# The Most Underrated film of all Time?



## The Wanderer (Apr 13, 2007)

Ok I'll post 1, you may like to post a list or whatever

Ok here goes

Heaven's Gate - Micheal Cimino - 1980

It's not a perfect film perhaps, that there are images as timeless as any ever filmed, I think the set for Casper, Wyoming is the Western Set I've ever seen and it's animated in a way that doesn't seem set up like in most films.

Ok the Harvard Graduation is a phenomenal sequence, everything composed in perfect symmetry, shot through with Romanticism and faded memories of the past

Vilmos Zsigmond's (Legend) Cinematography is Immaculate, the Interiors, textures of Cotton, Leather, Wood, Golden Light, Dust, Grain etc is captured like few other films


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## The Ace (Apr 13, 2007)

My nomination would be 'Dark Star,' if they got rid of that lousy counry and western sound track.


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## j d worthington (Apr 13, 2007)

The Ace said:


> My nomination would be 'Dark Star,' if they got rid of that lousy counry and western sound track.


 
Ah, Ace, that's one of the things that makes the film... it's absolutely in line with the provincial nonsense of the ship's crew. 

"Benson, Arizona, blew warm wind through your hair / My body flies the galaxy, my heart longs to be there. / Benson, Arizona, the same stars in the sky / But they seemed so much kinder when we watched them, you and I."


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## Allegra (Apr 13, 2007)

I can't remember which film I've seen was underrated, but I've seen lots of overrated ones.


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## HardScienceFan (Apr 13, 2007)

SF/F/Horror movie,or otherwise?


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## The Wanderer (Apr 13, 2007)

HardScienceFan said:


> SF/F/Horror movie,or otherwise?



I meant any kind of movie, but S/F/Horror is you want


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## The Wanderer (Apr 13, 2007)

Allegra said:


> I can't remember which film I've seen was underrated, but I've seen lots of overrated ones.



Sounds like you've seen all of Sam Mendes Movies


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## HardScienceFan (Apr 13, 2007)

The Wanderer said:


> Sounds like you've seen all of Sam Mendes Movies


Hi Wanderer 
Later on Flemish television is showing Lynch' s 'Lost Highway'
Your recommendation
Slightly off thread,but,
value Ur opinion
Is that one underrated,BTW?
OK underrated,here goes:
Simple Plan (Raimi)
Dark city
Adaptation
EUROPEAN MOVIES:
anything by tomTykwer(e;g;.Lola rennt) is probably underrated in America,at least,seeing as that his work needs English subtitles
La Haine ("HATE")is mentioned somewhere,Vincent Cassel is in that one),brilliant,also needs subtitles
Le Pact des Loups,ditto
Last one is visually brilliant,archetypically French(and not in the TRuffaut way!),contains brilliant fight scenes,and comes with my heavy recommendaton,if that counts for something.It's a grabbag,but darnit ,it WORKS!!!!


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## williamjm (Apr 13, 2007)

HardScienceFan said:


> Le Pact des Loups,ditto
> Last one is visually brilliant,archetypically French(and not in the TRuffaut way!),contains brilliant fight scenes,and comes with my heavy recommendaton,if that counts for something.It's a grabbag,but darnit ,it WORKS!!!!



Is that "Brotherhood of the Wolf"? It's certainly the best French historical epic/martial arts/action/horror/monster movie I've seen 

Seriously, it is a very enjoyable film.


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## HardScienceFan (Apr 14, 2007)

williamjm said:


> Is that "Brotherhood of the Wolf"? It's certainly the best French historical epic/martial arts/action/horror/monster movie I've seen


Yes,my friend,it is.
Yes,the French can make enjoyable movies,perhaps even better than Hollywood,but hey,that's just my taste.Now will you believe me when I say that some of the better movies will be the ones U see with subtitles?


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## tangaloomababe (Apr 14, 2007)

I went to see Brotherhood of the Wolf at the cinema when it was released, I remember having to walk past a couple of dark alleyways in the dark, very aphrensively.  An excellent film, beautifully filmed but very scarey.  I agree with "Hard Science Fan" Its one of those movies that you have to watch with subtitles.
Another very good film, again french and beautifully filmed is A Very Long Engagement.


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## The Wanderer (Apr 14, 2007)

HardScienceFan said:


> Yes,my friend,it is.
> Yes,the French can make enjoyable movies,perhaps even better than Hollywood,but hey,that's just my taste.Now will you believe me when I say that some of the better movies will be the ones U see with subtitles?



The French have some of the Grestest Directors in the history of cinema


Francois Truffaut, Jean-Luc Godard, Alain Resnais, Louis Malle, Robert Bresson, Jean-Pierre Melville, Jean Renoir, Jean Cocteau ,Jacques Rivette, Rene Clair, Henri-Georges Clouzot , Marcel Carné, Éric Rohmer, Marcel Ophüls, Georges Méliès and
The Lumière brothers, Auguste Marie Louis Nicholas: the original founders of film

and that's before you get to modern film-makers Luc Besson, Jean Jacqcues Beneix, Jean-Pierre Jeanau, Patrice Leconte, Bertrand Blier etc

I almost forgot alot of the greatest filmmakers of other countries have made some of greatest films in France, perhaps because of their culture for it - The Passion of Joan of Arc - Carl Dreyer (Denmark) 1928, Luis Bunuel made a few films there too, Max Ophuls

Only America can Claim a better set of filmmakers and in my own opinion I think the French have had more diverse quality


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## The Wanderer (Apr 14, 2007)

> Hi Wanderer
> Later on Flemish television is showing Lynch' s 'Lost Highway'
> Your recommendation
> Slightly off thread,but,
> ...



I saw this in London in September 1997, haven't seen it since, though I still remember parts of it like Vivid dreams, as far as nightmares and dreamscapes go I prefer it 'Mullholland Drive' and 'Wild at Heart', though I think it's inferior to 'Blue Velvet' and 'The Elephant Man'

I think it should be talked about more, which is part of my definition of Underrated, yes


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## Pyan (Apr 14, 2007)

I was going to suggest Waterworld (1995) but wonder if I mean _underestimated_ rather than underrated?__


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## williamjm (Apr 14, 2007)

HardScienceFan said:


> Yes,my friend,it is.
> Yes,the French can make enjoyable movies,perhaps even better than Hollywood,but hey,that's just my taste.Now will you believe me when I say that some of the better movies will be the ones U see with subtitles?



I can certainly believe that - films like "The City of Lost Children" or "Pan's Labyrinth" are much better than the vast majority of SF/F films made in English.


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## The Wanderer (Apr 14, 2007)

williamjm said:


> I can certainly believe that - films like "The City of Lost Children" or "Pan's Labyrinth" are much better than the vast majority of SF/F films made in English.



They are made with an eccentric eye, remember eccentriticy in the English speaking circuit costs ticket sales, it's got to be what people are already accustommed to, according to the funders and studio bosses

(mind you there was Ken Russell)

that's why you'll never have an Almodovar in English speaking Cinema

Remember in France directors are considered to make works of Art, in the US a money making product, if an American director makes a brilliant work it's usually down to the brilliance of the director transcending the material

look at 'The Godfather' 1972, Coppola took a fairly orinary, rather trashy book by Mario Puzo and made a masterpiece out of the material


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## The Wanderer (Apr 14, 2007)

> "Pan's Labyrinth".



It's by the Mexican Director Guillemo Del Toro, though I think he works all over the place

Credits include

Hellboy (2004) 
Blade II (2002) 
The Devil's Backbone (2001) (USA) 
Mimic (1997)
Cronos (1993) 

Mimic, Blade 2 and Hellboy were made in USA


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## The Wanderer (Apr 14, 2007)

> much better than the vast majority of SF/F films made in English



too true, even basic science Fiction/Horror genre picures that are 
like Alien are not well done

Alien (1979) is a model and yet very similar films are made but fail to live up to that model

in another context it's the same with Psycho - Alfred Hitchcock - 1960, Dressed to Kill - Brian De Palma - 1980, Halloween - John Carpenter - 1978

all successful films in there own right, essentially elements of these films are remade and incorportated into other movies, inferior genre movies of course

as for Purer Science Fiction, I feel it hasn't been consistently entertaining in American Cinema since the period from 1968-1985, which was the time generally when the best science Fiction films were made in the English Language


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## that old guy (Apr 14, 2007)

The Wanderer said:


> Ok here goes
> 
> Heaven's Gate - Micheal Cimino - 1980


 
Doesn't this make it onto some of the worst of all time lists? I remember it being absolutely savaged by critics when it came out. What's next? _Ishtar_ and _Howard the Duck_?


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## The Wanderer (Apr 15, 2007)

that old guy said:


> Doesn't this make it onto some of the worst of all time lists? I remember it being absolutely savaged by critics when it came out. What's next? _Ishtar_ and _Howard the Duck_?



No, Mate, Critics were divided

http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/heavens_gate/

Perhaps you need to learn more about cinema


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## that old guy (Apr 15, 2007)

The Wanderer said:


> No, Mate, Critics were divided


 
Not when it first came out they weren't.



> Perhaps you need to learn more about cinema


 
A movie that was supposedly finished at 5 1/2 hours was run once at just over four hours had its general release at 154 minutes and is now only available in a 219 minute version.  Please expand my knowledge of cinema and explain that that's how masterpieces are made.  

BTW, I knew all that. What *was* news to me and kind of surprised me is that the Wiki entry talks about how the 154 minute version (the cinematic release) actually contains scenes and shots from scenes the longer, currently available version doesn't. Huh? Is this the original "Greedo shoots first?"


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## The Wanderer (Apr 15, 2007)

that old guy said:


> Not when it first came out they weren't.



Indeed that's true, the reception was 90% negative in the US and 60-70% negative elsewhere





> A movie that was supposedly finished at 5 1/2 hours was run once at just over four hours had its general release at 154 minutes and is now only available in a 219 minute version.Please expand my knowledge of cinema and explain that that's how masterpieces are made.



No, not always, but think Lean's 'Lawrence of Arabia', Sergei Bondarchuks 'War & Peace', Von Stroheim's 'Greed' (which received dimilar notices to HG)
Kurosawa's 'The Sevens Samurai', Coppola's 'Apocalypse Now'



> BTW, I knew all that. What *was* news to me and kind of surprised me is that the Wiki entry talks about how the 154 minute version (the cinematic release) actually contains scenes and shots from scenes the longer, currently available version doesn't. Huh? Is this the original "Greedo shoots first?"



Yes it's taken by MGM (Notriously incompetant at these kind of things) and recut it.

I am not trying to say that it's a perfect film, but if you look at the film with innocent eyes and can appreciate good cinematography (Vilmos Zsigmond), Joan Carelli's Ethnic styled Music, and it has many beautiful scenes and set pieces

Disputed though the film is now

Cimino's problem was he couldn't make the film ealier, say between 67-75, Jaws and Star Wars had changed the directon of movie-making and had directed audiences towards less challenging fayre...


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## Urien (Apr 15, 2007)

Nonsense the shark was a very three dimensional character. I felt his angst. He wasn't eating because he was hungry you know. It was a metaphor for human consumption of the natural world.

Next thing you'll be telling me that Tango and Cash wasn't the greatest cop film ever made.


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## HardScienceFan (Apr 15, 2007)

andrew.v.spencer said:


> Nonsense the shark was a very three dimensional character. I felt his angst. He wasn't eating because he was hungry you know. It was a metaphor for human consumption of the natural world.
> 
> Next thing you'll be telling me that Tango and Cash wasn't the greatest cop film ever made.


Yes,it was. Here are some other goodies: 
Jaws III
The Punisher
Revenge of the Nerds
40 days,brilliant
Halloween 27
Shows I've got taste


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## Ray Zdybrow (Nov 11, 2021)

*Trop Belle Pour Toi!*
Seemingly banal/mainstream film which is actually a PKD/Carpenter style mindflick. 
Dunno why no-one else sees it that way


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## BAYLOR (Nov 11, 2021)

*Zardoz*


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## Rodders (Nov 12, 2021)

I always felt that Disney's John Carter of Mars was hugely underrated. Many of the comments I've seen on the Chrons are always positive.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 12, 2021)

Rodders said:


> I always felt that Disney's John Carter of Mars was hugely underrated. Many of the comments I've seen on the Chrons are always positive.



This is a terrific film and should have been the beginning of a successful film franchise .


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## BAYLOR (Nov 12, 2021)

*Reign of  Fire  *2002   This is a surprisingly good film.
*The Time Machine* 2002. When I first saw it , I didn't like it, but over time and repeated viewings , ive gotten to like this film . Yes it a remake , but's it's a very good film .


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## Danny McG (Nov 12, 2021)

BAYLOR said:


> *Zardoz*


Classic


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## Vince W (Nov 13, 2021)

Rodders said:


> I always felt that Disney's John Carter of Mars was hugely underrated. Many of the comments I've seen on the Chrons are always positive.


I watched it again recently and thought more favourably about it.

*Tomorrowland*. I love this film. It's a refreshing change from the constant barrage of neo-apocalyptic films we tend to get.


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## Danny McG (Nov 13, 2021)

One from about 15 years ago, Dragon Wars.

You get hordes of black armoured knights riding dragons into the city, accompanied by dinosaur sized things that fire burning oil at helicopters and military jets.

They're battling the police and the US army amongst the skyscrapers, with columns of Frontline battle tanks getting broiled.

Brilliant IMO


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## Bren G (Nov 13, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> One from about 15 years ago, Dragon Wars.
> 
> You get hordes of black armoured knights riding dragons into the city, accompanied by dinosaur sized things that fire burning oil at helicopters and military jets.
> 
> ...


Just saw some battle scenes on youtube. This one's going on my watch list this weekend Danny!


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## Bren G (Nov 13, 2021)

John Carpenter's 1988 film - *They Live* starring Roddy Piper. The epic alleyway fight scene is just one jewel in the crown of this legendary sci-fi film.


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## AnRoinnUltra (Nov 13, 2021)

Bren G said:


> John Carpenter's 1988 film - *They Live* starring Roddy Piper. The epic alleyway fight scene is just one jewel in the crown of this legendary sci-fi film.


Really enjoyed that one, the fight was class -all over not wanting to wear a pair of sunglasses (when the foot goes down, it goes down!). Feel the same about Into the Mouth of Madness. The information superhighway says it got over 50% of a full quantity of critical yolkibobs, but it seemed to just die a death at the time for what I reckon was a class piece of work.


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## Rodders (Nov 13, 2021)

Apparently it's in the Guinness book of records as the longest fight scene. (Well. it was at the time.)

South Park did an awesome parody with their Cripple fight.

They Live had a lot to say about consumerism and I think a remake would do well now. Especially when you add social media into the mix.


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## Vince W (Nov 13, 2021)

Bren G said:


> John Carpenter's 1988 film - *They Live* starring Roddy Piper. The epic alleyway fight scene is just one jewel in the crown of this legendary sci-fi film.


A top film. Very wry at times.


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## Danny McG (Nov 18, 2021)

Bren G said:


> Just saw some battle scenes on youtube. This one's going on my watch list this weekend Danny!


@Bren G 
Did you see it then?


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## AE35Unit (Nov 18, 2021)

How about *The Silent Flute,* written by Bruce Lee. Its a magical film full of twists turns and jumps and I haven't seen it for years. Part of it actually featured in a pop song.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 18, 2021)

Vince W said:


> A top film. Very wry at times.


Has this line that was picked up by Duke Nukem much later. "Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of gum"


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## BAYLOR (Nov 19, 2021)

*The 5000 Fingers of Dr T    *1953  * *


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## Vince W (Nov 19, 2021)

AE35Unit said:


> Has this line that was picked up by Duke Nukem much later. "Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And I'm all out of gum"


"I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And I'm alllll out of bubblegum." Piper delivered it in deadpan perfection.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 19, 2021)

*Things to Come* 1936   Screenplay by H G Well,  directed by  Alexander Korda . Staring Raymons Massey, Ralph Richardson Cedric Harkwicke. In


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## AE35Unit (Nov 19, 2021)

Vince W said:


> "I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And I'm alllll out of bubblegum." Piper delivered it in deadpan perfection.


Yea, very wooden acting in that film.


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## Foxbat (Nov 19, 2021)

Darren Aronofsky’s The Fountain. It’s a film about the acceptance of death but It‘s also a bit like movie Marmite with as many who hate it as  love it.

I happen to love The Fountain but hate Marmite.


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## CupofJoe (Nov 19, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> Darren Aronofsky’s The Fountain. It’s a film about the acceptance of death but It‘s also a bit like movie Marmite with as many who hate it as  love it.
> 
> I happen to love The Fountain but hate Marmite.
> View attachment 83985


I guess we will have to agree to disagree... Marmite is wonderful and The Fountain rather less so. 
To be fair I saw it with advert breaks and I think it is a film that deserves to be seen uninterrupted.


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## AE35Unit (Nov 19, 2021)

Funny thing is I don't like marmite, but I love twiglets, which are coated with a substance similar to marmite!


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## Vince W (Nov 19, 2021)

I bet.


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## Bren G (Nov 20, 2021)

Danny McG said:


> @Bren G
> Did you see it then?


Watched it last night. You were absolutely right. The old-meets-new-all-out urban warfare was out of this world! I wonder why more  films haven't done this? I want more!


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