# Weapons mix and descriptive language



## Danny Creasy (Oct 26, 2017)

With the supply of both encased cartridges and centerfire reloading components dwindling in one of my fictional worlds, I chose to arm only my elite warriors with repeating firearms. The far more numerous militiamen and women carry modern takes on percussion and flintlock muzzleloaders. My combatants mastered the manufacture of blackpowder. It was challenging to come up with realistic engagement strategies given the disparity of weaponry.

I also wanted to avoid all manufacturer names and model designations. Descriptive language proved to be challenging but fun. Not a "Glock" but a "polymer framed 9mm semi-auto pistol."
This technique eased my liability and trademark paranoia as well.

My daughter read my original manuscript and stated, "Daddy, I know you kind of wrote this for 'gun guys', but it is a neat story, and I like the strong female characters. It's just all that weapons terminology that bugs me. I'm reading along and you wrote, 'Swarovski field glasses." I go blank wondering about the significance of 'Swarovski' and fear I'm missing some greater significance. Could you just type, 'binoculars' and let the reader visualize the device?"

I spent two or three weeks rewriting that manuscript. Since I was only a few thousand words into the sequel, book two was an easy fix.


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## Brian G Turner (Oct 26, 2017)

The thrillers I've read have no problem naming gun models. It helps bring a sense of realism to the world, and makes the writer seem knowledgeable about the subject they're writing about.

What you're writing seems like trying to explain, rather than describe, your weapons. Firstly, does calling a gun a ""polymer framed 9mm semi-auto pistol" make it any easier for your daughter to imagine? Additionally, is she really your target audience? 

One of the big lessons in writing - IMO - is learning to simply call a spade "a spade". Anything else is more likely to be over-writing or poetry.

2c.


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## tinkerdan (Oct 27, 2017)

I'm not sure as to the reference of genre or what your fictional world might be like.
However I think personally I'd be more interested in some different specifics about other there things if this was a dystopic environment that's every man for himself or some equivalent.

What I'm getting at is that I'd be more interested in the supply of all the necessities to keep a firearm active in service. Where does the powder come from and the casings or shells for the bullets and how do they replace the weapon itself. Possibly some description of how making their own bullets is time consuming but gives them flexibility in allowing different types of load for different occasions. I'm not at all sure I'd be interested much in what they were named and would be more comfortable if they had names I'm familiar with.

Keep in mind that I'm not that much of an enthusiast though I have some acquaintances who are.

Trademark shouldn't be an issue since it's meant to protect from other people naming similar products with similar names. In your book it would be assumed that the proper people made those original weapons unless your people are manufacturing their own and even then I'd think that 9mm handgun would work. Whereas Glock, Beretta, and Smith and Wesson might start stepping on toes. But again you are not selling weapons with these names.


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## TitaniumTi (Oct 27, 2017)

Generally speaking, I agree with your daughter. Unnecessary detail gets in the way of the story. The stories I enjoy, and the authors I admire, make those details they do include serve double or triple duty. If you're going into technicalities on the weapon, also tell me how it feels and smells and looks to your protagonist, and how it makes him or her feel. Give me details that bring me closer to the story and the protagonist.

What matters is how your protagonist thinks of the weapon. In the heat of battle, she's probably thinking, "I have seconds to get my pistol out and aimed between his eyes," while he's thinking, "her hand's too damn steady on that gun." But perhaps she's thinking, "Even after all these years I get a thrill whenever I puncture another thug with my polymer-framed 9mm semi-automatic pistol," and he's thinking, "Where the heck did she find a polymer-framed 9mm semi-automatic pistol in Outer Hicksville?"


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## Danny Creasy (Oct 29, 2017)

Good points. Thanks for the intelligent feedback.


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## Edward M. Grant (Oct 30, 2017)

Thing is, once you're at the tech level where you can make percussion caps, you're really not far from making self-contained cartridges. They might not be very good ones, but they'll let you fire significantly faster than a muzzle-loader would, at least until the gunpowder clogs up the gun and needs cleaning.

In fact, Wikipedia claims that self-contained cartridges preceded the percussion cap in our world.


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## Montero (Oct 30, 2017)

Well - self-contained cartridges go back a lot further than you'd think. I did English Civil War re-enactment - and did some firing of muzzle loading muskets.
At the period two things were in general use - wooden bottles each with a measured charge of powder in it, hung from a bandolier and hand made paper cartridges each with a measured charge of powder in it and you'd have a bag full of those at your hip. Grab one, rip off end with teeth, tip powder down muzzle, screw paper and drop in after, ram down the paper wad. Some cartridges would have had the lead shot twisted in the end - bite off bit with lead shot in, tip powder etc, spit ball down the muzzle. We didn't do that bit. They weren't the sort of cartridges that could be breach loaded, but they were real paper cartridges.


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## Edward M. Grant (Oct 31, 2017)

I was thinking modern-style metal cartridges for breech-loaders. Paper cartridges go back quite a bit further than that, but aren't as easy to use.


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## Danny Creasy (Nov 2, 2017)

It's not the knowledge and skills in my post-apocalyptic story that are the challenge. My players are confined to a relatively small geographic area; the issue is scarce resources such as brass, copper, and the supplies necessary to make smokeless powder. They have competent armorers and munitions manufacturers but have to be very creative in coming up with raw materials. Much recycling and jerry-rigging.

Even the metal required to stamp out percussion caps and primers is dear. That's why I have the protagonists developing an inline flintlock for their militia. 

By the way, medicine is quite frustrating. No synthetic drugs. 21st Century knowledge with 19th Century resources.


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## Montero (Nov 2, 2017)

What about anaesthetics and antiseptics?


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## Vladd67 (Nov 2, 2017)

Montero said:


> Well - self-contained cartridges go back a lot further than you'd think. I did English Civil War re-enactment - and did some firing of muzzle loading muskets.
> At the period two things were in general use - wooden bottles each with a measured charge of powder in it, hung from a bandolier and hand made paper cartridges each with a measured charge of powder in it and you'd have a bag full of those at your hip. Grab one, rip off end with teeth, tip powder down muzzle, screw paper and drop in after, ram down the paper wad. Some cartridges would have had the lead shot twisted in the end - bite off bit with lead shot in, tip powder etc, spit ball down the muzzle. We didn't do that bit. They weren't the sort of cartridges that could be breach loaded, but they were real paper cartridges.


When you were doing this re-enactment can I take a wild guess as to what you wore on your head?


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## Montero (Nov 3, 2017)

Ahh........ actually no. Felt hat.


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## Vladd67 (Nov 3, 2017)

Montero said:


> Ahh........ actually no. Felt hat.


Me too with one side pinned up with a touch hole pin so it was out of the way of my musket when marching.


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## Montero (Nov 3, 2017)

Thong to tie it onto your head......?


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## Vladd67 (Nov 3, 2017)

Of course


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## Montero (Nov 3, 2017)

Ribbons to hold up your stockings?


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## Vladd67 (Nov 3, 2017)

I wore hose held in place with the ties at end of my grey britches, and a blue coat.


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## Montero (Nov 3, 2017)

Yeah, you're right - it was hose, not stockings. Been a little while. I had buttons on the knee band of my breeches, so ribbons/strips of cotton tape/knitted wool tape for my hose - varied.


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## Vladd67 (Nov 4, 2017)

My old regiment, it’s been years since I stopped going.
Prince Rupert's Regiment of Foot


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## Danny Creasy (Nov 7, 2017)

Montero said:


> What about anaesthetics and antiseptics?



I never engaged this in Book One or Two. Thank you! I'll discuss with my scientist, engineer, and doctor friends and address it in Book Three.


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## ralphkern (Nov 7, 2017)

Bob pointed his polymer framed 9mm semi-auto pistol at John?

My experience is that people like a bit of detail threaded naturally into a story - especially if your seeking the military Pron fans. It helps give authority to your writing. The key is it has to be natural. 

For example, I have one scene where a character is taking a long distance sniper shot. The POV has time to think things through and ensure its right. I wanted to deliberatly slow the pace, giving a fair amount of detail on the set up and equipment involved to show the readers it was a carefully engineered and considered act. 

In other scenes where the fighting is more frantic, I lose that detail and concetrate on the actual action and character experience rather than the toys involved. Crucially though, by that point, the reader has built up trust that what I am showing is accurate.

As a slight aside, I'm a former firearms officer in the Police. Without sounding big headed, I would say my knowledge is a bit better than the layman. I would really struggle to identify different pistols at a glance. Rifles are a bit easier, being bigger and more distinctive but even then, it can be tricky.


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## The Big Peat (Nov 7, 2017)

Given people's tendency to nickname, acronymise, and generally avoide saying as many words as possible, how likely is it that someone would refer to said polymer framed 9mm semi-auto as such anyway? Admittedly, the weapons were about the only thing not nicknamed in my brief TA existence, but even so, all the weapons would be referred to by their acronym rather than their full name.


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