# Villeneuve's Dune (2019)



## Al Jackson

This has kind of gotten by me. Looks like  Denis  Villeneuve is casting* Dune* and I saw somewhere mention of production start date of March.
Now not surprised *, Dune *, should have more buzz appeal than* Blade Runner 2049** did. (Tho Villeneuve says in interviews that Alcon did marketing surveys for that film and they were positive). Even tho* Blade Runner 2049 *slumped at the box office, I can see Legendary funding him, studios like directors who have been able to bring off a difficult big budget film (no matter the box office).
Am a bit surprised because this is going to be a_ Big Budget_ film , in fact, supposed to be two films. Welp  Villeneuve has shown that he is serious about film narrative and production values. It will be very interesting since *Dune* is a good high level Space Opera ( I am not taken by any of the sequels either by Herbert or his Son).

*Nearing the anniversary of *Blade Runner 2049*, it is the only film from 2017 that sticks in my mind , and that was among some very good films.)


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## Vince W

I think Villeneuve could do a very good job as long as he ignores the blunder twins. Brian Herbert has been given producer credits and he has been fairly vocal on twitter about the progress of the project and how he has been giving notes. Now on the surface, this makes me very uneasy, but Villeneuve is a *Dune* fan and I think he would have hired someone to look at the notes and then ignore them.

Villeneuve has proven that he can cope with serious films and *Dune* will be taken very seriously by its fanbase. At this point, I'm more interested in what sort of look the films will have. As what you will about the film, but Lynch's version was gorgeous and is still the benchmark in my mind.


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## Boneman

I'd love to think that Villeneuve will do a great job, and stick to the story Frank Herbert told. The blunder twins (great description...) should be led by the nose that their input is really appreciated, and then the final cut shows that it's been completely ignored. Fingers crossed, here.


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## Rodders

I’m a big fan of David Lynch’s interpretation of Dune and still rate it after all of this time. After seeing and really enjoying Villeneuve’s Blade Runner 2049 I think he will do a great job. It’ll be visual and I suspect that he’ll try and do the book justice. 

That said, has any preproduction artwork been released? I’d love a sneak peak.


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## Robert Zwilling

I like the first movie. It probably works better if you are familiar with the story.  I remember it as a series of fantastic snapshots, each one accompanied by dialog that explained that scene but didn't lead you to the next scene, a style I like. 

Graphic highlights of a reading experience. I looked to see what online content was out about the new movie and found the funniest review of the opening efforts of the remaking of Dune in ars Techinca. The article starts out with a picture from the sci fi channel series that looks like it was made from a crowd of hand painted mini gi joe figures. I know because I tried it once digitally to make a book cover. Thought the hand painting with a mouse would make a difference, it didn't. 

Strange omen. Reading on I see that Brian Herbert is contributing with Kevin Anderson joining in. He is definitely able to get stuff out into the market place. Maybe there will be more coming, the remaking of the Dune series. Two movies planned, each half the story, but if the movies contain extraneous material that cuts the story short it then ends up the same as Lynch's movie, more like an overview but with a very long intermission.


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## Anthoney

Rodders said:


> I’m a big fan of David Lynch’s interpretation of Dune



I could never get past the sonic weapons.  Parts were well done but that decision changed the very nature of the Fremen and what they became.  That puts the TV version ahead in my opinion.  

Maybe this guy can do a better job.  Maybe he's the Peter Jackson of Dune.


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## Al Jackson

Anthoney said:


> I could never get past the sonic weapons.  Parts were well done but that decision changed the very nature of the Fremen and what they became.  That puts the TV version ahead in my opinion.
> 
> Maybe this guy can do a better job.  Maybe he's the Peter Jackson of Dune.



I also did not like the comic book broad comedy interpretation of the Harkonnen in Lynch's dune.
And they did not come over very well in the TV version. The mini series had some good cast members but was hurt by some lackluster actors in secondary roles and some bad eastern  European actors in other roles. 
I also found John Harrison defeated by the narrative in a different way than Lynch was. Even tho some of the VFX were better Lynch sure out classed Harrison in production design. Some of the costume design in that mini series were so bad they should have been burned on the spot and not used!!!


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## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> I think Villeneuve could do a very good job as long as he ignores the blunder twins. Brian Herbert has been given producer credits and he has been fairly vocal on twitter about the progress of the project and how he has been giving notes. Now on the surface, this makes me very uneasy, but Villeneuve is a *Dune* fan and I think he would have hired someone to look at the notes and then ignore them.
> 
> Villeneuve has proven that he can cope with serious films and *Dune* will be taken very seriously by its fanbase. At this point, I'm more interested in what sort of look the films will have. As what you will about the film, but Lynch's version was gorgeous and is still the benchmark in my mind.



You are talking about  Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson ? Does Brian do any of the writing? I read two of those and thought they were going to be ok, but narrative goes off the rails eventually so could not read any more. Also, I was very impressed with Dune in the 1960s, but was totally underwhelmed by Herbert's sequels. I found *Dune Messiah* dull,* Children of Dune *a little more interesting, but premise of* God Emperor of Dune* silly, I could not finish it!

One thing about Villeneuve he sure showed a great eye for production design in Blade Runner 2049. Also that was a good cast. Lynch's long suit with his* Dune* was not only the excellent production design but also the cast, he must have been a long time fan of some of the finest actors in the world who appear in the film.
I don't know a better casting for Lady Jessica than  Francesca Annis …    Brad Dourif would go on to win  an Oscar,  Virginia Madsen an Oscar nomination, Alicia Witt a successful adult actress , I thought Kyle MacLachlan was ok but a bit wooden and still is.... funny see that 1984 film and Patrick Stewart these days ….


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## Al Jackson

I also wonder what the budget will be?  Legendary Pictures sure has the money and an odd collection of past films , from 300 to Sucker Punch to Dark Knight to Godzilla to Jurassic World …. it is a strange mix. Looks like it will be shot in Budapest. *Blade Runner 2049* was shot there for north of 150 million which seemed like a lot for a country that gives you a break. You know the 1984 Dune was considered a box office disappointment. I wonder if the same may be in order here? There is a rabid fan base for the novel but is there one for a film?
I figured that . *Blade Runner 2049* would make back is costs , on release, and it did not, which still surprises me. We shall see.


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## Brian G Turner

I did enjoy the cinematography in _Bladerunner 2049_ - I just thought it was lacking in story. The slow pace and huge visuals were immensely atmospheric. If he can do something similar with _Dune _then that would certainly be welcome - though it remains to be seen what he can salvage from the sequels to _Dune_, if he's able to get that far, as really there's not much plot to them!


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## Stephen Palmer

Rodders said:


> I’m a big fan of David Lynch’s interpretation of Dune and still rate it after all of this time. After seeing and really enjoying Villeneuve’s Blade Runner 2049 I think he will do a great job. It’ll be visual and I suspect that he’ll try and do the book justice.



It's much under-rated imo. (the original _Dune, _that is.)
For visuals alone, it's fantastic. And I think it does the bones of the story pretty good justice.


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## Vince W

Stephen Palmer said:


> It's much under-rated imo. (the original _Dune, _that is.)
> For visuals alone, it's fantastic. And I think it does the bones of the story pretty good justice.


The left femur and right clavicle, yes.


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## Cathbad

I don't understand the praise for that first _Dune_ movie.  It was painful to watch.


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## Vince W

Cathbad said:


> I don't understand the praise for that first _Dune_ movie.  It was painful to watch.


It's because Lynch got a lot right. Unfortunately, he got more wrong. But that isn't entirely his fault. The studio interfered more than needed, and trying to fit the entire story in less than 2 1/2 hours is frankly impossible. Alterations were inevitable. They were just the wrong alterations.


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## Al Jackson

Brian G Turner said:


> I did enjoy the cinematography in _Bladerunner 2049_ - I just thought it was lacking in story. The slow pace and huge visuals were immensely atmospheric. If he can do something similar with _Dune _then that would certainly be welcome - though it remains to be seen what he can salvage from the sequels to _Dune_, if he's able to get that far, as really there's not much plot to them!



I felt the charm of *Blade Runner 2049* is how it improved the story of *Blade Runner (*1984) , it made Deckard and Rachael's story have more meaning , clever hooks back into the original. I also like the elaboration and very interesting characters.

As to* Dune*,  there is a Blivit problem (too much prose narrative to pound into even two 2 hour movies, even two three hour movies!). The TV series did a better job at this except that , to me, it felt uninspired. For all it's faults the Lynch version was epic I can't say that for the Harrison version.


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## Vince W

Harrison wasted too much time and money on hats.


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## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> Harrison wasted too much time and money on hats.


Yes! (and the Sardaukar dress uniforms are silly)


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## Al Jackson

Who ever did the costume design seemed totally lost!!


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## Al Jackson

Lunch's *Dune * had class.






By the by in the scene above Virginia Madsen is bout to die! She had food poisoning when shooting that scene so bad she actually has a stool under her dress to sit on if she about to faint.


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## Anthoney

Al Jackson said:


> there is a Blivit problem



Bonus points for the use of blivit.


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## Robert Zwilling

Cathbad said:


> I don't understand the praise for that first _Dune_ movie. It was painful to watch.



One of the things that makes me like something for lack of a better way of saying it, is the effect it had the first time around. I find that for some products the appreciation factor is based on what else was available at the time. When something first comes out and is covering ground that hasn't been trampled yet, it has a better impact or more lasting impact. It looks different for some odd reason. The memories have some sort of perspective while other memories are just plain flat.

That was the first Dune I saw, and the others came later. Even though the later stuff usually has a better technical presentation I'm not particularly swayed by that. Once you wipe out the technological glory of the current operations, you are left with the initial impact, the story, and the actors. 

For are a really concrete example, I find the first Star Trek series to be more likely to be watched than anything that came afterwards. Maybe the glory wore off as time went on. A bigger production is not necessarily a better production of the original idea. It probably cheats by bringing up memories I don't even remember. The Star Trek movies are different. I equally like some of the old ones as well as some of the news ones and others I'm not going to watch.


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## Cathbad

Robert Zwilling said:


> That was the first Dune I saw, and the others came later


I haven't seen any other _Dune_ productions.

When I arrived at the theater to see this movie, they handed me a flyer as I entered.  It explained terms the characters would be using.  I did not take that as a good sign.  

Then I was tortured by being forced to listen to several characters thinking to themselves - further explaining events/occurrences, because they had decided to do the book in under 2 hours.  All couldn't be explained in that time limit, necessitating people talking to themselves.

I agree, visually, the movie was fantastic!  But I would much rather have watched actors act out their parts, instead of _thinking_ them out.


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## Vince W

Cathbad said:


> I haven't seen any other _Dune_ productions.
> 
> When I arrived at the theater to see this movie, they handed me a flyer as I entered.  It explained terms the characters would be using.  I did not take that as a good sign.
> 
> Then I was tortured by being forced to listen to several characters thinking to themselves - further explaining events/occurrences, because they had decided to do the book in under 2 hours.  All couldn't be explained in that time limit, necessitating people talking to themselves.
> 
> I agree, visually, the movie was fantastic!  But I would much rather have watched actors act out their parts, instead of _thinking_ them out.


I heard about the handouts in some cinemas. They didn't do that where I went to see it, but I was reading Dune for the second time and had my copy with me.

Lynch's story was doomed to failure with the time limit he was forced to work with. I think Villeneuve may have to convince the studio to extend to three films once he starts shooting.


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## Cathbad

Vince W said:


> Lynch's story was doomed to failure with the time limit he was forced to work with.


Exactly.  Pushing it into less than 2 hours absolutely ruined it.



Vince W said:


> I think Villeneuve may have to convince the studio to extend to three films once he starts shooting.


I hope he succeeds at convincing them!

At the time of the first movie, just before it came out, I and my gaming group were discussing this.  Being a time before trilogies (lol), we thought it could be done as a six-hour movie, with two intermissions.  Heck, besides providing enough time for the story, think of the Concession sales!


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## Robert Zwilling

Cathbad said:


> I haven't seen any other _Dune_ productions.



For something entirely different you could try a viewing of Jodorowsky's Dune documentary, it's all about a Dune movie that was never made in the 1970's. The graphics are good and the ideas go from I don't know about that, to yup, to perplexing, and many of the ideas were put into use in other projects.


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## Boneman

Kyle Mclachan spoiled the film for me... I could take Sting in a G-string (should that be 'on a G-string'?), but Paul Atreides was 15 when the film opened (small for his age, the Reverend Mother said) and in walked a gallumping adult, who showed none of Paul's sensitivities. 

With the advances in CGI, I hope there's the right balance between epic and story, and please God, it doesn't turn into another Dark Tower, because they alter the storylines...


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## Overread

Al Jackson said:


> Who ever did the costume design seemed totally lost!!
> 
> View attachment 46981


I recall seeing about 5 mins of the TV series and yeah the clothing and prop design was just really odd. I saw it and thought "this isn't Dune, this is, well I don't know what it is but you don't wear silly hats like THAT in Dune! I think whoever did it certainly didn't get the vibe or theme or feel of Dune; that or they didn't make anything and had to raid the prop storage cupboard for stuff. 



The original Dune Film was messy in terms of plot and pacing and honestly if you'd not read the books beforehand it likely didn't make "total" sense. However it captured the feel, the smell, the look and the style of Dune. You could smell the sweat puss and ooze of the Baron*; you can see the noble class in the dress of the old houses and the Emperor. You can see the feral nature of the Fremen etc.... The model designs were also first class - the Navigator is some strange beast monster and its transport of its ship in folding space has all the magic and mysterious science that the early Star Trek films had. A property of that era of cinema in that sci-fi often had much magic to its edge and appearance as pure fantasy. 

It is like Lord of the Rings films - it doesn't get it all right but it evokes the feel and style and setting itself. It brings the world to life in a visual way that blends with many peoples mental impressions. Sure there are differences, but most would be happy seeing those self same designs appear once more in a new film with better placing and timing - esp if allowed by having several films to spread the story out properly. 

*although I would say he always appears too slim in the film


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## picklematrix

Villenueve's films have been fantastic so far. Enemy in particular. I really hope this gets made, and is a big success at the box office. That would result in a few more great space opera adaptations.


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## Al Jackson

There is one story about the 1st Dune film I don't see repeated much. Ridley Scott was set to do Dune. Scott and screenwriter  Rudolph Wurlitzer turned in a screenplay (the 3rd one) that had Paul and his mother Jessica in an incestuous relationship! Alia would have been his daughter! Cinefantastique back in 1984 reported that film producer  Rafaella Delaurentis was livid and fired Scott on the spot. All these years later all one sees or hears from Scott is that because his brother committed suicide at that time he quit the film.


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## Al Jackson

Overread said:


> It is like Lord of the Rings films - it doesn't get it all right but it evokes the feel and style and setting itself. It brings the world to life in a visual way that blends with many peoples mental impressions. Sure there are differences, but most would be happy seeing those self same designs appear once more in a new film with better placing and timing - esp if allowed by having several films to spread the story out properly.



Lord of the Rings really worked! Peter Jackson cut stuff like Tom Bombadil and the Souring of the Shire , jazzed up Fellowship of the Ring (that novel is way too slow) and other wise solved the Blivit problem! 
Lord of the Rings , also, film wise , the production values have density and attention to detail. It has a richness that feels lived-in. Get the same feeling from Game of Thrones. Lynch achieved the same thing except it all goes by too fast.


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## Narkalui

Cathbad said:


> Exactly.  Pushing it into less than 2 hours absolutely ruined it.
> 
> 
> I hope he succeeds at convincing them!
> 
> At the time of the first movie, just before it came out, I and my gaming group were discussing this.  Being a time before trilogies (lol), we thought it could be done as a six-hour movie, with two intermissions.  Heck, besides providing enough time for the story, think of the Concession sales!



imagine the state of the lavatories right after the second intermission


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## Stephen Palmer

Vince W said:


> It's because Lynch got a lot right. Unfortunately, he got more wrong. But that isn't entirely his fault. The studio interfered more than needed, and trying to fit the entire story in less than 2 1/2 hours is frankly impossible. Alterations were inevitable. They were just the wrong alterations.



I think it's more the other way. The tale meanders a bit, yes, but on the whole it's pretty good I've always thought. Visually it's amazing. The Lynch-esque body horror isn't too over the top, but it horrible where it needs to be. Sting is rubbish - of course. But overall, I like it a lot. It's one of very few non-animation DVDs that I have!


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## Stephen Palmer

Oh, yes - and the other thing (alluded to above) is that it conveys "epic".


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## Al Jackson

Cathbad said:


> Exactly.  Pushing it into less than 2 hours absolutely ruined it.
> 
> 
> I hope he succeeds at convincing them!
> 
> At the time of the first movie, just before it came out, I and my gaming group were discussing this.  Being a time before trilogies (lol), we thought it could be done as a six-hour movie, with two intermissions.  Heck, besides providing enough time for the story, think of the Concession sales!



It is really too bad there is no room for the* road-show* really just reserved seat showings.* Ben Hur, Lawarence* *of Arabia , Spartacus , others* all succeeded in that format. A three or four hour film with an intermission just seems gone forever. Even knowing how exhibiters work these days it is really too bad, I really enjoyed those movies.


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## Al Jackson

One thing about Lynch's *Dune* …. Lynch is a serious film maker … I don't really count Eraserhead …. this was his second real studio movie, he had done a fine job with Elephant Man …. so over the years he really came to regret his involvement with* Dune.*... 











Lot of info on *Dune* *Info* on You Tube.

DuneInfo


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## BAYLOR

Al Jackson said:


> One thing about Lynch's *Dune* …. Lynch is a serious film maker … I don't really count Eraserhead …. this was his second real studio movie, he had done a fine job with Elephant Man …. so over the years he really came to regret his involvement with* Dune.*...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lot of info on *Dune* *Info* on You Tube.
> 
> DuneInfo



his 1984 film was a valiant effort.


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## Cathbad

This is how it should have went:

Producer:  "We want you to do an adaption of *DUNE*, in a two-hour film."

Any Living Director:  "Um... no."


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## Vince W

Cathbad said:


> This is how it should have went:
> 
> Producer:  "We want you to do an adaption of *DUNE*, in a two-hour film."
> 
> Any Living Director:  "*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!* Um... no. *HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...*"


FTFY.

You forgot the laughter.


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## Cathbad

Vince W said:


> FTFY.
> 
> You forgot the laughter.


TY for the correction!


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## BAYLOR

I may have try again , to read the sequels.


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## Al Jackson

BAYLOR said:


> I may have try again , to read the sequels.



Once was enough to hold me a lifetime.
I don't know why I don't hear more criticism of the sequels that Frank Herbert wrote.


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## Narkalui

I tried the first sequel. I felt it was a significant drop in quality. I prefer to think of Dune as a stand alone novel and the rest as an 'expanded universe'


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## Cathbad

I enjoyed *God Emperor of Dune*.  Not as good as *Dune*, but still enjoyable.


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## BAYLOR

I started to read *Dune Messiah* and gave up on it. I found meandering and lacking.


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## Rodders

I really struggled with Dune Messiah. I tried to read it once in the 80's and gave up after about 50 pages in.


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## Vince W

BAYLOR said:


> I started to read *Dune Messiah* and gave up on it. I found meandering and lacking.





Rodders said:


> I really struggled with Dune Messiah. I tried to read it once in the 80's and gave up after about 50 pages in.



I would suggest sticking with it. It's very good by the end. But I'm one of the Jacurutu.


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## Al Jackson

BAYLOR said:


> I started to read *Dune Messiah* and gave up on it. I found meandering and lacking.


Two things were a big disappointment. The first part of the novel gives us the off-stage story of Paul's Jihad and then the court intrigue of conspiracy to dethrone Paul.
1. I thought for god' sake the whole Jihad story would have been great but Herbert just kills it by never bringing it onstage., I mean REALLY onstage.
2. The conspiracy has the dullest conclusion with a blind Paul taking off for hermit ville , nuts! I read the whole thing and thought Herbert had totally screwed the story. Never again the novel is a stinkerooooo!
I can see what people see in it except for a bit of return to the epic of Dune, but then it goes non-epic , do not see what people like about this novel.


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## Al Jackson

So news today that Dave Bautista has been cast in Villeneuve's Dune, as “Beast” Rabban.
So things progress. Had seen a news squib that Villeneuve was to start production in March this year, but if he is still casting , I wonder.
Seems this version of Dune is all set  , I wonder what budget Legendary has for it?
Villeneuve  proved he could handle a big budget with 2049 , studios open their purses for experience.


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## Boneman

Fingers are so crossed.... been disappointed with Ender's Game, Ready Player One, The Dark Tower, so my expectation is not terrifically high at the moment!


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## Vince W

This sounds like pointless name casting. Rabban is a tertiary character at best and seen only briefly in the book. Better to select an unknown and put your money somewhere else. It makes me think they're going to expand Rabban's character for some inexplicable reason. Smells like Brian may have had a hand in this, and if so I'll pass on the whole thing.


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## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> This sounds like pointless name casting. Rabban is a tertiary character at best and seen only briefly in the book. Better to select an unknown and put your money somewhere else. It makes me think they're going to expand Rabban's character for some inexplicable reason. Smells like Brian may have had a hand in this, and if so I'll pass on the whole thing.



It is likely that Bautista will play the tertiary character as is, I am pretty sure Villeneuve  , well sure,  that the  Harkonnen  are not going to be comic strip characters like Lynch did in his film.


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## Al Jackson

Boneman said:


> Fingers are so crossed.... been disappointed with Ender's Game, Ready Player One, The Dark Tower, so my expectation is not terrifically high at the moment!



What did  you think of Ender's Game? I thought as an adaptation it was a 1000 times better than they did for Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers. 
They sure lined up quite a cast!
Asa Butterfield 
Harrison Ford 
Hailee Steinfeld 
Viola Davis
Ben Kingsley
I thought it was a bit lackluster some of the adaptation should have been more straight forward leaving out some of the complexities of the novel if you are going to make it a less than 2 hour film. 
I felt it should have done better and surprised it did not.


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## Vince W

I do hope we have a Baron free of skin ailments and the need to rhyme.


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## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> I do hope we have a Baron free of skin ailments and the need to rhyme.


That stuff was pure Lynch-jazz. He stuck in quirky stuff just to amuse himself. 
Now I didn't mind the twisting around of the Space Guild navigators but then he sticks in goof ball brain transfusions like stuff , totally unneeded. 
The quirky Mentats was over done.
The Weirding Module was overthinking on Lynch's part.
I wonder if an older Lynch would have been more sophisticated? From what he says these days he would not have taken on Dune at all.


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## Overread

Al Jackson said:


> What did  you think of Ender's Game? I thought as an adaptation it was a 1000 times better than they did for Heinlein's Star Ship Troopers.



Personally my issue with Enders Game is that its like a fair few films that try to push a book into one film. Lack of actual development and a forced plot. You can certainly see all the signs of a solid story in there, but they had a time limit and a lot to cover and thus things felt pushed. They also didn't really go into enough detail as to why they had to pick kids to train nor why they were deploying them to control real battles whilst they were still kids. It was a whole plot area that I think got lost because they chose to focus on the team building in the sports game instead. Granted its a hard plot to carry, esp when we didn't see any of the mature adult generals and leaders doing any war-time control of their own. 

Starship Troopers on the other hand, whilst utterly butchering the original story; was at least a pretty well developed entity and story in its own right.


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## Anthoney

The only book to movie adaptation I hated worse than the 1984 Dune was the 1997 Starship Troopers.


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## Al Jackson

Overread said:


> Starship Troopers on the other hand, whilst utterly butchering the original story; was at least a pretty well developed entity and story in its own right.



As far as I know a new adaptation of Starship Troopers is still in development. Tho not much news in recent times.


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## Boneman

Al Jackson said:


> What did  you think of Ender's Game? .



Asa Butterfield looked way too old, and way too tall, he didn't have Ender's gravitas, or convey what Ender was going through, for me. Definitely better than Starship troopers, I'd forgotten that!


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## Al Jackson

Boneman said:


> Asa Butterfield looked way too old, and way too tall, he didn't have Ender's gravitas, or convey what Ender was going through, for me. Definitely better than Starship troopers, I'd forgotten that!


It show how hard it is to adapt a work of prose and Ender's Game is not a 1000 pages. 
Well their heart was in the right place they did not dumb it down or comic book it up it is a serious  … well... space opera. Which is what Starship Troopers only approximated.
It will be interesting to see what Villeneuve does with Dune because he is more serious minded than Lynch or Verhoeven.

You know there is earlier military science fiction that could have been done before Ender's Game, namely The Forever War , tho it has been knocking around in development for a long time now!


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## Rodders

Trouble is you have to make it accessible to attract a wider audience, which always means that the more subtle elements of the story will be missed out from the book. Had the movie been a success missing elements could be added to a sequel. 

For what its worth, i though the movie was pretty entertaining. No where near as good as the book though.


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## Overread

It's not just about making it accessible; its also about having enough time to draw the audience into a lot more subplots and subtle themes. Sometimes you just run out of time and films that try to squeeze it all in can feel hollow because everything is rushed and cut short. A few of the DC/Marvel films feel like that (eg Suicide Squad) where they are trying to push way too much into too little time and no single element gets enough attention. They can sometimes work for existing fans because they can fill in the gaps, but for new fans who haven't read the source material it can feel very hollow and lacking.


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## Al Jackson

Rodders said:


> Trouble is you have to make it accessible to attract a wider audience, which always means that the more subtle elements of the story will be missed out from the book. Had the movie been a success missing elements could be added to a sequel.
> 
> For what its worth, i though the movie was pretty entertaining. No where near as good as the book though.



Gravity and The Martian did well without being comic booked up ….. my sense of things is that Villeneuve will not mess with Dune in that way ….. Then he made a perfectly good Blade Runner movie and it did not do well.

One recalls that the 1984 Dune did not do well at the box office.


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## Al Jackson

More Dune casting news today, I am gonna wait till there is more, but I note The Hollywood Reporter is saying that production begins in March.


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## Boneman

One of the things that truly irked me about the 1984 film (apart from the adult Kyle MacLachlan) was the way the Mentats were portrayed - drinking purple juice to enhance their brains and being so stupid they ended up with a butterfly on their lips. Freddie Jones as Thufir looked like a tramp, and I'm sure he reincarnated as Radaghast the Brown in the Hobbit....


----------



## Al Jackson

Charlotte Rampling Joins Dune as Reverend Mother Mohiam.

An excellent actress. Tho not the caliber of Siân Phillips , she will be good but I would have picked someone else , my choices would have been Cate Blanchett or even Meryl Streep.


----------



## Vince W

Rampling is a good choice I think. She looks like the Mohaim I had in my head when reading the books. Although my first choice would have been Maggie Smith.


----------



## Ray Pullar

Since Rampling starred in Zardoz she's obviously down with this kind of material.


----------



## Boneman

Ooh... that could work. Not sure Meryl Streep would give the role the gravitas it needs, but that's probably because she's done so much comedy recently. (If you can call Mamma Mia a comedy...)


----------



## Vince W

Poe Dameron = Duke Leto? This feels like Brian's influence. I hope I'm wrong.

Oscar Isaac in Talks to Join Timothee Chalamet in ‘Dune’ Reboot


----------



## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> Poe Dameron = Duke Leto? This feels like Brian's influence. I hope I'm wrong.
> 
> Oscar Isaac in Talks to Join Timothee Chalamet in ‘Dune’ Reboot



Seems confirmed:

Oscar Isaac Joining Denis Villeneuve's 'Dune'

A very good actor.


----------



## Boneman

I love Rebecca Ferguson!!! Perfect as Lady Jessica.


----------



## Al Jackson

We now have House Atreides (tho a few support characters are needed)

No word on House Corrino yet.

Part of House  Harkonen.


----------



## Boneman

See what I mean? Paul was supposed to be small for his age and fifteen. Kyle looks about thirty. Timothee at least looks younger,


----------



## J-WO

Such a good cast lined up. The fact it's avoiding truly major stars in favour of accurate casting gives me hope.


----------



## Al Jackson

Zendaya  as Chani


----------



## Vince W

I would love the Fremen to look like this for at least a few of the outdoor scenes.


----------



## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> I would love the Fremen to look like this for at least a few of the outdoor scenes.



I thought they did a good job in Lynch's Dune. The Stillsuits were a bit minimal but looked utilitarian. In the SyFy series they looked budget constrained. Very curious what _Villeneuve_ does he has an eye for costume and production values.


----------



## Al Jackson

Javier Bardem as Stilgar. That's ok.


----------



## Vince W

I'm okay with Bardem.


----------



## J-WO

I'm so getting hyped about this. But I shouldn't because hype is the mind-killer...


----------



## Vince W

Good call here I think.

Josh Brolin Joins Timothee Chalamet in Star-Studded ‘Dune’ Reboot


----------



## Al Jackson

Brolin will portray Gurney Halleck.  
A famous Halleck ..... below.....(man that movie had a heck of cast!)


----------



## Vince W

How will Brolin look carrying a war-pug?


----------



## Scookey

Isn't the financial flop of Blade Runner 2049 very much in keeping with the original?
Would love to see a new Dune film. The potential is excellent. Let's hope the reality is too.


----------



## Boneman

Excellent -  Brolin is rough round the edges, which Patrick Stewart (whom I adore as an actor) never was.


----------



## Vince W

Brolin isn't grizzled enough or artistic enough for a character like Gurney Halleck. Stewart fit the role perfectly of a poet-troubadour-warrior.


----------



## Al Jackson

Jason Momoa will play Duncan Idaho.
An odd pick there , tho I like Momoa.


----------



## J-WO

I've seen reports of Josh Brolin as Gurney Halleck and (wait for it) Jason Mamoa as Duncan Idaho.

I can work with that.
(EDIT: Oops! Just seen you guys already know this!)


----------



## Al Jackson

J-WO said:


> I've seen reports of Josh Brolin as Gurney Halleck and (wait for it) Jason Mamoa as Duncan Idaho.
> 
> I can work with that.
> (EDIT: Oops! Just seen you guys already know this!)



Supposedly principal photography starts in two weeks. 
Maybe we will hear more.


----------



## Boneman

Vince W said:


> Brolin isn't grizzled enough or artistic enough for a character like Gurney Halleck. Stewart fit the role perfectly of a poet-troubadour-warrior.



Patrick Stewart was way too smooth, too polished around the edges. Here's the first time we see Gurney: 

The door across from Paul banged open and an ugly lump of a man lurched through it, preceded by a handful of weapons. [...] Paul watched the ugly rolling man set himself back in motion, veer toward the training table with the weapons...

Patrick was neither ugly, nor rolling. And they didn't give him the inkvine scar on his face, that Beast Rabban put there...


----------



## Vince W

Boneman said:


> Patrick Stewart was way too smooth, too polished around the edges. Here's the first time we see Gurney:
> 
> The door across from Paul banged open and an ugly lump of a man lurched through it, preceded by a handful of weapons. [...] Paul watched the ugly rolling man set himself back in motion, veer toward the training table with the weapons...
> 
> Patrick was neither ugly, nor rolling. And they didn't give him the inkvine scar on his face, that Beast Rabban put there...


Absolutely correct. Hollywood would never have allowed someone like that on screen as a hero figure at that time. However, Stewart had the internal characteristics very well. You can see him quoting literature and poetry while writing a song for his baliset and gutting you like a fish all at once.


----------



## Vince W

Al Jackson said:


> Jason Momoa will play Duncan Idaho.
> An odd pick there , tho I like Momoa.



Wrong choice here. Very wrong. Momoa is not a great actor by any means.


----------



## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> Wrong choice here. Very wrong. Momoa is not a great actor by any means.


This would have been more like it, tho a bit hyped.


----------



## Vince W

Al Jackson said:


> This would have been more like it, tho a bit hyped.
> 
> View attachment 50073


I assume you're referring to Gurney Halleck and not Duncan Idaho. But yes, that looks like that rogue Gurney.


----------



## J-WO

Boneman said:


> Patrick Stewart was way too smooth, too polished around the edges.



Stewart had to leap into the role a week before filming. They were really stuck for options. They were gonna use that ex-WW2 guy who was in loads of old Hollywood movies playing sergeants, but when he turned up it was clear to Lynch and everyone alcoholism had truly wrecked him, poor sod.


----------



## Narkalui

Trevor Howard? David Niven? Oliver Reed?


----------



## Al Jackson

Vince W said:


> I assume you're referring to Gurney Halleck and not Duncan Idaho. But yes, that looks like that rogue Gurney.


Yeah Halleck, this seems to be by artist Bruno Gauthier Leblanc, he did a number of concepts, some seem to lean heavy on the 1984 movie, some look great but a bit to baroque. In fact baroque seems to influence a good bit of Dune concept art I see.... like this... great looking but too much going on:


----------



## Al Jackson

Al Jackson said:


> This would have been more like it, tho a bit hyped.
> 
> View attachment 50073



Halleck by artist Mark Zug. His designs are very distinctive … the characters seem quite odd at times.


----------



## J-WO

Narkalui said:


> Trevor Howard? David Niven? Oliver Reed?


Nah, American guy. Brad Pitt based his performance in Inglorious on him.


----------



## BAYLOR

J-WO said:


> Nah, American guy. Brad Pitt based his performance in Inglorious on him.



I could see Brad Pitt in the Role of Duke Leto . Seriously .


----------



## J-WO

BAYLOR said:


> I could see Brad Pitt in the Role of Duke Leto . Seriously .


There's still room to make him Emperor Of Humanity.


----------



## Narkalui

J-WO said:


> Nah, American guy. Brad Pitt based his performance in Inglorious on him.


Internet won't tell me who this is


----------



## SilentRoamer

Brolin as Halleck seems like perfect casting. Not convinced on Momoa as Idaho, although Momoa does exude a violence and a danger so I will give him a chance as I do like him in other stuff even if he's not the greatest actor. 

He's hot property at the moment as well so will definitely boost viewing figures outside of the normal viewership.


----------



## Boneman

Al Jackson said:


> Halleck by artist Mark Zug. His designs are very distinctive … the characters seem quite odd at times.
> View attachment 50075


That's not Halleck, surely? Reverend Mother Mohiam, wearing the gom jabbar, I think...


----------



## Vince W

SilentRoamer said:


> Brolin as Halleck seems like perfect casting. Not convinced on Momoa as Idaho, although Momoa does exude a violence and a danger so I will give him a chance as I do like him in other stuff even if he's not the greatest actor.
> 
> He's hot property at the moment as well so will definitely boost viewing figures outside of the normal viewership.


What's the point of boosting viewing figures if all it does is have even more people cry WTF! at his performance?


----------



## Vince W

Al Jackson said:


> Yeah Halleck, this seems to be by artist Bruno Gauthier Leblanc, he did a number of concepts, some seem to lean heavy on the 1984 movie, some look great but a bit to baroque. In fact baroque seems to influence a good bit of Dune concept art I see.... like this... great looking but too much going on:
> View attachment 50074


Not too bad but there's more wrong than right. At least she's wearing a cloak. And what about the Eyes of Ibad?


----------



## J-WO

Narkalui said:


> Internet won't tell me who this is



Aldo Ray. He briefly appears in this 8mm footage Sean Young took of Life on the Dune set. It's worth watching just to see Harkonnen's having breakfast at a hotel table.


----------



## Al Jackson

J-WO said:


> Aldo Ray. He briefly appears in this 8mm footage Sean Young took of Life on the Dune set. It's worth watching just to see Harkonnen's having breakfast at a hotel table.



Yeah Aldo Ray was cut finally because he got so hammered he could not perform.
Interesting seeing Raffaella De Laurentiis she was doing all the heavy lifting for the production.
The great  cinemaphotographer Freddie Frances is there I forget about him being part of this production.
That was quite a cast all mugging for the camera.


----------



## Al Jackson

Boneman said:


> That's not Halleck, surely? Reverend Mother Mohiam, wearing the gom jabbar, I think...


Yeah Halleck is an illo back above that.


----------



## J-WO

Al Jackson said:


> Yeah Aldo Ray was cut finally because he got so hammered he could not perform.
> Interesting seeing Raffaella De Laurentiis she was doing all the heavy lifting for the production.
> The great  cinemaphotographer Freddie Frances is there I forget about him being part of this production.
> That was quite a cast all mugging for the camera.


It certainly captures a time in cinema. It reminded me how good those still suits really are.


----------



## Vince W

I occurred to me today why the choice of Momoa is irritating me so much. It's because I always thought that Mandy Patinkin circa Princess Bride would have made a perfect Duncan Idaho. He had the physical ability and was certainly a great actor. It's just a shame that Villeneuve couldn't see that _that_ is the calibre of actor the Idaho character deserves. Not some flash in the pan.


----------



## Boneman

I tend to agree - for some reason I picture Duncan as slim and possessed of a calm exterior, capable of being very refined. His swordplay would be artful, not hack and slash as I picture Momoa. He'd be a better Beast Rabban...


----------



## Vince W

Boneman said:


> I tend to agree - for some reason I picture Duncan as slim and possessed of a calm exterior, capable of being very refined. His swordplay would be artful, not hack and slash as I picture Momoa. He'd be a better Beast Rabban...



This is more in keeping of how I see Duncan.


----------



## Narkalui

I think Mamoa might pleasantly surprise us


----------



## J-WO

Narkalui said:


> I think Mamoa might pleasantly surprise us


It's possible he's never had a role that's challenged his range before. If you've an archetypal physicality, like Mamoa or Monroe, you tend to get the same parts.


----------



## Narkalui

J-WO said:


> It's possible he's never had a role that's challenged his range before. If you've an archetypal physicality, like Mamoa or Monroe, you tend to get the same parts.



Exactly. We already know that the man has some excellent comic timing, why not some presence and complexity too?


----------



## Vince W

Narkalui said:


> Exactly. We already know that the man has some excellent comic timing, why not some presence and complexity too?


You're hoping for some sort of Tom Hanks-like transformation from comedy to drama but I think we're going to end up with a Jar Jar Binks-like transformation instead.


----------



## Narkalui

Fair enough, we shall see


----------



## Vince W

By the juice of sapho they've chosen Piter.

Legendary’s ‘Dune’ Film Adds ‘Ant-Man and the Wasp’ Actor David Dastmalchian


----------



## Al Jackson

Supposedly production began last Friday.... some major characters casting not mentioned yet.


----------



## Narkalui

I believe in Denis Villeneuve


----------



## Vince W

Villeneuve has proven he can make quality films. The real question is will the audience recognise it?


----------



## Rodders

Yep. I will definitely go and see this at the cinema. I adored Blade Runner 2049.


----------



## Vince W

It seems Jason Momoa has finished shooting his scenes as Duncan Idaho for Dune.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1138811286144372736
That's good. It gives Villeneuve plenty of time to recast and reshoot.


----------



## anno

‘So finished Dune, joined Slayer’ could be the diary entry to win all!


----------



## BAYLOR

Ive Been reading a bit more about the proposed films and seen pictures of the actors cast.  They might just pull it off and give us a good film.


----------



## Vince W

We'll know in a little over 15 months.


----------



## Rodders

I think Dune should get it's own thread in the Featured Films section now.


----------



## MikeAnderson

Good luck to Villeneuve; this franchise is the Bermuda Triangle of books to film/tv. People's careers have disappeared trying to get that spice onto screen.


----------



## Vince W

Rodders said:


> I think Dune should get it's own thread in the Featured Films section now.


I second the motion.


----------



## Al Jackson

I don't know how to search this thread....
Did anyone note that principal photography had finished on the first half of Dune , what about 2 months ago now?
Villeneuve had said , somewhere, that there would be, by contract, two Dune films to tell the story.
So this is a puzzle.
What if the 1st half of Villeneuve's Dune is great, best adaptation ever done, but flops at the box office?
Does that mean  Legendary does not produce the 2nd half?


----------



## Narkalui

They owe us two films, if they don't we'll send the boys round!


----------



## Al Jackson

Narkalui said:


> They owe us two films, if they don't we'll send the boys round!


Man! December 2020 is a long way off for a release date... it better make a bundle because it's gonna cost a lot to restart production in 2021.


----------



## Vince W

Al Jackson said:


> I don't know how to search this thread....
> Did anyone note that principal photography had finished on the first half of Dune , what about 2 months ago now?
> Villeneuve had said , somewhere, that there would be, by contract, two Dune films to tell the story.
> So this is a puzzle.
> What if the 1st half of Villeneuve's Dune is great, best adaptation ever done, but flops at the box office?
> Does that mean  Legendary does not produce the 2nd half?


I don't know where I saw it but Villeneuve only agreed to do the film if Legendary committed to both films regardless of the box office takings of the first.

I'd heard they'd finished filming, but I keep hoping they'll see sense and refilm any Duncan Idaho scenes with a new actor. Momoa is . Aqua(Awful)man confirmed this.


----------



## Narkalui

I really liked him as Conan


----------



## Vince W

You might be the only one.


----------



## Narkalui

I'll put it on a tee-shirt


----------



## Vince W

"There can only be one, er... Conan?"


----------



## BAYLOR

Vince W said:


> "There can only be one, er... Conan?"



Arnold did a  good job in the role.

What happen to the Conan tv series thye were talking about?


----------



## Narkalui

Conan The Adventurer? It was basically He-Man


----------



## Vince W

Vanity Fair is giving us our first images of Dune.
A First Look at Timothée Chalamet in Dune

Yesterday was an image of Paul (Timothée Chalamet) on Caladan.






They are doing a four part series. Today we get to see what the stilsuits look like.





I think the suits look great. Much closer to what I saw in my head when reading the book. Great to see the hoods and facemasks.


----------



## Boneman

I do hope that's the older Paul, not the one we meet as the story opens - 13 years old and small for his age, Reverend mother said... He's taller than his mum, in that picture.


----------



## Vince W

Boneman said:


> I do hope that's the older Paul, not the one we meet as the story opens - 13 years old and small for his age, Reverend mother said... He's taller than his mum, in that picture.


Good point. Paul was 15 when the story opens.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Boneman said:


> I do hope that's the older Paul, not the one we meet as the story opens - 13 years old and small for his age, Reverend mother said... He's taller than his mum, in that picture.


I really don't want to deprive you of your hopes, but... to quote from the text of the 1st article:
_"In the shot above, the transport ships descend to take the Atreides leadership to their new destination."_
It looks like the picture concerns the _younger_ Paul.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

Well... it won't be perfect. Let's just hope for excellent. 
_Dune _is such a wonderful novel...


----------



## Vince W

Stephen Palmer said:


> Well... it won't be perfect. Let's just hope for excellent.


Yes. Perfection is impossible, so details like physical differences can be overlooked if the story is excellent.


----------



## Boneman

Elckerlyc said:


> I really don't want to deprive you of your hopes, but... to quote from the text of the 1st article:
> _"In the shot above, the transport ships descend to take the Atreides leadership to their new destination."_
> It looks like the picture concerns the _younger_ Paul.


Aaarghhhhhh!!!


----------



## Boneman

Vince W said:


> Good point. Paul was 15 when the story opens.


Ooh, you're right. 15. But small for his age.... I have to admit to being more excited about this than star wars... or the dark tower... let's hope....


----------



## Werthead

A "small" 15-year-old doing the things Paul does in the book would look pretty ridiculous on screen. I think they did the best they could, hiring someone in his early 20s who looks like he's around 16.

Paul's age is also pretty irrelevant to the story. Both the Lynch movie and Sci-Fi mini-series cast someone in their mid-20s and it didn't really make any difference.


----------



## Overread

In some ways his high level of training, skill and competence would be hard to pull off in a spotty teenager aged character. It would take a very very good actor to pull it off and likely some additions to the story to present more of his early life to really drum home how he's been born to rule and trained by the best of the best his House could provide. That level of training and the idea of basically moulding a child into a role is something we've mostly lost in the modern world with our approach to school seeing the old apprenticing systems fall to one side. Even today we'd expect an apprentice to start at 15-16 instead of doing A-levels rather than already having had 10+ years of training by that stage. 

So I can see justification in shifting him a bit to young adult. Plus, as noted, its not really something that ever comes out in the story. If anything I suspect many readers end up imagining him being older without even thinking of it since his age really only comes up very early on.


----------



## Narkalui

When I read it I had to continuously remind myself that he was 15 and shrink him down slightly in my imagination


----------



## Overread

Narkalui said:


> When I read it I had to continuously remind myself that he was 15 and shrink him down slightly in my imagination



I think one thing that really helps him stand taller is that he's treated just like an adult. From what I recall (and its been a while) he's never really treated like a child/teen by those around him. Then again he also doesn't act with your "expected" teenage outbursts and such. So it all reinforces a much more mature attitude. It's perhaps closer to what we might expect from a medieval setting or even further back. Ergo when maturity was much sooner than modern developed countries have it today.


----------



## Elckerlyc

I'd say it was only in chapter 1 that he was depicted as a 'boy'. And much more mature in the rest.


----------



## Boneman

I hope this reproduces, it's from a Cineworld newsletter... now I'm starting to get really excited!! 





__





						Dune: new details and images from Denis Villeneuve's movie
					

Dune is directed by Denis Villeneuve and a batch of new images and plot details have emerged online.




					www.cineworld.co.uk


----------



## Rodders

These photos are really good news. I, for one, cannot wait to see it.


----------



## svalbard

Josh Brolin looks the business as Gurney Hallack. Love the look of the armour. Whatever else we get we know we are going to be looking at a visual feast.


----------



## Toby Frost

I have to admit that I'm not blown away by these pictures. The stillsuits look as they should and probably have to look. House Atriedes look like the board of directors of a Stalinist tractor factory. The armour is quite good. Otherwise I'll wait and see, but purely on the basis of these few pictures, I prefer the visual style of the Lynch version.


----------



## Vince W

Toby Frost said:


> I have to admit that I'm not blown away by these pictures. The stillsuits look as they should and probably have to look. House Atriedes look like the board of directors of a Stalinist tractor factory. The armour is quite good. Otherwise I'll wait and see, but purely on the basis of these few pictures, I prefer the visual style of the Lynch version.


I love Lynch's visual style.

I don't like the armour myself. It seems out of place. Too much bulk for the desert. Nice comparison of the Atreides to a Stalinist factory. Very funny.


----------



## Toby Frost

More seriously, the Houses are militaristic and family-based, and so the nods to Prussian-style aristocracy in Lynch's House Atreides make sense (on my first reading, I imagined that they were like Tudors or a big Renaissance family). Similarly, the design of House Harkonnen, with rubbery armour and underclothing that looks like bandages, feels unnatural and unhealthy. I'd be interested to see what they do with the Harkonnens, and how caricatured and freakish they end up being.


----------



## Vince W

As long as they don't give the Baron some weird disease again or make him a rhyme-master  it will be an improvement.


----------



## BAYLOR

Stephen Palmer said:


> Well... it won't be perfect. Let's just hope for excellent.
> _Dune _is such a wonderful novel...



Hopefully, this big screen adaptation will be more successful then the 1984 adaptation.


----------



## Vince W

BAYLOR said:


> Hopefully, this big screen adaptation will be more successful then the 1984 adaptation.


I do hope it's successful, but I have the feeling that Villeneuve is not interested in developing a franchise for Dune. He wants to do this book, but if it's super successful like Lord of the Rings someone else will probably take over.

And I, for one, have a special place in my heart for Lynch's Dune, especially the extended version.


----------



## Toby Frost

It'll be interesting, because I have concerns about the original novel and Villeneuve as a director that could either cancel each other out or become much greater in a film adaptation. I find the Fremen much less interesting than House Atreides, and given that Villeneuve's films can be long and slow, I think there's a risk that the second part could really drag. But we shall see.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis

Vince W said:


> And I, for one, have a special place in my heart for Lynch's Dune, especially the extended version.


I am one of the world's biggest Lynch fans, but I must admit I find _Dune_ unwatchable. (The one time I did watch it all the way through was when I saw it, as a teenager, on its original theatrical run; I own it on Blu Ray, but haven't been able to sit through it again.) I'd love for him to go back to it and do a director's cut, but it seems highly unlikely that will ever happen.


----------



## Toby Frost

It doesn't really feel all that much like a Lynch film - in a strange way, it's one of his most straightforward films. A friend of mine, who works in film, once told me that there are deleted scenes, but they're largely of Paul living among the Fremen and they don't lend much to it. I have been able to sit through it several times, but I find the first half much more interesting.


----------



## BAYLOR

Im waiting  for a trailer .


----------



## Vince W

It was supposed to drop with the release of *Tenet* but not a dicky-bird.


----------



## BAYLOR

The photos they've shown look good but , photos are not enough.  I need to see a trailer.


----------



## Toby Frost

Here's a trailer for the new film. Hmm.


----------



## Ori Vandewalle

Looks gorgeous, which you expect from Villeneuve. But the trailer is very much framed as "young main character is the Chosen One," which, well, Dune puts some effort into subverting that by going "actually that's terrifying and maybe we shouldn't embrace that idea so quickly." Also no hint of the ecological aspects of the story, but especially in the trailer, that omission doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Vince W

Looks pretty interesting. It seems as if they're going to let Duncan Idaho live. At least the 'thopers have wings.


----------



## Ori Vandewalle

Just realized that was a 3-minute trailer for a Dune movie in which spice is not mentioned once.


----------



## Vince W

Also, we didn't see Thufir Hawat, Feyd-Rautha or Piter De Vries,


----------



## BAYLOR

Ori Vandewalle said:


> Just realized that was a 3-minute trailer for a Dune movie in which spice is not mentioned once.





Ori Vandewalle said:


> Just realized that was a 3-minute trailer for a Dune movie in which spice is not mentioned once.




I found those omissions  interesting . 

Overall, very impressive . It looks they may have captured the look and feel of Dune.


----------



## hitmouse

This is a trailer, Which is a piece of advertising mainly to interest people who have not read the book Or seen the Lynch movie, and who do not necessarily have any prior interest in the story.  Hardly surprising it is not representative of certain elements of the story , however important They may be, nor the fact that characters are missed out.


----------



## BAYLOR

hitmouse said:


> This is a trailer, Which is a piece of advertising mainly to interest people who have not read the book Or seen the Lynch movie, and who do not necessarily have any prior interest in the story.  Hardly surprising it is not representative of certain elements of the story , however important They may be, nor the fact that characters are missed out.



From appearances , it looks like they got it right.


----------



## Toby Frost

I think Thufir is the stocky man carrying a parasol in the bit where Duncan Idaho (presumably) embraces Paul.


----------



## Vince W

I've watched the trailer a few times now and I'm not convinced yet.


----------



## Ori Vandewalle

May have to do a re-read to compare...


----------



## Phyrebrat

I got a YA vibe from it and the dreadful song didn’t help. I liked the sandworm but until I see Sting topless I’m a bit meh  

pH


----------



## Narkalui

I thought the song fit very well with the tone. Overall: I'm very excited but still prepared for potential disappointment


----------



## Phyrebrat

Narkalui said:


> I thought the song fit very well with the tone. Overall: I'm very excited but still prepared for potential disappointment



I _may_ be turning into a grumpy version of my dad


----------



## Rodders

Looks great and I will definitely go and see it at the pictures. 

I'm not sure how I feel about watching the first half, waiting two years before I see the second.


----------



## Toby Frost

It's not proper Dune without Sting in space pants! (I have to say that I thought that Sting was really good as Feyd-Rautha. Not quite as the book depicted him, but a solid villain.)

Purely on the basis of this trailer and some publicity shots, it feels a bit toned-down for me and not crazy enough. But we'll see. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the song is a Pink Floyd song. Perhaps it's a nod to the fact that Pink Floyd were going to do the music for Jodorowsky's attempt to make Dune in the 1970s.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Yes, Pink Floyd. _*Eclipse*_, from their album *Dark Side of the Moon*.
I found it quite fitting.


----------



## Venusian Broon

Phyrebrat said:


> I got a YA vibe from it and the dreadful song didn’t help. I liked the sandworm but until I see Sting topless I’m a bit meh
> 
> pH


Well Paul Atreides is, if you fly by the book, supposed to be 15 when he leaves for Arrakis at the start, and although this version's Paul was about the same age as Kyle Machlanlan was when he was filmed (25) he doesn't give off a creepy uncle vibe.

Songs are personal and I think I like it - sounds strangely epic - will need repeat listening of it all. Depends how fondly you remember the Toto/Brian Eno soundtrack which I feel it needs to compete with and be different from.

Ginger Sting in flying shorts. Nah, terrrible. But a great meme for the ages.


----------



## Robert Zwilling

I recognized the song as Pink Floyd. Its a mellow, droning on piece of sound, not what I would expect for a movie like Dune. The rest of the sounds, aside from the whispering, drowned it out pretty good.


----------



## Rodders

Perhaps the soundtrack has yet to be completed and the Floyd track is a filler.


----------



## Boneman

I'm hopeful... it looks gritty. All the actors are from DC/Marvel films, so they're... experienced.... Rebecca ferguson made mission impossible films very watchable. We gotta have some good things this year, my fingers are crossed!


----------



## Venusian Broon

Rodders said:


> Perhaps the soundtrack has yet to be completed and the Floyd track is a filler.


Might be the 'pop' song they play at the end credits?

Which reminds me of the dreadful cocktail bar theme they used for the end credits for Dune '84.


----------



## Ori Vandewalle

Boneman said:


> I'm hopeful... it looks gritty.



Sand is.


----------



## Toby Frost

I do not like sand, as another desert-based space-mystic once remarked.


----------



## Narkalui

Rodders said:


> Perhaps the soundtrack has yet to be completed and the Floyd track is a filler.


I remember the very first trailer for Gladiator had music from Conan The Barbarian on it for this exact reason


----------



## Vince W

A side-by-side comparison of Villeneuve's and Lynch's Dune. Quite a contrast.


----------



## Toby Frost

I've not got my glasses on right now, but are you sure it's not the same trailer with the colour saturation turned down?


----------



## Robert Zwilling

I saw on my dumb phone what appears to be another trailer for Dune, that looked more exciting but the ads were so thick that I gave up waiting for it to come on Because of 5g I am new to a phone that does a million more things than just text and voice. The fact that I have to wait for a certain amount of time before I can turn the ad off as indicated by a countdown timer only prompts me to X the whole thing out.


----------



## BAYLOR

The films premiere  is  being pushed back to October 2021.


----------



## Vince W

Not surprising given the state of the world. However, it also gives them time for some Lucas style tinkering. Not necessarily a good thing.

Exclusive: Denis Villeneuve's 'Dune' Movie Is Moving to Late 2021


----------



## BAYLOR

Vince W said:


> Not surprising given the state of the world. However, it also gives them time for some Lucas style tinkering. Not necessarily a good thing.
> 
> Exclusive: Denis Villeneuve's 'Dune' Movie Is Moving to Late 2021



A number of films are getting pushed to 2021, Including  the Bond film *No Time To Die *and *Jurassic World Dominion *


The film studios  and the theater chains must be losing many millions of dollars .


----------



## MikeAnderson

Please let this theatrical version work....please, please! Very cautious optimism on this one.


----------



## Vince W

BAYLOR said:


> A number of films are getting pushed to 2021, Including  the Bond film *No Time To Die *and *Jurassic World Dominion *
> 
> 
> The film studios  and the theater chains must be losing many millions of dollars .


I'm disappointed about *Dune*, but I'm not fussed about anything else. I watched *Bill and Ted Face the Music* at home and I probably enjoyed it more because I didn't have to contend with a load of mouth-breathing phone junkies through it. I say release the films on streaming services and let the cinemas find their own level. I'd pay a whole lot more for a ticket if I _knew_ that I wouldn't be constantly bothered through the film.


----------



## Boneman

Boneman said:


> I'm hopeful... it looks gritty. All the actors are from DC/Marvel films, so they're... experienced.... Rebecca ferguson made mission impossible films very watchable. We gotta have some good things this year, my fingers are crossed!




Ha ha... "gotta have some good things this year"....


----------



## Toby Frost

Another trailer. By and large, it looks pretty promising. I'm not sure about some of the dialogue.






(Although I don't remember Paul killing The Stig in the original novel)


----------



## ctg

Toby Frost said:


> I'm not sure about some of the dialogue.



For it being typical to modern day idioms and phrases?


----------



## Toby Frost

Yes.


----------



## ctg

Toby Frost said:


> Yes.


Like what I said in the Foundation thread, we'll have to wait and see. Their aim is to make this classic SF masterpiece more relatable to the larger audience. Not just to us purist. Frank Herbert wrote this back in early sixties and the language in the book is modern English, with zero amount of the language characteristics. 

I think the language Idaho uses to young Paul shows a lot about the man he is, a fighter, when he refers to Paul's lack of muscles. He'd served the house military wing for ages and the language comes from there. But I get that it might stagger the image you've in mind, especially as in the book Duncan comes out with a lot more swagger than what Momoa has been shown in his characters. 

To me Duncan's character is more like GoT's Syrio Forel, with a lot of flair that hides behind it the real killer. The most capable duellist in the Dune planet.


----------



## ctg

> _Dune_ is notoriously difficult to adapt—as David Lynch discovered when he directed his critically panned 1984 film adaptation—but Villeneuve found the trick was to split the novel in half. This first film will cover events in the first half of the novel, and a second installment will cover events in the second half. However, Villeneuve wrote an op-ed for Variety last December, sharply criticizing the studio's decision to release _Dune_ simultaneously in theaters and on HBO Max (for a 31-day period) because of the ongoing global pandemic. He predicted this could result in the film underperforming at the box office ("piracy will ultimately triumph"), leading to a cancellation of the planned sequel.











						Latest Dune trailer gives us our best look yet at Denis Villeneuve’s epic film
					

It's the first half of a planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert's novel.




					arstechnica.com
				




So it's a two-parter and there is no plans on filming the following books. Unless it does super well.


----------



## ctg

This will change things, the deal with the HBO max is that the second part of the Dune is an actual miniseries. We'll get that glory of House Artreides going down, and then we get to see how he'll take back the world (and then the Imperium). I think it's a clever plan. 



> The show was ordered straight-to-series at HBO Max in June 2019. Set in the universe of Frank Herbert’s epic “Dune” novel series, “Dune: The Sisterhood” is told through the eyes of a mysterious order of women known as the Bene Gesserit. Given extraordinary abilities by their mastery of the body and the mind, the Bene Gesserit expertly weave through the feudal politics and intrigue of The Imperium, pursuing plans of their own that will ultimately lead them to the enigmatic planet Arrakis, known to its inhabitants as Dune. It will serve as a prequel to the films.











						‘Dune’ HBO Max Series Enlists Diane Ademu-John as New Showrunner (EXCLUSIVE)
					

The “Dune” television series prequel at HBO Max has found its new showrunner. Variety has learned exclusively that Diane Ademu-John has boarded “Dune: The Sisterhood” in the…




					variety.com
				




Is going to be like GoT and show all the corruption that goes along the Spice trade? Are they going to talk about the Messiah? Or the worm?



> Denis Villeneuve is still attached to direct the pilot for the series. Along with Spaihts, Villeneuve, Brian Herbert, Byron Merritt and Kim Herbert for the Frank Herbert estate will executive produce along with Scott Z. Burns. Kevin J. Anderson will co-produce. The series hails from Legendary Television, with Legendary also producing the upcoming film reboot.


----------



## ctg

Anyone seen it yet? Apparently, it was a huge hit in Finland.


----------



## Elckerlyc

ctg said:


> Anyone seen it yet? Apparently, it was a huge hit in Finland.



Dune hasn't been released yet. I think that is to happen around 20 October.
It has however been presented at the Film Festival in Venice. See also this thread.


----------



## ctg

Elckerlyc said:


> Dune hasn't been released yet.


It has but not for us. What I see is that a lot of people are on four to five star ratings, but there are also those who absolutely hated it.


----------



## Elckerlyc

ctg said:


> It has but not for us. What I see is that a lot of people are on four to five star ratings, but there are also those who absolutely hated it.


Most reviews I read are positive. It depends on your expectations, I guess.
If you without any expectations and let the visuals do their work you will leave the theater in awe. The problem some people have is that this is Part One and the story breaks off just when it got going. I don't care really, as long as there will be a Part Two (which might become uncertain when too many people don't like Part Ones....


----------



## J-WO

The box office looks pretty good in Russia, Finland, Saudi Arabia etc. If that's any indicator for the larger markets then I think Part Two is fairly certain. Fingers crossed!


----------



## ctg

> If science fiction has an answer to fantasy’s The Lord of the Rings – JRR Tolkien’s epic saga of the battle to defeat the Dark Lord, Sauron – then Frank Herbert’s Dune has to be a strong contender. Published in 1965, it is the story of the desert planet Arrakis, known as Dune; of the rare and priceless “spice” that can be found there; of the Atreides family, sent to Dune’s dangerous surface to rule; of its native Fremen people, who are capable of surviving in this inhospitable environment. Of the giant sandworms, hundreds of metres long, which hunt beneath the sands, and of Paul Atreides’ reluctant ascent to messianic status. And it is finally getting the mainstream attention it deserves, thanks to Denis Villeneuve’s film adaptation, out in the UK on 21 October.











						Dune: science fiction’s answer to Lord of the Rings
					

Frank Herbert’s novel, now adapted for cinema with Timothée Chalamet and Zendaya, is finally getting the recognition it deserves, agree authors including Neil Gaiman and Jeff VanderMeer




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## HareBrain

I can't help feeling an actor called Timothée is completely wrong for a film set in a desert. He'd have the fresh smell of summer meadows.

(That might be a Brits-only "joke".)


----------



## Dan Jones

Definitely a Brit only joke, like that one about Bernard's mum.

I'm off to see Dune tonight at the BFI IMAX in Waterloo! Will report back...


----------



## BAYLOR

J-WO said:


> The box office looks pretty good in Russia, Finland, Saudi Arabia etc. If that's any indicator for the larger markets then I think Part Two is fairly certain. Fingers crossed!



We might get part 2.


----------



## Toby Frost

I don't get either of those jokes and I'm British - unless it's a reference to an old comedy called "Sorry", whose lead character was called Timothy, I think. Wow, I've not thought about that for about 30 years.

Is there a way of seeing Dune without going to the cinema?


----------



## Venusian Broon

Toby Frost said:


> I don't get either of those jokes and I'm British - unless it's a reference to an old comedy called "Sorry", whose lead character was called Timothy, I think. Wow, I've not thought about that for about 30 years.
> 
> Is there a way of seeing Dune without going to the cinema?



Unfortunately you have to be able to access HBO max at the moment because that's the channel that's airing it, and that is not allowed if you are in the UK....however....if you use a VPN and change your location to the US you can access it via a PC or similar device.


----------



## Toby Frost

Thanks, but that sounds way beyond me! I'll wait for the DVD, I think.


----------



## Danny McG

Toby Frost said:


> don't get either of those jokes and I'm British


----------



## ctg

If someone wants to go with me to check it out, please let me know.


----------



## Droflet

I've seen it. Generally, it doesn't add anything to the original, but my lord it's sluggish. The direction lacked immediacy and tension. Not exactly bad, but I won't be rushing out to see part two. I've had enough sleep, watching this movie, to last me for a while.


----------



## alexvss

It's a slow-burn like other Villeneuve's movies so I knew what I was in for. But honestly? I think it fits, and I wasn't bored.


----------



## Toby Frost

Droflet said:


> Generally, it doesn't add anything to the original, but my lord it's sluggish. The direction lacked immediacy and tension.



Having seen all 15 hours of Blade Runner 2049 (it felt that way), this is what I've been fearing.


----------



## Danny McG

Toby Frost said:


> Is there a way of seeing Dune without going to the cinema?


Yes, there was!
If only you'd accepted my Facebook friend request (four months ago and counting!) 
I could have sent you by Messenger my pirated download, gone now, lost in time, like...tears in rain


----------



## AE35Unit

Hang on, Dune is Space Opera? I thought it was all planet bound


----------



## Elckerlyc

Oops. Was already answered.


----------



## Elckerlyc

I have seen it. And I definitely want to see Part Two.

Is it a slow burner? To the point it is boring and sleep inducing? Yes to the former, definitely No to the latter. But hey, you know the story, it's not an action thriller. Generally speaking it follows Paul development from typical 15 year old teenager to a troubled Messiah. And Timothée Chamalet depicts that WAY better than Kyle Maclachlan or Alec Newman. He fits the role, as do the other main characters.
The movie takes its time to tell the story. Part One runs until directly after the duel between Paul and Jamis. Which is longer than it does in the SyFy mini-series, but the movie makes other choices about what to tell or not. There is more attention for the interactions between Paul and the people close around him.
But yeah, it is Villeneuve's interpretation, told in a way to appeal to the cinema-public of today and with stunning visuals. It won't speak to everyone, I suppose, as everyone carries their own expectations and imagery by reading the books.


----------



## Toby Frost

Danny McG said:


> If only you'd accepted my Facebook friend request



I probably missed it: 30 minutes on Facebook and I can see what that Butlerian Jihad was all about. Even a third stage Helmsman would find Facebook hard to navigate.


----------



## Vince W

Toby Frost said:


> I probably missed it: 30 minutes on Facebook and I can see what that Butlerian Jihad was all about. Even a third stage Helmsman would find Facebook hard to navigate.


----------



## Toby Frost

For further gags may I point you towards the very reasonably-priced and entirely non-Dune-related novel _God-Emperor of Didcot_...


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Just finished it. I went into it expecting to dislike it but really loved it. Dune is one of those stories that has everything I would usually hate in a story - the chosen one, prophecies, portentous dialogue about coming galactic wars and foretold messiahs, but for some reason it all comes together perfectly. I loved the Lynch version, flawed as it was - the production design, eno's music, the lynchian weirdness.

When I saw the trailers for Villeneuve's Dune it looked bland. Having seen it, it's anything but.

Some beautiful cinematography. The opening shots are like something by John Martin.

The acting is on point, the production design is incredible. It's a slow movie, but it's positively biblical / Shakespearean in scope. It was 2 1/2 hours but it didn't feel it at all. I didn't think the politics were heavy handed. The sandworms were great, the music suitably atmospheric. The desert looked fantastic.

A friend of mine who is... not a fan of Dune (and hasn't seen it or enjoyed the books) called the series "an interminable, tedious phonebook sized set of potboilers." I suspect his opinion is based on a general dislike of worldbuilding focused stories - which he regards as nerdery. I'm a nerd so naturally I disagree. Dune has to be, alongside LOTR, the pinnacle of worldbuilding, though. The thought and detail is just mind blowing, and this really comes across in the movie. 

There was only one tiny unintentionally silly bit right at the end which made me laugh out loud.



Spoiler: Spoiler



You see a freeman riding a sandworm in the distance that just looked very daft. It's a very short, blink and you'll miss it moment, but felt very incongruous with the rest of the movie.



I very much missed the Emperor or the Guild Navigators and hope we can see those in the sequel, if it gets one.


----------



## Dan Jones

Good summary @Mon0Zer0. I saw it on Friday and would concur. The production design and cinematography are absolutely stunning. The ornithopters are very cool, and the sandworms are brilliantly done.

I saw it with friends and concluded that if you weren't into Dune, or epic science fiction/fantasy then it would be a difficult film to watch; it is very slowly-paced, and takes its sweet time in presenting the world and its politics. But it does allow the viewer to sink into the world and appreciate the bleak and blasted beauty of it.

The world building is cleverly done, managed without infodumps (save for one or two that are deftly done as Paul listens to his schooling videos) and allowed to develop naturally. 

There was nothing relating to the Navigators, or folding space, or mentats, or even about the effects of spice (though they are hinted at) but clearly some things had to be culled in order to retain something close to a sensible running time.

In any case I'd expect these things to be showed off in Dune part 2. And that's my final thought: one has to admire Villeneuve's chutzpah in naming the movie Dune Part 1 when the second part hasn't even been green lit yet. So if you want to see Dune part 2, my advice is to get out there and watch part 1 to bump up those box office figures....


----------



## Elckerlyc

Fully agree with the above 2 reviews.
If I had to name a downside it would be that it fell a bit short on the worldbuilding and that it leaned on the assumption that the audience would know and recognize when shown a hint. Like the mentats. They weren't mentioned as a group but Thufir Hawat, not introduced as such, was clearly recognizable as one. BTW, I liked his performance.
Not every aspect of the world needs to be delved into, really. The Navigators were presented (of sorts) and Paul was taught that the Spice is essential for their navigating. More isn't strictly necessary to tell the story.
Anyway, Part One was basically the setup to the actual story, which will be Part Two. I think many new aspects and details will surface then.


----------



## ctg

I'm interested, how did the Navigators look like?


----------



## Droflet

In the original film, ctg, something like this:


----------



## Droflet

People are waiting to see if they make an appearance in part two.


----------



## Mon0Zer0

ctg said:


> I'm interested, how did the Navigators look like?



They weren't in Part 1.


----------



## Elckerlyc

They were, as witnesses at the ceremony. Only disguised, so you didn't actually _see_ them..


----------



## BAYLOR

From what ive been reading, It looks like Part 2 might happen after all.


----------



## AlexH

I saw Dune while on holiday in Scotland on Thursday and booked my seat last-minute.

The opening seemed promising, but I barely knew what was going on for an hour or maybe more. It seemed I was told stuff I didn't need to be, but there wasn't enough information about the different houses and their motivations (aside from the spice) or who was who and why. I rarely felt any tension and some of the character's about-turns felt odd, as did a couple of other things that happened. I got more and more bored and couldn't wait for the film to end at one point.

I'm not sure Dune looked all that great either. It did in a way, but I can't put my finger on why it didn't. Maybe it was overdone. The worms were meh.

I generally enjoy Denis Villeneuve films (Incendies being one of my all-time favourites). I've also seen Dune comparisons to 2001: A Space Odyssey, which I loved.

I'm a Hans Zimmer fan too but didn't think much of his soundtrack.

5/10

This is the review I've read that's closest to my thoughts, and I liked the reference to Nausicaa: ‘Dune’ Review: Denis Villeneuve’s Epic Spice Opera Is a Massive Disappointment

Saying that, I do hope there's a sequel and that I enjoy it. It does seem like a story that's better suited to a TV series (I know there was one in the early 2000s) and The Golden Compass (average film) vs His Dark Materials (excellent TV series) comes to mind.


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Elckerlyc said:


> They were, as witnesses at the ceremony. Only disguised, so you didn't actually _see_ them..


The guys in the space suits?


----------



## Elckerlyc

Yes, at least I think that was implied.
When the herald mentioned the witnesses ("members of the imperial court, Navigators, and a sister of the Bene Gesserit"), there was this shot with the guys in suits. But there were 2 kinds of suits. The other suits 'contained' members of the imperial court, I presume. You didn't actually got to see them either. Only the herald and the sister of the BG were recognizable.
No, please don't ask me _why_.


----------



## Toby Frost

I just like the idea of a big-budget SF film that isn't about superheroes*.


*Yeah, the kwisatz haderach and all that sort of thing, but you know what I mean.


----------



## ctg

> Deadline’s reported that the new adaptation of Frank Herbert’s acclaimed novel has earned $40.1 million for the first weekend, also making it the highest domestic opening of Villeneuve’s career. Previously tracked for a range of $30-35 million, it’s ahead of expectations and is now the 8th film from WB. this year to open #1 at the box office. It’s been out internationally for weeks now—this weekend has earned the film $87.5 million, and it’s now at $220.7 million overall. Much of it, according to the Hollywood Reporter, can be attributed to IMAX and other large format screens, apparently accounting for 50% of the opening weekend.











						Dune Is Dune Pretty Good at the Box Office
					

Timothee Chalamet's sci-fi film has plenty of spice and money to go around.




					gizmodo.com
				












						Dune (2021) - Financial Information
					

Financial analysis of Dune (2021) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.




					www.the-numbers.com
				




165 million budget. So it's already on the profit and all the articles point out that it's a hit. Will it reach Titanic's numbers, I doubt it will but it has the potential. But so far, it seems that the number 2 is confirmed. We just have to see what will become of that HBO series and what that leaves for the number 2.


----------



## BAYLOR

ctg said:


> Dune Is Dune Pretty Good at the Box Office
> 
> 
> Timothee Chalamet's sci-fi film has plenty of spice and money to go around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gizmodo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dune (2021) - Financial Information
> 
> 
> Financial analysis of Dune (2021) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.the-numbers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 165 million budget. So it's already on the profit and all the articles point out that it's a hit. Will it reach Titanic's numbers, I doubt it will but it has the potential. But so far, it seems that the number 2 is confirmed. We just have to see what will become of that HBO series and what that leaves for the number 2.



At least we'll get part two to complete the first book and that's perfectly fine.


----------



## BAYLOR

Toby Frost said:


> I just like the idea of a big-budget SF film that isn't about superheroes*.
> 
> 
> *Yeah, the kwisatz haderach and all that sort of thing, but you know what I mean.



The Superhero genre is to this era what the Westerns were to film and television  in the 40's 50s 60's and early 70's .


----------



## Mon0Zer0

BAYLOR said:


> The Superhero genre is to this era what the Westerns were to film and television  in the 40's 50s 60's and early 70's .



I've yet to see a superhero film equal Once upon a time in the west, High Noon, The Searchers, Red River, Fistful of Dollars, Treasure of the sierra madre etc.


----------



## BAYLOR

Mon0Zer0 said:


> I've yet to see a superhero film equal Once upon a time in the west, High Noon, The Searchers, Red River, Fistful of Dollars, Treasure of the sierra madre etc.



Hm, good point.

You might also add to that List *The Oxbow Incident    *Book and film are both great. 

And *Shane * as well both Book and movie.


----------



## Ursa major

ctg said:


> 165 million budget. So it's already on the profit


It's often said that the production budget (well, what was spent to create a film) is half of the total cost of the film.

If so, _Dune Part 1_ would need to bring in more than US$330 million at the box office to start making a profit.


----------



## The Judge

Well, I'm with AlexH in the Disappointed Corner.

I agree the cinematography was excellent -- the scenes of the desert were especially ravishing -- as were the special effects. Costume design was a bit meh, and I wasn't over-impressed with some of the sets.  The long, lingering shots of various characters staring dolefully into the distance must have added a good 15 minutes to the run-time, and the repetitious dream sequences must have doubled that.

Didn't think much of how Jessica was played -- utterly wet for the first two hours and about as sensual as a damp dishcloth -- and the Duke wasn't much better, and it felt like Gurney had most of his scenes left on the cutting room floor.  The school lesson thingummies were written like Wikipedia entries for the hard of thinking, and the script as a whole moved from banal to portentous and back again with barely a nod to realistic or intelligent anywhere along the line.  Though to be scrupulously fair, there might have been more to it than that but I couldn't bloody well hear half the dialogue, because when the actors weren't mumbling they were drowned out by the sodding music.  And the idea of the bagpipes was just just plain daft.

I'd rate it highly as a spectacle, but not for anything else.


----------



## BAYLOR

The Judge said:


> Well, I'm with AlexH in the Disappointed Corner.
> 
> I agree the cinematography was excellent -- the scenes of the desert were especially ravishing -- as were the special effects. Costume design was a bit meh, and I wasn't over-impressed with some of the sets.  The long, lingering shots of various characters staring dolefully into the distance must have added a good 15 minutes to the run-time, and the repetitious dream sequences must have doubled that.
> 
> Didn't think much of how Jessica was played -- utterly wet for the first two hours and about as sensual as a damp dishcloth -- and the Duke wasn't much better, and it felt like Gurney had most of his scenes left on the cutting room floor.  The school lesson thingummies were written like Wikipedia entries for the hard of thinking, and the script as a whole moved from banal to portentous and back again with barely a nod to realistic or intelligent anywhere along the line.  Though to be scrupulously fair, there might have been more to it than that but I couldn't bloody well hear half the dialogue, because when the actors weren't mumbling they were drowned out by the sodding music.  And the idea of the bagpipes was just just plain daft.
> 
> I'd rate it highly as a spectacle, but not for anything else.



At least it will be a hit and,  we'll get part 2. So, it will get closure.


----------



## ctg

The Judge said:


> Didn't think much of how Jessica was played -- utterly wet for the first two hours and about as sensual as a damp dishcloth -- and the Duke wasn't much better, and it felt like Gurney had most of his scenes left on the cutting room floor. The school lesson thingummies were written like Wikipedia entries for the hard of thinking, and the script as a whole moved from banal to portentous and back again with barely a nod to realistic or intelligent anywhere along the line. Though to be scrupulously fair, there might have been more to it than that but I couldn't bloody well hear half the dialogue, because when the actors weren't mumbling they were drowned out by the sodding music. And the idea of the bagpipes was just just plain daft.



Your honour, do you consider yourself as a purist? I'm asking, because earliest reviews pointed out to purist hatred. Was there anything that you liked?


----------



## The Judge

Nope, not at all a purist -- I'm not a Dune fan-girl by any means. I've only read the first two books and really disliked the second, and though I have fond memories of reading the first book as a teenager, I had grave reservations about it on a re-read about 9 years ago.  In fact, I'm so far from being a fan that when everyone here was talking about mentats and the rest, I was desperately trying to remember what they were!

The only aspect of my review that relates to my reading of the book is how Jessica is portrayed in the film.  I remember her as a strong character, and that wasn't shown here to my mind, a least not at the beginning, and I have memories of Francesca Annis in the Lynch version, and at the time I thought she was perfect, though I can't recall anything of her performance now.  It's entirely possible that in fact the characterisation shown in this film is more in keeping with the book than my memory is, but for me the performance felt wrong for a woman who is both BG, requiring strength of mind, and a courtesan, who ought to have some sexual allure.

Everything else I said related to it just as a film, with no reference to the book at all.

As to what I liked, as I said the visuals were stunning, and the ship designs were interesting.  The fight scenes were well choreographed (though they went on too long for me) and some small touches were good eg the Harkonnen assassin found in a wall, Jessica with writing over her face, the bull and bullfighter prop. Oh, and Charlotte Rampling was good.


----------



## CupofJoe

Some people just don't have enough real work to do...








						Dune: we simulated the desert planet of Arrakis to see if humans could survive there
					

Is Dune scientifically plausible? We ran a climate model to find out.




					theconversation.com


----------



## Ursa major

You may laugh -- and, when the following was noticed by the UK press, this is what they did -- but there was a paper written by an academic examining if the weather pattern in Middle Earth (particular as regards to Mordor during the era in which _The Lord of the Rings_ was being played out) matched the geography of the place. (Apparently, it did.) It also looked to see if there were locations on Earth that had the same weather as Mordor (which there were, one of which could be found in Australia).

A few years back, the author of the paper gave a talk at BristoCon based on his paper. Not only was it interesting in itself** but, as he explained, it provided an introduction into the study of the Earth's climate (include modelling it)... i.e. its use of Mordor was there to entice people to examine what is otherwise (and in spite of all the talk about climate change) a somewhat esoteric subject, one from which most people would run a mile if given the chance.


** - Thankfully so, as I had been wondering... er... whether I should attend it or another talk/panel elsewhere at the Con.


----------



## svalbard

Saw it last night. Cinema was packed. First time all year. I loved every minute of it. I am biased as I am a big fan of the director.


----------



## AlexH

The sequel has been confirmed, which I'm pleased about despite not enjoying the first part. I've never read Dune either, but hopefully the context of the first film has set up the sequel well.


----------



## Toby Frost

It was pretty decent. There seemed to be a lot of dream sequences, but thankfully not too much staring at sand, which I had worried about since watching the _Blade Runner_ sequel.

It's a better film than the Lynch version because it makes more sense, the effects are superior (although, for 1984, the Lynch film's effects are very good) and it has more space and time to tell its complicated story. However, I felt that the royal family were generally better at being stern but likable in Lynch's film (especially Jurgen Prochnow as the duke).  Timothee Chalomet is better cast than Kyle MacLachlan. 

Jessica is simply done wrong, and resembles a consumptive governess from a Victorian ghost story rather than the courtesan/killer that she is in the book. The Francesca Annis version is much better. Overall, the Harkonnens are well-portrayed - Dave Bautista is very good as Beast Rabban - although the Baron does resemble Colonel Kurtz from _Apocalypse Now_, and at points it's hard to tell what people are saying (not counting the lines that aren't in English).

There's a certain underwhelming quality to some of the costumes and sets. It feels slightly underplayed and washed-out. I think, with a setting like this, you've got to go for the throat. If you're going to imply that the Sardaukar drink blood, they should be swilling it by the pint. There seemed to be a lot of soldiers dressed like motorcyclists.

But overall, it was good stuff. I liked the big pyrotechnic scenes, especially Duncan Idaho's escape in an ornithopter, and it was remarkably clear in its storytelling. I look forward to seeing the second part.


----------



## ctg

Toby Frost said:


> It was pretty decent. There seemed to be a lot of dream sequences, but thankfully not too much staring at sand, which I had worried about since watching the _Blade Runner_ sequel.



Oh dear, dream sequences. Villeneuve has to get over them and only include the important bits, like the stuff Paul gets from spice and seeing his future. Did you had any pacing problems?


----------



## Toby Frost

That's a hard question to answer, as it's very long and feels lengthy, but really has to be to get all the ideas in. I reckon a really ruthless edit could shave 15-20 minutes off the running time, but I didn't feel that it was much too long, as I felt with _Blade Runner 2049_.

To me, the problem with panoramas and overlong shots of the area is that they're distancing and comforting - even in an industrial hellhole like the _Blade Runner_ world. I didn't think that about_ Dune_.

I have to say that the music did little for me and some of the mixing seemed slightly off, but then I'm not a huge fan of Hans Zimmer anyhow.


----------



## ctg

> Denis Villeneuve will get the chance to create the second film of his planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert’s “Dune,” Legendary Entertainment and Warner Bros. said Tuesday.
> The news comes after Villeneuve’s “Dune” tallied $41 million at the domestic box office during its debut over the weekend, a solid haul considering the film also launched on HBO Max Friday. Globally, the film hauled in $220 million.
> 
> While Warner Bros. seemed keen to greenlight a second film for Villeneuve, Legendary owns the cinematic rights to the novel and had to be onboard in order to continue the story on the big screen.
> The second film is expected to follow Paul Atreides (Timothee Chalamet) as he joins the Fremen and works to bring peace to the desert planet of Arrakis.
> “Dune: Part Two” will debut Oct. 20, 2023.











						'Dune' sequel greenlit by Legendary and Warner Bros.
					

Denis Villeneuve will get the chance to create the second film of his planned two-part adaptation of Frank Herbert's "Dune."




					www.cnbc.com
				






> _Oscar winning Dune screenwriter Eric Roth banged out the screenplay using the MS-DOS program Movie Master. Roth writes everything using the 30-year-old software. "I work on an old computer program that's not in existence anymore," Roth said in an interview in 2014. "It's half superstition and half fear of change." Roth wrote the screenplay for Dune in 2018 and explained he was still using Movie Master on a Barstool Sports podcast in 2020. That means Dune was written in an MS-DOS program.
> 
> In the video, he pulled up a DOS window in Windows XP and booted up Movie Master 3.09 on an ancient beige mechanical keyboard. "So now I'm in DOS. Nobody can get on the internet and get this," Roth said. "I have to give them a hard copy. They have to scan it and then put it in their computers and then I have to work through their computer because you can't even email mine or anything. You can't get to it except where it is. It has 40 pages and it runs out of memory." [...] Roth also said the 40 page limit helps him structure his screenplays."I like it because it makes acts," he said. "I realize if I hadn't said it in 40 pages I'm starting to get in trouble."_











						The 'Dune' Screenplay Was Written In MS-DOS - Slashdot
					

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: Oscar winning Dune screenwriter Eric Roth banged out the screenplay using the MS-DOS program Movie Master. Roth writes everything using the 30-year-old software. "I work on an old computer program that's not in existence anymore," Roth said...



					tech.slashdot.org


----------



## G.T.

Saw this on Monday and thought it was decent, but I actually prefer Lynch's Dune as a piece of storytelling. I'm not a Dune fan by any means, but I did enjoy the books.

Some things that just I didn't like I'll put in spoilers just in case.



Spoiler



They make a big deal of Gurney's training of the Atreides army. I guess this is so we know Paul is a decent fighter. The Duke and others (but not Paul) arrive on Arrakis in heavy battle armor. When the Harkonnen's attack, no one is wearing battle armor. Everyone seems to have left it far away from wherever they were. Gurney is pulling on his jacket as he runs outside. A well-trained army would keep its weapons and armor close by, right? Not these guys, they all seem to just have swords. It seemed silly after harping on about how good the Atreides soldiers were. They could have made that battle epic, instead it seemed like a bunch of fools running to their deaths. They show us a hand carried rock cutting laser later in the film, that alone could kill hundreds of enemies if swept across them, but no I want to use my sword with no armor.

When Paul meets the Fremen after their escape, he is challenged to a fight because one of them doesn't think he is worth their effort. Despite he has just knocked the guy over and escaped up the rocks. He has Chani behind him, but he doesn't know she is there. It seemed out of place for one guy to be so adamantly against Paul, even though Jessica has Stilgar captive and Paul has a weapon trained on them. Not sure if this matches the book, but it just felt wrong to me.

They make a big deal of Fremen surviving in the desert and how you wouldn't last 2 hrs without a suit out there. But most of the time they go around mouth breathing through the desert despite showing us the mask part of the suit several times. It was like they decided to throw away that part of the suit in favour of face shots of the actors. Don't make something a big deal and then not use it.

The audio was bad in parts. Dream sequences where someone is saying something and music swells at the start and you only get the second half of a sentence. It happens a few times. Now I saw it in IMAX so maybe that caused some sound issues, but really if you are the sound engineer or the editor, surely you can make 100% sure the voice is audible? If I can't hear it first time, then you've done something wrong. It felt like they knew what was being said so didn't notice it was in-audible because they could hear it, knowing what was meant to be said.



My complaints might sound like bashing, but I didn't think it was bad at all. It was long but didn't feel overly long, they could definitely tighten it up a bit. They had a decent budget, but the things that I didn't like, I think, are things that could have been addressed with a bit of common sense.


----------



## Toby Frost

Some of your comments I'd put down to dramatic licence and things looking cool (and allowing you to see the actors' faces). If I was in the desert, I'd want to wear goggles as well as a full stillsuit. I agree that the armour all seemed pretty useless, but I think the guys running out had shields activated, which seems to make all the difference in the setting. There is actually some stuff in the background about why you wouldn't use a laser on shields (basically they explode). I agree about the sound mixing. Several times I lost the end of a sentence because the score was making a honking sound.


----------



## ctg

G.T. said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> The Duke and others (but not Paul) arrive on Arrakis in heavy battle armor. When the Harkonnen's attack, no one is wearing battle armor. Everyone seems to have left it far away from wherever they were. Gurney is pulling on his jacket as he runs outside. A well-trained army would keep its weapons and armor close by, right? Not these guys, they all seem to just have swords.





Spoiler



Well, the first thing about the armour is that you might forget the shield. In Frank Herbert's Dune universe, the 'energy shield' will stop everything thrown at it. That's why you need swords and blades, so that you can bypass the shield with a 'slow moving edge.' 

So for the alarm you need your shield and a blade. The rest is extra. 



G.T. said:


> They make a big deal of Fremen surviving in the desert and how you wouldn't last 2 hrs without a suit out there. But most of the time they go around mouth breathing through the desert despite showing us the mask part of the suit several times. It was like they decided to throw away that part of the suit in favour of face shots of the actors. Don't make something a big deal and then not use it.


You've miss understood the still suit. It is not the atmosphere that is killing them. They can breath it, it's the vaporisation, the loss of liquids that is killing them, because in the Dune world there's no surface water. It's all in aquifers and in other deep reservoirs, like what we have in Mars and Ceres today. 

The still suit captures the essential juices, but you still have a problem with the number two. No workaround with that stuff, unfortunately. And you must know from Covid experience that it is difficult to speak clearly, while wearing a mask. 

They could have got around that with technology, but then the sound would have been even more garbled. So essentially the writer might go through all the processes, but for the film industry they need faces and lip motions.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Spoiler: Additionally



I got the impression the armour is for ceremonies only. We only see them wearing it at their debarkation at Arrakis, when there was no real reason other than ceremonial (inspecting the guard) to wear it. If there was a threat than Jessica and Paul would not have debarked at the same time. Nor did anyone wear armour at their training. It is all shield depending. Better than some piece of metal.
Besides that, when the alarm when the Harkonnen troops were already everywhere. There wasn't time to put on armour, if at all needed.

Goggles to go whit the masks was what I missed. It would have made more sense. But as with removing the masks before speaking, the full outfit and communicating does not go well together. Certainly not for the movie-watcher. It happens in all the adaptations I have seen.


----------



## G.T.

Spoiler






ctg said:


> You've miss understood the still suit. It is not the atmosphere that is killing them. They can breath it, it's the vaporisation, the loss of liquids that is killing them, because in the Dune world there's no surface water. It's all in aquifers and in other deep reservoirs, l


That was my point. You lose a lot of moisture out of an open mouth, but here are these guys, desert experts all going around not using the face mask part of their stillsuit...all of the time.



I get that there is a lot of background information about the Dune universe that might explain a lot of the things I mentioned, but if they aren't made clear in the film, then the film is presenting it poorly. No one should need a primer in order to understand things.


----------



## Elckerlyc

G.T. said:


> No one should need a primer in order to understand things.


I agree. It the one real issue I have with this movie. By trying to avoid exposition, it fails to give enough background information to fully understand and/or appreciate what is happening. Especially for people who haven't read the books (or did so 50 odd years ago.)


----------



## Venusian Broon

ctg said:


> I'm interested, how did the Navigators look like?






The representatives of the guild were the guys with the orange cloud of melange in the bubble helmets behind the Imperial herald. When the camera was close enough you could see a human face inside. They are in the blur at the back of this photo I found t'internet

However, I'm sure they are not a 'full' Navigator, but one on the journey to perhaps become one, as Villeneuve presents a lot of the visuals very much more in-line with the book description. A real guild navigator would be an extremely distorted human.


----------



## Venusian Broon

svalbard said:


> Saw it last night. Cinema was packed. First time all year. I loved every minute of it. I am biased as I am a big fan of the director.


Excellent then I am in good company!  I loved it too. Yes I do think it helps if you've read the book (and you can get through that, some can't, I know) and therefore I didn't have any problem with any of the weird spice-dream bits - I knew what Villeneuve was trying to protray, and what they really meant for Paul. (My book memories are generally very good, and it's only been about 15 -20 years since I last read Dune...)

I don't know what I would have thought if I had never come across this franchaise at all. The best cut of the Lynch film has about an hour of exposition right at the start (with about 15 minutes of a voice narration over 'paintings' of the Butlerian Jihad, if my memory serves me right) to try and pack in the complex universe Herbert gives you in the book. 

If Villeneuve had done something like that I don't think it would have satisified the Dune-heads like me, nor the causual film-goers and therefore would have probably flopped. I think he had to pick a side, and for example like the recent adaption of Stephen King's _It, _he gambled that there were enough fans and readers heavily invested in a more faithful adaption, rather go for the Rocky Horror show and garbled dynamics that was Lynch's Dune (albeit it had some good moments and I still think it's okay )


----------



## svalbard

I have a soft spot for Lynch's version. I agree on all your points. Although it is years since I read the book and the sequels I did think that Villaneuve had got it spot on. Not just with Paul and Jessica, but Stilgar, Gurney, Duncan and the other supporting characters. His vision matched that of Herbert's


----------



## Venusian Broon

svalbard said:


> I have a soft spot for Lynch's version. I agree on all your points. Although it is years since I read the book and the sequels I did think that Villaneuve had got it spot on. Not just with Paul and Jessica, but Stilgar, Gurney, Duncan and the other supporting characters. His vision matched that of Herbert's


Just have to add to that list (from the 'other') the Harkonnens, with Stellan Skarsgard and Dave Bautista really hitting the spot for me too. Dripping with malice and a more believeable enemy than the Lynch version. The moment when the Baron floats over the table, out of focus, towards Leto is fantastic.


----------



## svalbard

I think Toby mentioned it earlier about Stellan channeling his inner Colonel Kurtz. It was actually a topic of conversation as we left the cinema. Yeah, I thought they were brilliant as the Harkonnens. Stellan Skarsgaard is a wonderful actor.


----------



## Venusian Broon

svalbard said:


> I think Toby mentioned it earlier about Stellan channeling his inner Colonel Kurtz. It was actually a topic of conversation as we left the cinema. Yeah, I thought they were brilliant as the Harkonnens. Stellan Skarsgaard is a wonderful actor.



Sorry, gushing a bit now   but the Sardaukar introduction on Salusa Secundus blew me away too., especially in IMAX. The throat singing, the really bizarre shaped priest, the blood sacrifices with the priestesses (?) marking blood on the men...as you say, Villeneuve got it spot on with the right feel. These are the guys the galaxy fears.


----------



## svalbard

Venusian Broon said:


> Sorry, gushing a bit now   but the Sardaukar introduction on Salusa Secundus blew me away too., especially in IMAX. The throat singing, the really bizarre shaped priest, the blood sacrifices with the priestesses (?) marking blood on the men...as you say, Villeneuve got it spot on with the right feel. These are the guys the galaxy fears.



The fan boy in me came out in this scene. The Sardaukar were poorly represented in Lynch's movie. The setting for this was great. The fact that their language was subtitled added to the atmosphere, as well as Villeneuve's distinct use of the soundtrack. Couldn't make out whether the sacrifices were male or female. It was a stunning scene though.

Villeneuve kept to the core here too. The Atreides were too strong for the Harkonnen and needed Sardaukar legions to ensure victory.


----------



## ctg

> The new _Dune_ film covers the first half of Herbert's original novel, and _Dune: Part Two_ will tackle the rest. But Villeneuve believes that adapting _Dune Messiah_ on top of that is important to conveying the full saga of Paul Atreides
> 
> "I always envisioned three movies," Villeneuve says. "It's not that I want to do a franchise, but this is _Dune_, and _Dune_ is a huge story. In order to honor it, I think you would need at least three movies. That would be the dream. To follow Paul Atreides and his full arc would be nice."
> 
> As Herbert readers know, the world of _Dune_ gets stranger with every book. By the end of _Children of Dune_, one character has begun to transform themself into a human-sandworm hybrid that becomes the title character of _God Emperor of Dune_. Adapting that transformation might be too much even for Villeneuve, but he's definitely interested in _Dune Messiah_.
> 
> "Herbert wrote six books, and the more he was writing, the more it was getting psychedelic," Villeneuve says. "So I don't know how some of them could be adapted. One thing at a time. If I ever have the chance to do _Dune: Part Two_ and _Dune Messiah_, I'm blessed."











						Why stop at 2 'Dune' movies? Denis Villeneuve wants to make 'at least 3'
					

After 'Dune: Part Two,' director Denis Villeneuve wants to tackle Frank Herbert's 'Dune Messiah' as well.




					ew.com
				




Hhhmmm, it could be a thing, but it would also mean more dream sequences as Paul travel through spice induced hazes to being the god emperor for the humanity. It would give more room for the tribe, but important thing is that Chani should become another perspective for the viewers to watch. It would also mean many more worms. And some totally bonkers fighting as the Fremen takes over the universe.


----------



## Toby Frost

The Sardaukar were quite well-done, and reminded me of a toned-down and less daft version of Warhammer's Space Wolves (Vikings in space). The book drops some pretty big hints that they're basically Nazis, so the film portrayal was surprising and interesting.

I remember reading that the original plan for the Lynch Sardaukar was to put them in armour, but it was felt that Star Wars had got there first. The Lynch Harkonnens looked much better than the Lynch Sardaukar.

However, I felt that the recent Dune, as opposed to the Lynch one, had a few moments where it felt a little bit flat in the imagination department. Each faction got a scene with loads of soldiers lined up in a drab landscape, to show that they all had a lot of guys. Fine, but the setting requires something a little stranger to me. Maybe we'll have Brad Douriff's hair and Sting's space pants in the sequel. I do like the little chanting bloke in the tower, though. He must have had an interesting job interview.


----------



## Venusian Broon

ctg said:


> Why stop at 2 'Dune' movies? Denis Villeneuve wants to make 'at least 3'
> 
> 
> After 'Dune: Part Two,' director Denis Villeneuve wants to tackle Frank Herbert's 'Dune Messiah' as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ew.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hhhmmm, it could be a thing, but it would also mean more dream sequences as Paul travel through spice induced hazes to being the god emperor for the humanity. It would give more room for the tribe, but important thing is that Chani should become another perspective for the viewers to watch. It would also mean many more worms. And some totally bonkers fighting as the Fremen takes over the universe.


A Dune Messiah movie would at least complete (sort of) the Paul Arteides arc. (He does appear in _Children of Dune, _but that book is the start of Leto's arc, and he's more of a secondary character in that book.) 

_Messiah _is really Paul's fall and what he does to ensure that his son, Leto, becomes _the _God Emperor. It's also his failure to handle what needs to be done for the fuure as well... although again we only really find out with _Children _and _God Emperor _why this is the case. Essentially he gives the job to Leto. Bad parent.


----------



## svalbard

If part 2 is successful I would hope we would see Dune Messiah.


----------



## BAYLOR

Venusian Broon said:


> A Dune Messiah movie would at least complete (sort of) the Paul Arteides arc. (He does appear in _Children of Dune, _but that book is the start of Leto's arc, and he's more of a secondary character in that book.)
> 
> _Messiah _is really Paul's fall and what he does to ensure that his son, Leto, becomes _the _God Emperor. It's also his failure to handle what needs to be done for the fuure as well... although again we only really find out with _Children _and _God Emperor _why this is the case. Essentially he gives the job to Leto. Bad parent.



Paul had no good choices in front of him and knew it.


----------



## Venusian Broon

BAYLOR said:


> Paul had no good choices in front of him and knew it.


Perhaps. However, he knew there was one "good" choice - as he had the full power of prescience (basicallly the path taken by Leto in _God Emperor) - _which was the only way that humanity would survive in the long-term. However he did not have the courage to take it himself.


----------



## ctg

> For _Dune Part 1 _writer-director Denis Villeneuve, it’s great news too, but unlike the fans he has a bigger issue: actually making the movie in time.
> 
> “It’s fantastic news, but it’s also kind of a burden,” the director told the Hollywood Reporter. “The good news is that a lot of the work has been done already regarding design, casting, locations and writing. So we’re not starting from scratch. It’s not a long period of time, but I will try to face that challenge because it’s important for me that the audience sees _Part Two_ as soon as possible. It’s not a sequel where it’s another episode or another story with the same characters. It actually has direct continuity to the first movie. It’s the second part of the big huge movie that I’m trying to do. So the sooner the better.”
> 
> In the same interview, Villeneuve admits production probably wouldn’t start until fall of 2022 (“Even that would be fast,” he said)—leaving only a year for both production and post-production. It’s not impossible, of course, but it’s not the easiest thing either with a film of that size. Thankfully, Villeneuve said he feels reenergized thanks to the positive reactions the film has been getting. “To know that people are enjoying the movie and that the movie has created enthusiasm, it does give me the necessary energy to do _Part Two,” _he said. _“_Even from a very egocentric point of view, that joy gives me energy. That’s what I will say. If it was the opposite and nobody had shown up to the theater, I don’t know where I would find the necessary stamina to face the challenge of _Part Two_.”
> 
> And, as we’d previously reported, that energy could even carry over to the next book in Frank Herbert’s Dune series, _Dune Messiah_. “If things go well with _Part Two_, I could foresee the idea of maybe doing a third movie, _Dune Messiah_. That would make sense to me,” the director said. “After that, to answer your question, I think that I will make some other movies; let’s call them big movies regarding their ambition and scope. And later on, when I’m too tired to do that, I will go back to some smaller projects. [_Laughs_.] But for now, I have the energy to do this.”











						Dune Part 2 Release Date Is Slightly Worrisome for Denis Villeneuve
					

The sequel is scheduled to come out in October 2023, but production won't start until late 2022.




					gizmodo.com
				




Does it mean he doesn't have a script ready?


----------



## Elckerlyc

ctg said:


> Does it mean he doesn't have a script ready?



I think it means Villeneuve has a busy schedule (among which "Dune: The Sisterhood"), which doesn't allow him to start any sooner with Part 2.
The script is already written AFAIK.


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Venusian Broon said:


> View attachment 83349
> 
> The representatives of the guild were the guys with the orange cloud of melange in the bubble helmets behind the Imperial herald. When the camera was close enough you could see a human face inside. They are in the blur at the back of this photo I found t'internet
> 
> However, I'm sure they are not a 'full' Navigator, but one on the journey to perhaps become one, as Villeneuve presents a lot of the visuals very much more in-line with the book description. A real guild navigator would be an extremely distorted human.



Concept art of the early stage navigators here:



Spoiler: Early Stage Navigators


----------



## Toby Frost

Of course, the one thing that Villeneuve's Dune lacks is a proliferation of weird, tiny dogs.







I have no idea why House Atreides is overrun with pugs, but there are a lot of them.






All hail Muad'dog!


----------



## HareBrain

Toby Frost said:


> I have no idea why House Atreides is overrun with pugs


Given their inexplicable popularity with celebs now, I'd say it's weirdly prophetic. In 20,000 years (or whatever) time they'll be the only breed left.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

I also miss Lynch's navigators. That early scene in his film is stunning.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

Regarding the Fremen scene at the end, I noticed the rider, but it looked a bit out of scale. Not sure why. For me, the only no-no was bagpipes.


----------



## Toby Frost

Stephen Palmer said:


> I also miss Lynch's navigators. That early scene in his film is stunning.



True. I worry that the new version is going to miss those opportunities.

Bagpipes are always a no-no for me.


----------



## BAYLOR

Toby Frost said:


> Of course, the one thing that Villeneuve's Dune lacks is a proliferation of weird, tiny dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea why House Atreides is overrun with pugs, but there are a lot of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All hail Muad'dog!



 It  was later revealed that those Pugs were  actually Harkonnen deep cover spies trained by Ted Salad ,  super spy, master of disguise and arch nemesis of  Mr Neutron .  The Duke's pug was both ring leader and  Dr  Yueh's handler.


----------



## Foxbat

Mark Kermode says he likes it and I find that I tend to like what he does so I live in hope. I probably won’t get a chance to see this at the cinema so I’ll just have to wait for the DVD release.

 As for the look of navigators (and others within that guild) we should remember that when we say ‘navigator’ most of us are almost always talking about a third-stage navigator. Stages one and two I presume being a less distorted human. 

And as for bagpipes….what’s the problem? You’ve never truly experienced them until you’ve gone for a whizz in a tiny pub toilet and found two pipers using the place to tune up. It’s not as if I could say anything, I knew them both to be off-duty coppers.

I’m sure that’s why I have tinnitus now.


----------



## Venusian Broon

Foxbat said:


> Mark Kermode says he likes it and I find that I tend to like what he does so I live in hope. I probably won’t get a chance to see this at the cinema so I’ll just have to wait for the DVD release.
> 
> As for the look of navigators (and others within that guild) we should remember that when we say ‘navigator’ most of us are almost always talking about a third-stage navigator. Stages one and two I presume being a less distorted human.
> 
> And as for bagpipes….what’s the problem? You’ve never truly experienced them until you’ve gone for a whizz in a tiny pub toilet and found two pipers using the place to tune up. It’s not as if I could say anything, I knew them both to be off-duty coppers.
> 
> I’m sure that’s why I have tinnitus now.


It's a pity you can't get out to the cinema Foxbat. I saw it on an IMAX screen and it was spectacular and so immersive. When you first see a sandworm in the wild in the film, the cinema was essentially physically shaking because of the sound. To recreate that with a home setup, you will get complaints and the police making a visit.


----------



## ctg

> Arrakis presents a fantastic setting for a sprawling sci-fi adventure, and Herbert’s depiction of a desert planet was not too far off the mark, as a group of scientists recently demonstrated. The team, having an expertise in climate modeling, wanted to know how a planet like Arrakis might actually function and whether humans could really live there, so they ran a simulation to find out. The resulting model, for the most part, met expectations, as the researchers write in The Conversation. True to Herbert’s vision, “Arrakis itself would indeed be habitable, albeit inhospitable,” the scientists wrote.
> 
> In an email, Alex Farnsworth, a meteorologist at the University of Bristol and a contributor to the project, said he was most surprised by how accurate Herbert was in “envisioning a desert world without having a physics background or a supercomputer to run any sort of calculations on,” adding that Herbert “must have done a huge amount of research into the various Earth system components to understand how such a world could work.”











						Planetary Scientists Recreate Arrakis From Dune, and It Really Is a Hellhole
					

Climate models suggest a fictional planet like Arrakis would be habitable, but just barely.




					gizmodo.com


----------



## Ursa major

Foxbat said:


> And as for bagpipes….what’s the problem?


I thought this was obvious: they literally keep droning on... and on ...and on....


----------



## Toby Frost

I would happily swap bagpipes for pugs. Maybe the two versions will collide somehow and we'll see a swarm of pugs take down the weird latex spider monster that the baron owns in the new version.


----------



## Elckerlyc

I suspect the bagpipes are a secret weapon, to baffle even Sardaukar.


----------



## Foxbat

I prefer the Irish pipes, mainly because they have one less drone and are not as overpowering.

Is there a baliset in the movie? I’ve often thought the description strongly resembled a lute (or given the obvious middle eastern influence perhaps an oud).


----------



## Elckerlyc

Foxbat said:


> I prefer the Irish pipes, mainly because they have one less drone and are not as overpowering.
> 
> Is there a baliset in the movie? I’ve often thought the description strongly resembled a lute (or given the obvious middle eastern influence perhaps an oud).


I don't recall seeing a baliset. And certainly didn't hear Gurney Halleck sing.
At some point, when not being in the mood for lessons in fighting, Paul says "Why don't play a song in stead?"

This is how the baliset was seen in the Syfy series


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Stephen Palmer said:


> I also miss Lynch's navigators. That early scene in his film is stunning.



iirc the third stage navigators were a lynchian invention for the film. Herbert loved them and subsequently incorporated them into Chapterhouse: Dune.


----------



## Foxbat

Elckerlyc said:


> This is how the baliset was seen in the Syfy series


And this is a lute. Suspiciously familiar….


----------



## Droflet

And when Patrick Stewart played the role:


----------



## Foxbat

It’s a very long time since I read Dune and perhaps I’m getting confused with something else but I seem to have the impression that the baliset had some kind of handle that a player would turn more of like a hurdy gurdy than a lute. 

It looks like I’m wrong according to Dune wiki…








						Baliset/DE
					

The baliset was a nine-stringed musical instrument, lineal descendant of the zithra, tuned to the Chusuk scale and played by strumming. The baliset was a favorite instrument of Imperial troubadors. Gurney Halleck owned a baliset, and often played it while reciting proverbs or singing folk songs...




					dune.fandom.com


----------



## Elckerlyc

That does reminds me more of the music instruments Jack Vance describes in *Durdane*.


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Picard plays a Chapman Stick in Lynch's dune.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

Loving all these instruments.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

PS. Another Kermode fan here. He knows what he's talking about...


----------



## Foxbat

Love the sound of the Chapman Stick. I’m wondering if it was the image of this in Lynch’s Dune that made me think it had some kind of handle (that large piece of curved wood over the sound hole).


----------



## Stephen Palmer

When I saw that I immediately thought of the saz.


----------



## Foxbat

Stephen Palmer said:


> When I saw that I immediately thought of the saz.


I had to look this up. Found this video and it’s a great sounding instrument.


----------



## Ursa major

Foxbat said:


> It looks like I’m wrong according to Dune wiki…



As it happens, the novel contains -- near the back, in a section of Appendix IV that has the title "Terminology of the Imperium" -- the following:


> BALISET: Nine-stringed musical instrument, lineal descendant of the zithra, tuned to the Chusuk scale and played by strumming. Favorite instrument of Imperial troubadours.



Unfortunately, Herbert seems to provide no definition of the zithra... but Wikipedia, in its entry, _Glossary of Dune (franchise) terminology_, then links (rightly or wrongly) the word, zithra, to its entry on the zither, which states:


> Historically, the name has been applied to any instrument of the psaltery family, or to an instrument consisting of many strings stretched across a thin, flat body. This article describes the latter variety.


----------



## Foxbat

Unless my memory fails me, the name Atreides was of Greek origin and with the zither being an instrument used a lot in eastern Europe, I suppose it’s feasible that the zithra could have been developed from it.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

@Foxbat the saz is a delight to play. You can get a good quality one for £250. Really lovely instrument.


----------



## Foxbat

Stephen Palmer said:


> @Foxbat the saz is a delight to play. You can get a good quality one for £250. Really lovely instrument.


It is something to think about. In recent years, I’ve found myself wanting to expand a little away from just the guitar (I now have a couple of bouzoukis and a keyboard). A saz would make a very nice addition. I’d also buy a Chapman Stick in a heartbeat if I thought I could become a decent player (it looks a pretty daunting instrument to play)


----------



## BAYLOR

Droflet said:


> And when Patrick Stewart played the role:
> 
> View attachment 83623



Yes, Captain  John Luc Picard and Admiral Al  Calavicci   have both quantum leaped 20,000 into the future , and into the bodies of  Gurney Halleck and Dr Yueh ,  To put right what once went wrong , both hoping the next leap will be the leap home.


----------



## BAYLOR

Mon0Zer0 said:


> Picard plays a Chapman Stick in Lynch's dune.



Yes ,  Gurney Halleck  sings, I Wanna Rock and Roll All Night .


----------



## Rodders

So if the second part is a success, has the studio expressed any interest in adapting more Dune books?


----------



## Toby Frost

Here is a deleted scene from the Lynch version, in which Gurney plays the baliset. It looks like the end of a party, where the spice is wearing off and one guy feels the need to muck about with a guitar. It also provides some background for Kynes and the Fremen.


----------



## Venusian Broon

Rodders said:


> So if the second part is a success, has the studio expressed any interest in adapting more Dune books?


Villeneuve has said that he would like to do _Dune Messiah_, because that would finish Paul's arc. But it wasn't official, just an off-the-cuff remark. He does mention the books after...but he said they get more 'psychedelic' and much more difficult to try and put into a movie.


----------



## BAYLOR

Venusian Broon said:


> Villeneuve has said that he would like to do _Dune Messiah_, because that would finish Paul's arc. But it wasn't official, just an off-the-cuff remark. He does mention the books after...but he said they get more 'psychedelic' and much more difficult to try and put into a movie.



If part 2 is successful and there's  is no reason why it shouldn't  be, we'll  likely get *Dune Messiah *and maybe more.

Dean Stockwell who played Dr Yueh  in the 1984 film has passed away .


----------



## Mon0Zer0

Toby Frost said:


> Here is a deleted scene from the Lynch version, in which Gurney plays the baliset. It looks like the end of a party, where the spice is wearing off and one guy feels the need to muck about with a guitar. It also provides some background for Kynes and the Fremen.



Tsk, if Ralph Macchio can learn to fake play the guitar for crossroads, you can learn to fake play the chapman pstew.


----------



## ctg

To be honest, where's rest of it? If what we saw is the pace, then first book is going to be three films, not two. Thing also is I liked it, just nodding off once in those endless desert scenes. If this would have been the only movie, it would a big disappointment for chopping off a large part of the story.

The one place that made me giggle was with the worm appearance.






"Hello there, need a ride?" 

Why I thought it was funny? The whole scene is comedy, it's as if the worm is puppy or a kitten, excited to see the owner. And the Fremen were trying to deny it. They literally couldn't understand the connection between the worm and Muad Dib.

In the books, if I remember correctly they end up calling Paul's mum as a witch and the Fremen can never understand how they do things.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Well, your memories aren't entirely correct.
Paul's mother was initially called a witch by some. After they learned that she knew the Weirding ways she was called Sayyadina, to become Reverend Mother when she changed the Water of Life. Whether the Fremen understood how Bene Gesserit sisters did things or not, Jessica's abilities were known to them. The relied on it. Her coming to the Fremen, together with the son, was incorporated into their religion and long expected.

Story-wise the movie ends more or less halfway the book. The 2nd movie will be more action filled, I think, and introduce many elements that remained unmentioned in Part One. But any adaptation leaves things out. I have rewatched the Lynch film and the Syfy TV-version lately. They diverge widely, yet tell the same story and have their own pro's and cons. One can only hope for a 10 episode long TV-series to do the whole story justice.


----------



## ctg

Yeah, it is interesting on how high she rises, even though the Reverend Mother disses her at the beginning for going off script. But the Fremen worship her as mother who gave a birth to a god, and that god being Paul, full filling the prophesy. 

Writing a prophesy and filling it is hard work. I've tried a couple of times and I'm struggling with it, because you'll have to make the whole story wrap around it. Frank Herbert did amazing work with it.


----------



## Foxbat

From what I recall delving into all the Dune books…. In the early days of the Empire, the Bene Gesserit sent out thousands of missionaries. These women deliberately ingratiated themselves into all the different cultures they encountered.

The Fremen Sayadina was originally a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother and (if I remember correctly) seeding cultures with prophesy was one of the sisterhood’s tools for controlling and directing people. Jessica would know all this and use it to her advantage with the Fremen. They were a manipulated people whether they knew it or not.


----------



## ctg

Elckerlyc said:


> The 2nd movie will be more action filled, I think, and introduce many elements that remained unmentioned in Part One.


Can Villeneuve shoot action? All the action scenes were short and somewhat realistic. But it wasn't enough, when you know that there is that epic city takeover coming in the latter. If they really want to do it justice then they have to do it GoT style as grand as they can. 

It's not just that but it's the whole spectacle, that he promises with Paul's flash forwards, meaning learning the ways of the desert, becoming Fremen, adapting their tactics and then applying them in a grand strategy to give a big finger to the Imperium. 

No spice, no interstellar travel, because of the mythical reasons and the Navigator's being total junk without their drugs. It is intriguing that they showed the element for the downfall and that being the Emperor making miscalculation in the business. Harkonnen withdrawing the equipment and then having to dip into their strategic reserves. 

In strategy terms, hampering with the business, destroying the port city and then inflaming the war with the natives are all mistakes that Bene Gesserit should have seen. But they're playing as if they knew nothing about anything, until it's too late. And then they are really cocked up. 

So what Paul does in the second half is one of the most brilliant strategic moves in the SF history. It is far better than anything they've so far achieved in the SW universe. I also have to mention Foundation as we've seen that it is really trying to replicate that grandness associated to the product. And that grandness is something we haven't seen ... yet.

I really hope Villeneuve is up for the challenge, but if not, I think having Spielberg or Eastwood in the advisory board wouldn't be a bad thing. Latter one is there because Clint has supreme knowledge from making action and in his late years he has also developed that grand eye. 

I know that he doesn't dapple in SF or in Fantasy, but he has that knowledge.


----------



## Venusian Broon

Foxbat said:


> From what I recall delving into all the Dune books…. In the early days of the Empire, the Bene Gesserit sent out thousands of missionaries. These women deliberately ingratiated themselves into all the different cultures they encountered.
> 
> The Fremen Sayadina was originally a Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother and (if I remember correctly) seeding cultures with prophesy was one of the sisterhood’s tools for controlling and directing people. Jessica would know all this and use it to her advantage with the Fremen. They were a manipulated people whether they knew it or not.



Paul is not only manipulating the Fremen using the Bene Gesserit "groudwork" but using it against the sisterhood too. Their plan was to produce a kwisatz haderach and manipulate him to their advantage, but he is turning the table on them. (Despite their plans going awry with Jessica, they are still trying to manipulate to their advantage - their demand that the baron not touch Paul & Jessica gave the two of them the opportunity to escape and find the fremen.)

I like Jessica's protrayal more and more - she's 'in the dock' right at the start, and although she still obeys her superiors she's chosen with her heart to follow Leto and Paul, hence I liked the outbursts of emotion: fear, hurt and anguish. She is a superwoman, but still human. Of course she will become even more despised by her own sisters by the next film, when Alia arrives, but she will have a kwisatz haderach supporting her. 

As for the movie ending when it does...sure it would have been irritating and daft if there was no part two - I understand that's how the Golden Compass ended - but it's an adaption that is much more faithful to the book. I didn't moan when _The Fellowship of the Ring_ ended where it did.  

Oddly I felt it was a bit _too fast _paced! They seemed to have been in Arrakis for only a day or so before the Harkonnens attacked.,


----------



## Elckerlyc

ctg said:


> Can Villeneuve shoot action?



All true, but... Villeneuve may not be an action scene kind of director, but neither is Herbert an action depicter in his books.
You don't get to see much of any battle in the books. Most of it happens 'off screen', even the grand battle at the end. It are only the political 'battles', the inter-actions between the characters and what they are thinking through which he tells the story.
I don't think you should expect GoT type of battles.*

EDIT:
* Mainly because Villeneuve follows the book quite closely and he has only limited time to tell the story on the screen. (Battles are irrelevant, except for their outcome, story-wise.)


----------



## Elckerlyc

Venusian Broon said:


> Oddly I felt it was a bit _too fast _paced! They seemed to have been in Arrakis for only a day or so before the Harkonnens attacked.,


Having just reread the book my impression was perhaps a few weeks, no longer. Most of all I was surprised to see read that the assassination attempt on Paul was on the same day they arrived at Arrakeen. 
What we think we remember from the books may already have been tainted by film and TV-serie adaptations.


----------



## ctg

Showing the grand battle would be a big thing going for the audience and it would go long way along with the recent epic productions. I, for one, want to see the worms swarming the city and Fremen take-on at Harkonen and Sarkauder armies.

The clash in this one was very brief and it mostly showed the doctor's betrayal very well. But I have to say that Hunter-Seeker scene is my favourite. In the book tension is up to eleven, where in this one, it is slightly under it. 

I loved how it was maximised with Paul moving into the hologram.


----------



## ctg

By the way I expect this to get at least two Oscar nominations. If not three, with one going to Director. One to film crew and last one to lead female actor (not Chani).


----------



## Venusian Broon

Elckerlyc said:


> All true, but... Villeneuve may not be an action scene kind of director, but neither is Herbert an action depicter in his books.
> You don't get to see much of any battle in the books. Most of it happens 'off screen', even the grand battle at the end. It are only the political 'battles', the inter-actions between the characters and what they are thinking through which he tells the story.
> I don't think you should expect GoT type of battles.*
> 
> EDIT:
> * Mainly because Villeneuve follows the book quite closely and he has only limited time to tell the story on the screen. (Battles are irrelevant, except for their outcome, story-wise.)


Good point. Herbert is prominetly a writer of ideas and political machinations, not so much action. The Fremen Jihad that kills 61 billion people and conquers hundreds of worlds is mentioned only in passing or from occasional flashback/forward.

 In military terms, Herbert is all about the 'Grand Strategic' not about the operational or the tactical (there is some ''tactical' I suppose, but only when it's very important for the character).

The MCU has the main characters solve problems via punching and action, Paul solves his problems via leadership and politics (and his ability to see the future, of course...) Eisenhower, Monty and Zhukov didn't defeat the German army by individually leaping into the German trenches and killing thousands with their superpowers, or flying to Berlin and taking on Hitler one-on-one.


----------



## Venusian Broon

Elckerlyc said:


> Having just reread the book my impression was perhaps a few weeks, no longer. Most of all I was surprised to see read that the assassination attempt on Paul was on the same day they arrived at Arrakeen.
> What we think we remember from the books may already have been tainted by film and TV-serie adaptations.


The assassination time period makes sense, I think, given that the Harkonnen was bricked in and only had a limited amount of time before his death - and he would have assumed that they would have been searching for him, so get the attempt in as soon as he could.


----------



## farntfar

I haven't read the previous entries, prefering to avoid spoilers before I saw it.
So here are my comments, fresh from seeing it. Sorry if I'm repeating things others have already said.

I didn't like the beginning, but that's not really important.

Paul was better than the Lynch version
as was Leto and Stilgar.

I preferred Francesca Annis as Jessica, but found that both versions made her less interesting than the book.

Sian Phillips was far better than Charlotte Rampling as the Reverend Mother, but then we saw and heard so little of Ms. Rampling in this one that if it had actually been Charlotte Gainsbourg instead, I wouldn't have been able to tell.

Gurney Halleck and Thufir Hawat were both far better in the Lynch version, as was the Baron.
 Although they had gone to considerable effort to portray it, this one's nastiness and especially his obesity were less effective than the Lynch Baron. (And what was the regeneration tank idea in the final minutes.)

Beast Rabban however was quite well done.

Making Dr Keynes a woman was interesting, but changed nothing in terms of the plot. 

I liked the Lexx type ornithopters. 

Overall it was too noisy (music and effects.). Also I felt that if I hadn't read the book, I wouldn't have understood much of it.

It will be interesting to see how the second part goes. The first half of the book was in many ways just the prologue for the second.


----------



## ctg

Journey into the making of 'Dune' with Insight Edition's 'The Art and Soul of Dune' (exclusive)
					

"Dune" executive producer Tanya Lapointe takes us on a stellar trip behind the scenes of the epic sci-fi movie.




					www.space.com


----------



## Foxbat

I may have to buy this


----------



## ctg

Foxbat said:


> I may have to buy this


be quick about it, if you want the signed copy, because there's only 500 of them


----------



## farntfar

One other comment.
Whilst including it, the film seems to have rendered the Gom Jabbar test almost entirely meaningless and without emotional value. Another example of where you would really have had no idea what it was about if you hadn't read the book.


----------



## ctg




----------



## Foxbat

After watching that trailer, I understand why everybody’s complaining about the bagpipes.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Are all Honest Trailers like this? Horrible. Which shows my age, I suppose.


----------



## ctg

Elckerlyc said:


> Are all Honest Trailers like this? Horrible. Which shows my age, I suppose.


They are all honest, no buttering or putting on bling. They are funny, because they are so truthful. It might feel like collage humour, but it's not. It's part of the internet pop culture and it was brought up by people getting fed up with Hollywood lies.


----------



## Toby Frost

Most internet comedy is very poor.

The more I think about it, the more I like the broad sweep of the recent version and the details and characterisation of Lynch's version, especially for House Atreides. Villeneuve told the story far better, and made a much better film, but I prefer the way that Lynch depicted it.


----------



## ctg




----------



## Toby Frost

Well, I volunteered to review both Dunes for Fantasy Faction, so that should be interesting (at least for me!). I'll post a link when they go up.


----------



## ctg

This might help you Toby. 



> Your chance to watch _Dune_ at home is over. For a month, the hit sci-fi spectacle from filmmaker Denis Villeneuve was both in theaters as well as streaming on HBO Max. However, that window has now closed, which means if you want to see _Dune_, you can either go to a theater or wait at home. Thankfully, the wait is rather brief.
> 
> Warner Bros. just announced that _Dune_ will come to most digital platforms on December 3 for $30 to buy or $25 to rent. It’ll then come to DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K on January 11 with a slew of extras. Here’s the list of extras:
> 
> 
> _The Royal Houses_
> _Filmbooks: House Atreides_
> _Filmbooks: House Harkonnen_
> _Filmbooks: The Fremen_
> _Filmbooks: The Spice Melange_
> _Inside Dune: The Training Room_
> _Inside Dune: The Spice Harvester_
> _Inside Dune: The Sardaukar Battle_
> _Building the Ancient Future_
> _My Desert, My Dune_
> _Constructing the Ornithopters_
> _Designing the Sandworm_
> _Beware the Baron_
> _Wardrobe from Another World_
> _A New Soundscape_
> The DVD only has the feature called “The Royal Houses.”











						Dune Is Coming Home (Again) Sooner Than You Think
					

The hit Denis Villeneuve film will be streaming digitally next week, and on Blu-ray with extras soon after.




					gizmodo.com
				









						Dune [DVD] [2021]: Amazon.co.uk: Timothée Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin, Stellan Skarsgård, Dave Bautista, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Zendaya, Chang Chen, Sharon Duncan-Brewster, Charlotte Rampling, Jason Momoa, Javier Bardem,
					

Shop Dune [DVD] [2021]. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



					www.amazon.co.uk
				









AMZ cock up. I doubt, the next version is going to take 3 years to come out. So wait for the January slot to open up. Alternatively use your local shops and avoid amazon.


----------



## Toby Frost

Thanks!


----------



## Stephen Palmer

BAYLOR said:


> Dean Stockwell who played Dr Yueh  in the 1984 film has passed away .


I knew I recognised him from somewhere!


----------



## Av Demeisen

I thought the film was mesmerizing. A shame so many here were disappointed.


----------



## ctg

> “I tried to see _Dune_ in IMAX but when I went to buy tickets, all the screenings were _Eternals_.” I heard this several times in the past few weeks as friends headed out to see Denis Villeneuve’s _Dune_, only to realize all the IMAX screens had been taken over by Marvel’s latest. But like the Harkonnens to Arrakis, _Dune_ is coming back.
> 
> IMAX has officially announced that on December 3, the sci-fi epic will return to its theaters for a limited time. (Probably for two weeks, until _Spider-Man: No Way Home_ arrives on December 17.) Tickets are on sale now with more showtimes and screens coming on November 29. December 3 is also the day _Dune_ arrives on demand, but unless your screen is bigger than your entire home, IMAX will be a much, much better presentation.
> 
> Villeneuve filmed _Dune_ for IMAX so, in the format, you see between 26 and 40% more image, depending on the location. It truly feels like the planet of Arrakis completely engulfs you and, much like Paul Atreides himself, you can find yourself enamored by this whole new world.











						Dune Is Returning to IMAX for a Limited Time
					

Did Eternals prevent you from heading to Arrakis in IMAX? Good news: Warner Bros. is bringing Dune back.




					gizmodo.com
				












						Dune
					

Beyond fear, destiny awaits. Experience Dune in IMAX.




					www.imax.com


----------



## ctg

> In the buildup to Denis Villeneuve’s _Dune__, _it seemed like Zendaya sure was gonna be in more of it than she actually was. The trailers implied that her character Chani would be more than a girl who haunts—or graces, depending on your POV—the dreams of Timothée Chalamet’s Paul Atreides, while the actual film itself rather noticeably came up short in that regard. Fortunately, and perhaps obviously, she’ll be much more of a character in the sequel.
> 
> Speaking to Deadline for their cover story on the surprise box office hit, Zendaya promised that Chani’s story will explored much more in the upcoming second act. “I can be there for longer, which is cool,” she joked. Prior to being cast, and before the film had even begun casting, she’d thrown her name out there — this would’ve been before she headlined HBO’s _Euphoria _(and presumably had just the one Spider-Man movie under belt), and she knew she didn’t have anything to really prove she could be in a sci-fi film.
> 
> Though her time on set was short, she had nothing but positive things to say about her time filming in Jordan. “Denis is great at giving you structure, but then also giving you freedom within it,” she said. “I could come to it with a sense of who Chani was...I felt immediately connected to her. I wish I had more time with her, and with everybody. I didn’t want to leave.” By the time she arrived in Jordan, she got to meet everyone already kitted out in their stillsuits, which was “a very cool way to be introduced to everyone, pretty much in their character essentially.”
> 
> Later in the cover story, Chalamet himself is asked about Zendaya, and he went full wife guy mode. “Zendaya _is _Chani, and it’s incredible to witness,” he gushed. He described the scene of her pulling her mask down as a pretty big deal, both in the film and on set: “On the day, it was like, Holy sh*t, Chani has arrived.” Knowing that the love between Paul and Chani will live on and endure throughout the books, he had some pretty glowing things to say that should make fans of the novels happy. “Not only was the relationship between us alive in Jordan, and not only does it live on the screen now, it was there just at the first chemistry read. It felt obvious.”











						Zendaya Promises She'll Be in More of Dune: Part Two
					

The former Meechee and current Chani promises she'll be more than fleeting dreams.




					gizmodo.com


----------



## BAYLOR

Av Demeisen said:


> I thought the film was mesmerizing. A shame so many here were disappointed.



It's success mean we get part 2 and probably more.


----------



## BAYLOR

Stephen Palmer said:


> I knew I recognised him from somewhere!



He was a terrific actor, no matter what role.


----------



## Bren G

I had seen it and really wanted to like it. Sadly I didn't but I'm in a small minority in that respect. Here's my *non-spoiler quick review* if interested as to why.


----------



## BT Jones

Elckerlyc said:


> Are all Honest Trailers like this? Horrible. Which shows my age, I suppose.


I have to say Honest Trailers are a bit of a guilty pleasure for me; crude and juvenile, but there's an occasional pearler in there, and they aren't overly cynical or critical (they were very, very kind to The Last Jedi, for instance).

As for the film itself, I agree with lots of what @farntfar said.  There were one or two elements of Lynch's version that were better with respect to casting (Skarsgard was definitely ineffective for me) and also the musical score (Zimmer is a master manipulator and a great synthesist, but he is no classic composer of orchestra), but I preferred 90% of Villeneuve's film, certainly in terms of visuals, narrative style (no hideous inner thought exposition), and accessibility.  Yes, I also felt slightly let down by getting only half the story (genuinely had no idea until I saw 'part one' appear on screen), but I'd prefer 2 x great 2.5 hrs movies than one incoherent 3 / 3-5 hr movie, which is what it would have been otherwise.

I love Villeneuve's movies and he is one of the best sci-fi directors around, but his movies consistently fall short of the very top rung.  It sounds harsh to criticise a director for a string of 8/10 movies (Sicario, Arrival, Blade Runner 2049, and now Dune), but there's just that missing something for me that makes them fall frustratingly short of greatness.  Pacing is definitely an issue; maybe he needs a different editor.  I think we know he can do stunning, moody visuals, and deliver atmosphere and nuance in spades.  I just think there's a bit of a spark that's missing; a pounding, edge-of-your-seat action sequence; some sweeping, emotive music (picking Hans Zimmer is a bit of a cop-out these days, as was the case with James Bond); more humour (his movies always seem to be quite mopey and dour); and just a tighter overall end product.

Still, more than happy to buy a ticket for the next one.


----------



## Foxbat

I love the look of Villeneuve’s movies but the pacing has always been a killer for me. They remind me of a person you ask a simple question of and get a long convoluted answer  when a simple yes or no will do. Infuriating.

Looks like I’ll be able to buy a copy on Jan 11th. I’m looking forward to seeing it and making up my own mind. I‘ve got a soft  spot for Dune so I’m hoping that combined with Villeneuve’s visuals will trump all other issues


----------



## ctg

Lynch Dune is in Netflix now.


----------



## ctg

Will we get sandworm action figurines next?


> On July 5, 2022 Abrams ComicArts will publish _Dune: The Graphic Novel, Book 2 Muad’Dib_. The story has been adapted by Brian Herbert (son of Frank Herbert) and Kevin J. Anderson, and the book features illustrations by artists Raúl Allén and Patricia Martín.
> 
> The graphic novel picks up the _Dune_ saga where this year’s Part 1  left off, and covers the next phase of the story, which is likely to appear in part two of Denis Villeneuve’s films: Paul Atreides and his mother Lady Jessica are on the run after their family was betrayed and decimated by the Harkonnens. They find themselves in the desert looking for the Fremen, the native people of Arrakis, and Paul becomes a huge part of their world, changing Arrakis forever.
> 
> The cover of the graphic novel, painted by comic book legend Bill Sienkiewicz, features everyone’s favorite Dune creature, the sandworm. These creatures play a crucial role in the Fremen’s lives and belief system... but the book will certainly explain that more.











						Return to Arrakis In Dune The Graphic Novel Part 2
					

io9 exclusively reveals the cover and launch date of the upcoming comic adaptation of the novel and hit film.




					gizmodo.com
				




... wait. I went and did image search, this was available at 84.


----------



## Rodders

I always felt that the Dune toys were a bit inappropriate as the tone of both the book and movie are very adult.


----------



## Toby Frost

I think that happened a lot back in the days, when SF films were trying to work out how to cash in on the success of Star Wars and its toys. Robocop and Aliens had their own lines of toys! There is even a Dune colouring book. You might as well get some sand-coloured paint and a big brush.


----------



## Foxbat

Rodders said:


> I always felt that the Dune toys were a bit inappropriate as the tone of both the book and movie are very adult.


I agree. I’d still buy them though


----------



## Vince W

Foxbat said:


> I love the look of Villeneuve’s movies but the pacing has always been a killer for me. They remind me of a person you ask a simple question of and get a long convoluted answer  when a simple yes or no will do. Infuriating.
> 
> Looks like I’ll be able to buy a copy on Jan 11th. I’m looking forward to seeing it and making up my own mind. I‘ve got a soft  spot for Dune so I’m hoping that combined with Villeneuve’s visuals will trump all other issues


You might want to rent it first. I've finally seen Villeneuve's take on Dune. My first thoughts are that it wasn't terrible but it didn't bowl me over either.

Villeneuve was perhaps a bit more faithful to the book but he managed to obliterate any depth the story has. Significant characters are paper thin and pointless (RM Mohaim, Gurney Halleck, Thufir Hawat, Piter deVries, Shadout Mapes). Villeneuve ripped the heart out of the gom jabbar scene, the hunter-seeker scene, the death of Jamis, and others. 

I found the colour palettes used to be dull and uninteresting.

I think this film skimmed the surface details of Dune and just barely.


----------



## Vince W

Rodders said:


> I always felt that the Dune toys were a bit inappropriate as the tone of both the book and movie are very adult.


I'd buy them if they were good, but they're not.


----------



## farntfar

Going by the picture, I can't say I'm impressed by the sandworm toy.


----------



## ctg

farntfar said:


> Going by the picture, I can't say I'm impressed by the sandworm toy.


Neither am I. I know there are Dune geeks out there that would have some prestige items, but back in the 80's that's what we got. It surprised that came out at the same year as all the other big ones, Ghostbusters etc.


----------



## Rodders

I remember collecting the Panini Dune stickers.


----------



## ctg

> First up, Denis Villeneuve needs to complete _Dune_. That’s next on the director’s to-do list. After that though, he’s just signed on to helm another sci-fi classic from an absolute legend, Arthur C. Clarke. Villeneuve will direct _Rendezvous with Rama, _based on Clarke’s award-winning 1973 novel.











						After Dune, Denis Villeneuve Will Rendezvous With Rama
					

The Arrival director will tackle the Arthur C. Clarke sci-fi story after finishing Dune.




					gizmodo.com
				




Holy smoke. I know I've been one person to mention that particular book and for all this time, it has been unfilmable. Dune has had several iterations over the years, but Rama not even a cheap tv cheesy thing. Nothing. I wonder if he's going to approach Vernor Vinge next for making the Fire upon Sky "series" a reality. To be honest I think those books would me most suitable for him and he would get an equal chance of painting a huge canvas that stretches over the galaxy, but focuses on just few individuals, some who are very extraordinary.


----------



## HareBrain

ctg said:


> I wonder if he's going to approach Vernor Vinge next for making the Fire upon Sky "series" a reality.


Funny, it occurred to me yesterday that Fire Upon the Deep would make a great series (I haven't read the other one yet). Fingers crossed!


----------



## ctg

HareBrain said:


> I haven't read the other one yet)


They are very different as where the first one crosses the galaxy and in the second one it focuses on a planet that is similar to us, but the whole thing is played from a different PoV. I also believe that he has third book for our favourite character in the works or out there somewhere. I haven't read it, but the other two, very good.


----------



## Foxbat

I agree with @ctg  Very different books but both enjoyable in their own right. I looked for the third book but couldn’t find it. I’m assuming that it’s not yet released.


----------



## Danny McG

Foxbat said:


> I agree with @ctg  Very different books but both enjoyable in their own right. I looked for the third book but couldn’t find it. I’m assuming that it’s not yet released.


I thought book two was sh*t.
I'd have much preferred another story in the faster zone of thought


----------



## Foxbat

It would be a dull world if we all liked the same things 
Vive la difference!


----------



## BAYLOR

ctg said:


> After Dune, Denis Villeneuve Will Rendezvous With Rama
> 
> 
> The Arrival director will tackle the Arthur C. Clarke sci-fi story after finishing Dune.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gizmodo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy smoke. I know I've been one person to mention that particular book and for all this time, it has been unfilmable. Dune has had several iterations over the years, but Rama not even a cheap tv cheesy thing. Nothing. I wonder if he's going to approach Vernor Vinge next for making the Fire upon Sky "series" a reality. To be honest I think those books would me most suitable for him and he would get an equal chance of painting a huge canvas that stretches over the galaxy, but focuses on just few individuals, some who are very extraordinary.



*A Fire Upon the Deep * as a limited tv series could work.


----------



## Toby Frost

I wrote a review of Villeneuve's *Dune *for Fantasy Faction. I'm not sure whether it should be here or in "Reviews" or "Frank Herbert", but here's a link.






						Dune (2021) directed by Denis Villeneuve «  Fantasy-Faction
					






					fantasy-faction.com


----------



## Ursa major

ctg said:


> I also believe that he has third book for our favourite character in the works or out there somewhere.


The third novel in the "Zones of Thought universe" is _The Children of the Sky_ (2011), a direct sequel to _A Fire Upon the Deep_.

Neither having read it nor the means to read minds, I have no idea if "our favourite character" is involved.


----------



## Foxbat

Ursa major said:


> The third novel in the "Zones of Thought universe" is _The Children of the Sky_ (2011), a direct sequel to _A Fire Upon the Deep_.



I’ve searched for this previously by typing in vernor vinge or anything related to zones of thought but couldn’t find it in Amazon. 

As soon as I typed in the title, there it was - only  a hardback copy available at a ridiculous price.

If I searched through Google, I found a link which then took me to Amazon, where it was shown as available in paperback and kindle. Very strange.

Meanwhile, I’ve pre-ordered Dune on DVD. Due out the end of January.


----------



## Foxbat

For anybody thinking of buying Dune I  thought I’d mention that the DVD arrived today.
At two and a half hours long, all I need to do now is find some time to watch it


----------



## BAYLOR

Foxbat said:


> For anybody thinking of buying Dune I  thought I’d mention that the DVD arrived today.
> At two and a half hours long, all I need to do now is find some time to watch it



Based on the  clips, It looks quite impressive.


----------



## Foxbat

My thoughts:
I enjoyed the movie. It was long but didn’t feel as sluggish as Blade Runner 2049. Visually, I thought it excellent. Knowing from previous posts here that most of it was filmed in natural light, I thought it particularly impressive the way the CGI blended seamlessly. The score often reminded me of the score used in the TV miniseries. Both sets of music felt tinged by an arabic flavour (which always struck me as appropriate).

I loved the ornithopters and how the resembled mechanical dragon flies. They looked impractical until the wings folded back when they went into a dive. This, I felt, helped give the design some form of credibility.  Another nice touch was the desert mouse (maud’ dib?) seen to be using its ears as dew collectors.

The one thing that I thought odd was the decision to ignore the most striking element of a mentat (red stained lips from the juice of sapho). Instead, they seemed to have a small, square tattoo on their bottom lip. Why, I wonder, was it so important to change this?

As for the bagpipes: I didn’t mind them but maybe that’s because, being a scot, I’m so used to hearing them.

Overall, a good movie slightly missing out on greatness. I have high hopes for part two.


----------



## Foxbat

I’ve been pondering on the possible content and direction (beyond the obvious conclusion of the story) of part two.

The next paragraph might contain spoiler material if you haven’t seen the movie (but I can’t get the spoiler button to work)

One thing that I found strange was changing the manner of the death of Keynes. Whether meant or not, the original manner of his (or in the movie’s case, her) demise gave a telling hint at the ecology of the planet and the relationship between spice and worm. In Lynch’s version, Paul asks early on if there is a relationship there. In this latest version, nobody appears to raise this question, Instead, we have a rather simplistic, revenge form of  passing for Keynes.

Is this change more than just pandering to a more simplistic cinematic alternative? Is Villeneuve deliberately trying to make us look in the wrong direction, and if so, why? The conclusion I draw is that much of the second movie will deal with the planet’s ecology as well as concluding the story.

Perhaps more importantly, will it leave a way open to a movie version of Dune Messiah?


----------



## CupofJoe

Just watched it. It was okay. I think I will like it better when I have seen part 2 and there isn't as much world-building.
The Ornithopters were great to look at!!!


----------



## J-WO

Foxbat said:


> Perhaps more importantly, will it leave a way open to a movie version of Dune Messiah?


That's Villeneuve's overall plan, should fate allow it anyhow. The first three books as a trilogy. After that he'd prefer to move on and let someone else sit in the director's chair.


----------



## BAYLOR

The film is  huge hit , and and warning crucial acclaim.  Wouldn't it be cool if it won the Oscar  for best picture?


----------



## Mon0Zer0




----------



## BAYLOR

Mon0Zer0 said:


>



Elmo will  be in part 2 .


----------



## Toby Frost

Well, we've not seen the Emperor yet, or a Guild Navigator. 

"How many tons of Spice have we mined from Arrakis? One - ah, hah, hah! Two - ah, hah, hah..."


----------



## ctg




----------



## Servomoore

Here is, in my opinion, a nicely balanced review of the movie, aside from my issues with the old man grumbling about the state of movies today: Dune, Part One


----------



## Toby Frost

A short, interesting review of David Lynch's version, written in 2014:









						The Messy, Misunderstood Glory of David Lynch's Dune
					

The deeply flawed film version of Frank Herbert's novel was universally hated when it premiered 30 years ago, but it still successfully brought much of the classic sci-fi novel to life.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## BAYLOR

Toby Frost said:


> A short, interesting review of David Lynch's version, written in 2014:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Messy, Misunderstood Glory of David Lynch's Dune
> 
> 
> The deeply flawed film version of Frank Herbert's novel was universally hated when it premiered 30 years ago, but it still successfully brought much of the classic sci-fi novel to life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com



Visually , Lynch's version captures Dune .  But trying compress the whole complex story into 2 plus hours was never going to work and,  it really didn't work at all.  Im thinking  that Lynch's  version would have been far  better had he been able to make the film in two parts  like the current incarnation is doing.   With 4 plus hours to work with , the results would have been far better.


----------



## farntfar

A fair enough comment by both Baylor and the article.

But looked at the other way round, Villeneuve's version makes a better film but a worse representation of the book.
Gone is any meaning to the Gom Jabbar, and thus any feeling ing for who the Bene Gesserit are. Gone is any really impression of the utter vileness of the Baron or the thoughtless evil of Beast Rabban.
All of which are pretty central to the story.

But better ornithopters, and a fancier vision of a sandworm's mouth. So the film critics are happy.


----------



## BAYLOR

farntfar said:


> A fair enough comment by both Baylor and the article.
> 
> But looked at the other way round, Villeneuve's version makes a better film but a worse representation of the book.
> Gone is any meaning to the Gom Jabbar, and thus any feeling ing for who the Bene Gesserit are. Gone is any really impression of the utter vileness of the Baron or the thoughtless evil of Beast Rabban.
> All of which are pretty central to the story.
> 
> But better ornithopters, and a fancier vision of a sandworm's mouth. So the film critics are happy.


Im so glad this film has become such a big hit.


----------



## Rodders

I have a huge soft spot for David Lynch's movie. I adore the aesthetic. It was the movie of Dune that inspired me to read the book. An underrated gem and a guilty pleasure at the same time.


----------



## Toby Frost

My main issue with Villeneuve's film is that it just looks so unexciting. At points it's like the Wetsuit Men vs the Motorbike Couriers.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

Rodders said:


> I have a huge soft spot for David Lynch's movie. I adore the aesthetic. It was the movie of Dune that inspired me to read the book. An underrated gem and a guilty pleasure at the same time.


Terrific film. Still love it.


----------



## Stephen Palmer

Toby Frost said:


> A short, interesting review of David Lynch's version, written in 2014:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Messy, Misunderstood Glory of David Lynch's Dune
> 
> 
> The deeply flawed film version of Frank Herbert's novel was universally hated when it premiered 30 years ago, but it still successfully brought much of the classic sci-fi novel to life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theatlantic.com


Its visual aesthetic was just about matched by the recent film.


----------



## Rodders

I saw this yesterday and thought it was pretty good. The camera work and the aesthetic were just beautiful. In really liked the cast, too (this was the first time i had seen Timothy Chalamet and Rebecca Ferguson on screen and I liked them). The acting was great from everyone. I really enjoyed the soundtrack, too and the use of different styles of music was quite effective.

I'll pick up a copy of this on Blu-Ray and i can't wait to watch it again.

I did feel that it was kind of "Dune-Lite" with so much left out and as the story is being told over two movies, it made me think about Lynch's movie and how accomplished it was. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but like Herbert's book, Lynch's Dune was very ideas dense too.


----------



## BAYLOR

Stephen Palmer said:


> Its visual aesthetic was just about matched by the recent film.



Lynch got the look and mood  of Dune right.

  If only he could have done his film in 4 or 6 hour miniseries format. The result would have been spectacular.


----------



## Dave

At last, a film of _Dune_ that actually lives up to the promise of the book.... er, well, the first 1/3 of the book anyway. If the rest gets made (anyone remember the _Lord of the Rings_ animation) then it should be excellent.

I also agree that a miniseries, or even a full TV series with many seasons, would do the story even more justice, especially now that the budget for TV, and consequently, the quality, is so much higher. However, the depictions of the ornithopters, sandworms, Fremen, the hunter-seeker, and the spacecraft, are all much more like those my mind had created from reading the book.


----------



## paranoid marvin

BAYLOR said:


> Lynch got the look and mood  of Dune right.
> 
> If only he could have done his film in 4 or 6 hour miniseries format. The result would have been spectacular.




It's a movie that pretty much requires the viewer to have read the book. An unfair expectation to be fair, but with a number of leaps and relatively unexplained happenings the viewer is left with their heads spinning (as was mine when I first watched it). Having played the 2 excellent video games (especially the graphic adventure) and thus being intrigued enough to read the book, the next time I watched the movie I knew exactly what was going on. The recreation of scenes and characters from the novel is very well done, especially the worms and the Baron.

Not seen the new movie yet, but the look of it doesn't give me great expectations.


----------



## Rodders

the New movie is well worth the viewing, Marvin. It looks gorgeous, the acting’s decent and the music is very good. It’s just focus on the main story is all. I liked it and will watch it again.


----------



## Foxbat

Much of the look of the movie is down to the lighting. Natural lighting was used extensively for the exterior shots and, although it could be argued that this subdues the colour palette somewhat, it is probably a more authentic look for a desert planet.

I’ve watched it a couple of times now and I think it grows on you. There’s no doubt I’ll be getting part 2 when it comes out.


----------



## Toby Frost

paranoid marvin said:


> Not seen the new movie yet, but the look of it doesn't give me great expectations.



It's definitely well-shot, and the landscape looks excellent, but the set and costume design is rather bland compared to Lynch's version.


----------



## Swank

Toby Frost said:


> It's definitely well-shot, and the landscape looks excellent, but the set and costume design is rather bland compared to Lynch's version.


I don't think that's a bad thing, as something with a plot like Dune doesn't need heavy stylistic choices to be exotic. However, I found the costumed depiction of the Reverend Mother, Hawat and the Baron visually more interesting than the 1984 version. So much of Lynch's Dune was ugly, and I don't think that actually fits with the depiction of humanity in a long period of stability.


----------



## Toby Frost

I disagree on all counts, but it's an interesting way of looking at it. Each to his own, I suppose!


----------



## Orcadian

For me the only version of Dune that even came close to being faithful to the spirit of the book is the TV version with Saskia Reeves, directed by John Harrison. It works because it takes its time (the Director's cut is 5 hours), builds the characters and the mystical atmosphere. And I thought the casting was superb. Frank Herbert's Dune - Wikipedia


----------



## Swank

Orcadian said:


> For me it worked because it takes its time (the Director's cut is 5 hours),


The new films will be at least 5 hours as well.


----------



## BAYLOR

Orcadian said:


> For me the only version of Dune that even came close to being faithful to the spirit of the book is the TV version with Saskia Reeves, directed by John Harrison. It works because it takes its time (the Director's cut is 5 hours), builds the characters and the mystical atmosphere. And I thought the casting was superb. Frank Herbert's Dune - Wikipedia



This one was surprisingly good.


----------



## Rodders

In have to admit that I've enjoyed all the Dune adaptations I've seen so far.

My favourite remains Lynch's version, though. Possibly because of the time of my life it occurred in. I was a teenager and the movie introduced me to the book. I have nothing but fond memories of the movie. I must confess that i haven't seen it in a long time.


----------



## Elckerlyc

I liked the first half of the Lynch version. The second half became more of a parody of the novel and completely ruined it for me.
The SyFy version follows the books more closely. Sadly, because of budget, the visuals were poor and cheap, the blue eyes distracting.


----------



## Toby Frost

Elckerlyc said:


> I liked the first half of the Lynch version. The second half became more of a parody of the novel and completely ruined it for me.



I agree that the first half was better than the second. But I wonder if this is a feature of the story as well. The second half is much more desert-bound and estoteric, while the first half has all the interesting space-empires and weird settings stuff.


----------



## Orcadian

Rodders said:


> In have to admit that I've enjoyed all the Dune adaptations I've seen so far.
> 
> My favourite remains Lynch's version, though. Possibly because of the time of my life it occurred in. I was a teenager and the movie introduced me to the book. I have nothing but fond memories of the movie. I must confess that i haven't seen it in a long time.


Rodders makes an interesting point: that your enjoyment of a film is heavily dependent on whether you encounter it before or after you read the book. If you read the book first, you will almost always find some aspects of the film disappointing. This is basically because the screenplay writer and the director are not you. 

Books are memorable for the same reason that radio plays are memorable: you have to do a lot of the work yourself. Your imagination gets a good workout, and this means everyone remembers a book differently. We all find different aspects of it unique and crucial to generating the 'feel'. So if you read the book first, how many stars the film merits will depend on how close it came to your own memory of the characters and story. The Saskia Reeves / Alec Newman / Wiliam Hurt version gets my vote but I totally get how others prefer the Lynch one.


----------



## Elckerlyc

Toby Frost said:


> I agree that the first half was better than the second. But I wonder if this is a feature of the story as well. The second half is much more desert-bound and estoteric, while the first half has all the interesting space-empires and weird settings stuff.


I didn't see all that much desert or esoteric doings in the movie.  In the books Paul Atreides basically became a Freman and abides to their rule and customs. But in the movie Atreides remained above all a Atreides. Being Kwisatz Haderach didn't gave him the ability to see along the lines of both paternal and maternal ancestry back in the past or to have visons of possible futures, but merely the ability to use his voice and war-cry as a weapon. It made me cringe.


----------



## Toby Frost

I think that just goes to show how difficult the second half would be to adapt literally. Something like that would be very hard to depict in a film, especially a mass-market film for people who had never read the book.


----------



## KiraAnn

I finally watched Villeneuve's version and liked it. There are parts of all 3 versions I like and parts I abhor. I don't know that I would elevate any to the top.

I should note that I read the book back around 1970-1971, so had preconceptions based on the book well before any of the movies.


----------



## ctg

It's in the Steam. You can access it now, but if you want the full experience, I'd wait until the 1.0 version is out.


----------



## ctg

> Back in late 2020, Abrams ComicArts released the first volume of an ambitious graphic novel adaptation of Frank Herbert's seminal sci-fi novel, "Dune."
> 
> Written by Herbert's son, Brian Herbert, with longtime collaborator Kevin J. Anderson, "Dune: The Graphic Novel Book 1" represented the very first comic book treatment of the iconic 1965 masterwork.
> 
> This stunning 160-page hardcover was a fan favorite and certified bestseller, adorned with captivating artwork courtesy of  Spanish illustrator Raúl Allén, letterer Patricia Martín, and included gorgeous cover art by the Eisner Award-winning artist Bill Sienkiewicz.
> 
> Now comes "Dune: The Graphic Novel, Book 2: Muad' Dib (opens in new tab)," the next installment of their prestige-format "Dune" adaptation, which is about to be released on Aug. 9 with the same creative team attached to further explore this expansive tale of feuding royal houses in the far future. Check out our Dune streaming guide, too, if you're looking to watch the new film or its predecessor.











						Drift back to Arrakis in 'Dune: The Graphic Novel, Book 2: Muad' Dib' (exclusive)
					

Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson talk about the second entry in their lavish "Dune" adaptation for Abrams ComicArts.




					www.space.com


----------



## interretiarius

Grandiose (in a positive way) visually and audially. It has some strong scenes as well as some okay, if not weak, ones. The atmosphere is involving. Overall, a success. (7/10)

I'll definitely watch the prospective sequel(s).


----------



## SilentRoamer

Ive watched half of the movie and Im going to watch the other half tonight. Didnt realise it was so long before I started watching it.

So far I have really enjoyed the film, great visuals, soundtrack was good, the casting has been phenomenal, with one exception:

Why did they make Liet Kynes a woman? It does not fit AT ALL with our understanding of the patriarchal Fremen, it just completely took me by surprise and I hate this sort of thing. If Herbert wanted Liet Kynes to be a woman, then he would have written the character as a woman. It just really annoys me when they gender swap a character... so I am guessing that Liet Kynes will now be the mother of Chani?

Can anyone see a valid reason for gender swapping Liet? Up until that point I was really enjoying the movie and felt like I was watching a faithful adaption. it wont spoil the movie for me (I will just ignore it) but it jars with my internal consistency.


----------



## Toby Frost

Because it doesn't have any significant effect on the story and they wanted some more female characters? Kynes is an off-worlder who has won the respect of the Fremen, so it doesn't much matter. His main practical function is to tell the Atreides (and hence the reader) useful stuff about Arrakis, and to be impressed by Paul. Personally I find it odder that the Fremen don't all look Arabic or that the Sardaukar aren't Nazis.


----------



## Swank

SilentRoamer said:


> Ive watched half of the movie and Im going to watch the other half tonight. Didnt realise it was so long before I started watching it.
> 
> So far I have really enjoyed the film, great visuals, soundtrack was good, the casting has been phenomenal, with one exception:
> 
> Why did they make Liet Kynes a woman? It does not fit AT ALL with our understanding of the patriarchal Fremen, it just completely took me by surprise and I hate this sort of thing. If Herbert wanted Liet Kynes to be a woman, then he would have written the character as a woman. It just really annoys me when they gender swap a character... so I am guessing that Liet Kynes will now be the mother of Chani?
> 
> Can anyone see a valid reason for gender swapping Liet? Up until that point I was really enjoying the movie and felt like I was watching a faithful adaption. it wont spoil the movie for me (I will just ignore it) but it jars with my internal consistency.


The reason to make some of the changes like that and removing the Baron's pedophilia is to make the film more palatable to more audiences. In the film, one might presume that the Fremen are a little less patriarchal than they are in the book.

Is there a reason that the level of Fremen partriarchy is so important to you? Does the story fail to work if the Fremen are portrayed as a bit more egalitarian when it comes to gender?

Besides which, Kynes is not just a Fremen. Their standards may not apply in the same way.


----------



## SilentRoamer

Swank said:


> The reason to make some of the changes like that and removing the Baron's pedophilia is to make the film more palatable to more audiences. In the film, one might presume that the Fremen are a little less patriarchal than they are in the book.


I'm not sure having Liet Kynes (a male character in the books, would be as problematic as depicting the Barons peadophilia). If I am honest I think it would have been better to portray the Barons paedophilia - they certainly hinted at it in the Lynch version.



Swank said:


> Is there a reason that the level of Fremen partriarchy is so important to you? Does the story fail to work if the Fremen are portrayed as a bit more egalitarian when it comes to gender?


I mean this with respect but how can you think the change has no impact on the story?

The reason it is important to me is because that is how the story was originally written and it is one of the greatest SF novels of all time. Changing it (any of it) dilutes the story, especially when the change seems to have no real meaning other than a box ticking exercise. Remember Jessica had extreme difficulty winning the Fremen over, partly due to their patriarchal nature.

What about Ghanima? She would now have access to the ancestral memories of Liet Kynes...



Swank said:


> Besides which, Kynes is not just a Fremen. Their standards may not apply in the same way.


No - Liet Kynes is the secret leader of the Fremen, something which would NEVER have happened if Liet was a woman due to the patriarchal nature of the Fremen.

It seems to me like changing the character is a tickbox exercise to please a modern audience - but lets be absolutely honest, who is going to watch an SF film and complain about female representation...

The character was written male, is a male and has been cast incorrectly, directly against the Canon of the story. Liet is not some minor role, and although a lot of Liets story happens off page there is a lot there.


----------



## Toby Frost

SilentRoamer said:


> Changing it (any of it) dilutes the story



So do the weirding modules in the 1984 version, or the portrayal of Jessica in the Villeneuve version (completely wrong, IMO) or the reduction of Hawat's role to very little. 

I was going to write a comment in more detail but I can't be bothered to argue about this kind of thing anymore. All I will say is that I think it makes very little difference at all. It's like remaking a film and having a woman judge give a verdict instead of a male one.


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## Le Panda du Mal

Toby Frost said:


> he portrayal of Jessica in the Villeneuve version (completely wrong, IMO)



I actually don't remember much about how Jessica is portrayed... which could be part of the problem. She's actually the most interesting character in the book IMO. I was disappointed they left out the banquet scene where she really gets to shine.


----------



## SilentRoamer

Toby Frost said:


> So do the weirding modules in the 1984 version, or the portrayal of Jessica in the Villeneuve version (completely wrong, IMO) or the reduction of Hawat's role to very little.
> 
> I was going to write a comment in more detail but I can't be bothered to argue about this kind of thing anymore. All I will say is that I think it makes very little difference at all. It's like remaking a film and having a woman judge give a verdict instead of a male one.


I always hated the Weirding Modules - there really was no reason for them.

I disagree it is the equivalent of having a female judge instead of a male judge - the entire position of that judge changes the makeup of the Fremen and how they rose to be the leader - you really think the Fremen would accept a female leader? It would be like having a King of the Amazonian warriors. 

Its a pointless change, it is not made to improve the story (such as having Arwen rescue Frodo in LoTR) and is done to please modern sensibilities (also only the sensibilities of a small subset of people who actually care).  It just seems completely pointless and contradicts with my head canon of the story.


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## SilentRoamer

Le Panda du Mal said:


> I actually don't remember much about how Jessica is portrayed... which could be part of the problem. She's actually the most interesting character in the book IMO. I was disappointed they left out the banquet scene where she really gets to shine.



Yeah Jessica is an awesome badass. She was one of my favourite characters in the book.


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## SilentRoamer

Finished watching the film, really enjoyed it. Great music, great visuals, really good action scenes. 

Barring my small dislike of gender swapping characters this hit all the right notes. 

Excited to see the second half.


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## Swank

SilentRoamer said:


> I mean this with respect but how can you think the change has no impact on the story?


Because it has no impact on the story. The story isn't about the Fremen, and the little peccadillos of Fremen society are a sidenote. Liet is not the "leader of the Fremen". The book makes it very clear that Paul is the first leader of all Fremen. The Kynes family were leaders of the Fremen ecological project, but at no point did they dictate how the sietches dealt with each other or coordinated in combat. And Liet's word was not even enough to protect Paul and Jessica from Stilgar when he found them.

And, Fremen are not a strict patriarchy since their religious rights are lead by women. Name another patriarchy with that set up.

Liet is a semi-outsider with a near religious following. If anything, that role fits very nicely with the way women lead religious life and water related matters. I see no conflict at all. In fact, who do you think was going to take on the work after Liet besides his one child, Chani?


You seem to have patriarchy on the brain and are spun up about it when it clearly is a big nothing in the story - like someone who feels patriarchy is important and is aggrieved when it fails to get its due. Stilgar could have been a woman and it would not have changed the story one bit, just the details of how people became Naibs. Who cares?



SilentRoamer said:


> What about Ghanima? She would now have access to the ancestral memories of Liet Kynes...


She does. Like Alia (who can access the Baron) and her brother, she has all the memories of both genders. That's why it was a toss up who was going to make the sacrifice of merging with the sandworms.



SilentRoamer said:


> It seems to me like changing the character is a tickbox exercise to please a modern audience - but lets be absolutely honest, who is going to watch an SF film and complain about female representation...
> 
> The character was written male, is a male and has been cast incorrectly, directly against the Canon of the story. Liet is not some minor role, and although a lot of Liets story happens off page there is a lot there.


It is a tickbox - one that says "How can we make this movie appeal to more and make this amazing story accessible to more audiences?" I don't know why there is the feeling that it is the ultimate betrayal to have a woman do a man's job when a woman is perfectly capable of doing so, or why people get wrapped up in what race James Bond is. Get over it - these are truly not fundamental issues. The misrepresentation of ornithopters is more of an issue than who has a penis.



Toby Frost said:


> Personally I find it odder that the Fremen don't all look Arabic or that the Sardaukar aren't Nazis.


Why would the Zen Sunni wanderers, 20,000 years from now, appear to be Arabs?


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## Le Panda du Mal

Not to mention that Herbert’s inspiration came more from Circassians and other people of the Caucasus than Arab culture.

And the top five countries with the highest Muslim population today are not Arab.


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## SilentRoamer

Swank said:


> Because it has no impact on the story. The story isn't about the Fremen, and the little peccadillos of Fremen society are a sidenote. Liet is not the "leader of the Fremen". The book makes it very clear that Paul is the first leader of all Fremen. The Kynes family were leaders of the Fremen ecological project, but at no point did they dictate how the sietches dealt with each other or coordinated in combat. And Liet's word was not even enough to protect Paul and Jessica from Stilgar when he found them.
> 
> And, Fremen are not a strict patriarchy since their religious rights are lead by women. Name another patriarchy with that set up.
> 
> Liet is a semi-outsider with a near religious following. If anything, that role fits very nicely with the way women lead religious life and water related matters. I see no conflict at all. In fact, who do you think was going to take on the work after Liet besides his one child, Chani?
> 
> 
> You seem to have patriarchy on the brain and are spun up about it when it clearly is a big nothing in the story - like someone who feels patriarchy is important and is aggrieved when it fails to get its due. Stilgar could have been a woman and it would not have changed the story one bit, just the details of how people became Naibs. Who cares?
> 
> 
> She does. Like Alia (who can access the Baron) and her brother, she has all the memories of both genders. That's why it was a toss up who was going to make the sacrifice of merging with the sandworms.
> 
> 
> It is a tickbox - one that says "How can we make this movie appeal to more and make this amazing story accessible to more audiences?" I don't know why there is the feeling that it is the ultimate betrayal to have a woman do a man's job when a woman is perfectly capable of doing so, or why people get wrapped up in what race James Bond is. Get over it - these are truly not fundamental issues. The misrepresentation of ornithopters is more of an issue than who has a penis.
> 
> 
> Why would the Zen Sunni wanderers, 20,000 years from now, appear to be Arabs?



I don't see male and female as something that is interchangeable without any effect on the story, the character and their interpersonal relationships. 

Stillgar could be female? And it wouldn't affect the story? So Pauls relationship with Stilgar wouldn't be different? Stilgars relationship with his sietch?

I don't see male and female as a set of clothes that can be donned without any change to the character - it is a fundamental part of who they are and affects their character and their interpersonal relationships.

I really don't care to the race of James Bond - Idris Elba would make a great Bond, because I don't think race informs his character, I do think however that James Bond should always be male - as this does inform his character. 

I doubt either of us will have a change of heart over this. We can always agree to disagree.


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## Toby Frost

Swank said:


> Why would the Zen Sunni wanderers, 20,000 years from now, appear to be Arabs?



I think you're right about this, in that there's no logical reason why they would physically resemble Arabs: it's more a case of living in a desert. However it's confused by the fact that Herbert uses a lot of Middle Eastern (presumably Arabic) words to describe them. I reckon the audience is meant to come away with the sense that the Fremen and Sardaukar are a 1950s American pop culture image of Arabs and Nazis, respectively, "but in space". I suppose it's a sort of shorthand.


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## SilentRoamer

Swank said:


> She does. Like Alia (who can access the Baron) and her brother, she has all the memories of both genders. That's why it was a toss up who was going to make the sacrifice of merging with the sandworms.



Does Ghanima have both sets of ancestral memories like Alia? 

For some reason my head canon is telling me that was never fully confirmed - although its a long time since I read the books.


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## Swank

Toby Frost said:


> I think you're right about this, in that there's no logical reason why they would physically resemble Arabs: it's more a case of living in a desert. However it's confused by the fact that Herbert uses a lot of Middle Eastern (presumably Arabic) words to describe them. I reckon the audience is meant to come away with the sense that the Fremen and Sardaukar are a 1950s American pop culture image of Arabs and Nazis, respectively, "but in space". I suppose it's a sort of shorthand.


I don't think any of the people in Dune should look like people in the 20th century. 20,000 years is four times longer than recorded history. If I was the director I would have cast nothing but "mixed race" actors, or I would drastically changed the way all the actors looked. Even if the Fremen have actual Arabic ancestors, they haven't been using desert words the whole time since they left earth and they clearly haven't kept to themselves if they have added Zen Buddhism to their faith.



SilentRoamer said:


> I don't see male and female as something that is interchangeable without any effect on the story, the character and their interpersonal relationships.
> 
> Stillgar could be female? And it wouldn't affect the story? So Pauls relationship with Stilgar wouldn't be different? Stilgars relationship with his sietch?
> 
> I don't see male and female as a set of clothes that can be donned without any change to the character - it is a fundamental part of who they are and affects their character and their interpersonal relationships.


Sometimes gender is important when it directly impacts how characters relate because of romantic relationships or gendered personality traits. And sometimes your airline pilot is female and the plane flies exactly the same as it would with a man in the seat. Liet Kynes is the latter kind of character. 

The Fremen do not have a patriarchy that resembles any we have. Imagine Islam with all female Imans. 



SilentRoamer said:


> Does Ghanima have both sets of ancestral memories like Alia?
> 
> For some reason my head canon is telling me that was never fully confirmed - although its a long time since I read the books.


Yes. I don't think you know Dune so well to be lecturing about what is "canon".  I may not either, but I've read the entire series at least eight times. It is primarily about how much people could change from the present. They don't look or act like present day people.


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## Toby Frost

Swank said:


> Yes. I don't think you know Dune so well to be lecturing about what is "canon". I may not either, but I've read the entire series at least eight times.



OK, I'm out.


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## SilentRoamer

Swank said:


> Yes. I don't think you know Dune so well to be lecturing about what is "canon".  I may not either, but I've read the entire series at least eight times. It is primarily about how much people could change from the present. They don't look or act like present day people.



No need to be hostile or rude. I was unsure - hence I asked the question.

I am sorry you think people need to be scholars on the books they read in order to have opinions you might disagree with. At no point was I "lecturing". I was stating my opinion and giving my reasons for said opinion.

Ill echo the poster above me - I'm out.


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## Le Panda du Mal

Toby Frost said:


> I think you're right about this, in that there's no logical reason why they would physically resemble Arabs: it's more a case of living in a desert. However it's confused by the fact that Herbert uses a lot of Middle Eastern (presumably Arabic) words to describe them. I reckon the audience is meant to come away with the sense that the Fremen and Sardaukar are a 1950s American pop culture image of Arabs and Nazis, respectively, "but in space". I suppose it's a sort of shorthand.



Frank Herbert's primary inspiration for the Fremen came from Islamic Caucasians (Circassians, Dagestanis, etc) and their resistance to the Russian empire (see Imam Shamil). Hence the Fremen language is Chakobsa. 

As far as Arabs go, the wide range of peoples classed as Arabs _today _encompasses a great diversity of physical traits so it really isn't possible to generalize what an Arab appearance is. I doubt they will be any more homogeneous in 20,000 years.


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## Swank

Toby Frost said:


> OK, I'm out.


You are reacting to a post directed at and quoting Silentroamer.


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## Swank

SilentRoamer said:


> No need to be hostile or rude. I was unsure - hence I asked the question.
> 
> I am sorry you think people need to be scholars on the books they read in order to have opinions you might disagree with. At no point was I "lecturing". I was stating my opinion and giving my reasons for said opinion.
> 
> Ill echo the poster above me - I'm out.


I reacted too strongly to your adamance about the Kynes gender question. My apologies. I did not intend to be rude, but it certainly reads that way. I was just trying to say that you seemed awfully sure of the importance of that aspect and that you may not find it so important if you were reading the book today.

I once stated something about the cool armor suit battles in Starship Trooper, and it was pointed out to me that there are almost no battles in that book. I was probably thinking of Armor and filling in the blanks.

So, sorry to be harsh.


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## SilentRoamer

Swank said:


> I reacted too strongly to your adamance about the Kynes gender question. My apologies. I did not intend to be rude, but it certainly reads that way. I was just trying to say that you seemed awfully sure of the importance of that aspect and that you may not find it so important if you were reading the book today.
> 
> I once stated something about the cool armor suit battles in Starship Trooper, and it was pointed out to me that there are almost no battles in that book. I was probably thinking of Armor and filling in the blanks.
> 
> So, sorry to be harsh.



That's ok, for my part I was probably too adamant in my views so I apologise for that. From my perspective - I have a very visual mind and when I read books I paint a very vivid picture of the people and the places. When something gets changed it just jars with my internal image of what I expect. This goes both ways though - I would not want female characters swapped out for male characters (because it would equally jar my internal consistency). 

I understand this isn't a problem for some people - but for me I see gender as being integral and informing of the character (I don't believe the character is the same character if you change their gender - even if they can perform the exact same function for the plot).

All that being said it really did very little to dull my enjoyment of the film, I thought it was great and cant wait to see what Villeneuve does with part 2. 

I appreciate your perspective.


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## Rodders

It's been a while since i read the book so i don't remember the nuances. I always felt that it was the Planetologist role that made Keynes so important to the Freman. They wanted his knowledge and experience to make Arrakis green.


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## Toby Frost

My friend Dave has seen the new film of Dune a couple of times now. I liked it more than he did, but I thought he had a point:

"I probably said this all last year when I saw it at the cinema, but it's just dull...

"The aesthetic seems deliberately bland, almost like it's a reaction against the richness and colour of Lynch. Sure, there are epic vistas, vast spaceships, tiny humans for scale etc, but there's no life. There's little to no character development either, the only relationship I understood even remotely was the friendship between Paul and Duncan Idaho... but that was effectively just thrust at the viewer by the warmth of the greeting when Duncan first approaches. Gurney Halleck is just a dour, functional combat teacher. Dad is a non-entity. Mother just seems to go through periods of distress.

"It was only towards the end when I remembered that it had been made by the same guy as did Bladerunner 2049, and it all clicked - because frankly that was boring and tried too hard as well."


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## Foxbat

I'd say 'deliberately bland' is a fair comment.

Lynch's version of House Atreides and their attire always made me think of Tsarist Russia. In Villeneuve's, the Atreides fashion doesn't remind me of anything.

 Of course, it could be worse. I thought the TV miniseries of Dune had some of the worst costume design going. I never understood why Guild representatives would dress in blue velvet  and similarly clothed pointed hats. Perhaps an homage to Lynch?


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## Vince W

Frankly, Villeneuve's attempt at Dune is a travesty. Boring, bland, and devoid of any emotion.


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## Swank

The blandness is, in part, a move to not take sides and present the characters as they are rather icons of heroism. The world looks lived-in.

There were a lot of things I really liked about the design of the film, so I would not call it drab and boring. But it is somewhat removed, and that seems like more the fault of it being a good adaptation of a very cerebral story.


I don't know of another director that does adaptations and SF that would have been better.


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## Vince W

I'd give the job to Ron Howard, if he'd take it. I've seen *Apollo 13* many times and I still hold my breath during reentry.


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## Swank

Vince W said:


> I'd give the job to Ron Howard, if he'd take it. I've seen *Apollo 13* many times and I still hold my breath during reentry.


I didn't think of him as a adaptation director, aside from Da Vinci Code. But he's going to direct SevenEves.


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## Vince W

Swank said:


> I didn't think of him as a adaptation director, aside from Da Vinci Code. But he's going to direct SevenEves.


He's not an adapter _per se_ but he really has a great touch with true life events that could be useful in adapting fiction.


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## Swank

Vince W said:


> He's not an adapter _per se_ but he really has a great touch with true life events that could be useful in adapting fiction.


I would count him as someone comfortable adapting, compared to an SF director like Christopher Nolan that pretty much just does original stories.


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## Foxbat

Vince W said:


> I'd give the job to Ron Howard, if he'd take it. I've seen *Apollo 13* many times and I still hold my breath during reentry.


For me, to know in advance how it all turns out and yet to be on the edge of your seat through it all is definitely the sign of great movie making


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## Venusian Broon

Toby Frost said:


> My friend Dave has seen the new film of Dune a couple of times now. I liked it more than he did, but I thought he had a point:
> 
> "I probably said this all last year when I saw it at the cinema, but it's just dull...
> 
> "The aesthetic seems deliberately bland, almost like it's a reaction against the richness and colour of Lynch. Sure, there are epic vistas, vast spaceships, tiny humans for scale etc, but there's no life. There's little to no character development either, the only relationship I understood even remotely was the friendship between Paul and Duncan Idaho... but that was effectively just thrust at the viewer by the warmth of the greeting when Duncan first approaches. Gurney Halleck is just a dour, functional combat teacher. Dad is a non-entity. Mother just seems to go through periods of distress.
> 
> "It was only towards the end when I remembered that it had been made by the same guy as did Bladerunner 2049, and it all clicked - because frankly that was boring and tried too hard as well."


Fair enough. Looking back at Lynch's Dune, apart from it breaking the story into incomprehension and missing the point of the actual book, it looks complete pantomime to me now. I'm sure I saw Widow Twanky. Aladdin and puss in boot are in some of the  scenes.


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## Toby Frost

There comes a point where minimalism or the like just doesn't cut it. Having the Harkonnens, Sardaukar and Fremen wear black wetsuits, grey wetsuits and dusty wetsuits respectively just doesn't do the novel justice. Dune is a novel of huge imagination, and the lack of visual imagination in the Villeneuve adaptation is, to my mind, a failure to carry that imagination across.

And the Atreides and their advisors are much better in the Lynch version.


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## Venusian Broon

I dunno, when I read all six books, I did not take away any impression of gaudy and flamboyant clothing a'la Lynch- yes a feeling of 'high imperial diplomacy' and social ossification. But then, I admit, that might be a fault in my memory and reading. I'm not much of a fan of Bladerunner 2049 - boring story really - to tell you the truth, but I think Villeneuve's version of Dune is more in tune with what's in my head regarding Herbert's universe. 

Different courses for different horses I suppose.


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## Swank

Venusian Broon said:


> I dunno, when I read all six books, I did not take away any impression of gaudy and flamboyant clothing a'la Lynch- yes a feeling of 'high imperial diplomacy' and social ossification. But then, I admit, that might be a fault in my memory and reading. I'm not much of a fan of Bladerunner 2049 - boring story really - to tell you the truth, but I think Villeneuve's version of Dune is more in tune with what's in my head regarding Herbert's universe.
> 
> Different courses for different horses I suppose.


I would agree that the current Dune looks much more real - exotic stories don't benefit from style for style's sake. However, Star Wars, Bladerunner, 2001 have fascinating costume design that looks entirely utilitarian or of the current fashions. I think new Dune succeeded with the look of the Reverend Mother, Hawat, Jessica's formal wear and the Baron. 

But Herbert didn't overly describe anyone's clothing, and if we go back just a few hundred years in our history you'll find the range of "English men's business attire" to be quite wild. So I agree with Toby in that these people living 20,000 years from now with vastly superior engineering and millions of planets are likely to have some slightly more exotic looking formalwear and even uniforms than what is shown. Exotic fabrics and cultures should yield something at least as wild as a kimono or codpiece - especially in a society that has been stuck in the formalities of feudalism for so long.

And the Atreides armor is ugly. But maybe that's a good thing.


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## paranoid marvin

Toby Frost said:


> My friend Dave has seen the new film of Dune a couple of times now. I liked it more than he did, but I thought he had a point:
> 
> "I probably said this all last year when I saw it at the cinema, but it's just dull...
> 
> "The aesthetic seems deliberately bland, almost like it's a reaction against the richness and colour of Lynch. Sure, there are epic vistas, vast spaceships, tiny humans for scale etc, but there's no life. There's little to no character development either, the only relationship I understood even remotely was the friendship between Paul and Duncan Idaho... but that was effectively just thrust at the viewer by the warmth of the greeting when Duncan first approaches. Gurney Halleck is just a dour, functional combat teacher. Dad is a non-entity. Mother just seems to go through periods of distress.
> 
> "It was only towards the end when I remembered that it had been made by the same guy as did Bladerunner 2049, and it all clicked - because frankly that was boring and tried too hard as well."




Full credit to anyone who can sit through it twice. I ended up watching over 3 sessions; I'll never watch it again. Honestly, if I'd been sat in the cinema it's the first movie that I would seriously consider walking out during. It's such a dull interpretation of such an imaginative novel.


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## Elckerlyc

I would imagine that Villeneuve has given this some serious thought and chose to not let the story be overrun by a riot of colours or outlandish designs, extravaganza's and whatnot. Like the novel it concentrates on the plot, on Paul's development. The desert looks bleak and hazy with washed-out colours due to the heat.
I think it is fitting. Granted, not a feast for the eyes. Lynch's version may have been and see what came of that approach. The plot went haywire.


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## paranoid marvin

Elckerlyc said:


> I would imagine that Villeneuve has given this some serious thought and chose to not let the story be overrun by a riot of colours or outlandish designs, extravaganza's and whatnot. Like the novel it concentrates on the plot, on Paul's development. The desert looks bleak and hazy with washed-out colours due to the heat.
> I think it is fitting. Granted, not a feast for the eyes. Lynch's version may have been and see what came of that approach. The plot went haywire.




The first time I watched Lynch's version I hadn't got a clue what was going on. Second time around, (after I'd read the novel) I understood and enjoyed it. In my opinion Lynch's Dune is for fans of the books, not for newcomers. Did he intend this to be the case? Dune was considered to be an 'unfilmable' book, and if that was the case Lynch's effort was creditable. Tbh I didn't see anything in Villeneuve's version that explains the story any better; in fact the betrayal of Dr.Yeuh seems less clear in the remake than in the original.

I fully understand why people dislike Lynch's Dune; there are a number of reasons why this could be the case, from garish visuals to comic-book villains to Sting in his underpants, coupled with an almost compulsory need to have read the book first. But Villeneuve's movie also has it's faults, one of the worst (in my opinion) is spreading the story over two movies, with an assumed runtime (given the length of the first movie) of over 5 hours.

For sure, the best cinematic version of Dune is yet to come.


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## Elckerlyc

paranoid marvin said:


> For sure, the best cinematic version of Dune is yet to come.


A bit too early to say without having seen Part II. We don't know what will be shown and explained then.
I don't see how a 2-parter could be perceived as a fault. LOTR is a 3-parter with a total run-time of  over 10 hours (12 if you watch the Extended Version). If a plot needs that length to do it justice, so be it. So much better than a rushed version that skips half of the plot.


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## svalbard

paranoid marvin said:


> Full credit to anyone who can sit through it twice. I ended up watching over 3 sessions; I'll never watch it again. Honestly, if I'd been sat in the cinema it's the first movie that I would seriously consider walking out during. It's such a dull interpretation of such an imaginative novel.



Hands up. That's me. 3 times. I loved it and the movie got better with each viewing. I also loved Lynch's version. I was hopinv for something different to that though and Villeneuve delivered. But we all have differing tastes.


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## Robert Zwilling

I had to watch the new Blade Runner several times before I started to appreciate the details. The first time I saw it was on DVD and for the tv screen it was way too dark. The fight in the dark water was almost meaningless the first time around, mostly WTF.


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## ctg

Spoiler


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