Who is your favorite character is ASOIAF

[Tansy]

So presumably their were 7 independant monarchs of 7 lands that had to give up their supremacy to bow to the Targaryens?

 

[Koopa]

They killed 3 kings i think, 3 others lowered their head in submission, and Dorne came under their wing later on. I think. I am not sure how many kings died and how many bowed their heads, the king in the north knelt, other then that ... if you reallly wished to know you'll probably find ur answer in the tower of the hand.

TK please explain to me how you consider dany's invasion of westeros her single choice left. Personally i am somewhat starting to feel that you vehement objections against this possible (out of many) point of views is more because it is my point of view than out of the point of view itself. I might be wrong ofcourse.

tansy, as for westeros being at peace, i know that is not the case, but the point i am trying to make is that dany does not know this at the moment.

 

[lauren20062001]

I agree that Dany did make a choice when she decided to gather an army and prepare to invade Westeros. But living in peace wasn't really a viable option. Robert had been attempting to assasinate her, so it's reasonable of her to assume whichever claimant triumphs she'll still be on a hit list. Perhaps she would have eventually been forgotten, but Dany might not think that. Perhaps she believes the only way to live peacefully is to claim the Iron Throne. That said she is still placing her own happiness and 'rights' above the lives of the other claimants and peasants in Westeros, not sure how great of a ruler that makes her.

 

[Tansy]

She is very naive if she thinks being queen of Westeros will enable her a peaceful life

 

[TK-421]

TK please explain to me how you consider dany's invasion of westeros her single choice left. Personally i am somewhat starting to feel that you vehement objections against this possible (out of many) point of views is more because it is my point of view than out of the point of view itself. I might be wrong ofcourse.

Of course you are but don't take my posts personally as simply opposing yours for the sake of opposing since it came from you. It is never wise but rather vain to think that one's opinion matters that much. Simply put, get over yourself.

To repeat an earlier post: I never said that it her destiny to conquer Westeros but it may be that her destiny is to fail trying to conquer Westeros and by failing, bringing peace. That is but one of many possibilities that I see.

This is becoming one of those times, Kiwi, of knowing when to stop before you repeat a pattern. I would hate for any further insinuations to come of this exchange. I accepted your opinion long ago, I simply do not agree of your black and white assessment of Dany's character. Leave it at that.

 

[Koopa]

Very well,

However i am vain enough to take the last word, and that is that it is obvious from the choice of your words that your comments are rather pointed towards me. Also if there is one thing i know for certain, and wich you will most definitly agree on, is that i am, nor ever will be wise.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Hey Kiwi if it makes ya feel any better I agree with ya on Dany. Shes a warmonger with no more right to Westeros than anyone....everyone she could want revenge on (an acceptable motive considering) is dead...Ned, Robert, Jon Arryn, Gregor, and Tywin...leaving only Jaime. But really he's small potatoes in the scheme of things.

If she knew this, or truly desired peace she would stop in Astapor or Mereen and rule those people.

We had this entire conversation before of course...let me paraphrase.

Aegon: Dany is a warmonger
TK: What? I love Dany. She's the rightful ruler of westeros
Aeg: She will bring ruin for a throne
Boaz: I like chamomille tea
Kiwi: I agree, yer brilliant Aeg
Weirwood: Why with the fire and brimstone? She brings peace
Aegon: Bah!

Thats the way I remember it anyhow.

 

[MrWright]

My 2 cents are that Dany's "destiny" will be to blindly stumble into Westeros, cause a bit of death...and then realize that Others make better dragon-food than people...which is good, because I'm guessing there's a LOT of Others.

So she will be a destoryer and savior...all rolled into one...and when all hope is lost, Melisandre, on her own funeral pyre, will open the gateway to the...


WILD CARDS!!!

 

[woodsman]

Aegon: Dany is a warmonger
TK: What? I love Dany. She's the rightful ruler of westeros
Aeg: She will bring ruin for a throne
Boaz: I like chamomille tea
Kiwi: I agree, yer brilliant Aeg
Weirwood: Why with the fire and brimstone? She brings peace
Aegon: Bah!

Thats the way I remember it anyhow.

Boaz is some kind of genius, although that choice of tea would appear to be somewhat dodgy. Peppermint, Peppermint, Lady Grey.(Hmmmm)


I don't like Dany personally but thats just because she appears to refuse to face the truth. Motivated by greed? Dunno, possibably I thought she was just a fanatic for 'her' ''cause'' and she would stop at nothing to obtain it. Her treatment of Astapor killed her for me. How can she @%#£ on Jorah and Ser Barrystan when she betrayed/treated in a dishonourable way her partners in trade. Compared to Lysa (how I loved littlefinger for that) Cat and Cersai she do fair to be a positive saintess.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

One thing, are you comparing the slavers of Astapor to actual people? They are heartless slavers and she turned the tables on them in order to free the city and obtain an army.

I don't equate that to a personal betrayal like Jorah's. He professed to love her while at the same time making reports on her movements hoping to snag himself his title back.

GRRM is all about shades of gray, he's said this multiple times in the past. Black and white morality doesn't work in ASOIAF. It doesn't work in the real world either.

 

[woodsman]

As much people as Aerys and Viseries.

I agree and love martins greyness, it increases the chances to argue with myself and my opinion changes almost every time I re-read.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

I like the fact that in ASOIAF there isn't too much notion of destiny and such, so you don't know what's going to happen. But the birth of the dragons is one of the most significant symbols of destiny I think are in the book.

Discuss, but don't bite each other's heads off!

 

[lauren20062001]

I honestly think there is a bit too much destiny and prophecy. It lends for great speculation and gives us methods to direct that speculation, but it ruins some of the realism, which is my favorite aspect of the books. I like that anyone can die at any moment, and destiny tries to ruin that. Sorry I can't think of any really good examples. Rhaegar's decision to be a warrior, the prince that was promised, the blue rose at the wall I suppose.

 

[pan naranus]

I do not think that prophecy reduces realism. The realism is in the sensation the story evokes, you can touch and smell westros, even though it has freakish weather, impossible economy and ever increasing magic and dragons. Consider the fact that earth history was not lacking in prophecies and omens that caused real things to happen.

On the subject of dany. Yes, she causes havoc where ever she takes her army to. Yes, she is very resolute in her journey towards what she considers her heritage. But her claim to the throne is genuine, in according to medieval moral, her divine right is to sit the iron

throne. She reminds herself seventy eight times a day she is the blood of the dragon, and behaves accordingly.​

Maybe it's the fact that she is a pov, but I find her drive valid and just. She is noble, she gives justice, she shows signs of intelligence and she is at default, compassionate to human beings. ask yourself this question: was there any other ruler, among the five kings in westerose, the masterminds, and rulers of other nations or leaders of people that shows all of these characteristics?

Can a saint rule effectively? Do you want to be subjects of bealor the blessed?​

p.s rob is dead because he was a semi saint, that just proves my point.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Nice post Pan.

As for you Lauren.. *cracks knuckles menacingly*

Actually I agree with your stance on prophecy. While I don't think there's too much prophecy in ASOIAF, I don't like prophecy in fantasy, and it is in almost every fantasy series I read. I agree often it ruins some of the realism. Also, I often think its just a way out for authors to explain something. I hate the idea that a free-thinking character suddenly does something because destiny compels him to.

But I guess my point is that for Danys, the dragons were the clearest sign of her destiny. If she had any doubts about what she was doing, they were wiped away after the dragons hatched.

 

[TK-421]

I take The Blessed anyday over this other lot.

Hey, Egg: She is the rightful ruler but that doesn't mean she will get to rule. Something about the "bittersweet ending" that GRRM has promised seems ominous and even with the best laid plans and intentions (which clearly I think Dany has), there is another thing called Murphy's Law that usually screws everything up. I know Murphy very well, especially these days it seems...

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I didn't take the prophecies as something concrete, like predestination, more like weather predictions.

If Daenerys has a destiny it will be of her own making. Some people just have an impetus about them, like cosmic momentum. Take Joan of Arc for example. I feel Dany has the same quality.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

I reckon if she does get Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger on her side, she'll be unstoppable.

 

[lauren20062001]

What makes the prophecies of ASOIAF better, in my book, than most others is that they don't seem quite as concrete. I believe Martin can just disregard them, or at least interpret them differently. So though I don't like them in general Martin's books still rank as my favorite fantasy series.

 

[pan naranus]

I take The Blessed anyday over this other lot.

Hey, Egg: She is the rightful ruler but that doesn't mean she will get to rule. Something about the "bittersweet ending" that GRRM has promised seems ominous and even with the best laid plans and intentions (which clearly I think Dany has), there is another thing called Murphy's Law that usually screws everything up. I know Murphy very well, especially these days it seems...

When tyrion gave Joffery his wedding present is a storm of swords, he said a couple of words on bealor the blessed, he was a terrible ruler. It is mentioned in many other parts of the book. In my humble opinion, power will go to the people who strive for it, and most are no mahatma Gandhi, So the lesser of evils is someone with a humane vision, as oppose to Stanis for instance.

I reckon if she does get Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger on her side, she'll be unstoppable.

Little finger is always on little fingers side. do not let him near you, that just makes the back stabbing simpler.