# Fantasy and Technology



## Balfa (Feb 8, 2006)

Hi!

I have question and maybe this topic was on another thread but I can't find it.

What is it called genre where magic and technology are co-existing in the same world? 

Thx.


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## kyektulu (Feb 8, 2006)

*I ,personally, would class it as fantasy. 

It just doesnt seem right to put it in a Sci Fi genre when everything in those type books generally can be explained by sciene and technology.
 I have read quite a few fantasy books where the world in which it is set is technologically advanced, spaceships and such.

 Hope this helped a bit.*


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## Balfa (Feb 9, 2006)

Thanks kye.

I've found that it's called steampunk (more precisly fantasy steampunk). China Mieville is one of the steampuk authors. All this worlds resemble Victorian age but with all the classic elements of fantasy.

Personally, like you, I would also class it as fantasy. It's just a fantasy world where they got to the Industrial age.


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## Thunderchild (Feb 9, 2006)

The only thing I can think of Is Science fantasy


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## Marky Lazer (Feb 9, 2006)

It depends on what you think is technology... Gun powder? Is that already technology? 

Or do you mean a modern world with 'sorcerers'?

I can't really think of a term to classify a genre like that anyway, but then, I haven't heard before about the term steampunk either.


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## Balfa (Feb 9, 2006)

Marky Lazer said:
			
		

> It depends on what you think is technology... Gun powder? Is that already technology?
> 
> Or do you mean a modern world with 'sorcerers'?



To me, it's a world with all the classic elements of fantasy, but in the same time a world that has evolved, discovered gunpowder, railroads, electricity (all the common signs of industrialization) and still has magic involved.

Try to imagine what would, for example, Middle-Earth look like if they discovered steam power and electricity and entered Industrial Age.


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## Marky Lazer (Feb 9, 2006)

Well, the industrialization starts in LOTR. Saruman already has gunpowder, and the orc army industrializes more and more with their warmachines.


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## Foxtale (Feb 9, 2006)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sci Fi just a story about something that _could_ in future (far future) happen?
Sci Fi deals with possibilities, Fantasy deals with impossibilities.

So because magic is impossible, it is classed as Fantasy; so if you put magic into Sci Fi, you get Fantasy, unless you somehow give it a scientific explanation, whereby it becomes Sci Fi.

"The War of the Flowers" has magic based technology. What's that? Sci Fi or Fantasy? My logic would denote it as Fantasy, but it's a fine line.


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## chrispenycate (Feb 9, 2006)

Aha - it's *industrialisation* we're worried about, rather than *technology*. After all, a chipped flint hand axe is technology, and not all that easy to do, either. Almost all fantasy is set in periods where metal smelting at least exists. (and, being fantasy, rarely specifies whether it involves bellows or conjoured air spirits to aerate the forge fire) Similarlylarge numbers of stories involving magic have been set in almost all historical and geographical locations, from late stone age up to (and even slightly beyond) present day, including Victorian England. However, the magic, curse, paranormal being, whatever, is generally a minor player in a universe structured essentially like ours. The developement of "industrial strength" magic int a high tech environment, or the differences in development of technology in a society where magic works haven't been tackled sufficently often to generate a "sub-genre" (probably because any such tale would be too "Sci-fi" for the dedicated fantasy readers, and the magic would turn off the hard core sci-fi geeks, leaving only the tolerant few who enjoy both)

I'd never heard of "steam punk" either, but I've never being a fan of sub-genres (figuring that any original book will start a new sub genre [since its originality precludes its inclusion in any existing set] so only derivative books can be subclassified) and frequently prefer crossover to the pure form.

So, yes, if it's got magic in it I would call it "fantasy" even if it's got steam trains and Babbage engines (or jet planes and computers, for that matter)


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## Balfa (Feb 9, 2006)

I agree. To me it's also fantasy but here are some resources to steampunk (sub)genre.

http://www.republika.pl/steampunk/chrono02.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk


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## topspin (Feb 9, 2006)

Hmmm... i can see this is a big subject. Just out of interest, how would
you class the 'Star Wars' universe? All the hallmarks of Sc-fi, but its got
a big mythological plot and the mystery of 'the force'. I would call it fantasy,
but its kind of science fiction too... ARGHHH! I can't decide.


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## kyektulu (Feb 9, 2006)

*I have never heard of the term 'steam punk' either, although I have heard of China Mieville, not read any of her work though.

 Thanks for the link.*


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## GOLLUM (Feb 10, 2006)

Balfa said:
			
		

> Hi!
> 
> I have question and maybe this topic was on another thread but I can't find it.
> 
> ...


Bascially the generic or overall term for this is Science Fanatsy as has already been pointed out. Technically it's a sub group of SF as I think Chris alludes to, although it seems to be more popularly defined as a genre in its own right or rather a merging of the more traditional SF and Fantasy genres or elements thereof but with a stronger leannig towards SF. Then of course there's several sub-genres under that including Swords and Planet, Plantery Romance and Dying Earth.

Steampunk is in essence a sub genre of SF but then you can also have Fantasy Stempunk as one form.

Hey whatever we want to call it who cares right?.... 

I'm off for a lie down, this is getting complicated...


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## Teresa Edgerton (Feb 10, 2006)

Chris basically took my answer about metal-smelting etc.  A steel sword is a pretty sophisticated piece of technology; so are a lot of other things that we tend to take for granted just because the technology was developed a long time ago. 

"Steampunk" was the hot new sub-genre about fifteen years ago.  People were all excited about it for a while.  Much discussion of it at SF/Fantasy conventions and on SF/Fantasy online bulletin boards.  I'm sorry it wasn't able to sustain its (brief, incandescent) popularity, because I liked it.

kyektulu, China Mieville is a man -- and one who seems to cultivate a very masculine image at that.


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## Prefx (Feb 10, 2006)

Fiction, perhaps?


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## steve12553 (Feb 12, 2006)

That Steam Punk definition seems to be a much narrower concept that magic with technology. If you've ever read "Operation Chaos" by Poul Anderson itfits the bill of magic and technology and even an alternate history but not Victorian so therefor not Steam Punk.  Fantasy still seems to be the best term for the magic and technology blend.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Feb 12, 2006)

Oh definitely -- Steampunk is a very specific type of fantasy and technology blend, very nineteenth century and in more than just the setting.

There is no one sub-genre that combines magic and technology, because both of those things can (and do) turn up together in Fantasy of all kinds, set in all periods.  I really can't think of a single Fantasy novel where there isn't some degree of technology present.  The characters would have to be living at the most primitive level -- or else do _everything_ with magic -- for it to be otherwise.


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