So i was wondering [possible spoilers]

[djinn706]

being new and i all i was wondering who jaquen was after to start with?

 

[The Imp]

Re: So i was wondering

being new and i all i was wondering who jaquen was after to start with?

"To start with" meaning when he first appeared in the series, in King's Landing, book 1?
added quotes

 

[djinn706]

Re: So i was wondering

yeah...when he was caged and on his way to the wall..who was he after and how the crap did he get caught?

 

[TK-421]

Re: So i was wondering

Could Jaqen been to one who Cersei hired to poison Robert Arryn? I don't believe she did it herself being too clumsy and inept.

 

[Wiggum]

Re: So i was wondering

I think "how the crap did he get caught" is more of what I've always thought.

It almost seems he let himself get fettered on purpose.

The man is too wiley to be put in shackles unaware.

 

[Lady of Winterfell]

Re: So i was wondering

I'm with Wiggum on this one. I think he wanted to get caught.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: So i was wondering

Could Jaqen been to one who Cersei hired to poison Robert Arryn? I don't believe she did it herself being too clumsy and inept.

Did Cersei make an attempt on Robert Arryn's life? I thought we found out who was really behind that...

 

[TK-421]

Re: So i was wondering

Why did he want to get caught? To make an escape from King's Landing? To get to Arya?

 

[djinn706]

Re: So i was wondering

i agree... highly unlikely he got caught off guard...But i do agree w/ lord of morning that he is the alchemist...well pate now

 

[Bazza]

Re: So i was wondering

But you know how Martin's world goes, even the seemingly all powerful master assassin can still make mistakes. I mean we do have an even more cunning Varys here in KL to fetter out threats. Perhaps Jaqen was up to no good trying to disrupt Varys's carefully crafted web of intrigue. He does hate magic with a passion...

 

[Raven]

Re: So i was wondering

Did Cersei make an attempt on Robert Arryn's life? I thought we found out who was really behind that...

Correct. Lysa poisoned Jon, and Pycelle finished him off in the erroneous belief that Cersei had done it.

As for how Jaqen got into the Black Cells - who knows? I've heard many suggestions, but none that work for me. In the end I think Bazza is right - he just ****** up.

 

[Culhwch]

Re: So i was wondering

I was stepping lightly to avoid spoilers, but I'm just going to whack a warning in the thread title, I think. Easier that way...

 

[The Imp]

Re: So i was wondering

But you know how Martin's world goes, even the seemingly all powerful master assassin can still make mistakes. I mean we do have an even more cunning Varys here in KL to fetter out threats. Perhaps Jaqen was up to no good trying to disrupt Varys's carefully crafted web of intrigue. He does hate magic with a passion...

If you want to subcribe to the theory that Jaqan scrwed up, how would you explain his remaining in captivity/ This is one of the best assassins in Westeros, somone who can change their appearance by passing his hand over his face. It's pretty hard for me to imagine that he was being held against his will, or that he was powerless to escape when he was being taken to The Wall.

 

[Wiggum]

Yeah, at least for me, the idea that Jaqen screwed up doesn't make a lot of sense.

I guess my question would be, was he sent, post haste, to meet Arya on his way to Old Town by the Faceless Men?

And if so, to what purpose?

 

[pan naranus]

I for one believe the theory that claims jaquen is syrio forel, a new persona he took after he was arrested by the lanister bannerman. or maybe the original persona, after he no longer needed syrio in order to move freely in the red keep.

 

[Wiggum]

Within that theory, there is a "why Arya?' question.

While even seperated from her wolf, she seems the most wargish outside of Bran.

The more I think about, the more it seems that the Faceless sent him to protect Arya, and there has to be a reason.

It couples with her blood lust over her list that she says at night, and I would assume a warg would be invaluable to the lists of the Faceless, she is naturally adept at sword play, and willing to take training without too much question.

Although, until I find out why the Faceless are at Old Town.....

 

[djinn706]

dang now im gonna have to go diggin...maybe there is a phrophecy or something i overlooked

 

[Bazza]

I personally like that Jaqen = Syrio, only because I love Syrio. But there can only be so many characters that get brought back to life. There are too many already! I don't think even with his ability that he could kill a fully armored knight with only a stick. He also just incapacitated / killed a bunch of Lannisters, I doubt they'd let him live after that. They killed and beheaded just about everyone else with the Starks, even the Septa.

If you want to subcribe to the theory that Jaqan scrwed up, how would you explain his remaining in captivity/ This is one of the best assassins in Westeros, someone who can change their appearance by passing his hand over his face. It's pretty hard for me to imagine that he was being held against his will, or that he was powerless to escape when he was being taken to The Wall.

I forget which books that it was referenced, but it was my understanding that the worst of the worst criminals (or the most dangerous) were kept far below the black cells on a designated level. Yoren had mentioned that the three in those cages were the most dangerous of all, hence the reason for the cages. Since there were only three prisoners down there, I can't imagine it would be that difficult to keep them imprisoned when taking the proper precautions. I believe there was a reference to Jaime going through the books when in the black cells, commenting on how there were too many guards for only 4 prisoners (after Eddard was down there) If he did escape, there were multiple locked doors one had to go through to get down there. This sounds like a pretty tough place to escape. However, I'm sure given the proper amount of time, he could escape. But we don't know how long he's been down there, I can't imagine too long, because murderers like those are probably sentenced to execution.

Also we don't know the extent of his ability of changing faces, he only exhibits it once (maybe twice with Pate), there could be a limit to how many times he can do it. A lot of magic in this world is meant to seem all powerful, but once you learn more about it, there are always consequences, i.e. Dondarion's loss of self when resurrected too many times, Davos discovering ways to circumvent Melisandre.

As to the trip to the wall, he wouldn't be able to break the manacles without help, so he'd have to change into someone else.
The group stays pretty close together during the trip. They're already very wary because of the looming presence of the war. He'd need some kind of diversion, he was probably just waiting for his chance.

 

[Raven]

I for one believe the theory that claims jaquen is syrio forel, a new persona he took after he was arrested by the lanister bannerman. or maybe the original persona, after he no longer needed syrio in order to move freely in the red keep.

For various reasons, this theory is pretty much impossible. To begin with, Syrio was almost certainly killed rather than arrested. But more tellingly, the timeline doesn't work. Yoren must have taken the prisoners (including Jaqen) out of the Black Cells before Syrio and Trant fight.

 

[viZion]

But more tellingly, the timeline doesn't work. Yoren must have taken the prisoners (including Jaqen) out of the Black Cells before Syrio and Trant fight.

Could you explain this a bit more for those of us who haven't picked up the books in awhile? Where's the evidence that the timelines don't pan out? In all of my years of reading GRRM forums I've never heard anyone mention that the timelines don't mesh. Doesn't mean that no one has brought it up but it certainly doesn't seem to be a popular rebuttal to the Jaqen = Syrio theory.

For the record, I don't think Syrio and Jaqen will turn out to be the same person. I agree that Syrio would most likely be killed rather than taken prisoner. If there was a window in that room then maybe he could escape but since I've never seen anyone mention that either I'll assume there wasn't a window in the room.