# Church of England vs Sony



## McMurphy (Jun 25, 2007)

The Church of England and Sony Entertainment are at legal odds due to the game Resistance:  Fall of Man. According to abc4.com, "The English Church claims this game uses the Manchester Cathedral as a backdrop for a violent battle" (article here).

Spokespeople for the interests of the Church find such a choice in backdrop for the era-driven alien/zombie shooter game extremely disrespectful, and the Church of England is threatening legal action.

Do you believe that The Church of England has any legal grounds for a lawsuit?

Honestly, I don't know exactly what legal vantage point they possibly could be speaking from.


----------



## Lenny (Jun 25, 2007)

Bit old, but still, not been posted yet.

In one report, it was stated that the CoE complained that in the Cathedral was a violent gun battle in which *hundreds* of *people* died.

Notice the "hundreds" and "people".

I don't know how many people here have played the game, but it's pretty obvious to even the dimmest that firstly, there are nowhere near "hundreds" of any species being killed within the Cathedral. Nor are those being shot, by the player, "people" - rather they are an alien species bent on taking over the world.

Personally, I don't believe the Church has grounds for a lawsuit. They say that Sony did not ask permission to use the building in the game, and Sony say they sought all permissions beforehand. If they had needed to seek permission to use the building, then methinks they would have done.

An interesting thing to note - as with all artsy things (books, music, paintings), the copyright on a building lasts until fifty years after the architects death. I don't suppose anyone knows how long the Cathedral has been standing? But I'm pretty sure that it's been there a little bit longer than fifty years after the architect died.

Anyway, Sony apologised to the Church a few days after they complained (that was about a month ago, I think), and the Church came back with a few demands:

- The game be altered and the Cathedral be taken out or changed
- The game be taken off shelves
- A LARGE DONATION FROM SONY

And why not demand a large donation from Sony from the profits of this obviously Devilish game? Makes perfect sense to me...

One interesting thing to note - in the game (with non-destrutible environments, actually, so no part of the Cathedral is actually changed by gunfire), Manchester is shown on a map, to be located a few miles from the coast, somewhere in Cumbria.

But that's just my two pence - I don't believe the Church has any grounds to demand that the game is taken off shelves, or to demand a very large donation from Sony. A sentiment echoed by those 360 owners who try to damage Sony and PS3 in any way possible.

---

EDIT: Oh, and one last thing:

It's a _*SCI-FI GAME*_, set in an _*ALTERNATE REALITY*_, in _*1951*_, in which a bunch of _*ALIENS*_ are trying to wipe out the human race. The parallels with modern-day Britain and Manchester are uncanny!


----------



## Rahl Windsong (Aug 1, 2007)

Yes but if it bothers the Church then Sony needs to do the right thing and either change the game or pull it from retail sales. It is never a good idead for any company to be seen as "anti-religion" and if they have done what this article says then they are bashing one of that religions most sacred buildings. Not a good thing for a large corparation to do.

I used to run an audio/video electronics store in Canada and one of the worst experiences I ever had with a salesman form an electronics firm was the day SOny came and tried to get me to sell their stuff. In order to become a Sony dealer I had to purchase, that day, 10K worth of their walkmans. 

I looked at the guy and I said, "So this is how you get me started? Bankrupt me on buying the one item I was going to avoid in your line? Then I told him where he could find the door and not to let it hit his bum on the way out.

Sony: they like to hire fools for salesmen, thats what I learned that day.


----------



## Naryaló S dú (Aug 1, 2007)

I think they should be proud that aliens and zombie fights are going on near their cathedral, it symbolizes the believability of their own religion.


----------



## Joel007 (Aug 1, 2007)

I think it just means that the game developers like to have some pretty backgrounds in their games. What do they expect, some kind of re-enactment outside their front door?


----------



## The Ace (Aug 1, 2007)

Realistic backgrounds are one thing, but Sony could've used a little tact.


----------



## Lucien21 (Aug 1, 2007)

Bear in mind the fact that SONY only published the game and therefore didn't actually place the cathedral into the game.

Insomniac Games are remaining very quiet in this row.

I think it was just the church trying to up it's profile and wangle a donation at the same time. They know that they havn't a leg to stand on.

Public buildings are fair game and not copyrightable as far as I know.

UK's 1988 Copyright Designs and Patents act that "explicitly states that it is not copyright infringement to represent certain artistic works that are on public display". This includes sculptures and buildings which are "permanently situated in a public place or in premises open to the public".


----------



## Joel007 (Aug 1, 2007)

Well said Lucien  That about covers it all.


----------



## Finnien (Aug 27, 2007)

Also, let's imagine the possible implications of media companies being sued any time they use a historic landmark in something.  Governments sue any company making terrorist movies that have embassies, government buildings, or monuments in them.  The Louvre sues Da Vinci Code for having representations of theft from their museum.  We already heard rumblings about Las Vegas suing a video game company for having a Rainbow Six or some other espionage game take place in their town, even if it was in fictitious locations.

People want free handouts.  Let things like this slide, and you leave anyone who uses any location anywhere for a film, book, or movie open to litigation of any related party just happens to feel like trying for free money.

I can already see the lawsuit demanding that Pirates of the Carribean rename itself and remove any reference to the islands because it hurts tourism with implications of theft and lawlesness.


----------



## Lenny (Aug 27, 2007)

The game set in las Vegas was indeed Rainbow Six - *Rainbow Six: Las Vegas*, developed and produced by Ubisoft.

The majority of the city was actually produced from maps and the like, but some casinos and streets were changed because either:

a) The Casino would not allow Ubisoft to recreate it in the game
b) The game makers changed it to fit in better with storyline and/or action.

Just wait until GTA IV comes out and the lawsuits start to come out in force because the city, Liberty City, is very closely modelled on modern-day New York. Heck, already the Mayor of NY has distanced the city from the game, and that was a week or two after it was announced, some months ago.


----------



## Lenny (Oct 6, 2007)

And still they moan...

http://kotaku.com/gaming/is-it-over-yet%3F/manchester-cathedral-still-beating-the-resistance-horse-307879.php


----------



## Lenny (Oct 24, 2007)

And one last post... what an anti-climax...

News: Manchester Cathedral forgives Sony - ComputerAndVideoGames.com



> Church leaders at Manchester Cathedral have "forgiven" Sony for not asking permission to use images of the building in Resistance: Fall of Man, reports the BBC.


----------



## Cayal (Oct 24, 2007)

"forgiven" ey?

I am sure Sony didn't give two stuffs about it.


----------

