Not so important connections

[Young stormlord]

I like your thinking, Mesanna Here's another, really small connection .

In AGOT, Tyrion promises Mord, lady Lysa Tully's jail-keeper, a bag of gold if he delivers Tyrion's message. Mord is shocked when Tyrion delivers on his promise after Lysa lets him go. In Affc, we find out what exactly Mord did with the gold Tyrion gave him.

“Mord, take him back to his sky cell,” said Petyr.
“Yes, m’lord.” Mord grabbed Marillion roughly by the collar. “No more mouth.” When he spoke, Sansa saw to her astonishment that the gaoler’s teeth were made of gold. They watched as he half dragged half shoved the singer toward the doors.

 

[Keebs411]

I didnt go thru all the pages on this thread yet. But has anyone else realized jon snow always is some how attached to a woman with red hair? He says roz ia the 1st woman he was alone ina room naked with. Yigrette is kissed by fire and now mel. Not that hes romatically involved with a red headed woman but he seems to always end up close to a female whos been kissed by fire. Just thought that was an odd connection lol.

 

[Keebs411]

What do u guya think about tyrion having 2 diff colored eyes and shiera seastar as well. While ahe has 1 green and one blue and one of his is black i find it curious and a cool poss connection being some of us have tossed around the idea tyrion may be part targ. He also seems to share many traints with blood raven as well.....my brains on over load. I need sleep. Please share anythoughts of other waya to twiat or connect further on this

 

[The Imp]

I didnt go thru all the pages on this thread yet. But has anyone else realized jon snow always is some how attached to a woman with red hair? He says roz ia the 1st woman he was alone ina room naked with. Yigrette is kissed by fire and now mel. Not that hes romatically involved with a red headed woman but he seems to always end up close to a female whos been kissed by fire. Just thought that was an odd connection lol.

I'm not sure whom you're referring to, but Roz doesn't exist in the books, The red hair connection has been mentioned, and you can add Cat and Sansa, who both have auburn hair, which is sort of reddish brown.

Your point in the next post about two different colored eyes is interesting.

 

[Eulalia]

Seastar, sounds like Darkstar a bit...

There is a segment in one of Jon's speeches to the wildlings at Moletown(?)that reminded me of the writing on the statue of liberty that is very affecting. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..."

Dany says "you cannot use must with queens" which is something Queen Elizabeth the first said about being told who she must marry. Dany also has an affair with Daario seems like Elizabeths relationship with Robert Duddley (she does not marry for many reasons).

I may have that a little wrong, but best I can recall.

 

[Keebs411]

I didnt go thru all the pages on this thread yet. But has anyone else realized jon snow always is some how attached to a woman with red hair? He says roz ia the 1st woman he was alone ina room naked with. Yigrette is kissed by fire and now mel. Not that hes romatically involved with a red headed woman but he seems to always end up close to a female whos been kissed by fire. Just thought that was an odd connection lol.

Thank u for the corrwction. I had lent my 1st book to my mom so i wasnt able to go back and check

 

[Young stormlord]

I hope this is a connection . It's a small one and would be absolutely awesome if true.

ASOS, Catelyn's chapter

Robb beckoned the other strangers forward, each in turn. “Ser Rolph Spicer, Lady Sybell’s brother. He was castellan at the Crag when we took it.” The pepperpot knight inclined his head. A square-built man with a broken nose and a close-cropped grey beard, he looked doughty enough. “The children of Lord Gawen and Lady Sybell. Ser Raynald Westerling.” The seashell knight smiled beneath a bushy mustache. Young, lean, rough-hewn, he had good teeth and a thick mop of chestnut hair. “Elenya.” The little girl did a quick curtsy. “Rollarn Westerling, my squire.” The boy started to kneel, saw no one else was kneeling, and bowed instead.

AFFC, Jaime's chapter, when he talks by the siege of Riverun

And he’ll have it, as soon as I grow a new hand, thought Jaime. “We all have expectations,” he said mildly. “Tell me, is Ser Raynald Westerling amongst these captives?”

“The knight of seashells?” Edwyn sneered. “You’ll find that one feeding the fish at the bottom of the Green Fork.”

“He was in the yard when our men came to put the direwolf down,” said Walder Rivers. “Whalen demanded his sword and he gave it over meek enough, but when the crossbowmen began feathering the wolf he seized Whalen’s axe and cut the monster loose of the net they’d thrown over him. Whalen says he took a quarrel in his shoulder and another in the gut, but still managed to reach the wallwalk and throw himself into the river.”

And finally, the last Alayna's chapter:

“You are never an intrusion, sweetling. I was just now telling these good knights what a dutiful daughter I had.”

“Dutiful and beautiful,” said an elegant young knight whose thick blond mane cascaded down well past his shoulders.

“Aye,” said the second knight, a burly fellow with a thick salt-and-pepper beard, a red nose bulbous with broken veins, and gnarled hands as large as hams. “You left out that part, m’lord.”

“I would do the same if she were my daughter,” said the last knight, a short, wiry man with a wry smile, pointed nose, and bristly orange hair. “Particularly around louts like us.”

Alayne laughed. “Are you louts?” she said, teasing. “Why, I took the three of you for gallant knights.”

“Knights they are,” said Petyr. “Their gallantry has yet to be demonstrated, but we may hope. Allow me to present Ser Byron, Ser Morgarth, and Ser Shadrich. Sers, the Lady Alayne, my natural and very clever daughter . . . with whom I must needs confer, if you will be so good as to excuse us.”

The three knights bowed and withdrew, though the tall one with the blond hair kissed her hand before taking his leave.

Is there a chance that the young knight is Raynald Westerling? I think yes, but not bloody likely... Meanwhile, Ser Morgarth is definitely brother superior from the quiet isle...

 

[Young stormlord]

I have found Jaqen in the house of black and white!

AFFC Arya's chapter:

The waif and kindly man were not the only servants of the Many-Faced God. From time to time others would visit the House of Black and White. The fat fellow had fierce black eyes, a hook nose, and a wide mouth full of yellow teeth. The stern face never smiled; his eyes were pale, his lips full and dark. The handsome man had a beard of a different color every time she saw him, and a different nose, but he was never less than comely. Those three came most often, but there were others: the squinter, the lordling, the starved man. One time the fat fellow and the squinter came together. Umma sent Arya to pour for them. “When you are not pouring, you must stand as still as if you had been carved of stone,” the kindly man told her. “Can you do that?”

Affc, prologue:

He was just a man, and his face was just a face. A young man’s face, ordinary, with full cheeks and the shadow of a beard. A scar showed faintly on his right cheek. He had a hooked nose, and a mat of dense black hair that curled tightly around his ears. It was not a face Pate recognized. “I do not know you.”

 

[Young stormlord]

This one goes all the way to ACOK. Melisandre is the reason Stannis lost the battle on Blackwater rush! How?

She has seen two visions. One is Renly and Stannis coming to siege King's Landing and joining their forces there. The other is Stannis besieging King's Landing and getting hit in the rear by Renly and his forces. Thing is, that is exactly what happened to Stannis: A man wearing Renly's armor hit him in the rear and kicked his arse.

If Stannis didn't besiege Storm's End, two brothers would have met at King's Landing and joined forces. Instead, Renly gave Stannis defiance in front of Storm's End (what did he expect? He besieged Renly's home and seat!) and died for it. And thing is, Melisandre told Stannis to besiege Storm's End in the first place!

Mel has serious problems when it comes to the meaning of her visions...

 

[Mesanna]

Nice pickup Stormlord!! I hope Ghost eats Mel's face before the end of the series. She deserves it.

 

[Boaz]

Mesanna, I doubt that Ghost deserves that punishment.

YS, that keeps the door slightly ajar that Melisandre has deluded herself into believing Stannis is AAR when all evidence points to the contrary.

 

[Keebs411]

So on break @ work today u decided to skip around in the A Wiki Of Ice and Fire. i like to go through and search out smaller connections i may have missed cause we all know there is so much information to take in through out the series so far its hard to retain it all with out some refreshers

Well todays skip around was in going through the kingsgaurd. This was after Tywin did an immaculate job with the challenge Boaz set in the triva threat regaurding the KG matching their names with their deeds, So i eventually found myself all up in the Dayne family history, and i come upon Ashara.

She is rumored to have had a fling with ned. rumored to be jons real mother (im all in for r+l=j theory myself). She jumped, presumed dead (no body found, but ill even go with she died.) Now Selmy recalls that Ashara killed herself because she gave birth to a stillborn daughter. That a Stark bedded her at the tournament of Harrenhal and got her with child. Ashara was full of grief after the death of her child and shame for the way Stark dishonored her, which led to her suicide... SOOOO NOT NEDS STYLE!! how ever whos to say it wasnt a stark? What about his Brother Benjen?

*Benjen attended with his siblings the http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tourney_at_Harrenhal@ Tourney of Harrenhal (he was there same time as ned, same time the r/l love was "blooming")

*During Robert's rebellionhttp://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert's_Rebellion the wiki says Benjen was probably in Winterfell....nothing confirms this. But being that Asharas brother is KG for the king during this rebellion and Ben's brother is considered an enemy im sure being on opposite sides didnt make things easy if indeed he was the Stark Ashara was involved with.

*He joined the Night's Watch shortly after the rebellion/war ends for reasons unknown.... Ashara (if with child miss carries) and then jumps to kill herself around this time.... with all that and Ben blamed himself i could see him going to the wall as a result of his poss guilt or grief.


sorry if this has already been brought up i just found it interesting

 

[Boaz]

Keebs, I've always wondered why Ben took the Black? Mayhaps as the third son, he seriously considered it from a young age, but after Brandon's and Lyanna's deaths Eddard might have wanted Ben's support. In an early Jon chapter of AGOT (I think), Jon thinks of joining the NW, but never considers that as futures for Bran or Rickon. Jon assumed Bran and Rickon would hold keeps in Robb's name. Why did Benjen join, but Bran and Rickon won't? I dunno, but I've never gotten any good ideas on Ben's taking the Black.... so Ashara is as good as any.

Barristan's memories are important. In addition to the memory you mentioned, does he not remember Ashara as the great love of his life? He could not publicly pursue her because he was of the Kingsguard.

What if..... Barristan and Ashara consumated their love? Imagine Barristan planning to ride out with Rhaegar to their deaths.... Imagine Ashara losing the man she loves and knowing the war will go badly... If Aegon was smuggled out of KL, then Ashara, as Elia's maid, certainly knew of it. Elia and Ashara knew that Rhaegar was not confident about confronting Robert's army. Imagine them spending one night of passion before saying good-bye forever. Imagine Eddard bringing Arthur's sword to Ashara... Eddard, her first love who was already married and who slew her brother, bringing home the sword and news that Barristan, her second love and the father of her unborn child, was severely wounded and likely to die... Then she lost her child and jumped.

Now rethink the scenes in AGOT where Eddard and Barristan meet. Did Barristan want to smash Eddard's face?

What if Quaithe is Ashara in disguise? Barristan and Quaithe are both desirous of seeing Dany on the Iron Throne... Could they finally come back together twenty years after being seperated?

 

[Mesanna]

Isn't there also a theory that Brandon Stark was the one who got Ashara pregnant? I can't recall all the details, but I've definitely read about that somewhere.

 

[Keebs411]

Yes there was the theory of brandon as well....... o the possibilities.

Boaz im going to have to do some heavy brain picking on mr. Barristan and his chapters and danys as well for the times he was giving her anew updated summery about her family hiatory and the days before the last war...... oooooo i love a good time of playing westori detective lol.

 

[Rufio]

I think the smart money is on Brandon being the wolf that dishonoured Ashara, as Selmy thinks of it. He's established a a bit of a wild man and someone who liked the ladies too.

My own speculation on Benjen is that he played some part, or at least had prior knowledge, of Rheagar and Lyanna running away together, and ended up on the wall because of that, as punishment and to keep him out of Robert's way if it ever came out.

I don't have anything from the text to back that up right now, if there even is anything.

 

[juleska]

Keebs, I've always wondered why Ben took the Black? Mayhaps as the third son, he seriously considered it from a young age, but after Brandon's and Lyanna's deaths Eddard might have wanted Ben's support. In an early Jon chapter of AGOT (I think), Jon thinks of joining the NW, but never considers that as futures for Bran or Rickon. Jon assumed Bran and Rickon would hold keeps in Robb's name. Why did Benjen join, but Bran and Rickon won't? I dunno, but I've never gotten any good ideas on Ben's taking the Black.... so Ashara is as good as any.

Barristan's memories are important. In addition to the memory you mentioned, does he not remember Ashara as the great love of his life? He could not publicly pursue her because he was of the Kingsguard.

What if..... Barristan and Ashara consumated their love? Imagine Barristan planning to ride out with Rhaegar to their deaths.... Imagine Ashara losing the man she loves and knowing the war will go badly... If Aegon was smuggled out of KL, then Ashara, as Elia's maid, certainly knew of it. Elia and Ashara knew that Rhaegar was not confident about confronting Robert's army. Imagine them spending one night of passion before saying good-bye forever. Imagine Eddard bringing Arthur's sword to Ashara... Eddard, her first love who was already married and who slew her brother, bringing home the sword and news that Barristan, her second love and the father of her unborn child, was severely wounded and likely to die... Then she lost her child and jumped.

Now rethink the scenes in AGOT where Eddard and Barristan meet. Did Barristan want to smash Eddard's face?

What if Quaithe is Ashara in disguise? Barristan and Quaithe are both desirous of seeing Dany on the Iron Throne... Could they finally come back together twenty years after being seperated?

I never thought about why Benjen took the black, this is a good potential explanation.

That said....I have huge problems with all the different theories around Ashara Dayne....maybe someone can help me clear this up. The timeline doesn't seem to work for me.

We know that Ned is in his mid-thirties in AGOT. We know that Barristan the Bold is jokingly called "Barristan the Old", and I believe we learn he is in his 60s or 70s when Joffrey dismisses him. There's a point in AGOT where they state he's won tourneys against men 30 and 40 years younger than him. I don't know of anyone who enters a tourney at younger than 15, if that, so we can safely assume he is, at minimum 55, but I think the implication is that he's in his 60s.

So we know that Barristan was in love with Ashara, and we know that she "looked to a Stark" at Harrenhal. Benjen is the younger brother, and the youngest of Ned's siblings as well.

If we assume (or do we know?) that Robert and Ned were in their late teens at Harrenhal, and Barristan is, at minimum, 20 years older than Ned (I think 30), that means you have 55 year old Barry competing with 20 year old Ned for Ashara who is....somewhere in the middle? Or you have a 55 year old Barry competing with a 14-16 year old Benjen for a late-20s/early 30s Ashara? Doesn't make sense.

The Stark that Barristan refers to must be Brandon......or, Ned's father, or perhaps an uncle that we're overlooking? If it is Brandon, that could be another reason Ned was so sensitive about Catelyn asking if Ashara was Jon's mother. Introducing the question of whether or not Ashara had an affair with one of the Stark men could've brought forward the point that Ashara was makin' whoopie with Brandon at a time that Brandon was engaged to Catelyn.

But I do have to wonder why Benjen took the black.....and he even made that remark to Jon that he should wait until he's fathered a few bastards of his own before he makes his mind up about his vows. That said, not a lot of guff has ever been made about Benjen taking the black, but one thing that has often been stated is that the Night's Watch used to be an honorable calling, where men of great houses sacrificed much to serve the realm. But now it's seen as the dumping ground for the unwanted scum of the realm. When Benjen took the black, I think it was still more the former than the latter. I can't recall any hints or discussions that Benjen dishonored himself in any way and *had* to take the black. In fact, House Stark is one of the few houses in the realm that has *always* supported the NW. I assumed that Benjen took the black because he was the youngest brother and stood no chance of holding any great role for his house....so that was his way of making his mark on the world.

 

[Tywin]

That said, not a lot of guff has ever been made about Benjen taking the black, but one thing that has often been stated is that the Night's Watch used to be an honorable calling, where men of great houses sacrificed much to serve the realm. But now it's seen as the dumping ground for the unwanted scum of the realm. When Benjen took the black, I think it was still more the former than the latter. I can't recall any hints or discussions that Benjen dishonored himself in any way and *had* to take the black. In fact, House Stark is one of the few houses in the realm that has *always* supported the NW. I assumed that Benjen took the black because he was the youngest brother and stood no chance of holding any great role for his house....so that was his way of making his mark on the world.

I've always thought the easiest and most likely explanation is that because Benjen was too young to participate in the great rebellion that removed the Targaryens he joined the Night's Watch to win his own honor and fame. Better that than to live in the shadow of his older brothers the Martyr and the Hero of the realm.

 

[D.A. Madigan]

Ser Shaedrich reminds me of Reepicheep from The Chronicles of Narnia.

 

[Young stormlord]

This one is in ADWD: There are 3 Freys that start going to the "Arya" 's wedding but never arrive. There are 3 wedding pies filled with pork on the wedding. And very, very drunk Manderly asks from Mance Ryder to sing about the Rat Cook after all the guests except for "Arya" and Theon eat of them... *wink wink, nudge nudge*

(Edit: yes, I know it's an old connection. I just wanted to R'lorr's kiss this thread)