# Space port



## Moonbat (May 20, 2013)

Might be better posted in the writing section, but I'll let a mod decide.

What would a space port look like? Could we expect it t be run along the lines of an airport? The ones that I've seen (in fiction) don't seem to have the strict restrictions on timings that airports have, but would it be realistic to expect that they do?

This leads onto another, altogther different, question. We often assume that spaceships will have crews, much like a large military ship, but if spaceships become cheap enough and common enough for normal people to have them, will they be more like cars?

So, if they are like cars, then would a space port just be more like a large car park, there will be rules (of the sky - skyway code?) to stop crashes, but people can come and go when they like, they wouldn't have to get 'permission' to land or take off? Is this kind of simplification too much.

btw I'm thinking of an on planet space port, not one that is in space.
When I looked up space port pics on google I found plenty for the vigin galactic stuff and Mos Eisley (from star wars) but few others.
I'm just wondering what you guys think?


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## Harpo (May 20, 2013)

For a planet-based Space Port, I'm guessing something like Mos Eisley would be about right.  Skyway Code sounds good too.


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## Gordian Knot (May 20, 2013)

I agree with your assessment that it all depends on whether the ships are government/corporate owned or if civilians can have their own personal little ships (shiplettes?).

The former obviously much more regulated and restricted. The latter more loosely so. If both exist, no reason the two cannot exist side by side.

Another angle, what about a universe where aliens exist? Space ports might well be zoned for different species, particularly if they need different ecological requirements than humans do.

One other option not mentioned. What about totally automated space ships? They carry people, but the ship itself is either controlled by a non-aware machine intelligence, or controlled by someone sitting in the space port with a joy stick (like drones today), or are themselves self aware.

Finally the type of ruling body would alter these parameters. Government controlled, Corporate controlled, Class controlled? And whether they are more democratic regimes, more repressive, etc.


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## Moonbat (May 20, 2013)

If the two did exist side-by-side would there be an obvious divide between the two? Or would you get a gradual scale, starting off with the big military/government ships, very formal, very strict scheduled flight times, to the personal(?) smaller craft that have less restriction. I'm now thinking about the reason for travel, public transport covers everything (depending on distance) taxis are free to roam, buses have routes and run every 20mins (depending on the route) trains have lines and they too have timetables, and then flights (the furthest distance) have stricter timetables, and (I expect) routes.

I think that even small private airfields have restrictions on when planes can land or take off, don't people have to have their flight scheduled quite far in advance, and obviously they can't fly into the international flight paths, they are restricted to what airspace they can use. If craft are coming from off world surely they will have greater restriction. It might be that you can't just land wherever when you want, but need to have a flight path booked way in advance. 

Maybe that also depends on the size of the craft. As a planet you'd be less worried about a small craft with two people on board turning up unexpected than you would a giant military warship with thousands of soldiers on.


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## Brian G Turner (May 20, 2013)

Earth already has a spaceport: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=virgin+galactic+spaceport

Alas, we're not likely to get the UK one in Lossiemouth for some time, if ever ...


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## Moonbat (May 20, 2013)

> Earth already has a spaceport: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...ctic+spaceport


 
Yup, that is very much a traditinoal airport type place, but with a longer runway, a more futuristic looking terminal and in the middle of nowhere. Is this what we can expect space-ports to look like (not just on Earth but elsewhere) or will they be more Mos Eisley style?
Could we expect Heathrow to become a space port in the future, or would a new one be built somewhere further out of London (on another swathe of greenbelt land)?


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## chrispenycate (May 20, 2013)

Where do you want these ships to be able to get to? I really don't see the private car style, perhaps learjet.

But the logical solution for today's physics is long distance ships rendez-vousing with an orbital station, and a surface to orbit craft. This smacks more of airliners, though there's plenty of parking space up there. Obviously, long term an orbital tower (beanstalk, space elevator, which ever name you prefer) is more economically interesting, and that has to be on the equator. For a spaceplane, or even a laser launcher, doing the final refuelling and launch or landing at or near the equator would be useful, too, and you'd appreciate exporting the noise levels. And I suspect not mere security (against bombs or contraband) but quarantine. The habitats are healthy, and utterly lacking in silverfish and cockroaches, people are disinfected, luggage is sterilised, blood tested, et cetera. Scans for microchips, take your shoes off, is that your genotype, sir? Not worse than now but as bad, and VIPs given courtesy side corridors.

Come back in, just the same; yes, we know no lifeform has been discovered within ten AUs, but we have to check you for Martian mange; very sorry sir but if any organism did get to Earth we would have no natural resistance and we owe it to humanity to make your arrival as unpleasant and protracted as possible…

You don't think they're going to shoot all those people just because we've got into space, do you?


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## Moonbat (May 20, 2013)

Ah Chrispy, always the voice of reason and science. But that's not what I want to hear. I want a space port filled with interesting a crazy characters taking off from well kept lawns in their ships made of jelly, but that wouldn't be science now would it.



> the logical solution for today's physics


So if we were taking about tomorrow's physics then maybe direct surface of the planet to orbit and beyond wouldn't be too illogical?



> And I suspect not mere security (against bombs or contraband) but quarantine.


 
But that is an interesting point, it does seem so well organised and structured, I suppose we would need some kind of wild west frontier style hoohah for careless and whimsical abandon where people/aliens can come and go as they please without reems of red tape and bureaurocracy.


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## Glitch (May 20, 2013)

I said:


> Earth already has a spaceport: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=virgin+galactic+spaceport
> 
> Alas, we're not likely to get the UK one in Lossiemouth for some time, if ever ...


 

Interesting design. Looks like a flying saucer. No doubt that was the idea!


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## Mirannan (May 20, 2013)

As with everything else, how much of a support crew a spaceship needs probably depends on how mature the technology is.

An analogy might be automobiles. Early on in the development of cars, anyone who wanted to use a car would have to be fairly handy with tools and know a fair bit about what made his vehicle tick, because cars broke down quite frequently. Also, regular services included some things (greasing parts of the axles, for example) that almost never get done on today's vehicles. This means that it's quite possible, now,, to use a car regularly while barely knowing how to put petrol in it.

This might well apply to space vehicles. The Shuttle required a total crew of about 30,000; the space vehicles of the 2080s might require only half a dozen or so.

One thing, however, that might count against the growth of space travel to be as free and easy as driving a car is now; it is a fact, caused by the laws of physics and unalterable, that anyone who is in control of a space vehicle of any sort is in control of a WMD.


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## BetaWolf (May 21, 2013)

Interesting posts. I would add that you could have: (a) rather less bureaucratic situations of taking off and landing; (b) highly restricted clearance procedures; or (c) somewhere in between. It should depend, aside from purely scientific limits, on level of *civilization* (paradoxically, moderate public access to space travel might be the most restrictive case) in the locale in question. 

If every rather well-to-do home had a helipad currently (as Alduous Huxley assumed they would by now), things would be rather different than they are now, with airports. Do most private space travelers own their own conveyance, is it like public transit (as Buzz Aldrin imagined it will be--with regular ferry service), or something in between?

As for facilities, I would imagine they would be rather like seaports and airports today--certain zones for private craft (like a marina--but with the need for inspection and registration); private or corporate owned facilities; and other areas for military craft that would be highly restricted. I imagine something like the East Indian Company exploiting the asteroid belt and beyond, so permission to land and take off again would depend on the rules established by whoever claims sovereignty over this or that rock--provided these rules can be enforced. 

Keep in mind (as a useful analogy, perhaps) that in the early decades of railroad travel--up to the mid-20th century, private train cars were rather common. You could arrange to have your Pullman tethered to whatever train was going where you wanted to go.


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## Huttman (May 21, 2013)

I am inclined to think they would look like Mos Eisley, not because I love Star Wars, but because its practical. Something that will disappear from modern airports has got to be the runway. We will have Verticle Take off or Landing vehicles (VTOL) someday so the look of modern flight hubs will change. Each vehicle will no doubt have very advanced 3D radar in them for safety reason. Perhaps a conning tower would be all that remains of current airports, again for safety reasons, perhaps not. I think personal flying vehicles will become more abundant/affordable in the future, very few now can afford the lear jet solution or private helicopter. 
Mos Eisley was a frontier town, too. For larger developed planets, I'm sure for larger vehicles a hub somewhat resembling current designs will stay the course albeit with no runways since anti-grav/repulsor lifts is only a matter of time away. I'm hoping, anyway.


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## Mirannan (May 21, 2013)

There is, IMHO, another point about the likelihood of personal air cars - even with the assumption that they become as easy to fly and maintain as cars are now. Personally, I think that air travel will always be more restricted than ground travel, at least until we get to the point that fully automated travel is possible. The reason is that a car crash has limited and local effects; but an air crash, even between two car-sized vehicles, is likely to rain debris and burning fuel over a wide area. Bits of aircraft landing on someone is likely to be lethal.


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## chrispenycate (May 22, 2013)

Moonbat said:


> Ah Chrispy, always the voice of reason and science. But that's not what I want to hear. I want a space port filled with interesting a crazy characters taking off from well kept lawns in their ships made of jelly, but that wouldn't be science now would it.
> 
> 
> So if we were taking about tomorrow's physics then maybe direct surface of the planet to orbit and beyond wouldn't be too illogical?
> ...



Grumble. Bureaucrats, particularly customs official and immigration type bureaucrats, are tough as cockroaches and slightly messier when you squish them. Certainly on Earth there is no hope of exterminating them without destruction of the biosphere.

 OK, future technology, present day physics.

 MHD (magnetohydrodynamics)
We've got a hydrogen fusion generator compact enough to fit into an aeroplane fuselage, and magnetic field control of plasma (probably the same technology). Engines are jet style, but with much hotter exhaust gases – not gas at all, actually but dissociated plasma, kept away from vaporising the mechanics by magnetic separation.

Our airport is exactly that; different runways  for intercontinental jets, private planes, space planes, tourist orbitals… if it's busy enough, different terminals to maintain separation between the families going to Formentera and the serious tourists taking bucket and spade to the sands of Mars.

Laser launcher

You drive up with your spaceship, or atmosphere fly it in, and it is loaded into a capsule which is fired from a linear accelerator (rail gun, very big), probably in the Andes. The tail end of the capsule is shaped like a combustion chamber, but nothing is burnt in it; instead a pulse of laser energy heats the air in it to plasma temperatures, accelerating it forward, then repeat many times, steadily higher until there isn't enough air to make it worth ejecting. Now we inject reaction mass into the cavity (probably water, but only because it's cheap and doesn't pollute much), rinse and repeat until we achieve escape velocity, where the capsule falls away(either parachuted back to the planet or used as construction material in space) and the ship – stumpy wings and tail, capable of hypersonic flight but very poor at gliding, wheels capable of propulsion, spun up before touchdown to prevent runway friction burning them up. Landing anywhere with an atmosphere should be within its capacities, but reorbiting requires there to be another laser launch system on the destination planet.

	The actual launch region is more like a car ferry than ai airport. Queues of parked spaceships awaiting their allotted slots, in a selection of standardised sizes.
You drive or fly in and go through security who unlock your interplanetary plasma drive (strictly forbidden within atmosphere), do a blood test for each passenger, immunisation shots, then you're given a card with a display doing a continuous estimation of time until departure that will beep at you when you ought to rejoin your vehicle.
Restaurants, souvenir shops, book shops, all the latest 3Vs and feelies, for those who've  turned up early a baths/massage parlour, and bars, which can serve any kind of intoxicant as long as you can get to your ship afterwards; you've plenty of time to sober up while your fate is in the hands (?) of computers, and Murphy.

Orbital endless belt

We build our orbital tower but instead of running the equivalent of railway carriages on it we hook on our soon to be space craft. Separate lines for those stopping at the counterweight and those departing for other destinations in the solar system. Elastic tether which spreads the starting jerk (still a major shock, though). Coming down on the other side of the string, returnees and freight containers of objects manufactured in free fall. Has to be on the equator, so the spaceport is hot and sweaty, unless we can build a convenient mountain. Departures is much the same as the laser launcher version; it doesn't matter that you're somewhat inebriated for the lift off, you've got over thirty hours of trip ahead of you. Arrivals has a much more enthusiastic use of the baths; I don't care how good your in-ship toilet facilities are, after thirty plus hours you're going to want someone else's.


Future Physics
Gravity Control

No, not Cavorite – too many disadvantages, like breaking conservation laws. Something that, when you apply power to it reduces or merely modifies the gravitational field of an object.
This is the most advanced of the systems, but the slowest, since it doesn't have to achieve escape velocity, just bring escape velocity down to where the ship already possesses it. So even a personal craft is as big as a Winnebago, and there is no upper limit to size. If you can afford to you can fit your house with one of these and settle in Oklahoma, then, if a tornado or taxman is predicted fly to Nevada. Or the moon, if your double glazing's good enough.
There's no need for a specific spaceport; take off from your own back yard. Sure, the FAA'll fine you if you go too close to a major


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## BetaWolf (May 23, 2013)

Good breakdown of future possibilities.

I would add (unless someone did before) that launch windows should probably come into play. But some factors like space stations acting as waypoints between major destinations could mitigate the importance of launch windows. I guess!


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## Barracooda (May 31, 2013)

I'm personally a fan of the 'space elevator' idea, as was proposed by Arthur C Clarke I believe.

It would make sense to have large, space-going vessels made in orbit out of materials mined and produced in space to save on rocketing costs. Then perhaps a big orbital complex of departure lounges and shopping facilities, I'm guessing there may be some tax relief for alcohol, perfume and cigarettes sold in space, connected to the elevator.

I envisage the elevator car itself being like a cruise liner or a ferry, complete with bars restaurants and other facilities, designed to make your leisurely journey into orbit quite comfortable.

At the elevator base I imagine 'Earth' themed parks, shows, museums, casinos. Like Vegas times a million. And about a thousand acres of car parks. The whole thing would end up the size of a small country.


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## Barracooda (May 31, 2013)

Mirannan said:


> There is, IMHO, another point about the likelihood of personal air cars - even with the assumption that they become as easy to fly and maintain as cars are now. Personally, I think that air travel will always be more restricted than ground travel, at least until we get to the point that fully automated travel is possible. The reason is that a car crash has limited and local effects; but an air crash, even between two car-sized vehicles, is likely to rain debris and burning fuel over a wide area. Bits of aircraft landing on someone is likely to be lethal.



I think private air-travel of this nature would have to be fully-automated from the off. It's very likely that ground-based driving will become fully-automated (at least on motorways/freeways) before flying cars take to the skies.


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