# The Man in the High Castle TV series



## Brian G Turner (Jan 18, 2015)

Amazon Prime have done a TV pilot for Philip K Dick's _The Man in the High Castle_.

Am planning to look at it soon - anyone else seen it yet? 

More here:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2015/01/16/the-man-in-the-high-castle-review


----------



## ctg (Jan 18, 2015)

I have seen the pilot and it's good, although I don't know the original work. I haven't read it even though I have read quite a bit of PKD's work. It is very believable. Masterfully crafted, but there's only pilot episode that leads two main characters to meet each other. 

So, not knowing if it's actually faithful adaptation to the original prose is a bit difficult, but I expect that there's going to be a number of people, who's going to at least acquire the original piece if they like the pilot as much as I do.  So there. 

I liked it, but I'm still a bit sceptical on how this is going to turn. Will Amazon be a good producer?


----------



## Cli-Fi (Jan 19, 2015)

ctg said:


> I have seen the pilot and it's good, although I don't know the original work. I haven't read it even though I have read quite a bit of PKD's work. It is very believable. Masterfully crafted, but there's only pilot episode that leads two main characters to meet each other.
> 
> So, not knowing if it's actually faithful adaptation to the original prose is a bit difficult, but I expect that there's going to be a number of people, who's going to at least acquire the original piece if they like the pilot as much as I do.  So there.
> 
> I liked it, but I'm still a bit sceptical on how this is going to turn. Will Amazon be a good producer?



It was definitely something I've never seen on TV...I mean on the internet before. I like that it was completely original and will definitely work great for amazon's streaming platform. I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't get two seasons, but a mini-series will be just fine for me. Very interesting concept.


----------



## markpud (Jan 21, 2015)

I should check out the pilot. I saw a trailer (more of a clip I think) and it looked intriguing... Well constructed alt-history is always fun !


----------



## BAYLOR (Jan 23, 2015)

Looks very promising.


----------



## ctg (Jan 25, 2015)

I was waiting for the second episode and as it was nowhere to be seen, I went and looked for an episode list and found this:



> Amazon Studios works a bit differently than other television channels. They produce pilot episodes of a number of different prospective programs, then release them and gather data on their success. The most promising shows are then picked up as regular series. _The Man in the High Castle_ is currently under review so whether it will be picked up as a series is not yet known.



I hope it'll get picked up.


----------



## Toby Frost (Feb 18, 2015)

I thought this was pretty decent, and made the book come alive pretty well. The look of the novel is very well reproduced, and the details – a game show contestant in German uniform, the Japaneseing (if that’s a word) of San Francisco, and so on – gave it a 3D quality and helped gloss over the fact that the world of the novel isn’t a very convincing one (not, say, compared to the same situation as _Fatherland_). Making the mysterious book into a film was a good idea visually. I would be interested to know how the more esoteric elements of the novel would be dealt with on screen in later episodes, because the story is as much about the idea of discerning reality as it is about convincingly depicting an Axis victory.


----------



## ctg (Feb 19, 2015)

> *Philip K. Dick adaptation, The Man In The High Castle, has been picked up for a full season by Amazon Prime Instant Video...*
> 
> It was Amazon Original Series' most-watched pilot, and now it's received a full series order. Celebrations are in order for writer Frank Spotnitz and director David Semel's take on Philip K. Dick's _The Man In The High Castle_.
> 
> ...


 http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-man...n-in-the-high-castle-gets-a-full-season-order


----------



## ctg (Oct 26, 2015)

And it's back after a long wait. The series continues from where it was left and it's as beautiful as it was in the first time around. But if you'll watch it episode at time, you might feel a bit disoriented, because there's not much to explain on how this parallel world came to be. I feel that the "film" is at the moment a McGuffin and there's much more to it than what narrative suggest.


----------



## Droflet (Nov 1, 2015)

I've seen the first two episodes and am intrigued. Love the nastiness between the Germans and Japanese. Looking forward to seeing how this works out. In November. Sigh.


----------



## Lawrence Burton (Nov 2, 2015)

I managed about twenty minutes of the first episode, but it just looked like a lot of other things to me. As with many adaptations of Philip K. Dick, it didn't seem to have much in the way of a sense of humour, which is a fairly integral element to his fiction. It was probably a great series, but it wasn't for me. To be honest I wish they would leave the poor guy alone.

You probably don't even want to know what I think of _Blade Runner_.


----------



## Kylara (Nov 2, 2015)

Pilot was excellent, have yet to find the continuation episodes. Been waiting for the rest to happen with quiet anticipation. Very high production cost and they really went all out with the worldbuilding in the pilot


----------



## ctg (Nov 2, 2015)

Lawrence Burton said:


> As with many adaptations of Philip K. Dick, it didn't seem to have much in the way of a sense of humour, which is a fairly integral element to his fiction.



I read that they intentionally changed some things to make plot devices work in the play. Are there any of his stuff that has been faithfully adapted by the producer? I don't know.


----------



## BAYLOR (Nov 2, 2015)

ctg said:


> I read that they intentionally changed some things to make plot devices work in the play. Are there any of his stuff that has been faithfully adapted by the producer? I don't know.



Good question.


----------



## Droflet (Nov 3, 2015)

Kylara said:


> Pilot was excellent, have yet to find the continuation episodes. Been waiting for the rest to happen with quiet anticipation. Very high production cost and they really went all out with the worldbuilding in the pilot



According to IMdB we'll get the rest on 28th November. Why the hold up? Meh.


----------



## ctg (Nov 3, 2015)

> Heading to Amazon Video shortly is the full series of _The Man In The High Castle_. The show is based on a novel of the same name by the mighty Philip K Dick, and it earns further nerd points for being developed and written by Frank Spotnitz.
> 
> Amazon is putting on a very special event next Monday, 9th November, where the second episode of the show is being screened, followed by a full Q&A in person with Spotnitz himself and some of the cast (we'd wager someone will ask an_ X-Files_ question or two).
> 
> ...


 http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-man...an-in-the-high-castle-special-screening-event


----------



## Lawrence Burton (Nov 3, 2015)

ctg said:


> I read that they intentionally changed some things to make plot devices work in the play. Are there any of his stuff that has been faithfully adapted by the producer? I don't know.



_A Scanner Darkly_ stuck pretty close in terms of theme, general feel etc. Last time I mentioned this anywhere (just to pre-empt any potential repeat of the same), some person (distinguished earlier by just having stated that _Blade Runner _was the book Philip K. Dick hadn't been good enough to write) came back with 'no point in adapting if you're just going to make a slavish copy of the original' which I'm fairly sure is just one of those things people say because they've heard it said before and haven't actually considered the point, to which I would ask, why not just making something original with no bearing on previously existing material in that case?

All of which is just me thinking aloud here. Obviously some adaptations will work better with changes made according to the medium, so very possibly this was one of them, as you suggest.


----------



## Kylara (Nov 3, 2015)

I will second the a scanner darkly film as being the best adaptation of his work in a recognisable form. I love that film, and the cell shading just visualises his concept and the feel of the book so well. Blade runner missed my favourite concepts out


----------



## Perpetual Man (Nov 18, 2015)

I've just watched the pilot and quite enjoyed it, enough to make me watch some more.

I'm not familiar with the original either, and although it is probably worth adding to the old 'to read' pile it would just be another brick in a wall that seems to only grow.


----------



## Idoru (Nov 18, 2015)

I've watched both episodes so far available and really enjoyed them. I haven't read the source material, so I've no idea how it measures up. So far the series seems to be well acted, well written and really beautifully shot. Looking forward to the rest of the series.


----------



## Vince W (Nov 22, 2015)

I've finished the pilot episode and while I enjoyed it, like all of Dick's adaptations a lot has been altered. That said I will be watching the entire run. It's one of the better things I've seen in quite a while.


----------



## clovis-man (Nov 22, 2015)

Watched the first episode and am somewhat intrigued. But now I have to read the book before going any further. I'm a tad jaded because of the nature of rewrites his other works have gotten to be placed on the screen. And will someone please tell me why a movie has never been made of *Dr. Bloodmoney*?


----------



## Droflet (Nov 23, 2015)

Too smart for Hollywood?


----------



## Droflet (Dec 2, 2015)

Just finished this. Intriguing premise that went nowhere. Questions without answers irk me. So my rating. Meh.


----------



## Idoru (Dec 23, 2015)

I'm up to episode 8 of this and really liking it. I've not read the source material (or anything by PK Dick) so I don't know how it compares. I think it's beautifully made, with excellent acting and writing. It is very slow, but I don't mind that so much with streaming. Interestingly, I read an interview with the writer about how streaming is changing the way TV shows are made/written. So shows written for TV have to be a certain length, they have to have a definite beginning, middle, end, there have to be little reminders for things that might have happened for the viewer three weeks ago. None of that is relevant for streamed shows in which the viewer might watch the whole thing over a weekend. It doesn't have to fit into a time slot so can be 45 minutes if that's what the story calls for or more than hour. You don't need mini-cliffhangers for ad breaks because there aren't any. You can have one continuous story over one entire season. I think it'll result in better TV.


----------



## Dave (Dec 24, 2015)

Idoru said:


> I think it'll result in better TV.


I think I'll have to disagree. I've watched all of these. The Pilot and second episode were great, but after those, the story went nowhere until the final episode. There were subplots that could have been picked up and ran with (the son with the illness) but it was all very pedestrian. It is a long time since I read the book (it is a strangely plotted book, which the TV series is reflecting) but I think they ran out of that story after the second episode. So, I did expect them to create much more new plot in the TV series (such as in the recent _Twelve Monkeys_.) I remember that there were a lot more references in the book to things they could have used (the Mediterranean Sea drained for farmland.)


----------



## Idoru (Dec 24, 2015)

Dave said:


> I think I'll have to disagree.


Do you think that it's a problem with just this show or with streamed TV as a whole? I think streaming will democritise TV in the same way it has publishing and music and I think that while this will mean there's a whole more rubbish out there, there will also be a lot more choice and a lot more quality - if you know where to look. I also think that this can only be a good thing for more marginalised  genres like sci-fi and fantasy. The Man in the High Castle might not be the best example. It appeals to me but I'm just one person. I don't think Sense8 would ever have been made by any of the more traditional channels, and while it's not without its flaws I really enjoyed it and want to see how it develops. I'd love to see more experimental shows being made and I think streaming services are the places for that. 

PS sorry for highjacking the thread! This discussion could probably be better served if in a separate topic but I've no idea how to separate them or even if I can.


----------



## Dave (Dec 24, 2015)

Idoru said:


> Do you think that it's a problem with just this show or with streamed TV as a whole? I think streaming will democritise TV in the same way it has publishing and music and I think that while this will mean there's a whole more rubbish out there, there will also be a lot more choice and a lot more quality - if you know where to look. I also think that this can only be a good thing for more marginalised  genres like sci-fi and fantasy. The Man in the High Castle might not be the best example. It appeals to me but I'm just one person. I don't think Sense8 would ever have been made by any of the more traditional channels, and while it's not without its flaws I really enjoyed it and want to see how it develops. I'd love to see more experimental shows being made and I think streaming services are the places for that.


Yes, I agree with you about the genre as a whole, and _Sense8_ is a better example than _Man in the High Castle_. They can tell longer stories, so that it is more like a book or a book series than a 1or 2 hour cinematic film. However, I think this began a much longer time ago when the American TV studios didn't have to syndicate to the Networks anymore and make the episodes available to be shown in any order. The criticisms I hear of 1960's shows like _Star Trek_ are a little unfair because they had no choice than to make them this way.


----------



## ctg (Oct 9, 2016)

Season 2. 






Geoblocked Official Trailer.


----------



## clovis-man (Oct 9, 2016)

Could be entertaining, but it's not Phil Dick anymore.


----------



## ctg (Oct 9, 2016)

clovis-man said:


> Phil Dick anymore.



It wasn't pure Phil from the beginning. The show was altered, and the ending left a possibility for something bigger.


----------



## Yog-Sothoth (Oct 17, 2016)

Watched the first season, and I absolutely love it. Its quite scary considering this could have been today's reality if either the Germans or the Japanese had developed the A-bomb first. Britain, the Soviet Union and the US could not have put up a long resistance if its major cities were wiped out. The Man In The High Castle in a way makes you appreciate the sacrifice of those that died fighting on the side of the Allies, be it colonial, imperial, occupied, free or national soldiers.

I watched this show and then moved on to Band of Brothers and The Pacific, the latter two are so much more powerful having the above perspective while watching them. WWII was one nasty war, but there was simply no other way around it, this was a timeline war of possible realities. I'm glad this one came out on top.


----------



## BAYLOR (Oct 17, 2016)

Yog-Sothoth said:


> Watched the first season, and I absolutely love it. Its quite scary considering this could have been today's reality if either the Germans or the Japanese had developed the A-bomb first. Britain, the Soviet Union and the US could not have put up a long resistance if its major cities were wiped out. The Man In The High Castle in a way makes you appreciate the sacrifice of those that died fighting on the side of the Allies, be it colonial, imperial, occupied, free or national soldiers.
> 
> I watched this show and then moved on to Band of Brothers and The Pacific, the latter two are so much powerful having the above perspective while watching them. WWII was one nasty war, but there was simply no other way around it, this was a timeline war of possible realities. I'm glad this one came out on top.




I doubt history could have played out that way.


----------



## Dave (Oct 17, 2016)

BAYLOR said:


> I doubt history could have played out that way.


Here was me, thinking that it was a documentary rather than a fictional alternative history.


----------



## BAYLOR (Oct 17, 2016)

Dave said:


> Here was me, thinking that it was a documentary rather than a fictional alternative history.



Nope it's definitely fiction.


----------



## ctg (Oct 17, 2016)

Dave said:


> Here was me, thinking that it was a documentary rather than a fictional alternative history.



I love you Dave. So innocent.


----------



## Idoru (Nov 9, 2016)

Second series of this suddenly seems utterly redundant and yet very timely.


----------



## ctg (Dec 18, 2016)

The Man in the High Castle has always been a difficult to judge. The first series wasn't an easy piece for anyone to watch, because the audience journeys into a world we find so difficult to imagine. Things aren't explain, and they still aren't, until the very end of the second season. 

This series is spectacular and fairly difficult to for the audience to understand as it requires totally open mind. You'll need it, because to watch this you'll have to be open to a suggesting that at in some utopistic version the "uber dream" is beautiful. 

I could as well call this an origami, because until you'll have all pieces, you won't know exactly where the rabbit hole leads. But even then, I promise you that there will be time when you'll go back and rewatch, because the situations are mind-boggling. Although they all build up to a bigger picture. 

One that explains PKD dystopic utopia better than anything else, and for that, Amazon has done much better job than helping three stooges in a car show. It is a remarkable job. In some case The Man in the High Castle has done better job with the time-travel than the Twelve Monkeys or Continuum.

The reason for that is because instead of leaving the multiverse in a theory state, it proudly dips into and call it as it - the alternative history. Those two together makes this series to one of the brightest Science-Fiction gems in this year. It is truly that good. 

But it is also a risk. Same NBC took with the Timeless. Both, Amazon and NBC invested huge sums of money into the these series, but for it's the rainforest company that I personally believe to win the game. Then again I again reiterate that this series flies over most peoples head. So, if NBC listens they take notes from this one instead of Doctor Who on how to make a TT series that really twists watchers minds.


----------



## ctg (Jan 4, 2017)

> There's no huge surprise here, as _The Man In The High Castle _is one of the most talked-about shows on Amazon Prime, but yes, it's been confirmed that a third season of the alt-history Nazi-stuffed drama is on the way.


 The Man In The High Castle: Amazon renews for season 3


----------



## WilliamDavey627 (Jan 5, 2017)

I gave the pilot a go and I just didn't find it that compelling though. Great idea for a show however.


----------



## ctg (Jan 5, 2017)

WilliamDavey627 said:


> I gave the pilot a go and I just didn't find it that compelling though.



I'm sorry. I believe the biggest thing that turn people away from this is the usage of extremism. Especially by altering the end of the Second World War and let the history run through the terrible tragedies. Thing about that is they acknowledge the subject in the second season number of times and they'll repeat the same message: "It was an error in the judgement."

Yet, still the history repeats itself as it trod down towards the doom as if there is nothing that could be done about it. How it ends, I don't want to spoil about it by saying too much. Still I think they've tried their best to stay loyal to PKD's vision by showing how alternate this world is from ours, while they try their best to trick the audience to believe in the storyline history instead of their brain saying: "No."


----------



## Brian G Turner (Jul 13, 2017)

Watched the first episode and really enjoyed it. Was especially glad that they didn't try to be gratuitous with blood or violence. I'm going to see if the rest of the family might enjoy it.


----------



## ctg (Jul 13, 2017)

Brian G Turner said:


> I'm going to see if the rest of the family might enjoy it.



It might hard to watch it with young ones. Some of the questions might be difficult to answer. There is not much blood, but there is extreme violence. Especially towards the end on both seasons.


----------



## Brian G Turner (Jul 13, 2017)

ctg said:


> It might hard to watch it with young ones. Some of the questions might be difficult to answer. There is not much blood, but there is extreme violence. Especially towards the end on both seasons.



Okay, cheers for the warning - I'll make sure to finish season one by myself and make a decision on that.


----------



## ctg (Oct 5, 2018)

It's here, available now at AMZ Prime TV and later on in other formats. Happy Binging for everyone who watches. I'll write a general review later on.


----------



## ctg (Oct 6, 2018)

Third season was really depressing stuff to watch, and not for a long time I have felt physically sick for seeing the horrors Nazi occupation could have caused ... or would if let fascistic ideals raise again. There is a moment at end of the third season, where Himler's crazy ideals culminated against the Lady Liberty. Seeing it burning and shattered at the waters made me somewhat pissed off. Maybe the reason for it is because it's the symbol of freedom.

Thing is third isn't easy thing to watch after two seasons that weren't as ambitiously crazy as the portal technology explodes to viewers face in most macabre manner, with the Nazi leaders celebrating at the background on the success of making carnage.

If there is any hope it is the fact that the next season is most likely going to be the final one, because by the time it finishes the world has burned in atomic fire or the fascism has been toppled all over the world. I think it is really difficult status to achieve as the world has been conquered by the Third Reich and there is nobody to oppose them then the Japanese Imperium.

It is a difficult for me to write about the characters and their progression without spoiling the major events. It just seems to me that there wasn't that much of character growth as there was in the previous season and I can count only three who advanced at all during the course of this strangely addictive but also a slow paced season. 

So, if you're going to watch, be warned that it is not going to be an easy watch and certainly not something you might want to watch with whole family.


----------



## Al Jackson (Oct 10, 2018)

I must not keep up, I thought there was only to be 3 seasons, don't know where i got that idea!
Dick did plan sequels to the novel , but never wrote them. I wonder if he made notes? Since his daughter was a producer on the pilot , I am guessing she is still involved. Does she have any Dick notes. I mean my guess is that 98 percent of the show is made from whole cloth. Tho, one notes that all the stuff Dick wrote about the Nazis was descriptive , while the show brought it all on-stage. The conflict between Japan and Germany is the best part of the show.


----------



## ctg (Oct 10, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> I wonder if he made notes?



Yeah, if you read the AMZ prime notes, you'll see that he started the second novel but never got to finish it. According to the producers a lot of stuff you see in the third comes from that second unfinished novel. 



Al Jackson said:


> The conflict between Japan and Germany is the best part of the show.



I really like the Japanese bits, after that the Neutral Zone is my second favourite. Whole third reich is the worst. They have amazing technological marvels, but all of that just get buried under the world dominated ideas. I honestly cheered when they shot mr H. I hope he doesn't survive to the next season.


----------



## Al Jackson (Oct 11, 2018)

ctg said:


> Yeah, if you read the AMZ prime notes, you'll see that he started the second novel but never got to finish it. According to the producers a lot of stuff you see in the third comes from that second unfinished novel.
> 
> 
> 
> I really like the Japanese bits, after that the Neutral Zone is my second favourite. Whole third reich is the worst. They have amazing technological marvels, but all of that just get buried under the world dominated ideas. I honestly cheered when they shot mr H. I hope he doesn't survive to the next season.



The show only uses the framework of the novel which has little action in it and is mostly 'inner' thoughts. I was really surprised the novel was picked up as a TV show even tho I knew they were going to jazz it up (eve knowing Dick's popularity ). They kept the parallel universe theme in the book but they sort of complexified it to the point I am not sure the show writers know what Dick's narrative was about.


----------



## Dave (Nov 25, 2018)

I didn't see the plot reveal (about travellers between reality) at the end of the third season coming. It made sense though. They've lost a lot of the original characters now. If it continues into a fourth season then it will be quite different - much more science fiction. The plot has become the same as the later seasons of _Sliders_.


----------



## ctg (Nov 25, 2018)

Dave said:


> They've lost a lot of the original characters now. If it continues into a fourth season then it will be quite different - much more science fiction. The plot has become the same as the later seasons of _Sliders_.



To be frank, Timeless should have been like this series instead of them messing up every week with historical events. What they do in this one is far better use of historical placement then just trumping all the used things once again. From season to season they have grown characters and places, but I'm not sure about this latest development and if it's something PKD would have imagined happening in this universe. 

I do get some of the points for why they would develop a natsi dimensional hopper as it would explain somethings, but in the other hand, it only terrifies and drives off viewers.


----------



## BAYLOR (Nov 25, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> The show only uses the framework of the novel which has little action in it and is mostly 'inner' thoughts. I was really surprised the novel was picked up as a TV show even tho I knew they were going to jazz it up (eve knowing Dick's popularity ). They kept the parallel universe theme in the book but they sort of complexified it to the point I am not sure the show writers know what Dick's narrative was about.



I read the book  years a go, overall like the book but hated the ending.


----------



## Al Jackson (Dec 16, 2018)

So … now I have seen seasons 2 and 3 of Man in a High Castle . 
Gotta say, this is fairly sophisticated science fiction, in fact a bit rare on TV.
As a multiverse story I don't think it has ever been done before.
I thought season 2 did too much tap dancing , making time.
The only really interesting story is the conflict between Japan and Nazi Germany which is a logical extension of this alternate universe narrative.
Third season has introduced a super science device I did not see coming .... this has potential to lead to a logical conclusion to the whole story. They have a fourth season coming I hope it ends there!!


----------



## ctg (Dec 16, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> The only really interesting story is the conflict between Japan and Nazi Germany which is a logical extension of this alternate universe narrative.



It's all alternative history. I find the life in the mountain zone equally as interesting as what they show it in the SF or NY. What I don't like are the occupation forces, and natzis showing facism and no rules. They can kill anyone and get away with it. The conflict is nothing, because there hasn't really been conflict, only clashes, assassinations and empty threats. 



Al Jackson said:


> Third season has introduced a super science device I did not see coming .... this has potential to lead to a logical conclusion to the whole story. They have a fourth season coming I hope it ends there!!



I don't like the what they did with the superscience device. Surely it's German, but it also has a potential to be a story breaking device. So yeah, let's hope they know how to finish it nicely at fourth ... if it gets commissioned.


----------



## Dave (Dec 17, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> Third season has introduced a super science device I did not see coming .... this has potential to lead to a logical conclusion to the whole story. They have a fourth season coming I hope it ends there!!





ctg said:


> I don't like the what they did with the superscience device. Surely it's German, but it also has a potential to be a story breaking device. So yeah, let's hope they know how to finish it nicely at fourth ... if it gets commissioned.


As I said already, it simply turns the show into the latter Seasons of _Sliders_ (after it moved to the sci-fi channel) when machines to travel between alternate universes were used by the very Nazi-like Kromaggs to attempt to conquer them all. 

However, the final plot reveal in this Season; that it is only possible to travel to a universe in which your alternate self is dead, makes it very much more interesting scenario.  For instance, as well as universes where Juliana's sister is not dead and John Smith's son is not dead, there will also be universes where Adolf Hitler is not dead. Anyone could come back.

The show's director, Director Daniel Percival has told _Business Insider_ that the show has reached a point where the characters are in a cycle and “destined to replicate the patterns until [they] reach full understanding”. He hinted that there will be more moving between worlds in season four, and also that that ending has already been mapped out. So, I would assume that the story is heading to a conclusion of some sort.


----------



## Al Jackson (Dec 17, 2018)

ctg said:


> It's all alternative history. I find the life in the mountain zone equally as interesting as what they show it in the SF or NY. What I don't like are the occupation forces, and natzis showing facism and no rules. They can kill anyone and get away with it. The conflict is nothing, because there hasn't really been conflict, only clashes, assassinations and empty threats.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like the what they did with the superscience device. Surely it's German, but it also has a potential to be a story breaking device. So yeah, let's hope they know how to finish it nicely at fourth ... if it gets commissioned.


My understanding there will be a 4th season. 
One odd thing about the show , they hew close to this alternate universe being in the early 1960s, that is ok when in the USA but when in Berlin seems there should be some more advances in technology , after all they have supersonic trans Atlantic flight... tho things are more shiny some how there has not been much advance since the 1940s.


----------



## Dave (Dec 17, 2018)

Al Jackson said:


> My understanding there will be a 4th season.





Dave said:


> The show's director, Director Daniel Percival has told _Business Insider_ that... there will be more moving between worlds in *season four*, and also that *the ending* has already been mapped out.



As for technology, I think they have it just right. The Cold War that the Germans have with the Japanese has brought the Atomic Bomb for the Japanese and the Parallel Universe 'sliding' Machine for the Germans. It has brought supersonic aircraft but these are all spin-offs from military development. Domestic technology, and developments such as fast-food hamburger outlets and electric guitar groups would not necessarily happen, nor would fashions be the same. The Nazis would favour the high German traditional styles, the leather jackets and the WMF steel look.

What I think they have missed is which side that the US and British scientists went to after the invasion. If we assume that the nuclear scientists have gone to the Japanese, since they have the bomb, then did the computer scientists also go there, and do the Japanese have working computers? If the British computer scientists went to Germany, then do they have computers? Germany will have all the rocket scientists that the US took away, but with computers they will not be able to reach space. Reaching space first and having intercontinental ballistic missile capability is probably much more significant than the actual payload they carry.


----------



## Al Jackson (Dec 17, 2018)

Dave said:


> What I think they have missed is which side that the US and British scientists went to after the invasion. If we assume that the nuclear scientists have gone to the Japanese, since they have the bomb, then did the computer scientists also go there, and do the Japanese have working computers? If the British computer scientists went to Germany, then do they have computers? Germany will have all the rocket scientists that the US took away, but with computers they will not be able to reach space. Reaching space first and having intercontinental ballistic missile capability is probably much more significant than the actual payload they carry.



Good questions. Well there was a lot of technology developed in WWII by the military that continued , they do have television at about the 1960 level. I think it would take a lot of imagination to figure out where at what level Nazi technology would be. In the novel the US never enters the war , Dick does not detail it but seems Germany is not devastated, we never find out what the British did , did they get some bombing in. Dick , I think, gives very thin outlines of what happened to the USSR and China. The show mentions Africa once … I don't think anything relating to England and Europe is ever covered? 
Seems , on the show, it is implied that Nazi Germany has a vast empire world wide , not clear that even with a powerful central government Germany would ever have enough economic strength to control so much, Rome ran into the same problem.
Have to say Dick did set up the Germany vs Japan conflict in the novel and that is the most interesting part of the TV show, the American underground kind of runs as a side bar.
Dick had only two alternate universes going at the same time the TV show has many or at least 4.
I can't see how the series can be popular enough to go beyond 4 seasons.


----------



## Al Jackson (Feb 20, 2019)

Four seasons and out. Long ago when I heard this was being made I thought "that's the last Dick story I thought would ever be made" . I think the novel is Dick's best , it did win a Hugo, at the same time it is a difficult double alternate universe story. The show 'action o fied' it. They took all the off stage stuff , in the novel, about the confrontation between Japan and Nazi German and put it on stage. This worked! The story about the American 'under ground' was lackluster and seemed to just go in a loop. The Grasshopper Lies Heavy was changed to a newsreel parallel universe , oddly, tho they have not followed up with it, four parallel universes! Thought seasons 2 and 3 the only interesting story is conspiracy of  the Nazi's to take Japan's empire from them, this makes a lot of sense, even if a lot of really goofy things happen!! 
Season 3 introduced a plot element that could indeed present a decent conclusion to the series, we shall see.
Season one ended , interestingly, on Dick's ending in the novel, which would have been a neat all in one story... they kind of hedged their bet … if they got only one season… and then got a 2nd and 3rd season which they have with imagination except for the 'American resistance' story which is very uneven.


----------



## ctg (Feb 20, 2019)

> The final season of _*The Man in the High Castle*_ will be rocked by war and revolution. The Resistance becomes a full-blown rebellion, driven by Juliana Crain’s (Alexa Davalos) visions of a better world. A new Black insurgent movement emerges to fight the forces of Nazism and imperialism. As empires teeter, Chief Inspector Takeshi Kido (Joel De La Fuente) will find himself torn between his duty to his country and the bonds of family. Meanwhile, Reichsmarschall John Smith (Rufus Sewell) will be drawn towards the portal the Nazis have built to another universe, and the tantalizing possibility of stepping through a gateway to the path not taken​


 The Man In The High Castle final season trailer rocks the world


----------



## ctg (Nov 18, 2019)

The Season 4 is currently streaming in the Amazon Prime. 

It is kind of amazing that they have managed to get so much material out of a PK Dicks standard length novel. Nobody thought that it would be this long. So let's be happy that at the end of this great series has finally arrived, even if the ending a slightly tilting towards Disney traditions. Maybe we'll have to blame the current culture about needing some hope, even though the final season dives deeply into the dystopian settings. 

I won't say that what you'll see is as depressing as the previous three season, because it's not. In fact, I did find myself cheering for the BCR (Black Communist Rebellion) when they delivered the oppressors some 'Murican' freedom. It is even more intriguing, when you'll find out that they didn't think about the consequences. Nobody does in Dick's world. Not even the heroes.

Yet, as you progress through the episodes you'll learn that they actually learn from the mistakes after they've happened and they don't repeat the mistakes that got the people in trouble. Usually in Dick's worlds the troubles are the salt among the prose. The people get in the bad way, because it's what always happens.

It is as if there is no hope. Not for anyone. And funny thing is, the heroes create their own. They go down on floor, in some cases bleeding badly, but they don't give up. There simple isn't enough of people left in the world after the Nazi's has been in power for so long time. Hundreds of millions has been purged everywhere. Yet, neither the Nazi's or the Japanese Imperium has been able to conquer the whole world. 

It might surprise you that some of the nations you'd have thought that perished are actively raising up to fight the injustice. It is these immoral stories that gets played around a lot as the main characters try to find a redemption for their souls. There just isn't any. The evil cannot win, because if it would, it would also mean a slow death to the multiverse.

The multiverse term get through around quite a bit in the final season, and for the first time in a long, long while they actually show an actual model and it is very unlike anything that you might have seen in the Back To The Future blackboard or in the recent SF series like The Travellers and Netflix Nightflyers. What they did correctly was that they didn't go all the way into the other worlds and all the possibilities that presents. 

There is just ours and theirs and it's lovely that ours is so nice compared theirs. Nobody really know what lies in there as they are closed with the current technology. Speaking of which, the amount of high technology they show in the show that we don't have or it has just arrived is astounding.

Although I had a little giggle when Panzer IV did break through the resistance lines, and at the background you'll see classical Hind silhouettes coming in to do the Close Air Support operation. That giggle turned straight out laughter when you later on find out what the Herr Himmler has to say about it. But that is also the thing, even though the Nazi's has superior technology, they have also stagnated their development.  

A lot of their leaders think that the fascism is the superior way to rule the humanity as it was back in the actual history. They don't see the dangers in the superior race ideas or even that how depressed the actual people living inside their regimes are. Not even in the Imperial side. There is no real happiness. Not until the last five minutes. 

When you think about it and you compared it to our current world, you start to wonder will we ever be in the same spot? 

I would give four out five stars for this whole series. If you haven't seen it, be aware that you're going to feel sick in places. But if the mystery and dark material tickles your mind, I warmly recommend you to check it out. Also you might want to reread the classic novel first. It won't be available in the every library, but you will certainly find in the Amazon.


----------



## Al Jackson (Jan 1, 2020)

ctg said:


> It is kind of amazing that they have managed to get so much material out of a PK Dicks standard length novel. Nobody thought that it would be this long. So let's be happy that at the end of this great series has finally arrived, even if the ending a slightly tilting towards Disney traditions. Maybe we'll have to blame the current culture about needing some hope, even though the final season dives deeply into the dystopian settings.


As far as I can tell everything after the first season is synthesized by the show writers. I know that Dick once envisioned sequels but I don't think he even left notes. The main thing the show did was to take a lot of off-stage story and run with it.  About half the show story is Nazi East US and Empire of Japan West and the possible conflict between them. Well at least until this season 4. They drop the Japan vs Nazis part.



> I would give four out five stars for this whole series. If you haven't seen it, be aware that you're going to feel sick in places. But if the mystery and dark material tickles your mind, I warmly recommend you to check it out. Also you might want to reread the classic novel first. It won't be available in the every library, but you will certainly find in the Amazon.



I would too.  Tho the story shifts around a lot with a lot of loose ends... The 'Parallel Universe' machine gets sort of under used and in the end , what I thought was going to be a definitive end , gives a 'happy ending' but an ambiguous one. I am not clear what happened! I think Dick would have liked the ending , if not the body of the narrative in season 4. After all season 1 ended exactly where the book ended! (I think they did not know if the show would get more seasons.)
I think this story could have been told in 3 seasons , needed more imagination and less tap dancing... I got tired American rebel groups sort of looping on the same theme....
This was definitely sophisticated NON-space-opera science fiction, actually alternate universe SF , a rare thing for TV.
Oddly the first season implied , by way of the films, 4 alternate universes, Dick had only two in the novel, with the somewhat mysterious ending the 4 could still be there but it sure felt like just two in the end.

Odd how they mixed the I Ching in without any explanation... Dick's novel had a lot of exposition on it.

I did not buy the big conspiracy number in Berlin in episode 9 … 

One thread that totally lost me was why did General Whitcroft  call off the invasion of the Western states when Smith committed suicide?
I must have missed a story point.


----------



## ctg (Jan 1, 2020)

Al Jackson said:


> One thread that totally lost me was why did General Whitcroft call off the invasion of the Western states when Smith committed suicide?


it was not important enough for them to develop and it would had to have screentime. All that means money that Amazon couldn't or wouldn't shell out. I don't want them to go back to that world and develop more, because we have seen enough. If the humanity turns dark then maybe. Even on positive light there is nothing that world can give, because it's one of the darkest ever developed for the small screen.


----------



## Al Jackson (Jan 2, 2020)

It was the oddest thing.

I am familiar with Dick’s works, short stories and his novels , I think Man in a High Castle is his best novel.


The first season is the novels story , rejiggered to put in more action, and with the parallel universe story told differently, by way of odd news reels instead of a book.

The first season ends where the novel did, I guess they thought they would get only one season.

The conflict between Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan  , off stage in the novel, is on stage , and makes a good story, the American underground story , the other half, has got a lot of tap dancing.

Alas the Nazi-Japan story , even tho its ending in S4 is logical, is kind of a shaggy dog story.

A super science fiction artifact introduced in season 3, which seemed headed for a logical ‘happy ending’ is sort of under used… and we get a happy-ending but kind of a screwy ambiguous one  , Dick probably would have liked it, but I found it a bit failure-of-imagination.

On balance , I have never seen a Dick concept done better, this is a fairly sophisticated ‘woven’ alternate universe story, I liked it, am hard put to know why it did , sort of, well commercially!

I think as this science fiction it is better than HBO’s Westworld, which is a bit of a muddle.


----------



## ctg (Jan 2, 2020)

Al Jackson said:


> I think as this science fiction it is better than HBO’s Westworld, which is a bit of a muddle.



That is very true. WestWorld is very hard to understand, because you don't get to see the outside world. Not before next season. But in the science-fiction terms this series is harder. It does not explain how the main character can travel between worlds, but it establish some sort of science around it, and it even manages to present a science model about the whole, which is quite extraordinary.


----------



## Al Jackson (Jan 2, 2020)

ctg said:


> That is very true. WestWorld is very hard to understand, because you don't get to see the outside world. Not before next season. But in the science-fiction terms this series is harder. It does not explain how the main character can travel between worlds, but it establish some sort of science around it, and it even manages to present a science model about the whole, which is quite extraordinary.


I thought Westworld on HBO is a better story than Crichton's 1973 film, which I found to be kind of thin with a McGuffin , like Solyent Green , that becomes the only remembered plot point.... the HBO story is more interesting back at Delos but 2nd season turned into a lot of tap dancing.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 20, 2020)

Just finished it today. Season one was excellent, season two kept me watching... But ultimately I'm disappointed with this show and wouldn't recommend it. The whole alternative-worlds bit, so eerie in PKD's book, just got both more trivial and, paradoxically, more preposterous as the show progressed. In the end, they had no idea what to do with it, and the whole conceit turned out to be essentially incidental to the main plot. It would have been better to keep the show a strict alternate-history, than to promise so much that they couldn't deliver. As for the ending: they're coming? Who? Why? From where? And I suppose they were all properly triaged to make sure they're not still alive in this reality (or else, you know, they'd explode), or has that rule been suddenly suspended without notice? Of course, the show provides no answers to any of these questions. And not because it leaves us with any kind of intriguing mystery, but because the writers couldn't think of a proper way to end it and opted for a totally empty gesture, that does not grow out of anything the show had shown or hinted at before. It's pure humbug.


----------



## Don (May 20, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> Just finished it today. Season one was excellent, season two kept me watching... But ultimately I'm disappointed with this show and wouldn't recommend it. The whole alternative-worlds bit, so eerie in PKD's book, just got both more trivial and, paradoxically, more preposterous as the show progressed.



The PSA and Rocky Mountain settings entertained me until season three, the Reich settings, not so much. This is my favorite PKD novel because the eponymous man lives in my home state of Wyoming. The Grasshopper Lies Heavy also enchants me. It's from a Biblical verse about your second childhood. It doesn't refer to a fun time as many people seem to think. Rather, it's a terrifying time when you become afraid of falling down stairwells again, as you feared them in your childhood.


----------



## Dave (May 20, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> As for the ending: they're coming? Who? Why? From where?


I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that I thought it had turned into the TV show_ Sliders_, but I didn't expand more upon that because I didn't wish to spoil. In the later series' of that show, the Kromaggs, who had conquered one alternate universe, then travelled to parallel universes to conquer those too. The PKD novel never had a time-travel machine and its introduction in this means that you can substitute Nazis for Kromaggs.

The one difference in this story was that to time travel to an alternate universe, you first needed to have died there..


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 20, 2020)

Dave said:


> I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that I thought it had turned into the TV show_ Sliders_, but I didn't expand more upon that because I didn't wish to spoil. In the later series' of that show, the Kromaggs, who had conquered one alternate universe, then travelled to parallel universes to conquer those too. The PKD novel never had a time-travel machine and its introduction in this means that you can substitute Nazis for Kromaggs.
> 
> The one difference in this story was that to time travel to an alternate universe, you first needed to have died there..


Except that in TMITHC the Nazis never actually do any conquering of alternate words, just talk about it occasionally, and the people who come through the tunnel during literally the last minute of the show aren't Nazis, but just... random people. From somewhere.


----------



## ctg (May 20, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> the last minute of the show aren't Nazis, but just... random people. From somewhere.



I thought they were the people who were eaten by the experiment. My mind explained that they'd been suspended in between the worlds. Maybe that is a Disney ending?


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 20, 2020)

ctg said:


> I thought they were the people who were eaten by the experiment. My mind explained that they'd been suspended in between the worlds. Maybe that is a Disney ending?


Those people just died. We got to see their mangled remains. Maybe you're thinking of the end of _Close Encounters_, several shots of which were essentially copied on the ending of TMITHC.


----------



## ctg (May 20, 2020)

> Are they coming from all parts of the multiverse? Are they alt-world versions of those who died in Juliana’s world?
> 
> “There was a considerable amount of discussion between myself and my partner [director and executive producer] Daniel Percival, as well as others, in terms of how much we wanted to be explanatory in that final scene,” Scarpa says. “Part of the intention was to invite the audience to have their own interpretation of what they’re seeing on screen.”
> 
> However, he does reveal something. “What should be clear to any viewer is that the portal is, essentially, open and it is going to remain open. In effect, what that means is two worlds have become one. There’s a doorway from one world into the next, and now people can move freely between them. What does that mean? You have ordinary people, in some interpretations, who have been called to this event, who are moving through the portal, and these two worlds are going to be fused.”











						'The Man in the High Castle' ending explained: Series boss unpacks the 'ambiguous' finale
					

Showrunner David Scarpa breaks down that final scene.




					ew.com


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 20, 2020)

ctg said:


> 'The Man in the High Castle' ending explained: Series boss unpacks the 'ambiguous' finale
> 
> 
> Showrunner David Scarpa breaks down that final scene.
> ...


On this supposed "explanation" I rather agree with this writer: Total Nonsense: The Ending Of 'The Man In High Castle' Explained


----------



## Dave (May 20, 2020)

Well I obviously didn't understand the ending either. I thought they were refugees from other worlds.


----------

