# The landscape of Hadrian's Wall



## Brian G Turner (Sep 7, 2014)

Interesting piece about discovering more ancient sites around Hadrian's Wall, suggesting that it was a busy farming area.

And, rather than the north being fearfully hostile to the Romans, it appears they supplied water to some forts.

And that before the wall, a series of timber forts may already have been standing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-22079835

The video's quite decent, too.


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## J-Sun (Sep 7, 2014)

Interesting but there's a strange "atemporality" to this very temporal inquiry. I'm likely missing something but I don't find it at all surprising that both sides of a wall would be peaceful at times - Romans conquer an area, build a wall at the extent of pacification, the nearest on the "barbarian" side eventually become pacified through proximity and trade. A new wall is built at the new edge of pacification, the cycle repeats. Roman power fails, the cycle doesn't repeat. Why shouldn't the area within the Antonine Wall be peaceful at some given time? (I get that this can change some perspectives and precise dates, though.)


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## paranoid marvin (Sep 7, 2014)

Like any occupation for an extended period of time, people will settle down and get on with each other. Of course money is the common denominator, with coin being available for those willing to do business; and I'm sure many did. No doubt there was also more security for locals who lived close to the forts, as I'm sure that raids from both sides of the border took place; living close to Roman encampments would make would-be attackers a little more wary.

The Romans weren't evil oppressors or hard task-masters; this was very much a time of the Pax Romana, where getting on with the Romans led to many benefits. I'm sure there were more people sad to see the Romans leave than were glad they had gone.


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## The Ace (Sep 7, 2014)

Remember, the time-scale of the Gask Ridge is also undergoing revision as we speak.  It's only just been confirmed that it's the oldest frontier system in the Empire.


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## J-Sun (Sep 8, 2014)

paranoid marvin said:


> The Romans weren't evil oppressors or hard task-masters; this was very much a time of the Pax Romana, where getting on with the Romans led to many benefits. I'm sure there were more people sad to see the Romans leave than were glad they had gone.



The story of Boudicca and others would say otherwise - I agree that "the Romans", as a collective, weren't, but they certainly had some greedy, grasping, evil, incompetent governors and whatnot. And, of course, while not exactly totalitarians, if you valued your unhindered tribal-ness, you'd find them oppressive. But this is all just by way of counterbalance - your main point that many people were attracted to Roman civilization is true.


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## Gramm838 (Sep 23, 2014)

We are so desperate these days to put a 21stC mentality on anything old - while it may be true that possibly the Romans were a bit less horrendous than we think, but nevertheless they lived in a time of almost uncontrolled violence as a means to an end and no matter how we try, they will never be the 1stC version of our democracy.

We'll be expecting an apology for their invasion next...I'm sure we can use DNA to identify a descendant of the last western Emperor to give us one


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## svalbard (Oct 2, 2014)

The Romans were fairly aggressive in Northern Britain. The Brigantes were in a constant state of revolt and there is theory that Hadrian built the wall to stop them joining up with more northern tribes.

Agricola defeated a coalition of Caledonian tribes under the leadership of a chief called Calgacus at Mons Graupius. Tacitus has Calgacus making a famous speech before the battle and I am paraphrasing here "you make of us a desert and call it peace". Tacitus had a few political axes to grind in support of Agricola against the Roman establishment.

The Wall was one of the most heavily garrisoned frontiers in the Empire and for good reason. In 367 it was overrun in the 'The Great Conspiracy' and it took Count Theodosius, later Emperor, to put down the rebellion and restore power to the Empire. The Wall continued to be garrisioned, but with Alamanni, Saxons, and other Germannic tribes. 

Later folklore has the successor Romano-British kingdoms forming from the descendents of the Walls garrisions with founding figures going by names such as Padernus 'Redcloak'. Old King Cole of the nursery ryhme is attested to this period and area under the name Coleius. His last great descendant could have being Urien of Rheged, who could be the basis for some of the King Arthur legends.

It is a fascinating place with a rich and varied history. Tim Clarkson is a very good historian who covers the history of the North in his books. Allastair Moffat has also written some good material, although he comes at it from an etymological and folkloric point.


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