# Lucy Liu is Dr Watson...



## Vertigo (Mar 2, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...osite-Jonny-Lee-Miller.html?ito=feeds-newsxml



Sorry but I think I'll stick to the Steven Moffat BBC version!


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## Interference (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh, good grief!

"Robert Doherty ..... the creator, known for his work on Star Trek Voyager and Tru Calling, is making Holmes’ best friend female...."

Well, with credentials like that, it will undoubtedly be faithful and respectful to the original idea.  The show should  run and run 

Ideas-wise, they've missed the boat - there is nothing they can do that will bear up favourably to comparison with _Sherlock_ and I am truly dubious that American audiences will take to it at all unless they turn it into a sit-com or a CSI-style forensics programme.  What in the world are they thinking of?

The only way I can think of that they will succeed with this blatant band-waggoning is if they abandon all connection with Doyle and make their Holmes an amnesiac time-traveller (revealed in Season Four after many enigmatic "flash-backs").


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## Ursa major (Mar 2, 2012)

> Now the fair sex really is Watson's department as Lucy Liu will play Sherlock Holmes' sidekick... as a woman


It could be worse: Lucy Liu could be playing Dr Watson... as a man.


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## thaddeus6th (Mar 2, 2012)

This just seems a bit silly to me.

They've missed the boat, then relocated Holmes to America, now they've given Watson a sex-change. Presumably Holmes will be addicted to coffee and play the saxophone to unwind.


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 2, 2012)

I'll wait and see.  Lucy Liu does quirky really well and might just pull it off.  If she hadn't been in Ally MacBeal it would've been a definite eww


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## Interference (Mar 2, 2012)

Watson doesn't have to be quirky, Anya.  Some of the best took the role seriously *grump*


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 2, 2012)

Interference said:


> Watson doesn't have to be quirky, Anya.  Some of the best took the role seriously *grump*



He doesn't have to be but if she is more quirky and Sherlock is less so it might work quite well.   I'm not saying it is a good thing, just reserving judgement.   Personally I'd have loved to see Peter MacNicol in the role but he doesn't seem to have ever been in the running.


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## The Ace (Mar 2, 2012)

Why is there never a tragic studio fire when you need one ?


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## paranoid marvin (Mar 2, 2012)

It's not the first time a character has changed sex in a 're-imagining' (Starbuck in BSG for example). Does it really matter?

I'll watch out for it , and it'll either be good or it won't. When Basil Rathbone played the role I considered it definitive (albeit in a contemporary setting). Then Brett Holmes comes along and proves the definitive period deerstalker-wearing sleuth. And then the recent Beeb series proves that (at times) Sherlock can be brought into the modern era of mobiles and laptops and still be enjoyable.

Personally I didn't think the recent films were great (although much better than they could have been) and the US just doesn't seem to 'get' British drama (Men In Tights was far more convincing than Costner's Hood). So I don't hold out much hope, but judging by some recent US series (Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire, and The Walking Dead), there is hope.


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## Dave (Mar 2, 2012)

I've nothing against re-interpretations of classics, and Holmes in New York with a female Watson would sound interesting usually. It is just that there has been so much Sherlock re-interpretation recently that I'm beginning to tire of it. Surely, there must be another series of books that is also out of copyright?


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## Interference (Mar 2, 2012)

AnyaKimlin said:


> I'm not saying it is a good thing, just reserving judgement.



And that's where I have to acknowledge your superior thoughtfulness and integrity.  Personally, I've already judged the series and they haven't even shown any yet 

You know, they could have just made a detective series and not bothered trying to hang the Holmes tag around its neck and possibly would have got away with it.  Instead, they're inviting complaining letters from hoards of purists who will watch it religiously just to nit-pick and lots and lots of bad press and adverse pre-publici-  Hold on.....

I think I'm beginning to get a handle on how the Hollywood TV exec's mind works.....


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## Ursa major (Mar 2, 2012)

Interference said:


> I think I'm beginning to get a handle on how the Hollywood TV exec's mind works.....


So you'll have noticed that their thought processes generate a lot of cents.


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 3, 2012)

I would kind of like to see a Cagney and Lacey version of Holmes and Watson.  I wondered if they wanted to avoid the homosexuality references rather than wanted to be politically correct and have a woman.   

I do like Lucy Liu though - most of that is because I loved Ally MacBeal and Ling was such a fun character.  Part of me can envisage this one working.


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2012)

Well, Holmes and Watson presumably use still the same bathroom, so that's something on which to build.


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 3, 2012)

Ursa major said:


> Well, Holmes and Watson presumably use still the same bathroom, so that's something on which to build.



Didn't watch Ally Macbeal lol ?  They had unisex toilets in that      Although they were very male and female in personalities there wasn't huge segregation between the sexes in it.

Ally MacBeal - The Unisex Bathroom

My slight reservation is I think Lucy Liu would actually have made a better Holmes - her character in Ally MacBeal is very similar to the Steven Moffat interpretation.  (maybe that is why I am kind of seeing this), but I struggle see her playing second fiddle.  She'd probably have made an exceptional Moriarty (an improvement on the UK one).


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2012)

The existence of the unisex bathroom is the only thing I've ever known about that show.


(Well, that other actress inadvertantly making her face look like a duck's was in the news, I suppose, but that wasn't necessarily show-related.)


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## Interference (Mar 3, 2012)

AnyaKimlin said:


> ....but I struggle see her playing second fiddle.



As we know, Holmes played fiddle quite well 

But you've actually hit on something that might have made me more interested in seeing this "version".  Casting Holmes as a woman would have been seriously intriguing.

I also wondered if the male-female dynamic might have been a focus-group decision to steer them clear of the tired old sexual-orientation theme.  Unfortunately I imagine that two or three seasons of will-they, won't-they will be the alternative we have to face instead, which is, for me, even more tedious and unexciting than are-they-or-aren't-they - which is a dull enough preoccupation.


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2012)

Regarding the 'will they, won't they'.... Presumably, in the last episode, they'll explain why they didn't: because of their sexual orientations.


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## Interference (Mar 3, 2012)

Ursa major said:


> Regarding the 'will they, won't they'.... Presumably, in the last episode, they'll explain why they didn't: because of their sexual orientations.



Though I thought only Lucy Liu had genes from that part of the world.


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 3, 2012)

I agree with that and that is my gripe with this casting - not that Watson is a woman, but the woman they cast would've made a fantastic Holmes.  Conan Doyle's Sherlock was so completely asexual and kind of transcended gender that I actually don't think it matters if he his played by a man or a woman.


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2012)

Don't worry about it, Inter: the whole show will have gone west by then; so far, indeed, that it'll be coming back round.


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## Interference (Mar 3, 2012)

And it'll be no occident 

I agree, Anja, that Doyle seemed to go to great lengths to, as it were, de-sex Holmes.  In fact, whatever the gender of the character, he or she would clearly have been far to focussed on their work to consider such dalliances as anything other than a distraction.


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## paranoid marvin (Mar 3, 2012)

Interference said:


> And it'll be no occident
> 
> I agree, Anja, that Doyle seemed to go to great lengths to, as it were, de-sex Holmes. In fact, whatever the gender of the character, he or she would clearly have been far to focussed on their work to consider such dalliances as anything other than a distraction.


 

Well back in Doyle's day , it would have been inconceivable for Watson to be anything bt a man; a woman as a sidekick would have been more science fiction than Verne's journey to the moon.


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## Abernovo (Mar 3, 2012)

As with others, I worry that this is just more jumping on the band wagon (studio execs: What do we make next? Sherlock Holmes is popular - we can make money with that!$$$), but I may be letting my cynicism run loose.

Time will tell, I suppose, but it would need to rely on more than the single quirk of Watson's character being changed to a woman. So, will there be a Mr Watson in the background?


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## Dave (Mar 3, 2012)

Abernovo said:


> ...(studio execs: What do we make next? Sherlock Holmes is popular - we can make money with that!$$$)...


But possibly not with two white men, heavens forsake they might be gay and living together!!! However, it is perfectly okay to make her a woman from a racial minority. That ticks all of their boxes and won't make half of America switch off. I may be being very cynical, but I was just reading about Rush Limbaugh (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17241803) and he just couldn't broadcast in the UK.


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2012)

Dave said:


> and he just couldn't broadcast in the UK.


To risk thread hijacking, that whole issue sounds bizarre; not because of the particular details of that situation - we've had vaguely similar arguments over, say, adoption agencies -  but the thought that the specifics of one's _health care _provision could be dependent on the moral view of one's employer.


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## AnyaKimlin (Mar 3, 2012)

I think if Rush Limbaugh lived in the UK he would be an oddity to be laughed at.    However we have that one with the gay rights that supported the 'cure' the gays lobby.   He seems to have pulled back from that.

OK now having derailed the thread I'm off to see what else is on chrons this morning ?


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## steve12553 (Mar 3, 2012)

I have been a Holmes fan for over half a century. I've watched Holmes outside the canon simply because I had seen all I could access that was made from the original stories and that's what was presented. The idea of bringing up something new with so many radical changes makes me cringe, but I will at least start to watch it. I really enjoy Lucy Lui as an actress but if the storie are littered with creeping political correctness I'm out. I enjoyed the interpretations where life was returned to Victorian England and crimes were solved without cell phones and modern forensics. Holmes (and Doyle as his creator) was way ahead in the forensics department but much of his detective work was done by hard work and very intense deductive reasoning. A good Holmes story has to be based on that rther than use technology to bail out the story.


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## Interference (Mar 3, 2012)

Dave said:


> But possibly not with two white men, heavens forsake they might be gay and living together!!! However, it is perfectly okay to make her a woman from a racial minority. That ticks all of their boxes and won't make half of America switch off. I may be being very cynical, but I was just reading about Rush Limbaugh (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17241803) and he just couldn't broadcast in the UK.



And so it's clear the Republicans are doing everything they can to avoid the presidency.  They obviously don't think the economy is recovering yet.

And back OT:

Of course!  A minority ethnic Holmes and a minority ethnic Watson solving the problems of New York!  It has international appeal.

On the question of whether or not there will be a Mr Watson, can you imagine the RL repercussions of such a triangle?  And can you imagine how Hollywood would treat it?

Oh, despair, thy name is television....


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## Dave (Mar 21, 2012)

Steven Moffat 'annoyed' at American version of Sherlock


> "The bigger problem for us with Elementary is, what if it's terrible? What if it's awful? Then it degrades the brand," he said. "I remember there was a legitimate American version made of Coupling, actually adapted from our version. It was terrible and it was a disaster and it did sort of diminish the original. So if there's this completely unrelated rogue version of Sherlock going around and it's bad, it can be bad for us."


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## Interference (Mar 21, 2012)

So now Holmes is a Moffat brand?  Big-headed much?


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## Connavar (Mar 21, 2012)

He has a point people might confuse the american version with the current brit version.  

Although i dont agree that this new series can hurt Sherlock series rep.  I will act like this american version done by low level american tv creators (far from the quality of HBO,Boardwalk Empire and co) does not exist at all.

I also see online many american viewers adore Sherlock.


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## Interference (Mar 21, 2012)

He has a point up to a point, perhaps, but surely an industry that has produced thousands or more hours of celluloid and video tape about this one character carries its own pedigree.


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## Connavar (Mar 21, 2012)

Interference said:


> He has a point up to a point, perhaps, but surely an industry that has produced thousands or more hours of celluloid and video tape about this one character carries its own pedigree.



Also it can never hurt Holmes/Doyle.  If they have survived terrible adaptation as the RDJ hobo Holmes some american low level crime show wont be a thing.

I think he underrates Sherlock Holmes fans in US/outside UK by comparing Sherlock to Coupling which is a fine cult series but the original Coupling is hardly as popular as Sherlock Holmes.


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## Interference (Mar 21, 2012)

I never saw _Coupling_, so can't comment, but I doubt it has the history behind it that Holmes has 

I am among those present who think that the Moffat/Gatiss team has achieved something miraculous and enduring in their adaptation of the Doyle legacy.  I'm sure most viewers will look at the curiosity of the U.S. attempt to produce something of equal genius and entertainment value and see it for what it is.

Unless, that is, there are a couple of genius writers and Holmes aficionadi at the helm


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## Connavar (Mar 21, 2012)

Interference said:


> I never saw _Coupling_, so can't comment, but I doubt it has the history behind it that Holmes has
> 
> I am among those present who think that the Moffat/Gatiss team has achieved something miraculous and enduring in their adaptation of the Doyle legacy.  I'm sure most viewers will look at the curiosity of the U.S. attempt to produce something of equal genius and entertainment value and see it for what it is.
> 
> Unless, that is, there are a couple of genius writers and Holmes aficionadi at the helm



Im a Holmes purist who adore the new Sherlock because it has captured the character from the stories in modern setting.  I have Jeremy Brett as other fav,will see other old versions.

I have no interest in American Holmes.  The brit tv versions is enough for me. I dont get why everything to be translated to American audiences these days.


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## Vertigo (Mar 21, 2012)

Don't forget that Moffat is probably not worried about losing UK viewers. We have already had and enjoyed two series so he is probably secure here.

His worry is going to be how it might affect international sales of Sherlock, because that is, I believe, where the real money is made. They had a comment on Radio 4 the other day saying that the money earned by a good young children's tv series can easily beat the total money taken by a successful Hollywood blockbuster.


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