# star wars vs LOTR



## Eradius Lore (Apr 19, 2005)

this has bugged me for a while now, can you say that the bum numbing trilogy that is lord of the rings is better than star wars, star wars changed the world of films, special effects of the time before star wars is not even worth mentioning about but after sw most films use industrial light and magic (star wars company). what did LOTR bring us? 47 extra disks and a bum transplant.


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## Leto (Apr 19, 2005)

Think the other way, without LOTR novels, no Star wars. 
Are you paid by Lucas art or is there something else than Star wars which attracted you here ?


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## red_temple (Apr 19, 2005)

When I was 10 years old, the first Star Wars movie was released.  I proceeded to see it nearly every week for over a year (mom was always great about dropping me off at the mall on Saturdays).  Star Wars defined my movie life from that point onward.  It was the movie I measured all others against.

But then George Lucas stopped caring about the fans, the story and, most importantly, *directing*.  He gave us the dual abominations known as "The Phantom Menace" and "Attack of the Clones."  He tinkered and changed that which was perfect - the original Star Wars.  Greedo shoots first?  Gimme a break.  And lets face it, Return of the Jedi kinda sucked, too (Ewoks, anyone?).

For me, these insults forever devauled something that I loved (admittedly, still love, but with a heavy heart).  For these reasons, I gave my vote to LOTR.  And no, it was not bum numbing for me - not by a longshot.  I wish the movies would have been longer - 5 or 6 hours each would have been nice.   Because as much as I *saw* and lived Star Wars in my youth, I *read* and lived LOTR.  It was nice to be able to see it, and see it done well by a director in his prime, who is willing to put 100% into *every* facet of movie-making (not just the special effects).

And yes, Star Wars was revolutionary as a movie.  So was LOTR, as both book and movie.  Each one paves the way for the next.


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## Frey Slayer (Apr 20, 2005)

I agree with Red Temple, he pretty much said it all. 
Jackson made LOTR for the fans
Lucas made E1-3 for himself. 
This makes all the difference in the world. 

C3PO in every movie???? Why? He should have just re-used the French brownies from Willow, that would have made more sense AND been more entertaining.


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## MoonLover (Apr 20, 2005)

Two words:

JarJar Binks! Dear George lost me after that one.

Karen


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## ravenus (Apr 20, 2005)

Both highly overrated by their respective fanboys. They're reasonably fun movies with some amazing technical leaps but when you have so much iconization, it just annoys me no end.

Yoda sucks as does Gandalf. There now, happy? :yawn:


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

The Star Wars films are very poor.  Take away the nostalgia and you are left with a lot of empty _space._  Yoda is a retarded alien who just so happens to be hard as nails.  Gandalf is the greatest wizard character of any work of fiction.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Apr 20, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> Gandalf is the greatest wizard character of any work of fiction.


 
nah - Merlin could open up a can of whoop-ass on him


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

Merlin with all his mischief?  He was killed/enslaved by a woman.  You would not catch Gandalf coming a cropper against such a lowly adversary.  Gandalf would laugh at Nimue.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

you are all CRAZY! 


can't you see that star wars has so much more to offer than lord of the rings.
lord of the rings are a couple of books, star wars are like 50 or so books

star wars has the force, big starships and a whole universe for you to dream in.
lotr has golum. enough said


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

Have you read the Star Wars books?  Have you read?


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Eradius Lore said:
			
		

> you are all CRAZY!
> 
> 
> can't you see that star wars has so much more to offer than lord of the rings.
> ...



And as Ravenus said, both have fanboys of the worst specie. 

And frankly, exept the movie sequencing in trilogy, comparing Star Wars to LOTR is as dumb as comparing pears to whales.


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

I prefer pears as opposed to whales Leto.  Whales are big and messy.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

lord of the rings is one of the ******* reads ever an frankly i dont give a toss what anyone says, all my mates say the film board the socks off them, and the books more so.

of course these are people who don't think there wizards, and actually have a life and sence to see whats rubbish and wats not


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

Go easy on the language mate.  Good to see that your friends have such well formed opinions and such deep and wonderful imaginations.  

I don't think that I am wizard, I merely fantasize about being a Spartan Warrior.


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> I prefer pears as opposed to whales Leto.  Whales are big and messy.


If one day we agree, I promise to offer you a beer. 

Although your current avatar comes from one of my favorite Disney.


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

My favourite Disney movie too, although Robin Hood comes pretty close.  Actually there are so many great disney movies.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> Go easy on the language mate. Good to see that your friends have such well formed opinions and such deep and wonderful imaginations.
> 
> I don't think that I am wizard, I merely fantasize about being a Spartan Warrior.


 
i opologise i wish only to defend that which i think is great


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

It is indeed refreshing to come across a person of such intellectual calibre and linguistic refinement who is capable of presenting an argument in such an eloquent and persuavive manner.
I delight in reading threads started by such people, and there are so many of them on this board.

Then there are threads like this one.

I would post something here about Star Wars ripping most of its concepts and ideas from a mixture of western fantasy (esp LOTR) and Eastern philosophy...but anyone with half a brain already knows that.

Also, Lacey.....be honest..it's the Spartan women you fantasise about dude


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

No problem mate.  Do you only like Star Wars, or are there other movies/books which you also obsess about?


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

i read 40k novels and some other sci fi books but to be honest i care more about my tastes in music than skywalker's bad hair or the evil big eye which sees all


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 20, 2005)

The Spartan women.  They use to do their athletic training in the nude.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

Yeah, it must have been a thing of beauty...well...apart from the idea of lots of nude grandmas....

No, it's not sexist..I find the idea of lots of naked grandads even more alarming


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

At that time 50 was old age, I wouldn't mind some current naked 50 males exercising in from of me. And I would violently oppose to some younger males who are not so fitted.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

Thank you for helping me find that bad mental place Leto


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## The Master™ (Apr 20, 2005)

Just a couple of things I wanted to say - 1) why would anyone in their right minds want to compare Star Wars and Lord Of The Rings??? They are totally different genres, and the styles are completely different... I enjoy both for similar and differing reasons... If you are gonna compare something more interesting - *Which Cheese do you prefer: CHEDDAR or DOUBLE GLOUCESTER...*

And 2) There should always be more nudity in films, then we can keep all the noisy little brats out of the cinemas!!!  More nudity, less brats!!! What a great war cry!!!


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Now I'll imagine your samourai in fishnet dancing the cancan if you don't mind


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

The Master™ said:
			
		

> something more interesting - *Which Cheese do you prefer: CHEDDAR or DOUBLE GLOUCESTER...*


 
has to be Double gloucester but only if it has chives in it


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

if you can tell me what song this is from you are officially a rocker.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Woe to you Oh Earth and Sea
for the Devil sends the beast with wrath
because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding
reckon the number of the beast
for it is a human number
its number is six hundred and sixty six.


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Iron Maiden  and that doesn't prove anything except that Google is a powerful tool. More questions ?


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

i don't need google to listen to my cds


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

Leto, regarding Samurai in tights, look into the history of Kabuki Samurai.

Eradius, those lyrics are completely ruined if you sing them with a strong Cornish accent


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

good point Tsujigiri


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Tsujigiri said:
			
		

> Leto, regarding Samurai in tights, look into the history of Kabuki Samurai.
> 
> Eradius, those lyrics are completely ruined if you sing them with a strong Cornish accent



Not just tights, but fishnets ! with a lascive soul music in the background... 

Eradius, sorry to say that but your case is obviously hopeless, if you can't recognise irony when you meet it.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

Leto...you need to seek professional help.

That amateur help that you have been getting just isn't working


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## Leto (Apr 20, 2005)

Tsujigiri said:
			
		

> Leto...you need to seek professional help.
> 
> That amateur help that you have been getting just isn't working



any professional sensei to reccomend ?


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

For what you have in mind.....it depends upon the rewards for services rendered I suppose


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## Alia (Apr 20, 2005)

This poll seems a little one sided.  Not intended for anyone other than Star Wars fannatics...
I have to say, my first intro was to Star Wars... Love it.  Now older and wiser and having read LOTR and then seen the movies, I actually like them more.  Star Wars is more one way or the other were LOTR opens up new worlds fantasy.  Now don't get me wrong... I actually know what happens to Anakin's mother, where she goes and why she leaves the kids in different places and what nots... very intrigueing, but still I love fantasy more than Scifi...


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## Frey Slayer (Apr 20, 2005)

C3PO, JarJar AND Yoda, 
nope, no sir, no way


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## Alia (Apr 20, 2005)

JarJar was a complete idiot... the thing annoyed me! 

Oh by the way Frey Slayer... Love the avatar, brings back childhood memories and heroes.


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## ravenus (Apr 20, 2005)

Yoda was a dyslexic old bore...and green to boot.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 20, 2005)

Er, when you say you've read 40K novels, Eradius Lore, do you mean that you read very short books (40,000 words is just barely novel-length), or that you've read 40,000 books of whatever length?


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## Winters_Sorrow (Apr 20, 2005)

Kelpie said:
			
		

> Er, when you say you've read 40K novels, Eradius Lore, do you mean that you read very short books (40,000 words is just barely novel-length), or that you've read 40,000 books of whatever length?


 
 
40K refers to a series of books based on the Warhammer 40K table-top wargame which is moderately popular in the Uk & Europe.
It's a kind of gothic future sci-fi thing

*whisper mode on* its a set of books designed to sell metal minatures & role-playing games - similar to the Battletech books which were around about 6 years ago *whisper mode off*


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## Teresa Edgerton (Apr 20, 2005)

Ah, I see ... the heavy intellectual stuff.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 20, 2005)

warhammer 40k is one of the biggest things in the uk, its also fairly big in parts of usa, europe and japan. come on, you never heard of space marines. 
if you wana find out more go to

http://www.games-workshop.com


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## Frey Slayer (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanks for the compliment Alia. Ive used this image in several online activities of mine including poker! 
Its funny, this image is actually one of the stock Avatars provided by the forum!


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 20, 2005)

One of the biggest things...compared to what?

Cot death.....AIDS.....road traffic accidents....the upcoming election.....

A bit of perspective please. 40k is an over rated wargame with tin soldiers that Games Workshop cashes in on massively
It's generally enjoyed massively by dweebs, the socially maladjusted and the profoundly smelly..

Average shop content, one or two staff who are generally uni dropouts, several millions school kids, a few college & uni kids and some older men with  weight issues, no interpersonal skills and a severely disturbing lack of personal hygiene.


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## Winters_Sorrow (Apr 20, 2005)

Kelpie said:
			
		

> Ah, I see ... the heavy intellectual stuff.


 
well it helps you count...*shakes dice..rattle, rattle* two sixes....erm...10 + 2...12! 



			
				Tsujigiri said:
			
		

> One of the biggest things...compared to what?


 
probably D&D or any of the other more traditional role-playing games
the megalith which is Games Workshop has forced a lot of the independant model makers out of business or into niche small scale hobby shops

Games Workshop lost any small (very small) amount of interest I had in them when they decided to completely revise, re-write, dumb down etc etc their own products to the level of 10 year old children (I'm being generous).

I'm not an old man by any means, but I remember when Games Workshop sold Citadel minatures for the Middle Earth RPG amongst many others - then it just bought out all its competitors, added a few decimal places to its mainly now plastic products (instead of metal as previously) and fleeced all its customers.

Glad I'm not a parent - some of GW's prices aren't much short of extortion

bah - traditional RPGs were 2 parts story-telling to 1 part imagination.
Now it's all "you need a 4+ to penetrate my heavy armour with your lasgun"


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## Neon (Apr 21, 2005)

I too voted for LOTR.  I simply enjoy fantasy works much more than sci-fi, altho both are great.


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 21, 2005)

Chili Jam Cheddar is the best cheese out there.  That of course discludes Tintern and Cotswold.   

I spent about £250 on my LOTR Games-Workshop collection.  My girlfriend loves painting them and is very talented at it.  However, we have not done anything with the collection since we moved house.


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## LadyFel (Apr 21, 2005)

I just love the way you guys run intellectual rings around members who post questions and polls like these...

OT, I prefer straightforward cheddar cheese, but can't get my hands on any in Croatia, so I have to make do with lesser examples.

Oh, yeah...LOTR


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Apr 21, 2005)

Sheesh. They're basically the same thing - epic battles between polarized forces. For all its SFnal trappings, the Star Wars ethos is just as mediavel/fuedal and anti-rational  in essential spirit as LotR. Even if a few good writers like Stover contribute to the SW franchise novels, I must say that they don't match up to a love-it or hate-it classic like Tolkien's trilogy. Still, it's pretty much all what Moorcock calls 'epic Pooh'. Your choice of stupefaction is purely subjective. I am editing this poll however, since the wording is needlessly offensive. Can't be bothered going through each post though, so be aware that if flags are raised, heads will roll.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 21, 2005)

I am reminded of a scene from Labyrinth.

knivesout.....will there be silly music and Jennifer Connely


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## Rane Longfox (Apr 21, 2005)

Taking this back several pages



			
				Eradius Lore said:
			
		

> you are all CRAZY!
> 
> 
> can't you see that star wars has so much more to offer than lord of the rings.
> ...


 
Don't be a fool The Star Wars books are not only all the same storyline, they're also all written by different authors, so the continuity is screwy...


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## garreth Jacks (Apr 21, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> Go easy on the language mate. Good to see that your friends have such well formed opinions and such deep and wonderful imaginations.
> 
> I don't think that I am wizard, I merely fantasize about being a Spartan Warrior.


 
I know this person and are one of his mates and yes i do have a very good imagination i think that both films are good, people should not get affended when some one says some thing bad about the film it not a attack at a one person 

I have a dream that fans will every where join up and become one big union


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 21, 2005)

No offense taken.


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## NSMike (Apr 21, 2005)

You're obviously a passionate youth, Eradius Lore, unable to see that there is merit in all things, truth in few, and total consensus on none.  

You'll begin to look at Star Wars and LOTR later on and be able to form honest opinions rather than latch onto that which has more books, that which you've always liked, and therefore feel you must defend, or that which your friends support just because they support it.  And eventually, you'll realize that just knowing something does not validate your position, and trying to change someone's opinion is as pointless an exercise as arguing over the color of the sky.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 21, 2005)

NSMike

are you some kind of precher?

whats with the phlosophical talk


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 21, 2005)

Can't you read?  He's a Tsurani Great One.  (Raymond E Feist)


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 21, 2005)

im sorry if i live in the real world


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Apr 21, 2005)

If you did, perhaps you'd have larger issues than SW vs LotR to get riled over.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 21, 2005)

i do it just something i thought i should clear up. obviously i didn't expect so many fanatics. some people really need to live a bit in real time and space!


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## garreth Jacks (Apr 21, 2005)

Lacedaemonian said:
			
		

> Can't you read? He's a Tsurani Great One. (Raymond E Feist)


 
ye and i am Macros the Black


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## Winters_Sorrow (Apr 21, 2005)

Eradius Lore said:
			
		

> i do it just something i thought i should clear up. obviously i didn't expect so many fanatics. some people really need to live a bit in real time and space!


 
clear up?
you don't clear things up by spouting a biased statement and then being unable to defend yourself without resorting to petty name-calling. 

and wouldn't you say that you've been behaving like a Star Wars fanatic? unable to see the (many) flaws in that mythos and not respecting the opinions of those who don't share your viewpoint of it

at the end of the day, you're getting worked up by a _movie_ - a fictional tale written by a plagarising, sub-literate, 3rd-rate director with delusions of being a visionary

that's my opinion and the fact it differs from yours doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different


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## GOLLUM (Apr 21, 2005)

Er some "interesting" discussions here everyone.

I preferred LOTR to Star Wars myself but I think both films, certainly the first Star Wars film and the current LOTR are signifcant films BUT perhaps for different reasons.

For overall acting ability and plot line I enjoyed LOTR more but then again everyone's entitled to their own opinion. No one is any more right or wrong than anyone else at the end of the day.

All the best..


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 21, 2005)

garreth Jacks said:
			
		

> ye and i am Macros the Black


 
I hated Macros right up until his demise, where after I thought he was fantastic.  Don't want to say too much in case I spoil it for people who have not yet read the books.


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## Blue Mythril (Apr 21, 2005)

Ok, I'm jumping on the bandwagon sooo late here I know (and I'm being even naughtier by not reading the other posts  but here's my opinion anyway.

Firstly, to me it depends entirely upon what aspects of these two works we are dealing with here. Are you talking about the films? If so Star Wars owns LOTR as it was a new and original work that started a movement, where as LOTR the film trilogy was simply yet another manifestation of a work/ movement already set in motion decades ago. In that case I'd go with Star Wars.

However, being the age I am I automatically think of the first three films (or rather the last three) episodes 4, 5 6. These three films are the real Star Wars to me, Episodes 1, 2, and most likely 3, to me are just kiddied down preludes which lost all the character of the original work. So I guess if we are talking about the complete collection, well the Star Wars trilogy, to me, is brought very low by episodes 1 amd 2 (most likely 3 as well).
Which brings me to another point, if we are talking about complete works, LOTR has my vote completely. Tolkien's work was stella and innovative and so extensive... You've got LOTR, the Hobbit, the Silmarillion, Unfinished tales, half a dozen languages, and more appendixes than you can poke a stick at. Plus its just so damn readable and riveting. So LOTR gets my vore there.

However, after all that, I took the original poll to be between Star Wars and LOTR the film trilogies (as such I completely dismissed episodes 1 and 2 just because). So I voted Star Wars in the end.

(Though it was like I was acting against every natural instinct of  my being. )


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 21, 2005)

I've studied Eastern and Western philosophy and existentialism for about 25 years now.

Please explain what the real world is Eradius Lore.

I'm still fairly unsure.

Seriously.


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## Neon (Apr 21, 2005)

Wow this has gotten to be a very personal thread.  Eradius: just be content with the fact that others don't like Star Wars as much as you do.  That's the nature of being an individual.  There's no reason to start personal attacks simply on the basis people don't agree with your point of view.  And this particularly applies to things such as movies/books where people have formed very differing ideas through their own tastes, experiences, etc.


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## ravenus (Apr 21, 2005)

Does anyone think an 18 years and above rating for the forum would help? This got seriously kiddish.


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 21, 2005)

yes, you have my vote.


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## Eradius Lore (Apr 21, 2005)

Neon said:
			
		

> Wow this has gotten to be a very personal thread. Eradius: just be content with the fact that others don't like Star Wars as much as you do. That's the nature of being an individual. There's no reason to start personal attacks simply on the basis people don't agree with your point of view. And this particularly applies to things such as movies/books where people have formed very differing ideas through their own tastes, experiences, etc.


 
this thread was made personal by other members of this forum. i am not trying to pull people on to my side i wish only to tell my opinion on these films. i am not a fanatic of star wars personally i think the newest ones are rubbish. as too "personal attacks" i was given an email stating that one of the members of this forum [(no names).......yet] said some very personal and nasty things about me just because i dont share his view. so this coment about living in the real world was aimed at him. im sorry if any others take any offence about what was wrote no harm intended!. but come on to tell you the truth it's books and films which have caused so much upset. can you see were im coming from? can you understand now why i wrote those things?


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## Tsujigiri (Apr 21, 2005)

Ourobouros.....

and I don't mean Our Rob or Ros...

Damn...where's that little padlock icon for this thread....I don't seem to have one...I hope someone does....before I begin to bleed from the eyes.....


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## Rane Longfox (Apr 21, 2005)

Hey, hey...

Calm down kiddies


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## Lacedaemonian (Apr 21, 2005)

If I was catholic I would feel guilty.  But I am not catholic and i don't feel guilty.  I await the bad karma that life will be sure to deliver my way.


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## littlemissattitude (Apr 22, 2005)

Okay kids (of all ages), enough is enough.  I've had requests to close this down and I think that's a pretty good idea.  So, thread locked.


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