# Eve Online - opinions?



## Venusian Broon (Jun 6, 2012)

Anyone playing the current incarnation? 

In your opinion is it turgid space accountancy about as interesting as doing the payroll excel sheet or a brilliant engrossing SF universe filled with excitment?

I used to play it a couple of years ago but quit at the time they introduced plantetary interaction, because:

1) it was taking forever to get enough enough dough to get even half-decent crud, thus...
2) ...was getting easily pwned and ganked, by veteran users with ships orders of magnitudes bigger, faster and more powerful. All usually when I was minding my own business as I rarely attempted PvP, and all the time in high-sec space as well! 

However now are the new expansions worth a new visit? Every so often I get a brief yearning to revisit - they are certainly bombarding my inbox with offers to rejoin.


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## James Coote (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm going to sign back up soon. I quit just under a year ago because it just eats your time once you start doing anything related to leading a corp. Once you do get out into 0.0 it does get easier to make Isk, but then you lose it quicker too as you spend more time pvping


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## Venusian Broon (Jun 23, 2012)

James!

I was beginning to lose hope. 

I mean, a mega-Space Opera MMORPG and no one on this SF/F website appears to know anything about it 

Keep us informed please, I'm really interested and have vague thoughts about returning - but would like a bit of intelligence first on the current state of the game - so big kudos if you are going to plunge back in and then can report back if it's better or worse.


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## Gramm838 (Aug 19, 2012)

I've been playing over 3 years now, and yes, there have been a lot of changes. There was a mass player revolt in mid 2011 that made CCP rethink their strategy (they tried to introduce PtW stuff, and the game pretty much came to a standstill for a while due to player protests in game, until CCP retracted their plan) but some of the recent expansions ('Inferno' came out earlier this month) have been pretty good.

As for the game, its still a sandbox so its what you make of it; as long as you don't break the terms of the EULA you can do pretty much what you want, and its still  a risk v reward scenario.

BUT - and its a big but - there is a steep learning curve to be able to get the most out of the game and you need to have an idea of what/how you want to play the game, pretty early on.

You also need to be in a decent corporation to get help and advice, and it also helps to have more than one account to be able to run two characters as the same time.

I enjoy it mostly for the ability to blow up internet pixels while chatting on line to my alliance mates, for about 2-3 hours a day!


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## Dozmonic (Aug 23, 2012)

The problem I have with EVE is that as with any mmorpg, if I got playing I'd play it properly and have no time for writing


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## Venusian Broon (Aug 23, 2012)

Dozmonic said:


> The problem I have with EVE is that as with any mmorpg, if I got playing I'd play it properly and have no time for writing


 
To be honest this is my biggest concern also, far too many other projects on the go (and some biggies essential for the mortgage and bills of course!), so sucking up even a hour a day or so, that I'm sure EVE online will do easily, will be detrimental. And writing is going well.

Who knows, perhaps I may come into a fortune one day ...


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## Gramm838 (Aug 23, 2012)

Venusian Broon said:


> To be honest this is my biggest concern also, far too many other projects on the go (and some biggies essential for the mortgage and bills of course!), so sucking up even a hour a day or so, that I'm sure EVE online will do easily, will be detrimental. And writing is going well.
> 
> Who knows, perhaps I may come into a fortune one day ...



If you're going to play EVE in null-sec areas, you certainly can't do it as a casual player, nor with only one account!

However, if you like the EVE universe but don't want to put up with the time sink that is EVE, CCP are bringing out an FPS set on the planets of the EVE universe - its called Dust514, and it will be free to play on the PS3; its available as a beta test right now, and due for release within about 6 months I think.


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## Illusive (Aug 24, 2012)

I have been playing on and off for years and love it. I find that it's actually one of the few MMOs that I can play casually. I got into a very nice, small corp that shares blueprints and I can mine and build (tech 1 or 2 ships usually) or I can do some exploration, all in highsec. I'm not rich by any stretch, and stay out of null-sec almost totally (yeah, care bear), but I find that I can log in and chat and get a few things done before logging. I have two accounts, which makes mining/research/building easier, but if you get back into a corp, you can surely get help.

CCP does so much well, at least in EVE. I am wondering how Dust 514 will pan out (I made it into the closed beta), and I am pretty excited for the World of Darkness MMO that they are working on.


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## Colbey Frost (Sep 4, 2012)

This is one of those games I go back to, but it can never hold me. The goals in game are all too far away... I can't wait actual years to be able to do what i want... I've been destroyed by WoW.


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## Gramm838 (Sep 7, 2012)

Illusive said:


> CCP does so much well, at least in EVE. I am wondering how Dust 514 will pan out (I made it into the closed beta), and I am pretty excited for the World of Darkness MMO that they are working on.



World of Darkness? I suspect that by the time it comes out the vampire fad will have died, and anyway the prime vampire wannabees are probably less likely to want to put in the effort of playing a CCP game, if it is similar in any way (such as training times and so on) to EVE Online.

CCP should simply divert the resources being used for WoD back to EVE Online!

In any case - vampires - they can't come out in sunlight, right? So how come they CAN come out at night?


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## Illusive (Sep 28, 2012)

Gramm838 said:


> World of Darkness? I suspect that by the time it comes out the vampire fad will have died, and anyway the prime vampire wannabees are probably less likely to want to put in the effort of playing a CCP game, if it is similar in any way (such as training times and so on) to EVE Online.
> 
> CCP should simply divert the resources being used for WoD back to EVE Online!
> 
> In any case - vampires - they can't come out in sunlight, right? So how come they CAN come out at night?



WoD is perfect for them, actually. Eve is one of very few sustained subscription MMOs left (WoW is the only other one I can think of--at least in terms of profit-generating). They are successful because they listen to the players and they are not trying to do what EQ, WoW, Vangaurd, Aion, Rift, and almost every other game that tries to charge is doing.

WoD is a social tabletop game, meaning combat/gear is less important than the interaction/story. It's more like Eve than the 100 D&D MMO clones out there. That's not to say a game like D&D isn't or can't be social, but it has been the game design model for most of the fantasy MMOs, and the stats/gear/loot focus has become the core of end game raiding; thus, it has become the standard for mechanics and design.

WoD, as advertised by CCP, will have things like permadeath via political maneuvering--a commitment to the gameplay at the heart of White Wolf's original intentions. This is what I am most interested in. It's akin to what I like about Eve--a shift away from stats and gear to the interaction that should exist in a Massive Multiplayer game.

It might be a total failure. The near-death of Secret World and the rise of GW2 are evidence that MMO gamers have very little tolerance for anything really different right now.

We'll see.


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## James Coote (Dec 17, 2012)

Well I resubscribed (actually resubbed a while back). I'm going through waves of apathy towards it though. I'm in a big nullsec alliance (with one account!) but I know the time commitment needed to get the most out of it doesn't match with how I want to spend my time

I tend to log on for an hour, chat with people, and log off again without even undocking! This evening I went on a nullsec roam after dinner and a long day working, and after two hours of playing as a logistics (healer) frigate, which is mentally draining any time of the day, my brain was really quite frazzled. Worse, playing that role, I don't even get any kills :S

If anyone wants to link up in game, my username is "Spoon Thumb"


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## TheTomG (Dec 18, 2012)

I like EVE, I play it for a few months, then wander off for a year or more. I am not a typical EVE player though, I don't play games for intensity, I have enough of that in life - I am not looking for my game to be a job. So I miss out on 90% of what EVE is about and just play casual, heck, I used to use mining as a thing to do to pass the time while filling out my tax return (safe space, large mining ship, just sit there, mine til full, drop in space station, wash rinse repeat.)

World Of Darkness could be interesting - you have to take your character seriously with permadeath, no repeated respawn, respawn, respawn. What I hope it might do is put the RPG back in MMORPG, because there is almost no role playing to be found in these games anymore - everyone is focused on the mechanics, and grouping to overcome the mechanics of this boss, or exploit the mechanics of these chains of spells. There's nothing to do with story or character any more.

A man can dream, can't he?


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## nubins (Dec 20, 2012)

I played eve at launch for about 3 months and then dipped back in at various times since there.

There is a great atmosphere to the game, but it just lacks the compelling gameplay I personally want. Moving icons around a screen and clicking auto attack starts off entertaining as the loot rolls in, but then gets dull as the same loot keeps rolling in, the bank balance keeps going up but at no point do you feel competetive at pvp with those who spent years training and doing it. Meaning the loss of a battleship could set you back literally weeks of play time. 

You can get cheap pvp ship setups, but thats only if you are taking part in a fleet action where you being realtively crap doesnt hurt the outcome too much. The other major issue with the game is, especially if you want to pvp which I spent a few months doing over a summer .. put aside a minimum of 3 hours. You just cant do it in less time than that.


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## Warren_Paul (Dec 21, 2012)

I tried out Eve Online, but found the gameplay too limiting. I wanted much more freedom with combat and exploration, which it failed to offer me. 

I much preferred Earth & Beyond - which is back up and officially running now with a fan-made emulator, free to play - and suspect I'll prefer Infinity: Quest for Earth if they ever decide to finish making that game. They are doing Kickstarter for Infinity next year, so hopefully then we might actually see progress on the development.


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## nubins (Dec 21, 2012)

Umm Earth & Beyond does not offer anything like as much exploration as Eve Online. If it's the same E&B i remember, where you can fly around about 50 systems, within those systems you can fly around a set strip of space about 500 meters from top to bottom and it follows the "level" system of rpgs..., so you cant go and do anything useful in a new system until you have spent time grinding to level up your ship in the current one... it's basically WoW in space, with less charisma and even less to do.

If you are looking for space games ont he Horizon, then the Star Citizen kickstarter is where you should look. Most sucecssful kickstarter ever, in development by the game who made the Wing Commander and Privateer series. Full freedom, full newtonian physics, full ship model why dynamic reaction to damage and alterrations you make to it. It's what most people hoped Eve would be I think.


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## Warren_Paul (Dec 23, 2012)

What I meant by freedom of exploration is the movement. You're free to fly all over the sector by directly controlling the ship, whereas in Eve - or at least last time I played - you could only tell the ship to travel to navpoints. You couldn't just fly off exploring freely like in a proper space simulation game like Wing Commander.


I loved the Wing Commander/Privateer games. Chris Roberts is my hero, and if he is making another game, then sweet! Will have to go look it up. Wondered what happened to him after he left Origin and Digital Anvil flopped - that's what they get for being bought out by Microsoft.


EDIT:

It's only a tech demo and already Star Citzen looks amazing! Can't wait.


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## TheTomG (Dec 24, 2012)

Actually, you could fly around the star system if you like in EVE, just it takes a very very long time to get anywhere at sub-light speeds. Now, you may mean you don't have direct "up down left right" controls however, which is true, those are absent. Always does make you feel one step removed from being in on the thick of the action. I suspect this is because the sub-light speeds are very fast in relation to nearby objects, so without automatically "head toward that ship and orbit it at 25 km" there would be a whole lot of missing going on.

But it does make everything feel a little less immediate and a little distant emotionally, as it were.


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## Warren_Paul (Dec 24, 2012)

TheTomG said:


> Now, you may mean you don't have direct "up down left right" controls however, which is true, those are absent.



That's exactly what I meant. I like being able to freely control the ship as if I was the pilot.


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## James Coote (Dec 26, 2012)

It does take a big time/effort comittment to get properly into the multiplayer parts of eve. The big fleet battles, the politics, the drama, teamwork and sense of ownership in victory and defeat.

An immense investment, months or more often more like years.

However, I've never heard of another game where you consistently get hundreds or even thousands of players in the same battle, with meaningful and lasting consequences. And that's not half the game

Sounds like you guys have been just scrating at the surface


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## Warren_Paul (Dec 27, 2012)

James Coote said:


> However, I've never heard of another game where you consistently get hundreds or even thousands of players in the same battle, with meaningful and lasting consequences.



Never played Lineage/2? Massive multiplayer events with millions of people laying siege to castles.

What about World of Warcraft's patch day for Ahn'Quraj? Millions of players fighting off hordes of giant insects that are trying to escape the temple and lay ruin to the zone outside it, the battle ending with the fight being pushed back into the temple, giving players access to a whole new raid dungeon that would end up being one of their most interesting instances. What made it so great was the competition to be the first server to open the gates to AQ. It was so important that every major guild on the server pooled together their resources to get it done.

What about the launch day for Wrath of the Lich King? where undead hordes invaded the whole world and all the players on the server had to fight them back, before pushing the fight all the way back to the frozen throne, opening up a whole new bunch of zones and instances, where they eventually faced off against the Lich King himself.

What about Warhammer Online's city sieges? Every player on the server involved in laying siege to opposing faction's cities, taking them over, defeating the king and laying claim to the city as their own until the opposing faction could take it back.

What about Age of Conan's keep sieges? PvP battles where you take other guild's bases off them permanantly, or at least until they could take them back. Guild Wars 2 also does a similar thing with World vs World - although it resets afterawhile, but hundreds of people, if not thousands, are involved in taking the enemies castles/forts/supply camps from them with quite serious consequenses, not to mention buffs players get for the entire server based on how well they are doing in the PvP. 

What about Final Fantasy XIV's End of an Era battle? Where so many players turned up to see the destruction of the world and fight off the Garlean Empire, that the servers couldn't handle it.

What about the Lost Shores Event for Guild Wars 2? Over a weekend one of the major cities was attacked by crab-like monsters. The entire server full of players turned up in one zone to fight them off and protect the city. Then they took the battle back to the island where they came from, a never before seen location. Through the fight, outposts and camps were set up as part of the battles - the players escorting NPCs to the locations to help set them up - creating bridges along the way. All of these camps continue to remain as quest hubs now that the event is over. The event ended with the entire server fighting a 3-hr long battle against the boss crab from one end of the island to the other. Massive guns blew open holes in the hive walls and players swarmed in to put an end to the crabs once and for all by destroying the now open hive. That event had to be the most epic one I've ever been involved in, and I haven't even mentioned the quest storylines that were only available during that time and required heaps of people to contribute to. Something like this happens every month in GW2, with major ones like the Lost Shores happening every three months.


There are plenty of other cases where these sort of events happen. They aren't reserved for Eve Online alone. Even Earth and Beyond had open raids with hundreds of players involved.


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## nubins (Dec 27, 2012)

Eve Online does have a more open system than other games so the consequences of the stuff that happens to the players does make it a little unusual in MMO terms. It's much like ultima online in terms of real consequences for player death etc. Which is good and bad. Good for the hardcore dedicated player and terrible for the casual player. Thats the marmite style gameplay eve has. 

Planetside 2 has the most cinematic and mechanically sound experience for large battles - as its full twitch play, infantry, vehicles and aircraft and 2000 players per map. Other games mechanics tend to break down a little bit when truely large numbers of players get involved - even Eve has some pretty big lag issues with big fleet battles. I understand its better now than it used to be, but still far from perfect. Ultiamtely all good MMO games have their "epic moments", they are just different from others.


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## Warren_Paul (Dec 27, 2012)

I think every MMO has lag issues around large amounts of players. Guild Wars 2 certainly had some major lag issues for the Lost Shores event.

Major death penalties is a system that has been argued over since the dawn of MMOs. Some people would like it to go as far as permanent death, wanting the game to be as real as it can, but I can't believe they'd really want to throw away months/years worth of work for the sake of realism. If somebody who managed to go say a whole year without dying suddenly dies, they are most likely going to quit the game. It isn't fun, and I can't understand why people still want major death penalties in their games - I haven't played a game like that since Final Fantasy XI Online where if you died it took xp off you. Terrible idea.

The outcome of such systems is needless stress, especially in a game like FFXI where you have to rely on other people to keep you alive in parties. If one of your party members sucks, you're going to have a terrible day. Of course it encourages people to play better, but half the time they were muppets that weren't capable of better.


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## Gramm838 (Feb 3, 2013)

There was a battle between two of the big EVE alliances last week in a system - 2800 people in the fight, a number of supercapitals/dreadnoughts/carriers lost - apparently one player lost 650bil ISK worth of stuff in the fight


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