# The Watch - Discworld TV series - new



## Overread (Jan 17, 2020)

Soooo BBC America has apparently started releasing some photos from the sets and actors for their new series based on the Nightwatch from the Discworld stories






						First Look Photos: BBC America's 'The Watch' Starring Richard Dormer | Anglophenia | BBC America
					

BBC America has revealed first-look images from new series The Watch. Comprised of eight episodes, The Watch began filming in Cape Town, Sou



					www.bbcamerica.com
				





I can only assume that in creating their adaptation they somewhat failed to read the actual books  
Instead of a fantasy world advancing toward a steam powered industrial era I'm more thinking they've bypassed that and its somehow set in the 80s or so. Because I'm seeing electric lighting, spraycan graffiti, electric fans, American style badges on bead chains and yeah....

I'm sure it might be fun to watch, but besides character names I can't help but feel that this will not be Discworld.


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## Montero (Jan 17, 2020)

I was at first excited, then...... yeah. Sam Vimes doesn't look entirely right. However, might still have the spirit even if they've played with the look. We'll have to see.....


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## Overread (Jan 17, 2020)

Yeah though seeing Carrot wearing a chain mail shirt which is open at the front kinda makes me worry about its possible spirit if its making really odd choices like that


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

No, no... just plain no.


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## Vladd67 (Jan 17, 2020)

No Colon? No Nobby? When did Cheery become non binary?


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## The Judge (Jan 17, 2020)

A female dwarf with a beard, lipstick and iron high-heeled boots presumably isn't woke enough.

I assumed the guy with the multi-coloured clothing was meant to be Nobby in his Peeled Nut clothing, but it could just as easily be Angua or Vetinari by the liberties they're taking.


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

The Judge said:


> A female dwarf with a beard, lipstick and iron high-heeled boots presumably isn't woke enough.
> 
> I assumed the guy with the multi-coloured clothing was meant to be Nobby in his Peeled Nut clothing, but it could just as easily be Angua or Vetinari by the liberties they're taking.


Nope, that's meant to be Cheery.


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## .matthew. (Jan 17, 2020)

Vladd67 said:


> No Colon? No Nobby? When did Cheery become non binary?



About the same time they decided that Sybil wasn't going to be a kind hearted valkyrie.

They replaced both 'ugly' characters with attractive actors. A female dwarf with that guy, and a fat woman with a size zero. The press release then justified it by saying it's a non binary actor and a black woman, like that disguises what they did.

Personally, I think this already ruins things. Cheery was the immigrant fighting her peoples traditional gender roles, a far more relevant commentary than the non binary discussion. Sybil's entire personality is based on being a dragon doting spinster who has finally found love, even if that love is a drunken policeman. You make the richest person in the city a supermodel half the age that she's supposed to be, and how does any plot from the books make sense for her?

Pratchett was the master of tackling big issues with comedy and humility, all without beating people on the head with them. From my perspective, the watch books were his magnum opus, showing the transformation of Ankh-Morpork through the people living there. To change that for cosmetic reasons and then to claim it's for diversity is a slap in the face.


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> About the same time they decided that Sybil wasn't going to be a kind hearted valkyrie.
> 
> They replaced both 'ugly' characters with attractive actors. A female dwarf with that guy, and a fat woman with a size zero. The press release then justified it by saying it's a non binary actor and a black woman, like that disguises what they did.
> 
> ...


Seconded.


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## nixie (Jan 17, 2020)

No... if I say I'm going to watch this someone please remind me it's only loosely based on the books or I'll end up hitting my head against a brick wall.


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## The Judge (Jan 17, 2020)

Luiglin said:


> Nope, that's meant to be Cheery.


He's a dwarf???!

So who is the tiny girl with the heavy eyeliner?  I thought that was Cheery -- she's short enough.  It's never meant to be Angua, surely.  Oh, good grief.  *considers writing to her MP about this*


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## .matthew. (Jan 17, 2020)

nixie said:


> No... if I say I'm going to watch this someone please remind me it's only loosely based on the books or I'll end up hitting my head against a brick wall.



After the surprisingly good job Sky did on the TV movies, I think they should have had it (or the BBC if they wanted a more drama version).


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## nixie (Jan 17, 2020)

We need a petition, these film and TV people are always taking liberties with our beloved books but it's a step too far messing around with Disc World's Watch


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## Overread (Jan 17, 2020)

Yeah the really tiny gal who looks like she's going to cry at any moment I think is meant to be Angua. 

Also I'm fairly sure I recall that Vetinari is female now as well. Which with Sybil looking like she does probably means a nice little love triangle between her Vims and Vetinari is probably going to happen. I mean I can't imagine why else they'd cast a male role with a female - esp as this isn't pantomime .

I think the best and only approach for any sane Discworld fan is to consider this "NOT" Discworld in any shape or form. In fact I don't even know why they want it to be Discworld aside from the free publicity they'll get as there's clearly no attempt at making it faithful.


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

The Judge said:


> He's a dwarf???!
> 
> So who is the tiny girl with the heavy eyeliner?  I thought that was Cheery -- she's short enough.  It's never meant to be Angua, surely.  Oh, good grief.  *considers writing to her MP about this*


Angua, who in this instance is short and Carrot's superior I believe.


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

I don't mind changes but the only link this seems to have to the books is the names of the characters.

Comes across as 'based on' if your squinting in the dark at a Guards! Guards! closed,  buried in a rabbit hole whilst in the middle of a snow storm heralding the oncoming ice age.


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## Elckerlyc (Jan 17, 2020)

The Judge said:


> So who is the tiny girl with the heavy eyeliner?  I thought that was Cheery -- she's short enough.  It's never meant to be Angua, surely.  Oh, good grief.  *considers writing to her MP about this*



No, that's supposed to be Angua.
The guy with multi-coulered clothing is Cheery.
Lord Vetinari is played by the actress who played Duckface.

This is going to be a disaster.


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## .matthew. (Jan 17, 2020)

Overread said:


> Also I'm fairly sure I recall that Vetinari is female now as well.



It's political correctness running amok. I mean technically have no problem with Vetinari as a woman as there's like zero sexuality involved in his role as a benevolent tyrant, but still struggle to imagine it.



Luiglin said:


> Angua, who in this instance is short and Carrot's superior I believe.



But... Carrot is supposed to be the driving force behind the watch, the idealist who inspires even the old coppers to acts of bravery. The one who even Vetinari struggles to understand


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## Luiglin (Jan 17, 2020)

Next, they'll be doing The Witches, with Granny Weatherwax played by Emilia Clarke, Nanny Ogg by Emma Watson and Magrat by Dame Judi Dench.

Actually, scratch that.

The Witches, starring Elijah Wood as Granny Weatherwax, Mackensie Crook as Nanny Ogg and William Shatner as Magrat.

Actually, I'd watch that


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## Overread (Jan 17, 2020)

I don't think its political correctness. It's a director and creative team who wanted to make a detective/police show set against a fantasy world in America with a confusing technological period. They just happened to swipe the Discworld title in order to get the producers to sign off on the budget in the hopes that the big name on the title would ensure a big audience. 

At least that's my impression when its clear that they've jumped so far from the source material that fan's can't even work out who is exactly meant to be who (and even when you do you're left with that puzzling - wait really? - response). It might be good within itself but it will never ever be Discworld.


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## The Judge (Jan 17, 2020)

*hits head against laptop in utter dismay*


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## The Big Peat (Jan 17, 2020)

I've known that they were diverging wildly from the source material for a bit but even so, seeing those pics hit me hard. I feel like someone invited me to the greatest BBQ joint on earth...

... and when I got there it was a greengrocers. "Try out fantastic new burger! It's an apple!" Except I like fruit and I don't know whether I'd even like this. Although let's be honest, I'm not going to try. I will make no bones about hoping it crashes and burns. If they wanted to do something riffing off the City Watch, fine, cool. But don't put the name on it unless you're going to show some faith. Don't mess with my emotional investment on this.

Also... I don't know how far I can go on criticising this without breaking forum rules, but the choices reek of social political agenda and what's more, in doing so have trampled upon characters who actually had some big things to say about the underrepresented already. How many Fantasy shows and dramas have a middle aged fat woman who has zero athletic ability and isn't a looker but is nevertheless a force to be reckoned with because she's brave, charming, smart, and above all kind? 

And this is as far as I can go without going full Malcolm Tucker turning it all the way up to 11.


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## Vince W (Jan 17, 2020)

Wuhhhh.


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## .matthew. (Jan 17, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> But don't put the name on it unless you're going to show some faith. Don't mess with my emotional investment on this.
> 
> How many Fantasy shows and dramas have a middle aged fat woman who has zero athletic ability and isn't a looker but is nevertheless a force to be reckoned with because she's brave, charming, smart, and above all kind?
> 
> And this is as far as I can go without going full Malcolm Tucker turning it all the way up to 11.



Author sells 80 million books and has one of the most loyal followings... ignore his source material completely... yea... okay...

Sybil is one of my favourite characters ever (the rest mostly reserved by Pratchett's many others). I loved the fact that she darned Vimes's socks because she heard that wives did that - then Vimes wore them even though she couldn't do it. He had the knack for giving every one of them their own souls. I don't gush about authors, but damn if he wasn't a genius.

I know what you mean though. I've had several quite irate rants about this every since it first started disappointing me.

Edit: And I can only really picture her with a frying pan (while Vimes carries the dragon like a sawn-off).


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## Vince W (Jan 17, 2020)

In all honesty, I don't understand why Rhianna Pratchett allowed BBC America to be the ones to adapt this. But I guess she didn't have the benefit of seeing the travesty they perpetrated on Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently yet.


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## Overread (Jan 17, 2020)

Vince W said:


> In all honesty, I don't understand why Rhianna Pratchett allowed BBC America to be the ones to adapt this. But I guess she didn't have the benefit of seeing the travesty they perpetrated on Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently yet.



Didn't she distance herself from the project at some stage? 
Chances are what we see now might be vastly different from what was proposed early on when contracts were signed. Many of the changes we see might well be little and often changes that quickly warped the source material. Actors who sign on who don't quite fit the role, but fit the budget and other tick boxes; sets that aren't quite up to scratch, but they are what they can afford; costume designs recycling old material etc....
That said for a divergence of this scale I'd say somewhere along the lines there had to be specific intent to change it and/or a simple lack of faith/respect for the source material. I'd also like to say it could also be a media culture in the American system. Which is not to say that the British media adaptations are any better for authenticity; but the American media system does seem to take exceptional liberties.


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## Vince W (Jan 18, 2020)

_Good Omens_ should be an example of what we can expect. _Good Omens_ is quintessentially a British story but was tarted up to appeal to an American audience. I hated Anathema Device in the adaptation. Terrible in every respect. Given that this is being done by BBC _America_ we shouldn't be surprised that they would make changes that reflect their cultural hegemony.


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## .matthew. (Jan 18, 2020)

Vince W said:


> In all honesty, I don't understand why Rhianna Pratchett allowed BBC America to be the ones to adapt this. But I guess she didn't have the benefit of seeing the travesty they perpetrated on Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently yet.



I have never understood why already rich creators sell off their works to be mauled like this. If you're a new author or whatever then yes, take the payday and be happy about it, you have zero bargaining power. Established and globally recognised names don't have that necessity though.

Perhaps even sadder if this deal was made after he passed or was incapacitated by alzheimer's disease. It's like spitting on his memory.


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## Vince W (Jan 18, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> Perhaps even sadder if this deal was made after he passed or was incapacitated by alzheimer's disease. It's like spitting on his memory.


Too right. Pratchett had the good sense to have his hard drive destroyed. I wish someone would do the same to this travesty in the works.


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## .matthew. (Jan 18, 2020)

Vince W said:


> Too right. Pratchett had the good sense to have his hard drive destroyed. I wish someone would do the same to this travesty in the works.



I loved that it was done by a steamroller, although it didn't sit right with me. They were big hard drives and I'm fairly sure I read somewhere he'd started working with a laptop years earlier that would have taken the smaller 2.5inch drives. Suppose they could have been from an external backup but they were awfully dusty for that.

Since I'm assuming his estate manager continued to manage the IP after his death (possibly leading to this watch fiasco), I wouldn't be surprised if it was purely ceremonial and the unfinished works are sat in a drawer somewhere.

Edit: But go on, call me paranoid


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## Pyan (Jan 18, 2020)

I'm afraid I don't watch adaptations any more. I gave up after the first series of _GoT_, ditto 2 episodes into _Good Omens_, I watched through the Peter Jackson _LotR_ once, the first part of his _Hobbit_ and didn't even bother with the other two, one episode of the TV series of the _Dresden Chronicles_: the list goes on. These days, if I see an announcement about a book/series that I know and love, I just lie down and wait for the urge to watch it goes away.

The problem as I see it is that adapters/directors/producers can't resist the idea that _they know better than the authors did_ about what people enjoy in a story. This is a good example - the _Discworld_ books have sold over 80 million copies - but the people responsible for this farrago think they can improve on TP. Really?

Faugh...


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 18, 2020)

Overread said:


> I don't think its political correctness. It's a director and creative team who wanted to make a detective/police show set against a fantasy world in America with a confusing technological period. They just happened to swipe the Discworld title in order to get the producers to sign off on the budget in the hopes that the big name on the title would ensure a big audience.



This. Totally.


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## Kerrybuchanan (Jan 18, 2020)

This has entirely ruined my day. I love the Watch series and this is just.... Words cannot express...


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## Elckerlyc (Jan 18, 2020)

But surely every serious Discworld fan would rather hide in a corner with a bucket over his head and his ears stuffed than watching this travesty? Excluding possible masochists who dare watch the first episode.
I doubt the rest of the world/viewers are interested in a series about a 'group of misfit cops in a fantasy world.'


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## The Judge (Jan 18, 2020)

Kerrybuchanan said:


> This has entirely ruined my day. I love the Watch series and this is just.... Words cannot express...


Yep, just how I felt.  I didn't know a series was even being contemplated, so to have hopes raised and them immediately see those images...  *hightails it to the drinks cupboard*


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## Narkalui (Jan 19, 2020)

I'm going to watch the first episode with the full expectation that it will be utterly $π¡+€. And then I'll probably cry while declaring some kind of fatwa on the people who've done this


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## Narkalui (Jan 19, 2020)

According to Wikipedia, Throat Dibbler is now also female


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## olive (Jan 19, 2020)




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## Vladd67 (Jan 19, 2020)

I’m going to pretend I haven’t seen this and that it doesn’t exist.


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## Pyan (Jan 19, 2020)

Overread said:


> Didn't she distance herself from the project at some stage?
> Chances are what we see now might be vastly different from what was proposed early on when contracts were signed. Many of the changes we see might well be little and often changes that quickly warped the source material. Actors who sign on who don't quite fit the role, but fit the budget and other tick boxes; sets that aren't quite up to scratch, but they are what they can afford; costume designs recycling old material etc....
> That said for a divergence of this scale I'd say somewhere along the lines there had to be specific intent to change it and/or a simple lack of faith/respect for the source material. I'd also like to say it could also be a media culture in the American system. Which is not to say that the British media adaptations are any better for authenticity; but the American media system does seem to take exceptional liberties.


Yes she did...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1172096652603248641
And apparently this is 'Inspired by the Discworld novels'. Not 'Based on...', and certainly not 'Adapted from...'  So that's all right then...


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## Vince W (Jan 19, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> According to Wikipedia, Throat Dibbler is now also female


Say that again. Slowly.


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## Vince W (Jan 19, 2020)

Vladd67 said:


> I’m going to pretend I haven’t seen this and that it doesn’t exist.


Wise and sage words.


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## Vertigo (Jan 19, 2020)

No!... Just No!

I can't see many Discworld fans liking this but then I wonder how many fans of the Game of Throne books are also fans of the TV series? I suspect this is not actually targeted at existing Discworld fans.


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## The Big Peat (Jan 19, 2020)

Vertigo said:


> No!... Just No!
> 
> I can't see many Discworld fans liking this but then I wonder how many fans of the Game of Throne books are also fans of the TV series? I suspect this is not actually targeted at existing Discworld fans.



Why use the name if not targeting the fans? I always got the impression that the reason pre-existing media gets used so heavily for TV and movies is because the people greenlighting it are relying on a pre-existing fanbase. 

Not to mention that a lot of people who'd like the idea are Discworld fans and would probably like this   if there was no Discworld links.


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## Vertigo (Jan 19, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> Why use the name if not targeting the fans? I always got the impression that the reason pre-existing media gets used so heavily for TV and movies is because the people greenlighting it are relying on a pre-existing fanbase.
> 
> Not to mention that a lot of people who'd like the idea are Discworld fans and would probably like this   if there was no Discworld links.


I think the renown of the Discworld goes far beyond the fans of the books. Most people I know have heard of both Terry Pratchett and Discworld even if they've not read many, or even any, of the books or even any books. Most of those self same people would probably watch the TV series to 'see what it's all about' because it's less effort than reading the books. I suspect many of the adaptations of very famous books are addressing that audience. I wonder what the statistics say regarding how many people who have watched the Lord of the Rings films have actually read the books?


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## olive (Jan 19, 2020)

Terry Pratchett is a writer whose books are translated into dozens of languages and sold tens of millions of copies around the world *without* *the aid of* *any* hype, movies, tv shows, or merchandise. I'd like to get a magic wand and remove those 'factors' and watch if, for example, Martin or Rowling could do the same in an alternative history just by their books and how long. So with all due respect to other 'best selling' authors or whatever, this situation is unlikely to be compared to any other.


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## Vertigo (Jan 19, 2020)

olive said:


> Terry Pratchett is a writer whose books are translated into dozens of languages and sold tens of millions of copies around the world *without* *the aid of* *any* hype, movies, tv shows, or merchandise. I'd like to get a magic wand and remove those 'factors' and watch if, for example, Martin or Rowling could do the same in an alternative history just by their books and how long. So with all due respect to other 'best selling' authors or whatever, this situation is unlikely to be compared to any other.


Hmm you might want to be a little careful there. There is a significant amount of Discworld merchandise including board, video, RPG and card games and figurines etc. there have been several TV adaptations and animated adaptations and it has (I believe) seen fewer translations than, for example, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia.

Don't get my wrong I love the books and prefer them to any of those examples, but lets not mythologise them.


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## The Big Peat (Jan 19, 2020)

Vertigo said:


> I think the renown of the Discworld goes far beyond the fans of the books. Most people I know have heard of both Terry Pratchett and Discworld even if they've not read many, or even any, of the books or even any books. Most of those self same people would probably watch the TV series to 'see what it's all about' because it's less effort than reading the books. I suspect many of the adaptations of very famous books are addressing that audience. I wonder what the statistics say regarding how many people who have watched the Lord of the Rings films have actually read the books?



The Colour of Magic got viewing figures of 1.5m. I think Sky One's average is about 2m. Good Omens got 1m on BBC2. I'm not sure those audiences suggest a huge amount of interest higher than those who love Discworld to begin with. Obviously to get big they need to reach outside that core, but they're going to need that core to be there and be enthusiastic and spread the word. I certainly don't think there's a big enough potential audience to just ignore Discworld fans.


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## olive (Jan 19, 2020)

Vertigo said:


> Hmm you might want to be a little careful there. There is a significant amount of Discworld merchandise including board, video, RPG and card games and figurines etc. there have been several TV adaptations and animated adaptations and it has (I believe) seen fewer translations than, for example, Harry Potter, The Lord of the Rings or the Chronicles of Narnia.
> 
> Don't get my wrong I love the books and prefer them to any of those examples, but lets not mythologise them.



Oh, I really don't think I am mythologizing anyone but I think you misunderstood my point. You also might be thinking from only the Western civilisation's point.

- Without the movies or the tv shows and the scale of media campaigns, Rowling and Martin wouldn't be able to reach their numbers. I love the Harry Potter universe, but this is a fact. (*E:* I avoided Martin, I don't want to offend anyone. It is not worth it.) As a result of big launches and media campaigns these books were picked up by huge publishing companies and followed by huge campaigns around the world.

-I'm sure there is no need to mention that these writers also made big in the social media era, and most importantly online book purchasing culture which is a very convenient medium.

This is not the way how Terry Pratchett books have gone around the world. It's a fandom that got bigger and bigger by people reading the books in places where people reached the internet technology in mid 90s and didn't even have a real social media till 2010. Before online purchase era was introduced Discworld was selling over here without any big companies. People don't read here where I live in general.

People set up amateur style publishing companies, projects to translate and publish his books in some places. Because there wasn't any place to publish them. The middle class kids who attended private high schools -who read the books in English- introduced people to Discworld. They are also the first translators. So it has grown.

Martin and Rowling were translated by big publishing companies, you could buy them everywhere. It was a big deal. Not Discworld. This situation is still pretty much the same.

-Apart from the Discworld Emporium and the dot-com, I don't know about any source dedicated Discworld merchandise which are pretty small compared to the others but then none of it is overall even comparable to the Harry Potter scale. You can buy HP or GOT merchandise everywhere.

-Those tv shows and animations are made on a small scale, separately made without any international hype. It doesn't even compare with Warner Bros productions or HBO tv shows. A mass of people didn't start to buy Discworld novels after watching them.

You'd be surprised how many Pratchett fans don't even know some of them to exist. Who recognise the shows by their names highly likely know; have read the books before.

According to wiki, "More than *80 million* Discworld books have been sold in *37* languages."

So yes, there is a huuuge difference between reaching tens of millions of copies and three dozen languages in 32 years without the aid of those monstrous mediums and the hypes they created and with them in 18 years. At least to me.

I am sick of everything being put in the same place. I'm sick of being expected to go with 'each to their own' to almost everything defined 'successful' because of the hype, fame or the money it makes because of 'oh look, people love it.' I am sick of movies and tv show production companies ****ting on every possible creative work, esp. anything in connection with Hollywood pretending to promote women's and lgtb+ groups and minority rights while in reality, they don't care about any of it even tiny little bit in their huge hypocrisy. This is why I was agitated in the upcoming Netflix Sandman series thread too. I am afraid something like this will happen to Sandman because although Gaiman is supposedly involved, what does that mean now? We don't know.

I'm upset right now because of the news. I tried not to write to this thread.


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## .matthew. (Jan 19, 2020)

I dislike how the heirs to Pratchett's IP have basically walked away from the project. That link to Rhianna's twitter or whatever pretty much says that most IP holders don't get a say on direction, but when they've sold 80 million copies and have the money to say no to a studio approaching you, there's no excuse to give up a damn thing. You just shake your head and give them the finger.


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## Overread (Jan 19, 2020)

.matthew. said:


> I dislike how the heirs to Pratchett's IP have basically walked away from the project. That link to Rhianna's twitter or whatever pretty much says that most IP holders don't get a say on direction, but when they've sold 80 million copies and have the money to say no to a studio approaching you, there's no excuse to give up a damn thing. You just shake your head and give them the finger.



Like I said earlier the project that gets proposed might well be very significantly changed by the time it gets to filming and airing. Even directors can be messed around - Serigo Leone had many of his films chopped up by the cinema group just to make the films shorter to fit into "idealised" time frames. The first western translated versions of the Ghibli films weren't just translated incorrectly, but even had parts chopped and moved around to change the story (its now rather famous that the second time Disney translated and western released them the studio sent Disney a sword with the phrase "no cuts" attached to it). 

And those are "finished" projects. 

I think the issue is that the studio has a contract that allows them to change things ,but also that at some level removes the original content controller from controlling the IP as much as they might otherwise like. I think its the reason we've some strong IP that has never gone to hollywood or TV because the company behind them doesn't want to lose such control. It's getting better, but there's still, esp in the USA I would say, not just an attitude but a culture of changing the core story to fit with the vision of others rather than the original creation.


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## tegeus-Cromis (Jan 19, 2020)

olive said:


> - Without the movies or the tv shows and the scale of media campaigns, Rowling and Martin wouldn't be able to reach their numbers. I love the Harry Potter universe, but this is a fact. (*E:* I avoided Martin, I don't want to offend anyone. It is not worth it.) As a result of big launches and media campaigns these books were picked up by huge publishing companies and followed by huge campaigns around the world.


To be fair, though, Harry Potter was selling huge numbers well before the movies started coming out.


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## .matthew. (Jan 19, 2020)

Overread said:


> Like I said earlier the project that gets proposed might well be very significantly changed by the time it gets to filming and airing.



Which is known to everyone, so it's up to already wealthy IP holders to hold out for extra rights and not just sign away the name and characters to a company who has no interest in protecting the franchise as a whole.


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## olive (Jan 19, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> To be fair, though, Harry Potter was selling huge numbers well before the movies started coming out.



I should think so. I was a pre-ordering reader myself. But over 500 million copies? That is more than half a billion. It's nearly 200 million more than the entire population of the USA and nearly the %75 of the population of continental Europe. Give it some time. Apparently it is going strong which is good, I'd like the young ones reading HP rather than something like twilight. But do we really think it could have even come close to half of that if not for the movies, the huge media campaigns in all these years? The publishing company that picked HP up over here is owned by the fifth biggest bank in the country. LOL How many people are there in the world who haven't heard about Harry Potter, know something about it even not interested in it any way?

On the other hand, there is a writer and a series of books, masses of people are not even aware they exist. A writer with unseen/unknown fandom(s) around the world exchanging his quotes, using them to describe their own conditions, society they live in at places he has never been promoted or even presented in the media. How is this not a huge difference? I am not being unfair. But I feel weird now. I have no idea why.


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## The Ace (Jan 20, 2020)

Anyone remember, "The Dark is Rising ?" Susan Cooper's brilliant novel reduced to Ian, "I'll drop my rousers and bend over for anyone who offers me money," McShane, and Christopher, "When I read the book - You must've been the only one involved in that project who did," Eccleston, fumbling around blindly ?

Susan Cooper was brought back from the verge of suicide by three generations of readers telling the film-makers exactly what they thought of this travesty, I think PTerry's fans should do the same, and make sure this abhomination never sees daylight.


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## Overread (Aug 11, 2020)

​​For those not keeping up left to right are:​Cheery - Angua- Lady Sybil - Vims - Detritus - Carrot​​Personally I rather like Detritus, he at least looks like he's attempting to be what he is in the books and I prefer his adaptation here to some of the BBC/sky attempts at a troll.​


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## Vladd67 (Aug 11, 2020)

Less said about Lady Sybil the better.


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## Pyan (Aug 11, 2020)

Not on _my_ screens...


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## CupofJoe (Aug 11, 2020)

Vimes looks okay [given that it should have been played by Bob Peck]. And Detritus looks good too.


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## Jo Zebedee (Aug 11, 2020)

If I watch it it won’t be in an expectation of seeing Discworld


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## Overread (Aug 11, 2020)

Jo Zebedee said:


> If I watch it it won’t be in an expectation of seeing Discworld



Same - the shame is the whole idea of a steam-punk crime drama I'm very eager to watch. I just dislike that they've shackled it to an IP that isn't really that at all. Then again it doesn't seem like the source material has been used for anything but a vague sense of character design and naming.


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## Pyan (Aug 11, 2020)

The good news is that BBC America has only the rights to the Watch series - and Rhianna Pratchett and Narrativia have promised 'absolutely faithful' adaptations of some of the other books.

Am I being vindictive if I'm hoping that the audience figures for 'The Watch' are so bad that the networks pull it after two episodes?


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## Vince W (Aug 11, 2020)

pyan said:


> The good news is that BBC America has only the rights to the Watch series - and Rhianna Pratchett and Narrativia have promised 'absolutely faithful' adaptations of some of the other books.
> 
> Am I being vindictive if I'm hoping that the audience figures for 'The Watch' are so bad that the networks pull it after two episodes?


I won't be watching this given the direction it seems to be taking. So fingers crossed, eh.


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## Narkalui (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm going to give it a chance but I don't have much (if any) hope


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## TheEndIsNigh (Aug 12, 2020)

Coming into the debate late but...

Let's give it a chance. Afterall, the previous adaptions of Discworld have tried, and flopped IMO.

Maybe this fresh look at the potential of the stories, whilst not attempting to faithfully reproduce the environment will work. If only because the budget can be spent concentrating on the plot/storyline and not the building of fantasmagorical sets.


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## The Big Peat (Aug 12, 2020)

pyan said:


> The good news is that BBC America has only the rights to the Watch series - and Rhianna Pratchett and Narrativia have promised 'absolutely faithful' adaptations of some of the other books.
> 
> Am I being vindictive if I'm hoping that the audience figures for 'The Watch' are so bad that the networks pull it after two episodes?



Maybe just a little 

But then I have thoughts in that direction too.

Bluntly, I find this immoral. Pratchett has been very clear only Rhianna should be allowed to continue Discworld. She clearly isn't happy with what's happening - my guess is that major changes to the idea happened post-contract - so this is against the author's wishes, and seems to be a cash grab where someone else uses his name to advertise their ideas. Legal, but not moral.

I wouldn't even mind if they'd created something new while wearing their influences incredibly blatantly. I don't care that The Matrix is clearly super-heavily based on The Invisibles which in turn has a super clear riff on Moorcock. That sort of theft is part and parcel of writing. This shouldn't be.


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## Overread (Aug 12, 2020)

pyan said:


> Am I being vindictive if I'm hoping that the audience figures for 'The Watch' are so bad that the networks pull it after two episodes?



I'm conflicted.
On the one hand this is NOT Discworld and the more studios get the message that bad adaptations lose them money and that more faithful ones generate money - the more chance we have of more adaptations in the future being better quality in terms of sticking to the source material.

On the other its labelled itself as "steam punk* and I really want that genre to do well. It's such an overlooked and yet rich genre. It's got buckets of potential both for very serious wordy and well structured dramas - all the way to huge armies of steam tanks blasting each other in a Rambo style act

*even though it doesn't seem to have any, you know, steam as yet....


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## TheEndIsNigh (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm more concerned about the BBC America thing.

Although I get that the investment arm of the BBC and not the TVL is probably funding the thing, surely it behoves the BBC to invest in productions here rather than there. Or is this some sneaky plan to hive the BBC off to an American corporate via the back stage door.


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## .matthew. (Aug 12, 2020)

And Cheery looks like an elf...

Edit: I also don't like how hard they've clearly tried to make them look 'cool'.


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## CupofJoe (Aug 12, 2020)

From what I know BBC America is wholly commercial and only [in theory] earns money for the BBC in the UK. 
A show like *The Watch* looks like it would be unaffordable unless it had a lot of external backers. I'd expect it to premier in the US and then be broadcast [in the same week] in the UK. If they didn't try to do things like that, we'd be back to watching shows with the production values of Red Dwarf [love the show but not the special effects - except the Scutters - Genius!].


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## Overread (Aug 12, 2020)

It seems fans are not the only ones who are, disgruntled 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292573726194704385
Must be worrying for the show producers for her to be saying such things publicly when the series has still got until next year to be released. If they don't manage it right it might get such a huge amount of hate against it that it collapses and they pull it before it even hits the screens. Though I'd wager they've enough invested now that any return would be more welcome than a straight cancellation. Though we might see them rein in the "Discworld" references in marketing.


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## TheEndIsNigh (Aug 12, 2020)

Looks a bit Blake's sevenish.

Where's the dragon?


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## The Big Peat (Aug 12, 2020)

This explains how it happened a little. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1292576778972782595


Also, if the show's producers are worried, maybe they shouldn't have done this.


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## Vince W (Oct 11, 2020)

A trailer has appeared.


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## The Judge (Oct 11, 2020)

Well, that was even worse than I'd expected, and my expectations were rock bottom.

Can we demand capital punishment for everyone involved?


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## CupofJoe (Oct 11, 2020)

The more I see of this, the less I'm looking forward to it.


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## Vince W (Oct 11, 2020)

The Judge said:


> Well, that was even worse than I'd expected, and my expectations were rock bottom.
> 
> Can we demand capital punishment for everyone involved?


Yes, that was pretty much my sentiment. I just thought people should be warned.


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## Vertigo (Oct 12, 2020)

The Judge said:


> Well, that was even worse than I'd expected, and my expectations were rock bottom.
> 
> Can we demand capital punishment for everyone involved?


I second @Vince W I couldn't have expressed it better myself. *Hangs head in disappointment*


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## Vince W (Oct 12, 2020)

Further trailers.


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## nixie (Oct 12, 2020)

Shudders, that is diabolical and not in a good way


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## ctg (Oct 12, 2020)

Thank you Vertigo. I'm going to skip over this series.


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## The Big Peat (Oct 12, 2020)

I'm very confused why people are spending so much time talking about something that doesn't exist. I vaguely recall there being talk of a Watch adaptation, but it disappeared... 

Also, apropos of nothing.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1314630960860803074


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## The Judge (Oct 12, 2020)

Well, that was a revelation.  I think there might have been a few words, perhaps a whole clause, in that last one that Terry Pratchett actually used in one of the Discworld books.


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## Vertigo (Oct 12, 2020)

It's probably no great loss to me, as someone who only gets Freesat with no online or on- anything additions, it will probably be a long time before it comes to my TV. Besides these days I watch almost no TV anyway. The occasional documentary or classical concert and that's about it.


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## Vladd67 (Oct 12, 2020)

I’m sticking by my statement in post #39


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## Narkalui (Oct 15, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> I'm going to watch the first episode with the full expectation that it will be utterly $π¡+€. And then I'll probably cry while declaring some kind of fatwa on the people who've done this


I could only watch the first trailer. Now I don't think I'll even be able to watch the first episode.


Grief


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## TheEndIsNigh (Oct 15, 2020)

Just looked at asome of the trailers above.

Now it's tricky judging a program by snippets but if you forget the words Pratchett and Discworld it might be worth a watch.


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