Jaqen H'ghar

[JDP]

The fact that we don't actually see Syrio die doesn't mean that he must be alive; the chapter was written from Arya's POV, so we leave the action when she does. I don't think he's alive.

 

[TK-421]

I have reflected on this because I too did find Syrio's death "offscreen" somewhat suspect. But, being the type of character Syrio was, I think his death was fitting and for GRRM to have graphically put it in the books, may not be suitable to Syrio. Don't know, but just trying to make sense of it I guess.

 

[Boaz]

Regarding Syrio's encounter with Ser Meryn of the Kingsguard...

First, Ser Meryn survived. Syrio killed or wounded five Red Cloaks, but not Meryn.

Second, Syrio sent Arya away. If Syrio planned on killing Meryn and escorting Arya to safety, then he'd have killed Meryn. Meryn survived.

Mayhaps, Syrio ran away from Meryn. But remember, Syrion tut-tutted Arya and said something like, "The first sword of Braavos does not run."

So Syrio and Meryn faced off with weapons. Syrio would not run. Meryn survived. I think the conclusion is that Ser Meryn chopped Syrio into many pieces.

 

[Shacklock]

Regarding Syrio's encounter with Ser Meryn of the Kingsguard...

First, Ser Meryn survived. Syrio killed or wounded five Red Cloaks, but not Meryn.

Second, Syrio sent Arya away. If Syrio planned on killing Meryn and escorting Arya to safety, then he'd have killed Meryn. Meryn survived.

Mayhaps, Syrio ran away from Meryn. But remember, Syrion tut-tutted Arya and said something like, "The first sword of Braavos does not run."

So Syrio and Meryn faced off with weapons. Syrio would not run. Meryn survived. I think the conclusion is that Ser Meryn chopped Syrio into many pieces.

Meryn was wearing full-plate I think? And although Syrio only had a stick I wouldent think a Knight encumbered in full-plate could kill the dude that just killed five Red-Cloaks with a stick xD

 

[JDP]

I wouldent think a Knight encumbered in full-plate could kill the dude that just killed five Red-Cloaks with a stick xD

I think it's way more likely that a guy in full plate with a sword could kill a guy with a stick than vice versa

Plus, I don't reckon a Knight of the Kingsguard would be 'encumbered' by their armour -- that's how they do battle.

 

[Shacklock]

I think it's way more likely that a guy in full plate and a sword could kill a guy with a stick than vice versa

Plus, I don't reckon a Knight of the Kingsguard would be 'encumbered' by their armour -- that's how they do battle.

To be fair, everyone that wears Heavy-Plate moves slowly. I'm pretty sure such a Skilled-Water dancer could repeat the tactitcs Bronn used in the Eyrie, or at least something simmilair.
That is, dancing around and out of the narrow view the Knight has.

 

[Boaz]

Shack, but Syrio said he would not run away and we know that Meryn survived. So are you suggesting that Meryn got tired and left? Is Syrio still upstairs waiting for someone to take him on?

Syrio was fast... to Arya. But we see him unable to get his wooden sword out of Meryn's way. Meryn chopped Syrio's stick to pieces. I think Syrio was next.

Granted, we don't see what happened, but it'll take a lot of evidence to convince me that Syrio somehow survived that encounter.

 

[Shacklock]

Shack, but Syrio said he would not run away and we know that Meryn survived. So are you suggesting that Meryn got tired and left? Is Syrio still upstairs waiting for someone to take him on?

Syrio was fast... to Arya. But we see him unable to get his wooden sword out of Meryn's way. Meryn chopped Syrio's stick to pieces. I think Syrio was next.

Granted, we don't see what happened, but it'll take a lot of evidence to convince me that Syrio somehow survived that encounter.

Yea me too, but he could have grabbed a sword from one of the dead guys, knocked Meryn out somehow. Etc.
Granted, he probably is dead. I'm just arguing the other side.

 

[Boaz]

I'm just arguing the other side.

I like to do that too.

Hey, I've been convinced to switch positions on ASOIAF almost as many times as Hilary Clinton's switched her position on Iraq. So if you give me some good evidence, I'll reconsider Syrio. Heck, even if you don't I may switch positions tomorrow anyway.

 

[TK-421]

Unless, Meryn recognized Syrio, knew who he was, didn't want to die, and gave him the chance to escape to Varys...

 

[JDP]

I think the obvious solution is that Syrio is actually Ned, who is actually alive, having faked his own decapitation (the old 'pull the head down into the sweater' routine gets 'em every time). Ned is soon to return, riding Lady, with his pockets full of dragons, to tell Jon that he is actually his trueborn, legitimate son.

Together, they will then go to where Robb and Un-Cat have been waiting (pretending to be dead after faking their murders). Arya will come skipping in with Bran, who will shed leg braces quicker than Forrest Gump. Hodor will leap onto the table crying, "God bless us, every one!" and they'll all laugh and say "Oh, that Howland Reed, he had us going for a while." Sansa will proudly declare that she knew it all along, before swooning into Loras' waiting arms.

Never forget you heard it here first.

 

[Young stormlord]

Congratz. I just wet my pants laughing because of you. But it's in the wrong thread.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I am slow, or I just skipped to much. I didn't even think there was enough info given about Jaqen to identify him again.

Okay, I admit it: I've skipped way too many paragraphs because I am impatient, and now it's caught up me.

I have to go back now to read those details.

Oh, and in the last book, I almost completely skipped the chapters of the newer POV characters. Maybe I will have to make those up, too. Are they worth reading? I just want Ned Stark back!

 

[DeannaBelle]

I do remember that jaqen was compared to Syrio in one of Arya's POV chapters, the one where he was first introduced to us.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Good theories. We do know for a fact in FFC that Arya's PoV described some people in the faceless mens' Temple. I think Mopatis was seen more than once, no? I cannot recall the others she saw.

 

[Boaz]

CS, Arya saw Illyrio in the House of Black and White? Really? I just read AFFC and did not pick up on this at all... Dang it! I need to re-read the Arya chapters asap.

Deanna, iirc, Arya thought that Jaqen's speech patterns reminded her of Syrio. I'd like to ask Aegon to look this up, but I've not seen him in here in over a week. He must be off doing the hero thing.

 

[Charming Serpent]

I was fairly certain, Boaz, but i would have to reread it again. I also wanted to say she saw Euron too, but I cannot remember. I'm going to reread the chapters myself too. I know she doesn't know them by name or even by appearance, but I remember her describing people who came and went and that had crooked brown teeth and was fat (large or big, cant remember the exact wording. I know for certain that Mopatis's teeth were just that, but like I said, I could be completely wrong until i re-read.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Ok, I found the entry. I have the hardback version so on page 325, the second Arya chapter, she is in the Temple and she sees "The fat fellow, who had fierce black eyes, a hook nose, and a wide mouth full of yellow teeth." She then talks about other visitors and describes them. She also makes note of how the fat fellow and and the "squinter" come together to the Temple.

Now, once again, I could be entirely going the wrong way with this Mopatis theory, but it was the one that popped into my head so ... talk amongst yourselves now.

 

[Boaz]

No, no, no. Keep expounding. I cannot recall a previous physical description of Illyrio... I mean I know he's in the first few Dany chapters and once in Arya's POV when she's below the Red Keep, but he's around so little that I don't remember anything about him except for his plumpness.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Hm, let me see if my memory will serve me ... when he is described in Dany's first PoV, I recall him being described as fat and most certainly about having crooked yellow teeth. I know that for a fact. I seem to recall a few words about his eyes too. Them being black though I can't recall about fierce. I know Arya sees him also under the Red Keep when she gets lost, while he is speaking to Varys, whom is in disguise. (I'd give you word for word descriptions, but alas, my friend has Game of Thrones.) Try looking that up in Dany's PoV up until after the wedding and Arya's when she hears the two fatties talking under the Red Keep.