# NASA Perseverance Rover: Exploring Mars



## mosaix (Jan 28, 2021)

Nasa's Perseverance rover is bearing down on Mars
					

The biggest, most sophisticated vehicle ever sent to land on another planet



					www.bbc.co.uk
				



_
*The US space agency's Perseverance rover is now just three weeks from arriving at Mars.*

The robot's current distance to the Red Planet is still some 4.5 million km (3 million miles), but that gap is closing at a rapid rate. The biggest, most sophisticated vehicle ever sent to land on another planet, the Nasa robot is being targeted at a near-equatorial crater called Jezero.

Touchdown is expected shortly before 2100 GMT on Thursday 18 February._

Another landing using the terrifying 'skycrane'.


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## .matthew. (Jan 28, 2021)

I see a promising future in salvaging all these probes one day


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## mosaix (Feb 13, 2021)

Some excellent photographs of Mars from the CaSSIS mission:









						CaSSIS mission: The camera capturing Mars' craters and canyons
					

The instrument takes images of dust storms, frost deposits and minerals on the Red Planet's surface.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




I especially like the 'sedimentary beds' photo.


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## mosaix (Feb 17, 2021)

Interesting link to a video simulation of tomorrow's landing.





__





						Mars 2020 Entry Descent Landing
					






					eyes.nasa.gov
				




Also I've seen reference to NASA showing live footage of the landing on their YouTube channel but I can't find any links.


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## Stephen Palmer (Feb 17, 2021)

Wishing it good luck tomorrow!


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## Wayne Mack (Feb 18, 2021)

To make the news even sweeter, Krispy Kreme launches Mars Doughnut Thursday in honor of NASA Perseverance Rover's Martian landing


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

mosaix said:


> Interesting link to a video simulation of tomorrow's landing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's just incredible. Thanks Mosaix. It actually deliberately accelerates in order to create the necessary drag/lift ratio before hitting the atmosphere at _twelve thousand _miles an hour, around seven minutes from touchdown. Astounding engineering! And it can all be lost in a microsecond failure.


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## Vertigo (Feb 18, 2021)

RJM Corbet said:


> That's just incredible. Thanks Mosaix. It actually deliberately accelerates in order to create the necessary drag/lift ratio before hitting the atmosphere at _twelve thousand _miles an hour, around seven minutes from touchdown. Astounding engineering! And it can all be lost in a microsecond failure.


I believe Apollo 11 entered the Earth's atmosphere at around twice that speed. But then Earth has rather more atmosphere to slow it down!


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> I believe Apollo 11 entered the Earth's atmosphere at around twice that speed. But then Earth has rather more atmosphere to slow it down!


What clever people we are! But so much can go wrong.
Touchdown around 8.30 pm UK time?


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## Vertigo (Feb 18, 2021)

RJM Corbet said:


> What clever people we are! But so much can go wrong.
> Touchdown 7.15 pm UK time


I thought it was tonight? Nasa website says 10 hours 36 minutes away.


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> I thought it was tonight? Nasa website says 10 hours 36 minutes away.


Yes. I picked that up and edited it, lol


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

mosaix said:


> I've seen reference to NASA showing live footage of the landing on their YouTube channel but I can't find any links.


NASA website You Tube Perseverance landing live:








						Watch Online: TV Schedule
					

TV schedule, upcoming program information about NASA's Mars Perseverance rover.




					mars.nasa.gov


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## mosaix (Feb 18, 2021)

RJM Corbet said:


> NASA website You Tube Perseverance landing live:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks @RJM Corbet 

About 20 minutes to go!


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## Robert Zwilling (Feb 18, 2021)

9,000 miles to go. How fast is it going?


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

Robert Zwilling said:


> 9,000 miles to go. How fast is it going?


Not sure. But they drop ballast a couple of minutes before hitting the atmosphere in order to accelerate up to the correct speed they need to hit fast enough to create enough drag to slow down ... weird ... if they hit too slow, they don't slow down enough, I think?


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## mosaix (Feb 18, 2021)

Robert Zwilling said:


> 9,000 miles to go. How fast is it going?



Hits the Martian atmosphere at 12,000 mph.


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

mosaix said:


> Thanks @RJM Corbet
> 
> About 20 minutes to go!


This NASA You Tube feed is rubbish so far, imo? It's kids NASA PR stuff, there's no information coming through about what's happening ...

Ok, getting better ... no comment about the masks ...
Hang in there ...


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## RJM Corbet (Feb 18, 2021)

Touchdown confirmed! It's just incredible!


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## mosaix (Feb 18, 2021)

Wow!


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## .matthew. (Feb 20, 2021)




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## Pyan (Feb 20, 2021)

Title of thread changed to bring it up-to-date.


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## dask (Feb 20, 2021)

Cool, cool, cool!


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## BigBadBob141 (Feb 21, 2021)

What is incredible to me is it has its own helicopter, flying in just one percent of our atmospheric pressure, to be honest I didn't think this was possible.
Still come to think of it parachutes are used in its descent so there is that, plus the helicopter is about the size of a drone, so who knows, one day there might be manned ones out there.
Not like the SF book where they used helicopters to explore the Moon!
As it has now landed safely let's hope for some stunning pictures!
P.S. Also the fact that it will leave behind soil samples to be picked up and returned to Earth by a future robot rover is also incredible!!!I
Also I find the so called skycrane method of landing pretty damned incredible as well, well done NASA all around for pulling this off, but that bouncy balloon one must have been fun to design!


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## Pyan (Feb 22, 2021)

Video from the actual landing...

Nasa reveals new video from Mars


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## .matthew. (Feb 22, 2021)

It's clearly faked. You can see the wires 

But on a more serious note, there's a 'game' called Rover Mechanic Simulator. It's just released a DLC for the Perseverance.


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## mosaix (Feb 22, 2021)

Stunning videos from the landing sequence...









						Nasa releases video of Perseverance rover landing on Mars
					

Space agency also reveals audio recorded by Perseverance on surface of red planet




					www.theguardian.com
				




Edit: Snap. Just seen post by @pyan


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## BigBadBob141 (Feb 23, 2021)

Fantastic, truly amazing footage, the amount of detail is a wonder to behold, thank you mosaix for sharing this with us, I wonder what Giovanni Schaiparelli, H.G. Wells and Percival Lowell would think of this, it would probably blow their minds!


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## Boneman (Feb 23, 2021)

BigBadBob141 said:


> Fantastic, truly amazing footage, the amount of detail is a wonder to behold, thank you mosaix for sharing this with us, I wonder what Giovanni Schaiparelli, H.G. Wells and Percival Lowell would think of this, it would probably blow their minds!


No one would have believed, in the first years of the 21st Century that Martian affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space....


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## mosaix (Feb 23, 2021)

'Hidden Message' in Mars rover parachute.









						'Dare mighty things': hidden message found on Nasa Mars rover parachute
					

Social media users say message is encoded in red-and-white pattern on parachute




					www.theguardian.com
				




I thought the markings were so it was possible to tell if the parachute was rotating.


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## Vertigo (Feb 24, 2021)

mosaix said:


> 'Hidden Message' in Mars rover parachute.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The need for asymmetric markings might have originally been for such a purpose but then changing them into a code seems like a simple (and neat) modification.


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 3, 2021)

More updates on new images from Perseverance:








						Mars: Nasa's Perseverance rover sends stunning images
					

Amazing images as Nasa's Perseverance rover lands on Mars and seeks signs of past microbial life.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Especially like this image for its clear cliff-face strata:


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## Ursa major (Mar 3, 2021)

Wasn't some of _Broadchurch_ filmed just to the right of that outcrop...?


​


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## .matthew. (Mar 4, 2021)

Breakdown of the landing


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 23, 2021)

And more lovely geology images with sedimentary layers:








						Image: Mont Mercou on Mars
					

Here are a few stunning views of the Curiosity Rover's current location, Mont Mercou in Gale Crater on Mars. This towering outcrop provides a great look at layered sedimentary rock structures. On Earth, it's common to find layered rock like the ones within this cliff face, especially where there...




					phys.org


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## Vertigo (Mar 23, 2021)

That one is from Curiosity, of course, I was looking at it just a couple of days ago being curious (see what I did there?  ) about how she was doing. Still going strong eight and a half years after landing! Impressive! 25 km travelled even after the worries about the early damage to one of its wheels. It may not seem like very far but it's on Mars!! Mars!!


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## Robert Zwilling (Mar 23, 2021)

Ingenuity, the 4 pound helicopter drone is scheduled to run some test flights starting around April 18, weather permitting. The preparation takes all day and then some, sounds like watching paint dry. It will fly using previously sent instructions. Then it only gets 4 flights, then gets packed away. Sounds like they aren't too keen on trying to land it. Maybe a docking set up would have been safer. Memories of Mr Musk's return landings don't inspire too much confidence in canned landings.
NASA reveals flight zone for historic helicopter flight on Mars


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## Vertigo (Mar 24, 2021)

Robert Zwilling said:


> Ingenuity, the 4 pound helicopter drone is scheduled to run some test flights starting around April 18, weather permitting. The preparation takes all day and then some, sounds like watching paint dry. It will fly using previously sent instructions. Then it only gets 4 flights, then gets packed away. Sounds like they aren't too keen on trying to land it. Maybe a docking set up would have been safer. Memories of Mr Musk's return landings don't inspire too much confidence in canned landings.
> NASA reveals flight zone for historic helicopter flight on Mars


I think they are perfectly happy landing it but I don't think it will even get packed away after those four flights. In the words of NASA:

 "The first flight is special — it’s by far the most important flight we plan to do,” Grip said, adding that a successful first flight will mean “*complete mission success*. " 

and 

"After that, Ingenuity’s test campaign will likely come to an end. *It’s a demo mission*, and Perseverance has other objectives to focus on..."

My highlighting. As I understand it, it really is just a proof of concept. Getting it to fly at all, completely autonomous remember, is really the sole objective and so proving that it is worth further developing the concept for future missions to any planets with atmosphere (Mars and Venus). It is super lightweight and something so inherently fragile simply surviving the pressures of launch and landing still able to function will be a major success on its own.


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## Saiyali (Mar 24, 2021)

On the night, my son and I watched the NASA webcast while occasionally stepping outside to look at Mars in the sky. It was a very clear night where we live and even though the distance was obviously far too great to see any detail (even with a telescope) somewhere on that orange dot, it was happening right as we looked .. I mean, the light arrived in our eyes probably slightly before NASA's footage got streamed to our computer, so


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## mosaix (Mar 24, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> I think they are perfectly happy landing it but I don't think it will even get packed away after those four flights. In the words of NASA:
> 
> "The first flight is special — it’s by far the most important flight we plan to do,” Grip said, adding that a successful first flight will mean “*complete mission success*. "
> 
> ...



Also, I would have thought that once it's out on the surface it will be exposed to anything the Martian climate can throw at it, even though the atmosphere is thin.


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## Vertigo (Mar 24, 2021)

mosaix said:


> Also, I would have thought that once it's out on the surface it will be exposed to anything the Martian climate can throw at it, even though the atmosphere is thin.


Yes, and, though I might be wrong, I don't think the rover has any mechanism to pick it up again. I suspect any such mechanism would have ended up weighing more than Ingenuity itself!


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## mosaix (Mar 24, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> Yes, and, though I might be wrong, I don't think the rover has any mechanism to pick it up again. I suspect any such mechanism would have ended up weighing more than Ingenuity itself!



There's a video somewhere on the NASA website that shows the test deploying the helicopter back at base. The thing is 'folded' somehow under the belly of Perseverance and the deployment looks quite complicated. I would imagine reversing the procedure would be quite complex.


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## Vertigo (Mar 24, 2021)

mosaix said:


> There's a video somewhere on the NASA website that shows the test deploying the helicopter back at base. The thing is 'folded' somehow under the belly of Perseverance and the deployment looks quite complicated. I would imagine reversing the procedure would be quite complex.


Yes that's exactly right:


> Dropping Ingenuity off in its flight zone is “a very prescribed and meticulous process,” said Farah Alibay, who leads Ingenuity’s integration with Perseverance. Ingenuity will need to be flipped from its current horizontal position on the rover to a vertical position before touching the ground, which will take “multiple days,” she said. “The most stressful day, at least for me, is gonna be that last day while we finally separate the helicopter and drop Ingenuity on the ground.”


Worth noting that "*drop *Ingenuity on the ground" which indicates to me that it doesn't lower it and so doesn't have the ability to pick it up. And even after that they must spend around 25 hours moving the rover "about 330 feet" away before doing the test flight. (Interesting distance that. Shows that whilst NASA communicate to their [largely] American audience in feet they are actually [sensibly] doing stuff themselves in metric ie. 100m away!!!)

Edited to add: I've just checked and the video demonstrating the 'delivery system' is at 5:11 on this video NASA Mars Helicopter Ingenuity Media Reel | Mars Video and at the end you can see it being dropped. Looking at this I can see no way it will get picked up again.


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## .matthew. (Mar 24, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> I suspect any such mechanism would have ended up weighing more than Ingenuity itself!


Telescopic stick + Magnet = Profit?


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## Vertigo (Mar 24, 2021)

.matthew. said:


> Telescopic stick + Magnet = Profit?


Much more than that needed (not sure where profit comes in on a project like this though); the telescopic stick would have to be powered, I doubt a magnet would work as there is probably very little, if any, magnetic material on the helicopter and certainly not on its top where the blades are which I expect are some sort of carbon fibre. Once picked up it would have to be folded away otherwise it would catch on rocks whilst the rover is driving and really it would need its protective cover to be replaced for that also. All of this would require more weight and every gramme is critical on a mission like this. Watch that video to see how it is carried prior to deployment.


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## .matthew. (Mar 24, 2021)

It was a joke 

But at the same time the weight issue only really comes into play on the way out of our atmosphere so there's little reason they couldn't send multiple subassemblies and bolt them together outside the ISS or something


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## Vertigo (Mar 24, 2021)

.matthew. said:


> It was a joke
> 
> But at the same time the weight issue only really comes into play on the way out of our atmosphere so there's little reason they couldn't send multiple subassemblies and bolt them together outside the ISS or something


Not entirely true, it comes very much into play, possibly even more importantly, on the landing and getting its speed down. And I'm not sure anywhere in space is yet geared up for doing such assembly. The bottom line is that this has been done on the cheap (relatively of course) as a proof of concept. If successful they will, I'm sure, do something much more sophisticated. I suspect one of the problems is that it can probably only receive and send instructions when close to the Rover as I doubt it has any radio capability over significant distances. Weight again.


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## Robert Zwilling (Mar 24, 2021)

The batteries last 90 seconds, takes about a day to recharge. That's a big problem. Where it lands is critical, it has to land in a flat area where it can take off again. Sounds more like a forerunner to the pterosaurs. The shell and wings are Martian weather resistant, made of lightweight composite material, like an insect. I wonder how long it will be before they will be able to land on a perch and fold up the wings to fit inside some kind of protective carrier. One big problem is a bad landing where the helicopter drone gets tangled up in an antenna or other sensing mechanism. Probably have to set up a base where a fleet of them could be stored. At the end of the day, air power is superior to land and sea power. A communications satellite or a network of them, orbiting Mars, could solve the problem of staying in communication.


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## .matthew. (Apr 7, 2021)

NASA’s Tiny Helicopter Snaps Its First Color Photo on Mars


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## Vertigo (Apr 7, 2021)

.matthew. said:


> NASA’s Tiny Helicopter Snaps Its First Color Photo on Mars


Ah I'd completely forgotten that Ingenuities deployment was coming up! Great news that all is going well so far!


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## Vertigo (Apr 9, 2021)

Ingenuity first flight attempt on Sunday!!!!!!! 








						NASA's Mars Helicopter to Make First Flight Attempt – NASA Mars Exploration
					

The small rotorcraft’s “Wright brothers moment” is two Mars days away.




					mars.nasa.gov


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 12, 2021)

Unfortunately, delayed:









						NASA delays Mars copter flight for tech check
					

NASA has delayed by at least several days the first flight of its mini-helicopter on Mars after a possible tech issue emerged while testing its rotors, the US space agency said Saturday.




					phys.org


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## Vertigo (Apr 12, 2021)

Brian G Turner said:


> Unfortunately, delayed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nail biting time...


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## Parson (Apr 12, 2021)

It always amazes me how far in front of what I think is "really" possible the razor edge of technology really is. Landing a rover on Mars with the real possibility of a "helicopter" still fit for flying boggles my mind. I would count it a success even if the technical glitches prove too much to handle.

---

Also, who would have thought any kind of roving and flying would be possible with the speed of light delay? Not me. --- I'm probably too anxious to get going to settle for a few meters a day progress.


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## Vertigo (Apr 13, 2021)

Parson said:


> It always amazes me how far in front of what I think is "really" possible the razor edge of technology really is. Landing a rover on Mars with the real possibility of a "helicopter" still fit for flying boggles my mind. I would count it a success even if the technical glitches prove too much to handle.
> 
> ---
> 
> Also, who would have thought any kind of roving and flying would be possible with the speed of light delay? Not me. --- I'm probably too anxious to get going to settle for a few meters a day progress.


Agree that just getting it there in one piece is amazing and if you read the NASA pages that is also considered a success in its own right. Then there's the issue of flying a helicopter in such a thin atmosphere. I'm amazed they have managed that one. We can't fly helicopters as high as our highest mountains due to the thin air. Regarding the control with the transmission delay you are absolutely right about it being impossible to control in real time, it is also equally impossible to 'drive' the rover in real time. So in both cases they must tell them precisely what they are to do - complete flight/drive plan - and then they have to figure the rest out for themselves. Quite remarkable really!


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## BigBadBob141 (Apr 14, 2021)

The speed of light delays of fifteen minutes plus mean that both the rover and copter have to be self autonomous.
NASA tells the vehicle where to go and it uses its brain and programming to accomplish that, hopefully avoiding obstacles along the way, obviously because of the time delays remote piloting is simply impossible, hence the autonomy.
Even on the Moon the signal there and back is roughly two point six seconds making direct remoting very difficult.


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## Vertigo (Apr 19, 2021)

Ingenuity has flown:




The actual flight data comes in at around 37 minutes in.


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 20, 2021)

And the short version.


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## Vertigo (Apr 20, 2021)

Brian G Turner said:


> And the short version.


Yeah, that one didn't appear on their website for quite a while. I'd guess the video took a little bit longer to transmit. But it's pretty wild; video of an aircraft flying on Mars. How cool is that? (And I really don't care if using cool makes me look old.... it is cool!!!).


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 20, 2021)

I *love* the idea that future missions could provide drone footage over various extraterrestrial landscapes.


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## Foxbat (Apr 20, 2021)

Vertigo said:


> (And I really don't care if using cool makes me look old.... it is cool!!!)


One might even say that it’s quite groovy


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## Parson (Apr 20, 2021)

Far out man!


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## Robert Zwilling (Apr 20, 2021)

The descent looked a bit fast. I thought maybe it was the frame speed but I found a text interview that explains everything really good. The descent was fast for 3 reasons. They don't know if flying close to the ground for a period of time is a good idea. Then there is the question of dust suddenly flying up that blocks out the optics for controlling the landing. They also want a landing that is a good positive contact, liker sticking it in a gymnasts landing, hence the little bounce at the end of the landing.

I found all I wanted to know in the text transcript of the Nasa press conference. Also has details about future flights and plans. A 50 lb helicopter is being discussed, that is about the max size that they can pack with the current rover plans. That would have around 10 lbs of science instruments on it. After that, a vehicle if included, it would be smaller, function as a support vehicle for a larger helicopter.

Nasa press conference transcript.


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## Phyrebrat (Apr 21, 2021)

That’s dope!


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## hitmouse (Apr 21, 2021)

I am just a bit disappointed it didn't shoot those spongy nerf darts as well.

Martin


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## Brian G Turner (Apr 22, 2021)

And now the rover is producing oxygen, which looks like another technology proof-of-concept for potential colonization:








						In first, Perseverance Mars rover makes oxygen on another planet
					

NASA's Perseverance rover keeps making history.




					phys.org


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## Foxbat (Apr 22, 2021)

Brian G Turner said:


> And now the rover is producing oxygen, which looks like another technology proof-of-concept for potential colonization:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. This is a process done in reverse in Advanced Gas Cooled Reactors. Some of the CO2 used for heat transfer breaks down to  Carbon Monoxide. The gas is treated by adding oxygen to reconvert back into CO2.


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## REBerg (Aug 20, 2021)

__ https://www.facebook.com/SocialJunkieTravel/photos/243315067435809


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## TheEndIsNigh (Aug 20, 2021)

What is interesting about the photo above is the lack of light polution and the clear view of the galaxy spiral. 



Don't think these additional lumps of debris you Earthlings keep chucking up here are going unoticed by the way. We'll be sending them back with *interest* in the coming years.


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## hitmouse (Aug 20, 2021)

TheEndIsNigh said:


> What is interesting about the photo above is the lack of light polution and the clear view of the galaxy spiral.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't think these additional lumps of debris you Earthlings keep chucking up here are going unoticed by the way. We'll be sending them back with *interest* in the coming years.


Plus a thin atmosphere compared to Earth.


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## Ursa major (Aug 20, 2021)

Best selfie I've ever seen.


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## paranoid marvin (Aug 21, 2021)

REBerg said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/SocialJunkieTravel/photos/243315067435809




That's fantastic, thanks for posting. I wonder if Earth is somewhere in that (night?) sky.


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## REBerg (Aug 21, 2021)

paranoid marvin said:


> That's fantastic, thanks for posting. I wonder if Earth is somewhere in that (night?) sky.


So do I.
If it's there, I lack the astronomical skill to find it. I assume it would have a blue tint.


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## Ursa major (Aug 21, 2021)

REBerg said:


> I assume it would have a blue tint.


Is that because Mother Earth is getting on a bit (4.54 billion years and counting) and so got her hair dyed...?


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