Feast for Crows: what should be in it?

Well I just finished reading SoS. Great story, great writing, great characters. From what I've read of the comments, I haven't seen anyone say that Tyrion will return to Casterly Rock to find his first wife (Tysha or something?). After learning that the whole incident about reducing the poor girl to harlotry was coreographed by Tywin with Jaime's assistance, I figure Tyrion will return find her again...forget about Sansa, forget about Dany or Dorne. I don't know how that will go for him, but he'll end up linking with his Uncle Kevan for a Lannister civil war with Cersei.

I also figure Jaime will become one tragic figure. Sansa will turn into a schemer with Littlefinger help, Arya is being developed into a cold-hearted Killer, and with the Hound's return (he's not dead, and needs someone to protect), will join Jon.

I don't expect Dany will head for Westeros yet, first the civil war between and among the major houses, with some wights thrown in. (The title is a Feast of Crows afterall)....and God only knows about Bran and the wight on the Elk.:confused: :confused: !
 
Whatever happens Every single Frey in the world must die a horrible death that is a must.:mad:
 
cymric said:
Whatever happens Every single Frey in the world must die a horrible death that is a must.:mad:
Click to expand...

You took the words right out of my mouth.

About every 15-20 pages or so, the action should "cut-away" to Beric executing another Frey or two. Just have him work his way through the family tree until he "collects 'em all!!"
;) :D :p
 
Thank you Cymric and Slayer for your beautiful, hate filled words. It's always good to have an enemy in a story that you truly despise. GRRM has managed to put in an entire family of them. I wouldn't worry too much about the Freys. Once the Late Lord kicks the bucket, they'll be killing each other off.
 
no a death bed will be too good for that man... I want him to feel pain at the death of everyone of his scores of chldren and grandchildren.... A fate worse than that Gideon gave the Moabites when they broke guest right. Let it encroach on him slowly until he knows without a fact that nothing of his line remains breathing in this world.Guest right is sacred...it is the most sacred thing on man can offer another under his own roof... Old Lord Frey should die a slow heart wrenching death one that robs him of all the pride he thought Robb had insulted
 
Come on, they're not all bad. Weren't there some against the whole shebang kept away from the Red Wedding - Robb's former squire Olyvar comes to mind... But I'm for the gradual, painful eradication of the perpertrators otherwise. Perhaps as a last measure, have Lord Frey told as he goes to the gibbet that the Twins will be granted to his most hated enemies, the crannogmen, on his demise...
 
I still don't understand the hate the Freys are subject of from many fans. The Frey held their part of bargain, fighting for and dying for Rob, who they took as there King as part of their bargain. Rob says as much himself. Robb was the one who broke his word and oath to the Freys. He got what he deserved IMHO, what can one expect Frey to do when his house was so slighted and dishonored by Rob's stupidity? Who would have done differently? He thougth like a boy, or like his father, and not like a King.
 
Still, under the ancient laws of hospitality, once he had taken food & refuge within their walls, their life is supposed to sacrosanct. The Frey's dishonoured that and themselves by effectively slaying them under truce.
Oathbreakers will get little sympathy or respect in the feudal world. Their only possible shield/benefactor is now gone so I expect a sticky, messy end for the lot of them - and in true GRRM style, the 'good' frey's will probably die along with the bad - probably sooner in fact! :)
 
Still, under the ancient laws of hospitality, once he had taken food & refuge within their walls, their life is supposed to sacrosanct. The Frey's dishonoured that and themselves by effectively slaying them under truce.
Oathbreakers will get little sympathy or respect in the feudal world. Their only possible shield/benefactor is now gone so I expect a sticky, messy end for the lot of them - and in true GRRM style, the 'good' frey's will probably die along with the bad - probably sooner in fact!
Click to expand...
:)

I'm aware of this, however, this is a technicality IMHO . The Frey's dishonor was in retalitation to a much bigger slight in honor to there house by Rob. I am not debating if the Frey's are infeed highly morale or not, the simple fact however is Rob causesd this, dishonoring House Frey, and those that fought and spilled blood for him. He got what I would think he deserved.

This is not a question on how much I liked Rob, or how much I like or dislike House Frey, however it always beweilders me when people have so much hatred for House Frey when all they did was commit an act I myself would have done in the same given circumstance. Rob spit in the faces of thr Freys dishonoring himself, and his house, to ignore that because of "laws of hospitatlity" is just too conveinient. Rob broke his oath on a debt the House Frey already paid for him by going to war for him, and did so with honor, and in doing so commited the dumbest mistake and warring King in his situation make.
 
"What are you wearing for lunch?"
"I am wearing Bullete Proofe by Kevlar."
"I am just going to wear somethin simple like a full suit of chain mail."
"See you there."
"Don't be late, you know how touchy they are."
"No problem."
 
Im not sure why you are so bewildered Ain.
They are pretty much set up as a despicable group, albeit a few "arent so bad"
(but thats hardly a ringing endorsement is it? As a matter of fact dont they describe some of them as "not as bad as the rest"? Indicating that the rest are in fact substandard and its a surprise to people when one of them actually makes a respectable contribution to humankind).

They are cleary antagonists from a plot perspective. There's the whole "late lord Frey" business just for starters. They are even physically described as being homely and as a whole, "less than normal" or substandard when compared to normal stock. Even the two wards at Winterfell were immoral brats, not just coincidence, they are clearly meant to be hated.

Rob was their King and a young boy at heart. So he didnt take one of Lord Freys numerous homely daughters as a bride, hmmm whats the punishement for that? Total slaughter? He was well within his right to be angry, upset, demand financial restitution or another marriage arrangement etc etc..But to kill off your lord in the manner in which it was done? No.
Keep in mind it was an unreasonable request to begin with. Oh and there is a niggling little fact the HE WAS THEIR KING! Do you think the king needs to go ask for permission from all his lords everytime he decides who pays what taxes, who gets punished for their crimes etc?

There was no honor in what the Frey's did at all and it was in no way justified. They broke the laws of hospitality and are now cursed by the gods. I dont think there's a lot of wiggle room there. The Lannister's didnt even sink so low, and there is the difference. The Lannisters and the Greyjoy's are (for want of a better way to put it..) "cool" antagonists. The Freys are just lowlifes. (lowlives?) (and the Lannisters too look down on the Freys)

I guess there are different perspectives, but I kind of think its like arguing that Sauron should get our sympathy for reasons A, B & C, there's a lot of sophistry you can go through but at the end of the day I dont think you'll sway a lot of people.

BTW winter's sorrow you have had me laughing for 10 minutes or more. :)
 
I don't think anyone will argue that the Freys are likeable. The old guy is nearly impossible to like, as are many of his children, grandchildren, etc. However, one of the things I like about GRRM is that, much like real life, the "bad guys" aren't actually evil (with the exception of the odd psychopath like Gregor Clegane--and the Others, of course).

However, what else should Walder Frey have done? Should he have bent the knee to Robb? Robb was losing the war and refused to surrender, and Walder would most likely have lost his lordship, not to mention the various family members and others who would have been killed in the war. Should he have openly bent the knee to the Lannisters? As Tywin said, this would have led to thousands of deaths on the battlefield, as opposed to hundreds of deaths at the wedding. Frey probably saved a lot of lives with the Red Wedding.

Also, Robb was not the Freys' "true King". Stannis was.
 
#1 How was Stannis his true king?
#2 technically his true king was Aerys, whom he "kind of" betrayed
#3 his next "true king" was Joffrey, whom he betrayed
#4 he swore fealty to the King of the North, whom he betrayed.
#5 next is Tommen right? But more precisely its Tywin.

Generally speaking its not a good idea just to willy-nilly switch loyalties when things start to go bad for your side.
Ill grant you he did what he did for his own, but that doesnt mean I have to feel anything for him. I have no respect for anyone who doesnt stand up for their convictions or who are disloyal.

The notion of "what I do I do for my people" has been used by despots around the world through the ages to justify all manner of atrocities and genocide. Doesnt wash.
 
His true King was Aerys, but Aerys died. I suppose his "true King" is actually his true Queen, Daenarys. But when he bent the knee to Robert Baratheon, Robert became his King.

Now then, if Frey didn't know about the incest, then Joffrey would be his true King, and Tommen after him. However, Robert didn't leave trueborn children, making his eldest brother Stannis his King by law of the land.

When Walder bent the knee to Rob, it was part of a contract that included marriage into the family. Robb didn't keep his end of the bargain, and the contract was void. Frey's allegiance should then revert back to Robert's eldest brother Stannis.

And granted, the wedding was an atrocity. But isn't war also an atrocity? The commoners die while the rich play their game of thrones. I don't believe the Freys are guilty of wrongdoing by any means, but if Walder Frey allied with Robb, he would have been betraying his family and causing more death and destruction in the longrun.
 
Oops. I meant to say I don't believe they aren't guilty of wrongdoing. They have done much that is wrong. However, my main point is that there is no clearcut good and bad. Our sympathy is with the Starks, because we know they're trying to do the right thing. But from the perspective of the Freys, Robb Stark is not a good person. He was dishonest and unwise.
 
well argued, so lets agree to disagree about the Freys. (I do not think either one of us is changing our minds so lets not take up anyone else's time with it.)

Lets return to the subject of Stannis' claim to the throne however, as this touches upon many aspects of the story.
Robert would never had allowed Stannis to be his heir, brother or no brother. He didnt trust him with Storm's End, let alone the kingdom.
Now all you well-educated English types, what do you say about the laws of succession in such a case? Robert clearly would not have chosen his brother, he believed Joffrey to be his legitimate heir, there is still a younger son, Daenarys is still running around calling herself the queen.

Im not seeing Stannis getting the throne by any other means than conquest. He certainly will not be "awarded" the throne based upon his blood.
Perhaps this is a topic for its own thread???
 
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