I like Talya 
Talya Belaque
- Thread starter Sapheron
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dreir
Flamer of Udun
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It's quite tanned already, thank you. Thanks to clothing-optional beaches.
PG: Thatcher Backside?
- Dreir -
I like it, but it reads more like a video game than a story.
"Tanya" is a video game character in Red Alert III who does pretty much the same thing as your "Talya". You're going to have to change the name to avoid copyright problems.
I can see some inaccuracies, or potential inaccuracies, in the way Talya dispatches the guards. Do some research if you're going to go into so much detail on every single kill.
Would Talya really strangle a man and then slash his throat? It seems rather redundant to do both.
And make sure you're right about Tanya using her thumb to block the windpipe. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me a thumb wouldn't do the trick.
You need to explain at some point how Talya can kill people so non-chalantly. Is she a sociopath? Is she a sadist? Is she a hardened professional? Or is she just a video game character who does not need to have any emotional connection to the reader?
Overall, very good. You have a lot of potential. But you might consider that exteme detail is not necessary for a good story. I do not need to know all the particulars of how Talya puts on her helmet, mask and gloves.
"Tanya" is a video game character in Red Alert III who does pretty much the same thing as your "Talya". You're going to have to change the name to avoid copyright problems.
I can see some inaccuracies, or potential inaccuracies, in the way Talya dispatches the guards. Do some research if you're going to go into so much detail on every single kill.
Would Talya really strangle a man and then slash his throat? It seems rather redundant to do both.
And make sure you're right about Tanya using her thumb to block the windpipe. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me a thumb wouldn't do the trick.
You need to explain at some point how Talya can kill people so non-chalantly. Is she a sociopath? Is she a sadist? Is she a hardened professional? Or is she just a video game character who does not need to have any emotional connection to the reader?
Overall, very good. You have a lot of potential. But you might consider that exteme detail is not necessary for a good story. I do not need to know all the particulars of how Talya puts on her helmet, mask and gloves.
Michael01
Coven of the Worm
I don't see how the name "Talya" violates anyone's copyright. In fact, the name "Tanya" is so common, there's no reason why anyone couldn't use it for a character in his or her story.
Are we here to critique stories or critique the critiques?
Michael01
Coven of the Worm
That's a good question, Blackrook!
Sorry, I just didn't want anyone to be confused by this.
Sorry, I just didn't want anyone to be confused by this.
Boneman
Well-Known Member
Welcome aboard Blackrook, good to have you here. Nah, we're just here to help each other with whatever suggestions spring to our (fevered) minds....... I like loads of different opinions about my work, often allows me to see the way through to a clear viewpoint. Plus, I ignore those I don't agree with, anyway!
Sapheron
Making no sense.
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- Nov 9, 2006
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- 850
To ease your fears Blackrook:
I know violence better than most things. You can definitely cut off breathing with a single thumb. Try bending your thumb. Then press the back of it into the base of the throat, almost as if you were trying to strangle someone. It's quite painful. It also completely stops you making any sound; the reason Talya did it while in the process of the slashing.
Her willingness to kill is caused by being both a sadist and a professional.
I also don't see why you seem to look down on video game characters as if they have no personality or emotions. I mean, sure, more novels have better developed and rounded characters, but (I won't say many) video games also achieve this. In the same way, a video game and a novel aren't neccessarily so different.
I know violence better than most things. You can definitely cut off breathing with a single thumb. Try bending your thumb. Then press the back of it into the base of the throat, almost as if you were trying to strangle someone. It's quite painful. It also completely stops you making any sound; the reason Talya did it while in the process of the slashing.
Her willingness to kill is caused by being both a sadist and a professional.
I also don't see why you seem to look down on video game characters as if they have no personality or emotions. I mean, sure, more novels have better developed and rounded characters, but (I won't say many) video games also achieve this. In the same way, a video game and a novel aren't neccessarily so different.
This is supposed to ease someone's fears? If someone said that to me I'd block myself in my cellar.
Michael01
Coven of the Worm
I'm still laughing.
"Reasonable knowledge?" And I'm still reasonably afraid ... oh, cr*p! Is ... is that Talya at my door?
"Reasonable knowledge?" And I'm still reasonably afraid ... oh, cr*p! Is ... is that Talya at my door?
Sapheron
Making no sense.
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- Nov 9, 2006
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- 850
Sorry, I didn't mean to seem that way. I perhaps got a little defensive over the computer games thing; I find it annoying that people still seem to consider it a lesser art form.
So you know, my writing is half serious sometimes. Really it's more of a hobby, but that's no reason to go easy on me anyway.
So you know, my writing is half serious sometimes. Really it's more of a hobby, but that's no reason to go easy on me anyway.
I have nothing against computer games. I play computer games myself. I would simply suggest that you will eventually have to let us know what's going on in Talya's head.
By the way, when I first read your story I did a google search and found a very comprehensive Special Forces manual on all the proper techiques of killing people. I couldn't find it the second time I looked, but its still on the internet somewhere.
I also found a Special Forces manual on counter-insurgency strategy. There is a clear warning by the U.S. government that the manual is secret and not to be published, but apparantly the warning was ignored by whoever uploaded it.
I have found in my writing that a good beginning to a writing project is thorough research of everything I intend to write about. In writing non-fiction this is absolutely necessary. In writing fiction, it can't hurt to be as accurate and thorough as possible.
By the way, when I first read your story I did a google search and found a very comprehensive Special Forces manual on all the proper techiques of killing people. I couldn't find it the second time I looked, but its still on the internet somewhere.
I also found a Special Forces manual on counter-insurgency strategy. There is a clear warning by the U.S. government that the manual is secret and not to be published, but apparantly the warning was ignored by whoever uploaded it.
I have found in my writing that a good beginning to a writing project is thorough research of everything I intend to write about. In writing non-fiction this is absolutely necessary. In writing fiction, it can't hurt to be as accurate and thorough as possible.
Boneman
Well-Known Member
By Blackrook
Or as inventive and far-reaching as possible.....?
Or as inventive and far-reaching as possible.....?
Sapheron
Making no sense.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
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Blackrook, allow me to politely disagree. Accuracy is a spice. Too much is as bad as too little; they both bugger the whole thing up.
That said, I can assure you, one hundred percent, that what Talya did to that poor guard was wholly possible.
Don't worry; Talya's head will be explored. However, I doubt that the middle of this action scene, her first appearance no less, is the best place to do it.
That said, I can assure you, one hundred percent, that what Talya did to that poor guard was wholly possible.
Don't worry; Talya's head will be explored. However, I doubt that the middle of this action scene, her first appearance no less, is the best place to do it.
Since you disagree with me that factual accuracy is important, I will explain myself more clearly. I am spending the time critiquing your work because I see in you potential to be a very good writer, and if you keep it up, you might get published. But your chances of getting published are not too good if you ignore good advice, which is what I'm giving you.
There is nothing "inventive" about factual inaccuracy and there is never "too much" factual accuracy. On the contrary, factual inaccuracy is absolutely essential if you're going to keep your readers from losing interest in your work.
Obviously, you may take liberties with certain things. You can have faster-than-light travel, time travel, teleportation, anti-grav belts, all of which are scientifically imposssible.
But you may not take liberties when you are dealing with real world things, like hand-to-hand combat, unless you explicitly state that a certain combat technique is a complete fantasy, i.e. the Spock nerve pinch, or the "palm of death" in Kill Bill that causes a heart attack after the victim takes three steps.
But Talya is engaged in real world hand-to-hand combat and you must assume that a certain percentage of your readers are trained in hand-to-hand combat and will catch you if you make a mistake. If that happens, your story loses all credibility and they may toss it on the floor.
There is nothing entertaining about catching writers in factual blunders. I will give you an example:
When I was in college I read a story written by a fellow student. I didn't get past the first page. The hero was walking through Jerusalem, and the writer mentioned that buildings had suffered damage from aerial bombings during World War II.
I was appalled at my friend's ignorance. I told my friend, "Jerusalem was never bombed during World War II!"
My friend looked at me with a blank expression, "Really?"
Then he shrugged his shoulders and said, "So?"
My friend's contempt for the facts gave me resolve never to read any more of his stories.
Contempt for the facts is really contempt for the readers. You are assuming they are too ignorant to catch you fudging the facts. When readers do catch you, they respond to your contempt with resentment.
You are free to ignore my advice. I am getting the impression that you will, since you have ignored my other advice. I am wondering why you post your stories to this forum. It's not going to do you any good if you don't listen to what people tell you.
There is nothing "inventive" about factual inaccuracy and there is never "too much" factual accuracy. On the contrary, factual inaccuracy is absolutely essential if you're going to keep your readers from losing interest in your work.
Obviously, you may take liberties with certain things. You can have faster-than-light travel, time travel, teleportation, anti-grav belts, all of which are scientifically imposssible.
But you may not take liberties when you are dealing with real world things, like hand-to-hand combat, unless you explicitly state that a certain combat technique is a complete fantasy, i.e. the Spock nerve pinch, or the "palm of death" in Kill Bill that causes a heart attack after the victim takes three steps.
But Talya is engaged in real world hand-to-hand combat and you must assume that a certain percentage of your readers are trained in hand-to-hand combat and will catch you if you make a mistake. If that happens, your story loses all credibility and they may toss it on the floor.
There is nothing entertaining about catching writers in factual blunders. I will give you an example:
When I was in college I read a story written by a fellow student. I didn't get past the first page. The hero was walking through Jerusalem, and the writer mentioned that buildings had suffered damage from aerial bombings during World War II.
I was appalled at my friend's ignorance. I told my friend, "Jerusalem was never bombed during World War II!"
My friend looked at me with a blank expression, "Really?"
Then he shrugged his shoulders and said, "So?"
My friend's contempt for the facts gave me resolve never to read any more of his stories.
Contempt for the facts is really contempt for the readers. You are assuming they are too ignorant to catch you fudging the facts. When readers do catch you, they respond to your contempt with resentment.
You are free to ignore my advice. I am getting the impression that you will, since you have ignored my other advice. I am wondering why you post your stories to this forum. It's not going to do you any good if you don't listen to what people tell you.
Michael01
Coven of the Worm
Blackrook, we take criticism that is offered constructively and in good faith all the time. You have good points, but it seems to me that you offer them out of context. Of course, if I write a story that requires historical accuracy, then I will need to research. That goes without saying.
The same idea applies to combat. I did some research myself about pressure points for a short story called "A Scout's Heart." But I don't think Sapheron's use of the thumb in the windpipe is inaccurate. I tried it, just like he said. I barely even touched the small area below my Adam's apple and I choked. When I applied more pressure, it became very painful.
None of us would post here if we didn't want critiques. We sometimes receive harsh criticisms we weren't expecting too, but we still consider what was offered in good faith.
The same idea applies to combat. I did some research myself about pressure points for a short story called "A Scout's Heart." But I don't think Sapheron's use of the thumb in the windpipe is inaccurate. I tried it, just like he said. I barely even touched the small area below my Adam's apple and I choked. When I applied more pressure, it became very painful.
None of us would post here if we didn't want critiques. We sometimes receive harsh criticisms we weren't expecting too, but we still consider what was offered in good faith.
dreir
Flamer of Udun
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
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- 215
I second everything Michael says about offering and accepting criticism. I have yet to see anywhere in this forum where people are rejecting critiques/criticism simply because they don't like it.
I believe the above is the offending statement that annoyed Blackrook, and Saph you might want to think about taking it back or at least qualifying it. Accuracy is always good, unless you intend the inaccuracy to be a story device.
That said, even factual accuracy is only about 85% accurate, simply because nobody can really say they know everything about something. For example, even if you're trained in hand-to-hand combat, that doesn't necessarily make a method that you've never tried or never been taught not work. If there is a SWAT team member out there (for example) who, when reading the story, insists that death by a thumb to the windpipe is not possible, simply because he's never done it before, that hardly means the other 95% of your readers would think the same. And don't even get me started on 'historical accounts' that have been fabricated for one reason or another.
- Dreir -
I believe the above is the offending statement that annoyed Blackrook, and Saph you might want to think about taking it back or at least qualifying it. Accuracy is always good, unless you intend the inaccuracy to be a story device.
That said, even factual accuracy is only about 85% accurate, simply because nobody can really say they know everything about something. For example, even if you're trained in hand-to-hand combat, that doesn't necessarily make a method that you've never tried or never been taught not work. If there is a SWAT team member out there (for example) who, when reading the story, insists that death by a thumb to the windpipe is not possible, simply because he's never done it before, that hardly means the other 95% of your readers would think the same. And don't even get me started on 'historical accounts' that have been fabricated for one reason or another.
- Dreir -
Boneman
Well-Known Member
Many, many, many years ago I used to watch wrestling on TV with Kent Walton commentating, and there was a guy named Jim Breaks, whose 'speciality' move was a thing called the sleeper - he would saw his arm back and forth across a guys neck, until the guy almost passed out, then try and pin him. Now at the time, it was done so well it was totally believable. It was only when I studied anatomy and physiology that I realised it was a complete nonsense. You only have to watch WWF now to be taken in by the playacting of those athletes - they are trying to kill each other aren't they?
Did you know that if you pour liquid nitrogen into a person's ear, the middle meningeal artery is frozen, and they die of blood starvation to the brain? No, neither did I, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
The point is, we're writing fiction, and yes there are a minority of people out there who might say 'that can't happen' but hell, if everything has to be accurate, there goes Harry Potter....... In this 'real-life' situation, it's believable what Talya does, and it it doesn't enter my mind to even question it, I'm enjoying the story. Actually, I couldn't care if it's inaccurate, I believe it....and that's the point. It's fiction. Made up. Doesn't have to be accurate, just believable. And it's close enough to the truth to be believable, isn't it? Hands up those who thought it was believable and didn't need to contact their local SAS representative to find out if it was?
There you go, you see.
Did you know that if you pour liquid nitrogen into a person's ear, the middle meningeal artery is frozen, and they die of blood starvation to the brain? No, neither did I, but it sounds good, doesn't it?
The point is, we're writing fiction, and yes there are a minority of people out there who might say 'that can't happen' but hell, if everything has to be accurate, there goes Harry Potter....... In this 'real-life' situation, it's believable what Talya does, and it it doesn't enter my mind to even question it, I'm enjoying the story. Actually, I couldn't care if it's inaccurate, I believe it....and that's the point. It's fiction. Made up. Doesn't have to be accurate, just believable. And it's close enough to the truth to be believable, isn't it? Hands up those who thought it was believable and didn't need to contact their local SAS representative to find out if it was?
There you go, you see.
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