# Elves?



## WarlikeMenelaos (Jul 16, 2005)

Elves play a role in many fantasy novels and usually are very similar to the ones Tolkien had in his works. What I'm wondering is what's everyone favourite use of Elves in a fantasy novel? For you, what must an Elf have or how should one behave? Also a silly sounding question but what do you call a female Elf?


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## Rane Longfox (Jul 16, 2005)

A female Elf is still and Elf... what would be more interesting to know is what a collection of elves is called. A pack? A murder?

I wouldn't say I read many books with "Elves" in them. However, such is their impact on the fantasy genre, any similar race is going to be thought of as slightly elf-like. Even for writiers like Erikson, or George RR Martin. I've frequently heard Tiste Andii referred to as a sort of Elf, in which case that would be my favorite use of Elves. They're hardly typical though...


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## WarlikeMenelaos (Jul 16, 2005)

The reason why I asked about the male/female thing is because with us we're human but have man and woman but in writing about Elves I've kinda wondered what they would use to describe a woman. If I were to write "an entire city were slaughtered...men, women and children" How would I say it to describe a city of Elves? 

For some reason Elves have always interested me, I'm unsure why though. Lots of people that I've spoken too hate the Elves cause "they're always the same, tree hugging, in decline, great archers and just oh so perfect at everything bar saving the world" 

Then again even though I write fantasy (currently got a first draft complete, summer of rewrites ahead of me!) I mainly read history books because I never find the right novel for me, there's always aspects I hate.


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## Teresa Edgerton (Jul 16, 2005)

I think the convention is to refer to the males and females of most humanoid two-gendered species as men and women of their respective kinds.  I'm not just talking about a literary convention -- it's generally true in folklore, too.

And only a Nazgul (or something equally bad) would be so utterly dead to the proprieties as to address an elven princess as "She-Elf"!


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## GOLLUM (Jul 16, 2005)

HMMM.. most interesting discussion. To my knowledge no specific name is atrtributed to a group of Elves *BUT * here's how Elves and fairies are seen in Sweidsh mythology with a specific reference to male and female elves:

_*The elves are tiny beauties dressed in white, dancing in the moonlight. They live in Nordic forests or in wells or rivers. If you see rings in the grass contrasting against the surroundings you can think that the elves have had their dances there. Those rings are called fairy dances or hexen rings. 
A much later tradition coming from later fairytales is that the elves live in flowers and that every flower has its own elf. (In this case you probably could translate the Swedish word into "fairy" not "elf"). 

Faeries are not a part of the Nordic folklore but wellknown in Celtic and French fairytales. They couild be both good and evil. The most widespread fairytale where faeries are working their spells is Sleeping Beauty.

Alf is mostly seen as a male elf but in Nordic myths they could be both male and female. They were supernatural humanlike beings. There is both good and evil kinds of elves, white elves (pixies, Sw ljusalfer) and dark elves (goblins, Sw svartalfer).*_


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## The Master™ (Jul 16, 2005)

I like Feists idea of elves... That like humans, they come in different varieties...

You have the elves of Elvandar who are intellectuals, The Brotherhood of the Dark Path who are warriors, the Wild Elves covered in animal skins who are in touch more with nature, and the elves of Novindus who are like desert nomads...

Something that makes them appear magical, but just like EVERYONE ELSE...


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## polymorphikos (Jul 16, 2005)

I didn't mind the svart alfa and lios alfa in _the Weirdstone of whatsername_, or the elves in the Hobbit. Mostly, though, elves are a bit over-done to remain interesting. That's why I enjoyed _Lords and Ladies_ so much, which now that i think about it was probably my favourite version. Although in _Grunts!_ you have elves with automatic weapons...

_Faerie Tale_ also offered a nice spin on the traditional myths of elves, fairies and the like, especially the Indian prince.


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## The Master™ (Jul 16, 2005)

Think I need to read Faerie Tale again...


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## Rosemary (Jul 17, 2005)

Elves with automatic weapons? Whatever next??  (shudders)

It's like saying that the Faerie use torture chambers!!!  

It's not just Feist that has written about different types of elves, there have been quite a few authors who have done so.   

Someone one asked me if there were male Faerie and would I type up a thesis on it. Surprisingly I came upon loads of info about male Faerie.   
Maybe next time I am at the City Library I will look into the Elf situation.  Besides the Swedish mythology there must be lots of other nations that have legends and folklore dealing with Elves.


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## Stalker (Jul 18, 2005)

I found an interesting article (link below) summarising all ideas of North-Western Europeans of Elves.
He, for example, distinguishes Celtic Elves from _Daoine Sidhe_ (Dwellers of the Hills) and shows that. Don't also forget that to the fairy Sidhe such an unpleasant creature as _Bean Sidhe_ (Banshee) belongs. 
http://www.shelltown.net/~dangweth/elfsaga.html


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## Rosemary (Jul 18, 2005)

Checked out the shelltown site, thanks Stalker.  Took a quick look then added it to my favourites.  There might be something there to help in my research, although I already have much of the Irish and Celtic mythology.  I must admit I was surprised at what he said about Tolkein's work.


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## kyektulu (Jul 18, 2005)

In many of the fantasy books I have read (and there is alot) female elves are just referred to as women the same as human females. 
To me I see elves as slightly smaller than the average human, they are gentle folk who live in harmony with nature (although they can be warriors when the situation calls for it).
 The elves have a natural affinity with magic and nature and many are proficiant mages. In society they have laws and class (like nobles and peasantry) just as humans do although they are mainly law abiding citisens whom like to keep the peace and live quiet orderly lives.
xxxkyexxx


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## Rosemary (Jul 18, 2005)

That's just how I see them kyektula 
Tiste Andii being the one exception that I enjoyed reading about.


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## WarlikeMenelaos (Jul 19, 2005)

Wow, I didn't expect all these replies. Oh and thanks for the link Stalker, interesting site!

My view of Elves (or at least my version of them) will be one of an old and noble culture that are descended from the Gods and have the ability to speak to the 'spirits' of natural things (e.g trees, rivers, mountains) Their culture is centred around their deep religious nature, festivals and athletic competitions are held in honour of the mighty Gods. Large ornate temples are built and they spread their culture further outwards through military expansion. The problem is that some recent historic events have halted their expansion (big costly war) and the High-King has instead focused on trying to build an image of a civilised nation. Decedance has started to claim their glory and enemies have returned...

I just noticed that I started by describing my Elves and then went into a sort of advert for my works...all I need to do now is finish the story!

For some reason using 'women' for female Elves seems kinda messy but I guess coming up with a new word could be too complicated for the reader considering the amount of names I have for things already (cities, villages, towns, mountains, rivers, countries, different races of Elf, Gods, historical figures, lol) Don't want to be over complicated.


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## Jay (Jul 19, 2005)

The best use of elves were *Michael Swanick's* Iron Dragon's Daughter and *Matthew Stover's* Blade of Tyshalle, and both are IMHO superior examples of fantasy.


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## BAYLOR (Aug 17, 2020)

In  Poul Anderson's *The Broken Sword   *One elf removes a viking child and replaces it with a Troll child which he transforms so it looks Human( A Changeling)  just to see what the result would be.


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## Guttersnipe (Aug 21, 2020)

I like the elves in The Way of Wyrd by Brian Bates because they're described exactly as they were in Germanic paganism. Also, Wiktionary states that, in fantasy fiction, female elves are often called "elfmaids."


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## MikeAnderson (Aug 21, 2020)

The Socia'tel and the Wild Hunt from *The* *Witcher. *


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