# What makes a good story?



## Storyteller (May 20, 2003)

I am new to the forum and I have been browsing through the other topics.  I thought I would ask you all, not who you like to read but what...what are you looking for in a good story. What appeals to you the most...good plot, memorable characters, exotic worlds...etc.  Can you name a few stories or novels that have stuck with you and perhaps you even re-read because you can't find anything as good?  

Thanks for the input  

Storyteller


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## nemesis (May 20, 2003)

Real character.
Convincing world.
Unpredictable plot.
Original feel.


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## Brian G Turner (May 21, 2003)

Not sure about "Real character". Some people would much prefer a protagonist who served as an "ego-fantasy", whereas others would prefer a character filled with flaws.

Unless you mean "real character" simply to the extent of having realistic seeming emotional responses - but even then I'm not sure if we're back to the issue of "ego-fantasy versus realism".

Personally, I'm all for realism. I have enough ego already without a writer trying to add more. I'm happy as I am, thanks!


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## nightwalker (May 22, 2003)

On some level it has to be believeable. If it's not believable then it won't drag you in.


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## Brian G Turner (May 26, 2003)

Absolutely - but then it's a case of creating something that the reader not only _can_ believe, but actually _wants_ to believe. After all, how many pseudo-mediaeval protagonists have missing teeth, leg ulcers, a polio limp, _and_ tuberculosis? And yet...


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## X Q mano (May 30, 2003)

I want good, dynamic characters. I like how Victor Hugo does it in Les Miserables... He can start a chapter taking a deep-dive into a persons history, going back to his grand-father or whatever, and explaining all of the events leading up to "today" that has made the person who he is. Then he finishes by saying something like: "And we will get back to this later" and continues the story. When this character is re-introduced, you already feel you know him sort-of... 

I second the Unpredictable plot. 

When I first read Empyrion, I felt I couldn't be certain who were the "good-guys" and who were the "bad-guys" (sorry for using those expressions) and that was kind of cool. Feeling the uncertainty the protagonist felt, that was well done I think.


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## Roland Deschain (May 30, 2003)

I think the way a story is good is mostly based on the ability of the writer.  Everything else is still relavent-plot, characters, milieu(sp?)-but I guess good writing will always amplify a lesser plot or a bad character.


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## nemesis (Jun 7, 2003)

Different people want different things.


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## teddyrux (Jun 19, 2003)

Think about every book that you've reread for pleasure.  Why?  What do they have in common?  Real characters?  What's a real character?  Convincing world?  Who do I have to convince?  Unpredictable plot?  What's unpredictable?  The author's ability to write?  I've read bad books by great author's.
The books that I've reread for pleasure have characters that I care about, likeable characters.  The milieu has to be well defined where the action takes place so that it seems real.  The plot can be predictable but it must keep me turning the pages, but this can only happen with likeable characters.  And it does take an author with talent.

Think about what your favorite stories have in common.  I bet you come back to the characters.

My favorites:
"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"  Robert A. Heinlein
"The Lord of the Rings" and "The Hobbit" J. R. R. Tolkien
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"  Douglass Adams


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## dwndrgn (Jun 19, 2003)

I agree (sort of) with teddyrux.  I took the advice and rethought all my favorite books (actually just two - the ones I've read a million times each).  The things I like most are this:

The characters are such that I want to hang out with them, sit down and chat, weed a garden with.  They also seem to have some traits in common with me (so I can relate to their point of view) and they have traits that I don't have that I admire.

In addition to this, the story is so seamless that it isn't until after you put it down that you've realized that three chapters have gone by and your cup of tea is ice cold and it is way past your bedtime.   ;D


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## Foxbat (Jul 28, 2003)

I agree with characters being the most important factor. Ultimately, every novel is about us in some way or another (even books written about animals because the writer instills human traits).
Stories are about our struggles as much with ourselves as against some form of adversity. It doesn't matter if you love or hate a character - what matters is that you actually care in some way what happens to that character. If the reader believes in the character, everything else will fall into place. The worst thing a writer can inflict upon the reader is a two dimensional caricature for which the reader has no feelings whatsoever. Stephen Donaldson's Gap series springs to mind - those people really suffered and every page I turned, I fretted for them, hoped for them and suffered with them. Wonderful stuff!


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 28, 2003)

I think that's a vote for not simply for proper character building, but also for adversity.

I haven't read the Gap series myself, but I've heard some good things - just put up a short but general review in www.alternative-worlds.com - sounds interesting. Not sure if it sounds _too_ dark for my liking, though.


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## Foxbat (Jul 29, 2003)

Just checked out the Gap series review and I would say that I agree with the reviewer's opinions. The one thing that can't come across in such a short review is the sheer quality and talent which has been invested in each of the main characters.


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## Brian G Turner (Jul 29, 2003)

Impressed you found it! The site isn't actually supposed to be functional yet - spent all day yesterday tidying up the files that are there, and correcting a string of errors. Still a couple of bugs to remove.


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## lastdimtwilight (Oct 8, 2003)

I feel plot is most essential to a good story. I have read many sci-fi books that have turned out to be nothing more than a great, boring descriptions of people and "amazing" worlds...that do absolutely nothing.  Snore, LOL!  Lots of sci-fi writers "overwrite" their evironments, and fail to realize that people don't need to be told every single detail. Create interesting situations, and the important details will flow out naturally.


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## milamber (Oct 8, 2003)

A good mix of everything.  I'll use George RR Martin as an example.  He has great characters, great epic plot, immaculate detail, but to top it off he's a brilliant writer.  If he was weak in any of these, he wouldn't have rocketed to No 1 on my best author list.


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## littlemissattitude (Oct 10, 2003)

What makes a good story?


characters I care about
enough background to make the world seem real (and this goes for stories that take place in what we would think of as the "real" world as well as for stories in created worlds)
story developments that seem logical (no characters doing things that feel "out of character" for them)
a conflict that seems realistic rather than completely arbitrary
some unidentifiable something that just makes the story seem "right".
If all these things are there, then I can fall into the story and lose myself in it.  This is what I'm looking for when reading fiction - I like to be able to come up out of the story with a feeling of dislocation, as if I was actually there and have to readjust my consciousness to my real world when I put the book down.  Sheesh...I make reading a good story sound almost like a drug, don't I?  Well, better that kind than the kind that messes up one's physical body chemistry, I guess.  And, hey, at least books are legal.


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## dwndrgn (Oct 10, 2003)

littlemissattitude said:
			
		

> And, hey, at least books are legal.


Thank goodness!!  Otherwise I'd be locked up somewhere without a book to read, slowly going crazy...


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## littlemissattitude (Oct 11, 2003)

dwndrgn said:
			
		

> Thank goodness!! Otherwise I'd be locked up somewhere without a book to read, slowly going crazy...


Yeah, me too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Only I don't think it would be a slow trip for me, but more of a rush toward madness.  I literally have to have time to sit down and read every day, or I get kind of twitchy.


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## BlueSkelton (Jun 18, 2004)

Intricate like tolkien

Imaginative like stephen King

a bit off like phillip dick

great story like Heinlein

gritty action like Hubbard was capable of or Burt Cole (the quick)


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## rune (Jun 18, 2004)

I find strong characters, not necessarily goodie goodie mind, but strong believable characters makes a good story.

Good scenice and believable ideas behind magic in a fantasy story and the world and it's ideals but this detail (for me) shouldnt be dumped in large lumps onto the reader so that it spoils the flow of the story.

Interesting and unusual events, especially for fantasy, that stretches the imagination.  I find quite a few newer authors are making this leap and producing brilliant stories 
A fast pace in a storyline is a must for me, I can't stand slow plodding stories


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## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy (Jun 18, 2004)

A conflict that I can care about. Characters and a setting I can believe in. Language that draws me in, either for its beauty or its innovation. Unbridled imagination tied to a plot that has some directional flow. At least one fresh idea!


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## Black_Wolf (Jul 13, 2004)

I think what everyone's said so far is true, about characters and such, especially dwndrgn about the sitting down with the character, weeding a garden with them (i like it ). But one thing I think is really important is atmosphere.

I know some would consider atmosphere going along with setting, but I think it's completely different. Setting gives a broad sense, but atmosphere makes the reader feel like they are actually there. If a writer is desribing a storm, which one would make you feel like your there?

1. The clouds moved slowly across the sky. They cast darkness over Sara and Jimmy, making them a dull gray. Lightning crahsed down in the distance as thunder crashed, making the two kids jump. The rain began to pour down on them like a waterfall.

-or-​
2. The dark clouds rolled in and out of each other as they surged forward with what seemed evil intentions. The sharp wind that carried the menacing clouds blasted the surrounding trees, bending them enough to make them groan like an old man retrieving the paper. Jimmy stared into the sky as the cool wind chilled his entire body. Sara shuddered from the breeze and latched onto her brothers arm as lightning crackeled across the sky, illuminating the deepest darkest clouds like a nightlight. The two siblings began to run for the nearest cover as rain began to assault the ground as if someone had released a lever, emptying the clouds of their cargo. Sara and Jimmy sat under a small tree as the chilling rain dripped from the ends of their matted hair.​
I think that atmosphere can make or break a story. Granted, too many details about it can bog down the story, but if not enough, there's really no way to tell the difference between a swamp and a plain.​
​-And yes, I know, Sara and Jimmy probably shouldn't be under that tree during a lightning storm...​


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## Lacedaemonian (Aug 8, 2004)

Not without a condom.  STD's are`so prevalent these days.


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## Space Cowboy (Dec 3, 2004)

Hmmm.... I think the term "good" is one of those wishy-washy, grey adjectives.  There are stories that are fun to read but trashy, adn there are stories which are recognized as great literature but I find boring.


In terms of stories I enjoy, it's got to be fun and engaging.  To me, most fundamental is the plot (an intriguing idea or situation goes a long way for me), then characters, pacing and the rest.


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## Lucifer (Dec 7, 2004)

"Good" is subjective, as anyone who has read my Terry Goodkind/Robert Jordan/Anne Rice rants.

The most important aspect of any story for me is character.  If the character is fascinating and real, if I can believe in that character as a person, then I will tolerate the dullest of plots.  ("Maia" by Richard Adams comes to mind, as do huge sections of the "Kushiel" series.)

I want an author who will be true to his or her world.  World-building requires at least some research, and I hate it when an auhor fudges something that could have been resolved by asking an expert a simple question.  I want the world to be an integrated whole, not earth with magic tacked on.

Even a paint by numbers plot can be beautifully reworked if the author has excellent characters, an eye for detail, a fleshed-out world, and excellent writing ability.  It's a diffecult package to put together, but so gratifying when you find it.

My personal favorites include Dan Simmons "Hyperion" series, George R. R. Martin's "Song of Ice and Fire, anything at all by Carol Berg (no one does characters as well as she does - I recommend the "Bridge to D'Arnath" series and the series beginning with "Transformation", and a writer whose name I can't recall.  Her first book is called "Ghosts in the Snow" and it's a murder mystery, complete with forensics, taking place in a fantasy setting with some magical aspects.  This book has one of the greatest first chapters I've ever read.  It throws you headlong into the action and doesn't let up.  She even manages to make info dumps painless.

I just read Lynn Flewellyn's "Luck in the Shadows" which was enjoyable and engaging, and Mercedes Lackey's "Magicians Pawn" which was interesting despite the worthless main character.

I also loved Storm Constantine's "Wraeththu" series, despite her cop out of referring to the hermaphrodite characters as "he."

Luce.


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## ommigosh (Dec 7, 2004)

I think if the author can make the background believable and interesting, then sometimes it doesn't matter all that much if the plot is a bit thin or even if the characters are hard to like/identify with/care for.  You can just immerse yourself in the imagined world which has been conjured up and get enjoyment from that alone.

Arthur C Clarke springs to mind as someone who (usually) wrote really believable science but whose characters tended to be a bit well...dull.  But the ideas and the themes and the descriptions in his stories were often pretty powerful stuff.
(I used to like reading Thomas Hardy novels just to enjoy the quaint English country settings. Didn't care a hoot for the characters or plot).

I guess what I'm saying is if the fictional world seems convincing and is described well, then that's half the battle.

Om


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## dwndrgn (Dec 7, 2004)

dwndrgn said:
			
		

> I agree (sort of) with teddyrux. I took the advice and rethought all my favorite books (actually just two - the ones I've read a million times each). The things I like most are this:
> 
> The characters are such that I want to hang out with them, sit down and chat, weed a garden with. They also seem to have some traits in common with me (so I can relate to their point of view) and they have traits that I don't have that I admire (like strength, courage, talent and will).
> 
> addition to this, the story is so seamless that it isn't until after you put it down that you've realized that three chapters have gone by and your cup of tea is ice cold and it is way past your bedtime. ;D


Since this topic's been reopened, I wanted to add that I also like stories that include honor, honesty, doing the right thing...yada yada yada...magic, wonderful beasts like dragons, fun stuff like that, that you don't see every day


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## erickad71 (Dec 7, 2004)

> addition to this, the story is so seamless that it isn't until after you put it down that you've realized that three chapters have gone by and your cup of tea is ice cold and it is way past your bedtime.


That's my idea of a great story!


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## Quest (Dec 11, 2004)

A new idea always helps.  Or a clever twist.  Too many films try to impress people with special effects.  Audiences nowdays are used to great effects.  Many a SciFi film has failed because viewers found the story to be too ordinary or familiar.  But do something different and the fans will remember the tale forever.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jan 10, 2005)

For me, there has to be a sympathetic main character -- that, or an unusually fascinating unsympathetic character.  Occasionally, I will keep reading in hopes of seeing an unpleasant main character get what is coming to him/her, but mostly, once I lose sympathy with the protagonist there doesn't seen to be much reason to keep on reading the story.

Mind you, a sympathetic character doesn't have to be without flaws or above making mistakes -- and I hate books where the main character and the author both spend pages and pages justifying every action and explaining what a victim that character is and how nothing is ever their fault.


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## GOLLUM (Apr 7, 2005)

Personally for me the following are what attracts me to good fantasy stories/series not in any special order:

1. Well developed world building with plenty of back story.
2. Strong characterization with at least 1 principal character I can either directly relate to or whose motives I can sympathise with.
3. Only a few black and white characters BUT plenty of gray characters to make the story more believable.
4. Well developed and thought out magic systems.
5. A developed hierarchy or society that makes sense or appears feasible.
6. EPIC in terms of multiple story lines and sociopolitical agendas with a large cast of characters and lands, I’m a detail person.
7. Great writing in terms of the quality of the general prose, descriptions etc..
8. Intelligent and considered dialogue.
9. A spot of humour but not too much.
10. Lots of twists and turns where events are not signposted.
11. Killing off some main characters to add real credibility to the story.
12. An original storyline, not that everything is pretty much a reinvention of past themes. 
13. Fast paced storyline with lots of action and intrigue. I particularly enjoy one on one combat, ships in storms, tavern scenes, assassins, hidden secrets lurking in ageing scrolls, major revelations etc....


All of I can think for now..


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## pixie64 (Apr 7, 2005)

Wow! I must have posted this a while back. It's been a while since I've been to this forum. Great to READ others opinions. Everyone has their own way of writing and yes, action, suspense & intrigue are key elements in building a story. But when it comes to romance--I suppose it's up to the reader on what they find romantic & erotic. I've had alot of visitors on my site but only ten people have ordered online from me & family & friends ordered from me directly. A woman who runs the Phoenix Flare is a BIG fan of my work and if you wish to visit her site go to: http://www.thephoenixflare.bravehost.comEnjoy the site.


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## Stormflame (Apr 9, 2005)

What makes a good story to me...

Hmmm....Well, first it is the writers style.  If I open a book and am not captured by the style on the first page, I tend to lose it.  A deep plot is a must.  By deep, I mean, this person must have done their homework.  This comes along in most trilogy works.  Since reading LOTR, no other work has completely caught me up the way it did.  The Shannara works come in probably second.  
Outline to a story....Well, the typical format is cool, with the end building up to a final occurence.  One thing that kills a book for me, is where at the end, when it ends, it should end.  I don't like reading a whole chapter after the final stage is over.  Get on with the end, and leave me hanging in that "high."


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## pixie64 (Apr 10, 2005)

What catches my interest in a book is the story. If I feel the story is good and well worth reading--I'll vote it a thumbs up. Even if the book wasn't formatted right, as long as the story is good. I'm a self-published author and have written two book so far:
www.chandrasquest.net
I have recently read two books from other self-published authors and I highly recommend them:
https://www.instantpublisher.com/ip/display.asp?display=detail&num=IP13729-04&cover=IP13729-04.gif

https://www.instantpublisher.com/ip/display.asp?display=detail&num=IP12413-04&cover=IP12413-04.gif
Tales of Terror doesn't have much of a description but once you get into the book it's very interesting. Star City has humor, mystery & a good plot, that's one of the reasons I liked it. The way it was formatted was a little off but like I said I look for what's in the story. I don't really care about what the cover looks like so long as the story is good.


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## Rahl Windsong (Apr 18, 2005)

What makes a story enjoyable for me is if I can feel emotion from it. Can I feel what the characters are feeling? Can I picture where they live? Do the words make me wish I had lived there or perhaps glad I did not? If yes is the answer to those questions I consider myself fortunate to have read the story and really writing is an art form. Any art should be able to allow you to feel at least some of the emotion the creator felt in the creation process.

Rahl


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## pixie64 (Apr 18, 2005)

Dido!


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