# Justina Robson on women in SF



## Stephen Palmer (Jul 26, 2015)

Great piece in the Indie on the current state of women's SF writing.


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## millymollymo (Jul 26, 2015)

"The girls have been in the playroom and we customised a lot." <- Don't you know it  Thanks for sharing Stephen!


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 26, 2015)

I think that's a pretty rubbish "chip on shoulder" article that actually reinforces false  gender stereotypes.


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## Jo Zebedee (Jul 26, 2015)

Ray McCarthy said:


> I think that's a pretty rubbish "chip on shoulder" article that actually reinforces false  gender stereotypes.



No? Why am I Jo and not Joanne? Why do male romance writers take female pen names? Because bias exists, like it or not.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 26, 2015)

Far far worse for Men writting Romance than women in SFF. Loads of successful female authors going back to late sixties.

But what particularly grated was the stupid comments about Maths and Science. 

Yes there are gender issues, but this was a rambling diatribe.


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 26, 2015)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Why am I Jo and not Joanne?



I presumed because it was more catchy - if you were aiming for a male pseudonym you forgot the "e" on the end of "Jo"!


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## Jo Zebedee (Jul 26, 2015)

Brian Turner said:


> I presumed because it was more catchy - if you were aiming for a male pseudonym you forgot the "e" on the end of "Jo"!



Iwasn't hung up on people knowing I was female - I'm open online about who I am.  But I was also very aware that it did no harm having something a little more ambiguous than a very female sounding name. Going with the outright falsity of Joe would be very against the kind of person I am, but a middle of the road choice felt right.

I also think writing sf rather than fantasy (so far...) Probably influenced that.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jul 26, 2015)

Interesting, Ray.  It didn't seem like a diatribe to me.  I thought it was rather dry with all the statistics (which I don't doubt are true).  And the comments from editors were very similar to something one of my own editors told me.

Your own reading shows that you aren't hung up on math and science and masculine prose, that you are interested in human relationships and interactions, but it would be a mistake to think you are the typical male reader.  You're far more open-minded than most.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jul 27, 2015)

I thought it was really interesting and written with what seemed to me to be a wry sense of humour. And I liked the "this is SF now" comment.


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## Cat's Cradle (Jul 27, 2015)

I hope I'm not derailing the thread by asking Jo a question...I'll say first that it's a shame that the times haven't changed enough that you could publish--without worries--under whatever name would have most pleased you. But I wonder, when you become wildly successful as an author, would you consider changing to Joanne...or would you need to stick with Jo because of name recognition? 

Terrific article, btw. I don't suppose I have ever personally experienced gender bias, though most of my friends are female, and I've heard horror stories from them over the years (the bias, and condescension they encounter in taking a car to an auto mechanic are a prime, infuriating, and nearly universal example of this). I will take the author's word (and statistics) on the bias that exists within the world of SF, and will try to make my little corner of the world a friendlier place for the works of female SF authors. CC


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 27, 2015)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> but it would be a mistake to think you are the typical


I guess too "personal experience" can be skewed, though N.I. and Ireland is in many ways traditionally sexist, I've never known anyone that cared about which sex an SF or F writer was.  But my wife was actually sceptical that any men wrote Romantic Fiction, especially of the old fashioned type. Of course they use female pseudonyms.

Is there a sort of self perpetuating thing here if writers perceive (no matter if really true or false) they need a certain flavour of pseudonym for a certain market?

Is an SF (or F) female name really a prejudice for readers, or for Agents, or for Publishers? Or does it vary by country. Or are awards especially biased (IMO most awards for anything seem bonkers, esp. Architecture).

Thanks for kind words Teresa, you can tell I don't worry about giving contrary opinions. But I worry that the way this article is written re-enforces perceptions. Esp. the comments about Maths and Science. My Wife has degree in Maths and worked as a Computer Scientist doing computer programs simulating high energy physics experiments.  She really hates SF&F no matter what sex the writer. Especially hates Magic and Starships.
My sister manages IT systems.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 27, 2015)

Cat's Cradle said:


> taking a car to an auto mechanic


That's pretty much a horror story anyway actually. Most are not actually Mechanics any more and treat owners as idiots no matter the sex. Many are. I always thought that changing a tyre, checking tyre pressure,  oil, water and petrol/Diesel should be in the driving test.
That schools should teach ALL the pupils at last few of years of primary level to sew, cook, type, basic engineering drawing. That the first couple of years secondary school should have basic DIY for all too. Drilling holes, putting up shelves, painting, measuring sawing etc as well as some Sewing Machine clothes making and more advanced Household Management.

Gender specific incompetence isn't natural. It's taught by society at an early age. The solution is to abolish gender and make all small children regardless of sex wear dresses and trousers etc, but better general education. Purely concentrating on Reading, Writing and Arithmetic and the academic book learning perpetuates  Gender specific incompetence and Gender based discrimination.

A friend's wife was in hospital having first baby:
"Do you add water to cook baked Beans?"

He was talking about the ready made kind, not starting from scratch (I only met someone once ever that actually did that).


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 27, 2015)

Interesting, I just came on this which backs up my contention that the problem is largely School based and not College or Workplace:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/27/new_study_into_lack_of_women_in_tech_its_not_the_mens_fault/

At primary level in Ireland there is a problem that the teachers are nearly all women and the Principals nearly all men. That's a source of problems.


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## Jo Zebedee (Jul 27, 2015)

@Cat's Cradle - no, I'll keep Jo, I think, unless everything goes pearshaped and I need to change to a pen name. As Brian pointed out I've used the female Jo and I'm open about being a lady.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jul 27, 2015)

I know absolutely nothing about cars, so I drive a Skoda Fabia.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jul 27, 2015)

Ray McCarthy said:


> At primary level in Ireland there is a problem that the teachers are nearly all women and the Principals nearly all men. That's a source of problems.



I used to work at a girls' school - a well known one. Four members of the academic staff were male - two of those in Physics! Aaaargh!


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## Serendipity (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm sorry to say that apart from the discussion about her novel, I found nothing new in the article. 

I will also add that I have seen comments elsewhere about the low percentage of women critics having an impact on this debate, though the relationship is complicated. Strange Horizons gives some interesting facts - see http://strangehorizons.com/2015/20150330/sfcount-a.shtml


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