JANNY WURTS: Initiate's Trial: Speculation SPOILER WARNING!!!

[Clansman]

Now that Ms. Wurts is well on her way to selling out the first run of Stormed Fortress, with the ninth volume of The Wars of Light and Shadow well underway, and with it being the first of a duology for the fourth arc (entitled Sword of the Canon) of that series, I thought that a speculation thread might be a good thing to have. The name of the forthcoming book is Sword of the Canon: Initiate's Trial. The second volume of the fourth arc duology will be called Sword of the Canon: Destiny's Conflict.

WARNING. SPOILERS WILL INEVITABLY BE PRESENT FOR THOSE ALREADY PUBLISHED BOOKS. IF YOU ARE READING THIS SERIES, OR ARE THINKING OF IT, GO BACK NOW. IF YOU AREN'T THINKING OF READING THIS SERIES, AND YOU LOVE EPIC FANTASY, CHANGE YOUR MIND, START READING IT AT CURSE OF THE MISTWRAITH, BUT STILL GO BACK NOW.

AGAIN SPOILERS BELOW. STOP READING NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED.
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Though several topics come to mind for me, number one for me is Arithon's daughter by Glendien. That is the biggest development aside from the eradication of the curse from Arithon, and his mastery of Alithiel.

Another is Davien being made whole, and the remaining members of the F7 becoming a lot more chummy. Shrakroschiel (or however you spell that name)! A dragon! And an interesting dragon, too. Will Kharadmon and Luhain have a chance to be corporeal again?

Sulfin Evend. What's next?

Koriathain, the F7, and the bitter defeat. What was it, and what will happen?

The Religion of the Light. What now?

The free wraiths of Marak. 'Nuff said!

Elaira's spell crystal. Too much not said!


And that pile is just off the top of my head.

Anyone is free to join into this wild speculation, and flesh it out a bit.

 

[dekket]

Grimwards. If a live dragon can tame the dreams of the dead (dragons), and possibly end the threat of the Grimwards once and for all, what would this mean in terms of freed up resources for the fellowship?

Would the other discorporate sorceror's wish to have rewoven bodies?

We are still waiting on the Paravian presence returned to the continent.

Black Rose Prophecy needs a resolution.

Lirenda regaining her autonomy? perhaps?

The centuries that pass with Alestron sealed lends itself to many more decades of strife for the Paravian continent.

Dakar's visions of Arithon being charged by the Unicorn.

Havish being invaded by the Alliance? It will come eventually.

More details about the Fellowship history. What was the Great Weapon that destroyed humanity?

 

[The Procrastinator]

First off let me say I can't wait for Lirenda to regain her autonomy and get in the poo again. I love her character. She is so hot-headed and short-sighted, she defeats herself every time. Is there anyone she wouldn't have a grudge against at this point? I can see her stabbing Selidie in the back big time further down the track, thereby cutting off her nose to spite her face of course.

I thought the development with whatsisname..the handsome one...blonde fellow...ah yes Lysaer...was fantastic. One thing I love about him, he may be the bad guy, following his flawed vision with all that integrity, but when Arithon lifts the fog and he sees clearly, he uses the very same integrity to see his own flaws, and doesn't flinch from it. I am very much looking forward to further developments there - will he, too, be able to beat the curse with Sulfin Evend's help? Will the religion he has started overwhelm him?

 

[Clansman]

Yes, Lirenda has been far too quiescent for my liking. She is so good at stepping in poo (nice turn of phrase, P). I read FP last fall in preparation for SF in the hope that I could read all of the Alliance books (yeah, right) before I got SF, and man did she ever mess it up with Caoll. Morriell's plan had been perfect, and Lirenda totally cocked it up.

However, she is the festering and thwarted former favoured one, and I hope that she is loosened a bit. She also has the hots for Arithon, which makes things interesting. He almost freed her in SF, correct? But she got scared or something. I'll have to check.

The dragon is the most intriguing development for me. I too, wonder if Kharadmon and Luhaine will once again become corporeal, like Davien. Maybe, maybe not. They'd have to strike a deal. Also, the Grimwards. Is Sheshy strong enough to wipe them out, or are some to strong for her, or will she bother at all.

The key to the next arc, I think, is Lysaer. Arithon is now redeemed from the Curse, but Lysaer must be redeemed for it to be finally beaten. I still believe that the brothers were cursed to prevent them from doing something, as opposed as revenge for what they did at Ithamon when they trapped Desh-Thiere. It is the brothers working together that will defeat DT and the free wraiths on Marak. This will also necessarily involve Arithon's naming powers as Masterbard.

This being said, how does Lysaer get to that happy place?

I think that only after that happens, does Black Rose happen.

 

[Clansman]

chirrrrrp chirrrrp chirrrrrp chirrrrp chirrrp chirrrp chirrrp chirrrp chirrrp...

Grimward? Dekket? Proscrastinator?

chirrrp chirrrp chirrrrp

Dang crickets! Can't hear a thing!

 

[The Procrastinator]

The sad fact is, Clanny, I'm terrible at talking about books in detail, because I always forget the detail. The one genuine exception to that would be LOTR which I have read so often it is tattooed on my eyeballs.

Having said that I agree with what you say about Lysaer - someone is going to have to redeem him! They need him for moving the furniture or something. But seriously, it feels like its heading for some kind of redemption there. I wonder if he will sacrifice himself after he's done all the wraithblasting etc.

 

[Clansman]

Well, I certainly don't expect either Lysaer or Arithon to sit down when all is said and done and rule their respective kingdoms as if nothing had happened. Neither one will rule, at least not for long. Arithon must embrace kingship in order for the Paravians to return, thus fulfilling the Black Rose Prophecy.

How might Black Rose be fulfilled? Is the Black Rose a plant, that would grow on Daon Ramon, or is Black Rose a person? Perhaps it is Arithon's child? Or even his second child, as the first is being raised at Althain, and will then be off to the Beidar....

Dekket is usually pretty good at detail. Me, I'm due for a re-read from beginning to end before the next book is out.

 

[The Procrastinator]

Will Arithon get a "happily ever after", do you think?

 

[dekket]

My take on the Mistwraith's curse is very much that it was imposed to stop any further collaboration of Lysaer and Arithon. Very much emphasis has been placed on the combined powers of the two brothers.
Working in concert, the Prince of Light and the Master of Shadow managed to defeat and entrap Desh-thiere, even though the Mistwraith had already learnt/absorbed all of the mage training that Arithon had so far undergone.
Supposedly they could have also gone on the so divert the worlds through the South Worldsend gate likewise.
However, ss Desh-thiere was able to build upon this Foundational training to work the curse on Lysaer and Arithon, I wonder if the mistwraith had also built upon other abilities (such as Arithon's scrying the future in a tinielle trance). It is possible that Desh-thiere, at the moment of its capture and the cursing of the two brothers, already knew much of the future course of events.
Could it be possible that the curse had another use, other than simply stopping any further alliance between the brothers?
Since the partial incursion though the South Gate, the Mistwraith had merely been waiting, blanketing the entire sky, but not otherwise interferring with life on Athera.
On the worlds through the South Gate, where all of Desh-thiere was active, all of life was entinguished.
We know (from Kharadmon's investigation of Marak) that the original experiment (that evolved into the Mistwraith) was a weapons technology. This would imply that, in essence, the Mistwraith exists to kill/destroy.
Obviously the portion that entered into Athera was not significant enough to destroy the life of the world.
The Mistwraith on Athera (trapped) needed to be rejoined with its fellows (on Marak).
With the South Worldsend Gate inactive, the only way for the wraiths to get to Athera would be through the void of space.
But the wraiths don't know where the two planets are in relation to each other.
So Desh-thiere (on Athera) curses the brothers.
This prompts the fellowship to send Kharadmon to investigate Desh-thiere's origins.
Kharadmon is out of contact for long enought that Asandir and Sethvir send out the beacon to guide Kharadmon back the Athera.
But in doing so has now drawn a line between Marak and Athera, which the wraith's are now able to follow.
Is it possible that Desh-thiere knew this would happen through its own version of scrying/casting strands?
The Fellowship can not track the future actions of Desh-thiere in their attempts of casting of strands to see the future (as it has not been Named), however Desh-thiere would have been able to track the future actions of the Fellowship, etc, who have been named.

But of course this is all idle speculation on my part. We will have to wait and see what Janny reveals in the books to come to discover how much the Mistwraith new of future events when it was captured.

Another supposition. Suppose Lysaer had been approached by a Paravian and offered redeption during the period he was under the calming influence of Alithiel (and basically free of the disruptive effects of the curse) during the siege of Aleston.
Would he have taken an opportunity to be free of the curse?

We at least know now that Arithon and his blade, acting together, can at least give his half-brother some moments of clarity.

 

[Tier s'Ffalenn]

That is a very interesting idea, Dekket. In CotMW, we know that the F7 discovered that Desh-Thiere was both sentient and had some sort of ability regarding time. Is this what led to the Curse?

Is Desh-Thiere able to use those aspects of Traithe that it corrupted before he burned part of his awareness away during the first moments of Desh-Thiere's invasion? Making Traithe whole, I believe, is part of the Black Rose Prophecy, along with bringing back Ciladis and re-corporating Kharadmon and Luhaine.

 

[dekket]

Initially posted by Tier s'Ffalenn

In CotMW, we know that the F7 discovered that Desh-Thiere was both sentient and had some sort of ability regarding time.

Traithe (and later Arithon) had major problems dealing with Desh-Thiere because the wraiths were able to be/act a few moments ahead in time. Every defense raised was ineffective as when it came into being the wraiths were already past it.
I haven't worded that very well, but I hope I have managed to get accross the point that the Mistwraith can exist a few instances 'ahead' in time.

The 'pieces' of Traith burnt away now apparantly only exist within the portion of Desh-Thiere that is currently 'locked away'.

The core of the Black Rose Prophecy revolves around the restoration of the Fellowship, which would entale the 'healing' of Traithe, the return of Ciladis the lost, and Davien returning to the 'fold'.

 

[Grimward]

*Grim strums a barred G again, effecting both thread transfer and hoping to silence the blasted crickets (who by the way have run roughshod over the Koriathain thread)*

Sorry Pro, I see the reason more fully here; will stop pecking about posts on the Koriathain.

Where to begin? Or, perhaps, where to join in.

Personally, I have minor misgivings about the dragon (singular, for now, although who knows!!!) taking an active role in the story. All of these painstakingly defined underpinnings Janny's put into her creation are now at risk. Let's face it; who tells the dragons what they can and can't do? I don't think Seshkrozchiel "mentioned" Ath once in SF.

• An upstart power builds a city over a 2nd age ruin, and happens to have skulls of baby dragons in it? Re the baby dragon skulls, they were placed two books ago, it's true. Re the city, however, no problem, we'll slag all of it and the innocents along with the guilty, taking maybe a half page to destroy what was wrought over the course of at least one book, if not two...
• A discorporate sorceror needs to be re-embodied, so he strikes a deal with a dragon (whom he just happens to have access to for such purpose). OK, based on the compact, fair enough, but now he has convenient access to the dragon's services for dual purpose of rescuing a fellow sorceror and (apparently) demolishing the grimward (G-A-S-P! Say it isn't so! What are these claws doing, trying to crush my head?!!! ) the Sorceror is imprisoned in? (BTW, I missed where it said that the remaining two grimwards were similarly addressed....SF doesn't seem to make this clear...) I saw the fact that Seshkrozchiel is expecting something in return, but why after all this time would the dragons take an active interest (not to mention role in eliminating, or at least neutralizing, given previous point about remaining two grimwards) the grimwards now?

What next can we expect turned on its ear? More importantly, will Janny return to laying groundwork for such events (maybe I missed it, but other than a looming sense that we'd see them at some point, I for one saw no prior setup for this happening...).

More in next post....reality beckons!

 

[Clansman]

The danger is that Seshkrozchiel (hereinater "Sesh", because it's way easier to type) could become something of a deus et machina. Now, I don't see Janny doing that to this story, but I wouldn't be surprised if some are thinking that already about Sesh in SF. Mind you, she almost lost the battle, and Davien and Asandir at the same time (not to mention Mandarb). I don't think she is going after any other grimwards right away. The one she beat was that of a frustrated male dragon who kept losing mating rituals. The remaining ones might be much more powerful.

It also looks like Kharadmon and LUhaine could be re-embodied with a flick of Seshy's tail. But then, they'd have to strike a bargain too.

Perhaps Sesh is going to deal with some of the messes left behind by her kin (Karadrim, meth-spawn, etc.), since the F7 haven't been able to deal with that stuff in about 7000-odd years.

Now, what does Davien have to do for this bargain, or has he already fulfilled it in some way? I got the impression that the dragon gave him power BEFORE he was re-embodied. And just where did this fully grown female dragon come from?

 

[Grimward]

And just where did this fully grown female dragon come from?

She apparently was hidden under the perfect chamber deep within the Mathorns, accessible only thru Davien's pool. Why imprison herself there, though, unless the pool is just a gateway....? By the way, that whole description of how Davien fell into oblivion, only to land in a wide open eye brighter than the sun...sheer magic.


Which brings me to another thing about SF that troubled me; the change in how Janny uses the chapter's title pages. Prior to this book, those snippets of plot development were pretty much relegated to just that; plot development. In Stormed Fortress, however, Janny drops two huge events on us like the proverbial ton of bricks, one of which was multiple books in the making. The first, and the one that had been stewing since at least Traitor's Knot (but has roots all the way back to Ships of Merior) was Feylind's death. One of Arithon's many oaths involved the protection of Feylind and Fiark, and here we are, dealing with all but her final words with Arithon in the snippet. Oh sure, there's the description of what the boarding party finds in the aftermath of Lysaer's attack on Evenstar, and there's the sentence in the previous chapter where Feylind asks Tieve if he has any regrets, but that's pretty much all to mark the passing of a character who's had many a chapter devoted to her. I mean, even Fionn Areth's passing got more pen.


The second snippet housing a bombshell was the dragon. I mean, bursting out of the side of a mountain and leaving a clan scout senseless, hinge-jawed, and probably with smelly britches in a chapter snippet? Especially after finishing the chapter before with the aforementioned magical passage about Davien's invocation of Seshkrozchiel (I had to make myself phoneticize it before I could comfortably read passages in the book that reference her, Clanster, so don't feel bad!), you'd think the snippet at most would have built on the sense of mystery following the initial eye reference.

Other thoughts on the dragon, folks?

 

[Grimward]

Found this while searching for something else. It's kind of simplistic, and the adverisements are annoying, but I think you can get past them by scrolling all the way down to get your results.....I ended up getting pegged as Fiark; see how you all do.

http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=Bananaland/

 

[dekket]

Origianally posted by Clansman

I got the impression that the dragon gave him power BEFORE he was re-embodied. And just where did this fully grown female dragon come from?

It gathered that it was the Dragon's power that allowed the Eagle to be physically there, rather than just a spirit clad in illusion, that Morriel was so disrupted by in her attempt to capture Davien in the Great Waystone.

I have the feeling that the presence of the Dragon has been hinted at it snipets throughout the past several books.
Have just launched into another re-read of the entire series, this time with the plan of keeping an eye out for specific 'dragon/drake' related references.

 

[Grimward]

Well, we all knew they weren't dead or vanished, and were left to assume that they'd left Athera's care and the management of the compact in the hands of the Fellowship. That having been said, Dek, you raise an interesting question; was Davien's ability to establish physical presence the result of an ongoing bequest from the dragon (ie, Davien is imbued with some portion of the dragon's power/abilities), or was it a condition of their bargain that he regain control over corporeal form?

If the former, I reiterate that Davien, with access to the Dragon's power, will have even more ability to twist and churn events as he sees fit. I rather think, however, that it's the latter; else, why reconcile with Asandir? If you're in Davien's boots (he's never described as wearing anything else! ), you don't need to reconcile with Asandir. Not only that, you don't even really have to rescue him (I'm speaking to cause and effect, of course; Davien's never been portrayed in his dialouge as that uncaring, regardless of his title amongst the common folk) and thru the restoration of Scarpdale, rescue Sethvir. I'm quite sure the Dragon (maybe with the help of her brethren) could grant Earth Sight/Sense to someone else....they gave it to Sethvir in the first place, didn't they?

Wish I had the time to execute a re-read, Dek. And just a suggestion: Were it me, I'd be looking for things, however minor, that are maintained but not never explained, even if they don't seem related to the dragons. You might also revisit the flashback that either Asandir or Sethvir has where their arrival on Athera and their fellowship is established under the compact.

 

[dekket]

Initially posted by Grimward

I'm quite sure the Dragon (maybe with the help of her brethren) could grant Earth Sight/Sense to someone else....they gave it to Sethvir in the first place, didn't they?

The earthsense was entrusted into Sethvir's care by the Paravians when the last left the continent.

 

[Grimward]

The earthsense was entrusted into Sethvir's care by the Paravians when the last left the continent.

Hmmm, you're absolutely right, I stand (or sit!) corrected, and that raises an even more interesting question. If the Paravians return, would they not re-assume their previous role? What did the Fellowship do (ie, how did they monitor and enforce the terms of the compact) before they relied on Sethvir for monitoring of the world? There were hundreds of years where Paravians existed on the continent alongside humans; did the Paravians report violations to the Fellowship? What need of that; we've seen that even the faintest lingering resonance disturbs humanity (at a minimum) and otherwise drives humans mad, into neglectful ecstacy, etc.? We've also seen that they are proof against anything humans might want to dish out.

 

[Clansman]

Man, I think I am going to join Dekket in my complete re-read. I did CotMW and FP last year, so they are pretty fresh in my mind, but everything else is a bit hazy. There are a lot more Davien episodes in the later books, so that is likely where the dragon clues lie.

In what book is the flashback to the F7 coming to Athera? I think it is SoM, but I am not sure.