# A question about salty sea breezes



## Brian G Turner (Jul 5, 2015)

Something I often come across in fiction is that sea air smells "salty".

I live about a quarter of a mile from the sea, and walk the dogs on it most days. And this description perplexes me.

The sea does indeed have a smell - but at the moment I struggle to define it as "salty".

Additionally, if salt really were escaping to the air in sufficient quantities to be "smelled", then wouldn't this result in everything within range of a sea breeze becoming encrusted with at least a fine crust of salt - especially nearest the sea? I don't observe this at all.

So, are sea breezes more a literary device for describing the smell of the sea, rather than an exact description? Or is there literally salt on the air by the sea?


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 5, 2015)

Perhaps Brian because you live so close to the sea you no longer recognise it as different?

When it comes to eating salt I know that the human body adapts to it - i.e. the initial buzz that salt gives you quickly disappears and you need to add more and more salt to get that taste back. Perhaps living close to the sea you no longer register it as a smell using the same mechanism, just as in London I barely notice car and lorry exhaust smells! 

As a confirmed land-locked landlubber who rarely gets to the coast I do remember a distinct 'saltiness' that I can smell when I first arrive at coasts. However perhaps I am mistaken and I am mixing it up with rotting seaweed and various other seaside things, I fully admit. see: http://www.popsci.com/seasmells.

I do think think though that these smells, which are nothing to do with salt water, but the by-products of all the things that are happening in it are justifiably briny to my nose. Perhaps also having swam in the sea a few times and received a few mouthfuls of it, that has just backed up my impression of the taste of the 'salty sea breeze'!


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## Dave (Jul 5, 2015)

Venusian Broon said:


> I do remember a distinct 'saltiness' that I can smell when I first arrive at coasts. However perhaps I am mistaken and I am mixing it up with rotting seaweed and various other seaside things, I fully admit. see: http://www.popsci.com/seasmells.


 That is exactly what that smell is, and I'm dubious that it has any medicinal benefits. The other thing people say is to "smell the Ozone." Ozone is higher at the seaside then elsewhere (and isn't bad for you, except when it reacts with car exhaust fumes in cities to form smog) I'm just not so sure that it is as good for you as the Victorians believed and I'm not sure you can smell it either. Salt particles are carried on the wind, but again I'm not sure whether humans have sufficient olfactory sense to detect them. Someone with a good nose possibly can. I expect animals can too, but the overwhelming smell will be the rotting seaweed and other smells in the previous link. At least the air blown in from the sea doesn't have the pollution from cities, and is clean in that respect, and is likely to be low in pollen from flowering plants.


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## Jo Zebedee (Jul 5, 2015)

Seaweedy. Briny. I use briny rather than salty, mostly, because salt and brine smell different (because of the seaweedy ness )


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 5, 2015)

Seaweed is strongest smell. There is only really a briny salty smell (really from the spray) when there is a storm or strong wind. I think you can only smell salt (really taste) when you are getting wet from the sea spray.

I know what Ozone is like from testing parts with EHT up to 50K volts, working on old CRT TVs and older laser printers. It's very distinctive. I don't think I've ever smelled it at the seaside.


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 5, 2015)

Dave said:


> That is exactly what that smell is, and I'm dubious that it has any medicinal benefits. The other thing people say is to "smell the Ozone." Ozone is higher at the seaside then elsewhere (and isn't bad for you, except when it reacts with car exhaust fumes in cities to form smog)



Good because I think my printer, sitting right next to me at head height, produces oodles of the stuff on a big run. 

(Although perhaps it is not ozone at all, but some other by-product of the printing process! <_Does a quick google>_ oh no I'm correct! laser printing does produce ozone and nitrogen oxides, like a tiny little lightning strike. )


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## millymollymo (Jul 5, 2015)

Dave said:


> That is exactly what that smell is, and I'm dubious that it has any medicinal benefits. The other thing people say is to "smell the Ozone." Ozone is higher at the seaside then elsewhere (and isn't bad for you, except when it reacts with car exhaust fumes in cities to form smog) I'm just not so sure that it is as good for you as the Victorians believed and I'm not sure you can smell it either. Salt particles are carried on the wind, but again I'm not sure whether humans have sufficient olfactory sense to detect them. Someone with a good nose possibly can. I expect animals can too, but the overwhelming smell will be the rotting seaweed and other smells in the previous link. At least the air blown in from the sea doesn't have the pollution from cities, and is clean in that respect, and is likely to be low in pollen from flowering plants.



Depending on what side of the world you were on, or in my case island, the sea breeze was 'fresher' and less polluted with chimney fumes, and various chemicals there in, so retiring to the coast was good for the lungs in that respect. Of course 'consumption' being caused by bacteria, a trip to the seaside wasn't enough. Another vote for briny here. Not salty at all, but, yes, there is a definable difference between city and coastal, where I am.


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## HareBrain (Jul 5, 2015)

Interesting. I was thinking the same thing just the other week, but then forgot about it, so it's nice to have it answered.

I think when writers write that the sea smells salty, they just mean it smells like the sea, which they've always been told smells salty.


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## Mirannan (Jul 6, 2015)

Venusian Broon said:


> Good because I think my printer, sitting right next to me at head height, produces oodles of the stuff on a big run.
> 
> (Although perhaps it is not ozone at all, but some other by-product of the printing process! <_Does a quick google>_ oh no I'm correct! laser printing does produce ozone and nitrogen oxides, like a tiny little lightning strike. )



Indeed it does, but I suspect the smell of a laser printer or photocopier has a lot more to do with various exotic organic molecules evaporating from hot toner. Ozone doesn't smell much like one of them operating; its smell is actually quite close to that of chlorine. To me, anyway.


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## TheDustyZebra (Jul 6, 2015)

I would call it a fishy smell, not a salty smell.

I don't recall ever smelling ozone at the ocean, either. We had a humidifier/purifier when I was a kid, and it would zap things that it filtered out of the air with some sort of ozone unit, which you could then smell, so I know what ozone smells like, too. (Don't ask me what this thing was -- I've never seen another one, anywhere. Trust us to have the weird thing.)


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## Venusian Broon (Jul 6, 2015)

TheDustyZebra said:


> I would call it a fishy smell, not a salty smell.
> 
> I don't recall ever smelling ozone at the ocean, either. We had a humidifier/purifier when I was a kid, and it would zap things that it filtered out of the air with some sort of ozone unit, which you could then smell, so I know what ozone smells like, too. (Don't ask me what this thing was -- I've never seen another one, anywhere. Trust us to have the weird thing.)



ooh I had one of 'em as a kid! Stupid little triangular thing that collected dust in a small circle around it.

Had no effect on my allergies, which was why we tried it. But then I was quite a fussy eater as a child and would have baulked at what I found was the correct solution to solving my allergy problem (eat veggies).

@Mirannan - yes that's the smell I was thinking about - bringing it back to OT...sort of - like just above a municipal swimming pool.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 6, 2015)

Venusian Broon said:


> eat veggies


Yes. I'd only eat vegetarian animals not meat eating ones.


Mirannan said:


> I suspect the smell of a laser printer or photocopier has a lot more to do with various exotic organic molecules evaporating from hot toner.


Basically toner is a mix of soot, hot melt glue and a trace of something else. Only the really old photocopiers and laser printers*  have much Ozone.

(*Some printers use an array of LEDs instead of a laser. In both cases a very high voltage corona wire charges the photo drum. Light makes the drum conductive and thus leaks charge away. The toner powder is attracted to dark areas and not conductive area. The drum is discharged on to the paper, then a hot teflon coated roller melts the toner (usually has an lamp like quartz electric grill lamp in it).  The corona wire used to be much higher voltage and also create much more ozone. There is a built in brush in the toner cartridge to clean the wire which should be done periodically to keep image quality good. It's basically a slow mechanical TV).


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## Vladd67 (Jul 6, 2015)

Venusian Broon said:


> ooh I had one of 'em as a kid! Stupid little triangular thing that collected dust in a small circle around it.
> 
> Had no effect on my allergies, which was why we tried it. But then I was quite a fussy eater as a child and would have baulked at what I found was the correct solution to solving my allergy problem (eat veggies).
> 
> @Mirannan - yes that's the smell I was thinking about - bringing it back to OT...sort of - like just above a municipal swimming pool.


The little triangle thing you had that attracted dust would have been an ioniser. A friend of mine had one as both him and his wife smoked, they thought it might help clean the air in their living room. When they took it off the mantlepiece to clean they were horrified to find a black sticky mess on the wall behind it. This may have led them to give up.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 6, 2015)

A photo of their lungs vs someone non-smoker in non-smoking environment would have been scary too.

Long ago teachers could smoke in class. Most of the computer failures were due to tar etc into the disk drives or card slots.


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## Stephen Palmer (Jul 6, 2015)

This may interest you all...


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## Ray McCarthy (Jul 6, 2015)

It's probably dimethyl sulphide and break down chemicals rather than Ozone that is the smell.


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## BigBadBob141 (Jul 6, 2015)

According to QI the so called Ozone smell at the seaside is caused by decaying sea weed.
Ozone smells like Geraniums, I have a poor sense of smell but you do get a whiff of something like that with arc welders.
It's just as well as Ozone is very un-healthy to breath, it's ionized Oxygen which attacks organic matter, so it's no good for your lungs.


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## Brian G Turner (Dec 16, 2019)

Hmm, so all this time I've been thinking that the "salty" sea air smell is actually the smell of seaweed. However, as I slowly work through an Earth Sciences textbook, I've just come across the statement that "sea salts from breaking waves" can form aerosols in the local air. 

I guess it's just not a big enough effect to encrust everything in visible crystals.


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## Foxbat (Dec 16, 2019)

I love the smell of the sea. I've  lived my whole life next to it and it's simply wonderful. I don't care if it's only rotting seaweed or whatever.
I never feel home until the stench hits me


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## Finch (Dec 16, 2019)

I live by the sea . I'm sure you do get accustomed to local smells , but sometimes you get that sea smell . It is something to with the climatic conditions . For  years, after every storm, large quantities of kelp would end up on the beach .   It would rot and attract swarms of tiny black flies . I have not seen it in large quantities for years . It is a mystery why the kelp  has died out?


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## RJM Corbet (Dec 16, 2019)

Brian G Turner said:


> I guess it's just not a big enough effect to encrust everything in visible crystals.


Well I believe everything we smell is in fact a _molecular_ aerosol of that thing we smell. Pheromones, etc?


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## Venusian Broon (Dec 16, 2019)

Brian G Turner said:


> Hmm, so all this time I've been thinking that the "salty" sea air smell is actually the smell of seaweed. However, as I slowly work through an Earth Sciences textbook, I've just come across the statement that "sea salts from breaking waves" can form aerosols in the local air.
> 
> I guess it's just not a big enough effect to encrust everything in visible crystals.



Such tiny crystals probably land on the coastline, but given that the UK tends to be quite wet, there isn't going to be much hope for them to stay put long enough to cause visible encrustations!

From memory I believe I've read that sea salt areosols can be important for global cloud formation - as tiny salt particles that get whipped up into the upper layers of the atmosphere from them, form part of the basis for condensation seeds for ice particles that make up clouds.


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## -K2- (Dec 16, 2019)

Venusian Broon said:


> From memory I believe I've read that sea salt areosols can be important for global cloud formation - as tiny salt particles that get whipped up into the upper layers of the atmosphere from them, form part of the basis for condensation seeds for ice particles that make up clouds.



Marine Cloud Brightening:








						Marine cloud brightening - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				








						MCB Project – MCB Project
					






					mcbproject.org
				





			Changing the Reflectivity of Clouds to Reduce Global Warming
		














Unfortunately, 'I believe' that only addresses a symptom of GW, not the problem which is the opposite of natural atmospheric carbon stripping and storage (IOW, carbon extraction and redistribution).


K2


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## tinkerdan (Dec 16, 2019)

Here is hp's notes on the subject.


			https://www.ucop.edu/risk-services/_files/bsas/safetymeetings/ozonefrprinters.pdf
		

That said I have one of the ones that does not produce ozone--next to my office at work.
I have noticed when it is running--it does give off a smell I would associate with ozone from a light rain on a warm day.
That said:
I also noticed that when I take a paper towel and rub it across the burner on my coffee maker to sop up the coffee that has dropped on the hot plate, I get a very similar smell to the smell from the printer.
This might indicate that its the warm paper and the bit of moisture in the paper itself that is creating this smell--possible along with the electronics warming up in the printer.

Also to run with those who have mentioned bleach; the paper is likely bleached because it is a high whiteness rating.

However:








						Sea spray - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



It had always seemed to me that the salt smell was something in relationship to sailors; one would think that the sailors would be most prone to this since they are subject to salt spray especially on open decks. As to the air from spray containing salt. Some of our equipment--from work--ends up in shipment across the ocean and though we have a splash resistant seal around the electronics, we do see corrosion from the salt spray. That is probably more evident than any coating of salt; however on some I have found the affects of salt coating the aluminum, making it easier to assess the possibility of having to check the electronics inside for corrosion.


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