# HBO's Chernobyl...



## -K2- (May 14, 2019)

Is anyone else watching this?  Wow...  I'm very impressed and cannot suggest watching this enough.  Tonight episode-2 aired.  It is available on-demand.






K2


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## L.L.Lotte (May 14, 2019)

Thanks for reminding me about this. Completely forgot I flagged this one, have the episodes sitting there to watch... will be back with comments once I've had a chance to watch it. Looks promising!


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## ctg (May 14, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Is anyone else watching this? Wow...  I'm very impressed and cannot suggest watching this enough. Tonight episode-2 aired. It is available on-demand.



I am and I really like it. I'm also glad that someone else put up the thread. If you want to see how the real world science happens this docudrama is for you. I warmly recommend it to all writers and SF geeks.


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## -K2- (May 14, 2019)

ctg said:


> I am and I really like it. I'm also glad that someone else put up the thread. *If you want to see how the real world science happens this docudrama is for you.* I warmly recommend it to all writers and SF geeks.



Well beyond that, the whole Cold War aspect often based upon keeping your own people ignorant, hiding your mistakes, flaws, passing off blame and so on is some real world stuff that 'dystopian' writers should take note of.  The music is also extremely intense.
















K2


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## ctg (May 14, 2019)

That radimeter going mental at the end of the episode 2 was horrifying. I've played my fair share of Fallout games, and explored irradiated places, but never have I heard it going like that. Not even in the Stalkers games. Never in real life. To decode what it means, a one click is one bullet and that noise at the end was pure death.  Poor men. Poor volunteers. Poor USSR and their inability to handle the most dangerous substance known to modern man. All those polibureaus, what good did they do?


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## -K2- (May 14, 2019)

ctg said:


> I've played my fair share of Fallout games, and explored irradiated places, but never have I heard it going like that. Not even in the Stalkers games.



Actually, last night I downloaded the demo to an old Thermonuclear War game you might enjoy... DEFCON - Introversion software



ctg said:


> All those polibureaus, what good did they do?



Well, as we saw last night in episode-2, when the physicist from Minsk visited the party office... the party leader formally a shoe factory worker (though could have been a CEO), it's about people who feel without power, wanting power over their own people.  That's the thing... We read about it in every dystopian novel from 1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm and so on.  Those who feel powerless wanting power for power-sake.  Oddly, the excuse is always 'in defense of the people.'  Like we saw in the first episode, it's actually always about 'power over your own people.'  I looked for that speech in the first Chernobyl committee meeting by the older party member... Classic propaganda nonsense.






"When people ask questions not in their own best interest... keep their minds on their labors and leave matters of the state to the state."

That's what really struck me most about each episode.  Everyone is about taking credit for success, pointing fingers and laying blame for the failures, mistakes are twisted to come off as treason, and the truth of it is only those who demand to be in power are to blame... everyone else fodder for their egos.

That's really what my whole Liberty Stumbled series is about.  People seeking power over the masses claiming that it is for the people's own good.  Yet in reality using it to oppress the people simply to be the one at the top.

Past that, I love this from 1984.  From the Audio Book:
*1984
Ignorance is Strength ~ from 1984 by George Orwell
Novel:* 1984
*Original Release Date:* 1948
*Copyright:* © 1949 Estate of Sonia Brownell Orwell
*Recording By:* Recorded Books Inc.
*Recording Copyright:* © 1986 Recorded Books Inc.
*Narrated By:* Frank Muller
*Editing By:* K2


__
		https://soundcloud.com/user-413328199%2Fignorance-is-strength-1

K2


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## AlexH (May 17, 2019)

I signed up to NowTV last week specifically for the final series of Game of Thrones, and Chernobyl airing at the same time is a great bonus. The first two episodes have been superb, and I'm looking forward to the next one more than I am the final GoT episode. The only downside is I find almost everything being in English distracting. Just as I was getting used to it, they throw in some Russian to take me out of it. I also couldn't stop myself thinking about Martin from Friday Night Dinner whenever a certain actor was onscreen.

Highly recommended. The atmosphere and sense of dread they've captured seems perfect. I wonder how many of the shots of Pripyat in episode 2 were based on scenes there now? I think I recognised the school and glasses on a desk.


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## AlexH (May 17, 2019)




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## ctg (May 17, 2019)

AlexH said:


> . I wonder how many of the shots of Pripyat in episode 2 were based on scenes there now? I think I recognised the school and glasses on a desk.



There are quite many, especially now that they have that sarcophagus in place. The radiation is still there, but while they doing the work, a lot of grounds were cleaned from the contaminated particles. You can see the Red Forest, Powerplant, Pripayat exterior (minus the amusement park) and few others. They might even have filmed the power plant interior shots at the surviving reactors.  



AlexH said:


> I think I recognised the school and glasses on a desk.



I think those were remade, as you cannot see the deterioration in those shots.


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## ctg (May 21, 2019)

The third episode is a kind of horror episode. More so than the previous two. I don't know how the nuclear scientists managed to get strength and will to interview the control crew in the Moscow hospital. All those first responders died a horrible death. 

The only mildly amusing part was the miners protests on their working condition. Like most of the Russians, they responded with a sarcasm, but what else they could have done? Nothing. Soviets weren't prepared for this incident. Nobody was. 

What I don't understand is the secrecy. Even today, and after the Fukushima, the secrecy remains. It is like nothing has changed. The common people are still in the dark for most of the time. We aren't allow know, and we do, it is so long time after that most people from the incident has died ... or was made to disappear.


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## AlexH (May 21, 2019)

I found it amusing when the head of KGB talked about KGB following the KGB.

I'm not one for binge-watching, but show me the next episode already!


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## ctg (May 22, 2019)

AlexH said:


> I found it amusing when the head of KGB talked about KGB following the KGB.



Well, what can you do? The system was designed that way.


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## -K2- (May 24, 2019)

AlexH said:


> I found it amusing when the head of KGB talked about KGB following the KGB.



True or not... I recall reading about how the old East German Stasi supposedly made it a point to collect blood, saliva, skin, hair and even breath samples of every East German citizen so they had various means, both then and in the future, to be able to track their own people.  I bring that up because... I would like to learn what it was _really like_ in the old Soviet Union/Soviet Bloc, but fear I'll never know.

In the U.S., what went on in the USSR was always portrayed like some Orwellian nightmare that went really bad, making 1984 seeming mild.  Adding to that, hear it straight out of a Soviet defectors mouth (we have a couple friends (now very old) that _'escaped'_ notably from _Siberian prisons_ (at least that was the story I was told)), and naturally they support that... Conversely, you'll speak with some who claim the CCCP was close to a utopian society.  Naturally, the stories about the West on the other side of the wall are equally extreme.

Point being, with all of the propaganda from both sides, it makes me wonder if some of the constant blame game, fear of being the scapegoat, and stonewalling under the guise of protecting technology to appear as flawless to the rest of the world was actually that extreme.  It plays right into what we in the West were taught.  So, naturally, we nod in agreement, then shake our heads in disgust... most often to convince ourselves how right we were all along.

In the end, with so many extremes portrayed from both sides, it makes it impossible to know the actual truth of the matter.

Then again, that's the whole point of it I suppose.

K2


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## Jo Zebedee (May 24, 2019)

I lasted ten minutes and then it triggered all sorts of anxiety in me and I’m out. That shows it’s very good dystopia


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## -K2- (May 24, 2019)

Jo Zebedee said:


> I lasted ten minutes and then it triggered all sorts of anxiety in me and I’m out. That shows it’s very good dystopia



Sorry it bothered you, but I appreciate you taking the time to check it out.

K2


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## AlexH (May 24, 2019)

-K2- said:


> True or not... I recall reading about how the old East German Stasi supposedly made it a point to collect blood, saliva, skin, hair and even breath samples of every East German citizen so they had various means, both then and in the future, to be able to track their own people.  I bring that up because... I would like to learn what it was _really like_ in the old Soviet Union/Soviet Bloc, but fear I'll never know.
> 
> In the U.S., what went on in the USSR was always portrayed like some Orwellian nightmare that went really bad, making 1984 seeming mild.  Adding to that, hear it straight out of a Soviet defectors mouth (we have a couple friends (now very old) that _'escaped'_ notably from _Siberian prisons_ (at least that was the story I was told)), and naturally they support that... Conversely, you'll speak with some who claim the CCCP was close to a utopian society.  Naturally, the stories about the West on the other side of the wall are equally extreme.
> 
> ...


I think there must be truth when there are so many testimonials - on both sides of the coin. I've read about Bulgaria and Romania under Communist rule, and it was terrible for many but a good standard of living for others.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 24, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Sorry it bothered you, but I appreciate you taking the time to check it out.
> 
> K2


It's cool. I can't watch District 9, either. And Life freaked me out too. It looked good but I'll maybe pick up a book about it all, sometime.


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## Phyrebrat (May 24, 2019)

Jo Zebedee said:


> It's cool. I can't watch District 9, either. And Life freaked me out too. It looked good but I'll maybe pick up a book about it all, sometime.



Me too. Come with me for some saccharin guilty dross this weekend


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## ctg (May 24, 2019)

Jo Zebedee said:


> It's cool. I can't watch District 9, either. And Life freaked me out too.



How can you be squeamish about the D9, when you write about alien prisons, the destruction of mankind and torture scenes in your books?


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## Jo Zebedee (May 24, 2019)

ctg said:


> How can you be squeamish about the D9, when you write about alien prisons, the destruction of mankind and torture scenes in your books?


Not sure, but I've never been able to reach the end of it. I think it's because it's about mutation and that kinda of triggers something in me. Life was about that, too. Also, I can read about just about anything, it's the visual medium that I can't always watch, so maybe that's why. 

Or maybe I just like to scare the living ... out of myself.


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## Al Jackson (May 24, 2019)

HBO’s mini series Chernobyl is very good.


Being an HBO production values are outstanding.


A British production shot in Lithuania , I am impressed how ‘Soviet-era’ looking it is.


I know they could not do it in Russian , but they keep the ‘background’ in Cyrillic.


Cast is excellent really feel one is watching a group of Russians.


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## Al Jackson (May 24, 2019)

ctg said:


> That radimeter going mental at the end of the episode 2 was horrifying. I've played my fair share of Fallout games, and explored irradiated places, but never have I heard it going like that. Not even in the Stalkers games. Never in real life. To decode what it means, a one click is one bullet and that noise at the end was pure death.  Poor men. Poor volunteers. Poor USSR and their inability to handle the most dangerous substance known to modern man. All those polibureaus, what good did they do?


That they did not have , or suppressed the deployment of sophisticated radiation measuring equipment at a date as late as 1986 is insane.
This kind of mind set was a major contribution to the collapse of the Soviet empire.
That modern Russians put up with vestiges of that in the 21st century passes beyond my understanding.


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## -K2- (May 24, 2019)

Jo Zebedee said:


> It's cool. I can't watch District 9, either. And Life freaked me out too. It looked good but I'll maybe pick up a book about it all, sometime.



Well, if my Liberty Stumbled thing ever comes your way... PLEASE, *don't read it*.  I don't want to get sued for inspiring therapy immune incurable nightmares and psychological trauma (besides, the poor writing costs folks I.Q. points... my theory being, if I can make them dull witted in a few lines, they'll think my stuff is great!). 

K2


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## Jo Zebedee (May 24, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Well, if my Liberty Stumbled thing ever comes your way... PLEASE, *don't read it*.  I don't want to get sued for inspiring therapy immune incurable nightmares and psychological trauma (besides, the poor writing costs folks I.Q. points... my theory being, if I can make them dull witted in a few lines, they'll think my stuff is great!).
> 
> K2


As I said above written media rarely bothers me. As CTG says, I write pretty dark stuff weirdly enough


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## ctg (May 25, 2019)

´+


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## -K2- (May 28, 2019)

Well, that was a cheery episode, things are looking up!  Okay... I lied, does the nightmare ever end? 

Nevertheless, I'm REALLY enjoying this series.  Unfortunately (though wisely IMO), next week is the last episode.  That leaves the big question.  One that cannot be answered on this forum and unfortunately, will likely never be answered for everyone elsewhere.  Not, 'how do you prevent such accidents?'  That I suspect is addressed routinely.  For me-- the big question is; how do you get ANY/every political system to put the people first?

That question naturally, is for elsewhere... Great show! 

Alas poor Orwell.  Truth will always be more terrible than fiction.

K2


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## ctg (May 28, 2019)

Chernobyl nuclear disaster – in pictures
					

In the immediate aftermath of the explosion on 26 April, 1986, few were prepared to endure the massive radiation levels and document the disaster, but Russian photographer Igor Kostin did. Here is a selection of his finest images




					www.theguardian.com


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## Al Jackson (May 28, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Well, that was a cheery episode, things are looking up!  Okay... I lied, does the nightmare ever end?
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm REALLY enjoying this series.  Unfortunately (though wisely IMO), next week is the last episode.  That leaves the big question.  One that cannot be answered on this forum and unfortunately, will likely never be answered for everyone elsewhere.  Not, 'how do you prevent such accidents?'  That I suspect is addressed routinely.  For me-- the big question is; how do you get ANY/every political system to put the people first?
> 
> ...


The reactor (reactors) at Chernobyl suffered from poor design, the disaster there was just about as bad as one could ever have. 
Three Mile Island and even Fukushima did not release as much radioactive debris. 
Fukushima actually lost all three of its reactors but did not have their cores blown all over the country side.
The RBMK style reactors at Chernobyl build elsewhere but with better design.
The European reactors have different design and have never had problems.

On the show , which was shot in  Lithuania used a decommissioned RBMK reactor almost the same as at Chernobyl , reason the 'world building' for the series looks so authentic!


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## ctg (May 28, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Well, that was a cheery episode, things are looking up! Okay... I lied, does the nightmare ever end?



It will never go away as long as we keep using nuclear reactors. On the other side of that is the problem of what we are going to do with the power needs? We go in space, back to Moon and the first thing we'll have to think about is the energy needs, hence they're going to use small reactors to charge the batteries of drones that will build the Moon base.

We know that the USSR hid a lot of these things, and the whole system collapsed five years after into its own impossibility. The US is still going strong, but it had its own levels of secrecy and things that come with it. The Pentagon hid the nuclear incidents from the public, and they weren't much better at it then the mighty Soviet Bear. 

Today we have the renewables energy movement, and we have woken to the fact that what we do is ruining the planet. Many people are aware that the humanity is sort of cancer. Although that sounds nightmarish, we are learning to live with the consequences. Like what happened at Fukushima and why today we cannot talk about its consequences without getting into the territory that makes both sides uncomfortable.

The truth is we have played with hazardous and seriously dangerous stuff for a long time, and we cannot get away with it. Instead we have no choice but to live with it, and keep developing tools and advancing us towards the future if we want to survive. At the end of the day that is all we can do because there is no alternative. 

There is no alien race that has come to rescue us or teach us from making mistakes. There is no examples of parallel worlds doing the same thing or a traveller from the future, trying to prevent the accident. It is important that we learn from these mistakes, as to the science, a failure is as important and sometimes more important than the success. The triumphs don't teach us what happens when the brown stuff really hits the fan!


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## Dave (May 28, 2019)

I haven't seen this series. My son has recommended it. I probably will based upon these posts. I wanted to answer some points, hopefully without it being too political:


-K2- said:


> the big question is; how do you get ANY/every political system to put the people first?





ctg said:


> It will never go away as long as we keep using nuclear reactors. On the other side of that is the problem of what we are going to do with the power needs?


We do need nuclear fission reactors, at least in the short term, if we are to reduce CO₂ emissions. Renewable energy is less easy to turn on and off and batteries are coming a long way quickly, but the current batteries need Lithium. Lithium and Uranium need to be mined at an environmental cost and are finite resources. Uranium stocks are as finite as coal and gas. In the future, we may work out something else better.

Accidents are always going to happen. They always have and yet they continue to cause surprise. They are usually, very simply because a human was stupid. They are often because poor standards were allowed due to corruption of bad budgeting, so allowing that initial stupidity to be overlooked by even more stupidity.

There are always going to be be government cover-ups, and conspiracy theories about government cover-ups. There was an industrial accident that caused a huge explosion in Gateshead in 1856. Thousands of people killed or injured and made homeless. Explosions seen and heard fifty miles away. During the inquiry by Lord Palmerston there was a rumour that it had been caused deliberately to remove the slum housing. The inquiry concluded that it was just an accident, but that it could have been easily prevented if safety had been a higher priority.

I find little difference really between that and most disasters, whether several recent industrial accidents, or what are commonly termed 'natural' disasters. The size of the death toll is generally a result of poor risk management systems in place rather than the actual hazard itself.

Nothing is ever black and white, good and bad. It is the lawyers and politicians and the newspapers who want it portrayed that way. Real life is always much more nuanced.

How can you get people put first? Education. Better educated people who understand the science behind the arguments, who understand the nuances, who understand the difference between a hazard and a risk; because they will ask the right questions, those people will make sure the government speaks to them intelligently and it won't tell them instead, "we know best for you because it is too complicated for you to understand."


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## ctg (May 28, 2019)

By the way, here's a video showing the elderly russian female still living in the area.


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## Al Jackson (May 28, 2019)

Dave said:


> How can you get people put first? Education. Better educated people who understand the science behind the arguments, who understand the nuances, who understand the difference between a hazard and a risk; because they will ask the right questions, those people will make sure the government speaks to them intelligently and it won't tell them instead, "we know best for you because it is too complicated for you to understand."



The old Soviet Union was an odd duck. Marx would have been horrified to know that it was Russian that attempted his experiment. Russia traded a Czar for another Czar with a different classification ,  no matter the social/economic experiment the Russians came out running under a Chieftain and a wide ruling aristocracy with all those  names changed.  Ordinary urban Russia looks like the modern world today , why they still have a strong man rule is a puzzle.


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## ctg (May 28, 2019)

Al Jackson said:


> Ordinary urban Russia looks like the modern world today , why they still have a strong man rule is a puzzle.



It looks like that in places, but dig little deeper and you'll see it's very bleak. The problem with strong arm rule is that it's a tradition and their traditions are hard to westernise. There are a lot of things that Mr P could have done differently, just like many of his predecessors. And most of all they still think themselves as a superpower, even though it's in the twilight years. 

One thing that they have common with the US and China is the secrecy. Even today. Even after everything that has been done, it's still a big thing. You saw it in the latest episode with the West German robots. They told the manufacturers totally obscure number for the radiation levels, and the West German did the robot to a spec. 

Why is it that time after time we keep hitting our heads against the same problems?


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## Al Jackson (May 28, 2019)

ctg said:


> It looks like that in places, but dig little deeper and you'll see it's very bleak. The problem with strong arm rule is that it's a tradition and their traditions are hard to westernise. There are a lot of things that Mr P could have done differently, just like many of his predecessors. And most of all they still think themselves as a superpower, even though it's in the twilight years.
> 
> One thing that they have common with the US and China is the secrecy. Even today. Even after everything that has been done, it's still a big thing. You saw it in the latest episode with the West German robots. They told the manufacturers totally obscure number for the radiation levels, and the West German did the robot to a spec.
> 
> Why is it that time after time we keep hitting our heads against the same problems?


On the show they made it look like the German robot stopped working when it was turned on, I read that it did work for some while but did eventually get zapped.


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## -K2- (Jun 3, 2019)

Put on your lead fez... or your radiation-proof knight's helmet if so inclined...









Grab your thyroid shielding...  Don't forget your lead vest and skirt...











And whatever you do, *don't forget your lead panties!*






For you more modest types....









The last episode is on tonight!  I wonder what will happen?   Why, it might even make history!

K2


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## -K2- (Jun 4, 2019)

Wow... 

That was an excellent ending.  For anyone who hasn't watched this five part series yet, I strongly advise you take the time to do so.

As an example, there is a very short scene, well after everything that has happened, even the trial, and the KGB's Deputy Chairman is telling Valery Legosov (the primary scientist involved in heading all this off), what his fate will be for *telling the truth*.  The words and actual punishment levied upon Legosov who is trying to prevent the accident from happening at their other reactors was nothing short of 1984's O'Brian telling Winston Smith in 'Room-101' what his fate will be.  As terrible as all else was, that crushing oppression relying on Ministry of Truth quality lies is staggering.

It was truly a wonderful series and the ending had just as much if not more impact than every other episode.  If it comes available, I'd really like to post that one scene I mentioned above, and if not, I may try and watch it again just to transcribe it.

I cannot suggest strongly enough, if even simply for entertainment purposes, that folks watch this.

K2


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## -K2- (Jun 4, 2019)

Ah, what I was looking for mentioned above:









Spoiler: KGB Deputy Chairman Aleksandr Charkov, tells Valery Legasov his fate:



_There is a bit more before this quote which is equally unsettling (the first line hinting at it), yet this is all I could find so early..._
*Charkov*: No one's getting shot, Legasov. The whole world saw you in Vienna; it would be embarassing to kill you now. And for what? Your testimony today will not be accepted by the State. It will not be disseminated in the press. _It never happened._ No... you will live, however long you have. But not as a scientist. Not anymore. You'll keep your title and your office, but no duties. No authority. No friends. No one will talk to you. No one will listen to you. Other men, _lesser_ men, will receive credit for the things you have done. Your legacy is now _their_ legacy; you will live long enough to see that.



K2


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## WaylanderToo (Jun 4, 2019)

Dave said:


> How can you get people put first? Education. Better educated people who understand the science behind the arguments, who understand the nuances, who understand the difference between a hazard and a risk; because they will ask the right questions, those people will make sure *the government speaks to them intelligently and it won't tell them instead, "we know best for you because it is too complicated for you to understand."*




Good luck with that   can't say any really otherwise we'll stay into politics.

Great series though


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## ctg (Jun 4, 2019)

> HBO's _Chernobyl_ miniseries aired its finale tonight, concluding its tale of the real-life nuclear disaster at the Chernobyl Power Plant on April 26, 1986 near the city of Pripyat in the Ukraine. It's a story that, despite being brought to life over the course of the series' five episodes, is a very real one and a complex story about not just the disaster itself, but complex and horrifying series of human errors, lies, and corruption that led to the fateful explosion. That means that several of the characters in the series are based on real people, including scientist Valery Legasov and for actor Jared Harris, that came with its own unique set of challenges.
> 
> In an interview with The Cheat Sheet, Harris said that one of his great challenges in preparing for his role as Legasov was getting his hands on historical records about the man -- including the audio tapes Legasov recorded his own story of the Chernobyl disaster on before taking his own life -- because much of the historical record about Legasov has simply been erased.
> 
> ...


 HBO's Chernobyl Star Jared Harris on the Challenges of Playing Valery Legasov



> HBO's five episode _Chernobyl_ miniseries tells the story of the real-life nuclear disaster that occurred at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in Soviet Ukraine on April 26, 1986, digging into both the human stories of the horrific disaster as well as the corruption, the lies, and the human costs associated with the event. It's a story so difficult and, in some cases, gruesome, that it may not seem like the first choice of story to tell, but for series creator Craig Mazin, it was a story that needed to be told, largely because it's one he became invested in out of personal interest.
> 
> Speaking with BAFTA Guru about the writing of the _Chernobyl_ miniseries, Mazin explained that the series came out of his own interest in the disaster, specifically after he started researching it for himself and fell in love with the personal stories of those impacted by the disaster.
> 
> ...


 HBO's Chernobyl Creator Craig Mazin on How the Series Came Together


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## Al Jackson (Jun 4, 2019)

This was one of the best docu-dramas I have seen on TV is years.
I thought the closing 'credit' sequence answered a number of criticisms about the factual content of the show.


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## ctg (Jun 4, 2019)

The Atlantic did a picture montage on the incident. More rare shots.















						Photos From the 1986 Chernobyl Disaster
					

Thirty-three years ago, a series of explosions destroyed Chernobyl's reactor No. 4, starting a blaze that burned for 10 days and sent a plume of radiation around the world—and that was just the beginning of the disaster.




					www.theatlantic.com


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## -K2- (Jun 4, 2019)

ctg said:


> The Atlantic did a picture montage on the incident. More rare shots.



Pity... I cannot see any of the photos on that webpage 

K2


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## ctg (Jun 4, 2019)

-K2- said:


> Pity... I cannot see any of the photos on that webpage



Use VPN. It works in US, UK and EU without one. Nirvana might be geoblocked. Sorry.


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## -K2- (Jun 4, 2019)

_From Forbes (unsure if I should post link)..._
*‘Chernobyl’ Ends Its HBO Run As The Highest Audience Rated TV Series In History*

A few highlights from the article:
Viewers have rated Chernobyl the highest scored television series in history, according to over a hundred thousand votes on IMDB. 
The top ten list has not changed since two weeks ago, nor after last night’s finale, which I think everyone can agree was great. But now _Chernobyl_ has more than doubled its number of votes from before, and kept its exact same high score.

Chernobyl (9.7 – 111,000 votes)
Planet Earth II (9.5 – 71,000 votes)
Band of Brothers (9.5 – 317,000 votes)
Planet Earth (9.4 – 147,000 votes)
Breaking Bad (9.4 – 1,200,000 votes)
Game of Thrones (9.4, 1,500,000 votes)
Our Planet (9.4 – 10,000 votes)
The Wire (9.3 – 244,000 votes)
Cosmos (9.3 – 95,000 votes)
Blue Planet (9.3 – 19,000 votes)
I'll leave everyone to find their preferred source for movie reviews and check there.  'Forbes' was simply something that popped up on my screen, yet, is by no means a source I trust for absolute answers.

K2


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## Al Jackson (Jun 5, 2019)

Al Jackson said:


> This was one of the best docu-dramas I have seen on TV is years.
> I thought the closing 'credit' sequence answered a number of criticisms about the factual content of the show.



Putin’s Media Struggle to Deal With HBO’s Chernobyl
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/04/putins-media-struggle-to-deal-with-hbos-chernobyl-a65866


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## Al Jackson (Jun 5, 2019)

-K2- said:


> _From Forbes (unsure if I should post link)..._
> *‘Chernobyl’ Ends Its HBO Run As The Highest Audience Rated TV Series In History*
> 
> A few highlights from the article:
> ...





-K2- said:


> Band of Brothers (9.5 – 317,000 votes)
> K2



I loved Band of Brothers on HBO one of my favorite shows, but years later HBO did THE PACIFIC about the war in the Pacific and I guess not a lot watched it? To me is was as good a Band of Brothers , I give it a 9.5. 
Maybe it's beause the war in Europe is more popular than the war in the Pacific?


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## -K2- (Jun 5, 2019)

Al Jackson said:


> Putin’s Media Struggle to Deal With HBO’s Chernobyl
> https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/06/04/putins-media-struggle-to-deal-with-hbos-chernobyl-a65866




An excellent post...

K2


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## ctg (Jun 7, 2019)

> Photographer *Tom Skipp* visited Chernobyl and nearby Pripyat, its replacement town Slavutych, and the abandoned sites of the region – meeting the people behind the disaster: from the liquidators who worked at the fallout site, to the resettlers and the community who live and work in the area now
> 
> I arrived in Ukraine on the eve of the 32nd anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster. I had not intended for it to be the focus of my time in Kyiv, but leading up to my departure it became an obsession. My arrival in Kyiv on 25 April 2018 was maybe happenstance of planning but I was impelled to head straight from the airport to Slavutych. This was the town built to replace Pripyat and host the evacuated personnel of the Chernobyl power plant, after the decision was made to continue power production following the disaster. All of the Soviet republics were called upon to hurriedly help with the construction of what would eventually be the last atomic town.


 Chernobyl now: 'I was not afraid of radiation' – a photo essay







> Nearby, there are cooling lakes full of oversized fish. They used to be farmed to feed bears for the local fur industry, but after the accident the furs were too contaminated to be worn and the fish were left to their own device.



 Doesn't these fishes know they are over the regulation?  It is almost as funny as feeding them to bears and then realising they're full of radiation, when the bears get a radiation poisoning and start to lose their fur.


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## Lumens (Jun 12, 2019)

Highly recommended! Amazing and terrifying at the same time. You really get a feeling of being there (and you really don't want to be there for real). The music is fantastic too - very minimal and experimental, and for me it's worth it just for that alone. 

It's clear that they wanted it to be realistic and scientifically accurate, and as far as I can tell, they succeeded. As others have mentioned, they have captured the period well. You get a very good insight into what happened, even as an layman. The politics are intersting too. I can understand why it got high ratings.


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## Dave (Jun 12, 2019)

I echo what everyone else has said. I feel educated now on the reasons for the accident as I hadn't quite understood the complexity of the situation, or that it was not simply a case of 'operator error'. 

It was quite a cast too. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't get over that the dad from 'Friday Night Dinners' was the 'bad guy'. (It was worse than 'Sansa' becoming 'Jean Grey'.) When you saw the photos of the actual people at the end, they had chosen actors who were incredibly good likenesses. Paul Ritter is almost identical to Anatoly Dyatlov.

It was a pity that they needed to create the composite character of Ulana Khomyuk in order to tell the story of all the various scientists who worked behind the scenes. I just feel that fictionalising the story too heavily could have detracted from the message it wanted to send.


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## IntoTheBlack (Jun 12, 2019)

Hello all,

I watched this with my wife, who is Ukrainian.  She felt it was representative of the times, people were generally ignorant of radioactive sources.  The government did not do anything to educate before the reactor explosion and certainly did not want to admit they knew of a flaw afterwards.  

Her father was offered a job to go and cut trees down in the forest near Pripyat, his wife (Kamila's mother) would not let him go which could be why he is 86 today.  

He took another job in a factory where he was management, so got a glass of wine at lunch time to cope with any fall out from Chernobyl.  Not iodine but wine  

Kamila thought the show was fantastically accurate, she was sad so many of them died, had birth defects etc.  Due to their dispersal across the USSR it was hard to tell the true toll as there are other reason for such issues.  But for some it would certainly be a contributing factor.

Kamila was under no illusion, if they could have hidden the explosion they would have.  

A sad but cautionary and very relevant tale.

Andy


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## MaxiPower (Jun 15, 2019)

Sad that its gonna be how we end up. The way our world is going we have not seen the last of such disasters. All those films from the 80s showing a destroyed world in like 2100s etc seem more likely now than the cliche joke they were back then. We as a species suck. Whether terrorism or accidental we are going to bring this world to ruin.


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## Foxbat (Jul 18, 2019)

Just started watching this on DVD. After two episodes I have to say that I'm very impressed.

Just as an aside, thought you people might want a UK perspective after IntoThe Black's Ukranian one. I started in the Nuclear industry days after Chernobyl hit the headlines. To say i had second thoughts is an understatement. A couple of months down the line, myself and a couple of colleagues were sent out specifically to locate contamination from the accident. We were finding it primarily in drains and gutters where rain water deposited it in higher concentrations(about 50 times higher than background in some places). Reconcentration was also the reason the consumption of animals in certain parts of the country was banned. The rain deposited very low levels on pasture but these levels increased significantly as they were reconcentrated in sheep and cattle grazing on the land.

We found one particle that was particularly high and further analysis showed it to contain Zirconium. This metal is part of the alloy used to clad fuel for RBMK reactors and had been deposited by the typical UK wind and rain.


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## -K2- (Jul 18, 2019)

Just for the record @Foxbat , I felt the series simply got better each episode.  SO if you enjoyed the first two... 

K2


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## ctg (Jul 18, 2019)

Foxbat said:


> We found one particle that was particularly high and further analysis showed it to contain Zirconium. This metal is part of the alloy used to clad fuel for RBMK reactors and had been deposited by the typical UK wind and rain.



I bet that wasn't the only particle, that had landed over here. But even then you didn't get a ban on eating berries and mushrooms, or even collecting them for two years, where as in Finland we had to do that, and make sure we had iodine added as a food supplement. Easiest way was to add it on the salt, and use it then on daily basis.

The strangest thing coming out from the series is vodka. For some reason everyone kept drinking it while they worked on the accident site, and it helped people to flush heavy particles out from the body. I don't understand how it works, but there are people alive today, because of it.


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## Foxbat (Jul 19, 2019)

ctg said:


> I bet that wasn't the only particle, that had landed over here.



It was the only one I found personally but I'm sure there were millions more.

Tritium is a product of nuclear fission (both as a fission product and an activation product). It has a ten year half-life and a ten day biological half-life. It tends to go for the gastro-intestinal tract so vodka would be a good way to flush it out (although experts suggest plenty of water rather than alcohol). Of course, vodka being bottled,  would be less likely to be contaminated than local water supplies. 

Vodka wouldn't help with other isotopes like Caesium 137 however. It tends to replace Calcium in the bones. It irradiates and kills the bone marrow (where blood is formed) and is why there were so many bone marrow transplants of Chernobyl victims at the time.


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## Foxbat (Jul 19, 2019)

Now watched four episodes. Really, really, _really_ impressed. In my time, I've sat through dozens of safety briefings concerning various nuclear events throughout the world. I've seen a lot of photographs of the biological effects of radiation and I  have to commend the makeup artists. what they have produced in this series is horrific but, sadly, quite authentic.


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## Foxbat (Jul 20, 2019)

Finished this last night. Just couldn't stop watching. Absolutely superb. More like this please


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## ctg (Jul 20, 2019)

Foxbat said:


> Finished this last night. Just couldn't stop watching. Absolutely superb. More like this please



Did it want to make you want to change anything inside the industry? Did it alarm you?


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## Foxbat (Jul 20, 2019)

ctg said:


> Did it want to make you want to change anything inside the industry? Did it alarm you?


It certainly alarmed me.

However....
I knew most of what went on already. I knew the utter arrogant stupidity of the management. I also knew about  the positive void coefficient. The only thing I really wasn't aware of was that the control rods were graphite tipped- which seems utter madness although it's always easy in hindsight.

What many people will not be aware of is that after 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl, there was a concerted effort by the nuclear industry all across the world to get its house in order to ensure that nothing like this ever happened again. It's called WANO (The World Association Of Nuclear Operators). they are an independent body and their primary task is the conducting of peer reviews. The examiners are picked from nuclear operating plants all over the world to provide a breadth of experience and their primary objective is to hunt out every single negative that they can. They are simply not interested in positives unless they are exceptionally positive. I, and many others, have been under the scrutiny of a peer review and it can be very upsetting as well as deeply unsettling. You just have to keep telling yourself it's not personal. Their job is to find any areas for improvement (AFI) and ensure that these improvements are implemented within a given time period. People being marked for AFI have the right to challenge but the justification must be very strong indeed.

It's a bit like having the Gestapo breathing down your neck but I have no doubt whatsoever that the nuclear industry is much safer because of the existence of WANO.

With all that said, no, I don't regret my decision to enter and spend 32 years in the nuclear industry. I still live close to the plant I worked in and I used to analyse the discharges coming from that plant so I know exactly what's going on. I wouldn't be living so close to it if I thought there was something seriously wrong there because when I'm not there, I'm as much a part of the public as anybody else.

We used to have a bit of gallows humour in the Chernobyl days. it was: _If you see me running, it's time for you to start running too. _





__





						Nuclear Safety | World Association of Nuclear Operators (WANO)
					

The World Association of Nuclear Operators (WANO) is an international group of nuclear power plant operators, dedicated to nuclear safety. Visit our website to find out more.




					www.wano.info


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## ctg (Jul 20, 2019)

Foxbat said:


> With all that said, no, I don't regret my decision to enter and spend 32 years in the nuclear industry. I still live close to the plant I worked in and I used to analyse the discharges coming from that plant so I know exactly what's going on. I wouldn't be living so close to it if I thought there was something seriously wrong there because when I'm not there, I'm as much a part of the public as anybody else.



I asked previously about the radiation badges. We did a school trip to one of the Finnish plants, and they were showing those meters. My understanding was that it was a film that showed through exposure a sample amount of what the person had gathered during their stay? Is it true or did I imagine it? You do have some sort of personal measuring device?

Also about the meters they used, did it shock you that the managers didn't realise the difference between the readings, or that there are different sort of meters? These days the fancy ones can even identify the particles, if needed and it surprised me that the FLIR was one of the companies that do those sort of things. In fact, the technology has jumped a great deal forward since the Chernobyl happened, but none of us were ready for the Fukushima. In fact there are still no real robots that can do the things, like picking up the graphite pieces and chucking them into the pit, because they die in the high radiation environments.

The radiation shielding is still a bit of state-of-the-art kind of job, when it comes to the robots or automatons and it costs a great deal of money. The way I see the future is that we have no choice but to accept the reality as we need automatons, were it a robot, drone, android, teleprecense controlled machine or a some sort of weird hybrid. We also have to accept the reality that in space, we have no choice, it's either a nuclear or then a fusion reactor for next however long. 

The simple reason is that the renewable energy, like sunlight can carry us only so long, before your panels become like sails, or then they become so enormous that they become objects in the sky, visible either to the naked eye or to the telescopes. It's also kind of funny that the only choice we can power the Moon base, during the two week long night, is a mini 10kW reactor. So, in a way, everyone of us has to deal with those things, and learn the safety procedures if we want to conquer this solar system ... or universe. 

Maybe we have no choice but to create an automaton that can learn and adapt to the strict regulations. One, which would be impervious to the human manipulation and would only serve the plant, meaning that if it dies, the plant shutdown, permanently.    

How do you see the nuclear industry future?


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## Foxbat (Jul 20, 2019)

To answer your questions. Yes, there is such a thing as a film badge but when I started, we used Thermoluminescent Dosimeters. This is essentially a chemical compound that absorbs radiation , which excites electrons within the chemical. When you heat this compound, it releases this energy in the form of light (photons). The amount of light emitted is proportional to the dose received. In the last few years, we moved to electronic dosimeters (essentially using something similar to a light sensitive diode).

Reading these older meters is an art in itself. One old one I used was called an RO10. It had a selector switch which, when used, upped the readings by a factor of ten. It was easy to make a mistake by forgetting to multiply what you saw. Some instruments can be 'flooded' and under-read when exposed to too much ionising radiation. You really need to know what you're doing and what the pitfalls/characteristics of certain instruments are. One classic mistake is to assume that because your instrument reads full scale then that's what you have when, in reality, it could be much, much higher. The trick is when entering an area to assume the worst. Start on the highest scale and work down. If it's already full scale, then get out.

You are correct about robotic methods and many are already in use. Another practice is to replicate a piece of plant you intend to work on and go and practice. This allows you to be ready before you enter a high radiation area. The main principles of protection are Time, Distance and Shielding so if you can get up to speed and do a job in the minimum amount of time, it helps. We also used meters that extended out to about 30 feet (Distance). I've done this many times myself. We also used to train 6 times a year for disasters. It's like a military exercise. We are subjected to a horror scenario and have to deal with it (all under the eye of the nuclear regulator). If we fail, we could be shut down.

Shielding can be tricky. Everybody thinks Lead but you have to be careful. If you use only lead whilst dealing with highly energetic beta particles, you can create a phenomenon called Brehmstrahlung. The Beta particles interact with the dense nuclei of the lead and result in X rays. So, if you shield yourself with lead angainst strong beta, you could end up being subjected to X rays. The answer is to use aluminium and then lead to prevent this.

As for the future, I'm not sure it has much of a future. I believe in a mixed energy strategy and think it foolhardy to rely only on wind or other renewables that are subjected to weather. You need what is called a Base Load and only Nuclear (or perhaps Fusion in the future) can provide this. Politically, the tide is against nuclear and i don't think it's a wise situation.

Just for the record (my actual medical record). The average dose received in the UK from background radiation is 1 milliSievert per year. At the end of my employment, my dose record showed that I had received just over 9 milliSieverts total exposure. That's actually pretty  good in 32 years (where my total background for that period would be around 32 milliSieverts).


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## ctg (Jul 30, 2019)

Russia again



> The source of a gigantic, mysterious leak of radioactive material that swept across Europe in 2017 has been traced to a Russian nuclear facility, which appears to have been preparing materials for experiments in Italy.
> 
> The leak released up to 100 times the amount of radiation into the atmosphere that the Fukushima disaster did. Italian scientists were the first to raise the alarm on 2 October, when they noticed a burst of the radioactive ruthenium-106 in the atmosphere. This was quickly corroborated by other monitoring laboratories across Europe.
> 
> ...


 Gigantic, mysterious radiation leak traced to facility in Russia


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## Foxbat (Jul 30, 2019)

There was also a leak of Iodine 131 from an experimental reactor in Norway's Halden facility a couple of years ago. It is a short-lived fission product with a 7 day half-life.


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## -K2- (Nov 15, 2019)

I'm _doubtful_ that the youtube post is official (but don't know), yet here supposedly is the music (and mood sounds) from the miniseries:






K2


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## olive (Nov 15, 2019)

I am afraid to watch this show. Glad to hear I am not alone. Because I know that it is going to give me nightmares. There I said it.

But I love D9 very much. I cried sobbing after I saw it. Life was fun, too. It's pretty much 'Life'. (The young woman sitting beside me in the theatre almost climbed on my lap, she was so scared, lol.) They are both OK. They have some reedemable quality.

But I refuse to view any nuclear power plant disaster as  'life!'. Esp. one that already happened. I know, I know...


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## -K2- (Nov 16, 2019)

As I watch this short 5-part series again (which is available with all other HBO series at 'on-demand'), I'm once more struck by so much about this series. The pace is quick, every aspect no matter how minimal has impact and relevance following a timeline. As an example, here is the last 90 seconds of episode 1 (I'm trying to get the media to start at 1:33. If it doesn't, skip to that point):






As the series progresses you never get a break. As noted previously, the last episode right up till the end never eased off on that escalating scale in the least.

IMO, as a novice writer, the pace, flow, impact, and depth of this movie I'd like to mimic.

K2


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