The Dark Knight (2008)

How much are you looking foward to this movie?

  • A little

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • A lot

    Votes: 3 21.4%

  • Can't freaken wait!

    Votes: 7 50.0%

  • not very

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Total voters
    14
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Tim Burton's Gotham was too pantomime for me - I refer Nolan's attempt at making it like a real city, and I also like his attention to detail. The flashbacks and such did confuse me a bit, but overall the film was realistically dark, and did give insight into why Bruce Wayne might become Batman. And it was filmed in England, Whoop!
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Every incarnation of Batman from Adam West to Michael Keaton to George Clooney to Christian Bale has refelcted more on the time the film was made. West's Batman reflected the nature of most 60's action programmes - camp, overacted and pantomime-like. All in all, a really enjoyable romp.

When Burton took the helm of the Batman franchise in the late 1980s, viewers were wanting more realistic storytelling in films. With a story like Batman (as unrealistic as it gets) it was necessary to cast someone like Michael Keaton to almost underplay the role of Bruce and his Batman slightly scary (to other characters but not the audience). Jack Nicholson's Joker meanwhile retained enough of the comic book style of the 60's Joker but with a touch of mental instability as opposed to downright insanity. Val Kilmer continued with Keaton's style of playing the title role and Jim Carey/Tommy Lee Jones pushed the overacting comic villains and almost took away any sense of danger about the roles of Riddler and Two Face respectively.

Then Joel Schumacher came along...
I have absolute respect for Schumacher as a film maker (The Number 23, Phantom of the Opera, Phonebooth). He knows how to make a good film. Batman forever was well made in terms of casting and effects and so on, but so much of the essence of what made Batman fantastic had been lost. However, it still reflected on the time it was made - in the mid 90s there were lots of big names flying around and the use of special effects was growing exponentially. Batman Forever had big names, bigger effects and even more over the top acting but it was clear that the franchise had lost it's way.

Nolan's revisioning of the franchise allowed him to get back to the bare bones of what Batman should be and respond to what audiences wanted in films (and still do). He made it darker, edgier, scarier and much more compelling. Audiences want more of this and Nolan delivered.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

sooo - and I'm going out on a limb here...

you've never read "Batman: year one" ???

Nolans story was heavily sourced from Millers graphic novel, the Ras Al goul story was out of an earlier account - its all about going back to basics.

As Shrek Baby pointed out Batman Movies have often reflected the times... the comic books have been little different.

Anybody here know that in the first incarnation of Batman he happily killed criminals? theres more than one he breaks the kneck of - he even killed the joker on his first outing :) He even carried a GUN at one point - something the "modern" batman wouldnt even contemplate.. so I agree one has to context the films but the context here is heavily Frank Miller.

Ok I'm rare as I though Jack Nicholson was the absolute worst person on planet earth to play the joker - hell they modified the script to accomodate jack, and a lot of the sceans they changed too - remember the last scean where batman's flying in all guns blazing (yet still amazingly missing)??? that scean the Joker was supposed to be jumping around a lot like a pin ball - but nope they pandered to nicholson and in the final version he just stood there.

Annnnnyyyyyyway...

The joker is best summed up in "the killing Joke" - I expect the dark night will have this as a strong influence to it, and perhaps parts of the dark knight returns and Arkam Asylum.

The Joker is possibly the most ill understood character in the batman univers but the most well known. Everybody thinks of him as a clown who then does evil things... the problem is the Joker IS a clown full stop - the litteral truth is everything he does he Thinks is funny - wether it be a pie in the face or a pie in the case with an acid filling - to him its the same but the "joke" element dictates if its lethal or not - also the Joker is the intellectual equal to the batman, just as smart in every way.

so heath ledger as the joker who can play it very dark, and comic will be a 100% better than jack who never got the character imo
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Uhhh..if you really read The Killing Joke, the Joker doesn't do what he does to Comm. Gordon because he thinks it's funny. He is openly sadistic and wants the man to completely lose his sanity, and make the world thereby realize that anybody under a defined set of circumstances could have become the Joker. That's not a funnyman cracking a macabre joke, that's white hot rage.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Harleyquin said:
sooo - and I'm going out on a limb here...

you've never read "Batman: year one" ???

Nolans story was heavily sourced from Millers graphic novel, the Ras Al goul story was out of an earlier account - its all about going back to basics.
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of Miller's interpretation of batman and I wished they took even more from Year one. My favorite scene in the Year One comics was when batman crashed that socialite party to tell all the corupt rich folks that the party was over with the light from the barbique casting an erie glow in his face. Also I wished batman begins went with a strong Sgt. Gordon rather than the whimpy but good hearted cop they made Oldman play.

I also seem to remember in the old comic batman shot joe chill with a gun point blank.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

ravenus said:
the Joker doesn't do what he does to Comm. Gordon because he thinks it's funny. He is openly sadistic and wants the man to completely lose his sanity, and make the world thereby realize that anybody under a defined set of circumstances could have become the Joker. That's not a funnyman cracking a macabre joke, that's white hot rage.
Click to expand...

And here in lies the the most subtle part in the story of the joker.

We know he's a failing comic, trying hard to cope when his pregnat wife buys a one way ticket on the heaven express. Is day get worse progressively ending up with el acid bath and his assertion that "anybody" given the correct circumstances will go insane.

Now as you pointed out what he does to the comish isnt funny - its sadistic.. however the REAL point is not that what he's doing is not only not out of a joke as is usual with him... but its deliberate and calculated.

The joker is insane yet demonstrates a plan that is compleatly and totaly sane, with a rationality hard to ignore... So boys and girls the thing that the killing joke asks us is not about his sadistic insane jokes - but rather if the joker is actually insane or not - all he's doing is "acting" insane to excuse his actions in a "white hot rage" and revenge against the whole world. This is the same but mirrored mental state that batman displays during his crusade which again shows the joker as being the mirror of the bat.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

I just realized that when this comes out it will be almost 20 years since Burton's re-imagining of Batman. There's a Batman and Joker movie about every 20 years. Batman: the movie 1966, Batman 1989, Dark Knight 2008. Too bad the 1943 Batman movie didn't have the joker.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Why the need for so much hate. If you dont like Batman just ignore him no one is forcing him upon you.


Sorry to let you down Batman is one of few comics from the early days in 30's that have survived and even dominated after 70 years old. I doubt he will die off in 20 years. Every movie will only make him stronger.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Oh i see.

I disliked many things in Batman Begins. They got 90% of Gotham and his world wrong as you can see my other post. Making Falcone brittish is like a sin IMO.

I enjoyed it only thanks to Bale. I will enjoy the second cause of the same reason.

Only good with cheesy sequals is in this case it makes my fav hero's name stronger in maintream people eyes :)
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

F'Lessan Amused said:
i just hope that in 2028-33 doesnt have a batman vs joker scenario...let alone a batman
Click to expand...

Well that wouldn't be in character for Batman himself... The Joker being Batman's arch nemisis and all.

What I hope for is that Batman does not kill the Joker. The is completely out of character for Batman and one of the reasons I don't rate Burton's visions very highly.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Gav said:
Well that wouldn't be in character for Batman himself... The Joker being Batman's arch nemisis and all.

What I hope for is that Batman does not kill the Joker. The is completely out of character for Batman and one of the reasons I don't rate Burton's visions very highly.
Click to expand...

What did he kill Joker then?

I never was fan of those Burton movies cause Keaton was totally wrong Batman.

Batman can never kill any villain let alone the sickest of them and the one he hates most. He is at the border line of becoming like his villains with the way he works and if he kills he will be the same as them.
 
Re: The Dark Knight: Nolan and Bale’s Batman 2

Connavar of Rigante said:
Oh i see.

I disliked many things in Batman Begins. They got 90% of Gotham and his world wrong as you can see my other post. Making Falcone brittish is like a sin IMO.

I enjoyed it only thanks to Bale. I will enjoy the second cause of the same reason.

Only good with cheesy sequals is in this case it makes my fav hero's name stronger in maintream people eyes :)
Click to expand...

I think I missed something because I never thought of Falcone as brittish in B.Begins. I remember the line 'ya got gutts kid' which sounds more like a generic Chicago movie thug but I haven't watch in a while. Also I think with decades worth of source material perhaps there is no difinitive version. Like the 60s Batman was probably closer to the comics at the time. I'm pretty sure that in the Bob Kane comic, batman actually shot Joe Chill point blank with a gun while wearing the cowl. re: cheezy sequels, Batman begins wasn't a sequel IMO but that may be a semantic distinction. It's not even a prequel because it's completely unrelated to Burton, et al movies. I've always linked super heroes to mythic characters. Like new movie takes on Robin hood in movie and TV crop up all the time without much fuss. I hope they don't kill Joker either; you need him out there.
 
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