Gates - all in contact?
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PTeppic
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"Contact" is perhaps too strong a word. As explained in the 1/2/3 message (about 5 ago) the protocol message is probably only transmitted in one of three ways (as listed). So, it is not actually "contact" to all the other gates, but the message is sent, to any gate that can listen (i.e. all of them). Only the one for which it is "addressed" will actually do anything with the response.
Like a radio ham on earth. Dozens of other hams may be listening in to any one specific conversation, but only one person at each end is actually taking part.
Like a radio ham on earth. Dozens of other hams may be listening in to any one specific conversation, but only one person at each end is actually taking part.
Another problem: This communication obviously travels several million times faster than light. Think of the power necessary to maintain that communication at all times. Even if it is sent only when the gate is activated, it is still a considerable drain for... what? What purpose does this power drain have? Also, I would assume that a multi-direction signal would not travel as fast as a single, focused beam, correct? Massive power would be needed just to get it that fast, more than infinite power, I believe...
Remember, its not the same as wormhole connection...the power is not maintained, only a small amount is used to generate a long range message to the other gates. Think of the message as a tennis ball, it is thrown to another gate, while the wormhole is a rope being thrown to the gate. The tennis ball, once launched is a projectile and finishes its own powerless trajectory. All the energy needed is that to send its on its way.
Don't know how good an analogy that was, pteppic is much better at thinking these things up than me.
Don't know how good an analogy that was, pteppic is much better at thinking these things up than me.
OK, that all makes sense. I can find no other way to disprove it. (BTW, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was trying to work out the bugs in the theory). Now it all fits perfectly, except--where is this transmitter? Obviously not in the DHD, that is a control console. And it is not built into the Chappa'ai, that is the transport mechanism... So, is there some sort of wave that is produced before a wormhole activates that can be "sculpted" into the message that is needed to be sent?
PTeppic
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Why isn't it part of the Chappa-ai?
That would seem to be the perfect place - the energy is being stored/channeled within its construction, and the glyph address "data" has been passed there from the DHD (or dialling computer, or manual dial). It also has the "trans-dimension" technology within it to allow the travel, which as discussed above, is probably necessary for communication.
NB. Ditto - all points offered are just my theories. But darned fine ones of course...
:rolly2:
That would seem to be the perfect place - the energy is being stored/channeled within its construction, and the glyph address "data" has been passed there from the DHD (or dialling computer, or manual dial). It also has the "trans-dimension" technology within it to allow the travel, which as discussed above, is probably necessary for communication.
NB. Ditto - all points offered are just my theories. But darned fine ones of course...
:rolly2:Ko'or Oragahn
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Hey, nice question though !
If we look at the movie, they tried many combinations and got stuck.
Why couldn't it work since there are a numerous number of combinations that are effective ?
I guess this because of the DHD.
Maybe the door stores the coordinates of the latest door that was connected to it.
So if Gazi's door was the last one to be connected to the Abydos one and vice versa, that would explain why the first SG team had only the possibility to travel to Abydos and nowhere else.
That would mean that in fact, to get access to the whole network, you need indeed the DHD, not only because it's designed to be used easier as a remote control, but also because it's the only KEY system that gives access to the complete network.
I thin it's the door which has the communication device, but as long as there's no DHD to open the other route, the stargate can only use one stored default route (like a default IP bridge).
That would explain how Daniel was able to dial the Earth from Abydos but couldn't dial another destination without the DHD.
Err... I hope it was understandable. :blush:
If we look at the movie, they tried many combinations and got stuck.
Why couldn't it work since there are a numerous number of combinations that are effective ?
I guess this because of the DHD.
Maybe the door stores the coordinates of the latest door that was connected to it.
So if Gazi's door was the last one to be connected to the Abydos one and vice versa, that would explain why the first SG team had only the possibility to travel to Abydos and nowhere else.
That would mean that in fact, to get access to the whole network, you need indeed the DHD, not only because it's designed to be used easier as a remote control, but also because it's the only KEY system that gives access to the complete network.
I thin it's the door which has the communication device, but as long as there's no DHD to open the other route, the stargate can only use one stored default route (like a default IP bridge).
That would explain how Daniel was able to dial the Earth from Abydos but couldn't dial another destination without the DHD.
Err... I hope it was understandable. :blush:
PTeppic
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Language - no problem there. Your English is pretty much as readable as most other "native" English speakers here.
HOWEVER, technically I think your message is not right. Okay - I think its almost totally wrong.
We have seen many, many examples of using the gate without a DHD. And most weeks this is even done at the SGC with their dialling computer.
The main problem in the movie is actually a MAJOR continuity/theory error. They claim (in the film) that they never figured out the symbol for Earth as the seventh glyph. This is technically utter rubbish. They supposedly had leading PhD scientists and engineers working on the project for a number of years, and they didn't think to try each of the 39 glyphs in turn as a seventh symbol? A ten-year-old could have figured it out! :evil: They even knew they needed a seventh - they readily accepted the theory about six points for destination and one for origin (which itself is flawed, only four are needed but the maths and graphics are much harder to do/draw!), they readily accepted Daniel identifying a seventh symbol without question, and, the dialling computer already had room for a seventh symbol!
A second, but related problem, is that Sam's team tried "hundreds" of combinations of addresses in the year after the mission shown in the film, but before the start of the SG-1 timescale, but couldn't connect to anywhere else.
But, Sam herself (with Daniels idea) gives an explanation in the Abydos map-room in the pilot episode (Children of the Gods).
There are, mathematically, millions (if not billions) of combinations of glyph addresses. However, they only tried a few hundreds. They were just unlucky. Of all the millions of possible combinations, the vast majority simply don't have gates at the address. Like phone numbers - not all are actually in use. Secondly, even if a gate IS present, it may be buried, or already in use - both of which will give the same symptoms - an "engaged" tone, so that the seventh symbol won't engage. Although the stated reason (stellar drift) in the episode would have affected Daniel trying to dial out from Abydos, since the SGC didn't have these addresses, they were not actually affected by it, since any one random address is as likely to be valid as any other.
This is seen specifically in the episode "New Ground", where they consider these previously invalid addresses.
HOWEVER, technically I think your message is not right. Okay - I think its almost totally wrong.
We have seen many, many examples of using the gate without a DHD. And most weeks this is even done at the SGC with their dialling computer.
The main problem in the movie is actually a MAJOR continuity/theory error. They claim (in the film) that they never figured out the symbol for Earth as the seventh glyph. This is technically utter rubbish. They supposedly had leading PhD scientists and engineers working on the project for a number of years, and they didn't think to try each of the 39 glyphs in turn as a seventh symbol? A ten-year-old could have figured it out! :evil: They even knew they needed a seventh - they readily accepted the theory about six points for destination and one for origin (which itself is flawed, only four are needed but the maths and graphics are much harder to do/draw!), they readily accepted Daniel identifying a seventh symbol without question, and, the dialling computer already had room for a seventh symbol!
A second, but related problem, is that Sam's team tried "hundreds" of combinations of addresses in the year after the mission shown in the film, but before the start of the SG-1 timescale, but couldn't connect to anywhere else.
But, Sam herself (with Daniels idea) gives an explanation in the Abydos map-room in the pilot episode (Children of the Gods).
There are, mathematically, millions (if not billions) of combinations of glyph addresses. However, they only tried a few hundreds. They were just unlucky. Of all the millions of possible combinations, the vast majority simply don't have gates at the address. Like phone numbers - not all are actually in use. Secondly, even if a gate IS present, it may be buried, or already in use - both of which will give the same symptoms - an "engaged" tone, so that the seventh symbol won't engage. Although the stated reason (stellar drift) in the episode would have affected Daniel trying to dial out from Abydos, since the SGC didn't have these addresses, they were not actually affected by it, since any one random address is as likely to be valid as any other.
This is seen specifically in the episode "New Ground", where they consider these previously invalid addresses.
Ko'or Oragahn
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Always a pleasure to learn new things.
I'm making theories from what I saw and almost remember.
Err... ok.
Now, I don't know if I agree with the four points only thing.
But there are too much things to say about that and I guess a there's debate already running somehwere about that.
Now, about the stellar drift.
If the drift is proportionate (homothetical ? sp ?), the distance between the points will for sure increase, but the cross point of the three lines will still be the same. But now, I'm not an astrophysic junkie and don't really know if the stars are following some focused lines.
But anyway, I tihnk that the symbols are almost nothing more than a name.
In fact, from what I've read and saw, Daneil's interpratation of the stargate system, though near as logical, could fairly be wrong.
I mean than in fact the stargates were given names made of six constellations that surrounded the planet where they were put, and the seventh sysmbol would be more an identification and almost secure-key symbol.
But hey ! If the symbols seen on most of the gates are in fact constellations that were seen from the Earth, that would mean the gates were first conceived on the Tau'ri homeworld and only then assembled and transported elsewhere !
And except few exceptions were some of the symbols were constellations seen from other places and added after on the other gates, most of them were intended to be used to travel to Earth.
Err...
Time for spoilers...
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The rumors says that the base of the incoming spin-off which is called Stargate : Atlantis will explain that the Ancients were from Earth.
Somehow, this would fix some issues.
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But anyway, I think the constellations as coordinates sucks.
I think these so-called coordinates are basically no more no less than references.
PTeppic
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Four points only? Well, on a 2-dimensional plane (for example a map), you can use two points to produce an intersect, but it would lead to two possible locations. Adding a third line would definitely give a single point on the map. I think you only need to add one more vertex for a 3-dimensional position.
YES, this is discussed at GREAT length in one or two of the other threads, including the maths of how accurate it would need to be (or not), whether the glyphs mean anything, ordering, eight/nine glyphs and so on.
But, yes, they ARE simply references. But so what? It is the same as phone numbers. Phone number 001 is not more important or anything than 005.
Stellar drift, even if it is totally equal, the only place that would not be affected is the exact centre of the universe - it could still use the same co-ordinates as before. Anywhere else, the relative positions of the constellations would mean they would have to use a new set of glyphs. AND (as I have highlighted in other threads) theoretically there will be periods of time where a perfectly working stargate might be cut off from the network because there are no glyphs in alighment to give it a valid address. Conversely, two more more addresses could apply to the same gate. [Both of these are scope for a fan-fic!]
YES, this is discussed at GREAT length in one or two of the other threads, including the maths of how accurate it would need to be (or not), whether the glyphs mean anything, ordering, eight/nine glyphs and so on.
But, yes, they ARE simply references. But so what? It is the same as phone numbers. Phone number 001 is not more important or anything than 005.
Stellar drift, even if it is totally equal, the only place that would not be affected is the exact centre of the universe - it could still use the same co-ordinates as before. Anywhere else, the relative positions of the constellations would mean they would have to use a new set of glyphs. AND (as I have highlighted in other threads) theoretically there will be periods of time where a perfectly working stargate might be cut off from the network because there are no glyphs in alighment to give it a valid address. Conversely, two more more addresses could apply to the same gate. [Both of these are scope for a fan-fic!]
I have heard that there will be a Stargate SG-1 movie coming out!!! YAY! Hey, if you guys want to find another Sci-fi community, go to http://www.scabre.com . And they have forums at www.scabre.com/forums or is it forum...?
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