Horcruxes. The remaining.

[Barristan]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone else notice in GOF, when Harrys parents came out of Voldes Wand, it was the wrong way round! Lily was supposed to have died last, yet its James who emerges first. This indicates that it must be significant in what order they died.

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

 

[Alia]

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

I say it's not Harry but rather the scar!

And I didn't notice that about the Lilly and James... I'll have to check that out.

 

[chump]

Slightly off topic, but did anyone else notice in GOF, when Harrys parents came out of Voldes Wand, it was the wrong way round! Lily was supposed to have died last, yet its James who emerges first. This indicates that it must be significant in what order they died.

2nd, Harry is no horcrux! No way, not ever!

I noticed that as well but I just assumed it was a mistake but it could have some sort of significance.

 

[MJRevell]

It's a mistake - it has been taken out of recent versions; i think only the people who got the first publications will see that curious incident.

 

[Paradox 99]

It's a mistake - it has been taken out of recent versions; i think only the people who got the first publications will see that curious incident.

Hehe, there's a problem. That isn't the only slip up.
I still think Harry or the scar is the horcrux - it just fits in too well with the story overall and JKR's plans for the last book.
Though I love orionsixwing's idea, I think that the details might be even more than JKR had thought of! Any elaborate theories we come up with could be flawed simply because the author slipped up somewhere along the way in the plot.

I'm in awe that the same old reason keeps coming up time and again as to why it can't be true about HP being a Horcrux (or his scar). Namely that:

a) The events at Godric's hollow weren't planned by Voldemort and went wrong resulting in his own death.
- we don't have any living witnesses about what happened there - only Voldemort - and he's a liar. The people that come out of the wand give no indication of what actually happened either. We know what Voledmort said he planned to do, but that means squat. His own death may well have been an accident, but we that doesn't mean he didn't succeed in what he set out to do.
b) Voldemort wants Harry dead.
He was expected to want to kill Harry because of the prophecy, so he had to make it look that way. If he made it obvious that he needed HP alive, it would be extremely suspicious - people would soon have worked it out. It would be the ultimate egotistical stunt to turn the object of your demise into the object that keeps you secure. Basically, he spat in the face of prophecy by killing Harry's parents specifically to use the living Harry Potter as the vehicle for his own soul. That's why Harry shares so many of Voldemort's attributes. But the message of HP all along is that it's your decisions that make you good or bad, not your attributes.

The bit from OOTP could go to demonstrate that Voldemort does actually think the HP is a bit too dangerous now and has changed his plans.

 

[Joel007]

I always thought the message was you can rely on friends more than cronies...

 

[orionsixwings]

Yeah it's me who the hell are you?

NARYA!

That is my final word on that subject and will only discuss what who the horcruxes actually

Thank you for bringing up the subject of horcruxes again orionsixwings. That was good cause I was getting side-tracked.

This is my thoughts on Harry getting killed.

He and Voldie fight and they both get hit with so many spells each that they have basicly no life left. With his remaining strength Harry stands up and says a spell (not sure what) and kills Voldie. Next thing we know Harry's lying on his back with hardly any life and Ginny comes out of nowhere and hugs Harry. He says a final good bye and dies leaving all his belongings to the Weasleys.

Well, as for your final word on Harry not being a Horcrux --- You don't know that either. Your guess is as good as ours.

Harry's Scar is Horcrux <<=== that's my guess.

 

[orionsixwings]

I think one of the horcruxes could be the Mirror of Erised. In it's description, we see "two, clawed feet" - despite it not concretely saying it is Ravenclaws, i think we can assume that it is. Voldemort will have seen his hearts desire in it; known it is Ravenclaws, and an item of immense magical power - the two main ingredients we have seen him seek previously. Dumbledore figured out how to hide a stone in it - perhaps Voldy hid some soul in there too? Just an idea.

Good idea! I never thought of that! Yeah, it could be a Ravenclaw item indeed! Although Voldemort was able to get close to the Mirror of Erised in PS/SS and there was no sign that he has ever seen before that time. But yeah, it is a possibility.

I would like to see this interview stating that Harry will die. I think it is a possibility that he will die, but there is no doubt in my mind that Voldemort will be vanquished. If Harry needs to kill himself to kill Voldemort, who will finish the Dark Lord? Snape? Wormtail? It would be interesting to see.

Just google it. It is also logical for JK to kill off her main character since she just planned on writing 7 HP books -- no more after that. If there is no Harry Potter, then you cannot make MORE Harry Potter books. Logical.

Harry's scar cannot be a horcrux: it was not there prior to Voldemorts attempt at killing him; Voldemort cannot have known about the scar when he did/if he did the necessary horcrux spell.

IF Harry is a horcrux, it will be Harry, not the scar.

Ahhh the halfling theory! Yes, this was discussed before I think the North tower of mugglenet.com.

What i find interesting, is that we have yet to see what happens to a living horcrux when the soul is destroyed. When Harry inevitably destroys Nagine, or the soul in her, will the snake survive? Will this then mean that, IF, Harry is a horcrux, he can remove the soul and survive?

that is assuming Nagini is a Horcrux. This was not set in stone in HBP. Just another thing thrown in to confuse the readers.

I like that you pointed out the dementors - though i doubt a dementor will kiss Harry. But what if it is a dementor that kisses Voldemort, sucking out the last of his soul fragments?

They won't do that. Remember they work for him. They would not hesitate to do that to Harry though.

Either way, i'm inclined to believe Harry is not a horcrux until someone can come up with a convincing argument.

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinions. And since all of these are guesses, everyone's guess is as good as the other unless of course based on the previous books the idea is too far-fetched.

Also, i don't think he will die - although that belief will no doubt be squashed if someone can find a link to the interview where JK supposedly tells us he will. If such a thing exists.

"Oh yes, by the way, Harry will die in book 7. Have fun, now kids!"

Well, she actually did say that. And why not? It's an infallable plotline - all successful stories with heroes always have the hero end-up dead or alone.

I say it's not Harry but rather the scar!

And I didn't notice that about the Lilly and James... I'll have to check that out.

I agree about the SCAR. Glad to see someone with the same idea.

As for the Lily and James in the film, it was not incorrect since only two small white bulbs came out of Voldemort's wand. Yes, James animated first but that doesn't mean that he came out of the wand first.

Joel007][/B]
Harry as a horcrux wouldn't work, as Voldemort would have to have deliberately done it, and he killed himself trying to kill harry.
Horcruxes can't be made accidentally, if they were, there would be a lot more of them...

And no one can survive the Killing Curse either. This is a world of Magic --- anything is possible.

 

[orionsixwings]

can someone delete this too. Thank you.

 

[orionsixwings]

can someone delete this post please. thank you,

 

[Majimaune]

Oh hey Narya. I sort of stole your thread from TTF. But you can only blame yourself for me being here. You gave me the link.
Sorry about that shouting thing but I was pissed off at myself really because I have lines to learn and their just not sticking in my head.

I never thought of the Mirror of Erised of be Ravenclaw's thing. But I don't think it holds one of the horcruxes. Reasons:

1. It's in Hogwarts
2. If a horcrux was in there why would Quirillmort want to destroy the thing unless Quirillmort is really Quirill who didnt know.
3. I cant think of a third
4. Oh no yes I can. Voldy would have had to make the horcrux in his seventh and final year at Hogwarts so as to have a horcrux there.

Thats all.

 

[MJRevell]

Orionsixwings, you posted the interview yourself - and nowhere in it does it say that Harry will die.

As far as the witnesses of Godrics Hollow, one thing we do know is that Dumbledore was very clear on what went down there.. he seemed to know an awful lot.

Could Godric's Hollow have actually been Dumbledore's house, that he offered the Potters as protection? Since it is a very good chance that Dumbledore was Gryffindors heir, it would make sense for him to live in Godric's Hollow. I can't remember whether that was the name of a street, or an individual house or whatever though.

Perhaps he learnt what happened through legilimency, and obtaining memories, as we have seen him do before - and if that is the case, maybe there were witnesses that we don't know about yet. The death eaters were almost certainly there, even ifr they were told to wait outside - could Snape have told him? Either way, i think we can be fairly sure of what happened there. Voldemort went in, killed James, killed Lily, tried to kill Harry and failed. The only evidence to oppose this is your idea that Voldemort is lying - and it's true, he is a liar - but it's still just a theory, whereas we have been presented with evidence of what happened, whether through Dumbledore, through Harry's flashbacks, or, whether for good or bad, Voldy himself.

Every time i see the argument that it wasn't Voldemorts intention to kill Harry, or that he intentionally wanted to make him a Horcrux... it just seems so optimistic, so unlikely. The argument is that Voldmeort went to Godrics Hollow with the intention of making Harry a horcrux, not to kill him - but now, he has changed his mind and wants him dead? He knew of the prophecy before he attempted Harry's murder; knew that this child has the power to defeat him. We are lead to believe that he went there to kill him, but you say Volde was thinking 'ah, if i put this bit of soul in him, he wont be able to kill me, because A, i have a horcrux in him, so i can rise again, and B, he will have to die before i can die.' The flaw in this is that Voldemort cast a killing curse at Harry. You wouldn't devise such a crafty plan just to go and kill him.

Throughout the first 5 books, Voldemort has wanted Harry killed. The only time we know this has changed, is in HBP, when Snape reminds the death eaters that "Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!"

This quote can be taken a number of ways. Indeed, perhaps Voldemort, by now, has actually discovered that by some freak of nature he made Harry a horcrux (he was inside his body in the ministry - did he realise, when he possessed him in OoTP?) Perhaps he simply wants to be the one who kills him once and for all? We have seen him say pretty much the same thing in GoF, when it is clear he wants Harry dead: "Do nothing!"

But even as i write this post, i noticed that indivudual word.. "Potter belongs to the Dark Lord". I don't even subscribe to this theory that Harry is a Horcrux - but that word 'belongs' can have many meanings, and is an interesting choice, no? People don't belong to other people. Items belong to other people. Horcruxes.. belong to other people?

 

[orionsixwings]

Orionsixwings, you posted the interview yourself - and nowhere in it does it say that Harry will die.

I believe it was in BOLD LETTERS. But here it is for your benefit

"So it will end with me, and after I'm dead and gone they won't be able to bring back the character'" -- JK ROWLING.

She will only write 7 BOOKs. So she is going to kill Harry so it will end with just 7.

As far as the witnesses of Godrics Hollow, one thing we do know is that Dumbledore was very clear on what went down there.. he seemed to know an awful lot.

Could Godric's Hollow have actually been Dumbledore's house, that he offered the Potters as protection? Since it is a very good chance that Dumbledore was Gryffindors heir, it would make sense for him to live in Godric's Hollow. I can't remember whether that was the name of a street, or an individual house or whatever though.

Perhaps he learnt what happened through legilimency, and obtaining memories, as we have seen him do before - and if that is the case, maybe there were witnesses that we don't know about yet. The death eaters were almost certainly there, even ifr they were told to wait outside - could Snape have told him? Either way, i think we can be fairly sure of what happened there. Voldemort went in, killed James, killed Lily, tried to kill Harry and failed. The only evidence to oppose this is your idea that Voldemort is lying - and it's true, he is a liar - but it's still just a theory, whereas we have been presented with evidence of what happened, whether through Dumbledore, through Harry's flashbacks, or, whether for good or bad, Voldy himself.

Every time i see the argument that it wasn't Voldemorts intention to kill Harry, or that he intentionally wanted to make him a Horcrux... it just seems so optimistic, so unlikely. The argument is that Voldmeort went to Godrics Hollow with the intention of making Harry a horcrux, not to kill him - but now, he has changed his mind and wants him dead? He knew of the prophecy before he attempted Harry's murder; knew that this child has the power to defeat him. We are lead to believe that he went there to kill him, but you say Volde was thinking 'ah, if i put this bit of soul in him, he wont be able to kill me, because A, i have a horcrux in him, so i can rise again, and B, he will have to die before i can die.' The flaw in this is that Voldemort cast a killing curse at Harry. You wouldn't devise such a crafty plan just to go and kill him.

Throughout the first 5 books, Voldemort has wanted Harry killed. The only time we know this has changed, is in HBP, when Snape reminds the death eaters that "Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!"

This quote can be taken a number of ways. Indeed, perhaps Voldemort, by now, has actually discovered that by some freak of nature he made Harry a horcrux (he was inside his body in the ministry - did he realise, when he possessed him in OoTP?) Perhaps he simply wants to be the one who kills him once and for all? We have seen him say pretty much the same thing in GoF, when it is clear he wants Harry dead: "Do nothing!"

But even as i write this post, i noticed that indivudual word.. "Potter belongs to the Dark Lord". I don't even subscribe to this theory that Harry is a Horcrux - but that word 'belongs' can have many meanings, and is an interesting choice, no? People don't belong to other people. Items belong to other people. Horcruxes.. belong to other people?

You really don't get it do you? *sigh*

Let me explain in plainer words. Voldemort NEVER wanted to make a Horcrux out of Harry. He wanted to use Harry's death to seal the spell to make his last Horcrux. He ALSO did not want to kill Lily, and this is a fact that has been confirmed since BOOK 1. It was Lily's "Deal" that protected Harry from the Killing Curse. She fooled Voldemort into agreeing to a "binding" magical contract with her. That is why the Killing Curse rebounded to him because in that room HE WAS THE ONLY LIVING THING LEFT TO KILL. Since he wanted to use Harry's death to seal the last Horcrux spell, he has already done the spell before he conjured the killing curse, and since the spell went wayward, so did the Horcrux spell, and instead of Voldemort's soul being encased inside his "planned" Horcrux (which I suspect is his wand because aside from his wand, there is no mention and no sign of him carrying anything with him when he went on the hunt), it is possible that it got encased "elsewhere".

Why? 2 reasons:

1. Hagrid (and possibly Dumbledore) got to that place after the event and if there was something there - something OUT OF THE ORDINARY - They would have noticed.

2. The fact that Harry had the scar is already a clue. His scar is the only one of its kind in History that is why there is no known cure for it and no rational explanation why he has it (they can't even explain properly why he survived the Killing Curse). The Avada Kedavra curse has never been bent the way it did with him - THAT IS WHY HE'S SOOO FAMOUS!

Now, I am not JK Rowling, although, for monetary reasons, I always wish I were, and I know that she is the only one who can say where the other Horcruxes are, but for the purpose of discussion, those are my theories. So, althought it may be possible that I am wrong you can not deny that I can also be right, and unless I see one good reason not to believe I am, I KNOW I AM.

 

[Majimaune]

Let me explain in plainer words. Voldemort NEVER wanted to make a Horcrux out of Harry. He wanted to use Harry's death to seal the spell to make his last Horcrux. He ALSO did not want to kill Lily, and this is a fact that has been confirmed since BOOK 1. It was Lily's "Deal" that protected Harry from the Killing Curse. She fooled Voldemort into agreeing to a "binding" magical contract with her. That is why the Killing Curse rebounded to him because in that room HE WAS THE ONLY LIVING THING LEFT TO KILL. Since he wanted to use Harry's death to seal the last Horcrux spell, he has already done the spell before he conjured the killing curse, and since the spell went wayward, so did the Horcrux spell, and instead of Voldemort's soul being encased inside his "planned" Horcrux (which I suspect is his wand because aside from his wand, there is no mention and no sign of him carrying anything with him when he went on the hunt), it is possible that it got encased "elsewhere".

Can I just say something here. I think your right in all of those things, except one and then I'm not against it. The wand part. Although it might be possible I'm not to sure it could be done. Just some stuff there that if you think about it it's not possibe.

Can I just say something else for all those people who thing Potter's scar is a horcrux. Voldie didn't intend on giving him ANY scar, but intended on killing him. (No arguments to that please). All of you beleivers in HP's scar being a horcrux just got cut down in one sentance. Muahahahahahahahahahaha. (One of you might know that I have an evil laugh. But now all of you know) Muahahahahahahahahahaha!! *cough cough*

 

[MJRevell]

I believe it was in BOLD LETTERS. But here it is for your benefit

"So it will end with me, and after I'm dead and gone they won't be able to bring back the character'" -- JK ROWLING.

She will only write 7 BOOKs. So she is going to kill Harry so it will end with just 7.

So ... where in that quote does it say Harry will die? She was discussing why someone would kill off their leading character, yes, but nowhere, in the entire interview does she say Harry will die.

You really don't get it do you? *sigh*

Let me explain in plainer words. Voldemort NEVER wanted to make a Horcrux out of Harry. He wanted to use Harry's death to seal the spell to make his last Horcrux. He ALSO did not want to kill Lily, and this is a fact that has been confirmed since BOOK 1. It was Lily's "Deal" that protected Harry from the Killing Curse. She fooled Voldemort into agreeing to a "binding" magical contract with her. That is why the Killing Curse rebounded to him because in that room HE WAS THE ONLY LIVING THING LEFT TO KILL. Since he wanted to use Harry's death to seal the last Horcrux spell, he has already done the spell before he conjured the killing curse, and since the spell went wayward, so did the Horcrux spell, and instead of Voldemort's soul being encased inside his "planned" Horcrux (which I suspect is his wand because aside from his wand, there is no mention and no sign of him carrying anything with him when he went on the hunt), it is possible that it got encased "elsewhere".

When did i ever say that he intended to make a horcrux out of Harry? When did i ever say he wanted to kill Lily? And i hope i didn't post any comments that led you to believe i am clueless of the circumstances surrounding Voldemorts initial downfall.

I also believe that he wanted to make a horcrux after killing Harry - however we do not know anything about horcrux spells. How do you know he cast the spell prior to attempting to murder Harry? How do you know killing someone 'seals the deal' so to speak? I would definitely have to disagree with that part: i think he wanted to make a horcrux AFTER killing Harry, as it would be a very significant death for him to create a horcrux with. For all we know, you have to kill first, and horcrux later.

 

[Paradox 99]

Can I just say something else for all those people who thing Potter's scar is a horcrux. Voldie didn't intend on giving him ANY scar, but intended on killing him. (No arguments to that please).

Great slimy bogarts and festering redcaps to that! Why can't we argue? I thought this was a discussion?
(Paradox starts jumping up and down having a crying hissy fit).
Like I said. Do you really really know for sure that he intended to kill Harry that night? I say he didn't - it was all a big deception to throw everyone off the track of his real intention. So there!

 

[jof]

I think that it would really be abit stupid to do that though, because thats one of the only things we KNOW, that would really make a lie out of all of the other books. Youve also got to think that the prophecy dictated that one must die, so i think its only sense that Voldermort went to kill Harry.

EDIT: ARGUEMENTS FTW!!!

 

[MJRevell]

Yeah, arguing is where the fun is at. And while we're talking about horcruxes:

"neither can live while the other survives"

Surely Voldemort could live if Harry is a horcrux. Indeed, the whole point of a horcrux is to live. The only viable option with this entire 'harry is a horcrux' scenario in my opinion, is that somehow, some way Voldemort made a mistake, and mistakingly made Harry a horcrux without even knowing about it. I still think Harry is a horcrux is a very wild theory though - and no more than that.

 

[orionsixwings]

So ... where in that quote does it say Harry will die? She was discussing why someone would kill off their leading character, yes, but nowhere, in the entire interview does she say Harry will die.

Read between the lines, mate.

When did i ever say that he intended to make a horcrux out of Harry? When did i ever say he wanted to kill Lily? And i hope i didn't post any comments that led you to believe i am clueless of the circumstances surrounding Voldemorts initial downfall.

Okay, this I may have misinterpreted, and I'm sorry if I did. I thought you were still hazy with my explanation there.

I also believe that he wanted to make a horcrux after killing Harry - however we do not know anything about horcrux spells.

CORRECT! At last someone who understood the book!

How do you know he cast the spell prior to attempting to murder Harry? How do you know killing someone 'seals the deal' so to speak? I would definitely have to disagree with that part: i think he wanted to make a horcrux AFTER killing Harry, as it would be a very significant death for him to create a horcrux with. For all we know, you have to kill first, and horcrux later.

As for my guess to how the Horcrux sequence is, it's just a guess. So yeah, I could be wrong on that point. Actually, I tried to follow that similar line of thought, that after the Avada Kedavra slices your soul, then you make the Horcrux. However, if we were to follow that sequence, that you kill first, slice your soul, then make a Horcrux, Voldemort would not have 7 but only 6 (I count the one he has.), because after the killing curse killed him, he wouldn't have the chance to make another Horcrux. Also, he would have sliced his soul 3 times that night alone, having killed James, Lily, and then Harry (if this was done succesfully). He has killed more than that before, and according to HBP, when you slice your soul you become lesser and lesser human. The one that rose in GOF, though he looked like a snake, was too human to me, which means, he has not sliced his soul too much yet.

 

[orionsixwings]

I think that it would really be abit stupid to do that though, because thats one of the only things we KNOW, that would really make a lie out of all of the other books. Youve also got to think that the prophecy dictated that one must die, so i think its only sense that Voldermort went to kill Harry.

EDIT: ARGUEMENTS FTW!!!

AGREE!!

I don't get it, why is the thought of Killing Harry such a big deal? It happens all the time. Heroes get killed. Why is there so much hoopla in Harry's death? If he dies, well then good.

I think people are all thinking of these books from Harry's point of view. Try to change your perspective a bit, maybe use Voldemort's just once. If you were this Overlord, and you find out there is this boy who was born to destroy you, what would you do? Befriend him? Make him your ally maybe?

If he was prophesied to kill you, whether he becomes your friend or not, he will eventually kill you (If you succeed in making him your friend, then you'd die by accident. Or he conspires against you and claim the throne that you worked so hard to get.). In any case, YOU DIE. The only logical thing to do, is get rid of him before he has a chance to do you in.

...And while we're talking about horcruxes:

"neither can live while the other survives"

Surely, Voldemort could live if Harry is a horcrux. Indeed, the whole point of a horcrux is to live. The only viable option with this entire 'harry is a horcrux' scenario in my opinion, is that somehow, some way Voldemort made a mistake, and mistakingly made Harry a horcrux without even knowing about it. I still think Harry is a horcrux is a very wild theory though - and no more than that.

But Harry is not his only Horcrux. Voldemort made 7. Even if he kills Harry, he'd still be alive.