# Defiance (SyFy)



## Lenny (Apr 16, 2013)

*Defiance* is a new post-contact (with a good argument for post-apocalyptic) science fiction series on SyFy developed in collaboration with Trion Worlds, a video game developer, who are producing an MMO connected to the series (separate thread here). It's quite an ambitious project by both parties, with series events affecting the game world, and vice versa. The game was released on April 2nd, to fair-to-good reviews, and the first episode (a feature-length) of the series aired tonight.

*Defiance* is set many decades in the future, on an Earth that has been terraformed by a collective of alien species known as the Votans, who came to Earth after their star system was destroyed by a stellar collision. They arrived thinking that Earth was uninhabited, but discovered that they were wrong. Humanity was hostile, but allowed the Votans to set up colonies. However, after ten years of rising tension, the Votan ambassador was assassinated and war broke out. The series begins around 2050, around two decades after the war ended.

More background, and profiles on the seven races that comprise the Votans, can be found on the Wikipedia page.

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On to my thoughts after the first episode.

SyFy is the channel that everyone loves to hate. Whilst they have produced gems such as the new *Battlestar Galactica* and *Stargate: Universe*, they're better known for low budget series like *Haven* and *Warehouse 13*, or any one of thousands of so-terrible-they're-good films.

I'm pleased to say that *Defiance* is showing signs of being closer to BSG and S:U than W13. Sure, the script isn't brilliant, and the CGI is obviously fake more often than not, but it has its heart in the right place, and it's actually pretty good -- the story has legs, the make-up, costume, and set departments have done some decent work, Bear McCreary is on soundtrack duty, and the mythology is deep and shows promise. I'm not sure how much of this is down to the partnership with Trion (I'd guess a fair amount of the world-building is. After all, game developers have entire teams just for that, who usually do a damned good job), but I'm thankful for it.

What's more, Defiance has a good cast, including: Grant Bowler, Julie Benz, Jaime Murray, Tony Curran, and Fionnula Flanagan. Stephanie Leonidas (who I must admit is an unknown to me) also puts in a very good performance alongside Grant Bowler in a leading role, and her character, Irisa, is an early contender to be my favourite.

I started watching expecting it to be a terrible waste of hype (particularly as the first five minutes contains a cringe-worthy, and extended, sing-along to Johnny Cash), as befitting SyFy, but Defiance has pleasantly surprised me, and earnt a spot in my weekly watching schedule as a result.

_Recommended if you like science fiction with a rich mythology, but don't mind everything taking place on Earth (you could even say that it's a terrestrial space opera), with special effects that aren't really that special but do the job well enough._

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The obligatory question: is anyone else watching? Thoughts, if you are?


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## Connavar (Apr 16, 2013)

You give hope that Defience might not suck.   I hope its decent atleast like Stargate Universe was far from great but still enjoyable.  I had almost giving up on new SF like this until i saw the news of this series just today i Tv.com

Im just finishing Fringe after watching Season 1-4 the last weeks on Netflix.  I was thinking i need more good SF shows like that today too.


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## clovis-man (Apr 16, 2013)

Hmm. My first impressions aren't quite as positive. Overall it has the feel of a cross between *Alien Nation* and the cantina at Mos Eisley in *Star Wars*. Lots of action and lots of make-up (Took me a while to recognize H.G. from Warehouse 13). But the dialogue is vapid and totally cliched. Most characters are like cardboard cutouts. The old saw of people who don't like each other uniting against a common foe is too well traveled to be taken seriously.

The positive: Good role for Graham Greene. Stephanie Leonidas (who I don't know at all) fits well in the role of Irisa. Not so impressive from there, though. I'll watch a couple more episodes to see if it gets better.


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## Susan Boulton (Apr 17, 2013)

I tried honestly, but gave up after an hour. There was nothing there to lift it from the run of the mill TV SF. I don't need lots of aliens or CGI. I need a good plot and strong dialogue and sadly this didn't seem to have either.


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## ctg (Apr 17, 2013)

It's too early to say if SyFy cocked it up by making less then great pilot episode in their search to find a replacement for BattleStar Galactiga. By comparing those two pilots together, the new BGS wins the title blindfolded and hands tied back as there hasn't been a pilot episode like that in decades. But if you look the very last segment, the last 24 seconds before the episode finished, you will get the idea - Defiance is a mixture of Fallout game series and apocalyptic Science-Fiction. 

You can also see that it lending great deal from SyFy's Town Called Eureka by placing a similar kind rough face as a sheriff for the Defiance. And I'm sure that a couple of geeks also see references to the Indiana Jones and the Avatar movie. However even then a series like this should stand on its own two feet without lending anything from other productions. And in SyFy's case, they should had done that as if you look BGS and Caprica, you can see Ronald D. Moore did his best to make both series unique, where in this one most of the money was blown on special effect.

But because of those last twenty four seconds, I will be watching this series to see where does it eventually lead, as you shouldn't judge series by watching one episode.


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## Steve Jordan (Apr 17, 2013)

It's true the first episode wasn't impressive... but how many of us remember the first episode of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_?  If I'd been a TV exec, I never would've let that piece of junk out of the vault!  But look what we got.  

_Defiance_'s opening ep was better than _that_.  So I'm prepared to give it room to breathe (though hopefully not for the season-and-a-half it took _TNG_ to settle in).  We can only hope the cliche'd characters amount to something in future writing, and stories don't settle into the usual tired dystopian tropes or prime-time soaps we've all had enough of.

And since I doubt they will have much of an SFX budget (the lion's share of it apparently going into game development, and probably blown on the pilot), hopefully the stories will be down-to-Earth enough to avoid much of a need for effects.


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## Lenny (Apr 17, 2013)

My biggest worry is that the rest of the episodes are just going to be Nolan acting as Sheriff of Defiance - something happens in the shadows (that will allow the story to delve into the history of one of the Votan races), credits roll, cut to Nolan at the bar being told something has happened, half an hour of bumbling before suddenly realising who did whatever was done, and then an ominous scene linking the episode to the main arc.


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## Steve Jordan (Apr 17, 2013)

If they intended to do that, they could have saved themselves time and money and brought back _Eureka_.  That plot would work on occasion, but I agree, it would get tiring fast if done constantly.

Hopefully, Nolan will  more often be playing fly-on-the-wall, being the viewer's eyes into what makes Defiant unique, how its people interact, and how we ended up this way.

I expect him to be regularly stepping in between the Montagues and the Capulets, keeping their feud to a slow boil, in the midst of everything else.

The one thing I can't forgive the show for is the *!@&%#$!*&!!! Bearantulas and such ghosa!  *You want me to stop taking this show seriously?  Go on, then: Put in more of those *cheap Siffie monsters.*


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## Droflet (Apr 21, 2013)

Hmm, yeah it was okay (sort of). I couldn't escape the feeling that I was watching the beginning of another Terra Nova style show. If they pick up the writing side of the show it has some potential. Yet, there is still that nagging feeling that it's going to suck big chunks. Time will tell.


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## Connavar (Apr 21, 2013)

Lenny said:


> *My biggest worry is that the rest of the episodes are just going to be Nolan acting as Sheriff of Defiance - *something happens in the shadows (that will allow the story to delve into the history of one of the Votan races), credits roll, cut to Nolan at the bar being told something has happened, half an hour of bumbling before suddenly realising who did whatever was done, and then an ominous scene linking the episode to the main arc.



Thats my worry too when i saw the first ep yesterday.  I hope the story isnt limited too much to the town, its people.  I want a broader SF story of the different alien races,how the world is like outside Defiance.  Episodic generic stories focused only on Defiance and its people will be too much like Terra Nova was.

I liked Nolan and his alien daughter.  Hope they keep those characters interesting.


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## Ice fyre (Apr 22, 2013)

Well, I watched the pilot, and rather enjoyed it. Make up was good nice effects, the bear spiders were interesting, could be awful later on tho. Quite frankly I cringed at the Star Wars rip off before the big battle, the what are you going to spend your reward on bit. I just hope they keep thier heads clear and keep a good writing team on it. The game interaction could be a major positive, new ideas being put forward, but it could also wreck it as well. I will be watching the next episode and hope it continues the mostly good work shown by the pilot.


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## ratsy (Apr 22, 2013)

I watched the pilot last night and liked it.  A lot better than Terra Nova. That was the worst!

I will give the show a go and hope its stays on track


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## Lenny (Apr 24, 2013)

Lenny said:


> My biggest worry is that the rest of the episodes are just going to be Nolan acting as Sheriff of Defiance - something happens in the shadows (that will allow the story to delve into the history of one of the Votan races), credits roll, cut to Nolan at the bar being told something has happened, half an hour of bumbling before suddenly realising who did whatever was done, and then an ominous scene linking the episode to the main arc.



Just watched the second episode, and I'm relieved to say that it's not as bad as I feared.

Whilst it does look like the show is going to use an event of the week to provide the bulk of the episode's story, it also appears that these events are going to be linked to the main story arc. Running parallel will be side-stories that give us a look at the different races. In the second episode, for example, we were treated to the religion of the Castithan.


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## clovis-man (Apr 30, 2013)

The last episode about the burrowing critters was actually pretty entertaining. And some new elements are introduced which could prove interesting. It's still just a story about different types working out their differences for the most part. But not all that bad so far.

My only worry is that the game connection will dictate the direction of the series, which could end up in nothing more than body counts.


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## Steve Jordan (May 1, 2013)

I wasn't impressed with the critters episode at all.  The entire story was crazy-stupid IMO, from the guy who puts on antique shoes to go running in bear-spider-filled forests, to the giant bug-mama at the end.  And pretty much everything in-between.

I want to give Defiance time to breathe.  But we're only three episodes in, and the air's getting pretty rank already.  Many more eps like this, and I may just take off and see if it's still here in a year or two.


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## Lenny (May 11, 2013)

The most recent episode (fourth) was good, and mercifully low on special effects!

After three episodes, I'm very glad to see that we're not getting a crime of the week show. Sure, something happens each episode that gets Nolan involved, but his investigation is a minor part of the episode, which instead gives the alien cultures (and new tech) time to breath and show themselves.

I hope we get more consistent screen time for Irisa - Stephanie Leonidas was very good in the pilot, and the burrowing critters episode, but we didn't see that much of her in the second episode, and we barely saw her at all in the fourth.

---

In other news, *Defiance* has been doing so well for SyFy (apparently netting the channel the top spot on cable for that timeslot on three consecutive Mondays) that it has already been renewed for a second series of thirteen episodes, with production due to start in August:

http://www.seat42f.com/syfy-renews-defiance-for-a-second-season.html


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## Connavar (May 12, 2013)

I havent watched ep 4 yet because i have lost interest in this show.  It isnt good enough at the moment for me to watch.  It is not as bad Revoluation but the only character that have charisma, that makes me care for her is Irisa.


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## Daisy-Boo (May 13, 2013)

I tried to watch the pilot twice and fell asleep both times. From all accounts it gets better from episode 2 so maybe I will give the pilot another try.


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## Ice fyre (May 13, 2013)

I am quite enjoying Defiance now, things seem to be getting set up nicely. The races are intriguing, I am looking forward to some explanations on how there were so many different species on the ships that invaded. The human element is going to be interesting, there are clearly other factions, who sound ...worrying for the inhabitants of Defiance. Cant wait to find out more about the big ape style aliens.


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## freetuga (May 20, 2013)

I like Defiance, but i understand why some people not like. It is because the show don't have many action, but it have a great creativity to create a new world with many races and a great sci-fi/apocalypse scenery. I think the show will become more interesting when the plan of "evil" can known and when they start fight against them.


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## Ice fyre (May 22, 2013)

Another stonking episode, kinda caught a wild west feel that I thought they were striving for and is becoming more and more evident as time goes on. The war criminal's execution was unexpected to me to say the least! Interesting the artifact seems to be gaining some influence of the younger sibling, yeah this is shaping up nicely I think.


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## Connavar (May 22, 2013)

Ice fyre said:


> Another stonking episode, kinda caught a wild west feel that I thought they were striving for and is becoming more and more evident as time goes on. The war criminal's execution was unexpected to me to say the least! Interesting the artifact seems to be gaining some influence of the younger sibling, yeah this is shaping up nicely I think.



Stonking meaning good?   I like some eps and then the next is not half as good.  The trouble with this series is the bigger storyline of the season isnt as well done as the episodic eps like this last one.   They dont make me care about artifacts, the old mayor's plan for Defiance etc


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## Ice fyre (May 28, 2013)

Connavar said:


> Stonking meaning good?
> 
> Yes Connavar I do mean good, quite enjoying it.
> 
> The big background story is going to take a while to heat up I think, it might be a slow burner so am willing to give it a chance. I think its got a lot of potetial!


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## BetaWolf (May 31, 2013)

I am almost through with the long pilot on Hulu. Not so bad, really. Yes, ST:TNG had a really bad first season (the pilot was awful, and the first few episodes were gimmicky). 

I am watching most of my SFF TV on streaming services (Hulu and Netflix), so I have a different viewing experience than week by week. There are just some 'filler' episodes that have little to do with the main plot of the series; as a series develops these can be skipped without losing too much. It's just the nature of having to create thirteen to twenty hours of programming a year.

*THE REST OF THIS IS SPOILER!!*

Back to Defiance: I enjoyed the pilot. The opening scene with our two MCs singing Johnny Cash together was a nice touch IMHO, then on to their reason for being out there. The terraforming is a nice bit of worldbuilding, but heck most of the first hour was worldbuilding one way or another: the ark falling from the sky and then exploring it, and when do they arrive in town? On the holiday celebrating Human-Votan peace! What a coincidence.  I'm going to stay tuned and see where this goes.


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## clovis-man (Jul 9, 2013)

Not much discussion on this show in recent months. Now that the season finale is done, it seems there will be lots of new wrinkles next year. Just about everything has been left hanging. I just downloaded the Kindle Ebook. I'm not sure it adds much to the experience. I'll look at it more thoroughly later.


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## BetaWolf (Jul 10, 2013)

Saw the finale this morning on Hulu. Getting a bit tight over the Earth Republic. Not one cliffhanger but a whole bunch of little ones. House Tarr is not looking so good. And then there's Irisa. Looks like the writers finally remembered what was going on in the pilot.


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## clovis-man (Jul 10, 2013)

After a more thorough look at the *Defiance* ebook, I have to say that it would possibly appeal to the dedicated gamer, but not to those just watching the series (like me).


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## REBerg (Jul 12, 2013)

I've watched several episodes of _Defiance_, hoping the show would “grow on me,” but I had to give up the effort.

I just couldn't bring myself to like the characters or be drawn into their relationships. One alien species (how about the Castithans?), instead of a whole _Babylon 5_-like assemblage, would have been sufficient to provide plot conflict. The Irathients, particularly their outlandishly costumed “Spirit Riders,” are an insult to Native Americans.

Pairing the television series with a video game may, as the producers claim, add richness to the overall _Defiance_ experience. I am not a game-player, so I wouldn't know.

_Defiance_ may share a little DNA with _Battlestar Galactica_ in composer Bear McCreary and some of its production staff, but _Defiance_ is, by no stretch of the imagination, in the same league as _Battlestar Galactica_.


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## BetaWolf (Jul 26, 2013)

The season end worked for me, but a lot of the episodes were pure schtako. Every TV series has *filler* episodes that don't advance the overall plot all that much, but Defiance stuck out in this regard. 

I agree the what seven alien races is too much. I like Irisa and sort of care what happens to her and Nolan. But the Iraths don't work for me either: though I understand the need for a low-level threat just outside the town to have around for some minor plots. But they could just be part of one alien race, right?


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## biodroid (Jul 26, 2013)

Daisy Boo, you should enjoy it. A mix of Firefly, Alien Nation and a hint of Star Trek, well with multiple alien races living in harmony. The SFX is mediocre but I have seen worse on other shows like Terra Nova. We have only had the first 2 episodes here but the story picks up nicely from 2 looks like. I just loved the scene when the main character got "startled" at the poker table. You will see what i mean.


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## REBerg (Jul 30, 2013)

biodroid said:


> A mix of Firefly, Alien Nation and a hint of Star Trek, well with multiple alien races living in harmony



Maybe that's the reason I can't get into the series. By injecting elements from so many other popular scifi shows in an attempt to appeal to a broad base of fans, they are actually watering _Defiance _down into something that has no distinctive taste of its own.


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## BenSt (Sep 20, 2013)

I must say, this is by far one of my favourite series.  For being a SyFy television show, I was a little dubious, they have recently brought out some failed series, but it is incredible.  I think it helps that a lot of the same people involved with Battlestar Galactica and other popular series right now (like Game of Thrones) have come together on this and you can see the passion of the cast and crew alike.  I know it's filmed in Toronto here, but not sure whereabouts, it must be filmed somewhere out in the boonies.  You occasionally see some of the actors downtown and they are all very cordial and welcoming.  It is nice to see that they chose some lesser known or newbie actors to fill the roles.  overall, great show and I look forward to the series premiere.


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## quantumtheif (Sep 20, 2013)

*Defiance *is a show that is finally not cut from the mold. *Defiance* is a show that does a little world building, has an interesting alien invasion story(not some DESTROY ALL HUMANS story that is constantly seen in alien invasion stories), and has bright an interesting characters. 

I think if this show picks up next season it might gain its own culture. The show already had online followers before syfy put it on screen. I have high hope for *Defiance*.


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## Dr Zoidberg (Sep 20, 2013)

We've enjoyed it so far. It's about the closest we have to a "spaceships and aliens" show at the mo, so I'm looking forward to the next season and seeing where they take things.


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## markpud (Aug 29, 2014)

So what do people think of the season 2 finale?


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## clovis-man (Aug 29, 2014)

markpud said:


> So what do people think of the season 2 finale?


 
I thought it was fine, considering that closure of some issues seems to have occurred with the inevitable "cliff-hanger" parts still there to keep us looking ahead to next year.


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## markpud (Aug 31, 2014)

I do find the show engaging almost despite itself.. the Stama's are great characters that do a decent job of portraying an alien culture, albeit one not too dissimilar to our own.

My main issue with the 2 part finale was the terrible CGI ...



Spoiler



during the destruction of New York.. the collapsing buildings and fleeing onlookers were out of a 90s computer game!



I've not played the Defiance game but perhaps that stuff was lifted straight from that?


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## BAYLOR (Sep 1, 2014)

As season finales go , I was impressed, I hope we get a 3rd season.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 2, 2014)

I have a question for Defiance folks. I watched the first season but have not seen anything since - if I start watching it again at the start of the third (if there is one), will I be utterly confused and annoyed?


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## BAYLOR (Sep 2, 2014)

Michael Colton said:


> I have a question for Defiance folks. I watched the first season but have not seen anything since - if I start watching it again at the start of the third (if there is one), will I be utterly confused and annoyed?



I would recommend seeing the first season first.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 2, 2014)

BAYLOR said:


> I would recommend seeing the first season first.



It is the second I have not seen. I saw all of the first.


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## BAYLOR (Sep 2, 2014)

Michael Colton said:


> It is the second I have not seen. I saw all of the first.



Opps, sorry. Nevermind


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## clovis-man (Sep 2, 2014)

Michael Colton said:


> It is the second I have not seen. I saw all of the first.


 
If that's the case for you, I would recommend seeing the second season before the third one comes out. Otherwise it could be a tad confusing.


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## Michael Colton (Sep 2, 2014)

clovis-man said:


> If that's the case for you, I would recommend seeing the second season before the third one comes out. Otherwise it could be a tad confusing.



Alright, thank you. I will keep an eye out for it being on sale when it is released on DVD.


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## markpud (Sep 2, 2014)

you might be able to get away with reading up on the season highlights but I'd also recommend watching it. It was a pretty good season which built to some big moments for the characters and the wider world-building..


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## Warren_Paul (Jun 15, 2015)

Big bump. Guess the show isn't very popular around here? Or perhaps most people watching the UK premiere on the 25th? 

But just watched the season 3 premiere and wow. wow. They wanted to start with a bang, and they sure did that.



Spoiler



I think the writers have been watching a little too much Game of Thrones. Killing off just about the entire McCauley family in one episode... just wow. And how they went about it... just wow. Not what I'd expect from Defiance at all. I wonder if they are trying to shock the show into higher ratings and popularity?


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## Perpetual Man (Jun 15, 2015)

Warren_Paul said:


> Big bump. Guess the show isn't very popular around here? Or perhaps most people watching the UK premiere on the 25th?
> 
> But just watched the season 3 premiere and wow. wow. They wanted to start with a bang, and they sure did that.
> 
> ...



I haven't finished season 2 yet, did not realise how far behind I was.


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## Warren_Paul (Jun 15, 2015)

Just don't click on the spoiler tab then, whatever you do!


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## Perpetual Man (Jun 15, 2015)

I managed to resist - just. I think we have four episodes to go, and managing one a day so we might even get to season 3 soon, I think it starts on the 23rd June over here


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## BAYLOR (Jun 16, 2015)

Warren_Paul said:


> Big bump. Guess the show isn't very popular around here? Or perhaps most people watching the UK premiere on the 25th?
> 
> But just watched the season 3 premiere and wow. wow. They wanted to start with a bang, and they sure did that.
> 
> ...



It was an excellent premier.


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## clovis-man (Jun 16, 2015)

Warren_Paul said:


> Big bump. Guess the show isn't very popular around here? Or perhaps most people watching the UK premiere on the 25th?
> 
> But just watched the season 3 premiere and wow. wow. They wanted to start with a bang, and they sure did that.
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Well, they certainly eliminated most of the "non-essential personnel". Maybe Graham Greene's contract was expiring. I predict a similar fate for Linda Hamilton in the near future. Some major complications with the appearance of the Omecs. Perhaps the writers were tired of the frontier town intrigue scenarios and wanted to get on to a more global menace. At any rate, it has my attention, as grim and gritty as the beginning of the new season was.


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## clovis-man (Jun 22, 2015)

Okay, the latest episode was worthwhile if for nothing else than Linda Hamilton's *Terminator* line.


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## Warren_Paul (Jul 26, 2015)

While Defiance hasn't been the best show on TV, I have to admit, I thought episode 3.08 was pretty damn good. Datak is the man. One of Defiance's finest moments, imo.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 15, 2015)

Warren_Paul said:


> While Defiance hasn't been the best show on TV, I have to admit, I thought episode 3.08 was pretty damn good. Datak is the man. One of Defiance's finest moments, imo.



Ive been impressed with season 3 so far. The show should score a 4th season and hopefully more.


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## Warren_Paul (Aug 29, 2015)

Well that's it folks... all these shows coming to an end. Sad days. Was the strongest season so far too.

Considering the season finale, it would be interesting to see where the show goes in a fourth season. If a 4th happens, I'm unfortunately expecting a huge time jump.

But to be honest, if that was it, no more episodes, I would be happy with the way it ended.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 29, 2015)

Warren_Paul said:


> Well that's it folks... all these shows coming to an end. Sad days. Was the strongest season so far too.
> 
> Considering the season finale, it would be interesting to see where the show goes in a fourth season. If a 4th happens, I'm unfortunately expecting a huge time jump.
> 
> But to be honest, if that was it, no more episodes, I would be happy with the way it ended.




Terrific finale .


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## clovis-man (Aug 30, 2015)

Well it seems we now have a tabula rasa. Free reign for the shows creators to move in any direction they choose. Or none at all, depending on network whims.


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## BenSt (Nov 11, 2015)

Sadly, Defiance has been officially cancelled


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## Droflet (Nov 11, 2015)

I'm not surprised. I know many of you are, were, fans but I stopped watching after season one. 

Ben, where have you been hiding? Welcome back.


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