# Films: Dogma (1999), Highlander (1986)



## Anthony G Williams (Dec 19, 2010)

I was pointed towards *Dogma* in an SFF discussion forum, so I gave it a spin recently. The plot of this comic fantasy is novel: two fallen angels (Ben Affleck and Matt Damon), living as humans in present-day USA after having been banished by God long ago, conceive a plan to get back to Paradise. The problems are that if they succeeded this would prove that God is fallible, and thus cause the end of all creation; and that God, who could stop them easily enough, has gone missing while in disguise, somewhere on Earth. To help prevent disaster, God's spokesman (Alan Rickman) recruits a woman (Linda Fiorentino) who, unknown to herself, is the last scion of the family of Jesus of Nazareth. She is tasked with stopping the angels, with the aid of an assortment of dubious characters.

This is the excuse for a lot of rather heavy-handed and sometimes crude humour, mostly at the expense of religion in general and the Roman Catholic Church in particular - I gather that it prompted protests from Catholics in the usual Pavlovian manner. Subtle it ain't, but it fires enough comic shots for a number of them to score hits. All in all, worth watching if you are in the mood for some broad humour, unless you are religious and of a sensitive disposition.

I've been meaning to watch *Highlander* for years, but have only just got around to it. The story of the accidental immortal Connor MacLeod (played by Christopher Lambert) who spends centuries battling the Kurgan, another immortal warrior, must be well-known by now. Two plot threads run in parallel with the scenes flipping between them; one in the sixteenth century, when Connor first discovers he is immortal and is trained by fellow-immortal Ramirez (played by Sean Connery) and one in 1985 when the climactic battle takes place.

I have to say that I was rather dissatisfied. There are yawning plot holes, with no attempt at any explanation for what is going on and why. Lambert makes a broodingly impressive hero but the Kurgan is a cardboard cut-out villain and the rest of the cast (except Connery) are unmemorable. I found the background pop music jarringly inappropriate, and the whole film rather pretentious and overblown. It compares badly with some of the more recent superhero movies. I gather it has cult status and is highly regarded compared with the sequels, so I won't be wasting time on them…

(An extract from my SFF blog)


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## Dave (Dec 19, 2010)

Anthony G Williams said:


> I found the background pop music jarringly inappropriate...


Cough! That's _Queen_ you're dissing there! 

May I suggest you don't bother with _Flash Gordon_ then?


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## C Of K (Dec 19, 2010)

I liked _Highlander_. It had honest beginnings, a good concept, and  was released at a time when the plot holes weren't so glaring that it  couldn't be enjoyed. It fits in well with many cult classics that came out in the mid 80's.



Anthony G Williams said:


> There are yawning plot holes, with no attempt at any explanation for what is going on and why.



The sequels emphasize how the writers had no idea why any of it was going on. Where the original movie purposely neglected to answer the "why" of it all, the sequels often explored these areas. Doing so, the _Highlander_ franchise dug a hole into obscurity. No one trusts it anymore, and rightly so. Where the movies are concerned, disenchanted fans will agree that ignorance is bliss.

Edit: Some of the non Queen stuff was quite nice






Though I will admit its not the most memorable stuff. The pop music had no trouble being memorable.


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## Anthony G Williams (Dec 19, 2010)

Dave said:


> Cough! That's _Queen_ you're dissing there!
> 
> May I suggest you don't bother with _Flash Gordon_ then?


I wasn't criticising the music as such (although I never was a _Queen_ fan), merely its use in this film, which struck me as really bizarre for an heroic fantasy. I mean, could you imagine _Lord of the Rings_ accompanied by pop music?


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## Vertigo (Dec 19, 2010)

I tend to agree with you regarding the music in Highlander. However it can work if done well - I thought the modern music in A Knight's Tale worked well, though I must admit when it started I was like "what the hell is this? We Will Rock You at a jousting tournament ". But actually (I thought at least) it did work.


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## Metryq (Apr 1, 2011)

I haven't seen any of the _Highlander_ sequels, as I was advised to stay away from them. (Aliens?) I liked what I saw of the TV series, but thought it threw a monkey wrench into the key theme I saw in the first movie:

God and Satan (good and evil) were battling it out on Earth once again, which would explain why the immortals would not fight on holy ground. ("Good" wouldn't do it out of respect, while "Evil" wouldn't risk a home field advantage to God. All Ramirez said on the matter was that "It's tradition.") Because the warriors were "immortal," the battle could potentially last forever, although the "Gathering" suggests a set date for Armageddon. 

The surprise "gift" to the winner was god-like omniscience, but with the limits of a normal lifespan. (The winner could also have children — finally.) All in all, it sounds like an action version of Jesus Christ — god-like powers in a mortal man. The next question, of course, is does another round of immortals come after the winner of the previous Gathering finally dies?


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## alchemist (Apr 1, 2011)

Anthony G Williams said:


> I gather it has cult status and is highly regarded compared with the sequels, so I won't be wasting time on them…


 
This would be a massive understatement. Not only did the sequels have the distinction of being execrable in their own right, they also managed to wreck the original film, for the reasons C of K mentioned.

For me, the original is a classic, notwithstanding that some of it feels dated.


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## J Riff (Apr 2, 2011)

Pop music in movies is... wrong. Usually. What happened to _soundtrack?_ It's a highly-specialized type of composition. The instant I hear Queen or anyone else blaring during a movie, esp. one set in the distant past, the whole thing drops a notch instantly. Are they just cheap, or trying to plug the band or what? 
 Same goes for plugs. In _I am Legend_, watching Will Smith go goo goo over Bob Marley and Shrek nearly made me walk out.


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## Boaz (Apr 23, 2020)

Just rewatched/listened to _Highlander_ while on my laptop.  I was not yet twenty when I saw it in the local theatre.  Anyway, today I expected the action to be bad, the effects poor, the acting to be subpar, and the music to be cheesy.  The film actually exceeded expectations.  

Before we saw Keanu Reeves working hard at acting, there was Christopher Lambert... who makes Keanu look pretty good.

I disagree with the OP regarding Clancy Brown as the Kurgan.  He's not some evil overlord, nor a megalomaniacal genius bent on world domination... no that will all come from just being completely psychotic.  He truly loves terror, insults, mayhem, and murder.

I also disagree that everything needs to be explained.  Ramirez (Connery) can't give an explanation why this all happens.  

The story moves quickly (or is made confusing) by the heavy use of flashbacks throughout.  I found this to be clumsy at times, but overall helped to understand MacLeod's motivations.

Connery was great.

The action really suffers by comparison to current film making.  

The use of rock music over 16th century Scottish scenes was not well done.  In 1986, MacLeod does not go for rock.  He's a cultured and refined man... rock is for the Kurgan.

Overall I enjoyed it.  I was reminded of many lines that my friends and I used to quote for years. 

"Moooom."

"Don't ever speak to me again."

"Of course you are."

"What does in-com-pe-tant mean?  What does ba-ffled mean?"


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## Danny McG (Apr 23, 2020)

I find this thread interesting in so far as, since the mention in the original post from 2010, all comments carefully avoid the 'upsetting organised religion' can of worms that was *Dogma*


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## BigBadBob141 (May 7, 2020)

Dogma is one of the funniest films I've seen in a while, I like the idea of a black thirteenth disciple being written out of the bible, and the fact that Alanis Morissette plays God.
Very good film all around, recommended!


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## Narkalui (May 17, 2020)

The action in Highlander I think is terrific. I actively dislike the way action is shown in modern films, I think that physical effects having to give way to cg is sad and a real art form is dying as a result. Now that Disney own Fox Aliens will never again be on tv or available on any streaming service so I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a second hand dvd. Aliens is probably the greatest work of special effects ever created, all physical effects!

I also love the camera work in Highlander, lots terrific edgey angles, love it!


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## Vince W (May 17, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> The action in Highlander I think is terrific. I actively dislike the way action is shown in modern films, I think that physical effects having to give way to cg is sad and a real art form is dying as a result. Now that Disney own Fox Aliens will never again be on tv or available on any streaming service so I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a second hand dvd. Aliens is probably the greatest work of special effects ever created, all physical effects!
> 
> I also love the camera work in Highlander, lots terrific edgey angles, love it!


Highlander is a classic.

I would recommend picking up the Alien series on bluray. Completely worth it.


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## Rodders (May 18, 2020)

Did I read somewhere that Highlander is being remade.

Agreed, a brilliant classic.i remember that my Dad used to watch and enjoy the TV series with Adrian Paul. I never cared for it. Was it any good?


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## Vince W (May 18, 2020)

If there is a film that needs to be remade less, it's Highlander. It's a perfect product of the 80s; the story, the cast, the soundtrack; everything works. Trying to remake if for the Game of Thrones set will only lead to a terrible failure.


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## Narkalui (May 18, 2020)

For a while they were trying to get Jason Connery to play Ramirez


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## .matthew. (May 18, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> Aliens is probably the greatest work of special effects ever created, all physical effects!


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