SPOILERS: Theory on Jon

[hodor]

Others and I have come up with a theory on Jon. You see we don't believe he is actually the ******* son of Eddard. We believe he is Lyanna's son.. a by Rhaegar... Dany's half brother. And if you read and think about it carefully there are alot of things that point this direction. Hence comes the question: Knowing this do you think Jon will stay on The Wall or maybe when Dany comes .... ? As the rest of the family has done in the past.

Just food for thought.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Hmm, J=R+L... this sounds somewhat familiar...

The GRRM forum has circled this argument around so many times it isn't funny anymore The conclusion they've come to? Who knows. But they deride anyone who suggests it, so I expect not. http://b15.ezboard.com/basoiaf

 

[erickad71]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Do you post much over there cal? I love going over there just to see what crazy thing someone comes up with next!

I must admit that I had thought that Jon was not Eddard's son...but I didn't connect it to Rhaegar. Of course there was a lot of stuff that I missed the first time I read these books.

 

[hodor]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

i dont go that road caladanbrood... The title of the series is A Song of Ice and Fire... now if Jon was both Stark and Targeryen then that would make ICE AND FIRE plus we know Ned made a promise to his sister on her death bed and we could assume that was it... to not tell anyone. It has also been odd that Ned is soooo straight in other areas but just once fails himself... NO I dont buy it. We know Lyanna was raped by Rhaegar and we also know that the Lannister's would probably have had the child killed had they known it was Rhaegars. There are others who hold to the idea that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love and thats the way it went but I don't go that way.

 

[erickad71]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

But we don't know that Lyanna was raped. All we have are Ned's memories...and all he has mentioned is the promise he made to her on her death bed. He never reveals any anger towards Rhaegar, which he surely would have if he thought his sister was raped by him.

 

[hodor]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Yes, but Rhaegar is dead. I would follow with the belief Lyanna was raped merely because of the was Ned's father was killed... and if this was so why would Lyanna submit to him.

 

[erickad71]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Now I'm gonna have to go look up my books again so I can find the part I need to argue my point.

In one of the books we find out why/how his father was killed...and I'm pretty sure it was because Rhaegar's father was insane! But I will be back later with the exact part I'm thinking of.

 

[hodor]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Now I'm gonna have to go look up my books again so I can find the part I need to argue my point.

In one of the books we find out why/how his father was killed...and I'm pretty sure it was because Rhaegar's father was insane! But I will be back later with the exact part I'm thinking of.

He has been said to be insane.. yes.. but they were family. The same thing based on everything we have read in this series. But I know where you are going Ericka... the king was insane and boiled the man alive in his armor with his son trying to save him and that in itself killed him. Nonetheless... Rhaegar was his son.

 

[LadyFel]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

The theory I have is that Rhaegar and Lyanna tried to elope, but someone made it appear as though she was abducted and raped...

If you think about it, nowhere in the books so far is there any mention of any serious misdeeds by Rhaegar - everyone who was more than passing acquainted with him seems to be of the opinion that he was a good man, would have made a just king...Even Eddard seems to have a good opinion of him, and he had nothing to do with Ned's father's death, he wasn't even there, I think...Rhaegar just doesn't strike me like the type of person who would find pleasure in forcing himself on someone who didn't want him, and even less as being capable of risking civil war in the kingdom just to satisfy his personal lust...

The only one who derides him is Robert Baratheon (ok, and those around him), the question is WHY...I assume someone told him a 'decorated' version of what happened, knowing he wouldn'r stop to question the truth of the matter because it gave him an excuse to start a rebellion...Eddard keeps remembering his promise whenever Robert rails about the Targaryens, it has to be connected...

There's also the scene where Dany goes through that weird tower and opens some of the doors...something about 'one more' (I think she sees a couple standing over a crib and one of them says something about there being 'another'...why would she see that, all the other scenes had some sort of significance for her...)

And I have to agree with Hodor - for Ned to have strayed even once, knowing his rigid character? I doubt it very much...there's also the fact h+that he refuses to mention Jon's mother's name to anyone - I mean, if he was capable of siring a ******* child and openly having him brought up in his home, surely he would at least have told Catelyn 'look, her name was..., it happened, I'm sorry...'

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Yep, I think we covered this earlier.

Jon as the child of both - a loving couple. The clues are all there, just not stated. And it does indeed connect the title - of the north (ice) and of the dragons (fire) - Jon as the bridge connecting both.

 

[hodor]

I believe there IS a man that knows, and he is the Lord of the Swampland.

 

[erickad71]

Swampland?! Why, whatever do you mean?

 

[hodor]

It has been far to long since I read the series and I forget his name. He was Ned's friend and it is said he never leaves his castle. He sent his son and daughter to rob and now they are with bran. I believe that he knows the truth and maybe them too. Just another crackpot theory.

 

[erickad71]

I know, I was just being silly...hence the winking smiley.

His name is Howland Reed and I can't wait til he finally shows up!

 

[hodor]

Yeah it will be interesting to learn more about him.

 

[Rane Longfox]

erika - a bit. I post mainly on the "Other authors" board... I don't really know enough about the books, and their chat section is really scary. But I browse

I haven't made my own mind up about the theory, and, to be honest, I can't find myself caring. Will be interesting to find out though. As it seems to be the main point of discussion, maybe Gurm will end the series with the question being ever so close to being answered, but now quite, and aggravate us all. Now, that would be good.

 

[Fitz]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

And I have to agree with Hodor - for Ned to have strayed even once, knowing his rigid character? I doubt it very much...there's also the fact h+that he refuses to mention Jon's mother's name to anyone - I mean, if he was capable of siring a ******* child and openly having him brought up in his home, surely he would at least have told Catelyn 'look, her name was..., it happened, I'm sorry...'

LOL I really liked the last bit...
And I agree with a lot of the things you've already mentioned. Rhaegar's character is complemented by most who has ever known him, save for Robert and a few others. And that promise that Ned made to Lyanna seems to be VERY important, and I doubt it's just to bring her back home to be buried. Maybe she asked Ned to raise Jon as his ******* so Robert will not suspect that he is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar and kill him?
I think I'm pretty convinced that Jon is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar. Another question: is what will happen when/if Dany and Jon meet?

 

[Brian G Turner]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Maybe she asked Ned to raise Jon as his ******* so Robert will not suspect that he is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar and kill him?

Absolutely.

I think I'm pretty convinced that Jon is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar. Another question: is what will happen when/if Dany and Jon meet?

Depends on how risque GRRM wants to be. Logically, physical union between the two would make utter sense as a device to conclude plot - but then you're in realms of incest, and despite ancient historical precedents, it's possibly too taboo a subject for the commercial form of his work to dare touch upon.

So I expect they'll just emotionally connect (after fighting a bit), before Jon (leading the remaining knights and armies of the Seven Kingdoms), and Daenerys (leading her dragons and a countless legion of Drogo's riders), join together in a desperate battle to overcome what should have, by then, have become an utter swarm of "Others" across the continent.

The BIG problem is that Eddard took Lyanna's secret to his grave. Who can convincingly reveal Jon's identity - not simply to him, but also Daenerys?

I actually suspect that a part of GRRM did plan to write Eddard joining the black brothers up north, but that the story simply demanded his execution and he had to accede.

 

[erickad71]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Depends on how risque GRRM wants to be. Logically, physical union between the two would make utter sense as a device to conclude plot - but then you're in realms of incest, and despite ancient historical precedents, it's possibly too taboo a subject for the commercial form of his work to dare touch upon.

Ahhh, but have you forgotten Jaime and Cersei?

So I expect they'll just emotionally connect (after fighting a bit), before Jon (leading the remaining knights and armies of the Seven Kingdoms), and Daenerys (leading her dragons and a countless legion of Drogo's riders), join together in a desperate battle to overcome what should have, by then, have become an utter swarm of "Others" across the continent.

Personally, I don't think she will have any more of Drogo's riders than what she already has.

The BIG problem is that Eddard took Lyanna's secret to his grave. Who can convincingly reveal Jon's identity - not simply to him, but also Daenerys?

That person would be Howland Reed, who is supposed to show up either in the next book or the one after that.

 

[LadyFel]

Re: SPOILERS theory on jon

Depends on how risque GRRM wants to be. Logically, physical union between the two would make utter sense as a device to conclude plot - but then you're in realms of incest, and despite ancient historical precedents, it's possibly too taboo a subject for the commercial form of his work to dare touch upon.

If he was able to write in and have us accept the scenes between Jaime and Cersei, as well as the fact that all three royal children are their offspring, I don't put anything beyond him any more... I have a feeling this is also connected with Dany's apparent inability to bear any more children - the whole idea of a union between Jon and Dany is sort of mystical, would her womb finally recover?

The BIG problem is that Eddard took Lyanna's secret to his grave. Who can convincingly reveal Jon's identity - not simply to him, but also Daenerys?

Does anyone think Benjen Stark might know? I keep thinking of the Other who is now with Bran...I just think he's going to be pivotal to the story, and I also keep associating nim with Stark for some reason...As though he was turned but didn't lose his conscious self in the turning, he doesn't strike me as a mindless zombie...He seems determined to show Bran something...

maybe Gurm will end the series with the question being ever so close to being answered, but now quite, and aggravate us all. Now, that would be good

Either that, or he'll have read the various speculations on this point and decided 'Hell, no, I'm not going to be this predictable', and changed the rest of the plot...I think I'd pay him a little visit if that happened...

He sort of struck me as the kind of person who'd do something like that just to confuse people...