Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

[nomadman]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Of his longer works what would be the best?

Purely personal opinion of course but, Phoenix and the Mirror, Island Under the Earth and Ursus of Ultima Thule would be my picks. Peregrine Primus is a fairly accessible (relatively speaking) novel with much to recommend it. Davidson also wrote some very good alternate history involving a recurring character, Doctor Eszterhazy, whose witty and odd little tales set in a fictional 19th century Eastern European region are some of the pinnacle of his writing.

 

[j d worthington]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Not really much I can add to what nomadman has said there, though (despite it being a very enjoyable novel) I think I might class Peregrine: Primus just a shade lower (I never got around to reading Peregrine: Secundus, though....)

It doesn't really matter, as you have that particular collection, but I've always had a partiality to the collection Or All the Seas with Oysters..., which displays quite a wide array of different types of tales. It was also my first encounter with that rather nasty little ditty: "Up the close and down the stair, / But and ben wi' Burke and Hare...", at the tender age of about 14....

 

[dask]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Unfortunately I haven't read a lot of Avram Davidson, but I really liked his story "Bumberboom." (I think that's how you spell it.) It was the best story in the anthology. But don't ask me what it's about --- I can't remember. Except it has that desolate, "dying earth"/post-holocaust milieu I enjoy. (I think.)

 

[GOLLUM]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

It doesn't really matter, as you have that particular collection, but I've always had a partiality to the collection Or All the Seas with Oysters..., which displays quite a wide array of different types of tales. It was also my first encounter with that rather nasty little ditty: "Up the close and down the stair, / But and ben wi' Burke and Hare...", at the tender age of about 14....

Thanks to Nomadman and J.D. on those recommendations. Once I've read the current collection I may consider obtaining one of his longer works.

J.D.: Thanks for the heads up on the other collection. The reason I selected that Avram Davidson Treasury was because it covered 5 decades of his writing career and features insightful introductions/thoughts by contemporaries on individual works. If perchance you don't own the Treasury, you may consider obtaining a copy...

 

[Fried Egg]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Regarding the Fantasy Masterworks series, I've been more disappointed in some of their selections, rather than the overall quality of the works themselves. Too much sub-par Moorcock, for example (History of the Runestaff, whilst fun, is by no means a Masterwork) and a few slight works which I felt were only peripherally fantasy. These slots could have been used to bring back into print some more deserving titles: Phoneix and the Mirror for example, which is still out of print today I think.

I actually preferred "The Chronicles of Castle Brass" and would have put that one in there instead of "History of the Runestaff".

Now that they've stopped the series, it now becomes appropriate to question what they've put in there at the expense of what they've left out. But I think it's a shame they couldn't have continued it instead...

 

[GOLLUM]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Tell me about it!.....

 

[Fried Egg]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Unfortunately I have another disappointment to report. It's not even released yet but is scheduled December next year. I'm talking about Robert Heinlein's "Star beast". Here's my review of it:

This book has been sat on my to read shelf for a while now. I picked it up last year sometime completely by chance. Nobody I know had cited it as one one of Heinlein's better novels and I had no particular expectations about it. Consequently, it never seemed to reach the top of my to read pile but then I heard that it's scheduled for inclusion in the SF Masterworks series. Time to think again about this book. It is not often that this series puts a foot wrong and the only other Heinlein book in the series is "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" (which I am yet to read). So, I finally picked this up with enhanced expectations.

Unfortunately, this was a disappointment. I can't for the life of me think why this got included in this prestigious series. It hasn't dated well, projecting a future that too strongly reflects the time in which it was written. It's basically just 1950's America with futuristic technology. Annoying dialogue with every other sentence beginning with "Eh?" or "Huh?". Most importantly, the story was devoid of interesting ideas and concepts that are normally a hallmark of entries in the aforenamed series.

John Thomas has an unusual alien pet. It's been in his family for generations and has been gradually becoming bigger, more unwieldy with a more demanding appetite. He calls it "Lummox" although he has no idea what it is and although it talks, everyone presumes it it's pretty dumb because it speaks like a child and has no arms. What everyone fails to consider is that it is, by it's own standards, still just a child, doesn't grow arms until it needs them, and only sounds dumb when speaking in a human language which it managed to learn despite being very different from it's own. Impossible to contain, as it can eat through anything, it eventually gets itself into trouble and risks incurring the ire of the authorities. That is until someone realises that Lummox might be the one demanded by some powerful aliens that have turned up wanting their child back and threatening to destroy the planet...

It was basically an ok read but can't imagine it challenging the reader at all, even in the 50's. There's no reason I can think of why this book shouldn't be allow to fade into complete obscurity.

 

[GOLLUM]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Unfortunately I have another disappointment to report. It's not even released yet but is scheduled December next year. I'm talking about Robert Heinlein's "Star beast".

Huh? Serious? I didn't realise that...scratches head....

 

[Connavar]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

FE: Its time for you to read the Moon is a Harsh Mistress or another RAH great SF books just to forget this book

He can be a bit dated at times but that never gets in the way of his great storytelling,ideas.

 

[vk1980]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

I have most of the SF & Fantasy Masterworks in my bookcase, not read a lot as of yet but summary so far of biggest letdowns and favourites would be:

• Chronicles of Amber - Really liked the first book / part, then started to taper off, but with occassional spikes on the "good" side
• Iron Dragons Daughter - Great idea(s) but not quite the sum of it's parts - was a slight diasappointment
• Forever War - Great stuff
• I Am Legend - Brilliant
• Stars My Destination - Superb - even the wife read it
• Book of Skulls - Urgh. Teenage repressed sexuality in a story of spiritual hokum. Did not enjoy at all.
• War of the Worlds - Good but underwhelmed so I guess has to go down as a disappointment
• Flowers For Algernon - Really liked. Loved the style of writing phonetically to show Charlies mental ability at the start and....
• Centauri Device - Did not like, also tried "Light" by him - which made my head hurt but not in a good way.
• City and the Stars - Dull (usually love Arthur C)
• Blood Music - Read mostly on a train. Didn't do much for me and thought was suppossed to be really good (maybe should try Childhoods End?)
• Space Merchants - Suprisingly enjoyed this quick read that I took as a satire on consumerism?
• Flow My Tears - Difficult but with some redeeming points
• Ringworld - Shocked at how dull this was and that pretty much nothing really happened.......
• Rendevous With Rama - read a long time ago and loved. Not sure if would stand up to a re-read...?
• Moon is a Harsh Mistress - Really wanted to dislike but ended up loving it
• Left Hand of Darkness - Can see why it is a "Masterwork" but left me cold (pun intended)
• Dune - Biggest surprise, thought would not enjoy but was one of the very best SF books I've ever read.

Anyway....have never had to put one down because I really disliked so can't have been too bad overall.

 

[j d worthington]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

I must admit that I've never had a problem with The Star Beast; but then, I never saw it as other than an adventure tale with some very quirky characters and a goodly dose of Heinleinian philosophy.

It may also make a difference that I've always read it in context of the rest of his juveniles, where it further develops certain themes he has already been exploring. As for the complaint about the redundant "eh?" "huh?", etc.... that has always struck me as very much an attempt (rather successful, frankly) to capture the way people talk rather than the way dialogue is written. I can see where it might become annoying, but I'd chalk it up to a bit too much verisimilitude in this instance....

Either way, I've always felt it was an enjoyable read, with some interesting ideas and points to make... but I'm not sure I'd put it in the "Masterworks" class... certainly not in comparison to several of his other books....

 

[GOLLUM]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Either way, I've always felt it was an enjoyable read, with some interesting ideas and points to make... but I'm not sure I'd put it in the "Masterworks" class... certainly not in comparison to several of his other books....

Agreed...which is essentially the point being made here of curse.

Still, as a life long slave to said Masterwork series I shall continue collecting...

 

[Fried Egg]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

He can be a bit dated at times but that never gets in the way of his great storytelling,ideas.

That would be fine if there was any particular great storytelling or ideas here. That was lacking and what we are left with is just a not very well written story.

As for the complaint about the redundant "eh?" "huh?", etc.... that has always struck me as very much an attempt (rather successful, frankly) to capture the way people talk rather than the way dialogue is written. I can see where it might become annoying, but I'd chalk it up to a bit too much verisimilitude in this instance....

Perhaps you are right. An innevitable part of real speech when people often mis-hear each other the first time we say something. However for me it would be much better being left out, just as we expect people's toiletry activities to be left out of the stories we read.

 

[J-WO]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

I didn't really 'get' the middle section of The fifth head of Cerberus by Gene Wolfe, though I adored the rest.

 

[Fried Egg]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Unfortunately I have another disappointment to report with the Fantasy Masterworks Series: "The Night Land" by William Hope Hodgson. It was included as part of an omnibus edition in this series entitled: "The House on the Borderland and Other Novels" but I read an edition that was seperate. Here's my review:

Millions of years into the future when the sun has ceased to shine and most of the world is overrun by strange demonic beasts, the remnants of mankind hold out inside a mighty pyramid fueled by the "earth current" in which the beasts cannot enter. No one who ever ventures out ever comes back and since they have all they need inside their redoubt, not many bother.

At first this seemed to be a story about a man who is telepathically contacted by a woman who he remembers from a former life, and was his beloved. She is however not located within the mighty pyramid but in another lesser pyramid somewhere out there in the night land, and it's earth current is failing. Eventually he decides to go out, on his own, to try and find his soul mate. He must venture out and brave the unknown terrors of the night land with only a general idea of direction and no idea how far. Can he defy all odds, find her and bring her back alive?

Actually though, the story is not about the above, it is infact the protagonist's very poorly written account of these events. To start with, the protagonist writes with a seventeenth century English prose as is no natural story teller. The narrative is in the first person with large amounts of exposition and no dialogue. Rarely is the reader able to feel that they are put into the story, instead is constantly reminded that they are reading about the story after the event. The tediousness of his journey is exasibated by the constant dwelling on the daily routines of walking, sleeping, drinking water and pill popping. And on his return journey, the narrative becomes dominated by the childish behaviour of two love sick "teenagers" in which they are constantly smiling at each other, kissing, teasing and upsetting each other. Remember, there's no dialogue. Just when I was looking forward to relieving the monotony of the first half with another character for protagonist to interract with, I found that it was instead replaced by something even more infuriating.

The prose is not archaic in a good, Eric Rücker Eddison kind of way. It instead feels clumsy, repetative and ugly. If I'm being unkind I would say that Hodgson was very bad at archaic styling and if I'm being generous I would say that he most skillfully constructed a character who's prose was appalling. Indeed, I ended up feeling that all the flaws of the book were intentional, part of Hodgson's deliberate styling. And I know full well from reading his other work that this man could write really well when he wanted to. What he was trying to achieve in this book I will never really understand but whether it was deliberate or not, I didn't enjoy it.

This is a long book, coming in at just over 500 pages. The blurb on the front boasted this was the "complete and unabridged version" and I found myself wishing it wasn't. At various points I was on the verge of giving up but just managed to force myself to carry on until the end. My advice to anyone considering reading this is to only do so after reading some of his other work and if you really feel you just have to have more of this otherwise wonderful writer who's life was cut tragically short.

 

[J-WO]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Yeah, that book is a good idea completely blown, IMHO. What was all that archaic prose about? Even Lovecraft couldn't get on with it, as I recall.

 

[neuroticdog]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

I read "The Night Land" about 5 months ago and can relate to everything Fried Egg wrote. There were my thoughts at the time...


My gateway drug into the early 20th century weird was William Hope Hodgson's "The Night Land". Let me just say that, ultimately, and upon alot of reflection I felt rewarded that I read this but...and this is a big BUT...this had to be one of the most difficult, arduous, eye-rolling texts I have ever read...ever!!!

I persevered till the end, and I felt a sense of achievement and a satisfying sense of completion but the journey...good lord! The entire (huge) book was written in faux biblical style something like this:

"...she did strive with her Memory. But in the end, did fail to come unto aught of clearness, save that she did see, as in a far dream, yet very plain, a great metal roadway, set in two lines that went forever unto the setting Sun; and she then sudden to say that she did see in her memory the Sun, and she to have a strange and troubled amazement upon her. And there did be Cities upon the great road; and the houses did be strange-seeming, and did move forward eternally and at a constant speed; and behind them the Night did march forever; and they to have an even pace with the sun, that they live ever in the light, and so to escape the night which pursued forever..."

The story is very cut and dry dying earth. The plot is a simple quest to save the proverbial damsel in distress. The hero has to journey across the night lands, fraught with monsters both physical and psychic to reach her, and then fight his way back. That's it, on the surface. Within this simple framework though could be the birth of many well know tropes that have been done to death by authors post Hodgson leading all the way up to contemporary times. It was interesting reading these and realizing that this might be the first time that that particular idea has been set down in print.

I read several essays and interpretations online (as I was reading the novel) and they went a long way in keeping my stamina up to get though the constant insane language, sappy romance and eye rolling foot fetish (yeah, you read that right) passages that went on for eternity.

In retrospect...when I did finish, I put the thing down and thought to myself...that was one weird story. The whole experience was like being tortured...initially almost succumbing to the pain but eventually breaking though that, letting the pain wash over me, feeling it for what it is...PAIN!!...and finally coming to terms with it, accepting it and, near the end seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and doing the happy dance.

So, maybe it was meant to be like that, who knows. I do know that there are alot of apologies and defenses pointed in the direction of Hodgson defending this work, his utterly neanderthal way of treating women for one thing and his excruciating use of the english language.

One of my favorites is...re. the faux new testament style of writing...it was put there intentionally to show the dichotomy of prevailing strong religious beliefs of the time vs. a very agnostic view of man as god and the sprit of man conquers all. I was able to buy into that I guess, and I think that was (one of) the reason of me being able to slog though it. Coincidentally, Dunsany tackles this view to, in a different way though the use of myths and fables. Also, there is a huge chasm of a difference reading Dunsany vs. Hogdson...the former being a joy, the latter akin to getting a root canal without any novacaine.

There are other interesting "deep thoughts" around about this book which gave it the aura of maybe Hodgson is on to something here. I'm really not telling people they need to pick this up and read it, just that, if you are in the mood for something...well, weird, and are prepared to accept certain...flaws, then by all means, read it.

So, with all this being said. Yes, I can recommend the book. Have patience and an open mind...and if you do make it to the end...maybe you can do the happy dance too.

 

[j d worthington]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

That is one of the strangest... compliments?... of a book I've come across.

As I've said before, I think the novel is a tremendous feat of the imagination, especially the actual journey across the night land. However, Hodgson's use of a truly terrible attempt at archaism (something he attempts elsewhere, with slightly better results) is, indeed, akin to having dental work done sans anaesthetic.

It has been many years since I read this novel (about a quarter century now, in fact), but I have it scheduled for a rereading (along with all of Hodgson's other fantasy work and even some of his non-fantastic writing) in the relatively near future... so I'll have to see how it plays a second time around.

(Hey, if I can make it through the Malleus Maleficarum twice, this should be, in the old phrase, a lead-pipe-cinch....)

 

[neuroticdog]

re: Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

Ha...after re-reading what I wrote...it was a bit of backhanded compliment, wasnt it!

I do think it was a good intro for my journey into the weird though. Thinking back, there was some truly bizarre images and concepts happening. If i'm not mistaken, wasnt the first chapter, which was set in (Hodgson's) present day a sort of microcosm for the rest of the book. I.E. the events taking place were somewhat mirrored by the rest of the story which took place in the extremely distant future. I think, if you try hard enough you can find direct parallels. Also, the slugs in the canyon were quite memorable as well as the various scattered pneumavores strewn across the nightland. Also, the sense of scope that Hodgson conveyed of the great redoubt was very well done and quite striking.

...but that romance...if my eyes rolled once, they must have rolled a billion times at the sappieness of it all. Regardless, I'm glad I read it, and it was quite the imaginative feat as j.d. mentions. I dont think I can post a website but there is a site out there dedicated completely to this book...if you read it, or plan on reading it, I would recommend a look. I'm sure Google would find it.

 

[Fried Egg]

Oops, I forgot to update this thread with another disappointment I came across with this series: "Stand On Zanzibar" by John Brunner. Here was my thoughts on it:

My first John Brunner novel and, coming with many glowing reviews and being in the SF Masterworks series, I had high expectations. I really wanted to like this book but I have to say after completing it that I struggle to see what people see in it.

It didn't bode well from the outset when the narrative began with deeply fragmented chunks of info dumping, character introduction and scene setting. At the beginning, with no story to give these information fragments context, I could not get a handle on any of it. Only after I was about one hundred pages in did a coherent story line begin to emerge and give me a framework to put these narrative fragments into context. Even then, they served mainly to break the flow of the story as they persisted to interrupt the plot through to the end of the book.

The story itself was quite interesting and just engaging enough to keep me reading to the end of the book (I was tempted to give up a few times) and avoid a one star rating. The chacaters were okay, not particular interesting and the ubiquitous Chad Mulligan, who seemed to be a thinly veiled mouthpiece for the author's didactic views, came across as smug and irritating.

Funnily enough, the story of the book was set in 2010, and it's interesting to compare Brunner's "prediction" of how things might turn out on Earth with how they actually did. One might say that Brunner did, to some degree, foresee the rising cost of food and raw materials resulting from a rising population but overall it has to be said that his view was far too pessimistic, at least in the time frame of the story. Perhaps the stringent eugenic population controls and massive shortages of resources described in this book may yet come to pass but we haven't got there yet.

I shall give Brunner another try (since I already have another of his novels on my shelf) but I hope for something far more engaging next time.