# Radio stuff



## Kylara (Jan 28, 2015)

Right, this is a tech strain I know little about - I need some radios and headsets. Found a great radio, but I need the headsets - headsets are more important and are difficult.

So, I need a behind the head headset (one ear only) which are not in ear pieces and a boom mike with good noise cancelling. It must be VOX

Why do I need this? I teach riding - lots of big areas and people going all over the place so I can't always be heard and I can't hear the riders. So a VOX headset that fits behind/under the riding hat and is VOX and good at reducing extraneous noise is a must. Can't be PTT as no free hands!

Would be mainly used with 2 radios with hope to add another radio in future (so one for me, one for client, then one each for two clients).

I have been looking at stuff but struggling to find anything. I thought someone on our fantastic forum might have a little more knowledge about this than me @Ray McCarthy maybe? Just getting all frustrated about headsets now! I know there are some out there that do this as I have seen them, but no idea what they were!

Radio I am leaning towards is this TTI TX-1446P.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jan 28, 2015)

Vox is a function of the radio, not the headset! It's only for old CBs or *very* old radios that a microphone takes a battery and has built in VOX to operate the PTT line.

Most cheap PMR446 can do this (even £30 per pair models). Any other kind of radio except 868 SDR (too low power) and portable CB (aerial too big) needs a licence.

The headset likely then wants to be a bone conduction ear piece. Mic can be a throat mic (lowest noise) or boom. Noise cancelling booms are not very good at cancelling noise, especially wind.

The headsets will cost more than the radios.

Look though at headsets and kits for motorcycles. You CAN use "in ear" earphones if there is a box that headset + mic plugs into that has a knob for mic volume to ear. Again Motorcycle combo intercom/radio adaptors have this feature. Then the box plugs into radio.

PMR446 are all essentially inter-compatible and near identical spec. The only main difference between a £30 a pair and £300 a pair is ability to drop it in a bucket of water. Lots of the £30 a pair models are actually rain proof.

Virtually every PMR446 I have checked has VOX, even the Lidl ones, which are OK. Very handy top of wall/roof adjusting 1.2m satellite dish  or aerial.

There is nothing wrong with the TTI TX-1446P  except it's x4 overpriced! It's just an ordinary PMR446, no different to the £30 a pair models. Almost all PMR446 take a headset. You can get the plugs changed on a headset too (costs me about £1 as I can solder)

The last time Lidl had cheap less than £30 a pair PMR that even included the charger.
Models that take AA are best as the NiMH are cheap and you can cheaply carry spares. An emergency pair of Alkaline AA have over 5 years shelf life. Eneloop NiMH have self discharge in about 6 months. Typical high capacity 2500mAH to 3000mAH NiMH self discharge in a week compared with 4 to 5 weeks for 1800mAH NiMH (AA NiCd were only 500mAH).
Alkaline AA will give best standby run time in use (maybe 50% more than NiMH) but for continuous conversations the 1800mA NiMH last slightly longer.
Lithium packs are too expensive, often only 1 year life and become unobtainable. Don't get expensive radio with Lithium rechargeable.

I've been working with 2 way radio since about 1967. Amateur Licensed in 1972 and worked as a BBC Communications Engineer. Last job involved designing and specifying two way Data radio systems.

Note the number of channels is misleading on almost all adverts. ALL PMR446 have exactly 8 channels. The quoted channels are "selective calling" to cancel squelch. I use mine with selcall off as it's easier to pick a really clear channel or find the other person if you forgot which channel it is. Only 8 to try.


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 28, 2015)

They do the £30 PMR radios from here, and there's a range of headsets, too:
http://www.pmctelecom.co.uk/categories/two-way-radios/31

Easier for me than trying to sort through Amazon.


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## Kylara (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks Ray. Was getting that particular radio at a discount for a pair  main reason I am leaning towards that is the vox adjustability and range. (also some other stuff - bearing in mind where it would be used and stuff that one came out as a good bet that covered most bases that I need, also seems fairly rugged!)

I can't have in ear stuff because it just doesn't work when you are riding a horse! Just doesn't work well and I would need an ear piece for every client I have and hope they don't fall out! I would much rather get the behind the head single ear headphone and boom mic set up - easy to fit and works with a riding helmet  Trying to keep it as lightweight as possible really, so just headset and radio to clip onto the rider without having too much stuff to worry about.

I may know a little more than let on about the actual radio stuff (but not much!) and happy to stick with the TTI (good range, channels, vox levels etc), just failing at the headset stuff. I meant VOX headset rather than PTT or at least PTT is switchoffable so that it runs on VOX, as again, can't PTT when riding a horse or driving a carriage 

I hadn't thought of bone mic though...but not sure about the ear/headphone bit on those either. Bone mic would definitely get around the wind noise, but will have to see how they fit to check they would work for riders etc (safety aspect really as I think they attach round the throat?). You got any suggestions for where to look for more info on those? Or any good brands?

Eugh this is why I dislike the whole radio stuff - perfect set up in my head - sooooo confusing to research and find stuff that is decent!


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## Ray McCarthy (Jan 28, 2015)

The Mitex might do. Probably wrong plugs. Just ignore the PTT switches and enable VOX on the radio
http://www.pmctelecom.co.uk/categories/mitex-accessories/244
I would check eBay Hong Kong, Tiawan, Thailand and China sellers.


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## Ray McCarthy (Jan 28, 2015)

Kylara said:


> vox adjustability and range


They are all the same range outdoors and all the same number of channels, anything different is marketing.
By law to get CE approval they have to have a pretty similar spec.

Any with vox, the vox level is adjustable. I've not seen any without it.

Bone ear piece. Likely an acoustic coupled earphone in-ear is fine with riding helmet.
BUT
Throat mic.

I've used full face Motorcycle helmets with £2 in-ear phones.

Long time since I was on a horse.  I think I only got instruction when on the ground or stopped. Easier than motorbike, but initially sore on thighs  Horses / Ponies  have cruise and autopilot modes and know the way home.

Coincidence I was just thinking about riding yesterday? We have loads of horsey places in this part of Limerick.


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## Kylara (Jan 28, 2015)

Right. Hah. I am really rather stupid - just re-read your post and saw the added bit at the bottom, which is very interesting...Running the more techy bits past the OH to translate for my sadly not as techy as I would like brain.

My research skills are seriously terrible outside of literature and coupled with my obvious lack of knowledge of radios I am flailing like a flaily thing. You obviously are the right person to be chatting to! So change the Q a little bit  if you don't mind?

Still headset bits, but with the interesting only 8 channels thing, if I splurge out what I need it for and price limit per radio, do you think you could help find a radio then? As the sneaky marketing people have obviously found their mark in me!

Most of the people I teach are taught outside, so windy, large areas (think minimum schooling size is 40m by 20m and only one client has that small, and max size is about 5 acres + at cross country schooling sessions). I was hoping to have two way radio sets so I can talk to them and they can talk to me without any difficulties of hearing so no-one has to shout (mainly me as my voice goes after a few hours!). People doing all sorts, so driving carriages, riding dressage, show jumping, cross country. So needs to have a mid(?) range, no more than 5k I'd guess. Want a few channels just in case some are taken up (I know a few places I teach will have channels being used). Needs to be VOX as obviously PTT can't happen when riding or driving. Needs to be rugged radio in case of dropping or people falling off and easily attachable/pocket fitting. Waterproof radio would be a bonus  I like having settings options for stuff rather than one setting fits all. Max £100 a radio

Headset needs to be behind the head one ear headphone bit as I have found in ear ones fall out a lot and would be hassley to change buds for every single client, so a headphone piece would just be easier and would stay on/sit better with helmet. Mic is going to need to be decent and have a good level of wind resistance as horses go fast. I thought boom mic would be good, maybe with extra furry on the mic? Only issue I can see with throat mic is that they wrap around neck which isn't the safest thing on a horse...unless there is a quick release function (purely because my insurers would go nuts if something did happen, and don't want to buy it and then have them yell at me!). In my head this sort of set up works like a pro, but no idea if it is possible and this has turned into a wall of text! As said before, my research skills are shocking outside of literature and I know practically nothing about any of this. Other than how to actually use a radio lol! Not a clue how expensive a headset that fulfils all of that might be, but happy to spend up to another £100 at worse, maybe more if the set is the most incredible set ever made 

Also horses are great fun  you should totally go and have a session or a trail ride  I'm hoping a radio + headset setup will save my voice a bit and save me from repeating myself as no-one can hear me over the noise of carriage or weather!

Thanks for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it


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## Ray McCarthy (Jan 28, 2015)

Kylara said:


> no more than 5k


ALL PMR446 have same range. ALL have EXACTLY 8 real channels. Any higher number are just selective calling, which fails if real channel is in use.

*Range*
In city can be 0.5km max. Less is common
On flat ground maybe 2km. Exceptionally 5km or even  8km, if the ground is very wet and free of trees.
On two hilltops, maybe 30km!
Note the power is the same on them all, . The power is the main factor for Radio range unless you have a huge directional aerial (like roof top TV). On open countryside you need x4 power to double the range.  (At the UHF of a PMR446  anyway). The ERP MUST not exceed 0.5W. That's the combination of electronics and aerial design. So models with larger aerials just have slightly better battery life. The difference in aerial size makes little difference to range anyway, it's more marketing of "pro" models. It has a slight advantage. But a twice as good aerial (none are even as much as that) is only 1.4x receiver range. In practice the deference might be 2km vs 2.2km, not worth spending x10 as much money.



Kylara said:


> I can see with throat mic is that they wrap around neck which isn't the safest thing on a horse...unless there is a quick release function


Usually velcro. The radio is on your jacket. If you fall off etc the throat mic isn't  a problem. A ribbon bow on neck is more dangerous.

Foam on mic boom has little effect against wind unless its enormous. It's more to slightly reduce breathing noise.

*Earpiece*
I forgot about hygiene. You need then the expensive bone conduction earpieces. You can feel a knob of bone just behind your ear lobe. Press an earpiece against it and you will hear that's where the behind the ear thing has to press.

Mortality of cables is going to be a problem. 1926 to 1960s headphones had thread with copper tinsel. This was woven into cord. They last forever.  My son's headphones last him about a month. Even fancy £80 headphones use 5c easily snapped wire with no cord reinforcement. 


There are other solutions if you only need ONE WAY communications.


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## Kylara (Jan 28, 2015)

Now that is really interesting Ray thanks! Really helpful too 

Did not know throat mic was velco - that sounds great  thought it was a clip or something less breakable lol  I'll have to look at those. Can you couple it with a headphone behind the head bit? Or are they only with in ear ones? But mic was big problem so fingers crossed that helps with that!

Radio knowledge is fascinating, if hard to get head around! (like most things I guess!) I'll have to take another look at radios with all that in mind. 2k is probably fine if I'm honest! I should hope that I don't lose a rider that far away!

You are a godsend in this time of frustration at lack of knowledge  I think I have learned more about radio things in these posts than I have researching them!  Especially that 8 channel thing. Sending you virtual cake for your fantastic help, I really appreciate it


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## Ray McCarthy (Jan 28, 2015)

Kylara said:


> Can you couple it with a headphone behind the head bit?


With adaptor or replaced plug you can mix and match anything.
If the radio has separate mic & ear sockets then easy. But if a single jack you just need an adaptor or change plug.
If it was my radio system used by random public, I'd have a separate adaptor that takes the unmodified separate mic & head set and then replacements are easy.

Don't force me to admit I know about computers too.
(Hover mouse on image)


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