# Microsoft Office/LibreOffice



## Mouse (Dec 12, 2017)

Ok, my laptop is _dying_. I need my laptop for work as I mostly work from home, as well as for writing. I've been given a John Lewis voucher from work for Christmas so I can put this towards a laptop. (Thinking of this one: Buy Lenovo YOGA 300-11IBR Laptop, Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 64GB EMMC, 11.6" Touch Screen, Snow White | John Lewis Any good? It's literally the cheapest 64gb one on there). 

These things don't come with Office now, which is infuriating because not everybody is loaded! So... as I can't afford Microsoft Office, I'd like to know if anybody has any experience with LibreOffice? Is it any good? Will I still be able to work on edits from my publishers with it? (Publishers use 'track changes') and will I still be able to work on Excel spreadsheets from my day job?

Help!


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## HanaBi (Dec 12, 2017)

Both LibreOffice and Apache OpenOffice are both excellent alternatives to Microsoft Office, and are fully compatible.

Because they're open source they're both free, along with any subsequent updates. (I currently use Open Office 4.1.4, and have never had any issues using Excel spreadsheets with the exception of one or two complex ones that use VBA macros)

One word about your choice of laptop. The Intel Celeron isn't the fastest processor in the world, and you may struggle with only 4Gb of RAM onboard, especially when you've got a number of spreadsheets open along with any email and internet browsers running concurrently; the keyboard and monitor are budget quality too.

That said, it does what you want it to do for general activity; but expect slow performance when you have several applications open.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 12, 2017)

I find Libreoffice much poorer than Microsoft and a right pain to transfer between computers on libre and those on office (but fine on a computer with both).

My kid's school allows us 5 computers on the full Microsoft office for homeworks. I've told her she can never leave - I was so relieved to get Office's full functionality back.


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## J-Sun (Dec 12, 2017)

I use LibreOffice 5 (5.2.0.4) and I'm happy with it. As HanaBi says, there are (or were) some problems with some of the more advanced macro/scripting functionality (which I don't use) but, otherwise, you shouldn't have any problems and, indeed, you can't beat the price. Download it and try it. If it works for you, you're set. If it doesn't, you haven't lost anything aside from a little time.

Oh, yeah, to address a specific point, LO does have the "track changes" feature.

(Agree about the specs/price on the laptop, too - I wouldn't be eager to get that, myself. Gotta be a better deal somewhere.)


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 12, 2017)

Since i am also laptop buying (with a bit of a budget since it's for work-work primarily) what should I be looking for? (I'm hoping this isn't a thread hijack but will help Mouse, too). I work mainly on word and spreadsheets but also complete online reports and need multiple windows open.


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## Abernovo (Dec 12, 2017)

I adore LibreOffice. It is compatible, but does sometimes mess up the formatting between it and MS Office. You need to double check it if you open it later in MS Office.

Other than that, I prefer it to MS O, as it's cleaner, and set out like the old version, say Office 95/97.
It opens spreadsheets but, again, the tracking and formatting can sometimes be a bit off between programs. It's not always as friendly towards Excel as it is towards Word, in my experience, but generally hasn't been too bad.

I use a Lenovo Miix for out-and-about work (John Lewis sell a similar one). It's a tablet-laptop hybrid, where the screen detaches to become a tablet. Not the most powerful, but it handles Libre easily. As a 'tablet', it was also able to download MS Office (mobile) free of charge* (Word mobile, Excel Mobile, Powerpoint mobile), which allows me to check and edit on a cut-down version, so that I can make any changes at the last minute. Or read manuscripts on. 

Not suggesting you get one, as the Miix is very basic, but used as an example of options in terms of MS Office and LibreOffice.
Re specs, if you can stretch a little bit more, Medion (the budget arm of Lenovo, but always had good experiences with them) sell better-spec computers for not much more, and do free shipping.

*Not sure how long that luxury will last.


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## Overread (Dec 12, 2017)

I've used libre and I find that working on its own its great, the issues come when you have to cross things over from that to office and then back again. Most things work, some don't, some require jumping through hoops. Thus if you're regularly having to transfer stuff between two different software packages then you might find yourself going slightly nuts as you try to get it right; and never trusting the conversion. 

For work as you work from home have you considered asking if work can provide you with access to a licence for office so that you can continue to work at home? That might be one viable avenue to allow you to continue performing and working at your best whilst using the correct compatible software.


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## Overread (Dec 13, 2017)

Also I just saw a random online add - Office is something like £10 a month at present. If its for work and writing that would seem to me to be a justifiable expense. Of course I appreciate that you might be living close enough to the line that £10 a month is a big ask at present for you.


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## Brian G Turner (Dec 13, 2017)

I tried to move over to OpenOffice, and set it up for the kids, too. But it always felt basic in comparison to Word and the kids hated it - I ended up installing an old licence for Word for them.

I would also echo Hannbi's concern about specs - I was recently looking for a Windows laptop for my mother-in-law, and my finding was that they only really got decent above £300.


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## Dave (Dec 13, 2017)

I don't work for Google but if you don't need to use Microsoft software you can buy a Chrome laptop at a very reasonable price. The downside is that, a little like Apple products default to Safari and Mac programs, you can *only* access the internet using Chrome, and you have to use Google Drive, Google Sheets, Docs and Slides. However, they are all compatible with the best-selling versions of those applications. I can't answer any of the questions regarding publishers though.

Another thought - I'm still using a version of Word that I bought outright, rather than this Office 365 rent-each-year business. There is little difference really between a doc file and a docx file and they are generally compatible, in fact, I really miss some functions of the much older versions of Word, such as the one that would abridge work down to a specific word count. Anyhow, can you not pick up an older copy of Word from somewhere like a charity shop?

Edit: sorry, just realised Brian already made that last suggestion. I'm sure you must have an old version of Word with spare licenses somewhere in the bottom of a drawer.


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## DrMclony (Dec 13, 2017)

Just to answer a question, I have always had track changes work fine when I open in libre. But I also dislike them immensely, because I am a bit old fashioned and find a hard copy bleeding red ink to be much better.


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## HanaBi (Dec 13, 2017)

The following site is one of my hardware bibles, and I find it immensely helpful when recommending personal kit for clients.

The following link gives a good all-round opinion of your proposed laptop. The general consensus being is that it is fine as a secondary machine for doing the basics while on the train, plane or lounging on the sofa; but start loading up memory/processor-hungry apps and it will go on a go-slow: It will get you there... eventually!


Lenovo Yoga 300: An inexpensive hybrid laptop-tablet which skimps on screen quality


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

Thank you, everyone, very helpful.

I should've specified, sorry, but I can _only_ buy it from John Lewis. I have a £150 voucher and I cannot afford to buy a laptop anywhere else without that helping me! 

@Abernovo the one you've linked to is out of stock! 

Can anybody recommend a decent (or semi-decent!) one from John Lewis that's preferably under £300? This might be impossible.

Then I'll go for the LibreOffice, I think.


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## Abernovo (Dec 13, 2017)

Mouse said:


> Can anybody recommend a decent (or semi-decent!) one from John Lewis that's preferably under £300? This might be impossible.


The one you found is probably it, under £300. If you _can_ go slightly over that range there is this. Still 4GB memory, but it is an i3 processor, which is better. Hard Disk Drive, instead of SSD, which makes it heavier. But, interim measures, until you can afford more.


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

Why are they all so expensive?  And they never last very long, anyway! Grr. Thanks, Aber.


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## Jo Zebedee (Dec 13, 2017)

Mouse said:


> Why are they all so expensive?  And they never last very long, anyway! Grr. Thanks, Aber.


Believe it or not the computer I'm replacing is 15 years old! It's only cos Vistas security upgrades are ending that I'm upgrading.


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

Overread said:


> For work as you work from home have you considered asking if work can provide you with access to a licence for office so that you can continue to work at home? That might be one viable avenue to allow you to continue performing and working at your best whilst using the correct compatible software.



I've just read this again. This is a good idea, @Overread, thanks! They won't buy a laptop for me as it's in my contract that I need to provide my own, but I might be able to wangle the software.


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## HanaBi (Dec 13, 2017)

Mouse said:


> Thank you, everyone, very helpful.
> 
> I should've specified, sorry, but I can _only_ buy it from John Lewis. I have a £150 voucher and I cannot afford to buy a laptop anywhere else without that helping me!
> 
> ...



It's a great shame you can't stretch your budget to £350 because this is pretty decent both review-wise and spec-wise. It has the all important 8Gb of RAM, a duel Intel processor, plenty of USB2.0 and 3.0 ports, a 1TB hard drive and a 15.6 inch screen; windows 10 64bit (but no CD/DVD rom drive, and doesn't have a touchscreen)

Buy HP Laptop, Intel Celeron, 8GB RAM, 1TB, 15.6" | John Lewis

Or if you can't stretch to that there's this dedicated Chromebook at £299 (more of a notebook than laptop, hence its smaller screen size and weight); but again it only has 4Gb of memory, which should be sufficient since it is not running Windows as an OS; and you can install LibreOffice onto a Google Chrome OS

Buy ASUS Chromebook Flip C101PA, 4GB RAM, 16GB eMMC Flash, 10.1" Touch Screen, Silver | John Lewis


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

Thank you! Will have a good look at all suggestions.


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## Overread (Dec 13, 2017)

Just a thought, does it have to be a laptop? Generally speaking you get more for your money with a desktop; though I can understand its easier to keep data on a single machine if you're taking it into work, esp if work doesn't have work stations for you to work on (or only has a limited number and thus its not ideal to have to rely on them day to day).


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

It's just easier with a laptop.


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## Pwaa (Dec 13, 2017)

I use Libre at home (on both Linux and Windows) and find it's absolutely fine, however not as good as MS Word.  But with Word being so expensive now, the slight extra quality is not worth that price tag.

Besides, just download Libre, and uninstall if you don't like it, that's the beauty of free software.

And there is one other alternative that I would never suggest, and that is looking into way to acquire Word which might bend the law a little.


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## Nick B (Dec 13, 2017)

@Mouse you can afford ms office. Do you have an eBay account? If not, get one.

Look up Microsoft Office 2016 you will he able to buy a license key from an oem pc that never installed ms Office. Look for one from a decently rated seller (there are plenty) make sure they state it is unused, and that they supply the download link from the Microsoft site.
This is all legal and I have done this multiple times for people.

The last office 2016 license I bought cost £3.99 and it is the complete suite, licensed for 1 computer.

Edit- it is a lifetime license too, don't even concider an office 365 sub.


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## Nick B (Dec 13, 2017)

If you need any help, I will find one for you.


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

Oh awesome, thanks Nick! I do have an eBay account.


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## Glitch (Dec 13, 2017)

I personally would stay away from Celeron/Atom processors. But unfortunately i3's and above would be more expensive. eBuyer have two HP i3's listed for around £299. Although that won't work with your John Lewis voucher.

Microsoft Office online is free if you have a hotmail/outlook account. You need to be online to use it, which is the same as Google docs.


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## Nick B (Dec 13, 2017)

If teh lappy is just for work, Acer make good woork horses for cheap prices, just dont expect speed or gaming.

I have been using an Acer Aspire  (the smaller screen one, think its 11 inch or something) for two years before getting another desktop, and it is a solid little netbook, and still going strong. Think it was around £299 or so when I got it. It has an i3 processor, so its a nice little beast. Also very compact for travelling, but has a well spaced keyboard.


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## Mouse (Dec 13, 2017)

I'm leaning towards the one Aber suggested at the mo, I think, but not 100% yet!

Laptop's literally just used for work, writing, and watching TV.


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## AlexH (Dec 13, 2017)

I see you've already picked LibreOffice over OpenOffice - the latter is basically a less-often updated version of the former, so good choice.

I use LibreOffice. I've never had any issues opening Excel files, or saving as Excel files, then opening them in Excel. I haven't done anything complicated spreadsheet-wise in LibreOffice Calc though - like pivot tables or complicated formulas.

LibreOffice Writer is fine. Sometimes I've noticed slight formatting changes when opening Writer files in Word e.g. something right-aligned to a tab won't be in the right place. You can track changes and view comments, but I find Google Docs a lot easier for this - unless there are some settings I don't know about, longer comments in LibreOffice are awkward, as I have to scroll within a small box.

Google Docs is also free, and available offline if you use Google Chrome and install the Google Docs Offline extension.



Jo Zebedee said:


> Believe it or not the computer I'm replacing is 15 years old! It's only cos Vistas security upgrades are ending that I'm upgrading.


I've recently replaced a very old Windows XP PC, that still works quite well. Albeit it is rather slow for demanding tasks like Photoshop and lots of Chrome browser tabs.



HanaBi said:


> Or if you can't stretch to that there's this dedicated Chromebook at £299 (more of a notebook than laptop, hence its smaller screen size and weight); but again it only has 4Gb of memory, which should be sufficient since it is not running Windows as an OS; and you can install LibreOffice onto a Google Chrome OS
> 
> Buy ASUS Chromebook Flip C101PA, 4GB RAM, 16GB eMMC Flash, 10.1" Touch Screen, Silver | John Lewis


If the 10.1" screen isn't too small - it might not be ideal for spreadsheets. Larger Chromebook screens are available.


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## mosaix (Dec 18, 2017)

Dave said:


> Anyhow, can you not pick up an older copy of Word from somewhere like a charity shop?
> 
> Edit: sorry, just realised Brian already made that last suggestion. I'm sure you must have an old version of Word with spare licenses somewhere in the bottom of a drawer.



Interesting, Dave. I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this on Windows 10. My old version of word refuses to load on Windows 10.


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## AlexH (Dec 18, 2017)

mosaix said:


> Interesting, Dave. I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this on Windows 10. My old version of word refuses to load on Windows 10.


Windows 10 has a compatibility mode.

Type the name of the software in the taskbar search box (if you can't see it, just start typing) and right-click > View file location (or find it in the taskbar menu and right-click > more > file location). Then right-click the resulting file that was found > Properties > Compatibility tab > there should be a greyed out box you can enable to select previous versions of Windows.


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## mosaix (Dec 18, 2017)

Thanks Alex. When I said 'load' I should have said 'install'. Windows 10 refuses to install it.


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## AlexH (Dec 18, 2017)

mosaix said:


> Thanks Alex. When I said 'load' I should have said 'install'. Windows 10 refuses to install it.


What version do you have? Do you get an error message?

According to Microsoft, Office 2007 and later should install on Windows 10. I know people have had no problems installing older versions. Here's someone who installed Windows 95: Microsoft Teases Me ... and a Few Minor Changes in Windows 10 - Thurrott.com


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## Dave (Dec 18, 2017)

mosaix said:


> Interesting, Dave. I'd be interested to know if anyone has done this on Windows 10. My old version of word refuses to load on Windows 10.


That's probably the case. It is why I didn't upgrade from Windows 8.1.

@Nick B says he can get it to work though, unless he is talking about using other Operating Systems.


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## Nick B (Dec 18, 2017)

Upgrade to win 10, there's really no reason not to. You can still upgrade for free too, dm me if you need info. 

If you are struggling with upgrades and can stretch to the princely sum of £20 or so, you can buy an original win 10 disc and unused legal licence key for that too.


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## Dave (Dec 18, 2017)

To be honest, I always struggle with OS upgrades, so if it works then I rather not break it.


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## J Riff (Dec 19, 2017)

I use Office 2000, from a disc, it works perfectly. Any older version will, I expect, because all tis is a word processor? Unless u use fancy excel or whatever else it is they have bundled in there. You certainly deserve better than freeware. )


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## Mouse (Dec 19, 2017)

My new laptop arrived today (I went for the one @Abernovo recommended) but I'm in the office, so it's been diverted to the post office - I'll collect it tomorrow. I think I'm going to go for Microsoft Office - @Nick B was kind enough to send me a link.


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## DrMclony (Dec 21, 2017)

J Riff said:


> I use Office 2000, from a disc, it works perfectly. Any older version will, I expect, because all tis is a word processor? Unless u use fancy excel or whatever else it is they have bundled in there. You certainly deserve better than freeware. )


which is why I don't use word... (sorry, that was uncalled for...) We all have our preferred program, and if we can't run it on a new OS, it really sucks...


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## J Riff (Dec 21, 2017)

I keep forgetting about 64 bit ... still on 32 here.


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## Mouse (Dec 22, 2017)

Ok, so the new laptop is HORRIFIC!! It's _so_ slow. I bought it to replace my old laptop because it keeps freezing up and going slow but my god, it's freaking amazing compared to this Lenovo thing!!

HELP! 

Windows 10 is all kinds of vile. I use it at work and hate it there too. Why is everything so geared towards people who use tablets and the like? GAH! The screen is really dull, so I thought I'd go to the settings to try to brighten it up, but it takes several seconds for the start menu to come up and when it does, I can't actually type anything into the search bar! 

Any ideas on how to speed this thing up and make it actually usable? Please?


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## Nick B (Dec 22, 2017)

Remove all the lenovo bloatware that you possibly can. Other than that... I'm afraid I'm really not a fan of Lenovo stuff. On the budget end of laptops (because sadly under 500 quid is budget in laptops, which is insane as you can have a very, very good desktop for that price) Acer are far better. 
Its basically all down to processor speed and ram. My 300 quid acer had a core i3 processor and 4 gig of ram and its pretty quick. It is only 11 inch screen though. 

I recently got a sub 300 quid 15 inch acer for the guy I care for, that's a dual core amd cpu with 4gb ram and it's OK. Not as fast as mine but OK. 

Sorry I can't be any help speeding it up, apart from suggesting you remove all the rubbish software you will never need.


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## Mouse (Dec 22, 2017)

Yep, currently removing as much as I can. Ta!


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## mosaix (Dec 31, 2017)

AlexH said:


> What version do you have? Do you get an error message?
> 
> According to Microsoft, Office 2007 and later should install on Windows 10. I know people have had no problems installing older versions. Here's someone who installed Windows 95: Microsoft Teases Me ... and a Few Minor Changes in Windows 10 - Thurrott.com



Okay, I got round to trying this. The version I have is Office 2000. 

I tried to re-install it again. Several messages relating to .dll register errors. Previously I had abandoned the installation at this stage. This time is used the 'ignore' option and the installation completed.

Both Word and Excel seem to run without problem. I'll try them both in depth over the next few days and keep my eyes for any spurious errors.

Thanks, Alex.


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