The Golden Compass Controversy

[kyektulu]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I wouldn't say religious power is nothing compared to the power of a king, but I would say religious power can be used as another form of political power, and often is. One advantage religion has over politics is its direct access to an emotional hold over its professers, which gives it more buttons to push where it comes to social control. The medieval Roman Catholic church had great political power because of its strong following among the common people - it was able to inspire fear and loyalty in a way few kings could because of what it represented.

Many of the "evils of religion" - though not all - are in reality politically motivated.

My guess would be that people who blame everything horrible on religion only have a superficial understanding of history. The core of many religions is a striving for betterment, and most people who would call themselves religious just want to be good people. But as with every organisation that has ever existed since we came down out of the trees (or whatever we did), the cake of religion is flavoured with a liberal sprinkling of idiots. So is the cake of Atheism.

I have been reading this thread with interest and you have hit the nail on the head hun, its power that is the main motivator but they shroud themselves in religion to justify their actions.

I am not religious, although a friend of mine has recently converted to Christianity and I have to say the change in her is amazing. It doesnt work for me but it has for her and im all for that.
She would laugh at christians debasing this film, after all its up to the viewer to interprite as they choose.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

.....and close down all competition for their own system, through a combination of indoctrination, argument, and intimidation.

Now let's see what does that remind me of........

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

But apparently blaming the evils of the world on atheists is acceptable

ABC News: Pope Says Atheism Led to 'Greatest Cruelty'
Saudi king calls for interfaith talks -Times Online

If you could perhaps get your religious leaders to stop doing this, it would be much appreciated. I have been told by various people that I'm a kind and considerate person and certainly all the atheists that i know in RL are really nice people it's a bit baffling to be wrongfully accused.

Heh heh, getting religious leaders to stop doing that is like expecting the owners of McDonalds to recommend that people eat at Pizza Hut. Don't take them too seriously - I'm sure as an atheist you don't have too high an opinion of what they believe, so why rise to the bait? Old blokes in funny hats say all sorts of things, finger-pointing is probably part of their job description.

As for blaming the evils of the world on atheists, that makes just as much sense as blaming the evils of the world on religious people - ie, none - and seeing as atheism is supposed to be about making sense, I would take it all with a grain of salt if I were you.

 

[biodroid]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I find it quite cheesy that you get born-again christians but are still promiscuous and smoke drugs and drink till drunk and then go to church and get their sins forgiven. Hypocrits! One of the reasons I am not religious is because I don't want to hide behind a religion for my actions and say "but God will forgive me of my sins" and then I can carry on doing it.

Golden Compass was a real poor movie anyway and as far as I saw there was no religious implications made in the movie. I will definitely not be waiting for the second one, thats if they will even make a second one after this one flopped.

 

[lin robinson]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

But apparently blaming the evils of the world on atheists is acceptable

I've never heard world evils blamed on atheists.

I hear atheists blaming it all on God all the time.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I've never heard world evils blamed on atheists.

I hear atheists blaming it all on God all the time.

For atheists to blame anything on god would be a bit strange don't you think?

 

[Allegra]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

For atheists to blame anything on god would be a bit strange don't you think?

LOL! Good one Mo.

 

[lin robinson]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

For atheists to blame anything on god would be a bit strange don't you think?

I'm always glad when people pick up on my material (if that's what happened here)

But seriously, in case you haven't noticed, atheists spend more time talking about and dissing God than any other group of people.

 

[Cayal]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Maybe I am master of the obvious here but blaming God has more to do with religion people believing in one not because Atheists believe in one.

 

[edott]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I have never understood how this books are considered anti christian or anti-God, perhaps anti-catholic or agaisnt organized religion. But all the characters have deep spiritual convictions.

 

[lin robinson]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I think it's because the author said they are. At great length. He might have been having a little fun, who knows?

He comes of as a priggish jerk in his commentaries, to my view, but you can't fault his artistic vision.

 

[animal_lover_06]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I've Read Northen Lights and seen the film and don't understand where the idea it was anti-christian came from! :S

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I'm always glad when people pick up on my material (if that's what happened here)

But seriously, in case you haven't noticed, atheists spend more time talking about and dissing God than any other group of people.

How can you diss something that doesn't exist?

I think you need to look up the meaning of 'atheist' before posting again.

 

[TorrnT]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

Atheists, Heathens, Agnostics (the trivial interpretation), Infidels and others pigeon holes I may not know about.
Because of our societies heavy religious leanings ( Even though I do not believe in a God), psychologically, I feel those names belong to bad people,weird.

 

[purple_kathryn]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

I'm always glad when people pick up on my material (if that's what happened here)

But seriously, in case you haven't noticed, atheists spend more time talking about and dissing God than any other group of people.

I think what my fellow atheists are trying to do it point out to believers that if you believe your god is A, B & C then D, E and F contradict that.

In order to do that that have to, for the purposes of the argument, assume a gods existance.

So for example when hurricanes happen we want to know why you don't believe your god is responsible for it or why are they ineptly punishing a group of people for what they do in their private lives.

it doesn't actually mean they/I believe in your god or think he/she/it causes hurricanes we're trying to either understand why you believe your god exists or make you see that he/she/it doesn't.

I don't see why so many people have a problem grasping this.
Personally speaking i don't give two hoots what people believe as long as they don't think their beliefs deserve special consideration above all other, and they some how have a right to dictate what I should be doing in my life based on those beliefs.

and yes plenty of religious leaders inc the pope have declared atheism to be the problem with the world.

 

[lin robinson]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

How can you diss something that doesn't exist?

The big question would be Why?

I think you need to look up the meaning of 'atheist' before posting again.

Oh, I'm well aware of the meaning of the word. Perhaps you should learn to read a little more insightfully before posting again?

 

[daisybee]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

This is an interesting thread thats wandered off somewhere-

I really did not want to read the Pullman books- I get stubborn like that sometimes when I feel like the world is saying do it or else! LOL.

Now I am glad I did, and in regard to the whole backlash thing, well it's hardly surprising is it?

The books are rather one sided after all. However the books are negative about religious institutions/ideologies-not faith itself. Without faith the books would not exist.

People get their pants in a twist all the time over stuff like this, there is a marked difference between criticizing religious construct and religious faith.

People of faith are entitled to question their religious leaders; just as they are entitled to question their political leaders.

Knee jerk reactions by certain factions of the religious community only serve to highlight the fact that fanatical worship of any kind is not inducive to rational thinking.

 

[mosaix]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

The big question would be Why?

My point was, Lin that Atheists don't 'diss' god. They just don't believe any such thing exists, so how could they?

Some, may well 'diss' the effect that the belief in god has on the world around us, but that's not the same thing.

 

[The Procrastinator]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

They do diss the idea of god, and the belief in god. There's plenty of "Nyah nyah na nyah nyah" level arguments on both sides of that particular fence. I find it funny how some atheists seem compelled to mention their lack of belief (or belief in non-belief etc etc) as much as believers seem compelled to talk about their faith - dropping it into conversation oh so casually. Both can be preachy and come across as superior, patronising, or arrogant. Even ignorant. I guess "rational thinking" is not always conducive to rational thinking either?

(Btw I am fully aware that most atheists are not like this, just as most religious people aren't either...)

 

[purple_kathryn]

Re: Golden Compass Backlash...

They do diss the idea of god, and the belief in god. There's plenty of "Nyah nyah na nyah nyah" level arguments on both sides of that particular fence. I find it funny how some atheists seem compelled to mention their lack of belief (or belief in non-belief etc etc) as much as believers seem compelled to talk about their faith - dropping it into conversation oh so casually. Both can be preachy and come across as superior, patronising, or arrogant. Even ignorant. I guess "rational thinking" is not always conducive to rational thinking either?

(Btw I am fully aware that most atheists are not like this, just as most religious people aren't either...)

I haven't met *any* atheists like this. I've yet to meet an atheist who has mentioned their atheism at any other time than when it might be relevant to the discussion. Why wouldn't it be mentioned casually btw? Should it be some big serious announcement? I certainly have used my atheism as an explanation as while I hold a certain opinion "but I'm an atheist anyway" (and therefore I may see it differently to you). I don't see what could be wrong with that.

Even online anything pro atheism discussions I have come across have not been out of context . Not, for example, while playing a game on yahoo.

The only people i have come across who are preachy or bring theism/atheism up out of context are religious people. I appreciate that it's only a small minority andbut it's not 6 of one half a dozen of the other you're trying to make it out to be.