# Is depression worse than most chronic diseases?



## j d worthington (Sep 8, 2007)

Not the happiest formulation for the title, but let it stand:

Depression feels worse than many chronic diseases: study - Yahoo! News

Title: "Depression feels worse than many chronic diseases: study", from AFP, datelined Fri., Sept. 7, 2007.


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## woodsman (Sep 8, 2007)

I'd agree although I'm not really much of an expert on depression. If you slip into this route/hole it can seem impossible to get out at least with several of the diseases mentioned you can fight the effects. Also I know several people with diabetes and it does lttle to curtail your life, just being careful, whereas some people with depression can't even step out of their door each day. But then it affects everyone differently


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## j d worthington (Sep 8, 2007)

Woodsman: Yes, I'd agree that that's part of the problem with defining it... each person's experience with depression is somewhat different. It's easy to make sweeping statements (I've been guilty of this where this is concerned, for example), but it really is very difficult to pin down.

Now, I have had plenty of experience with depression, from the milder sort to the severe, have-to-force-myself-out-of-bed-to-go-to-the-bathroom type -- including suicidal depression, which I've experienced now and again; but even so, there are those who have had much worse. (And I swear I will kill the next person who gives me either "It's all in your head" or "Turn your problems over to the Lord and you won't have this sort of thing" response... both of which I've been on the receiving end of at various times.)


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## woodsman (Sep 8, 2007)

Well I've never really suffered but have seen some who have and so can sympathise, but it's hard for us who don't and even those who do to understand what any individual is going through, which to me is something that makes it worse. people have cancer, but they can talk to people going through the same thing and learn ways to get over it etc. With depression this is not really possible, at least I don't see it so that makes it harder to treat and therefore IMHO worse.


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## j d worthington (Sep 8, 2007)

Well, even if it _does_ happen to be very similar, it's not necessarily the _same_ (but then, neither is cancer, necessarily)... but one of the effects of depression is to make you _feel_ as if no one else can understand what you're going through... that's part of the isolation it imposes on you, not allowing you to feel the comfort of another's empathy, or at least seriously diluting it....


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## The Ace (Sep 8, 2007)

The trouble is that depression isn't physical, but if you've never had a day when you _can't _get out of bed it's difficult to judge these things objectively.  Having recently recovered, I know just how bad it can be.  I'd rather have major surgery than face that again.


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## kythe (Sep 8, 2007)

j. d. worthington said:


> Now, I have had plenty of experience with depression, from the milder sort to the severe, have-to-force-myself-out-of-bed-to-go-to-the-bathroom type -- including suicidal depression, which I've experienced now and again; but even so, there are those who have had much worse. (And I swear I will kill the next person who gives me either "It's all in your head" or "Turn your problems over to the Lord and you won't have this sort of thing" response... both of which I've been on the receiving end of at various times.)


 
JD, thank you for saying that.  I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has encountered people with those attitudes.  I've been diagnosed with dysthymia, which is basically a chronic, low-level of depression.  This tendency toward negativity and low energy will probably last my entire life (it has so far).  I have also had periods of major depression at times.  

I think one of the most difficult aspects of living with depression is the general lack of understanding about it.  As common as it is, so many people have false beliefs about the nature of depression that I find myself rather secretive about my own issues rather than invite judgement from others.

I've come across people who assume it can be easily treated by psychiatric care, or believe the opposite - that those who "pop happy pills" are seeking the easy way out of their problems.  I've also heard the "all in your head" excuse from those who think you are just whining and can decide to snap out of it, and those who believe that if you pray hard enough your depression will go away.

These attitudes do not recognize depression as a disorder or imbalance, and they hinder people from getting genuine treatment.  Physical illnesses are often easier to manage because they are tangible and can be measured.  Emotional problems involve all shade of gray, and since everyone's experience is different, treatment can be very complicated.


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## j d worthington (Sep 8, 2007)

kythe said:


> JD, thank you for saying that....


 
You're welcome. As I said earlier, I've been guilty of making sweeping generalizations before (especially when giving advice to aspiring writers who are having problems with depression, about forcing themselves to do something on that score, in part to help give themselves some sense of accomplishment to -- one hopes -- aid with the depression itself), but as I was reminded then, there are cases where such simply isn't possible. 

And I owe Teresa an apology on that one, I'd say....


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## Rosemary (Sep 8, 2007)

I'd prefer a two broken legs than Clinical Depression!  Despite more people talking about their illness (and yes, it is an illness) there are those who still think we should 'pull up our socks and get on with it'!  I wish it were that easy believe me.  Even my Mother doesn't believe there is such a thing!  I've been through it so many times since I was a little girl and only just diagnosed about 10 years ago.  Symptoms of an imminent heart attack is terrifying, a feeling that I shall die, despite lack of physical illness, can cause immense distress and anxiety.  
It does need an awful lot of willpower to do quite an ordinary thing some days, and horror of horrors - trying to read a book!  Even venturing out into this Forum, my 2nd home, can be quite traumatic, although being 'near' such wonderful people is comforting...
You may have noticed that sometimes I don't pop into the Tea Room for a chat...I am finding that incredibly difficult at the moment and not because I am deliberately ignoring you!


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## j d worthington (Sep 8, 2007)

Bless you, Rosemary... I've not been around to chat in the T.R. for some time (though I do check in now and again... when did we get such a well-behaved bunch in there????), but I'm sorry to hear you're having such problems. Best wishes to you Sword Maiden...


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## Pyan (Sep 8, 2007)

Rosemary said:


> there are those who still think we should 'pull up our socks and get on with it'


_Because it doesn't show,_ Rosie, it's very difficult for incurable optimists like me to understand at any kind of deep level exactly why you can't do this.

Intellectually, I know that it is an illness, and a pretty well-spread one at that: I know at least half a dozen people that have had it officially diagnosed, and a lot more that I'm pretty sure are depressed, but don't do anything about it for fear of the treatment or whatever. But I can't conceive of feeling like they say it's like, and just do not understand what it must be like to have to live with it....

I wouldn't dream of actually telling someone to "pull themselves together", mind you, after seeing a friend of mine that suffers from depression suddenly snap, and go for the bloke that *did *say it with a pair of scissors..........


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## HardScienceFan (Sep 8, 2007)

any illness of the mind is met with too little comprehension or compassion.
We've got a way to go yet


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## Sephiroth (Sep 9, 2007)

It's pretty difficult to compare it subjectively to other chronic diseases (since I haven't suffered from any), but I think I'm on the road to recovery now, yet depression has been a debilitating problem for me.  It undermines every positive thought you have, so that you take no comfort from them, and the negative thought processes are self-reinforcing.  For me, it's been like trying to climb out of a bell jar with butter on my fingers.


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## littlemissattitude (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm sorry you've been having such a difficult time of it, Rosemary.

My experiences with depression are tied in with anxiety and my problems with OCD, and I know that it can be hard sometimes.  And people just don't understand.

I've heard the "it's all in your head" thing about my anxiety problems.  It's especially bad when you hear it from a doctor, as I have.  Too many people think you can just decide to not be depressed or not be anxious or not have obsessive-compulsive tics, but it doesn't work that way.

I suppose my bouts of depression are really quite mild when compared to some people's, but I wouldn't wish even what I've felt, along with the horrible frustration that goes along with anxiety and OCD, which I've had at times to a much greater degree (I was once almost completely housebound for about a year due to anxiety attacks), on my worst enemy.  Fortunately, I'm much better at managing my symptoms (most of the time) now, but they will likely never completely go away.


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## Curt Chiarelli (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll second Kythe's sentiments, J.D. Well said.

Like all of you, I've been subjected to the scornful, arrogant attitudes of others over the years. One of the most galling is an assumption that depression is merely a lack of character on the part of the sufferer; that laziness or an unwillingness of the victim to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" is all that's holding back their recovery to a "normal" life. How many times was I made to feel ridiculous and be told as a child that "it was all in my head"?

Blaming the victim always seems to be the preferred spectator sport of braying asses.

Is depression the worst amongst other chronic diseases? Well, discounting severe bouts of colitis that can knock me prostate and without the ability to eat for 48 - 72 hours at a stretch, I'd give second place to anxiety attacks.

When my first anxiety attack struck I was at work and I thought I was having a coronary seizure. Cold sweats. Hyperventilation. Heart pounding like a jack hammer inside my rib cage. You know the drill. To compound things, my delightful fellow employees made it abundantly clear through their callous disregard that they could care less about my welfare. (I still remember their comments: "Yeah, like, _whatever dude." _or "You're, like, really inconveniencing me. Could you, like, feel sick _elsewhere?_" A quintessential California moment.) 

After I drove myself to a hospital and spoke with a doctor about my grinding 14 hour days/6 days a week schedule and the brutal, last-minute deadlines created by management for the pleasure of watching their employees hop like bacon on a hot gridle, I began to do some research and make the correct connections myself. 

When you comprehend what the underlying problem is, fear is then replaced with knowledge. This gives you a lot of power to manage the problem. Not only that, but speaking openly about it with other fellow sufferers has tremendous therapeutic value.


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## j d worthington (Sep 9, 2007)

Sephiroth said:


> It's pretty difficult to compare it subjectively to other chronic diseases (since I haven't suffered from any), but I think I'm on the road to recovery now, yet depression has been a debilitating problem for me. It undermines every positive thought you have, so that you take no comfort from them, and the negative thought processes are self-reinforcing. For me, it's been like trying to climb out of a bell jar with butter on my fingers.


 
That may well be the best brief description of it I've heard to date....


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## HappyHippo (Sep 9, 2007)

I think depression is worse in that it is not only harder to correctly diagnose, but it takes so many forms. My depression is not the same as another persons. My triggers are different, my treatment is different. Having said that, my dad and husband have both been diagnosed with stress-related depression in the last year, and we've all wound up on the same meds at different doses! 

I'm also finding it to be a handicap in employment. Because I've had a couple of bouts in the last two years, finding a new job is hard because my attendance hasn't been great. What shows up on my record is, ie, two weeks off, NOT the tremendous effort it took to go back that soon and get on with things. 

Whereas, again ie, a cancer sufferer in remission has a disease that is in some way tangible, and people can recognise physically what they've suffered, and getting back out into the world is recognised as an acheivement (which it is). It is the whole 'sort yourself out' mentality which makes depression more debilitating than, say, diabetes. We are not given - on the whole - the same level of care and assistance in getting ourselves better as someone with a physical illness.

I want to say more, but this is a really emotive subject for me, and I've had my mother in law round all weekend, so I'm not particularly focussed, so I'll leave it there.


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## Sephiroth (Sep 9, 2007)

*j. d.*, it's taken a good while for me to be able to see it so objectively in myself.  The funny thing is that you can _know _something like this intellectually and still be unable to _feel _it emotionally.  In my experience, actively changing your thought processes through constant vigilance of mind and conscious positive self-reinforcement is incredibly difficult.


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## HardScienceFan (Sep 9, 2007)

well said
I still keep thinking that creativity and depression are related somehow


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## Sephiroth (Sep 9, 2007)

I feel the same way.  

The basic tenet is that _thinking is bad for you_.


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## HardScienceFan (Sep 10, 2007)

no, the basic tenet is that life doesn't foster creativity .
Life is survival,basically of the fittest.
creativity is our urge to leave something physical behind us after our death.
Lewis Carroll,Dylan Thomas,Robert A Heinlein,Raymond Chandler
are remembered,I will not be(overly long)


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## Erin99 (Sep 10, 2007)

Being on both sides of the fence, I can safely say that illness leads to depression, so, in my opinion, being ill can be very tough indeed. Sometimes depression can make illness unbearable, if the illness is not unbearable enough.


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## Sephiroth (Sep 10, 2007)

> no, the basic tenet is that life doesn't foster creativity .
> Life is survival,basically of the fittest.



Ah, I was being facetious; but things have changed.  Culture has changed things, for the time being at least.  Our current dominant position in the ecosystem _is _down to our creativity.  Our cognitive abilities have given us the  means to improve the odds nature set us by using creativity, designing and inventing something new, a better way of doing things.  

Creativity can be practical as well as artistic (and the line can be very blurred).


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## j d worthington (Sep 10, 2007)

Well said, Sephiroth (on both counts): Yes, it is tremendously difficult, but so easy to slip back into old patterns of thought... dangerously so. And as far as "survival of the fittest"... I've long thought that it is precisely that imaginative creativity which provides our best chance at survival... our ability to extrapolate, to correlate, to detect patterns and check against evidence and then plan from there... interesting that Richard Dawkins has said some of the same things... and it was only recently I began to listen to/read much of Dawkins, oddly enough..... (I also rather like his argument for a practical evolutionary function for a certain level of altruism, for that matter; something else I've long felt to be the case....)


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## Sephiroth (Sep 10, 2007)

Dangerously so..._amen _to that.  

I concur with your point about altruism.  This conception we have of the _selfish gene_ is all very well, but individuals within a species do not generally survive (let alone prosper) in isolation.  It seems just like common sense, when you put it like that.  

I saw an interview with Dawkins recently, which is the closest I've come to his work as yet, but I what I heard made a lot of sense.  Personally, I've long been a believer in the idea that we currently stand on the cusp of a new evolutionary age in which consciousness is the directing influence behind an acceleration of the process.  

The problem is that it's hard for humans to think beyond human, even using our creativity.  I struggle with this all the time...


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## j d worthington (Sep 10, 2007)

There are quite a few of the programs and interviews with Dawkins on the 'net, I find. One you might enjoy looking at (if you've not seen it) is the following:

Richard Dawkins - Why Are We Here? (eng subs by transon v1)

(This is a captioned copy, by the way.) This program addresses some of the points brought up....


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## Sephiroth (Sep 10, 2007)

Very inspiring, thanks (hadn't seen it).  And totally in accordance with my views on the subject.  For a long time I've thought of culture as being an 'offshoot' of evolution (albeit one where a profound threshold came to be crossed, even if we can't pinpoint the exact moment when it happened).

I think that one of the most exciting things about the near future is the potential for us to begin making deliberate, beneficial changes to ourselves _physically_, at the fundamental genetic level.  I wonder how long this will take, given that there are profound ethical and societal consequences?  I also wonder whether, and at one point along that trajectory we cease to be human anymore?


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## High Eight (Sep 20, 2007)

j. d. worthington said:


> Not the happiest formulation for the title, but let it stand:
> 
> Depression feels worse than many chronic diseases: study - Yahoo! News
> 
> Title: "Depression feels worse than many chronic diseases: study", from AFP, datelined Fri., Sept. 7, 2007.


 

_Is depression worse than most chronic diseases?_

No. (And I have four of those on the list _including_ depression.)

And since when have angina and diabetes been "non-fatal" anyway? Both of them might kill you slowly but they'll kill you just the same. Eventually.


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## Nik (Sep 23, 2007)

*Depression: Reactive vs Endogenous, & Bipolar.*

Disclaimer: I'm no Medic.

Um, take care to distinguish between 'Reactive' and 'Endogenous' depressions, and the down-side of Bipolar...

IIRC, Reactive depression may be triggered by sudden illness (flu / salmonella / Malaria etc), chronic illness, disaster, grief, a 'last straw' etc. It may evince as PTSD etc etc. If the trigger is not stress and 'situation overload', there's usually a clear key. And, people generally heal from it. Given a little peace, time to 'chill', they usually recover. Also, in emergency, anger / adrenalin may blow through 'The Blues'...

IMHO, Endogenous deserves to be called 'arthritis of the humors'. The trigger is 'obscure', the process may be a lop-sided version of Bipolar, but people rarely heal of their own accord. Like a bad fracture, it needs intervention. Telling a victim to 'snap out of it' may prompt an implosion...
Cruellest twist is that the misery of mild Endogenous depression may induce a worse Reactive depression...

Bipolar...
IMHO, Bipolar fits too many of the classic symptoms of an auto-immune disease, with onset age, acute phases, remissions etc for coincidence.

Whichever pattern or combination, depressive illness upsets biochemistry, may spawn bizarre psychotic symptoms, Schizophrenic hallucinations, feelings of inadequacy or worse etc etc. And they can prompt Reactive depressions to mask other symptoms...

If you & yours have not been visited by 'The Black Dog' of Depression, count yourselves fortunate...


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## j d worthington (Sep 23, 2007)

Nik -- very informative post, especially for those who have had either a taste of, or know someone who has... and something to ponder for those who haven't. Agreed. Depression -- especially chronic forms -- are difficult to deal with, as they may be a combination of a lot of different things, and not always the same combination, or in the same proportions; making it very difficult to find a solution....


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## Nik (Sep 23, 2007)

*Thank You.*

Thank you.


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