# Is this wise?



## Vladd67 (Jul 22, 2008)

Vladd's view of the World: The Lynx could soon be roaming the Highlands under plan to make Britain a 'Noah's Ark' for endangered species
At first glance this seems a good idea, but have they thought it through fully? Yes the Spanish Imperial Eagle would thrive on our rabbits, but who is to say it would not develop a taste for other things?


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## Perpetual Man (Jul 22, 2008)

It's a scary proposition. Just reading through the article and the whole red quirrel/grey squirrel thing makes you wonder just what would happen with more and more species being introduced, surely our own ecology is going to be unbalanced...

Perhaps the Lynx has a particular taste for grey squirrels?

Seriously though a very different turn of events. 

I know that it is a terrible thing when whole species are on the verge os exticntion, even more so when we realise that it our (as a species) effect on the enviroment that is doing it. But in the grand scheme of things species come and go and a smuch as I'd hate to see the cute lynx go...

Where does it end if they start? Lynx in Scotland, Elephants in Wales, Tigers running free across Dartmoor?


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## Nik (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't have a problem with Lynx, they're just bigger versions of existing 'Scottish WildCat'. They'd certainly help control the rapidly expanding deer populations. Hopefully the otters & beavers would have the sense to stay clear...

Elephants in Wales ?? D'uh, they'd have to be *Hairy* Elephants or Mastodons...

Hmm: I'm sure the Mountain Rescue teams would welcome some help. And fancy riding up Snowdon or Mole Famah in a Howdah !! Book your tickets now...

Um, settling Tigers on Dartmoor or in New Forest is a bit extreme, they might kill off the resident Black Leopards. But if they could be persuaded to cull the wild boar...


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## Ursa major (Jul 22, 2008)

The _re_introduction of species can work; however, the idea of making the UK a Noah's Ark sounds dangerous.


I think what concerns me is that the idea of saving species before they go extinct is a good one, and so it's hard to argue against it; that's why, in fact, it's so dangerous; it has a built-in moral imperative. Trouble is, this is likely to override (if only in the minds of its proponents) those people who'll have the temerity to point out any disadvantages.


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## Pyan (Jul 22, 2008)

As Ursa says, reintroduce native animals that were hunted to extinction by all means: but introducincing non-native ones is a recipe for potential disaster...

Rabbits and Cane Toads in Australia, starlings in North America, grey squirrels in the UK - need I go on?


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## Rosemary (Jul 22, 2008)

It's a great thing that people are trying to save animals from extinction and I'm all for it - but not in a country where they are not a native specie. 

We are being overrun with creatures from other countries, like rabbits, foxes, starlings, camels, goats, the cane toad (although they were introduced to get rid of something else!).  There's also the sparrow - and to guard against them getting into Western Australia there is actually a border patrol to make sure they don't make it!

Introduced species cause so many problems - foxes kill many of our native animals besides the rabbits. Escaped parrots originally from other Australian States are using nesting sites which our own native parrots and other birds need.


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## Dave (Jul 22, 2008)

pyan said:


> As Ursa says, reintroduce native animals that were hunted to extinction by all means: but introducing non-native ones is a recipe for potential disaster...


I concur. They have already re-introduced Beavers, and Wild Boar, but I would draw the line at Lynx and Bears. And Sabre-Tooth Tigers and Woolly Mammoth were native species.

BTW There are already thriving populations of Wallabies in Derbyshire, and Ring Necked Parakeets in Beckenham, and in other parts of London (it has a listing in the Book of British Birds now.)

And the Rabbits aren't native - the Normans introduced them here.


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## AE35Unit (Jul 25, 2008)

History shows that mankind has a bad reputation as regards introductions. Not just in the UK but worldwide. Remember the Cane Toad introduced to Oz?


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## Kostmayer (Jul 29, 2008)

When are they gonna return the wolves?!


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## Drachir (Jul 29, 2008)

There is always the New Zealand example.  After introducing rabbits to the ecosytem in the 19th century someone decided to rectify the situation by bring in the rabbit's natural enemies, namely stoats and weasels.  These predators did a good job on the rabbits, but then proceeded to wipe out the native animal population.  Following the this progression someone suggested bringing in the natural enemy of stoats and weasels, which apparently was the lynx.  About that time the penny appears to have dropped and species introduction was given up as a bad idea.


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## Dave (Jul 29, 2008)

Drachir said:


> After introducing rabbits... someone decided to... bring in... stoats and weasels...  someone suggested bringing in... the lynx.



There was an old woman who swallowed a fly, I don't know why she swallowed a fly, Perhaps she'll die. 
There Was An Old Woman


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## Vladd67 (Jul 29, 2008)

Kostmayer said:


> When are they gonna return the wolves?!


Wolf Trust - Why Reintroduce Wolves To Britain?


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## Overread (Jul 29, 2008)

wolves are having a hard time gettin in - the Scots don't want their sheep eaten!
I would support the reintroduction of a large apex predator - its something we simple dont have anymore (besides ourselves). Wildcats and foxes are the biggest and meanest we have and they can't go for a deer - lynx (Funny I never knew that they were extinct in scotland!) would be a step in the right direction.

However I echo the thoughts about releasing non-native species. Yes much of our ecology is already affected by this and I see no reason to continue. We have example after example of why this is a bad idea - of where we have missed a key element that leads to (often) massive further ecological damage. 
Larger and more varied zoos I would support - though we have precious little space when compared to the US and Africa - but not damaging one ecosystem (and possibly adding at least one if not more) other animals to the endangered list on the pretext of saving another


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## Dave (Jul 29, 2008)

Overread said:


> Larger and more varied zoos I would support.


I would too, except for the fact that animals tend to escape - and the longer the fence the more likely that becomes - that has been the argument against gving over whole valleys to Beaver or Wild Boar - they will just not stay where you tell them to. 

The Wallabies in Derbyshire, Pumas, Panthers, Leopards, Snakes and Racoons, they were all once in captivity. 
More than 10,000 exotic animals sighted in UK in six years | Mail Online (Sep 2006)


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## Overread (Jul 29, 2008)

Very true Dave - though it should be pointed out that a good few of those which are released now were not just escapees from zoos and private homes, but released animals at the time of WW2 when things became so dire as people could not afford to feed their pets - and decided to be kinder rather the cruel and released them to fend for themselves.

That said the only reason we have our wildboars back is because a storm took down a fence at a breeders site (for exotic meats) and let them out - and since they are technically native they were left alone


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## chrispenycate (Jul 29, 2008)

Overread said:


> wolves are having a hard time gettin in - the Scots don't want their sheep eaten!
> I would support the reintroduction of a large apex predator - its something we simple dont have anymore (besides ourselves). Wildcats and foxes are the biggest and meanest we have and they can't go for a deer - lynx (Funny I never knew that they were extinct in scotland!) would be a step in the right direction.
> 
> However I echo the thoughts about releasing non-native species. Yes much of our ecology is already affected by this and I see no reason to continue. We have example after example of why this is a bad idea - of where we have missed a key element that leads to (often) massive further ecological damage.


 But lynx, wolves, brown bear and beavers are all species that were once established ( I hate to say "native"; species migrations for animals, and plants for that matter are extremely – er – widespread? – and cause just as much ecological chaos if they walk in on their own as if some human transports them.

Have they got rid of the mink from East Anglia? They were considerably nastier than having wolves.

If they're not being hunted by humans, you need a considerable predator population to cull deer, and there are bound to some who try mutton (or even veal) for variety.

Reintroduce the Welsh dragon. I say


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## Corina (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't think it's a good idea to take an animal to another country where it would be non-native. That goes for plants too. Once they're taken away from animals or insects that eat them they could outcompete the other native plants and animals and just keep repoducing with nothing to stop them lol.


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## Marcus15 (Jul 29, 2008)

Corina said:


> I don't think it's a good idea to take an animal to another country where it would be non-native. That goes for plants too. Once they're taken away from animals or insects that eat them they could outcompete the other native plants and animals and just keep repoducing with nothing to stop them lol.


 

Yeah, we have a major problem with cudzu here in the states and it's non-native. Didn't you Brits have a problem when some animals activists set a bunch of mink loose and they were killing a certain type of bird there?


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## Corina (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah, there's tons of examples of non native species causing trouble. Cudzu is one, tree of heaven, (more like hell lol) European Starling. Also the Chestnut blight was caused by a non native fungus. believe me, if you Brits don't have a problem with that stuff yet you should avoid it


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## Overread (Jul 29, 2008)

A very good point about migrations Chris  -  reminds me of a lecture on reintroductions and it is a tricky point trying to work out which animals you can and which you cannot reintroduce - even though we are on an island its still a problem - I mean there are grounds for reintroducing lions, hippos and others if we go back far enough for our native species records 

Oh and I think the mink are still about - reduced populations, but I belive traps are still set and they are still caught in them


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