# History quiz!



## Blue Mythril

I thought that seeing as there is a fair bit of history around here, it might be interesting to get some questions cranking 

 Okay basic rules:
  1.You can only ask one question at a time.
  2.you can ask two types of questions. 
 The first is fairly standard: a question which has a specific answer: e.g *In what year was the Battle of Hastings? *Whoever gives the correct answer gets to post the next question.
 The alternative is to ask something which is either arguable, or a matter of personal/ historical opinion: e.g. _Did the regime of Augustus suppress literary opposition? _or _Who was the greastest misogynist in history? _With these questions the next poster (person A) can post their answer/ opinion and also pose a question. *However *the poster after them (person B) can choose to either answer the question posed by person A or to dispute the answer/ opinion of person A. In this case, they each have one post to make a maximum of five points supporting their arguments and the person who posted the original question must decide which argument is the most persuasive. The winner can then post the next question.

 The second one's a bit more complicated, but I thought it might make things interesting. There's nothing like a good bit of historical debate. If its too difficult we can always axe it.

 Okay. First question.
*In what year was Julius Caesar assasinated?*
  nice and easy


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## Drachir

OK Blue, I am happy to participate in your game.  Caesar died in 44 BC.  Now I assume I get to ask a question.  

What English King was known as the _*Hammer of the Scots*_?


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## Blue Mythril

oooh Goodie! *claps hands like Obelix*
I think that was one of the Edwards, but I'm not sure. I'll take a punt and say Edward I?
I'll wait for confirmation though, 

Edit: I'm thinking Edward Longshanks here if I have the wrong number Edward 
Double Edit: Google says I was right, so I'll post a question 
*
Which defeat (as in the place and date) saw the end of Sparta?
*


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## GOLLUM

UM.. I'd nominate *The Battle at Leuctra in 371 B.*C against Thebes as the pivotal battle that saw the beginning of the end for Sparta with power being transferred from Sparta to Thebes.

This is a bit of a loaded qustion because it depends a bit upon your definition of what The End or Decline of a city, state or civilization really means I guess LOL! 

*SHORT HISTORY OF SPARTA POST 371 B.C.*
***********************************
After that defeat the city Of Sparta itself suffered several sieges and never really regained its former power.

In approx 406 AD, Alaric who was the leader of the Visigoth troops under Roman emperor Theodosius I destroyed the city of Sparta and the state was later settled by Slavonic peoples.

The Franks on their arrival in the Morea in 1294 founded a fortified city named Lacedaemonia... starting to sound familiar folks???....  that occupied parts of the site of ancient Sparta although this didn't last for that long with ultimately the nearby city of Mistra being built and ruled primarily by heirs of the Byzantine Empire before the Turks regained, then lost then regained Mistra again in the 1700s.

In 1834 after the War Of Independence that resulted in Greek liberation the modern city of Sparta was built upon part of the ancient site and remains to this day as a precinct of Lacedaemon.

As there's a potential problem with time differences living in OZ (although Bule Mythril lives in the Blue Mountanis) I'll assume my answer is OK (have checked it against more than one source) and suggest the following. If I'm incorrect then you can disregard this question:

*QUESTION*
********
What *battle in terms of time and place * saw Napoleon Bonaparte promoted to Brigadier General and the beginning of his rapid rise to the top.

I'll give a clue by saying that he was a Captain Of Artillery at the time of this event.


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## Winters_Sorrow

*The Battle of Toulon in 1793* 

(I thought the battle of Leuctra as well for the Spartan decline, when the Theban Sacred Band defeated them but I wasn't sure either  )

when & what historical event immediately preceeded Alexander the Great's rise to the throne of Macedonia? (clue: happy families?)


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## GOLLUM

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> *The Battle of Toulon in 1793*
> 
> (I thought the battle of Leuctra as well for the Spartan decline, when the Theban Sacred Band defeated them but I wasn't sure either  )


HMM.. not bad for a guy who's had his frontal lobe rewired....  

*CLUE* Check out my response to your response to new member Rosemary... 

I'll let someone else have a go at your question, wouldn't want to hog the limelight now would we....


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## Leto

Too late. WS was quicker than me to remember the fight.


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## Blue Mythril

Winters Sorrow are you referring to the *assasination of Philip II, Alexander's father*? It seems like the logical answer to me 

And Gollum, you more than answered my question  I was going for the nice general Leuktra end, you're right I should have said beginning of the end, but Sparta really never regained political importance as a city after then (though it became a politically significant icon to many people) so you could argue it was done for. 

Hmmm... Next question 

_The reign of Augustus has been marked (by some) as the most significant turning point for Rome and the republic. Do you agree?_


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## Leto

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> _*The reign of* Augustus has been marked (by some) as the most significant turning point for Rome and the *republic.* Do you agree?_


Seems like you answered you own question. Augustus is Rome first Emperor.

Who invented the electry battery, when and where ?


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Seems like you answered you own question. Augustus is Rome first Emperor. Who invented the electry battery, when and where ?


HMMM.. let me see, seeing that I majored in chemsitry in my Univeristy days I should know this..... 

UM how about Count Alessandro Volta. He was an Italian physicist who by 1799 had devloped the so-called voltaic pile, a forerunner of the electric battery, which produced a steady stream of electricity and is therefore generally regarded as the inventor of the Electric battery. He achieved this whilst professor of physics at the University of Pavia, Italy so I'd suggest that was the most likely place it took place. Of course the electrical unit the 'volt' is named after him.

Hope I'm right Leto.... 

Actually just in case you were thinking Frenchman..... 

The next evolution of electrical energy storage was the lead acid storage battery created in 1859 by the French physicist Gaston Plante.

Then came the dry cell battery, based on the work done b/w 1867-1877 by Georges Leclanche in France.

Finally the alkaline storage battery which is in common use today was developed in 1914 by Thomas Alva Edison.


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## Leto

Who ? Alessandro Volta, right.
When ? Right too
Where ? Nope  Even if he was professor in Pavia at the time, most of his researches were done elsewhere.


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## Winters_Sorrow

you're a harsh mistress, Leto


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## Leto

No, just proud of a little known fact.  BTW, the first prototype is still visible there.
*whips the air smiling*


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Who ? Alessandro Volta, right.
> When ? Right too
> Where ? Nope  Even if he was professor in Pavia at the time, most of his researches were done elsewhere.


Winters Sorrow you took the words right out of my mouth. My understanding is that he certainly first demonstrated his invention to Bonaparte so could it be France you are thinking of???????  

Edit* I'll add Paris approx 1799 to the mix.


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## Leto

Nope, it wasn't in France.  He did his demo in 1801 IIRC. You were right about Italy, but not about Pavia.


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## Blue Mythril

Ah I was so hoping someone would debate your answer Leto!  You could also have a strong case for arguing Caesar's rule as the most significant turning point...
I'm liking the electric battery line though 
There no such thing as a harsh taskmistress WS!

Edit: I realised I forgot the important bit: Did he keep doing his research at Como? if so I'll put that as the 'where' part.


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Nope, it wasn't in France.  He did his demo in 1801 IIRC. You were right about Italy, but not about Pavia.


Now I'm confused...   Are you saying it was neither in France or Italy but in another European Country or have I inadvertently answered the question????


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## Leto

well, technically he was in Italy (in his hometown of Como, in Lombardia  ) but he announced this invention by a letter dated of March 20, 1800 (from Como) to the President of Royal Society, Sir Joseph Banks in London, who made the public announcement there .

And Blue Mirthril, constitutionnaly the change took place with Augustus, but technically Julius Caesar started the final part of the process. For me, the major change took place centuries before when Rome went from a kingdom to a republic. The constitutional changes help Rome to success being a leader in Occidental part of the world.


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## Blue Mythril

ha it was Como!
I say that Gollum gets the next question as he pretty much had that question


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> well, technically he was in Italy (in his hometown of Como, in Lombardia  ) but he announced this invention by a letter dated of March 20, 1800 (from Como) to the President of Royal Society, Sir Joseph Banks in London, who made the public announcement there .


Actually I knew about the letter sent to Sir Joseph Banks in London but not where he had actually sent it from.... 

Also technically speaking his reasearch into the electric battery also took place at least for part of that time at the Uni of Pavia itself (as his research really started in earnest as early as 1794), so perhaps it is better to just say Italy rather than one specific place......   

Como was his birthplace also so I guess that would've have been a logical punt.

I'll post a new question shortly folks!


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## Leto

He was a lazy professore and spent more time working in his lab in Como. Anyway, 2,5 right on 3 questions is very good. What yours now ?


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> He was a lazy professore and spent more time working in his lab in Como. Anyway, 2,5 right on 3 questions is very good. What yours now ?


Ahem... OK then moving right along my question will be posted in the next 10 minutes so check back then....


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## GOLLUM

OK in the interests of moving this quiz along I'll make the next one an easy question, well for some people anyway.... 

When (i.e. date) did our friend Mr. Volta get married?
To whom did he get married?
How many children did they have?


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## Leto

He married in November,22, 1794, with Teresa Peregrini, daugther of Count Ludovico Peregrini and they had 3 sons : Zaninio, Flaminio e Luigi.  

Why Hammurabi Code so important ?


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> He married in 1794, with Teresa Peregrini, daugther of Count Ludovico Peregrini and they had 3 sons. Want the exact date ?
> 
> Why Hammurabi Code so important ?


Nope I knew that would be an easy one..  Like Volta I'm lazy......


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## Leto

Too lazy to find out about Hammurabi ?


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## Winters_Sorrow

taking a risk here as it's off the top of my head with no research, but as I recall it's the first written code of laws developed and was the first ever 'legal system'?

if that's wrong then I've made a fool of myself - if that's correct, my question is:
How/When & by Whom were pigs transported to the New World?


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## GOLLUM

Is the Hammurabi code so important because it is the earliest known example of a ruler proclaiming publicly to his people an *entire body of laws*, arranged in orderly groups, so that the populous could read and undertsand what was required of them??

I know that's correct but are you after more?? 

Edit* Beaten by WS maybe, decision plase Leto....


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## Leto

Perfect. Your turn to quizz us.


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Too lazy to find out about Hammurabi ?


Nope just too tired to argue with you ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....... 

Not sure who you mean Moi or WS, I supect we both are corect with Hammurabi, but let WS go for it with his Pigs question...


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## Winters_Sorrow

Well, I managed to kill off that thread!
The answer was Christopher Columbus in 18th October 1942 on board the Santa Maria.

Someone else can come up with a more compelling question!


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## Blue Mythril

Ah it's the time difference WS  The Aussies had to go to bed, give it a day or too for someone to reply.

In the time of which Roman Emperor did Boadicea lead her revolt and what was the main catalyst for it?


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## Leto

Boadicea and her daugther gang rape as a catalyst. And the emperor at that time was Neron IIRC.

Why 1455 is a date to remember and cherish for most Chronicles posters, no matter what their nationalities are ?


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## GOLLUM

WS Bule Mythril's right mate dont' stress! I've played these types of games on other forums and members will often wait several days before posting a response, par for the course.... 

OK Leto I think that date is important because it was when Johannes Gutenberg printed the first book, the Bible.

Am I correct?


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## Leto

You are. Good morning !


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> You are. Good morning !


Good morning to you too actually evening here but you know that already.... 

What other event began in 1455 in Europe.

*Clue* Think acts of violence.
*Clue* Take note of the use of the word "began" in above question.
EDIT *Clue* We're talking a specific country here.

Too many clues??


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## Leto

The War of the Roses ? 
Thank you, Danny De Vito


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## GOLLUM

Correct weight. Your turn.


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## Leto

This one I don't have the answer but it's open to debate : 
- what Napoleon could have done to escape the Russian disaster ?


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## Brian G Turner

Not march on Russia!! 

Who succeeded Hadrian as emperor of the Roman Empire?


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## GOLLUM

Antoninus Pius

Is this correct Brian?


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## Winters_Sorrow

Leto said:
			
		

> This one I don't have the answer but it's open to debate :
> - what Napoleon could have done to escape the Russian disaster ?


 
I just think he was too ambitious.
He should have consolidated his hold on Smolensk & Polotsk and waited till April the following year before marching on Moscow. His supply lines were too tenuous and his men exhausted and unprepared for the Russian climate.

He may have had a harder time if the Russians were given time to recover, but Russia is one cookie you have to nibble your way through, not try to eat it all at once! 


mmm......cookies


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## Blue Mythril

I think we have a challenge to your answer here Brian  WS and Brian, you both have one post each (must be in one day) to provide your five points supporting your arguments and Leto gets to judge your answers.

If Brian wins then we go to Gollum's answer.
If Brian's argument is the same as WS then his question still stands and we go to Gollum.

(Yeah I know guys, I just really really want to get the debate part of the quiz going !! Please please please?)


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## GOLLUM

GOLLUM said:
			
		

> Antoninus Pius
> 
> Is this correct Brian?


HMMM.. Brian's signed off but I've been able to confirm this via Google so I know this is the correct answer. 

OK I'm siging off so *can someone else please post a new question? *


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## Stalker

I said:
			
		

> Not march on Russia!!


100% agreed. He shouldn't have marched to Russia in the first place. After his dubious win at Borodino (French would refer to it as _Bataille de Moscou_), he he was forced to do all what Kutuzov wanted of him? He appeared to became a slave of the situation. And after the fire of Moscow and ruining the food warehouses, after all those atrocities the French army did, he was completely unprepared for guerrilla warfare against his army communications, The battle of Maloyaroslavets was the act of his complete dispair because his even intelligence reported him that Russian Army had restored from Borodino, and his army was loosing its morale. And then came the disaster of Berezina, and only miracle and Ponyatowsky saved the Corsican then.
That was only a remark...


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## Stalker

Name the last king of Rome whom Romans drove out in 6 century BC. Would be also nice if you specified the date.


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## Leto

Lucius Tarquinus Superbus, in 244 (509 BC). And now I'm waiting for Winter_sorrow point of view on Napoleon and Russia to state who from I, Brian of him should ask next question.

Brian, instead of going to Russia, what should he have done ?


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## Winters_Sorrow

Woo-hoo! I actually know this one! 

*Tarquinius Superbus* (what a great name) was a deeply unpopular king and was eventually overthrown by powerful nobles after he was accused of raping the wife of a senator (although this may actually have been commited by his son) 
He fled the city in *510BC *to the Eutruscan (sp?) king to the north to help him restore his throne.
The record is a bit hazy on when/how he died, but he never ruled Rome again and that was also the end of the 'Age of Kings' 

An easy one;
*Who was responsible for the reform of the Roman Military and when did this reform take place?*

*EDIT: *Damn! Beaten to the punch! Curse my verbose bragging! 
Leto. I will try to come up with 5 points as to why I think Napoleon would have conquered Russia had he been more cautious in his approach (of course, it's _all_ subjective!)


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## Leto

WS and Brian, and Stalker (but he already knows how do I feel about the Corsican), don't fear to be subjective. Just read a book about it (a detective novel) and wonder what led to this mess, as my knowledges in military strategy is close to nil.


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## Brian G Turner

Ah, yes, the Rape of Lucretia. 

Anyway, I concede the Russian debate, simply because I didn't have enough time to formulate a more detailed answer - but I really wanted to ask somethnig about the Romans.


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## Stalker

Do you mean *Gaius Marius* and his Numidian legions (the date, however I doubt, I think it happend during his Consulate in 107 AD (646 Anno Urbi Conditori)), or that land reform of *Gracchi* brothers?


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## Blue Mythril

You and me both Brian  I maintain its a form of study for my exam on Sat


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## Winters_Sorrow

Stalker, yes it was Gaius Marius. 
I personally think his reforms of the military were of greather significance and had more important far reaching implications than the reforms of the Gracchi brothers (were their reforms about the army veterans getting land at the end of their service? because I thought Marius devised that as well?)

Either way, you win so can set the next question (pencil at the ready, Blue?  )


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## Stalker

All right then...

It should be an interesting question, I guess. What was the Latin Empire and how long did it last?


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## GOLLUM

Are you referring to the Latin Empire of Constantinople from 1204–61, a feudal empire established in the South Balkan Peninsula and the Greek archipelago by the leaders of one of the later Crusades following the sacking of Constantinople; also known as the empire of Romania?????

*EDIT* * If I'm correct someone else can have a go I'm off to catch some ZZZZZZZZZZsss


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## Stalker

Yep, correct answer!

Who's gonna ask his question?


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## Stalker

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> Stalker, yes it was Gaius Marius.
> I personally think his reforms of the military were of greather significance and had more important far reaching implications than the reforms of the Gracchi brothers (were their reforms about the army veterans getting land at the end of their service? because I thought Marius devised that as well?)
> 
> Either way, you win so can set the next question (pencil at the ready, Blue?  )


I should agree ith you on this. That reform of Marius was of crucial importance for Rome in all respects. It put the Roman military from the rails of militia to mercenary type and that resulted in bloody civil wars not in the least because each great general (or senator) of Rome could have the army of his own to protect his interests. Unfortunately, Gaius Marius became the first victim of a civil war having lost to that bloody dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla. And after that Rome became a real agressor.


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## Winters_Sorrow

Well you could argue that Roman aggression was evident from its foundation. I would say that, in the main, Roman expansionism was due to the need to keep the military occupied to prevent the civil wars you mentioned (even though they continued anyway, Pompey v Caesar, Octavian v Mark Antony (Antonius))

A clever move by Octavian (later Augustus) was to station nearly all the legions in the outer provinces and ensure that these provinces came under the direct control of the Emperor


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## Stalker

A clever, indeed. Pulling legions to provinces, formation of Pretorian guard in Rome, and the chain mail ander toga while sitting in the Curia of the Senate. Octavian was an apt student, don't you think? 

All right, WS, may be, it's your turn to ask the question?


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## Winters_Sorrow

I feel that I've asked more than my fair share, but all this Roman revival going on has sparked my memory about the film "Gladiator" and its artistic license over the death of Commodus. So:

*Q: In real life, how did Commodus die?*


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## Leto

Poisoned by his concubine then strangled by hiw wrestling partner, during the same night.


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## Winters_Sorrow

well played, Leto! 

you get the honour of the next question


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## Leto

Still in roman history, what were the roman tribes, what was their constitutional role and how many of them existed (a repartition between city and countryside is a plus but not mandatory ) ?


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## Stalker

In modern terms, tribes were electorial districts. There were 35 tribes in Rome.They, for example, elected tribuns. Now, I need to pick up my history books to say if they elected only plebeyan authorities or if they also elected consules and magistrates.


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## Leto

Good one.  Your turn.


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## Stalker

I would like to start a series of questions that rely not only on pure knowledge but also on imagination, ability to generalise and you sense of humor, probably. 
Let's come from Rome to less distant times.
Here the first:
Please give me a name of the man who by screaming out an expletive, by swearing, entered the history as the hero. If possible, indicate the word(s) this hero ()  said and the circumstance. Good luck!


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## Leto

Cambronne. And sorry for that, but the word he said was _Merde_


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## Stalker

*Bingo!* Leto, despite your attitude to that man who was Cambronne's direct commander, you are the one who should have answered that question at once! That was what I frankly expected and you didn't fail me!  

I only add the place: it, of course, Waterloo, and his reply "_Merde" - _"_Sh...t_!" - excuse my French -  was the response to English colonel's words: "Brave French, surrender!". My compliments, and here's your turn!


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## Leto

Back to Antique time, silphium or silphion or laser was the main exportation of Cyrene greek colony. Effectivly leading to the extinction of this plant, belonging to the same family than parsley. What was its main use ?


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## Stalker

Probably, keeping fire in the fireplace? I think, it was used as analogue of our maches and lighters. The legent also tells Prometeus used it to give fire to people. Is that correct?


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## Stalker

No, I changed my mind - it was used as a spice or even an ancient drug.


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## GOLLUM

*FYI*

*Siplhium*​
Reported medical uses for the juice included remedies for cough, sore throat, fever, indigestion, fluid retention, seizures, aches and pains.  The sap was supposed to be able to remove warts and other growths.  In addition, Pliny wrote that silphium could be used for a variety of diverse conditions including treatment of leprosy, to restore hair, cleanse retained afterbirth from the womb and as an antidote for poisons.  Potions made from silphium were supposedly among the most effective birth-control methods known at the time.

Is it Stalker's turn now??


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## Leto

EDIT : yes it's a drug, but Gollum article mentionned more uses although not main one as a contraceptive. So why don't both of you ask a question ?


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Totally.... false.


Seriously? This is a posted qoute so I defer to your better judegment LOL! 

Anyway is anyone close to this answer yet Leto????

*EDIT*Let Stalker have the next go I don't mind either way... 

*EDIT EDIT * Yeh tell me about it HE HE...


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## Leto

Edited previous post, this thread goes sometimes too quick. The False answer was for the first Stalker answer : uses as a match


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## Stalker

I guess, your turn to ask the question, Gollum.


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## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> I guess, your turn to ask the question, Gollum.


Re: my post on previuos page you go mate!


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## Stalker

All right then!

Easy one: he was the 16th of 43.


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## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> All right then!
> 
> Easy one: he was the 16th of 43.


No idea..... 

Time for the "modified' thinking cap...


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## Leto

You're not reffering to the W Bush ? no ?
He was the 16th president to be re-elected among the 43 US president.


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## Winters_Sorrow

*passes Gollum some lemons*

I dunno either but it sounds like a large family 
clue needed perhaps?


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## Winters_Sorrow

If it is US presidents then Abe Lincoln?


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## Stalker

That's correct, WS.
Your turn to ask.


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## GOLLUM

YOOHOO WS you out there somewhere? we're all waiting....  not that I can see anything through all this juice in my eyes DARN IT!!


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## Stalker

Leto said:
			
		

> You're not reffering to the W Bush ? no ?
> He was the 16th president to be re-elected among the 43 US president.


Wow, Leto, I simply never calculated the re-elected presidents, so I really meant Long Abe. That makes my question ambiguous, so you are free to ask your question 'cos it seems that WS is nowhere here in any case...


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## Winters_Sorrow

Sorry - everynow & then work intrudes on my private life 

the question is thus:
*Q: Which ancient figure is credited with creating the myth(?) of Atlantis?*
*Bonus point if you get his rather more famous pupil and his illustrious predecessor *


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## GOLLUM

HMM.. I've managed to wring most of that juice out of my retinas WS so how about...

The Isle of Atlantis first occurs in Plato's two dialogues the "Timaeus" and the "Critias"

OH his famous pupil I assume was Aristotle..

Socrates was Plato's teacher.

Correct??


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## Winters_Sorrow

So I guess you don't want the bonus points? 
First one for the full set wins!

(I'm going to have to devise some more devious questions, you guys are a bit too knowledgeable for the easy stuff...!)


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## GOLLUM

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> So I guess you don't want the bonus points?
> First one for the full set wins!
> 
> (I'm going to have to devise some more devious questions, you guys are a bit too knowledgeable for the easy stuff...!)


Check out my above Edited answer....


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## Blue Mythril

Socrates was Plato's predecessor, Aristotle his pupil


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## GOLLUM

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> Socrates was Plato's predecessor, Aristotle his pupil


Bad luck I was first Re: previous 2 posts HE HE...


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## Blue Mythril

Yeah I know, thats cheating editing a post while I'm posting my post


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## Winters_Sorrow

Sorry BM, the Aussie wizard from the East Coast wins again!


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## GOLLUM

OK I'm going to be a bit cheeky here because I know I'm correct (along with Blue Mythril) and ask the following question, a faily easy one.. 

*Name Plato's parents for me.*


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## Leto

Ariston and Perictione


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## GOLLUM

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> Yeah I know, thats cheating editing a post while I'm posting my post


Not when you consider the time frame that puts me ahead.... 

OK OK answer the new question it's not too hard, after all us Aussies need to stick together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi!


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## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Ariston and Perictione


Ah the Mistress of Knowledge has arrived.... 

Your go Leto!


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## Leto

too late


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## Leto

No, just the Google sorceress... 
An easy one, what is the common point between medieval poet Francois Villon and american writer Ambrose Bierce ?


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## Blue Mythril

They both have French names 


> OK OK answer the new question it's not too hard, after all us Aussies need to stick together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!


Ah, I'm not one to count on at the moment, distracted by studying for my Latin exam tomorrow.. *sigh*


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## GOLLUM

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> They both have French names
> 
> Ah, I'm not one to count on at the moment, distracted by studying for my Latin exam tomorrow.. *sigh*


In that case a heartfelt GOOD LUCK!!! or should that be Bona Fortuna!!!!!!

Never forget BM "Scientia est potentia"!!!

All the best for tommorow friend...


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## Stalker

And Aristotle's pupil was Alexander the Great! But he made himself a Great in quite a different field of science rather than philosophy.


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## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> And Aristotle's pupil was Alexander the Great! But he made himself a Great in quite a different field of science rather than philosophy.


Excellent point Stalker, you should get a bonus point for that!


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## Leto

Good luck BM. That's not the point I was thinking of, both that's true too. Your turn...


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## Blue Mythril

> In that case a heartfelt GOOD LUCK!!! or should that be Bona Fortuna!!!!!!


Thankyou!  Vale! ire debeo!


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## GOLLUM

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> Thankyou!  Vale! ire debeo!


Farewell to you too my friend!

Never forget BM "Scientia est potentia"!!! 

I'm catching some ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZs now.


----------



## GOLLUM

Blue Mithril,

Checked with Leto and when you log on it's your turn next to ask a History question.

We'll await your next post... 

BTW hope things went OK with the Latin exam???


----------



## Blue Mythril

How come it's my turn?

(Edit: Was I right with the French names thing? I was just being a smartarse cos I had no idea )

Ok  In the vein of my Latin exam (which was ok except my lecturer was mean and slipped in some words that were not on our 450 word vocab list and a four line long sentence! ) *who wrote (full nume) the text from which the quote below comes, when was it* *written and what was it called? 
*_Bonus point: Who was the prominant man in politics contemporary to this text?_


----------



## Stalker

Do you mean the quote that is placed in your signature?


----------



## Leto

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> How come it's my turn?
> 
> (Edit: Was I right with the French names thing? I was just being a smartarse cos I had no idea )


Yep, the thing I was looking is that we have no idea on when those two writers died, but that was one more common point.


----------



## Leto

Not fair, typing it in Google only direct me to your own posts !


----------



## Stalker

Aha, I've got the same experience!


----------



## Leto

Got it. Publius Ovidius Naso aka Ovid in the book 2 of Ars Armatoria (which I've read under L'art d'aimer title and better known to you as The Art of Love). Supposely written in 2 BC


----------



## Blue Mythril

Ah I'm so so sorry, I forgot to post the quote!
*Diuturni silenti, patres conscripti, quo eram his temporibus usus; non timore aliquo, sed pertim dolore, partim verecundia; finem hodiernus dies attulit, idemque initium quae vellem quaeque sentirem meo pristino more dicendi. * 

To be nice here's the english 
_This day, O conscript fathers, has brought with it an end to the long silence in which I have of late indulged; not out of any fear, but partly from sorrow, partly from modesty; and at the same time it has revived in me my ancient habit of saying what my wishes and opinions are.

_Edit: Ha, you googlers


----------



## Leto

Cicero, written in 51 BC for MARCUS CLAUDIUS MARCELLUS, "Speach on behalf of MARCUS CLAUDIUS MARCELLUS"
Looking for complete name of Cicero.
Edit :  to you, and Cicero is Marcus Tullius Cicero.


----------



## Blue Mythril

Leto said:
			
		

> Got it. Publius Ovidius Naso aka Ovid in the book 2 of Ars Armatoria (which I've read under L'art d'aimer title and better known to you as The Art of Love). Supposely written in 2 BC



Woah! You mean my sig was actually a quote?? I've read snatches of Ovid but never come across that before!
How funny is that?


----------



## Leto

Not the exact translation, but according to Ovid, that's what Daedalus told to his nephew Icarus.


----------



## Stalker

Wow, Leto, I am impressed greatly! 
*boastingly*
BM, if I start enumerating politicians contemporary to Marcus Tullius Cicero, it would be a long list. 
So, I presume, Leto's answer is correct?


----------



## Blue Mythril

Yes Leto was correct, or should I say google was correct 
And it was under the dictatorship of Sulla. I thought the fact that I didn't say Consul would have given it away or at least narrowed it down 

EDit: woops, Caesar not sulla, I have sulla on the brain


----------



## GOLLUM

Hello all time to join this party.... 

Hey where's WS go to????


----------



## Blue Mythril

Wait, I think leto has the wrong date... Now I have to go check my textbook dammit


----------



## Stalker

Leto dated the Cicero's oration which you quoted by 51 B.C. Sulla had been dead by then for 27 yers. Or have I  missed the point?


----------



## GOLLUM

Blue Mythril said:
			
		

> Wait, I think leto has the wrong date... Now I have to go check my textbook dammit


Hope it isn't too far away the suspense is killing me....


----------



## Leto

Ok, I'm not sure Google will help you a lot with this one. 
Why the same name "Simon de Monfort" is associated to a bloody killer for some and to the "father of Parliament" to others ?


----------



## Leto

Not sure about the date. But the author and the speech in question, unfortunatly, I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Blue Mythril

Yes the author and speech were right, I edited my Sulla post (I have Sulla on the brain for my exam sat) as it was Caesar to whom Cicero was making pointed comments.
The date was 46B.C


----------



## GOLLUM

I have no idea waht you're referring to LETO unless this is what you mean??? 

Simon de Montfort, a baron from Normandy in the 1200s refused to change his mind over the need for a permanent council with King Edward of England. Montfort had a reputation for being sympathetic to the needs of ordinary people. This helped him gain the support of the majority of people who lived in the large towns and cities. For example, in London the people rebelled against Henry and handed over the city to Montfort.

After rallying his supporters, the king decided to take on Montfort's army. The two sides met at Lewes in Sussex on 14th May 1264. The bishops of Chichester, London and Worcester, who were all supporters of Simon de Montfort, attempted to negotiate a truce before the battle started. However Henry, who had a much larger army and was confident of victory, refused to do a deal.

Montfort had recently broken his leg falling from a horse and had to direct operations while sitting in a cart. However, it did not stop him winning a famous victory. At the end of the battle the king had been captured and those members of his army that had survived had fled from the battlefield.

Montfort and his second in command, Gilbert the Red, now organized a new parliament. As well as barons and leaders of the church, two representatives from each town were invited to attend parliament.

*Obvious why he is called Father of parliament but Killer because he destroyed King's troops unsure??*

He himself was killed in a later conflict, his body mutiolated and his head displayed as a warning to others around the country...


----------



## Leto

Do you think I would ask for such an easy answer that one name cover only one person ?


----------



## GOLLUM

Leto said:
			
		

> Do you think I would ask for such an easy answer that one name cover only one person ?


So I have I got the father of parliament part correct at least for this Simon montfort??


----------



## Leto

yep, now find the Butcher. 
The term Butcher is just one of his numerous nickname because of a course of actions he've done. He was mostly known under his real name "Simon de Monfort" (even in english books)


----------



## Stalker

A famous phrase:
“Kill them all and let God sort them out.”​_and it is attributed to Simon De Monfort, as he embarked on the Albigensian Crusade in 1229.​_


----------



## Leto

Stalker said:
			
		

> A famous phrase:
> “Kill them all and let God sort them out.”​_and it is attributed to Simon De Monfort, as he embarked on the Albigensian Crusade in 1229.​_


Yep too, that's my butcher. But the sentence is a fake. as he was supposed to have said that during the Béziers siege.
Now, before you and Gollum ask your questions, what's the relation between the 2?


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> A famous phrase:
> “Kill them all and let God sort them out.”​_and it is attributed to Simon De Monfort, as he embarked on the Albigensian Crusade in 1229.​_


that alone wouldn't make him a butcxher.

Aren't you saying Leto that this other Simon Montfort is a different person in another era of history??


----------



## GOLLUM

The butcher is the father of the parliament dude??


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Simon the Butcher was the father of the English (?) Simon who fought Henry III

p.s. I'm _back_, folks! 

EDIT: guess I didn't come back fast enough though...


----------



## GOLLUM

Hmm.. Wikpedia seems to suggest theyr'e the same person??

Wikpedia link says he both got involved in the battle with King Edward and attended the Albergionisen crusade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_de_Montfort,_6th_Earl_of_Leicester


----------



## Leto

GOLLUM said:
			
		

> that alone wouldn't make him a butcxher.
> 
> Aren't you saying Leto that this other Simon Montfort is a different person in another era of history??


Eradicating whole cities population as he did several time during this Crusade (including aformentioned Béziers) gave him this nickname.

And yes Simon III de Monfort is the father of Simon IV de Monfort.


----------



## GOLLUM

So am I the next person to post a question now??


----------



## Leto

Re-read Wikipedia article


> Simon de Montfort, 6th Earl of Leicester (1208 – August 4, 1265) was the principal leader of the baronial opposition to king Henry III of England.
> He was the youngest son of Simon de Montfort, a French nobleman, and Alix of Montmorency.


----------



## GOLLUM

*Will post a new question shortly...*

Leto,

I'll take your word for it as the resident history professor but then why does the next sentence/para say:

As a boy, Simon accompanied his parents during his father's campaigns against the Cathars. He was with his mother at the siege of Toulouse in 1218, where his father was killed after being struck on the head by a stone pitched by a mangonel. On the death of their father, Simon's elder brother Amaury succeeded him. Another brother, Guy, was killed at the siege of Castelnaudary in 1220. *As a young man, Simon probably took part in the Albigensian Crusades of the early 1220s.*

Unless father and son were involved... 
*
EDIT * What's actually confusing me is Stalker's qoute circa 1229 vs. the father definitely involved in these crusades *but at an earlier date * see what I mean??


----------



## Leto

Because the young one wasn't in the leading position. That's his father who gave the orders to eradicate populations. 
Go with your question, instead of being picky... Stalker quote is a famous fake.


----------



## GOLLUM

Will do shortly I just like to get things clear.... 

After all historical accuracy is important you as the Professor would recognise that I'm sure.


----------



## GOLLUM

A fairly easy one..

The Albigensian Crusade (1209-1229) was a 20-year campaign.

1. Who were the crusaders trying to eliminate i.e I'm after the name of a group of people specifically.

2. *And * can you describe this group's philosophy or belief system i.e what did they believe in?


----------



## Stalker

I indicated the wrong date - the date of the peace treaty when all cathars (albigesians, albigoyans) were eradicated. My fault.


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> I indicated the wrong date - the date of the peace treaty when all cathars (albigesians, albigoyans) were eradicated. My fault.


No problem, can you list the answers to my 2 part question...


----------



## Stalker

1. Crusders... When Innocent III called for crusade against Cathars (especially in Laguedoc) all righteous Catholics could join the Crusade but the first among the ecual was the king of France. 

2. Oh, Cathars were Christian heretics and they claimed that they were the only ones who preserved Early Christian believes, they denied Holy Trinity and were close to Manicheans claiming that this evil world was created by the Evil God, and The God of Goodness fights him. They also referred to some passage in the Gospel about seed lost in vain, bla-bla-bla. So, they considered sex as the sin that leads to new lost souls in the worlds of evil. Some even say that they didn't believe that the Christ died on the cross, and that he gave His seed to initiate the new gender here in the Southern France, and the Counts of Touluse derived from this seed and so on and so on.
I should also remark that Languedoc at that time was one of the most clean and higly-cultured places in the world.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Well, Leto will probably beat me to the punch on this one, but it was:
1. The Cathars
2. They believed that the world was created by an evil deity called the Demiurge(essentially, that God _was_ the Devil!  ), that Jesus was an apparition, that marriage & procreation was a sin (by bringing more souls into this evil world). Cathars were vegetarians, treated women as social equals and believed that oaths & promises tied you to this evil world and were therefore a sin.

Plenty of good reasons why the rest of the medivel world loathed them, really


----------



## GOLLUM

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> Well, Leto will probably beat me to the punch on this one, but it was:
> 1. The Cathars
> 2. They believed that the world was created by an evil deity called the Demiurge(essentially, that God _was_ the Devil!  ), that Jesus was an apparition, that marriage & procreation was a sin (by bringing more souls into this evil world). Cathars were vegetarians, treated women as social equals and believed that oaths & promises tied you to this evil world and were therefore a sin.
> 
> Plenty of good reasons why the rest of the medivel world loathed them, really


Bad luck *Chilli and Lime * man but I think in fairness Stalker got there first...

*Your turn Stalker*... 

*EDIT* Good night all!!!


----------



## Stalker

All right then...

My question may seem to be very difficult unless somebody knows the exact fact, nonetheless I find this very fact extremely interesting.
To the point: during WW 2, The US Naval units operating in the Pacific against the Japanese exchanged the messages in the "code" that drove mad the Japanese criptologists and the services of radio-intercepts unable to crack it untilthe end of the war.
Tell me more about this "code"
*A hint*: The word "code" is in quotations because it may mean a different word but by giving it away to you I will surely narrow your search to the minimum. So, the brainstorm starts...


----------



## Leto

It was based on Navajo language ? 
Good answer on cathars people above... Sorry to have missed this one, had a appointement where to pretend to work.


----------



## Stalker

Leto, you impress me more and more every time.  Did you know the fact?

You are welcome to ask your question.

*EDITED:* Americans simply conscripted 20,000 Navajo Indians to the US Navy, they all became radiomen and just spoke their language transmitting messages. No encoding at all! Simple and genial, and they could be sure that in Tokio was not a single philologist familiar with that language.


----------



## Leto

Windtalker with Nicholas Cage brought the fact to most people. And i think Graham Masterton did mentionned the fact in one of his book.

Oh, for my question. This battle took place in Europe, it went for 300 days and nights. It took the live of between 300 000 and 400 000 soldiers (on both sides) and wounded 800 000 more.  Where and when did it take place ?


----------



## Stalker

The figures you describe may match many battles of the Great War and WW 2.
There come to mind the Battle of Verdun, the Battle of Stalingrad; they lasted long time and had very similar figures of casualties but none of them lasted 10 months as you put it: Verdun (feb-july, 1916), Stalingrade (aug, 1942-jan, 1943). I think I came close, still...


----------



## Leto

Once again very close, but figures not accurate. At least, one of the battle you stated was divided in several stages (defensive, then offensive and so one) so some book precise 1st battle of..., and 2nd battle of.... But soldiers which went there, and most historians in the countries involved consider the 300 days as a quite accurate figure.


----------



## Stalker

So, then Verdun?
EDIT: *21 February- 16 December 1916*


----------



## Leto

Right. (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Verdun)
Your turn.


----------



## Stalker

Love rebuses...
They were 34-ers and they initially had 76-ers. When 41st came, no 75-ers could oppose them, face-to-face, only 88-ers.
Question: what a crap am I talking about?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Those sound like gun barrel measurements for tanks or field guns
I think the original british matilda tanks had 34 pounders.
The 88's were german guns which reigned supreme on the battlefield until pretty much the end of the war.

I'm going to guess Russian tanks - maybe T34's? 
Then later the KV tanks which had the heavier poundage you mentioned


----------



## Stalker

T-34s - that's correct answer. In 1941 with the start of German offensive, they met T-34, the best tanks of the world in 1941. It was really a nasty shock for Wehrmacht!!! German AT 75 short-barrel gun could not penetrate sloped front armor of T-34, only 88-mm AA-guns. By 1943 Germans captured T-34'76 (76,2 mm AT-cannon) in numbers enough to form several Panzer divisions but by the beginning of 1943 they started to use them as infantry support vehicles behind their lines because of the problem of recognition - the very silhouette of T-34 scared German tankers to death and they opened fire not even asking whether there was a friend or foe?
Your turn, WS


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Q: What are Victoria Crosses made of and in which conflict & battle were they originally made to commemorate?


----------



## Leto

From the bronze of Chinese cannons captured during the battle of Sebastopol between UK and Russia. They were originally made to commemorate the Crimean war.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Correct!

Ladies choice


----------



## Stalker

Well, the Victoria Cross is the medal aimed originally to commemorate the valour of the British soldiers during Crimean war and was originally made of the bronze alloy cast from the Russian guns captured during the siege of Sevastopol.

Interesting fact, I didn't know it but Google helped.
EDIT: Aha, I was the second horse in the race... Leto is going to ask the question


----------



## Leto

Ok, enough with those war stories, let's see if you're as good in practical history :

Who, in modern times, invented the bra, and when ? Don't want to hear about Cretan times, but of the modern feminine (and hugely over-size masculine) lingerie clothes.


----------



## Stalker

A woman in New-York somewhere between 1910-1920. Simple, by uniting two handkerchiefs. That's what I can remember at once. Now, I'll check for more precise info. By means of Google.


----------



## Leto

Wrong answer.


----------



## Stalker

The invention of the bra(ssiere) is attributed to Mary Phelps Jacobs (1913-1914). But there is a serious argument on the subject whether it was her.

*EDITED:* Here, I qoute from the following URL http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/brassiere/: 

"Many authors claim that the bra was invented by one Otto Titzling. However, it turns out that this story first appeared in the book _Bust Up: The Uplifting Tale of Otto Titzling_ by Wallace Reyburn (the same guy that wrote the humorous book that describes how Thomas Crapper invented the toilet). The book claims that Titzling invented the bra with the help of his assistant Hans Delving in 1912. They designed the bra for a Swedish athlete named Lois Lung. Titzling then sued a Frenchman named Phillipe de Brassiere for patent infringement in the 1930's. As you can see from these names, the story is probably pure fiction (especially since, as we will see below, Mary Phelps Jacobs takes credit for the first documented use of the name brassiere in 1914).  


If you check most current literature, you will find the following story:  

The first modern bra was invented by a New York socialite named Mary Phelps Jacob way back in 1913 (I'm sure that a lot of women want to believe that a man invented this torturous device, but it was a woman).  

Mary had just purchased a sheer evening gown for one of her social events that poor people like myself will never get to attend.  

She had a problem.  

At that time, corsets that were stiffened with whaleback bones were the accepted undergarment. Unfortunately, whaleback corsets and sheer evening gowns just don't go together well.  In one of those great flashes of genius, Mary came up with a great solution. Together with her French maid Marie, Mary took two handkerchiefs, ribbon, and some cord and devised a simple backless brassiere.  "


----------



## Leto

Nope. Brassieres were invented earlier, she just patented them for the US and rediscovered something already done before.
Even edited its still wrong.
A tip ? Mata-Hari wore some.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Stalker said:
			
		

> Well, the Victoria Cross is the medal aimed originally to commemorate the valour of the British soldiers during Crimean war and was originally made of the bronze alloy cast from the Russian guns captured during the siege of Sevastopol.
> 
> Interesting fact, I didn't know it but Google helped.
> EDIT: Aha, I was the second horse in the race... Leto is going to ask the question


 
It's actually still made of the same material - estimates are that there's only enough for another 1,000 medals or so 

And, as for Leto's question. Funnily enough, it's not something that ever interested me, but the "credited" inventor is Mary Phelps Jacob in 1913.
However, there seems to have been similar inventions going back to Ancient Greece where women wore a chest-binding garment called a mastodeton or apodesmos. 

EDIT: Seems we are both wrong, Stalker!
I'll change it to Clara P Clark's improved corset in 1874 then Leto?


----------



## Leto

Both wrong boys.
Edited : from corset yes, but not by this lady.


----------



## Stalker

*Otto Titzling* - when I copied the quotation, I didn't pay much attention to it but now I shall admit that it's quite a proper name for the inventor of the bra.


----------



## Leto

Nope. Don't know how a man could even think of it.


----------



## Stalker

All right, Levins' conclusion is that a woman named *Marie Tucek* patented the first brassiere *in 1893*. This "*breast supporter*", as she called it, looked very similar to the modern brassiere.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Well, we're obviously all completely guessing now, but I'll say *Herminie Cadolle in 1889* - although I must say in doing my 'research' for this  - there are several people who can claim to have invented some version of the bra.


----------



## Stalker

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> Well, we're obviously all completely guessing now, but I'll say *Herminie Cadolle in 1889* - although I must say in doing my 'research' for this  - there are several people who can claim to have invented some version of the bra.


Yep, now the correct answer depends upon what sourse of information Leto supports.


----------



## Leto

Winter is correct, and here's some more details for you  : 





> About 1908, the bra took on its supporting role. Contrary to some popular beliefs, the bra was not invented by the German named Otto Titzling, but rather it came about through the efforts of the French seamstress and corsetiere Hermione Cadolle, Paul Poiret, and an American described as 'Lucile'


http://mrbra.com/historyofbras.ivnu

And from Yahoo! : http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20050330.html

Now, it's your turn to stuck us.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

mybra.com?
The world always manages to surprise me 

Well to carry on the clothing theme, who is credited with inventing the bikini & when? (god bless them!)


----------



## Leto

The story of this ispy bitsy tiny piece of clothes began in 1946 with its invention bvy Louis Reard and Jacques Heim, almost in the same time but separated. Named after the Bikini atoll.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Ah, you even got my 'them' clue!
Might of known you'd spot your fellow countrymen, though 

(figures that a woman invents the bra and a man invents the bikini, does't it?  )

Your go!

Oh, it was at the Paris fashion show in 1946 for anyone interested out there (well, it was for Reard. Heim created it a few months earlier but didn't have as good a publicity vehicle as Reard, so Reard got all the glory!)


----------



## Leto

Ok, not a French. Who invented portable pencil sharpener ?


----------



## Stalker

Was it John Lee Love who patented his pencil harpener in 1897?


----------



## Leto

yep, your turn.


----------



## Stalker

Well...
The Holy Bible occupies the 1st place among bestselling books ever published but it has many authors.
But the book that occupies the 2nd position among bestsellers was written by a single author. Who is he and what is the title of the book?


----------



## Leto

Le petit prince (the little prince) by Antoine de St-Exupéry.


----------



## Stalker

I love that story by Antoine de St-Exupéry for its humour and philosophy, its pictures and especially for that boa which dovoured the elephant. 
Regretfully, my answer is *NO*. *Not him*.


----------



## Leto

Not the Ikea catalog which claimed to had sold more than the Bible in 2003 ?


----------



## Stalker

I am telling about the best-selling books of all time. That is precise data because of the number of copies indicated. Not only during 2003.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

It'll be the Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien.
I still think it's too wordy, but it did have a sweeping story arc & massive backstory


----------



## Stalker

Sorry to disappoint you but *NO*, again. With all my due respect and love for JRR Tolkien. He's not even in top ten, believe you or not! The count goes for hundreds of millions of copies, mind you, my friend?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

clue as to nationality of author?


----------



## Stalker

The only thing - he's not European.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Ok - complete guess, based on my cynical knowledge of human nature

The Kama Sutra - by Vatsyayana?


----------



## Stalker

Miss again but I liked the way of your thinking! 

*A hint:* You only imagine who could write a book subject for reading *by hundreds of millions*!!!


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Cheated eventually - Chairman Mao's little red book seems to be the one.

Although, as I recall he gave them away and made it an offense not to have a copy, so I'm not sure that it should count


----------



## Stalker

Right you are, sir!!!
Chairman Mao Tze Tung's little red book!
Various sources indicate 900 000 copies. The Holy Bible - over 6 billion copies. A strange thing, starting this question, I thought I should put forth Euclides' Elements because this particular book should have become the 2nd one.
Nonetheless, you turn, WS!


----------



## Leto

what ? the book I've got in my toilets (true but long story) is the second most read ? How many people need to know the Yang Tse is a good river to swim because it's large and deep ? 
Very good question Stalker.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Still stuck at work, so a quick question for you:

Name the "sacred" drink of the Aztec Empire?


----------



## Stalker

Thanks, sweet Leto.

Now, waiting for WS to pose his question.


----------



## Leto

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> Still stuck at work, so a quick question for you:
> 
> Name the "sacred" drink of the Aztec Empire?


Cocoa


----------



## Stalker

Choko-latle

Chocolade


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Sorry folks - the internet packed up at work and I wasn't able to get back to the site.

Cocoa is correct!
Stalker your answer is correct too (impressed that you managed to come up with the Aztec name for it!)

Fire away, Leto!


----------



## Leto

a jeopardy enigma, 
Sold in 1971 through an ad in Scientific American Magazine for the amazing price of 750 USD, I was bought by only around 40 people. Now, there's less than 10 active model, but my great-grand sons are anywhere and 100 times more intelligent than me.
What I am ? Want the type and the exact name of this object.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

The Hewlett Packard HP9810 Calculator?


----------



## Leto

Nope.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Aha!
Must be the infamous Kenbak-1 then!
(I'm nearly getting as good as this google surfing as you now, Leto  )


----------



## Leto

Good job. That's it. Just picked at random one of my own paper for this one. 
Your turn.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

To follow on the Jeopardy theme:
"Which event in 1895 at the Grand Cafe in Paris created an entire industry and revolutionised the world of popular entertainment?"


----------



## Leto

no need to googlize this one. One of the first public projection of the Frères Lumière cinematograph. with movies as : La sortie des usines Lumière and l'arroseur arrosé.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Damn, I thought I might have made a mistake putting in the location


----------



## Leto

Who was Samuel Clemens ?


----------



## nixie

the novelist Mark Twain.


----------



## Leto

Right. Your turn to ask a question.


----------



## nixie

What was Rasputin's middle name?

I should read all of the thread before posting,now I have to ask something real easy


----------



## Leto

Yefimovich ?


----------



## nixie

correct


----------



## Leto

OK, then : how did the Marquis de Sade, of noble ascent, survived the French revolution ?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

does it involve pineapples, french maids & whips? (damn, where's my medication??  )


----------



## Leto

Nope. Pineapples and Sade, care to explain ?


----------



## nixie

I know he spend a lot of time in prison.This a guess ,was it something to do with his rejection of his class,and the way he embraced the brutality of the revolution?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Not particularly, especially on a child-friendly website 

Did he escape by shouting from the Bastille on June 2nd 1789 to passersby that the prisoners were being killed?
He was then transferred on July 4th to another facility called Charenton (an insane asylum), thus missing the storming of the Bastille by a matter of 10 days!


----------



## Leto

no, nixie, because - Marquis de Sade never approved of the guillotine use. Believe it or not,  he wrote one of the best text against death penalty
                          - even rejection of their class didn't save some noble's head.
However, the prison link is a good one. And WS is even getting closer. The transfert helped but how ?


----------



## nixie

Was he imprisoned in Italy at the time?


----------



## Leto

No in France


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Shot in the dark, but was he recognised as one of the 863 conquerors of the bastille and later pardoned?


----------



## Leto

Nope, remember that Revolution was a dangerous time from 1789 till almost the ascent of Bonaparte. And Sade survived it, and - as a clue - without even making any voluntary effort for.


----------



## nixie

Was it because he was imprisoned in the Bastille at the time .and so was released with the rest of the prisoners during the revolution,and as his crimes were considered petty they were not clased as a public priority?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

The only other thing I can discover, is that he wrote a eulogy for Jean-Paul Marat in 1793 which was so moving it got him released from the asylum & appointed secretary for his district of Paris.


----------



## Leto

Just before his mother in law got him back in... As usual. 
Ok, as I'm not certain google as the exact answer - at least in english - it's your turn WS. 
He saved his head during Revolution simply because the lack of real prison administration at this time. During the transfert, his file was lost, and when they wanted to "shorten him" for being a noble (not for being unpleasant to his mother-in-law because he loved the wrong daugther, or the crime he was accused of, IIRC accidentaly poisoning a prostitute), they didn't know in with prison he was...


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Interesting, I would have thought his fairly unique name, vocation & position would have given him away but there you are! 

Time to cross the channel & get your feet wet! 

Q:Which English Renaissance figure is perhaps better remembered for his untimely violent death in the local boozer, than his work?


----------



## Leto

Christopher Marlowe ?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Damn, you're good! 

Yes indeed, Christopher "Kit" Marlowe was stabbed to death in Deptford at the house of Eleanor Bull (not a boozer, but its a common urban myth so I thought I'd roll with it)

Go ahead with the next question, but take your time or make it really tough (because those last few were _*easy!*_  ) because I've got to get some sleep before my head hits the keyboard.
Au Reviour, Prof


----------



## Leto

Yeah, knew reading Neil Gaiman would help me some day.... !

Have to catch some sleep too. Good night.


----------



## Stalker

Hel-lo-o! Anybody here?

Leto, where are you? Take a cup of coffee, a croissant and ask your question!!


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker,

I've been here for a couple of hours already but thought patience the better part of valour, especially where the Professor is involved...


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

She'll pick you up by your ear and walk you to the principal's office


----------



## Stalker

You are probably right, The Keeper of the Precious Thing! 

Heil to Proffessor! 
Waiting quetly and patiently.


----------



## Leto

Hey it's Saturday, can't a girl oversleep this day ? 

Who is Anna Leon Owens ?


----------



## GOLLUM

Um..wasn't she the real life Anna Harriette Crawford Leonowens who the films Anna and the King and The King and I were based upon??

Here's a link to her bio:

http://womenshistory.about.com/library/bio/blleonowens.htm


----------



## Stalker

You mean a teacher of English at the Thai King's court? A nice musical with Yul Brynner as King Mongkut is what I remember but the story was too idealized in the movie.


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> You mean a teacher of English at the Thai King's court? A nice musical with Yul Brynner as King Mongkut is what I remember but the story was too idealized in the movie.


What I meant Re: my link to her above Bio.


----------



## Stalker

Your answer has just overlapped mine, so I originally reffered to Leto.


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> Your answer has just overlapped mine, so I originally reffered to Leto.


Correct but I was first NAH NAH!! 

AHEM OK.. moving right along, LETO can decide who goes next, no major drama methinks..


----------



## Leto

quiet, pupils !  Gollum got it. A cookie for which is able to tell me what's the problem nowadays with this film and why ?


----------



## GOLLUM

HE HE... 

Actually I've got to go out for a little while so please if Stalker or someone else want's to have a go once they've received their Cookie from Leto of course.. 

Enjoy your day all!!!


----------



## Stalker

What offends Thai (Siamese) is exaggerating of her role at the court - she was a mere teacher and never - a royal governess. Her relationships with King Mongkut and his prince were also exaggerated.


----------



## Leto

Yep, and the book and movies are banned from Thaïland (although the Oriental hotel don't hesitate to make money on her name).


----------



## Stalker

All right, I guess I deserve a cookie. 

Well Gollum is leaving us to go to his cradle. It's late in Australia. So, anybody cares to ask the question?


----------



## Leto

Go ahead then. Chocolate or regular cookies ?


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> All right, I guess I deserve a cookie.
> 
> Well Gollum is leaving us to go to his cradle. It's late in Australia. So, anybody cares to ask the question?


What what did someone mention my name??.... 

Actually it's only 8 pm Saturday night, so I'm going out now to "talk" to some of the local bar gals.... 

Happy Dreams Ya'll... 

You have a go Stalker....


----------



## Stalker

Chocolate will do, thanks.
All right, give me a name of the king who was tatooed with a very strange for a monarch insctiption "Death to kings and tyrants". Why he had such an inscription?


----------



## Stalker

GOLLUM said:
			
		

> What what did someone mention my name??....
> 
> Actually it's only 8 pm Saturday night, so I'm going out now to "talk" to some of the local bar gals....
> 
> Happy Dreams Ya'll...
> 
> You have a go Stalker....


Good luck to you, pal!


----------



## Leto

Again ? Why so much interest for the Bonapartian era. It's of course Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte who had this sentence tattooed with a phrygian hat on his arm during his time in the Revolution army, and was later nominated King of Sweden.


----------



## GOLLUM

Stalker said:
			
		

> Good luck to you, pal!


I'll do my best..... 

Night nighty all! 

*Heads out front door.....*


----------



## Stalker

All right, Leto, you are completely right but you didn't give his dynastic name and that was the part of my question.

EDIT: Why so much interest? Well, partly because I love this period of history, partly because it delivered so many freaking interesting facts... 

All right even without that name you go anyway.


----------



## Leto

you mean Karl XIV ?


----------



## Stalker

Aha! You go!


----------



## Leto

Which battle was led by Polishs, Amerindians, along with Morrocans ?


----------



## Stalker

Hmm...You mean Poles and American Indians?


----------



## Stalker

That strange union of nations could happen only under US and British command, so I started to search the events of World Wars and to my amazing I found Polish Army and Indian division along with Moroccan and Algerian divisions participating in the famous Battle at MOnte Cassino on Gustaw's line in Italy in 1944. That was a fact I didn't know.


----------



## Leto

Right, Sir. Your turn...


----------



## Stalker

Sorry, guys, for being out of the I-net for so long. I didn't expect I would though.
My question: _they_ have alwys been a precious treasure of the Empire. No mortal inhabitant of the Empire could see and charish _them_ except the Emperor's family but _they_ were painted in multiple paintings, verses and poems were dedicated to _them,_ _they_ became a symbol of the Emperor's palace. 
But then war came and Barbarians invaded the Empire, the Emperor's army fought bravely but in vain - the Barbarians were better armed and they stormed the very heart of the Empire - *the Emperor's palace* - and only 5 of _them_ survived that storm. Barbarians took _them_ with them. Now many people in the world have _them_ and love _them_. 
Who or what are _they_?


----------



## nixie

Shot in the dark, but was it Siamese cats?


----------



## Stalker

Miss but *a very close one*. If you define what an Empire that was, what those Barbarians were, you will surely unwind the whole story! 

Good luck!


----------



## nixie

My first thougt was some sort of song bird,but then I remembered that only the royal family in Siam coud keep Siamese cats


----------



## nixie

Stalker can I have a little clue or do we have to wait for Leto to come back for the answer


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Guess.......Eagle?

(Roman Legions had eagle standards so that's the basis of my guess!)


----------



## Stalker

No, not eagles, WS. Miss again. 
What concerns a clue, Nixie... hmm... I may also mention that the Queen of Barbarians  also liked them. You were very close with your answer but you mentioned a wrong Empire and wrong... pets.


----------



## Leto

no cats then and no Siam too (which rule out white elephants). Is it an Extreme Asia Empire ?


----------



## Stalker

Well, you want me to narrow your search down to two or three countries, he-he? All right, since the answer took too long, I'll do it - my answer is *yes*.


----------



## nixie

Is it the dog breed Pekingese? General Dunne presented one to Queen Victoria and she named it Looty,who's potrait still hangs in Windsor Castle.


----------



## Stalker

Yes, that is the correct answer. During the Boxer war, the British troops attacked the Forbidden Palace in Beyjing and found 5 Pekingese whose servants killed themselves in the fear of those Western Barbarians  . The British officers took them away and thus this breed  named after its native city became famous all around the world.

Your turn to ask questions.


----------



## GOLLUM

Let's hope it's not as obscure as that last one...


----------



## Stalker

Sorry for being obscure then! 

But what is the point of asking dates and names when Google is always at your service? Interesting facts is the essence, in my opinion. In this case Google will also help but only in case you know what you are seeking. Do you disagree, my friend?


----------



## GOLLUM

On reflection you are correct...


----------



## Rosemary

Hi eveyone, thought I might join in here for a little while. 

Just an easy question to start with.  Who was the first English King to be christened and by whom?


----------



## lucifer_principle

Good King lucius,  by Rome.


----------



## Stalker

Yes, LP is right, good king of Britons Lucius accepted christianity in 170 AD (!), and this fact gives the UK the all reasons to say that Britain was the first of all nations to accept Christianity as its national religion. But then it was return to paganity on the large scale, so Armenia is the first state here that has had  consistent Christian history since 304 AD.


----------



## nixie

Hmm. I thought it was Ethelbert christened by St Augustine,but looks like I'm wrong as usual 

Who,s turn is it to ask a question ?


----------



## lucifer_principle

Pre WW1 Russia invaded Asia with battle ships. What stupid thing did the Russians do to make them loose the battle before it even began?


----------



## Stalker

If you speak of Russian fleet going from Baltic Seat to Tsushima straits under command of Admiral Rozhestvensky, the most stupid thing was loading cannon shells with damp explosives because some freak back in St. Petersbourg said it would be a proper thing in tropics. As the results, Even with artillery crews badly trained, Russian fleet pierce with holes the Japanese sheeps ander the command of Admiral Togo, and only one fifth of the shells exploded. But for that the result would ruther be a draw that complete defeat of the Russians. 
Tsushima still remains the most dreadful, shameful and painful defeat of Russian navy on sea.
It showed all stupidity and incompetence of the high command appointed by the Emperor Nicholas II, the cowardice and treason of Admiral Rozhestvensky, it also showed the heroism and proffessionalism of simple sailors and commanders and officers of some ships who died in honour but never to broke their oaths. One of them was my compatriot-kievite, Vladimir Miklukho-Maklai , the brother of the famous ethnographer Nicholas Miklukho-Maklai who commanded the old coastguard dreadnought "Admiral Ushakov" with good artillery but awfully slow and awkward. When the squad under the command of Vice-Admiral Nebogatov surrendered, all the officers of "Admiral Ushakov" treated that act as treason, and the old dreadnought continued fighting but then was sunk by two Japanese 1st class cruseirs "Yakumo" and "Iwate", Vladimir Miklukho-Maklai stayed on the bridge till the last sailor left the sinking ship, wounded, he helped the sailors to go to the boats and then jumped off the ship but could not fight for his survival and got drowned. That is the story. Soory that my answer took to long.


----------



## Stalker

My apologies for terrible spelling. Was in rush when wrote it! Due to some unclear  reasons cannot edit my previous post. Sorry.


----------



## lucifer_principle

What I was told in school was that the Russians went all around through southern Africa to get to Asia, and upon arrival they exhausted most of their supplies. Their journey was too well broadcasted, which made the Asians well prepared and defeated them. However we didn't have the short cut called strait of Jebralter then.


----------



## Rosemary

nixie said:
			
		

> Hmm. I thought it was Ethelbert christened by St Augustine,but looks like I'm wrong as usual QUOTE]
> 
> Well according to my copy of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles you are correct nixie.  His wife was a Frankish Christian when he married her, so that might have had something to do with his decision.


----------



## Stalker

lucifer_principle said:
			
		

> What I was told in school was that the Russians went all around through southern Africa to get to Asia, and upon arrival they exhausted most of their supplies. Their journey was too well broadcasted, which made the Asians well prepared and defeated them. However we didn't have the short cut called strait of Jebralter then.


Well, it's only a part of the truth but that was not silly Russians who decided so. The Channel of Suez had already been built by year 1905. The English and the French sympathised openly with the Japanese - it were them who informed the world of each movement of the Russial Fleet. It was them who forbade the whole fleet from passing Suez save for the 1st cruiser squadrone under the command of Rear-admiral Enquist consisting of heavy cruisers "Oleg" as a flagship, "Aurora", "Dmitry Donskoy" and "Vladimir Monomach". The British and French consulates in Asia informed secretely the Japanese of all plans of the Russians they were able to get. They were afraid of Russia's srengthening its positions in Far East because they wanted by the hands of Japan to remove Russian Empire from such a sweet piece of cake as China. Typical colonialism! 
Supplies... It's surprising but Germany was the only devoted and reliable Russia's ally in Europe while all the rest openly or quietly gloated over Russia's misfortunes. German governors in all German colonies in Africa got orders from Berlin to supply Russian ships with all necessary, especially by coal for steam engines, and so they did.
So, when it concerns Russia, Western history textbooks still remain biased beyond all limits. All keep on crying out how bad Russia was, and I should admit that they are right on many points but the same people who write histopries always forget how many good things Russia did for Europe and all other nations, how many great people _She_ gave to the world. 
So, really, _*there were three stupid things Russians did in naval affairs*_ in Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905:
1) Damp explosives (but for them, Japanese would have lost over half of their ships - Saying it once again: only each 5th shell got exploded when hit target);
2) Appointment of mainly incompetent command due to court intrigues in St. Petersburg;
3) The should have separated newly built fast and powerful dreadnoughts of "Borodino" class and heavy cruisers of the "(Athena) Pallas" and "Zhemchug" (Pearl) classes from out of date slow and weak coastal guard dreadnoughts and line battleships of "Peresvet" class that only slowed the whole fleet and appeared very vulnerable to enemy fire in the battle. So, the new ships could make it several months faster to Port-Arthur to lift the siedge to cut Japanese communications and eventually, to win the war.
Japan was a young and agressive imperialist, and it dug its teeth into the arse of an aged Russian elephant with all eagerness and effort but it could not support its military effort for too long. And Russia could but for the first Revolution. In terms of simple economics.

*Now, here is my question:*
I always sought in history at least a single example when native Americans managed to protect their lands from the Spanish conquistadors. And, you know, I managed... That war lasted about 2 hundred years and Spaniards were forced to withdraw. So, name me the only native Indian independent kingdom (state) that even had the ambassadors in Madrid and Paris and was on geographic maps untill the 2nd half of 19th century, and the reason of its collaps was simply a fraud.
Good luck!


----------



## Leto

Hawaii ?


----------



## Stalker

Well, Sandwich Islands (Hawaii) is and interesting option but if you read my question once more you will fing my reference to Indian (American) nation... And the fraud was the French - one more hint.


----------



## Leto

Think I'll pass, else if I'm right I'll ended up cursing and muttering about bad administration....


----------



## Stalker

C'mon guys, the question is pretty easy! Do you need more hints?


----------



## nixie

Complete shot in dark,can't be bothered googling but is Canda or USA,if it's Canda I will say Quebec.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Hopi tribe in Florida? 
Complete guess. 
American history doesn't seem to focus much on the Indian Wars....wonder why?....


----------



## Leto

Guys and gals, it involves Spanish so don't got too north in your answers. 
*still mumbling from past incompetence.*


----------



## Stalker

Sorry but no, not even Hopi in Arizona, neither Seminols in Florida. They didn't manage to form their national states and they were not recognized by any European states. Quebeqoise are the successors of French settlers in Canada, and, sadly, we are not speaking of Iroqois Indians here.
The story I am telling is a little bit controversive but it concerns *South American Indians* who fought against Spanish conquistadors and won their independence. In the beginning of 19th century they even formed a national state with all its attributes (flag, army, capital city etc.) and that state was recognised by some European states as independent one. Unfortunately, in the second half of 19th century it ceased to exist due to certain reasons I mentioned in my previous posts.


----------



## Stalker

Remember _The Children of Captain Grant_ by Jules Verne


----------



## Stalker

OK. The expectation is getting more and more unbearable. 
Nobody cares to answer with all hints given?  All right, I am ceding the right to pose the next question to anybody luckier than me.


----------



## lucifer_principle

The seminoles? ...C'mon


----------



## nixie

Patagonia?


----------



## Stalker

I'll accept Patagonia as an answer although it's not complete. The nation is Araucans inhabiting now Chile and Argentina. 
*The Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia* founded in 1860 by the Mapuche Indians in territory now occupied by the Republics of Chile and Argentina. Orelie-Antoine de Tounens, a French lawyer living in Araucania, was elected by the Mapuche to be the first King of Araucania and Patagonia. In 1862, King Orelie-Antoine was kidnapped by Chilean soldiers and deported to France. He mounted three expeditions to reclaim his throne and rally the Mapuche against the Republic of Chile, which was invading and colonizing Mapuche lands. In 1878, King Orelie-Antoine died in Tourtoirac, France.
The above Kingdom was the result of war of independence of part of Araucans (mapuche) against Spanish conquistadors. Let'me paraphrase the ending of "Braveheart":  They faught like warriors and poets, they faught like Mapuche and they won their freedom!" 
But finally, in 1870s the independent Chile in military operation put the end to the Kingdom of Araucans.


----------



## Stalker

Your turn, Nixie!


----------



## nixie

In 1549 this man led a peasants revolution against enclosures.


----------



## Leto

Robert Kett.


----------



## nixie

Your turn Leto


----------



## Leto

Simple, when and where Superman appeared for the first time ?


----------



## Quokka

Is it Action Comics (1938) volume one i think...

simpsons trivia: thats the cover you see Krusty using to light his cigar in the episode he goes bankrupt


----------



## Leto

Nope, that's the easy answer but the wrong one.


----------



## Quokka

Hey your right, but i googled it so i'll keep my mouth shut


----------



## Leto

To google the answer is also a method, so give it.


----------



## Quokka

Fair enough, take 2: is it _Reign of the Superman _(Herbert s. Fine, 1933)?

Which has The man of steel turning evil by a villian that does indeed sound like the basis for the later Lex Luther


----------



## Leto

Good, your turn.


----------



## Quokka

Ok, I was here 1000 years before stonehenge and am 500 years older than the pyrimids (though I'm sure thats arguable  ). The winter solstice is important to me but now days you'll need to win the lottery to share it with me. What am I?

btw nice question on The Man, enjoying reading  _Reign of the superman at sperman.ws_


----------



## Stalker

Sphynx?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Easter Island statues?


----------



## Quokka

No, though it is a stone structure and the lottery you win won't bring you money


----------



## Stalker

The winter solstice... hmm. Proceeding from this point I may localise the object's location in the Northern hemisphere. It's built of stone/rocks, it's rather an megalitic astronomic observation facility or a calendary. Winning the lottery means that the object is difficult of access. Does it depend on the region where it's situated? Could you, please, give me that hint?


----------



## Leto

Newgrange ?
http://www.knowth.com/newgrange.htm


----------



## Quokka

Thats the one Leto, well worth a visit if your ever in Ireland.


----------



## Leto

ever is the key, it's been 8 years now I'm waiting for holiday there.
*growls about men incapacity to keep their promises*
Now for a pic question, who's that guy ? :





Do not try to quote this post.


----------



## Stalker

Oh, Leto, you were just one step before me! 
Look forward to your question.


----------



## Leto

Just above your post.


----------



## Stalker

All right, lady, you want to China?

That's Marco Polo.


----------



## Leto

Right, I'd crave for dim sun. Your turn.


----------



## Stalker

Give me the expectation period/term to which an Ancient Roman usually referred when he meant that the event was never going to happen!


----------



## Leto

Must I answer ? We still use it in French slang (but not in latin).


----------



## Stalker

I know that you know but that is a game. Use the loan translation (English) or Latin, doesn't matter. Bonus points for both.  

BTW, didn't know it's still in  use in French although French is based on Latin Populaire.


----------



## Leto

OK, I've summoned up my very loosy latin knowledge to translate back to "grecquae calendae" The Calenda were the start of Roman month and had no equivalent in Greek.

The French is "Calendes grecques".


----------



## Stalker

To Greek Calendas it is. Your turn, milady!


----------



## Leto

A tricky one : who invented football (the real one, not the NFL version) ?


----------



## Quokka

Isn't it a mix of gaelic football and rugby, when the settlers got to Australia.... ahh you mean soccer... sorry couldn't help myself.  Ok this is arguable I've always thought it was south american but ive heard scotland, greek and other ideas but I'll go for China?


----------



## Stalker

So, first we need to specify a question because it's really tricky. Do we speak of modern field (European) football (soccer) as we now know it with its basic rules forbidding use of arms and hands, or we just speak of general ball game from which football directly derives?


----------



## Leto

general ball game which through many travellers lead to European soccer.


----------



## Monty Scott

Are you referring to the Mayan Game, or the North American Indian game?


----------



## Stalker

Aztec (maybe, Mayan) game was called tlachco or tlachtli and posessed a ritual character. But it rather looked like a basketball. Ball games were known in Greece and Rome, in China and India. Still having a hard time trying to determine. Tricky question, tricky, Leto, and I am afraid, there's no a firm answer to it, or is it?


----------



## Monty Scott

I know which game you refer to, where the losing team literally lost their heads. There is a North American Indian game where they kicked and threw the ball (made from a stuffed leather bag). I cannot remember the name.


----------



## Leto

Stalker said:
			
		

> Aztec (maybe, Mayan) game was called tlachco or tlachtli and posessed a ritual character. But it rather looked like a basketball. Ball games were known in Greece and Rome, in China and India. Still having a hard time trying to determine. Tricky question, tricky, Leto, and I am afraid, there's no a firm answer to it, or is it?


Although Aztec and Mayan had a similar game (Northen inidans too ? A cookie for you Monty, I didn't know this one.), they couldn't pass it to Europe and Asian on time. Christobal Colomb discover Americas in 1492, and the viking if proven where in north America only in the 800. So, which one would you choose Stalker as the first country ?


----------



## Stalker

All right, if Leif Ericsson and Torfinn Carlsefne and Christopher Colomb (Christobal Colon) after them were unable to introduce Indian ball game in Europe in time. Let's get Rome for the starter. But asking "who invented" you probably meant a particular person?


----------



## Leto

Nope, who as in "Chinese invented fire powder" or "Arabs invented algebre".
And I'm afraid for one Rome is not the starter.


----------



## Monty Scott

Then it had to be the Celts!! What do I win?


----------



## Stalker

Monty Scott said:
			
		

> I know which game you refer to, where the losing team literally lost their heads. There is a North American Indian game where they kicked and threw the ball (made from a stuffed leather bag). I cannot remember the name.


They rather literally lost their hearts.


----------



## Leto

Monty Scott said:
			
		

> Then it had to be the Celts!! What do I win?


Sorry, not the Celts.


----------



## Stalker

I found that the Chinese played "football" games at least 3000 years ago. One of its later varieties was called T'su Chu.


----------



## Leto

Good job, your turn.


----------



## Stalker

Pretty easy... Just for training.

Find in history Little Boot and Little Dragon.


----------



## Leto

Caligula and Vlad Tepes ?


----------



## Stalker

Excellent, Leto! Was easy, wasn't it? Both bloody bastards! Vlad Tepes (The Empaler) or Dracula! Once, they say, the large Turkish force surrendered to him and he ordered that all prisoners (20,000) be empaled!!!


----------



## Leto

Perfect question for a monday morning before my second coffee. Ok so let's stick to Roman history, and tell me which legal procedure was done with a dish on hand and wearing only the Roman equivalent of boxers ?


----------



## Stalker

A trial?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

I'll have a guess at weddings


----------



## Leto

Not at all.


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

D'you mean boxers as in the underwear, or boxers as in people who hit each other for sport and profit? 


Either way, I'm not at all certain what this is, but I'm intrigued.


----------



## Leto

boxers as in the underwear. One hint, it's a criminal procedure and it's the victim who wear boxers and a plate/dish (translation fuzzy here sorry).


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

Does it have something to do with testimony?


----------



## Leto

Nope, it's before going to the court.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Selling them as slaves?


----------



## Leto

No.


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

Registering the initial complaint?


----------



## Leto

No, once the complaint has been registered (if it was done this way in Rome, which I'm not sure), and before the court. And it's specific to one type of crime/offense.


----------



## Quokka

Hey Leto my first on the football question was Chinese


----------



## Stalker

So, as far as I know, Roman court hardly distinguished between rules of procedure in civil and criminal cases. Nontheless, I risk supposing it was criminal procedure related to "raptus", taking something with violence. "Rape" derives from this root but at that time the word didn't necessary mean sexual violence.


----------



## Leto

Sorry my bad, add your question then, Quokka. Cookie ?

No rape involved, Stalker.


----------



## Stalker

But your question, Leto, still remains unanswered. What shall we do then?


----------



## Leto

Answer both ?


----------



## Stalker

All right, then, while expecting Quokka's question, may I kindly ask you if my last answer hit the target any close, Leto?


----------



## Leto

Told you last page that the procedure wasn't related to rape.


----------



## Quokka

Its no stress, we can just continue  mainly just curious if you missed it or if you thought I had been too vague with just china. for my guess how about giving the accussed a chance to wash and appear clean infront of the court??


----------



## Stalker

It's extremely hard to find something of which you don't even have a clue. Such an outlook and behaviour of a victim should mean something... Still...
So, I start simly shooting into darkness.
The victim of burglary.


----------



## Leto

Please specify what the victim is supposed to do in this attire ?


----------



## Quokka

Was it a form of being sworn in?



and Leto, just to confirm, it's the victim not the perpetrator/accussed who does this?


----------



## Leto

It's the victim.


----------



## Stalker

Who knows? To show that he/she was robbed of the last tunic and now he/she is ready to go off to street as a beggar with the crater/plate/dish for coins to be thrown there.


----------



## Leto

Nope. Try again. You're robbed, what would you do ?


----------



## Quokka

Throw the plate discus-style at the robber?

Ok one last stab in the dark tonight, how about testing how much could be held/balanced on the plate for consideration later with compensation?


----------



## Leto

Nope. sorry.


----------



## Stalker

According to Roman law, the praetor gives me the right to do whatever investigation to support my accusation. According to that law, if I fail to support my accusation, I will face a hard liability. Well, another supposition is that to show that I spent my last money in order to carry out my investigation to support my accusations or just in attempt to find the burglar if I don't know the offendor pesonally.


----------



## Leto

You're very close but not exactly. One more guess or shall I give the answer and we move on with Quokka's question ?


----------



## Stalker

It suddenly appeared a hard question for me. All right, I give up, Leto. Really, if we don't have time... You may reserve the question for the better time, or tell us the answer. But in doing so we may create the precedent.  
Let Quokka ask the question.
It's a pity to be that close but I simply cannot make another guess.


----------



## Leto

Well when some Roman citizen were robbed and suspected someone to be the robber, he could investigate suspect property to find his good only if he had a plate on hand and wear nothing but his underwear : Quaestio lance et licio. The search could also be done by an officer, but in the same attire.

It's one of the oldest law in Roma, and now nobody can explain why this special attire.


----------



## Stalker

Yep. Now it is my turn to rub my head and mutter: "How didn't it occur to me?" As it often happens, when once revealed, the answer looks clear and logical. Thanks, Leto! However hard, it was a good question.  
So, now it's Quokka's turn, as I presume?


----------



## Quokka

Ok, not sure if this isn't a little off topic for a history quiz and it also may seem a little vague, just trying to make it a little harder to google.  

Discovered in 2004 it's name translated into english would not be out of place as the title for a fantasy book, what is it and why is it particularly interesting/ important?


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

Wearing just underwear was probably to ensure the victim doesn't in turn steal from the accused's posessions by slipping things into the more voluminous folds of a toga - wonder what the plate was about!No idea on the 2004 discovery. I think I'll hang around this thread though - all manner of vague and obscure trivia to be picked up.


----------



## Stalker

Still seems too vague. Any clue? Is it an archaelogical discovery?


----------



## Quokka

Yes.


----------



## Stalker

You might be speaking of excavations in Vatican that seems to confirm that the St. Peter's tomb is really in Vatican Hill. But what confuses me is the name for the fantasy book.


----------



## Leto

Or the "discover" of Atlantis remains (Minoan remains) near Crete ?

Too bad Esioul is not around, she would have known the answer...


----------



## Quokka

Hint: think much, much, much older.


----------



## Quokka

Sorry I'm wrong its not archaelogical but paleontology


----------



## Stalker

Is this discovery anyhow related to space?


----------



## Quokka

No, if you think about the hint i said with its translated name and search using that it should pop up fairly easily


----------



## Stalker

Seems I know what you are talking about! That's *Homo Hobbitus*! 

Not exactly breaking news at this moment, but something I'd very much like to read more about - in print, say, a full _National Geographic_ special - so I'll blog it for future reference:

Dwarf Human Ancestor Lived on Pacific Island. Known also as _Homo_ florensiensis. They were only about 1 meter tall with a grapefruit-sized but apparently quite efficient brain. According to this Guardian article, they may have existed even later than the already staggeringly recent 18,000 years ago that the fossils have been dated at. That sounds more than a bit fanciful to me, but you never know.


----------



## Quokka

ahh the hobbit and the giant (evolutionary pressure resulting in 7ft hominids, cant remember its name) i had forgotten about them, read an interesting feature about them in New Scientist but he is not the one in my question think mythical beasts (name wise)


----------



## Stalker

http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1075088083970_2004/01/28/240dragon,0.jpg*A dragon?*
January 29, 2004

A pickled "dragon" that looks as if it might once have flown around Harry Potter's Hogwarts has been found in a garage in Oxfordshire, England.
The baby dragon, in a sealed jar, was discovered with a metal tin containing paperwork in old-fashioned German of the 1890s...
Find the full article here http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/28/1075088090949.html?from=top5&oneclick=true


----------



## Stalker

_



_
*Here's another piece that seems to fit all your criteria. So, its importance is that the fossils found make perfect link between dinosaurs and the birds.*
_Mei long_, which means "soundly sleeping dragon" in Chinese, is the newest of several recent dinosaur fossil discoveries in northern China. The fossil suggests that the dinosaur slept in a position similar to that of modern-day birds, paleontologists say. 

_Photograph and illustration courtesy Mick Ellison/AMNH_​


----------



## Quokka

Mei Long or "soundly sleeping dragon" was it, as well as the bird/dinosaur link it is also important because it is one of the VERY few fossils that gives indication of behaviour (I think there is also one where the dinosaur is nesting on eggs).


----------



## Stalker

Well, here is my question. Want also to warn you that even I (asking the question) may not know the full answer completely, so the victor will be the preson who gives the fullest possible answer. 
The reason why I ask this question is pretty clear: it makes the link between the fantasy and the history and this what I find extremely intriguing.
So, my question concerns the Videssian cycle by Harry Turtledove. 
Did Turtledove use real historical toponims and names of nations (tribes) in his Videssian cycle? If so, name it/them.
To help you remember the geography of Videssian world, her's the link to the map: http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/videssos.jpg
Good luck to all of you in your search!


----------



## Stalker

Has noone read the Chronicles of the Lost Legion? The Crispos? Or the Stolen Throne?
All right! Give one toponim at the time and then all you are to do is count points you've earned. To make the game more democratic, I also suggest that you not only find real names of places and nation but also give any historical parallels with toponims and nations, and countries Turtledove depicted in his Videssian cycle.
Videssos is no doubt a Bizantium. Go on, please...


----------



## Stalker

Is anybody going to answer this question or should I replace it?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

sorry dude - I haven't got a clue what a toponim is and I've never read Turtledove's Videssos cycle so you got me coming & going


----------



## Stalker

Toponim or, correctly, toponym is a name of geographic place on the map.
All right, forget my previous question!
Easy one: who was the Red Baron?


----------



## lazygun

Manfred von Richthofen was born the son of Major Albrecht von Richthofen, a Prussian nobleman, and his wife, Kunigunde. (The name _Richthofen_ means "court of judgement" and was bestowed by the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I.) Manfred was the eldest of three sons (the eldest child was his sister, Ilse). He was enrolled at age 11 at the military school at Wahlstatt, and then attended the Royal Military Academy at Lichterfelde. Manfred was a far better athlete than he was a scholar, and applied his horseback riding skills to become a cavalry officer. He was commissined in April, 1911 in the 1st Regiment of Uhlans Kaiser Alexander III. He was promoted to Leutnant in 1912. This Red Baron?.....


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

I think it's a given that you're correct Lazygun - feel free to post your own question


----------



## Stalker

Of course, that's him, and I surely did not refer to Michael Schumacher . Your turn, lazygun!


----------



## lazygun

Who was reputed to have said,"Give me a place to stand and with a lever I will move the whole world."?


----------



## Quokka

Archimedes


----------



## Quokka

I'm almost sure I'm right with that one so I'll post the next question.

What is the significance of the costum below?


----------



## Stalker

That's a doctor (16th-17th cent.) in the suit presumably preserving him from the plague or smallpox. Oh, those terrible times when plague together with smallpox wiped out 3/4 of Europe's population.


----------



## Quokka

That it is, the closest thing they had to a bio hazard suit. The beak would be filled with vinegar, sweet oils and other smelling compounds both out of beliefs it would help combat contagion and also to simply fight the smell.


Your up Stalker.


----------



## Stalker

Bringing a little bit of mysticism...
What relationship *may* exist between the battle of Tippecanoe in 1811 and the attempt at assassination of Ronald Reagan in 1980?


----------



## Stalker

A hint: start with gen. William H. Harrison who was then elected to the office in 1840.
What I want from you is to find a sequence initiated by the events of 1811 that firstly affected Harrison and then struck Ronald Reagan. The sequence is real but its explanation may lie only in mystical field. BTW, many researches and books were written on the topic. 
C'mon, guys, you have google at least. Just formulate correct questions and you'll get at least the part of the answer.


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

The only thing I can find is that the were both the oldest person to be elected President?
William H. Howard first, then Ronald Reagan took his 'record'


----------



## finvarre

Wow, I found it! Google can be very helpful, at times 

*Tecumseh's Curse*

After the historical battle of Tippecanoe in 1811, legend has it that the Shawnee Indian Chief, Tecumseh, sent General William Henry Harrison, via released prisoners, a message. a prophecy that history justifiably labeled, 'Tecumseh's Curse':
"'Harrison will not win this year to be the Great Chief. But he may win next year. If he does...He will not finish his term. He will die in his office.' 'No president has ever died in office,' declared a visitor. 'But Harrison will die I tell you. And when he dies you will remember my brother Tecumseh's death. You think that I have lost my powers. I who caused the sun to darken and Red Men to give up firewater. But I tell you Harrison will die. And after him, every Great Chief chosen every 20 years thereafter will die. And when each one dies, let everyone remember the death of our people.'" 
In 1840, the sinister presidential death cycle foretold by Shawnee Chief, Tecumseh, began and every sitting President elected in a year ending in zero died in office, except for President Ronald Reagan who luckily survived, but still endured a serious assassination attempt. 
An equally auspicious correlation is the 20-year Jupiter-Saturn cycle in earth signs, occurring in an air sign in 1980 and attributed to President Reagan's assassination escape.
Four Presidents died as victims of assassination, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley and Kennedy.. plus there was a major attempt on Reagan's life. That's five of the eight Presidents elected in 'zero years.' 
There really is a mystic feel to your question, grant you that, Stalker 

And as for your Videssos questions - Makuran was undoubtedly Persia, with the King of Kings... in Guy Gavriel Kay's duology, The Sarantine Mosaic, there is a similar situation - Sarantium (Byzanthium), always opposed to its rival country, Bassania.
Because you asked, I've also found out that Kubrat's name derived from the person of Khan Kubrat who unified politically all Bulgarians in the year 632, the date that marks the foundation of the Great Bulgaria. 

Khan Kubrat {or Kurt, or Kuvrat} was born around 585-587 AD
He was of the Dulo {or Dub, or Dubo} clan, from the Unogondurs tribe of Bulgars.

Here comes my question , a little too easy, but anyway... What was the name of the king who married Eleanor of Aquitaine's daughter and fell in love with Rachel?


----------



## Stalker

Excellent job, finvarre!  
But I would call it Tenskwathawa's (Tekumseh's brother)curse but it doesn't really matter. 
Some researchers think that all zero year presidents were somehow assissinated.
So, add to this list.
Harrison (1840) poisoned
Harding (1920) poisoned
FDR (1940) poisoned

Thanks for your useful amendment pertaining to Videssos.
Concerning Videssos:
Calavria - Sicily with Normandic rule
Vaspurakan - real historical name of the richest province of Armenia
Vaspurs are undoubtly Armenians
Yezds real tribal union in the north of Iran (somewhere I heard that they had the faction preaching Satan)
Halogaland - place in Norway
Turtledove even put the Mesopotamian region to his map. He substituted Tigris to Tibr but nonetheless...
Your turn.
Jak sprawy u Warszawie?


----------



## finvarre

Sprawy u nas OK, and how about you there, neighbour ? *Damn, I didn't realise there'd be so many people here speaking Polish, there's two of you already and probably more  that's cool * As for my simple question - look at the post above yours. Next time I'll try to think of something more demanding


----------



## finvarre

OK, well, I see it isn't that easy so maybe I should have written Raquel instead of Rachel or maybe even judia de Toledo, but that would give far too much away, so I've decided to ask another question .

  Name three fantasy books/cycles written by different authors that take place in a world the creation of which was based on one of the Eastern (Asian) countries. If you can, choose 3 different coutries, OK?
  Easy enough, I suppose, and then maybe I'll get to know new titles.


----------



## GOLLUM

HMMM.. that's a reasonable challenging query, let's se how I go.

*Tales of The Otori * trilogy by Lian Hearn set in *feudal Japan * it has many of the traditional elements of that period with a fantasy element in it. Book 1 is Across the Nightingale Floor, very good book I recommend finvarre!

This series is probably more sci fi than fantasy but it is set in a future 23rd Century where *Chinese Kings * rule (maybe not so far away economically perhaps..). It is a series called *Chung Kuo * by author *David Wniogrove*. Books are as follows, haven't read all of these but didn't mind what I did read.

The Middle Kingdom (1989) 
The Broken Wheel (1990) 
The White Mountain (1991) 
The Stone Within (1992) 
Beneath the Tree of Heaven (1993) 
White Moon, Red Dragon (1994) 
Days of Bitter Strength (1995) 
The Marriage of the Living Dark (1997)

The *3rd series * I'll mention is *Sean Russell's 2 books * The *Initiate Brother * and *Gatherer of Clouds * set in an asian like world. This is the same Sean Russell of the current Swan's War trilogy fame that I'm enjoying reading.

Of course there's plenty of original stories in Asia set in their rich mytholgy but I assumed you were perhpas more after modern Western interpretations.... 

You have another go finvarre or someone else, I prefer answering than posing questions..


----------



## finvarre

Thanks, Gollum! Now I'll have to think of another question... or maybe someone else could try to think of yet another three books? or maybe two this time, I don't have a ready question in mind, will have to think about it  later.
 Though you have mentioned 2 out of 3 cycles I had in mind... I've forgotten about Wingrove, I have read only the first volume and that quite a long time ago but it was pretty interesting really
  I enjoyed Lian Hearn too... though again I've only read the first volume, I'm waiting for the next ones to come out in polish. And I liked Sean Russell's duology too.


----------



## GOLLUM

finvarre said:
			
		

> Thanks, Gollum! Now I'll have to think of another question... or maybe someone else could try to think of yet another three books? or maybe two this time, I don't have a ready question in mind, will have to think about it  later.
> Though you have mentioned 2 out of 3 cycles I had in mind... I've forgotten about Wingrove, I have read only the first volume and that quite a long time ago but it was pretty interesting really
> I enjoyed Lian Hearn too... though again I've only read the first volume, I'm waiting for the next ones to come out in polish. And I liked Sean Russell's duology too.


So what was the other cycle you were thinking of???...


----------



## finvarre

Nothing new for you, alas ! The Daughter/Servant/ Mistress of the Empire by Raymond Feist&Janny Wurts, based on the Korean culture. I assumed Sean Russell based his story on the Chinese one, so together with Hearn you'd have 3 countries altogether


----------



## Stalker

finvarre said:
			
		

> Sprawy u nas OK, and how about you there, neighbour ? *Damn, I didn't realise there'd be so many people here speaking Polish, there's two of you already and probably more that's cool * As for my simple question - look at the post above yours. Next time I'll try to think of something more demanding


Well, revolutionary euphory has gone away and now it's hangover! Not that I speak Polish good, naighbour, but the language is so close that I understand everything but can say little. Simply had no practice. Had always dreamt to visit Krakow. Next spring, maybe...
Notwithstanding your calling off the first question, I'll try to answer it: Eleonore of Aquitaine was married twice: first time to Louis VII of France, the second time - to Henry II Plantagenet who after years of maried love with her could not bear such a clever woman in his surrounding, locked her off in the French castle and fell in love with ... seems it was Rachel.


----------



## finvarre

The same in here... except for the revolution And I've never been to Ukraine . Yeah, I guessed you didn't speak polish well, but it was just nice. Suppose I could understand you speaking ukranian as well, it's usually the case with people from the Chech Republic and Slovakia, at least. Unfortunately,I don't know any word - the alphabet doesn't help!

As for my previous question, the answer was Alfonso VIII of Spain. The question was who married Eleanor of Aquitaine's daughter (that was Leonor) and fell in love with Rachel - Rachel was a Jew from Toledo, it's just a legend, really... But thanks, anyway. I don't know the name of the woman Henry Plantagenet fell in love with once he's discarded Eleanor, but probably you're right .

So here's my new question: Name three fiction books in that at least part of the action takes place in Atlantis, and write where it was located geographically in these cases (not necessarily exactly where, just name the nearest land, i.e. Britain.


----------



## Stalker

Aha, interesting. Was a little inattentive when read your question.
The first fiction book that comes to mind is one read long ago that was written by the Romanian (?) sci-fi author Victor Kernbach entitled The Boat Over Atlantis. Tells the story of humanoid ETs visiting Atlantis and the Cataclism that followed as the result of the nuclear explosion in the crater of a huge Volcano in the center of that land. The story also re-narrates some Biblical stories and particularly, the destruction of Sodom and Homorra. The Atlantis is set in presumably Plato's location in Atlantics in front of Gibraltar.
The other novel by Alexander Belyayev The Last Man of Atlantis. The location is the same.
Well, the last one is stands a little bit aside - that is Maracot Deep by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The underwater expedition by Professor Maracot finds the remnants of Atlantis in the oceanis depths... The location is approximately the same even here.
The other fiction novels... well, may refer to the other locations: Thera (Santorini) and Minoan civilisation, Troy (Ilion) etc...


----------



## finvarre

Splendid! 
Well, I could mention as well "Stonehenge. Where Atlantis died" by Harry Harrison&leon Stover, the location is Thera, Lyonesse by Jack Vance - more a fairy tale, really, but presuably taking place on Atlantis near Britain, and the third one could be ie. Taliesin by Stephen Lawhead - I haven't read that one, but many of the Arthurian tales mention Atlantis and I'm told this one does, too. The location as above. I think your choice was more historical, however . 

Your turn.


----------



## GOLLUM

I'd also like to add *Jules Verne's * *Journey To The Centre Of The Earth * where the adventurers locate the lost city of Atlantis close to the earth's magnetic core.


----------



## Stalker

She descended from a rich and noble family but she always wanted power. So in order to realise her dream, she got married consequently to two pretenders to the throne both claiming to be the same crownprince who was considered to be killed long ago. The first of the fake princes used the foreign army to take the throne, the other - the army of thieves, so he hemself was called a thief. They also were killed savagely one by one. In her attempts to become the Queen, she ended seeing her son, "thiefling", executed and then died in the prison.
Who was she? What was the name of the crownprince whose name  the impostors used? What was the historical background of all these events?


----------



## finvarre

Really, that was pretty easy for me, thanks  She was Polish, her name was Maryna Mniszech, her father was the voievoda Jerzy Mniszech, and the pretender to the throne was the false Dymitr (Dmitri no. I&II, pretending to be the long lost son of the deceased tsar of Russia, Ivan the Terrible. In 1605, the first invasion of Russia by the first Dmitri and the Mniszechs in command of the Polish army (or rather polish gentry, as it was officially a private excursion) took place. They put an end to the former boyar Borys Godunov's rule as a tsar and they occupied Moscow for several months. After that, Dymitr was killed and Maryna imprisoned, and the army had no choice but to withdraw under the vicious attack of the boyars. Vasilij Szujski began his rule as a tsar. However, not long after these events, Maryna miraculously 'recognised' her husband somewhere back in Poland. That was the second false Dmitri. The second usurper to the throne wasn't nearly that succesful and didn't manage to take Moscow. He died trying to do so in 1610. That left Maryna Mniszech a widow, but fortunately she was pregnant, and so her father, Jerzy Mniszech, fought further for her son, Ivan Dmitrievich. This led them all to a tragedy 3 years later, as Michail Romanov was elected by the boyars and thus established the well-known (and for Poland rather tragic) line of the Romanovs on the Russian throne. The child was killed and Maryna died imprisoned in Russia.


----------



## Stalker

Yes, you are absolutely correct and that's Maryna Mniszech, the daughter of voievoda Yuri (Yerzy) Mniszech.  

Some more details that may seem useful and interesting because all that story is full of mystical signs. In 1605 the Polish army with Ukrainian cossack regiment under command of hetman Petro Sagaydachny took Moscow and shortly after that Maryna got married to False-Dmitry I (LzheDmitry I). She had been the Queen only for one week until Vassily Shuysky's conspiracy resulted in successful revolt and murder of the faked czar whose real name was Grigory Otrepyev. Some historical evidence say that Otrepyev really believed he was Dmitry, he was made to believe in that during the long course of his secret education by Vassily's spies. For example, if the last Vassily's conspiracy succeded, the previous one failed and the Duma sentenced him to quartering but False-Dmitry I pardoned him. It not only says he was merciful it also says he believed he was Dmitry, the impostor would have quickly got rid of Vassily. Pardon was a royal jesture. The historians say whatever Dmitry did, he did in full confidence he had absolute right to do that. Again, the way real King or Czar acts. Etc.
The name of "The Thief of Tushino" was Matvei (Mathew) Verevkin.
Romanovs dinasty was unfortunate both for Poland and Ukraine. If the Seim was far-sighted enough to equalise the Ukrainian nobility with Polish and Lithuanian nobility, it would have never been Khmelnitsky's uprisal, and the latter would be one of the most devoted soldier of the King. Supported by the Ukrainian elite, *Recz* *Pospolita *might have become one of the most powerful European states and Moscovia would have never become Russia as we know it now - but here I would suggest that we move our historical speculations to the other thread "Alternate history scenarios" http://www.chronicles-network.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5702.
And the last, the grim historical irony - Mikhail Romanov came to be elected the czar from *Ipatyevsky* Monastery, the Romanovs dinasty was beastly murdered by Bolshevicks in *Ipatyevsky* House in Yekaterinburg.

Your turn, finvarre!


----------



## finvarre

All right, then... I won't pursue the matter here, although I do agree about what you said about Chmielnitzky (sorry, I have no idea how to spell his name!) and his uprising, it was the great historical mistake of our sejm (congress? ) not to grant the same liberties to all three nations, therefore creating Rzeczpospolita of 3 nations... but well.

Here comes my next question: he was one of the most complex and misunderstood men of his age (well, depends on the interpretation). While serving as vice president, he fought a duel with his political and personal enemy and killed him. 3 years afterwards, he was arrested, tried, and acquitted of treason . He died nearly 30 years after that. Whom do I have in mind and when did he serve his term as a vice president?


----------



## Stalker

I guess you meant Vice-president Aaron Burr who killed the Secretary of Treasury Alexander Hamilton (10 bucks note) on the duel in 1804. BTW, there is a serious evidence that A. Hamilton might have colaborated secretly with the British during the War of Independence of the USA.


----------



## finvarre

Well done! Proceed with your question 

BTW, I haven't heard of the rumour concerning Alexander Hamilton, sounds interesting though hardly believable...


----------



## Stalker

Easy one. 
God's Wind helped them to protect their lands from the terrible invaders but didn't help them against the other even more terrible invaders 500-some years later.
Tell me the story in more details...


----------



## finvarre

Sorry, I don't have the faintest idea , except that I googled something about the Japans blessing the God's Wind for saving them from the Mongolian invasion in ca. 1275 if I remember correctly, but you can't possibly have referred to this. It seems that I do prefer your more difficult questions, Stalker . Hope someone could answer this !


----------



## Stalker

That's the right answer but only the part of it! You are on the right way, finvarre. Tell me about what happened 550 after that! And why the God's Wind didn't help them this time!


----------



## finvarre

OK, glad to hear that . This 'even more terrible' invasion happened in the last years of the Tokugawa shogunate and actually brought about its downfall. The God's wind couldn't help against a fleet of American steamships dispatched under Commodore Matthew Perry that steamed into what is now called Tokyo Bay in 1853. These ships moved up the bay against the wind. Under the circumstances, Japan had no choice but to sign a treaty with the United States, permitting trade and opening their ports. After that, they were forced to sign similar treaties with the British, Russians and Dutch. It was called the "unequal treaty" and it threw the entire country into turmoil by the sudden collapse of the policy of isolation it had maintained from the beginning of the XVII century.


----------



## Stalker

Well, the start of the Meiji Era and the end of Tokugawa's shogunate (Keiki) is one of the most crucial points of the history of Japan. But seek in later period. If you translate God's wind to Japanese () you will understand all at once.


----------



## finvarre

Stalker said:
			
		

> If you translate God's wind to Japaneseyou will understand all at once.


Thanks, Stalker . I'd love to translate these words, but I'm afraid you're demanding too much of me   ... I give up for now. I'll try to think about that later, though .


----------



## Stalker

There's no need to translate to Japanese - it weally would be too demanding! 
Just use your logic.
Let's summarise: What we have for now.
Japan
Time period - after 1853.
"*God's Wind*", again, comes to help the Japanese but this time it cannot accomplish the task, and *Japan is defeated*.
I guess, this Japanese word is known all around the world, I also think, you know it perfectly well - use logic and google! Good luck!


----------



## cyborg_cinema

_kamakaze_ "divine wind"


----------



## Stalker

Yep, _kamikadze_ - that was the key word. All right, your turn, cyborg_cinema!


----------



## cyborg_cinema

Stalker said:
			
		

> ...your turn, cyborg_cinema!


What was it about loading the Lee-Enfield rifle that contributed to the Sepoy Rebellion, India’s war of independence?


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

Did it have something to do with the fact that they use animal grease (think it was pigs?) to grease up the rifles. This meant the Muslim Indians could not, under their religion, touch them?
The British disregarded this and forced them to, and this caused the revolt?


----------



## Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

Animal grease in general, used to oil the cartridges. The Hindus couldn't touch cow fat, and the Muslims couldn't touch pig fat, rumours spread that it was either pig or cow, the Indian sepoys were pretty much disgruntled and disgusted. This issue was more of a flashpoint really - I believe the British actually did make efforts to replace the grease with a vegetarian substitute made from beeswax or vegetable oils, but popular sentiment was already against them for various reasons.


----------



## cyborg_cinema

(see next post)


----------



## cyborg_cinema

Winters_Sorrow said:
			
		

> Did it have something to do with the fact that they use animal grease (think it was pigs?) to grease up the rifles.


...yes! that's the basic answer I was looking for. your turn.


----------



## Stalker

WS, we've been waiting for you, pal!


----------



## Winters_Sorrow

whoops - missed the replies on this one!  

possibly very easy this, but what purpose did the following serve?


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## lazygun

Anti-miasma mask?.


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## Winters_Sorrow

hmm - along the right lines although I'd like a more specific historical context

who used it and when? (approx)


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## lazygun

...Never Google,so the best I can do is Middle/Dark ages/the Black Death/Spanish Flu,..Doctors?....

On second thought lets just say i was wrong.
If 1st try was off-target then no 2nd go's.


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## Stalker

This mask is a part of a doctor's protective suit of about 15th-18th centuries helping him to survive an epidemic of plague and pox or, at least believed to do so.

Dear fellow-gamers, since the administration of the SFF Chronicles Networks is going to shift all gaming activities to a co-operative website Free Cafe, I invite you all to the Playroom of the Free Cafe where there are almost all games you have here and even more. Go to the *Playroom*, register an join the Free cafe Community.
We all are looking forward to seeing you there.


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## Winters_Sorrow

lazygun said:
			
		

> ...Never Google,so the best I can do is Middle/Dark ages/the Black Death/Spanish Flu,..Doctors?....
> 
> On second thought lets just say i was wrong.
> If 1st try was off-target then no 2nd go's.


 
1st try wasn't wrong, I just wanted to see if you could identify which period this mask was mainly used - and Middle Ages, Black Death is correct.
Extra kudos for not using Goodle


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## Stalker

Moving to History Quiz in Free Cafe.


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