Terry Goodkind

[Lenny]

Haha! I'm English and I get the "demonizing the chicken". Anyone who has read the series should.

 

[Wiggum]

I wasn't sure about "jumping the shark".

 

[Lenny]

Oh... OK.

Well, in that case, I don't get "jumping the shark".

 

[Jason_Taverner]

I hope he stops writing he is pap

 

[Werthead]

I have no idea if that will make sense to those outside of the US.

Both do. 'Demonizing the chicken' refers to the moment when Goodkind decided to have an evil, shapeshifting chicken menace one of the main characters. It's gone down in legend as one of the most inexplicable moments in fantasy literature, and has been the source of much mirth in the genre (not 100% on this, but I think Scott Lynch parodies the scene in Red Seas Under Red Skies) as has the later (?) scene where a noble, heroic goat saves the day.

'Jumping the shark' comes from an episode of Happy Days where the Fonz has to jump over a captive shark (on skies, IIRC) as part of a bet. The phrase 'to jump the shark' means that a series (whether books, TV series or whatever) has gone into terminal decline and the writer is just doing stuff that doesn't make sense for the sheer hell of it. For example, The X-Files is often said to have jumped the shark when Mulder left, as the central reason for the show's existence (the Mulder/Scully believer/sceptic dynamic) had ceased to exist. The chicken scene is often seen as Goodkind's shark-jumping moment, although some hold that it actually came in Book 1 when our hero kicks a little girl in the face so hard she severs her tongue, justifying it because she is 'evil'.

 

[Confessor_Kahlan]

Wow thanks for clearing that up. I too didn't understand the shark. I've heard of Happy Days but that was before my time.

Both do. 'Demonizing the chicken' refers to the moment when Goodkind decided to have an evil, shapeshifting chicken menace one of the main characters. It's gone down in legend as one of the most inexplicable moments in fantasy literature, and has been the source of much mirth in the genre (not 100% on this, but I think Scott Lynch parodies the scene in Red Seas Under Red Skies) as has the later (?) scene where a noble, heroic goat saves the day.

'Jumping the shark' comes from an episode of Happy Days where the Fonz has to jump over a captive shark (on skies, IIRC) as part of a bet. The phrase 'to jump the shark' means that a series (whether books, TV series or whatever) has gone into terminal decline and the writer is just doing stuff that doesn't make sense for the sheer hell of it. For example, The X-Files is often said to have jumped the shark when Mulder left, as the central reason for the show's existence (the Mulder/Scully believer/sceptic dynamic) had ceased to exist. The chicken scene is often seen as Goodkind's shark-jumping moment, although some hold that it actually came in Book 1 when our hero kicks a little girl in the face so hard she severs her tongue, justifying it because she is 'evil'.

 

[Confessor_Kahlan]

I have a question but shouldn't Terry be listed under the authors section?? I'm always going there thinking this topic will be there but it isn't.

 

[nixie]

The authors with their own forums are ones who have generated a lot of interest. Some may have died of recently and may not get as many posts as they used but at one time or another there would be a number of threads in the general book section about said authors.Goodkind hasn't generate enough traffic to warrant his own forum. If in the future this changes, then it would be a possibility he would be given his own forum.

 

[Jason_Taverner]

The authors with their own forums are ones who have generated a lot of interest. Some may have died of recently and may not get as many posts as they used but at one time or another there would be a number of threads in the general book section about said authors.Goodkind hasn't generate enough traffic to warrant his own forum. If in the future this changes, then it would be a possibility he would be given his own forum.

but a lot of people hope and pry this never happens

 

[Lenny]

What have you all got against Goodkind, may I ask?

 

[Werthead]

He is an atrocious writer who pens idiotic hack fantasy but acts like he's unveiling mystically hidden 'truths' about the real world and gets annoyed when his books are called 'fantasy' (which he insists they're not, despite being set in a secondary world with magic and dragons and stuff).

There's also the fact his central 'hero' is a mass-murdering fascist dictator (who kicks little girls in the face and executes peace protestors), yet he is lauded by the author as a paragon of virtue whom everyone should emulate. In short, Goodkind is entirely lacking in merit. His popularity in some circles remains one of the most inexplicable phenomenons of modern fantasy.

 

[Lenny]

How many of his books, and which ones, have you read, out of interest?

 

[Jason_Taverner]

He is an atrocious writer who pens idiotic hack fantasy but acts like he's unveiling mystically hidden 'truths' about the real world and gets annoyed when his books are called 'fantasy' (which he insists they're not, despite being set in a secondary world with magic and dragons and stuff).

There's also the fact his central 'hero' is a mass-murdering fascist dictator (who kicks little girls in the face and executes peace protestors), yet he is lauded by the author as a paragon of virtue whom everyone should emulate. In short, Goodkind is entirely lacking in merit. His popularity in some circles remains one of the most inexplicable phenomenons of modern fantasy.

also the level of sexual violence is excessive and he uses it as a fall back point to move his so called plot forward. I can imagine him sitting at his desk writing away,

'Hmm I have become stuck, what can I use to drive my story forward?' 'An idea!!!!!!' [light bulb appears above his head.], 'More rape, of course I've only used in almost every paragraph of the last chapter, I think I will add more, you can never have enough rape!'

Lenny don't miss understand me this isn't a go at you, just a fact there are so many better authors out there, who do tackle adult themes in their work, but it is writen in the correct manor, instead of a cheap hook to drive a story forward.

 

[Jason_Taverner]

why not check http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/10103-fantasy-recommendations-for-the-unenlightened-2-a.html

for some good ideas on different authors

I have read the first 6 books, and once I started reading different authors, I saw how below par he is.

 

[Lenny]

Lenny don't miss understand me this isn't a go at you, just a fact there are so many better authors out there, who do tackle adult themes in their work, but it is writen in the correct manor, instead of a cheap hook to drive a story forward.

Don't worry, I don't for a moment think it is. I just find it strange how people can hate Goodkind so much.

 

[Suzakk]

I've been wondering, too, why some people hate Goodkind so much. Please understand, I say this as someone who hates Ayn Rand (who seems to have deeply informed Goodkind's politics), who loathes and fears right-wing-nutism in general, and who is made seriously uncomfortable with Goodkind's preoccupation with rape. But somehow I enjoy his books despite all that. I guess it's how personally the Goodkind-haters take what to them is the badness of the books, that puzzles me. I mean, I almost think the haters would simply shrug off straight-up right-wing political freaks' writings--like, say, the oeuvre of Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. But Goodkind really gets their blood pressure up.

On a related note, I wish we could get a Goodkind-dedicated area going, too. Even if it becomes a gathering of haters.

 

[Confessor_Kahlan]

Sometimes you have to look past all of the rape and think about the Main reason the story is being told. For instance in Temple of the Winds, Richard has to find a cure for the plague. In order to do so he has to ask his father about finding the cure. We also meet his half-brother Drefan. Richard has to make the decision. While his people are suffering Richard decides to make the correct choice. And so, he pays the price but in the end the cure is found and the plague disperses. It's the main storyline that gets my attention which is why I love Terry's stories so much. I know nothing of this Any Rand person nor have I ever read anything by him/her. I enjoy finding out the new wizard rules in each novel. As for my favorite characrtres, well, each of them have their orn unique personalities it's hard for me to pick out a favorite one. Speaking of Terry, has anyone here ever gone to a gathering? I'd love to go but I don't know where and when they take place.

 

[j d worthington]

I know nothing of this Any Rand person nor have I ever read anything by him/her.

On Ayn Rand:

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/r/rand.htm

Her most famous and influential books would probably be Atlas Shrugged (1957) and The Fountainhead (1943). She's had a major influence on twentieth-century humanist philosophy and many of the writers of the later 20th century, as well, including Goodkind (though, from my understanding, he takes it considerably further -- and without nearly so much legitimacy -- than she).

 

[Talysia]

So far, I haven't read any of Goodkind's work. For some reason, whenever I've picked them up off the shelves, they just didn't appeal to me. From reading back through these posts, though, I can tell that Goodkind's writing is controversial in its content, so I guess I'm not surprised that opinion is so divided. Still, I didn't expect the topic to get so heated!

 

[Lenny]

If you do start to read any of the SoT series, then start at the very start with Wizards First Rule.

It's a natural place to start, as it's the first book, and I think it can be argued that Richard as a character, and Goodkind as a writer, won't be thinking they are the moral saviour of the world, and won't be as arrogant (as much as I love the series, I still think that Goodkind is a very arrogant author, and Richard an arrogant character).