Harry Potter sucks

[mirinda]

not necessarily, do you have anything good to add??

 

[Ellie]

I have purposely not read any HP books as I could then turn round and say that I hadn't pinched anything from her. Funnily enough, though, my son, who has read a couple of them, told me I should as it seems some of her stuff HAS crept into my writing - weird that! I reckon it must be a virus! However, she has done remarkably well and many of my friends read and re-read her stuff - so it can't be all bad! Reckon it's like everything else - we all have different tastes and some of us could eat chocolate till we burst while others hate the stuff (not met many of them, though). Hmm, talking about chocolate ...

Considering that quite abit of what she's written about is standard fantasy archtypes and myths it would be hard to keep it out of anyones writing- whether you've read the books or not.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the series quite abit- but the fact is that it's quite the standard Joseph Campbell plot. The hero orphaned, a wise old mentor, an evil foe, the comedy side kick. etc, throw in all the unicorns, castles and dragons, and tell me who hasn't written about them.
What I'm thinking is happening right now is that alot of children have been raised on Harry Potter and think that this is all straight from her own imagination, when in fact most of it is out there in the collective consicousness, but younger kids wouldn't know that. I'd even venture to day that older teens may not even know that.
I've seen kids on the internet post about how Neil gaimon ripped off JK with his Tim Hunter series, not realizing TH came first- because they don't look any farther than whats in front of them.
All the fantasy elements that have been floating around the genre for years have been conveniently packed into a series of books that have become a phenomenon, and quite frankly may have been the first introduction to fantasy that many receive, therefore they may think JK invented Unicorns, Wizard archetypes and wands.
To her credit though, a sorting hat, quick quill qoutes, moving photographs, the weasleys clock, pretty darn creative.
So I wouldn't worry too much about it- if you haven't read it, you can't have plageurised. Finsh your book, and then read them, if you feel like you have to do some editing, tackle it then. any editor worth there wait would also catch anything too close.
Good luck with your book.

 

[Marvolo]

To SpaceShip:

I believe any author should read as much as possible. If, partway through, you realize it is crap, discard it and note the reason it lost you. If someone has achieved groundbreaking success, read the book to find out why? Is it unabashed sensationalism, or is it true success at telling a wonderful story? Find out! I don't adhere to avoiding books due to worry they might creep into your style. If you avoid reading then you're style probably won't feel very fluid or carry the weight of experience.

People can sense BS. At least some can. If you're BS'ing your way through stuff because either you haven't read up in the genre, haven't researched the subject, or just haven't read enough books to understand what a fluid writing style contains then people's BS meters go off and your book goes down.

-Marvolo

 

[j d worthington]

To SpaceShip:

I believe any author should read as much as possible. If, partway through, you realize it is crap, discard it and note the reason it lost you. If someone has achieved groundbreaking success, read the book to find out why? Is it unabashed sensationalism, or is it true success at telling a wonderful story? Find out! I don't adhere to avoiding books due to worry they might creep into your style. If you avoid reading then you're style probably won't feel very fluid or carry the weight of experience.

People can sense BS. At least some can. If you're BS'ing your way through stuff because either you haven't read up in the genre, haven't researched the subject, or just haven't read enough books to understand what a fluid writing style contains then people's BS meters go off and your book goes down.

-Marvolo

Very good points, Marvolo! Writer after writer after writer has made this point: for any writer, one of the most important things is to read, read, read. Read everything you can lay your hands on. And write, write, write. And live a life so that you've got experience to call on to inform the writing. (This particular paraphrase, by the way, is taken mostly from Dorothy C. Fontana, should anyone be interested.)

Similarities are likely to occur in any genre; and what is called "unconscious plagiarism" happens with even the best writers on occasion. As I recall, Lovecraft, for example, was very worried when he was writing his "The Whisperer in Darkness" (I believe that was the story in question, anyway)that the story was going to be too similar to a story by Algernon Blackwood that had come out recently -- a story which he hadn't yet had a chance to read. In the end, what few similarities they were were generic. Ellison has a fair amount to say about this, which he calls "literary feedback", in one of the introductions in his Dangerous Visions anthology. Avoid deliberately copying or, if you find yourself writing something that is very similar to something you've read, try to avoid that. Otherwise, just write....

 

[idioteque04]

Its obviously a good book otherwise it wouldnt have sold as much, may not be for the people who are hardcore but she can obviously write.

 

[Lith]

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the series quite abit- but the fact is that it's quite the standard Joseph Campbell plot. The hero orphaned, a wise old mentor, an evil foe, the comedy side kick. etc, throw in all the unicorns, castles and dragons, and tell me who hasn't written about them.

Isn't Joseph Campbell's point that all stories contain these elements? That makes it impossible not to have a Joseph Campbell plot.

Potter does exert a strange pull on non-readers. My cousin (in his late twenties now) saw Chamber of Secrets and instantly bought all the books and read them in two weeks, and his family said he never read anything up to that point, and to this day the Potter books are all he reads, and he's re-read them several times.

On "unconscious plagiarism"- I was perusing the scant sf selection at our supermarket one day, and saw a Star Trek title that was eerily similar to a story I had been working on since I was 15 (I was probably 22 at the time). I was a little dismayed at being beaten to the punch, but at the same time extremely pleased that such an idea was worthy of publication.

As for the debate at hand, I still hold that enduring popularity is more indefinable than anything else, and that we simply cannot tell what will stand the test of time.

 

[Mithridelle]

I, personally love the books, but that's just me. Really, people can hate the book or love them - it all a matter of personal opinion. The thing that makes us unique. What I can't stand is people bagging HP (or any other series for that matter) when it is totally obvious that they haven't even tried reading them - then going so far as to start up protest groups that burn the book! (Sorry, have the fanatical Laura Mallory on my mind)

 

[richard87]

i don't know about you guys, but harry potter is more like harry pothead. The plot is just so typical -- a young boy who lives in horrible conditions ends up becoming a great wizard with a destiny. Frankly, i don't see what is so creative about it. It's just common suck-up-to-kids literature.

--kenneth eng, author of dragons: Lexicon triumvirate

ok litien buddy, you can go to hell and **** your self, i know your just mad that. 1.you don't have a life
2.your girlfriend rejected u
3.dosen't know yuor english grammar
4.dosen't know how to read
now shut your mouth before the fans start sending u viruses

 

[nixie]

OK can we have less of the personal attacks on fellow members. If I could draw your attention to rule number one in the terms of use

1. We aim to uphold a good standard of conduct in the forums.

Please respect other members and avoid making posts that may be seen as personally offensive. We don’t allow flame wars here.

Please note that this applies both to public postings and Private Messages.

 

[woodsman]

I don't really think threats are called for? Not liking this series has nothing to do with;
a, life
b, the rejection of anyone's girlfriend.
c, grammar which is considerably better than that in the post criticising it.

I'm not a fan, but, hey.

 

[jessie~mai]

ok litien buddy, you can go to hell and **** your self, i know your just mad that. 1.you don't have a life
2.your girlfriend rejected u
3.dosen't know yuor english grammar
4.dosen't know how to read
now shut your mouth before the fans start sending u viruses

ehehehhe people arguing like that make me laugh



i actually liked the books a lot but i see where this thread is coming from, it is pretty typical of ideal imaginary world, but i liked the books for the little humoury stuff in it anyways

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

ehehehhe people arguing like that make me laugh

Laugh if you like, but don't try to copy it. People like that do not make our moderators laugh. richard87 was shown the exit (from the other side), shortly after making that post.

 

[Contrary Mary]

I am better late than never, but I just starting reading Harry Potter.

Since I have read Sf and Fantasy both for over thirty years, there were no huge surpirese. But, especially the first two books, are aimed at the Young Adult audience. That DOES make a difference.

Had I read HP when I was ten, I would have raved about it much more. As it is, I found it a somewhat better than average YA fantasy, with fairly decent characterization.

Btw, I AM really puzzled when someone attack someone for liking or not liking certain books. As long as you can read what you like, why do you care what I do or do not like?

 

[jessie~mai]

Laugh if you like, but don't try to copy it. People like that do not make our moderators laugh. richard87 was shown the exit (from the other side), shortly after making that post.

>.>
<.<

they make me laugh because they just seem like idiots....

 

[Interference]

What attracts people like that to forums like these? Has anyone done a study? Or dosen anybudy wan too? I'm gonna shut my mouth now

Oh, hey! Look, my fingers still work even with my mouth closed. Multi-tasking rocks!

 

[HareBrain]

I shan't be joining in the laughter at Richard87. To get oneself banned with one's first post by dredging up a two-year-old thread and attacking someone who has himself been banned and will never read it ... I think there's a certain poetic genius to its pointlessness. I believe him to be an artist whose time has not yet come.

 

[Clansman]

Well-posted, my long-eared friend! You have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Why laugh at an exercise in futility.

Like HP myself. Just finished DH two nights ago (I am in the middle of it with my kids, but I had to read ahead after they went to bed.). My kids like it, my 8 year-old daughter wants to start reading the first book by herself, and the stories are just plain fun, with vivid characters that one can identify with.

No, HP is not literary genius. But its amazing success is proof that it struck more than just a chord, but something of an untapped literary symphony. Well done, JKR.

 

[Xelah]

What attracts people like that to forums like these? Has anyone done a study? Or dosen anybudy wan too? I'm gonna shut my mouth now

Oh, hey! Look, my fingers still work even with my mouth closed. Multi-tasking rocks!

I'm working on a study as of right now, but so far I only have a hypothesis. No actual data has been collected.

How's this for a form to be filled out by test subjects?

Medical History
1) Do you have any preexisting medical conditions?
2) Have you ever been one of Xelah's insane flatmates?
3) Have you ever been or will you ever be French?
4) How many drugs are you on? (please include recreational)
5) Have you ever had a head injury?

Testing My Hypothesis
1) Would you be opposed to letting a monkey chew on your head?
1a) If you answered NO to question 1 skip the rest of this form begin filling out a Rattlesnake Requisition Form (#835d).
2) What are the dimensions of your head? (this is needed for proper fitting of your monkey)


I'm sure there's more data that would need to be collected before I could present any findings to the scientific community, but I feel that this is a good start.

 

[Hannah Tindall]

I came to dislike Harry Potter after book 2... I've read them all and watched them all in order to have an argument for why I dislike them; else I get attacked in my English Literature class I won't judge something till I've read it... But I have to agree, they are quite typical, not as creative as a lot of people seem to think they are. Ursula Le Guin is much better

 

[Shamu]

It's a good yarn is what it is.