# Microsoft Visual Studio Express 2010



## Tinsel (Jul 15, 2010)

I have the C# 2008 express installed already on my computer running on Vista. I see that there is a 2010 version but I'll stay with the 2008 since I have a book on C# that contains code based on the 2008 express C# compiler and whatever version of .Net that was current at the time.

I tried walking thought the book a couple years ago and went close to half way but I became bored. I didn't have any program in mind, but I've now had a program in mind for a while and I think I'll finally quickly run through the book in order to familiarize myself with Visual Studio as well as .Net and C#. I know how to program but I don't know these libraries and I am only somewhat familiar with the different application types that are available. I can figure all of this out within six months or so.

Well I have a few board games and I want to have a computer opponent or rather a couple of computer opponents. That is one of the programs that I am going to write. If I upgrade my laptop than I'll download Visual Studio 2010 express and pick up a new C# book to go along with the most modern version(s).

Is anyone else using express? It is a free version of Visual Studio but as far as I can see, you can't use it for commercial purposes, only private use. Well why not. This winter will especially be prime time to sit and work away on the computer and I just need to keep exercising at the same time. I'm trying to lose some weight here. Anyway, I will bring myself up to date in Windows application development. I know that there are the client side applications as well as the server side applications. My focus is the client using C# but I've messed around a tiny bit with ASP.Net and the Visual Web Developer IDE which enables you to execute ASP.Net code on the client with a practice server (SQL Server Express) so you can test out your applications before you find a host provider with SQL servers and ASP.Net, not all of them do that. Anyway that Web Developer IDE was really cool. It was quite fun, so I might go there after I learn some C# and Windows Forms or the newer library (I forget the name).

If there are any comments that you can make about it or is there any new ideas out there that someone should be aware of on this topic? Or else has anyone made any applications?


----------



## Lenny (Jul 15, 2010)

Watch your language; this is a family forum! 

In a serious vein, I tried VS 2005 and the beta for 2008 once and I hated them both. No, not hated, despised, detested, abhorred. I properly, truly, totally wanted to shake whichever fools had built them until I could shake them no more. These days I use Eclipse for Java and C, and when I'm feeling nostalgic I fire up Visual Studio 6 in XP Mode and make some pretty forms with equally pretty code. 

C# is a language I want to try, simply to have tried it, but you'll have to tie me down and torture me for months before I even contemplate .Net development.

Just my personal opinions. 

---



> Well I have a few board games and I want to have a computer opponent or rather a couple of computer opponents.



What's your programming experience? You might have something of a steep learning curve ahead of you if you've not done this sort of thing before. Nothing impossible, but things could be slow going for a short time.

One of my sub-modules this year dealt with AI Search, and we had a few lectures on intelligent agents. If you find yourself struggling at any point, I'll be happy to send you the slides - the lecturer liked to pack them with information, so they're a bit long-winded, and some of the logic will look foreign if you've not done it before, but the basic ideas are there and there are a couple of examples using simple 'games'.

I've never programmed AI as an opponent for a game before, but I understand some of the theory; you've set yourself quite an interesting project. I bet you can have quite a lot of fun working out optimal heuristics for the next move algorithms and the like!


----------



## Tinsel (Jul 16, 2010)

The first step will be reading a couple of books, one on C# using Visual Studio .Net 2008, and the other on ASP.Net using VS.Net 2008. Than I can see about designing an application in C# and I can post here the high level behavior that I want to implement. I would probably even give out the game if the executable can be deployed. I don't think it would cause much of a wave and not many people would want it, but I will write an application for a board game such as Arkham Horror or Age of Conan, etc. Yes, and a computer opponent. Someone might wonder why I would want to play against he computer instead of a human. I've played D&D in the past with friends but people go their different ways. It was a blast at the time.

*Current Experience *(I have not programed in quite a few years):
-_Language Definitions_:
I know how to program in C which involves working in a procedural paradigm. I know a reasonable amount of multi paradigm standard C++, but I do not have a lot of experience working in OOP, and I know that .Net libraries are organized into a namespaces and an object oriented framework hierarchy. What might give me a bit of trouble is thinking in terms of objects. I'll have to take my time. 
-_Algorithms_:
Alright, I have done plenty of text input and output using data stored in files. I've worked with dynamic memory storage using linked lists as well as trees, searching and sorting algorithms such as bubble, and a couple others that I actually forget now. I know that standard c++ relies on the STL library but I am only partially familiar with the STL.
-_C#_:
Okay, now C# makes sense when you are using .Net. It might make more sense than any other language although it is translated to an intermediate language. I think that C# is the way to go but outside of .Net I'd lean toward standard C++ since it is multi paradigm. Now here in .Net I'm going to have to gain some familiarity with the .Net framework libraries which are substantial and if I am writing a certain type of application than I will have to focus on the subset such was Windows Forms or whatever it is that I need to use. The last area that I'll have to become familiar with is using the IDE for rapid windows development (the front end).

So here is the breakdown:
1. Learn the C# language definition.
2. Learn how to use one of the .Net library namespaces for the type of application that I want to write.
3. Lean how to use Visual Studio.Net IDE tools and create the front end.
4. Design my application logic (general computer science).

I'm not in a big rush here, but I'll blow through a chapter or two each week. There are 22 chapters in one of the books, that might take me three months without any trouble because I could probably complete it in six weeks if I needed to. Than there is the second book which I'll read just because I own it, why let it go to waste. Than I'll finally write the application. The only question is whether or not I will have enough grasp of the C# language definition. If not than I'll have to read some tutorials online.

Now the last thing that I will have to do is exercise because I can't sit in front of the computer without putting in cardio workouts. I was in great shape three years ago. When I talked to Bjarne Stroustrup he had said that he was running 5 miles several times a week. Now that sounds like over kill, but it is actually a good idea to combine this stuff with a fitness plan, and there is another secret or two I'm sure but that is all that I am saying.


----------

