# Carpenter's Apocalypse Trilogy



## Foxbat (Mar 24, 2021)

I’ve been watching John Carpenter’s Apocalypse Trilogy and these are my thoughts.
I’m a fan of Carpenter’s work but I’m not a fan_boy_. I’m not blind to his film making faults. So here we go.

Three unrelated movies they might be, but they have a common theme and that’s the end of the world, not with a bang but through gradual decay of what we perceive to be reality.

The movies are: The Thing, Prince Of Darkness and In The Mouth Of Madness. They might seem very different from each other but strip away the flesh and you find very similar skeletons underneath. They all, for instance, rely on a claustrophobic atmosphere to up the ante. Trapped and isolated in Antarctica with an alien able to mimic any living thing in the case of The Thing. Trapped in an old, abandoned church with the threat of an anti-god seeking to break into our world in the case of Prince Of Darkness. Or trapped in a small, New England town populated by crazies with seemingly no way out.

The Thing works very well. It stays reasonably close to its source material and has a pretty good dynamic running through the various characters. Suspicion and terror are rife and grow almost exponentially as the threat of what this creature could accomplish if it ever reached civilisation is revealed. It could absorb and replicate every man, woman and child it comes into contact with until there is nothing left of the Human race. Not only that, but if it ever managed to replicate an aquatic animal or maybe a bird, it could make its own way to civilisation. The tension builds until, by the end of the movie, even the audience can’t be sure who is human and who is not.

The threat of the end of the world comes with a creeping, gradual subversion.  When will our  reality be gone? Extrapolating, we would reach a point in the future when nobody knows if they are the only human left. Do they even know that they are an alien copy? This film bites into our sense of self. It shakes our notion of who we are and attacks all that makes us feel real.

The Thing, in my opinion, stands alongside Alien and Invasion Of The Body Snatchers (a movie with a very similar premise) as the pinnacle of Science Fiction horror of its time. One of Carpenter’s great triumphs in movie making.

Moving swiftly along….Prince Of Darkness. This is a film that seeks to fit our concept of godhood and the embodiment of good or evil into our world with the aid quantum mechanics. As in the _anti _particles of quantum physics, we have the idea of an _anti _god seeking to enter our reality.
It starts off well enough as our heroes/heroines gather in the old church where, hidden from the eyes of ordinary folk, the Catholic Church has guarded a container filled with what can only be described as the essence of evil.
Unfortunately, the movie tapers off halfway through into a hack-fest. A fighting retreat from room to room ensues as the servants of this evil, intent on fulfilling their purpose,  attack the ever dwindling band of investigators. We know that if the anti-god can be brought into our reality, it’s the end for all of us.

At this point, with all the panic and fighting to survive mindless minions, it has more in common with Night Of The Living Dead than Quatermass (which, apparently was the inspiration for this film). It’s a film I kind of enjoy but wish it could be better. I get the distinct impression that Carpenter started off with a good idea but just couldn’t seem to develop it enough. Any of us who have tried our hand at a bit of writing can relate to this.

In its favour, I think it carries some interesting observations. It challenges reality by showing how those with power and influence (in this case, the anti-god) can manipulate and control those who do not. They can do this to such an extent that it appears to change what we see as reality. Even in our own times, this comment is still all too relevant. Carpenter revisited and developed  this idea further in his wonderful dark SF comedy _They Live_.

Overall, interesting but a lot of unfulfilled potential in Prince Of Darkness.

In The Mouth Of Madness.
An insurance investigator is tasked with finding a missing writer and his manuscript that is due for publication. Strange happenings ensue in this nod to all things Lovecraftian. He eventually finds himself in a weird little town not on any map. By mid-movie, he constantly seeks to leave Hobb’s End but always ends up back there.

From the old hotel owner  with her naked husband chained to her ankle to all the weird little kids and ever changing painting, we know that this is a new reality. And this, of course, is the theme. Reality is a consensus fed by what we know and learn. Information. It is, in essence, what we agree it to be and if we decide to agree it’s different then different it becomes. That change comes by reading the book and seeing the world in a different light. The more people that read the book, the more things change. As the world slowly morphs into the book that, by now,  millions are reading, moral decay and panic ensue. The end comes through, not only the physical horrors unleashed but at the hands of our own subsequent madness.

I think, like Prince Of Darkness doesn’t quite deliver but it’s certainly not a bad movie.

For all their faults Prince Of Darkness and In The Mouth Of Madness are still worth watching and it’s interesting watching all three back to back because it does help see and understand the common thread running through them.

Most folk consider Halloween his best and I can see why. It practically started its own genre. But for me, The Thing is Carpenter’s true masterpiece.


----------



## Vince W (Mar 24, 2021)

I agree that _The Thing_ is Carpenter's masterpiece. It is by far the film of his that I've watched the most times. I do rate _Prince of Darkness _quite highly for its creepy and unsettling vibes. I have not seen _The Mouth of Madness_ and must rectify this in the very near future.


----------



## Randy M. (Mar 24, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> I’ve been watching John Carpenter’s Apocalypse Trilogy and these are my thoughts.
> I’m a fan of Carpenter’s work but I’m not a fan_boy_. I’m not blind to his film making faults. So here we go.
> 
> Three unrelated movies they might be, but they have a common theme and that’s the end of the world, not with a bang but through gradual decay of what we perceive to be reality.
> ...



I have a love/hate relationship with _The Thing_ since one of my favorite s.f. movies is _The Thing (From Another World)_, the 1950s attempt at filming Campbell's novella. There's a potential in Carpenter's movie that I don't feel was adequately tapped. In Americans there's this push-me-pull-you quality of individualism vs. social interaction/cooperation. Carpenter's shaggy, solitary, arcade game playing group in _The Thing_ is more like a more surly, disgruntled version of the crew from _M*A*S*H_ (movie) than like Campbell's quiet, competent and weirdly individualistic scientists. This makes _The Thing_ very much a post-Vietnam movie, and I find that lack of cohesion among the group lessens its impact. There should be a stronger emotional gut-punch when looking at your friends and colleagues, the people your survival depends on, and wondering if that is still the person you've worked with daily. Along with fear, there should be some sadness. And I don't really get that from the movie. The cohesion of the group in the earlier movie (a post WWII movie) would have made the threat from Carpenter's alien even more wrenching. And I think the Carpenter from _Assault on Precinct 13_ and _Halloween _understood that dynamic.



> Moving swiftly along….Prince Of Darkness. This is a film that seeks to fit our concept of godhood and the embodiment of good or evil into our world with the aid quantum mechanics. As in the _anti _particles of quantum physics, we have the idea of an _anti _god seeking to enter our reality.
> It starts off well enough as our heroes/heroines gather in the old church where, hidden from the eyes of ordinary folk, the Catholic Church has guarded a container filled with what can only be described as the essence of evil.
> Unfortunately, the movie tapers off halfway through into a hack-fest. A fighting retreat from room to room ensues as the servants of this evil, intent on fulfilling their purpose,  attack the ever dwindling band of investigators. We know that if the anti-god can be brought into our reality, it’s the end for all of us.
> 
> ...



I need to re-watch this. It's been years. All I recall is liking it.



> In The Mouth Of Madness.
> An insurance investigator is tasked with finding a missing writer and his manuscript that is due for publication. Strange happenings ensue in this nod to all things Lovecraftian. He eventually finds himself in a weird little town not on any map. By mid-movie, he constantly seeks to leave Hobb’s End but always ends up back there.
> 
> From the old hotel owner  with her naked husband chained to her ankle to all the weird little kids and ever changing painting, we know that this is a new reality. And this, of course, is the theme. Reality is a consensus fed by what we know and learn. Information. It is, in essence, what we agree it to be and if we decide to agree it’s different then different it becomes. That change comes by reading the book and seeing the world in a different light. The more people that read the book, the more things change. As the world slowly morphs into the book that, by now,  millions are reading, moral decay and panic ensue. The end comes through, not only the physical horrors unleashed but at the hands of our own subsequent madness.
> ...



I think we can celebrate these movies as ambitious if not entirely successful ...



> Most folk consider Halloween his best and I can see why. It practically started its own genre. But for me, The Thing is Carpenter’s true masterpiece.



... while _Halloween_ is a strikingly well-shot, well-edited, well-acted, well-orchestrated little thriller, entirely successful at achieving its aims, if not as ambitious in its scope. It's the product of a director and crew with a sharp focus on a defined story/plot, and the means to put that on film efficiently. I've watched it a dozen times and I'm always impressed by how neat and economical it is, with little of the gore that the later imitators slathered on their productions, but what gore there is gains effectiveness from the viewers' identification with Laurie and her friends, and concern for them and the children.

Randy M.


----------



## Rodders (Mar 24, 2021)

Of the three, I have only seen The Thing, which is a genuine masterpiece and one of my favour movies.

I shall make an effort to watch the other two.


----------



## svalbard (Mar 24, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> I’ve been watching John Carpenter’s Apocalypse Trilogy and these are my thoughts.
> I’m a fan of Carpenter’s work but I’m not a fan_boy_. I’m not blind to his film making faults. So here we go.
> 
> Three unrelated movies they might be, but they have a common theme and that’s the end of the world, not with a bang but through gradual decay of what we perceive to be reality.
> ...



Thanks for the review Foxbat. It brought those movies back into focus for me. I enjoyed all three. Prince of Darkness was a favourite of mine and coincided with my late teenage Heavy Metal years.


----------



## Phyrebrat (Mar 24, 2021)

Yes! Three great films - I do recognise The Thing as the technically best one, but I prefer ITMOM. POD has a wonderfully nihilistic vibe.

My favourite JC film by far is _The Fog _but I’m not sure how much that is informed by the soundtrack.

Ahoy, maties....


----------



## paranoid marvin (Mar 24, 2021)

The Thing is a brilliant movie. I actually watched Prince of Darkness for the first time recently, and was incredibly disappointed by it. I put it down to not standing the test of time.

Second favourite Carpenter movie is Escape From New York , which I've always admired. In fact his first 9 movies from Dark Star through to Big Trouble are all brilliant films in their own way. Things start to gradually go downhill after that though.

Best thing about Carpenter's movies though are the incredible soundtracks.


----------



## The Scribbling Man (Mar 24, 2021)

I love The Thing - one of my favourite films. I enjoy some of Carpenter's other films, but none quite hit the same heights as that one. I wasn't crazy on In The Mouth of Madness and I'm yet to see Prince of Darkness. 



Randy M. said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with _The Thing_ since one of my favorite s.f. movies is _The Thing (From Another World)_, the 1950s attempt at filming Campbell's novella.



I've been fascinated with how that film might have been had it gone down the shape-shifting route (which I believe was the original intent). I've been working on a project for quite some time now that reimagines Carpenter's The Thing as if it were made in the 1950's. AKA reframing it, putting it in black and white, removing any cursing or gratuitous violence, rescoring it with music from the period etc..


----------



## Randy M. (Mar 24, 2021)

Interesting. I recall reading somewhere that Howard Hawks wanted to go the shape-shifting route but didn't have the special effects to pull it off. I do see the two versions as being very post-WWII and extremely post-Vietnam.


----------



## paranoid marvin (Mar 24, 2021)

Randy M. said:


> Interesting. I recall reading somewhere that Howard Hawks wanted to go the shape-shifting route but didn't have the special effects to pull it off. I do see the two versions as being very post-WWII and extremely post-Vietnam.




This surprises me. Even without computers and more modern technology, the movie industry was incredibly adept at rigging up scenes to make them look authentic. If you can have a bat turning into a man or a man into a wolf, they should have been capable of an alien transferring from one shape into another. And even if you don't see it directly, switching camera angle to the shadow of a shape morphing could have been done equally (if not more) effectively. 

I agree that the original 'The Thing' is up there with 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' for post-WWII cold war paranoia.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 25, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> Best thing about Carpenter's movies though are the incredible soundtracks.


I recently saw a documentary on Carpenter and, apparently, he’s been touring performing his music. I wonder if he uses clips from his movies during the performance? If he does, I’d jump at the chance to go see him.

 It’s extremely rare (I think) to find a director also so very capable of producing his own evocative soundtracks. It turns out his father was a composer and it seems some of this has skill has rubbed off on the son.


----------



## Dave (Mar 25, 2021)

Rodders said:


> Of the three, I have only seen The Thing... I shall make an effort to watch the other two.


Me too, and I haven't seen Halloween either! (I didn't think it would be my thing). But I will root out the other two and watch them now, thanks.

However, I have seen _Assault on Precinct 13_ and_ Escape from New York_ and _Escape from L.A. _Aren't those considered to be "Apocalypse" films (certainly the latter two). Who decides that those three films are an "Apocalypse Trilogy"? All his films have that theme of a "gradual decay of what we perceive to be reality."

The kind of tension that you describe being built up is very evident in _Assault on Precinct 13 _(my first introduction to John Carpenter). The more recent remake totally fails on doing the same and is ****.

_Escape from New York_ is one of my favourite films. Who can not like Kurt Russell as Snake Plsken? Unfortunately, _Escape from L.A._ was just an attempt at a money making cash in.



paranoid marvin said:


> Best thing about Carpenter's movies though are the incredible soundtracks.


The music certainly complements his films very well.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 25, 2021)

Dave said:


> Who decides that those three films are an "Apocalypse Trilogy"?


It was Carpenter himself who described them as a trilogy.


----------



## Phyrebrat (Mar 25, 2021)

Dave said:


> Me too, and I haven't seen Halloween either! (I didn't think it would be my thing). But I will root out the other two and watch them now, thanks.



 Really? I don’t know why but I’m shocked; be very interested to hear what you think of the others. (And don’t forget The Fog, either!)


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 25, 2021)

I think I have The Fog on DVD somewhere. Going to have to hunt it down now


----------



## Phyrebrat (Mar 25, 2021)

Funnily enough I introduced _The Fog_ in this Twitter thread yesterday: 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374733148542676994


----------



## Randy M. (Mar 25, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> This surprises me. Even without computers and more modern technology, the movie industry was incredibly adept at rigging up scenes to make them look authentic. If you can have a bat turning into a man or a man into a wolf, they should have been capable of an alien transferring from one shape into another. And even if you don't see it directly, switching camera angle to the shadow of a shape morphing could have been done equally (if not more) effectively.



As I recall, it was a quick statement without much detail. Hawks may not have wanted to go the Val Lewton route, and showing the shape-shifting more directly might have been too costly. Remember, this was probably a relatively low budget movie. No big name stars, mostly stage sets with a few outdoor shots and Hawks didn't want to direct (or, at least didn't want director credit) because he was wary of directing an s.f. movie being viewed as a come-down from directing movies like _I Was a Male Warbride_, _The Big Sleep_, _Red River_, etc.



> I agree that the original 'The Thing' is up there with 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' for post-WWII cold war paranoia.



Yes, that, but also the camaraderie and can-do attitude of the soldiers. The movie kind of has a split personality: Optimism and confidence born of having won the war and gained the power (political, economic, etc.) that comes from victory versus the fear of spreading communism and the American view that it quashed individuality and absorbed people into an amorphous system making them indistinguishable cogs in that system.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 25, 2021)

Personally, I’m glad that The Thing and The Thing From Another World are a bit different. It means we got two great movies from one source


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 25, 2021)

Just finished watching The Fog. It is, indeed, a pretty damn fine movie


----------



## The Scribbling Man (Mar 25, 2021)

I really liked The Fog. I had low expectations because I hadn't seen it rated as one of his better films, but I think it's up there. Really effective and entertaining. Wonderfully shot.


----------



## Dave (Mar 25, 2021)

Okay, I'll find copies of the others, and also _The Fog,_ and watch them in the next few weeks. Then I'll report back here. (I may have seen them before and forgotten - I do that a lot too, but the _Horror_ film genre in general doesn't really sail my boat - unless it's _Psycho_ or _Alien)._


----------



## paranoid marvin (Mar 26, 2021)

Dave said:


> Okay, I'll find copies of the others, and also _The Fog,_ and watch them in the next few weeks. Then I'll report back here. (I may have seen them before and forgotten - I do that a lot too, but the _Horror_ film genre in general doesn't really sail my boat - unless it's _Psycho_ or _Alien)._




Just make sure it's the Jamie Lee Curtis version of The Fog. The remake isn't awful, but it's not as good as the original. Interestingly neither movie is anything like James Herbert's novel.

Carpenter was obviously a fan of both Kurt Russell and Donald Pleasance as they appeared in several of his movies. I 've always enjoyed Donald's films as he lends an air creepiness whatever movie he's in, even when he's one of the good guys!

And I'm a firm believer that good music makes for a good film, and who better to provide the soundtrack than the director himself? Halloween and Precinct 13 in particular have fantastic tracks that perfectly match the on-screen action, and I'd definitely put him up there with John Williams as one of the greats of movie soundtracks


----------



## Dave (Mar 26, 2021)

_Dave's Notes_
First up - *Prince of Darkness*
Okay, my first impression is that it was very _of its time_ - 1987 - that incidental music, the mullets, the big hair and that Freddy Mercury moustache! I got married in 1988 and my Wedding photos are the same. I haven't seen this film before, and that is the reason, I was just too busy that year, working, working, and working more mostly!

Anyhow, you asked for a review (sort of asked) so I'm afraid I'm going to only give it 3/5. I have to remember how old it is, but quite frankly, the story is the same as _Ghostbusters_ (1984) and this didn't have the humour of that! There was far too much technobable (it can't possibly be that acid), some serious over-acting, and that propensity in all horror films for everyone to wander away, and to get picked off, one by one.

I also didn't find the water feature very frightening, sorry! Or the p***ing out of the mouth either.

Donald Pleasance made a believable priest. The music was good, as always. And the other thing I noticed - Alice Cooper? (He didn't need any make-up as a walking dead person either).


----------



## Phyrebrat (Mar 26, 2021)

I think maybe 3 out of 5 is a fair score. I’m such a JC fanboy that I might be the kind of person that gives it 4 or 5 just because I’m presold.

Dave, what did you think of the nihilistic cosmic horror side of it?

Don’t forget to watch TheFog. My fave JC film.


----------



## Vince W (Mar 27, 2021)

I think 3/5 for PoD is about spot on, maybe 3.5/5. I enjoy the overall creepy feeling that I find unsettling but I always felt unsatisfied by it somehow. I guess I always expected a few more shocks rather than the continuous building tension that I never felt was resolved in the end.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 27, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> Just make sure it's the Jamie Lee Curtis version of The Fog. The remake isn't awful, but it's not as good as the original. Interestingly neither movie is anything like James Herbert's novel.


I watched a documentary on the making of The Fog and I just assumed it was based on the novel (I’ve never read it) but Carpenter says he got the idea when visiting Stonehenge. He said a fog descended and it seemed to pulse with light. My own guess is it might have been the headlights from traffic on the road. Of course, maybe he just said this to avoid paying for the rights


----------



## Dave (Mar 27, 2021)

Phyrebrat said:


> Dave, what did you think of the nihilistic cosmic horror side of it?


Yes, I'm wrong to say that it was the same story as _Ghostbusters_, because that nihilism was a central theme, and the opening of the portal for the son of all evil came along together with a lot of scientific theory to try to explain away traditional religious values and beliefs. As I said though, it was mostly technobabble: what is the longest word and newest discovered particle we can throw into the mix here? All delivered by Prof. Victor Wong, the ultimate typecast beatnik Confucius philosopher. And for what possible reason did they need that mobile isolation glovebox? Sorry, but I had no nightmares about things waiting for me behind my bedroom mirror last night.

I'll be leaving _The Fo_g until last as it is clearly the best of these three.


----------



## HareBrain (Mar 27, 2021)

Whenever I see this thread title, my brain jumps to the possibility that it features the 1970s music duo, versus zombies.

I watched _Prince of Darkness _as a relative youth, and it stuck in my head for decades before I even found out what it was called. I haven't tried to watch it since, though, as deep down I know it would be pants.


----------



## Ursa major (Mar 27, 2021)

Vince W said:


> I have not seen _The Mouth of Madness_ and must rectify this in the very near future.


If for no other reason, I'm grateful to Foxbat for this thread because, though I _have_ seen the film, I missed the beginning and either never knew, or had forgotten**, its name.


** - I might have looked it up at the time -- I was buying a newspaper (with a TV listing section) every day back when it was broadcast -- but I don't recall doing so.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 27, 2021)

Overall, I find John Carpenter’s work often flawed but it still draws me back for some reason. I wouldn’t call myself a fanatical horror movie watcher but there’s something about his work that I like and I’m not even sure what it is. Maybe it’s because he’s been an independent (and independently minded) filmmaker for most of his career. With Halloween, he was lucky enough to make the right film at the right time, whereas, with other movies, he’s not been quite in tune with cinema going audiences. Most of his movies have flaws either in plot or execution but I’ll happily sit down and spend an evening with any of them.

Of course, the biggest mistake any newcomer to his work can make is to class him as just another horror  film maker. Escape From New York, They Live and Starman are three movies I can think of that say otherwise (there are others). And going back to the work he did with Dan O’Bannon on Dark Star and by O’Bannon’s own admission, without Dark Star, we would never have had Alien.


----------



## paranoid marvin (Mar 27, 2021)

[QU


Foxbat said:


> Overall, I find John Carpenter’s work often flawed but it still draws me back for some reason. I wouldn’t call myself a fanatical horror movie watcher but there’s something about his work that I like and I’m not even sure what it is. Maybe it’s because he’s been an independent (and independently minded) filmmaker for most of his career. With Halloween, he was lucky enough to make the right film at the right time, whereas, with other movies, he’s not been quite in tune with cinema going audiences. Most of his movies have flaws either in plot or execution but I’ll happily sit down and spend an evening with any of them.
> 
> Of course, the biggest mistake any newcomer to his work can make is to class him as just another horror  film maker. Escape From New York, They Live and Starman are three movies I can think of that say otherwise (there are others). And going back to the work he did with Dan O’Bannon on Dark Star and by O’Bannon’s own admission, without Dark Star, we would never have had Alien.



The great thing about Carpenter is I think he primarily made films that he wanted to watch. He certainly didn't go with the mainstream or try and stay safe with known successful areas. Although some of his movies  are (supposedly) set in the same 'universe' he obviously wasn't big on sequels (and ironically the one time he did it was a bit of a disaster)


----------



## Dave (Mar 28, 2021)

_Dave's Notes Part II_
*In the Mouth of Madness (1994)*

My first impression on this was... Kurt Vonnegut!
This was a much better film than _Prince of Darkness_, a definite 4/5.
I didn't see this at the cinema, but parts of it seemed familiar, so maybe I have seen it before one late night on TV. Maybe also falling asleep while it was on. I think the disorientating sequences would have worked much better when watched in a cinema.



Foxbat said:


> Quatermass (which, apparently was the inspiration for [_Prince of Darkness_]).


Hobbs End was also the name of the fictional underground station in _Quatermass and the Pi_t.

So then, what is "Reality"? The big questions! Even what we think our eyes see is partly just made up by our brains, so who really knows what is real and what is not?

I rated this film so highly because of all the ideas stuffed into into its 1 hour 35 minutes. For a start, I love films that 'break the fourth wall' like this did at the end. Also wasn't the premise of this film originally a Monty Python sketch? - the one where everyone dies laughing after reading a joke? The waking up inside a dream when you are still inside another dream - that went on, stretched to become a whole 3 hour long film called _Inception! _Then, the idea of being stuck living inside a book is one on which Jasper Fforde has made his whole career out of. The woman that didn't exist because she had been written out of the book. John Scalzi's _Redshirts_ uses these ideas too!

"For years I thought I was making all this up but they were telling me what to write!" says Sutter Cane. No explanation of the blue eyes (his favourite colour) or the alien puppet master hanging on his back though? Maybe there were just too many ideas in this?

There were some genuinely creepy things in this, before it got onto the gory parts - the cyclists and the children - and I much prefer creepy to gore in my horror films.

I'm really pleased that this thread has made me watch these. When I've seen _The Fog_, does anyone want to suggest more we could discuss together? I think there used to be a *Film Club* thread here for doing just that, and although it was attempted to revive it several times, there were never any takers. That's a shame as in these times of Covid-19, and with cinemas closed, I have a lot more free time for this.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 29, 2021)

There was indeed a film club but it died a death. Everything has a natural lifespan and I think it’s demise was fed by the fact that many folk were just voting for their favourite movie without considering how worthy it was of discussion.

As for other Carpenter movies, a particular favourite of mine is They Live. It‘s what I would describe as a dark comedy with some great one liners. It still plays around with the nature of what is real to us but at least the protagonist gets to look cool when finding out reality is not what he thought it was 

It would be interesting to see what you make of that.


----------



## Phyrebrat (Mar 29, 2021)

They Live! Excellent recommendation!

NOBODY TELL DAVE SPOILERS ABOUT THAT FANOUS LINE!!! 

pH


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 30, 2021)

Today I’ve been watching Christine.

I’ve always thought the whole idea of a ‘demon’ car a bit silly but when I read the novel, I thought it surprisingly good. 

The same goes for  Carpenter’s adaptation. It shouldn’t work but it does. Very enjoyable movie


----------



## Rodders (Mar 31, 2021)

Christine was a great movie and i'm glad it holds up well. Carpenter was responsible for many great movies in the 80's, although i've not yet seen Halloween. 

But i digress. We have the Easter Holiday coming up, so i'll try and watch the other two apocalypse movies.


----------



## Foxbat (Mar 31, 2021)

I’ve decided to watch Vampires next. It got mixed reviews but I really like it. Okay, there’s nothing really cerebral going on in this one, it’s just an action movie with vampires, and James Woods gets to tell them to go ***k themselves  but it’s good wholesome fun.


----------



## Vince W (Mar 31, 2021)

I also think _Vampires_ is a great film. Fast paced and lots of fun.


----------



## Dave (Mar 31, 2021)

_Dave's Notes part III_
*The Fog (1980)*
I have seen this before, just a very long time ago and sorry @Phyrebrat but I just don't rate it that highly. Actually, I'm thinking now that I should have given a higher score to _In the Mouth of Madness. _This is a 3.5/5.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we are responsible for the sins of our fathers. I also don't understand why people opened their doors in the middle of the night to someone knocking in that stilted, unnatural way. I'd have just told them to **** off back to the pub!

I had a few other observations: basically, Jamie Lee Curtis' role here was just as a screamer. I was also a bit shocked that when they went to collect Andy from the beach house, no one bothered to check on old Mrs. Kobrity. She could have fallen and had an accident, or she could have been beheaded by a 100-yaer-old spirit, but who really knows now?

I didn't understand how Stevie, the pilot of the airwaves, could detail the position of the Fog as it moved inland across the town, given that her lighthouse was down at the bottom of a cliff-face.

Finally, I have to say that if the stolen money was spent on building the church, then that was pretty shoddy workmanship, with all those loose and falling rocks. Quite obviously, it mostly went into the flaming gold cross.



> What’s your favorite horror movie that DOESN’T have a sequel?


The ending certainly asks for a sequel, but wouldn't we need to wait another 100 years?


----------



## Dave (Apr 1, 2021)

_Dave's Notes part IV_
*They Live (1988)*

First thoughts - where is David Icke in all this?

I've not seen this before and it was great! Severely under-rated, I think! This is the best of the John Carpenter films that I hadn't seen before. BTW I have seen _Christine_ before and agree that it is hard to think of a car being evil..

This is a great idea, very 1950/60's SF in style, and especially with the idea of the glasses to see them. I did think it lost it's way somewhere in the middle with the six-minute alley brawl, but apparently that is now on the all-time lists for best fight scenes. 

I thought that the Cable 64 TV studio and the under-city subway system tunnels seemed a little low tech for aliens that regularly travel to Andromeda, but that's a minor nit. Loved it!

And Holly had seemed like such a nice girl!



Phyrebrat said:


> They Live! Excellent recommendation!
> 
> NOBODY TELL DAVE SPOILERS ABOUT THAT FAMOUS LINE!!!
> 
> pH



"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum." I've never heard that before. As I said earlier, from 1987 thru the early 1990's I hardly remember anything at all. It was all work, sleep and family stuff.


----------



## Dave (Apr 2, 2021)

_Dave's Notes part V_
*Vampires (1998)* 

I must have seen the end of this before (again probably late at night after work) but I've never seen the whole thing before.

First thoughts, if we are doing modern-day updates of vampirism, then I like _What We Do in the Shadows_ best. This had that same western feel as _Dusk to Dawn _which unfortunately made it seem a little unoriginal. I liked it though, I'd give it 3.5 or even 4 stars.

I did like the alternative origin story for vampirism. If you asked a vampire what they most wanted, then to walk during the daylight hours sounds like a likely answer, so the film's premise seems valid. Why the church would not destroy the Black Cross is much less likely.

I think John Crow's decision not to build a new team was flawed, but luckily he got away with that. "I will find you, I will hunt you down, and I will kill you!" - isn't that Liam Neeson's line in _Taken_?

And the Cardinal had seemed like such a nice man! I'm getting this same vibe from these JC movies - don't trust the nice guy/gal.

Now some nits - The young priest - I never learnt to drive (but the church sent me to the USA where you can't get any place without driving). When the master vampire of all the other master vampires is killed, then surely all the others are released from whatever spell they were under??


----------



## Foxbat (Apr 3, 2021)

Dave said:


> Now some nits - The young priest - I never learnt to drive (but the church sent me to the USA where you can't get any place without driving). When the master vampire of all the other master vampires is killed, then surely all the others are released from whatever spell they were under??


Yes, I thought this was a fatal flaw. Never read the book on which it was based but I’d guess maybe a more cinematic ending (with the open option of a sequel) was thought necessary.

The protagonist exit always looks more intense and dramatic if he rides/drives/walks off into the sunset with a job still to be done (even more dramatic because we know his job is to hunt down and kill his best friend).


----------



## Foxbat (Apr 3, 2021)

Anticipating being asked ‘what book’ I’ve gone back and watched the opening credits (where it’s mentioned). The book is Vampires by John Steakley. It was published in 1990. 
I can see the Dusk till Dawn comparison and, interestingly, if Carpenter had stuck closely to the original plot, this wouldn’t have been an issue (see plot summary in link). I wonder how much of this movie’s evolution was influenced by the success of Tarantino’s movie?








						Vampires (novel) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Dave (Apr 3, 2021)

Okay, so I watched _Memoirs of an Invisible Man_. This is another one that I must have caught the tail end of once, on TV, late some night after work. I think that I'm now up to date with all JC films; that I've seem them all, if some a very long time ago, and I think I might watch them again. Please let me know if you think otherwise. JC films are not "great" films, however none of them is a bad film. They are comfortable films that you could watch over again and still find new things.

_Dave's Notes part VI_
*Memoirs of an Invisible Man*

First thoughts- Chevy Chase - he isn't really that funny. This may be why I have avoided watching this film. It is also from that short period of time when Daryl Hannah was considered a sex symbol.

This was a mistake. I was very surprised how good this was. Not a great comedy, but even so, I thought:

_Let's not do anything cheap and meaningless.
How much do I owe you?
You couldn't afford it!_

and saying that his name was "Harvey," and then the _keeping track of our kids_ lines were all very amusing.

Quite a different John Carpenter film.


----------



## BAYLOR (Apr 4, 2021)

Ursa major said:


> If for no other reason, I'm grateful to Foxbat for this thread because, though I _have_ seen the film, I missed the beginning and either never knew, or had forgotten**, its name.
> 
> 
> ** - I might have looked it up at the time -- I was buying a newspaper (with a TV listing section) every day back when it was broadcast -- but I don't recall doing so.



It's one of the best Lovecartian themed films of all time.


----------



## Ray Zdybrow (Jun 26, 2021)

An interesting discussion of Carpenter's Apocalypse Trilogy Here. They also discuss* John Carpenter's Cigarette Burns, *an hour-long TV movie (it's on Vimeo for free, with Dutch[?] subtitles), which you may want to watch first as they talk about it in some detail (ie, SPOILERS!).
I agree with the posts about Carpenter's films being flawed, but his BEST films (including *Cigarette Burns*, and except for *The Thing*) are the flawed ones imo.


----------

