Not so important connections

Hilarious Joke said:
Mhm. I hope things turn out alright for her, she's been through stuff that no-one, let alone a child, should have to go through.

I thought it was strange that GRRM changed Sansa's name at the start of the chapters where she went under a different name as Littlefinger's ******* daughter, but didn't change Arya's name when she went under her different names.
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I think that's to show how Arya was still Arya whereas Sansa becomes whomever she's wanted to become. Sansa is a people pleaser, and Arya is much stronger-willed.
 
I disagree, I think they are very similar in the way they deal with their past and their new identity. Arya doesn't dwell on her past, especially since she's working with the Faceless ones, and she seems to become her new persona just like Sansa does.
 
I disagree, sansa gave no resistance, the moment she was asked to becom her new persona, she did it, sansa stark is but a dream for her now. arya on the other hand was asked to be a faceless over and over again, to cast away her past and to become a tool for her god. she didn't, she won't. I can't see arya stop. She will continue to think and feel very passionately about her past, family, home and most of all about Jon. I don't claim that sansa doesn't think of her past as a stark, but it gives me the feel of an intellectual recollection, like it all happened to someone else.
 
i certainly don't think that Sansa is a people pleaser - anymore. She may have started out that way, but by the time she fled King's Landing she was a very different person. Sansa didn't want to become Alayne Stone, but she knows she has no choice. Arya has choices. She is free of the confines of being a lady - which Sansa is not - and was able to choose to become one of the Faceless.
You have to remember that they are completely different people, not just in their own heads, but in the eyes and minds of others.
Sansa is the truly beautiful ice-princess with impeccable manners and a courtly intelliegence that others find both charming and endearing. (cersei found it threatening to her own position) She has not learned to fight with weapons as Ladies don't do that. Sansa has come to realise, i believe, that her femininity, her beauty is going to be her weapon for the rest of her life. But that means until she has a firm footing of her own, she has to play along with Littlefingers schemes. I see Sansa as a player of the Game akin to Cersei, but Sansa is much more intelligent that Cersei.
Arya is wholly the opposite. and she has her own schemes...

I think that except for Bran, the remaining Starks will survive this series. I see Bran sacrificing himself in the end to halt the Others.
 
sacrifice and survival are quit different things
and luck, in SOI&F is not so much a fickle lady,as a true bitch.
for instance, in my opinion, ariya is developing in the direction of a sacrificial lamb, but will see the crowd that go to Hades in those bloody pages so (in the words house Jordayne) "LET IT BE WRITTEN"…
 
Arya and Sansa are both working towards the same end/goal but using different means to get there.

Interesting if these would collide.
 
Re: nooses crowns and zombies

pan naranus said:
Some lines ago you were discussing the crown cat had in her lap while sitting judge on Briens case.
Its mentioned how it got there. The frey that jame sends out of river run in shame (hair of walder, do not recall his name) had it. It was taken from him when he was hanged by stone hart's man. Stone hart holds it cos she just received it, and yes, it is rob's crown that was taken by the freys, they did not cast it to the river with the other rubbish left after the red wedding.

And while I'm at it, beating dead horses so the twitches will resemble life, briens shield, how did dunks shield got to the armory of tarth in order for brien to copy it? What's the bloody significance? Is it blood? Spirit? prophecy?
Is briene going to be a part of yet another kings/queens guard? danys? Will baristan selmy recognize the device? Is he old enough to have known dunk, or versed enough in the white book?

And yet another one... cersy... I think she is going to rise... yet again, for the little tyrel rose is not the young, more beautiful queen prophesized, that is dany, so cersy should rule till she is knocked down by a dragon...

Wow, that was tigershly long...
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I believe Selmy once defeated Dunk at a tourney (in melee or joust I don't know) when Dunk was the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.
 
This is from ACOK, one of Dany's visions in the pallace of dust:
A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

And this is from AFFC, one of the Cersei's chapters:

“One more thing. A trifling matter.” He gave her an apologetic smile and told her of a puppet show that had recently become popular amongst the city’s smallfolk; a puppet show wherein the kingdom of the beasts was ruled by a pride of haughty lions. “The puppet lions grow greedy and arrogant as this treasonous tale proceeds, until they begin to devour their own subjects. When the noble stag makes objection, the lions devour him as well, and roar that it is their right as the mightiest of beasts.”
“And is that the end of it?” Cersei asked, amused. Looked at in the right light, it could be seen as a salutary lesson.
“No, Your Grace. At the end a dragon hatches from an egg and devours all of the lions.”
The ending took the puppet show from simple insolence to treason. “Witless fools. Only cretins would hazard their heads upon a wooden dragon.” She considered a moment. “Send some of your whisperers to these shows and make note of who attends. If any of them should be men of note, I would know their names.”

Then the guy asks her to give the puppeters for his experiments. Make your own conclusions :).
 
If you liked that, you will like this even more.
Quote from same chapter in ACOK:
A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly
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Summarry of some Sam chapters from AFFC

Maester Aemon preferred to spend his days on deck as well, huddled beneath a pile of furs and gazing out across the water. “What is he looking at?” Dareon wondered one day. “For him it’s as dark up here as it is down in the cabin.”
The old man heard him. Though Aemon’s eyes had dimmed and gone dark, there was nothing wrong with his ears. “I was not born blind,” he reminded them. “When last I passed this way, I saw every rock and tree and whitecap, and watched the grey gulls flying in our wake. I was five-and-thirty and had been a maester of the chain for sixteen years. Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander.”
“Bloodraven?” said Dareon. “I know a song about him. ‘A Thousand Eyes, and One,’ it’s called. But I thought he lived a hundred years ago.”
“We all did. Once I was as young as you.” That seemed to make him sad. He coughed, and closed his eyes, and went to sleep, swaying in his furs whenever some wave rocked the ship.
*snip*
The next day the rains began, and the seas grew rougher. “We had best go below, where it’s dry,” Sam said to Aemon, but the old maester only smiled, and said, “The rain feels good against my face, Sam. It feels like tears. Let me stay a while longer, I pray you. It has been a long time since last I wept.”
If Maester Aemon meant to stay on deck, old and frail as he was, Sam had no choice but to do the same. He stayed beside the old man for nigh unto an hour, huddled in his cloak as a soft, steady rain soaked him to his skin. Aemon hardly seemed to feel it. He sighed and closed his eyes, and Sam moved closer to him, to shield him from the worst of the wind. He will ask me to help him to the cabin soon, he told himself. He must. But he never did, and finally thunder began to rumble in the distance, off to the east. “We have to get below,” Sam said, shivering. Maester Aemon did not reply. It was only then that Sam realized the old man had gone to sleep. “Maester,” he said, shaking him gently by one shoulder. “Maester Aemon, wake up.”
Aemon’s blind white eyes came open. “Egg?” he said, as the rain streamed down his cheeks. “Egg, I dreamed that I was old.”
Sam did not know what to do. He knelt and scooped the old man up and carried him below. No one had ever called him strong, and the rain had soaked through Maester Aemon’s blacks and made him twice as heavy, but even so, he weighed no more than a child.
When he shoved into the cabin with Aemon in his arms, he found that Gilly had let all the candles gutter out. The babe was asleep and she was curled up in a corner, sobbing softly in the folds of the big black cloak that Sam had given her. “Help me,” he said urgently. “Help me dry him off and get him warm.”
She rose at once, and together they got the old maester out of his wet clothes and buried him beneath a pile of furs. His skin was damp and cold, though, clammy to the touch. “You get in with him,” Sam told Gilly. “Hold him. Warm him with your body. We have to warm him up.” She did that too, never saying a word, all the while still sniffling. “Where’s Dareon?” asked Sam. “We’d all be warmer if we were together. He needs to be here too.” He was headed back up top to find the singer when the deck rose up beneath him, then fell away beneath his feet. Gilly wailed, Sam slammed down hard and lost his legs, and the babe woke screaming.
*snip*
“The night before he died, he asked if he might hold the babe,” Gilly went on. “I was afraid he might drop him, but he never did. He rocked him and hummed a song for him, and Dalla’s boy reached up and touched his face. The way he pulled his lip I thought he might be hurting him, but it only made the old man laugh.” She stroked Sam’s hand. “We could name the little one Maester, if you like. When he’s old enough, not now. We could.”
“Maester is not a name. You could call him Aemon, though.”
Gilly thought about that. “Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong.”
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I don't really understand the connection between the two passages, unless its just that Aemon was very close to being dead standing on the prow of the ship.
 
This creeps me out every time I read it.
ACOK, Arya chapter.

She brought Lord Bolton a damp washcloth to wipe down his soft hairless body. “I will send a letter of my own,” he told the onetime maester.
“To the Lady Walda?”
“To Ser Helman Tallhart.”
A rider from Ser Helman had come two days past. Tallhart men had taken the castle of the Darrys, accepting the surrender of its Lannister garrison after a brief siege.
“Tell him to put the captives to the sword and the castle to the torch, by command of the king. Then he is to join forces with Robett Glover and strike east toward Duskendale. Those are rich lands, and hardly touched by the fighting. It is time they had a taste. Glover has lost a castle, and Tallhart a son. Let them take their vengeance on Duskendale.”
“I shall prepare the message for your seal, my lord.”

ASOS, before the red wedding.

Catelyn turned back to Roose Bolton. “Ser Wendel said something of Lannisters on the Trident?”
“He did, my lady. I blame myself. I delayed too long before leaving Harrenhal. Aenys Frey departed several days before me and crossed the Trident at the ruby ford, though not without difficulty. But by the time we came up the river was a torrent. I had no choice but to ferry my men across in small boats, of which we had too few. Two-thirds of my strength was on the north side when the Lannisters attacked those still waiting to cross. Norrey, Locke, and Burley men chiefly, with Ser Wylis Manderly and his White Harbor knights as rear guard. I was on the wrong side of the Trident, powerless to help them. Ser Wylis rallied our men as best he could, but Gregor Clegane attacked with heavy horse and drove them into the river. As many drowned as were cut down. More fled, and the rest were taken captive.”
Gregor Clegane was always ill news, Catelyn reflected. Would Robb need to march south again to deal with him? Or was the Mountain coming here? “is Clegane across the river, then?”
“No.” Bolton’s voice was soft, but certain. “I left six hundred men at the ford. Spearmen from the rills, the mountains, and the White Knife, a hundred Hornwood longbows, some freeriders and hedge knights, and a strong force of Stout and Cerwyn men to stiffen them. Ronnel Stout and Ser Kyle Condon have the command. Ser Kyle was the late Lord Cerwyn’s right hand, as I’m sure you know, my lady. Lions swim no better than wolves. So long as the river runs high, Ser Gregor will not cross.”
“The last thing we need is the Mountain at our backs when we start up the causeway,” said Robb. “You did well, my lord.”
“Your Grace is too kind. I suffered grievous losses on the Green Fork, and Glover and Tallhart worse at Duskendale.”
“Duskendale.” Robb made the word a curse. “Robett Glover will answer for that when I see him, I promise you.”

Have you noticed what Bolton just did? First, he sends Robett Glover and Robb's loyal man, into death then says that to Robb, to look like he had nothing to do with it. He also leaves some more of Robb's loyal man far from Twins, with very good excuse. Creepy ass*!%*:mad:
 
Something I realized in my one millionth reread of AFFC: Cersei killed Melara Witherspoon (not completely sure of that last name). She was the girl who had her fortune told along with Cersei. Cersei's POV's mention some thoughts she had about Melara; she thinks of her as a schemer who had thoughts above her station and thinks to herself about the screaming Melara was doing in the well (which means Cersei was at the scene when she died.) Melara asked the maegi if she would marry Jaime, to which the maegi replied something like "Worms will have your maidenhood...your death is in the room tonight" At first I thought that meant she fell down the well that same night (dumb), but she didn't-she was pushed in the well by Cersei, her "death in the room." Sorry if I'm bringing this when everybody else already knew it. Probably not important but it does give us another glimpse of Cersei's sweet personality.
 
Wait a second, YOSS. You're saying that Cersei commited murder at age... what, twelve?

I need to reread too.
 
Last edited:
Boaz said:
Wait a second, YOSS. You're saying that Cersei commited murder at age... what, twelve?

I need to reread too.
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I picked up on the same thing during my reread this past winter. Completely missed it the first time through. Then again, I didn't catch much of anything my first time through AFFC. It's really a book that can't be read years after you've finished ASOS. It's so much better reading it after having finished ASOS very recently. The slower pace and deeper machinations of the book are a welcome change from the breakneck speed and avalanche of events that occur in ASOS. I could see how people would be disappointed with it (like I was the first time through) if it's been four years since reading ASOS (like it was for me... I just didn't have time to reread the entire series when AFFC came out). Hm, this post turned into a book review.
 
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