# How many SF fans do you know in person?



## GrantG

I literally know no one who enjoys science fiction, much less anyone who  writes it. Is this normal? Are you "alone" as well, other than the  people you met online who you never meet in person?

I have _known_ such people, but I don't currently know any anymore. And it's not like I'm a hermit or anything.


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## jojajihisc

Same thing here. I know nobody who regularly reads for pleasure (outside of my extended family) let alone reads SF, let alone who writes it.


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## mosaix

Interesting question. I belong to a reader's group of about 20 people. I think, probably, 2 of them would read SF without any qualms, because they enjoy the genre.

The rest would probably object. We read *Flowers For Algernon* about a year ago, most people in the group enjoyed it but denied that it was SF.

And I think that's the problem. The media, and hence the majority of the public's, perception of SF is of space ships, blasters and aliens.

On the other hand, I joined the British Science Fiction Association about 4 years ago. At the first annual get together that I attended, in Walsall, I met the Managing Director of a customer of mine who was an avid SF fan. So maybe you have lots of friends and acquaintances who are SF fans, and you just don't know it.


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## Rodders

I know a lot of people that enjoy SF, but i don't have any friends or colleagues that i could call fans. To a certain extent, i'm quite glad as it's my thing. Whenever these guys watch something SF related [most notably Star Wars], they always think of me. Besides, i think that if i did have a friend that was into it as much as i am, i would start to get a bit more obsessed. 

I come to the Chrons and other forums to satisfy my needs and requirements for good SF converation.


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## Vertigo

I have a couple of acquaintances who I know are into SF but I rarely speak to them never mind discuss SF. I have one friend that is into Fantasy but not much SF again we sometimes discuss but not often. My Mum and brother are into SF&F but mainly fantasy and again I don't often discuss with them as our tastes are rather different. Essentially this is one of the reasons that I joined this forum. 

I would like to say that one thing that does annoy me sometimes (touched on by Mosaix) is when talking with people into "mainstream" fiction how dismissive they can be about both SF and Fantasy. They so often seem to view it as trivial. Sure there is some trivial SF&F but are they trying to tell me there is no trivial mainstream fiction? And I consider the good SF&F to be equally good. Incidentally mainstream is another term I dislike as it seems to dismiss anything else as trivial by implication but there doesn't seem to be a better term for distinction except maybe "non-SF&F" which is a bit clumsy.


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## Interference

Quite a few, it's definitely a growing medium and I suspect we can thank film and TV for that.  I don't think you could find many in a group who don't know some Sci-Fi terms, for instance, and a lot of them will know the catch phrases from Trek.

Some of the least likely people - I'm thinking of one in particular - like Trek.  In the specific case I'm thinking of it's the social implications of diversity and assimilation that gets them.

Sci-Fi is real, now.

Now, can we have a definition of "fan", please?


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## Connavar

I know no one that reads SF close friends or casual ones,coworkers.

Too often people me around me read whats most popular right now.  Urban fantasy,romance vampire,epic fantasy,crime books.

Why do you think im addicted to this forum with people that actually read more than just series of a certain genre 

Of course i know many people who enjoy SF tv,movies. Specially tv shows like BSG,Firefly,SG1,Babylon 5,Star Trek and new series like Stargate Universe but i dont call these people fans since reading the books is not in the picture.


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## Interference

That lets me out, then


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## Connavar

Interference said:


> That lets me out, then



Well people enjoy Inception and co dont know what SF is so i dont call them fans 

Different meduims,different fans.

If people who enjoyed Sf tv,movies actually read the books fantasy would be the little brother in sales,popularity.


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## Interference

I read very little, as I've mentioned to many people here, though I've delved into the staples (Asimov, Clarke, Vonnegut, Banks and a few others), however by far my most inspiration comes from what I trust is quality Sci-Fi on TV and in film - actually, even the poor quality inspires by omission.  I tend to fix it up in my mind later.  

I'm currently improving _Enterprise_ as I drift off to sleep at night, for example.


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## chrispenycate

I don't even have anyone round me who reads English by choice, let alone SFF. I have one friend in England who reads SF without me having launched him into it, and possibly two I've converted to it. I go to a monthly meet of SFF reader\writers in French, but although I have seen two of them outside the pizzeria, we do not make any effort to meet up. Nesa and Morpheus visited once, and I went to the Glasgow worldcon, but for most of my life I have been totally isolated in my reading perversion, sometimes succeeding in getting a member of the family to read something I particularly appreciated.


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## Captain Campion

First time poster and this seems a really good place to jump in.

I know a fair amount of people who enjoy SciFi, but not just because it's SciFi (i.e. they aren't going out looking for the next SciFi book, just looking for a good book).

I guess the question is, what is the definition of SciFi? I don't have the answer, myself.

One could suppose that for the purposes of this discussion the reference is for speculative fiction involving future worlds, galactic civlizations, etc., (what might be hard core? Would I be right on that?). The Dunes and Foundations of the world, I guess.

It's a shame that more people aren't drawn to the genre. People tend to enjoy stories wherein the characters are pushed to the limit, challenged emotionally/physcially/morally in situations of high drama. No genre can do this like SciFi because, by definition, there are no limits as to where the story can take you (or the characters). I guess the "science" aspect sometimes scares people off.

Just my 2 cents. Like I said, first time poster. Don't hurt me.


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## Interference

Welcome, Cap, it's quite painless here, mostly


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## Ian Whates

I'm honestly not sure how many SF fans I know personally... Certainly well in excess of 100, most likely double that... Hmm... guess I just know lots of 'unconventional' folk.


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## The Ace

Not too many.


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## GrantG

Wow, I always assumed most SF fans had tons of like-minded friends.



> We read *Flowers For Algernon* about a year ago, most people in the group enjoyed it but denied that it was SF.
> 
> And I think that's the problem. The media, and hence the majority of the  public's, perception of SF is of space ships, blasters and  aliens.



I also get annoyed with people who think that's what SF is. A lot of  it was like that, but I prefer Flowers for Algernon (which I think is  most definitely SF) to blaster fiction any day. When I read The Road and  even Stephen King's latest book, I was thinking, "Holy crap, this is  undeniably SF and normal people like it!"

But the things  Vonnegut, Stanislaw Lem, and Margaret Atwood have said about the genre  only seem to foster the public's misconception of it. (Though I think  Vonnegut and Atwood both recanted... more or less silently. I could be  wrong about that.)



> Now, can we have a definition of "fan", please?



That's  a tough one. I don't know anyone who would willingly browse the SF  section, so let's say a fan—in this case—is anyone who would seek out  such a book.



> To a certain extent, i'm quite glad as it's my thing.



I  like this answer, too. I like having an acquired taste most people  don't have. But it would be nice to be able to hand someone a manuscript  and not get the usual complaint: "It's good, but I don't know much  about science fiction." Man, that's soooo aggravating. I may be  imagining it, but when normal people say "science fiction," it seems  they involuntary snarl.


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## Allegra

I recently successfully converted a friend to a Vonnegut fan but she's not convinced that Kurt Vonnegut can be called a SF writer. Honestly I'm not sure either. 

I know very few SF/F readers but we don't often talk much about books. It seems most people prefer to discuss these things online. The public's misconception about the genre doesn't really bother me because I believe like listening to music, reading is a personal thing.


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## Interference

Allegra said:


> I recently successfully converted a friend to a Vonnegut fan but she's not convinced that Kurt Vonnegut can be called a SF writer. Honestly I'm not sure either.



I think his work is covered by both Fs and only occasionally by the S.


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## Teresa Edgerton

SF and Fantasy readers often congregate.  But if you want to meet them, you have to go to those places where they do that:  conventions, book-signings, etc.  

Once you do, you will eventually find many mysterious connections between them and the people you already know.  One of them works at the same company as your ex-roommate, another has a sister who is the best friend of your brother's girlfriend, still another has a cousin (also an SFF fan) who has lived next door to your uncle for twenty-three years.  They are people you may have almost met a thousand times — passed him in the hall at your friend's apartment building, eaten at the same favorite restaurant, worked for the same company but she was hired shortly before you left for a new job — or it may be that you _have_ met them but you didn't know it — the cashier at a store where you shop, the doctor who saw you once when your doctor was on vacation, the supervisor you asked to speak to when the person you were speaking to on the telephone was not properly handling your complaint.  

Actually, they are everywhere, but you just have to make a little effort to make contact with them.


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## Captain Campion

GrantG said:


> I like this answer, too. I like having an acquired taste most people don't have. But it would be nice to be able to hand someone a manuscript and not get the usual complaint: "It's good, but I don't know much about science fiction." Man, that's soooo aggravating. I may be imagining it, but when normal people say "science fiction," it seems they involuntary snarl.


 
It is frustrating, isn't it? 

When I hear someone say "I'm not really in to science fiction" I want to ask, "does that mean you're not into interesting characters, fascinating stories, great dramas, and plot lines that make you really think about life, existence, and what it all means?"

The realm of science fiction provides a canvass on which writers and directors can conjure infinite possiblities to ask so many question and really put characters to the test. In comparison, "Normal" literature/movies/film is incredibly constrained.


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## GrantG

I think you're right Teresa. I've been trying to remember cons to go to, but I always forget, despite keeping the websites in my bookmarks for years. The last one I tried to go to had Jack McDevitt as the guest of honor, but I forgot about it and he didn't even show up anyway.


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## clovis-man

I am a pipe smoker (tobacco, not the other stuff). Pipe smokers are a rare and dwindling breed. But I know more pipe smokers in my local area than I do SF fans. And I'm not considering movie fans. That doesn't count in my book.

The only one I can bring to mind right now is Littlemissattitude, who I met because of the Chrons. She lives in our fair city.

I have to say that my possibilities for finding kindred SF souls might be aided by goodreads.com. They have a search function that can ID members in your local area. Haven't used it yet.


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## Teresa Edgerton

So you're in the valley, I take it, clovis-man?  Which means you are not enormously far from the Bay Area, where you can hardly throw a rock without hitting an SFF fan.

Well, OK, I exaggerate, but you're not too far away to visit the occasional convention like BayCon or plan a pilgrimage to specialty bookstores like The Other Change of Hobbit in Berkeley, or ... I forget the name  ... in San Francisco.

GrantG, even if the GOH doesn't show up, a con is a good place to meet kindred spirits.


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## Connavar

Allegra said:


> I recently successfully converted a friend to a Vonnegut fan but she's not convinced that Kurt Vonnegut can be called a SF writer. Honestly I'm not sure either.
> 
> I know very few SF/F readers but we don't often talk much about books. It seems most people prefer to discuss these things online. The public's misconception about the genre doesn't really bother me because I believe like listening to music, reading is a personal thing.



That kind of friend you must settle things with show SF can be quality writing too.  Dont let them think Vonnequt is mainstream non-genre just because he is mainstream critically acclaimed too.

There are many SF authors who write non-genre books.  PKD has many non-genre books and is loved by the mainstream critics who are full of acclaim,hyperbole comparing him Borges,Orwell and i dont know what.  

Kurt Vonnegut writing Slaughterhouse 5 doesnt make him Joseph Heller in the field he belongs to.

You know Jack Vance ?  He doesnt like Science Fiction name either like many others.  Thats the same with most social SF writer.


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## Allegra

It's not easy to change the public's perception about the genre, Conn. But at least SF/F books are getting more popular. Only when a reader gets into it, he/she will realize how many literary gems among it. There are craps in every genre, I just don't understand why some people who rarely read SF/F books look down on them as if they are 'low brow' read. 

As for Kurt Vonnegut, some feel 'uncomfortable' to label his books as SF because despite the time/space travelling, aliens, spaceships in his books, his writing is, after all, all about earthlings and humanity.


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## clovis-man

Teresa Edgerton said:


> So you're in the valley, I take it, clovis-man? Which means you are not enormously far from the Bay Area, where you can hardly throw a rock without hitting an SFF fan.
> 
> Well, OK, I exaggerate, but you're not too far away to visit the occasional convention like BayCon or plan a pilgrimage to specialty bookstores like The Other Change of Hobbit in Berkeley, or ... I forget the name ... in San Francisco.


 
Yes. LMA has made similar suggestions to me.


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## Anne Lyle

Ian Whates said:


> I'm honestly not sure how many SF fans I know personally... Certainly well in excess of 100, most likely double that... Hmm... guess I just know lots of 'unconventional' folk.



Surely you mean you know a lot of "convention-al" folk? At least, that's where I first saw you in person... 

I know lots of people who watch SF on TV (I work in IT, it's unavoidable!) and a fair few read SF. Someone on my bus to work is reading "Fahrenheit 451" at the moment...


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## Connavar

Allegra said:


> It's not easy to change the public's perception about the genre, Conn. But at least SF/F books are getting more popular. Only when a reader gets into it, he/she will realize how many literary gems among it. There are craps in every genre, I just don't understand why some people who rarely read SF/F books look down on them as if they are 'low brow' read.
> 
> As for Kurt Vonnegut, some feel 'uncomfortable' to label his books as SF because despite the time/space travelling, aliens, spaceships in his books, his writing is, after all, all about earthlings and humanity.



I dont care at all about mainstream perception of genre, the literary mags of non-genre,people who dont read genres.  But when i talk to a friend who reads a classic genre author you have to explain its all good lit mundane or if its SF or other genre. There are as many crap non-genre as there are bad genre books as we all know.

Earthlings,humanity ?  That is 99% of the 100s SF i have read, the ones that isnt hard SF.


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## CyBeR

I have a very good friend (all my friends are basically good friends since I have few and I'm a selective bitch about friends) who enjoys reading but won't touch Sci-Fi or Fantasy with a ten foot pole. She always complains that it's too unrealistic for her and that she can't connect in any way with it. I've started an annoyance campaign against that since I know quite a few books she'd enjoy...like with games or music, you really have to ease people in. 

I know about 3 or 4 people interested in Sci-Fi and Fantasy. One of them is my girlfriend that started reading a lot of the stuff I have in my bookcase, and she enjoyed it before she knew me...so that's good. 
Another is a buddy who's gotten into literature since he found Terry Pratchett. I'm not entirely sure he wasn't reading before, but he often borrows from my bookcase now. 
Another is my roommate who's already read all of my sci-fi books. He was a great 'Dune' fan before, and still is. 
And the last that I really know of is someone I met on a forum whom is really collecting this stuff. She reads a lot of it. 

But these are all the people I know who have an interest in Sci-Fi or Fantasy. Saddest part is that most other people I know aren't even into reading, let alone this genre. 
I've had the preconception about Sci-Fi before that it was pretty much blasters and spaceships and stuff. The more I read, the more I find that it's far from that...and the more curious I am as to when I'll actually find a book like that hehe.


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## Interference

Possibly E.E.Doc Smith's _Lensmen_ series, Cyber - I mean if you're looking ...


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## Fried Egg

Allegra said:


> As for Kurt Vonnegut, some feel 'uncomfortable' to label his books as SF because despite the time/space travelling, aliens, spaceships in his books, his writing is, after all, all about earthlings and humanity.


I agree with what Conn said in response to this. Most SF is about humanity. Even when it features aliens, it is about humanity because by looking at how aliens might be different, we see how that difference contributes to what defines us. SF is looking at humanity from the outside in. Change something about our society or psycology and explore the implications.


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## bluespider100

SF Fans that I know of personally? No one, here in my place (possibly the country) a "science" related books are shunned upon, maybe branding it as boring and nerdish (psh stereotypes). we even don't have scifi Cons not like the western countries. I go to this forum for a bit of SF conversation and reviews.


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## Rand

That would be none.

I know some people who think they're SF fans because they like certain movies or television shows, but since the visual media presentations are usually just mindless action, I consider most of them to be closer to Die Hard in space (or with robots) than to real SF.


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## Parson

People like me who specialize in the genre? Sorry, nobody.

I know some who like "Ender's Game" or "Flowers for Algernon" but not much more than that.


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## gully_foyle

Not many and certainly no close friends. I get excited when I discover someone I know has read some SF books, particularly if it is Banks or Reynolds, but the conversation never seems to get very deep. For some strange reason there is a sense of uncomfortableness about it. I tend to be shy on the subject if people come over and quiz me on the contents of my bookcase, especially if it is in front of my wife, who has no interest in it whatsoever.


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## Xelebes

A few.  Mostly my male friends.


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## Taltos

Strange - we seem to have a lot tighter group of SFF fans here - I know about 100+ who like SFF movies and/or books (about 10-20 of them are also writers). We have monthly meetings - where we mostly don't talk about SFF that much but it's still good to know you can talk there with someone about the latest and greatest book you've just finished - and mostly they won't be really shocked about your book selection. 
So it seems I have a really good life


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## GrantG

> Saddest part is that most other people I know aren't even into reading, let alone this genre.



I hear that.


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## Connavar

That is sad and true because most of my male friends act like im different because i read for my own pleasure and not because i have to for something like school.  Most of the people i know that read are my siblings,cousins and not many friends outside family.

The plus side of having 7 siblings and 5 of them are regular readers is that we can talk about books in fantasy,other genres but no SF talk except one of my brothers who is a Richard Morgan,Takeshi Kovacs fan like me.


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## iansales

I have a great many friends who are sf fans - some of them are published sf authors - who I see at irregular intervals at sf cons and the like. For those friends I see in person more often, some read sf or fantasy but many don't. And those that don't... well, I've not had anybody tell me I'm weird because I read sf since I left school twenty-something years ago... Any stigma that might have attached to it has long since gone.


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## J-WO

I'm pretty proud of the fact I've created a lot of SF fans. PKD appears to be the gateway drug. I find someone who likes reading and offer them *A Scanner Darkly* or _*UBIK*_.  If I sense that's not their thing I try Banks or maybe even Brunner.


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## Xelebes

-edit delete-


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## J-WO

Xelebes said:


> -edit delete-



You weren't going to crack a joke based on PKD's surname where you? Cuz if you were it always gets a chuckle out of me, at least.


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## Ursa major

You mean because it suggests an entirely different sort of genre fiction: Crime? 



Setting aside a solitary visit to a BFS** FantasyCon in, I think, 2002 (the one hosted somewhere beneath Charing Cross Station), I once knew someone into SFF. (Well, they're a big fan of Blake's 7. )




** - _Not_ Barristan Selmy.


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## Anne Lyle

Ursa major said:


> BFS** FantasyCon
> 
> ** - _Not_ Barristan Selmy.



Pity. That would be a good theme for a con 

Most of my friends these days are writers, and some of them even write SF rather than fantasy


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## SC1F1

GrantG said:


> I literally know no one who enjoys science fiction, much less anyone who  writes it. Is this normal? Are you "alone" as well, other than the  people you met online who you never meet in person?
> 
> *[...]*



I'm the only one (off-line) who focusses in literature/film/music/gaming on sci-fi. Many of my acquaintances enjoy sci-fi occasionally, but no one frequently spends his/her time on it.

______



Fried Egg said:


> *[...]* Most SF is about humanity. Even when it features aliens, it is  about humanity because by looking at how aliens might be different, we  see how that difference contributes to what defines us. *[...]*



Would you call this charateristic of sci-fi a _simulation_?

_____

*catching attention*

Quite often I experience suprised people who have been watching sci-fi movies and series for a long time, nevertheless considered themselves as fans. It's always a pleasure to call someone's attention to his/her bias.


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## K. Riehl

Most of my extended family reads SF but I wouldn't call them fans. SF is just one of the many types of books they read. I'm the only one who really concentrates on SF.

At work about a quarter of my co-workers read SF to some extent.  One person at work remembers growing up with her parents having SF authors stay over and work on stories with her father(an editor). She mentioned Frank Herbert, Ursula Le Guin, Mercedes Lacky and others. She is a fan and puts on conventions and SCA events.

I attended the SteamCon convention in Seattle/Tacoma WA with 1,700 in attendance. I met about a dozen friends there. In Boston I knew at least 30 people who would be considered fans.


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## Boneman

I was quite surprised when I worked out how many SF fans I actually knew: 18.  These are people I actually lend/borrow books from, and discuss books with. Usually happens if they enter my study and see the books on my shelves, plus there are at least 10 of us, who grew up together, liking the same books/films...


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## clovis-man

Found out that my new Pastor is a huge Terry Pratchett fan. Go figure.


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## Williamlk

hmmmm, well... My brother-in-law is a huge Sci-fi fan. Several of my close friends are sci-fi reader's, sci-fi movie and sci-fi tv fan's.

I've published two Science Fiction books so I do find myself in the company of many sci-fi readers as well.

On the whole, I wouldn't say I know that many personally, but I think we seem to find each other over time. Sci-fi has a mighty strong tractor beam pulling us in!


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## Nesacat

In person in my own country there's not many at all. Phek Chin who works at Silverfish Books and my reporters Behonce and Joshua. That's the sum total. The rest either don't read at all or don't read SFF.

Outside Malaysia, I know oodles of people. There's  GOLLUM who I have met up with so do know in person. There's whole loads of people in the UK and Europe including Morpheus.

I do wish I knew more people right here though because then the bookstores would bring in more books.


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## Kyndylan

Hmm, I know a few people who like fantasy, but SF? I can't think of anyone, off the top of my head. My brother read Ender's Game, and loved it, but stopped there. I think that's the closest that anyone I know has got!


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## The DeadMan

I actually only know two people who like Sci-Fi and Fantasy. I have met many people at Sci-Fi Conventions who of course, like Sci-Fi and Fantasy, but only two people in my area.


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## Star Girl

Not too many of my friends or family are Science Fiction fans. My brother likes SF, however he doesn't read - seems to only like the films, series and radio shows. Odd friends like Star Wars or Battlestar Galactica... but more often than not they don't know much about the authors or obscure SF. 
Another thing I find is there are so many male fans of SF and I rarely find any girls who enjoy a good SF novel, series or film.


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## Parson

I'm not so sure about this. Whenever I frequent the SF section of the bookstore I'm much more likely to run into females, of course F is lumped with SF there, so maybe the truth is that females prefer Fantasy.


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## The DeadMan

Parson said:


> I'm not so sure about this. Whenever I frequent the SF section of the bookstore I'm much more likely to run into females, of course F is lumped with SF there, so maybe the truth is that females prefer Fantasy.


I  go to 3 or 4 Science Fiction Conventions a year and there are usually as many females there as  males.


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## Star Girl

I normally encounter women liking F, I've never had a conversation with a SF fan whose a girl. Unless I've convinced a friend to read a book or watch something. But it's not really the same. 
It might just be the area where I live. But people are normally surprised to learn that I am a girl and I like old and new SF.


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