# SciFi Recommendations?



## Devil's Advocate (Apr 25, 2010)

Hi, guys.

So, I've really gotten into Fantasy over the last couple of years, and have been reading in the genre almost exclusively since. It just struck me the other day, though, that I've never really read a proper Science Fiction novel.

I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for some good SciFi books worth checking out? Keep in mind that being a newcomer to the genre, I don't think I'm up to the task of reading 'hard' SciFi; and I don't know what this 'space opera' is, but if it is what it sounds like*, then I'm not interested. And, of course, I am already aware of classics like _Dune_ and _Nineteen Eighty-Four_** and the novel _Blade Runner_*** is based on.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.


* - I'm thinking _The Bold & The Beautiful_ in 2192 A.D.
** - Though I haven't read them, yet.
*** - _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_, I believe?


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## Rodders (Apr 25, 2010)

Iain M. Bank's Culture novels are a must. Start with the Player of Games, Consider Phlebas or Excession are the easiest to get.

Peter F. Hamilton's Nights Dawn trilogy are a little on the large side, but quite enjoyable (although i did prefere his later novels.) 

Alastair Reynold's Revelation Space series are superb IMO. 

Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon is a great read too. 

I'd also recommend Titanicus by Dan Abnett. OK, it's based on Warhammer 40K, but it's an action packed book and i thought that it was pretty well written.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 25, 2010)

See? This is how little I know of SciFi: other than Banks, I haven't heard of any of these authors. 

Thanks for the suggestions, Rodders. I'll look into them and gauge if they're to my tastes.


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## Rodders (Apr 25, 2010)

Cool, let us know how you get on.


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## kurzon (Apr 26, 2010)

Harry Harrison's Deathworld books.
Ben Bova's "The Duelling Machine".
Andre Norton's "Catseye".
Neil Stephenson's "The Diamond Age".
Lots of Melissa Scott novels. Try "Trouble and her Friends" or "Mighty Good Road". Fantastic writer.

It really depends on what you're reading science fiction for. Do you like Heinlein's juveniles? If you're not interested in hard science or space opera, you're ruling an awful lot of sf out. Stars Wars is considered space opera, for instance - you might think of it as space adventure when people talk about space opera. [Space opera is definitely not the Bold and the Beautiful.]


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## thepaladin (Apr 26, 2010)

What "is" your impression of "what space opera is"? I mean I'm not sure what to recommend as I'm not really sure what you're looking for. Space Opera usually means an adventure in space with less than scrupulous attention to scientific detail (speed of light travel is assumed without worrying how it works...or the entire problem of languages isn't too worrisome...heroics can abound etc.). It's "informal" and definitely not hard science fiction as "horse opera" isn't real history.... Can you give an idea of what kind of "story" are you looking for so we can have a better idea of what to recommend?


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## j d worthington (Apr 26, 2010)

D.A.: Anent "Space Opera":

Space opera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As noted in the article, it can have both a positive and negative connotation; the latter represented by poor writing, flat characterization, and simplistic plots and ideas, while the former is represented by intelligent (if not always scientifically accurate) adventures set in space, and would include quite a wide variety of tales, from E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman series to several of Asimov's tales (*The Stars, Like Dust--*, for example) to some of the most noted recent sf novels out there, space opera having made a _very_ worthy comeback....

As for other recommendations:

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/6329-sci-fi-recommendations-for-the-unenlightened.html

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/36692-essential-anthologies.html

I do tend to suggest anthologies for newbies to any field, as it is a great way to find writers you are interested in... then you can go look up other works they've written....


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 26, 2010)

First off, thanks for your replies. 

I guess I had the wrong impression of Space Opera. I kind of went with the stereotype in my head, as it seemed to me that Space Opera was a play on the genre of Soap Opera (like the cheesy ones on TV), which is why I said I wasn't interested. As kurzon pointed out, Space Opera is not B&B, so I guess that's fine.

kurzon - Thanks for the recommendations. I'm not familiar with Heinlein's work, so I can't say anything about that. If by juvenile you meant 'for kids' (unless I'm once again stereotyping the definition), then no, I wouldn't want to read that. I guess thinking of Space Opera as Space Adventure, as you recommend, helps.

paladin - I trust now you know what I thought Space Opera was (and yes, clearly I was wrong). I think from what you describe, it sounds like something I _would_ be interested in reading. By the way, I have never heard of "horse opera"*. Wikipedia is quite brief and uninformative on that.

J.D. - I actually had looked it up on Wiki, too, and was put off by the first line: "...a subgenre of speculative fiction or science fiction that emphasizes romantic, often melodramatic adventure...". That seemed to confirm my 'Bold & the Beautiful in space' impression. It was stupid of me not to have read on. Thanks for the links; they're quite exhaustive! I'm not sure the anthologies will work for me, though. Not likely I will find those here.


* - This time, I will _not_ go with my mental image of three equestrian tenors...


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## kurzon (Apr 26, 2010)

Heinlein's juveniles would probably be intended for a late teen audience.  They're for the most part good reads (I certainly prefer them to Heinlein's other work).  Of Heinlein (and it's hard to go past him as a good place to start for classic sf), I'd recommend:

- Space Cadet
- Citizen of the Galaxy
- Starship Troopers
- Have Spacesuit, Will Travel

If the idea of space adventure attracts you, these probably will.  If you want to read something a trifle more recent which is firmly labelled "space opera" try the Mageworlds series by Debra Doyle and James MacDonald.

Science fiction is _such_ a broad genre.  The difference between, say, Octavia Butler and Harry Harrison...


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## Rodders (Apr 26, 2010)

I'd also recommend The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy too.


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## thepaladin (Apr 26, 2010)

Yes Heinlein's so called juvenile novels are geared to t6eens and mostly are quite good adventure stories. A lot of us cut our "science fiction teeth" on them...Tunnel in the Sky and The Door into Summer along with Starship Troopers are some of my personal favorites. E. E. "Doc" Smith has already been mentioned to. There's William C. Dietz and John Ringo do mostly military science fiction.There's Gordan R. Dickson's Dorsi (and other novels). 

Lots more.... 

By the way, "horse opera" simply refers to westerns, usually used in relation to TV and movies.


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## j d worthington (Apr 26, 2010)

kurzon said:


> Science fiction is _such_ a broad genre. The difference between, say, Octavia Butler and Harry Harrison...


 
Or Joanna Russ and Robert A. Heinlein, or James Tiptree, Jr. and "Doc" Smith....

While not all of Heinlein's juveniles are of the same quality (the earliest, *Rocket Ship Galileo*, is something he remained somewhat dissatisfied with, as I recall), as a series, they do form a wonderful achievement and exploration of various themes, often expanded on in later volumes in the series. These were (in order):

*Rocket Ship Galileo*
*Space Cadet*
*Red Planet*
*Farmer in the Sky*
*Between Planets*
*The Rolling Stones*
*Starman Jones*
*The Star Beast*
*Tunnel in the Sky*
*Time for the Stars*
*Citizen of the Galaxy*
*Have Space Suit -- Will Travel*

and, originally (though rejected by Scribners' for the juvenile line):

*Starship Troopers*

I would also suggest some of the New Wave work of the 1960s-1970s. While, again, it is quite variable, there is a substantial body of fine work there as well, by such writers as J. G. Ballard, Norman Spinrad, Michael Moorcock, Brian W. Aldiss, Pamela A. Zoline, Joanna Russ, Christopher Priest, Harlan Ellison, Michael Butterworth, Samuel R. Delaney, James Tiptree, Jr. (Alice Sheldon), Ursula K. Le Guin....

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/44891-new-wave-sf.html


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## chrispenycate (Apr 26, 2010)

Go on, give me a clue; what fantasy do you enjoy? It's that much easier to set you up with an S.F. match. Or start you of on somebody who writes both, and gently wean you across the barrier. 

The important thing is to start; we can get the classics into you when you are duly infected.

Oh, of course I'd like you to read Bujold's "Shards of honor"; but perhaps ease you in through one of her fantasy works, so the writing style doesn't disturb, you are only faced by these strange things; ideas.

Hi, Kurson; I didn't know anyone else read Melissa Scott. How about starting him off on Silence Leigh, and five twelfths of Heaven? He'd never work out if it was SF or fantasy.

Or get your first hit of Heinlein through "Magic, Inc.", or "Glory Road", Your Poul Anderson from "The Merman's children" or… Lots of great SF Authors have dabbled in fantasy.

And "hard doesn't have to be difficult; OK, I've the correct education for it, but just because the science is right in an Arthur C. Clarke or a Niven it doesn't make the story unreadable, and the vision can be cosmic.

I'd avoid the "Dune" and Peter Hamilton epics at first, not because they are not good, but they give you so much to chew on that if you don't like the taste the temptation to spit it out is severe. A shorter Herbert, or a collection of his short stories is less of a risk. 

Do you read on the computer? An economic solution to getting hold of trial reads (if, as I suspect, your access to public libraries is somewhat restricted, and the selection in your local book shop is not awe-inspiring either, leading to ordering being your only solution. Yes, I know the problem.) is to download from the Baen free library. Then, if you don't like something, you don't feel cheated, and if you do you can settle down to trying to get hold of it in real dead tree form.


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## kurzon (Apr 27, 2010)

chrispenycate said:


> Hi, Kurson; I didn't know anyone else read Melissa Scott. How about starting him off on Silence Leigh, and five twelfths of Heaven? He'd never work out if it was SF or fantasy.


 
More people should read Melissa Scott.


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## jojajihisc (Apr 27, 2010)

j. d. worthington said:


> http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/36692-essential-anthologies.html
> 
> I do tend to suggest anthologies for newbies to any field, as it is a great way to find writers you are interested in... then you can go look up other works they've written....



Definitely. A single anthology gives you a sample of maybe twenty or thirty authors. I've gotten into short stories a lot in the last couple years and it usually leads me to buying novels from the authors I discover in this way.

The Year's Best Science Fiction is a good place to start.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2010)

Wow! That's a hell of a lot of suggestions. You guys are really eager to bring me over to the dark side... Unlike young Luke, I shall not resist.

Chris,
Your estimation about the variety of books available here is absolutely on the mark. You're not secretly from the Middle (of the?) East, are you?

So what fantasy do I enjoy? Hmmm... I certainly haven't read as many as some of you, but from what I have read, I generally lean towards Epic Fantasy. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't think I've read anything that _isn't_ Epic Fantasy*. Here's a brief recap:

I love _The Lord of the Rings_, although it seems to me that perhaps I am less in love with the actual books, and more with the world.

I like Jordan's _Wheel of Time_, and my feelings about it (both good and bad) are more or less in line with everyone else who's read them.

I liked Stephen King's _The Dark Tower_, but felt underwhelmed by the last three books. 

_The First Law_ by Joe Abercrombie is very good, but perhaps a little inconsistent. Maybe it's just me, but Logen in Book 1 seemed slightly different from Logen in Book 2. (When did he become a bumbling, stumbling fool?)

I even enjoyed Harry Potter (but despise the movies).

I have just started reading China Mieville's _The Scar_, which is probably the most "this ain't like Lord of the Rings" of the books I've read. In fact, I guess it's not really even fantasy, coming under the rather ludicrous sounding genre of 'New Weird'.


* - I know, I really need to branch out. Hence, therefore, thence my interest in SciFi.


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## iansales (Apr 27, 2010)

When I lived in Abu Dhabi, I bought most of my books from Amazon. I'm not sure if Dubai is still as fierce at checking the mail as it used to be, but I never had any problems in Abu Dhabi. 

There were a couple of good shops in AD that sold remaindered books - although I don't know of any in Dubai. My most amazing find was a signed first edition of Bruce Sterling's *Heavy Weather* in Al-Mutanabbi bookshop..


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 27, 2010)

You lived in Abu Dhabi? Cool! How long ago was this?

The thing is, I know people who have ordered books from Amazon, and got them, no problem. But then, I also know people (in some cases, the same people) who ordered books that didn't make it to them, for no apparent reason.

It seems like a hit-and-miss kind of thing. I know if I ordered some books, and didn't get them, I would be royally pissed.

There is Al-Mutanabbi in Dubai, too, but they seem to have more on the side of educational/information books.


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## iansales (Apr 27, 2010)

I was in Abu Dhabi from 1994 to 2002, although I actually grew up in the Gulf.

Yes, Al-Mutanabbi is mostly educational books, but the Abu Dhabi shop had an upstairs that had loads of remaindered fiction. Some of it looked like it had been there years.

Is there still a Magrudy's in Dubai? Last time I was there, it was in Deira City Centre. There was another book shop in the City Centre, but I can't remember what it was called. Lals also sold books. As did Carrefour.


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 28, 2010)

So have you come back to visit since 2002? Both the Emirates (particularly Dubai) have changed quite radically over the course of the last decade.

Magrudy's is still around; in fact, they've grown since then. The City Centre one is still there, but it's 'flagship' status has been usurped by the branch in the mall in Dubai Festival City*. I remember the other bookshop in CC; I think it might have been Book Corner, or something like that. In any case, that closed a long time ago.

My problem isn't lack of bookstores. There are quite a few around. The problem is that you don't always find the books you're looking for there, particularly if they're not mainstream, and are a few years old.

My best bet is probably this store called Kinokuniya**. They have a huge bookstore in Dubai Mall*** and have a sizeable SFF section. Most of the fantasy books I have, I bought from there. I think I'll go there one of these days and check it out.

Okay, so to bring this back full circle to the recommendations; there are too many! Let's trim it down a little. What would you guys say should be my, let's say, first 3 SF purchases? The three books that a Sci-Fi virgin like myself would enjoy, and would whet**** my appetite for the genre?

Or should I just do the obvious thing and start with _Dune_ and _1984_?


*  That didn't exist when you were around.
**  A branch of some big bookstore chain from Singapore.
***  This huge monstrosity wasn't around in your day, either.
****  No pun intended.


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## j d worthington (Apr 28, 2010)

Fond as I am of *Dune*, and as much as I feel it is one of the classics of the field, I would _not_ recommend it to a newbie as a first novel... though, with some of its fantastic elements, given your taste for fantasy, it might well work. (Now, how's _that_ for a contradictory message?)

Hmmm... narrowing it down to three.... Ideally, then, it should be something from the "Golden Age", something from a mid-period (New Wave or Cyberpunk, perhaps), and something contemporary, to give you a taste of at least one example of each. I'd still vote for anthologies, so that you get a wider representation -- say, *The Science Fiction Hall of Fame* (vol. 1 -- edited by Robert Silverberg -- would be a good choice), something like *Dangerous Visions* (ed. by Harlan Ellison) or *The Arbor House Treasury of Modern Science Fiction* (ed. by Martin H. Greenberg and Robert Silverberg), and *The Space Opera Renaissance* (ed. by David G. Hartwell and Kathryn Cramer), perhaps, for the three periods.

But, if you want to go strictly with novels (and keep in mind that sf has, through much of its history, been at least as much or more a short-story and novella form as one relying on novels), then I think I'd personally suggest *Flowers for Algernon*, by Daniel Keyes, *The Crystal World*, by J. G. Ballard, and (possibly) *Blood*, by Michael Moorcock (for more human-centered sf) or *Rendezvous with Rama* by Arthur C. Clarke. The problem is, sf is such a wide variety of different types of stories, that narrowing it down this way is darned near impossible.....


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 28, 2010)

I think I see what you're saying, J.D. LotR is a fantasy classic, but I'm not sure if I would recommend it to a newbie. Many seem to find it boring and/or slow-paced.

Anthologies sound like a good idea, but as I said, I'm guessing they'll be hard to find here. I haven't checked, but I get the feeling that the bookstores here are more likely to have novels than anthologies. I'll note down your suggestions, though, and give it a shot.

Would it be easier if we go by sub-genre? So instead of 3 SF books, how about 1 space opera, 1 hard SF, and 1 whatever-other-subgenre? Maybe that way, I'll at least get an idea about what type of SF books I would like. So if I enjoy, say, space opera, but not hard SF, then I know that from now on I'll concentrate more on the former, in the same way that most of my fantasy interests lie in epic/high fantasy...


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## iansales (Apr 28, 2010)

I would suggest *The New Space Opera* or *The New Space Opera 2*, a pair of recent anthologies of, er, space opera, edited by Gardner Dozois & Jonathan Strahan. Should give you a good taste of the state of the genre.

Also worth trying is Alastair Reynolds - perhaps not his latest, *Terminal World*, which is steampunk-ish - but perhaps *The Prefect* or *Pushing Ice*.

And for something different, neither space opera nor hard sf - *Kéthani* by Eric Brown, or *Transition* by Iain (M) Banks.

All are recent books, no more than a few years old, and all are still in print and should be easy enough to find - even in Dubai.


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## j d worthington (Apr 28, 2010)

Devil's Advocate said:


> Would it be easier if we go by sub-genre? So instead of 3 SF books, how about 1 space opera, 1 hard SF, and 1 whatever-other-subgenre? Maybe that way, I'll at least get an idea about what type of SF books I would like. So if I enjoy, say, space opera, but not hard SF, then I know that from now on I'll concentrate more on the former, in the same way that most of my fantasy interests lie in epic/high fantasy...


 
Well, the problem with that, as I've indicated before, is not only the range of different sub-genres within sf (a link indicating those will be below) but even the range within, say, "hard sf", which can be quite wide... from things such as the stories of George O. Smith to those of Arthur C. Clarke or Larry Niven, to most of Isaac Asimov, to Robert A. Heinlein (again, most of), to.... New Wave? Well, you have your choice of such things as John Brunner's *Stand on Zanzibar*, Samuel R. Delaney's *Dhalgren*, J. G. Ballard's work (or at least the bulk of it), Michael Moorcock's *Behold the Man*, *Breakfast in the Ruins*, the Cornelius stories, etc., Norman Spinrad's *Bug Jack Barron*, Richard A. Lupoff's *Space War Blues*, the bulk of Harlan Ellison's work from ca. 1965 to the mid-1980s, Joanna Russ's *The Female Man* or James Tiptree, Jr.'s *Her Smoke Rose Up Forever,* Kate Wilhelm's *Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang,* Ursula K. LeGuin's *The Dispossessed *or* The Lathe of Heaven*.... and so on. And it's pretty much that way for all the different sub-genres of sf. It's a maverick crowd, by and large; and while there are trends, there are almost as many exceptions (sometimes more) as there are followers of that trend.

List of science fiction genres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SF has frequently been called "the literature of ideas" and, while that is sometimes a grandiose claim not met, not infrequently it is right on the money....


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## kurzon (Apr 28, 2010)

One of the Heinlein juveniles could cover classic sf and would be a nice short read.

"The Diamond Age" by Stephenson would cover cyberpunk (or nanotech in a near future world anyway) (Snowcrash by Stephenson might be a better bet for cyberpunk).

And, yeah, one of the anthologies recommended above.

Incidentally, rather than relying on the current content of your local stores, why not try Free delivery worldwide on all books from The Book Depository?


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## Devil's Advocate (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks for that link, kurzon. I checked out the site and it looks good.

iansales, J.D., once again thanks for your thoughts. You're right, it's never that simple. But you guys have given me a whole bunch of names; I'll pick out a couple and try 'em on for size.

Let's see how they fit.


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## Montero (Apr 30, 2010)

Chrispenycate, Kurzon

I'm intrigued by what you've said about Melissa Scott.  Looked her up on Fantastic Fiction.  One of the "if you like her you'll like this author too" bits had Tanya Huff.  Would you say there is a similarity?  (Assuming of course you've read Tanya Huff.)


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## kurzon (May 1, 2010)

Mm - I've only read a bit of Huff, but I would not say that they're similar writers (beyond being female and rather good). Scott does far more sf than fantasy. Her fantasy books (which were written with another author) are beautifully detailed and realised - excellent prose, and most definitely not "same old same old".

I think the main reason I like Scott is that she takes me to new, interesting places when reading.

Another sf author I'll recommend while I'm I'm at it is Pat Cadigan. [Cyberpunk, for the most part and just...interesting!]


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## bobbo19 (May 1, 2010)

dive straight into the Culture Universe by Iain M Banks, or the Xeelee Unvierse by Stephen Baxter. Also could try out Alastair Reynolds. All three are great


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## Stephen Palmer (May 4, 2010)

_Marrow_ by Robert Reed


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## Devil's Advocate (May 27, 2010)

iansales said:


> I would suggest *The New Space Opera* or *The New Space Opera 2*, a pair of recent anthologies of, er, space opera, edited by Gardner Dozois & Jonathan Strahan. Should give you a good taste of the state of the genre.


Just thought I'd mention that I was in Magrudy's a few hours ago, and did manage to find The New Space Opera.

So I'm going to give that a shot* and see how I like it. Again, thanks for the recommendations.


* Although I have several unread books in my collection, so I'm not sure when I'll get around to it.


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## kcartlidge (Jul 25, 2010)

Avoid "Wheel of Time" if you want good writing (apart from the first two which are okay). Avoid any "E E Doc Smith" for the same reason, though he is one of my favourites when I just want over-the-top space opera. Terry Goodkind is terrible.

I'd go for C J Cherryh's "Chronicles of Morgaine" and Glen Cook's "Black Company" for good fantasy. Richard Morgans "Black Man" for SciFi. Ben Bova for old-style hard SF. Joe Abercrombie's first 2 books in the "First Law" series for more fantasy, along with Moorcock's "Elric" stuff. Dan Simmons "Hyperion" for SF. Robert Howard still hasn't been beaten for old style sword and sorcery (Conan and Solomon Kane), but don't bother with other authors works in the same settings. Steven Erikson writes very well too, and if you want good action with humour then try Simon R Green's "Hawk and Fisher" and "Deathstalker" books.

To be honest there are way too many options, so these are just a starting point ...


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