Is Shakespeare Irrelevant...

[Connavar]

Wow. While I was certainly expecting some responses, I must admit that I'm a bit surprised (and pleased) with the intensity of the responses above....

Yes, the entire thing sort of struck me as having about the same level of sense as giving someone a degree in architecture without them having even a basic understanding of such factors as... oh, say... gravity.....

What did you expect


Asking about a man we spend half of our school life studiying all his work and even come to admire his work and skill.

Heck all those so called prestige American colleges who doesnt have Shakespeare should be dumped from the best University in the world list.

If more people knew about this im sure it would be another reason to say " sheesh these americans, whats next..."



Must say i dont think highly about American University schools now.

 

[j d worthington]

Fortunately, he's not entirely left aside. I recall that, when my (then-)wife went through UT, she took a course in Shakespeare as part of her requirements -- and because she'd grown up reading Shakespeare on her own, she had something of an advantage....

I know that there are still some prestige schools where the older standards apply, but they are becoming fewer and fewer, I'm afraid. This is a part of what I've complained about for a very long time as a trend in American education. I've nothing against innovation in education as long as it is something that is (or stands a good chance of being) beneficial to genuine education (including a better understanding of life, the human condition, and critical thinking, dammit!!!), but when the fundamentals of our literary history are removed from literature courses... something is grievously wrong here.....

 

[The Ace]

Oh come on, he's as irrelevant as the electric guitar to pop music, the 35mm SLR to photography, the internal combustion engine to motor transport or the wing to aviation. Surely we can all do without such small details.

 

[HardScienceFan]

well,over here there are ever more complaints to be heard of university students not mastering elementary spelling,grammar and arithmatic to the required degree.PLus there's been a lot of hullaballo about geography and history....
"is it really necessary to learn about Charlemagne,the Romans,the Greeks,the Renaissance,to know what happened when?

is it really necessary to be able to locate Cologne or Oslo on a map?
well strictly speaking,even an education isn't necessary in life
Just wear a Harvard tie,say you knew such and such "back in the days",
play golf with some CEO's and you're in

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

well,over here there are ever more complaints to be heard of university students not mastering elementary spelling,grammar and arithmatic to the required degree.

well strictly speaking,even an education isn't necessary in life
Just wear a Harvard tie,say you knew such and such "back in the days",
play golf with some CEO's and you're in

What a travesty that this "trade school" mentality prevails everywhere in the world: i.e. where higher education is only being pursued for economic advantage (higher wage levels), not to enrich one's life. It's crass. It's vulgar. It's short-sighted. And I suspsect, that it is largely encouraged by the corporations who essentially own/control and/or exercise an undue influence upon our school system beginning at the elementary level - everything from the swill our children eat in the cafeterias to the overpriced textbooks they're required to buy (but don't read) to the buildings where they attend classes.

And yes, you're observation is spot on. Sadly though, cronyism (and nepotism) has always been rife in the more competitive circles. It seems that talent and industry are only given limited rewards in this life!

 

[brsrkrkomdy]

Hell, even Lovecraft is familiar with Shakespeare! Otherwise he wouldn't have come up with such terms as "blasted heath" in his "Colour Out Of Space"! Or better yet, the film "Forbidden Planet" being the reworking of The Tempest. Especially Ray Bradbury with his "Something Wicked This Way Comes".
Studying English without Shakespeare is like celebrating a 4th Of July without fireworks. And to think some other group getting dismayed by their president that said that obtaining a English degree without studying Shakespeare is tantamount to a fraud. I'd dare say that group doth protest too much. "Irrelevant"? ********.

 

[j d worthington]

Yes, that's been a growing trend -- the confusion between "university" and "trade school" ... each is perfectly valid, but they are NOT the same... or shouldn't be....

 

[HardScienceFan]

yes Curt over here it's the same thing : schools ought to fit their curriculum more to the current needs of the corporate world..
hence such vague subjects as "communications science",which everyone seems to be studying nowadays,"corporate marketing",and what not
WTF people nowadays can't distinguish "grafitti" from 'gravity',i see 'in
principal' instead of 'in principle',and people can't tell Hoboken from
Nagasaki.And Bismarck,wasn't he the drummer of Journey?
See, in principle Skinner is a principal.

 

[Pyan]

Plus there is the influence he had on English. I knew that he had coined a few words but was amazed when I googled it - this is from About.com

Below is a list of a few of the words Shakespeare coined, hyperlinked to the play and scene from which it comes. When the word appears in multiple plays, the link will take you to the play in which it first appears. academe accused addiction advertising amazement arouse assassination backing bandit bedroom beached besmirch birthplace blanket bloodstained barefaced blushing bet bump buzzer caked cater champion circumstantial cold-blooded compromise courtship countless critic dauntless dawn deafening discontent dishearten drugged dwindle epileptic equivocal elbow excitement exposure eyeball fashionable fixture flawed frugal generous gloomy gossip green-eyed gust hint hobnob hurried impede impartial invulnerable jaded label lackluster laughable lonely lower luggage lustrous madcap majestic marketable metamorphize mimic monumental moonbeam mountaineer negotiate noiseless obscene obsequiously ode olympian outbreak panders pedant premeditated puking radiance rant remorseless savagery scuffle secure skim milk submerge summit swagger torture tranquil undress unreal varied vaulting worthless zany

Amazing is the word! And they say this man's work is irrelevant??

 

[HardScienceFan]

just goes to show Py,the effing blighters don't half know what they're yakking about.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

yes Curt over here it's the same thing : schools ought to fit their curriculum more to the current needs of the corporate world..
hence such vague subjects as "communications science",which everyone seems to be studying nowadays,"corporate marketing",and what not
WTF people nowadays can't distinguish "grafitti" from 'gravity',i see 'in
principal' instead of 'in principle',and people can't tell Hoboken from
Nagasaki.And Bismarck,wasn't he the drummer of Journey?
See, in principle Skinner is a principal.

This is the dark byproduct of a pernicious, predatory form of capitalism that's currently being practised in the western world. In a bygone era and place (pre-World War I Europe) patronage of the arts - although certainly motivated by less noble reasons like competiveness, compulsive acquisitiveness and personal vanity - was considered one's civic duty. Yes, I know, this is all quaintly risable to the younger generations, but it used to be considered in deadly earnest at a time in the not-too-distant past.

And look at the roll call of geniuses those societies produced and openly admired: Klimt, Mozart, Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, (Richard and Otto) Wagner, Hugo, Rachmaninov, Saint-Gaudens, Sargent, Hanslick, Faberge, Galle, Gerome, Waterhouse, Korngold, Mahler, Moser, Lizst, Dore, Urban, Leffler, Bernhardt, Bakst, Fokine, Nyjinsky, Ballet Russes, Wiener Werkstatte . . . . the list of luminaries and their masterpieces goes on and on.

Now contrast this with the "best and brightest" touted by our own era: Britney Spears, Andy Warhol, Jeffrey Koons, Michael Jackson, Ice T, Richard Serra, Yanni, Jose Conseco, Don Imus, Larry King, Martha Stewart, Julia Roberts, Kurt Cobain, Donald Trump, Paris Hilton . . . .

The amount of ink spilled on their behalf by the media equaled or exceeded that of the prior list in their heyday. Using this as a cultural barometer, one can only come to the conclusion that these are the pace-setters whom we as a society chose to emulate, those who reflect our values the most.

If so, may the Elder Gods help us.

As the old adage goes: ye shall reap as ye shall sow . . . .

 

[HardScienceFan]

right now were sowing bovine fecal matter,so...

 

[Rosemary]

Plus there is the influence he had on English. I knew that he had coined a few words but was amazed when I googled it - this is from About.com

Amazing is the word! And they say this man's work is irrelevant??

That is a great site Pyan! I knew he had coined new words and phrases but not that many!

I think it's one of those sites that should be bookmarked and read by serious writers, readers and those going through University.

 

[Abbot]

I dont think shakespeare is irrelevent but i think they need to admit that modern day rappers of the day are the shakespeares of today. Cause mainly I dont understand a word of wat shakespear said or those rappers lol. But they express themsevles the same ways.

 

[Pyan]

Come on, Abbott!

Lil' Bosie:

Red bones caramel all of em stop and stare all of em try and steal my underwear (wipe me down)
I like to floss like Rick Ross got a hit called set it off when i sing it everybody set it off (wipe me down)
Black mink damn im on play wit me i bust ya dome 8 whips on chrome you can gon (wipe me down)
Fresh fade fresh j's on the corner playin spades im an ordinary person but im paid (wipe me down)
Foxx flippin Webbie smokin and we chokin on a whole pound of purple famous lik tha ninja turtles (wipe me down)

Big Bill:

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

The same way? It's only just the same language!



​

 

[bruno-1012]

I suggest skipping Plato,Aristotle and Hegel for Philosophy classes
skipping Count Basie and the Duke for Big Band Arranging,
Kokoschka and Hopper for 20th century art
and Bohr and Heisenberg for modern physics

While we are at it, lets skip Varro, Frued, Thomas Jefferson...

Heck, why bother teaching the arts at all, its not like you need arts to work for the man.

Lets forget about Webster and Cobbe for signal design....

But, on a serious note, how can we ignore someone whose body of work still resonates to this day?

I have posted elsewhere about the Edinburgh Film festival which will be showing Olivier in 3 Shakespeare rolls Hamlet, Henry V and Richard III.

Don't think I can see them all but Henry V - the combination of the play and the events around the film make this a must see on the big screen.

Didn't do enough during my school studies but picked up more on my own. I do find it a bit difficult just reading the plays but seeing them performed - there is real power in almost every line!

 

[Abbot]

just because the way ppl express themselves today doesnt mean its any different then the way they spoke before.

 

[chrispenycate]

A Hamlet roll; do I get lettuce on the side?
Not merely lit'rature was influenced
The English tongue is permiated by the Bard.
He, and the bible, found a fertile field;
Two tongues in parallel to merge and meld.
His structure lives on in our daily speech,
His metaphors the clichés to avoid,
So deep ensconsèd in our language use.
And now they would divorce us from our roots
To leave us orphanned, homeless, destitute?

 

[HardScienceFan]

well said Chris

 

[Allegra]

Hear, hear, Chris' Muse speaking...