ADWD's POVs

[AryaUnderfoot]

Now boys, let's not fight.

TK-421, while I think it is unlikely that Sansa will go from Alayne back to her real name as the new POV, in your support I will agree that she is not quite Sansa anymore in AFFC. She thinks of herself less and less as Sansa Stark of Winterfell. We'll see how it goes...

 

[TK-421]

I had a smile on the whole time I was typing. No hard feelings on this end anyways. GRRM has shown that most of what I write on theories and speculations are completely wrong anyways (that probably goes for most of us on these threads).

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Oh! Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude at all. I just couldn't remember the number sequence in your name( I'm rather bad at remembering numbers) and one of your posts was not on the page so I couldn't reference it. Wait, that IS what you were upset about isn't it? If it was about what I said then I'm not apologizing at all.

 

[TK-421]

Oh! Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude at all. I just couldn't remember the number sequence in your name( I'm rather bad at remembering numbers) and one of your posts was not on the page so I couldn't reference it. Wait, that IS what you were upset about isn't it? If it was about what I said then I'm not apologizing at all.

Actually, it was more the tone of the post and your assumption made in it regarding Sansa. My point was very well explained by Arya Underfoot's post. So your non-apology is accepted.

 

[Boaz]

In the thread http://http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/9425-frey-talk.html aka Frey Talk, Tom O'Sevens proposed a Frey POV in the future. If I can sum up his argument without ruining it, he thinks that Roslin Tully (Edmure's bride) or Olyvar Frey (Robb's squire) right now are far removed from inheriting the Twins, but that Black Walder Frey, Edwyn Frey, and other ambitious Freys (and Rivers) will continue to kill those closest to inheritance and that Roslin and Olyvar (who have reason to hate the Lannisters) will find themselves suddenly within reach of taking the Twins. One of their POVs as they move up the ladder would be intriguing.

 

[JohnSnow]

I like "plonker."

Plonker/plunker has always made me laugh as well. I am terribly amused by sarcastic vulgarity as it is, throw what I consider "nice" foreign vulgarity like prat, twit, naff, and I have to laugh!

In the thread http://http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/9425-frey-talk.html aka Frey Talk, Tom O'Sevens proposed a Frey POV in the future. If I can sum up his argument without ruining it, he thinks that Roslin Tully (Edmure's bride) or Olyvar Frey (Robb's squire) right now are far removed from inheriting the Twins, but that Black Walder Frey, Edwyn Frey, and other ambitious Freys (and Rivers) will continue to kill those closest to inheritance and that Roslin and Olyvar (who have reason to hate the Lannisters) will find themselves suddenly within reach of taking the Twins. One of their POVs as they move up the ladder would be intriguing.

A Frey POV would make sense in the fact that they have become a major part to the series, much like the increased Greyjoy POV occurences in aFfC. Hsss (sound of re-entering suspended animation capsule until new book comes out)

*snow*

 

[Tom O'Sevens]

What I'd be interested to see with a Theon POV is where is he decides to go once he escapes/is released from the dungeon he's likely languishing in at the Dreadfort.

From the Ironborn chapters in AFfC, the general opinion of Theon in the Iron Islands is good riddance. I have little doubt Euron or Victarion wouldn't think twice about killing him given half a chance, Aeron hasn't shown Theon anything but contempt and Asha at best will only help him on condition she gets to be 'top dog'. The North as a whole now consider him scum. He's also unlikely to be able to sell himself to the Lannisters because whatever else his father's fleets attacked Lannisport and before that he was a ward of Eddard Stark.

A thought I had was that he might think again on going to the Wall to present himself to Stannis if not join the Watch, which throws up an interesting situation for both himself and Jon Snow. For Theon's part there's the problem that Jon who he has never on with and now has plenty of reasons to hate him is now Lord Commander something he is unlikely to know when he sets out for the Wall. There's also the problem of Melisandre and her 'interest' in sons of Kings...

For Jon, Theon's presence at the Wall will present him with yet another test of his morals, duty and feelings. Jon has every reason to hate Theon, but on the other hand knows the Watch shouldn't play 'The Game of Thrones' also it is in the Watch's interest if Theon was to join up. Finally Jon may wish revenge on Theon but would he wish Melisandre on anyone?

 

[TK-421]

Altrenativelly, Theon could likely be a part of Davos' POV and it could be Davos that brings him to Stannis. Theon could pledge his fealty to Stannis and be sent off to the Iron Islands to bring down Euron (maybe with the help of Asha who's disappeared - but I'm hoping is also on her way to find Dany). Would be ironic as Theon's lot in life would be to first represent Robb and now Stannis..

 

[Werthead]

Hi there. I'm a mod on the quasi-official GRRM forum (at asoiaf.westeros) and, specifically, the guy who is maintaining the ADWD news thread. I thought I might share the latest developments on the book on here as well:

A Dance with Dragons is the fifth of seven planned books in the series. It definitely (100%) features the following POV characters:

Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow
Bran Stark
Arya Stark
Tyrion Lannister
Davos Seaworth
Asha Greyjoy
1 returning POV
1 new POV
(Arya and Asha are in both AFFC and ADWD)

Fan speculation seems to be currently favouring Quentyn Martell as the new POV. This is backed up by the fact that GRRM told us that there would be five Dorne chapters in the pre-split AFFC, and only four Dorne chapters appeared in the published, split AFFC.

Theon Greyjoy is a surefire bet as the returning POV. The only other possible candidate is Catelyn and GRRM has said we will never have a POV from the undead Catelyn.

IMPORTANT: GRRM has said he may insert some further chapters if he has space at the end of ADWD to address the fates of certain characters from AFFC. Apparently this is because ADWD will cover a longer period of time than AFFC and he wants to keep the timelines of the two books more or less in synch.

ADWD will definitely (100%) feature the following locations:

Castle Black and the Wall
The Free City of Pentos
The Free City of Braavos
The Free City of Volantis
The island of Sweetsister
Meereen

ADWD will include a new map showing the Free Cities.

It is also theorised that we will see Craster's Keep, the city of White Harbour, the ruins of Winterfell, Moat Cailin, the castle of Deepwood Motte, locations in the Haunted Forest and the castle known as the Dreadfort in the book. The Dreadfort (stronghold of House Bolton) is pretty likely since GRRM issued a very detailed description of the fortress to Fantasy Flight for the ASoIaF CCG a year or so ago. It's also where Theon Greyjoy is located at the moment and he is virtually certain to be in the book.

George RR Martin is planning the book to be roughly 1200 manuscript pages in length (that will roughly work out to about 800 pages in hardback), slightly longer than AFFC. He has currently over 500 manuscript pages completed (that's nearly half, to you and me). He has also completed a major overhaul of the chapters that ADWD inherited when AFFC was split in half and a revamping of the first Tyrion chapter, which is now available to peruse on his official website, under SAMPLE.

Absolutely no release date has been set. Based on writing speed, GRRM's future commitments and so forth, it seems possible that the novel could be published in the summer of 2007 if not slightly earlier. That is my guess. GRRM has not made an announcement on dates and will not until the book is finished. Has has also finished roughly 75% of the third Dunk & Egg story, which he copes to complete in the autumn for publishing in early 2007, hopefully in a new anthology of fantasy writers GRRM himself will edit, possibly similar to the defunct Legends series by Robert Silverberg. The deal for this has not been done though and plans could still change.

Book 6 has the working title The Winds of Winter.
Book 7 has the working title A Dream of Spring, recently changed from A Time for Wolves.

As for my own personal theories: I think Asha will spring Theon from the Dreadfort since she has accepted she will never be accepted as Queen of the Iron Isles herself, but if she supports Theon as a puppet ruler she will become the power behind the throne. If Davos survives his alleged 'death' in White Harbour he'll have to lie low beyond Westeros' borders and the Free City of Braavos is realtively nearby across the Narrow Sea. Perhaps there he could meet Arya and provide the catalyst for her return to Westeros? This is strengthened by GRRM's decision to split Arya between the two novels: in AFFC she interacts with an AFFC-central character (Sam), so having her in ADWD as well would suggest that she interacts with a ADWD-central character as well. Davos is the only logical choice.

 

[Boaz]

Werthead, thank you for the information. I'm glad someone is on top of the real situation and not just making up theories to pass the time... um, that'd be me.

Interesting thoughts on Asha. I see your logic and it seems very possible. All I know is that Asha is not going down without a fight.

Regarding Davos' storyline... if the Manderlys secretly ally with Stannis and send Davos to Braavos, then they are really putting themselves between a rock and a hard place. Jaime just freed Ser Wylis, iirc, and the Lannisters think they have bought the Manderlys allegiance. The Manderlys will have to openly declare their real allegiance sometime and if they openly choose Stannis before one of the Starks declares him/herself, then they will be branded as traitors at worst and band wagonners at best. Why would the Manderlys choose Stannis anyway? I think the Boltons, backed with gold from the Rock, can put enormous pressure on White Harbor.

But back to Davos, is Braavos the best place to hide? Is Salladhor Saan from Braavos? Will he hide Davos? Did Stannis ever pay Salla or will Davos get money from the Manderlys to pay off Salla? Will Arya be sent to spy out Davos?

I don't know that Arya has to interact with a ADWD character... could it not just be more of her story or could it be another old character that she meets? What if she met Jorah? What about Darkstar? Or we could be introduced to Quentyn through her story... I've not seen the map of the Free Cities, but would Quentyn pass through on his way to Slaver's Bay?

 

[Werthead]

Other possibilities certainly exist for Arya. However, Braavos is the most northerly of the Free Cities (it's more or less due east of Crackclaw Point on the maps). This is followed in order from north to south by Pentos, Tyrosh, Myr, Lys and Volantis. Norvos and Qohor are inland, roughly due east of Pentos. Lorath is on an island in the Narrow Sea, probably fairly northerly, but we don't have enough info to pinpoint it exactly. Lys is on an island at the eastern end of the Stepstones, based on current information.

Volantis is the southern-most of the Free Cities and the one most likely for Quentyn to pass through (which boosts the likelihood of him being the new POV, since Volantis is definitely in the book).

 

[Culhwch]

Definitely an interesting theory about Davos. I was certainly leaning towards the Manderleys using his 'death' as a ruse to free Wylis before going over to Stannis. What I'd be interested to know is whether an appearance by Rickon at White Harbour has anything to do with events there. Stannis was offering Jon the North - would he not as quickly install Rickon as lord in an attempot to secure the allegiance of the lords of the North...? That would explain the Manderleys going over.

A small point on the titles... I'm a little dissappointed that A Time for Wolves has fallen by the wayside. I understand GRRM's reasoning, but I liked the ring of that one. Oh well.

 

[TK-421]

Where is the island of Sweetsister and why is it in the ADWD?

I don't think Asha will actually free Theon. I don't think she really ever liked him and may still see an opportunity with her uncle Victorion if he betrays Euron. The Iron fleet may be used by Dany to transport her army.

Davos is Braavos...interesting.

Quentyn may be an interesting POV but I would much rather get into the spider's head and have a Varys POV. Quentyn would likely show up in a Dany POV anyways and maybe she has enough of ugly slave cities and makes her way to Volantis. All possibilities...

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I believe Sweetsister is in that bay that Whiteharbor sits on. I'm pretty sure that it's one of the Sisters that that dude they called the Sisterman is from. I can't remember where he showed up but I do recall that he was very unpleasant. Sorry about the vagueness and obscurity.

 

[Boaz]

Lark the Sisterman was part of the Night's Watch. Iirc, he was in the plot to kill the officers at the Fist and flee to the Wall.

 

[Werthead]

Sweetsister is one of the Sisters, the islands just north of the Vale of Arryn and south of White Harbour. It is the setting for the first Davos chapter.

George RR Martin has confirmed that under no circumstances will we ever get a POV from Varys, Littlefinger or Howland Reed as they know too much about the series' central mysteries.

 

[Boaz]

Under no circumstances? I could just see the epilogue to the last book being a Varys POV. And the very last sentence would throw a curve into one of the central mysteries... ala Frederick Forsyth... and we'd all let out a collective groan at our amazement, frustration, and horror of what we just found out from the Spider.

 

[TK-421]

Confimed? When the hell did that happen? Anyways, hopefully we'll get an interesting POV in place of Varys (like Sandor) instead of the likes of Quentyn.

That would be a good twist Boaz.

 

[Tom O'Sevens]

The POV I am expecting would be Jorah Mormont. This largely due to the fact he's just suffered yet another twist in his fortunes with that ungracious little dragon bitch casting him off like an unwanted shoe after everything he's done for her! Jorah's been a fairly major character throughout the series and following his falling out with Dany - its decision time like it was for Theon when he was sent home, Jaime when he was released from Riveruun, Sam when Jon was taken by the Wildlings and most recently Cersai when Tywin and Joffery died.

 

[Boaz]

Agreed.