Anyone else disappointed with Lies of Locke Lamora/Ash?

[shadow9d9]

What if the trees are supposed to look different than we're used to? Perhaps there's a reason why the floor looks like it does and perhaps it's important that you know what the author has imagined instead of what you have.

So there's no difference between, say Naomi Novik's Temeraire books and Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey and Maturin books? Same sort of plot and same sort of characters, but I'd say the background world makes a bit of difference...

And while O'Brian's books may not be SF, the world they are set in are so different to our own that it might as well be utterly alien. I'm glad that O'Brian did his research and fills in the little details that my imagination has no way to correctly conjure since I haven't studied that time period.

Insulting those who disagree with you does not lend a lot of credence to your argument, IMO.

If the trees look a certain way for a REASON, then it is plot related, and important. We are talking about endless descriptions just to describe things-worldbuilding that is not plot related.

And it wasn't an insult, it was an observation.

 

[shadow9d9]

I think you are wrong, shadow9d9. In my experience, the people who have the most imagination and the greatest ability to visualize things are the very ones who take the most delight in a well-written descriptive passage. It seems that they have more of the capacity to appreciate and enjoy these things.

Your feelings about complex worldbuilding and the descriptions of same seem to be similar to my reaction to long, detailed passages of tech-speak. Descriptions of technology and how it works bore me to tears; I don't find them entertaining at all. But I don't regard them as padding. They are there for those who enjoy them and are able to appreciate them; I just don't happen to be one of those people.

I also think you are wrong that readers are eager to hype new authors. As a general rule, they avoid new authors, unless someone else is already hyping them. (Although once the hype begins, there can certainly be a band-wagon effect.)

That said, I, too, was disappointed in Lies. Because of all the praise I had heard -- and the terms in which people where praising it -- I was expecting something extraordinary. For me, the first part of the book delivered on that promise, but as the story went on, I found myself caring less and less whether Locke and his friends succeeded or not, and the setting and the story seemed less and less original. I think if I had read the book without such high expectations, I would have been impressed. With them, the book was something of a let-down. I wish I could have read it under different circumstances.

The comment about new authors seems to actually be the case though-abercrombie, rothfuss, lynch, etc all have been hyped lately.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The comment about new authors seems to actually be the case though-abercrombie, rothfuss, lynch, etc all have been hyped lately.

Well, there's hype, and there's word-of-mouth by people who have read a book and genuinely enjoyed it. Hype is when a book is mentioned so often that people start going out to buy it whether or not they have any expectation of enjoying it, basically because everyone else is reading it and they're curious. These same people then go on to talk about the book, because it's topical, even though most of them had a lukewarm reaction to it. The Da Vinci Code is a good example.

The books you mention seem to have struck a chord with the very readers most likely to spread the word on favorite new books, which is to say, the online reading community. Nevertheless, I mentioned some of these books on a panel at a SFF convention recently, and no one in the room had heard of them. If word-of-mouth on these books had reached hyperbolic proportions, I would have thought that someone in that gathering of hardcore fans would have at least recognized the titles.

And at the same time that these books were coming out, there have been plenty of debut novels that slipped by almost completely unnoticed.

 

[Blue Tyson]

Just curious as to what the thoughts of others are... My wife and I both gave up on the book at pages 75 and 50 respectively. Way too much descripton and a story that is completely unoriginal-has been done wayyy too many times before.

I also gave Secret History of Ash book 1 a shot... got about 250 pages into it... felt most of the characters to be underdeveloped.. nothing much ever happened... just felt average too...

I try to read new series and authors after coming off of high books(so my patience will be higher).. just finished the amazing Lions of Al-Rassan : ). I have since started The Scar and am enjoying it at page 100. Perdido Street Station had a lot of potential, was slightly above average overall and I am hoping he has grown as an author for this one!

I agree that the start was really bad and boring as far as Locke Lamora goes, it did improve after that, but I almost gave it away at page 60 or so, much like you. I almost suspect editor padding to get to 'X length because it has to be X length' perhaps. 500 page caper book is not the best idea, really, those are supposed to be snappy.

Haven't heard of the other book you mention.

 

[Frozeninja]

Haven't read Ash but I definitely wasn't disappointed with Lies.

The first 100 pages I was somewhat unsure of the book as Lynch is pretty much telling two stories at the same time and I wasn't quite sure if I loved it or hated it. After the first 100 pages though I never looked back and thoroughly enjoyed the book, though I hadn't expected the book to tie up everything in the one volume.

I then moved onto Red Seas Under Red Skies a few days ago, and in my opinion it was actually better than Lies, something I really wasn't expecting when I picked it up. The focus shifts dramatically from Lies where it was more based on the "games" that the Gentlemen Bastards set up and the plans, to Red Skies which seems to center more on the relationship between the Gentlemen Bastards. A brilliant read.

 

[Caine]

My 2 cents--

I enjoyed LoLL immensely, though the book didn't quite grip until Chapter 5 (The Gray King chapter). The long interludes in the beginning also brought the momentum of the book to a screeching halt. Haven't read Ash.

Unfortunately, I don't get all the hype with Rothfuss' The Name of the Wind. I can't stand retrospective melancholy and The Name of the Wind serves up a healthy dose of it in a flashback. Seems like the new fad these days is to have plenty of melancholy in flashbacks. Quit your whining!

 

[soulsinging]

I agree that the start was really bad and boring as far as Locke Lamora goes, it did improve after that, but I almost gave it away at page 60 or so, much like you. I almost suspect editor padding to get to 'X length because it has to be X length' perhaps. 500 page caper book is not the best idea, really, those are supposed to be snappy.

Haven't heard of the other book you mention.

I feel the same way about the length. A caper novel needs to move quick, mirroring the wit and dexterity of its characters.

I struggled with Locke Lamora at first. It did start slow and meandered far too much. I actually kept going for the same reason the original poster hated it... the description. Lynch really brought Camorr to life and it was fascinating. The book did pick up in the end and finished strong. However, the second book, rather than correcting the problems of the first, amplified them.

Someone above mentioned Locke stealing clothes near the end of the first book as a momentum killer. I noticed that Lynch did this far too much... tossing in ridiculous and unnecessary little side adventures that slow things down and are not very interesting. Every interlude in the second book could be lost without doing any harm to the plot... especially the scene on the cliff.

The second book was a huge disappointment really. The first 300 pages are crushingly boring and set up a caper plot that is dropped, only to be resolved as an afterthought in about 6 pages at the end of the book. It was awful. In addition, I don't find Locke a particularly compelling protagonist.

In short, the first book was worth a read, but I think I'm done with this series. Lynch is a talented writer (the battle on the ships at the end of book 2 was thrilling), but he needs to work on controlling his plots and pacing and characterization.

 

[elvet]

I loved Lies - the humor, off beat characters, the sense of the caper, and ultimately the sweetness of revenge. Red Seas was not as good IMHO, but still an enjoyable read and enough of a good time to keep me buying this series.
Ash, an the other hand, I just gave up on after getting about halfway through. It was too long and draggy and I had no compassion for the main character. The premise of the story was what kept me going as far as I did. I thought that part intriguing, but not enough to bolster my negatives.

 

[Stephen Aryan]

Absolutely loved Lies of Locke Lamora. Only discovered Scott Lynch last year and bought both books on the strength of a recommendation. Couldn't put the first book down, really enjoyed it, and it was one of my favourite books of last year.

I didn't find the story slow or boring as some have said, it very nicely set up the scene of who he was and where he came from for me. Thoroughly enjoyed it and can't wait to read the next book.

An exciting new voice in fantasy for me, great stuff.

 

[Toby Frost]

I've only read Lies, so I can't comment on Ash. I read Lies after it was reccomended to me on this forum, and I had not heard of it before: I guess the hype didn't reach me.

I was not disappointed with Lies, although it has its flaws (as does everything!). I didn't like the thin characterisation of Locke, which made him uninteresting. I also disliked the episode with the bank towards the end, which slowed the pace greatly and I suspect was in there to bump the word-count to "proper fantasy novel length". The endless japery between the thieves bored me a little, but that's just personal preference.

The backstory worked fine: it was entertaining, and set up the various characters well (in particular the criminal underworld and Barsavi's past). It was, I suggest, not mere padding but vital in making the book's setting something deeper and more original than just another D&D "thieves' guild".

However, for me the real importance of Lies is that it got published at all. It is proof that fantasy can be comical, gritty, foul-mouthed and set in a really unusual world, especially one without epic conflicts. It shows that there is potential for variety and originality in a no-gunpowder, roughly-medieval fantasy setting that, to be honest, is often thin on the ground. As a result, it seems to me to be a good thing in itself, almost (but not quite) regardless of quality.

 

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I too have a knack for avoiding hype. I picked it up after asking for recommendations on another forum, and I though it was quite good. Entertaining, is perhaps the best term. Wasn't sold on it in the beginning, but boy did it get better when things got turned on their head a bit into the story. The ending was perhaps a little over-hollywoodish action-stylish for me to enjoy fully, though. The language and style is certainly refreshing, but I can't help but feel it wears on me in the long run.

Have to disagree about the bank sequence, though; I thought that was a wonderful piece of fast-paced thinking while on the move. No it's not terribly story related but it entertained me.

Do I like long descriptions? I'm indifferent. Anything works as long as the writing is good enough. I certainly do not share the original poster's opinion of it being useless to describe "fake worlds". I want to immerse myself! But then I'm the kind of person who can spend hours reading about middle-earth just because it's an interesting world.

 

[Nikitta]

I see now that the last time I posted in this thread, I hadn't read any of those books. Well, time has passed and now I have and I must say that I belong under the banner of those who enjoyed them very much and I didn't find that they had too much description at all.

 

[hedgeknight]

Finished Lies of Locke Lamora only an hour ago and loved every freakin' page! Could hardly put it down. Thanks to everyone on here who built up the hype. Looking forward to buying book 2 this week.

 

[Mastermizery]

i loved lies of lock lamora, but i got about halfway into red seas under red skys(the sequel) and was dissapointed in it.

 

[shadow9d9]

Finished Lies of Locke Lamora only an hour ago and loved every freakin' page! Could hardly put it down. Thanks to everyone on here who built up the hype. Looking forward to buying book 2 this week.

Most people tend to like comfort books, cliched stories that they've read 1000 times before. I'm not one of them. They bore me to death.

 

[Frozeninja]

Most people tend to like comfort books, cliched stories that they've read 1000 times before. I'm not one of them. They bore me to death.

Cliche? I wasn't aware that there were too many stories where the main protagonists are thieves.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I'd like to see a list of these books that make it a cliche.

I enjoyed Lies immensely. I thought it was one of the most original books I've ever read. I loved how the book and characters care nothing for good and evil and high-minded philosophy. Its an unapologetic action novel, a rollicking good ride, and it captivated me from beginning to end. I adored it. Its sequel is even better in some ways. It has pirates.

 

[ratsy]

LoLL was for one thing, an original story. I thought Scott Lynch did a great job in every aspect of the story...setting was great...characters were developed and original...story was well told and had enough turns that I was reading while travelling in circles. I did find the language a little excessive but I am not one to really be bothered by it. I havent picked up the sequel but I will be when my TBR pile is down a few.

 

[shadow9d9]

Being lazy, I found a link with quite a few-

Tagmash: fantasy, thieves | LibraryThing

http://www.librarything.com/tag/fantasy,thief

Taltos Series, Discworld series, Rats and Gargoyles, there is a thief in every epic fantasy... Not to mention the billions of assassin books, which are very very similar to thieves.

Here is a list of billions of assassin/thief books-

Tagmash: assassins, fantasy | LibraryThing

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Because character archetypes are cliches? I was thinking you meant actually related and relevant works.

You might as well say swords or horses or cities are cliches.