# PC Clock Runs Fast



## Foxbat (May 27, 2020)

I have an old Win XP machine not connected to the internet (still my favourite version of Windows) with a weird little problem.  The clock runs fast. If I set it to the correct time, after a couple of months, it’s running about five minutes fast. It’s not a big problem but it’s aroused my curiosity.

I’ve done some googling and there are some possible explanations. One is that it seems to be related to an overclocked processor (my PC is, indeed, overclocked). Another is that it is related to the ‘timer interrupt’. This apparently operates about 20 times per second and is used to regulate the clock time in windows. The problem is that most folk reporting clock problems appear to be worse than mine. One user reported his PC gaining around ten minutes in an hour. Mine is nowhere near as bad as that and it causes me no real problems but it’s bugging me.  

I’ve only noticed this quirk in the last couple of years and the only recent changes to the computer have been replacement power supply and graphics card (I was aware of the problem before these were changed so have ruled them out). There have been no changes to the BIOS (that I am aware of). I’m also tempted to discount the overclocked processor because that has been like that since it was first built (2006 if I recall correctly).

Any ideas on this conundrum greatly appreciated.


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## -K2- (May 27, 2020)

Open your windows time/date function and you'll note that you have an option as to what/where to sync the time with over the internet. Hardware variables (I'm suspecting) makes it impossible to have 'a' generic program to keep time (of which I've heard it is critical to its operation...why I don't know). So, without the PC hooked up to the net, your overclocking, hardware variables, software degradation and so on lags or accelerates time by microseconds which all add up--over time *snort*--until it's time to reset the time.

Time for me to shut up... 'bout time 

K2


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## Foxbat (May 27, 2020)

So it seems maybe all I can do is reset manually.....
I hate mysteries with no sense of achievement


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## Astro Pen (May 27, 2020)

But the upside is that the longer you leave it the better the choice of seat you get at meetings


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## .matthew. (May 27, 2020)

Sounds related to that little battery that sits on your motherboard to me. Then again that's just one of a few possibilities but I've heard of near dead CMOS battery causing a time drift.


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## .matthew. (May 27, 2020)

I should probably have been clearer - you should try replacing the battery if the computer is as old as I'm assuming. Not sure what type it'll be but it will be an easy swap job, and it can't hurt


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## Foxbat (May 28, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> I should probably have been clearer - you should try replacing the battery if the computer is as old as I'm assuming. Not sure what type it'll be but it will be an easy swap job, and it can't hurt


It might be worth a try. I‘m surprised it’s lasted as long as it has


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## Dave (May 28, 2020)

I was also going to say to change the battery. They are cheap batteries and they do last a long time (the coin shaped batteries that you also get in wrist watches) but eventually they give up. Opening the computer, finding it, getting it out and replacing everything back the same way might be the hard part. There are several different types but Pound shops will sell an assortment for.... a £1.

If you've never had the PC open before, vacuum out all the dust and clean the fan at the same time. It stops the PC overheating and you may see a vastly improved performance.

If it isn't the battery then it is probably time to buy a new computer, but what @-K2- said should work to keep it corrected it while you have a live internet connection. If the computer time doesn't match the real time then you start to get all kinds of additional problems with programs and calendars not working.


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## Foxbat (May 28, 2020)

Apart from the clock problem, the PC in question is probably my most reliable (I have 2 PCs, 2 laptops and an iPad). That’s what makes this such a mystery. It rarely if ever crashes (and if it does, it’s  normally because I’ve done something stupid). I’ve seen absolutely no sign of growing instability. I built this machine myself  and about the only original part left now is the motherboard so I suppose if there is an emerging fault, that is likely where it lies. The quest continues


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## Dave (May 28, 2020)

If you built it yourself then sorry, I'm probably teaching your granny to suck eggs. The only problem I see with it being caused by the battery is that when I had a battery problem it never ran fast, but just kept resetting to 01/01/2000.


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## Foxbat (May 28, 2020)

Followed the suggestion here to reset the clock in the BIOS rather than via Windows. I’ll know in a couple of months if it has worked








						8 Ways To Fix System Clock Runs Fast Issue
					

8 Ways To Fix System Clock Runs Fast Issue: If you are facing this issue where System Clock always run faster than the usual time then chances are you must have overclocked your PC or this could be simple CMOS settings. This could also happen when Windows Time service is corrupt which is pretty...




					troubleshooter.xyz


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## Foxbat (Jun 15, 2020)

Clock seems okay so far but starting to see the odd unusual crash...unusual in the sense that it’s not just a crash to desktop but something that requires me to reboot. These are quite rare but it’s got me wondering so I’ve decided that it’s time for a new machine. With prices the way they are, it’s just not worth the hassle of buying the parts and building yourself so I’m going to outsource the build.

Just had a telephone call to say the pc is now in the process of being built and I should take delivery within six to ten days.
Decent specs for me. I’m not a huge gamer but when I do play, I prefer older, less processor intensive games like turn-based strategy or isometric RPGs. This should meet my needs.


System: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G Processor (4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.7GHz Base, 4.2GHz Turbo, 4MB Cache) | AMD A320 Chipset Motherboard | 8GB 2400MHz DDR4 RAM | 240GB SATA-III SSD | 1TB 7200RPM SATA-III HDD
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1650 4GB Graphics Card | HDMI v2.0 | 400W 80+ Certified Gaming Power Supply
Connectivity: 6x USB 3.1 | 2x USB 2.0 | 1x PS/2 KB or Mouse Port | 1x RJ45 Network Ethernet 10/100/1000 | 300Mbps 802.11n Wifi | 5.1-Channel High Definition Audio
Case & Cooling: Ttake Versa J24 Mid Tower Case | AMD Standard Cooler | 4x RGB LED Fans, RFID Remote
Warranty & Software: Windows 10 Home 64-bit


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## Astro Pen (Jun 15, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> Clock seems okay so far but starting to see the odd unusual crash...unusual in the sense that it’s not just a crash to desktop but something that requires me to reboot. These are quite rare but it’s got me wondering so I’ve decided that it’s time for a new machine. With prices the way they are, it’s just not worth the hassle of buying the parts and building yourself so I’m going to outsource the build.
> 
> Just had a telephone call to say the pc is now in the process of being built and I should take delivery within six to ten days.
> Decent specs for me. I’m not a huge gamer but when I do play, I prefer older, less processor intensive games like turn-based strategy or isometric RPGs. This should meet my needs.
> ...


Once the new one is running and you can safely play around with the old one - 
Remove and re install the memory, there may be a contact issue.
Also how many years are on the hard drive? I have found that with it on 16 hours a day they start to glitch at about four years old.
Worth checking for any bulging capacitor ends too, your board _should_ be new enough to escape that but a few old stock may have slipped back into the supply stream.


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## Foxbat (Jun 15, 2020)

I put it together in 2006 and it’s the original hard drive, so that makes it almost 14 years old. It’s probably only averaging about two hours per day running time but that’s still a lot. I will try your memory suggestion and a few other things and see what happens. 

I can’t complain and I‘ve definitely had my money’s worth from this one but time catches up with us all, I suppose...


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## Astro Pen (Jun 15, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> I put it together in 2006 and it’s the original hard drive, so that makes it almost 14 years old. It’s probably only averaging about two hours per day running time but that’s still a lot. I will try your memory suggestion and a few other things and see what happens.
> 
> I can’t complain and I‘ve definitely had my money’s worth from this one but time catches up with us all, I suppose...


2006 definitely check the capacitors. Mine is the same age and on its second motherboard due to caps (and its 4th hard drive.) But like you, I love XP enough to persevere  Plus the drivers for my ancient synth cards and music gear with Cubase SX are all XP.


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## .matthew. (Jun 15, 2020)

Looking like decent enough specs for what you want. I take it you're moving up to Windows 10 now?


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## Foxbat (Jun 15, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> Looking like decent enough specs for what you want. I take it you're moving up to Windows 10 now?


Yeah. I think it’s probably time to come out of the stone age


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## .matthew. (Jun 15, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> Yeah. I think it’s probably time to come out of the stone age


Ha, nothing wrong with banging two rocks together if it still gets a fire going 

But yea, I don't think the hardware would support xp anymore anyway, I know when I built my last one I tried to throw Windows 7 on there and it threw an error attack over it.


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## ginny (Jun 16, 2020)

I would be surprise if your time didn't drift.
That seems to be one of the main reasons that the os has a means of syncing your clock to an 'atomic' clock somewhere.
At work we have to have the computer clocks as closely synced as possible, which means any computer not networked has to be checked and adjusted manually several times in a day.


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## Foxbat (Jun 30, 2020)

New PC just arrived and busy setting it up. What an utterly infuriating experience setting up Windows 10 is. Still, I've got Firefox up and running now as my browser so everything is starting to feel a little familar again


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## Venusian Broon (Jun 30, 2020)

Dave said:


> If you've never had the PC open before, vacuum out all the dust and clean the fan at the same time. It stops the PC overheating and you may see a vastly improved performance.



Removing the dust is always a good idea, but never vacuum inside the PC as you run the risk of building up a large static electricity charge that can damage the delicate parts of the PC inside. Yes, in years past I have used the house vacuum on occasion, but I have been lucky that I did not damage anything. 

There are specfic vacuum cleaners that are designed for PC cleaning...although all I can find are _blowers _for PC on Amazon, so I don't know how expensive they will be. 

See here for a safer methods (either use blowers/compressed air to push the dust out or use the vacuum a distance away from your PC as you use brushes - that also don't build up static, so check the materials):









						Ask How-To Geek: Why You Should Never Vacuum Your PC, Converting Books for the Kindle, and Controlling Multiple Computers with One Keyboard
					

You’ve got questions and we’ve got answers. Today we take a look at why you should never vacuum your dusty PC, how covert books to read on the Kindle, and how to control multiple computers with one keyboard and mouse.




					www.howtogeek.com
				



.









						How to vacuum the inside of your desktop pc [without blowing it up]
					

I wish you could have heard my desktop computer just an hour ago. It was making a nasty wheezing noise that did not bode well at all. Now…




					medium.com


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## Foxbat (Jun 30, 2020)

I have a small compressor and airbrush. I've always been tempted to use it but never have just in case I forget to empty and clean of paint first


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## Dave (Jun 30, 2020)

Venusian Broon said:


> Removing the dust is always a good idea, but never vacuum inside the PC as you run the risk of building up a large static electricity charge that can damage the delicate parts of the PC inside.


Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. 

I've done it before, but it was to the removed case, not to the boards themselves. It is the fan and the fan vent that really gets gunged up anyhow. Would an "Invertible Air Duster" in a can cause the same problem, or is that okay to use?


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## -K2- (Jun 30, 2020)

I can confirm that you NEVER use a bucket of soapy water and a sponge--while it's still plugged in--to wash it out. *nods* Unplug it first 
(naturally, also unplug it first if it catches fire before you urinate on it to put it out...1,200w power supplies are surprisingly exhilarating )

K2


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## .matthew. (Jun 30, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> New PC just arrived and busy setting it up. What an utterly infuriating experience setting up Windows 10 is. Still, I've got Firefox up and running now as my browser so everything is starting to feel a little familar again



Have you made sure you've set up your storage to local disk if that's what you're after? (I know someone who had it default to the cloud during setup and caused no end of issues down the road).


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## Venusian Broon (Jun 30, 2020)

Dave said:


> Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
> 
> I've done it before, but it was to the removed case, not to the boards themselves. It is the fan and the fan vent that really gets gunged up anyhow. Would an "Invertible Air Duster" in a can cause the same problem, or is that okay to use?



I _think _any system that 'blows insteads of sucks' would be preferrable. Just put your PC in an area that you can clean afterwards with a hoover easily, to finally get rid of the dust that you've blown out. 

I've always contemplated getting some sort of liquid cooled system instead of using air cooling, as you say, it's the fan, vents and CPU cooling baffles that can get clogged up quickly and a nice liquid cooler would get rid of those chores - and be quieter. 

(FYI I believe K2 made the suggestion a while back that you can get meshes to put over the CPU cooling to stop gunk getting deep in there, so there's that as a solution too.)


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## Foxbat (Jun 30, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> Have you made sure you've set up your storage to local disk if that's what you're after? (I know someone who had it default to the cloud during setup and caused no end of issues down the road).


Actually, this is what infuriated me about Windows 10. I couldn't progress the setup without going through the palaver of setting up an account for the cloud (which I have no intention of using and deactivated as soon as set up was complete). All my storage will be local. The new PC has a 250gig SSD and a  1 terra HDD so I've got plenty of space. I also backup important stuff on multiple external hard drives so no need for cloud (and I don't want my different devices synchronised either). 

Now that it's up and running, Windows 10 seems fine and the updates are a bit quicker configuring than previous incarnations of Windows.


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## Foxbat (Jun 30, 2020)

Venusian Broon said:


> (FYI I believe K2 made the suggestion a while back that you can get meshes to put over the CPU cooling to stop gunk getting deep in there, so there's that as a solution too.)


My new machine came with a fine mesh that sits on the top grille. I presume it's to keep large particles out. This is the beast I bought.


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## Foxbat (Jun 30, 2020)

Ha! Just figured out why I had so many problems setting up this PC. Couldn't get it to accept my email address for creating a cloud account. It said there was already an account with that address. 

Now that I've sorted it out with a different address, I realise what happened. Back in february, I bought a laptop with Windows 10. The plan was to then buy an audio interface and hook it to the laptop to replace my aging recording desk. Because of the lockdown, I never got round to getting the interface ( I wanted to buy it locally and talk to the experts in the guitar shop I frequent). Obviously, they were closed and it all went on hold. The laptop is rarely used right now, but  I remember setting up a cloud account with that address (which I never use) and that's what caused the problem.


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## .matthew. (Jun 30, 2020)

Hah. Yea, I set mine up offline to avoid all that jazz, then spent the next few hours stripping out bloatware and setting my start menu up to be as minimalist as possible. I also shut down Cortana as best I could and removed that search from the taskbar 


Yes, that is 3 different browsers (Firefox for me, Opera for work, ...Edge... because it was already there and I wanted one set of tabs for writing-related stuff).


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## Foxbat (Jul 1, 2020)

I've shifted away from Microsoft Office because of the need to go cloud and installed Libre Office and set it to be the default application for Word documents (doc, docx). So far, it seems to be working just fine. I've got a short story to finish so it'll be interesting to see how it goes switching applications midway.


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## Foxbat (Jul 1, 2020)

Now discovered a new problem. 
My copy of Photoshop Elements 11 won't run in Windows 10. It actually seems to be a problem with Elements Organiser (which it seems impossible to omit when installing Elements). It just rolls back the installation every time. Compatability doesn't work. I have no intention of 'renting' the latest version of Photoshop and paying a monthly fee (I don't mind buying, object strongly to renting) so I've downloaded the latest version of Gimp as a replacement photo-editing package. Had a quick play about with it and things are a little different in layout but all the functions I need appear to be there. Looks a fairly decent bit of software. Best of all, it's free! 

Looks like my Photoshop days are over


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 1, 2020)

Yeah, that seems to be the trend with software these days. Not buying, but renting, which goes together with a mandatory account and working in a cloud. Gah!
I understand the logic of this, up to a point, but resent this development at the same time. One of the reasons why I moved over to Linux.
I had to make an exception with regard to gaming and purchased a PC with Windows 10 (_Groan_), _solely_ for gaming purposes. No Windows account, all Private-settings set to maximum and running on a sub-network.


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## .matthew. (Jul 1, 2020)

Ha yea, I use GIMP too. I'm not by any means good with it, mostly just using it to resize images, convert file formats, and play around with layers for title thumbs, but it does the job nicely enough.

The thing with photoshop is it's probably only a requirement if you also work with all the other Adobe software and need it to tie in together seamlessly (lol).

---

Don't get me started on renting software. I'm also infuriated that you don't own any digital media you actually pay for upfront either.

From what I understand, Linux gaming compatibility is coming along quite well recently. Still not perfect but getting there. I only use my Linux install for writing and media consumption though, so I can't speak from personal experience


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## Foxbat (Jul 2, 2020)

Been spending some time playing about with Gimp and Libre Office. No real problems at all, just a lack of familiarity.  I’m pretty pleased with both products


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## Overread (Jul 2, 2020)

In my experience Open Office works fine on its own - you get issues when you start trying to use it and moving back and forth between OO and Word. I spent ages trying to get images that appeared in Open Office to appear in Word documents, even when it was saved in a word compatible format. They will talk to each other but its not always straight forward.

Note I believe you can still buy newer versions of Photoshop Elements, its the core program that you can't get on its own. Personally I'm content with the renting because it gives me photoshop and lightroom, both of which I use a lot for my photography and of the two I'd never have bought photoshop on its own (at £300 some and more for a single version if I ever had that much I generally put it onto new camera gear rather than software).
Of course my issue is I can't update Photoshop nor Lightroom now because I'm not on Win10 and for some reason 8.1 is the black sheep for software updates. Nividia are the same in supporting 7 and 10 but not 8 (so I have to use graphics drivers for 7). It would not surprise me if in the future it comes out that MS gave backhanders to some major software developers to make them overlook 8 and to push everyone they can into using Windows 10



On PC cleaning I've had my eye on one of these for a while https://www.itdusters.com/product/compucleaner/
When it comes to static that's a huge minefield of science and opinions. There are some who hold that any static is bad, whilst others are less sure. Things like static wrists are used like a religion by some and others never use them. Another oddity is perspex sides on cases, a highly static surface right next to your computer (easy to bump your hand onto it to pick up a charge when working inside the PC).
I think its a case that the equipment is both delicate and more resilient at the same time. I'd wager people do more damage with the hoover by bumping it into components or brushing over areas with rough force than simply holding the nozzle near to the components. That said without some brush/blower action to kick dust up a hoover can only achieve so much dust removal.

Oh and whilst we are at it, don't forget to clear the cookies properly


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## Foxbat (Jul 2, 2020)

I have Photoshop Elements and Premier Elements 11. These were the last versions you could buy before renting. It's not these particular programs that is the problem, it is Elements Organiser that fails and automatically rolls back the installation You can't install either program on their own. You don't have an option to do so. If you try and install directly from either Photoshop or Premier, computer says no and directs you to install from the route directory application, which then tries to install Organiser. In other words, you _have_ to install Organiser. That means unless I can find a fix, they're little more than coasters (albeit coasters that cost me £70).

I rarely use images in Word documents but when I do, it's almost always because I require a hard copy. I've never been happy working with images in Word because sometimes the file size gets so big that it slows the printer to a snail pace. The easiest and most efficient solution I've found is, once the Word document with images is ready, convert it to a PDF via Acrobat. The file size reduces enormously and printing is a dawdle. 

I'm not expecting to work with images these days (most of it before was training material I used to create for work and now that I'm no longer working there's no real requirement).


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## Dave (Jul 2, 2020)

I did have someone email me several times because they said a website was broken. The website had said it was a cookie problem but they wanted me to somehow fix it for them. I'm good, but I can't do magic yet. Obviously, they had never cleared their cookies ever before. I expect they don't ever put oil or water into their cars either. They even went all Dr. McCoy saying "I'm a __________ not a computer expert!"

Why do they pronounce it "case" in that video rather than "caché"? It's from the French, like an attaché case. It isn't difficult.


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## HareBrain (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave said:


> Why do they pronounce it "case" in that video rather than "caché"? It's from the French, like an attaché case. It isn't difficult.



No, there's no acute accent. It's pronounced "cash". (Did they really pronounce it "case"? That's just weird.)


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## -K2- (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave said:


> Why do they pronounce it "case" in that video rather than "caché"? It's from the French, like an attaché case. It isn't difficult.



Because, British folks don't speak English. Have you ever heard them? They don't talk gud like a Merican.

K2


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## Dave (Jul 2, 2020)

HareBrain said:


> No, there's no acute accent. It's pronounced "cash". (Did they really pronounce it "case"? That's just weird.)


Really? We used to have cache boxes at work to keep notes safe. They were cache boxes with a acute accent but they had cash inside them. Are you sure that isn't American English? I just checked online, but they are all american dictionary websites which say it is cash unless it is written cachet. I've never heard of a cachet before.

Edit: I found this and I've obviously been saying it all wrong according to an American professor of English (if that isn't an oxymoron itself.)





__





						cache / cachet | Common Errors in English Usage and More | Washington State University
					






					brians.wsu.edu
				






> “Cache” comes from the French verb _cacher_, meaning “to hide,” and in English is pronounced exactly like the word “cash.” But reporters speaking of a cache (hidden hoard) of weapons or drugs often mispronounce it to sound like _cachet_—“ca-SHAY” —a word with a very different meaning: originally a seal affixed to a document, now a quality attributed to anything with authority or prestige. Rolex watches have _cachet_.


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## HareBrain (Jul 2, 2020)

Dave said:


> Edit: I found this and I've obviously been saying it all wrong according to an American professor of English (if that isn't an oxymoron itself.)



Don't worry, that's nothing next to a follow accountancy student I once knew, who insisted on pronouncing Porsche as Por-shay.


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## Ursa major (Jul 2, 2020)

HareBrain said:


> who insisted on pronouncing Porsche as Por-shay


Are you sure that he wasn't putting on a Terry-Thomas accent (with added ooomph) and was actually saying, "Poor show" when seeing a sports car that had too few components made from burnished wood (he being a Morgan buff...)?


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## Dave (Jul 2, 2020)

I've heard people pronounce it "Pore-shay" when they christened their daughter that or gave that name to their dog (and if you named something yourself, then really you can say it anyway you like) but the motor car is definitely a Porsche.


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## -K2- (Jul 2, 2020)

I'm betting the people at Porsche might know how to pronounce Porsche...







K2


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## Foxbat (Jul 3, 2020)

Why oh why does Microsoft software have to be so damned infuriating? Despite setting Firefox as my default browser, the new PC  continued to open Edge at startup. It took me about half an hour to finally get it to stop. Turns out it was because of a recent update, but secretly,  I think MS are doing this deliberately and hoping you'll just give up trying to get rid of Edge and keep on using it instead of your preferred browser (probably for greater advertising revenue so they can all afford new Porschays)

 No ****ing way, Microsoft! The more you try, the more determined I'll become not to use your browser


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## HareBrain (Jul 3, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> Despite setting Firefox as my default browser, the new PC continued to open Edge at startup. It took me about half an hour to finally get it to stop.



Odd. Mine also started up Edge after an update. I clicked "close" as soon as I could (about the second setup screen) and I haven't seen it since.

(ETA: I've only ever put it on sleep since, though, never restarted it. So ignore.)


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 3, 2020)

Let go of all hope that Microsoft will ever think _your_ way.


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## mosaix (Jul 3, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> Why oh why does Microsoft software have to be so damned infuriating? Despite setting Firefox as my default browser, the new PC  continued to open Edge at startup. It took me about half an hour to finally get it to stop. Turns out it was because of a recent update, but secretly,  I think MS are doing this deliberately and hoping you'll just give up trying to get rid of Edge and keep on using it instead of your preferred browser (probably for greater advertising revenue so they can all afford new Porschays)
> 
> No ****ing way, Microsoft! The more you try, the more determined I'll become not to use your browser



The real problem is that, despite you having bought the machine, the operating system and the applications, Microsoft regard them all as fair target to do with them as they want - probably to their advantage. 

I had graphical design package that ran under XP. I installed it on my Windows 10 machine and it ran perfectly. One day I noticed that it had been deleted and Windows 10 now refuses to install it. Very irritating. It was complex and took me months to master it. Any replacement won’t be compatible with my existing files and will take ages to learn.


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## Dave (Jul 3, 2020)

mosaix said:


> I had graphical design package that ran under XP. I installed it on my Windows 10 machine and it ran perfectly. One day I noticed that it had been deleted and Windows 10 now refuses to install it. Very irritating. It was complex and took me months to master it. Any replacement won’t be compatible with my existing files and will take ages to learn.



This is worrying. I knew they could do what they liked with the operating system and that it will only run Microsoft apps, but I have quite a few bits of other software installed (one that contains over 30 years of family history research) that I would not want to see deleted. At least I do back them up on a regular basis, but I think that would be the point of no return for me. I'd definitely leave Windows for Linux or something else if they ever pulled something like that.

All the software I use currently is designed for Windows 10, but I thought one of the heavily advertised benefits of Windows 10 was the ability to run old software using the Compatibility Mode?


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## Foxbat (Jul 3, 2020)

I tried compatibility mode with Photoshop Elements. As much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.


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## Foxbat (Jul 6, 2020)

Windows 10 is officially doing my head in.

I lost the sound to my speakers but, luckily, having HDMI connection to my monitor, I was able to reroute the sound through the inbuilt speakers there. After doing a bit of info searching, I was all ready to try a few things to tackle the issue but thought I'd give the speaker output one last check and -whadayaknow? The sound is back. So now I've reset them as default.

Problem is, I don't know what the problem was so there's every likelyhood of it re-occuring further down the road. At least I've got a fallback in the monitor speakers, I suppose


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## Foxbat (Jul 6, 2020)

And the sound is gone again.....Nightmare. Tried to re-install drivers. Won't let me. Says most up to date drivers already installed. One bit of advice is to uninstall current drivers and let Windows reinstall again on startup. But that doesn't work because the uninstall option is greyed out.

Gone through all the advice and things to try I could find on the internet but nowt. Back to using the monitor speakers via HDMI again. 

Unbelievable! Going by what I've found out, this appears to be a common problem with Windows 10. Why oh why can't Microsoft simply make an operating system that does what it says on the tin? Maybe they should be more honest with the next Windows evolution  and call it Windows Crap.


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 6, 2020)

I had kind of the same problem when I struggled with Windows 10 to have it run by my rules and not Microsoft's. I failed miserably.
Anyway, it turned out that I, by my rigorously settings concerning Privacy, not only had cut off access to the mic but by doing so also to the speakers.


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## Foxbat (Jul 6, 2020)

Well the sound is working again (for now). It's an onboard sound system with a generic microsoft audio driver so I decided to do a re-install. Got a code 10 in the process. That means that it can't complete the install because it can't talk to the device (and yet Windows audio troubleshooter consistently came back saying there were no problems). I thought sod it and rebooted. Presto! Sound back, but for how long?
I think if it goes again, I'll just stick with the HDMI until I can get a new soundcard.


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## Dave (Jul 6, 2020)

Do you use external speakers? I do too (harman/kardon) and they come with custom drivers from the manufacturer (and are updated) independent of the Windows 10 standard Microsoft audio device drivers, which Windows will automatically defer to. 

So, is Windows stopping you from installing the driver downloaded directly from the device manufacturer?

I was going to suggest that you download something like IObit Driver Booster that will find and update to the current drivers for your devices. It also purges old drivers so that Windows can't accidentally reinstall them. However, I've noticed now that it won't run anymore. I don't know what is blocking it, probably antivirus software.

By the way, I don't update everything suggested by Driver Booster as I've had problems before with the WiFi network drivers it installed, and that old adage "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" seems appropriate here. But since you are having a problem anyway...


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## Ursa major (Jul 6, 2020)

If PC Clock runs fast, he (or she) clearly hasn't eaten enough doughnuts....


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## Foxbat (Jul 7, 2020)

Dave said:


> Do you use external speakers? I do too (harman/kardon) and they come with custom drivers from the manufacturer (and are updated) independent of the Windows 10 standard Microsoft audio device drivers, which Windows will automatically defer to.
> 
> So, is Windows stopping you from installing the driver downloaded directly from the device manufacturer?
> 
> ...


Yes, external speakers.  A pair of small Missions through an old Cambridge Audio amp. They are completely independent and don’t need any interface with the PC other than plugging into the signal out socket. Sound is inbuilt to the mother board and it seems that the Windows generic driver is the right one for it. Even looking at system hardware devices via control panel doesn’t identify it any more than High Definition Generic Audio Device so I have no idea who the original chip manufacturer is. 

Apparently, sound issues after a W10 update are quite common. I’ve also discovered that the popular RPG Morrowind (which I’d recently installed) is notorious for causing sound problems or inoperability in W10. Morrowind is now uninstalled. Sound working again after aborted re-install  of drivers but I’ve lost confidence in it so I think I’ll be buying a new, separate soundcard in the near future.

I notice you can now buy external soundcards that connect vis USB. Anybody know if these are any good?


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## -K2- (Jul 7, 2020)

If I recall correctly...  it was some time ago that sound support was shifted to the motherboard or CPU, essentially making sound cards obsolete/unnecessary, and added nothing to enhance _'typical'_ PC performance like years past (years past they helped significantly depending on the software in use).  That said, I could be wrong or things might have changed--again--where a sound card might help overall PC performance, and naturally, they'll always help if you're wanting higher quality audio.

The advantage of an external unit is you'll not have the same amount of interference from other internal PC components, but the question is do you need that? Unless you're needing an amplifier and have high quality speakers or headphones (E.g.: you drop a Ferrari engine into a Yugo but you don't change the rest of the driveline or tires), and are working with audio or wanting it as your primary musical system, it's questionable if you need either form (ext/int...both same-same as far as I know). 

With all that out of the way, you might be on to something if you're simply trying to bypass the W10 audio...but...*I don't know* if it actually does that like OSs of old. In fact, for all 'I know,' it might still route through the W10 audio software and motherboard sound controller first.

Best to do a few searches asking if they're even needed, and when, and whether you can bypass the W10 OS audio aspects.

K2


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## Foxbat (Jul 7, 2020)

-K2- said:


> but the question is do you need that? Unless you're needing an amplifier and have high quality speakers or headphones (E.g.: you drop a Ferrari engine into a Yugo but you don't change the rest of the driveline or tires), and are working with audio or wanting it as your primary musical system, it's questionable if you need either form (ext/int...both same-same as far as I know).


One of the functions I intend for this new PC is to upload my music into Soundcloud. Although all the recording and mixing is done on a separate desk, I like to do a final upload quality check. For this, I need pretty decent audio (hence the use of Mission speakers and amplifier). Music drafting is just like writing, you can look at a line time and again and fail to spot a typo. Same in audio. It could be an unwanted background noise, buzz or hum inadvertently picked up in recording. Maybe we should call it a ’musicographical error’ or musico for short. It doesn’t happen often but I have pulled pieces down minutes after upload for precisely those problems.

But more than anything else, something not working properly just annoys the hell out of me and I can’t rest until I have subjugated the errant piece of equipment to my will.


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## Foxbat (Jul 8, 2020)

So I decided, now that W10 sound still working for now, I thought I'd remove the graphics card (less than 6 months old) from the old XP machine and stick it into my old Vista machine (I've already downloaded the Vista drivers for this card). Took five minutes to do the swap and another 15 to install the drivers. Restarted the machine and presto! Black screen of death. Windows strikes again.

 It boots up, Vista logo appears and then monitor goes to sleep saying no video. It hangs when started in safemode and now I'm busy going through all the various options. Right now, I'm telling it to repair itself and it's telling me that it will take over an hour just to check out the disk. Good job this is a surplus machine nowadys.


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## .matthew. (Jul 8, 2020)

Elckerlyc said:


> I had kind of the same problem when I struggled with Windows 10 to have it run by my rules and not Microsoft's. I failed miserably.
> Anyway, it turned out that I, by my rigorously settings concerning Privacy, not only had cut off access to the mic but by doing so also to the speakers.


Ha, I experienced that when trying to get the mic working. Struggled for ages until I realised what I'd done.



Foxbat said:


> So I decided, now that W10 sound still working for now, I thought I'd remove the graphics card (less than 6 months old) from the old XP machine and stick it into my old Vista machine (I've already downloaded the Vista drivers for this card). Took five minutes to do the swap and another 15 to install the drivers. Restarted the machine and presto! Black screen of death. Windows strikes again.
> 
> It boots up, Vista logo appears and then monitor goes to sleep saying no video. It hangs when started in safemode and now I'm busy going through all the various options. Right now, I'm telling it to repair itself and it's telling me that it will take over an hour just to check out the disk. Good job this is a surplus machine nowadys.



Yup, different architectures are awkward and never work right together. On the plus side, Linux is coming along quite nicely of late, so by Windows 11 BUYONLYFROMUS edition, you should be able to migrate over fairly easily


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## Foxbat (Jul 8, 2020)

Victory! 
Had to do a repair before able to boot up in safe mode, only to be met with the same problem again. But then I remembered that I'd gone back to the original, older video card. So I thought, put the one in that's caused the problem, go to control panel and uninstall its drivers.  I had to do another repair before getting back into safemode and was about to uninstall but thought, sod it, one last try. I rebooted with the new video card and drivers still installed and it came back working fine.

As Toyah Wilcox said a long time ago..it's a mystery

Edit: yes, Linux is looking more attractive by the day.


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## .matthew. (Jul 8, 2020)

May I suggest installing it either on one of your older machines or as a dual boot system somewhere (that's what I've done). That way you can play around with it and see what's what (as you seem to understand how to work on computers it wouldn't be hard for you to manage). You can also have it run from a USB stick either as a full system or in a nice little plug and play demo mode (which is basically the full system).


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 8, 2020)

For a very short time I was running Ubuntu through VMware, but then the install stopped working. I figured it was a problem with the VMware software itself, though.


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## Elckerlyc (Jul 8, 2020)

Yep, that's how I started with Linux too. First had it run from an USB stick, later as a second OS. Dual boot works fine, as long as you install Windows first and Linux as second. It won't work the other way round, because narcissistic Windows will blindly erase any previous OS or data it encounters on your harddisk.
Right now I have a dual trio boot with several versions of Linux, with Windows7 running (when needed) in VM VirtualBox, next to DOSBox (for when I feel nostalgic.)
Which, I admit, has little to do with PC clocks running fast.



Brian G Turner said:


> For a very short time I was running Ubuntu through VMware, but then the install stopped working. I figured it was a problem with the VMware software itself, though.


I have Win7 and WinXP running through VMWare. I regularly make a backup, but it is running nicely for 3 years now.


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## Foxbat (Jul 8, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> May I suggest installing it either on one of your older machines or as a dual boot system somewhere (that's what I've done). That way you can play around with it and see what's what (as you seem to understand how to work on computers it wouldn't be hard for you to manage). You can also have it run from a USB stick either as a full system or in a nice little plug and play demo mode (which is basically the full system).


A good idea. I can put the older video card into my XP machine and then either do a wipe or set up a dual boot system. 

I didn’t realise you could run it from USB...I’ll have to check the BIOS because I think a lot of older machines aren’t capable of booting from USB. But if it is capable, that’s something I’d  like to try


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## .matthew. (Jul 8, 2020)

Foxbat said:


> A good idea. I can put the older video card into my XP machine and then either do a wipe or set up a dual boot system.



I have mine running full time on a cheapo random brand laptop so it should work on pretty much everything. I use Ubuntu myself but been meaning to try Mint (meant to be much closer to a Windows experience). There are also less resource-hungry builds but I doubt you'd need to bother with them.

If you end up doing a full install (which you can do directly from the 'demo' with just a few clicks to set up a partition dual boot) you can also install Wine which will let you run most Windows programs through a sort of shell - PlayOnLinux is a simple frontloader for Wine to make the whole install process for new software painless as well. Since this is a writing forum, I've tried both Quoll and Scrivener through this and both work perfectly - with a little oddity to the file management. Things like GIMP have Linux versions that work right out the box too.


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