Swearing in books

[Anastasia]

My daughter tries to say FREAKING this to everything...I don't like that so much, its irksome and usually followed by the preteen eyeball roll and "whatever" which is the child version of F--- it.

I have Irish relatives and I love "Fecking", as used in Father Ted. The only problem is, when I use it on American sites, they think I've made it up!

I agree, "What the frell?" is brilliant. I loved Farscape - well, up until the point when the two John's got seperated and then it got a bit silly.

 

[dustinzgirl]

Yes, that one amuses me, because of the origins of the term... and the fact that so few either know it, or think that we old fogeys know it.... (Also because it was used for so long in popular literature, when "f***" wasn't allowed.....)

I know, its almost like they don't think we used those 'cuss' tricks as kids!

I have Irish relatives and I love "Fecking", as used in Father Ted. The only problem is, when I use it on American sites, they think I've made it up!

I agree, "What the frell?" is brilliant. I loved Farscape - well, up until the point when the two John's got seperated and then it got a bit silly.

I loved that part of farscape. I'm odd like that! I also loved it more when scorpios was in john's head....those images and the way it was done was just sheer brilliance, although I think Im the only person who thinks so.

 

[Green]

I couldn't get into Farscape. It was like watching the muppet show, in space.

 

[dustinzgirl]

I couldn't get into Farscape. It was like watching the muppet show, in space.

Which is what made it the coolest show ever!

 

[Interference]

Consider your target audience...

I thought it deserved repeating.

Firefly used some pretty rough Chinese cusses. Father Ted got away with 'feck' because in the Irish language it's a legit word.

The Lone Ranger was calling his native American pal an idiot every time he called him Tonto. And unless my sources are wrong, Kimosabe was actually "que no sabe" which means "who knows nothing". They were a 19th century double-act, really!

It might be an idea, depending on your setting, to look for inspiration in other languages you characters might be familiar with.

 

[Spectrum]

Yes, that one amuses me, because of the origins of the term... and the fact that so few either know it, or think that we old fogeys know it.... (Also because it was used for so long in popular literature, when "f***" wasn't allowed.....)

So what is your point? That people should stop using corrupted oaths and use the original oaths instead? If so, I agree. Euphemisms suck. Or is it that people should stop swearing at all, even with corrupted swear words? If so, then you're crazy.

 

[j d worthington]

My point is pretty much what Dustie said... I just find it amusing that the kids think we don't understand that sort of thing... because most of us pulled the same stunt when we were that age.... It's like this idea a lot of kids seem to have that older folks never heard of the concept of sex... or at least, that it could be fun....

EDIT: Well, that and the fact that, as a person who loves language, I find the alterations and subtle flavorings of meanings (even with rather blunt words like this) fascinating....

No, I'm by no means against having characters use such words, as long as they're appropriate for the character. As I think I said in one of my earlier posts, no words should be off limits... they should just be used where appropriate (where they help to develop character or a reader's image of a society) rather than thrown in just for "shock" value, or somesuch....

 

[Spectrum]

My point is pretty much what Dustie said... I just find it amusing that the kids think we don't understand that sort of thing... because most of us pulled the same stunt when we were that age.... It's like this idea a lot of kids seem to have that older folks never heard of the concept of sex... or at least, that it could be fun....

I see it more like a creative way to get around a bunch of pointless, arbitrary prohibitions (you might call it an evil virtue).

I use euphemisms sometimes myself, such as "fricking". From my POV, it's not meant to fool anyone, it's simply in acknowledgement of the fact that the true word I actually mean is forbidden in the medium I am using. I will be damned before I give up my right to swear, so I have to bend the rules.

Know what I am saying?

 

[j d worthington]

Oh, indeed... Incidentally, I think it's rather good to be creative with swearing, just as with any other type of speech. It avoids being repetitive, for one thing.

I'm not sure I'd call "fricking" a euphemism, though. It's a variant of "fr**ging", which could mean either copulation or m*********** (in earlier usages, it generally referred to the latter, from what I understand -- certainly it was so in the instances I've come across it, from the latter 17th-early 18th centuries); so it's more of a dialectical variant than a euphemism.

 

[Spectrum]

Oh, indeed... Incidentally, I think it's rather good to be creative with swearing, just as with any other type of speech. It avoids being repetitive, for one thing.

I'm not sure I'd call "fricking" a euphemism, though. It's a variant of "fr**ging", which could mean either copulation or m*********** (in earlier usages, it generally referred to the latter, from what I understand -- certainly it was so in the instances I've come across it, from the latter 17th-early 18th centuries); so it's more of a dialectical variant than a euphemism.

So "to frick" is an actual (and old) word? LOL, cool, I didn't know that. Kind of like how "dork" originally means "penis".

 

[j d worthington]

As I said, it's a dialectical variant that's been around for some time. (And, if you're interested in such things, the etymology of the "true" word, "fr*g", dates back to the 15th century; it's from a late Middle English word signifying "to quiver", and was originally used to mean to move about randomly; rub -- usage about 1425-75).

 

[Interference]

Anyone remember Red Dwarf - or Porridge? The seemingly invented prison slang turns out to have some really rather overt gay sub-text, if it's possible to have an overt sub-text. There must be millions of every-day subversive slang words in common sub-cultural use. Sub, for example, meaning submarine, being a description of a particularly potent piece of wedding tackle. Some subs are positively nuclear, others are in permanent dry-dock. I just made all that up. It's all a bit N.A.F.F., really, isn't it?

 

[Spectrum]

Anyone remember Red Dwarf - or Porridge? The seemingly invented prison slang turns out to have some really rather overt gay sub-text, if it's possible to have an overt sub-text. There must be millions of every-day subversive slang words in common sub-cultural use. Sub, for example, meaning submarine, being a description of a particularly potent piece of wedding tackle. Some subs are positively nuclear, others are in permanent dry-dock. I just made all that up. It's all a bit N.A.F.F., really, isn't it?

N.A.F.F.?

 

[Interference]

'Not Available For F***ing' - it's a gay slang ref to a hetero, now sometimes used in English English to denegrate an object, experience or person, as in: "It was a naff party, the DJ played naff all that was any naffing good all naffing night." Popularised in the Dick Clements and Ian la Frenais UK sit-com Porridge featuring Ronnie Barker who would occasionally exclaim, "Naff orff, Godber!".

Educational or what?

 

[Spectrum]

'Not Available For F***ing' - it's a gay slang ref to a hetero, now sometimes used in English English to denegrate an object, experience or person, as in: "It was a naff party, the DJ played naff all that was any naffing good all naffing night." Popularised in the Dick Clements and Ian la Frenais UK sit-com Porridge featuring Ronnie Barker who would occasionally exclaim, "Naff orff, Godber!".

Educational or what?

So it's like how "gay" is also used as a pejorative?

 

[Anthony G Williams]

So it's like how "gay" is also used as a pejorative?

Maybe not, because I doubt that the great majority of people knew what "naff" stood for - I didn't until a few months ago, and it's been in use for decades.

I suppose it's more like the US expression "that sucks!", which I've heard very polite girls use. They'd probably be shocked to learn of the connection with fellatio, and "naff" is a lot less obvious.

Or even "screw the pooch" - having sex with a dog seems an odd pastime...

 

[Spectrum]

Or even "screw the pooch" - having sex with a dog seems an odd pastime...

OMG, is that a slang term? What does it mean? (I.e., how is it used?)

 

[Anthony G Williams]

OMG, is that a slang term? What does it mean? (I.e., how is it used?)

You can pick from the definitions here: Urban Dictionary: screw the pooch

Basically it means to make a complete mess of something.

 

[Interference]

I think Screwing the Pooch is a corruption of Screwing the Pouch, the pouch in question being your own scrotum - which gives us another lovely insult word in "You scrote!" - and in screwing the pouch yourself, you have completely missed the appropriate target and, in a more baudlerised version of the expression, shot yourself in the foot.

I don't have sources for this, but it could also be as early as 17th century, where the pouch was a type of condom made from pig's bladder and the phrase meant, roughly, to serve no productive purpose.

As far as I know, it has nothing to do with doggies, though I and my meagre sources could be wrong.

 

[Lord Mureth]

Hmmm, I read this with interest; mainly because several of the characters in my story really do need a good lesson in the correct and polite use of English! One of them in particular (a small rodent) swears almost constantly. It's mostly in context, but I'm beginning to wonder if I haven't overdone it; to the point where I've invented a few words for him (which may bear the odd relationship to a certain word beginning with "F") rather than have him constantly uttering expletives the whole time. Well, they're still expletives, just not known ones.

My story's a pretty dark, pretty adult comic fantasy; and the bad language was originally intended to be part of parcel of it. Thing is, of course, am I shooting myself in the foot here; would it be more saleable without such copious bad language?

Guess I'm probably answering my own question here, but any thoughts would be appreciated.