# Is SCIENCE-FICTION in print dying out?



## Dave Vicks (Feb 8, 2021)

Opinions please.


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## Brian G Turner (Feb 8, 2021)

What's yours?


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## Foxbat (Feb 8, 2021)

Is ‘in print’ the right phrase? Before printing presses, there was the hand and the pen. Now it looks as if digital may replace much of what is now printed. But that medium change is just that - a change in medium and nothing more. The imagination of writers need not suffer because of this.

 Perhaps the right question is - is Science Fiction dying out? To which, I cry emphatically NO!


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## Rodders (Feb 8, 2021)

SF in print is just moving on to a different format. I don't think SF is dying out at all and stats posted on another thread indicate that the printed word is more popular than the electronic word. 

Also, Brian asked what you're opinion was. I'd be quite interested to read what you think.


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## .matthew. (Feb 8, 2021)

I suspect it's more that book stores tend to sell what is popular and in the often tiny 'sci-fi & fantasy' section, fantasy is represented a lot more than sci-fi.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 8, 2021)

Definitely not. Sci fi sells well in print. Not just as well as eg crime, romance, general fiction, but that's okay. But the readers are dedicated, and like to see new books coming out. For us, it sells better than fantasy (but I do probably have a better range of SF as I'm more confident with buying it)


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## Vladd67 (Feb 8, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Definitely not. Sci fi sells well in print. Not just as well as eg crime, romance, general fiction, but that's okay. But the readers are dedicated, and like to see new books coming out. For us, it sells better than fantasy (but I do probably have a better range of SF as I'm more confident with buying it)


and your biased.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 8, 2021)

Vladd67 said:


> and your biased.


Totally and unashamedly


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## Wayne Mack (Feb 8, 2021)

With one exception, I think the challenge facing written science fiction is creating a sense of wonder in the reader. Modern technology has become such a mystery to people that even tremendous advances seem within reach and mundane. Movies and TV shows can somewhat overcome this by throwing in some awe-inspiring visual effects, but even these only consume a fraction of the story time.

My exception case is the recent wave of dystopian futures. My postulate is that these provide a negative sense of awe, they present a somewhat horrific view of the future. Rather than advancing mankind, technology is making things worse.

Until people in general come to grips with the actual capabilities and limitations of current technology, it is difficult to wow them with projected advances.


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## Dave Vicks (Feb 8, 2021)

I think e-books are the future for SF.


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## Dave (Feb 8, 2021)

Wayne Mack said:


> My exception case is the recent wave of dystopian futures. My postulate is that these provide a negative sense of awe, they present a somewhat horrific view of the future. Rather than advancing mankind, technology is making things worse.


Would that be the recent wave that began in 1818 with the publication of _Frankenstein_; or, The Modern Prometheus where rather than advancing mankind, technology was making things worse? Or the recent wave that began with the publication of _The Time Machine_ in 1895 that warned against the inevitable progress of the man, or that he would endure forever, or that technology will always make human life better. If so, then I wouldn't be too concerned about these recent waves. I have serious doubts that this genre will endure past the Victorian age


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## Dave Vicks (Feb 8, 2021)

I remember typewriters, bookstores,video stores,ALIEN NATION,The Jetsons etc ...


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 8, 2021)

Dave Vicks said:


> I think e-books are the future for SF.


Why, may I ask? It's going against current book buying trends. What do you think will change?


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## Foxbat (Feb 8, 2021)

Remember the days when Vinyl was old hat? When CDs and then downloads were the future? And yet, vinyl has made a comeback and sales are growing.

As long as there are people looking to buy them, I think books will still be around for a long time (or at least make a comeback just like vinyl).


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## Dave (Feb 8, 2021)

Dave Vicks said:


> I think e-books are the future for SF.


I disagree, e-books are already history, and they are just pretending to be hard copy books. The "future" would look something more like a Brain-Computer Interface.



Jo Zebedee said:


> It's going against current book buying trends.


Some would argue that e-books are being read in huge numbers, they just aren't being tracked effectively by the publishing industry.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 8, 2021)

Dave said:


> I disagree, e-books are already history, and they are just pretending to be hard copy books. The "future" would look something more like a Brain-Computer Interface.
> 
> 
> Some would argue that e-books are being read in huge numbers, they just aren't being tracked effectively by the publishing industry.


No one is denying that ebooks are being read in huge numbers. But we do know that print book sales are rising. That is traceable.


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## Matteo (Feb 8, 2021)

Foxbat said:


> Remember the days when Vinyl was old hat? When CDs and then downloads were the future? And yet, vinyl has made a comeback and sales are growing.
> 
> As long as there are people looking to buy them, I think books will still be around for a long time (or at least make a comeback just like vinyl).


Heh! For me vinyl has not made a comeback...

...it never went away  .

(2000 LPs and around 20cds (for the car)).

And print for me - just don't like e-books. And to answer the question; no, I don't think so...I think physical books are still popular.  And perhaps more popular with the (ahem) older generation who are _perhaps_ the main readers of sci fi??


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 8, 2021)

Matteo said:


> And print for me - just don't like e-books. And to answer the question; no, I don't think so...I think physical books are still popular.  And perhaps more popular with the (ahem) older generation who are _perhaps_ the main readers of sci fi??



Honestly, based on what I see in the shop - nope. Readers cross all the generations, with some voracious younger readers. Sci fi isn't an old market at all - in fact, it's quite young. Now, history books about the war.... they're another matter.


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## Dave (Feb 8, 2021)

I think Covid-19 will shake things up further. When I went to Iceland I was surprised at the number of independent bookshops, haberdasheries and craft shops in Reykjavik, but quickly realised that in the very long dark nights there isn't much else to do, and alcohol is extremely expensive too. Now we are in lockdown in the UK, even younger people are doing jigsaws, knitting, sowing, crocheting, building models. They must be reading more too. They can't be all watching TV 24-hours a day, playing first-person shooter games, or getting blind drunk.


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## Vince W (Feb 8, 2021)

I vastly prefer a book to e-reading. I retain the information better and I get more enjoyment out of the story. I think we may see a different printing medium shortly, however. Much like paper currency giving way to plastic currency.


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## Laura R Hepworth (Feb 8, 2021)

I agree with @Jo Zebedee . While the scifi/fantasy section is usually a much smaller section in any library or bookstore than the other genres (and with fantasy taking up most of that section), those that read it are very dedicated readers of it. There's also a lot of scifi in the young adult books as well which have a good and growing readership, and not just among their target audience either as a lot of adults read YA books.

While I don't mind reading ebooks, I will always prefer a paperback or hardcover book. From all the book subscription clubs out there and the many 'shelfies' I've seen on IG of people showing off their book collections, I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon. Sure, it may take a dip every now and then as reading trends come and go, but I don't think it's dying.


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## Matteo (Feb 8, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Honestly, based on what I see in the shop - nope. Readers cross all the generations, with some voracious younger readers. Sci fi isn't an old market at all - in fact, it's quite young. Now, history books about the war.... they're another matter.


Good to hear!


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## hitmouse (Feb 8, 2021)

Wayne Mack said:


> With one exception, I think the challenge facing written science fiction is creating a sense of wonder in the reader. Modern technology has become such a mystery to people that even tremendous advances seem within reach and mundane. Movies and TV shows can somewhat overcome this by throwing in some awe-inspiring visual effects, but even these only consume a fraction of the story time.
> 
> My exception case is the recent wave of dystopian futures. My postulate is that these provide a negative sense of awe, they present a somewhat horrific view of the future. Rather than advancing mankind, technology is making things worse.
> 
> Until people in general come to grips with the actual capabilities and limitations of current technology, it is difficult to wow them with projected advances.


Well yeah, but what has this opinion got to do with the topic being discussed here?


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## Dave Vicks (Feb 8, 2021)

I like e-books and dead tree magazines.


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## Dave Vicks (Feb 8, 2021)

Remember CD's?


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## Parson (Feb 9, 2021)

S.F. is not dying. When I used to go to the bookstore, a trip of an hour each way for me. I had maybe 10 dozen books to choose from, and a fair percentage of them were books that I'd read years before. Now, with the brilliance of ebooks and self publishing I'm sure that the SF section is 1000's of dozens. A win for me; that's for sure.


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## Bick (Feb 9, 2021)

Parson said:


> When I used to go to the bookstore, a trip of an hour each way for me. I had maybe 10 dozen books to choose from, and a fair percentage of them were books that I'd read years before. Now, with the brilliance of ebooks and self publishing I'm sure that the SF section is 1000's of dozens. A win for me; that's for sure.


I'm less sure about this than you are. More books are readily available electronically, but are they all good? More choice doesn't mean a better product or greater enjoyment. Do we enjoy TV more now that we can watch what we want whenever we want?  Some do, I daresay, but I enjoyed TV most in the late 1980's and early 1990's when you savored the wait for your favourite programs and all talked about the current great shows the next day at school or work. I found that was "better". When I go to a bookstore, I can be sure of a minimum quality, and can browse to ensure what I get suits me. I loved the fact, when I was younger and went into my favourite small town bookstore, that the SF on offer was all quite good. Now we have a near infinite amount of material available, and the average standard has dropped considerably. Its a microcosm of what we have 'progressed' to in many walks of life - immediately available mediocrity.

The OP still hasn't answered their own Q, incidentally. I think it's doubtless becoming harder for publishers to turn a profit on their 'print' business, but it's not dead just yet. It will die out though. Books will slowly disappear.


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## Extollager (Feb 9, 2021)

I’m puzzled by the original question.  I make no attempt to keep up, but if I can go by the online presences of Locus, File 770, Tor books, etc., there’s so much sf being published up with it.

I might wonder if non-series sf is threatened, though.


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## Foxbat (Feb 9, 2021)

The printed book future may lie in the Print On Demand model. It means that publishers don't have to produce large volumes of books and hope to sell them all to make a profit. They can have digital as a core and POD as an add on. 

I, personally, have a foot in both camps. I've gone digital purely as a space saving measure but I still buy copies of books that are special to me. Right now I'm looking to replace a dog eared copy of Ondaatje's In The Skin Of A Lion. It's one of my all-time favourites and, as such, I'll be buying in print and not in digital format.


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## 彐ildHunter (Feb 9, 2021)

If Neuralink is successfully developed in the future, will reading still be a thing? We can just plug a data cable in or Brian, and directly get any information.


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## Bick (Feb 9, 2021)

彐ildHunter said:


> If Neuralink is successfully developed in the future, will reading still be a thing? We can just plug a data cable in or Brian, and directly get any information.


Heaven help us. (Or Brian, perhaps  )


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## 彐ildHunter (Feb 9, 2021)

Bick said:


> Heaven help us. (Or Brian, perhaps  )


I mean in our brian, it's a typo.


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## Wayne Mack (Feb 9, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Well yeah, but what has this opinion got to do with the topic being discussed here?


This is my explanation about why Science Fiction seems to be falling in popularity relative to Fantasy and other genres. It is much harder to come up with something wonderous to grab a reader's imagination by extrapolating science.


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## G.T. (Feb 9, 2021)

彐ildHunter said:


> If Neuralink is successfully developed in the future, will reading still be a thing? We can just plug a data cable in or Brian, and directly get any information.





彐ildHunter said:


> I mean in our brian, it's a typo.



It's still Brian. It will be great in the future when everyone has their own Brian. It would be better if he was wireless though, instead of having to plug him in.


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## Vince W (Feb 9, 2021)

Extollager said:


> I might wonder if non-series sf is threatened, though.


That may be very true. I can't remember the last time I read a new stand alone novel. I know publishers want a proven commodity but I would love to see more stand alone stories.


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## Don (Feb 9, 2021)

Dave Vicks said:


> I think e-books are the future for SF.



Oddly enough, e-books work most of the time for me. Few things beat an e-book when you search for a pertinent quote to copy and paste. They're also great for shallow research.

However, e-books fail me in a couple of ways. They encumber my comprehension of densely packed research material. In such cases the material's inevitably printed as an mental absorption aid. And paper books simply make my recreational reading far more enjoyable.

The best of all worlds is to have both: a dead tree book to read and an e-book to pull quotes from.


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## .matthew. (Feb 9, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Why, may I ask? It's going against current book buying trends. What do you think will change?


- Part of what will change is the demographics. Younger people by and large seem to be more ready to accept technology and even as they become older e-books are just far more convenient.
- I've lent an ereader to two die-hard paperback readers and within a month of use, both wanted their own. It just takes getting used to and simply trying it for a short period might not be enough to reverse what people are used to.
- You can set the typeface and font-size to whatever is comfortable for your eyes, and now even change the hue of the light.
- Reading at night is much easier with a self-illuminated ereader meaning you don't need a separate reading lamp in bed, not to mention being better for anyone else trying to sleep next to you.
- I used to read a lot on commutes and I remember having to haul a book with me being a pain - a book that inevitably got bashed around in my bag as well. Ereaders are compact and you can be assured that they will take the same space regardless of what book you're reading.
- Being able to have hundreds of books in such a small package is great for storage as well. I've seen book collections get wildly out of hand and even here I see people doing big clearances to free up space. Many societies are trending towards smaller living spaces as well, where space is at a premium.
- Paper books are still the most popular, but when you consider that ereaders are still fairly new (not even a human generation old yet) the uptake in their use speaks volumes.
- With a shift to digital learning being used even when kids are in school, children will grow accustomed to reading on devices instead of out of books making them more likely to avoid paper where possible. When they can also read on phones and tablets as well, this compounds the trend.
- In general, ebooks are cheaper and easier to buy, often one click after reading a few reviews you don't get in bookstores. They should really be cheaper considering that there is virtually no distribution costs but that's on sellers.

None of these points relates directly to sci-fi so I'll point out again that in many bookstores, sci-fi has the smallest selection out of any genre. My local Waterstones, for instance, has one shelf for sci-fi, three for fantasy, half a dozen for history, and countless for general fiction. Even the language and travel sections dwarf the singular sci-fi shelf. Even test prep seems to have more books. Having more options available in a digital format will inevitably funnel the sci-fi fans more firmly into the ebook market.

These are long trends that will take decades to fully materialise but the day is coming, for better or worse. Personally, I wouldn't go back to paper for fiction reading. Non-fiction will always be better served by textbooks though, although even those can be closely matched by large screened tablets / the note-taking large-size ereaders.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 9, 2021)

@.matthew.  - that’s interesting, thank you. However none of those reasons (all established) have stopped book sales bouncing back nor many readers choosing to return to paper books - a trend that continues. In fact many readers now take a blended approach, using e-reader for holidays and paper for those they want to keep. As to the last, the text book market is one that is going practically all e - one of the biggest publishers stopped print books last year.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 9, 2021)

For those into their stats this is pretty up to date What are the reading habits of Britons? | YouGov - it shows sf as a healthy market, that young readers have a strong preference to paper (they tell us they do so much on screen, they See Paper as a break) and That paper sales are still by far the biggest Market What are the reading habits of Britons? | YouGov

ive been in or around the bookselling world for years - after an awful run about 15 years ago, bookstores have rebounded


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## .matthew. (Feb 9, 2021)

That's interesting, but I'd also consider that ereaders aren't exactly considered 'cool' and are simultaneously an upfront expense that many less prolific readers would sneer at. Both of these factors would likely keep younger readers from getting them.

The upfront expense of getting an ereader has also helped paperbacks during these dark times, with people wanting to read but not wanting to spend quite so much on a device they are unfamiliar with.

Older people tend to be bigger readers and them being more likely to have an ereader was surprising, though with the customisation options on font size it shouldn't have been.

As to the textbooks, I agree schools are going digital (one of my previous points), I was just saying as a personal opinion that I think having a physical book for learning is better as I like to be able to flick back and forth easily.

I won't go so far as to say that print books will die completely, just that ereaders are more comfortable to read on and are not 'screens' as you might think of them. They really are like reading on paper. I predict an ever-increasing number of ebook sales in relation to paperbacks over the coming generations, but nothing quickly as so many people are too used to having paper in their hands to change their minds.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 9, 2021)

.matthew. said:


> That's interesting, but I'd also consider that ereaders aren't exactly considered 'cool' and are simultaneously an upfront expense that many less prolific readers would sneer at. Both of these factors would likely keep younger readers from getting them.
> 
> The upfront expense of getting an ereader has also helped paperbacks during these dark times, with people wanting to read but not wanting to spend quite so much on a device they are unfamiliar with.
> 
> ...



I’ve read on them a lot and actively hate them and don’t find them at all like a paper book - and that’s what many many customers tell us as their reason for returning to paper. As fo the cost - paper books are expensive. One really good e-reader could be reclaimed in under 10 books. Cost is not the factor - what seems to be the factor, based on what we’re told - is that some people like reading on them and some people really really don’t. For that reason, I think both markets have a place and will continue.


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## tinkerdan (Feb 10, 2021)

I remember in around 1979 there was a prediction that soon we'd have a paperless world.
41 years later...
The sun is also going to die---someday.
And then there will be no more need for paper books.


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## Serendipity (Feb 10, 2021)

Someone in this thread suggested that science fiction had no new ideas and this is the reason it was dying. My response is that many publishers are reluctant to publish today's true explorative SF.


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## Jo Zebedee (Feb 10, 2021)

Serendipity said:


> Someone in this thread suggested that science fiction had no new ideas and this is the reason it was dying. My response is that many publishers are reluctant to publish today's true explorative SF.


Publishers have become much more risk adverse for sure


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## Serendipity (Feb 10, 2021)

Jo Zebedee said:


> Publishers have become much more risk adverse for sure


You could always try Etaerio SF if you've got a suitable story.... ahem... tiptoeing away here...


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## Dave Vicks (Feb 15, 2021)

Anyone know the Status of INTERZONE?


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## Serendipity (Feb 15, 2021)

See TTA Press - Interzone: New Science Fiction & Fantasy - INTERZONE DOES NOT HAVE A NEW PUBLISHER...


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## Ed Lake (Mar 2, 2021)

Serendipity said:


> Someone in this thread suggested that science fiction had no new ideas and this is the reason it was dying. My response is that many publishers are reluctant to publish today's true explorative SF.



My experience with publishers and agents indicates that they are looking for relatively young authors who can crank out at least one book a year featuring some character who gets into one adventure after another.   It seems every book these days is #24 or #16 in a series.   That indicates it is the READERS who do not want new ideas.


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## Parson (Mar 2, 2021)

Ed Lake said:


> My experience with publishers and agents indicates that they are looking for relatively young authors who can crank out at least one book a year featuring some character who gets into one adventure after another.   It seems every book these days is #24 or #16 in a series.   That indicates it is the READERS who do not want new ideas.



Harsh. Somewhat true, but harsh. I'd say that readers want dependable stories, and often when I try something really new, it's also hopelessly weird. But new things can catch on. Thing "The Martian," "Murderbot," or "The Dogs of War."


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## Parson (Mar 5, 2021)

Parson said:


> *Thing *"The Martian," "Murderbot," or "The Dogs of War."



Grrr! I hate when I don't proof read!  *Think not Thing!*


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## Dave Vicks (Mar 5, 2021)

I noticed Amazon.com has a ton of Space Opera, Star Trek,& Star Wars books.


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## Robert Zwilling (Mar 5, 2021)

While getting new stories published by traditional publishers in any format might be harder than it was, the internet has created the opportunity for any one to publish their own ebook, because no money is needed besides a computer and an internet connection. This has created a much bigger pool of authors to choose from. Not all of them write science fiction but enough do. 

The market for used books has exploded thanks to the internet. It used to be hard to find already published books, you went from store to store. Books sat on shelves, authors went unread. The internet used book market has brought back to life countless numbers of books and authors, and keeps bringing more to the table. The ebooks still don't have a used market yet, though there is always the free route. The internet has destroyed local bookstores but in their place, global distribution puts far more eyes on books than a local store could. 

The supply of used books is dependent on whether the people who end up with them, want to resell, keep, or throw them away. There is now a group of sellers who are book flippers. They cringe when they see a used book selling for $4, that's the old 1 cent for the book, 3.99 for shipping trick. You make a little money on the shipping. The book flippers go in and out of the market depending on what's going on. They constantly predict the end of $4 dollar books, and long for anything that returns a good profit. With a smart phone and an optical scanner app they are rescuing books, because a good number of used books are thrown away every year. There a organizations that look for books about to be thrown away and ship them to places in the world where there is a shortage of books, and sometimes no internet. This gives used books a new lease on life, getting to people who would never normally see a good selection of books. 

Then we have the translation market which I believe is steadily growing in size and selection. This opens up both new stories and old stories to the market place. Technology can cut through a lot of the labor it used to take to look for, secure, translate and remarket science fiction, as well as other subjects, from a vast reservoir that goes back a hundred years.

Even if the percentages go down, and they do wobble a lot, serving 8 billion people means that even with a decreased percentage, there can still be more people reading or writing science fiction than there was with the higher percentage number. Formerly small niche markets can now have physically large numbers of readers and still barely show up as a blip on the horizon.


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