# ESA To Decide Between 3 Space Missions



## mosaix (Apr 2, 2012)

ESA are, this week, deciding which of three billion-Euro missions to launch in the 2020s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17586110

So which would you choose?


 *Juice* - a mission to Jupiter and the Galilean moons
 *Athena* - the biggest X-ray telescope ever built
 *NGO* - a trio of high-precision spacecraft to detect gravitational waves
At this stage I think I prefer the mission to Jupiter.


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## Vertigo (Apr 2, 2012)

Well the mission to Jupiter is certainly the more romantic of them. However the other two will probably further science much more in the long term. Difficult choice. It's like telling me to pick which limb I want to keep and having the rest chopped off. I can think of a few military budgets I'd like to redirect to this effort...

Jupiter - I would like to know what's beneath Ganymede's ice...
Athena - A telescope like that could tell us so much about what goes on in galactic centres, black holes...
NGO - That's so cool; measuring the gravitational waves produced by colliding galaxies.

They're all so interesting but if we can only have one I _think_ I'd swing in favour of the telescope. All told I think it can probably tells us more about the cosmos than the others.


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## Metryq (Apr 2, 2012)

I agree with you, Mosaix. Juice sounds like the most "down to Earth" mission that will provide data of the most immediate use. I can well imagine the serendipitous results of Athena, but NGO sounds too tenuous and abstract. The latter two projects will happen in time, but something from Juice could potentially push private corporations into space.


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## J-Sun (Apr 2, 2012)

I agree that:


Juice is the quickest, easiest, and likely what _will_ happen
Athena sounds really cool and is probably the one that "should" happen
NGO is the most out there and, so naturally, I diverge in thinking I actually want that one. Less likely to pay off as well as Athena but if it did - could be neat.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Apr 4, 2012)

A shame that America's space front has gone, I guess, but everything eventually falls. I would personally like to see Juice the most, simply because I prefer to see space exploration over simple orbital mechanics or gravitation. NGO wouldn't be too bad, but honestly, Athena? We had Hubble and it's supposed to get some form of replacement. Or was.


I wonder if the U.S. will ever be able to rebound back enough to get back into the game...?


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## Metryq (Apr 4, 2012)

Karn Maeshalanadae said:


> I wonder if the U.S. will ever be able to rebound back enough to get back into the game...?



I think it will, but through private corporations, like SpaceX.


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## Vertigo (Apr 4, 2012)

Karn Maeshalanadae said:


> A shame that America's space front has gone, I guess, but everything eventually falls. I would personally like to see Juice the most, simply because I prefer to see space exploration over simple orbital mechanics or gravitation. NGO wouldn't be too bad, but honestly, Athena? We had Hubble and it's supposed to get some form of replacement. Or was.
> 
> 
> I wonder if the U.S. will ever be able to rebound back enough to get back into the game...?


Don't forget Athena is an X-ray telescope which is a very different beast to Hubble.


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## Karn Maeshalanadae (Apr 4, 2012)

Vertigo said:


> Don't forget Athena is an X-ray telescope which is a very different beast to Hubble.



That's true but still, it's just my personal tastes that I prefer exploration over the other two.


Of course, whether or not we'll ever be able to colonize celestial bodies in the reasonably near future or not, I don't know....I think the moon would be our best shot.


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## Interference (Apr 4, 2012)

NGO might be of most immediate use and interest to us as we undergo climate change, pole reversals and an encroaching ice age (unless I misunderstand the science, which is entirely possible, if not probable).


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## Vertigo (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm curious as to why you think the  NGO has particular relevance to those factors Inter?


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## Interference (Apr 4, 2012)

Curiosity is an admirable scientific trait 

I probably have it all wrong, but has this to do with measuring gravitational variations on Earth and, if so, won't those data be of some help in predicting, or at least understanding, tectonic and magnetic field variations?


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## Vertigo (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't think that is the intent, although it may well be able to do so, I'm not sure. However the stated objectives are:



> It describes three satellites, separated by a distance of a million km, which will form a high-precision interferometer.
> 
> Lasers running between the "mothership" and two outlying daughter craft will measure the very fine changes in distance between free-falling blocks inside the spacecraft.
> 
> Disturbances in these length measurements would signal the arrival of gravitational energy emitted, for example, from the interaction of supermassive black holes at the centres of colliding galaxies. It's physics at the extreme.


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## Kamosis (Apr 6, 2012)

a trip to Jupiter seens great, but a new telescope seen to be a good choice that can unreveal big things ^^

Can't we cut the budget to other, less important, areas? Like education and health! XD


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## Vertigo (Apr 6, 2012)

My choice would be Defense. 

Now doesn't "defense budget" seem like a bit of a euphemism these days for "I want some money to go and beat up someone smaller than me"?


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## paranoid marvin (Apr 6, 2012)

Shouldn't we get our own planet in order before trying to go any further?


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## mosaix (Apr 6, 2012)

paranoid marvin said:


> Shouldn't we get our own planet in order before trying to go any further?



If we wait that long, we'll never go anywhere, PM.


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## Vertigo (Apr 6, 2012)

And there's also the risk, the way we are going, that it might be too late.


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## Metryq (Apr 6, 2012)

paranoid marvin said:


> Shouldn't *we* get our own planet in order before trying to go any further?



This assumes that all of humanity is united in one direction, which will _never_ happen, even if there were no wars, or whatever gauge you are using. (Consider the differences of opinion over a mere _three_ space missions.)

Sometimes there are also higher priorities. For example, if you put off replacing the burned out light outside your door and mowing the lawn until the inside of the house is "in order," some thug may decide the place looks like easy pickings, or a guest arriving for dinner one night will trip on the stairs.


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## paranoid marvin (Apr 6, 2012)

I'd say the more we explore outside of our world, the more likely we are to encounter something we can't handle - whichever way you want to take that statement. We cannot tolerate our own species most of the time, we certainly don't treat other species on our planet any better; how would we cope with an alien lieform? How would they react to us? I fear it would end up more 'Starship Troopers' than 'Close Encounters'. And what if we found something really big - like substantial proof that there was (or wasn't) a god(s)? How would we deal with that?

Unlike most other animals on our planet, we still haven't evolved past killing each other. We cannot live together on this world, how would the rest of the galaxy welcome us? If roles were reversed, would we want to encounter a race that was just as likely to kill us as shake our hand?

Personally , as a race, I don't believe we are mature enough to step beyond our own doorstep yet. Whether it's a case of stopping oppression , or simply feeding a starving child, I think we should look inward before we look out. 

And anyway, as far as exploration is concerned , there is so much undiscovered on our own rock. If we absolutely have to spend vast amounts of money on discovery, then why not explore our oceans - or even below that? I'm not talking 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth' or 'The Core' , but perhaps we could turn our eye to what is under the earth rather than above it.

The day may come when disaster (natural or man made) and it is no longer possible to dwell on the surface. Surely underwater cities are a much more feasible solution than spacestations or colonies on other planets?


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## Metryq (Apr 7, 2012)

paranoid marvin said:


> we still haven't *evolved* past killing each other.



So, all other creatures are fluffy and cuddly and approachable? And our behavior is "unnatural" just because we're humans? Evolution does not produce ultimate, "best" solutions, it produces only competitive solutions.



> Whether it's a case of stopping oppression , or simply feeding a starving child, I think we should look inward before we look out.



There's that liberal "we" again. Humans are not omnipotent, yet somehow it is our obligation to right every wrong on the planet—especially when there is no agreement over what is right and what is wrong. Perhaps _you're_ oppressing those who wish to explore space.



> If we absolutely have to spend vast amounts of money on discovery, then why not explore our oceans - or even below that?



Now wait a minute—is it better for wanton savages like us to be corrupting and destroying unexplored habitats where life is known to exist, or poking around desolate rocks that appear to be completely lifeless?



> The day may come when disaster (natural or man made) and it is no longer possible to dwell on the surface. Surely underwater cities are a much more feasible solution than spacestations or colonies on other planets?



And if the disaster affects more than just the surface? What do you mean by "solution"? Do you think extra-terrestrial exploration is about moving the entire populace to somewhere else?


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## mosaix (Apr 22, 2012)

The infighting's started...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17773383


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## J-Sun (Jun 15, 2012)

Old news but I just caught it and it doesn't seem to have hit this thread yet - I wasn't surprised that mosaix's link said it was "in pole position" but it's apparently final. ESA approves JUICE. Better than nothing, anyway.


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## Vertigo (Jun 15, 2012)

Well as you say not too surprising. Lets face it they are all pretty exciting ideas shame one is all we can afford.


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