# Real Supernatural



## Princess Ivy (Sep 2, 2005)

When i was a teenager i was fascinated by vampires, werewolves etc... Now i know that those two specific things have had attempts made to explain them away, skin conditions, even specific forms of anemia. I've seen experts explaining away myths of phonix's as birds laying their eggs in volcanic ash and unicorns as white rhino's (although i don't see how a rhino could be mistaken for a horse). but although some explanation has been sought, we still don't have conclusive proof one way or the other. so do they believe, as in a hidden secret undergound world where they try to escape persecution and extinction? or is it all just hokum?
please note my question is about all mythical creatures and magic, not just the four specific examples i've used.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Sep 2, 2005)

We do have conclusive proof of a lot of things. Unicorns _are _derived from garbled traveller's tales of stags and rhinos, and I've even read a lengthy scholarly work that traces the progression in some detail. 


I am sure the same holds good for other mythical beasts if you do serious research. Chimerae like the gryphon are obviously biological absurdities.


So, yes, I think it's a lot of hokum.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 2, 2005)

no, not proof, we have a lot of supposition that holds itself up as fact. as for cross species breeding, well, they're always doing odd things in labs, who says nature couldn't come up with it on her own? i hope its not, hokum that is


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Sep 2, 2005)

I realise it's fun to imagine strange beasts, but I don't understand what you mean suppositions that hold themselves up as fact. The Unicorn book, for instance, was pretty thorough. It traced popular books otraveller's tales of wonders from the times when these mths orginated, corellated them with the areas these tales claimed to speak of, later and earlier accounts and current facts. And the legendary beasts we speak of didn't always have their current forms - unicorns initially looked more like deers, which reinforces the fact that they derive partly from garbled accounts of a specific sort of mid-eastern stag with perfectl symmetical antlers that seem like one antler in profile, and they've also been dpecited as looking like goats. The horse look is far more recent. 

And really, not to be rude, but imagining that we could actually cross say an eagle and a lion shows a rather sweeping igonrance of genetics.  

What's more interesting than their objective reality are the archetypal qualities we ascribe to these beasts of myth over time - the unicorn, with its connotations of purity, the dragon, which in the east is a creature of great wisdom, and so on.


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## Stalker (Sep 2, 2005)

Of course, there are vampire beasts, _inter alia_,  and not only those belonging to bats... Here is one more story of a mystical creature:

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C83D6432-3384-44A1-9320-E887D17B7F7E


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 2, 2005)

knivesout said:
			
		

> I realise it's fun to imagine strange beasts, but I don't understand what you mean suppositions that hold themselves up as fact. The Unicorn book, for instance, was pretty thorough. It traced popular books otraveller's tales of wonders from the times when these mths orginated, corellated them with the areas these tales claimed to speak of, later and earlier accounts and current facts. And the legendary beasts we speak of didn't always have their current forms - unicorns initially looked more like deers, which reinforces the fact that they derive partly from garbled accounts of a specific sort of mid-eastern stag with perfectl symmetical antlers that seem like one antler in profile, and they've also been dpecited as looking like goats. The horse look is far more recent.
> 
> And really, not to be rude, but imagining that we could actually cross say an eagle and a lion shows a rather sweeping igonrance of genetics.
> 
> What's more interesting than their objective reality are the archetypal qualities we ascribe to these beasts of myth over time - the unicorn, with its connotations of purity, the dragon, which in the east is a creature of great wisdom, and so on.


see that's why i posted the question, i knew about the rhino, not the stag. to get information, i don't think that i really do believe in these things, but i do love to imagine them, and with things like harry potter and prospero's children bringing the myths back to earth, it is great stuff.
yes, my knowledge of genetics is woefully inept, although in hnesty i was thinking more of mules and zebonkies than griffins when i mentioned natural crossbreeding. however things like island of dr moreau do bring in the possibilities of more exotic cross breading.
i also love the qualities which are associated with these beasts and ledgends.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Sep 2, 2005)

Cool. I hope I didn't seem snarky - that was not my intention.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Sep 2, 2005)

I love the story that mermaids were supposedly inspired by sailors first sighting a seacow







Boy, that must have been strong rum onboard those ships!!


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 2, 2005)

knivesout said:
			
		

> Cool. I hope I didn't seem snarky - that was not my intention.


never babe. 


			
				Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> I love the story that mermaids were supposedly inspired by sailors first sighting a seacow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it was a ceolacanth (sorry being pedantic here)


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## Stalker (Sep 2, 2005)

When Albrecht Duerer was drawing this picture of the legendary monster inhabiting lands in Africa, he based only on tales of witnesses and he never saw the live rhino. Isn't that a genial reconstruction? 
Some time ago I also started the thread: Cryptozoology: animal X, Y and Z. http://www.chronicles-network.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7032
We might unite the threads.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 2, 2005)

i have no problem babe, but no ability either, we'd have to apply to a mod


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## kyektulu (Sep 3, 2005)

*There are many things that cannot be explained by science, not for lack of trying!
Still there are so many species of animals not discoverd, maybe just maybe a unicorn or other mythical creature could be amongst the ones not yet catalogued. I am a little sceptical about this though because there is not much land left unexplored by mankind, only the oceans have many secrets left to share!
I really dont like the theory that sailors got the stories of mermaids from sightings of Manatees... I find it hard to believe someone could mistake this creature for a beautiful female no matter how much alcohol had been imbibed! 
I would love to believe that there are still mythical creatures among us (except dragons whose species have never been extinct. Read: Dragons  the modern infestation by Pamela Wharton Blanfied (Spelt correctly?)) I live in hope. 
*


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## sanityassassin (Sep 3, 2005)

kyektulu said:
			
		

> *I really dont like the theory that sailors got the stories of mermaids from sightings of Manatees... I find it hard to believe someone could mistake this creature for a beautiful female no matter how much alcohol had been imbibed! *
> *I would love to believe that there are still mythical creatures among us (except dragons whose species have never been extinct. Read: Dragons the modern infestation by Pamela Wharton Blanfied (Spelt correctly?)) I live in hope. *


 
Kyektulu I'm afraid Mermaids were acually manatees it was more to do with there song which was said to sound like a womans voice and sleek shapes seen underwater that led to the myth. As for Dragons they are not extinct they've just gone home.


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## kyektulu (Sep 3, 2005)

*Thanks for the info GOLLUM. 
I knew there was something there but my brain isnt functioning with the 19 hour days. 
 I really should do some catching up mith my beloved Discovery channel... 
*


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## sanityassassin (Sep 3, 2005)

kyektulu said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the info GOLLUM. *
> *I knew there was something there but my brain isnt functioning with the 19 hour days. *
> *I really should do some catching up mith my beloved Discovery channel... *


 
Ahmmm I think you'll find its gollums evil twin


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## kyektulu (Sep 3, 2005)

*WHOOPS 

 My apologies! 

Oh dear can I still blame the 19 hour days? 
*


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## sanityassassin (Sep 3, 2005)

I'll let you off this time


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 3, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> so do they believe, as in a hidden secret undergound world where they try to escape persecution and extinction? or is it all just hokum?


...every once in a blue moon, a fisherman pulls some bizarre creature out of the water. The carcass is more likely to replace a myth, rather than prove a myth.


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## kyektulu (Sep 3, 2005)

*I read in the cryptozoology book I mentioned earlier that the bones of dragons are prone to turn to dust quickly (I cannot rightly remember the exact time) and this may be a contributing factor to the lack of conclusive evidence of thier existence... 
*


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## sanityassassin (Sep 3, 2005)

Just remember all myths are based originally on truth so perhaps somewhere at some time fantastical creatures did exist. They still can't dispell the myth of the loch ness monster so who knows


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## NSMike (Sep 3, 2005)

I can see how some traveller wouldn't have words to describe a rhinoceros, so he might have related it to the only other large beast he was familiar with, a Horse, in his description, and viola!  A unicorn!


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## Rosemary (Sep 3, 2005)

*OBTW there's a book titled The Green Sea-Unicorn ! I do not see how they are going to pull something out of the sea and say that's what evolved from the Green-Sea Unicorn!   *


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## kyektulu (Sep 3, 2005)

*I like to believe that all myths and legends have some factual basis. 
After all many cultures have displayed strikingly similar knowledge of the same 'mythical' creatures long before such civilisations have any form of communication.*


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## Jaxom_Ruatha (Sep 4, 2005)

Yah I've noticed that also, like how most all have a legend/story about how the Earth was flooded and then repopulated from a human and his family that for some reason or other had the only boat that could withstand the flood and had enough foresight to collect enough animals to repopulate the earth. I often think what if all the creatures really did exist such as dragons/unicorns/centaurs/flying monkeys etc. but Noah (Or whoever) didn't have the time either to get them on the ark or they didn't get along well in cramp spaces with alot of other animals, leading to their extinction? Fun to think of, if nothing else.


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## AA Institute (Sep 4, 2005)

Jaxom_Ruatha said:
			
		

> Yah I've noticed that also, like how most all have a legend/story about how the Earth was flooded and then repopulated from a human and his family that for some reason or other had the only boat that could withstand the flood and had enough foresight to collect enough animals to repopulate the earth. I often think what if all the creatures really did exist such as dragons/unicorns/centaurs/flying monkeys etc. but Noah (Or whoever) didn't have the time either to get them on the ark or they didn't get along well in cramp spaces with alot of other animals, leading to their extinction? Fun to think of, if nothing else.


 
Interesting topic. From my own background in astronomy, I know a lot of these mythical beasts like the unicorn, the flying horse, the sea serpent, the centaur, the dragon, etc. are all immortalised in the star patterns we see in the night sky. Quite a few of these stem from Greek mythology, and perhaps it's convenient that they should be depicted in the stars, and in the sky like the way they are. As you know, astronomers are now starting to find other Earth-like planets in space circling around some of these stars, and who knows whether they might have these kinds of beasts roaming on their alien surfaces...(and hopefully they are 'friendly' in our sweetly fantasy-imagined ways.)  

Since there are more stars in the night sky than there are grains of sand in all the shores, of all the oceans of Earth put together (quote from Carl Sagan), then the chances of some of them having planets with fantastical creatures like the ones we imagine, is all the more great.

AA


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## Stalker (Sep 5, 2005)

AA Institute said:
			
		

> Since there are more stars in the night sky than there are grains of sand in all the shores, of all the oceans of Earth put together (quote from Carl Sagan), then the chances of some of them having planets with fantastical creatures like the ones we imagine, is all the more great.
> 
> AA


And them multiply that all by unlimited parallel realities... Wow, it's breathtaking!


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 5, 2005)

i've always wanted to believe that dragons haven't left, they're just having a really long nap in the sun, and are mistaken for mountains, like the drakensberg in southafrica.


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## kyektulu (Sep 5, 2005)

*I must add again look at the Dragons the modern infestation book Princess Ivy it is a good read and also has photos (not brillient conclusive ones) to back up the theory of dragons still alive on earth today. If nothing else it is a good book, a little tiresome but worth the read. *


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## Rosemary (Sep 5, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> i've always wanted to believe that dragons haven't left, they're just having a really long nap in the sun, and are mistaken for mountains, like the drakensberg in southafrica.


 
Nice thought Princess Ivy.  It's always nice to dream and hope


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 5, 2005)

kyektulu said:
			
		

> ...the theory of dragons still alive on earth today.


...why wait for a myth, when you can catch a sand lizard?


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## A1ien (Sep 5, 2005)

I like to think they have retreated to the molten center of the earth for a while, which is possible because we only have circumstantial evidence to whats down there


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## kyektulu (Sep 6, 2005)

*I dont wait cyborg_cinema I have my baby water dragons Ember and Azure remember!  
*


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 6, 2005)

kyektulu said:
			
		

> ...baby water dragons...


...are they hydroponic?


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## Stalker (Sep 6, 2005)

Look here... What can you tell about this?







And here is the link to the article http://www.poormojo.org/pmjadaily/archives/000097.html


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 6, 2005)

one wonders why they don't just x-ray it. that'd show what was inside, ie bones or more rubber, and not have to destro this artwork


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 6, 2005)

Stalker said:
			
		

> What can you tell about this?


...it's standing up too straight.


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## sanityassassin (Sep 6, 2005)

its very intresting why has more investagation not been done into what it is made of. I t is defenantly a fake but what is it made of and who created it. It is a very good and detailed sculpture if it is a sculpture


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 6, 2005)

i'd hate to see it cut up for sample to be taken, i think he'd make a great ornament for my desk. he'd inspire me. i love that he has clawed toes.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 6, 2005)

although anyone doing this sort of thing in the future should note, creatures hatched from eggs should not have umbilical cords.


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## kyektulu (Sep 6, 2005)

*That was exactly what I was thinking Princess Ivy.
 It is still a lovely 'sculpture' would go just nicely in my dragon collection! 
I doubt very much that it is real, although I wish it was... 
*


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 6, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> ...he'd make a great ornament for my desk.


...that may have been what was used to form the plaster cast—a big nicknack.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 6, 2005)

can't be plaster babe, would have eroded in water, much less formaldahyde.


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 7, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> can't be plaster babe...


...I was thinking rubber dragon/plaster cast(plaster mold)—a statue set in a container that was then filled with plaster which was then dried and split to make the mold. Some hoaxers having fun, but that's probably wrong too.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 7, 2005)

the mold fabric is usually rubber, in that time it would have needed to be hot to be liquid to fill the mold which would have degraded the plaster. the originals were often made of metal (my father used to do it) or stone and set into a container. the rubber was then poured in and left to set. it was then pulled off, like a glove or stocking. that is more likely to have been created as a one off.


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 7, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> the mold fabric is usually rubber, in that time it would have needed to be hot to be liquid to fill the mold which would have degraded the plaster. the originals were often made of metal (my father used to do it) or stone and set into a container. the rubber was then poured in and left to set. it was then pulled off, like a glove or stocking. that is more likely to have been created as a one off.


...very cool.


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## Stalker (Sep 7, 2005)

Princess Ivy said:
			
		

> although anyone doing this sort of thing in the future should note, creatures hatched from eggs should not have umbilical cords.


Some snakes are viviparous. Don't know anything about real dragon biology or it might be something alse what we are taking for an umbilical cord? 
I also think it's a fake though.


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## Leto (Sep 7, 2005)

real viviparous or ovi-viviparous (the female hatched the egg in her womb, and newborn stay there for a while before real birth) ? In the latter case, there's no ombilical cord.


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## Stalker (Sep 7, 2005)

It's rather the latter, of course, I simply was cunning... or else, I simply don't know biology.


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## Leto (Sep 7, 2005)

Main thing to learn about biology : coffee and chocolate are vital elements.


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## Princess Ivy (Sep 7, 2005)

Leto said:
			
		

> Main thing to learn about biology : coffee and chocolate are vital elements.


most definatly


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## cyborg_cinema (Sep 8, 2005)

Leto said:
			
		

> Main thing to learn about biology : coffee and chocolate are vital elements.


...the story of the biologist's yellow teeth is bittersweet.


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## mikeo (Sep 18, 2005)

kyektulu said:
			
		

> *I read in the cryptozoology book I mentioned earlier that the bones of dragons are prone to turn to dust quickly (I cannot rightly remember the exact time) and this may be a contributing factor to the lack of conclusive evidence of thier existence...
> *



That's convenient.


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## kyektulu (Sep 20, 2005)

*Yes I suppose it is mikeo yet there might be some truth to it... however unlikely! 

It would be good to get some hard proof of the existence of dragons and other mythical beings yet it is more than likely such things will forever be just out of our reach, maybe it is better this way? 
Personally I think mankind spends way to much time trying to comprehend and categorise everything, we would all be better off if we just opened our minds and leave some things to the imagination, IMO.*


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## PERCON (Sep 20, 2005)

I always thought the flying fire breathing version of the dragon was created from humanities fears. Something that could stay out of reach, burn anything it wanted and could eat people, a flying killing machine. I've always hoped that this creature did exist at some point in time, however I can't quite see where it would fit into the timeline. Just after the flying dinosaurs were inheriting bird-like traits? Or maybe after that? Or before it? I just don't see where they'd fit in.
There are of course living breathing dragons on earth today. The Komodo dragon springs to mind immediately and whenever I look at one on TV it leaves me wondering, what if that could fly? Maybe it's ancestors could...
But we might never find that out because we're not really looking for it.

_PERCON 


"Living life in the fast lane... Too bad it's the only lane that exists"_


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