# War Movies



## J-Sun (Jul 19, 2012)

Galacticdefender's post in the "last movies" thread about _Das Boot_ being one of the best war movies got me to thinking about that topic. I couldn't find an existing thread on the topic so here's this.

I'm not a huge war movie person, so I could probably learn a thing or two from people who've seen more. (I know I've seen a lot and forgotten many, but I haven't made a point of seeing as many as possible.)

I'm not sure if my favorite war movie of all time is _*Apocalypse Now*_ (1979; Viet Nam) or *The Bridge on the River Kwai* (1957; WWII) (like _Das Boot_, very long movies) but they're both up there. Then it'd probably be *Platoon* (1986; Viet Nam). I think *Das Boot* (1981; WWII) would be next.

For a completely different angle, I saw *Sgt. York* (1941; WWI) on TV when I was a little kid and haven't seen it since - I loved it then but I don't know how well it would hold up. _The Pride of the Yankees_ is another Gary Cooper flick I saw around the same time and did get a chance to see that again relatively recently and, while it didn't completely hold up, it was in the ballpark of being as good as I remembered it. So memory would put it on the list, anyway.

Yours?


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## Dave (Jul 19, 2012)

I certainly think your suggestions are a good start. 

Looking around existing online lists: http://www.filmsite.org/greatwarfilms.html it would seem that the "war movie" genre is a pretty loosely applied term - I mean from _Gone With the Wind_ (1939) and _Schindler's List_ (1993) to _The Pianist_ (2002), _Spartacus_ (1960) and _Richard III_ (1995)!!!

If you include those then many people are going to say _Casablanca_ (1942).

I think we might find more national differences of opinion. I'd probably place *The Dam Busters* (1955) and *633 Squadron* (1964) much higher than you would.

I personally do like *Where Eagles Dare* (1968), *The Great Escape* (1963) and *The Dirty Dozen* (1967), but my personal favourite would be *Ice Cold in Alex* (1958). Being ex-Navy, my father's favourite film was *The Battle of the River Plate *(1956).

I think the main one that you left out, that almost everyone would agree on, would have to be *M*A*S*H *(1970).


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## alchemist (Jul 19, 2012)

*Where Eagles Dare* was my favourite film for about a decade (until Raiders of The Lost Ark came about). I'd like to add *Saving Private Ryan* and *Three Kings *to the above.


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## J-Sun (Jul 20, 2012)

Dave said:


> I certainly think your suggestions are a good start.
> 
> Looking around existing online lists: http://www.filmsite.org/greatwarfilms.html it would seem that the "war movie" genre is a pretty loosely applied term - I mean from _Gone With the Wind_ (1939) and _Schindler's List_ (1993) to _The Pianist_ (2002), _Spartacus_ (1960) and _Richard III_ (1995)!!!
> 
> If you include those then many people are going to say _Casablanca_ (1942).



I actually thought of that - I love the "desperate people in a wretched hive of scum and villainy" aspect of that movie - it's a great one - but, while it's very much a war movie in a loose sense, I think that's stretching the term a bit much.

Thanks for the link - I'll look at that in-depth soon.



> I think we might find more national differences of opinion. I'd probably place *The Dam Busters* (1955) and *633 Squadron* (1964) much higher than you would.



Could be, but _633 Squadron_, at least, is one I should see. I read the first 633 Squadron book and one of the later ones (which was the one flying up a Norwegian fjord to bomb a "heavy water" experimental place?) long ago and I really enjoyed those.



> I think the main one that you left out, that almost everyone would agree on, would have to be *M*A*S*H *(1970).



I actually came to that one via the TV show and I liked the TV show more (at least the early ones, though the late ones are good in their ways, too) but that is a good point - I wasn't even really thinking of comic war movies. _M*A*S*H_ was darkly comic but you could throw things like _Kelly's Heroes_ on for good - more plainly comic - war movies.


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## reiver33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Black Hawk Down (2001)
Gettysburg (1993)
Downfall (2004) 

I'm just a sucker for a happy ending...


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## Foxbat (Jul 20, 2012)

My favourites (in no particular order)
*The Great Escape*,  *The Longest Day*, *A Bridge Too Far*, *Stalingrad*, *Downfall*, *Waterloo*.


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## Allegra (Jul 20, 2012)

J-Sun said:


> I'm not sure if my favorite war movie of all time is _*Apocalypse Now*_ (1979; Viet Nam) or ...


 
That film is unforgettable!

Generally I'm not keen on war themes. Two fabulous war movies I can think of are Spielberg's *War Horse* and Tarantino's *Inglourious Bastards*.


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## J-Sun (Jul 20, 2012)

Dave said:


> Looking around existing online lists: http://www.filmsite.org/greatwarfilms.html it would seem that the "war movie" genre is a pretty loosely applied term - I mean from _Gone With the Wind_ (1939) and _Schindler's List_ (1993) to _The Pianist_ (2002), _Spartacus_ (1960) and _Richard III_ (1995)!!!



Yep, having looked at the list, some I'd definitely add, except that I don't think of them as war movies, would be

The General (1927)
Notorious (1946)
Dr. Strangelove (1964)

I mean, the description for _Notorious_ even says the setting is "Rio de Janiero in Brazil after WWII" - so how can that possibly be a war movie? It says right there that it's an "after war movie". And _Strangelove_ is a pre-war or un-war or ultra-war movie. Black comedy of apocalypse. Technically, I guess I can't argue with _The General_ but one of the funniest movies ever, in which the civilian Buster Keaton represents the practical entirety of one side of the "combatants", is hardly the quintessential war movie. 

Does beg the question, "What is a war movie?" though. To me, it can be as loose or strict as one wants, of course, but I think it usefully ought to take place in the time and place of what is historically/legally recognized as an actual war. Anything else is ruled right out. And then I think it ought to go a little further and feature actual battles/missions or other military situations as a foreground element. (It doesn't have to be all that or even primarily, but significantly - not just troops marching through town or whatever. Those are "wartime" movies, say - effects on civilians, etc.). Reasonable?



Allegra said:


> Generally I'm not keen on war themes. Two fabulous war movies I can think of are Spielberg's *War Horse* and Tarantino's *Inglourious Bastards*.



I _still_ haven't gotten around to the Tarantino, but I hope to very soon.


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## Allegra (Jul 20, 2012)

Dave said:


> Looking around existing online lists: http://www.filmsite.org/greatwarfilms.html it would seem that the "war movie" genre is a pretty loosely applied term - I mean from _Gone With the Wind_ (1939) and _Schindler's List_ (1993) to _The Pianist_ (2002), _Spartacus_ (1960) and _Richard III_ (1995)!!!


 
*The Pianist*, together with *Life Is Beautiful* are among my all time favourites!


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## Snowdog (Jul 20, 2012)

Another vote here for Ice Cold In Alex - just great acting in a small, personal war story.

Other favourites are The Cruel Sea, Dunkirk and a strange little film called A Canterbury Tale.

For action films I'd go with A Bridge Too Far and The Bridge At Remagen.

Does Zulu count? Most exciting film I've ever seen, the first time I watched it.


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## dask (Jul 21, 2012)

A Walk In The Sun
Go For Broke
Darby's Rangers
Paths Of Glory
Cross Of Iron
and yes, The Longest Day


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## Allegra (Jul 21, 2012)

Not to forget *Empire of the Sun*. Christian Bale is a natural born great actor.


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## Nerds_feather (Jul 21, 2012)

There's a late Soviet era film called *Come and See* that is probably the best war movie I've ever seen.

At other good, obscure one is *Witnesses*, a Croatian film about a war crime in progress.


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## steve12553 (Jul 22, 2012)

Dave said:


> I think the main one that you left out, that almost everyone would agree on, would have to be *M*A*S*H *(1970).


 
*MASH* was more of an anti-war movie as opposed to a people dealing with the horrors of war type such as *The Bridge on the River* *Kwai*.  In the same category as *MASH* but probably better (though less popular) is *Catch 22.* 
The war movies tend to have a message of anti-war but don't seem to judge the politics merely the horrors of the situations. 
*Dr. Strangelove* is more of an anti-cold war film with a blatant message of the stupidity of the arms build up. (Do you really need to have enough to kill everybody twice?)
All are excellent films but the messages do have very different tones.


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## J-Sun (Jul 22, 2012)

J-Sun said:


> Allegra said:
> 
> 
> > Generally I'm not keen on war themes. Two fabulous war movies I can think of are Spielberg's *War Horse* and Tarantino's *Inglourious Bastards*.
> ...



Very soon. And worst timing ever. I wasn't enjoying the movie even before the theater scene but, given current events, I couldn't possibly watch that scene with anything like "aesthetic objectivity" and, given that, I can't possibly evaluate the film properly. But, even if I could, I doubt the result would change. It had some great performances from the guy who played M. LePaditte (sp?) and some others or at least great presences from both blonde women and some... interesting storytelling devices or scene gimmicks and maybe, after telling a bunch of great revenge movies, he was trying to make an anti-revenge movie or something but - voices of Jackson and Keitel notwithstanding - it lacked significant members of the usual crew; millisecond flashbacks notwithstanding, the story was told chronologically; the occasional funny line (but, alas, few or no serious lines) notwithstanding, the dialog didn't sparkle, etc. Even with Tarantino's gaggles of cretins, there's usually something to make at least some of them interesting so that you're invested in what happens but I didn't care about any of these people at all - ain't no redeeming features nowhere.

But that's just me. And, like I say, bad timing.


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## Droflet (Jul 23, 2012)

Enemy at the Gates.
Band of Brothers. 
All Quite on the Western Front (1930)
The Enemy Below
Full Metal Jacket
They Were Expendable
Command Decision
Patton
The Hurt Locker
Captain Horatio Hornblower (Yeah, it's a stretch, but fun)

Enjoy


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## The Procrastinator (Jul 24, 2012)

Can't believe no one has mentioned _Gallipoli_, Peter Weir's little Aussie contribution.  Makes you laugh, makes you cry.

And what about _Lawrence of Arabia_.


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## Miggy (Aug 6, 2012)

Tae Guk Gi: The Brotherhood of War is the best war film I've seen.
Definitely check it out if you don't mind subtitles.


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## Starbeast (Aug 7, 2012)

A lot of great ones I really enjoyed are already mentioned, so I'll list some that haven't been.

*Mohammad: Messenger of God* (1976) - Based on a true story, depicting the beginning of Islam.

*Kingdom of Heaven* (2005) - Based on a true story, an excellent Ridley Scott film!

*Stalag 17* (1953) - Excellent blend of drama and comedy.

*Inglorious Bastards* (1978) - I enjoyed this far more than the remake.

*Kelly's Heros* (1970) - Surreal war film with an awesome cast.

*The Keep* (1983) - Supernatural drama with Tangerine Dream soundtrack.

*The Beast* (1988) - A soviet tank crew gets lost in Afghanistan.

*Hell in the Pacific* (1968) - A Japanese soldier & an American soldier are stranded on an island together.

*Sniper 2* (2003) - Set during the Kosovo war.

*Gunga Din* (1939) - Classic movie!

*Hell is for Heros* (1962) - Interesting film with an explosive climax.

*Memphis Belle* (1990) - Based on a true story about a B-17 crew making their last bomb run over Germany.

*Rambo 3* (1988) - John Rambo helps Afghan freedom fighters battle against Russian military forces.

*The Last Samurai* (2003) -  Drama, depicting the end of the Samurai.


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## Kylara (Aug 7, 2012)

Not sure if *The Good, The Bad and The Ugly *counts but it is technically set in a war, there's even a big battle...and I do love that film...*Enemy at the Gates* has already been mentioned; again not sure if it counts, but *Seven Samurai*...*The Great Escape* is a marvel...*Dambusters*, and there's a submarine film I can never remember the name of which I always enjoy...
I am also very much looking forward to *Red Tails*, it's a brilliant story and I just love it, so I'm hoping it'll work well and not be too mucked about...


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## clovis-man (Aug 7, 2012)

*Platoon*
*Paths of Glory*
*Gallipoli*
*Patton*
*Lawrence of Arabia*

All great films. The first three could be firmly placed in the Anti-war category. Given some thought, the next two arguably could also.

One that needs no ruminations over intent is *The Dirty Dozen*, an unrepentant tale of derring do.

Interesting how most thoughts re war films tend to focus on the 20th century.


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## littlemissattitude (Aug 8, 2012)

Interesting list, Starbeast. *Kelly's Heroes* is one of my favorite war movies, and *Hell in the Pacific* is also very, very good. I also like *MASH* a lot.

I'm especially interested to see that you put *Stalag 17* on your list. I haven't seen it, but I heard a lot about it growing up. My father was actually in that camp as a POW for almost two years. He didn't know the gentleman who co-wrote the play that was turned into the film and who was also a POW there, but he knew others there who knew him. My father always said that the film was a very accurate portrayal of life in the camp and that he definitely recognized some of the characters in the film as having been based on people he knew while he was there.


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## Starbeast (Aug 12, 2012)

littlemissattitude said:


> I'm especially interested to see that you put *Stalag 17* on your list. I haven't seen it, but I heard a lot about it growing up. My father was actually in that camp as a POW for almost two years. He didn't know the gentleman who co-wrote the play that was turned into the film and who was also a POW there, but he knew others there who knew him. My father always said that the film was a very accurate portrayal of life in the camp and that he definitely recognized some of the characters in the film as having been based on people he knew while he was there.


 
Wow, that's an amazing adventure your father had to live through. One of my favorite kid show hosts from Chicago named Ray Rayner, said in an interview he helped to hide dirt from digging tunnels to escape from a POW camp.

See _Stalag 17_ Littlemissattitude, it is a remarkable film.


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## Abernovo (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm not the biggest fan of war movies in general, but some are simply good cinema.


*Master and Commander: Far Side of the World* (2003), a mix between Nelson's navy and Captain Blood, with Russell Crowe, invoking a touch of Erroll Flynn to portray Jack Aubray.

*Glory* (1989), based on the true story of a segregated American Civil War Union regiment, starring Washington, Freeman and Broderick - their enemies included not only Confederate regiments, but low pay, lack of equipment and prejudice from their own army.

*Kelly's Heroes* (1970), the perfect crime (links in with Crime Movies?) of robbing a bank in the confusion of war, with a great cast, perhaps anachronistic dialogue from Oddball (Donald Sutherland) and a touches of tragedy that give it an anti-war feel at times.

*Where Eagles Dare* (1968), Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton in a Boys' Own flick, as much a spy story as a war story - 'Broadsword calling Danny Boy' coming close to 'No on would have believed in the last years of the nineteenth century' as a Burton signature piece.

*Flags of Our Fathers*/*Letters from Iwo Jima* (2006), a linked pair directed by Eastwood, questioning the differences between soldiers and detailing the sacrifices made by all - arguably as much of an anti-war message as you could get, yet still supporting the troops themselves.

*Full Metal Jacket* (1987), following a squad of conscripts from brutalising training to break the men before building them into lean, mean fighting marines to combat in Vietnam and its effects, this is nothing short of 'War is Hell', with a surreal endnote that seems entirely appropriate.

*In Which We Serve* (1942), a wartime film, surprisingly with input from the Ministry of Information (propaganda), detailing the lives, in flashbacks, of sailors floating in the sea after their ship is sunk - love, loyalty, insubordination and redemption.

*Casablanca* (1942), spy thriller, crime, the French Resistance and no actual war on screen, yet an air of menace and superb relationships between the characters, from an impossible love triangle to salf-sacrificing friendship - 'play it, Sam.'


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## littlemissattitude (Aug 14, 2012)

Starbeast said:


> See _Stalag 17_ Littlemissattitude, it is a remarkable film.


 
I keep trying to see it, and I have seen parts of it. I'm going to have to see if my library system has it and borrow it from them.


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## C Of K (Aug 15, 2012)

Gettysburg - American Civil War stuff. Has a great cast of actors though. Martin Sheen, Steven Lang, Richard Jordan, Jeff Daniels, Tom Berenger, Sam Elliott, and Ted Turner among others. The movie is nearly 5 hours long though.

Band of Brothers - this was already mentioned above, but it's a great world war II film, so I felt the need to add my voice to that one.

The Lost Battalion - A great world war I film.

Glory - A more famous American Civil War film, though I don't like it as much.


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## Alex The G and T (Aug 15, 2012)

Another nod to "Where Eagles Dare."  And for more Alistair MacLean:  "The Guns of Navaronne."  Also thinking "Breakheart Pass,"  but I guess that's an Oater.

More along the line of '60;s  "WWII,Guerilla capers mode:" "Von Ryan's Express." 

"The Blue Max." Serious drama of WWI fighter pilots.

Underwater Classic, "Run Silent, Run Deep."

For Something completely different:  "The Secret of Santa Vittoria."   _Hide the wine from the Nazi's... before they steal it!"_

I gots many more.  My Dad took me to see _all_ of the war movies in the 60's and early 70's, and we'd both already read the novels.


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 15, 2012)

Oh not *Where Eagles dare*! It's ok, boys own adventure in it's own way, but the 500+ round magazine schmeisser with magic bullets that instantly killed battalions of Nazis, that Clint Eastwood had was really too much!!

I don't think anyone has mentioned Terrance Malik's *The Thin Red line *which I think is mesmorising. Apologies if I've missed it in someones list above above. 

Personally I like a bit of gritty realism so, in no particular order and including the one above (and I think all mentioned by others): _Downfall, A Bridge too far, Saving Private Ryan, Cross of Iron, Band of Brothers, Das Boot, Apocalpyse now, Platoon, Stalingrad. _

For 'boys own' adventure, no one has said *Zulu* and *Zulu dawn* I think
(take your pick if you want to be anti-british or not!) Also despite the insipid Legolas in the lead role, I quite enjoyed *Kingdom of Heaven*. And being Scottish I am legally bound to say *Braveheart*. But as a historical movie it is appalling. "Freeeedom" 

Also although they aren't films, there have been a whole raft of excellent history drama-documentaries* - too many for me to put down all (They tend to be BBC series so I'm not sure if everyone outside the UK has seen them), but a couple that are at the top of my head right now: There was an excellent series on the Wild west which had a chapter on Custer's last stand and a double on Hannibal/Scipio.


*Yep I've watched far too much UKTV History/Yesterday.


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## Foxbat (Aug 15, 2012)

Venusian Broon said:


> *Yep I've watched far too much UKTV History/Yesterday.


 
The best channel on cooncil telly

Honourable mention must go to *The Enemy Below* (including the fact that it also inspired a wonderful episode in Star Trek TOS)


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## jeff.s.p (Aug 15, 2012)

Some obscure ones


The Killing Fields:  (Vietnam photojournalist trapped behind enemy lines)
The Deer Hunter: (very slow beginning.. but has some amazing scenes)
Silent Night: ( Based on a true story)

And a more recent, but descent: Valkyrie with Tom Cruise


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## JunkMonkey (Aug 15, 2012)

Alex said:


> For Something completely different:  "The Secret of Santa Vittoria."   _Hide the wine from the Nazi's... before they steal it!"_



To continue the 'I have connections with this film theme', as a child I lived in the village where the exteriors of _The Secret of Santa Vittoria _was made.  Watching it with my parents many years ago was great fun as they kept up a running commentary about what was built for the film and what was 'real', and naming the extras etc.  For our family headpalm moments of revelation are always accompanied by a heartfelt cry of "Oh... _Niccolo _Machiavelli!"


A small and neglected war film I can recommend, having just discovered it, is the 1958 British film _Orders to Kill_, which after a bit of a shonky start turns into a really gripping moral dilemma.  Written (in part) by Paul Dehn who went on to write several of the Planet of the Apes films.


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## Toby Frost (Aug 15, 2012)

I loved *Where Eagles Dare*: a classic from the days when war films were about killing many baddies guiltlessly, which is probably done more in SF these days. 

I'd recommend *The Cruel Sea*, which isn't quite as good as the book but still great, *Doctor Zhivago*, which is about the Russian Revolution with quite a lot of war, and most of all *Went The Day Well*, a strange but excellent film about a sort of guerilla war fought by the inhabitants of a Kent village against German paratroopers. The tone is rather like the novel Rogue Male, in that it it deals with the slightly fanatical streak in the British psyche. It's very exciting and surprisingly brutal for the time it was made (1943 or so). The axe scene is particularly memorable.


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## littlemissattitude (Aug 15, 2012)

Starbeast said:


> See _Stalag 17_ Littlemissattitude, it is a remarkable film.


 
I sat down and watched Stalag 17 yesterday afternoon, finally. Found the full movie on YouTube. Amazing film, although I will admit to tears, thinking about my father's experience there. I also came away from the film with a new apprectionation for why he had to make sure no one there knew that he could understand German. He had been born in Germany and understood but did not really speak the language, because his father and mother had brought him to the States when he was 2.5 years old. They still spoke the language at home, but were determined that my dad would grow up speaking English.


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## Starbeast (Aug 15, 2012)

littlemissattitude said:


> I sat down and watched Stalag 17 yesterday afternoon, finally. Found the full movie on YouTube. Amazing film, although I will admit to tears, thinking about my father's experience there. I also came away from the film with a new apprectionation for why he had to make sure no one there knew that he could understand German. He had been born in Germany and understood but did not really speak the language, because his father and mother had brought him to the States when he was 2.5 years old. They still spoke the language at home, but were determined that my dad would grow up speaking English.


 
Thanks for sharing a part of your family's history, and I know you are very proud of your father. Glad you liked the film.

It was my pleasure to chat with you Littlemissattitude.


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## littlemissattitude (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm glad your post reminded me of the movie. I think of it every once in awhile and have intended to see it, but just never have quite gotten around to it before. I've also hesitated to watch it because of the connection to my father, who I still miss very much even though he has been dead since 1978.

Thank you for giving me that extra push to go ahead and see it. I'm very glad I did, and I'm sure I'll watch it again.

Forgot to add: I also looked the movie up on IMDB, and found it interesting that the movie was filmed at a movie ranch here in California, not very many miles where my father grew up, and where I grew up as well. Then again, when my father was captured during the war, he had landed in a walnut tree in Italy (he was radio operator on a bomber; they got shot down and he had to bail out), which is what he and his family had on their land here in California. The universe circles a lot, and in many ways.


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## Starbeast (Aug 17, 2012)

Again I am amazed at how it all connects. God bless your father and you LMA.

*Heartbreak Ridge* (1986) Clint Eastwood, Everett McGill & Mario Van Peebles

A squad of trouble-making recruits become soldiers and enter the Grenada War.


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