# Longbow vs armour



## Brian G Turner (Sep 21, 2019)

An interesting 30 minute video attempts to explore the impact of longbows on plate armour of mediaeval knights, especially with regards to Agincourt - perhaps more interestingly showing some of the secondary effects that might be overlooked:


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## Parson (Sep 21, 2019)

That was a highly informative video. I had never thought about what happens if the armor stops the original strike.


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## RJM Corbet (Sep 21, 2019)

Cool video, Brian ...


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## Brian G Turner (Sep 21, 2019)

I like the way that apparently decorative "V" at the top proved to be an essential life-saver.


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## The Judge (Sep 21, 2019)

Interesting to see Tobias Capwell there.  I've got a book he wrote to accompany an exhibition of renaissance swords at the Wallace Collection, and it's both informative and captivating, and beautifully put together.


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## RJM Corbet (Sep 22, 2019)

Brian G Turner said:


> I like the way that apparently decorative "V" at the top proved to be an essential life-saver.


Totally.

On the yew bow: I believe the quality of yew is that the inner part of the tree is good at contraction, while the outer part is good at expansion. So the bow is made from a split section of the tree, with the inner part on the inside and the outer part on the outside.

Because the outer layer likes expansion, the bow does not crack, and the inner compressed layer springs back to it's original shape, giving the power to the bow.

It takes a lot of strength to use a powerful bow. If the string catches the inner arm that is holding the bow, it can strip skin from the arm. Very painful. You wear the leather arm protector, but the string tends to catch above the protector and the resulting pinch against the top of the protector can slice flesh.

I feel a bit sorry for the arrow guy, though. I hope he got paid, lol ...


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## RJM Corbet (Sep 22, 2019)

Check this out, lol:


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## Elckerlyc (Sep 22, 2019)

That is awesome. It takes science to be a expert shot.


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## Foxbat (Sep 22, 2019)

There are some interesting similarities to this and modern tank armour. The curve helps deflect a shot (as does the V) almost the same as sloping armour does on a tank. As to injury without penetration, another similarity: In WW2 an effect called 'flaking' was common. This was armour that stopped a penetration but the armour itself begun to break up inside the tank, acting like shrapnel and causing injury to the crew.


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## Parson (Sep 23, 2019)

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind in the original video. I wonder how a person reacted to being hit with an arrow traveling at the velocity even if the armor successfully stopped the penetration. Might it have knocked the wearer down? stunned him? or otherwise made him a soft target for the next attack?


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## sknox (Sep 23, 2019)

Sort of at the other extreme, there are accounts of crusaders in the Holy Land coming out of a battle stuck full of arrows but uninjured. These were arrows from Turkish or Egyptian short bows, and the crusaders were wearing linen armor, sometimes with chain mail over. Linen is surprisingly tough. No word on bruising.


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## -K2- (Sep 23, 2019)

sknox said:


> Sort of at the other extreme, there are accounts of crusaders in the Holy Land coming out of a battle stuck full of arrows but uninjured. These were arrows from Turkish or Egyptian short bows, and the crusaders were wearing linen armor, sometimes with chain mail over. Linen is surprisingly tough. No word on bruising.



Though I'm not an expert (and suspect this can be researched), it's my understanding that the quilted/padded cloth undergarments were actually crucial to mail being effective. It is what contributes to impact absorption and distribution. Otherwise, the mail responds like a rigid piece, eliminating energy distribution (focused on the link in contact), and only grants the amount of absorption the wearer's flesh might offer.

Again, just what I have read, which doesn't make it fact.

K2


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## RJM Corbet (Sep 23, 2019)

From the video it appears that splinter and deflection injuries off the plate armour were a great danger; padded linen worn _over_ the plate armour reduced this?


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## sknox (Sep 23, 2019)

Good point, that. Linen padding as a surcoat was worn by the crusaders as a way to keep cool. 

It's worth noting that you didn't normally wear armor while traveling. This would be more when you knew battle was imminent or at least a real danger on that day.

Now I think about it, this could be a major benefit of surprise. Your enemy didn't have time to suit up properly.


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## Caledfwlch (Sep 23, 2019)

Legend would seem to have it that the Needle Bodkin Arrow was basically the super weapon of English and Welsh Archers, turning the Warbow (iirc that's the proper name for what is commonly called a longbow) into a deadly and merciless Knight Killer. Recent tests suggest this may not be the case, at least not to the extent supposed.

When digging up medieval sites, the remains of warbow archers are easy to identify - the right shoulder being deformed, having in life had highly over developed shoulder muscles and the left hand would have burrs etc on the bone from the string impacting.


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## Foxbat (Sep 29, 2019)

sknox said:


> Sort of at the other extreme, there are accounts of crusaders in the Holy Land coming out of a battle stuck full of arrows but uninjured. These were arrows from Turkish or Egyptian short bows, and the crusaders were wearing linen armor, sometimes with chain mail over. Linen is surprisingly tough. No word on bruising.


I'm sure I read somewhere that the Mongols wore silk under their clothing for much the same form of protection. Again, surprisingly effective.


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