What About Sansa?

[Wil]

Oh, and Smilie, Sansa must die. Painfully.

 

[Queen Cersei]

You people...Sansa is a major player in the making and will no doubt already have the North and the Vale wrapped around her finger and waiting when Dany shows up.

Smilie is RIGHT!!!! Sansa and Dany and Cersei to rule

I'm glad you find my constant struggle to squash your vile rumours funny, dear Willie, but I'm trying my best. People can be a little...queer.

And no, no, no, that does NOT work for me

 

[TK-421]

Alright, all those in the sandbox need to play nicely and not call each other names (I didn't the use of queer was Ok to say anymore unless you are actually queer).

With regards Sansa, Margaery and Loras dying, knowing GRRM, you will probably all have your wishes come true.

Have we really spent 10 pages on Sansa on this thread? Sansa is being set up by GRRM to play a very important role in something. Your guess is as best as mine.

 

[Wil]

As a point of vengeance/honor Dae needs to kill the Starks, since they and the Stags were the houses that lead the rebellion against her father. That's the purpose of Sansa I think. We all love Bran so he'll survive. We all love Arya the assassin so she'll survive. Sansa's the sacrificial lamb to feed to the dragons.

Realistically I do see great things coming from Sansa. I just wish she would stop crying already and toughen up. Littlefinger's good for her. He's the only one teaching her that life's a b!tch and you've got to get over it. How'd Arya ever get stuck with such a wimpy sister?

 

[Raven]

As a point of vengeance/honor Dae needs to kill the Starks, since they and the Stags were the houses that lead the rebellion against her father. That's the purpose of Sansa I think. We all love Bran so he'll survive. We all love Arya the assassin so she'll survive. Sansa's the sacrificial lamb to feed to the dragons.

I've got to say I can see Bran and Arya dying a lot more easily than I can Sansa. Arya in particular: after all, what future is there for an assassin, in peacetime? Her whole story is more of a tragedy, too...

Realistically I do see great things coming from Sansa. I just wish she would stop crying already and toughen up. Littlefinger's good for her. He's the only one teaching her that life's a b!tch and you've got to get over it. How'd Arya ever get stuck with such a wimpy sister?

If Sansa's a wimp, then so is Bran. The similarities between he and Sansa are marked.

As for LF: he's teaching Sansa about reality, yes, but reality as he sees it. And certainly, he isn't teaching her about getting over things. This is, after all, the man who never got over his rejection by Cat. He's still driven by it fifteen years later.

 

[Koopa]

Whitebeard Barristan will educate so, i dont think she'll be wanting Stark blood, especially not since they did not even live or where just born during the Uprising

 

[Crisspin]

We all love Bran so he'll survive. We all love Arya the assassin so she'll survive. Sansa's the sacrificial lamb to feed to the dragons.

This seems anathema to Martin's style ... it is exactly because we love those characters that they are more likely to die. It adds little spark when a character that is not enjoyed is killed off, the reader simply says good ridance. Its the characters we care about that make us scream and care and cry.

Realistically I do see great things coming from Sansa. I just wish she would stop crying already and toughen up. Littlefinger's good for her. He's the only one teaching her that life's a b!tch and you've got to get over it. How'd Arya ever get stuck with such a wimpy sister?

I felt she got over the constant crying and toughened up quite a bit towards the end. She was a bit subservient to LF, but I felt it was more that she had grown up and was trying to figure out the situation more .. biding her time.

 

[ras'matroi]

Sansa is still a bit naive and dreams of a life as a lady of
some house a husband and children.
What if she still wants to accomplish that and remembers
the offer of Margery and her grandma and somehow gets
the chance to meet up with them again.
The Queen of Thorns could definitely teach her a lot and
Highgarden would get an advance, too.
But it does not seem likely to happen this way.


Imo Arya will at least survive untill she meets up with Nymeria
again or untill Nymeria dies.
The wolves symbolize somehow the status of the Starks.
Robb and Grey Wind dead : can't do anything anymore
Jon and Ghost : fighting at the wall, aren't able to really do
anything
Rickon and Shaggy: hiding potential danger to enemies
Bran and Summer: learning to master their abilities getting
more and more dangerous

And now Nymeria prowling the Riverlands leading the other
wolves being a denger to almost everyone (ok she resued Cat)
and everyone fears them
What if arya becomes something like her

Only Sansa does not fit in the picture. Maybe that means she
will die, too. Or she has just no big chances to influece things
anymore.
You can go on endlessly : Nymeria attacked a lanister and the
result was that Lady died but Nymeria stayed alive.....
So if Arya comes back and seeks revenge and attacks the
Lannisters....

 

[Queen Cersei]

I've got to say I can see Bran and Arya dying a lot more easily than I can Sansa. Arya in particular: after all, what future is there for an assassin, in peacetime? Her whole story is more of a tragedy, too...

If Sansa's a wimp, then so is Bran. The similarities between he and Sansa are marked.

I completely agree...I see Sansa as much more of an integral character than Bran or Arya

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I don't know about more intergral, but I see Bran and Arya being more "backstage players" so to speak. Sansa has been groomed to be the "face" of well, whatever cause she is attached to.

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

As a point of vengeance/honor Dae needs to kill the Starks, since they and the Stags were the houses that lead the rebellion against her father. That's the purpose of Sansa I think.

I think that once Dany learns the cold ugly truth about her father, she may be more sympathetic towards the Starks. After all, Aerys had Ned's father and brother tortured and murdered. As a point of vengeance/honor, Ned had to do what he did. As for the Stags, well... there's not all that much left of them, now, is there? Stannis is bound to snap and go craaaaaazy.

 

[TK-421]

I think Dany already suspects her father was not a very good ruler and the evidence is Viserys. She's not stupid and knows that so many great houses would not have rised up against the Targaryen rule unless there was a damn good reason (i.e. Aerys). She would seek to avenge her brother Rheagar, whom she holds in very high esteem, over her father.

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

I think its going to be a challenge for her psychologically to get past the fact that the "ursurper" had assassins chasing her and her brother all her life.
Heh, you saw how she treated Mormont. I dont think she's terribly forgiving. Any surviving Baratheons and Lannisters may want to run for cover when the dragons come flying.

I dont know what her thoughts on the Starks may be, but Mormont certainly has had her ear regarding Eddard.

What remains to be seen is what information she'll gather from Barriston and others as the story progresses. That is most like to change her mind and I dont think she'll harbor any great ill will towards the Stark children. (at least hopefullly not)

 

[Wil]

It really could go either way, depending on GM's mood. She could be magnanimous and just "pardon" everyone. But she's been alone all her life and she could feel the need for vengeance.

Also she may have to cater to allies once she's back in, and there's a lot of personal bitterness that could force her to seek vengeance for political reasons.

The one thing I do see her doing is castrating the Lion, no matter what (unless she marries Tyrion as she should. Then she would only have to kill Cersei and Jamie).

 

[Koopa]

If Dany feels she need to pay some debts, the biggest debtor is most definitely the Lion, Stark and Baratheon rose up in 'righteous rebellion', what the lions did however was low and beneath the belt, not only that, they murdered the whole lot besides rhaegar bassically. the whole thing in itself is a prove of the vileness and low cunning of the Lions

 

[AryaUnderfoot]

Also she may have to cater to allies once she's back in, and there's a lot of personal bitterness that could force her to seek vengeance for political reasons.

Everything that happened was Aerys' fault. He was cruel, despicable, and completely insane. It would behoove Dany to learn from his mistakes and not wreak vengeance on everyone who was involved in the rebellion. I recognize that some people's betrayal went to the extreme, and justice would be important, but if she takes it too far she'll just feed the bad image that Aerys helped to create for his family.

 

[Boaz]

Dany's emergence, in AGOT, from the protective shelter of Illyrio Mopatis and from Viserys' physical and emotional domination allowed her to start to see people and events from a broader perspective. Ser Jorah was very instrumental in her maturation from a child to an adult. And once she was free from Viserys, Dany quickly realized that Viserys was a worse human being than he was a brother... and that he'd have forced his subjects into constant rebellion if he'd ever managed to gain the Iron Throne.

It would behoove Dany to learn from his mistakes and not wreak vengeance on everyone who was involved in the rebellion.

Iirc, no one has yet told her the truth about her father. From Barristan she's learning about Rhaegar's intelligence, bravery, and nobility. She knows Viserys was cruel and stupid. So what does she think of her father? Does she think he was socially and psychologically between her brothers? Does she think he was just like Rhaegar? Will she accept the truth about Aerys II?

Remember Jaime's memory of Aerys raping Rhaella? Didn't she leave immediately for Dragonstone? So was that Dany's conception? What would she do if someone told her that story?

 

[Wil]

Everything that happened was Aerys' fault. He was cruel, despicable, and completely insane. It would behoove Dany to learn from his mistakes and not wreak vengeance on everyone who was involved in the rebellion. I recognize that some people's betrayal went to the extreme, and justice would be important, but if she takes it too far she'll just feed the bad image that Aerys helped to create for his family.

I agree with your opinion. I was talking politics though, not justice. Politics is about doing what you have to in order to get allies, not what you should do morally or justly. George is very aware of this in his writting. Some of his characters do the right thing (and usually get killed for it) while others do what they have to for politics. This is one of the things that most attracts me to his writting. Many other writters have the good guys/heroes/protagonists doing "what they should do morally" with no apparent awareness or regards to the reality of politics or power. To me this rings naive or false. GM doesn't make this mistake.

I think GM has written Dae in the middle. She's done things she's had to and things based on morals or feelings. In each case though she's tried to be "just," even if she's had to harsh. She's always been aware of the politics of the situation. This means she can go either way. I can't wait to see how it turns out in the West.

 

[Koopa]

this probably has nothing to do with the topic or where it leading to atm, but i was just thinking about Tyrion and his dragon dreams, now at one point he said the big one Balerion could eat him whole (he could step inside his mouth completely), now Martin has said some favourite characters were going to die, now i know Tyrion got friends through varys and Mopatis and so on, still i can't shake the idea of Tyrion eventually getting eaten by Drogon.

That would be a nice alternate explanation about his dragon dreams, i know its a longshot, and it is not likely to happen, yet the idea remains seething in my mind

 

[Jaqen VM]

this probably has nothing to do with the topic or where it leading to atm, but i was just thinking about Tyrion and his dragon dreams, now at one point he said the big one Balerion could eat him whole (he could step inside his mouth completely), now Martin has said some favourite characters were going to die, now i know Tyrion got friends through varys and Mopatis and so on, still i can't shake the idea of Tyrion eventually getting eaten by Drogon.

That would be a nice alternate explanation about his dragon dreams, i know its a longshot, and it is not likely to happen, yet the idea remains seething in my mind

Very possible, I was kinda thinking though this was more of a representation of the dragon eating the lion and destroying house Lannister.

It very well could be a premonition of whats to come physically though..maybe both

Now...what if Tyrion actually BECOMES a dragon? That would be nice imo also Too bad he really didnt have a tail (or was it removed) when he was born....

I hope the little guy lands on his feet regardless.

VM