# The Worst Way To Defeat An Enemy



## Sire Of Dragons (Feb 21, 2008)

I just watched this movie Flight Of The Dragons.

I was half enjoying until it came to the defeat of Ommadon. That has to be the most retarded way to defeat an enemy I ever saw. I understood the reasoning. It was the method of how it was carried out. After that I was just disappointed about the ending.

What is the worst method you have ever seen used to destroy the bad guy in a fantasy or sci-fi film? Was it the special effects or just poor imagination?

How would you have done it?


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## Sar (Apr 14, 2008)

The worst that I ever saw was in the movie "Signs".  I mean come on, the aliens are smart enough for space travel, but they decide to attack a world mostly made of water when water kills them?


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## Quokka (Apr 14, 2008)

I wasn't huge fan of _300_, it was ok but way over hyped imo. One of the scenes that bugged me was when they built this huge wall of corpses (ok defense from arrows, all good so far) and then they waited until ONE guy was standing in front of it... one!... and pushed the wall on top of him. Then they climb over the corpses to fight the enemy that is still standing on nice solid ground? Maybe not worthy of worst ever and I know it's not meant to be realistic but tactically that's gotta be questionable.


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## the smiling weirwood (Apr 14, 2008)

A Flight of Dragons was one of my favorite movies as a child!

But in answer to your question...

I know it wasn't a personified enemy, but the corruption of the male side of magic in The Wheel of Time was a very real and powerful enemy and yet they defeated it just by running it through a filter. It was kind of anti-climatic for such a huge event considering it was a fundamental change to their world and hardly anyone took note of it. One of the reasons I stopped reading WoT, apart from the lack of plot progression and deeper characterization after the third book.


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## Ice fyre (Apr 17, 2008)

Oh I dunno, I think its nothing compared to the might of the most advanced army in the known universe being beaten by ........Teddy Bears!

Oh please I have never been able to watch Return to jedi without cringing oh lord where was Darth Vader when you need him! 

I agree with signs it was the worst idea for a film ever, wouldnt the water vapour in the air kill em as well?


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## Rodders (Apr 10, 2009)

Wasn't the end of the Matrix a bit lame?


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## Vladd67 (Apr 21, 2009)

I think it was in *The Brides of Dracula* that there is the worst way I have seen of killing a vampire, using the shadow of a windmill, the sails of which cast a crosslike shadow on the count.


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## Cayal (Apr 22, 2009)

I don't think Signs is any different to the War of the Worlds ending.


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## Asmer20 (Apr 22, 2009)

Since the topic is up and I was curious, even if it's about my story and not a film.  Would it be ridiculous if a hero used music art and sports to defeat the enemy?


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## ManTimeForgot (Apr 22, 2009)

Not if the story was about a super hero named American Guy who had to face off against a villain named Quiz Show whose "super vulnerability" was anyone who knew more about a topic than him...

MTF


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## ratsy (Apr 22, 2009)

Asmer20 said:


> Since the topic is up and I was curious, even if it's about my story and not a film. Would it be ridiculous if a hero used music art and sports to defeat the enemy?


 

Well, it would be acceptable if the music was really awful singing or a two year old playing a violin...that would kill the bad guy.  Or doing really bad math...like yelling at the enemy "2+2= 5!!!!!" or "3X7= 42!!!".  And if that doesnt work maybe challenge them to a game of checkers or if things get heated...fooseball.


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## ktabic (Apr 22, 2009)

I do remember a old cartoon from my childhood where the hero finally defeated the dread evil overlord thing by shouting equations at him. Not even particularly complex ones. E=mc2 was about as hard as it got.


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## Team 2012 (Apr 22, 2009)

> I don't think Signs is any different to the War of the Worlds ending.



Yeah, but it goes further into stupidity.   God gave a kid asthma so he wouldn't die from alien gas... like all those other kids who God apparently didn't give a damn about.


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## The Ace (Apr 22, 2009)

Well yes, but when Wells wrote, 'War of the Worlds,' the ending was a spectacular twist.  Nobody saw it coming but it's perfectly plausible and made his point.


When you father a genre *then *you can criticise Wells.


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## ray gower (Apr 22, 2009)

Asmer20 said:


> Since the topic is up and I was curious, even if it's about my story and not a film.  Would it be ridiculous if a hero used music art and sports to defeat the enemy?


Well they did launch Slim Whitman against the enemy in Mars Attacks and a two year old scraping a violin would kill anybody, though I think dragging a cat down a blackboard would be more humane 

Overall, as very few people sing like Susan Boyle, nobody has found an excuse for dieing when trying to understand the Turner prize and the England cricket team haven't died of shame, I think you would have to come up with some really spectacular reasoning?


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## ratsy (Apr 22, 2009)

ktabic said:


> I do remember a old cartoon from my childhood where the hero finally defeated the dread evil overlord thing by shouting equations at him. Not even particularly complex ones. E=mc2 was about as hard as it got.


 

Isnt that what the guy did in Flight of Dragons?


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## Ursa major (Apr 23, 2009)

Cayal said:


> I don't think Signs is any different to the War of the Worlds ending.


 
Strictly speaking, the Martians in _The War of the Worlds _came across something both unexpected and deadly. In _Signs_, we have a space-faring species that lands on a world that's _mostly covered _in in a substance that's deadly to them.

And even we humans can detect water molecules from billions of light years away: BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Black hole spews water vapour


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## Urien (Apr 23, 2009)

Much as I love Babylon 5 the way Sheridan defeats the great old ones (the Shadows and the Vorlons), with a speech which ends with "Get the hell out of our galaxy", always struck me as one of the show's weaker moments.

One can only assume the shadows and Vorlons responded...

"Goodness... you're right, after millions of years we'd never thought of it that way. We'll take our advanced technology, our xenocidal wars and manipulation and be off then. Toodle hoo... and thanks for clearing up all that ancient philosophical confusion we had in your five minute speech."


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## Rodders (Apr 23, 2009)

Yeah. Sheridon was great wasn't he?


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## reiver33 (Apr 25, 2009)

I think this is the counterpoint to 'Why the bad guys can't shoot straight' (unless at a token minority minor-sub hero whose death serves to motivate the hero, etc.). 

I terms of the 'worst way' (including obvious flaws here) I think the original Death Star takes some beating - lets have an exhaust port that gives straight, direct access to the reactor core, with no fans, filters or other obstructions (health and safety issue!). Plus, even although you realise there is a risk, you do sweet FA about it 

(a) You! Take those explosives and blow a hole in that wall into the exhaust pipe, then jam those girders through the gap! Oh, you might not want to breath too deeply at that point.

or 

(b) Why can't we just blow the gas giant away rather than orbit it to get a shot at the moon? Are we paying by the planet or something?  

Then again, when you destroy the Imperial flagship and Death Star Mk.II the whole fleet seems to loose heart and fall apart. OK so the admiral is toast, but isn't that what vice-admirals are for?

How do you become a military advisor to an evil empire anyway?


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## Team 2012 (Apr 25, 2009)

> How do you become a military advisor to an evil empire anyway?



Graduates of the Evil Hegemony Academy get all the plum positions, despite all the rot of favoritism, nepotism, and overblown arrogance merely posing as true evil.


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## reiver33 (Apr 25, 2009)

Evil Hegemony Academy? Damn, I blew them out in favour of Strathclyde University 30-odd years ago. If only I'd known...


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## The Ace (Apr 25, 2009)

Yes, imagine going to Strathclyde.  (Via Veritas Vita, Gilmorehill Forever!)


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## zachariah (Apr 29, 2009)

The ending to _Flight of Dragons_ was brilliant. Original, surprising, a natural and convincing resolution from the characters and plot. The OP is deluded on this point.

Let's have a go at a _real_ sacred cow: LOTR! They threw his jewellery away! Ooooooh! So convincing!


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## Who's Wee Dug (Apr 29, 2009)

Sire Of Dragons said:


> I just watched this movie Flight Of The Dragons.
> 
> I was half enjoying until it came to the defeat of Ommadon. That has to be the most retarded way to defeat an enemy I ever saw. I understood the reasoning. It was the method of how it was carried out. After that I was just disappointed about the ending.
> 
> ...


Try reading the book, "The Dragon and the George" by Gordon R. Dickson


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## Paige Turner (May 19, 2009)

The Ace said:


> When you father a genre *then *you can criticise Wells.


Fine. My series of line-dancing-detective-in-post-apocalyptic-17th-century-Paris novels are well underway. They will be forever known as the beginning of Cowboy de Belle Epochalypse Noir.

Not that I particularly want to criticize Wells.


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## Rodders (May 19, 2009)

This is a title that i've got to read.


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## Paige Turner (May 19, 2009)

Rodders said:


> This is a title that i've got to read.


My heroine is also a retired air force pilot with a cybernetic hand, and has a cable-access cooking show; I didn't want to alienate any of my potential audience. (I thought about giving her Tourette's, but that just jeopardizes the PG-13 rating when we talk movie rights.)

As to the point of the thread, as much as I resented the computer-virus premise of Independence Day, I have to agree with Ice Fyre. Teddy Bears with stone-age technology defeat the Empire's Storm Troopers. (sigh) The Ewoks are the reason I keep getting arrested for throwing rocks at George Lucas' house. I'm pretty much on a first-name basis with most of the cops in Malibu.


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## Rodders (May 19, 2009)

With a premis for a book like that? I'm not surprised. LOL


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## Paige Turner (May 19, 2009)

Rodders said:


> With a premis for a book like that? I'm not surprised. LOL


Well, I never. Looks like you'll be in the standby line at the premiere.


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## Joel007 (May 21, 2009)

I'd have to say any time when Kirk, despite having a vast array of technological terrors at his whim, resorts to pugilism in order to subdue a villan.*

And why do asterisks keep appearing after my posts??


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## reiver33 (May 23, 2009)

If the Empire was so evil why didn't they enslave or just exterminate the Ewoks in the first place? If nothing else they would have made good target practice for bored troopers...

Then again I'd just shoot any captured 'hero' out of hand and forget using them as bait in a cunning plan.


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## Jimmy Magnusson (May 24, 2009)

The empire is only misunderstood.



Quokka said:


> I wasn't huge fan of _300_, it was ok but way over hyped imo. One of the scenes that bugged me was when they built this huge wall of corpses (ok defense from arrows, all good so far) and then they waited until ONE guy was standing in front of it... one!... and pushed the wall on top of him. Then they climb over the corpses to fight the enemy that is still standing on nice solid ground? Maybe not worthy of worst ever and I know it's not meant to be realistic but tactically that's gotta be questionable.



I don't think the Spartans in 300 were that big on tactics, to be honest.


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## Montero (Jun 14, 2009)

Asmer20 said:


> Since the topic is up and I was curious, even if it's about my story and not a film.  Would it be ridiculous if a hero used music art and sports to defeat the enemy?



Sports - javelin would work well.  They do stick in people - there was a judge at the Olympics the other year who was stuck with one.

Music  turns up a fair bit in fantasy books - there's Alan Dean Foster's guitar playing hero, Tanya Huff's Sing the Four Quarters series and several more I can't quite bring the author to mind well enough on to look them up.

Celtic bards were supposed to use sarcastic ballads and lampoon to make someone shrivel up and feel like dying.  There was a big fashion for smart-arse verse at the court of Charles II. Such as the fake epitaph for the King
"Here lies our Soveriegn Lord the King,
Whose word no man relies on
Who never said a foolish thing
Or ever did a wise one"

But seriously, all the singing in fantasy is based in magic.  OK in a book, but linking to the origin of the thread,  it probably wouldn't work too well on a film.  Unless of course you sang Teddy Bear's picnic and summoned the Ewoks.


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