# ACTORS mismatched to roles



## Jeffbert (Dec 26, 2011)

I can best explain what I mean with an example:

Kirk Douglas was a prominent, perhaps, even a great actor. Yet, he was an inappropriate choice for the role of Ulysses/Odysseus because that character was described as having massively broad shoulders and being rather muscular, if not huge. True, I enjoyed the film, but--

Likewise Professor Challenger has a similar physique, but Claude Rains is even more mismatched than Douglas, as he is rather small in stature. Challenger was a bear of a man, as I recall. I loved the film, but could not suppress an occasional snicker.


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## J-Sun (Dec 26, 2011)

Do you mean specific books-to-movies miscasts based on book descriptions (or the impression left by the book) or more general miscasting? Because, while I like a lot of Johnny Depp flicks, he was a terrible Willy Wonka. He didn't visually fit and the way he played it made it worse. But I can't think of too many more off-hand - negative (media) stuff tends to fade from my mind while the positive sticks.

For general stuff, there's any movie Gene Hackman has ever been in unless he was a grumpy manager of a McDonald's in some movie. He's apparently regarded as not just a good, but great, actor by many but he just always hits me wrong in everything.

Then there are retro-miscasts. _Airplane_ is one of the funniest movies in the universe and it would have been even funnier if I'd have been more familiar with most of the actors in it before it. (For instance, I did know Barbara Billingsley in her signature role, which makes her scene just mind-blowing.) As is, I can't watch stuff like _Forbidden Planet_ (with Leslie Nielsen) without laughing. I just can't see them right in their classic parts any more.

-- Oh, how could I forget: Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist in _The World Is Not Enough_. She was way more off than anyone I've mentioned so far.


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## Jeffbert (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes, I mean characters as described by the novels in which they originate. 

*Airplane* was actually a direct parody of a 1950s film with Sterling Hayden (GENERAL RIPPER OF *DR. STRANGELOVE*) as they guy who talks down the amateur pilot flying the airliner. TCM showed both *Airplane* and *Zero Hour!* in that order some time ago, though I watched them min chronological order. Nearly everything in *Airplane* is a direct parody of something in *Zero Hour!*  If I had watched them in the order shown, I would have been laughing at *Zero Hour!*, though it is a serious film.

Yes, I think I know what you mean, an actor who is known for work in a certain genre seems out of place in another genre, but I am only thinking about physical characteristics, though I suppose broadening the topic may be entertaining. When you see an actor you associate with say, tough-guy roles, cast as a milquetoast, it just seems odd, even funny.


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## steve12553 (Dec 27, 2011)

Stephen King's *Carrie*. The main character was pimply and overweight and generally a mess as opposed to the fairly attractive  and slim Sissy Spacek. Many times the actor's ability overcomes the fact that they don't quite look the part.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 27, 2011)

The classic has to be Morgan Freeman in Shawshank; in the book he's called Red because he's a red head with an Irish background.  Yet, now, who else could be Red?


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## FireDragon-16 (Dec 27, 2011)

Robert Pattinson as Edward in the *Twilight *movies. I honestly don't think he's that attractive in general and he really doesn't fit the picture of Edward in my mind.


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## Metryq (Dec 27, 2011)

Bridget Moynahan as Dr. Susan Calvin in _I, Robot_. When I first saw the trailer, I remember thinking, "Since when was Susan Calvin a smokin' hottie?" As noted elsewhere on this forum, the movie _I, Robot_ is much closer to Roger MacBride Allen's _Caliban_ than Asimov's anthology. And while the book spans many decades, Calvin's face was described as "thin" and "plain" (as a teen in "Robbie"), and the reporter in the intro wonders if she ever smiles. This does not mean that Calvin is ugly, just that her demeanor is cool, perhaps a little severe. "Clinical." Essentially, the Dr. Calvin in the movie did not talk like the character in the short stories. In the movie, Calvin got ruffled on several occasions, while in the book she was always very cool and collected—except briefly in "Liar!" when one robot rubs her the wrong way. (Hell hath no fury like a robo-psychologist scorned.) While the book Calvin was logical and precise, the movie Calvin was Yet Another Spock Wannabe™, spewing jaw-breaking polysyllables.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 27, 2011)

Keanu Reeves in Much ado about nothing; Shakespearian Ted Theodore Logan.  Funny, but oh so wrong.


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## Connavar (Dec 27, 2011)

Keanu Reeves again but this time in Constantine.  Sure John Constantine series Hellblazer isnt a book but a comic series. Constantine is chain smoking blond brit with an bad boy attitude.  Reeves played Constantine like he was a soft tragic hero. 

He was so mismatched.  All the attitude, awesomeness of the character gone to become another generic Reeves hero....


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## Cam Winstanley (Dec 27, 2011)

Kudos to whoever did the casting for the Watchmen movie. Regardless of whether you love it or hate it, you've got to admit that all the main characters completely looked the part.


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## Metryq (Dec 27, 2011)

springs1971 said:


> Keanu Reeves in Much ado about nothing; Shakespearian Ted Theodore Logan.  Funny, but oh so wrong.



Hear! Hear! Or +1 as they say these days. Shoot the hostage.


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## Ray Pullar (Dec 27, 2011)

Sly Stallone as Judge Dredd. Too short, too thick.
Kyle MacLachlan as Paul Atreides in David Lynch's Dune (1984). Too old (in the book Paul is 15 years old at the start).
Casper van Dien as Johnny Rico in Starship Troopers. Looks nothing like a Tagalog speaking Filipino (the character's ethnicity in the Heinlein novel). Also too old to be in high school at the start of the story.
Keanu Reeves as Johnny in Johnny Mnemonic. Too Keanu Reeves.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 27, 2011)

R we saying Keanu Reeves in anything that wasn't written for him?   He's cropping up a lot.

Nic Cage in Captain Corelli's; truly awful casting, truly awful acting.


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## Abernovo (Dec 27, 2011)

springs1971 said:


> Nic Cage in Captain Corelli's; truly awful casting, truly awful acting.



Still gives me shivers. Great book, terrible film - and Penelope Cruz as Pelagia?


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## Ray Pullar (Dec 27, 2011)

I didn't criticize Mr Reeves for his portrayal of Bob Arctor in A Scanner Darkly. I'd be more likely to find fault with Robert Downey's playing of Barris who in the novel comes across as a less nervous & silly man and rather more sinister and menacing.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 27, 2011)

Abernovo said:


> Still gives me shivers. Great book, terrible film - and Penelope Cruz as Pelagia?


 
Flattered by Cage, that's about the best you can say.


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## Jeffbert (Dec 28, 2011)

I did not expect so many responses!  I will respond specifically to this one, & apologize about the others getting no response. 


springs1971 said:


> The classic has to be Morgan Freeman in Shawshank; in the book he's called Red because he's a red head with an Irish background.  Yet, now, who else could be Red?


As far as race goes, I do not think it is so important here, but I never read this novel. Unless Red was of a very different physique than Freeman, I think it is not all that important. However, I can think of a few exceptions:


Samuel L. Jackson as Nick (Sgt.) Fury in *Capt. America*
James Mason as Capt. Nemo in *20,000 Leagues--*

For #1, Fury, though not depicted in this film, was the leader of *THE HOWLING COMMANDOS* during WWII, it was not at all likely that they would have a black man commanding a mostly white unit.  I really do not like the history revisionist stuff that has been going on lately. But even disregarding race, Fury was a very muscular man, unlike Jackson. I really did like the film, & was not really bothered by this until just now as I thought about this post. O.K., even more unlikely that James West could be black, but WWW was pure fantasy, anyway.  Why be accurate about *DUM DUM DUGAN* but switch races with Fury? 

#2 Nemo was an Indian (of India), & though this may have had no bearing on the Disney version, I was reminded of it when watching *NADIA OF BLUE WATER* anime, & *LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN*. Of course, back then, there was simply no way they would have made a film starring an Asian, but they did not even try to make Mason appear Asian as they did with Karloff, Lorre, & the guy who played Charlie Chan.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 28, 2011)

Jeffbert said:


> I did not expect so many responses!  I will respond specifically to this one, & apologize about the others getting no response.
> 
> As far as race goes, I do not think it is so important here, but I never read this novel. Unless Red was of a very different physique than Freeman, I think it is not all that important. However, I can think of a few exceptionsQUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Perpetual Man (Dec 28, 2011)

Jeffbert said:


> For #1, Fury, though not depicted in this film, was the leader of *THE HOWLING COMMANDOS* during WWII, it was not at all likely that they would have a black man commanding a mostly white unit.  I really do not like the history revisionist stuff that has been going on lately. But even disregarding race, Fury was a very muscular man, unlike Jackson. I really did like the film, & was not really bothered by this until just now as I thought about this post. O.K., even more unlikely that James West could be black, but WWW was pure fantasy, anyway.  Why be accurate about *DUM DUM DUGAN* but switch races with Fury?



When Marvel recreated some of it's titles for the modern age a few years ago (The Ultimate titles), one of the strongest was The Ultimates, written by Mark Millar art by Brian Hitch. This was in all but the name, The Avengers. 

This had a much more cinematic feel to it, stunning visuals with massive, breathtaking story arcs; and one of the things that was said from the word go, was that Fury was going to be a driving force behind it.

Both Millar and Hitch spoke about one thing concerning the character and that was how Samuel L Jackson was who they both thought of immediately and wrote/drew the character with that in mind.

When the movie franchise(s) started, almost from the word go there was a fan movement to have Jackson play the character if he were to appear.

And I guess that is why Jackson is playing Fury in the movies!







Fury as he appeared in The Ultimates a loooong time before he appeared on the big screen


And talking of mismatched actors in films and Nick Fury, David Hasslehoff anyone?


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## Boneman (Dec 28, 2011)

Ray Pullar said:


> Kyle MacLachlan as Paul Atreides in David Lynch's Dune (1984). Too old (in the book Paul is 15 years old at the start).


 

Oh my god, yes! Ruined the whole film for me. I could just about take Sting as Feyd Rautha Harkonnen, but Kyle was awful... Sian Phillips was excellent, on the other hand. And sorry to say, but Sir Patrick Stewart as Gurney Halleck was way too sophisticated (and bald...)


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 28, 2011)

Oops I quite liked Paul, but I was, shall we say, of a certain age when it came out  Now, I'd have to agree.

Oh and Perp, the Hoff, made me giggle.


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## Boneman (Dec 28, 2011)

Mickey Rourke in *Angel Heart:* the book (Falling Angel) was brilliant, could have been written by Riever 33, and as the PI Harry Angel, Mickey gives a bumbling performance - think Marlon Brando shambleisms - and in the book, he's a clear thinker and a smart man...


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## Connavar (Dec 28, 2011)

Robert Downey Jr is the worst Holmes in film, tv history.  Even if the new films was classical faithful take RDJ is so wrong for the role.  He plays him like he is Bond or Iron Man.

Its impossible to believe RDJ Holmes is a man of the Victorian age.  Brilliant mind no no no.


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## Moonbat (Dec 28, 2011)

*Johnny Depp* playing *Ichabod Crane* in *Sleepy hollow*. I've not read the book but apparantly Crane was supposed to be ghastly in appearance, too such an extent that Depp wanted to don prosthetics to play the part, but they wouldn't let him.

The film *I'm not here* depicting the life of *Bob Dylan *has *Cate Blanchett* playing him in his Like a rolling stone phase, and although she really looked the part, she was the wrong sex. What is odd about that film is the range of people playing him, from *Heath Ledger* to *Richard Gere*, but it doesn't really detract from the film as it isn't meant to be a straight biopic.

Surely there must be plenty of Biopic actors that haven't been physically accurate versions of the people they are playing. 

Domino - Kiera Knightly playing Domino Harvey 
Beyond the Sea - Kevin Spacey playing Bobby Darin


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## Jeffbert (Dec 28, 2011)

Perpetual Man said:


> When Marvel recreated some of it's titles for the modern age a few years ago (The Ultimate titles), one of the strongest was The Ultimates, written by Mark Millar art by Brian Hitch. This was in all but the name, The Avengers.
> 
> This had a much more cinematic feel to it, stunning visuals with massive, breathtaking story arcs; and one of the things that was said from the word go, was that Fury was going to be a driving force behind it.
> 
> ...


I was once a comic collector, but realized I was addicted to it & stopped reading comic books altogether.  If Marvel has forgotten about the HOWLERS, & made a new version of Fury, then o.k., my bad. 

Jackson has quite a wide range of roles, from badass Fury to voicing the ass-kisser in AFROSAMURAI. 

Of comics, I now read only manga. 
 

too few smilies from which to choose.


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

Ian Fleming had originally wanted Roger Moore to play Bond - he didn't like Connery's portrayal at all, at least to begin with.  Which is understandable, given that Fleming gave many of his own characteristics to that character and presumably felt that Moore had a better chance of pulling them off.

However, I'm pretty sure he'd have been vastly disappointed had he lived to see what happened when Moore finally did get his hands on the role.  I suspect he'd have been a great deal happier with Brosnan.


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## Metryq (Dec 28, 2011)

Interference said:


> I suspect he'd have been a great deal happier with Brosnan.



Talk about a mismatch! I know there are a lot of fans who liked "Remington Steele" in the role, but I thought he was the absolute worst. 

Connery's Bond was largely the creation of director Terence Young.


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

You haven't seen OHMSS yet, then


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## J-Sun (Dec 28, 2011)

And speaking of physical mismatches, everyone was pissed at Craig because he had light hair but he was fine in _Casino Royale_.

As far as Brosnan, it's hard for me to say - I disliked all the flicks he was in except _Tomorrow Never Dies_ but I don't think any Bond could have saved those. At least he wasn't another Lazenby.

-- It took me awhile at wikipedia trying to look up the name of the Brosnan flick I liked so I missed Interference's post so my Lazenby reference looks redundant but you can never say Lazenby/OHMSS sucked too many times.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 28, 2011)

another Brosnan to make you smile: Mamma Mia, has anyone heard his singing?


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## The Spurring Platty (Dec 28, 2011)

springs1971 said:


> another Brosnan to make you smile: Mamma Mia, has anyone heard his singing?


 
I loves me some Abba, but that made me cringe.

I'll see your Brosnan in Mama Mia and raise you one Roger Moore in Boat Trip.


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

J-Sun said:


> .... but you can never say Lazenby/OHMSS sucked too many times.



Slightly amusing poiint about that film is that George Baker's voice played Bond for half of it, as well   Makes one wonder if the producers didn't end up thinking it would be easier to dub a good actor on a walking tree than to try and get Lazenby to act.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 28, 2011)

Interference said:


> Slightly amusing poiint about that film is that George Baker's voice played Bond for half of it, as well  Makes one wonder if the producers didn't end up thinking it would be easier to dub a good actor on a walking tree than to try and get Lazenby to act.


 
Lazenbury acted?  In which scene?


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

The scene with Diana Rigg, right at the end, when he cries -- Ms Rigg had been eating onions, though 

The annoying thing is that OHMSS is a key story in the Bond mythos and to have it made so, as is generally accepted, deplorably means it's ripe for re-making, I think.

Oh, and it had the _best_ title song of the entire series (_We Have All The Time In The World_).


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 28, 2011)

Duranie here; view to a kill was my fav (when I was 16, I've moved on since)


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

One thing I am very glad about is that though John Barry stopped doing them, and has since died, hiring David Arnold was the perfect alternative.  There's respect for the genre in his soundtracks where a lesser composer might have been tempted to lampoon it.

Apparently Barry and Duran (or possibly Duran, not sure which of them it was ) did a lot of fighting, as Le Bon later said, "over black notes"


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## Ray Pullar (Dec 28, 2011)

I've just thought of another: Rutger Hauer  as Roy Baty in *Blade Runner*. A fine performance by an actor physically miscast according to the character description present in the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. It says of Roy when he first appears in the story that he was: 





> "...larger, with intelligent eyes but flat, Mongolian features which gave him a brutal look." (end of Chapter 13)


Hauer: Larger, yes, intelligent eyes, yes, brutal, yes, Mongolian features, er...

Another problem comes with the casting of Pris (Stratton) and Rachael Rosen. In the novel both of these women androids are the same model and therefore physically identical in appearance (although they wear their hair differently). The movie has two completely dissimilar actresses play the pair. It actually forms an important part of the story as well since it causes Deckard discomfort to retire an andy who resembles one for whom he has developed feelings:



> 'The last goddamn Nexus-6 type,' Rachael said, enunciating with effort, 'is the same type as I am. She stared down at the bedspread, found a thread, and began rolling it into a pellet. 'Didn't you notice the description? It's of me, too. She may wear her hair differently and dress differently - she may even have bought a wig. But when you see her you'll know what I mean.' She laughed sardonically. 'It's a good thing the association admitted I'm an andy; otherwise you'd probably have gone mad when you caught sight of Pris Stratton. Or thought she was me.' (Chapter 16)


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## Perpetual Man (Dec 28, 2011)

Jeffbert said:


> I was once a comic collector, but realized I was addicted to it & stopped reading comic books altogether.  If Marvel has forgotten about the HOWLERS, & made a new version of Fury, then o.k., my bad.
> 
> Jackson has quite a wide range of roles, from badass Fury to voicing the ass-kisser in AFROSAMURAI.
> 
> ...



There are two universes running concurrently so we can have either the classic or ultimate Fury. Obviously the film makers liked the idea of the Samuel L Jackson Fury - he fit the role!

I hope it was not to hard when you gave up comics - I've just done the same thing for similar reasons, and am not missing them. Yet.


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## Metryq (Dec 28, 2011)

Interference said:


> You haven't seen OHMSS yet, then



Not to be confused with Ohm's Law or OMS engines!

Actually, I have seen OHMSS, again just recently, too. While the script was terribly dry and Lazenby's acting hardly stellar, Brosnan is still worse. He delivers half his lines as though he were sitting on a broom handle. (I dunno, maybe that's his "tough guy" voice.) Maybe we should give the much-maligned Keanu a shot at playing Bond?

There are many actors who only "play themselves." This doesn't stop them from being popular in Hollywood and doing lots of films, but in each role, they are exactly the same. A really good actor delivers a character so well that one might not recognize him, even when he is _not_ wearing extensive makeup and appliances. Such metamorphs are never mis-matched because they can _act_.


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## Abernovo (Dec 28, 2011)

Metryq said:


> There are many actors who only "play themselves." This doesn't stop them from being popular in Hollywood and doing lots of films, but in each role, they are exactly the same.



Oh dear, you just gave me an image of John Wayne as a Roman centurion in _The Greatest Story Ever Told_. I try not to mock Biblical films as the content is held _literally_ sacred by many people, but that was a truly awful film and Mr Wayne's brief performance?

I have no words.


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## Moonbat (Dec 28, 2011)

Not quite on topic, but Brosnan in *live wire* has one of the campest bad guys ever



> Mr O'Neil!


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## Interference (Dec 28, 2011)

If anyone would like to see the true meaning of Acting, get a copy of Raise the Titanic, fast forward to the scene where the Alec Guinness is reminiscing about the sinking and watch his eyes.  I've never seen a better film performance before or since.

Now throw away the rest of the film


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## alchemist (Dec 28, 2011)

Abernovo said:


> ...but that was a truly awful film and Mr Wayne's brief performance?...



Surely you didn't mean to refer to the apocryphal story of Mr Wayne in the film?

JW: "Truly he was the son of God."
Director: "It needs more awe, Mr Wayne."
JW: "Aw, truly he was the son of God."


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## Abernovo (Dec 29, 2011)

Yes, alchemist, I had heard that one. I've also been told a joke regarding that movie by a vicar, which I'm not going to repeat for fear of offending others (and the fear of being struck by random lightning).

Perhaps an embarrassing admission, but I do actually like a couple of Wayne's other films. No great actor, but in his niche, he could be effective. At least he went out on a decent movie, _The Shootist_.


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## Interference (Dec 29, 2011)

_The Shootist_, _The Searchers_ and _True Grit_ can dare to be called "great films".  Others were entertaining enough, _Cheyenne Autumn_ being the cream of those, and Wayne was big enough to fill the landscapes he rode through.

Of the few "modern day" films he made, there aren't many you wouldn't be tempted to call dire.  Talk about mis-casting


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## Ray Pullar (Dec 29, 2011)

For physical miscasting and John Wayne how about his role as Genghis Khan in *The Conqueror* (1956)? Hollywood has a problem with Mongolians.


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## Interference (Dec 29, 2011)

Yeah, I think the Hollywood Mongols are confused by the spelling 

Just been watching again, and struck once more by the horrendous miscasting of John Thaw as Morse - I know, I know, millions disagree with me (including Colin Dexter), but they're all wrong


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## Starbeast (Dec 29, 2011)

David Carradine was chosen over Bruce Lee to play the chinese hero in the tv series _Kung Fu._ Plus, it was Bruce Lee who came up with idea for the show and Warner Bros movie company stole it. This fact still bothers me today.


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## Metryq (Dec 29, 2011)

Ray Pullar said:


> For physical miscasting and John Wayne how about his role as Genghis Khan in *The Conqueror* (1956)? Hollywood has a problem with Mongolians.



There probably weren't all that many Asian actors in Hollywood in 1956. Likewise, I have read that one impetus for anime was the lack of _non-Japanese_ faces in Japanese live-action film. Why should that matter, you ask. It matters for the same reason John Wayne was mentioned above. Thus, we have lots of very western-looking characters in Japanese anime, even though they often have Japanese names. (Extraterrestrials and other exotic creatures are also a snap with animation.)

Now that CGI and MOCAP are highly polished arts, no character need be "physically miscast" anymore. Try pulling off that scrawny-to-astounding Capt. America stunt with a live actor. "Okay, station break for 6 months while we pump this guy up."


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## Ray Pullar (Dec 29, 2011)

Metryq said:


> There probably weren't all that many Asian actors in Hollywood in 1956.



"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."

A few appear in the 1958 Wayne movie *The Barbarian and the Geisha*. Fortunately, Duke doesn't play Japanese in that one.


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## Metryq (Dec 29, 2011)

Ray Pullar said:


> A few appear in the 1958 Wayne movie *The Barbarian and the Geisha*.



But did any of them have the "star power" to lead a film? I'm not suggesting that no Asian performers had the acting talent, but a competition for viewers (TV) was brewing in the 1950s. Stay home and watch westerns, or go to the cinema and watch them there?


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## Azzagorn (Dec 29, 2011)

I can't buy Adrain Brody as the leader in Predators! Also, Daniel craig as lord azereal in the golden compass! However, the casting of Nicole Kidman worked for me.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 29, 2011)

See I liked Daniel in that, and hated him as Bond.  Far too macho, where was the intrigue?


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 29, 2011)

Just a quick thought; Tom cruise and Nicole Kidman, far and away.  Rarely have I rolled with laughter at an Irish accent, we're pretty tolerant and used to sounding half-Scottish, but I laughed until I nearly passed out.  Actually, still a classic in this house, just for the comedic value.


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## Interference (Dec 29, 2011)

Ah, yes, twas on the very same day that RTE showed that film that the Celtic Tiger packed 'is shillelagh and started lookin' fer another land to roam and, finding none more worthy, led us into the current state of chassis that the world must now endure.  Curse ye, Cruise!  Curse ye, Kidman!


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## Azzagorn (Dec 29, 2011)

Also Russel Crowe as Robin Hood his nottinghamshire accent was actually a mix of scottidh and irish!


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 29, 2011)

Azzagorn said:


> Also Russel Crowe as Robin Hood his nottinghamshire accent was actually a mix of scottidh and irish!


 

With a fair dose of Aussie: a classic of its genre. 

My mum mutters about all actors who can't do accents, except Sean Connery who she loves in everything. Scottish English Norman King? (robin hood), Scottish James Bond, Scottish prohibition detecctive there is no end to the man's diverse accents.

Oh, nearly forgot; Scottish immortal Spanish prince.


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## Connavar (Dec 29, 2011)

springs1971 said:


> See I liked Daniel in that, and hated him as Bond. * Far too macho,* where was the intrigue?



Heh Bond too macho ??  Is that even possible 

I bet you have never read or heard of the Fleming Bond.  Craig is my fav Bond because Casino Royale is near copy of the book and the real book Bond.  He is macho hardcore killer,smart and sometimes ladies man.  Not the pretty boy player Brosnan and co played.

Craig is the only actor who were not miscasted as Bond !  Connery and Moore are great campy Bond but they are miles from Fleming Bond.


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## Wybren (Dec 29, 2011)

Tom Cruise as Lestat in "An Interview with a Vampire" Lestat was supposed to be young, tall, seductive and slightly evil. I didn't feel that Cruise portrayed any of these qualities. It would have been better had it gone to Julian Sands as had been Rice's original pick, however Cruise had the bigger name so was given the part. I think too in that film Pitt also was the wrong choice for Louis.


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## J-Sun (Dec 29, 2011)

springs1971 said:


> My mum mutters about all actors who can't do accents, except Sean Connery who she loves in everything. Scottish English Norman King? (robin hood), Scottish James Bond, Scottish prohibition detecctive there is no end to the man's diverse accents.
> 
> Oh, nearly forgot; Scottish immortal Spanish prince.



Don't forget Scottish Russian sub commander.


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## alchemist (Dec 29, 2011)

What about a plank of wood as Anakin Skywalker in Revenge of the Sith? Surely using an actor would have been better?


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## Jeffbert (Dec 30, 2011)

BUT JUST HOW MUCH influence on the character does an actor really have? Of course, there is no single answer, but I cannot imagine the director being helpless to toss out any actor who just insists on his own vision for the character. 

I thought that just about all the BOND flicks have something positive about them, though I may dislike certain aspects. I have never read any of Fleming's novels, so I cannot comment much further.


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## Abernovo (Dec 30, 2011)

Jeffbert said:


> BUT JUST HOW MUCH influence on the character does an actor really have? Of course, there is no single answer, but I cannot imagine the director being helpless to toss out any actor who just insists on his own vision for the character.
> 
> I thought that just about all the BOND flicks have something positive about them, though I may dislike certain aspects. I have never read any of Fleming's novels, so I cannot comment much further.



Some film-makers would say that it is a collaboration between director and actor to bring out the character and, if it is from a book, then it is almost always open to some interpretation. As you read, you build up your own picture of characters and scenes.

As to the Bond films and books, I read the stories when I was a kid (perhaps explains some things, methinks) Never had a real problem with Moore as Bond, at least in the early movies, but I also never really thought of them, or him, as being much to do with Fleming's originals. Connery is always going to be associated with Bond and he did make it his own. But, as far as the spirit of the character in the novels (cold anger, ruthlessly violent when necessary (he starts off as a military intelligence courier in _Casino Royale_)), I think Daniel Craig actually get close to the mark. He's more the hard-nosed professional than the joking playboy.

Oh, and Springs, I could be wrong, but I thought Mr Connery was actually an Egyptian-born metallurgist to King Juan-Carlos of Spain (who spent his childhood years in Edinburgh, of course).


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 30, 2011)

Abernovo said:


> Oh, and Springs, I could be wrong, but I thought Mr Connery was actually an Egyptian-born metallurgist to King Juan-Carlos of Spain (who spent his childhood years in Edinburgh, of course).


 
So I was told last night; approx 5 secs after the edit window closed.   TY


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## Interference (Dec 30, 2011)

It's so obvious from the name


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## JamestheLast (Jan 16, 2012)

Moonbat said:


> *Johnny Depp* playing *Ichabod Crane* in *Sleepy hollow*. I've not read the book but apparantly Crane was supposed to be ghastly in appearance, too such an extent that Depp wanted to don prosthetics to play the part, but they wouldn't let him.




It had so little to do with the source material that I didnt really care about that.Crane was a school teacher not a police detective. The Headless Horseman wasnt explicitly stated to be a real ghost in the book.

They had one really jarring blunder in the movie that distracted me from everything else--early on he says: we are almost at the turn of the millennium.

In 1799?

For bad casting I would say the  guys who played Dracula
in Van Helsing and Blade 3.
There have been underwhelming Draculas before but without a doubt in my mind, those two are the worst ever.

The first comes across as a gay waiter and the Blade one was like a street pimp. Most undignified moment was him running from Blade along a fire escape.
The real Dracula would be spinning in his grave if he didnt have a stake through his heart.


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## Jeffbert (Jan 17, 2012)

> Abernovo	Re: ACTORS mismatched to roles
> Some film-makers would say that it is a collaboration between director and actor to bring out the character and, if it is from a book, then it is almost always open to some interpretation. As you read, you build up your own picture of characters and scenes.



Still, they have people credited with CASTING. I have seen roles that seemed made for certain actors. I was VERY surprised to learn that PETER SELLERS was originally intended to also play MAJOR KONG, a role that just seemed made for Slim Pickens. 

There are certain actors whom I envision as characters; usually after having seen them in that role, or a similar one, but not always. But, for the life of me, I cannot at this time give any examples.  Though if I were daydreaming about being a Wild West gunfighter, I would use Clint Eastwood as the model. I suppose this indicates a lack of imagination, but as far as I am concerned, Eastwood's characters redefined the gun fighter, taking it away from John Wayne & Gary Cooper. 

When I was a kid, I could not come up with good names for my GI Joes (back then, they had no proper names). When I 1st made an email account, the only available names were names few would want, unless one added some numeric characters. So, I used a rather self-effacing-- no, that is not the word I want-- a self-insulting name; but as it was *my* email name, I was insulting nobody but myself.  

Anyway, as I said earlier, some actors just exemplify certain roles. I remember my dad was a John Wayne fan, & was irritated at Eastwood's portrayals, probably because his character used pistols rather than talking, while the older Westerns were usually dialogue-driven. But since Sergio Leonne's westerns, action drove the plots. Anyway, eventually my dad became an Eastwood fan, & seemingly forgot about Wayne. There was an actor whose very name literally described his character. He was a balding little man who always portrayed the timid bank teller whose only concern was saving his own skin. I think his name was MEEK. Then there was RALPH MEEKER, despite his name, he was a tough guy. So, anyway, when they take a novel and make a screenplay from it, I suppose they visualize these character as certain actors, & try to get them for the roles. But though a certain actor meets the physical description, if he has too many of his own ideas for the character that conflict with the casting guys or the director, he has to go.

As I understand it, George Raft's dislike of having his characters killed, allowed H. Bogart to rise from obscurity to stardom. The director could not convince him that the Hayes Code simply necessitated the death of the gangsters.


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## Cayal (Jan 17, 2012)

JamestheLast said:


> They had one really jarring blunder in the movie that distracted me from everything else--early on he says: we are almost at the turn of the millennium.
> 
> In 1799?



Closer than 1798


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## Boneman (Jan 17, 2012)

Well, they haven't made it yet, but already this piece of miscasting is going to bite the makers of the film in the ass: the first of Lee Childs' films starrring his laconic anti-hero Jack Reacher - 6ft 5ins, 220-250lbs, 50ins chest, dirty blonde hair, icy blue eyes - will be made soon. And yup, you might have guessed it, the role has gone to Tom Cruise - 5ft 7ins(even imdb describe one of his trademarks as 'short stature') Chest 40, 147-167lbs, brown hair (I'm sure you remember what his hair looked like in 'Interview with the Vampire'), brown eyes (couldn't look threatening in a million years). I guess he's going to be standing on a lot of boxes during filming...


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## Jeffbert (Jan 17, 2012)

I never heard of the character you mention, though it does make my point that using a prominent actor is FAR  more important than using one who resembles the character.


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## Boneman (Jan 17, 2012)

Absolutely... they just want to sell tickets. Mark my words - it will be a turkey!! Probably come out at Thanksgiving as well...


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## paranoid marvin (Jan 17, 2012)

Nicholas Cage in any comedy role - the man just isn't funny (well not in the way he intends to be anyway).


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## reiver33 (Feb 22, 2015)

Boneman said:


> Mickey Rourke in *Angel Heart:* the book (Falling Angel) was brilliant, could have been written by Riever 33, and as the PI Harry Angel, Mickey gives a bumbling performance - think Marlon Brando shambleisms - and in the book, he's a clear thinker and a smart man...


 Talk about feeling flattered!


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## reiver33 (Feb 22, 2015)

Interference said:


> The scene with Diana Rigg, right at the end, when he cries -- Ms Rigg had been eating onions, though
> 
> The annoying thing is that OHMSS is a key story in the Bond mythos and to have it made so, as is generally accepted, deplorably means it's ripe for re-making, I think.
> 
> Oh, and it had the _best_ title song of the entire series (_We Have All The Time In The World_).


 And the best Bond theme - always gives me a slight shiver when the horns kick in


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## J-Sun (Feb 23, 2015)

Long ago but, speaking of Hollywood not being able to handle "Mongolians" (or Asians, generally), I haven't read the story, but Mickey Rooney as "Mr. I. Y. Yunioshi" in _Breakfast at Tiffany's_ was non-optimal.


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## Vince W (Feb 23, 2015)

J-Sun said:


> Long ago but, speaking of Hollywood not being able to handle "Mongolians" (or Asians, generally), I haven't read the story, but Mickey Rooney as "Mr. I. Y. Yunioshi" in _Breakfast at Tiffany's_ was non-optimal.



Not limited to Hollywood or even film.

Spike Milligan's horrible portrayal of Kevin O'Grady in Curry and Chips. At least On The Buses had actors that were really Indian.


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## Boneman (Feb 23, 2015)

Vince W said:


> Not limited to Hollywood or even film.
> 
> Spike Milligan's horrible portrayal of Kevin O'Grady in Curry and Chips. At least On The Buses had actors that were really Indian.



Almost as bad as the guy playing the Indian in 'It ain't half hot mum' - can't recall his name. 

Have seen the Jack Reacher movie now, but all I saw was Tom Cruise in  an action movie. I do hope Lee Child got millions for the film rights...


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## clovis-man (Mar 5, 2015)

J-Sun said:


> Long ago but, speaking of Hollywood not being able to handle "Mongolians" (or Asians, generally), I haven't read the story, but Mickey Rooney as "Mr. I. Y. Yunioshi" in _Breakfast at Tiffany's_ was non-optimal.



The worst case of Hollywood preferring to cast Caucasian actors as Asians (and there are many) was *The Good Earth* (1937). Paul Muni as Wang and Luise Rainer as O-Lan. Worse yet, Rainer was given an Academy Award for her role. All while Anna May Wong was ready and available to play the part. This practice came to be known as "yellow-face". Of course that continued up through the Charlie Chan movies with Warner Oland and Mr. Moto films with Peter Lorre. I'm not sure I ever saw a film with a proper Asian cast until 1961's *Flower Drum Song*. I'm not counting WW II films with Chinese actors playing Japanese villains.


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## Jeffbert (Mar 5, 2015)

Before he became known as Master Po in the TV series *Kung Fu*, Keye Luke took the role of Mr. Wong, after Karloff had it for the first films in that series. Admittedly, this was an exception to the rule, which was obviously intended to cast known (& just as importantly, Caucasian) stars in important roles.  It was likely because movie makers were not willing to cast Asians in lead roles, thinking few people would watch the film, regardless of whether their reasons were racist or just that they preferred stars as leads.


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## F.J. Hansen (Mar 12, 2015)

Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan in *Star Trek: Into Darkness*.


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## Allegra (Mar 12, 2015)

springs said:


> Nic Cage in Captain Corelli's; truly awful casting, truly awful acting.



I haven't seen the film but hearing Cage in there I made a mental note to steer away from it. Either he really shouldn't be an actor or he hasn't found a matching role that can bring out his talent.


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