# Vikings (TV series)



## JoanDrake

Okay, mainly a historical but I think it can be stretched to be SF as the Viking use of the Sunboard and Sunstone are not yet proven. Also gets into how the ships were invented and made.

Absolutely great story. Indications are it's possibly Game of Thrones but real. Also no 1 in its premiere and that was against American Idol.

Katherine Wikken plays a shield maiden and she's great. She was on Craig Ferguson last night and when he tried some Gaelic on her she gave him a few sentences in Ukrainian. I think I have a new candidate for sexiest language.


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## Connavar

No 1 in USA?   Do they care about historical vikings.

I was impressed by the story and the serious tone.  It has alot of promise.  As long as they keep the realness of it.  Its by the same creator as Tudors it can become real good.


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## Brian G Turner

What? When? Where?!


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## Dave

Not aware of this TV show either but...


JoanDrake said:


> I think it can be stretched to be SF as the Viking use of the Sunboard and Sunstone are not yet proven.


You will therefore be interested in this...
Viking Sunstone Found in Shipwreck

edit: And also here:
http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/540152-researchers-we-may-have-found-a-fabled-sunstone.html
Harpo beat me to it!


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## clovis-man

I said:


> What? When? Where?!


 
In the U.S. it plays on Sunday evenings on the History channel. But you should be able to watch all the episodes on line here: http://www.history.com/shows/vikings

As an anthropologist by training, I have to say that aside from some dramatic license, it appears to be a pretty good portrayal of that particular set of historic circumstances. And it is well filmed and presented.


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## Brian G Turner

I'm not able to access the content so I'll check my Sky listings for the History Channel. 

EDIT: Hm, strange - nothing in the UK: http://www.history.co.uk/shows.html


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## ctg

This is wonderful series. I have watched six episodes so far and the series just gets better further it goes. You can expect to see long boats, raids, Kingdom of North Cumberland, fascinatingly accurate life in the Viking communities and of course a clash between Christianity and Nordic religions.


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## clovis-man

After the Viking Burial episode, I feel like the story can now get moving. 

Spoilers: Got both the Gabriel Byrne character and the annoying little baldheaded weasel out of the way. Now we can raid England and beat up on their misanthropes also.

I kept wondering where I had seen the actress who plays Siggy before. Turns out she was the nasty ex-wife of Mr. Schuester in Glee. Who knew?


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## Parson

I have been enjoying the series too. A bit bloody for my taste, but the story and that action is very believable. Tonight's episode has left me wanting to see what will happen next in Scandinavia and if the new Earl's lady is going to be the true ruler, or perhaps deposed for being unable to bear another child?


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## ctg

This is so much better than the Game of Thrones even if the king of North Cumberland is a bit cheesy. And as much as I know all traditions, customs and styles are historically correct. 



			
				Parson said:
			
		

> Tonight's episode has left me wanting to see what will happen next in  Scandinavia and if the new Earl's lady is going to be the true ruler, or  perhaps deposed for being unable to bear another child?



Surely she's able to carry another child as why a miscarriage would stop her being fruitful?


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## Parson

ctg said:


> Surely she's able to carry another child as why a miscarriage would stop her being fruitful?



Well, I guess its something I've been thinking about since almost the beginning. They only have 2 older children and are obviously umm.. active. It's the tenth century so the likely answer is that she has difficulty carrying to term. We now have the prophecy of "lots of sons" and we have the former earl's wife in the house, so its not difficult to see something stirring there. Then we have the plotting brother and with the former Earl's wife to stir the mix even further. 

(If you notice, I have a terrible time remembering and spelling the names of the characters and so I speak of them by their positions in the story.)


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## ctg

I'm really intrigued to see where does this lead as historically it was vikings, who build up York after they conquered the city from King Beothric. See this, 



> The first account of the Vikings appearing in England was in 787 on the south  				coast. They were greeted by the Saxon King Beorhtic,  				who they immediately killed. After the Vikings famously sacked the  				monastery and slaughtered the Christian monks at Lindisfarne in 793, they were feared throughout  				England. The Saxons defended themselves as best they could, but  				the Viking dragon ships, displaying their dreaded flag of a  				black raven on a blood red background, continued to raid English  				towns and churches.
> 
> 
> In 866, the Danish Vikings' _Great Army_ arrived in East  				Anglia. Unlike the previous raiding parties, many Viking leaders  				had combined their forces with the intention of conquering  				England, or at least taking one or more of the four main Anglo Saxon  				kingdoms (Northumberland in the North, Mercia in the Midlands,  				Wessex in the South and East Anglia in the East). King Edmund, the Anglo Saxon king of the kingdom of  				East Anglia, dared not fight them and bought peace, but the  				Vikings had bigger plans and their army marched on York.
> 
> 
> At the time, York was the capital of the kingdom  				of Northumberland. Northumberland was in civil war, with two rival  				kings vying for the throne. It may have been this that attracted  				the Vikings, who may have sought to take advantage of their  				squabbles. However, the Saga of Ragnar Lodbrok claims that the  				Vikings deliberately targeted York to avenge the father of the  				two Viking leaders, Ivar and Halfdan (Halfdene), who one of the rival  				Anglo Saxon kings had cruelly murdered by casting him into a  				poisonous snake pit.


 http://www.yorkvikingwalk.com/viking_conquest_of_york.htm


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## Nerds_feather

JoanDrake said:


> Okay, mainly a historical but I think it can be stretched to be SF as the Viking use of the Sunboard and Sunstone are not yet proven. Also gets into how the ships were invented and made.
> 
> Absolutely great story. Indications are it's possibly Game of Thrones but real. Also no 1 in its premiere and that was against American Idol.
> 
> Katherine Wikken plays a shield maiden and she's great. She was on Craig Ferguson last night and when he tried some Gaelic on her she gave him a few sentences in Ukrainian. I think I have a new candidate for sexiest language.



I'm enjoying the show a lot, and they do get a lot of things right about Vikings (dress, battle tactics, role of women, etc.). 

However, this just makes the things they get wrong all the more glaring. The Jarl is really a mafia don, complete with consigliere, and mostly succeeds in controlling everything. This is just not how authority worked in pre-Christian and early-Christian Scandinavia--Jarls were big men with big followings and big tracts of land, who could afford to sponsor viking expeditions and could draw up relatively large groups of armed men (and women) when needed. But they did not, in any way, shape or form, determine who gets to raid where, or take all the spoils. Their power (and the power of kings) was circumscribed, to an even greater degree than it was in feudal Europe.


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## Nerds_feather

As for the actual historical accuracy of the story...not so much. 

Ragnar Lothbruk is, historically speaking, almost certainly not real. Or rather, the legendary Ragnar is a mix of three different people--Ragnall, who helped found the viking settlement in Normandy (and whose brother was Rollo, as in the story); Ragnar son of Sigurd/Siegfried, a legendary figure who probably never existed or did in some form but in the distant past; and the Ragnar who settled in England and was supposedly killed by King Aela of Northumbria. 

None of these figures raided the monastery at Lindesfarne. 

Still, if you take the show as well-written and highly stylized fiction that gets closer to Viking reality than almost any treatment on film or TV (though that's not saying much), then it's quite good.


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## Daggers

Interesting, I haven't watched this. In fact this is the first I've heard of it (which is odd because I do like me some Vikings).

Looking at the character list on IMDB. We have Rollo, who as some of you may know was a direct ancestor of William the Conqueror and founder of the Principality of Normandy in 911. "Knut" I'm assuming is Cnut the great who nearly succeeded in conquering England in it's entirety in 1016. 

With this in mind, I'm guessing historical accuracy was far from top of the list when they decided to write the series. However if it stands to be anything. It'll be damn good TV. I'll be looking into where and when I can watch it over here!


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## clovis-man

Nerds_feather said:


> Ragnar Lothbruk is, historically speaking, almost certainly not real. Or rather, the legendary Ragnar is a mix of three different people--Ragnall, who helped found the viking settlement in Normandy (and whose brother was Rollo, as in the story); Ragnar son of Sigurd/Siegfried, a legendary figure who probably never existed or did in some form but in the distant past; and the Ragnar who settled in England and was supposedly killed by King Aela of Northumbria.


 
The name Ragnar gets tossed about quite a bit in story and in film. The composite in the History Channel series will probably wind up being the one murdered by the Northumbrian king. And Rollo is likely destined for more than just the disgruntled brother as a player in the drama.

In 1958 there was a big production film called *The Vikings* starring Kirk Douglas and Tony Curtis with Ernest Borgnine playing the part of the Viking leader named (you guessed it) Ragnar. It was based on a book by Edison Marshall which was, in turn derived from legends about Ragnar Lodbrok who, as it seems to go, "had many sons". In the book, the nasty Viking (Kirk Douglas) was called "Hasting Maidenface" a tongue-in-cheek reference to his disfigured mug. You can see how this all might play out. The possibilities are endless. I do expect the captured priest to play a more prominent role in, perhaps, a sociological/historical context. Unless, of course, they bump him off in tonight's episode.


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## Parson

Well, I know nothing of (as good as nothing) about Viking religion. Tonight's episode had Ragnar's "tribe" offering a human sacrifice. And he was one of nine human's sacrificed. I wouldn't be surprised if the worship of Thor et. al. had some human sacrifice involved but I find 9, especially 9 warriors as portrayed in the episode to be way over the top. Is there any historical accuracy to that?

Of, course I identify with the priest in this series, and from that level alone this is good T.V. (But I couldn't watch the sacrifice scenes. UGH!!!)


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## Nerds_feather

Parson said:


> Well, I know nothing of (as good as nothing) about Viking religion. Tonight's episode had Ragnar's "tribe" offering a human sacrifice. And he was one of nine human's sacrificed. I wouldn't be surprised if the worship of Thor et. al. had some human sacrifice involved but I find 9, especially 9 warriors as portrayed in the episode to be way over the top. Is there any historical accuracy to that?



It's not known, but it's doubtful. The only "evidence" of human sacrifice is from the writings of Adam of Bremen, a Christian priest who traveled to Sweden and claimed there were human sacrifices at the holy grounds of Uppsala. But there is exactly ZERO archeological proof for this from excavations at Uppsala, and no evidence from rune stones or Icelandic sagas to suggest this occurred. In all likelihood, Adam of Bremen was just telling lurid stories to his fellow Christians back in Germany.

That said, the other form of human sacrifice featured in an earlier episode, where a slave girl is ceremonially killed so she could be buried with her master, is better established. The Arab historian Ibn Fadlan, who traveled extensively with the Rus (Swedish Vikings in present-day Russia and the Ukraine), wrote about this, and there are two instances of apparent archaeological evidence for this (one in Russia and one in Norway). However, even if true, it's not known how widespread the practice was or for how long it was practiced (and it couldn't have been that widespread, seeing how little evidence of it there is). But it's generally assumed to have been something that was done at least occasionally.


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## clovis-man

Good summation, Nerds. Plenty of speculation, but no real evidence. Makes you wonder why the History Channel countenanced this addition to the "story". Well, just one more episode now. It would seem that enough will be left up in the air to justify another season.


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## Nerds_feather

clovis-man said:


> Good summation, Nerds. Plenty of speculation, but no real evidence. Makes you wonder why the History Channel countenanced this addition to the "story". Well, just one more episode now. It would seem that enough will be left up in the air to justify another season.



Thanks! And, as far as the History Channel is concerned, they've definitely taken liberties with history. 

For example, the conceptualization of power and authority of the Jarl, as portrayed in the show, is deeply at odds with what we know, and Ragnar, as portrayed, is basically a super-Viking--responsible for basically every major Viking event or achievement of the late 8th and early 9th centuries. I've struggled to not get too nerd-ragey about these things, and have generally managed to enjoy the show nevertheless, but they still annoy the hell out of me.

...that said, I'd be thrilled if the show got renewed. Problems aside, it's still one of the best shows around!


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## Parson

Nerds_feather said:


> It's not known, but it's doubtful. The only "evidence" of human sacrifice is from the writings of Adam of Bremen, a Christian priest who traveled to Sweden and claimed there were human sacrifices at the holy grounds of Uppsala. But there is exactly ZERO archeological proof for this from excavations at Uppsala, and no evidence from rune stones or Icelandic sagas to suggest this occurred. In all likelihood, Adam of Bremen was just telling lurid stories to his fellow Christians back in Germany.
> 
> That said, the other form of human sacrifice featured in an earlier episode, where a slave girl is ceremonially killed so she could be buried with her master, is better established. The Arab historian Ibn Fadlan, who traveled extensively with the Rus (Swedish Vikings in present-day Russia and the Ukraine), wrote about this, and there are two instances of apparent archaeological evidence for this (one in Russia and one in Norway). However, even if true, it's not known how widespread the practice was or for how long it was practiced (and it couldn't have been that widespread, seeing how little evidence of it there is). But it's generally assumed to have been something that was done at least occasionally.


 
Thanks! I've been a part of this forum for years and the depth of knowledge around here continues to astound me.


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## Connavar

I actually took an archeological course that focused on Nordic history around Viking age and i think the teachers, scholars would have mentioned if there were clear historical evidence for human sacrifice. 

Yeah i saw in the first two eps that ironically History Channel has show that is too mythical, fictional about historical period like viking age, the way people lived then.  Should be easy to make it more historically accurate if they wanted.  More fiction than history is cheaper, easier way to write good drama like this.

Shame i wish this was historical realistic as say HBO Rome and then had good fiction story too.


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## clovis-man

Well, if anyone is going to suffer from withdrawal after the final episode this Sunday, you can watch the entire 1958 film with Kirk Douglas et al on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFes1Rl2l0Q

Or you can read about whether previous efforts to put such things on film were worthwhile (Outrageous price notwithstanding ):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/078646044X/?tag=brite-21

One might more fully appreciate the History Channel version of things by comparison.


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## REBerg

Taking slaves? Slaughtering unarmed clerics? Ensuring that a down-and-out rival stays down by slashing his wrist? Sacrificing humans?

Wow! I knew that my Norwegian ancestors were bold and adventuresome, but I had no idea that they were quite so bloodthirsty. They're putting Minnesota's NFL team to shame.

I am loving this series. Historically accurate or not, it's highly entertaining television.

I've downloaded the Fever Ray opening credits ditty, “If I Had a Heart.” Sounds great on my car sound system.


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## Parson

There is no doubt that the opening song is absolutely spot on. I would sometimes watch the beginning of the show a second time just to hear that song.


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## svalbard

Season 1 began airing on the National Broadcastern RTE in Ireland a couple of weeks ago. I have waited patiently for it since first reading about the show on these forums and it is not a disappointment. The cast is good, the scenes beautifully shot and the storyline is engaging.

The only bum note is the characterisation of Earl Haralsson. His type of tryannical rule just doesn't ring true for the period. An example is his killing of the blacksmith. It just would not have happened. A blacksmith would have been one of the most essential people in the settlement and not easily replaced.

If the main character is based on the Ragner Lothbrok of legend then his eldest son Bjorn is destined to be the first recorded King of Sweden with another son Ivarr the Boneless going on to rule as King of Dublin and I am sure another of Ragnar's sons became the King of York. If the series is following the storyline of that Ragnar Lothbrok then it has plenty of legs in it for a long running series.


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## Parson

Season 2 is about to start in the States. End of February I believe. I have looked forward to this for a long time. Not always so patiently.


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## Nerds_feather

REBerg said:


> Taking slaves? Slaughtering unarmed clerics? Ensuring that a down-and-out rival stays down by slashing his wrist? Sacrificing humans?
> 
> Wow! I knew that my Norwegian ancestors were bold and adventuresome, but I had no idea that they were quite so bloodthirsty.



FTR the human sacrifice thing probably never happened. The story comes from a Christian monk named Adam of Bremen who lived in Birka among Swedish Vikings. He was, of course, writing for a continental Christian audience, and many historians assume he was exaggerating the "savagery factor" for dramatic effect (like Marco Polo), as well as argue for the "moral superiority" of continental Christianity. 

There are no Viking records of human sacrifices to the gods, and there is no archaeological evidence of it either.

There is, however, some very limited evidence for the ritual sacrifice of a female thrall (an indentured worker, often taken in battle or a duel, but who had more rights than slaves in other contexts) at the death of her master. Limited as in, there are a couple mentions in Viking records and one piece of archaeological evidence. It is not clear at all how widespread this practice was.


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## svalbard

I think there are more records of human sacrifice amongst the Vikings than just Adam of Bremen and ibn Fadlan. Not too sure of the sources but I believe archaeological evidence at Uppsala backs Adam up and there are hints in Norse Sagas of the practice of human sacrifice. Again I will have to look it up because it is litterally decades since I last read about this stuff in any meaningful way.


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## Nerds_feather

svalbard said:


> I think there are more records of human sacrifice amongst the Vikings than just Adam of Bremen and ibn Fadlan. Not too sure of the sources but I believe archaeological evidence at Uppsala backs Adam up and there are hints in Norse Sagas of the practice of human sacrifice. Again I will have to look it up because it is litterally decades since I last read about this stuff in any meaningful way.



There is zero archaological evidence of human sacrifice at Gamla  Uppsala--whereas there is plenty of evidence of the sacrifice of  animals. The bodies taken from bogs in Denmark and elsewhere that  indicate sacrifice are all from well before the Viking age. 

There are also no Scandinavian written accounts in the sagas of human sacrifice, except for one from the Ynglinatal--which is a mytho-religious history of the kings of Sweden, and as such is very different from the rest of the Heimskringla and other sagas, which told of events that had been personally witnessed. 

As far as written accounts by non-Scandinavians go, there is Adam of Bremen's account of the sacrifice at Gamla Uppsala and then there is Ibn Fadlan's account of the sacrifice of a thrall woman at the death of her master.


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## svalbard

There is also the writings of Ahmad ibn Rustah from later in the 10th century who describes human sacrifice  practiced by the Rus and he also mentions hanging as a method of sacrifice which backs up Adam of Bremens accounts.


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## Nerds_feather

svalbard said:


> There is also the writings of Ahmad ibn Rustah from later in the 10th century who describes human sacrifice  practiced by the Rus and he also mentions hanging as a method of sacrifice which backs up Adam of Bremens accounts.



As far as I know, the only passage of Ibn Rustah about human sacrifice relates to the funeral of prominent figures--not to the religious sacrifices described by Adam of Bremen. 

As I mentioned, there is archaeological evidence for this as well--the question that no one knows the answer to is how widespread the practice was, either over time or space.


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## clovis-man

The series resumes next week. An article about one of the characters introduced late last year:

Actress Sutherland went on quest for 'Vikings' knowledge | Entertainment | FresnoBee.com


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## ralphkern

I'm very much looking forwards to the second series. Whilst I wouldn't say that it has quite the charisma (if that's the correct word) of say Spartacus, it certainly is more than just a low budget cash in.

I'm also looking forwards to getting stuck into Black Sails, especially after just polishing off playing Assassins Creed: Black Flag.


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## Camorra

Just saw the first episode of the second season and loved it.


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## ctg

Vikings are back and they are raiding Wessex this time. But this time there aren't as much mythology in the play as what there were in the first series. For example you would be hell bent on seeing shadowy figure of Odin standing at the banks of fjord, looking west towards the Britannia. However, you'll see Ragnar carrying a raven on his shoulder as he sets the sails, and crosses the Northsea during the winter storm to get flushed down past the Dower hills into channel of England. 

Wessex is portrayed as a lovely lush countryside as it is, but I'm surprised they found that much of woods, when most of it has disappeared over the centuries. And I wouldn't be surprised if the shooting location is different than the south-west coast, where the raiders are this time. 

I am quite surprised and delighted about the details History Channel producers have dropped into the this story, and I'm positively pleased about the story rolling fluidly forward. The Vikings is well put together series that I'd heartily recommend to anybody whose interested on the proper historical dramas. Also in the same time the Vikings presents something we have rarely seen in the small screen, as they have taken time and effort to prop up something that hasn't been hugely popular in the past. There just hasn't been anything but Sherwood forests or Camelot's knights, but now we have something that at least gives viewers a portrayal about what was it like with the 700 to 800 century Scandinavian culture.


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## JoanDrake

I absolutely loved this one part in the most recent episode. 


 Spoiler


The King who Ragnar left behind (I can't remember the names either) goes to the Blind Wise Man to ask about his future after he has taken over Ragnar's lands in his absence. The Wise Man says he sees an eagle in his future, and he take this as a good sign,


They are telescoping a lot, but I've not seen medieval historical fiction yet that doesn't do that some.


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## clovis-man

Some of the series' battle sequences have looked like paintball contests gone wrong and the most recent episode pretty much reaches the epitome of blood-thirsty events. But who's complaining?


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## Parson

I will say that the battle scenes leave an awfully lot to be desired in terms of strategy and tactics. ........ But maybe that's the way they did it. Every man (woman) for himself in one on one combat. They were clearly not learning from the Greek insights if they were.


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## Connavar

Parson said:


> I will say that the battle scenes leave an awfully lot to be desired in terms of strategy and tactics. ........ But maybe that's the way they did it. Every man (woman) for himself in one on one combat. They were clearly not learning from the Greek insights if they were.



Its the dark middle ages in Europe where there were hardly the genius military tactics of ancient empires and between later time in Europe when there were powerful kingdsoms with knights, trained soldiers.  

There must be some tactics since Vikings raided, conquered for centuries before their age, promince would be broken in 1066.  I doubt they changed the history of most of Northern, western Europe by simple charging the enemy armies blindly.  This is a tv show after all and bloody dumb action is more entertaining.   Although in real world history they conquered mostly because the small kingdoms of Britain, Franks etc was small, weak.


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## Connavar

ctg said:


> There just hasn't been anything but Sherwood forests or Camelot's knights, but now we have something that at least gives viewers a portrayal about what was it like with the 700 to 800 century Scandinavian culture.



This is why i like this show despite some weird things that isnt historically correct like the the hairstyle of Ragnar, the gangster like power of The Earl in season 1.  They show pretty well the way people lived in Scandinavia in 700s-800s even outside the historical hype,legend of the Vikings raids themselves.

The harsh farm life, bad farmlands that made it hard for people.  Plus its good to have a more historical realistic look in important part of European history.  Big important countries like England, France, Germany was affected by what happened in Viking Age.   It is always fascinating how a small number of people can change the history of a continent.   Like later Mongols in Asia.  Just come up with something new like the viking longships.


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## Rek

Hi I saw the thread and it sounds good so I have just been onto ebay to order the 1st series for a tenner - sounds to me like it should be good value for money. Can't wait for it to arrive and watch for myself.


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## ctg

I have liked the second series a bit more than I liked the first one even though it has been filled with battles, and the main theme has been mostly a betrayal. In some ways what the producers showed in the previous season was like a soft feathery pillow, while the cruel depictions of Viking ways in this one has been far worse than the human sacrifice to Odin. 

And for some reason I cannot understand all the fighting Vikings had between them. Why would they had done it? Why would they had depleted their ranks from able bodied warriors and explorers that went all the way down Volka to bring back secret of crucible steel from the Southern Asia?  

It just doesn't make sense. Just like it doesn't make sense that they'd no clear battle plans against English lords. To me it is almost as if the producers are trying their best to show that the intelligence and wisdom Vikings possessed was nothing. And in the same time they're making Scandinavia to look as if there's no good farmland, when in fact Southern Sweden was as good land to produce crops as what you find from England. 

But what has also been interesting in this season has been the way how they have showed Gods playing with the lives of men. How through many different symbolic visuals it feels as if Earth is filled with Gods. Gods that granted different things depending on where the prayers originated from, all while they even deepened the field and made it look as Roman Gods lost their way, when it was their empire that broke apart. 

But the thing is, they are also making Romans to look as if they been away for thousand years, when in fact the old Rome died around middle of ninth century. So does anyone have a good idea about when this series is happening? 

Also does anyone know if Floki is actually betraying Ragnar or is he just playing a role?


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## REBerg

ctg said:


> Also does anyone know if Floki is actually betraying Ragnar or is he just playing a role?



Gustaf Skarsgard's portrayal of Floki is a treat.

He steals every scene, and he's been getting a lot more of them in season 2. While watching “The Lord's Prayer,” I couldn't tell which side he was on – right up until the final few minutes.

Floki is my favorite character in this series.


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## Locksmith

Not quite sure how or why I missed Vikings before, but gave it a go earlier on Amazon and now 3 episodes in! Must do something more productive...


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## ctg

Vikings is back. Haven't watched it but I just noticed a review on first episode. I don't know how it managed to slip under the radar.


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## clovis-man

ctg said:


> Vikings is back. Haven't watched it but I just noticed a review on first episode. I don't know how it managed to slip under the radar.



Yep. It's back. And we're already into lots of palace intrigue (both in Scandinavia and in the British Isles). Should be fun.


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## ZombieWife

Great first episode.  I laughed out loud at Floki. 

Sweet Lagertha.  I love Her!


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## clovis-man

Of course, we don't know how long this saga will be allowed to unfold. But I'm already wondering what version will be unearthed to portray Ragnar's ultimate demise. Not to mention wondering if there will ultimately be any follow-through about Ivar "The Boneless", who is an infant in the current story timeline.

All kinds of possibilities!


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## svalbard

It was a solid first episode. I love Linus Roche as the Saxon king. As clovis-man says there are lots of possibilities for this series.


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## markpud

I binge-watched the first 2 seasons a couple of months ago, and am now settled in for season 3. Intrigued to see how it progresses.

In terms of this weeks battle on English soil...


Spoiler



Did the Murcians think the Vikings would split their force to attack both sides at once? Didn't seem logical to me?


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## ZombieWife

I was wondering that, mark.  Or perhaps they weren't aware that the longships were so fast?  And could swerve away?  I'm confused on the tactics there...


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## Wo7f

I didn't read anything above yet. Don't want any spoilers. I've missed the first two episodes.  But I have them recorded now and plan on watching them tonight. I loved the first two seasons. Ragnar is awesome! I'm also liking Bjorn and seeing his character mature. Floki is hilarious and dangerous at the same time. It was also interesting watching Athelstan being pulled from Priest to Viking. Can't wait to watch the new season and join in on the conversation.


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## markpud

Althelstan's had a really interesting progression for sure.



Spoiler: S03E02



Magic mushrooms, amputations and amorous Kings!


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## clovis-man

Wo7f said:


> Floki is hilarious and dangerous at the same time.



Some reference is made to a "trickster" in the first two episodes this season. If you remove the "F" from his name, he becomes Loki the quintessential Norse trickster. Maybe not just happenstance.


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## Wo7f

markpud said:


> In terms of this weeks battle on English soil...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Murcians think the Vikings would split their force to attack both sides at once? Didn't seem logical to me?


Exactly what I was thinking. They're not very smart if they thought that's what the Vikings were going to do.



clovis-man said:


> If you remove the "F" from his name, he becomes Loki the quintessential Norse trickster.


For a long while, I had trouble figuring out if they were saying Loki like the god or Floki. I kept thinking it was Loki. Lol!


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## markpud

F-loki is definitely intentional! Having spent half of last season seeming as though he was going to betray Ragnar, things seem to be moving in that direction again? He certainly doesn't like fighting other people's battles.



Spoiler



Kevin Durand aka the mysterious stranger with power over dreams/sick babies is seeming to further blur the lines of the mystical power of the Norse. Shame to see Lagatha go...


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






markpud said:


> Kevin Durand aka the mysterious stranger with power over dreams/sick babies is seeming to further blur the lines of the mystical power of the Norse.



I think he's the All Father and the woman on ice, his wife Freya. And it's very obvious to me why because I know the lore.


----------



## markpud

Makes sense, thanks ctg!


----------



## clovis-man

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I think he's the All Father and the woman on ice, his wife Freya. And it's very obvious to me why because I know the lore.





Spoiler



Yes. In the Siegfried saga, Odin disguises himself as "The Wanderer"; something that the character calls himself.


----------



## REBerg

A deadly season



Spoiler



I was surprised to see two longtime cast members dispatched in such short succession: First Siggy, now Athelstan.

At least Siggy had a beautiful death scene; Athelstan, not so much. I wonder if Ragnar will immediately kill Floki in retaliation, or will he be a little too preoccupied with planning to invade Paris and getting revenge for the massacre of the colonists in England.

By the way, it seems that the correct answer, when you're asked if you have told anyone else some disturbing news, is “yes.”


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> A deadly season
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised to see two longtime cast members dispatched in such short succession: First Siggy, now Athelstan.
> 
> At least Siggy had a beautiful death scene; Athelstan, not so much. I wonder if Ragnar will immediately kill Floki in retaliation, or will he be a little too preoccupied with planning to invade Paris and getting revenge for the massacre of the colonists in England.
> 
> By the way, it seems that the correct answer, when you're asked if you have told anyone else some disturbing news, is “yes.”





Spoiler



Floki is indeed the benchmark Viking. Single of mind and purpose. His Nordic revelations parallel those Christian ones of Athelstan. All intentional for the story, I'm sure, which seems to mix almost equal parts history and mysticism.


----------



## ZombieWife

I don't necessarily think that Ragnar will assume it's Floki.  Everyone seemed to have a beef with Athelstan.  I do imagine Ragnar will find out, though. I think Ragnar will really go all out now, without Athelstan there to ground him a bit. 

And I wonder why he didn't tell everyone about the settlement.  Perhaps he wanted everyone to focus on France?  Or, didn't want to appear to be a bad leader?


----------



## markpud

Don't forget your spoiler tags please!



Spoiler



It was a shame to see Athelstan go. He was a great character acting as an audience cypher in the mysterious viking world he found himself, but I think he became much more than that over the course of the show. 

I too wonder if Ragnar will go back to Wessex to avenge the settlers, or push on with his raid on Paris? Will the other Earl's be on board with a return to England? Will they just start killing each other anyway - Lagertha at the front of that queue!


----------



## clovis-man

Spoiler



I thought it was interesting that Floki appeared to morph into a wolf shape when he walked through the village on his way to do in Athelstan. So nobody actually saw him and no specific retribution is hanging over his head (although I don't think he would care). On the other hand, Ragnar's ritualistic and bloody head-shaving may indicate that somebody besides him will live to rue the day.


----------



## ZombieWife

Sorry about no spoiler stuff.  It won't let me edit now.


----------



## REBerg

clovis-man said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was interesting that Floki appeared to morph into a wolf shape when he walked through the village on his way to do in Athelstan. So nobody actually saw him and no specific retribution is hanging over his head (although I don't think he would care). On the other hand, Ragnar's ritualistic and bloody head-shaving may indicate that somebody besides him will live to rue the day.





Spoiler



Floki's fate also rests on how intent Ragnar is on keeping the slaughter of the Viking colonists in Wessex under wraps. Floki is another loose end in that situation.


----------



## REBerg

The devious mind of Ragnar Lothbrok is a thing of beauty.



Spoiler



He knows full well that Floki whacked Athelstan. No need execute what might be an unpopular revenge killing, however.

Floki is clearly at edge of madness. Just put Floki in command of the Parisian invasion, and his delusions of grandeur take him right into downtown cuckooland.

If those longships sporting the new Floki Wall Breachers (patent pending) are successful, it will only happen because the Parisian soldiers are laughing too hard to defend the city.


----------



## markpud

Spoiler



It was a fun setup, and just brief mention of how they found their way all the way to Paris. The North Sea crossings have become so perfunctory they're barely shown any more, and this time they found it all the way south, and found the mouth of the Seine? That's some good seafaring skills 

Floki's creations are some kind of floating siege engines? Or just transported to the walls by boat I guess... 

Shame to be left in suspense until next season... I'll do a bit more wikipedia-ing on Viking's vs Paris meanwhile


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






markpud said:


> t was a fun setup, and just brief mention of how they found their way all the way to Paris. The North Sea crossings have become so perfunctory they're barely shown any more, and this time they found it all the way south, and found the mouth of the Seine? That's some good seafaring skills



No man, that's excellent navigational and scouting skills. But the thing is that Vikings used to make all the way down to arabia (through Volka) and France wasn't that unheard target for raids. Just take a map in your hand and you'll see that it isn't far stretch from England South Coast to France. So, it's not like they were sailing in completely unknown waters when they entered in channel, and steered south.


----------



## ctg

markpud said:


> Shame to be left in suspense until next season...



There is one more episode at least.


----------



## ctg

Two more episodes actually. So we'll get to see the bottom of Floki's saga. I'm also glad that the show isn't all about glorious wins and epic festivities in Viking longhouses, but we actually get to see them failing badly. 



> *Clive Standen, the actor behind Vikings' Rollo, talks to us about Norse mythology, fight scenes, and historical accuracy in drama...*
> 
> The History Channel's hit show _Vikings_, finishing up its third season and already looking to its fourth, tells the story of the first contact between the Northmen and the Christians of Western Europe. The series focuses heavily on King Ragnar Lothbrok, his (ex-)wife Lagertha, and brother and sometimes rival Rollo as they fight their way to power and across western Europe. Clive Standen, who portrays Rollo, talks with Den of Geek about Norse mythology, the pointlessness of sex and violence on-screen, and sibling rivalry on an epic scale


 http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/vikings...-3-interview-clive-standen-on-rollo-myth-more


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> If those longships sporting the new Floki Wall Breachers (patent pending) are successful, it will only happen because the Parisian soldiers are laughing too hard to defend the city.[/spoiler]



I think there is a precedent for this:
http://www.dailywav.com/sites/default/files/wavs/eldrbery.wav


----------



## REBerg

clovis-man said:


> I think there is a precedent for this:
> http://www.dailywav.com/sites/default/files/wavs/eldrbery.wav



lemon curry?
http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkaa7tNMgM1qjxv3ao1_1280.jpg


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> lemon curry?
> http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkaa7tNMgM1qjxv3ao1_1280.jpg


Ah, yes. Cleese the Horrible!


----------



## REBerg

What an amazingly rugged group of surviving central characters!


Spoiler



Ragnar bounces down a wall in a tumble that should have reduced him to a fleshy bag of broken bones; Rollo peacefully goes underwater after becoming mesmerized by the Parisian princess who doubles as her father's backbone; Bjorn is hauled home with a pair of crossbow bolts, neither of which seems to have pierced anything important, sticking out of his back; Lagertha is stopped one step short of being added to a new Parisian entree, Viking Shish Kabob on a Spear, by the guy who usurped her earldom and who she promises to kill one day, but not before they “enjoy” each other.

Nevertheless, everyone appears to be on board for another go at Paris.


As a longtime Green Bay Packers fan, I never imagined I would write this – Go Vikings!


----------



## REBerg

Oops!



Spoiler



Forgot to mention the cast member I most expected to bite the big one in the attack on Paris – Floki. He somehow managed to escape what was basically a flaming cage, although he seems to remain a little flummoxed at the realization he just might not be the emissary of the Gods he thought himself to be.


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> Oops!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Forgot to mention the cast member I most expected to bite the big one in the attack on Paris – Floki. He somehow managed to escape what was basically a flaming cage, although he seems to remain a little flummoxed at the realization he just might not be the emissary of the Gods he thought himself to be.





Spoiler



But I think Ragnar's declaration that he is a man of patience portends trouble ahead for Floki.


----------



## clovis-man

Has anyone else noticed that the Viking women always have perfect eye make-up, even in the heat of battle? Can't say the same for Floki.


----------



## REBerg

clovis-man said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the Viking women always have perfect eye make-up, even in the heat of battle? Can't say the same for Floki.


Must be the reason I didn't recognize Katheryn Winnick when she made a guest appearance on _Person of Interest_ -- less makeup. Floki definitely needs a professional makeover, or at least a lesson in mascara application.


----------



## REBerg

*Breaking Point S3:E9*



Spoiler



Holy rolling giant spiked yo-yo of death! The defenders of Paris are inventively serious about keeping conquering riffraff out of their fair city.

And the Vikings are serious about not taking their impending deaths seriously at all. I can't believe the Parisian beheading boys fell for that tired, old “hold my hair back, got your hand” ploy. Way to warm up the crowd, earl.

I guess Ragnar isn't quite as indestructible as I thought he was. The big question for the season finale: Will he go to Valhalla or Heaven? Floki clearly disapproved of Ragnar's impromptu baptism. His dance in the background as the ritual was performed was the greatest human impression of an insanely angry cat I have ever seen. I could swear I heard him hissing.


----------



## ZombieWife

yo yo of death wins best term ever


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> *Breaking Point S3:E9*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I guess Ragnar isn't quite as indestructible as I thought he was. The big question for the season finale: Will he go to Valhalla or Heaven?





Spoiler



I wonder if he will meet his end in the next episode or not. Historical records, such as they are, depict his demise in England, not France.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: REBerg, post: 1905741, member: 35090



Will he go to Valhalla or Heaven? Floki clearly disapproved of Ragnar's impromptu baptism. His dance in the background as the ritual was performed was the greatest human impression of an insanely angry cat I have ever seen. I could swear I heard him hissing.





Spoiler



He said, "I'm the King, not you, or you, or you, or you ... or you." And he's right, Ragnar should have lead those men in the first place instead of trusting that Floki would win the day. But in the other hand, he f***ed his kidneys really bad when he crashed down from Paris walls. Nevertheless it doesn't mean that he's not going to be rescued, as baptism in strongest terms is a rebirth. And ultimately resurrection. 

So the question is: will those tenth century physicians be able to give him aid and get him back on his feet, or will Ragnar go to see his "dear friend" in heaven? Or will he stay in the purgatory? 

In the biblical sense, he would go to heaven as a result of his impromptu baptism. And I doubt in story wise that he would be staying in catholic purgatory quite long as it would be so rewarding for the to see him meet his friend again. But ... 

...we saw in the last season final episode a magnificent spin. So in that sense, I would expect him to live and conquer the Paris even if sends Floki into the loonie bin.


BTW I saw a spider in him. Not a cat.


----------



## REBerg

How about we compromise and cast Floki as one of those rare and exotic Scandinavian Spidercats?

http://i.imgur.com/TH3ogpm.gif


----------



## ZombieWife

Historical Fiction.  Go figure.  I guess that sort of thing doesn't bother me.


----------



## ctg

ZombieWife said:


> Historical Fiction. Go figure. I guess that sort of thing doesn't bother me.



I guess something awfully wrong happened at the final episode.


----------



## ZombieWife

Naw.  Went as I suspected with a lot of it.  Just the above conversation about nitpicks.  I don't see this as accurate history, but historical fiction.  I mean, it's a drama with actors and a script.


----------



## ctg

Man, that was epic. There's not much I can say about the final to not spoil you.


----------



## REBerg

I tend to hope for this sort of thing in a lot of television/film offerings, but I totally did not expect it in this case.



Spoiler



Not only did Ragnar get his victory, but he got an earful of exactly how those in his inner circle regard him while he napped in his coffin. Really cool coffin, by the way. I guess his next funeral will be the more traditional, burning boat affair.

So much for his conversion to Christianity. His only victims were the clergy, not exactly paving his way to Heaven. Goodbye, Athelstan; Hello, Valhalla.

How about that Count “Marquis de Sade” Odo? Why, oh why, would Princess Gilsa not jump at the chance to have such a catch for her hubby? Who knows how many fun-filled ways he could whip up for her to hold his interest?

I loved the look on the emperor's face after Gilsa had vented her spleen directly in the face of her new fiance, Rollo. Rollo's, no doubt, painfully learned response in French: “I greet you?” Equally funny.

I think Rollo has learned his lesson in betraying his brother, so I don't expect him to keep his promise to defend Paris when Ragnar and his troops return in spring. In the meantime, why not enjoy his winter as a wealthy Frank duke married to the emperor's feisty daughter?



I am looking forward to next season with great anticipation. Thanks, History Channel, for not keeping me in suspense.


----------



## Vladd67

REBerg said:


> I tend to hope for this sort of thing in a lot of television/film offerings, but I totally did not expect it in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Not only did Ragnar get his victory, but he got an earful of exactly how those in his inner circle regard him while he napped in his coffin. Really cool coffin, by the way. I guess his next funeral will be the more traditional, burning boat affair.
> 
> So much for his conversion to Christianity. His only victims were the clergy, not exactly paving his way to Heaven. Goodbye, Athelstan; Hello, Valhalla.
> 
> How about that Count “Marquis de Sade” Odo? Why, oh why, would Princess Gilsa not jump at the chance to have such a catch for her hubby? Who knows how many fun-filled ways he could whip up for her to hold his interest?
> 
> I loved the look on the emperor's face after Gilsa had vented her spleen directly in the face of her new fiance, Rollo. Rollo's, no doubt, painfully learned response in French: “I greet you?” Equally funny.
> 
> I think Rollo has learned his lesson in betraying his brother, so I don't expect him to keep his promise to defend Paris when Ragnar and his troops return in spring. In the meantime, why not enjoy his winter as a wealthy Frank duke married to the emperor's feisty daughter?
> 
> 
> 
> I am looking forward to next season with great anticipation. Thanks, History Channel, for not keeping me in suspense.





Spoiler



You do know Rollo became Robert of Normandy and was an ancestor of William the Conqueror. The bit with the coffin was said to have been done by a Viking called Hastein, a companion of Bjorn Ironsides, in the city of Luna.


----------



## REBerg

Vladd67 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> You do know Rollo became Robert of Normandy and was an ancestor of William the Conqueror. The bit with the coffin was said to have been done by a Viking called Hastein, a companion of Bjorn Ironsides, in the city of Luna.


I did not know that.
I hate to make a case for ignorance, but my lack of knowledge about the early relationships of the Norsemen and other Europeans is what sustains my interest in _Vikings_ and similar historical dramas. If I were well-versed in the events of those times, I would only be surprised when the series deviated from what historians have reported. Where's the fun in that?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> So much for his conversion to Christianity. His only victims were the clergy, not exactly paving his way to Heaven. Goodbye, Athelstan; Hello, Valhalla.



I don't think Ragnar has exactly spent his time studying book and on how to be good Christian. He simply doesn't know any better. Especially not when all other Christians act like he does.



REBerg said:


> How about that Count “Marquis de Sade” Odo? Why, oh why, would Princess Gilsa not jump at the chance to have such a catch for her hubby? Who knows how many fun-filled ways he could whip up for her to hold his interest?



Indeed. Who knows what will happen, but at least we got a hint on what sort of mind invented the yo-yo-of-death.



REBerg said:


> In the meantime, why not enjoy his winter as a wealthy Frank duke married to the emperor's feisty daughter?



Yep, why wouldn't he when it was her on the wall, who got Rolo's attention in the first place.



I didn't knew my ancestors were also part of Paris. Man, they travelled a lot and went from getting secrets of steel at Persia to settling at shores of Western Canada. So even though the series portrays as mostly as raiders, we were nothing like it, but I have to say that this season has thought me about how bloody British history actually is when it comes to the establishment of monarchy in this country.

There is also "Janakkalan miekkamies" and his famous two swords that was found this year in Finland. In the case of second "cavalry" sword what we did in the past just gets better and better. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/finnish-swordsman-buried-two-blades_n_4304980.html


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> I didn't knew my ancestors were also part of Paris. Man, they travelled a lot and went from getting secrets of steel at Persia to settling at shores of Western Canada. So even though the series portrays as mostly as raiders, we were nothing like it, but I have to say that this season has thought me about how bloody British history actually is when it comes to the establishment of monarchy in this country.
> 
> There is also "Janakkalan miekkamies" and his famous two swords that was found this year in Finland. In the case of second "cavalry" sword what we did in the past just gets better and better. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/finnish-swordsman-buried-two-blades_n_4304980.html


Interesting link.

This series has been an eye-opener as far as learning just how far and wide Viking activities ranged. I actually checked on the history of Viking settlements in England because that storyline in the series seemed a bit improbable. I was surprised to learn that Scandinavians had a more than single-colony presence in what was to become the UK.

_Vikings_ has modified my perception of my ancestors as having been nothing more than bloodthirsty raiders. Many were farmers, including King Ragnar, as interested in acquiring agricultural land as bringing home pirated booty.

Looting and pillaging were just hobbies.


----------



## clovis-man

Spoiler



Well, I'm still holding out for the tale to include an English end to Ragnar's life, if the bulk of stories and legends are to be credited. Whether a pit of vipers or something else (wolves in the 1958 film, *The Vikings*), a follow-up would entail some revenge on the part of Ragnar's son, Ivar, who has been made well by "The Wanderer" (Odin, if you will) as an infant. Now we would be getting into some serious mythological territory here, perhaps even including some interaction with Nordic legends Siegfried and Brunhilde. But I must remind myself that this is being shown on The History Channel, after all.


----------



## svalbard

I haven't read the above posts. Trying to avoid spoilers, and I am a sucker for clicking on the spoiler tags (must have been a cat in a previous life). So far I am up as far as the attack on Paris. It was Epic TV. So much was going on, and all the while Ragnar was patiently watching, waiting and knowing what the result would be. 

Linus Roache as King Ecgfrith is the stand out performer in the series for me so far. Although the history is all over the place it is still pulling me in and I really hope it goes on for another few seasons to show the conflict between Ragnar's sons and Alfred.


----------



## ctg

> Finnish actors Peter Franzen (_The Gunman_) and Jasper Paakkonen (_Frozen Land, Secret Lives_) as well as Dianne Doan (_Once Upon a Time_) have joined the drama series created by Michael Hirst, _The Hollywood Reporter _has learned.
> 
> Franzen will play King Harald Finehair, a Scandinavian warrior and potential threat to Ragnar (Travis Fimmel). Paakkonen is set to play Halfdan the Black, Finehair's younger brother. Doan will portray Yidu, a new and unique Chinese character who will have a big role in season four.
> 
> Season four, already underway in Ireland, will feature a time jump of a "couple of years," Hirst told _THR _after the season three finale.


 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/vikings-season-4-spoilers-793610

Good to see Finnish brothers joining the Vikings.

'Vikings' Postmortem: Series Creator on Ragnar Twist and Season 4 Time Jump http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/vikings-ragnar-twist-season-4-790685


----------



## REBerg

*4.01 A Good Treason*

Rolo, Rolo, Rolo.



Spoiler



Ragnar thinks that No.1 Son Bjorn showed bad judgment when he left his uncle behind in Paris. Maybe the real mistake was to spare his brother's life after his first betrayal. Rolo's ambitions are thicker than blood, and Ragnar knows it. Ragnar obviously got the lion's share of the brains in that family.


Lagertha, Lagertha, Lagertha.



Spoiler



Hell hath fury like a woman whose non-spousal, co-command of a Viking earldom has been challenged. Poor Einer is pinned to a post by a crossbow bolt through the throat, bloodily gurgling out his last breaths, as Lagatha walks up him and saws off his manhood -- with a less than razor sharp knife, apparently. Cringeworthy.



Bjorn, Bjorn, Bjorn.



Spoiler



Outside of the battlefield, Bjorn seems an inept candidate to inherit Ragnar's throne. Beyond leaving the treason-prone Rolo in Paris, he has Floki arrested for the murder of Athelstan, putting just-emerged-from-a-coma Ragnar in the unwanted position of determining how to punish Floki. I'm wondering how long he will leave Floki chained to that post in the town square before he makes a decision.

Bjorn also abandons his infant daughter, opting to leave town after it seems that he can do no right in his daddy's eyes. He's right.


----------



## svalbard

Looking forward to this with great relish.


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> Looking forward to this with great relish.


Hold the relish. _Vikings_ goes better with lutefisk and lefsa -- washed down by Nøgne Ø Imperial Stout.


----------



## svalbard

Skal!


----------



## REBerg

*3.03 Mercy*

Storylines and locations are increasing exponentially this season -- Scandinavia, England, Paris, Bjorn Lothbrok's one-man survivor experience.



Spoiler



Bjorn beat the bear, but will he be able to beat the Berserker?

Ragnar finally released Floki from his punishment, but has Floki's insane spirit been broken?

Will Rollo ever bed his new Frank wife, or will she gut him in his sleep?

*key dramatic pause organ music*

Tune in next week, when the answers to one or more of these questions may be revealed.


----------



## svalbard

Anyone keeping up with this. Just finished watching Episode 20 Day of Reckoning. 2 more seasons planned according to Michael Hirst and with a death toll on GOT proportions who will survive to the end.

Jonathan Rhys Meyers had a brilliant introduction last night as Bishop Heramund.


----------



## REBerg

Dang! I missed the return of the series -- everything since Ragnar returned to Kattegat. I've got some catching up to do.
Thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## ctg

svalbard said:


> Anyone keeping up with this. Just finished watching Episode 20 Day of Reckoning. 2 more seasons planned according to Michael Hirst and with a death toll on GOT proportions who will survive to the end.
> 
> Jonathan Rhys Meyers had a brilliant introduction last night as Bishop Heramund.



I am, but this series I've reserved commentary mostly to me and Mrs Ctg. I don't want to spoil anybody else observations with my Viking heritage. I'm too biased.


----------



## svalbard

Yes, ctg, they have played fast and loose with the history of the time and shoehorned 200 years of events into a 30 year time period. However the show is still enjoyable.


----------



## ctg

The show is very lovely and to be honest, it has shown that we weren't completely ruthless bastards but actually quite cunning our ways. And there is a lot of heritage that we gave or rather forced on British people. It's just a lot of that history has been muddled by centuries of history. 

To me, learning about the English side has been totally eye opening. And a lot of these things happened a way before England conquered half of world and a became an Empire, while us the Viking went backwards and were mostly forgotten. Even pushed aside while the Europe and England flourished.


----------



## REBerg

Thanks to the upcoming season 5 slated this week, the History Channel has been running the last half of season 4. I've caught up to 4.15.


Spoiler



Yikes! Ragnar came to an exceptionally gruesome end. I'm curious about how the show can continue without its central character.


OK, THC, give me the last five season four episodes to binge-watch before the new season starts on Wednesday.


----------



## ctg




----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> Thanks to the upcoming season 5 slated this week, the History Channel has been running the last half of season 4. I've caught up to 4.15.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes! Ragnar came to an exceptionally gruesome end. I'm curious about how the show can continue without its central character.
> 
> 
> OK, THC, give me the last five season four episodes to binge-watch before the new season starts on Wednesday.



Looks like we'll be starting out with an in depth look at Lagertha and then there should be plenty of intrigue as we get into more about Ragnar's sons.


----------



## REBerg

All caught up with season 4. 



Spoiler



I'm still wondering how interesting the show will be without Ragnar. The final episodes of the season had plenty of ground to cover with avenging his death, but branch stories in the new season might seem more like spinoffs.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I'm still wondering how interesting the show will be without Ragnar.



We are about to enter the time, when they combined together 1000 boats and sent 10 000 men over to England to rape and pillage half of the country. We are also going to witness them settling in and making a town called York. Snake-eyes was one of their greatest admin kings. His only problem was getting on that throne as we don't give up anything easily in the cold, harsh north. So there is no need for Ragnar.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> We are about to enter the time, when they combined together 1000 boats and sent 10 000 men over to England to rape and pillage half of the country. We are also going to witness them settling in and making a town called York. Snake-eyes was one of their greatest admin kings. His only problem was getting on that throne as we don't give up anything easily in the cold, harsh north. So there is no need for Ragnar.





Spoiler



Snake-eyes? That wasn't the late brother, Sigurd?


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Snake-eyes?



Yeah, the cripple Odin healed.


----------



## svalbard

REBerg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Snake-eyes? That wasn't the late brother, Sigurd?



They are playing fast and loose with history. That particular character had a long and fruitful career in Scandinavia. It is still one ths most enjoyable series out there at the moment.


----------



## clovis-man

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the cripple Odin healed.





Spoiler



Aren't we talking about Ivar the Boneless??


----------



## svalbard

How do I put the spoiler thingy on.


----------



## ctg

under the quote button is spoiler button, it's a drop down box, just click and select


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






clovis-man said:


> Ivar the Boneless??



Yeah, but in the series he is Sigurd Snake-Eyes.


----------



## svalbard

Spoiler



In the series Ivar kills Sigurd which never happened. Sigurd 'Snake-in-the-Eye' had a long life. Of course there is no historical basis for Bjorn, Ivar, Sigurd, Ubbe or Hvsiark as the sons of Ragnar.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: New Main Character


----------



## REBerg

*5.0 The Saga of Lagertha*
With three hours of the new season to watch, I was tempted to skip this episode-sized series recap. I am glad I didn't.
Actress Katheryn Winnick has done a remarkable job of portraying a strong female character and fully deserves this spotlight on her talents. I hope the special signals Lagertha's series longevity rather than her impending demise.
Who knew the Seer was also the Viking historian?


----------



## ctg

How many bishops carry a weapon or plot murders?


----------



## REBerg

*5.1&2 The Departed*


Spoiler



Looks like the show can go on without Ragnar, although I am expecting a few guest ghost appearances as season 5 marches on. Even 24/7 fighting and feasting in Valhalla might leave a guy like Ragnar a little restless.
I'm also anticipating a prolonged struggle between the Battle Bishop and Ivar "Ironlegs" the Boneless Lothbrok. I'm assuming that the bishop can take enough time off from consoling widows to chase Ivar and his bloodthirsty horde through England./SPOILER]



Spoiler: A storyline abandoned


----------



## REBerg

I the Boneless  is clearly crazy; but when it comes to guerrilla warfare, he is crazy like a fox.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> I the Boneless is clearly crazy; but when it comes to guerrilla warfare, he is crazy like a fox.



You would expect that from the Son of Allfather. He is chaotic, cunning and Ivar follows Ragnar's advice down to the letter. It's just he has no idea about the power of crusader armies, and what it means to be against these men. And their faith.


----------



## svalbard

I see betrayals aplenty down the road. Should be fun. It is interesting seeing the different characteristics of Ragnar in each of his sons. His wanderlust in Bjorn, cunning and ruthlessness in Ivar and his hopes of a new life for his people in Ubbe. It is very well done.


----------



## REBerg

They've been good a juggling multiple settings, but I'm more interested in seeing how things go in York than in Sicily, Norway or Iceland. Dividing each episode five ways is about enough. After all, this isn't _Game of Thrones. _


----------



## svalbard

REBerg said:


> They've been good a juggling multiple settings, but I'm more interested in seeing how things go in York than in Sicily, Norway or Iceland. Dividing each episode five ways is about enough. After all, this isn't _Game of Thrones. _



It's better! I am with you though. York and Kattegat would be enough for me. I am actually beginning to like King Harald.


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> I am actually beginning to like King Harald.


He is one smooth operator in the lady department.
His solution to getting a queen is to steal one? I wonder if realizes that, if he ever succeeds in consummating the marriage, Astrid will be thinking of Lagertha.


----------



## REBerg

If I should ever acquire a longboat, I know which company to approach for insurance.  

GEICO TV Commercial, 'History Channel: Vikings Raid'

GEICO TV Commercial, 'History Channel: Polite Vikings'


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.05 The Prisoner



Attacking the Saxons from the York sewers seemed like a tactic doomed to failure.
The sewer exits were already surrounded by armed enemy soldiers. Once the element of surprise was gone, I would think they could have dispatched each Viking as he or she popped up -- like Whack-A-Mole.
Is this battle based on history, or History Channel fiction?
Floki seems to be making promises about Iceland that he can't keep. People can see gods at will, but Floki is playing politics by promising uninhabited, rich farmland to those who join him.
By secretly recruiting followers, he seems more likely to be ended by Lagertha than to establish a new farming settlement.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> People can see gods at will, but Floki is playing politics by promising uninhabited, rich farmland to those who join him.
> By secretly recruiting followers, he seems more likely to be ended by Lagertha than to establish a new farming settlement.



This thing actually happened. They knew almost nothing about the Iceland, but it didn't stop them from going there and making a permanent settlement. Some people went even further, reaching Greenland and then Queensland at Canada's coast around 1105. The people who moved into the Iceland felt cheated, because the Explorers promised a land worth of deities. Also you have to take in this context account the fact that Floki is a liar and a trickster, so similar to god we know now as Loki.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> This thing actually happened. They knew almost nothing about the Iceland, but it didn't stop them from going there and making a permanent settlement. Some people went even further, reaching Greenland and then Queensland at Canada's coast around 1105. The people who moved into the Iceland felt cheated, because the Explorers promised a land worth of deities. Also you have to take in this context account the fact that Floki is a liar and a trickster, so similar to god we know now as Loki.





Spoiler



Floki's giggling response to being dismissed as insane was telling.
Floki has always been, uh, to put it diplomatically, "different." He went deep into cuckooland by putting his "fate in the hands of the gods" and linking that to accidentally discovering Iceland.
Those listening to him must see that, but seem desperate enough to sign up.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Those listening to him must see that, but seem desperate enough to sign up.



Norway is very, very mountainous and Denmark effing small. So Vikings didn't had much of choices if you wanted to raise a family and keep them well fed. Nobody came to raide Iceland, so in that term, it's perfect place to raise couple of Vikings.


----------



## svalbard

The battle scene in York, whilst it was visually stunning, it was a tad contrived. There is no way that plan should have worked.

According to the Norse Sagas a certain Floki Vilgardsson was one of the first settlers in Iceland.

Lots of themes coming through in this series and one of my pet theories on Halfdan seems to have come to pass.


----------



## REBerg

I think Lagertha should immediately follow through on her promise to cut Margrethe's tongue out, and Ubbe should dump Margrethe for Torvi.
Just sayin'


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Ubbe should dump Margrethe for Torvi.



Torvi in Finnish is "a trumpet" or "a person, who tends to make stupid things." 



Spoiler



I loved seeing Floki struggling with his True Believers. That one woman was the only one, who had balls to go and say "we should follow him," when most of them were prepared to turn around from Floki's safe heaven. The interesting fact is the by the time Vikings found iceland it had 40 to 50 percent of it's land mass covered in forest. Today it's around ten to fifteen percent, because the volcanoes and humans wiped away the rest. 

I don't understand Ivar's need to be King of the Kattagat. He is able to raise warparties all on his own, and he doesn't need a throne for that. Besides the point, we would always need a body guard to follow him everywhere, and I don't think dear old Bishop is the best person for that job. He'd rather murder Ivar when time arrives then save his butt.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler



Another thing that I noticed was the reference to Land of Giants. They thought Floki had brought them in Jotunheim, but I believe the reference has a deeper meaning as during the time they were alive, there was a tribe giants rulings a native Indian city. They were wiped out before the Wild West appeared, but, I think Vikings might have been battling with Eastern Tribes that travelled with mammoths. 

Sorry for this tin-foil wrapped conspiracy theory. I just had to get it out from my head.


----------



## Connavar

obs...


----------



## Connavar

ctg said:


> Torvi in Finnish is "a trumpet" or "a person, who tends to make stupid things."
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I loved seeing Floki struggling with his True Believers. That one woman was the only one, who had balls to go and say "we should follow him," when most of them were prepared to turn around from Floki's safe heaven. The interesting fact is the by the time Vikings found iceland it had 40 to 50 percent of it's land mass covered in forest. Today it's around ten to fifteen percent, because the volcanoes and humans wiped away the rest.
> 
> I don't understand Ivar's need to be King of the Kattagat. He is able to raise warparties all on his own, and he doesn't need a throne for that. Besides the point, we would always need a body guard to follow him everywhere, and I don't think dear old Bishop is the best person for that job. He'd rather murder Ivar when time arrives then save his butt.



About Ivar & Ep 8



Spoiler



I dont think Ivar ever had a need to be king of the Kattegat, he is smart enough to know having huge armies to conquer more of England, other lands will became him more famous than Ragnar as he said. I can actually understand, respect his need to attack Kattegat only to avenge his mother, kill Lagertha. She was the only person who loved him despite the damaged body he had as a kid. Its understandable why Ubbe, Vitserk would not avenge her as emotionally as Ivar who she lived for. The last ep proved that was his only goal. What did you think of the last ep? It was refereshing to see Björn outsmart Ivar using his war experiences the years Ragnar,Rollo and co. Ivar is greater general than Ragnar ever was but he is young, inexperienced comparison to Björn.


----------



## REBerg

*5.10 Moments of Vision*
A truly spectacular mid-season finale.


Spoiler



At the first cut from the start of the fight, I thought that History had copped out on the full-scale battle it had been building. I was delighted to be so wrong.
The continuous before-and-during-battle cuts were brilliant, as were the mid-battle visions. The segments in Iceland contrasted the innate violence of the Viking culture and Floki's vision of a new peaceful civilization.
I noticed that Floki "offered" to serve as a meaningful sacrifice to appease the Gods. I wonder if his flock will accept his offer.
Was Iceland really founded on a philosophy of pacifism?


----------



## svalbard

The answer to your question is no. Icelandic sagas such as The Burning of Njal are ferociously violent.


----------



## REBerg

What, History taking liberties with history? 
Now, please don't tell me that Viking leaders of both genders were not at the very front of the battle lines heading the charge against the enemy. That seems so much more noble than today's heads of state, waging war from behind the scenes, ordering the deaths of thousands for questionable reasons, risking not so much as a hair on their heads.


----------



## svalbard

A brilliant mid-season finale. It had it all. Big set piece battle, sacrifice, major character deaths, and a real 'What is all this for?' feel to it as the slaughter went on and on.

And thay final scene. A legendary warrior returns. What will he make of it all.


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> A brilliant mid-season finale. It had it all. Big set piece battle, sacrifice, major character deaths, and a real 'What is all this for?' feel to it as the slaughter went on and on.
> 
> And thay final scene. A legendary warrior returns. What will he make of it all.





Spoiler



A legendary warrior who stayed out of the action.
Has Rollo come to collect his due for sending the Frankish soldiers who may have given the war to Ivar? Has he even met his crazy nephew?


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> A legendary warrior who stayed out of the action.
> Has Rollo come to collect his due for sending the Frankish soldiers who may have given the war to Ivar? Has he even met his crazy nephew?





Spoiler



Nah. He came because he was invited.


----------



## Judderman

Who is watching the Viking series? I'm somewhat surprised there is no thread on it here. It is very popular. It is not strictly fantasy.... but there is very little fact in it, and there is plenty of mythology referred to. I have just binged through the first four seasons and the first part of the fifth in the last month or so. It is overall a superb series!

It would be nice to know what of it is factual (or close to fact). It seems the main character and his family are based on legendary characters from the 8th and 9th centuries, which were written about in the 12th or 13th centuries so may not have much reality to them. Some of the characters appear to be referred to in histories of other European countries, though with slightly different names given.

Anyway I highly recommend watching it. There is entertaining drama, romance, deception, some good acting, twists and fantastic fight sequences. It is engrossing to see how the Vikings explored "new" lands. There are parts where a particular storyline drags a bit, like one in season 2 that seemed to go in circles for a few episodes. But overall great entertainment. Other than trying to work out what will happen next it is fairly simplistic. It's not Game of Thrones. There is some fun stuff like an ancient seer giving glimpses of the future to key characters too.  
Compared to The Lost Kingdom, I would say this seems arguably less realistic (even though Lost Kingdom is a fictional story) but probably better acting and is bigger budget etc. I like them both. Both shows are at overlapping time periods and it is interesting to see how they present the British Kings differently, and about the Viking incursions.


----------



## Parson

But there has been Vikings

I watched for a while, but the violence finally overrode any enjoyment I got from the stories. I think the episode that did it for me was about the "eagle."


----------



## REBerg

Parson said:


> But there has been Vikings
> 
> I watched for a while, but the violence finally overrode any enjoyment I got from the stories. I think the episode that did it for me was about the "eagle."


That was an especially horrific method of execution.
I was appalled, even earlier in the series, when human sacrifice  to the gods was revealed. I suppose the element of violence lends a sense of reality to this depiction of the times.


----------



## -K2-

Judderman said:


> ...It would be nice to know what of it is factual (or close to fact). It seems the main character and his family are based on legendary characters from the 8th and 9th centuries, which were written about in the 12th or 13th centuries so may not have much reality to them. Some of the characters appear to be referred to in histories of other European countries, though with slightly different names given...



Have you performed any searches regarding these characters?  Not surprisingly, much of it is based off of actual people and events.  As with many historically themed presentations, though drama is added to make it entertaining, truth is often 'as strange or stranger than fiction.'

Elsewhere on the web I'm routinely inspired when discussing 'extreme' events or situations to remind folks to actually do a bit of investigation.  My common response being; _"you cannot imagine anything that has not already been done before, often well beyond what you're suggesting. And is likely happening now."_

Point being (to those put-off by the violence and other aspects), the level of violence and depravity presented in the show is minor in comparison to real events.

I'm not stating that the show is factual (though I feel it has made an effort to be), yet if you want historical fact along with your entertainment, that's what you get.  Man is a violent and depraved beast, often spanning from one extreme to the other.

K2


----------



## Judderman

Parson said:


> But there has been Vikings
> 
> I watched for a while, but the violence finally overrode any enjoyment I got from the stories. I think the episode that did it for me was about the "eagle."


Strange I searched but didn't find that thread. Maybe this thread can be deleted.

I think "The Eagle" was the last of a run of perhaps 4 of the poorer episodes. The story didn't progress and that execution was dragged out.


----------



## Judderman

This thread has just been pointed out to me as the main Vikings thread. What a superb show this is. At least mostly. Some stories, such as with Athelstan and Ragnar (and previously with Jarl borg) were sometimes dragged out. Season 4 suffered a little with needing a refresh, though it was still good. Season 5 definitely refreshes! I haven't quite reached the season 5 midseason finale yet but I thought s5 e4 was one of the best episodes. Great drama.


----------



## Judderman

I found it very interesting in an earlier season when it was revealed that many of the English people in the 9th century AD thought that art such as some of the impressive sculptures and statues left by the Romans were actually made by a group of Giants who had previously ruled the realm. And they didn't know of the Roman people. Actually is plausible if most people had no real education at that time.


----------



## ctg

Judderman said:


> Actually is plausible if most people had no real education at that time.



Are you saying that there was no giants, or that there is no megalithic ruins or that the people were uneducated to be able to figure out things. The Vikings starts badly because it shows that the English were baboons and the vikings came in with a superior technology and were ruthless bastards, even though since 67 AD Budaka had showed that the British people knows how to behave badly. The celtic people lost their teachers, and much of the knowledge to the Roman slaughter in the druids temple at that year. In a way Romans decapitated the people and afterwards, as Budaka didn't had a great tactical mind, the rebel leaders were put down until the Christianity swept over the land. 

I think it's really good that they didn't showed Vikings with great halls, and such things, but actually as nomads mostly living in and around forested Scandinavia. In a way you can see Vikings as tribal warriors or as a band of hoolings compared to English Castles. Britannia and Gallia was so much ahead of the Norwegian, Swedish and Danish Vikings in the technology terms. They however didn't had great leaders, like the one they forget out from Ragnar. 

At the end, and where the series is sitting at the moment Ivar is far more capable than his father. I have a love/hate relationship with his characters as I admire his cunning mind but at the same time, I'm upset that he's so bastardly ruthless and completly stupid towards his own family. The power has really gone into his head and that's bad by our traditions. Back then it moved mountains.


----------



## Parson

-K2- said:


> Elsewhere on the web I'm routinely inspired when discussing 'extreme' events or situations to remind folks to actually do a bit of investigation. My common response being; _"you cannot imagine anything that has not already been done before, often well beyond what you're suggesting. And is likely happening now."_



I've been thinking about this for a while. It is probably true that _"you cannot imagine anything that has not already been done before,_ I don't think that says anything about what should be broadcast for public consumption. Let me give you a couple of examples. Many years ago I was teaching school and we had a teacher who kept a list of all of the negative behavior that she had encountered and handed out a list at the beginning of the school year. She always had all kinds of those things happen each year. I was convinced that she stimulated ideas by passing out that list. More importantly and less subjectively, about 2 decades ago the small community in which I lived had a teenager who committed suicide, and one other had threatened it. The community got together to fight teenage suicide (churches, schools, businesses etc.) and we made a big deal of "Celebrate Life." What happened? We 4 attempts in the next 2 years, and it wasn't until we stopped making a deal of it, that the attempts disappeared. The leaders decided that by addressing the suicides we gave them the attention and the legitimacy that the children wanted and therefore made the option more viable in their eyes. Something like that must be considered when broadcasting violence or other socially unacceptable behavior.


----------



## Judderman

Parson what you are talking about is partly why there are so many mass shootings. They are publicised and give people ideas. Anyway, we digress.
K2, I did so a little searching. Not much admittedly and lazily asked here. But regarding the Viking main characters it seems many were written about in the 13th century despite being apparently active in the 8th and 9th century. How factual will these legends be? Barely at all.
But yes, the point that there is some basis about the British Kings from history, the places Vikings attacked etc, along with knowledge from Archaeology about means there will be some facts. I never doubted they were violent times! :O

CTG, yes I was saying it is plausible that the Romans were forgotten down the generations and replaced in peoples minds by legends.

Another point. -Lagertha, is never made to age on this show! She is more serious but they don't make her look much older. Some characters age massively. A bit odd as in the first series they already said she was getting old to have children.


----------



## REBerg

*5.11 The Revelation*
Welcome back, _Vikings_!
With nearly a year between the "mid-season finale" and this episode, it's commendable that the History channel preceded the continuation with a full-length recap, "The Saga of Bjorn" --  as the channel had done with a recap focused on Lagertha after a previous mid-season gap.


Spoiler



This episode did a nice job of picking up the pieces in the aftermath of the big Lothbrok brothers showdown. Bishop Heahmund's promise of protection for Lagertha & Company if she fled to England might be null and void. His imagined influence may have died with King Ecbert.
They should have let Bjorn execute Rollo, actual historic events be damned.


----------



## Av Demeisen

*Norsemen (Vikingane)*
Are there 5 seasons already? Now I'm confused.


----------



## clovis-man

Season 6 just started.


----------



## ctg

clovis-man said:


> Season 6 just started.



No. It's continuation of the last season. Check it out. Like REBerg said, it was a year long midseason break.


----------



## Al Jackson

Judderman said:


> Who is watching the Viking series? I'm somewhat surprised there is no thread on it here. It is very popular. It is not strictly fantasy.... but there is very little fact in it, and there is plenty of mythology referred to. I have just binged through the first four seasons and the first part of the fifth in the last month or so. It is overall a superb series!
> 
> It would be nice to know what of it is factual (or close to fact). It seems the main character and his family are .



I watched the first season, I liked it a lot, for some reason it did not pull me it, tho, I am going to watch more of it , sometime up ahead. Maybe because, even with it's a totally different setting (alternate universe) Game of Thornes saturates my 'clashing swords bin'.


----------



## REBerg

Al Jackson said:


> I watched the first season, I liked it a lot, for some reason it did not pull me it, tho, I am going to watch more of it , sometime up ahead. Maybe because, even with it's a totally different setting (alternate universe) Game of Thornes saturates my 'clashing swords bin'.


What? There's a saturation point for that?


----------



## Parson

REBerg said:


> What? There's a saturation point for that?



There certainly was for me. Vikings just got too over the top with violence.  ---- As I mentioned up thread it was "The Eagle" episode that killed the series for me.


----------



## REBerg

I am also not a fan of that horrific form of execution, which seems to be reserved for top Viking enemies.
I am a fan of massive clashes of armies swinging swords, axes and any other conceivable instrument of mayhem. I keep wondering how anyone engaged in hand-to-hand combat like that, when a fatal blow can come from any direction, survives.
I watch these battles in much the same way as I watch the regulated, ritual violence of an NFL game. Minnesota's Vikings are a tad tamer, but they still have helmets.


----------



## Judderman

The Eagle episode was the end of a low period for the series. There was a few episodes that dragged, and that one was over the top. But it improved again after that.


----------



## Al Jackson

REBerg said:


> I am also not a fan of that horrific form of execution, which seems to be reserved for top Viking enemies.
> I am a fan of massive clashes of armies swinging swords, axes and any other conceivable instrument of mayhem. I keep wondering how anyone engaged in hand-to-hand combat like that, when a fatal blow can come from any direction, survives.
> I watch these battles in much the same way as I watch the regulated, ritual violence of an NFL game. Minnesota's Vikings are a tad tamer, but they still have helmets.



It is an interesting thing about warfare. When I looked back at WWII , made in WWII, movies I did not find a one that felt realistic. Not until 1949 and the movie Battle Ground did it feel right. Later years HBOs Band of Brothers and Pacific nailed it, Saving Private Ryan too, there may be some other recent ones too.
Going back in time, seems battles are hard to portray , the 1993 Gettysburg is good tho no cigar.
For swords and spears I thought Game of Thrones Battle of the Bastards is about the best I have ever seen.
We will never know what Kubrick had in mind. the big battle in Spartacus , 1960, has the best set up I know of , but Kubrick had plans for an elaboration that we never see, they just ran out of production time and budget.
I thought the big battle in the recent Outlaw King was good but a bit lackluster.
I think it is hard to make hand to hand combat look real enough to be engaging.


----------



## clovis-man

ctg said:


> No. It's continuation of the last season. Check it out. Like REBerg said, it was a year long midseason break.



It was so long since the last episode was aired that I thought we were on a new series. That and the elaborate Bjorn recap which seemed to be to make up for all the time in between for those of us with faulty memories.


----------



## ctg

clovis-man said:


> It was so long since the last episode was aired that I thought we were on a new series. That and the elaborate Bjorn recap which seemed to be to make up for all the time in between for those of us with faulty memories.



Yeah, it's not the first time they've done it either. Vikings is one of those series that just suddenly pops back into the schedule and before you realise, it's gone.


----------



## ctg

I knew that Catholic Church priest were blood thirsty but them slashing out on each other, I would have never guessed. Not in a million years. Maybe what the Vikings is showing us is something that they never wanted to reveal to the greater public. After all CC's image is painted in purity, but the acts that were committed in the name of Lord weren't. 

Vikings continues to shock and entertain from a season to another. It doesn't care if it loses big names in the course of the series, because every episode brings new insights to the period that has been mystified for a long time. Maybe some of this has been dramatised, but it's doesn't take far stretch of imagination to realised that eleven hundred years ago times were very different. 

It is also intriguing to watch Vikings breathing life in the Myths of England's first king, Arthur. Not the one that was born to rule Camelot, but the one that was raised up in swamp, but the one that united them all, and gave the birth to one of the greatest empires on Earth. 



Spoiler



I also enjoyed Björn Ironside bonking the upcoming queen, just because he could. It makes all of this more believable. Not the opposite.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.12 Murder Most Foul



What was the late Bishop Cuthbert thinking? Threatening to expose Heahmund's seriously non-celibate ways and thinking  that a small up-the-sleeve dagger was enough to protect him from an angry, battle-hardened swordsman? Cuthbert was certainly in a position to have a security squad of helmeted thugs at his disposal. His was a death well-deserved.
Perhaps less deserved was the death of Margrethe. Sure, she had asked Hvitserk to kill Ivar in the crazy belief that she would then become queen; but she was obviously mad as a hatter and could have been left in her isolated cabin with little fear of doing harm.
This episode was unusually sexcapade-centric -- Lagertha's trysts with Heahmund, Freydis' forceful acquisition of a sperm donation, and Bjorn breaking in King Arthur's bride-to-be. I hope they return to a little more action of the sword and ax variety as the season continues./SPOILER]


----------



## svalbard

King Alfred not King Arthur  

Having just finished The Last Kingdom series I am finding it hard to adjust to the more fantastical Vikings. I will give it another week or so and dive back in because I do so love this series.


----------



## ctg

svalbard said:


> King Alfred not King Arthur



Same thing, almost. Both starts with A.


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> King Alfred not King Arthur


I suppose the next thing you'll be telling me is that they're not in Camelot.


----------



## Judderman

Or spamalot?

Ivar was easily convinced about the pregnancy cause, but he is somewhat delusional.
Are Hegbert and the brothers going to save the throne?


----------



## svalbard

I am terribly sorry but it is Heahmund  Must stop this.


----------



## REBerg

The Rev. Herbert may be miscalculating in his bid to regain his old position in Spamalot. As a a bishop, he has more range; but as a knight, he can strike in more directions.


----------



## ctg

Why is that there are either complete nuts or calm and collective, smart people in the English Royal families? It has gone like that forever and again. Why there are no middle ground?


----------



## REBerg

*5.13 A New God*
I think I'm not going too far out on a limb by concluding that Ivar's new queen is a bad influence on the lad.


Spoiler



Freydis seems to easily convince Crazy Ivar that he is a god, which serves as a convenient explanation for how she has become pregnant -- immaculate conception.
Freydis' move to tie up the loose end to that story, having the guy who actually planted the seed strangled, was more than a little dumb. She should done the deed herself. All she did was create a new loose end.
Ivar's celebration of his divinity rivals the antics of Caligula. Will he dare sacrifice Hvitserk? Does a new god really need to sacrifice a brother to be initiated to the Norse God Club?
He's not Ivar the Boneless. He's Ivar the Bonehead.
I find the scenes set in England less interesting than events in Norway and the Iceland storyline to be of no interest at all.


----------



## Anushka Mokosh

REBerg said:


> *5.13 A New God*
> I think I'm not going too far out on a limb by concluding that Ivar's new queen is a *bad influence on the lad*.



I must admit I never thought it possible that someone could be a bad influence *on Ivar.*


----------



## REBerg

Anushka Mokosh said:


> I must admit I never thought it possible that someone could be a bad influence *on Ivar.*


 Oh, she most definitely is.


----------



## Anushka Mokosh

REBerg said:


> Oh, she most definitely is.


Agreed!


----------



## Judderman

S5E13 was pretty good overall, though I did zone out during one of the Iceland based discussions. 



Spoiler: 5e13 spoiler



I'm still unclear what Bjorn and the others will do for Alfred. Other than Bjorn impregnating his wife. Perhaps they will appear before a battle and get that Viking who was running York on his side, along with his troops.


----------



## REBerg

Judderman said:


> Spoiler: 5e13 spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still unclear what Bjorn and the others will do for Alfred. Other than Bjorn impregnating his wife. Perhaps they will appear before a battle and get that Viking who was running York on his side, along with his troops.





Spoiler



I wondered about that too. As much as the Northmen are symbols of ferocious fighting, they are not exactly adored by the Wessexians (Wessexish?).
The Viking-in-Charge of York was initially undecided about joining Good King Finehair in attacking Wessex. It would be sweet if he switched sides in mid-battle.


----------



## svalbard

To be honest I am not enjoying the way they have completely changed the historical setting in Wessex. I do not mind a bit of poetic licence and all that however this seems a bit too much.


----------



## Judderman

A fair point, especially considering this is on the History channel!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S05E14



Ivar has lost last of his marbles. I'm not sure he started with many, but AllFather cannot be pleased with this travesty, taking in that he seeded the child. It doesn't surprise me that his brother resents him. It's no wonder why so many Vikings turned to Christianity at the end. The Old Gods just were too bloody. 

I really liked Peter Frazen digging into all that dark stuff that comes from being Finn and applying it to being King Harald, without his wife.  But I loathed Floki meeting with a ghost and driving the Icelandic community deeper into the darkness. It's just all the stuff that they are going through makes me also think is it going to the same stuff for the planetary colonisers? 

After all they're going to be humans and the bloody, murderous package that is the history is going to move over there with them. I hope it's not going to be repeating things again and again. We should learn and the History channel isn't afraid of showing how cruel the colonisation was back in the day.


----------



## svalbard

A much better episode. Ivar is stark, raving bonkers. I do find myself comparing the depiction of Alfred in Vikings against David Dawsen's Alfred in The Last Kingdom unfavourably.


----------



## Judderman

I didn't think this episode was strong either. By the second half of season 5 of a show you have to expect some drop in consistent quality.  Ivar has changed from someone quite intelligent, in a ruthless way, to someone deluded who thinks he can suddenly tell people not to believe their eyes. Without showing much of why. Well I suppose love/lust can turn people crazy. The sacrificial ceremony reminded me of something from "Live and Let Die".
But it seems we will be building up to another big battle before the end of the season. Wondering if the Iceland story will go somewhere. Presumably they will eventually get a functioning colony and then go back and recruit some more folks?
The Harold finehair scene with the potential love interest was amusing.


----------



## ctg

Judderman said:


> Wondering if the Iceland story will go somewhere. Presumably they will eventually get a functioning colony and then go back and recruit some more folks?



What troubles me with the Iceland community is that Iceland used to have woods. They had a lot of stuff there that they could have used, but living at top of the world means that you have to live with very short summer and rest of the time with constant winter and darkness. I understand the current pessimism if they would be doing it at winter times, but not if they're moping around the end of the summer. To be honest Vikings knew how to live in hard places. They knew how to build settlements, live off the land and navigate the world. There are those accounts, where the Icelanding Vikings made it off to coast of Canada, where they made the settlements and lived with the nature until the natives wiped them off. 

Floki is a carpenter and a master boat builder. The current state of their village is awful. Why is that he isn't able to make better settlement for them all? It's very likely that the expelled people might come back at deep of night. So without defences it's going to be easy thing. But yeah, Floki should definitely start transporting sheeps, yaks and supplies from Norway back to Iceland if he's going to be stay in the Iceland forever.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.14 The Lost Moment



I thought that everyone regarded the Seer as an untouchable holy man. As it turned out, not so much.
Ivar wasn't the first character to get bad news from the Seer. He is the only character so stark, raving mad that he thought nothing of putting an ax through the the Seer's eye. Not sure if it was his "good" eye. 
Other than Ivar's bloody work with the sacrifice and Seer, this episode didn't offer much in the way of action. Hvikserk's feeling that he needs to hang around his hometown for some unknown reason had better resolve itself into overthrowing Ivar before his crazy brother adds him to his list of victims.
I still can't get terribly interested in the pale intrigues of Wessex and Iceland. At least the arrival of King Harald promises some action in Wessex.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S05E15



I was wondering how true The History Channel was going to stay for the actual history as the Alfred vs the Vikings battle loomed in the horizon. Thing is, it is spoilerific to know that Alfred lived to become names as Alfred the Great later in the day, especially as we have seen how weak and bad Alfred was before the battle. In the show he is not the great warrior, but actually a lightweight man, who can barely lift a sword in his hand.

King Harald and his followers in the other hand has showed remarkable robustness and strength, but typical to them was that they were too stubborn to choose their own battles. A lot of them were shouting: "Why the ground is burned?" when they faced head-to-head Alfred's army, supported by catapults, and cavalry. Not that the cavalry made any difference after they revealed the kettling tactic by surrounding the opponent inside walls of fire. But a wise leader would have chosen another battleground and not charged head first to an ambush. 

I am glad that King Harald has plot armour and he was saved, while we lost Edmund and Lagatha. I also hope that he has enough of wisdom to Denmark to organise even bigger party, or aim his adventures to elsewhere in Europe and Asia. Historically we know that thousand boat parties started to appear soon after the defeat in the Wessex. But it was too late for them and it didn't take long before Vikings were forgotten as most of them turned to Christianity to only join the Crusades going back to the Holy Land. 

In a way nothing changed. But seeing how Ivar defined the end of the AllFather by declaring himself as a god just tells that the Raknarok for the Viking were coming nearer. He should have not killed the Seer, but he did. He also declared that his baby was going to be a boy. What if it's a girl? What is he going to tell the people then? It's just that the lies can lost only so long, and if you try to maintain them while the truth is clear as day, you are going to feel as big jerk when the lies doesn't support you any more. Luckily Ivar isn't stupid as he understands the power of preaching his own gospel. The people eat propaganda and they support it if they know no better. 

At the end it's nothing more than a house of cards and you know how it goes, if one the supports is removed. I am predicting that Ivar is going to face a disaster pretty soon. Then we are going to see how much people supports his ideas.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.15 Hell



I can't complain about the action this round.
I have the benefit of historical ignorance, so I was surprised that the bishop fell and that his king survived. Heahmund seemed as invincible as Bjorn, while Alfred was still in his early sword training lessons and had no business being on a battlefield.
Alfred would have been among the dead if his half-brother had not had his back, I wonder if that will count, now that Alfred knows of his involvement in the assassination conspiracy.
The statue erected in Ivar's honor was perfect cartoonish reflection of the new god. Both should be pulled down soon.
I don't believe that Lagertha has joined Ragnar in Valhalla. She should be more valuable alive than dead. I'm applying the old TV rule: no body, no death.


----------



## Judderman

5 e15 was a lot more fun than the previous couple. Entertaining.


Spoiler: S5E15



The death of Bishop Egbert was a shock but no man survives long after turning from her love. Almost like a curse.
The burning of the ground left a flat battle ground. Probably only really of benefit for the few catapults unless there was a worry they would fight where horse can’t charge.
Ivar and his brother Hvitserk will surely fight before the season ends.
With the burial of the Seer the actor can no longer phone in a Vikings paycheck!
There was no Iceland story today, which helped the episode flow.


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> Spoiler: 5.15 Hell
> 
> 
> 
> I can't complain about the action this round.
> I have the benefit of historical ignorance, so I was surprised that the bishop fell and that his king survived. Heahmund seemed as invincible as Bjorn, while Alfred was still in his early sword training lessons and had no business being on a battlefield.
> Alfred would have been among the dead if his half-brother had not had his back, I wonder if that will count, now that Alfred knows of his involvement in the assassination conspiracy.
> The statue erected in Ivar's honor was perfect cartoonish reflection of the new god. Both should be pulled down soon.
> I don't believe that Lagertha has joined Ragnar in Valhalla. She should be more valuable alive than dead. I'm applying the old TV rule: no body, no death.





Spoiler



Alfred's brother won't last long. Mom is a little too calculating for that. Ivar won't survive the series either. The actual historical facts surroundng him are sufficiently vague to provide a tabula rasa. I used to enjoy eating at a place in Seattle called "Ivar's Acres Of Clams".Wonder how they're doing.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.16 The Buddha



"What kind of mother are you?"
Well, Judith is the kind of mother who who clearly favored Alfred's right to the Wessex throne. She's the kind of mother who enjoyed pulling the stings of power behind the scenes. She's the kind of mother a son should never, never attempt to put in her place. She's the kind of mother who should be required to taste your food at every family dinner.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S05E16 - Buddha






REBerg said:


> "What kind of mother are you?"
> 
> Well, Judith is the kind of mother who who clearly favored Alfred's right to the Wessex throne. She's the kind of mother who enjoyed pulling the stings of power behind the scenes. She's the kind of mother a son should never, never attempt to put in her place. She's the kind of mother who should be required to taste your food at every family dinner.



Yeah and it wasn't first time she had poisoned someone in her family. When Ragnar was alive, she did the same thing. I just didn't guess that she were going to dirty her hands, when Mummy Dearest was so concerned over Alfred having epileptic fit. Except they showed him being almost paralysed. Completely knocked out. 

Too bad that in the real life it'll reset your brain and you will have problems on adjusting back to the reality. The blessing is that you won't remember anything. But I don't think they're going to show Alfred in the state, where he cannot function, because he still have to face those Saxon's to unite the kingdom. But all that Mum has been doing points out to that the Royalties need to establish the Tower at banks of Londonium. After all that was the place, where you'd end if you were a royalties and your head was on the block. 

If you'll go to visit it today, the Yeoman will tell you that last execution was just back in the 1800's. A little over hundred years ago. Before that at least 700 hundred years of murders and plots to get to the throne. 

It surprised me that the Vikings currently looks like Game of Thrones, except in this one there aren't only one, but many. And their owners keeps rabidly changing. The other surprise was the appearance of the Buddha in this episode. In China, there are caves that have mummified corpses, with definite scandinavian features, like blond hair and broad shoulders. 

So, it is very likely that we ventured farther than Damascus in pursuit for knowledge. It wasn't just North West, Iceland, Greenland and ultimate Canada. Some of the Vikings were great explorers as they weren't scared of going into the strange lands or meeting with people, who clearly weren't theirs. Thing is, the Buddha that appeared seemed to be like the Buddha in real life. 

There are tales that say the Buddha was as real as all Hindu Gods. It is just a surprise to think that a Mongolian looking man could be found from Kattagat. Yet, you only have to look into Russia and Ural Mountains and these features start to appear. If, Buddha is the same as the AllFather appearing as Wanderer it is also another nod towards the mythology becoming reality in this series.

But so far I have not written a word about Hagard even though Peter Franzen got titled as first in the series. I think he has more plot armour then Ivar at the moment, but it is interesting that he willingly accepted Björn's and Brunhilda's newly forged relationship. It's just can that Brunhilda be the Brunhilda?


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.17 The Most Terrible Thing



Holy cataclysmic climate! This show is not exactly a promotion for the Icelandic Tourism Bureau.
This episode covered all the bases -- Norway, Wessex, York and Iceland -- each for a few minutes at a time, at a dizzying, revolving pace.
I think Hvitserk is making a mistake in leaving his girlfriend behind as he obeys the eviction notice from his crazy brother.
I didn't expect Judith to confess her murder of Aethelred to King Alfred, but it seemed to put her back in charge of the kingdom. Alfred the Great appears to be more of an Alfred the Wimp.
Bjorn appeared to be matching Hvitserk's mistake as he seemingly offered his first confessed love to King Harald in exchange for his help in dethroning Ivar the Bonehead. Harald's history of setting his romantic sights on women out of his league seems likely to remain unbroken.
The Iceland community seems to consist of a dwindling number of indistinct, heavily animal-skin dressed characters whose hobbies are limited to shivering and killing each other. Floki's vision of paradise it ain't.


----------



## clovis-man

An IMDB report:  Editors' Picks: Our Favorites From the Week of Jan. 6


----------



## Judderman

Much as I have enjoyed the show a lot it has petered out a bit in the second half of season 5. With less strong characters 6 seasons sounds like a good length to finish with. Interested in spinoffs though!


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: 5.18



Did anyone find Ivar pulling faces during the child birth funny? I was laughing at them, while I shed a tear for Floki losing his face. I surely thought he was going to use the use to bang the offenders head in, instead of giving him the talk


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> Spoiler: 5.17 The Most Terrible Thing
> 
> 
> 
> Harald's history of setting his romantic sights on women out of his league seems likely to remain unbroken.





Spoiler



Poor Harald. He may be a king, but he's just unlucky at love.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 5.18 Baldur



Ivar, Ivar, Ivar.
This god claims to want his people to love him, and yet he burns them alive for a little statue vandalism? With two enemy armies heading his way, he isn't exactly winning the hearts and minds of his own troops. Ivar's personal goon squad isn't going to do him much good when Bjorn, King Olaf and Hvitserk show up.
Hvitserk is going to be extremely outraged (although he should not be overly surprised) when he learns of Thora's fate at Ivar's hand,


----------



## svalbard

Peter Franzten is the best thing as King Harald in this show these days. I love the way his emotions play across his face as he is forever thwarted in love.

This was a particularly good episode in an overall dull season. With Steven Berkoff as King Olaf what was there not to like  I want more time with Ubbe and Torvi, King Harald, Hvitsiark and less time with Floki, no time with Alfred, his character is awful and nothing at all of Ivarr.


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> I want more time with Ubbe and Torvi, King Harald, Hvitsiark and less time with Floki, no time with Alfred, his character is awful and nothing at all of Ivarr


So many characters could have stepped into the central spotlight for Ragnar -- Bjorn, Lagertha, even Floki. Putting  Crazy Ivar up front may have seemed topical in today's world  to the showrunners, but that move could be key in the downhill path _Vikings_ seems to be taking.


----------



## ctg

svalbard said:


> Peter Franzten is the best thing as King Harald in this show these days. I love the way his emotions play across his face as he is forever thwarted in love.



I wish you'd understand Finnish so that you could enjoy his other productions, but I also know how tall order that wish is to become reality.


----------



## Judderman

Yeah, early in season 5 Ivar's rise was exciting at times. Second half of the season he has been quite tiresome. Though not as much as the Iceland storyline. It seems we are building towards another big battle at least.
Svalbard is right that Olaf was entertaining, as is is Harald still.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> I wish you'd understand Finnish so that you could enjoy his other productions, but I also know how tall order that wish is to become reality.


Mitä? Kuka ei ymmärrä suomea?


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> Kuka ei ymmärrä suomea?



Yleensäkin kaikki ihmiset, jopa Suomalaiset sunnuntaiaamun horkassa, kun on kaikki paikat niin kohmeessa.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Yleensäkin kaikki ihmiset, jopa Suomalaiset sunnuntaiaamun horkassa, kun on kaikki paikat niin kohmeessa.


Usually all the people, even the Finns, are in the morning of Sunday morning, when there are all places so cramped?
Oops! You're correct. Even online translators don't understand Finnish.


----------



## clovis-man

REBerg said:


> So many characters could have stepped into the central spotlight for Ragnar -- Bjorn, Lagertha, even Floki. Putting  Crazy Ivar up front may have seemed topical in today's world  to the showrunners, but that move could be key in the downhill path _Vikings_ seems to be taking.



Ivar is simply the character that you love to hate.


----------



## svalbard

They could have made Ivar a more nuanced figure. We have only seen the inner conflict in him on a few occasions most notably at the ending of the last episode. Apart from that his actions are those of a pantomine villain.


----------



## REBerg

*5.19 What Happens in the Cave*
...stays in the cave?


Spoiler



Have we really seen the end of Floki? (and the end of the tedious Iceland storyline?) I counted Floki dead after his catastrophic ladder-equipped longboat attack on Paris, but he is remarkably resilient,
How ultra-ironic would it be if Floki is entombed with the symbol of the religion he so hated in a cave he thought would lead him to his own gods? (Did he discover the hiding place the Knights Templar had chosen for the Holy Grail? )
For such a forceful character, Queen Judith got a minimal death scene. Last week, she announced she was dying; this week, she checks out with nothing more than long exhalation -- not even a death rattle. Lagertha got the queen's final words of wisdom for King Alfred -- become great.
The death match between Ubbe and King Frodo was epic. The rivalry between Bjorn and King Harald looked like it was going the same way until Gunnhild stepped in and ended their fight with a cuff to Bjorn's head. and told them both to behave until after they had conquered Kattegat. 
Also funny was Bjorn's casual inquiry of Hvitserk as to where he was going with such a large army. The brothers' alliance was predictable, but I still wonder if the flip-flopping King Olaf will side with them or Ivar when they march on Kattegat. At least Ivar should still be under the impression that they will be fighting for him and take no defensive action.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Have we really seen the end of Floki? (and the end of the tedious Iceland storyline?) I counted Floki dead after his catastrophic ladder-equipped longboat attack on Paris, but he is remarkably resilient,
> 
> How ultra-ironic would it be if Floki is entombed with the symbol of the religion he so hated in a cave he thought would lead him to his own gods? (Did he discover the hiding place the Knights Templar had chosen for the Holy Grail? )



Your description is very accurate and there is no easy explanation for him finding a cross deep within the Earth, but it's hard to believe that he would last the pyroclastic flow or to be within the volcanic mountain, probably in a shaft with lava bubbling at the bottom and live through it going alive. 

Also the cup he found doesn't fit the grail description. It was too rich in detail and showed almost no patina. 



REBerg said:


> The death match between Ubbe and King Frodo was epic. The rivalry between Bjorn and King Harald looked like it was going the same way until Gunnhild stepped in and ended their fight with a cuff to Bjorn's head. and told them both to behave until after they had conquered Kattegat.



Well, Brunhilda hasn't taken sh*t from anyone. Least from the gods. So, putting herself in between the blades and then giving a good bollocking on both lover was right. I laughed my ass off on the scene, and then on the decision, "maybe we shouldn't fight." 

It's just ever it's going to be very hard for Harald to now act properly when he's in need. There's not going to be a good fight, when all he can think is shagging the lady or stabbing Björn so that he can have sex.


REBerg said:


> The brothers' alliance was predictable, but I still wonder if the flip-flopping King Olaf will side with them or Ivar when they march on Kattegat.



Don't be afraid Ivar hasn't been in Olaf sauna. Olaf is not going to turn. As soon as he sees Ivar's statues and hears tales from the citizens he will be confirm. Buddha won't disappoint.


----------



## REBerg

*5.20 Ragnarok*
Super sword-clashing season finale.


Spoiler



I am extremely disappointed that Ivar escaped. I'd hoped for some new conflict in the final season.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S05E20 - Ragnarok



All hail King Björn!

It has been a long time making but finally Björn isn't without a kingdom. Although I don't think he ever believed that he would reach the point, where the people would call him as a King. It's even stranger custom that one would be crowned after a battle, but I guess that's how it happened.

We are just so custom these days that the Royalties don't change after clashes. We are even more custom that those crownheads don't participate in the breakthrough battles, because of their sensitive status. Yet, back in the day, you'd hardly have a conflict without some noble taking part into swinging swords, or barking orders at the barriers.

I guess war changes. It certainly isn't like that at modern times. Vikings are lucky that they didn't invent gun powder or ventured far enough into the east to steal it from the Chinese, because that sort of war would have terrible. No walls could have stopped their advance, and our world would look certainly different.

Maybe it is a luck that we have such a low birthrates, because if the North had been full of people, the world would have changed more quickly. Can you imagine what North America would look like after the Viking invasion? 

I certainly cannot.



REBerg said:


> I am extremely disappointed that Ivar escaped. I'd hoped for some new conflict in the final season.



When you lose your powerbase, how do you build up from it? Most of the people in Norway, Sweden and Denmark would have heard about Ivar the snake, and they would recognise him through his limping. He would have to stay in the shadows, out from sight of anyone who would recognise. It is not an ideal position for recruiting, but it is ideal if you can make yourself to be a criminal mastermind. 

In that way you might get enough of men, especially skilled in assassinations, but it would be very hard to push yourself up and back to be a god at Kattagat. Why would those people elect him to be their leader again?


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



I couldn't believe that Hvitrserk, especially after learning of Flora's (Thora?) fate, didn't tear all of Kattegat apart until he found Ivar and executed what he believes is his destiny.
It was also lamentable that Freydis did not live to see Ivar die, which is bound to happen eventually. Apparently she had a death wish, or she would not have remained in Kattegat after her betrayal. The strangulation scene went on too long, for my tastes.
Speaking of secret back doors, how could a mind capable of conceiving a surprise second gate
fail to post at least one guard on such a weak spot in the defenses? Further proof that Ivar is not the military tactical genius he thinks he is.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> It was also lamentable that Freydis did not live to see Ivar die, which is bound to happen eventually. Apparently she had a death wish, or she would not have remained in Kattegat after her betrayal.



Hell hath no fury over woman scorned... you must have heard that phrase before. That is how I see it. Ivar killed their son and she could not forgive. She knew what she was doing when she went into the opposition camp. She knew the risk and she was willing to take it for a revenge.



REBerg said:


> Speaking of secret back doors, how could a mind capable of conceiving a surprise second gate fail to post at least one guard on such a weak spot in the defenses? Further proof that Ivar is not the military tactical genius he thinks he is.



Freydis said: "Ivar built it for himself." 

What I don't understand is why Björn had not learned from the Paris assault? They went into Kattagat without much of plan, completely believing that they could crash through the gates and just take it. Why is that we had lost the knowledge of how to build warmachines, like ballistas and catapults? 

If it had not been that secret exit, they would have lost, because by the time Björn was retreating he had lost his faith, and leader without a faith is no winner. He should had shown more fury, now his victory is a bit lessen as he was willing to give up. Ivar wanted to fight, but he lost all his men, and he saw that the gamble was too more. 

He could have taken Björn in 1vs1 but not all of them.


----------



## REBerg

Ivar could take Bjorn?

Maybe -- with a little help from the Daleks.


----------



## svalbard

How do I do the spoiler thingy again? Want to get in on the party


----------



## ctg

svalbard said:


> How do I do the spoiler thingy again? Want to get in on the party



In the quick reply panel, next to smiley face is a button that shows three dots. It gives you an option to do a spoiler. It'll ask if you want to title it, which you don't have to, but afterwards as you click through, you'll get an option to write within spoiler brackets. That will show to the people as a spoiler button, when you post.


----------



## svalbard

Spoiler



That was the best episode of the season. I really enjoyed King Olav's description of Ragnarok and his speech during the battle. Poor old King Harald is really a sucker for unattainable beautiful women. The only reason he saves Bjorn is because Gunnhild is looking on. Or that is my reading of it. And all he gets is a knife in the chest for a reward. Harald the Luckless is what he should be called. Still my favourite character of the last few seasons. 

Ivarr escapes. Historically he was supposed to be the founder of the Viking kingdom of Dublin but who knows where this show is going. He was also supposed to bethe leader of the The Great Heathen Army that pillaged Wessex during Alfred's reign, along with Ubbe, Guthrum and Halfdan. Will we get to see some of that now that Ubbe is back in Kattegat. His renouncing of his new Christian faith last week does not bode well for his alliance with Alfred.

Overall I would give Season 5 a B - grade. Mainly for spending too long on Ivarr, in Iceland and a rather silly Wessex storyline./SPOILER]


----------



## REBerg

svalbard said:


> How do I do the spoiler thingy again? Want to get in on the party





Spoiler


----------



## Judderman

Last episode was fun overall.


Spoiler



I agree with a lot of the comments above. Bjorn was exceptionally lucky to win the battle due to Ivar having angered his wife days beforehand and therefore giving Bjorn a great tip. I was hoping the next season would focus on a battle vs Harald rather than more with Ivar. Though the seasons are so long that may well happen for some episodes. Though King Harald should live on beyond the timeline of this show.


----------



## -K2-

So, the next season is about to start here tonight in a few minutes.  I'm beginning to debate whether or not I want to spend the time. It was good and interesting, then lost my attention, and then you know how it goes... you watch because you have so much time invested you want to get to the end. But, some of these series drag on so long and become so similar from season to season, it makes me wonder if there might be better things to do (like that's really an 'if').

Anywho, I'll see how tonight is... then I'll see. 

K2


----------



## REBerg

-K2- said:


> So, the next season is about to start here tonight in a few minutes.  I'm beginning to debate whether or not I want to spend the time. It was good and interesting, then lost my attention, and then you know how it goes... you watch because you have so much time invested you want to get to the end. But, some of these series drag on so long and become so similar from season to season, it makes me wonder if there might be better things to do (like that's really an 'if').
> 
> Anywho, I'll see how tonight is... then I'll see.
> 
> K2


I had no idea when the final season was going to start. Thanks. The DVR has been set.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S06E01 - New Beginnings



Ivar made it all the way to China! I would have never guessed it been the case, but it kind of fits the picture as they have found graves of tall, Nordic types at Himalayan mountains. The intriguing bit about those are the fact that among the blond haired individuals were some of the ginger people, pointing out to the possibility that the Celts might have also have made it over there as well. Only this case, Ivar made his way to Ukraine, and became an Igor for the local king. 

I think he's much better in the role of an advisor than holding the reins of power. On the other hand, Björn also has a problem with the same thing. Maybe the biggest trouble is that he doesn't have advisors, as Ragnar is in Valhalla and Lagatha is the next. In fact, so far, all of them have had to climb mountains of trouble in their times, so in that way Björn is no different. He just need to understand that he cannot be a king and the government at the same time. No man can rule everything. 

It is an impossible task, but there also lies the problem as who to choose, what place they get, and how to power is handed down to the next generation. Maybe that's why Shakespeare like to write about the Danish courts and their ghosts. There are certainly a lot of them wandering around the Scandinavia. But it surprised me that they brought in the Russian Vikings. 

I cannot recall ever reading about them, as I always assumed that those who rode down the river Volga to raid Persia were Nordics, and not Russians. Maybe the intriguing bit is that our cultural heritage fights against that thing and it might be an ancient reason why we have fought them so long time. 

While they didn't showed England or France in this episode, can we start to assume that they are going to move towards the period of Norman conquests and the writing of the Magna Carte?


----------



## REBerg

I've really missed this show!


Spoiler: 6.01 New Beginnings



The episode was quick to remind us that the era was one of incredible violence. Ivar's henchman was tortured and literally torn apart for information he could not provide.
In contrast, the hot air balloon ride was a hoot. Ivar is far from divine, but he certainly leads a charmed life.
Somehow, I don't think Lagertha is going to be allowed to indulge her longing for the past and return to simple farm life. I noticed that she didn't bury her sword very deeply.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> I've really missed this show!



Wait, there's more. It was a double episode. I just learned about it this morning. 



Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Somehow, I don't think Lagertha is going to be allowed to indulge her longing for the past and return to simple farm life. I noticed that she didn't bury her sword very deeply.



Historically they would have thrown it at water, to be done with it completely. So, I think you are right.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Wait, there's more. It was a double episode. I just learned about it this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Historically they would have thrown it at water, to be done with it completely. So, I think you are right.


I noticed. They put out the first three episodes of the season here. I've only watched the first.


----------



## ctg

REBerg said:


> They put out the first three episodes of the season here.



Three!!! Man, what is happening? What is surprising me is that they are showing the whole Eastern angle to the play.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: S06E02 - Prophet



Happy Finnish Independence day. We have been putting up our neighbors behavior for a long time and fought more wars then we would like to admit. But what you see in the small screen is what usually happens. The cold North is a harsh place and the acts causing misery is all too common. It's not just about nine months of cold and darkness, because there are awfully lot of things that becomes tragedies. 

It's just the way how the life is in Scandinavia. You see outside the polished picture about everything being fine, but underneath all that glitter and smiles are dark things. Some people cannot hack that the betrayal plays in a major role. With the neighbor it might as well be in the main role, as it's the way of life. 

I don't really know how far back in the history you'll have to go to get at the roots of all things, but for our Igor, the future doesn't look rosy. He might think he's in safe at the Prophet's court, but the truth is he has no friends. Only enemies. Another truth is Ivar might like being in that place, as he might even feel homey for being among a psychopath. Maybe that's why Prophet saved him and didn't execute him in the way he did to Ivar's friend. 

Intriguing bit is that like in the real life, most of the Russians were shocked by the brutality, but not so much that they would have panicked. It was as if it was a common place to have a mass murder among the celebrations. It is intriguing to think that it happened over the boy, destined to become Emperor. It has never been a good place to be in Russian history. Too many of them died, or were murdered, as it is a tradition. 

With them you'll have to always be strong and show your strengths, while expecting to get a knife in the back. 

Björn could never navigate that sort of world, so it's good to see Igor in his element. 

The question about Harald, Björn made the right decision by going for help, but in diplomacy wise he should go to see the other king as well, or at least find out about his side.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> Three!!! Man, what is happening? What is surprising me is that they are showing the whole Eastern angle to the play.


I may be wrong about that. The third recording on my DVR is "Saga of Floki" or something like that. It might be just a character-centric recap, like they did with Lagertha a season or two back.


----------



## -K2-

After some fact checking, I was very surprised to find that the Rus' People were not just some fantastic tale to advance the story. Interesting... but, I'm still debating watching.  It's a well executed show and all that, and I get how to each of us our community is the center of the world, but it's becoming a little tiring how everyone in the world wants Kattegat.

K2


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.02 The Prophet



Wow! Apparently blood is thinner than psychopathy in the Vikings family eastern branch. I guess Kiev is not the original City of Brotherly Love.
I can't imagine for a moment that Oleg has a slightest interest in restoring Ivar's rule over Kattegat. Maybe Oleg just needs a fresh group of victims to torture and slaughter.
I wonder why Ivar felt a need to entertain Igor with lame magic tricks. I'm also wondering how Igor ends up becoming Dr. Frankenstein's faithful lab assistant.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I can't imagine for a moment that Oleg has a slightest interest in restoring Ivar's rule over Kattegat. Maybe Oleg just needs a fresh group of victims to torture and slaughter.
> I wonder why Ivar felt a need to entertain Igor with lame magic tricks. I'm also wondering how Igor ends up becoming Dr. Frankenstein's faithful lab assistant.



It would certainly be a turn of events if Ivar overturned the Russian Vikings and started raiding the Scandinavia. But in the regards of the parlor tricks, I think it's related to his role as a false god. He cannot produce the real thing, so it has to be parlor tricks.


----------



## REBerg

*Saga of Floki*
This turns out to be more of a recap of Season 5  -- mixed with promotions for the final season.
Floki may have been given a fraction more screen time here than other central characters. It did make wonder if insanity is a help or a hindrance for a visionary attempting to form a new, improved society. The less than ideal climatic conditions of Floki's promised paradise didn't improve his odds of success.
This should have been run before History launched season 6. Maybe it ran, but I missed it.


----------



## svalbard

The first 2 episodes were good. I like Oleg's character. He and Ivar are two peas in a pod. Time and distances are a bit of problem similar to other shows of this ilk. Oleg and Ivar must teleported from Kiev to Novgorod.

I wonder will they stay faithful to history with Igor. Interestingly there are some theories that Askold was actually Hvitserk or a son of Hvitserk.


----------



## ctg

I think they will focus on russia first and then swing back to Iceland and the conquest of "the wineland."


----------



## REBerg




----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.03 Ghosts, Gods and Running Dogs



Holy depravity! Ivar is no match for Oleg, which Ivar seems to be realizing as he observes what Oleg has done to another brother.
Bjorn has discovered, in his attempt to rescue King Harald, that King Olaf is a more formidable tactician than he had anticipated. Nothing like a nighttime swim in a burning ring of fire under a rain of arrows to begin an invasion. I don't think Bjorn arrived for battle with a plan B.
I suspect that Lagertha will not be with series much longer. Her reclaimed sword may be as deadly as ever, but she is not the shield maiden she once was.
Bjorn's kingly choice of war over commerce may lead to sacrificing both Kattegat and his mother.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> Holy depravity! Ivar is no match for Oleg, which Ivar seems to be realizing as he observes what Oleg has done to another brother.



I think they are on bar as both has done equally horrible things. That brother is not going to last long, if those facial wounds get infected. If he lives, there is a chance that he will commit a revenge killing. But I feel there is also a small chance that Igor will change his mind and allow him to live. 



REBerg said:


> Bjorn has discovered, in his attempt to rescue King Harald, that King Olaf is a more formidable tactician than he had anticipated. Nothing like a nighttime swim in a burning ring of fire under a rain of arrows to begin an invasion. I don't think Bjorn arrived for battle with a plan B.



He is not his father, but then again, Ragnar was never a great tacticians. I don't understand why he didn't used scouts, when hunting played such a huge role in our past. It is a basic strategy, and it could have warned about the trap. But most of all, he should have used diplomacy first if he really wants to make Kattagat a great trading city. That too requires scouting, and making deals through diplomacy. 

It's like he needs Olaf to teach him a few things. Murder without knowledge is not a good thing. I hope he'll survive with just a single sauna trip. It's just I'm afraid that it won't be enough. 



REBerg said:


> I suspect that Lagertha will not be with series much longer. Her reclaimed sword may be as deadly as ever, but she is not the shield maiden she once was.



We see. My money is on Lagatha. She will show those outriders the reason for why she's called Queen Lagatha.


----------



## REBerg

ctg said:


> He is not his father, but then again, Ragnar was never a great tacticians.


True. Ragnar had his problems with Paris. 



Spoiler



He had to fake conversion to Christianity and his death to get inside the city in a coffin. One of the best moments of the series.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> He had to fake conversion to Christianity and his death to get inside the city in a coffin. One of the best moments of the series.



True but he had so many failings before hand. Winning one or two battles isn't a victory. Raiding Paris was poorly executed and he couldn't hold the land. Then again, he didn't use scouts either. It's like none of them have understood the value on intelligence.  The outrider boss however is doing it correctly.


----------



## svalbard

I liked Ubbe's speech. He has all the characteristics to make a good king.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.04 All the Prisoners



Wow! I suppose butchering all ages in a village raid was standard operating procedure for Vikings, but the killing of small children was hard to watch.
Also getting hard to watch is Hvitserk's tortured madness. I thought Ubbe was going to put his brother out his misery when he blew his latest chance for redemption.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler: 6.05 The Key



Naga Ivar!

It's quite unbelivable that a naga made a way into the Vikings series, even though the presentation fits picture. He is a serpent, and there is no bone in his body that is good. I am certain that even though he helped the Russian to escape it was a certain death. I cannot figure out how he managed to bring that woman in the town and then set her free in the winter wonderland. How did he communicate and organise the group to commit to the plan?

Everything that he's doing against the Prophet is just aiding scandinavia, and therefore his family, instead of him. He might get close to Igor, but it's not like Ivar is holding any power or have I completely misunderstood the plot?

I regards of the plot, Olaf was so disappointed, when they suggested for a vote, instead of just appointing Björn to the throne. I was even more surprised when they brought in the context Sweden and Denmark. Back then, Sweden just occupied a bit of land at the South and it mostly remained so until fifteen hundreds, when they started to invade Finnish tribal areas. Denmark was a bit larger than what it is today. 

What surprised me was that the vote was cast between the Yarls and Kings, without much of backstabbing involved. If I compare them to England, they look almost civilised in their ways. I'm certain that there is going to be some sort of hand-to-hand challenge from the other king. He sounded a bit too dodgy with his English accent and pleasentries for letting Björn to rule just like that. 

Olaf said that the sack has to be empty for the King to take place. If one vote is cast from a different sack then what happens?


----------



## ctg

Holy Smoke. The best episode in this season!



Spoiler: 6.06 The Death and The Serpent



I am shocked and I'm also sure that at some point they did tell us about Lagatha's prophesy. None of us remembered it, even though we should have. But that's the thing. This series is so brilliant, and in some way so predictable. Like for example I knew she was going to die as soon as I saw the wound on her side, and her sticking a finger in it. 

What I couldn't guess was the way she was going to go down, because I was so certain that blood poisoning was going to put her down. There's no way they could have handled that infection and as she was an elder person, her system would have been weak. But then again, she was cursed. In fact, i feel they are all jinxed by the gods. They all have a role to play.

Including that Eric in the boat. I believe that Björn is going to take them to Iceland and then to mystical Vineland. The reason is Eric. 

History channel had another viking document about the Oak Island mystery and in them, they mentioned Eric making the settlement. For the story to work, Harold is going to earn his reputation as the folk hero king, Björn sails to North and then West, and Ubbe to East. At some point though Hivtserk is going to end back in the England as part of the Great Heathen army. 

It is interesting that Olaf the Smiling Buddha didn't see things turning against his wishes. In some other reality Björn would have followed his wishes and become the King of Norway. Now, he has his own destiny to make. Especially as mum is going to receive a honorary burial. 

Oh, what a glorious season this has been!

About the fight in the village. I wondered in the last episode what they were building, and I never guessed it was going to be a murder castle. The Outlaws really fell for it. There was nothing that could have saved them. Well, nothing other than running.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



Shocked is the right word! I was expecting Lagertha's story to end this season, but I didn't expect her to go out like that.

She barely survives her heroic battle with White Hair, bleeds her way back to Kattegat, only to be finished by Hvitserk, who is under the delusion that he his knifing a serpentine Ivar. Lagertha deserved a more honorable ending than that. I vaguely remember the prophesy that she would be killed by a son of Ragnar Lothbrok. I naturally assumed that son would be Ivar.

I see a just balance in the situations faced by the brothers. Hvitserk has been driven mad by the ghost of Thora, the girlfriend Ivar burned alive. Ivar is facing a living ghost in Oleg's new bride, Katya  who he believes to be Freydis, the wife Ivar revenge-strangled (both played by Alicia Agneson). Ivar's questionable grip on sanity was not improved by Oleg's insistence that Ivar witness his marriage consummation. Katya's beaming smile for Ivar during the act indicated that she's in on the torturous joke.

I was surprised that making false political promises to get elected goes all the way back to Viking times. Harald Finehair (how did such a ratty-haired guy get a name like that?) was clearly a more skilled politician than Bjorn. I was not surprised that the seemingly amicable transition of power so quickly reverted back to murderous Viking norms. I would imagine that King Harald would also want to kill off King Olaf as much as Bjorn, the outgoing king's hand-picked successor.


----------



## ctg

Amazing episode! Especially the valkyrie scene.



Spoiler: S06E07 - The Ice Maiden



Farewell Fair Queen Lagatha. You serve a good long life, and you were a champion at the end. A true maiden from ice and fire. With her passing we say goodbye to the oldest cast member still in the roster. I cannot think anyone who has been there for longer, as she showed up in the episode 1. Everyone else has gone to Valhalla.

Personally I don't accept the human sacrifice, but it was their way of life. It's what they believed. I am however intrigued by Hel coming to deliver death to the Chosen One. It is one of the rare visitations by the gods. So far we have seen Odin, the seer, Freya and now Hel. And then there is the Christ. 

It is kind of ironic that Ivar is now being temped by the Christ healing, even though he's firmly believing in himself. He doesn't have the seed of faith. But somehow he is on that road, and even though he could have perished on his way to Kiev, he survived. And he prospered, got a position in the court, and he's doing absolutely wonderfully. Maybe even better than he had things going for him the Kattagat. 

This episode feels in many ways like it's a turning point, or an end of a chapter. So many things have ended, and yet the life goes on despite Olaf feeling cheated. Thing is Vikings were smart and they couldn't help themselves, because with that intelligence comes all the other things. It enables you to survive, where some others would whine and die.

The winter is harsh in the north. It does not forgive. It takes you to darkness and won't let go until a first light of spring start melt snow away. And so the life goes on, with new beginning. The problem with the Winter and Björn losing his position to Harald is that he cannot really cross the Sea of Norway at this point. It would a suicide. 

He has no choice but to wait and hunt for mother's murderer. Am I only one who's feeling that Harald is not going to wait for him to leave?


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler



What an incredibly emotional and much-deserved sendoff for Lagertha.
The grief came in waves, as each of the key characters said their farewells. The only relief from the sorrow were the scenes advancing the stories of Ivar and Harald. 
The departure of Katheryn Winnick from the cast leaves as another gaping hole in the show, perhaps even bigger than that left by Travis Fimmel when his character, Ragnar Lothbrok, was killed in season 4. The surviving cast will have to pick up the slack in the remaining 13 episodes of the series.


ctg said:


> Personally I don't accept the human sacrifice


Where was the body of the poor girl they sacrificed to accompany Lagertha to Valhalla? Shouldn't she have been aboard the funeral ship to fulfill her next life duties?


----------



## svalbard

The last two episodes have being some of the finest in the whole series. Incredible payoff on the earlier prophecies.


----------



## ctg

svalbard said:


> The last two episodes have being some of the finest in the whole series. Incredible payoff on the earlier prophecies.



I couldn't remember any of them. It's amazing that the Seer still appears to Ironside family. He's like that bad penny. Every time he appears something bad is about to happen. There is never good news.


----------



## REBerg




----------



## -K2-

Wow... Go Uber! Such restraint and such aim. That was some...

Watching the next episode as I type this. Missed it last night. Whoops, back at it!

K2


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.08 Valhalla Can Wait



I did not expect the last-second reprieve for Hvitserk. Bjorn apparently decided that his half-brother was enjoying being an "instrument of the Gods" a little too much. Banishing Hvitsek to the wilderness to suffer may not work out any better than Bjorn's outlawing Ivar's ex-henchmen.
I wonder how much of Bjorn's rage is derived from Hvitsek's killing of Lagertha and how much from losing the King of All Norway election to Harald. His mood didn't seem much improved by Gunnhild's declaration that he will now have two wives after she caught him in flagrante delicto with Ingrid.
On top of all this, poor Bjorn got the bad news that the new King of Norway will be coming for Kattegat. The only good news was that his followers are ready to go down with him.
I don't understand why Oleg sent raiding parties to murder and pillage in Vikings territory. Wouldn't it have been better to secretly scout for strengths and weaknesses instead of warn them of a threat? Harald's border patrol didn't look very formidable, even it had arrived at the village a few minutes ahead of the Cossacks. I mean, just look at those hats!
I suspect that Ubbe and family decided to go to Iceland because both he had gotten comfortable on the Kattegat throne while Bjorn was on his quest. With Bjorn back, Ubbe was jobless and Iceland might need a king. I can see why Flatnose might not be OK with that.
Will anyone discover what happened to Floki?
The high point of this episode for me came when Oleg stomped Igor's creepy little puppet to pieces. Both the kid and the puppet have long had it coming. Ivar is definitely a bad influence on the boy.


----------



## ctg

Spoiler






REBerg said:


> I wonder how much of Bjorn's rage is derived from Hvitsek's killing of Lagertha and how much from losing the King of All Norway election to Harald.



He is hurting, that is certain. Losing his kingdom, his title, his mother, his son and then his wife is certain to drive man into the bottle. But he is not his father or any of his brothers. So far he has been kind of good king, and horribly lost in his job. The important thing is that he has a golden heart and I doubt he would have been able to watch Hvitsek dying in fire, but at the same time he cannot lose his face. Somehow he has to remain in his seat and find a way to get on Harald's good side. 



REBerg said:


> On top of all this, poor Bjorn got the bad news that the new King of Norway will be coming for Kattegat.



He is assuming it. He didn't get the news, but it is safe to assume that the seat of power will remain in Kattegat?



REBerg said:


> I don't understand why Oleg sent raiding parties to murder and pillage in Vikings territory. Wouldn't it have been better to secretly scout for strengths and weaknesses instead of warn them of a threat? Harald's border patrol didn't look very formidable, even it had arrived at the village a few minutes ahead of the Cossacks. I mean, just look at those hats!



I don't think it was Olag who sent the raiders. They were certainly coming from Russia or rather Kiev, Ukraine and to get to Norway, they would have had to ride all the way up to Finnish Lapland, then through Sweden, climb the mountains and then finally commit to the raid. It would be much easier if they would have boats. The problem is I don't know if the raid was historical. 



REBerg said:


> Will anyone discover what happened to Floki?



I don't think so. He will be lost forever.


----------



## svalbard

ctg said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> He is hurting, that is certain. Losing his kingdom, his title, his mother, his son and then his wife is certain to drive man into the bottle. But he is not his father or any of his brothers. So far he has been kind of good king, and horribly lost in his job. The important thing is that he has a golden heart and I doubt he would have been able to watch Hvitsek dying in fire, but at the same time he cannot lose his face. Somehow he has to remain in his seat and find a way to get on Harald's good side.
> 
> 
> 
> He is assuming it. He didn't get the news, but it is safe to assume that the seat of power will remain in Kattegat?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think it was Olag who sent the raiders. They were certainly coming from Russia or rather Kiev, Ukraine and to get to Norway, they would have had to ride all the way up to Finnish Lapland, then through Sweden, climb the mountains and then finally commit to the raid. It would be much easier if they would have boats. The problem is I don't know if the raid was historical.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. He will be lost forever.




The geography is all over the place as are the timeframes. It is a bit like AGOTS that way. It is like clicking your heels and your there. However this is a cracking season. Much better than what I was expecting. For the first time in the whole series we are seeing proper character development for the Sons of Ragnar.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.09 Resurrection



Hah! I thought that Oleg had announced he was sending raiding parties into Viking territory. Consequently, the Vikings are on high alert, and Harald and Bjorn are being pushed into what is certain to be an uneasy alliance.

As ferocious as the Vikings may be, they don’t look like much of a force compared to that partial army Oleg put on display. Holy Unsullied!

The reunion of Ivar and Hvitserk seemed improbable and anticlimactic. Has Hvitserk forgotten that Ivar burned his girlfriend alive and drove him into Cuckoosville, or is he now content to taunt Ivar with the fact that he killed Lagertha?


----------



## -K2-

REBerg said:


> Spoiler: 6.09 Resurrection
> 
> 
> 
> Hah! I thought that Oleg had announced he was sending raiding parties into Viking territory. Consequently, the Vikings are on high alert, and Harald and Bjorn are being pushed into what is certain to be an uneasy alliance.
> 
> As ferocious as the Vikings may be, they don’t look like much of a force compared to that partial army Oleg put on display. Holy Unsullied!
> 
> The reunion of Ivar and Hvitserk seemed improbable and anticlimactic. Has Hvitserk forgotten that Ivar burned his girlfriend alive and drove him into Cuckoosville, or is he now content to taunt Ivar with the fact that he killed Lagertha?





Spoiler: How soon we forget...



It is a little surprising how at ease Hvitserk suddenly is after all of his drama. 



K2


----------



## svalbard

-K2- said:


> Spoiler: How soon we forget...
> 
> 
> 
> It is a little surprising how at ease Hvitserk suddenly is after all of his drama.
> 
> 
> 
> K2



Look at close up of his face after he taunts Ivar. He is far from at ease. Still very much a haunted man.

Good to see Titus Pullo back on the screen.


----------



## REBerg




----------



## ctg

Spoiler



Appleston. Man, he is still alive and he killed to steal an identity to get back in the North. I just never thought that he would end in Iceland, far away from Norway and ever growing Sweden. I also liked that they named the Russian as a Christian, but they didn't know that it was the eastern sect of the old Rome. So much of the past and its wonder had been forgotten, lost because of the turmoils of the middle-ages. 

It is also interesting that they hinted about invading whole Scandinavia, where usually the end stop is Norway. Beyond that it's England and Iceland. But so far it has never happened. Tried, many times. So many times in fact that we are naturally suspicious to anything related to Russia. Back then, no peace, no diplomacy, just endless waves of invasions and Sweden getting stronger. 

There was huge time jumps in this episode as back then it would have taken weeks to get back to Kiev from Norway's coastline. So in terms of time, even though it was edited together, a lot of time passed. Yet, everything remained the same. King Harald is still stupid. Björn and his boys are shock troops, elite fighters, but they don't have the numbers to match thirty thousand men. We never have had that situation. 

Not even in the modern times. But we have always developed tactics, strategies and technology to be better than them. Even today the only reason for invasion is technology. The history has shown us that Sweden became a major party in the arms manufacturing. And that's all related to the invasions. Oh, how things would have changed, if we had found and been able to establish a kingdom in America. 

Although the England would still have caused a major problem in the logistics chain.


----------



## ctg




----------



## Judderman

It's been a very enjoyable nine episodes so far of season 6. Definitely better than the second half of season 5 where there was a drop in quality. Still bits of silliness but overall lots going on, and most of it is entertaining and even surprising.



Spoiler: season 6 e1-9 spoilers



Lagertha has been easily the most important character on the Vikings series over the years. Ok, not as important as Ragnar in the first two seasons, but then he went a bit crazy. And he has been out of it a long time. Lagertha has been a rock. A little odd that sometimes they portray her as somewhat aged with a bit of wrinkling but most of the time she looks as before (similar age to her sons) except for her silver hair and a bit more modest outfit.

King Olav was in a great position. He had Harald in prison, and he inflicted a significant defeat on Bjorn. Releasing them both and wanting Bjorn as King of Norway seemed rather naive.

I'm unclear what is going on with Bjorn's wives. Gunhild is going to try to kill bjorn or his new wife. Or perhaps just accuse her of sleeping with someone else, as she clearly hinted at with her storytelling.

Will it be Ivar or Hvitserk who will stop/weaken Oleg's invasion at a crucial point? Oleg's brother must make a return at some point.

For that matter is Rollo going to turn up one more time!? Perhaps his last act was sending his army over in season 5.


----------



## svalbard

All I will say at the moment is Shower and Dallas.

I could be wrong.


----------



## Judderman

All just Athelstan's dream, and the monastery was never attacked.


----------



## REBerg

Spoiler: 6.10 The Best Laid Plans



Bjorn Ironside and his Gods truly have parted ways. Halfway through the final season, he has lost his mother, his Norwegian throne, his baby son, his wife's respect and, apparently, his life.
I'm not sure of the last, though. His surreal conversations with Ivar on the beach while in the midst of the battle with the invaders made me wonder if his death was "real."
If he is gone, that's another big hole in the cast. I don't know how much of Ivar I can handle if he moves to center stage for the rest of the series.


----------



## -K2-

Well, I'm really liking the Gunhild character. I always enjoyed her stoic strength, but in the last few episodes she has really shown her sensitivity as well. Frankly, many of the women have shown themselves to be more in control, focused, and determined than most of the men.

K2


----------



## REBerg




----------



## svalbard

svalbard said:


> All I will say at the moment is Shower and Dallas.
> 
> I could be wrong.



Looking at some of the clips appearing it looks like I was not wrong.


----------



## Judderman

It is but a flesh wound!


----------



## Guttersnipe

I watched this for a series or two, then stopped for whatever reason. As a result, I don't remember much. I did like the use of Old Norse and Old English, and love historical stories that feature cultural clashes, especially between Christians and pagans. The shieldmaiden is badass, what with her easily defeating her would-be ravishers. I also liked how the Vikings clammed up when asked about Ragnarök; nothing is scarier than  gods dying.


----------



## REBerg

Finally!
Looks like the old year could go out with a binge, although not on the History Channel. Amazon Prime.









						Vikings Season 6 Part 2 Will Premiere on Amazon
					

The final 10 episodes will drop on the streaming platform this month




					www.tvguide.com


----------



## Judderman

Excellent!
In some ways I would prefer to watch an episode a week via History channel. But I'm sure I will have watched the whole thing on Amazon by the end of New Year's weekend


----------



## Judderman

Also I missed this news of a few months ago.
A Vikings series set 100 years later. Could have the defeat to William the Conqueror in towards the end.









						Meet the Principal Players in Vikings: Valhalla
					

And get your first look at the Netflix spin-off




					www.tvguide.com


----------



## svalbard

REBerg said:


> Finally!
> Looks like the old year could go out with a binge, although not on the History Channel. Amazon Prime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vikings Season 6 Part 2 Will Premiere on Amazon
> 
> 
> The final 10 episodes will drop on the streaming platform this month
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tvguide.com



Perfect antidote to being locked down for the New Year's Eve.


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## svalbard

This was a good climax to the series. I don't think they could have done a better job. All angles were tied up nicely and there was a certain symmetry to very final scene. Once all the blood was spilt, battles fought, deals done I found myself slightly saddened that my journey with these characters had come to an end. Skoal!


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## Judderman

I just watched the first of the last batch (6 ep11). The main story progressed more than I expected. Great stuff overall. Plenty of drama.
Iceland side story still a weight on the show though.


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## Judderman

6 12 was pretty good too. Less action, but some good drama. Even a bit of intrigue in the Iceland part.


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## svalbard

Judderman said:


> 6 12 was pretty good too. Less action, but some good drama. Even a bit of intrigue in the Iceland part.



Kejtil Faltnose is an absolute fruit cake.


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## Judderman

He didn't say a huge amount in that episode. In earlier years he seemed reasonable. Maybe Loki influenced him the wrong way!


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## svalbard

Judderman said:


> He didn't say a huge amount in that episode. In earlier years he seemed reasonable. Maybe Loki influenced him the wrong way!



Just wait...


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## REBerg

Spoiler: A long-winded look at episodes 6.11-6.20



For a series that  had lost most of its central characters by the end of its run, these final 10 episodes deserve a place in Valhalla.


The death of Bjorn Ironside was creatively done. Instead of letting a legendary Viking warrior languish on his deathbed, they saddled him up one more time to spook the invading Rus into believing he had risen from the dead to lead the defending forces – all without the aid of duct tape. It was heroic trick worthy of Ragnar himself.


Gunnhild was another class exit. Faced with being forced to be one of King Harald's bride queens, she opted to swim out to Valhalla and join her now officially dead husband, Bjorn. She managed to make suicide look sadly beautiful.


That left Harald with bride number two, Ingrid, the witch. I laughed when Harald later noted that he has never had much luck with women.


Neither did his appointed representative, Erik, whom she blinded and arranged to meet the business end of a pitchfork. She really wasn't into sharing power –  not with the man who had enslaved her, anyway.


Character deaths were so prevalent throughout these last episodes that Ivar's blue-eyed, bone-breaking demise in the big battle was something of an anti-climax. He had seemed to be undergoing a maturing transformation during his time with the Rus and befriending of young Prince Igor. Even Hvitserk  thought that his crazy, wife-killing brother had changed.


No so much. Once a Viking, it would seem, always a Viking.


That made me wonder how well Hvitserk integrated into Saxon society once he had converted to Christianity. Beats beheading, I guess.


On the hopeful side of the dying Viking way of life was Ubbe's quest to find the fabled land to the west. His Greenland stay was bizarre but brief, before his nearly dead boatload of refugees finally washed up on North American shores.


I feared that things would end just as badly in the New World after the brain-dead member of Ubbe's band, Naad, contracted a case murderous gold fever. I thought: “What the hell does he plan to do with gold? Sail back home with it?” He was clearly unable to adapt to his new circumstances.


Ubbe made a wise decision to simply slash Naad's throat instead of following through with the ceremonial blood eagle path to Valhalla. He was obviously undeserving.


It was great to see Floki again, although his explanation of how he got to North America by finding a boat was a stretch As I remember, he was trapped in an Iceland cave with a collection of Christian artifacts when last seen.


It seemed that the real reason to bring Floki back was to represent the old, with Ubbe representing the new, as both sat on a New World beach in the final scene – watching the sun set on the Golden Age of the Vikings.


It will be interesting to see how much of this epic series is incorporated into Vikings: Vahalla when it comes to Netflix late this year.
For a series that  had lost most of its central characters by the end of its run, these final 10 episodes deserve a place in Valhalla.


The death of Bjorn Ironside was creatively done. Instead of letting a legendary Viking warrior languish on his deathbed, they saddled him up one more time to spook the invading Rus into believing he had risen from the dead to lead the defending forces – all without the aid of duct tape. It was heroic trick worthy of Ragnar himself.


Gunnhild was another class exit. Faced with being forced to be one of King Harald's bride queens, she opted to swim out to Valhalla and join her now officially dead husband, Bjorn. She managed to make suicide look sadly beautiful.


That left Harald with bride number two, Ingrid, the witch. I laughed when Harald later noted that he has never had much luck with women.


Neither did his appointed representative, Erik, whom she blinded and arranged to meet the business end of a pitchfork. She really wasn't into sharing power –  not with the man who had enslaved her, anyway.


Character deaths were so prevalent throughout these last episodes that Ivar's blue-eyed, bone-breaking demise in the big battle was something of an anti-climax. He had seemed to be undergoing a maturing transformation during his time with the Rus and befriending of young Prince Igor. Even Hvitserk  thought that his crazy, wife-killing brother had changed.


No so much. Once a Viking, it would seem, always a Viking.


That made me wonder how well Hvitserk integrated into Saxon society once he had converted to Christianity. Beats beheading, I guess.


On the hopeful side of the dying Viking way of life was Ubbe's quest to find the fabled land to the west. His Greenland stay was bizarre but brief, before his nearly dead boatload of refugees finally washed up on North American shores.


I feared that things would end just as badly in the New World after the brain-dead member of Ubbe's band, Naad, contracted a case murderous gold fever. I thought: “What the hell does he plan to do with gold? Sail back home with it?” He was clearly unable to adapt to his new circumstances.


Ubbe made a wise decision to simply slash Naad's throat instead of following through with the ceremonial blood eagle path to Valhalla. He was obviously undeserving.


It was great to see Floki again, although his explanation of how he got to North America by finding a boat was a stretch As I remember, he was trapped in an Iceland cave with a collection of Christian artifacts when last seen.


It seemed that the real reason to bring Floki back was to represent the old, with Ubbe representing the new, as both sat on a New World beach in the final scene – watching the sun set on the Golden Age of the Vikings.


It will be interesting to see how much of this epic series is incorporated into Vikings: Vahalla when it comes to Netflix late this year. (Netflix's 'Vikings: Valhalla' Season 1: Everything We Know So Far - What's on Netflix) /


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## REBerg




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## Judderman

Overall a very good last ten episode run (second half of season 6). A lot of great entertainment in there. Action and drama. That said, there was a bit of a rush late on and I thought the finale was a disappointment. Broadly agree with Reberg's comments.



Spoiler: Spoilers/comments on s06e11-20



Bjorn's final actions were done in a suitably legendary way. Doesn't give in until he can't sit up. That did lose one of the best characters (after Ragnar and Lagertha) with several episodes to go. 
The Russian story was decent, and Oleg was compelling. Though Oleg's end seemed a bit too easy. Bad rulers sometimes have their people turn against them, so still made sense. But was he really that hated?
Hvitserk was revitalized as a warrior. Seemed content to do little outside of the battle field.
Gunnhild's suicide was done beautifully if you can say that for a suicide.
King Harald's death was a little underwhelming as he was wandering about on his own foolishly. But I like that he took his killer down too. The preceding battle was well staged.
Ivar's death wasn't quite the raging way I would have expected. Was nice to see the show's overlap with The Last Kingdom (with King Alfred).
The Iceland-Greenland-and beyond voyage dragged further. Distracted from the characters we wanted to see. But at least they finally got to Newfoundland! Interesting for me as I read a bit about this recently, and am also moving to St John's, Newfoundland this summer. Though I believe the scenes were Ireland. In reality apparently there was a lot of fighting between Vikings and natives (probably started by Vikings), which is part of the reason few if any Vikings settled permanently. Would have been fun to see Uber and the others attack like would have happened in season 1! And then driven off by a larger bunch of natives to tell their tales. Considering all the wait through this storyline it didn't really pay off. More like just something the writers thought should be in there, as Vikings travelled a lot.
The biggest disappointment was Queen Ingrid ending on the Kattegat throne. She was never a character we were supposed to like. So she blinded her co-leader (who was another filler character) and then got her reward as ruler. OK.. Well at least we know the Vikings story will continue offscreen with Hvitserk et al.
But despite the weak last episode there were lots of good points in these episodes. Great series!


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## Judderman

I must admit I missed the origin of one of the character's - 



Spoiler: mysterious viking



The viking Christian character with Ubbe who apparently took someone else's identity. Was there more background other than he turned up and said he had already been to the new land in the west?


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## ctg

I leave this here






also I still haven't watched the final season. There are no excuses. I just have been avoiding seeing it.


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