# Red Sonja (1985)



## stripe (Nov 10, 2001)

*Anyone seen this one?*







Red Sonja (1985) Castings

 Brigitte Nielsen
 Arnold Schwarzenegger
 Sandahl Bergman 
 Paul Smith 
 Ernie Reyes Jr. 
 Ronald Lace

Plot Summary 


 Made in 1985 and starring Brigitte Nielsen in her screen debut, Red Sonja is your usual sword and sorcery quest movie. It opens with the a text scrawl, then moves directly into some very clumsy exposition, in which an angel (or something similarly white and floaty) explains to Red Sonja (just in case she might have forgotten) that her family has been slaughtered before her eyes and she has been raped by the soldiers of Queen Gedren, all for refusing to be the Queen's love slave. Seems a little extreme to me, but then, I'm not the ruler of all I survey (more's the pity). The angel then gifts Sonja with massive strength so that she can beat the pants off anyone she pleases.

Meanwhile, at an unnamed temple full of white-clad, sword-bearing priestesses, the Talisman with which the High God (!) created the world is slated to be destroyed by casting it into Eternal Darkness. Although the High Lord (a title never sufficiently explained) is supposed to be present for the destruction, he is late. The High Priestess (there are an awful lot of "high" folk in this movie) decides to go on with the ceremony without him. Just after the ceremony starts, the Bad Guys, led by Queen Gedren, her (cough) Handmaiden and Ikol (played by Ronald Lacey, a.k.a. Fishlips), attack the temple, slaughter the priestesses and steal the Talisman, a ball of green light encased in an iron cage.

One priestess escapes and goes for help, with the Bad Guys in hot pursuit (does anyone ever go in cold pursuit?). Wounded and dying, the priestess meets up with Kalidor, the High Lord, played by none other than Arnold Schwarzenegger, fresh from displaying his rippling musculature as Conan (the Destroyer). She begs him to find her sister -- (wait for it) Red Sonja. Sonja, in the meantime, has been training in how to use the sword. The ancient master of her school, who has apparently been to the Leia/Amidala School of Fashion and Hair Design, has just given her a sword and some pithy commentary on tolerating men, when Kalidor rides in looking for her. Amazingly enough, she is already packed and her horse is saddled and ready to go. Off they gallop to the distant spot where Kalidor left the dying Varna.

Varna, of course, charges Sonja with finding and destroying the Talisman and the quest begins. Sonja repeatedly spurns Kalidor's help, but he follows after her anyway -- at a discreet distance. Along the way, she picks up a young prince and his guardian. As is usually the way, she teaches the prince several valuable lessons about life, the universe and everything.

Ultimately, of course, Sonja meets with and fights Gedren in a well-choreographed sword battle in a room full of lit candles during an earthquake. Sonja triumphs, the Talisman is destroyed and everyone lives happily ever after. Well, except for the Bad Guys, of course.

The movie is based on the Red Sonja stories by Robert E. Howard. One hopes that his original stories were better than the screenplay for the movie.

For some reason, Arnold got top billing, even though his character appears for only about half an hour total. He completely disappears for the middle part of the movie, only to reappear near the end already knowing all about the quest and the names of Sonja's companions. Apparently, he read the script. His best scene is undoubtedly where he and Sonja spend some time chasing one another about the woods with swords. The longer the scene goes, the wilder their swings get, as they tire out. At last, they sink down in exhaustion on opposite sides of a tree.

Ernie Reyes, Jr., who got a lot of work in the 1980s as a martial arts prodigy, is quite good as the arrogant young Prince Tarn. His guardian, Falkon, is played by Paul Smith. That pair, along with Arnold, are the only good actors in the movie.

Queen Gedren is played by Sandahl Bergman, who appeared with Arnold in Conan the Barbarian. She wasn't particularly good in that, and her acting skills didn't improve for this movie. Although she's reasonably good at being menacing, when she is required to show any other emotion, her performance is so flat and wooden that you could build a table out of her.


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## ray gower (Feb 13, 2004)

Yes it is a naff film, full of errors, holes, plot devies and shows up Nielsen's and Arnie's wooden acting to a treat.

But you have to admit it is an entertaining film.

I can forgive a lot, if I am entertained.


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## philoSCIFI (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ray gower _
> *Yes it is a naff film, full of errors, holes, plot devies and shows up Nielsen's and Arnie's wooden acting to a treat.
> 
> But you have to admit it is an entertaining film.
> ...


Ditto. lol...

I concur. Entertaining? Yeah. 

:rolly2:


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## BAYLOR (Nov 18, 2019)

The actress that played Red Sonja's  sister would have been afar better choice for the lead  then Bridgette Neilson who,  just cannot ac and worse why was Arnold playing  a chapter other then Conan in this one ?


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## Vince W (Nov 19, 2019)

Bridgette Neilson had a suitable accent and stature and that's about it. I ignore the name Kalidor and assume Arnold is playing Conan trying to keep a low profile. It wouldn't be the first time Conan went by another name.


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## Overread (Nov 19, 2019)

I believe its because the Conan and Red Sonja licences are different entities in the legal world and whilst they began together they eventually got split up. Right now Marvel (or DC I forget which) has Conan whereas last year or so it was held by Dark Horse. Meanwhile Red Sonja is still held by Dynamite. At least that's the comic side of things, the movie rights to those characters might be even more complicated.

However it explains why he's not Conan in all but name; because they couldn't get all the licence under one heading for the film.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 22, 2019)

I wonder of the reboot of this film is ever happening?


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## Vince W (Nov 22, 2019)

There's an animated Red Sonja film.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 22, 2019)

Vince W said:


> There's an animated Red Sonja film.



Really ?  cool.


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## Overread (Nov 22, 2019)

If you mean the Red Sonja Queen of Plagues animation then its not what many would consider "proper" animation. It's an animated comic. Which basically means that they've made it by taking still images from the comic (or likenesses of them) and then animated them by moving bits. The result can be very odd because things don't move correctly; instead of animating a leg or arm moving they just take the still picture and move the leg around. It's honestly quite jarring and whilst I've seen this type of animation used in a good few computer game intro videos (often by smaller studios that can't afford massive CIG costs for a high end video); the Sonja version just feels really off. Plus its a kind of animation that works for small motions not large actions (since you're not animating the muscles or perspective shifts etc... as parts of the character move).


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## BAYLOR (Nov 23, 2019)

At one point, Rose McGowan was supposed to be a proposed reboot of Red Sonja.


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## Overread (Nov 23, 2019)

I think the problem is that its held by Dynamite. They are big enough to be well known but have nothing like the resources nor market presence of DC or Marvel. I'd also say that once they'd done their earlier run of Red Sonja stories and detailed her origins and epic final battle they've sort of not really known what to do with her I think. Part of them seems to want to keep her as the red haired female Conan adventurer; another part seems almost to want to push her forward like a DC/Marvel Superhero with world crossovers and such being cannon and etc "super villain enemy". Which I think is honestly the wrong direction to take her and I'd have far preferred if she'd remained part of the Conan licence and was remaining as an adventurer character in a fantasy setting; rather than something trying to become a super-hero type character.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 23, 2019)

Overread said:


> I think the problem is that its held by Dynamite. They are big enough to be well known but have nothing like the resources nor market presence of DC or Marvel. I'd also say that once they'd done their earlier run of Red Sonja stories and detailed her origins and epic final battle they've sort of not really known what to do with her I think. Part of them seems to want to keep her as the red haired female Conan adventurer; another part seems almost to want to push her forward like a DC/Marvel Superhero with world crossovers and such being cannon and etc "super villain enemy". Which I think is honestly the wrong direction to take her and I'd have far preferred if she'd remained part of the Conan licence and was remaining as an adventurer character in a fantasy setting; rather than something trying to become a super-hero type character.



The Red Sonja that that we all know in the Movie and in the Comice is  different from the character that  Robert E Howard originally created. She  was not in any way part of the Hyborian age. of Conan.


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## logan_run (Nov 23, 2019)

How many films did Bridget Nelson make?


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## Vince W (Nov 23, 2019)

Too many.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 23, 2019)

Vince W said:


> Too many.



She was in one of the Beverly Hills cops films with Eddie Murphy.


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## Vladd67 (Nov 23, 2019)

BAYLOR said:


> She was in one of the Beverly Hills cops films with Eddie Murphy.


Talking of which.








						Eddie Murphy to bring back Beverly Hills Cop after wrapping Coming to America 2
					

We stan.




					metro.co.uk


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## BAYLOR (Nov 23, 2019)

logan_run said:


> How many films did Bridget Nelson make?



If Red Sonja had been a silent movie , she would have been fine.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 24, 2019)

ray gower said:


> Yes it is a naff film, full of errors, holes, plot devies and shows up Nielsen's and Arnie's wooden acting to a treat.
> 
> But you have to admit it is an entertaining film.
> 
> I can forgive a lot, if I am entertained.



It does have a certain entertainment value .


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## BAYLOR (Nov 24, 2019)

I think they have featured Red Sonja  with Conan in the Comics books . I recall reading that they did one in which King Kull was in the story.


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## Vince W (Nov 24, 2019)

They had Red Sonja stories in the original Savage Sword of Conan run. They were mostly standalone if I recall correctly but Conan may have featured in one or two. I've never seen one where Kull and Conan were in the same story.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 24, 2019)

Vince W said:


> They had Red Sonja stories in the original Savage Sword of Conan run. They were mostly standalone if I recall correctly but Conan may have featured in one or two. I've never seen one where Kull and Conan were in the same story.



There is comic in which Conan and Kull do appear together, ive seen the cover with them both on it.


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## Overread (Nov 24, 2019)

Yeah the Red Sonja we see in teh film is loosely based on teh comic version which is basically a female Conan using another characters name (in fact isn't the original Sonja spelt differently?). The comic series she started in was with Conan and then she went on to have her own series of comics. Currently Dynamite has her licence whilst Marvel has Conan (they got it back last Christmas from Dark Horse). So as of late she's been her own thing save for the odd cross-over series. However the more she sticks with Dynamite the more she moves away from being an adventuring hero in an old age and the more they are moving her closer to a super-hero comic format and approach. 

I mean I can't blame them, adventuring is really at a low right now. We don't get films, books nor many comics about adventurers. WE get some DnD and Pathfinder; but by and large the big money is all in comic-heroes right now


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## BAYLOR (Nov 24, 2019)

Overread said:


> Yeah the Red Sonja we see in teh film is loosely based on teh comic version which is basically a female Conan using another characters name (in fact isn't the original Sonja spelt differently?). The comic series she started in was with Conan and then she went on to have her own series of comics. Currently Dynamite has her licence whilst Marvel has Conan (they got it back last Christmas from Dark Horse). So as of late she's been her own thing save for the odd cross-over series. However the more she sticks with Dynamite the more she moves away from being an adventuring hero in an old age and the more they are moving her closer to a super-hero comic format and approach.
> 
> I mean I can't blame them, adventuring is really at a low right now. We don't get films, books nor many comics about adventurers. WE get some DnD and Pathfinder; but by and large the big money is all in comic-heroes right now



Neither the Sonja in movie or in the comic is anything like Howards actual Red Sonja character. His chapter lived into Middle Ages not Hyborin  era.


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## Overread (Nov 25, 2019)

Yes and I think the original is called Sonya not Sonja


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## BAYLOR (Nov 25, 2019)

I vaguely remember a series Of Red Sonja Novels . I think they were write by David Smith.


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## Overread (Nov 25, 2019)

I've forgotten the title of the first, but yes there is a series of them. I've not as yet got round to reading them.


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## BAYLOR (Nov 30, 2019)

I would like to see then do another Red Sonja film . Directed and produced by Peter Jackson or John McTiernan perhaps?


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## Overread (Nov 30, 2019)

The only downside is that Sonja is of the "chainmail bikini armour" generation of fantasy. In a way right now that whole era is not so much under threat just not as "politically correct" even though she's often shown teamed up with a mound of insane workout muscle wearing an animal loincloth and carrying a sword. 

Of course a slightly more serious take on her wouldn't be bad, but you'd need a dark good actress to really carry the role and put power into the character. Whilst Hollywood has a good few "gruff and rough" men they don't seem to have as many women. Or they rarely present them as such, so they come off very soft around the edges. It's little things like how their face often looks very soft, their hands too. Sonja is often described as quite brutish in many ways. Whilst she always had an "idealistic" beauty to her, she was also not one to shy from headbutting an enemy; drinking herself into a stupor or getting scarred up in swordfights (even though she won).


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## BAYLOR (Dec 14, 2019)

Overread said:


> I've forgotten the title of the first, but yes there is a series of them. I've not as yet got round to reading them.



Have you ever read or heard  of Andrew  J Offutt ?


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## Overread (Dec 14, 2019)

Nope never heard of him nor his works, though a quick googling looks interesting - seems very much of the era in fantasy and RPG adventuring style stories.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 14, 2019)

Overread said:


> Nope never heard of him nor his works, though a quick googling looks interesting - seems very much of the era in fantasy and RPG adventuring style stories.



He was prolific .

He wrote Conan novels  and  an entire series based of Robert E. Howards character  Cormac Art which ,  I think you might like


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## Narkalui (Dec 14, 2019)

Wasn't the original Red Sonja a historical fiction character who fought the Turks at the siege of Prague?


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## Overread (Dec 14, 2019)

Basically they created a female Conan with Red Sonja, but to get the name and make it their own they took one of his other names Sonya and adjusted the spelling a little. I think its part and parcel of how Conan shifted from the short stories into becoming his own thing in the Comicbooks.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 16, 2019)

I would very much like to see them do a New Red Sonja film.

It's aggravating that nobody can get it done.


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## Overread (Dec 16, 2019)

I think if Marvel got Sonja there'd be a chance, but with the rights held by Dynamite I think they've just not got enough clout to push through a project like that. 

Of course the other issue is that adventuring fantasy isn't doing the rounds at present; its all superhero films.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 16, 2019)

Overread said:


> I think if Marvel got Sonja there'd be a chance, but with the rights held by Dynamite I think they've just not got enough clout to push through a project like that.
> 
> Of course the other issue is that adventuring fantasy isn't doing the rounds at present; its all superhero films.



I think we could all  us a good sword and sorcery adventure film about now.  Conan , Red Sonja , King Kull
Or how about a Kane the Mystic Swordsman film?  The book I would  sees that I would lot see become a film* Bloodstone.  *The choices Id want to direct and produce this film Guillermo Del Toro or Alex Proyas,


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## BAYLOR (Dec 20, 2019)

Im ratter surprise that no one has gone the television series route with Red Sonja.  It could be a fun series for television. Id watch it.


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## Al Jackson (Dec 20, 2019)

BAYLOR said:


> Have you ever read or heard  of Andrew  J Offutt ?



Ever read this?
My Dad, the Pornographer








						My Dad, the Pornographer (Published 2015)
					

What Andrew Offutt, the king of 20th-century smut novels, left his son.




					www.nytimes.com


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## Vince W (Dec 21, 2019)

I've read that.


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## BAYLOR (Dec 21, 2019)

Al Jackson said:


> Ever read this?
> My Dad, the Pornographer
> 
> 
> ...



I Never heard about any of this .


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## Al Jackson (Dec 21, 2019)

BAYLOR said:


> I Never heard about any of this .


Yeah , interesting thing, andy offutt was into science fiction fandom, you know sending letters to SF fanzines, I don't think he ever had a fanzine of this own, but I remember reading his letter back in the 1960s, a live guy, for fannish writing he never used the upper case key.


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## anno (Dec 21, 2019)

Never used upper case, like  ee cummings? Ironic really since he wrote about porn...


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## Overread (Dec 21, 2019)

The power of being able to call yourself another name! 
It's always a bit interesting how we so freely accept authors using a different name to publish under. Then again I suspect its because writing stories often begins as a very personal affair to many. That and sometimes some fans get a bit of an odd view if you write something "nasty" or "twisted" or your lead character isn't a moralistic perfect human character etc... 

Kind of sad to read that the shift to porn writing was partly the result of a lack of faith in the sci-fi and fantasy market. Imagine if he'd had the right contacts and inspiration a writer like that he could have built his own "Dungeons and Dragons" style market of books. It was interesting to read about his use of detailed descriptive archives and binders; being able to write short hand and then pull out specific descriptions and jotted down ideas and concepts and slip them into creations. Kind of the thing that would estabilsh a powerful backbone to any team writing group working on a series of novels aiming to achieve a similar style.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 15, 2020)

I could be misremembering this.  but Some  ago back , there was supposed to be a Red Sonja film with Rose McGowan as Sonja


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## Vince W (Jan 15, 2020)

That was supposed to happen but ultimately fell through. Probably for the best.


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## BAYLOR (Jan 15, 2020)

Vince W said:


> That was supposed to happen but ultimately fell through. Probably for the best.



I agree.


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## KiraAnn (Feb 14, 2020)

The 85 movie was a vanity piece for Sylvester Stallone’s girl-friend, later wife then ex-wife. Nothing more. And as I recall, Red Sonja was a creation of the 60’s with no relation to R E Howard despite many attempts at linking them.


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## Narkalui (Feb 14, 2020)

Howard invented Red Sonja as a character in a historical fiction piece about the defence of Vienna against the Turks. Or was it Prague? Can't remember now, I never read it so...


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## Vince W (Feb 14, 2020)

Howard had Red Sonya who is very different from Red Sonja.


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## BAYLOR (Jul 3, 2020)

Vince W said:


> Howard had Red Sonya who is very different from Red Sonja.



I think Karen Gillian  could be a  very good choice for the role of Red Sonja,


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## Vince W (Jul 3, 2020)

BAYLOR said:


> I think Karen Gillian  could be a  very good choice for the role of Red Sonja,


As terrible as Brigitte Nielsen was she certainly had the physical stature for Red Sonja. Gillian would play the role with more skill and depth.


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## BAYLOR (Jul 3, 2020)

Vince W said:


> As terrible as Brigitte Nielsen was she certainly had the physical stature for Red Sonja. Gillian would play the role with more skill and depth.



Bridgitte Nielson had zero acting ability.  The actress that played Red Sonja's  Sister would have been a far better choice.       In the case of Karen Gillian , she is a terrific actress and could quite easily and convincingly  play Red Sonja.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 30, 2020)

Scarlet Johansson would be a very good choice too.


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## Narkalui (Aug 30, 2020)

Jennifer Lawrence, though she probably wouldn't want the role...


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## BAYLOR (Aug 30, 2020)

Narkalui said:


> Jennifer Lawrence, though she probably wouldn't want the role...



She'd  be a very good choice.


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