# Stay true or be politically correct?



## dwndrgn (Mar 2, 2004)

I just read a letter from a SFF fan about the use of actors on tv and in movies.  This person was saying that whenever filming a previously published work (novel or comic or whatever) the actors that portray the characters should match that character as closely as possible.  His argument was that if a character was written as black, then there was a reason and the actor portraying that character should be black, and the same for white characters.  

I thought this would make an interesting debate topic here.  I'm personally of the opinion that if there are no plot lines that hinge on the race of the character, then whatever actor could portray the character well should play it, no matter the race.  The letter writer mentioned that at one time Orson Welles wanted to play Othello so hired an all black cast to ensure that his portrayal wouldn't be off.  I think that is a separate issue.  Othello has to be a moor, or some other outsider or the work loses a lot of it's meaning.

For things like The Hitchhiker's Guide, would it matter if Arthur Dent were played by a black man?  I wouldn't think so since none of the actions in the story hinge on his being white.  If he were played by a woman, then that would be a different story or you'd have to leave out Trillian and the party where he met her.

Wonder Woman couldn't be played by a man but she certainly could be played by an hispanic or a black woman - as a matter of fact that would seem much more realistic.  To me, at least.

What do you guys think?


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Mar 3, 2004)

Most SF/F being written by largely western and white authors tacitly assumes that characters are white unless explicitly stated otherwise. However, I think that, unless the character has a surname that is clearly of a particular community (like Utjerwik or McKinley) we might as well strive to be more diverse in casting movies/serials. 

Realms of the imagination are universal - I think it goes beyond mere PC-ness to give a wider variety of viewers someone they can identify with in genre films.


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## riffraff (Mar 3, 2004)

depends, I was quite disappointed when the Dr Dolittle movie came out, because I didnt think the actor they chose was true to the charactor of Dr.  Dolittle as he was written- he's meant to be a portly middle class "paleface", not a young black guy from america.

It's true that Arthur Dent is not specified as being white, but the charactor was actually written for the man who played Arthur Dent in the origional TV series, and he was again, white middle class.  Many of the jokes in hitch-hikers are connected to the fact that arthur is british, middle class and middle aged- i.e. a stereotypical engish man.  casting a black man as arthur dent, whilst politically correct, is not canon.  

I am not denying that when western writers tacitely assume that there charactors are white that this is wrong as there are many other races, religions etc. in the west, but it is understandable considering the high proportion of people in the western world who are white. Although it is praiseworthy to try and integrate cultures through using black, chinese etc. actors in leading roles, when it is contradictory to the original story it should be avoided.


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## nemogbr (Mar 3, 2004)

Well there is the fact that wonder woman is supposed to be made from clay and her mother is Grecian.

So you'd have to go for a mediterranean look.

As for Dr. Dolittle? THey did change the character and setting to the point were the premise of a man understanding animals remains the only thing true from the book apart from the name. 

I did find it hard to believe when I heard they change the character of Starbuck from "Battlestar Galactica" into a woman?!!


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## dwndrgn (Mar 3, 2004)

riffraff said:
			
		

> depends, I was quite disappointed when the Dr Dolittle movie came out, because I didnt think the actor they chose was true to the charactor of Dr. Dolittle as he was written- he's meant to be a portly middle class "paleface", not a young black guy from america.


 The original was better, I'll admit, but I have no problem with Dr. Doolittle being black - nothing that happens is based on his being white, so the essence of the story doesn't change.  I also believe that Eddie Murphy was behind having those films made so I'm sure he was fond of the original story and wanted to make an update, and one that was even funnier than the original.



			
				riffraff said:
			
		

> It's true that Arthur Dent is not specified as being white, but the charactor was actually written for the man who played Arthur Dent in the origional TV series, and he was again, white middle class. Many of the jokes in hitch-hikers are connected to the fact that arthur is british, middle class and middle aged- i.e. a stereotypical engish man. casting a black man as arthur dent, whilst politically correct, is not canon.


  I don't see how a black actor couldn't portray a British, middle class and middle aged man.  Just because a black man doesn't fit the stereotypical view of the above doesn't mean that he couldn't be one.  I'm not a stereotypical blonde but I am still a blonde.  Stereotypes are something we maybe should discuss in another thread.  In any case, none of the jokes would have fallen flat if he had been black - they are based on his station and mind-set, not his race so it still could have been a black man.



			
				riffraff said:
			
		

> I am not denying that when western writers tacitely assume that there charactors are white that this is wrong as there are many other races, religions etc. in the west, but it is understandable considering the high proportion of people in the western world who are white. Although it is praiseworthy to try and integrate cultures through using black, chinese etc. actors in leading roles, when it is contradictory to the original story it should be avoided.


  I am definitely not a fan of being PC for PC's sake, and when the story has portions that hinge on the fact of the character being of a certain race (Jungle Fever is a perfect example - the entire story is based on race) then they should be portrayed by an actor of that race.  But, that isn't to say that other roles that don't have any race specifications could be played by anyone talented enough to do so, whatever race they may be.


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## dwndrgn (Mar 3, 2004)

nemogbr said:
			
		

> Well there is the fact that wonder woman is supposed to be made from clay and her mother is Grecian.
> 
> I did find it hard to believe when I heard they change the character of Starbuck from "Battlestar Galactica" into a woman?!!


I never read the Wonder Woman comics, I based what I said on the tv show.  On the show, she was said to have come from an island in the Amazon.

Starbuck being a woman in the new series has been a big bone of contention.  I don't see a problem with it.  I think it actually added a new dimension to the relationships.  I enjoyed the remake but that doesn't mean that I thought it was better than the original.


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## tschurter (Mar 4, 2004)

Well, until the Hulk came out, true green was definitely not fairly represented


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Mar 4, 2004)

On an aside, when Naseeruddin Shah, a very respected and talented Indian actor took on the roll of Captain Nemo in the LXG movie, I was quite amused to fnd a reviewer from the UK saying he was glad that they finally cast an Indian in that role, as in the book, but he wished they'd got the accent right... Shah's accent sounded pretty 'right' to someone who has lived in India all his life. Apparently people think that cud-chewing accent you hear in movies is how we really talk!  

This really ties in more to the point about stereotypes, but I thought I'd mention it. Still doesn't mean you should randomly change characters race or gender or sexual orientation just to be more 'diverse' of course unless it wouldnt damage the story or the fans' expectations.

Hmm....imagine a Captain Williamina Kirk, boldly going where no woman has gone before...


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## BlueSkelton (Jun 17, 2004)

I think the choice depends on whether you are attempting strict realism or a loose interpretation of the story line.  Ossie Davis played JFK in Bubba Ohtep and i thought he did a fine portrayal of the former president.  The nice thing about books is that the character can really be whatever color you choose for 
him.  That is the beauty of the written medium. In my world Captain Kirk is a pimplike black dude and Mr. Spock is a blue smurflike character. Strangely Mr. Scott retains his Scottish accent. However if you are reanacting someone else and desire that you be taken completely seriously I think it wise to keep the characters true to the author or historical description.


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## nemogbr (Jun 17, 2004)

From the TV show of Wonder Woman, Linda Carter did have the look of a Grecian goddess. 

The wavy hair and sun tan; although she could have done with a bit more lean muscle along the lines of Angelian Jolie of today's action heroines. 

As for Arthur Dent being played by someone of another race apart from a white english man. I think that in the current generation there are enough Afro-caribbean or Asian males that can portray a middle-aged, middle-class non-white english man.

Can't remember his name, but the guy from "goodness gracious me" would do rather well as an Arthur Dent type character.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 17, 2004)

Quite right, actually - the crew from Goodness Gracious Me were pretty excellent at playing on a whole range of steotypes.  (for those not in the UK, Goodness Gracious Me was/is a British comedy series, with the main engine being 4 British-Indian comedians - very funny as well).


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 17, 2004)

Goodness Gracious was so hilarious! It ran here for a while, really cracked me up. There's a new one about Brit-Indians, called The Kumars at 42 - anyone seen that one?


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## IaMaBooZeR (Jun 18, 2004)

political correctness is for the ignorant.


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## Ivo (Jun 18, 2004)

It really depends I think.  If a large number of people have been into a certain book for many years as many have with the Hitchhiker series then I would prefer the actor be as close as possible to the original character in terms of race, etc.  It wouldn't really bother me if this didn't happen, its just a preference I suppose.  When you have had the same mental image in your mind for 20 years its kind of a shock when inconsequential things like this are changed.


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## nemogbr (Jun 18, 2004)

You are correct on that point.

If a character is changed due to pandering to PC then the film does suffer. 

There was that rumour about Samwise Gamgee to be played by a female and that certainly made my blood boil.

I did enjoy Eddie Murphy as Dr. Doolittle and it was a successful update of the book. 

Treasure Island as pretty good as well. 

If I recall correctly there wasn't much flack in Western society about white actors portraying famous Indian characters.

Gandhi (Ben Kingsley?) and Siddharta (Keanu Reeves)


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 18, 2004)

Well Kingsley is actually of Indian descent, I believe his real name is Krishna Bhanji.


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## The Master™ (Jun 18, 2004)

I know, over the years, that various pressure groups have demanded that if a part in a movie or TV series is supposed to be an Indian man (for example) then it should be played by an Indian man, not a European man with make-up... But there have been exceptions, because the actor chosen was born in India or of Indian decent...

I don't think it really matters within the genre, unless specifically demanded whether a character (when it isn't part of the storyline) is played by someone who is black, white, asian or oriental...

Although, with Hollywood, it is a matter of who is bankable at the time... Whether it be Will Smith or Arnie or Denzel Washington or Billy Bob Thornton or Jacky Chan!!!

I wonder what Lord of the Rings would have been like if some of the major characters had been played by black, asian or oriental actors???

Would it have been as popular, or would people have stayed away out of protest???

If they do The Hobbit, will any of the Dwarves be black???

Would Bard (slayer of Smaug) be Asian???

And why not???


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 18, 2004)

Well, no. Tolkien was creating a new mythology for Britain. I don't think there's much room for racial diversity of that sort in a faithful rendition of his work. And a subversive, PC re-casting is the sort of exercise that is just too clever for its own good.


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## Brian G Turner (Jun 18, 2004)

The Kumars at number 42 is also great - mostly the same people, but playing on cultural stereotypes in a celebrity interview situation.  Glad you got them over there, too.


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## The Master™ (Jun 18, 2004)

But surely, as a "new mythology for Britain", then there should be an allowance for racial diversity... Britain of today has racial diversity at its core...

But as you say, if they are wanting to produce a faithful rendition, then they would have to discount a good half of the population of Britain...

Are their any of Tolkein's works which include characters that aren't white Europeans???


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 18, 2004)

Nope, I don't think Tolkien has anything on those lines.


Myths ARE typically the creation of a particular ethnic group - an expression of their deepest fears and aspirations. Across the world, misguided hardliners use old myths to validate an intolerant course of action - the Nazis held Wagner's Ring cycle in high esteem for this reason, and our Indian saffron brigade chants the names of cultural heros like Rama to rally people to their intolerant agenda. 

I am often dismayed at the way much of fantasy partakes of a very Celtic ethos by default, but exceptions are in existence. 

I'm not sure exactly what point I am making here - just a comment on the relation between race and myths I guess.


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## nemogbr (Jun 18, 2004)

Actually, for some reason when I read Tolkien and of the Numenoreans; I always though that they would be sort of another version of Atlanteans. 

In this case that would mean sort of a Grecian/middle-eastern look?

Am I making any sense?

Then the riders of Rohan made me think of the Mongols; I know they're actually Caucasion/Oriental ancestry. I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with Gwaihir looking like Yul Brynner.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 18, 2004)

Well I'm really not enough of a Tolkien expert to say. Hmmm...we need to get some Tolkien scholars in here. Know any?


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## The Master™ (Jun 18, 2004)

The Riders of Rohan had to be blonde haired Scandanavian types... Because in the Lord of the Rings, they were referred to as "straw hair" by the Orcs/Uruk Hai... Though not in the movies!!!

But the other races of man could have been from different ethnic groups... Shame not to experiment!!!


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## Blue Mythril (Jun 21, 2004)

> But the other races of man could have been from different ethnic groups... Shame not to experiment!!!


I agree. I'm one of those people who don't get too worked up when a remake isn't identical to the orignal material (unless they have left out some of the best bits of course ) In fact, if anything I believe that they should not be the same as the original. That's just boring and adds nothing new to your experience, especially if you believe that using your own imagination is always preferred to using creations of someone else.
So, as was said at the beginning, if its not absolutely essential to the work, why not change it up and experiment?


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## The Master™ (Jun 21, 2004)

Nothing wrong with contemporary settings with differing ethnic groups... They do it with Opera... (Okay, some don't work)...

But if you don't appeal to the different groups, you are missing out on a part of the audience!!!


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