# Charge of the Light Brigade



## The Master™ (Oct 7, 2004)

With the 150th Anniversary being celebrated at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, I thought I'd ask a question that has always bothered me...

Could the Charge of the Light Brigade be classed as murder, by the officer who screwed things up???


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## Frost (Oct 7, 2004)

You could say that the British were "Lions Led By Donkeys"...  

 And If I remember correctly, the officer in charge was just following the orders of an old crackpot British general...He had no choice but to follow orders


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## Brian G Turner (Oct 7, 2004)

I doubt any armed forces would class the death of privates under officers by enemy fire, under battle conditions, as murder. 

 Just my 2c though.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Mar 11, 2005)

then there would have to be a war crimes trial for every surviving officer, captain & above, from WW1!! 

no, I can't say it was murder. Merely criminal incompetance & negligence of the highest order.

Oddly, I have read/seen several articles on this event which tend to say that, although a waste of human live, it had a major impact on the course of the war as the Russian soldiers fighting them were so traumatised by the sight of the charge continuing despite all the cannon fire that they were terrified of the British army thereafter.
Something which is a bit forgotten is that the cavalry, unsupported, nearly did take that gun position and certainly caused a bit of havoc when they got there. 
If an infantry unit had been supporting them, who knows what might have happened..

Complete tosh I'm sure but the sort of thing the british army loves to hear! 
It did become our 'Alamo' for the course of the war though, so in that sense, could be argued that it improved morale for the army as a whole

It could be that *I'm* speaking tosh now though..


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## Tsujigiri (Mar 12, 2005)

I'm led to wonder if a similar order were issued today, the reply from the NCO's would be along the lines of 'Nob off...Sir!'


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## ebarr (Jun 14, 2006)

The Charge of the Light Brigade was really a legacy of the Cromwell era.

Cromwell post ECW had effectively taken control of Britain because he had control of the army. After his death a system where rank had to be purchased was introduced basically to keep control of the military in the hands of the ruling class. The system had more or less worked up to the end of the Napoleonic Wars*. But by the time you got to the Crimean War the system had broken down. Positions in desirable regiments being basically up for offer. Worse still men could purchase a rank then leave active service for a year or two before purchasing their next rank and so on. This had the effect of placing men in senior command who had never obtained any really experience. Lords Cardigan and Lucan were classic examples of this. 

The only officers in the British Army that had any real experience were men who had accepted virtual exile to India in return for better prospects. Unfortunately there was active  discrimination against these ‘Indian**’ officers. 

The actual charge itself was caused by miscommunication but it was the system that allowed such a mistake to be made.

Worth mentioning the same battle had seen the Heavy Brigade successfully charge up hill into a much large block of Russian Cavalry and drive it off. The commander of the Heavy Brigade belonged to the same class as Lucan and Cardigan but it would appear unlike them possess a degree of common sense. He’d brought along a couple of Indian Officers to act as advisors. 




*probably because the worst idiots were mowed down the way nature intended 
** They were actually white


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## nj1 (Mar 22, 2009)

Can anyone recommend a good book on this subject?


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## The Ace (Mar 22, 2009)

One account I loved is, 'Flashman at the Charge,' by George McDonald Fraser.

Although fictional, it's well-researched and includes a third notable incident that day, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders', 'Thin Red Line,' which smashed a Russian cavalry charge by forming line and volley-fire rather than the conventional square.

Flashman (yes, that Flashman, the villain of, 'Tom Brown's Scooldays) ends up as a runner on Cardigan's staff and, caught up in the action while looking for somewhere to hide, gives a stunning eye-witness account of the battle.

This, coupled with Fraser's painstakingly detailed footnotes gives a concise, vivid and well-rounded picture of the action which forms an excellent base for further reading.


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## nj1 (Mar 23, 2009)

The Ace said:


> One account I loved is, 'Flashman at the Charge,' by George McDonald Fraser.
> 
> Although fictional, it's well-researched and includes a third notable incident that day, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders', 'Thin Red Line,' which smashed a Russian cavalry charge by forming line and volley-fire rather than the conventional square.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the reply ACE, I have added it to the little note I keep in my wallet which is where i put any books i'm keeping an eye out for. I will reply my comments here when i found and read it.

Cheers


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## Pyan (Mar 23, 2009)

nj1 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good book on this subject?



Try and find _The Reason Why: The Story of the Fatal Charge of the Light Brigade:_ Cecil Woodham-Smith, nj1 - regarded as being one of the best on the subject, I'm led to believe.


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## Cudaer (Mar 23, 2009)

I personally think that there are many examples of similar actions resulting in the deaths of soldiers. Orders given by Generals and Officers nowhere near the battle field. Another example of such was possible 'Monte Casino' during the Second World War.

I disagree with Tsujigiri that the NCO's in the modern army would say "Knob Off". I think even today they would follow the order. Most within the armed forces have a sense of Patriotism, even if they don't show it when their at home.

I can already here the shouts.....'Old fashioned!" putting it politly


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## Pyan (Mar 23, 2009)

Tsujigiri said:


> I'm led to wonder if a similar order were issued today, the reply from the NCO's would be along the lines of 'Nob off...Sir!'



No, I think that they'd assume now, as they did then, that the officers knew what they were doing...


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## Drachir (Mar 26, 2009)

Cudaer said:


> I personally think that there are many examples of similar actions resulting in the deaths of soldiers. Orders given by Generals and Officers nowhere near the battle field. Another example of such was possible 'Monte Casino' during the Second World War.
> 
> I disagree with Tsujigiri that the NCO's in the modern army would say "Knob Off". I think even today they would follow the order. Most within the armed forces have a sense of Patriotism, even if they don't show it when their at home.
> 
> I can already here the shouts.....'Old fashioned!" putting it politly



Agreed.  And as a Canadian may I use the word "Dieppe?"


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## Vladd67 (Mar 26, 2009)

Frost said:


> You could say that the British were "Lions Led By Donkeys"...
> 
> And If I remember correctly, the officer in charge was just following the orders of an old crackpot British general...He had no choice but to follow orders



IIRC he was following badly written orders that were misunderstood due to the relative positions on the battlefield.


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