Anyone else getting BLOODY peeved off about A Dance With Dragons?

[Snagas Tender Blades]

I dont know about you lot but im gettin mighty impatient for GRRM to get off his fat arse and bloody finish the thing. I mean A Feast for Crows came out in 2005, and it wasn't even that great, but I thought 'well I've only got to wait about a year or so and aDWD should be amazing'. But no, we are still waiting. Its not like he hasnt got the talent or anything, is it?

Anyway now that Ive got that off my chest, how do you lot feel about this?

 

[Shacklock]

I dont know about you lot but im gettin mighty impatient for GRRM to get off his fat arse and bloody finish the thing. I mean A Feast for Crows came out in 2005, and it wasn't even that great, but I thought 'well I've only got to wait about a year or so and aDWD should be amazing'. But no, we are still waiting. Its not like he hasnt got the talent or anything, is it?

Anyway now that Ive got that off my chest, how do you lot feel about this?

No-point bitching. He'll be done when he's done andl lets hope he doesent die like Gemmel.

 

[Overread]

That I would rather wait 10 years for a masterpiece than 10 days for a shoddy half done bit of work.
Writing takes time - waiting is indeed a pain - but one cannot rush creation

 

[The Ace]

GRRM is the only one he hasn't killed off yet. I stumbled through it until the Red Wedding, but with so many decent characters killed off, he just seemed to be going for some kind of record.
My personal theory is that he's run out of characters and painted himself into a corner.

 

[Shacklock]

GRRM is the only one he hasn't killed off yet. I stumbled through it until the Red Wedding, but with so many decent characters killed off, he just seemed to be going for some kind of record.
My personal theory is that he's run out of characters and painted himself into a corner.

Naaaah mate thats ********. You looked at the Spoilers and sample chapters from DWD? It looks ******* mint.

 

[Werthead]

Anyone else getting BLOODY peeved off about A Dance With Dragons?

Well, to answer this question, yes, lots of people are peeved off about it. This is what happens when you engage with the fans and keep them informed and make estimates that turn out to be wrong. I strongly suspect that GRRM will engage in a total lock-down on The Winds of Winter and won't update that often about it. I'm guessing he certainly won't make estimates on its release date.

That all said, I'm pretty confident that he's much closer to the end of ADWD than the start. With the news that the stuff he had left over from AFFC basically went out the window, he's had to write a whole new book from scratch. As a result I can see the book slipping to the end of next year (I'm hoping it doesn't, obviously), but hopefully no longer than that. Then we should be on track for three-year-per-book after that.

One thing I do find amusing is all the people assuming he's not actually bothering to write the thing when he's releasing info about it every few months, most recently about the new version of the prologue that's been completed. As I said before, I suspect he won't do this with Book 6.

 

[viZion]

3 years per book? That's not very good to be honest. If he releases ADWD next year then that will be 3 years since the last book. I hope the next don't take that long. I've always hoped that because he got rid of the FIVE YEAR GAP that he had to make up a lot of that he wasn't planning on writing originally. So I was thinking that after ADWD he could get back to writing what he originally planned which would hopefully make things go faster.

 

[Shacklock]

Never mind him, I'll probably be ******* dead by the time he's done xD

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Of course I wish that the book was done today, but I am willing to wait as long as it takes to get a great book. I would rather GRRM take his time so that we are all satisfied with the book and it lives up to the high standards we all have set for him.

 

[Orion]

Of course I wish that the book was done today, but I am willing to wait as long as it takes to get a great book. I would rather GRRM take his time so that we are all satisfied with the book and it lives up to the high standards we all have set for him.

I agree, I'm willing to wait as long as it takes as long as the time spent made the book better. Better to have something amazing in 3 years than to have something boring in 1.

 

[Koopa]

I dont know about you lot but im gettin mighty impatient for GRRM to get off his fat arse and bloody finish the thing. I mean A Feast for Crows came out in 2005, and it wasn't even that great, but I thought 'well I've only got to wait about a year or so and aDWD should be amazing'. But no, we are still waiting. Its not like he hasnt got the talent or anything, is it?

Anyway now that Ive got that off my chest, how do you lot feel about this?

I feel that you're a whiner. In the end it is just a book.

 

[Charming Serpent]

To be honest, it has taken a rather long time to come out with a book that was already partially done, but then again, his books are soooo much better than any that I have read and so much more real and complex that I can wait for it.

 

[Boaz]

I think the most important factor in GRRM's series is a story of the highest quality.

In America, we live in the most time oriented culture in the history of this planet. We can get food, clothing, and shelter at a moment's notice. We can get entertainment and information even quicker... instantly. Our sewers take our filth away immediately. Vehicles take us from A to B faster than any royalty ever traveled. Computers let us buy, sell, communicate, and ingest data at breakneck speed. We consume and we expect instantantaneous replacement.

If you are reading this, then your culture probably has many similarities with mine.

Instant gratification seems to be the name of the game.

But how many of our quick things really are of the highest quality? Are Big Macs recommended by the American Medical Association? Does American Idol really sate our desire for entertainment? How many Hollywood movies each year will be called classics by our grandchildren? How many recalls are made by American car manufacturers each year? Are any toys safe that are made in China? Could we have a higher foreclosure rate on American homes?

Get-rich-quick and a NOW attitude leave us empty and longing to try to be filled again even quicker.

Mr. Martin is writing a story that goes and grows. It is his story. His. I'd compare his pace of writing to any of the glut of fantasy writers as craftsmanship to an assembly line.

In an assembly line, someone has an idea; someone buys the materials; someone loads the materials and turns on the machine; someone made the machine that made the machine that runs the assembly line; someone puts their name on the finished product and makes money. Then we all wait for the inevitable recall.

Has anyone read Star Wars books, Dungeons and Dragons books, or Warhammer books? Are these books all not from an assembly line? George Lucas did not write the Star Wars books, no many people write them. People are hired to hammer another person's idea into a story... with a deadline. I've never read R.A. Salvatore, but honestly... is he good? He's using someone else's ideas, characters, world, languages... at least Edgar Rice Burroughs had his own characters and worlds.

Writing is art. Art. Most contemporary art is made with the same constraints as the fry guy at Burger King. An artist squeezes a tube of paint... <squirt... splot!> How's that? I say "Ding fries are done!"

Art does not require blood, sweat, and tears. But it should reveal something of the soul. If the Warhammer books reveal anything of the soul, then we are all already dead.

Craftsmanship can be time consuming. This is because craftsmanship takes origninality, cohesion, and care. The concept for Westeros, it's characters, it's plots, et al come from one person. The continual development from book to book depends upon the same person. And the continuity of plots, languages, geography, and dates also depends upon that same person... Mr. Martin.

In the D&D books, who cares if character X is anti-social in the first book and yet gains a sidekick in the second... nobody cares because the books were written by two different people.

Because Martin is doing it all himself, there will be a longer time between books.

If you want to amaze your taste buds and tummy with chateaubriand and a top of the line cabernet sauvignon, then go to el Bulli, Pierre Gagnaire or The French Laundry. If you want diarrhea, go to McDonald's or Taco Bell.

 

[vervain_ashe]

That I would rather wait 10 years for a masterpiece than 10 days for a shoddy half done bit of work.
Writing takes time - waiting is indeed a pain - but one cannot rush creation

True. Very, very true. Patience is a wonderful virtue.

 

[vervain_ashe]

I think the most important factor in GRRM's series is a story of the highest quality.


Mr. Martin is writing a story that goes and grows. It is his story. His.



Because Martin is doing it all himself, there will be a longer time between books.

If you want to amaze your taste buds and tummy with chateaubriand and a top of the line cabernet sauvignon, then go to el Bulli, Pierre Gagnaire or The French Laundry. If you want diarrhea, go to McDonald's or Taco Bell.

All hail, "Boaz!"

 

[viZion]

Hey, if you're impatient you could always write your own fan fiction. Loras and Renly anyone?

 

[Pyan]

Just be thankful he's not JRR Tolkien, and takes eighteen years to finish a sequel.....

 

[Werthead]

I think the most important factor in GRRM's series is a story of the highest quality...

All hail Boaz.

Now we wait for the response, "But it doesn't take Steven Erikson 3 years to write a book!" followed by the counter-response, "No, but given how atrocious his prose can be - regardless of the awesomeness of the storylines - maybe he should take that long,". Then someone brings up Robert Jordan and the thread gets closed.

 

[Boaz]

Wert, thanks for succinctly summing up my verbosity.

The sheer size of GRRM's undertaking is staggering. His cast is enormous. Every time he switches POVs he must get out of one character and into another... not just the character's name, gender, and age, but the motivations, aspirations, strengths, weaknesses, loves, hates, apathies, knowledge, ignorance and then write them all from that character's unique perspective.

Tolkien's works may be shorter, but his linguistic efforts were positively herculean. Martin is writing the epic I've been waiting decades to read.

Hail Boaz the Verbose? Hail no.

All Hail Mr. Martin!

P.S. - Guys, I don't know GRRM. I've never met him. I think I disagree with him severely on politics and mayhaps religion too, but I really am hooked by this story of his. His pace, his changing perspectives, his character's moral dilemmas, his direct story telling style, and his weaving of subtleties have engrossed me. That's why I am vigorously defending him.

P.P.S. - Also, I just want you to know that if you disagree with me, that's alright with me. I'm old enough and thick skinned enough (hopefully) to take it.

In my earlier post I discussed art. Art is subjective. Either it intrigues and inspires you or it does not. Either way, the work still is the product of the author. This story is his. We are all free to critique it. We can sing it's praises or shout it down. But the story is the creation of the author and it is for him alone to determine it's path, it's progress, and it's pace.

I'd love to have the next three books under this year's Christmas Tree. Really, I'd like nothing better... well, mayhaps World Peace and to win the Lottery, but that's beside the point. I'd like to mail GRRM a check for $100 today if I could get the next three books by Christmas.

If there were not these extended periods between books, would you really be re-reading and re-living and re-hashing and debating theories, crackpot ideas, and plot lines here? No, we'd all be reading some lesser book and forgetting ASOIAF. I think this story will really stick with many of us for many, many years. I believe it'll be something that many of us will pass along.

Plus, if we'd already read all seven books, you'd be denied the pleasure of my garrulous pedantry.

 

[Culhwch]

I have no issue with the length of time Martin is taking to write his book. I agree wholeheartedly with Boaz's and Werthead's sentiments. Quit complaining.