# shape of the universe?



## iratebeaver (May 27, 2006)

I often wonder if you could look at the universe from out side it what shpe would it be? or does it extend infinatly? does it just stop? is it continually growing? what is outside of it? what are you views? the only thing i believe is that it does stop eventually.


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## littlemissattitude (May 27, 2006)

I have a sneaking suspicion that Chris will have something to say about this issue.

I, on the other hand, don't have enough knowledge about it to even begin to discuss the issue.  Sorry, kiddo.


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## j d worthington (May 27, 2006)

I'd held off because I was expecting Chris to answer this one, myself. But, as I said earlier, fools rush in.....

There have been a number of "maps" of the universe, based on the various findings. The most recent one I've seen (and this was about 10 years ago, I think) was something in the nature of a generally oblate spheroid containing an expanding spiral (top to bottom, like a staircase) in general shape, though there were odd bits and pieces scattered outside of the central spiral pretty thickly. I'm sure that's been revised, especially in light of the findings of both dark matter and dark energy (still that old dichotomy, last I heard, cropping up again). As I said, this is years out of date, but it was fascinating to look at.

Realistically, of course, there is no outside. One could say that quite literally there is nothing outside, because there is no space, nowhere for anything, even vacuum, to be. It's probably more accurate, however, to stick to the first statement: ain't no sech critter. The universe creates space as it expands. If you haven't done so, and would like one view of what this is all about, try reading Heinlein's "Waldo", where he's thinking about the "Other Space" -- then, once your head has been glued back together, try tackling some of the more recent books on the subject by Hawking, etc. As I've said before, with this sort of thing to ponder, who the heck needs drugs?


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## mosaix (May 27, 2006)

Interesting question. But by definition the Universe contains everything so an 'outside' observer is not possible.

There isn't even any 'space' outside the Universe. Space it what lies between two objects. So again, by definition there is no space beyond the edge of the Universe. That's if the Univetrse has an edge at all.


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## argenianpoet (May 30, 2006)

The universe is probably circular in shape as everything else in the cosmos is circular:  planets, moons, suns, orbits, galaxies, etc. but that is just an educated guess.  It is more probable that the so-called Universe is a smaller part of something else, and as to space outside the Universe, that's well beyond our scope of knowledge.  I mean, we haven't even sent a manned exploration to Mars yet, and that is our neighboring planet!  How much could we possibly claim to _know _about the substance or shape of existence?  It is only in our imaginations that we can answer such questions, and I think it was Einstein that said:  "Imagination is more important than knowledge."  So the real question is this:  Do we have the Imagination to answer this question?


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## Milk (Aug 6, 2006)

My guess is that its shaped like the sphere's version of a tesserac.

Unfold a box into a flattened shape of 6 squares, then cube all the sides, forming a tesserac (forgive me I forgot how to spell it.) It looks kind of like a cross, but with a cube in front and one in back. Like the one in a Salvador Dali painting. Well thats for straight edges--okay now take this idea-- but add lots of roundness.
This is sort of how.
Imagine peeling an orange to mimic how a tesserac is constructed. Once its a flattened peel dont cube it, spheroid it. Im sure it makes a really odd shape... anyhow thats what my guess the shape of the Universe is: a bounded 3d sphere/tesserac/peeled orange/spheriod looking thing... LOL.   Probably like the stringy guts of a golfball.



Or it could be the same peeled-orange-to become-a-sphere-again except its hyperbolized--stretched inside out.

And this is just a plain old guess. Nothing to back it up except a strange notion.


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## electricdragon (Aug 23, 2006)

my guess is that the universe is shaped like an egg and everything else is in it


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## Coops (Aug 23, 2006)

It would seem there are only two possibilities.

1.  After the Big Bang, the universe is expanding in a spherical manner in three dimensions.  Who knows how many other dimensions there might be but whatever the shape with the smallest surface to volume ratio is in that number of dimensions, then pick that shape.

2. The universe is everything and therefore shape has no meaning.  You might as well ask "What is the shape of time?"

I think we just do not have enough information to answer the question properly.


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## Paige Turner (Aug 23, 2006)

I thought the universe was like a giant donut constantly turning itself inside-out. At least, that's the assumption I've based all my plans on. If that's incorrect, can someone let me know, because I'll have to repack everything.


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## Harpo (Sep 25, 2006)

I saw an article recently which said the universe is the same shape as a brain cell


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## carrie221 (Sep 25, 2006)

I don't think the universe has an actual shape... while time may have a shape I do not think the universe does... it just is


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## steve12553 (Sep 25, 2006)

I've seen two separate definitions for universe. One gave it essentially the same definition as a galaxy in which case this is a dull discussion. ( We can see some galaxies with telescopes). The other is that it is all matter and space within the three or four dimensions that we exist. If that's the case we will probably not be able to define its shape in any language we now understand. It cannot be finite because that would require an end. And what is on the other side of the end? Therefore at some point it has to fold in on itself and the finish becomes the start. I can't understand that either but that's probably becauses I was raised in a three dimensional existence and only after a certain amount of maturation did I come to be in a four dimensional existence. That's help's a little but I suspect we need five or more dimensions to really understand the shape of the universe. 


PS. Stand by Paige, Their working on it.


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## HoopyFrood (Oct 20, 2006)

I tore an article out of the newpaper a while ago because a new study had declared:
The universe is shaped like a Pringle! Well at least it is if you were to take a little chunk out of it. This is named the Picard theory, the idea that the universe is shaped like a medieval horn and that it is therefore finite. If you were to fly to the end of the wide funnel end, you'd apparently find yourself flying back into the narrow end. 
Well, maybe I should add the link, I'm sure it could explain it better than I can!

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4879


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## Joel007 (Oct 20, 2006)

its shaped like a pair of pantaloons. Obviously.


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## Jilliboo (Oct 22, 2006)

I asked this question to myself when I was seven. It only occured to me now that if you went to the "outside" of the universe it wouldn't be observable. (This is only based on my belief that nothingness lies beyond the universe. The universe is an iffy subject.) Sight only exists where mass and light do, as science concludes so far.


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## galligator (Nov 30, 2006)

yes but teoretically if u could look at the universe from the outside i think that article hoopyfrood linked is a pretty solid idea


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## SpaceShip (Nov 30, 2006)

Joel007 said:


> its shaped like a pair of pantaloons. Obviously.


Just as long as it ain't shaped like your hat Joel!

Whatever shape it is - it's huge!  Very very huge!

Oh and hi galligator - welcome to the Chronics.


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## Urien (Nov 30, 2006)

The universe is the shape of a tickle me Elmo doll.

It's the shape of a childs laughter...awww, well it's nearly the festive season.

I know where the true answer is, it's in the dreams I had when I was a child. There was a door on the landing that wasn't there when I was awake, somehow impossibly it fitted into the same space... whatever shape it was is probably in there.


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## galligator (Dec 1, 2006)

thanks alot


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## El_L1 (Dec 6, 2006)

a brilliant electric flower with a beauty that cannot be explained with mortal words


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## Joel007 (Dec 6, 2006)

Its obviously shaped like a celestial badger of great beauty. We're part of the lower colon.


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## El_L1 (Dec 6, 2006)

part of the lower colon huh? I hope were on the way on then!


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## HoopyFrood (Dec 6, 2006)

Well, seems as we've fallen into the realms of surreal (that happens a lot around here...)

My idea...the universe is shaped like...a pomegranate.


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## El_L1 (Dec 7, 2006)

a pomegranate is more pleasing to me than a badger's colon for sure.


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## j d worthington (Dec 7, 2006)

El_L1 said:


> a pomegranate is more pleasing to me than a badger's colon for sure.


 
Seconded.


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## Paige Turner (Dec 7, 2006)

Once again, colonophobia rears its ugly head.


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## Joel007 (Dec 7, 2006)

Well, if you're going to look at the shape of the universe, you've got to look at your position inside that shape. If the universe was shaped like a M&M factory, we'd probably be inside the shelf light in the pie cupboard.


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## j d worthington (Dec 7, 2006)

Joel007 said:


> Well, if you're going to look at the shape of the universe, you've got to look at your position inside that shape. If the universe was shaped like a M&M factory, we'd probably be inside the shelf light in the pie cupboard.


 
That, or the farthest corner of a rat hole in the sub-sub-basement....


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## HoopyFrood (Dec 7, 2006)

If the Universe was set out as a street of shops, my position would be in Harrods, on the floor that sells the most expensive stuff. Definitely.


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## Spartan27 (Dec 7, 2006)

I always thought the universe was shaped like my shield.


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## Rosemary (Dec 7, 2006)

Well whatever the shape of the universe is, it's immense!  Makes everything else look so insignificant


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## Joel007 (Dec 8, 2006)

er... being the universe and all that, it contains everything. So everything else _is_ insignificant.


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## Admiral Ryouhei (Dec 15, 2006)

Paige Turner said:


> I thought the universe was like a giant donut constantly turning itself inside-out. At least, that's the assumption I've based all my plans on. If that's incorrect, can someone let me know, because I'll have to repack everything.


 
read a book on string theory 'The Elegant Universe' and 'Einstien's Unfinished Symphony' which I'm reading now.  One of the two states that a universe shaped like a torus would not have given us the results we see now.

My uneducated guess is that it is sheroid if flattened out, but it probably looks like a brain, all those tiny folds everywhere, which would make for good jump points if we ever get a break-through in that area

but unless the multi-verse theory is correct there shouldn,t be an outside dimension to view it from, or we might not be able to exist in it


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## iratebeaver (Jan 9, 2007)

andrew.v.spencer said:


> The universe is the shape of a tickle me Elmo doll.


 you know what i'm going with that a tickle me elmo doll. and i'm going to invent a time machine based on that theory


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## Green (Jan 9, 2007)

I patented it years ago based off your new design, and you will only end up owning me millions. I own the red bubblewrap.

2007 will be the year of the penguin.


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## Joel007 (Jan 10, 2007)

In the century of the fruitbat, in the decade of the undermined shrew, in the year of the startled goat: It was discovered that the universe was shaped like a convex lens.


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## Allegra (Jan 10, 2007)

If that's the case the giant turtle may get some wrong ideas and think himself is the universe.


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## Admiral Ryouhei (Feb 3, 2007)

yeah, general concencus (spl?) 'Who gives a damn'


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## j d worthington (Feb 3, 2007)

General consensus among those who have studied the subject, run experiments to test hypotheses, etc. (_not _the general lay populace)? I'd say that's _exactly_ what's the most important and the most likely to have the correct answers. Throwing out other ideas is certainly helpful, and may provide new things to look at (and therefore maverick ideas -- as long as they are soundly based, not simply wool-gathering -- can have a beneficial function); but the best models are taken from the "general consensus" given above. In fact, it's the only way in which to rigorously test an idea and see whether it has merit! This isn't one of those things an individual can accomplish alone; not in cosmology, you can't.


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## heusdens (Feb 25, 2007)

The answer is much more simple: there is no universe in the first place.
Universe is a mental construction (sum of all existence, all space and all time and all matter, etc) but it does not refer to anything at all.

It can't be. Existence means objective relations, which by definition can not exist for the universe (or universe would not be universe, but just some local part of a much vaster reality).


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