Sansa Player in training or pawn

I dreaded reading Sansa's pov's at first, but it seems like Martin is grooming her to become a significant character by the end of the story. Her pov's are gradually getting more interesting, even if the interest is driven by another person. The transition seems to be smooth though as I didn't notice I was enjoying some of her pov's until A Storm of Swords. She seems to be heading in the direction of the character you hate at first, but start to gradually root for, whether you realize it or not.
 
The only two i truly liked so far was when she built Winterfell and the wildfire part with ser Gregor.

I hated the ending of that chapter though, she kissing Petyr, I made Petyr a funny charachter seem a bit too creepy
 
Welcome! No, I don't remember them... what is their significance?

Ston, I'll try to be more ridiculous in the future.

Aegon, Eyrie. Imo, Brynden is cut from the same cloth that Ned, Robb, Jaime, Mace and all the other warriors of the realm, unlike Petyr. Pros for Brynden's regency of the Vale: He's not ambitious, he's loyal, he'll do his duty without personal gain. Cons: He's not of the Vale, the Vale lords know he's a nobleman but so are they and they think they can do the job just as good as Brynden.

Brynden as Regent will be just like Ned as Hand. Ser Rodrik's words when Catelyn took Tyrion hostage show how these honorable warriors think. Rodrik said something like, "I'll thank you all to not say anything about what you've seen here." He expected the people there to see the moral high ground of the Starks and to respect that. Ned expected Petyr, Cersei, Pycelle, and Renly to always seek to do the right thing even if costs them.

Petyr knows how to reward people. He motivates them with tangible ways to improve their socio-political standings. If Brynden tries to deal with Petyr using the same methods that Ned used, I think the result will be the same. I think Ser Lyn would rather take the chance to kill Brynden for Littlefinger's rewards than serve Brynden for nothing.

What awaits the Blackfish in the Vale? At best a cold shoulder, at worst death.

Brynden must go to the heart of Stark power to raise them back up. That means the North.

He'll make a call for fealty. He'll call upon the love the northern lords have for the Starks. He'll say how just they were compared to the Boltons, the Lannisters, the Greyjoys, and all the rest. He'll say how only the Starks can hold together a united North to resist southern dominance.

Robb rose up against his rightful king. He declared independence. He did this for what reason? Glory? Revenge? Freedom?

Roose Bolton rose up against his rightful king. He took over his king's lands. He made himself the new lord of the north. Why? Honor? Glory? Power? It was just there for the taking? It's in his nature to be a backstabber?

How is Roose different from Robb? Robb's father was unjustly killed by the Lannisters. So Robb seceded. Robb lost the Freys and dishonored all his lords by breaking his sacred vow. Roose put an end to the war and regained his honor by taking the north from Robb. Note that Roose had the blessing of the rightful king for his undertaking... he was merely re-establishing royal authority in rebellious lands.

Now as for Sansa... she saw into Littlefinger's machinations regarding Lord Nestor Royce and Ser Lyn Corbray. She's coming along. But taking apart an engine and building your own from scratch are two different things. She'll soon be taking a more active role in Littlefinger's ploys and con games, but it'll be a while before she's ready to devolp and hatch her own plots in the grander politcal game.
 
Boaz, the three hungry knights importance was the fact that the Mad Mouse was one of them.

As for the Robb and Roose part, there are many interprations possible depending on the viewpoint.
 
Boaz, werent you one of the ones arguing against Brynden heading north originally? Bahahahah....maybe I converted you.

You forgot to mention that Brynden is Robert Arryns closest living relative, with no possibility of producing off-spring himself. Assuming the nobles are reasonably loyal to Jon's memory but ambitious themselves I should think Brynden would be the only man present they could possibly agree on. I dont have the time to type out an opus like you did detailing why, so suffice it to say thats what I think.

I think Ned gets a bum rap. He understood Petyr to be treacherous, heck he thought everyone was dirty....he just didnt know how treacherous. He didnt have the "creative malevolence" neccessary to think like they did. Sure its one thing to understand someone will betray you, its quite another to imagine the how and put a stop to it before it starts. Ned couldnt do that. And as for Ser Rodrick, well lets just say that I found that part kind of endearing.

Roose on the other hand....yes you can make that interpretation and if Roose has a hand in the history books, Im sure thats what will get written down. Except that had Robb not lost the Freys like he did, and the Karstarks for that matter...I am absolutely positive Roose would not have switched sides. So he betrayed one side, then betrayed the other....and will likely betray again if the tide turns.
 
Boaz: sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. You would certainly make a good case for the Blackfish. Maybe you can be the Mouth of Brynden. ;)
 
I think that she's obviously going to become more important as things progress, but a player? Hardly. The thing is, she has power over -THE- player (Littlefinger) and he's clearly been pretty much blinded by her transformation from naive little princess into savvy Stark lady. She certainly now possesses a talent for deception, and if she ever finds out that Littlefinger had a hand in her fathers death, may use her new found skills to eliminate the said player. She's his one weakness, and I think, his downfall, too.
 
Yes, agree with Gazz to a certain extent as I have slightly higher hopes for dear Sansa.

Littlefinger's luck will eventually run out. How does that saying go: what goes around, comes around...
 
The thing is, she has power over -THE- player (Littlefinger) and he's clearly been pretty much blinded by her transformation from naive little princess into savvy Stark lady.
That's fairly well put... except that the pretty much takes away from the clearly been... but the succinct phrase she has power over -THE- player sums up the belief of what we want and what we see that Martin has given us.

Perhaps. I'm not sure now that Martin will put Baelish completely under Sansa's spell. Think about it, Littlefinger overcame or outlasted Ned, Catelyn, Robb, King Robert, Jon Arryn, Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei, Varys, Pycelle, Stannis, and Renly... and now he's gonna get his from the dumbest of the Starks (notably, not the most astute House)?

Maybe stringing Sansa along and punishing her as a mature woman will give Littlefinger that much more revenge and joy...
 
If the dire-wolf connection is as important as it seems to be, with Lady dead Sansa is a dead girl walking... only a matter of time. Imo
 
If the dire-wolf connection is as important as it seems to be, with Lady dead Sansa is a dead girl walking... only a matter of time. Imo

But there hasn't been a case thus far of a dire-wolf dying, followed by their human, as such. We know the wolves tend not to out-live their humans, but IIRC Robb was dead before Grey Wind was pumped full of arrows.
I can see why a wolf would pine and waste away on the loss of it's warged companion, but I think humans are strong enough to overcome the grief, and it's not really much in the way of an 'omen'.
 
Ive always felt the wolves represent the inner Stark....their sense of self that allows them to be foci for the various plotlines around them. Lady's death has resulted in Sansa seeming directionlessness.

Lets be honest the Stark children are becoming exceptional. Although they may or may not have shown great promise as children, as adults they defy what promise they had. You think Ned told himself "Robb is ready to lead men to victories in battle, inpsiring them to fight daunting odds against seasoned commanders." Did he know Arya can not only travel across a wartorn countryside and evade capture, but overthrow a lord and escape notice from people who should recognize her along the way?

With that being said, I dont think its Sansa's fault she's a vapid waste of brain matter but if you think however smitten Petyr is going to let that little tart have an easy victory.....well you dont know Petyr. Sansa may be his undoing, but shes going have to figure a lot of stuff out between now and then.
 
With that being said, I dont think its Sansa's fault she's a vapid waste of brain matter but if you think however smitten Petyr is going to let that little tart have an easy victory.....well you dont know Petyr. Sansa may be his undoing, but shes going have to figure a lot of stuff out between now and then.

Right now, I don't see Petyr as feeling even remotely threatened by Sansa - and whilst I'm not discounting it, I don't see Petyr as leading up to an elaborate and ironic vengeance upon her either. Sure, he'd push her out the window himself if he needed to, but how much more satisfying to bring her to feel (some sort of) love and trust in him, educate her just enough to hold her own (whilst still bringing all her knowledge to him for advice) and then place her in a position of moderate power, knowing he can rely on her to protect him and further his interests?
Classic grooming process. Right now, I'd also say it's in her best interests to go along with it. He's a helluva player and she'd be wise to keep him on her side.
 
Well, Petyr is a man after all and when a man thinks with the wrong head, his judgement can become somewhat clouded. Even a supposed 'mastermind' like Littlefinger.
 

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