# Celts in America Before Columbus?



## WizardofOwls (Jan 3, 2006)

I seem to remember reading somewhere that evidence had been found to suggest that Celts had visited America before Columbus got here. Can anybody suggest any good books or webistes where I can read some more about this?

Thanks In Advance!
Wiz


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## fallenstar (Jan 29, 2006)

I only heard about how the Chinese were there before Columbus....but Celts? that would be interesting..


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## cornelius (Jan 29, 2006)

there have been found some ancient drawings of people with beards, while the Native americans can't grow beards. that's one proof.


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## kyektulu (Jan 29, 2006)

*I read you post and was quite intrigued about it I found this site, apparently there is evidence of the Japenese, Romans and even Egyptians discovering America before Columbus...

Check out this link:  http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa080700a.htm
*


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## Thunderchild (Jan 30, 2006)

So so far theres been alegedly the Japanese, Romans , Egyptians, Celts Chinese, Vikings and Carthaginians visiting North America and the Australian Aboarigonals vistiting the South - whow getting crowded


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## Cosmo (Jan 30, 2006)

cool link


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## Esioul (Jan 31, 2006)

I wouldn't take all those ideas too seriously- at elast, take them with a pinch of salt. The evidence seems to be limited. I have heard of Vikings going to Canda, and I concede that may have been possible.


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## Brian G Turner (Jan 31, 2006)

I believe there's a story of Welsh monks making the journey...

Cocaine found in mummified Egyptians - if true - suggests that there has been trade with the Americas for thousands of years. Though possibly because of the extent and danger of the journey, there were only very limited attempts to actually settle it (ie, Leif Erickson).

So the Americas were already "discovered" - just unknown to European governments of the mediavel period until Columbus took a wrong turn looking for India.


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## cornelius (Jan 31, 2006)

I've heard the story about the Welsh monks too, they went of to the see in their small 1 person boats ( fleeing, looking for new lands to convert or were they just meditating? I can't remember) .


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## edott (Jan 31, 2006)

There is real archelogical evidence for the Vikings. the story about the Welsh if i remember right was a welsh prince murdoc,something like that, went with several hundred followers. The rumors of a blue eyed tribe in north America was something people were looking for in the 18th century. supposed to be the descendents of the welsh prince.
yes their has been found some japanese pottery in washington state withen indian villages but that is thought to have been probably left by ship wrecked fisherman.

stories even of the king of mali sending an expedition west which never returned.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jan 31, 2006)

There was a Welsh prince by the name of Madoc who was supposed to have  settled with some of his followers somewhere in the southern US in, I think, the 12th century.  

I first came across the theory in a fantasy novel: _Excalibur_, by Sanders Anne Laubenthal.  In no way to be confused with the movie of the same name.  It takes place in Mobile Alabama, presumably in the 1970's when it was published, although it's not at all a 1970's sort of book.  It's probably very much out of print now, but it has a sort of Charles Williams mystical Christianity feel to it, which I think you might like, Wizard.

And here's what a Google search on Prince Madoc turned up:  

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Prince+Madoc+++America&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

edit:  It looks like edott slipped in with the reference while I was off checking the spelling of Laubenthal.


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## Adasunshine (Jan 31, 2006)

Not really anything to do with post but why do people automatically dismiss the Welsh as Celts??? They are some of the truest Celts out there and have a history spanning centuries not to mention one of the oldest languages in the world.

The Scots & Irish get all the credit...

Sorry, get a bit protective of little Wales. I'm half welsh myself!

Carry on

Administrator may want to move this to the vent and rant thread!!!!  

xx


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## Cyril (Feb 1, 2006)

About europeans in America, I watched a report on tv yesterday where it was said that genetic markers proved that 25 percent of native american's ancestors came from prehistoric Europe and of course 75 percent from prehistoric Asia.

I knew for Vikings (with -- that's true -- archeological evidences) and for Chinese (Of memory, it's almost half a century before Colombus) and for rumors about ancient Egyptians. But it's the first time I hear Celts discovered America.


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## Esioul (Feb 3, 2006)

Vikings reached Canada, but were not very successful in settling there.


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## kyektulu (Feb 3, 2006)

Esioul said:
			
		

> Vikings reached Canada, but were not very successful in settling there.



*Im not suprised its too cold.*


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## Esioul (Feb 6, 2006)

Yes, brrrrr, and too far away from home for them, too. I think they just died out.


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## nati (Apr 21, 2009)

There are stories of a North Dakoda tribe thar had blue eyes. lewis and clark described a fair skun tribe in their journals unfortunatly the tribe was wiped out by small pox arrounf 1840


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## Wiglaf (Apr 21, 2009)

There is a story of St. Brendan(sp?) who sailed to American in a leather hide boat common to Ireland.  It was proved that such a boat could make the journey. Vikings, the land bridge, and people sailing across the Bering Strait are the only ones with archeological evidence as far as I know.


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## Happy Joe (Apr 21, 2009)

There are also numerous alleged examples of Ogham, here in NA, and a few underground chambers that could be due to Celtic influence (from their construction and orientation (no age information established/available).
Naturally it is considered "fringe" by the entrenched authorities...

Enjoy!


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## Urlik (Apr 21, 2009)

there have been some recent finds of European style flint spear heads in North America that have been dated back to the last ice age.

it is quite possible that neolithic hunters crossed the ice bridge over the North Atlantic (apparently it reached down as far as France) and it would have been possible for them to hunt seals along the way (in the same way that Eskimos still do on the ice flows today)


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## Drachir (Apr 22, 2009)

kyektulu said:


> *Im not suprised its too cold.*



Actually historical accounts describe attacks on the Viking settlements by people referred to as Scraelings, but who were probably native Canadians.  And as for cold, are we forgetting that the Vikings colonized Iceland?


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## Peter Graham (Apr 22, 2009)

Good point, Drachir.

There is no doubt that the Vikings did have a colony in Canada. It's on Newfoundland, at a place called L'Anse Aux Meadows (I think). The norse sagas talk about it and credit its discovery to "Lucky" Leif Eriksson. Strangely, they called it "Vinland", which (as the name suggests) means "land of the vines" - not a very good description of anywhere exposed to the Labrador current, so perhaps they also visited other places further south.

I'm not sure about the Prince Madoc thing. If he had gone lock, stock and barrel, you'd expect to see at least some reference to it in the ancient Welsh poems and, as far as I'm aware, there aren't any. And how on earth would he have got so many people there? It all smacks of the whole "lost tribe" mythology, which right up to the 16th Century had people believing that somewhere in deepest Africa was an undiscovered nation of lost Christians, led by a chap called Prester John.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if small groups of Welsh and Irish monks in their coracles had been to North America pre-Columbus. When Columbus set off, European fishing boats were already exploiting the Grand Banks - I believe that there is a pre-Columbus Dutch map of that vague area with the Grand Banks marked as "the sea of the English".

My guess is that Columbus knew about America, but didn't know how far south it stretched. I think he was hoping to sail round the bottom and then find more exciting places like India or China!

Regards,

Peter


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## Drachir (Apr 23, 2009)

Over the years there has been a good deal of speculation regarding the discovery of the Americas prior to Columbus.  Certainly the Vikings beat him to it and some like Norwegian writer Thor Heyerdahl believed that the ancient Egyptians may have made it first.  And then there are the numerous "proofs" in the link submitted by Kyektulu.  The problem with such postulations is that they are based on very dubious evidence and thus have been rejected by most historians and archaeologists.  

One point that is frequently overlooked is that this is a sort of "Who cares?" debate. If you discover something (as in the case of the Vikings - or maybe even the Celts, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Chinese, etc.), _*but you don't tell anyone about it *_then the discovery is useless.  And that is why Columbus gets the credit.  After blundering into the Americas by mistake he sailed back to Spain and claimed "Mission accomplished."  He was about as accurate as Mr. Bush by the way.


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## Peter Graham (Apr 23, 2009)

I've just watched an old documentary called Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, and, rather worryingly, it appears that we have all been barking up the wrong tree.  It transpires that the Americans actually discovered _us _a couple of hundred years before Columbus was even born.

I am going out into my garden tonight to look for archaeological evidence of 12th Century Hershey bars and early medieval "fanny packs".....

Regards,

Peter


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## Yatista (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm halfway through a book, "America BC" by Barry Fell which makes a pretty strong case for Celts (and others) visiting and staying in the Americas around 500 BC.  Printed in 1975, might be hard to find, but very interesting.  Just googled it, still available on Amazon.  Lots of other references on the subject as well.


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## jojajihisc (Sep 11, 2009)

Esioul said:


> I wouldn't take all those ideas too seriously- at elast, take them with a pinch of salt. The evidence seems to be limited. I have heard of Vikings going to Canda, and I concede that may have been possible.


 
I was going to say something similar albeit facetiously. Afterall, those political boundaries are not quite that old.


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## Sparrow (Sep 11, 2009)

There's also a legend of a Chinese explorer touching ground in California... centuries before the birth of Christ.

http://www.inn-california.com/articles/history/chinesecalifornia.html


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## Dave (Sep 11, 2009)

Drachir said:


> One point that is frequently overlooked is that this is a sort of "Who cares?" debate. If you discover something (as in the case of the Vikings - or maybe even the Celts, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Chinese, etc.), _*but you don't tell anyone about it *_then the discovery is useless.


The Church of the Latter Day Saints believe that Joseph Smith dug up some ancient Gold plates in 1823 on a hill in New York, inside a buried box. Smith said they had been protected there for centuries by the Angel Moroni, and that they were written in Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphs.

I'd say that would be fairly conclusive evidence, if it only weren't for the fact that he gave the plates back to the Angel after he copied them into the Book of Mormon.


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## Dave (Sep 11, 2009)

Sparrow said:


> There's also a legend of a Chinese explorer touching ground in California... centuries before the birth of Christ.


I can find it easier to believe that one. But ever finding any real evidence is very unlikely.


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## Drachir (Sep 12, 2009)

Dave said:


> The Church of the Latter Day Saints believe that Joseph Smith dug up some ancient Gold plates in 1823 on a hill in New York, inside a buried box. Smith said they had been protected there for centuries by the Angel Moroni, and that they were written in Reformed Egyptian hieroglyphs.
> 
> I'd say that would be fairly conclusive evidence, if it only weren't for the fact that he gave the plates back to the Angel after he copied them into the Book of Mormon.




Well, the angel wasn't called Moroni for nothing.


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