Simple Question:

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Just to be clear, this is what I mean when I say I think Rhaegar was actually a real good stand-up kinda guy. I don't mean to imply that he was the absolutely perfect and always made the right decisions. He can still support his father while being a good guy. Charming Serpent makes a good point that it's hard to move against your father, your own blood, no matter what the reasons. It's not really something you can expect anyone to do. It would have been cool if he had decided to act sooner but it's also understandable that he didn't. I do wonder what his exact plans were for after the war. I.e. how does he fix the Aerys situation probably without resorting to something like murder? A moot point I guess but still something I wonder about.

Actually I brought up the point about it being his father and king in my previous post...but thats neither her nor there

Well if youre only point was that Rhaegar was a man amongst men and not that he was a paragon of virtue neccessarily then I concur. It could still hold true that Rhaegar was the most chivalric, noble, person ever but we have no proof of that at this point. Well I guess other than the seeming fondness of Barristan F Selmy. And we all know my regard for Selmy.

CS, I believe the passage about a great council can be found in one of Jons POVs from AGOT when he is speaking with Maester Aemon. I could be wrong though

How to depose him? I think you follow Eddards route. Youre risking burning or beheading from the outset but once you make peace with that possibility your path is clear. You go to the members of the Small Council that control the money and the palace soldiers (whether they be Gold Cloaks or some other), you do not go to the members of the kingsguard unless you have an extremely special bond with one or more, and then you approach the king in an isolated situation and tell him he's going to retire...ship him off to some place like the Tower of Joy to live in exile with a guard of men you trust, you allow him access to ravens and mail in general so you can read any and all of it and tell the world he has retired. The nobility wont utter a word because Aerys was insane, and you may have to kill a member of the Kingsguard or two but there ya go.

As Rhaeger was seemingly the most respected member of the court in his day, it was by his inaction that the realms bled. He, as the Prince-elect had a duty to his people that isnt much removed from the kings....really no one could move against the "Mad" without enlisting Rhaegar. Yes Aerys was ultimately responsible but some of the blame has to be hoisted onto the prince.

 

[viZion]

As Robb and Eddard can attest to, leaders of men who also try to be paragons of virtue don't live too long in ASOIAF's world. Well, I guess technically Eddard lived a good long time (37/38 years?) but not too long for us, the readers.

Aegon, I can understand why you might want to place some blame for Aerys' actions on Rhaegar. I can accept that. I think Charming Serpent brought up a good point when he said Rhaegar may have been concentrating a lot on his prophecies and not so much on what his father was doing. Rhaegar seems to be a pretty passionate person who devotes himself to whatever his current interest happens to be. The realm may have suffered in the meantime. I'm guessing that had he won the war he would have turned his concentration to deposing Aerys like you and others are saying in this thread.

Speaking of Rhaegar's passionate personality, Werthead mentioned that Rhaegar becomes a decent but not great warrior. I think I disagree a little with that. When Rhaegar decided to start learning to fight I think he did it with his typical single-mindedness and he was learning from the best knights of his era. The man had to be great warrior in order to go toe to toe with Robert Baratheon. If I remember right, it wasn't a quick fight between the two. It was more like a 12 round heavyweight bout with Robert scoring his knockout in the final minute of the final round. You don't go twelve rounds with Robert without being a great warrior. Or I could just be misremembering how the battle was described.

 

[Fourth Hunter]

I agree with the people who say that Rhaegar wasn't a bad person simply because he didn't attack his father. I mean, how many times has it been said in ASOIAF that the gods hate the kinslayer above all? It was viewed, in my opinion correctly, as the greatest of all evils.

However, if Rhaegar took Lyanna against her will (which I doubt, and am angered that you all take it for granted) then that would make him a bad person.

 

[viZion]

However, if Rhaegar took Lyanna against her will (which I doubt, and am angered that you all take it for granted) then that would make him a bad person.

I'm of the belief that Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off together not that she taken forcibly.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Whoa...slow down Trigger....Im the only one condemning Rhaegar for his inaction and Im not saying it makes him a bad person. It doesnt make him a good person, but it is a mark against him to let others suffer when he could help by deposing (and not neccessarily killing) his father.

Mad King Aerys is a rabid dog at the point of his death, and you put a rabid dog down regardless of whether or not its the family pet because you have to do it. The consequences to your own soul come later. A truly noble man (and not one self-consumed to the point of inaction) would make the sacrifice to save others...Rhaegar had to be stirred to action....Im just saying the truth of Rhaegars character is somewhere between the versions we've heard.

As for Rhaegar and Lyanna...I dont understand what we're taking for granted. Im working under the assumption the Rhaegar and Lyanna did love each other in true high romance fashion but its always possible theres something else between them.

 

[Fourth Hunter]

I think that if you cause the death of somebody as close to you as your own father, that's as bad as you can be. Just my opinion.

And I'm not sold on R+L=J (prepares himself for attacks)

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

I think you miss my point though 4th....Im not saying regicide and patricide arent horrible things...Im saying that Rhaegar should have done something (if you control the situation you can avoid bloodshed). He truly is the only person who could have....anyone with the clout would have to come to Rhaegar before a coup could go forward or include him with Aerys.

I could ask the question whats worse? Causing the singular death of your insane father thats a danger to himself and others? Or allowing thousands to die in a war you could have avoided? Its not as black and white as you might think.

 

[Fourth Hunter]

See, I've actually thought about it for a long time and come to the conclusion (perhaps erroneously, but it's what I believe) that no good person should be able to do anything like that to somebody that close to them. I feel that you would be responsible for that, while the person that you're close to (Aerys) would be responsible for what they did.

As for a peaceful coup; I don't know why that didn't occur to me, and yes, that would be preferable to everything else.