5.13: Proving Ground

[Anni]

Dave...... you may need read the posting again... I didn't say that the show should be without the characters. In fact I said they were necessary.

What I am actually saying is that the characters should be the vehicle which drives the concept and not BE the concept.

What is there about that idea that is so hard to understand?

Whether or not it's called SG1..... or SG485..... it was still based on the premise that the Stargate unlocked the way to mysteries that man has been querying since first crawling out of the bloody cave. This exploration and querying of origins and mysteries has since been buried in amongst whether Sam has a private life or whether Jack and she are going to get it on at some stage.

Yes, you have to have some sort of interaction between all character. But why do we have to lose the other in order to do it?

And why.....oh why...... does everyone persist in this idea that I believe the show should just consist of a huge Stargate in the middle of a set, shown in camera angles from all around?

Jeez guys.... please read what I am saying... I am saying that Stargate has crossed the line from being a well done show which in corporates all aspects to a space soap opera which is just the daily lives of a SG team surrounded by sometimes rather badly thought out scripts.

We could have a nice balance.... something which has apparently escaped the Stargate production people....

..... and most of the fans it seems too!

 

[Dave]

Well maybe it's just because I don't agree with you!

You've made you point, I do understand it, but I don't think they have crossed 'the line'.

And I realise that some fans do count how many times Jack innocently touched Sam this week, or how many times they made eye contact, but do you seriously believe that they write the story any differently because of that.

 

[Anni]

No I don't suppose they do, but they do suck on continuity and the direction in which the series is going.

And I don't suppose they particularly care whether one middleaged grandmother from England thinks they have crossed the line....

You guys are all the Stargate guru's.... I'm just a disappointed viewer...

*shrug* I would guess you all know better than me.... I want the show to entertain me.... and I'm afraid that the relationships between the SG1 members alone just doesn't do it for me. All I get is irritated because I want to know why we have abandoned the Stargate, exploration of other worlds and ancient civilations and turned the Goa'uld into the local pantomime act.... not to mention doing remakes of the old 'asteroid is going to hit earth' chestnut.

I think it's a fairly reasonable point to make. But hey..... let's by all means stick with the earth based conspiracies.... and the NID (NSA)..... if it keeps the fans happy!

I can turn over.... and do. The other night I even went out, against doctor's orders, to a Christmas function.... and I drank too much (a BIG no when you're having chemotherapy!) instead of staying in to watch Fail Safe. And by the sounds of things, I missed very little. What the hell..... I can wait until the re-runs.



:evil:

 

[Dave]

I'm not a Stargate guru!

And I give up now! You obviously feel very, very strongly about it! Why don't YOU write to them? They might even listen!

 

[Dave]

PS: Did you realise SKY ONE repeat it at 1.00am.? I videoed it last week and watched it when I got in. After it finished I turned the video off, and it was still on! It took me awhile to work out why!

 

[Anni]

Umm...... did, but didn't get a reply.... And before anyone says anything, I was polite. Merely pointed out that they appeared to have got lost along the way.

Why do you give up? Surely you're not giving up because I can't make myself love the characters of SG1 just to please everyone else? We each have our own opinion and tastes.

I put my opinion forward, you offer an argument based on yours, the world continues to go around. How boring it would be if we all thought alike.



Come to think of it...... constantly trying to put my point forward in the face of all of the hero worship is becoming boring and rather pointless.

I think I'll just keep my mouth shut in future.

:dead:

 

[Dave]

I give up simply because we aren't ever going to agree! and because you are on a mission, and I'm not really bothered.

I agree with you about some of the storylines, I've agreed with you before, and others have too, so no problem there.

But I just don't agree that they have done too much character building stories, I think that they have the mix exactly right. I wanted to know where Sam lived, why is that a problem? I don't want Sam and Jack to ever get together because it will spoil an important interaction between the characters, and would be out of character anyway.

There would be political implications if the Gate existed, and that would impact on the use of the Gate. Thus the Russian, Pentagon and NID themes are there.

But, while I agree, the earlier season's stories were better, having an alien and planet of the week, every week, would get boring too.

It's a pity they didn't reply to you, even an acknowledgement! I once wrote to Jeri Taylor about Voyager, while she didn't really answer my question, at least she did answer me.

 

[Anni]

Dave....... I mean this very nicely, but please DON'T EVER tell me what my motivations for an opinion are. If I was on a mission, I would be posting here all the time..... instead, for the past few weeks I have been undergoing some rather horrific treatment for cancer and feeling too ill to care about Stargate or anything else other than whether I survive or not.

You know nothing about me. Nothing at all including what I care about, which isn't a TV show, believe me. If I am on a mission about anything, it is to the MOD to find out why they have allowed their sick Gulf War veterans to die by the wayside without offering them any kind of medical help and why when our GP's ask for information, they are told it's classified, even when that information could help save lives and needless suffering (such as I am enduring at present). In this year alone six of my previously healthy fit young Gulf War colleagues have died, and still the MOD deny us because now it has become a matter of not wanting to pay us money-grubbing, workshy veterans compensation for damage done to us by the medication, exposure to Toxic and carcinogenic fumes, Depleted Uranium and drugs we should never have been given. It certainly looks as though I might be number seven. So please excuse me for coming onto these forums and desperately trying to distract myself by being interested in something other than death or dying.

Realistically? I couldn't really give a toss whether every single reference to Stargate was obliterated from the face of the world and the recordings of the episodes along with it. I don't watch it religiously and I do not watch it for every little single nuance of the show.

Please don't get me mixed up with those who do.

I know it gets repeated by the way, but to be honest, I didn't particularly care to sit up and watch it at that time. I was tired and feeling not too well (Self inflicted of course because I had the utter gall to want to enjoy myself for an evening), so I went to bed. I can live without Stargate every single day...... trust me.

I didn't expect an answer, I think that the production people are too interested in being treated like 'gods' at conventions than they are answering intelligent questions from genuinely interested admirers of the show.

Well there you are... my two pence worth. And now, I need to go and talk to god on the big white telephone.

That'll teach me to eat.....and get myself upset.... won't it?

 

[Anni]

Pay me no attention...... I am tired, sick and scared to death (literally!).

Stargate or anything else holds no fascination for me at present. My arguments are simply me struggling to distract myself and failing miserably. But I have no right to inflict it on others.

Stop the world, I want to get off!

LOL........ or a sarcophagus would do nicely.... or even one of them thar healing devices.

God, I wish!

 

[skydiver]

okaaayyy.

sorry to hear you're having a tough time anni. easy for me to say, hard for you to do but hang in there ok?

on the topic of proving grounds. i've only seen it once, and in squinty vision at that but...anyone think of the nice fat plot bunny they've handed us? sg- 1 and apparantly all the other teams take turns vetting a group of cadets to see who gets into the sgc...and as such are runnign around play acting bad guys and shooting each other with ihntars...sounds like prime mary sue time if that's your bag.
or a simple way to have an au fic without it being au...war games in the trees anyone?
or how about siler? how does he feel having to clean up the messes and re secure all the doors jack burned his way through?

personally i think it would have been a bit more realistic if they did like prodigy, took a new recruit or two through the gate and realy got into trouble but heck i'm not writing it.
and i can't think of a better way for simmons to get a mole into the sgc than to get a recruit or three of his own in there.

i was sorta hoping this would be like the tng eps lower levels which has always been a fav of mine. it's a whole eps from the pov of the trainees...they had a good spportunity but didnt take that road.

i am curious as to why kerrigan got let into the game. in prodigy he had no idea what was going on in the mountain, now he and george are gambling buddies?

 

[ShelbyS]

Whoa, okay everyone, let's all take a deep breath and chill...

 

[Anni]

Skydiver, thank you for your kind support..... I will not forget it......and your comments on the episode. I guess Mary Sue time mustn't be my bag..... I would prefer for the writers and producers to not insult my intelligence by presenting a situation which is unrealistic to say the least and then going on at everybody about how close to reality they make every episode, even to the extent of having a USAF adviser. Which training camp did he do his training at I wonder?

And yes, there were a lot of 'plot holes' Kerrigan was just one of them. His jokey conversation with Hammond was far too pat and comfortable. All of a sudden there seem to be a whole host of people, other than the President, the NID and the Joint Chiefs who know about the Stargate. Now there is also a whole group of raw cadets with NO military experience other than basic training, most of whom seem to be the biggest, loudmouthed bunch I have ever seen in my entire life. And for once I agreed with something Jack said...... "Major, I was NEVER that young."

Shelby? Nobody is getting aggravated in the sense that they need to 'chill'..... Dave wasn't losing his temper, I merely reacted badly, which unfortunately is a symptom of being afraid and very tired and in a lot of pain.

'Chilling' is not an option in my life at present. Unless of course, it will be in my coffin. Then I imagine I will be very 'chilled'. Neither, by the way, is taking deep breaths. Unfortunately I have small cell lung cancer which makes taking deep breaths a rather painful exercise. And just in case you were wondering, I have never smoked in my entire life. I have never even lit up a cigarette for anyone else.

But if you have a few suggestions as to how I might achieve the 'chilling and the deep breaths' under the circumstances then I would be more than willing to listen.

 

[skydiver]

in a chat mallozzi did say we would be seeing two of the cadets again. elliot is an obvious yes i believe, and i have a bad feeling the other will be hailey. if for no other reason than i really don't care for her.

me thinks this supports the 'setting up' reason for the eps. sorta like not many folks like secrets but it lays the gruondwork for most of season 3 &4 and beyond wtih the harcesis adn tokra

 

[Dave]

Anni- I never meant to upset you, or even to presume your motives. I'm very sorry to hear about your illness, and I'm not at all upset with you.

On Stargate, I really do understand what you are talking about, I just don't personally have a problem with the way it is. And I like the characters, which I guess makes a big difference as you said that you don't.

And no, I don't know you at all, but I do think that you care about Stargate more than you would admit.

Can we still be friends?

Skydiver- This was a 'setting up' episode as you say. Is it too early to be setting up characters for 'Stargate: Atlantis'?

now a little off topic:

Anni- have you had an bad experience with the producers at a convention. You seem to speak with some authority about them wanting to be treated like 'Gods' at conventions. I only ask because I haven't been to one, but I have read that the actors and producers in American shows say that they prefer British audiences. We ask more intelligent questions, see them as actors and not the characters, and don't treat them like 'gods'.

They really should listen to people like you, if they want to keep the show going.

I think they should listen to the 'obsessives' too though, ultimately we are the customers paying their wages (but they wouldn't see it that way.)

And to digress even further, I don't think there is anything wrong with being obsessed by something. It is my sincere personal opinion that everybody SHOULD be obsessed about something. For some people it is football or a sport, for others it's their work or studies, others their children, others a hobby, a book or a TV programme. Being animated and getting excited about something is what life is all about.

ShelbyS- So, let's not have a deep breath and chill, lets have some more discussions like this. It is possible to do that without getting aggravated.

 

[skydiver]

i've never spoken personally with any of the producers but i can say from how they acted on the stage at gatecon they were very open and welcoming. i remember brad wright breaking the 'danny isn't coming back news' which i THINK everyone else knew but wouldn't say until he did. he also remarked on joe mallozzi 'leaking it to the net' so they know that joe talks to us. in fact i fully expect him to pop up in chats sometime after last stand airs...he tends to pop up after the 'big' eps.

as to the intelligent questins....well someone kept asking the boxers or briefs question at gatecon..it was funny the first couple of time but by sunday even the fen were tired of it.
they did ask us what we'd like, no promise made of course. i seem to recall the wish list consisting of

blooper tapes, sam & teal'c actually talking to each other, will sam ever get a boy friend that lives past the credits, major davis to go through the gate (which we didn't get to see but it happened!!!), same with gary jones' character whose name keeps changing, and i'm sure there was more but it was months ago.

the producers and the stars were very open adn friendly to the fans...which had to take a bit of bravery. i mean if you saw the auction and what happened there

i'm sure they had rationale behind their more earth bound seasons...and i guess that rationale will present itself sometime in the next 30 eps or so.

i know i do miss the 'alien of the week' show but i also know from 7 long, long years of voyager that it does get old. i think they're setting things up for the sgc to eventually be fighting a war on two fronts, out in space and at home but again that's a theory that only time will tell.

 

[Anni]

Dave ....now worries me dear, life is too short to be cross with people!!!

Bravery...... or just a large fee? Hmmmm...... Seems to me it took bravery to bloody well get there in the first place given the circumstances, and that was the attendees not the guests. I refuse pointblank to treat the actors and production people as anything other than human beings or attribute them with any kind of extra big haloes just because they attended a convention with us fanatics.

I thought the writers etc weren't so much gracious as rather patronising. But that's just my opinion which is valid of course, but probably not the general opinion. I didn't get a chance to ask them anything at all as I was one of the great unwashed hordes at the back and when I put my hand up the Gatecon staff ignored me and went to someone who wanted to know something really fascinating like whether they wore boxers or briefs <grin>and I may be doing them an injustice because most of the questions asked WERE banal and ridiculous, so they may have felt patronising by the time the Q & A finished.

I've discovered that very few people on any of the forums and lists will say anything even vaguely negative about this show, and I know that a lot of that has to do with the reactions from a certain rather rabid collection of fans who react aggressively when you do.

Not that I am speaking of anyone who has posted on this thread you understand.

BTW Dave..... we never weren't friends me duck...... I might argue and have opinions that don't gel with the general view of things, but the one thing I CAN honestly say for myself is that I'm not afraid to air them and I do it honestly and upfront......what I say, is what I mean....what you see is what you get. But I NEVER hold grudges or let the sun go down on an argument of any kind.

Of course I like Stargate, I wouldn't watch it otherwise. But I don't like the four principal characters at all. I think they are entirely unlikeable and their personalities jar with me for some reason. If I was to feel comfortable with any of the characters, then Dr Frasier, General Hammond, Jacob and Major Davies are the ones I feel okay about. The others just really grip me in the unmentionables, every time I see them I just want to grab them and put them in a real military situation preferably with live ammunition. They really irritate me. And yet, during the very first few episodes, I didn't mind them at all. Wasn't desperately enthusiastic, but found them tolerable. The hysterical ramblings and hero worship of many of the fans has only served to increase my irritation. It's almost as though they've attained sainthood...every word hung on.....every action minutely examined and pondered over and talked about, again and again..................and again.............and again..........

Is it any wonder that the actual episode and the concept itself gets lost in the morass?

I just want a nice balance....... is it too much to ask do you think?

<sigh>

 

[skydiver]

i know i tried to come up with some good questions....i just never could think of any. i mean i think you do reach a point in the fandom when you know they don't read fanfic(or really aren't supposed to), you've heard the behind the scnes for this episode or why that episode was shot that way....and there just isn't a lot left to ask that doesn't stray into personal areas.

at least noone seemed to stray into the 'will youhave kids' and the such like they did in 2000. it can be hard to balance a desire to know something with the propreity NOT to ask prying questions.

after seeing how some of the actors stuggled up on the stage i hope theypair them up next year. awkward silences aren't so bad if tehy have another person or two to play off of

 

[entity]

carter+leutant elliot

i was just curius but does ne1 else think theres something going on between carter and elliot cos he always looks at her with a smile and like he likes her or maybe it's just respect but i think he fancies her. and carter doesn't realize this though or maybe she does i'm not sure. but if u've seen the summit

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i hope that woz enough notice but when elliots lying on the floor (with lantesh in him) carter caresses his face now i don't know whether it's just me but she normally wouldn't do that.


please repley

this is the first time i've done this hope it's ok

 

[Anni]

You did fine...... and since Summit was the eppy after this one on Sky One, it didn't hurt to put the spoiler warning in, just in case someone may have not wanted a hint of what might happen in Summit.

I noticed that too by the way, but I thought it was more an affectionate thing, possibly because of Elliott's age than anything else!

 

[skydiver]

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i interpreted sam's gesture as leaning towards lantash who is now in elliot (does this kid have a first name???) and also, if there' s anyone in the universe that knows how it feels to get blended against your will, it's her.

at first i think her reaching out to elliot is sort of a 'i know what i'ts like to be the new kid on the block' sort of empathy. i mean jack and mansfield were....so wonderfully gruff

then you get her trapped in a room with two dead people and a kid who ends up with lantash in him....she is SO not having a good day. he's scared, so is she i'll betcha (if she's sane she's scared) and they're the only two (or three) alive folks around.