# Myth vs Reality - Understanding the Trojan War



## Gordon Doherty (Oct 7, 2021)

The legend of the Trojan War is recounted in Homer’s Iliad – a revered text, arguably the crux of classical literature and foundational to the history of Western civilization. In that previous sentence, you might notice two words that sit somewhat at odds: history and legend.

This blog looks between the Iliad's verses and tries to shine a light upon the historical reality behind the epic story:








						Myth vs Reality - Understanding The Trojan War
					

The legend of the Trojan War is recounted in Homer’s Iliad – a revered text, arguably the crux of classical literature and foundational to the history of Western civilization. In that previous...



					www.gordondoherty.co.uk


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## paranoid marvin (Oct 7, 2021)

One civilisation laying siege to another is the age-old story of human civilisation. I doubt that there was ever a great horse built that housed enough men to open up the city; more likely the Trojan horse was  probably some trick or ruse, or perhaps something to do with a cavalry tactic to gain access to the city.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 7, 2021)

Troy was of Hittite  origin ? Fascinating.


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 7, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> One civilisation laying siege to another is the age-old story of human civilisation. I doubt that there was ever a great horse built that housed enough men to open up the city; more likely the Trojan horse was  probably some trick or ruse, or perhaps something to do with a cavalry tactic to gain access to the city.


Watch out for a future blog from me about the horse! 
David Gemmell worked a wonderful twist into his Troy trilogy with cavalry. As beautiful as it was I think it's also unlikely because armed warriors charging on horseback wasn't really viable in that era (smaller horses prior to the development of diet and breeding techniques) - hence the predominance of chariots.


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 7, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> Troy was of Hittite  origin ? Fascinating.


Well, it's a debatable matter at least 
They were almost certainly melting-pot in terms of culture, but couldn't have failed to incorporate the customs and practices of their near super-neighbours the Hittite Empire!


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## BAYLOR (Oct 7, 2021)

Gordon Doherty said:


> Watch out for a future blog from me about the horse!
> David Gemmell worked a wonderful twist into his Troy trilogy with cavalry. As beautiful as it was I think it's also unlikely because armed warriors charging on horseback wasn't really viable in that era (smaller horses prior to the development of diet and breeding techniques) - hence the predominance of chariots.



*The Shatter Horse *by S P Somtow .   It's fantasy but , You might find the story premise to be of interest.


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 7, 2021)

Thank you - I will have a look at that


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## BAYLOR (Oct 7, 2021)

Gordon Doherty said:


> Thank you - I will have a look at that



*The Shattered Horse.  *is the correct title ,sorry slight typo on my part.


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 14, 2021)

A second blog article in the series: "The Armies of the Trojan War"
https://www.gordondoherty.co.uk/writeblog/the-armies-of-the-trojan-warThe Armies of the Trojan War






 (artwork by Giuseppe Rava)


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 21, 2021)

A third article in the series 

Could the legendary events that led to the founding of Rome have turned out very differently? This blog searches for a missing piece of the Trojan War jigsaw  - the whereabouts of the Hittite Empire, at the time of the war Troy's supposed overlords and protectors.









						Troy's Absent Saviours
					

The Trojan War. Everyone knows at least the kernel of the story : Prince Paris of Troy abducted Helen, Queen of Sparta. Incensed, the Greeks gathered a giant army, landed at Troy and besieged the...



					www.gordondoherty.co.uk
				



(Note, there is a book ad at the foot of the article - just so you know up front)




(A depiction of the Hittite chariot elites dealing with some insurgents, by Angel Garcia Pinto)


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## svalbard (Oct 23, 2021)

Good article. I am nearly finished The Shadow of Troy. The other books in the series are really. I think you have done a great job in bringing late Bronze Age Middle East to life. One question. The strange garb of the Seha Riverland Warriors. Your invention or research?


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 25, 2021)

svalbard said:


> Good article. I am nearly finished The Shadow of Troy. The other books in the series are really. I think you have done a great job in bringing late Bronze Age Middle East to life. One question. The strange garb of the Seha Riverland Warriors. Your invention or research?



Thanks for the kind words, and for trying the series - glad you're enjoying!
As for the Seha Riverland warriors... their preference for wearing 'not a stitch on their bottom halves' is invention. I saw it as a) a means of distinguishing them from the many other tribes and b) a perfect opportunity for some good old gutter humour!
The second reason in particular I find vital. When writing about such brutality and dark events, I really need a palate-cleanser of humour every so often, and my sense of humour - as you might have noticed - is still very much at schoolboy level 

Anyway, I'm editing book 6 - the last in the series, entitled 'The Dark Earth' - now. Hope to have it polished and ready to publish next spring or summer. The trouserless/kiltless ones make an appearance in that volume


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## svalbard (Oct 27, 2021)

I will look forward to that. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey with Hattu.


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## BAYLOR (Oct 30, 2021)

Gordon Doherty said:


> A third article in the series
> 
> Could the legendary events that led to the founding of Rome have turned out very differently? This blog searches for a missing piece of the Trojan War jigsaw  - the whereabouts of the Hittite Empire, at the time of the war Troy's supposed overlords and protectors.
> 
> ...




In alternate timeline,  Hattusilis executes  his nephew  instead of sparing him , With Urhi Teshub out the picture, everyone in the the Hittite Empire fall into line behind Hattusilis and with that the fortunes of the Hittite  empire change. With the Hittite support, the Trojans defeats the Greeks and with their fall . they cultural influence in the Mediterranean region gets significantly reduced and  never rise again. Hattusilis allies  himself with Egypt and together they march on and defeat the Assyrians and reduce their cites to rubble.  I think the Romans still happen but ,this time around  they're  facing  a very powerful Hittite  empire and and equally powerful Egyptian  empire both of whom would be a match for them and on top of that, there  would be their client kingdoms which would include Carthage.   The Romans would be effectively held in check.

I do admit Im making more than few long shot  assumptions and presumptions what could have happened.


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## Gordon Doherty (Oct 30, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> In alternate timeline,  Hattusilis executes  his nephew  instead of sparing him , With Urhi Teshub out the picture, everyone in the the Hittite Empire fall into line behind Hattusilis and with that the fortunes of the Hittite  empire change. With the Hittite support, the Trojans defeats the Greeks and with their fall . they cultural influence in the Mediterranean region gets significantly reduced and  never rise again. Hattusilis allies  himself with Egypt and together they march on and defeat the Assyrians and reduce their cites to rubble.  I think the Romans still happen but ,this time around  they're  facing  a very powerful Hittite  empire and and equally powerful Egyptian  empire both of whom would be a match for them and on top of that, there  would be their client kingdoms which would include Carthage.   The Romans would be effectively held in check.
> 
> I do admit Im making more than few long shot  assumptions and presumptions what could have happened.


I love that! Alternate history - especially concerning the Roman Empire - is a bit of a plaything of mine. I've never considered it from this angle though!
The era when Rome was squashed up against an ultra-powerful, militaristic Sassanid Persia is probably my favourite... so yeah swap the Sassanids for a duo of Egypt and Hittites and you have a three-pronged tussle...
...I'm getting carried away with it now


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## BAYLOR (Oct 31, 2021)

Gordon Doherty said:


> I love that! Alternate history - especially concerning the Roman Empire - is a bit of a plaything of mine. I've never considered it from this angle though!
> The era when Rome was squashed up against an ultra-powerful, militaristic Sassanid Persia is probably my favourite... so yeah swap the Sassanids for a duo of Egypt and Hittites and you have a three-pronged tussle...
> ...I'm getting carried away with it now



Given Greeces contributions to Mathematics , Philosophy, politics , government , history  science and literature, their downfall would have huge consequences  for the world that came  after . No Alexander the Great, the city of Alexandria not its library ever  get built,  no expansion of Greek ideas and knowledge ,  no Iliad ,  if there is story , it's written by some else and,  has afar different narrative and ending.  And of course no Odyssey either.

I think that in this timeline,  Rome is effectively blocked from control and expansion of any kind into the Mediterranean . So what they do is strike north into Germany and,  I think they ultimately  subdue and pacify the whole region but this will  prove expensive in lives and resources, after that  the leaders  of Rome will conclude that the best course of action is to  grant the  Germans full citizenship within the Empire .Thus further  pacifying them by giving them a stake in things. I think it possible they also will still land in Britain and with the addition resources and manpower , a their disposal ,they bring the entire  Island under their controll and very likely , Ireland as well. They may or may not   make play for Norway and Scandinavia , I think they wait on that .  As For Gaul,   in this version of history, The Romans have far better relationship because  likely conclude that it makes  sense to have strong ally,  so they help  unite the people of Gaul into a unified Kingdom under one overall Chief/King  .  What you have is a Europe with Four  significantly powerful states . This circumstance would lily  blunt all the barbarian invasion  including Mongols as well.

At some point in history , those Four  states start to look in the direction of the Atlantic and beyond . The age of exploration happens in  this timeline, only earlier and unflods quite differently then our timeline.


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## svalbard (Oct 31, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> In alternate timeline,  Hattusilis executes  his nephew  instead of sparing him , With Urhi Teshub out the picture, everyone in the the Hittite Empire fall into line behind Hattusilis and with that the fortunes of the Hittite  empire change. With the Hittite support, the Trojans defeats the Greeks and with their fall . they cultural influence in the Mediterranean region gets significantly reduced and  never rise again. Hattusilis allies  himself with Egypt and together they march on and defeat the Assyrians and reduce their cites to rubble.  I think the Romans still happen but ,this time around  they're  facing  a very powerful Hittite  empire and and equally powerful Egyptian  empire both of whom would be a match for them and on top of that, there  would be their client kingdoms which would include Carthage.   The Romans would be effectively held in check.
> 
> I do admit Im making more than few long shot  assumptions and presumptions what could have happened.



I like that alternate history. To counter though. The Sea People's will still happen. There is a cultural, climatic and economic transition happening in this period. History throws up these eras at times. I believe we are on the cusp of one at the moment. The big problem for the Hittites and one they always struggled with is manpower. They just didn't have enough to sustain their empire.


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## Gordon Doherty (Nov 1, 2021)

svalbard said:


> I like that alternate history. To counter though. The Sea People's will still happen. There is a cultural, climatic and economic transition happening in this period. History throws up these eras at times. *I believe we are on the cusp of one at the moment.* The big problem for the Hittites and one they always struggled with is manpower. They just didn't have enough to sustain their empire.


Sadly, I do too. I say sadly because - as evidenced by migrational periods in the past (The Sea Peoples, The Great Migration, the Indian independence migrations to name but a few) - we as a species seem incapable of dealing with such situations. To be fair, these kind of periods present such multi-faceted challenges that it is probably impossible to handle them 'perfectly'. We could certainly do a whole lot better though.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 1, 2021)

I too have a bit of soft spot for Romans.  If certain key events in their history had gone just a bit differently , Rome would have made it.


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## svalbard (Nov 1, 2021)

Their system failed them in the end Baylor. Economics being one of the main issues. Also all empires end at some stage.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 1, 2021)

svalbard said:


> Their system failed them in the end Baylor. Economics being one of the main issues. Also all empires end at some stage.



If for example , Germanicus had lived to rule Rome , that might have change a number of things .


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## svalbard (Nov 1, 2021)

He died too young. Who knows indeed? However there were plenty of great Emperors over the centuries. The problems of the Roman Empire were deeper than military crisis, rebellions etc. IMHO it is amazing the whole enterprise lasted so long, even more amazing that the Romans managed to aquire an empire in the first place considering the absolute chaos of the Republican political system. 

Yet they managed to keep producing great leaders just when they needed one. Manlius, Furius, Cincinnatus, Fabius, Scipio Africanus, Marius. I don't count Caesar as he lead to the end of the Republic and never actually saved the city. You could argue that Sulla was a better Republican than Caesar.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 2, 2021)

svalbard said:


> He died too young. Who knows indeed? However there were plenty of great Emperors over the centuries. The problems of the Roman Empire were deeper than military crisis, rebellions etc. IMHO it is amazing the whole enterprise lasted so long, even more amazing that the Romans managed to aquire an empire in the first place considering the absolute chaos of the Republican political system.
> 
> Yet they managed to keep producing great leaders just when they needed one. Manlius, Furius, Cincinnatus, Fabius, Scipio Africanus, Marius. I don't count Caesar as he lead to the end of the Republic and never actually saved the city. You could argue that Sulla was a better Republican than Caesar.



Julius  Caesar was a malevolent and throughly narcissistic human being . In many ways, a villain.


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## svalbard (Nov 2, 2021)

As many a Gaul would attest to.


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## Danny McG (Nov 4, 2021)

Brad Pitt won the beach on day one of the Trojan war


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## BAYLOR (Nov 14, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> Brad Pitt won the beach on day one of the Trojan war



As a human being,  Achilles the warrior  was a total heel .


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