# The Wargaming Thread



## Toby Frost (Jul 12, 2017)

Right then, here it is: a thread for tabletop games and wargames, ranging from skirmish games all the way up to those ones where you recreate the Battle of Waterloo.

I started off doing this sort of thing when I was about 14, and I played Heroquest and Warhammer Fantasy Battle against my friends. Games seemed to take about six weeks, not including the arguments about the rules (which we barely understood at the best of times). Although I stopped playing large games, I retained an interest in painting and building models, especially converting them, and I do still play the odd game or two.

These days, it tends to be either the very heavy-duty board game types (Shadows of Brimstone and Zombicide: Black Plague feature heavily) or the small-scale, roleplaying-type wargames such as Necromunda, where each model can improve between games. Historical games don't really interest me much, and I'm still more into the making of things rather than the playing side.

I'd be interested to see if there are any other gamers out there.


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## Vladd67 (Jul 12, 2017)

I used to wargame every week, mainly Warhammer and WWII. A friend of mine has literally thousands of pounds worth of figures and vehicles, he has been collecting for nearly 40 years, he is divorced with no kids and a few years back as he approached 50 he decided he had nothing else in his life to spend his money on so why skimp. So every week he umpires a battle that usually lasts three sessions and the usual group of friends attend, however he once said we weren't challenging enough for him and he got better games at a local war games club, over the last couple of years he managed to alienate three of our group, and the rest of us used to joke who would be next, then guess what, he sent me an email saying basically after 18 years I should be playing better and I should up my game or not bother coming. I now play occasionally with another friend who has a family, job, and realises there is more to life than Wargaming. Ok so we don't play the massive battles or campaigns like we used to but we have fun. So now I mainly play X-Wing, 40K, and Frostgrave. I did briefly join a local club but discovered I preferred the social side rather than the gaming side, so now the games are smaller but more fun. 
Sorry to rant a little but it's still a sore point, I had no idea our friendship was dependent on my skill at Wargaming.


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## Cathbad (Jul 12, 2017)

Vladd67 said:


> Sorry to rant a little but it's still a sore point, I had no idea our friendship was dependent on my skill at Wargaming.



I've been playing RPG's for 40 years (save the last few).  Played a few wargames too.  I've always loathed the people you described.  I have also noted that they are usually _not_ the best players.

I've gamed so long because, like you, I've enjoyed the social aspect most.


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## Toby Frost (Jul 12, 2017)

Yes, there are some bad people and some good ones in wargaming. The worst ones definitely give it a bad name. Generally, I've found that the less intense end of the scale is much more my sort of thing, and I only play against friends. Some of the best gaming blogs I've followed have been by graphic designers and illustrators, who use their day-job skills to make amazing things, and older writers who approach it from a fun, nostalgic way. The "Oldhammer" movement has got very strong in the last couple of years. That said, I do dread some kind of wargaming equivalent of Gamergate breaking out.


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## Vladd67 (Jul 12, 2017)

When we did a warhammer campaign we used 6th edition, but it became a little complicated with newer models as they needed 8th edition army lists. Throw in our many house rules and it got to the stage that nearly every turn ended up with much page turning.


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## Overread (Jul 12, 2017)

I've always been in a bit of wargames deadzone in that it came and went as a school hobby before my time and where I live its a good hours drive to get anywhere where there's somewhere to game. I've collected on and off for years though - mostly Tyranids and Legion of Everblight.

My biggest shame is never learning to properly paint and it still dogs me today; one day I keep saying I'll sit down and really learn how to paint even at a basic level!


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## reiver33 (Jul 12, 2017)

I've been playing 'proper' wargames (with rules and dice and everything) for over 45 years. I'm a historical gamer; just about every period from Biblical 25mm through to Ultra Modern (1980s) 6mm, including aerial and naval. I used to attend competitions; 15mm Nationals (Ancients, Medieval, and Renaissance) plus Firefly (6mm WW2), but eventually played one too many 'must win' opponents to make it enjoyable. Not so much I found them a pain in the arse, but they brought out the 'rules lawyer' side of me (at the time I was a senior systems analyst and pretty much the poster boy for 'picky').      

My local club is currently going through an AWI/ACW phase (28mm), with Warhammer Historical and Flames of War consigned to the dustbin of history...


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## Cathbad (Jul 12, 2017)

Best Wargammer GM I ever met was at a convention in Tampa, FL.  Can't recall his name right now, but it'll come to me in a few days. 

He was about 60 (my age now, but this was probably 30 years ago), and a Vietnam vet.  His scenarios were extremely well written (a few published), and he was an intense, but fair and jovial GM.  He was such a pleasure, my Gaming club immediately approved him as a Guest of Honor at our own convention, when I suggested him.  (FWIW we also had the creator of the _Paranoia_ RPG as well - too bad the crowd was much smaller than we'd expected.)

If there were many more like him, the Gaming industry would see a second Golden Age.


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## Overread (Jul 12, 2017)

I'm always sad that Warmaster never caught on and that that scale of games doesn't have much luck with fantasy nor sci-fi. There's a host of companies making various small scale models and rules systems; but only Warmaster really had large scale appeal and even that was niche. It's a shame as to me its an ideal way to have rank and file and to have potential of creatures like dragons to blaze through whole squads without feeling broken - whilst in 32mm a dragon can't just fly through and incinerate 20 troops because that could be half of some armies.


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## thaddeus6th (Jul 12, 2017)

I have a vague awareness of Warhammer stuff, and I'm not sure if this counts but I did create a virtual sort of war-gaming/strategy game for the ancient/medieval world a while ago [had two versions]. I haven't run a game for ages because they last a long time and the battles were time-consuming (for me, as the chap running it, for players they were only difficult in determining tactics and deployment). Not quite the same thing, I suppose.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 12, 2017)

Toby Frost said:


> Right then, here it is: a thread for tabletop games and wargames, ranging from skirmish games all the way up to those ones where you recreate the Battle of Waterloo.
> 
> I started off doing this sort of thing when I was about 14, and I played Heroquest and Warhammer Fantasy Battle against my friends. Games seemed to take about six weeks, not including the arguments about the rules (which we barely understood at the best of times). Although I stopped playing large games, I retained an interest in painting and building models, especially converting them, and I do still play the odd game or two.
> 
> ...



*raises hand*

Rather obsessively, though generally not the miniature kind; rather, the Hex and Counter kind.  I've taken great delight in introducing a new generation to the hobby.  I'm 43, and the median age of my crowd is early 30s.  Good gender ratio, too.

We have a room just for wargaming:






And we got blue carpet in the living room just to do naval miniature gaming!


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## Cathbad (Jul 13, 2017)

Great room!


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 13, 2017)

Thank you!  It is well used.  Though on Wargame Weekends, we generally fill three, sometimes four rooms.


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## thaddeus6th (Jul 13, 2017)

That room looks great 

Get a little bronze plaque "The Gaming Chamber", perhaps?


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## Toby Frost (Jul 13, 2017)

Lots of us, then! That's a very impressive room, Galactic Journey. My desk tends to be half-lost under a heap of semi-dismantled kits.

One thing I've found is that I'm less and less interested in the competitive element of gaming. I would still play against an opponent to win, but I've found that some of the big systems are so creaky that some sides are just better and others and it's hard to get a level playing-field. There's a risk of investing a lot of time and energy into making the models, designing the army and so on, just to lose to a faulty system. I've got increasingly interested in co-operative games, which tend to be the Heroquest board game sort rather than big wargames.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 13, 2017)

Toby Frost said:


> Lots of us, then! That's a very impressive room, Galactic Journey. My desk tends to be half-lost under a heap of semi-dismantled kits.
> 
> One thing I've found is that I'm less and less interested in the competitive element of gaming. I would still play against an opponent to win, but I've found that some of the big systems are so creaky that some sides are just better and others and it's hard to get a level playing-field. There's a risk of investing a lot of time and energy into making the models, designing the army and so on, just to lose to a faulty system. I've got increasingly interested in co-operative games, which tend to be the Heroquest board game sort rather than big wargames.



It is so interesting you say this.

I've never been a fan of Euros, and I've ironically found Euro-players way more competitive than Wargamers.  I play to win, of course, but I'm much more interested in 1) the problem-solving aspect of the wargame, and 2) the historical simulation unrolling before my eyes.

Only wargames really scratch that itch.  Admittedly, you can get "wargames" without much war in them -- grand-strategic political simulations, for instance, but you know what I mean.

That said, there is a lot less investment in Hex and Counter than miniatures   (says the fellow with hundreds of little ships, but that's my one concession to the vice)


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## Toby Frost (Jul 13, 2017)

Sorry, what are Euros? I'm definitely of the view that it is more irritating to lose than it is enjoyable to win, which puts me off the strict game-of-chess approach. I saw one interesting blog where the players were given a small and limited side (it was an old edition of Fantasy Battle) and an objective, and the players effectively used the game to tell a story rather than to see who was the "best" competitor.

Recently I played a skirmish game where one side - the fast, "finesse" side - wiped out the other in two turns. It was pretty clear that it hadn't been properly playtested. This does seem to be a real risk with wargames and, given the sheer number of permutations you could have in a game, it's not surprising.


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## Foxbat (Jul 13, 2017)

Hex and counters for me. Started off in the 70s with Simulation Publications and Avalon Hill games. Played the monster Drang Nach Osten from Game Designers Workshop a couple of times but eventually  gave up due to lack of opponents in my area. I still have a large collection of games (including all of Advanced Squad Leader up to and including Doomed Battalions). 

For some reason I was never that interested in RPG, Warhammer or miniatures but do enjoy building the odd model now and then


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 13, 2017)

Toby Frost said:


> Sorry, what are Euros? I



It gladdens my heart to hear someone say that 

Symmetrical, mechanic-based games, generally with a theme tacked on.  They take .5-3 hours.  Settlers of Catan is the Ur-Euro.

They are not designed to be simulations.  They are designed to be played and won.  Theme is secondary.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 13, 2017)

Foxbat said:


> Hex and counters for me. Started off in the 70s with Simulation Publications and Avalon Hill games. Played the monster Drang Nach Osten from Game Designers Workshop a couple of times but eventually  gave up due to lack of opponents in my area. I still have a large collection of games (including all of Advanced Squad Leader up to and including Doomed Battalions).



Very nice!  You might enjoy this tour through S&T's first five years (meant to go the whole way, but ran out of spare time...still, a pretty good project)


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## Vladd67 (Jul 13, 2017)

Used to play many Avlon Hill games back I the 80s when I was at secondary school, Third Reich was the most popular I remember.


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## reiver33 (Jul 13, 2017)

I also played DNO/UNT when it first came out, and then the revamped version Fire In The East. Pax Britannica is also a favourite of mine (we never avoided WW1). In terms of the semi-abstract board game then the old SPI classic Empires Of The Middle Ages is a stand-out.


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## Galactic Journey (Jul 13, 2017)

reiver33 said:


> I also played DNO/UNT when it first came out, and then the revamped version Fire In The East. Pax Britannica is also a favourite of mine (we never avoided WW1). In terms of the semi-abstract board game then the old SPI classic Empires Of The Middle Ages is a stand-out.



We've played A LOT of Pax in our time.  That's a game that's either amazing or terrible... and you never know which you're going to get till after 12 hours of play.  Much like Kingmaker.

Empires of the Middle Ages is great.  We played 35 hours of a campaign game once.  Stopped in the 11th century.

P.S. This is our "Kingmaker: Serious Business" pic


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## HareBrain (Jul 13, 2017)

Foxbat said:


> I still have a large collection of games (including all of Advanced Squad Leader up to and including Doomed Battalions).



Bloody ASL. Every time I finished reading through the rule book it was time to start again. It was an amazing game, though. I once destroyed my friend's three aircraft in a single go with my Wirbelwind.

I've still got a Dragon Pass game in my cellar, which I've never played and keep thinking I ought to.


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## Paul_C (Jul 13, 2017)

I've still got a couple of Avalon Hill boxes somewhere, The Arab - Israeli Wars and (IIRC) Panzer Blitz. 

I used to have loads of Warhammer 40,000 stuff but all I have now is about 3 years worth of White Dwarf magazines. I had Heroquest and Space Hulk too but gave it all away


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## Vladd67 (Jul 14, 2017)

Paul_C said:


> I've still got a couple of Avalon Hill boxes somewhere, The Arab - Israeli Wars and (IIRC) Panzer Blitz.
> 
> I used to have loads of Warhammer 40,000 stuff but all I have now is about 3 years worth of White Dwarf magazines. I had Heroquest and Space Hulk too but gave it all away


And now you see the ridiculous prices on eBay.


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## Overread (Jul 14, 2017)

Warhammer Quest (Heroquest mkII) is at least back on retail sale. GW did bring Space Hulk back but only in limited sales; however there's a new genestealer minigame on sale and genestealer cults are their own faction in 40K again; however yes ebay prices tend to be high as soon as any product is on limited sale. Plus you get the companies which charge WAY above that asking price into the hundreds just because its limited (I think they either run on very few sales or on buying the item to order secondhand anyway and thus have to charge more) .


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## Toby Frost (Jul 23, 2017)

They do seem to bring Space Hulk back out every few years, probably because it's a very good game and can be relied upon to sell. For a while, GW seemed to lose interest in everything apart from the two Warhammer games: a couple of years ago, they got a new chief exec and appeared to remember that they also sold skirmish games. The problem (for them) is that the market has changed: there are decent alternatives to Blood Bowl, Man O'War and Mordheim in the form of Dreadball, Dystopian Legions and Frostgrave. Companies like Privateer Press have changed the market by giving rules away for free and engaging with the customers. The market has changed - for the better, I think.


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## Vladd67 (Jul 23, 2017)

A pity Warhammer historical folded, now if you want a set of rules they are going for ridiculous money. As an ex member of Prince Rupert's Blew Regiment of Foote, or Rupert's Bluecoats, in the Sealed Knot I have always had a soft spot for the Warhammer English Civil War rules with the regiments last stand at Naseby on the cover. I even have a framed copy of the original print on a wall at home.



  This of course is just a portion of the whole picture.


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## reiver33 (Jul 23, 2017)

I binned my entire range of Warhammer rules and supplements...


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## reiver33 (Jul 23, 2017)

Just saw a comment about Third Reich! Had some 'epic' evening/all night games, but could never adjust to sitting (as Germany) with the board upside down.


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## Cathbad (Jul 23, 2017)

Although nobody played it, 2nd Edition AD&D included asset of very good mass combat rules.


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## Overread (Jul 23, 2017)

Mass combat in DnD? I have a mental vision now of needing a bucket of dice to roll that one out


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## Cathbad (Jul 23, 2017)

Overread said:


> Mass combat in DnD? I have a mental vision now of needing a bucket of dice to roll that one out



Nahh... it was a good system.  I ran a couple battles with it, and it wasn't bad.


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## Foxbat (Jul 24, 2017)

reiver33 said:


> Just saw a comment about Third Reich! Had some 'epic' evening/all night games, but could never adjust to sitting (as Germany) with the board upside down.


Me too. One memorable game ended up with my Italian armour invading the UK. We'd either missed or misinterpreted the rules regarding amphibious invasions and never applied the restrictions the Italian navy suffers outside the Med. 

It became known as _the Panzer Uno affair_


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## Toby Frost (Jul 24, 2017)

I've got a friend who plays the 28mm WW2 wargame Bolt Action. It's got good rules, but frankly nothing inspires me less than the idea of painting 200 tiny Nazis in the same shade of drab green, except perhaps painting 400 tiny Communists in the same shade of drab brown. Give me one space wizard any day.


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## Vladd67 (Aug 8, 2017)

Looks like Games Workshop are facing a small problem.
Games Workshop is Being Sued For $62.5M - Spikey Bits


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## Toby Frost (Aug 8, 2017)

Yes, I saw that last night. To be honest, I'm unconvinced by a lot of it. The particulars don't look very lawyerly, and I think they'd have a solid defence in that things like powered armour and space monsters were part of the general background of sci-fi and not breaches of specific IP. The arrangement with the individual shops might be more likely to succeed, but I don't know how restraint of trade works in the US (depending on whose law is binding on the contract).

I think this is probably on one end of the gaming spectrum, but I have a blog about models, here: In A World of Paint


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## Overread (Aug 8, 2017)

I think that article is only getting attention because its being pushed by at least one news site that apparently has some personal agenda/annoyance with GW. Yeah the legal document is laughably bad in scope and content and apparently the guy issuing it also a recaster (ergo illegally casts his own GW models for commercial sale). So its no surprise GW ended dealing with the guy. 

In better news and slightly more toward DnD than wargames; but Bones 4 is currently running on Kickstarter and is well worth a look for some affordable models. 
Reaper Miniatures Bones 4: Mr. Bones EPIC Adventure!
The Bones material is a kind of soft rubberyish plastic that holds good levels of detail. The idea is to have cheap models that can be painted right out of the box (the colour is a kind of white/grey); its aimed at the DnD gamers who want models but don't want to spend a fortune on them; but also works for wargames.


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## Toby Frost (Aug 10, 2017)

I did one of the earlier Bones kickstarters a couple of years ago. The models are perfectly fine but not cutting edge, either in detail or style (they're generally older models and some are a bit cheesy) but the larger models were very high quality indeed. There is a certain amount of flash that needs to be cut off rather than filed. I got a Jabberwock from Bones and thought it was excellent, although I'd suggest spraying an undercoat on rather than painting it, as the models didn't take paint terribly well without it.


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## Overread (Aug 10, 2017)

Aye I've got a few and the larger models really do look rather good whilst some of the smaller are not as ideal. I think its a great material for what its aimed at and for some bigger showy models that don't break the bank its a really neat approach. Get a Bones for a fraction of the cost of what it would otherwise be in metal or resin or plastic.


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## Overread (Aug 18, 2017)

Again on the KS front this one might be neat for any that like space ships - Firestorm Armada. The games already been out a few years and Spartan makes some really fantastic resin models; this is an expansion of two new races and some new units for each of the core factions as well as some terrain and the new printing of 3.0 rules.
Firestorm Galaxy Expansion


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## A.G. Kimbrough (Aug 20, 2019)

There is a Russian Company named Wargaming. They have World Of Tanks (WOT) a WW2 based Tank warfare game. World Of Planes (WOP) an arir war game with plans ranging from WW1 biplanes, at the bottom tiers to Korean Wars area jets at the highest tiers. World Of Warships (WOWS)is a naval action game with warships that include Destroyers, Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers. I am a naval history buff and an author who writes naval action stories, and I am addicted to WOWS. All 3 games are free to play, but you can progress faster if you spend real $..


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## Cathbad (Aug 21, 2019)

I'd love to start a new D&D campaign.


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## Rodders (Aug 21, 2019)

I never got into wargaming, although my next door was much into Warhammer 40k. (I see on his Facebook page that he still plays.

I always meant to pick it up, but didn’t find the time. I did like paint the FASA Star Trek Ships and the Judge Dredd miniatures. 

A large part of my Star Wars collecting in the nineties was the West End Games Star Wars rule books and supplements as they contained a lot of great images and information. I still have them.


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## Overread (Aug 21, 2019)

@Rodders - you know there's a whole couple of series of Starwars Wargames now - There's one for fighter ships, one for ground combat and one for big space ships - they've even released a 2 ft super star destroyer only this last month. Plus they are all pre-painted models so they are pretty much totally good to go out of the box

Fighter Ship game 








						Star Wars: X-Wing Second Edition
					






					www.fantasyflightgames.com
				




Armada game








						Star Wars: Armada
					






					www.fantasyflightgames.com
				




Ground Combat game








						Star Wars: Legion
					






					www.fantasyflightgames.com
				




Fantasy Flight also makes a bunch of other SW related stuff.
PS I'm aware that some of the companies in the UK like Firestorm Games and Wayland Games have trouble keeping good stock of FF stuff; its not in any danger its just hard for them to keep up with demand from what I've heard.+


PS their store is a bit odd; you have to check under "expansions" to get at the variety of ships on offer


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## CupofJoe (Aug 22, 2019)

Back in the early days of Warhammer Fantasy Battle [mid to late 80s] I used to have three separate armies that I used in rotation or depending on the foe [Orc/Goblin, Dwarf and Wood Elf]. I loved playing the game but it cost a fortune to collect and paint and it was a pain to carry them anywhere for a game. 
At the same time I had a friend that always fielded 2 Balrogs as his army. At 1500pt each they made up his entire army.  It was very cost effective and easy to transport, but in three years of playing I never saw him win a game. Not even close...
BTW my Wood Elf army retired with a perfect 9 wins and 0 losses record. the Dwarves and Orcs fared less well.


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## Rodders (Aug 22, 2019)

Thanks Overread. I have collected the three Millennium Falcon models for my collection from the FFG X-Wing game. The quality is very good, but I haven't played the game.


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## Judderman (Dec 20, 2019)

I have great memories of playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle in the 90s. Loved the army and world backgrounds too. Certainly cost a lot though, and needed a lot of painting time. Plus played various other GW games.
In the last few years I have been playing blood bowl again. You only need 11 or so figures per team and there is actually a lot of tournaments organized. The World Cup is gigantic for a single system event. The  naf have a website for tournaments and rankings etc.


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## Toby Frost (Dec 20, 2019)

I think one of the best things about the resurgence of tabletop gaming is that the entry cost is much lower now (proportionally). For a long time, Games Workshop had a stranglehold on the market and was only interested in selling its two big Warhammer games. Now, while GW is still huge, there are lots of smaller games that are quicker and cheaper to get into. I suspect there's a big market of nostalgic older gamers who just don't have the time and money for the huge games, and realise that just as much fun can be had out of smaller ones.


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## thaddeus6th (Dec 20, 2019)

3D printing might be helping with that (not my area or anything, just a thought).


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## Overread (Dec 20, 2019)

The newer companies popping up I think is a result of several things happening around the same time
1) Internet shopping is pretty normal. Way back 20 odd years ago (or maybe more now) mail ordering was slower and the internet wasn't much used for retail. The highstreet dominated and many regions that meant big named brands for wargames (ergo Warhammer) had a very strong hold on what shelf space there was - along with having their own stores on the highstreet. 
Today the internet is very dominant and that means smaller one-man-band or teams of product developers have a greater chance to reach out the public and connect with them. Done right they can produce niche products and fill a smaller subset of the market and still turn a healthy profit.

2) Kickstarter - this REALLY exploded the market because it allowed small time companies to take out big chunks of money to cover their start up costs. This might mean they could buy machines to make models; buy moulds to cast from and even generate sufficent early orders to make orders from overseas manufacturers. Of course many also fail and fall apart, and it is basically gambling with hobby money; but its still started off many a small firm. Either making full games; alternate parts etc... 

3) GW was losing their market hold. Especially for the older gamer GW went though an increasingly bad patch where their upper management was isolating themselves more and more from their customers and focusing more on their own profits. The result was stripping of specialist games; a more messy release pattern; heck at that itme they weren't even marketing anything online. When every other company was using social media, twitch, streaming, etc.... GW was having none of it. This sort of all came to a head when they ditched their fantasy game and released Age of Sigmar without any rules and fragmenting many armies and removing several. Basically the market backlashed and GW wound up having a change of CEO.
During that time other companies got their heads up above the water. GW was losing mature gamers, losing a hold and those gamers were taking their money to kickstarter and other companies. 
when GW changed CEO and a huge attitude change (they now put out social media marketing every single day) this had a big knock on effect; both GW's sales soured high enough that their share value was the highest on the UK stock market for a while; but also smaller companies suddenly felt a big bite being taken out of their income as many older games flocked back to GW. 


3D printing is in an odd spot right now. It's got a hold on some bits of the market but not mass market. Right now I think its problems are
1) It's slower than plastic casting. So for manufacture its not as fast as casting can achieve.

2) It actually creates more clean up than traditional casting methods. You have connecting and support lines and ridges and layer lines and such to clean up. That's fine for making a master to then make a casting mould from (far as I know this is how GW is making their models now); but its not as ideal for your mass market product.

3) I personally can't see where the profit is. Every company I've seen sending out files to 3D print your own models has been REALLY small scale. Basically 1 person making designs and selling them for peanuts. Relying both on it being a side project (not their main income source) and small sale prices to make ends meat. That they are small firms where its basically the designer (who makes the models) doing the work cuts down on overheads. I just can't see bigger companies selling 3D print files so effectively to the consumer. Consumers who buy 3D files buy them "because they are cheaper" partly than regular casts. Plus they have to buy material and cast at home; however that means the price has to be really low and I can't see that supporting larger companies with more overheads and staff etc....

I see it used more in terrain production than for models; whilst in model terms I tend to see it more used more for producing masters rather than actual products; though a few are doing it here and there.


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## CupofJoe (Dec 20, 2019)

I was in a GW store when a [rather obnoxious] child announced to everyone that could hear, that they were going to buy a GW model [a big demon?] and then use their 3D printer and scanner to make copies for all their friends...
You could feel the blood pressure rise in the GW staff...


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## Overread (Dec 20, 2019)

Thankfully a 3D printer that can do justice to the detail on a model is not cheap nor is a 3D scanner that can scan to that level of detail. Plus far as I'm aware to actually get the 3D scan to do it right you've got to take accurate measurements of the model. GW apparently did do all this when they took their current Warlord 40K titan (it costs over £1K) and scaled it down for the return of Adepticus Titanicus. 

Lots of micrometer measurements were taken. 

I have to say its a beauty on the table too in Adepticus Titanticus - but I'm still waiting for them to do an Imperator.


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## Vladd67 (Dec 21, 2019)

Someone I used to war game with used to copy figures, but he did it the old fashion way making moulds and casting metal. He used to by second hand pewter tankards from the market and use them as a source of metal.


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## Judderman (Dec 21, 2019)

I think GW have upped their standards On the model department side. They have had to do with all the little competitors.
I also hear good things on their contrast paints, if expensive. Someone was mentioning they will be bringing Warhamner Fantasy back again already.


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