Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell (Book Club)

[Culhwch]

'This afternoon' has been and gone. Work's up in my next 'this afternoon'.

 

[Lenny]

Oh yeah, Australia.

An evening, then? Or a night? I mean, who actually needs sleep?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Strange does take a while to make his appearance. But some of the minor characters already in place at page 100 develop more interesting facets along the way. And characters do come along for whom it is much, much easier to feel sympathy than Norrell and his cohorts.

But you really don't need to read the footnotes if they are distracting you and slowing you down. I found them interesting myself, and thought they added an extra dimension, but reading them is a little like watching "Lost" -- more knowledge does not equate to a greater understanding of what it's all about. So you could skip them and be no more in the dark about certain things than if you had actually read them. Or you could go back and read them later, when they'll probably make a little more sense.

 

[dsmith]

I was getting really irritated by the footnotes, so I started skipping them, and the book is going faster, although I still have a lot more to read.

 

[Lenny]

"Footnotes a book do not make" as some may say.

But not me. I quite like footnotes. And I'm going to have to read the book again, as soon as I've finished The Unadulterated Cat, so I can really get into a discussion.

 

[kaneda]

I'm reading this at the moment. I'm currently on about page 550. It is taking an AGE to get through though (as other people have said, because of the damn size of the thing - you can't actually carry it anywhere, and the footnotes).

I am kinda enjoying it though. Although, I'm finding that there are a lot of chapters which to my mind seem to be nothing more than filler, doesn't seem to progress the story further or anything. I'm finding that highly frustrating.

But, I will continue with the book, if for no other reason than Neil Gaiman loves it

 

[Trey Greyjoy]

To me this was a classic example of "its not the destination, but the journey" situation. I never really felt hurried to reach the end or want the action to move along any quicker. I simply read along enjoying each scene as its own. I loved the atmosphere and unique flavor the story has. If anything I would say it left me hungry for more! Im dying to know more about the English magicians of the past and their relationship with Faerie. Who also, after having read the book, wouldnt want to know more about John Uskglass, his life, his kingdom in Hell etc.?

It will pick up a bit after Strange comes into the story, but you will find that neither is an overwhelmingly sympathetic protagonist. I related to Strange a bit better than Norrell, but not entirely.

Personally I didnt find the footnotes distracting at all. Often they just add spice and some history behind what is happening. Sometimes the footnotes were more interesting to me than what was occuring in the main body of the book! In my opinion a lot of what I enjoyed about the novel would be lost if you skipped over the footnotes, but that's just me.

All that being said, I do think this isnt a work that I would recommend to just anyone. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I also knew what to expect from reading reviews. To me the book is a wonderful surprise and one that I will be recalling well into the future.

It took me about 3 months to work my way through it, but I had 3 other books I was reading at the same time.

 

[jackokent]

To me this was a classic example of "its not the destination, but the journey" situation.

Really agree with this. I was just enjoying it, not really needing to rush towards some blinding denouement, just tittering away at all the quietly funny bits. I loved the footnotes and thought they just added to the basic feel of the experience.

I would strongly urge people to keep going. There were times I flagged but these were near the beginning and it did increase pace although as you can probably guess it doesn't ever turn into a thriller.

 

[No Inspiration]

Culhwch,
I had the same problem as you at about 100 pages or so in.
In my case, I chose to take a break and re-read Finovar(GGK). When I finished that, I had nothing else to read, so I went back to Strange and Norrell.
In my case, I was able to find it much more interesting after that break. I am now almost finished. In my case as well, I began to find the footnotes much more interesting as I progressed with the book. In addition to all of this, I did find that Strange added some more... I don't know, flavour, I suppose, to the book. But I myself have a good amount of Sympathy for Mr Norrell and his hardships.
Anyway, I hope you hold in there and it proves to be much better for you as well, .
Lena.

 

[Culhwch]

Well, I haven't actually touched the book in a few days - been reading some graphic novels - so hopefully when I get back into it I'll finally get into it.

 

[kaneda]

I finished reading this a couple of days ago. My reaction to it is pretty much the same as when I finished reading A Prayer for Owen Meany - where the chapters which seemed pretty pointless makes sense and where everything does come together at the end.

Although I liked it (didn't love it), it has created this huge need to know more about uskglass - it would have been great if there had been more about his story in the book.

I am glad that I've read it though, but I'm more happier than now I can begin reading a diferent book

 

[Razorback]

I finally finished this one. I read mostly Sci-Fi, and this was very different from what I normally read. I only read it because it won a Hugo and I’m trying to read all of the Hugo and Nebula novel winners (12 to go). It’s blind luck that my reading coincided with the book club. Two things helped me through it. First, I mostly skimmed or skipped the footnotes. Second, I didn’t read it strait through. I always read one book at time until finished, then move on to the next. In this case, I stopped about every 250 pages and read another relatively short book before returning to Strange and Norrell. I probably would have given up about half way through if I hadn’t taken the breaks. I ended up somewhat enjoying the book, but I can’t say that I’m a big fan.

I definitely agree with the comment about the journey rather than the destination. I will reserve further comment until more people are farther along or finished.

 

[Lenny]

We're a week in to April already, quite a number have read it specially for the Bookclub, or have read it before, so I think we might as well stop holding back.

Soooo........ who wants to start?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'm in the midst of a big project, which makes it a bad time for me to get too involved in any discussion. And with a book like this one ... I could get very involved indeed.

When I finish (I hope) in the next couple of days, I will undoubtedly have much to say.

 

[Culhwch]

Er... still on page one hundred, sadly. I just have no motivation to pick it up again, when there's things I actually want to read. I just have to grit my teeth and do it, I guess...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Courage, Culhwch. You've stopped at a point where it's fairly understandable that you're not motivated to keep on going. If the book has failed to exert it's peculiar charms over you by the time you've read about 300 pages, it probably never will -- but at page 100 the best is still ahead.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

[ladyflorange]

i haven't managed to start it yet... its lying in the corner of my room and every time i go to pick it up i get scared :s

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

OK, since people are shy about getting the discussion going, I'll take a stab at it.

Obligatory disclaimer: This is the kind of book that nobody seems to be writing any more, the kind of book I wish more people were writing. So in that way I am obviously biased in favor. On the other hand, I would have been all the more critical if I felt she had tried to write a nineteenth-century type novel and blown it entirely. In fact, if it had been a botched attempt I am sure I would have hated the book.

But I think Susanna Clarke accomplished something extraordinary in JS&MN. Certainly in terms of catching the style and the flavor of the period -- I don't think I've ever seen anyone try to do this and succeed so spectacularly before. I also appreciate the complexity of the plot, the "history" of magic, the depth she put into some of her characters, and the way that she combined fantasy and real historical events. All in all, I loved this book. It was a leisurely read, and I tend to be the kind of reader who races right on through to see what happens next and how it all turns out -- and then if I love the book, go back and reread some of the best parts -- but with JS&MN I was happy to slow down and savor the experience.

I was very happy with the way she handled the magic. She told us quite a bit without telling too much. I always like the magic in a book to remain a little mysterious, so that it retains a certain numinous quality. Once you start explaining it in ordinary terms ... as far as I am concerned it becomes just that, ordinary, and this where so many fantasy novels lose me. But while she doesn't make that mistake, she does perform a precarious sort of balancing act by keeping the magic mysterious while making most of her practitioners of English Magic so very, very mundane -- one might almost say relentlessly mundane.

The book does have its flaws. Mr. Norrell is not a sympathetic character. Nor is he, in the way of most anti-heros, a swashbuckling rogue, a disillusioned hero, or a spectacularly creepy character. He has a great talent for magic, but he himself is a dry, petty little man -- small in every sense of the word. Thank goodness Jonathan Strange finally comes along. Strange is not the most sympathetic character ever written either (he can be particularly annoying in his attitude to Mrs. Strange), but the contrast with Norrell does put him in a favorable light (perhaps more so than he actually deserves), and at least he is much more interesting. But even though I didn't love these characters, I found them thoroughly believable. One reason (I think) why the movements of the plot are so often less than dramatic is because the characters insist on acting like real people would under the same conditions, rather than produce a lot of melodramatic flourishes to help the author spice up the story.

There are, however, several characters that I found much more interesting and likeable than Strange or Norrell -- and I think it would have been a better book if we had been allowed to see more of them: Childermass, Lady Pole, Arabella Strange, and Stephen Black. I'm of two minds about whether we should see more of the Thistle-haired Gentleman; I found him fascinating, but like the magic perhaps he would have lost some of his sinister glamour if he had played a larger role.

And now for a bit of a spoiler in the way of a question (highlight to read):
Am I the only one who thought Childermass was going to turn out to be the Raven King? Until very near the end, when we began to find out more about him, I was waiting for a big revelation -- which of course never came, as I was completely mistaken.

 

[Lenny]

That's a nice review.

I'll have to agree with you on your question. While I didn't think he'd turn out to be the Raven King, I was waiting for some more background information on him. I suppose that not having it in JS&MN gives Clarke the chance to give him a far bigger role, and write more about him, in her next book (which I do believe is in the process of being written), if it's about the same things and from the same time period, obviously.