# The Nature of God



## Brian G Turner (Feb 23, 2003)

Okay, let's open up a proper _discussion_ topic! The Nature of God...

My own position is that God is also best treated as a Concept - a mysterious intelligent aspect of the universe that cannot be rationalised nor explained - merely referred to in the abstract. Personally, I also find the anthropomorphised human perception of Divinity to be extremely limiting, and more likely to express ideals of the culture struggling to approach the Concept, rather than any real objective truth. In this way I would agree with Nietsche that "Man has created God in his own image" (paraphrase), but that the original Concept exists, simply that humans find it easier to refer to by giving a personal and cultural image.

Anyway...see if that makes an adequate start...


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## Kilroy (Feb 26, 2003)

The concept of God exists because people could not grasp how the world was created or exists so this symbol appeared to answer all questions.  The problem with the world today is that no one is reponsible to themselves.  If you do something wrong, you have only God to answer to.  If people stopped trying to measure up to God and started trying to measure up to themselves maybe things would be better.  I don't know if God exists, if he does then there is no way it is the being we think it is.  The notion that God requires the recognisation of us is bullsh*t.  If it does, it has an ego the size of the cosmos it created, not the God we know.


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## Survivor (Feb 27, 2003)

Sorry, Kilroy, but the notion that we should recognize the existence of God (if he in fact exists) is no more BS than the idea that we should know about the law of gravity.  The difference is that Gravity can't care more or less if we fall down and break our necks.

If God loves us (which is the case in the Christian tradition), then He cares that we understand Him and the laws of our own nature, since it is impossible for us to find lasting happiness other than by such knowledge.


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## Brian G Turner (Feb 27, 2003)

> The concept of God exists because people could not grasp how the world was created or exists



I guess it could even be argued that we are still there to some degree.



> The problem with the world today is that no one is reponsible to themselves.  If you do something wrong, you have only God to answer to.



That certainly is an issue with institutional religion, to different degrees.



> I don't know if God exists, if he does then there is no way it is the being we think it is.



That's one of my key points. 


As for the notion of God loving/caring for us - that's an issue I've never been able to rationalise. God=Love I can accept from my own experience - but the idea of a Creator interfering with It's own Creation because a tiny biological construct is not happy is something I've not yet been able to come to any conclusion over. If, however, humanity is evolving towards Godhead then perhaps I understand a little of the point of needing to recognise God - though again, would it be a need?

Questions, questions.


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## Survivor (Feb 27, 2003)

Well, obviously the point of most all religions is that humanity is _not_ the apotheosis of virtue and goodness.

And most of them provide for the idea of individual humans transcending the bounds of the petty, insignificant concerns of human life.  This usually takes on the idea of attaining some state of Divine grace or virtue as the moral being progresses beyond...and so on and so forth.

Anyway, the only rational alternative to nihilism is to believe that you _can_ become something more than nothing.  Yes, man is nothing _now_.  No philosophy can deny this fact once the question is raised.  And if man can never be anything more or better than he now is, then he will always be nothing.

Religion is nothing more or less than the rejection of nihilism.

The rejection of nihilism can go to the limits of human apprehension or it can be bogged down in the instinctive cowardice that is so typical of humanity, but there is no other alternative to nihilism.


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## nemesis (Mar 1, 2003)

What is wrong with nihilism? We live we die. Why do we need a reward or punishment for doing so?


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## Survivor (Mar 2, 2003)

Point taken.

Philisopically, there is no way to reject nihilism.  It is self-fulfilling.  If you are a nihilist, then nihilism is true.

And if there is no God, then nihilism is true anyway.

But certain people have discovered strong (but not logically compelling) evidence that things like logic, truth, love, happiness, and so forth really do exist, and since none of these things can exist for us if we accept nihilism, then perhaps there is an alternative to nihilism.

Logically, once you accept that nihilism is not necessarily all there is to life, you get into questions of meaning, morality, and eventually have to confront the existence of God.

But as I mentioned before, logic is not compelling.  No one is forced to accept a logical argument, no matter how clear (for a good example, see Lewis Carrol's infinitely expandable proof).

Which allows most humans to flit somewhere between religion and nihilism.  Of course, that is where all unbearable suffering occurs...the truly nihilistic and the truly religious can bear their suffering (though in entirely different ways).  So maybe it is not all _that_ good for men to be caught between the two.  On the other hand, if there were no slope, nihilism would be the default option for anyone that didn't start out morally perfect.  So religion wouldn't be a significant alternative to nihilism.


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## Michael (May 21, 2004)

Everybody's on to something, but nobody's quite right and nobody's quite wrong. That's what I think anyway.

Philosophically, I'm a panentheist.


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## Eldo (Jan 1, 2005)

God is a man with sandals, a toga and spectacles who drinks Earl Grey and English Breakfast.  He has a control centre which he uses to make things happen.  He never sleeps.  His sex is the universe and his orgasm is the planet Earth.  This sounds stupid but I don't care it's what I believe.

If we're good when we die we meet him, Jesus and the Saints before going to heaven.

(I don't feel like getting too deep so I give you my childish comment.)


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## Maryjane (Jan 1, 2005)

_Here goes nothing_

_Mater and energy both are a mass of electrons whirling around each other around a nuclei called a nutron forming the basic building block of all mater and enregy this basic building block is called an atom. These tiny bodies are governed by precise laws and these laws hold true through out the material universe, as do the galaxies stars and stars with planetary systems. Stars supernova and form massive nebula gass clouds and another star complete with a planetary system is reborn. Some stars colaps creating black holes that produce gravitational ripples that atract nearby selestial bodies and dark energy repells gravitational ripples keeping everything in balance. Then we have cosmic strings, the harmonics of the universe. These precise laws themselves apear to follow some inteligent patern. It doesn't end there as we probe ever deeper into the cosmos, we find that empty space is not as empty as had been thought to be. Parallel universes, collision of parallel universes, the big bang. Quantum levels of reality and multie dimentions an infinity of continuity, We are but a speck in the scheme of things. "Precision" Does chance have any kind of precision? No chance without direction can only produce chaos. Even science has started to prove that infinity is not made mostly of an empty voide but more like a full infiniy. Maybe all that there is, is God. Not an entity, not a being but all that is containned in eternity is the thought in Einsteins either that was made into mater and energy in time and space. Where do we fit into the scheme? One tiny piece in the infinite puzzle._


_The infinite cosmos is God_


_If man can never be anything more or better then he is now, then he will always be nothing in the grander scheme of things yes. _


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## TGirlPaula (Jan 1, 2005)

"God does not play dice with the universe."  -Einstein

 Who is God?  God is the Supreme Being Who Made All Things.  
 When I was a child I thought as a child.

 God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

 Interviewer:  Does God have a sense of humor?
 Jackie Gleason:  He made us, didn't He?
 (Gleason was a comedian best remembered for his part as Ralph Kramden in "The Honeymooners" on American television in the 1950s)

 Paraphrased:  If the Divine knows when a sparrow falls it is inconceivable that a nation can rise without His help.  --Benjamin Franklin

 A business maxim: In God we trust.  Everyone else pays cash .

 God is everywhere.  If that were not so there would be no God because He would not be infinite.

 When we are born, what do we bring into this world with us?
 When we die what can we take with us?
 All between birth and death is God's.  And before and after death.

 The late Frank Sheed was a "streetcorner theologian" who wrote the book, "Theology and Sanity."  One day Sheed was teaching in Hyde Park, talking about the Creator. One of the listeners yelled out, "I can make a better universe than that ^%$#@! God of yours."

 Sheed stopped talking to the people who gathered and addressed the man in words like these:  "I don't want to tax your abilities but making a rabbit for us would boost your credibility."

 IMHO, God is not a being that resembles a man, but how else can humanity deal with the one thing that defies measurement?  All we know is change and The Eternal never changes.  We deal in meters, kilograms, and seconds, all of which are contained within this universe, and the universe within its Creator.  God always was, always will be, and will always remain the same.

 Happy New Year to all.

 Paula


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## Tsujigiri (Mar 4, 2005)

I can't really speak about the existence of god, I think that is both a fact in waiting and at the same time a matter of faith.
The Nature of God I would have to say is that of learning. I believe that we are all a part of God working something out, I also believe that we choose the part we play before we play it, but that when we get here we forget our lines and make it up as we go along


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## AmonRa (Mar 14, 2005)

if i use the word universe in the posti'm using the term 'universe' loosely because i believe there is more to reality than just this one universe, there are probably other dimensions, times, parralels or what ever you want to call them.  i believe that there was no creator, there is an everything because it is impossible to have nothing, after all nothing is.... well..nothing. so why does the universe have laws and a nature, and why are the planets, galaxies and animals so well designed? i think that the answer to that is this: IF there was a begining (maybe time doesnt have a beggining middle or end, but just exists as it is) then there would be all of these random possibilites swirling round space at random, all of these possibilites are represented as bubbles, each bubble has a different shape and law, the square shaped, triabular shaoed bubles will pop because their shape is incefficient, no conciousness decided that they should pop. eventually all of the round bubbles would be left, because they were the most efficient. this idea goes for everything else: the most efficient animals survive, they pass on their genes and the weaker animals die out. This is known as evolution.

GOD
===
Even though i don't think there was a creator, i still think there is a god. God is an entity, wether it is organic, pure energy, a chip full of data or something else, which know's every thing there is to know in the universe, because it has either experienced it all or imagined all of the possibilites, all of the square and roun bubbles.
I believe in the evolution theory and i think that nlike others in this thread, believe that the univerese is not contained in god, but god is contained in the universe. i.e IT is a race that evolved so far that it now knows everything there is to know, it even knows what i'm going to write before i've written it.


God On Earth?
==========
God doesnt nesicarily need to be a 'He'. If god is just a giant store of knowledge, then all you really need is a computer chip which all of the information and posibilities can be stored on. maybe unknowingly humans have created god via the internet -  in this thread alone we have talked about things beyond the solar system, which no humans will see in hundreds of years. thats just one page on the net, think of how many millions of pages there are on the net, there is everything in there from the physics of the universe, to literature, to most languages, the anatomy of humans and animels, etc.etc.etc....


disclaimer 
=====
sorry if that didnt make any sense, it's a bit late and i CBA editing any mistakes, that was mostly rambling


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## fallenstar (Mar 15, 2005)

Let's see...where had I found this quote...a history book. A good remark I should say. "If God did not exist, Men will make Him exist".


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## AmonRa (Mar 15, 2005)

fallenstar said:
			
		

> Let's see...where had I found this quote...a history book. A good remark I should say. "If God did not exist, Men will make Him exist".


 
thats a good quote


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## Michael (Mar 29, 2005)

Maryjane said:
			
		

> _The infinite cosmos is God__. _


 
Although I might have avoided using the word "prove," my views are apparently similar to yours. I often use a loose definition of the word "panentheism" to describe them: God is both imminent in and transcends nature.

Of course, for me that translates to: I am a god, who is the child of Gods, who are the children of the All God. I think that if the transcended aspect of God is perfect, it is still obvious that the mutable parts are not--so God includes imperfection. Anyway, it works for me.

Yep, looking at it this way, I've only got God to answer to. Only problem is, everybody is God! Man, that's a toughie . . .


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## PERCON (Jun 1, 2005)

I don't believe in a God at all, well a being of greater power i mean. I like to think that we control our own actions and are neither given a meaning to our lives nor lack one, we each have a different meaning of life not given to us by a higher power but one which we create as we live out our lives. Death doesn't wield any answers either, for once we die we are 'turned off'. We don't know what happens in our minds after death other than they cease to work, for this reason I don't believe in a life after death, nor a higher being which has created both us and the universe. Evolution paved the way for our existance, not through the wishes of a God but through the wishes of each specie on this planet. Everyone's life is important and their actions pave the way for future generations. 

We are not given answers or created by a higher being, we make our own answers and create life ourselves.

PERCON


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## Hypes (Jun 1, 2005)

God's a jolly fellow, I think, and he gets along splendidly without me, and I without him. 

Personally I believe the pondering of such things to be inherently futile as any God entity by definition would be beyond our cognitive possibilities to grasp. So why dedicate one's life to worry and ponderous musings that go nowhere?

If anything, focus rather on the question, which is why we seem to require to put ourselves into this hierarchy of pantheons and deities. Why must we always be affixed to some static point, as to define ourselves proper? Why not, instead, let ourselves be fleeting? The fleeting always wins over the rigid, or so experience and voyeourism over Nature's workings has taught me. I believe the same to be very much applicable to life in itself.

See my signature, and substitute Tao with God.


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## PERCON (Jun 3, 2005)

This thread can get philosiphical very easily I think. I'm gonna stick to the plain and simple, although I do love the way that was written Hypes , and yes I did indeed understand it.  

Anyway, God what is it? I don't know because I don't think it exists but by including all the historical evidence God is supposed to be 'somebody' that at a point in time is visible to mortals. So it has been said for hundreds of years. 

I sense that now as many of the religious sources become riddled with flaws, which is never good, these flaws are based on our scientific understanding and nowadays we are describing and explaining things using science rather than the Bible for example. God is becoming a mental being, not one we can see but one we can sense. This God could, over time, become something of a historical memory which is forgotten and lost. Religion could be lost, with the loss of religion comes the loss of faith and to some extent the loss of hope as well. Without hope humans fear things, they start to think negatively and through this negativity they become irrational, desperate and violent and this finally results in the worst thing imaginable for a species. 

Basically what I'm trying to saw is, although I am not religious, religion is utilised by human beings to ease their minds, I have nothing against that and neither do I have anything against religion. I do however feel that religion is fading and with it the belief in a physical all-powerful higher being such as God.

*PERCON* 

Utilising the Perpetual Mental Contact with oneself "PMC" - _PERCON_


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## Alysheba (Jun 28, 2005)

I used to be a Jehovah's Witness. I still believe in God just not to the extent that I once did. Religion to me is what you make it. If you allow it to rule your life than you will become a slave to it. It's been a very long time since I stepped anywhere near a Kingdom Hall or Church. I've never been one to tell someone they were wrong for not believing in God or having a religion because for a while I didn't. That is the one thing that I am grateful to have is free will. However, some will argue that you no longer have free will if you belong to a church because you are being told what to do and what to believe. To some degree I agree with that. For years I didn't date (we were told that dating is only for those who were serious about being married which I most certainly didn't want any part of at 18), celebrate holidays or birthdays (not recognized as a JW) or go to horse races (which I absolutely love and it was considered to be a gambling influence...). Religion limited me in a lot of ways. It made me depressed because I continually felt that I had to meet certain goals or was looked down on. I leaned toward JW because I was searching and they were one of the only people to answer. At first I felt accepted and loved. But the longer I went the more it felt like High School and very cliqueish. It made me fight all the time with my best friend (who is still a JW) and feel inadiquate to her mightier than thou attitude. Plus, there was a ton of hypocracy that just was the last straw. The bottom line was, that we are all imperfect. Well, yeah, but somehow I prefer being imperfect and not having to fell inferior to those who sit next to me every Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday (they have 3 meetings a week, not to mention going door to door). It was a lot of pressure. 

In the end it's like this. I speak to God and if he truly is a forgiving and all knowing loving God, he will understand why I don't go to meetings. If I did, I probably would end up in a mental hospital.


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## polymorphikos (Jun 28, 2005)

God, if we are dealing with a Christian God, is some big omnipresent, omnipotent who is highly paternal and possibly a rapist (although whether such things apply to god is debatable). He may or may not be personal.

Gods, if we are refering to Greek gods, for example, are a host of arrogant, bickering, meddlesome superhumans who live atop a mountain, although this mountain is only a metaphor. Zeus is a rapist. Everyone hates Zeus, but he's a tough old bugger so they do as he says. Hera is a justifiably-irked hell-bitch who is fond of peacocks and once spawned a dragon.

God, in the Buddhist sense (as far as my limited understanding goes) is everything and nothing. If you're a good chap and die, you'll get to be a part of him, too. Kind of like the Source or Mainframe in the Matrix.

God, if you ask animists and such, does not exist. There are numerous spirits that it is inadvisable to rumble with, most of which live in corn and are randy. They are prone to marauding, cannibalism and housework.

God, according to my myself, is the bogeyman's worst enemy - that pleasant individual who makes the world go round and stops monsters from eating us. Whenever something happens and we are not privvy to all the various things which led to this, we say that God had a hand in it. There is no such thing as probability and random acts - it is all God. 

Whether or not God exists is debatable. There is no proof against it, although there is proof against the mythologies of most major religions, and the more modern ones can usually be debunked by a host of History proffessors, physicists and private detectives. 

It is entirely possible that god is a pink midget named Bernard who lives in your colon and turns into feces when you die, being reborn in the form of a deathshead moth.

If you are a theist and find that statement ridiculous, you are a hypocrit.


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## Calis (Jun 28, 2005)

God could be similar to Roman, Greek, Norse etc Gods, someone(s) that the people believe in and prayed to but has since been debunked  (i guess)


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## Stalker (Jun 29, 2005)

We probably may speak of the process of mutual creation. The universal concept as I Brian puts it, or the Logos caused the universe and life into being, and subsequently the man. Then it was our turn to create a God. You only remember all those pantheons humankind had created during its history! 
Now, the Bible... The evolution of the God in human minds is seen clearly from Old Testament compared to the New Testament. This is the evolution from the God the Punisher, the God who aloows the Jews to carry out genocide in the Promised Land to win the space for living (!) to the God of Jesus Christ, the God of complete murcy, of love and non-agression. 
Friedrich Niezsche said that the God had died and that was the trend of God-fighting. The man of modernistic era is the man who proclaimed himself as being on the top of the universe, and god is non needed any more. Humankind of modernism, having rejected the God, entered two world wars and all atrocities and horrors of war, all ideas of higher races show that the spiritual core had been lost.  
And then comes the man of post-modernism, who having lost (or rejected) the God, now tries desperately to join Him again...


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## PERCON (Jul 3, 2005)

The nature of God has been proven in this thread already. God is an idea, an opinion. Everyone in this thread has given a unique idea for the nature of God and that is the nature of humanity. Opinions, thoughts and ideas are all part of humanity but believe evidence is something humanity doesn't do very well. God is merely an idea created in everyone's mind.

_PERCON - Since returning from the monthly departure PERCON is not in a good mood anymore......_


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## lucifer_principle (Jul 3, 2005)

Just a random thought, but is the earth perfectly round such as the pictures in the media? If it is then I suspect a foreign force. The moon sure appears perfectly round from this point of view though. As per God, definately exists if only in our minds, as everything is an imagination in the first place, even those that have materialized like my personal computer which enables me this modern day scribbles. In fact psychologists believe there are people that see demons out of a predisposed fear and respect for them. Hence if you believe enough you might actually get your wish. Nonetheless I am sure God himself must be beleaguered by this same dilemma of existence, if he or she isn't then why should I? The mind sees better than the eye.


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## lucifer_principle (Jul 3, 2005)

Whether or not there is a God I would like to be left alone when I die, no paradise, no hell, no responsibilities, no realities, no surprises. If I can't get this wish then where is the free will? My prayer is that I have free will, others can pray for whatever else. Hate to sound like the devil, but if we don't have free will then why put people in hell? All so confusing like much of the world, which is why I would just like to die and stay dead. Like my buddy used to say " I would just like to join the stars when I die". My translation is "I would like to be left alone" or "save my own soul thank you" 


"In every age and time, the priest is always hostile to freedom" ...Thomas Jefferson


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## cleasterwood (Jul 4, 2005)

God- Now that's a tough one.  Through many years, I have avoided 'organized religion' because of alot of reasons mentioned by Alysheba, but mostly due to the hypocracy going on in them.  Also, I don't see how people who read a book that says, "Do not bow down before any graven image", can walk into a church and the first thing they do is kneel before Christ on a Cross.  Now if that isn't a graven image, I don't know what is.  God to me is an encompassing, cosmic force, who simply likes to be referred to as the "Creator".  God is a part of every living being, be it human, animal, plant, etc.  He has a female counterpart(wife or just co-creator), who he modeled women after and a bunch of little helpers (call them angels, lesser dieties, or whatever) who go sticking their fingers in lake of humans covering this earth to stir things up a bit for fun.


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## polymorphikos (Jul 5, 2005)

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> Just a random thought, but is the earth perfectly round such as the pictures in the media?


 
The earth is slightly flattened at the poles, like an orange or tangerine.


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## lucifer_principle (Jul 6, 2005)

Well I have never seen a rock anywhere that round laying around anywhere. This is a pretty huge approximation by the media don't you think?


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## polymorphikos (Jul 6, 2005)

Not really. It isn't that noticeable. Saying the world is round is like saying birds are flying dinosaurs - not inaccurate, but a slight simplification.


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## Tikal (Jul 7, 2005)

I agree with what Percon stated. The nature of God is essentially the nature of ourselves. We dictate how we perceive God to perceive us. Without releasing it we gradually change what we believe God expects of us, it changes as our cultures changes. A few hundred years ago it was considered an act of kindness to be gentle to a slave, now we see slavery as an absolute evil- we believe that every man should be free under God.
I do not beleive in an all powerful being looking over us- This concept gives the impressiopn, im my opinion, of an all knowing all powerful Santa Clause,  knowing whos been naughty and whos been nice. 
However I think that teh human race needs the concept of a God, any God. It is like a comunial conscience whereby most of us are allowed to weigh and judge what we do, and i for one would not wish this to disappear. I think it is amazing that, barring the possibility of an actual feasable and corporeal God, that humans managed to create something that keeps the masses in line and on the right moral course.


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