Disappointments from the Fantasy & SF Masterworks series

[JonLaidlow]

I have to agree that Pastel City is a masterpiece but the sequels left me cold and I too couldn't finish them. Much like Vance's first Dying Earth it seems to have a power and resonance that the later books don't really capture. I've struggled to get very far with Harrison's Centauri Device so he joins that long list of authors I ought to appreciate more.

I remember enjoying Bear's Eon as a kid (yellow jacket library copy, right?) and thinking it was a brilliant revision of Clarke's first Rama book, but trying to reread it again last year I found it badly written and it spent far too long moving characters around and revelling in the future earth politics and not enough on the sensawonder that I remembered.

Apart from the Gene Wolfes (Wolves?) one of my other favourite masterpieces is Lucius Shepard's Life During Wartime. Shepard's best work was at novella length and it suffers a little from being an expansion of an earlier novella but he takes a well-written cyberpunkish war story and moves it into Latin American magical realism with real aplomb.

 

[williamjm]

I have to agree that Pastel City is a masterpiece but the sequels left me cold and I too couldn't finish them. Much like Vance's first Dying Earth it seems to have a power and resonance that the later books don't really capture. I've struggled to get very far with Harrison's Centauri Device so he joins that long list of authors I ought to appreciate more.

I agree I liked the Viriconium novels less as they went along, although I still liked them all to some extent. The short stories on the other hand verged on being incomprehensible at times.

 

[Mangara]

I found Ringworld most detestable. A book that felt all idea, no character.

Ringworld is a mighty concept, and one which is an impressive creation. A (man?) made circular matter of ribbon six hundred miles long and 90 million miles in radius. As for a setting for a novel it takes some beating, and leaves many questions for the reader. Who put it there? Why? What will our heroes find on it? How will they escape?

The novel shines in the SF elements; the setting is fantastic, imaginative with much scope for a promising novel. His implementation of scientific theory into the novel works well to re-enforce his created concepts and gives credibility to his creations. The aliens themselves are suitably non-human in appearance and behaviour, which can be a concern in a novel set in a futuristic space environment.

Sadly a novel has to be more than an idea, and Ringworld suffers from dated attitudes and distinctly unlikable characters. Niven’s portrayal of women is uncomfortable reading, and makes several aspects of the novel hard to like. Teela’s presence is wasted on some exceptionally awkward sex scenes and a disappointing story arc. I found the pacing of the novel to be an issue also with things slowing considerably once our cast land on the ring.

Despite all this it is probably still worth a read, though it is the first SF Masterwork I've been disappointed with. The worldbuilding and setting alone is something to respect, but its age is showing through in its sexist overtones and disappointing characters.


Lord of Light bugged me no end too.

Lord of Light is a wonderful concept, let down by a lack of depth, and a confusing veil of Indian myth concealing very one dimensional characters. Zelazny seems to have been intent on writing based on the setting, and yet does not seem to know how to make it not come out as a convoluted mess of names, with many of the cast indistinguishable from each other.

Ultimately, Lord of Light is a story of revenge and liberation. Unfortunately we are trapped in a man made heaven, with a bunch of egotistical self made gods, with little or no focus on the oppressed or their interpretation of the "gods".As to why these rulers decided to play out Indian myth is unclear, much like the plot for the rest of the book.

The writing style is difficult to follow, conversations flow with no indication of the speaker, and action plays out in scenes I found difficult to visualise. There is some interesting debate, and philosophical musing, but it is severely let down by a indecipherable mess of a story, which never engaged me to any significant degree. The main meat of the story is contained in the final few chapters and the events appear rushed, resulting in a distinctly unsatisfying conclusion. I was really wanting to like this novel, the setting appealed greatly to me, but ultimately all I'm left feeling is very let down!

 

[psikeyhackr]

I found Ringworld most detestable. A book that felt all idea, no character.

Sadly a novel has to be more than an idea, and Ringworld suffers from dated attitudes and distinctly unlikable characters.

A novel doesn't have to be anything. It is preferable that it be something the reader likes. Fortunately there are lots of different readers. I read Ringworld in 1970. It was great. Now it's old hat, everybody has heard of it and can kick it around. Now with word processors it is a lot easier to do all of the writing needed for great character development. But so much stuff today with character development is intellectually boring. Ringworld can never again be as good as it was. It is no longer a new idea.

"detestable"? Oh please!

psik

 

[Vertigo]

Sadly it is easier for me to list the ones that have not disappointed. I have read 49 so far and of them the only ones that have truly lived up to my expectation (ie. I've given them 5/5 stars) are:
Flowers for Algernon - Daniel Keyes
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep - Philip K Dick
Tau Zero - Poul Anderson
The Fountains of Paradise - Aurther C Clarke
Rendezvous with Rama - Aurther C Clarke
Blood Music - Greg Bear
The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams

I hesitate to list the ones that haven't for fear of upsetting people but here are, for me, the worst so far:
Rogue Moon - Algis Budrys - just dreadful, simple as that.
The Forever War - Joe Haldeman - so here's where I upset people, but so many stories have been written about the Vietnam war and in particular about the difficulty of veterans reintegrating into society that it is totally clichéd. Yet doing exactly that but in SF somehow makes it a classic.
The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester - in fairness I thought this was really quite good (despite being filled with so many totally unbelievable scenes) however it was nowhere near as good as all the almost fanatical praise it has received lead me to expect.

 

[Mangara]

A novel doesn't have to be anything. It is preferable that it be something the reader likes. Fortunately there are lots of different readers. I read Ringworld in 1970. It was great. Now it's old hat, everybody has heard of it and can kick it around. Now with word processors it is a lot easier to do all of the writing needed for great character development. But so much stuff today with character development is intellectually boring. Ringworld can never again be as good as it was. It is no longer a new idea.

"detestable"? Oh please!

psik

I'm sorry Psik but I hated so much of it! Thats the thing with opinions I guess. I wasn't aiming to antagonise but merely expressing my dislike. (I have given out only 4 1's on goodreads out of 150, so it's very low on my enjoyment scale) It just didn't have enough life for me!

 

[J-Sun]

Sadly it is easier for me to list the ones that have not disappointed. I have read 49 so far and of them the only ones that have truly lived up to my expectation (ie. I've given them 5/5 stars) are:
Flowers for Algernon - Daniel Keyes
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep - Philip K Dick
Tau Zero - Poul Anderson
The Fountains of Paradise - Aurther C Clarke
Rendezvous with Rama - Aurther C Clarke
Blood Music - Greg Bear
The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams

Good list.

I hesitate to list the ones that haven't for fear of upsetting people but here are, for me, the worst so far:
Rogue Moon - Algis Budrys - just dreadful, simple as that.

This upsets me. We'll have to disagree, simple as that.

The Forever War - Joe Haldeman - so here's where I upset people, but so many stories have been written about the Vietnam war and in particular about the difficulty of veterans reintegrating into society that it is totally clichéd. Yet doing exactly that but in SF somehow makes it a classic.

Yes, using the sensawunda sfnal idea of time dilation as a perfect fictional metaphor for the dissociation of the vet leaving what was called "the world" and then trying to get back to it is part of what makes it a classic and it was hardly cliched in 1972 when the war was still going on and the first component of the book came out or even by 1975 when the whole thing was out. I mean, not liking it is up to anyone's viewpoint but calling it cliched when basically nothing quite like it had been written before is unusual.

(But, while I like all you like and even those you don't, I don't like a few of the classics on the list, myself - de gustibus non est disputandum - I'll just let discretion be the better part of valor this time and not mention them. )

 

[Vertigo]

Well we all have our preferences! And I'm likely hard on the Forever War because I read it so late which is probably why it seemed clichéd to me.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I'm sorry Psik but I hated so much of it! Thats the thing with opinions I guess.

Now that you mention it I think Revelation Space was "detestable". That "spider room" that could walk around the outside of the ship was ridiculous. It seemed it's only purpose was to allow the whole thing to be crammed into a shuttle craft so some characters could escape. That was another problem with RS. I hated all of the characters. The sooner they got killed off the better I would have liked it. LOL

psik

 

[Fried Egg]

I have to say that I really loved "Forever War". To call it a book that was merely about the Vietnam war is missing the point by a long way in my opinion. It transcended that completely and is just as relevant to modern conflicts as it was about that one. And the SF setting, using the time dilation effects to emphasise the psychological impact of such wars on the soldiers added a dimension to it that no non-SF book could have achieved.

 

[Vertigo]

To be fair it wasn't just the Vietnam angle; I've gone on to read a couple more by Haldeman and been pretty 'meh' on all of them so I guess his writing just doesn't push my buttons for some reason. But there you go; you win some, you lose some.

 

[BAYLOR]

To be fair it wasn't just the Vietnam angle; I've gone on to read a couple more by Haldeman and been pretty 'meh' on all of them so I guess his writing just doesn't push my buttons for some reason. But there you go; you win some, you lose some.

I read the Forever War Years ago and Though I found it to be a good book.

 

[hitmouse]

I loved Ringworld when I first read it, and most of the Tales of Known Space stories. Proper Sense of Wonder stuff for a teenage SF fan. I haven't re-read any of it for years. I doubt it stands up to serious scrutiny, but I will always have a soft spot for the opening sentence of Ringworld:

"In the night-time heart of Beirut, in one of a row of general-address transfer booths, Louis Wu flicked into reality."

 

[Bick]

I loved Ringworld when I first read it, and most of the Tales of Known Space stories. Proper Sense of Wonder stuff for a teenage SF fan. I haven't re-read any of it for years. I doubt it stands up to serious scrutiny...

As to the debate on the quality of Ringworld, and other known space novels. I have actually read or reread them all in the last few years (with the exception of the final two Ringworld sequels). My own view is that Protector stands up very well, and is Niven's bets book from this era. World of Ptaavs is actually pretty good too. As a novel, Ringworld comes third. The idea is great, but the plotting is less good. Ringworld Engineers is neat as it pulls a few things together; A Gift from Earth is kinda fun, but certainly slighter in ideas and quality. So on quality of the novels, my recommendation order, best to weakest is:
Protector, World of Ptaavs, Ringworld, Ringworld Engineers, A Gift from Earth.

As for Forever War - I thought it was very good, just not as fantastic as many seem to think. The ideas were a little bit better than the execution for me. Not unlike Ringworld in a sense.

On the subject of Stars my Destination. Some scenes and plot ideas really stick with me. The idea of hiding out in a dead space ship at the beginning of the book and having to go out to get more oxygen every now and then was excellent. But overall, I only rate it as "good" not "great". There are numerous books from this era that I think are superior. I think The Space Merchants knocks it into a cocked hat for instance.

 

[Fried Egg]

As to the general question of what constitutes a "disappointment" as far as the SF Masterworks series is concerned, and I got to thinking about this after Vertigo's suggestion that everything that didn't get 5/5 stars being a disappointment, I think I am more forgiving than that.

There are many books in this series that I've rated 4/5 stars that I don't consider disappointments. Sometimes I feel that although some books I think are very good, I still find there are some things about them that I didn't quite like but generally put that down to being a matter of taste. I'll still accept others calling such a book a masterpiece.

Generally in this thread I've only listed books that were only 1 or 2 stars out of five as I found them so problematic that I can't really understand anyone calling them a masterpiece.

 

[Vertigo]

As to the general question of what constitutes a "disappointment" as far as the SF Masterworks series is concerned, and I got to thinking about this after Vertigo's suggestion that everything that didn't get 5/5 stars being a disappointment, I think I am more forgiving than that.

I'm not that harsh! I only consider the 2 stars or less to be a disappointment and some 3 star ones where reputation led me to expect much more (The Stars My Destination being an example of that). My point was that I have a lot of those and only a few brilliant, 5 star ones. Most of the three star ones I wouldn't class as disappointment (or at least not majorly so) and none of the 4 star ones.

I would also say in fairness to the series that is was never intended to be an exclusive list of the best SF or F books. My understanding is that it was intended to be a re-publishing of out-of-print books that they felt deserved to still be in circulation. Maybe the series title is a little at fault for raising expectations to high.

 

[hitmouse]

I read Stars My Destination (Tiger Tiger) aged about 14, as a random 2nd hand bookstall pickup (Bridport market, Dorset), having never heard of the author or seen any reference to, or discussion of, the book. I thought it was absolutely amazing. It was years before I came across anyone who had heard of Bester. He was my personal secret.

 

[BAYLOR]

I read Stars My Destination (Tiger Tiger) aged about 14, as a random 2nd hand bookstall pickup (Bridport market, Dorset), having never heard of the author or seen any reference to, or discussion of, the book. I thought it was absolutely amazing. It was years before I came across anyone who had heard of Bester. He was my personal secret.

The Stars my Destination , First rate book all the way. One of the best Science fiction books ever written.

 

[williamjm]

The Stars My Destination - Alfred Bester - in fairness I thought this was really quite good (despite being filled with so many totally unbelievable scenes) however it was nowhere near as good as all the almost fanatical praise it has received lead me to expect.

I think I'd agree with you here, I did enjoy The Stars My Destination and I think it is worthy of inclusion in a Masterworks series but I've heard it described several times as the best or one of the best SF books ever and I don't think it quite lives up to that description. The plot is often a bit ridiculous (to be fair to Bester, it's not really meant to be believable) and only the protagonist and a couple of the other characters are really memorable. There are some great scenes but I felt some of Foyle's adventures didn't add much to the story.

Now that you mention it I think Revelation Space was "detestable". That "spider room" that could walk around the outside of the ship was ridiculous. It seemed it's only purpose was to allow the whole thing to be crammed into a shuttle craft so some characters could escape. That was another problem with RS. I hated all of the characters. The sooner they got killed off the better I would have liked it. LOL

I don't think I dislike RS as much as you seem to, but I didn't think it was all that great either and I thought the characterisation was the weakest part of it.

I found Ringworld most detestable. A book that felt all idea, no character.

Lord of Light bugged me no end too.

To show how opinions vary, I agree with everything you said about Ringworld but I really liked Lord of Light. I can see why Lord of Light isn't to everyone's taste, Zelazny doesn't really have much interest in explaining things in detail (even if LoL is a lot more coherent than some of his other books like Creatures of Light and Darkness).

 

[Fried Egg]

Disappointments since I last posted here.

From the SF Masterworks:

"Synners" by Pat Cardigan - I felt that it had not dated well.
"Arslan" by M.J. Engh - Too much about the central character and not much else.
"Engine Summer" by John Crowley - To deliberately obscure to be enjoyable.

From the Fantasy Masterworks:

"Lavondyss" by Robert Holdstock - Very disappointing sequel to the excellent "Mythago Wood".