# New to industry: advice



## ellethekitty

Hello. I am a fledgling artist that uses recycled media to make pins, pendents, accessories. I am trying to figure out where i can advertise online that is not spam. Notice, I am not putting my website on the post here.
I am just looking for information from anyone who knows where there are online classified that are legitimate for funky sci fic art and comic related stuff. I mostly use comics and graphic novels in my work. It is hard for a newbie to sort out where they can do this sort of thing.
Any well meaning advice would be appreciated

My interests include Sandman comics and Neil Gaiman, X-men, star trek, star wars, Big Bang Theory

thanks


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## sloweye

Have you checked where you stand on image rights?
If you plan on selling stuff on a large scale you might want to look into that.

(just hope i'm not about to get a clip round the ear from a mod now  )


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## ellethekitty

Thanks. As I understand it, if I don't use scans or copies, and if they are part of art, I am not infringing on copyright. That means finding old and damaged comics to use. But, that's what I do. I use original media. that's how I started really, I got water damage on my copy of Endless Nights and I had to buy a new copy. If the comic companies are smart, they'll not that it actually increaase the value fo their comics as I use up all the old copies I can find. 
People who see them think they are neat, but I don't know where to get people to see them.

And, I guess its not a large scale operation
We have something called craigslist here in Canada, but it becomes a lss interesting venue each year. I wondered fi you had something similar in UK.

thanks for responding
Why would you get a clip on teh eye from a mod?!


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## ellethekitty

i posted here because I use comics and graphic novels mostly. I don't know if there is a more appropriate area for fledgling artists, but feel free to redirect me.


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## sloweye

There is a section for art somewhere around here, but i'm ure if its in the wrong place one of the site elders will move it to the appropriate place for you 


*Edit

http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/art/


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## ellethekitty

Thanks!!!


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## The Judge

elle, we try not to have the same or very similar threads in different sub-forums.  So rather than have one in Graphic Novels and one in art, we've removed the other and I'll take this over to the art section where it may get more attention from your fellow artists themselves, who will know more than the rest of us about this.


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## ellethekitty

Oh, thank you. I don't know how I missed the proper place to begin with, but I'm a  newbie.
thank you


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## sloweye

> *Me: *There is a section for art somewhere around here, but i'm sure if its in  the wrong place one of the site elders will move it to the appropriate  place for you





> *TJ:*  ...So rather than have one in Graphic Novels and one in art, we've  removed the other and I'll take this over to the art section where it  may get more attention from your fellow artists themselves, who will  know more than the rest of us about this.



See, Told ya


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## ellethekitty

I have to admit that I am a total flake and did not see it when I started to post.
my apologies and thanks for being so super.
I put some happy stuff in the gallery and that gives me a start.


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## Teresa Edgerton

ellethekitty said:


> Thanks. As I understand it, if I don't use scans or copies, and if they are part of art, I am not infringing on copyright.



I am fairly sure that this only applies if you have reworked the original pictire in such a way that it looks significantly different and lends itself to an entirely new interpretation.  I am not at all certain that the way you are doing this would count:  It doesn't matter that the comics are old or damaged, because the images themselves are copyright, not the paper they are printed on.  And using this artwork for decorative purposes could well infringe on some of their licensing agreements.  The puzzle shapes and the coins _might_ qualify as reworking the original images, if you have some convincingly artistic statement that you are making.  If you are just doing it because it looks fun and funky, I am sure that wouldn't qualify if the artists or the companies that still own the rights were to take you to court.  Could you even afford the legal fees?

I say this not to discourage you, but to suggest that you look into this further and make sure that your impression of what is allowed and what is not is both accurate and complete ... especially before you start advertising your artwork online.


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## ellethekitty

Hi there. thanks for your thoughts. As I understood it, reusing originals did not count, since the item has been paid for (to the proper licensee) and is just being re purposed. I could be mistaken, however, and if I was sued, I have zero assets. Still, I would hate to be shuit down. I don't make any money with my sales, but I really enjoy the process.
What about my little ponies being repurposed.
As I understood it, it just celebrates the brand.
You've seen The Spock and Princess Leia my little ponies?


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## sloweye

maybe its worth looking into it more indepth. Its got to be worth it rather than finding yourself at the sharp end of the law. I don't think the 'I paid for it so its mine' will wash in court or i'd just put out a Nirvana tribute album, after all, i bought all the albums (some of them twice, once the CD replaced tape  )


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## The Judge

ellethekitty said:


> I have to admit that I am a total flake and did not see it when I started to post.
> my apologies and thanks for being so super.


No problem.  It's taken me two years to work out where everything is, and I'm still making msitakes.

In the meantime, I agree with Teresa that I think your interpretation of copyright law is a bit out.  But it's been a long time since I did it, and I only ever practised in the law for England and Wales anyway, so I'd suggest you investigate it further before going too far.  Most importantly, don't assume that because A Company has done something that you can do it, too.  A Co may have paid substantial sums to B Co for permission to use the images/names/whatever.  Or A Co may be a copyright thief who is ripping B Co off.  Check for yourself.


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## ellethekitty

Well, thanks for the thoughts, but... I don't think of it as "I paid for it, its mine." I think if it as recycling damaged art. And I think because I am using originals, it makes a difference. There are professional artists out there repainting and re-appropriating photos in the Us and they have won such cases (I beleive) the Obama HOPE poster, which was simply a slightly colorized photo with a new title. There are also sandman tatoos, use of sandman in collages (as I understood it, collage is allowed and I am doing something similar in Decoupage)
I definitely think that if they sent me a cease and desist letter, which is the most likely, I would have to  do so, because I have no reseourses, but I dont think it is because I don't ahve an argument based on legal precedent.

I am a newbie about forum potions, but I have been doing this art for years with no complaints. and when I consulted, at the beginning, with someone, these were the precedents I was advised of. I was told not to worry about it.

However, maybe UK people are more "particular."


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## Teresa Edgerton

Your point about repurposing might well be valid, since you aren't making copies.

But I know the argument that it's art wouldn't hold at all (at least here in the US) unless you were using the images to create an _original_ work of art.  A collage might qualify, depending on how many different elements you added in and whether the combination produced a new interpretation of the images involved.  Simply decoupaging a picture, unaltered, is a very different matter.  It's just sticking something down and painting it over with the right kind of glue, after all.  (Although I do realize that in choosing which images to use you are exercising artistic judgement.)


"Celebrating the brand"?  That's an argument used pretty often by people engaged in the piracy of intellectual property, although I'm sure you are using it in all innocence.  But the people who own the brand are the ones who decide whether they feel it's being celebrated or ripped off.



> when I consulted, at the beginning, with someone, these were the precedents I was advised of.



Of course I don't know who  it was that you consulted, or what their qualifications were to advise you.  But a lot of misinformation goes around about copyright, so I hope that the person you consulted was someone you could be very sure knew what they were talking about.  Perhaps they did.  Only please be sure.  You are the one who might find yourself with a legal headache, not the person who gave you the advice.

I hope you don't think we are picking on you.  There are a number of writers (aspiring and published) and a handful of artists on these forums here, so naturally the subject of intellectual property rights is something we are bound to discuss when it comes up.


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## ellethekitty

what about these... do you have the same take. I think folk art like this makes the brand legendary. And I don't think the purposes of the artists were to pirate. and I think Hasbro (pony makers) have agreed

50 My Little Pony Mods for Geeks: Pics, Videos, Links, News

I guess I wont say anymore. I mean, Ive expressed my intent and the gods and lawyers will decide

storm trooper my little pony 
tron my little pony.
spider man pony


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## ellethekitty

my favorite
leia 
Ill bow out of the argment now though


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## Teresa Edgerton

If Hasbro agrees, that is fine for their product.  Other companies are very, very protective of theirs.  You simply can't take what one agrees to (or takes offense at) to apply for all the others. 

And I do know that in this country -- it may be very different in Canada --  court cases of the sort we are talking about are decided on a case by case basis.  They don't rely on precedents in the same way that they do for everything else, presumably because these things rely so much on interpretation. And if the comics were produced in the US by an American company, that is where the company would file suit.  Where you can't rely on precedents. 

I'm not really arguing with you, you know.  I'm just advising you to look further into the matter, because the information you already have may not be entirely reliable.  It can't hurt to learn more.  


However, if you're perfectly satisfied that you have all the information you need, then  don't worry about it.


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## ellethekitty

I guess I appreciate your wisdom. but looking online on Buzz feed, I see everything re appropriated, from Star wars to Dr. Seuss to Batman.
To me-since I am not mass producing, that's what matters
Im off to bed tho. its 330 in canada


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## Roy1

You can sell art at SF and fantasy conventions in the the dealer's room. You might test the water at a local convention where charges would be 'reasonable'. I think a table in the dealer's room at this years world convention in Reno is $160 but I could be wrong.

I've never been to a comics con so I've no idea about those. 

No idea about copyrights but people do sell second hand books and comics without infringing copyrights so maybe you would be OK selling comics cut up and placed on badges etc. 

Advertising depends on the audience you want to reach. If it's comics readers there are independent small press comics but I only know the Girly Comic and maybe Murky Depths (prose and graphic fiction). Interzone also takes ads but is not a comic. All these in UK but IZ (and MD?) have international circulations. Realms of Fantasy and F and SF are US magazines.


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## J Riff

Ahhh Elle..I didn't see you were in Canada....
Im in Vancouver, sadly, until I can escape. )
You'll find that almost any 'illegal' art will fly in Canada, nobody will bother you unless you try and infringe on any American or, probably, European bucks.
 This place... is so criminal...there are so many people openly flaunting the 'law' here...I just came back from a stroll and you can get virtually anything, tons and tons of ripped art for example, on the street next to the cop shop, they don't seem to care or enforce anything.
 If you ever do start to make any _real _money though...they will land on you from a great height and take it all away.


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