Valyrian blood

[cercar]

And speaking of Valyrian blood, nobody ever talks about Edric Dayne Lord of Starfall squire to Beric Dondarrion. That kid is the last of the Blackfyre Targaryens and I would wager body parts on it. For a while I was running with a theory that he was the Rhaeger and Lyanna love child, but he's too young.

I've been through the series quite a few times and I don't remember anything about Blackfyre Targaryens or any significant mentioning of Edric Dayne

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I was under the impression Barristan the Bold killed the last of the Blackfyre pretenders?

 

[Boaz]

I forget who offed the Blackfyres, but it seems that with all of the mention of Robert's bastards that there could be more Targaryen bastards out there. Did Maester Aemon never go to Mole's Town or did he never father a ******* before he went to the Wall? I think Jon and Tyrion are both Targaryen bastards. And what is the deal with the Queen of Thorns... is she a Targaryen *******? She seems to hate the Lannisters with a passion. And one more crackpot theory, Sam is actually a Targaryen.

 

[Frey Slayer]

And what is the deal with the Queen of Thorns... is she a Targaryen *******? She seems to hate the Lannisters with a passion. And one more crackpot theory, Sam is actually a Targaryen.

My memory of the Lady Olenna Tyrell, aka the Queen of Thorns, was she thought it folly for her son to attempt so close an alliance with the Lannisters given their somewhat tumutuous history as residents of Kings Landing. The situation just further deteriorated with Cersei's attitude, the death of Joffrey etc.
My take on her was that she was exceedingly intelligent and even manipulative when it came to defending her family. Certainly a dynamic and interesting character.

I think everyone already knows and agrees that Hot Pie is the last remaining Targaryean *******

 

[Boaz]

I actually thought that Hot Pie's father was a pyromancer.

One question about Valyrian blood. Do all Valyrians have connections with Dragons?

Another question. Doom fell upon Valyria and magic went out in the west... did the Valyrians have a special connection to magic, a propensity to be magic users? And did Valyria fall because of the absence of magic or did the magic stop when Valyria fell?

 

[Culhwch]

And speaking of Valyrian blood, nobody ever talks about Edric Dayne Lord of Starfall squire to Beric Dondarrion. That kid is the last of the Blackfyre Targaryens and I would wager body parts on it.

I actually brought this point up on another thread, but god knows where now... He seemed to me to have Valyrian blood, but someone said that the Daynes definitely didn't have Valyrian blood, and on a reread I think I came across reference proving so. Maybe. Possibly. Might have to have another reread...

But yeah, supposedly all the Blackfyre pretenders are dead, killed in the rebellion or afterwards, the last, as mentioned, by Ser Barriston (mentioned in his bio in the White Book, ASoS). But there are probably dozens of Targaryen-descended folk running around the Seven Kingdoms - chief among them Edric Storm, who traces his lineage through Robert and the Baratheons, though as Robert pointed out, they had only the slimmest connections with the Targaryens...

 

[jnr_turtle]

Yes, I'm quite certain that the Daynes have some Targaryen blood although like you, I'm not sure where that information came from.

Looks like a reread for me too. *sigh* Too many books, so little time.

 

[Raven]

George has confirmed that the Daynes have no Targaryen blood. See the entry on the Daynes in the Citadel (scroll down a bit on the page to get to the Daynes).

 

[Culhwch]

Yes - there was confusion in my phrasing, I meant I found a passage proving they didn't have Valyrian blood. And I'm not just saying that now I know it's true, I swear. Honest. Really. Cross my heart.

 

[Niolani]

Interesting that the Daynes don't have Targaryen blood but that Ashara in the tale Meera tells Bran is described as having violet or purple eyes, which we haven't heard of in any other family except Targaryens. I am not disputing anything, just commenting.

 

[Adasunshine]

I know I may be completely off base here but I remember reading in AGoT that the only thing known about Jon's mother was that her eyes were violet - surely this would also point to Jon's mother being Ashara Dayne?

Of course, I think this was the gossip of Winterfell so it may just be that - idle gossip. I also remember Ned getting awfully testy when Catelyn probed him about it.

Just looked it up - yes it was gossip and to quote on the Catelyn thing..

'That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her.
"Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "he is my blood, and that is all you need to know."'

Then it goes on to say that "whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely..."

I was all for Jon being Ned's ******* and still hope that he is but with that comment, I'm now giving the Rhaegar & Lyanna thing a chance....

No chance there could have been a bit of Stark incest??? It seems to be rife everywhere else (btw, I don't actually believe this, just another theory to throw out there)

xx

 

[Boaz]

Again it seems that we are back to Howland Reed... a man about as far from having Valyrian blood as a person in the Seven Kingdoms could be, yet he holds the secret to Jon's parentage... I assume.

 

[RhaegarTarg]

Jon is desrcibed as have ice grey eyes. A perfect mixture of stark brown and targ purple. Hair color is never certain. one in 4 children of the same family end up with different hair (arya brown - sansa , rikkon, robb having auburn) so john could have easily come out R + L with brown hair. everything that is unclear falls into place once you see rhaegar and lyanna being his parents. The promise that Eddard had made her was protecting john (and the reason 3 kingsguard were there at the Tower of Joy was to protect Rhaegars other heir, instead of being at kings landing) and so Stark had to bring back Daynes sword to starfall, had Wylla milk the baby, got her in on the plan ( cuz theres no way Eddard was there for 9 months waiting for the baby to be born after he had his way ) and then fourteen years later theres Jon. Fourteen years old. and Eddard states in AGOT that " this promise he has carried for 14 years" it definatly wasnt bringing back lyannas bones. i am certain Jon is the Ice of stark and fire of Targ. the fire-blood red of his wolves eyes are the fire in the snow of his stark.his outcast wolf. just as he was an outcast. Eddards thoughts back in the blackcell went from Lyanna to Jon. not his children. but he wanted to talk one last time with Jon. He had asked for paper and ink so he could have sent the letter explaining it to the wall, the reason why so much attention was given to him by LC oF the NW. THIS is all just in my opinion ofcourse. there are tons of evidence ( the bloody bed she was in (fever does not give blood) but birthing does) and the blue roses (rheagar gave her a crown of blue roses at the tourny) and in the house of the undying the blue rose in the wall of ice. John snow on the NW. it all fits together. but... i may be wrong... we will see
- i have more evidence... but i do not wish to bore you - (oh and also it is believed that Lyanna was the Smiling knight and when Rhaegar was sent to find the smiling knight he found her and fell for her(Ned says Lyanna was good with weapons and an awesome rider, and she would have worn a sword too if their father had not phorbidden it). rhaegar is not one to fall for looks alone. so they fell in love (lyanna being headstrong ran off with rheagar) and then they consumated, rheager planted his seed, ran off to war while dayne and the others guarded young Lyanna) once again its IMO
*rhaegar*

 

[Tom O'Sevens]

Again it seems that we are back to Howland Reed... a man about as far from having Valyrian blood as a person in the Seven Kingdoms could be, yet he holds the secret to Jon's parentage... I assume.

Another avenue that holds possible secrets about Jon Snow's origin would be his namesake, Jon Arryn. Of course the Lord of the Vale died off the screne back in AGoT, however considering Lord Arryn was a father figure for Eddard Stark it is possible Ned might have confided in him concerning this issue. Especially if we consider Jon Snow was named as much for Jon Arryn as Robb Stark for Robert Barratheon.

It is not likely much Lord Arryn but there's the possiblity that Sansa/Alayne might overturn certain papers in the Eyrie...

 

[Boaz]

Welcome Tom!

From our own world to Westeros, it seems that naming a child after an important person is a way to honor that person and to try and shape the life of the newborn. Remember Cersei was horrified when the Stokeworths suggested naming Lollys' child after Tywin; naming the offspring of an imbecile and her peasant raper after the greatest lord of the realm would have justifiably offended the Lannisters. And Cersei was later incensed when Bronn named that child Tyrion; she took it as a slap in the face, because that's how it was meant.

So when Robb was named after Ned's best friend and brother in arms, I'm sure Robert was pleased. But how was Jon Arryn, the great lord of the ancient Andal family supposed to react when Ned named his ******* son after him? I think the Arryns (and the rest of the world) might have expected Ned to name a subsequent legitimate son after Jon Arryn. Was Jon Arryn insulted by this naming?... For Pete's sake, he just rebelled against his king and fought a war for Ned, and Ned repays him by naming a ******* after him...

Three thoughts come to mind as to why Jon Arryn might not have been angry. First, Jon knew Ned's character. He raised Ned and Robb as the sons he never had. He loved them, but he was not blind to their natures. He knew Ned was always prickly about his honor and about letting others have theirs as well. He knew Ned never indulged himself in passive aggressive behavior... if Ned had a problem, he dealt with it himself. So naming the child Jon was not intended as an insult.

Second, Jon knew the value of family to Ned. Ned seemed very close to his father (I assume his mother also, but she's never mentioned), Ned looked up to Brandon as his hero, Ned was extremely close to Lyanna, and Ned loved and protected Ben. Now for Ned to keep his ******* and to give it a special name... well, this meant that Ned was going beyond his legal and honorable obligations, ie. the child was extra special to him. Jon Arryn must have trusted that Ned had a good reason for naming the child after him and not naming it after the immediate family.

Third, Tom O'Sevens suggested this reason in the last post... Ned told Jon. When Robert won the rebellion and was crowned, Jon immediately became his Hand. Jon Arryn was in a position (if Jon Snow was Rhaegar's son and if Jon Arryn knew about it) to divert Robert from Jon Snow's parentage. I'd say after Lyanna's death there were only two people that Ned trusted implicitly... Jon Arryn and Howland Reed... he may have later come to trust Benjen completely, but that's another story.

Jon Arryn may have known the truth about Jon Snow, but then he might not have. Ned never told Catelyn.

 

[Kendack]

seems slightly hyprocritical to me however. Ned being such a staunch for honor, why would he tarnish his reputation to protect his sister's child. But, I can totally see why he would do it..

I love being rhetorical!!

 

[Dolorous Edd]

seems slightly hyprocritical to me however. Ned being such a staunch for honor, why would he tarnish his reputation to protect his sister's child. But, I can totally see why he would do it..

I love being rhetorical!!

Because her honour is more important to him then his own.....

 

[the smiling weirwood]

he demonstrated numerous times that he was willing to sacrifice honor for those he loved, he did rebel against his rightful king for Robert and Lyanna and he declared himself a traitor trying to save his family, which of course didn't work, but he did try.

 

[aemon]

arent we forgeting about the goaler in kings laning, he had royal blood.

 

[TK-421]

he demonstrated numerous times that he was willing to sacrifice honor for those he loved, he did rebel against his rightful king for Robert and Lyanna and he declared himself a traitor trying to save his family, which of course didn't work, but he did try.

Is this the same Ned we are talking about??? His honour was more important than anything to him. And it got him killed in the end. Funny how those with so much honour get eaten up by someone else's ordeal.