The Hound: A theory

[Tywin]

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself (and I didn't). I've always thought it unlikely that Sandor becomes some kind of guardian angel for Sansa or Arya just because he's had some positive interactions with them in the past. It just doesn't make any sense. He was a bit of a father figure to each of the girls and his role was to help expose them (and us, the readers) to the harsh realities of life in this world. That role does not extend to running off to help them out of their predicaments.

I always had the impression of Sandor that he was actually a good and moral person who works hard to convince himself that he is something darker. There are plenty of glimpses of character that slip out here and there where he does the right thing despite it being against his interests (for example standing up to Joffrey to protect Sansa). He has me convinced, but the big question for future books is whether he will ever convince himself.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Sandor IS basically good person. Life made him bitter and angry. And after all he is been through, is hard for him to feel anything but contempt for other people. Despite all that, as Tywin observed, his real personalty sometimes prevails, making him do the right thing, despite his "better judgement". It will take something monumental to shift his character from the shadow though. Ser Robert Strong is good candidate.

And Sansa and Arya meant the great deal to him. Maybe for the first time in life he sensed feelings similar to those of father. A people would call that little step, but it is a great one for Sandor.

 

[viZion]

There are plenty of glimpses of character that slip out here and there where he does the right thing despite it being against his interests (for example standing up to Joffrey to protect Sansa).

This is nitpicky, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think Sandor ever stood up to Joffrey to protect Sansa. He never hit Sansa like the other Kingsguards but Joffrey also never asked him, too. I don't think he would have had he been asked and Joffrey probably sensed that that wasn't an appropriate thing to ask him to do. But, still, it wasn't like he told Joffrey to stop abusing Sansa. If anything, he just told Sansa to suck it up because life sucks so what are you gonna do? He was teaching Sansa that life isn't usually fair and it certainly isn't a fariy tale.

However, since you guys have probably read those scenes more recently than I have, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong.

This raises a question for me that I've never really bothered to ask before. Why did Sandor agree to become Joffrey's bodyguard? Is it answered in the books? I don't think it is but my thought is that he knew Joffrey was pretty much the most retched thing around. So as a statement against the falsehood of being a Knight he chose to be Joffrey's protector because Joffrey was the most obviously evil human being in his vicinity. When you're protecting an awful person like Joffrey, there are no fanciful cover stories about protecting the small folk that other Knights use to justify their station. Basically, it was a big F U to everything that Knights represent.

 

[hadd]

Also the pros of working for Joffrey for him would have been:
- a Lannister boss hence you get paid well
- Joffrey seemed to be rather bloodthirsty so he wouldn't get "bored"
- the king's son, the prince in waiting -> pretty promising career for a bodyguard

 

[Tywin]

Also the pros of working for Joffrey for him would have been:
- a Lannister boss hence you get paid well
- Joffrey seemed to be rather bloodthirsty so he wouldn't get "bored"
- the king's son, the prince in waiting -> pretty promising career for a bodyguard

Let me add:
- Not incur the wrath of the Lannisters (your leige lords) by refusing to serve them.

 

[viZion]

Let me add:
- Not incur the wrath of the Lannisters (your leige lords) by refusing to serve them.

I don't think Sandor cared about that. Wouldn't fit his character. No, I think he volunteered for the position. Who would think to ask him otherwise? It really was a big F U to everyone. He knew that Joffrey was an awful person.

 

[grip junky]

For me it would be a great ending for Sandors part of the story if he found peace as a brother. He lived his whole life by the sword and if he could put it down, what would be wrong with that.

As far as Sansa and Littlfinger go. Now that young Robbert Arryn no longer has his mother to cling to, he is going to be alone and scared. My bet would be that he turns to Sansa, she mothers him and before the end Littlefinger flies.

 

[hadd]

Put down the sword? Hell no!

 

[Mesanna]

You know, just to play devil's advocate here, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if The Hound lives out the rest of his days in that monastery. GRRM likes turning the fantasy tropes on their head, and building a character up, only to have him disappear or die is his 'thing'. So maybe we'll never see or hear from The Hound again, and that scene was only there to reassure us that he didn't die horribly, but will be spending the rest of his life at peace. Is that really so bad?

 

[Tywin]

Is that really so bad?

Yes. We need blood.

 

[Slovian]

Welcome, Slovian. You've made some excellent points and you really seem to have a great understanding of who the Hound is, what makes him the way he is, why he does what he does, etc. I appreciate your analysis.

Wow, thanks for such a nice welcome.

So maybe we'll never see or hear from The Hound again, and that scene was only there to reassure us that he didn't die horribly, but will be spending the rest of his life at peace. Is that really so bad?

I would like that. This might be great because many readers will believe he's dead, at least until they research further into a subject (and knowledge he's alive would be their prize).
But on the other hand Hound story is quite "incomplete". Its natual to anticipate his clash with Gregore or he could also be brought back to action later on - maybe during war with Others? Anyway, more I think of idea that he won't ever return to the sage - more I like it.

I didn't get that Hound is quite explicitly alive when I was reading for the first time. I knew there was Stranger in the stables, but I didn't get all this clues with gravedigger. Personally other thing hit me. When Brianne was talking with abbot he know just much to much about Sendor, and he was telling her about his twisted soul, and what he was throught. Only one source that he could get all this information was Hound himself (probably at some kind of confession). At that time I thought if all that detail was there to spoil that Hound in fact is alive or was it authors fault and unrealistic dialog.

 

[Slovian]

As far as Sansa and Littlfinger go. Now that young Robbert Arryn no longer has his mother to cling to, he is going to be alone and scared. My bet would be that he turns to Sansa, she mothers him and before the end Littlefinger flies.

Sansa is quite selfish and she doesnt have much feelings for Robert. He is gonna die as soon as he is not needed anymore, that is when Sansa is married with that far relative of Jon Arryn. For Sansa this might be hard because she will surely be a part of the plot, but knowing her nature I believe she will get used to some "high level cruelty". I think that she will do everything just like Littlefinger expects her to, learning the way it all works. Until some point, that she will have more experience, more awareness, more knowledge of what Littlefinger did to her family. What happens then would be another strong narrative twist we can't really predict.

 

[NenadBulaja]

The Hound in not explicitly alive. GRRM never wrote that Sandor died, or that he is still alive, so all of this is just construction made on part of the story without proof. Knowing GRRM's writing, this is exactly how he likes it, as from here he can go either way, and have cover for it in the story so far.

Sansa is growing up, her perception of the world, human nature, social interaction, is growing exponentially in sense of realism. With that her's selfishness might disappear, as it came from her's twisted perception of the world. Same as Sendor, she is good in heart, and will fight for Robert if it comes to his killing. Will she succeed is another matter. It will take time for her to be equal with Littlefinger in playing the game, so, again, time skip in my opinion is inevitable.

 

[Tywin]

The Hound in not explicitly alive. GRRM never wrote that Sandor died, or that he is still alive, so all of this is just construction made on part of the story without proof. Knowing GRRM's writing, this is exactly how he likes it, as from here he can go either way, and have cover for it in the story so far.

Something I just thought of with Sandor is that he has been a deus ex machina for GRRM in that he seems to speak a lot of the author's themes directly. Whereas GRRM could spend chapters and chapters describing events which hint at ideas like "The purpose of a Knight is to be a mean man who gets things done, specifically killing." with Sandor he was able to just skip right to the chase and have the character explain it. Sandor has been a tool for the author in this way, and I think that may factor in to whether or not the Hound "stays dead" in the series.

It will take time for her to be equal with Littlefinger in playing the game, so, again, time skip in my opinion is inevitable.

It may take time for her to be able to "play the game" as well as Littlefinger, but killing him could be done immediately. Learning to warg into a nearby animal, pushing him out a window, or manipulating any man in their vicinity to dash his brains out would do the trick.

One of the ongoing themes seems to be that all the other Lords and knights dismiss Littlefinger as not a threat because he's basically a non-imposing effeminate coward and they know that they could throttle him to death without breaking a sweat. Although we have learned that he can in fact be dangerous with his schemes, I think it is important to remember the fine line that he walks and that almost any male character that he encounters in the story has the capability and predisposition to kill him.

That being said, Sansa does not have to learn how to manipulate and seduce the entire 7 kingdoms to defeat Littlefinger and be rid of him; she needs to seduce and manipulate just one single Bronze Yohn (or any knight, lord, warrior, soldier, squire, town bully, etc) into removing Littlefinger from the equation.

 

[NenadBulaja]

Something I just thought of with Sandor is that he has been a deus ex machina for GRRM in that he seems to speak a lot of the author's themes directly. Whereas GRRM could spend chapters and chapters describing events which hint at ideas like "The purpose of a Knight is to be a mean man who gets things done, specifically killing." with Sandor he was able to just skip right to the chase and have the character explain it. Sandor has been a tool for the author in this way, and I think that may factor in to whether or not the Hound "stays dead" in the series.

Good point about Sandor, sort of mirror image which shows "naked truth". My opinion is that GRRM is holding him "on ice" for now, not being explicitly dead or alive, but again this also means a lot (wouldn't do so if he doesn't intend to use him in the future).

 

[NenadBulaja]

It may take time for her to be able to "play the game" as well as Littlefinger, but killing him could be done immediately. Learning to warg into a nearby animal, pushing him out a window, or manipulating any man in their vicinity to dash his brains out would do the trick.

One of the ongoing themes seems to be that all the other Lords and knights dismiss Littlefinger as not a threat because he's basically a non-imposing effeminate coward and they know that they could throttle him to death without breaking a sweat. Although we have learned that he can in fact be dangerous with his schemes, I think it is important to remember the fine line that he walks and that almost any male character that he encounters in the story has the capability and predisposition to kill him.

That being said, Sansa does not have to learn how to manipulate and seduce the entire 7 kingdoms to defeat Littlefinger and be rid of him; she needs to seduce and manipulate just one single Bronze Yohn (or any knight, lord, warrior, soldier, squire, town bully, etc) into removing Littlefinger from the equation.

Ever tried to kill cockroach? Nasty buggers, one might think it is easiest thing in the world, just skuashing a bug. But when you get to it, you realize just how hard it can be. Never underestimate man weaker from you, they have grown getting used to lean on their wits instead of their strength. You convince Bronze John to kill him, but when he gets to it he faces ten quarrels of crossbow bolts flying towards him, because he talked too much with the whore he slept day before.

It will not take whole 7 kingdoms, he is no superman, and I understand your point. But Sansa (or anyone who intends to do so) will have to break a sweat to eliminate this slippery character.

 

[Slovian]

The Hound in not explicitly alive.

Not explicitly, I wasn't precise, my bad. But amount of traces that says he's living in monastery as a monk is enought to make us believe its true, and so he can leave all out to our imagination.
What I don't like much about the series is because of magic and frequent "ressurecting" of dead or near dead characters, now author got to state everything plain and explicitly, because if he does not - new threads of speculations will arise. I liked the way Syrio Forel ended - I do believe him dead, and at the moment I was reading that for the firsts time I wasn't needing any more confirmation on the subject.

 

[Eulalia]

Not only does GRRM have Sandor give the raw truth about knights and refuse to be one, he has Sandor actually risk his life to save the lives of both Sansa and Arya! Lest we pigeonhole him and get too comfortable? Who is the true knight?

GRRM does something similar with Jaime. We get comfortable with him being a villain--than he risks his life to save Brienne, and we find out he really did want to be a true knight like Arthur Dayne.

That's a thought. Sansa may develop increasingly maternal feelings for little Lord Robert and have Littlefinger killed to save him? She always wanted to be a True Queen.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

The Hound's story is not finished. He's too interesting a character to have such a boring end.

I also strongly believe Sansa will come into her own. But I'm not sure if that means the death of Littlefinger.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

sorry to resurrect an old post.

I always had the impression of Sandor that he was actually a good and moral person who works hard to convince himself that he is something darker.

I agree with the first part of this statement. That he is actually a moral and, in his way, good person. but I don;t think he tries to convince himself, or others, that he is otherwise. He has said, explicitly, that he won't become a knight because it is too easy to become a knight and knights have no honor. I think if anything, he is one of the most honest characters there is. He always tells it like he sees it, even if he is bitter and synical about the whole world. he never really does anything too terrible (relatively speaking when you take the time and world he lives in into consideration)

I am having a hard time putting it into words (clearly) but I always got the impression that Sandor was one of the most honest characters there are in the series, which is only downplayed because of how bitter he is.

I can't remember exatly how it happens in the book, but I belive it is very similar to the show, but when Eddard sees that he killed Mycah he asks "you cut him down?" and Sandor replies "He Ran". If mycah would have surrendered, Sandor would have brought him back, and Cersei would have had him executed anyway. but Mycah Ran, so Sandor ran him down. Either way, Mycah would be dead.