The Revived Tolkien Trivia

[HareBrain]

That was exactly it, Py, thanks. The electric whisk I stuck in my ear must have scrambled my brain a bit.

 

[Pyan]

That was exactly it, Py, thanks. The electric whisk I stuck in my ear must have scrambled my brain a bit.

Why would you...? Never mind.

 

[farntfar]

Today we think of a 'penthouse' as being the luxury flat on the top floor of the block, but it originally had a very specific descriptive meaning, and is used that way somewhere in Middle-earth. Where? Quote, please

Are you speaking of the sylvan elves and their flets or Talans?
I can only give you a bit from the chapter Lothlorien, which really doesn't go into detail.

...,and among these they found there had been built a wooden platform, or flet as such things were called in those days: the Elves called it a talan.

in the Lost Tales, maybe Unfinished Tales, I think, there is a much longer description of how these were built as sorts of watchtowers, and how the "royal" lodge in the centre of Lorien was somewhat odd in it being a great lodging as well as a watchtower.
Unfortunately, as I have only listened to these as audiobooks, I can't find or reproduce the quotation which explains in far more detail their use as watchtowers than LOTR does.

 

[Pyan]

No, sorry - it's not in Lothlórien.

 

[HareBrain]

Is the word "penthouse" used? I can "hear" it but I think that might be false memory and throwing me off.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Taking that to include those who handled it at all, I think it's:

Sauron
Isildur
Deagol
Smeagol-Gollum
Bilbo
Envelope (cheated out of passing into the West in my view)
Frodo
Tom Bombadil
Sam

How about Glorfindel's horse, who bore the rider who bore the Ring?

Gandalf also held it in Bag End.

 

[HareBrain]

Gandalf also held it in Bag End.

Ah yes, when he threw it in the fire.

How about Glorfindel's horse, who bore the rider who bore the Ring?

Also Bill the Pony in that case, and someone must have lifted him into bed at Rivendell.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Ah yes, when he threw it in the fire.


Also Bill the Pony in that case, and someone must have lifted him into bed at Rivendell.

And the person who lifted Frodo onto Bill at Weathertop, and the person who lifted him off Bill and onto Glorfindel's steed. And the person...

I think we must discount carrying/lifting or touching someone who has the Ring in their possession at that time, but Gandalf - who actually held it - should be considered a 'bearer'.

 

[Boaz]

I never thought about the definition of the word penthouse. But I’d have to guess that it has to do with livestock being penned around the house. If… This is an accurate definition, then we’re dealing with an ancient and medieval world.. and that means that there are livestock almost everywhere. This would omit Valinor and Bag End from consideration.

Not a very helpful answer, I admit. But that’s my thought process so far.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I never thought about the definition of the word penthouse. But I’d have to guess that it has to do with livestock being penned around the house. If… This is an accurate definition, then we’re dealing with an ancient and medieval world.. and that means that there are livestock almost everywhere. This would omit Valinor and Bag End from consideration.

Not a very helpful answer, I admit. But that’s my thought process so far.

This was my impression as well. In an agricultural world, a side-house for tools could be Farmer Maggot or even the Gaffer. It could even include Bag End, assuming Sam doesn't carry his gardening tools with him when trimming the eaves.

Could we perhaps narrow it down to a single book.

 

[Pyan]

If you wish: it's in LotR...

You do realise that every clue given reduces the value of the bell that the correct guesser receives?

 

[Pyan]

It's not Bag End, and it's about as far from Valinor as you can get in Middle-earth - but there is a strange parallel.

 

[Boaz]

That clue must mean a maia, Bombadil, or Galadriel.

 

[farntfar]

A penthouse was originally constructed on top of a previously completed building. But because of your two supplementary clues, my first thoughts are clearly wrong.
They were the top of Orthanc where Gandalf was held prisoner by Saruman (which is not as far away from Valinor as you can get), and the tower in Dale, on top of which was the big crossbow used to shoot down Smaug (which is described in the wrong book).

So I'm still looking.
However, having spoken of the first disqualification, I'm bought back to something that has intrigued me for a long time, and which someone may be able to help with.

What do we know of the far East.
I mean Middle Earth is in the middle. The far west is Valinor and all we know of the East is Rhun, Far Mordor, and perhaps Far Harad. But these could all be considered to be just East Middle Earth.

There is possibly the lake of Cuivienen, But there has to be more.
And are the Valar looking after that too.
I dare say its all been discussed on the web somewhere.
Has anyone any good links?

 

[Pyan]

@Boaz is thinking along the right lines…

 

[HareBrain]

Ah, it's Bombadil's place. I thought I recalled seeing the word.

"They came on a low room with a sloping roof (a penthouse, it seemed, built on the north end of the house)."

(LOTR Book 1 chapter 7)

 

[Pyan]

That's it, @HareBrain - a bell from the pentatonic scale for you, and it's your turn.

 

[HareBrain]

Ta!

Which strange (or amusing) diminutive avians lacked the equipment to fly? (Quote please.)

 

[Pyan]

I was thinking of kirinki, but it doesn't specify that they were flightless.

...the birds of Númenor were beyond count, from the kirinki that were no bigger than wrens, but all scarlet, with piping voices on the edge of human hearing...

Unfinished Tales, "A Description of the Island of Númenor"

 

[HareBrain]

I'd completely forgotten about those. But no, not them.