# People's Petition...



## Adasunshine (Apr 20, 2006)

First off, don't flame me, this topic is so emotive and rife with potential arguments - arguments which I don't really wish to start, or get involved in, it's not what I come here for.

This petition is about the use of animals for _medical_ research.

The link will take you to the site which will give you all the info you need, it's your choice whether you sign it or not.

http://www.peoplespetition.org.uk/

xx


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## GrownUp (Apr 20, 2006)

I've signed. My comment was:
More than one person in my family has died young from cancer. My mum lost both of her parents when she was a young child. Her brother has spent years working in cancer research, specialising in children's cancers. All that I can do is sign this petition.


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## Marky Lazer (Apr 20, 2006)

I don't think it's the place to argument, is it?


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## Rane Longfox (Apr 20, 2006)

Thank you for the link, Ada. I'm not going to say whether I signed up or not, because it's a very sensitive subject, but the website was very imformative regardless.


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## weaveworld (Apr 20, 2006)

I signed it.


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## Paige Turner (Apr 20, 2006)

I don't want to cause any trouble, and I didn't go to the link, but I labour under the assumption that online petitions, because they are susceptible to all manner of manipulations and cannot be verified, are ineffective in forming any kind of policy. If anyone knows of any web-based petition that has been used or seriously taken into consideration by policy-makers, please let me know. I would like to be mistaken on this point.


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## GrownUp (Apr 20, 2006)

This petition was a headline on BBC news yesterday.


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## Rane Longfox (Apr 20, 2006)

There was an online petition set up by the countryside alliance in conjunction to their on-the-streets one, but that didn't work anyway... mores the pity.


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## jackokent (Apr 20, 2006)

I was going to keep quiet but as this is such an inclusive and I think fair minded site, I've decided to speak up.  I am very much against animal testing.  I know there are a number of biologists and experts on this site and they are bound to correct me, but I am not convinced of the vailidity of animal testing for human conditions.  An example I suppose would be the recent calamity of the human testers who were criticall ill after testing a drug that had been tested on animals for years.

I also can't agree it's a majority in favour as I am not sure what figures there are and how rubust they are.  The only survey I know of is anonymous which for me, calls its validity into question.

I have suffered loss from cancer but I guess it comes down to the fact that I can't deal with animal suffering either.  I would probably risk my life for my dog and I would put myself at risk to test an animal drug for him.  When talking about the other way round however no animal can make the choices I would.  I doubt they are willing participants.  When they are used, the pubic is never really invited to see what happens.  Why is this, I have to ask.

So I can't sign.


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## nixie (Apr 20, 2006)

I've signed the petition, animal testing is always going to be a sensitive subject and maybe I've made the wrong decision.


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## sanityassassin (Apr 20, 2006)

I can't sign this petiton and agree with jackokent I've never seen any valid argument to condone it. There are valid arguments for not to test on animals ie the most common of used drugs to treat many illnesses penicillan was tested on lab rats and was found to be highly poisonous. The news in the UK was rife with clinical trials about a month ago when human subjects in a drug test nearly died from a clinical trial of a new drug it was tested on animals before at the equivelent of 10 times the dosage and was declared safe tell that to the 6 subjects who went into a coma.


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## Jives (Apr 21, 2006)

Jackokent - you and I seem to have basically the same opinions on a lot of subjects, this one also being one of those.

I'm a scientist, and I know that the advances that we've made in medicine as a civilization asolutely would have been impossible if not for animals.   Ever had a tetanus shot?  A flu shot?  an immunization for polio?  Ever had surgery or know someone that has?  Do you use cosmetics or take any kind of medication for a chronic disease?

Then you owe a great debt to those thousands of animals whose lives were taken (no, I didn't say given) to make sure that you and your children can live to a older healthier age.

I'm not going to belittle the problem or understate it, but most honorable researchers go to great pains to make sure that the treatment if the animals is as humane as is possible.

That said, I am very, very glad that the state of computer simulation is fast approaching the level where we will no longer have to rely on our animal companions for this kind of thing.

I have hope for the world, and not just because I am a science fiction writer (wanna-be).  I see mankind as becoming more responsible and mature.  We are beginning to understand our obliogation to this planet and it's fellow creatures.  They are our charges and we have a duty to them.

The very fact that here, in this forum, people from amany countries are discussing this subject is, to me, not just a wonderful portent of the future...

but a miracle in itself.


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## alex22 (Apr 21, 2006)

Although I would like Jives to be correct in his assumption of the advancements in computer simulation, it may be a long way off. I signed the petition because like it or not this type of research needs to be done.

I've read on this thread people citing examples where animal testing has gone wrong. Now, I would assume that research scientists are intelligent human beings. Does anyone think they would continue doing this if it was proven to be a waste of time? or that the danger out-weighed the overall benefits?

For clarity sake I am not talking about the testing of shampoo etc. I am talking about the testing of lifesaving medicines. I have a close family member who suffers with CF ( Cystic Fibrosis ). If the only way to help her is to test a potentially lethal concoction on a few lab rats, then I say do it.

I think that if you are against animal testing perhaps you should give up meat as well. I hardly think that breeding an animal for the sole purpose of killing it and eating it is much more humane than doing testing on it, where (as Jives says) they take great pains to ensure humane conditions are enforced. 

In summary I apologise if my views are offensive but I believe that until a viable solution is reached, we must consider our own race before worrying over lab rats.


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## Stenevor (Apr 21, 2006)

I havent signed. From a quick glance at the page it makes no distinction between lifesaving tests and medical tests. For all I know they are testing cosmetic surgery which Im quite sure the world could do without. Do they still test on monkeys? I dont think I could ever approve of that.

Just had a deeper look into it, I find the video on one of the petitions linked sites pretty disturbing. Shots of happy dogs in cages with waggy tales cutting to sick babies in hospital. Im sure the anti testing group use similar tactics though.


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## jackokent (Apr 22, 2006)

alex22 said:
			
		

> I think that if you are against animal testing perhaps you should give up meat as well. I hardly think that breeding an animal for the sole purpose of killing it and eating it is much more humane than doing testing on it,


 
In no way could I find your extreemly vaild views offensive.  I agree, and yet I do eat meat.  I take great pains to ensure I know how the animal is reared and slaughtered, living in the countryside that's very easy for me.  The animals I eat live good lives, but no, it's never nice to be slaughtered and in that way I am probably a terrible hypocrite.  I must accept that most of us, well me at least, are not entirely true to thier beliefs.  For example, i hate the issue of global warming but I sometimes use my car frivolously and don't always remember to reclye.  Doesn't that mean I should give up the beliefs because I am not perfect?

I don't condem anyone for signing this petition.  I am sure scientist are in the main reaonable, as is every else.  I can't deny there is evidence that testing is useful in some part.  I don't think people are being evil to do this.  I just don't like it. It smacks of torture and that feels abhorant.

I've used drugs that are tested on animals of course and probably also household products that are.  But I can't get round the issue that I can't stand the thought of it.  

You also ask "Does anyone think they would continue doing this if it was proven to be a waste of time? or that the danger out-weighed the overall benefits?"  Yes I do.  I think people do experiement for the sake of experimentation.  Not for evil reaons but as a facet of mankind's curiosity.  I think many things that mankind spend a lot of time and money on is definately proven to be a nonesense, but it continues.  Just look at the money spent the Millenium Dome, or on developing land mines (oh no another thread coming on).

I also make a distinction between different animals.  More intelligent animals are going to have a rougher time of it.  Just caging a monkey is going to be a form of torture in itself.  I am not sure rats would be that bothered. 

So possibly everyone who signs this is just less hypocritical than me.  Even so I stand by it.  It's a testomy to this site that such an emotive subject can be discussed so sensibly.


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## GrownUp (Apr 27, 2006)

Do you ever get the feeling that the world is going mad?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4932188.stm


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## CarlottaVonUberwald (Jun 22, 2006)

firslty onloine petitions are not legally recognised
also whilst i genreally don't agree with medical puposes i would also like that to state that until im willing to replace the animal then for medical purposes i will agree with it. and i honestly dont feel that unless you fancy replacing the animal its fair for you t osay your against medical testing


but again there are so many opinions on this ... and  i hope that my blunt way of stating stuff hssn't offended


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