# Decriminalization of Marijuana



## silvercloak (Mar 11, 2004)

What do you think of this? Reasons?


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## dwndrgn (Mar 11, 2004)

silvercloak - I've moved your thread to the discussion forum as that seems a better place for a topic such as this.

As far as the decriminalization of marijuana - I don't really know enough to discuss it. I do know that unlike alcohol, it would be much more difficult to control as it is a plant that can grow just about anywhere with minimal care. I'm not sure that decriminalization would have any useful outcome, except for those that use it. As far as I know, officials put much less effort into 'criminalizing' it compared to other mind altering drugs (according to my cop friend - they generally just destroy whatever they find and treat the owners as mild offenders).

I don't know much about the effects of it as I've never been into doing that type of thing (other than the occasional drink now and then) so I couldn't say whether users are dangerous while operating equipment like while under the influence of alcohol or other drugs. 

So what is your stand? I'm assuming you are for it, going by the phrase under your screenname. So what are the reasons for the decriminalization of it?


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Mar 11, 2004)

I believe that the Dutch experience with legalisation has been largely positive. Use of harder drugs has dropped and the incidence of addiction, even to marijuana has reduced compared to other European countries like Germany where marijuana is illegal.

Marijuana is not advisable for people who have any sort of work to do simply because it relaxes one too much. However, it is a healthier and less adictive substance than nicotine, overall, so that makes you wonder why it is illegal. The reasons are many, and usually less connected with 'keeping them off the grass' than you'd think.

A person on a 'pot high' is usually calmer and less likely do something regrettable than a drunk. While I agree that marijuana has bad effects too - a loss of motivation for outwardly directed activities being one - I think that if both alcohol and nicotine can be made legal, so should marijuana.

Interestingly, marijuana is a part of my cultural heritage. I am, by birth, a Saivite Brahmin - Saivites are followers of the god Siva who is often depicted as a ganja-smoking mendicant.


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## littlemissattitude (Mar 11, 2004)

I wouldn't be opposed to the legalization of marijuana.  On the other hand, I've known people whose use of it hasn't been beneficial to them.  Still, the same can be said for alcohol use, which is legal here in the States.  It seems sort of hypocritical for one to be legal and the other not (although at least here in California, possession of small amounts of pot have been decriminalized to the point where it is the next thing to legal).

I do know that I'd rather be around someone who has been using marijuana than someone who is drunk.  I've run into a lot of belligerent drunks; I've never run into a belligerent pothead - although the people who I know personally who get stoned _too_ regularly tend to be a little _too_ passive for my taste.  That's just my experience, though.


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 18, 2004)

As with all things, moderation and responsibility use is key. Which, unfortunately, cannot be expected of it here in the UK.

Although it can relax, it is also renown for causing paranoia and drowsiness and slowing reflexes.

Thus decriminalisation really needs to be accompanied by education thay operating machinery and driving while stoned are certain to increase the chances of having an accident.

I'm sort of a cautious Bill Hicks on the issue - I've been there, done that, and for a while smoked joints like most people smoke cigarettes, becoming pretty addicted. Although I don't believe it caused myself any harm, and though I had some great experiences with it, I also recognise that cannabis - like all drugs - has its darker side.

Unfortunately the latter aspect is often lost on those advocating freer use, and all too often is hailed in quite an exaggerated light, IMO. 

On saying that, though, if I were single again, I could see myself being drawn to it again. Whether I would benefit from anyway another time around is entirely debatable, though. Having also given up addictions to alcohol and cigarettes it's probably best if I continued forward rather than step back.


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## Elohim is plural (Mar 23, 2004)

i am pro-marijuana...

i live in vancouver which is extremely tolerant, especially to medical users, so the woes of some cannabis users(especially those in the usa) are foriegn to me but not out of my realm of concern.

i have been active in the marijuana community for the last 10 years...everything from participating in rally's, to growing it, selling it and its seeds, and teaching people how to grow responsibly...a lot of my friends are much more pro-active than i

but
...no one should drive while high
...no one who is sick and needs it should go without
...use should be restricted to the local drinking age
...education is key...when you clump marijuana in the same catagory as heroin, kids try pot and suffer no serious adverse affects and think they can coast through harder drugs just as easy
...old stereo-types like the slacker-hippy-pot head must be destroyed...responsible users of marijuana(which there are many) should feel able to come forward and make themselves known without fear of reprisal

for a ton of info on this subject you can go to
www.cannabisworld.org 

i'm a member there too

for all your seed needs or if you want to stay at a hemp friendly bed and breakfast in vancouver
www.theamsterdam.com 
EIP


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## Ahdkaw (Apr 7, 2004)

This is a subject that I am highly passionate about. I am definitely pro-decriminalisation of marijuana as well as all other illegal drugs, the reasons for which I will get to later.

I have been a frequent (ab)user of marijuana since the age of 21, and I have a lot of experience with the different types and breeds of marijuana. There is a lot said about depression, paranoia, etc., but from experience I had discovered that these effects rarely manifest themselves in people who use 'standard' weeds and hashes. It is only once you start on the genetically-modified varieties of skunks that most problems begin.

Whilst in Holland, I met a chap who was very nice, but it was well known to his friends prior to his working-holiday that his family had a history of mental problems. The person had smoked weed and hash in the UK for many years before going to Holland and never experienced any forms of delusion. But, upon heavy and frequent usage of the stronger skunk varieties, he become heavily paranoid and spent a lot of his time accusing fellow workers of spying on him, wanting to kill him, etc. Far worse than all this, he was the equivalent of a brown-belt in Ninjitsu, specialising in use of Katana's. He bought one of these whilst in Holland, and would practice for many hours with it, in full view of anyone who may be out to get him. His friends eventually had to return him to the UK where he spent a lot of time in a mental institute and has never been the same again.

So yes, skunks can be very dangerous, whereas common garden varieties are somewhat safer.

Having this strong kind of skunk on the black market as well as other dangerous drugs is asking for trouble. No education, and blatent generalisation from the gavernments of our fine world only make this situation worse.

Marijuana by the way, is not addictive in the tradional sense of the word, it's is only psychologically addictive, and in that way about as addictive as potatoes. 

Freedom if choice should be a basic tenet of our human principles, but instead we are forced into criminalising a huge swath of population, who more often than not, are in need of help not arrest. We are continually forced to purchase our recreational drugs through criminal organisations, whom without drug-money would find extremely difficult to function in the present way.

Such repressive laws lead to an increase in organised crime as well as increasing the number of illegal firearms on the streets, nothing is solved with current legislation, it is just simply brushed under the carpet with the hope that is will go away. It won't.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Apr 7, 2004)

Oddly, an edible preparation of marijuana, called 'bhang' is more or less legal in most of India, as it is a component of some festivals. Tastes horrid but gives an interesting buzz.


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## littlemissattitude (Apr 8, 2004)

knivesout said:
			
		

> Tastes horrid but gives an interesting buzz.


 I don't have any idea why, knivesout, but that statement just made me laugh out loud.  Maybe because it reminds me of some of my friends when I was growing up, and some of the stupid things they'd try if they had heard it would get them high (aspirin in coca-cola was one of them; others were probably a lot more dangerous).

Also reminds me of a dear friend who always, when we'd go out, would do tequila shots and swear that he loved it, but the look on his face as he did them (like he'd just smelled and tasted something vile) made me wonder if there wasn't a more pleasant way for him to get drunk.  I miss him; haven't seen him in years, since he moved out of the area.


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 8, 2004)

Ahdkaw said:
			
		

> Marijuana by the way, is not addictive in the tradional sense of the word, it's is only psychologically addictive, and in that way about as addictive as potatoes.


Let's see you try and completely quit pot for a month, then. 

No, seriously - you tell me it's not addictive: so try to quit - just for a month. 

If you tell me you choose not to - that's its your right to choose to stay with taking it, then I'll simply reply that it's your addiction talking. The way coke fiends and alcoholics "can stop any time" but won't.

I know the culture and lifestyle surrounding it's use also makes it harder to stop as well. I would expect it'll take quite some willpower on your part.

It's actually not all that easy to quit once it's become a habit - I guess like all habits. But whether arguing that it's psychologically addictive, rather than physically addictive, doesn't diminish the fact that there is an addiction issue. 

Certainly there's a lot of crappy teaching on the dangers of cannabis - the anti-cannabis campaign itself is horribly mis-informed. But, IMO, the pro-cannabis side is also unbalanced. That's part of the problem with the whole argument.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Apr 8, 2004)

Actually, Brian, if I may jump in here, I have totally stayed away from weed for as long as three or four months at a time more than once simply because I didn't feel like it, had things going on that requird my full attention and wanted a break. My use of it today is a mere fraction of what I was into in college and it hasn't been hard to cut down. 

I don't know if that proves anything, but this has been my experience. I still wouldn't advocate its use to anyone - I have never 'turned on' another person to smoking, and I won't. That is only in keeping with the spirit of free choice, after all.


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## Ahdkaw (Apr 8, 2004)

I said:
			
		

> Let's see you try and completely quit pot for a month, then.
> 
> No, seriously - you tell me it's not addictive: so try to quit - just for a month.


Sorry to disappoint Brian, but it has been proven many times over that the active chemical within Marijuana, Tetra Hydra Cannibanol (THC), is not physically addictive. There has been plenty of research into this.

But just to advise you, I gave up pot over 3 months ago, I haven't had any withdrawal symptoms which are a sign of physical addiction, phsychologically however, I have now and again thought, 'oh, I could do with a spliff', but there is no real yearning for it.

In the years that I have smoked marijuana, I have stopped about 6 or 7 times, for several months at a time. Mainly due to monetary restrictions than anything else.

I know I am not addicted, as I am addicted to cigarettes. I have attempted to stop smoking cigarettes many, many times, only to be back onto them within a few days to a week. Physical withdrawal symptoms included high-stress levels, anger, depression, and much more besides. These kind of effects have never occurred during the stopping of marijuana use.


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## dwndrgn (Apr 8, 2004)

I'm certainly not an expert here but I've many friends and family members who tend to give me lots of info on the subject.

Both Brian and Ahdkaw are correct (according to all the research I've done, and I've done a lot due to the aforementioned friends and family).  Marijuana is not physically addictive.  However, the more you use it the more it becomes a habit and becomes attached to certain things you do - watching movies, drinking, going to sporting events, etc.  For example, a guy I know decided once that smoking it before watching a movie would be a good idea.  That same person now has a very hard time sitting down and watching a movie without it, and in fact will feel he has no desire to see a movie at all if he has no marijuana on hand to make it enjoyable.  You can track this (and I have) to see that 75% of the time when he has pot available he will want to watch a movie.  Compare that to 10% of the time when he does not have any available will he want to watch a movie (This was an unscientific study done by myself over a period of six months).  I also know a guy who is in his early 40's who has used pot regularly (daily except for those times when he couldn't afford it or find it) since his early teens.  Now, when those periods of time come along where he cannot afford to buy any, you can definitely notice a change in attitude.  Strangers notice, and wonder why he's being so cranky.  Your mind can convince you that you are a much better person when you use a substance like this, therefore, when you don't have any - you conform to what your mind has told you.

So, while it may not be physically addictive, a psychological addiction can be (I say can be because it all depends on how your own personal mind works) almost as difficult to break.  Think of how powerful your mind is - your mind is much more powerful than your body.  Consider psychosomatic illnesses.  Consider 'ghost limbs'.  So, pot isn't physically addictive.  But - see above.  And I'll leave it at that .


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## dwndrgn (Apr 8, 2004)

littlemissattitude said:
			
		

> Also reminds me of a dear friend who always, when we'd go out, would do tequila shots and swear that he loved it, but the look on his face as he did them (like he'd just smelled and tasted something vile) made me wonder if there wasn't a more pleasant way for him to get drunk. I miss him; haven't seen him in years, since he moved out of the area.


Tequila - UGH!  Smells and tastes like old, nasty, sweaty, dirty combat boots.  *involuntarily shivers in revulsion*
However, I do like Margaritas - go figure.  I could go for one now, in fact


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 8, 2004)

I guess it depends on the use involved. I was a very heavy user, as were the people I hung around with. Although people did quit, I know it did take quite some willpower for some, especially with the lifestyle involved. It's quite true that I don't know of anyone suffering physical withdrawal symptoms.

I often feel that the whole pro-issue from within the cannabis camp is often badly unbalanced, though, which is a particular point I'm trying to make. there is no real comparison between cannabis and legal drugs such as tobacco and alcohol - but I fear there is far too much of the negative aspect glossed over. The point about different skunk types was actually a very good point.


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## dwndrgn (Apr 8, 2004)

Ahdkaw said:
			
		

> Freedom if choice should be a basic tenet of our human principles, but instead we are forced into criminalising a huge swath of population, who more often than not, are in need of help not arrest. We are continually forced to purchase our recreational drugs through criminal organisations, whom without drug-money would find extremely difficult to function in the present way.
> 
> Such repressive laws lead to an increase in organised crime as well as increasing the number of illegal firearms on the streets, nothing is solved with current legislation, it is just simply brushed under the carpet with the hope that is will go away. It won't.


Ok, I can see how decriminalizing marijuana and other currently illegal drugs could decrease some small areas of crime (probably only those dealing with convenience store robberies ).  However, the subsequent needs after they are decriminalized have their own problems.  There are safety issues with regards to the general public, regulation controls (how do you regulate something that can be grown in a closet in a matter of weeks???), and enforcement of any regulatory laws that come about.  I'm just not convinced that decriminalization is the answer.


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## Ahdkaw (Apr 8, 2004)

Yeah, the different breeds of skunks available are a sure sign of human nature wanting to fiddle with anything natural to make it 'better', and whilst in this case the 'high' is definitely better, the side-effects are definitely worse.

I can understand your reasoning about the pro-cannabis view being somewhat too pro, but my point is that whilst there are lots of drugs and substances out there that are perfectly legal, they are mostly all far more dangerous than cannabis.

A conservative estimate of the number of marijuana smokers in the UK was put at about 50,000 a few years ago, but we know full well that any official figure is generally half the actual amount, as has been shown with police counts of the number of protesters against going to war with Iraq who said that around 500,000 people attended. There were actually over a million people present on that day.

I'm heading slightly off-topic there, so I better rein myself in and explain why I have brought that up. The fact is that at least 100,000 people in the UK are regular smokers, most have jobs (like myself), and don't have a problem with the herb, they are unlikely to commit crime to fund their habit, but still all these people are criminalised (whether the police take the softly-softly approach or not).

We need to take control of the situation, and for the conservatives out there - there's serious money to be made! Why let the gangsta's get rich off of all this? Once you have control over supply, you can easily keep tabs on the number of addicts (I'm talking coke, herion, etc. here), and you won't get lots of dead addicts found at home with an arm full of brick dust.

Free the people, we don't need no nanny state.


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Apr 10, 2004)

> Free the people, we don't need no nanny state.


*Cheers wildly*  

Alcohol ruins lives and breaks up homes and it's legal. Cigarettes are fairly convincingly linked with a number of health problems, including possibly cancer. Both of these subtances are legally and largely socially sanctioned or at least tolerated. Society and governments clearly have no real interest in 'protecting' us from harmful habits, in that case. Might as well stop the hypocrisy.

It's like sex, really - the repressed Victorian age actually concealed a rather amazing amount of depravity and sexual crime, or so I've figured from some of my historical reading. The more you keep something secret and taboo, the more tempting it becomes. 

I definitely agree that the pro-marijuana faction has its own share of bias and misrepresentation, by the way. I don't like propaganda - of any variety.


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## Ahdkaw (Apr 15, 2004)

dwndrgn said:
			
		

> (how do you regulate something that can be grown in a closet in a matter of weeks???)


I like this quote. The answer is of course, you can't. But yet that is exactly what the governments are attempting. Trying to stifle and control something that simply cannot be controlled is a waste of our money. 

Why are we paying to fight this unwinnable 'war on drugs'?
Because the governments are in the job of control, they control the poppy fields in the Far East for example, look at Afghanistan now, ever since the West invaded heroin-production has almost tripled at the behest of our oh-so-caring governments.

It's time to end the hypocrisy, and start acting like adults. We must learn to accept that drugs _are here to stay_, and no matter how many times people say 'drugs are bad' it's not going to make one jot of difference to the world in which we all, addicts and non-addicts alike, share.

Peace to all my brothers and sisters of the world.


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## Michael (May 21, 2004)

I have also stopped smoking the stuff, but I did experience withdrawal symptoms--for exactly 1 day. It's always that way for me. Anytime I could not get it for one reason or another it wasn't a big deal. However, studies have also shown that "psychological addiction" is still an addiction, and still has its own set of complications for the user.

I'm pretty much in agreement with Elohim's assessment.


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