April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Reading

[elvet]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I finished the Dragon Prince trilogy (Melanie Rawn) and just started Dragon Star's first book, Stronghold. I like the continuity of characters and the geography is becoming familiar now. There is a lot of detail about who runs what holding and now we're into second and sometimes third generations from the original characters. I really am partial to the way that magic is evolving from what was previously a skill to something that is powerful and instills fear. It is not taken for granted, and we don't often get to see magic from the point of view of major characters that do not possess it.

 

[annabelle]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I finished yesterday Kushiel' Jusctice by Jacqueline Carey. Not quite as good as her previous trilogy, but it's a solid read. If you like fantasy with beautifully written characters, adventures, twisted villains, politics and romance, I suggest you may try Jacqueline Carey. She's among my fav writers

Right now, I'm plodding my way through Deadhouse Gates. I read Garden of the Moon 3 years ago and hated it. But I've decided to give Erikson another go, because there is so much praise about him I have the feeling I have missed something. I hope I will change my mind about MBOTF. We'll see...

oh by the way, I'm new here !

 

[Thadlerian]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Finally finished House of Chains by Steven Erikson. It sure has some merit, and I guess I will continue the series after all, and pick up Midnight Tides someday.

 

[Call me Gytha]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Moving the thread OT slightly here and I apologise, I have never read Erikson although I do have 2 of his books in ebook format (which is what is putting me off). Out of all the prolific writers in the genre, how does he rank?

 

[Thadlerian]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Moving the thread OT slightly here and I apologise, I have never read Erikson although I do have 2 of his books in ebook format (which is what is putting me off). Out of all the prolific writers in the genre, how does he rank?

I don't know if I'm really the right to tell you, as I'm only halfway through his current books, but here's my take:

The Malazan books' prime virtue, in my view, is that they're cool. There's no other way to put it. There's lots and lots of stuff going on, loads of characters, and everything you see has a grand backstory. And through it all the characters move effortlessly, gracefully, and there's something going on all the time. There is a sense of grandeur, like Tolkien, only more wild, unbelievable and entertaining.

But there's a major cost to this. Erikson's characterization is, well, pretty much non-existent. They're hard to tell apart as human (or humanoid) beings, especially as they start coming in scores. The average character of House of Chains is either A: The quiet, brooding pro, or B: His/her talkative companion.

And, of course, there is the gender differentiation. The female characters of the series, with a few exceptions, most importantly Tattersail, appear to be tragic, dead-serious, humourless and grudging, never to be allowed the snappy remarks or the relaxed fun which their male counterparts seem to make out of everything.

In short: Erikson's books are great entertainment, but the lack of characterization ranks him (in my view) way below writers like Le Guin, Pullman, Wolfe, Bakker, Pratchett, Miéville and Martin.

 

[zabylin]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I finished Maledicte by Lane Robins last night. I liked it a lot. I read a review somewhere in which it was compared to Carey's Kushiel books, but I didn't enjoy those much. This book was good dark fantasy, but could have had a stronger ending and more of a back-story. She mentions lots of gods and goddesses that sound interesting, but aren't developed except for one.

 

[GOLLUM]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

In short: Erikson's books are great entertainment, but the lack of characterization ranks him (in my view) way below writers like Le Guin, Pullman, Wolfe, Bakker, Pratchett, Miéville and Martin.

Interesting observation.

As you know I rank Erikson's series as the best EPIC fantasy series I've ever read. I'm probably judging more on the plotlines, magic systems and worldbuilding than the charatcerization. Having said that when you read through the remaining books you will see some good character development appear and he does have some fantastically dry and witty humour thrown in.

As a writer I agree there are many better including the ones you list, so I think we're probably talking along similar lines here.

Hope this helps Gytha and check out the Erikson forum we have here.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I also found this interesting (I'm currently reading Gardens of the Moon).

Maybe this is the crucial difference between GRRM and Erikson - in Martin's books the characterisation is excellent, mind-boggingly good I think. But then again, I haven't read enough Erikson to form my own judgment.

 

[DeepThought]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I think people who have read Martin are looking for two many similarities from Erikson (which I think is unfair); readers are misunderstanding when we say ASOIF & Malazan are two of the best EPIC fantasies around. It doesn’t necessarily mean both are very similar other than the fact that they are huge, well written, with a multitude of characters. Malazan is a military fantasy, it doesn’t zooming in on the squabbles of the nobility and its many Lords and Ladies ala court intrigue (which is I think what ASOIF fans are looking for?). Just give Erikson a fresh chance without any preconceived notions, I agree that the first volume; GOTM is a slow start and can seem confusing at first, but trust me the last hundred pages are worth the wait!...

On the issue of characters, I think you’ll see them gaining more and more depth as you move along in the series. Erikson can’t afford to spend too much time on one character after another the way Martin does, since the former’s got to juggle much more and its not just humans (not just cultures but different races!). In the end, its just a matter of taste. If you read up to Memories of Ice, and if that thing doesn’t seem give you shivers , IMHO there is no point in continuing any further.

Cheers, DeepThought

 

[Call me Gytha]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Thanks to all for the comments re Erikson. This has extended my "to be read" list quite considerably

 

[Pyan]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Just finished The Hidden Stars...ordered A Dark Sacrifice..

 

[DeepThought]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Finished Rendezvous with Rama; good infusion of literary prose with hard SF concepts, a rare author, sad to see him go. Now Already sixty pages into Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein and enjoying it . I've read a lot of Asimov, Clarke, PKD but very little Heinlein, so obviously very excited about this read.

Cheers, DeepThought

 

[Connavar]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

I don't know if I'm really the right to tell you, as I'm only halfway through his current books, but here's my take:

The Malazan books' prime virtue, in my view, is that they're cool. There's no other way to put it. There's lots and lots of stuff going on, loads of characters, and everything you see has a grand backstory. And through it all the characters move effortlessly, gracefully, and there's something going on all the time. There is a sense of grandeur, like Tolkien, only more wild, unbelievable and entertaining.

But there's a major cost to this. Erikson's characterization is, well, pretty much non-existent. They're hard to tell apart as human (or humanoid) beings, especially as they start coming in scores. The average character of House of Chains is either A: The quiet, brooding pro, or B: His/her talkative companion.

And, of course, there is the gender differentiation. The female characters of the series, with a few exceptions, most importantly Tattersail, appear to be tragic, dead-serious, humourless and grudging, never to be allowed the snappy remarks or the relaxed fun which their male counterparts seem to make out of everything.

In short: Erikson's books are great entertainment, but the lack of characterization ranks him (in my view) way below writers like Le Guin, Pullman, Wolfe, Bakker, Pratchett, Miéville and Martin.

Which is why i decided not read more Erikson in the near future. Im not comparing him to anyone else in fantasy but his lack of characterization stopped me from enjoying the interesting and unique world for a modern fantasy.

In SF you can get away without any characterization cause its as good to make books about ideas,social problems etc but in a fantasy the characters is the most important IMO without them even the best fantasy world is useless.

 

[DeepThought]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Which is why i decided not read more Erikson in the near future. Im not comparing him to anyone else in fantasy but his lack of characterization stopped me from enjoying the interesting and unique world for a modern fantasy...

Then its your loss Conn . But seriously, what Thadlerian is listing; Le Guin, Pullman, Wolfe, Bakker, Pratchett, Miéville and Martin are the cream of the crop when it comes to character development in fantasy and they are seasoned veterans to boot with the exception of Bakker, Mieville while Erikson is relatively young to the genre. Especially Martin, Mieville etc. these guys are Mages, specialists of you will, in crafting characters, they are phenomenal in this respect and leagues beyond most authors in the genre IMHO. So Erikson's characters not measuring up to them does not in anyway mean he lacks in this respect, in fact his are pretty good compared to a lot of EPIC fantasy. What he arguably lacks in this department, he makes up tenfold in; world-building, the depth and insight into the myriad of cultures and Malazan being the most complex EPIC fantasy written to date (without sagging beneath its immense weight). Taking all these into consideration, its quite a feat.

Cheers, DeepThought

 

[Lenny]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

What a coinky-dink - I finished House of Chains about fifteen minutes after Thadlerian posted last night! After Deadhouse Gates, it's got to be my favourite of the series so far.

And I've got Midnight Tides sat at my elbow waiting to be started... which, in all honesty, I'm not looking forward to. Apart from Trull Sengar, I don't recognise anyone on the character list, and I've grown quite attached to those in the other four books. Still, at least I'll have The Bonehunters to look forward to!

 

[Connavar]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Then its your loss Conn . But seriously, what Thadlerian is listing; Le Guin, Pullman, Wolfe, Bakker, Pratchett, Miéville and Martin are the cream of the crop when it comes to character development in fantasy and they are seasoned veterans to boot with the exception of Bakker, Mieville while Erikson is relatively young to the genre. Especially Martin, Mieville etc. these guys are Mages, specialists of you will, in crafting characters, they are phenomenal in this respect and leagues beyond most authors in the genre IMHO. So Erikson's characters not measuring up to them does not in anyway mean he lacks in this respect, in fact his are pretty good compared to a lot of EPIC fantasy. What he arguably lacks in this department, he makes up tenfold in; world-building, the depth and insight into the myriad of cultures and Malazan being the most complex EPIC fantasy written to date (without sagging beneath its immense weight). Taking all these into consideration, its quite a feat.

Cheers, DeepThought

Not to diss him cause he isnt bad but i have tried many old and new authors of fantasy that impressed me for various reasons that i rather spend time and money on them and not force myself more of Erikson series.

I will read later on cause i liked the first book but not the second one and im a newbie on many fantasy writers that i rather read people i enjoyed more than him for now.

Its not like GRRM who i dont think i will ever read again.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Just finished The Other Boleyn Girl last night. Really enjoyed this book. Took me a few chapters to really get into, but a great read. The tone of the book changes quite dramatically. The court is a totally different place in the beginning of the book than where it is when the story ends. And Anne is quite the nasty character.

Have no idea what I'm going to read next, but I have plenty of unread books sitting on my shelf to choose from.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Just finished The Hidden Stars...ordered A Dark Sacrifice..

I'm very happy that you liked it enough to order the second volume.

 

[Mark Robson]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Just finished Sam Enthoven's The Black Tattoo. A good read for youngsters. Subtle it is not. Fun it is. Those who like martial arts stories, or who suffer a monster fetish, would do well reading Sam's work. He has some cracking monsters!

Darren Shan's Cirque du Freak is next.

 

[j d worthington]

Re: April's Astonishing, Astounding (and Sometimes Overpowering) Adventures in Readin

Have finished rereading The Moonstone; 40 years makes a lot of difference in my impression of that book (though both were favorable... just very different).

Am now rather torn between reading Collins' The Haunted Hotel, Moorcock's The Shores of Death, and Ballard's The Wind from Nowhere (feeling in a Ballardian mood again lately....)