# Found a sword... but what is it?



## sloweye (Dec 26, 2010)

Can anyone give me a clue on the origens of this sword?











_(click them to open)_

The leather scabbard has almost rotted away, it's rusted but not fully.
There is some words on the blade but you can't read them (even tried brass rubbing but no luck) the pommel, cross guard and blade show signs of use. the leather grip has shrinkage, the wood under it is old oak.
It is a single edged blade and was made (by the cutting edge and scabbard) for a left handed user, and is a single handed sword.

If anyone has any ideas i'd be most greatful. (i've been looking for ages)


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## Vertigo (Dec 26, 2010)

I've sent a link to this thread to my brother as he is pretty knowledgeable on swords and armour and stuff! Hopefully he might be able to help.


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## sloweye (Dec 26, 2010)

Thats great, thanks.
It's beaten me, i have non clue. Been told by three people that its Italian, Spanish & German. so i went on the info hunt just to be more confused by the fact all three of those nations have blades that are like, but not the same as this one.


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## Vertigo (Dec 26, 2010)

Well as I say my brother may be able to help, however he is a bit of an intermittent web user so not too sure how quick he'll be to get back.


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## The Judge (Dec 26, 2010)

Teresa's husband is something of an expert on swords, I believe.  It might be worth a PM to her, to see if he is able to help.


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## sloweye (Dec 26, 2010)

Cheers TJ. It's bugging me as i know where all my others have come from. Mind, they arn't of any real age.


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## murphy (Dec 26, 2010)

If you do find out, be sure and let us know.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Dec 27, 2010)

It looks good, whatever it is. I would hazard a guess of European, perhaps early Middle Ages? I'm definitely no expert but it from the size and shape of the blade I would guess it came around before broadswords.


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## Culhwch (Dec 27, 2010)

I love how you just say, all off the cuff, 'I found a sword'! Where on earth did you find a sword? The local thrift store?


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## TheEndIsNigh (Dec 27, 2010)

sloweye said:


> Can anyone give me a clue on the origens of this sword?
> 
> The leather scabbard has almost rotted away, it's rusted but not fully.
> There is some words on the blade but you can't read them (even tried brass rubbing but no luck) the pommel, cross guard and blade show signs of use. the leather grip has shrinkage, the wood under it is old oak.
> ...


 
assuming the word's aren't



> He who draws the Sword from the stone...


 
Doesn't the British Museum have a service for tracking down things like this? Or if not them, I'm sure your local museum would be able to help.


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## Gary Compton (Dec 27, 2010)

Culhwch said:


> I love how you just say, all off the cuff, 'I found a sword'! Where on earth did you find a sword? The local thrift store?


 
Swords"r"us


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## sloweye (Dec 27, 2010)

Culhwch said:


> I love how you just say, all off the cuff, 'I found a sword'! Where on earth did you find a sword? The local thrift store?



 um, you know that thing you do in farmers fields with electronic sticks that have electronic plates for finding things?... yeah that  shhhh.


The blade seems to be from (or more likely modled on) late 17th, but the hilt is wrong,. its been sugested that the one ornate hilt was taken off and sold for the metals in it and a wood and leather grip put on along with the cross guard from a long dagger and a very roughly moulded pommel.

Still looking, although the blade is very much like the one i saw, i'm not holding out for the age.


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## sloweye (Dec 27, 2010)

(click to open)

17th century North European.
The blade is the same design with a single edge and three fullers. closest so far.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Dec 27, 2010)

Could be a replaced hilt. I think the saber hilt looks more out of place, though, than the broadsword hilt. But as I said, I'm no weapons expert.


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## sloweye (Dec 27, 2010)

It’s by far the most plausible explanation so far. Say, the blade is almost identical apart from the blade on mine has heavy signs of continued sharpening and a few knicks that suggest its been in use before (Oh, and the snaped pointy end).
  It would interest me to know how it came to be under a hedge row along side an old Roman road with only the hilt half wrapped…  All I need is a TARDIS  .


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## paranoid marvin (Dec 28, 2010)

It wasn't sticking out of an anvil or anything was it?


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## PTeppic (Dec 29, 2010)

Could be a musketeer or pikeman's sword from 17th century. Think the style is called "hanger".

Obviously, when you've called in the local archaeologists they'll be able to give you a much better idea of the date when they contextualise the find...


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## sloweye (Dec 29, 2010)

> It wasn't sticking out of an anvil or anything was it?



I would be off rebuilding England if it were 



> Could be a musketeer or pikeman's sword from 17th century



Think it's to heavy for a musketeer blade


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jan 2, 2011)

I did ask my husband, who is not quite an expert, but does know quite a bit on the subject.  This is what he said:



> I agree that the pommel and the guard do not look original.  The pommel is definitely too small and looks makeshift, and the quillons are questionable. The single-edged blade would likely be 17th or 18th century, when such blades were common, but earlier examples have been found.  There are Venetian backswords (single-edged with fullers) from the 15th through 16th century, but the guard and pommel are entirely different.
> 
> From the condition of the blade and scabbard it is _extremely_ unlikely that it was lying in the ground since the 17th or 18th century.  Have there been any medieval recreation events in that area?
> 
> I suggest that you seek the opinions of some of the experts on myarmoury.com which I have found to be a good source.


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## sloweye (Jan 2, 2011)

Thats great, thank you.

As far as i know there haven't been recreation events around here. Ours is a coal minning village thats only been here for around 130 years or so, but the surrounding villages were all in the doomsday book, and the roman road runs all the way from the coast through to the oldest of the surrounding towns.
The ground it was in has very high levels of clay and chalk, its condition & location are a real stumper.

Thanks to you both for taking the time to look 
I will take a look at that website.


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## Vertigo (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi Sloweye, my apologies but my brother never bothered to post , however he did look at the pictures and he reckons that blade might well be a 17th century broadsword. He also agrees with TE's husband that the hilt is almost certainly not original. His suspicion is that the hilt might be victorian; apparently they were heavily into recreated pageantry and tended to rummage around for old bits of armour in the attic and then tart them up with typical Victorian ideas of romanticism. He also agrees with TE's husband that there is no way the leather and wood parts (hilt and scabbard) have spent any great length of time underground, however from the pitting on the blade it is very possible the blade has at some time. His recommendation would be to take it to the caretaker of the Wallace collection in London who is apparently one of the foremost experts on old swords and amour in the country.


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## sloweye (Jan 24, 2011)

I took it to the Armoury at the local castle as my brother in law was doing some computer work up there out of season. the guy there said the blade was almost definatly 17th, due to the length, shape and fullers (altough he thinks the writting on the blade was put there be a person and not the maker). But he seemed to think the cross guard was late napoleonic, possibaly from a cheaply made sargents sword bayonet.
I to forgot to post my findings


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## cornelius (Jan 24, 2011)

I can't add much to what has been said, but the swords components are indeed not original, might be that the blade was forged and the grip was sort of attached to it. I can't judge the size, but I've seen similar weapons as a decorative piece in a mansion. The leather and wood would suggest some "modding", so I'd take a closer look to the actual blade and only work from there. The fuller seems to take an odd stretch along the blade, I might be entirely wrong but this might be a recreated blade, or an ornamental piece. I'm far from an expert. I used to have a great site bookmarked for this type of things, but that's on my old laptop. Might give the old puter a nudge and see if I can find it for you.


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