# Why do we cheat?



## Vladd67 (Jul 5, 2008)

Why Do We Cheat? The right, wrong, and why of videogame cheating. | Vladd’s Gaming World
If the game has something added that gives you an edge is using it cheating? Is it cheating if you are playing single player or is it only cheating playing multiplayer?


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## Joel007 (Jul 5, 2008)

cheating in single player lets you explore how well made a game is, and lets you see the AI and triggers from different angles. 

In multiplayer cheating defeats the whole point of playing with others in the first place: i.e. to have worthy opponents.


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## TheEndIsNigh (Jul 6, 2008)

Nicely put Joel


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## Lith (Jul 6, 2008)

Yeah, multi-player and single-player are different worlds in this respect. Cheating or exploiting loopholes in a game just for kicks is one thing, but when you're in competition or cooperation, then things like "snaking" become contentious. (Haven't played MarioKart, but I've heard of the practice.)

I used the rubberband method of leveling in FFX-2- strap a rubber band around the PS2 controller in the right area, leave it overnight, and the next morning all your characters are at level 99 with lots of spare AP and EXP. It's not technically cheating, but I didn't grind all those hours personally. The way I see it, it isn't much of a game anyway, hitting X repeatedly for hours while running around in circles, which is what any RPG turns into if you play it long enough.

There's a reason it's called _grinding_- because it isn't fun or challenging anyway.  It's just work.  Work you don't get paid for...


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## Sephiroth (Jul 6, 2008)

Yeah.  Personally, I love playing around with cheats, but I will never cheat in a game until I have completed it comprehensively first.  

Once you've beat a game, though, it's fun to muck around and see what else you can do.  



Cheating in single player just to get past the bits you can't do otherwise defeats the whole point of playing the game too, of course...except that you're only cheating _yourself _when you do that.




Agree, Lith.  About FFX-2 (which I couldn't play), and about grinding.  

But I take a perverse pleasure in grinding, I must say.  I set myself targets, and I feel good when I achieve them.

...and in the meantime, I just daydream about stuff while I'm doing it.


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## Overread (Jul 6, 2008)

For me I first started cheating to get through the levels of Starcraft - back then I was no good at all at playing and really wanted to here more of the story and more cinematics - so I cheated.

and it was not fun long term. I now play as much as I can without cheats - its more fun to beat the game I find. I also try to avoid game guides until there is a point where I simply cannot workout how to beat a level or section.

That is singleplayer- there the only person you are cheating is yourself really - in the mulitplayer world I consider it wrong to cheat to win - just as taking drugs in sports or bribing the opposition.


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## Sephiroth (Jul 6, 2008)

Yes, in the multiplayer world, cheating is a cardinal sin.  




And people who skulk around outside respawn points should be rounded up and hanged en masse, IMO.


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## Joel007 (Jul 6, 2008)

and people who screenwatch in split-screen multiplayer! That's why I only ever play co-op in split screen games 

Make more co-op games!


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## devilsgrin (Jul 7, 2008)

i would never cheat in a multi-player game. 
but single player - its open season. if its a game i'm playing for a challenge, then i probably wouldn't. if its a game i'm playing for the storyline... then depending on cheats available i would. 
One cheat i have never used is the God Mode cheat. thats the ultimate purpose defeater. Even storyline hungry me still plays the games to play the game... if i wanted god-mode i would rent a dvd and just watch.


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## Ice fyre (Jul 7, 2008)

Interesting discussion here Vladd.

I only cheat if I cant figure out how to get through a level, on a singleplayer I have never played online so I really cant say I have cheated, but I agree with the sentiments expressesd here I wouldnt cheat online or in a multiplayer game. I do use walkthroughs upon occasion as I find my myself getting lost in some games. I have a terrible sense of direction so I find first person shooters a nightmare! If a game cant be beaten without cheats IMO its just no worth playing.


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## Overread (Jul 7, 2008)

On that note console games to tend to suffer from having unbeatable challenges or unfindable stuff that need a guide to be able to find. That or they require you to search every pixel of huge maps to find that one little box hidden in it.
I don't like that as its something that most gamers simply cannot ever find - only those very lucky or those with no life what so ever ever really find them - the rest have to use guides to find the hidden things. I agree they should be hidden - but not to the extent that you need to cheat to find them


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## Ice fyre (Jul 7, 2008)

Yes indeed Overread, I agree there should be clues visual or by dialouge to indicate where these things are located. I think there are far too many games which hide things and give you no clue as to where thay are!


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## jezelf (Jul 7, 2008)

Multiplayer - absolute sin. 

There are different levels of it. Codes and such is the big one of course. Including stuff like going into the game files and overwriting textures so everyone looks bright green or similar - but it would just be on your local machine (Some games like Counter strike allow you to customize your skins).

Not everyone has the same spec PCs so lag is sometimes blamed for people cheating, because you may have a crappier connection to you it may be perceived they are cheating - or how else could they have dodged your usually masterful head shot? 

Binding Keys could be considered cheating, giving you the Xseconds edge on your opposition. Though this was once knowledge to those who looked for it, I think its now part of the UI in most cases.

It can go into other areas like bunny hopping all over the place, personally I think that's cheating - you wouldn't see that happen in the real battlefield would you? Or turning your brightness up on the monitor so you can see what's in the shadows.

Cheating can be helpful, in the single player, not so frowned on. They have been around for years. I remember ZX Spectrum, Amiga cheat stuff and the rest always in the back of the gaming press. 

Admittedly, some of us don't have the luxury to play a game for 40hrs - or even want to and now every game that comes out is issued with a Prima Official Game Guide (fancy name for a 'Cheat book' )

Would you watch a movie or read a book with someone sitting next you saying ' oh there's some guys going to burst through that door'...' he'll find a gun under the seat'...'she dies in the next scene'...'he's really his father'....'she's really his sister'....? 

I guess, psychologically, you're no longer an observer, but the lead character and you want to survive the story, avoiding death (therefore using a cheat) which is also why games, as a medium of story telling has a lot more offer than a linear experience.

But In general, with the 'next gen' especially, I think cheating can actually take away from the experience that the game developer has orchestrated with a lot of hard work to immerse you emotionally in the game, and turn it into a no brainer walkthrough. 

One of the hardest things in making games is to get a player to respond emotionally (other than anger and frustration  )as you would with books and movies. Game design and emotion in games is a big subject nowadays - it'll be a shame not to be able to experience that in the future just because the player had no skill or patience because s/he always relied on cheats.


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## Commonmind (Jul 7, 2008)

Quite often I'll cheat after playing a game to the point at which I become too frustrated with its difficulty or length to complete the experience naturally. I'm simply too busy, running a business and being a full time dad; sitting down in front of the TV to reason out puzzles or plow through hordes of countless enemies for several hours a day isn't just something I don't want to do, it's something I can't.

I want to see the world and the story that's been created for me, that I've spent my hard-earned cash on, and if I need to invoke the ultimate shield of super-ultimate invincibility to do so, than that's what I'm gonna do.


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## jezelf (Jul 7, 2008)

Commonmind said:


> ...if I need to invoke the ultimate shield of super-ultimate invincibility to do so, than that's what I'm gonna do.


 
yeah. I know what your mean.

Sometimes it's just down to bad game design. A player should be able to get through the game without impossible tasks. They should be able to complete the game without turning to a cheat.

Some games are design by hardcore gamers who forget about the average player with a life to live.


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## Commonmind (Jul 7, 2008)

There is definitely a slew of titles which suffer from that poor design element that is often incorporated where there should be innovative, intelligent problems: needless complexity, or the lack of any at all.

I remember this moment I had with Riven several years ago: I'd gotten a notepad out and started recording all the symbols and pictographs I came across, citing the context in which they were used and any hints of their etymology. Later in the game I used this knowledge to solve a puzzle and was utterly satisfied that I had, essentially, learned the code being used by one of the characters within the game world. There was a feeling of immersion and believability that could not be explained in words. Rather than playing a game, I was looking into a universe and learning how it worked.

Conversely, the majority of mainstream games consist of puzzles which are often solved with these nonsensical MacGyver'ian solutions -- the contemporary equivalent of throwing together a rubber band, an old issue of Health and Fitness, an empty apple sauce jar and a garlic press to build a space ship in that very Monkey Island sort of way. Either that, or puzzles are so simplified they're almost an insult to the intelligence of most individuals playing the game -- an obstacle that is so rudimentary in its design that its most complicated section consists of pushing a block into a block-shaped hole. The other sad truth to the latter situation is that, taking these puzzles out of the experience reveals the larger problem, that these types of games lack any real depth and use puzzle-solving devices as a means to hide that fact and space out the action sequences, so the playtime doesn't fall below the four to five hour "dead zone."

Games which get it right are few and far between, but they're experiences which are unforgettable and timeless.


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## Overread (Jul 7, 2008)

I think testing time is key to these games!
A lot of games dont get alpha testing like they should (EA!!!) and beta testing is limited. That said Riven was a nightmare! Too complex for many, but it was solvable - other games are as you say either so mindbloggling daft that solutions are hard to work out or so simple that you can't belive its real (Neverwinter nights - first campain - find the missing 4 things - there are 4 sections of town....................


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## Ice fyre (Jul 7, 2008)

The above remarks from Common mind ring true. Ballance in a game is very hard to find. Some games are too hard I have been playing Dynasty warriors 4 on easy which is no problem a bit of a challenge in later stages but when it comes to medium setting, I just cant do anything with it.

I dont think reading a FAQ or guide is really cheating if you are really really stuck. I too dont have the time to spend trying to work these things out or the patience. 

An example of my use of walk through was in Warrhammer 40k Fire warrior I was being hammered by a dropship which though I emptied almost every weapon lying around into it I couldnt beat it. Rather than throw my contrroller through the screen (I'm no kidding I was that frustrated) I checked a Walkthrough for that section only. Got the solution and felt a lot better, it was still a challenge to bring it down but I got it.


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## Lith (Jul 8, 2008)

Ditto the puzzle difficulty.  The old PC games usually had good puzzles that were interesting, but modern console games can be downright insulting in the ease of their puzzles.  The only other time I openly cheat at video games is some of the minigames in FF- my brother loves them, I _hate_ them, so I play them through once or twice to know how they work, then hand the controller over.  The games they make just usually aren't interesting...

I see a game guide not so much as a cheat but as a sort of concordance or support literature for the game.  Play the game through first; if you get stuck (actually a rather difficult thing to do in today's games), then reference it.  And only _really_ get into it on the second playthrough, when you're going for all the secrets.  Bosses can usually be dragged down with a dozen or so different strategies, and the game guide will only give you one or two to use throughout the game.  

I'm always amazed (and not in a good way) at how many games can be beaten if you do little more than hit the X button a lot.  I see these complex strategies online utilizing the 24+ types of attacks and items available, but really all it takes is another level or two and a whole lot of offense.  Makes me wonder why they bother giving you all the extra abilities...


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## Overread (Jul 8, 2008)

I have to agree Lith - on strategy games on the PC I have won many a game against the AI but building a good defence and then overwhelming them with a tank rush! Few AIs can breach a good defence unless they also cheat early game to build up faster (a cheating AI is a weak AI by programming!) and then break your forces early on - even if you survive recovery usually takes too long.
I liked games like ICO and Shadow of hte Collosus - no levels - no grunts - just puzzels in the first and in the second bosses that you had to think about to defeat - soo much fun when you finally click on how to bash that boss - and no silly X button mashing


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## jezelf (Jul 8, 2008)

Overread said:


> ... Few AIs can breach a good defence unless they also cheat early game to build up faster (a cheating AI is a weak AI by programming!)


 

Yep - that can be quite frustrating. There have been many times that I've thought 'how the hell does he get everyting together so quick! I'm still trying to get my 1st level troops trained up!' - or similiar. 

Then I realise that the AI is programed to not only know the most efficent way to build up forces, but also it's thinking and multitasking thousands of times fast than I ever could. While I'm pondering over where to place a building so it not only works well in my camp but also looks cool, he's aready marching on the attack!  

Had that in LOTR a few times.


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## Commonmind (Jul 8, 2008)

Lith said:


> Ditto the puzzle difficulty.  The old PC games usually had good puzzles that were interesting, but modern console games can be downright insulting in the ease of their puzzles.  The only other time I openly cheat at video games is some of the minigames in FF- my brother loves them, I _hate_ them, so I play them through once or twice to know how they work, then hand the controller over.  The games they make just usually aren't interesting...
> 
> I see a game guide not so much as a cheat but as a sort of concordance or support literature for the game.  Play the game through first; if you get stuck (actually a rather difficult thing to do in today's games), then reference it.  And only _really_ get into it on the second playthrough, when you're going for all the secrets.  Bosses can usually be dragged down with a dozen or so different strategies, and the game guide will only give you one or two to use throughout the game.
> 
> I'm always amazed (and not in a good way) at how many games can be beaten if you do little more than hit the X button a lot.  I see these complex strategies online utilizing the 24+ types of attacks and items available, but really all it takes is another level or two and a whole lot of offense.  Makes me wonder why they bother giving you all the extra abilities...



It's funny you mention strategy guides and FF in the same reply. Makes me think of something that's always frustrated me about that series -- another poor design choice, in my opinion -- and one of the reasons I always buy the strategy guides with these games. 

I really dislike that the majority of the side-quests, or at least the better items in the game, are incorporated in such a way that they're completely unintuitive and almost require the use of a strategy guide -- or a trip to Gamefaqs -- in order to acquire them. I would never have gotten some of the better items in FFXII had I not downloaded a map and sequential instructions for one of the game's later dungeons. It's possible some things get lost in translation -- I know, after playing the original import version of FF6 that it's possible to loose quite a bit in the transition from east to west. But it still frustrates me quite a bit. I'd like, for once, to have a character point me in the right direction (even cryptically would be fine, as long as it was intuitive and not some ridiculous ancient haiku I'd need a cipher to crack).

Here's my mean face Square-Enix ><


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## Pandæmonium (Jul 8, 2008)

I agree with the posts so far 

Cheating in single player can offer certain rewards and observations you wouldn't get normally. Me myself, I would only cheat should i have completed whatever game it was on the hardest difficulty (just me), and cheating can offer some extra play value in some games (I hark back to the old Sonic games on the mega drive, so many days of mindless fun)

Online however, cheating is really lame and should never be done (Glitching in Gears of War sucks heavily for example). As an experience player on Gears and on Halo2/3, I have come accross cheaters occasionally, even in the higher echelons on the gaming community if you will. They should all be banned

EDIT: A good example btw of AI cheating to get an advantage (especially on harder difficulties) is the C&C series made by EA (once westwood had been amalgamated). On C&C generals for example, on skirmish modes, the AI builds faster and more units than you, regardless of resources. If you try and copy them exactly (use replay or something to observe their movements) you are constantly behind by a couple of minutes. annoying


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## Overread (Jul 8, 2008)

On cheating AIs - Empire Earth AI cheats horribly! However when you go to map making mode and custom AI making the AI has the option to or not to cheat - and by default to cheat is on! Caught me out till I checked it when I gave an AI play 1 civilan and 0 resources - only to find a whole base appear!
So to get a fair game I have to make my own random maps -


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## Connavar (Jul 9, 2008)

The only times i have ever cheated are only games like GTA3 when you just wanna fool around with unlimited ammo,guns.  Not when you are doing missions and play the story mode but when you wanna play been a killer or just beat people or wait for swat teams to attack etc

I never cheat otherwise.   I even refuse to play games on easy.

I have fought like crazy in though games like DMC,Prince of Persia and others you get stuck.  People say go read the walkthrough faqs or play it on easy.

I dont believe in that , no pain no gain is my philosophy when its about gaming.  I want to deserve what i got.   Whats the point of playing a hard game if you cheat.

If you have ever played Shinobi you will understand what No pain no gain means that game made me almost cry over how almost impossible it was to play.


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## Hilarious Joke (Jul 9, 2008)

I personally am anti-cheating unless there is a very good reason.

Examples of this include:

1. When I want to play a game with friends, but you have to unlock multiplayer, I think it's okay to cheat to unlock this.

2. When I made heaps of money on The Sims 2 (without cheating) and I designed this house and all the furniture and realised I didn't budget it right when I was almost finished, I cheated here to get the extra money.


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## Julian (Aug 1, 2008)

cheating in a game to get to the end takes out all the fun, and provides no real challenge, but I guess if you've been stuck on the game for so long, you'd probably want to put your mind at rest and get to the end, or at least to the next stage.


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## Hilarious Joke (Aug 1, 2008)

Holy crap thanks for rescuing this thread Julian, I thought I'd killed it!

Uh oh, I've probably just killed it for real...


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## ktabic (Aug 1, 2008)

I play RTS because I want vast armies charging across the battlefield. When they stick one of those stupid levels where you only have what you start with, I feel cheated by the games developers and in response will cheat. I don't play Westwood RTS games anymore since they haven't learnt why people play RTS.


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## Overread (Aug 1, 2008)

that is because westwood got eaten by EA!
Since then its been bad - though generals was not too bad

Worst I hated was the unit limits in battle for middle earth - EA promised us "armies like the film" since when does 4 groups of orcs count as an army - its not even a skirmish force

[/rant]


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## Commonmind (Aug 1, 2008)

Despite RTS's becoming something of a sad affair lately, Company of Heroes and World in Conflict were both amazing games. Give them a try if you haven't already.


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## Overread (Aug 1, 2008)

I am waiting for Dawn of War 2 and Starcraft 2 
Heros appears to get very good ratings -but I want relic to release homeworld 3


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## Commonmind (Aug 1, 2008)

Most definitely agree with you there. Homeworld and Homeworld 2 were two of my favorites. Dawn of War 2 is also being handled by Relic -- though you probably knew that if you were a fan. And CoH was fantastic; I can't say that enough. I put off playing it for so long, having had my fill of WWII themed games, but I'm so glad I finally picked it up. I'm still going back to it each week, playing a few matches online.


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## Overread (Aug 1, 2008)

I think relic might make a different game but in homeworld style - they rather messed up the story for HW2 to a big degree - you had to read a tonne of online fanfiction to work out what the heck was going on - just who were the Vayger and such - it was too different and no buildup from the first - 

And I was not going to bother finding and reading online fanfic


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## tangaloomababe (Aug 2, 2008)

Originally posted by Sephiroth



> Yeah. Personally, I love playing around with cheats, but I will never cheat in a game until I have completed it comprehensively first.
> 
> Once you've beat a game, though, it's fun to muck around and see what else you can do.



I agree Seph, once you have done the game, there is little to be achieved again, so why not have a bit of fun with it.  The idea of playing a game is for it to challenge you or as a source of entertainment and if you resort to cheats your not really being challenged and I couldn't see much enjoyment if you are just going through the motions.  I once played a game, took me six months to complete it, but it was worth it in the end.


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## Commonmind (Aug 2, 2008)

Overread said:


> I think relic might make a different game but in homeworld style - they rather messed up the story for HW2 to a big degree - you had to read a tonne of online fanfiction to work out what the heck was going on - just who were the Vayger and such - it was too different and no buildup from the first -
> 
> And I was not going to bother finding and reading online fanfic



I agree with you there. Admittedly, I played through HW2 for the gameplay. I knew from the get-go, after seeing the intro, that I wasn't going to be very interested in the story this time 'round.


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## Hilarious Joke (Aug 2, 2008)

> I once played a game, took me six months to complete it, but it was worth it in the end.


 
What game, Tanga?


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## SciFiGamer22 (Oct 29, 2008)

Cheating is the future


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## kyektulu (Oct 29, 2008)

I confess I cheated on Oblivion to get spells and cash to buy armour...

In a nutshell I cheat on games coz it is so cool being powerful grr arrg


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Oct 29, 2008)

Hell, Ky, with Morrowind, I've taken the cheats a step further-like using ToddTest cheat to take whatever weapons and armor I wanted. I've also cheated for the soul gems and stuff like that. 


I cheat pretty much for the same reason Ky does-that and the fact that you absolutely can NOT get through Morrowind without God Mode-believe me, I've tried. You'd best be a stealth archer if you ever try, mages and melee fighters get slammed right off.


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## Rahl Windsong (Oct 31, 2008)

The only game that took me 6 months+ to complete were the old Ultima games, Ultima 6 through to Ultima 7 part 2 the Serpent Isles. Those games had so much content its very hard to imagine games having that much to do in them with the way games are developed now days.....

The Witcher comes close in terms of length but the slow load times I think add a lot to that which makes it boring just waiting for the next part to load. I prefer a seamless world that has little or no loading screens, loading screens = poor game design in my humble oppinion.


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## Rahl Windsong (Nov 6, 2008)

If I cheat it is usually due to poor game design and I simply can't be bothered to play through a particular part that involves me doing anything "arcade" related. When I say arcade related I mean those anoying mini games that developers seem to always put in, like the enemy fighters you had to take out in between planets in KOTOR. If you didn't make it and your ship blew up you had to go through the whole sequence of cut scenes to get to the part where you shoot at the ships again. I hate that repetious type of game play and would rather just have a "skip" button. I never did find a cheat to get me past those battles and in the end I became quite adept at shooting down those enemy ships.

Anyway thats usually why I would cheat, and I always try to complete a game before using any cheats. Quite often if you go through the game again with a few things you found out on the Net you can find things in the game you missed first time through. I have also used them to get me past game stopping bugs, so cheats do have their uses.


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