# Collective Chronicles Reading Experience - Have We Read Everything?



## Bick (May 10, 2020)

Just a bit of fun for the lounge.

While mowing the lawns, thinking idly of nothing and anything, it occurred to me that of you crossed Baylor and Danny in some sort of teleporting, combining device, much like in _The Fly_, you'd end up with a (handsome) creature who had read almost all science fiction books.

I then got to mulling this over in a _slightly_ more sensible way and decided that, indeed, if you combined the readership of all the Chronicles Forum members, you'd obtain quite an impressive reading log.  Have we read close to all major SF and F works?  I'm not talking all short stories published, as there are way too many thousand insignificant works by forgotten authors, but let's say "books" as in collections, anthologies or novels.

I'm quite sure that between us we've read all the books of the big 3 in SF (Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke).  I know I've read most, and I know there are others here who've read them all. Likewise, we known J-Sun's read most of Cherryh, and for those few he hadn't read, others doubtless fill in the gaps.  Weber? Parson and tobl cover us pretty well. Moorcock - JD's your man.  Vance - Connavar. Simak - Dave Wixon, of course. And so on.  And we have great diversity - I've read almost no romantic fantasy, but many on here, e.g. Teresa, have read a lot. I know for a fact that there are folk here who have read all of WoT and Malazan and other epic fantasy much less popular. Is there anything we haven't collectively read?

So, in response to this thread, let's see:

(1) General discussion of whether we have read everything, and if not, what percentage have we read?  (Because I'm in lock-down and it seemed like a fun hypothesis)

(2) I've set a slightly daft hypothesis up - _that between us we've read everything_ - can you specifically challenge the hypothesis and think of a SFF book we haven't read, or identify an author who is under-read among the whole reading membership? 

_Okay, so the main problem with this game would be if folk just come up with an extremely obscure book by an extremely obscure author.  So if the author is ludicrously obscure (e.g. no wiki page), the book doesn't count, and we're off the hook._

(3) If anyone suggests a book that we've not "collectively read" - can you prove them wrong by revealing you have actually read it?

(4) And if we agree there's a book out there we haven't read, that meets the "_mustn't be far to obscure_" rule - who will add it to their TBR pile?  Let's add it to our collective reading experience!


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## The Big Peat (May 10, 2020)

Interesting thought. I imagine between us, we've not missed much. But probably some - I'm not sure who here reads the major female UF/PR/YA authors; and tbh, I don't think the readership here is hugely into contemporary trad fantasy.


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## BAYLOR (May 10, 2020)

As much as ive read, there a great deal more that I have not read. There are books by Heinlein, Asimov  and Clarke that I have not gotten around to reading as of yet. In terms of what I read , Im more generalist, In that I try to read as many different  writers  s possible . I now have idea how many books snd stories ive read,  I stopped counting may years ago.  I also have  tendency to read books and writers  that are not commonly  read or known about. For example .  On writer  ive been recommending  of late is a man by the name of Staton Coblentz . Ive read only one book by Him *In Cavern's Below* which can be found under the title of* The Hidden World (Airmont books) *Ive only encountered one other person here who read this book. I suspect that most of you have never head of this writer . Coblentz was historian, a satirist and science fiction writer. He's not by any stretch one the greats and is largely forgotten  but,  he was a good writer and this book, written  1935 left an impression on me . It's a satire and it its become relevant again . I would put this book in the same category as 1984 , Brave New World We and Limbo and other dystopian books.


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## Danny McG (May 10, 2020)

Well I recall Harpo posting about a book he'd obtained by this obscure SF writer, who's book hadn't even been mentioned ever in SFF Chronicles......I'd read it 






						Perry A. Chapdelaine
					

Today I acquired 28 secondhand scifi books (Aldiss, Moorcock, Herbert, et cetera) and one was by an unfamiliar name - Perry A. Chapdelaine.  A quick search tells me he has never been mentioned on the Chrons, and neither has the book Swampworld West.  Has anyone read anything by him?




					www.sffchronicles.com


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## Bick (May 10, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> Interesting thought. I imagine between us, we've not missed much. But probably some - I'm not sure who here reads the major female UF/PR/YA authors; and tbh, I don't think the readership here is hugely into contemporary trad fantasy.


Okay - suggest a contemporary trad fantasy title - I bet someone comes on and says, "well, actually..."


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## The Big Peat (May 10, 2020)

Bick said:


> Okay - suggest a contemporary trad fantasy title - I bet someone comes on and says, "well, actually..."



The following is a list of fairly big name contemporary authors where I've yet to read all their books in the fantasy genre

NK Jemisin
Rebecca Kuang
Jeanette Ng
Sarah J Maas
Cassandra Clare
Brandon Sanderson
Brent Weeks
Mark Lawrence
Joe Abercrombie
Adrian Tchaikovsky
Ed McDonald
Daniel Abraham
Sebastien de Castell
Miles Cameron
Josiah Bancroft
Sarah Shannon
Jen Williams
Anna Smith Sparks
Leigh Bardugo
Seanan McGuire

Given how much chat I see about these authors here, I'd be surprised if none of them went unticked.


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## BAYLOR (May 10, 2020)

Here's a. few more

*Alph * by Charles Eric Main   a future world in which use to an unfortunate   break though  Parthenogenesis human reproduction has resulted in a future in which  in  there are only woman and no men, In this future world onescientist who wants bring back men back.
*The Heads of Cerberus* by France Stevens    a dystopia novel by a neglected  figure in Science fiction.
*The Revolt of Angels  *by Anatole France    A fantasy  novel by the man who wrote the Reign of Terror  *The Gods Will Have Blood
Paris in the Twentieth Century*. by Jules Verne Never saw publication in his lifetime because his publisher that the the starting productions he made in the book were too preposterous for readers to believe . The manuscript fo the book was left in a safe until rediscovered in 1989 by one of his descendants.
*The Castle  in Transylvania *   by Jules Verne   There had been a English translation of this novel  in over 100 years.
*Rim of the Morning  Two Tales*  of Cosmic Horror by William Sloane
*Merlin's Ring* by H Warner Munn   Very much and underrated fantasy novel by a water who should be far better remembered then he is.


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## tegeus-Cromis (May 10, 2020)

I've read *The Castle in Transylvania*! I've also read *The Gods Are Athirst *(I prefer that translation of the title), but I don't think you meant that as a candidate for the topic of this thread. I do own *The Revolt of the Angels* (well, in a fat hardcover containing maybe six Anatole France novels).


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## BAYLOR (May 10, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> I've read *The Castle in Transylvania*! I've also read *The Gods Are Athirst *(I prefer that translation of the title), but I don't think you meant that as a candidate for the topic of this thread. I do own *The Revolt of the Angels* (well, in a fat hardcover containing maybe six Anatole France novels).



*The Revolt  of Angels* is only the second novel ive ever seen by France , the other book I read by I read so in college about 35 years ago. 

As to the Jules Verb novel  *The Castle in Transylvania.  *The only copy ive seen is the one I own


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## Bick (May 10, 2020)

Thanks for the lists, Baylor, but the idea is to come up with books no-one on here has read - you've read all these.

So far, no one has come up with a book suggestion.  I've a feeling this isn't going to work


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## BAYLOR (May 10, 2020)

Bick said:


> Thanks for the lists, Baylor, but the idea is to come up with books no-one on here has read - you've read all these.
> 
> So far, no one has come up with a book suggestion.  I've a feeling this isn't going to work



Ops sorry Bick


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## BAYLOR (May 10, 2020)

I have one I have not read  yet   *The Water Margin  Outlaws of the Mash*  by   Shi Naian 
  I have it in my collection but haven't read it.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 10, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> The following is a list of fairly big name contemporary authors where I've yet to read all their books in the fantasy genre
> 
> NK Jemisin
> Rebecca Kuang
> ...


I can knock these off the list: 

nk Jemisin (DNF but started) 
Jeanette Ng (reading at the mo) 
Cassandra Clare (came to it a little old, would have loved it a decade ago) 
Sanderson (about 5 books) 
Lawrence (read the Jorg books but not generally a fan - Nixie is though) 
Joe Abercrombie - loads of fans here 
Tchaikovsky - read his sf not fantasy yet 
Ed McDonald - read book one, liked it but not enough to dig out book 2 yet but I might well do) 
Bancroft - Senlin Ascends is on my TBR 
Last 3 - all on the TBR. Have read some of Anna’s’


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## Bick (May 10, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> I have one I have not read  yet   *The Water Margin  Outlaws of the Mash*  by   Shi Naian
> I have it in my collection but haven't read it.


Hmm, 14th century Chinese literature wasn't really what I was looking for either.  Reasonably modern English language SFF was more what I had in mind.  This really isn't working.  Perhaps my hypothesis is right.  As you were.


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## Bick (May 10, 2020)

Jo - they weren't on a list to 'knock off'.  Big Peat didn't list any books no-one has read.


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## Jo Zebedee (May 10, 2020)

Bick said:


> Jo - they weren't on a list to 'knock off'.  Big Peat didn't list any books no-one has read.


Ah. I did scratch my head over the post and what it meant  ah well, it was fun checking over the TBR


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## The Big Peat (May 10, 2020)

Let me be clearer then. I am listing *every* single fantasy long-form work on the bibliography of each of those novelists; it is easier than copy-pasting them all to simple name the author. I have read some of their books but there's none there where I've read all. Do I think some have been covered by the regular members of the forum? Probably, probably most of them, but I'm curious given since what I've observed, I don't think there's that many diehard up to date fantasy readers here.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 10, 2020)

To avoid the necessity of typing them all out, I've copy-pasted all the books mentioned in the Wikipedia article on the Ballentine Adult Fantasy series, (I've put the ones I've read into bold, in case anyone is about to propose them as among the books unread by Chronicles members, and simply list the rest in plain text to see if anyone else has read them.)

The precursors to the series:


*The Hobbit**, J. R. R. Tolkien (August 1965)*
*The Fellowship of the Ring, J. R. R. Tolkien (October 1965)*
*The Two Towers, J. R. R. Tolkien (October 1965)*
*The Return of the King, J. R. R. Tolkien (December 1965)*
*The Tolkien Reader, J. R. R. Tolkien (September 1966)*
*The Worm Ouroboros, E. R. Eddison (April 1967, later reprinted (5th) with colophon)*
*Mistress of Mistresses, E. R. Eddison (August 1967)*
*A Fish Dinner in Memison, E. R. Eddison (February 1968)*
*The Road Goes Ever On, J. R. R. Tolkien and Donald Swann (October 1968)*
*Titus Groan, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (5th) with colophon)*
*Gormenghast, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (5th) with colophon)*
*Titus Alone, Mervyn Peake (October 1968; later reprinted (4th & 5th) with colophon)*
*A Voyage to Arcturus, David Lindsay (November 1968; later reprinted (2nd & 3rd) with colophon)*
*The Last Unicorn, Peter S. Beagle (February 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover; later reprinted with colophon)*
*A Fine and Private Place, Peter S. Beagle (February 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover of the first two printings)*
*Smith of Wootton Major and Farmer Giles of Ham, J. R. R. Tolkien (March 1969)*
*Tolkien: A Look Behind "The Lord of the Rings", Lin Carter (March 1969)*
*The Mezentian Gate, E. R. Eddison (April 1969, with "A Ballantine Adult Fantasy" on the cover)*
So I've read all the books they published before the series was officially a series.


Volumes published as part of the series, based on a listing by Lin Carter in _Imaginary Worlds: the Art of Fantasy_ .


*The Blue Star**, **Fletcher Prat*t (May 1969) (#01602)
*The King of Elfland's Daughter**, **Lord Dunsany* (June 1969) (#01628)
The Wood Beyond the World, William Morris (July 1969) (#01652)
The Silver Stallion, James Branch Cabell (August 1969) (#01678)
Lilith, George MacDonald (September 1969) (#01711)
Dragons, Elves, and Heroes, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1969) (#01731)
The Young Magicians, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1969) (#01730)
Figures of Earth, James Branch Cabell (November 1969) (#01763)
The Sorcerer's Ship, Hannes Bok (December 1969) (#01795)
*Land of Unreason**, Fletcher Pratt and **L. Sprague de Camp* (January 1970) (#01814)
The High Place, James Branch Cabell (February 1970) (#01855-9)
*Lud-in-the-Mist**, Hope Mirrlees *(March 1970) (#01880-X)
At the Edge of the World, Lord Dunsany (March 1970) (#01879-6)
Phantastes, George MacDonald (April 1970) (#01902-4)
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, H. P. Lovecraft (May 1970) (#01923-7)
Zothique, Clark Ashton Smith (June 1970) (#01938-5)
The Shaving of Shagpat, George Meredith (July 1970) (#01958-X)
*The Island of the Mighty**, Evangeline Walton *(July 1970) (#01959-8)
*Deryni Rising**, **Katherine Kurtz* (August 1970) (#01981-4)
The Well at the World's End, Vol. 1, William Morris (August 1970) (#01982-2)
The Well at the World's End, Vol. 2, William Morris (September 1970) (#02015-4)
Golden Cities, Far, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1970) (#02045-6)
Beyond the Golden Stair, Hannes Bok (November 1970) (#02093-6)
*The Broken Sword**, Poul Anderson (*January 1971) (#02107-X)
The Boats of the "Glen Carrig", William Hope Hodgson (February 1971) (#02145-2)
The Doom that Came to Sarnath and Other Stories, H. P. Lovecraft (February 1971) (#02146)
Something About Eve, James Branch Cabell (March 1971) (#02067-7)
*Red Moon and Black Mountain**, Joy Chant *(March 1971) (#02178-9)
Hyperborea, Clark Ashton Smith (April 1971) (#02206-8)
*Don Rodriguez: Chronicles of Shadow Valley**, **Lord Dunsany* (May 1971) (#02244-0)
Vathek, William Beckford (June 1971) (#02279-3)
*The Man Who Was Thursday**, **G. K. Chesterton* (July 1971) (#02305-6)
*The Children of Llyr**, **Evangeline Walton* (August 1971) (#02332-3)
The Cream of the Jest, James Branch Cabell (September 1971) (#02364-1)
New Worlds for Old, Lin Carter, ed. (September 1971) (#02365-X)
The Spawn of Cthulhu, Lin Carter, ed. (October 1971) (#02394-3)
*Double Phoenix**, Edmund Cooper and **Roger Lancelyn Green* (November 1971) (#02420-6)
The Water of the Wondrous Isles, William Morris (November 1971) (#02421-4)
Khaled, F. Marion Crawford (December 1971) (#02446-X)
The World's Desire, H. Rider Haggard and Andrew Lang (January 1972) (#02467-2)
Xiccarph, Clark Ashton Smith (February 1972) (#02501-6)
*The Lost Continent**, C. J. Cutcliffe Hyne *(February 1972) (#02502-4)
Discoveries in Fantasy, Lin Carter, ed. (March 1972) (#02546-6)
Domnei: A Comedy of Woman-Worship, James Branch Cabell (March 1972) (#02545-8)
Kai Lung's Golden Hours, Ernest Bramah (April 1972) (#02574-1)
*Deryni Checkmate**, Katherine Kurtz *(May 1972) (#02598-9)
Beyond the Fields We Know, Lord Dunsany (May 1972) (#02599-7)
The Three Impostors, Arthur Machen (June 1972) (#02643-8)
The Night Land, Vol. 1, William Hope Hodgson (July 1972) (#02669-1)
The Night Land, Vol. 2, William Hope Hodgson (July 1972) (#02670-5)
*The Song of Rhiannon**, **Evangeline Walton* (August 1972) (#02773-6)
Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy I, Lin Carter, ed. (September 1972) (#02789-2)
Evenor, George MacDonald (November 1972) (#02874)
Orlando Furioso: The Ring of Angelica, Volume 1, Ludovico Ariosto, translated by Richard Hodgens (January 1973) (#03057-5)
*The Charwoman's Shadow**, **Lord Dunsany* (February 1973) (#03085-0)
Great Short Novels of Adult Fantasy Volume II, Lin Carter, ed. (March 1973) (#03162-8)
The Sundering Flood, William Morris (May 1973) (#03261-6)
Imaginary Worlds: the Art of Fantasy, Lin Carter (June 1973) (#03309-4)
*Poseidonis**, Clark Ashton Smith *(July 1973) (#03353-1)
*Excalibur**, **Sanders Anne Laubenthal* (August 1973) (#23416-2)
*High Deryni**, **Katherine Kurtz* (September 1973) (#23485-5)
Hrolf Kraki's Saga, Poul Anderson (October 1973) (#23562-2)
The People of the Mist, H. Rider Haggard (December 1973) (#23660-2)
Kai Lung Unrolls His Mat, Ernest Bramah (February 1974) (#023787-0)
Over the Hills and Far Away, Lord Dunsany (April 1974) (#023886-9)
(A number of these I started but just didn't care for them enough to finish, so don't count them as books I have read.  Also, where the collections of writers like Clark Ashton Smith, Dunsany, and Lovecraft are concerned, I've probably read most of the stories in other collections but not these particular volumes, so again not counted.  So that leaves about three quarters of the books in the actual series that I wonder if anyone here has read.)

Two volumes published after retirement of the Unicorn's Head colophon were evidently intended for the series. The first has a Carter introduction and the second completes a set of four begun under his editorship.


_Merlin's Ring_, H. Warner Munn (June 1974)  
_*Prince of Annwn*_*, **Evangeline Walton* (November 1974)


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 10, 2020)

Regarding books already under discussion.

As for Jeanette Ng, I read *Under the Pendulum Sun*, but am unaware if she has written another novel since.  If she has I would like to read it, if anyone can tell me the title.

I've read Cassandra Clare's first three series, and read two book in the fourth, but sort of got fed up with her at that point.

And I've read a trilogy by N. K. Jemison, but can't remember the titles.  However, going by the descriptions on her website I think it must be *The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms Trilogy*.

There are lots of books by authors that never get mentioned here that I myself have read and enjoyed, but since I have read them I can hardly use them to challenge the hypothesis.  However, I'll suggest a few as authors I consider under-read (by Chrons members if not always the world at large):  Pauline J. Alama, Michael Scott Rohan, Dahlov Ipcar, Greer Ilene Giliman, Jennifer Roberson, James P. Blaylock, Pierre Pevel.


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## hitmouse (May 10, 2020)

@Teresa Edgerton I have read Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath, and the 2 Kai Lung books on that list. 

I reckon I have read every Jack Vance novel apart from Vandals of the Void. Anyone read it?


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## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> To avoid the necessity of typing them all out, I've copy-pasted all the books mentioned in the Wikipedia article on the Ballentine Adult Fantasy series, (I've put the ones I've read into bold, in case anyone is about to propose them as among the books unread by Chronicles members, and simply list the rest in plain text to see if anyone else has read them.)
> 
> The precursors to the series:
> 
> ...



Ive read 27 of the books on that list.


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## The Big Peat (May 11, 2020)

A more interesting list to cross off would be if we've read all the major award winners. Here's everything on the World Fantasy Award winners list on wiki, with the ones I've read bolded

Forgotten Beasts of Eld - McKillip
Bid Time Return - Matheson
Doctor Rat - Kotzwinkle
Our Lady of Darkness - Leiber
Gloriana - Moorcock
Watchtower - Lynn
*The Shadow of The Torturer - Wolfe*
Little, Big - Crowley
Nifft the Lean - Shea
The Dragon Waiting - Ford
*Bridge of Birds - Hughart
Mythago Wood - Holdstock*
Song of Kali - Simmons
Replay - Grimwood
Koko - Straub
Madouc - Vance
Only Begotten Daughter - Morrow
Thomas the Rhymer - Kushner
Boy's Life - McCammon
Last Call - Powers
Glimpses - Shiner
Towing Jehovah - Morrow
The Prestige - Priest
Godmother Night - Pollack
The Physiognomy - Ford
The Antelope Wife - Erdrich
Thraxas - Scott
Declare - Powers
Galveston - Stewart
The Other Wind - Le Guin
The Facts of Life - Joyce
Ombria in Shadow - McKillip
Tooth and Claw - Walton
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell - Clarke
Kafka on the Shore - Murakami
Soldier of Sidon - Wolfe
Ysabel - Kay
The Shadow Year - Ford
Tender Morsels - Lanagan
The City & The City - Mieville
Who Fears Death - Okorafor
Osama - Tidhar
Alif the Unseen - Wilson
A Stranger in Olondira - Samatar
The Bone Clocks - Mitchell
The Chimes - Smaill
The Sudden Appearance of Hope - North
The Changeling - LaValle
*Jade City - Lee*
The Witchmark - Polk


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## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> A more interesting list to cross off would be if we've read all the major award winners. Here's everything on the World Fantasy Award winners list on wiki, with the ones I've read bolded
> 
> Forgotten Beasts of Eld - McKillip
> Bid Time Return - Matheson
> ...




Ive only read 5 on that list.


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## Bick (May 11, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> Ive only read 5 on that list.


Saying how _many_ you've read on a list doesn't help Baylor - you'd need to say which ones, so the list can be whittled down.


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

The Big Peat said:


> The following is a list of fairly big name contemporary authors where I've yet to read all their books in the fantasy genre
> 
> NK Jemisin
> Rebecca Kuang
> ...



I haven't read any of these....


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> Here's a. few more
> 
> *Alph * by Charles Eric Main   a future world in which use to an unfortunate   break though  Parthenogenesis human reproduction has resulted in a future in which  in  there are only woman and no men, In this future world onescientist who wants bring back men back.
> *The Heads of Cerberus* by France Stevens    a dystopia novel by a neglected  figure in Science fiction.
> ...



I haven't read any of these, either.


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

Has anyone else read Maddux's *The Green Kingdom*?  If pulp adventure, horror, etc. are your bag, skip this.


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> To avoid the necessity of typing them all out, I've copy-pasted all the books mentioned in the Wikipedia article on the Ballentine Adult Fantasy series, (I've put the ones I've read into bold, in case anyone is about to propose them as among the books unread by Chronicles members, and simply list the rest in plain text to see if anyone else has read them.)
> 
> The precursors to the series:
> 
> ...



I've read the following:

Precursors: 1-6, 9-14, 16 & 17
Ballantine AF: 2, 3, 5-7, 10, 13-18 (not certain about Zothique, but probably read it), 20-22, 24-26, 28-20, 32 &33, 35 & 36, 38, 40, probably 41, 47-49 (I'm pretty sure I completed the first volume of The Night Land), 51, 53 (I read the stories in different books),  55, 58, 60, 62, 63, 65; and Prince of Annwn.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 11, 2020)

TBP, I started some of those and didn't finish, but the ones that I did read all the way through:

Forgotten Beasts of Eld - McKillip
Madouc - Vance
Thomas the Rhymer - Kushner
Last Call - Powers
The Other Wind - Le Guin
Ombria in Shadow - McKillip
Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell - Clarke


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## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

Bick said:


> Saying how _many_ you've read on a list doesn't help Baylor - you'd need to say which ones, so the list can be whittled down.



Correction 6 on that list

*The Forgotten Beast of Eld* by Patricia Mckillip
*The Shadow of the Torturer* by Gene Wolfe
*Nift the Lean*  by Micheal Shea
*Bridge of Birds *by Barry Hughart
*Mythago Woods* by Robert Holdstock 
*Declare *by Tim Powers


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

I could make a better claim for having read "all" the major fantasy rather than major sf; I've read the major works of Tolkien, Lewis, Peake, Lovecraft, Dunsany (can't read him now, much, but I read all his BAF books), Morris except for The Sundering Flood (all of the other BAF titles at least twice), Machen, Garner (assuming his latest few novels are not fantasy), Lloyd Alexander (i.e. the 5 Prydain books), Charles Williams, G. MacDonald, Samuel Taylor Coleridge.  But if Cabell is major -- I can't read him.  Whatever it is that I'm looking for when I turn to fantasy it's not that.

In sf I've read what I suppose would be agreed upon as being the major sf novels of H. G. Wells and all or most of the major stories, all the early Asimov novels, only a few Heinleins, the essential early Bradbury, etc.

But we could go on this way for a long time.  What about the prolific sf authors?  Who has read everything or even half of the output of, say, John Brunner?  Or did he write nothing that's major except Stand on Zanzibar and The Sheep Look Up (neither of which I've read)?  What by PKD is major other than The Man in the High Castle, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, and A Scanner Darkly?  What about Silverberg?  

I do very much like this thread idea.


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## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Has anyone else read Maddux's *The Green Kingdom*?  If pulp adventure, horror, etc. are your bag, skip this.



Heard of it bu, have never see a copy of it.


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## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

I*slandia *  by Austin Tappan Wright


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

Who's read *Islandia*?  Not I, though I have a copy.  Anyone here?  I couldn't tell if you have read it, Baylor, or were just running it up the flagpole to see who saluted.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 11, 2020)

I've heard of *Islandia* forever but have never seen a copy.


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

Has anyone read Wells's *The Food of the Gods* or *In the Days of the Comet*?  Not I.

How about Beresford's *The Hampdenshire Wonder*?   Eden Phillpotts's *Saurus*?  Alun Llewellyn's *Strange Invaders*?  Giesy's *Palos of the Dog Star Pack*?  Čapek's *The Absolute at Large*?  These seem to be five classic early-sf novels, but I don't know if I know anyone who's read them -- not I.


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## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

My guess is that there is little or no major sf published since 1940 or so that someone or other at Chrons hasn't read, but that we might have missed a number of the earlier works that get mentioned in books like *Billion-Year Spree*. 

I guess, too, that no one here has read all of the works of some of the major authors who wrote recognized classics and then a great deal of other stuff too, such as Brunner and Silverberg.

What about the Newcastle fantasy reprints?  Note -- I don't say that these are all major works.  This was the series, though, that was kind of the successor to the Ballantine series that Teresa listed.


_The Glittering Plain_, William Morris (September 1973)
_The Saga of Eric Brighteyes_, H. Rider Haggard (March 1974)
_The Food of Death: Fifty-One Tales_, Lord Dunsany (September 1974)
_The Haunted Woman_, David Lindsay (March 1975)
_Aladore_, Sir Henry Newbolt (September 1975)
_She and Allan_, H. Rider Haggard (September 1975)
_Gerfalcon_, Leslie Barringer (March 1976)
_Golden Wings and Other Stories_, William Morris (March 1976)
_Joris of the Rock_, Leslie Barringer (September 1976)
_Heart of the World_, H. Rider Haggard (September 1976)
_The Wonderful Adventures of Phra the Phoenician_, Edwin Lester Arnold (April 1977)
_Child Christopher and Goldilind the Fair_, William Morris (April 1977)
_Shy Leopardess_, Leslie Barringer (October 1977)
_Ayesha: the Return of She_, H. Rider Haggard (October 1977)
_The Fates of the Princes of Dyfed_, Kenneth Morris (April 1978)
_The House of the Wolfings_, William Morris (April 1978)
_Under the Sunset_, Bram Stoker (October 1978)
_Allan Quatermain_, H. Rider Haggard (October 1978)
_The Roots of the Mountains_, William Morris (April 1979)
_Nada the Lily_, H. Rider Haggard (April 1979)
_Jaufry the Knight and the Fair Brunissende_, translated by Alfred Elwes (October 1979)
_The Spirit of Bambatse_, H. Rider Haggard (October 1979)
_When the Birds Fly South_, Stanton A. Coblentz (April 1980)
_Allan's Wife_, H. Rider Haggard (October 1980)
Of those, I have read nos. 2, 4, 6, 10, 14, 18, 20, maybe 22, and 24.  I have but haven't yet read 1, 15, 16, 19.  I had a copy of 3 but gave it away, I think, without having read much, having eventually realized that, for the most part, Dunsany is an author who's had his day with me.


----------



## Danny McG (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Beresford's *The Hampdenshire Wonder*? Eden Phillpotts's *Saurus*? Alun Llewellyn's *Strange Invaders*? Giesy's *Palos of the Dog Star Pack*? Čapek's *The Absolute at Large*? These seem to be five classic early-sf novels, but I don't know if I know anyone who's read them -- not I.


Llewellyn's *Strange Invaders* is the only one of those I've read.
Oh! And *The Food of the* *Gods* from higher up your list


----------



## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

Danny, what'd you think of *Strange Invaders*?


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Has anyone read Wells's *The Food of the Gods* or *In the Days of the Comet*?  Not I.


I've read them both.


----------



## Extollager (May 11, 2020)

What account do we give of ourselves with regard to this Gollancz Masterworks series?









						SF Masterworks
					

SF Masterworks is a series of science fiction books published by Orion Publishing Group through it's imprints Millennium and Gollancz.




					www.worldswithoutend.com
				




Are all of these really "masterworks"?  

I think I've read 1-3, 9, 12, 13, 16, 20, 24, 28, 30, 38, 44, 47, 55, 56, 59, 68, 69, 71, 73-77, 79, 80, 82, 85, 90, 93, 99, 104, 109, 111, 148, 153.


----------



## Bick (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> What account do we give of ourselves with regard to this Gollancz Masterworks series?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can additionally cross off 4, 5, 6, 10, 14, 17, 26, 31, 33, 34, 37, 39, 46, 49, 50, 52, 53, 54, 60, 63, 64, 65, 72, 83, 92, 103, 121, 126, 127, 130, 131, 132, 143, 151, 155, 156, 157, 158, 165, 173

I'd be amazed if between us we've not read all these masterworks.


----------



## Danny McG (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Danny, what'd you think of *Strange Invaders*?


It took some initial getting into with the Commies in their new Ice Age holdfast.
Then these refugees turned up so they just slaughtered them to save resources.
Then loads of giant lizards who somehow lived in snow attacked, no proper explanation as to why there were giant lizards.
A couple of mildly interesting battle scenes but, all in all, a very dull book that I wouldn't reread - ever TBH


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (May 11, 2020)

From the link Extollager posted of SF Masterworks I've read:

*The Time Machine
Flowers for Algernon
The Invisible Man
Grass
Ringworld
Dune 
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
The Left Hand of Darkness
Frankenstein
Doomsday Book
The Door Into Summer
The Midwich Cuckoos*

(Noting that with these Masterworks series it's not just what the editors believe are the best works out there, but also the books they can get the rights to reprint.)


----------



## Hugh (May 11, 2020)

hitmouse said:


> @Teresa Edgerton I have read Dreamquest of Unknown Kadath, and the 2 Kai Lung books on that list.
> 
> I reckon I have read every Jack Vance novel apart from Vandals of the Void. Anyone read it?


I’ve read it.  Apologies if someone’s already said that, but couldn’t see it on my scroll through.


----------



## HareBrain (May 11, 2020)

Would you count David Lindsay as obscure? He has a wiki page and many people know his _A _V_oyage to Arcturus_. I would't mind betting though that there are some of his novels that could count as SFF that no one here has read. Ones I haven't are _The Haunted Woman_ and _The Violet Apple_, and I haven't read all of _Devil's Tor_.

Also, since I never see Colin Wilson mentioned here (an author with a large following, though more for his philosophy), I'd suggest these SF titles by him, which I haven't read:

_Spider World: The Magician
Spider World: Shadowland
The Mind Parasites
The Space Vampires_


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

Anybody read George du Maurier's _The Martian _(1897)?


----------



## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Who's read *Islandia*?  Not I, though I have a copy.  Anyone here?  I couldn't tell if you have read it, Baylor, or were just running it up the flagpole to see who saluted.



Ive not really seen this book mention , so I mentioned it.


----------



## BAYLOR (May 11, 2020)

Extollager said:


> My guess is that there is little or no major sf published since 1940 or so that someone or other at Chrons hasn't read, but that we might have missed a number of the earlier works that get mentioned in books like *Billion-Year Spree*.
> 
> I guess, too, that no one here has read all of the works of some of the major authors who wrote recognized classics and then a great deal of other stuff too, such as Brunner and Silverberg.
> 
> ...



Ive read  Eric Bright Eyes and Allan Quatermain  .  Ive read one  book by Stanton Coblentz, but not that one.   Only two on that list.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> Anybody read George du Maurier's _The Martian _(1897)?


A couple more: Norman Matson, _Flecker's Magic _(1926), later reprinted as _Enchanted Beggar_? You may think it's obscure, but E.M. Forster praised it in _Aspects of the Novel_. 

And how about Robert M. Coates, _The Eater of Darkness_ (1929)? Supposedly Dada-influenced (but not really) SF thriller featuring a death ray.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

Also, I mentioned on another thread Arthur MacArthur's _After the Afternoon _(1942). Greek-mythology-based fantasy. I own it, but have only read maybe the first three chapters.


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## HareBrain (May 11, 2020)

"Have you read Arthur MacArthur's _After the Afternoon_?" is my new favourite tongue-twister.


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## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

And more: John Joseph Meyer, _The Deer-Smellers of Haunted Mountain _(1921). Real book, scout's honor: The Deer-Smellers of Haunted Mountain (1921)


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## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

HareBrain said:


> "Have you read Arthur MacArthur's _After the Afternoon_?" is my new favourite tongue-twister.


It makes you wonder if he intentionally -- or maybe subconsciously! -- picked that title to echo his name.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

Oh, and has anyone actually read Reza Negarestani's _Cyclonopedia _(2008), praised to the heavens by Jeff Vandermeer? Cyclonopedia: Best Horror Novel You've Never Heard Of - Jeff VanderMeer
I've tried. It reads like crap. And I don't mean the supposedly "theoretical" parts. I mean the narrative exposition, which reads like the most cliché-ridden airport novel you've ever laid eyes on. But it's supposed to be a classic in some circles...


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## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

Much more famous: Samuel R. Delany, _Dhalgren _(1974). Has anyone here gotten through it cover to cover? I know I haven't.


----------



## M. Robert Gibson (May 11, 2020)

Over the years I've bought/gained loads of SF/F books and added to my To Be Read pile.
Now, thanks to Goodreads and my cataloguing obsession, here is my *to-read* list, containing only those authors with a Wikipedia page.


Sorceress of the Witch World (Witch World Series 1: Estcarp Cycle, #5)    - Andre Norton
The Dark Light Years    - Brian W. Aldiss
The Malacia Tapestry    - Brian W. Aldiss
The Horned Warrior (Berserker #3)    - Chris Carlsen
Shadow Of The Wolf (Berserker #1)    - Chris Carlsen
Eragon (The Inheritance Cycle, #1)    - Christopher Paolini
King Kobold    - Christopher Stasheff
Derai (Dumarest of Terra, #2)    - E.C. Tubb
The Winds of Gath (Dumarest of Terra #1)    - E.C. Tubb
Kalin (Dumarest of Terra #4)    - E.C. Tubb
Land of Terror (Pellucidar, #6)    - Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Wizard of Venus (Venus, #5)    - Edgar Rice Burroughs
Carson of Venus (Venus, #3)    - Edgar Rice Burroughs
The Berserker Attack    - Fred Saberhagen
Shadowmancer (Shadowmancer, #1)    - G.P. Taylor
Tersias the Oracle (Wormwood, #2)    - G.P. Taylor
Wormwood (Wormwood, #1)    - G.P. Taylor
Kothar: Barbarian Swordsman (Kothar, #1)    - Gardner F. Fox
Operation Ares    - Gene Wolfe
The Winds of Winter (A Song of Ice and Fire, #6)    - George R.R. Martin
A Dream of Spring (A Song of Ice and Fire, #7)    - George R.R. Martin
Space Viking     - H. Beam Piper
Pebble in the Sky (Galactic Empire #3)    - Isaac Asimov
The Stars, Like Dust (Galactic Empire, #1)    - Isaac Asimov
Maildun the Voyager    - James Reeves
The Savage Horde (The Survivalist, #6)    - Jerry Ahern
Runelight (Runemarks, #2)    - Joanne Harris
Explorers of Gor (Gor, #13)    - John Norman
Beasts of Gor (Gor, #12)    - John Norman
Slave Girl of Gor (Gor, #11)    - John Norman
The Tritonian Ring    - L. Sprague de Camp
The Flight of the Horse    - Larry Niven
Flashing Swords! 2    - Lin Carter
Eaters of the Dead    - Michael Crichton
The Black Corridor    - Michael Moorcock
The Shores of Death    - Michael Moorcock
The Blood Red Game    - Michael Moorcock
Masters Of The Pit    - Michael Moorcock
Lord Of The Spiders   -  Michael Moorcock
The Stone God Awakens    - Philip José Farmer
A Spell for Chameleon (Xanth #1)    - Piers Anthony
Murder and Magic (Lord Darcy, #1)    - Randall Garrett
City of a Thousand Suns    - Samuel R. Delany
The Towers of Toron    - Samuel R. Delany
Solaris / Chain of Chance / A Perfect Vacuum    - Stanisław Lem
The Moon People    - Stanton A. Coblentz
The Gunslinger    - Stephen King
The Illearth War (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, #2)    - Stephen R. Donaldson
Suaine and the Crow-God    - Stuart Gordon
One-Eye    - Stuart Gordon
The Weirwoods    - Thomas Burnett Swann
The Farthest Shore (Earthsea Cycle, #3)    - Ursula K. Le Guin

In case anyone is interested in the process, or wants to try it for themselves

Export my Goodreads collection 
Open up the export in a spreadsheet
Filter all books with the 'to-read' Exclusive Shelf and Bookshelves of either fantasy/science-fiction/science-fantasy
Delete all the irrelevant columns
Delete all rows with authors not on Wikipedia
Copy the remaining columns
Paste them here

Simple eh?


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 11, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> Over the years I've bought/gained loads of SF/F books and added to my To Be Read pile.
> Now, thanks to Goodreads and my cataloguing obsession, here is my *to-read* list, containing only those authors with a Wikipedia page.
> 
> 
> ...


I can't possibly imagine that anyone who likes the LeGuin or the Aldiss on there would enjoy the Gor books. Or vice versa.


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## M. Robert Gibson (May 11, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> I can't possibly imagine that anyone who likes the LeGuin or the Aldiss on there would enjoy the Gor books. Or vice versa.


In my younger days, on any visit to a second book shop or charity shop, if the cover mentioned or looked like science fiction or fantasy I would buy it regardless.
That's my excuse for the Gor books


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## Vladd67 (May 11, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> In my younger days, on any visit to a second book shop or charity shop, if the cover mentioned or looked like science fiction or fantasy I would buy it regardless.
> That's my excuse for the Gor books


Mine was I was 14.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 11, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> Over the years I've bought/gained loads of SF/F books and added to my To Be Read pile.
> Now, thanks to Goodreads and my cataloguing obsession, here is my *to-read* list, containing only those authors with a Wikipedia page.
> 
> 
> ...



I've read the Norton and the LeGuin but I am sure many others here have as well.  I've read the Stasheff, the Anthony, and the Garrett, and also the two Delanys but they were part of an omnibus* The Fall of the Towers* (which contains a third book the name of which I can't immediately call to mind).  Pretty sure I've read the Swann, though I may be confusing it with one or more of his other books I read, long, long ago.  I've read some of Burrough's Venus books, but at this late date I can't tell you whether that included those you've listed.


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## J-Sun (May 12, 2020)

This needs to be a modly thread with a cumulative list in the first post which is updated with everyone's replies. I don't know exactly what's going on here.

As Bick mentions, excluding ties and such, I've read all Cherryh's SF and F up to 1988 and all her SF up to 1992, and a few after. Seeing's how she's published twenty Foreigner books and a lot of fantasies since, that isn't all that much of Cherryh anymore, though.  I think Parson's read all the Foreigner books and I'm sure others have read her fantasies. In terms of books published in their lifetimes, I've read all or most all of at least Isaac Asimov, Leigh Brackett, John W. Campbell, Arthur C. Clarke, Greg Egan (from 1992-2008, anyway, with the Pile going to 2010), Robert A. Heinlein, Fritz Leiber, everything solely credited to C. L. Moore (and some Kuttner/Moore/Padgett, et al.), James H. Schmitz, Bruce Sterling (to about 2010), Ted Sturgeon, Norman Spinrad (to 1991), James Tiptree, Jr., A. E. van Vogt (before his second phase that began in the mid-60s), and Vernor Vinge.

As far as the last post, in addition to the two Asimovs (which, coincidentally, are the last two books I've just re-read), I've read all three Burroughs, de Camp's _The Tritonian Ring_, Farmer's _The Stone God Awakens_, Anthony's _A Spell for Chameleon_, and Le Guin's _The Farthest Shore_ and I'm pretty sure I read the Crichton eons ago but could be wrong. Also coincidentally, except for the Asimov and Burroughs (and the Anthony at the time), and despite liking some de Camp, Farmer, and Le Guin, I didn't especially like any of them. The Saberhagen, Piper, and Lem's _Solaris_ are in my own Pile.

Also not sure about the significance of all these (Carlsen, Taylor, Gordon? may be my own ignorance). Maybe there should be a "the title's gotten some number of votes for significance and zero reads" to qualify as one the Chrons has missed.


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## J-Sun (May 12, 2020)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> Much more famous: Samuel R. Delany, _Dhalgren _(1974). Has anyone here gotten through it cover to cover? I know I haven't.


I'm with you. DNF.


----------



## Bick (May 12, 2020)

J-Sun said:


> I'm with you. DNF.


We may need to encourage Samuel Delany to join Chrons, as perhaps the easiest way of ticking that one off.


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## J-Sun (May 12, 2020)

Bick said:


> We may need to encourage Samuel Delany to join Chrons, as perhaps the easiest way of ticking that one off.


Yep, that'd do it. 

Looking back over the rest of the thread, I can't see anything that's been listed that someone hasn't checked off except, as I say, I've read Leiber's _Our Lady of Darkness_.

As far as the SF Masterworks link, I can't follow everyone's numbers, but will say, allowing that I have read Stapledon but can no longer recall which and some might count DNF books either way, I've read 61 of 1-82. The ones I haven't (bold=Pile):

*I Am Legend*
Fifth Head of Cerberus
*Earth Abides
The Drowned World*
The Centauri Device
Non-Stop
Pavane
*Bring the Jubilee
The Complete Roderick
Flow My Tears*
Grass
*The Shrinking Man*
The Dancers at the End of Time
The Simulacra
The Child Garden
Life During Wartime
Roadside Picnic
Mockingbird
The Day of the Triffids
The Inverted World
Dhalgren (DNF)

Something weird happened at that point in the series because my reading goes from about 74% to about 38% but, of 83-178, I _have_ read only 36 (and have about six in the Pile):

The Food of the Gods
The Difference Engine
Hyperion
City
Hellstrom's Hive
Rogue Moon
Dangerous Visions
The Fall of Hyperion
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
War of the Worlds
Synners
Ammonite
Frankenstein
Doomsday Book
Slow River
Wasp
The Gods Themselves
No Enemy But Time
Double Star
Revelation Space
The Door into Summer
Probably most everything in Her Smoke Rose Up Forever
The Word for World Is Forest (this is a novella)
The Wind's Twelve Quarters & The Compass Rose
Dying of the Light
A Fire Upon the Deep
Norstrilia
Always Coming Home (DNF?)
A Deepness in the Sky
Starship Troopers
Neuromancer
The Embedding
Raft
Fools
Lord Valentine's Castle
A Time of Changes

I feel like the Chrons must knock that one out (as long as we get Delany to join) but it would be really interesting to know for certain.


----------



## Hugh (May 12, 2020)

Bick said:


> (3) If anyone suggests a book that we've not "collectively read" - can you prove them wrong by revealing you have actually read it?
> 
> (4) And if we agree there's a book out there we haven't read, that meets the "_mustn't be far to obscure_" rule - who will add it to their TBR pile?  Let's add it to our collective reading experience!



Well, following on from posts by @M. Robert Gibson  and @Vladd67 ,* I suggest that it is very likely that no one has read (or will admit to having read) all 35 volumes of John Norman's Gor series*.  Furthermore, I doubt that there will be a scramble to add them to TBR piles.


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## Cat's Cradle (May 12, 2020)

If it helps, I cover-to-covered Dhalgren in the early 80s, so we can check that one off. Challenging novel. CC


----------



## M. Robert Gibson (May 12, 2020)

J-Sun said:


> Also not sure about the significance of all these (Carlsen, Taylor, Gordon? may be my own ignorance). Maybe there should be a "the title's gotten some number of votes for significance and zero reads" to qualify as one the Chrons has missed.


I agree.  The potential list of books is huge and we need a master list.

Here's a suggestion.  Maybe we limit the book list to only those written by one the Chrons' featured authors.

If so, my list becomes

Sorceress of the Witch World (Witch World Series 1: Estcarp Cycle, #5) - Andre Norton
The Dark Light Years - Brian W. Aldiss
The Malacia Tapestry - Brian W. Aldiss
Operation Ares - Gene Wolfe
The Winds of Winter (A Song of Ice and Fire, #6) - George R.R. Martin
A Dream of Spring (A Song of Ice and Fire, #7) - George R.R. Martin
The Flight of the Horse - Larry Niven
The Black Corridor - Michael Moorcock
The Shores of Death - Michael Moorcock
The Blood Red Game - Michael Moorcock
Masters Of The Pit - Michael Moorcock
Lord Of The Spiders - Michael Moorcock
The Gunslinger - Stephen King
The Illearth War (The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, #2) - Stephen R. Donaldson
The Farthest Shore (Earthsea Cycle, #3) - Ursula K. Le Guin
But then, of course, since these authors are the most popular, it is more likely that their works will have been read.


----------



## M. Robert Gibson (May 12, 2020)

Another suggestion.
What if everyone who is interested nominates one book for the master list.  If their choice gets marked as been read, then they can nominate another book.


----------



## tegeus-Cromis (May 12, 2020)

Cat's Cradle said:


> If it helps, I cover-to-covered Dhalgren in the early 80s, so we can check that one off. Challenging novel. CC


And...? Was it worth it?


----------



## Cat's Cradle (May 12, 2020)

Books that challenge are almost always worth the effort, IMO. It was the most difficult genre work I'd ever attempted (I'd been reading Asimov and Clarke only 5 years earlier, and had transitioned to Delaney through a more-recent love of PK Dick). It was dense and confusing, and very well written. But I remember being fascinated by some of the ideas, and set pieces. But I have a terrible memory for books I've read, and have just a vague outline of the story in memory (it's been almost 40 years).

But I'd never consider reading it again, because I personally didn't take much pleasure from the reading of the book. That's pretty much all I want these days; diversion and enjoyment.


----------



## Avelino de Castro (May 12, 2020)

Bick said:


> Just a bit of fun for the lounge.
> 
> While mowing the lawns, thinking idly of nothing and anything, it occurred to me that of you crossed Baylor and Danny in some sort of teleporting, combining device, much like in _The Fly_, you'd end up with a (handsome) creature who had read almost all science fiction books.
> 
> ...


I wonder if you've taken into account foreign works translated into the English such as Primo Levi's work, and the Carpet Makers by Andreas Esback  The Carpet Makers is a must read for any fans of sf.  I recommend it highly to all readers.


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (May 12, 2020)

Whereas I read* The Carpet Maker*s and wish I could take back the time I spent reading it.  However, that's at least two of us here who have read it (and I seem to remember that it was discussed here several years ago so there are probably several more), so if we ever do compile a master list of books we've (collectively) read it would definitely have a place there.


----------



## Bick (May 12, 2020)

M. Robert Gibson said:


> Another suggestion.
> What if everyone who is interested nominates one book for the master list.  If their choice gets marked as been read, then they can nominate another book.


This was kinda what I had in mind when I started the thread - feel free to run with it!


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (May 12, 2020)

So is the master list supposed to be books we have read, or books we haven't read?


----------



## Toby Frost (May 12, 2020)

Hang on - surely nobody can have read A Dream of Spring yet?


----------



## Bick (May 12, 2020)

Toby Frost said:


> Hang on - surely nobody can have read A Dream of Spring yet?


Books that exist only in an author's imagination don't count, Toby!


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (May 12, 2020)

What about books by those who are or have been Chronicles members?  Does the fact that the writer (a member now or in the past) has read the book count for our purposes here? Or does it only count if other members have read it?


----------



## Extollager (May 13, 2020)

Avelino de Castro said:


> I wonder if you've taken into account foreign works translated into the English such as Primo Levi's work, and the Carpet Makers by Andreas Esback  The Carpet Makers is a must read for any fans of sf.  I recommend it highly to all readers.


That’s a good question.  I certainly wouldn’t have the knowledge to identify very many translated works.  I guess the original posting assumes that a work is major if it is regarded as such by people knowledgeable about sf and fantasy in English (including English translation, so, e.g., works by Verne, Lem, Capek, the Strugatsky brothers, Calvino, Borges, &c *would *qualify.  Am I right about that, Bick?


----------



## Bick (May 13, 2020)

Extollager said:


> I guess the original posting assumes that a work is major if it is regarded as such by people knowledgeable about sf and fantasy in English (including English translation, so, e.g., works by Verne, Lem, Capek, the Strugatsky brothers, Calvino, Borges, &c *would *qualify.  Am I right about that, Bick?


That sounds about right, Extollager.


----------



## Teresa Edgerton (May 13, 2020)

Here is a list I discovered of books published in the Gollancz Fantasy Masterworks line.  It does have some overlaps with the lists already posted in this thread.  I've underlined everything I have read (some of which I have undoubtedly already noted in previous posts but I can't be bothered to go back and look) though not necessarily in the original editions named below or in the Gollancz reprints but in some edition, and not counting things I started to read but did not finish.  I suspect others here can pretty much fill in the rest of the list, since there is little or nothing here that is particularly obscure.


Poul Anderson, *The Broken Sword* (Abelard-Schuman, 1954)
Poul Anderson, *Three Hearts and Three Lions* (Doubleday, 1961)
Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Ray Bradbury, *Something Wicked This Way Comes* (Simon & Schuster, 1962)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Aegypt* (Bantam Spectra, 1987)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Avram Davidson, *The Phoenix and the Mirror* (Doubleday, 1969)
L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, *The Compleat Enchanter: The Magical Misadventures of Harold Shea* (Nelson Doubleday/SFBC, 1975)
Lord Dunsany, *The King of Elfland's Daughter* (Putnam, 1924)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
E. R. Eddison, *Mistress of Mistresses* (Faber and Faber, 1935)
E. R. Eddison, *The Worm Ouroboros* (Jonathan Cape, 1922)
Charles G. Finney, *The Circus of Dr. Lao* (Viking, 1935)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970)
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
John Gardner, *Grendel* (Knopf , 1971)
Randall Garrett, *Lord Darcy* (Nelson Doubleday/SFBC, 1983)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
M. John Harrison, *Viriconium *(Millennium, 2000)
William Hope Hodgson, *The House on the Borderland and Other Novels* (Gollancz, 2002)
Robert Holdstock, *Lavondyss* (Gollancz, 1988)
Robert Holdstock, *Mythago Wood* (Gollancz, 1984)
Robert E. Howard, *The Conan Chronicles: Volume 1: The People of the Black Circle* (Orion/Millennium, 2000)
Robert E. Howard, *The Conan Chronicles: Volume 2: The Hour of the Dragon* (Orion/Gollancz, 2001)
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Rudyard Kipling, *The Mark of the Beast and Other Fantastical Tales* (Orion/Gollancz, 2007)
Ellen Kushner, *Thomas the Rhymer* (Morrow, 1990)
Fritz Leiber, *The First Book of Lankhmar* (Gollancz, 2001)
Fritz Leiber, *The Second Book of Lankhmar* (Gollancz, 2001)
David Lindsay, *A Voyage to Arcturus* (Methuen , 1920)
George R. R. Martin, *Fevre Dream* (Poseidon Press, 1982)
Patricia A. McKillip, *The Forgotten Beasts of Eld* (Atheneum, 1974)
Patricia A. McKillip, *Ombria in Shadow* (Ace, 2002)
Patricia A. McKillip, *The Riddle-Master's Game* (Gollancz, 2001)
Hope Mirrlees, *Lud-in-the-Mist* (Collins, 1926)
Michael Moorcock, *Corum: The Prince in the Scarlet Robe* (Gollancz, 2002)
Michael Moorcock, *Elric* (Gollancz, 2001)
Michael Moorcock, *Gloriana, or The Unfulfill'd Queen* (Allison & Busby, 1978)
Michael Moorcock, *The History of the Runestaff* (Hart-Davis, MacGibbon, 1979)
C. L. Moore, *Black Gods and Scarlet Dreams* (Donald M. Grant, 2002)
Pat Murphy, *The Falling Woman* (Tor, 1986)
Tim Powers, *The Anubis Gates* (Ace, 1983)
Tim Powers, *The Drawing of the Dark* (Ballantine, 1979)
Tim Powers, *Earthquake Weather* (Legend, 1997)
Tim Powers, *Expiration Date* (HarperCollins UK, 1995)
Tim Powers, *Last Call* (Morrow, 1992)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Michael Scott Rohan, *The Anvil of Ice* (Macdonald, 1986)
Geoff Ryman, *"Was…"* (HarperCollins, 1992)
Lucius Shepard, *The Dragon Griaule* (Subterranean, 2012)
Dan Simmons, *Song of Kali* (Bluejay, 1985)
Clark Ashton Smith, *The Emperor of Dreams: Best Fantasy Tales* (Gollancz, 2002)
Michael Swanwick, *The Iron Dragon's Daughter* (Millennium, 1993)
Sheri S. Tepper, *Beauty* (Doubleday Foundation, 1991)
Jack Vance, *Lyonesse* (series, 1989)
Jack Vance, *Lyonesse II: The Green Pearl and Madouc* (Orion/Gollancz, 2003)
Jack Vance, *Tales of the Dying Earth* (Orion/Millennium, 2000)
Evangeline Walton, *The Mabinogion* (Gollancz, 2003)
Jack Williamson, *Darker Than You Think* (Fantasy Press, 1948)
Gene Wolfe, *The Citadel of the Autarch* (Timescape, 1983)
Gene Wolfe, *The Claw of the Conciliator* (Simon & Schuster/Timescape, 1981)
Gene Wolfe, *Peace* (Harper & Row, 1975)
Gene Wolfe, *The Shadow of the Torturer* (Simon & Schuster, 1980)
Gene Wolfe, *The Sword of the Lictor* (Timescape, 1982)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)
Roger Zelazny, *The Chronicles of Amber* (Orion, 2000)


----------



## Bick (May 13, 2020)

Okay, the way to approach this list is to remove the books you've read hereon, and see if we can remove them all.  I'll take out Terea's underlined books and also any I can add.


Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Aegypt* (Bantam Spectra, 1987)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970)
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
John Gardner, *Grendel* (Knopf , 1971)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
William Hope Hodgson, *The House on the Borderland and Other Novels* (Gollancz, 2002)
Robert Holdstock, *Lavondyss* (Gollancz, 1988)
Robert Holdstock, *Mythago Wood* (Gollancz, 1984)
Robert E. Howard, *The Conan Chronicles: Volume 2: The Hour of the Dragon* (Orion/Gollancz, 2001)
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Rudyard Kipling, *The Mark of the Beast and Other Fantastical Tales* (Orion/Gollancz, 2007)
Fritz Leiber, *The First Book of Lankhmar* (Gollancz, 2001)
Fritz Leiber, *The Second Book of Lankhmar* (Gollancz, 2001)
George R. R. Martin, *Fevre Dream* (Poseidon Press, 1982)
Michael Moorcock, *Corum: The Prince in the Scarlet Robe* (Gollancz, 2002)
Michael Moorcock, *Gloriana, or The Unfulfill'd Queen* (Allison & Busby, 1978)
Pat Murphy, *The Falling Woman* (Tor, 1986)
Tim Powers, *The Anubis Gates* (Ace, 1983)
Tim Powers, *Earthquake Weather* (Legend, 1997)
Tim Powers, *Expiration Date* (HarperCollins UK, 1995)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Geoff Ryman, *"Was…"* (HarperCollins, 1992)
Dan Simmons, *Song of Kali* (Bluejay, 1985)
Clark Ashton Smith, *The Emperor of Dreams: Best Fantasy Tales* (Gollancz, 2002)
Michael Swanwick, *The Iron Dragon's Daughter* (Millennium, 1993)
Jack Vance, *Tales of the Dying Earth* (Orion/Millennium, 2000)
Jack Williamson, *Darker Than You Think* (Fantasy Press, 1948)
Gene Wolfe, *Peace* (Harper & Row, 1975)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)
Roger Zelazny, *The Chronicles of Amber* (Orion, 2000)

These are currently left on Gollanz Fantasy Masterworks list from Teresa - re-post with more removed if you've read them.


----------



## Alex The G and T (May 13, 2020)

I'm having serious cognitive dissonance over the recent dates and renamed collections in the above posted lists.

As someone also noted, upthread, it's difficult enough to remember details of vast amounts of reading over more than half a century; without trying to figure TOC's of renamed collections.

That said Here's my nominations for removal from the lists:
_Mythago_ Wood, for certs.  I've read that several times. 

_The House on the Borderline_ sounds familiar.

Chronicles of Amber.  A frequent flyer in Chrons discussions, over the years.  I've read all of them, as many of us have.

It would be tough to find a Fritz Leiber I haven't read, certainly everything Fafrd and Mouser.  Currently, in fact, I'm re-reading an e-book re release of the whole lot of them. (Under _whatever_ Title, I'm not going upstairs to check the kindle, at this moment.) So take the two Lankmar collections off the list.

The Conan Chronicles: I've probably read most of them.  Not much help from the name of the collection, without a TOC.

Likewise Vance's _Tales of Dying Earth._

Likewise the Kipling Stories.

Likewise, the Clark Ashton Smith collection.

I've read some Leigh bracket collections; not necessarily what may or may not be in the '05 reissue.

Moorcock: anything _"Eternal Hero"_ in all guises.  Also a frequent flyer in Chrons discussions over the years.  Off the list.

I've read _Anubis Gates_, not sure about the other Tim Powers,  Maybe _Earthquake weather_, not _Expiration date_.









Likewise


----------



## Toby Frost (May 13, 2020)

I've read *Fevre Dream* (excellent) and *Gloriana* (not so excellent). I've definitely read Kipling's story "The Mark of the Beast" and some other short stories by him, but I don't think I've read that particular collection.


----------



## Hugh (May 13, 2020)

Following on from those already crossed out above by @Alex The G and T and @Toby Frost , you can also tick off

Tim Powers, *Earthquake Weather* (Legend, 1997)
Tim Powers, *Expiration Date* (HarperCollins UK, 1995)
Michael Swanwick, *The Iron Dragon's Daughter* (Millennium, 1993)


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## Elckerlyc (May 13, 2020)

I have read 

Robert Holdstock, *Lavondyss* (Gollancz, 1988)
Robert Holdstock, *Mythago Wood* (Gollancz, 1984)
Tim Powers, *The Anubis Gates* (Ace, 1983)
Tim Powers, *Earthquake Weather* (Legend, 1997)
Tim Powers, *Expiration Date* (HarperCollins UK, 1995)
Dan Simmons, *Song of Kali* (Bluejay, 1985)
Jack Vance, *Tales of the Dying Earth* (Orion/Millennium, 2000)
Gene Wolfe, *Peace* (Harper & Row, 1975)
Roger Zelazny, *The Chronicles of Amber* (Orion, 2000)


After also having removed the books read by @Hugh, @Alex The G and T  and @Toby Frost the list now reads:

Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Aegypt* (Bantam Spectra, 1987)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970) - It's on my TBR. I'm positive it has been read by many others.
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
John Gardner, *Grendel* (Knopf , 1971)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
Robert E. Howard, *The Conan Chronicles: Volume 2: The Hour of the Dragon* (Orion/Gollancz, 2001) - probably read by Alex
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Pat Murphy, *The Falling Woman* (Tor, 1986)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Geoff Ryman, *"Was…"* (HarperCollins, 1992)
Jack Williamson, *Darker Than You Think* (Fantasy Press, 1948)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)


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## J-Sun (May 13, 2020)

In addition to some others already removed, like the Holdstocks, I've read about 9/12 of the Brackett (which I'm leaving on the list) and Pat Murphy's _*The Falling Woman*_ and Jack Williamson's _*Darker Than You Think*_ (which I'm removing). (Finney and Pratt (and some Howard) are in the Pile.)

Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Aegypt* (Bantam Spectra, 1987)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970) - It's on my TBR. I'm positive it has been read by many others.
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
John Gardner, *Grendel* (Knopf , 1971)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
Robert E. Howard, *The Conan Chronicles: Volume 2: The Hour of the Dragon* (Orion/Gollancz, 2001) - probably read by Alex
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Geoff Ryman, *"Was…"* (HarperCollins, 1992)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)


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## The Big Peat (May 13, 2020)

Removing Aegypt and the Conan Chronicles vol 2

Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970) - It's on my TBR. I'm positive it has been read by many others.
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
John Gardner, *Grendel* (Knopf , 1971)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Geoff Ryman, *"Was…"* (HarperCollins, 1992)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Here are some genre works that might have been read just by me -- though I wouldn't be prepared to fight for them all being "major."

Benson's *Lord of the World *(eschatological sf)
Hogg's *Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner* (fantasy)
Jefferies's *After London; or, Wild London *(sf)
Lynch's *Menace from the Moon* (sf)
Mead's *Mary's Country* (sf)
O'Brien's *Voyage to Alpha Centauri* (religious sf)
O'Neill's *Land Under England *(sf)
Solovyov's *Tale of the Antichrist *(eschatological)
Vodolazkin's *Laurus* and *The Aviator* (fantasy and sf respectively)


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Another one perhaps read only by me -- this is a satirical futuristic novella by the noted "Fourth Inkling"):


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## Bick (May 15, 2020)

Can you not remove any from the Masterworks list Extollager?
(It's not really necessary to list obscure stuff that's been read, only to tick off suggestions of what's not been read, if you're read them).


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## Danny McG (May 15, 2020)

Hugh said:


> I suggest that it is very likely that no one has read (or will admit to having read) all 35 volumes of John Norman's Gor series


Well er, you can knock off volumes 1-24 from the list.
My father in law from my first marriage had those, he was forever pressing them on me "Here, try this one now, bloody good stuff" and then discussing plots with me the following week on our next visit.
To be fair he had some good SF books as well


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Bick said:


> Can you not remove any from the Masterworks list Extollager?



No... I hardly ever read fantasy published later than about 1970.  What a lot of very recent books to be labeled as "masterworks"!  We must be living in a glorious age of literary creativity to put the Elizabethans to shame.


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## Victoria Silverwolf (May 15, 2020)

Removing _Grendel _and _Was_.  I can't honestly remember if I read _Time and Again_ or another of Finney's time fantasies.

Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
Jonathan Carroll, *Voice of Our Shadow* (Viking, 1983)
John Crowley, *Little, Big* (Bantam, 1981)
Lord Dunsany, *Time and the Gods* (Heinemann, 1906)
Jack Finney, *Time and Again* (Simon & Schuster, 1970) 
John M. Ford, *The Dragon Waiting* (Timescape, 1983)
Ken Grimwood, *Replay* (Arbor House, 1987)
John James, *Votan and Other Novels* (Orion/Gollancz, 2014)
Fletcher Pratt, *The Well of the Unicorn* (Sloane , 1948)
Jerry Yulsman, *Elleander Morning* (St. Martin's, 1984)


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## Parson (May 15, 2020)

J-Sun said:


> I think Parson's read all the Foreigner books and I'm sure others have read her fantasies.



I have not read all the Foreigner books. I stopped reading them about book 10, and there are now 21 books in the series. --- I didn't stop for any reason other than I started reading books that were much, much, cheaper.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 15, 2020)

Extollager said:


> No... I hardly ever read fantasy published later than about 1970.  What a lot of very recent books to be labeled as "masterworks"!  We must be living in a glorious age of literary creativity to put the Elizabethans to shame.



So many more people have the ability to write and to have what they have written published.  Of course a lot of the books published each year are bad and a lot are mediocre, but if only a small percentage of those are extraordinarily good, that is still a great many books—enough I imagine to put any previous era to shame.  That is the advantage of progress: higher literacy, more time to write, more chances to get one's work before the public.  Had the Elizabethans the same advantages, the era might have been even more glorious than it was.


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

I’ve read *The Well of the Unicorn*.


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## Bick (May 15, 2020)

Extollager said:


> I’ve read *The Well of the Unicorn*.


I expect you've read the Dunsany too?


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## tegeus-Cromis (May 15, 2020)

Victoria Silverwolf said:


> Removing _Grendel _and _Was_.  I can't honestly remember if I read _Time and Again_ or another of Finney's time fantasies.
> 
> Leigh Brackett, *Sea Kings of Mars and Otherworldly Stories* (Gollancz, 2005)
> Jonathan Carroll, *The Land of Laughs* (Viking, 1980)
> ...


@Stephen Palmer raved about _Little, Big _on here not so long ago, so I assume he's read that one. Me, I'm still only about 100 pages into it. New things keep cropping up that I find myself reading instead...


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Bick said:


> I expect you've read the Dunsany too?


If all of it was reprinted in the three Ballantine books of Dunsany stories, then yes, but offhand I’m not sure it was.  I imagine most of it was, at least.


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## J-Sun (May 15, 2020)

Parson said:


> I have not read all the Foreigner books. I stopped reading them about book 10, and there are now 21 books in the series. --- I didn't stop for any reason other than I started reading books that were much, much, cheaper.



Oh, sorry - I knew you'd read a bunch but didn't realize you'd stopped. I guess Cherryh keeps making new fans but I wonder how many old fans fall off along the way for one reason or another (such as sheer exhaustion). And I wonder who can just pick up in the middle of the Foreigner series - if you left off at #10, did anyone pick up at #11? (Not to derail the thread - just thinking out loud.)


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## Venusian Broon (May 15, 2020)

Bick said:


> Just a bit of fun for the lounge.
> 
> 
> 
> (2) I've set a slightly daft hypothesis up - _that between us we've read everything_ - can you specifically challenge the hypothesis and think of a SFF book we haven't read, or identify an author who is under-read among the whole reading membership?



Okay, challenge accepted....

My hypothesis is that we haven't read everything. A fair chunk, but probably not that close. 

I looked up the British Library, which is one of the three reference libraries that is required to store everything that is published in the UK. From a very rough search for SF, Fantasy and Horror it appears they have ~47,000 books. (If this count contains overcounting, I'm not sure - it seems that it doesn't, in that previous editions are put in the list as part of a 'related catalogue' and do not appear to be counted by the search engine, however some books do seem to appear multiple times. But only the oldest and biggest like War of the Worlds. So maybe overcounting might remove 5%???) 

Now these are just SFF&H books published in the UK, so really for a world-wide market and including non-English, how many more would you add for the US market that are different and everywhere else? 

Anyway, just taking that 47k at face value. 

How many regulars are there here on the forum? i,e who is 'us'? 

Let's say 100. 

So that means we will have to have read 470 SFFH books each. And that number of books has to be books that no one else has read to fulfill your quest. That is going to be a kicker. 

Now, I know for myself personally as I like Excel sheets, that I own 210 SFFH books that I've read. I've got at least a dozen+ waiting to be read and there are books that I've definitely read but I don't own. But nothing that is going to get me to 470 for SFFH alone. However, I'd guess that most of the books in my list will have been read by lots of others. 

So...given that the 47,000 figure is likely to be too low as it is just for the UK, and that I think we will have generally read a lot of the same things, I'd guess that we're probably not close. 20-30% of the total being optimistic ??? There will be a lot of obscure SFFH (i.e. sh*te) that will be difficult for us to dredge up...

(Of course you could say that the 'us' is the 18,000 or so members on the Forum. And if they were all real, then we'd only need to have read 3-4 books each that no one else has read to reach the total. Still, I do think there will be a large number of novels that will still be obscure and forgotten, even with such a big sample.) 

Anyway, just a thought


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## Elckerlyc (May 15, 2020)

So, what you're saying is that we should establish:
a. the number of regular, SF and Fantasy reading, chroners currently active on this board.
b. the average number of books (a) will have read.
c. the percentage of (b) read by (a) that nobody else will have read.
so we can approximate the number of unique books read by (a).
Which, given the number of new publications each year alone, will be a negligible quantity.

(just thinking, with tongue in cheek)


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## Venusian Broon (May 15, 2020)

Elckerlyc said:


> So, what you're saying is that we should establish:
> a. the number of regular, SF and Fantasy reading, chroners currently active on this board.
> b. the average number of books (a) will have read.
> c. the percentage of (b) read by (a) that nobody else will have read.
> ...



To a first approximation, why not?  

However I wasn't suggesting we should go that route, just thinking about the big picture.

My guess is that if I were to put the list of SF books I've read, virtually all of them will have been read by most or fair number of everyone here. There might be a couple that are unique to me, but not many.

EDIT oh, I'm not sure about self-pubbing and what the British Library does with these. I _think _that if you get an ISBN for a book, the library 'officially has to get a copy'. But it might be the authors responsiblity to put it there. At least that's what I had to do with my PhD thesis which was self-published (the other two libraries in the UK are at Cambridge and Oxford store all these thesis)


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## Hugh (May 15, 2020)

dannymcg said:


> Well er, you can knock off volumes 1-24 from the list.
> My father in law from my first marriage had those, he was forever pressing them on me "Here, try this one now, bloody good stuff" and then discussing plots with me the following week on our next visit.
> To be fair he had some good SF books as well


Sterling work, dannymcg, sterling work!
That still leaves volumes 25 - 35 of the John Norman  Gor saga that need to be ticked off the list.


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Venusian, Bick's original post suggested we see if Chrons people have read "everything" that qualifies as "major."  With that limiter, we end up with an uncertain number, but far fewer than 47,000.  

I myself would approve a definition of "major" that isn't the same as "classic," but does presume that for a work to be "major" it's seemly that it should have been before the world for at least, say, 10 or 15 years.  This would restrain that common phenomenon whereby brand-new books are hailed as "major" or as "masterpieces" by reviewers before more than a few people have even had the chance to read the books in question.  

This time limitation would have the practical value of allowing time for the "major" books to be identified as such in books about the field.  Such books could be a really good resource for us as we seek to identify major works of sf.  It will be found, I have no doubt, that such books proffer far fewer than 47,000 books -- even ambitious books like Peter Nicholls' *Science Fiction Encyclopedia* from about 40 years ago.  I don't know what the best recent equivalent to Nicholls would be.  Nicholls did offer some evaluation.  For sheer comprehensiveness, one would be thinking of something like Tuck's old multi-volume bibliography, which no doubt caught a great many sf works that are not major, but which we might take account of if the intention here really is to consider whether we have read "everything."


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## Parson (May 15, 2020)

You are right that "major" lies in the eyes of the beholders. Here are a couple of ideas which might shake that number down a bit from a S.F. perspective.

Measurables:
   1. Major might mean that its sold at least X number of copies.  (500,000?)
   2. Major might mean that its had at least X number of reprints.  (5?)
   3. Major might mean that it has/was in print for at least X number of decades.  (2?)
   4. Major might mean that it's won a major award. (Hugo, Nebula,  .... )

Significant but subjective qualifications
   1. Major might mean that it's considered to be "must" reading in the genre.  (Ender's Game, Dune .... )
   2. Major might mean that it's the most widely known books of a well known author.  (Asimov's Foundation Trilogy, McCaffery's Dragon's Dawn ... )
   3. Major might mean that it's part of the public consciousness. (Frankenstein, 1984, ....)

If we take some combination of these as our threshold for "major" I'd bet the "active" chronners would have read them all.


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Check here, please:





__





						A definitive (?) list of classic SF
					

I found this allegedly definitive list of classic SF on line here.  The Classics of Science Fiction list, compiled by James Wallace Harris and Anthony Bernardo, is an attempt to create a definitive list of the best Science Fiction books. Harris and Bernardo collected 28 different recommended and...




					www.sffchronicles.com
				




We've read all of these, surely -- right?


----------



## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

And we've read all of these, right?  One hundred and ten titles.  Or not -- Nicola Griffiths's *Ammonite*?  That's new to me....





__





						Classics of Science Fiction
					

Classics of Science Fiction identifies the books and   short stories that are most remembered based on how often they are cited by awards,   best-of-lists, polls, editors, scholars and other sources of recognition.



					csfquery.com


----------



## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

And here is a list of stories rather than books, if we want to get into that subject.









						Short Stories by Rank
					

[total citations] – Title link goes to more information about the story. [16] “Bloodchild” (1984) by Octavia E. Butler [14] “Day Million” (1966) by Frederik Pohl [14] …




					classicsofsciencefiction.com
				




Here's another.









						What if SFWA Revoted on the Science Fiction Hall of Fame in 2020?
					

The original volume one of The Science Fiction Hall of Fame edited by Robert Silverberg came out in 1970 — 50 years ago. It contained 26 stories that the SFWA members voted on as the best sho…




					classicsofsciencefiction.com
				




I hope it will be felt that I'm trying to be helpful!


----------



## J-Sun (May 15, 2020)

Extollager said:


> And we've read all of these, right?  One hundred and ten titles.  Or not -- Nicola Griffiths's *Ammonite*?  That's new to me....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've read _Ammonite_, as well as her _Slow River_. (I even bought her detective novel or whatever it is - I forget the name - but never got around to that one.) If I remember right, it was Norman Spinrad giving _Slow River_ a good review that had me check her out.

It's not a very good batting average, but I can take that list down to

The Handmaid's Tale  - Margaret Atwood
The Female Man  - Joanna Russ
*Earth Abides  - George R. Stewart
Solaris  - Stanislaw Lem*
The Book of the New Sun  - Gene Wolfe
The Sparrow  - Mary Doria Russell
*Last and First Men  - Olaf Stapledon
The Day of the Triffids  - John Wyndham*
Snow Crash  - Neal Stephenson
A Wrinkle in Time  - Madeleine L'Engle
Dhalgren  - Samuel R. Delany
*Star Maker  - Olaf Stapledon
The Mote in God's Eye  - Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle*
The Hunger Games  - Suzanne Collins
*Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea  - Jules Verne*
The Windup Girl  - Paolo Bacigalupi
Dragonflight  - Anne McCaffrey
Roadside Picnic  - Arkady Strugatsky, Boris Strugatsky
*We  - Yevgeny Zamyatin*
China Mountain Zhang  - Maureen F. McHugh
*The Drowned World  - J. G. Ballard
I Am Legend  - Richard Matheson
The Road  - Cormac McCarthy
Altered Carbon  - Richard K. Morgan*
Grass  - Sheri S. Tepper
*Journey to the Center of the Earth  - Jules Verne*
Out of the Silent Planet  - C. S. Lewis
The Crystal World  - J. G. Ballard
*A Door into Ocean  - Joan Slonczewski
Odd John  - Olaf Stapledon*
The Time Traveler's Wife  - Audrey Niffenegger

The bolds are in the Pile, again, I "read" but didn't finish Dhalgren, can't remember what Stapledon I've read, want to get Roadside Picnic (but what would be the point), have a different Russ, have read a couple of the Claw-whatever Wolfe books but can never remember if those are "The Book of the New Sun" or not, I've read some McCaffrey but don't remember which one any more, may have read the L'Engle when I was really, really, young, etc.I I'm sure somebody can remove all these, though, as they're pretty big deals or very popular or whatever.


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## J-Sun (May 15, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Check here, please:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a much better list, IMO, and - other than those few I mentioned above which are common to both lists - I've read all of those except _Camp Concentration_ and _Hothouse_, and I believe someone mentioned having read _Hothouse_ so, if we've got anyone whose done the Disch (and if they've read more than one, I guess they've "done the Disches"), that list is covered.


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Yes, I've read *Camp Concentration* and *Hothouse* too.


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## hitmouse (May 15, 2020)

J-Sun said:


> I've read _Ammonite_, as well as her _Slow River_. (I even bought her detective novel or whatever it is - I forget the name - but never got around to that one.) If I remember right, it was Norman Spinrad giving _Slow River_ a good review that had me check her out.
> 
> It's not a very good batting average, but I can take that list down to
> 
> ...


Ok

This is very difficult on a phone. 

Assume the bolds are unclaimed as yet. I have read:
Earth Abides
First and Last Men
Day if the Triffids
20000leagues
Drowned World
Journey to the Centre of the Earth


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

I've read *I Am Legend* and *The Road*, but so have bunches of people here, I'm sure.


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## Elckerlyc (May 15, 2020)

And I have read:

Earth Abides  - George R. Stewart
The Book of the New Sun  - Gene Wolfe
The Sparrow  - Mary Doria Russell
The Day of the Triffids  - John Wyndham
Snow Crash  - Neal Stephenson
The Mote in God's Eye  - Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle
The Hunger Games  - Suzanne Collins
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea  - Jules Verne
Altered Carbon  - Richard K. Morgan
Grass  - Sheri S. Tepper
Journey to the Center of the Earth  - Jules Verne


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## Extollager (May 15, 2020)

Hasn’t anyone read *Solaris*?  If really no one has, I could probably get to my copy fairly soon.

Somebody here at Chrons read *We*, I’m sure.


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## Victoria Silverwolf (May 16, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Hasn’t anyone read *Solaris*?  If really no one has, I could probably get to my copy fairly soon.
> 
> Somebody here at Chrons read *We*, I’m sure.



I have read both of those.


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## Extollager (May 16, 2020)

Victoria Silverwolf said:


> I have read both of those.



So are we down to just the two Stapledon books, *Star Maker* and* Odd John*, as ones that nobody here has read from the list given above--





__





						Collective Chronicles Reading Experience - Have We Read Everything?
					

I have not read all the Foreigner books. I stopped reading them about book 10, and there are now 21 books in the series. --- I didn't stop for any reason other than I started reading books that were much, much, cheaper.   Oh, sorry - I knew you'd read a bunch but didn't realize you'd stopped. I...




					www.sffchronicles.com


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## Victoria Silverwolf (May 16, 2020)

Extollager said:


> So are we down to just the two Stapledon books, *Star Maker* and* Odd John*, as ones that nobody here has read from the list given above--
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Actually, I have read _Last and First Men _and _Star Maker _(and _Sirius _and _Odd John_, for that matter, as well as lesser-known works such as the incomplete _Four Encounters _[it was supposed to be ten, but he died before finishing it] and _Nebula Maker_, the early version of _Star Maker_. )

Stapledon rules OK.


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## Extollager (May 16, 2020)

So Chrondom has read all of those books.  I thought maybe not all the Stapledon.  I should’ve figured they too had been read!


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## BAYLOR (May 16, 2020)

*Memoirs Found in A Bathtub * By Stanislaw Lem
*Liege Killer *by Christopher Heinz
*Doomstar* by Edmond Hamilton
*The Dark Chamber * by Lenard Cline
*The Island At the Top of the World * by Ian Cameron
*The Killing Star *by Charles Pelligrino  and George Zebrowski


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## Extollager (May 16, 2020)

These are major works you’ve read, Baylor?


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## BAYLOR (May 17, 2020)

Extollager said:


> These are major works you’ve read, Baylor?



Read them all , yes   All terrific books  Lem's book *Memoirs Found in a Bathtub *is an excellent read 
Christopher  Heinz has writer a number novels , is most famous being the  Paratwa Trilogy .  Not as famous as some but a superb writer none  less 
Edmond Hamilton needs no introduction , Captain Future  . The novel *Doomstar *is one of lesser known works and it a quite good .
Leonard Cline is primarily known for this book *The Dark Chamber *of which Lovecraft greatly admired.
Ian Cameron wrote  adventure novels of which this his most well known  book . *The Island at the top of the World  *is a cracking good read . the Disney movie adaptation while competently made is very lacking in comparison
Goege Zebrowski and Charles Pelligrino are both very talented writers.   The is novel *The Killing Star *is a first science fiction adventure and its thrilling read !


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## Extollager (May 17, 2020)

OK -- thanks, Baylor, for the clarification!  I'll bet there are two or three there that nobody else has read.  Now that J. D. Worthington is no longer posting here, for example, you might be the only person here who's read the Cline novel.


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## J-Sun (May 17, 2020)

Probably no one is still concerned with this and it isn't really relevant to the point of this thread but just for anyone who might be casually using these lists:



Extollager said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Extollager said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



...those are actually different versions of the same list (we'd already puzzled that out in the original thread, but I'd forgotten) and the newer the version, the worse the list, probably. Either way, it's not very well done for its purposes: when you take it down to a minimum of two citations, you get a list of 999 "books" but there are many omnibus items with some or all the constituents listed separately (e.g., the Dorsai books, Vorkosigan books, etc.) when, if only omnibuses or individual titles were listed, their counts would be higher and, even worse, some things are listed by variant titles (e.g. _Under Pressure_/_The Dragon in the Sea_) when those are absolutely cites of the same book. Some of the books, by date, don't even exist, though some variant does (e.g., a 1988 _The Rediscovery of Man_ is either an alternate title for the 1975 _Best of_ or refers to the _Complete Stories_ from 1993). There's even a story listed ("The Machine Stops") when it's supposed to be a list of books (unless, again, doubtfully, a mis-dated collection is intended). Still, aside from its ideological weighting, it's a cool idea and generally gets the idea across, but could use some work in execution.


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## BAYLOR (May 17, 2020)

Extollager said:


> OK -- thanks, Baylor, for the clarification!  I'll bet there are two or three there that nobody else has read.  Now that J. D. Worthington is no longer posting here, for example, you might be the only person here who's read the Cline novel.



I think J D. Worthington  has read more books then all us put together.


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## Parson (May 17, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> I think J D. Worthington  has read more books then all us put together.



I'm sure that he remembers them better than all of us combined!


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 17, 2020)

J D reads carefully and thoughtfully, and so is able to remember and discuss what he reads.
Whether this means he has read more books than the rest of us, only he could say.


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 17, 2020)

Venusian Broon said:


> So that means we will have to have read 470 SFFH books each. And that number of books has to be books that no one else has read to fulfill your quest. That is going to be a kicker.



Oh, I am sure that I have read many times that number of SFFH books (especially if we include, as we seem to be doing, children's books and YA) and I expect there are many here who could say the same.  But, as you say, the kicker is how many of those books have not been read by other members? When it comes to books that are considered major works there will undoubtedly be a large amount of overlap between us.

Another factor is how many books have we read that we actually remember reading.  For those of us in our sixties and seventies (and anyone here who is even older) we may have forgotten more books than we remember.  Which would actually make the possibility of Chrons members having read everything major more likely, but how could we establish that if we don't even remember if we've read some of the books on the lists that have been posted even when we see the titles right there in front of us.  I know there are a few books left on the lists that I _think_ I've read but am not sure, and what about the ones I've forgotten entirely?  Surely I am not alone in that respect.

So this is an entertaining thread, but I don't think we are ever going to reach a definite conclusion.  (And even if we did, it might be wrong, considering the number of failing memories.)  Which is not to say that we shouldn't keep trying.  I think we will at least establish that Chrons readers have read a very broad range of speculative fiction.


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## Margaret Note Spelling (May 18, 2020)

I don't think Brandon Sanderson's fantasies have been mentioned yet...I've read all of Mistborn plus a couple of the standalones, but _not_ gotten into The Stormlight Archive yet. Anybody read all those three hulking behemoths?

Also, are we including graphic novels and comics? (Don't tell me Superman isn't fantasy!) Have we collectively read all the Superman (and similar) comics? I've only flipped through a few myself, so sorry.

This is fun. But yeah, it would be hard to be sure. Maybe if someone was willing to do a lot of work getting the data. Not me!

Or, why don't we just define the "major works of fantasy and sf" as the ones that, collectively, we've all read? Anything that we haven't read, _isn't_ a major work of fantasy and sf.  Hypothesis proven!


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## Teresa Edgerton (May 18, 2020)

That would be one approach.  But I doubt all the active Chrons members have posted in this thread.  One or two members might turn up at any time and clear away all the listed stories no one has yet claimed to have read.

I think we would be better off leaving off graphic novels and comics. Just limiting ourselves to novels and collections, if we compiled everything that all of us have read, I'm thinking the list would be of monstrous length.


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## BAYLOR (May 18, 2020)

Teresa Edgerton said:


> J D reads carefully and thoughtfully, and so is able to remember and discuss what he reads.
> Whether this means he has read more books than the rest of us, only he could say.



I miss J D. I wish he would come back.


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## Extollager (May 18, 2020)

Yep.  But he's been very busy.

I agree with Teresa about omitting graphic novels and comics.  Apples and oranges, for one thing.   If Chrons adds them to this discussion, then I'll just go ahead and suggest while we're at it that we thrown in lyrics for music.  "In the Year 2525" anyone?  No.  Let's please not go there.  The original poster was, I'm pretty sure, thinking solely of regular books.


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## Bick (May 18, 2020)

Extollager said:


> Yep.  But he's been very busy.
> 
> I agree with Teresa about omitting graphic novels and comics.  Apples and oranges, for one thing.   If Chrons adds them to this discussion, then I'll just go ahead and suggest while we're at it that we thrown in lyrics for music.  "In the Year 2525" anyone?  No.  Let's please not go there.  The original poster was, I'm pretty sure, thinking solely of regular books.


Yes, agreed, and yes, I was.


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## Skeeve (May 21, 2020)

Aren't we simply fortunate? We are always in a hunt for a good book to read, and look... there is so much to discover. Sometimes after finishing a great book I've thought that now I'm done, read all the worthy ones. Boy am I wrong. Here we are - having all the books of the world like stars in the sky just waiting. Today I started "The Three-Body Problem" by Liu Cixin and the beginning was a little odd or perhaps slow. But I thought - give it time, continue reading, it has to get better. And then it suddenly opens like a blossom, a fascinating page-turner. So, in my humble opinion, we who enjoy wandering in wonderworlds, are blessed with a never-ending fairy tale. Thank you, mom, for all the books we had at home. They ignited a flame that is still flashing. Well, I became too solemn, I'm just an ordinary fellow who likes to read. Here are some little bit less known great authors from me, too. Mostly time-travelers. Victor Zugg, Michael Mammay, Mark J. Rose.


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## M. Robert Gibson (May 22, 2020)

*Collective Chronicles Reading Experience - Have We Read Everything?*

Ignoring all the criteria set out out in the original post, here's a rather glib answer to the question that has just occurred to me...

No, because if we had there would be no unfound books in the Book Search forum


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## Alex The G and T (May 22, 2020)

Well, for my part. I'm just as good at forgetting titles and authors as anyone posting a query in book search.


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## Extollager (Jul 9, 2020)

Bick's first posting asked, "Have we read close to *all major SF and F works*?  I'm not talking all short stories published, as there are way too many thousand insignificant works by forgotten authors, but let's say "books" as in collections, anthologies or novels."

Is it looking like we have?


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## Ray Zdybrow (Oct 17, 2021)

tegeus-Cromis said:


> Oh, and has anyone actually read Reza Negarestani's _Cyclonopedia _(2008), praised to the heavens by Jeff Vandermeer? Cyclonopedia: Best Horror Novel You've Never Heard Of - Jeff VanderMeer
> I've tried. It reads like crap. And I don't mean the supposedly "theoretical" parts. I mean the narrative exposition, which reads like the most cliché-ridden airport novel you've ever laid eyes on. But it's supposed to be a classic in some circles...


i was interested in "Cyclonopedia" from various rabbit-holes I went down during lockdown. Read some extracts and it was as you say. Maybe I  would have thought the same about "Naked Lunch" tho... Negarestani did a comic that looks interesting but it's out of print, always about to be reissued.
 I listened to one of his podcasts in Ye Olde Lockdown and he seemed to be advocating some sort of Stalinist/Chinese Communist Party state, I may have misunderstood.
I believe he was in the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit (CCRU) at Warwick University with the likes of Mark Fisher and Hari Kunzru, and Nick Land.
Perhaps that gives "Cyclonopedia" an intellectual sheen which outshines the actual book.


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