# "Did that thing really sink?"



## Metryq (Apr 10, 2012)

"Those who cannot remember history are destined to repeat it," right?

*Thought the Titanic Disaster Was Just a Movie*

That's right, and _WAR OF THE WORLDS_ and _GOOD NIGHT, AND GOOD LUCK_ were real history, too.


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## RJM Corbet (Apr 10, 2012)

Oh no! You mean _Avatar _was ... real?


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## Bowler1 (Apr 10, 2012)

Is anything real, is this the matrix?

Good link however.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Apr 11, 2012)

"There goes my last drop of hope for humanity, wasted forever, like the oxygen these people breathe."


This one sentence of his sums up my entire view on the human race in general. 


How idiotic can someone get? Next they'll be asking if the United States Civil War was real or just an idea to have popped into someone's head for movies.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 11, 2012)

Careful, Karn. Don't write anything about the United States Civil War. It's not in the public domain yet.


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## mosaix (Apr 11, 2012)

For a lot of people, life consists of 'being entertained'. Everything they see and hear is entertainment. Not for one second do they imagine that some of that entertainment is based on fact.

On the other side of the coin I used to work with two fairly 'intelligent' people in their mid-twenties who thought that _Close Encounters_ was based on fact. So, I suppose, we just can't win. 

I suppose it comes down to education in the end. I do remember that my history classes were very boring and poorly taught. I was saved by having a good set of encyclopaedias at home. Nowadays kids have the internet and the problem with that is that the truth and the rest of the rubbish carry the same weight.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 11, 2012)

History was once written by the winners.

Now, it is written by Hollywood and the Internet.


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## Ursa major (Apr 11, 2012)

A thought to cheer up the author of the article: when oxygen is breathed, it isn't destroyed, merely used in some chemical reactions to create more complex molecules; other biological processes can release molecular oxygen.


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## RJM Corbet (Apr 11, 2012)

Ursa major said:


> A thought to cheer up the author of the article: when oxygen is breathed, it isn't destroyed, merely used in some chemical reactions to create more complex molecules; other biological processes can release molecular oxygen.


 
So there's still enough to go round for bears too ...


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 11, 2012)

Ursa major said:


> A thought to cheer up the author of the article: when oxygen is breathed, it isn't destroyed, merely used in some chemical reactions to create more complex molecules; other biological processes can release molecular oxygen.



Sometimes oxygen is breathed in, and it travels all the way to the brain cells. At this point, the brain wakes up and asks "Did that thing really sink?".


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## The Judge (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't think it's a question of school education, mosaix, not for this particular example, since I wouldn't expect history lessons to deal with the Titanic itself. How many of us know about  the Vasa, another ship which sank on its maiden voyage?  Granted it didn't have the same loss of life, but it was another example of inadequate planning and poor decisions.

However, the difference between the two is publicity -- and that's what this shows about the ignoramuses in the article.  Film after film after film has been made of the Titanic and its events; every year something is written about it in the papers and is shown on the news, about survivors, about diving to the ship, about memorabilia, about the films themselves -- and every single piece written will have referred to the real events of 1912.  

These people have gone through life wholly oblivious, wholly uncurious, wrapped up in their own self-satisfied cocoon, not reading any articles anywhere, not thinking about anything except their next drink, next drug, next idiotic TV programme.  That is where the ignorance arises, from their failure to read and think and wonder.

/rant over


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## Kamosis (Apr 11, 2012)

Ok, let's do this in a civil way, I want these people tagged and shoot before they can contamine our gene pool aymore


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## Metryq (Apr 11, 2012)

Kamosis said:


> Ok, let's do this in a civil way, I want these people tagged and shoot before they can contamine our gene pool aymore



That idea, also, has made the rounds during the 20th century. I'm with The Judge on this one. Ignorance is curable, and it's not a shooting offense. Stupidity, on the other hand...

It's just amazing to find people oblivious to things like the Titanic disaster when it has become a common figure of speech (at least among English speakers). How about the 1938 WAR OF THE WORLDS broadcast? Surely everyone knows about that, and had a good laugh at all the stupid Americans... or not, because that "same" radio play has panicked audiences several times since then. In Ecuador, the radio station was burned down by an angry mob (20 people died), yet many _still_ do not know about it.

But the manipulators and power brokers noticed. They learned how many people have trouble distinguishing fact from fiction, and they learned how easy it is to sway people with a few hysterical words and some cheap photography. (UFOs? Loch Ness monster? BLAIR WITCH PROJECT? The nightly news...)

Heck, the US Navy received letters during the initial run of GILLIGAN'S ISLAND wondering if they were going to do anything to rescue those poor people.


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## Mouse (Apr 11, 2012)

Blimey Charlie.

Mind, I had an American lady comment to me a couple of weeks ago that she didn't realise England had beaches.


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## The Ace (Apr 11, 2012)

Nessie _does _exist, Metryq.  She's a bit shy, though and has a nasty habit of eating witnesses when she can't get wild haggis.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 11, 2012)

Mouse said:


> Blimey Charlie.
> 
> Mind, I had an American lady comment to me a couple of weeks ago that she didn't realise England had beaches.



Did she know England* is an island? 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the definition of an island "dirt and rock, and maybe sand, too, surrounded by water"?

And isn't the definition of beach "the bit where dirt and rock and maybe sand, too, meets the surrounding water"?

So, an island must have something that could be called a beach?**

Perhaps she's confused by all this European Union, England-is-a-part-of-Europe business.

*including the attached lands of Wales and Scotland for the purposes of the definition and in no way intended as an insult or to spark nationalistic debate by referring to those countries as "England". 

**even if it's all steep cliffs, and the "beach" is effectively vertical.


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## The Ace (Apr 12, 2012)

David Evil Overlord said:


> Did she know England* is an island?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the definition of an island "dirt and rock, and maybe sand, too, surrounded by water"?
> 
> ...



England is a peninsula DEO, and I can forgive a New Zealander for not knowing that referring to the UK as, 'England,'  IS an insult, whether intended or not. England, Scotland and Wales, as well as Northern Ireland all have beautiful beaches and surprisingly vibrant surfing communities, given the weather.


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## Ursa major (Apr 12, 2012)

To follow on from what Ace has said: the island which forms the mainland of Scotland, the mainland of England and that of Wales is called Great Britain (in English).


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 12, 2012)

I tried to defuse the potentially explosive situation with a disclaimer. I called it "England" because Mouse noted her American lady called it that. I did note the island as a whole includes Wales and Scotland.

The "island" statement didn't really have the same impact if I say "England is an island, so it has beaches all around it, except where it has land borders with Scotland and Wales".

@Ace, I'm glad you can forgive a New Zealander. Warren Paul should drop by any minute.  But I'm an Australian, not a New Zealander. Which I suspect you said to even the score over the whole England/Scotland/Wales thing.


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## The Ace (Apr 12, 2012)

Exactly DEO, I insulted you the way you insulted me.

Sorry about that, but being called English really hurts.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 12, 2012)

Not intentional, my friend. I apologise for the unintended insult.

P.S. Saw you called England a peninsula. Do you mean it's just an insignificant bit of land sticking out south of Scotland?


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## Pyan (Apr 12, 2012)

Ahem - in terms of area, it's the other way around. Scotland covers (approx) 30,000 square miles, England covers 50,000. And they both look down on Wales, with a measly 8,000 sq.m. 

So if you were being jingoistic, you could justifiably claim that Wales and Scotland were both insignificant bits of mainly barren land sticking out north and west of England. But most of us that live down here wouldn't dream of being so rude about our neighbours. No, we really wouldn't. Not at all. Wouldn't cross our minds.


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 12, 2012)

Oh, and there was me thinking they were all subsidaries of Northern Ireland.*  Hard luck, guys. 

*Square footage of an English-agricultural-style-farm-field. (I'm sure somewhere there is one that's equivalent.)

@Ace, there's people who don't believe in Nessie? *shudders*


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## RJM Corbet (Apr 12, 2012)

Metryq said:


> ... BLAIR WITCH PROJECT? ...


 
But this still stands as a classic internet marketing success of a movie, persuading people to think it was a real documentary. Watched as reality, it would have been really scary, I think. I only saw it after I knew it wasn't real, and of course that made all the difference.

But Blair Witch Two _was _scary ...


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## The Ace (Apr 12, 2012)

I  referred to England as a peninsula (erroneously - but close enough for jazz) because it isn't completely surrounded by water, Scotland and Wales get in the way.

Great Britain and Ireland are islands - England is not.

Yes, Springs.  Hard as it is to believe, some misguided souls think Nessie is a myth.


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## Vladd67 (Apr 12, 2012)

Nessie isn't a myth, she works for the Scottish tourist board.


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 12, 2012)

just on another note, there is a new tourist attraction opened in Belfast about the Titanic. I was very dubious, you know, that they might trivialise it, but it was actually very good, and very moving, even to the kids. (although I suspect 10 and below didn't really grasp it.) And it was very good about how it was built etc. 

It did, however, state very clearly that the ship did, in fact, sink.


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## Pyan (Apr 12, 2012)

You want to try living in Southampton - we're suffering from terminal Titanicophilia. New museum, guided walks, shop-window displays, Edwardian reinactors, cruises to the fatal spot... 
All we're lacking is an iceberg moored in the harbour.


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## The Judge (Apr 12, 2012)

Yep -- I walked into Waterstones (both of them) on Saturday and shelf after shelf after shelf...

And isn't that an iceberg moored on West Quay Road?  Oops.  My mistake, it's the De Vere Grand Harbour...


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## Metryq (Apr 12, 2012)

The Ace said:


> Nessie _does _exist, Metryq.  She's a bit shy, though and has a nasty habit of eating witnesses when she can't get wild haggis.



Right, the photos of her taken by Bigfoot are alleged to be the best, only Chupacabra ate them. Bigfoot took the precaution of standing in a crop circle because he knew Nessie would not cross the flattened grass. (The magnetic radiation from the time traveling UFOs acts as cryptasaur bane.) Unfortunately, this did nothing to stop ol' goat sucker—who had eaten all the haggis, too.


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 12, 2012)

It has caused an interesting reaction, though. They recreated the grand staircase, and have put it in the function room, which means the plebs can't get to see it, but the rich'uns who can afford to hire it can, and this at an attraction where part of the tragedy was that class made a distinction. There's been quite a hoo ha about it.

And before anyone asks, no of course I didn't get to see it. Lowest of the low, we were, locals, not famous with *shudders* kids, at a tourist attraction. Imagine.


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## Ursa major (Apr 12, 2012)

pyan said:


> All we're lacking is an iceberg moored in the harbour.


 
I hope they don't bring in a berg, Py. I wouldn't want to have to become Floe Bear whenever I visited Southampton (particularly anywhere near the docks, given Flaubert's reputation...).


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## Bowler1 (Apr 12, 2012)

I have seen the function room on TV, not for the plebs eh - the irony of it all.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 13, 2012)

If it's a faithful recreation, the function room will hit an iceberg and sink, with all the rich'uns lost.


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 13, 2012)

Um, it's belfast, and it's annoyed the locals... iceberg's are the least of their worries.  (I'm joking btw, I'm allowed to, I'm a local...)


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## AnyaKimlin (Apr 13, 2012)

springs1971 said:


> Um, it's belfast, and it's annoyed the locals... iceberg's are the least of their worries.  (I'm joking btw, I'm allowed to, I'm a local...)



Ahh that's what happened - here was me thinking Nessie did it.   The locals in Belfast took the plug out it wasn't an Iceberg


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 13, 2012)

Rivets, apparently. not good enough. But, we digress. She was allright when she left.


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## Bowler1 (Apr 13, 2012)

Its not icebergs I'd worry about in Belfast, checking under the seats for bombs before starters would be a good idea! 

Function room lost with all hands, not a single prawn cocktail left!


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 13, 2012)

Don't touch the marzipan on the cake.....


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## Bowler1 (Apr 13, 2012)

I have a picture of a big round cake with one fizzing candle that the bride and groom (in the function room of course) are unable to blow out once lit!


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 13, 2012)

Hmmm. Just re-reading my super hero rewrite. There is a section where Our Hero is thinking about her sidekick's obviously incorrect theory about the secret identity of another super hero (Spoilers carefully removed).

"Technomancer still can’t accept that. It’s the iceberg to her _Titanic_ idea that *[Secret Identity] *used to be *[Super Hero]*."

But maybe that doesn't work if so very many people her age don't know it happened.


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## Jo Zebedee (Apr 13, 2012)

could file it under educational, though. Plus, I think the thing is they do know about it, it's just that they think it's a film, so the reference still applies?


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## Metryq (Apr 13, 2012)

David Evil Overlord said:


> But maybe that doesn't work if so very many people her age don't know it happened.



That depends on whether you want to cater to mouth-breathers, or the kind of people who would actually pick up your book and read it. (As opposed to waiting for the movie version.)

That reminds me of a literature prof in college who told us she'd be starting a class the next semester titled "No, but I saw the movie." It would focus on all those classics that have been turned into movies.


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## David Evil Overlord (Apr 14, 2012)

@Springs - good point, reference works whether she thinks the _Titanic_ was real or fiction. 

@Metryq - I do want to cater for people who would read a book and not just wait for the movie.* At the same time, I'm trying to write a realistic teenager. Still, it's set in the present day (just a present day with super heroes in it), so the anniversary should help convince even the most realistic of teenagers that the ship actually sunk.

*_Ringworld _was written in 1970. The movie rights were purchased last year IIRC. I could wait 41 years for the movie rights to sell? With no guarantee the movie will ever be made? And that assumes I can write something as good as _Ringworld_.


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