# Some questions for people who are skilled visual artists



## Valtharius (Apr 19, 2021)

Were you always good at drawing? I know everything takes practice but I have literally no natural talent for art and would like to learn. Any tips you can share?
How did you develop to where you are now? Is is even possible to become good starting at a skill level of literally 0? As a kid I was always appalled by how other kids could draw stuff with such realism compared to my stick figures. They seemed to have some intuitive knowledge I lacked, which makes me wonder if it can be learned. Maybe there are resources/books you'd recommend?


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## HareBrain (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm reasonable at drawing from life, and I think yours is an interesting question.

If you're aiming to make drawings that look like the real thing, then I guess you have to be able to accurately tell when your version is not right, and where it's wrong. If you can do that, then maybe it's just a case of practising until it does look right.

If you can end up, after much practice, making a decent copy of another picture or photograph, then I don't see why you can't go on to draw from life or even from memory.

My best tip for drawing is to focus as much on "negative space" (the shape of the space around the object) as much as the object itself.


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## .matthew. (Apr 19, 2021)

Are you able to clearly picture images in your mind? I can't do that and while I can draw ...okay... from life, I really struggle to do anything from my mind.

Either way, practice is probably the only way to improve. Grab a book on the fundamentals and just follow it along.


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## Laura R Hepworth (Apr 19, 2021)

I couldn't draw to save my life until I had a fantastic art professor in college.

Start with drawing from reference and direct observation (especially direct observation as it will be a more accurate reference). Learn about proportion (especially for anatomy if it's people you want to be able to draw) and about perspective. There are loads of books or online resources out there, so many that it can actually be overwhelming to know where to start.

Don't worry about drawing directly from imagination right now. There are actually very few artists that can do this without references and, for those that can, it's almost always because they have drawn those things so many times that it has simply become a matter of muscle memory. This is why practice is so important. Learn the basic fundamentals of art first (perspective, light, anatomy, and composition), and don't worry if it isn't 'perfect' the first or even fiftieth time. It takes a lot of time and a lot of practice to learn anything well.

And, really, just draw, draw, draw. Draw as much as you can and draw the same things over and over until, eventually, the accuracy improves and it becomes second nature for you.


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## Venusian Broon (Apr 19, 2021)

I decided to take up drawing a few months ago, and I too felt I was completely incapable at the start. Art zero as you say!   

But I thought, get some good pencils/pens, some reasonable quality paper, a few books to tell me what to do, then something might happen...

(I also asked around with my Aunt who is into painting, and she gave me a few books to get started.) 

So I have been following one book lately, namely _How to Draw Anything_ by Mark Linley, just to get me started. Basically it's not technical at all (I have other books on light and perspective which are a bit more academic); he's a bit 'chatty' and he breaks down things into manageable chunks. He starts with landscapes, before going on to animals, then humans. (Okay that's not 'everything', still enough to get going!) but it's gradual and he introduces better and better ways to draw stuff - for example a whole chapter on stone bridges. 

Treat everything as an experiment. I started thinking I would stick with pencil to 'learn drawing', but I've since discovered 0.1 mm fine ink pens and they are fantastic for detail, so they are now my main weapon of choice. However, I think eventually I'd like to draw directly on some sort of pad and onto a drawing app on the PC. At some point I'd like to make everything colourful, but one step at a time. 

Now I wouldn't say I've produded any spectacular (drawing like writing is, I feel, a function of how much time you put into its practice) but I did these trees a week or so back, and from a standing start a few months back, they are not perfect...but not too shabby either. Better than the clouds on sticks in my first landscape picture .


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## Mouse (Apr 19, 2021)

I always wanted to be able to draw but thought I sucked at it. Did a few pics here and there and they were sort of ok. Then in 2016 I decided I wanted to have a go at painting. Turns out, I'm actually ok at it. Entirely 'self-taught' but like with anything*, the more times you do something the better you get. Just keep doing it. I have to use something visual as inspiration, I don't think I could do something from my head. But yeah, just keep at it.

So... here's one of my early ones in 2016. Not great, right? But practise.





And here's a recent one from 2019:






*maybe that should be 'most things' as I suck at singing and no matter how much I sing, I still suck.


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## The Judge (Apr 19, 2021)

Years ago I decided I wanted to do a lot more creative stuff -- at school I was envious of the ease with which a friend of mine could draw -- and a book I found which helped me was _Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain_ by Betty Edwards.  As the title suggests, it heavily subscribes to the left side brain = logical, right side brain = artistic idea, which I think has been since debunked, but I found it very helpful, not least as the book is full of what might be termed before and after sketches by her (?mostly adult?) students showing incredible improvements in technique in only a matter of months.

One of her exercises is to copy a line drawing, _Portrait of Igor Stravinsky_ by Pablo Picasso but have the image upside-down -- your brain then has to look at the lines and copy them as they actually are not as you think you see them, if that makes sense.  I tried and was surprised at how much better my effort was when done that way, and after some further exercises I ended up doing a line drawing of my husband's profile, which I was really quite proud of.  She also talks of drawing the negative space  and perspective and the like, but she's also good at building up one's confidence and explaining how to "see" -- I think the thing that sets many artists apart is that they really look.

I didn't progress very far, largely because I didn't put in the work needed by way of continual practice -- I don't have the temperament to do exercises for the sake of doing exercises, and I want to be doing, not trying to do -- and also because I knew I wouldn't be good enough, not in my own eyes.  I firmly believe that just as with writing anyone can be taught to a certain standard, but beyond that it's necessary to have some innate talent, or at least the fixed determination to put in real hard work.  However, in my case I found an artistic medium where my lack of drawing skill didn't prevent me creating work that gave pleasure -- so even if you don't think you can draw, don't give up the idea of making art in other forms.

Speaking of drawing skill...






Not the greatest of drawings, is it?  It's _Carpenter_ by Vincent van Gogh.  He got better.


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## Valtharius (Apr 19, 2021)

Thanks everyone for your tips and encouraging words! Stories of real world improvement give me the hope I needed. Maybe my pipe dream of illustrating my own stories is achievable after all


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## Valtharius (Apr 19, 2021)

And I'll definitely check out those books!


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## Astro Pen (Apr 19, 2021)

My advice will seem to run contrary to intuition but here it is.
1.
Start with oil painting, it is the most forgiving medium
Graduate through watercolour to finally attempting pencil drawing.
Convincing pencil drawing is the hardest won skill, it takes years.
If you go straight into pencil you run a risk of becoming demoralised
Now _sketch_ with pencil straight away learn proportion perspective and such with it as a tool, but not as a final medium.

2.
Paint what you actually see, not what you _think_ should be there.
Copying a photo of a chromium object is a good exercise for that. I say photo because it has already been rendered 2 dimensionally for you.

Say this image, just paint/draw what you see, the black white and grey shapes. You just can't produce those reflections from imagination



_image credit retrocycle parts_
3.
Play with as many different techniques and materials as you can. Preferably unwatched. Don't be afraid to experiment. Some you will take to like a duck to water. Others you will hate. (I can't work with pastels, my mother loved them).

4.
Have a waste bin handy. You won't use it as much as you expect but for those time when things go irredeemably wrong no one need ever know


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## Valtharius (Apr 19, 2021)

@Astro Pen
Very interesting perspective, I never would have thought of oil painting as easier. Thanks.


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## hitmouse (Apr 20, 2021)

I heartily recommend *Drawing for the Artistically Undiscovered* by Quentin Blake and John Cassidy. A delightful series of exercises to get you over your basic artistic stage-fright and demonstrate that you can express yourself with a pen and pencil.

Re: previous advice about starting with oils. The trouble is that the basic kit and process is involved and not inexpensive.

Easier to start with a pencil/ball point/sharpie etc, and a pad of paper, and just start sketching and doodling. Small investment, instant set-up.


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## AlexH (Apr 20, 2021)

I improved at photography and digital art from zero I think. I only started taking photography seriously in my mid-late 20s, and as I got better, won local and national competitions and placed in international competitions. Improving at photography helped my composition in digital art.

I think the rules of composition are important in all visual mediums. You could start with 1 or 2 that stick out to you most: A Comprehensive Guide To Composition For Artists (and remember, all rules can be broken). I think "simplification" is a good rule to start with.


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## Ursa major (Apr 20, 2021)

HareBrain said:


> My best tip for drawing is to focus as much on "negative space" (the shape of the space around the object) as much as the object itself.


We were told this at school. Unfortunately, the first object we were given to draw was an old motorcycle with wire-spoke wheels: a nightmare that completely knocked me sideways as I began to doubt that I could draw even a simple shape at the same time as trying to make it fit with all the others (of which there were far too many), and all the while thinking, "I can draw the spokes, however many there are!"

He was much better at teaching about perspective and vanishing points. (Luckily, probably, we didn't get into the more complex aspects so, unlike the "drawing shapes", I was frightened off.



Mouse said:


> Just keep doing it.


I like that "2019" painting, Mouse. You can almost see the cogs turning in its head, so it isn't just your technique that has improved with practice; it's your "eye".


Mouse said:


> I suck at singing and no matter how much I sing, I still suck.


I see the problem you have: for singing to work, it's better to "blow" rather than suck....


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## HareBrain (Apr 20, 2021)

Ursa major said:


> We were told this at school. Unfortunately, the first object we were given to draw was an old motorcycle with wire-spoke wheels


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## Valtharius (Apr 21, 2021)

Great advice everyone, thank you.


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## tinkerdan (Apr 21, 2021)

One of my favorites for learning human figure drawing...





						Dynamic Figure Drawing: Hogarth, Burne: 9780823015771: Amazon.com: Books
					

Dynamic Figure Drawing [Hogarth, Burne] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Dynamic Figure Drawing



					www.amazon.com
				



I started because of comic books 
so, studying the various comic artists was helpful.


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## reddishbird (Apr 21, 2021)

How great that you're so keen on art!I have always drawn and painted and taught art for a good while to kids and adults. I suggest the best thing to do is to begin by copying or drawing from life, and draw what you actually see - not what you think may be there. Try a simple subject to begin with and practice with slightly harder things gradually. This may take a while but that doesn't matter. And remember that all artists, everybody, however fab thery are, all make a ton of mistakes!

This is one of mine - Goldberry from LOTR.


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## Valtharius (Apr 22, 2021)

@reddishbird 
It's one of many things I wish I knew more about.


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## reddishbird (Apr 22, 2021)

All you need is a piece of paper and a pencil, some time, and the patience to make mistakes. Just have a go  .


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## Valtharius (Apr 22, 2021)

Patience...the one thing you can't buy.


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## reddishbird (Apr 24, 2021)

If there's anything I can help you with, let me know


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## Aquilonian (Jun 1, 2021)

I don't think that how one does at school is a reliable guide to what talent or capability one can acquire in adult life. In school there are too many other factors, like incompetent, uninspiring or hostile teachers, peer pressure from other kids, rubbish materials to work with, distractions inside and outside of the classroom, status accorded to different subjects, etc. Much of what I most enjoy now doing is stuff I hated at school. 

My favourite how-to books on drawing are the three books by Patrick J Jones, in one of which he says that even after 20+ years as a successful artist he needs to draw something every day otherwise his skills get rusty. He advises getting a large amount of the cheapest possible brown paper to begin with so you're not afraid to make mistakes. He also advises to start with charcoal.


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## JohnM (Jun 2, 2021)

All one needs is a stack of paper and a pencil. Kids starting out don't need complex instructions, they just draw. The same for adults regardless of age. Where to start? Copy black and white art you like, but don't trace it. Then color art. Don't think beyond just getting used to the idea that you've taken your first step. I think a lot of newer 'how to draw' books are just bad. I would strongly suggest getting books by Andrew Loomis. The main problem to overcome is making flat drawings look three-dimensional so getting a copy of his book, Successful Drawing, is a must.

Start simple. Don't select art that is complicated, especially artists that use a lot of lines. I suggest comic books and newspaper comic strips. For those in the US, comic books with art by John Buscema, Steve Ditko and John Romita, Sr. of Spider-Man fame. Yes, these classics are best since they show good human anatomy in simplified form. For newspaper artists, Hal Foster, who drew Prince Valiant, and Al Williamson who drew Secret Agent X-9. For those who like Disney type cartoons get Animation by Preston Blair, published by Walter Foster.

I cannot overstress the importance of starting with simple drawings. Beginners, regardless of age, can be quickly overwhelmed by complex drawings and enter into a "I can't do that" mindset. Well, that particular artists *did* do that, and taking a step by step approach is the best way. Learn to draw the head from different angles, then the hands and so on. 

Dynamic Figure Drawing by Burne Hogarth is a bit too subtle in presentation. He does not present the problem of perspective drawing well, which is why I would recommend Andrew Loomis.

And computers. They can't teach you how to draw. Pencil and paper, along with a bit of imagination, are cheaper and better overall. The issue of drawing figures and objects correctly in perspective can be worked out without computers, and drawing this way will be your most sure way forward.


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## JunkMonkey (Jun 3, 2021)

I don't know if I count as a 'skilled' visual artist but I draw.  Like most things it takes practice.  The only pieces of advice I will feel confident about passing on are:

*Look at what you are drawing not the at the drawing.*   Don't get hooked up on what the drawing looks like...  just _draw_.  Look at the drawing afterwards.  I haven't been for the longest time (Damn you Covid!) but I used to go to life drawing sessions with the local art group.

While I was with the group I found out that I draw fast.  I draw... and as soon as it 'starts to go wrong'. I stop.  And I start a new drawing.  I was piling up paper while other people were meticulously working away at trying to 'fix' whatever problems they were having.  Maybe it worked for them but if I tried to do that I just end up very irritated with a sketchbook full of muddy messes.  Nope stop. Put it down. Get it right next time.

One of the greatest drawing lessons I ever had was at Art School.  The model was in one room... our drawing boards in the room next door.  You had to LOOK.  Fix the line in your head... then go next door and put it down on the paper.  That was hard.  I once spent an hour drawing a barmaid in a pub in Edinburgh but only as she was pulling pints from a particular pump so she was returned to the same position.  That was fun.

_*Don't get hooked up on getting expensive paper and top of the range drawing stuff*_.

Those two drawings (bare naked woman alert)  - one was done with a bog standard 2b office pencil, the other with a 99p fineliner pen - both in a sketchbook that I bought in Lidl.  The pen one was me pushing myself outside my comfort zone because I don't normally draw with a pen.  I stopped when I realised I had just done  Franco Belgian comic book modelling on her knee there.  It had stopped being a drawing and was a bit of art.

_*Carry a sketchbook at all times*_ and draw from life or doodle and just have fun with the pen pencil or whatever.  (Personally I like 0.5mm propelling pencils with an HP lead.)

This is a doodle from one of my sketchbooks that I later used in Photoshop to try out a few 'new to me' buttons I thought I'd like to play with :





Which brings me to the last and most important:

*You can fix it in Photoshop!* - In a book on book illustration a well-known, professional  artist whose work I like wrote something along the lines of: "If I've drawn a great looking hand but it's too big or slightly in the wrong place why waste it?  It's a good looking hand I'm not going to rub it out and start again.  I'll cut it out and resize it in Photoshop."

Lightbulb!


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## JohnM (Jun 3, 2021)

Live models are a waste. I took Life Drawing at University and it was a waste of time. Learning how to draw distinct shapes and then putting it all together makes for good drawing. All objects, including the human body, are collections of shapes. The next problem is correct lighting. It takes a bit of practice but it can be learned.

Photoshop is only useful if you know how to draw.

For example, the company I work for uses a number of outside artists. A cover is sent to us as four small, black and white pencil sketches. Out of these, one is chosen. Next we get a color rough. It is usually approved as is but it is not uncommon for changes, some minor, some more complex, to be added. They are used to that. Our in-house artist was having difficulty with a pencil illustration and scanned and downloaded it to Photoshop. I had the privilege of guiding him through a difficult correction. However, it could have been done by hand. Photoshop was convenient but actually required the addition of two steps: scanning and detail correction using a drawing pad.


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## JunkMonkey (Jun 3, 2021)

JohnM said:


> Live models are a waste. I took Life Drawing at University and it was a waste of time. Learning how to draw distinct shapes and then putting it all together makes for good drawing. All objects, including the human body, are collections of shapes. The next problem is correct lighting. It takes a bit of practice but it can be learned.
> 
> Photoshop is only useful if you know how to draw.
> 
> For example, the company I work for uses a number of outside artists. A cover is sent to us as four small, black and white pencil sketches. Out of these, one is chosen. Next we get a color rough. It is usually approved as is but it is not uncommon for changes, some minor, some more complex, to be added. They are used to that. Our in-house artist was having difficulty with a pencil illustration and scanned and downloaded it to Photoshop. I had the privilege of guiding him through a difficult correction. However, it could have been done by hand. Photoshop was convenient but actually required the addition of two steps: scanning and detail correction using a drawing pad.



Photoshop is not the answer to every maiden's prayer you have to pick and chose your battles. It's a tool like everything else. Personally I find actually trying to draw in Photoshop incredibly painful but I love it for colouring and painting once I have what I'm painting fixed. (Or at least fixed enough to start work.) 

And I totally disagree that life models are a waste of time.  Stuff is more than just a reductionist collection of geometric solids arranged in interesting combinations. 3D modellers may see the world like that and technical illustrators too but the history of drawing from cave painters to the modern day is not just about the accurate utilitarian representation of the three-dimensional world onto a flat plane.  It's about the relationship of the objects the artist is drawing to the world that surrounds it.  It's about the selection of those objects and which parts of them to draw.  (It would, I suspect be difficult to draw your _entire_ field of vision - though now I have thought of it - I might give it a go).  It's about looking, focussing on what the world actually looks like, not what some internal world view_ says_ it should look like, and then developing that skill to represent that understanding in a way that is readable by others.  

Ask kids to draw a rainbow and half of them will draw (from the outside inwards) arcs of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple.  The other half (from the outside inwards) arcs  of purple, blue, green, yellow, orange, red.  Both lots of kids will be happy that they have drawn a rainbow but only one lot has, and probably then only by accident.  I would also pretty confident in saying 99% of them will have drawn it as a solid, opaque object that hides anything 'behind' it from view and it will touch the ground on both sides of the paper. Very very few of those kids would have actually looked at rainbows and noted the outside colour is always red, that they rarely 'touch the ground' on both sides and you can see through the buggers.  Most of them will have put on paper what they _think_ a rainbow looks like.


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## JohnM (Jun 3, 2021)

Wooden models of simplified human bodies are still sold. I have a plastic version from Japan. Even in the case of cartoon drawing, a model, or maquette, is made for artists to work from. They can rotate and tilt it to check their work.

I think beginning artists should start with cartoons. Take drawing a person who is thin, just right and overweight. Live models can have a wide range of body shapes and faces. Learning how to identify basic shapes and working with simple drawings at first will help immensely when drawing actual things as they are.


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## JunkMonkey (Jun 3, 2021)

JohnM said:


> Wooden models of simplified human bodies are still sold. I have a plastic version from Japan. Even in the case of cartoon drawing, a model, or maquette, is made for artists to work from. They can rotate and tilt it to check their work.


 That's fine if you're drawing robots, or puppets.  Models like that can be useful for blocking things out.  But real people are more than a jointed mannequin no matter how sophisticated (as my teenage daughter who just looked over my shoulder and asked me what I was doing said,  "well they ain't got tits for one thing have they?"  which is true I suppose... I do wonder about that child.)  People are all differently proportioned. We don't all fit classical Greek proportions and the body twists and turns, muscles and tendons and ligaments shape the whole way we look as we move.  Puppets don't do that.  Moving an arm moves muscles in the back, lifting a leg will make the person shift their weight unconsciously to compensate and reshape the body.  This is why, after decades of development, 3D CGI models still have that Uncanny Valley thing going on.  We can *see* the difference. We can't define it but we can see it. This is why drawing from real life IS necessary. Understanding the way real people hold themselves and move is important if you are going to make (representative) art that has any meaning.


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## JohnM (Jun 3, 2021)

We can define things. To quote Andrew Loomis: "Why guess when you can find out?"

Yes, after learning where the bones and muscles are, and how hidden they can be, can looking at a real life person make sense. Once the muscle groups are known and how they work, do all of those real-life movements become less of a mystery. All of those lines that an artist draws mean something.

Yes, portraying emotions and the way a person stands or sits are very important things. They bring the drawing to life. But not knowing the basics means it's harder. I have little difficulty drawing from life but a model will not always be available. Photos can be useful but the most useful involve only a single light source outdoors, giving a natural look. Professionally taken photos could use multiple light sources and be retouched, rendering them less useful.


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## JunkMonkey (Jun 11, 2021)

I thought of another thing. 

Don't be afraid to turn the paper (or whatever it is you're drawing on) till it's easier for you to make the mark you need to make.  Why struggle getting a curve that goes against the natural arc of your drawing arm when you can simply rotate the image to make the curve easier to draw?

Watch a comic book inker at work - they're always adjusting the angle of the piece they're working on.


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## Mon0Zer0 (Jun 12, 2021)

Drawabox | A free, exercise based approach to learning the fundamentals of drawing
					

A free, exercise based approach to learning the fundamentals of drawing. We tackle drawing in a logical, analytical fashion inspired by concept artists and industrial designers, focusing on technical skills that can be developed with hard work and determination.




					drawabox.com
				




I highly recommend Drawabox. That and Scott Robertson's "How to draw: drawing and sketching objects from your imagination."

Both of these will give you a thorough grounding in the fundamentals of sketching and drawing, including perspective, proportion, constructing shapes, texture, shading and line weight. They're both technically orientated, but they're the fastest ways to learn and fully incorporate good practice (such as drawing from the shoulder, using pens rather than pencils to get used to making confident lines at first, turning the page and so on) to get you up and running.

Drawabox can be a bit of a slog at first, particularly with the 250 box challenge, but you'll be surprised how much your drawing has improved after just the first lesson. It quickly moves from basic shapes into organic forms and then drawing animals. One thing drawabox emphasises is learning to enjoy the actual process of making lines on the page - and the first lesson tries to make you continually draw with that in mind.  Once you can see shapes and proportion, you're pretty much on your way to being a skilled artist.

After that, best to join a life drawing class and get practising anatomy, value and colour theory.

The Andrew Loomis books for drawing heads and people are excellent, as recommended above.

The good thing about learning fundamentals is that you can apply them to any art style, even if technical drawing or representative art styles aren't your thing.


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## Astro Pen (Jun 13, 2021)

If you buy yourself only one book on how to draw and paint, make it this one. 
Elizabeth Andrewes _A Manual for Drawing and Painting _






						Manual for Drawing and Painting (Teach Yourself) Andrewes, Elizabeth by Andrewes, Elizabeth: Good Paperback (1982) | Re-Read Ltd
					

Available now at AbeBooks.co.uk - ISBN: 9780340222430 - Paperback - Teach Yourself Books - 1982 - Book Condition: Good - Book is in good condition. Cover has some wear. Fingermarks present. Page discolouration present. Creasing present. Previous owners name present.



					www.abebooks.co.uk


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