Gates - all in contact?

[PTeppic]

Define self-contained. Do you mean the beam can actually guide itself to an astral position in space (i.e. a gate) based only on the alleged position... and then return if no such gate exists?

 

[shu_hunter]

what if
when a gate is dailed a signal only goes to THAT REGION of space. If they get an answering signal, then a wormhole is established.
Wouldin't it be possible for aliens smart enough to build the stargates to make it able to focus an instantaneous signal?

~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}

Or
when the first glyph is dailed a message goes out only to the stargates that the first glyph corresponds with, and all the others know not to have anything to do with that signal. Then when the second glyph is dailed, all the gates that dln't have that chevron in it ignores the signal and so forth until a point is reached in space. If there's no stargate there, nothing happens(busy signal), but if there is a wormhole is established.
That would require a network, but what if (hehe I have no idea what I'm talking about) The gates all have a connrction to subspace 24-7. That way one gate could respond to another instantaneously...........

I lost myself.

~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

That isn't a bad idea. A process of elimination. on the first gyph a lot of gates are counted out becuae they don't have that glyph and so on until the 7 th chevron when by rights only one gate should respond with either a busy signal or a connection but it is still based on a signal going out to all gates.

Gypsy

 

[PTeppic]

Has some good points.

But, do the gates actually "know" their own glyph sequence, or are they checked each call? Remember that it changes with expanding universe, so does need to be re-confirmed intermittently. Also theoretically possible that two glyph sequences (using entirely different glyphs) could hit the same spot in space.

The number of combinations is in the billions. Incidentally, each glyph individually could not be used to rule out application to any one gate: it would take the second glyph in each pair.

Question: we know the glyphs operate in pairs - do we know the order in which they are transmitted. I guess we ASSUME that they go in order to make pairs, rather than say, all three first glyphs, then all the second ones.

Finally, although not necessarily significant, what about the overhead of actively engaging each gate in the protocol on a counting-down scenario as suggested. Imagine how many gates there, to go with the number of valid combinations (mostly depends on where the actual constellations are). I would imagine, and suggest, that the preferred protocol would only involve each gate checking once that the "wormhole request" message is addressed to it (completely), rather than up to six times during the dialling sequence. For every single wormhole dialling!!

 

[PTeppic]

Ignoring the cell part of the system, I would imagine that cell-phones are the best analogy for the gates.

The dialling gate makes up an address, valid or not, and transmits it globally. All the gates receive it once, and check to see if it is addressed to them. In the phones they have a SIM with the valid address, the gates can "look" at the stars using some advanced sensor to see what their own "current" address is. IF valid they can then respond. Theoretically the design of the system and the positioning of th gates means only one gate is present. If there is more than one, problems ensue (e.g. "Watergate").

 

[Tiberius]

Nice theory. What would happen if you dialed coordinates where no planet nor any Chappa'ai existed?

 

[PTeppic]

Exactly the same as if there were two (or more) equally usable gates, the gate was already in use etc... the 7th chevron would not lock.

It is impossible that all the billions of combinations are valid as gate addresses (e.g. parallel lines, rather than intercepting). Therefore the system must be designed to work with sequences of glyphs which go nowhere. Not completing the dialling sequence (i.e. not locking the 7th chevron) would be the perfect solution all round.

 

[Tiberius]

I agree with Shu_hunter, but there is one thing that bothers me. The whole thing about the gates knowing their own address. What if they don't know their own address, but every other gate does? Like, I don't know my name, but I know PTeppic's, Gypsy's, etc.? THey would know my name, but not their own. Therefore, all of the gates would have to be in contact at all times, but I still think that shu_hunter and I have it. I tell the Chappa'ai "Here are the coordinates, dial here." They dial there, and if no contact is made, the 7th (or 8th) Glyph locks. That would be the simplest theory. When I type in the address to this webpage, what would be the logic in my browser contacting EVERY SINGLE WEBPAGE ON THE INTERNET, when it could go directly to the webpage I requested? I think the Internet is a better anology. An address is required for both. Pick away.

 

[shazstar]

Hey wow I found this thread again I had forgotten about it!

What if....(sorry to steal your line shu_hunter!)

What if each gate, when dialling an address, sends out a pulse some kind of signal which reaches all gates in the vicinity the address implies, (i.e 7 chevrons, 8 chevrons, see the 9th chevron thread) and the signal is a kind of code, similar to the binary codes of a computer system, in other words a form of communication through numbers. What I am getting at is each address is like a 'binary' code and only the recieving gate is can fit that code and thus engage. The main point I am trying to advocate here is the use of codes or universal communication in the gate system. We know there is some kind of basic codes used in goald and galactic technology, we see that in episodes such as

Spoiler

"The Torment of Tantulus", and "The Serpents Venom"

and countless others I can't recall right now. Is it possible for the gate, using this kind of communication, and also elimination through glyph sequence, to establish a wormhole with the only corresponding gate that knows the code. And, is one of these 'codes' correspondant to the gate's address? Is it the address only converted to a universally compatabile and recognisable, or at least universally recognised within the gate system?

Anyway. I got lost somewhere there. Sorry if you did too.

 

[Tiberius]

It would have to be, I think, but that doesn't explain if they are all in contact or not. I doubt that they could all be in contact at all times.

 

[shazstar]

yeah but what I am saying is, no, not all in contact but perhaps all with operational range dependant recieving equipment? So, for the Earth gate we have a certain range of addresses available using 7 glyphs, and to increase the range and therefore intesity of the signals, you would need an 8 or 9th component glyph. And if gate is out of working order OR out of range via stellar drift, then the signal does not reach the reciever and therefore wormhole cannot engage?


Basically I am inferring the existance of a transmedial communication wave, much stronger and faster than a simple electromagnetic pulse, possibly involving the use of quantum particles or antiparticles in its mediation. Maybe a signal through a selective mediam eg. hyper space, or a signal that travels through a another dimension similar to wormhole propagation.

 

[Tiberius]

Where are the Tollans when you need them? They could explain it all. Or the Ancients, Asgard, etc...

 

[PTeppic]

Shazstar,

Yup - (as I put in either this thread or another one) I agree entirely with your idea. For the gate system to work properly, a communication protocol is (almost certainly) needed between the gates, and it would require, as you say, some sort of particle or energy which could travel either through space-time (but faster than currently known EM - e.g. light) or through other dimensions, as per the wormholes.

Whether the gate sends a signal to all, or some, or whatever, I obviously haven't convinced you all yet...

 

[shazstar]

I'm guessing it would send a signal out WITHIN the range of the address, thats what I mean by the chevron thingie, if its a (super cool) 8 glyph address, than the radial reach is most likely significantly larger than your run of the mill 7 glyph address. And if its a 9 chevron, well, much much bigger, possibly big enough to include the time factor/continuon, but thats another thread.

Sorry pteppic.....must have overlooked your explanation earlier in the thread...in any sense...I agree!!!!!!!

 

[Tiberius]

My theory is that it sends some sort of confined, localized communication between the Chappa'ai one is dialing to. However, for all practical purposes, yes, the CHappa'ai must have some sort of communication at all times.

 

[PTeppic]

If it goes to just the destination gate (or its local area) the protocol message must be self-aware and or intelligent - more like a little robot vehicle or perhaps a computer virus.

This requires one of two things:
1 - independent motability (and power source) to travel through the various dimensions, OR,
2 - for an energy type message type, some sort of network, or mechanism for transmitted the message - i.e. something to replace the wires of the internet, with perhaps various nodes (the gates??) for changing path

OR, (da da!)
3 - it goes in all directions, like an EM pulse, to all gates at once, and only the right gate recognises and acts on the message based on some sort of ID in the message "header"

 

[shazstar]

You know your 3 was what I spent half an hour and about half a posting page trying to say before!

I'm in complete agreement with three. Complete agreement. Thats where I was going before but I got distracted by binary codes and chevrons.

And to add further to three, I think that the bigger the destination address (i.e. 7 8 or 9 chevrons) te bigger the range of that pulse and the further the radius. possibly even the stronger the pulse.

 

[Tiberius]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that if one were to send a pulse in all directions, it would require a lot of power, and such a signal would quickly lose its stability and it would degrade to nothing more than background noise, unrecognizable to anyone, as well as a Chappa'ai. Such a waste of energy and quality is not something that I would think a race like the Ancients would do.

 

[PTeppic]

In general terms I would agree - but we don't know how much power is involved.

Given how small the EMF transmitters used by e.g. radio hams can be, that still can transmit all around our planet, it may not actually need much energy to transmit, even across the galaxy, since the transmissions go trans-dimensionally.

Also, at the end of the day, we are talking about transmissions from a Stargate, which utilises so much energy that it can create a stable, artifical wormhole! The transmission power compared to wormhole power must be pretty darned small.

 

[shazstar]

Yep. Agreed.