Immortality, who wants to live forever?

The brain is too complex to understand, if it was simple enough to understand we'd be too stupid to understand it. The mind functions through the brain. I'm talking a brain in operation here, not a random lump of grey matter.
 
Of course, you must know that both the brain and the mind are separate entities. They may look entwined, but in reality, they're not.
 
AHJ87: Metempsychosis, eh? Always been rather fond of that word... Rather thought you meant that sort of thing, but thank you for clarifying. Yes, I'd understood that the meaning (in this thread) had been mundane (or "bodily") immortality....

As for "the mind and brain being separate entities" and "[t]hey may look entwined, but in reality, they're not" -- there, I'd say, you're getting into a very thorny (but fascinating) other argument. All the evidence (as opposed to speculation) that I've seen or heard of, so far indicates that mind is very much a function of the brain; it's that complex structure of neural connections that we develop from the first appearance of the notochord onward; and this certainly seems to be backed by the more recent experiments involving those who were terminally ill (who agreed to have such tests run), which traces pretty well the slow reverse or shutting down of various brain functions as death approaches, with the devolvement of more and more complex processes (and consequent mental activities). I'd say that's got much more likelihood of being what "reality" is (though that word has become increasingly slippery as the significance we assign it alters over time).

However, if you'd like to throw your point up for discussion, it might be better to start a separate thread, rather than getting this one any farther off topic....:)
 
I'm really sorry for driving the topic off track. I never meant for it to go this far, but... oh well. Lol!

Yeah, maybe I'll start a new thread. We can throw tantrums there!

What do ya say?

*Grin*
 
I'm really sorry for driving the topic off track. I never meant for it to go this far, but... oh well. Lol!

Yeah, maybe I'll start a new thread. We can throw tantrums there!

What do ya say?

*Grin*

Personally... I say "go for it!":D (Well, as long as the tantrums are within reason.....):p
 
The idea of immortality may sound appealing to some, but it could be a nightmare for others. One of the benefits of living the life of an immortal is gaining numerous experiences in life. We would become wise beyond our years and take the time to slow down our fast-pace lives, and really enjoy the small things in life. We could have more time to study courses at the university and have the opportunity to visit the entire world at our leisure. However, there are disadvantages to being immortal as well such as becoming lazy, decadent, selfish, and bored. Plus, if everyone on the planet became immortal and continued to procreate, we would have an outrageously serious overpopulation issue to deal with and we already have that problem today! In order for this to work, only a selected few should be chosen to be immortal, that is, if these particular individuals wished to. And this will keep the population in check too. I think what will eventually happen is people in the future will live several centuries, possibly ranging from 300 to 700 years old. For this work, we would have to do one of two things: either drastically reduce our procreation, or venture out into space and populate other planets and moons. I address this in my developing science fiction story and explore the implications of a society that has a lifespan consisting of many centuries. :)
 
No, not I, I get bored very easily, attention span of a goldfish, etc, plus knowing my luck my pc would break, which would lead to me not being to upload my creative zen vision m, or to charge it, I would then be music free and living forever, nope, I am happy to go when my time comes.

Here's to your next life everyone...
 
I think immortality is an impossibility, but I'd gladly live a thousand years. When life extension becomes an option (and I believe it should happen within my lifetime), I'll definitely go for it.
 
I'm really sorry for driving the topic off track. I never meant for it to go this far, but... oh well. Lol!

Yeah, maybe I'll start a new thread. We can throw tantrums there!

What do ya say?

*Grin*

Did this new thread ever get started? Because I think the subject is fascinating.
 
Just discovered this thread! How did it take me so long?!

I think that although immortality is a tempting idea from an academic point of view, from a psychological point of view it would be a nightmare.
Yes, you would be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear of time. You could learn all there is to be learned, see all there is to see, and do all there is to do. It would be brilliant and never ending so long as nothing else got in the way.
Unfortunately, human nature would be the one thing that did get in the way. The need for our own space would drive us out to the stars, fragmenting our culture, rather than integrating to mutual benefit.
There would, of course, be people who would not choose to live forever, and people that would feel pressured into taking that option. For those that chose immortality, there would be an elitist sensibility amongst some. The 'mortals' would be regarded as inferior in some regards.
Of course, relationships between the mortals and immortals would be virtually impossible due to a degree of emotional attachment. Could you watch someone you were friends with or loved grow old and die, whilst you stayed youthful? This was brought up in Highlander and shows that even after hundreds of years of this pattern, it doesn't get any easier.

So, if immortality was a choice, you would end up with a galaxy full of fragmented, tormented societies that would rather they hadn't chosen a tormented existence.
 
So, if immortality was a choice, you would end up with a galaxy full of fragmented, tormented societies that would rather they hadn't chosen a tormented existence.

As if that isn't what we have now.
 
"So, if immortality was a choice, you would end up with a galaxy full of fragmented, tormented societies that would rather they hadn't chosen a tormented existence." Dr Jackson

It's the use of the word "would" that gets me here. How could you possibly know?
 
"So, if immortality was a choice, you would end up with a galaxy full of fragmented, tormented societies that would rather they hadn't chosen a tormented existence." Dr Jackson

It's the use of the word "would" that gets me here. How could you possibly know?

You may have a point there, AVS... I think "would most likely" may be more accurate, and I'd base that on the evidence that, even with radical changes in society, and in longevity, basic human nature doesn't change much, and hasn't for the past 5000 years or more; we still carry around one heck of a lot of our progenitor's inherited instincts, and those tend to override our rationality at the drop of a hat....
 
My take is that along with immortality would come medical and science advances. This would allow us to manipulate brain function(memory,suppress the emotions or unwanted primeval drives). It would allow us to modify our bodies. Wouldn't immortality combined with science lead to virtual godhood?
Read the Boat of a Million Years - by Poul Anderson. It's a book that follows immortals from the time of Christ to our present time and on into the future.
 
I'm afraid that I find the idea of repressing our most basic instincts (which is a good part of what makes us so bellicose) rather untenable, for several reasons. Our brains evolved this way over a very long period of time, and most of the more ancient mechanisms have a survival potential necessary to the brain's basic functioning and development. To interfere with that is to stunt proper development at various stages, leading to serious imbalances. More, perhaps, than any other field of medicine, this is the one that deals with the most delicate aspects of biochemistry and genetics, and also with those the most finely calibrated and most easily distorted or damaged. This being the case, I rather doubt we'd see such advances for a very, very long time; and in the meantime the road toward such advances is likely to be so packed with botches that there's going to have to be an overriding concern obvious to the majority of people with any voice, politically speaking, for the necessary research and experimentation to be continued; otherwise, the backlash (as it will inevitably have a high human cost) is likely to be abrupt and permanent. No, I'm afraid we human beings are a damned long way from being capable of even virtual godhood.

There is also the other side of the coin: such artificial alterations in our most basic mental/emotional life would, quite literally, mean we would no longer be recognizably human, but something other. I'm afraid that there aren't that many who would be willing to take that chance on losing the things we hold most dear, the things that do make us uniquely us, in order to achieve a possible outcome of the type you describe -- I doubt the majority, when really faced with such a choice (rather than a speculation on such) would even do so if it were a certainty, let alone anything less. And would you really want to suppress the emotions? Remember, no emotion exists in vacuo; they are all so intertwined as to compose such a complex knot as would make the Gordian example appear as a 5-year-old child's puzzle in comparison. Such things as love/hate/affection/aesthetic appreciation/anger/joy/hope/dreams/etc. are all so closely related, and so inextricably intertwined, that even the tiniest alteration in one is quite likely to affect or diminish them all; and the outcome of that is much more likely to have disastrous effects than otherwise (the chances of the outcome being beneficial being in the statistical minority). It is likely to increase the incidence of neuroses and psychoses, of sociopaths, etc., because the brain (and its product, the mind) is not only the most delicate aspect of the human organism, but also the most individual organically and electrobiochemically (as is shown by the incidence of harmful effects of various psychotropic pharmaceuticals on various portions of the populace -- look at the varied effects of the same antidepressants on even genetically-close relatives, for example); we would be dealing with statistical averages, rather than individual minds, or else we would have an ever-proliferating number of techniques and treatments tailor-made for each individual, which would simply become too costly to support, and too fraught with dangers should the tailoring be off by even the tiniest scintilla. And that's not even addressing the effect of such altering the emotional makeup on family life and children, or even child-rearing (if it were only done for the adults, so that the children's brains could mature and develop naturally; as delicate as the adult brain is, the developing brain of a child is a billionfold more complex, because any alteration of circumstances exterior or interior can so alter the neural pathways being created at any point).

This is something we may one day achieve, but it is likely to be very, very far in the future because of the nature of the thing. More than anything else, the interdependence of brain function and mental/emotional life, personality, etc., approach the uncertainty limit (not that they work in quite the same way, or should be seen as similar in physical properties, but rather that the uniqueness of each brain is similar in difficulty in regard to certainty of effect of any action on its functioning where the complex known as personality is concerned), and this raises the risk factors astronomically. It is one thing to medicate those who have obvious mental/emotional problems that make it difficult for them to function daily; it is quite another thing to take a "normally" healthy brain and alter its functioning for such an uncertain and nebulous posited future result.

Also... what are we, as individuals, if not our memories, hopes, dreams, aspirations, emotions? Pure intellect is a very cold thing; pleasurable only because it is tied in with our thalamus and reinforced by those brain chemicals which give us a sense of well-being and pleasure when it is being exercised in its purest (achievable) form. Suppression of memories is, again, an extremely delicate thing. Certainly, we nearly all have some memories we'd prefer to eliminate ... but eliminating that particular portion of a neural web without affecting those we wouldn't wish to disturb or alter is quite another. The "primeval drives" are also what drive us to achieve when circumstances around us seem overwhelming; those drives that push us toward aggression are what keep us afloat in such situations. Let's face it, the complexities of the brain-functions that produce the mind are such that we are more likely to understand the deepest complexities of the exterior universe itself long before we sort all that lot; certainly before we would be anywhere near having enough information to achieve the delicacy of touch necessary for what your post proposes.
 
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There is also the other side of the coin: such artificial alterations in our most basic mental/emotional life would, quite literally, mean we would no longer be recognizably human, but something other. I'm afraid that there aren't that many who would be willing to take that chance on losing the things we hold most dear, the things that do make us uniquely us, in order to achieve a possible outcome of the type you describe...

This is an interesting comment and is the subject of the novel I've written. It may just be that sentience, as a device of natural evolution, allows a species to take the "next step," a step that environmental evolution can not take since it can never "wipe" the slate clean. And, as the old saying goes, the "success" of such a step depends very heavily on the details of how it's implemented and the anticipation of the reaction of those that "like it the way it is."
 
It may just be that sentience, as a device of natural evolution, allows a species to take the "next step," a step that environmental evolution can not take since it can never "wipe" the slate clean.

You do realize that you've just crossed the boundry from science into religion? "Next step" assumes a pattern of development rather than random chance. It has the idea that there is something better or greater that needs to be accomplished to fulfill a kind of destiny.
 
would anyone seriously want to live forever with the same politicians running the country not me. beam me up scotty
 
You do realize that you've just crossed the boundry from science into religion? "Next step" assumes a pattern of development rather than random chance. It has the idea that there is something better or greater that needs to be accomplished to fulfill a kind of destiny.

Interpretation is in the eye of the interpreter. I try not to anthropomorphize reality. Destiny, in the human sense, may in reality, have no objective meaning. What was destiny before there were people on Earth (which was about 99.9% of the time) or after we are gone? No, "next step" refers to the fact that the universe is in "motion." The next step could be no step for us--don't know. Since we have no real understanding of "time" or how the objective world works, destiny, to me, has no meaning. Motion, however, does have meaning--it means things change in "time."

Although in the "subjective sense," I agree with you. We can have a vision for ourselves. And we can use the tools that we have, i.e. our minds, to try to accomplish those goals. But this has nothing more to do than with a particular species, on a little planet, trying to "fulfill" a subjective vision.
 
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Burrow down into the earth. Capture the energy of the inner core and use it to launch an entire civilization to the stars!
 

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