"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

Here's something I'm curious about:

We've covered how the industry frowns upon authors writing in multiple genres. How about Fiction and Non-Fiction?

In many ways, writing fiction and writing non-fiction -- especially the technical side of non-fiction -- are very different things. And I'm sure many published authors started out supporting themselves with non-fiction.

Also, if writing fiction and non-fiction is accepted, how would that work as far as agents are concerned? While many agents cover both sides, the 'right' agent for your fiction might not be the 'right' agent for your non-fiction.
 
I'll go back to basics: the most important thing for a new writer is to write one wonderful novel. Or one wonderful non-fiction book. Later on, novelists do sometimes write non-fiction. Non-fiction writers also occasionally write fiction - though the disciplines are very different, as you say. Most writers I've dealt with who also have 'day jobs' have supported themselves in fields other than writing.

And if a new writer comes to an agent saying they want to do both, the agent will weigh up whether or not the writer is right for them.
 
Dear Mr. Jarrold,

I am still halfway through my first manuscript, so I am a long way from submitting anything to you, but I hope you could answer a few questions which have been gnawing at me.

1) For the self-introduction part in a query letter: being a new writer with no writing credits to speak of, would a simple introduction as below be enough?

"I've been an avid fantasy reader for the last 15 years. Inspired by the likes of Glen Cook, Robert Jordan and Steven Erikson, I hope to one day join the distinguished ranks of published fantasy writers. I believe that my book contains the vast scope similar to Erikson and Jordan, the thrilling action of Scott Lynch, and the innovative magic systems of Brandon Sanderson."

2) The world in my book(s) is vast, and so is the scope. Plotlines span the globe. I have planned my books to be: a standalone book which works as an introduction, a trilogy set in another city of the same continent; where new characters on the run have a chance meeting with familiar characters from the first book; the 2nd trilogy where our party of adventurers travel to another continent and find more companions for their quest; the 3rd trilogy marks the end of the quest, where the companions reach their destination, only to find that things are not exactly what they expect; a final trilogy chronicles a global conflict, where familiar characters scattered across the globe must find a way to reveal the truth behind it all, and survive the consequences.

The question is this: how should I market the first book? Short of the final trilogiy, the first book and the first three trilogies are meant to standalone. They use the POV of new characters with their own plotlines, while the questers serve as a sense of familiarity for returning readers as well as a link between the plots. Therefore, should I market these books are part of a greater series (which would encompass a staggering 13 books), or simply as standalone books (or trilogies) set in the same world?

I thank you all for your patience if you have read all the way through to the end, and I wait patiently for your helpful answers.

Alexander Days (pesudonym).
 
John Jarrold said:
I'll go back to basics: the most important thing for a new writer is to write one wonderful novel.
Click to expand...

And that is the hardest thing of all.

To be honest, 99.9% of us want to be writers won't do it, me included.

You have to decide do you want to keep writing, enjoying the process on a personal level, writing just for yourself mainly, with the off chance something you write might make it. Or you give up, throw your toys out the pram, and blame the industry for not seeing your talent. I have seen this on writing boards time after time and it is nonsense. People need to see that their work just doesn't have what it takes to be worth taking a risk on in a commercial sense.

I am not saying give up on the dream, just take off the rose-tinted glasses and see publishing at a business with the same criteria as any other business. I personally think because the subject, (the creation of a novel) of the business is so personal in nature to the author, people tend to forget this somewhat, and take rejection very personally. You can't afford to do that, because you get nowhere, ending up chasing your tail and doubting every word you have written.
 
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SJAB said:
And that is the hardest thing of all.

To be honest, 99.9% of us want to be writers won't do it, me included.

You have to decide do you want to keep writing, enjoying the process on a personal level, writing just for yourself mainly, with the off chance something you write might make it. Or you give up, throw your toys out the pram, and blame the industry for not seeing your talent. I have seen this on writing boards time after time and it is nonsense. People need to see that their work just doesn't have what it takes to be worth taking a risk on in a commercial sense.

I am not saying give up on the dream, just take off the rose-tinted glasses and see publishing at a business with the same criteria as any other business. I personally think because the subject, (the creation of a novel) of the business is so personal in nature to the author, people tend to forget this somewhat, and take rejection very personally. You can't afford to do that, because you get nowhere, ending up chasing your tail and doubting every word you have written.
Click to expand...

That's the problem. From what I've seen from most boards, most of the writers fall into 3 categories.

a) Fanboys who think they can write better than whatever is on the market.

b) People who love writing and write regardless of whether they are publishable.

c) People who see the money made by those bestselling authors and aspire to be one of them.

The common thing about all these people is that they all feel that they can write well. Yet the reality is usually the opposite, and these people feel the hurt on their ego. After all, writing ability is something that is detached from physicality, so a criticism to their writing ability is taken as an insult to their intelligence.

I think passion is still important, because the publishing world is doubtlessly a cruel one. A fantastic book may be passed on simply because the publisher is changing focus, or the agent is a poor one, or its the wrong genre, or it simply fell through the cracks. Passion is important to keep you out there writing and submitting, no matter how many rejections you get. Passion will get you a thick skin. And I guess that's the 2nd most important attribute a writer must have.
 
Alexander Days said:
Dear Mr. Jarrold,

I am still halfway through my first manuscript, so I am a long way from submitting anything to you, but I hope you could answer a few questions which have been gnawing at me.

1) For the self-introduction part in a query letter: being a new writer with no writing credits to speak of, would a simple introduction as below be enough?

"I've been an avid fantasy reader for the last 15 years. Inspired by the likes of Glen Cook, Robert Jordan and Steven Erikson, I hope to one day join the distinguished ranks of published fantasy writers. I believe that my book contains the vast scope similar to Erikson and Jordan, the thrilling action of Scott Lynch, and the innovative magic systems of Brandon Sanderson."

YES, BEING HONEST AND STRAIGHTFORWARD IS THE BEST POLICY.

2) The world in my book(s) is vast, and so is the scope. Plotlines span the globe. I have planned my books to be: a standalone book which works as an introduction, a trilogy set in another city of the same continent; where new characters on the run have a chance meeting with familiar characters from the first book; the 2nd trilogy where our party of adventurers travel to another continent and find more companions for their quest; the 3rd trilogy marks the end of the quest, where the companions reach their destination, only to find that things are not exactly what they expect; a final trilogy chronicles a global conflict, where familiar characters scattered across the globe must find a way to reveal the truth behind it all, and survive the consequences.

The question is this: how should I market the first book? Short of the final trilogiy, the first book and the first three trilogies are meant to standalone. They use the POV of new characters with their own plotlines, while the questers serve as a sense of familiarity for returning readers as well as a link between the plots. Therefore, should I market these books are part of a greater series (which would encompass a staggering 13 books), or simply as standalone books (or trilogies) set in the same world?

AS A GREATER SERIES IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEN LET INTERESTED PUBLISHERS OR AGENTS ADVISE YOU.

I thank you all for your patience if you have read all the way through to the end, and I wait patiently for your helpful answers.

Alexander Days (pesudonym).
Click to expand...

See answers above in capitals!
 
Hello John

I would like to ask you a question about editing.

I presume if a manuscript gets accepted the publisher will most likely have some changes they would like to be made, and the manuscript will go through some editing process. I was curious as to how radical any suggested changes might be; are we talking about higher level structural stuff to do with plotlines, or does it ever extend to the level of the sentence, such as amending style or vocabulary choices?

I don't have any submitted manuscripts, I was just curious as to how deep a publisher will want to go on editing something to make it a better sell!

Thanks
 
All the way. The editor who acquires the book will give as many general and specific editorial notes as required - over the years I worked in publishing I sent up to ten pages of closely-written notes to authors, which they then go through and work on. Usually, about 95% of that is done happily and the final 5% is discussed further. And then every book is copy-edited for consistency, spelling, grammar, etc. That version of the novel goes back to the author for a final check, then to the typesetters.

General notes deal with plot, characters, dialogue, pace (sometimes saying 'that scene is too long, you're waffling, get on with it' or 'that scene doesn't tell the reader enough', etc. Specific notes can relate to a page, paragraph or sentence. And the copy-edit will also include changing sentence structure and specific words where necessary to add clarity, making sure words and phrases are not repeated in close proximity and so forth. Clarity and pace are two of the most important words in any editor's lexicon.
 
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A line by line edit of a 100k+ manuscript must be pretty time consuming!
I had suspected that only manuscripts that were almost the finished article would be accepted, to avoid that level of editorial intervention. But I suppose if the publisher sees potential in the story, they will be willing to develop it.

A further question, if I may; in your experience as an editor, what are the most common sorts of things you see writers getting wrong?
 
Every author needs editing, whether it's a class act like Robert Holdstock or Ken MacLeod - both of whom I've had the pleasure of publishing and editing - or a debut novelist.

Bad and common errors: Awful dialogue - read it out loud, does it sound natural, coming from your mouth? Hackneyed plots. No discernable focus to the book or sense of continuity. Cliches. A complete lack of wit or humour. "Characters" who are only talking heads. A lack of background. A lack of foreground. No sense of reality. A glacial pace. No idea of the commercial market. And most people cannot write fiction to a publishable standard.

I could go on endlessly. But any one of those is enough to get a novel turned down.
 
Thanks for the insight (although it's slightly depressing to see there are so many pitfalls lying in wait for a writer, and so many things to get so badly wrong...).
 
Oh, also lots of telling from the outside, rather then seeing the story from specific characters' point-of-view (and only use one character throughout a scene, don't jump around). 'Show, don't tell' is tattooed on every fiction editor's heart in 2008...

And, of course: huge expository lumps. The dreaded info-dump.
 
So let me see.
1. Agents are like door to door salesmen, in that they go from publisher to publisher going hello would you be interested in buying this book. And am i right in thinking that they do a bit of the editors, editing advice to save the actual editor time? And do they handle the promotion along side the publisher?

2. Editors, will give you little notes on saying i cant see much of a plot in this Manuscript or an overlying arc if its a trilogy. Then they decide on whether to make it a 240 page book or a 300 page book by choosing the right font and size of lettering(which is why they don't want something fancy wheather readible or not) If they see potential in a character they may ask for an extra scene to expand it.

Am i right in thinking that when its sent to a printer to be made into its first publishing draft, y'know the one they send back so you can read it and see if the typesetters followed instructions. A guy or girl is employed to retype the entire thing?
 
anthorn said:
So let me see.
1. Agents are like door to door salesmen, in that they go from publisher to publisher going hello would you be interested in buying this book. And am i right in thinking that they do a bit of the editors, editing advice to save the actual editor time? And do they handle the promotion along side the publisher?

NO. AGENTS ARE SPECIALISTS WHO WILL SOMETIMES SPEND MONTHS OR YEARS TALKING TO ONE OR TWO SPECIFIC EDITORS WHO ARE THE RIGHT PEOPLE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL AUTHOR. SOMETIMES, ONE SENDS A BOOK TO ALL THE MAJOR GENRE PUBLISHERS, BECAUSE IT'S SPECIAL AND MAY LEAD TO AN AUCTION - BUT THE IMPORTANT WORD HERE IS 'INDIVIDUAL'. ONE DEALS WITH EACH NOVEL AND AUTHOR AS A SEPARATE ENTITY, NOT AS ANOTHER BOX OF BAKED BEANS.
2. Editors, will give you little notes on saying i cant see much of a plot in this Manuscript or an overlying arc if its a trilogy. Then they decide on whether to make it a 240 page book or a 300 page book by choosing the right font and size of lettering(which is why they don't want something fancy wheather readible or not) If they see potential in a character they may ask for an extra scene to expand it.
NO. IF ANY OF THESE PROBLEMS ARE IN A BOOK AN EDITOR WILL REJECT IT. AND IN FIFTEEN YEARS I NEVER SELECTED A FONT TO GIVE A SPECIFIC PAGE EXTENT.

Am i right in thinking that when its sent to a printer to be made into its first publishing draft, y'know the one they send back so you can read it and see if the typesetters followed instructions. A guy or girl is employed to retype the entire thing?
NO. BOOKS ARE SET FROM COMPUTER DISK NOW, TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE AUTHOR'S FINAL, EDITED VERSION OF THE BOOK.
Click to expand...

I actually thought you were joking in this post. I couldn't believe that someone who has been a member of the forum for almost two years and read the various threads regularly would imagine anything you said was the reality of the matter!
 
IT was partly a joke. But there are still things i dont understand. i thought Agents were people who take you on as a client and then do the submitting for you. But from what i understand from you in that reply they're like negotiators. Basically going for the higher deal and the most publicity. They would take a Manuscript and say take it to TOR EOS and Orbit. See which one offers the best advances and best marketing prospects, as well as seeing if it fits in with the fantasy that Tor publishes or Orbit publishes. Because they'll need a good deal so that they can get a share in the profits too (Or does the Author pay them upfront?)

But when you say books are set from computer disk, what does that mean in regards to paper manuscript. Does that mean they ask for manuscript first because its easy to read on the bus and train. And then the manuscript on computer disk so they can get on with publishing it?
 
Exactly. When a book is contracted, the contract always says that the author will deliver both a hard copy of the book, and a copy on disk.
 
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