# Anyone for Talking About Robert E. Howard?



## John Thiel III (Feb 27, 2017)

I just commenced reading this author in earnest, having obtained several volumes of his works from the SF Book Club. So far I am halfway into one volume, THE COMING OF CONAN, and find that I would like to have an opportunity to make some comments on the stories I am reading and perhaps talk about the author himself. Anyone care to join me in this discussion?


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## BAYLOR (Feb 27, 2017)

Robert E Howards career spanned on a few short years from 1925 to 1936. and in that time he produced  some of the most memorable pulp character s  characters of all time. Conan, King Kull, Bran Mac Morn , Cormac mac Art , Steve Costigan and many other character in stores. He wrote Fantasy , Horror , science fiction , Westerns, Detective stories , Historical stories . He was an a very versatile writer and  an excellent story teller , one the best I've ever read.  

His best friends were H P Lovecraft and Clark Aston Smith whom he correspond with a number of years, none of them ever met each other face to face because they couldn't afford to travel because the type of writing that they did pay well .


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## John Thiel III (Feb 28, 2017)

That's pretty prolific. According to the introduction to the volume I have, that's the length of his fantasy writing career, but he did other types of writing before then. I wonder how he would have been at word-processing, or working with a computer, would it have affected his writing for the better or for the worse.


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## BAYLOR (Feb 28, 2017)

John Thiel III said:


> That's pretty prolific. According to the introduction to the volume I have, that's the length of his fantasy writing career, but he did other types of writing before then. I wonder how he would have been at word-processing, or working with a computer, would it have affected his writing for the better or for the worse.




I discovered him many years age  The Ace 12 volume books.  I was hooked from the start.  I would not be the reader I am today had I not discovered  him.

He didn't make all that much money as a writer , I think the rate was a penny a word and the magazines that sublimated to were not always reliable payers because they never the most profitable publications.


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## John Thiel III (Feb 28, 2017)

I found KING CONAN in the library when I was thirteen. However, this particular edition had a lot written by other people, including L. Sprague de Camp, who claimed they were unable to find much of Howard's work, having no in with book dealers.


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## BAYLOR (Feb 28, 2017)

John Thiel III said:


> I found KING CONAN in the library when I was thirteen. However, this particular edition had a lot written by other people, including L. Sprague de Camp, who claimed they were unable to find much of Howard's work, having no in with book dealers.



I think Howard wrote about 21 Conan stories in all.


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## John Thiel III (Mar 1, 2017)

Apparently he expanded one, "The Phoenix on the Sword", into a novel, because the story has part of the same introduction the novel had, and a few of the details in the story are the same as the novel was, though in the book length they are highly rearranged, with many substitutions of events. The collection's introduction says the story went through some revisions even as a story, and at the end of the collection the original unpublished story is printed. The introduction is the one that begins, "Know, oh Prince.." I think De Camp's complaint when he said the works of Howard were not available was that they had not been published in book form, but since that time his writings have been getting published. His stories were in Weird Tales more than anywhere else.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 1, 2017)

John Thiel III said:


> Apparently he expanded one, "The Phoenix on the Sword", into a novel, because the story has part of the same introduction the novel had, and a few of the details in the story are the same as the novel was, though in the book length they are highly rearranged, with many substitutions of events. The collection's introduction says the story went through some revisions even as a story, and at the end of the collection the original unpublished story is printed. The introduction is the one that begins, "Know, oh Prince.." I think De Camp's complaint when he said the works of Howard were not available was that they had not been published in book form, but since that time his writings have been getting published. His stories were in Weird Tales more than anywhere else.



Howard left a number synopsis and fragment for Conan Stories  L Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter created took those and craft stories . The novel*   Conan The Flame Knife *didn't start out as a Conan story at all.

From what I do know of the*  The Phoenix and the Sword,  *it was originally a King Kull story.


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## Vladd67 (Mar 1, 2017)

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the stories behind the films Conan the Barbarian and Kull are actually swapped round, the Conan film should be Kull and vice versa.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 1, 2017)

Vladd67 said:


> I seem to remember reading somewhere that the stories behind the films Conan the Barbarian and Kull are actually swapped round, the Conan film should be Kull and vice versa.



In the case to he 1982 film The villain Thulsa Doom was King Kull's  enemy  none Conan. 

The Kevin Sorbo Kull  film was pretty much a rewriter of Conan Hour of the Dragon.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 1, 2017)

One Story that I would recommend by him In particular  is *Kings of the Night.   *In this story you have three of Howard's greatest heroes all in one story,  King Kull, Bran mak Morn and Cormac art.  in the story Gonar Wizard ally of Bran mak Morn  summons Kull from the past to help Bran Mak Morn Battle the Romans.

There  is a graphic novel adaptation of this one done a few years ago


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## John Thiel III (Mar 1, 2017)

BAYLOR said:


> Howard left a number synopsis and fragment for Conan Stories  L Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter created took those and craft stories . The novel*   Conan The Flame Knife *didn't start out as a Conan story at all.
> 
> From what I do know of the*  The Phoenix and the Sword,  *it was originally a King Kull story.


I regard that as the De Camp/Carter era in the evolution of fantasy fiction.


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## John Thiel III (Mar 1, 2017)

Some people regard it as criticizable for others to do stories derived from a single author, but in Howard's case we have a bunch of incompleted manuscripts left around for anybody to do with as they saw fit, he didn't keep things very tight.


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## John Thiel III (Mar 1, 2017)

Conan the Conqueror was the one I was referring to as being an expansion of The Phoenix on the Sword. I saw this before the DeCamp investigation into Howard's papers and its publication in an Ace edition may be what brought on this investigation.

It was said to be the first of the Conan stories, too, and it may have been the first Conan novel to be released, with plans of following it up with other Conan material.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 1, 2017)

John Thiel III said:


> Some people regard it as criticizable for others to do stories derived from a single author, but in Howard's case we have a bunch of incompleted manuscripts left around for anybody to do with as they saw fit, he didn't keep things very tight.



Even though they are not quite as a good as what Howard  wrote . I liked the de camp and Lin Carter  Conan stories . i have no issues with then  completing  stores from incomplete fragments or doing stories  based on Howard's synopses.   De Camp , Carter ,Bjorn Nyborg filled in the Chronology of Conan rather nicely, I thought.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 1, 2017)

John Thiel III said:


> Conan the Conqueror was the one I was referring to as being an expansion of The Phoenix on the Sword. I saw this before the DeCamp investigation into Howard's papers and its publication in an Ace edition may be what brought on this investigation.
> 
> It was said to be the first of the Conan stories, too, and it may have been the first Conan novel to be released, with plans of following it up with other Conan material.



The novel  was also  known *Conan Hour of the Dragon .   *It's  on the list of greatest fantasy novels ever written. Ive never delved deeply into the publican history of this one.


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## J Riff (Mar 2, 2017)

Don't miss Solomon Kane, Breckenridge Elkins and others. Exceptional adventure writing of the times, huge fan base in the sixties, then the other writers filled in what they could from what was left behind.


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## BAYLOR (Mar 18, 2017)

J Riff said:


> Don't miss Solomon Kane, Breckenridge Elkins and others. Exceptional adventure writing of the times, huge fan base in the sixties, then the other writers filled in what they could from what was left behind.


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## logan_run (Oct 20, 2017)

I WISH HE WROTE 10 MORE


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## John Thiel III (Oct 20, 2017)

Of course, I've finished the book by now. His characters don't fit the description of good men at all. His heroes cut men down in their tracks and sell out the bandits they congregate with. The only morality in them is "stay alive".  Conan doesn't always try to do this; he goes through dooms, and it appears he gets some scant help from Crom, who regards him as destined for something. The behavior is so bad there's a feeling it's unreal which even mitigates the horror.  But Howard's poetry shows through all of this.


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## logan_run (Oct 30, 2017)

i want to reread his books ,marvel with Roy Thomas did  some good adaptions of Conan,


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## BAYLOR (Jan 3, 2018)

logan_run said:


> I WISH HE WROTE 10 MORE



If Robert E. Howard  could have seen the impact that he has had on the fantasy genre, the writers that he influenced and  the level of popularity that his works have with todays fans , he would have been amazed .  Howard touched alot of lives .


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## psikeyhackr (Jan 3, 2018)

What I find amusing is that Conan, as a character, seems more intelligent than Gandalf or Dumbledore.   They just come across as shallow characters stuffed into the old wise wizard roles.


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## Extollager (Jan 3, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> What I find amusing is that Conan, as a character, seems more intelligent than Gandalf or Dumbledore.   They just come across as shallow characters stuffed into the old wise wizard roles.



John Thiel wrote, "His characters don't fit the description of good men at all. His heroes cut men down in their tracks and sell out the bandits they congregate with. The only morality in them is "stay alive".

Can't speak for Dumbledore since I haven't read those books, but Gandalf might appear to be lacking intelligence, Psi, because he takes the moral dimension into account.  Conan would just use the Ring for his advantage, right?    If he became a Dark Lord, he'd have no problem with that, would he?


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## psikeyhackr (Jan 3, 2018)

Extollager said:


> Conan would just use the Ring for his advantage, right?    If he became a Dark Lord, he'd have no problem with that, would he?



Conan's morality is kind of rubbery but does seem to evolve somewhat with age, from devil may care self-interest to a somewhat caring cynicism.

I have only read two HP books but I finished LOTR and asked myself once I finished, "I can't believe I read the whole thing!  Why?"  LOL


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## Vince W (Jan 4, 2018)

Extollager said:


> Conan would just use the Ring for his advantage, right?    If he became a Dark Lord, he'd have no problem with that, would he?



Conan has a deep fear and mistrust of magic and magical things. If Conan got the Ring he would sell it for wine and meat or give it to some doxy for a night's pleasure.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 4, 2018)

Extollager said:


> John Thiel wrote, "His characters don't fit the description of good men at all. His heroes cut men down in their tracks and sell out the bandits they congregate with. The only morality in them is "stay alive".
> 
> Can't speak for Dumbledore since I haven't read those books, but Gandalf might appear to be lacking intelligence, Psi, because he takes the moral dimension into account.  Conan would just use the Ring for his advantage, right?    If he became a Dark Lord, he'd have no problem with that, would he?



Not so. Conan  is unwilling to be anyones or anythings slave . If he knew the seductive qualities of the Ring, He'd destroy it.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 1, 2018)

psikeyhackr said:


> What I find amusing is that Conan, as a character, seems more intelligent than Gandalf or Dumbledore.   They just come across as shallow characters stuffed into the old wise wizard roles.



My impression is that Conan had more street smarts then either of them.


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## Vince W (Oct 1, 2018)

Because of his dread of magic Conan would have killed both of them out of hand and left their bodies where they lay.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 2, 2018)

Vince W said:


> Because of his dread of magic Conan would have killed both of them out of hand and left their bodies where they lay.



I think Conan would like them beaus they are good Wizards.


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## RVM45 (Jul 3, 2019)

Friends,
I loved Howard's stories as a young man in Grade School and High School.
I used to wish that I could be more like Conan—years later I realized that dreaming, introspecting and reading fiction already meant that one wasn't very Conanesque.
Today I find the stories a bit boring, but I look back on them with nostalgia.
One of my favorite time machine phantasies is to take a 19'' color TV, a VHS player and the movie "_The Outlaw Josie Wales_" and have Howard rewrite it as a novel _WITHOUT_ using Lone Watie as comic relief.
{The movie is the only one I ever saw that got the multiple pistol aspect of Kansas Border War conflict right...
And some Howard's Westerns were quite good…}


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