is a descendent of Maryatt and he is our Chrons resident expert.
_The Hole in the Wall_ by Arthur Morrison (1902) Concerns a copeman, but you get the general feel for the East End and the criminality. 

There is plenty of non-fiction written about the Thames River pirates but much of it is based upon what Coloquhoun wrote. Too many references to copy here. You also have Henry Mayhew writing character pieces at the time, and Charles Dickens' work, which has some faction in the fiction.

If anyone really interested in this subject then visits to the Thames Police Museum in Wapping Police station (by appointment only) and the Docklands Museum in West India Quays are highly recommended.


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## Tirellan (Apr 30, 2018)

Let us not forget the de Mariscos and others of Lundy  Marisco family of Lundy Island


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## sknox (Apr 30, 2018)

Good references, guys, thanks. I was thinking more like pirates along the Vistula or the Elbe, or even the Rhine. The Dniester or the Don goes too far east for my comfort zone, but they definitely had river pirates.


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## svalbard (May 1, 2018)

The Warwolf and The Walrus by Hugh Cook features pirates(the sea vintage) quite heavily. And to good effect.


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## Dave (Jun 28, 2019)

Dave said:


> I wrote a final assignment on Thames River Pirates for my local history course a few years ago....



Just a heads up that I'll be giving the talk at the Bromley Borough Local History Society meeting next Tuesday 7.30pm 2nd July 2019 https://www.bblhs.org.uk/meetings  All welcome. £1 entry for non-members at the door. It is largely but loosely based upon my Oxford Advanced Diploma in Local History final assignment.


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