George R. R. Martin v. Robert Jordan

[Boaz]

And I could not deal with it after the first. But not everyone likes the same style, concepts, and themes. Thank God.

 

[that old guy]

You'll also learn that females have exactly *one* emotional response to any stressful situation... ANGER. You'll find that the best way for females to display their ANGER is to smooth the skirt of their dress.

Not quite. One of the female characters seemed to spend a lot of time pulling on her braid.

But, to each their own. The way GRRM runs around bumping off main characters is almost as annoying as how Jordan's main characters seem to survive just about anything and everything (at least through Book 5, which is where I bailed on the WoT series.)

Hell, I personally have a deep loathing for all things Steve Erickson after reading that god-awful first book of the Malazan series. To my eyes it read like something Weis & Hickman would've been embarassed to put their name to, like a D&D session in novel format. Yet, others whose opinion I respect and generally concur with react like I've just put a weasel down their shorts when I make a comparison like this.

 

[TK-421]

Not another weasel down the shorts!!!!!!

It's no secret that I am fan of the Malazan series but GRRM still tops my list.

 

[Wiggum]

*throws weasel into thread*

 

[GOLLUM]

OK then, it seems like they are pretty uneven by the popular perception, but then what books are of the same caliber of ASoIaF? I have so far heard most often the Malazan Book of the Fallen. If you mention some, could you put some stuff on what the book is about? This thread was mostly just to see which books to read so it would help me/other people choose a lot more easily.

If you want to know about Malzan we have an entire subforum on Steven Erikson in this same authors section. I like Malazan more than ASOIF but they're both brilliant.

 

[TK-421]

Wigg...That's awesome, dude! I watched some 15 minutes of Pauly Shore in Encino Man not long ago. Goodness, that was just wrong in all respects.

 

[Boaz]

Weasel down the shorts? I'd rather weeze the ju-uice!

 

[soulsinging]

However, there is a compromise with ASoIaF. The series was originally designed as two trilogies separated by a five-year gap, but that was abandoned and the fourth volume (and elements of the fifth) was introduced to bridge that gap. However, although the gap is dead the first three books can still be read as a somewhat self-contained series. Book 3 ends with the characters 'plateaued' or left in interesting new situations but not on cliffhangers (as Book 4 ends). It is possible to read up to Book 3 and then go off and read something else. Whether you can do that or not is up to you: a lot of people find it impossible to resist moving straight onto Book 4, although it has a lot less closure than Book 3 (and I suspect Book 5 will have less still).

this is what worries me.

for the original poster's sake, i'll offer my thoughts as someone who hasn't read either series in completion.

WoT blew me away when i started. 'eye of the world' was exciting, mysterious, had tension, and got me hooked. there was a definite goal in mind... a showdown looming that provided ominous tension throughout. trying to fit the characters into ancient prophecies was fascinating.

however, people are right. around book 4-5, the series slipped. i couldn't finish book 6 and have never even tried to go back. it was a shame because prior to that, it was some of the best work i've ever read, fantasy or otherwise.

ASOIF... i just read the first book and was kind of underwhelmed. it wasn't bad, but i don't see what the fuss is about. at no point did it come close to the high points of wheel of time. there is no sense that any of the story will ever end. no showdowns in the making. no sense of any confrontation or resolution. it's like a long medieval soap opera. also, the alternating viewpoints can be frustrating, esp because some of the characters they center on are incredibly boring and do next to nothing the entire novel.

it was strangely addictive nonetheless, and part of me wants to continue on just to see what becomes of the characters i do like, but i can't skim books and the thought of reading through another chapter of dany riding a horse to nowhere to do nothing pains me.

the other worry is that martin says it's a 7-book series... now. i have read that jordan initially intended to make WoT a trilogy and you can somewhat sense that as things shift rapidly from book 3 to 4. it grew out of hand and he never finished. i have also heard that martin initially said ASOIF was supposed to be a trilogy or tetrology, then it was explanded to be 6 books. now i read 7 here. i fear i'll get sucked into yet another series with no end. and it'd be worse than jordan because at least jordan had his apoclayptic game-ender in mind. i don't think martin can ever put a lid on this series.

in short, WoT was wonderful... for a few books. then it tanked. it's up to you whether or not you can handle it. ASOIF, after one book, was a solid read, but as frustrating to me as it was enjoyable.

i'm moving on to read tad williams' MS&T before i return to martin. at least his series is finished.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

I never seemed to get to the cyclic history part of WoT that so intrigued me to begin with...

There is history, but it didn't seem cyclic or even very coherent. I managed to trudge through for the sake of my completism.

I totally agree with you that old guy! My thoughts on Erikson exactly.

I would like to see someone defend The Sword of Truth series and Goodkind. That would be amusing. I heard they're making a movie out of it.

 

[Charming Serpent]

WoT- Wasnt bad until mid-way thru the series with its bitchy women who for some unfathomable reason cant figure out that they arent the best, brightest, world is coming to end, that men DONT LIKE being told what to do or made to do and things against their will through like 12 books. Would have liked to see more flashbacks before the breaking. Rand being angry 24/7 is getting old. Did i mention how bossy/angry women is old btw??

SoT Series- Eh, it was all right when i was like 15 til book 3, but I couldnt defend it now that I am 27 and it aint that good overall after re-reading some of it.

My wildcard pic for a book would be Enders Game by Orson Scott Card. The book by itself, not the following series was well written and seemed to connect.

 

[Koopa]

Besides GRRM i like Hobb, Erikson and god forbid i can't help myself JKRowling.

K.J Parker, R. scott bakker and feist have their good moments. (So did Eddings first book of his first saga, the rest was to put it nice, not-quite-so-good.)

If Parker magic wasn't so strange, and some matters longwinded complex it would have been nice. i liked the Setup with the tougher than anything family. Scott Bakker, too had a bit too much philosophical mumbo jumbo in it, and i still don't understand how that dude managed to get away with it all, with his utter conviction sayings, well we still got that mage to leave an open ending, but i still dont like the fact that cnaiur had to die, that was such a splendid genius of a madman. feist is good at starting stories (magician th first book with talwin, but the story quickly deteriorates after that with many repeats, and just too big of editorial flaws.

 

[soulsinging]

But, to each their own. The way GRRM runs around bumping off main characters is almost as annoying as how Jordan's main characters seem to survive just about anything and everything (at least through Book 5, which is where I bailed on the WoT series.).

i could live with that, if not for the fact that the most interesting characters are the ones dying and the most incredibly lame and boring ones look ready to live forever.

 

[viZion]

i could live with that, if not for the fact that the most interesting characters are the ones dying and the most incredibly lame and boring ones look ready to live forever.

That's the second time you've mentioned boring characters. You must be talking about Bran. You must be. You're not alone in thinking that. I'm about to get flamed by about 800 people for saying this but it's just so true. Yes, he's the catalyst for the entire story. He's still whiny and boring and I could care less about his third eye and his frog friends are dreadfully tedious. Bran haters unite!

 

[HareBrain]

Didn't the "lame" give it away that he meant Bran?

Actually I'm interested to see what GRRM does with the whole shamanic/third eye thing, but I'm not holding my breath for anything mind-blowing.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Well I was being facetious when I asked for someone to defend the Sword of Truth...its so awful. Truly, one of the worst books I've ever read, and I've read some garbage.

 

[Wiggum]

Devil chicken!!!

 

[Charming Serpent]

I dont like Bran. I used to skim his chapters. His chapters are lame .... like his legs.

 

[TK-421]

Oh that was charming indeed, serpent.

I like Bran and he will play a major role of how this all ends. Especially for the North.

 

[soulsinging]

That's the second time you've mentioned boring characters. You must be talking about Bran. You must be. You're not alone in thinking that. I'm about to get flamed by about 800 people for saying this but it's just so true. Yes, he's the catalyst for the entire story. He's still whiny and boring and I could care less about his third eye and his frog friends are dreadfully tedious. Bran haters unite!

honestly, he's not the worst for me. he wasn't thrilling, but i could cope. my real problem is with sansa and daenarys (probably didn't spell that right).

dany's chapters reminded me of why i quit WoT. a bunch of people, wandering the desert, doing nothing, not moving any plot forward. i hear she spends the entire second book doing the same, without ever setting foot on the mainland. aragorn raised TWO armies in the time it took dany to do nothing in GoT, hehe. plus you've got a 13 year old girl sold into marriage and raped and suddenly for no apparent reason she loves and worships the guy? seriously?

sansa made me think of every awful victorian period piece i've ever seen on tv or in film. let's talk more about how wonderful it is to be wealthy and fabulous and wear nice dressed and have wonderful manners.

catelyn and ned were ok, tyrion was great, and jon was truly fascinating. but that's batting well under .500. there's a golden plot in jon facing a nameless menace from the north, but it looks like nothing will ever come of that because all attention is turned on court intrigue. even that i could live with. tyrion is a master schemer and his chapters were great. but instead of getting into the plots of littlefinger and viserys, we get to watch the starks bumble there through one absurdly stupid decision after another. if you want court intrigue, give us the intriguing court members.

i think i'm coming off pretty harsh. i didn't hate GoT, i think i was just disappointed. i was hoping for something that excited me and fired up my imagination and book one didn't do it. maybe my expectations were too high. i felt more frustration than joy while reading it. so i'm not trying to hate on the book, more so hoping someone can convince me these things will change and it's worth it to me to plow forward. but i recently bought the dragonbone chair and that's catching my eye a lot more than the 3 massive tomes of grrm on my shelf at the moment.

 

[Charming Serpent]

OK .....Soulsinger, let me try and give an angle u might not have seen.

GRRM is very very realistic with his characters and how things happen. Good doesnt always win, people are two-faced, spiteful, hardships etc etc etc ...

Now Dany has no money, no support and really no drive for anything because she was only a littel girl who deferred to her brother. In a GoT she is traveling with her husbands people and finding out who she really is outside of her brothers shadow. Discovering the way the world really is and so forth. That takes time. If it was another cliche series she would miraculously figure it all out and then strike the villains down in one swift blow.

Her drive IS going to Westeros though. It just takes time, monies, allies and well, lets face it she is half way across the world without either of those. I wouldnt go home where my family and supporters have been butchered unless I had help or a tank.

As to her marriage: In those times most marriages of high birth were for political reasons and had nothing to do with love or feelings, but duty and need. Her own marriage was for an army. Her brother was her elder and rightful king therefore she did her duty in accepting the marriage for the given reasons. She was NEVER raped. Granted, she didn't love Drogo yet for she didnt even know him, but back then a husband had "rights" to his wife that were expected. If u reread her chapter u'll see that she is just nervous, scared although I am sure somewhat curious it being her first time for sex. She never tells him to stop and he never takes her against her will.