# Joss Whedon - Creator of Modern Telefantasy?



## Caledfwlch (Mar 18, 2016)

I was thinking about this earlier - that Joss Whedon pretty much created the format and many of the rules used by all successful telefantasy shows since Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It is known that Russell T Davies after being given the gig to bring back Doctor Who met up with Joss, and got tips on how to build a modern fantasy series, and even now, you can see a big Buffy influence in Dr Who - I would say that after Classic Dr Who itself, Buffy was the next biggest influence!

If I am wrong, I am wrong, but Buffy seems like the first show to run with the idea that every series should have a series Arc / a Big Bad running through each series, leading into a series finale against that Big Bad, not to mention multi series arcs, which of course has been the theme of every single Nu Dr Who series. Everything from Fringe, to Supernatural seems to use the concept, whilst shows that did not use the format have often tended to end prematurely, though of course the dreaded axe can also fall on shows that do.

By the late 90's when Buffy was well underway, even books such as the BBC's inhouse range of Dr Who's "Eighth Doctor" adventures used the Arc format - in the case of those novels, a combination of the baddie Sabbath, Faction Paradox and a coming "Time War" between Gallifrey and an unknown enemy - probably where RTD got the idea from for Nu Who, but instead of an enemy who's very nature and identity changes because its a time war, he made it the Daleks.


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## HareBrain (Mar 18, 2016)

Interesting idea, but wasn't something similar done in Babylon 5, which predated Buffy by some years (1994-98 vs 1997-2003)? I can't recall it well enough to be sure.


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## Caledfwlch (Mar 18, 2016)

HareBrain said:


> Interesting idea, but wasn't something similar done in Babylon 5, which predated Buffy by some years (1994-98 vs 1997-2003)? I can't recall it well enough to be sure.



I did think of B5, but I have the memory that it was a vague multi series arc, rather than each series having its own specific arc, leading to a big finale with that series big bad.


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## Brian G Turner (Mar 18, 2016)

_Babylon 5_ began with the intention of a 5 year series arc. When they were told that season 5 would be cancelled, they tried to rush it into season 4 - then got given a fifth season anyway.

However, B5 did break the mould - previously, shows such as _Star Trek_ were written as standalone episodes, so that networks could show them in any order, without losing viewers.


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## WaylanderToo (Mar 18, 2016)

Caledfwlch said:


> If I am wrong, I am wrong, but Buffy seems like the first show to run with the idea that every series should have a series Arc / a Big Bad running through each series, leading into a series finale against that Big Bad, not to mention multi series arcs,



so in other words it follows computer gaming convention?


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## Randy M. (Mar 18, 2016)

WaylanderToo said:


> so in other words it follows computer gaming convention?



I thought of _Buffy _as more like a series of novels, each about 22 chapters long (except for the first season), in which most chapters tell a distinct story that add to or reflect on the overarching season long plot, and a few wrap up that plot. I think it was a variation derived in part from the pitfalls of _Twin Peaks_, which started strong but devolved rapidly, and _The X-Files_ which got mired in a series long plot -- resolve it in a set number of chapters and it wouldn't become an anchor -- and further worked well with the underlying coming-of-age structure: From a certain perspective, each season was a coming-of-age story.


Randy M.


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## Caledfwlch (Mar 19, 2016)

Which episode had some sort of alternate Buffy who had lost much of her "humanity" ie was a standard issue Slayer, no life or thought beyond warring against evil with a big scar on her face? or am I imagining the scar? I thought it might be The Wish, but she doesnt seem to have a scar in it.

Edit: It is The Wish, the Scar is on her mouth, I thought it was down a cheek.


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## Rodders (Mar 22, 2016)

I'd suggest Twin Peaks was the first show to have a series story arc.


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## HareBrain (Mar 22, 2016)

Did Twin Peaks have series arcs any more than earlier dramas like The Onedin Line?

In any case, those examples were both serials, where one episode carries on directly from the one before. Where Buffy might have been first is to have largely stand-alone episodes which are also part of a longer arc: a hybrid of the Star-Trek-style "any order" episode and the serial form.


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## Caledfwlch (Mar 22, 2016)

HareBrain said:


> Did Twin Peaks have series arcs any more than earlier dramas like The Onedin Line?
> 
> In any case, those examples were both serials, where one episode carries on directly from the one before. Where Buffy might have been first is to have largely stand-alone episodes which are also part of a longer arc: a hybrid of the Star-Trek-style "any order" episode and the serial form.



I would say your correct, though obviously jumping straight to a season finale would leave you confused without the foreshadowing of the rest of the season. Buffy's series spanning Arc is fairly subtle, but I would say it is the Hellmouth its opening in the grand finale was what every season was leading up to.

What show introduced the mid season mini finale? From what I can remember, I don't recall Buffy having such a thing, though being British, when I was watching Buffy on the BBC, we got each complete season after both half's had been aired in the US.

I can't decide whether I like the US custom of 22-24 episodes a season for shows versus the British norm of 6-13 - its nice having so much of a good show, but at the same time, its a bit of an overload, like I am currently attempting to get through and keep up with several shows which equals around 140 episodes!!!!! I need a time machine!


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## Randy M. (Mar 22, 2016)

Really, the first shows with series arcs were soap operas and those have roots in radio drama. In the U.S. prime time soap operas became popular in the late '70s and early '80s (as I recall) with _Dallas_ and _Dynasty_, among others, and _Buffy..._ shares a good deal with soap operas. Think the high school angst and the romantic tangles, but that soap opera element always mitigated by Whedon's humor. (This was why I felt indifferent to _Smallville_; without the humor it was superhero soap opera.)


Randy M.


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## pambaddeley (Mar 22, 2016)

Arcs in UK fantasy/SF shows go back quite a way ... for example, in Tom Baker's era there was the 'Key to Time' arc which made up the whole of series 17 -  Doctor Who: The Key to Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Blake's 7 which started in 1978 had a number of arcs, starting with the one where the crew try to find the super computer that the Federation use to control weather and everything else on umpteen worlds.


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