# Photo Challenge Discussion - October



## Vertigo

This thread is for discussion of the Monthly Photo Challenge. Please keep all discussion about the photos posted in that thread here.

The current challenge - October - can be found here: http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/529003-october-2010-photo-challenge.html


----------



## Culhwch

And a very challenging challenge it is, too! I've got some ideas, but I may have to buy some props. I shall think on this awhile longer...


----------



## Vertigo

As I said on the September thread; I apologise ahead of time if I don't manage to post any entries on this one. It's not a cop out, honest; I will be working 7 days a week 10-12 hours a day or more for the next two months .

And yes Cul I'm just hoping it is not too challenging . I think it could be quite tough but from what I've already seen with how folk here have used such imagination to interpret the various challenges, I am hoping it could be very interesting. 

Also I think there are many interpretations that could be made so please don't feel confined by the couple of pointers that I gave in the first post.

And now I really want to try and do something myself (no idea yet what ). I just have to find the time! Aaaarg!


----------



## Sephiroth

Congrats on your September win, Vertigo, and on being the first person to win back-to-back challenges outright (Leisha did it, but the second of those was a joint win with two others, IIRC, and so she didn't choose the theme for the next month).  

I loved your entries again -- so much so that I voted for them... _again_.  


I'm really sorry I didn't get to enter, but I struggled to find the time with everything that's been going on (I was away for a week over FantasyCon, for one thing).  No doubt at least one of my entries would have been of minerals from my collection, and likely not inspiring enough to garner votes.  

This new theme is very interesting.  I think you're right that it could be tough, but that's the meaning of 'challenge', after all, and I dare say we're running out of simpler ideas -- this contest is more than two years old, now (which itself is a testament to both the creativity and staying power of our members ).  

I would _really _like to get back into these challenges in a participatory sense, although rest assured that I always register my vote, even if I'm not around much and don't get to enter.


----------



## StormFeather

Congratulations on the deserved win Vertigo!

And a great theme for this month. I have an idea already, but it relies on the willing co-operation of my cats. . . . . . .

to be honest, I'm doubtful.


----------



## The Procrastinator

Inkeresting! Getting ideas...


----------



## Talysia

Hmm - an interesting and challenging idea, although nothing springs to mind for me right now.  I'm glad I've got a while yet to think something up!

I'll go and put my thinking cap on.


----------



## Vertigo

Thanks folks and I really do hope people don't find it too hard. I have actually had a couple of ideas now, but I just don't know if I'm going to have time, also one of them requires somthing that we just don't tend to have in the countryside up here...


----------



## Mouse

I saw something perfect for this just now when I was out with pup. Took a photo with my mobile phone and put it on the computer when I got home and it's all blurred!


----------



## Vertigo

It's always worth taking two or three shots, especially if not using a tripod,  against just that possibility. It can be hard to spot that sort of thing on the small phone/camera screens.


----------



## Mouse

Yeah, my phone lets you zoom in on the image after you take it and I did that and it didn't look too bad. It's really bright out today though and I couldn't hardly see the screen anyway! That's my excuse... I might be able to get out and take a pic again anyway. Just need to charge my camera up!


----------



## TheDustyZebra

Hmm...I can see that this is going to do the same thing to me that the "same/different" one did, which is to make me start seeing the dichotomy of everything.


----------



## Vertigo

Well I've managed to dive out and get a couple of shots! Hope they're not too cryptic for you


----------



## TheDustyZebra

Ohh, very nice, Vertigo! I like your stile.


----------



## Vertigo

Thank you TDZ though on its own it doesn't make much sense for the theme; it really needs the first image to make sense of it.

I liked yours and Mouse's - I never really thought of us and them as human and animal but it makes absolute sense.


----------



## TheDustyZebra

I don't know, the stile makes perfect sense to me for "us and them"--it's to keep "them" on one side or the other while allowing "us" to move freely. It quite literally separates "us" and "them".

Oh, and I don't have anything posted yet, that's Procrastinator's critter.


----------



## Teresa Edgerton

My first thought when looking at Vertigo's pair of photos was that the barbed wire is there to keep random passersby ("them") out, while the stile exists for the purpose of allowing neighbors ("us") to visit back and forth.


----------



## Vertigo

Ooops sorry Procrastinator, I knew that... just typed the wrong name 

TDZ and Teresa: interesting Your ideas are close but not quite what I had in mind (which sort of suggests I didn't get it quite right). The idea was that the first one represents Us and Them in conflict; war, fences to keep us apart, etc. emphasised by the blood (Halloween "Vampire Blood" by the way ). And the second is Us and Them in harmony, with the stile crossing the fence that separates as. 

A touch too ambitious I guess


----------



## AE35Unit

Hmmm interesting. But while I get the first few (very nice they are too) I was thrown by yours Vertigo-Affinity didnt register with me. They are very cool tho!


----------



## The Procrastinator

Been having trouble commenting as Firefox decided I was not allowed to load more than one page from the Chrons anymore! The Chrons and only the Chrons mind you, it let me access everything else. So I am having a go with Opera to see if I have better luck.

Just wanted to say, Mouse your puppy is very cute and troublesome looking, and Vertigo I particularly like your first image. To me it spoke not only of keeping Them out, but also of keeping Them in.

Mr Antenna when you say Affinity do you mean my horse image?


----------



## AE35Unit

The Procrastinator said:


> Been having trouble commenting as Firefox decided I was not allowed to load more than one page from the Chrons anymore! The Chrons and only the Chrons mind you, it let me access everything else. So I am having a go with Opera to see if I have better luck.
> 
> Just wanted to say, Mouse your puppy is very cute and troublesome looking, and Vertigo I particularly like your first image. To me it spoke not only of keeping Them out, but also of keeping Them in.
> 
> Mr Antenna when you say Affinity do you mean my horse image?



Yes it is a lovely image, also the puppy, very cute. Talking of cute I have one lined up that should make everyone go either 'Awww' or 'Simples'


----------



## Mouse

The Procrastinator said:


> Just wanted to say, Mouse your puppy is very cute and troublesome looking...



Thankies! Yes, he's definitely both of those!

AE35: A meerkat by any chance? 

Vertigo, how do you do that? Make a black and white photo with colour?!


----------



## AE35Unit

Mouse said:


> AE35: A meerkat by any chance?
> 
> !



No not a Meerkat, two Meerkats


----------



## Vertigo

Mouse said:


> Thankies! Yes, he's definitely both of those!
> 
> AE35: A meerkat by any chance?
> 
> Vertigo, how do you do that? Make a black and white photo with colour?!


 
In this case it was not too hard. In the general case you must select everything you want in mono (becomes quite hard around the edges). Then just convert that part to mono. If P Elements does not have the black and white adjustment (I think it only appeared in the most recent Photoshop) then the way to do it is to completey de-saturate the colours in the selection (Hue and Saturation) then generally add a little contrast and brightness. As I say the hard part is the selection it is ususally easier to select the part that you want to remain colour and then invert the selection. In this particular case it was a little easier because the blood is red and and there was no red in the rest of the image (just greens, browns and yellows), so the Select Colour Range can be used to get at least the initial selection which can then be refined by careful trimming of the selection. Again that feature may not be available in Elements.

The end result is possibly a bit cliched (ever since Schindlers List) but almost always carries impact.



> To me it spoke not only of keeping Them out, but also of keeping Them in


Procrastinator: I was thinking more of separating rather than keeping in or out. However that is really only semantics when it comes down to it!


----------



## Vertigo

Well AE I was waiting for one of the girlie's (I'm dead... I'm so dead) to say it first but they haven't, so I'm going to have to say it...

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww so cute


----------



## The Procrastinator

Weeeelll, a fence is for enclosure really, the separation is icing on the cake. We do use "symbolic" fences to mark territory, so civilised people send the message "please stay out of my yard unless you really want to come in and see me, in which case use the gate" rather then "keep out!". But barbed wire is not, to my mind, symbolic - its the real deal - either to imprison or forbid. Guess that's why it has impact. 

Mr Antenna: Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. Look at their little faces!


----------



## Culhwch

Someone is going to have to explain to me how a pair of meerkats and 'affinity' (mentioned twice now...) fits into the 'Us and Them' theme.

[scratches head]


----------



## Vertigo

I was a little confused too. I've just looked back and "Affinity" is actually mentioned three times. Procrastinator used it as the caption of her entry. Is it possible it has been mis-interpreted as theme?


----------



## Culhwch

I can understand it as a caption to that photo, actually - an affinity between us (humans) and them (horses). Does make sense in that instance...


----------



## The Procrastinator

OK so I don't have to explain my caption? Everyone cool with it? (It was not an attempt to hijack the theme, just an exploration of one aspect of it)

How I see the meerkat shot is:
Them - to the viewer, meerkats are "them"
Us - to the meerkats, they are clearly forming an "us"


----------



## Vertigo

Absolutely not Procrastinator I think your title enhanced the meaning of your shot perfectly!

I think it may have just been an unfortunate misunderstanding. I suspect that from AE's shot (I also made the same interpretation as you but did feel it stretched it a little) and then re-reading his earlier comment on my shot that he has misinterpreted your title as the theme. Unfortunate and an easy mistake to make but no fault lies with anyone. Titles can be very useful and in fact I thought afterwards that I should have given my shots titles 

Oh and P I really like that second one, is it a pig? It is scary how human like their eyes are (I figure that is what you are saying with this one?)


----------



## AE35Unit

The theme is Affinity, which is not so much to do with Us and Them but more about compatibility, togetherness, affection, attraction, at least thats how my Thesaurus sees the word.

EDIT, ok ignore that-I could have sworn it was *Affinity* before!


----------



## Vertigo

Ho hum - as I said easy mistake to make!


----------



## The Procrastinator

Yes it is a pig, her name is Rosa, and if it wasn't for her size and strength (making her impossible to control - ie keep out of the garden) we could let her roam freely as she's very tame and smart. When she was little she used to run around like a dog - actually she used to run around _with_ the dogs. Unfortunately I had no camera at that stage. 

But anyway the pig is a perfect example of the ambiguity possible with "us and them" style thinking. Not only are pigs capable of many of the things dogs are (and dogs are usually seen as part of the family, not quite as "them") but they share certain characteristics with humanity - size of organs for instance, making them useful for transplants, diet (they are omnivorous like we are), and as you see in the photo, eyes. They have remarkably human eyes, and because they are intelligent, when they look at you with those eyes it seems as though a person is looking at you.

Some animal libbers get quite worked up about the plight of pigs in our society and I can well understand it. We wouldn't allow dogs to be treated like that. But when it comes down to it, they taste delicious, and we are much too selfish a species to limit our own appetites (and numbers) to allow the pig to be treated with a little more "humanity".

Here endeth the lecture.


----------



## Vertigo

You're preaching to the converted here! I've had to work with pigs in my past and they are in my opinion the most intelligent domesticated animal around. And yes they frequently get treated quite atrociously, though their plight has improved in the UK of late, with the growing fashion for free range everything.


----------



## chrispenycate

I actually got an opportunity for a photo today; I had my camera with me, the dichotomy was evident (I was in the hospital for a scan, and the division between the staff – all very much a unity against the world, even if some of them are cleaners or receptionists, and others neurosurgeons – and the patients is sharp as diamond. Moreover I was half an hour early for my appointment. So I started framing and a them – armed uniformed security guard – in a hospital? – informed me quite firmly that these people  have a right to there privacy, and there'll be none of that sort of going on here, thank you sir.

I suppose if I'd been a proper journalist I would have shot a chip full under my arm, or through my beard, or something, but I wasn't so went and got themhandled…


----------



## BookStop

Oh my, Chris. I hope the guard was at the very least polite.


----------



## The Procrastinator

Hmph. I guess that guard is no respecter of photo comps on SF forums on the internet. Would've liked to see those photos!

J-wo, what I do is upload my pics to a small webspace I was allocated as part of my dial-up account, and then paste in the url as an image; others use free photo storage sites and do the same thing. 

Otherwise you might try using Irfanview to do your resizing, if you fiddle with the settings it does a great job of making the file size small while still having reasonable image quality and size (I think both the images I posted this month, while quite large space-wise, were well under 100kb file size).

Nice shots btw, nice freaky feel to them!


----------



## Culhwch

When shooting at places like a hospital, or really anywhere privately owned, you do have to be aware restrictions like that, and it's always a good idea to seek permission first if you don't know whether or not it's iffy. Even if there aren't people in the shots, there can still be restrictions on what you are allowed to shoot. And while it can seem like security guards or other officials are being heavy-handed, you do need to remember to be polite and respectful, because in the end they have a job to do, and I don't know that it's often a very pleasant one...


----------



## J-WO

Thanks, Procrastinator, I'll have to look into it. I bought a camera about an hour before it all kicked off and I couldn't figure out how to zoom with it! Because of that I didn't get as many good shots as I liked. That, and other times pointing a camera seemed to get the wrong kind of attention when the cops weren't around.

I might blog about it this weekend.


----------



## Vertigo

J-WO: I do the same as Procrastinator and load my images onto my own webspace - you nearly always have some with your internet service provider and they will generally provide some basic pages that let you upload files so you don't even have to do battle with FTP!

Chrispy: shame about that but I suspect that as Cul says the guards probably have a standing order about photos in the hospital. If you think about it it could be very distressing to some people if someone is banging away with a camera in the A&E department after a big accident. So I imagine they just have a standard no photos rule to play safe.

AE: Like your second photo AE. Nice juxtaposition between the graffitied urban architecture and the green 'countryside' through the tunnel.


----------



## AE35Unit

Vertigo said:


> AE: Like your second photo AE. Nice juxtaposition between the graffitied urban architecture and the green 'countryside' through the tunnel.


Thanks V. I was kind of thinking
 of Us as being those like me who like the countryside, greenery etc and Them who prefer concrete, graffiti and don't appreciate the greenery.


----------



## Vertigo

Exactly! That was what I thought!


----------



## The Procrastinator

I was also thinking of the graffiti itself. People sometimes use it as an "us against them" kinda thing. Good pic AE!


----------



## mosaix

So when does the comp end this month?


----------



## Culhwch

I'm about to set up the poll now...


----------



## Culhwch

Entries are now closed!​
*The rules for the voting are as follows:
*
*Any member of the Chrons may cast a vote, even if they did not enter a photo for the challenge*

*Please do not vote for yourself*

*You may only cast your vote once*

*The poll will end at 11:59 pm on the 31st of October 2010 (GMT)*

*The winner will decide the challenge theme for November! *

*Good Luck Everyone!!! *

*TO VOTE, FOLLOW THE LINK:*

*October Photography Challenge - US & THEM - Poll | Polldaddy.com (poll 3997185)*​


----------



## J Riff

Mosaix's biker gets my vote. Mouse private property looked good, and Leishas cat in bag wins the cuteness award. 
 Must be time to get a free phot-hosting place. Same for you, J-Wo, these pics look way better if you open 'em in a separate window and blow them up to size. Anyone care to suggest the best online site for free pic hostage? ..?


----------



## J-WO

J Riff said:


> Same for you, J-Wo, these pics look way better if you open 'em in a separate window and blow them up to size.



Yep, I'm kicking myself about my photo entries on many levels. The subject matter I had to work with was both exciting and ideal for this particular challenge- I got caught in the middle of a small riot for cryin' out loud!- but because I'd only just bought the camera hours before (and have never used a digital before) I didn't know how to zoom in or out! Funny really, all that technology and I had to use it like some 1890's version.

I'll call it a learning curve.


----------



## Culhwch

Actually, plenty of people spend hundreds of dollars on glass that doesn't zoom, J-WO...

Try Flickr, J Riff. I'm a pro user (i.e. paid) but I had a free account before that, and it did all I needed.


----------



## Talysia

I'm really sorry for not being able to enter this month:  my mind went blank, and then I ran out of time.  Hopefully I'll be able to redeem myself next month.  That said, there are some great entries here, some I never would've thought of for the theme - nicely done!

I especially liked Mouse's pics, as well as AE35, Leisha, J-WO and TDZ's pics, but my vote went to Mosaix for his photo of the football fans.


----------



## AE35Unit

I voted for Mosaix's Hell's Angel shot-the look on the woman's face contrasting with that of the biker said 'Us and Them' to me nicely!


----------



## mosaix

Many thanks for the votes, J Riff, Talysia and AE35unit.

I voted for AE35unit this  month. I thought the subject was well thought out.

I was at a motor bike get-together this month (hence my first picture) and thought the Portsmouth Chapter of the Hell's Angels would make an excellent shot - they looked ferocious! So ferocious in fact that I thought I'd better ask permission before taking the picture. So there I was a 64 year old middle-class guy approaching a dozen hairy-bikers - "Excuse me, but do you mind if I take a picture of you guys?". Silence, followed by smiles, then a good deal of posing - they were a bunch of softies and it totally ruined the whole thing! Next time it's a telephoto lens from 50 yards away!


----------



## StormFeather

Had a great pic of a deer, face on, eating out of my hand, but just didn't get the chance to post it - not that it would have got me anywhere as the standard of this month's entries.

Loved PC's pics, and Leisha's kittens (they look exactly like mine two did as kittens - almost to the white 'milk stain' on the lip(will scan some pics and post them when I have a chance)), and Mouse's gate post was a hot contender, until Mosaix posted the footie fans and that just swung it for me.

Hope to get something in the next challenge as I haven't managed for the last 2 months.


----------



## AE35Unit

mosaix said:


> Many thanks for the votes, J Riff, Talysia and AE35unit.
> 
> I voted for AE35unit this  month. I thought the subject was well thought out.
> 
> I was at a motor bike get-together this month (hence my first picture) and thought the Portsmouth Chapter of the Hell's Angels would make an excellent shot - they looked ferocious! So ferocious in fact that I thought I'd better ask permission before taking the picture. So there I was a 64 year old middle-class guy approaching a dozen hairy-bikers - "Excuse me, but do you mind if I take a picture of you guys?". Silence, followed by smiles, then a good deal of posing - they were a bunch of softies and it totally ruined the whole thing! Next time it's a telephoto lens from 50 yards away!



Ha, reminds me of that episode of Spongebob Squarepants where they run into a gang of bikers only to find they're called the Mild Ones!


----------



## Precise Calibre

It was a toss-up between Mouse's "Keep Out", The Procrastinator's "Affinity" and AE35Unit's "Underground Literature".  

Had to go with the horse in the end...


----------



## Mouse

So many mentions, so few votes! Heh. 

I was between PC and TP. In the end I went for The Procrastinator.


----------



## Vertigo

My short list for this month:

AE35Unit - Underground Literature
Mouse - Private Property
Mosaix - Hell's Angels and Football crowd
Precise Calibre - Tradition and Technology (Amish)

I really, _really_ struggled to choose between these. I though AE and Mouse both had powerful messages and I loved the real Us and Them feel of PC's Amish pictures. But in the end both of Mosaix's pictures really said it loudly, particularly the football crowd. I loved the yellow line of presumably police between the two sides.

So Mosaix get my vote. Sorry Mouse another mention but not a vote 

I will present my apologies for next month right now as well. I shall be watching with great interest but I consider it a virtual impossibility for me to take any pictures next month; I'll simply be working far too many hours (typical day is currently 9am - 9pm, 7 days a week ).


----------



## TheDustyZebra

While I really loved Vertigo's pictures early on, in the end I had to go with Mosaix for both of those shots.


----------



## The Procrastinator

No idea who I'm voting for yet! Hard to choose. Thanks for the mentions and the votes, wheee! Never had four votes for anything before!


----------



## StormFeather

And I believe that Congratulations are in order for Mosaix!!  Well done on a deserved win!

I look forward to seeing what this months theme will be


----------



## Culhwch

Indeed, congratulations mosaix!


----------



## The Procrastinator

How embarrassing - I didn't actually vote! In my defense I've had the gastric. And I think I would've voted for mosaix anyway - that Hell's Angel shot was hard to go past...

Congratulations Mosaix on a well deserved win!


----------



## Talysia

Congratulations, Mosaix!


----------



## Mouse

Congrats, Mosaix!


----------



## mosaix

Thanks everyone. I'm surprised that anyone voted for the "football crowd" shot. I only added as a make-weight to the hells-angel shot really. The reason why the shot is such poor quality is that it's impossible to smuggle a DLSR into a football ground these days. First, because of copyright issues and second, in case you want to throw it at the opposing goal-keeper as he goes to save a penalty!

So the shot was taken with a small, low quality digital that I could hide in my pocket.

As for this month, I came up with an idea but it may not work for everyone. 

My original idea was "Autumn Landscape". But then it occurred to me that it's not autumn in the Southern hemisphere. So my second thought was "Seasonal Landscape". Then it occurred to me that some people may live in areas where the landscape hardly varies from season to season. 

So I'd be interested in people's views on this. I'm tempted by "Seasonal Landscape" but I'm prepared to go simply with "Landscape" if people think it's fairer.

So: Views people please.

I'll wait for a day or two, if that's Okay, for people from different time zones to have their say.


----------



## TheDustyZebra

Congrats Mosaix!

Well, we're in between seasons here, landscape-wise, but I suppose that whatever it looks like at any given time, it's seasonal by definition. I'd say Seasonal Landscape is reasonable.


----------



## AE35Unit

Sounds good to me! And congrats mosaix!


----------



## Vertigo

Congratulations on a well deserved win Mosaix.

And thanks for the mention TDZ, but I agree with your final choice of Mosaix!

Congrats also to Procrastinator for a very close second place!

Re the theme, I would say 'seasonal landscape' is fine. Even in places with little seasonal variation there are generally landscapes to be found that suggest the season to you.


----------



## The Procrastinator

Seasonal landscape fine with me.

(How very exciting, I hadn't looked at the poll in days and had no idea I was coming a close second! Thanks to all who voted for me, or should I say, Romeo - what a pretty horse he is)


----------



## mosaix

The Procrastinator said:


> How very exciting, I hadn't looked at the poll in days and had no idea I was coming a close second!



It was indeed a close run thing TP.


----------



## mosaix

I'm eager to learn more about photography and gain from the experience of others. So I was wondering if other contributors thought it might be worthwhile if, after voting had finished, we gave any interesting technical details that we thought might be of interest to others.

With regards to the October challenge, I actually missed what could have been my best entry. Looking down from the window of my son's third floor flat in Brighton I saw a woman returning to her car just as meter warden placed a ticket on the windscreen. The perfect subject for 'us and them' but, by the time I'd got my camera and returned to the window, she'd driven off.

My first shot of the Hell's Angel was taken later that day at a motorbike rally on the sea front. I had the idea of a shot containing both and biker and a 'normal' member of the public but the bikes were moving around a lot, so whatever I got was going to contain an element of luck. I set the camera to take 3 frames per shot and concentrated on getting shots of bikes and riders moving in the foreground in the hope of picking up contrasting detail in the background. Only one or two shots actually contained what I wanted and one, with a bit of cropping, came up with my entry.

For my second shot I wanted something different to the first and a football game gave me the opportunity. As I've explained I had to use a different camera, hence the poor quality. I tried to get the line of yellow jacketed police to run exactly from corner to corner across the shot and it almost worked. Only after I downloaded the shot did it occur to me that the 'us and them' theme could be seen in two ways: 1) Manchester City supporters v Arsenal supporters and 2) Football supporters v The Police. 

It was also fortunate that City were playing Arsenal that day and there was a nice contrast between blue and red supporters shirts.

I suppose the lesson learnt is that you always need a bit of luck. 

Anyway thanks again to everyone that voted for me.


----------

