H. E.

J

j d worthington

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Well, LMA and I have had a few discussions on the subject, and it's been suggested that I start a thread on Harlan Ellison. I've been holding off a bit because I've been a bit short on time, but mainly because this is a writer who tends to seriously polarize people -- more for the man than the writing, is my considered opinion after many discussions on the subject.

Therefore, I'm throwing this out there, to see if there's enough interest to get a thread going; with one caveat: I'd like for the heated rhetoric to stay outside the door. This may seem an unnecessary stipulation around this place, but, as said, things tend to get rather warm around this one. So ... are enough people interested; and are enough wanting to actually do some meaty discussion, pros and cons, or should we just let this one die at this point?
 
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It's been a while since i've read anything of his. I loved the "Dangerous Visions" collections he edited. Similarly, his story "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" stayed with me forever. What a great cross of sci-fi and horror! I never heard a nice thing about the person, though. But a talented writer, without a doubt.
 
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I'd be interested in listening to a discussion, although I really can't contribute much to it given that the only Ellision work I've read, other than a few stories from assorted collections, is Ellison Wonderland. I thought it was OK, although most of the stories didn't come across as too terrific. I quite liked a movie I saw based on his story, A Boy and his Dog.

But Ellison as a person seems a very interesting and colorful sort, his..erm...interactions with the Star Trek production being rather good entertainment. Stephen King provides a terrific example of that in his book Danse Macabre and of course Ellison himself is hardly recalcitrant about it and a basic search on the internet provides a lot of reading fodder in this vein. Anyway I do hope people start discussing him.
 
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Tau Zero said:
It's been a while since i've read anything of his. I loved the "Dangerous Visions" collections he edited. Similarly, his story "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" stayed with me forever. What a great cross of sci-fi and horror! I never heard a nice thing about the person, though. But a talented writer, without a doubt.
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Yes, Ellison has a reputation, all right. I can't speak for others, but I have encountered him a few times, and my own experience didn't really support the stories. I'll be very brief with this, and just say that, for my part, he was actually very courteous and kind, and it was a pleasure to have met him.

Glad to have you on board, TZ ... and you, too, Ravenus. Ellison Wonderland was one of his earliest collections so, no, most of the stories there were not among his best, though I have high regard for "All the Sounds of Fear" and "In Lonely Lands".

Anyway, thanks for contributing, and I hope it does take off. For now (for a wonder) I'll shut up and let others have their say....
 
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Oh from what I've heard Ellison basically suffers the reputation of being an honest man in an industry that balks at honesty.
 
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That's my impression as well, ravenus. Oh, the man likes to wind people up, and he's very good at it. No doubt about that, especially after hearing him speak a few years ago at LosCon. But I've always been impressed with his quick and witty mind. I think a lot of what is seen as his...how do I put this...his antagonistic streak, is really just his disappointment that more people don't try to live up to their full potential. They're satisfied with "okay"; he isn't, and it seems to bother him when other people are.

I do hope that we can discuss his non-fiction as well as his fiction writing, as I'm partial to his essays. There are two volumes of his criticism, I think taken from a television column he used to write in the Los Angeles Free Press (correct me if I'm wrong on this; I no longer have the books to refer to...wish I could replace them), called The Glass Teat and The Other Glass Teat. Brilliant, brilliant stuff. I've also been known to read the science fiction anthologies he's edited primarily to read his introductions. Not that I don't like his fiction. "When Jefty Was Five" is one of the most amazing short stories I've ever read, and as Tau Zero said, "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" does tend to stay with you once you've read it. Maybe it's the fact that I write more non-fiction than I do fiction, but I just prefer his essays.
 
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ravenus said:
I quite liked a movie I saw based on his story, A Boy and his Dog.
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"A Boy and His Dog!" I forgot that that was one of his stories. The movie had a cult status in America for a while, but i think it's being forgotten. I'll have to rent that again. Thanks for reminding me!
 
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He comes across as someone who is a perfectly nice guy, witty and charming, until you cross him. Then all hell breaks loose.

I do think it's funny the way he revels in the The Last Dangerous Visions controversy though.
 
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HMM..OK time to plead ignorance.

I've heard of Ellison but don't recall reading anything by this author. Anyone care to assist a fellow in literary distress by sugesting a good starting point?..:eek:
 
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I read A Boy and His Dog and was facinated by it. Some what better than the movie because of the implication of the ending. I've been storing Again, Dangerous Visions on my bookshelves since I bought and read it 30 years ago. I have a copy of his City on the Edge of Forever script that was published in book form several years ago. I didn't finish it mostly because I hate script format and find it too disruptive to read. I read enough to see what the controversy was about. My problem here is with his nitpicking with detail on something fundamentally wrong. He felt the Star Trek episode should be more realistic with the drug use. I sit today as a disheartened 53 year old knowing the the whole concept is fantasy. The better world concept won't happen because of the motivations of human beings. People with money and power generally won't make something wonderful happen (like space flight) unless there is finacial motivation. We have developed computers and cell phones and lots of other technology because there was money in it. Because of this the bottom line is the the Star Trek world where there is no money and technology is available for everybody and hunger and disease have been conquered won't happen within the politcal structures of the human beings of planet Earth as we know it. Mr Ellison felt that his script where drug use was rampant amoung the Enterprise crew was more relavent and should have been the one filmed. I contend that the Star Trek world is fantasy as is anyway and in a world that bright and beautiful maybe drug use doen't exist. I'm curious as to how Mr. Ellison feels about this subject 40 years later.

Aside to JD. You're right. He does definitely engender opinions.
 
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The books of Ellison's that I've read are Strange Wine which I remember finding engrossing but it's been so long since I've read it that a lot of details are lost (except for the abortion story).

I've also read Deathbird Stories which I know I own but I can't find it at the moment. I've not really followed Ellison's career so don't know much about controversy. I just know I've liked what I have read.

Interesting FYI (I hope it'll be interesting to you) but the story I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream was made into a computer (adventure) game that you can still buy from Ellison's website.
 
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I've read his Angry Candy and I picked that up because I recognised the line from the E.E. Cummings poem The Cambridge Ladies Who Live In Furnished Souls. It made me curious about the contents and the cover had these very innocent looking pastle coloured heart shaped candy neatly arranged in rows.

The book was very alluring and I ended up staying awake all night to finish it. In the end it is about exploring the pain and loss that comes with death, most specifically the death of loved ones. These stories reach out from the page, wrap their fingers about your heart, and squeeze, alternately leaving you swimming in the memories of those lost to you or laughing from sheer brilliant absurdity.

My favourites were Paladin of the Last Hour; Footsteps; Broken Glass; On The Slab; Soft Monkey; Stuffing; The Avenger of Death; The Function of Dream Sleep.

Take Footsteps as an example. On the face of it, there would appear to be nothing very special at all. Werewoman meets plantman but Ellison's language and turn of phrase make it a joy to read. We follow Claire through the lanes nd alleys of Paris and watch as she treats Parisians like the best of haute-cuisine and you smehow find yourself understanding and sympathising with her despite all the atrocities. This is a different kind of love story. One which has monsters and a degree of madness and yet, you cannot help but appreciate it.

I would like to read more of Ellison and to be part of a discussion about his writings. I'd be doing a whole lot more listening than anything else since I have not read much of his work at all. However, Ellison is someone I would like to know better.
 
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The one time I met him, he was polite and friendly as I blithered about one of his pieces that I was teaching. I remember telling him about an unpleasant reaction and a confusion one of my students had in reading the piece, and he didn't blast me or the student; he just laughed.
 
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Personal favourites - Jefty is Five, Paladin of the Lost Hour and Deathbird Stories. The man is a genius when it comes to putting words on paper. And a staunch supporter of writers and writers rights.

My friend sold his first ever story to Asimovs and H.E. telephoned him when he saw it in the mag to congratulate him on becoming a professional writer. A very nice, passionate guy.
 
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Well, since I found these out there, thought I'd give this thread a bump, and see if anyone was interested:

Deep Shag Records - Harlan Ellison

Now, I've only heard volume one of these, and that was very enjoyable, and very pointed. I'm going to have to pick up the set now, I'm afraid. Anyone who hasn't heard Ellison doing public speaking is in for a treat... very good at it, he is, as well as a fine writer. Acerbic, yes. But very, very good.
 
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The three CDs arrived today; I've been listening to the first one -- first time I've heard this in nearly 20 years, and -- even with the ephemera included for chuckles -- it holds up quite well. I'll pass on the reaction to the other two later.....
 
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Well, I never did get around to my reaction to the others, did I?... Oh, the brain is gone, gone, gone.....:eek:

*ahem* The other two entries are a bit less mixed than the first, though still having a variety of material. Nothing quite as long as two of the pieces on the first, but they each contain both serious and humorous material, and are enjoyable and interesting. I wouldn't recommend doing all three at once, but for those who enjoy hearing someone who is an excellent raconteur, these are definitely worth a try....

Also, in looking up information on the Rotsler book Addy mentioned, I found a listing of upcoming things by/about Ellison that may interest some of you:

Harlan Ellison / Islets of Langerhans
 
Re: H.e.

Having met the man, talked with him at great length and having read a large portion of his output in the past I'd certainly be up for this.

My personal take on Ellison reflect's LMA's: he's a thoroughly intelligent, decent man of integrity living in the midst of a cesspool writhing with venal, mendacious jackanapes. Of course, it might help his situation if he moved out of the Los Angeles metropolitan area . . . .

Polemics aside, he's a major figure in the genre and the fact that he doesn't have his own section here on the Chronic constitutes a grave injustice. J.D., how does one go about setting up an author's section?
 
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Curt Chiarelli said:
Polemics aside, he's a major figure in the genre and the fact that he doesn't have his own section here on the Chronic constitutes a grave injustice. J.D., how does one go about setting up an author's section?
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This is one of those things that comes up quite frequently. You have to have at least five active threads on any author for them to merit their own subforum. We've had attempts on plenty of deserving writers (such as, most recently, C. S. Lewis), but if the interest isn't there to keep discussion going, then it won't happen....

My suggestion is to begin a thread or two discussing some aspect of Ellison's work, whether it be particular types of tales, certain themes, what you'd say different periods were in his career, etc., and see how they fly....
 
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