You know your a DJ whumpper when....

Daniel

Some of that is the way they write the scripts [gotta have some sort of 'tension' and hurt/comfort is the fastest and easiest to show and resolve in a tight time frame] and some of that has grown out of fan perception to where a lot of folks feels that's the way it has to be.

I don't belong to the latter group.
 
Since this discussion opened I have watched episodes very carefully, and in the UK Sky One are showing the series from Season One onwards every night at 6 pm at the same time as it airs Season 5 for the first time on a Wednesday night. So I have been observing Daniel specifically (something I wouldn't ordinarily do so sharply).

I don't think that Daniel DOES ask to be whumped at all. I think that he is in character with an academic civilian, who is trying to fit in with a primarily military and therefore roughie toughie team! At first he's unfamiliar with the jargon, the way of life, the weapons and the military discipline. Part of him will always belong to the 'eyes wide open', amazed and fascinated world to which he belonged. Most archaeologists I've met have an absolute wide eyed passion about the sites they disinter and the artifacts they find. To most folk they would just be old places where people used to live...and old bits and pieces they used to use. I've seen people shake their heads over the enthusiasm displayed over one small shard of pottery.

I can understand it, even though I am not an archaeologist, because I am a student of life, past and present...it has always fascinated me. To those archaeologists and anthropologists, these old places and old bits of rubbish hold the key to the way we used to live at a certain point in time and may even point the way to where we might be heading. So they appear wide eyed and innocent.

Just imagine how this guy feels when he's faced with artifacts and architecture sometimes in mint condition on another planet. So he would never lose that enthusiasm it's part of who and what he is.

This wide eyed thing he has is accentuated by the almost blase, 'been there and done that' attitude of Jack, the more precisely scientific physicist/military officer Sam (by nature a more precise science than archaeology, although she can be as enthusiastic about her own field as he is in his!) and of course Teal'c who is just plain warrior. Of course he's going to seem weaker...

But I still maintain that this whumping thing is a perception which has to an extent been encouraged a little by a couple of the Stargate writers who seem to have wanted to portray Daniel as a needy character. Of course, it might well be that all they were trying to portray is both the differences and the affectionate bond which has grown between members of the group.

I don't think many of the fans wanted Daniel to 'grow up', but he has had to...


;) :cool:
 
Growing up

I agree. And he has, if you follow the psych. progression from S1 through, as you have. And now, in S6, it's seems to be time for him to walk on a different path.

And that's also a part of growth and change.

Now, I'm not going to say I won't miss 'Daniel' - all the 'Daniels' I've seen through each stage of his growth and development, but the 'man' had got to live his own life.

Change may suck, but that's life. I'm actually looking forard to how they [the series] handle it all.
 
Re: Moving...

Originally posted by Rowan
I'm sure JD could, by I'm curious why you think we're off topic here?

{I'd move it, but I'm not this thread's mod....}
Click to expand...


not that it's off topic - it's just that the discussion has developed more depth than the thread title would indicate. i almost missed it because of that.
 
I agree that without fandom DJ probably wouldn't have such a reputation as being 'weak' or 'needy.' But I don't think there's too much of a deal about it. Fanfic is by it's very nature free for whatever interpretation of the show you care to give, being extreme showing D/J D/S J/S J/J T/S... there are so many relationship combinations in fandom which cannot all be canon anyway.. but could theoretically I suppose be possible.

When you have so many people just writing (and a lot of them really are raw newbies and didn't go thinking 'What would Jack do/say/think here' they put what they WANT him to do/say/think/feel/be or what the storyline demands. [I do this and cop-out with it not being THEM...]) there just isn't a consensus and never will be in fanfic. The characters differ according to the writer a great deal too... in one H/C fic Daniel can be a pathetic wimp needing saving AGAIN or he can be something USED (sometimes by the bad guys or sometimes by just the writer) to get to his team. When it's taken to the 'Why did I let them do that to Daniel' or 'Why is it always him...' I feel it is a diffeent matter. But then I will and have read stories in all the categories/genres whatever... and sometimes I can stomach this type or that and sometimes I can't... All depending.

People don't always try and stick true to the show and the fact sometimes doesn't even occur to people that you can, but that doesn't make it any less a good story. For those people who like that kinda thing... sure!

As to the WHY certain people write certain ways... Well. God knows why I have my own peculiarities but I do.

I sure as hell do not have a lot of the experience of a lot of the people out there. My only military experience is the pathetic 2 yrs I spent in the ACF which practically means I know how to strip clean and assemble an LSW and I can throw a few handsignals in... I don't know how much it helped. A lot of peopel don't even have the rudimentaries of military style that I have and I wonder how much different my writing would have been had I not had it, aside from lacking a few terms maybe which end up the Anglicised ones anyway. I so easily could write differently and know this. The first peopel I came into contact with and read stories of in SG fanfic- before finding Helio even- all belong to the H/C list (not mentioning names) and I was told by oen after reading my first one that I probably 'belonged to H/C' even though that tentative attempt ended up whumping Jack and Sam mainly, having the hint bewteen them and some inkling of a strong Jack/Daniel friendship. The next one was probably a little more influenced, but I stil lended up whumping Jack and having Daniel do his best to help out...

*I* don't even knwo what I am or what I write or why. And I think about it too much and stil ldon't know. After being told that writing angst was bad... that threw me... oh and many people say I don't even do H/C but A/A and then others say I DO do angst and then.... So I just don't bother anymore. it's not like there's a huge problem if I go out of canon, or the characters arent' WHOLLY sticking to themselves... It's not like I'm getting paid for it!

So I don't think that labels realyl work too well. There are some absolutely dire H/C out there, alongside some really great ones. One of my favourites and one of the earliest I read is H/C but not the tried and tested kind... a lot Angsty and it did make me cry when i read it. But there are conventions even in shipper/het... really the best stories aren't classifiable ones. They may have elements of all of them in them.. but are just good stories, regardless of canon or not.

And as for 'does Daniel ask to be whumped?' I reckon no more than the next man. Just look at Teal'c... wouldn't he be asking for it by always being assumed he can cope? What if sometime he couldn't? Wouldn't that slight vulnerability be just as easy to play on? It's stereotyping is all. And I've probably made no sense but hey. I'm not feelign well so Can I Be Excused Miss?;)
 
writing

It's a given that people, on the whole, write what they want to see and/or read. Some want pathetic, some want storng, some have no clue. That's the fun of reading fan fic. It's also like any other reading. You find the suthors you like and read their stuff. If one of them says they like another author, you go check them out. A friend recommends something and you go on from there.


Newer writers [either newer to the fandom or newer to writing] tend to take more shortcuts which, in turn, can put a good idea out in a poorly written format. We all learn. Writing is a craft like any other. Some are better than others. Some can learn, others can't.

Each person will see Daniel in their own light. I know I do, and some of it depends on which season I writing in and what I'm writing about.

Viva la difference.:p
 
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